From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Apr 4 04:38:13 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA02093 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 04:38:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA02088 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 04:38:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 12cOnV-0006EX-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 09:34:53 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 08:24:50 GMT From: elev14 Message-ID: Organization: Telenor Online Public Access References: <200003150501.AAA06305@smtp.fywss.com> Subject: [9fans] plan9 desktop Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu so whats so good whit pla9 desktops ? is it better then kde? will some veriosn(colone of it) ever get too the mainstram ? From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Apr 4 05:07:16 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA02588 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 05:07:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mailgate.Cadence.COM (mailgate.Cadence.COM [158.140.2.1]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA02583 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 05:07:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from symnt3.Cadence.COM (symnt3.Cadence.COM [194.32.101.100]) by mailgate.Cadence.COM (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA21962 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 02:07:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by symnt3.cadence.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:06:09 +0100 Message-ID: <1E485299309FD211A2100090271E27A401AF0736@symnt3.cadence.com> From: Nigel Roles To: "'9fans@cse.psu.edu'" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: RE: [9fans] plan9 desktop Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:06:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Received: By mailgate.Cadence.COM as CAA21962 at Tue Apr 4 02:07:08 2000 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu It doesn't have KDE. 'Nuff said. -----Original Message----- From: elev14 [mailto:torols2@online.no] Sent: 04 April 2000 09:25 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] plan9 desktop so whats so good whit pla9 desktops ? is it better then kde? will some veriosn(colone of it) ever get too the mainstram ? From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Apr 4 06:58:18 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA04097 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 06:58:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA04092 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 06:58:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id MAA01272 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 12:50:30 +0200 (SAST) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 12:50:29 +0200 From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] VNC client on plan-9 Message-ID: <20000404125029.A1260@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Russ Cox once claimed he had ported VNC client to Plan 9 without much difficulty, but with an 8-bit colour-map restriction, if memory serves. Russ, is it so easy I can do it without help, or would you be able to send me the details (I hope in my haste I have not overlooked the obvious, that the changes are already in-the-box)? Thanks. Lucio. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Apr 4 07:23:19 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA04596 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 07:23:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA04588 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 07:23:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 12cRKe-00046S-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 12:17:16 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 11:16:26 GMT From: lucio@proxima.alt.za (Lucio De Re) Message-ID: <20000404125029.A1260@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Organization: Plan 9 mailing list Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Subject: [9fans] VNC client on plan-9 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Russ Cox once claimed he had ported VNC client to Plan 9 without much difficulty, but with an 8-bit colour-map restriction, if memory serves. Russ, is it so easy I can do it without help, or would you be able to send me the details (I hope in my haste I have not overlooked the obvious, that the changes are already in-the-box)? Thanks. Lucio. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Apr 4 10:11:02 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA08584 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:11:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from highwire.stanford.edu (highwire.Stanford.EDU [171.64.249.40]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA08579 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:10:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aubrey.stanford.edu (jimr@aubrey.Stanford.EDU [171.64.31.58]) by highwire.stanford.edu (8.9.3/HIGHWIRE2.0) with ESMTP id HAA15609 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 07:10:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200004041410.HAA15609@highwire.stanford.edu> X-url: http://highwire.stanford.edu/~jimr/ X-face: "!ZH^<"U,NeU:732A To: "Plan 9 Mailing List" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] VMWare MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <19697.954857455.1@aubrey.stanford.edu> Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 07:10:55 -0700 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu I don't remember a VNC port, but I did see this post from David Bulkow about getting VNC to work with Plan 9. I don't know if he got the network working. ------- Forwarded Message Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 18:54:42 -0500 From: David Bulkow To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] plan9 on vmware I have finally managed to boot Plan9 in a VMware configuration. The problem I ran into was the IDE driver attempting to set "read ahead mode". After the command to set the feature, the IDE device status register indicates an error - the error register indicates Abort. Once the abort error is posted, the driver can no longer access the device and the boot fails. I did not attempt to fix the problem correctly, but instead took a short cut and commented out the call which sets read ahead mode. Performance appears acceptable. In boot/pc/hard.c comment out the call to hardsetbuf(). In 9/pc/devata.c comment out the call to atafeature(). My next goal is to get ethernet working so I can have the VMware machines participate in the rest of the Plan9 environment. dbul@earthlink.net ------- End of Forwarded Message From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Apr 4 10:22:58 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA09192 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:22:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA09185 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:22:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id QAA01611 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 16:15:11 +0200 (SAST) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 16:15:08 +0200 From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] VMWare Message-ID: <20000404161508.A1604@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200004041410.HAA15609@highwire.stanford.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <200004041410.HAA15609@highwire.stanford.edu>; from James A. Robinson on Tue, Apr 04, 2000 at 07:10:55AM -0700 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Tue, Apr 04, 2000 at 07:10:55AM -0700, James A. Robinson wrote: > > I don't remember a VNC port, but I did see this post from David Bulkow > about getting VNC to work with Plan 9. I don't know if he got the > network working. > I'm trying to reduce my environment to a single workstation with access to an unreasonable number of distinct platforms (NetBSD, Linux, Win'95, Win2K and Plan 9). I thought VNC would provide the neatest (if not the snazziest) solution. Another option may be to port Cytrix to Plan 9 and the Unix platforms, but that's hardly practical. VMWare is great if you're short of servers, you can run everything on one box, but then the performance suffers. I have lots of redundant (read old) equipment, but can only cope with one keyboard and screen at the time (the mouse already makes it more difficult :-). ++L From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Apr 4 11:24:43 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA11563 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 11:24:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA11555 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 11:24:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 12cV9n-0000jl-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 16:22:19 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 14:55:01 GMT From: jim.robinson@stanford.edu (James A. Robinson) Message-ID: <200004041410.HAA15609@highwire.stanford.edu> Organization: Plan 9 mailing list Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: jim.robinson@stanford.edu Subject: [9fans] VMWare Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu I don't remember a VNC port, but I did see this post from David Bulkow about getting VNC to work with Plan 9. I don't know if he got the network working. ------- Forwarded Message Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 18:54:42 -0500 From: David Bulkow To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] plan9 on vmware I have finally managed to boot Plan9 in a VMware configuration. The problem I ran into was the IDE driver attempting to set "read ahead mode". After the command to set the feature, the IDE device status register indicates an error - the error register indicates Abort. Once the abort error is posted, the driver can no longer access the device and the boot fails. I did not attempt to fix the problem correctly, but instead took a short cut and commented out the call which sets read ahead mode. Performance appears acceptable. In boot/pc/hard.c comment out the call to hardsetbuf(). In 9/pc/devata.c comment out the call to atafeature(). My next goal is to get ethernet working so I can have the VMware machines participate in the rest of the Plan9 environment. dbul@earthlink.net ------- End of Forwarded Message From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Apr 4 11:24:53 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA11585 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 11:24:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA11562 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 11:24:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 12cV9o-0000jr-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 16:22:20 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 14:56:20 GMT From: lucio@proxima.alt.za (Lucio De Re) Message-ID: <20000404161508.A1604@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Organization: Plan 9 mailing list Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <200004041410.HAA15609@highwire.stanford.edu> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Subject: Re: [9fans] VMWare Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Tue, Apr 04, 2000 at 07:10:55AM -0700, James A. Robinson wrote: > > I don't remember a VNC port, but I did see this post from David Bulkow > about getting VNC to work with Plan 9. I don't know if he got the > network working. > I'm trying to reduce my environment to a single workstation with access to an unreasonable number of distinct platforms (NetBSD, Linux, Win'95, Win2K and Plan 9). I thought VNC would provide the neatest (if not the snazziest) solution. Another option may be to port Cytrix to Plan 9 and the Unix platforms, but that's hardly practical. VMWare is great if you're short of servers, you can run everything on one box, but then the performance suffers. I have lots of redundant (read old) equipment, but can only cope with one keyboard and screen at the time (the mouse already makes it more difficult :-). ++L From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Apr 4 12:22:48 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA13974 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 12:22:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.89]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA13969 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 12:22:41 -0400 (EDT) From: miller@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk Received: from hamnavoe.demon.co.uk ([158.152.225.204]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12cW69-000AB6-0V for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 17:22:37 +0100 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 17:18:00 BST Subject: Re: [9fans] VNC client on plan-9 Message-Id: Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > Russ Cox once claimed he had ported VNC client to Plan 9 That was me. In fact I wrote a Plan 9 VNC viewer from scratch (685 lines of C) rather than trying to port the Unix/Xwindows one (3188 lines). It was quite straightforward to do the communication and display parts from the spec. My minimal interface could be made more useful by adding a way to pan across the screen if the viewer window is too small, and a way to emulate extra keyboard ops required by some host systems. -- Richard Miller From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Apr 5 21:31:23 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA02185 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 21:31:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA02179 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 21:31:18 -0400 (EDT) From: dhog@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200004060131.VAA02179@cse.psu.edu> Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 21:30:28 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] VMWare MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu lucio@proxima.alt.za (Lucio De Re) writes: > VMWare is great if you're short of servers, you can run everything on > one box, but then the performance suffers. I have lots of redundant > (read old) equipment, but can only cope with one keyboard and screen > at the time (the mouse already makes it more difficult :-). You might want to consider a hardware solution: there are a variety of switcher boxes available for connecting a VGA monitor, mouse and keyboard to multiple computers, such that you can switch between them. The cheaper ones contain no active electronics; I've used one of these, and it degraded the video signal somewhat, causing annoying artifacts on the screen. I've since switched to the Raritan SwitchMan, and I'm quite happy with it. Cost may be a concern, but remember, it's cheaper than getting more monitors (and less space-consuming). Disclaimer: I speak only for myself. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Apr 6 05:43:06 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA09462 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 05:43:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA09455 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 05:42:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id LAA05565 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 11:34:32 +0200 (SAST) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 11:34:31 +0200 From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] VMWare Message-ID: <20000406113431.B5527@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200004060131.VAA02179@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <200004060131.VAA02179@cse.psu.edu>; from dhog@plan9.bell-labs.com on Wed, Apr 05, 2000 at 09:30:28PM -0400 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Wed, Apr 05, 2000 at 09:30:28PM -0400, dhog@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > > You might want to consider a hardware solution: there are a variety > of switcher boxes available for connecting a VGA monitor, mouse and > keyboard to multiple computers, such that you can switch between them. > Distance and cable tangle are the "con"s in this scenario. > The cheaper ones contain no active electronics; I've used one of these, > and it degraded the video signal somewhat, causing annoying artifacts > on the screen. I've since switched to the Raritan SwitchMan, and I'm > quite happy with it. Cost may be a concern, but remember, it's cheaper > than getting more monitors (and less space-consuming). > I totally agree. I have a (literally) switch box, but it's a nightmare. VNC is not quite the answer, either, as it and X add up to a formidable resource famine :-) I also can't bring myself to look at the Plan 9 Xserver (I do have only ix86 boxes to deal with), because my skills and time availability make this impractical. I do have a few monitors (and lots of identical keyboard, because I'm sure their lifespan is limited). While on topic, it is seldom that mechanical switch boxes use break-before-make switching, and that has caused the odd monitor to blow, in my experience. ++L From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Apr 6 06:23:31 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA09956 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 06:23:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA09952 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 06:23:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 12d9Di-00029x-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 06 Apr 2000 11:09:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 10:04:22 GMT From: lucio@proxima.alt.za (Lucio De Re) Message-ID: <20000406113431.B5527@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Organization: Plan 9 mailing list Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <200004060131.VAA02179@cse.psu.edu> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Subject: Re: [9fans] VMWare Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Wed, Apr 05, 2000 at 09:30:28PM -0400, dhog@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > > You might want to consider a hardware solution: there are a variety > of switcher boxes available for connecting a VGA monitor, mouse and > keyboard to multiple computers, such that you can switch between them. > Distance and cable tangle are the "con"s in this scenario. > The cheaper ones contain no active electronics; I've used one of these, > and it degraded the video signal somewhat, causing annoying artifacts > on the screen. I've since switched to the Raritan SwitchMan, and I'm > quite happy with it. Cost may be a concern, but remember, it's cheaper > than getting more monitors (and less space-consuming). > I totally agree. I have a (literally) switch box, but it's a nightmare. VNC is not quite the answer, either, as it and X add up to a formidable resource famine :-) I also can't bring myself to look at the Plan 9 Xserver (I do have only ix86 boxes to deal with), because my skills and time availability make this impractical. I do have a few monitors (and lots of identical keyboard, because I'm sure their lifespan is limited). While on topic, it is seldom that mechanical switch boxes use break-before-make switching, and that has caused the odd monitor to blow, in my experience. ++L From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Apr 6 15:41:56 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA25507 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 15:41:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.92]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA25498 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 15:41:50 -0400 (EDT) From: miller@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk Received: from hamnavoe.demon.co.uk ([158.152.225.204]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12dI9S-0006rV-0Y for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 20:41:14 +0100 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 20:40:02 BST Subject: Re: [9fans] VMWare Message-Id: Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu lucio@proxima.alt.za (Lucio De Re) said: > VNC is not quite the answer, either, as it and X add up to a formidable > resource famine :-) Which resources are you concerned about? Plan 9 VNC viewer runs in about 84K of memory, and the Xvnc server is considerably smaller than an X server with a real screen. -- Richard Miller From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Apr 7 06:50:39 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA13246 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 06:50:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA13241 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 06:50:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id MAA07885 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 12:41:37 +0200 (SAST) Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 12:41:36 +0200 From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] VMWare Message-ID: <20000407124136.A7872@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from miller@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk on Thu, Apr 06, 2000 at 08:40:02PM +0100 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Thu, Apr 06, 2000 at 08:40:02PM +0100, miller@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk wrote: > > Which resources are you concerned about? Plan 9 VNC viewer runs in about > 84K of memory, and the Xvnc server is considerably smaller than an X server > with a real screen. > OK, stop teasing me :-) I'll be away for a few weeks, but on my return I'd love to try it out. Xvnc server is something I have only very superficially looked at. Can I have a copy of vncviewer for Plan 9, then? ++L From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Apr 7 07:30:27 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA13748 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 07:30:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA13744 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 07:30:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 12dWgU-0006aL-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 12:12:18 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 11:11:38 GMT From: lucio@proxima.alt.za (Lucio De Re) Message-ID: <20000407124136.A7872@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Organization: Plan 9 mailing list Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Subject: Re: [9fans] VMWare Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Thu, Apr 06, 2000 at 08:40:02PM +0100, miller@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk wrote: > > Which resources are you concerned about? Plan 9 VNC viewer runs in about > 84K of memory, and the Xvnc server is considerably smaller than an X server > with a real screen. > OK, stop teasing me :-) I'll be away for a few weeks, but on my return I'd love to try it out. Xvnc server is something I have only very superficially looked at. Can I have a copy of vncviewer for Plan 9, then? ++L From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Apr 7 10:08:23 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA17404 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 10:08:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.88]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA17400 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 10:08:18 -0400 (EDT) From: miller@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk Received: from hamnavoe.demon.co.uk ([158.152.225.204]) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12dZQn-000Brx-0U for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 15:08:17 +0100 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 14:55:30 BST Subject: Re: [9fans] VMWare Message-Id: Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Lucio De Re said: > Can I have a copy of vncviewer for Plan 9, then? Yes, I'll e-mail you the source. -- Richard From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Apr 7 10:12:05 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA17621 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 10:12:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from wanya.cc.titech.ac.jp (wanya.cc.titech.ac.jp [131.112.14.11]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA17604 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 10:11:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 31310 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2000 14:11:52 -0000 Received: from beat.cc.titech.ac.jp (131.112.4.22) by wanya.cc.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Apr 2000 14:11:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 29254 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2000 14:11:51 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO beat.cc.titech.ac.jp) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 7 Apr 2000 14:11:52 -0000 From: YAMANASHI Takeshi To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] VMWare In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 Apr 2000 14:55:30 -0000." Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 23:11:51 +0900 Message-ID: <29251.955116711@beat.cc.titech.ac.jp> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > Yes, I'll e-mail you the source. Ah, could you send me a copy, please ? -- uncover@beat.cc.titech.ac.jp From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Apr 7 10:24:42 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA18062 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 10:24:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from vitanuova.com (vita-nuova.demon.co.uk [158.152.205.94]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA18058 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 10:24:37 -0400 (EDT) From: forsyth@vitanuova.com Message-Id: <200004071424.KAA18058@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 15:30:24 BST Subject: Re: [9fans] VMWare Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu i can put it on my plan 9 software page if you like. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Apr 7 16:10:43 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA01088 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 16:10:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net (finch-post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA01084 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 16:10:38 -0400 (EDT) From: miller@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk Received: from hamnavoe.demon.co.uk ([158.152.225.204]) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12df54-000I7z-0C for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 20:10:15 +0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 21:05:53 BST Subject: Re: [9fans] VNC viewer [was VMWare] Message-Id: Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu forsyth@vitanuova.com said: > i can put it on my plan 9 software page if you like. Thanks, but for now I'd prefer to keep track of who has a copy. If enough people find it useful, I may make the improvements hinted at in an earlier message. -- Richard From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Apr 7 23:00:06 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA08407 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 23:00:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from web3204.mail.yahoo.com (web3204.mail.yahoo.com [204.71.202.201]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA08403 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 23:00:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <20000408025923.11401.qmail@web3204.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.247.215.233] by web3204.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 19:59:23 PDT Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 19:59:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Vladimir Prokopic Subject: Re: [9fans] VNC viewer [was VMWare] To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > Yes, I'll e-mail you the source. Could you send me a copy, please? ===== --------------------------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Apr 10 07:19:41 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA21474 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 07:19:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from titan.cs.york.ac.uk (Titan.cs.york.ac.uk [144.32.40.9]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA21470 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 07:19:37 -0400 (EDT) From: john@cs.york.ac.uk Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, john@cs.york.ac.uk Subject: [9fans] Samsung PDA? Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 11:58:06 +0100 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Might it be practical to turn the Samsung Linux PDA (as far as I know, not available for retail) into a Plan 9 terminal? http://www.sem.samsung.co.kr/eng/product/digital/pda/index.htm From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Apr 10 07:29:25 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA21721 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 07:29:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from vitanuova.com ([212.240.227.6]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA21717 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 07:29:20 -0400 (EDT) From: forsyth@vitanuova.com Message-Id: <200004101129.HAA21717@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 12:36:11 BST Subject: Re: [9fans] Samsung PDA? Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu it is possible in principle given the hardware described, and perhaps even possible in practice if they release the specs (or the linux port for it, although that's often harder to read than data sheets). the FAQ suggests they are not hostile to the idea of other systems running on it, which would make a change from some. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Apr 10 09:39:02 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA24715 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 09:39:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA24711 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 09:38:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 12eeKg-0006CF-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 14:34:26 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 13:33:59 GMT From: Roman Shaposhnick Message-ID: Organization: St.Petersburg University Subject: [9fans] truncate syscall Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Hi, does somebody know if there is a [f]truncate syscall in Plan 9? Or it it is not there, may be someone could suggest the similar functionality? Thanks, Roman. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Apr 10 11:49:04 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA29065 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 11:49:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from smtp2.fas.harvard.edu (root@smtp2.fas.harvard.edu [140.247.30.82]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA29056 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 11:48:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rcox-2.student.harvard.edu (rcox-2.student.harvard.edu [140.247.183.206]) by smtp2.fas.harvard.edu with SMTP id LAA28507; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 11:48:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200004101548.LAA28507@smtp2.fas.harvard.edu> From: "Russ Cox" Subject: Re: [9fans] truncate syscall Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 11:48:55 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu does somebody know if there is a [f]truncate syscall in Plan 9? Or it it is not there, may be someone could suggest the similar functionality? There is none, and there is no way to implement it, as 9P does not support such a thing. I suppose if you were really dying to have it, you could make wstat pay attention to the length, but that would be a departure from the 9P definition. Russ From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Apr 10 12:24:14 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA00424 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 12:24:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from [209.70.103.34] (mail.aethertech.com [209.70.103.34]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA00413 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 12:24:02 -0400 (EDT) From: gdb@dbsystems.com Message-Id: <200004101624.MAA00413@cse.psu.edu> Received: from clavin.aethertech.com by [209.70.103.34] via smtpd (for claven.cse.psu.edu [130.203.3.50]) with SMTP; 10 Apr 2000 16:23:57 UT Received: from OMMD-CRM-APP08 by clavin.aethertech.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1460.8) id 2JL1SK32; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 12:26:27 -0400 Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 12:23:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Re: [9fans] truncate syscall To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Yeah wstat, that is what I thought. Since I have already gone there perhaps I could add that too. Is there any interest in this functionality? >---- Original Message --- >From: "Russ Cox" >To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >Cc: >Subject: Re: [9fans] truncate syscall > > does somebody know if there is a [f]truncate syscall in Plan 9? Or it it is not > there, may be someone could suggest the similar functionality? >There is none, and there is no way to >implement it, as 9P does not support >such a thing. I suppose if you were >really dying to have it, you could make >wstat pay attention to the length, but >that would be a departure from the >9P definition. >Russ From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Apr 10 12:46:15 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA01471 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 12:46:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA01467 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 12:46:11 -0400 (EDT) From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200004101646.MAA01467@cse.psu.edu> Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 12:45:37 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: Re: [9fans] truncate syscall MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu just out of curiosity, what are the practical uses of truncation (other than to 0-length)? From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Apr 10 12:51:13 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA01762 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 12:51:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from bio.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA01755 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 12:51:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 21747 invoked by uid 991); 10 Apr 2000 16:51:08 -0000 Message-ID: <20000410165108.21745.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] truncate syscall In-Reply-To: Message from gdb@dbsystems.com of "Mon, 10 Apr 2000 12:23:44 EDT." <200004101624.MAA00413@cse.psu.edu> Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 12:51:07 -0400 From: Scott Schwartz Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu I don't know about ftruncate, but I sometimes miss fsync. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Apr 10 13:00:51 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA02291 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 13:00:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA02286 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 13:00:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from weyl.math.psu.edu (weyl.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.226]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08474 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 13:00:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (viro@localhost) by weyl.math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01636 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 13:00:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: weyl.math.psu.edu: viro owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 13:00:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Alexander Viro To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: Re: [9fans] truncate syscall In-Reply-To: <200004101646.MAA01467@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Mon, 10 Apr 2000 jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > just out of curiosity, what are the practical uses of truncation > (other than to 0-length)? mmap(). truncate() is a bad name - it's setsize(). IOW, it can extend files. Add the mmap() semantics in that respect and there you go - open()/ftruncate() to set the size/mmap() the region/start working; is quite common. Yes, you can kludge around it with lseek();write(); but that's a kludge, unless we accept that zero-length write() changes the file size. Which is not true under a lot of Unices (I seriously suspect that it's explicitly prohibited by POSIX or something like that). From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Apr 10 13:18:47 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA03327 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 13:18:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from pixar.pixar.com (pixar.pixar.com [138.72.10.20]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA03323 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 13:18:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from marvin.pixar.com (marvin.pixar.com [138.72.30.83]) by pixar.pixar.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22947 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 10:18:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from td@localhost) by marvin.pixar.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA257529 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 10:18:05 -0700 (PDT) From: "Tom Duff" Message-Id: <10004101018.ZM257989@marvin> Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 10:18:05 -0700 In-Reply-To: Alexander Viro "Re: Re: [9fans] truncate syscall" (Apr 10, 1:00pm) References: Reply-To: td@pixar.com X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] truncate syscall Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > mmap(). truncate() is a bad name - it's setsize(). IOW, it can extend > files. Add the mmap() semantics in that respect and there you go - > open()/ftruncate() to set the size/mmap() the region/start working; is > quite common. Yes, you can kludge around it with lseek();write(); but > that's a kludge, unless we accept that zero-length write() changes the > file size. Which is not true under a lot of Unices (I seriously suspect > that it's explicitly prohibited by POSIX or something like that). int f=create("file", OREAD, 0666); if(n){ seek(f, n-1, 0); write(f, "", 1); } What exactly is kludgy about this? I've been using UNIX & Plan 9 for 26 years, and not once have I wanted to chop the tail off a file. I find it really hard to believe that you need this so badly that you want to change 9p. Why can't you afford to rewrite the file? -- Tom Duff. This work was funded by The Corporation for Public Vaporware. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Apr 10 13:37:07 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA04065 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 13:37:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from pixar.pixar.com (pixar.pixar.com [138.72.10.20]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA04061 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 13:37:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from marvin.pixar.com (marvin.pixar.com [138.72.30.83]) by pixar.pixar.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23992; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 10:36:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from td@localhost) by marvin.pixar.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA257576; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 10:36:30 -0700 (PDT) From: "Tom Duff" Message-Id: <10004101036.ZM258593@marvin> Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 10:36:30 -0700 In-Reply-To: "Tom Duff" "Re: [9fans] truncate syscall" (Apr 10, 10:18am) References: <10004101018.ZM257989@marvin> Reply-To: td@pixar.com X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: td@pixar.com, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] truncate syscall Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Apr 10, 10:18am, Tom Duff wrote: > Subject: Re: [9fans] truncate syscall > > mmap(). truncate() is a bad name - it's setsize(). IOW, it can extend > > files. Add the mmap() semantics in that respect and there you go - > > open()/ftruncate() to set the size/mmap() the region/start working; is > > quite common. Yes, you can kludge around it with lseek();write(); but > > that's a kludge, unless we accept that zero-length write() changes the > > file size. Which is not true under a lot of Unices (I seriously suspect > > that it's explicitly prohibited by POSIX or something like that). > > int f=create("file", OREAD, 0666); > if(n){ > seek(f, n-1, 0); > write(f, "", 1); > } Also, Plan 9 doesn't have mmap, does it? Certainly it's missing from ape. -- Tom Duff. If it's in stock, we've got it. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Apr 10 13:41:42 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA04350 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 13:41:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA04342 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 13:41:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from weyl.math.psu.edu (weyl.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.226]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14551; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 13:41:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (viro@localhost) by weyl.math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01704; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 13:41:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: weyl.math.psu.edu: viro owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 13:41:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Alexander Viro To: td@pixar.com, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] truncate syscall In-Reply-To: <10004101018.ZM257989@marvin> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Mon, 10 Apr 2000, Tom Duff wrote: > > mmap(). truncate() is a bad name - it's setsize(). IOW, it can extend > > files. Add the mmap() semantics in that respect and there you go - > > open()/ftruncate() to set the size/mmap() the region/start working; is > > quite common. Yes, you can kludge around it with lseek();write(); but > > that's a kludge, unless we accept that zero-length write() changes the > > file size. Which is not true under a lot of Unices (I seriously suspect > > that it's explicitly prohibited by POSIX or something like that). > > int f=create("file", OREAD, 0666); > if(n){ > seek(f, n-1, 0); > write(f, "", 1); > } > > What exactly is kludgy about this? Almost noting (except that you may want to change the size of existing file and thus it turns into lseek(...,SEEK_END) and comparing the sizes). However, I suspect that I know the reason why this question appeared - implementation of 9p _client_. And ->setattr() or equivalents in many variants of VFS allow changing the size. So it boils down to graceful error value or finding a way to do it over 9p... > I've been using UNIX & Plan 9 for 26 years, > and not once have I wanted to chop the tail > off a file. I find it really hard to believe > that you need this so badly that you want to > change 9p. Why can't you afford to rewrite > the file? Usually OK for applications, but putting this kind of code into the kernel... Ewww... From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Apr 10 13:44:44 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA04589 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 13:44:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA04582 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 13:44:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 12ei8H-0003WX-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 18:37:53 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 17:36:53 GMT From: td@pixar.com (Tom Duff) Message-ID: <10004101018.ZM257989@marvin> Organization: Plan 9 mailing list Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: Reply-To: td@pixar.com Subject: Re: [9fans] truncate syscall Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > mmap(). truncate() is a bad name - it's setsize(). IOW, it can extend > files. Add the mmap() semantics in that respect and there you go - > open()/ftruncate() to set the size/mmap() the region/start working; is > quite common. Yes, you can kludge around it with lseek();write(); but > that's a kludge, unless we accept that zero-length write() changes the > file size. Which is not true under a lot of Unices (I seriously suspect > that it's explicitly prohibited by POSIX or something like that). int f=create("file", OREAD, 0666); if(n){ seek(f, n-1, 0); write(f, "", 1); } What exactly is kludgy about this? I've been using UNIX & Plan 9 for 26 years, and not once have I wanted to chop the tail off a file. I find it really hard to believe that you need this so badly that you want to change 9p. Why can't you afford to rewrite the file? -- Tom Duff. This work was funded by The Corporation for Public Vaporware. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Apr 10 13:59:19 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA05301 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 13:59:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from [209.70.103.34] (mail.aethertech.com [209.70.103.34]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA05292 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 13:59:12 -0400 (EDT) From: gdb@dbsystems.com Message-Id: <200004101759.NAA05292@cse.psu.edu> Received: from clavin.aethertech.com by [209.70.103.34] via smtpd (for claven.cse.psu.edu [130.203.3.50]) with SMTP; 10 Apr 2000 17:59:07 UT Received: from OMMD-CRM-APP04 by clavin.aethertech.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1460.8) id 2JL1SLB1; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 14:01:52 -0400 Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 13:59:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Re: [9fans] truncate syscall To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Instead of fsync I made each 9P message atomic using a log. >---- Original Message --- >From: Scott Schwartz >To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >Cc: >Subject: Re: [9fans] truncate syscall > >I don't know about ftruncate, but I sometimes miss fsync. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Apr 10 14:09:02 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA05770 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 14:09:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA05763 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 14:08:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 12eiVt-0003vj-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 19:02:17 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 18:01:08 GMT From: td@pixar.com (Tom Duff) Message-ID: <10004101036.ZM258593@marvin> Organization: Plan 9 mailing list Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: Reply-To: td@pixar.com Subject: Re: [9fans] truncate syscall Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Apr 10, 10:18am, Tom Duff wrote: > Subject: Re: [9fans] truncate syscall > > mmap(). truncate() is a bad name - it's setsize(). IOW, it can extend > > files. Add the mmap() semantics in that respect and there you go - > > open()/ftruncate() to set the size/mmap() the region/start working; is > > quite common. Yes, you can kludge around it with lseek();write(); but > > that's a kludge, unless we accept that zero-length write() changes the > > file size. Which is not true under a lot of Unices (I seriously suspect > > that it's explicitly prohibited by POSIX or something like that). > > int f=create("file", OREAD, 0666); > if(n){ > seek(f, n-1, 0); > write(f, "", 1); > } Also, Plan 9 doesn't have mmap, does it? Certainly it's missing from ape. -- Tom Duff. If it's in stock, we've got it. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Apr 11 03:12:50 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA25969 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 03:12:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from fw.softwell.se (root@fw.softwell.se [193.15.236.45]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA25964 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 03:12:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from trillian.softwell.se (IDENT:bengt@trillian.softwell.se [192.42.172.11]) by fw.softwell.se (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04425 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 09:12:43 +0200 Received: (from bengt@localhost) by trillian.softwell.se (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA24856 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 09:12:43 +0200 Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 09:12:43 +0200 From: Bengt Kleberg Message-Id: <200004110712.JAA24856@trillian.softwell.se> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: Re: [9fans] truncate syscall Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com > just out of curiosity, what are the practical uses of truncation I use truncation (in a comm library for miniml Posix systems, ie AS400 too) to make sure that a shared file (both sides have a file descriptor to it) only contains the new data. The other side reads the whole file and knows that is all. Best Wishes, Bengt =============================================================== Everything aforementioned should be regarded as totally private opinions, and nothing else. bengt@softwell.se ``His great strength is that he is uncompromising. It would make him physically ill to think of programming in C++.'' From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Apr 12 04:39:39 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA28051 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 04:39:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA28047 for <