From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Jul 1 00:21:20 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA28781 for 9fans-outgoing; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 00:21:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA28777 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 00:21:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 138Eav-0005t0-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 01 Jul 2000 05:09:29 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 03:58:06 GMT From: berry@ajubasolutions.com (Berry Kercheval) Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000630202924.00d076a0@mail1.ajubasolutions.com> Organization: Plan 9 mailing list Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed References: <962371275.515522@jet.ncc.icyb.kiev.ua> Subject: Re: [9fans] gtk port Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk At 01:35 PM 06/30/2000 +0000, Artem 'Thomas' Hlushko wrote: > > I'll consult the underlining philosophy of tcl/tk. Do you know any > > good documentation? >www.scriptics.com Actually, the developer's site is what you want, and the name has changed. Scriptics is now Ajuba Solutions. Try http://dev.ajubasolutions.com The Scriptics names will redirect to ajuba. (I work for but do not represent Ajuba) --berry -- Berry Kercheval :: Ajuba Solutions :: http://www.ajubasolutions.com Berry@ajubasolutions.com (Formerly Scriptics Corp.) From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Jul 1 06:04:21 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA01470 for 9fans-outgoing; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 06:04:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mail3.svr.pol.co.uk (mail3.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.19]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA01466 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 06:04:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from modem-116.chlorine.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.16.116] helo=localhost.localdomain) by mail3.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 138K7v-0005mb-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 01 Jul 2000 11:03:56 +0100 Received: (from rjb108@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.9.3/8.8.7) id KAA00868 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 10:21:18 +0100 Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 10:21:18 +0100 From: "R. J. Bradley" <druid@stonecircle.freeserve.co.uk> To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] kfs and unknown command plus dossrv Message-ID: <20000701102118.A857@localhost.localdomain> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <druid@stonecircle.freeserve.co.uk> <200006262026.QAA20352@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0us In-Reply-To: <200006262026.QAA20352@cse.psu.edu>; from jim.robinson@stanford.edu on Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 08:47:08PM +0000 X-BadReturnPath: rjb108@localhost.localdomain rewritten as druid@stonecircle.freeserve.co.uk using "From" header Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk On Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 08:47:08PM +0000, James A. Robinson wrote: > > Is kds realy this sensetive to not being halted properly ? > > If you wish to simply turn off a terminal, with no prep, set up a > file server. As with any OS that has active processes in the background, > if you want to turn if off you need to sync the fs. Having a seperate file > server means you don't need to worry when just shutting down the terminal. > > Jim Its not realy a case of wanting to do it, its more a case of accident and writing a new graphics driver (though Ive just about got the hang of typing disk/kfscmd halt without seeing what I'm typeing). However ext2 and (shudder) FAT disk recovery programs seem to manage to pick up the filesystem in most cases without serious problem. I was perplexed at finding unknown command strings scattered through files that had not even been written to and therefor I would have expected not to suffer from the loss of disk cache? Just interested as to how much information kfs holds. Robin From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Jul 1 06:14:54 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA01722 for 9fans-outgoing; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 06:14:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from camus.cybercable.fr (camus.cybercable.fr [212.198.0.200]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA01717 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 06:14:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 6201313 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2000 10:14:41 -0000 Received: from r198m3.cybercable.tm.fr (HELO noos.fr) ([195.132.198.3]) (envelope-sender <boyd@noos.fr>) by camus.cybercable.fr (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <druid@stonecircle.freeserve.co.uk>; 1 Jul 2000 10:14:41 -0000 Message-ID: <395DC4A4.1020804@noos.fr> Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 12:15:00 +0200 From: Boyd Roberts <boyd@noos.fr> Organization: Psycho Basket Case Outpatients Clinic User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; N; Win98; en-US; m14) Netscape6/6.0b1 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "R. J. Bradley" <druid@stonecircle.freeserve.co.uk> CC: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] kfs and unknown command plus dossrv References: <druid@stonecircle.freeserve.co.uk> <200006262026.QAA20352@cse.psu.edu> <20000701102118.A857@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk just write an rc function called halt that runs disk/kfscmd halt and get in the habit of using it. -- Boyd Roberts boyd@psycho-basket-case.org ``I come over here to kill them cocksuckers, not work for 'em'' -- Moon Dog, _Pettibone's Law_, John Keene From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Jul 1 06:36:29 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA01997 for 9fans-outgoing; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 06:36:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA01992; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 06:36:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id MAA02870; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 12:36:13 +0200 (SAST) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 12:36:12 +0200 From: Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] mail<->news gateway broken? Message-ID: <20000701123612.C709@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Mail-Followup-To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu>, owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Sure seems like it: I see what I would consider only a subset of the normal mailing list traffic. ++L From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Jul 1 06:51:33 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA02231 for 9fans-outgoing; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 06:51:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA02225 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 06:51:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 138KoH-0005hx-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 01 Jul 2000 11:47:41 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 10:25:13 GMT From: druid@stonecircle.freeserve.co.uk (R. J. Bradley) Message-ID: <20000701102118.A857@localhost.localdomain> Organization: Plan 9 mailing list Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <druid@stonecircle.freeserve.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] kfs and unknown command plus dossrv Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk On Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 08:47:08PM +0000, James A. Robinson wrote: > > Is kds realy this sensetive to not being halted properly ? > > If you wish to simply turn off a terminal, with no prep, set up a > file server. As with any OS that has active processes in the background, > if you want to turn if off you need to sync the fs. Having a seperate file > server means you don't need to worry when just shutting down the terminal. > > Jim Its not realy a case of wanting to do it, its more a case of accident and writing a new graphics driver (though Ive just about got the hang of typing disk/kfscmd halt without seeing what I'm typeing). However ext2 and (shudder) FAT disk recovery programs seem to manage to pick up the filesystem in most cases without serious problem. I was perplexed at finding unknown command strings scattered through files that had not even been written to and therefor I would have expected not to suffer from the loss of disk cache? Just interested as to how much information kfs holds. Robin From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Jul 1 06:51:40 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA02246 for 9fans-outgoing; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 06:51:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA02230 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 06:51:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 138KoI-0005i3-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 01 Jul 2000 11:47:42 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 10:36:05 GMT From: boyd@noos.fr (Boyd Roberts) Message-ID: <395DC4A4.1020804@noos.fr> Organization: Psycho Basket Case Outpatients Clinic Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <druid@stonecircle.freeserve.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] kfs and unknown command plus dossrv Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk just write an rc function called halt that runs disk/kfscmd halt and get in the habit of using it. -- Boyd Roberts boyd@psycho-basket-case.org ``I come over here to kill them cocksuckers, not work for 'em'' -- Moon Dog, _Pettibone's Law_, John Keene From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Jul 1 07:23:05 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA02768 for 9fans-outgoing; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 07:23:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA02762 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 07:22:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 138LJC-0005tC-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 01 Jul 2000 12:19:38 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 10:58:05 GMT From: lucio@proxima.alt.za (Lucio De Re) Message-ID: <20000701123612.C709@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Organization: Plan 9 mailing list Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Subject: [9fans] mail<->news gateway broken? Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Sure seems like it: I see what I would consider only a subset of the normal mailing list traffic. ++L From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Jul 1 11:44:51 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05211 for 9fans-outgoing; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 11:44:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aspen.cs.unr.edu (aspen.cs.unr.edu [134.197.40.251]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05207 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 11:44:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from banyan.cs.unr.edu (banyan.cs.unr.edu [134.197.40.54]) by aspen.cs.unr.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id IAA16074 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 08:44:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (beleos@localhost) by banyan.cs.unr.edu (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA23648 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 08:44:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: banyan.cs.unr.edu: beleos owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 08:44:45 -0700 (PDT) From: "Louis N. Beleos" <beleos@cs.unr.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Help with S3 video card needed In-Reply-To: <20000630225502.YVOH2023.mtiwmhc24.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.05.10007010751130.23618-100000@banyan.cs.unr.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk On Fri, 30 Jun 2000 sanfranmike@worldnet.att.net wrote: > Before adding my card to the vgadb on the boot diskette I > did get a ahell prompt but it was on a character based > screen not the gui. After adding my card to the vgadb > file I do not get a shell prompt. > It looks as though vga initialization is failing. The following is all that I could find in trying to associate a chipset with (0xC0044="S3 86CM65 Video BIOS"). The associated chipset appears to be the Aurora64V+, which basically is a Trio64V+ core, which in turn is an enhanced Trio64 (www.faqs.org/faqs/pc-hardware-faq/video/chipsets/). There are two vgadb controller entries for the trio64, one with linear and one without. If you have already tried these then I am out of ideas (and out of my league). Louis From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Jul 1 11:59:05 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05460 for 9fans-outgoing; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 11:59:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from einstein.ssz.com (ravage@einstein.ssz.com [204.96.2.99]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05456 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 11:59:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA23233; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 10:16:04 -0500 Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 10:16:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Choate <ravage@ssz.com> To: hangar18@einstein.ssz.com cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000701101537.18962Q-100000@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk ____________________________________________________________________ Life is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. W. Shakespeare The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 21:30:48 -0400 From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Compaq LTE 5250 laptop instant reboot If you can, comment out the 'monitor=' and 'mouseport=' lines in the plan9.ini file (put ' '#' at the beginning of the line) and boot, you should get a shell prompt. If that works, mail me the output of the command /bin/pci. --jim From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Jul 1 12:00:23 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA05636 for 9fans-outgoing; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 12:00:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from einstein.ssz.com (ravage@einstein.ssz.com [204.96.2.99]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA05605 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 12:00:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA23246; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 10:17:07 -0500 Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 10:17:07 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Choate <ravage@ssz.com> To: hangar18@einstein.ssz.com cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Publius (fwd) Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000701101610.18962R-100000@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk This looks like something that should be ported over to Plan 9. Has anyone looked at distributed data havens, mailinsg list server, or anonymous remailers under Plan 9? ____________________________________________________________________ Life is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. W. Shakespeare The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 08:41:35 -0700 From: Steve Schear <schear@lvcm.com> Reply-To: cypherpunks@ssz.com To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: CDR: Publius ONLINE AND UNIDENTIFIABLE? Issue: Internet Today researchers at AT&T Labs will reveal a new technology that can help Internet users evade censors. "It seems like more and more, technologies are being introduced that limit the freedom of individuals--especially in repressive administrations" around the world, said Aviel D. Rubin, who developed Publius with AT&T colleague Lorrie F. Cranor and graduate student Marc Waldman. "We are hoping that by providing some tools to help the individual, we can help offset this trend a little bit." Publius works by encrypting files--from text to pictures and music--and dividing them into smaller pieces to be distributed over a number of servers, making it hard to trace the original transaction. [SOURCE: Washington Post (E1), AUTHOR: John Schwartz] (http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21689-2000Jun29.html) Technical description and Publius home page: http://cs1.cs.nyu.edu/waldman/publius/ steve From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Jul 1 12:21:26 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA06177 for 9fans-outgoing; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 12:21:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA06173 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 12:21:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 138PtW-0001yq-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 01 Jul 2000 17:13:26 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 16:08:04 GMT From: beleos@cs.unr.edu (Louis N. Beleos) Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.05.10007010751130.23618-100000@banyan.cs.unr.edu> Organization: Plan 9 mailing list Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII References: <20000630225502.YVOH2023.mtiwmhc24.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] Help with S3 video card needed Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk On Fri, 30 Jun 2000 sanfranmike@worldnet.att.net wrote: > Before adding my card to the vgadb on the boot diskette I > did get a ahell prompt but it was on a character based > screen not the gui. After adding my card to the vgadb > file I do not get a shell prompt. > It looks as though vga initialization is failing. The following is all that I could find in trying to associate a chipset with (0xC0044="S3 86CM65 Video BIOS"). The associated chipset appears to be the Aurora64V+, which basically is a Trio64V+ core, which in turn is an enhanced Trio64 (www.faqs.org/faqs/pc-hardware-faq/video/chipsets/). There are two vgadb controller entries for the trio64, one with linear and one without. If you have already tried these then I am out of ideas (and out of my league). Louis From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Jul 1 12:36:26 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA06431 for 9fans-outgoing; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 12:36:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA06427 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 12:36:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 138QEe-0002A4-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 01 Jul 2000 17:35:16 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 16:28:06 GMT From: ravage@ssz.com (Jim Choate) Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000701101610.18962R-100000@einstein.ssz.com> Organization: Plan 9 mailing list Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Publius (fwd) Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk This looks like something that should be ported over to Plan 9. Has anyone looked at distributed data havens, mailinsg list server, or anonymous remailers under Plan 9? ____________________________________________________________________ Life is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. W. Shakespeare The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 08:41:35 -0700 From: Steve Schear <schear@lvcm.com> Reply-To: cypherpunks@ssz.com To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: CDR: Publius ONLINE AND UNIDENTIFIABLE? Issue: Internet Today researchers at AT&T Labs will reveal a new technology that can help Internet users evade censors. "It seems like more and more, technologies are being introduced that limit the freedom of individuals--especially in repressive administrations" around the world, said Aviel D. Rubin, who developed Publius with AT&T colleague Lorrie F. Cranor and graduate student Marc Waldman. "We are hoping that by providing some tools to help the individual, we can help offset this trend a little bit." Publius works by encrypting files--from text to pictures and music--and dividing them into smaller pieces to be distributed over a number of servers, making it hard to trace the original transaction. [SOURCE: Washington Post (E1), AUTHOR: John Schwartz] (http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21689-2000Jun29.html) Technical description and Publius home page: http://cs1.cs.nyu.edu/waldman/publius/ steve From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Jul 1 21:15:57 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA10495 for 9fans-outgoing; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 21:15:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA10490 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 21:15:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fuji.homenet (pool-207-205-219-88.pbgh.grid.net [207.205.219.88]) by smtp6.mindspring.com (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA12096 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 21:15:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fuji.homenet (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fuji.homenet (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA06014 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 21:15:44 -0400 Message-Id: <200007020115.VAA06014@fuji.homenet> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Fixing the Older Millennium-1 Cursor Reply-to: Stephen Wynne <stevemw@place.org> Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 21:15:42 -0400 From: Stephen Wynne <stevemw@mindspring.com> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk RAMDAC docs: http://www.ti.com/sc/docs/products/analog/tvp3025.html Where to get started: /src/9/pc/vgamga2164w.c What v3 does support: http://www.ti.com/sc/docs/products/analog/tvp3026.html From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Jul 1 22:09:55 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA11141 for 9fans-outgoing; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 22:09:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA11136 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 22:09:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 138Z4k-0007Tm-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 02 Jul 2000 03:01:38 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 01:36:07 GMT From: stevemw@mindspring.com (Stephen Wynne) Message-ID: <200007020115.VAA06014@fuji.homenet> Organization: Plan 9 mailing list Reply-To: Stephen Wynne <stevemw@place.org> Subject: [9fans] Fixing the Older Millennium-1 Cursor Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk RAMDAC docs: http://www.ti.com/sc/docs/products/analog/tvp3025.html Where to get started: /src/9/pc/vgamga2164w.c What v3 does support: http://www.ti.com/sc/docs/products/analog/tvp3026.html From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 2 00:13:51 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA12359 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 00:13:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from smtp2.san.rr.com (smtp2.san.rr.com [24.25.195.39]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA12355 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 00:13:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena ([24.30.140.97]) by smtp2.san.rr.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-0U10L2S100V35) with SMTP id com for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 21:12:00 -0700 Message-ID: <006c01bfe440$6baea230$618c1e18@san.rr.com> From: "Eric Dorman" <edorman@san.rr.com> To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] SMP works Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 09:13:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk 3rd Ed SMP works on an (ancient) TYAN S1668 dual PPRO-150 motherboard. kewl :) the dreaded IDE fileserver code works now too. will post a patch when it stabilizes a bit more. Also the 2114x support in the cpu/pc kernels handles the Netgear FA310tx and older Linksys EtherFast 100Base-Tx cards. The Netgear is a 21140-AF and the Linksys a 21140-AE. Neither card, however, seems to work with the FS 2114x driver (ouch). good stuff. Eric Dorman edorman@san.rr.com From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 2 01:00:44 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA12869 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 01:00:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from carbon.flatlan.net (carbon.flatlan.net [169.197.56.156]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA12864 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 01:00:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from darrell@localhost) by carbon.flatlan.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) id WAA22046; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 22:00:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from darrell) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 22:00:27 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200007020500.WAA22046@carbon.flatlan.net> From: Darrell <darrell@carbon.flatlan.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Still more newbie blather In-Reply-To: <394BB632.213208CB@yahoo.com> X-Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 User-Agent: tin/1.5.4-20000523 ("1959") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/3.4-RC (i386)) Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk In article <394BB632.213208CB@yahoo.com> you wrote: > > > Greetings, 9fans! > > Here's some more rambling about what I'm doing with plan 9. Feel free > to respond as you see fit. All suggestions welcome. > > I just got some more old hardware, this time a 100mhz dx4 486. It's > quite a bit better than the dx2 66 I was using. Unfortunately I don't > have a working system assembled at the moment. > > Some stuff that came with it: a pertec 120mb "floppy" tape drive; and a > 600+mb micropolis scsi II drive. The scsi host adapter is a DTC 3280as. > Is there any possibility that this junk is supported? I'm thinking slow > storage behind a file server; active storage<-scsi disk<-pertec tape. > Not exactly high performance stuff, but it's right here under my hands. > > I'm starting to get serious enough about this to think in terms of > better hardware; what direction should I be taking in terms of > fileserver storage? Obviously I'm not about to install a big CD jukebox > to backend the fileserver ;^) > > Thanks for listening to me ruminate- > I am a newbie myself, and could not get plan 9 booting on my 486. I have it on disk and when I try to floppy boot it, it shows "PBS... Plan 9 by Bell Labs", and then it reboot. it repeats the cycle, Do you have any advice to what I might do to get Plan 9 running? darrell From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 2 01:06:31 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA13056 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 01:06:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA13051 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 01:06:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 138bpR-0001SJ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 02 Jul 2000 05:58:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 04:38:03 GMT From: edorman@san.rr.com (Eric Dorman) Message-ID: <006c01bfe440$6baea230$618c1e18@san.rr.com> Organization: Plan 9 mailing list Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] SMP works Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk 3rd Ed SMP works on an (ancient) TYAN S1668 dual PPRO-150 motherboard. kewl :) the dreaded IDE fileserver code works now too. will post a patch when it stabilizes a bit more. Also the 2114x support in the cpu/pc kernels handles the Netgear FA310tx and older Linksys EtherFast 100Base-Tx cards. The Netgear is a 21140-AF and the Linksys a 21140-AE. Neither card, however, seems to work with the FS 2114x driver (ouch). good stuff. Eric Dorman edorman@san.rr.com From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 2 02:06:30 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA13619 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 02:06:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA13615 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 02:06:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 138cjj-0001rp-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 02 Jul 2000 06:56:11 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 05:26:05 GMT From: darrell@carbon.flatlan.net (Darrell) Message-ID: <200007020500.WAA22046@carbon.flatlan.net> Organization: Plan 9 mailing list References: <394BB632.213208CB@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Still more newbie blather Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk In article <394BB632.213208CB@yahoo.com> you wrote: > > > Greetings, 9fans! > > Here's some more rambling about what I'm doing with plan 9. Feel free > to respond as you see fit. All suggestions welcome. > > I just got some more old hardware, this time a 100mhz dx4 486. It's > quite a bit better than the dx2 66 I was using. Unfortunately I don't > have a working system assembled at the moment. > > Some stuff that came with it: a pertec 120mb "floppy" tape drive; and a > 600+mb micropolis scsi II drive. The scsi host adapter is a DTC 3280as. > Is there any possibility that this junk is supported? I'm thinking slow > storage behind a file server; active storage<-scsi disk<-pertec tape. > Not exactly high performance stuff, but it's right here under my hands. > > I'm starting to get serious enough about this to think in terms of > better hardware; what direction should I be taking in terms of > fileserver storage? Obviously I'm not about to install a big CD jukebox > to backend the fileserver ;^) > > Thanks for listening to me ruminate- > I am a newbie myself, and could not get plan 9 booting on my 486. I have it on disk and when I try to floppy boot it, it shows "PBS... Plan 9 by Bell Labs", and then it reboot. it repeats the cycle, Do you have any advice to what I might do to get Plan 9 running? darrell From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 2 03:14:46 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA14128 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 03:14:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA14118 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 03:14:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cotswold.demon.co.uk ([194.222.75.186] helo=blue) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 138dxe-000E0Q-0X for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 08:14:38 +0100 Message-ID: <004201bfe3f5$0de41f90$6f64a8c0@blue> From: "Nigel Roles" <ngr@9fs.org> To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <006c01bfe440$6baea230$618c1e18@san.rr.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] SMP works Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 08:13:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Neither will support FA310TX revision Ds, so in that sense you mean older Netgear FA310TXs. This is because of the switch to the LiteOn PNIC, which is similar, just not the same as a DEC Tulip. I do have a driver for the rev D, for the cpu (not yet fs), but it is a little untidy. To be honest I'm not sure why it works, but it does, reliably since my entire 1995 edition network ran on it. Anyone wants to try it, let me know. ----- Original Message ----- > Also the 2114x support in the cpu/pc kernels handles > the Netgear FA310tx and older Linksys EtherFast 100Base-Tx > cards. The Netgear is a 21140-AF and the Linksys a 21140-AE. > > Neither card, however, seems to work with the FS 2114x > driver (ouch). > From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 2 03:51:36 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA14504 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 03:51:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA14500 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 03:51:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 138eSw-0002c5-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 02 Jul 2000 08:46:58 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 07:45:07 GMT From: ngr@9fs.org (Nigel Roles) Message-ID: <004201bfe3f5$0de41f90$6f64a8c0@blue> Organization: Plan 9 mailing list Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <006c01bfe440$6baea230$618c1e18@san.rr.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] SMP works Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Neither will support FA310TX revision Ds, so in that sense you mean older Netgear FA310TXs. This is because of the switch to the LiteOn PNIC, which is similar, just not the same as a DEC Tulip. I do have a driver for the rev D, for the cpu (not yet fs), but it is a little untidy. To be honest I'm not sure why it works, but it does, reliably since my entire 1995 edition network ran on it. Anyone wants to try it, let me know. ----- Original Message ----- > Also the 2114x support in the cpu/pc kernels handles > the Netgear FA310tx and older Linksys EtherFast 100Base-Tx > cards. The Netgear is a 21140-AF and the Linksys a 21140-AE. > > Neither card, however, seems to work with the FS 2114x > driver (ouch). > From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 2 12:35:56 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA17982 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 12:35:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from gsyc.escet.urjc.es (root@gsyc.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.45]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA17978 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 12:35:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bizcoyo.dat.escet.urjc.es (root@bizcoyo.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.36]) by gsyc.escet.urjc.es (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA29654 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 18:35:45 +0200 From: Pedro de-las-Heras-Quiros <pheras@gsyc.escet.urjc.es> Received: (from pheras@localhost) by bizcoyo.dat.escet.urjc.es (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA27152; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 18:35:52 +0200 Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 18:35:52 +0200 Message-Id: <200007021635.SAA27152@bizcoyo.dat.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] The problems of the Plan 9 license, by Richard Stallman Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Hi, Linux Today has published today an article by Richard Stallman where he explains "the problems" of the license of Plan 9 3rd ed: http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2000-07-02-007-04-OP-LF-SW Best regards, -- Pedro de-las-Heras-Quiros | email: pheras@acm.org Grupo de Sistemas y Comunicaciones (GSyC) | tlf: (+34)-91-664-74-68 Dpto. Ciencias Experimentales e Ingenier} Universidad Rey Juan Carlos--ESCET. C/ Tulipan s/n.Mostoles E-28933 Spain From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 2 12:42:13 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA18159 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 12:42:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA18155 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 12:42:09 -0400 (EDT) From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200007021642.MAA18155@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] SMP works Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 12:41:52 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk >Neither card, however, seems to work with the FS 2114x >driver (ouch). Thanks for the feedback. This has been touched on before, there's a big disparity in driver coverage between the 'regular' and fileserver kernels, we don't run the fileserver on the same miscellany as the regular kernel. I hope to address this, along with SMP, ATA drives, etc. in the not too distant future. That said, it shouldn't be hard to the retrofit the detection code for the 2114x from the regular kernel into the fileserver, the drivers have very similar structure at that point. --jim From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 2 13:07:06 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18489 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 13:07:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18484 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 13:07:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 138n68-0004xn-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 02 Jul 2000 18:00:00 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 16:56:19 GMT From: pheras@gsyc.escet.urjc.es (Pedro de-las-Heras-Quiros) Message-ID: <200007021635.SAA27152@bizcoyo.dat.escet.urjc.es> Organization: Plan 9 mailing list Subject: [9fans] The problems of the Plan 9 license, by Richard Stallman Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Hi, Linux Today has published today an article by Richard Stallman where he explains "the problems" of the license of Plan 9 3rd ed: http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2000-07-02-007-04-OP-LF-SW Best regards, -- Pedro de-las-Heras-Quiros | email: pheras@acm.org Grupo de Sistemas y Comunicaciones (GSyC) | tlf: (+34)-91-664-74-68 Dpto. Ciencias Experimentales e Ingeniera Universidad Rey Juan Carlos--ESCET. C/ Tulipan s/n.Mostoles E-28933 Spain From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 2 13:10:21 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18637 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 13:10:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from einstein.ssz.com (ravage@einstein.ssz.com [204.96.2.99]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18633 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 13:10:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA27468 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 11:27:36 -0500 Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 11:27:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Choate <ravage@ssz.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The problems of the Plan 9 license, by Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: <200007021635.SAA27152@bizcoyo.dat.escet.urjc.es> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000702112708.18962U-100000@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk I'm all of a sudden getting echo's..... ____________________________________________________________________ Life is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. W. Shakespeare The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 2 13:21:47 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18877 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 13:21:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18873 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 13:21:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 138nMK-0005EC-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 02 Jul 2000 18:16:44 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 17:05:08 GMT From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-ID: <200007021642.MAA18155@cse.psu.edu> Organization: Plan 9 mailing list Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [9fans] SMP works Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk >Neither card, however, seems to work with the FS 2114x >driver (ouch). Thanks for the feedback. This has been touched on before, there's a big disparity in driver coverage between the 'regular' and fileserver kernels, we don't run the fileserver on the same miscellany as the regular kernel. I hope to address this, along with SMP, ATA drives, etc. in the not too distant future. That said, it shouldn't be hard to the retrofit the detection code for the 2114x from the regular kernel into the fileserver, the drivers have very similar structure at that point. --jim From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 2 13:40:05 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA19212 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 13:40:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA19207 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 13:39:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 138na4-0005MF-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 02 Jul 2000 18:30:56 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 17:28:06 GMT From: ravage@ssz.com (Jim Choate) Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000702112708.18962U-100000@einstein.ssz.com> Organization: Plan 9 mailing list Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII References: <200007021635.SAA27152@bizcoyo.dat.escet.urjc.es> Subject: Re: [9fans] The problems of the Plan 9 license, by Richard Stallman Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk I'm all of a sudden getting echo's..... ____________________________________________________________________ Life is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. W. Shakespeare The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 2 15:14:02 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA20182 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 15:14:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mail1.rdc2.ab.home.com (mail1.rdc2.ab.home.com [24.64.2.48]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA20176 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 15:13:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.usask.ca ([24.67.42.123]) by mail1.rdc2.ab.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <20000702191345.BEPA319.mail1.rdc2.ab.home.com@mail.usask.ca> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 12:13:45 -0700 Message-ID: <395F93E0.6DFC7CC2@mail.usask.ca> Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 13:11:28 -0600 From: andrey mirtchovski <aam396@mail.usask.ca> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] vgadb entry for PanaSync E70i 17" -- 1280x1024 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk note: I have commented out the default 1280x1024 entry my monitor type is 'multisync'. data taken mostly from xfree86's xvidtune include 1280x1024 # panasync e70i 17" @60Hz defaultclock=110 shb=1328 ehb=1520 ht=1712 vrs=1025 vre=1028 vt=1054 From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 2 15:34:43 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA20489 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 15:34:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mail1.rdc2.ab.home.com (mail1.rdc2.ab.home.com [24.64.2.48]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA20485 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 15:34:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.usask.ca ([24.67.42.123]) by mail1.rdc2.ab.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <20000702193432.BFFU319.mail1.rdc2.ab.home.com@mail.usask.ca> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 12:34:32 -0700 Message-ID: <395F98BF.63CA13F3@mail.usask.ca> Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 13:32:15 -0600 From: andrey mirtchovski <aam396@mail.usask.ca> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The problems of the Plan 9 license, by Richard Stallman References: <200007021635.SAA27152@bizcoyo.dat.escet.urjc.es> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk A day will come, when our children (or children's children, depending on age) will be arguing about the license covering the new toy we've just bought them, instead of playing with it... Pedro de-las-Heras-Quiros wrote: > Hi, > > Linux Today has published today an article by Richard Stallman where > he explains "the problems" of the license of Plan 9 3rd ed > From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 2 15:43:22 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA20706 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 15:43:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from smtp1.san.rr.com (mta@smtp1.san.rr.com [24.25.195.37]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA20702 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 15:43:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena ([24.30.140.97]) by smtp1.san.rr.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-0U10L2S100V35) with SMTP id com for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 12:42:15 -0700 Message-ID: <001501bfe4c2$1b9262f0$618c1e18@san.rr.com> From: "Eric Dorman" <edorman@san.rr.com> To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] oh my, S3 Trio64 Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 00:40:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Something looks like it's changed in the S3 handling from 7Jun to the latest build. Now aux/vga hangs when booting. The process table looks like vga Kproc (Running) and just sits there forever. Waiting for sync? This occurs on both a trueblue S3 Trio64 card and the S3 Trio64V2 in an old HP Vectra. Arg. The latter used to work enough to get a download. Eric Dorman edorman@san.rr.com From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 2 15:45:53 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA20859 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 15:45:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from smtp1.san.rr.com (mta@smtp1.san.rr.com [24.25.195.37]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA20855 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 15:45:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena ([24.30.140.97]) by smtp1.san.rr.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-0U10L2S100V35) with SMTP id com for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 12:45:57 -0700 Message-ID: <000801bfe4c2$a0062990$618c1e18@san.rr.com> From: "Eric Dorman" <edorman@san.rr.com> To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] oh my, S3 Trio64 Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 00:40:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Something looks like it's changed in the S3 handling from 7Jun to the latest build. Now aux/vga hangs when booting. The process table looks like vga Kproc (Running) and just sits there forever. Waiting for sync? This occurs on both a trueblue S3 Trio64 card and the S3 Trio64V2 in an old HP Vectra. Arg. The latter used to work enough to get a download. Eric Dorman edorman@san.rr.com From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 2 15:56:23 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA21102 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 15:56:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA21098 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 15:56:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 138pbB-0006Sn-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 02 Jul 2000 20:40:13 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 19:36:10 GMT From: aam396@mail.usask.ca (andrey mirtchovski) Message-ID: <395F93E0.6DFC7CC2@mail.usask.ca> Organization: Plan 9 mailing list Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] vgadb entry for PanaSync E70i 17" -- 1280x1024 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk note: I have commented out the default 1280x1024 entry my monitor type is 'multisync'. data taken mostly from xfree86's xvidtune include 1280x1024 # panasync e70i 17" @60Hz defaultclock=110 shb=1328 ehb=1520 ht=1712 vrs=1025 vre=1028 vt=1054 From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 2 16:21:48 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA21451 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 16:21:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA21441 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 16:21:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 138q47-0006jM-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 02 Jul 2000 21:10:07 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 20:08:08 GMT From: edorman@san.rr.com (Eric Dorman) Message-ID: <000801bfe4c2$a0062990$618c1e18@san.rr.com> Organization: Plan 9 mailing list Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] oh my, S3 Trio64 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Something looks like it's changed in the S3 handling from 7Jun to the latest build. Now aux/vga hangs when booting. The process table looks like vga Kproc (Running) and just sits there forever. Waiting for sync? This occurs on both a trueblue S3 Trio64 card and the S3 Trio64V2 in an old HP Vectra. Arg. The latter used to work enough to get a download. Eric Dorman edorman@san.rr.com From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 2 16:21:54 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA21463 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 16:21:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA21446 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 16:21:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 138q46-0006jG-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 02 Jul 2000 21:10:06 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 20:08:05 GMT From: edorman@san.rr.com (Eric Dorman) Message-ID: <001501bfe4c2$1b9262f0$618c1e18@san.rr.com> Organization: Plan 9 mailing list Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] oh my, S3 Trio64 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Something looks like it's changed in the S3 handling from 7Jun to the latest build. Now aux/vga hangs when booting. The process table looks like vga Kproc (Running) and just sits there forever. Waiting for sync? This occurs on both a trueblue S3 Trio64 card and the S3 Trio64V2 in an old HP Vectra. Arg. The latter used to work enough to get a download. Eric Dorman edorman@san.rr.com From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 2 16:21:57 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA21475 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 16:21:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA21452 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 16:21:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 138q45-0006j9-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 02 Jul 2000 21:10:05 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 19:56:13 GMT From: aam396@mail.usask.ca (andrey mirtchovski) Message-ID: <395F98BF.63CA13F3@mail.usask.ca> Organization: Plan 9 mailing list Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200007021635.SAA27152@bizcoyo.dat.escet.urjc.es> Subject: Re: [9fans] The problems of the Plan 9 license, by Richard Stallman Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk A day will come, when our children (or children's children, depending on age) will be arguing about the license covering the new toy we've just bought them, instead of playing with it... Pedro de-las-Heras-Quiros wrote: > Hi, > > Linux Today has published today an article by Richard Stallman where > he explains "the problems" of the license of Plan 9 3rd ed > From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 2 19:36:45 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA23397 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 19:36:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from get.freewire.net (get.freewire.net [195.184.229.250]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA23393 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 19:36:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from noos.fr (d231-107.dial.mistral.co.uk [195.184.231.107]) by get.freewire.net (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA01979 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 00:24:54 +0100 Message-ID: <395FD216.D91B95E9@noos.fr> Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 00:36:54 +0100 From: Boyd Roberts <boyd@noos.fr> Organization: Psycho Basket Case Ouypatients Clinic X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.10 i686) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The problems of the Plan 9 license, by Richard Stallman References: <200007021635.SAA27152@bizcoyo.dat.escet.urjc.es> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Pedro de-las-Heras-Quiros wrote: > > Hi, > > Linux Today has published today an article by Richard Stallman where > he explains "the problems" of the license of Plan 9 3rd ed: > > http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2000-07-02-007-04-OP-LF-SW > stallman should a) take a bath, b) get a grip and c) stop writing bullshit that he thinks is code. -- But I doubt if our present system [U.S. Army] will produce such an individual. They are too: _abrasive_, opinionated, undiplomatic, nonconformist, and effective. -- Colonel David H. Hackworth (U.S. Army, Ret.) From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 2 20:21:44 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA23820 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 20:21:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA23816 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 20:21:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 138tni-0000wC-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 03 Jul 2000 01:09:26 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 23:55:09 GMT From: boyd@noos.fr (Boyd Roberts) Message-ID: <395FD216.D91B95E9@noos.fr> Organization: Psycho Basket Case Ouypatients Clinic Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200007021635.SAA27152@bizcoyo.dat.escet.urjc.es> Subject: Re: [9fans] The problems of the Plan 9 license, by Richard Stallman Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Pedro de-las-Heras-Quiros wrote: > > Hi, > > Linux Today has published today an article by Richard Stallman where > he explains "the problems" of the license of Plan 9 3rd ed: > > http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2000-07-02-007-04-OP-LF-SW > stallman should a) take a bath, b) get a grip and c) stop writing bullshit that he thinks is code. -- But I doubt if our present system [U.S. Army] will produce such an individual. They are too: _abrasive_, opinionated, undiplomatic, nonconformist, and effective. -- Colonel David H. Hackworth (U.S. Army, Ret.) From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 2 20:56:29 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA24306 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 20:56:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA24302 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 20:56:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from weyl.math.psu.edu (weyl.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.226]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03605; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 20:56:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (viro@localhost) by weyl.math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18440; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 20:56:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: weyl.math.psu.edu: viro owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 20:56:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Alexander Viro <viro@math.psu.edu> To: Boyd Roberts <boyd@noos.fr> cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The problems of the Plan 9 license, by Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: <395FD216.D91B95E9@noos.fr> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.10007022022560.14052-100000@weyl.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk On Sun, 2 Jul 2000, Boyd Roberts wrote: > Pedro de-las-Heras-Quiros wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Linux Today has published today an article by Richard Stallman where > > he explains "the problems" of the license of Plan 9 3rd ed: > > > > http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2000-07-02-007-04-OP-LF-SW > > > > stallman should a) take a bath, b) get a grip and c) stop writing > bullshit that he thinks is code. You mean he actually writes something these days? AFAICS he went 100% PHB... He has one point, though - part regarding the intellectual property actions, nice as it is, is abusable. And that has nothing to GPL, indeed - sufficiently malicious and smart asshole can use that clause to cause a lot of grief to any contributor. Doesn't have to be very smart, actually - AFAICS "contribution" != "contribution accepted into the official tree", so quality of code is not an issue and recipe is out there... s/any/& Plan 9-related/ would be one of the ways to close that hole, but anyway, hole is actually there. (For those who didn't bother to read the text in question, scenario basically boils down to the following: $EVIL_ASSHOLE becomes a contributor, picks a $VICTIM_CONTRIBUTOR and starts doing nasty things to any code written by $VICTIM_CONTRIBUTOR, quite possibly under different license, containing trade secrets, whatever. Oops...) From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 2 21:24:16 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA24721 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 21:24:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ece.rutgers.edu (ece.rutgers.edu [128.6.46.12]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA24717 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 21:24:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 27957 invoked by uid 31849); 3 Jul 2000 01:24:03 -0000 Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 21:24:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Phillip Stanley-Marbell <narteh@ece.rutgers.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Plan 9, NOT 'Plan Nine' was Re: [9fans] The problems of... Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10007022107410.27840-100000@ece.rutgers.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Well, come on. The article had nothing to do with Plan 9 ;) It seems Mr Stallman was talking about _another_ OS called "Plan Nine". He also thinks that this "Plan Nine" is distributed by AT&T ;(?* - pip From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 2 21:36:47 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA24957 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 21:36:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA24953 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 21:36:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 138v0D-0001Yh-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 03 Jul 2000 02:26:25 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 01:26:07 GMT From: viro@math.psu.edu (Alexander Viro) Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.10007022022560.14052-100000@weyl.math.psu.edu> Organization: Plan 9 mailing list Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII References: <395FD216.D91B95E9@noos.fr> Subject: Re: [9fans] The problems of the Plan 9 license, by Richard Stallman Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk On Sun, 2 Jul 2000, Boyd Roberts wrote: > Pedro de-las-Heras-Quiros wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Linux Today has published today an article by Richard Stallman where > > he explains "the problems" of the license of Plan 9 3rd ed: > > > > http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2000-07-02-007-04-OP-LF-SW > > > > stallman should a) take a bath, b) get a grip and c) stop writing > bullshit that he thinks is code. You mean he actually writes something these days? AFAICS he went 100% PHB... He has one point, though - part regarding the intellectual property actions, nice as it is, is abusable. And that has nothing to GPL, indeed - sufficiently malicious and smart asshole can use that clause to cause a lot of grief to any contributor. Doesn't have to be very smart, actually - AFAICS "contribution" != "contribution accepted into the official tree", so quality of code is not an issue and recipe is out there... s/any/& Plan 9-related/ would be one of the ways to close that hole, but anyway, hole is actually there. (For those who didn't bother to read the text in question, scenario basically boils down to the following: $EVIL_ASSHOLE becomes a contributor, picks a $VICTIM_CONTRIBUTOR and starts doing nasty things to any code written by $VICTIM_CONTRIBUTOR, quite possibly under different license, containing trade secrets, whatever. Oops...) From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 2 22:06:44 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA25582 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 22:06:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA25578 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 22:06:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 138vUL-0001oy-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 03 Jul 2000 02:57:33 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 01:46:41 GMT From: narteh@ece.rutgers.edu (Phillip Stanley-Marbell) Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10007022107410.27840-100000@ece.rutgers.edu> Organization: Plan 9 mailing list Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Plan 9, NOT 'Plan Nine' was Re: [9fans] The problems of... Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Well, come on. The article had nothing to do with Plan 9 ;) It seems Mr Stallman was talking about _another_ OS called "Plan Nine". He also thinks that this "Plan Nine" is distributed by AT&T ;(?* - pip From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 2 23:13:59 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA26327 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 23:13:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ohio.river.org (river.org [209.24.233.15]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA26323 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 23:13:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from ru@localhost) by ohio.river.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA22654; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 20:13:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 20:13:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200007030313.UAA22654@ohio.river.org> From: narteh@ece.rutgers.edu (Phillip Stanley-Marbell) Subject: Plan 9, NOT 'Plan Nine' was Re: [9fans] The problems of... To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Well, come on. The article had nothing to do with Plan 9 ;) It seems Mr Stallman was talking about _another_ OS called "Plan Nine". He also thinks that this "Plan Nine" is distributed by AT&T ;(?* - pip From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 2 23:52:22 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA26961 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 23:52:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA26957 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 23:52:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 138xFR-0002kq-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 03 Jul 2000 04:50:17 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 03:36:12 GMT From: narteh@ece.rutgers.edu (Phillip Stanley-Marbell) Message-ID: <200007030313.UAA22654@ohio.river.org> Organization: Plan 9 mailing list Subject: Plan 9, NOT 'Plan Nine' was Re: [9fans] The problems of... Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Well, come on. The article had nothing to do with Plan 9 ;) It seems Mr Stallman was talking about _another_ OS called "Plan Nine". He also thinks that this "Plan Nine" is distributed by AT&T ;(?* - pip From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 3 01:45:35 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA28211 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 01:45:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from tammananny.tiger (root@PPP12.calarts.edu [156.3.140.242]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA28207 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 01:45:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tammananny.tiger (quinn@tammananny.tiger [127.0.0.1]) by tammananny.tiger (8.9.3/) with ESMTP id AAA00568 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 00:00:42 -0700 Message-Id: <200007030700.AAA00568@tammananny.tiger> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Re: plan9 for vampires In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 29 Jun 2000 08:28:03 EDT." <200006291228.FAA15018@envy.ugcs.caltech.edu> Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 00:00:42 -0700 From: Quinn Dunkan <quinn@envy.ugcs.caltech.edu> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Berry Kercheval: > >Since none of the Plan 9 developers can safely go out in daylight, > >we've never observed this behavior. > > That's funny; I distinctly remember the Tromso distributed computing > conference a while ago, and you and Rob were both there. The sun didn't > set AT ALL. Were they wearing cloaks? Maybe they just *looked* like rob and presotto from the nose up. At 08:28 AM 06/29/2000 -0400, presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > > And... I'm getting corruption on certain files coming off of dos partitions. > > For example, the wrap.tgz update worked fine, but the 06070617.9gz doesn't > > come over as a valid gzip (works fine from linux, though). Someone else on > > the list mentioned something that sounded similar. > Try doing an md5sum of 06070617.9gz. We see it as: > % md5sum 06070617.9gz > 66a22bba5cce05d1e93cb43e81749c86 06070617.9gz Yeah, that's what I see on linux, but not on plan9. But at least wrong md5 I get is always the same wrong md5. Which is funny, since plan9.9gz came off the dos partition just fine. Or wait, maybe it came off ext2. Maybe dossrv doesn't like large partitions? It's one 13GB partition, with the file right near the end. When ftp.mime.univ-paris8.fr comes back up again,I'll try ext2 server and see if it works better (unless someone knows where to find it on a different server). ... and ... Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za>: > Sure seems like it: I see what I would consider only a subset of > the normal mailing list traffic. Well, I never got whatever this was responding too, but I guess that just illustrates the point. I also get just about every msg twice. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 3 02:04:02 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA28548 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 02:04:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from bio.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA28544 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 02:03:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 25253 invoked by uid 991); 3 Jul 2000 06:03:57 -0000 Message-ID: <20000703060357.25251.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] duplicate messages Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 02:03:57 -0400 From: Scott Schwartz <schwartz@bio.cse.psu.edu> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk The problem with the duplicate messages is apparently due to a malfunction in the mail->usenet/usenet->mail gateway at bath.ac.uk. Messages sent to the list are posted to usenet, and then send back to the list. I've been trying to get in touch with the gateway maintainers to discuss the problem. Until then, I don't know what the best action is. I can discontinue the mail->usenet flow, which is fine for people on the list, but not so nice for people reading on usenet. In the longer term, if the usenet->mail gateway is to be unmoderated, I can essay to have it relocated to here, which might simplify things. -- Scott (owner-9fans) From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 3 02:36:54 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA28934 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 02:36:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA28930 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 02:36:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 138zc0-0004sP-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 03 Jul 2000 07:21:44 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 06:15:05 GMT From: quinn@envy.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan) Message-ID: <200007030700.AAA00568@tammananny.tiger> Organization: Plan 9 mailing list References: <200006291228.FAA15018@envy.ugcs.caltech.edu> Subject: [9fans] Re: plan9 for vampires Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Berry Kercheval: > >Since none of the Plan 9 developers can safely go out in daylight, > >we've never observed this behavior. > > That's funny; I distinctly remember the Tromso distributed computing > conference a while ago, and you and Rob were both there. The sun didn't > set AT ALL. Were they wearing cloaks? Maybe they just *looked* like rob and presotto from the nose up. At 08:28 AM 06/29/2000 -0400, presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > > And... I'm getting corruption on certain files coming off of dos partitions. > > For example, the wrap.tgz update worked fine, but the 06070617.9gz doesn't > > come over as a valid gzip (works fine from linux, though). Someone else on > > the list mentioned something that sounded similar. > Try doing an md5sum of 06070617.9gz. We see it as: > % md5sum 06070617.9gz > 66a22bba5cce05d1e93cb43e81749c86 06070617.9gz Yeah, that's what I see on linux, but not on plan9. But at least wrong md5 I get is always the same wrong md5. Which is funny, since plan9.9gz came off the dos partition just fine. Or wait, maybe it came off ext2. Maybe dossrv doesn't like large partitions? It's one 13GB partition, with the file right near the end. When ftp.mime.univ-paris8.fr comes back up again,I'll try ext2 server and see if it works better (unless someone knows where to find it on a different server). ... and ... Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za>: > Sure seems like it: I see what I would consider only a subset of > the normal mailing list traffic. Well, I never got whatever this was responding too, but I guess that just illustrates the point. I also get just about every msg twice. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 3 02:51:50 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA29193 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 02:51:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA29188 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 02:51:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 138zsa-000531-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 03 Jul 2000 07:38:52 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 06:25:14 GMT From: schwartz@bio.cse.psu.edu (Scott Schwartz) Message-ID: <20000703060357.25251.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Organization: Plan 9 mailing list Subject: [9fans] duplicate messages Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk The problem with the duplicate messages is apparently due to a malfunction in the mail->usenet/usenet->mail gateway at bath.ac.uk. Messages sent to the list are posted to usenet, and then send back to the list. I've been trying to get in touch with the gateway maintainers to discuss the problem. Until then, I don't know what the best action is. I can discontinue the mail->usenet flow, which is fine for people on the list, but not so nice for people reading on usenet. In the longer term, if the usenet->mail gateway is to be unmoderated, I can essay to have it relocated to here, which might simplify things. -- Scott (owner-9fans) From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 3 05:36:49 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA00559 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 05:36:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA00555 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 05:36:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1392dv-0001Uh-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 03 Jul 2000 10:35:55 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 09:35:42 GMT From: chris@river.org Message-ID: <App75.128$c5.201018@news.ntplx.net> Organization: NETPLEX Internet Services - http://www.ntplx.net/ References: <395CF6C2.C33A3F3D@att.net> Subject: [9fans] Re: Help with S3 video card needed Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk I brought up (yet another variant) Plan 9 box yesterday; a known-to- work video card failed because of an address conflict with an SMC 8416 ethernet card. The fix was to find a new (programmable in EEPROM) address space for the ethernet card (IRQ was fine where it was). The presence of this card continues to generate error messages about that address space, but everything works. Suggest you attempt to bring up your card either on another motherboard, or with as many other devices disabled/removed as possible, just to simplify what's going on for you. Once you've seen that card working, it will give you a better feel for the nature of the problem of getting everything working together. You also might want to try to borrow another video card and/or motherboard (and/or ethernet card!) That could be a long-term strategy, if you currently don't have connections to make that happen (join a computer club!) Hope that's helpful. Chris Hafey <chris@river.org> (also tingri@ntplx.net) From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 3 05:36:59 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA00582 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 05:36:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA00574 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 05:36:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1392dt-0001UJ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 03 Jul 2000 10:35:53 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 09:34:11 GMT From: Andy Newman <atrn@zeta.org.au> Message-ID: <slrn8lp1v2.89.atrn@juju.bsn> Organization: is for the organised References: <3.0.5.32.20000629191848.008e84c0@mail.real.com>, <20000629221326.B8523@cyber-dyne.com> Reply-To: atrn@zeta.org.au Subject: Re: [9fans] gtk port Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Randolph Fritz wrote: >The following might be addressed by an NGLayout port: Preceeded by the g++ port no doubt. Just ignore the real web, adopt the stylised file system view, use it where it works and as it should be used. If it's a good idea eventually Microsoft will adopt some bastardised version of it and everyone will prosper. 20 years seems to be about the gestation period of OS ideas so you need patience. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 3 05:37:50 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA00683 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 05:37:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA00615 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 05:37:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1392du-0001UR-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 03 Jul 2000 10:35:54 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 09:34:31 GMT From: Dennis Ritchie <dmr@bell-labs.com> Message-ID: <395D8498.2CADF9FB@bell-labs.com> Organization: Bell Labs / Lucent Technologies Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <962371275.515522@jet.ncc.icyb.kiev.ua>, <4.2.0.58.20000630202924.00d076a0@mail1.ajubasolutions.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] gtk port Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Berry Kercheval wrote: > > ... name is changed. Scriptics is now Ajuba Solutions. Try > > http://dev.ajubasolutions.com > > The Scriptics names will redirect to ajuba. > > (I work for but do not represent Ajuba) The naming winds blow inconstantly and in different directions. The Lucent spinout company of the PBX/Enterprise Network business is called Avaya. And their home page displays moving graphics just that much more irritating than those of Scriptics->Ajuba. Ah for the old days, when investing in companies with a K at the beginning or end of the name was a lock, or perhaps later when the terminal X looked good. Dennis From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 3 05:37:56 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA00685 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 05:37:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA00631 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 05:37:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1392du-0001Ub-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 03 Jul 2000 10:35:54 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 09:35:18 GMT From: Boyd Roberts <boyd@psycho-basket-case.org> Message-ID: <8jkfl8$qko$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Subject: [9fans] sam Makefiles for linux Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk I know that this a bit off topic, but I've put sam up on linux (to my shame) about 1e9 times, but the last time I saved the Make.linux's at: http://www.planete.net/~boyd/code/sam.Make.linux.bundle linux is such a crock. -- Boyd Roberts boyd@psycho-basket-case.org ``I come over here to kill them cocksuckers, not work for 'em'' -- Moon Dog, _Pettibone's Law_, John Keene Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 3 05:55:21 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA01309 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 05:55:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA01305 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 05:55:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1392jo-0001pt-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 03 Jul 2000 10:42:00 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 09:37:02 GMT From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <DAGwyn@null.net> Message-ID: <395F04FD.135E08EE@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <394BB632.213208CB@yahoo.com>, <200007020500.WAA22046@carbon.flatlan.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] Still more newbie blather Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Darrell wrote: > ... when I try to floppy boot it, it shows "PBS... Plan 9 by Bell > Labs", and then it reboot. My first guess is that you have a bad floppy disk. Try a different one with a *fresh* download. Don't use RAWRITE.EXE under Windows NT (including 2000 Pro); stick to Windows 9x or some sort of UNIX ("dd" for the latter with bs= the exact size of the 1.4MB image). There is some sort of problem with the floppy device support used in the installation floppy (9disk); on some systems it works fine, on others it works occasionally, and on still others it never works. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 3 05:55:52 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA01376 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 05:55:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA01332 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 05:55:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1392jl-0001pR-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 03 Jul 2000 10:41:57 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 09:36:05 GMT From: Darrell <darrell@flatlan.net> Message-ID: <slti5l3hop3150@corp.supernews.com> Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Subject: [9fans] plan 9 not booting on 486 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk I downloaded plan 9 onto a floppy and started to install it onto a 486. it showed that it was in fact Plan 9, and then reboot. Here's what it read: PBS... Plan 9 from Bell Labs Machine is a 486DX IBM PS/ValuePoint with Tseng ET4000, 24 MB of RAM, NE2000, and about 500MB hard drive. The boot disk is configured for 8 bit, generic 640x480 tube, 640x480 resolution, auto settings on the ethernet card. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 3 05:56:07 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA01408 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 05:56:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA01357 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 05:55:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1392jm-0001pb-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 03 Jul 2000 10:41:58 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 09:36:22 GMT From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <DAGwyn@null.net> Message-ID: <395F01E9.67FF506D@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <lzoem5hhece.fsf@migi.aist-nara.ac.jp>, <20000630072823.D10630@cyber-dyne.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] gtk port Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Randolph Fritz wrote: > Both of those things said, I agree that gnome/gtk/gdk is not very > 9ish. However, having them available will make Plan 9 more accessible > to a wider user and developer community, which seems to me likely to > be positive. I don't think attracting to Plan9 the kind of developer who *prefers* GNOME is at all a positive step. However, I see no harm in having GTK+/GLIB implemented on Plan9; for one thing, it makes importing useful apps that weren't developed with Plan9 in mind easier, much as APE makes importing POSIX apps easier. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 3 05:56:20 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA01434 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 05:56:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA01368 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 05:55:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1392jn-0001pk-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 03 Jul 2000 10:41:59 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 09:36:46 GMT From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <DAGwyn@null.net> Message-ID: <395F031A.DCDEE0C@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <8ji3qr$3q2$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Subject: [9fans] Re: fd2path Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Boyd Roberts wrote: > In the last case you could loop on calling malloc until > you got the whole thing. Um, you really think that is a good design? From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 3 07:56:44 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA03012 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 07:56:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from guru.unisinos.br (root@ebt-a7.unisinos.br [200.198.137.7] (may be forged)) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA03008 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 07:56:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pascal.unisinos.br (pascal.unisinos.br [10.16.163.2]) by guru.unisinos.br (UNISINOS/) with ESMTP id e63DsWM16923 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 10:54:32 -0300 Received: from PASCAL/SpoolDir by pascal.unisinos.br (Mercury 1.47); 3 Jul 00 08:56:05 -0300 Received: from SpoolDir by PASCAL (Mercury 1.47); 3 Jul 00 08:55:50 -0300 Received: from postel.unisinos.br (10.16.163.101) by pascal.unisinos.br (Mercury 1.47); 3 Jul 00 08:55:49 -0300 From: Guilherme Bedin <bedin@exatas.unisinos.br> Reply-To: bedin@exatas.unisinos.br To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] help Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 08:54:59 -0300 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.29] Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00070308575500.11316@postel.unisinos.br> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk how I subscribe ??? From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 3 08:41:48 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA03729 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 08:41:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA03725 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 08:41:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1395NX-00072X-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 03 Jul 2000 13:31:11 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 12:25:58 GMT From: Michael Lothian <darkwalker@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: <396078A5.7AC94CC8@bigfoot.com> Organization: -=(UDIC)=- Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------293A693B3F4CD534BE588C28" Subject: [9fans] Linksys EtherFast NICs Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------293A693B3F4CD534BE588C28 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a Linksys Etherfast v2 NIC, and I got it to work with the DEC 2114x driver by having it look for the right PCI device IDs (taken from the tulip.c driver in linux).. maybe this will be useful to someone else... I've attached a diff to /sys/src/9/pc/ether2114x.c. I think the driver is in other arches too but I don't have any non-intel boxen to them with :) BTW: Is there anywhere official to send patches or other stuff? -- Michael Lothian | root@ultima-dragons.org -=(UDIC)=- (xxxxx*=======================- sync.dyndns.org | darkwalker@bigfoot.com --------------293A693B3F4CD534BE588C28 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="pnic.diff" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="pnic.diff" 1331a1332,1375 > > while(p = pcimatch(p, 0x11AD, 0)){ > switch(p->did){ > default: > continue; > > case 0x0002: /* PNIC or PNIC II cards (Lite-On, Kingston) */ > case 0xC115: > break; > } > > /* > * bar[0] is the I/O port register address and > * bar[1] is the memory-mapped register address. > */ > ctlr = malloc(sizeof(Ctlr)); > ctlr->port = p->mem[0].bar & ~0x01; > ctlr->pcidev = p; > > if(ioalloc(ctlr->port, p->mem[0].size, 0, "dec2114x") < 0){ > print("dec2114x: port %d in use\n", ctlr->port); > free(ctlr); > continue; > } > > /* > * Some cards (e.g. ANA-6910FX) seem to need the Ps bit > * set or they don't always work right after a hardware > * reset. > */ > csr32w(ctlr, 6, Mbo|Ps); > softreset(ctlr); > > if(srom(ctlr)){ > free(ctlr); > break; > } > > if(ctlrhead != nil) > ctlrtail->next = ctlr; > else > ctlrhead = ctlr; > ctlrtail = ctlr; > } --------------293A693B3F4CD534BE588C28-- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 3 11:40:11 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA06197 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 11:40:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from pali.cps.cmich.edu (pali.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.131.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA06192 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 11:40:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from ishwar@localhost) by pali.cps.cmich.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA15162 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 11:39:42 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ishwar) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 11:39:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Ish Rattan <ishwar@pali.cps.cmich.edu> Message-Id: <200007031539.LAA15162@pali.cps.cmich.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] 9disk.9fd problem second time.. Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Hello, I had the Plan9 installed. There was a kfs problem (corruption?). So I tried to redo the install. The boot disk is now causing trouble.. During boot there is message.. ... can't create /tmp/plan9.orig: permission denied ... Tries to bring rio (reaches as far as red screen) and fails with messages.. echo -n 'hwaccel off' echo -n 'hwblank off' cd can't cd to /usr/bootes . lib/profile lib/profile: rc: .: can't open init: rc exit status: rc 15: cpurc 16: can't open init: starting /bin/rc % Any ideas? - ishwar From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 3 14:15:03 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA09040 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 14:15:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from hon.ai.univ-paris8.fr (hon.ai.univ-paris8.fr [192.33.156.10]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA09035 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 14:14:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from jm@localhost) by hon.ai.univ-paris8.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA00795 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 20:24:10 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 20:24:10 +0200 (CEST) From: Jean Mehat <jm@ai.univ-paris8.fr> Message-Id: <200007031824.UAA00795@hon.ai.univ-paris8.fr> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] mime.univ-paris8.fr Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Sorry to reply to the whole list, I lost the original mail. Our Plan 9 network is slowly being brought up, but the ext2fs server of Laurent Bodet is still available at ftp://or.mime.univ-paris8.fr/pub/bl From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 4 05:07:11 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA21192 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jul 2000 05:07:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA21188 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Jul 2000 05:07:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 139Ocz-0001QU-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 04 Jul 2000 10:04:25 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 08:32:22 GMT From: Conway Yee <yee@bronze.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: <bqw66qmdhd8.fsf@bronze.lcs.mit.edu> Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science References: <200007021635.SAA27152@bizcoyo.dat.escet.urjc.es> Subject: Re: [9fans] The problems of the Plan 9 license, by Richard Stallman Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk After reading RMS's arguments, I come to the conclusion that if this points are what RMS have to worry about, then Plan 9 is indeed free software. Conway Yee From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 4 06:15:34 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA21932 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jul 2000 06:15:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from al.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.250.160.73]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA21928 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Jul 2000 06:15:27 -0400 (EDT) From: arisawa@al.aichi-u.ac.jp Message-Id: <200007041015.GAA21928@cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] bind -ac B A Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 19:11:08 0900 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Hello, I wonder about the following result: term% pwd /usr/arisawa/T term% ls -l * --rw-rw-r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 0 Jul 4 16:15 A/a1 --rw-rw-r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 0 Jul 4 16:15 A/a2 --rw-rw-r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 0 Jul 4 16:15 A/c --rw-rw-r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 0 Jul 4 16:15 B/b1 --rw-rw-r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 0 Jul 4 16:15 B/b2 --rw-rw-r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 0 Jul 4 16:15 B/c term% bind -ac B A term% ls -l * --rw-rw-r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 0 Jul 4 16:15 A/a1 --rw-rw-r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 0 Jul 4 16:15 A/a2 --rw-rw-r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 0 Jul 4 16:15 A/b1 --rw-rw-r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 0 Jul 4 16:15 A/b2 --rw-rw-r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 0 Jul 4 16:15 A/c --rw-rw-r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 0 Jul 4 16:15 A/c --rw-rw-r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 0 Jul 4 16:15 B/b1 --rw-rw-r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 0 Jul 4 16:15 B/b2 --rw-rw-r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 0 Jul 4 16:15 B/c term% touch A/x term% ls -l * --rw-rw-r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 0 Jul 4 16:15 A/a1 --rw-rw-r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 0 Jul 4 16:15 A/a2 --rw-rw-r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 0 Jul 4 16:15 A/b1 --rw-rw-r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 0 Jul 4 16:15 A/b2 --rw-rw-r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 0 Jul 4 16:15 A/c --rw-rw-r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 0 Jul 4 16:15 A/c --rw-rw-r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 0 Jul 4 16:45 A/x --rw-rw-r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 0 Jul 4 16:15 B/b1 --rw-rw-r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 0 Jul 4 16:15 B/b2 --rw-rw-r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 0 Jul 4 16:15 B/c --rw-rw-r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 0 Jul 4 16:45 B/x term% unmount A term% ls -l * --rw-rw-r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 0 Jul 4 16:15 A/a1 --rw-rw-r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 0 Jul 4 16:15 A/a2 --rw-rw-r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 0 Jul 4 16:15 A/c --rw-rw-r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 0 Jul 4 16:15 B/b1 --rw-rw-r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 0 Jul 4 16:15 B/b2 --rw-rw-r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 0 Jul 4 16:15 B/c --rw-rw-r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 0 Jul 4 16:52 B/x I think the file x should be created in A. Thanks, Kenji Arisawa E-mail: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 4 06:34:39 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA22193 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jul 2000 06:34:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from al.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.250.160.73]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA22185 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Jul 2000 06:34:30 -0400 (EDT) From: arisawa@al.aichi-u.ac.jp Message-Id: <200007041034.GAA22185@cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] /mail/lib/rewrite Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 19:30:15 0900 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Hello 9fans, In /mail/lib/rewrite we will find the line: ([^!]*)!(.*) | "/mail/lib/qmail '\s' 'net!$smtp'" "'\2@\1'" The corresponding line of second edition was: ([^!]*)!(.*) | "/mail/lib/qmail '\s' 'net!\1'" "'\2'" In man page, we will find examples of usage of /mail/lib/qmail: ([^!]*.bell-labs.com)!(.*) | "/mail/lib/qmail '\s' 'net!\1'" "'\2'" and /mail/lib/qmail presotto net!plan9.bell-labs.com ken rob Where and how can we define $smtp ? It seems that rewrite rule of second edition style works. However then we have a message in /sys/log/smtp.fail: al Jul 4 19:11:09 cs: dns: no translation found(net!$smtp!smtp) Thanks, Kenji Arisawa E-mail: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 4 06:34:38 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA22192 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jul 2000 06:34:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from minster.cs.york.ac.uk (minster.cs.york.ac.uk [144.32.40.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA22184 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Jul 2000 06:34:30 -0400 (EDT) From: ianb@cs.york.ac.uk Received: (from ianb@localhost) by pc095.cs.york.ac.uk (8.9.3/client981223.PNT) id LAA27309; Tue, 4 Jul 2000 11:29:23 +0100 Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 11:29:23 +0100 Message-Id: <200007041029.LAA27309@pc095.cs.york.ac.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] auth/cpu vga problems Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk I followed the instructions for creating an auth/cpu server but can not get rio to run on the cpu server. I've added calls to aux/mouse and aux/vga in cpurc, but aux/vga dies with the error aux/vga: vgactlw: <hwgc rgb524hwgc>: bad arg in system call The vgadb line for the card is "Stealth 64 Video VRAM 3.00". The vga works with no problems when running as a terminal, it is only when running as a CPU server that things don't work. What's going on? Also, what is the status of the kfs patch that will allow the same machine to be used as a cpu/auth/fileserver? Ian From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 4 09:20:28 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA23677 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jul 2000 09:20:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA23671 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Jul 2000 09:20:21 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200007041320.JAA23671@cse.psu.edu> Subject: re: [9fans] bind -ac B A Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 09:20:02 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk In answer to kenji's paradox... Perhaps this will help explain: % mkdir A % mkdir B % bind -a B A % touch A/x touch: A/x: cannot create: mounted directory forbids creation % unmount A % bind -c A A % bind -ac B A % touch A/x % unmount A % ls -l A B --rw-rw-r-- M 6 presotto presotto 0 Jul 4 08:52 A/x % A mount point is an ordered list of binds and mounts. If you do % bind -a B A onto an A that isn't already a mount point, then there's no list of mount/bind's to chain this one after. Therfore, the kernel does an implicit bind of A onto A to be the first mount point in the list. It then appends the bind of B onto A to the list. That first inplicit bind doesn't have the create bit set so B is the first thing in the list with create priviledge. The original version of plan 9 actually required you to explicitly bind A onto itself before letting you bind B onto A. That was a bit awkward so we made it automatic. Unfortunately, we may also make it counterintuitive but I like not typing all those gratuitous extra binds. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 4 09:37:15 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA24005 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jul 2000 09:37:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA24001 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Jul 2000 09:37:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 139SmE-00060c-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 04 Jul 2000 14:30:14 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 13:20:13 GMT From: Bengt Kleberg <bengt@softwell.se> Message-ID: <bengt-0407001458570001@d212-151-235-22.swipnet.se> Organization: A Customer of Tele2 References: <8jkfl8$qko$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Subject: [9fans] Re: sam Makefiles for linux Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk In article <8jkfl8$qko$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Boyd Roberts <boyd@psycho-basket-case.org> wrote: > I know that this a bit off topic, but I've put sam up on > linux (to my shame) about 1e9 times, but the last time > I saved the Make.linux's at: > > http://www.planete.net/~boyd/code/sam.Make.linux.bundle Thanks to "Mark H. Wilkinson" <mhw@kremvax.net> there is a 9libs that uses configure and should build on most Unix'es. There is also a sam-9libs that also uses configure and 9libs that also should build on most Unix'es. There has been an announcement on www.freshmeat.net From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 4 09:52:28 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA24250 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jul 2000 09:52:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (none@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA24246 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Jul 2000 09:52:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 09:52:22 -0400 (EDT) From: arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20000704132414.297.qmail@nx.aichi-u.ac.jp> MBOX-Line: From kenji Tue Jul 4 22:24:13 2000 Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3J v130.3) Subject: [9fans] norelay option in /mail/lib/smtpd.conf Reply-To: Kenji Arisawa <arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Hello, I like upas of Plan 9. It is simple and flexble. Some features are added in this release to guard our system against SPAM. However norelay Option in /mail/lib/smtpd.conf is difficult to understand for me: norelay off #allow relaying What is this means? The possibilities are: 1. "norelay off" means allow relaying 2. "norelay off" means disallow relaying The comment on the right side says "allow relaying", however there is another comment in this file: # if norelay is on, you need to set the # networks allowed to relay through # as well as the domains to accept mail for If we are allowed to write: relay off # disallow relaying it will be more clear for everyone. By the way, smtpd can controll incomming mails using sender-receiver address pair. Therefore relay filter using the pair will be more powerful. Thanks, Kenji Arisawa E-mail: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 4 11:05:40 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA25026 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jul 2000 11:05:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA25021 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Jul 2000 11:05:36 -0400 (EDT) From: bobf@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200007041505.LAA25021@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] norelay option in /mail/lib/smtpd.conf Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 11:05:34 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk > If we are allowed to write: > relay off # disallow relaying > it will be more clear for everyone. that's reasonable. you can change the code in /sys/src/cmd/upas/smtp/spam.c to reverse the sense of the parse. > By the way, smtpd can controll incomming mails > using sender-receiver address pair. > Therefore relay filter using the pair will be more powerful. no, the sender domain is easily forged. almost all relay probes that we see claim to be from our domain. the peer ip address is more difficult to forge, so we use it. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 4 11:23:57 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA25361 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jul 2000 11:23:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA25357 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Jul 2000 11:23:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007041523.LAA25357@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] /mail/lib/rewrite From: "Russ Cox" <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 11:23:51 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk In /mail/lib/rewrite we will find the line: ([^!]*)!(.*) | "/mail/lib/qmail '\s' 'net!$smtp'" "'\2@\1'" This line is meant to send _all_ mail to a gateway, named by the smtp= entry in your /lib/ndb database for the current machine (or network). If you're connecting to an ISP and just want to hand off your mail and let someone else deal with send retries and the like, this is the one to use. The corresponding line of second edition was: ([^!]*)!(.*) | "/mail/lib/qmail '\s' 'net!\1'" "'\2'" This line sends to the host directly, no mail gateway. If you're running a cpu server or your own Plan 9 network, this is more appropriate. However then we have a message in /sys/log/smtp.fail: al Jul 4 19:11:09 cs: dns: no translation found(net!$smtp!smtp) This is almost certainly coming from the first rule, not the second. Russ From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 4 11:44:23 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA25706 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jul 2000 11:44:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA25702 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Jul 2000 11:44:19 -0400 (EDT) From: bobf@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200007041544.LAA25702@cse.psu.edu> Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 11:44:17 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Re: [9fans] /mail/lib/rewrite > In /mail/lib/rewrite we will find the line: > ([^!]*)!(.*) | "/mail/lib/qmail '\s' 'net!$smtp'" "'\2@\1'" > > The corresponding line of second edition was: > ([^!]*)!(.*) | "/mail/lib/qmail '\s' 'net!\1'" "'\2'" > > In man page, we will find examples of usage of /mail/lib/qmail: > ([^!]*.bell-labs.com)!(.*) | "/mail/lib/qmail '\s' 'net!\1'" "'\2'" > and > /mail/lib/qmail presotto net!plan9.bell-labs.com ken rob > > Where and how can we define $smtp ? $smtp is defined in the ndb network database; see ndb(6). $smtp need only be set if your plan 9 system passes all outgoing mail to another gateway system for delivery. both prototype rewrite files in /mail/lib contain a rewrite rule to do this. however, if you wish for your system to deliver all mail directly, then replace the rule: ([^!]*)!(.*) | "/mail/lib/qmail '\s' 'net!$smtp'" "'\2@\1'" with ([^!]*)!(.*) | "/mail/lib/qmail '\s' 'net!\1'" "'\2'" in the rewrite file. further, if you wish for your plan 9 server to receive messages from other systems, you will need to use /mail/lib/rewrite.gateway as your prototype file and add the following rules behind the rule that does local delivery: # our names \l!(.*) alias \1 (\l\.)?YOURDOMAIN\.DOM!(.*) alias \2 these rules strip your system/domain name from the recipient address to allow the user name to resolve to a mailbox. replace YOURDOMAIN.DOM by your domain name and don't forget to escape the '.' characters. finally, /mail/lib/remotemail is needlessly complex. i suggest that you replace > fd=`{/bin/upas/aliasmail -f $sender} > switch($fd){ > case *.* > ; > case * > fd=yourdomain.dom > } with fd=YOURDOMAIN.DOM where YOURDOMAIN.DOM is the domain that you want in the From: line of outgoing mail. this should be the same as the YOURDOMAIN.DOM string in the rewrite rules given above. i haven't been able to test these changes, so you might have to play with them a little. i hope to reorganize the prototype rewrite files and put all of the changes in the next update to the distribution. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 5 04:52:27 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA05263 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 04:52:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA05258 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 04:52:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 139kro-0004vm-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 05 Jul 2000 09:49:12 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 08:31:40 GMT From: John Dyson <toor@dyson.jdyson.com> Message-ID: <39625106.B9BB95FC@dyson.jdyson.com> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200007021635.SAA27152@bizcoyo.dat.escet.urjc.es>, <bqw66qmdhd8.fsf@bronze.lcs.mit.edu> Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net Subject: Re: [9fans] The problems of the Plan 9 license, by Richard Stallman Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Conway Yee wrote: > > After reading RMS's arguments, I come to the conclusion that if this > points are what RMS have to worry about, then Plan 9 is indeed free > software. > I STRONGLY suggest avoiding license debates. Ignore the rantings, and continue with the license that you see fit!!! John From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 5 04:52:39 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA05298 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 04:52:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA05264 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 04:52:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 139krp-0004vs-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 05 Jul 2000 09:49:13 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 08:32:16 GMT From: "Bruce G. Stewart" <bruce.g.stewart@worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <3962572D.953ED26D@worldnet.att.net> Organization: AT&T Worldnet Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200007020115.VAA06014@fuji.homenet> Reply-To: bstewart@bix.com Subject: Re: [9fans] Fixing the Older Millennium-1 Cursor Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk I have fixed the Millenium I cursor on my machine; I'll dig it out and forward it to you. The problem is that aux/vga sets the vertical blanking interval way too short, and the cursor is triggered off the end of the vertical blanking pulse. The end-vertical-retrace register should have something like total vertical - 2 or total vertical - 1. I amended /src/cmd/aux/vga/mga2164w.c to do this and the cursor works fine. As an added bonus, a few scanlines worth of cruft at the top of the screen went away. This probably should be changed in the generic vga file - I can't think of any reason it should ever be set to anything else, since plan9 has no overscan border. I will get the specifics for you next time I have 9 booted. Stephen Wynne wrote: > RAMDAC docs: http://www.ti.com/sc/docs/products/analog/tvp3025.html > Where to get started: /src/9/pc/vgamga2164w.c > What v3 does support: http://www.ti.com/sc/docs/products/analog/tvp3026.html From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 5 04:52:48 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA05314 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 04:52:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA05285 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 04:52:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 139krp-0004vy-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 05 Jul 2000 09:49:13 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 08:32:43 GMT From: "Bruce G. Stewart" <bruce.g.stewart@worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <39629C85.674304EB@worldnet.att.net> Organization: AT&T Worldnet Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200007020115.VAA06014@fuji.homenet> Reply-To: bstewart@bix.com Subject: Re: [9fans] Fixing the Older Millennium-1 Cursor Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk I missed the first part of this thread, so I don't know if the problem it refers to has been solved. Here's the fix I put in for the cursor on a Millennium I card (this particular card was V2.3.) The change adjusts the end-vertical-blanking parameter to be 2 less than the number of lines, visible and not, per scan. It has NOT been tested with interlaced modes; in fact, it has not been tested with anything other than -m p815 1600x1200x8. You will want to save the file /386/bin/aux/vga somewhere in case you need to go back. Add the line numbered 357 here to the function init() in file /sys/src/cmd/aux/vga/mga2164w.c: 353 354 offset = (mode->x*mode->z) >> ((pixbuswidth==32)? 6 : 7); 355 vga->crt[0x13] = offset; 356 vga->crt[0x14] = 0; 357 vga->crt[0x16] = mode->vt - 2; // bgs 30-Jun-00 358 vga->crt[0x17] = 0xE3; 359 Then build and reboot: cd /sys/src/cmd/aux/vga disk/kfscmd allow mk install disk/kfscmd halt Ctrl-Alt-Delete Stephen Wynne wrote: > RAMDAC docs: http://www.ti.com/sc/docs/products/analog/tvp3025.html > Where to get started: /src/9/pc/vgamga2164w.c > What v3 does support: http://www.ti.com/sc/docs/products/analog/tvp3026.html From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 5 04:53:00 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA05328 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 04:52:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA05296 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 04:52:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 139krq-0004wA-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 05 Jul 2000 09:49:14 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 08:33:41 GMT From: "Bruce G. Stewart" <bruce.g.stewart@worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <3962A031.2B67FC08@worldnet.att.net> Organization: AT&T Worldnet Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bstewart@bix.com Subject: [9fans] Need PPP setup guidance Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk I'm new to plan9. I have managed to overcome the vga and network configuration, and now I'd like to use ppp to an ISP. Can anyone suggest a tutorial or point me to an example rc command for setting up the ndb entries and establishing a ppp connection? Thanks. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 5 04:52:57 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA05327 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 04:52:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA05289 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 04:52:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 139krp-0004w4-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 05 Jul 2000 09:49:13 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 08:33:23 GMT From: "Bruce G. Stewart" <bruce.g.stewart@worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <39629F63.825C3CAE@worldnet.att.net> Organization: AT&T Worldnet Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <Pine.PMDF.3.96.1000626140347.547556470A-100000@WMICH.EDU> Reply-To: bstewart@bix.com Subject: [9fans] Re: How do I edit vgadb? Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk ed is kvetching because there it cannot create a file in the directory named in the environment variable TMP. Your best bet is to log in as glenda, not none. That way you'll have a tmp directory available. Nathaniel Banks wrote: > Well, I made it through installing Plan 9 by editing /lib/vgadb in MS > Windows. The install completed, and now I need to make the same change to > the installed system's /lib/vgadb. At user[none], if I enter glenda, the > system can't start the gui, and when I ls, I get an incomplete file > structure listed. If I just choose none, if I type in ed to try and edit > anything, I just get a line that says ?TMP, and another % prompt. > > Any ideas on what I might have missed? > > Nathaniel Banks > Political Science Major > Western Michigan University From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 5 06:22:39 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA06596 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 06:22:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA06590 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 06:22:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 139m6C-0005mA-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 05 Jul 2000 11:08:08 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 10:01:45 GMT From: Holger Veit <veit@simi.gmd.de> Message-ID: <slrn8m60lm.dvs.veit@simi.gmd.de> Organization: GMD, Sankt Augustin, Germany References: <Pine.PMDF.3.96.1000626140347.547556470A-100000@WMICH.EDU>, <39629F63.825C3CAE@worldnet.att.net> Reply-To: holger.veit@gmd.de Subject: [9fans] Re: How do I edit vgadb? Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk On Wed, 5 Jul 2000 08:33:23 GMT, Bruce G. Stewart <bruce.g.stewart@worldnet.att.net> wrote: >ed is kvetching because there it cannot create a file in the directory named >in the environment variable TMP. >Your best bet is to log in as glenda, not none. That way you'll have a tmp >directory available. chmod 755 "your tmp dir" or ramfs Holger -- I like to CON other people. I also like to inSULT other people. Both combined, apparently, becoming a CONSULTant is the best job for me. -- Dogbert From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 5 10:35:06 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA10427 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 10:35:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA10418 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 10:34:59 -0400 (EDT) From: sean@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200007051434.KAA10418@cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] re: dossrv bug Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 10:34:57 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk here's a fix to a dossrv bug in handling long file names. diff /n/dump/2000/0705/sys/src/cmd/dossrv/dosfs.c dosfs.c 555c555 < for(prevdo = dp->offset-32; prevdo >= 0; prevdo -= 32){ --- > for(prevdo = dp->offset-DOSDIRSIZE; prevdo >= 0; prevdo -= DOSDIRSIZE){ 562c562 < for(prevdo = ((Dosbpb*)xf->ptr)->sectsize-32; prevdo >= 0; prevdo -= 32){ --- > for(prevdo = ((Dosbpb*)xf->ptr)->sectsize-DOSDIRSIZE; prevdo >= 0; prevdo -= DOSDIRSIZE){ 664c664 < for(prevdo = dp->offset-32; prevdo >= 0; prevdo -= 32){ --- > for(prevdo = dp->offset-DOSDIRSIZE; prevdo >= 0; prevdo -= DOSDIRSIZE){ 671c671 < for(prevdo = ((Dosbpb*)f->xf->ptr)->sectsize-32; prevdo >= 0; prevdo -= 32){ --- > for(prevdo = ((Dosbpb*)f->xf->ptr)->sectsize-DOSDIRSIZE; prevdo >= 0; prevdo -= DOSDIRSIZE){ diff /n/dump/2000/0705/sys/src/cmd/dossrv/dossubs.c dossubs.c 517c517 < int isect, addr, o, addr1, addr2, o1, islong, have, need, sum; --- > int isect, addr, o, addr1, addr2, prevaddr, prevaddr1, o1, islong, have, need, sum; 522a523 > prevaddr1 = -1; 541c542 < dp->prevaddr = addr; --- > prevaddr = addr; 565a567 > prevaddr1 = prevaddr; 577a580 > dp->prevaddr = prevaddr1; 588a592 > prevaddr1 = prevaddr; 620a625 > dp->prevaddr = prevaddr; From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 5 10:41:09 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA10674 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 10:41:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from minster.cs.york.ac.uk (minster.cs.york.ac.uk [144.32.40.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA10664 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 10:41:02 -0400 (EDT) From: ianb@cs.york.ac.uk Received: (from ianb@localhost) by pc095.cs.york.ac.uk (8.9.3/client981223.PNT) id PAA17085; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 15:35:22 +0100 Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 15:35:22 +0100 Message-Id: <200007051435.PAA17085@pc095.cs.york.ac.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] auth/cpu vga problems Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk >You need to change the configuration of >the cpu server kernel by editing /sys/src/9/pc/pccpudisk. >If you compare it with /sys/src/9/pcdisk, you'll >see that it has fewer VGA drivers; in particular >it lacks yours (vgargb524). Thankyou. But when running rio on the CPU server, it is of course runs as bootes. Therefore a proper account for bootes needs to be created and so on. This seems a bit wierd to me and it didn't seem to work anyway when I tried it (was lib/profile executed? or just aborted after some earlier error...?). What is the best thing to do? Ian From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 5 10:57:44 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA11243 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 10:57:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from smtp2.fas.harvard.edu (root@smtp2.fas.harvard.edu [140.247.30.82]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA11234 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 10:57:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from poodle-pc.deas.harvard.edu (poodle-pc.deas.harvard.edu [140.247.51.128]) by smtp2.fas.harvard.edu with SMTP id KAA29482 Message-Id: <200007051457.KAA29482@smtp2.fas.harvard.edu> To: ianb@cs.york.ac.uk, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] auth/cpu vga problems From: "Russ Cox" <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 10:57:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk But when running rio on the CPU server, it is of course runs as bootes. Therefore a proper account for bootes needs to be created and so on. This seems a bit wierd to me and it didn't seem to work anyway when I tried it (was lib/profile executed? or just aborted after some earlier error...?). It should work. When you create a new user, though, you need to run /sys/lib/newuser (as the new user!) at first boot, to initialize things like your profile. Russ From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 5 12:20:52 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA13465 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 12:20:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from minster.cs.york.ac.uk (minster.cs.york.ac.uk [144.32.40.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA13454 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 12:20:44 -0400 (EDT) From: ianb@cs.york.ac.uk Received: (from ianb@localhost) by pc095.cs.york.ac.uk (8.9.3/client981223.PNT) id RAA18601; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 17:11:44 +0100 Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 17:11:44 +0100 Message-Id: <200007051611.RAA18601@pc095.cs.york.ac.uk> To: "Russ Cox" <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com>, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] auth/cpu vga problems Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk > it didn't seem to work > anyway when I tried it (was lib/profile executed? or just aborted after > some earlier error...?). > >It should work. >When you create a new user, though, >you need to run /sys/lib/newuser I did that anyway. But lib/profile is still not read because according to init.c, if running as a cpu then it should execute /bin/rc with no arguments (ie no -l or -c to make it read bootes' profile). Secondly, when I run lib/profile manually, I get 3 bind errors: bind: /mnt/term/dev/cons: file does not exist bind: /mnt/term/dev/consctl: file does not exist bind: /mnt/term/dev: file does not exist Ian From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 5 12:22:26 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA13621 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 12:22:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA13608 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 12:22:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 139rrf-0006Y4-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 05 Jul 2000 17:17:31 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 16:12:14 GMT From: Alt <alter@cybercafe.com.ua> Message-ID: <39634553.4B2EC94A@cybercafe.com.ua> Organization: KyivNet ISP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Plan-9 is too archic. ... yet. Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Hello, all. I have read an article about Plan-9 in one local weakly journal. Yes, it is that which I look for, some times ago. But ... it's do not allow my requairements, at the moment. Plan-9 is olded ! :( I feels sorry, that haven't find it few years ago. :( What I would like to see ? 1. Absolutely new User Interface. 2. Multidimensional information resources (files) system. 3. New World-Wide (Global) information storage, and its search technology. 4. Technologies of dynamic recompilation of code. Many other things which about I criticized UNIX, yet done in Plan-9. --the Alternative. email: alter@cybercafe.com.ua tel.: (in Kyiv/Ukraine)550-8285(Misha) (I speak english not so good, I prefer Ukrainian :) From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 5 14:00:22 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA16086 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 14:00:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from minster.cs.york.ac.uk (minster.cs.york.ac.uk [144.32.40.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA16082 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 14:00:17 -0400 (EDT) From: ianb@cs.york.ac.uk Received: (from ianb@localhost) by pc095.cs.york.ac.uk (8.9.3/client981223.PNT) id SAA19959; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 18:51:21 +0100 Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 18:51:21 +0100 Message-Id: <200007051751.SAA19959@pc095.cs.york.ac.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] cpu/auth server Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Sorry to keep pestering, but I am going to get this machine set up as a cpu/auth server, one way or another... Trying to add a user to the key database: permission denied error on the Securenet database. Does keyfs need to be run twice, once for the plan9 database and again for the securenet database? I have tried running it twice ( s/keys/netkeys/ on the args.) and it allows addition of users, but will not allow them to connect using telnet --- after entering the user, I get an "authentication failure" error (and don't get a challenge). Any idea what is wrong? Have I just followed the instructions wrongly?! Ian From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 5 14:08:36 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA16486 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 14:08:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ece.rutgers.edu (ece.rutgers.edu [128.6.46.12]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA16476 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 14:08:30 -0400 (EDT) From: narteh@ece.rutgers.edu Received: (qmail 13056 invoked by uid 31849); 5 Jul 2000 18:08:19 -0000 Date: 5 Jul 2000 18:08:19 -0000 Message-ID: <20000705180819.13055.qmail@ece.rutgers.edu> Cc: recipient list not shown: ; MBOX-Line: From narteh Wed Jul 5 14:05 EDT 2000 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk In start.html/ps: A version of fs(4) that supports POP3 mailboxes exists but is still being soaked; it may appear before long. Would it be possible to obtain this version to aid in the soaking ? I've got buckets of ... er ... water ? - pip From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 5 15:07:46 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA17886 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 15:07:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from pali.cps.cmich.edu (pali.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.131.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA17882 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 15:07:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from ishwar@localhost) by pali.cps.cmich.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA18471 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 15:06:59 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ishwar) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 15:06:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Ish Rattan <ishwar@pali.cps.cmich.edu> Message-Id: <200007051906.PAA18471@pali.cps.cmich.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Powergrah 64.. Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Just for your info. 1. Powergraph 64 1.1 PCI video card works (1024x768x8) with the entry in /lib/vgadb 0xC0044="Phoenix S3 TRIO64 Enhanced VGA BIOS. PCI Version 1.1" 2. Netkey from 2nd edition package for running Auth server under FreeBSD compiles under FreeBSD and Linux (it works!). Has any one compiled /sys/src/cmd/unix/drawterm under FreeBSD? - ishwar From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 5 20:15:23 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA02959 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 20:15:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from trachyte.chigaku6.co.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.91.52]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA02955 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 20:15:17 -0400 (EDT) From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Message-Id: <200007060015.UAA02955@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] [Q] how to generate PostScript file containing non-English characters Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 09:15:06 0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-amiiqujlyqpuryskqlhcpfjaoc" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-amiiqujlyqpuryskqlhcpfjaoc Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry, this is test mail. Now I can read this message in a new upas + acme mail. Congraturation! Dave! Kenji --upas-amiiqujlyqpuryskqlhcpfjaoc Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.103.2]) by granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05421 for <okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp>; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 23:50:28 +0900 Received: from cse.psu.edu (majordom@claven.cse.psu.edu [130.203.3.50]) by elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (8.9.3/3.7W-00051217) with ESMTP id XAA29422; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 23:50:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA09142; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 10:49:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by claven.cse.psu.edu (bulk_mailer v1.5); Tue, 27 Jun 2000 10:49:20 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA09098 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 10:49:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA09094 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 10:49:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200006271449.KAA09094@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] [Q] how to generate PostScript file containing non-English characters From: "rob pike" <rob@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 10:49:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp id XAA05421 The file foo contains Japanese encoded in UTF. How can I install Japanese font? Place your Japanese characters in font Jp (e.g. \f(Jp=E3=81=93=E3=82=93=E3= =81=AB=E3=81=A1=E3=81=AF =E4=B8=96=E7=95=8C\fP) and run troff like this: troff -man -mnihongo foo | lp -dstdout > foo.ps Look at the document /sys/doc/utf.ms to see this in action. -rob --upas-amiiqujlyqpuryskqlhcpfjaoc-- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 5 21:14:39 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA04437 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 21:14:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from wellington.cnchost.com (wellington.concentric.net [207.155.252.14]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA04432 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 21:14:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from namaste.stricca.org (discordia-asy-161.rutgers.edu [128.6.251.161]) by wellington.cnchost.com id VAA11380; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 21:14:31 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.8] Message-ID: <200007060114.VAA11380@wellington.cnchost.com> FROM: pip@namaste.stricca.org REPLY-TO: pip@stricca.org Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 01:19:55 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Acme Mail program MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Hi I'm a bit stuck on why the mail reader in acme does not work on my system. In the top titlebar, I type in 'Mail', doubleclick to highlight it (cyan ?), then I middle mouseclick. Drum roll... nothing happens. I must be missing something obvious. In the event that I am indeed doing the right thing...: /acme/mail/386/Mail gives me a Mail: can't open window ctl file: file does not exist /acme/mail/src/win.c:15-18 seems responsible: w->ctl = open("/mnt/wsys/new/ctl", ORDWR|OCEXEC); if(w->ctl<0 || read(w->ctl, buf, 12)!=12) error("can't open window ctl file: %r"); but I do not have a /mnt/wsys/new/ in the namespace of my rc when I do the /acme/mail/386/Mail. - pip From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 6 01:01:10 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA07400 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 01:01:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cthulhu.dircon.co.uk (digbyt@user50-2.jakinternet.co.uk [212.41.50.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA07394 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 01:01:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtp.redhotant.com (digbyt@localhost) by cthulhu.dircon.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA04750 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 06:00:56 +0100 (GMT/BST) Message-Id: <200007060500.GAA04750@cthulhu.dircon.co.uk> Subject: [9fans] license discussion To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 06:00:55 +0100 (GMT/BST) From: Digby Tarvin <digbyt@acm.org> Reply-To: digbyt@acm.org (Digby Tarvin) X-Face: &(//%&/WHJk7>_lW'@YYeED-qsdBV8&h3_Hpn/0.9_=}vTk</ul5CD1+9| 8eB>}5u/2l=Mx&rX!\.i9X{(S@nk[we'a|IX#|?jmh`(j}a+\C5/><k{;ry[TI\%m ~tA/]g}]Y;[kvpeZ9lmiVgU^+5 'B|gP{h*Wt4Vl]+5-X'<&wu> %DpYTPd<7jF2V b[Z.TjttL[FMm_$Z$^#qd62A:T.qw7}0S\o.Or_|I 2t~t0D=eCU"S?ls%(Ro X-Pgp-Key-Fingerprint: 61 E7 39 FE 4A F4 CA F3 F5 5E BB 45 26 EC 36 3C X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL70 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk There was some discussion a little while back of Stallman's criticism of the new Plan 9 licence, although I was a little unclear on what his specific objections were. The following article might be of interest to others who are curious. http://www.advogato.org/article/117.html Regards, DigbyT -- Digby R. S. Tarvin digbyt@acm.org http://www.cthulhu.dircon.co.uk From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 6 01:01:46 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA07469 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 01:01:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA07439 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 01:01:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fuji.homenet (pool-207-205-222-124.pbgh.grid.net [207.205.222.124]) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA29990 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 01:01:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fuji.homenet (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fuji.homenet (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA17104 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 01:01:21 -0400 Message-Id: <200007060501.BAA17104@fuji.homenet> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] K6-II/III on Slot7 or Super7 OK? Reply-to: Stephen Wynne <stevemw@place.org> Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 01:01:19 -0400 From: Stephen Wynne <stevemw@mindspring.com> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Would I have success running AMD K6-II or III processors with a Gigabyte GA5AX (http://www.giga-byte.com/gigabyte-web/products/ga5ax4.htm), or an ASUS P5A-B (http://www.asus.com.tw/products/motherboard/pentium/p5a%2Db/spec.html), for example? From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 6 02:58:02 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA08758 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 02:58:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from get.freewire.net (get.freewire.net [195.184.229.250]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA08754 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 02:57:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from noos.fr (d231-122.dial.mistral.co.uk [195.184.231.122]) by get.freewire.net (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA07272; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 07:45:48 +0100 Message-ID: <39642DF0.F51183B9@noos.fr> Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 07:57:52 +0100 From: Boyd Roberts <boyd@noos.fr> Organization: Psycho Basket Case Ouypatients Clinic X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.10 i686) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <DAGwyn@null.net> CC: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: fd2path References: <8ji3qr$3q2$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <395F031A.DCDEE0C@null.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Douglas A. Gwyn wrote: > > Boyd Roberts wrote: > > In the last case you could loop on calling malloc until > > you got the whole thing. > > Um, you really think that is a good design? yeah doug, whatcha gonna do when yer char buf[1024]; just ain't big enough, huh? upgrade to 5.n BSD? -- But I doubt if our present system [U.S. Army] will produce such an individual. They are too: _abrasive_, opinionated, undiplomatic, nonconformist, and effective. -- Colonel David H. Hackworth (U.S. Army, Ret.) From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 6 03:42:15 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA09411 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 03:42:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (caldo.demon.co.uk [194.222.207.148]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA09407 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 03:42:08 -0400 (EDT) From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk Message-Id: <200007060742.DAA09407@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] K6-II/III on Slot7 or Super7 OK? Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 08:42:10 0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-bjafszneubjqwsyppmqtoxsyat" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-bjafszneubjqwsyppmqtoxsyat Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i use K6-2 and K6-3 processors as terminals, exclusively, both at home and at work. i mainly use TMC motherboards, but i have several Gigabyte, and ASUS should be fine. one thing to watch is that if you get AGP you should ensure an AGP slot, not a graphics processor in the chip set. you can then select an AGP card that's supported, using a chipset with available documentation. i was careless recently and got a board with a Via MVP4 and had a miserable time in PCI graphics land until i replaced the board. originally i set out to do an MVP4 driver even so -- it's got an AGP Trident Blade 3D on chip -- but the MVP4 turns out to be one that's not documented on line -- they just tease you with the spec and table of contents -- and Via hasn't replied to my web-form request for the real thing. stuff it. i replaced it. i haven't got the time at the moment anyway. the Via MVP3 and MVP3+ chipsets work well (for us). if you do a lot of floating point work i've heard that AMD processors (except perhaps Athlon) aren't as effective as Intel ones, but my number or graphics crunching is fairly modest, so i haven't noticed. i also use K6-2 in file servers, but there you'll need to update /sys/src/fs/yourclonename/^(8253.c l.s) to include the terminal/cpu clock initialisation code and cpu id detection, to get the right processor type and delay timing. (i can provide the source until jmk has finished his file server revamp.) file server configuration is generally fussier, until jmk ... --upas-bjafszneubjqwsyppmqtoxsyat Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from tele-punt-22.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.7]) by lavoro; Thu Jul 6 08:02:26 BST 2000 Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 962859745:20:01281:0; Thu, 06 Jul 2000 05:02:25 GMT Received: from claven.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.3.50]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2109268; 6 Jul 2000 5:02 GMT Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA07533; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 01:02:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by claven.cse.psu.edu (bulk_mailer v1.5); Thu, 6 Jul 2000 01:02:03 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA07469 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 01:01:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA07439 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 01:01:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fuji.homenet (pool-207-205-222-124.pbgh.grid.net [207.205.222.124]) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA29990 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 01:01:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fuji.homenet (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fuji.homenet (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA17104 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 01:01:21 -0400 Message-Id: <200007060501.BAA17104@fuji.homenet> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] K6-II/III on Slot7 or Super7 OK? Reply-to: Stephen Wynne <stevemw@place.org> Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 01:01:19 -0400 From: Stephen Wynne <stevemw@mindspring.com> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Would I have success running AMD K6-II or III processors with a Gigabyte GA5AX (http://www.giga-byte.com/gigabyte-web/products/ga5ax4.htm), or an ASUS P5A-B (http://www.asus.com.tw/products/motherboard/pentium/p5a%2Db/spec.html), for example? --upas-bjafszneubjqwsyppmqtoxsyat-- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 6 05:30:05 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA10381 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 05:30:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from trachyte.chigaku6.co.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.91.52]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA10375 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 05:29:59 -0400 (EDT) From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Message-Id: <200007060929.FAA10375@cse.psu.edu> To: plan9@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Subject: Re: [9fans] K6-II/III on Slot7 or Super7 OK? Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 18:30:04 0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk >i also use K6-2 in file servers, but there you'll need to update /sys/src/fs/yourclonename/^(8253.c l.s) >to include the terminal/cpu clock initialisation code and cpu id detection, to get >the right processor type and delay timing. (i can provide the source until jmk has finished >his file server revamp.) This recalled my somewhat tired and obscured barin... My new file server is in this state, however, she is working just fine yet. ☺ By the way, Charles, you seem to be very busy. Do you have any plan to update rin for release 3? kenji From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 6 05:41:04 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA10626 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 05:41:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA10621 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 05:40:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13A7Uc-0006lg-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 06 Jul 2000 09:58:46 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 08:47:19 GMT From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <gwyn@arl.army.mil> Message-ID: <39638A21.CB7E6A30@arl.army.mil> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <39634553.4B2EC94A@cybercafe.com.ua> Subject: [9fans] Re: Plan-9 is too archic. ... yet. Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Alt wrote: > What I would like to see ? > 1. Absolutely new User Interface. > 2. Multidimensional information resources (files) system. > 3. New World-Wide (Global) information storage, and its search > technology. > 4. Technologies of dynamic recompilation of code. Feel free to implement these yourself. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 6 05:41:14 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA10646 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 05:41:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA10627 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 05:41:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13A7Uc-0006lm-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 06 Jul 2000 09:58:46 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 08:47:47 GMT From: Matthew Kirkwood <weejock@ferret.lmh.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0007052318510.10300-100000@ferret.lmh.ox.ac.uk> Organization: Oxford University, England Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] probs installing plan9 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Hi, I am having some troubles getting plan9 on my old PC. The thing is an AMD K6/200 (though I also put in a P100 chip to see if it was a CPU thing) with 64Mb, a 3c590b and a 2Mb S3 virge card in an old TX mobo. It boots OK from the floppy, asks me "root is .." and when I hit enter, I am rewarded with: cpu0: spurious interrupt 39, last 6 several times (varies from 3 to about a dozen). Very occasionally that last "6" is a "0". Then it announces: boot: can't read nvram i/o error boot: bad nvram key: s almost any key to reboot... boot: bad authentication id: <binary junk> boot: bad authentication domain: s almost any key to reboot... and asks for a password. If I hit return a few times, ignoring the requests for an authid and authdom, I am rewarded with: boot: can't write key to nvram: fd out of range or not open and some more kernel messages, ending with a panic and stack trace. Do I just have duff hardware, or might something else be wrong? Matthew. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 6 05:41:26 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA10675 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 05:41:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA10644 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 05:41:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13A7Ud-0006ls-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 06 Jul 2000 09:58:47 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 08:48:46 GMT From: "Bruce G. Stewart" <bruce.g.stewart@worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <3963FCF6.9BCE11ED@worldnet.att.net> Organization: AT&T Worldnet Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200007020115.VAA06014@fuji.homenet>, <39629C85.674304EB@worldnet.att.net> Reply-To: bstewart@bix.com Subject: Re: [9fans] Fixing the Older Millennium-1 Cursor Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Here's a more comprehensive fix for the Millennium I Cursor problem. Instead of adding the line I showed in a previous message, insert lines 408 through 428 from the following near the end of the init function in /sys/src/cmd/aux/vga/mga2164w.c: 405 mga->tvp[0x3A] = 0; 406 mga->tvp[0x06] = 0; 407 408 { 409 // bgs 05-Jul-00 - Fix vertical blanking setup 410 // This should probably be corrected in vga.c too. 411 412 int svb = mode->y; // Start vertical blanking after the last displayed line 413 int evb = mode->vt; // End vertical blanking after the total line count 414 415 if(mode->interlace == 'v'){ // A field is 1/2 of the lines in interlaced mode 416 svb /= 2; 417 evb /= 2; 418 } 419 --svb; 420 --evb; // line counter counts from 0 421 422 vga->crt[0x15] = svb; 423 vga->crt[0x07] = (vga->crt[0x07] & ~0x08) | ((svb & 0x100) >> 5); 424 vga->crt[0x09] = (vga->crt[0x09] & ~0x20) | ((svb & 0x200) >> 4); 425 mga->crtcext[0x02] = (mga->crtcext[0x02] & ~0x18) | ((svb & 0xC00) >> 7); 426 // MGA specific: bits 10 and 11 427 vga->crt[0x16] = evb; 428 } 429 430 clockcalc(vga, ctlr, mode->z); 431 432 433 mga->option = mga->option & ~0x3000; 434 if(vga->vmz > 2*Meg) 435 mga->option |= 0x1000; Then build and reboot: cd /sys/src/cmd/aux/vga disk/kfscmd allow mk install disk/kfscmd halt Ctrl-Alt-Delete This fixes problems with both the start and end of the vertical blanking interval, and should work for interlaced and non-interlaced modes alike. "Bruce G. Stewart" wrote: > I missed the first part of this thread, so I don't know if the problem it > refers to has been solved. Here's the fix I put in for the cursor on a > Millennium I card (this particular card was V2.3.) > > The change adjusts the end-vertical-blanking parameter to be 2 less than the > number of lines, visible and not, per scan. It has NOT been tested with > interlaced > modes; in fact, it has not been tested with anything other than -m p815 > 1600x1200x8. > > You will want to save the file /386/bin/aux/vga somewhere in case you need to go > back. > > Add the line numbered 357 here to the function init() in file > /sys/src/cmd/aux/vga/mga2164w.c: > > 353 > 354 offset = (mode->x*mode->z) >> ((pixbuswidth==32)? 6 : 7); > 355 vga->crt[0x13] = offset; > 356 vga->crt[0x14] = 0; > 357 vga->crt[0x16] = mode->vt - 2; // bgs 30-Jun-00 > 358 vga->crt[0x17] = 0xE3; > 359 > > Stephen Wynne wrote: > > > RAMDAC docs: http://www.ti.com/sc/docs/products/analog/tvp3025.html > > Where to get started: /src/9/pc/vgamga2164w.c > > What v3 does support: http://www.ti.com/sc/docs/products/analog/tvp3026.html From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 6 05:41:37 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA10701 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 05:41:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA10651 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 05:41:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13A7Ud-0006ly-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 06 Jul 2000 09:58:47 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 08:49:34 GMT From: Wladimir Mutel <mwg@alkar.net> Message-ID: <8k1f57$1a9r$1@pandora.alkar.net> Organization: Alkar-Teleport News server Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r References: <39634553.4B2EC94A@cybercafe.com.ua> Subject: [9fans] Re: Plan-9 is too archic. ... yet. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by cse.psu.edu id FAA10652 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Alt <alter@cybercafe.com.ua> wrote: > But ... it's do not allow my requairements, at the moment. Yes, exactly, you want from this OS to give you something it never promised to have. > Plan-9 is olded ! :( 'Obsolete', you mean ? Not more obsolete than Unix is. Use NT if you eager for smth 'New' :> > I feels sorry, that haven't find it few years ago. :( > What I would like to see ? > 1. Absolutely new User Interface. > 2. Multidimensional information resources (files) system. > 3. New World-Wide (Global) information storage, and its search > technology. > 4. Technologies of dynamic recompilation of code. Brrrr... Why do you suspect Plan9 to provide you with this ? You should create all this by yourself under any OS. Or you may switch to any OS that has these facilities now. > Many other things which about I criticized UNIX, yet done in Plan-9. Plan9 is not 'better Unix', as FAQ reads. Its architecture and facilities implied by one yet have to be researched by you. Somewhere it is completely non-UNIX (and of course it does not give you topics 1..4 right out of the box) ! (p.s. - and learn English better, please :>) -- mwg@alkar.net, 340044, 7442333, 7786458 - From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 6 07:07:40 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA11961 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 07:07:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA11955 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 07:07:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13A9IN-00007w-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 06 Jul 2000 11:54:15 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 10:38:24 GMT From: "Artem 'Thomas' Hlushko" <tom@topspin.kiev.ua> Message-ID: <962873898.138628@jet.ncc.icyb.kiev.ua> Organization: Unknown References: <39634553.4B2EC94A@cybercafe.com.ua> Subject: [9fans] Re: Plan-9 is too archic. ... yet. Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk hi! Alt <alter@cybercafe.com.ua> wrote: > But ... it's do not allow my requairements, at the moment. it's designed not for your requairements > Plan-9 is olded ! :( write something new > I feels sorry, that haven't find it few years ago. :( > What I would like to see ? > 1. Absolutely new User Interface. > 2. Multidimensional information resources (files) system. > 3. New World-Wide (Global) information storage, and its search > technology. > 4. Technologies of dynamic recompilation of code. do you think 9fans will materialize your drug dreams? relax > Many other things which about I criticized UNIX, yet done in Plan-9. it's easy critisize... show your stuff bye From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 6 11:22:54 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA16040 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 11:22:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA16035 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 11:22:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13ADLg-0006vb-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 06 Jul 2000 16:13:56 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 15:11:00 GMT From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <gwyn@arl.army.mil> Message-ID: <39649BC1.47D980B3@arl.army.mil> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <8ji3qr$3q2$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <39642DF0.F51183B9@noos.fr> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: fd2path Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Boyd Roberts wrote: > Douglas A. Gwyn wrote: > > Boyd Roberts wrote: > > > In the last case you could loop on calling malloc until > > > you got the whole thing. > > Um, you really think that is a good design? > yeah doug, whatcha gonna do when yer char buf[1024]; just ain't > big enough, huh? upgrade to 5.n BSD? I didn't say anything about char buf[1024]. Russ suggests that the intended change to the interface would result not just in an indication that the buffer was too small, but rather in an exact measure of how much too small, so that looping would not be required (unless perhaps the path was changing underfoot?). Of course, the right way in an ideal environment would be for the service call to return (a handle to, or a capability for) an object that is already constructed, so your program doesn't have to help construct it by supplying a buffer etc., but that isn't built into the Plan9 architecture. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 6 11:37:11 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA16584 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 11:37:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from rm-rstar.sfu.ca (root@rm-rstar.sfu.ca [142.58.120.21]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA16579 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 11:37:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fraser.sfu.ca (mcquiggi@fraser.sfu.ca [142.58.101.25]) by rm-rstar.sfu.ca (8.10.1/8.10.1/SFU-5.0H) with ESMTP id e66Fb4327346 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 08:37:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Kevin McQuiggin <mcquiggi@sfu.ca> Received: (from mcquiggi@localhost) by fraser.sfu.ca (8.9.2/8.9.2/SFU-5.0C) id IAA20444 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 08:37:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200007061537.IAA20444@fraser.sfu.ca> Subject: [9fans] Questions: plan9.ini; NE2000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 08:37:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL3] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Hi Group: I'm sort of new to the list, I played with Plan 9 about 1.5 years ago but put it aside due to work commitments. I'm back and working on installation of Plan 9 from the new (June 7) release. A couple of questions: 1. Any docs available on the syntax and options for the plan9.ini file? 2. I have a Novell NE2000. It gets detected on boot but when I set up IP address, netmask and gateway to download the distribution from the Net, nothing happens. The box just sits there, no network traffic at all. Are there config restrictions on the card or something? As I said, it _does_ get detected. It's IRQ 9 and (I recall) 0x320 for the card address. 3. Any docs on what gets written to the floppy after the initial boot? I find that if I start with a freshly formatted floppy, dd the image to it, it'll boot and start the install process fine, but the _second_ time I get messages similar to "boot device:". Choosing fd0!9PCFLOP.GZ seems to start the process but then I get a kernel panic. The maddening thing here is that even if I take the floppy to a DOS machine and remove the .nvr file that gets created, and reset all the files to their initial contents, that the floppy won't boot into the install properly again. Even re-doing the dd of the image onto the floppy and booting from it gives me the unworkable "boot from:" prompt. The only solution is to completely reformat the floppy (using fdformat under Linux), and re-copying the boot image. Then a boot of the floppy will start the normal install process again. Any docs on how to streamline this process would be helpful. Of course it won't be a problem once I get my NE2000 to work. Then I'll have the distribution and be off to the races! Thanks, Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 6 11:52:51 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA17082 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 11:52:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA17076 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 11:52:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13ADwU-0007gs-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 06 Jul 2000 16:51:58 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 15:51:10 GMT From: Ish Rattan <ratta1i@mail.cmich.edu> Message-ID: <3964A4DB.D77E8246@mail.cmich.edu> Organization: Central Michigan University Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200007051751.SAA19959@pc095.cs.york.ac.uk> Reply-To: ishwar@pali.cps.cmich.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] cpu/auth server Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk ianb@cs.york.ac.uk wrote: > Sorry to keep pestering, but I am going to get this > machine set up as a cpu/auth server, one way or another... > > Trying to add a user to the key database: permission denied error > on the Securenet database. Does keyfs need to be run twice, once > for the plan9 database and again for the securenet database? > > I have tried running it twice ( s/keys/netkeys/ on the args.) > and it allows addition of users, but will not allow them to connect > using telnet --- after entering the user, I get > an "authentication failure" error (and don't get a challenge). > Did you make auth=xxxx entry in /lib/ndb/local? hth From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 6 12:02:16 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA17465 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 12:02:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from smtp4.fas.harvard.edu (root@smtp4.fas.harvard.edu [140.247.30.84]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA17454 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 12:02:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from poodle-pc.deas.harvard.edu (poodle-pc.deas.harvard.edu [140.247.51.128]) by smtp4.fas.harvard.edu with SMTP id MAA05842 Message-Id: <200007061602.MAA05842@smtp4.fas.harvard.edu> To: mcquiggi@sfu.ca, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Questions: plan9.ini; NE2000 From: "Russ Cox" <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 12:01:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk 1. Any docs available on the syntax and options for the plan9.ini file? http://plan9.bell-labs.com/magic/man2html/8/plan9.ini 2. I have a Novell NE2000. It gets detected on boot but when I set up IP address, netmask and gateway to download the distribution from the Net, nothing happens. The box just sits there, no network traffic at all. Are there config restrictions on the card or something? As I said, it _does_ get detected. It's IRQ 9 and (I recall) 0x320 for the card address. Perhaps the IRQ is set wrong; perhaps you need the nodummyrr option. http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9dist/errata.html 3. Any docs on what gets written to the floppy after the initial boot? I find that if I start with a freshly formatted floppy, dd the image to it, it'll boot and start the install process fine, but the _second_ time I get messages similar to "boot device:". Choosing fd0!9PCFLOP.GZ seems to start the process but then I get a kernel panic. What gets written to the floppy? vgainfo.txt at boot time, and 9inst.cnf if you finish or stop. The maddening thing here is that even if I take the floppy to a DOS machine and remove the .nvr file that gets created, and reset all the files to their initial contents, that the floppy won't boot into the install properly again. Even re-doing the dd of the image onto the floppy and booting from it gives me the unworkable "boot from:" prompt. The .nvr file is part of the original boot image; don't remove it. Managing _all_ the files on the floppy using DOS is not necessarily a good idea either. 9load and root.vd need to be contiguous on the disk, and if DOS rewrites them, this might not be the case. They don't change anyway. It is, of course, safe to rewrite plan9.ini and vgadb to your heart's content. The only solution is to completely reformat the floppy (using fdformat under Linux), and re-copying the boot image. Then a boot of the floppy will start the normal install process again. There's something amiss in the Plan 9 floppy driver. It seems more likely that you did something differently when booting after using Linux to format the disk. In particular, some people have found that a cold boot is necessary; others have found that disabling any other floppy drives in the BIOS helps. If it turns out that it is the floppy image which is corrupted (i.e. the floppy doesn't boot using exactly the same procedure that it used to boot), I'd appreciate it if you could send me a copy of the image (from dd or something). Russ From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 6 16:35:40 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA24730 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 16:35:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from rodney.cnchost.com (rodney.concentric.net [207.155.252.4]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA24725 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 16:35:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from namaste.stricca.org (discordia-asy-126.rutgers.edu [128.6.251.126]) by rodney.cnchost.com id QAA11908; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 16:35:29 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.8] Message-ID: <200007062035.QAA11908@rodney.cnchost.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] /sys/src/cmd/spell FROM: pip@namaste.stricca.org REPLY-TO: pip@stricca.org Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 20:40:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk The man page of spell(1) seems inconsistent with the source for sprog and /rc/bin/spell, with respect to the '-a' flag, /rc/bin/spell does not recognize '-a' and hands off to deroff. If you 'fix' spell to recognize '-a' and pass it to sprog, it does, but it is not entirely clear what sprog does when aflag is set, circa line 530 in sprog.c, from a casual perusal of the source. That said, what is the correct way to label the output from spell with a tag of the (mis)spell occurrence ? Thanks. - pip From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 6 17:42:01 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA26163 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 17:42:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ohio.river.org (river.org [209.24.233.15]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA26159 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 17:41:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from ru@localhost) by ohio.river.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA12499; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 14:41:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 14:41:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200007062141.OAA12499@ohio.river.org> FROM: pip@namaste.stricca.org Subject: [9fans] /sys/src/cmd/spell To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk The man page of spell(1) seems inconsistent with the source for sprog and /rc/bin/spell, with respect to the '-a' flag, /rc/bin/spell does not recognize '-a' and hands off to deroff. If you 'fix' spell to recognize '-a' and pass it to sprog, it does, but it is not entirely clear what sprog does when aflag is set, circa line 530 in sprog.c, from a casual perusal of the source. That said, what is the correct way to label the output from spell with a tag of the (mis)spell occurrence ? Thanks. - pip From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 6 20:19:06 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA28397 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 20:19:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA28391 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 20:19:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kayfamily.demon.co.uk ([194.222.131.207]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 13ALr8-000HzI-0A for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 00:18:59 +0000 Received: from lonesome.localdomain (lonesome [192.168.42.11]) by kayfamily.demon.co.uk (Postfix) with SMTP id 54923B4B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 01:51:52 +0100 (BST) Received: by lonesome.localdomain (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Thu, 6 Jul 2000 17:15:59 +4100 Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 17:15:59 -0700 From: Andrew Kay <x3@kayfamily.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] SGI Indy CPU Server and u9fs Message-ID: <20000706171559.A4839@lonesome> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.2i Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Greetings, I have a Silicon Graphics Indy (R4600PC/100) that I would like to turn into a CPU/auth server however as far as I can tell there is no support for it in Plan9 version 3. I have downloaded the Indy CPU kernel boddle that was designed for Plan9 version 2 however the files that it requires don't seem to exist in version 2. Has anybody got an Indy CPU kernel or is working on one? If I got the Indy running as a Plan9 CPU/auth server would it be able to boot from it's disks or would it require a seperate file server. If it would require a seperate file server would it be possible to use an Indigo2 running IRIX 6.2 and u9fs or would it have to be a Plan9 machine running the file server kernel? Regards Andrew Kay From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 6 20:57:13 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA28911 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 20:57:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from trachyte.chigaku6.co.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.91.52]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA28907 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 20:57:08 -0400 (EDT) From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Message-Id: <200007070057.UAA28907@cse.psu.edu> To: plan9@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Subject: Re: [9fans] Acme Mail program Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 09:57:16 0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Well, no one answered this, then, I'll try it. However, I've had no release 3 standalone Plan 9 machine around me, this may be wrong... >/acme/mail/386/Mail gives me a > > Mail: can't open window ctl file: file does not exist You should not run this from command line, which would be run from acme. When I dispatch this command, I get the same error message. Can you send/receive mail by upas alone? Do you have fs, not 9pcfs just server for mail running, or did you set mail -c. Kenji From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 6 21:27:42 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA29462 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 21:27:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from get.freewire.net (get.freewire.net [195.184.229.250]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA29456 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 21:27:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from noos.fr (d2-s7-103-telehouse.mistral.co.uk [195.184.228.103]) by get.freewire.net (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA00972; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 02:15:37 +0100 Message-ID: <3965320F.D8209003@noos.fr> Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 02:27:43 +0100 From: Boyd Roberts <boyd@noos.fr> Organization: Psycho Basket Case Outpatients Clinic X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.10 i686) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <gwyn@arl.army.mil> CC: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: fd2path References: <8ji3qr$3q2$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <39642DF0.F51183B9@noos.fr> <39649BC1.47D980B3@arl.army.mil> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Douglas A. Gwyn wrote: > > Russ suggests that the intended change to the interface would > result not just in an indication that the buffer was too small, > but rather in an exact measure of how much too small, so that > looping would not be required (unless perhaps the path was > changing underfoot?). > look, when i said 'looping' it's once around, it falls out nicely. a little bird told me that on inferno fd2path() returns a char *. > Of course, the right way in an ideal environment would be for > the service call to return (a handle to, or a capability for) > an object that is already constructed, so your program doesn't > have to help construct it by supplying a buffer etc., but that > isn't built into the Plan9 architecture. yeah 'persistant objects'. ken calls them files. -- But I doubt if our present system [U.S. Army] will produce such an individual. They are too: _abrasive_, opinionated, undiplomatic, nonconformist, and effective. -- Colonel David H. Hackworth (U.S. Army, Ret.) From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 6 22:15:46 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA00276 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 22:15:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA00266 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 22:15:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007070215.WAA00266@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] SO for plan9? From: "rob pike" <rob@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 22:15:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Some time in early 1981, Rob came to visit, saw the updated demo, and on his return to Bell Labs, stole the name to christen the similar beast that he and Bart Locanthi (and Dave Ditzel?) were working on. All correct, even the ? part (Ditzel later dropped out), except that 'stole' is inflammatory. We asked John Seamons for permission to use the name, and he gave it. -rob From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 7 01:35:00 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA02903 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 01:34:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from trachyte.chigaku6.co.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.91.52]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA02899 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 01:34:53 -0400 (EDT) From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Message-Id: <200007070534.BAA02899@cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] Watch your top line once more Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 14:35:00 0900 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk When you are going to reply to this mailing-list using Acme Mail. two cents from my negative experience! ☺ Kenji From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 7 01:41:48 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA03095 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 01:41:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA03091 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 01:41:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fuji.homenet (pool-207-205-223-243.pbgh.grid.net [207.205.223.243]) by smtp6.mindspring.com (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA11935 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 01:41:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fuji.homenet (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fuji.homenet (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA19425 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 01:41:39 -0400 Message-Id: <200007070541.BAA19425@fuji.homenet> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Brightstar PPC ipEngine Boxes? Reply-to: Stephen Wynne <stevemw@place.org> Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 01:41:36 -0400 From: Stephen Wynne <stevemw@mindspring.com> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Is anyone outside the Labs experimenting with the PowerPC hardware they mentioned at USENIX from http://www.brightstareng.com/ yet? I'd like to build a firewall with something like this. Do we have what we need to run this in the latest distribution? From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 7 02:15:17 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA03535 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 02:15:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (caldo.demon.co.uk [194.222.207.148]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA03517 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 02:15:08 -0400 (EDT) From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk Message-Id: <200007070615.CAA03517@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Watch your top line once more Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 07:15:07 0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-jvexlyibhyvkimikqjndethusl" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-jvexlyibhyvkimikqjndethusl Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the reply-to was removed, perhaps to stop the duplicate messages (which anyway seem to have stopped), and acme and others therefore reply to the from: not the list. --upas-jvexlyibhyvkimikqjndethusl Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from finch-punt-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.36]) by lavoro; Fri Jul 7 07:10:50 BST 2000 Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 962948147:11:10926:0; Fri, 07 Jul 2000 05:35:47 GMT Received: from claven.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.3.50]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1027585; 7 Jul 2000 5:35 GMT Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA02935; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 01:35:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by claven.cse.psu.edu (bulk_mailer v1.5); Fri, 7 Jul 2000 01:35:08 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA02903 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 01:34:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from trachyte.chigaku6.co.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.91.52]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA02899 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 01:34:53 -0400 (EDT) From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Message-Id: <200007070534.BAA02899@cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] Watch your top line once more Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 14:35:00 0900 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by cse.psu.edu id BAA02935 When you are going to reply to this mailing-list using Acme Mail. two cents from my negative experience! =E2=98=BA Kenji --upas-jvexlyibhyvkimikqjndethusl-- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 7 04:52:54 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA04948 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 04:52:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA04944 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 04:52:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13ATsA-0000yE-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 07 Jul 2000 09:52:34 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 08:32:40 GMT From: Alt <alter@cybercafe.com.ua> Message-ID: <3964EB12.5BF8614E@cybercafe.com.ua> Organization: KyivNet ISP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <39634553.4B2EC94A@cybercafe.com.ua>, <962873898.138628@jet.ncc.icyb.kiev.ua> Subject: [9fans] Re: Plan-9 is too archic. ... yet. Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Artem 'Thomas' Hlushko wrote: > hi! > > Alt <alter@cybercafe.com.ua> wrote: > > > But ... it's do not allow my requairements, at the moment. > it's designed not for your requairements > > What is my requirements ? > > > Plan-9 is olded ! :( > write something new > > I feels sorry, that haven't find it few years ago. :( > > > What I would like to see ? > > 1. Absolutely new User Interface. > > 2. Multidimensional information resources (files) system. > > 3. New World-Wide (Global) information storage, and its search > > technology. > > 4. Technologies of dynamic recompilation of code. > do you think 9fans will materialize your drug dreams? > relax > Your opinion is your opinion. Please, "don't answer" for me and for "9fans". > > > Many other things which about I criticized UNIX, yet done in Plan-9. > it's easy critisize... What is difficult ? to "dati wiedpavine darutchnya" ? > > show your stuff > > bye I woobstche P.N.H. Ya eto pisal ne dlya tebya. Do, you know, why I hate this country, because there is a lot of people like you. Do you know why I quite from the K.P.I. , because there is a lot professors like you are! And I don't want to live between such men, as you are. > From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 7 04:53:04 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA04972 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 04:53:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA04956 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 04:52:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13ATsB-0000yL-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 07 Jul 2000 09:52:35 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 08:33:04 GMT From: Alt <alter@cybercafe.com.ua> Message-ID: <3964F2E9.961F0BBE@cybercafe.com.ua> Organization: KyivNet ISP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r References: <39634553.4B2EC94A@cybercafe.com.ua>, <8k1f57$1a9r$1@pandora.alkar.net> Subject: [9fans] Re: Plan-9 is too archaic. ... yet. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by cse.psu.edu id EAA04958 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Wladimir Mutel wrote: > Alt <alter@cybercafe.com.ua> wrote: > > > But ... it's do not allow my requairements, at the moment. > > Yes, exactly, you want from this OS to give you something it never > promised to have. No, look but until I have read an article about Plan-9 (http:/www.itc.kiev.ua/ko) (note: it's in Russian :( ) I I thought that nobody try to seriously step over UNIX concepts. (Actually all modern OS it's a UNIX but more or less distorted :) But I find out that there is the Plan-9 where no stupid libraries. Where any application could be activized though its STDIN, where no stupid overlapped protocols. Where, where, where. ... I told I is that which I been looking for. However, Plan-9 have UNIX-like user interface. With all of it's faults and preferences. Plan-9 got too mach from UNIX. :( As for end of 80'th Plan-9 was really revolutionary, as vor today not so. I hope this time I wrote clear. > > > > Plan-9 is olded ! :( > > 'Obsolete', you mean ? Yes. Exactly. May be you didn't know but in Kyiv is a very strange dialect of English. :))) > Not more obsolete than Unix is. Yes. I like to say that better not is the best. > > Use NT if you eager for smth 'New' :> > 8-P > > > I feels sorry, that haven't find it few years ago. :( > > > What I would like to see ? > > 1. Absolutely new User Interface. > > 2. Multidimensional information resources (files) system. > > 3. New World-Wide (Global) information storage, and its search > > technology. > > 4. Technologies of dynamic recompilation of code. > > Brrrr... Why do you suspect Plan9 to provide you with this ? Perhaps you don't understood what was caused me to write first article, I think I have explain it above. > > You should create all this by yourself under any OS. No, UNIX ideology restrict me. > > Or you may switch to any OS that has these facilities now. > > > Many other things which about I criticized UNIX, yet done in Plan-9. > > Plan9 is not 'better Unix', as FAQ reads. > Its architecture and facilities implied by one yet have to be > researched by you. Somewhere it is completely non-UNIX (and of > course it does not give you topics 1..4 right out of the box) ! > > (p.s. - and learn English better, please :>) > Oh, sthanx for advice, so-o-o-o much :), same you.... ;-/> the words is not a language yet. > > -- > mwg@alkar.net, 340044, 7442333, 7786458 - Where are you from ? (Kyiv)550-8285(Misha) From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 7 07:08:07 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA06292 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 07:08:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA06288 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 07:08:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13AVql-00029u-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 07 Jul 2000 11:59:15 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 10:51:57 GMT From: Wladimir Mutel <mwg@alkar.net> Message-ID: <8k4cdn$19k2$2@pandora.alkar.net> Organization: Alkar-Teleport News server Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r References: <39634553.4B2EC94A@cybercafe.com.ua>, <962873898.138628@jet.ncc.icyb.kiev.ua>, <3964EB12.5BF8614E@cybercafe.com.ua> Subject: [9fans] Re: Plan-9 is too archic. ... yet. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by cse.psu.edu id HAA06289 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Alt <alter@cybercafe.com.ua> wrote: >> > But ... it's do not allow my requairements, at the moment. >> it's designed not for your requairements > What is my requirements ? They seem to be your famous topics 1..4 you expected to see in Plan9. >> > 1. Absolutely new User Interface. >> > 2. Multidimensional information resources (files) system. >> > 3. New World-Wide (Global) information storage, and its search >> > technology. >> > 4. Technologies of dynamic recompilation of code. >> > Many other things which about I criticized UNIX, yet done in Plan-9. >> it's easy critisize... > Do, you know, why I hate this country, > because there is a lot of people like you. > Do you know why I quite from the K.P.I. , > because there is a lot professors like you are! > And I don't want to live between such men, as you are. And it is even easier to hate, than to criticize. The country, the university and the people - are they definitely bad, you think ? -- mwg@alkar.net, 340044, 7442333, 7786458 - From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 7 07:22:57 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA06560 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 07:22:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA06556 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 07:22:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13AW6F-0002SJ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 07 Jul 2000 12:15:15 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:02:35 GMT From: Wladimir Mutel <mwg@alkar.net> Message-ID: <8k4c5r$19k2$1@pandora.alkar.net> Organization: Alkar-Teleport News server Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r References: <39634553.4B2EC94A@cybercafe.com.ua>, <8k1f57$1a9r$1@pandora.alkar.net>, <3964F2E9.961F0BBE@cybercafe.com.ua> Subject: [9fans] Re: Plan-9 is too archaic. ... yet. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by cse.psu.edu id HAA06557 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Alt <alter@cybercafe.com.ua> wrote: > However, Plan-9 have UNIX-like user interface. Where ? In command-line level - perhaps. Hope, you do not mean 'acme' or 'plumbing' ideas are Unix-like ? :> > As for end of 80'th Plan-9 was really revolutionary, > as vor today not so. What OS is enough revolutionary for you today ? :> > I hope this time I wrote clear. Yes. You see benefits of new OS architecture, but the things you want to build on its basis seem to be dictated by your needs arisen in traditional OS. >> Not more obsolete than Unix is. > Yes. > I like to say that better not is the best. Love what you have, if you do not have what you better love. >> > What I would like to see ? >> > 1. Absolutely new User Interface. >> > 2. Multidimensional information resources (files) system. >> > 3. New World-Wide (Global) information storage, and its search >> > technology. >> > 4. Technologies of dynamic recompilation of code. >> >> Brrrr... Why do you suspect Plan9 to provide you with this ? > Perhaps you don't understood what was caused me to write first article, > I think I have explain it above. But why do you dream to see features 1..4 under the very Plan9, not under another OS ? >> You should create all this by yourself under any OS. > No, UNIX ideology restrict me. In what ways ? It seems to me that is not Unix ideology's fault, but mostly your one. It seems you do not have exact notion of what you want. Did you ever try to develop 1..4 by yourself ? Or at least to design them technically, to some implementation-permitting level ? > Where are you from ? Dnepr ! :> -- mwg@alkar.net, 340044, 7442333, 7786458 - From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 7 07:23:53 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA06665 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 07:23:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from minster.cs.york.ac.uk (minster.cs.york.ac.uk [144.32.40.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA06656 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 07:23:44 -0400 (EDT) From: ianb@cs.york.ac.uk Received: (from ianb@localhost) by pc095.cs.york.ac.uk (8.9.3/client981223.PNT) id MAA20605; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 12:20:55 +0100 Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 12:20:55 +0100 Message-Id: <200007071120.MAA20605@pc095.cs.york.ac.uk> To: "Russ Cox" <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com>, 9fans@cse.psu.edu, ishwar@pali.cps.cmich.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] cpu/auth server Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk > can't authenticate using telnet. I've now got it working -- I made a typo when creating /rc/bin/service.auth/il556 and tcp567. Thanks to Russ and Ish for their help. Hope that making the file server will be easier ;-) Ian From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 7 08:38:40 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA07775 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 08:38:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA07771 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 08:38:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13AXIl-0005kY-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 07 Jul 2000 13:32:15 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 12:20:23 GMT From: cckk99@263.net Message-ID: <8k4ge4$hot$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Subject: [9fans] How to use ASUS V3000ZX in plan 9 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Hi, everyone. I am using a ASUS V3000ZX video adaptor. It's chip is riva128zx. Can somebody show me how to add entry to vgadb, so the rio can run ? Thanks. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 7 08:49:07 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA08080 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 08:49:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA08075 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 08:49:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13AXIm-0005kk-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 07 Jul 2000 13:32:16 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 12:29:08 GMT From: Alt <alter@cybercafe.com.ua> Message-ID: <39650D7E.B7815996@cybercafe.com.ua> Organization: KyivNet ISP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <39634553.4B2EC94A@cybercafe.com.ua>, <39638A21.CB7E6A30@arl.army.mil> Subject: [9fans] Re: Plan-9 is too archic. ... yet. Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Douglas A. Gwyn wrote: > > > Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ oh-ho Pardon me, but are you sure, that you follow the restrictions, lied by Plan9's license ? > Alt wrote: > > What I would like to see ? > > 1. Absolutely new User Interface. > > 2. Multidimensional information resources (files) system. > > 3. New World-Wide (Global) information storage, and its search > > technology. > > 4. Technologies of dynamic recompilation of code. > > Feel free to implement these yourself. Thank you so much. How, I haven't understood that I can implement it ? :) Between, what are you mean, under your phrase ? 1. I can implement it with a Plan9. 2. "Don't .Luck my/our brains, with your ..." 3. If I need it have to do it. 4. Anything else. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 7 10:37:57 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA10243 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 10:37:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA10238 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 10:37:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13AZCa-00008d-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 07 Jul 2000 15:34:00 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 14:20:21 GMT From: Alt <alter@cybercafe.com.ua> Message-ID: <3965D788.615AE912@cybercafe.com.ua> Organization: KyivNet ISP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r References: <962873898.138628@jet.ncc.icyb.kiev.ua>, <3964EB12.5BF8614E@cybercafe.com.ua>, <8k4cdn$19k2$2@pandora.alkar.net> Subject: [9fans] Re: Plan-9 is too archic. ... yet. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by cse.psu.edu id KAA10239 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Wladimir Mutel wrote: > Alt <alter@cybercafe.com.ua> wrote: > > >> > But ... it's do not allow my requairements, at the moment. > >> it's designed not for your requairements > > > What is my requirements ? > > They seem to be your famous topics 1..4 you expected to see > in Plan9. > Oh, may be it was seems like this. But I mean something wider. > > >> > 1. Absolutely new User Interface. > >> > 2. Multidimensional information resources (files) system. > >> > 3. New World-Wide (Global) information storage, and its search > >> > technology. > >> > 4. Technologies of dynamic recompilation of code. > > >> > Many other things which about I criticized UNIX, yet done in Plan-9. > >> it's easy critisize... > > > Do, you know, why I hate this country, > > because there is a lot of people like you. > > > Do you know why I quite from the K.P.I. , > > because there is a lot professors like you are! > > > And I don't want to live between such men, as you are. > > And it is even easier to hate, than to criticize. > What do I have to do ? Looks like we have to move in ukr.politics or in soc.culture.ukrainian. > > The country, the university and the people - > are they definitely bad, you think ? > How I can respect the peoples. Who say "yes" on the referendum for the items which they don't know what is it. And who vote for the president who say: "I was a bad president but I will be good when you'll elect me again." Absurd ! If you w'd like to answer for this item do it in soc.cultre.ukrasinian About high education.... I have seen am _obsolete_ robots, machine tools, and equipment there ... I saw crazy old professors. I saw the bribe flows. But nothing modern !!! > > -- > mwg@alkar.net, 340044, 7442333, 7786458 - From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 7 10:47:31 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA10600 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 10:47:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from pali.cps.cmich.edu (pali.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.131.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA10594 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 10:47:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from ishwar@localhost) by pali.cps.cmich.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA21428 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 10:46:36 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ishwar) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 10:46:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Ish Rattan <ishwar@pali.cps.cmich.edu> Message-Id: <200007071446.KAA21428@pali.cps.cmich.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] u9fs Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Has any one installed u9fs on a UNIX box? I am looking for instructions to do that. - ishwar From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 7 11:01:23 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA11050 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:01:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA11045 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:01:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007071501.LAA11045@cse.psu.edu> From: "Russ Cox" <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:00:58 -0400 To: cckk99@263.net, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] How to use ASUS V3000ZX in plan 9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk I don't believe the RIVA chips are supported yet, unfortunately, so there'd be a fair bit more work than just editing vgadb. Russ From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 7 11:05:50 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA11312 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:05:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from marlborough.cnchost.com (marlborough.concentric.net [207.155.248.14]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA11301 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:05:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from namaste.stricca.org (discordia-asy-116.rutgers.edu [128.6.251.116]) by marlborough.cnchost.com id LAA13643; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:05:35 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.8] Message-ID: <200007071505.LAA13643@marlborough.cnchost.com> To: stevemw@mindspring.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Brightstar PPC ipEngine Boxes? FROM: pip@namaste.stricca.org REPLY-TO: pip@stricca.org Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 15:10:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-cehljqqmmfbokoicyjdiqfkcnv" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-cehljqqmmfbokoicyjdiqfkcnv Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes. We are going to use their nanoEngine SA-1110 board for a project here at Rutgers. We were originally going to use the Hitachi CardEngine, but run into supply problems. - pip --upas-cehljqqmmfbokoicyjdiqfkcnv Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from cse.psu.edu (claven.cse.psu.edu [130.203.3.50]) by hood.cnchost.com id BAA14879; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 01:41:56 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP MX 1.15] Errors-To: <owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA03116; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 01:41:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by claven.cse.psu.edu (bulk_mailer v1.5); Fri, 7 Jul 2000 01:41:52 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA03095 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 01:41:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA03091 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 01:41:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fuji.homenet (pool-207-205-223-243.pbgh.grid.net [207.205.223.243]) by smtp6.mindspring.com (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA11935 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 01:41:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fuji.homenet (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fuji.homenet (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA19425 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 01:41:39 -0400 Message-Id: <200007070541.BAA19425@fuji.homenet> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Brightstar PPC ipEngine Boxes? Reply-to: Stephen Wynne <stevemw@place.org> Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 01:41:36 -0400 From: Stephen Wynne <stevemw@mindspring.com> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Is anyone outside the Labs experimenting with the PowerPC hardware they mentioned at USENIX from http://www.brightstareng.com/ yet? I'd like to build a firewall with something like this. Do we have what we need to run this in the latest distribution? --upas-cehljqqmmfbokoicyjdiqfkcnv-- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 7 11:22:06 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA11862 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:22:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from vivido.hci-net ([212.240.227.6]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA11857 for <9fans@cs.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:21:59 -0400 (EDT) From: forsyth@vitanuova.com Message-Id: <200007071521.LAA11857@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Brightstar PPC ipEngine Boxes? Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 16:22:04 0100 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-fojnkxunazleclpeykjgvgcuie" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-fojnkxunazleclpeykjgvgcuie Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>Yes. We are going to use their nanoEngine SA-1110 >>board for a project here at Rutgers. We were originally i'm currently updating the arm/strongarm compiler. i should make it available on monday, assuming a drop in interruption frequency. of course, the sa1100 is not powerpc, so none of this answer's stephen's question. we have a powerpc brightstar at vita but only scratched the surface of a port before Other Things intervened. --upas-fojnkxunazleclpeykjgvgcuie Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@vitanuova.com id 962982674:10:01292:5; Fri, 07 Jul 2000 15:11:14 GMT Received: from claven.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.3.50]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1115889; 7 Jul 2000 15:11 GMT Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA11338; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:06:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by claven.cse.psu.edu (bulk_mailer v1.5); Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:05:55 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA11312 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:05:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from marlborough.cnchost.com (marlborough.concentric.net [207.155.248.14]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA11301 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:05:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from namaste.stricca.org (discordia-asy-116.rutgers.edu [128.6.251.116]) by marlborough.cnchost.com id LAA13643; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:05:35 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.8] Message-ID: <200007071505.LAA13643@marlborough.cnchost.com> To: mindspring.com!stevemw To: cse.psu.edu!9fans Subject: Re: [9fans] Brightstar PPC ipEngine Boxes? REPLY-TO: stricca.org!pip Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 15:10:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-cehljqqmmfbokoicyjdiqfkcnv" Sender: cse.psu.edu!owner-9fans Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-cehljqqmmfbokoicyjdiqfkcnv Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes. We are going to use their nanoEngine SA-1110 board for a project here at Rutgers. We were originally going to use the Hitachi CardEngine, but run into supply problems. - pip --upas-cehljqqmmfbokoicyjdiqfkcnv Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from cse.psu.edu (claven.cse.psu.edu [130.203.3.50]) by hood.cnchost.com id BAA14879; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 01:41:56 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP MX 1.15] Errors-To: <owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA03116; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 01:41:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by claven.cse.psu.edu (bulk_mailer v1.5); Fri, 7 Jul 2000 01:41:52 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA03095 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 01:41:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA03091 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 01:41:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fuji.homenet (pool-207-205-223-243.pbgh.grid.net [207.205.223.243]) by smtp6.mindspring.com (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA11935 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 01:41:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fuji.homenet (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fuji.homenet (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA19425 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 01:41:39 -0400 Message-Id: <200007070541.BAA19425@fuji.homenet> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Brightstar PPC ipEngine Boxes? Reply-to: Stephen Wynne <stevemw@place.org> Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 01:41:36 -0400 From: Stephen Wynne <stevemw@mindspring.com> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Is anyone outside the Labs experimenting with the PowerPC hardware they mentioned at USENIX from http://www.brightstareng.com/ yet? I'd like to build a firewall with something like this. Do we have what we need to run this in the latest distribution? --upas-cehljqqmmfbokoicyjdiqfkcnv-- --upas-fojnkxunazleclpeykjgvgcuie-- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 7 11:23:42 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA11998 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:23:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA11989 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:23:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13AZrg-0000dH-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 07 Jul 2000 16:16:28 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 15:04:50 GMT From: Alt <alter@cybercafe.com.ua> Message-ID: <3965D3F5.832E19D4@cybercafe.com.ua> Organization: KyivNet ISP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r References: <8k1f57$1a9r$1@pandora.alkar.net>, <3964F2E9.961F0BBE@cybercafe.com.ua>, <8k4c5r$19k2$1@pandora.alkar.net> Subject: [9fans] Re: Plan-9 is too archaic. ... yet. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by cse.psu.edu id LAA11991 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Wladimir Mutel wrote: > Alt <alter@cybercafe.com.ua> wrote: > > > However, Plan-9 have UNIX-like user interface. > > Where ? In command-line level - perhaps. Yes. Why I have to write echo "reboot" > reboot ? I prefer to write this.reboot = reboot > > Hope, you do not mean 'acme' or 'plumbing' > ideas are Unix-like ? :> It is very small step. > > > > As for end of 80'th Plan-9 was really revolutionary, > > as vor today not so. > > What OS is enough revolutionary for you today ? :> > No one. > > > I hope this time I wrote clear. > > Yes. You see benefits of new OS architecture, but the things you > want to build on its basis seem to be dictated by your needs > arisen in traditional OS. > Something like this. :) > > >> Not more obsolete than Unix is. > > > Yes. > > I like to say that better not is the best. > > Love what you have, if you do not have what you better love. > Almost the Bible. > > >> > What I would like to see ? > >> > 1. Absolutely new User Interface. > >> > 2. Multidimensional information resources (files) system. > >> > 3. New World-Wide (Global) information storage, and its search > >> > technology. > >> > 4. Technologies of dynamic recompilation of code. > >> > >> Brrrr... Why do you suspect Plan9 to provide you with this ? > > > Perhaps you don't understood what was caused me to write first article, > > I think I have explain it above. > > But why do you dream to see features 1..4 under the very Plan9, > not under another OS ? > UNIX is not an OS yet, it's un ideology. and I view at the Plan9 as a pretender to be a ground of the new ideology. > > >> You should create all this by yourself under any OS. > > > No, UNIX ideology restrict me. > > In what ways ? It seems to me that is not Unix ideology's fault, > but mostly your one. It seems you do not have exact notion of what > you want. Did you ever try to develop 1..4 by yourself ? Or at > least to design them technically, to some implementation-permitting > level ? > Did. And I working at the new OS yet. > > > Where are you from ? > > Dnepr ! :> > Oh, the Dnepropetrovsk. I see. It's where from Lasarenko and Kutchma came. :( > > -- > mwg@alkar.net, 340044, 7442333, 7786458 - From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 7 11:26:39 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA12192 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:26:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from akbar.nevex.com (gate.nevex.com [207.245.2.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA12186 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:26:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from akbar.nevex.com (IDENT:steve@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by akbar.nevex.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01346; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:26:15 -0400 Message-Id: <200007071526.LAA01346@akbar.nevex.com> To: Ish Rattan <ishwar@pali.cps.cmich.edu> cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] u9fs In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 Jul 2000 10:46:36 EDT." <200007071446.KAA21428@pali.cps.cmich.edu> Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 11:26:15 -0400 From: Steve Kotsopoulos <steve@nevex.com> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Ish Rattan wrote: > Has any one installed u9fs on a UNIX box? I am looking for > instructions to do that. Here are the config entries on my RedHat Linux system: % grep u9fs /etc/services u9fs 564/tcp % grep u9fs /etc/inetd.conf u9fs stream tcp nowait root /usr/sbin/tcpd /local/lib/u9fs % cat /etc/hosts.equiv 10.1.1.3 10.1.1.8 10.1.1.9 If it doesn't work for you, the first thing to do is compile u9fs with debugging enabled; in u9fs.c change line 11 to say: #define DBG(f) f The debug messages will go to the file defined in the makefile see the manpage at http://plan9.bell-labs.com/magic/man2html/4/u9fs for more details From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 7 11:37:18 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA12559 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:37:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from valiant.cnchost.com (valiant.concentric.net [207.155.252.9]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA12555 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:37:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from namaste.stricca.org (discordia-asy-116.rutgers.edu [128.6.251.116]) by valiant.cnchost.com id LAA16125; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:37:00 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.8] Message-ID: <200007071537.LAA16125@valiant.cnchost.com> To: forsyth@vitanuova.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Brightstar PPC ipEngine Boxes? FROM: pip@namaste.stricca.org REPLY-TO: pip@stricca.org Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 15:42:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-pgixbzfeofzfmilwowrkcwziue" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-pgixbzfeofzfmilwowrkcwziue Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oh, I guess I should have made it clear that our use of the BSE nanoEngine boards is _not_ to run Plan 9. We are using them for a "ubiquitous computing" project, and they'll be running eEK. - pip --upas-pgixbzfeofzfmilwowrkcwziue Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from cse.psu.edu (claven.cse.psu.edu [130.203.3.50]) by invincible.cnchost.com id LAA11769; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:22:15 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP MX 1.15] Errors-To: <owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA11882; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:22:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by claven.cse.psu.edu (bulk_mailer v1.5); Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:22:11 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA11862 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:22:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from vivido.hci-net ([212.240.227.6]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA11857 for <9fans@cs.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:21:59 -0400 (EDT) From: forsyth@vitanuova.com Message-Id: <200007071521.LAA11857@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Brightstar PPC ipEngine Boxes? Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 16:22:04 0100 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-fojnkxunazleclpeykjgvgcuie" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-fojnkxunazleclpeykjgvgcuie Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>Yes. We are going to use their nanoEngine SA-1110 >>board for a project here at Rutgers. We were originally i'm currently updating the arm/strongarm compiler. i should make it available on monday, assuming a drop in interruption frequency. of course, the sa1100 is not powerpc, so none of this answer's stephen's question. we have a powerpc brightstar at vita but only scratched the surface of a port before Other Things intervened. --upas-fojnkxunazleclpeykjgvgcuie Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@vitanuova.com id 962982674:10:01292:5; Fri, 07 Jul 2000 15:11:14 GMT Received: from claven.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.3.50]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1115889; 7 Jul 2000 15:11 GMT Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA11338; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:06:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by claven.cse.psu.edu (bulk_mailer v1.5); Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:05:55 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA11312 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:05:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from marlborough.cnchost.com (marlborough.concentric.net [207.155.248.14]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA11301 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:05:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from namaste.stricca.org (discordia-asy-116.rutgers.edu [128.6.251.116]) by marlborough.cnchost.com id LAA13643; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:05:35 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.8] Message-ID: <200007071505.LAA13643@marlborough.cnchost.com> To: mindspring.com!stevemw To: cse.psu.edu!9fans Subject: Re: [9fans] Brightstar PPC ipEngine Boxes? REPLY-TO: stricca.org!pip Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 15:10:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-cehljqqmmfbokoicyjdiqfkcnv" Sender: cse.psu.edu!owner-9fans Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-cehljqqmmfbokoicyjdiqfkcnv Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes. We are going to use their nanoEngine SA-1110 board for a project here at Rutgers. We were originally going to use the Hitachi CardEngine, but run into supply problems. - pip --upas-cehljqqmmfbokoicyjdiqfkcnv Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from cse.psu.edu (claven.cse.psu.edu [130.203.3.50]) by hood.cnchost.com id BAA14879; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 01:41:56 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP MX 1.15] Errors-To: <owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA03116; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 01:41:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by claven.cse.psu.edu (bulk_mailer v1.5); Fri, 7 Jul 2000 01:41:52 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA03095 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 01:41:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA03091 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 01:41:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fuji.homenet (pool-207-205-223-243.pbgh.grid.net [207.205.223.243]) by smtp6.mindspring.com (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA11935 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 01:41:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fuji.homenet (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fuji.homenet (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA19425 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 01:41:39 -0400 Message-Id: <200007070541.BAA19425@fuji.homenet> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Brightstar PPC ipEngine Boxes? Reply-to: Stephen Wynne <stevemw@place.org> Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 01:41:36 -0400 From: Stephen Wynne <stevemw@mindspring.com> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Is anyone outside the Labs experimenting with the PowerPC hardware they mentioned at USENIX from http://www.brightstareng.com/ yet? I'd like to build a firewall with something like this. Do we have what we need to run this in the latest distribution? --upas-cehljqqmmfbokoicyjdiqfkcnv-- --upas-fojnkxunazleclpeykjgvgcuie-- --upas-pgixbzfeofzfmilwowrkcwziue-- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 7 12:08:02 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA13374 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 12:08:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA13370 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 12:07:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13Aaei-0001AL-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 07 Jul 2000 17:07:08 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 16:01:23 GMT From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <gwyn@arl.army.mil> Message-ID: <3965F1EB.79F9CEB6@arl.army.mil> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <39634553.4B2EC94A@cybercafe.com.ua>, <39638A21.CB7E6A30@arl.army.mil>, <39650D7E.B7815996@cybercafe.com.ua> Subject: [9fans] Re: Plan-9 is too archic. ... yet. Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Alt wrote: > Douglas A. Gwyn wrote: > > Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ oh-ho > Pardon me, but are you sure, that you > follow the restrictions, lied by Plan9's license ? Yes, asshole. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 7 12:20:36 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA13807 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 12:20:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from minster.cs.york.ac.uk (minster.cs.york.ac.uk [144.32.40.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA13799 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 12:20:30 -0400 (EDT) From: ianb@cs.york.ac.uk Received: (from ianb@localhost) by pc095.cs.york.ac.uk (8.9.3/client981223.PNT) id RAA24960; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 17:16:20 +0100 Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 17:16:20 +0100 Message-Id: <200007071616.RAA24960@pc095.cs.york.ac.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] u9fs Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk I have. It was straightforward, as from the manual page. Except that the authentication is not mentioned. It is all done using .rhosts for each user. Ian On Fri, 7 Jul 2000 10:46:36 -0400 (EDT) owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu wrote: > >Has any one installed u9fs on a UNIX box? I am looking for >instructions to do that. > >- ishwar From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 7 12:27:28 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA14114 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 12:27:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA14110 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 12:27:23 -0400 (EDT) From: miller@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk Received: from hamnavoe.demon.co.uk ([158.152.225.204]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 13AayH-00054d-0X for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 17:27:21 +0100 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 17:26:27 BST Subject: Re: [9fans] Brightstar PPC ipEngine Boxes? Message-Id: <E13AayH-00054d-0X@anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Stephen Wynne <stevemw@place.org> writes: > Is anyone outside the Labs experimenting with the PowerPC hardware > they mentioned at USENIX from http://www.brightstareng.com/ yet? I'd > like to build a firewall with something like this. Do we have what we > need to run this in the latest distribution? Yes -- I'm the one who mentioned the BrightStar ipengine (powerpc) at Usenix, and I'm "outside the Labs". I hope to have Plan 9 running on it fairly soon. -- Richard Miller From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 7 12:37:57 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA14471 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 12:37:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA14466 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 12:37:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13AaxH-0001MG-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 07 Jul 2000 17:26:19 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 16:20:13 GMT From: Wladimir Mutel <mwg@alkar.net> Message-ID: <8k4us1$1h9q$1@pandora.alkar.net> Organization: Alkar-Teleport News server Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r References: <3964F2E9.961F0BBE@cybercafe.com.ua>, <8k4c5r$19k2$1@pandora.alkar.net>, <3965D3F5.832E19D4@cybercafe.com.ua> Subject: [9fans] Re: Plan-9 is too archaic. ... yet. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by cse.psu.edu id MAA14467 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Alt <alter@cybercafe.com.ua> wrote: >> > However, Plan-9 have UNIX-like user interface. >> Where ? In command-line level - perhaps. > Yes. > Why I have to write echo "reboot" > reboot ? > I prefer to write > this.reboot = reboot Plan9 had not yet accumulated enough complicacy to manage it by C++ or other OO- means. I was wondering too why there is no C++ in Plan9 base. I realized gradually that with low and well-organized Plan9 complexity, plain C is enough for it, just like it was for Unix at the beginning. >> Hope, you do not mean 'acme' or 'plumbing' >> ideas are Unix-like ? :> > It is very small step. Too large steps may be destructive too. >> >> > What I would like to see ? >> >> > 1. Absolutely new User Interface. >> >> > 2. Multidimensional information resources (files) system. >> >> > 3. New World-Wide (Global) information storage, and its search >> >> > technology. >> >> > 4. Technologies of dynamic recompilation of code. > UNIX is not an OS yet, it's un ideology. > and I view at the Plan9 as a pretender to be a ground of the new ideology. Yes Plan9 is revolutionary in ideology. But not in aspects 1..4 you would like to see there. -- mwg@alkar.net, 340044, 7442333, 7786458 - From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 7 14:18:58 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA17131 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 14:18:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA17116 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 14:18:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007071818.OAA17116@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] /sys/src/cmd/spell From: "rob pike" <rob@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 14:18:37 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk The man page of spell(1) seems inconsistent with the source for sprog and /rc/bin/spell, with respect to the '-a' flag, The man page is wrong. The -a flag is passed to sprog by acme's spell program (/acme/bin/aspell). It expects the input to be in the right form, properly labeled, and preserves it on output. Spell does nothing of the kind. The simplest fix is to remove -a from the man page, which I've done locally, until a better architecture (that is, one that doesn't use deroff) comes to mind. -rob From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 7 14:26:26 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA17434 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 14:26:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from marge.cyber-dyne.com (root@marge.cyber-dyne.com [207.189.172.1]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA17430 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 14:26:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cyber-dyne.com (IDENT:root@rac0K.cyber-dyne.com [207.189.172.170]) by marge.cyber-dyne.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA17740 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:26:18 -0700 Received: (from randolph@localhost) by cyber-dyne.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA10277 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:26:17 -0700 Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:26:17 -0700 From: Randolph Fritz <randolph@cyber-dyne.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Loosely-coupled multi-processor CPU servers? Message-ID: <20000707112617.B9925@cyber-dyne.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk This discussion brought me to a problem I've been looking at for a while: I've been studying the problem of building a vest-pocket rendering farm. For my purposes, I'd like a board or array of small boards with perhaps 16 very fast, cost-effective processors, each with perhaps 128 or 256MB of RAM, and a fast interconnect--30MB/sec or more. Is this--or module-level parts to build it--an off-the shelf item? -- Randolph Fritz Eugene, Oregon, USA From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 7 14:59:25 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA18381 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 14:59:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from bromine.myriadgate.net (openbsd.myriadgate.net [139.142.42.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA18376 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 14:59:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 17349 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2000 18:56:08 -0000 Received: from xenon.myriadgate.net (HELO mail.usask.ca) (andrey@192.168.120.7) by bromine.myriadgate.net with SMTP; 7 Jul 2000 18:56:08 -0000 Message-ID: <396627C7.DA2FF348@mail.usask.ca> Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 12:56:07 -0600 From: Andrey Mirtchovski <aam396@mail.usask.ca> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.11 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Loosely-coupled multi-processor CPU servers? References: <20000707112617.B9925@cyber-dyne.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk I'd like to add a few questions to these... 1. How easy would be to add new cpu servers to a plan9 network? Can they be 'loosely coupled' in the sence that when need arises new machines will be added to an existing environment and removed later? (i have heard of something like that in pixar's rendering farm) 2. (Pardon if this already exists in documentation -- I couldn't find it...) How easy it would be to migrate processes from one cpu machine to another, if at all possible? Randolph Fritz wrote: > This discussion brought me to a problem I've been looking at for a > while: I've been studying the problem of building a vest-pocket > rendering farm. For my purposes, I'd like a board or array of small > boards with perhaps 16 very fast, cost-effective processors, each with > perhaps 128 or 256MB of RAM, and a fast interconnect--30MB/sec or more. > Is this--or module-level parts to build it--an off-the shelf item? > > -- > Randolph Fritz > Eugene, Oregon, USA From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Jul 8 02:19:22 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA27608 for 9fans-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jul 2000 02:19:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA27604 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 8 Jul 2000 02:19:17 -0400 (EDT) From: dmr@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200007080619.CAA27604@cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] Re: Loosely-coupled multi-processor CPU servers? Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 02:18:58 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Fritz, then Mirtchovski ask > This discussion brought me to a problem I've been looking at for a > while: I've been studying the problem of building a vest-pocket > rendering farm. For my purposes, I'd like a board or array of small > boards with perhaps 16 very fast, cost-effective processors, each with > perhaps 128 or 256MB of RAM, and a fast interconnect--30MB/sec or more. > Is this--or module-level parts to build it--an off-the shelf item? > 1. How easy would be to add new cpu servers to a plan9 network? Can they > be 'loosely coupled' in the sence that when need arises new machines will > be added to an existing environment and removed later? (i have heard of > something like that in pixar's rendering farm) > 2. (Pardon if this already exists in documentation -- I couldn't find > it...) How easy it would be to migrate processes from one cpu machine to > another, if at all possible? You can certainly have plenty of CPU servers; we have two main ones and others that can be coopted readily. What isn't in the distribution is an automatic load-balancing system (though it would be a SMOP for the cpu command to choose one based on some criterion). What is definitely not soon in the cards is process migration (transporting a whole running state). Namespace, yes. However, something similar to the "rendering farm" model has been built by Gerard Holzmann (with McKie et al.) in his FeaVer system. The name has to do with Feature Verification, specifically for almost-automatic formal model-checking for telephone and other systems: see the first two items in http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/who/gerard/abs.html The BLTJ paper on FeaVer and the 15 or 16 CPU rack that was built for this is about to appear. Dennis From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Jul 8 08:03:43 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA00126 for 9fans-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jul 2000 08:03:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA00122 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 8 Jul 2000 08:03:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007081203.IAA00122@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] cc and more From: "rob pike" <rob@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 08:03:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Quinn is right; ape/cc and pcc have a nefarious bug. We never caught it because it is triggered by specifying libraries explicitly, which is almost never necessary in Plan 9 - our `autolib' #pragma figures out which libraries to use. But if you override that, for whatever reason, you can overwrite the wrong files. Quinn did ape/cc -v -o test -lc test.c which caused the output to be written to /$objtype/lib/ape/libc.a. (The -lc is unnecessary and in fact erroneous). Here are the patches: diff -n /n/dump/2000/0708/sys/src/cmd/pcc.c /sys/src/cmd/pcc.c /n/dump/2000/0708/sys/src/cmd/pcc.c:154 c pcc.c:154,157 < append(&cc, objs.strings[i]); --- > if(cflag) > append(&cc, oname); > else > append(&cc, changeext(srcs.strings[i], ot->o)); diff -n /n/dump/2000/0708/sys/src/cmd/pcc.c /sys/src/cmd/pcc.c /n/dump/2000/0708/sys/src/cmd/pcc.c:52 c /sys/src/cmd/pcc.c:52 < int i, cppn, ccn; --- > int i, cppn, ccn, oflag; /n/dump/2000/0708/sys/src/cmd/pcc.c:53 a /sys/src/cmd/pcc.c:54 > oflag = 0; /n/dump/2000/0708/sys/src/cmd/pcc.c:69 a /sys/src/cmd/pcc.c:71 > oflag = 1; /n/dump/2000/0708/sys/src/cmd/pcc.c:154 c /sys/src/cmd/pcc.c:156,159 < append(&cc, objs.strings[i]); --- > if(oflag && cflag) > append(&cc, oname); > else > append(&cc, changeext(srcs.strings[i], ot->o)); From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Jul 8 15:15:19 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA03843 for 9fans-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jul 2000 15:15:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA03839 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 8 Jul 2000 15:15:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007081915.PAA03839@cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] Why rio instead of 8 1/2 From: "rob pike" <rob@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 15:15:10 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk > Please make me clear what is the reason why the new release adopted new > graphic model. Many reasons. Most important is that the bitblt model is twenty years old now and woefully inadequate for representing the kinds of things people do in modern interfaces on modern machines. The old stuff didn't even have the *idea* of color, let alone a way to use it. And for multibit colored pixels, operations like AND and OR are usually nonsense. XOR still has merit, but losing XOR was a small price to pay for the greater generality of alpha-blended image composition. Another reason is that we needed to move to true color, which is not a power of two bits per pixel, and is multichannel, which further reduces the suitability of bitblt. Another reason is that compiling on the fly, although a great idea in 1981 and perhaps in the future, is problematic for a portable system. If all we had was x86s we might be able to make it work, but with MIPS, SPARC, ARM, PowerPC, Alpha - and the list continues to grow - the difficulty of maintaining multiple on-the-fly compilers pales beside the problem of keeping caches synchronized when the architectures often leave caching details up to the motherboard builder. The last release of Plan 9 represented the limits of our ability to cope. On-the-fly compilation for bitblt had to go. Another reason is that we wanted to use VGA accelerator hardware. Finally, it was time for a change in the way the system worked. It just looked old. So we redid it all. That's the way we work. The X people are wrestling with many of these issues today. -rob From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Jul 8 19:13:34 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA06163 for 9fans-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jul 2000 19:13:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (none@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA06159 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 8 Jul 2000 19:13:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 19:13:29 -0400 (EDT) From: arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20000708224524.281.qmail@nx.aichi-u.ac.jp> MBOX-Line: From kenji Sun Jul 9 07:45:23 2000 Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3J v130.3) Subject: [9fans] user none Reply-To: Kenji Arisawa <arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Hello, I have a question. In Plan9, we have a rule: "everyone can become none." However user none plays important role for Internet service. What's wrong if we replace the rule by the following ? "Only host owner can become none." Thanks, Kenji Arisawa E-mail: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Jul 8 21:14:11 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA07200 for 9fans-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jul 2000 21:14:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from rm-rstar.sfu.ca (root@rm-rstar.sfu.ca [142.58.120.21]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA07194 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 8 Jul 2000 21:14:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gumby (gort.rfnet.sfu.ca [207.23.85.246]) by rm-rstar.sfu.ca (8.10.1/8.10.1/SFU-5.0H) with SMTP id e691Dx317768 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 8 Jul 2000 18:13:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20000708181445.00964240@192.168.246.246> X-Sender: mcquiggi@192.168.246.246 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 18:14:45 -0700 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Kevin McQuiggin <mcquiggi@sfu.ca> Subject: [9fans] Booting; NE2000 Setup Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Hi Group: I hope this isn't another dumb question! I can't find it referenced anywhere. I've been trying to get my NE2000 (genuine Novell) working. It is set at 0x300 and IRQ 5, one of the "acceptable" combinations in the Novell manual. When I boot from the HD I see a message "using sdC0!9fat!plan9.ini". The NE2000 gets detected at 0x300 but with IRQ 9. I want to find this plan9.ini file and add explicit config of "ether0=type=ne2000 port=0x300 irq=5" to try to get rid of the erroneous irq 9 that gets autodetected. I can't find this file on the HD. I've poked around in numerous directoriies. I see that there seems to be some sort of virtual partition in /dev/sdC0/9fat, the plan9.ini that I need to modify is in there. Is there some method of mounting this file as a FAT partition, so that I can edit the plan9.ini therein? As an aside the docs say that the plan9.ini on a floppy has a higher priority (i.e. it's searched for first) than one in a 9fat partition on the HD. This doesn't appear to be true in practice. Booting with a floppy containing my customized plan9.ini in the fd0 drive, it seems to be ignored and I see the "using sdC0!9fat!plan9.ini" message again. Thanks in advance, Kevin --- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Jul 8 22:05:41 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA07666 for 9fans-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jul 2000 22:05:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from marlborough.cnchost.com (marlborough.concentric.net [207.155.248.14]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA07662 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 8 Jul 2000 22:05:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from namaste.stricca.org (discordia-asy-142.rutgers.edu [128.6.251.142]) by marlborough.cnchost.com id WAA25427; Sat, 8 Jul 2000 22:05:30 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.8] Message-ID: <200007090205.WAA25427@marlborough.cnchost.com> To: mcquiggi@sfu.ca To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Booting; NE2000 Setup FROM: pip@namaste.stricca.org REPLY-TO: pip@stricca.org Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 02:10:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-beklhmquqybzcujhpckylyykdk" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-beklhmquqybzcujhpckylyykdk Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit namaste% 9fat: namaste% cd /n/9fat namaste% lc 9load 9pcdisk plan9.ini namaste% --upas-beklhmquqybzcujhpckylyykdk Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from cse.psu.edu (claven.cse.psu.edu [130.203.3.50]) by invincible.cnchost.com id VAA22311; Sat, 8 Jul 2000 21:14:21 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP MX 1.15] Errors-To: <owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA07221; Sat, 8 Jul 2000 21:14:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by claven.cse.psu.edu (bulk_mailer v1.5); Sat, 8 Jul 2000 21:14:15 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA07200 for 9fans-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jul 2000 21:14:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from rm-rstar.sfu.ca (root@rm-rstar.sfu.ca [142.58.120.21]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA07194 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 8 Jul 2000 21:14:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gumby (gort.rfnet.sfu.ca [207.23.85.246]) by rm-rstar.sfu.ca (8.10.1/8.10.1/SFU-5.0H) with SMTP id e691Dx317768 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 8 Jul 2000 18:13:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20000708181445.00964240@192.168.246.246> X-Sender: mcquiggi@192.168.246.246 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 18:14:45 -0700 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Kevin McQuiggin <mcquiggi@sfu.ca> Subject: [9fans] Booting; NE2000 Setup Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Hi Group: I hope this isn't another dumb question! I can't find it referenced anywhere. I've been trying to get my NE2000 (genuine Novell) working. It is set at 0x300 and IRQ 5, one of the "acceptable" combinations in the Novell manual. When I boot from the HD I see a message "using sdC0!9fat!plan9.ini". The NE2000 gets detected at 0x300 but with IRQ 9. I want to find this plan9.ini file and add explicit config of "ether0=type=ne2000 port=0x300 irq=5" to try to get rid of the erroneous irq 9 that gets autodetected. I can't find this file on the HD. I've poked around in numerous directoriies. I see that there seems to be some sort of virtual partition in /dev/sdC0/9fat, the plan9.ini that I need to modify is in there. Is there some method of mounting this file as a FAT partition, so that I can edit the plan9.ini therein? As an aside the docs say that the plan9.ini on a floppy has a higher priority (i.e. it's searched for first) than one in a 9fat partition on the HD. This doesn't appear to be true in practice. Booting with a floppy containing my customized plan9.ini in the fd0 drive, it seems to be ignored and I see the "using sdC0!9fat!plan9.ini" message again. Thanks in advance, Kevin --- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca --upas-beklhmquqybzcujhpckylyykdk-- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 9 00:01:47 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA09016 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jul 2000 00:01:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from rm-rstar.sfu.ca (root@rm-rstar.sfu.ca [142.58.120.21]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA09012 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Jul 2000 00:01:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gumby (gort.rfnet.sfu.ca [207.23.85.246]) by rm-rstar.sfu.ca (8.10.1/8.10.1/SFU-5.0H) with SMTP id e6941c310624; Sat, 8 Jul 2000 21:01:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20000708210222.0096d880@192.168.246.246> X-Sender: mcquiggi@192.168.246.246 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 21:02:22 -0700 To: pip@stricca.org From: Kevin McQuiggin <mcquiggi@sfu.ca> Subject: Re: [9fans] Booting; NE2000 Setup Cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: <200007090205.WAA25427@marlborough.cnchost.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk This worked fine, thanks!!! My NE2000 is now working! Kevin At 02:10 AM 7/9/00 -0400, pip@namaste.stricca.org wrote: >namaste% 9fat: >namaste% cd /n/9fat >namaste% lc >9load 9pcdisk plan9.ini >namaste% --- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 9 10:55:57 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA13400 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jul 2000 10:55:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA13396 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Jul 2000 10:55:52 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200007091455.KAA13396@cse.psu.edu> Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 10:55:49 -0400 To: arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] user none MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-dzbivvadxdtflnzppqtixamhxw" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-dzbivvadxdtflnzppqtixamhxw Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Off hand, I can't thing of anything that would break. In security, less priviledge is always better. I'll change it on our syystems and see if it does break anything. --upas-dzbivvadxdtflnzppqtixamhxw Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sat Jul 8 19:28:49 EDT 2000 Received: from cse.psu.edu ([130.203.3.50]) by plan9; Sat Jul 8 19:28:48 EDT 2000 Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA06197; Sat, 8 Jul 2000 19:13:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by claven.cse.psu.edu (bulk_mailer v1.5); Sat, 8 Jul 2000 19:13:38 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA06163 for 9fans-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jul 2000 19:13:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (none@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA06159 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 8 Jul 2000 19:13:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 19:13:29 -0400 (EDT) From: arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20000708224524.281.qmail@nx.aichi-u.ac.jp> MBOX-Line: From kenji Sun Jul 9 07:45:23 2000 Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3J v130.3) Subject: [9fans] user none Reply-To: Kenji Arisawa <arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Hello, I have a question. In Plan9, we have a rule: "everyone can become none." However user none plays important role for Internet service. What's wrong if we replace the rule by the following ? "Only host owner can become none." Thanks, Kenji Arisawa E-mail: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp --upas-dzbivvadxdtflnzppqtixamhxw-- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 9 17:18:57 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA16807 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jul 2000 17:18:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from pw001.proweb.co.uk (root@pw001.proweb.co.uk [195.182.164.1]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA16803 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Jul 2000 17:18:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lorry (lorry.lucid.proweb.net [195.182.167.2]) by pw001.proweb.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA04052 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Jul 2000 22:18:42 +0100 (GMT/BST) Message-ID: <003501bfe9ea$955a37c0$02a7b6c3@lucid.proweb.net> From: "Matt" <matt@proweb.co.uk> To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] planning an installation Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 22:13:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Hi, I've spent some tim ein the last few weeks trying to get a plan9 installation going as it's the most attractive OS I have come across. Despite the documentation there are a few things I'm not dead sure about and I'm hoping for some clarification. I was hopnig to do a single computer installation but from reading through the list archive I have half drawn the conclusion that this is not the way to go. Plan9's distributed architecture is attractive on a network but am I *forced* to have 3 machines dedicated to getting my first workstation going? On the machine I installed on I couldn't get the network going. I did manage to get it to respond to pings once but it has elluded me since. (on a related note how do I ping out - i can't find a ping command anywhere!!) I suspect that the problem lies with the single machine paradigm but could use some help getting it going. thnaks for your time and sorry for being so useless. Coming to something new like this can really make your head hurt and hopefully it's just something I can't see buried in the unfamilair. my /lib/ndb/local ################# database= file=/lib/ndb/local file=/lib/ndb/common ipnet=lucid-net ip=195.182.167.0 ipmask=255.255.255.240 dns=195.182.164.1 dns=195.182.164.2 ipgw=195.182.167.1 auth=donk cpu=donk # my other computer ip=195.182.167.2 sys=lorry #my plan 9 pc ip=195.182.167.7 sys=donk ether=0020afbd3304 proto=il ################# my /rc/bin/termrc fileserver=kfs cpu=donk facedom=FACEDOM ndb/cs sysname=`{cat /dev/sysname} mount -c /srv/boot /n/termrc.tmp bind -c /n/termrc.tmp/mail /mail unmount /n/termrc.tmp # i picked this tip up from mail-list - i was getting dhcp lookups ip/ipconfig -g 195.182.167.1 195.182.167.7 255.255.255.240 ndb/dns -r ## it then does the normal switch which i wont produce here From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 9 17:47:08 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA17179 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jul 2000 17:47:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from smtp2.fas.harvard.edu (root@smtp2.fas.harvard.edu [140.247.30.82]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA17175 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Jul 2000 17:47:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from poodle-pc.deas.harvard.edu (poodle-pc.deas.harvard.edu [140.247.51.128]) by smtp2.fas.harvard.edu with SMTP id RAA08961 Message-Id: <200007092146.RAA08961@smtp2.fas.harvard.edu> To: matt@proweb.co.uk, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] planning an installation From: "Russ Cox" <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 17:46:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk I was hopnig to do a single computer installation but from reading through the list archive I have half drawn the conclusion that this is not the way to go. Plan9's distributed architecture is attractive on a network but am I *forced* to have 3 machines dedicated to getting my first workstation going? Not so. The installation process sets up a standalone machine. If you expand to multiple machines, the recommended setup is an auth server and a file server as machines separate from any terminals. If you're strapped for machines or space, though, this isn't always practical. It's possible to have one machine do everything although the file service in particular is not as efficient as using the standalone file server. But it's quite usable. In fact, I'm using a terminal booted from such a wonder-machine right now. On the machine I installed on I couldn't get the network going. I did manage to get it to respond to pings once but it has elluded me since. (on a related note how do I ping out - i can't find a ping command anywhere!!) It's called "ip/ping". On the machine I installed on I couldn't get the network going. I did manage to get it to respond to pings once but it has elluded me since. (on a related note how do I ping out - i can't find a ping command anywhere!!) netstat -i will print information about how your network card is configured. That might be a good place to start. Russ From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 9 17:58:59 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA17426 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jul 2000 17:58:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from rm-rstar.sfu.ca (root@rm-rstar.sfu.ca [142.58.120.21]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA17422 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Jul 2000 17:58:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fraser.sfu.ca (mcquiggi@fraser.sfu.ca [142.58.101.25]) by rm-rstar.sfu.ca (8.10.1/8.10.1/SFU-5.0H) with ESMTP id e69Lwr318022; Sun, 9 Jul 2000 14:58:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Kevin McQuiggin <mcquiggi@sfu.ca> Received: (from mcquiggi@localhost) by fraser.sfu.ca (8.9.2/8.9.2/SFU-5.0C) id OAA22110; Sun, 9 Jul 2000 14:58:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200007092158.OAA22110@fraser.sfu.ca> Subject: Re: [9fans] planning an installation To: matt@proweb.co.uk (Matt) Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 14:58:52 -0700 (PDT) Cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: <003501bfe9ea$955a37c0$02a7b6c3@lucid.proweb.net> from "Matt" at Jul 09, 2000 10:13:49 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL3] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Hi Matt: I'm a semi-newbie too, so take my comments for what they're worth: > I was hopnig to do a single computer installation but from reading through > the list archive I have half drawn the conclusion that this is not the way > to go. Plan9's distributed architecture is attractive on a network but am I > *forced* to have 3 machines dedicated to getting my first workstation going? If you have Internet connectivity can't you simply set up a terminal server and use other machines around the net? I have a single machine going as a terminal in any case. I do have Internet connectivity and so as things progress this is going to be the way it develops. I need info on other Plan 9 machines that I can connect to, though. > On the machine I installed on I couldn't get the network going. I did manage > to get it to respond to pings once but it has elluded me since. (on a > related note how do I ping out - i can't find a ping command anywhere!!) Ping is in ip/ping, if you use ip/ping <host name or IP> that should work. > I suspect that the problem lies with the single machine paradigm but could > use some help getting it going. If you have other TCP/IP based machines around you can ping them. They should be able to ping your Plan 9 machine in any case. I believe that you have to set up TCP listening to be able to telnet into your Plan 9 machine etc though. Do you have your subnet mask and gateway set up correctly? All machines on the same LAN should have identical subnet masks. I note that your DNS shows as being on the other side of your gateway. This shouldn't be a problem technically, but is it a typo instead? Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 9 18:49:44 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA18046 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jul 2000 18:49:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from pw001.proweb.co.uk (root@pw001.proweb.co.uk [195.182.164.1]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA18042 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Jul 2000 18:49:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lorry (lorry.lucid.proweb.net [195.182.167.2]) by pw001.proweb.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA08485 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Jul 2000 23:49:47 +0100 (GMT/BST) Message-ID: <008b01bfe9f7$5ae95be0$02a7b6c3@lucid.proweb.net> From: "Matt" <matt@proweb.co.uk> To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200007092146.RAA08961@smtp2.fas.harvard.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] planning an installation Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 23:45:13 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Hi, thanks to Kevin, Ross & pip for helping. I've compiled an answer >You _can_ set up a single machine as a Plan 9 node, << *cheers* >but it will lack certain features (like a good fileserver). I will add one later (as an exercise) when I get an appropriate SCSI (I have an adaptec 2940 :( > It's called "ip/ping". dur /net/iproute is an empty file netstat -i returns nothing this suggests something isn't quite right at boot /ndb/dns -r tells me "can't read my ip address" looks like I'm flailing >If you have Internet connectivity can't you simply set up a terminal server and use other machines around the net? I hope so, what plan9 machines are around with open access like this? >I note that your DNS shows as being on the other side of your gateway. >This shouldn't be a problem technically, but is it a typo instead? I am a little class 16 on the end of an ISDN leased line. I have a router/gateway here (195.182.167.1) that connects to my ISP I use their DNS 195.182.164.1 I've been using Windows on my home systems. I've got shell accounts at the ISP. My knowledge of TCP/IP is rudementary I hope it's not plan 10 by the time i get going Matt From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 9 20:48:57 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA19128 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jul 2000 20:48:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from valiant.cnchost.com (valiant.concentric.net [207.155.252.9]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA19124 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Jul 2000 20:48:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from namaste.stricca.org (discordia-asy-144.rutgers.edu [128.6.251.144]) by valiant.cnchost.com id UAA20837; Sun, 9 Jul 2000 20:48:42 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.8] Message-ID: <200007100048.UAA20837@valiant.cnchost.com> To: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] planning an installation FROM: pip@namaste.stricca.org REPLY-TO: pip@stricca.org Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 00:53:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-dysbotvmjjqbxbckgwzerqzxoq" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-dysbotvmjjqbxbckgwzerqzxoq Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >... "can't read my ip address" And I guess it stalls for about 60 secs ? I think it tries for a minute to get your IPaddr via DHCP, but I guess thats obvious. Try the following line for your /rc/bin/termrc: ip/ipconfig -g 195.182.167.1 ether /net/ether0 add your_ip your_netmask >>[2]/tmp/ipconfig.debug.log > I am a little class 16 at the end of an ISDN leased line. If I understand correctly, your netmask is a /28 ? Anyway, replace the netmask above with whatever your windows machine uses as it's netmask, and I think it should work. /tmp/ipconfig.debug.log should contain any errors or warnings. - pip --upas-dysbotvmjjqbxbckgwzerqzxoq Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from cse.psu.edu (claven.cse.psu.edu [130.203.3.50]) by invincible.cnchost.com id SAA20187; Sun, 9 Jul 2000 18:49:53 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP MX 1.15] Errors-To: <owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA18066; Sun, 9 Jul 2000 18:49:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by claven.cse.psu.edu (bulk_mailer v1.5); Sun, 9 Jul 2000 18:49:48 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA18046 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jul 2000 18:49:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from pw001.proweb.co.uk (root@pw001.proweb.co.uk [195.182.164.1]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA18042 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Jul 2000 18:49:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lorry (lorry.lucid.proweb.net [195.182.167.2]) by pw001.proweb.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA08485 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Jul 2000 23:49:47 +0100 (GMT/BST) Message-ID: <008b01bfe9f7$5ae95be0$02a7b6c3@lucid.proweb.net> From: "Matt" <matt@proweb.co.uk> To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200007092146.RAA08961@smtp2.fas.harvard.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] planning an installation Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 23:45:13 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Hi, thanks to Kevin, Ross & pip for helping. I've compiled an answer >You _can_ set up a single machine as a Plan 9 node, << *cheers* >but it will lack certain features (like a good fileserver). I will add one later (as an exercise) when I get an appropriate SCSI (I have an adaptec 2940 :( > It's called "ip/ping". dur /net/iproute is an empty file netstat -i returns nothing this suggests something isn't quite right at boot /ndb/dns -r tells me "can't read my ip address" looks like I'm flailing >If you have Internet connectivity can't you simply set up a terminal server and use other machines around the net? I hope so, what plan9 machines are around with open access like this? >I note that your DNS shows as being on the other side of your gateway. >This shouldn't be a problem technically, but is it a typo instead? I am a little class 16 on the end of an ISDN leased line. I have a router/gateway here (195.182.167.1) that connects to my ISP I use their DNS 195.182.164.1 I've been using Windows on my home systems. I've got shell accounts at the ISP. My knowledge of TCP/IP is rudementary I hope it's not plan 10 by the time i get going Matt --upas-dysbotvmjjqbxbckgwzerqzxoq-- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 10 03:05:54 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA23107 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 03:05:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from pw001.proweb.co.uk (root@pw001.proweb.co.uk [195.182.164.1]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA23095 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 03:03:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lorry (lorry.lucid.proweb.net [195.182.167.2]) by pw001.proweb.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA28362; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 08:02:06 +0100 (GMT/BST) Message-ID: <00f701bfea3c$24d2df00$02a7b6c3@lucid.proweb.net> From: "Matt" <matt@proweb.co.uk> To: "9fans" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com>, <pip@stricca.org> References: <200007100048.UAA20837@valiant.cnchost.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] planning an installation Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 07:57:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk > ip/ipconfig -g 195.182.167.1 ether /net/ether0 add your_ip your_netmask >>[2]/tmp/ipconfig.debug.log Hooray it lives Thank you for your help (and your OS) Now for some proper delving about. Are there any books any one would recommend? (and I can't read German :) Matt From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 10 06:08:47 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA24686 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 06:08:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA24675 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 06:08:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13BaNz-0003fo-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 11:01:59 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 09:57:05 GMT From: Jakub Jermar <jj@comberg.cz> Message-ID: <8kasmg$2k9e$1@news.vol.cz> Organization: Video On Line Subject: [9fans] Kernel question: i386 test-and-set problem Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Hi all, I've just been studying the 9 kernel and found something very weird. In /sys/src/9/pc/l.s, there is an assembly function called tas() that should provide its callers with an atomic test-and-set operation. This function is called, for instance, by lock() from taslock.c. The weird thing is that it looks as though this function only exchanged %eax and (%ebx) by XCHG instruction which is NOT atomic. The C source looks satisfied with it (I have no opportunity to try it, because I am not running Plan 9 - yet :-). By further searching, I found (in /sys/src/lithread/386cas.s... or something) a routine called cas(). This routine uses the proper 386 atomic instruction CMPXCHG. Well, what's going on? I'd expect all those C functions to call cas() instead of tas(). Mys second question is why cas() is not the only tas() (test-end-set) within the 386 part of the kernel. My last question is why the cas() is outside the kernel tree. Regards, Jakub Jermar From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 10 06:08:56 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA24702 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 06:08:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA24680 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 06:08:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13BaNx-0003fW-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 11:01:57 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 09:56:20 GMT From: chris@river.org Message-ID: <uPS95.228$c5.507066@news.ntplx.net> Organization: NETPLEX Internet Services - http://www.ntplx.net/ References: <3.0.1.32.20000708181445.00964240@192.168.246.246> Subject: Re: [9fans] Booting; NE2000 Setup Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Kevin, just term % 9fat: and then edit it in /n/9fat [I don't have the machine up at the moment, so that's as close as I can say without verifying it.] You had the right idea, but '9fat:' comes first -- it is in the documentation somewhere, but I had to hunt around to find it. The copy of plan9.ini there is the one that is loaded at boot time, if you chose the 'plan9' method of booting. It is uniquely identified because it has the install URL in it as one of the parameters -- you'll recognize it from the one on the original install floppy. Chris From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 10 06:09:03 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA24714 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 06:09:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA24685 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 06:08:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13BaNw-0003fM-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 11:01:56 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 09:55:57 GMT From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <gwyn@arl.army.mil> Message-ID: <39660AFE.2D5C2BFA@arl.army.mil> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <3964F2E9.961F0BBE@cybercafe.com.ua>, <8k4c5r$19k2$1@pandora.alkar.net>, <3965D3F5.832E19D4@cybercafe.com.ua> Subject: [9fans] Re: Plan-9 is too archaic. ... yet. Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Alt wrote: > Why I have to write echo "reboot" > reboot ? > I prefer to write > this.reboot = reboot The syntax of a command interpreter is up to the designer of the command interpreter. "rc" uses syntax similar to that of the long-established UNIX shell syntax for most of the common operations, in order to leverage existing user experience. If you want different syntax, create a command interpreter for it; Plan 9 (and UNIX) support this. Designing a nice, regular syntax with sufficient generality is not as easy as you seem to think. It is easy to complain; it is harder to be helpful. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 10 06:09:07 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA24724 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 06:09:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA24697 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 06:08:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13BaNy-0003fg-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 11:01:58 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 09:56:38 GMT From: "Bruce G. Stewart" <bruce.g.stewart@worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <3968838A.E8A14814@worldnet.att.net> Organization: AT&T Worldnet Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <3.0.1.32.20000708181445.00964240@192.168.246.246> Reply-To: bstewart@bix.com Subject: Re: [9fans] Booting; NE2000 Setup Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk % 9fat: % cd /n/9fat % ls Kevin McQuiggin wrote: > Hi Group: > > I hope this isn't another dumb question! I can't find it referenced anywhere. > > I've been trying to get my NE2000 (genuine Novell) working. It is set at > 0x300 and IRQ 5, one of the "acceptable" combinations in the Novell manual. > > When I boot from the HD I see a message "using sdC0!9fat!plan9.ini". The > NE2000 gets detected at 0x300 but with IRQ 9. > > I want to find this plan9.ini file and add explicit config of > "ether0=type=ne2000 port=0x300 irq=5" to try to get rid of the erroneous > irq 9 that gets autodetected. > > I can't find this file on the HD. I've poked around in numerous > directoriies. I see that there seems to be some sort of virtual partition > in /dev/sdC0/9fat, the plan9.ini that I need to modify is in there. > > Is there some method of mounting this file as a FAT partition, so that I > can edit the plan9.ini therein? > > As an aside the docs say that the plan9.ini on a floppy has a higher > priority (i.e. it's searched for first) than one in a 9fat partition on the > HD. This doesn't appear to be true in practice. Booting with a floppy > containing my customized plan9.ini in the fd0 drive, it seems to be ignored > and I see the "using sdC0!9fat!plan9.ini" message again. > > Thanks in advance, > > Kevin > > --- > Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD > mcquiggi@sfu.ca From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 10 07:57:21 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA26196 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 07:57:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from hon.ai.univ-paris8.fr (hon.ai.univ-paris8.fr [192.33.156.10]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA26192 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 07:57:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from colombie.ai.univ-paris8.fr (colombie.ai.univ-paris8.fr [192.33.156.83]) by hon.ai.univ-paris8.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21415 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 14:06:29 +0200 (CEST) From: Jean Mehat <jm@ai.univ-paris8.fr> Received: (from jm@localhost) by colombie.ai.univ-paris8.fr (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA00364 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 14:04:52 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 14:04:52 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200007101204.OAA00364@colombie.ai.univ-paris8.fr> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Problem with 2ed File Server Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk The kernel file server for the second edition on sparc machines seems to assume that r4 is clear when booting. This assertion if false when the kernel is booted from the disk via the netbsd loader (but true when booting from network). Adding a u = 0; before the first call to qlock cures the problem. BTW, what would you consider as a reasonnable PC to be used as a file server for a few people? Which SCSI card (is the better)? Which 100 Mbps card? What's a reasonnable memory size? What main board for a file server? -- Jean Mehat, universite de Paris 8 Vincennes a Saint Denis, jm@ai.univ-paris8.fr, (33) 1 4940 6403, (33) 1 4940 6783 (fax) From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 10 08:09:39 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA26546 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 08:09:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA26542 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 08:09:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007101209.IAA26542@cse.psu.edu> From: "Russ Cox" <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 08:09:16 -0400 To: bruce.g.stewart@worldnet.att.net, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Booting; NE2000 Setup MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk you've probably got an old 9fat. this is what it should look like. olive% cat /bin/9fat: #!/bin/rc rfork e part=`{ls /dev/sd*/9fat >[2]/dev/null} if(~ $#part 0) { echo 'no 9fat partition found' >[1=2] exit no.9fat } part=$part(1) if(! test -f /srv/dos) dossrv >/dev/null </dev/null >[2]/dev/null unmount /n/9fat >/dev/null >[2]/dev/null mount -c /srv/dos /n/9fat $part olive% From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 10 08:40:26 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA27009 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 08:40:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA27005 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 08:40:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007101240.IAA27005@cse.psu.edu> Received: from ovid.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.50.34]) by plan9; Mon Jul 10 08:40:21 EDT 2000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Kernel question: i386 test-and-set problem From: "Russ Cox" <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 08:40:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk The weird thing is that it looks as though this function only exchanged %eax and (%ebx) by XCHG instruction which is NOT atomic. The C source looks satisfied with it (I have no opportunity to try it, because I am not running It looks atomic to me. The Intel 386 instruction set manual says XCHG exchanges two operands. The operands can be in either order. If a memory operand is involved, BUS LOCK is asserted for the duration of the exchange, regardless of the presence or absence of the LOCK prefix or of the value of the IOPL. As for cas, ... By further searching, I found (in /sys/src/libthread/386cas.s ... or something) a routine called cas(). This routine uses the proper 386 atomic instruction CMPXCHG. Well, what's going on? I'd expect all those C functions to call cas() instead of tas(). Mys second question is why cas() is not the only tas() (test-end-set) within the 386 part of the kernel. My last question is why the cas() is outside the kernel tree. The main problem with cas() is that it's not on the 386. It is on the Pentium, and if memory serves, is on the 486. Libthread is a user-level thread library and not part of the kernel. The lack of cas() for any othe architecture suggests that it was written but never used, probably for exactly the reason above. I poked around in the past and can't find any calls to it, ever. You'll also note that 386xadd.s does not actually use the XADD instruction, for the same reason. Since we only need increment and decrement, we use INC and DEC instructions with a LOCK prefix, since that will work on a 386 (which lacks XADD as well). The choice of locking primitive is fairly arbitrary, and tas got chosen a long time ago. Since we don't play funny games with lock-free data structures, the absence of cas or cas2 is not felt. You could have cas instead, but it'd be clumsy to implement on a 386 (and maybe on the early Sparcs?). Russ From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 10 12:26:50 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA01838 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:26:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.88]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA01830 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:26:44 -0400 (EDT) From: miller@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk Received: from hamnavoe.demon.co.uk ([158.152.225.204]) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 13BgOG-000Lm9-0U for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 17:26:40 +0100 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 17:21:41 BST Subject: Re: [9fans] Kernel question: i386 test-and-set problem Message-Id: <E13BgOG-000Lm9-0U@anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Russ Cox <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com> writes: > ... Since we don't > play funny games with lock-free data structures, ... A notable exception is the funny game which sleep() and wakeup() play with the Rendez structure, which no longer has the lock which protected it in the original 2nd edition kernel. This game is not just funny but dangerous, as evidenced by the new coherence() calls introduced to counteract the resulting vulnerability to weakly coherent memory on some multiprocessors, and the long explanatory comment. Kids, don't try this at home ... practise the discipline of Safe Sharing (always use a lock) and you won't need to worry about memory coherence. -- Richard Miller From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 10 12:29:57 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA02056 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:29:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA02049 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:29:51 -0400 (EDT) From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200007101629.MAA02049@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Problem with 2ed File Server Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:29:49 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk >BTW, what would you consider as a reasonnable PC to be used as a file >server for a few people? > Which SCSI card (is the better)? > Which 100 Mbps card? > What's a reasonnable memory size? > What main board for a file server? These are all good questions and I can't answer any of them. As has been hinted at before, I hope to do some re-engineering on the fileserver kernel and this will hopefully also yield some insight into configuration. Our main fileserver has been through two (non-media) upgrades in 10 years. The original hardware was a 2-processor SGI Power Series (25MHz MIPS R3000) with 128MB and a handful of, what were for the time, big SCSI drives for the cache in front of a 350GB SONY WORM jukebox. The current hardware is, except for the 1.2TB HP MO jukebox, about 5 years old: 200MHz Pentium on a Gigabyte GA-586DX motherboard 128MB memory Buslogic BT-956D SCSI controller for the cache/tmp discs) Buslogic BT-946 SCSI controller for the MO jukebox 6x 9GB SCSI discs for cache 6x 9GB SCSI discs for scratch (not backed up to MO) 1x 9GB SCSI disc unused Digital DE500 Fast Ethernet controller This is clearly old and crufty. I would hope to push this in the direction of much faster, multiple processors much more memory more SCSI controllers (Symbios) faster, bigger SCSI discs ATA discs Gigabit ethernet to a switch With these components we could tune the configuration for the best balance of CPU/memory/disc/network. I'd be happy to discuss options. --jim P.S. If I had to buy today I'd buy a Symbios-based SCSI controller and any of the 3 Fast Ethernet controllers currently supported in the distribution, Digital 2114x, Intel 82557 and 3Com. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 10 15:00:25 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA05722 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 15:00:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from pw001.proweb.co.uk (root@pw001.proweb.co.uk [195.182.164.1]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA05714 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 15:00:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lorry (lorry.lucid.proweb.net [195.182.167.2]) by pw001.proweb.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA26676; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 20:00:16 +0100 (GMT/BST) Message-ID: <004301bfeaa0$72ec02c0$02a7b6c3@lucid.proweb.net> From: "Matt" <matt@proweb.co.uk> To: "9fans" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: <forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk> References: <200007100932.KAA10477@pw001.proweb.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] planning an installation Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 19:55:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Hi, > >>Are there any books any one would recommend? (and I can't read German :) > > there isn't one yet, as far as i know. > now that there is more interest in the system, it is more likely that > one might appear. in fact the link on your page (http://www.caldo.demon.co.uk/plan9/) to the german book is now a 404 http://www.hanser.de/computer/buecher/18881.htm btw thanks for your page, it's been a good portal to the plan9 world. Did you ever finish the IrDA? None of your projects seem to have been updated for a very long time :) It's been wierd that all the people's pages who I have in my plan9 favourites folder have responded to my mails! I've got too much work to do to work properly on it all. No doubt some more questions will come. Matt From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 10 20:59:54 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA12596 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 20:59:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from trachyte.chigaku6.co.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.91.52]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA12583 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 20:59:45 -0400 (EDT) From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Message-Id: <200007110059.UAA12583@cse.psu.edu> To: plan9@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Subject: Re: [9fans] Problem with 2ed File Server Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 09:59:58 0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk As Jim answered for a big network, I'll add a smaller one. ☺ > Which SCSI card (is the better)? Tekram DC-390F is very fast and easy to attach to the new file server. This card has both narrow and wide SCSI interface, and I use both for three scsi disks. Two for main filesystem with interleaving each other, and one for other filesystem. I have older version's file server here, too which use Adaptec 1542B and three scsi narrow(of course☺) diskc. The speed difference is remarkable. Yes, indeed very remarkable. > What's a reasonnable memory size? > What main board for a file server? The new has 64MB and the older has 32MB. The main board???, probably Asus for older and nameless Twaiwanese one for the new with AMD PR200 (which is recognized wrong as 400MHz P54C something, but is working fine). If I have more user on this system, I want to increase memories. However, up to now, this is working very fine for us. Kenji From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 11 05:54:36 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA19720 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 05:54:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA19716 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 05:54:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13Bwd4-0000pT-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:47:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 08:51:44 GMT From: Jakub Jermar <jj@comberg.cz> Message-ID: <8kdhun$1gk7$1@news.vol.cz> Organization: Video On Line References: <200007101240.IAA27005@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Kernel question: i386 test-and-set problem Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk > It looks atomic to me. The Intel 386 instruction set > manual says > > XCHG exchanges two operands. The operands can be in either > order. If a memory operand is involved, BUS LOCK is > asserted for the duration of the exchange, regardless of the > presence or absence of the LOCK prefix or of the value of > the IOPL. Ok, thank you for clarification. Now I see how it works. It really is atomic in the terms of atomic exchange (which is good because nobody can be exchanging it concurrently). Looks like I was confused by its name - test-and-set - which it is really not. It's rather safely-set-and-leave-the-test-to-the-caller. Thanks, Jakub Jermar From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 11 07:24:02 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA20605 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 07:24:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from vivido.hci-net ([212.240.227.6]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA20601 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 07:23:58 -0400 (EDT) From: forsyth@vitanuova.com Message-Id: <200007111123.HAA20601@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] file server problems Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 12:24:08 0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk someone from borf.com mentioned a problem with a file server corrupting the file system. i've just seen that myself with the new file server code (it didn't happen with the old one). fortunately it was just the scratch file system on an older scsi disc on a x542b. it corrupts fairly quickly after i ream it. the main file system on a symbios card is fine. it's an ISA bus card, and i might suspect 24-bit addressing problems on the 32mbyte file server but the buslogic/adaptec code does attempt to compensate for that. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 11 08:10:40 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA21305 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 08:10:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA21301 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 08:10:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13ByhO-0002ig-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 12:59:38 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 11:57:20 GMT From: "John S. Dyson" <toor@dyson.jdyson.com> Message-ID: <8kf0s012ck0@enews3.newsguy.com> Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] Any significant gotchas? Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk As some of you'all *might* know, I like playing with OSes... Any major gotchas in a planned booting of plan9 on my SMP box? :-). (Dell Precision 620, dual 866 Xeon, with 1GB.) Over the last few years, I have been planning to do a fully distributed kernel. It seems that plan9 might be the best, common, at least semi-free entry in the market -- and I just don't have the energy to do a whole effort myself. Even though it isn't EXACTLY what I have been planning, it seems to be a reasonable alternate 'opinion' that I could adopt. How do you like plan9 (primarily as an experimental, education or even useful) tool? I have been intriqued by it, only primary worry so far would be scalability and other such issues (from my outside viewpoint.) Do you guys think that it would be worthwhile to invest serious time on upgrading and improving the kernel for large scale usage (on a per-cpu basis.) Has it improved alot over the last few years so that an effort isn't even appropriate? (I have NO need or desire for private use of my work, and plan to donate everything back for review and potential incorporation, as the powers that be see fit.) Thanks for your input, and I really look forward to playing with and investigating this very interesting OS entry. Hopefully, I'll be booting Plan9 in the next day or so. It does seem that Plan9 has been slowly (and lately more quickly) taking off, since the license has been made more favorable. (Please, no license advocacy, there are other places for that :-)). John From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 11 08:20:29 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA21588 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 08:20:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mailgate2.Cadence.COM (mailgate2.Cadence.COM [158.140.2.31]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA21583 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 08:20:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from symnt3.Cadence.COM (symnt3.Cadence.COM [194.32.101.100]) by mailgate2.Cadence.COM (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA21038; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 05:20:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pc535-cam (pc535-cam.cadence.com [194.32.97.87]) by symnt3.Cadence.COM with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id NWR3C0DM; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 13:18:48 +0100 From: "Nigel Roles" <ngr@9fs.org> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, "John S. Dyson" <toor@dyson.jdyson.com> Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 13:21:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [9fans] Any significant gotchas? Reply-to: ngr@9fs.org Message-ID: <396B1F62.24083.11FD481@localhost> In-reply-to: <8kf0s012ck0@enews3.newsguy.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-Received: By mailgate2.Cadence.COM as FAA21038 at Tue Jul 11 05:20:08 2000 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk > As some of you'all *might* know, I like playing with > OSes... Any major gotchas in a planned booting > of plan9 on my SMP box? :-). (Dell Precision 620, > dual 866 Xeon, with 1GB.) > THe usual gotchas are 1) video card 2) SCSI card read the hardware compatibility list. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 11 08:54:14 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA22215 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 08:54:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA22211 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 08:54:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13BzW7-0003YT-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 13:52:03 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 12:39:07 GMT From: Ivan Rayner <ivanr@melbourne.sgi.com> Message-ID: <slrn8mm4tr.3bvp.ivanr@omen.melbourne.sgi.com> Organization: Silicon Graphics Inc., Mountain View, CA Subject: [9fans] bootstrapping onto sgi indigo Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk I have an SGI Indigo R4000 sitting here and I think it'd be fun to get Plan9 installed onto it. So I've gone through the FAQ and the plan9 pages at bell labs, and I've read many times how it will work on MIPS and it might even work on this Indigo. But I can't see any way to just download the source and I can't find any documentation on how to get it up an running on anything other than intel. I downloaded the 50meg plan9.9gz file but can't find a way to extract the files inside it. (I thought I saw a script to do the extraction posted to this newsgroup a while ago, but either I imagined it, or my newsserver has dumped it.) Please don't tell me I have to install it onto an intel box first... Ivan -- Ivan Rayner ivanr@melbourne.sgi.com From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 11 09:21:23 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA22951 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 09:21:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from fywss.com (cr1009567-a.bloor1.on.wave.home.com [24.114.171.41]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA22944 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 09:21:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from spitfire.fywss.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fywss.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25169; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 09:20:59 -0400 Message-Id: <200007111320.JAA25169@fywss.com> To: Ivan Rayner <ivanr@melbourne.sgi.com> cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: steve@fywss.com (Steve Kotsopoulos) Subject: Re: [9fans] bootstrapping onto sgi indigo In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 11 Jul 2000 12:39:07 GMT." <slrn8mm4tr.3bvp.ivanr@omen.melbourne.sgi.com> Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 09:20:58 -0400 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Ivan Rayner wrote: > I have an SGI Indigo R4000 sitting here and I think it'd be fun to get > Plan9 installed onto it. So I've gone through the FAQ and the plan9 > pages at bell labs, and I've read many times how it will work on MIPS > and it might even work on this Indigo. > > But I can't see any way to just download the source and I can't find > any documentation on how to get it up an running on anything other than > intel. I downloaded the 50meg plan9.9gz file but can't find a way to > extract the files inside it. (I thought I saw a script to do the > extraction posted to this newsgroup a while ago, but either I imagined > it, or my newsserver has dumped it.) You can extract plan9.9gz with the unwrap script at http://www.fywss.com/plan9/unix/ > Please don't tell me I have to install it onto an intel box first... You will have to install it onto an intel box first, because only intel binaries are included in the distribution. There is source for a closely-related machine in the source tree, under /sys/src/9/carrera; that will provide a starting point for your port. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 11 09:31:56 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA23356 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 09:31:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.il.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.il.home.com [24.2.1.66]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA23350 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 09:31:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.com ([24.22.215.100]) by mail.rdc1.il.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20000711133148.CSO25845.mail.rdc1.il.home.com@home.com> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 06:31:48 -0700 Message-ID: <396B1FCD.FEAF377@home.com> Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 08:23:25 -0500 From: Ed Brown <minimano@home.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] awk oddity? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk The following commands: awk '{print substr($0,1,8)}' bigfile >crud and awk '{print length($0,1,8)}' bigfile >crud Seem to lock up awk on Plan9. If I launch either one there will be a flurry of hard disk activity then nothing. A "ps" will reveal the process is "ready", but the crud file stops growing at 8647 for the first and 8192 for the second. Rebooting doesn't change these numbers. More perplexing: if I tr 'A-Z' 'X' <bigfile >bigfile.noatoz or sed 100000q <bigfile >bigfile.100k Then, use bigfile.noatoz or bigfile.100k the above awk scripts complete successfully. As a final check I tried the file on Linux. There were no problems. My environment is single box Plan9 using kfs with 96MB of RAM. bigfile is: 307312741 bytes. 731593 lines. ascii text file with "\r\n" record separators Does anybody have and idea what is going on here? Thanks in advance Ed Brown From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 11 10:39:52 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA25094 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:39:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA25086 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:39:46 -0400 (EDT) From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200007111439.KAA25086@cse.psu.edu> Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:39:28 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Any significant gotchas? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk >As some of you'all *might* know, I like playing with >OSes... Any major gotchas in a planned booting >of plan9 on my SMP box? :-). (Dell Precision 620, >dual 866 Xeon, with 1GB.) Many BIOS/motherboard combos pay fast and loose with the Intel Multiprocessor Specification and there's sometimes tweaking required to find out where the interrupts are really routed to. If you have a problem like that let me know and get a copy of the MPS table (there's an Intel binary available to dump it under MS-DOS). The only other gotcha is Plan 9 will currently only attempt to size memory up to 768MB, you will need to add *maxmem=0x40000000 to plan9.ini to make it probe up to 1GB. --jim From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 11 11:25:24 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA26626 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 11:25:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA26622 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 11:25:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13C1oU-0005nW-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 16:19:10 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 15:09:16 GMT From: "John S. Dyson" <toor@y1.jdyson.net> Message-ID: <8kfa9b02tqg@enews3.newsguy.com> Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <8kf0s012ck0@enews3.newsguy.com> Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net Subject: Re: [9fans] Any significant gotchas? Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk In article <396B1F62.24083.11FD481@localhost>, ngr@9fs.org (Nigel Roles) writes: > > >> As some of you'all *might* know, I like playing with >> OSes... Any major gotchas in a planned booting >> of plan9 on my SMP box? :-). (Dell Precision 620, >> dual 866 Xeon, with 1GB.) >> > > > THe usual gotchas are > > 1) video card > 2) SCSI card > > read the hardware compatibility list. > Of course... How is stability? Is there opportunity for significant improvements in the kernel? If I choose to run 1000 (or 10000 or 20000) processes on a single machine (not uncommon on some machines nowadays), will the kernel work well, degrading smoothly? If I might want to spend alot of time working on the code, I'd like to know where you think that the improvement opportunities are. When I initially looked at the code a few years ago, I was impressed with both the simplicity, but also saw some scalability problems. It was really great to see code that hasn't already been obscured with complexity. From an immediate gratification standpoint, this might be alot of fun for me. It is well understood that relatively less used OSes will often need more driver support than they already have. So, I kind-of already knew of that issue. Note also, there are often Network Card driver issues -- some manus don't always fully document their cards, and change PCI ids, thereby confounding probe code. This problem is common, and thankfully, there are alot of source-available OS codes available to work from. Also, one sometimes finds that X86 SMP implementations, with differing APIC layouts, confound kernel startup. I am not initially depending upon running SMP, but it would be interesting to hear anecdotal reports. If the silly thing doesn't boot up, on my day-to-day OS development machine, I'll buy another machine with no hesitation. It might be a good idea anyway to buy a Plan9-only machine for any initial work. (For example, FreeBSD required that I recompile the kernel so as to support the large number of INTRs available on the Dell 620. Things dont always work out of the box, even on slightly more common OSen.) I have a copy of the entire comp.os.plan9 for the last few months, and am encouraged with the traffic level. John From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 11 12:24:29 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA28662 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 12:24:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA28645 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 12:24:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13C2nJ-0001OZ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 17:22:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 16:20:57 GMT From: vcf@vintage.org Message-ID: <135043.998.495288193226@vintage.org> Organization: Vintage Computer Festival Subject: [9fans] VINTAGE COMPUTER FESTIVAL Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk [ Moderator's Note: This isn't plan9-related. But it might be of interest to some. I never quite realised that old computers could now be classed as "vintage". "Nostalgia was better when I was a kid." ] 13:50:43 Vintage Computer Festival 4.0 September 30 through October 1, 2000 San Jose Convention Center San Jose, California Mark you calendar! The fourth annual Vintage Computer Festival is scheduled for Saturday, September 30th though Sunday, October 1st at the San Jose Convention Center in San Jose, California. The Vintage Computer Festival is a celebration of computers and their history. The event features speakers, a vintage computer exhibition, a vintage computer marketplace, and contests like The Nerd Trivia Challenge. We showcase all different types of computers for all differents kinds of platforms in all different shapes and sizes. REGISTER EARLY AND SAVE! Since you're already a VCF fan, we'd like to extend an early-bird registration offer to you. Register by July 15th and pay only $15 per person (after July 15th the fee will jump to $20 per person). Your registration includes complete event access, including speakers, the exhibition and the marketplace. And just like last year, the first 32 registrants will receive a VCF t-shirt! Act fast to secure your early registration and a free VCF t-shirt. We've made it easier than ever for you register online as we are now accepting credit card payments. Visit the VCF website for complete details. EXHIBIT YOUR VINTAGE COMPUTER Vintage Computer Collectors: we want you! Exhibit your favorite computer in the Vintage Computer Exhibition. Prizes will be awarded in 12 different categories, as well as a Best of Show prize which includes $50 cash! For complete details on the VCF Exhibition, visit: http://www.vintage.org/2000/exhibit.html To see the exhibits from VCF 3.0 go to: http://www.vintage.org/exhibit99.html BUY/SELL/TRADE AT THE VINTAGE COMPUTER MARKETPLACE Do you have some vintage computer items you'd like to sell? Whether you rent a booth or sell on consignment, the Vintage Computer Marketplace is the premier venue for selling old computers and related items. If you would like to rent a booth or inquire about consignment rates, please send e-mail to vendor@vintage.org for more information or visit: http://www.vintage.org/2000/vendor.html CHECK OUT THE NEW SITE! If you haven't visited the VCF website in a while, come on over and have a look at the completely new design. You'll find it easier to navigate and easier to find the information you're looking for. We've got plenty of good stuff to read and hundreds of new links to explore vintage computing on the web. We're constantly adding new content. Stop on by for a visit! TELL A FRIEND! TELL A FRIEND! TELL A FRIEND! We really hope to see you at VCF 4.0! And remember, tell your friends!! Vintage Computer Festival 4.0 September 30th through October 1st, 2000 San Jose Convention Center San Jose, California http://www.vintage.org From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 11 12:24:31 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA28663 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 12:24:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA28652 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 12:24:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13C2dw-0000wd-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 17:12:20 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 16:09:01 GMT From: "John S. Dyson" <toor@y1.jdyson.net> Message-ID: <8kffk90312@enews3.newsguy.com> Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <200007111439.KAA25086@cse.psu.edu> Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net Subject: Re: [9fans] Any significant gotchas? Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk In article <200007111439.KAA25086@cse.psu.edu>, jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com writes: > >As some of you'all *might* know, I like playing with > >OSes... Any major gotchas in a planned booting > >of plan9 on my SMP box? :-). (Dell Precision 620, > >dual 866 Xeon, with 1GB.) > > Many BIOS/motherboard combos pay fast and loose with the Intel > Multiprocessor Specification and there's sometimes tweaking required > to find out where the interrupts are really routed to. If you have > a problem like that let me know and get a copy of the MPS table > (there's an Intel binary available to dump it under MS-DOS). > > The only other gotcha is Plan 9 will currently only attempt to size > memory up to 768MB, you will need to add > *maxmem=0x40000000 > to plan9.ini to make it probe up to 1GB. > Thanks!!! When I get ready, and if I get some stuff working, I'll also let you know. I have the mptable program for FreeBSD (I had to modify the FreeBSD config so that the Dell would work, it has more INTRs than FreeBSD normally configures), it provides the (sometimes interesting) mapping info also!!! John From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 11 12:29:00 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA29000 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 12:28:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from rm-rstar.sfu.ca (root@rm-rstar.sfu.ca [142.58.120.21]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA28989 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 12:28:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fraser.sfu.ca (mcquiggi@fraser.sfu.ca [142.58.101.25]) by rm-rstar.sfu.ca (8.10.1/8.10.1/SFU-5.0H) with ESMTP id e6BGSp304634 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 09:28:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Kevin McQuiggin <mcquiggi@sfu.ca> Received: (from mcquiggi@localhost) by fraser.sfu.ca (8.9.2/8.9.2/SFU-5.0C) id JAA12348 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 09:28:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200007111628.JAA12348@fraser.sfu.ca> Subject: [9fans] Stage Two Questions To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 09:28:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL3] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Hi Gang: Well, I have Plan 9 installed and am on the way on my journey up the learning curve. What fun! I've made a user ID for myself, and have the network going. I got DNS going last night. ssh is set up and I can use it to get into some other Unix hosts. My machine is on the net. So far so good. I have some questions: 1. How do I set up authentication? 2. How do I set a password for myself or other users? "passwd" gives an error message. This looks to be related to #1 above. 3. Do I have to set up an auth server, or can I use one somewhere else on the net that's already set up? 4. Can I use cpu servers or apps elsewhere on the net? Any set of machines that I can make my machine part of, to join the collective, so to speak! 5. The window system: I can't figure out how to copy and paste (excuse me, "snarf") between windows. Two windows running sam for example, I can't cut and paste text between them. Frustrating! 6. Any way to bring up an xterm or the equivalent that runs on my Plan 9 machine, on a MS Win or X box? 7. Conversely, can I bring up a window on my Plan 9 box that is running on another Plan 9 machine somewhere else on the net? This is obviously possible, I must need an account or something however. I need to read more about networks in Plan 9 I suppose. Thanks in advance, Plan 9 looks great! Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 11 12:51:29 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA29813 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 12:51:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA29809 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 12:51:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007111651.MAA29809@cse.psu.edu> Received: from ovid.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.50.34]) by plan9; Tue Jul 11 12:51:22 EDT 2000 To: mcquiggi@sfu.ca, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Stage Two Questions From: "Russ Cox" <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 12:51:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk 1. How do I set up authentication? There are a few words at the end of plan9.bell-labs.com/sys/doc/start.html. 3. Do I have to set up an auth server, or can I use one somewhere else on the net that's already set up? If someone wants to do that, you could easily use it; I don't know of any. 5. The window system: I can't figure out how to copy and paste (excuse me, "snarf") between windows. Two windows running sam for example, I can't cut and paste text between them. Frustrating! Sam maintains its own snarf buffer. Usually people run one sam with multiple files open in that sam. (See the B command.) If you really want to exchange between two sams, you have to choose <rio> from the middle-button menu in the source (that will swap its snarf buffer with rio's), and then go to the other sam and do the same (that will swap it's snarf buffer with rio's), and then you can paste. You might try acme too. 6. Any way to bring up an xterm or the equivalent that runs on my Plan 9 machine, on a MS Win or X box? See drawterm(8). Russ From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 11 15:27:55 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA04410 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 15:27:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ocswall2.fda.gov ([198.77.181.8]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA04406 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 15:27:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sch1.nctr.fda.gov by ocswall2.fda.gov via smtpd (for claven.cse.psu.edu [130.203.3.50]) with SMTP; 11 Jul 2000 19:27:26 UT Received: (from sharris@localhost) by sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA08862 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 14:28:38 -0500 From: "Stephen C. Harris" <sharris@sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV> Message-Id: <200007111928.OAA08862@sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV> Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 19:28:38 +0000 (GMT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: sharris@nctr.fda.gov X-Mailer: Ishmail 1.3.3-990123-linux <http://www.ishmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk subscribe From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 11 15:42:29 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA04939 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 15:42:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from linux.borf.com (mach251.borf.com [205.185.197.251] (may be forged)) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA04929 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 15:42:22 -0400 (EDT) From: sah@borf.com Received: from localhost (sah@localhost) by linux.borf.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23950 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 14:42:36 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: linux.borf.com: sah owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 14:42:36 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] CW Fileserver Kernel Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10007111439390.23852-100000@linux.borf.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk What exactly is the array free for in Superb->Fbuf.free[]? (in portdat.h) I'm reading it off of the super block on my cw and it's all 0's. Sam -------------------------------------------------------------- Sam Hopkins sah@borf.com "... let us tame the savageness of man, and make gentle the life of this world." From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 11 17:09:59 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA07902 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 17:09:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ocswall2.fda.gov ([198.77.181.8]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA07896 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 17:09:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sch1.nctr.fda.gov by ocswall2.fda.gov via smtpd (for claven.cse.psu.edu [130.203.3.50]) with SMTP; 11 Jul 2000 21:09:30 UT Received: (from sharris@localhost) by sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA09153 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 16:10:45 -0500 From: "Stephen C. Harris" <sharris@sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV> Message-Id: <200007112110.QAA09153@sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV> Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 21:10:45 +0000 (GMT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: sharris@nctr.fda.gov Subject: [9fans] Re: Any significant gotchas? X-Mailer: Ishmail 1.3.3-990123-linux <http://www.ishmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk John Dyson said: >Do you guys think that it would be worthwhile to invest > serious time on upgrading and improving the kernel for > large scale usage (on a per-cpu basis.) Yes, I think so, I am terribly excited about Plan9 and hope the best for it. One thing that concerns me though is the lack of a select() call or some type of async i/o in Plan9, so one could efficiently handle i/o on a large number of files/services without forking too many processes. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, (I've only poked around briefly in the APE select.c and so far I can't really grok how it's emulated), but I think to handle i/o in a timely manner on several file descriptors you're supposed to rfork() a process for each descriptor to handle the i/o. This solves the problem, but I think the cost is too high when the number of descriptors is even moderately high (more than 1000, say). I've seen Java try to handle all I/O this way, and even on architectures with very lightweight processes/threads (like Solaris), a select()-based approach is orders of magnitude better at throughput and maximum number of connections. (Thus Java is a poor choice for writing scalable servers in the eyes of many people.) This seems like the biggest scalability issue to me, anyway. I'd like to hear opinions about it, or someone to tell me I'm missing something. cheers, Steve Harris From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 11 17:20:43 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA08294 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 17:20:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from bio.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA08284 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 17:20:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 24408 invoked by uid 991); 11 Jul 2000 21:20:37 -0000 Message-ID: <20000711212037.24406.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> to: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Any significant gotchas? In-Reply-To: Message from "Stephen C. Harris" <sharris@sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV> of "Tue, 11 Jul 2000 21:10:45 -0000." <200007112110.QAA09153@sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV> Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 17:20:37 -0400 From: Scott Schwartz <schwartz@bio.cse.psu.edu> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk | One thing that concerns me though is the lack of a select() call or | some type of async i/o in Plan9, so one could efficiently handle | i/o on a large number of files/services without forking too many processes. If that turns out to be a problem in real life, then I'd much prefer to see rfork tuned, rather than just reintroduce old hacks. | a select()-based approach is orders of magnitude better at throughput | and maximum number of connections. And yet people are constantly writing papers about how select() and poll() are too inefficient, and proposing various other schemes. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 11 21:50:08 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA12948 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 21:50:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from smtp1.san.rr.com (mta@smtp1.san.rr.com [24.25.195.37]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA12938 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 21:50:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena ([24.30.140.97]) by smtp1.san.rr.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-0U10L2S100V35) with SMTP id com for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 18:50:10 -0700 Message-ID: <006a01bfeba3$74a61020$618c1e18@san.rr.com> From: "Eric Dorman" <edorman@san.rr.com> To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200007111123.HAA20601@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] file server problems Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 18:49:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk ----- Original Message ----- From: <forsyth@vitanuova.com> To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 12:24 PM Subject: Re: [9fans] file server problems > someone from borf.com mentioned a problem with a file server corrupting > the file system. i've just seen that myself with the new file server > code (it didn't happen with the old one). fortunately it was just > the scratch file system on an older scsi disc on a x542b. > it corrupts fairly quickly after i ream it. > the main file system on a symbios card is fine. it's an ISA bus card, and > i might suspect 24-bit addressing problems on the 32mbyte file > server but the buslogic/adaptec code does attempt to compensate for that. i've not had any trouble with my IDE fileserver, though this is evidenced only by heavy multiprocessed builds not real multiuser activity. my fs is a P5-200 with 64Mb on a 10BaseT, 2x3.5Gb disks. Eric Dorman edorman@san.rr.com From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 11 22:58:01 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA14544 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 22:58:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from gen.relia.net (root@gen.relia.net [207.173.156.63]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA14538 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 22:57:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from deuce.daves.net (daves.net [63.86.10.207]) by gen.relia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA13639 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 20:57:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from daves.net (daveb@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by deuce.daves.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id UAA05841 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 20:57:51 -0600 Message-Id: <200007120257.UAA05841@deuce.daves.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 (debian) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] sd00 problems Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 20:57:51 -0600 From: "David P. Boswell" <daveb@daves.net> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Today I installed on a Compaq 1850R with SYM53C875 SCSI. The install goes normal but upon reboot using 9pcdisk it can't mount the root FS. I also see: 'sd53c8xx differential mode set' 16 times. So, I added an IDE drive, installed and came up with kfs on the IDE. Same problem with SCSI using either 9pcdisk or 9pccpudisk. bind -a '#S' only finds sdC0. Booting 9pcflop bind -a '#S' finds sdC0 and sd00. Any ideas ? From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 11 23:20:56 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA15142 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 23:20:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA15135 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 23:20:45 -0400 (EDT) From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200007120320.XAA15135@cse.psu.edu> Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 23:20:41 -0400 To: daveb@daves.net, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sd00 problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk From: "David P. Boswell" <daveb@daves.net> >Today I installed on a Compaq 1850R with SYM53C875 SCSI. The install goes >normal but upon reboot using 9pcdisk it can't mount the root FS. I also see: >'sd53c8xx differential mode set' 16 times. So, I added an IDE drive, installed >and came up with kfs on the IDE. Same problem with SCSI using either 9pcdisk >or 9pccpudisk. bind -a '#S' only finds sdC0. Booting 9pcflop bind -a '#S' >finds sdC0 and sd00. > >Any ideas ? Yes, there was a bug in the 53c8xx driver where it assumed it knew how to automatically detect whether to use differential mode or not. Turns out that only worked on some (real Symbios?) cards. Nigel Roles (ngr@9fs.org) supplied a fix and I believe it's in the distribution floppy but not in the distribution itself as we haven't done an update for a while. Until an update is done, if you are able to compile a kernel I can send you the fixed driver. --jim From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 11 23:28:14 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA15455 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 23:28:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA15450 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 23:28:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007120328.XAA15450@cse.psu.edu> Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 23:23:15 -0400 To: edorman@san.rr.com, 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Eric Dorman" <edorman@san.rr.com> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk ----- Original Message ----- >From: <forsyth@vitanuova.com> >To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> >Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 12:24 PM >Subject: Re: [9fans] file server problems > > >> someone from borf.com mentioned a problem with a file server corrupting >> the file system. i've just seen that myself with the new file server >> code (it didn't happen with the old one). fortunately it was just >> the scratch file system on an older scsi disc on a x542b. >> it corrupts fairly quickly after i ream it. >> the main file system on a symbios card is fine. it's an ISA bus card, and >> i might suspect 24-bit addressing problems on the 32mbyte file >> server but the buslogic/adaptec code does attempt to compensate for that. > >i've not had any trouble with my IDE fileserver, though this is evidenced >only by heavy multiprocessed builds not real multiuser activity. my fs is >a P5-200 with 64Mb on a 10BaseT, 2x3.5Gb disks. > >Eric Dorman >edorman@san.rr.com Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 23:28:04 -0400 To: edorman@san.rr.com, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] file server problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I now have 2, possibly 3 reports of problems with the the fileserver kernel and Adaptec 1542 controllers (B and CP). Is anyone running successfully with this controller? The driver changed quite a lot form the 2nd Edition, merging the 24- and 32- bit versions. I know the 32-bit section works OK. --jim From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 12 05:11:31 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA19434 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 05:11:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from minster.cs.york.ac.uk (minster.cs.york.ac.uk [144.32.40.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA19430 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 05:11:26 -0400 (EDT) From: ianb@cs.york.ac.uk Received: (from ianb@localhost) by pc095.cs.york.ac.uk (8.9.3/client981223.PNT) id KAA15355; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:04:04 +0100 Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:04:04 +0100 Message-Id: <200007120904.KAA15355@pc095.cs.york.ac.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] file server problems Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk >i've not had any trouble with my IDE fileserver, I thought that fileservers had to be SCSI? Ian From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 12 05:43:39 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA19890 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 05:43:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA19879 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 05:43:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13CIyi-0001rk-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:38:52 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 09:33:51 GMT From: "Y.S.L." <ciscoya@tomail.com.tw> Message-ID: <8kh3s6$msa@netnews.hinet.net> Organization: DCI HiNet Subject: [9fans] 1st installtion Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Hello! I had installed ok! by use (trio64 vga) But when I reboot to login,the screen blank & some xapp can't open Is it the problem with my vga card ? How to check the issue ? Help Please ! reply to my mailbox,thank a lot, ---------- Liu Yu sheng ciscoya@tomail.com.tw From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 12 05:43:50 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA19914 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 05:43:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA19885 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 05:43:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13CIti-0001l8-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:33:42 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 09:31:32 GMT From: Alt <alter@cybercafe.com.ua> Message-ID: <396BBF6D.634C32DD@cybercafe.com.ua> Organization: KyivNet ISP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <8k4c5r$19k2$1@pandora.alkar.net>, <3965D3F5.832E19D4@cybercafe.com.ua>, <39660AFE.2D5C2BFA@arl.army.mil> Subject: [9fans] Re: Plan-9 is too archaic. ... yet. Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Douglas A. Gwyn wrote: > Alt wrote: > > Why I have to write echo "reboot" > reboot ? > > I prefer to write > > this.reboot = reboot > > The syntax of a command interpreter is up to the designer > of the command interpreter. "rc" uses syntax similar to > that of the long-established UNIX shell syntax for most > of the common operations, in order to leverage existing > user experience. If you want different syntax, create a > command interpreter for it; Plan 9 (and UNIX) support > this. Designing a nice, regular syntax with sufficient > generality is not as easy as you seem to think. > > It is easy to complain; it is harder to be helpful. Yes. Indeed. But, sorry if I am wrong, I think that I can help people though my critics. There was a lot of cases when people hate me for my critic, and then done as I told. About UI I mean different. "this.reboot" is an address. "reboot" is a message. It's not a command. I just try to picture new conception of UI. --the Alternative Good bye. P.S. Give me few months... From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 12 05:43:59 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA19935 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 05:43:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA19892 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 05:43:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13CIti-0001lE-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:33:42 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 09:31:59 GMT From: Jason Ozolins <jason.ozolins@anu.edu.au> Message-ID: <396BD2AC.9BA22564@anu.edu.au> Organization: Department of Computer Science, The Australian National University Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <sharris@sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV>, <20000711212037.24406.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Any significant gotchas? Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Scott Schwartz wrote: > | a select()-based approach is orders of magnitude better at throughput > | and maximum number of connections. > > And yet people are constantly writing papers about how select() and poll() > are too inefficient, and proposing various other schemes. Maybe so, but how does that increase the merit of spawning lots of threads just to get select()-like behaviour, if the experience on other OSs suggests that the thread approach is even less efficient than select()? If people have some references to articles on approaches other than fd-per-thread or traditional select(), could they maybe post them to the group? Thanks, Jason =:^) -- Jason Ozolins Technical Support Group Local: x5449 Department of Computer Science Global: +61 2 6249 5449 The Australian National University Email: jason.ozolins@anu.edu.au From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 12 05:44:05 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA19943 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 05:44:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA19905 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 05:43:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13CIti-0001lK-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:33:42 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 09:32:27 GMT From: "Y.S.L." <ciscoya@tomail.com.tw> Message-ID: <8kgspq$dfj@netnews.hinet.net> Organization: DCI HiNet Subject: [9fans] Panic with aux/vga Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Hello! I use IBM Think I1400 noetbook (ATI Rage Mobility, VGA BIOS include in Main BIOS ,single BIOS) panic: mmukmap1: pa 81000000 entry 10000083 ktrace /kernel/path 80106453 802ee7db 802ee778=80106368 .... ... From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 12 05:44:05 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA19948 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 05:44:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA19911 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 05:43:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13CIyj-0001rq-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:38:53 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 09:34:10 GMT From: "Y.S.L." <ciscoya@tomail.com.tw> Message-ID: <8kh5d5$on6@netnews.hinet.net> Organization: DCI HiNet Subject: [9fans] Start learn to be root Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Hello! I had installed ok! by use (trio64 vga) But when I reboot to login,the screen blank & some xapp can't open I found out user root can use rio enter window well,but no window manager, I think I have to brow the kfs,is there kfs for linux readable ? ---------- Liu Yu sheng ciscoya@tomail.com.tw From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 12 08:13:35 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA22230 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 08:13:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA22220 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 08:13:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13CLJa-0004al-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 13:08:34 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 12:08:17 GMT From: "John S. Dyson" <toor@y1.jdyson.net> Message-ID: <8khlvt0114e@enews1.newsguy.com> Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <sharris@sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV> Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Any significant gotchas? Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk In article <396BD2AC.9BA22564@anu.edu.au>, Jason Ozolins <jason.ozolins@anu.edu.au> writes: > Scott Schwartz wrote: > >> | a select()-based approach is orders of magnitude better at throughput >> | and maximum number of connections. >> >> And yet people are constantly writing papers about how select() and poll() >> are too inefficient, and proposing various other schemes. > > Maybe so, but how does that increase the merit of spawning lots of > threads just to get select()-like behaviour, if the experience on other > OSs suggests that the thread approach is even less efficient than > select()? > > If people have some references to articles on approaches other than > fd-per-thread or traditional select(), could they maybe post them to the > group? > I haven't run benchmarks for this problem exactly, but depending on the technique for threading, you can end up with severe performance problems due to the cache not being able to map the entire range of memory required by the threads. Some multi-threading schemes require a different stack for every thread (perhaps both in user and in kernel mode.) The jumping from stack frame to stack frame fills the cache very nicely :-). A distributed kernel development that I have put on hold doesn't depend on kernel stacks for per-process (or thread) kernel context. This begs the issue of the user space stack, but a carefully designed user level multi-threading scheme might be able to minimize the user stack needs also (in certain circumstances.) There are some places where multi-threaded implementations for I/O concurrency are better than poll() type implementations and vice versa. I implemented AIO on FreeBSD as a threaded scheme, so as to avoid modifying the entire framework for all of the I/O types. For RAW disk I/O, I did place hooks into the code, and had a table driven scheme so that the optimizations to avoid threads could be added over time. John From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 12 09:38:18 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA24124 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 09:38:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ocswall2.fda.gov ([198.77.181.8]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA24120 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 09:38:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sch1.nctr.fda.gov by ocswall2.fda.gov via smtpd (for claven.cse.psu.edu [130.203.3.50]) with SMTP; 12 Jul 2000 13:37:47 UT Received: (from sharris@localhost) by sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA10050 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 08:39:06 -0500 From: "Stephen C. Harris" <sharris@sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV> Message-Id: <200007121339.IAA10050@sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 13:39:06 +0000 (GMT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: sharris@nctr.fda.gov Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Any significant gotchas? In-Reply-To: <10007111441.ZM757223@marvin> X-Mailer: Ishmail 1.3.3-990123-linux <http://www.ishmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk "Tom Duff" <td@pixar.com> wrote: > What application needs to do select on 1000s of file descriptors? I was thinking web serving and IRC. Linux for one has benefited greatly as a web server performance-wise just recently, now that it has a good async-io implementation. ( 3 x the performance of W2K on SpecWeb99 !). When not many descriptors have data available, signals deliver information about which descriptors are ready (so you don't have to scan the long list of file descriptors). On the other hand, when lots of descriptors are ready, you get a "signal-queue full" signal and can fall back to poll()/select() which will reap lots of ready descriptors (gauranteeing the full descriptor list is worth scanning). I don't know how light-weight Plan9 processes are, but I assume each gets its own stack and consumes some kernal memory. In Linux (for comparison) that's 8k (stack) + 20k kernal (at least) per connection, which adds up quickly when you start talking about large numbers of connections ( ~ 500 MB for 15000 connections I think was a lower bound for a Linux estimate ). I'm not saying this is the right system for plan9, I'm just noting that it has apparently helped traditional UNIX in web-server performance a great deal. I'm sure Plan9 could do something cleaner. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 12 10:43:30 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA25870 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:43:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA25866 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:43:26 -0400 (EDT) From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200007121443.KAA25866@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Any significant gotchas? Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:43:22 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Stephen C. Harris <sharris@sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV> wrote: >I'm not saying this is the right system for plan9, I'm just noting that it has >apparently helped traditional UNIX in web-server performance a great deal. > >I'm sure Plan9 could do something cleaner. Maybe Plan 9 can do this cleaner, maybe not, the trick is it is a very mutable system that isn't UNIX and offers you the opportunity to look at things in a different way. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 12 10:55:25 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA26538 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:55:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from egyptian-gods.mit.edu (EGYPTIAN-GODS.MIT.EDU [18.101.0.162]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA26534 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:55:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from ghudson@localhost) by egyptian-gods.mit.edu (8.9.3) id KAA01408; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:55:17 -0400 Message-Id: <200007121455.KAA01408@egyptian-gods.mit.edu> To: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Any significant gotchas? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:43:22 EDT." <200007121443.KAA25866@cse.psu.edu> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:55:17 -0400 From: Greg Hudson <ghudson@MIT.EDU> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk > Maybe Plan 9 can do this cleaner, maybe not, the trick is it is a > very mutable system that isn't UNIX and offers you the opportunity > to look at things in a different way. Just to relay one such idea, I'm told Solaris has introduced a /dev/poll in recent versions. (Though it doesn't happen to be in Solaris 7, the most recent version I have access to at the moment.) The idea seems fairly straightforward and should scale quite well. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 12 11:44:52 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28000 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 11:44:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from pali.cps.cmich.edu (pali.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.131.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA27996 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 11:44:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from ishwar@localhost) by pali.cps.cmich.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA06772 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 11:44:41 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ishwar) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 11:44:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Ish Rattan <ishwar@pali.cps.cmich.edu> Message-Id: <200007121544.LAA06772@pali.cps.cmich.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Ati Xpert-128/AGP card.. Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk I just tried an ATI XPERT-128/AGP/16Mb graphics card. Boot disk has problems (debug is on): ... aux/vga -vip 800x600x8 vga 44: sucicde: sys: fp: invalid fppc=0xc958 pc=0x0000c95a sleep 2 aux/vga -l 800x600x8 aux/vga: mach64xx: vclk 40000000 out of range ... rio: can't open display: initdisplay: /dev/draw/new: no frame buffer .. % Any ideas? - ishwar From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 12 12:58:45 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA00099 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 12:58:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA00095 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 12:58:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13CPgh-0000FY-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 17:48:43 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 16:36:30 GMT From: "John S. Dyson" <toor@y1.jdyson.net> Message-ID: <8ki5m33223a@enews1.newsguy.com> Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <200007121443.KAA25866@cse.psu.edu> Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Any significant gotchas? Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk In article <200007121443.KAA25866@cse.psu.edu>, jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com writes: > Stephen C. Harris <sharris@sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV> wrote: > >I'm not saying this is the right system for plan9, I'm just noting that it has > >apparently helped traditional UNIX in web-server performance a great deal. > > > >I'm sure Plan9 could do something cleaner. > > Maybe Plan 9 can do this cleaner, maybe not, the trick is it is a very mutable > system that isn't UNIX and offers you the opportunity to look at things in a > different way. > Good point. That will certainly be part of my education. If you'all notice a rediculous position on my part, I'd appreciate a kindly correction!!! John From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 12 14:20:16 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02864 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 14:20:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ocswall2.fda.gov ([198.77.181.8]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA02860 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 14:20:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sch1.nctr.fda.gov by ocswall2.fda.gov via smtpd (for claven.cse.psu.edu [130.203.3.50]) with SMTP; 12 Jul 2000 18:19:46 UT Received: (from sharris@localhost) by sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA12137 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 13:21:05 -0500 From: "Stephen C. Harris" <sharris@sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV> Message-Id: <200007121821.NAA12137@sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 18:21:05 +0000 (GMT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: sharris@nctr.fda.gov Subject: [9fans] Re: Start learn to be root X-Mailer: Ishmail 1.3.3-990123-linux <http://www.ishmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Are you trying to log in as "root" right after an install? There is no such user, you should be loging in as "glenda" (just hit enter for the password). To "be root" as far as file permissions go, type "disk/kfscmd allow" once you've logged in. You should check out the "getting started" doc, it is quite good. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 12 14:44:38 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA03748 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 14:44:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA03742 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 14:44:32 -0400 (EDT) From: bobf@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200007121844.OAA03742@cse.psu.edu> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 14:44:31 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk > The following commands: > awk '{print substr($0,1,8)}' bigfile >crud > and > awk '{print length($0,1,8)}' bigfile >crud > > Seem to lock up awk on Plan9. If I launch either one there will be a > flurry of hard disk activity then nothing. A "ps" will reveal the > process is "ready", but the crud file stops growing at 8647 for the > first and 8192 for the second. Rebooting doesn't change these numbers. illegal utf values caused an infinite loop in the length() function. thanks to rsc for finding this. apply the following patch to /sys/src/cmd/awk/re.c: 301c301 < int i, j; --- > int i; 304,309c304,305 < for (i = 0, end = s+n; *s && s < end; i++){ < j = mblen(s, n); < if(j <= 0) < j = 1; < s += j; < } --- > for (i = 0, end = s+n; *s && s < end; i++) > s += mblen(s, n); From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 12 14:47:14 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA03934 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 14:47:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from sigint.cs.purdue.edu (sigint.cs.purdue.edu [128.10.2.82]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA03919 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 14:47:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 215 invoked by uid 118); 12 Jul 2000 18:48:02 -0000 Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 13:48:02 -0500 From: splite@purdue.edu To: forsyth@vitanuova.com Cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] file server problems Message-ID: <20000712134802.A115@sigint.cs.purdue.edu> References: <200007111123.HAA20601@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In-Reply-To: <200007111123.HAA20601@cse.psu.edu>; from forsyth@vitanuova.com on Tue, Jul 11, 2000 at 12:24:08PM +0000 X-Disclaimer: Any similarity to an opinion of Purdue is purely coincidental Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk On Tue, Jul 11, 2000 at 12:24:08PM +0000, forsyth@vitanuova.com wrote: > someone from borf.com mentioned a problem with a file server corrupting > the file system. i've just seen that myself with the new file server > code (it didn't happen with the old one). fortunately it was just > the scratch file system on an older scsi disc on a x542b. > it corrupts fairly quickly after i ream it. > the main file system on a symbios card is fine. it's an ISA bus card, and > i might suspect 24-bit addressing problems on the 32mbyte file > server but the buslogic/adaptec code does attempt to compensate for that. Is the AHA-154x driver fully working in the current release? It isn't mentioned on http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9dist/pchardware.html, and plan9.ini(8) says under the "scsiX=value" section, "At the moment the Adaptec 1542 is not supported." From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 12 17:05:12 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA07673 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 17:05:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from bio.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA07644 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 17:05:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 1669 invoked by uid 991); 12 Jul 2000 21:05:01 -0000 Message-ID: <20000712210501.1668.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> From: "Scott Schwartz" <schwartz@bio.cse.psu.edu> Date: 12 Jul 2000 17:05:01 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] "Reply-To" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk I think I'm going to put the "Reply-To: 9fans" header back on the list. If anything breaks, please bear with us. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 12 17:10:52 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAB07941 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 17:10:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from linux.borf.com (mach252.borf.com [205.185.197.252] (may be forged)) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA07932 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 17:10:44 -0400 (EDT) From: sah@borf.com Received: from localhost (sah@localhost) by linux.borf.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24847 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 16:11:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: linux.borf.com: sah owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 16:11:04 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] 154x workaround Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10007121604460.24822-100000@linux.borf.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu The 154x problem seems to be in the 24-bit addressing mode and its role in DMA. If you change line 172 in /sys/src/fs/(emelie|plan9pc)/pc.c from: #define MAXMEG 512 to: #define MAXMEG 16 everything seems to come up fine. Sam -------------------------------------------------------------- Sam Hopkins sah@borf.com "... let us tame the savageness of man, and make gentle the life of this world." From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 12 17:16:33 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA08173 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 17:16:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from marge.cyber-dyne.com (root@marge.cyber-dyne.com [207.189.172.1]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA08168 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 17:16:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cyber-dyne.com (IDENT:root@rac0M.cyber-dyne.com [207.189.172.172]) by marge.cyber-dyne.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id OAA23859 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 14:16:21 -0700 Received: (from randolph@localhost) by cyber-dyne.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA01513 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 14:16:20 -0700 Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 14:16:20 -0700 From: Randolph Fritz <randolph@cyber-dyne.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Silly porting fun Message-ID: <20000712141620.A1017@cyber-dyne.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu So...having cut and ground my teeth on some basics of Plan 9, and being temporarily unable to download Kenji Arisawa's port of Python, I decided to try building Python in the APE. The GNU configure script provided with Python wouldn't work. (I am now downloading Arisawa's port.) Upon study, I found the source of the difficulty, and I would be interested in a solution for it, since many widely-available programs depend on such scripts. A GNU "configure" script is a shell script which tests the local system for various features. It does this, in part, by compiling many small test programs. Often the point of the test programs is a check for the presence of an include file or symbol, and the main program is trivial. And therein lies the problem. The typical minimal main program from a GNU configure script is: main() { return(0); } The compiler, reasonably enough, decides that this routine never does anything and is never called, and optimizes it out of existence! The linker then cannot find main(), and fails. Is there an option switch (preferably) or #pragma I can give to alter this behavior? Failing that, would adding "USED(main);" to the program do the trick? -- Randolph Fritz Eugene, Oregon, USA From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 12 17:45:12 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA08895 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 17:45:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mallorn.advancedsolutions.com (root@mallorn.advancedsolutions.com [216.3.74.86]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA08886 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 17:45:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucho@localhost) by mallorn.advancedsolutions.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA20475 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 17:44:55 -0400 Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 17:44:55 -0400 From: Latchesar Ionkov <lucho@gmx.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Silly porting fun Message-ID: <20000712174455.A20431@gmx.net> Reply-To: Latchesar Ionkov <lucho@gmx.net> References: <20000712141620.A1017@cyber-dyne.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3i In-Reply-To: <20000712141620.A1017@cyber-dyne.com> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 02:16:20PM -0700, Randolph Fritz said: > > The typical minimal main program from a GNU configure script is: > > main() { return(0); } > > The compiler, reasonably enough, decides that this routine never does > anything and is never called, and optimizes it out of existence! The > linker then cannot find main(), and fails. Is there an option switch > (preferably) or #pragma I can give to alter this behavior? Failing > that, would adding "USED(main);" to the program do the trick? Compiler cannot decide whether a (global) function is used or not -- that's linker job. Anyway, if you add #include "u.h" #include "libc.h" in your minimal program it will compile and link just fine. Regards, Lucho From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 12 19:30:53 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA10572 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 19:30:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (caldo.demon.co.uk [194.222.207.148]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA10568 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 19:30:48 -0400 (EDT) From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk Message-Id: <200007122330.TAA10568@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Silly porting fun Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 00:30:39 0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >>interested in a solution for it, since many widely-available programs >>depend on such scripts. A GNU "configure" script is a shell script there is a more serious problem to many of the configure scripts (in my experience). having done all that probing, quite a few of them announce that they think they know where things are but don't recognise your system anyhow. it hasn't been named in a huge case statement. they seemed really to be enumerating all the things they'd come across so far. that's portability. now i just edit the config.h to form config.h.plan9, do ape/make -n, build a corresponding mkfile, and am done with it. the configure doesn't usually configure properly for building several architectures (big AND little endian) simultaneously in one directory. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 12 19:46:43 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA11000 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 19:46:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cassandra.wayward-volvo.org (cassandra.wayward-volvo.org [207.181.249.203]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA10995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 19:46:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 94640 invoked by uid 1000); 12 Jul 2000 23:46:35 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 12 Jul 2000 23:46:35 -0000 Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 16:46:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Nielsen <cnielsen@pobox.com> X-Sender: enkhyl@cassandra.wayward-volvo.org Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Silly porting fun In-Reply-To: <200007122330.TAA10568@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0007121641570.93255-100000@cassandra.wayward-volvo.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Thu, 13 Jul 2000 forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk wrote: > >>interested in a solution for it, since many widely-available programs > >>depend on such scripts. A GNU "configure" script is a shell script > > there is a more serious problem to many of the configure scripts > (in my experience). > > having done all that probing, quite a few of them announce that > they think they know where things are but don't recognise your system anyhow. > it hasn't been named in a huge case statement. > they seemed really to be enumerating all the things they'd come across so far. > that's portability. > > now i just edit the config.h to form config.h.plan9, do ape/make -n, > build a corresponding mkfile, and am done with it. > the configure doesn't usually configure properly for building several architectures > (big AND little endian) simultaneously in one directory. The whole GNU configure script idea always seemed like a giant kluge to me; an artifact of having to live in a world of various flavours of UNIX. -- Christopher Nielsen (enkhyl|cnielsen)@pobox.com Enkhyl on IRC Space monkeys ate my brain: No such file or directory From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 12 20:23:22 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA11958 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 20:23:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA11954 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 20:23:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007130023.UAA11954@cse.psu.edu> Received: from ovid.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.50.34]) by plan9; Wed Jul 12 20:23:15 EDT 2000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Silly porting fun From: "Russ Cox" <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 20:23:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu The whole GNU configure script idea always seemed like a giant kluge to me; an artifact of having to live in a world of various flavours of UNIX. You make it sound as though it's the only thing to do when living in such a world. There are ways to get portable code without configure. Russ From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 12 20:31:46 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA12243 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 20:31:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA12239 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 20:31:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007130031.UAA12239@cse.psu.edu> Received: from ovid.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.50.34]) by plan9; Wed Jul 12 20:31:37 EDT 2000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Silly porting fun From: "Russ Cox" <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 20:31:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu The compiler, reasonably enough, decides that this routine never does anything and is never called, and optimizes it out of existence! The linker then cannot find main(), and fails. Is there an option switch That's not what's happening. The linker cannot find _main, which calls main, because there have been no #pragma lines that tell it where to find libc.a. In Plan 9, the name you type is the name that gets used. No underscores are added or removed. I find that the only thing configure doesn't do right for APE is try to compile empty files. If you really want configure to run, find the line that says ``AIX loses...'' and change the next line, which is echo > foo.c to echo '#include <stdio.h>' > foo.c Then things usually ``work''. A well written build process is usually easy to convert to mk, often by guessing. I ported cvs yesterday, creating mkfiles by processing the output of ls *.c, and it worked the first time. Russ From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 12 20:34:06 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA12403 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 20:34:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cassandra.wayward-volvo.org (cassandra.wayward-volvo.org [207.181.249.203]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA12397 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 20:33:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 94704 invoked by uid 1000); 13 Jul 2000 00:33:46 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 13 Jul 2000 00:33:46 -0000 Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 17:33:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Nielsen <cnielsen@pobox.com> X-Sender: enkhyl@cassandra.wayward-volvo.org Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Silly porting fun In-Reply-To: <200007130023.UAA11954@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0007121728540.93255-100000@cassandra.wayward-volvo.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Wed, 12 Jul 2000, Russ Cox wrote: > The whole GNU configure script idea always seemed like a giant > kluge to me; an artifact of having to live in a world of various > flavours of UNIX. > > You make it sound as though it's the only > thing to do when living in such a world. > There are ways to get portable code without > configure. Hrm... I guess it does sound that way. It certainly wasn't meant to sound like that. :-) There are, of course, many things a programmer can do to make code more portable. -- Christopher Nielsen (enkhyl|cnielsen)@pobox.com Enkhyl on IRC Space monkeys ate my brain: No such file or directory From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 12 20:38:42 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA12639 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 20:38:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (none@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA12633 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 20:38:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 20:38:36 -0400 (EDT) From: arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20000713001011.292.qmail@nx.aichi-u.ac.jp> MBOX-Line: From kenji Thu Jul 13 09:10:10 2000 Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3J v130.3) Subject: Re: [9fans] Silly porting fun Reply-To: Kenji Arisawa <arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp> References: <20000712141620.A1017@cyber-dyne.com> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Hello, >The GNU configure script provided with Python wouldn't work. Practically speeking, it is much easier to port programs that are already configured for some platforms to plan9. Python for Plan9 was ported using codes for FreeBSD(or NEXTSTEP -- I forgot). Configure does work on popular platforms and we can exactly interpret the codes to that of Plan9. Kenji Arisawa E-mail: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 12 21:33:44 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA13618 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 21:33:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from smtp1.san.rr.com (mta@smtp1.san.rr.com [24.25.195.37]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA13614 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 21:33:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena ([24.30.140.97]) by smtp1.san.rr.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-0U10L2S100V35) with SMTP id com for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 18:33:49 -0700 Message-ID: <001301bfec6a$5630f200$618c1e18@san.rr.com> From: "Eric Dorman" <edorman@san.rr.com> To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200007120904.KAA15355@pc095.cs.york.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] file server problems Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 18:33:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: <ianb@cs.york.ac.uk> To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2000 2:04 AM Subject: Re: [9fans] file server problems > >i've not had any trouble with my IDE fileserver, > I thought that fileservers had to be SCSI? > Ian <chuckle> 'had' is somewhat strong, eh? it's just a software problem. i have an interface that allows using IDE drives for the fileserver. i have 2 3.5Gb IDEs striped together. Eric Dorman edorman@san.rr.com From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 12 22:28:33 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA14728 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 22:28:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from smtp1.san.rr.com (mta@smtp1.san.rr.com [24.25.195.37]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA14724 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 22:28:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena ([24.30.140.97]) by smtp1.san.rr.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-0U10L2S100V35) with SMTP id com for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 19:28:38 -0700 Message-ID: <00ce01bfec71$fec16510$618c1e18@san.rr.com> From: "Eric Dorman" <edorman@san.rr.com> To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200007120904.KAA15355@pc095.cs.york.ac.uk> <001301bfec6a$5630f200$618c1e18@san.rr.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] file server problems Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 19:28:13 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Dorman" <edorman@san.rr.com> To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2000 6:33 PM Subject: Re: [9fans] file server problems > > >i've not had any trouble with my IDE fileserver, > > I thought that fileservers had to be SCSI? > > Ian > > <chuckle> > 'had' is somewhat strong, eh? it's just a software problem. > i have an interface that allows using IDE drives for > the fileserver. i have 2 3.5Gb IDEs striped together. oh yeah, if you'd like a snapshot of it i can provide it. i don't see it getting rolled into the base tree (however that works) but it might be useful for some people. --eld From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 12 23:29:03 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA15961 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 23:29:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from fywss.com (cr1009567-a.bloor1.on.wave.home.com [24.114.171.41]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA15957 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 23:28:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from spitfire.fywss.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fywss.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05252; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 23:27:01 -0400 Message-Id: <200007130327.XAA05252@fywss.com> To: Ish Rattan <ishwar@pali.cps.cmich.edu> cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: steve@fywss.com (Steve Kotsopoulos) Subject: Re: [9fans] Ati Xpert-128/AGP card.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 12 Jul 2000 11:44:41 EDT." <200007121544.LAA06772@pali.cps.cmich.edu> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 23:27:01 -0400 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Ish Rattan wrote: > I just tried an ATI XPERT-128/AGP/16Mb graphics card. Boot disk has > problems (debug is on): > ... > aux/vga -vip 800x600x8 > vga 44: sucicde: sys: fp: invalid fppc=0xc958 pc=0x0000c95a > sleep 2 > aux/vga -l 800x600x8 > aux/vga: mach64xx: vclk 40000000 out of range > ... > > Any ideas? I also tried an ATI Rage128 recently and ran into the same errors. jmk replied that they don't support the 128 cards yet. There is a RAGE128 entry in /lib/vgadb Has that entry worked for _anyone_ out there ?? From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 12 23:37:41 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA16236 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 23:37:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from f04n07.cac.psu.edu (f04s07.cac.psu.edu [128.118.141.35]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA16232 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 23:37:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bio.cse.psu.edu (tnt2-184-91.cac.psu.edu [128.118.184.91]) by f04n07.cac.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA116102 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 23:37:36 -0400 Message-Id: <200007130337.XAA116102@f04n07.cac.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] ssh.c, error From: schwartz@bio.cse.psu.edu (Scott Schwartz) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 23:37:33 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu There's an error in ssh.c:173. There are too many %s's in the format string. (The compiler has a pragma for checking this now, doesn't it? Would that it had been used.) Beyond that, the check for protocol compatability by doing a strncmp is not well advised. Openssh advertises that it is version 1.99, but is compatable. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 00:16:07 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA16958 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 00:16:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA16953 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 00:15:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id GAA12840 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 06:15:57 +0200 (SAST) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 06:15:56 +0200 From: Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] file server problems Message-ID: <20000713061556.D8409@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200007120904.KAA15355@pc095.cs.york.ac.uk> <001301bfec6a$5630f200$618c1e18@san.rr.com> <00ce01bfec71$fec16510$618c1e18@san.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <00ce01bfec71$fec16510$618c1e18@san.rr.com>; from Eric Dorman on Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 07:28:13PM -0700 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 07:28:13PM -0700, Eric Dorman wrote: > > > > <chuckle> > > 'had' is somewhat strong, eh? it's just a software problem. > > i have an interface that allows using IDE drives for > > the fileserver. i have 2 3.5Gb IDEs striped together. > > oh yeah, if you'd like a snapshot of it i can provide it. i don't > see it getting rolled into the base tree (however that works) but > it might be useful for some people. > If Russ has CVS compiled, we may not be far from a public CVS repository (hint, hint) where we may be able to have a few branches for software such as your IDE fileserver. I recall David Butler's extensions to the file server, too, and I was really hoping to see those in the source tree. In fact, there is also the issue of externally supporting Alef, although Limbo may be the better option in this case. And largely it would be useful to make available second edition source code which, although obsolete, may be released either for curiosity's sake or as unsupported alternatives to newer stuff. ++L PS: Russ, could I have a copy of the Makefile/mkfile you used to compile CVS? From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 00:33:15 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA17446 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 00:33:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from bio.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA17442 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 00:33:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 12762 invoked by uid 991); 13 Jul 2000 04:33:11 -0000 Message-ID: <20000713043311.12760.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] file server problems In-Reply-To: Message from Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> of "Thu, 13 Jul 2000 06:15:56 +0200." <20000713061556.D8409@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 00:33:11 -0400 From: Scott Schwartz <schwartz@bio.cse.psu.edu> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > If Russ has CVS compiled, we may not be far from a public CVS repository We've got a wizzy file server that supports time travel. Let's use that instead. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 01:09:57 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA18164 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 01:09:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA18159 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 01:09:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007130509.BAA18159@cse.psu.edu> Received: from ovid.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.50.34]) by plan9; Thu Jul 13 01:09:51 EDT 2000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] file server problems From: "Russ Cox" <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 01:09:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > We've got a wizzy file server that supports time travel. Let's use > that instead. In fact, I have a wizzy backup system that takes snapshots of a local file system every night (or whenever) but only saves files that have changed. A ``more work than it's worth per-file dump'' as it were. Of course there's something to mount them and poke around as though you had a real dump file server. The really Neat Thing™ is you can make ISO9660 file systems out of them (and then write them to CDs). The file systems are crosslinked up the wazoo, but the directory structure is what you'd expect: /2000/0713/usr/rsc, etc. I've only done small tests, but it's pretty neat. Still a couple interface things to work out. The CVS port I did was so I could work on a project here at school without going through Linux to check out the files. I'll post a pointer to it as well as some other random ports (Noweb, Moscow ML) a bit later. Russ From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 01:19:12 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA18426 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 01:19:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from marge.cyber-dyne.com (root@marge.cyber-dyne.com [207.189.172.1]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA18422 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 01:19:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cyber-dyne.com (IDENT:root@rac0T.cyber-dyne.com [207.189.172.179]) by marge.cyber-dyne.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA09050 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 22:19:04 -0700 Received: (from randolph@localhost) by cyber-dyne.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA02800 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 22:19:03 -0700 Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 22:19:03 -0700 From: Randolph Fritz <randolph@cyber-dyne.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Silly porting fun Message-ID: <20000712221903.A2758@cyber-dyne.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200007122330.TAA10568@cse.psu.edu> <Pine.BSF.4.21.0007121641570.93255-100000@cassandra.wayward-volvo.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0007121641570.93255-100000@cassandra.wayward-volvo.org>; from cnielsen@pobox.com on Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 04:46:35PM -0700 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 04:46:35PM -0700, Christopher Nielsen wrote: > > The whole GNU configure script idea always seemed like a giant kluge to > me; an artifact of having to live in a world of various flavours of UNIX. > I sometimes think so too and yet...it works so very very well and there is just so much software that uses it. I don't think I've ever seen a configure script fail in a released program. (Just don't ask me to write the !@#% things! :) "I am in a maze of twisty Unix versions, all different." > Space monkeys ate my brain: No such file or directory Chuckle. -- Randolph Fritz Eugene, Oregon, USA From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 01:21:13 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA18576 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 01:21:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from marge.cyber-dyne.com (root@marge.cyber-dyne.com [207.189.172.1]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA18566 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 01:21:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cyber-dyne.com (IDENT:root@rac0T.cyber-dyne.com [207.189.172.179]) by marge.cyber-dyne.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA09123 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 22:21:03 -0700 Received: (from randolph@localhost) by cyber-dyne.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA02820 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 22:21:02 -0700 Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 22:21:02 -0700 From: Randolph Fritz <randolph@cyber-dyne.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Silly porting fun Message-ID: <20000712222102.B2758@cyber-dyne.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200007130031.UAA12239@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200007130031.UAA12239@cse.psu.edu>; from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com on Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 08:31:36PM -0400 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 08:31:36PM -0400, Russ Cox wrote: > The compiler, reasonably enough, decides that this routine never does > anything and is never called, and optimizes it out of existence! The > linker then cannot find main(), and fails. Is there an option switch > > That's not what's happening. > The linker cannot find _main, which > calls main, because there have been > no #pragma lines that tell it where > to find libc.a. > I stand corrected. > > If you really want configure to run, > find the line that says ``AIX loses...'' > and change the next line, which is > echo > foo.c > to > echo '#include <stdio.h>' > foo.c > Then things usually ``work''. > Thanks. > > A well written build process is usually > easy to convert to mk, often by guessing. > I ported cvs yesterday, creating mkfiles > by processing the output of ls *.c, and > it worked the first time. > This, of course is also an excellent point. My hacking was intended as a first cut, not a finished port. -- Randolph Fritz Eugene, Oregon, USA From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 04:36:28 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA20999 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 04:36:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (caldo.demon.co.uk [194.222.207.148]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA20995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 04:36:23 -0400 (EDT) From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk Message-Id: <200007130836.EAA20995@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Silly porting fun Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 09:36:13 0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >>I sometimes think so too and yet...it works so very very well and >>there is just so much software that uses it. I don't think I've ever >>seen a configure script fail in a released program. i have, frequently, on Unix systems, not Plan 9. it just has to be one version on (and not differing in essentials) that they haven't seen before. the manufacturer tweaks an include file or moves a library and they fall apart. makes you wonder why they bother to probe. (made me wonder, anyway.) when that happens, and this is the reason the scheme doesn't work `very well' (except when it has essentially nothing to do), you will have the penguin's own time working out what those scripts are doing, and untangling some bizarrely structured makefiles. >>(Just don't ask me to write the !@#% things! :) they use a program to generate them based on some sort of description. it's a similar idea to all those compilers years ago for the sendmail rewrite language: don't fix the problem, just bulk it up. i take comfort from the thought that whoever writes these things might have decided to become surgeons instead of programmers. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 04:52:16 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA21294 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 04:52:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from trachyte.chigaku6.co.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.91.52]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA21290 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 04:52:11 -0400 (EDT) From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Message-Id: <200007130852.EAA21290@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] "Reply-To" Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 17:52:37 0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-tengesuxytehbggmgdvqlbzwmt" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-tengesuxytehbggmgdvqlbzwmt Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Scott. Now, I'm no longer unneccessary to pay attention to the top line to reply to 9fans. kenji --upas-tengesuxytehbggmgdvqlbzwmt Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.103.2]) by granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA17100 for <okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 06:07:00 +0900 Received: from cse.psu.edu (majordom@claven.cse.psu.edu [130.203.3.50]) by elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (8.9.3/3.7W-00051217) with ESMTP id GAA11048; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 06:07:12 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA07721; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 17:05:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by claven.cse.psu.edu (bulk_mailer v1.5); Wed, 12 Jul 2000 17:05:16 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA07673 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 17:05:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from bio.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA07644 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 17:05:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 1669 invoked by uid 991); 12 Jul 2000 21:05:01 -0000 Message-ID: <20000712210501.1668.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> From: "Scott Schwartz" <schwartz@bio.cse.psu.edu> Date: 12 Jul 2000 17:05:01 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] "Reply-To" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk I think I'm going to put the "Reply-To: 9fans" header back on the list. If anything breaks, please bear with us. --upas-tengesuxytehbggmgdvqlbzwmt-- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 05:10:46 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA21654 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 05:10:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from minster.cs.york.ac.uk (minster.cs.york.ac.uk [144.32.40.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA21648 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 05:10:40 -0400 (EDT) From: ianb@cs.york.ac.uk Received: (from ianb@localhost) by pc095.cs.york.ac.uk (8.9.3/client981223.PNT) id KAA03291; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:01:11 +0100 Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:01:11 +0100 Message-Id: <200007130901.KAA03291@pc095.cs.york.ac.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] file server problems Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Yes, please! I don't really want to go out an buy scsi disks and cards when I have a pile of spare ide machines. Ian >> <chuckle> >> 'had' is somewhat strong, eh? it's just a software problem. >> i have an interface that allows using IDE drives for >> the fileserver. i have 2 3.5Gb IDEs striped together. > >oh yeah, if you'd like a snapshot of it i can provide it. i don't >see it getting rolled into the base tree (however that works) but >it might be useful for some people. > >--eld From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 06:14:19 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA22412 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 06:14:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA22396 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 06:14:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13Cfwd-00026j-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 11:10:15 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 09:59:47 GMT From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <DAGwyn@null.net> Message-ID: <396D2D91.7148F4FA@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20000712141620.A1017@cyber-dyne.com>, <20000712174455.A20431@gmx.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] Silly porting fun Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Latchesar Ionkov wrote: > Anyway, if you add > #include "u.h" > #include "libc.h" > in your minimal program it will compile and link just fine. I think you miss the point. The "configure" script tries to compile a *standard-conforming* test program in an attempt to detect a usable C compiler on the system. The test program must *not* be platform-specific. The main problem of course is that the configure script only probes for things that have been previously discovered about various porting targets. It apparently doesn't know how to find the Plan9 APE environment, i.e. "pcc" is not one of the names it tries to find a C compiler. My guess is that adding "pcc" to the list *before* "cc" will get past that particular snag. There may be other snags; the other day I had a GNUish package fail to autoconfigure due to there being a "gcc" in my path (effectively a union /bin) that was not a native compiler (it was a cross-compiler for an embedded processor). From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 06:14:29 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA22434 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 06:14:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA22401 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 06:14:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13CfwY-00026R-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 11:10:10 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 09:58:34 GMT From: Wladimir Mutel <mwg@alkar.net> Message-ID: <8kifrm$20ah$2@pandora.alkar.net> Organization: Alkar-Teleport News server Subject: [9fans] 9p over raw ethernet - ? Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Greetings, IL is 9P over IP. IP, in turn, may be over Ethernet or over PPP. The question is could we drop IP layer and address directly by Ethernet MAC-addresses or PPP endpoint IDs ? I guess there should be a practical way to implement it under Plan9 , but I do not know it myself. Please suggest. Thanks for your answers. -- mwg@alkar.net From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 06:14:33 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA22437 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 06:14:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA22411 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 06:14:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13CfwW-00026L-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 11:10:08 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 09:58:11 GMT From: Wladimir Mutel <mwg@alkar.net> Message-ID: <8ki9tt$dk8$1@pandora.alkar.net> Organization: Alkar-Teleport News server Subject: [9fans] 9p "stubs" - ? Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Greetings, I read an article about putting Inferno into lego brick. There they mention styx stubs library, that allows a small device to conversate by styx protocol without having the whole inferno kernel in its memory, i.e. to be a simple fileserver with small fixed file hierarchy. They say there were only 32K of memory in that brick. So, the question is if similar library for 9p protocol exists ? Taking in mind similarity of Inferno and Plan9, I guess it should be. Thanks for your answers. -- mwg@alkar.net From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 06:14:41 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA22459 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 06:14:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA22426 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 06:14:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13CfwV-00026F-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 11:10:07 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 09:57:46 GMT From: "Artem 'Thomas' Hlushko" <tom@topspin.kiev.ua> Message-ID: <963422759.241296@jet.ncc.icyb.kiev.ua> Organization: Unknown Subject: [9fans] alef RM and UG Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu hi! i am exploring threads(2) i think it would be helpful to read 'alef RM' and 'alef UG' because threads stemed from alef and i will get basic ideas where can i get ref.ps and ug.ps from previous edition of plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/ web-site? thank you bye ps i will read about coroutines in knuth's 'taocp' too :))) From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 06:14:55 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA22497 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 06:14:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA22445 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 06:14:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13Cfwb-00026X-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 11:10:13 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 09:59:04 GMT From: Michael Giegerich <migieger@vsnl.com> Message-ID: <8kgksl$gb$1@luva.home> Organization: Softwarezentrum Boeblingen Sindelfingen Subject: [9fans] plan9v3 won't start (PBS...Bad format or I/O error) Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Sorry if this shows up twice, but my news- server doesn't seem to have spread this). Install of plan9v3 onto my Sony 505 laptop went more or less smooth... Plan9 resides in the 2nd partition after a 3 GB Win98 partition. Plan9's partition is 1 GB. When doing bootsetup I 1st tried the "plan9" option and it told me that its partition is more than 2 GB in sdC0, and thus installed its own (more capable) mbr. Despite this, when booting I get the message: PBS..Bad format or I/O error Press almost any key to reboot... BTW, when using a floppy to boot everything is fine (that means I can login as glenda and explore this new world...). One more information: in the plan9 partition I had previously OpenBSD installed (with its kernel within the 1st 1000 cyls of the hd. Booting was never a problem). Any help anyone? And something more: is it possible to use history and command completion with rc? While I'm at it: is it possible to emulate the middle button on a 2-button-mouse? -- M. Giegerich, mail: migieger@vsnl.com, phone: +91.(0)80.5530154 From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 06:15:07 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA22519 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 06:15:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA22458 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 06:14:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13Cfwc-00026d-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 11:10:14 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 09:59:24 GMT From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <DAGwyn@null.net> Message-ID: <396D2A8F.5393F29A@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200007121544.LAA06772@pali.cps.cmich.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Ati Xpert-128/AGP card.. Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Ish Rattan wrote: > I just tried an ATI XPERT-128/AGP/16Mb graphics card. The XPERT-128 uses the RAGE-128 chip, which is definitely not supported by the current Plan9 ATI (MACH64) driver. I replaced mine with an XPERT-98 (getting hard to find in stores) which uses the 3D RAGE PRO chip, which is supported. (I'm hoping that eventually someone will figure out how to drive the RAGE-128, so we can again use our XPERT-128 cards, which are more useful in certain non-Plan9 contexts -- such as automatic stereo goggle support for Direct3D and OpenGL games on Windows via VRCaddy. Lara Croft in binocular vision, wow!) From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 06:41:52 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA23537 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 06:41:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from al.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.250.160.73]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA23532 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 06:41:46 -0400 (EDT) From: arisawa@al.aichi-u.ac.jp Message-Id: <200007131041.GAA23532@cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] access(name,mode) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 19:17:07 0900 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Hello, This is a bug report. Function "access" returns meaningless results. The following is a sample program. #include <u.h> #include <libc.h> void main(){ print("%d\n", access("a.c",1)); print("%d\n", access("a.c",2)); print("%d\n", access("a.c",4)); } The result is: term% 8c a.c term% 8l -o 8.a a.8 term% 8.a 0 0 0 term% ls -l a.c --rw-r--r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 144 Jul 13 19:09 a.c Thanks, Kenji Arisawa E-mail: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 07:19:41 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA24063 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 07:19:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from trachyte.chigaku6.co.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.91.52]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA24058 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 07:19:34 -0400 (EDT) From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Message-Id: <200007131119.HAA24058@cse.psu.edu> To: plan9@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Subject: Re: [9fans] Why rio instead of 8 1/2 Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 20:20:00 0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-tazjeaduxezpglgtlawnethgjx" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-tazjeaduxezpglgtlawnethgjx Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you very much Rob. It's not easy to understand Rio to me, because this is my first experience to see her functions and implementation. Please forgive me if I'm too noisy on this topic. When I do "ps", I find 7 rio processes for one window. I now think I got it right(???). Those are, in the order from early to late, 1) main process, 2) mouseproc made from initmouse(), 3) kbdproc from initkeyboard(), 4) timeproc from timeinit(), 5) wctlproc from filsysinit() in fsys.c, 6) filsysproc also from the same function as (5), 7) /bin/rc or approapriate file to be called called from initcmd() or new(). Then, No. (2) and (5) procs are marked as rendez. I looked into sources, however, I failed to understand where the No.2 and 5 processes are called rendezvous. I know I'm missing something... Kenji --upas-tazjeaduxezpglgtlawnethgjx Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.103.2]) by granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA14643 for <okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp>; Sun, 9 Jul 2000 04:19:30 +0900 Received: from cse.psu.edu (majordom@claven.cse.psu.edu [130.203.3.50]) by elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (8.9.3/3.7W-00051217) with ESMTP id EAA13091; Sun, 9 Jul 2000 04:19:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA03906; Sat, 8 Jul 2000 15:16:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by claven.cse.psu.edu (bulk_mailer v1.5); Sat, 8 Jul 2000 15:15:23 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA03843 for 9fans-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jul 2000 15:15:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA03839 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 8 Jul 2000 15:15:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007081915.PAA03839@cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] Why rio instead of 8 1/2 From: "rob pike" <rob@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 15:15:10 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk > Please make me clear what is the reason why the new release adopted new > graphic model. Many reasons. Most important is that the bitblt model is twenty years old now and woefully inadequate for representing the kinds of things people do in modern interfaces on modern machines. The old stuff didn't even have the *idea* of color, let alone a way to use it. And for multibit colored pixels, operations like AND and OR are usually nonsense. XOR still has merit, but losing XOR was a small price to pay for the greater generality of alpha-blended image composition. Another reason is that we needed to move to true color, which is not a power of two bits per pixel, and is multichannel, which further reduces the suitability of bitblt. Another reason is that compiling on the fly, although a great idea in 1981 and perhaps in the future, is problematic for a portable system. If all we had was x86s we might be able to make it work, but with MIPS, SPARC, ARM, PowerPC, Alpha - and the list continues to grow - the difficulty of maintaining multiple on-the-fly compilers pales beside the problem of keeping caches synchronized when the architectures often leave caching details up to the motherboard builder. The last release of Plan 9 represented the limits of our ability to cope. On-the-fly compilation for bitblt had to go. Another reason is that we wanted to use VGA accelerator hardware. Finally, it was time for a change in the way the system worked. It just looked old. So we redid it all. That's the way we work. The X people are wrestling with many of these issues today. -rob --upas-tazjeaduxezpglgtlawnethgjx-- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 08:19:31 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA25025 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 08:19:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA25011 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 08:19:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id OAA13301 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 14:19:22 +0200 (SAST) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 14:19:21 +0200 From: Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] file server problems Message-ID: <20000713141920.A13263@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <lucio@proxima.alt.za> <20000713043311.12760.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <20000713043311.12760.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu>; from Scott Schwartz on Thu, Jul 13, 2000 at 12:33:11AM -0400 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Thu, Jul 13, 2000 at 12:33:11AM -0400, Scott Schwartz wrote: > > > If Russ has CVS compiled, we may not be far from a public CVS repository > > We've got a wizzy file server that supports time travel. Let's use > that instead. The administration is different, and not necessarily to everyone's comfort. But I do appreciate the abilities of the Plan 9 file system, although I must confess that I have never had quite enough hardware to try it out. Heck, I can't even figure out how to run NFS, or the CD-ROM jukeboxes in any sensible manner :-( ++L From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 08:47:35 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA25949 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 08:47:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA25945 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 08:47:31 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200007131247.IAA25945@cse.psu.edu> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 08:47:25 -0400 To: arisawa@al.aichi-u.ac.jp, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] access(name,mode) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu I tried this with both our file server and a local kfs as file server and got: presotto@who% 8c a.c presotto@who% 8l a.8 presotto@who% 8.out -1 0 0 in both cases. What exactly are you using for a file system? Also, I don't quite understand the line: term% 8l -o 8.a a.8 Is this just a typo or do you have your own library 8.a? From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 08:56:15 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA26225 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 08:56:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA26217 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 08:56:09 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200007131256.IAA26217@cse.psu.edu> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 08:56:05 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9p over raw ethernet - ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-upqaocopwnundpgmduetfkhwjs" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-upqaocopwnundpgmduetfkhwjs Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It is of course possible. You'ld have to change (or make a new version) of IL to know about the ether layer instead of IP addresses for demultiplexing. In general I think you could just write a devilether.c that provided a user interface that looks like /net/il. I had done something similar (devnonet) years ago and decided it was a bad idea. That was largely because this was before ether switches and I could only access machines on the local ether. It might be time to revisit it. On the other hand, one should be able to saturate an ether now with IL over IP so I'm not sure I see the need to get rid of IP. It represents so little of the packet overhead. The X-kernel did this protocol minimalization and noone ever ended up using it, not even the authors. --upas-upqaocopwnundpgmduetfkhwjs Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Jul 13 06:41:15 EDT 2000 Received: from cse.psu.edu ([130.203.3.50]) by plan9; Thu Jul 13 06:41:14 EDT 2000 Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA22595; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 06:15:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by claven.cse.psu.edu (bulk_mailer v1.5); Thu, 13 Jul 2000 06:14:52 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA22434 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 06:14:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA22401 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 06:14:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13CfwY-00026R-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 11:10:10 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 09:58:34 GMT From: Wladimir Mutel <mwg@alkar.net> Message-ID: <8kifrm$20ah$2@pandora.alkar.net> Organization: Alkar-Teleport News server Subject: [9fans] 9p over raw ethernet - ? Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Greetings, IL is 9P over IP. IP, in turn, may be over Ethernet or over PPP. The question is could we drop IP layer and address directly by Ethernet MAC-addresses or PPP endpoint IDs ? I guess there should be a practical way to implement it under Plan9 , but I do not know it myself. Please suggest. Thanks for your answers. -- mwg@alkar.net --upas-upqaocopwnundpgmduetfkhwjs-- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 09:20:23 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA26857 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 09:20:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA26853 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 09:20:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13Cif7-00043g-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 14:04:21 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 12:48:04 GMT From: Ed Brown <minimano@home.com> Message-ID: <396DB521.8ED9B782@home.com> Organization: @Home Network Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <396B1FCD.FEAF377@home.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] awk oddity? Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > > The following commands: > awk '{print substr($0,1,8)}' bigfile >crud > and > awk '{print length($0,1,8)}' bigfile >crud > > Seem to lock up awk on Plan9. ... <snip> User error. bigfile was from another OS. I made an assumption that it was *7-bit* ascii, and thus UTF. A suggestion to other newbies like myself, run tcs on your "text" files first. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 09:25:51 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA27102 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 09:25:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from er6.rutgers.edu (52508@er6.rutgers.edu [165.230.180.134]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA27098 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 09:25:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from anothy@localhost) by er6.rutgers.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA07537 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 09:25:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 09:25:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Anthony Sorace <anothy@eden.rutgers.edu> Message-Id: <200007131325.JAA07537@er6.rutgers.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9v3 won't start (PBS...Bad format or I/O error) Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu //is it possible to use history and command completion with rc? no. rc has neither of these functions. history is the job of the windowing system - simply snarf your previous commands, edit in place, send them down... it's much better than the history built into most shells. you also have the _output_ of each command right along side it. there simply is no command completion. //is it possible to emulate the middle button on a 2-button-mouse? yes. shift+right_button, i think. this'll work for many cases, but you're still in bad shape when it comes to using Acme; too much chording for this to be practical. really, invest in a good three button mouse. : anothy; From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 10:11:12 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA28374 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:11:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA28370 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:11:07 -0400 (EDT) From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200007131411.KAA28370@cse.psu.edu> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:11:04 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9v3 won't start (PBS...Bad format or I/O error) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >really, invest in a good three >button mouse. >: anothy; of course, that's correct. however, can someone suggest where such a mouse can be found? my old left-handed logitechs are wearing out. --jim From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 10:29:44 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA28917 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:29:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from thunderer.cnchost.com (thunderer.concentric.net [207.155.252.72]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA28907 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:29:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from namaste.stricca.org (discordia-asy-189.rutgers.edu [128.6.251.189]) by thunderer.cnchost.com id KAA10080; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:29:33 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.8] Message-ID: <200007131429.KAA10080@thunderer.cnchost.com> To: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9v3 won't start (PBS...Bad format or I/O error) FROM: pip@namaste.stricca.org REPLY-TO: pip@stricca.org Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 14:34:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-fqextmzzzdsewfvwprrsdcalqd" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-fqextmzzzdsewfvwprrsdcalqd Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I've been using a Logitech TrackMan Marble FX for about 2 years now. I swear by it. I think any decent computer store carries it. It does look a bit wacky, but it's a real starry 3½ button mouse. - pip --upas-fqextmzzzdsewfvwprrsdcalqd Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from cse.psu.edu (claven.cse.psu.edu [130.203.3.50]) by invincible.cnchost.com id KAA05577; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:11:22 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP MX 1.15] Errors-To: <owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA28394; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:11:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by claven.cse.psu.edu (bulk_mailer v1.5); Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:11:16 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA28374 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:11:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA28370 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:11:07 -0400 (EDT) From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200007131411.KAA28370@cse.psu.edu> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:11:04 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9v3 won't start (PBS...Bad format or I/O error) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk >really, invest in a good three >button mouse. >: anothy; of course, that's correct. however, can someone suggest where such a mouse can be found? my old left-handed logitechs are wearing out. --jim --upas-fqextmzzzdsewfvwprrsdcalqd-- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 10:52:03 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA00093 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:52:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA00084 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:51:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id QAA13455 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 16:51:52 +0200 (SAST) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 16:51:51 +0200 From: Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9v3 won't start (PBS...Bad format or I/O error) Message-ID: <20000713165151.C13263@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200007131411.KAA28370@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <200007131411.KAA28370@cse.psu.edu>; from jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com on Thu, Jul 13, 2000 at 10:11:04AM -0400 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Thu, Jul 13, 2000 at 10:11:04AM -0400, jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > > >really, invest in a good three > >button mouse. > >: anothy; > > of course, that's correct. however, can someone suggest where such a mouse can > be found? my old left-handed logitechs are wearing out. > You'll hate this :-) I have just collected five 3-button logitechs, four of them square (I already have two of those) and one sligthly oval, all of them symmetric. And I can probably get more, 'cause the crowd I got them from seem to get them with some obsolete computers they buy to run MS-DOS (PABX monitoring software) on, and have no use whatesoever for them. The price? Zilch, 'cept one of them has lost one of those nylon feet that probably make all the difference. I guess I'll have to keep that one for spares. Sadly, it is probably not worth it to send you a few, as it will cost too much in shipping. BTW, I understand that recent releases of XFree86 can treat the new generation of mice (the ones with the rather female appearance, if you'll excuse the indelicacy) as if they were multibutton, doing all sorts of clever things like scrolling and the like. I've seen it in action, and it was quite impressive, although I must confess I don't understand quite how it was done. And, > --jim I haven't forgotten about the odd 3C509 adapter, in fact, I tried it out, and got it to work perfectly well by selecting the medium in advance (BNC - my office is almost intentionally anti-diluvian). I guess there are a few specimens out there that do not obey the incantations you take them through. If I wasn't using the card right now, I'd be playing with it more. I do have the results (roughly) of setting the debug option, but they weren't terribly informative (to me). As soon as I get a chance to look again, I'll be a little more thorough. Another thing: I see that we're requested to notify "trouble" about nodummyrr's we find. I have a few such ethernet adapters here, but they are pretty old and poorly labelled. On the other hand, my old Plan 9 installation has been running off them all along, and curiously, the FS kernel did not seem to need the qualifier. I thought it would be worth mentioning, it may be preferable if the 3rd edition FS kernel were more consistent :-) Now let me go back to figure out why kenji can access his 2nd edition and I just get "AS protocol botch"es when I try :-( ++L From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 11:35:08 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA01397 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 11:35:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from er6.rutgers.edu (52508@er6.rutgers.edu [165.230.180.134]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA01388 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 11:35:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from anothy@localhost) by er6.rutgers.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA20007; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 11:34:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 11:34:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Anthony Sorace <anothy@eden.rutgers.edu> Message-Id: <200007131534.LAA20007@er6.rutgers.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, pip@stricca.org Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9v3 won't start (PBS...Bad format or I/O error) Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu i've been using the TrackMan for a good while, as well, and am equally pleased. it's got the nice added bonus of taking up much less desk space, too. as most people seem not to make good mice any more, it's a good bet, if it comes in a left-handed version. i also use a Logitech MouseMan, from just before they all went down hill. it's the purple and grey one (matches a mountain bike i used to have) and has one extra button by the thumb. : anothy; From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 12:01:33 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA02284 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 12:01:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from egyptian-gods.mit.edu (EGYPTIAN-GODS.MIT.EDU [18.101.0.162]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA02270 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 12:01:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from ghudson@localhost) by egyptian-gods.mit.edu (8.9.3) id MAA01725; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 12:01:14 -0400 Message-Id: <200007131601.MAA01725@egyptian-gods.mit.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Silly porting fun In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 13 Jul 0100 09:36:13." <200007130836.EAA20995@cse.psu.edu> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 12:01:14 -0400 From: Greg Hudson <ghudson@MIT.EDU> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > i have, frequently, on Unix systems, not Plan 9. it just has to be > one version on (and not differing in essentials) that they haven't > seen before. the manufacturer tweaks an include file or moves a > library and they fall apart. makes you wonder why they bother to > probe. (made me wonder, anyway.) Plan 9 people have an incredible propensity to focus on the occasional failure of common Unix models and ignore the successes. The principles behind the autoconf model are: * You'd like your program to compile, on a wide variety of systems, when the user types "./configure" and "make". So you don't want to do things at build time which won't compile or link. The best way to find out whether something will compile or link on a given system is to try it out at configure time. * You don't want to require builders to have special tools on their system to build your program. As long as package authors stick to these principles, autoconf works quite well, even if it is just a kludgy collection of m4 macros. It doesn't matter if a vendor tweaks an include file or moves a library; either a candidate bit of code will work on that system or it won't. Unfortunately, not all portability issues can be handled by simply trying to compile and/or link a finite number of code samples, and not all package authors understand or care about the above principles, so you get the occasional problem. But really, I've dealt (as an integrator) with a lot of autoconfigured programs on a lot of systems, and I've never wished that a program didn't use autoconf. On the other side of the coin, as someone mentioned, you can try to make your software portable without autoconf. That trick almost never works well. You invariably wind up creating a complicated one-off system with its own weird conventions for tweaking various build parameters. I've played integrator for a lot of programs which take this approach, and I've always wished that they used autoconf. > you will have the penguin's own time working out what those scripts > are doing, and untangling some bizarrely structured makefiles. "Working out what those scripts are doing" is usually a matter of looking at config.log. Bizarrely structured makefiles are not autoconf's fault. I've written lots of autoconfigured packages with extremely concise and understandable Makefiles. They may be automake's fault, though. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 12:18:35 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA02885 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 12:18:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA02878 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 12:18:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007131618.MAA02878@cse.psu.edu> Received: from ovid.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.50.34]) by plan9; Thu Jul 13 12:18:26 EDT 2000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9v3 won't start (PBS...Bad format or I/O error) From: "Russ Cox" <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 12:18:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu of course, that's correct. however, can someone suggest where such a mouse can be found? my old left-handed logitechs are wearing out. i've been digging around in places where you can find used computer parts. the ps2 version of the good logitech mouse is m-cq38 and the serial is m-ml38 (part numbers). the 3 is 3-button and the 8 the shape of the mouse, i'm pretty sure. there are still a number of places on the web that sell ``mouseman for laptops'', which is the same mouse. it also goes under the name ``mouseman ii classic'' and ``mousemn sensa'', according to logitech's web page, but i haven't found either of those listed anywhere. russ From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 14:56:04 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA07160 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 14:56:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from new.borf.com (new.borf.com [205.185.197.9]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA07152 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 14:55:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from largepete (mach111.borf.com [205.185.197.111] (may be forged)) by new.borf.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA12968 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 14:49:26 -0400 (EDT) From: "Peter LeBlond" <pdl@borf.com> To: "Plan9 Mailing List" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] Installation on IBM Thinkpad Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 14:55:40 -0400 Message-ID: <GKEALLACAPMJGFCPADEGIEDACDAA.pdl@borf.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu I am trying to install on a IBM Thinkpad 600E (2645 5BU). I had to change the entry in vgadb from MagicGraph 256 to MagicMedia 256 to get the video working correctly, and now am stuck because Plan 9 can't see the HD. There is no entry in /dev for it. I used Ms-Dos fdisk to remove the original partitions with Windoze on it. Any suggestions? pdl@borf.com From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 15:20:24 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA08026 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 15:20:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA08020 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 15:20:17 -0400 (EDT) From: tad@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200007131920.PAA08020@cse.psu.edu> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 15:20:00 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Installation on IBM Thinkpad MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu I didn't have any trouble installing the distribution on my thinkpad 600E. It worked first try right out of the box. I installed it on the last partition, Linux and Win98 take up the first three. I installed from the distribution on the Linux ext2fs filesystem (nor did I have to place it in the root directory like someone else on this list mentioned having to do to get the install from ext2 to work. Are you saying that the install boot floppy isn't finding the disk? -Tad From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 15:42:54 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA08727 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 15:42:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cruiser.nevex.com (gate.nevex.com [207.245.2.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA08723 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 15:42:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from steve@localhost) by cruiser.nevex.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA11942 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 15:42:47 -0400 Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 15:42:47 -0400 From: Steve Kotsopoulos <steve@nevex.com> Message-Id: <200007131942.PAA11942@cruiser.nevex.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] best supported vga card? Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu given that only mach64 and S3 Virge based cards currently support acceleration and more than 8-bit depth, which is the best card for the money today? I want at least 1280x1024x16 with acceleration. I've seen 8Meg Xpert 98 cards for $55. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 15:48:16 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA09052 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 15:48:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from bromine.myriadgate.net (openbsd.myriadgate.net [139.142.42.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA09040 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 15:48:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 12073 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2000 19:44:50 -0000 Received: from xenon.myriadgate.net (HELO mail.usask.ca) (andrey@192.168.120.7) by bromine.myriadgate.net with SMTP; 13 Jul 2000 19:44:50 -0000 Message-ID: <396E1C3F.FFB55FAD@mail.usask.ca> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 13:45:03 -0600 From: Andrey Mirtchovski <aam396@mail.usask.ca> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.11 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] best supported vga card? References: <200007131942.PAA11942@cruiser.nevex.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Steve Kotsopoulos wrote: > given that only mach64 and S3 Virge based cards currently support > acceleration and more than 8-bit depth, which is the best card for > the money today? I want at least 1280x1024x16 with acceleration. > > I've seen 8Meg Xpert 98 cards for $55. ATI Xpert@Work 8meg works fine at 1280x1024x24... Acceleration seems to be good and the speed is at least 2x the non-accelerated one. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 16:04:58 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA09630 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 16:04:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from smtp2.fas.harvard.edu (root@smtp2.fas.harvard.edu [140.247.30.82]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA09626 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 16:04:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from poodle-pc.deas.harvard.edu (poodle-pc.deas.harvard.edu [140.247.51.128]) by smtp2.fas.harvard.edu with SMTP id QAA12290; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 16:04:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007132004.QAA12290@smtp2.fas.harvard.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] best supported vga card? From: "Russ Cox" <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 16:04:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Today, the best supported cards are the Mach 64s. With 8MB you can do 1600x1200x32 or 1800x1350x24, so an Xpert 98 is probably just great. Russ From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 16:32:31 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA10480 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 16:32:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from smtp2.fas.harvard.edu (root@smtp2.fas.harvard.edu [140.247.30.82]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA10471 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 16:32:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from poodle-pc.deas.harvard.edu (poodle-pc.deas.harvard.edu [140.247.51.128]) by smtp2.fas.harvard.edu with SMTP id QAA17466; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 16:32:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007132032.QAA17466@smtp2.fas.harvard.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Silly porting fun From: "Russ Cox" <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 16:32:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu If you want auto-configuration, autoconf is indeed the cream of that particular crop, especially compared to some other systems I've seen. You're correct that rolling your own auto-configuration program is not a good idea. As long as package authors stick to even more basic principles about writing portable _code_, auto-configuration is not necessary. Then there are no build parameters to tweak. I cite as examples drawterm, newsqueak, and sam. I'm sure there are less parochial ones. (In drawterm, it does not cease to amaze me that the only difference between the code used under FreeBSD and the code used under Irix is five lines of assembly for test-and-set. And there are no #ifdefs.) Russ From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 16:43:29 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA10935 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 16:43:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from smtp3.fas.harvard.edu (root@smtp3.fas.harvard.edu [140.247.30.83]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA10927 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 16:43:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from poodle-pc.deas.harvard.edu (poodle-pc.deas.harvard.edu [140.247.51.128]) by smtp3.fas.harvard.edu with SMTP id QAA11368 Message-Id: <200007132043.QAA11368@smtp3.fas.harvard.edu> To: migieger@vsnl.com, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9v3 won't start (PBS...Bad format or I/O error) From: "Russ Cox" <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 16:43:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu If it installed its own MBR there should be MBR... before PBS... You may need pbslba instead of pbs. That is, disk/format -b /386/pbslba /dev/sdC0/plan9 Or maybe you already have pbslba and you need pbs disk/format -b /386/pbs /dev/sdC0/plan9 (it will just install a boot sector, not format). And something more: is it possible to use history and command completion with rc? Not really. I like this command (which Tom Killian introduced me to) a lot though: g% cat /usr/rsc/bin/rc/" #!/bin/rc { if(test -r /mnt/acme/acme/body) cat /mnt/acme/acme/body if not cat /dev/text } | grep '^[^ ]*%[ ]*'$1 | {echo; cat} | pr -t -n | sort -u +1 | sort -n | sed 's/^ *[0-9]+ //' | grep . # the silly {echo; cat} gets around pr printing "empty file" when # presented with no input. g% It prints all commands in the current window that begin with the given string. For example, it prints the two lines marked with >>> in the following. g% cat /usr/rsc/bin/rc/" ... g% cat /adm/users ... g% " cat >>> g% cat /usr/rsc/bin/rc/" >>> g% cat /adm/users g% Russ From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 17:46:55 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA12432 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 17:46:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (none@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA12428 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 17:46:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 17:46:50 -0400 (EDT) From: arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20000713211809.268.qmail@nx.aichi-u.ac.jp> MBOX-Line: From kenji Fri Jul 14 06:18:08 2000 Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3J v130.3) Subject: [9fans] 3-buuton mouse Reply-To: Kenji Arisawa <arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp> References: <200007131618.MAA02878@cse.psu.edu> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Hello, >of course, that's correct. however, can someone suggest where >such a mouse can be found? >my old left-handed logitechs are wearing out. A mouse with a roller can be a 3-buuton mouse. That type of mouse is called "roller mouse". It is somewhat hard to push the roller. Therefore I do not like the mouse. However roller mouse is very popular now, and we are sometimes insisted to use it. By the way I bought 150 3-button mice a years ago for our University. The brand name is "Whale Mouse", very cheap and easy to use. I don't know if you can get them. Kenji Arisawa E-mail: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 18:01:56 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA12840 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 18:01:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (none@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA12832 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 18:01:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 18:01:50 -0400 (EDT) From: arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20000713213323.273.qmail@nx.aichi-u.ac.jp> MBOX-Line: From kenji Fri Jul 14 06:33:22 2000 Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3J v130.3) Subject: Re: [9fans] access(name,mode) Reply-To: Kenji Arisawa <arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp> References: <200007131247.IAA25945@cse.psu.edu> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Hello Presotto, >I tried this with both our file server and a local kfs as >file server and got: > >presotto@who% 8c a.c >presotto@who% 8l a.8 >presotto@who% 8.out >-1 >0 >0 > >in both cases. What exactly are you using for a file system? Hmm..., I will trace my library. >term% 8l -o 8.a a.8 >Is this just a typo or do you have your own library 8.a? No, I had a 8.out and did not want to overwrite it. I found the problem in compiling and testing ykhttpd by Forsyth. Kenji Arisawa E-mail: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 18:25:55 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA13406 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 18:25:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ns.mccme.ru (ns.mccme.ru [195.133.68.22]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA13402 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 18:25:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by ns.mccme.ru (8.8.5/8.8.5) with UUCP id BAA29760 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 01:14:20 +0400 Received: from localhost (goga@localhost) by cadeau.bronnikov.mccme.ru (8.9.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA08243 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 02:24:36 +0400 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 02:24:36 +0400 (MSD) From: George Bronnikov <goga@rgs.mccme.ru> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] best supported vga card? In-Reply-To: <200007132004.QAA12290@smtp2.fas.harvard.edu> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0007140220190.8207-100000@cadeau.bronnikov.mccme.ru> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Thu, 13 Jul 2000, Russ Cox wrote: > Today, the best supported cards are the Mach 64s. > With 8MB you can do 1600x1200x32 or 1800x1350x24, > so an Xpert 98 is probably just great. > > Russ I have trouble configuring my RagePro. The only working (sorta) mode is 640x480x8, and there I have the left half of the screen repeated twice. Definitely not a pleasant working environment. Is there any known cure? George From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 19:34:58 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA14786 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 19:34:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA14780 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 19:34:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007132334.TAA14780@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Why rio instead of 8 1/2 From: "rob pike" <rob@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 19:34:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Then, No. (2) and (5) procs are marked as rendez. I looked into sources, however, I failed to understand where the No.2 and 5 processes are called rendezvous. I know I'm missing something... They aren't called rendezvous, they're in the rendezvous state. That field of the ps output is the state of the process, typically a system call name (such as Wait, Read, etc.) or a process state (Fault, Rendez, etc.) -rob From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 19:40:11 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA15001 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 19:40:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (none@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA14997 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 19:40:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 19:40:06 -0400 (EDT) From: arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20000713231140.308.qmail@nx.aichi-u.ac.jp> MBOX-Line: From kenji Fri Jul 14 08:11:39 2000 Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3J v130.3) Subject: Re: [9fans] 3-buuton mouse Reply-To: Kenji Arisawa <arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Hello, >> By the way I bought 150 3-button mice a years ago for our >> University. >> The brand name is "Whale Mouse", very cheap and easy to use. >> I don't know if you can get them. >> >http://www.ergoview.com/prod_hands_wm.html? Thank you for your information, but the mice I bought was different. The mice were sold at a shop in our city. The shop is gone. People say the shop belonged to one of notorious cults in Japan. Therefore the mice may be an imitation of well known brand of Ergo. Kenji Arisawa E-mail: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 19:58:44 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA15421 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 19:58:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA15417 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 19:58:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007132358.TAA15417@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Silly porting fun From: "rob pike" <rob@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 19:58:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Why should I type ./configure make ? Surely make can run configure for me. -rob From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 20:14:04 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA15839 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 20:14:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from illustrious.cnchost.com (illustrious.concentric.net [207.155.252.7]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA15834 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 20:13:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from namaste.stricca.org (discordia-asy-85.rutgers.edu [128.6.251.85]) by illustrious.cnchost.com id UAA02757; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 20:13:45 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.8] Message-ID: <200007140013.UAA02757@illustrious.cnchost.com> To: rob@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Silly porting fun FROM: pip@namaste.stricca.org REPLY-TO: pip@stricca.org Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 00:18:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ggjreavzczlfrduqassisbtyzl" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ggjreavzczlfrduqassisbtyzl Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Why should I type > ./configure > make > ? > Surely make can run configure for me. I'm not arguing in defense of, or against any particular kindergarten of thought, but: Quite obviously at that point you do not even have a Makefile, so that would require a bootstrapping Makefile that gets replaced by the real Makefile that configure generates. In general you might want to call configure with certain parameters. I generally never do a ./configure right away, but do a './configure --help' or peruse some config* files to see what options I can pass to configure, 'cos I generally end up needing an option to install into a non-standard bin directory, for various reasons like I'm not doing the install as root or I need to override the default parameters 'cos I'm compiling a package for a different arch with a cross-compiler. but that's just me and I'm a weirdo. - pip --upas-ggjreavzczlfrduqassisbtyzl Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from cse.psu.edu (claven.cse.psu.edu [130.203.3.50]) by invincible.cnchost.com id TAA12438; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 19:58:54 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP MX 1.15] Errors-To: <owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA15443; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 19:58:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by claven.cse.psu.edu (bulk_mailer v1.5); Thu, 13 Jul 2000 19:58:49 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA15421 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 19:58:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA15417 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 19:58:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007132358.TAA15417@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Silly porting fun From: "rob pike" <rob@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 19:58:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Why should I type ./configure make ? Surely make can run configure for me. -rob --upas-ggjreavzczlfrduqassisbtyzl-- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 21:31:02 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA17118 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 21:31:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from diabase (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.91.52]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA17113 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 21:30:56 -0400 (EDT) From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Message-Id: <200007140130.VAA17113@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9v3 won't start (PBS...Bad format or I/O error) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:31:24 0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >Now let me go back to figure out why kenji can access his 2nd edition >and I just get "AS protocol botch"es when I try :-( I also used the (troubled) 3c509 card for BNC connector, where I have some reason which might not be concerned with others, probably. ☺ So, you mean that the 2nd edition can detect automatically where is the wire, but the new release not? I suppose I set the card BNC intentionally though... It's now over my memory. Thanks your comment. kenji From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 23:25:02 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA19304 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 23:25:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (caldo.demon.co.uk [194.222.207.148]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA19300 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 23:24:57 -0400 (EDT) From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk Message-Id: <200007140324.XAA19300@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9p "stubs" - ? Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 04:24:45 0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >> I read an article about putting Inferno into lego brick. >> There they mention styx stubs library, that allows a >> So, the question is if similar library for 9p protocol exists ? >> Taking in mind similarity of Inferno and Plan9, I guess it should >> be. i don't see why not. i haven't tried it, but i suspect we could change it to do both, since the message type values identify the protocol. we need to do a proper paper, tidy up the code and make it available. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 23:38:06 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA19618 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 23:38:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mail2.rdc2.ab.home.com (mail2.rdc2.ab.home.com [24.64.2.49]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA19612 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 23:37:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.usask.ca ([24.67.42.123]) by mail2.rdc2.ab.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <20000714033748.GEDN2976.mail2.rdc2.ab.home.com@mail.usask.ca> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 20:37:48 -0700 Message-ID: <396E8A7A.926BBEAF@mail.usask.ca> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 21:35:22 -0600 From: andrey mirtchovski <aam396@mail.usask.ca> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] cpu server troubles (hostdomain) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Hello, I just tried to setup my single machine as a cpu server and hastily disregarded to check the mailing list archive for any warnings... Unfortunately I fell in the 'hostdomain trap' -- now whenever I try to boot I get "boot: /hostdomain: illegal arg.." and panics. The fun stuff is that I am not able to boot up using a floppy too, whenever I hit return on the 'root is...: prompt the kernel panics. My questions are: is there any easy way to recover from this? i.e. how would I access the plan9.ini on sdC0 in order to change the kernel back to 9pcdisk? (I was thinking of using a different OS to write to the nvram sector but decided it's too much of a trouble and there must be an easier solution). that failing, how should I setup the plan9.ini on the floppy in order to choose the right kernel? (this I think has been asked already) start.ps wants me to 'choose a password for bootes'. does that mean I need to 'set' the password for the particular user or does it mean I need to set my mind on one, which will be set as soon as the cpu server is up? if the former, how would I do that since neither passwd not changeuser (which, I gather, should not be used before the auth server is up and running) appear to work on the single-station setup?... The following is a separate issue: Ftpfs seems to have trouble accessing files on windows-based ftp servers. Whenever I try to cp anything from U-serv or a-ftp (the two windows servers I shamefully admit to have tried) I get an error message indicating that I am accesing a directorywith the same name as the file. ls -l does not mark entries as directories initially, but after I have tried to read any one of them, the 'd' appears in front of the 'ls' output for the particular file. (oh, yes, I have been busy 'setting up' auth servers left and right and had no time to look at the issue. consider this a report, rather than a request for bugfixes) sorry for bothering if the solutions are well known.a pointer to the man pages would (should :) suffice. stupidity is proportional to persistence I guess.. :) andrey From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 23:47:56 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA19895 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 23:47:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA19885 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 23:47:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id FAA15220 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 05:47:46 +0200 (SAST) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 05:47:45 +0200 From: Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9v3 won't start (PBS...Bad format or I/O error) Message-ID: <20000714054745.F13263@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200007140130.VAA17113@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <200007140130.VAA17113@cse.psu.edu>; from okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp on Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 10:31:24AM +0000 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu I said: > > > >Now let me go back to figure out why kenji can access his 2nd edition > >and I just get "AS protocol botch"es when I try :-( To which, on Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 10:31:24AM +0000, okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote: > > I also used the (troubled) 3c509 card for BNC connector, where I have > some reason which might not be concerned with others, probably. ? > So, you mean that the 2nd edition can detect automatically where is > the wire, but the new release not? I suppose I set the card BNC intentionally > though... It's now over my memory. > No, these are two distinct problems. I have solved (?!) the 2ed problem more by chance than intent, and I now (module electrical power problems) can access the 2ed CPU and file servers moderately adequately (I would love to have drawterm help along there). As for the 3c509, I think the problem is two-fold, again. There must be some etherlink III cards that work with Jim's code out the box. But the one I have and kenji's don't, they either need to have the medium fixed or they _may_ work with the 2ed drivers. Yet others, apparently equal, work in autoselect mode. I'll have to study the adapter more closely (or ship it to Jim) to figure out what's up. Not having a working version is a problem, but NetBSD seems to cope OK, so perhaps I can use that to compare notes. ++L From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Jul 13 23:59:46 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA20192 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 23:59:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA20188 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 23:59:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007140359.XAA20188@cse.psu.edu> Received: from ovid.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.50.34]) by plan9; Thu Jul 13 23:59:39 EDT 2000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, aam396@mail.usask.ca Subject: Re: [9fans] cpu server troubles (hostdomain) From: "Russ Cox" <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 23:59:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Change the bootdisk= entry on the floppy's plan9.ini to say sdC0!9fat!9pcdisk or whatever it is. As long as you boot a terminal (rather than a cpu server), the nvram file doesn't matter. I need to 'set' the password for the particular user or does it mean I need to set my mind on one, which will be set as soon as the cpu server Just think one up, since you'll need it twice later on. I amended start.*. Russ From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 00:09:19 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA20501 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 00:09:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA20496 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 00:09:14 -0400 (EDT) From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200007140409.AAA20496@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] file server problems Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 00:09:12 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >From splite@purdue.edu: >Is the AHA-154x driver fully working in the current release? It isn't >mentioned on http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9dist/pchardware.html, and >plan9.ini(8) says under the "scsiX=value" section, "At the moment the >Adaptec 1542 is not supported." The code is there, it's subsumed in the mylex (buslogic driver). However, there's currently no code in the sd driver to parse any controller info out of plan9.ini, I hadn't decided how to do that and it fell through the cracks doing the release. That said, it's probably a good thing considering the horrible failure of vision we (forsyth and i) have found in the ISA bounce-buffer code which has been affecting people trying to use the AHA-154x in fileservers. We should have it fixed tomorrow (I'm going to sleep on it). --jim From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 03:40:13 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA23097 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 03:40:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from trachyte.chigaku6.co.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.91.52]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA23089 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 03:40:06 -0400 (EDT) From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Message-Id: <200007140740.DAA23089@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9v3 won't start (PBS...Bad format or I/O error) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 16:40:29 0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >As for the 3c509, I think the problem is two-fold, again. There must be >some etherlink III cards that work with Jim's code out the box. But the >one I have and kenji's don't, they either need to have the medium fixed >or they _may_ work with the 2ed drivers. In my case, that card worked very well with 2ed driver. After forced it work under 2ed driver, and on the same machine, I failed to boot from with 3ed driver. My poor memory is now full of rio sources, and that for ether drivers has been flushed out completely. I'll try it onece more if I could have one more terminal for us. ☺ Kenji From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 04:07:39 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA23603 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 04:07:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA23593 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 04:07:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id KAA15509 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:07:27 +0200 (SAST) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:07:25 +0200 From: Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9v3 won't start (PBS...Bad format or I/O error) Message-ID: <20000714100725.A15480@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200007140740.DAA23089@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <200007140740.DAA23089@cse.psu.edu>; from okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp on Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 04:40:29PM +0000 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 04:40:29PM +0000, okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote: > > >As for the 3c509, I think the problem is two-fold, again. There must be > >some etherlink III cards that work with Jim's code out the box. But the > >one I have and kenji's don't, they either need to have the medium fixed > >or they _may_ work with the 2ed drivers. > > In my case, that card worked very well with 2ed driver. After forced > it work under 2ed driver, and on the same machine, I failed to boot from > with 3ed driver. > I presume that applies to me too, but it's a far shot. Not today, unfortunately. Thinking about it, I'm pretty certain you're correct. OK, here's some stuff for Jim: The card's information reads: EtherLink III (c) 1996 3c509B-[ c ] ASSY: 03-0021-[ 004 ] REV- [ A ] EA=0060977E4207 SN=6FX17E4207 where I use [ ... ] to indicate a yellow area. I seem to recall the "c" above to be lower case, but I may be mistaken. It's an ISA, maybe PnP but not used as such, BNC, AUI and UTP adapter. On the main chip: 40-0130-004 9704S 15880554 LUCENT 40-01304 > My poor memory is now full of rio sources, and that for ether drivers > has been flushed out completely. I'll try it onece more if I could have > one more terminal for us. ? > The card worked fine once I changed it from "autoselect" to BNC, although I cannot prove a thing, because now it refuses to respond to the 3c5x9cfg program that I used on it. I would have liked to send Jim the disk copy of the configuration file :-( Of course, right now the adapter's working OK, but I can't try the 3Com config, because I'm using it :-( Two additional issues: (a) the card has misbehaved once I returned to the box it is normally installed in: it took a bit of effort to jolt it into operation under NetBSD (the boot loader refused to find it) after the 3Com config program also failed to see it (it hung). I seem to have fixed by juggling (violently) the BNC connector _and_ restarting "rarpd" on the server :-( Whether I could configure it now is a moot point. (b) the card used to operate in autoselect mode until I tried to use it for Plan 9 3ed. Then and now (fixed to BNC) it had the peculiarity that the NetBSD boot loader would only find it once. If the first boot failed, the bootloader needed the machine restarted (I can't recall whether RESET sufficed, it didn't a few minutes ago, but I did other horrid things, then) before locating the card. Happy hunting, I'm going away for the weekend now. ++L From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 05:29:10 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA24496 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 05:29:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA24486 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 05:29:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13D1hV-0003hd-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:24:05 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:19:49 GMT From: Kris Van Hees <kvanhees@quarterleaf.com> Message-ID: <slrn8mt2or.4uc.kvanhees@dev0.intra-quarterleaf.com> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK References: <200007130836.EAA20995@cse.psu.edu> Reply-To: kvanhees@quarterleaf.com Subject: Re: [9fans] Silly porting fun Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In article <200007130836.EAA20995@cse.psu.edu>, forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk wrote: >>>I sometimes think so too and yet...it works so very very well and >>>there is just so much software that uses it. I don't think I've ever >>>seen a configure script fail in a released program. > >i have, frequently, on Unix systems, not Plan 9. One example is trying to compile CVS (ironically, since it already got ported to Plan9 without much trouble - and not using configure) on Solaris 7. At least on all Solaris 7 machines I tried it detects that GSSAPI is available, and then during the compilation it complains because the libraries are not there. I believe it must be a case of Sun shipping the C include files but not the library or something. Anyway, it indicates how fragile configure is, even on one of the very common Unix flavours. Another thing I truly *hate* about configure is that its small components like the infamous config.guess script to create a identifier for the architecture/platform it runs on cannot be used under non-GPL distribution terms unless it is bundled with a program that contains a GNU configure script that was generated with Autoconf. Quite a ridiculous stand for people that claim to promote 'free' software, I think. Anyway, that widely off topic. What I'd like to see... mk for Unix :) Anyone here who has attempted to port it over (along with rc of course)? Kris From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 05:29:17 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA24510 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 05:29:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA24491 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 05:29:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13D1hU-0003hR-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:24:04 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:18:29 GMT From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <DAGwyn@null.net> Message-ID: <396E81E9.ADCDC12C@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200007132358.TAA15417@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Silly porting fun Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu rob pike wrote: > Why should I type > ./configure > make > ? Because in the real world it is more likely ./configure sam makefile # fix the *!#$^&@ makefile make From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 05:29:28 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA24530 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 05:29:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA24497 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 05:29:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13D1Zf-0003ZE-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:15:59 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:15:37 GMT From: peter huang <peter_huang@hp.com> Message-ID: <8kl9ig$7k2$1@web1.cup.hp.com> Organization: SSO-IT, Hewlett-Packard Co. References: <200007130836.EAA20995@cse.psu.edu>, <200007131601.MAA01725@egyptian-gods.mit.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Silly porting fun Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu "Greg Hudson" <ghudson@mit.edu> wrote in message news:200007131601.MAA01725@egyptian-gods.mit.edu... > > Plan 9 people have an incredible propensity to focus on the occasional > failure of common Unix models and ignore the successes. The > principles behind the autoconf model are: I would re-phrase that to all peoples working on machines that autoconf does not support. > > On the other side of the coin, as someone mentioned, you can try to > make your software portable without autoconf. That trick almost never > works well. You invariably wind up creating a complicated one-off > system with its own weird conventions for tweaking various build > parameters. I've played integrator for a lot of programs which take > this approach, and I've always wished that they used autoconf. again, for unix derived or like systems where autoconf is supported, autoconf is a blessing. However, once you moved off the supported platforms, that is where the break down occurs. For examples, it took 2 years before HPUX11 get supported on autoconf. Even that is not very good (32 bits verus 64 bits, gcc versus ansic ....) Configure script in OpenSSL does not use autoconf and I would like to see someone put together a configure.in file that can meet the need. My point is that autoconf is great for many general unix apps but fail short to deliver some real hard one. I perferred a simplier approach and that is why plan9 appeal to me and mk is easier to understand (if only I can find a mk on the unix). -peter From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 05:29:34 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA24546 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 05:29:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA24507 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 05:29:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13D1hT-0003h9-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:24:03 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:17:27 GMT From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <gwyn@arl.army.mil> Message-ID: <396E2AD7.F1D6E5D6@arl.army.mil> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200007131534.LAA20007@er6.rutgers.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9v3 won't start (PBS...Bad format or I/O error) Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Anthony Sorace wrote: > ... i also use a Logitech MouseMan, from just > before they all went down hill. Have you ever noticed how practically everything in this field keeps getting modified until its good features are submerged, then it stabilizes so we are stuck with the crufty version forever. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 05:29:48 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA24582 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 05:29:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA24527 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 05:29:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13D1hU-0003hF-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:24:04 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:17:47 GMT From: peter huang <peter_huang@hp.com> Message-ID: <8klbj3$8dv$1@web1.cup.hp.com> Organization: SSO-IT, Hewlett-Packard Co. References: <200007101629.MAA02049@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Problem with 2ed File Server Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On a different note on file server. What is needed to construct a SAN (storage area network) file server? It seems to be the file server had the notion of SAN before SAN ever become a buzz word. However, due to current complexity with the file server, I think a SAN based file server would be much easier for average. -peter From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 05:30:06 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA24612 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 05:30:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA24535 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 05:29:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13D1hU-0003hL-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:24:04 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:18:05 GMT From: Dave Turner <dmturner@primenet.com> Message-ID: <gnjsmskus6l8hegcprhdeghiurs4iqvabn@4ax.com> Organization: Primenet Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200007131942.PAA11942@cruiser.nevex.com> Reply-To: dmturner@primenet.com Subject: Re: [9fans] best supported vga card? Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu steve@nevex.com (Steve Kotsopoulos) wrote: >given that only mach64 and S3 Virge based cards currently support >acceleration and more than 8-bit depth, which is the best card for >the money today? I want at least 1280x1024x16 with acceleration. > >I've seen 8Meg Xpert 98 cards for $55. Best Buy had them on sale last week for $49.99 with a $10 rebate from ATI. I could not get my S3 Trio64 to work at all but the Xpert 98 works fine. Regards, Dave From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 05:30:11 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA24622 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 05:30:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA24542 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 05:29:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13D1hV-0003hX-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:24:05 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:19:30 GMT From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <DAGwyn@null.net> Message-ID: <396E836D.9A80D4D5@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200007132004.QAA12290@smtp2.fas.harvard.edu>, <Pine.LNX.4.21.0007140220190.8207-100000@cadeau.bronnikov.mccme.ru> Subject: Re: [9fans] best supported vga card? Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu George Bronnikov wrote: > I have trouble configuring my RagePro. The only working (sorta) > mode is 640x480x8, and there I have the left half of the screen > repeated twice. Assuming you have a good multisync monitor and told plan9.ini about it, that's the sort of thing that happens for an unsupported flavor of ATI chip. (I got from 3 to 5 partial panels when using a RAGE-128.) What is the specific product name of the video board, and the part name stamped on the controller chip? It might not be what you think it is.. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 05:30:17 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA24636 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 05:30:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA24556 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 05:29:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13D1hV-0003hj-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:24:05 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:20:20 GMT From: Wesley Felter <wesf@cs.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <B593FDF2.CBBA%wesf@cs.utexas.edu> Organization: Road Runner - Texas Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200007121443.KAA25866@cse.psu.edu>, <200007121455.KAA01408@egyptian-gods.mit.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Any significant gotchas? Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu in article 200007121455.KAA01408@egyptian-gods.mit.edu, Greg Hudson at ghudson@mit.edu wrote on 7/12/00 10:13 AM: >> Maybe Plan 9 can do this cleaner, maybe not, the trick is it is a >> very mutable system that isn't UNIX and offers you the opportunity >> to look at things in a different way. > > Just to relay one such idea, I'm told Solaris has introduced a > /dev/poll in recent versions. (Though it doesn't happen to be in > Solaris 7, the most recent version I have access to at the moment.) > The idea seems fairly straightforward and should scale quite well. The Linux Scalability Project has /dev/poll patches for Linux and a paper comparing poll(), /dev/poll, and queued realtime signals (which are really more like event queues than signals IMO). http://www.citi.umich.edu/projects/linux-scalability/index.html The ScalaServer project proposed another event queue API, which may be similar to the one recently adopted in FreeBSD. http://www.cs.rice.edu/CS/Systems/ScalaServer/index.html SGI has a very lightweight threads library, although I'm skeptical that it can beat the event-driven model. http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/ Wesley Felter - wesf@cs.utexas.edu From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 06:00:02 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA25806 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 06:00:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (caldo.demon.co.uk [194.222.207.148]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA25802 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 05:59:48 -0400 (EDT) From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk Message-Id: <200007140959.FAA25802@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Silly porting fun Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:58:58 0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >>What I'd like to see... mk for Unix :) Anyone here who has attempted to port >>it over (along with rc of course)? i should be making a portable version of mk available shortly from a Vita Nuova site. it's the version used to build Inferno on Unix and Windows. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 07:45:01 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA27097 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 07:45:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA27093 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 07:44:55 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200007141144.HAA27093@cse.psu.edu> Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 07:44:53 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] cpu server troubles (hostdomain) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-bunxkzkowsjnbziafjskwaybqy" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-bunxkzkowsjnbziafjskwaybqy Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ftpfs is, unfortunately, a hack and always will be because there's no defined format for the presentation of metadata in ftp. If you point me at an instance of an ftp server I can't crack correctly, I'll see if I can fix it. It worked with microsoft ftp servers we used to have but it seems to break everytime someone rereleases one of those things. --upas-bunxkzkowsjnbziafjskwaybqy Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Jul 13 23:56:21 EDT 2000 Received: from cse.psu.edu ([130.203.3.50]) by plan9; Thu Jul 13 23:56:20 EDT 2000 Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA19655; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 23:38:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by claven.cse.psu.edu (bulk_mailer v1.5); Thu, 13 Jul 2000 23:38:10 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA19618 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 23:38:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mail2.rdc2.ab.home.com (mail2.rdc2.ab.home.com [24.64.2.49]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA19612 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 23:37:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.usask.ca ([24.67.42.123]) by mail2.rdc2.ab.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <20000714033748.GEDN2976.mail2.rdc2.ab.home.com@mail.usask.ca> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 20:37:48 -0700 Message-ID: <396E8A7A.926BBEAF@mail.usask.ca> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 21:35:22 -0600 From: andrey mirtchovski <aam396@mail.usask.ca> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] cpu server troubles (hostdomain) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Hello, I just tried to setup my single machine as a cpu server and hastily disregarded to check the mailing list archive for any warnings... Unfortunately I fell in the 'hostdomain trap' -- now whenever I try to boot I get "boot: /hostdomain: illegal arg.." and panics. The fun stuff is that I am not able to boot up using a floppy too, whenever I hit return on the 'root is...: prompt the kernel panics. My questions are: is there any easy way to recover from this? i.e. how would I access the plan9.ini on sdC0 in order to change the kernel back to 9pcdisk? (I was thinking of using a different OS to write to the nvram sector but decided it's too much of a trouble and there must be an easier solution). that failing, how should I setup the plan9.ini on the floppy in order to choose the right kernel? (this I think has been asked already) start.ps wants me to 'choose a password for bootes'. does that mean I need to 'set' the password for the particular user or does it mean I need to set my mind on one, which will be set as soon as the cpu server is up? if the former, how would I do that since neither passwd not changeuser (which, I gather, should not be used before the auth server is up and running) appear to work on the single-station setup?... The following is a separate issue: Ftpfs seems to have trouble accessing files on windows-based ftp servers. Whenever I try to cp anything from U-serv or a-ftp (the two windows servers I shamefully admit to have tried) I get an error message indicating that I am accesing a directorywith the same name as the file. ls -l does not mark entries as directories initially, but after I have tried to read any one of them, the 'd' appears in front of the 'ls' output for the particular file. (oh, yes, I have been busy 'setting up' auth servers left and right and had no time to look at the issue. consider this a report, rather than a request for bugfixes) sorry for bothering if the solutions are well known.a pointer to the man pages would (should :) suffice. stupidity is proportional to persistence I guess.. :) andrey --upas-bunxkzkowsjnbziafjskwaybqy-- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 09:46:19 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA29286 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:46:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (none@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA29273 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:46:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:46:11 -0400 (EDT) From: arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp Message-Id: <200007141346.JAA29273@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Presotto, You said: >I tried this with both our file server and a local kfs as >file server and got: > >presotto@who% 8c a.c >presotto@who% 8l a.8 >presotto@who% 8.out >-1 >0 >0 > >in both cases. What exactly are you using for a file system? I understand my fault. My experiment stood on "disk/kfscmd allow". By the way, I sometimes think of Plan9 terminal that can do some important anonymous services(ftp, http, ... ). The terminal do not have any human users except host owner and allows telnet and ftp to only host owner without authentication server. Today, many servers are running on unnecessary large system. Plan9 terminal can be a handy server for personal use and can be much secure than UNIX. However kfs file system was/is not intended to be secure for such a purpose. "disk/kfscmd allow" is one of example. The command allows ALL user to do every thing to the file system. Thanks, Kenji Arisawa E-mail: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 10:04:33 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA29750 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:04:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA29746 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:04:28 -0400 (EDT) From: bobf@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200007141404.KAA29746@cse.psu.edu> Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:04:25 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Silly porting fun MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > >>What I'd like to see... mk for Unix :) Anyone here who has attempted to port > >>it over (along with rc of course)? > > i should be making a portable version of mk available shortly from a Vita Nuova site. > it's the version used to build Inferno on Unix and Windows. i should point out that the version of mk released with inferno accepts recipes in either rc or sh syntax, so it is not necessary to port rc. on windows, we use a stripped-down version of rc that sean quinlan hacked. it's not fully functional, but communicates with mk well enough to do builds. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 10:15:20 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA00139 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:15:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ocswall01.fda.gov ([198.77.181.7]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA00125 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:15:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sch1.nctr.fda.gov by ocswall01.fda.gov via smtpd (for claven.cse.psu.edu [130.203.3.50]) with SMTP; 14 Jul 2000 14:12:42 UT Received: (from sharris@localhost) by sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA16884 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:16:12 -0500 From: "Stephen C. Harris" <sharris@sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV> Message-Id: <200007141416.JAA16884@sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV> Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:16:12 +0000 (GMT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: sharris@nctr.fda.gov Subject: [9fans] command history X-Mailer: Ishmail 1.3.3-990123-linux <http://www.ishmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Anthony Sorace <anothy@eden.rutgers.edu> wrote: > //is it possible to use history and command completion with rc? > > no. rc has neither of these functions. history is the job of the > windowing system - simply snarf your previous commands, edit in > place, send them down... it's much better than the history built > into most shells Except if there's a lot of output, or you want to go back more than one command, it's sometimes hard to find your previous command in the first place. As for snarfing commands before sending, that doesn't work if you want to go back several commands. And I usually don't know I need to redo a command until I see something weird later in its output or elsewhere. What about having a keystroke or something which just scrolls rc's window back and positions the cursor exactly on the previous command ? Hit it multiple times and scroll back to earlier commands. Then you could edit them in place and send them just as before. I had been thinking I might try it as a way of learning rio. Or is there some way of doing something similar already? ciao, - Steve Harris From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 10:19:02 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA00251 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:19:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA00244 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:18:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007141418.KAA00244@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] allow From: "rob pike" <rob@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:18:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu "Allow" is a wretched thing. It was put in the original file server code for bootstrapping, and only gets turned on during administrative hell. When that code was adapted to form kfs, the same necessity led to the same solution, but it is a far more dangerous, nasty, foul thing in that context. The reason is that the stand-alone file server has a true console and is not a general-purpose operating system, while kfs runs as a traditional file server on a general-purpose machine. Better ideas (short of a superuser) are welcome. -rob From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 10:46:24 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA01051 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:46:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from illustrious.cnchost.com (illustrious.concentric.net [207.155.252.7]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA01043 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:46:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from namaste.stricca.org (discordia-asy-73.rutgers.edu [128.6.251.73]) by illustrious.cnchost.com id KAA17766; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:46:13 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.8] Message-ID: <200007141446.KAA17766@illustrious.cnchost.com> To: rob@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] allow FROM: pip@namaste.stricca.org REPLY-TO: pip@stricca.org Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:51:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-mawsurwlcycbslvftcgjtvmffg" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-mawsurwlcycbslvftcgjtvmffg Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi This may seem a bit cumbersome when you initially think about it, but : The reason 'allow' is fine on the stand-alone file fileserver is because of physical security. Is it possibly to provide a similar facility in the context of the general purpose system ? Maybe the use of smart cards might be a solution. At system configuration time, you config the system to recognize the bearer of a particular card as the admin. Whenever you need to admin the system, insert the smartcard, do stuff, pull it out, capability gone. just a thought. - pip --upas-mawsurwlcycbslvftcgjtvmffg Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from cse.psu.edu (claven.cse.psu.edu [130.203.3.50]) by hood.cnchost.com id KAA18152; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:29:28 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP MX 1.15] Errors-To: <owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA00551; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:29:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by claven.cse.psu.edu (bulk_mailer v1.5); Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:29:23 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA00251 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:19:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA00244 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:18:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007141418.KAA00244@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] allow X-UIDL: 963585007.000 From: "rob pike" <rob@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:18:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO "Allow" is a wretched thing. It was put in the original file server code for bootstrapping, and only gets turned on during administrative hell. When that code was adapted to form kfs, the same necessity led to the same solution, but it is a far more dangerous, nasty, foul thing in that context. The reason is that the stand-alone file server has a true console and is not a general-purpose operating system, while kfs runs as a traditional file server on a general-purpose machine. Better ideas (short of a superuser) are welcome. -rob --upas-mawsurwlcycbslvftcgjtvmffg-- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 10:54:00 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA01258 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:54:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA01253 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:53:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007141453.KAA01253@cse.psu.edu> Received: from ovid.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.50.34]) by plan9; Fri Jul 14 10:53:50 EDT 2000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Silly porting fun From: "Russ Cox" <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:53:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu to Plan9 without much trouble - and not using configure) on Solaris 7. At least on all Solaris 7 machines I tried it detects that GSSAPI is available, and then during the compilation it complains because the libraries are not there. I believe it must be a case of Sun shipping the C include files but not the library or something. Actually I think that part of the script is just broken. It detected GSSAPI on Plan 9 too. That was when I gave up and edited config.h.in into config.h by hand. I have a couple scripts called def and undef, and I just sit in acme piping lines through one or the other. It doesn't take very long at all. Russ From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 10:59:24 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA01491 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:59:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA01476 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:59:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13D6tJ-0001Kd-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 15:56:37 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:56:03 GMT From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <gwyn@arl.army.mil> Message-ID: <396F225D.AFD7A9B2@arl.army.mil> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200007130836.EAA20995@cse.psu.edu>, <slrn8mt2or.4uc.kvanhees@dev0.intra-quarterleaf.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Silly porting fun Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Kris Van Hees wrote: > What I'd like to see... mk for Unix :) Anyone here who has > attempted to port it over (along with rc of course)? I'm pretty sure "mk" was available from the UNIX System ToolChest, currently shipped via CD-ROM for a modest price (along with Unity DBMS, Sam, Spin, Map tools, etc., probably not current versions although I'm not sure about that). From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 12:59:19 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA05247 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 12:59:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA05243 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 12:59:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13D7gV-0003UI-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 16:47:27 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 15:41:40 GMT From: Michael Lothian <walker@sync.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <slrn8mucbr.pil.walker@avatar.sync.dyndns.org> Organization: SBC Internet Services Reply-To: darkwalker@bigfoot.com Subject: [9fans] cpu+auth server setup problem Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu I've been trying to build a combination cpu/auth server using the instructions in start.ps... I didn't have /rc/bin/service.auth/{authsrv.,}{il566, tcp567} so I tried this based on the auth.srv source: -- #!/bin/rc auth/auth.srv -d $3 -- but I can't seem to authenticate against it.. the cpu command or rx all report "writing /dev/authenticator: bad arg in system call"... Does anyone know what could be causing this? -- Michael Lothian | root@ultima-dragons.org -=(UDIC)=- (xxxxx*=======================- sync.dyndns.org | darkwalker@bigfoot.com From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 14:11:16 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA00521 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:11:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA24491 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 05:29:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13D1hU-0003hR-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:24:04 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:18:29 GMT From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <DAGwyn@null.net> Message-ID: <396E81E9.ADCDC12C@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200007132358.TAA15417@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Silly porting fun Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu rob pike wrote: > Why should I type > ./configure > make > ? Because in the real world it is more likely ./configure sam makefile # fix the *!#$^&@ makefile make From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 14:11:35 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA00598 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:11:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (caldo.demon.co.uk [194.222.207.148]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA25802 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 05:59:48 -0400 (EDT) From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk Message-Id: <200007140959.FAA25802@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Silly porting fun Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:58:58 0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >>What I'd like to see... mk for Unix :) Anyone here who has attempted to port >>it over (along with rc of course)? i should be making a portable version of mk available shortly from a Vita Nuova site. it's the version used to build Inferno on Unix and Windows. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 14:12:28 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA00719 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:12:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA24527 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 05:29:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13D1hU-0003hF-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:24:04 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:17:47 GMT From: peter huang <peter_huang@hp.com> Message-ID: <8klbj3$8dv$1@web1.cup.hp.com> Organization: SSO-IT, Hewlett-Packard Co. References: <200007101629.MAA02049@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Problem with 2ed File Server Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On a different note on file server. What is needed to construct a SAN (storage area network) file server? It seems to be the file server had the notion of SAN before SAN ever become a buzz word. However, due to current complexity with the file server, I think a SAN based file server would be much easier for average. -peter From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 14:12:50 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA00765 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:12:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA24507 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 05:29:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13D1hT-0003h9-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:24:03 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:17:27 GMT From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <gwyn@arl.army.mil> Message-ID: <396E2AD7.F1D6E5D6@arl.army.mil> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200007131534.LAA20007@er6.rutgers.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9v3 won't start (PBS...Bad format or I/O error) Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Anthony Sorace wrote: > ... i also use a Logitech MouseMan, from just > before they all went down hill. Have you ever noticed how practically everything in this field keeps getting modified until its good features are submerged, then it stabilizes so we are stuck with the crufty version forever. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 14:13:28 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA00846 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:13:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA00781 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:12:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13D8sP-0005OD-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 18:03:49 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 16:47:48 GMT From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <gwyn@arl.army.mil> Message-ID: <396F3DA4.2D1775E1@arl.army.mil> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200007141346.JAA29273@cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] Re: (none) Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp wrote: > However kfs file system was/is not intended to be secure > for such a purpose. "disk/kfscmd allow" is one of example. > The command allows ALL user to do every thing to > the file system. The simple fact is, the console user has physical access to the file storage also, so it isn't really secure anyway. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 14:14:15 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA00963 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:14:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA01476 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:59:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13D6tJ-0001Kd-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 15:56:37 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:56:03 GMT From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <gwyn@arl.army.mil> Message-ID: <396F225D.AFD7A9B2@arl.army.mil> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200007130836.EAA20995@cse.psu.edu>, <slrn8mt2or.4uc.kvanhees@dev0.intra-quarterleaf.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Silly porting fun Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Kris Van Hees wrote: > What I'd like to see... mk for Unix :) Anyone here who has > attempted to port it over (along with rc of course)? I'm pretty sure "mk" was available from the UNIX System ToolChest, currently shipped via CD-ROM for a modest price (along with Unity DBMS, Sam, Spin, Map tools, etc., probably not current versions although I'm not sure about that). From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 14:21:12 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA01642 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:21:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA29746 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:04:28 -0400 (EDT) From: bobf@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200007141404.KAA29746@cse.psu.edu> Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:04:25 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Silly porting fun MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > >>What I'd like to see... mk for Unix :) Anyone here who has attempted to port > >>it over (along with rc of course)? > > i should be making a portable version of mk available shortly from a Vita Nuova site. > it's the version used to build Inferno on Unix and Windows. i should point out that the version of mk released with inferno accepts recipes in either rc or sh syntax, so it is not necessary to port rc. on windows, we use a stripped-down version of rc that sean quinlan hacked. it's not fully functional, but communicates with mk well enough to do builds. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 14:21:29 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA01666 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:21:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from trachyte.chigaku6.co.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.91.52]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA23089 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 03:40:06 -0400 (EDT) From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Message-Id: <200007140740.DAA23089@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9v3 won't start (PBS...Bad format or I/O error) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 16:40:29 0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >As for the 3c509, I think the problem is two-fold, again. There must be >some etherlink III cards that work with Jim's code out the box. But the >one I have and kenji's don't, they either need to have the medium fixed >or they _may_ work with the 2ed drivers. In my case, that card worked very well with 2ed driver. After forced it work under 2ed driver, and on the same machine, I failed to boot from with 3ed driver. My poor memory is now full of rio sources, and that for ether drivers has been flushed out completely. I'll try it onece more if I could have one more terminal for us. ☺ Kenji From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 14:22:20 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA01757 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:22:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA01253 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:53:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007141453.KAA01253@cse.psu.edu> Received: from ovid.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.50.34]) by plan9; Fri Jul 14 10:53:50 EDT 2000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Silly porting fun From: "Russ Cox" <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:53:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu to Plan9 without much trouble - and not using configure) on Solaris 7. At least on all Solaris 7 machines I tried it detects that GSSAPI is available, and then during the compilation it complains because the libraries are not there. I believe it must be a case of Sun shipping the C include files but not the library or something. Actually I think that part of the script is just broken. It detected GSSAPI on Plan 9 too. That was when I gave up and edited config.h.in into config.h by hand. I have a couple scripts called def and undef, and I just sit in acme piping lines through one or the other. It doesn't take very long at all. Russ From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 14:23:40 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA01924 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:23:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (none@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA29273 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:46:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:46:11 -0400 (EDT) From: arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp Message-Id: <200007141346.JAA29273@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Presotto, You said: >I tried this with both our file server and a local kfs as >file server and got: > >presotto@who% 8c a.c >presotto@who% 8l a.8 >presotto@who% 8.out >-1 >0 >0 > >in both cases. What exactly are you using for a file system? I understand my fault. My experiment stood on "disk/kfscmd allow". By the way, I sometimes think of Plan9 terminal that can do some important anonymous services(ftp, http, ... ). The terminal do not have any human users except host owner and allows telnet and ftp to only host owner without authentication server. Today, many servers are running on unnecessary large system. Plan9 terminal can be a handy server for personal use and can be much secure than UNIX. However kfs file system was/is not intended to be secure for such a purpose. "disk/kfscmd allow" is one of example. The command allows ALL user to do every thing to the file system. Thanks, Kenji Arisawa E-mail: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 14:24:35 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02054 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:24:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ocswall01.fda.gov ([198.77.181.7]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA00125 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:15:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sch1.nctr.fda.gov by ocswall01.fda.gov via smtpd (for claven.cse.psu.edu [130.203.3.50]) with SMTP; 14 Jul 2000 14:12:42 UT Received: (from sharris@localhost) by sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA16884 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:16:12 -0500 From: "Stephen C. Harris" <sharris@sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV> Message-Id: <200007141416.JAA16884@sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV> Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:16:12 +0000 (GMT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: sharris@nctr.fda.gov Subject: [9fans] command history X-Mailer: Ishmail 1.3.3-990123-linux <http://www.ishmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Anthony Sorace <anothy@eden.rutgers.edu> wrote: > //is it possible to use history and command completion with rc? > > no. rc has neither of these functions. history is the job of the > windowing system - simply snarf your previous commands, edit in > place, send them down... it's much better than the history built > into most shells Except if there's a lot of output, or you want to go back more than one command, it's sometimes hard to find your previous command in the first place. As for snarfing commands before sending, that doesn't work if you want to go back several commands. And I usually don't know I need to redo a command until I see something weird later in its output or elsewhere. What about having a keystroke or something which just scrolls rc's window back and positions the cursor exactly on the previous command ? Hit it multiple times and scroll back to earlier commands. Then you could edit them in place and send them just as before. I had been thinking I might try it as a way of learning rio. Or is there some way of doing something similar already? ciao, - Steve Harris From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 14:29:31 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02593 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:29:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mail2.rdc2.ab.home.com (mail2.rdc2.ab.home.com [24.64.2.49]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA19612 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 23:37:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.usask.ca ([24.67.42.123]) by mail2.rdc2.ab.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <20000714033748.GEDN2976.mail2.rdc2.ab.home.com@mail.usask.ca> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 20:37:48 -0700 Message-ID: <396E8A7A.926BBEAF@mail.usask.ca> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 21:35:22 -0600 From: andrey mirtchovski <aam396@mail.usask.ca> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] cpu server troubles (hostdomain) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Hello, I just tried to setup my single machine as a cpu server and hastily disregarded to check the mailing list archive for any warnings... Unfortunately I fell in the 'hostdomain trap' -- now whenever I try to boot I get "boot: /hostdomain: illegal arg.." and panics. The fun stuff is that I am not able to boot up using a floppy too, whenever I hit return on the 'root is...: prompt the kernel panics. My questions are: is there any easy way to recover from this? i.e. how would I access the plan9.ini on sdC0 in order to change the kernel back to 9pcdisk? (I was thinking of using a different OS to write to the nvram sector but decided it's too much of a trouble and there must be an easier solution). that failing, how should I setup the plan9.ini on the floppy in order to choose the right kernel? (this I think has been asked already) start.ps wants me to 'choose a password for bootes'. does that mean I need to 'set' the password for the particular user or does it mean I need to set my mind on one, which will be set as soon as the cpu server is up? if the former, how would I do that since neither passwd not changeuser (which, I gather, should not be used before the auth server is up and running) appear to work on the single-station setup?... The following is a separate issue: Ftpfs seems to have trouble accessing files on windows-based ftp servers. Whenever I try to cp anything from U-serv or a-ftp (the two windows servers I shamefully admit to have tried) I get an error message indicating that I am accesing a directorywith the same name as the file. ls -l does not mark entries as directories initially, but after I have tried to read any one of them, the 'd' appears in front of the 'ls' output for the particular file. (oh, yes, I have been busy 'setting up' auth servers left and right and had no time to look at the issue. consider this a report, rather than a request for bugfixes) sorry for bothering if the solutions are well known.a pointer to the man pages would (should :) suffice. stupidity is proportional to persistence I guess.. :) andrey From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 14:30:01 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02652 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:30:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA23593 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 04:07:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id KAA15509 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:07:27 +0200 (SAST) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:07:25 +0200 From: Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9v3 won't start (PBS...Bad format or I/O error) Message-ID: <20000714100725.A15480@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200007140740.DAA23089@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <200007140740.DAA23089@cse.psu.edu>; from okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp on Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 04:40:29PM +0000 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 04:40:29PM +0000, okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote: > > >As for the 3c509, I think the problem is two-fold, again. There must be > >some etherlink III cards that work with Jim's code out the box. But the > >one I have and kenji's don't, they either need to have the medium fixed > >or they _may_ work with the 2ed drivers. > > In my case, that card worked very well with 2ed driver. After forced > it work under 2ed driver, and on the same machine, I failed to boot from > with 3ed driver. > I presume that applies to me too, but it's a far shot. Not today, unfortunately. Thinking about it, I'm pretty certain you're correct. OK, here's some stuff for Jim: The card's information reads: EtherLink III (c) 1996 3c509B-[ c ] ASSY: 03-0021-[ 004 ] REV- [ A ] EA=0060977E4207 SN=6FX17E4207 where I use [ ... ] to indicate a yellow area. I seem to recall the "c" above to be lower case, but I may be mistaken. It's an ISA, maybe PnP but not used as such, BNC, AUI and UTP adapter. On the main chip: 40-0130-004 9704S 15880554 LUCENT 40-01304 > My poor memory is now full of rio sources, and that for ether drivers > has been flushed out completely. I'll try it onece more if I could have > one more terminal for us. ? > The card worked fine once I changed it from "autoselect" to BNC, although I cannot prove a thing, because now it refuses to respond to the 3c5x9cfg program that I used on it. I would have liked to send Jim the disk copy of the configuration file :-( Of course, right now the adapter's working OK, but I can't try the 3Com config, because I'm using it :-( Two additional issues: (a) the card has misbehaved once I returned to the box it is normally installed in: it took a bit of effort to jolt it into operation under NetBSD (the boot loader refused to find it) after the 3Com config program also failed to see it (it hung). I seem to have fixed by juggling (violently) the BNC connector _and_ restarting "rarpd" on the server :-( Whether I could configure it now is a moot point. (b) the card used to operate in autoselect mode until I tried to use it for Plan 9 3ed. Then and now (fixed to BNC) it had the peculiarity that the NetBSD boot loader would only find it once. If the first boot failed, the bootloader needed the machine restarted (I can't recall whether RESET sufficed, it didn't a few minutes ago, but I did other horrid things, then) before locating the card. Happy hunting, I'm going away for the weekend now. ++L From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 14:30:09 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02662 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:30:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from illustrious.cnchost.com (illustrious.concentric.net [207.155.252.7]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA01043 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:46:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from namaste.stricca.org (discordia-asy-73.rutgers.edu [128.6.251.73]) by illustrious.cnchost.com id KAA17766; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:46:13 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.8] Message-ID: <200007141446.KAA17766@illustrious.cnchost.com> To: rob@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] allow FROM: pip@namaste.stricca.org REPLY-TO: pip@stricca.org Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:51:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-mawsurwlcycbslvftcgjtvmffg" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-mawsurwlcycbslvftcgjtvmffg Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi This may seem a bit cumbersome when you initially think about it, but : The reason 'allow' is fine on the stand-alone file fileserver is because of physical security. Is it possibly to provide a similar facility in the context of the general purpose system ? Maybe the use of smart cards might be a solution. At system configuration time, you config the system to recognize the bearer of a particular card as the admin. Whenever you need to admin the system, insert the smartcard, do stuff, pull it out, capability gone. just a thought. - pip --upas-mawsurwlcycbslvftcgjtvmffg Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from cse.psu.edu (claven.cse.psu.edu [130.203.3.50]) by hood.cnchost.com id KAA18152; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:29:28 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP MX 1.15] Errors-To: <owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA00551; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:29:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by claven.cse.psu.edu (bulk_mailer v1.5); Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:29:23 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA00251 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:19:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA00244 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:18:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007141418.KAA00244@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] allow X-UIDL: 963585007.000 From: "rob pike" <rob@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:18:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO "Allow" is a wretched thing. It was put in the original file server code for bootstrapping, and only gets turned on during administrative hell. When that code was adapted to form kfs, the same necessity led to the same solution, but it is a far more dangerous, nasty, foul thing in that context. The reason is that the stand-alone file server has a true console and is not a general-purpose operating system, while kfs runs as a traditional file server on a general-purpose machine. Better ideas (short of a superuser) are welcome. -rob --upas-mawsurwlcycbslvftcgjtvmffg-- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 14:42:24 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA03898 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:42:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA03890 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:42:18 -0400 (EDT) From: dhog@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200007141842.OAA03890@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Silly porting fun Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:42:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Oh no, the echo is back. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 14:45:08 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA01202 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:16:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (caldo.demon.co.uk [194.222.207.148]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA19300 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 23:24:57 -0400 (EDT) From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk Message-Id: <200007140324.XAA19300@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9p "stubs" - ? Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 04:24:45 0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >> I read an article about putting Inferno into lego brick. >> There they mention styx stubs library, that allows a >> So, the question is if similar library for 9p protocol exists ? >> Taking in mind similarity of Inferno and Plan9, I guess it should >> be. i don't see why not. i haven't tried it, but i suspect we could change it to do both, since the message type values identify the protocol. we need to do a proper paper, tidy up the code and make it available. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 14:47:43 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA01507 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:19:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA00244 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:18:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007141418.KAA00244@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] allow From: "rob pike" <rob@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:18:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu "Allow" is a wretched thing. It was put in the original file server code for bootstrapping, and only gets turned on during administrative hell. When that code was adapted to form kfs, the same necessity led to the same solution, but it is a far more dangerous, nasty, foul thing in that context. The reason is that the stand-alone file server has a true console and is not a general-purpose operating system, while kfs runs as a traditional file server on a general-purpose machine. Better ideas (short of a superuser) are welcome. -rob From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 14:49:55 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA01056 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:15:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA20188 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 23:59:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007140359.XAA20188@cse.psu.edu> Received: from ovid.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.50.34]) by plan9; Thu Jul 13 23:59:39 EDT 2000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, aam396@mail.usask.ca Subject: Re: [9fans] cpu server troubles (hostdomain) From: "Russ Cox" <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 23:59:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Change the bootdisk= entry on the floppy's plan9.ini to say sdC0!9fat!9pcdisk or whatever it is. As long as you boot a terminal (rather than a cpu server), the nvram file doesn't matter. I need to 'set' the password for the particular user or does it mean I need to set my mind on one, which will be set as soon as the cpu server Just think one up, since you'll need it twice later on. I amended start.*. Russ From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 14:52:27 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA01586 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:20:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA05243 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 12:59:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13D7gV-0003UI-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 16:47:27 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 15:41:40 GMT From: Michael Lothian <walker@sync.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <slrn8mucbr.pil.walker@avatar.sync.dyndns.org> Organization: SBC Internet Services Reply-To: darkwalker@bigfoot.com Subject: [9fans] cpu+auth server setup problem Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu I've been trying to build a combination cpu/auth server using the instructions in start.ps... I didn't have /rc/bin/service.auth/{authsrv.,}{il566, tcp567} so I tried this based on the auth.srv source: -- #!/bin/rc auth/auth.srv -d $3 -- but I can't seem to authenticate against it.. the cpu command or rx all report "writing /dev/authenticator: bad arg in system call"... Does anyone know what could be causing this? -- Michael Lothian | root@ultima-dragons.org -=(UDIC)=- (xxxxx*=======================- sync.dyndns.org | darkwalker@bigfoot.com From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 14:54:48 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA01366 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:18:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA24535 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 05:29:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13D1hU-0003hL-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:24:04 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:18:05 GMT From: Dave Turner <dmturner@primenet.com> Message-ID: <gnjsmskus6l8hegcprhdeghiurs4iqvabn@4ax.com> Organization: Primenet Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200007131942.PAA11942@cruiser.nevex.com> Reply-To: dmturner@primenet.com Subject: Re: [9fans] best supported vga card? Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu steve@nevex.com (Steve Kotsopoulos) wrote: >given that only mach64 and S3 Virge based cards currently support >acceleration and more than 8-bit depth, which is the best card for >the money today? I want at least 1280x1024x16 with acceleration. > >I've seen 8Meg Xpert 98 cards for $55. Best Buy had them on sale last week for $49.99 with a $10 rebate from ATI. I could not get my S3 Trio64 to work at all but the Xpert 98 works fine. Regards, Dave From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 14:57:25 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA01854 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:23:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA20496 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 00:09:14 -0400 (EDT) From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200007140409.AAA20496@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] file server problems Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 00:09:12 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >From splite@purdue.edu: >Is the AHA-154x driver fully working in the current release? It isn't >mentioned on http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9dist/pchardware.html, and >plan9.ini(8) says under the "scsiX=value" section, "At the moment the >Adaptec 1542 is not supported." The code is there, it's subsumed in the mylex (buslogic driver). However, there's currently no code in the sd driver to parse any controller info out of plan9.ini, I hadn't decided how to do that and it fell through the cracks doing the release. That said, it's probably a good thing considering the horrible failure of vision we (forsyth and i) have found in the ISA bounce-buffer code which has been affecting people trying to use the AHA-154x in fileservers. We should have it fixed tomorrow (I'm going to sleep on it). --jim From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 14:58:34 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA01607 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:20:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA01485 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:59:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13D6tI-0001KX-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 15:56:36 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:55:43 GMT From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <gwyn@arl.army.mil> Message-ID: <396F216C.2B0F8D57@arl.army.mil> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200007121443.KAA25866@cse.psu.edu>, <200007121455.KAA01408@egyptian-gods.mit.edu>, <B593FDF2.CBBA%wesf@cs.utexas.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Any significant gotchas? Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wesley Felter wrote: > The ScalaServer project proposed another event queue API, which may be > similar to the one recently adopted in FreeBSD. > [etc.] The thing is, Plan 9 is exploring how much can be done using the generalized file access model (9P), not how many different types of things can be crammed into the system. If it can indeed be shown that efficient Web service (for example) is impossible using that model, that is useful and important information. I don't think that has yet been demonstrated. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 14:59:59 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA01617 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:20:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA24542 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 05:29:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13D1hV-0003hX-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:24:05 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:19:30 GMT From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <DAGwyn@null.net> Message-ID: <396E836D.9A80D4D5@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200007132004.QAA12290@smtp2.fas.harvard.edu>, <Pine.LNX.4.21.0007140220190.8207-100000@cadeau.bronnikov.mccme.ru> Subject: Re: [9fans] best supported vga card? Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu George Bronnikov wrote: > I have trouble configuring my RagePro. The only working (sorta) > mode is 640x480x8, and there I have the left half of the screen > repeated twice. Assuming you have a good multisync monitor and told plan9.ini about it, that's the sort of thing that happens for an unsupported flavor of ATI chip. (I got from 3 to 5 partial panels when using a RAGE-128.) What is the specific product name of the video board, and the part name stamped on the controller chip? It might not be what you think it is.. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 15:01:30 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA03465 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:36:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mx.mccme.ru (mx.mccme.ru [195.178.198.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA03324 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:35:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.mccme.ru (ns.mccme.ru [195.133.68.22]) by mx.mccme.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA83977 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 22:12:07 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from goga@cadeau.bronnikov.mccme.ru) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by ns.mccme.ru (8.8.5/8.8.5) with UUCP id UAA06314 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 20:41:28 +0400 Received: from localhost (goga@localhost) by cadeau.bronnikov.mccme.ru (8.9.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA00828 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 21:52:25 +0400 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 21:52:25 +0400 (MSD) From: George Bronnikov <goga@rgs.mccme.ru> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] best supported vga card? In-Reply-To: <396E836D.9A80D4D5@null.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0007142146470.796-100000@cadeau.bronnikov.mccme.ru> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > > I have trouble configuring my RagePro. The only working (sorta) > > mode is 640x480x8, and there I have the left half of the screen > > repeated twice. > Assuming you have a good multisync monitor and told plan9.ini > about it, that's the sort of thing that happens for an unsupported > flavor of ATI chip. (I got from 3 to 5 partial panels when using > a RAGE-128.) What is the specific product name of the video board, > and the part name stamped on the controller chip? It might not be > what you think it is.. On the video board: PN 109-40200-01 AMC ver 2.0 On the chip: 3D RAGE PRO AGP 2X 215R3BUA22 B9Y73 9747SS TAIWAN (Sorry, I have no idea which part of all this may be significant). XFree86 runs on it using the Mach64 driver. George From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 15:03:01 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA00139 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:15:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ocswall01.fda.gov ([198.77.181.7]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA00125 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:15:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sch1.nctr.fda.gov by ocswall01.fda.gov via smtpd (for claven.cse.psu.edu [130.203.3.50]) with SMTP; 14 Jul 2000 14:12:42 UT Received: (from sharris@localhost) by sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA16884 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:16:12 -0500 From: "Stephen C. Harris" <sharris@sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV> Message-Id: <200007141416.JAA16884@sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV> Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:16:12 +0000 (GMT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: sharris@nctr.fda.gov Subject: [9fans] command history X-Mailer: Ishmail 1.3.3-990123-linux <http://www.ishmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Anthony Sorace <anothy@eden.rutgers.edu> wrote: > //is it possible to use history and command completion with rc? > > no. rc has neither of these functions. history is the job of the > windowing system - simply snarf your previous commands, edit in > place, send them down... it's much better than the history built > into most shells Except if there's a lot of output, or you want to go back more than one command, it's sometimes hard to find your previous command in the first place. As for snarfing commands before sending, that doesn't work if you want to go back several commands. And I usually don't know I need to redo a command until I see something weird later in its output or elsewhere. What about having a keystroke or something which just scrolls rc's window back and positions the cursor exactly on the previous command ? Hit it multiple times and scroll back to earlier commands. Then you could edit them in place and send them just as before. I had been thinking I might try it as a way of learning rio. Or is there some way of doing something similar already? ciao, - Steve Harris From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 15:03:14 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA06029 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 15:03:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from aspen.cs.unr.edu (aspen.cs.unr.edu [134.197.40.251]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA05940 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 15:02:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from banyan.cs.unr.edu (banyan.cs.unr.edu [134.197.40.54]) by aspen.cs.unr.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id MAA11962 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 12:02:16 -0700 (PDT) From: "Louis N. Beleos" <beleos@cs.unr.edu> Received: (from beleos@localhost) by banyan.cs.unr.edu (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id MAA19718; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 12:02:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 12:02:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200007141902.MAA19718@banyan.cs.unr.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9v3 won't start (PBS...Bad format or I/O error) X-Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <200007131411.KAA28370@cse.psu.edu> Organization: University of Nevada,Reno Department of Computer Science User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980514 (UNIX) (SunOS/5.7 (sun4u)) Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In article <200007131411.KAA28370@cse.psu.edu> you wrote: : >really, invest in a good three : >button mouse. : >: anothy; : of course, that's correct. however, can someone suggest where such a mouse can : be found? my old left-handed logitechs are wearing out. : --jim Logitech "FirstMouse" (currently at CompUSA for $14.99) is a three button, hand-neutral, serial/ps2 port mouse that works fine under Plan 9. -- Louis beleos@cs.unr.edu From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 15:06:26 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02179 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:25:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA24556 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 05:29:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13D1hV-0003hj-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:24:05 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:20:20 GMT From: Wesley Felter <wesf@cs.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <B593FDF2.CBBA%wesf@cs.utexas.edu> Organization: Road Runner - Texas Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200007121443.KAA25866@cse.psu.edu>, <200007121455.KAA01408@egyptian-gods.mit.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Any significant gotchas? Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu in article 200007121455.KAA01408@egyptian-gods.mit.edu, Greg Hudson at ghudson@mit.edu wrote on 7/12/00 10:13 AM: >> Maybe Plan 9 can do this cleaner, maybe not, the trick is it is a >> very mutable system that isn't UNIX and offers you the opportunity >> to look at things in a different way. > > Just to relay one such idea, I'm told Solaris has introduced a > /dev/poll in recent versions. (Though it doesn't happen to be in > Solaris 7, the most recent version I have access to at the moment.) > The idea seems fairly straightforward and should scale quite well. The Linux Scalability Project has /dev/poll patches for Linux and a paper comparing poll(), /dev/poll, and queued realtime signals (which are really more like event queues than signals IMO). http://www.citi.umich.edu/projects/linux-scalability/index.html The ScalaServer project proposed another event queue API, which may be similar to the one recently adopted in FreeBSD. http://www.cs.rice.edu/CS/Systems/ScalaServer/index.html SGI has a very lightweight threads library, although I'm skeptical that it can beat the event-driven model. http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/ Wesley Felter - wesf@cs.utexas.edu From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 15:09:38 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02422 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:27:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA24486 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 05:29:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13D1hV-0003hd-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:24:05 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:19:49 GMT From: Kris Van Hees <kvanhees@quarterleaf.com> Message-ID: <slrn8mt2or.4uc.kvanhees@dev0.intra-quarterleaf.com> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK References: <200007130836.EAA20995@cse.psu.edu> Reply-To: kvanhees@quarterleaf.com Subject: Re: [9fans] Silly porting fun Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In article <200007130836.EAA20995@cse.psu.edu>, forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk wrote: >>>I sometimes think so too and yet...it works so very very well and >>>there is just so much software that uses it. I don't think I've ever >>>seen a configure script fail in a released program. > >i have, frequently, on Unix systems, not Plan 9. One example is trying to compile CVS (ironically, since it already got ported to Plan9 without much trouble - and not using configure) on Solaris 7. At least on all Solaris 7 machines I tried it detects that GSSAPI is available, and then during the compilation it complains because the libraries are not there. I believe it must be a case of Sun shipping the C include files but not the library or something. Anyway, it indicates how fragile configure is, even on one of the very common Unix flavours. Another thing I truly *hate* about configure is that its small components like the infamous config.guess script to create a identifier for the architecture/platform it runs on cannot be used under non-GPL distribution terms unless it is bundled with a program that contains a GNU configure script that was generated with Autoconf. Quite a ridiculous stand for people that claim to promote 'free' software, I think. Anyway, that widely off topic. What I'd like to see... mk for Unix :) Anyone here who has attempted to port it over (along with rc of course)? Kris From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 15:12:28 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02327 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:26:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA19885 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 23:47:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id FAA15220 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 05:47:46 +0200 (SAST) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 05:47:45 +0200 From: Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9v3 won't start (PBS...Bad format or I/O error) Message-ID: <20000714054745.F13263@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200007140130.VAA17113@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <200007140130.VAA17113@cse.psu.edu>; from okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp on Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 10:31:24AM +0000 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu I said: > > > >Now let me go back to figure out why kenji can access his 2nd edition > >and I just get "AS protocol botch"es when I try :-( To which, on Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 10:31:24AM +0000, okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote: > > I also used the (troubled) 3c509 card for BNC connector, where I have > some reason which might not be concerned with others, probably. ? > So, you mean that the 2nd edition can detect automatically where is > the wire, but the new release not? I suppose I set the card BNC intentionally > though... It's now over my memory. > No, these are two distinct problems. I have solved (?!) the 2ed problem more by chance than intent, and I now (module electrical power problems) can access the 2ed CPU and file servers moderately adequately (I would love to have drawterm help along there). As for the 3c509, I think the problem is two-fold, again. There must be some etherlink III cards that work with Jim's code out the box. But the one I have and kenji's don't, they either need to have the medium fixed or they _may_ work with the 2ed drivers. Yet others, apparently equal, work in autoselect mode. I'll have to study the adapter more closely (or ship it to Jim) to figure out what's up. Not having a working version is a problem, but NetBSD seems to cope OK, so perhaps I can use that to compare notes. ++L From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 15:13:40 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02525 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:28:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA24497 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 05:29:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13D1Zf-0003ZE-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:15:59 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:15:37 GMT From: peter huang <peter_huang@hp.com> Message-ID: <8kl9ig$7k2$1@web1.cup.hp.com> Organization: SSO-IT, Hewlett-Packard Co. References: <200007130836.EAA20995@cse.psu.edu>, <200007131601.MAA01725@egyptian-gods.mit.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Silly porting fun Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu "Greg Hudson" <ghudson@mit.edu> wrote in message news:200007131601.MAA01725@egyptian-gods.mit.edu... > > Plan 9 people have an incredible propensity to focus on the occasional > failure of common Unix models and ignore the successes. The > principles behind the autoconf model are: I would re-phrase that to all peoples working on machines that autoconf does not support. > > On the other side of the coin, as someone mentioned, you can try to > make your software portable without autoconf. That trick almost never > works well. You invariably wind up creating a complicated one-off > system with its own weird conventions for tweaking various build > parameters. I've played integrator for a lot of programs which take > this approach, and I've always wished that they used autoconf. again, for unix derived or like systems where autoconf is supported, autoconf is a blessing. However, once you moved off the supported platforms, that is where the break down occurs. For examples, it took 2 years before HPUX11 get supported on autoconf. Even that is not very good (32 bits verus 64 bits, gcc versus ansic ....) Configure script in OpenSSL does not use autoconf and I would like to see someone put together a configure.in file that can meet the need. My point is that autoconf is great for many general unix apps but fail short to deliver some real hard one. I perferred a simplier approach and that is why plan9 appeal to me and mk is easier to understand (if only I can find a mk on the unix). -peter From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 15:14:35 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA07173 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 15:14:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ocswall2.fda.gov ([198.77.181.8]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA07149 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 15:14:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sch1.nctr.fda.gov by ocswall2.fda.gov via smtpd (for claven.cse.psu.edu [130.203.3.50]) with SMTP; 14 Jul 2000 19:13:55 UT Received: (from sharris@localhost) by sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA19065; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:15:20 -0500 From: "Stephen C. Harris" <sharris@sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV> Message-Id: <200007141915.OAA19065@sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV> Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 19:15:20 +0000 (GMT) To: rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com Cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: sharris@nctr.fda.gov Subject: Re[2]: [9fans] command history In-Reply-To: <200007141856.OAA09255@smtp1.fas.harvard.edu> X-Mailer: Ishmail 1.3.3-990123-linux <http://www.ishmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu "Russ Cox" <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com> wrote: > I find that the " script I posted earlier > provides exactly that need in quite an > elegant way. Did you forget to type the name, or is it really named '"' (interesting choice) ? ;) I'd like to try your script. Do you remember the script name, or approx-date, or what the thread was about? ( I apologize, I just joined 9fans and my usenet server is terrible ). -Steve From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 15:15:11 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02843 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:31:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA27093 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 07:44:55 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200007141144.HAA27093@cse.psu.edu> Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 07:44:53 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] cpu server troubles (hostdomain) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-bunxkzkowsjnbziafjskwaybqy" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-bunxkzkowsjnbziafjskwaybqy Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ftpfs is, unfortunately, a hack and always will be because there's no defined format for the presentation of metadata in ftp. If you point me at an instance of an ftp server I can't crack correctly, I'll see if I can fix it. It worked with microsoft ftp servers we used to have but it seems to break everytime someone rereleases one of those things. --upas-bunxkzkowsjnbziafjskwaybqy Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Jul 13 23:56:21 EDT 2000 Received: from cse.psu.edu ([130.203.3.50]) by plan9; Thu Jul 13 23:56:20 EDT 2000 Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA19655; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 23:38:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by claven.cse.psu.edu (bulk_mailer v1.5); Thu, 13 Jul 2000 23:38:10 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA19618 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 23:38:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mail2.rdc2.ab.home.com (mail2.rdc2.ab.home.com [24.64.2.49]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA19612 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 23:37:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.usask.ca ([24.67.42.123]) by mail2.rdc2.ab.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <20000714033748.GEDN2976.mail2.rdc2.ab.home.com@mail.usask.ca> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 20:37:48 -0700 Message-ID: <396E8A7A.926BBEAF@mail.usask.ca> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 21:35:22 -0600 From: andrey mirtchovski <aam396@mail.usask.ca> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] cpu server troubles (hostdomain) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Hello, I just tried to setup my single machine as a cpu server and hastily disregarded to check the mailing list archive for any warnings... Unfortunately I fell in the 'hostdomain trap' -- now whenever I try to boot I get "boot: /hostdomain: illegal arg.." and panics. The fun stuff is that I am not able to boot up using a floppy too, whenever I hit return on the 'root is...: prompt the kernel panics. My questions are: is there any easy way to recover from this? i.e. how would I access the plan9.ini on sdC0 in order to change the kernel back to 9pcdisk? (I was thinking of using a different OS to write to the nvram sector but decided it's too much of a trouble and there must be an easier solution). that failing, how should I setup the plan9.ini on the floppy in order to choose the right kernel? (this I think has been asked already) start.ps wants me to 'choose a password for bootes'. does that mean I need to 'set' the password for the particular user or does it mean I need to set my mind on one, which will be set as soon as the cpu server is up? if the former, how would I do that since neither passwd not changeuser (which, I gather, should not be used before the auth server is up and running) appear to work on the single-station setup?... The following is a separate issue: Ftpfs seems to have trouble accessing files on windows-based ftp servers. Whenever I try to cp anything from U-serv or a-ftp (the two windows servers I shamefully admit to have tried) I get an error message indicating that I am accesing a directorywith the same name as the file. ls -l does not mark entries as directories initially, but after I have tried to read any one of them, the 'd' appears in front of the 'ls' output for the particular file. (oh, yes, I have been busy 'setting up' auth servers left and right and had no time to look at the issue. consider this a report, rather than a request for bugfixes) sorry for bothering if the solutions are well known.a pointer to the man pages would (should :) suffice. stupidity is proportional to persistence I guess.. :) andrey --upas-bunxkzkowsjnbziafjskwaybqy-- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 15:28:34 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA07698 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 15:19:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from bio.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA07627 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 15:18:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 18682 invoked by uid 991); 14 Jul 2000 19:18:26 -0000 Message-ID: <20000714191826.18681.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> From: "Scott Schwartz" <schwartz@bio.cse.psu.edu> Date: 14 Jul 2000 15:18:26 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] empty or duplicated messages Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu It looks like sendmail and majordomo on cse.psu.edu have decided to go berserk today. Hopefully their keepers will soon get them calmed down again. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 15:44:41 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA08959 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 15:44:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from smtp4.fas.harvard.edu (root@smtp4.fas.harvard.edu [140.247.30.84]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA08952 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 15:44:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from poodle-pc.deas.harvard.edu (poodle-pc.deas.harvard.edu [140.247.51.128]) by smtp4.fas.harvard.edu with SMTP id PAA10139 Message-Id: <200007141944.PAA10139@smtp4.fas.harvard.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, sharris@sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV Subject: Re: [9fans] command history From: "Russ Cox" <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 15:44:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu It really is called ". I posted it yesterday. If you wait a couple hours it will probably come by again, now that the echo is back. I'll send you a copy separately though. The " is, I believe, a reference to the common shorthand meaning ``same as line above''. Russ From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 17:03:25 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA11137 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 17:03:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ohio.river.org (river.org [209.24.233.15]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA11133 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 17:03:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from ru@localhost) by ohio.river.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA06763; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:03:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:03:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200007142103.OAA06763@ohio.river.org> From: Richard Uhtenwoldt <ru@ohio.river.org> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] command history In-Reply-To: <200007141416.JAA16884@sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV> References: <200007141416.JAA16884@sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Stephen C. Harris writes: >Anthony Sorace <anothy@eden.rutgers.edu> wrote: >> //is it possible to use history and command completion with rc? >> >> no. rc has neither of these functions. history is the job of the >> windowing system - simply snarf your previous commands, edit in >> place, send them down... it's much better than the history built >> into most shells > >Except if there's a lot of output, or you want to go back more than one >command, it's sometimes hard to find your previous command in the first >place. I'm a Plan 9 newbie, but in case no one else has any other suggestions I thought I'd mention ILE, which I learned of on the rc mailing list. ile lets you scroll line by line up and down the commandline history and also to search backwards through the history. on a user-interface note, the search command is modeless; in contrast, bash's search command (^s) is modal. ile has filename completion (it looks at Linux /proc to determine the shell's cwd), but of course we know that the Plan 9 way is not filename completion but rather, e.g., to get the name of the file in an Acme window where you can click on it with button 3 of the mouse. it also has a bunch of affordances --delete_word and such-- for editing a command line --a task that in the Plan 9 style is done with a mouse and Rio. on Linux, ile uses a pty. on Plan 9, ILE could modify the /dev/cons that rc sees. i.e., instead of rio invoking "rc", rio could invoke "ile;rc" where the only effect of the ile command is to bind /dev/cons to a fileserver which stores the commandline history and interprets the history-editing commands. that way, no modification to rc or rio would be needed: ile would "sit between" rio and rc. from the readme of "ile-linux.tgz": README FOR LINUX VERSION OF ile -- INPUT LINE EDITOR This is a port/enhancement of Rob Pendelton's ILE pty front end to the Linux OS. I myself mostly use it for 'rc' -- the unix port of the USL plan 9 shell -- because it has no builtin line editing, and for ash the excellent enhanced /bin/sh clone which also has no line editing. I used to use it for 'ftp', but then I got ncftp. I've found it to work more reliably than 'atty' another popular front end, though its source code is probably less modular. It is nearly seven years old (much older than Linux itself in fact ;-) but it works with Linux' pty's. I have a lot of ideas for enhancements, but I don't know if I'll get around to them. I call this the Linux version because it uses /proc/*/cwd for filename completions which is *much* cleaner than any other pty-front end has at present. (They mostly use generous assumptions that the underlying process is a shell and prints out prompts and can send codes in the prompts saying what the directory is, etc.) Charles Blake, 07/28/1994 From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 17:37:27 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA12001 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 17:37:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from smtp3.fas.harvard.edu (root@smtp3.fas.harvard.edu [140.247.30.83]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA11997 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 17:37:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from poodle-pc.deas.harvard.edu (poodle-pc.deas.harvard.edu [140.247.51.128]) by smtp3.fas.harvard.edu with SMTP id RAA26997; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 17:37:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007142137.RAA26997@smtp3.fas.harvard.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] command history From: "Russ Cox" <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 17:37:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu it also has a bunch of affordances --delete_word and such-- for editing a command line --a task that in the Plan 9 style is done with a mouse and Rio. ^w will delete the current word, in the editors and in rio. and ^u the current line. be careful though: ^w deletes the current _window_ in microsoft-land, which is bad news once your fingers get trained. some people said they didn't get this yesterday, so since i'm talking... g% cat /usr/rsc/bin/rc/" #!/bin/rc { if(test -r /mnt/acme/acme/body) cat /mnt/acme/acme/body if not cat /dev/text } | grep '^[^ ]*%[ ]*'$1 | {echo; cat} | pr -t -n | sort -u +1 | sort -n | sed 's/^ *[0-9]+ //' | grep . # the silly {echo; cat} gets around pr printing "empty file" when # presented with no input. g% for example: g% " mk >>> g% mk >>> g% mk test g% shows the commands i've run in this window that begin with "mk", ripe for editing or resending. (except the >>>'s don't get printed in real life). From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 17:40:19 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA12135 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 17:40:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ohio.river.org (river.org [209.24.233.15]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA12130 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 17:40:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from ru@localhost) by ohio.river.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA07055; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:25:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:25:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200007142125.OAA07055@ohio.river.org> From: Richard Uhtenwoldt <ru@ohio.river.org> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] command history In-Reply-To: <200007142103.OAA06763@ohio.river.org> References: <200007141416.JAA16884@sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV> <200007142103.OAA06763@ohio.river.org> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu I just wrote: > instead of rio invoking "rc", rio could invoke >"ile;rc" where the only effect of the ile command is to bind /dev/cons >to a fileserver which stores the commandline history and interprets the >history-editing commands. that way, no modification to rc or rio would >be needed: ile would "sit between" rio and rc. ignore this. when I wrote this I did not consider that rio sends whole lines to rc, not individual keystrokes. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 19:24:45 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA13840 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 19:24:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ohio.river.org (river.org [209.24.233.15]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA13835 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 19:24:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from ru@localhost) by ohio.river.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA08780; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 16:24:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 16:24:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200007142324.QAA08780@ohio.river.org> From: Richard <ru@ohio.river.org> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] command history In-Reply-To: <200007142137.RAA26997@smtp3.fas.harvard.edu> References: <200007142137.RAA26997@smtp3.fas.harvard.edu> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu I wrote: > it also has a bunch of affordances --delete_word and such-- for editing > a command line --a task that in the Plan 9 style is done with a mouse > and Rio. Russ Cox writes: >^w will delete the current word, >in the editors and in rio. and ^u >the current line. good point. so let me clarify. ile recognized the following commands, some of which are not in the Plan 9 style because they do things the mouse can easily do, like move the cursor. what is slightly Plan 9ish about ile is that it "sits between" the terminal emulator and the shell (or any other cooked-mode program). this got me thinking that a Plan-9 port of ile could sit between a rio window and rc (or any other line-at-a-time program). just a suggestion. ^B - backward_char ^E - end_of_line ^F - forward_char ^K - erase_to_end_of_line ^L - retype_line ^N - forward_history ^P - backward_history ^R - search_backward_history ^V - quote ^T - transpose_chars del - delete_char ^M - add_to_history ^J - add_to_history ^U - erase_line ^X - delete_char_under esc b - backward_word esc f - forward_word esc del - delete_word esc esc - complete_file esc s - complete_file_full esc p - query_path esc d - show_files esc u - upper_word esc l - lower_word esc c - capitalize_word esc [ A - backward_history (up arrow) esc [ B - forward_history (down arrow) esc [ C - forward_char (right arrow) esc [ D - backward_char (left arrow) From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 20:18:48 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA14596 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 20:18:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from marge.cyber-dyne.com (root@marge.cyber-dyne.com [207.189.172.1]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA14592 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 20:18:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cyber-dyne.com (IDENT:root@rac0L.cyber-dyne.com [207.189.172.171]) by marge.cyber-dyne.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id RAA15511 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 17:18:40 -0700 Received: (from randolph@localhost) by cyber-dyne.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA03537 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 17:18:38 -0700 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 17:18:38 -0700 From: Randolph Fritz <randolph@cyber-dyne.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] allow Message-ID: <20000714171837.A3426@cyber-dyne.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200007141446.KAA17766@illustrious.cnchost.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200007141446.KAA17766@illustrious.cnchost.com>; from pip@namaste.stricca.org on Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 02:51:21PM -0400 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 02:51:21PM -0400, pip@namaste.stricca.org wrote: > > The reason 'allow' is fine on the stand-alone file fileserver is because > of physical security. Is it possibly to provide a similar facility in the > context of the general purpose system ? Maybe the use of smart cards > might be a solution. At system configuration time, you config the > system to recognize the bearer of a particular card as the admin. > This could be done relatively simply with Dallas Semiconductor's iButton, which you can read about at <http://www.ibutton.com>. The gadget and its interface are quite inexpensive. And they sell a decoder ring version. Really. -- Randolph Fritz Eugene, Oregon, USA From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Jul 14 20:25:52 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA14817 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 20:25:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (none@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA14813 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 20:25:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 20:25:46 -0400 (EDT) From: arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20000714235707.287.qmail@nx.aichi-u.ac.jp> MBOX-Line: From kenji Sat Jul 15 08:57:06 2000 Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3J v130.3) Subject: Re: [9fans] allow Reply-To: Kenji Arisawa <arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp> References: <200007141418.KAA00244@cse.psu.edu> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Hello, Rob Pike said: >Better ideas (short of a superuser) are welcome. and pip@stricca.org: >Maybe the use of smart cards might be a solution. I think it is an illusion that we can protect local file system from someone who can touch keyboard of the machine. Plan9 has a good solution for the terminals that are shared by more than one person. That is, "it is best to purge local file systems." On the other hand, There are terminals that are used and managed by a single person. We need not worry about malicious operations by the owner. I believe kfs is intended for this case. UNIX "root" is a formal administrative account. The account worked well until machines were very expensive. But now every one can have machines that run UNIX; and then, inconvenience and insecureness are left for us. Plan9 introduced "host owner" instead of "root". Both govern the machine. Therefore they are superusers. I think problem with kfs is in that it does not make distinguish between "host owner" and others. "host owner" is, in fact, a special user in terminals and/or servers. Therefore, I think some operations should be limited only to host owner. For example, "disk/kfscmd allow" should allow only to host owner to ignore access permission. Kenji Arisawa E-mail: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Jul 15 00:01:19 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA17400 for 9fans-outgoing; Sat, 15 Jul 2000 00:01:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from smtp.fywss.com (gate.nevex.com [207.245.2.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA17395 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Jul 2000 00:01:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from steve@localhost) by smtp.fywss.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA16926 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 15 Jul 2000 00:01:01 -0400 Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 00:01:01 -0400 From: Steve Kotsopoulos <steve@fywss.com> Message-Id: <200007150401.AAA16926@smtp.fywss.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] [reminder] pointer to Plan 9 FAQ Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu The Plan 9 faq is posted to comp.os.plan9 at the beginning of each month. It is also at news.answers archive sites, look for comp-os/plan9-faq The latest hypertext version of the faq is available at url http://www.fywss.com/plan9/plan9faq.html From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Jul 15 06:31:23 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA21330 for 9fans-outgoing; Sat, 15 Jul 2000 06:31:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.92]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA21325 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Jul 2000 06:31:12 -0400 (EDT) From: miller@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk Received: from hamnavoe.demon.co.uk ([158.152.225.204]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 13DPDu-0007D9-0Y for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 15 Jul 2000 11:31:06 +0100 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 11:27:17 BST Subject: [9fans] chords for 2-button mice Message-Id: <E13DPDu-0007D9-0Y@anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Plan 9 mouse drivers allow a 2-button mouse to impersonate a 3-button mouse by interpreting shift + right button as middle button. However, chords are a problem because shift + left button + right button is still interpreted as left button + right button. The following one-line change to the kernel causes shift + left button + right button on a ps2 mouse to be interpreted as left button + middle button, which makes acme and rio much more comfortable on my mouse-challenged thinkpad. term% diff /sys/src/9/pc/mouse.c mouse.c 62c62 < static uchar b[] = {0, 1, 4, 5, 2, 3, 6, 7, 0, 1, 2, 5, 2, 3, 6, 7 }; --- > static uchar b[] = {0, 1, 4, 5, 2, 3, 6, 7, 0, 1, 2, 3, 2, 3, 6, 7 }; I believe the following change does the same for serial mice, but I haven't tested it: term% diff /sys/src/9/port/devmouse.c devmouse.c 549c549 < static uchar b[] = { 0, 4, 1, 5, 0, 2, 1, 5 }; --- > static uchar b[] = { 0, 4, 1, 5, 0, 2, 1, 3 }; 589c589 < static uchar b[] = {0, 4, 2, 6, 1, 5, 3, 7, 0, 2, 2, 6, 1, 5, 3, 7}; --- > static uchar b[] = {0, 4, 2, 6, 1, 5, 3, 7, 0, 2, 2, 6, 1, 3, 3, 7}; (Note to Vita Nuova: I think this is applicable to Inferno as well.) -- Richard Miller From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Jul 15 11:05:51 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA23685 for 9fans-outgoing; Sat, 15 Jul 2000 11:05:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA23680 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Jul 2000 11:05:47 -0400 (EDT) From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200007151505.LAA23680@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] file server problems Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 11:05:44 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu As mentioned, there's a fix for the AHA-154x driver in the filesever. It will be in the next update. In the meantime, mail me if you need it now. I also plan to put the fix into the main kernel along with a way to specify the AHA-1542 from plan9.ini, hopefully before too long. Thanks to forsyth for helping with the fix. --jim From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Jul 15 12:20:36 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA24527 for 9fans-outgoing; Sat, 15 Jul 2000 12:20:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (none@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA24523 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Jul 2000 12:20:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 12:20:30 -0400 (EDT) From: arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20000715155153.242.qmail@nx.aichi-u.ac.jp> MBOX-Line: From kenji Sun Jul 16 00:51:52 2000 Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3J v130.3) Subject: Re: [9fans] allow Reply-To: Kenji Arisawa <arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp> References: <200007141418.KAA00244@cse.psu.edu> <20000714235707.287.qmail@nx.aichi-u.ac.jp> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Hello, Rob Pike said: >Better ideas (short of a superuser) are welcome. How about is the followings? 1. Storage device is owned by user adm. 2. ^X key (for example) swaps consoles of user adm and hostowner. 3. disk/* can be executed only by user adm. Please forgive me if I misunderstand what you said. Kenji Arisawa E-mail: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Jul 15 13:03:17 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA25089 for 9fans-outgoing; Sat, 15 Jul 2000 13:03:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from linux.borf.com (mach254.borf.com [205.185.197.254] (may be forged)) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA25085 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Jul 2000 13:03:13 -0400 (EDT) From: sah@borf.com Received: from localhost (sah@localhost) by linux.borf.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28102 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Jul 2000 12:03:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: linux.borf.com: sah owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 12:03:47 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] pcmcia modems Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10007151202520.28100-100000@linux.borf.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Greetings, I have an ibm 600e I'd like to get a modem for. Can anyone recommend a pcmcia modem that they have working? Sam -------------------------------------------------------------- Sam Hopkins sah@borf.com "... let us tame the savageness of man, and make gentle the life of this world." From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Jul 15 16:56:33 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA27338 for 9fans-outgoing; Sat, 15 Jul 2000 16:56:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from smtp1.fas.harvard.edu (root@smtp1.fas.harvard.edu [140.247.30.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA27329 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Jul 2000 16:56:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from poodle-pc.deas.harvard.edu (poodle-pc.deas.harvard.edu [140.247.51.128]) by smtp1.fas.harvard.edu with SMTP id QAA04972; Sat, 15 Jul 2000 16:56:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007152056.QAA04972@smtp1.fas.harvard.edu> Subject: [9fans] software ports From: "Russ Cox" <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 16:56:21 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Plan 9 ports of Norman Ramsey's noweb, CVS 1.10.8, and Moscow ML 2.0 are all at http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~rsc/plan9.html. (Use wrap/inst to install them.) Russ From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 16 12:00:56 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07944 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 12:00:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA07940 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 12:00:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id SAA19954 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 18:00:44 +0200 (SAST) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 18:00:42 +0200 From: Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9v3 won't start (PBS...Bad format or I/O error) Message-ID: <20000716180042.A19944@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200007131534.LAA20007@er6.rutgers.edu> <396E2AD7.F1D6E5D6@arl.army.mil> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <396E2AD7.F1D6E5D6@arl.army.mil>; from Douglas A. Gwyn on Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 09:17:27AM +0000 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 09:17:27AM +0000, Douglas A. Gwyn wrote: > > Have you ever noticed how practically everything in this field > keeps getting modified until its good features are submerged, > then it stabilizes so we are stuck with the crufty version forever. It's a marketing ploy (think back to the automobile industry of the '50s for a precedent) and it works. My personal corollary is that the technofreak, a person who has to have tomorrow's technology at all costs, is best explained as someone who does not understand today's technology and prays that tomorrow's technology will be easier. It is technofreaks that drive the market. ++L From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 16 12:04:33 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA08081 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 12:04:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA08075 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 12:04:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id SAA19965 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 18:04:27 +0200 (SAST) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 18:04:27 +0200 From: Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Silly porting fun Message-ID: <20000716180426.B19944@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200007140959.FAA25802@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <200007140959.FAA25802@cse.psu.edu>; from forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk on Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 10:58:58AM +0000 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 10:58:58AM +0000, forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk wrote: > > i should be making a portable version of mk available shortly from a Vita Nuova site. > it's the version used to build Inferno on Unix and Windows. Does that mean you haven't ported "mash" yet? :-) :-) :-) I only browsed the mash documentation, but it seemed very intriguing. ++L From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 16 13:50:43 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA09242 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 13:50:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA09238 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 13:50:37 -0400 (EDT) From: brucee@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200007161750.NAA09238@cse.psu.edu> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 13:50:19 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, brucee@plan9.bell-labs.com Subject: [9fans] Mash MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > Does that mean you haven't ported "mash" yet? :-) :-) :-) > > I only browsed the mash documentation, but it seemed very intriguing. Hi, I'm Bruce Ellis - a friend of Mark Shaney's - and I wrote mash. There was a plan to replace mk either by adding loadable module support to rc or by more or less a mash port. It's syntax is almost identical to rc though I got rid of the "if not" wart by some deft but perhaps not totally successful changes. I actually did the dynamic loader (with much encouragement from Russ - loadable vga drivers would be nice) but had too many other things on my plate to do the rest. (This involved really minor changes to 8l and a small library file - 240 lines. I didn't do the other loaders.) I wrote a paper on mash for Usenix but it was rejected, though there were some very fine papers on web servers and perl that could fill its place. (Sarcasm?) Maybe I should tidy up the draft and put it somewhere. You may not understand it though - some of the reviewers seemed to have trouble with it because it wasn't ksh/nmake. Let me be naughty and share some of their comments. Yes, this is so unprofessional. --- I find nothing interesting or novel or conceptually appealing about the paper. [ok - more fool you] The author states that "a history mechanism probably doesn't belong in a shell." Make and Tk do? [they aren't in the shell boofhead, that's the point] Is a 1978 AT&T manual the best reference on the C language? [that's the C Reference Manual brainiac] What is a "trampoline function"? [where did you go to school] On the second last page, you write "mush" instead of "must" [it's a draft - meant "tush" anyway] We hope to see you in Monterey! [eat my shorts] --- But I digress. Mash is fun, makes Inferno a better place. The make loadable module is 723 lines of code. nmake is 723 pages of code. Comments/suggestions welcome - though I don't read 9fans, Russ forwarded me the mail. Bruce Ellis Computing Prototypes Research Group Bell Laboratories * Don't meddle in the mouth. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 16 14:50:50 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA10016 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 14:50:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from f04n07.cac.psu.edu (f04s07.cac.psu.edu [128.118.141.35]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA10012 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 14:50:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bio.cse.psu.edu (tnt2-184-98.cac.psu.edu [128.118.184.98]) by f04n07.cac.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA270930 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 14:50:43 -0400 Message-Id: <200007161850.OAA270930@f04n07.cac.psu.edu> From: schwartz@bio.cse.psu.edu (Scott Schwartz) Subject: [9fans] blend demo Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 15:01:02 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Here's a little program I've been using to exercise alpha channel blending. It draws a bunch of overlapping circles in various colors on various backgrounds. I'm not sure the displayed results are correct, but maybe that's an artifact of my 8-bit display, and it's pretty slow, but debugging aside (I'm running with some patches to libdraw from Russ), I thought it would make a nice little example of the new graphics model. # To unbundle, run this file echo blend.c sed 's/.//' >blend.c <<'//GO.SYSIN DD blend.c' -#include <u.h> -#include <libc.h> -#include <draw.h> -#include <event.h> - -#define RGBA rgba -#define MIN(a,b) ((a)<(b)?(a):(b)) - -int rgba(int r, int g, int b, int a) -{ - int c; - - r = (r*a)/255; - g = (g*a)/255; - b = (b*a)/255; - c= (r<<24) | (g<<16) | (b<<8) | (a); - return c; -} - -enum { Nbg = 3 }; -Image *fg[2][2][3]; -Image *bg[Nbg]; - -void main(int argc, char *argv[]) -{ - Event e; - Rectangle r1 = Rect(0,0,1,1); - Image **i; - - USED(argc, argv); - - if (initdraw(nil, nil, "blend") < 0) { - fprint(2, "initdraw failed: %r\n"); - exits("initdraw"); - } - einit(Emouse|Ekeyboard); - - bg[0] = allocimage(display, r1, RGBA32, 1, DBlack); - bg[1] = allocimage(display, r1, RGBA32, 1, DWhite); - bg[2] = allocimage(display, r1, RGBA32, 1, RGBA(0,0,0,64)); - - // Pure CMY - i = fg[0][0]; - *i++ = allocimage(display, r1, RGBA32, 1, RGBA(255,255,0,255)); - *i++ = allocimage(display, r1, RGBA32, 1, RGBA(0,255,255,255)); - *i++ = allocimage(display, r1, RGBA32, 1, RGBA(255,0,255,255)); - // 50% CMY - i = fg[0][1]; - *i++ = allocimage(display, r1, RGBA32, 1, RGBA(255,255,0,127)); - *i++ = allocimage(display, r1, RGBA32, 1, RGBA(0,255,255,127)); - *i++ = allocimage(display, r1, RGBA32, 1, RGBA(255,0,255,127)); - // Pure RGB - i = fg[1][0]; - *i++ = allocimage(display, r1, RGBA32, 1, RGBA(255,0,0,255)); - *i++ = allocimage(display, r1, RGBA32, 1, RGBA(0,255,0,255)); - *i++ = allocimage(display, r1, RGBA32, 1, RGBA(0,0,255,255)); - // 50% RGB - i = fg[1][1]; - *i++ = allocimage(display, r1, RGBA32, 1, RGBA(255,0,0,127)); - *i++ = allocimage(display, r1, RGBA32, 1, RGBA(0,255,0,127)); - *i++ = allocimage(display, r1, RGBA32, 1, RGBA(0,0,255,127)); - - eresized(0); - for (;;) { - switch(event(&e)){ - case Ekeyboard: - switch(e.kbdc){ - case 'q': - case '\04': - exits(nil); - } - break; - case Emouse: - if(e.mouse.buttons){ - } - break; - } - } - exits(nil); -} - -void spots(Point o, int R, Image *bg, Image **fg) -{ - Rectangle r = Rpt(o, addpt(o, Pt(3*R, 3*R))); - - draw(screen, r, bg, nil, ZP); - - fillellipse(screen, addpt(o,Pt(1*R,2*R)), R,R, fg[0], ZP); - fillellipse(screen, addpt(o,Pt(2*R,2*R)), R,R, fg[1], ZP); - fillellipse(screen, addpt(o,Pt(1.5*R,1*R)), R,R, fg[2], ZP); -} - -void redraw(Image *screen) -{ - Rectangle r = screen->r; - int dX = r.max.x-r.min.x; - int dY = r.max.y-r.min.y; - int R = MIN(dX,dY)/4/3; - int x, y; - - fprint(2, "s=%R, R=%d\n", screen->r, R); - // draw(screen, r, bg[2], nil, ZP); - - for (x=0; x<4; ++x) - for (y=0; y<4; ++y) - spots(addpt(r.min, Pt(x*3*R, y*3*R)), R, - bg[(x<2)+(y<2)], fg[y%2][x%2]); - //flushimage(display, 1); -} - -void -eresized(int new) -{ - if(new && getwindow(display, Refnone) < 0){ - fprint(2, "can't reattach to window: %r\n"); - exits("attach"); - } - redraw(screen); -} //GO.SYSIN DD blend.c From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 16 16:52:49 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA11366 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 16:52:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from wellington.cnchost.com (wellington.concentric.net [207.155.252.14]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA11362 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 16:52:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from namaste.stricca.org (discordia-asy-40.rutgers.edu [128.6.251.40]) by wellington.cnchost.com id QAA05909; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 16:52:37 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.8] Message-ID: <200007162052.QAA05909@wellington.cnchost.com> To: brucee@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, brucee@plan9.bell-labs.com Subject: Re: [9fans] Mash FROM: pip@namaste.stricca.org REPLY-TO: pip@stricca.org Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 20:57:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-tkugpqszxlwsgjfirlfjuduejn" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-tkugpqszxlwsgjfirlfjuduejn Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <junk> > [that's the C Reference Manual brainiac] <junk> Something interesting happened in December 1989. ANSI adopted what was to become the ANSI C standard, which was then adopted by ISO and is ISO/IEC standard 9899-1990. If you require a copy, you can get it from ANSI or ISO: American National Standards Institute 11 West 42nd Street New York, NY 10036 Telephone (212) 642-4900 or ISO Sales Case postale 56 CH-1211 Geneve 20 Switzerland - pip --upas-tkugpqszxlwsgjfirlfjuduejn Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from cse.psu.edu (claven.cse.psu.edu [130.203.3.50]) by hood.cnchost.com id NAA28093; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 13:52:12 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP MX 1.15] Errors-To: <owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA09262; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 13:50:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by claven.cse.psu.edu (bulk_mailer v1.5); Sun, 16 Jul 2000 13:50:47 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA09242 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 13:50:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA09238 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 13:50:37 -0400 (EDT) From: brucee@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200007161750.NAA09238@cse.psu.edu> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 13:50:19 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, brucee@plan9.bell-labs.com Subject: [9fans] Mash MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk > Does that mean you haven't ported "mash" yet? :-) :-) :-) > > I only browsed the mash documentation, but it seemed very intriguing. Hi, I'm Bruce Ellis - a friend of Mark Shaney's - and I wrote mash. There was a plan to replace mk either by adding loadable module support to rc or by more or less a mash port. It's syntax is almost identical to rc though I got rid of the "if not" wart by some deft but perhaps not totally successful changes. I actually did the dynamic loader (with much encouragement from Russ - loadable vga drivers would be nice) but had too many other things on my plate to do the rest. (This involved really minor changes to 8l and a small library file - 240 lines. I didn't do the other loaders.) I wrote a paper on mash for Usenix but it was rejected, though there were some very fine papers on web servers and perl that could fill its place. (Sarcasm?) Maybe I should tidy up the draft and put it somewhere. You may not understand it though - some of the reviewers seemed to have trouble with it because it wasn't ksh/nmake. Let me be naughty and share some of their comments. Yes, this is so unprofessional. --- I find nothing interesting or novel or conceptually appealing about the paper. [ok - more fool you] The author states that "a history mechanism probably doesn't belong in a shell." Make and Tk do? [they aren't in the shell boofhead, that's the point] Is a 1978 AT&T manual the best reference on the C language? [that's the C Reference Manual brainiac] What is a "trampoline function"? [where did you go to school] On the second last page, you write "mush" instead of "must" [it's a draft - meant "tush" anyway] We hope to see you in Monterey! [eat my shorts] --- But I digress. Mash is fun, makes Inferno a better place. The make loadable module is 723 lines of code. nmake is 723 pages of code. Comments/suggestions welcome - though I don't read 9fans, Russ forwarded me the mail. Bruce Ellis Computing Prototypes Research Group Bell Laboratories * Don't meddle in the mouth. --upas-tkugpqszxlwsgjfirlfjuduejn-- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 16 17:48:45 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA12067 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 17:48:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from lafontaine.cybercable.fr (lafontaine.cybercable.fr [212.198.0.202]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA12063 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 17:48:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 15876499 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2000 21:48:38 -0000 Received: from r198m3.cybercable.tm.fr (HELO noos.fr) ([195.132.198.3]) (envelope-sender <boyd@noos.fr>) by lafontaine.cybercable.fr (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 16 Jul 2000 21:48:38 -0000 Message-ID: <39722DE5.6060908@noos.fr> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 23:49:25 +0200 From: Boyd Roberts <boyd@noos.fr> Organization: Psycho Basket Case Outpatients Clinic User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; N; Win98; en-US; m14) Netscape6/6.0b1 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Mash References: <200007162052.QAA05909@wellington.cnchost.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu pip@namaste.stricca.org wrote: > <junk> > > [that's the C Reference Manual brainiac] > <junk> > > Something interesting happened in December 1989. s/interesting/bad/ -- Boyd Roberts boyd@psycho-basket-case.org ``I come over here to kill them cocksuckers, not work for 'em'' -- Moon Dog, _Pettibone's Law_, John Keene From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 16 17:56:24 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA12268 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 17:56:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from thunderer.cnchost.com (thunderer.concentric.net [207.155.252.72]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA12264 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 17:56:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from namaste.stricca.org (discordia-asy-40.rutgers.edu [128.6.251.40]) by thunderer.cnchost.com id RAA15703; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 17:56:10 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.8] Message-ID: <200007162156.RAA15703@thunderer.cnchost.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Mash FROM: pip@namaste.stricca.org REPLY-TO: pip@stricca.org Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 22:01:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-hlzomygmuacprovggparjhfmch" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-hlzomygmuacprovggparjhfmch Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >s/interesting/bad/ Care to share your bountiful wisdom ? Is it that you think that the standardisation process of C made the language evolve for the worse ? --upas-hlzomygmuacprovggparjhfmch Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from cse.psu.edu (claven.cse.psu.edu [130.203.3.50]) by invincible.cnchost.com id RAA24498; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 17:50:24 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP MX 1.15] Errors-To: <owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA12087; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 17:48:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by claven.cse.psu.edu (bulk_mailer v1.5); Sun, 16 Jul 2000 17:48:49 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA12067 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 17:48:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from lafontaine.cybercable.fr (lafontaine.cybercable.fr [212.198.0.202]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA12063 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 17:48:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 15876499 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2000 21:48:38 -0000 Received: from r198m3.cybercable.tm.fr (HELO noos.fr) ([195.132.198.3]) (envelope-sender <boyd@noos.fr>) by lafontaine.cybercable.fr (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 16 Jul 2000 21:48:38 -0000 Message-ID: <39722DE5.6060908@noos.fr> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 23:49:25 +0200 From: Boyd Roberts <boyd@noos.fr> Organization: Psycho Basket Case Outpatients Clinic User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; N; Win98; en-US; m14) Netscape6/6.0b1 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Mash References: <200007162052.QAA05909@wellington.cnchost.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk pip@namaste.stricca.org wrote: > <junk> > > [that's the C Reference Manual brainiac] > <junk> > > Something interesting happened in December 1989. s/interesting/bad/ -- Boyd Roberts boyd@psycho-basket-case.org ``I come over here to kill them cocksuckers, not work for 'em'' -- Moon Dog, _Pettibone's Law_, John Keene --upas-hlzomygmuacprovggparjhfmch-- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 16 18:16:41 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA12604 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 18:16:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from crdevilb.bresnanlink.net (cb499392-a.rchstr1.mn.home.com [24.17.34.186]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA12600 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 18:16:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from colin@localhost) by crdevilb.bresnanlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA01266 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 17:18:51 -0400 Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 17:18:51 -0400 From: Colin DeVilbiss <crdevilb@mtu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] successful install, iffy setup Message-ID: <20000716171851.A387@crdevilb.bresnanlink.net> Reply-To: Colin DeVilbiss <crdevilb@mtu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu hi; I have successfully installed plan9v3 on a laptop in the past 2 days. I have 3 questions: 1: how do I mount an ext2 filesystem? I grok using /srv/dos for FAT filesystems, but I don't see a parallel for the ext2 side of things (I live in linux most of the time.) 2: is there a simple web browser for plan9? even an html viewer less complex than html2ms | troff | page or the like? 3: how do I get my network set up like I did in linux? I understand that it should be much simpler than it was for linux (1 file, etc), but I can't seem to make it work. I am behind a ip-masqueraded firewall, and our subnet is 192.168.0.xx (192.168.0.0 subnetmask 255.255.255.0). our server/gateway (linux) is 192.168.0.1 internally. to deal with this in linux, I just do the following at boot time: ifconfig eth0 192.168.0.69 # my local address route add default gw 192.168.0.1 # all requests go through the server after that, everything just works under linux. I have gotten the first part done I think: ip/ipconfig ether /net/ether0 192.168.0.69 but I don't see how to set up the gateway. the only relevant information in the linux config files as far as I know: /etc/resolv.conf: domain my.domain ns my.ns.1 ns my.ns.2 search search.1 search.2 if someone could explain to me how to pattern-match the above into a working /lib/ndb/local and/or /rc/bin/termrc, I would much appreciate it. thanks in advance for any help; cat flames > /dev/null -- Colin DeVilbiss crdevilb@mtu.edu From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 16 18:20:35 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA12755 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 18:20:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA12751 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 18:20:30 -0400 (EDT) From: brucee@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200007162220.SAA12751@cse.psu.edu> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 18:20:28 -0400 To: pip@namaste.stricca.org, 9fans@cse.psu.edu, brucee@plan9.bell-labs.com Subject: Re: [9fans] Mash MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >> Something interesting happened in December 1989. ANSI >> adopted what was to become the ANSI C standard, which was >> then adopted by ISO and is ISO/IEC standard 9899-1990. What an ass. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 16 18:21:14 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA12801 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 18:21:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from camus.cybercable.fr (camus.cybercable.fr [212.198.0.200]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA12795 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 18:21:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 15422244 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2000 22:21:06 -0000 Received: from r198m3.cybercable.tm.fr (HELO noos.fr) ([195.132.198.3]) (envelope-sender <boyd@noos.fr>) by camus.cybercable.fr (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 16 Jul 2000 22:21:06 -0000 Message-ID: <39723581.2050502@noos.fr> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 00:21:53 +0200 From: Boyd Roberts <boyd@noos.fr> Organization: Psycho Basket Case Outpatients Clinic User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; N; Win98; en-US; m14) Netscape6/6.0b1 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Mash References: <200007162156.RAA15703@thunderer.cnchost.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu pip@namaste.stricca.org wrote: > >s/interesting/bad/ > Care to share your bountiful wisdom ? Is it that you think that the > standardisation process of C made the language evolve for the worse ? > yeah, i think it got worse. look at the horrors like strftime(). on the other hand, look at the beauty of ken-C on plan 9. doing more with less -- that is the deal. -- Boyd Roberts boyd@psycho-basket-case.org ``I come over here to kill them cocksuckers, not work for 'em'' -- Moon Dog, _Pettibone's Law_, John Keene From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 16 18:34:23 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA13207 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 18:34:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aspen.cs.unr.edu (aspen.cs.unr.edu [134.197.40.251]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA13203 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 18:34:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from banyan.cs.unr.edu (banyan.cs.unr.edu [134.197.40.54]) by aspen.cs.unr.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA22757 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 15:34:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (beleos@localhost) by banyan.cs.unr.edu (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA24061 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 15:34:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: banyan.cs.unr.edu: beleos owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 15:34:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Louis Beleos <beleos@cs.unr.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] cdfs woes Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.05.10007161525060.23983-100000@banyan.cs.unr.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu I am apparently overlooking something very obvious but staring at cdfs(3) does not seem to help. term% cat /dev/sd03/ctl inquiry YAMAHA CRW8424S 1.0d06/10/99 geometry 1 2048 part data 0 1 term% cdfs -d /dev/sd03 openscsi '/dev/sd03': i/o error No special binds/mounts other than what is in termrc (/n/cd exists). Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, louis From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 16 18:55:04 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA13587 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 18:55:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA13583 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 18:54:59 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200007162254.SAA13583@cse.psu.edu> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 18:54:54 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] allow MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-irnxhrokvyvdtoplnndjomyxiq" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-irnxhrokvyvdtoplnndjomyxiq Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'ld tend to agree with this. Kfs for us is primarily a toy that we use only on a few standalone systems that we'ld never type allow on. All of our other systems are 'file system'-less. Hostowner controls local resources and, as such, is a superuser for that box. To a lesser extent, it can be a superuser to a larger domain since the authentication server will allow some id's to 'speak for' other id's when connecting to resources. I'm currently toying with a complete public key based system that doesn't even have this speaks for relation so that there is no super-user. This arrangement makes a lot of things nicer but makes somethings more awkward. For example, I can have a hostagent running on my terminal that brokers all authentication for my processes, even ones on cpu servers. However, when making calls out from a cpu server, I still have to trust the owner of that cpu server to be running a system that does what my processes ask it to. Hence, I'm trusting the host owner making him a super-user of sorts. However, the sphere of trust can be much more arbitrariy and egocentric and I like that. Cron in such a system becomes much harder. The cron process has to possess some of my private keys in order to do it's job. I could limit its ability by certifying scripts that it runs but that's more work. However, I think I'm going to bite the bullet and do it. I'm much enamoured of Mazieres' SFS. I'ld like to make our authentication mechanism as easy to use. --upas-irnxhrokvyvdtoplnndjomyxiq Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Jul 14 20:45:42 EDT 2000 Received: from cse.psu.edu ([130.203.3.50]) by plan9; Fri Jul 14 20:45:40 EDT 2000 Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA14869; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 20:27:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by claven.cse.psu.edu (bulk_mailer v1.5); Fri, 14 Jul 2000 20:25:56 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA14817 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 20:25:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (none@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA14813 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 20:25:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 20:25:46 -0400 (EDT) From: arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20000714235707.287.qmail@nx.aichi-u.ac.jp> MBOX-Line: From kenji Sat Jul 15 08:57:06 2000 Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3J v130.3) Subject: Re: [9fans] allow Reply-To: Kenji Arisawa <arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp> References: <200007141418.KAA00244@cse.psu.edu> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Hello, Rob Pike said: >Better ideas (short of a superuser) are welcome. and pip@stricca.org: >Maybe the use of smart cards might be a solution. I think it is an illusion that we can protect local file system from someone who can touch keyboard of the machine. Plan9 has a good solution for the terminals that are shared by more than one person. That is, "it is best to purge local file systems." On the other hand, There are terminals that are used and managed by a single person. We need not worry about malicious operations by the owner. I believe kfs is intended for this case. UNIX "root" is a formal administrative account. The account worked well until machines were very expensive. But now every one can have machines that run UNIX; and then, inconvenience and insecureness are left for us. Plan9 introduced "host owner" instead of "root". Both govern the machine. Therefore they are superusers. I think problem with kfs is in that it does not make distinguish between "host owner" and others. "host owner" is, in fact, a special user in terminals and/or servers. Therefore, I think some operations should be limited only to host owner. For example, "disk/kfscmd allow" should allow only to host owner to ignore access permission. Kenji Arisawa E-mail: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp --upas-irnxhrokvyvdtoplnndjomyxiq-- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 16 19:03:28 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA13827 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 19:03:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA13823 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 19:03:24 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200007162303.TAA13823@cse.psu.edu> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 19:02:49 -0400 To: sah@borf.com, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pcmcia modems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu I'm using the xircom creditcard modem 56, in fact i'm connected via ppp From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Jul 16 20:17:34 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA14689 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 20:17:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA14685 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 20:17:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007170017.UAA14685@cse.psu.edu> Received: from ovid.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.50.34]) by plan9; Sun Jul 16 20:17:28 EDT 2000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, crdevilb@mtu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] successful install, iffy setup From: "Russ Cox" <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 20:17:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu 1: how do I mount an ext2 filesystem? I grok using /srv/dos for FAT filesystems, but I don't see a parallel for the ext2 side of things (I live in linux most of the time.) You need an ext2 server like dossrv. Someone at the University of Paris wrote one for the second edition, which I updated slightly for the third edition. Some people have reported problems using it; I run it only in read-only mode. I'll put it on my web page until they get a chance to roll in my changes. It's not in the distributed tree. 2: is there a simple web browser for plan9? even an html viewer less complex than html2ms | troff | page or the like? Sadly, no. I believe there's web work in very early stages. 3: how do I get my network set up like I did in linux? I understand that it ip/ipconfig -g 192.168.0.1 ether /net/ether0 192.168.0.69 255.255.255.0 will do the configuration you want. echo 'add 0 0 192.168.0.1' >/net/iproute will do the same thing as the -g flag. as for /lib/ndb/local, something like ipnet=net-192-168 ip=192.168.0.0 ipmask=255.255.0.0 ipsubmask=255.255.255.0 ipnet=mynet ip=192.168.0.0 ipmask=255.255.255.0 dns=my.ns.1 dns=my.ns.2 dnsdomain=search.1 dnsdomain=search.2 should suffice. Russ From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 17 05:29:59 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA20930 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 05:29:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA20923 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 05:29:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13E73J-00004U-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 10:19:05 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 09:11:31 GMT From: Steve Simon <steve@savan.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <396F8663.BB162889@savan.demon.co.uk> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200007130836.EAA20995@cse.psu.edu>, <slrn8mt2or.4uc.kvanhees@dev0.intra-quarterleaf.com> Reply-To: steve@savan.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: [9fans] Silly porting fun (RC for Unix) Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu A rewrite of RC for Unix was done several yars ago source: viz.tamu.edu:/pub/rc/rc-1.4.tar.Z FAQ: http://www.df.lth.se/~elg/rcfaq.html I have compiled it under CYGWIN (sourceware.cygnus.com) and use it under NT at work daily. -Steve but Kris Van Hees wrote: [snip] > > What I'd like to see... mk for Unix :) Anyone here who has attempted to port > it over (along with rc of course)? > > Kris From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 17 05:30:10 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA20953 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 05:30:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from marge.cyber-dyne.com (root@marge.cyber-dyne.com [207.189.172.1]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA20928 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 05:29:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cyber-dyne.com (IDENT:root@rac0F.cyber-dyne.com [207.189.172.165]) by marge.cyber-dyne.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA11292 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 02:29:35 -0700 Received: (from randolph@localhost) by cyber-dyne.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA01647 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 02:29:34 -0700 Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 02:29:34 -0700 From: Randolph Fritz <randolph@cyber-dyne.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Porting fun, part II Message-ID: <20000717022934.A1624@cyber-dyne.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu After a bit of experimenting, fixing a bug in pcc (it was trying to output compiled code into a system library), and making a more questionable enhancement to pcc (make it output to '.o' files by default--ick), I have gotten the Python configure script to work by setting CC to "pcc" and CFLAGS set to "-B -lap" and, with a bit more effort, have compiled a basic Python in the APE. I pass along the version of pcc, and hope that at least the fix makes it into the next release. (The more I think about about it, the more I think the '.o' object file naming would be better as an option one had to specify.) For my next trick...maybe a native Python port? -- Randolph Fritz Eugene, Oregon, USA #include <u.h> #include <libc.h> typedef struct Objtype { char *name; char *cc; char *ld; char *o; char *oname; } Objtype; Objtype objtype[] = { {"mips2", "4c", "4l", "4", "4.out"}, {"mips", "vc", "vl", "v", "v.out"}, {"68020", "2c", "2l", "2", "2.out"}, {"sparc", "kc", "kl", "k", "k.out"}, {"386", "8c", "8l", "8", "8.out"}, {"alpha", "7c", "7l", "7", "7.out"}, {"power", "qc", "ql", "q", "q.out"}, }; enum { Nobjs = (sizeof objtype)/(sizeof objtype[0]), Maxlist = 500, }; typedef struct List { char *strings[Maxlist]; int n; } List; List srcs, objs, cpp, cc, ld, ldargs, libs; int cflag, tflag, vflag, Eflag, Pflag; char *allos = "2478kqv"; void append(List *, char *); char *changeext(char *, char *); void doexec(char *, List *); void dopipe(char *, List *, char *, List *); void fatal(char *); Objtype *findoty(void); void printlist(List *); char *str(char *, ...); void main(int argc, char *argv[]) { Objtype *ot; char *s, *suf, *ccpath; char *oname; int i, cppn, ccn; ot = findoty(); oname = ot->oname; append(&cpp, "cpp"); append(&cpp, "-D__STDC__=1"); /* ANSI says so */ append(&cpp, "-N"); /* turn off standard includes */ append(&cc, ot->cc); append(&ld, ot->ld); while(argc > 0) { ARGBEGIN { case 'c': cflag = 1; break; case 'l': append(&libs, str("/%s/lib/ape/lib%s.a", ot->name, ARGF())); break; case 'o': oname = ARGF(); if(!oname) fatal("no -o argument"); break; case 't': tflag = 1; case 'w': case 'B': case 'N': case 'S': case 'V': append(&cc, str("-%c", ARGC())); break; case 's': append(&cc, str("-s%s", ARGF())); break; case 'D': case 'I': case 'U': append(&cpp, str("-%c%s", ARGC(), ARGF())); break; case 'v': vflag = 1; append(&ldargs, "-v"); break; case 'P': Pflag = 1; cflag = 1; break; case 'E': Eflag = 1; cflag = 1; break; case 'p': append(&ldargs, "-p"); break; case 'a': /* hacky look inside ARGBEGIN insides, to see if we have -aa */ if(*_args == 'a') { append(&cc, "-aa"); _args++; } else append(&cc, "-a"); cflag = 1; break; default: fprint(2, "pcc: flag -%c ignored\n", ARGC()); break; } ARGEND if(argc > 0) { s = argv[0]; suf = utfrrune(s, '.'); if(suf) { suf++; if(strcmp(suf, "c") == 0) { append(&srcs, s); append(&objs, changeext(s, tflag ? ot->o : "o")); } else if(strcmp(suf, ot->o) == 0 || strcmp(suf, "o") == 0 || strcmp(suf, "a") == 0 || (suf[0] == 'a' && strcmp(suf+1, ot->o) == 0)) { append(&objs, s); } else if(utfrune(allos, suf[0]) != 0) { fprint(2, "pcc: argument %s ignored: wrong architecture\n", s); } } } } if(objs.n == 0) fatal("no files to compile or load"); ccpath = str("/bin/%s", ot->cc); append(&cpp, str("-I/%s/include/ape", ot->name)); append(&cpp, "-I/sys/include/ape"); cppn = cpp.n; ccn = cc.n; for(i = 0; i < srcs.n; i++) { append(&cpp, srcs.strings[i]); if(Pflag) append(&cpp, changeext(objs.strings[i], ".i")); if(Eflag || Pflag) doexec("/bin/cpp", &cpp); else { append(&cc, "-o"); append(&cc, objs.strings[i]); dopipe("/bin/cpp", &cpp, ccpath, &cc); } cpp.n = cppn; cc.n = ccn; } if(!cflag) { append(&ld, "-o"); append(&ld, oname); for(i = 0; i < ldargs.n; i++) append(&ld, ldargs.strings[i]); for(i = 0; i < objs.n; i++) append(&ld, objs.strings[i]); for(i = 0; i < libs.n; i++) append(&ld, libs.strings[i]); doexec(str("/bin/%s", ot->ld), &ld); if(objs.n == 1){ /* prevent removal of a library */ if(strstr(objs.strings[0], ".a") == 0) remove(objs.strings[0]); } } exits(0); } void append(List *l, char *s) { if(l->n >= Maxlist-1) fatal("too many arguments"); l->strings[l->n++] = s; l->strings[l->n] = 0; } void doexec(char *c, List *a) { Waitmsg w; int pid; if(vflag) { printlist(a); fprint(2, "\n"); } switch(fork()) { case -1: fatal("fork failed"); case 0: exec(c, a->strings); fatal("exec failed"); } pid = wait(&w); if(pid < 0) fatal("wait failed"); if(w.msg[0]) fatal(str("%s: %s", a->strings[0], w.msg)); } void dopipe(char *c1, List *a1, char *c2, List *a2) { Waitmsg w; int pid, pid1, got; int fd[2]; if(vflag) { printlist(a1); fprint(2, " | "); printlist(a2); fprint(2, "\n"); } if(pipe(fd) < 0) fatal("pipe failed"); switch((pid1 = fork())) { case -1: fatal("fork failed"); case 0: dup(fd[0], 0); close(fd[0]); close(fd[1]); exec(c2, a2->strings); fatal("exec failed"); } switch(fork()) { case -1: fatal("fork failed"); case 0: close(0); dup(fd[1], 1); close(fd[0]); close(fd[1]); exec(c1, a1->strings); fatal("exec failed"); } close(fd[0]); close(fd[1]); for(got = 0; got < 2; got++) { pid = wait(&w); if(pid < 0) fatal("wait failed"); if(w.msg[0]) fatal(str("%s: %s", (pid == pid1) ? a1->strings[0] : a2->strings[0], w.msg)); } } Objtype * findoty(void) { char *o; Objtype *oty; o = getenv("objtype"); if(!o) fatal("no $objtype in environment"); for(oty = objtype; oty < &objtype[Nobjs]; oty++) if(strcmp(o, oty->name) == 0) return oty; fatal("unknown $objtype"); return 0; /* shut compiler up */ } void fatal(char *msg) { fprint(2, "pcc: %s\n", msg); exits(msg); } /* src ends in .something; return copy of basename with .ext added */ char * changeext(char *src, char *ext) { char *b, *e, *ans; b = utfrrune(src, '/'); if(b) b++; else b = src; e = utfrrune(src, '.'); if(!e) return 0; *e = 0; ans = str("%s.%s", b, ext); *e = '.'; return ans; } void printlist(List *l) { int i; for(i = 0; i < l->n; i++) { fprint(2, "%s", l->strings[i]); if(i < l->n - 1) fprint(2, " "); } } char * str(char *fmt, ...) { char *s; char buf[1000]; va_list arg; va_start(arg, fmt); doprint(buf, &buf[sizeof buf], fmt, arg); va_end(arg); s = malloc(strlen(buf)+1); strcpy(s, buf); return s; } -- Randolph Fritz Eugene, Oregon, USA From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 17 05:32:47 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA21157 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 05:32:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA21101 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 05:32:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13E73K-00004b-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 10:19:06 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 09:11:52 GMT From: Christopher Browne <cbbrowne@news.isp.giganews.com> Message-ID: <q6Ob5.315533$MB.5264031@news6.giganews.com> Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing References: <200007130836.EAA20995@cse.psu.edu>, <slrn8mt2or.4uc.kvanhees@dev0.intra-quarterleaf.com> Reply-To: cbbrowne@hex.net Subject: Re: [9fans] Silly porting fun Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when Kris Van Hees would say: >In article <200007130836.EAA20995@cse.psu.edu>, forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk wrote: >>>>I sometimes think so too and yet...it works so very very well and >>>>there is just so much software that uses it. I don't think I've ever >>>>seen a configure script fail in a released program. >> >>i have, frequently, on Unix systems, not Plan 9. > >One example is trying to compile CVS (ironically, since it already got ported >to Plan9 without much trouble - and not using configure) on Solaris 7. At >least on all Solaris 7 machines I tried it detects that GSSAPI is available, >and then during the compilation it complains because the libraries are not >there. I believe it must be a case of Sun shipping the C include files but >not the library or something. > >Anyway, it indicates how fragile configure is, even on one of the very common >Unix flavours. Another thing I truly *hate* about configure is that its small >components like the infamous config.guess script to create a identifier for the >architecture/platform it runs on cannot be used under non-GPL distribution >terms unless it is bundled with a program that contains a GNU configure script >that was generated with Autoconf. Quite a ridiculous stand for people that >claim to promote 'free' software, I think. Anyway, that widely off topic. > >What I'd like to see... mk for Unix :) Anyone here who has attempted to port >it over (along with rc of course)? You might want also to take a look at the Software Carpentry project for "SC Config" <http://software-carpentry.codesourcery.com/sc_config> This is a project specifically intended to provide a successor to autoconf. -- aa454@freenet.carleton.ca - <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/langide.html> "When we understand knowledge-based systems, it will be as before -- except our fingertips will have been singed." -- Alan Perlis From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 17 05:32:46 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA21158 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 05:32:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA21113 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 05:32:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13E73M-00004o-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 10:19:08 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 09:12:42 GMT From: Chris Locke <chris@cjl1.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <963777053.17893.0.nnrp-01.c2de4822@news.demon.co.uk> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK References: <200007161750.NAA09238@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Mash Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu If you are interested in Mash you should check out the new Inferno shell. There's a short paper on it here... http://www.vitanuova.com/papers/sh.html and a man page here... http://www.vitanuova.com/man/1/sh.html oh, and here is the mash man page... http://www.vitanuova.com/man/1/mash.html Mash was a great improvement on the original Inferno shell but suffered some problems itself. It is made fatter by the specific pattern/dependency list syntax built into the parser. I struggled to find a use for this outside of the make 'plug-in'. Most users aren't running make in the shell all the time, so we have a bunch of code (and remember that Inferno was originally intended for small devices) built in to the shell that, under normal usage, serves no purpose. There was also a problem with sharing 'contexts'. For example, when using the graphical Mash shell (wm/mash) you can use the tk 'plug-in' to create buttons that act as command shortcuts - when clicked they spit out a command as if it had been typed. However, they don't work if you run a sub-shell (e.g. mash) in the wm/mash window. The 'commands' are buffered up until the sub-shell exits. Another problem was that the dependency syntax wasn't the same as mk or make. On several projects I looked at setting up mash-make files. I tend to develop for Inferno on Plan9 using Acme and the host limbo compiler because it is faster at compiling than the Inferno (.dis) based limbo compiler. Consequently I found that to use mash-make I was having to maintain two different 'mkfile's. This was too much bother so I stuck with mk on Plan9 and the minor inconvenience of having to make sure my Plan9/Inferno namespaces overlapped. It would have made for a very interesting paper for USENIX, it would have been one of the few interesting things there. The proceedings were incredibly dull this year (apart from Rob's "getting dot dot right", which was a delight). Chris Locke. P.S. to BruceE, I didn't mean to be harsh on Mash, it really is a nice piece of work, any chance of posting up your paper? From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 17 06:21:53 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA21990 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 06:21:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from indosuez.com ([195.115.40.229]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA21985 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 06:21:48 -0400 (EDT) From: boyd.roberts@ca-indosuez.com Received: from SNPAR12. (mailer@fw-local [192.168.192.6]) by indosuez.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA18703; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:18:25 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by SNPAR12.(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) id 4125691F.003EB109 ; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:24:45 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: BANQUE INDOSUEZ To: steve@savan.demon.co.uk, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <4125691F.003EAEEA.00@SNPAR12.> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:21:58 +0200 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9f._:_Re:_[9fans]_Silly_porting_fun_(RC_for_Uni?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?x)?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu used the unix rc for years; well written, solid as a rock. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 17 06:29:29 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA22185 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 06:29:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from marge.cyber-dyne.com (root@marge.cyber-dyne.com [207.189.172.1]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA22175 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 06:29:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cyber-dyne.com (IDENT:root@rac0D.cyber-dyne.com [207.189.172.163]) by marge.cyber-dyne.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA12228 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 03:29:18 -0700 Received: (from randolph@localhost) by cyber-dyne.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA02042 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 03:29:16 -0700 Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 03:29:16 -0700 From: Randolph Fritz <randolph@cyber-dyne.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9f=2E_:_Re:_=5B9fans=5D_Silly_porting_fun_=28RC_for_Un?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?ix=29?= Message-ID: <20000717032916.A1998@cyber-dyne.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <4125691F.003EAEEA.00@SNPAR12.> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <4125691F.003EAEEA.00@SNPAR12.>; from boyd.roberts@ca-indosuez.com on Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 12:21:58PM +0200 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 12:21:58PM +0200, boyd.roberts@ca-indosuez.com wrote: > > used the unix rc for years; well written, solid as a rock. > I've switched, myself. I rewrote one script in rc and decided it was time. :) Now if only mk would become standard on Unix... -- Randolph Fritz Eugene, Oregon, USA From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 17 07:00:03 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA22587 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 07:00:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA22576 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 06:59:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13E8ZI-0001HL-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:56:12 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 10:52:09 GMT From: Wladimir Mutel <mwg@alkar.net> Message-ID: <8kunmd$4fk$1@pandora.alkar.net> Organization: Alkar-Teleport News server Subject: [9fans] fork-to-another-cpu-server - ? Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Greetings, Maurice Bach's 'UNIX Architecture' reads that there were several problems in unix networking/clustering/distributed processing that were solved within unix bounds with more or less success, although not so naturally as under Plan9. But in Plan9 I see only 'cpu' command to attach new process to different cpu-server, and this seems to be done by user-level stuff and additional services, not by OS kernel itself. I think fork-to-remote-host is a great feature to be implemented under Plan9 just at its kernel architecture level. Or may be I am missing something ? Please explain me about true design intents of the Plan9, to give right direction to my thoughts. Thanks. -- mwg@alkar.net From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 17 09:47:59 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA25538 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 09:47:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from indosuez.com ([195.115.40.229]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA25532 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 09:47:53 -0400 (EDT) From: boyd.roberts@ca-indosuez.com Received: from SNPAR12. (mailer@fw-local [192.168.192.6]) by indosuez.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA23091 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 15:45:35 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by SNPAR12.(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) id 4125691F.0051A9A6 ; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 15:51:58 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: BANQUE INDOSUEZ To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <4125691F.0051A93B.00@SNPAR12.> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 15:49:17 +0200 Subject: [9fans] mothra Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu how come mothra bit the dust? From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 17 10:25:04 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA26704 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 10:25:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from indosuez.com ([195.115.40.229]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA26698 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 10:24:56 -0400 (EDT) From: boyd.roberts@ca-indosuez.com Received: from SNPAR12. (mailer@fw-local [192.168.192.6]) by indosuez.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA23680 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 16:22:38 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by SNPAR12.(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) id 4125691F.00550DBA ; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 16:29:00 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: BANQUE INDOSUEZ To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <4125691F.00550C43.00@SNPAR12.> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 16:26:15 +0200 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9f._:_Re:_[9fans]_Mash?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Chris Locke <chris@cjl1.demon.co.uk> wrote: It is made fatter by the specific pattern/dependency list syntax built into the parser... fatter? is that the author's [brucee] meaning of the word? how fat am i!?! -- john j. mackin From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 17 10:33:37 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA27026 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 10:33:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from indosuez.com ([195.115.40.229]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA27021 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 10:33:30 -0400 (EDT) From: boyd.roberts@ca-indosuez.com Received: from SNPAR12. (mailer@fw-local [192.168.192.6]) by indosuez.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA23936 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 16:31:13 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by SNPAR12.(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) id 4125691F.0055D3C3 ; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 16:37:27 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: BANQUE INDOSUEZ To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <4125691F.0055D225.00@SNPAR12.> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 16:34:35 +0200 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9f._:_[9fans]_fork-to-another-cpu-server_-_=3F?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wladimir Mutel <mwg@alkar.net> wrote: But in Plan9 I see only 'cpu' command to attach new process to different cpu-server, and this seems to be done by user-level stuff and additional services, not by OS kernel itself. I think fork-to-remote-host is a great feature to be implemented under Plan9 just at its kernel architecture level. Or may be I am missing something ? cpu is/was a namespace thing. not really anything to do with fork. however, it may have changed, but i doubt it. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 17 11:15:00 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28073 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:14:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28068 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:14:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13ECaj-0004bz-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 16:13:57 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 15:11:51 GMT From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <gwyn@arl.army.mil> Message-ID: <39731A76.C2743CF2@arl.army.mil> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200007162254.SAA13583@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] allow Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > Cron in such a system becomes much harder. The cron process has to > possess some of my private keys in order to do it's job. I don't see that -- surely a "user" could fire up its own cron-ish process to perform scheduled tasks. Why does there have to be a centralized "cron"? From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 17 11:35:10 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28951 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:35:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from linux.borf.com (mach249.borf.com [205.185.197.249] (may be forged)) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28939 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:35:02 -0400 (EDT) From: sah@borf.com Received: from localhost (sah@localhost) by linux.borf.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29579 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 10:35:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: linux.borf.com: sah owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 10:35:45 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Serial port on an ibm 600E Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10007170952560.29494-100000@linux.borf.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Greetings, We're having trouble getting the serial port working on our ibm 600e laptop. We've hooked the port up to an oscilloscope and it's recognized until plan 9 starts to boot. Then, we get nothing out of the transmit pin. Any ideas? Sam -------------------------------------------------------------- Sam Hopkins sah@borf.com "... let us tame the savageness of man, and make gentle the life of this world." From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 17 12:07:29 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA29854 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:07:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from indosuez.com ([195.115.40.229]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA29844 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:07:21 -0400 (EDT) From: boyd.roberts@ca-indosuez.com Received: from SNPAR12. (mailer@fw-local [192.168.192.6]) by indosuez.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA26574 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 18:05:04 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by SNPAR12.(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) id 4125691F.005E6C7D ; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 18:11:21 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: BANQUE INDOSUEZ To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <4125691F.005E6ADA.00@SNPAR12.> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 18:08:36 +0200 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9f._:_Re:_[9fans]_allow?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; Boundary="0__=331nrrSd2nWgBxuWrOV0SrZWOrftEp7hq8rX7R5GDI1gGebgamRLNpNR" Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu --0__=331nrrSd2nWgBxuWrOV0SrZWOrftEp7hq8rX7R5GDI1gGebgamRLNpNR Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable and who's gonna re-run it (authenticated) after a server crash? plan 9 auth is pretty neat, but it bites you back too. =20 (Embedded =20 image moved "Douglas A. Gwyn" <gwyn@arl.army.mil> =20 to file: 17/07/2000 17:11 =20 pic15263.pcx) =20 =20 Veuillez r=E9pondre =E0 9fans@cse.psu.edu Pour: 9fans@cse.psu.edu cc: (ccc: Boyd ROBERTS/EST/DOSI/BANQUE_INDOSUEZ/FR) Objet: Re: [9fans] allow = --0__=331nrrSd2nWgBxuWrOV0SrZWOrftEp7hq8rX7R5GDI1gGebgamRLNpNR Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > Cron in such a system becomes much harder. The cron process has to > possess some of my private keys in order to do it's job. I don't see that -- surely a "user" could fire up its own cron-ish process to perform scheduled tasks. Why does there have to be a centralized "cron"? --0__=331nrrSd2nWgBxuWrOV0SrZWOrftEp7hq8rX7R5GDI1gGebgamRLNpNR Content-type: application/octet-stream; name="pic15263.pcx" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pic15263.pcx" Content-transfer-encoding: base64 CgUBCAAAAABoACwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAABaQABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPH E8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sT zRPHE8MTwhPwEwzIBgzYE8wTxhPDE8IT7hPOBtcTzBPGE8MTE+wTwgbCBwbCEgbCEgbCEsUG1hPL E8YTwxMT6hMMwgYHwgLCAwISwgfEEsMCwwbVE8sTxRPDExPpE8MGAwcCBwMCwhLDB8ISwgISwgLD BtUTyhPFE8MTE+gTwgIHA8ICEw4DDgLDE8USwwLCEMIG1BPKE8UTwxMT5xMCAwcDAg4TDgITwgIS D8ISD8ISBRICEcICwwbUE8oTxRPCExPmEwYCBwMCDgIOwgLDExITEhPCEg8GxgLDBtMMDAfJE8QT whMT5hMGwwITBgMCDhLFEw8SE8ISBgIDwhIDEsMGB9MDxwwHxRPDExPlEwYHAhESAg8CwhMPwhMP xBMPxRIQwgIDAgMCBtMDxwPEDAfDE8IT4RMHwwzCBgLCEhMCDxLIE8MSD8MSwwIQAwIDBgfSDMkD wgPCDAfCExPbEwfGDMIDDAIHERITEhMSwxMPwxMPwxPDEgIDAgMCwwMCBgzREwfHDMYDDMITE9YT B8UMyAMGB8ICBhLDAsYTEhMSExIPwhIHAgcCAwUQAgYRBgfSE8UTB8QMwgMMwhMT0hMHxAzLA8IM BsISDxESExITAw4DxBMSExITwxICBwPCAsMDDMIGB9ITyRMHwwzCExPPEwfDDMkDxQwHwhMGBxIT AhECEwMOAg7DExITDxMPwxIDAgMCBwMCDAYRBgfSE8kTwhPCDMITE8wTB8MMxwPEDMIHxxMGxBLD Ag4DDgIGwg/IEgIDwgIDAgwCEMIGB9ITyRMHDAcMwhMTyhMHwgzGA8MMwgfMEwYHwhLCEAIOAg4C DhDDAhIPxhIFAgXDAgUCEQYH0hPHEwfCDAcPDMITE8gTB8IMxQPDDAfQEwbDEhDEAhAOEA4QwgLG EgcSBhIGBcMCBcIGB9ATB8UMEwfCDA8HDwwHwhMTxhMHwgzEA8MMB9MTBgfCEhADEMICDhAOEMIC EQIDxxIGBwbCAgUCEQYHyxMHxAwHwhMHEwzCEwcPBw8MB8MTE8UTBwzEA8IMB9YTBsQSEAMCA8UC EQIDAgPDEgcSBgfCBgUQAhDCBgfGEwfEDAfGE8INEwzCEw8HwgwHwxPCE8QTBwzDA8IMB9gTBgfE EhACEMYCEQIDAsQSBhLDBsICEALCBgfCEwfDDAfKEwfCDRMHwhPCDAfEE8ITE8MTBwzCA8IMB9oT DBIHwxLDDBEDxQIDAgPDEgYSBgfCBgIQAhAGDAfCEwzDE8MHyRMHwhPCBxMHxRPDExPDEwzCAwwH 3RMGxxICEQPDAgMCA8MSBhIGBwYMBhACEAIGDMMTDBPCB8YTwwfHEwfGE8MTwhPDEwwDDAfeEwYH xxICEQPDAgMCwhIGEgYHBgwGEAIQAsIGB8MTDMYTwwfKEwzGE8MTwhPDE8IMB98TDBLCB8USAgMR xAISB8ISBgcGDAYQBhAGEAYMB8MMB8kTwwfHEwzGE8MTwhPDEwwPwgzfEwYSB8ISB8ISAhECAwID EgcSBwYHBgwGEAYQxgzDD8IHxRPDB8kTBwzGE8MTwhPDEwzDD8QM3BPCBhIGwxIGAhECAwIHBgcG yAzJDxMHzRMHwwwHxxPDE8ITwxMHDMYPxwwH1BMGEgYSBhLLDM4PwwwTDMcTwgfEDAfJE8QTwhMT xBMHwgzLD9sM0w/GDAfDEwzDEwfEDAfLE8YTwxMTxhMHxAztD8gMBgfIE8QMB84TxxPDE8ITyhMH xwzbD8sMEAUMBcIMwgYH1RPKE8UTwxMT0RMH2wwGEAYQBhACBQwFDAUMBgwHBgfWE8sTxRPDExPu EwYMBhAGEAIGDAYMwwYH1xPLE8YTwxMT8BPKBgfYE8wTxhPDExP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPH E8MTwhMMAAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD/ /wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8A AAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A //8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAA AP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA /wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCk gICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vw oKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw //vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzA psrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDA wNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICA wMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACA AICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACA gACA//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP////// --0__=331nrrSd2nWgBxuWrOV0SrZWOrftEp7hq8rX7R5GDI1gGebgamRLNpNR-- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 17 12:12:20 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA00076 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:12:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA00071 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:12:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007171612.MAA00071@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Serial port on an ibm 600E From: "rob pike" <rob@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:12:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ivcmpxusaxsuwukltidvdplkno" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ivcmpxusaxsuwukltidvdplkno Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does your 600E have an infrared port? We had to use the thinkpad features editor to disable the infrared port before the serial port would work on my 560. -rob --upas-ivcmpxusaxsuwukltidvdplkno Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Jul 17 11:51:21 EDT 2000 Received: from cse.psu.edu ([130.203.3.50]) by plan9; Mon Jul 17 11:51:20 EDT 2000 Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA29006; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:35:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by claven.cse.psu.edu (bulk_mailer v1.5); Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:35:14 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28951 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:35:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from linux.borf.com (mach249.borf.com [205.185.197.249] (may be forged)) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28939 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:35:02 -0400 (EDT) From: sah@borf.com Received: from localhost (sah@localhost) by linux.borf.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29579 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 10:35:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: linux.borf.com: sah owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 10:35:45 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Serial port on an ibm 600E Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10007170952560.29494-100000@linux.borf.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Greetings, We're having trouble getting the serial port working on our ibm 600e laptop. We've hooked the port up to an oscilloscope and it's recognized until plan 9 starts to boot. Then, we get nothing out of the transmit pin. Any ideas? Sam -------------------------------------------------------------- Sam Hopkins sah@borf.com "... let us tame the savageness of man, and make gentle the life of this world." --upas-ivcmpxusaxsuwukltidvdplkno-- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 17 12:29:57 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA00614 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:29:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA00609 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:29:52 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200007171629.MAA00609@cse.psu.edu> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:29:50 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: Réf._:_Re:_[9fans]_allow MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-hotzhplllecripwemyogwzzhpk" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-hotzhplllecripwemyogwzzhpk Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That's part of my point. The other is that I don't necessarily like leaving a system up running as me just to do cron's for me. Part of the beauty of Plan 9 is that at work, I sit down at any machine, turn it on, and use it as my terminal. I don't want to hog any of those machines or leave them logged on at night as me. --upas-hotzhplllecripwemyogwzzhpk Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Jul 17 12:23:20 EDT 2000 Received: from cse.psu.edu ([130.203.3.50]) by plan9; Mon Jul 17 12:23:19 EDT 2000 Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA29895; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:07:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by claven.cse.psu.edu (bulk_mailer v1.5); Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:07:34 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA29854 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:07:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from indosuez.com ([195.115.40.229]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA29844 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:07:21 -0400 (EDT) From: boyd.roberts@ca-indosuez.com Received: from SNPAR12. (mailer@fw-local [192.168.192.6]) by indosuez.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA26574 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 18:05:04 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by SNPAR12.(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) id 4125691F.005E6C7D ; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 18:11:21 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: BANQUE INDOSUEZ To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <4125691F.005E6ADA.00@SNPAR12.> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 18:08:36 +0200 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9f._:_Re:_[9fans]_allow?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; Boundary="0__=331nrrSd2nWgBxuWrOV0SrZWOrftEp7hq8rX7R5GDI1gGebgamRLNpNR" Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk --0__=331nrrSd2nWgBxuWrOV0SrZWOrftEp7hq8rX7R5GDI1gGebgamRLNpNR Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable and who's gonna re-run it (authenticated) after a server crash? plan 9 auth is pretty neat, but it bites you back too. =20 (Embedded =20 image moved "Douglas A. Gwyn" <gwyn@arl.army.mil> =20 to file: 17/07/2000 17:11 =20 pic15263.pcx) =20 =20 Veuillez r=E9pondre =E0 9fans@cse.psu.edu Pour: 9fans@cse.psu.edu cc: (ccc: Boyd ROBERTS/EST/DOSI/BANQUE_INDOSUEZ/FR) Objet: Re: [9fans] allow = --0__=331nrrSd2nWgBxuWrOV0SrZWOrftEp7hq8rX7R5GDI1gGebgamRLNpNR Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > Cron in such a system becomes much harder. The cron process has to > possess some of my private keys in order to do it's job. I don't see that -- surely a "user" could fire up its own cron-ish process to perform scheduled tasks. Why does there have to be a centralized "cron"? --0__=331nrrSd2nWgBxuWrOV0SrZWOrftEp7hq8rX7R5GDI1gGebgamRLNpNR Content-type: application/octet-stream; name="pic15263.pcx" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pic15263.pcx" Content-transfer-encoding: base64 CgUBCAAAAABoACwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAABaQABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPH E8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sT zRPHE8MTwhPwEwzIBgzYE8wTxhPDE8IT7hPOBtcTzBPGE8MTE+wTwgbCBwbCEgbCEgbCEsUG1hPL E8YTwxMT6hMMwgYHwgLCAwISwgfEEsMCwwbVE8sTxRPDExPpE8MGAwcCBwMCwhLDB8ISwgISwgLD BtUTyhPFE8MTE+gTwgIHA8ICEw4DDgLDE8USwwLCEMIG1BPKE8UTwxMT5xMCAwcDAg4TDgITwgIS D8ISD8ISBRICEcICwwbUE8oTxRPCExPmEwYCBwMCDgIOwgLDExITEhPCEg8GxgLDBtMMDAfJE8QT whMT5hMGwwITBgMCDhLFEw8SE8ISBgIDwhIDEsMGB9MDxwwHxRPDExPlEwYHAhESAg8CwhMPwhMP xBMPxRIQwgIDAgMCBtMDxwPEDAfDE8IT4RMHwwzCBgLCEhMCDxLIE8MSD8MSwwIQAwIDBgfSDMkD wgPCDAfCExPbEwfGDMIDDAIHERITEhMSwxMPwxMPwxPDEgIDAgMCwwMCBgzREwfHDMYDDMITE9YT B8UMyAMGB8ICBhLDAsYTEhMSExIPwhIHAgcCAwUQAgYRBgfSE8UTB8QMwgMMwhMT0hMHxAzLA8IM BsISDxESExITAw4DxBMSExITwxICBwPCAsMDDMIGB9ITyRMHwwzCExPPEwfDDMkDxQwHwhMGBxIT AhECEwMOAg7DExITDxMPwxIDAgMCBwMCDAYRBgfSE8kTwhPCDMITE8wTB8MMxwPEDMIHxxMGxBLD Ag4DDgIGwg/IEgIDwgIDAgwCEMIGB9ITyRMHDAcMwhMTyhMHwgzGA8MMwgfMEwYHwhLCEAIOAg4C DhDDAhIPxhIFAgXDAgUCEQYH0hPHEwfCDAcPDMITE8gTB8IMxQPDDAfQEwbDEhDEAhAOEA4QwgLG EgcSBhIGBcMCBcIGB9ATB8UMEwfCDA8HDwwHwhMTxhMHwgzEA8MMB9MTBgfCEhADEMICDhAOEMIC EQIDxxIGBwbCAgUCEQYHyxMHxAwHwhMHEwzCEwcPBw8MB8MTE8UTBwzEA8IMB9YTBsQSEAMCA8UC EQIDAgPDEgcSBgfCBgUQAhDCBgfGEwfEDAfGE8INEwzCEw8HwgwHwxPCE8QTBwzDA8IMB9gTBgfE EhACEMYCEQIDAsQSBhLDBsICEALCBgfCEwfDDAfKEwfCDRMHwhPCDAfEE8ITE8MTBwzCA8IMB9oT DBIHwxLDDBEDxQIDAgPDEgYSBgfCBgIQAhAGDAfCEwzDE8MHyRMHwhPCBxMHxRPDExPDEwzCAwwH 3RMGxxICEQPDAgMCA8MSBhIGBwYMBhACEAIGDMMTDBPCB8YTwwfHEwfGE8MTwhPDEwwDDAfeEwYH xxICEQPDAgMCwhIGEgYHBgwGEAIQAsIGB8MTDMYTwwfKEwzGE8MTwhPDE8IMB98TDBLCB8USAgMR xAISB8ISBgcGDAYQBhAGEAYMB8MMB8kTwwfHEwzGE8MTwhPDEwwPwgzfEwYSB8ISB8ISAhECAwID EgcSBwYHBgwGEAYQxgzDD8IHxRPDB8kTBwzGE8MTwhPDEwzDD8QM3BPCBhIGwxIGAhECAwIHBgcG yAzJDxMHzRMHwwwHxxPDE8ITwxMHDMYPxwwH1BMGEgYSBhLLDM4PwwwTDMcTwgfEDAfJE8QTwhMT xBMHwgzLD9sM0w/GDAfDEwzDEwfEDAfLE8YTwxMTxhMHxAztD8gMBgfIE8QMB84TxxPDE8ITyhMH xwzbD8sMEAUMBcIMwgYH1RPKE8UTwxMT0RMH2wwGEAYQBhACBQwFDAUMBgwHBgfWE8sTxRPDExPu EwYMBhAGEAIGDAYMwwYH1xPLE8YTwxMT8BPKBgfYE8wTxhPDExP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPH E8MTwhMMAAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD/ /wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8A AAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A //8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAA AP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA /wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCk gICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vw oKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw //vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzA psrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDA wNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICA wMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACA AICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACA gACA//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP////// --0__=331nrrSd2nWgBxuWrOV0SrZWOrftEp7hq8rX7R5GDI1gGebgamRLNpNR-- --upas-hotzhplllecripwemyogwzzhpk-- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 17 12:50:17 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA01151 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:50:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from smtp3.fas.harvard.edu (root@smtp3.fas.harvard.edu [140.247.30.83]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA01147 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:50:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from poodle-pc.deas.harvard.edu (poodle-pc.deas.harvard.edu [140.247.51.128]) by smtp3.fas.harvard.edu with SMTP id MAA28027; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:50:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007171650.MAA28027@smtp3.fas.harvard.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Porting fun, part II From: "Russ Cox" <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:50:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu The reason to have pcc generate .8 or .v or .2 or whatever rather than .o is that we use it to build for multiple architectures in the same directory, just like 8c or vc or 2c, etc. See for example the gs or tex build processes (or don't; they're ugly). I think what you were looking for was ape/psh and then you can use CC=cc which will generate .o's. Russ From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 17 12:57:10 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA01377 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:57:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from pixar.pixar.com (pixar.pixar.com [138.72.10.20]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA01372 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:57:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from marvin.pixar.com (marvin.pixar.com [138.72.30.83]) by pixar.pixar.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28620 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 09:56:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from td@localhost) by marvin.pixar.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA905212 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 09:56:34 -0700 (PDT) From: "Tom Duff" <td@pixar.com> Message-Id: <10007170956.ZM905012@marvin> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 09:56:33 -0700 In-Reply-To: boyd.roberts@ca-indosuez.com "[9fans] mothra" (Jul 17, 3:49pm) References: <4125691F.0051A93B.00@SNPAR12.> Reply-To: td@pixar.com X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mothra Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > how come mothra bit the dust? I wrote it. It was not in good condition when I left Bell Labs. Understantably, nobody else wanted anything to do with it, so it died. Its biggest shortcoming (other than its general internal hidousness) was that its document imaging model was fixed before <table> entered the picture. Deep down it believed that documents were running text with embedded line-breaks and indent changes, meaning there's no good way to get tables or frames to work. Also, if your browser doesn't closely match Netscape and Microsoft, people will believe that it just doesn't work, regardless of how good a job you do of meeting the published specifications. On the other hand, I still think its idea of how to handle navigation (mostly the panel with an LRU list of pages visited) was better than anything else I've seen. Writing a web browser is a fool's errand. The specification was changing faster than I could type, and still is. -- Tom Duff. Just a minute, I think I've got one in the car. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 17 13:20:09 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA02095 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 13:20:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from crufty.research.bell-labs.com (ns2.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.49]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA02085 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 13:20:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nslocum.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.8.38]) by crufty; Mon Jul 17 13:18:25 EDT 2000 Received: from HWTPC (hwt-pc.cs.bell-labs.com [135.104.53.98]) by nslocum.cs.bell-labs.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA22276185; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 13:18:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <014e01bff013$107dfbc0$62356887@HWTPC> From: "Howard Trickey" <howard@research.bell-labs.com> To: <td@pixar.com>, <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <4125691F.0051A93B.00@SNPAR12.> <10007170956.ZM905012@marvin> Subject: Re: [9fans] mothra Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 13:18:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Tom Duff wrote: > Writing a web browser is a fool's errand. The specification > was changing faster than I could type, and still is. Don't I know it! - Howard Trickey, erstwhile fool From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 17 13:27:25 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA02426 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 13:27:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA02421 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 13:27:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28255 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 19:27:13 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from copernicus.cs.utwente.nl by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.8.8+Sun/csrelay-Sol1.4/RB) id TAA22145; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 19:27:13 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost by copernicus.cs.utwente.nl (8.8.8+Sun/SMI-SVR4) id TAA27808; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 19:27:12 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200007171727.TAA27808@copernicus.cs.utwente.nl> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] linux vs. plan9 partition table inconsistencies? From: Axel Belinfante <Axel.Belinfante@cs.utwente.nl> X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~<x[UoHs%Ei=QZA X-Url: http://www.cs.utwente.nl/~belinfan/ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 19:27:12 +0200 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu [I posted this before in a larger message on june 19, but did not see a reply, nor could I find another message about this.] When I installed plan9 (june 12 snapshot) on a tecra 8000 laptop I already had an unused FAT partition filling the 'end' of the disk. Still, the plan9 installation program found about 5Mb of space, resembling more or less one cylinder, which surprised me. I deleted that last FAT partition, and then made a partion on the disk using the suggestions of partdisk (fdisk), simply using all space at the end of the disk. I did not use the sugestion by 'prep' but played a bit with the numbers, making the last sub-partiion using 'a name . $'. However, if I now try to look at the partitions on linux (RedHat 6.0) using 'cfdisk', it complains: Bad primary partition 3: Partition ends after end-of-disk. When I use linux 'fdisk' it shows that the number of cylinders on my disk is 1718, and the Plan9 partition ends at cylinder 1719. If I use linux fdisk's 'v' command to 'verify' the partition table it says: 'Total allocated sectors 27608872 greater than the maximum 2759670'. Should this worry me? Did I do something wrong when I used plan9 fdisk? Thanks, Axel. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 17 14:16:19 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA03753 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 14:16:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from marge.cyber-dyne.com (root@marge.cyber-dyne.com [207.189.172.1]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA03747 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 14:16:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cyber-dyne.com (IDENT:root@rac0D.cyber-dyne.com [207.189.172.163]) by marge.cyber-dyne.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA25284 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:16:10 -0700 Received: (from randolph@localhost) by cyber-dyne.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA03433 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:16:09 -0700 Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:16:08 -0700 From: Randolph Fritz <randolph@cyber-dyne.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Porting fun, part II Message-ID: <20000717111608.B3398@cyber-dyne.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200007171650.MAA28027@smtp3.fas.harvard.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200007171650.MAA28027@smtp3.fas.harvard.edu>; from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com on Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 12:50:09PM -0400 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 12:50:09PM -0400, Russ Cox wrote: > > I think what you were looking for was > ape/psh and then you can use CC=cc > which will generate .o's. > I stand corrected. Duh. -- Randolph Fritz Eugene, Oregon, USA From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 17 14:39:40 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA04478 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 14:39:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA04465 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 14:39:32 -0400 (EDT) From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200007171839.OAA04465@cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] Adaptec AHA-154x support Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 14:39:15 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu I've added code to allow the AHA-1542x to be used when specified in plan9.ini. It will be in the next update. I'll mail it to anyone who wants it beforehand. --jim From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 17 15:10:57 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA05373 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 15:10:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ohio.river.org (river.org [209.24.233.15]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA05366 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 15:10:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from ru@localhost) by ohio.river.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA11630; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:10:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:10:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200007171910.MAA11630@ohio.river.org> From: Richard <ru@ohio.river.org> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9f._:_Re:_[9fans]_Silly_porting_fun_(RC_for_Uni?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?x)?= In-Reply-To: <4125691F.003EAEEA.00@SNPAR12.> References: <4125691F.003EAEEA.00@SNPAR12.> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu boyd roberts writes: >used the unix rc for years; well written, solid as a rock. Randolph Fritz writes: >I've switched, myself. I rewrote one script in rc and decided it was >time. do you 2 use it as your interactive shell, too, or just for scripts? From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 17 15:28:30 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA06027 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 15:28:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from bio.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA06023 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 15:28:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 440 invoked by uid 991); 17 Jul 2000 19:28:25 -0000 Message-Id: <200007171726.TAA27800@copernicus.cs.utwente.nl> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] dossrv: I/O error: dev 3 sector ..., read: 0, should be 4608 From: Axel Belinfante <Axel.Belinfante@cs.utwente.nl> X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~<x[UoHs%Ei=QZA X-Url: http://www.cs.utwente.nl/~belinfan/ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 19:26:48 +0200 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu During and after installation of the june 12 version I get the error mentioned in the subject for some files from a WIN95 FAT32 partition, while trying to read them using dossrv. During installation of plan9, this problem caused making the backup copy of msdos.sys to fail. After installation, when I have done 'c:' and then do 'du -a /n/c:' I get a list of error messages. The 4608 seems to be the Trksize (= Sectorsize*Sect2trk from dossrv/iotrack.h). I found this in the source at <http://offworld.fac.cs.cmu.edu/plan9/source//src/cmd/dossrv/devio.c#L23> The problem seems to be reproducable, i.e. repeatedly trying to get the wordcount of a file that showed the problem once keeps returning the error. Also, it reproduces for the same files over a (warm) reboot. It shows up, among other things, for some directories that (according to Linux 'ls') have a size of 4096. I can read those files/directories without problem using Linux. Is this a known problem? If not, is there any information that I could provide to help track down the problem? Thanks, Axel. -- <Axel.Belinfante@cs.utwente.nl> <URL:http://www.cs.utwente.nl/~belinfan/> University of Twente, Dept. of Computer Science, Formal Methods & Tools Group P.O. Box 217; NL-7500 AE Enschede. Phone: +31 53 4893774; Fax: +31 53 4893247 "ili ne sciis ke estas neebla do ili simple faris" -- Loesje From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 17 15:49:29 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA06825 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 15:49:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from marge.cyber-dyne.com (root@marge.cyber-dyne.com [207.189.172.1]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA06812 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 15:49:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cyber-dyne.com (IDENT:root@rac0D.cyber-dyne.com [207.189.172.163]) by marge.cyber-dyne.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA29048 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:49:15 -0700 Received: (from randolph@localhost) by cyber-dyne.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA03897 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:49:14 -0700 Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:49:13 -0700 From: Randolph Fritz <randolph@cyber-dyne.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9f=2E_:_Re:_=5B9fans=5D_Silly_porting_fun_=28RC_for_Un?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?ix=29?= Message-ID: <20000717124913.B3806@cyber-dyne.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <4125691F.003EAEEA.00@SNPAR12.> <200007171910.MAA11630@ohio.river.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200007171910.MAA11630@ohio.river.org>; from ru@ohio.river.org on Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 12:10:49PM -0700 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 12:10:49PM -0700, Richard wrote: > boyd roberts writes: > > >used the unix rc for years; well written, solid as a rock. > > Randolph Fritz writes: > > >I've switched, myself. I rewrote one script in rc and decided it was > >time. > > do you 2 use it as your interactive shell, too, or just for scripts? Yes, I do. In fact I sometimes write little scripts interactively. I really appreciate the predictable quoting behavior. On the other hand, I do miss command completion and job control. Still...I'm not going back. -- Randolph Fritz Eugene, Oregon, USA From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 17 17:03:47 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA09069 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 17:03:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from smtp4.fas.harvard.edu (root@smtp4.fas.harvard.edu [140.247.30.84]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA09065 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 17:03:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from poodle-pc.deas.harvard.edu (poodle-pc.deas.harvard.edu [140.247.51.128]) by smtp4.fas.harvard.edu with SMTP id RAA17759 Message-Id: <200007172103.RAA17759@smtp4.fas.harvard.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, Axel.Belinfante@cs.utwente.nl Subject: Re: [9fans] dossrv: I/O error: dev 3 sector ..., read: 0, should be 4608 From: "Russ Cox" <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 17:03:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu The first thing to do is see if the sector numbers make any sense. First, multiply them by 512 and see if they're still 31-bit numbers. If not, you need to change devio.c thusly: g% diff /n/dump/2000/0601/sys/src/cmd/dossrv/devio.c devio.c 38c38 < seek(xf->dev, xf->offset+addr*Sectorsize, 0); --- > seek(xf->dev, xf->offset+(vlong)addr*Sectorsize, 0); 57c57 < seek(xf->dev, xf->offset+addr*Sectorsize, 0); --- > seek(xf->dev, xf->offset+(vlong)addr*Sectorsize, 0); g% If that's not the problem, make sure you actually can read from those sectors: dd -if /dev/sdC0/dos -bs 512 -count 9 -iseek sectornumber >/dev/null Russ From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 17 17:14:57 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA09401 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 17:14:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (none@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA09397 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 17:14:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 17:14:51 -0400 (EDT) From: arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20000717204606.248.qmail@nx.aichi-u.ac.jp> MBOX-Line: From kenji Tue Jul 18 05:46:05 2000 Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3J v130.3) Subject: Re: [9fans] allow Reply-To: Kenji Arisawa <arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp> References: <200007162254.SAA13583@cse.psu.edu> <39731A76.C2743CF2@arl.army.mil> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Hello, Douglas A. Gwyn wrote: >presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: >> Cron in such a system becomes much harder. The cron process has to >> possess some of my private keys in order to do it's job. > >I don't see that -- surely a "user" could fire up its own cron-ish >process to perform scheduled tasks. Why does there have to be a >centralized "cron"? I also think we can discard "cron from authserver" if it is hard to build public key system. As a matter of fact, I am using a cron that was rewritten to be executed without authserver. I think the cron from authserver is unnecessarily complicated. Kenji Arisawa E-mail: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Jul 17 22:48:52 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA15019 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 22:48:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from barb.worldchat.com (root@barb.wchat.on.ca [204.138.239.65]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA15011 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 22:48:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldchat.com (asv90-1-p5.wchat.on.ca [205.210.137.21]) by barb.worldchat.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA09503 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 22:48:43 -0400 Message-ID: <3973B78C.D049BF6B@worldchat.com> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 21:49:00 -0400 From: Milan Zimmermann <mzimmerm@worldchat.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] best supported vga card? References: <200007131942.PAA11942@cruiser.nevex.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Hello, I am going to build a PC which I want to run Plan 9. On my other PC's at home I have problems with the video cards. The consensus seems to be here that ATI Xpert 98 is supported well, so that looks like a buy. I know there is an Xpert 98 AGP/8Mb. I have a few questions/does someone here have knowledge of: - does anyone have (any) supported (I mean working) card with 16Mb or 32 Mb? I'd like to get more than 8Mb - is the supported ATI Xpert 98 the AGP version? (well there may not be a PCI version...) Thanks, Milan Steve Kotsopoulos wrote: > > given that only mach64 and S3 Virge based cards currently support > acceleration and more than 8-bit depth, which is the best card for > the money today? I want at least 1280x1024x16 with acceleration. > > I've seen 8Meg Xpert 98 cards for $55. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 00:55:34 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA17005 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 00:55:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from trachyte.chigaku6.co.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.91.52]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA17001 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 00:55:28 -0400 (EDT) From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Message-Id: <200007180455.AAA17001@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Why rio instead of 8 1/2 Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:56:02 0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-lwtvadrrpgkwqocyjzxjhnsowv" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-lwtvadrrpgkwqocyjzxjhnsowv Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Rob! Now, I got that it shows the state of channel communication. I got another difficulty to understand how the rio works. Of course it comes from my personal inablility to read the sources, however, I suppose it's not so easy to some of Plan 9 users like me, either. 1) all the seven procs have the same memory size, and grows coincidently alltogether. Why? Only the process of threadmain() can grow, can't it? 2) proc wctlproc does only check "New" command, and writectl() is called from xfidwrite() which is checked by normal filsyproc(). So, why /srv/riowctl.$user.$pid is posted? The "New" command can also be checked from the normal filsysproc(), can't it? 3) filsysproc() calls file operation functions in fsys.c, and many of those functions call coresponding xfidxxx functions through channel x->c. Why these two processes are separated? Or what is the merrit to use channel for this purpose, but not just function call by pointer alone? Kenji --upas-lwtvadrrpgkwqocyjzxjhnsowv Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.103.2]) by granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19626 for <okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 08:37:06 +0900 Received: from cse.psu.edu (majordom@claven.cse.psu.edu [130.203.3.50]) by elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (8.9.3/3.7W-00051217) with ESMTP id IAA28075; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 08:37:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA14846; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 19:35:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by claven.cse.psu.edu (bulk_mailer v1.5); Thu, 13 Jul 2000 19:35:03 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA14786 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 19:34:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA14780 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 19:34:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007132334.TAA14780@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Why rio instead of 8 1/2 From: "rob pike" <rob@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 19:34:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Then, No. (2) and (5) procs are marked as rendez. I looked into sources, however, I failed to understand where the No.2 and 5 processes are called rendezvous. I know I'm missing something... They aren't called rendezvous, they're in the rendezvous state. That field of the ps output is the state of the process, typically a system call name (such as Wait, Read, etc.) or a process state (Fault, Rendez, etc.) -rob --upas-lwtvadrrpgkwqocyjzxjhnsowv-- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 02:27:48 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA18056 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 02:27:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA18051 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 02:27:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id IAA02380 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 08:27:31 +0200 (SAST) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 08:27:31 +0200 From: Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Mash Message-ID: <20000718082730.F2260@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200007161750.NAA09238@cse.psu.edu> <963777053.17893.0.nnrp-01.c2de4822@news.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <963777053.17893.0.nnrp-01.c2de4822@news.demon.co.uk>; from Chris Locke on Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 09:12:42AM +0000 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 09:12:42AM +0000, Chris Locke wrote: > > If you are interested in Mash you should check out > the new Inferno shell. > > There's a short paper on it here... > http://www.vitanuova.com/papers/sh.html I get an error, rather strange. > and a man page here... > http://www.vitanuova.com/man/1/sh.html I seem to recall the original Inferno shell being quite limited. The new man pages are encouraging :-) > oh, and here is the mash man page... > http://www.vitanuova.com/man/1/mash.html > Ha! Still there :-) Good. ++L From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 02:30:53 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA18187 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 02:30:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA18183 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 02:30:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id IAA02394 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 08:30:40 +0200 (SAST) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 08:30:39 +0200 From: Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=5B9fans=5D_Re:_R=E9f=2E_:_Re:_=5B9fans=5D_Silly_porting_?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?fun_=28RC_for_Unix=29?= Message-ID: <20000718083039.G2260@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <4125691F.003EAEEA.00@SNPAR12.> <20000717032916.A1998@cyber-dyne.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <20000717032916.A1998@cyber-dyne.com>; from Randolph Fritz on Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 03:29:16AM -0700 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 03:29:16AM -0700, Randolph Fritz wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 12:21:58PM +0200, boyd.roberts@ca-indosuez.com wrote: > > > > used the unix rc for years; well written, solid as a rock. > > > > I've switched, myself. I rewrote one script in rc and decided it was > time. :) Now if only mk would become standard on Unix... > Amusingly, Linux came out originally with RC as its shell, and that led me to the original Plan 9 papers, and from there to Plan 9. I presume I'm the only one who got here _that_ route!? ++L From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 03:16:49 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA18809 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 03:16:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ohio.river.org (river.org [209.24.233.15]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA18805 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 03:16:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from ru@localhost) by ohio.river.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA22194; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 00:16:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 00:16:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200007180716.AAA22194@ohio.river.org> From: Richard <ru@ohio.river.org> To: lucio@proxima.alt.za, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=5B9fans=5D_Re:_R=E9f=2E_:_Re:_=5B9fans=5D_Silly_porting_?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?fun_=28RC_for_Unix=29?= In-Reply-To: <20000718083039.G2260@cackle.proxima.alt.za> References: <4125691F.003EAEEA.00@SNPAR12.> <20000717032916.A1998@cyber-dyne.com> <20000718083039.G2260@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Lucio De Re writes: >Amusingly, Linux came out originally with RC as its shell, and that led >me to the original Plan 9 papers, and from there to Plan 9. I presume >I'm the only one who got here _that_ route!? who decided to use RC in early Linux? Linus? From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 03:17:27 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA18854 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 03:17:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from gsyc.escet.urjc.es (root@gsyc.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.45]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA18849 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 03:17:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (IDENT:root@nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by gsyc.escet.urjc.es (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id JAA07332 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:17:13 +0200 Received: (from nemo@localhost) by nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA00839; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:29:30 +0100 From: "Fco. J. Ballesteros" <nemo@gsyc.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14708.5482.591508.898668@nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:29:30 +0100 (WEST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9f._:_Re:_[9fans]_Silly_porting_fun_(RC_for_Uni?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?x)?= In-Reply-To: <200007171910.MAA11630@ohio.river.org> References: <4125691F.003EAEEA.00@SNPAR12.> <200007171910.MAA11630@ohio.river.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under Emacs 20.5.1 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >>>>> "Richard" == Richard <ru@ohio.river.org> writes: Richard> boyd roberts writes: >> used the unix rc for years; well written, solid as a rock. Richard> do you 2 use it as your interactive shell, too, or just Richard> for scripts? I use it for both. Very convenient. BTW, on ux you can use the readline klud^H^H^H library so that rc can edit the command line. -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html mail /\ - against microsoft attachments From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 03:43:08 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA19339 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 03:43:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (caldo.demon.co.uk [194.222.207.148]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA19333 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 03:43:02 -0400 (EDT) From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk Message-Id: <200007180743.DAA19333@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Mash Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 08:42:33 0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >>I seem to recall the original Inferno shell being quite limited. The >>new man pages are encouraging :-) it's still there as tiny/sh, because on small devices a simple command interpreter is useful for maintenance but one might begrudge the extra flash and memory that plumper shells consume. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 03:49:41 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA19511 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 03:49:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA19505 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 03:49:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id JAA02499 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:49:24 +0200 (SAST) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:49:22 +0200 From: Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] AUTH, FS, etc. Message-ID: <20000718094922.J2260@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu I have encountered a few seemingly unrelated problems, some are leftovers from a 2nd edition installation I am not yet ready to sacrifice. - A long time ago, I lost the AUTH/CPU server's ability to figure out or retain the IP information. Today, I presume it would obtain the info using DHCP. I'd like to know, however, where a PC-based CPU server saves this information. Currently, I have it in the plan9.ini file, but I have to accept each entry before the server can start. That's a pain. I tried destroying the NVRAM partition, but that only prompted me for the authentication information. From the 2ed manual: If you've just done the installation, the installer will already know the pertinent IP addresses for this machine; if not, you'll have to provide them. ... Nowhere can I find where the installer would have put them in the first place :-( - My 2ed file server is also being obstructive (and, once again, it is quite likely that I'm missing a significant bit of information). I have an "other" filesystem I created long ago on a separate drive and would now be very useful to hold the 3ed stuff until I can migrate everything. My problem is that I can't create files at the root of "other", I had to "create" a directory "3ed" in which I then unwrapped the various bits of distribution. This would be quite acceptable, except that mounting il!muddle!other/3ed seems much more difficult than just il!muddle!other (or is it just me? I'll come back to that, anyway) and in any case I would like to know _why_ I can write to the hierarchy from 3ed down, only. I used "ream" to drop restrictions on "other" but they really seemed to apply only a level below the root. - Coming back to CPU servers, I'm sticking to the 2ed one because it works. Just trying to boot a 3ed kernel on it goes no further than the CPU identification (i486DX-4/100) and reboots. It takes keen observation to catch the CPU id line, as the machine seems to reset immediately. Now, all I would want, is to bootp a different CPU kernel on the same hardware, but I can't determine what's causing the immediate reboot. As you can imagine, the 2ed kernels seem perfectly at home with the hardware. I think it's a motherboard thing, having swapped out a few adapters, but I'm willing to try a few other tricks if anyone can suggest them. - I also tried to boot a workstation nearly diskless by pointing its plan9.ini along the lines of bootfile=sdC0/9fat/9pcdisk rootdir=3ed rootspec=other bootdisk=il!192.96.32.134 I hadn't set my heart on success here, the man page for plan9.ini is a little unconvincing; the pain was to get the system restarted so I could restore the plan9.ini file to the point where the system would reboot correctly (and without a panic about not finding the file server or the specified file). I presume I should rather change the plan9.ini file on a floppy in future, I seem to recall someone pointing out that it would get priority in some fashion (someone care to expand on that?). I think it is moderately clear from the above that I was trying to bypass the problems with my 2ed file server, and I presume that with a little bit of hacking it can be done, but it must be easier to work with some help from the experts :-) The section on the root* and boot* entries in plan9.ini(8) can use some corrections, too. - Another point I'd like some help with is getting DHCP and BOOTP to cooperate - presently, to boot the 2ed CPU server, I have to switch off Ted Lemon's DHCPd and start the hacked version of CMU's BOOTPd which understands the P9 vendor extensions. I know it is none of this forum's business to deal with DHCP, but I wonder if it is possible, while I'm still stuck with limited boot capabilities, to persuade ISC DHCPd to handle the 2ed boot requirements. I'm caught in a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation, here. Thank, everyone, for your patience. ++L From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 03:58:50 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA19779 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 03:58:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA19775 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 03:58:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id JAA02528 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:58:31 +0200 (SAST) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:58:30 +0200 From: Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=5B9fans=5D_Re:_=5B9fans=5D_Re:_R=E9f=2E_:_Re:_=5B9fans?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?=5D_Silly_porting_fun_=28RC_for_Unix=29?= Message-ID: <20000718095830.L2260@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <4125691F.003EAEEA.00@SNPAR12.> <20000717032916.A1998@cyber-dyne.com> <20000718083039.G2260@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <200007180716.AAA22194@ohio.river.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <200007180716.AAA22194@ohio.river.org>; from Richard on Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 12:16:21AM -0700 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 12:16:21AM -0700, Richard wrote: > > who decided to use RC in early Linux? Linus? I don't really know, but it was early enough (I think it may have been before the great Torval/Tannembaum debate, even) to have been entirely under Linus' development. I seem to recall it involved a lack of public domain shells at the time. In passing, I got to use the rather extraordinary command history facility that was released with rc for unix and I must confess it seemed adequate. I may have more trouble today, of course. I wonder if there isn't merit in recording one's commands in some creative fashion (why have thirteen consecutive copies of "ls -l" in the history file?) and handing them to PLUMB is some useful manner? Thoughts? ++L From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 04:07:51 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA19987 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 04:07:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (caldo.demon.co.uk [194.222.207.148]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA19981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 04:07:44 -0400 (EDT) From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk Message-Id: <200007180807.EAA19981@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Re: interaction Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:07:19 0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Richard> do you 2 use it as your interactive shell, too, or just Richard> for scripts? when i expect to repeat or find i do repeat a particular sequence of commands, rather than hunt in a transcript or type incantations to hunt them down, i usually define a function or two (say `x') that encapsulates the sequence, and use that. (it also has the advantage that i can squirt the definition into windows open on distinct directories.) in acme and rio i might have a window open on a file of common sequences for editing, snarfing and sending into shells and other commands. when developing in acme, i have the word mk typed in the tag of the directory window so that one click of a button will execute it and pop the diagnostics into another window for use by button 3. i can have different commands for different windows (adiff /one/thing /another/thing is a common one at the moment). furthermore, in all but the function case i can see what i need and get what i see, and they all handle multiline commands sensibly, which i've never found true for most `richard the third' interfaces. in short, it's worth experimenting with the things the system gives you. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 04:09:07 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA20067 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 04:09:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (caldo.demon.co.uk [194.222.207.148]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA20062 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 04:09:00 -0400 (EDT) From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk Message-Id: <200007180809.EAA20062@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: [9fans]_Re:_[9fans]_Re:_Réf._:_Re:_[9fans Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:08:41 0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >>in the history file?) and handing them to PLUMB is some useful >>manner? Thoughts? thank you. i forgot to mention plumb. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 04:15:05 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA20292 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 04:15:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ri.cmu.edu (RI.CMU.EDU [128.2.222.162]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA20286 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 04:14:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FUJI.REM.CS.CMU.EDU by ri.cmu.edu id aa13014; 18 Jul 2000 4:14 EDT Received: from fuji.homenet (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fuji.rem.cs.cmu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA01467 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 04:14:36 -0400 Message-Id: <200007180814.EAA01467@fuji.rem.cs.cmu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] LXR Plan9 Browser Updated with 6/17 Sources Reply-to: Stephen Wynne <stevemw@place.org> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 04:14:35 -0400 From: Stephen Wynne <stevemw@mindspring.com> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu It's under "3.1" at http://offworld.fac.cs.cmu.edu/cgi-bin/9login From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 04:19:14 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA20451 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 04:19:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA20436 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 04:19:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id KAA02562 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 10:18:54 +0200 (SAST) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 10:18:53 +0200 From: Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Mash Message-ID: <20000718101853.M2260@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200007180743.DAA19333@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <200007180743.DAA19333@cse.psu.edu>; from forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk on Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 08:42:33AM +0000 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 08:42:33AM +0000, forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk wrote: > > >>I seem to recall the original Inferno shell being quite limited. The > >>new man pages are encouraging :-) > > it's still there as tiny/sh, because on small devices a simple command interpreter > is useful for maintenance but one might begrudge the extra flash and memory > that plumper shells consume. Depends, I guess. The 8K AVR device I'm toying with isn't likely to run any shells at all :-( More's the pity. BTW, I just accessed Vita Nuova's web site for the first time since the Plan 9 release (I must have missed an announcement about Inferno in the excitement) and my impressions are that it is very striking. USD 300 is around SAR 2200, just around UKP 200, I think. I'm starting to save right now :-) More seriously, can I get some encouragement from Vita Nuova to support your products in South Africa? No need for any form of exclusivity, it may suffice to let interested parties know that they can approach me for assistance. ++L From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 04:25:05 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA20700 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 04:25:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA20684 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 04:24:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id KAA02586 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 10:24:30 +0200 (SAST) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 10:24:29 +0200 From: Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Mash Message-ID: <20000718102429.N2260@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200007180743.DAA19333@cse.psu.edu> <20000718101853.M2260@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <20000718101853.M2260@cackle.proxima.alt.za>; from Lucio De Re on Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 10:18:53AM +0200 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Oh, dear! Caught by the Reply-to :-) :-) :-) On Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 10:18:53AM +0200, Lucio De Re wrote: > > On Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 08:42:33AM +0000, forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk wrote: > > > > >>I seem to recall the original Inferno shell being quite limited. The > > >>new man pages are encouraging :-) > > > > it's still there as tiny/sh, because on small devices a simple command interpreter > > is useful for maintenance but one might begrudge the extra flash and memory > > that plumper shells consume. > > Depends, I guess. The 8K AVR device I'm toying with isn't likely to > run any shells at all :-( More's the pity. > > BTW, I just accessed Vita Nuova's web site for the first time since the > Plan 9 release (I must have missed an announcement about Inferno in the > excitement) and my impressions are that it is very striking. > > USD 300 is around SAR 2200, just around UKP 200, I think. I'm starting > to save right now :-) > > More seriously, can I get some encouragement from Vita Nuova to support > your products in South Africa? No need for any form of exclusivity, > it may suffice to let interested parties know that they can approach me > for assistance. > > ++L <blush> From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 04:28:28 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA20833 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 04:28:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (caldo.demon.co.uk [194.222.207.148]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA20825 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 04:28:19 -0400 (EDT) From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk Message-Id: <200007180828.EAA20825@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] AUTH, FS, etc. Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:27:29 0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >> it in the plan9.ini file, but I have to accept each entry before >> the server can start. That's a pain. I tried destroying the the prompt times out in 15 seconds and accepts the default. bootargs=il!144.32.112.69 -g 144.32.112.75 ether /net/ether0 144.32.112.70 255.255.254.0 >> My problem is that I can't create files at the root of "other", I did you mount -c? >> the CPU identification (i486DX-4/100) and reboots. It takes keen just a thought: try curbing its memory probe in memory.c. it tries 768Mbytes. different 486 chipsets did different peculiar things. set *maxmem=memsizeinbytes (note the *) in plan9.ini From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 04:40:36 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA21171 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 04:40:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA21167 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 04:40:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id KAA02624 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 10:40:19 +0200 (SAST) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 10:40:18 +0200 From: Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] AUTH, FS, etc. Message-ID: <20000718104018.P2260@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200007180828.EAA20825@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <200007180828.EAA20825@cse.psu.edu>; from forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk on Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 09:27:29AM +0000 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 09:27:29AM +0000, forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk wrote: > > >> it in the plan9.ini file, but I have to accept each entry before > >> the server can start. That's a pain. I tried destroying the > > the prompt times out in 15 seconds and accepts the default. > I don't believe you, but I'll try anyway. But before I do, let me argue that it's not the (il, local) prompt, it's the five or six prompts for local IP address, mask, gateway, fileserver and auth server addresses. You (I remember) encouraged me to put them in the plan9.ini file, to save me having to type them, but I do wish "b" or the kernel would find them in a better place. > bootargs=il!144.32.112.69 -g 144.32.112.75 ether /net/ether0 144.32.112.70 255.255.254.0 > 3ed. But well worth knowing. > >> My problem is that I can't create files at the root of "other", I > > did you mount -c? > <blush, again> > >> the CPU identification (i486DX-4/100) and reboots. It takes keen > > just a thought: try curbing its memory probe in memory.c. it tries 768Mbytes. > different 486 chipsets did different peculiar things. set *maxmem=memsizeinbytes > (note the *) in plan9.ini Will do. It's precisely 64Meg, so that may be significant. Much appreciated, now which one shall I try first? Hm, the other possibility may be the floppy drive, I know some of them are dicky, but I can never remember which, or how :-( ++L From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 04:45:22 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA21306 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 04:45:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA21301 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 04:45:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13ESnB-0004pW-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:31:53 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 08:25:44 GMT From: Steve Simon <steve@savan.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <397417F0.12175E62@savan.demon.co.uk> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <4125691F.003EAEEA.00@SNPAR12.>, <200007171910.MAA11630@ohio.river.org> Reply-To: steve@savan.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9f=2E?= : Re: [9fans] Silly porting fun (RC for Unix) Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Richard wrote: > > boyd roberts writes: > > >used the unix rc for years; well written, solid as a rock. > > Randolph Fritz writes: > > >I've switched, myself. I rewrote one script in rc and decided it was > >time. > > do you 2 use it as your interactive shell, too, or just for scripts? I use it for scripts and interactive under Unix & NT. There remains 1 minor bug to do with path eveluation under NT + Netware, which I am pretty sure is a bug in Cygwin/NT/Netware. If anyone is interested I shall be looking at this when my work machine gets upgraded in the next week or two :-) From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 04:45:46 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA21353 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 04:45:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA21328 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 04:45:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13ESnB-0004pQ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:31:53 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 08:25:22 GMT From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <gwyn@arl.army.mil> Message-ID: <397385A3.6AD65F99@arl.army.mil> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: (Tom, Duff), <10007170956.ZM905012@marvin> Subject: Re: [9fans] mothra Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Surely somebody must be trying to port Mozilla to Plan 9? From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 04:45:51 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA21366 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 04:45:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA21339 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 04:45:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13ESnB-0004pJ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:31:53 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 08:25:02 GMT From: Michael Jeffrey <michael@vitanuova.com> Message-ID: <963862171.4019.0.nnrp-08.9e98cd5e@news.demon.co.uk> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK References: <4125691F.0051A93B.00@SNPAR12.>, <014e01bff013$107dfbc0$62356887@HWTPC> Subject: Re: [9fans] mothra Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu we hope to start shipping Plan 9 CDs very soon. The CD will include an emulated version of Inferno which will in turn include Charon the Inferno browser. Apparently the fools errand has been passed on to us - we'll see what we can make of it. Michael Jeffrey From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 04:51:03 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA21712 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 04:51:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA21698 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 04:50:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id KAA02649 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 10:50:28 +0200 (SAST) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 10:50:27 +0200 From: Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] AUTH, FS, etc. Message-ID: <20000718105025.Q2260@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200007180828.EAA20825@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <200007180828.EAA20825@cse.psu.edu>; from forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk on Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 09:27:29AM +0000 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 09:27:29AM +0000, forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk wrote: > > >> the CPU identification (i486DX-4/100) and reboots. It takes keen > > just a thought: try curbing its memory probe in memory.c. it tries 768Mbytes. > different 486 chipsets did different peculiar things. set *maxmem=memsizeinbytes > (note the *) in plan9.ini Well done, Dr Forsyth. Made a BIG difference. Many thanks. ++L From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 04:59:03 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA22003 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 04:59:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA21997 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 04:58:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id KAA02665 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 10:58:39 +0200 (SAST) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 10:58:38 +0200 From: Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mothra Message-ID: <20000718105838.R2260@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <10007170956.ZM905012@marvin> <397385A3.6AD65F99@arl.army.mil> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <397385A3.6AD65F99@arl.army.mil>; from Douglas A. Gwyn on Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 08:25:22AM +0000 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 08:25:22AM +0000, Douglas A. Gwyn wrote: > > Surely somebody must be trying to port Mozilla to Plan 9? Hopefully not. Maybe Opera, but does one really need Netscape's near-operating system effort just to present a few pictures? I think we may want to reverse the paradigm: when we were considering http options, it was established that the filesystem representation would fall short of needs. But perhaps a graphic model can be designed with HTML as its input, and one may even make it flexible enough to deal with revamps such as the addition of tables and frames. I have a vague feeling that this can be mapped onto a filesystem, or am I dreaming? ++L From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 05:31:24 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA22560 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 05:31:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from indosuez.com ([195.115.40.229]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA22548 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 05:30:48 -0400 (EDT) From: boyd.roberts@ca-indosuez.com Received: from SNPAR12. (mailer@fw-local [192.168.192.6]) by indosuez.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA13271 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 11:28:07 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by SNPAR12.(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) id 41256920.003A160D ; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 11:34:27 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: BANQUE INDOSUEZ To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <41256920.003A1559.00@SNPAR12.> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 11:31:44 +0200 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9f._:_R=E9f._:_Re:_[9fans]_Silly_porting_fun_(R?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?C_for_Unix)?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; Boundary="0__=KiVjAFoiT6BhhvinhA77CMTB2qPbiTo9qnRd2gn1423cE9WeTZ9xv7Tn" Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu --0__=KiVjAFoiT6BhhvinhA77CMTB2qPbiTo9qnRd2gn1423cE9WeTZ9xv7Tn Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable i used it interactively and for _personal_ scripts. any sysadmin stuff was written in the _bourne_ shell, in a V7 style (ie. i avoided functions unless absolutely necessary). however, there's a real killer rc script that i did use for one particularly nasty sysadmin job at: http://www.planete.net/~boyd/code/rename.html btw: this is going back nearly 10 years ('91/92/93). =20 (Embedded =20 image moved Richard <ru@ohio.river.org> =20 to file: 17/07/2000 21:10 =20 pic29322.pcx) =20 =20 Veuillez r=E9pondre =E0 9fans@cse.psu.edu Pour: 9fans@cse.psu.edu cc: (ccc: Boyd ROBERTS/EST/DOSI/BANQUE_INDOSUEZ/FR) Objet: R=E9f. : Re: [9fans] Silly porting fun (RC for Unix) = --0__=KiVjAFoiT6BhhvinhA77CMTB2qPbiTo9qnRd2gn1423cE9WeTZ9xv7Tn Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline boyd roberts writes: >used the unix rc for years; well written, solid as a rock. Randolph Fritz writes: >I've switched, myself. I rewrote one script in rc and decided it was >time. do you 2 use it as your interactive shell, too, or just for scripts? --0__=KiVjAFoiT6BhhvinhA77CMTB2qPbiTo9qnRd2gn1423cE9WeTZ9xv7Tn Content-type: application/pdf; name="pic29322.pcx" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pic29322.pcx" Content-transfer-encoding: base64 Content-Description: Adobe Portable Document CgUBCAAAAABoACwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAABaQABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPH E8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sT zRPHE8MTwhPwEwzIBgzYE8wTxhPDE8IT7hPOBtcTzBPGE8MTE+wTwgbCBwbCEgbCEgbCEsUG1hPL E8YTwxMT6hMMwgYHwgLCAwISwgfEEsMCwwbVE8sTxRPDExPpE8MGAwcCBwMCwhLDB8ISwgISwgLD BtUTyhPFE8MTE+gTwgIHA8ICEw4DDgLDE8USwwLCEMIG1BPKE8UTwxMT5xMCAwcDAg4TDgITwgIS D8ISD8ISBRICEcICwwbUE8oTxRPCExPmEwYCBwMCDgIOwgLDExITEhPCEg8GxgLDBtMMDAfJE8QT whMT5hMGwwITBgMCDhLFEw8SE8ISBgIDwhIDEsMGB9MDxwwHxRPDExPlEwYHAhESAg8CwhMPwhMP xBMPxRIQwgIDAgMCBtMDxwPEDAfDE8IT4RMHwwzCBgLCEhMCDxLIE8MSD8MSwwIQAwIDBgfSDMkD wgPCDAfCExPbEwfGDMIDDAIHERITEhMSwxMPwxMPwxPDEgIDAgMCwwMCBgzREwfHDMYDDMITE9YT B8UMyAMGB8ICBhLDAsYTEhMSExIPwhIHAgcCAwUQAgYRBgfSE8UTB8QMwgMMwhMT0hMHxAzLA8IM BsISDxESExITAw4DxBMSExITwxICBwPCAsMDDMIGB9ITyRMHwwzCExPPEwfDDMkDxQwHwhMGBxIT AhECEwMOAg7DExITDxMPwxIDAgMCBwMCDAYRBgfSE8kTwhPCDMITE8wTB8MMxwPEDMIHxxMGxBLD Ag4DDgIGwg/IEgIDwgIDAgwCEMIGB9ITyRMHDAcMwhMTyhMHwgzGA8MMwgfMEwYHwhLCEAIOAg4C DhDDAhIPxhIFAgXDAgUCEQYH0hPHEwfCDAcPDMITE8gTB8IMxQPDDAfQEwbDEhDEAhAOEA4QwgLG EgcSBhIGBcMCBcIGB9ATB8UMEwfCDA8HDwwHwhMTxhMHwgzEA8MMB9MTBgfCEhADEMICDhAOEMIC EQIDxxIGBwbCAgUCEQYHyxMHxAwHwhMHEwzCEwcPBw8MB8MTE8UTBwzEA8IMB9YTBsQSEAMCA8UC EQIDAgPDEgcSBgfCBgUQAhDCBgfGEwfEDAfGE8INEwzCEw8HwgwHwxPCE8QTBwzDA8IMB9gTBgfE EhACEMYCEQIDAsQSBhLDBsICEALCBgfCEwfDDAfKEwfCDRMHwhPCDAfEE8ITE8MTBwzCA8IMB9oT DBIHwxLDDBEDxQIDAgPDEgYSBgfCBgIQAhAGDAfCEwzDE8MHyRMHwhPCBxMHxRPDExPDEwzCAwwH 3RMGxxICEQPDAgMCA8MSBhIGBwYMBhACEAIGDMMTDBPCB8YTwwfHEwfGE8MTwhPDEwwDDAfeEwYH xxICEQPDAgMCwhIGEgYHBgwGEAIQAsIGB8MTDMYTwwfKEwzGE8MTwhPDE8IMB98TDBLCB8USAgMR xAISB8ISBgcGDAYQBhAGEAYMB8MMB8kTwwfHEwzGE8MTwhPDEwwPwgzfEwYSB8ISB8ISAhECAwID EgcSBwYHBgwGEAYQxgzDD8IHxRPDB8kTBwzGE8MTwhPDEwzDD8QM3BPCBhIGwxIGAhECAwIHBgcG yAzJDxMHzRMHwwwHxxPDE8ITwxMHDMYPxwwH1BMGEgYSBhLLDM4PwwwTDMcTwgfEDAfJE8QTwhMT xBMHwgzLD9sM0w/GDAfDEwzDEwfEDAfLE8YTwxMTxhMHxAztD8gMBgfIE8QMB84TxxPDE8ITyhMH xwzbD8sMEAUMBcIMwgYH1RPKE8UTwxMT0RMH2wwGEAYQBhACBQwFDAUMBgwHBgfWE8sTxRPDExPu EwYMBhAGEAIGDAYMwwYH1xPLE8YTwxMT8BPKBgfYE8wTxhPDExP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPH E8MTwhMMAAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD/ /wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8A AAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A //8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAA AP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA /wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCk gICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vw oKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw //vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzA psrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDA wNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICA wMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACA AICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACA gACA//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP////// --0__=KiVjAFoiT6BhhvinhA77CMTB2qPbiTo9qnRd2gn1423cE9WeTZ9xv7Tn-- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 05:51:42 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA22866 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 05:51:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from indosuez.com ([195.115.40.229]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA22861 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 05:51:34 -0400 (EDT) From: boyd.roberts@ca-indosuez.com Received: from SNPAR12. (mailer@fw-local [192.168.192.6]) by indosuez.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA13825 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 11:48:54 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by SNPAR12.(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) id 41256920.003BFD88 ; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 11:55:15 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: BANQUE INDOSUEZ To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <41256920.003BFD64.00@SNPAR12.> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 11:52:33 +0200 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9f._:_Re:_[9fans]_mothra?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; Boundary="0__=ADjXjwRDUHiEhQLB5fQqjFSP02mDJ0IIM7tsL3jS6iPnuxvFOogsiObo" Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu --0__=ADjXjwRDUHiEhQLB5fQqjFSP02mDJ0IIM7tsL3jS6iPnuxvFOogsiObo Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable surely no one would be that stupid. the word 'crock' springs to mind... =20 (Embedded =20 image moved "Douglas A. Gwyn" <gwyn@arl.army.mil> =20 to file: 18/07/2000 10:25 =20 pic19491.pcx) =20 =20 Veuillez r=E9pondre =E0 9fans@cse.psu.edu Pour: 9fans@cse.psu.edu cc: (ccc: Boyd ROBERTS/EST/DOSI/BANQUE_INDOSUEZ/FR) Objet: Re: [9fans] mothra = --0__=ADjXjwRDUHiEhQLB5fQqjFSP02mDJ0IIM7tsL3jS6iPnuxvFOogsiObo Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Surely somebody must be trying to port Mozilla to Plan 9? --0__=ADjXjwRDUHiEhQLB5fQqjFSP02mDJ0IIM7tsL3jS6iPnuxvFOogsiObo Content-type: application/octet-stream; name="pic19491.pcx" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pic19491.pcx" Content-transfer-encoding: base64 CgUBCAAAAABoACwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAABaQABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPH E8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sT 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--0__=ADjXjwRDUHiEhQLB5fQqjFSP02mDJ0IIM7tsL3jS6iPnuxvFOogsiObo-- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 06:44:16 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA23557 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 06:44:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ldap2.sz.js.cn ([202.102.14.148]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA23546 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 06:44:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nova ([202.111.67.189]) by ldap2.sz.js.cn (Netscape Messaging Server 4.05) with SMTP id FXW32A03.30D; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 18:42:10 +0800 Message-ID: <009001bff0a5$58aa7760$bd436fca@nova> From: "Gu Qin" <j8676906@public1.sz.js.cn> To: <9trouble@plan9.bell-labs.com> Cc: <sean@plan9.bell-labs.com>, <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com>, <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] installation for Trident video card 9680 chipset Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 18:45:51 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: 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9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 12:01:52 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 10:48:38 GMT From: Wladimir Mutel <mwg@alkar.net> Message-ID: <8l1bpt$2ekv$1@pandora.alkar.net> Organization: Alkar-Teleport News server Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r References: <10007170956.ZM905012@marvin>, <20000718105838.R2260@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] mothra Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by cse.psu.edu id HAA24087 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> wrote: > On Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 08:25:22AM +0000, Douglas A. Gwyn wrote: >> >> Surely somebody must be trying to port Mozilla to Plan 9? > Hopefully not. Maybe Opera, but does one really need Netscape's > near-operating system effort just to present a few pictures? Gecko rendering engine is small and almost suitable for embedding, they said. Near-OSness of Mozilla5/Netscape6 is just a result of poor decomposition. But it seems 'Gecko' itself could be adopted under Plan9. To be something like 'page' but for viewing html. -- mwg@alkar.net, 340044, 7442333, 7786458 - From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 07:34:49 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA24415 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 07:34:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from vivido.hci-net ([212.240.227.6]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA24411 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 07:34:41 -0400 (EDT) From: forsyth@vitanuova.com Message-Id: <200007181134.HAA24411@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] AUTH, FS, etc. Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 12:35:03 0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >> the prompt times out in 15 seconds and accepts the default. > >I don't believe you, but I'll try anyway. But before I do, let me argue i was referring to the third edition. > bootargs=il!144.32.112.69 -g 144.32.112.75 ether /net/ether0 144.32.112.70 255.255.254.0 i've also just realised that i changed something to make that work. you might find that the file server address isn't set by the il!... From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 07:38:08 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA24564 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 07:38:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA24558 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 07:37:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id NAA02890 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:37:40 +0200 (SAST) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:37:39 +0200 From: Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mothra Message-ID: <20000718133739.T2260@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <10007170956.ZM905012@marvin>, <20000718105838.R2260@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <8l1bpt$2ekv$1@pandora.alkar.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <8l1bpt$2ekv$1@pandora.alkar.net>; from Wladimir Mutel on Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 10:48:38AM +0000 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 10:48:38AM +0000, Wladimir Mutel wrote: > > Gecko rendering engine is small and almost suitable for embedding, > they said. Near-OSness of Mozilla5/Netscape6 is just a result of > poor decomposition. But it seems 'Gecko' itself could be adopted > under Plan9. To be something like 'page' but for viewing html. > I've been wondering about rendering engines across the board: a lot of Linux's appeal lies with the availability of games, and I see little reason, with Tom Duff and Rob Pike's experience and skills (talents, really) why Plan 9 could not provide similar tools. Of course, my personal wish list is more or less infinite :-) Is a URL for gecko readily available? ++L From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 07:51:14 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA24941 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 07:51:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA24936 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 07:51:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id NAA02907 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:50:57 +0200 (SAST) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:50:56 +0200 From: Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] AUTH, FS, etc. Message-ID: <20000718135055.U2260@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200007181134.HAA24411@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <200007181134.HAA24411@cse.psu.edu>; from forsyth@vitanuova.com on Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 12:35:03PM +0000 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 12:35:03PM +0000, forsyth@vitanuova.com wrote: > > >> the prompt times out in 15 seconds and accepts the default. > > > >I don't believe you, but I'll try anyway. But before I do, let me argue > > i was referring to the third edition. > I did my faithful bit and got the result I expected :-) Now I have to decide whether to toss the 2ed CPU server, update its boot procedure so I can select (via TFTP) one of 2ed or 3ed CPU kernels (that would mean making sure either kernel inherits the essential plan9.ini entries) or stick to 2ed and manual startup for a while longer. > > bootargs=il!144.32.112.69 -g 144.32.112.75 ether /net/ether0 144.32.112.70 255.255.254.0 > > i've also just realised that i changed something to make that work. > you might find that the file server address isn't set by the il!... That's awful neat, although it smacks of taking most of the functionality out of the loader and placing it in plan9.ini - nothing wrong with that in my book. In fact, I really wish one could draw a neat border between loader and kernel and stop all the duplication that keeps occurring, with novel approaches ever other day, on each operating system and often every other release, too. My dream is a pull down menu of OSes to choose from, with emulations for all the others (Windows excluded :-) built in. The OS to end all OSes? :-) Or just a boot shell? :-) :-) :-) ++L From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 08:11:12 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA25685 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 08:11:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from vivido.hci-net ([212.240.227.6]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA25678 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 08:10:59 -0400 (EDT) From: forsyth@vitanuova.com Message-Id: <200007181210.IAA25678@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] AUTH, FS, etc. Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:11:11 0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >>That's awful neat, although it smacks of taking most of the functionality >>out of the loader and placing it in plan9.ini - nothing wrong with that nearly all of that was in the original source. it's mainly useful on networks such as most of mine where a plan 9 cpu server provides dhcp for the network but must configure its network interface somehow, and PCs haven't got a standard way of putting parameters in NVRAM (when they've got NVRAM). the arguments are passed to /sys/src/9/boot and the loader doesn't do much more than preserve them for /boot. i added two lines to bootip.c to set the file server address. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 08:38:52 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA26290 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 08:38:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from indosuez.com ([195.115.40.229]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA26285 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 08:38:41 -0400 (EDT) From: boyd.roberts@ca-indosuez.com Received: from SNPAR12. (mailer@fw-local [192.168.192.6]) by indosuez.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA17642 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:36:09 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by SNPAR12.(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) id 41256920.004B4C2F ; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:42:27 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: BANQUE INDOSUEZ To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <41256920.004B4B16.00@SNPAR12.> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:39:42 +0200 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9f._:_Re:_[9fans]_AUTH,_FS,_etc.?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu i finally got plan 9 up on a machine and i want to build a kernel / boot loader that looks for the nvram on c: i think i found the right code fragment, but i'm a little confused about where in the boot process this comes into play (i see the boot code get transmogrified into a library, but i can't work out out what it's loaded with). i want to do this because it looks on the floppy for the nvram and that dies because my sony vaio's floppy is hooked up via usb. now, once i get it on coma.psycho-basket-case.org [my vaio] i'll get some real work done :) From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 08:48:52 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA26581 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 08:48:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA26571 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 08:48:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007181248.IAA26571@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mothra From: "rob pike" <rob@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 08:48:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > Surely somebody must be trying to port Mozilla to Plan 9? While that would be better than no browser at all, Mozilla is just the sort of stand-alone monolith that we're trying to argue against. And of course, everyone else in the world is trying to turn their system into a giant web browser. I'd rather see web access be one aspect of a system in which the pieces work in concert. -rob From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 08:50:09 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA26679 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 08:50:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA26660 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 08:49:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007181249.IAA26660@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mothra From: "rob pike" <rob@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 08:49:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > Hopefully not. Maybe Opera, but does one really need Netscape's > near-operating system effort just to present a few pictures? Opera is indeed a better idea. I tried to engage them about doing a port to Plan 9 but didn't even receive the courtesy of a reply. -rob From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 08:51:41 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA26790 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 08:51:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA26781 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 08:51:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007181251.IAA26781@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mothra From: "rob pike" <rob@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 08:51:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > I have a vague feeling that this can be mapped onto a filesystem, or am > I dreaming? It has to be done very very carefully because URLs are not a naming system. C.f. the discussion earlier on this topic, I argue for a model more like /net than ftpfs. We've started explorations in that direction, but it's too early to tell if we'll get anywhere useful. -rob From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 09:00:16 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA27173 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:00:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA27169 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:00:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13EWmC-0007L7-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:47:08 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 12:46:15 GMT From: Wladimir Mutel <mwg@alkar.net> Message-ID: <8l1jd6$1mc0$1@pandora.alkar.net> Organization: Alkar-Teleport News server Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r References: <10007170956.ZM905012@marvin>, <20000718133739.T2260@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] mothra Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by cse.psu.edu id JAA27170 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> wrote: >> Gecko rendering engine is small and almost suitable for embedding, > Is a URL for gecko readily available? http://www.mozilla.org/ - get the source It should be in Mozilla source, I guess. -- mwg@alkar.net, 340044, 7442333, 7786458 - From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 09:16:09 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA27625 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:16:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA27621; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:16:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007181316.JAA27621@cse.psu.edu> From: Sape Mullender <sape@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:15:48 -0400 To: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mothra MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Rob writes: > I'd rather see web access be one aspect of a system in > which the pieces work in concert. Isn't that what caused Microsoft some trouble? Sape From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 09:17:06 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA27709 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:17:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from indosuez.com ([195.115.40.229]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA27701 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:16:55 -0400 (EDT) From: boyd.roberts@ca-indosuez.com Received: from SNPAR12. (mailer@fw-local [192.168.192.6]) by indosuez.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA18780 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:14:35 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by SNPAR12.(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) id 41256920.004ED190 ; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:20:54 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: BANQUE INDOSUEZ To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <41256920.004ED096.00@SNPAR12.> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:18:08 +0200 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9f._:_Re:_[9fans]_mothra?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; Boundary="0__=4KfayGXxfZnrW2c2HQrh1RmEscE1XIkwwKCLufEUSElGVO17dB0iI3tf" Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu --0__=4KfayGXxfZnrW2c2HQrh1RmEscE1XIkwwKCLufEUSElGVO17dB0iI3tf Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable mozilla? have you tried to use version 6 on '98? now, would you port it? nuh. =20 (Embedded =20 image moved Wladimir Mutel <mwg@alkar.net> =20 to file: 18/07/2000 14:46 =20 pic30578.pcx) =20 =20 Veuillez r=E9pondre =E0 9fans@cse.psu.edu Pour: 9fans@cse.psu.edu cc: (ccc: Boyd ROBERTS/EST/DOSI/BANQUE_INDOSUEZ/FR) Objet: Re: [9fans] mothra = --0__=4KfayGXxfZnrW2c2HQrh1RmEscE1XIkwwKCLufEUSElGVO17dB0iI3tf Content-type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> wrote: >> Gecko rendering engine is small and almost suitable for embedding,= > Is a URL for gecko readily available? http://www.mozilla.org/ - get the source It should be in Mozilla source, I guess. -- mwg@alkar.net, 340044, 7442333, 7786458 - =F7=CC=C1=C4=C9=CD=C9=D2 =ED=D5= =D4=C5=CC=D8 = --0__=4KfayGXxfZnrW2c2HQrh1RmEscE1XIkwwKCLufEUSElGVO17dB0iI3tf Content-type: application/octet-stream; name="pic30578.pcx" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pic30578.pcx" Content-transfer-encoding: base64 CgUBCAAAAABoACwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAABaQABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPH E8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sT zRPHE8MTwhPwEwzIBgzYE8wTxhPDE8IT7hPOBtcTzBPGE8MTE+wTwgbCBwbCEgbCEgbCEsUG1hPL E8YTwxMT6hMMwgYHwgLCAwISwgfEEsMCwwbVE8sTxRPDExPpE8MGAwcCBwMCwhLDB8ISwgISwgLD BtUTyhPFE8MTE+gTwgIHA8ICEw4DDgLDE8USwwLCEMIG1BPKE8UTwxMT5xMCAwcDAg4TDgITwgIS D8ISD8ISBRICEcICwwbUE8oTxRPCExPmEwYCBwMCDgIOwgLDExITEhPCEg8GxgLDBtMMDAfJE8QT whMT5hMGwwITBgMCDhLFEw8SE8ISBgIDwhIDEsMGB9MDxwwHxRPDExPlEwYHAhESAg8CwhMPwhMP xBMPxRIQwgIDAgMCBtMDxwPEDAfDE8IT4RMHwwzCBgLCEhMCDxLIE8MSD8MSwwIQAwIDBgfSDMkD wgPCDAfCExPbEwfGDMIDDAIHERITEhMSwxMPwxMPwxPDEgIDAgMCwwMCBgzREwfHDMYDDMITE9YT B8UMyAMGB8ICBhLDAsYTEhMSExIPwhIHAgcCAwUQAgYRBgfSE8UTB8QMwgMMwhMT0hMHxAzLA8IM BsISDxESExITAw4DxBMSExITwxICBwPCAsMDDMIGB9ITyRMHwwzCExPPEwfDDMkDxQwHwhMGBxIT AhECEwMOAg7DExITDxMPwxIDAgMCBwMCDAYRBgfSE8kTwhPCDMITE8wTB8MMxwPEDMIHxxMGxBLD Ag4DDgIGwg/IEgIDwgIDAgwCEMIGB9ITyRMHDAcMwhMTyhMHwgzGA8MMwgfMEwYHwhLCEAIOAg4C DhDDAhIPxhIFAgXDAgUCEQYH0hPHEwfCDAcPDMITE8gTB8IMxQPDDAfQEwbDEhDEAhAOEA4QwgLG EgcSBhIGBcMCBcIGB9ATB8UMEwfCDA8HDwwHwhMTxhMHwgzEA8MMB9MTBgfCEhADEMICDhAOEMIC EQIDxxIGBwbCAgUCEQYHyxMHxAwHwhMHEwzCEwcPBw8MB8MTE8UTBwzEA8IMB9YTBsQSEAMCA8UC EQIDAgPDEgcSBgfCBgUQAhDCBgfGEwfEDAfGE8INEwzCEw8HwgwHwxPCE8QTBwzDA8IMB9gTBgfE EhACEMYCEQIDAsQSBhLDBsICEALCBgfCEwfDDAfKEwfCDRMHwhPCDAfEE8ITE8MTBwzCA8IMB9oT DBIHwxLDDBEDxQIDAgPDEgYSBgfCBgIQAhAGDAfCEwzDE8MHyRMHwhPCBxMHxRPDExPDEwzCAwwH 3RMGxxICEQPDAgMCA8MSBhIGBwYMBhACEAIGDMMTDBPCB8YTwwfHEwfGE8MTwhPDEwwDDAfeEwYH xxICEQPDAgMCwhIGEgYHBgwGEAIQAsIGB8MTDMYTwwfKEwzGE8MTwhPDE8IMB98TDBLCB8USAgMR xAISB8ISBgcGDAYQBhAGEAYMB8MMB8kTwwfHEwzGE8MTwhPDEwwPwgzfEwYSB8ISB8ISAhECAwID EgcSBwYHBgwGEAYQxgzDD8IHxRPDB8kTBwzGE8MTwhPDEwzDD8QM3BPCBhIGwxIGAhECAwIHBgcG yAzJDxMHzRMHwwwHxxPDE8ITwxMHDMYPxwwH1BMGEgYSBhLLDM4PwwwTDMcTwgfEDAfJE8QTwhMT xBMHwgzLD9sM0w/GDAfDEwzDEwfEDAfLE8YTwxMTxhMHxAztD8gMBgfIE8QMB84TxxPDE8ITyhMH xwzbD8sMEAUMBcIMwgYH1RPKE8UTwxMT0RMH2wwGEAYQBhACBQwFDAUMBgwHBgfWE8sTxRPDExPu EwYMBhAGEAIGDAYMwwYH1xPLE8YTwxMT8BPKBgfYE8wTxhPDExP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPH E8MTwhMMAAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD/ /wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8A AAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A //8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAA AP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA /wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCk gICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vw oKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw //vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzA psrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDA wNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICA wMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACA AICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACA gACA//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP////// --0__=4KfayGXxfZnrW2c2HQrh1RmEscE1XIkwwKCLufEUSElGVO17dB0iI3tf-- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 09:19:27 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA27864 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:19:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA27855 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:19:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id PAA02993 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:19:09 +0200 (SAST) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:19:05 +0200 From: Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mothra Message-ID: <20000718151905.V2260@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200007181251.IAA26781@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <200007181251.IAA26781@cse.psu.edu>; from rob pike on Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 08:51:26AM -0400 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 08:51:26AM -0400, rob pike wrote: > > > I have a vague feeling that this can be mapped onto a filesystem, or am > > I dreaming? > > It has to be done very very carefully because URLs are not a naming > system. C.f. the discussion earlier on this topic, I argue for a model > more like /net than ftpfs. We've started explorations in that direction, > but it's too early to tell if we'll get anywhere useful. > Accepted that URIs are an abomination :-) but consider "html2ps", misguided Perl script that it is. Within its own limits, it is quite capable. If one draws the line at locally available information for the presentation (the rendering engine), the actual information retrieval may just have to be less canonical. Treating the two problems as one is likely to lead to desperation, but perhaps by attempting to decouple them, they may become more tractable. You already have a perfectly good uget/hget, which I thought would make a fine replacement for the DHCP client, anyway - why have a plethora of protocols to retrieve an arbitrary set of key=value entries? Why not use HTTP? But ignoring that sidetracking, I think a rendering tool that relies on hget for the data input and something similarly simple for form filling purposes, ought to be within human abilities. Keep in mind that I, at least, believe that the web browser is quite a versatile tool, and it is hard to imagine a computing resource of any value that does not include such a tool. In fact, imagine having to live without it for any length of time at this point. That said, perhaps more of us should approach Opera and request a port. I am surprised they did not respond, perhaps you forgot to highlight quite who you were? A bit like David Korn and the famed Microsoft press release of their Windows tools for Unix? I'll try and do some needling, the Opera people seem to have completed their port to BeOS and whatever else, although not to Linux, unless I've missed their annoucement, they may have resources to spare. I must say I respect their persistence in the face of enormous competitive pressure. ++L From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 09:22:35 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA28059 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:22:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from gsyc.escet.urjc.es (root@gsyc.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.45]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA28050 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:22:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (IDENT:root@nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by gsyc.escet.urjc.es (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA12720 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:22:20 +0200 Received: (from nemo@localhost) by nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA01528; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:34:40 +0100 From: "Fco. J. Ballesteros" <nemo@gsyc.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14708.27392.28450.866964@nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:34:40 +0100 (WEST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Auth & cron In-Reply-To: <200007181210.IAA25678@cse.psu.edu> References: <200007181210.IAA25678@cse.psu.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under Emacs 20.5.1 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Regarding the discussion before about auth & cron, what about using a cpu server with a cron process running per user w/ cron entries? What's wrong w/ this approach? Perhaps I'm missing something. -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html mail /\ - against microsoft attachments From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 09:37:37 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA28711 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:37:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA28707 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:37:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007181337.JAA28707@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mothra From: "rob pike" <rob@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:37:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > > I'd rather see web access be one aspect of a system in > > which the pieces work in concert. > Isn't that what caused Microsoft some trouble? No. -rob From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 09:41:24 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA28858 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:41:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from indosuez.com ([195.115.40.229]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA28851 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:41:06 -0400 (EDT) From: boyd.roberts@ca-indosuez.com Received: from SNPAR12. (mailer@fw-local [192.168.192.6]) by indosuez.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA19535 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:38:43 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by SNPAR12.(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) id 41256920.0050821D ; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:39:21 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: BANQUE INDOSUEZ To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <41256920.005072A4.00@SNPAR12.> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:35:55 +0200 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9f._:_Re:_[9fans]_mothra?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu given i wrote a DLL (to my shame) once that talked SOCKS4 transparently and sat on top of winsock (ie. it looked like winsock) i saw what socket calls netscape made. i was less than impressed. i just had a look at the winsock code in mozilla. yep, as i expected -- clueless bozos. check this: BOOL IsWinsockLoaded (int sp) { if (hWinsock == NULL) { WSADATA wsaData; WSAStartup(0x0101, &wsaData); } // Quick macro to tell if the winsock has actually loaded for a particular // function. // Debug version is a little more strict to make sure you get the names right. #ifdef DEBUG return hWinsock != NULL && spArray[(int)(sp)] != NULL; #else // A little faster return hWinsock != NULL; #endif } this _abortion_ is called before _every_ winsock call. duh... load it on startup and chuck away a swath of redundant, inefficient code; bugs waiting to happen. and THIS: WSAStartup(0x0101, &wsaData); a hard wired _constant_? the prosecution rests. i even saw a telnet that looped on write() after making an async connect(). duh, select() anyone? From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 10:34:26 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA00928 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 10:34:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA00924 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 10:34:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007181434.KAA00924@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Why rio instead of 8 1/2 From: "rob pike" <rob@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 10:34:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-boksxlzmvceyogeerziahtendh" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-boksxlzmvceyogeerziahtendh Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1) The processes are running in the same, shared memory created by rfork(RFMEM). 2) The wctl named pipe makes it easy for programs like /bin/window to find the window system even if they are not in its name space. this is an issue for plumber commands. 3) This topic is discussed in the Acme paper. There is a data type called XFid that is used to manage a pool of threads in the main proc to handle requests on behalf of clients of the file system process. The advantage of this design is that anything that needs to access global data can do much less interlocking if it's a thread in the main proc rather than a separate proc. Threads are coroutines that schedule cleanly; procs are true process scheduled at arbitrary points by the operating system. -rob --upas-boksxlzmvceyogeerziahtendh Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Jul 18 01:10:43 EDT 2000 Received: from cse.psu.edu ([130.203.3.50]) by plan9; Tue Jul 18 01:10:42 EDT 2000 Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA17048; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 00:55:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by claven.cse.psu.edu (bulk_mailer v1.5); Tue, 18 Jul 2000 00:55:38 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA17005 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 00:55:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from trachyte.chigaku6.co.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.91.52]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA17001 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 00:55:28 -0400 (EDT) From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Message-Id: <200007180455.AAA17001@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Why rio instead of 8 1/2 Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:56:02 0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-lwtvadrrpgkwqocyjzxjhnsowv" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-lwtvadrrpgkwqocyjzxjhnsowv Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Rob! Now, I got that it shows the state of channel communication. I got another difficulty to understand how the rio works. Of course it comes from my personal inablility to read the sources, however, I suppose it's not so easy to some of Plan 9 users like me, either. 1) all the seven procs have the same memory size, and grows coincidently alltogether. Why? Only the process of threadmain() can grow, can't it? 2) proc wctlproc does only check "New" command, and writectl() is called from xfidwrite() which is checked by normal filsyproc(). So, why /srv/riowctl.$user.$pid is posted? The "New" command can also be checked from the normal filsysproc(), can't it? 3) filsysproc() calls file operation functions in fsys.c, and many of those functions call coresponding xfidxxx functions through channel x->c. Why these two processes are separated? Or what is the merrit to use channel for this purpose, but not just function call by pointer alone? Kenji --upas-lwtvadrrpgkwqocyjzxjhnsowv Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.103.2]) by granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19626 for <okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 08:37:06 +0900 Received: from cse.psu.edu (majordom@claven.cse.psu.edu [130.203.3.50]) by elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (8.9.3/3.7W-00051217) with ESMTP id IAA28075; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 08:37:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA14846; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 19:35:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by claven.cse.psu.edu (bulk_mailer v1.5); Thu, 13 Jul 2000 19:35:03 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA14786 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 19:34:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA14780 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 19:34:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007132334.TAA14780@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Why rio instead of 8 1/2 From: "rob pike" <rob@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 19:34:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Then, No. (2) and (5) procs are marked as rendez. I looked into sources, however, I failed to understand where the No.2 and 5 processes are called rendezvous. I know I'm missing something... They aren't called rendezvous, they're in the rendezvous state. That field of the ps output is the state of the process, typically a system call name (such as Wait, Read, etc.) or a process state (Fault, Rendez, etc.) -rob --upas-lwtvadrrpgkwqocyjzxjhnsowv-- --upas-boksxlzmvceyogeerziahtendh-- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 10:41:54 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA01183 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 10:41:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from indosuez.com ([195.115.40.229]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA01169 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 10:41:18 -0400 (EDT) From: boyd.roberts@ca-indosuez.com Received: from SNPAR12. (mailer@fw-local [192.168.192.6]) by indosuez.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA20916 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 16:38:40 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by SNPAR12.(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) id 41256920.005681EB ; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 16:44:53 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: BANQUE INDOSUEZ To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <41256920.0056816E.00@SNPAR12.> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 16:42:10 +0200 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9f._:_[9fans]_Auth_&_cron?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; Boundary="0__=0WP3ZB0vncyABNQIn8sd5Naf9JRn4AG2eZcbbggxRj6M32ujk44kMhAj" Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu --0__=0WP3ZB0vncyABNQIn8sd5Naf9JRn4AG2eZcbbggxRj6M32ujk44kMhAj Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable but how do you auth the user? there is no setuid. you prove who you are to the auth server by typing a password that is kept locally and used to authenticate yourself. maybe things have changed a bit since the 1st release, but my guess is that the auth design is more or less the same. so you gotta enter some data to auth yourself. this data must _never_ cross the wire. so if you say server x is my preferred cron server, just how is server x's cron going to get the auth data to allow the cron to 'run as you'? 'running as you' is not a matter of uid's, it's a matter of proving that you are you with the auth data you've been giv= en. wholesale shipping around private keys from auth to 'trusted' cpu servers to allow impersonation is just an accident waiting to happen. you bust the cpu server, you bust the auth server. and all that stuff is flying around on the wire. no, no and no. god, we may as well go back to rsh/rlogin -- yes, that hideous mess. =20 (Embedded =20 image moved "Fco. J. Ballesteros" <nemo@gsyc.escet.urjc.es> =20 to file: 18/07/2000 16:34 =20 pic32656.pcx) =20 =20 Veuillez r=E9pondre =E0 9fans@cse.psu.edu Pour: 9fans@cse.psu.edu cc: (ccc: Boyd ROBERTS/EST/DOSI/BANQUE_INDOSUEZ/FR) Objet: [9fans] Auth & cron = --0__=0WP3ZB0vncyABNQIn8sd5Naf9JRn4AG2eZcbbggxRj6M32ujk44kMhAj Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Regarding the discussion before about auth & cron, what about using a cpu server with a cron process running per user w/ cron entries? What's wrong w/ this approach? Perhaps I'm missing something. -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html mail /\ - against microsoft attachments --0__=0WP3ZB0vncyABNQIn8sd5Naf9JRn4AG2eZcbbggxRj6M32ujk44kMhAj Content-type: application/octet-stream; name="pic32656.pcx" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pic32656.pcx" Content-transfer-encoding: base64 CgUBCAAAAABoACwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAABaQABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPH E8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sT zRPHE8MTwhPwEwzIBgzYE8wTxhPDE8IT7hPOBtcTzBPGE8MTE+wTwgbCBwbCEgbCEgbCEsUG1hPL E8YTwxMT6hMMwgYHwgLCAwISwgfEEsMCwwbVE8sTxRPDExPpE8MGAwcCBwMCwhLDB8ISwgISwgLD BtUTyhPFE8MTE+gTwgIHA8ICEw4DDgLDE8USwwLCEMIG1BPKE8UTwxMT5xMCAwcDAg4TDgITwgIS D8ISD8ISBRICEcICwwbUE8oTxRPCExPmEwYCBwMCDgIOwgLDExITEhPCEg8GxgLDBtMMDAfJE8QT whMT5hMGwwITBgMCDhLFEw8SE8ISBgIDwhIDEsMGB9MDxwwHxRPDExPlEwYHAhESAg8CwhMPwhMP xBMPxRIQwgIDAgMCBtMDxwPEDAfDE8IT4RMHwwzCBgLCEhMCDxLIE8MSD8MSwwIQAwIDBgfSDMkD wgPCDAfCExPbEwfGDMIDDAIHERITEhMSwxMPwxMPwxPDEgIDAgMCwwMCBgzREwfHDMYDDMITE9YT B8UMyAMGB8ICBhLDAsYTEhMSExIPwhIHAgcCAwUQAgYRBgfSE8UTB8QMwgMMwhMT0hMHxAzLA8IM BsISDxESExITAw4DxBMSExITwxICBwPCAsMDDMIGB9ITyRMHwwzCExPPEwfDDMkDxQwHwhMGBxIT AhECEwMOAg7DExITDxMPwxIDAgMCBwMCDAYRBgfSE8kTwhPCDMITE8wTB8MMxwPEDMIHxxMGxBLD Ag4DDgIGwg/IEgIDwgIDAgwCEMIGB9ITyRMHDAcMwhMTyhMHwgzGA8MMwgfMEwYHwhLCEAIOAg4C DhDDAhIPxhIFAgXDAgUCEQYH0hPHEwfCDAcPDMITE8gTB8IMxQPDDAfQEwbDEhDEAhAOEA4QwgLG EgcSBhIGBcMCBcIGB9ATB8UMEwfCDA8HDwwHwhMTxhMHwgzEA8MMB9MTBgfCEhADEMICDhAOEMIC EQIDxxIGBwbCAgUCEQYHyxMHxAwHwhMHEwzCEwcPBw8MB8MTE8UTBwzEA8IMB9YTBsQSEAMCA8UC EQIDAgPDEgcSBgfCBgUQAhDCBgfGEwfEDAfGE8INEwzCEw8HwgwHwxPCE8QTBwzDA8IMB9gTBgfE EhACEMYCEQIDAsQSBhLDBsICEALCBgfCEwfDDAfKEwfCDRMHwhPCDAfEE8ITE8MTBwzCA8IMB9oT DBIHwxLDDBEDxQIDAgPDEgYSBgfCBgIQAhAGDAfCEwzDE8MHyRMHwhPCBxMHxRPDExPDEwzCAwwH 3RMGxxICEQPDAgMCA8MSBhIGBwYMBhACEAIGDMMTDBPCB8YTwwfHEwfGE8MTwhPDEwwDDAfeEwYH xxICEQPDAgMCwhIGEgYHBgwGEAIQAsIGB8MTDMYTwwfKEwzGE8MTwhPDE8IMB98TDBLCB8USAgMR xAISB8ISBgcGDAYQBhAGEAYMB8MMB8kTwwfHEwzGE8MTwhPDEwwPwgzfEwYSB8ISB8ISAhECAwID EgcSBwYHBgwGEAYQxgzDD8IHxRPDB8kTBwzGE8MTwhPDEwzDD8QM3BPCBhIGwxIGAhECAwIHBgcG yAzJDxMHzRMHwwwHxxPDE8ITwxMHDMYPxwwH1BMGEgYSBhLLDM4PwwwTDMcTwgfEDAfJE8QTwhMT xBMHwgzLD9sM0w/GDAfDEwzDEwfEDAfLE8YTwxMTxhMHxAztD8gMBgfIE8QMB84TxxPDE8ITyhMH xwzbD8sMEAUMBcIMwgYH1RPKE8UTwxMT0RMH2wwGEAYQBhACBQwFDAUMBgwHBgfWE8sTxRPDExPu EwYMBhAGEAIGDAYMwwYH1xPLE8YTwxMT8BPKBgfYE8wTxhPDExP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPH E8MTwhMMAAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD/ /wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8A AAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A //8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAA AP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA /wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCk gICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vw oKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw //vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzA psrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDA wNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICA wMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACA AICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACA gACA//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP////// --0__=0WP3ZB0vncyABNQIn8sd5Naf9JRn4AG2eZcbbggxRj6M32ujk44kMhAj-- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 10:55:33 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA01589 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 10:55:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from gsyc.escet.urjc.es (root@gsyc.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.45]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA01584 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 10:55:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (IDENT:root@nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by gsyc.escet.urjc.es (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA13217 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 16:55:23 +0200 Received: (from nemo@localhost) by nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA01749; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 17:07:44 +0100 From: "Fco. J. Ballesteros" <nemo@gsyc.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14708.32976.222013.344094@nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 17:07:44 +0100 (WEST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9f._:_[9fans]_Auth_&_cron?= In-Reply-To: <41256920.0056816E.00@SNPAR12.> References: <41256920.0056816E.00@SNPAR12.> X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under Emacs 20.5.1 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >>>>> "boyd" == boyd roberts <boyd.roberts@ca-indosuez.com> writes: boyd> but how do you auth the user? there is no setuid. you Just like you are doing it now to run processes on the cpu server. But you'll keep your `cron' process running forever. The only bad point I see is that a cpu server reboot will drop your cron entries. boyd> so you gotta enter some data to auth yourself. this data boyd> must _never_ cross the wire. so if you say server x is my boyd> preferred cron server, just how is server x's cron going to boyd> get the auth data to allow the cron to 'run as you'? How are you doing that to run your process on your cpu sever? IMHO it can be done the same way. But, as I said, I may be missing something. -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html mail /\ - against microsoft attachments From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 11:19:14 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02370 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 11:19:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA02361 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 11:18:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20825; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 17:18:49 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from copernicus.cs.utwente.nl by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.8.8+Sun/csrelay-Sol1.4/RB) id RAA19944; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 17:18:49 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost by copernicus.cs.utwente.nl (8.8.8+Sun/SMI-SVR4) id RAA00977; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 17:18:48 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200007181518.RAA00977@copernicus.cs.utwente.nl> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, "Russ Cox" <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] dossrv: I/O error: dev 3 sector ..., read: 0, should be 4608 In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Jul 2000 17:03:35 -0400." <200007172103.RAA17759@smtp4.fas.harvard.edu> References: <200007172103.RAA17759@smtp4.fas.harvard.edu> From: Axel Belinfante <Axel.Belinfante@cs.utwente.nl> X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~<x[UoHs%Ei=QZA X-Url: http://www.cs.utwente.nl/~belinfan/ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 17:18:47 +0200 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > The first thing to do is see if the sector > numbers make any sense. First, > multiply them by 512 and see if they're > still 31-bit numbers. If not, you need > to change devio.c thusly: > > g% diff /n/dump/2000/0601/sys/src/cmd/dossrv/devio.c devio.c > 38c38 > < seek(xf->dev, xf->offset+addr*Sectorsize, 0); > --- > > seek(xf->dev, xf->offset+(vlong)addr*Sectorsize, 0); > 57c57 > < seek(xf->dev, xf->offset+addr*Sectorsize, 0); > --- > > seek(xf->dev, xf->offset+(vlong)addr*Sectorsize, 0); > g% Without first checking the sector numbers (sorry! :-) I immediately applied this change, with good success: it now seems to work ok. Thanks! Axel. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 11:25:44 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02648 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 11:25:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from indosuez.com ([195.115.40.229]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA02638 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 11:25:30 -0400 (EDT) From: boyd.roberts@ca-indosuez.com Received: from SNPAR12. (mailer@fw-local [192.168.192.6]) by indosuez.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA22072 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 17:22:58 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by SNPAR12.(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) id 41256920.005A941F ; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 17:29:21 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: BANQUE INDOSUEZ To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <41256920.005A93E2.00@SNPAR12.> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 17:26:33 +0200 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9f._:_R=E9f._:_[9fans]_Auth_&_cron?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; Boundary="0__=AEtCgMK5VQPXqbzJ5S9F1aiFONSLhH5H9Zay7AUz4XpsgVKGQDBcRQcG" Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu --0__=AEtCgMK5VQPXqbzJ5S9F1aiFONSLhH5H9Zay7AUz4XpsgVKGQDBcRQcG Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable you miss the point. you have to physically enter some data. this involves the data, a keyboard and your fingers. read the auth protocol docs. =20 (Embedded =20 image moved "Fco. J. Ballesteros" <nemo@gsyc.escet.urjc.es> =20 to file: 18/07/2000 18:07 =20 pic20955.pcx) =20 =20 Veuillez r=E9pondre =E0 9fans@cse.psu.edu Pour: 9fans@cse.psu.edu cc: (ccc: Boyd ROBERTS/EST/DOSI/BANQUE_INDOSUEZ/FR) Objet: R=E9f. : [9fans] Auth & cron = --0__=AEtCgMK5VQPXqbzJ5S9F1aiFONSLhH5H9Zay7AUz4XpsgVKGQDBcRQcG Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline >>>>> "boyd" == boyd roberts <boyd.roberts@ca-indosuez.com> writes: boyd> but how do you auth the user? there is no setuid. you Just like you are doing it now to run processes on the cpu server. But you'll keep your `cron' process running forever. The only bad point I see is that a cpu server reboot will drop your cron entries. boyd> so you gotta enter some data to auth yourself. this data boyd> must _never_ cross the wire. so if you say server x is my boyd> preferred cron server, just how is server x's cron going to boyd> get the auth data to allow the cron to 'run as you'? How are you doing that to run your process on your cpu sever? IMHO it can be done the same way. But, as I said, I may be missing something. -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html mail /\ - against microsoft attachments --0__=AEtCgMK5VQPXqbzJ5S9F1aiFONSLhH5H9Zay7AUz4XpsgVKGQDBcRQcG Content-type: application/octet-stream; name="pic20955.pcx" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pic20955.pcx" Content-transfer-encoding: base64 CgUBCAAAAABoACwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAABaQABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPH E8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sT zRPHE8MTwhPwEwzIBgzYE8wTxhPDE8IT7hPOBtcTzBPGE8MTE+wTwgbCBwbCEgbCEgbCEsUG1hPL E8YTwxMT6hMMwgYHwgLCAwISwgfEEsMCwwbVE8sTxRPDExPpE8MGAwcCBwMCwhLDB8ISwgISwgLD BtUTyhPFE8MTE+gTwgIHA8ICEw4DDgLDE8USwwLCEMIG1BPKE8UTwxMT5xMCAwcDAg4TDgITwgIS D8ISD8ISBRICEcICwwbUE8oTxRPCExPmEwYCBwMCDgIOwgLDExITEhPCEg8GxgLDBtMMDAfJE8QT whMT5hMGwwITBgMCDhLFEw8SE8ISBgIDwhIDEsMGB9MDxwwHxRPDExPlEwYHAhESAg8CwhMPwhMP xBMPxRIQwgIDAgMCBtMDxwPEDAfDE8IT4RMHwwzCBgLCEhMCDxLIE8MSD8MSwwIQAwIDBgfSDMkD wgPCDAfCExPbEwfGDMIDDAIHERITEhMSwxMPwxMPwxPDEgIDAgMCwwMCBgzREwfHDMYDDMITE9YT B8UMyAMGB8ICBhLDAsYTEhMSExIPwhIHAgcCAwUQAgYRBgfSE8UTB8QMwgMMwhMT0hMHxAzLA8IM BsISDxESExITAw4DxBMSExITwxICBwPCAsMDDMIGB9ITyRMHwwzCExPPEwfDDMkDxQwHwhMGBxIT AhECEwMOAg7DExITDxMPwxIDAgMCBwMCDAYRBgfSE8kTwhPCDMITE8wTB8MMxwPEDMIHxxMGxBLD Ag4DDgIGwg/IEgIDwgIDAgwCEMIGB9ITyRMHDAcMwhMTyhMHwgzGA8MMwgfMEwYHwhLCEAIOAg4C DhDDAhIPxhIFAgXDAgUCEQYH0hPHEwfCDAcPDMITE8gTB8IMxQPDDAfQEwbDEhDEAhAOEA4QwgLG EgcSBhIGBcMCBcIGB9ATB8UMEwfCDA8HDwwHwhMTxhMHwgzEA8MMB9MTBgfCEhADEMICDhAOEMIC EQIDxxIGBwbCAgUCEQYHyxMHxAwHwhMHEwzCEwcPBw8MB8MTE8UTBwzEA8IMB9YTBsQSEAMCA8UC EQIDAgPDEgcSBgfCBgUQAhDCBgfGEwfEDAfGE8INEwzCEw8HwgwHwxPCE8QTBwzDA8IMB9gTBgfE EhACEMYCEQIDAsQSBhLDBsICEALCBgfCEwfDDAfKEwfCDRMHwhPCDAfEE8ITE8MTBwzCA8IMB9oT DBIHwxLDDBEDxQIDAgPDEgYSBgfCBgIQAhAGDAfCEwzDE8MHyRMHwhPCBxMHxRPDExPDEwzCAwwH 3RMGxxICEQPDAgMCA8MSBhIGBwYMBhACEAIGDMMTDBPCB8YTwwfHEwfGE8MTwhPDEwwDDAfeEwYH xxICEQPDAgMCwhIGEgYHBgwGEAIQAsIGB8MTDMYTwwfKEwzGE8MTwhPDE8IMB98TDBLCB8USAgMR xAISB8ISBgcGDAYQBhAGEAYMB8MMB8kTwwfHEwzGE8MTwhPDEwwPwgzfEwYSB8ISB8ISAhECAwID EgcSBwYHBgwGEAYQxgzDD8IHxRPDB8kTBwzGE8MTwhPDEwzDD8QM3BPCBhIGwxIGAhECAwIHBgcG yAzJDxMHzRMHwwwHxxPDE8ITwxMHDMYPxwwH1BMGEgYSBhLLDM4PwwwTDMcTwgfEDAfJE8QTwhMT xBMHwgzLD9sM0w/GDAfDEwzDEwfEDAfLE8YTwxMTxhMHxAztD8gMBgfIE8QMB84TxxPDE8ITyhMH xwzbD8sMEAUMBcIMwgYH1RPKE8UTwxMT0RMH2wwGEAYQBhACBQwFDAUMBgwHBgfWE8sTxRPDExPu EwYMBhAGEAIGDAYMwwYH1xPLE8YTwxMT8BPKBgfYE8wTxhPDExP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPH E8MTwhMMAAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD/ /wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8A AAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A //8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAA AP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA /wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCk gICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vw oKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw //vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzA psrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDA wNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICA wMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACA AICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACA gACA//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP////// --0__=AEtCgMK5VQPXqbzJ5S9F1aiFONSLhH5H9Zay7AUz4XpsgVKGQDBcRQcG-- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 11:38:19 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA03135 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 11:38:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.89]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA03131 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 11:38:14 -0400 (EDT) From: miller@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk Received: from hamnavoe.demon.co.uk ([158.152.225.204]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 13EZRk-000ElS-0V for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 16:38:12 +0100 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 16:38:59 BST Subject: Re: [9fans] mothra Message-Id: <E13EZRk-000ElS-0V@anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu If anyone is nostalgic for mothra itself, I've just about finished adapting it (and the panel library, which I needed for my teletext browser) to the 3rd edition graphics model. Mothra may only be able to cope with a small subset of today's websites, but for that subset it's quick and effective. (I've borrowed from lynx the idea of displaying frames as a list of links, so that framed sites can be navigated without having to lay them out fully.) Because it ignores what it doesn't understand, mothra can often glean some useful content from a page where charon tries too hard and just draws a blank. And using mothra I don't have to worry about malicious scripts and cookies ... Anyone with a 2nd edition license can get a boddle from me. -- Richard Miller From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 11:58:31 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA03813 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 11:58:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from gsyc.escet.urjc.es (root@gsyc.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.45]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA03806 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 11:58:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (IDENT:root@nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by gsyc.escet.urjc.es (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id RAA13462 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 17:58:17 +0200 Received: (from nemo@localhost) by nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA01867; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 18:10:37 +0100 From: "Fco. J. Ballesteros" <nemo@gsyc.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14708.36749.28695.762166@nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 18:10:37 +0100 (WEST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9f._:_R=E9f._:_[9fans]_Auth_&_cron?= In-Reply-To: <41256920.005A93E2.00@SNPAR12.> References: <41256920.005A93E2.00@SNPAR12.> X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under Emacs 20.5.1 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >>>>> "boyd" == boyd roberts <boyd.roberts@ca-indosuez.com> writes: boyd> you miss the point. you have to physically enter some data. boyd> this involves the data, a keyboard and your fingers. read boyd> the auth protocol docs. Already read them; but let's re-read them.... done :-) As I thought, you authenticate (using your keyboard and your fingers;-) ) when you boot your terminal. But, after you got your terminal running, you can use cpu to run your `cron' process on a cpu server. If the cron process keeps on hanging around even after you reboot your terminal, it can maintain your cron entries. The cron process is already authenticated and should be able to spam new processes to run your cron entries. What I don't like is 1: rebooting your cpu server makes your cron die and forget your entries. (a workaround would be to check that it is running when you log in, and spawn a new cron otherwise; but that's not a fix). 2: one process per-user rather than one per site (although that may be ok). -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html mail /\ - against microsoft attachments From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 12:23:45 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA04591 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 12:23:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from indosuez.com ([195.115.40.229]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA04582 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 12:23:38 -0400 (EDT) From: boyd.roberts@ca-indosuez.com Received: from SNPAR12. (mailer@fw-local [192.168.192.6]) by indosuez.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA24883 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 18:21:04 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by SNPAR12.(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) id 41256920.005FE6AF ; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 18:27:29 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: BANQUE INDOSUEZ To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <41256920.005FE4BB.00@SNPAR12.> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 18:24:11 +0200 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9f._:_R=E9f._:_R=E9f._:_[9fans]_Auth_&_cron?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu What I don't like is 1: rebooting your cpu server makes your cron die and forget your entries. (a workaround would be to check that it is running when you log in, and spawn a new cron otherwise; but that's not a fix). yup, that's the _problem_. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 12:45:26 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA05269 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 12:45:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA05265 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 12:45:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13EaLC-0002Cu-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 17:35:30 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 16:25:43 GMT From: Holger Veit <veit@simi.gmd.de> Message-ID: <slrn8n90lt.95h.veit@simi.gmd.de> Organization: GMD, Sankt Augustin, Germany References: <200007181316.JAA27621@cse.psu.edu> Reply-To: holger.veit@gmd.de Subject: Re: [9fans] mothra Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:05:02 GMT, Sape Mullender <sape@plan9.bell-labs.com> wrote: >Rob writes: >> I'd rather see web access be one aspect of a system in >> which the pieces work in concert. > >Isn't that what caused Microsoft some trouble? Probably yes, but then mainly because they didn't/don't have a concept. You don't get a system if you throw together some arbitrary components that may or may not communicate. Holger -- Zur Signatur: http://www.detebe.org/3.14/ILOVEYOU-Signature-FAQ.html begin LOVE-LETTER-FOR-YOU.txt.vbs Wirf' diesen Schrott von Mailprogramm weg, der hier ein Virus vermutet! end From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 13:11:23 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06121 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:11:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from x.bell-labs.com (204.178.16.14.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.14]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA06117 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:11:16 -0400 (EDT) From: mike@x.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200007181711.NAA06117@cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] Microsoft Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:10:47 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu What got them in trouble was not integrating a browser into Windows per se, but the fact that they did that in order to extend their monopoly in OS's (Windows) into the browser market. Now if Plan 9 were running on 90% of the desktops in the world, perhaps we should be cautious about integrating web access into it. Somehow, I don't think this is a big concern right now! :-) From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 13:52:47 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA07422 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:52:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from dfw-smtpout1.email.verio.net (dfw-smtpout1.email.verio.net [129.250.36.41]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA07418 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:52:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [129.250.38.64] (helo=dfw-mmp4.email.verio.net) by dfw-smtpout1.email.verio.net with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #7) id 13EbXZ-0001Xw-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 17:52:21 +0000 Received: from shell3-adm.personal.verio.net ([161.58.1.85] helo=clark.net) by dfw-mmp4.email.verio.net with esmtp (Exim 3.15 #4) id 13EbXZ-0006k5-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 17:52:21 +0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: erik quanstrom <quanstro@clark.net> Subject: [9fans] Re: rc Message-Id: <E13EbXZ-0006k5-00@dfw-mmp4.email.verio.net> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 17:52:21 +0000 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > On Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 03:29:16AM -0700, Randolph Fritz wrote: > > > > On Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 12:21:58PM +0200, boyd.roberts@ca-indosuez.com wrote: > > > > > > used the unix rc for years; well written, solid as a rock. > > > > > > > I've switched, myself. I rewrote one script in rc and decided it was > > time. :) Now if only mk would become standard on Unix... > > > Amusingly, Linux came out originally with RC as its shell, and that led > me to the original Plan 9 papers, and from there to Plan 9. I presume > I'm the only one who got here _that_ route!? that's not my recollection. in 1992 i talked michael k johnson into letting me use his pre-1.0 linux box to port rc because -- as far as we could tell -- nobody'd done it. there were some signal problems with my port (the awk script that munched some system headers to generate a list of signals didn't work with linux's odd header structure). and this port never made it off michael's box. my memory's fading but i believe that bash and ash were installed on michael's box at the time. bash development preceeded rc development by about 18 months, as i recall. erik From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 14:12:07 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA08085 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:12:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from marge.cyber-dyne.com (root@marge.cyber-dyne.com [207.189.172.1]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA08079 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:11:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cyber-dyne.com (IDENT:root@rac0E.cyber-dyne.com [207.189.172.164]) by marge.cyber-dyne.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA02705 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 11:11:52 -0700 Received: (from randolph@localhost) by cyber-dyne.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA02447 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 11:11:51 -0700 Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 11:11:50 -0700 From: Randolph Fritz <randolph@cyber-dyne.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mothra Message-ID: <20000718111150.C2329@cyber-dyne.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <10007170956.ZM905012@marvin> <397385A3.6AD65F99@arl.army.mil> <20000718105838.R2260@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <20000718105838.R2260@cackle.proxima.alt.za>; from lucio@proxima.alt.za on Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 10:58:38AM +0200 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 10:58:38AM +0200, Lucio De Re wrote: > On Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 08:25:22AM +0000, Douglas A. Gwyn wrote: > > > > Surely somebody must be trying to port Mozilla to Plan 9? > > Hopefully not. Maybe Opera, but does one really need Netscape's > near-operating system effort just to present a few pictures? > Perhaps the way to approach it is to make Mozilla into a Plan 9 terminal. :) (Only joking. I think.) -- Randolph Fritz Eugene, Oregon, USA From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 14:26:09 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA08558 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:26:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from vivido.hci-net ([212.240.227.6]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA08546 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:26:00 -0400 (EDT) From: forsyth@vitanuova.com Message-Id: <200007181826.OAA08546@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mothra Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 19:26:22 0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > Hopefully not. Maybe Opera, but does one really need Netscape's > near-operating system effort just to present a few pictures? > >>Perhaps the way to approach it is to make Mozilla into a Plan 9 >>terminal. :) (Only joking. I think.) Possibly. Chris Locke wrote an Inferno plug-in for Internet Explorer that lets you run a full Inferno session (including window manager, charon and Acme) in an explorer page. Inferno is running in the page, it's not just a terminal, although it can obviously then mount remote services. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 14:33:35 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA08865 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:33:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from smtp4.fas.harvard.edu (root@smtp4.fas.harvard.edu [140.247.30.84]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA08859 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:33:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from poodle-pc.deas.harvard.edu (poodle-pc.deas.harvard.edu [140.247.51.128]) by smtp4.fas.harvard.edu with SMTP id OAA04820; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:33:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007181833.OAA04820@smtp4.fas.harvard.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mothra From: "Russ Cox" <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:33:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu i agree with skip >From cse.psu.edu!owner-9fans Wed Apr 8 00:45:34 EDT 1998 From: "Fariborz "Skip" Tavakkolian" <prognet.com!skipt> Subject: Re: [9fans] netscape Isn't porting Netscape to Plan9 one of the signs of Armageddon? From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 14:39:07 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA09129 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:39:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ohio.river.org (river.org [209.24.233.15]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA09123 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:38:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from ru@localhost) by ohio.river.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA02161; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 11:38:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 11:38:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200007181838.LAA02161@ohio.river.org> From: Richard <ru@ohio.river.org> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Re: interaction In-Reply-To: <200007180807.EAA19981@cse.psu.edu> References: <200007180807.EAA19981@cse.psu.edu> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk writes: > Richard> do you 2 use it as your interactive shell, too, or just > Richard> for scripts? > in acme and rio i might have a window open on a file of >common sequences for editing, snarfing and sending into shells and other >commands. when developing in acme, i have the word mk typed in the tag >of the directory window so that one click of a button will execute it >and pop the diagnostics into another window for use by button 3. i can >have different commands for different windows (adiff /one/thing >/another/thing is a common one at the moment). furthermore, in all but >the function case i can see what i need and get what i see, and they all >handle multiline commands sensibly, which i've never found true for most >`richard the third' interfaces. those suggestions are specific to Plan 9 whereas I was asking the 2 posters about their style of usage of rc on *Unix*. it is always good, though, to recieve confirmation that experienced Plan 9 users actually follow the general style described in the Acme and Plumber papers. and "see what I need and get what I see" is an apt description of that style. per analogy with WYSIWYG, maybe we should shorten it to SWYNAGWYS. >in short, it's worth experimenting with the things the system gives you. definitely. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 15:02:26 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA09861 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:02:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ocswall2.fda.gov ([198.77.181.8]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA09850 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:02:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sch1.nctr.fda.gov by ocswall2.fda.gov via smtpd (for claven.cse.psu.edu [130.203.3.50]) with SMTP; 18 Jul 2000 19:01:40 UT Received: from localhost (sharris@localhost) by sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA30466 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:03:25 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV: sharris owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:03:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Stephen Harris <sharris@nctr.fda.gov> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Gecko based web browser Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10007181354080.30448-100000@sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Someone was asking about Gecko, which is the layout/rendering engine used by Mozilla. There is a small, working web browser thinly built around Gecko alone, without the Mozilla baggage. It's called Galeon and is starting to become popular. It's at http://galeon.sourceforge.net Supposedly supports all the latest web standards. It's about 250k for the compressed source. Don't know about the libraries it requires. -- Steve Harris Everything you do from now on will be more fun - Windows 95 installation From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 15:20:01 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA10422 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:20:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from bromine.myriadgate.net (openbsd.myriadgate.net [139.142.42.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA10414 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:19:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 20821 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2000 19:16:17 -0000 Received: from xenon.myriadgate.net (HELO mail.usask.ca) (andrey@192.168.120.7) by bromine.myriadgate.net with SMTP; 18 Jul 2000 19:16:17 -0000 Message-ID: <3974AD4E.8312954A@mail.usask.ca> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:17:34 -0600 From: Andrey Mirtchovski <aam396@mail.usask.ca> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.11 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Gecko based web browser References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10007181354080.30448-100000@sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Stephen Harris wrote: > There is a small, working web browser thinly built around Gecko alone, > without the Mozilla baggage. It's called Galeon and is starting to > become popular. It's at http://galeon.sourceforge.net Oh yeah, it made it to slashdot even... AFAIK it is tightly coupled with GNOME (they advertise it as a gnome web browser) which means it exploits the gtk+ libraries. A freebsd port is in the works (if not completed already) but a plan9 one would require gtk to be ported... And then we may just as well start porting the entire gnome bloatware... :P andrey From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 16:20:13 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA12075 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 16:20:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.92]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA12053 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 16:19:57 -0400 (EDT) From: miller@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk Received: from hamnavoe.demon.co.uk ([158.152.225.204]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 13EdqN-000IVk-0Y for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 21:19:55 +0100 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 21:23:43 BST Subject: Re: [9fans] Gecko based web browser Message-Id: <E13EdqN-000IVk-0Y@anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > Supposedly supports all the latest web standards. -------------------- Whose? From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 16:48:09 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA13002 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 16:48:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from whitecrow.demon.co.uk (root@whitecrow.demon.co.uk [194.222.126.246]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA12996 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 16:47:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from whitecrow.demon.co.uk (steve@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by whitecrow.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA12571 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 19:31:55 +0100 Message-Id: <200007181831.TAA12571@whitecrow.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mothra In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 18 Jul 2000 16:38:59 -0000." <E13EZRk-000ElS-0V@anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 19:31:55 +0200 From: Steve Kilbane <steve@whitecrow.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu It seems to me that the reason why a web browser would be such a behemoth is because current browsers try to do everything in one. Breaking the problems down might produce something that's more reasonable. The protocols should be separate. Whether it's something as simple as writing a URL to a ctl file and reading a page back from a data file, or something more subtle, I don't know, but the posting and fetching shouldn't have much of a clue about what to do with the result. Since the spec keeps changing, maybe the returned page could be translated into a local language that was more stable, and more attuned to using a filesystem as the underlying namespace model than URLs. For doing the translation, perhaps a leaf could be taken from troff's book, and have subcomponents of the page translated into something else - the underlying, internal language. There's always going to be some sites (or parts of them) that fall through the gap and don't work. But that's true now, for everyone... steve From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 18:07:48 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA14750 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 18:07:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from marge.cyber-dyne.com (root@marge.cyber-dyne.com [207.189.172.1]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA14745 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 18:07:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cyber-dyne.com (IDENT:root@rac0D.cyber-dyne.com [207.189.172.163]) by marge.cyber-dyne.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id PAA11194 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:07:39 -0700 Received: (from randolph@localhost) by cyber-dyne.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA01156 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:07:36 -0700 Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:07:36 -0700 From: Randolph Fritz <randolph@cyber-dyne.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Gecko based web browser Message-ID: <20000718150736.A959@cyber-dyne.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <E13EdqN-000IVk-0Y@anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <E13EdqN-000IVk-0Y@anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net>; from miller@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk on Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 09:23:43PM +0100 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 09:23:43PM +0100, miller@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk wrote: > > Supposedly supports all the latest web standards. W3's. Really. :) -- Randolph Fritz Eugene, Oregon, USA From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 18:16:35 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA14988 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 18:16:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from marge.cyber-dyne.com (marge.cyber-dyne.com [207.189.172.1]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA14978 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 18:16:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cyber-dyne.com (IDENT:root@rac0D.cyber-dyne.com [207.189.172.163]) by marge.cyber-dyne.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id PAA11515 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:15:51 -0700 Received: (from randolph@localhost) by cyber-dyne.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA01193 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:15:49 -0700 Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:15:49 -0700 From: Randolph Fritz <randolph@cyber-dyne.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mothra Message-ID: <20000718151549.B959@cyber-dyne.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200007181826.OAA08546@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200007181826.OAA08546@cse.psu.edu>; from forsyth@vitanuova.com on Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 07:26:22PM +0000 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 07:26:22PM +0000, forsyth@vitanuova.com wrote: > > Chris Locke wrote an Inferno plug-in for Internet Explorer that lets > you run a full Inferno session (including window manager, charon and Acme) > in an explorer page. Inferno is running in the page, it's not just > a terminal, although it can obviously then mount remote services. > The words of the apocalypse: It would be perfectly practical to implement 9P as a Javascript class. The rest, as they say, is left as an exercise to the student. Randolph, wondering if he's created a monster From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 18:33:41 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA15404 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 18:33:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA15400 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 18:33:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007182233.SAA15400@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Gecko based web browser From: "rob pike" <rob@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 18:33:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > W3's. Really. :) I know I can look this up myself, but... does W3 propose a Javascript standard? -rob From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 19:00:13 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA15896 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 19:00:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from crufty.research.bell-labs.com (crufty.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.49]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA15892 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 19:00:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nslocum.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.8.38]) by crufty; Tue Jul 18 18:59:10 EDT 2000 Received: from HWTPC (hwt-pc.cs.bell-labs.com [135.104.53.98]) by nslocum.cs.bell-labs.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA19430941 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 18:59:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002b01bff10b$dac178f0$62356887@HWTPC> From: "Howard Trickey" <howard@research.bell-labs.com> To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200007182233.SAA15400@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Gecko based web browser Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 18:59:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > I know I can look this up myself, but... does W3 propose a > Javascript standard? It's a ECMA standard ("ECMAscript"). Of course, Sun and Microsoft went their own ways a bit on it, but the language itself is reasonably well defined and the implementations of it don't differ all too much; it's the document object model that is the horror when it comes to different implementations. W3C has a standard for it, but IE and Netscape differ widely here (even different versions of each). Howard Trickey From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 19:03:17 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA16037 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 19:03:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (caldo.demon.co.uk [194.222.207.148]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA16027 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 19:03:09 -0400 (EDT) From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk Message-Id: <200007182303.TAA16027@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Gecko based web browser Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 00:02:46 0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu are the real-audio and flash web formats documented somewhere? From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 19:13:11 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA16338 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 19:13:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from jaco.fgleason.com (jaco.fgleason.com [207.115.75.69]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA16327 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 19:12:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (frankg@localhost) by jaco.fgleason.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id PAA03519 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:30:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:30:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Frank Gleason <frankg@jaco.fgleason.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Gecko based web browser In-Reply-To: <200007182303.TAA16027@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000718152544.23357B-100000@jaco.fgleason.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu The real-audio format is documented on www.realnetworks.com/devzone. Somewhere on the site is the source to a referance RTSP player. I have the link if you need it. Frank Gleason RealNetworks On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk wrote: > are the real-audio and flash web formats documented somewhere? > From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 19:49:12 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA17329 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 19:49:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from marge.cyber-dyne.com (root@marge.cyber-dyne.com [207.189.172.1]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA17321 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 19:49:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cyber-dyne.com (IDENT:root@rac0D.cyber-dyne.com [207.189.172.163]) by marge.cyber-dyne.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id QAA14624 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 16:48:57 -0700 Received: (from randolph@localhost) by cyber-dyne.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA01670 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 16:48:56 -0700 Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 16:48:55 -0700 From: Randolph Fritz <randolph@cyber-dyne.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Gecko based web browser Message-ID: <20000718164855.E959@cyber-dyne.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10007181354080.30448-100000@sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV> <3974AD4E.8312954A@mail.usask.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <3974AD4E.8312954A@mail.usask.ca>; from aam396@mail.usask.ca on Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 01:17:34PM -0600 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 01:17:34PM -0600, Andrey Mirtchovski wrote: > Stephen Harris wrote: > > > There is a small, working web browser thinly built around Gecko alone, > > without the Mozilla baggage. It's called Galeon and is starting to > > become popular. It's at http://galeon.sourceforge.net > > Oh yeah, it made it to slashdot even... > > AFAIK it is tightly coupled with GNOME (they advertise it as a gnome web browser) > which means it exploits the gtk+ libraries. A freebsd port is in the works (if > not completed already) but a plan9 one would require gtk to be ported... And then > we may just as well start porting the entire gnome bloatware... :P > But Mozilla itself is not gtk based, so galeon might be a useful model for a more 9ish version. To be continued... -- Randolph Fritz Eugene, Oregon, USA From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 20:17:50 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA17876 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 20:17:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from marge.cyber-dyne.com (root@marge.cyber-dyne.com [207.189.172.1]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA17872 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 20:17:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cyber-dyne.com (IDENT:root@rac0D.cyber-dyne.com [207.189.172.163]) by marge.cyber-dyne.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id RAA15615 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 17:17:38 -0700 Received: (from randolph@localhost) by cyber-dyne.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA01879 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 17:17:36 -0700 Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 17:17:36 -0700 From: Randolph Fritz <randolph@cyber-dyne.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Gecko based web browser Message-ID: <20000718171736.A1839@cyber-dyne.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200007182303.TAA16027@cse.psu.edu> <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000718152544.23357B-100000@jaco.fgleason.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000718152544.23357B-100000@jaco.fgleason.com>; from frankg@jaco.fgleason.com on Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 03:30:13PM -0700 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 03:30:13PM -0700, Frank Gleason wrote: > > The real-audio format is documented on www.realnetworks.com/devzone. > Somewhere on the site is the source to a referance RTSP player. I > have the link if you need it. > I was under the impression that the format is proprietary. Was I wrong? -- Randolph Fritz Eugene, Oregon, USA From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 20:44:03 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA18361 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 20:44:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from jaco.fgleason.com (jaco.fgleason.com [207.115.75.69]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA18355 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 20:43:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (frankg@localhost) by jaco.fgleason.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id RAA06034 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 17:01:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 17:01:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Frank Gleason <frankg@jaco.fgleason.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Gecko based web browser In-Reply-To: <20000718171736.A1839@cyber-dyne.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000718164852.3575A-100000@jaco.fgleason.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Tue, 18 Jul 2000, Randolph Fritz wrote: > On Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 03:30:13PM -0700, Frank Gleason wrote: > > > > The real-audio format is documented on www.realnetworks.com/devzone. > > Somewhere on the site is the source to a referance RTSP player. I > > have the link if you need it. > > > > I was under the impression that the format is proprietary. Was I wrong? > RealAudio is streamed in RTSP, an open streaming protocal. The proprietary part is the codec. I don't know that the referance player (and server if I remember correctly) implement for the codec, but I am sure that if it is a Real codec it's not going to be very current. I'll have a look at the readme and see what the story is. Frank > -- > Randolph Fritz > Eugene, Oregon, USA > From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 21:00:50 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA18693 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 21:00:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from prognet.com (prognet.com [205.219.198.1]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA18687 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 21:00:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user ([172.21.104.107]) by prognet.com (8.9.2/8.9.0) with SMTP id SAA27175 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 18:00:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20000718180217.00919560@mail.real.com> X-Sender: skipt@mail.real.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 18:02:17 -0700 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Skip Tavakkolian <skipt@real.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Gecko based web browser In-Reply-To: <200007182303.TAA16027@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Internals of the RA/RV are proprietary and their formats are not publicly available. RealMedia is the container type which encapsulates RA/RV tracks, etc. RM type is described in the RealSystem SDK (formerly RMASDK). You can get the SDK from http://www.realnetworks.com/devzone/downlds/index.html The streaming control protocol is RTSP, which is well documented (IETF). Different implementations are interoperable. The stream payload format is RTP with some additional headers. I have some thoughts on how one could support Real types under Inferno (for Windows) using the RMASDK, if you are interested. At 12:02 AM 7/19/00, forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk wrote: >are the real-audio and flash web formats documented somewhere? > > From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Jul 18 23:44:49 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA21451 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 23:44:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA21447 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 23:44:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id FAA04869 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 05:44:30 +0200 (SAST) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 05:44:29 +0200 From: Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: rc Message-ID: <20000719054429.A3081@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <E13EbXZ-0006k5-00@dfw-mmp4.email.verio.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <E13EbXZ-0006k5-00@dfw-mmp4.email.verio.net>; from erik quanstrom on Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 05:52:21PM +0000 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 05:52:21PM +0000, erik quanstrom wrote: > > that's not my recollection. in 1992 i talked michael k johnson into letting > me use his pre-1.0 linux box to port rc because -- as far as we could tell -- > nobody'd done it. > Curious. If Linux hadn't had rc when I first encountered it (really early days - 1992 seems already late, what with Linux sitting in the 0.xx for quite a while), I wouldn't have met Plan 9 that soon. But it is from memory. Bash may well have been an option, but in the Minix filesystem, it would have been a real hog. Specially if GCC was still growing up at the time :-) I hope I'm not distorting history. ++L From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 01:41:10 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA23027 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 01:41:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from marge.cyber-dyne.com (root@marge.cyber-dyne.com [207.189.172.1]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA23023 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 01:41:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cyber-dyne.com (IDENT:root@rac0N.cyber-dyne.com [207.189.172.173]) by marge.cyber-dyne.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA25727 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:41:00 -0700 Received: (from randolph@localhost) by cyber-dyne.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA03298 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:40:58 -0700 Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:40:58 -0700 From: Randolph Fritz <randolph@cyber-dyne.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Gecko based web browser Message-ID: <20000718224058.A3233@cyber-dyne.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10007181354080.30448-100000@sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV> <3974AD4E.8312954A@mail.usask.ca> <20000718164855.E959@cyber-dyne.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <20000718164855.E959@cyber-dyne.com>; from randolph@cyber-dyne.com on Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 04:48:55PM -0700 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 04:48:55PM -0700, Randolph Fritz wrote: > > But Mozilla itself is not gtk based, so galeon might be a useful > model for a more 9ish version. To be continued... > I've downloaded it & had a look. Basically, Galeon is a thin shell around ngLayout (*). Probably ngLayout could be adapted, but I'm not sure how much of Mozilla would have to come along. -- Randolph Fritz Eugene, Oregon, USA * ngLayout is not a trademark of Netscape...but Gecko is. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 03:19:03 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA24203 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 03:19:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (caldo.demon.co.uk [194.222.207.148]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA24199 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 03:18:57 -0400 (EDT) From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk Message-Id: <200007190718.DAA24199@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Gecko based web browser Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 08:18:36 0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >>are the real-audio and flash web formats documented somewhere? >Internals of the RA/RV are proprietary and their formats are not publicly >available. RealMedia is the container type which encapsulates RA/RV much more as i expected (which is why i asked). i knew about the stream format (more or less) because that's publicly documented. some web content that end users want to have is not. it's only available via binary plug-ins, and some -- perhaps many -- of those only work under windows (and sometimes only within a browser, though that might not be true of realaudio). by `format' i meant the whole thing. it seems a bit pointless to implement the transport without being able to replay the sounds it contains. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 03:43:59 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA24593 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 03:43:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA24587 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 03:43:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id JAA05039 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 09:43:41 +0200 (SAST) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 09:43:38 +0200 From: Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Gecko based web browser Message-ID: <20000719094337.B3081@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200007190718.DAA24199@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <200007190718.DAA24199@cse.psu.edu>; from forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk on Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 08:18:36AM +0000 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 08:18:36AM +0000, forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk wrote: > it seems a bit pointless to implement the transport without being > able to replay the sounds it contains. Not altogether, one may want to record it, or perhaps we can figure a way to pipe to a win box, if there's no other option. Consider that squid is not entirely superfluous :-) I think we should look at a browser that has the facilities for plug-ins, make the latter as simple as possible and let history takes its course. I think it was Diamond that eventually regretted their decision not to disclose to the XFree86 boffs how their VGA adapters operated. And, I hasten to add, if we have the infrastructure in place, we can easily ride the wave of supply meeting demand (consider CSS as a case in point) currently being driven by the Linux community. But we do need to build the foundations for it (and a little more, when it comes to web browsers and, I'd like to repeat, graphic rendering engines). ++L PS: I think this forum has been wonderful in one particular respect, namely in discouraging kitchen-sinkenitis, with sensible reasoning. I'd like to see more ideas being proposed here, and the same careful consideration given to them. There are many neophytes that, not unlike me, still do not altogether grasp the philosophy behind Plan 9 and I believe it does not hurt to emphasise it by example on a regular basis. There are also many capable developers that only need some encouragement to take Plan 9 further. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 03:49:44 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA24794 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 03:49:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.91.52]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA24790 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 03:49:39 -0400 (EDT) From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Message-Id: <200007190749.DAA24790@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:49:39 +0900 Subject: Re: [9fans] AUTH, FS, etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu I lost the original post from L++. Flow rate of this mailing-list is too high to maintain those in a file these days... Anyway, probably Lucio may have two different auth/cpu servers for relase 2 and 3. In that case, he should change the auth ID for those two servers. In our site, original Auth server has the ID of bootes, it was named when I was not fully understand the network nechanism of Plan 9(about 5 years ago, wah, time passes so quickly). :-) I also recommend Lucio that for release 2 you may have only b.com in your boot floppy and use bootp for downloading its kernel from release 2 file server. On the other hand, for release 3, you should have the kernel in your boot floppy. This is somewhat tricky though. I'm not sure this may work for Lucio, because I don't know his network. Kenji From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 03:58:53 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA25025 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 03:58:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from marge.cyber-dyne.com (root@marge.cyber-dyne.com [207.189.172.1]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA25020 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 03:58:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cyber-dyne.com (IDENT:root@rac0D.cyber-dyne.com [207.189.172.163]) by marge.cyber-dyne.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA29016 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 00:58:42 -0700 Received: (from randolph@localhost) by cyber-dyne.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA03934 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 00:58:41 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 00:58:40 -0700 From: Randolph Fritz <randolph@cyber-dyne.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Gecko based web browser Message-ID: <20000719005840.A3921@cyber-dyne.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200007190718.DAA24199@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200007190718.DAA24199@cse.psu.edu>; from forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk on Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 08:18:36AM +0000 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 08:18:36AM +0000, forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk wrote: > > much more as i expected (which is why i asked). i knew about the > stream format (more or less) because that's publicly documented. > some web content that end users want to have is not. it's only > available via binary plug-ins, and some -- perhaps many -- of those > only work under windows (and sometimes only within a browser, though > that might not be true of realaudio). by `format' i meant the whole > thing. it seems a bit pointless to implement the transport without > being able to replay the sounds it contains. > On the other hand, Ogg Vorbis *is* an open audio compression format. I don't know much about it, but more can be found at <http://www.xiph.org/ogg/vorbis/index.html>. -- Randolph Fritz Eugene, Oregon, USA From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 04:28:41 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA25489 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 04:28:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA25484 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 04:28:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id KAA05094 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:28:22 +0200 (SAST) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:28:20 +0200 From: Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] AUTH, FS, etc. Message-ID: <20000719102820.C3081@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200007190749.DAA24790@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <200007190749.DAA24790@cse.psu.edu>; from okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp on Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 04:49:39PM +0900 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 04:49:39PM +0900, okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote: > > Anyway, probably Lucio may have two different auth/cpu servers for relase > 2 and 3. In that case, he should change the auth ID for those two servers. > In our site, original Auth server has the ID of bootes, it was named when > I was not fully understand the network nechanism of Plan 9(about 5 years ago, > wah, time passes so quickly). :-) > That makes perfect sense. Do you think two AUTH servers are necessary? I'm tempted to run everything off the 2ed CPU server, but install a second CPU server - without AUTH - for drawterm's benefit (yes, you may call me a philistine :-) I've also successfully installed the 3ed release on the 2ed file server and it seems capable of supporting a 3ed nearly diskless workstation quite reasonably (it did reboot without explanation, except that it was doing that regularly as late as day before yesterday because of power problems, so I'll leave panicking till later). > I also recommend Lucio that for release 2 you may have only b.com in > your boot floppy and use bootp for downloading its kernel from release 2 > file server. On the other hand, for release 3, you should have the kernel > in your boot floppy. This is somewhat tricky though. > I wonder what the actual capabilities are. I'd like a middle path between my understanding (or lack thereof) of b.com and 9load. I'd like the kernel to be booted off the net, but the necessary information to come from the DHCP server, ISC's until I have a really stable, self-initiating Plan 9 network. At this point, the fileserver can boot first, but then I need BOOTP on my NetBSD server to kickstart the 2ed CPU/AUTH server. This clashes with needing DHCP for the workstation as well as other machines on the network. It is a little galling, because I'm sure it would not be hard to tidy all this up. But I am making some progress. > I'm not sure this may work for Lucio, because I don't know his network. > I run two NetBSD servers, a WinNT server on a multiboot machine shared with MS-DOS and Win95, my workstation is a diskless (RARP and BOOTPARAMS eventually providing NFS) NetBSD X-server, but nearly ready to run as a 9-term if I get daring. I have a machine on which I installed Plan 9 3ed, then a 2ed CPU/AUTH server with a small IDE disk drive (I mean small, 40Meg) and a 2ed FS with two disks: main is 2ed jumbled up variously, other is 3ed, already not so pristine. A last NetBSD box is my gateway to the Internet (slow analogue leased line to a client with a faster link) and, last, I have a Netware server, version 3.11 which I have not used since Y2K for various reasons. Altogether a rather confused research laboratory. Oh, I also have a soldering iron, and I _do_ know which side is hot :-) ++L From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 04:50:17 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA25864 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 04:50:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from indosuez.com ([195.115.40.229]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA25859 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 04:50:12 -0400 (EDT) From: boyd.roberts@ca-indosuez.com Received: from SNPAR12. (mailer@fw-local [192.168.192.6]) by indosuez.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA10069 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:47:53 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by SNPAR12.(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) id 41256921.003667D6 ; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:54:15 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: BANQUE INDOSUEZ To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <41256921.003665FB.00@SNPAR12.> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:51:28 +0200 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9f._:_[9fans]_Re:_interaction?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu those suggestions are specific to Plan 9 whereas I was asking the 2 posters about their style of usage of rc on *Unix*. i was using X and rc. i had a tail -f of my history file in a window, but pretty much i persuaded X/twm into being 'like' 8 1/2. yes, button 3 would give you new/reshape/... it wasn't plan 9, but having rc was hot! From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 05:30:45 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA26480 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 05:30:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from indosuez.com ([195.115.40.229]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA26475 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 05:30:32 -0400 (EDT) From: boyd.roberts@ca-indosuez.com Received: from SNPAR12. (mailer@fw-local [192.168.192.6]) by indosuez.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA11536 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:28:13 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by SNPAR12.(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) id 41256921.003A11F7 ; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:34:16 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: BANQUE INDOSUEZ To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <41256921.003A106A.00@SNPAR12.> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:31:30 +0200 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9f._:_Re:_[9fans]_Gecko_based_web_browser?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu this is not amazingly well researched, but a http file system has a certain appeal. it's just 'feels' doable. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 05:37:50 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA26691 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 05:37:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.91.52]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA26687 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 05:37:44 -0400 (EDT) From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Message-Id: <200007190937.FAA26687@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 18:37:45 +0900 Subject: Re: [9fans] AUTH, FS, etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >I wonder what the actual capabilities are. I'd like a middle path >between my understanding (or lack thereof) of b.com and 9load. I don't know exactly. I wrote just my successfull route for you. ^_^ This is a temporal way untli the 3rd release will have all the capability which now my 2nd release have, then, I think it's enough if it works. In our setting, we rarely experience the confusion by which file server responds, only once for a PC terminal. Therefore, I suppose something very tricky conditions must be there. Your network texture beyonds my understanding! What are you doing on that network, anyway? :-) cheers. Kenji from 2nd Plan9 terminal on Sparc. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 05:41:11 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA26869 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 05:41:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA26846 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 05:40:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13Eq95-0007X8-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:28:03 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 09:27:45 GMT From: Christopher Browne <cbbrowne@news.isp.giganews.com> Message-ID: <EO6d5.345524$MB.5507520@news6.giganews.com> Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10007181354080.30448-100000@sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV> Reply-To: cbbrowne@hex.net Subject: Re: [9fans] Gecko based web browser Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when Stephen Harris would say: >Someone was asking about Gecko, which is the layout/rendering engine >used by Mozilla. > >There is a small, working web browser thinly built around Gecko alone, >without the Mozilla baggage. It's called Galeon and is starting to >become popular. It's at http://galeon.sourceforge.net > >Supposedly supports all the latest web standards. > >It's about 250k for the compressed source. Don't know about the >libraries it requires. It may be 250k of compressed source for Galeon, but note that: "It requires Gnome and MOZILLA M16." Those two "code bases" represent a _mite_ more than 250k of code, and I suspect that the Plan 9 port would be, um, challenging... -- cbbrowne@ntlug.org - <http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/> It's hard to tell if someone is inconspicuous. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 05:41:07 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA26865 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 05:41:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA26853 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 05:40:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13Eq95-0007X2-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:28:03 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 09:27:29 GMT From: Lyndon Nerenberg <lyndon@messagingdirect.com> Message-ID: <86vgy33uej.fsf@gollum.esys.ca> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK References: <E13EZRk-000ElS-0V@anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net>, <200007181831.TAA12571@whitecrow.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] mothra Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >>>>> "Steve" == Steve Kilbane <steve@whitecrow.demon.co.uk> writes: Steve> The protocols should be separate. Whether it's something as Steve> simple as writing a URL to a ctl file and reading a page Steve> back from a data file, or something more subtle, I don't Steve> know, but the posting and fetching shouldn't have much of a Steve> clue about what to do with the result. Exactly. An httpfs that just serves HTTP raw MIME content (and handles caching). We have to divorce HTTP from HTML. They're two distinct problems. We should look at the 3rd edition mail system for clues on how to layer an HTML reader on top of an HTTP fileserver. The mail problem is very similar: MIME on top of IMAP. s/IMAP/HTTP/ using the existing MUA tools and we're much of the way there. (Especially if httpfs can export a file/directory structure comparable to how the IMAP server does it. httpfs caching might in fact be mandatory for this to be possible.) --lyndon From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 05:41:21 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA26887 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 05:41:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA26864 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 05:41:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13Eq94-0007Ww-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:28:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 09:27:12 GMT From: Chris Locke <chris@cjl1.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <963959212.16494.0.nnrp-02.c2de4822@news.demon.co.uk> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK References: <E13EZRk-000ElS-0V@anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net>, <200007181831.TAA12571@whitecrow.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] mothra Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Steve Kilbane <steve@whitecrow.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:200007181831.TAA12571@whitecrow.demon.co.uk... > It seems to me that the reason why a web browser would be such a > behemoth is because current browsers try to do everything in one. > Breaking the problems down might produce something that's more > reasonable. > Charon is indeed implemented in a fairly 'modular' way by virtue of it being written in Limbo. There are 'protocol' modules for the http, ftp and file URL protocol specifiers. URL parsing is done by a distinct module. Image cache, again a separate module. Ecmascript - separate module, carefully designed for re-use in any app that wants ECMA-262 support. What you find is that you have to implement a huge amount of stuff that, even though carefully crafted as distinct modules, only the browser actually uses! Having worked with web-phone manufacturers, the modular nature of Charon is great as you can simply not include certain modules (e.g. Javascript) on a phone to free up some flash. But in reality everyone wants everything. Worse, they want it to look exactly the same as IE, including quicktime, windows media player, macromedia flash vector graphics etc etc and they complain when it doesn't run in under 4MB on a device with no hard disk! If you start on a web-browser project, be under no illusion as to how much people will moan about your efforts, even if they were never meant to be 'the latest and greatest web browsing experience'. There will always be a page that someone wants to see that your software doesn't render and you can bet you'll hear about it! Throwing a few more irons in this fire - consider the number of sites that use Javascript for simple navigation, redirection and stuff like that. It is impossible to get some pages without Javascript support. You just need a URL you say? PAH I say! URLs get generated by servers on the fly, parameterised to indicate some notion of 'session' (trying to get round failing of the underlying protocol) - how's that going to work in a Fileserver model for web access? Just my 2p's worth Chris. (Posting from home - my views not Vita Nuova's) From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 05:41:19 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA26883 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 05:41:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA26858 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 05:40:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13Eq94-0007Wq-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:28:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 09:26:57 GMT From: Michael Dingler <mdingler@mindless.com> Message-ID: <3974BE43.1CCCC25F@mindless.com> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10007181354080.30448-100000@sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV>, <3974AD4E.8312954A@mail.usask.ca> Subject: Re: [9fans] Gecko based web browser Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > > There is a small, working web browser thinly built around Gecko alone, > > without the Mozilla baggage. It's called Galeon and is starting to > > become popular. It's at http://galeon.sourceforge.net > > Oh yeah, it made it to slashdot even... > > AFAIK it is tightly coupled with GNOME (they advertise it as a gnome web browser) > which means it exploits the gtk+ libraries. A freebsd port is in the works (if > not completed already) but a plan9 one would require gtk to be ported... And then > we may just as well start porting the entire gnome bloatware... :P Erm, I don't think that that anything of GNOME/gtk is neccesary for the HTML display, parsing etc. It's just wedged in your typical WIMPy framework due to those libraries. Porting Gecko shouldn't require anything from gtk, or else the Win/Mac/Yadda people would have some serious problems. On the other hand, would that be a satisfying solution at all to have one of the current-generation browsers? IMHO that's like porting Motif to Plan9. HTML display, ok, but not the current abomination. Although you'd need half an expert system to demoronise existing pages. ...Michael... From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 05:45:28 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA27322 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 05:45:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA27313 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 05:45:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13EqJa-0007dq-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:38:54 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 09:28:00 GMT From: Chris Locke <chris@cjl1.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <963992510.14004.0.nnrp-12.c2de4822@news.demon.co.uk> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK References: <200007181826.OAA08546@cse.psu.edu>, <20000718151549.B959@cyber-dyne.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] mothra Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Randolph Fritz <randolph@cyber-dyne.com> wrote in message > > It would be perfectly practical to implement 9P as a Javascript > class. You are confusing Java and Javascript. They share 4 letters of their name and that's about all. Chris. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 05:54:42 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA27658 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 05:54:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA27653 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 05:54:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id LAA05190 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:54:12 +0200 (SAST) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:54:11 +0200 From: Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] AUTH, FS, etc. Message-ID: <20000719115411.D3081@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200007190937.FAA26687@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <200007190937.FAA26687@cse.psu.edu>; from okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp on Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 06:37:45PM +0900 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 06:37:45PM +0900, okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote: > > I don't know exactly. I wrote just my successfull route for you. ^_^ > This is a temporal way untli the 3rd release will have all the capability > which now my 2nd release have, then, I think it's enough if it works. > Well, as it stands, 3ed has some way to go before it is ready for shrink-wrap. But this is the exciting stage, when the path ahead is still being established. > In our setting, we rarely experience the confusion by which file server > responds, only once for a PC terminal. Therefore, I suppose something > very tricky conditions must be there. > I'm sticking to the 2ed fileserver, because I have only 1542CP adapters and only one host to run it on. It seems to work just fine, now that I've figured out most of the ins and outs. What I can't quite decide is whether I need a second CPU server, or I should update the 2ed one to 3ed. I'm very keen to check out the new mailer facilities of ACME and upas/fs. My present facility is adequate but ready to be improved on. And I really need to grasp the DHCP/BOOTP aspects of the boot procedure properly, both in 2nd and 3rd edition. > Your network texture beyonds my understanding! What are you doing > on that network, anyway? :-) > Learning, mostly. It takes me a long time to understand things to my satisfaction, and I have far too many interests. Occasionally, a client will need something I learnt and will pay me for it :-) The confusion is much greater when one looks at the NAT and IP filter rules and the multihoming in place at the client whose Internet services I'm privileged to share. ++L From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 06:09:13 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA28058 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 06:09:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from indosuez.com ([195.115.40.229]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA28054 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 06:09:07 -0400 (EDT) From: boyd.roberts@ca-indosuez.com Received: from SNPAR12. (mailer@fw-local [192.168.192.6]) by indosuez.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA12629 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:06:43 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by SNPAR12.(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) id 41256921.003DA03E ; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:13:07 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: BANQUE INDOSUEZ To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <41256921.003D9F4C.00@SNPAR12.> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:10:18 +0200 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9f._:_Re:_[9fans]_mothra?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu i don't think of building as a huge lump of code is the way to go. start with a simple design and glue it together with a simple set of tools. tools that do _one_ thing; keeps the code smaller and when it breaks you know where to look and the design can evolve. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 06:11:19 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA28219 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 06:11:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from indosuez.com ([195.115.40.229]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA28214 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 06:11:09 -0400 (EDT) From: boyd.roberts@ca-indosuez.com Received: from SNPAR12. (mailer@fw-local [192.168.192.6]) by indosuez.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA12687 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:08:42 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by SNPAR12.(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) id 41256921.003DCC19 ; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:14:59 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: BANQUE INDOSUEZ To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <41256921.003DCB1F.00@SNPAR12.> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:12:14 +0200 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9f._:_Re:_[9fans]_mothra?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; Boundary="0__=uK9fDHfRZbNyb4FzEErvg6dGJmkbOdoj23NY7CmAtiUAJreUzFFYTJIS" Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu --0__=uK9fDHfRZbNyb4FzEErvg6dGJmkbOdoj23NY7CmAtiUAJreUzFFYTJIS Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable the writing of java* should be punishable by death. =20 (Embedded =20 image moved Chris Locke <chris@cjl1.demon.co.uk> =20 to file: 19/07/2000 11:28 =20 pic18590.pcx) =20 =20 Veuillez r=E9pondre =E0 9fans@cse.psu.edu Pour: 9fans@cse.psu.edu cc: (ccc: Boyd ROBERTS/EST/DOSI/BANQUE_INDOSUEZ/FR) Objet: Re: [9fans] mothra = --0__=uK9fDHfRZbNyb4FzEErvg6dGJmkbOdoj23NY7CmAtiUAJreUzFFYTJIS Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Randolph Fritz <randolph@cyber-dyne.com> wrote in message > > It would be perfectly practical to implement 9P as a Javascript > class. You are confusing Java and Javascript. They share 4 letters of their name and that's about all. Chris. --0__=uK9fDHfRZbNyb4FzEErvg6dGJmkbOdoj23NY7CmAtiUAJreUzFFYTJIS Content-type: application/octet-stream; name="pic18590.pcx" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pic18590.pcx" Content-transfer-encoding: base64 CgUBCAAAAABoACwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAABaQABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPH E8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sT zRPHE8MTwhPwEwzIBgzYE8wTxhPDE8IT7hPOBtcTzBPGE8MTE+wTwgbCBwbCEgbCEgbCEsUG1hPL E8YTwxMT6hMMwgYHwgLCAwISwgfEEsMCwwbVE8sTxRPDExPpE8MGAwcCBwMCwhLDB8ISwgISwgLD BtUTyhPFE8MTE+gTwgIHA8ICEw4DDgLDE8USwwLCEMIG1BPKE8UTwxMT5xMCAwcDAg4TDgITwgIS D8ISD8ISBRICEcICwwbUE8oTxRPCExPmEwYCBwMCDgIOwgLDExITEhPCEg8GxgLDBtMMDAfJE8QT whMT5hMGwwITBgMCDhLFEw8SE8ISBgIDwhIDEsMGB9MDxwwHxRPDExPlEwYHAhESAg8CwhMPwhMP xBMPxRIQwgIDAgMCBtMDxwPEDAfDE8IT4RMHwwzCBgLCEhMCDxLIE8MSD8MSwwIQAwIDBgfSDMkD wgPCDAfCExPbEwfGDMIDDAIHERITEhMSwxMPwxMPwxPDEgIDAgMCwwMCBgzREwfHDMYDDMITE9YT B8UMyAMGB8ICBhLDAsYTEhMSExIPwhIHAgcCAwUQAgYRBgfSE8UTB8QMwgMMwhMT0hMHxAzLA8IM BsISDxESExITAw4DxBMSExITwxICBwPCAsMDDMIGB9ITyRMHwwzCExPPEwfDDMkDxQwHwhMGBxIT AhECEwMOAg7DExITDxMPwxIDAgMCBwMCDAYRBgfSE8kTwhPCDMITE8wTB8MMxwPEDMIHxxMGxBLD Ag4DDgIGwg/IEgIDwgIDAgwCEMIGB9ITyRMHDAcMwhMTyhMHwgzGA8MMwgfMEwYHwhLCEAIOAg4C DhDDAhIPxhIFAgXDAgUCEQYH0hPHEwfCDAcPDMITE8gTB8IMxQPDDAfQEwbDEhDEAhAOEA4QwgLG EgcSBhIGBcMCBcIGB9ATB8UMEwfCDA8HDwwHwhMTxhMHwgzEA8MMB9MTBgfCEhADEMICDhAOEMIC EQIDxxIGBwbCAgUCEQYHyxMHxAwHwhMHEwzCEwcPBw8MB8MTE8UTBwzEA8IMB9YTBsQSEAMCA8UC EQIDAgPDEgcSBgfCBgUQAhDCBgfGEwfEDAfGE8INEwzCEw8HwgwHwxPCE8QTBwzDA8IMB9gTBgfE EhACEMYCEQIDAsQSBhLDBsICEALCBgfCEwfDDAfKEwfCDRMHwhPCDAfEE8ITE8MTBwzCA8IMB9oT DBIHwxLDDBEDxQIDAgPDEgYSBgfCBgIQAhAGDAfCEwzDE8MHyRMHwhPCBxMHxRPDExPDEwzCAwwH 3RMGxxICEQPDAgMCA8MSBhIGBwYMBhACEAIGDMMTDBPCB8YTwwfHEwfGE8MTwhPDEwwDDAfeEwYH xxICEQPDAgMCwhIGEgYHBgwGEAIQAsIGB8MTDMYTwwfKEwzGE8MTwhPDE8IMB98TDBLCB8USAgMR xAISB8ISBgcGDAYQBhAGEAYMB8MMB8kTwwfHEwzGE8MTwhPDEwwPwgzfEwYSB8ISB8ISAhECAwID EgcSBwYHBgwGEAYQxgzDD8IHxRPDB8kTBwzGE8MTwhPDEwzDD8QM3BPCBhIGwxIGAhECAwIHBgcG yAzJDxMHzRMHwwwHxxPDE8ITwxMHDMYPxwwH1BMGEgYSBhLLDM4PwwwTDMcTwgfEDAfJE8QTwhMT xBMHwgzLD9sM0w/GDAfDEwzDEwfEDAfLE8YTwxMTxhMHxAztD8gMBgfIE8QMB84TxxPDE8ITyhMH xwzbD8sMEAUMBcIMwgYH1RPKE8UTwxMT0RMH2wwGEAYQBhACBQwFDAUMBgwHBgfWE8sTxRPDExPu EwYMBhAGEAIGDAYMwwYH1xPLE8YTwxMT8BPKBgfYE8wTxhPDExP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPH E8MTwhMMAAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD/ /wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8A AAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A //8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAA AP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA /wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCk gICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vw oKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw //vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzA psrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDA wNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICA wMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACA AICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACA gACA//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP////// --0__=uK9fDHfRZbNyb4FzEErvg6dGJmkbOdoj23NY7CmAtiUAJreUzFFYTJIS-- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 07:45:51 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA29396 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 07:45:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk (mail@chiark.greenend.org.uk [195.224.76.132]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA29392 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 07:45:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from theoh by chiark.greenend.org.uk with local (Exim 2.05 #1) id 13EsIJ-0007GP-00 (Debian); Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:45:43 +0100 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Gecko based web browser Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <200007182303.TAA16027@cse.psu.edu> Message-Id: <E13EsIJ-0007GP-00@chiark.greenend.org.uk> From: Theo Honohan <theoh@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:45:43 +0100 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk wrote: >are the real-audio and flash web formats documented somewhere? > See http://www.openswf.org for links to most of the available Flash info. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 07:46:17 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA29444 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 07:46:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from dirty.research.bell-labs.com (dirty.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.6]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA29422 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 07:46:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nslocum.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.8.38]) by dirty; Wed Jul 19 07:45:05 EDT 2000 Received: from HWTPC (hwt-pc.cs.bell-labs.com [135.104.53.98]) by nslocum.cs.bell-labs.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA23867558 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 07:45:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <006f01bff176$dab42fe0$62356887@HWTPC> From: "Howard Trickey" <howard@research.bell-labs.com> To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <E13EZRk-000ElS-0V@anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net>, <200007181831.TAA12571@whitecrow.demon.co.uk> <86vgy33uej.fsf@gollum.esys.ca> Subject: Re: [9fans] mothra Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 07:45:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > Exactly. An httpfs that just serves HTTP raw MIME content (and handles > caching). > > We have to divorce HTTP from HTML. They're two distinct problems. You're kidding yourself if you think this comes anywhere near solving the big problems in writing a web browser. Actually fetching the bits and passing them along is trivial. (And, in any case, fetching the bits is more closely tied to the logic of the browser than you might think: you have to deal with redirections, errors, and authorization requests. And, it is good to be able to start rendering before all of the HTML has arrived, and certainly before all of the images have arrived.) I wrote the first version of the charon browser with a "webget" filesystem to serve the pages. I abandoned it in later rewrites, mainly for speed reasons, but also because it wasn't buying me anything. We only ever had one web client attached to the damn thing anyway. But that could change in a Plan 9 environment... Separating things into pieces is easy, but doesn't help much if the pieces are hard. The first real hard part is lexing/parsing the html in a way that is forgiving of errors in exactly the same ways as Netscape and IE. The next real hard part is getting the layout (especially tables!) exactly the same as Netscape and IE. Another hard part is SSL, just because ASN1 is a pain in the butt. The hardest hard part is making Javascript objects and methods that behave exactly the same as Netscape and IE (especially if you want to do something different with respect to the concepts of "top level windows" or "frames"). And don't say "it doesn't have to be exactly the same as Netscape and IE" until you've had users. - Howard Trickey, erstwhile fool From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 08:04:38 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA29932 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 08:04:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from indosuez.com ([195.115.40.229]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA29927 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 08:04:31 -0400 (EDT) From: boyd.roberts@ca-indosuez.com Received: from SNPAR12. (mailer@fw-local [192.168.192.6]) by indosuez.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA14585 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:02:09 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by SNPAR12.(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) id 41256921.004832B3 ; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:08:35 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: BANQUE INDOSUEZ To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <41256921.0048318B.00@SNPAR12.> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:05:50 +0200 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9f._:_Re:_[9fans]_mothra?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu The next real hard part is getting the layout (especially tables!) sed | tbl | troff you see the way i'm thinking? From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 08:09:33 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA00128 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 08:09:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA00122 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 08:09:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id OAA05381 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:09:19 +0200 (SAST) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:09:17 +0200 From: Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] Missing ARP reply in 9load Message-ID: <20000719140917.E3081@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Mail-Followup-To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu I had been wondering why the 2ed CPU server managed to load its kernel over the wire when I ran the modified CMU BOOTPd, but not when using ISC's DHCPd. Ted Lemon evidently does not enter the ethernet information from the DHCP requester in the ARP tables, as CMU BOOTPd does (and promptly deletes, which I always thought a little suspicious). Of course, I'm not running the most recent version of the DHCP server, perhaps things have changed in the recent past, but I wonder if 9load should not address this problem, and respond to ARP requests for its freshly acquired IP address, irrespective. I guess standards should be followed here, although I have never really faced this problem, or seen an RFC addressing it. I believe one must allow for the possibility that the TFTP server is running on a different host from the DHCP server, and could not conceivably be expected to know the ethernet address of the TFTP client. Russ? I don't think I am as confortable with Plan 9 sources as to undertake to fix this. This for Rob Presotto, whom I remember frequenting the ISC DHCP mailing list when I still did: I have option option-128 c0:60:20:86; option option-129 c0:60:20:85; in dhcpd.conf and ISC DHCPd seems happy, but I still get prompted for the address of the authenticator and file server once I've net booted 9pcdisk.gz and selected IL. I think this ties up with Forsyth's comments about bootargs=, but I thought one would avoid distributing information in plan9.ini files wherever possible. While asking, what maginc incantantion will persuade a 3ed AUTH server to use itself rather than a third party? ++L From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 08:31:32 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA00570 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 08:31:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA00515 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 08:28:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id OAA05402 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:27:32 +0200 (SAST) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:27:31 +0200 From: Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mothra Message-ID: <20000719142731.F3081@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <E13EZRk-000ElS-0V@anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net>, <200007181831.TAA12571@whitecrow.demon.co.uk> <86vgy33uej.fsf@gollum.esys.ca> <006f01bff176$dab42fe0$62356887@HWTPC> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <006f01bff176$dab42fe0$62356887@HWTPC>; from Howard Trickey on Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 07:45:36AM -0400 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 07:45:36AM -0400, Howard Trickey wrote: > > You're kidding yourself if you think this comes anywhere near solving > the big problems in writing a web browser. Actually fetching the bits > and passing them along is trivial. (And, in any case, fetching the bits > is more closely tied to the logic of the browser than you might think: > you have to deal with redirections, errors, and authorization requests. > And, it is good to be able to start rendering before all of the HTML > has arrived, and certainly before all of the images have arrived.) > I'm sure Howard is as good a judge of difficulty here as any. But there is one key issue that we are a little luckier with: we do not have "clients" to satisfy. We _need_ a browser for mundane operations, but we are not dependent on it, nor are we _here_ hellbent on having our pages delivered exactly like Netscape of IE5. > I wrote the first version of the charon browser with a "webget" filesystem > to serve the pages. I abandoned it in later rewrites, mainly for speed > reasons, but also because it wasn't buying me anything. We only ever > had one web client attached to the damn thing anyway. But that could > change in a Plan 9 environment... > I keep thinking SQUID here. Squid does a hell of a lot of useful work, without having the foggiest idea what it's about. Webget, presumably, was along the same lines. > The first real hard part is lexing/parsing the html in a way that is > forgiving > of errors in exactly the same ways as Netscape and IE. The next real hard > part > is getting the layout (especially tables!) exactly the same as Netscape and > IE. html2ps gets this bit done well enough to be a useful tool. _I_ have little to complain about that. Again, the audience isn't a commercial buyer. > Another hard part is SSL, just because ASN1 is a pain in the butt. No, that can't be hard. Tedious, certainly, but useful. > The hardest hard part is making Javascript objects and methods that behave > exactly the same as Netscape and IE (especially if you want to do something > different with respect to the concepts of "top level windows" or "frames"). > This, and Java, naturally, are bugbears. But we can perhaps refine these as conditions demand. The possibility of adding plug-ins seems the only useful route. Perhaps that is particularly hard, but not yet daunting. > And don't say "it doesn't have to be exactly the same as Netscape and IE" > until you've had users. > You made me say it. We have users, but not clients. Often, all I want is a single page, preferably stripped of images and banner adverts. What I do think is invaluable is a protocol that interacts more intelligently with the proxy server. ++L PS: another point worth making is that IE-5 is far trimmer than Netscape. Netscape carries far too much baggage, even Navigator. I have little idea how this is reflected in Mozilla. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 08:32:20 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA00681 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 08:32:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from crufty.research.bell-labs.com (crufty.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.49]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA00663 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 08:32:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nslocum.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.8.38]) by crufty; Wed Jul 19 08:30:38 EDT 2000 Received: from HWTPC (hwt-pc.cs.bell-labs.com [135.104.53.98]) by nslocum.cs.bell-labs.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA24900771 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 08:30:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <009901bff17d$37d44f10$62356887@HWTPC> From: "Howard Trickey" <howard@research.bell-labs.com> To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <41256921.0048318B.00@SNPAR12.> Subject: [9fans] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_R=E9f._:_Re:_=5B9fans=5D_mothra?= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 08:31:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > sed | tbl | troff > > you see the way i'm thinking? Yes.. Now how do you draw a line from the end of the troff pipe back into tbl in your diagram? You need the full power of the layout engine available to the table processer, as sizing depends on the layout of nested tables in a very insidious way. and the real fun begins when a cell is allocated a certain width, and the contents don't fit. Or when the various width and pad specs of the whole nested set of tables are impossible to satisfy simultaneously. Then you have to "give up" in exactly the same way as Netscape and IE... (I seem to have the phrase burned on my brain, don't I?) And then try to handle images of unknown size arriving later, and try to minimize the number of unnecessary trial layouts. Most of my layout bugs were due to tables. - the fool From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 08:51:24 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA01167 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 08:51:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA01159 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 08:51:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id OAA05431 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:51:07 +0200 (SAST) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:51:06 +0200 From: Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=5B9fans=5D_Re:_R=E9f=2E_:_Re:_=5B9fans=5D_mothra?= Message-ID: <20000719145105.G3081@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <41256921.0048318B.00@SNPAR12.> <009901bff17d$37d44f10$62356887@HWTPC> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <009901bff17d$37d44f10$62356887@HWTPC>; from Howard Trickey on Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 08:31:09AM -0400 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 08:31:09AM -0400, Howard Trickey wrote: > > Yes.. Now how do you draw a line from > the end of the troff pipe back into tbl in > your diagram? You need the full power > of the layout engine available to the table > processer, as sizing depends on the layout > of nested tables in a very insidious way. That seems unavoidable. And you've been there, I haven't :-) But it strikes me as a recursive descent problem that should really have only one solution, or, at worst, scroll bars :-) > and the real fun begins when a cell is allocated > a certain width, and the contents don't fit. > Or when the various width and pad specs > of the whole nested set of tables are > impossible to satisfy simultaneously. Perhaps some scaling knobs in the right places... > Then you have to "give up" in exactly the > same way as Netscape and IE... > (I seem to have the phrase burned on > my brain, don't I?) ... rather than rely on previous foolishness :-) > And then try to handle images of unknown > size arriving later, and try to minimize the > number of unnecessary trial layouts. > Except for the need to match prior art (which I understand and hope to be right in disregarding) I believe we can solve all these problems, if for no other reason that typography is not a recent invention. If we aim at elegance rather than "accuracy" (intentional scare quotes), and we make the product readily available, we may just swing enough decision makers to make a difference. If lynx wasn't so hideously ugly, I believe it would have made its mark in this sense too. > Most of my layout bugs were due to > tables. > How many were actual errors, versus mere divergence from a crooked de facto standard? > - the fool > Your experience is undoubtably invaluable. ++L From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 09:38:47 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA02127 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 09:38:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from 000pri069.bresnanlink.net (cb499392-a.rchstr1.mn.home.com [24.17.34.186]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA02123 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 09:38:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from colin@localhost) by 000pri069.bresnanlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA08090 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 08:41:00 -0400 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 08:41:00 -0400 From: Colin DeVilbiss <crdevilb@mtu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mothra Message-ID: <20000719084059.B1350@000pri069.bresnanlink.net> Reply-To: Colin DeVilbiss <crdevilb@mtu.edu> References: <41256921.0048318B.00@SNPAR12.> <009901bff17d$37d44f10$62356887@HWTPC> <20000719145105.G3081@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <20000719145105.G3081@cackle.proxima.alt.za>; from lucio@proxima.alt.za on Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 02:51:06PM +0200 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > If lynx wasn't so hideously ugly, I believe it would have made its > mark in this sense too. c.f. w3m, a unix curses-based web browser with pretty good table rendering, and one which can render frames by making them look like tables. http://ei5nazha.yz.yamagata-u.ac.jp/~aito/w3m/eng/ speaking from experience, it's good enough for me, but, being tied to cursor-addressability, isn:t a candidate for a direct port by any means. -- Colin DeVilbiss crdevilb@mtu.edu From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 10:54:18 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA03939 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:54:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mail.arl.army.mil (mail.arl.army.mil [158.12.12.14]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA03934 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:54:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from arl.army.mil ([131.218.204.159]) by mail.arl.army.mil (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.3) with ESMTP id 2000071910065412:129801 ; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:06:54 -0400 Message-ID: <3975B618.51CAC05E@arl.army.mil> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:07:20 -0400 From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <gwyn@arl.army.mil> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.8 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] best supported vga card? References: <200007131942.PAA11942@cruiser.nevex.com> <3973B78C.D049BF6B@worldchat.com> X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on mail/arl(Release 5.0.3 |March 21, 2000) at 07/19/2000 10:06:54 AM, Serialize by Router on mail/arl(Release 5.0.3 |March 21, 2000) at 07/19/2000 10:52:41 AM, Serialize complete at 07/19/2000 10:52:41 AM Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Milan Zimmermann wrote: > - is the supported ATI Xpert 98 the AGP version? The one I have is PCI. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 11:16:13 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA04707 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:16:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from barb.worldchat.com (root@barb.wchat.on.ca [204.138.239.65]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA04701 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:16:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldchat.com (asv90-6-p20.wchat.on.ca [204.138.239.20]) by barb.worldchat.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA04459 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:15:57 -0400 Message-ID: <3975C678.DC51893@worldchat.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:17:12 -0400 From: Milan Zimmermann <mzimmerm@worldchat.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] best supported vga card? References: <200007131942.PAA11942@cruiser.nevex.com> <3973B78C.D049BF6B@worldchat.com> <3975B618.51CAC05E@arl.army.mil> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu "Douglas A. Gwyn" wrote: > > Milan Zimmermann wrote: > > - is the supported ATI Xpert 98 the AGP version? > > The one I have is PCI. hmm... I thought by now there is only AGP version of this card ...thanks. I wonder if AGP/PCI makes a difference in terms of Plan 9 support - I hope not ... From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 11:32:30 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05218 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:32:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from linux.borf.com (mach254.borf.com [205.185.197.254] (may be forged)) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05208 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:32:24 -0400 (EDT) From: sah@borf.com Received: from localhost (sah@localhost) by linux.borf.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA32510 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:33:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: linux.borf.com: sah owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:33:32 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] oddity Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10007191028580.32506-100000@linux.borf.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Hello, I've my fileserver and auth/cpu server up now, and am attempting to boot terminals. The terminal sets to boot from ether0, finds its kernel from the network, and starts to boot. It then hangs. So I placed a multitude of print statements in, tracking down the hanging portion of the code. I know this sounds crazy, but it hangs randomly in different parts of the reset ethernet card code. Has anyone previously encountered this and can you give me a trail to head down? Sam -------------------------------------------------------------- Sam Hopkins sah@borf.com "... let us tame the savageness of man, and make gentle the life of this world." From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 11:45:31 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05609 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:45:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05602 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:45:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13Evqs-0003pq-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:33:38 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 15:24:24 GMT From: Belldandy <narumi@tpts5.seed.net.tw> Message-ID: <3975C444.F201F1E6@tpts5.seed.net.tw> Organization: SEEDNet News Service Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] S3 ViRGE/DX? Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu My video card uses the S3 ViRGE/DX chipset. The hardware requirements for Plan9 says it supports ViRGE/GX, GX2, VX, and MX. I wonder if DX is compatible enough to work. Also, Plan9 video chipset support is quite scarce right now..... Is anyone writing other drivers? From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 11:45:44 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05643 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:45:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05607 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:45:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13Evqr-0003pd-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:33:37 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 15:23:55 GMT From: Andy Newman <atrn@zeta.org.au> Message-ID: <slrn8nbgfe.f5m.atrn@juju.bsn> Organization: is for the organised References: <10007170956.ZM905012@marvin>, <20000718105838.R2260@cackle.proxima.alt.za>, <8l1bpt$2ekv$1@pandora.alkar.net> Reply-To: atrn@zeta.org.au Subject: Re: [9fans] mothra Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wladimir Mutel wrote: > Gecko rendering engine is small and almost suitable for embedding, > they said. They lied. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 11:46:04 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05675 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:46:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05596 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:45:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13Evqt-0003pw-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:33:39 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 15:24:40 GMT From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <gwyn@arl.army.mil> Message-ID: <3975C270.FDC16790@arl.army.mil> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200007180814.EAA01467@fuji.rem.cs.cmu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] LXR Plan9 Browser Updated with 6/17 Sources Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Stephen Wynne wrote: > It's under "3.1" at http://offworld.fac.cs.cmu.edu/cgi-bin/9login I note that the entire Plan 9 source tree seems to have been made available via this URL. Was that the intent? From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 11:55:14 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA06224 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:55:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA06220 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:55:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007191555.LAA06220@cse.psu.edu> From: "Russ Cox" <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:54:55 -0400 To: sah@borf.com, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] oddity MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu !/bin/upas/marshal -s 'Re: [9fans] oddity' sah@borf.com is it a 3c905? From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 11:57:47 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA06399 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:57:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA06393 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:57:42 -0400 (EDT) From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200007191557.LAA06393@cse.psu.edu> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:57:37 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] best supported vga card? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Milan Zimmermann <mzimmerm@worldchat.com>: hmm... I thought by now there is only AGP version of this card ...thanks. I wonder if AGP/PCI makes a difference in terms of Plan 9 support - I hope not ... Plan 9 doesn't care. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 11:59:03 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05780 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:47:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05674 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:45:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13Evqr-0003pX-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:33:37 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 15:23:39 GMT From: Andy Newman <atrn@zeta.org.au> Message-ID: <slrn8nbgjm.f5m.atrn@juju.bsn> Organization: is for the organised References: <200007181826.OAA08546@cse.psu.edu>, <20000718151549.B959@cyber-dyne.com>, <963992510.14004.0.nnrp-12.c2de4822@news.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: atrn@zeta.org.au Subject: Re: [9fans] mothra Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Chris Locke wrote: >You are confusing Java and Javascript. >They share 4 letters of their name and that's about all. Oh come on. The operator lexicon is almost identical! -- Chuck Berry lied about the promised land From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 12:00:07 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05765 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:46:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05668 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:45:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13Evqq-0003pL-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:33:36 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 15:23:07 GMT From: mhozjh@mnet.com Message-ID: <8l4evi$bfd$999@news.brutele.be> Organization: Brutele s.c. - 29 Rue de Naples - 1050 Bruxelles - Belgique Subject: [9fans] Re: What you were looking for 8158 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Jack, is http://forward.to/research the site you were looking for ? If it isn't, tell me and i'll continue looking for it. "Jack Davids" <J.Davids@eranet.co> wrote in message news:398F7447.9546DEA7@eranet.c0... > Hey there, I use to know a cool site but I cant > remember the adress any more. Do you still have > it Nadine ? From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 12:01:39 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05753 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:46:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05651 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:45:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13Evqp-0003p3-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:33:35 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 15:22:15 GMT From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <gwyn@arl.army.mil> Message-ID: <3975B72A.36C13C3C@arl.army.mil> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <10007170956.ZM905012@marvin>, <20000718105838.R2260@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] mothra Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Lucio De Re wrote: > Hopefully not. Maybe Opera, but does one really need Netscape's > near-operating system effort just to present a few pictures? Who said "just to present a few pictures"? These days, any Web browser appreciably less functional than Netscape 4.0 is simply unusable with many Web sites. That might be regrettable, but it's the way things have evolved. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 12:02:51 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05744 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:46:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05641 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:45:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13Evqp-0003p9-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:33:35 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 15:22:31 GMT From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <gwyn@arl.army.mil> Message-ID: <3975B7A9.DFA91116@arl.army.mil> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200007181248.IAA26571@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] mothra Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu rob pike wrote: > While that would be better than no browser at all, Mozilla is > just the sort of stand-alone monolith that we're trying to > argue against. And of course, everyone else in the world is > trying to turn their system into a giant web browser. I'd rather > see web access be one aspect of a system in which the pieces > work in concert. That would be nice, but meanwhile life without a Web browser is nearly impossible.. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 12:07:16 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07261 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:07:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA07257 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:07:11 -0400 (EDT) From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200007191607.MAA07257@cse.psu.edu> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:07:10 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] S3 ViRGE/DX? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Belldandy <narumi@tpts5.seed.net.tw> My video card uses the S3 ViRGE/DX chipset. The hardware requirements for Plan9 says it supports ViRGE/GX, GX2, VX, and MX. I wonder if DX is compatible enough to work. I did have a DX card at one point and it worked. That was before various overhauls of the code so your mileage may vary. --jim From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 12:08:21 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07386 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:08:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from indosuez.com ([195.115.40.229]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA07339 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:07:46 -0400 (EDT) From: boyd.roberts@ca-indosuez.com Received: from SNPAR12. (mailer@fw-local [192.168.192.6]) by indosuez.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA22249 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 18:05:22 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by SNPAR12.(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) id 41256921.005E7533 ; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 18:11:41 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: BANQUE INDOSUEZ To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <41256921.005E73E6.00@SNPAR12.> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 18:08:58 +0200 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9f._:_Re:_[9fans]_mothra?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; Boundary="0__=1YFO10HZ1m6CK90iQJSnmXKc2L2OV69wom5q44bpryMUDp7rPfGdttsP" Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu --0__=1YFO10HZ1m6CK90iQJSnmXKc2L2OV69wom5q44bpryMUDp7rPfGdttsP Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable they also share the fact that they're both abortions. =20 (Embedded =20 image moved Andy Newman <atrn@zeta.org.au> =20 to file: 19/07/2000 17:23 =20 pic01411.pcx) =20 =20 Veuillez r=E9pondre =E0 atrn@zeta.org.au; Veuillez r=E9pondre =E0 9fans= @cse.psu.edu Pour: 9fans@cse.psu.edu cc: (ccc: Boyd ROBERTS/EST/DOSI/BANQUE_INDOSUEZ/FR) Objet: Re: [9fans] mothra = --0__=1YFO10HZ1m6CK90iQJSnmXKc2L2OV69wom5q44bpryMUDp7rPfGdttsP Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Chris Locke wrote: >You are confusing Java and Javascript. >They share 4 letters of their name and that's about all. Oh come on. The operator lexicon is almost identical! -- Chuck Berry lied about the promised land --0__=1YFO10HZ1m6CK90iQJSnmXKc2L2OV69wom5q44bpryMUDp7rPfGdttsP Content-type: application/octet-stream; name="pic01411.pcx" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pic01411.pcx" Content-transfer-encoding: base64 CgUBCAAAAABoACwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAABaQABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPH E8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sT zRPHE8MTwhPwEwzIBgzYE8wTxhPDE8IT7hPOBtcTzBPGE8MTE+wTwgbCBwbCEgbCEgbCEsUG1hPL E8YTwxMT6hMMwgYHwgLCAwISwgfEEsMCwwbVE8sTxRPDExPpE8MGAwcCBwMCwhLDB8ISwgISwgLD BtUTyhPFE8MTE+gTwgIHA8ICEw4DDgLDE8USwwLCEMIG1BPKE8UTwxMT5xMCAwcDAg4TDgITwgIS D8ISD8ISBRICEcICwwbUE8oTxRPCExPmEwYCBwMCDgIOwgLDExITEhPCEg8GxgLDBtMMDAfJE8QT whMT5hMGwwITBgMCDhLFEw8SE8ISBgIDwhIDEsMGB9MDxwwHxRPDExPlEwYHAhESAg8CwhMPwhMP xBMPxRIQwgIDAgMCBtMDxwPEDAfDE8IT4RMHwwzCBgLCEhMCDxLIE8MSD8MSwwIQAwIDBgfSDMkD wgPCDAfCExPbEwfGDMIDDAIHERITEhMSwxMPwxMPwxPDEgIDAgMCwwMCBgzREwfHDMYDDMITE9YT B8UMyAMGB8ICBhLDAsYTEhMSExIPwhIHAgcCAwUQAgYRBgfSE8UTB8QMwgMMwhMT0hMHxAzLA8IM BsISDxESExITAw4DxBMSExITwxICBwPCAsMDDMIGB9ITyRMHwwzCExPPEwfDDMkDxQwHwhMGBxIT AhECEwMOAg7DExITDxMPwxIDAgMCBwMCDAYRBgfSE8kTwhPCDMITE8wTB8MMxwPEDMIHxxMGxBLD Ag4DDgIGwg/IEgIDwgIDAgwCEMIGB9ITyRMHDAcMwhMTyhMHwgzGA8MMwgfMEwYHwhLCEAIOAg4C DhDDAhIPxhIFAgXDAgUCEQYH0hPHEwfCDAcPDMITE8gTB8IMxQPDDAfQEwbDEhDEAhAOEA4QwgLG EgcSBhIGBcMCBcIGB9ATB8UMEwfCDA8HDwwHwhMTxhMHwgzEA8MMB9MTBgfCEhADEMICDhAOEMIC EQIDxxIGBwbCAgUCEQYHyxMHxAwHwhMHEwzCEwcPBw8MB8MTE8UTBwzEA8IMB9YTBsQSEAMCA8UC EQIDAgPDEgcSBgfCBgUQAhDCBgfGEwfEDAfGE8INEwzCEw8HwgwHwxPCE8QTBwzDA8IMB9gTBgfE EhACEMYCEQIDAsQSBhLDBsICEALCBgfCEwfDDAfKEwfCDRMHwhPCDAfEE8ITE8MTBwzCA8IMB9oT DBIHwxLDDBEDxQIDAgPDEgYSBgfCBgIQAhAGDAfCEwzDE8MHyRMHwhPCBxMHxRPDExPDEwzCAwwH 3RMGxxICEQPDAgMCA8MSBhIGBwYMBhACEAIGDMMTDBPCB8YTwwfHEwfGE8MTwhPDEwwDDAfeEwYH xxICEQPDAgMCwhIGEgYHBgwGEAIQAsIGB8MTDMYTwwfKEwzGE8MTwhPDE8IMB98TDBLCB8USAgMR xAISB8ISBgcGDAYQBhAGEAYMB8MMB8kTwwfHEwzGE8MTwhPDEwwPwgzfEwYSB8ISB8ISAhECAwID EgcSBwYHBgwGEAYQxgzDD8IHxRPDB8kTBwzGE8MTwhPDEwzDD8QM3BPCBhIGwxIGAhECAwIHBgcG yAzJDxMHzRMHwwwHxxPDE8ITwxMHDMYPxwwH1BMGEgYSBhLLDM4PwwwTDMcTwgfEDAfJE8QTwhMT xBMHwgzLD9sM0w/GDAfDEwzDEwfEDAfLE8YTwxMTxhMHxAztD8gMBgfIE8QMB84TxxPDE8ITyhMH xwzbD8sMEAUMBcIMwgYH1RPKE8UTwxMT0RMH2wwGEAYQBhACBQwFDAUMBgwHBgfWE8sTxRPDExPu EwYMBhAGEAIGDAYMwwYH1xPLE8YTwxMT8BPKBgfYE8wTxhPDExP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPH E8MTwhMMAAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD/ /wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8A AAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A //8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAA AP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA /wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCk gICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vw oKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw //vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzA psrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDA wNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICA wMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACA AICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACA gACA//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP////// --0__=1YFO10HZ1m6CK90iQJSnmXKc2L2OV69wom5q44bpryMUDp7rPfGdttsP-- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 12:11:06 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07625 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:11:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA07608 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:10:56 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <200007191610.MAA07608@cse.psu.edu> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:10:54 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Missing ARP reply in 9load MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-glvbhzjbymjypdiuwfljqyxowy" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-glvbhzjbymjypdiuwfljqyxowy Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit they aren't options 128 and 129, they're suboptions 128 and 129 in the vendorinfo option, 0x2b (43). I believe the correct ISC is: option-43 80:04:<4 bytes of fs addr>:81:04:<4 bytes of auth server addr>; I'm assuming ISC will add the count to this. --upas-glvbhzjbymjypdiuwfljqyxowy Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Jul 19 08:24:53 EDT 2000 Received: from cse.psu.edu ([130.203.3.50]) by plan9; Wed Jul 19 08:24:51 EDT 2000 Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA00168; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 08:09:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by claven.cse.psu.edu (bulk_mailer v1.5); Wed, 19 Jul 2000 08:09:37 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA00128 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 08:09:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA00122 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 08:09:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id OAA05381 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:09:19 +0200 (SAST) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:09:17 +0200 From: Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] Missing ARP reply in 9load Message-ID: <20000719140917.E3081@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Mail-Followup-To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk I had been wondering why the 2ed CPU server managed to load its kernel over the wire when I ran the modified CMU BOOTPd, but not when using ISC's DHCPd. Ted Lemon evidently does not enter the ethernet information from the DHCP requester in the ARP tables, as CMU BOOTPd does (and promptly deletes, which I always thought a little suspicious). Of course, I'm not running the most recent version of the DHCP server, perhaps things have changed in the recent past, but I wonder if 9load should not address this problem, and respond to ARP requests for its freshly acquired IP address, irrespective. I guess standards should be followed here, although I have never really faced this problem, or seen an RFC addressing it. I believe one must allow for the possibility that the TFTP server is running on a different host from the DHCP server, and could not conceivably be expected to know the ethernet address of the TFTP client. Russ? I don't think I am as confortable with Plan 9 sources as to undertake to fix this. This for Rob Presotto, whom I remember frequenting the ISC DHCP mailing list when I still did: I have option option-128 c0:60:20:86; option option-129 c0:60:20:85; in dhcpd.conf and ISC DHCPd seems happy, but I still get prompted for the address of the authenticator and file server once I've net booted 9pcdisk.gz and selected IL. I think this ties up with Forsyth's comments about bootargs=, but I thought one would avoid distributing information in plan9.ini files wherever possible. While asking, what maginc incantantion will persuade a 3ed AUTH server to use itself rather than a third party? ++L --upas-glvbhzjbymjypdiuwfljqyxowy-- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 12:14:09 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05742 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:46:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05632 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:45:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13Evqq-0003pF-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:33:36 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 15:22:50 GMT From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <gwyn@arl.army.mil> Message-ID: <3975BBCD.A2AEE114@arl.army.mil> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10007181354080.30448-100000@sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV>, <3974AD4E.8312954A@mail.usask.ca> Subject: Re: [9fans] Gecko based web browser Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Andrey Mirtchovski wrote: > AFAIK it is tightly coupled with GNOME (they advertise it as a gnome web browser) > which means it exploits the gtk+ libraries. A freebsd port is in the works (if > not completed already) but a plan9 one would require gtk to be ported... And then > we may just as well start porting the entire gnome bloatware... :P GTK+/GLIB would be useful on Plan 9 as part of a porting environment, e.g. in APE. GTK+ can certainly be implemented without GNOME. For Chrissakes, if you insist on rolling all your own software you'll never catch up. Wouldn't it be better to have a functional Web browser on your preferred development platform than to have to keep switching platforms every time you need to access the Web? From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 12:14:41 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05831 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:47:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05725 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:46:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13Ew1M-0003zm-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:44:28 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 15:38:33 GMT From: Andy Newman <atrn@zeta.org.au> Message-ID: <slrn8nbhvl.f5m.atrn@juju.bsn> Organization: is for the organised References: <E13EZRk-000ElS-0V@anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net>, <200007181831.TAA12571@whitecrow.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: atrn@zeta.org.au Subject: Re: [9fans] mothra Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Steve Kilbane wrote: >For doing the translation, perhaps a leaf could be >taken from troff's book, and have subcomponents of the page >translated into something else - the underlying, internal >language. They are - boxes. CSS2 defines a layout mechanism based on boxes with different layout characteristics. A modern browser, e.g, Mozilla, maintains and transforms trees which eventually get processed to draw something. The document is a tree - HTML or XML or something, there is a frame representation (the boxes). Frame generation is controlled by style sheets which also specify other attributes of the presentation. Frames are then processed by the layout machinery to generate actual presenation commands. There are numerous types of frames and numerous rules for how they combine when positioned on some surface. Also remember that HTML specifies interactive elements (and most sites use them) and there's tables thrown in for good measure and they have their own particular needs. JavaScript these days is for manipulating the trees, i.e, dynamic HTML, where they CSS attributes get changed in response to some event. Anyone who's done a page layout program or formatter of any kind will appreciate the complexity of handling modern HTML. If you ignore style sheets it isn't too bad. The modern rules make it harder. At least it gives the processors and memory manufacturers cause for celebration. Can't wait for a fully XML enabled watch, probably generate enough heat to keep my wrist warm. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 12:16:09 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05727 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:46:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05628 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:45:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13Evqr-0003pR-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:33:37 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 15:23:22 GMT From: Jonathan Sergent <sergent@etla.net> Message-ID: <slrn8nbgad.h0h.sergent@c61066-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com> Organization: @Home Network References: <200007190718.DAA24199@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Gecko based web browser Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 07:54:18 GMT, forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk <forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk> wrote: >it's only available via binary plug-ins, and some -- perhaps many -- of those >only work under windows (and sometimes only within >a browser, though that might not be true of realaudio). >by `format' i meant the whole thing. >it seems a bit pointless to implement the transport without being >able to replay the sounds it contains. There are RTP (RFC 1889) payload types for several compression algorithms which are free, and that could be implemented without too much trouble. I'm not sure how hard it is to get Real's server to stream most of them, but Apple's QuickTime streaming stuff (also controlled by RTSP, RFC 2326) supports several standard codecs and standard RTP payload types for audio and video. (They have their proprietary formats as well, but it's not hard to produce content in the free codecs; they just aren't typically as well suited for low bitrate streaming or aren't as high quality). It's not hard to throw together a simple RTSP and RTP client. For some of the easy audio codecs (i.e. uLaw) it should be fairly simple to throw together something to do playback for Plan 9. I think the JPEG stuff should probably be easy with reuse of the existing JPEG display code once you depacketize the stuff. The RTSP part could probably be done in rc. You usually don't have to do much of a browser plugin for these things. There's nothing wrong with showing it in another window. The page does often use an EMBED tag but you could send those to the plumber and have it know to pop up the RTSP client for it. Getting a server for this stuff on Plan 9 is probably a bit more challenging... --jss. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 12:17:46 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05800 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:47:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (exim@mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05689 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:46:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13Evqs-0003pk-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:33:38 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 15:24:09 GMT From: Andy Newman <atrn@zeta.org.au> Message-ID: <slrn8nbg85.f5m.atrn@juju.bsn> Organization: is for the organised References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10007181354080.30448-100000@sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV>, <EO6d5.345524$MB.5507520@news6.giganews.com> Reply-To: atrn@zeta.org.au Subject: Re: [9fans] Gecko based web browser Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Christopher Browne wrote: >Those two "code bases" represent a _mite_ more than 250k of code, and >I suspect that the Plan 9 port would be, um, challenging... (Some sanity at last!) I've been "inside" Mozilla quite a deal and I can guarantee, 1000%, that any port is a decidely non-trivial undertaking. We're talking about millions of lines of code here guys (my build of it on FreeBSD takes up 1.5GB of disk and I leave out half of the bloody thing). And there's pretty much zero documentation on its internals. Most of the comments from people here seem to indicate a very casual acquaintance with Mozilla, either that or a naive belief in the project hype. So here's some tips on a Plan 9 Mozilla port from some one who's been in the guts of the program in question... First thing you need to do is write (or port :) a half decent C++ compiler. Thankfully Mozilla doesn't ask a lot of the library, it has its own (which needs porting). But there's no cheating and going inventing some Plan 9 C++. It has to compile Mozilla which uses mosts of the bits and pieces C++ has to offer. So when you've written or ported your C++ compiler you can think about just getting the build system functional This may need Perl and bash ports and it may be better and easier rewriting the whole thing rather than mash it (high brucee) into Plan 9. The next week can be spent getting the code compiled without errors. There's a few thousand souce files and associated headers, oh, and the IDL compiler will need to be made to work before compiling anything, I guess I just saw that as part of the build system. Linking anything correctly is a bonus at this stage. The lack of shared objects and ld.so may present some issues with the component system and needs a good looking at. But just getting XPCON going will take some doing and there's a little assembler in there which will depend on the compiler's implementation of virtual functions. Needs a good testing session. The remaining platform specific stuff might be quite easy compared to the previous load of work. An implementation of a graphics backend, the portable widgets replace the need for any Plan 9 GUI toolkit to be invented, some sort of embedding shell needs to be implemented (a la the gtk_moz_embed the 250K program uses - the Mozilla shared libs will add many MBs to the real code and its run-time memory footprint measures in the tens to hundreds of MB depending on page complexity). I've left out loads of things that need porting considerations - JavaScript, the thread library, various codecs etc... So get going people, bit of work to do. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 12:30:43 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA08930 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:30:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from minster.cs.york.ac.uk (minster.cs.york.ac.uk [144.32.40.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA08920 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:30:30 -0400 (EDT) From: ianb@cs.york.ac.uk Received: (from ianb@localhost) by pc095.cs.york.ac.uk (8.9.3/client981223.PNT) id RAA24021; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 17:19:36 +0100 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 17:19:36 +0100 Message-Id: <200007191619.RAA24021@pc095.cs.york.ac.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] S3 ViRGE/DX? Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu We tried a DX. We got the graphics working easily, but the cursor didn't work properly -- had 2 stripes about 100x300 pixels below it. On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:07:10 -0400 owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu wrote: >Belldandy <narumi@tpts5.seed.net.tw> > My video card uses the S3 ViRGE/DX chipset. The hardware > requirements for Plan9 says it supports ViRGE/GX, GX2, VX, and MX. > I wonder if DX is compatible enough to work. > >I did have a DX card at one point and it worked. That was before various >overhauls of the code so your mileage may vary. > >--jim From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 12:31:16 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA08971 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:31:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from bromine.myriadgate.net (openbsd.myriadgate.net [139.142.42.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA08940 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:30:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 21340 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2000 16:27:19 -0000 Received: from xenon.myriadgate.net (HELO mail.usask.ca) (andrey@192.168.120.7) by bromine.myriadgate.net with SMTP; 19 Jul 2000 16:27:19 -0000 Message-ID: <3975D73D.1661143B@mail.usask.ca> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:28:45 -0600 From: Andrey Mirtchovski <aam396@mail.usask.ca> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.11 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Gecko based web browser References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10007181354080.30448-100000@sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV> <3974AD4E.8312954A@mail.usask.ca> <3975BBCD.A2AEE114@arl.army.mil> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu "Douglas A. Gwyn" wrote: > For Chrissakes, if you insist on rolling all your own software you'll > never catch up. Wouldn't it be better to have a functional Web > browser on your preferred development platform than to have to keep > switching platforms every time you need to access the Web? It was a joke.. :) Anyway, I am morally oposed to Gnome for I love simple things and detest eye candy (unless it's a game or a screeensaver, which are *supposed* to be pretty :) yes, you are right, there is simply no way all the software for plan9 could be written from scratch, but on the other hand if the most importand and frequently used pieces of software are imported from other OSs, we would hardly be able to stick with the plan9 look and feel... (I like vi, I use vi, I am productive with vi, I wouldn't want to see vi ported to plan9, simply because it doesn't fit too well with the system...) Ah, but what I say does not matter much, since I am a newcomer :) Let me learn more about P9 before making more statements like the above... regards: andrey From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 13:32:22 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA10914 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 13:32:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from marge.cyber-dyne.com (root@marge.cyber-dyne.com [207.189.172.1]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA10904 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 13:32:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cyber-dyne.com (IDENT:root@rac0L.cyber-dyne.com [207.189.172.171]) by marge.cyber-dyne.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA10716 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 09:59:27 -0700 Received: (from randolph@localhost) by cyber-dyne.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA05574 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 09:59:25 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 09:59:25 -0700 From: Randolph Fritz <randolph@cyber-dyne.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mothra Message-ID: <20000719095925.A5544@cyber-dyne.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu A few thoughts: It occurs to me that the "grail" browser, written mostly in Python and incomplete, might be a good candidate for Plan 9 usage. Maybe... There was also, in the acme paper I read, a brief mention of making acme display other data types than plain text. Did anything ever come of that? -- Randolph Fritz Eugene, Oregon, USA From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 13:32:30 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA10930 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 13:32:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from marge.cyber-dyne.com (root@marge.cyber-dyne.com [207.189.172.1]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA10906 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 13:32:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cyber-dyne.com (IDENT:root@rac0L.cyber-dyne.com [207.189.172.171]) by marge.cyber-dyne.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA10490 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 09:47:41 -0700 Received: (from randolph@localhost) by cyber-dyne.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA05513 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 09:47:40 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 09:47:39 -0700 From: Randolph Fritz <randolph@cyber-dyne.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Gecko based web browser Message-ID: <20000719094739.A5457@cyber-dyne.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10007181354080.30448-100000@sch1.NCTR.FDA.GOV> <3974AD4E.8312954A@mail.usask.ca> <3975BBCD.A2AEE114@arl.army.mil> <3975D73D.1661143B@mail.usask.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <3975D73D.1661143B@mail.usask.ca>; from aam396@mail.usask.ca on Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 10:28:45AM -0600 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 10:28:45AM -0600, Andrey Mirtchovski wrote: > > Anyway, I am morally oposed to Gnome for I love simple things and > detest eye candy (unless it's a game or a screeensaver, which are > *supposed* to be pretty :) > "Less is more."--Mies van der Rohe, 1930? "Less is a bore."--Robert Venturi, 1970? -- Randolph Fritz Eugene, Oregon, USA From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 13:45:40 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA12013 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 13:45:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA12006 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 13:45:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id TAA05752 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 19:45:24 +0200 (SAST) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 19:45:23 +0200 From: Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Missing ARP reply in 9load Message-ID: <20000719194522.H3081@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200007191610.MAA07608@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <200007191610.MAA07608@cse.psu.edu>; from presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com on Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 12:10:54PM -0400 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 12:10:54PM -0400, presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > > they aren't options 128 and 129, they're suboptions 128 and 129 in > the vendorinfo option, 0x2b (43). I believe the correct ISC is: > > option-43 80:04:<4 bytes of fs addr>:81:04:<4 bytes of auth server addr>; > > I'm assuming ISC will add the count to this. The format I got to work, eventually, is: option vendor-encapsulated-options 80:04:<4 bytes of fs addr>:81:04:<4 bytes of auth server addr>; Thanks, Rob, for the help. ++L From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 14:15:36 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA12939 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:15:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from new.borf.com (new.borf.com [205.185.197.9]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA12925 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:15:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from largepete (mach111.borf.com [205.185.197.111] (may be forged)) by new.borf.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA21557 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:08:49 -0400 (EDT) From: "Peter LeBlond" <pdl@borf.com> To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: RE: [9fans] oddity Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:15:08 -0400 Message-ID: <GKEALLACAPMJGFCPADEGOEFMCDAA.pdl@borf.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <200007191555.LAA06220@cse.psu.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu No, the 3c509b EtherLink. We had also tried initially with an Intel 82559 card but with similar results. pdl@borf.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu [mailto:owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu]On Behalf Of Russ Cox Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2000 11:55 AM To: sah@borf.com; 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] oddity !/bin/upas/marshal -s 'Re: [9fans] oddity' sah@borf.com is it a 3c905? From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 14:28:58 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA13444 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:28:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA13440 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:28:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id UAA05808; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 20:28:32 +0200 (SAST) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 20:28:31 +0200 From: Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> To: Steve Kotsopoulos <steve@nevex.com> Cc: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Missing ARP reply in 9load Message-ID: <20000719202831.I3081@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Mail-Followup-To: Steve Kotsopoulos <steve@nevex.com>, 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20000719194522.H3081@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <200007191801.OAA08870@akbar.nevex.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <200007191801.OAA08870@akbar.nevex.com>; from Steve Kotsopoulos on Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 02:01:16PM -0400 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 02:01:16PM -0400, Steve Kotsopoulos wrote: > > fyi, presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com is Dave Presotto > rob@plan9.bell-labs.com is Rob Pike > My apologies, I somehow got it into my head that Dave's name was also Rob. I have no idea where it came from and I am highly embarrassed :-( ++L From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 14:29:53 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA13559 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:29:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA13545 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:29:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007191829.OAA13545@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mothra From: "rob pike" <rob@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:29:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > There was also, in the acme paper I read, a brief mention of making > acme display other data types than plain text. Did anything ever come > of that? Beyond some early experiments, no. It's still on my list. -rob From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 14:55:00 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA14400 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:55:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from barb.worldchat.com (root@barb.wchat.on.ca [204.138.239.65]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA14395 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:54:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldchat.com (asv90-6-p20.wchat.on.ca [204.138.239.20]) by barb.worldchat.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA10554 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:54:47 -0400 Message-ID: <3975F9C6.30F6F8D@worldchat.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:56:06 -0400 From: Milan Zimmermann <mzimmerm@worldchat.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] best supported vga card? References: <200007191557.LAA06393@cse.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > > Milan Zimmermann <mzimmerm@worldchat.com>: > hmm... I thought by now there is only AGP version of this card > ...thanks. I wonder if AGP/PCI makes a difference in terms of Plan 9 > support - I hope not ... > > Plan 9 doesn't care. Thanks From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 15:13:54 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA15137 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 15:13:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from smtp4.fas.harvard.edu (root@smtp4.fas.harvard.edu [140.247.30.84]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA15133 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 15:13:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from poodle-pc.deas.harvard.edu (poodle-pc.deas.harvard.edu [140.247.51.128]) by smtp4.fas.harvard.edu with SMTP id PAA08399; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 15:13:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200007191913.PAA08399@smtp4.fas.harvard.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Missing ARP reply in 9load From: "Russ Cox" <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 15:13:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu 9load is single threaded; responding to ARP queries would be fairly difficult. I did think we sent out an ARP broadcast as soon as we got our BOOTP address though, to initialize the caches of anyone who was listening. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 16:25:21 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA17142 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:25:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from lafontaine.cybercable.fr (lafontaine.cybercable.fr [212.198.0.202]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA17137 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:25:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 17064898 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2000 20:25:14 -0000 Received: from r198m3.cybercable.tm.fr (HELO noos.fr) ([195.132.198.3]) (envelope-sender <boyd@noos.fr>) by lafontaine.cybercable.fr (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 19 Jul 2000 20:25:14 -0000 Message-ID: <39760EA1.3030100@noos.fr> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 22:25:05 +0200 From: Boyd Roberts <boyd@noos.fr> Organization: Psycho Basket Case Outpatients Clinic User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; N; Win98; en-US; m14) Netscape6/6.0b1 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Missing ARP reply in 9load References: <200007191913.PAA08399@smtp4.fas.harvard.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Russ Cox wrote: > 9load is single threaded so then 3rd ed has threads? i remember (rob?) saying that plan 9 did not have threads because it was unecessary and beyond the capabilities of most programmers. or am i confused? writing code for windows is basically thread programming. well, it's event driven state stuff like X and that's why it's _extremely_ difficult to write a solid windows program. and then there's the environment: CreateProcess() has 10 args, two of them structs. -- Boyd Roberts boyd@psycho-basket-case.org ``I come over here to kill them cocksuckers, not work for 'em'' -- Moon Dog, _Pettibone's Law_, John Keene From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 16:58:34 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA18275 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:58:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from whitecrow.demon.co.uk (root@whitecrow.demon.co.uk [194.222.126.246]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA18257 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:58:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from whitecrow.demon.co.uk (steve@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by whitecrow.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA15961 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 21:57:26 +0100 Message-Id: <200007192057.VAA15961@whitecrow.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_R=E9f._:_Re:_=5B9fans=5D_mothra?= In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Jul 2000 08:31:09 EDT." <009901bff17d$37d44f10$62356887@HWTPC> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 21:57:26 +0200 From: Steve Kilbane <steve@whitecrow.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > > sed | tbl | troff > > > > you see the way i'm thinking? > > Yes.. Now how do you draw a line from > the end of the troff pipe back into tbl in > your diagram? Well, I'm wondering if that needs to be there in general, anyway. I was thinking about providing user input for forms, and thinking about the browser sending that input to a separate program that reformats the component for the browser. Rather than receiving one-time data and attempting to process it, perhaps the browser can receive data from many streams from the translators, and tell each to reformat as the surrounding cells shuffle. > Most of my layout bugs were due to > tables. s/bugs/problems/ ? how many of them were real bugs, rather than brain-damage from page designers? steve From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 16:58:39 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA18292 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:58:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from whitecrow.demon.co.uk (root@whitecrow.demon.co.uk [194.222.126.246]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA18265 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:58:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from whitecrow.demon.co.uk (steve@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by whitecrow.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA15726 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 21:45:38 +0100 Message-Id: <200007192045.VAA15726@whitecrow.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mothra In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Jul 2000 07:45:36 EDT." <006f01bff176$dab42fe0$62356887@HWTPC> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 21:45:38 +0200 From: Steve Kilbane <steve@whitecrow.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > You're kidding yourself if you think this comes anywhere near solving > the big problems in writing a web browser. I think we're looking at different problems. To me, Plan 9 has always been about stepping back, looking at the whole problem, and solving it with hindsight. Nods to the outside world are at the borders between Plan 9 and reality. Within the bounds of the system, compatibility with less discerning environments is not an issue. Is a web browser an exception? Maybe. Maybe not. On the one hand, the point of the WWW is the first two WWs. On the other hand, I'm sure there aren't that many people who can view every site they visit with impunity. So Plan 9 could only hope to reach a fraction of the sites. 10% of the work might get you 90% of the sites, to a bearable degree. If they're the 90% you want, it might be good enough to save you a reboot. So I'm wondering if you take what the web has to offer - what people try to show, in pages - and revisit it, from a Plan 9 viewpoint. Build a Plan 9-only internal system, and translate at the boundary. > The first real hard part is lexing/parsing the html in a way that is > forgiving > of errors in exactly the same ways as Netscape and IE. I'm not that concerned. If I can work out what the content is supposed to be, that'll do. "Exactly the same" is not an issue. > The next real hard part > is getting the layout (especially tables!) But I'd hope that the internal system wouldn't use HTML (or at least, not the outside version), but something else, more regular and predictable. The table processing would be a single component of the translator. > The hardest hard part is making Javascript objects and methods that behave > exactly the same as Netscape and IE (especially if you want to do something > different with respect to the concepts of "top level windows" or "frames"). Thoroughly unpleasant, yes. I'd be more inclined to live with frames (as a supported concept at the translator) and dump javascript, though. > And don't say "it doesn't have to be exactly the same as Netscape and IE" > until you've had users. But that all depends on the users, doesn't it? I've routinely got Java* turned off. I don't have Flash, Shockwave, IE, Real* players, or any of that rubbish. Personally, I get by without those sites. Others may not be happy with that; they know where the solution lies. The same is true for people who like MS Office, emacs, X, etc. Perhaps this is being overly parochial. Everyone uses the Netscape and IE features we know and loathe. Everyone uses TCP, too. Plan 9 has IL. steve From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 17:10:26 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA18854 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 17:10:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from honk.eecs.harvard.edu (honk.eecs.harvard.edu [140.247.60.101]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA18849 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 17:10:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 7447 invoked by uid 1000); 19 Jul 2000 21:09:59 -0000 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 17:09:59 -0400 From: "William K. Josephson" <wkj@acm.org> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Missing ARP reply in 9load Message-ID: <20000719170959.A29100@honk.eecs.harvard.edu> References: <200007191913.PAA08399@smtp4.fas.harvard.edu> <39760EA1.3030100@noos.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: <39760EA1.3030100@noos.fr>; from boyd@noos.fr on Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 10:25:05PM +0200 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 10:25:05PM +0200, Boyd Roberts wrote: > > 9load is single threaded > so then 3rd ed has threads? i remember (rob?) saying that plan 9 > did not have threads because it was unecessary and beyond the > capabilities of most programmers. or am i confused? I think you have mis-remembered slightly: >From: "rob pike" <rob@plan9.bell-labs.com> >Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 future (Was: Re: Are the Infernospaces gone?) >Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 00:33:33 -0400 >To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > >Alef was dropped because it was too laborious to maintain two compilers >and sets of libraries across an ever-growing list of architectures. The >concurrent programming aspects of Alef were simulated by a new thread >library for C, and that is what we use now. The syntax isn't as pretty but >the semantics is very close. > >-rob From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 17:25:23 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA19379 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 17:25:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mallorn.advancedsolutions.com (root@mallorn.advancedsolutions.com [216.3.74.86]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA19375 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 17:25:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucho@localhost) by mallorn.advancedsolutions.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA07288 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 17:25:00 -0400 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 17:25:00 -0400 From: Latchesar Ionkov <lucho@gmx.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] SMC EtherEZ (SMC91cXX) driver Message-ID: <20000719172500.A7272@gmx.net> Reply-To: Latchesar Ionkov <lucho@gmx.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3i Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Hi, Recently I installed Plan9 on my laptop. Unfortunatelly my PCMCIA network card (SMC EtherEZ 8020) was not supported so I had to write a driver for it by myself. It's working fine but ... there is a small problem with the driver 'license'. My wish is to release it under the plan9 license. However since I couldn't find any manual for the chip (SMC91c94) I looked the Linux driver code. I am not sure whether I am obliged to GPL the driver since I used the Linux code only as a reference. Any thoughts? Is there a problem with including the driver in Plan9 if I release it under GPL? (this is considered a last resort). Thanks, Lucho From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 17:41:36 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA19806 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 17:41:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from lafontaine.cybercable.fr (lafontaine.cybercable.fr [212.198.0.202]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA19801 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 17:41:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 17212251 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2000 21:41:24 -0000 Received: from r198m3.cybercable.tm.fr (HELO noos.fr) ([195.132.198.3]) (envelope-sender <boyd@noos.fr>) by lafontaine.cybercable.fr (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 19 Jul 2000 21:41:24 -0000 Message-ID: <397620B2.7020505@noos.fr> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 23:42:10 +0200 From: Boyd Roberts <boyd@noos.fr> Organization: Psycho Basket Case Outpatients Clinic User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; N; Win98; en-US; m14) Netscape6/6.0b1 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mothra References: <200007192045.VAA15726@whitecrow.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Steve Kilbane wrote: > To me, Plan 9 has always been about stepping back, looking at the > whole problem, and solving it with hindsight. the stuff that came out of the unix room always struck me as distilling it down to the essense; doing more with less. i don't think i've ever seen that anywhere else (well, maybe PARC, but that's a bit before my time). -- Boyd Roberts boyd@psycho-basket-case.org ``I come over here to kill them cocksuckers, not work for 'em'' -- Moon Dog, _Pettibone's Law_, John Keene From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Jul 19 19:51:44 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA22241 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 19:51:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from linux.borf.com (mach252.borf.com [205.185.197.252] (may be forged)) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA22236 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 19:51:38 -0400 (EDT) From: sah@borf.com Received: from localhost (sah@localhost) by linux.borf.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00391 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 18:52:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: linux.borf.com: sah owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 18:52:45 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Gecko based web browser In-Reply-To: <3975D73D.1661143B@mail.usask.ca> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10007191849400.387-100000@linux.borf.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu ... of course, if we never rewrite anything from scratch...how will we ever find out what we did wrong, the first time? Rewriting apps isn't simply an exercise in futility. It provides the opportunity to incorporate new concepts, sans hacking old code. On Wed, 19 Jul 2000, Andrey Mirtchovski wrote: > "Douglas A. Gwyn" wrote: > > > For Chrissakes, if you insist on rolling all your own software you'll > > never catch up. Wouldn't it be better to have a functional Web > > browser on your preferred development platform than to have to keep > > switching platforms every time you need to access the Web? > > It was a joke.. :) > > Anyway, I am morally oposed to Gnome for I love simple things and detest eye candy > (unless it's a game or a screeensaver, which are *supposed* to be pretty :) > > yes, you are right, there is simply no way all the software for plan9 could be written > from scratch, but on the other hand if the most importand and frequently used pieces > of software are imported from other OSs, we would hardly be able to stick