From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 1 01:23:18 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 1 01:23:18 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 30967 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2001 01:31:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30963 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 01:31:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 01:31:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4751B19A33; Thu, 31 May 2001 12:31:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0CC9019A2D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 31 May 2001 12:30:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15294 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 31 May 2001 12:30:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id MAA23448; Thu, 31 May 2001 12:30:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200105311630.MAA23448@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Subject: [9fans] Re: Thinknic and plan9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 12:30:04 -0400 (EDT) In article you write: >I ran across this inexpensive little diskless (it has a CD-ROM) x86 >box at www.thinknic.com and I think might make an excellent Plan 9 >terminal. Has anyone tried it? Hmm, I started looking into this more, because such things interest me. The thing is certainly cheap ($199, plus shipping and tax). Unfortunately, most of the hardware is unsupported. Well, okay, just about everything is unsupported. The ethernet chip is, I believe, an SiS900. A Plan 9 driver doesn't exist for this specific chip; I don't know if any of the existing drivers would run it. However, a data sheet on the chip is available from the SiS web site, and there are Linux and BSD drivers from which to build. I'll see if I can't get something going. The video chip is an SiS5597/98. I know nothing about it, except that apparantly it only has 512K of RAM on it. XFree86 seems to have a driver for it (complete with acceleration and the whole bit), but that's about all I know. The 512KB of RAM is a little confusing; it doesn't seem like enough to run it at the resolution and color depth stated on the thinknic web page; maybe it steals RAM from the host. I don't know. I couldn't find a data sheet on it, but I didn't look that hard. The audio chip is a C-Media device (CMI8738) which also drives the modem. I can't imagine that it's supported, but again, a Linux driver exists. I haven't even attempted to look for a data sheet. Other devices in the box are an SiS 7001 USB controller (unsupported), and an SiS 85C5513 IDE controller. I don't know much about the IDE controller, or its software interface, so I can't say wether or not it's supported. The device also has a CD-ROM and a 4MB IDE flash disk. Yes, that's four megabytes; I gather they only support using it to hold things like netscape bookmarks, etc. It'd certainly be big enough to hold a Plan 9 kernel and bootstrap. I gather that the thing uses the CD-ROM for booting and housing the operating system (Linux). Booting off of the flash would free that up, and make it useful for other stuff. If one could access the flash as a normal, if somewhat small, IDE device, and the IDE controller is supported, then that more or less takes care of that problem. Apparantly, some people have had success with putting laptop hard drives into these units, but it involves hardware hacking. Since they're so cheap, I decided to ship eatting out for the next few days and order one. It should be here on the 6th of June. In the mean time, I'll try and build device drivers for the ethernet and video chips; maybe I'll have something ready for testing by the time the unit gets here. btw- I think that the addition of yet another SB-incompatable audio chip to the mix underscores the need to divorce the kernel and external audio interfaces from the soundblaster family. Having a modularized framework for audio devices, much the way the current ethernet interface has been modularized, and moving towards a standard such as PCM for transfer of audio data into and out of the kernel, would be a good step towards doing that. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 1 01:25:16 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 1 01:25:16 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 30982 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2001 01:33:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30978 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 01:33:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 01:33:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A779219A37; Thu, 31 May 2001 12:33:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pali.cps.cmich.edu (pali.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.131.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D207199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 31 May 2001 12:32:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ishwar@localhost) by pali.cps.cmich.edu (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4VGXui10189 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 31 May 2001 12:33:56 -0400 From: Ish Rattan To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] vncviewer ?? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 12:33:56 -0400 (EDT) A vncviewer connection takes a second or less to a Linux box BUTR it takes a little more than 10 minutes to get the password prompt in vncviewer connection to a FreeBSD-4.3 box? Either system is not running any firewalls.. A reinstall of FreeBSD does not help. - ishwar From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 1 01:28:26 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 1 01:28:26 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 31008 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2001 01:36:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31004 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 01:36:40 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 01:36:40 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EE90219A3A; Thu, 31 May 2001 12:36:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E720919A2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 31 May 2001 12:35:58 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Thinknic and plan9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-xzcfsvjfpvxxgbfgfimotkwwbk" Message-Id: <20010531163558.E720919A2C@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 12:35:57 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-xzcfsvjfpvxxgbfgfimotkwwbk Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is BSD trying to reverse lookup the address of the Plan 9 box or something similar? --upas-xzcfsvjfpvxxgbfgfimotkwwbk Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu May 31 12:31:34 EDT 2001 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu May 31 12:31:33 EDT 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 816B619A30; Thu, 31 May 2001 12:31:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0CC9019A2D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 31 May 2001 12:30:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15294 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 31 May 2001 12:30:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id MAA23448; Thu, 31 May 2001 12:30:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200105311630.MAA23448@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Subject: [9fans] Re: Thinknic and plan9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 12:30:04 -0400 (EDT) In article you write: >I ran across this inexpensive little diskless (it has a CD-ROM) x86 >box at www.thinknic.com and I think might make an excellent Plan 9 >terminal. Has anyone tried it? Hmm, I started looking into this more, because such things interest me. The thing is certainly cheap ($199, plus shipping and tax). Unfortunately, most of the hardware is unsupported. Well, okay, just about everything is unsupported. The ethernet chip is, I believe, an SiS900. A Plan 9 driver doesn't exist for this specific chip; I don't know if any of the existing drivers would run it. However, a data sheet on the chip is available from the SiS web site, and there are Linux and BSD drivers from which to build. I'll see if I can't get something going. The video chip is an SiS5597/98. I know nothing about it, except that apparantly it only has 512K of RAM on it. XFree86 seems to have a driver for it (complete with acceleration and the whole bit), but that's about all I know. The 512KB of RAM is a little confusing; it doesn't seem like enough to run it at the resolution and color depth stated on the thinknic web page; maybe it steals RAM from the host. I don't know. I couldn't find a data sheet on it, but I didn't look that hard. The audio chip is a C-Media device (CMI8738) which also drives the modem. I can't imagine that it's supported, but again, a Linux driver exists. I haven't even attempted to look for a data sheet. Other devices in the box are an SiS 7001 USB controller (unsupported), and an SiS 85C5513 IDE controller. I don't know much about the IDE controller, or its software interface, so I can't say wether or not it's supported. The device also has a CD-ROM and a 4MB IDE flash disk. Yes, that's four megabytes; I gather they only support using it to hold things like netscape bookmarks, etc. It'd certainly be big enough to hold a Plan 9 kernel and bootstrap. I gather that the thing uses the CD-ROM for booting and housing the operating system (Linux). Booting off of the flash would free that up, and make it useful for other stuff. If one could access the flash as a normal, if somewhat small, IDE device, and the IDE controller is supported, then that more or less takes care of that problem. Apparantly, some people have had success with putting laptop hard drives into these units, but it involves hardware hacking. Since they're so cheap, I decided to ship eatting out for the next few days and order one. It should be here on the 6th of June. In the mean time, I'll try and build device drivers for the ethernet and video chips; maybe I'll have something ready for testing by the time the unit gets here. btw- I think that the addition of yet another SB-incompatable audio chip to the mix underscores the need to divorce the kernel and external audio interfaces from the soundblaster family. Having a modularized framework for audio devices, much the way the current ethernet interface has been modularized, and moving towards a standard such as PCM for transfer of audio data into and out of the kernel, would be a good step towards doing that. - Dan C. --upas-xzcfsvjfpvxxgbfgfimotkwwbk-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 1 01:35:16 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 1 01:35:16 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 31056 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2001 01:43:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31052 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 01:43:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 01:43:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0946B19A3D; Thu, 31 May 2001 12:43:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A08FE19A2D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 31 May 2001 12:42:04 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010531164204.A08FE19A2D@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] slow vncviewer Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 12:42:02 -0400 As you might have guessed, that response didn't go with the attached message. I was asking whether the slow connect to the BSD vncserver was due to BSD trying to verify the address of the connecting machine. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 1 02:11:18 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 1 02:11:18 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 31351 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2001 02:19:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31347 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 02:19:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 02:19:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3B60719A3D; Thu, 31 May 2001 13:19:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 07444199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 31 May 2001 13:18:19 -0400 (EDT) From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Thinknic and plan9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010531171819.07444199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 13:18:17 -0400 On Thu May 31 12:31:34 EDT 2001, cross@math.psu.edu wrote: > In article you write: > >I ran across this inexpensive little diskless (it has a CD-ROM) x86 > >box at www.thinknic.com and I think might make an excellent Plan 9 > >terminal. Has anyone tried it? > > Hmm, I started looking into this more, because such things interest > me. The thing is certainly cheap ($199, plus shipping and tax). > Unfortunately, most of the hardware is unsupported. Well, okay, just > about everything is unsupported. Unsupported by current software can be fixed. Inadequate hardware that's fixed (the video hardware) can't. Oracle have been trying to market this box under various guises for something like 5 years, they should give up. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 1 04:36:15 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 1 04:36:15 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 32381 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2001 04:44:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32377 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 04:44:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 04:44:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5366219A43; Thu, 31 May 2001 15:44:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B7DD519A33 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 31 May 2001 15:43:42 -0400 (EDT) From: dmr@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Thinknic and plan9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010531194342.B7DD519A33@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 15:43:39 -0400 > Oracle have been trying to market this box under various > guises for something like 5 years, they should give up. As a bit of amusement, Oracle was very close (back in fairly early Lucent Inferno BU time) to licensing Inferno for this or similar boxes. It was close enough that Ellison and Rich McGinn had dinner to shake hands over the deal. Then, quite suddenly, the deal fell apart, preumably not because the dinner went poorly. Dennis From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 1 04:44:15 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 1 04:44:15 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 32431 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2001 04:52:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32427 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 04:52:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 04:52:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 99BBD19A45; Thu, 31 May 2001 15:52:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rex.eecs.tulane.edu (rex.eecs.tulane.edu [129.81.132.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7774B19A0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 31 May 2001 15:51:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from (mlf@proteus [129.81.132.16]) by rex.eecs.tulane.edu for <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Thu, 31 May 2001 14:51:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost by proteus.eecs.tulane.edu; Thu, 31 May 2001 14:51:14 -0500 (CDT) From: Mike Fletcher X-Sender: mlf@proteus To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: <20010531194342.B7DD519A33@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Install problems Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 14:51:14 -0500 (CDT) I am having trouble trying to install Plan9 rel.3 on my laptop. It's a TI Extensa 565, 75MHz Pentium with 40M ram and a free 500MB area on the disk (the first 250MB belongs to MS-DOS.) My install disk is from the 12 Apr 01 disk image. Here's what happens: Insert disk and power on. PBS works ok apm is found -- is this the power management Bios ? loader find fd0!dos!plan9.ini dev A0 1F0 is found -- must be the IDE disk ctlr 9PCFLOP.GZ is found and unzipped (many dots followed by sizes looks like the old text+data+bss stuff) loader finds cpu0, #y0 (an i82365SL), and dev A0 again and says: 5830 free pages 23320K bytes 114520K swap root is from offers local!/bzroot as the default - I take it. next comes kfs...boot: nop... and then Different errors bunzip2: decompress failed sometimes kfs: premature eof reading /386/bin/ip/ppp <---- boot fatal: read nop: file does not exist panic: boot process died: unknown but always this ktrace /kernel/path 801064e2 80007ce4 <---- address [a hex dump follows this -- and finally...] cpu0: exiting And the machine freezes. I have rebuilt the diskette several times and tried it in other systems and get either some version of a rio screen, or at least an rc % prompt. Possible problem may be that my Bios shadows the system ROM to F605-FFFF, and there is no way to disable shadowing in the Bios setup. Am I just outta luck? I have a working Plan9 system on a desktop machine (built from an earlier version of 9disk.9fd) if that could help me debug things; but the laptop has no network card. I'd appreciate any ideas you may have on how to get the install working. Thanks, -Mike Fletcher Sys Admin - EECS Tulane University From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 1 04:49:16 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 1 04:49:16 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 32473 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2001 04:57:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32469 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 04:57:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 04:57:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7906B19A48; Thu, 31 May 2001 15:57:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from real.com (prognet.com [205.219.198.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1793219A0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 31 May 2001 15:56:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skipt ([172.21.104.107]) by real.com (8.9.2/8.9.0) with SMTP id MAA18324 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 31 May 2001 12:56:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20010531130604.018558c0@mail.real.com> X-Sender: skipt@mail.real.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Fariborz 'Skip' Tavakkolian" Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Thinknic and plan9 In-Reply-To: <20010531194342.B7DD519A33@mail.cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 13:06:04 -0700 It is surprising to know that anyone could hold dinner down in presence of Ellison. At 03:43 PM 5/31/01 -0400, you wrote: > > Oracle have been trying to market this box under various > > guises for something like 5 years, they should give up. > >As a bit of amusement, Oracle was very close (back in fairly >early Lucent Inferno BU time) to licensing Inferno for >this or similar boxes. It was close enough that Ellison >and Rich McGinn had dinner to shake hands over the deal. >Then, quite suddenly, the deal fell apart, preumably >not because the dinner went poorly. > > Dennis > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 1 04:49:56 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 1 04:49:56 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 32486 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2001 04:58:11 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32482 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 04:58:11 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 04:58:11 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E526E19A4B; Thu, 31 May 2001 15:57:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 982D119A46 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 31 May 2001 15:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17793 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 31 May 2001 15:56:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id PAA24353; Thu, 31 May 2001 15:56:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200105311956.PAA24353@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Thinknic and plan9 Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <20010531171819.07444199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 15:56:06 -0400 (EDT) In article <20010531171819.07444199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> you write: >Unsupported by current software can be fixed. Yes. >Inadequate hardware that's fixed (the video hardware) can't. The Linux people don't seem to be having a problem using the inadequate video hardware at high resolution and with many colors. (Of course, they probably have 80 billion lines of code to support it, but that's another matter all together.) >Oracle have been trying to market this box under various >guises for something like 5 years, they should give up. Yeah, so should those pesky timesharing people. Batch mode computing is the only thing which is efficient enough to make effective use of all computers, which are big, expensive centralized things with multi-million dollar pricetags. Oh! Wait a minute....wrong century. :-) The reason I think Oracle hasn't been very successful to date is simply marketing; particularly the Microsoft fueled belief on the part of consumers that they ``need'' a PC. They don't. My Mom certainly doesn't, and she's the type of user this thing is targetted to. - Dan ``It's the Marketing, Stupid!'' C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 1 05:07:19 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 1 05:07:19 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 32626 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2001 05:15:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32622 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 05:15:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 05:15:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 037F019A16; Thu, 31 May 2001 16:15:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5811E199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 31 May 2001 16:14:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20706 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 31 May 2001 16:14:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id QAA24479; Thu, 31 May 2001 16:14:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200105312014.QAA24479@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Thinknic and plan9 Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <20010531194342.B7DD519A33@mail.cse.psu.edu> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 16:14:07 -0400 (EDT) In article <20010531194342.B7DD519A33@mail.cse.psu.edu> you write: >As a bit of amusement, Oracle was very close (back in fairly >early Lucent Inferno BU time) to licensing Inferno for >this or similar boxes. It was close enough that Ellison >and Rich McGinn had dinner to shake hands over the deal. >Then, quite suddenly, the deal fell apart, preumably >not because the dinner went poorly. McGinn questioned Ellison's divinity? - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 1 05:41:18 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 1 05:41:18 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 369 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2001 05:49:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 363 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 05:49:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 05:49:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 483BD19A1C; Thu, 31 May 2001 16:49:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id DF5B1199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 31 May 2001 16:48:29 -0400 (EDT) From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Thinknic and plan9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010531204829.DF5B1199E9@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 16:48:27 -0400 On Thu May 31 15:58:06 EDT 2001, cross@math.psu.edu wrote: > In article <20010531171819.07444199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> you write: > >Unsupported by current software can be fixed. > > Yes. > > >Inadequate hardware that's fixed (the video hardware) can't. > > The Linux people don't seem to be having a problem using the inadequate > video hardware at high resolution and with many colors. i was going by the specs you published (512KB video memory - that won't even get you to 1024x768x8), but it's clearly better than that from the little info on the web page. i've nothing against it in principle, i'd love to replace this hot and noisy pc under my desk with something that does only the things i need - 100base-t and a display. but if the display is limited to 1024x768 or less then i'm better off using my laptop. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 1 05:42:16 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 1 05:42:16 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 391 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2001 05:50:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 387 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 05:50:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 05:50:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8A02619A27; Thu, 31 May 2001 16:50:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post.mail.nl.demon.net (post-11.mail.nl.demon.net [194.159.73.21]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4EC1019A20 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 31 May 2001 16:49:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [195.11.248.215] (helo=localhostnl) by post.mail.nl.demon.net with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 155ZNX-000Mik-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 31 May 2001 20:49:11 +0000 Received: from wstan by localhostnl with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 155bAN-00006j-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 31 May 2001 22:43:43 +0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20010531224343.A389@localhostnl.demon.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i From: William Staniewicz Subject: [9fans] To upgrade or not to upgrade ... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 22:43:43 +0000 To upgrade or not to upgrade. That is the question. Here is the output from my wrap/info plan9: plan9 (full package as of Wed Jan 31 05:22:50 EST 2001) pkg 964893367: Plan 9 from Bell Labs — Third Edition pkgupd 971556349 updating 961264382: Plan 9 from Bell Labs — Third Edition pkgupd 971810713 updating 971556349: Plan 9 from Bell Labs — Third Edition pkgupd 980936570 updating 971556349: Plan 9 - wiki software I know I have missed some upgrades lately but I noticed on the list what I thought were some bugs with people that did the upgrade. Should I upgrade now or hold back? If I should, which packages should I wrap/inst? -- Bill William Staniewicz Amsterdam, NL From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 1 05:43:24 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 1 05:43:24 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 406 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2001 05:51:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 402 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 05:51:40 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 05:51:40 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4770519A3E; Thu, 31 May 2001 16:50:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post.mail.nl.demon.net (post-11.mail.nl.demon.net [194.159.73.21]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0606D19A23 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 31 May 2001 16:49:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [195.11.248.215] (helo=localhostnl) by post.mail.nl.demon.net with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 155ZNg-000Mir-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 31 May 2001 20:49:20 +0000 Received: from wstan by localhostnl with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 155bAX-00006w-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 31 May 2001 22:43:53 +0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20010531224353.B389@localhostnl.demon.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i From: William Staniewicz Subject: [9fans] Fax problem Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 22:43:53 +0000 I never tried faxing before. But when I did try it recently I got this... term% fax 5551212 Someone faxtest.txt rx: can't dial dinar: cs: can't translate address(tcp!dinar!shell) (note: prior to this I did "telco '#t/eia1' as I normally do to set up that feature.) What do I do next to set it up to work? -- Bill William Staniewicz Amsterdam, NL From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 1 05:59:16 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 1 05:59:16 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 528 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2001 06:07:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 524 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 06:07:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 06:07:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3B94919A41; Thu, 31 May 2001 17:07:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 196D5199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 31 May 2001 17:06:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Fax problem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010531210639.196D5199E9@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 17:06:36 -0400 try changing the line in /bin/fax that does rx dinar /sys/lib/fax/faxgoose to simply /sys/lib/fax/faxgoose and see if that clears things up. you need a class 2 modem as well, and those aren't the common ones. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 1 06:00:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 1 06:00:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 538 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2001 06:08:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 534 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 06:08:38 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 06:08:38 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CCF5219A4B; Thu, 31 May 2001 17:08:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (caldo.demon.co.uk [194.222.207.148]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2FBF7199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 31 May 2001 17:07:25 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] To upgrade or not to upgrade ... From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-nheobgzmudgyaiyxfamgqwkmac" Message-Id: <20010531210725.2FBF7199E9@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 22:03:33 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-nheobgzmudgyaiyxfamgqwkmac Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit plan9 (complete as of Wed Mar 28 03:10:32 BST 2001) update 991073352 updating 985745432: ps update update 990896058 updating 985745432: ps update update 989254626 updating 985745432: Plan 9 from Bell Labs — Third Edition update 988250913 updating 985745432: Plan 9 from Bell Labs — Third Edition update 988211642 updating 985745432: Plan 9 from Bell Labs — Third Edition full update 985745432 updating 971556349: Plan 9 from Bell Labs — Third Edition full update 971810713 updating 971556349: Plan 9 from Bell Labs — Third Edition full update 971556349 updating 961264382: Plan 9 from Bell Labs — Third Edition full update 964893367 updating 961264382: Plan 9 from Bell Labs — Third Edition full update 961264382 updating 960391385: Plan 9 from Bell Labs — Third Edition package 960391385: Plan 9 from Bell Labs — Third Edition --upas-nheobgzmudgyaiyxfamgqwkmac Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from finch-punt-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.36]) by lavoro; Thu May 31 21:49:30 BST 2001 Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 991342304:10:06730:5; Thu, 31 May 2001 20:51:44 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1005377; 31 May 2001 20:50 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8A02619A27; Thu, 31 May 2001 16:50:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post.mail.nl.demon.net (post-11.mail.nl.demon.net [194.159.73.21]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4EC1019A20 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 31 May 2001 16:49:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [195.11.248.215] (helo=localhostnl) by post.mail.nl.demon.net with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 155ZNX-000Mik-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 31 May 2001 20:49:11 +0000 Received: from wstan by localhostnl with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 155bAN-00006j-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 31 May 2001 22:43:43 +0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20010531224343.A389@localhostnl.demon.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i From: William Staniewicz Subject: [9fans] To upgrade or not to upgrade ... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 22:43:43 +0000 To upgrade or not to upgrade. That is the question. Here is the output from my wrap/info plan9: plan9 (full package as of Wed Jan 31 05:22:50 EST 2001) pkg 964893367: Plan 9 from Bell Labs Third Edition pkgupd 971556349 updating 961264382: Plan 9 from Bell Labs Third Edition pkgupd 971810713 updating 971556349: Plan 9 from Bell Labs Third Edition pkgupd 980936570 updating 971556349: Plan 9 - wiki software I know I have missed some upgrades lately but I noticed on the list what I thought were some bugs with people that did the upgrade. Should I upgrade now or hold back? If I should, which packages should I wrap/inst? -- Bill William Staniewicz Amsterdam, NL --upas-nheobgzmudgyaiyxfamgqwkmac-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 1 06:01:14 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 1 06:01:14 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 552 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2001 06:09:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 548 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 06:09:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 06:09:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5C6FE19A4E; Thu, 31 May 2001 17:08:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id D5634199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 31 May 2001 17:07:47 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Fax problem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-udzfgvefgbqfdfjccpljzdnqwv" Message-Id: <20010531210747.D5634199E9@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 17:07:46 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-udzfgvefgbqfdfjccpljzdnqwv Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oops, that's local configuration that we shouldn't have let slip out. The directory /sys/lib/fax and the command /rc/bin/fax are full of local refrences. This needs a manual. The machine that has the modem attached should be running a telco with the appropriate dev in the command line. For example, out system dinar has the following in it's cpurc: telco -vs 19200 /dev/eia011 & # FAX Then you should have a cron entry that kicks it ever now and then just like for mail. For example, we have in /cron/upas/cron: 5,15,25,35,45,55 * * * * dinar /sys/lib/fax/faxtickle Now edit /rc/bin/fax and everything in /sys/lib/fax to reflect your local environment. Basicly change everything that mentions emelie into a pointer to your file server. If you only have one system, then just remove from /rc/bin/fax the line: rx dinar /sys/lib/fax/faxgoose with upas/runq -t3 /mail/faxoutqueue /sys/lib/fax/faxtry < /dev/null > /dev/null >[2=1] & A bit of a pain all around. We never got around to making this generic and it fell through the cracks in the release. This is part of why releases are hard. We (i.e. Rob) usually have to go over the system with a fine tooth comb to comb out all this local lice. --upas-udzfgvefgbqfdfjccpljzdnqwv Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu May 31 16:51:36 EDT 2001 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu May 31 16:51:35 EDT 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 468D919A3C; Thu, 31 May 2001 16:50:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post.mail.nl.demon.net (post-11.mail.nl.demon.net [194.159.73.21]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0606D19A23 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 31 May 2001 16:49:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [195.11.248.215] (helo=localhostnl) by post.mail.nl.demon.net with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 155ZNg-000Mir-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 31 May 2001 20:49:20 +0000 Received: from wstan by localhostnl with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 155bAX-00006w-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 31 May 2001 22:43:53 +0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20010531224353.B389@localhostnl.demon.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i From: William Staniewicz Subject: [9fans] Fax problem Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 22:43:53 +0000 I never tried faxing before. But when I did try it recently I got this... term% fax 5551212 Someone faxtest.txt rx: can't dial dinar: cs: can't translate address(tcp!dinar!shell) (note: prior to this I did "telco '#t/eia1' as I normally do to set up that feature.) What do I do next to set it up to work? -- Bill William Staniewicz Amsterdam, NL --upas-udzfgvefgbqfdfjccpljzdnqwv-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 1 06:02:37 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 1 06:02:37 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 590 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2001 06:10:52 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 586 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 06:10:52 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 06:10:52 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 28D1F199E9; Thu, 31 May 2001 17:09:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 647FA19A50 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 31 May 2001 17:08:41 -0400 (EDT) From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Thinknic and plan9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010531210841.647FA19A50@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 17:08:38 -0400 i think the 512kb video memory is a lie. it sounds like the sis all-in-one board that leeches video memory from the system memory. russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 1 06:51:15 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 1 06:51:15 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 950 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2001 06:59:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 946 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 06:59:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 06:59:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6909219A4B; Thu, 31 May 2001 17:59:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pali.cps.cmich.edu (pali.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.131.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DA92A19A41 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 31 May 2001 17:58:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ishwar@localhost) by pali.cps.cmich.edu (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4VLxmw10431 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 31 May 2001 17:59:48 -0400 From: Ish Rattan To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] slow vncviewer In-Reply-To: <20010531164204.A08FE19A2D@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 17:59:48 -0400 (EDT) On Thu, 31 May 2001 presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > As you might have guessed, that response didn't go with the attached message. > I was asking whether the slow connect to the BSD vncserver was due to > BSD trying to verify the address of the connecting machine. I have no way to tell as the vncserver/viewer are available as a pre-compiled package. Is there a way to figure it out? - ishwar From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 1 06:51:45 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 1 06:51:45 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 961 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2001 07:00:00 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 957 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 07:00:00 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 07:00:00 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 401EC19A53; Thu, 31 May 2001 17:59:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1679D19A1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 31 May 2001 17:58:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06673 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 31 May 2001 17:58:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id RAA25023; Thu, 31 May 2001 17:58:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200105312158.RAA25023@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Thinknic and plan9 Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <20010531204829.DF5B1199E9@mail.cse.psu.edu> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 17:58:43 -0400 (EDT) In article <20010531204829.DF5B1199E9@mail.cse.psu.edu> you write: >i was going by the specs you published (512KB video memory - that won't >even get you to 1024x768x8), but it's clearly better than that from the >little info on the web page. Yeah, I just cribbed that data from several web pages; the 512KB spec can't be right. >i've nothing against it in principle, i'd love to replace this hot and >noisy pc under my desk with something that does only the things i need - >100base-t and a display. but if the display is limited to 1024x768 >or less then i'm better off using my laptop. Yeah, I agree. I'll see what I can get cooking. At least the ethernet chip is relatively simple. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 1 07:16:14 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 1 07:16:14 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 1217 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2001 07:24:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1213 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 07:24:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 07:24:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E757719A54; Thu, 31 May 2001 18:24:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 7CC3419A1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 31 May 2001 18:24:00 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] slow vncviewer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-bstufparnqlknzupvzhhhthaca" Message-Id: <20010531222400.7CC3419A1C@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 18:23:58 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-bstufparnqlknzupvzhhhthaca Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit snoop the ether and see what calls are going out. --upas-bstufparnqlknzupvzhhhthaca Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu May 31 17:59:33 EDT 2001 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu May 31 17:59:32 EDT 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 23F8419A43; Thu, 31 May 2001 17:59:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pali.cps.cmich.edu (pali.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.131.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DA92A19A41 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 31 May 2001 17:58:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ishwar@localhost) by pali.cps.cmich.edu (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4VLxmw10431 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 31 May 2001 17:59:48 -0400 From: Ish Rattan To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] slow vncviewer In-Reply-To: <20010531164204.A08FE19A2D@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 17:59:48 -0400 (EDT) On Thu, 31 May 2001 presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > As you might have guessed, that response didn't go with the attached message. > I was asking whether the slow connect to the BSD vncserver was due to > BSD trying to verify the address of the connecting machine. I have no way to tell as the vncserver/viewer are available as a pre-compiled package. Is there a way to figure it out? - ishwar --upas-bstufparnqlknzupvzhhhthaca-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 1 17:22:11 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 1 17:22:11 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 15605 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2001 17:30:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15601 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 17:30:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 17:30:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0943F199FD; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 04:30:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B4F58199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 04:29:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 155kF1-0004Uz-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 01 Jun 2001 09:25:07 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: bs Message-ID: <3B16E86D.492FAA5A@invalid.address.com> Organization: - Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , Subject: Re: [9fans] Compilation error?? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: balaji@mediaone.net List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 08:24:22 GMT http://www.entrisphere.com/about.html > philw wrote: > > Ken is more active than he has been in a long time, > he's just not at Lucent anymore. > > -----Original Message----- > From: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu [mailto:9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu]On > Behalf > Of Ish Rattan > Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 7:39 PM > To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > Subject: Re: [9fans] Compilation error?? > > On Wed, 30 May 2001 jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > > > On Wed May 30 18:57:33 EDT 2001, mike@ducky.net wrote: > > > >you can't use typestr anymore. it's a reserved word. > > > > > > But what does it do? I just spent a few minutes looking > > > at the compiler source, and it was not obvious to me. > > > > Typestr was one of the things to come out of Ken's parting > > flurry of activity. Here's the complete documentation as we have > > Does it mean he has left the scene finally? What a loss!!! > > - ishwar From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 1 17:39:08 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 1 17:39:08 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 15950 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2001 17:47:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15946 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 17:47:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 17:47:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 56B6D19A1C; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 04:47:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2AD2D199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 04:46:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010601084656.CMME283.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 09:46:56 +0100 Message-ID: <009001c0ea77$60c847c0$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: , <3B16E86D.492FAA5A@invalid.address.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Compilation error?? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 09:46:40 +0100 > http://www.entrisphere.com/about.html shame they couldn't afford a web designer From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 1 22:06:10 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 1 22:06:10 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19563 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2001 22:14:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19559 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 22:14:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 22:14:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 04D1519A1C; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 09:14:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D37E5199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 09:13:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hamnavoe.demon.co.uk ([158.152.225.204] helo=hamnavoe) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 155olA-0003mL-0X for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 14:14:37 +0100 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Fax problem From: Richard Miller MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 14:09:27 0100 There's a cute bug in /bin/fax, where it checks the input file type to see if postscript or text files need converting to g3 fax format: # convert to g3 switch(`{file $infiles(1)}){ case *g3* *fax* g3files=$infiles case postscript gs -dSAFER '-sDEVICE=dfaxlow' ... g3files=($tmp.*) case * lp -dstdout $infiles > $tmpps gs -dSAFER '-sDEVICE=dfaxlow' ... g3files=($tmp.*) } Because file(1) echoes the filename, the first case will be selected erroneously for a text or postscript file whose name contains 'fax' - and in particular when faxing from standard input, because stdin gets copied to a temp file called /tmp/fax.in.$pid . Simple correction: change the switch command to switch(`{file <$infiles(1)}){ -- Richard Miller From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 1 22:32:10 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 1 22:32:10 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19780 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2001 22:40:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19776 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 22:40:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 22:40:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3684A19A20; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 09:40:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DAB0E1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 09:39:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 155ote-0005gz-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 01 Jun 2001 14:23:22 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: James Message-ID: <3B17981E.9E80285E@home.com> Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] HTML file? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 13:23:01 GMT Where is the .html file located? I have Plan 9 connected with a Static IP. ip/httpd/httpd is active, I could connect with my other pc's webrowser. I just need to edited the html file (I guess). Also How do I setup and anonymous ftp server? James From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 1 23:02:10 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 1 23:02:10 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20100 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2001 23:10:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20096 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 23:10:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 23:10:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 508A719A3E; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:10:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4A529199C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:09:17 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] HTML file? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ljolmhmvdeojutbfzlrzfquayv" Message-Id: <20010601140917.4A529199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:09:15 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ljolmhmvdeojutbfzlrzfquayv Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The root of the space served by httpd is /usr/web. Before it starts serving, it uses the file /lib/namespace.httpd to mount/bind things below /usr/web. Make it an empty file if you don't want anything bound there. --upas-ljolmhmvdeojutbfzlrzfquayv Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Jun 1 09:40:24 EDT 2001 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Fri Jun 1 09:40:22 EDT 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 16B4919A1C; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 09:40:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DAB0E1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 09:39:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 155ote-0005gz-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 01 Jun 2001 14:23:22 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: James Message-ID: <3B17981E.9E80285E@home.com> Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] HTML file? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 13:23:01 GMT Where is the .html file located? I have Plan 9 connected with a Static IP. ip/httpd/httpd is active, I could connect with my other pc's webrowser. I just need to edited the html file (I guess). Also How do I setup and anonymous ftp server? James --upas-ljolmhmvdeojutbfzlrzfquayv-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 1 23:08:13 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 1 23:08:13 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20134 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2001 23:16:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20130 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 23:16:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 23:16:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9516619A27; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:16:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 63191199C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:15:15 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] HTML file? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-mnnvarfkywiepivxjjhghxfqrd" Message-Id: <20010601141515.63191199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:15:13 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-mnnvarfkywiepivxjjhghxfqrd Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ftp should already be setup. It's the file /rc/bin/service/tcp21. If you start a listener for tcp (aux/listen tcp), you'll accept ftp calls. The namespace for anonymous users is defined by the file /lib/namespace.ftp. It starts with the doc files, unix source, and /usr/web bound in. Edit it as you see fit. --upas-mnnvarfkywiepivxjjhghxfqrd Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Jun 1 09:40:24 EDT 2001 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Fri Jun 1 09:40:22 EDT 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 16B4919A1C; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 09:40:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DAB0E1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 09:39:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 155ote-0005gz-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 01 Jun 2001 14:23:22 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: James Message-ID: <3B17981E.9E80285E@home.com> Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] HTML file? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 13:23:01 GMT Where is the .html file located? I have Plan 9 connected with a Static IP. ip/httpd/httpd is active, I could connect with my other pc's webrowser. I just need to edited the html file (I guess). Also How do I setup and anonymous ftp server? James --upas-mnnvarfkywiepivxjjhghxfqrd-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 1 23:17:09 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 1 23:17:09 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20207 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2001 23:25:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20203 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 23:25:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 23:25:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D0F2819A40; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:25:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id DD14A199C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:24:17 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010601142417.DD14A199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] entrisphere's web pages Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:24:11 -0400 god forbid they should spend their time building products instead of flashy web pages. they clearly don't understand the new economy. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 1 23:21:07 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 1 23:21:07 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20246 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2001 23:29:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20242 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 23:29:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 23:29:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D5E9F19A41; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:29:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pali.cps.cmich.edu (pali.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.131.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ACBEA199C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:28:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ishwar@localhost) by pali.cps.cmich.edu (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f51ETxn11284 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:29:59 -0400 From: Ish Rattan To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] A silly question.. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:29:59 -0400 (EDT) One can read e-mail with mail but how does one terminate a reply to a mail message (via r or R)? I can't get out of editor mode -- q or ^D do not seem to do the trick? - ishwar From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 1 23:26:07 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 1 23:26:07 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20289 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2001 23:34:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20285 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 23:34:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 23:34:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B44E819A42; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:34:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 7CB8F199C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:33:11 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A silly question.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-kgxeqxqymzigqdhuqwkwszmxmk" Message-Id: <20010601143311.7CB8F199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:33:09 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-kgxeqxqymzigqdhuqwkwszmxmk Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you're in rio, the screen is in hold mode so that you can edit the message. Has the window turned blue? If so press the esc key to toggle out of hold mode. --upas-kgxeqxqymzigqdhuqwkwszmxmk Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Jun 1 10:29:21 EDT 2001 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Fri Jun 1 10:29:20 EDT 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1A4D819A3E; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:29:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pali.cps.cmich.edu (pali.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.131.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ACBEA199C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:28:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ishwar@localhost) by pali.cps.cmich.edu (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f51ETxn11284 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:29:59 -0400 From: Ish Rattan To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] A silly question.. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:29:59 -0400 (EDT) One can read e-mail with mail but how does one terminate a reply to a mail message (via r or R)? I can't get out of editor mode -- q or ^D do not seem to do the trick? - ishwar --upas-kgxeqxqymzigqdhuqwkwszmxmk-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 1 23:37:08 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 1 23:37:08 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20373 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2001 23:45:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20369 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 23:45:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 23:45:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A61319A49; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:45:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A35CC19A27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:44:50 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: F.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010601144450.A35CC19A27@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] pm in the bitsy Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 16:53:15 +0200 Hi, I think I managed to get it suspended using the code #undefined in power.c. My only problem is that my ignorance regarding the bitsy doesn't let me know how to make it resume. It seems that the processor is no longer waking up (I must power cycle it); that's despite one line that seems to prepare the on/off button to interrupt the processor and wake it up again. Any hint, pointer, or direction? thanks From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 1 23:43:06 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 1 23:43:06 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20419 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2001 23:51:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20415 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 23:51:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 23:51:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7306019A41; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:51:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 94D9B199C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:50:14 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pm in the bitsy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010601145014.94D9B199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:50:13 -0400 Any wakeup should appear as a reset to the chip causing it to jump to the flash bootloader. The reason the code is turned off is that we haven't had the guts to change the boot loader yet - one mistake and it's get a new bitsy. The linux source has some pointers and all the hardware manuals are on line pointed to by handhelds.org. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 1 23:54:08 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 1 23:54:08 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20534 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2001 00:02:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20530 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2001 00:02:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2001 00:02:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3120B19A46; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 11:02:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id EF38D199C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 11:01:05 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: F.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010601150105.EF38D199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] Re: pm on the bitsy Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 17:09:41 +0200 Hmm, but the linux kernel is doing suspend/resume properly. So, if changing the loader is so risky, couldn't we just make the bitsy kernel work following the linux loader convention for power resume (instead of changing the loader)? thanks in any case, I'll take a look to the pointers you gave... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 1 23:57:09 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 1 23:57:09 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20561 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2001 00:05:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20557 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2001 00:05:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2001 00:05:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E2C6619A4B; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 11:05:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0C48019A27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 11:04:13 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: pm on the bitsy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-gaivkzpfsfsjdrdkvlsulnofas" Message-Id: <20010601150413.0C48019A27@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 11:04:11 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-gaivkzpfsfsjdrdkvlsulnofas Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The linux loader I have doesn't do the suspend/resume. If you can figure out how their current loader does it, go for it. The source is on line. We were intending to get back to it but we're currently up to our neck with the 9P2000 conversion. --upas-gaivkzpfsfsjdrdkvlsulnofas Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Jun 1 11:02:26 EDT 2001 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Fri Jun 1 11:02:25 EDT 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7019C19A42; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 11:02:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id EF38D199C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 11:01:05 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: F.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010601150105.EF38D199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] Re: pm on the bitsy Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 17:09:41 +0200 Hmm, but the linux kernel is doing suspend/resume properly. So, if changing the loader is so risky, couldn't we just make the bitsy kernel work following the linux loader convention for power resume (instead of changing the loader)? thanks in any case, I'll take a look to the pointers you gave... --upas-gaivkzpfsfsjdrdkvlsulnofas-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 2 00:02:06 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 2 00:02:06 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20608 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2001 00:10:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20604 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2001 00:10:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2001 00:10:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1FFC219A49; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 11:10:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C147D1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 11:09:00 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: F.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010601150900.C147D1998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] Re: pm on the bitsy Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 17:17:18 +0200 : The linux loader I have doesn't do the suspend/resume. If you can : figure out how their current loader does it, go for it. The source : is on line. Ok, I see; they probably have just added it. I'm browsing the source right now. : : We were intending to get back to it but we're currently up to our neck : with the 9P2000 conversion. : I have now one or two days to spend on the bitsy, I'll see what I can do. thanks again. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 2 01:29:07 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 2 01:29:07 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 21260 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2001 01:37:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21256 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2001 01:37:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2001 01:37:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C988419A46; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 12:37:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E5684199EC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 12:36:51 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pm in the bitsy From: Sape Mullender MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-dmdofdsutdgsychroajmpanppj" Message-Id: <20010601163651.E5684199EC@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 12:36:50 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-dmdofdsutdgsychroajmpanppj Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We haven't finished writing the code to suspend/resume the bitsy yet. We still have to add the code to all the drivers that will make them power off the piece of hardware they control and power that back on after resume. Then we need to write the code that turns off memory and turns it back on after resume and, finally, we need to write the code that deals with the power-on entry point. We have done none of this so I'm not surprised you have problems. Sape --upas-dmdofdsutdgsychroajmpanppj Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Jun 1 10:45:21 EDT 2001 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Fri Jun 1 10:45:20 EDT 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9EDC019A45; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:45:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A35CC19A27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:44:50 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: F.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010601144450.A35CC19A27@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] pm in the bitsy Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 16:53:15 +0200 Hi, I think I managed to get it suspended using the code #undefined in power.c. My only problem is that my ignorance regarding the bitsy doesn't let me know how to make it resume. It seems that the processor is no longer waking up (I must power cycle it); that's despite one line that seems to prepare the on/off button to interrupt the processor and wake it up again. Any hint, pointer, or direction? thanks --upas-dmdofdsutdgsychroajmpanppj-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 2 01:44:08 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 2 01:44:08 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 21376 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2001 01:52:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21372 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2001 01:52:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2001 01:52:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7167219A4B; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 12:52:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pali.cps.cmich.edu (pali.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.131.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B25ED199EC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 12:51:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ishwar@localhost) by pali.cps.cmich.edu (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f51Gr6611801 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 12:53:06 -0400 From: Ish Rattan To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Second silly question of the day.. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 12:53:06 -0400 (EDT) I was running a standalone cpu/auth server with rio too on console. To try a new monitor I changed the line from uax/vga -l 1024x768x8 to 1280x1024x8 in /rc/bin/cpurc just before exec command for rio.. The system does boot but console is blank (monitor does not know how to display). I triwd to get into the system using drqwterm from a FreeBSD machine and user bootes but it won't let me change the file cpurc :-( Any ideas on fixing the problem???? - ishwar From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 2 01:45:07 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 2 01:45:07 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 21384 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2001 01:53:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21380 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2001 01:53:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2001 01:53:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 437DE19A4E; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 12:53:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 27E1319A4C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 12:52:15 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pm in the bitsy From: F.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-bcbkicecvwdmoskhdoofaiilku" Message-Id: <20010601165215.27E1319A4C@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 19:00:44 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-bcbkicecvwdmoskhdoofaiilku Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I only took a quick look, so this could be wrong; but I think that rs232, lcd, audio, and of course sa1100 are doing a power off and have the code to get back on. Perhaps the pcmcia/wavelan will not do so (I didn't check that yet). Regarding the power-on entry point, my boot loader is already jumping (well, not sure yet, but looks like), to the address kept in powerregs->pspr. The linux code was kind of a tutorial here. So, if I'm not so mistaken, I think I'd only need to save all the processor state and write an assembly routine to reload it (placing its address into powerregs->pspr in sa1100_power_off). My only problem is that I'm learning arm assembler while trying to get this working, so I'm not too optimistic regarding the final result. In any case, if you still think I'm missing something (well, probably many things) and you have a minute to let me know, that would be great. thanks for your mail --upas-bcbkicecvwdmoskhdoofaiilku Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (postfix@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by gsyc.escet.urjc.es (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA25954; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 18:37:29 +0200 X-Authentication-Warning: gsyc.escet.urjc.es: Host postfix@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6] claimed to be mail.cse.psu.edu Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C988419A46; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 12:37:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E5684199EC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 12:36:51 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pm in the bitsy From: Sape Mullender MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-dmdofdsutdgsychroajmpanppj" Message-Id: <20010601163651.E5684199EC@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 12:36:50 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-dmdofdsutdgsychroajmpanppj Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We haven't finished writing the code to suspend/resume the bitsy yet. We still have to add the code to all the drivers that will make them power off the piece of hardware they control and power that back on after resume. Then we need to write the code that turns off memory and turns it back on after resume and, finally, we need to write the code that deals with the power-on entry point. We have done none of this so I'm not surprised you have problems. Sape --upas-dmdofdsutdgsychroajmpanppj Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Jun 1 10:45:21 EDT 2001 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Fri Jun 1 10:45:20 EDT 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9EDC019A45; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:45:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A35CC19A27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:44:50 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: F.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010601144450.A35CC19A27@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] pm in the bitsy Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 16:53:15 +0200 Hi, I think I managed to get it suspended using the code #undefined in power.c. My only problem is that my ignorance regarding the bitsy doesn't let me know how to make it resume. It seems that the processor is no longer waking up (I must power cycle it); that's despite one line that seems to prepare the on/off button to interrupt the processor and wake it up again. Any hint, pointer, or direction? thanks --upas-dmdofdsutdgsychroajmpanppj-- --upas-bcbkicecvwdmoskhdoofaiilku-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 2 01:50:06 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 2 01:50:06 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 21423 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2001 01:58:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21419 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2001 01:58:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2001 01:58:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ED19319A51; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 12:58:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 016D8199EC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 12:57:31 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Second silly question of the day.. From: F.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-tmorqeouvcjqjwpbknezzzjrst" Message-Id: <20010601165732.016D8199EC@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 19:05:56 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-tmorqeouvcjqjwpbknezzzjrst Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When I mess up my cpurc/vga I boot it as a terminal using a regular 9pcdisk.gz kernel; then I fix it---of course that's to avoid rebooting the file server to put it into `allow' mode. But maybe there's a better way... --upas-tmorqeouvcjqjwpbknezzzjrst Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (postfix@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by gsyc.escet.urjc.es (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA26314; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 18:52:27 +0200 X-Authentication-Warning: gsyc.escet.urjc.es: Host postfix@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6] claimed to be mail.cse.psu.edu Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7167219A4B; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 12:52:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pali.cps.cmich.edu (pali.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.131.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B25ED199EC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 12:51:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ishwar@localhost) by pali.cps.cmich.edu (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f51Gr6611801 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 12:53:06 -0400 From: Ish Rattan To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Second silly question of the day.. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 12:53:06 -0400 (EDT) I was running a standalone cpu/auth server with rio too on console. To try a new monitor I changed the line from uax/vga -l 1024x768x8 to 1280x1024x8 in /rc/bin/cpurc just before exec command for rio.. The system does boot but console is blank (monitor does not know how to display). I triwd to get into the system using drqwterm from a FreeBSD machine and user bootes but it won't let me change the file cpurc :-( Any ideas on fixing the problem???? - ishwar --upas-tmorqeouvcjqjwpbknezzzjrst-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 2 02:02:06 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 2 02:02:06 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 21510 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2001 02:10:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21506 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2001 02:10:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2001 02:10:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 34ADB19A58; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 13:10:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2ABE3199EC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 13:09:45 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pm in the bitsy From: Sape Mullender MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20010601170945.2ABE3199EC@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 13:09:38 -0400 Nemo, > I only took a quick look, so this could be wrong; but I think that > rs232, lcd, audio, and of course sa1100 are doing a power off and have > the code to get back on. Perhaps the pcmcia/wavelan will not do so (I > didn't check that yet). Peter Bosch — who joined our group a few months ago — is working on code for all of our architectures to support dynamic pcmcia and cardbus card insertion and removal. Power management will fall out of that. If you want, you can do a quick hack for the Wavelan, but there will be better code at some point. The power code in the other drivers does exist but hasn't been tested yet. I do turn power off on close in the audio driver, so powering in/off is not a problem, but I haven't tested how open-file state survives power-off followed by power-on. > Regarding the power-on entry point, my boot loader is already jumping > (well, not sure yet, but looks like), to the address kept in > powerregs->pspr. The linux code was kind of a tutorial here. > So, if I'm not so mistaken, I think I'd only need to save all the > processor state and write an assembly routine to reload it (placing its > address into powerregs->pspr in sa1100_power_off). That's the impression I got. A good idea might be to make the first instruction of pwer-restore be to reload powerregs->pspr with the cold-boot address. If things go wrong in the power-up code, at least you'll come back to life by recycling power. > My only problem is that I'm learning arm assembler while trying to get > this working, so I'm not too optimistic regarding the final result. You'll also have to learn Ken's loader which may be even harder. It still confuses me occasionally. > In any case, if you still think I'm missing something (well, probably > many things) and you have a minute to let me know, that would be great. We'd love it if you could get started on power management for the BItsy and we'll definitely help you where we can. By the way, during the conversion to 9P2000, I added the power and configure entry points to the devtab for all of our systems — they only existed for the bitsy. Peter Bosch will have a lot to say about how we use the configure entry point; we can dictate the use of the power entry point. Sape From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 2 02:07:07 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 2 02:07:07 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 21539 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2001 02:15:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21535 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2001 02:15:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2001 02:15:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C877F19A5A; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 13:15:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8DD97199EC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 13:14:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 155s5L-0003eR-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 01 Jun 2001 17:47:39 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3B17BA6E.317082DB@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20010601142417.DD14A199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] entrisphere's web pages Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 16:47:31 GMT presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > god forbid they should spend their time building products instead > of flashy web pages. they clearly don't understand the new > economy. But they do know about buzzwords such as "empowerment". :-) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 2 02:53:07 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 2 02:53:07 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 21895 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2001 03:01:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21891 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2001 03:01:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2001 03:01:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4326819A32; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 14:01:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (caldo.demon.co.uk [194.222.207.148]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 340F1199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 14:00:10 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pm in the bitsy From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010601180010.340F1199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 18:55:56 +0100 >>You'll also have to learn Ken's loader which may be even harder. It >>still confuses me occasionally. you'll need to dig in sooner rather than later: the latest bootstrap on the ipaq i've got doesn't understand the -H5 header 5l generates because they've changed it again. i'm trying to work out exactly what the new one needs. my last hurried attempts a few days ago ought to have worked, but didn't. i'll go through it again more slowly! at vita we've also got some small but important bug fixes to 5l that i'll retrofit. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 2 04:11:08 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 2 04:11:08 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22372 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2001 04:19:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22368 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2001 04:19:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2001 04:19:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F169119A4B; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 15:19:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pali.cps.cmich.edu (pali.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.131.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 59205199EC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 15:18:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ishwar@localhost) by pali.cps.cmich.edu (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f51JJP211937 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 15:19:25 -0400 From: Ish Rattan To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] cpu/auth server... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 15:19:25 -0400 (EDT) I tried to boot the pc with a terminal-boot disk (plan9.ini on floppy and 9pcdisk on hard-disk). The system panics.. user[none]: glenda password: stat #S/sdC0/fs fails: file does not exist (stat #S/sdC0/fsfs also failed) panic: boot process died: unknown ktrace: /kernel/path 80164e2... - ishwar From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 2 07:21:17 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 2 07:21:17 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 23630 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2001 07:29:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23626 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2001 07:29:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2001 07:29:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B9AF19A4B; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 18:29:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE (isdn332.s.netic.de [212.9.163.76]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AABDD199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 18:28:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from helbig@localhost) by RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f51MWLV00286 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 00:32:21 +0200 (CEST) From: Wolfgang Helbig Message-Id: <200106012232.f51MWLV00286@RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] cpu/auth server... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 00:32:21 +0200 (CEST) > stat #S/sdC0/fs fails: file does not exist > (stat #S/sdC0/fsfs also failed) SdC0 might not be the disk, where you installed plan9. These are the names of the ide disks: Name connected to sdC0 master/primary controller sdC1 slave/primary controller sdD0 master/secondary controller sdD1 slave/secondary controller Wolfgang From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 2 07:32:09 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 2 07:32:09 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 23712 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2001 07:40:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23708 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2001 07:40:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2001 07:40:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9A89119A3D; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 18:40:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from haddock.cd.chalmers.se (haddock.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 30FC3199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 18:39:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (boris.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.21]) by haddock.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA29952; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 00:38:55 +0200 (MET DST) From: Laura Creighton Received: (from lac@localhost) by boris.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3/8.8.7) id AAA15874; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 00:38:55 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200106012238.AAA15874@boris.cd.chalmers.se> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] entrisphere's web pages Cc: lac@cd.chalmers.se Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 00:38:55 +0200 (MET DST) Get a clue. Hire somebody to write the web page. Do you want to write another coolest thing on the planet which nobody uses because you don't know marketting for infants of one month age? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 2 07:37:09 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 2 07:37:09 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 23743 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2001 07:45:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23739 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2001 07:45:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2001 07:45:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0578219A51; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 18:45:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [130.203.12.17] (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id ABA91199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 18:44:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 13256 invoked by uid 991); 1 Jun 2001 22:44:17 -0000 Message-ID: <20010601224417.13254.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] entrisphere's web pages From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 18:44:17 -0400 Friends, Complaints about other people's web pages are OFF TOPIC for this mailing list. Do not reply to this message. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 2 07:41:07 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 2 07:41:07 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 23763 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2001 07:49:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23759 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2001 07:49:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2001 07:49:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F2FFA19A54; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 18:49:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from richelberger.com (ntmail8.lightrealm.com [216.122.96.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C9754199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 18:48:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from astro (210-54-224-150.adsl.xtra.co.nz [210.54.224.150]) by richelberger.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA08036 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 15:36:07 -0700 (PDT) From: "Richard Elberger" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: RE: [9fans] entrisphere's web pages Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200106012238.AAA15874@boris.cd.chalmers.se> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 10:53:02 +1200 Er, I think what presotto is saying is that they are in [probably] first round financing and they need to focus on product. If the vc's thought the webpage/marketing was important, they would be the first people to entrisphere. So take it easy. -- rich >-----Original Message----- >From: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu [mailto:9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu]On Behalf >Of Laura Creighton >Sent: Saturday, 2 June 2001 10:39 a.m. >To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >Cc: lac@cd.chalmers.se >Subject: Re: [9fans] entrisphere's web pages > > >Get a clue. Hire somebody to write the web page. Do you want to >write another coolest thing on the planet which nobody uses >because you don't know marketting for infants of one month age? > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 2 07:47:06 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 2 07:47:06 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 23806 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2001 07:55:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23802 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2001 07:55:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2001 07:55:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0E0D319A58; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 18:55:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1D11D199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 18:54:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010601225409.1D11D199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] gcc x86 assembly help Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 18:54:04 -0400 Ishwar has been trying to compile drawterm on a Linux 2.4 kernel. The drawterm code (like the Inferno code before it) depends on the fact that there are different TSS registers in each process in Linux, but this changed in 2.4 so the Linux-specific code broke. He's now trying to use the pthread-specific code (which works well under FreeBSD and Irix), but gets a weird message from gcc about "impossible register constraint in asm" on the x86 test-and-set code. typedef struct Lock Lock; struct Lock { int val; }; int canlock(Lock *l) { int v; __asm__( "movl $1, %%eax\n\t" "xchgl %%eax,(%%ebx)" : "=a" (v) : "ebx" (&l->val) ); switch(v) { case 0: return 1; case 1: return 0; default: print("canlock: corrupted 0x%lux\n", v); } return 0; } Does anyone with more gcc inline assembly experience know what's wrong with this (or what changed in gcc in the latest Linux distributions to make it start rejecting this)? Thanks. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 2 08:42:07 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 2 08:42:07 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 24221 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2001 08:50:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24217 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2001 08:50:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2001 08:50:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 988A319A3D; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 19:50:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pali.cps.cmich.edu (pali.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.131.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2D48E199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 19:49:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ishwar@localhost) by pali.cps.cmich.edu (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f51NpAM13166 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 19:51:10 -0400 From: Ish Rattan To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] cpu/auth server... In-Reply-To: <200106012232.f51MWLV00286@RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 19:51:10 -0400 (EDT) On Sat, 2 Jun 2001, Wolfgang Helbig wrote: > > stat #S/sdC0/fs fails: file does not exist > > (stat #S/sdC0/fsfs also failed) > > SdC0 might not be the disk, where you installed plan9. > These are the names of the ide disks: Strangely a standalone cpu/auth server boot from the same disk correctly.. -ishwar From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 2 11:17:06 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 2 11:17:06 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 26534 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2001 11:25:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26530 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2001 11:25:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2001 11:25:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D41119A51; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 22:25:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wgh1 (unknown [207.137.146.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B2691199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 22:24:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by wgh1 with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 19:25:32 -0700 From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jun 2001 02:25:32.0094 (UTC) FILETIME=[4C238DE0:01C0EB0B] Subject: [9fans] IMPORTANT - Click The Link Below NOW or We Won't Send Your Daily Joke! Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 19:25:31 -0700 Someone (presumably you!) has just subscribed you to the Daily Joke, a free service from Jay's Jokes (http://jaysjokes.com). TO COMPLETE THE SUBSCRIPTION PROCESS, YOU MUST CLICK ON THE FOLLOWING LINK: http://jaysjokes.com/subscribe-3.asp?Email=9fans@cse.psu.edu DON'T PROCRASTINATE - DO IT NOW! Or, if someone else entered your email address in error and you don't want the Daily Joke, simply delete this email. If you don't click on the link you won't be added to our database. Thanks...Jay From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 2 11:46:07 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 2 11:46:07 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 26996 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2001 11:54:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26992 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2001 11:54:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2001 11:54:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BA10519A58; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 22:54:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Princeton.EDU (postoffice.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.120]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 246FF19A51 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 22:53:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU (smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.65]) by Princeton.EDU (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA08048 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 22:53:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from princeton.edu (lane.Princeton.EDU [128.112.52.125]) by smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21280 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 22:53:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B185520.BA8CCC3B@princeton.edu> From: Martin Harriss X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-5.0 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] gcc x86 assembly help References: <20010601225409.1D11D199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 22:53:20 -0400 Russ Cox wrote: > > Ishwar has been trying to compile drawterm on a > Linux 2.4 kernel. The drawterm code (like the Inferno > code before it) depends on the fact that there are > different TSS registers in each process in Linux, > but this changed in 2.4 so the Linux-specific code > broke. > > He's now trying to use the pthread-specific code > (which works well under FreeBSD and Irix), but gets > a weird message from gcc about "impossible register > constraint in asm" on the x86 test-and-set code. > > typedef struct Lock Lock; > struct Lock { > int val; > }; > > int > canlock(Lock *l) > { > int v; > > __asm__( "movl $1, %%eax\n\t" > "xchgl %%eax,(%%ebx)" > : "=a" (v) > : "ebx" (&l->val) > ); > switch(v) { > case 0: return 1; > case 1: return 0; > default: print("canlock: corrupted 0x%lux\n", v); > } > return 0; > } > > Does anyone with more gcc inline assembly experience > know what's wrong with this (or what changed in gcc > in the latest Linux distributions to make it start > rejecting this)? > > Thanks. > Russ I think the problem may be the "ebx" constraint. I've never seen it written like that -- I thought that for the [e]bx register the constraint was simply "b". The current manual seems to confirm that. Can you try "b" and see if you have any luck? Martin Reference: http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-2.95.3/gcc_16.html#SEC175 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 2 11:49:09 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 2 11:49:09 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 27061 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2001 11:57:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27057 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2001 11:57:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2001 11:57:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 87B5619A5B; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 22:57:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 17F77199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 22:56:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [9fans] gcc x86 assembly help From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010602025638.17F77199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 22:56:35 -0400 The problem is apparently that "ebx" should just be "b" -- e and x mean other things. Thanks to all who replied. I've learned a lot more about inline assembly than I had thought was possible. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 2 22:53:10 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 2 22:53:10 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 1514 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2001 23:01:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1510 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2001 23:01:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2001 23:01:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 92E8419A13; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 10:01:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5B6B9199EF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 10:00:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hamnavoe.demon.co.uk ([158.152.225.204] helo=hamnavoe) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 156Bx3-000L0O-0K for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 14:00:25 +0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Fax problem From: Richard Miller MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 14:57:59 0100 If we're going to fix fax, we might as well also handle the general case of faxing multiple files of different type. How about replacing the switch(`{file $infiles(1)}) statement -- which only checks the type of the first file -- with something like this: # convert to g3 g3files=() ntmp=1 for (infile in $infiles) { otmp=$tmp.$ntmp ntmp=`{echo $ntmp+1 | hoc} switch(`{file <$infile}){ case *g3* *fax* g3files=($g3files $infile) case postscript gs -dSAFER '-sDEVICE=dfaxlow' '-sOUTPUTFILE='$otmp.'.%03d' -dNOPAUSE -d QUIET $infile quit.ps g3files=($g3files $otmp.*) case * lp -dstdout $infile > $tmpps gs -dSAFER '-sDEVICE=dfaxlow' '-sOUTPUTFILE='$otmp'.%03d' -dNOPAUSE -dQUIET $tmpps quit.ps g3files=($g3files $otmp.*) } } -- Richard From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 3 01:46:04 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 3 01:46:04 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 3603 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2001 01:54:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3599 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2001 01:54:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2001 01:54:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 07C3319A13; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 12:54:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from haddock.cd.chalmers.se (haddock.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BECC1199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 12:53:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rackham.cd.chalmers.se (rackham.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.15]) by haddock.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA28430; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 18:53:35 +0200 (MET DST) From: Laura Creighton Received: (from lac@localhost) by rackham.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3/8.8.7) id SAA25202; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 18:53:34 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200106021653.SAA25202@rackham.cd.chalmers.se> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: lac@cd.chalmers.se Subject: [9fans] which linux! which gcc! Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 18:53:34 +0200 (MET DST) Do you guys not know how many of these things there are? If you are running Red Hat 7.0 then stop what you are doing immediately. the gcc is entirely hosed. there are so many bugs you cannot compile anything with it. there are supposed to be a patch for it but what do you say to a bunch of people who hold fast to the we do not do bug fixes in relweases whihc are or are not matched with some sort of regular expression?! Who think that its bettter to have a major release where the _compiler_ doesn't work and ... no time for rant got too much code to write myself. Which abominable gcc in which abominable linux are you trying to explode and do you need that particular poison or will any carcinogen do? Majorly pissed Laura welcome to my world gang. do you understand better why Boyd loses it from tiome to time? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 3 01:51:05 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 3 01:51:05 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 3659 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2001 01:59:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3655 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2001 01:59:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2001 01:59:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC44419A37; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 12:59:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id EC2EB199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 12:58:14 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Fax problem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-odnyovilkpfnhqqciabmwjuleg" Message-Id: <20010602165814.EC2EB199E4@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 12:58:13 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-odnyovilkpfnhqqciabmwjuleg Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm currently using: # convert to g3 g3files=() a=1 for(i in $infiles){ switch(`{file <$infiles(1)}){ case *:*g3* *:*fax* g3files=($g3files $i) case *:*postscript gs -dSAFER '-sDEVICE=dfaxlow' '-sOUTPUTFILE='$tmp'.'$#a'.%03d' -dNOPAUSE -dQUIET $i quit.ps g3files=($g3files $tmp.$#a.*) case * lp -dstdout $i > $tmpps gs -dSAFER '-sDEVICE=dfaxlow' '-sOUTPUTFILE='$tmp'.'$#a'.%03d' -dNOPAUSE -dQUIET $tmpps quit.ps g3files=($g3files $tmp.$#a.*) } a=($a $a) } --upas-odnyovilkpfnhqqciabmwjuleg Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sat Jun 2 10:01:24 EDT 2001 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sat Jun 2 10:01:22 EDT 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D7EBA19A03; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 10:01:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5B6B9199EF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 10:00:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hamnavoe.demon.co.uk ([158.152.225.204] helo=hamnavoe) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 156Bx3-000L0O-0K for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 14:00:25 +0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Fax problem From: Richard Miller MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 14:57:59 0100 If we're going to fix fax, we might as well also handle the general case of faxing multiple files of different type. How about replacing the switch(`{file $infiles(1)}) statement -- which only checks the type of the first file -- with something like this: # convert to g3 g3files=() ntmp=1 for (infile in $infiles) { otmp=$tmp.$ntmp ntmp=`{echo $ntmp+1 | hoc} switch(`{file <$infile}){ case *g3* *fax* g3files=($g3files $infile) case postscript gs -dSAFER '-sDEVICE=dfaxlow' '-sOUTPUTFILE='$otmp.'.%03d' -dNOPAUSE -d QUIET $infile quit.ps g3files=($g3files $otmp.*) case * lp -dstdout $infile > $tmpps gs -dSAFER '-sDEVICE=dfaxlow' '-sOUTPUTFILE='$otmp'.%03d' -dNOPAUSE -dQUIET $tmpps quit.ps g3files=($g3files $otmp.*) } } -- Richard --upas-odnyovilkpfnhqqciabmwjuleg-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 3 01:57:05 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 3 01:57:05 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 3742 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2001 02:05:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3738 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2001 02:05:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2001 02:05:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3244E19A58; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 13:05:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from irixbum.casa.ca (h24-66-237-254.ss.shawcable.net [24.66.237.254]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 94E5119A26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 13:04:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aam396@localhost) by irixbum.casa.ca (SGI-8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26509 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 11:02:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: irixbum.: aam396 owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski X-Sender: aam396@irixbum.casa.ca To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] which linux! which gcc! In-Reply-To: <200106021653.SAA25202@rackham.cd.chalmers.se> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 11:02:34 -0700 boyd uses openbsd as he himself said here. i suppose the compiler is not his major woe :) now, how many people are interested in seeing opengl for plan9? i have that weird idea that it may look great and actually have bragging value :) pros? cons? andrey On Sat, 2 Jun 2001, Laura Creighton wrote: > welcome to my world gang. do you understand better why Boyd loses it from > tiome to time? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 3 02:21:04 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 3 02:21:04 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 4031 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2001 02:29:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4027 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2001 02:29:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2001 02:29:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DEA4719A3D; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 13:29:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (einstein.ssz.com [204.96.2.99]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 43479199EB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 13:28:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA28932; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 12:45:47 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: hangar18@einstein.ssz.com Subject: Re: [9fans] which linux! which gcc! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 12:45:47 -0500 (CDT) On Sat, 2 Jun 2001, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > boyd uses openbsd as he himself said here. i suppose the compiler is not his > major woe :) > > now, how many people are interested in seeing opengl for plan9? i have that > weird idea that it may look great and actually have bragging value :) > > pros? cons? I'm pro! -- ____________________________________________________________________ "...where annual election ends, tyranny begins;" Thomas Jefferson & Samuel Adams The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 3 02:34:05 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 3 02:34:05 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 4191 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2001 02:42:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4187 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2001 02:42:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2001 02:42:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6045119A5C; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 13:42:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cosym.net (sdsl-64-7-3-116.dsl.nyc.megapath.net [64.7.3.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4C5C619A13 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 13:41:39 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] which linux! which gcc! From: anothy@cosym.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20010602174139.4C5C619A13@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 13:41:18 -0400 //how many people are interested in seeing opengl for plan9? there was a discussion some time in 1998 (i think) about doing something about Inferno's tk. moving to OpenGL was one of the options proposed. of cource, they took the (also very reasonable) route of just investing more time and energy into tk. the unfortunate part was that - as with much of what the BU tried to do - it either never got done, or got done poorly. personally, i think it'd be a good addition to either system. -α. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 3 06:38:09 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 3 06:38:09 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 7121 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2001 06:46:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7117 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2001 06:46:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2001 06:46:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4BE74199EF; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 17:46:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 070C4199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 17:45:20 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "rob pike" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010602214521.070C4199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] fax Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 17:45:19 -0400 Presto had already fixed our fax script; here is the complete file /rc/bin/fax #!/bin/rc view=no stdin=no switch($1){ case -v view=yes shift } switch($#*){ case 0 1 echo usage: $0 telephone-number recipient [files] exit 0 case 2 stdin=yes } telno=$1 shift switch($telno){ case [0-9]* ; case * echo usage: $0 telephone-number recipient [files] exit 0 } switch($telno){ case ??????? telno='*9,'^$telno case ?????????? telno='*9,1'^$telno case 1?????????? telno='*9,'^$telno case 011* telno='*9,'^$telno case +* telno=`{echo $telno | sed 's/\+/*9,011/'} } recip=$1 shift script=/tmp/fax.$pid header=/tmp/faxh.$pid user=`{cat /dev/user} tmp=/tmp/fax.g3.$pid tmpin=/tmp/fax.in.$pid tmpps=/tmp/fax.ps.$pid tel=`{grep '\) '$user /lib/tel} myname=`{echo $tel | sed 's/ \(.*//'} ext=`{echo $tel | sed 's/.*\) [^ ]* [^ ]* ([^ ]*).*/\1/'} fn sigint{ rm -f $tmp.* $script $header $header.* $tmpin $tmpps exit interrupt } # gather input into a file switch($stdin){ case yes cat > $tmpin infiles=$tmpin case * infiles=($*) } # convert to g3 g3files=() a=1 for(i in $infiles){ switch(`{file $i}){ case *:*g3* *:*fax* g3files=($g3files $i) case *:*postscript gs -dSAFER '-sDEVICE=dfaxlow' '-sOUTPUTFILE='$tmp'.'$#a'.%03d' -dNOPAUSE -dQUIET $i quit.ps g3files=($g3files $tmp.$#a.*) case * lp -dstdout $i > $tmpps gs -dSAFER '-sDEVICE=dfaxlow' '-sOUTPUTFILE='$tmp'.'$#a'.%03d' -dNOPAUSE -dQUIET $tmpps quit.ps g3files=($g3files $tmp.$#a.*) } a=($a $a) } pages=`{echo $g3files|wc -w} echo -n 's/FAXddd/' > $script echo -n `{date}>> $script echo />> $script echo -n s/FAXFFF/>> $script echo -n $myname >> $script echo />> $script echo -n s/FAXEEE/>> $script echo -n $user >> $script echo />> $script echo -n s/FAXVVV/>> $script echo -n $ext >> $script echo />> $script echo -n s/FAXTTT/>> $script echo -n $recip >> $script echo />> $script echo -n s/FAXfff/>> $script echo -n $telno >> $script echo />> $script echo -n s/FAXPPP/>> $script echo -n $pages >> $script echo />> $script sed -f $script /sys/lib/fax/h.ps > $header gs -dSAFER '-sDEVICE=dfaxlow' '-sOUTPUTFILE='$header'.%03d' -dNOPAUSE -dQUIET $header quit.ps files=() for(i in $header.* $g3files){ files=($files -f $i) } switch($view){ case no upas/qer $files /mail/faxoutqueue fax $user $telno < /dev/null rx dinar /sys/lib/fax/faxgoose case yes page $header.* $g3files } #rm -f $tmp.* $script $header $header.* $tmpin $tmpps From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 3 12:49:06 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 3 12:49:06 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 11391 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2001 12:57:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11387 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2001 12:57:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2001 12:57:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 215E4199F2; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 23:57:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (einstein.ssz.com [204.96.2.99]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C5F26199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 23:56:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA01939 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 22:59:08 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: <20010601165732.016D8199EC@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Austin, Tx: Build Your Own Box Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 22:59:08 -0500 (CDT) Oye! Oye! Oye! Build Your Own Box! But Don't Do It Alone! Sponsored by ESSI, Hanger 18, The Austin Linux Group, Austin Cypherpunks, & LinuxLink, Inc. Pass it around!!!!!!!! (Yeah, this means you) Where you say? Emperor Systems Dan Lee Vogler 2538 S. Congress Avenue #300 (3rd floor) 512-440-1132 plan9@hdtv.net Noon until 6pm What is going on? We'll be helping build a variety of boxes and hosting some short talks and demonstrations. We're still working on the talk/demo's, but if you're interested in doing one then contact, Jim Choate ravage@ssz.com 512-451-7087 At least one of the talks will be by Stu Green (one of the founders of ALG) on his proposal for a 'Open Source Forge' here in Austin. Why would I be interested? The purpose of the BYOB is to help users of Plan 9 and Linux (or Inferno, or QNX, or BSD, or ...) to network in the community. We do this by helping people build their first box, update or upgrade an existing machine, or perhaps provide some other service to the user community (e.g. a talk on public key management). So, if you've a small business or a particular interest in some application you might want to consider giving a short (30 min. or up) talk or demonstration. Hangar 18 in particular is hoping to make considerable gains in providing a public access Plan 9 resource site through these activities. With regard to Plan 9 machines, we recommend the following minimums for a IO/Auth server (the 'entry' level server): K6 or Pentium One - 75MHz or better 32 Meg RAM or more 540 Meg ide HD or more S3 Virge or ATI Rage-128 PCI video card w/ 4Meg or more Intel or 3COM PCI NIC card THREE ( 3 ) button PS/2 mouse ( not a wheel mouse ) 4X or better ATAPI/ide CD-ROM drive. 1.44 Floppy Drive For more information on Plan 9 or the Hangar 18 Co-Op please visit, http://einstein.ssz.com/hangar18 Mr. OLU at Low Budget PC has all these parts "CHEAP" at 707-8044. (And no, they're not directly involved and we dont receive any sort of return for endorsment - not that this is mind you) Many thanks to Dan of Emperor Systems in providing a location to make this possible. With respect to refreshments, we ask everyone to try to bring something. Several of us are going to try and raise enough $$$ by donation to get a Chinese take out around 2pm for all attendee's. We currently have $60 donated. Please consider helping out in this fine culinary endeavour. See you there! -- ____________________________________________________________________ "...where annual election ends, tyranny begins;" Thomas Jefferson & Samuel Adams The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 3 15:48:03 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 3 15:48:03 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 13571 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2001 15:56:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13567 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2001 15:56:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2001 15:56:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0166F199E3; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 02:56:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (zola.noos.net [212.198.2.76]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7F04B199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 02:55:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 41548983 invoked by uid 0); 3 Jun 2001 06:55:23 -0000 Received: from s232.dhcp212-198-183.noos.fr (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by zola.noos.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 3 Jun 2001 06:55:23 -0000 Message-ID: <003301c0ebfa$0e3ffdc0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200106021653.SAA25202@rackham.cd.chalmers.se> Subject: Re: [9fans] which linux! which gcc! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 08:54:37 +0200 From: "Laura Creighton" > > the gcc is entirely hosed. yup. a good metric is probably the number of command line options. it has too many and that's a really bad sign. yeah, i've installed the damn thing to please boneheaded fools on their road to ruin. as soon as it comes apart who's gotta fix it? rm would. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 3 16:14:05 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 3 16:14:05 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 13898 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2001 16:22:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13894 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2001 16:22:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2001 16:22:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DCC60199E6; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 03:22:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (aragon.noos.net [212.198.2.75]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 64844199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 03:21:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 1602414 invoked by uid 0); 3 Jun 2001 07:21:04 -0000 Received: from s232.dhcp212-198-183.noos.fr (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by aragon.noos.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 3 Jun 2001 07:21:04 -0000 Message-ID: <004601c0ebfd$a3c6c560$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] which linux! which gcc! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 09:20:16 +0200 From: "andrey mirtchovski" > > boyd uses openbsd as he himself said here. i suppose the compiler is not his > major woe :) don't assume. i installed the damn thing but i DON'T use it because i want a terminal. i'm sick of admining unix systems that smell really bad (they all do). i had some idea to do something with it, but i gave up in disgust. another kernel to hack -- oh, wow... at least with datakit you could do it from home instead of adb and a la-120 printed stack backtrace. i'm sick of this wretched industry. workstations and NFS were one of the worst debacles of the '80/90s. linux just propogated the virus, without understanding the problem. no disk, no fan ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 3 23:23:10 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 3 23:23:10 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19582 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2001 23:31:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19578 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2001 23:31:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2001 23:31:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2BDDB199E6; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 10:31:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE (isdn337.s.netic.de [212.9.163.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B23FF199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 10:30:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from helbig@localhost) by RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f53EXEW00386 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 16:33:14 +0200 (CEST) From: Wolfgang Helbig Message-Id: <200106031433.f53EXEW00386@RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] PnP Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 16:33:14 +0200 (CEST) Hi, I want to use a PnP-card (NE2000 "clone"). The BIOS does not support PnP. And I do not want to port the PnP code from NetBSD to Plan 9. (about 3000 lines of intimitating code) Its hard to find a non PnP ethernet card nowadays. Any advices? Any experiences with a situation like this? Thanks in advance. Wolfgang From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 3 23:54:04 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 3 23:54:04 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20006 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2001 00:02:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20002 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2001 00:02:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 00:02:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9337E199E6; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 11:02:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 566DB199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 11:01:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15791 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 11:01:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id LAA11737; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 11:01:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200106031501.LAA11737@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] PnP Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <200106031433.f53EXEW00386@RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 11:01:46 -0400 (EDT) In article <200106031433.f53EXEW00386@RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE>, Wolfgang Helbig <9fans@cse.psu.edu> wrote: >Its hard to find a non PnP ethernet card nowadays. Really? I've found it hard to find ISA cards in general. >?Any advices? Any experiences with a situation like this? Go with a PCI card would be my advice. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 4 00:44:02 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 4 00:44:02 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20448 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2001 00:52:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20443 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2001 00:52:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 00:52:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE587199E8; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 11:52:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Princeton.EDU (postoffice.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.120]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 11B8C1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 11:51:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU (smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.65]) by Princeton.EDU (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19865 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 11:51:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from princeton.edu (lane.Princeton.EDU [128.112.52.125]) by smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17831 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 11:51:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B1A5D08.7BD33C14@princeton.edu> From: Martin Harriss X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-5.0 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] PnP References: <200106031433.f53EXEW00386@RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 11:51:36 -0400 Wolfgang Helbig wrote: > > Hi, > I want to use a PnP-card (NE2000 "clone"). The BIOS does not > support PnP. And I do not want to port the PnP code from NetBSD > to Plan 9. (about 3000 lines of intimitating code) Its hard to find > a non PnP ethernet card nowadays. Any advices? Any experiences with a > situation like this? > > Thanks in advance. > > Wolfgang There are ISA NE2000 clone ethernet cards that can be set to be configured either by PnP or by jumper or by a configuration program. I see them all the time at computer shows here in the US; they may or may not be available in Germany. Martin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 4 04:00:05 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 4 04:00:05 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 21787 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2001 04:08:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21783 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2001 04:08:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 04:08:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3795A199EE; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 15:08:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE (isdn324.s.netic.de [212.9.163.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F376199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 15:07:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from helbig@localhost) by RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f53JAXQ00265 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 21:10:33 +0200 (CEST) From: Wolfgang Helbig Message-Id: <200106031910.f53JAXQ00265@RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] PnP Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 21:10:33 +0200 (CEST) > From: Martin Harriss > There are ISA NE2000 clone ethernet cards that can be set to be > configured either by PnP or by jumper or by a configuration program. I > see them all the time at computer shows here in the US; they may or may > not be available in Germany. The "setup" program accompaning the card didn't find the card. It says in the docs that the card is configurable by jumpers, but the card doesn't have any. It says in the docs, that the card is configured to IO-Address 0x300 and irq 5 if not changed by PnP software. This was not true. The card was simply inactive. So I gave up on ISA-PnP. > From: Dan Cross > Go with a PCI card would be my advice. And switched to PCI-PnP. At least their setup.exe let me configure the IRQ(5), and showed me that the IO base is fixed at 0x4000. So I put these values in plan9.ini rebooted and -- it worked! At least on the plan9 side of my two computer network. The other end now misses a PCI-ethernet card :-) Autoconfiguring PCI-versions of clone cards would increase the usability of Plan 9. Thanks for the replies, Wolfgang From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 4 04:31:03 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 4 04:31:03 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22010 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2001 04:39:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22006 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2001 04:39:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 04:39:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 30A60199EE; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 15:39:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (einstein.ssz.com [204.96.2.99]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2FCB5199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 15:38:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA05418 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 14:40:31 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: <20010601165732.016D8199EC@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] I forgot the date (Doh!) -- Austin, Tx.: Build Your Own Box Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 14:40:31 -0500 (CDT) Oye! Oye! Oye! Build Your Own Box! But Don't Do It Alone! Sponsored by ESSI, Hanger 18, The Austin Linux Group, Austin Cypherpunks, & LinuxLink, Inc. Pass it around!!!!!!!! (Yeah, this means you) Where you say? Saturday, June 9, 2001 Emperor Systems Dan Lee Vogler 2538 S. Congress Avenue #300 (3rd floor) 512-440-1132 plan9@hdtv.net Saturday, June 9, 2001 Noon until 6pm What is going on? We'll be helping build a variety of boxes and hosting some short talks and demonstrations. We're still working on the talk/demo's, but if you're interested in doing one then contact, Jim Choate ravage@ssz.com 512-451-7087 At least one of the talks will be by Stu Green (one of the founders of ALG) on his proposal for a 'Open Source Forge' here in Austin. Why would I be interested? The purpose of the BYOB is to help users of Plan 9 and Linux (or Inferno, or QNX, or BSD, or ...) to network in the community. We do this by helping people build their first box, update or upgrade an existing machine, or perhaps provide some other service to the user community (e.g. a talk on public key management). So, if you've a small business or a particular interest in some application you might want to consider giving a short (30 min. or up) talk or demonstration. Hangar 18 in particular is hoping to make considerable gains in providing a public access Plan 9 resource site through these activities. With regard to Plan 9 machines, we recommend the following minimums for a IO/Auth server (the 'entry' level server): K6 or Pentium One - 75MHz or better 32 Meg RAM or more 540 Meg ide HD or more S3 Virge or ATI Rage-128 PCI video card w/ 4Meg or more Intel or 3COM PCI NIC card THREE ( 3 ) button PS/2 mouse ( not a wheel mouse ) 4X or better ATAPI/ide CD-ROM drive. 1.44 Floppy Drive For more information on Plan 9 or the Hangar 18 Co-Op please visit, http://einstein.ssz.com/hangar18 Mr. OLU at Low Budget PC has all these parts "CHEAP" at 707-8044. (And no, they're not directly involved and we dont receive any sort of return for endorsment - not that this is mind you) Many thanks to Dan of Emperor Systems in providing a location to make this possible. With respect to refreshments, we ask everyone to try to bring something. Several of us are going to try and raise enough $$$ by donation to get a Chinese take out around 2pm for all attendee's. We currently have $60 donated. Please consider helping out in this fine culinary endeavour. See you there! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 4 05:28:02 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 4 05:28:02 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22447 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2001 05:36:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22443 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2001 05:36:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 05:36:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B83C7199EC; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 16:36:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (verlaine.noos.net [212.198.2.73]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AC370199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 16:35:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 43428916 invoked by uid 0); 3 Jun 2001 20:35:17 -0000 Received: from s232.dhcp212-198-183.noos.fr (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by verlaine.noos.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 3 Jun 2001 20:35:17 -0000 Message-ID: <023401c0ec6c$97d8e110$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010602214521.070C4199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] fax MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 22:34:31 +0200 From: "rob pike" > > switch($#*){ > case 0 1 > echo usage: $0 telephone-number recipient [files] > exit 0 > case 2 > stdin=yes > } exit 0? surely exit 1. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 4 05:32:04 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 4 05:32:04 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22494 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2001 05:40:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22490 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2001 05:40:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 05:40:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 41157199F2; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 16:40:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (verlaine.noos.net [212.198.2.73]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 78620199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 16:39:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 43861937 invoked by uid 0); 3 Jun 2001 20:39:00 -0000 Received: from s232.dhcp212-198-183.noos.fr (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by verlaine.noos.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 3 Jun 2001 20:39:00 -0000 Message-ID: <024601c0ec6d$1cca3c20$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200106031910.f53JAXQ00265@RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> Subject: Re: [9fans] PnP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 22:38:13 +0200 > The "setup" program accompaning the card didn't find the card. more vileness. does anyone remember when there were jumpers (or none) and was just plug, without the pray? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 4 05:36:06 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 4 05:36:06 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22516 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2001 05:44:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22512 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2001 05:44:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 05:44:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2C25B199F4; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 16:44:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A3CD4199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 16:43:22 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fax From: "rob pike" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010603204322.A3CD4199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 16:43:20 -0400 > exit 0? surely exit 1. Surely exit usage From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 4 06:19:06 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 4 06:19:06 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22783 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2001 06:27:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22779 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2001 06:27:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 06:27:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7BDE4199F2; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 17:27:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (zola.noos.net [212.198.2.76]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 807F4199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 17:26:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 41715505 invoked by uid 0); 3 Jun 2001 21:26:21 -0000 Received: from s232.dhcp212-198-183.noos.fr (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by zola.noos.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 3 Jun 2001 21:26:21 -0000 Message-ID: <02be01c0ec73$ba19efb0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010603204322.A3CD4199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] fax MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 23:25:35 +0200 > Surely > exit usage yup, just me being exits() impaired. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 4 17:40:07 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 4 17:40:07 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 6839 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2001 17:48:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6835 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2001 17:48:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 17:48:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8C0EE199F5; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 04:48:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE (isdn279.s.netic.de [212.9.163.23]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A9AC0199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 04:47:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from helbig@localhost) by RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f548o2A00272 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:50:02 +0200 (CEST) From: Wolfgang Helbig Message-Id: <200106040850.f548o2A00272@RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] CET Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:50:02 +0200 (CEST) Hi, The timezone file for CET is wrong. It switches to standard time on last sunday in September. Which is correct until 1995. Since 1996 the switch takes place on last sunday in October. If someone has a program to create the timezone files, please fix it. If not, I guess I will write such a program. Wolfgang From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 4 17:48:03 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 4 17:48:03 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 7110 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2001 17:56:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7106 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2001 17:56:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 17:56:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B08CB199FA; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 04:56:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (unknown [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 96984199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 04:55:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id KAA26487; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:51:30 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: inferno@research.suspicious.org, 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <20010604105127.C26399@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: inferno@research.suspicious.org, 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us Subject: [9fans] Authentication and "emu -d" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:51:27 +0200 Sorry about cross-posting, I'll try not to make a habit of it. I would like to start Inferno services on my 3ed Plan 9 compute server using "emu -d". Two things get in the way: (a) the ID of the server is "proxima" not "inferno" and that means that some facilities I previously set up are unavailable. Authentication is one of these. If I can track down the authentication keyfile, I may be able to change its permissions, but that seems insecure _and_ requires me to put the fileserver in "allow" mode, a mild pain. Is there a Plan 9 way of forcing "inferno" to execute "emu" instead of "proxima", or should I resort to making "inferno" the compute server owner (Plan 9 AUTH does not run on that compute server, I still use 2ed AUTH)? (hm: I did try auth/login - besides requiring to be interactive, it complains about being run on a compute server :-( OK, I have now reclassified the compute server so it is owned by "inferno". I hope I don't have cause to regret this. Admittedly, it does not seem important. (b) The -d options is wrongly documented: it expects an argument, one of 0, 1 or 2. It seems 1 works OK, but I'd like to know what the other values do. Also, starting "emu -d1" from cpurc seems to do ugly things to the keyboard/input interface, the console no longer echoes. And output should probably be redirected to a log file, too. Something for the manual pages? ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 4 17:53:03 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 4 17:53:03 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 7220 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2001 18:01:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7216 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2001 18:01:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 18:01:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 28305199FF; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 05:01:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AEB69199F8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 05:00:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 156q2o-0000ed-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 04 Jun 2001 09:49:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Hermann Samso Message-ID: <9f9b0n$8nj$1@newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de> Organization: Universitaet Hannover References: <20010601225409.1D11D199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] gcc x86 assembly help Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 08:48:31 GMT Russ Cox wrote: > Ishwar has been trying to compile drawterm on a > Linux 2.4 kernel. The drawterm code (like the Inferno > code before it) depends on the fact that there are > different TSS registers in each process in Linux, > but this changed in 2.4 so the Linux-specific code > broke. > He's now trying to use the pthread-specific code > (which works well under FreeBSD and Irix), but gets > a weird message from gcc about "impossible register > constraint in asm" on the x86 test-and-set code. Seems to me, as if it where more a gcc specific problem. I am having the same difficulties to compile some Atari-ST emulator. Would also appreciate any help. hermann samso From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 4 17:53:38 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 4 17:53:38 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 7246 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2001 18:02:02 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7242 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2001 18:02:02 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 18:02:02 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3933619A06; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 05:01:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B0F41199F8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 05:00:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 156q2o-0000ej-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 04 Jun 2001 09:49:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Tele Monster Message-ID: <3B18E872.73AA51B2@757.org> Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] SGI R3000 Plan9 source? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 08:48:43 GMT I was wondering if anyone has insight about the availiblity of Plan9 source for the R3000 indigo, or any Silicon Graphics sytem for the matter. If so, please email me off newsgroup at "telmnstr" followed by @, then 757.org. thanks. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 4 17:54:22 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 4 17:54:22 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 7263 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2001 18:02:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7259 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2001 18:02:46 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 18:02:46 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0E54E19A0B; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 05:01:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 96B62199F8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 05:00:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 156q2o-0000ep-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 04 Jun 2001 09:49:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Rory Savage Message-ID: Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] TELNET from Remote Linux machine? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 08:48:57 GMT I am new the Plan9 universe, so please don't flame me. Anyhow, I got IP based networking configured and working, and I was able to start tcp services. What I want/need is to have the ability to telnet into the CPU Server from a remote linux machine. I seem to be having an authtentication problem. When I telnet in to (try to) this is what happens; $ telnet 192.168.1.21 Trying 192.168.1.21... Connected to 192.168.1.21. Escape character is '^]'. user: rsavage password: password: password: password: password: authentication failure Connection closed by foreign host. What am I doing wrong? The funny thing is I don't even have a password on the system as it is, and when I try, I can't seem to make it work. I ran /bin/aux/listen il /bin/aux/listen tcp /bin/auth/keyfs and I got an error message ``can't read /dev/key, please enter machine key'' But /dev/key is owned by user `rsavage' in which I have started up the system as. Any ideas? I wish there was a detail book on Plan9 :) Thanks!! Path: not-for-mail From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 4 17:55:53 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 4 17:55:53 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 7290 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2001 18:04:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7286 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2001 18:04:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 18:04:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 089CF19A11; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 05:02:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE (isdn308.s.netic.de [212.9.163.52]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7A24619A04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 05:01:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from helbig@localhost) by RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f5494HJ00292 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 11:04:17 +0200 (CEST) From: Wolfgang Helbig Message-Id: <200106040904.f5494HJ00292@RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] german keyboard Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 11:04:17 +0200 (CEST) Hi, I adopted the scancode tables in kbd.c to my keyboard. Well kind of, the umlauts, sharp s and paragraph symbol are translated to their ASCII equivalents (i. e. €->|). If anyone wants it, feel free to contact me. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 4 18:09:04 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 4 18:09:04 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 7528 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2001 18:17:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7524 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2001 18:17:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 18:17:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A86D199F8; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 05:17:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (caldo.demon.co.uk [194.222.207.148]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 07ABF199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 05:16:37 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Authentication and "emu -d" From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010604091637.07ABF199D5@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:12:34 +0100 that really is inferno-specific, so we'll answer it in detail on that list. i'd thought we left -d deliberately undocumented but i see it is there in the manual page after all. >>Also, starting "emu -d1" from cpurc seems to do ugly things to the >>keyboard/input interface, the console no longer echoes. And output >>should probably be redirected to a log file, too. Something for the this is just the superficial reason i intended to leave it undocumented. it was left in the code because one group might have been using it at the time, under Solaris, for which it was originally hacked in (where hacked is the right description), in a hurry. i suppose you could wonder: if it can't cope with the console correctly, how is it likely to do on the hard bits? that gets close to the truth. it does only what it was intended to do, but doesn't go far enough, even though they did hire a web page designer! anyway, someone will send more about it to the inferno list later. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 4 18:42:00 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 4 18:42:00 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 8180 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2001 18:50:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8176 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2001 18:50:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 18:50:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A8C76199F8; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 05:50:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F3A1E199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 05:49:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id LAA26593 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 11:45:59 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Authentication and "emu -d" Message-ID: <20010604114557.D26399@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20010604091637.07ABF199D5@mail.cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <20010604091637.07ABF199D5@mail.cse.psu.edu>; from forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk on Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 10:12:34AM +0100 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 11:45:57 +0200 On Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 10:12:34AM +0100, forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk wrote: > > that really is inferno-specific, so we'll answer it in detail on that list. > > i'd thought we left -d deliberately undocumented > but i see it is there in the manual page after all. > Security by obscurity (or, in this case, "d" for disinformation :-) You'll eventually be pleased to have been caught with your pants down, the idea is good, definitely in the list of nice-to-haves. > >>Also, starting "emu -d1" from cpurc seems to do ugly things to the > >>keyboard/input interface, the console no longer echoes. And output > >>should probably be redirected to a log file, too. Something for the > > this is just the superficial reason i intended to leave it > undocumented. it was left in the code because one group might have > been using it at the time, under Solaris, for which it was originally > hacked in (where hacked is the right description), in a hurry. i > suppose you could wonder: if it can't cope with the console correctly, > how is it likely to do on the hard bits? that gets close to the > truth. it does only what it was intended to do, > but doesn't go far enough, even though they did hire a web page designer! > anyway, someone will send more about it to the inferno list later. Well, _I'm_ using it, on a CPU server that sits practically headless (and could be headless if I had more faith - Microsoft keep rattling my faith and it bleeds over all the other OSs in my life :-) It will be just fine the way it is, and as soon as "I can get my pennies together for the source licence (TM)" I'll see if I can help smooth some of the wrinkles out. Just of the record , would "emu -d1 /dev/null >[2=1]" break, or can I safely try it without losing what little mind I still have left? (My answer to that, in your shoes, might be "you tell us", but I'm going to need some encouragement to tackle such obviously tangential operations, I don't do elective surgery :-) ++L PS: Re-reading your answer, it would seem that "emu" has two closely coupled functions that could do with some decoupling, namely "dis" emulation and graphics (I'm reading between the lines, I get the feeling "emu -d"'s failing lies in the management of interaction with its environment). Perhaps discarding the graphics baggage is an option? Sounds tough to do, for little gain, but there's something to be said for text-only interactions, and Plan 9 ain't going that way, perhaps Inferno can. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 4 19:03:00 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 4 19:03:00 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 8555 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2001 19:11:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8551 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2001 19:11:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 19:11:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ADE68199FA; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 06:11:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (caldo.demon.co.uk [194.222.207.148]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9893F199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 06:10:17 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Authentication and "emu -d" From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010604101017.9893F199D5@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 11:06:18 +0100 >>PS: Re-reading your answer, it would seem that "emu" has two closely >>coupled functions that could do with some decoupling, namely "dis" >>emulation and graphics (I'm reading between the lines, I get the >>feeling "emu -d"'s failing lies in the management of interaction with >>its environment). Perhaps discarding the graphics baggage is an >>option? Sounds tough to do, for little gain, but there's something to >>be said for text-only interactions, and Plan 9 ain't going that way, >>perhaps Inferno can. no, not at all, that's easy to sort out. it's the authentication that worries me. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 4 19:33:00 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 4 19:33:00 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 9051 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2001 19:41:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9047 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2001 19:41:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 19:41:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C9A3A199FC; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 06:41:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E5491199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 06:40:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id MAA26681 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 12:36:31 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Authentication and "emu -d" Message-ID: <20010604123628.F26399@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20010604101017.9893F199D5@mail.cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <20010604101017.9893F199D5@mail.cse.psu.edu>; from forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk on Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 11:06:18AM +0100 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 12:36:29 +0200 On Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 11:06:18AM +0100, forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk wrote: > > no, not at all, that's easy to sort out. > it's the authentication that worries me. Silly me, I should have figured it out. In other mail, you advised against using "emu" setuid(root). Thinking aloud, this would require logging in to emu rather than wm/logon so that emu could drop its rights as early as possible. Another option might be to drop rights (to nobody, or thereabouts) immediately, and regain them for the prompt (ugly, the user is quite literally in Limbo in between, but emuinit.dis could solve that), switching to the logged in user thereafter. I believe this is possible with saved-ids (uglier and uglier) but I'm hardly the expert. How one does this in Plan 9 is not clear to me, but if Plan 9 does not provide the facility (possibly only on compute servers), then it's a serious shortcoming. "emu -d" under Plan 9 is OK, as long as it can match the native user space. But that parallels the Unix model quite closely, without the intrusion of "nobody/none" as a temporary measure because of its background only operation. To answer Digby Tarvin's question, then, Inferno (under Plan 9) should be targetted for installation on a CPU server and effectively provide only very limited services from workstations to potential clients. Under other OSs, parallel models of operations may apply (beware of "System" and "Administrator" under WinNT (I think 2k is the same) which are scary concepts). Certainly, the concept of hosted users, in a distributed, hosted processing environment, is a touch problematic, and that's clearly an understatement. Certainly it is unavoidable that the Inferno user space has to be a subset of the host's, and in a heterogenous environment that's interesting at the very least (nightmarish would be closer to the truth). ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 4 19:56:01 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 4 19:56:01 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 9384 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2001 20:04:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9380 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2001 20:04:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 20:04:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D2A9C199FF; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 07:04:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dumbass (unknown [207.137.146.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 19D1B199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 07:03:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by dumbass with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 04:03:04 -0700 From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Jun 2001 11:03:04.0425 (UTC) FILETIME=[ED98BD90:01C0ECE5] Subject: [9fans] Your Daily Joke From Jay's Jokes! Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 04:03:04 -0700 Jay's Jokes -- http://jaysjokes.com/-- Presents: Jay 's Jokes Daily Joke *********************************************************** For more Adult Content Jokes, go to http://JaysJokes.com Please feel free to forward these jokes to friends, but please keep the headers intact so others can subscribe! Subcribe and unsubscribe information is located at the end of this email. The Daily Joke and JaysJokes.com are sponsored by Wiseguy Software (http://www.wiseguysoftware.com) *********************************************************** MILLENNIUM VOCABULARY The latest terms to add to your vocabulary in the Y2K office environment: * Seagull Manager - A manager who flies in, makes a lot of noise, craps over everything and then leaves. * Salmon day - The experience of spending an entire day swimming upstream only to get screwed and die in the end. * Chainsaw consultant - An outside expert brought in to reduce the employee head count, leaving the brass with clean hands. * CLM - Career Limiting Move - Used among microserfs to describe ill-advised activity. Trashing your boss while he or she is within earshot is a serious CLM. * Adminisphere - The rarefied organizational layers beginning just above the rank and file. 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To unsubscribe, go to http://jaysjokes.com/unsubscribe.asp From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 4 20:44:01 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 4 20:44:01 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 9924 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2001 20:52:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9920 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2001 20:52:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 20:52:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0E1CA19A0B; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 07:52:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailhost1.dircon.co.uk (mailhost1.dircon.co.uk [194.112.32.65]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 83D4D19A01 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 07:51:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from starfruit.iw3d.co.uk (starfruit.iw3d.co.uk [195.157.148.202]) by mailhost1.dircon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00692 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 12:51:21 +0100 (BST) Received: from coconut.iwks.multi.local ([10.79.1.54]) by starfruit.iw3d.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 156sis-0004RJ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 04 Jun 2001 12:40:38 +0100 From: Theo Honohan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] which linux! which gcc! In-Reply-To: References: <200106021653.SAA25202@rackham.cd.chalmers.se> Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 12:55:30 +0100 On Saturday 2 June, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > > now, how many people are interested in seeing opengl for plan9? i have that > weird idea that it may look great and actually have bragging value :) > > pros? cons? Well, getting *an* OpenGL implementation running shouldn't be hard -- the SGI reference implementation is now open, along with Mesa, and they're both in C. A GLUT implementation for Rio would be the next thing. I can see it being tougher to integrate cleanly with Rio and /dev/draw (and I expect that some degree of integration would be required to allow hardware acceleration). If you want to create a /dev/draw style "/dev/gl" file interface, you'll probably find yourself redesigning and reimplementing the GLX protocol, with a few incompatible changes. (The GLX protocol is documented in the GLX source archive available from SGI's Open Source site.) There's quite a bit of reinvention of the wheel required for you to be able run GL applications across the network in a plan 9 way. Theo From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 4 20:49:00 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 4 20:49:00 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 10007 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2001 20:57:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10003 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2001 20:57:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 20:57:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6684C19A11; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 07:57:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id BCBC019A01 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 07:56:36 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Authentication and "emu -d" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-barnoxprakklfdproptmyejdwv" Message-Id: <20010604115636.BCBC019A01@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 07:56:35 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-barnoxprakklfdproptmyejdwv Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you want something running as a user that a system can't authenticate as, you can always start it from cron instead of cpurc or listen. --upas-barnoxprakklfdproptmyejdwv Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Jun 4 04:56:25 EDT 2001 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Mon Jun 4 04:56:24 EDT 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE320199F9; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 04:56:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (unknown [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 96984199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 04:55:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id KAA26487; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:51:30 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: inferno@research.suspicious.org, 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <20010604105127.C26399@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: inferno@research.suspicious.org, 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us Subject: [9fans] Authentication and "emu -d" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:51:27 +0200 Sorry about cross-posting, I'll try not to make a habit of it. I would like to start Inferno services on my 3ed Plan 9 compute server using "emu -d". Two things get in the way: (a) the ID of the server is "proxima" not "inferno" and that means that some facilities I previously set up are unavailable. Authentication is one of these. If I can track down the authentication keyfile, I may be able to change its permissions, but that seems insecure _and_ requires me to put the fileserver in "allow" mode, a mild pain. Is there a Plan 9 way of forcing "inferno" to execute "emu" instead of "proxima", or should I resort to making "inferno" the compute server owner (Plan 9 AUTH does not run on that compute server, I still use 2ed AUTH)? (hm: I did try auth/login - besides requiring to be interactive, it complains about being run on a compute server :-( OK, I have now reclassified the compute server so it is owned by "inferno". I hope I don't have cause to regret this. Admittedly, it does not seem important. (b) The -d options is wrongly documented: it expects an argument, one of 0, 1 or 2. It seems 1 works OK, but I'd like to know what the other values do. Also, starting "emu -d1" from cpurc seems to do ugly things to the keyboard/input interface, the console no longer echoes. And output should probably be redirected to a log file, too. Something for the manual pages? ++L --upas-barnoxprakklfdproptmyejdwv-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 4 21:07:04 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 4 21:07:04 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 10178 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2001 21:15:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10174 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2001 21:15:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 21:15:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4778919A01; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 08:15:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 87F6B199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 08:14:42 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: rsavage@nandomedia.com, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] TELNET from Remote Linux machine? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010604121442.87F6B199D5@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 08:14:39 -0400 That's odd, I would expect it to be saying user: rsavage challenge: 76540 response: and not password. It only asks for passwords from a select group of users, those in the group 'noworld': grep :noworld: /adm/users If you can figure out why you're getting password: please tell us. You can bug telnetd with a few syslog's to figure out what's going on. I'm at a loss. Telnet has fallen out of use here since ssh but we definitely don't see what you see. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 4 21:23:00 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 4 21:23:00 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 10368 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2001 21:31:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10364 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2001 21:31:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 21:31:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1274319A04; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 08:31:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from storm.nando.net (lyris.nando.net [152.52.2.139]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF7E8199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 08:30:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from storm.nando.net (storm.nando.net [152.52.2.139]) by storm.nando.net (Pro-8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA27104 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 08:29:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Rory Savage X-Sender: rsavage@storm.nando.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] TELNET from Remote Linux machine? In-Reply-To: <200106041213.IAA26554@storm.nando.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 08:29:06 -0400 (EDT) I will let you know. I'm at work now, and can't access the system because it's powered off. Thanks for the quick response :) -- Rory Savage, Senior Systems Administrator Nando Media: www.nandomedia.com email: rsavage@nandomedia.com 919-836-5987 (Office) On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, it was written: > That's odd, I would expect it to be saying > > user: rsavage > challenge: 76540 > response: > > and not password. It only asks for passwords from a select > group of users, those in the group 'noworld': > grep :noworld: /adm/users > > If you can figure out why you're getting password: please tell > us. You can bug telnetd with a few syslog's to figure out > what's going on. I'm at a loss. Telnet has fallen out of > use here since ssh but we definitely don't see what you see. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 5 00:01:00 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 5 00:01:00 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 12410 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2001 00:09:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12406 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2001 00:09:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2001 00:09:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C000319A11; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 11:09:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 45E4C199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 11:08:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00035 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 11:08:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id LAA16609; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 11:08:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200106041508.LAA16609@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Your Daily Joke From Jay's Jokes! Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 11:08:30 -0400 (EDT) In article you write: >Jay's Jokes -- http://jaysjokes.com/-- >Presents: > >Jay 's Jokes Daily Joke > > [snip; a slew of *really bad* jokes elided] > I unsubscribed 9fans from this terrible crime against comedy. Whoever subscribed it in the first place, please do everyone a favor and don't do that again. Or any other joke list, for that matter; it's off topic and inappropriate. Thanks, - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 5 01:25:03 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 5 01:25:03 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 13344 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2001 01:33:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13340 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2001 01:33:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2001 01:33:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C7E8B19A11; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 12:33:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pali.cps.cmich.edu (pali.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.131.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 54090199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 12:32:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ishwar@localhost) by pali.cps.cmich.edu (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f54GXo722144 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 12:33:50 -0400 From: Ish Rattan To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Mial on cpu/auth server Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 12:33:50 -0400 (EDT) I see the follwing messages in /sys/log/cron host Jun 4 06:52:04 upas: key not found similar message generated every 10 minutes. What key is it referring to? - ishwar From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 5 02:10:01 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 5 02:10:01 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 13774 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2001 02:18:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13770 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2001 02:18:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2001 02:18:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5C69719A13; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 13:18:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B7D43199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 13:17:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([24.0.68.120]) by femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010604171739.IVMO8623.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@localhost> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:17:39 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.388) From: Jonathan Sergent To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v388) In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [9fans] Mial on cpu/auth server Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010604171739.IVMO8623.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@localhost> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:17:43 -0700 On Monday, June 4, 2001, at 09:33 AM, Ish Rattan wrote: > I see the follwing messages in /sys/log/cron > > host Jun 4 06:52:04 upas: key not found > > similar message generated every 10 minutes. What key is it referring to? The one for upas. auth/changeuser upas to give it a key so that cron can authenticate as upas. cron must run only on your auth server so that it can authenticate as the right user. It does an rx to the target host to run the command. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 5 02:11:01 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 5 02:11:01 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 13784 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2001 02:19:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13780 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2001 02:19:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2001 02:19:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F12A119A17; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 13:19:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cosym.net (sdsl-64-7-3-116.dsl.nyc.megapath.net [64.7.3.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9C85C199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 13:18:49 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Mial on cpu/auth server From: anothy@cosym.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-hadtpulpjcogobshncfzwieemd" Message-Id: <20010604171849.9C85C199D5@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 13:18:40 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-hadtpulpjcogobshncfzwieemd Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit //host Jun 4 06:52:04 upas: key not found it's complaining that it can't authenticate. this is most likely because "upas" isn't a user in your auth database. either create a user upas or move the entries in /cron/upas/cron to whoever's the postmaster (what i did). -α. --upas-hadtpulpjcogobshncfzwieemd Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by cosym.net; Mon Jun 4 12:33:16 EDT 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 80A49199D5; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 12:33:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pali.cps.cmich.edu (pali.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.131.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 54090199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 12:32:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ishwar@localhost) by pali.cps.cmich.edu (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f54GXo722144 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 12:33:50 -0400 From: Ish Rattan To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Mial on cpu/auth server Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 12:33:50 -0400 (EDT) I see the follwing messages in /sys/log/cron host Jun 4 06:52:04 upas: key not found similar message generated every 10 minutes. What key is it referring to? - ishwar --upas-hadtpulpjcogobshncfzwieemd-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 5 03:16:00 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 5 03:16:00 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 14211 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2001 03:24:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14207 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2001 03:24:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2001 03:24:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D43951998A; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 14:24:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pali.cps.cmich.edu (pali.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.131.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2A11F1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 14:23:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ishwar@localhost) by pali.cps.cmich.edu (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f54IOpw22201 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 14:24:51 -0400 From: Ish Rattan To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Mail on cpu/auth server In-Reply-To: <20010604171739.IVMO8623.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 14:24:51 -0400 (EDT) On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, Jonathan Sergent wrote: > On Monday, June 4, 2001, at 09:33 AM, Ish Rattan wrote: > > > I see the follwing messages in /sys/log/cron > > > > host Jun 4 06:52:04 upas: key not found > > > > similar message generated every 10 minutes. What key is it referring to? > > The one for upas. auth/changeuser upas to give it a key so that cron > can authenticate as upas. cron must run only on your auth server so > that it can authenticate as the right user. It does an rx to the target > host to run the command. An attempt to use auth/changeuser upas Passord: Confirm ..: keysfs: bad status key in file ... 6 keys read Post id: Did 3/27/01 upgrade has anything to do with it? Also, what happens if I just remove adm/keys and /adm/keys.who and recreate them with auth/changeuser??? - ishwar From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 5 04:27:01 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 5 04:27:01 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 14868 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2001 04:35:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14864 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2001 04:35:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2001 04:35:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8C27419A13; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 15:35:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from folly.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (muedi6-212-144-218-200.arcor-ip.net [212.144.218.200]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 916B7199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 15:34:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by folly.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 31451) id C52E255EC; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 17:44:44 +0200 (CEST) From: Markus Friedl To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] CET Message-ID: <20010604174444.A14866@folly> References: <200106040850.f548o2A00272@RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200106040850.f548o2A00272@RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE>; from helbig@Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE on Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 10:50:02AM +0200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 17:44:44 +0200 i did post a fixed CET file back in 1995, please check the mailling list archive. -m On Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 10:50:02AM +0200, Wolfgang Helbig wrote: > Hi, > > The timezone file for CET is wrong. > It switches to standard time on last sunday in September. > Which is correct until 1995. > Since 1996 the switch takes place on last sunday in October. > > If someone has a program to create the timezone files, > please fix it. > > If not, I guess I will write such a program. > > Wolfgang From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 5 06:50:02 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 5 06:50:02 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 15806 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2001 06:58:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15802 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2001 06:58:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2001 06:58:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9AD4619A1D; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 17:58:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (mta05-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.45]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CC97319A13 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 17:57:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010604215700.VRPE4151.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 22:57:00 +0100 Message-ID: <006201c0ed41$4328d320$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200105311301.OAA08128@pw001.proweb.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9 can't fly MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 22:56:51 +0100 just to follow up, I got a new case and everything worked fine. Must be my lucky day. Matt From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 5 13:16:58 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 5 13:16:58 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 23503 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2001 13:25:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23499 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2001 13:25:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2001 13:25:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D84B519A1D; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 00:25:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ETLA.NET (c61066-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.1.50.197]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 70D2F1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 00:24:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Jonathan Sergent To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Mail on cpu/auth server MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-pasviempjnmzynqogylnuxxokc" Message-Id: <20010605042424.70D2F1998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 21:23:02 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-pasviempjnmzynqogylnuxxokc Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit changeuser doesn't edit the keys file directly; it uses keyfs. Probably rewhack your auth server by losing the keys file and try again. Make sure keyfs is actually decrypting the keys file correctly. If the password you give at boot is wrong, it won't be able to do this. ("Wrong" means "not the same key that it waas using when it wrote the file".) Look in your logs for messages from keyfs. --upas-pasviempjnmzynqogylnuxxokc Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by ETLA.NET; Mon Jun 4 11:24:16 PDT 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2E9D519A08; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 14:24:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pali.cps.cmich.edu (pali.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.131.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2A11F1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 14:23:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ishwar@localhost) by pali.cps.cmich.edu (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f54IOpw22201 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 14:24:51 -0400 From: Ish Rattan To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Mail on cpu/auth server In-Reply-To: <20010604171739.IVMO8623.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 14:24:51 -0400 (EDT) On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, Jonathan Sergent wrote: > On Monday, June 4, 2001, at 09:33 AM, Ish Rattan wrote: > > > I see the follwing messages in /sys/log/cron > > > > host Jun 4 06:52:04 upas: key not found > > > > similar message generated every 10 minutes. What key is it referring to? > > The one for upas. auth/changeuser upas to give it a key so that cron > can authenticate as upas. cron must run only on your auth server so > that it can authenticate as the right user. It does an rx to the target > host to run the command. An attempt to use auth/changeuser upas Passord: Confirm ..: keysfs: bad status key in file ... 6 keys read Post id: Did 3/27/01 upgrade has anything to do with it? Also, what happens if I just remove adm/keys and /adm/keys.who and recreate them with auth/changeuser??? - ishwar --upas-pasviempjnmzynqogylnuxxokc-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 5 15:57:09 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 5 15:57:09 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 27875 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2001 16:05:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27871 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2001 16:05:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2001 16:05:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 721DA19A21; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 03:05:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 53254199E7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 03:04:04 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: F.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010605070404.53254199E7@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] on the way to suspend the bitsy Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 09:13:07 +0200 Hi, I just found that I had to update my bootldr (even though the version I had before seemed to have suspend code in). According to what I've read, the 2.13.x can hang the ipaq and turn it into paperweight. I've installed 2.14.x. After testing it w/ linux, this one suspend From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 5 16:03:59 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 5 16:03:59 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 28045 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2001 16:12:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28041 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2001 16:12:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2001 16:12:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 566FF19A25; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 03:12:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id BCF2E199E7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 03:11:26 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: F.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010605071126.BCF2E199E7@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] on the way to suspend the bitsy Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 09:20:36 +0200 [Please, forget my previous post, I did hit Post instead of |fmt, sorry.] Hi, I just found that I had to update my bootldr (even though the version I had before seemed to have suspend code in). According to what I've read, the 2.13.x can hang the ipaq and turn it into paperweight. I've installed 2.14.5. After testing it w/ linux, this one suspends it right. Now I'm in the process of booting plan 9 with this version of the bootldr. They have added magic numbers to the kernel (including the entry point address and file size) and since the arm inflate does not have such bits in, the loader refuses to load 9bitsy. I'm looking into /sys/src/boot/arm/il.s and the linux head.s (their il.s) to see if I can get those magic numbers in. Once that be done, yet another thing to get pm working is to replace the stuff in power.c It should work according to the manual, but looks like it does not according to the sa1110 bug workarounds in the linux code (just looks like the ram is not kept in good shape in the bitsy if we just do what the manual says). hth From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 5 17:22:57 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 5 17:22:57 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 29995 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2001 17:31:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29991 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2001 17:31:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2001 17:31:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE76919A25; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 04:31:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D047199E7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 04:30:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 157CD0-0003fE-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 05 Jun 2001 09:29:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Alexander Povolotsky Message-ID: <9fh4ks$5ou@nntpb.cb.lucent.com> Organization: Lucent Technologies, Columbus, Ohio References: <20010604171739.IVMO8623.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@localhost>, Subject: Re: [9fans] Mail on cpu/auth server Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 08:26:51 GMT When I am creating a new user (say guest) using auth/changeuser I could see this message Ishwar mentioned: keysfs: bad status key in file But at least it creates the keyfile and creates the password ... For already existant users (glenda, adm, sys etc ) I somehow lost keys at some point (do not remember exactly how ...) and now if I am trying to recreate keys for those users using auth/changeuser - it fails with the error message: changeuser: can't create user "such and such": access permission denied. By the way, I do not have password set for those preexistant ones - how I could set password for those ? So, anyway, now I could reboot the system and log as guest with supplying the password ... Ok, I am looged in ... Running auth/keyfs -p Password: Works ...kind of ... but with the warning again: bad status in key file ... Ok ... going further ... aux/listen tcp auth/listen -t /rc/bin/service.auth No errors or warnings ... Now I am starting the drawterm on my Solaris machine: yarmouth$ drawterm -a 135.17.241.14 -c 135.17.241.14 default depth=8 yarmouth$ !! drawterm -a 135.17.241.14 -c 135.17.241.14 default depth=8 The drawterm window shows up with user "none" - changing to guest .. Supplying the password ... Getting ... ?AS protocol botch: file does not exist. Any hints ? "Ish Rattan" wrote in message news:Pine.LNX.4.30.0106041419420.22193-100000@pali.cps.cmich.edu... > On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, Jonathan Sergent wrote: > > > On Monday, June 4, 2001, at 09:33 AM, Ish Rattan wrote: > > > > > I see the follwing messages in /sys/log/cron > > > > > > host Jun 4 06:52:04 upas: key not found > > > > > > similar message generated every 10 minutes. What key is it referring to? > > > > The one for upas. auth/changeuser upas to give it a key so that cron > > can authenticate as upas. cron must run only on your auth server so > > that it can authenticate as the right user. It does an rx to the target > > host to run the command. > An attempt to use auth/changeuser upas > Passord: > Confirm ..: > keysfs: bad status key in file > ... > 6 keys read > Post id: > > Did 3/27/01 upgrade has anything to do with it? > > Also, what happens if I just remove adm/keys and /adm/keys.who and > recreate them with auth/changeuser??? > > - ishwar From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 5 19:01:57 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 5 19:01:57 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 31800 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2001 19:10:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31796 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2001 19:10:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2001 19:10:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BBB9519A25; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 06:10:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 87B3F199E7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 06:09:21 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: F.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-bzscccupdscdbrszomefyyqfwf" Message-Id: <20010605100921.87B3F199E7@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] fix to boot 9bitsy with recent compaq's bootldr Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 12:18:24 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-bzscccupdscdbrszomefyyqfwf Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, This change to /sys/src/boot/arm/il.s makes bootldr-2.14.5 think that 9bitsy is a kernel to boot. Otherwise bootldr would refuse to load it (AFAIK). The only change is actually: TEXT _start(SB), $-4 MOVW $setR12(SB), R12 /* load the SB */ ! MOVW $1, R0 /* dance to make 5l think that the magic */ MOVW $1, R1 /* numbers in WORDs below are being used */ CMP.S R0, R1 /* and to align them to where bootldr wants */ BEQ _start2 WORD $0x016f2818 /* magic number to say we are a kernel */ WORD $0xc0008000 /* entry point address */ WORD $0 /* size?, or end of data? */ _start2: ... The 0x016f2818 must be at offset 0x24, the entry point at 0x28. I attach the whole file in any case. --upas-bzscccupdscdbrszomefyyqfwf Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=il.s Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit #include "mem.h" /* * Entered here from Compaq's bootldr. First relocate to * the location we're linked for and then copy back the * decompressed kernel. * * All */ TEXT _start(SB), $-4 MOVW $setR12(SB), R12 /* load the SB */ MOVW $1, R0 /* dance to make 5l think that the magic */ MOVW $1, R1 /* numbers in WORDs below are being used */ CMP.S R0, R1 /* and to align them to where bootldr wants */ BEQ _start2 WORD $0x016f2818 /* magic number to say we are a kernel */ WORD $0xc0008000 /* entry point address */ WORD $0 /* size?, or end of data? */ _start2: /* SVC mode, interrupts disabled */ MOVW $(PsrDirq|PsrDfiq|PsrMsvc), R1 MOVW R1, CPSR /* disable the MMU */ MOVW $0x130, R1 MCR CpMMU, 0, R1, C(CpControl), C(0x0) /* enable caches */ MRC CpMMU, 0, R0, C(CpControl), C(0x0) ORR $(CpCdcache|CpCicache|CpCwb), R0 MCR CpMMU, 0, R0, C(CpControl), C(0x0) /* flush caches */ MCR CpMMU, 0, R0, C(CpCacheFlush), C(0x7), 0 /* drain prefetch */ MOVW R0,R0 MOVW R0,R0 MOVW R0,R0 MOVW R0,R0 /* drain write buffer */ MCR CpMMU, 0, R0, C(CpCacheFlush), C(0xa), 4 /* relocate to where we expect to be */ MOVW $(512*1024),R3 MOVW $0xC0008000,R1 MOVW $0xC0200000,R2 ADD R1,R3 _relloop: MOVW (R1),R0 MOVW R0,(R2) ADD $4,R1 ADD $4,R2 CMP.S R1,R3 BNE _relloop MOVW $(MACHADDR+BY2PG), R13 /* stack */ SUB $4, R13 /* link */ /* jump to where we've been relocated */ MOVW $_relocated(SB),R15 TEXT _relocated(SB),$-4 BL main(SB) BL exit(SB) /* we shouldn't get here */ _mainloop: B _mainloop BL _div(SB) /* hack to get _div etc loaded */ TEXT mypc(SB),$-4 MOVW R14,R0 RET TEXT draincache(SB),$-4 /* write back any dirty data */ MOVW $0xe0000000,R0 ADD $(8*1024),R0,R1 _cfloop: MOVW.P 32(R0),R2 CMP.S R0,R1 BNE _cfloop /* drain write buffer and invalidate i&d cache contents */ MCR CpMMU, 0, R0, C(CpCacheFlush), C(0xa), 4 MCR CpMMU, 0, R0, C(CpCacheFlush), C(0x7), 0 /* drain prefetch */ MOVW R0,R0 MOVW R0,R0 MOVW R0,R0 MOVW R0,R0 /* disable caches */ MRC CpMMU, 0, R0, C(CpControl), C(0x0) BIC $(CpCdcache|CpCicache|CpCwb), R0 MCR CpMMU, 0, R0, C(CpControl), C(0x0) RET --upas-bzscccupdscdbrszomefyyqfwf-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 5 20:11:58 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 5 20:11:58 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 381 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2001 20:20:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 377 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2001 20:20:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2001 20:20:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 432F619A26; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 07:20:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 641B319A12 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 07:19:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 157Elu-0000nx-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 05 Jun 2001 12:13:14 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Pradeep Picardo Message-ID: <9fjhol$bg$1@news.vsnl.net.in> Organization: VSNL Subject: [9fans] DELL Optiplex Video problem (Intel 810). Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 11:12:37 GMT Has anyone run plan9 on a Dell Optiplex GX110 ( intel 810 video chipset ) ? I want to install, but am not able to because rio does not run. -pradeep. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The doer of good rejoices here and hereafter; he rejoices in both the worlds. 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------=_NextPart_000_00EA_01C0EDC1.C5A50050-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 6 00:59:59 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 6 00:59:59 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 3194 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2001 01:08:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3190 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 01:08:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 01:08:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 874AD19A38; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 12:08:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cosym.net (sdsl-64-7-3-116.dsl.nyc.megapath.net [64.7.3.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 549B8199E7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 12:07:31 -0400 (EDT) From: anothy@cosym.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20010605160731.549B8199E7@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] excel2txt? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 12:07:28 -0400 anyone have anything that'll do to excel spreadsheets what doc2txt does to Word documents? olefs mounts it fine, but the resulting Workbook file contains things in no discernable order. -α. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 6 01:13:57 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 6 01:13:57 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 3323 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2001 01:22:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3319 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 01:22:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 01:22:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CBF8419A3D; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 12:22:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cosym.net (sdsl-64-7-3-116.dsl.nyc.megapath.net [64.7.3.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C27D1199E7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 12:21:44 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Paul C Lustgarten MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010605162144.C27D1199E7@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] stand-alone fileserver of little value Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 12:21:43 -0400 Yesterday, I empirically confirmed what many of us have long suspected: a Plan 9 fileserver with no networking is not a highly valuable resource. :-) This discovery was not, however, the original objective of my day's work. Rather, it appears that there's a bug in the fileserver kernel, in /sys/src/fs/plan9pc/ether82557.c. The speed of the Ethernet connection is not initialized to the default value of 10, causing a 10Mbps Ethernet interface to be regarded as having speed 0, and consequently ignored. Since this is what I have for the moment, my fileserver was running in stand-alone mode. :-( Adding ether->mbps = 10; arround line 910 of the file (just after the Eeprom[6] comment) seems to correct the problem. The cpu/terminal kernels seem to provide a default value for this field in a single place for all Ethernet types, while the fileserver kernel doesn't. ---------- Separately, my new fileserver is also behaving strangely in its processing of commands at the console. There is a 3-6 second delay following each command (such as "date" or "who"), as well as following each line of output for more complex commands, such as "cpu" or "help" (!). During the delay, type-ahead is lost. Also, the cpu command shows process 21 ("con") as running pretty much continuously, and a trace on the not-yet-used system shows processes 5-20 waiting for some resource, contrary to the man page's guidance that a trace on a quiescent system will have no output. Anyone have any ideas what could be causing this delay? My two suspicions are (a) I need to pull the (unused by 9pcfs) audio card, and/or (b) the second Pentium II (333MHz) on the motherboard is causing some active interferance, rather than simply staying out of the way as I was hoping/expecting. Btw, the box runs just fine as either a terminal or cpu server (both diskless), which I tried again yesterday in tracking down the Ethernet bug. Config: The box is a dual Pentium II, Diamond 2000 video, with a Buslogic SCSI controller, with a 4 GB and a 36 GB disk. As a file server, I have the 4 GB disk split 50/50 between cache and "other", with the 36 GB disk as a pseudo-WORM. Oh, and the 36 GB disk has an 80-pin SCA connector, with an 80-to-50 pin adapter connecting it to my SCSI-I bus. (Hey, it was only $200 on eBay for a Seagate 36 GB SCSI disk, and another $20 for the adapter.) Could the SCA & adapter be causing this kind of problem? Thanks, Paul From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 6 01:15:02 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 6 01:15:02 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 3332 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2001 01:23:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3328 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 01:23:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 01:23:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 512DA19A5C; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 12:23:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pali.cps.cmich.edu (pali.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.131.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 44C31199E7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 12:22:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ishwar@localhost) by pali.cps.cmich.edu (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f55GNlb24172 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 12:23:47 -0400 From: Ish Rattan To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Subject: [9fans] keys again Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 12:23:47 -0400 (EDT) I removed the files /adm/keys and /adm/keys.who and recreated keys using /auth/changeuser for each user in /adm/users.. /sys/log/cron still shows hostname Jun 5 11:56:12: upas: key not found command auth/keysfs -p (after killing keyfs process) starts new keysfs but it complains keyfs: warning: bad status in key file (903 times.., there are not that many users??) also entries in /mnt/keys are of the form and there are 1031 entries? --- =14#n4@}=C2=80=17w=C2=80=C2=80T=C2=80=C2=80=1DA *=C2=80=C2=80=C2=80=C2=80=C2=80=C2=80=C2=80=C2=80=1C=C2=80] R6KUL=012=C2=80=C2=80=C2=80i=C2=80=C2=80=C2=80auth --- keyfs man page says that #r/nvram holds keys too, how does one clear that? Any ideas? -ishwar From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 6 01:25:58 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 6 01:25:58 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 3434 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2001 01:34:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3430 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 01:34:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 01:34:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ECA3E19A5E; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 12:34:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Princeton.EDU (postoffice.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.120]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9F713199E7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 12:33:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU (smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.65]) by Princeton.EDU (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05644 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 12:33:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from princeton.edu (albion.Princeton.EDU [128.112.234.82]) by smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00608 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 12:33:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B1D09E4.9A54ABE5@princeton.edu> From: Martin Harriss Organization: Princeton University CIT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] HP surestore optical 20xt??? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 12:33:40 -0400 Anyone know if an HP SureStore Optical 20XT would work with the fileserver code? It's a small juke box, only one drive, but I figured it should be ok for a "personal" file server... Martin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 6 02:47:58 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 6 02:47:58 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 4115 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2001 02:56:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4111 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 02:56:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 02:56:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 108FE19A5C; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 13:56:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (claudel.noos.net [212.198.2.83]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BDF8C19A30 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 13:55:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 2481185 invoked by uid 0); 5 Jun 2001 17:54:17 -0000 Received: from s232.dhcp212-198-183.noos.fr (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by claudel.noos.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 5 Jun 2001 17:54:17 -0000 Message-ID: <012201c0ede8$8d3f5ef0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010605162144.C27D1199E7@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] stand-alone fileserver of little value MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 19:54:21 +0200 > Separately, my new fileserver is also behaving strangely in its > processing of commands at the console. There is a 3-6 second > delay following each command (such as "date" or "who"), as well > as following each line of output for more complex commands, such > as "cpu" or "help" . you sure someone hasn't ported tso(6) from 9th/10th ed to it? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 6 03:01:57 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 6 03:01:57 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 4252 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2001 03:10:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4248 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 03:10:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 03:10:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 70A2E19A63; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 14:10:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from presto.hci-net (unknown [212.240.227.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A473919A60 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 14:09:50 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] stand-alone fileserver of little value From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010605180950.A473919A60@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 19:18:09 +0100 > you sure someone hasn't ported tso(6) from 9th/10th ed to it? actually, tso in doctor(A) according to my 10th Edition manual, and sadly undocumented. doctor, tso - psychiatric consultation . . . . . . . DOCTOR(A) is intriguing but not entirely illuminating! anyone still have these useful-sounding utilities? any relation to eliza? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 6 03:04:57 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 6 03:04:57 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 4273 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2001 03:13:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4269 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 03:13:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 03:13:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D0C419A61; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 14:13:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Princeton.EDU (postoffice.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.120]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AA74F19A30 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 14:12:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU (smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.65]) by Princeton.EDU (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04782 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 14:12:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from princeton.edu (albion.Princeton.EDU [128.112.234.82]) by smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13202 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 14:12:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B1D2103.97AC01C@princeton.edu> From: Martin Harriss Organization: Princeton University CIT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] stand-alone fileserver of little value References: <20010605162144.C27D1199E7@mail.cse.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 14:12:19 -0400 Paul C Lustgarten wrote: ..... > > Separately, my new fileserver is also behaving strangely in its > processing of commands at the console. There is a 3-6 second > delay following each command (such as "date" or "who"), as well > as following each line of output for more complex commands, such > as "cpu" or "help" (!). During the delay, type-ahead is lost. > Also, the cpu command shows process 21 ("con") as running pretty much > continuously, and a trace on the not-yet-used system shows processes > 5-20 waiting for some resource, contrary to the man page's guidance > that a trace on a quiescent system will have no output. > Anyone have any ideas what could be causing this delay? ... I did track this down once. There's a call to delay() somewhere. I forget where - I think it's either part of the command processor or maybe the console printing/flushing routines. No, I don't know why. Maybe some leftover debugging code? Martin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 6 03:10:58 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 6 03:10:58 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 4312 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2001 03:19:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4308 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 03:19:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 03:19:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AA67919A60; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 14:19:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 910F619A30 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 14:18:21 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010605181821.910F619A30@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] auth server Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 14:18:19 -0400 The last full release was missing a few files to serve authentication. I made a new wrap (03270605) that includes the two files and has an updated /rc/bin/cpurc that shows how to use them. Someone may have already brought this up, I wasn't reading the list for a few weeks and just dumped the back log. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 6 03:12:04 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 6 03:12:04 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 4328 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2001 03:20:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4324 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 03:20:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 03:20:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8B2BE19A65; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 14:20:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (lafontaine.noos.net [212.198.2.72]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0500C19A30 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 14:19:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 2167000 invoked by uid 0); 5 Jun 2001 18:19:45 -0000 Received: from s232.dhcp212-198-183.noos.fr (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by lafontaine.noos.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 5 Jun 2001 18:19:45 -0000 Message-ID: <01b301c0edeb$fc940370$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010605180950.A473919A60@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] stand-alone fileserver of little value MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 20:18:57 +0200 > actually, tso in doctor(A) according to my 10th Edition manual, and > sadly undocumented. i'm pretty sure tso had it's own page in 9th ed, but that manual is in the other hemisphere. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 6 04:17:57 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 6 04:17:57 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 4811 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2001 04:26:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4807 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 04:26:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 04:26:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 56BF019A61; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 15:26:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from haddock.cd.chalmers.se (haddock.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8FA1119A3A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 15:25:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (boris.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.21]) by haddock.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA06408; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 21:25:03 +0200 (MET DST) From: Laura Creighton Received: (from lac@localhost) by boris.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3/8.8.7) id VAA02036; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 21:25:02 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200106051925.VAA02036@boris.cd.chalmers.se> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: lac@cd.chalmers.se Subject: [9fans] I think that bell labs just broke. But hten maybe its me. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 21:25:02 +0200 (MET DST) I can't send mail to presotto. The original message was received at Tue, 5 Jun 2001 21:22:42 +0200 (MET DST) from boris.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.21] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to plan9.bell-labs.com.: >>> DATA <<< 554 Sender domain must exist: cd.chalmers.se!lac 554 ... Service unavailable part 3 message/rfc822 831 --------------------------------------------------- We exist. What gives? Laura From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 6 04:23:57 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 6 04:23:57 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 4882 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2001 04:32:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4878 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 04:32:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 04:32:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F30C119A65; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 15:32:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from haddock.cd.chalmers.se (haddock.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D149A19A5E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 15:31:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (boris.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.21]) by haddock.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA06684; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 21:31:09 +0200 (MET DST) From: Laura Creighton Received: (from lac@localhost) by boris.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3/8.8.7) id VAA02131; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 21:31:09 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200106051931.VAA02131@boris.cd.chalmers.se> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: lac@cd.chalmers.se Subject: [9fans] Its them Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 21:31:09 +0200 (MET DST) The original message was received at Tue, 5 Jun 2001 21:29:09 +0200 from root@ratthing-b246.strakt.com [62.13.29.37] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to plan9.bell-labs.com.: >>> DATA <<< 554 Sender domain must exist: strakt.com!lac 554 ... Service unavailable --VAA23395.991769362/theraft.strakt.com Content-Type: message/delivery-status -------------------- I absolutely positively must leave now, cannot help debug this, suggest you find sweden as first place to look. Laura From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 6 04:43:01 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 6 04:43:01 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 5061 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2001 04:51:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5057 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 04:51:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 04:51:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2842919A63; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 15:51:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B667419A2E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 15:50:06 -0400 (EDT) From: dmr@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] stand-alone fileserver of little value MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010605195006.B667419A2E@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 15:50:05 -0400 tso seems to have dropped out (it was older). doctor is indeed a version of eliza. Someone seems to have ported Franz lisp. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 6 04:45:09 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 6 04:45:09 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 5070 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2001 04:53:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5066 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 04:53:37 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 04:53:37 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3DAB419A67; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 15:53:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [130.203.12.17] (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2F27D19A33 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 15:52:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 2008 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2001 19:52:28 -0000 Received: from roke.cse.psu.edu (HELO bio.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.12.14) by galapagos.cse.psu.edu with SMTP; 5 Jun 2001 19:52:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 15331 invoked by uid 991); 5 Jun 2001 19:52:28 -0000 Message-ID: <20010605195228.15329.qmail@f.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] I think that bell labs just broke. But hten maybe its me. From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 15:52:27 -0400 > <<< 554 Sender domain must exist: cd.chalmers.se!lac I think checks of that sort are ill-advised. How can an MTA tell if cd.chalmers.se exists or not? Just because it tried a DNS lookup and it failed, that doesn't prove anything; transient errors are routine on the Internet. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 6 04:52:58 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 6 04:52:58 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 5142 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2001 05:01:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5135 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 05:01:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 05:01:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2C21A19A6A; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 16:01:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (lafontaine.noos.net [212.198.2.72]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F73619A2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 16:00:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 2216008 invoked by uid 0); 5 Jun 2001 20:00:56 -0000 Received: from s232.dhcp212-198-183.noos.fr (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by lafontaine.noos.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 5 Jun 2001 20:00:56 -0000 Message-ID: <001901c0edfa$1a744bd0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010605195228.15329.qmail@f.bio.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] I think that bell labs just broke. But hten maybe its me. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 22:00:00 +0200 > > <<< 554 Sender domain must exist: cd.chalmers.se!lac > > I think checks of that sort are ill-advised. i've wondered what heuristic get applied in these cases (in general). unlike the rbl these types of checks are not fail safe. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 6 17:38:11 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 6 17:38:11 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 21115 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2001 17:46:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21106 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 17:46:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 17:46:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F03F619A30; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 04:46:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A8C96199F1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 04:45:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 157YnN-0005qn-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 06 Jun 2001 09:36:05 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: James Message-ID: <3B1D7529.16DBE108@home.com> Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Wrap newbie quesition Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 08:34:41 GMT How do I get the updates?? I have a dedicated IP on my box. So I'm connected to the internet. I don't have webrowser on it yet. But I could ftpfs :-) James From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 6 17:38:55 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 6 17:38:55 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 21136 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2001 17:47:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21132 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 17:47:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 17:47:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF1CD19A44; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 04:47:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1A7A819A36 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 04:46:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 157YnC-0005pg-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 06 Jun 2001 09:35:54 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: James Message-ID: <3B1D70BB.15D1AA36@home.com> Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Subject: [9fans] Re: TELNET from Remote Linux machine? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 08:34:15 GMT I'm having the same issues. SO If you get some help fill me in :-) James Rory Savage wrote: > I am new the Plan9 universe, so please don't flame me. Anyhow, I got > IP based networking configured and working, and I was able to start > tcp services. What I want/need is to have the ability to telnet into > the CPU Server from a remote linux machine. I seem to be having an > authtentication problem. > > When I telnet in to (try to) this is what happens; > > $ telnet 192.168.1.21 > > Trying 192.168.1.21... > Connected to 192.168.1.21. > Escape character is '^]'. > user: rsavage > password: password: password: password: password: authentication > failure > Connection closed by foreign host. > > What am I doing wrong? The funny thing is I don't even have a > password on the system as it is, and when I try, I can't seem to make > it work. > > I ran /bin/aux/listen il > /bin/aux/listen tcp > > /bin/auth/keyfs > > and I got an error message > > ``can't read /dev/key, please enter machine key'' > > But /dev/key is owned by user `rsavage' in which I have started up the > system as. > > Any ideas? I wish there was a detail book on Plan9 :) > > Thanks!! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 6 17:52:56 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 6 17:52:56 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 21497 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2001 18:01:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21493 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 18:01:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 18:01:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E53AF19A48; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 05:01:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from subito.home.cs.york.ac.uk (caldo.demon.co.uk [194.222.207.148]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 48BC1199FB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 05:00:16 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: TELNET from Remote Linux machine? From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010606090016.48BC1199FB@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 09:56:19 +0100 > authtentication problem. > > When I telnet in to (try to) this is what happens; > > $ telnet 192.168.1.21 > > Trying 192.168.1.21... > Connected to 192.168.1.21. > Escape character is '^]'. > user: rsavage > password: password: password: password: password: authentication >>I'm having the same issues. SO If you get some help fill me in :-) what is in /adm/users? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 6 22:00:54 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 6 22:00:54 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 24825 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2001 22:09:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24821 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 22:09:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 22:09:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ED25F19A48; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 09:09:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2293519A12 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 09:08:06 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010606130806.2293519A12@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] problems setting up auth service Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 09:08:02 -0400 I've just gotten one person past their auth server problems with the following set of instructions. He never saw the password: password: ... problem, but he did see pretty much everything else. The instructions in start.ps are a little out of date. I'll work on that too when I get a free minute or two. This sets up a system as a cpu/auth server. If you want to run auth service from a terminal, ask me and I'll build a different set of instructions. ------------------------------------------ 0) make sure all the wraps are installed 1) build a cpu kernel that contains a kfs (local file server) % cd /sys/src/9/pc % mk 'CONF=pccpudisk' 2) copy it to where you boot from, you could change /n/9fat/plan9.ini to use a different file name to bot from but this may be easier % 9fat: % cp 9pccpudisk /n/9fat/9pcdisk 3) make sure there's an empty key file, keyfs screws up when it creates one. create it as the user you are going to run the cpu server as. Call that user bootes. You can call it whatever you want but you'ld better make sure you do a 'disk/kfscmd newuser newname' before you do. % disk/kfscmd allow % rm /adm/keys % disk/kfscmd 'create /adm/keys bootes bootes 660' 4) make sure you have /bin/cpurc starting the following: auth/keyfs -wp -m /mnt/keys /adm/keys >/dev/null >[2=1] auth/cron >>/sys/log/cron >[2=1] & if(! test -e /rc/bin/service.auth/il566){ mv /rc/bin/service.auth/authsrv.il566 /rc/bin/service.auth/il566 mv /rc/bin/service.auth/authsrv.tcp567 /rc/bin/service.auth/tcp567 mv /rc/bin/service/il566 /rc/bin/service/_il566 mv /rc/bin/service/tcp567 /rc/bin/service/_tcp567 } # services available to networks aux/listen -q -t /rc/bin/service.auth -d /rc/bin/service il aux/listen -q -t /rc/bin/service.auth -d /rc/bin/service tcp 4) reboot, this time you'll come up as a cpuserver. it will ask for an authid, authdom, and password. Use bootes, whatever.com, and whatever password you want. 5) The system will start keyfs and the right listeners. On the console you can now start creating accounts. Start with the user that the auth server runs as. BE SURE TO USE THE SAME PASSWORD YOU JUST LOGGED THE AUTH SERVER IN AS!!!!! % auth/changeuser bootes ... % auth/changeuser guest .... 6) Now change /lib/ndb/local on other systems to let them know where the auth server is. Look at /sys/doc/start.ps for how. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 6 22:44:55 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 6 22:44:55 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 25368 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2001 22:53:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25364 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 22:53:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 22:53:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4250F19A52; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 09:53:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pali.cps.cmich.edu (pali.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.131.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B71D3199FD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 09:52:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ishwar@localhost) by pali.cps.cmich.edu (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f56DrN925187 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 09:53:23 -0400 From: Ish Rattan To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] auth/cpus server keyfs solved.. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 09:53:23 -0400 (EDT) This is what I did, and seems to work.. . corrupt nvram first so at boot the machines asks for password passowrd/id/domain etc. . reboot the machine and supply information (as above) . zero out the files /adm/keys and /adm/keys.who . create keys for users needed (should be in /adm/users) using auth/changeuser - ishwar From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 6 22:54:56 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 6 22:54:56 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 25479 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2001 23:03:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25475 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 23:03:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 23:03:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 633CD19A67; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 10:03:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pali.cps.cmich.edu (pali.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.131.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE92219A55 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 10:02:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ishwar@localhost) by pali.cps.cmich.edu (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f56E46E25200 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 10:04:06 -0400 From: Ish Rattan To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] standalone auth/cpu server Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 10:04:06 -0400 (EDT) The server has a small hardsik (1.6G) and I want to add a larger disk. Is there a way to just add the disk and kfs will use it OR the installation has to be redone using the larger disk? - ishwar From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 6 23:12:08 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 6 23:12:08 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 25730 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2001 23:20:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25726 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 23:20:37 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 23:20:37 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 153E019A68; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 10:20:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cosym.net (sdsl-64-7-3-116.dsl.nyc.megapath.net [64.7.3.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 41CE319A61 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 10:19:31 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] standalone auth/cpu server From: anothy@cosym.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20010606141931.41CE319A61@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 10:18:55 -0400 you can add the disk and run a seperate instance of kfs serving it. for example, putting something like this in your cpurc: disk/kfs -n alt -f /dev/sd02 will give you kfs on the disk at SCSI ID 2. to the best of my knowledge, there's no way to make kfs concatenate the disks. the file server can, but i think that involves re-building your file system. -α. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 6 23:44:00 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 6 23:44:00 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 26095 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2001 23:52:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26091 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 23:52:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 23:52:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AD67F19A45; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 10:52:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from doppio.hci-net (unknown [212.240.227.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2A8DF199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 10:51:24 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] standalone auth/cpu server From: forsyth@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-lhuzktnsdefxzyzkpwubjezsxp" Message-Id: <20010606145124.2A8DF199E9@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 15:52:43 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-lhuzktnsdefxzyzkpwubjezsxp Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit /sys/src/cmd/disk/kfs provides devmulti.c and the mkfile there can build 8.gfs which seems to provide concatenated drives, but i don't know what shape it's in. you'd need to save and restore your existing file system to use it. --upas-lhuzktnsdefxzyzkpwubjezsxp Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@vitanuova.com id 991837267:10:14709:52; Wed, 06 Jun 2001 14:21:07 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1122537; 6 Jun 2001 14:20 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 356F219A53; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 10:20:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cosym.net (sdsl-64-7-3-116.dsl.nyc.megapath.net [64.7.3.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 41CE319A61 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 10:19:31 -0400 (EDT) To: cse.psu.edu!9fans Subject: Re: [9fans] standalone auth/cpu server MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20010606141931.41CE319A61@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: cse.psu.edu!9fans List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 10:18:55 -0400 you can add the disk and run a seperate instance of kfs serving it. for example, putting something like this in your cpurc: disk/kfs -n alt -f /dev/sd02 will give you kfs on the disk at SCSI ID 2. to the best of my knowledge, there's no way to make kfs concatenate the disks. the file server can, but i think that involves re-building your file system. -. --upas-lhuzktnsdefxzyzkpwubjezsxp-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 7 18:03:00 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 7 18:03:00 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 12269 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Jun 2001 18:11:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12265 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2001 18:11:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Jun 2001 18:11:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9E7B419A0F; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 05:11:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cejchan.gli.cas.cz (cejchan.gli.cas.cz [147.231.139.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A464199F1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 05:10:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cej by cejchan.gli.cas.cz with local (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 157vvg-0001wI-00; Thu, 07 Jun 2001 11:18:12 +0200 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: cej@cejchan.gli.cas.cz Message-Id: X-Mailer: TkMail 4.0beta9 From: pac Subject: [9fans] touchpad -> 3 btns? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 11:18:12 +0200 Hi, is there any smart solution in Plan 9 of how to workaround the two-button touchpad on notebooks? Using external 3-button mouse is annoying ... Thanks, regards, -Peter. -- Peter A. Cejchan From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 7 18:41:53 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 7 18:41:53 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 13354 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Jun 2001 18:50:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13350 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2001 18:50:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Jun 2001 18:50:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 14B9C19A19; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 05:50:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A7B3E19A15 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 05:49:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cotswold.demon.co.uk ([194.222.75.186] helo=nigel.9fs.org) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 157wQi-000OYE-0X for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 10:50:16 +0100 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] touchpad -> 3 btns? From: nigel@9fs.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-uywrkxpxhaocyujylhcevstldo" Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 10:49:00 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-uywrkxpxhaocyujylhcevstldo Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The workarounds are worse than carrying a 3 button mouse. --upas-uywrkxpxhaocyujylhcevstldo Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by cpu; Thu Jun 7 10:15:17 BST 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3F1CA199FB; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 05:11:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cejchan.gli.cas.cz (cejchan.gli.cas.cz [147.231.139.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A464199F1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 05:10:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cej by cejchan.gli.cas.cz with local (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 157vvg-0001wI-00; Thu, 07 Jun 2001 11:18:12 +0200 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: cej@cejchan.gli.cas.cz Message-Id: X-Mailer: TkMail 4.0beta9 From: pac Subject: [9fans] touchpad -> 3 btns? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 11:18:12 +0200 Hi, is there any smart solution in Plan 9 of how to workaround the two-button touchpad on notebooks? Using external 3-button mouse is annoying ... Thanks, regards, -Peter. -- Peter A. Cejchan --upas-uywrkxpxhaocyujylhcevstldo-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 7 19:01:53 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 7 19:01:53 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 13700 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Jun 2001 19:10:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13696 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2001 19:10:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Jun 2001 19:10:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0D5C019A29; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 06:10:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cejchan.gli.cas.cz (cejchan.gli.cas.cz [147.231.139.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 214D119A19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 06:09:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cej by cejchan.gli.cas.cz with local (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 157wqj-0002LJ-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 07 Jun 2001 12:17:09 +0200 Subject: Re: [9fans] touchpad -> 3 btns? To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: X-Mailer: TkMail 4.0beta9 In-Reply-To: From: pac Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 12:17:09 +0200 >> >> The workarounds are worse than carrying a 3 button >> mouse. >> >> However, are there? --Peter From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 7 19:03:51 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 7 19:03:51 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 13726 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Jun 2001 19:12:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13722 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2001 19:12:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Jun 2001 19:12:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 00F9919A33; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 06:12:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.88]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0830A19A19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 06:11:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cotswold.demon.co.uk ([194.222.75.186] helo=nigel.9fs.org) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 157wnl-0004mZ-0U for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 11:14:05 +0100 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] touchpad -> 3 btns? From: nigel@9fs.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-bpmalmvjdyskibmazgybjtykye" Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 11:11:22 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-bpmalmvjdyskibmazgybjtykye Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You can achieve the middle button by shift and right click. Chords are disonant. --upas-bpmalmvjdyskibmazgybjtykye Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by cpu; Thu Jun 7 11:14:16 BST 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE2DE19A27; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 06:10:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cejchan.gli.cas.cz (cejchan.gli.cas.cz [147.231.139.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 214D119A19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 06:09:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cej by cejchan.gli.cas.cz with local (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 157wqj-0002LJ-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 07 Jun 2001 12:17:09 +0200 Subject: Re: [9fans] touchpad -> 3 btns? To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: X-Mailer: TkMail 4.0beta9 In-Reply-To: From: pac Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 12:17:09 +0200 >> >> The workarounds are worse than carrying a 3 button >> mouse. >> >> However, are there? --Peter --upas-bpmalmvjdyskibmazgybjtykye-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 7 19:07:53 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 7 19:07:53 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 13763 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Jun 2001 19:16:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13759 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2001 19:16:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Jun 2001 19:16:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F035519A3A; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 06:16:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cejchan.gli.cas.cz (cejchan.gli.cas.cz [147.231.139.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 385B819A19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 06:15:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cej by cejchan.gli.cas.cz with local (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 157wwa-0002M4-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 07 Jun 2001 12:23:12 +0200 Subject: Re: [9fans] touchpad -> 3 btns? To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: X-Mailer: TkMail 4.0beta9 In-Reply-To: From: pac Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 12:23:12 +0200 >> >> You can achieve the middle button by shift and right click. >> Chords are disonant. >> Hmmmmm.... Now I see. Thanks, regards, --Peter. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 7 19:56:55 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 7 19:56:55 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 14341 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Jun 2001 20:05:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14337 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2001 20:05:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Jun 2001 20:05:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AA6AE19A29; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 07:05:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 5587919A19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 07:04:05 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: F.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010607110405.5587919A19@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] had to tell someone... bitsy pm Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 13:13:06 +0200 Lines with `!' come from a con window to the bitsy !Plan 9 bitsy kernel !06 MHZ ARM, ver 1/part b11/step 8 !4801 free pages !19204K bytes !115240K swap !oot is from (sac)[sac]: [Here I press the on/off button, wait 5 secs, press it again] !I'm back to life !still here where "still here" comes from dram, so looks like it's kept in good shape. The bad news is that I'm not recovering all the state needed yet, I know that because the display gets the power back but it shows nothing. What remains to be done doesn't look complicated, but my ignorance regarding bitsy, arm's asm, 5a/5l, and bootldr, is pretty big. I'll put some more time on this to see if I can make it work. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 7 20:26:55 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 7 20:26:55 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 14735 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Jun 2001 20:35:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14731 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2001 20:35:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Jun 2001 20:35:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C346019A3A; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 07:35:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9290C19A31 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 07:34:28 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] had to tell someone... bitsy pm From: Sape Mullender MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-rrlowsfbbvtcrlhvxhignnpsji" Message-Id: <20010607113428.9290C19A31@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 07:37:51 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-rrlowsfbbvtcrlhvxhignnpsji Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cool, I'm impressed. We're nearly finished converting the bitsy kernel to 9P2000. Sape --upas-rrlowsfbbvtcrlhvxhignnpsji Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Jun 7 07:05:24 EDT 2001 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Jun 7 07:05:23 EDT 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B01A119A19; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 07:05:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 5587919A19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 07:04:05 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: F.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010607110405.5587919A19@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] had to tell someone... bitsy pm Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 13:13:06 +0200 Lines with `!' come from a con window to the bitsy !Plan 9 bitsy kernel !06 MHZ ARM, ver 1/part b11/step 8 !4801 free pages !19204K bytes !115240K swap !oot is from (sac)[sac]: [Here I press the on/off button, wait 5 secs, press it again] !I'm back to life !still here where "still here" comes from dram, so looks like it's kept in good shape. The bad news is that I'm not recovering all the state needed yet, I know that because the display gets the power back but it shows nothing. What remains to be done doesn't look complicated, but my ignorance regarding bitsy, arm's asm, 5a/5l, and bootldr, is pretty big. I'll put some more time on this to see if I can make it work. --upas-rrlowsfbbvtcrlhvxhignnpsji-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 7 21:54:52 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 7 21:54:52 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 15753 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Jun 2001 22:03:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15749 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2001 22:03:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Jun 2001 22:03:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 86B0019A45; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 09:03:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cejchan.gli.cas.cz (cejchan.gli.cas.cz [147.231.139.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D790D19A3F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 09:02:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cej by cejchan.gli.cas.cz with local (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 157zYP-0002Zz-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 07 Jun 2001 15:10:25 +0200 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: X-Mailer: TkMail 4.0beta9 From: pac Subject: [9fans] AGP graphic cards not supported? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 15:10:25 +0200 Hi, does anybody run Plan 9 on a box with graphic card on AGP bus? - or - does anybody know whether AGP will be supported? Apologies for these stupid questions, regards, - Peter. -- Peter A. Cejchan Dept. Paleobiology, Inst. Geology Acad. Sci., Rozvojova 135, Prague 6 CZ-16502 Czech Republic ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A plea: Please, consider your support to the Public Library of Science initiative at http://www.publiclibraryofscience.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 7 22:27:52 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 7 22:27:52 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 16124 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Jun 2001 22:36:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16120 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2001 22:36:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Jun 2001 22:36:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2FD9119A46; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 09:36:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 7F13119A3A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 09:35:12 -0400 (EDT) From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] AGP graphic cards not supported? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010607133512.7F13119A3A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 09:35:09 -0400 On Thu Jun 7 09:03:22 EDT 2001, cej@cejchan.gli.cas.cz wrote: > Hi, > > does anybody run Plan 9 on a box with graphic card on AGP bus? > - or - > does anybody know whether AGP will be supported? > Apologies for these stupid questions, > regards, > - Peter. It works without any special code because it's really just a second PCI bus with some limitations. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 8 03:20:57 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 8 03:20:57 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 18762 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Jun 2001 03:29:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18758 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 03:29:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 03:29:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E5C8219A41; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 14:29:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8309419A2D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 14:28:51 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: F.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010607182851.8309419A2D@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] 2 bitsy questions Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 20:38:11 +0200 1) I think that the kernel saves all the processor register set during its way down to the on/off interrupt handler, that's despite the banked registers for the different processor modes. Is that true? Or should I also save/recover registers for other modes (irq, und, ...)? In particular I suspect of r13 for the different modes. Although the kernel seems to come back fine after a suspend, if I let the system run it panics in syscall or gets frozen. 2) When I reactivate the power of the lcd, the screen seems to get back but the colors are kind of `degraded' after a suspend in `text mode'. If I suspend once the system creates a window, the screen background comes back, but the text is gone. Do any of you know of a fine way to get the display back? I'll reread the code to see if I can find out the answers, so don't hesitate to answer if you don't have the time. thanks anyway From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 8 06:06:54 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 8 06:06:54 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19847 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Jun 2001 06:15:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19843 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 06:15:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 06:15:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 359D319A45; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 17:15:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 27241199F1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 17:14:34 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: nemo@gsyc.escet.urjc.es, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 2 bitsy questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010607211434.27241199F1@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 17:14:25 -0400 There is an r13 for each mode. On traps, we always trampoline to svc mode so that the r13 registers are always pointing to the same place when we are interruptible. You will definitely lose this state in idle/sleep mode. I'll look at it a little more closely tonight. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 8 13:27:00 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 8 13:27:00 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 27706 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Jun 2001 13:35:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27702 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 13:35:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 13:35:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 997B5199EF; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 00:35:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from al.aichi-u.ac.jp (unknown [202.250.160.73]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8DFA3199ED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 00:34:28 -0400 (EDT) From: arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010608043428.8DFA3199ED@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] ftpd is something weird Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 13:31:26 +0900 Hello 9fans, Ftpd is something weird. I cannot communicate with Plan9 ftpd after rhelp (remotehelp) command. The following is an example from Linux. [arisawa@vega arisawa]$ ftp ar Connected to ar.aichi-u.ac.jp. 220 Plan 9 FTP server ready Name (ar:arisawa): ftp 331 Send email address as password Password: 230- If you have problems, send mail to 'postmaster'. 230 Logged in Remote system type is UNIX. Using binary mode to transfer files. ftp> pwd 257 "/" is the current directory ftp> ls 200 Data port is tcp!202.16.124.3!2515 150 Opened data connection (tcp!202.16.124.3!2515) total 8860 -r-xr-xr-x 1 none none 1333748 Sep 25 2000 9pcdisk -r--r--r-- 1 none none 140 Sep 28 2000 INDEX dr-xr-xr-x 2 none none 512 May 27 17:06 Python -r--r--r-- 1 none none 128846 Sep 28 2000 bc-1.03.tar.gz -r--r--r-- 1 none none 881984 Sep 28 2000 gawk-3.0.0.tar.gz dr-xr-xr-x 2 none none 512 Sep 28 2000 ghostscript -r--r--r-- 1 none none 373514 Sep 28 2000 gmp-2.0.2.tar.gz -r--r--r-- 1 none none 21360 Sep 28 2000 mailsort.tar.gz -r--r--r-- 1 none none 6605 Sep 28 2000 md5sum.tar.gz -r--r--r-- 1 none none 94842 Sep 28 2000 ncftp173.tar.gz dr-xr-xr-x 2 none none 512 May 27 17:06 pub dr-xr-xr-x 2 none none 512 May 27 17:06 qmail -r--r--r-- 1 none none 1630065 Sep 28 2000 ssh.1.2.16.NIS.tar.gz dr-xr-xr-x 2 none none 512 May 27 17:06 tip+ -r--r--r-- 1 none none 62812 Sep 28 2000 zmodem.tar.gz 226 Transfer complete (list ) ftp> rhelp 214- the following commands are implemented: abor appe cdup cwd dele help list mdtm mkd mode nlst noop pass pasv pwd port quit rest retr rnfr rnto rmd size stor stou stru syst type user 214 ftp> pwd ftp> ls 257 "/" is the current directory 200 Data port is tcp!202.16.124.3!2517 ftp> bye 150 Opened data connection (tcp!202.16.124.3!2517) [arisawa@vega arisawa]$ Thanks, Kenji Arisawa E-mail: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 8 13:50:51 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 8 13:50:51 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 28298 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Jun 2001 13:59:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28293 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 13:59:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 13:59:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9178D19A45; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 00:59:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cosym.net (sdsl-64-7-3-116.dsl.nyc.megapath.net [64.7.3.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 29E6C199EF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 00:58:39 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Paul C Lustgarten MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010608045839.29E6C199EF@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] bug in /sys/lib/newuser Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 00:58:37 -0400 I believe there's a small bug in the /sys/lib/newuser script. It begins thusly: #!/bin/rc user=`{cat /dev/user} home=/usr/$user if(test -d $user/tmp){ echo user directories already made exit no } The test to avoid duplicate execution here seems wrong: it should be testing $home/tmp rather than $user/tmp, unless there's some reason for the code to expect to *only* be run from /usr. Paul From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 8 15:12:53 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 8 15:12:53 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 30737 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Jun 2001 15:21:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30733 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 15:21:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 15:21:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7898D19A46; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 02:21:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.uisreno.com (mail.renonevada.net [216.105.206.146]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7F7DB199C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 02:20:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uisreno.com [216.105.197.226] by mail.uisreno.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.06) id AF271E2023C; Thu, 07 Jun 2001 23:22:31 -0700 Message-ID: <3B206E30.B012EC15@uisreno.com> From: Louis Beleos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] installation disk: 9pcflop.gz: no aha1542 detection Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 23:18:24 -0700 The version of 9pcflop.gz included in the installation disk image (12 Apr 13:27, size 1200908) appears to be back-leveled with respect to aha1542 scsi adapters (not being detected/configured). A fresh version, made from the 27 Mar 01 package, works fine. (This is puzzling since the installation disk version was presumably made on 12 Apr and I don't see where any of the updates to the 27 Mar package touched sdmylex.c .) Louis From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 8 15:32:55 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 8 15:32:55 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 31230 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Jun 2001 15:41:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31226 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 15:41:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 15:41:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5403E19A4C; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 02:41:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.uisreno.com (mail.uisreno.com [216.105.206.146]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 16A0C19A48 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 02:40:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uisreno.com [216.105.197.226] by mail.uisreno.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.06) id A3AE4050270; Thu, 07 Jun 2001 23:41:50 -0700 Message-ID: <3B2072B7.E3FCEE6E@uisreno.com> From: Louis Beleos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] /sys/lib/pcdist/disk/mkfile: typo? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 23:37:43 -0700 The recipe for ndisk references file /sys/lib/pcdist/bin/386/pbs, which doesn't exist. This probably should read just /386/pbs. Louis From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 8 15:52:54 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 8 15:52:54 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 31765 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Jun 2001 16:01:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31761 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 16:01:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 16:01:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2B1A319A4E; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 03:01:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1A3E319A4C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 03:00:15 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 2 bitsy questions From: F.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-zjkkjveisunyzvpvgiqpqboxbn" Message-Id: <20010608070016.1A3E319A4C@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:09:35 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-zjkkjveisunyzvpvgiqpqboxbn Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So, you mean that just repeating setr13(PsrMfiq, m->sfiq); setr13(PsrMirq, m->sirq); setr13(PsrMabt, m->sabt); setr13(PsrMund, m->sund); could do the job, since they always point to the same place. I'll try that. thanks a lot. --upas-zjkkjveisunyzvpvgiqpqboxbn Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (postfix@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by gsyc.escet.urjc.es (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id XAA08998; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 23:15:30 +0200 X-Authentication-Warning: gsyc.escet.urjc.es: Host postfix@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6] claimed to be mail.cse.psu.edu Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 359D319A45; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 17:15:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 27241199F1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 17:14:34 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: nemo@gsyc.escet.urjc.es, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 2 bitsy questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010607211434.27241199F1@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 17:14:25 -0400 There is an r13 for each mode. On traps, we always trampoline to svc mode so that the r13 registers are always pointing to the same place when we are interruptible. You will definitely lose this state in idle/sleep mode. I'll look at it a little more closely tonight. --upas-zjkkjveisunyzvpvgiqpqboxbn-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 8 17:39:53 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 8 17:39:53 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 2286 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Jun 2001 17:48:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2282 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 17:48:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 17:48:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF60319A4E; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 04:48:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9974B199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 04:47:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 158HnJ-0004f2-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 08 Jun 2001 09:39:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Ryan O'NEil Message-ID: Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <200106021653.SAA25202@rackham.cd.chalmers.se> Subject: Re: [9fans] which linux! which gcc! Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 08:38:51 GMT Yes RedHat made the unfortunate choice of releasing gcc 2.96, which the gcc group explicitly stated was not meant for release. Same goes for Mandrake and who knows what others. *sigh* lac@cd.chalmers.se (Laura Creighton) wrote in message news:<200106021653.SAA25202@rackham.cd.chalmers.se>... > If you are running Red Hat 7.0 then stop what you are doing > immediately. the gcc is entirely hosed. there are so many > bugs you cannot compile anything with it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 8 18:22:52 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 8 18:22:52 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 3246 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Jun 2001 18:31:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3242 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 18:31:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 18:31:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE0E219A4F; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 05:31:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from haddock.cd.chalmers.se (haddock.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E9855199C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 05:30:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (boris.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.21]) by haddock.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA11040; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:30:27 +0200 (MET DST) From: Laura Creighton Received: (from lac@localhost) by boris.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3/8.8.7) id LAA04591; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:30:27 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200106080930.LAA04591@boris.cd.chalmers.se> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: lac@cd.chalmers.se Subject: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:30:27 +0200 (MET DST) I want to make a `this is plan 9' presentation to them. Can I get notes and stuff from you? Also, what works? What will impress them? And yes i _have_ the papers from 1127, the stuff I want to steal from you is what you did with that. Thanks very much, Laura Creighton From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 8 19:26:54 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 8 19:26:54 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 4095 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Jun 2001 19:35:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4091 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 19:35:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 19:35:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 86B3719A50; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 06:35:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pali.cps.cmich.edu (pali.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.131.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6FA95199C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 06:34:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ishwar@localhost) by pali.cps.cmich.edu (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f58AZZn27312 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 06:35:35 -0400 From: Ish Rattan To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here. In-Reply-To: <200106080930.LAA04591@boris.cd.chalmers.se> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 06:35:35 -0400 (EDT) On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Laura Creighton wrote: > I want to make a `this is plan 9' presentation to them. Can I get notes > and stuff from you? Also, what works? What will impress them? And It is difficult to impress anybody with a new system. I have tried it here and answer is so waht? Maybe a good looking presenter might do it.. - ishwar From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 8 19:32:52 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 8 19:32:52 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 4167 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Jun 2001 19:41:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4163 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 19:41:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 19:41:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 46CDA19A56; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 06:41:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1857519A52 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 06:40:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 158JKZ-000788-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 08 Jun 2001 11:17:27 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Barry Kelly Message-ID: Organization: Ireland On-Line Customer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20010524185028.F1E14199D5@mail.cse.psu.edu>, <20010525065834.K21254@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] Limbo Tk FAQ? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 10:16:43 GMT In article <20010525065834.K21254@cackle.proxima.alt.za> lucio@proxima.alt.za (Lucio De Re) wrote: > On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 02:50:27PM -0400, geoff@collyer.net wrote: > > > > I still haven't seen any reasonably pleasant way to > > write GUIs and am becoming convinced that it's just > > inherently painful [...] way too much attention > > to way too much irrelevant detail. > > [...] I find graphics programming far > too tedious. > > I haven't tried VB or VC++, [...] You should try Delphi instead. -- Barry -- One must sometimes choose between expressiveness, safety, and performance. But a scarcity of one isn't always excused by an abundance of another. - Thant Tessman NNQ - Quoting Style in Newsgroup Postings http://web.infoave.net/~dcalhoun/nnq/nquote.html From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 8 21:13:00 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 8 21:13:00 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 5203 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Jun 2001 21:21:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5199 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 21:21:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 21:21:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E0D119A5B; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 08:21:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (descartes.noos.net [212.198.2.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3285A199C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 08:20:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 3681782 invoked by uid 0); 8 Jun 2001 12:20:18 -0000 Received: from s232.dhcp212-198-183.noos.fr (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by descartes.noos.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 8 Jun 2001 12:20:18 -0000 Message-ID: <00e701c0f015$42795040$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200106080930.LAA04591@boris.cd.chalmers.se> Subject: Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 14:19:26 +0200 > What will impress them? ftpfs is pretty impressive and it demonstrates a core idea. plumbing is probably another one. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 8 21:51:51 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 8 21:51:51 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 5701 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Jun 2001 22:00:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5697 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 22:00:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 22:00:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE64F19A5E; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:00:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 6A71219A50 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 08:59:01 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-xobjpzupltxdndwortqlfzekum" Message-Id: <20010608125901.6A71219A50@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 08:58:59 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-xobjpzupltxdndwortqlfzekum Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hire brittany spears --upas-xobjpzupltxdndwortqlfzekum Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Jun 8 06:35:24 EDT 2001 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Fri Jun 8 06:35:23 EDT 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB8D7199E3; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 06:35:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pali.cps.cmich.edu (pali.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.131.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6FA95199C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 06:34:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ishwar@localhost) by pali.cps.cmich.edu (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f58AZZn27312 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 06:35:35 -0400 From: Ish Rattan To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here. In-Reply-To: <200106080930.LAA04591@boris.cd.chalmers.se> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 06:35:35 -0400 (EDT) On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Laura Creighton wrote: > I want to make a `this is plan 9' presentation to them. Can I get notes > and stuff from you? Also, what works? What will impress them? And It is difficult to impress anybody with a new system. I have tried it here and answer is so waht? Maybe a good looking presenter might do it.. - ishwar --upas-xobjpzupltxdndwortqlfzekum-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 8 22:09:51 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 8 22:09:51 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 5909 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Jun 2001 22:18:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5905 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 22:18:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 22:18:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 556F519A68; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:18:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (mta05-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.45]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8491219A50 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:17:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010608131724.RHYA4151.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 14:17:24 +0100 Message-ID: <007601c0f01d$4b523350$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010608125901.6A71219A50@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 14:16:57 +0100 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 1:58 PM Subject: Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here. > Hire brittany spears > She's not Open ymmv --- AVG Scanned for viruses Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.261 / Virus Database: 131 - Release Date: 07/06/2001 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 8 22:24:55 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 8 22:24:55 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 6130 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Jun 2001 22:33:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6126 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 22:33:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 22:33:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DF37B19A6B; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:33:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9012719A50 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:32:51 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ftpd is something weird MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010608133251.9012719A50@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:32:48 -0400 Right you are, I guess I never tested that command. Change helpcmd() to: int helpcmd(char *arg) { int i; USED(arg); reply("214- the following commands are implemented:"); for(i = 0; cmdtab[i].name; i++){ if((i%8) == 0) print("\r\n"); print("%8.8s", cmdtab[i].name); } print("\r\n"); return reply("214 done"); } From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 8 22:27:53 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 8 22:27:53 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 6171 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Jun 2001 22:36:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6167 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 22:36:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 22:36:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A080319A59; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:36:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cejchan.gli.cas.cz (cejchan.gli.cas.cz [147.231.139.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE0A5199C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:35:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cej by cejchan.gli.cas.cz with local (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 158MYJ-0003kc-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 08 Jun 2001 15:43:51 +0200 Subject: Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here. To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: X-Mailer: TkMail 4.0beta9 In-Reply-To: <007601c0f01d$4b523350$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: pac Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 15:43:51 +0200 >> >> > Hire brittany spears >> > >> She's not Open >> >> ymmv >> I'm afraid i don't understand a word, or my knowledge of English is too poor. I thought she was politely asking us for a help, and that she's about to do a beneficial thing, no? Or you don't care about attracting young people? Cheers, Peter. -- Peter A. Cejchan Dept. Paleobiology, Inst. Geology Acad. Sci., Rozvojova 135, Prague 6 CZ-16502 Czech Republic ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A plea: Please, consider your support to the Public Library of Science initiative at http://www.publiclibraryofscience.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 8 22:30:51 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 8 22:30:51 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 6198 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Jun 2001 22:39:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6194 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 22:39:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 22:39:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CFC5E19A6F; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:39:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2C2EC199C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:38:56 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here. From: F.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010608133856.2C2EC199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 15:48:19 +0200 : Or you don't care : about attracting young people? I think you are right. They should hire Alan Parsons instead. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 8 22:39:52 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 8 22:39:52 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 6260 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Jun 2001 22:48:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6256 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 22:48:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 22:48:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4899119A74; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:48:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E40AF19A71 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:47:58 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: cej@cejchan.gli.cas.cz, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010608134758.E40AF19A71@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:47:55 -0400 It was a joke. At least two of us have privately mailed her our plan 9 prsentations. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 8 22:42:50 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 8 22:42:50 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 6312 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Jun 2001 22:51:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6308 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 22:51:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 22:51:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B0EFA199EB; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:51:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 65A5F199C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:50:51 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here. From: F.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ouivbyabjnkzrmeaxbthhrzkhn" Message-Id: <20010608135051.65A5F199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 16:00:19 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ouivbyabjnkzrmeaxbthhrzkhn Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd love to see them. --upas-ouivbyabjnkzrmeaxbthhrzkhn Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (postfix@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by gsyc.escet.urjc.es (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA24680; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 15:48:28 +0200 X-Authentication-Warning: gsyc.escet.urjc.es: Host postfix@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6] claimed to be mail.cse.psu.edu Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4899119A74; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:48:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E40AF19A71 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:47:58 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: cej@cejchan.gli.cas.cz, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010608134758.E40AF19A71@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:47:55 -0400 It was a joke. At least two of us have privately mailed her our plan 9 prsentations. --upas-ouivbyabjnkzrmeaxbthhrzkhn-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 8 22:44:54 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 8 22:44:54 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 6331 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Jun 2001 22:53:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6326 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 22:53:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 22:53:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D3BE6199F6; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:53:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from haddock.cd.chalmers.se (haddock.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4182A199E1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:52:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (boris.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.21]) by haddock.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA22136; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 15:52:42 +0200 (MET DST) From: Laura Creighton Received: (from lac@localhost) by boris.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3/8.8.7) id PAA06062; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 15:52:41 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200106081352.PAA06062@boris.cd.chalmers.se> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: lac@cd.chalmers.se Subject: [9fans] and the communication was also broken because I sent Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 15:52:41 +0200 (MET DST) as private mail, a thing of what will impress them. They said maybe a female presenter will help. I said don't look at me, I am 40 years old and still have acne. Which I thought i might not say publicly, but oh well, then see what happens with not good communication. Its not as if you couldn't all SEE the acne if you were here. Laura From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 8 23:12:50 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 8 23:12:50 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 6614 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Jun 2001 23:21:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6610 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 23:21:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 23:21:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 51FC8199EF; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 10:21:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6AE9E199C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 10:20:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22368 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 10:20:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id KAA09704; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 10:20:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200106081420.KAA09704@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here. Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <20010608135051.65A5F199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 10:20:03 -0400 (EDT) In article <20010608135051.65A5F199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu> you write: >I'd love to see them. I would, too. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 8 23:17:51 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 8 23:17:51 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 6671 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Jun 2001 23:26:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6667 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 23:26:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 23:26:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0DDB519A00; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 10:26:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D1BB199C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 10:25:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23134 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 10:25:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id KAA09742; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 10:25:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200106081425.KAA09742@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here. Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <20010608125901.6A71219A50@mail.cse.psu.edu> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 10:25:45 -0400 (EDT) In article <20010608125901.6A71219A50@mail.cse.psu.edu> you write: >Hire brittany spears I thought the goal was to train the next generation of stellar computer scientists...If so, why ask that personification of mediocrity to present new material to them? - Dan ``I ain't no teeny bopper....'' C. :-) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 8 23:35:52 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 8 23:35:52 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 6830 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Jun 2001 23:44:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6826 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 23:44:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 23:44:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A8EA219A00; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 10:44:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cejchan.gli.cas.cz (cejchan.gli.cas.cz [147.231.139.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 61F5719A56 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 10:43:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cej by cejchan.gli.cas.cz with local (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 158Nba-0003nt-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 08 Jun 2001 16:51:18 +0200 Subject: Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here. To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: X-Mailer: TkMail 4.0beta9 In-Reply-To: <20010608134758.E40AF19A71@mail.cse.psu.edu> From: pac Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 16:51:18 +0200 Okay, I understand. I love black humor, too! No flames. Cheers, Peter. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 9 01:18:52 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 9 01:18:52 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 7797 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Jun 2001 01:27:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7793 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2001 01:27:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Jun 2001 01:27:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 089E9199E6; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 12:27:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from irixbum.ca (h24-66-237-254.ss.shawcable.net [24.66.237.254]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A1DA199DC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 12:26:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aam396@localhost) by irixbum.ca (SGI-8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03382 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 10:24:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: irixbum.ca: aam396 owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski X-Sender: aam396@irixbum.ca To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here. In-Reply-To: <200106081420.KAA09704@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 10:24:13 -0700 i've posted that before, but... here's my p9 presentation for an undergraduate project i did last year, html-ed off of powerpoint: http://homepage.usask.ca/aam396/P9BL.html andrey On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Dan Cross wrote: > In article <20010608135051.65A5F199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu> you write: > >I'd love to see them. > > I would, too. > > - Dan C. > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 9 06:05:52 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 9 06:05:52 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 9619 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Jun 2001 06:14:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9615 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2001 06:14:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Jun 2001 06:14:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 147AF19A0F; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 17:14:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 93ECE199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 17:13:18 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3ciscupdate v148.2.1) From: arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here. References: <200106080930.LAA04591@boris.cd.chalmers.se> Message-Id: <20010608211318.93ECE199D7@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 05:24:36 +0900 Hello, >I want to make a `this is plan 9' presentation to them. >Can I get notes and stuff from you? Also, what works? >What will impress them? Andyes i _have_ the papers >from 1127, the stuff I want to steal from you is what >you did with that. If your system is running on 9fs kernel, dumpfs is a good candidate. bind -b /n/dump/2001/0401 / will impress them. Kenji Arisawa E-mail: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 9 07:14:50 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 9 07:14:50 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 10031 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Jun 2001 07:23:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10027 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2001 07:23:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Jun 2001 07:23:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 23177199EC; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 18:23:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (verlaine.noos.net [212.198.2.73]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 928D0199DC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 18:22:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 45898803 invoked by uid 0); 8 Jun 2001 22:22:48 -0000 Received: from s232.dhcp212-198-183.noos.fr (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by verlaine.noos.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 8 Jun 2001 22:22:48 -0000 Message-ID: <01ac01c0f069$6d4c1970$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010608125901.6A71219A50@mail.cse.psu.edu> <007601c0f01d$4b523350$6401a8c0@freeze2k> Subject: Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 00:21:55 +0200 > > Hire brittany spears > > > She's not Open in today's london's _the sun_ i read she was in hiding 'cos of a major zit problem. guess reading _the sun_ is an occupational hazard, in brit ex-pat bars, if you want to drink cider and you're not in normandy. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 9 07:25:52 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 9 07:25:52 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 10139 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Jun 2001 07:34:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10135 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2001 07:34:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Jun 2001 07:34:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E14EF199F6; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 18:34:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D121B199DC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 18:33:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010608223332.NJIB290.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 23:33:32 +0100 Message-ID: <010301c0f06a$fad50d00$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010608125901.6A71219A50@mail.cse.psu.edu> <007601c0f01d$4b523350$6401a8c0@freeze2k> <01ac01c0f069$6d4c1970$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> Subject: Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 23:33:02 +0100 it's probably stretching the definition of "reading" > > > Hire brittany spears > > > > > She's not Open > > in today's london's _the sun_ i read she was in hiding 'cos of > a major zit problem. guess reading _the sun_ is an occupational > hazard, in brit ex-pat bars, if you want to drink cider and you're > not in normandy. > > > --- AVG Scanned for viruses Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.261 / Virus Database: 131 - Release Date: 07/06/2001 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 9 07:33:50 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 9 07:33:50 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 10197 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Jun 2001 07:42:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10193 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2001 07:42:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Jun 2001 07:42:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6F195199EC; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 18:42:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (camus.noos.net [212.198.2.70]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9B86C199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 18:41:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 4035598 invoked by uid 0); 8 Jun 2001 22:41:31 -0000 Received: from s232.dhcp212-198-183.noos.fr (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by camus.noos.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 8 Jun 2001 22:41:31 -0000 Message-ID: <021c01c0f06c$0b7d7740$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010608125901.6A71219A50@mail.cse.psu.edu> <007601c0f01d$4b523350$6401a8c0@freeze2k> <01ac01c0f069$6d4c1970$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> <010301c0f06a$fad50d00$6401a8c0@freeze2k> Subject: Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 00:40:39 +0200 > it's probably stretching the definition of "reading" true, but every once in a while you have to check how truly awful it really is. i don't think they can even count now 'cos the 'page 3' girl is no longer on page 3. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 9 07:36:53 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 9 07:36:53 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 10220 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Jun 2001 07:45:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10216 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2001 07:45:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Jun 2001 07:45:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 899BA199F3; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 18:45:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (mta03-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.43]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 84099199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 18:44:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010608224452.RNCN283.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 23:44:52 +0100 Message-ID: <011601c0f06c$902daaa0$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010608125901.6A71219A50@mail.cse.psu.edu> <007601c0f01d$4b523350$6401a8c0@freeze2k> <01ac01c0f069$6d4c1970$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> <010301c0f06a$fad50d00$6401a8c0@freeze2k> <021c01c0f06c$0b7d7740$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> Subject: Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 23:44:22 +0100 it's like a car crash, a little bit horrible but you can't help looking ----- Original Message ----- From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 11:40 PM Subject: Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here. > > it's probably stretching the definition of "reading" > > true, but every once in a while you have to check how > truly awful it really is. i don't think they can even > count now 'cos the 'page 3' girl is no longer on page 3. > > > > --- AVG Scanned for viruses Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.261 / Virus Database: 131 - Release Date: 07/06/2001 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 9 10:40:51 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 9 10:40:51 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 12415 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Jun 2001 10:49:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12411 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2001 10:49:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Jun 2001 10:49:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D2DDB199E8; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 21:49:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gsyc.escet.urjc.es (gsyc.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.45]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 05663199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 21:48:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nido.hilbert.space (root@62-36-131-45.dialup.uni2.es [62.36.131.45]) by gsyc.escet.urjc.es (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id DAA04414 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 03:48:01 +0200 X-Authentication-Warning: gsyc.escet.urjc.es: Host root@62-36-131-45.dialup.uni2.es [62.36.131.45] claimed to be nido.hilbert.space Received: (from gorka@localhost) by nido.hilbert.space (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id DAA01365; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 03:48:30 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15137.32872.579696.456702@nido.hilbert.space> From: paurea@dei.inf.uc3m.es To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here. In-Reply-To: <200106080930.LAA04591@boris.cd.chalmers.se>:Laura Creighton's message of 11:30:27 Friday,8 June 2001 References: <200106080930.LAA04591@boris.cd.chalmers.se> X-Mailer: VM 6.85 under Emacs 20.7.2 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 03:48:24 +0200 Laura Creighton writes: > From: Laura Creighton > Subject: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here. > Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:30:27 +0200 (MET DST) > > I want to make a `this is plan 9' presentation to them. Can I get notes > and stuff from you? Also, what works? What will impress them? And > yes i _have_ the papers from 1127, the stuff I want to steal from you > is what you did with that. I have shown plan9 to a lot of people and it is *very* difficult to impress newcomers, because they expect advanced graphics... That said, I recommend using acme to navigate around some sources and running some grep or some script on ftpfs. -- Saludos, Gorka "Curiosity sKilled the cat" -- /"\ \ / ascii ribbon campaign - against html mail X - against ms attachments / \ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 9 12:16:52 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 9 12:16:52 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 14114 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Jun 2001 12:25:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14110 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2001 12:25:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Jun 2001 12:25:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B0B87199E8; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 23:25:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Princeton.EDU (postoffice.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.120]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1DE7F199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 23:24:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU (smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.65]) by Princeton.EDU (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05725 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 23:24:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from princeton.edu (lane.Princeton.EDU [128.112.52.125]) by smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA18530 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 23:24:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B2196DC.9A58D963@princeton.edu> From: Martin Harriss X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-5.0 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here. References: <20010608125901.6A71219A50@mail.cse.psu.edu> <007601c0f01d$4b523350$6401a8c0@freeze2k> <01ac01c0f069$6d4c1970$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> <010301c0f06a$fad50d00$6401a8c0@freeze2k> <021c01c0f06c$0b7d7740$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 23:24:12 -0400 Boyd Roberts wrote: > > > it's probably stretching the definition of "reading" > > true, but every once in a while you have to check how > truly awful it really is. i don't think they can even > count now 'cos the 'page 3' girl is no longer on page 3. No longer on Page Three? Surely this means the end of the British Empire! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 9 12:55:49 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 9 12:55:49 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 14858 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Jun 2001 13:04:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14854 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2001 13:04:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Jun 2001 13:04:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 58E21199EC; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 00:04:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.Sun.COM (mercury.Sun.COM [192.9.25.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8CB5A199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 00:03:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from engmail2.Eng.Sun.COM ([129.146.1.25]) by mercury.Sun.COM (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03627 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 21:03:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from moe (silveroak.Eng.Sun.COM [129.146.124.75]) by engmail2.Eng.Sun.COM (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3/ENSMAIL,v2.1p1) with ESMTP id VAA17340 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 21:03:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200106090403.VAA17340@engmail2.Eng.Sun.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.388) From: Jonathan Sergent To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v388) In-Reply-To: <15137.32872.579696.456702@nido.hilbert.space> Subject: Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 21:04:01 -0700 On Friday, June 8, 2001, at 06:48 PM, paurea@dei.inf.uc3m.es wrote: > I have shown plan9 to a lot of people and it is *very* difficult to > impress newcomers, because they expect advanced graphics... That > said, I recommend using acme to navigate around some sources and > running some grep or some script on ftpfs. So does anyone have any graphics demos? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 9 21:08:50 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 9 21:08:50 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19988 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Jun 2001 21:17:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19983 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2001 21:17:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Jun 2001 21:17:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 872A8199EE; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 08:17:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from haddock.cd.chalmers.se (haddock.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3DF96199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 08:16:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (boris.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.21]) by haddock.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA11502; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 14:16:23 +0200 (MET DST) From: Laura Creighton Received: (from lac@localhost) by boris.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3/8.8.7) id OAA08427; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 14:16:23 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200106091216.OAA08427@boris.cd.chalmers.se> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: lac@cd.chalmers.se Subject: [9fans] could those of you who have students check this out for me? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 14:16:23 +0200 (MET DST) I have discovered that today's computer science students, at least some extremely good ones from here at any rate, think that algorithms are a consumer good that you buy shrink-wrapped or something. At any rate, the idea of going to the math library, reading a math journal, and writing code of whatever strikes your fancy, is an utterly bizarre and strange thing to do. We had better rock some minds then if we want to have any cool algorithms to play with that we didn't make ourselves. Laura From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 9 21:43:48 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 9 21:43:48 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20300 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Jun 2001 21:52:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20296 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2001 21:52:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Jun 2001 21:52:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 78B7E199F2; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 08:52:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 63CC2199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 08:51:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11403 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 14:51:27 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from copernicus.cs.utwente.nl by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.8.8+Sun/csrelay-Sol1.4/RB) id OAA09947; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 14:51:29 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost by copernicus.cs.utwente.nl (8.8.8+Sun/SMI-SVR4) id OAA29124; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 14:51:28 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200106091251.OAA29124@copernicus.cs.utwente.nl> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 08 Jun 2001 10:24:13 -0700." References: From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 14:51:28 +0200 > i've posted that before, but... > > here's my p9 presentation for an undergraduate project i did last year, > html-ed off of powerpoint: > > http://homepage.usask.ca/aam396/P9BL.html I tried to grab this using wget (for off-line browsing) but did not succeed. Would it be possible to package the whole thing in a gzip-ed tar file or so? On the topic of spreading the word: I will be trying to convince my colleages about some of the nice features of plan9/inferno - in particular the advantage (abstraction) that you may get by using a file system as interface. The group I work in works on 'formal methods' both on theory and tools; the tools usualy consist of components that somehow interface which each other, and using file-system like interfaces seems very attractive. As proof-of-concept I made my first limbo program to 'unfold' (construct) the labelled transition system for a given automaton (finite state machine) step by step by repeatedly reading 'successor' files, and the result is that 'on top of that' we would be able to write a 'simulator' in a shell script. This turned out to be pretty convincing to the few coleagues I showed this so far. Now (one of) the questions that probably will come up (rephrased: that I hope to come up :-) is how we can integrate (profit from) the inferno/plan9 niceties (ideas, implementation environment) in our current development environment (sun/solaris, pc/linux), without comitting us completely to plan9 (I have running it on left-over hardware, I would be delighted but pretty surprised if I could convince people here to run plan9 on the desktop - most of our desktops are now sun; drawterm works) Foreseeable constraints are that: on the one hand we need still to be able to connect to legacy tools that live in the unix world and cannot be ported (e.g. because they depend on libraries for which we don't have source) and offer e.g. a C api on which we want to build, and on the other hand we want to still be able to distribute the tools we develope in such a way/shape that others can use them - and they likely run unix, not plan9. My first guess would be that developing in inferno/limbo could do the trick w.r.t. distribution, and that we could deal with legacy tools by building file-system interface wrappers around them. Any ideas, comments? Axel. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 9 23:16:49 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 9 23:16:49 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20911 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Jun 2001 23:25:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20907 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2001 23:25:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Jun 2001 23:25:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 50911199F3; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 10:25:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8AC58199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 10:24:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06400 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 10:24:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id KAA17259; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 10:24:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200106091424.KAA17259@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] could those of you who have students check this out for me? Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <200106091216.OAA08427@boris.cd.chalmers.se> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 10:24:34 -0400 (EDT) In article <200106091216.OAA08427@boris.cd.chalmers.se> you write: >I have discovered that today's computer science students, at least >some extremely good ones from here at any rate, think that algorithms >are a consumer good that you buy shrink-wrapped or something. At any >rate, the idea of going to the math library, reading a math journal, >and writing code of whatever strikes your fancy, is an utterly >bizarre and strange thing to do. We had better rock some minds then >if we want to have any cool algorithms to play with that we didn't make >ourselves. I agree, to some extent. Today's computer science programs are very much like sausage factories that turn out a mediocre product; computer scientists are the `spam' of the academic world. Why is that? Well, because the institutions let the students dictate the curriculum. Why is that? So they attract more students, so they can make more money. In turn, the majority of the students just want good jobs, and see a CS degree as a way of obtaining that. So, what ends up happening is that many students get vocational training in a four year undergraduate CS program, and end up coming out of school without any appreciation of even conception of the mathematical basis of comp sci. Without that understanding, they cannot build or even understand elegant systems; they are impressed by the thin veneer of the user interface and associate that wholy and completely with the underlying system. That's the only world they've known, and no one has taught them anything else. Of course, all of this is a sweeping generalization; there are obviously exceptions. Also, this isn't inherent in the students themselves; it's the Universities that do them a disservice by attempting to be ``relevant.'' But I've noticed a definate trend whereby students emerge with bachelor's degrees knowing more about Visual C++ than about, say, the basic sorting or graph traversal algorithms. It's a sad state of affairs, but I think that it will improve; I predict that within the next, say, 10 to 15 years, we'll start to see Software Engineering departments getting spun off from CS departments much as Electrical Engineering departments were once spun off from Physics. I predict that when this happens (if, indeed, it does at all) both departments will gain a new focus and retreat back to their core. I also predict that in industry, things like the IEEE Software Engineering certification will start to take off, leading to a greater focus on what's real versus what's hot today. We'll see. Oh, and no, I can't quite figure out how to teach Plan 9. Well, too things have worked so far; 1) As Kenji mentioned, the temporal filesystem is always a good demonstration; show them /n/dump. 2) I do a demo where I put an audio CD in my CD-ROM drive on my desktop machine, and then listen to it on my bitsy while walking around. That usually really impresses people, but assumes that you have a) an ``orinocco'' network, and b) a bitsy. Oh, and some audio CD's that people like. :-) - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 9 23:26:50 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 9 23:26:50 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 21001 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Jun 2001 23:35:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20997 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2001 23:35:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Jun 2001 23:35:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C1F2A199F4; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 10:35:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from irixbum.ca (h24-66-237-254.ss.shawcable.net [24.66.237.254]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9707E199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 10:34:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aam396@localhost) by irixbum.ca (SGI-8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04586 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 08:32:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: irixbum.ca: aam396 owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski X-Sender: aam396@irixbum.ca To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] could those of you who have students check this out for me? In-Reply-To: <200106091216.OAA08427@boris.cd.chalmers.se> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 08:32:35 -0700 our computer science department has strong roots in algorithmics. there is a second and two third year classes that deal entirely with them (the second year class is a prerequisite for most third year classes, the first third year class is taken by most computer science students, either willfully or not. the last class is usually taken by no more than 10 students and is required for honours). here are the class descriptions: CMPT 260: Mathematical Logic and Computing Focuses on elementary applied logic and set theory and relates these concepts to a variety of computer science areas such as syntactic analysis, relational databases, logic programming, artificial intelligence, and formal program verification. Textbook: W. K. Grassmann, J. P. Tremblay: Logic and Discrete Mathematics, a Computer Science Perspective Prentice Hall 1996. CMPT 360: Machines and Algorithms The first part develops and analyzes some standard techniques for algorithm development which are widely applicable to computer science problems. The second part analyzes several models of computers so that their capabilities are known. Text: Fundamentals of Algorithmics, 1996 G. Brassard and P. Bratley CMPT 361: Intractable Problems and Models of Computation Problems which have no known efficient solution are studied; exact inefficient algorithm design techniques are introduced, as are efficient approximation algorithms. NP-completeness proofs are developed as evidence of intractability. Part of the course is a rigorous and systematic introduction to models of computation via formal language theory. Text: Computational Complexity by Papadimitriou Andrey On Sat, 9 Jun 2001, Laura Creighton wrote: > I have discovered that today's computer science students, at least > some extremely good ones from here at any rate, think that algorithms > are a consumer good that you buy shrink-wrapped or something. At any > rate, the idea of going to the math library, reading a math journal, > and writing code of whatever strikes your fancy, is an utterly > bizarre and strange thing to do. We had better rock some minds then > if we want to have any cool algorithms to play with that we didn't make > ourselves. > > Laura > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 9 23:37:50 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 9 23:37:50 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 21092 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Jun 2001 23:46:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21088 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2001 23:46:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Jun 2001 23:46:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1DE0F199F5; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 10:46:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from irixbum.ca (h24-66-237-254.ss.shawcable.net [24.66.237.254]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DA9DE199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 10:45:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aam396@localhost) by irixbum.ca (SGI-8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04623 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 08:42:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: irixbum.ca: aam396 owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski X-Sender: aam396@irixbum.ca To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here. In-Reply-To: <200106091251.OAA29124@copernicus.cs.utwente.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 08:42:45 -0700 On Sat, 9 Jun 2001, Axel Belinfante wrote: > > I tried to grab this using wget (for off-line browsing) but did not succeed. > Would it be possible to package the whole thing in a gzip-ed tar file or so? yeah... it is a powerpoint presentation saved in .html format and uses javascript heavily. it normally redirects you to another page... they really created this with a certain MS browser in mind. I suggest snagging the actual powerpoint presentation and then saving it as html locally (my quota prevents me from putting a .tgz copy of it on the web) the powerpoint presentation is located at: http://homepage.usask.ca/aam396/P9BL.ppt andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 10 02:19:49 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 10 02:19:49 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22969 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Jun 2001 02:28:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22965 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2001 02:28:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Jun 2001 02:28:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4141D199F2; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 13:28:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from subito.home.cs.york.ac.uk (caldo.demon.co.uk [194.222.207.148]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1DED7199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 13:27:03 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] could those of you who have students check this out for From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010609172703.1DED7199D7@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 18:22:58 +0100 >>our computer science department has strong roots in algorithmics. that might be true, but do the students, in the main, write programs except those they are required to do for assessments and projects? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 10 02:44:49 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 10 02:44:49 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 23211 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Jun 2001 02:53:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23207 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2001 02:53:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Jun 2001 02:53:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7F27A199F3; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 13:53:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from irixbum.ca (h24-66-237-254.ss.shawcable.net [24.66.237.254]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 31C3C199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 13:52:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aam396@localhost) by irixbum.ca (SGI-8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04863 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 11:50:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: irixbum.ca: aam396 owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski X-Sender: aam396@irixbum.ca To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: <20010609172703.1DED7199D7@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 11:50:08 -0700 unfortunately dan cross is very right in his analysis -- most of the students care not for algorithmics. the three classes i listed are the most hated ones (together with the "Systems Programming and Introduction to Operating Systems", the UNIX class) simply because they actually make the students think... there are the occasional bad apples who explore the field, write code and are interested in the 'science' part of 'computer science'.. the others are happy to get their 3 year degrees and drone off to the job market. andrey On Sat, 9 Jun 2001 forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk wrote: > >>our computer science department has strong roots in algorithmics. > > that might be true, but do the students, in the main, write programs > except those they are required to do for assessments and projects? > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 10 02:48:50 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 10 02:48:50 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 23258 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Jun 2001 02:57:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23254 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2001 02:57:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Jun 2001 02:57:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AC43C199F5; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 13:57:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (claudel.noos.net [212.198.2.83]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7769A199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 13:56:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 4543121 invoked by uid 0); 9 Jun 2001 17:55:21 -0000 Received: from s232.dhcp212-198-183.noos.fr (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by claudel.noos.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 9 Jun 2001 17:55:21 -0000 Message-ID: <041601c0f10d$72dabaa0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 19:56:02 +0200 i don't think i'd go so far to call it a science -- more like an art. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 10 03:02:48 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 10 03:02:48 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 23421 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Jun 2001 03:11:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23417 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2001 03:11:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Jun 2001 03:11:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A504D199F6; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 14:11:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from haddock.cd.chalmers.se (haddock.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BBDE3199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 14:09:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (boris.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.21]) by haddock.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA22612; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 20:09:54 +0200 (MET DST) From: Laura Creighton Received: (from lac@localhost) by boris.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3/8.8.7) id UAA09335; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 20:09:53 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200106091809.UAA09335@boris.cd.chalmers.se> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: lac@cd.chalmers.se Subject: [9fans] students .... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 20:09:53 +0200 (MET DST) I do not want you to get the idea that all Chalmers students are mushrooms. I found out about this problem in the discussion that followed one student, an EE major it seems, who said `I didn't understand what you asked me to do yesterday, so I went to the library and found out.' Laura From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 10 07:57:49 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 10 07:57:49 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 26983 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Jun 2001 08:06:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26979 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2001 08:06:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Jun 2001 08:06:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE19F199EE; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 19:06:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cosym.net (sdsl-64-7-3-116.dsl.nyc.megapath.net [64.7.3.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9B198199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 19:05:49 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: anothy@cosym.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20010609230549.9B198199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] comp sci departments in universities Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 19:05:38 -0400 //It's a sad state of affairs, but I think that it will improve; i think it already has, at least in some places. many universities were catering to the dot-coms, hoping that the resulting alums would give money back to the school. Stanford took a lot of heat for this practice because - unlike most schools - they came out and said it. but i think the mentality that fuled the decisions in many universities to make C++ a student's first programing language were fuled - at least largely - by those universities lust for a bit of that pie. and as the dot-com era ends - or at least the money returns to sub-stratospheric levels - at least some universities have reversed that decision. i think more will follow, if only for the purely economic reason that they find their alums are less qualified in the industry as a whole - once they leave their dot-com who's primary products are their web site and their stock - and thus less able to give the university cash back. of cource, i'd _like_ to believe that many universities will come to their senses for more "pure" reasons - realizing that what they're teaching isn't computer science at all - but i'm a bit too skeptical to buy that without evidence. -α. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 10 20:07:54 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 10 20:07:54 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 3158 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Jun 2001 20:16:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3154 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2001 20:16:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Jun 2001 20:16:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 81BFC199F6; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 07:16:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (mta07-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.47]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C8FBB199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 07:15:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010610111516.HYEN285.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 12:15:16 +0100 Message-ID: <009501c0f19e$8874b2d0$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [9fans] string to list? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 12:14:35 +0100 Hi, list to string is documented : list=(How now brown cow) string=$"list but how do I go the other way? specifically I'm want to parse IRC messages with RC given :Matt!~matt@hostname.com PRIVMSG #[s.i.s.] :some text I want to turn it into $nick $host $msgtype $channel $msg can someone bash me with the cluestick please. Matt --- AVG Scanned for viruses Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.261 / Virus Database: 131 - Release Date: 07/06/2001 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 10 23:15:47 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 10 23:15:47 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 5589 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Jun 2001 23:24:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5584 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2001 23:24:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Jun 2001 23:24:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E844199F7; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 10:24:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from irixbum.ca (h24-66-237-254.ss.shawcable.net [24.66.237.254]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ECB8A199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 10:23:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aam396@localhost) by irixbum.ca (SGI-8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06092 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 08:20:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: irixbum.ca: aam396 owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski X-Sender: aam396@irixbum.ca To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] string to list? In-Reply-To: <009501c0f19e$8874b2d0$6401a8c0@freeze2k> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 08:20:53 -0700 rc irc client? sounds reasonable :) i wish i could find my 80-line C irc client i wrote last year for p9 (it was my first project :).. come to think of it though, rc is a much better idea and a funnier one to implement :) wish i had a working p9 installation, i could've helped! On Sun, 10 Jun 2001, Matt wrote: > specifically I'm want to parse IRC messages with RC > > given > :Matt!~matt@hostname.com PRIVMSG #[s.i.s.] :some text > > I want to turn it into > > $nick $host $msgtype $channel $msg > > can someone bash me with the cluestick please. > how about awk? daemonize an awk program if RC does not five you the utility to do it :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 10 23:39:45 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 10 23:39:45 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 5896 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Jun 2001 23:48:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5892 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2001 23:48:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Jun 2001 23:48:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 80544199F9; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 10:48:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (descartes.noos.net [212.198.2.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 433CF199F5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 10:47:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 4641877 invoked by uid 0); 10 Jun 2001 14:47:41 -0000 Received: from s232.dhcp212-198-183.noos.fr (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by descartes.noos.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 10 Jun 2001 14:47:41 -0000 Message-ID: <059a01c0f1bc$2a54a570$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <009501c0f19e$8874b2d0$6401a8c0@freeze2k> Subject: Re: [9fans] string to list? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 16:46:42 +0200 > :Matt!~matt@hostname.com PRIVMSG #[s.i.s.] :some text > > I want to turn it into > > $nick $host $msgtype $channel $msg eval `{echo $irctext | awk '{ ... }'} where the awk spits: nick='...' etc From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 00:01:46 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 00:01:46 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 6140 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 00:10:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6136 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 00:10:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 00:10:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1E921199FA; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 11:10:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skeeve.com (ads5.ads.active.net.il [192.117.127.213]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE786199F7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 11:09:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from arnold@localhost) by skeeve.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) id f5AF9Gf22471 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 18:09:16 +0300 From: Aharon Robbins Message-Id: <200106101509.f5AF9Gf22471@skeeve.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] which PCMCIA modem? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 18:09:16 +0300 I want to buy a new 56k PCMCIA modem card for my laptop, which will hopefully one day run Plan 9. Winmodems are death, that's for sure. In looking at the US Robotics web page, the 3CP00305[67] seem to be what I would want, but their pop-up description blurbs say that they won't work on anything but a Microsoft OS. So, recommendations anyone? Linux support a necessity, Plan 9 support would be wonderful. Thanks, Arnold Robbins From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 00:14:46 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 00:14:46 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 6248 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 00:23:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6244 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 00:23:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 00:23:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BF7C6199FF; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 11:23:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8EAE2199F7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 11:22:27 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] which PCMCIA modem? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010610152227.8EAE2199F7@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 11:22:25 -0400 I use the xircom one. It's 16550 compatible so it should work with pretty much any os. All I can say is that it works well with Lucent's dial up nodes. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 02:30:45 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 02:30:45 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 7115 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 02:39:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7111 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 02:39:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 02:39:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA4E8199F5; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 13:39:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (mta05-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.45]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C09B51998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 13:38:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lappy ([62.254.2.198]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010610173800.MSYM4151.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@lappy> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 18:38:00 +0100 Message-ID: <000e01c0f1d3$4c0ba940$6501a8c0@lappy> From: "vikki" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] string to list? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 18:32:15 +0100 >rc irc client? sounds reasonable :) >i wish i could find my 80-line C irc client i wrote last year for p9 (it was >my first project :).. come to think of it though, rc is a much better idea >and a funnier one to implement :) wish i had a working p9 installation, i >could've helped! We're having a bit of a competition at work. They've got their monolithic perl bot running. I'm trying to impress them with the plan9 version as a learning exercise. I plan to have it do eval `{$msg} and do whatever it's namespace will let it. They keep adding code to the perl bot and getting deeper and deeper. Already they've had to split it in half (on my suggestion :-) to separate information gathering and display. >how about awk? daemonize an awk program if RC does not five you the >utility to do it :) yeah that's a good idea. I didn't fancy spawning awk for every line of irc. I did wonder one day why plan9 has any command line utilities at all apart from bind, mount, import, unmount , cd, echo and cat. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 02:48:46 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 02:48:46 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 7218 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 02:57:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7214 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 02:57:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 02:57:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B2FDB199F7; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 13:57:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (camus.noos.net [212.198.2.70]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 93CBE1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 13:56:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 4745229 invoked by uid 0); 10 Jun 2001 17:56:44 -0000 Received: from s232.dhcp212-198-183.noos.fr (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by camus.noos.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 10 Jun 2001 17:56:44 -0000 Message-ID: <064501c0f1d6$93aae600$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <000e01c0f1d3$4c0ba940$6501a8c0@lappy> Subject: Re: [9fans] string to list? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:55:45 +0200 > yeah that's a good idea. I didn't fancy spawning awk for every line of irc. how about gross ifs/fn/`{...} trickery? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 02:55:45 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 02:55:45 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 7282 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 03:04:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7278 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 03:04:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 03:04:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 907BA199F9; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 14:04:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [130.203.12.17] (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9F5641998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 14:03:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 15363 invoked by uid 991); 10 Jun 2001 18:03:20 -0000 Message-ID: <20010610180320.15361.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] string to list? In-Reply-To: Message from "vikki" of "Sun, 10 Jun 2001 18:32:15 BST." <000e01c0f1d3$4c0ba940$6501a8c0@lappy> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 14:03:20 -0400 | I plan to have it do eval `{$msg} and do whatever it's | namespace will let it. I really wouldn't do that. It's just too unpredictable and dangerous. eval considered harmful. cmd=`{echo $msg} if (fgrep -f okcmdlist $cmd(1)) { $cmd } From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 03:01:46 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 03:01:46 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 7327 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 03:10:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7323 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 03:10:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 03:10:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4BFBE199FA; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 14:10:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (descartes.noos.net [212.198.2.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C8741998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 14:09:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 4702511 invoked by uid 0); 10 Jun 2001 17:47:59 -0000 Received: from s232.dhcp212-198-183.noos.fr (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by descartes.noos.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 10 Jun 2001 17:47:59 -0000 Message-ID: <064101c0f1d5$5a61f0b0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <000e01c0f1d3$4c0ba940$6501a8c0@lappy> Subject: Re: [9fans] string to list? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:47:01 +0200 > They've got their monolithic perl bot running. that's kinda funny, in a 'finally got it to run' sense. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 05:54:49 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 05:54:49 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 8342 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 06:03:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8338 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 06:03:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 06:03:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2BD3D199F6; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 17:03:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3335A199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 17:02:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010610210215.FRNK290.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 22:02:15 +0100 Message-ID: <001901c0f1f0$86e8e970$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <009501c0f19e$8874b2d0$6401a8c0@freeze2k> <059a01c0f1bc$2a54a570$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> Subject: Re: [9fans] string to list? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 22:01:31 +0100 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Boyd Roberts" > > :Matt!~matt@hostname.com PRIVMSG #[s.i.s.] :some text > > > > I want to turn it into > > > > $nick $host $msgtype $channel $msg > > eval `{echo $irctext | awk '{ ... }'} thanks for pushing me through the door marked awk a journey well worth taking --- AVG Scanned for viruses Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.261 / Virus Database: 131 - Release Date: 06/06/2001 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 06:39:48 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 06:39:48 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 8611 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 06:48:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8607 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 06:48:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 06:48:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CC171199F6; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 17:48:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (zola.noos.net [212.198.2.76]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B9954199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 17:47:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 2724979 invoked by uid 0); 10 Jun 2001 21:10:02 -0000 Received: from s232.dhcp212-198-183.noos.fr (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by zola.noos.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 10 Jun 2001 21:10:02 -0000 Message-ID: <06f501c0f1f1$940baf60$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <009501c0f19e$8874b2d0$6401a8c0@freeze2k> <059a01c0f1bc$2a54a570$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> <001901c0f1f0$86e8e970$6401a8c0@freeze2k> Subject: Re: [9fans] string to list? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 23:09:03 +0200 > thanks for pushing me through the door marked awk > a journey well worth taking just be careful with that eval, eugene. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 06:41:48 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 06:41:48 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 8629 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 06:50:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8625 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 06:50:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 06:50:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0E180199F8; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 17:50:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (mta06-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.46]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DF54F199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 17:49:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010610214935.DVRH285.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 22:49:35 +0100 Message-ID: <002501c0f1f7$235fa220$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010610180320.15361.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] string to list? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 22:48:51 +0100 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Schwartz" > | I plan to have it do eval `{$msg} and do whatever it's > | namespace will let it. > > I really wouldn't do that. It's just too unpredictable and dangerous. > eval considered harmful. being as I've not implemented it my understanding is weak but I thought that I could dictate the namespace that a process sees. If the total namespace the ircbot process sees is / /bin/opme /bin/cat /bin/ls /bin/eval /bin/echo /slashdotheadlines then all ircbot can do is combinations like echo eval 'ls /bin' echo eval 'opme' echo eval 'cat /slashdotheadlines' but because it can't bind new files in or import them it can't manipulate it's namespace via the eval From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 07:16:46 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 07:16:46 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 8865 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 07:25:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8861 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 07:25:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 07:25:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 921E2199F6; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 18:25:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [130.203.12.17] (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 35FD3199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 18:24:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 24422 invoked by uid 991); 10 Jun 2001 22:24:36 -0000 Message-ID: <20010610222436.24420.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] string to list? In-Reply-To: Message from "Matt" of "Sun, 10 Jun 2001 22:48:51 BST." <002501c0f1f7$235fa220$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 18:24:35 -0400 | ...I thought that I could dictate the namespace that a process sees. Yes, unless you someone makes a mistake. But there's more to it than that. eval gives the bad guys unrestricted access to the shell, which you probably don't want. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 07:23:48 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 07:23:48 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 8920 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 07:32:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8916 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 07:32:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 07:32:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 422B5199F9; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 18:32:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (lafontaine.noos.net [212.198.2.72]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7EE0E199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 18:31:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 4733066 invoked by uid 0); 10 Jun 2001 22:31:17 -0000 Received: from s232.dhcp212-198-183.noos.fr (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by lafontaine.noos.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 10 Jun 2001 22:31:17 -0000 Message-ID: <073d01c0f1fc$edcbc160$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010610222436.24420.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] string to list? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 00:30:18 +0200 > which you probably don't want. s/probably/definitely/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 07:28:47 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 07:28:47 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 8951 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 07:37:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8947 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 07:37:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 07:37:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C8E68199FC; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 18:37:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ETLA.NET (c61066-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.1.50.197]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9CA12199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 18:36:22 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] string to list? From: Jonathan Sergent MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-chhdyqwwoesjgzgoainaafsdgo" Message-Id: <20010610223622.9CA12199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 15:36:21 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-chhdyqwwoesjgzgoainaafsdgo Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Doesn't the availability of '#s' (i.e. '#s'/boot) break this (unless you are in group noworld)? What's wrong with words=(`{echo $line}) and then switch($words(1))? --upas-chhdyqwwoesjgzgoainaafsdgo Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by ETLA.NET; Sun Jun 10 14:50:12 PDT 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7AA5D199E7; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 17:50:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (mta06-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.46]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DF54F199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 17:49:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010610214935.DVRH285.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 22:49:35 +0100 Message-ID: <002501c0f1f7$235fa220$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010610180320.15361.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] string to list? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 22:48:51 +0100 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Schwartz" > | I plan to have it do eval `{$msg} and do whatever it's > | namespace will let it. > > I really wouldn't do that. It's just too unpredictable and dangerous. > eval considered harmful. being as I've not implemented it my understanding is weak but I thought that I could dictate the namespace that a process sees. If the total namespace the ircbot process sees is / /bin/opme /bin/cat /bin/ls /bin/eval /bin/echo /slashdotheadlines then all ircbot can do is combinations like echo eval 'ls /bin' echo eval 'opme' echo eval 'cat /slashdotheadlines' but because it can't bind new files in or import them it can't manipulate it's namespace via the eval --upas-chhdyqwwoesjgzgoainaafsdgo-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 08:14:51 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 08:14:51 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 9294 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 08:23:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9290 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 08:23:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 08:23:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 70DE2199F8; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:23:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B3019199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:22:55 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] string to list? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-zdajvtwewmznaotxkziyzvpisa" Message-Id: <20010610232255.B3019199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:22:54 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-zdajvtwewmznaotxkziyzvpisa Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You can turn off access to all '#' devices except #{|decp}. Look at RFNOMNT on rfork. I believe 'rfork m' in rc does an rfork(RFNOMNT). --upas-zdajvtwewmznaotxkziyzvpisa Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Jun 10 18:37:23 EDT 2001 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sun Jun 10 18:37:22 EDT 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 49711199FA; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 18:37:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ETLA.NET (c61066-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.1.50.197]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9CA12199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 18:36:22 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] string to list? From: Jonathan Sergent MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-chhdyqwwoesjgzgoainaafsdgo" Message-Id: <20010610223622.9CA12199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 15:36:21 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-chhdyqwwoesjgzgoainaafsdgo Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Doesn't the availability of '#s' (i.e. '#s'/boot) break this (unless you are in group noworld)? What's wrong with words=(`{echo $line}) and then switch($words(1))? --upas-chhdyqwwoesjgzgoainaafsdgo Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by ETLA.NET; Sun Jun 10 14:50:12 PDT 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7AA5D199E7; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 17:50:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (mta06-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.46]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DF54F199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 17:49:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010610214935.DVRH285.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 22:49:35 +0100 Message-ID: <002501c0f1f7$235fa220$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010610180320.15361.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] string to list? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 22:48:51 +0100 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Schwartz" > | I plan to have it do eval `{$msg} and do whatever it's > | namespace will let it. > > I really wouldn't do that. It's just too unpredictable and dangerous. > eval considered harmful. being as I've not implemented it my understanding is weak but I thought that I could dictate the namespace that a process sees. If the total namespace the ircbot process sees is / /bin/opme /bin/cat /bin/ls /bin/eval /bin/echo /slashdotheadlines then all ircbot can do is combinations like echo eval 'ls /bin' echo eval 'opme' echo eval 'cat /slashdotheadlines' but because it can't bind new files in or import them it can't manipulate it's namespace via the eval --upas-chhdyqwwoesjgzgoainaafsdgo-- --upas-zdajvtwewmznaotxkziyzvpisa-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 08:27:49 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 08:27:49 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 9427 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 08:36:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9423 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 08:36:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 08:36:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B8395199F9; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:36:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [130.203.12.17] (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 833E4199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:35:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 26935 invoked by uid 991); 10 Jun 2001 23:35:28 -0000 Message-ID: <20010610233528.26933.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] string to list? In-Reply-To: Message from presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com of "Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:22:54 EDT." <20010610232255.B3019199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:35:27 -0400 | You can turn off access to all '#' devices except #{|decp}. Look | at RFNOMNT on rfork. I believe 'rfork m' in rc does an rfork(RFNOMNT). The manpage doesn't mention those exceptions. Why can't you turn off access to them too? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 09:07:47 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 09:07:47 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 10056 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 09:16:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10052 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 09:16:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 09:16:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D159199F8; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 20:16:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 140B9199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 20:15:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010611001553.IYRR290.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 01:15:53 +0100 Message-ID: <006201c0f20b$9319af70$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010610223622.9CA12199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] string to list? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 01:15:08 +0100 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Sergent" > What's wrong with words=(`{echo $line}) and then switch($words(1))? that is the answer I was looking for originally, thanks From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 10:37:49 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 10:37:49 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 12209 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 10:46:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12205 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 10:46:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 10:46:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 76AC3199F7; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 21:46:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 27D2D199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 21:45:37 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] string to list? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-pjixxvxknxigtknagkrapmlofb" Message-Id: <20010611014537.27D2D199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 21:45:35 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-pjixxvxknxigtknagkrapmlofb Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Turning off the ability to use pipes and the environment means you pretty much can't run any programs. Turning of the ability to open /dev/fd doesn't really save anything since you can always dup. The only ones that are really a problem are devproc and devcons. They are used for access to notes and to console i/o. They were left on since devcons protects itself, only the host owner can do anything important, and devproc needs to be linked in anyways so that stuff like notes works. Access to devproc needs to be rethought. I'm not sure the right semantics though. --upas-pjixxvxknxigtknagkrapmlofb Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Jun 10 19:36:23 EDT 2001 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sun Jun 10 19:36:22 EDT 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6258F199F7; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:36:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [130.203.12.17] (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 833E4199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:35:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 26935 invoked by uid 991); 10 Jun 2001 23:35:28 -0000 Message-ID: <20010610233528.26933.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] string to list? In-Reply-To: Message from presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com of "Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:22:54 EDT." <20010610232255.B3019199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:35:27 -0400 | You can turn off access to all '#' devices except #{|decp}. Look | at RFNOMNT on rfork. I believe 'rfork m' in rc does an rfork(RFNOMNT). The manpage doesn't mention those exceptions. Why can't you turn off access to them too? --upas-pjixxvxknxigtknagkrapmlofb-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 14:06:46 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 14:06:46 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 17719 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 14:15:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17715 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 14:15:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 14:15:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3B9A1199F7; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 01:15:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.91.52]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 25CC4199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 01:14:19 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here. From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-jptcsqtgihxojvhlvybvvjfmed" Message-Id: <20010611051419.25CC4199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 14:13:56 +0900 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-jptcsqtgihxojvhlvybvvjfmed Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When I tried to show it to our students, yes, I also felt it's not easy to do. However, as I know Plan 9 is very easy to maintain system and users, and to write programs, I started to do it by reading papers such as "Plan 9 from Bell Labs" etc. with them. Today, I asked Yoshitatsu what was his first impression of Plan 9 when he touched, and his answer is that it was "then, so what?". :-) I understand it, because Plan 9 doesn't have "killer application" except of acme. which is only for programmers or system maintainers. However, he is writing Plan 9 application now. However, this is not accepted by many of Japanese _SOFTWARE_ companies, if any... (sigh) Kenji --upas-jptcsqtgihxojvhlvybvvjfmed Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp ([192.168.1.3]) by diabase; Fri Jun 8 18:28:47 JST 2001 Received: from elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.103.2]) by granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11646; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 18:31:29 +0900 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (postfix@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (8.9.3/3.7W-01051514) with ESMTP id SAA10859; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 18:31:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE0E219A4F; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 05:31:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from haddock.cd.chalmers.se (haddock.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E9855199C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 05:30:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (boris.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.21]) by haddock.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA11040; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:30:27 +0200 (MET DST) From: Laura Creighton Received: (from lac@localhost) by boris.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3/8.8.7) id LAA04591; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:30:27 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200106080930.LAA04591@boris.cd.chalmers.se> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: lac@cd.chalmers.se Subject: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:30:27 +0200 (MET DST) I want to make a `this is plan 9' presentation to them. Can I get notes and stuff from you? Also, what works? What will impress them? And yes i _have_ the papers from 1127, the stuff I want to steal from you is what you did with that. Thanks very much, Laura Creighton --upas-jptcsqtgihxojvhlvybvvjfmed-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 15:12:55 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 15:12:55 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19463 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 15:21:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19458 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 15:21:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 15:21:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E0B55199F8; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 02:21:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5FB03199E7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 02:20:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id IAA15751 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 08:14:54 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Laura's theme (Long) (Was: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.) Message-ID: <20010611081451.A8737@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20010611051419.25CC4199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <20010611051419.25CC4199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu>; from okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp on Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 02:13:56PM +0900 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 08:14:52 +0200 Apologies for taking Laura Creighton's name in vain :-) On Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 02:13:56PM +0900, okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote: > > When I tried to show it to our students, yes, I also felt it's not easy to do. > However, as I know Plan 9 is very easy to maintain system and users, and > to write programs, I started to do it by reading papers such as "Plan 9 from > Bell Labs" etc. with them. > My enthusiasm was certainly fired by the papers, it was a long time after I discovered the first set of Plan 9 documents that I was given a chance to look at it. > Today, I asked Yoshitatsu what was his first impression of Plan 9 when he > touched, and his answer is that it was "then, so what?". :-) I understand it, > because Plan 9 doesn't have "killer application" except of acme. which is > only for programmers or system maintainers. However, he is writing Plan 9 > application now. However, this is not accepted by many of Japanese _SOFTWARE_ > companies, if any... (sigh) > Based on my somewhat narrow view of the computer field in the last few years, there have been very few killer apps: Lotus 1-2-3 (a better Visicalc, I should imagine), the web browser, MS Office (in an odd sense); underrated, but susprisingly significant (in my opinion, of course) are Quake and Microsoft Outlook. Quake is to Linux what 1-2-3 was to the IBM Personal Computer. Without it, I believe, Linux would still be as much of a curiosity as Plan 9 is today. Outlook is important because it is practically transparent. Most users are unlikely to know whether it is the Office version or Express as delivered with Internet Explorer. All Outlook users seem to believe that everyone else is also using Outlook, a bit like all automobile drivers assume that all other automobile driver knows what a steering wheel is. This insidious penetration is Microsoft's strongest marketing ploy. Plan 9 has too many of these aces up its sleeve. Like Linux, it should concentrate all its efforts on a single one, but of course, like with Linux, it is its community that defines the direction development takes. Without excluding myself from the criticism, the Plan 9 culture is inherently elitist, rather than evangelical. I'm about to embark on a cross-host debugging session (Inferno, rather than Plan 9, I'm not sure how successful I'm likely to be) and only when confronted by this need, did I realise that Laura's question about impressing students should have been answered by a cross-host task, the more convoluted, the better. No one else has proposed such an idea, and yet the main strength of the fileserver approach lies clearly in that quarter. "We hold these truths to be self-evident: ..." I really love that phrase. Plan 9's strengths are so self-evident, even we can't see them anymore :-) ++L PS: The jist of it all, is that ACME is Plan 9's killer app. If we could turn a Plan 9 system into a cross-platform (hardware _and_ Operating System platform, that is) development tool, it would doubtlessly eclipse the current IDEs. Porting Limbo (Alef) to the popular platforms (thank you, Bell-Labs and Vitanuova for Inferno, it's a pity we have to ask for more), with Acme, RC, the Plumber and MK, would be a great start. But these are not market oriented dreams, they address a more ideal than realistic world. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 17:02:47 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 17:02:47 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22625 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 17:11:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22621 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 17:11:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 17:11:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF55B199F9; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 04:11:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from borja.sarenet.es (borja.sarenet.es [192.148.167.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CFEFD199F6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 04:10:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from borja.sarenet.es (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by borja.sarenet.es (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f5B8Amr11079 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:10:49 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from borjam@sarenet.es) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Borja Marcos To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here. X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] References: <20010611051419.25CC4199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <20010611051419.25CC4199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01061110104803.10892@borja.sarenet.es> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:10:48 +0200 On Monday 11 June 2001 07:13, you wrote: > When I tried to show it to our students, yes, I also felt it's not easy to > do. However, as I know Plan 9 is very easy to maintain system and users, > and to write programs, I started to do it by reading papers such as "Plan 9 > from Bell Labs" etc. with them. Plan 9 is a distributed system. It looks especially designed for heterogeneous networks, the kind of real-world applications you can find. When I read the first paper about the design of Plan 9 and its way to accomodate heterogeneous networks, with both high-speed local networks and slow-speed dialup accesses, it was quite obvious that a similar design (and it was the Inferno design goal) would be excellent for a service provider such as a cable modem network (or xDSL) who deploys "network computers" instead of simple set-top boxes. Other distributed OSs (Amoeba, for example) are designed with local area networks in mind, using the network as a bus for a processor pool if I oversimplify it. Plan 9, on the other hand, allows the developer and network architect distribute the applications taking into account the available bandwidth in each of the networks involved. In a real world network, the bandwidths can be as low as 33600 bps (a pstn modem) and as high as a gigabit. Apart from the elegant design, I think it can be the most interesting feature for many people. Borja. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 17:11:46 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 17:11:46 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22847 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 17:20:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22843 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 17:20:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 17:20:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B596C199FC; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 04:20:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cejchan.gli.cas.cz (cejchan.gli.cas.cz [147.231.139.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F21D2199F7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 04:19:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cej by cejchan.gli.cas.cz with local (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 159N2y-0006nK-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:27:40 +0200 Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: X-Mailer: TkMail 4.0beta9 In-Reply-To: <041601c0f10d$72dabaa0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: pac Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:27:40 +0200 IMHO, CS is to mathematics, as medicine is to biology; personally, I call them both "technology" :-( Peter -- Peter A. Cejchan Dept. Paleobiology, Inst. Geology Acad. Sci., Rozvojova 135, Prague 6 CZ-16502 Czech Republic ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A plea: Please, consider your support to the Public Library of Science initiative at http://www.publiclibraryofscience.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 17:50:45 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 17:50:45 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 23803 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 17:59:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23799 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 17:59:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 17:59:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4DF6F199FE; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 04:59:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cejchan.gli.cas.cz (cejchan.gli.cas.cz [147.231.139.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C08F7199F8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 04:58:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cej by cejchan.gli.cas.cz with local (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 159Ney-0006oi-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:06:56 +0200 Subject: Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here. To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: X-Mailer: TkMail 4.0beta9 In-Reply-To: <20010611051419.25CC4199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> From: pac Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:06:56 +0200 Hi, I am a computer self -made-man, and will, probably, be pretty green in CS forever (I am a researcher in biology). However, I am _so_ impressed by Plan 9, and I'll tell you why: i) it shifts the paradigm from kernel to a universal protocol ii) everything is a file iii) it is _clean_ as it consistently uses i and ii, iv) it was designed from scratch with an _idea_ in mind v) the creators were not afraid (unlike many others) to throw away anything from the old stuff that seemed garbage vi) it is _elegant_, AFAI can judge, (cf., e.g., how elegantly it got rid of the X11, sic!) vii) it is minimalistic, I mean that everything is implemented carefully with respect to possible overhead, instead of "just be satisfied, boy, that the app works, and don't bother how (and why :-) I have some previous experience as a user/programmer under the following "OSes" (strating in mid-eighties): TI programmable calculator :-) -> CP/M -> DOS -> Windoze -> NEXTSTEP -> OpenStep -> GNU-Linux . I repeat I am a _greenhorn_ in CS, but take this as a "look from outside". Hope Plan 9 will remain clean, elegant, and open in the future (to remain also free would be nice, at least for us `Easties'). Thanks for it. Cheers, Peter. -- Peter A. Cejchan Dept. Paleobiology, Inst. Geology Acad. Sci., Rozvojova 135, Prague 6 CZ-16502 Czech Republic ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A plea: Please, consider your support to the Public Library of Science initiative at http://www.publiclibraryofscience.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 17:53:43 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 17:53:43 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 23868 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 18:02:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23864 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 18:02:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 18:02:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CD91E19A01; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 05:02:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A2164199F9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 05:01:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 159NNe-00050a-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:49:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Stephen King Message-ID: <3B24417D.4BD60FB7@bconnex.net> Organization: Northgate Information Systems Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] old NEC Versa S/50 useful? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 08:46:34 GMT I gather from all that I've read here and in the various FAQ that I will be able to get plan 9 running on my NEC Versa S/50 once I get a larger hard drive and NIC. Question is, will I then be able to do anything useful with it? I'm wondering about the performance I might expect from a 50MHz '486 - will it be so sluggish that I'll wish I hadn't bothered? This machine served me well for years, but Win3.1 has had it's time ;-) BTW. My other machine's a 7 year old Indy and it's going to give me a few more years of service! I HATE throwing away hardware that still works, and I really want to try a few things with Plan 9. Thanks! -- "I think my life is fuller because I realize that I don't know what I'm doing" - Richard Feynman, 1979. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 18:08:46 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 18:08:46 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 24117 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 18:17:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24113 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 18:17:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 18:17:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 629F019A04; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 05:17:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cejchan.gli.cas.cz (cejchan.gli.cas.cz [147.231.139.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 53454199FA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 05:16:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cej by cejchan.gli.cas.cz with local (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 159NwM-0006qR-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:24:54 +0200 Subject: Re: [9fans] old NEC Versa S/50 useful? To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: X-Mailer: TkMail 4.0beta9 In-Reply-To: <3B24417D.4BD60FB7@bconnex.net> From: pac Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:24:54 +0200 Don't throw away your hardware, but be prepared to throw away your software. However, it's worth it! Definitely, try Plan 9 out! Cross fingers, Peter -- Peter A. Cejchan Dept. Paleobiology, Inst. Geology Acad. Sci., Rozvojova 135, Prague 6 CZ-16502 Czech Republic ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A plea: Please, consider your support to the Public Library of Science initiative at http://www.publiclibraryofscience.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 19:05:46 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 19:05:46 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 24979 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 19:14:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24975 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 19:14:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 19:14:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C62B219A01; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 06:14:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from haddock.cd.chalmers.se (haddock.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DD77D199FC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 06:13:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (boris.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.21]) by haddock.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA10610; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:13:32 +0200 (MET DST) From: Laura Creighton Received: (from lac@localhost) by boris.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3/8.8.7) id MAA14426; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:13:31 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200106111013.MAA14426@boris.cd.chalmers.se> To: matt@proweb.co.uk Cc: lac@cd.chalmers.se, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] awk Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:13:31 +0200 (MET DST) it is very cool, but these days I do all my old awk things in python. Laura From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 19:10:47 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 19:10:47 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 25047 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 19:19:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25043 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 19:19:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 19:19:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ACA9919A08; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 06:19:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from haddock.cd.chalmers.se (haddock.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EBEBD19A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 06:18:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (boris.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.21]) by haddock.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA10823; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:18:47 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (IDENT:iGAUNY96UaJVItkUCPSyBSgZObpF3m3B@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by boris.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA14494; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:18:47 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200106111018.MAA14494@boris.cd.chalmers.se> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: lac@cd.chalmers.se Subject: Re: [9fans] string to list? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 10 Jun 2001 15:36:21 PDT." <20010610223622.9CA12199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> From: Laura Creighton Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:18:44 +0200 Python has a restricted eval that runs in a restricted environment. You can still mount a denial of service attack through that eval as far as I know however. Go ask in comp.lang.python where you can also get a python tutor if you wish. Laura . From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 19:30:43 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 19:30:43 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 25457 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 19:39:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25453 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 19:39:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 19:39:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1475819A08; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 06:39:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from relay1.mail.uk.psi.net (relay1.mail.uk.psi.net [154.32.105.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DBF35199FF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 06:38:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.snellwilcox.co.uk ([193.82.153.2] helo=mail.snellwilcox.com) by relay1.mail.uk.psi.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 159P5G-0005yZ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:38:10 +0100 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com Received: from ccMail by snellwilcox.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.52.01.1) id 1583788656; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:37:33 +0100 Importance: normal Priority: normal Subject: Re:[9fans] which PCMCIA modem? Message-Id: <1583788656@snellwilcox.com> X-MIME-Engine: v0.90 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Id: <1583788656-1@snellwilcox.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:34:22 +0100 Hi, I use a Psion Gold-card with success. You may want to yours to the list in pcmciamodem.c which I think speeds up booting - or perhaps I imagined that:-) -Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The contents of this communication are confidential to the normal user of the email address to which it was sent. If you have received this email in error, any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If this is the case, please notify the sender and delete this message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 19:31:43 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 19:31:43 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 25473 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 19:40:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25469 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 19:40:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 19:40:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3045219A0C; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 06:40:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (mta03-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.43]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 94B1819A09 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 06:39:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010611103929.QIXC283.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:39:29 +0100 Message-ID: <00ad01c0f262$af331050$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200106111018.MAA14494@boris.cd.chalmers.se> Subject: Re: [9fans] string to list? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:38:42 +0100 I'm the python guy in my office of perlies. but at the moment the RC shell is where it's at for me I think it would be nice if there were a plan9 specific python a like or some sort of higher level scripting language. The shell seems almost complete enough for now. I want to try and stick to the 'loads of little utilities & file servers' model rather than general purpose applications. While I'm wishing though when I first came to plan9 of course I wanted to bring my python hammer with me. Implementing a file server in a scripting language sounds groovy. In the end though I'm glad it wasn't there because it's making me learn the OS rather then live in python. Hopefully I'll eventually know enough about it to either add the functionality to python myself or simply not care. M From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 19:56:45 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 19:56:45 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 25766 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 20:05:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25762 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 20:05:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 20:05:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B048E199F7; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 07:05:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dumbass (unknown [207.137.146.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6EDD4199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 07:04:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by dumbass with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 04:04:17 -0700 From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jun 2001 11:04:17.0144 (UTC) FILETIME=[41D50780:01C0F266] Subject: [9fans] Your Daily Joke From Jay's Jokes! Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 04:04:16 -0700 Jay's Jokes -- http://jaysjokes.com/-- Presents: Jay 's Jokes Daily Joke *********************************************************** For more Adult Content Jokes, go to http://JaysJokes.com Please feel free to forward these jokes to friends, but please keep the headers intact so others can subscribe! Subcribe and unsubscribe information is located at the end of this email. The Daily Joke and JaysJokes.com are sponsored by Wiseguy Software (http://www.wiseguysoftware.com) *********************************************************** Rap Music This young medical student is having problems with his course. He's good at most things, but he's terrible at anatomy. So he decides to sneak down to the basement of the hospital and practice on one of the corpses in the mortuary. While busy studying a cadaver he's surprised to discover that the body has a cork stuffed up its bottom. Baffled, he pulls it out and, to his astonishment, music starts playing. "Livin' in a gangsta's paradise." The bewildered medical student stuffs the cork back in and runs upstairs to find a doctor. He then drags the doctor down to the mortuary. "Look," he says and pulls the cork out. "Been spendin' most our lives." The doctor is completely unimpressed. "So?" he asks. "Well, isn't that the most amazing thing you've ever seen?" exclaims the medical student. "Nah. Any arsehole can sing rap music." ************************************************************ To submit a joke for our Joke of the Day mailing goto http://www.JaysJokes.com/post-a-joke.asp. To subscribe to Jay's Jokes Daily Joke, go to http://jaysjokes.com/email.asp. To unsubscribe, go to http://jaysjokes.com/unsubscribe.asp From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 21:13:44 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 21:13:44 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 26622 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 21:22:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26618 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 21:22:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 21:22:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA9DC199F7; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 08:22:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cejchan.gli.cas.cz (cejchan.gli.cas.cz [147.231.139.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 478B8199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 08:21:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cej by cejchan.gli.cas.cz with local (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 159QpG-0006yd-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 14:29:46 +0200 Subject: Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here. To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: X-Mailer: TkMail 4.0beta9 In-Reply-To: From: pac Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 14:29:46 +0200 ix) it is modular x) believe me or not, I like it's UI (actually, originally I was attracted to Plan 9 by 9wm of Linux...but in those days Plan 9 was not free and open source) - it is so different and minimalistic, and I was impressed -- Peter A. Cejchan Dept. Paleobiology, Inst. Geology Acad. Sci., Rozvojova 135, Prague 6 CZ-16502 Czech Republic ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A plea: Please, consider your support to the Public Library of Science initiative at http://www.publiclibraryofscience.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 21:20:46 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 21:20:46 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 26703 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 21:29:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26699 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 21:29:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 21:29:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D74DB199F9; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 08:29:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BBE0C199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 08:27:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01617 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 14:27:53 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from copernicus.cs.utwente.nl by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.8.8+Sun/csrelay-Sol1.4/RB) id OAA27860; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 14:27:54 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost by copernicus.cs.utwente.nl (8.8.8+Sun/SMI-SVR4) id OAA00632; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 14:27:54 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200106111227.OAA00632@copernicus.cs.utwente.nl> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Jun 2001 14:29:46 +0200." References: From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 14:27:54 +0200 > x) believe me or not, I like it's UI (actually, originally I was attracted > to Plan 9 by 9wm of Linux...but in > those days Plan 9 was not free and open source) - it is so different and mini > malistic, and I was impressed Same here: sam -> reading about help, and being impressed -> wily -> acme, and of course 9term :-) (I still remember the day when I in 'automatic non-thinking editing mode' I used an editing chord in my mail program (exmh) - did not work, sigh ;-)) Axel. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 21:21:12 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 21:21:12 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 26715 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 21:29:54 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26711 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 21:29:54 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 21:29:54 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BAD55199FC; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 08:29:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (racine.noos.net [212.198.2.71]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 104EB199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 08:28:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 37826399 invoked by uid 0); 11 Jun 2001 12:28:55 -0000 Received: from s232.dhcp212-198-183.noos.fr (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by racine.noos.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 11 Jun 2001 12:28:55 -0000 Message-ID: <0ba901c0f271$f1f1dd40$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200106111013.MAA14426@boris.cd.chalmers.se> Subject: Re: [9fans] awk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 14:27:56 +0200 i even persuaded it to 'parse' mime as one company's 'rat squad' [les boeuf-carrotes] had to round up the odd scapegoat [t€te de turc]. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 21:34:43 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 21:34:43 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 26869 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 21:43:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26865 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 21:43:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 21:43:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F339A199F7; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 08:43:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cejchan.gli.cas.cz (cejchan.gli.cas.cz [147.231.139.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2196B199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 08:42:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cej by cejchan.gli.cas.cz with local (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 159R9c-0006zS-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 14:50:48 +0200 Subject: Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here. To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: X-Mailer: TkMail 4.0beta9 In-Reply-To: <200106111227.OAA00632@copernicus.cs.utwente.nl> From: pac Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 14:50:49 +0200 xi) Unicode xii) system-wide cut and paste -- Peter A. Cejchan Dept. Paleobiology, Inst. Geology Acad. Sci., Rozvojova 135, Prague 6 CZ-16502 Czech Republic ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A plea: Please, consider your support to the Public Library of Science initiative at http://www.publiclibraryofscience.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 22:27:44 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 22:27:44 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 27460 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 22:36:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27456 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 22:36:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 22:36:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 65ACC199F8; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:36:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailhost2.dircon.co.uk (mailhost2.dircon.co.uk [194.112.32.66]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB70D199F6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:35:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from starfruit.iw3d.co.uk (starfruit.iw3d.co.uk [195.157.148.202]) by mailhost2.dircon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA47953 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 14:35:29 +0100 (BST) Received: from coconut.iwks.multi.local ([10.79.1.54]) by starfruit.iw3d.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 159Rfh-0005Wf-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 14:23:57 +0100 From: Theo Honohan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: GL again (was Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.) In-Reply-To: <01061110104803.10892@borja.sarenet.es> References: <20010611051419.25CC4199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> <01061110104803.10892@borja.sarenet.es> X-Mailer: VM 6.89 under 21.1 (patch 13) "Crater Lake" XEmacs Lucid Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 14:39:47 +0100 On Monday 11 June, Borja Marcos wrote: > > In a real world network, the bandwidths can be as low as 33600 > bps (a pstn modem) and as high as a gigabit. Apart from the elegant > design, I think it can be the most interesting feature for many > people. Speaking of gigabit, and the idea of supporting distributed OpenGL, I just noticed some recent work from the Stanford "Mural" people, which describes a new OpenGL stream protocol, called WireGL. It's intended to be a portable and scalable replacement for GLX, with a view to cluster rendering. So, that might be interesting to look at, given that they've already done all the hard work... http://graphics.stanford.edu/software/wiregl/research.html From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 22:31:45 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 22:31:45 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 27507 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 22:40:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27503 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 22:40:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 22:40:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D2F04199FC; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:40:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from haddock.cd.chalmers.se (haddock.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4F6A3199E7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:39:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (boris.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.21]) by haddock.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA17435; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 15:39:39 +0200 (MET DST) From: Laura Creighton Received: (from lac@localhost) by boris.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3/8.8.7) id PAA16225; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 15:39:39 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200106111339.PAA16225@boris.cd.chalmers.se> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: lac@cd.chalmers.se Subject: [9fans] I just unsubscribed us all from Jay's Jokes Daily Joke. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 15:39:39 +0200 (MET DST) If you miss it go to http://jaysjokes.com Laura From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 23:15:46 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 23:15:46 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 27940 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 23:24:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27936 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 23:24:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 23:24:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9F3B8199FE; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:24:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailhost1.dircon.co.uk (mailhost1.dircon.co.uk [194.112.32.65]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 32298199F7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:23:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from starfruit.iw3d.co.uk (starfruit.iw3d.co.uk [195.157.148.202]) by mailhost1.dircon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA37429 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 15:23:50 +0100 (BST) Received: from coconut.iwks.multi.local ([10.79.1.54]) by starfruit.iw3d.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 159SQT-0005qe-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 15:12:17 +0100 From: Theo Honohan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Laura's theme (Long) (Was: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.) In-Reply-To: <20010611081451.A8737@cackle.proxima.alt.za> References: <20010611051419.25CC4199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> <20010611081451.A8737@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 15:28:07 +0100 On Monday 11 June, Lucio De Re wrote ("Laura's theme (Long) (Was: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.)"): > > Without excluding myself from the criticism, the Plan 9 culture is > inherently elitist, rather than evangelical. I'm about to embark on a > cross-host debugging session (Inferno, rather than Plan 9, I'm not > sure how successful I'm likely to be) and only when confronted by this > need, did I realise that Laura's question about impressing students > should have been answered by a cross-host task, the more convoluted, > the better. No one else has proposed such an idea, and yet the main > strength of the fileserver approach lies clearly in that quarter. Absolutely! Well said. I spent several futile hours at the weekend trying to articulate exactly that point. If the students have encountered the pseudo-network-transparency of X11 or NFS, they'll immediately appreciate the advantages of the Plan 9 approach. It's all about just presenting the three main design principles listed in the overview paper. Then, you show that the Plan 9 approach solves all of the same problems as X, ssh X-forwarding, NFS and VNC, in a much cleaner way. That should appeal to any CS student. Then you show how it goes way beyond that, allowing fine-grained cross-host sharing of resources. Russ's anecdote about Windows and ssh is a good example: http://lists.cse.psu.edu/archives/9fans/2000-October/007937.html Not everyone will immediately recognize the need for that kind of contortion, but people who have developed software across multiple machines, or have run their own small network of Linux boxes, will be sent into transports of delight. I'm less convinced that Acme is a good selling point; people are unlikely to see a new editor or IDE and think "Oh, I want to change editors!" Habits are hard to break, and editors are a matter of personal taste (as are mouse chords...) Theo From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 23:16:43 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 23:16:43 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 27960 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 23:25:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27956 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 23:25:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 23:25:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A54FB199FF; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:25:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CEB4A199FC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:24:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06951 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:24:04 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from copernicus.cs.utwente.nl by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.8.8+Sun/csrelay-Sol1.4/RB) id QAA16195; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:24:05 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost by copernicus.cs.utwente.nl (8.8.8+Sun/SMI-SVR4) id QAA02149; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:24:05 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200106111424.QAA02149@copernicus.cs.utwente.nl> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:24:05 +0200 The (X11 support) initmap code in drawterm and in (inferno's) emu seems to have a problem with the 24bit color visuals offered by our solaris 2.6 out-of-the-box (AFAIK) X server: drawterm-linux: cannot detect x server byte order emu: win-x11 can't convert 24bit colors For drawterm I worked around by prefering 16bit visual over 24bit in xinitscreen; for inferno I intend to do something similar. I don't see myself fixing initmap, but I'm perfectly willing to test someone elses fix(es). Axel. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 23:43:44 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 23:43:44 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 28276 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 23:52:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28272 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 23:52:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 23:52:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA586199FA; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:52:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from haddock.cd.chalmers.se (haddock.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1B6F3199F6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:51:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (boris.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.21]) by haddock.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA20835; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:51:07 +0200 (MET DST) From: Laura Creighton Received: (from lac@localhost) by boris.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3/8.8.7) id QAA17134; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:51:06 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200106111451.QAA17134@boris.cd.chalmers.se> To: sjking@bconnex.net Subject: Re: [9fans] old NEC Versa S/50 useful? Cc: lac@cd.chalmers.se, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:51:06 +0200 (MET DST) The largest problem we have in popularising Plan 9 is finding old enough hardware to run it on because it will not run on any of the new stuff. The reason that we have this problem is because the people in 1127 are so completely satisfied with their ability to do major amounts of real work with the anceint hardware they have got that they couldn't be bothered to go to the computer hardware store and buy something made in the past decade, _even though they are aware that people who want to run plan 9 cannot now because they can't find old enough hardware_. (Also because people like me haven't made a VM ware port yet because we are too damn busy with the rest of our lives, as usual.) I'd say _speed_ is not going to be a problem for you. While I am here. Thank you ever so much for so many hours of enjoyment. Laura From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 23:49:44 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 23:49:44 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 28333 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2001 23:58:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28329 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 23:58:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 23:58:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 37A49199FE; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:58:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C301D199F6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:57:18 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] old NEC Versa S/50 useful? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-pvjmxbooovrheyjdfsvvevfjfl" Message-Id: <20010611145718.C301D199F6@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:57:17 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-pvjmxbooovrheyjdfsvvevfjfl Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That's unfair and not even true. --upas-pvjmxbooovrheyjdfsvvevfjfl Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Jun 11 10:52:24 EDT 2001 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Mon Jun 11 10:52:23 EDT 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BC97E199F9; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:52:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from haddock.cd.chalmers.se (haddock.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1B6F3199F6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:51:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (boris.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.21]) by haddock.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA20835; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:51:07 +0200 (MET DST) From: Laura Creighton Received: (from lac@localhost) by boris.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3/8.8.7) id QAA17134; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:51:06 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200106111451.QAA17134@boris.cd.chalmers.se> To: sjking@bconnex.net Subject: Re: [9fans] old NEC Versa S/50 useful? Cc: lac@cd.chalmers.se, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:51:06 +0200 (MET DST) The largest problem we have in popularising Plan 9 is finding old enough hardware to run it on because it will not run on any of the new stuff. The reason that we have this problem is because the people in 1127 are so completely satisfied with their ability to do major amounts of real work with the anceint hardware they have got that they couldn't be bothered to go to the computer hardware store and buy something made in the past decade, _even though they are aware that people who want to run plan 9 cannot now because they can't find old enough hardware_. (Also because people like me haven't made a VM ware port yet because we are too damn busy with the rest of our lives, as usual.) I'd say _speed_ is not going to be a problem for you. While I am here. Thank you ever so much for so many hours of enjoyment. Laura --upas-pvjmxbooovrheyjdfsvvevfjfl-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 11 23:59:44 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 11 23:59:44 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 28427 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 00:08:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28423 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 00:08:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 00:08:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3BDAE199FA; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:08:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1EA95199F6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:07:46 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: sjking@bconnex.net, lac@cd.chalmers.se Subject: Re: [9fans] old NEC Versa S/50 useful? From: F.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010611150746.1EA95199F6@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:17:29 +0200 Plan 9 runs fine on brand new bitsies and brand new PCs; at least, I'm using Plan 9 on them. Of course there are devices with no Plan 9 driver, but that's a different issue. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 00:11:45 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 00:11:45 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 28541 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 00:20:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28537 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 00:20:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 00:20:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 000A4199FE; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:20:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7EA95199F6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:19:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24758 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:19:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id LAA28218; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:19:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200106111519.LAA28218@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <041601c0f10d$72dabaa0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> References: Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:19:58 -0400 (EDT) In article <041601c0f10d$72dabaa0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> you write: >i don't think i'd go so far to call it a science -- more like an art. Okay, this is getting way off topic for 9fans, but, let me ask this: at the real abstract, pure level, is science any different at all from art? I contend that they're one and the same. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 00:30:42 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 00:30:42 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 28720 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 00:39:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28716 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 00:39:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 00:39:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2F8FF199FA; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:39:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from haddock.cd.chalmers.se (haddock.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A3D84199F6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:38:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (boris.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.21]) by haddock.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA22978; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:38:22 +0200 (MET DST) From: Laura Creighton Received: (from lac@localhost) by boris.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3/8.8.7) id RAA17777; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:38:22 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200106111538.RAA17777@boris.cd.chalmers.se> To: cross@math.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science Cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, lac@cd.chalmers.se Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:38:22 +0200 (MET DST) >Dan Cross: >Okay, this is getting way off topic for 9fans, but, let me ask >this: at the real abstract, pure level, is science any different >at all from art? I contend that they're one and the same. Only if you do it right. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 00:38:43 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 00:38:43 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 28792 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 00:47:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28788 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 00:47:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 00:47:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4DBB4199FE; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:47:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E506A199F6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:46:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29665 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:46:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id LAA28418; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:46:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200106111546.LAA28418@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] old NEC Versa S/50 useful? Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <20010611145718.C301D199F6@mail.cse.psu.edu> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:46:46 -0400 (EDT) In article <20010611145718.C301D199F6@mail.cse.psu.edu> you write: >That's unfair and not even true. I agree that it's untrue; I've used Plan 9 on some pretty serious and pretty modern hardware. However, I *do* think that it's fair to say that there's a certain lack of device drivers which in a sense is fairly limiting, if for no other reason than unsupported hardware is, often so much more prevalent than supported. SCSI controllers are a good example; the lack of an Adaptec AIC7xxx driver is frustrating, particularly since those show up on a lot of motherboards. Similarly, video hardware support can be frustrating (though I think the recent addition of an nVidia driver has helped tremendously). I suppose the solution is for people (not necessarily 1127) to write more device drivers. :-) - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 01:03:46 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 01:03:46 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 29027 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 01:12:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29023 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 01:12:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 01:12:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B223119A05; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:12:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from haddock.cd.chalmers.se (haddock.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8C56B199FE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:11:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (boris.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.21]) by haddock.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA24359; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:10:57 +0200 (MET DST) From: Laura Creighton Received: (from lac@localhost) by boris.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3/8.8.7) id SAA18053; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:10:57 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200106111610.SAA18053@boris.cd.chalmers.se> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, prosotto@plan9.bell-labs.com Cc: lac@cd.chalmers.se Subject: [9fans] unfair? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:10:57 +0200 (MET DST) Huh? What are you unhappy about? I think that it is perfectly splendid that you don't have to race to the hardware store every year or so like the rest of us poor slobs because the software bloat is such we need more hardware constantly to be able to continue to do what we did yesterday before the libraries got so much bigger. I am trying to popularise plan 9 in part because I want to be able to not spend all my money on hardware as well. And, God knows, the people who think that all software has to be made by 1127 and not by other parties such as themselves need a kick. If not being able to run plan 9 doesn't do it for them, I have no idea what will ... I think it is a marvellous plan. But I am having serious problems here in Sweden finding hardware to run a new file server on. My hardware dealer, who loves me because I buy so much stuff from him to run linux on, just phoned. I could not get him to believe that I wanted older hardware than the stuff he was going to give me FOR FREE. Anders and I need to go to the used computer store to get something we can run. Maybe hardware is just so much easier to come by in the USA that you didn't notice that it is not so freely available other places. This is not your fault. Don't you know me well enough by now to know that I am not blaming you? When we get our new fileserver up, which will have to wait until after the European Union, which is having a major meeting in my town this week, goes home, I will fix this problem by doing a vmware port if I can get it to work unless somebody has already done it by then. In the mean time ... well 10 years is an exageration. I'm sorry for that. AND THE BITSY PORT IS WAY COOL. Forgiven? Laura From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 01:21:45 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 01:21:45 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 29187 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 01:30:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29183 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 01:30:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 01:30:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C25E8199FF; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:30:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from haddock.cd.chalmers.se (haddock.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 434AB199FF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:29:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (boris.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.21]) by haddock.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA25055; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:29:27 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (IDENT:eQFHYNTY2VDbQXmMLDMwCXBaKzmJJD/M@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by boris.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA18275; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:29:27 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200106111629.SAA18275@boris.cd.chalmers.se> To: Laura Creighton Cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com, lac@cd.chalmers.se In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:10:57 +0200." <200106111610.SAA18053@boris.cd.chalmers.se> From: Laura Creighton Subject: [9fans] Re: unfair? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:29:24 +0200 Hmm. on further reflection it may be that I am having a much worse time popularising plan 9 than others because Sweden is such a tidy place .... in which case I am even more sorry I did not choose different words. Laura From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 01:47:48 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 01:47:48 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 29372 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 01:56:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29368 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 01:56:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 01:56:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 97FFD199FF; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:56:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ducksworth.com (unknown [209.152.156.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 340CA199E7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:55:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (samd@localhost) by ducksworth.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5BGtTG67246 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:55:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sam@ducksworth.com) X-Authentication-Warning: lucifer.ducksworth.com: samd owned process doing -bs From: Sam Ducksworth X-X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <20010611145718.C301D199F6@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Wireless lan cards for the bitsy. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:55:29 -0700 (PDT) nemo and/or presotto, what wireless lan card(s) and base station(s) did you use with your bitsy setup? I searched the archives and there was a mention of the Lucent Wavelan card, which i think is now called the "ORiNOCO IEEE Wireless World PC Card". --sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 01:55:48 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 01:55:48 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 29469 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 02:04:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29465 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 02:04:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 02:04:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 49D7B19A02; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:04:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 78FD4199E7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:03:25 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: lac@cd.chalmers.se, 9fans@cse.psu.edu, prosotto@plan9.bell-labs.com, lac@cd.chalmers.se Subject: Re: [9fans] unfair? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010611170325.78FD4199E7@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:03:14 -0400 Not unhappy, just miffed that the staement missed the point. We port to machines because we need to use those machines, not because they are popular or readily available in other countries. The same is true for devices. Most of our machines (not including my 100 MHz 486) are pretty new. We buy about a machine a month usually to get access to faster CPU's or nicer laptops. When we find one that meets the need, we tend to stick with that line. For example, most of our laptops are IBM's because, even though we don't understand the soft modems, we love the keyboards and screens. However, about 100 new models appear every year from the major manufacturers; IBM, Compaq, Sony, Hitachi, and the various board houses. Each have their ideosyncracies that have to be ported to. We definitely don't have the budget or time to buy one of each and do the port. In fact, the company is broke and trying to get those of us that can to go on pension so that it can afford to pay the rest. Unfortunately, our needs in hardware don't match what is popular or most readily available. One of the reasons (though not the only one) we released Plan 9 was to get someone else to could cover what we can't. We're even worse off with devices. In general, we port to a new device only when we need to. Luckily we've slowly been getting stuff back from the outside and including it in ships. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 02:25:45 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 02:25:45 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 29700 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 02:34:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29696 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 02:34:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 02:34:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5658219A02; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:34:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D83FF199FA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:33:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18448 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:33:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id NAA29029; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:33:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200106111733.NAA29029@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Wireless lan cards for the bitsy. Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: References: <20010611145718.C301D199F6@mail.cse.psu.edu> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:33:30 -0400 (EDT) In article you write: >nemo and/or presotto, > >what wireless lan card(s) and base station(s) did you >use with your bitsy setup? I searched the archives and >there was a mention of the Lucent Wavelan card, which i >think is now called the "ORiNOCO IEEE Wireless World >PC Card". I used the ORiNOCO card in mine (even though the card still says Lucent Wavelan on it). It's the only supported wireless LAN card that I know of. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 02:30:44 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 02:30:44 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 29736 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 02:39:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29732 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 02:39:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 02:39:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 111E619A08; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:39:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3B427199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:38:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20711 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:38:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id NAA29045; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:38:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200106111738.NAA29045@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: unfair? Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <200106111629.SAA18275@boris.cd.chalmers.se> References: <200106111610.SAA18053@boris.cd.chalmers.se> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:38:21 -0400 (EDT) In article <200106111629.SAA18275@boris.cd.chalmers.se> you write: >Hmm. on further reflection it may be that I am having a much worse time >popularising plan 9 than others because Sweden is such a tidy place .... >in which case I am even more sorry I did not choose different words. Eh? I'm a little confused; what does the cleanliness of your country have to do with getting hardware to run Plan 9? ;-) - Dan C. (Hmm, the Swedes must hate New York....) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 04:19:46 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 04:19:46 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 30568 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 04:28:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30564 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 04:28:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 04:28:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 90E64199FF; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 15:28:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cosym.net (sdsl-64-7-3-116.dsl.nyc.megapath.net [64.7.3.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E1C5B199E7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 15:27:11 -0400 (EDT) From: anothy@cosym.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20010611192711.E1C5B199E7@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] ssl? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 15:27:09 -0400 i'd like to use imap over ssl. /bin/service.auth/tcp993 seems to be designed to let me do this, using either tlssrv or aux/ssls. only one issue remains: neither of those programs exist, in source or binary form. this is, of cource, in addition to the less serious problem of /usr/sean not existing on my system ☺. were tlssrv and/or aux/ssls inadvertantly left out of the dist, or am i missing something, or what? the pass-through model looks very nice, much better than the 'imap4d -s' (or whatever) i was expecting. using lots of little tools to build it should have been the obvious thing for plan 9 to do! -α. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 04:30:45 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 04:30:45 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 30708 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 04:39:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30704 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 04:39:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 04:39:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8887419A06; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 15:39:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id ED513199E7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 15:38:09 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Wireless lan cards for the bitsy. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010611193809.ED513199E7@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 15:38:07 -0400 We've been using an Orinoco Gold card. It still identifies itself as a WaveLAN. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 05:48:47 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 05:48:47 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 31213 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 05:57:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31209 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 05:57:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 05:57:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EC6E619A08; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:57:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ducksworth.com (unknown [209.152.156.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7FF7B199FA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:56:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (samd@localhost) by ducksworth.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5BKu4G67902 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:56:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sam@ducksworth.com) X-Authentication-Warning: lucifer.ducksworth.com: samd owned process doing -bs From: Sam Ducksworth X-X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Wireless lan cards for the bitsy. In-Reply-To: <200106111733.NAA29029@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:56:04 -0700 (PDT) On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Dan Cross wrote: > I used the ORiNOCO card in mine (even though the card still says > Lucent Wavelan on it). It's the only supported wireless LAN card > that I know of what are you using for your gateway? (i.e. ORiNOCO Residential Gateway RG1000 ) > > - Dan C. > > --sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 05:49:43 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 05:49:43 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 31226 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 05:58:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31222 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 05:58:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 05:58:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8648A19A09; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:58:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ducksworth.com (unknown [209.152.156.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BC9B0199FA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:57:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (samd@localhost) by ducksworth.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5BKvGY67906 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:57:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sam@ducksworth.com) X-Authentication-Warning: lucifer.ducksworth.com: samd owned process doing -bs From: Sam Ducksworth X-X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Wireless lan cards for the bitsy. In-Reply-To: <20010611193809.ED513199E7@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:57:16 -0700 (PDT) thanks On Mon, 11 Jun 2001 presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > We've been using an Orinoco Gold card. It still identifies > itself as a WaveLAN. > --sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 05:59:44 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 05:59:44 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 31301 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 06:08:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31297 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 06:08:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 06:08:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8A7BD19A0A; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:08:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 21E73199FA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:07:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [9fans] unfair? From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010611210755.21E73199FA@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:07:52 -0400 Laura Creighton : >But I am having serious problems here in Sweden finding hardware to run >a new file server on. My hardware dealer, who loves me because I buy so >much stuff from him to run linux on, just phoned. I could not get him >to believe that I wanted older hardware than the stuff he was going to >give me FOR FREE. Anders and I need to go to the used computer store >to get something we can run. Maybe hardware is just so much easier to >come by in the USA that you didn't notice that it is not so freely >available other places. I'd like some details on that. Other than the Adaptec story which we've gone over many times, what else is a problem? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 06:11:46 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 06:11:46 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 31380 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 06:20:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31376 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 06:20:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 06:20:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 567ED19A08; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:20:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (racine.noos.net [212.198.2.71]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A0FD7199FA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:19:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 209649 invoked by uid 0); 11 Jun 2001 21:19:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.71 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 11 Jun 2001 21:19:54 -0000 Message-ID: <0c8e01c0f2bc$1f32a4c0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010611051419.25CC4199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu><20010611081451.A8737@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] Laura's theme (Long) (Was: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 23:18:55 +0200 > If the students have encountered the pseudo-network-transparency of X11 > or NFS, they'll immediately appreciate the advantages of the Plan 9 > approach. as i recall, the returning NFS guru's from Sun (have they served an TM injunction on the owner of that star yet?), when i was working for _the instruction set_, set about to teach us about it, in an internal course. i must have been 23 at the time and as soon as i heard UDP mentioned i asked questions along the lines of 'are they mad'? i was told not to worry -- hah, hah. real worry set in when they asked me to port the kernel in 7 weeks (16 weeks being the current VAX -> 68020 port speed of the 2.0 release and the '20 was far from stable -- all sorts of glue to get it to take its faults/lumps correctly). well it didn't take too long, once i realised that it was just a in-line diff-ing of similar sources driven by someone who knew both kernels, the odd machine dependent glop and byte order problem, followed by a good thrashing to death against a Sun to see if it worked -- it didn't. all the world's a vax so some of XDR was just hosed. fix that, thrash it, play chess -- we're _ahead_ of schedule. i think this is the 'storm trooper' school of coding. maybe 'starship trooper' school if you're a yes fan: shining, flying, purple wolfhound show me where you are much like those XDR bugs. but the line is from 'yours is no disgrace'. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 06:47:45 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 06:47:45 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 31617 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 06:56:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31613 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 06:56:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 06:56:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 215BE199FE; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:56:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (descartes.noos.net [212.198.2.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 89EDC199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:55:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 262254 invoked by uid 0); 11 Jun 2001 21:48:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.74 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 11 Jun 2001 21:48:34 -0000 Message-ID: <0cbd01c0f2c0$209433c0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200106111519.LAA28218@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 23:43:45 +0200 From: "Dan Cross" > Okay, this is getting way off topic for 9fans, but, let me ask > this: at the real abstract, pure level, is science any different > at all from art? I contend that they're one and the same. nonsense. physics is a science. i can predict things with it. does computer science predict anything for me? i'll give you that it does have an axiom that states: you will be plagued by bugs in any development effort but that doesn't really predict anything in anything that vaguely approaches a _law_ of physics -- pick one. eg. the prohibition of speeds greater than the of speed of light. comp sci is more like an engineering discipline with very few fundamentals. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 06:48:44 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 06:48:44 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 31625 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 06:57:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31621 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 06:57:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 06:57:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CF2E219A08; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:57:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (claudel.noos.net [212.198.2.83]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 39636199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:56:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 332559 invoked by uid 0); 11 Jun 2001 21:51:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.83 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 11 Jun 2001 21:51:02 -0000 Message-ID: <0cc301c0f2c0$78949560$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200106111519.LAA28218@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 23:43:45 +0200 From: "Dan Cross" > Okay, this is getting way off topic for 9fans, but, let me ask > this: at the real abstract, pure level, is science any different > at all from art? I contend that they're one and the same. nonsense. physics is a science. i can predict things with it. does computer science predict anything for me? i'll give you that it does have an axiom that states: you will be plagued by bugs in any development effort but that doesn't really predict anything in anything that vaguely approaches a _law_ of physics -- pick one. eg. the prohibition of speeds greater than the of speed of light. comp sci is more like an engineering discipline with very few fundamentals. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 06:49:14 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 06:49:14 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 31640 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 06:57:57 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31636 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 06:57:56 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 06:57:56 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7AA4419A09; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:57:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (claudel.noos.net [212.198.2.83]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 90A37199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:56:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 342232 invoked by uid 0); 11 Jun 2001 21:51:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.83 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 11 Jun 2001 21:51:06 -0000 Message-ID: <0cc401c0f2c0$7ae710e0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200106111546.LAA28418@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] old NEC Versa S/50 useful? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 23:47:35 +0200 > I suppose the solution is for people (not necessarily 1127) to write > more device drivers. :-) well this is sort of one of microsoft's advantages. it has an army of kids (and enough money to buy the specs) to write flakey drivers for about any piece of braindamaged hardware that pops up. it is also one of it's great disadvantages, 'cos what they produce is trash. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 06:50:06 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 06:50:06 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 31649 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 06:58:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31645 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 06:58:48 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 06:58:48 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5B78F19A0C; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:57:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (aragon.noos.net [212.198.2.75]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8EE8419A04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:56:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 595420 invoked by uid 0); 11 Jun 2001 21:31:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.75 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 11 Jun 2001 21:31:21 -0000 Message-ID: <0cab01c0f2bd$b89ef5e0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010611150746.1EA95199F6@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] old NEC Versa S/50 useful? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 23:30:22 +0200 From: "F.J.Ballesteros" > Plan 9 runs fine on brand new bitsies and brand new PCs; > at least, I'm using Plan 9 on them. Of course there are > devices with no Plan 9 driver, but that's a different issue. hence, it doesn't run on all brand new pc's. try USB floppy based PCs for hours of fun. try the sony vaios. those things are weird. very cool, but weird. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 06:51:43 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 06:51:43 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 31676 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 07:00:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31672 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 07:00:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 07:00:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EE1AA19A04; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:58:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (aragon.noos.net [212.198.2.75]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B034A199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:57:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 581831 invoked by uid 0); 11 Jun 2001 21:44:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.75 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 11 Jun 2001 21:44:45 -0000 Message-ID: <0cb501c0f2bf$97cacea0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200106111519.LAA28218@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 23:43:45 +0200 From: "Dan Cross" > Okay, this is getting way off topic for 9fans, but, let me ask > this: at the real abstract, pure level, is science any different > at all from art? I contend that they're one and the same. nonsense. physics is a science. i can predict things with it. does computer science predict anything for me? i'll give you that it does have an axiom that states: you will be plagued by bugs in any development effort but that doesn't really predict anything in anything that vaguely approaches a _law_ of physics -- pick one. eg. the prohibition of speeds greater than the of speed of light. comp sci is more like an engineering discipline with very few fundamentals. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 06:52:52 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 06:52:52 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 31696 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 07:01:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31692 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 07:01:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 07:01:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 167AD19A0E; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:00:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (lafontaine.noos.net [212.198.2.72]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 57B2C199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:59:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 262076 invoked by uid 0); 11 Jun 2001 21:49:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.72 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 11 Jun 2001 21:49:48 -0000 Message-ID: <0cc201c0f2c0$4c6a6e60$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200106111519.LAA28218@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 23:43:45 +0200 From: "Dan Cross" > Okay, this is getting way off topic for 9fans, but, let me ask > this: at the real abstract, pure level, is science any different > at all from art? I contend that they're one and the same. nonsense. physics is a science. i can predict things with it. does computer science predict anything for me? i'll give you that it does have an axiom that states: you will be plagued by bugs in any development effort but that doesn't really predict anything in anything that vaguely approaches a _law_ of physics -- pick one. eg. the prohibition of speeds greater than the of speed of light. comp sci is more like an engineering discipline with very few fundamentals. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 06:55:47 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 06:55:47 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 31715 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 07:04:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31711 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 07:04:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 07:04:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 40AC219A11; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:04:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pivsbh1.ms.com (pivsbh1-x0.ms.com [199.89.64.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 97CBE199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:03:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pivsbh1-idmz.ms.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pivsbh1.ms.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 1CA5720230 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:03:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sasmh4.ms.com (unknown [144.14.193.5]) by pivsbh1-idmz.ms.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3DBE201E6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:03:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from spirit (spirit.morgan.com [144.14.15.145]) by sasmh4.ms.com (8.8.5/imap+ldap v2.4) with ESMTP id SAA21476 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:03:27 -0400 (EDT) From: "Paul O'Donnell" X-Sender: pod@spirit To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science In-Reply-To: <0cbd01c0f2c0$209433c0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:03:26 -0400 (EDT) On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Boyd Roberts wrote: > nonsense. physics is a science. i can predict things with it. > > does computer science predict anything for me? i'll give you that > it does have an axiom that states: > > you will be plagued by bugs in any development effort > > but that doesn't really predict anything in anything that vaguely > approaches a _law_ of physics -- pick one. eg. the prohibition > of speeds greater than the of speed of light. how about not being able to sort a list at better than n log n? > comp sci is more like an engineering discipline with very few > fundamentals. it has both. proving things about algorithms is science. writing programs is engineering From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 07:03:45 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 07:03:45 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 31820 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 07:12:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31816 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 07:12:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 07:12:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B82F19A13; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:12:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (camus.noos.net [212.198.2.70]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 36F72199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:11:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 315491 invoked by uid 0); 11 Jun 2001 22:11:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.70 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 11 Jun 2001 22:11:24 -0000 Message-ID: <0cc801c0f2c3$516ff490$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200106111610.SAA18053@boris.cd.chalmers.se> Subject: Re: [9fans] unfair? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 00:10:26 +0200 > Maybe hardware is just so much easier to > come by in the USA that you didn't notice that it is not so freely > available other places. it is. here [france] it's a joke. getting a broken piece of hardware fixed/replaced is a waste of time because it will not happen in any reasonable time. try to buy something? it's the same deal. the [la] FNAC, a large national chain of music/books/hardware/software/etc, has all sorts of interesting things you might like to buy, but do they have any stock? stock? did some idiot say stock? why would you keep that? they have demo stuff on the shelves but not a single one of them in stock. i could probably walk down 5th av and be stoned to death by plan 9 supported PCMCIA ethernet cards. should i try to buy one here it would turn into a holy grail (in the full film sense of the term). not that i want to be the one to have cast the first 'plan 9 supported PCMCIA ethernet card' at 1127. i'm just trying to say it's different elsewhere. i'd love to be in a position where i could buy just about any piece of random hardware that was available. some of us just aren't. and some of us can't afford to when it's 2 or more times the US price. buddy, can you spare an H1-B? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 07:19:44 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 07:19:44 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 31915 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 07:28:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31911 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 07:28:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 07:28:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 15B45199FE; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:28:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (mta03-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.43]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AA9E9199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:27:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010611222717.ECAC283.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 23:27:17 +0100 Message-ID: <004d01c0f2c5$8e394190$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200106111610.SAA18053@boris.cd.chalmers.se> <0cc801c0f2c3$516ff490$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> Subject: Re: [9fans] unfair? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 23:26:26 +0100 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Boyd Roberts" > > Maybe hardware is just so much easier to > > come by in the USA that you didn't notice that it is not so freely > > available other places. > > it is. here [france] it's a joke. getting a broken piece of > hardware fixed/replaced is a waste of time because it will not > happen in any reasonable time. Maybe you could get together with the tobacco & wine smugglers so their mini-buses are not empty on the way into France but are packed with enticing PC gear from Tottenham Court Rd! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 07:20:42 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 07:20:42 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 31924 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 07:29:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31920 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 07:29:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 07:29:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D260219A06; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:29:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from irixbum.ca (h24-66-237-254.ss.shawcable.net [24.66.237.254]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C66F3199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:28:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aam396@localhost) by irixbum.ca (SGI-8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07600 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:26:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: irixbum.ca: aam396 owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski X-Sender: aam396@irixbum.ca To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science In-Reply-To: <0cbd01c0f2c0$209433c0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:26:05 -0700 On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Boyd Roberts wrote: > nonsense. physics is a science. i can predict things with it. > the uncertainty principle in quantum mechanics guarantees that there is some space left for art in physics :) andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 07:21:45 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 07:21:45 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 31945 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 07:30:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31941 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 07:30:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 07:30:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8D09E19A09; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:30:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (racine.noos.net [212.198.2.71]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 24E1A199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:29:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 258404 invoked by uid 0); 11 Jun 2001 22:29:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.71 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 11 Jun 2001 22:29:41 -0000 Message-ID: <0cf201c0f2c5$dee2f9b0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 00:28:42 +0200 From: "Paul O'Donnell" > how about not being able to sort a list at better than n log n? concurr, but it's a trivial problem. > it has both. proving things about algorithms is science. > writing programs is engineering pity is that the things we can prove are either trivial or so difficult that we prove we don't or cannot have solutions for. very much a 'science' in its infancy. then again, knowing that the problem is difficult and just how difficult is useful in crypto. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 07:30:43 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 07:30:43 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 32018 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 07:39:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32014 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 07:39:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 07:39:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6DC5B19A0C; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:39:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (descartes.noos.net [212.198.2.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 24829199F9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:38:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 296966 invoked by uid 0); 11 Jun 2001 22:38:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.74 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 11 Jun 2001 22:38:29 -0000 Message-ID: <0cfc01c0f2c7$19a26260$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200106111610.SAA18053@boris.cd.chalmers.se> <0cc801c0f2c3$516ff490$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> <004d01c0f2c5$8e394190$6401a8c0@freeze2k> Subject: Re: [9fans] unfair? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 00:37:20 +0200 > PC gear from Tottenham Court Rd! those rip-off merchants? nah. as it turns out i'll be in london next week, but i think i'll be checking out the southern extension of said rd; charing cross rd -- london's 'guitar city'. not that i'll be buying anything. well that's what i said last time, until i got my hands on this les paul standard at andy's... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 07:34:44 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 07:34:44 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 32074 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 07:43:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32070 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 07:43:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 07:43:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 201FB19A0E; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:43:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gsyc.escet.urjc.es (gsyc.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.45]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 74A04199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:42:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nido.hilbert.space (root@62-37-147-44.dialup.uni2.es [62.37.147.44]) by gsyc.escet.urjc.es (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id AAA32193 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 00:42:41 +0200 X-Authentication-Warning: gsyc.escet.urjc.es: Host root@62-37-147-44.dialup.uni2.es [62.37.147.44] claimed to be nido.hilbert.space Received: (from gorka@localhost) by nido.hilbert.space (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id AAA00865; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 00:43:15 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15141.18819.7956.967025@nido.hilbert.space> From: paurea@dei.inf.uc3m.es To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science In-Reply-To: <0cb501c0f2bf$97cacea0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA>:Boyd Roberts's message of 23:43:45 Monday,11 June 2001 References: <200106111519.LAA28218@augusta.math.psu.edu> <0cb501c0f2bf$97cacea0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> X-Mailer: VM 6.85 under Emacs 20.7.2 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 00:43:14 +0200 Boyd Roberts writes: > From: "Boyd Roberts" > Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science > Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 23:43:45 +0200 > > From: "Dan Cross" > > Okay, this is getting way off topic for 9fans, but, let me ask > > this: at the real abstract, pure level, is science any different > > at all from art? I contend that they're one and the same. > > nonsense. physics is a science. i can predict things with it. > > does computer science predict anything for me? i'll give you that > it does have an axiom that states: > > you will be plagued by bugs in any development effort > > but that doesn't really predict anything in anything that vaguely > approaches a _law_ of physics -- pick one. eg. the prohibition > of speeds greater than the of speed of light. > > comp sci is more like an engineering discipline with very few > fundamentals. €Would you say Math is a science?. Its theoretical foundations are based on turing machines... (I believe all physics are written in math simbols...) -- Saludos, Gorka "Curiosity sKilled the cat" -- /"\ \ / ascii ribbon campaign - against html mail X - against ms attachments / \ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 08:30:44 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 08:30:44 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 32471 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 08:39:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32467 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 08:39:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 08:39:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ECF6919A04; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 19:39:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (einstein.ssz.com [204.96.2.99]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 89542199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 19:38:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA22517 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:43:15 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:43:15 -0500 (CDT) On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Boyd Roberts wrote: > > > nonsense. physics is a science. i can predict things with it. > > > > the uncertainty principle in quantum mechanics guarantees that there is some > space left for art in physics :) Ignorance is not art. But I suspect that Godel's Incompleteness Theorem is a bigger factor. Computer Science is like Physics, applied mathematics to observable phenomenon (where the 'science' comes from). When you 'apply' either you get a 'technology'. So consider them 'applied theory'. 'Engineering' is applying such an applied theory to real world problems, applied applied theory. -- ____________________________________________________________________ "...where annual election ends, tyranny begins;" Thomas Jefferson & Samuel Adams The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 09:01:43 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 09:01:43 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 534 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 09:10:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 530 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 09:10:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 09:10:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1161019A05; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 20:10:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sweety.bhp.com.au (sweety.bhp.com.au [192.83.224.132]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 54BE6199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 20:09:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gossamer.itmel.bhp.com.au (mel01.bhp.com.au [192.83.224.17]) by sweety.bhp.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07034 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:09:28 +1000 (EST) Received: from nc.itntl.bhp.com.au (nc.itntl.bhp.com.au [134.18.16.178]) by gossamer.itmel.bhp.com.au (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA10397 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:09:26 +1000 (EST) Received: from samarium.itntl.bhp.com.au (samarium.itntl.bhp.com.au [134.18.16.62]) by nc.itntl.bhp.com.au (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA01028 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:09:22 +1000 (EST) Received: from samarium.itntl.bhp.com.au (Sm@localhost) by samarium.itntl.bhp.com.au (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f5C09Kt22653 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:09:21 +1000 Message-Id: <200106120009.f5C09Kt22653@samarium.itntl.bhp.com.au> X-Authentication-Warning: samarium.itntl.bhp.com.au: Sm owned process doing -bs To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 09 Jun 2001 11:50:08 MST." From: Scott Merrilees Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:09:20 +1000 >unfortunately dan cross is very right in his analysis -- most of the >students care not for algorithmics. the three classes i listed are the most >hated ones (together with the "Systems Programming and Introduction to >Operating Systems", the UNIX class) simply because they actually make the >students think... > >there are the occasional bad apples who explore the field, write code >and are interested in the 'science' part of 'computer science'.. the others >are happy to get their 3 year degrees and drone off to the job market. > >andrey Then you have the occasional CS dept / Computer Centre with a computer usage policy that probihits all use of the univerity computer systems except for specific course work. Sm From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 09:09:44 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 09:09:44 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 762 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 09:18:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 758 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 09:18:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 09:18:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4F0AF19A08; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 20:18:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (lafontaine.noos.net [212.198.2.72]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 022D8199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 20:17:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 386840 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jun 2001 00:17:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.72 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 12 Jun 2001 00:17:52 -0000 Message-ID: <0d6501c0f2d4$fc33b6d0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200106120009.f5C09Kt22653@samarium.itntl.bhp.com.au> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 02:16:53 +0200 > Then you have the occasional CS dept / Computer Centre with a computer > usage policy that probihits all use of the univerity computer systems > except for specific course work. yeah, but some of us got around that and the more you got around it the more you learned -- the useful stuff. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 09:28:44 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 09:28:44 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 1329 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 09:37:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1324 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 09:37:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 09:37:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B96DF19A05; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 20:37:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3980A199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 20:36:10 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer scienscience MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010612003610.3980A199E9@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 20:36:08 -0400 Granted that I haven't done circuit design in years, but, modulo a few fires here and there, it didn't seem that much different than programming. There were little tricks like using resistance ratios to keep the gain on transistor circuits less temperature dependent, general rules on stage coupling to keep transients in one part of a circuit, ... There were rules of thumb, absolute no-no's, etc. For that matter, I spent a good chunk of my adolescent life laying bricks and things weren't much different there except that I felt a lot more tired a the end of the day. Both science and engineering involve solving problems with the tools at hand. Both can be predictive. With a finite element analysis of a bridge, I can say pretty definitively what loads it will take. The main descriminator is that when the thinking involves figuring out problems set to us by the nature of the universe, it tends to be called a science. When we are thinking about building something, it's called engineering. The line is pretty fuzzy unless you are firmly embedded in one camp or the other. Mathematics circles both camps. Mathematics is the tool used to solve most engineering and science problems. I like the OED's definition here: (a) in a strict sense, to the abstract science which investigates deductively the conclusions implicit in the elementary conceptions of spatial and numerical relations, and which includes as its main divisions geometry, arithmetic, and algebra; and (b) in a wider sense, so as to include those branches of physical or other research which consist in the application of this abstract science to concrete data. When the word is used in its wider sense, the abstract science is distinguished as pure mathematics, and its concrete applications (e.g. in astronomy, various branches of physics, the theory of probabilities) as applied or mixed mathematics. Some of the best physicists and computer scientists I've met called themselves mathematicians. To a certain extent, a scientist or an engineer is a mathematicion with boundary conditions. Computer science/engineering/whatever is unique in that the boundary conditions seem to change a bit faster than in the other disciplines (though biology may be passing us). Most disciplines only change due to a new concept or discovery coming along. CS has that too; caches, virtual memory, recursion, type theory, quantum computing (if it happens), ... However, we have a constant churn of our design rules and engineering points caused by Moore's law and its offshoots. We're working in a discipline where everything changes exponentially in time, and a small time constant at that. Today's rules are usually out the window next year. So bringing this back to education... This means that we have a hard time imparting anything from generation to generation that can really be useful except for how to reason about problems. The only three ways I know of doing this are (1) studying in depth programs that you believe are elegantly done, i.e., easily understood, built with the minimum effort to do the job, and extensible. (2) guiding them through programming assignments to do the same, showing them a better way if they didn't find it themselves. (3) get a degree in another discipline so they at least have a balanced viewpoint. This is in addition to the fundamental concepts of programming and design. However, there are countless books to teach them that, they could stay home and read them instead of going to class if that is all they'ld walk away with. P.S. You can tell I'm avoiding real work, can't you. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 09:32:44 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 09:32:44 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 1466 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 09:41:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1462 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 09:41:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 09:41:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3484D19A09; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 20:41:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 501FD199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 20:40:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010612004041.LNXD290.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 01:40:41 +0100 Message-ID: <00bb01c0f2d8$304f6060$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag and I can't get out Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 01:39:49 +0100 Well it's not going too well. I got this far but of course (I can say that now) the `{..} doesn't return until $netdir/data sends an eof and then prints each line ifs=' ' for (k in `{ cat $netdir/data }) { echo $k } so how do i read a line at a time before `{..} closes it's stdout? once I've cracked that it's just about finished M From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 09:34:43 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 09:34:43 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 1508 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 09:43:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1504 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 09:43:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 09:43:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 66DC819A0C; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 20:43:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sweety.bhp.com.au (sweety.bhp.com.au [192.83.224.132]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0ECC0199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 20:42:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gossamer.itmel.bhp.com.au (mel01.bhp.com.au [192.83.224.17]) by sweety.bhp.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14933 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:42:14 +1000 (EST) Received: from nc.itntl.bhp.com.au (nc.itntl.bhp.com.au [134.18.16.178]) by gossamer.itmel.bhp.com.au (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA18609 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:42:12 +1000 (EST) Received: from samarium.itntl.bhp.com.au (samarium.itntl.bhp.com.au [134.18.16.62]) by nc.itntl.bhp.com.au (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA02004 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:42:10 +1000 (EST) Received: from samarium.itntl.bhp.com.au (Sm@localhost) by samarium.itntl.bhp.com.au (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f5C0gAP22758 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:42:10 +1000 Message-Id: <200106120042.f5C0gAP22758@samarium.itntl.bhp.com.au> X-Authentication-Warning: samarium.itntl.bhp.com.au: Sm owned process doing -bs To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 12 Jun 2001 02:16:53 +0200." <0d6501c0f2d4$fc33b6d0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: Scott Merrilees Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:42:10 +1000 >> Then you have the occasional CS dept / Computer Centre with a computer >> usage policy that probihits all use of the univerity computer systems >> except for specific course work. >boyd: >yeah, but some of us got around that and the more you got around >it the more you learned -- the useful stuff. Very true, but the above CS attitude encourages the production of drones, while discouraging and even punishing those with the audacity to try and do some self directed learning. Sm From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 09:40:44 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 09:40:44 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 1643 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 09:49:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1639 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 09:49:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 09:49:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1973119A0D; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 20:49:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (claudel.noos.net [212.198.2.83]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2B0C0199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 20:48:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 509225 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jun 2001 00:48:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.83 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 12 Jun 2001 00:48:43 -0000 Message-ID: <0dc601c0f2d9$4b0508a0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010612003610.3980A199E9@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer scienscience MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 02:47:44 +0200 > P.S. You can tell I'm avoiding real work, can't you. maybe it just means you've got a gnarly bug :-) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 09:47:43 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 09:47:43 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 1783 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 09:56:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1779 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 09:56:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 09:56:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 35C5A19A0E; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 20:56:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [130.203.12.17] (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8CCDE199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 20:55:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 28458 invoked by uid 991); 12 Jun 2001 00:55:38 -0000 Message-ID: <20010612005538.28456.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag and I can't get out In-Reply-To: Message from "Matt" of "Tue, 12 Jun 2001 01:39:49 BST." <00bb01c0f2d8$304f6060$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 20:55:38 -0400 | I got this far but of course (I can say that now) | the `{..} doesn't return until $netdir/data sends an eof | and then prints each line Instead of "for cat", don't you want "while read"? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 09:53:45 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 09:53:45 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 1925 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 10:02:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1921 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 10:02:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 10:02:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A5DFD19A0F; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:02:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (claudel.noos.net [212.198.2.83]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6500B199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:01:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 518539 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jun 2001 01:01:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.83 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 12 Jun 2001 01:01:30 -0000 Message-ID: <0dcc01c0f2db$14720430$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <00bb01c0f2d8$304f6060$6401a8c0@freeze2k> Subject: Re: [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag and I can't get out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 03:00:31 +0200 > I got this far but of course (I can say that now) > the `{..} doesn't return until $netdir/data sends an eof > and then prints each line well, obviously. it's a file isn't it? > so how do i read a line at a time before `{..} closes it's stdout? write some C program that that reads _unbuffered_ characters and spits them until it sees 'end of line' (whatever that may be). you should buffer the output, but _not_ the input. can't be more than 20 lines of code. btw: i hope you're dealing with 8 bit chars 'cos latin-1 will really screw up utf encoded streams that the rest of the system expects. years ago i wrote (on ultrix) riso [rune to iso-latin-1] and isor (pronounced eye-sore) filters so that the unix sam could deal with the few french docs i had to deal with. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 10:01:44 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 10:01:44 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 2078 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 10:10:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2074 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 10:10:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 10:10:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A383419A0B; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:10:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (aragon.noos.net [212.198.2.75]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 80026199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:09:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 808248 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jun 2001 01:09:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.75 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 12 Jun 2001 01:09:04 -0000 Message-ID: <0dd201c0f2dc$231ca2a0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200106120042.f5C0gAP22758@samarium.itntl.bhp.com.au> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 03:08:05 +0200 > Very true, but the above CS attitude encourages the production of > drones, while discouraging and even punishing those with the audacity > to try and do some self directed learning. i don't disagree, but when you had 2000 students and one 11/780 for all of them (even with share/hacks giving you a maximum of 128 simultaneous student logins) i guess something had to be done. more resources would have been nice. on the other hand, it was always a nice clause to use on password crackers and others nuisances. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 10:05:45 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 10:05:45 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 2159 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 10:14:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2155 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 10:14:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 10:14:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0286519A10; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:14:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (claudel.noos.net [212.198.2.83]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C870A199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:13:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 515316 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jun 2001 01:13:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.83 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 12 Jun 2001 01:13:29 -0000 Message-ID: <0ddc01c0f2dc$c0bca7d0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010612005538.28456.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag and I can't get out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 03:12:29 +0200 > Instead of "for cat", don't you want "while read"? well he does, but rc doesn't have 'read'. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 10:13:44 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 10:13:44 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 2355 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 10:22:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2351 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 10:22:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 10:22:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8B57819A08; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:22:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gen.relia.net (gen.relia.net [207.173.156.63]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B51E3199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:21:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from deuce.daves.net (root@deuce.daves.net [199.104.100.2]) by gen.relia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20301; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 19:21:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (daveb@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by deuce.daves.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA27481; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 19:23:14 -0600 Message-Id: <20010611.192314.74724354.daveb@daves.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, sam@ducksworth.com Subject: Re: [9fans] Wireless lan cards for the bitsy. From: "David P. Boswell" In-Reply-To: References: <200106111733.NAA29029@augusta.math.psu.edu> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.95b43 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 19:23:14 -0600 (MDT) I am using a D-Link DWL-1000AP. $250 at the local store. Any 802.11B access point should work fine. From: Sam Ducksworth Subject: Re: [9fans] Wireless lan cards for the bitsy. Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:56:04 -0700 (PDT) > On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Dan Cross wrote: > > > I used the ORiNOCO card in mine (even though the card still says > > Lucent Wavelan on it). It's the only supported wireless LAN card > > that I know of > > what are you using for your gateway? (i.e. ORiNOCO Residential > Gateway RG1000 ) > > > > > - Dan C. > > > > > > --sam > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 10:14:44 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 10:14:44 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 2384 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 10:23:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2380 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 10:23:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 10:23:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 48F1D19A11; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:23:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 57F4919A0A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:22:13 -0400 (EDT) From: brucee@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010612012213.57F4919A0A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] NFS? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:22:11 -0400 was that you boyd? georgio and caroline could dream up a better protocol. certainly your's is no disgrace. "shining, flying, purple wolfhound"? i said we'll see. don't respond pip. brucee From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 10:22:45 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 10:22:45 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 2638 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 10:31:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2634 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 10:31:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 10:31:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 33D9619A13; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:31:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.Sun.COM (mercury.Sun.COM [192.9.25.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C8898199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:30:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from engmail2.Eng.Sun.COM ([129.146.1.25]) by mercury.Sun.COM (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18551 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:30:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from moe (silveroak.Eng.Sun.COM [129.146.124.75]) by engmail2.Eng.Sun.COM (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3/ENSMAIL,v2.1p1) with ESMTP id SAA20398 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:30:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200106120130.SAA20398@engmail2.Eng.Sun.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.388) From: Jonathan Sergent To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v388) In-Reply-To: <0dcc01c0f2db$14720430$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> Subject: Re: [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag and I can't get out Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:30:09 -0700 On Monday, June 11, 2001, at 06:00 PM, Boyd Roberts wrote: > write some C program that that reads _unbuffered_ characters > and spits them until it sees 'end of line' (whatever that may be). > you should buffer the output, but _not_ the input. You could just read the manual and use /bin/read, instead of rewriting it. So you get { while () { line=`{read} echo line: $line } } < filename Somehow putting the < filename after the inner } makes rc reopen it for each loop iteration. (Am I misinterpreting this?) A more convoluted way to do to the same thing would be { echo 0 > /srv/something.$pid } < filename while () { line=`{read /srv/something.$pid} echo line: $line } rm /srv/something.$pid but that's probably better for showing off /srv to your friends than it is for actually solving the problem. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 11:34:44 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 11:34:44 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 4647 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 11:43:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4642 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 11:43:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 11:43:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4ACA719A05; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 22:43:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9AFF0199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 22:42:10 -0400 (EDT) From: David Gordon Hogan To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag andg and I can't get out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-qraveqgkhpjhhhqpclhgrvkkui" Message-Id: <20010612024210.9AFF0199E9@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 22:42:07 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-qraveqgkhpjhhhqpclhgrvkkui Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> Instead of "for cat", don't you want "while read"? > >well he does, but rc doesn't have 'read'. rc doesn't have 'cat' either. Matt: you should write the 'bot in limbo. --upas-qraveqgkhpjhhhqpclhgrvkkui Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Jun 11 21:14:29 EDT 2001 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Mon Jun 11 21:14:23 EDT 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 52D0019A08; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:14:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (claudel.noos.net [212.198.2.83]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C870A199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:13:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 515316 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jun 2001 01:13:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.83 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 12 Jun 2001 01:13:29 -0000 Message-ID: <0ddc01c0f2dc$c0bca7d0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010612005538.28456.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag and I can't get out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 03:12:29 +0200 > Instead of "for cat", don't you want "while read"? well he does, but rc doesn't have 'read'. --upas-qraveqgkhpjhhhqpclhgrvkkui-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 14:54:45 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 14:54:45 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 10346 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 15:03:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10341 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 15:03:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 15:03:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 881F919A06; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 02:03:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 96F57199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 02:02:23 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Wireless lan cards for the bitsy. From: F.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-mmmwbvdugvecnvslwhystpxsuk" Message-Id: <20010612060223.96F57199E9@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 08:12:23 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-mmmwbvdugvecnvslwhystpxsuk Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dell TrueMobile is also supported, since it's actually a Lucent WaveLAN (i.e. ORINOCO). --upas-mmmwbvdugvecnvslwhystpxsuk Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (postfix@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by gsyc.escet.urjc.es (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id DAA00745; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 03:22:30 +0200 X-Authentication-Warning: gsyc.escet.urjc.es: Host postfix@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6] claimed to be mail.cse.psu.edu Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8B57819A08; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:22:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gen.relia.net (gen.relia.net [207.173.156.63]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B51E3199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:21:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from deuce.daves.net (root@deuce.daves.net [199.104.100.2]) by gen.relia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20301; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 19:21:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (daveb@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by deuce.daves.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA27481; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 19:23:14 -0600 Message-Id: <20010611.192314.74724354.daveb@daves.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, sam@ducksworth.com Subject: Re: [9fans] Wireless lan cards for the bitsy. From: "David P. Boswell" In-Reply-To: References: <200106111733.NAA29029@augusta.math.psu.edu> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.95b43 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 19:23:14 -0600 (MDT) I am using a D-Link DWL-1000AP. $250 at the local store. Any 802.11B access point should work fine. From: Sam Ducksworth Subject: Re: [9fans] Wireless lan cards for the bitsy. Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:56:04 -0700 (PDT) > On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Dan Cross wrote: > > > I used the ORiNOCO card in mine (even though the card still says > > Lucent Wavelan on it). It's the only supported wireless LAN card > > that I know of > > what are you using for your gateway? (i.e. ORiNOCO Residential > Gateway RG1000 ) > > > > > - Dan C. > > > > > > --sam > --upas-mmmwbvdugvecnvslwhystpxsuk-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 17:28:53 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 17:28:53 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 14125 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 17:37:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14121 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 17:37:36 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 17:37:36 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9638C19A08; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 04:37:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C14BB199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 04:36:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cotswold.demon.co.uk ([194.222.75.186] helo=nigel.9fs.org) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 159jfd-000NKS-0W for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:37:05 +0100 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Wireless lan cards for the bitsy. From: nigel@9fs.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-bztbhefgyihcetqsjgmqnlbmob" Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 07:28:04 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-bztbhefgyihcetqsjgmqnlbmob Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not quite. It depends what encryption you want. A lot of the cheap base stations are only 64 bit, or at least they are by the time they are neutered and delivered to across the pond. I've seen both 128 and 64 bit quoted for the D-Link. It's also not always clear whether the base stations fall back from 128 to 64 in the presence of a 64 bit client (e.g. ORiNOCO siliver pc card). Note also that whilst for a residential gateway you want one which does DHCP and NAT, some do this even if you have the access point (i.e. ethernet) version. There are reasons for this emanating from Seattle, so it's worth looking out for as you might wish to avoid the limitations of NAT. As for which pc card to buy, there are many which are straight wavelan rebadges. There are also a lot which use the Prism2 silicon, not the Hermes (wavelan) silicon/firmware. Whilst these are clealy related, there are a few hacks needs to support Prism2, which the Plan 9 driver does not have. How do you tell? Well the following URL points to the FreeBSD pccard catalogue, or at least the revision history for it. It changes very fast at the moment, so choose the tip revision (1.98.2.22 at time of writing). http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/etc/defaults/pccard.conf In the file there is a section entitled ########## wi ########## in which all the Prism2 and Hermes cards are listed. There is a quite detailed product name, and a config line. If the config line ends 0x10000 its a Prism2 card. Don't buy it, or better, buy it, fix the driver, and post it. Nigel --upas-bztbhefgyihcetqsjgmqnlbmob Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by cpu; Tue Jun 12 02:22:38 BST 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9142319A04; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:22:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gen.relia.net (gen.relia.net [207.173.156.63]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B51E3199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:21:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from deuce.daves.net (root@deuce.daves.net [199.104.100.2]) by gen.relia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20301; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 19:21:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (daveb@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by deuce.daves.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA27481; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 19:23:14 -0600 Message-Id: <20010611.192314.74724354.daveb@daves.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, sam@ducksworth.com Subject: Re: [9fans] Wireless lan cards for the bitsy. From: "David P. Boswell" In-Reply-To: References: <200106111733.NAA29029@augusta.math.psu.edu> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.95b43 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 19:23:14 -0600 (MDT) I am using a D-Link DWL-1000AP. $250 at the local store. Any 802.11B access point should work fine. From: Sam Ducksworth Subject: Re: [9fans] Wireless lan cards for the bitsy. Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:56:04 -0700 (PDT) > On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Dan Cross wrote: > > > I used the ORiNOCO card in mine (even though the card still says > > Lucent Wavelan on it). It's the only supported wireless LAN card > > that I know of > > what are you using for your gateway? (i.e. ORiNOCO Residential > Gateway RG1000 ) > > > > > - Dan C. > > > > > > --sam > --upas-bztbhefgyihcetqsjgmqnlbmob-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 18:35:43 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 18:35:43 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 15444 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 18:44:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15440 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 18:44:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 18:44:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E53E919A08; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 05:44:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from presto.hci-net (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 76E9A19A06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 05:43:21 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag and I can't get out From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010612094321.76E9A19A06@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:51:50 +0100 sergent@IO.COM wrote: > { > while () { > line=`{read} > echo line: $line > } > } < filename only problem is that's not very efficient, and possibly wrong (for packet oriented connections, such as UDP), as it can only read one character at a time... that buffering problem was the reason i implemented a getlines primitive in the inferno std module which defines its own loop: getlines { echo line: $line } < filename still, i'm not sure that shell scripts are the right place to be implementing network protocols (although i can't say i'm entirely innocent). dhog made a good suggestion: that way you can run your program on any system supported by inferno, which is a nice bonus. cheers, rog. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 18:49:43 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 18:49:43 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 15702 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 18:58:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15698 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 18:58:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 18:58:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AAB4B19A0A; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 05:58:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 66DE0199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 05:57:49 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: F.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010612095749.66DE0199E9@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] bitsy pm working Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 12:07:49 +0200 Hi, I don't send any patch here, because the code is still really dirty. But I got pm working. I can now suspend it and resume it back again. There's one problem I still face, the display colors are gone. Looks like I'm not recovering all the display state... still working on it. Any hint? It just looks like black & white, but with a brown color instead of black... In any case, to prevent me from messing things up again and loosing the working code (since dumps are 5pm here too), I made a tar file with the working files. I'll clean it up and send a patch. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 19:44:45 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 19:44:45 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 16590 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 19:53:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16586 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 19:53:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 19:53:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE6AE19A0A; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 06:53:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cejchan.gli.cas.cz (cejchan.gli.cas.cz [147.231.139.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE8B5199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 06:52:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cej by cejchan.gli.cas.cz with local (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 159luM-0007wa-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:00:26 +0200 Subject: Re: [9fans] old NEC Versa S/50 useful? To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: X-Mailer: TkMail 4.0beta9 In-Reply-To: <20010611150746.1EA95199F6@mail.cse.psu.edu> From: pac Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:00:26 +0200 That might be interesting for others, too. If anyone runs Plan 9 on a hardware not listed yet, I ask him/her to give us a few minutes of his/her time, go to the Plan 9 Wiki at http://cm.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/44/index.html and add the hardware to the list. Many thanks for us all who would like to upgrade our machines. - Peter. >> Plan 9 runs fine on brand new bitsies and brand new PCs; >> at least, I'm using Plan 9 on them. Of course there are >> devices with no Plan 9 driver, but that's a different issue. >> >> -- Peter A. Cejchan Dept. Paleobiology, Inst. Geology Acad. Sci., Rozvojova 135, Prague 6 CZ-16502 Czech Republic ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A plea: Please, consider your support to the Public Library of Science initiative at http://www.publiclibraryofscience.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 20:23:49 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 20:23:49 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 17100 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 20:32:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17096 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 20:32:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 20:32:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F00C219A0C; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 07:32:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cejchan.gli.cas.cz (cejchan.gli.cas.cz [147.231.139.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C736619A09 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 07:31:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cej by cejchan.gli.cas.cz with local (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 159mWB-0007zC-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:39:31 +0200 Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: X-Mailer: TkMail 4.0beta9 In-Reply-To: From: pac Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:39:31 +0200 >> On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Boyd Roberts wrote: >> >> > nonsense. physics is a science. i can predict things with it. >> > >> >> the uncertainty principle in quantum mechanics guarantees that there is some >> space left for art in physics :) >> >> andrey uncertainty "principle" is induced by the method of observation: would you have a better certainty if you had to observe the macroworld by cannonballs? science formulates and tests hypotheses... the part of CS that does it is likely a part of maths; the rest is engineering (I use to say `technology'). BTW, does art test any hypotheses? peter From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 20:53:42 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 20:53:42 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 17519 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 21:02:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17515 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 21:02:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 21:02:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 372B819A0C; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 08:02:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (einstein.ssz.com [204.96.2.99]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E7C9199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 08:01:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA27330 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 07:06:19 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 07:06:19 -0500 (CDT) On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, pac wrote: > BTW, does art test any hypotheses? Yes, "Do you 'get it'?" -- ____________________________________________________________________ "...where annual election ends, tyranny begins;" Thomas Jefferson & Samuel Adams The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 21:33:42 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 21:33:42 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 18010 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 21:42:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18006 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 21:42:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 21:42:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D032419A0E; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 08:42:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (verlaine.noos.net [212.198.2.73]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4CB8D19A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 08:41:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 1022887 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jun 2001 12:41:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.73 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 12 Jun 2001 12:41:15 -0000 Message-ID: <0f8901c0f33c$d5319e40$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010612094321.76E9A19A06@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag and I can't get out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:40:16 +0200 > still, i'm not sure that shell scripts are the right place to be > implementing network protocols (although i can't say i'm entirely > innocent). dhog made a good suggestion: that way you can run your > program on any system supported by inferno, which is a nice bonus. neither am i. for the current irc thing i think limbo would be a more efficient and more secure choice. that damn irc protocol seems to be in rfc limbo (no pun intended). i wouldn't like some piece of unforseen braindamage to break your script. rc is a lot more bulletproof than the shell, but scripts executing stuff that 3rd parties hand up is fraught with peril; you just don't have the conscise, fine grained analysis that limbo gives you. you could probably do it with rc, but it would be large chunks of code to do the string mangling/validation and that leaves you open to screwups. 1000 line scripts are not your friends. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 21:39:44 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 21:39:44 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 18076 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 21:48:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18072 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 21:48:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 21:48:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 34C6019A10; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 08:48:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cejchan.gli.cas.cz (cejchan.gli.cas.cz [147.231.139.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B5717199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 08:47:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cej by cejchan.gli.cas.cz with local (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 159ni5-00082z-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:55:53 +0200 Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: X-Mailer: TkMail 4.0beta9 In-Reply-To: From: pac Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:55:53 +0200 >> >> On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, pac wrote: >> >> > BTW, does art test any hypotheses? >> >> Yes, "Do you 'get it'?" >> No. P. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 21:55:44 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 21:55:44 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 18380 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 22:04:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18376 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 22:04:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 22:04:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C56E4199FD; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:04:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (mta06-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.46]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 088CD199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:03:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010612130343.TMNG285.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:03:43 +0100 Message-ID: <018001c0f33f$fb7d5c80$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010612094321.76E9A19A06@mail.cse.psu.edu> <0f8901c0f33c$d5319e40$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> Subject: Re: [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag and I can't get out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:02:49 +0100 I actually started the ircbot as a way to get to grips with plan9 c. the first one logged in and then spat out the IRC lines on stdout for me to see what was going on. My spawning it with & and doing echo 'PRIVMSG #chann :msg' > /net/tcp/N/data gave me a fully blown client ! which wasn't bad for 10 lines of C I thought. and it (false) dawned on me that maybe that was all the C I had to write. And then after scratching a bit deeper I understood Russ's rlogin script a bit better and saw that I didn't even need my C to do the connection (and that's where I fell into the paper bag). One of the problems the monolithic perl script had was that to add functionality they had to kill the bot, change the script and then log in again. I thought I was able to leverage the namespace feature as a process jail so I could sandbox the evals. In this was to add new commands to the bot all I had to do was add new things to it's namespace. That has been the most disappointing aspect as so much of the checking I've got to do now would have fallen out of having that sandbox. Oh well. I can understand why. Thanks to everyone's suggestions. It's been fun to see everyone's favourite hammer Use python Use Limbo Use C Use awk just about everything but "Use perl" ! I've got everything I need to make it work now I think. Next post from me about it should be the working code. Matt From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 22:07:43 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 22:07:43 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 18499 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 22:16:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18495 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 22:16:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 22:16:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 14FDF19A0E; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:16:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (verlaine.noos.net [212.198.2.73]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 50882199FA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:15:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 1037272 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jun 2001 13:07:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.73 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 12 Jun 2001 13:07:59 -0000 Message-ID: <0ffa01c0f340$918c6e50$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:07:00 +0200 > >> Yes, "Do you 'get it'?" err, i think the 'uncertainty principle' posting was a... joke. ok? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 22:11:44 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 22:11:44 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 18599 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 22:20:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18593 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 22:20:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 22:20:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CDF8319A11; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:20:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (aragon.noos.net [212.198.2.75]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ED432199FD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:19:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 1453615 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jun 2001 13:19:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.75 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 12 Jun 2001 13:19:55 -0000 Message-ID: <101c01c0f342$3bec8000$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010612094321.76E9A19A06@mail.cse.psu.edu> <0f8901c0f33c$d5319e40$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> <018001c0f33f$fb7d5c80$6401a8c0@freeze2k> Subject: Re: [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag and I can't get out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:18:55 +0200 > I actually started the ircbot as a way to get to grips with plan9 c. ouch. string handling in C -- no thanks. limbo is a total win, just on this one point. but there's a lot more to limbo than just that. i really like limbo. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 22:19:45 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 22:19:45 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 18705 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 22:28:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18701 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 22:28:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 22:28:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3567C19A14; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:28:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from presto.hci-net (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 06B37199FD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:27:48 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag and I can't get out From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010612132748.06B37199FD@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:36:17 +0100 > One of the problems the monolithic perl script had was that to add > functionality they had to kill the bot, change the script and then log in > again. to bang on (so to speak) about my personal favourite hammer, this is something that limbo is well suited for, as it provides dynamic loading & unloading of modules trivially. if ((mod := lookupmod(name)) == nil) { mod = load IRCbot "/dis/ircbots/" + name; if (mod == nil) { sys->fprint(stderr, "cannot find module %s: %r\n", name); return; } stashmod(name, mod); } mod->functionality(); From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 22:31:42 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 22:31:42 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 18838 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 22:40:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18834 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 22:40:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 22:40:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C677B19A11; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:40:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 626E6199FA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:39:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010612133915.VWIL283.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:39:15 +0100 Message-ID: <019101c0f344$f25f2020$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010612094321.76E9A19A06@mail.cse.psu.edu> <0f8901c0f33c$d5319e40$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> <018001c0f33f$fb7d5c80$6401a8c0@freeze2k> <101c01c0f342$3bec8000$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> Subject: Re: [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag and I can't get out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:38:21 +0100 ok i lied about the last post thing ----- Original Message ----- From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 2:18 PM Subject: Re: [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag and I can't get out > > I actually started the ircbot as a way to get to grips with plan9 c. > > ouch. string handling in C -- no thanks. limbo is a total win, I was quite enjoying the challenge. The next stage was to make a hash table of Commands to function pointers. so I could lose the if {strcmp} else if {strcmp} that was going to expand. For a minute it was like being back in the Windows 3.1 API. main(void) { int fd; int state = 0; Biobuf bio; String *line = s_new(); String *token = s_new(); int i = 0; fd = dial("tcp!irc!6667",0 , 0, 0); if (fd < 0) return; Binit(&bio, fd, OREAD); while(s_getline(&bio, s_restart(line))) { s_restart(line); print ("%s\n", s_to_c(line)); s_parse(line, s_restart(token)); if(strcmp("PING", s_to_c(token)) == 0) { s_parse(line, s_restart(token)); fprint(fd, "PONG %s\n", s_to_c(token)); if (state == 0) { fprint(fd, "JOIN #chan\nPRIVMSG #chan hullo\n"); state = 1; } } if(i++ == 2) { fprint(fd, "USER bot cb.com ircserver ChuglyV0.1\nNICK Chugly\n"); } } } From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 22:36:44 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 22:36:44 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 18889 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 22:45:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18885 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 22:45:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 22:45:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EB0AA19A16; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:45:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 259EE199FA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:44:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010612134407.VZMI283.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:44:07 +0100 Message-ID: <019501c0f345$a0833420$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010612132748.06B37199FD@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag and I can't get out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:43:13 +0100 okay okay :) project2 will be the Inferno irc client but when can I look forward to signing it and dropping it on a web page and using the Limbo plugin for IE ? that would be pretty useful. Giving clients a url of our IRC server instead of saying "download an IRC client". I might get a gold star for that one. Matt /me dreams of weaning clients away from html for administrating their sites /me doesn't want to hear about java. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 2:36 PM Subject: Re: [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag and I can't get out > > One of the problems the monolithic perl script had was that to add > > functionality they had to kill the bot, change the script and then log in > > again. > > to bang on (so to speak) about my personal favourite hammer, this is > something that limbo is well suited for, as it provides dynamic loading > & unloading of modules trivially. > > if ((mod := lookupmod(name)) == nil) { > mod = load IRCbot "/dis/ircbots/" + name; > if (mod == nil) { > sys->fprint(stderr, "cannot find module %s: %r\n", name); > return; > } > stashmod(name, mod); > } > mod->functionality(); > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 22:57:42 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 22:57:42 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19191 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 23:06:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19187 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 23:06:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 23:06:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0A99319A15; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:06:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 73A3519A0E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:05:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21717 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:05:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id KAA04068; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:05:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200106121405.KAA04068@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag and I can't get out Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <018001c0f33f$fb7d5c80$6401a8c0@freeze2k> References: <20010612094321.76E9A19A06@mail.cse.psu.edu> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:05:36 -0400 (EDT) In article <018001c0f33f$fb7d5c80$6401a8c0@freeze2k> you write: >Thanks to everyone's suggestions. It's been fun to see everyone's favourite >hammer > >Use python >Use Limbo >Use C >Use awk > >just about everything but "Use perl" ! Use COBOL, dude.... - Dan C. :-P From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 23:04:44 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 23:04:44 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19270 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 23:13:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19266 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 23:13:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 23:13:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ED91C19A18; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:13:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B24A919A0E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:12:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22728 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:12:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id KAA04138; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:12:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200106121412.KAA04138@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <0cc301c0f2c0$78949560$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> References: Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:12:33 -0400 (EDT) In article <0cc301c0f2c0$78949560$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> you write: >nonsense. physics is a science. i can predict things with it. I can predict things with computer science as well: the average and worst-case running times of an algorithm, for instance, or the amount of memory used by activation records in a recursive algorithm. >does computer science predict anything for me? i'll give you that >it does have an axiom that states: > > you will be plagued by bugs in any development effort This is a software engineering maxim. Speaking of which.... There are ``laws'' of software engineering that are kind of like laws of physics. Add more programmers to a late project, and it gets later; etc. >but that doesn't really predict anything in anything that vaguely >approaches a _law_ of physics -- pick one. eg. the prohibition >of speeds greater than the of speed of light. The Church-Turing thesis; NP-complete problems; the halting problem, just to name a few. >comp sci is more like an engineering discipline with very few >fundamentals. Maybe, but that wasn't even my point. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 23:07:44 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 23:07:44 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19300 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 23:16:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19295 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 23:16:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 23:16:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D9CC19A1A; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:16:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7ECF419A0E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:15:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23081 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:15:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id KAA04177; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:15:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200106121415.KAA04177@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: References: <0cbd01c0f2c0$209433c0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:15:33 -0400 (EDT) In article you write: >how about not being able to sort a list at better than n log n? Ahem, uhh, I can sort in O(n) if I have auxilliary memory of size proportional to n. :-) Apparantly, some guy did come up with an algorithm that runs in better than O(n lg n) using no additional memory. I don't have a literature pointer, though; sorry. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 23:10:43 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 23:10:43 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19368 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 23:19:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19364 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 23:19:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 23:19:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1BA5A19A1E; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:19:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D6B7619A0E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:18:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23523 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:18:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id KAA04202; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:18:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200106121418.KAA04202@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <15141.18819.7956.967025@nido.hilbert.space> References: <0cb501c0f2bf$97cacea0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:18:10 -0400 (EDT) In article <15141.18819.7956.967025@nido.hilbert.space> you write: >Would you say Math is a science?. >Its theoretical foundations are based on turing machines... Woah, they are? Mathematics, and many of its theoretical foundations, existed for a really long time before Alan Turing was born.... >(I believe all physics are written in math simbols...) Basically, but each discipline seems to invent its own psuedo- mathematical notation. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it can get really confusing (cf. i in mathematics vs. j in engineering). - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 23:12:59 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 23:12:59 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19418 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 23:21:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19414 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 23:21:43 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 23:21:43 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1B85619A1F; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:21:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6533C199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:20:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23953 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:20:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id KAA04229; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:20:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200106121420.KAA04229@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] unfair? Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <0cc801c0f2c3$516ff490$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> References: <200106111610.SAA18053@boris.cd.chalmers.se> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:20:47 -0400 (EDT) In article <0cc801c0f2c3$516ff490$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> you write: >i could probably walk down 5th av and be stoned to death >by plan 9 supported PCMCIA ethernet cards. The guys with fake Rolex's and badly recorded `pirate' movies on VHS would probably finish you off before you got to the computer store section in the 30's. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 23:15:44 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 23:15:44 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19436 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 23:24:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19432 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 23:24:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 23:24:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8397F19A21; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:24:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from presto.hci-net (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0404719A15 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:23:29 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag and I can't get out From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010612142329.0404719A15@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:32:04 +0100 matt wrote: > but when can I look forward to signing it and dropping it on a web page and > using the Limbo plugin for IE ? > > that would be pretty useful. Giving clients a url of our IRC server instead > of saying "download an IRC client". despite our reticence on the matter, we have been thinking quite hard about this. the problem is that there are some difficult security issues that need to be resolved before we do it, none of which have obvious solutions. like: what happens if someone puts a limbo app on a web page that takes up no screen space, but dials out and does nefarious things (e.g. taking part in a DDOS attack). ok, so if you've got signatures, you know who purported to sign the app, but what public key infrastructure do you use? how do you handle key revocation? i don't think it would be desirable to produce something as unwieldy (and insecure) as the stuff used by Windows, but neither does one want to burden the user more than absolutely necessary. plus probably a hundred other issues which i've forgotten about for the moment. it would be lovely to have limbo applications running inside IE with access to all available devices (apart from anything, it makes for an extremely easy-to-install inferno), but until the above problems are solved, i'm not sure it's a good idea. cheers, rog. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 23:23:43 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 23:23:43 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19564 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 23:32:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19560 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 23:32:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 23:32:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9B39C19A1D; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:32:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8140A199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:31:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25479 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:31:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id KAA04363; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:31:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200106121431.KAA04363@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Wireless lan cards for the bitsy. Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:31:56 -0400 (EDT) In article you write: >Not quite. It depends what encryption you want. A lot of the cheap >base stations are only 64 bit, or at least they are by the time they >are neutered and delivered to across the pond. I've seen both 128 and >64 bit quoted for the D-Link. It's also not always clear whether the >base stations fall back from 128 to 64 in the presence of a 64 bit >client (e.g. ORiNOCO siliver pc card). Yes, but that really doesn't matter because the crypto used in 802.11 is, to quote Boyd, an ``unmitigated disaster.'' (Sorry, Boyd.) See the ISAAC group at Berkeley's paper on how they cracked WEP. http://www.isaac.cs.berkeley.edu/ Unfortunately, the results are not just theoretical, but very practical; I wouldn't advise anyone to depend on the crypto in 802.11 for defense against anything other than casual sniffing. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 23:32:45 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 23:32:45 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19637 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 23:41:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19633 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 23:41:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 23:41:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 82CE719A1E; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:41:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 43E59199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:40:05 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Wireless lan cards for the bitsy. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010612144005.43E59199E9@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:40:03 -0400 it works well against casual sniffing. Unfortunately, if you can inject packets into the network by some other means, e.g. pinging in via a wired net, then the only thing you need to totally circumvent WEP is a few gig of storage (actually 8 gig will let you do it all). Without the ability to probe, it's possible but a lot harder. It is true that once you've guessed the pattern that a single packet is xor'd with, you can inject packets forever. The committee is working on a new standard that might be achievable on the current cards (the wavelan ones at least are reprgrammable) and one that actually has been reviewed by someone that understands security. Unfortunately, they seem to be stuck in wanting to use a single code as both a secure MAC and as a ECC. Since the 2 uses require very different properties of the code, I expect they'll be fighting over it for a while. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 23:33:43 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 23:33:43 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19658 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 23:42:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19654 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 23:42:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 23:42:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D6D619A23; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:42:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from haddock.cd.chalmers.se (haddock.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0C774199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:41:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (boris.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.21]) by haddock.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA04062; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:41:36 +0200 (MET DST) From: Laura Creighton Received: (from lac@localhost) by boris.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3/8.8.7) id QAA28591; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:41:35 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200106121441.QAA28591@boris.cd.chalmers.se> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: lac@cd.chalmers.se Subject: [9fans] tidy Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:41:35 +0200 (MET DST) you don't keep obsolete hardware around cluttering up the place. You go to the Chalmers Engineering Society (among other places) and let them auction them off for whatever they can get for it. But that is once a year, in the mean time getting hardware that is not current is rather difficult. Laura From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 23:36:44 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 23:36:44 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19726 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 23:45:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19722 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 23:45:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 23:45:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 81D1719A27; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:45:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E2DE1199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:44:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27149 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:44:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id KAA04473; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:44:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200106121444.KAA04473@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Wireless lan cards for the bitsy. Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: References: <200106111733.NAA29029@augusta.math.psu.edu> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:44:51 -0400 (EDT) In article you write: >> I used the ORiNOCO card in mine (even though the card still says >> Lucent Wavelan on it). It's the only supported wireless LAN card >> that I know of > >what are you using for your gateway? (i.e. ORiNOCO Residential >Gateway RG1000 ) We're using the ORiNOCO access point with 2 card slots; I'm not sure of the exact model number but our systems guys tell me that there's only one with 2 slots, and when I looked at it a few minutes ago it said, ``WaveACCESS Central Office Router'' on it. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 23:46:43 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 23:46:43 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19914 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 23:55:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19910 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 23:55:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 23:55:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8527319A20; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:55:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ABAD0199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:54:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28696 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:54:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id KAA08032; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:54:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200106121454.KAA08032@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer scienscience Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <20010612003610.3980A199E9@mail.cse.psu.edu> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:54:29 -0400 (EDT) In article <20010612003610.3980A199E9@mail.cse.psu.edu> you write: > [...] > >This means that we have a hard time imparting anything >from generation to generation that can really be useful >except for how to reason about problems. But knowing how to reason about the problem is a good 75% of the battle (if not more). When I was 20 years old, I read, ``The Elements of Programming Style,'' first edition. The book is older than I am, but it _profoundly_ influenced how I thought and worked, even though I've never programmed in PL/I and only rarely work with FORTRAN. It was then that it occured to me that it's the principles, not the specifics, that are timeless and really important. The problem with education these days is that the students want to learn the specifics; mistakenly assuming that's what's important, and education, hungry for student currency, is more than happy to cater to them. Anyway, how do you teach someone to think? I have no idea; your suggestions are a good first step, but it seems that the `proper mind set' outcome is a side effect of exposure with that method; is there a way to directly target the thought process? - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 23:49:42 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 23:49:42 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19944 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2001 23:58:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19940 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 23:58:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 23:58:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 018F419A23; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:58:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (lafontaine.noos.net [212.198.2.72]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A1C31199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:57:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 278687 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jun 2001 14:57:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.72 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 12 Jun 2001 14:57:57 -0000 Message-ID: <108f01c0f34f$ee2daa70$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010612094321.76E9A19A06@mail.cse.psu.edu> <0f8901c0f33c$d5319e40$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> <018001c0f33f$fb7d5c80$6401a8c0@freeze2k> <101c01c0f342$3bec8000$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> <019101c0f344$f25f2020$6401a8c0@freeze2k> Subject: Re: [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag and I can't get out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:56:58 +0200 > I was quite enjoying the challenge. well as my M-1 Abrams tank commander mate said to me: never give up, but choose your battles wisely. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 23:51:44 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 23:51:44 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20008 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 00:00:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20004 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 00:00:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 00:00:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 82A8219A2A; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:00:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (mta07-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.47]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B110E199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:59:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010612145921.NARR285.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:59:21 +0100 Message-ID: <01bf01c0f350$22f579e0$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010612142329.0404719A15@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag and I can't get out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:58:27 +0100 > despite our reticence on the matter, we have been thinking quite hard > about this. the problem is that there are some difficult security > issues that need to be resolved before we do it, none of which have > obvious solutions. > > like: what happens if someone puts a limbo app on a web page that takes > up no screen space, but dials out and does nefarious things I understand the problem. Shame. Just giving it access only the domain it came from would suit me. esp. if that meant *.domainIcamefrom.com I can just about see http://haxor.aol.com atacking dialup123.aol.com in that scenario but go-on. I won't tell anyone it was you. you could always say "evil crackers attack vitanuova and steal very useful inferno plugIn for IE" should get you on /. and that usually gets a few converts ;) M From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 12 23:52:33 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 12 23:52:33 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20031 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 00:01:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20027 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 00:01:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 00:01:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8192B19A2C; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:00:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (camus.noos.net [212.198.2.70]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 56646199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:59:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 1086065 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jun 2001 14:59:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.70 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 12 Jun 2001 14:59:26 -0000 Message-ID: <109501c0f350$2308b3c0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010612132748.06B37199FD@mail.cse.psu.edu> <019501c0f345$a0833420$6401a8c0@freeze2k> Subject: Re: [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag and I can't get out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:58:27 +0200 > project2 will be the Inferno irc client make sure you read that protocol spec :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 00:01:43 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 00:01:43 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20205 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 00:10:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20201 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 00:10:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 00:10:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AAE5D19A21; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:10:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1AD92199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:09:43 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer scienscience MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010612150943.1AD92199E9@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:09:40 -0400 > Anyway, how do you teach someone to think? I have no idea; your > suggestions are a good first step, but it seems that the `proper mind > set' outcome is a side effect of exposure with that method; is there a > way to directly target the thought process? It was imbred in me by a Latin teacher whose key phrase was ``why use two when one will do''. The immediate application was to avoid flowery language but it the rule applies in general. With programming, constraints that helped. I inherited a course at Princeton from Rob. The thing I liked the best about it was an assignment he gave to write a shell. The constraint was in the size of the shell. We said what it was supposed to do (no job control) and took points off for programs exceeding the size limits. I reviewed the best solutions with the students. But when it comes down to it, the real challenge is imparting some flavor of your taste to the students by example or by the application of grades. Some rules help, as long as you can get them to understand that the rules are guidelines and not hard. If you're lucky you can do it in such a way that doesn't cramp originality on their part. I've also found it useful to review Plan 9 code and Unix code with them. That way they can see different solutions for the same problems. I actually find things like the toy operating system more harmful than helpful. They come away understanding some of the concepts, perhaps better than reading them in a book, but totally lose the perspective of the size of the problems and the necessity to be careful with minutia. All this is very interaction intensive. It's easy if you're a hired gun doing one course and then running back to your real life. I couldn't imagine keeping it up semester after semester. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 00:06:45 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 00:06:45 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20259 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 00:15:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20255 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 00:15:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 00:15:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BA2C319A23; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:15:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (lafontaine.noos.net [212.198.2.72]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 23411199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:14:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 393225 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jun 2001 15:14:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.72 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 12 Jun 2001 15:14:07 -0000 Message-ID: <10a901c0f352$303d1070$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <0cbd01c0f2c0$209433c0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> <200106121415.KAA04177@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 17:13:08 +0200 > Apparantly, some guy did come up with an algorithm that runs in > better than O(n lg n) using no additional memory. I don't have > a literature pointer, though; sorry. i do. La Bo€te Bleue: http://idiot-dog.com/humor/boite-bleue.html From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 00:08:41 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 00:08:41 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20285 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 00:17:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20281 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 00:17:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 00:17:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1393C19A2B; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:17:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cosym.net (sdsl-64-7-3-116.dsl.nyc.megapath.net [64.7.3.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 21829199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:16:45 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer scienscience From: anothy@cosym.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20010612151645.21829199E9@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:16:31 -0400 //is there a way to directly target the thought process? of cource there is. it's called "brainwashing". and i've seen it be very effective for certain groups. -α. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 00:33:44 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 00:33:44 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20537 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 00:42:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20533 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 00:42:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 00:42:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EB20A19A21; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:42:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from haddock.cd.chalmers.se (haddock.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 55785199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:41:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (boris.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.21]) by haddock.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA09911; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 17:41:04 +0200 (MET DST) From: Laura Creighton Received: (from lac@localhost) by boris.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3/8.8.7) id RAA29551; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 17:41:04 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200106121541.RAA29551@boris.cd.chalmers.se> To: cross@math.psu.edu Cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, lac@cd.chalmers.se Subject: [9fans] How do you teach people to think Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 17:41:04 +0200 (MET DST) One way is to stick large amounts geometry and other reasoning type math tasks down the throats of 10-13 year olds. Hours of extra work every day. Pack it in until they are exhausted and demand something that is real hard physical exercise. That was my father's recipe for me. Worked great as far as I can tell. I have had a certain amount of success with simply telling people that `i expect you to do a certain amount of thinking' ... and then refusing to do their thinking for them. In other words, actually expecting it. Laura From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 00:34:21 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 00:34:21 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20545 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 00:43:06 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20541 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 00:43:05 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 00:43:05 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2193C19A2B; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:42:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4EF96199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:41:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04573 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:41:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id LAA14730; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:41:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200106121541.LAA14730@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Wireless lan cards for the bitsy. Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <200106121444.KAA04473@augusta.math.psu.edu> References: Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:41:45 -0400 (EDT) In article <200106121444.KAA04473@augusta.math.psu.edu> you write: >We're using the ORiNOCO access point with 2 card slots; I'm not >sure of the exact model number but our systems guys tell me that >there's only one with 2 slots, and when I looked at it a few >minutes ago it said, ``WaveACCESS Central Office Router'' on it. Ahh, Paul Lustgarten tells me in private mail that the ORiNOCO AP1000 LAN gateway matches the description I gave above; Paul's note follows (reprinted with permission). Thanks, Paul! - Dan C. --- Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:13:36 -0400 To: Dan Cross From: Paul C Lustgarten Subject: Re: [9fans] Wireless lan cards for the bitsy. Dan, [Forward or recount to 9fans as appropriate] At 10:44 AM 6/12/2001 -0400, you wrote: >In article you write: >>> I used the ORiNOCO card in mine (even though the card still says >>> Lucent Wavelan on it). It's the only supported wireless LAN card >>> that I know of >> >>what are you using for your gateway? (i.e. ORiNOCO Residential >>Gateway RG1000 ) > >We're using the ORiNOCO access point with 2 card slots; I'm not >sure of the exact model number but our systems guys tell me that >there's only one with 2 slots, and when I looked at it a few >minutes ago it said, ``WaveACCESS Central Office Router'' on it. There are three key ORiNOCO products, AFAIK: - RG1000 Residential Gateway, one slot, *external* LAN - AP1000 LAN gateway, two slots & one local LAN - AP500 LAN gateway, one slot & one local LAN The RG1000 is aimed at having *no* local wiring, and thus provides all the gateway capabilities one might want at the *edge* of a home or small business LAN - as long as the local LAN is entirely wireless. I'm using the AP-1000, with a separate Linksys Etherswitch for my gateway to the outside world. My LAN has a mix of wired and wireless segments. --- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 00:45:45 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 00:45:45 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20655 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 00:54:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20651 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 00:54:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 00:54:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 512A919A2C; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:54:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (descartes.noos.net [212.198.2.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 234F8199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:53:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 1187367 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jun 2001 15:53:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.74 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 12 Jun 2001 15:53:31 -0000 Message-ID: <10e701c0f357$b13b6d20$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200106111610.SAA18053@boris.cd.chalmers.se> <200106121420.KAA04229@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] unfair? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 17:52:32 +0200 > The guys with fake Rolex's and badly recorded `pirate' movies > on VHS would probably finish you off before you got to the > computer store section in the 30's. not yet. not ever. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 00:46:43 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 00:46:43 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20670 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 00:55:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20666 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 00:55:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 00:55:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2E25619A30; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:55:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (zola.noos.net [212.198.2.76]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 88D3D19A2E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:54:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 923125 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jun 2001 15:51:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.76 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 12 Jun 2001 15:51:41 -0000 Message-ID: <10df01c0f357$6fff23b0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <0cb501c0f2bf$97cacea0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> <200106121418.KAA04202@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 17:50:42 +0200 > >(I believe all physics are written in math simbols...) i think i'll have to take feynman's stance: physics is to math what sex is to ... i just can't get a good reference for this 1999? quote. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 01:09:45 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 01:09:45 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20973 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 01:18:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20969 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 01:18:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 01:18:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7F52E19A2A; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 12:18:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id D6097199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 12:16:59 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: F.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-vlfazdmffbfcbtjybtaxrghhxg" Message-Id: <20010612161659.D6097199E9@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] patch: suspend for the bitsy Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:26:56 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-vlfazdmffbfcbtjybtaxrghhxg Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit These files go at /sys/src/9/bitsy and are intended to let 9bitsy suspend/resume by pressing the on/off button. Beware that I've tested them only on a 32M bitsy. Beware also that you need a recent compaq bootldr installed. I have tested it only with Compaq OHH BootLoader, Rev 2-14-5 [BIG_KERNEL] [MONO] on a 206 MHZ ARM, ver 1/part b11/step 8 bitsy To get plan 9 booting with that bootldr, you have to apply the patch I sent days ago for the arm il.s. (bootldr seeks into the kernel memory to find some magic number and refuses to boot when there's no such number). This is what I have changed: power.c: the code for suspend/resume l.s: couple of aux routines clock.c, devµc.c, sa1100uart.c, fns.h, io.h, mem.h, screen.c, and trap.c: I added xxxpower() routines and sometimes I moved declarations of machine registers to io.h so power.c could access them. Another thing I have to say is that my arm assembler knowledge is pretty bad, in particular, l.s could shrink a lot by using movm instructions, whose a5 syntax is not yet clear for me. All the files changed are included in the attached .tar.gz file. enjoy. --upas-vlfazdmffbfcbtjybtaxrghhxg Content-Type: application/octet-stream Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=bitsy.tgz Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 H4sICHtBJjsAAy90bXAvYml0c3kA7H1rV9tI0vDz1fyKXnZ3YhsDlm0MgZD3gIEJJyFhbJjs bDaHI8syaJEljSRzmZnsv3r+wPPL3rr0TbIgsPvOXp53OCexuruqurq6urr67oWxd73m/dev +SeE6Pd6An+FaJd+heg5m30hNruOs9Fu97rwLTY6G93/Es/O6Le/Z//9Poi8cD7xa8vztavl JRNcW1tP4jRfD4NxMWHmz4oREzcvRkyjrBgRxMXwPPUvq3Pz0zROMWlpKcvdPPBEEOWClDSI gtyf7OiEmziY1GRKntbPgWazRbHNBkDhxxIlJ/Gtn9aRThw1ln5eWqoFU1GH75+XarU8mEGe /mW2+jrOslT8siucV6/aO6WkwE9FdUo2Sz+1P0NiIdJLxYoYYO5Hqf/j+ps/A9qXpS82W1ie OgaRp9o8jKNLcbejvgIsaW29KWZuIvIrn2UggH6Q5X6aieb6kuEDsge4LPG9wA3rH0ZnxyeH w+Hht6OW6HYakpIfuePQR4EC0jzJM5AHoOXelSYr2i2Rz9NIxNOpcMNQxJB1ObMFSaH8mXj9 ePhdS8B/BAzEdP20RBSELbFMEcvA0oPiJV6nwSUoiYjnuUjS2POzLE7FFEQ59yPvnvi5Awyq WqaRJCDzb0T7zpkCcS+OpmtXPwGIroRm/a7ZW3H6DZU8o/S6BF3pvcS/xrrTpj/JyKVvc5Df 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SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 01:27:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9E92219A31; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 12:27:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.82]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1C77819A2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 12:26:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moe ([24.0.68.120]) by femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010612162618.EYIR1645.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@moe> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:26:18 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.388) From: Jonathan Sergent To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v388) In-Reply-To: <20010612094321.76E9A19A06@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag and I can't get out Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010612162618.EYIR1645.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@moe> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:26:17 -0700 On Tuesday, June 12, 2001, at 02:51 AM, rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > only problem is that's not very efficient, and possibly wrong (for > packet oriented connections, such as UDP), as it can only read one > character at a time... Yes, that was bugging me too. But what else can you do if you might end up in a subprocess? You end up with magic to seek the file descriptor backwards to cover up the fact that you read too much, and turning off buffering on file descriptors where seek doesn't work. > that buffering problem was the reason i implemented a getlines > primitive in the inferno std module which defines its own loop: > > getlines { > echo line: $line > } < filename That seems kind of awkward. You might not want to do your reads in a loop; you might want to do them in multiple places; perhaps inside a function. > still, i'm not sure that shell scripts are the right place to be > implementing network protocols (although i can't say i'm entirely > innocent). I've done HTTP, FTP, and RTSP in ksh-88... oh, well. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 01:51:44 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 01:51:44 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 21428 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 02:00:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21424 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 02:00:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 02:00:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E085619A21; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:00:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from doppio.hci-net (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 82A40199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 12:59:07 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag and I can't get out From: forsyth@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010612165907.82A40199E9@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:00:59 +0100 >>I've done HTTP, FTP, and RTSP in ksh-88... oh, well. not OSPF? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 01:54:44 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 01:54:44 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 21459 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 02:03:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21455 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 02:03:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 02:03:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 571AB19A30; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:03:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.82]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 819B019A2B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:02:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moe ([24.0.68.120]) by femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010612170203.GISH1645.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@moe> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:02:03 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.388) From: Jonathan Sergent To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v388) In-Reply-To: <20010612165907.82A40199E9@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag and I can't get out Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010612170203.GISH1645.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@moe> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:02:02 -0700 On Tuesday, June 12, 2001, at 10:00 AM, forsyth@vitanuova.com wrote: >>> I've done HTTP, FTP, and RTSP in ksh-88... oh, well. > > not OSPF? > I think this is off-topic now. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 02:00:42 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 02:00:42 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 21500 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 02:09:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21496 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 02:09:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 02:09:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1A14F19A34; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:09:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ducksworth.com (unknown [209.152.156.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8979E19A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:08:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (samd@localhost) by ducksworth.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5CH88c71723 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:08:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sam@ducksworth.com) X-Authentication-Warning: lucifer.ducksworth.com: samd owned process doing -bs From: Sam Ducksworth X-X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Wireless lan cards for the bitsy. In-Reply-To: <200106121541.LAA14730@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:08:08 -0700 (PDT) -------- > >We're using the ORiNOCO access point with 2 card slots; I'm not > >sure of the exact model number but our systems guys tell me that > >there's only one with 2 slots, and when I looked at it a few > >minutes ago it said, ``WaveACCESS Central Office Router'' on it. > > There are three key ORiNOCO products, AFAIK: > > - RG1000 Residential Gateway, one slot, *external* LAN > - AP1000 LAN gateway, two slots & one local LAN > - AP500 LAN gateway, one slot & one local LAN > > The RG1000 is aimed at having *no* local wiring, and thus provides all > the gateway capabilities one might want at the *edge* of a home or small > business LAN - as long as the local LAN is entirely wireless. I'm using > the AP-1000, with a separate Linksys Etherswitch for my gateway to the > outside world. My LAN has a mix of wired and wireless segments. After looking over all of the options it think the AP500 and Wavelan Gold combo looks like the best solution for the money. thanks for the info. --sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 02:01:28 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 02:01:28 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 21530 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 02:10:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21526 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 02:10:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 02:10:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DDB4A19A38; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:09:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from presto.hci-net (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8235219A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:08:49 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag and I can't get out From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010612170849.8235219A02@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:17:24 +0100 > Yes, that was bugging me too. But what else can you do if you might end > up in a subprocess? You end up with magic to seek the file descriptor > backwards to cover up the fact that you read too much, and turning off > buffering on file descriptors where seek doesn't work. in general you can't do it. there's no way of finding out whether seek works on a file, as it's done at the client end of a 9p or styx connection (server just sees a read at a particular offset). the bourne shell's built-in read was actually just as bad; it just happened to work most of the time, so you didn't notice. > > getlines { > > echo line: $line > > } < filename > > That seems kind of awkward. You might not want to do your reads in a > loop; you might want to do them in multiple places; perhaps inside a > function. the basic problem is that due to the nature of the shell, the programs it invokes can't maintain state from invocation to invocation. so something like the above construct is the only way AFAIK of doing buffering properly. if you don't want your reads in a loop, then you have to sacrifice some buffering. the inferno read(1) is somewhat different from the plan 9 read, and more like the read(2) system call: read 200 will make a single 200 byte read request and write the result to stdout. at least this doesn't have to read a character at a time, but it's dangerous for non-record-oriented files, as it might split utf byte sequences. although the buffered read with implicit loop looks as if it might be awkward, in practise i haven't found it to be so. it does seem to be a very common way of structuring input-reading programs. and in the inferno shell, you can always use the tk module and its channels to change the structure around: load tk chan lines getlines { send lines $line } < /limbo/com.c & subfn readline { result = ${recv lines} } echo first line is: ${readline} echo second line is: ${readline} echo third line is: ${readline} whether that's really ugly or quite elegant i'll leave as an exercise for the reader... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 02:22:42 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 02:22:42 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 21715 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 02:31:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21711 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 02:31:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 02:31:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 63E6C19A31; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:31:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 5CFA719A2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:30:25 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: F.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010612173025.5CFA719A2C@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] alarm handling and suspended machines Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 19:40:21 +0200 When a process calls alarm(2), it is noted into the alarms list by port/alarm.c. Since checkalarms checks the list once per tick, the hw is unaware that there's an alarm scheduled. My question is, couldn't alarm.c call to something like wakeup_timer(time) with the time up to the next user alarm. I ask this because if I want my ipaq to automatically resume from suspend mode and warn me about an appointment or something, it must have an RTC alarm set. This is not feasible if the portable implementation doesn't let the mdep part know. So, what about adding wakeup_timer() calls in procalarm, and implementing it in pc/ bitsy/ ... as either - nothing - (re)set a hw timer for the given time if suspend is supported. The mach dep part could ignore the timer whenever it expires. Any better suggestion? BTW, although some commands use periodic alarms that could wake up the machine if sysalarm(2) is changed, after a quick grep under /sys/src/cmd, it seems that only network services are doing so. Anyone knows of an obvious command that is likely to be used on standalone bitsies and to schedule periodic alarms? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 03:17:43 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 03:17:43 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22309 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 03:26:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22305 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 03:26:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 03:26:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DCC4819A34; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:26:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from subito.home.cs.york.ac.uk (caldo.demon.co.uk [194.222.207.148]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E7D5D19A30 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:25:33 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag and I can't get out From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010612182533.E7D5D19A30@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 19:21:20 +0100 >>you could always say "evil crackers attack vitanuova and steal very useful >>inferno plugIn for IE" should get you on /. and that usually gets a few >>converts ;) i suspect we are more worried about ending up in the computing press with ``vita nuova provides evil crackers with yet another nasty gateway into ...''. admittedly a very big software company seems to get away with it, but i suspect that's because they are very big software company, not because they really got away with it. in the interim, we'll probably go with an intermediate scheme that i think will be adequate and be no more subtle for the user than anything else on the net (ie, subtle enough but they should know by now). we already did get a large number of downloads after mention on /., so that bit was easy. ``don't they know how wrong this is?'' was one response. i sometimes think that about computing. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 03:32:43 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 03:32:43 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22488 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 03:41:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22484 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 03:41:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 03:41:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1DA2019A3A; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:41:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (claudel.noos.net [212.198.2.83]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6EC7F19A37 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:40:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 1415765 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jun 2001 18:40:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.83 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 12 Jun 2001 18:40:55 -0000 Message-ID: <110601c0f36f$142e6c40$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200106121431.KAA04363@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Wireless lan cards for the bitsy. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 20:39:56 +0200 > Yes, but that really doesn't matter because the crypto used in > 802.11 is, to quote Boyd, an ``unmitigated disaster.'' (Sorry, > Boyd.) quote away. i'm quite comfortable with unmitigated disasters. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 03:37:45 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 03:37:45 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22545 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 03:46:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22541 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 03:46:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 03:46:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C48619A3E; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:46:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A258819A3B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:45:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27523 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:45:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id OAA24604; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:45:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200106121845.OAA24604@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] unfair? Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <10e701c0f357$b13b6d20$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> References: <200106111610.SAA18053@boris.cd.chalmers.se> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:45:18 -0400 (EDT) In article <10e701c0f357$b13b6d20$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> you write: >> The guys with fake Rolex's and badly recorded `pirate' movies >> on VHS would probably finish you off before you got to the >> computer store section in the 30's. > >not yet. not ever. The joke was that you had said you'd be stoned to death with PCMCIA modems walking down 5th ave, but there are far more guys selling fake Rolex's (lately, swiss army watches too...Who knew?) and ripped off movies on VHS than guys selling computer parts. If anybody's going to stone anybody to death with anything on 5th ave, it'll be cheap watches, not modems. For that matter, there are more guys selling hot dogs on 5th ave, but the idea of anyone being hotdogged to death is just, well, gross. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 03:40:43 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 03:40:43 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22562 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 03:49:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22558 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 03:49:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 03:49:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE78819A42; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:49:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9EB2119A3F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:48:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27821 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:48:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id OAA24622; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:48:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200106121848.OAA24622@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <10df01c0f357$6fff23b0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> References: <0cb501c0f2bf$97cacea0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:48:14 -0400 (EDT) In article <10df01c0f357$6fff23b0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> you write: >i think i'll have to take feynman's stance: > > physics is to math what sex is to ... > >i just can't get a good reference for this 1999? quote. Feynman was dead in 1999. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 03:42:56 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 03:42:56 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22602 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 03:51:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22598 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 03:51:40 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 03:51:40 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CC74819A21; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:51:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 98E8D19A43 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:50:01 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] unfair? From: David Gordon Hogan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010612185001.98E8D19A43@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:49:58 -0400 > For that matter, there are more guys selling hot dogs on 5th ave, but > the idea of anyone being hotdogged to death is just, well, gross. But it might be ok if they were bunned to death, particularly around 23rd st. (Hail Eris!) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 03:53:43 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 03:53:43 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22744 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 04:02:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22740 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 04:02:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 04:02:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6E3DC19A44; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:02:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (zola.noos.net [212.198.2.76]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5905319A2A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:01:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 1102606 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jun 2001 19:01:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.76 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 12 Jun 2001 19:01:39 -0000 Message-ID: <113701c0f371$f98c7640$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200106121541.RAA29551@boris.cd.chalmers.se> Subject: Re: [9fans] How do you teach people to think MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 21:00:40 +0200 i'm not sure you can. i think i'll leave it at that. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 03:56:53 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 03:56:53 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22768 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 04:05:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22764 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 04:05:37 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 04:05:37 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D08519A37; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:05:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (verlaine.noos.net [212.198.2.73]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CB98119A47 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:04:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 1258196 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jun 2001 18:52:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.73 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 12 Jun 2001 18:52:39 -0000 Message-ID: <111401c0f370$b770e5d0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010612142329.0404719A15@mail.cse.psu.edu> <01bf01c0f350$22f579e0$6401a8c0@freeze2k> Subject: Re: [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag and I can't get out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 20:51:40 +0200 > Just giving it access only the domain it came from would suit me. > > esp. if that meant *.domainIcamefrom.com domains? well as long as they are derived from local 'secure' source rather that the DNS you're probably fairly safe. what rog was talking about seemed to be some PKI based code signing system. i think the PKI's unworkable. i'm not sure what the solution is, but it would be a lot more secure if you had the certificate of the signer on a chip card that you jam into your machine. gnarly problem, i think. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 04:14:42 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 04:14:42 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22991 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 04:23:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22987 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 04:23:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 04:23:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 79C4E19A34; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:23:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gsyc.escet.urjc.es (gsyc.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.45]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A0B3E199DC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:22:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gsyc.escet.urjc.es (193-153-118-43.uc.nombres.ttd.es [193.153.118.43]) by gsyc.escet.urjc.es (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id VAA22800 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 21:22:00 +0200 X-Authentication-Warning: gsyc.escet.urjc.es: Host 193-153-118-43.uc.nombres.ttd.es [193.153.118.43] claimed to be gsyc.escet.urjc.es Message-ID: <3B266C94.ECAE9B96@gsyc.escet.urjc.es> From: FJ Ballesteros X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] alarms and suspend: forget my previous mail Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 21:25:08 +0200 After thinking it twice, I think it's probably better to let the app that cares about a "resuming alarm" do something like echo resume time >/dev/apm an keep alarms just as they are. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 04:17:42 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 04:17:42 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 23020 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 04:26:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23016 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 04:26:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 04:26:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B522619A40; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:26:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post.mail.nl.demon.net (post-11.mail.nl.demon.net [194.159.73.21]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 391B619A37 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:25:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [195.11.248.215] (helo=localhostnl) by post.mail.nl.demon.net with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 159tmt-000DsG-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 19:25:15 +0000 Received: from wstan by localhostnl with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 159vZQ-0000HH-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 21:19:28 +0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] unfair? Message-ID: <20010612211928.A988@localhostnl.demon.nl> References: <20010612185001.98E8D19A43@mail.cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010612185001.98E8D19A43@mail.cse.psu.edu>; from dhog@plan9.bell-labs.com on Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 02:49:58PM -0400 From: William Staniewicz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 21:19:28 +0000 I sure do miss those Sabrett's hot dogs... On Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 02:49:58PM -0400, David Gordon Hogan wrote: > > For that matter, there are more guys selling hot dogs on 5th ave, but > > the idea of anyone being hotdogged to death is just, well, gross. > > But it might be ok if they were bunned to death, particularly around 23rd st. -- Bill William Staniewicz Amsterdam, NL From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 04:31:43 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 04:31:43 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 23119 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 04:40:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23115 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 04:40:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 04:40:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3D55619A3C; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:40:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (aragon.noos.net [212.198.2.75]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A7300199DC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:39:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 1515836 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jun 2001 19:34:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.75 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 12 Jun 2001 19:34:07 -0000 Message-ID: <117c01c0f376$825c6e40$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010612162618.EYIR1645.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@moe> Subject: Re: [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag and I can't get out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 21:33:08 +0200 > I've done HTTP, FTP, and RTSP in ksh-88... oh, well. that is sick. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 04:33:43 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 04:33:43 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 23147 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 04:42:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23143 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 04:42:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 04:42:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E91819A47; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:42:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (aragon.noos.net [212.198.2.75]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 044DB19A42 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:41:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 1752244 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jun 2001 19:39:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.75 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 12 Jun 2001 19:39:25 -0000 Message-ID: <118d01c0f377$401c7b00$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010612170203.GISH1645.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@moe> Subject: Re: [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag and I can't get out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 21:38:26 +0200 > I think this is off-topic now. you can run, but you can't hide. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 04:52:45 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 04:52:45 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 23309 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 05:01:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23305 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 05:01:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 05:01:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 11E6B19A3B; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:01:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (verlaine.noos.net [212.198.2.73]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5813019A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:00:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 1330007 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jun 2001 20:00:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.73 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 12 Jun 2001 20:00:24 -0000 Message-ID: <11d101c0f37a$2e7f7ac0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200106111610.SAA18053@boris.cd.chalmers.se> <200106121845.OAA24604@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] unfair? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 21:59:25 +0200 > The joke was that you had said you'd be stoned to death with PCMCIA > modems walking down 5th ave, but there are far more guys selling fake > Rolex's (lately, swiss army watches too...Who knew?) and ripped off > movies on VHS than guys selling computer parts. i never limited it to people selling them. PCMCIA modem 'ticker tape' parade? there's a lotta offices out there with a lotta laptops. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 04:58:48 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 04:58:48 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 23373 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 05:07:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23369 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 05:07:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 05:07:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E255E19A42; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:07:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (lafontaine.noos.net [212.198.2.72]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 38701199DC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:07:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 630220 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jun 2001 20:06:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.72 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 12 Jun 2001 20:06:59 -0000 Message-ID: <120201c0f37b$19e7c300$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3B266C94.ECAE9B96@gsyc.escet.urjc.es> Subject: Re: [9fans] alarms and suspend: forget my previous mail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 22:06:00 +0200 > echo resume time >/dev/apm > > an keep alarms just as they are. sounds like a plan. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 06:00:42 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 06:00:42 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 23953 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 06:09:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23949 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 06:09:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 06:09:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0BFC819A44; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 17:09:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (einstein.ssz.com [204.96.2.99]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8FB8319A39 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 17:08:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA32310 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:13:30 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: <0ffa01c0f340$918c6e50$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:13:30 -0500 (CDT) On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Boyd Roberts wrote: > > >> Yes, "Do you 'get it'?" > > err, i think the 'uncertainty principle' posting was a... > joke. ok? Which is relevant to art being science how? -- ____________________________________________________________________ "...where annual election ends, tyranny begins;" Thomas Jefferson & Samuel Adams The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 06:41:44 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 06:41:44 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 24289 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 06:50:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24285 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 06:50:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 06:50:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2B03619A39; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 17:50:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 80B8E199DC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 17:49:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19203 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 17:49:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id RAA26513; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 17:49:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200106122149.RAA26513@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer scienscience Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <20010612150943.1AD92199E9@mail.cse.psu.edu> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 17:49:17 -0400 (EDT) In article <20010612150943.1AD92199E9@mail.cse.psu.edu> you write: >With programming, constraints that helped. I inherited >a course at Princeton from Rob. The thing I liked the best about >it was an assignment he gave to write a shell. The constraint was >in the size of the shell. We said what it was supposed to do (no >job control) and took points off for programs exceeding the size >limits. I reviewed the best solutions with the students. Hmm, imposing constraints on people, thereby forcing them to think about the problem, (or expecting them to, as Laura put it) seems to be a common thread. Aside from Anthony's comment about brainwashing (2 + 2 = Plan 9?), I suspect that, coupled with examples of good style, might be the most effective way to teach good thought patterns. >But when it comes down to it, the real challenge is imparting some >flavor of your taste to the students by example or by the application >of grades. Oh, I don't know about grading based on one's personal taste; that seems limiting to me. We want to teach people a perspective, but more importantly to think about the problems for themselves. If we mold them in our own *style* (as opposed to way of thinking about the problem), don't we potentially cut off whole new directions for solutions? On the other hand, if we don't impose some limits on taste, we run into the risk of people doing blatantly offensive things. Where's the middle ground? The humanities have been struggling with this for centuries. We (computer scientists) have existed for a scant 50 years, in comparison. Jon Bentley gave a good example of this in one of the Programming Pearls books; he gave an assignment to write something, I don't know what, exactly, perhaps binary search. Two students turned in 10 *page* programs. He had a great quote, something along the lines of, ``Turning a 5 line program into a 10 page one was just too much to award a passing grade.'' [sic] >Some rules help, as long as you can get them to understand >that the rules are guidelines and not hard. If you're lucky you can >do it in such a way that doesn't cramp originality on their part. Yes, exactly.... >I've also found it useful to review Plan 9 code and Unix code with >them. That way they can see different solutions for the same >problems. I actually find things like the toy operating system >more harmful than helpful. They come away understanding some of >the concepts, perhaps better than reading them in a book, but >totally lose the perspective of the size of the problems and >the necessity to be careful with minutia. The same is undoubtedly true for compilers. Still, there's an excitement factor for an undergraduate to see his or her OS project run which is lost when studying a larger system. >All this is very interaction intensive. It's easy if you're a hired >gun doing one course and then running back to your real life. I >couldn't imagine keeping it up semester after semester. Yes; it seems that it would be rather grueling. However, I think that's the difference between folks who are excited by teaching and those who are excited about research. Hmm, perhaps excited is too weak; passionate would be a better word. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 07:01:41 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 07:01:41 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 24459 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 07:10:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24455 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 07:10:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 07:10:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4701E19A40; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:10:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 15E9F19A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:09:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA21255 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:09:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id SAA26597; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:09:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200106122209.SAA26597@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] unfair? Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <11d101c0f37a$2e7f7ac0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> References: <200106111610.SAA18053@boris.cd.chalmers.se> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:09:58 -0400 (EDT) In article <11d101c0f37a$2e7f7ac0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> you write: >i never limited it to people selling them. > >PCMCIA modem 'ticker tape' parade? there's a lotta offices out >there with a lotta laptops. Okay, I've have to drop the professional pretense for a minute and act like I'm at home. This is way, WAY, off topic now. I won't post any more in the thread because we're just joking around now, but, just to give you a taste of local life.... ;-) Whadaya think this is Brooklyn or something? Ticker tape parade? What, are you one of the Yankee's you think they'd care? Those'd be bricks, anyway, so fuggedaboudit (for the Yankees in Brooklyn, too!). Now, LES, that'd be a different story. But 5th ave? C'mon. Don't be stupid; you'd be one hell of a shlemazel if you got hit by a PCMCIA modem on 5th ave. Ketchup is another story. - Dan ``Bring back the Dodgers!'' C. (Oh yeah, quit kvetching about the Sarbett's hotdogs, too, wstan; they're terrible. Hebrew National or Nathans, take your pick. Okay, Papaya King or Gray's, too. I can send you some; do you want for that?) (ps- Actually, I kind of like the Yankees, but I'm not from Brooklyn, so I'm allowed. The Mets; they broke my heart.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 07:07:42 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 07:07:42 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 24518 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 07:16:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24514 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 07:16:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 07:16:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB74019A48; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:16:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 47E8719A42 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:15:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA21737 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:15:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id SAA26634; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:15:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200106122215.SAA26634@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] unfair? Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <20010612185001.98E8D19A43@mail.cse.psu.edu> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:15:06 -0400 (EDT) In article <20010612185001.98E8D19A43@mail.cse.psu.edu> you write: >> For that matter, there are more guys selling hot dogs on 5th ave, but >> the idea of anyone being hotdogged to death is just, well, gross. > >But it might be ok if they were bunned to death, particularly around 23rd st. Depends on the Avenue. Personally, death by hotdog paraphenalia doesn't seem that auspicious to me. >(Hail Eris!) Sure you weren't in Union Square two days ago? :-) - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 07:08:49 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 07:08:49 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 24528 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 07:17:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24524 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 07:17:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 07:17:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8867A19A52; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:17:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (aragon.noos.net [212.198.2.75]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE4C319A4B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:16:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 1940471 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jun 2001 22:16:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.75 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 12 Jun 2001 22:16:58 -0000 Message-ID: <001101c0f38d$41eb4590$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200106111610.SAA18053@boris.cd.chalmers.se> <200106122209.SAA26597@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] unfair? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 00:15:58 +0200 > ... you'd be one hell of a shlemazel if you got hit by a > PCMCIA modem on 5th ave. i dunno. it would probably be supported by plan 9. i wonder what the terminal velocity of a PCMCIA card is? enquiring minds want to know (i can believe i typed that). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 07:20:43 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 07:20:43 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 24656 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 07:29:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24652 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 07:29:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 07:29:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6682419A53; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:29:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (mta05-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.45]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9AE2019A34 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:28:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010612222821.RMHG4151.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 23:28:21 +0100 Message-ID: <007401c0f38e$daa89200$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200106111610.SAA18053@boris.cd.chalmers.se> <200106122209.SAA26597@augusta.math.psu.edu> <001101c0f38d$41eb4590$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> Subject: Re: [9fans] unfair? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 23:27:24 +0100 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 11:15 PM Subject: Re: [9fans] unfair? > > ... you'd be one hell of a shlemazel if you got hit by a > > PCMCIA modem on 5th ave. > > i dunno. it would probably be supported by plan 9. i wonder > what the terminal velocity of a PCMCIA card is? 100Mbps From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 07:43:42 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 07:43:42 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 24824 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 07:52:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24820 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 07:52:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 07:52:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 70EC519A54; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:52:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (verlaine.noos.net [212.198.2.73]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5EC4219A48 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:51:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 1433783 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jun 2001 22:51:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.73 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 12 Jun 2001 22:51:41 -0000 Message-ID: <003101c0f392$1b65b900$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200106122149.RAA26513@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer scienscience MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 00:50:41 +0200 > Jon Bentley gave a good example of this in one of the Programming > Pearls books; he gave an assignment to write something, I don't know > what, exactly, perhaps binary search. in the 2nd ed you'll find it in column 12, as problem 6 (the footnote explains the story): I assigned the problem of generating sorted subsets ... page 130. the acm had it on some special offer so i just bought it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 07:54:43 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 07:54:43 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 24944 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 08:03:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24940 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 08:03:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 08:03:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8AF1519A58; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 19:03:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 37C3119A41 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 19:02:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Jun 12 19:02:34 EDT 2001 Received: from oemcomputer ([129.78.115.67]) by plan9; Tue Jun 12 19:02:32 EDT 2001 Message-ID: <026501c0f393$fe88e3a0$43734e81@oemcomputer> From: "rob pike" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010612170849.8235219A02@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag and I can't get out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 19:04:08 -0400 You can do something closer to the inferno read 200 with something along the lines of syscall -o read 0 200 buf >[2] /dev/null -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 08:06:43 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 08:06:43 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 25057 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 08:15:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25053 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 08:15:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 08:15:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 576A519A42; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 19:15:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (einstein.ssz.com [204.96.2.99]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5BFC919A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 19:14:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA00242 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:19:30 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: <003101c0f392$1b65b900$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer scienscience Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:19:30 -0500 (CDT) How to teach people to learn, to like to solve problems? A major component is our social environment. Most folks believe something along the following, "Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% persperation" T.A. Edison When we should be teaching them, "If Mr. Edison had thoght clearer, he wouldn't have had to sweat so much" Nikola Tesla -- ____________________________________________________________________ "...where annual election ends, tyranny begins;" Thomas Jefferson & Samuel Adams The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 17:30:45 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 17:30:45 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 6868 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 17:39:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6864 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 17:39:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 17:39:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AB32419A42; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 04:39:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from haddock.cd.chalmers.se (haddock.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 833F1199ED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 04:38:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (boris.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.21]) by haddock.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA13120; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:37:57 +0200 (MET DST) From: Laura Creighton Received: (from lac@localhost) by boris.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3/8.8.7) id KAA06847; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:37:56 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200106130837.KAA06847@boris.cd.chalmers.se> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: lac@cd.chalmers.se Subject: [9fans] passionate about research or about teaching Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:37:56 +0200 (MET DST) Some people manage to be both. I am solidly more a researcher, indeed I worry if I should be let around students at all. On the other hand, the truly odd ducks were the ones that taught me the most in my life, so perhaps a bit of me is a fine idea. My mother, on the other hand, is in my admittedly biased opinion, the single best teacher of 10-18 year olds on the planet. And the students agree. One year, a school she was at which had 9 second form classes allowed, for some reason, the students to select which teacher to have. and of roughly 270 students, 245 or so wanted my mother. This was a complete revelation to her, and so they had a special meeting where they put her int he auditorium with all the students and she asked them ``why?'' ``why did they want _her_''. And aside from the people who said, `my brother had you as a teacher and he said you were the best teacher he ever had' and the like, there were 2 answers. The first is that my mother is resoundingly authentic. There is absolutely no pretense and phoniness with her, and the students have an unfailing ear for the phoney. So they said things like `you might be wrong, but we know that you won't be lying.' and `you said that you were wrong yesterday once.' and things like that which I gather are novel things in their experience. The other thing that she does is treat students with respect. I think the expression `you have to earn respect around here' is one of the all time evil sentences on the planet. My mother's students were willing to move heaven and earth for her, and even do the more difficult task of thinking about their homeworks, because of little things like `saying excuse me when she bumped into them in the hall' and `you held the door open for me when I was carrying a lot of books once' and `you never once cut in front of me in the cafeteria line.' My experience, like hers, is that if you consistently treat people with respect, NOT toadying, but genuine respect, they immediately try to shape up into the sort of people that are worthy of respect. At any rate, having founders of a start up company who start meetings with things like `I apologize that my disgraceful preoccupation with private matters has caused all of you to lose 15 minutes of valuable time this morning' has helped make people who really think that their time should be spend doing something valuable. This trick may only work in Sweden, and Japan, and other places where individualism is not the order of the day. When I was last in the USA I took a good look at the youth, and while they appeared to have many problems, inappropriate humility, and over-concern for the face and the feelings of their fool elders did not appear to be prominent among them. I must go to a meeting or I will have to say that AGAIN Laura From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 18:26:41 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 18:26:41 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 8283 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 18:35:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8279 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 18:35:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 18:35:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A9A2D19A48; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 05:35:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.92]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 60859199ED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 05:34:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hamnavoe.demon.co.uk ([158.152.225.204] helo=hamnavoe) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15A72J-000GDI-0Y for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:34:06 +0100 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] the computing press [was ... wet paper bag ...] From: Richard Miller MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:24:50 0100 > i suspect we are more worried about ending up in the computing press > with ``vita nuova provides evil crackers with yet another nasty gateway into ...''. One could argue that bad publicity is better than no publicity at all. The blindness of the computing press towards Plan 9 and Inferno is depressing. Take, for example, this article - http://www.business2.com/magazine/2001/06/java_renaissance.htm which claims that "Java is unparalleled as a language for distributed applications because it was built around Internet protocols, rather than bolting them on, and is more secure than firewalls alone when a networked machine needs to access remote resources or "share" resources remotely." and that "For all its problems, Java is still the leader in cross-device interoperability, running on everything from servers to cell phones and set-tops. If a programmer wants to write code to run on multiple devices, the only other choice on the horizon is Microsoft's promised .NET architecture, which is still a long way off. " A few lurid cracker stories might at least make journalists aware of our existence. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 19:57:39 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 19:57:39 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 9959 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 20:06:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9955 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 20:06:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 20:06:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7EEC819A42; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 07:06:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 64C19199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 07:05:06 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] alarm handling and suspended machines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010613110506.64C19199E3@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 23:27:34 -0400 we were about to do that on the pc's for a different reason. The mechanism should extend to the other architectures. I've got to figure out how to restart time when the fast clock stops running. I can do a quick guess from the rtc and then use ntp to do the rest but the timesync process will have to know when the cycle clock becomes meaningless. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 20:08:42 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 20:08:42 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 10066 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 20:17:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10061 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 20:17:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 20:17:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9FC4D19A4B; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 07:17:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 6FC8F199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 07:16:57 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] alarm handling and suspended machines From: F.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-dvzaayzylcyhappagcvincaqjl" Message-Id: <20010613111657.6FC8F199E3@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:27:14 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-dvzaayzylcyhappagcvincaqjl Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In any case, I now think that it would be better to prevent alarm(2) from resuming a suspended machine; otherwise the user would need to be careful not to start any periodic-alarm program (listen, etc.). By the way, I have just compiled a kernel that has /dev/resume and allows a write to set up a wake up timer. My problem now is that the bitsy is ignoring the RTC alarm I set. I'm trying to see what I did wrong... One thing I think we need is to unify the apm interface. It would be nice to have a single set of files in /dev supplying the interface to suspend/resume/battery status. Right now my stats has to try twice to display the battery status, since it has to work both with /mnt/apm and with /dev/battery. Any plans on this? --upas-dvzaayzylcyhappagcvincaqjl Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (postfix@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by gsyc.escet.urjc.es (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA03936; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:06:29 +0200 X-Authentication-Warning: gsyc.escet.urjc.es: Host postfix@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6] claimed to be mail.cse.psu.edu Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7EEC819A42; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 07:06:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 64C19199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 07:05:06 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] alarm handling and suspended machines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010613110506.64C19199E3@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 23:27:34 -0400 we were about to do that on the pc's for a different reason. The mechanism should extend to the other architectures. I've got to figure out how to restart time when the fast clock stops running. I can do a quick guess from the rtc and then use ntp to do the rest but the timesync process will have to know when the cycle clock becomes meaningless. --upas-dvzaayzylcyhappagcvincaqjl-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 20:57:40 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 20:57:40 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 10741 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 21:06:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10737 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 21:06:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 21:06:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E3EF319A4B; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 08:06:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lucky.intranet (080.pool01.adsl.mel.iprimus.net.au [203.134.171.80]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5EA58199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 08:05:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from telegraphics.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lucky.intranet (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05781 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 22:05:36 +1000 Message-ID: <3B275710.2F9D4A85@telegraphics.com.au> From: Toby Thain Organization: http://www.telegraphics.com.au/ (Melbourne, Australia) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.18-4hpmac ppc) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer scienscience References: <20010612003610.3980A199E9@mail.cse.psu.edu> <200106121454.KAA08032@augusta.math.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 22:05:36 +1000 Dan Cross wrote: > > In article <20010612003610.3980A199E9@mail.cse.psu.edu> you write: > > [...] > > > >This means that we have a hard time imparting anything > >from generation to generation that can really be useful > >except for how to reason about problems. > > But knowing how to reason about the problem is a good 75% of the battle > (if not more). When I was 20 years old, I read, ``The Elements of > Programming Style,'' first edition. The book is older than I am, but > it _profoundly_ influenced how I thought and worked, Amen to that. I had occasion to quote it a couple of nights ago: "Do not sacrifice clarity for small gains in 'efficiency' " Toby From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 21:00:39 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 21:00:39 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 10784 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 21:09:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10780 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 21:09:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 21:09:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 76BEA19A4E; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 08:09:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (unknown [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3146519A4C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 08:08:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id OAA22930 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:02:29 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] alarm handling and suspended machines Message-ID: <20010613140227.R19016@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20010613110506.64C19199E3@mail.cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <20010613110506.64C19199E3@mail.cse.psu.edu>; from presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com on Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 11:27:34PM -0400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:02:28 +0200 On Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 11:27:34PM -0400, presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > > we were about to do that on the pc's for a different reason. The > mechanism should extend to the other architectures. I've got to > figure out how to restart time when the fast clock stops running. > I can do a quick guess from the rtc and then use ntp to do the > rest but the timesync process will have to know when the > cycle clock becomes meaningless. The first step should presumably be to update the RTC on shutting down, or is it kept up to date by timesync? I get often irritated by alarm clocks that sync to the mains until failure, then switch to the stand-by battery powered clock and in all devices I have had to deal with, inevitably race way ahead. By the time you get to correct it you have to trip right around 24 hours (or somewhat less). Point is, if the clock manufacturers all have a good reason to adopt such an annoying approach, one would similarly hope the RTC is very exact (I have some interesting spread of accuracy in my office) or fast. I know I often overlook the obvious: in this case I don't quite get the issue with the timesync? If it's got to do with noticing that the fast clock has been shut down, you may want timesync to do the shutting down itself, in some safe fashion. I assume that is not impossible. ++L PS: I'm sure I missed something obvious, yet again, but I may never find out what it is if I don't ask, this mailing list is often extremely cerebral :-( From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 21:14:40 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 21:14:40 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 10960 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 21:23:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10956 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 21:23:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 21:23:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 520A019A54; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 08:23:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (mta03-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.43]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EDC0A19A51 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 08:22:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010613122218.RVRL283.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:22:18 +0100 Message-ID: <001701c0f403$7ce4e9f0$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer scienscience MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:22:18 +0100 for a quick summary http:/www.proweb.co.uk/~matt/TheElementsofProgrammingStyle.htm From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 22:04:40 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 22:04:40 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 11427 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 22:13:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11423 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 22:13:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 22:13:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9FCAE19A57; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:13:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id D7A7619A12 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:12:20 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] alarm handling and suspended machines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010613131220.D7A7619A12@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:12:18 -0400 The rtc's on the pc's are pretty good. They are clearly as good a starting point as anything else. They only give second time which is a bit of a pain if you're trying to sync machines to the millisecond but they make a good last resort time. For a real clock on the different systems, we use the cycle clock if there is one and use NTP measurements to calculate the frequency and drift of that clock. This an work well, on our servers we can stay synced to within .0001 seconds by just doing 1 ntp query an hour. When we do measurements that are time critical, we can keep within .000001 seconds if we have to. On the bitsy, I've been ignoring the real time clock till you got power management working because the bottom switch resets the RTC. However, this scheme loses on systems that vary their cycle speed for power management. Timesync can never get a handle on the clock speed. I need a way to fix that, perhaps using the HZ timer on those systems instead of the cycle counter. On systems that stop or reset the cycle counter when they sleep, I need some way to get that info to timesync so that it doesn't avg over the off time. In addition, on PC's we dual boot. Microsoft, in their infinite wisdom, keep the RTC on local time rather than GMT. In addition, they handle their own clock jumps for daylight savings time. That means that whenever we boot Plan 9, we have to guess at what time the RTC is telling us. My biggest problem is the cycle clock changing speed. I should be able to use either the RTC or the interval timer to decide if the cycle timer is changing freq and act accordingly. Timesync can do that if it can read all three. I also need to tell the kernel which timer to use to base time on. I may also have the kernel leave a flag in /dev/*time to tell things like timesync that something has happened and that it should recalibrate. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 22:45:39 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 22:45:39 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 11850 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 22:54:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11846 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 22:54:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 22:54:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D184E19A58; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:54:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B7BE719A50 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:53:25 -0400 (EDT) From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] alarm handling and suspended machines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-gnpnintjqlrifppoltzfixwfve" Message-Id: <20010613135325.B7BE719A50@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:53:22 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-gnpnintjqlrifppoltzfixwfve Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think of /mnt/apm as temporary until we figure out the right way to handle the interface and the driver itself (and perhaps avoid the clumsy BIOS calls as well). Russ --upas-gnpnintjqlrifppoltzfixwfve Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Jun 13 07:17:25 EDT 2001 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Wed Jun 13 07:17:23 EDT 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CB61B19A48; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 07:17:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 6FC8F199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 07:16:57 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] alarm handling and suspended machines From: F.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-dvzaayzylcyhappagcvincaqjl" Message-Id: <20010613111657.6FC8F199E3@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:27:14 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-dvzaayzylcyhappagcvincaqjl Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In any case, I now think that it would be better to prevent alarm(2) from resuming a suspended machine; otherwise the user would need to be careful not to start any periodic-alarm program (listen, etc.). By the way, I have just compiled a kernel that has /dev/resume and allows a write to set up a wake up timer. My problem now is that the bitsy is ignoring the RTC alarm I set. I'm trying to see what I did wrong... One thing I think we need is to unify the apm interface. It would be nice to have a single set of files in /dev supplying the interface to suspend/resume/battery status. Right now my stats has to try twice to display the battery status, since it has to work both with /mnt/apm and with /dev/battery. Any plans on this? --upas-dvzaayzylcyhappagcvincaqjl Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (postfix@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by gsyc.escet.urjc.es (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA03936; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:06:29 +0200 X-Authentication-Warning: gsyc.escet.urjc.es: Host postfix@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6] claimed to be mail.cse.psu.edu Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7EEC819A42; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 07:06:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 64C19199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 07:05:06 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] alarm handling and suspended machines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010613110506.64C19199E3@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 23:27:34 -0400 we were about to do that on the pc's for a different reason. The mechanism should extend to the other architectures. I've got to figure out how to restart time when the fast clock stops running. I can do a quick guess from the rtc and then use ntp to do the rest but the timesync process will have to know when the cycle clock becomes meaningless. --upas-dvzaayzylcyhappagcvincaqjl-- --upas-gnpnintjqlrifppoltzfixwfve-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 13 23:11:43 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 13 23:11:43 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 12165 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2001 23:20:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12161 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 23:20:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 23:20:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4F3E119A4D; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:20:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 496DF199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:19:27 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] alarm handling and suspended machines From: F.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010613141927.496DF199E3@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 16:29:36 +0200 Perhaps this is a stupid idea, but what could be done is to let each driver than can (rtc, cicle counter, ntp, whatever) implement a #X/time file. Then it would be a matter of binding them in the right order to let the user choose. Regarding how to recover tod after suspends, if one of those drivers knows that it will loose the time after a suspend, it could read the time from another #X/time file to recover. What I dislike about this is that time files would need to be provided by different drivers. What I like is that the user could test -e '#1/time' && bind -b '#1/time' /dev/time test -e '#2/time' && bind -b '#2/time' /dev/time and the #X/time implementation itself could try also to step through a set of preferred time recover sources in very much the same way. Nevertheless, I'm not a time guru and this idea could be just a nonsense. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 14 00:43:47 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 14 00:43:47 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 13021 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Jun 2001 00:52:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13017 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2001 00:52:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Jun 2001 00:52:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF719199FB; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:52:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from presto.hci-net (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id BD91B199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:51:21 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] alarm handling and suspended machines From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010613155121.BD91B199E4@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 16:59:58 +0100 gsyc.escet.urjc.es!nemo wrote: > I'm not a time guru are you then perhaps a Time Lord? inquiring minds wish to know. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 14 00:51:41 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 14 00:51:41 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 13146 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Jun 2001 01:00:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13142 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2001 01:00:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Jun 2001 01:00:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9E35519A4D; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:00:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0169E199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:59:43 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] alarm handling and suspended machines From: F.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-hokayawabrzkkbmrcjtvhiibgp" Message-Id: <20010613155943.0169E199E4@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 18:09:57 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-hokayawabrzkkbmrcjtvhiibgp Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm not even a Lord of my RTC chip, which refuses to interrupt my cpu even though I keep on asking it to do so. It's weird, I write 0x4 to the status register (to ask for an interrupt to be sent), and when I print that register on the next line of code, it keeps on printing `0'. sic. --upas-hokayawabrzkkbmrcjtvhiibgp Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (postfix@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by gsyc.escet.urjc.es (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id RAA11374; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 17:52:43 +0200 X-Authentication-Warning: gsyc.escet.urjc.es: Host postfix@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6] claimed to be mail.cse.psu.edu Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF719199FB; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:52:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from presto.hci-net (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id BD91B199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:51:21 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] alarm handling and suspended machines From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010613155121.BD91B199E4@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 16:59:58 +0100 gsyc.escet.urjc.es!nemo wrote: > I'm not a time guru are you then perhaps a Time Lord? inquiring minds wish to know. --upas-hokayawabrzkkbmrcjtvhiibgp-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 14 02:39:42 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 14 02:39:42 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 13950 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Jun 2001 02:48:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13946 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2001 02:48:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Jun 2001 02:48:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5EC9619A53; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:48:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ducksworth.com (unknown [209.152.156.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 711BA199E1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:47:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (samd@localhost) by ducksworth.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5DHlFo76299 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:47:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sam@ducksworth.com) X-Authentication-Warning: lucifer.ducksworth.com: samd owned process doing -bs From: Sam Ducksworth X-X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] '#P' for apm and arch. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:47:15 -0700 (PDT) i was reading through the device man pages and noticed the device character '#P' is being used for both 'apm' and 'arch'. is this because apm is being thought of as an extention of 'architecture-specific information and control'? just curious. --sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 14 03:12:41 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 14 03:12:41 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 14173 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Jun 2001 03:21:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14169 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2001 03:21:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Jun 2001 03:21:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 54B68199FB; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:21:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from presto.hci-net (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C01D5199C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:20:05 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010613182005.C01D5199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] acme dumping bug Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:28:42 +0100 i've just made a small change that fixes acme's extremely annoying habit of truncating its dump file when its window is deleted. it's probably wrong, but at least it means that when i try to right-button click on a window's border and delete the acme window instead that i don't lose all my current work... the change is in /sys/src/cmd/acme/acme.c:/^shutdown1 change: threadexitsall(msg); to: threadexits(msg); this stops one of the other processes in acme's notegroup from killing the dumping process halfway through its dump. it does mean that you can no longer rely on killing one acme process to kill them all, but i think the trade-off's worth it. BTW it should probably be documented that you can't use qlock() inside a note handler (or is this just a bug?) cheers, rog. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 14 03:19:41 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 14 03:19:41 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 14220 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Jun 2001 03:28:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14216 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2001 03:28:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Jun 2001 03:28:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 01CF819A58; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:28:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 7890C199C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:27:56 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] '#P' for apm and arch. From: Sape Mullender MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-uqfypfeybwhqpzozvaiurlwmwk" Message-Id: <20010613182756.7890C199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:27:53 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-uqfypfeybwhqpzozvaiurlwmwk Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That is correct; the apm files are added to the arch directory, and accessed via the arch device. Sape --upas-uqfypfeybwhqpzozvaiurlwmwk Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Jun 13 13:48:27 EDT 2001 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Wed Jun 13 13:48:26 EDT 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7978B199E1; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:48:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ducksworth.com (unknown [209.152.156.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 711BA199E1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:47:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (samd@localhost) by ducksworth.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5DHlFo76299 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:47:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sam@ducksworth.com) X-Authentication-Warning: lucifer.ducksworth.com: samd owned process doing -bs From: Sam Ducksworth X-X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] '#P' for apm and arch. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:47:15 -0700 (PDT) i was reading through the device man pages and noticed the device character '#P' is being used for both 'apm' and 'arch'. is this because apm is being thought of as an extention of 'architecture-specific information and control'? just curious. --sam --upas-uqfypfeybwhqpzozvaiurlwmwk-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 14 04:30:40 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 14 04:30:40 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 14687 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Jun 2001 04:39:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14683 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2001 04:39:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Jun 2001 04:39:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BF56B19A53; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:39:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ducky.net (gate.ducky.net [199.2.211.252]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 61B5219A4E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:38:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mike@localhost) by ducky.net (8.11.4/8.11.4) id f5DJSlc80897 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:28:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike) From: Mike Haertel Message-Id: <200106131928.f5DJSlc80897@ducky.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] alarm handling and suspended machines In-Reply-To: <20010613110506.64C19199E3@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:28:47 -0700 (PDT) >we were about to do that on the pc's for a different reason. The >mechanism should extend to the other architectures. I've got to >figure out how to restart time when the fast clock stops running. >I can do a quick guess from the rtc and then use ntp to do the >rest but the timesync process will have to know when the >cycle clock becomes meaningless. If by "cycle clock" you mean processor's time stamp counter, using it for time keeping is a Bad Idea. Nowdays there are machines with variable speed processor clocks that get adjusted for power saving reasons. For example, I have a laptop that automatically cuts the clock frequency when the battery drops below 50%, apparently no matter what I do to the power management settings in the BIOS. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 14 05:46:41 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 14 05:46:41 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 15263 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Jun 2001 05:55:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15259 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2001 05:55:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Jun 2001 05:55:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C5C7619A53; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 16:55:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (zola.noos.net [212.198.2.76]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B834199C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 16:54:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 2226537 invoked by uid 0); 13 Jun 2001 20:54:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.76 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 13 Jun 2001 20:54:24 -0000 Message-ID: <03a201c0f44a$e4705c20$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010613131220.D7A7619A12@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] alarm handling and suspended machines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 22:53:26 +0200 > In addition, on PC's we dual boot. Microsoft, in their infinite > wisdom, keep the RTC on local time rather than GMT. yes, that can be really messy. i remember building some stupid dos boot floppy to fix this problem for various un-synced unix machines that had been shutown/moved/booted. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 14 06:01:41 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 14 06:01:41 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 15361 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Jun 2001 06:10:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15357 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2001 06:10:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Jun 2001 06:10:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 50A5A19A59; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 17:10:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (mta06-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.46]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 24E3019A55 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 17:09:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010613210922.DXBC285.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 22:09:22 +0100 Message-ID: <00f401c0f44d$1d00e170$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [9fans] ircbot Chugly comes along Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 22:09:19 +0100 okay here it is I've gone for the eval risk here. I know it's ill advised but this was a demonstration rather than a piece of suggested daily code. I've not used command line parameters either so that the code isn't too cluttered with parameter checking if you copy and paste it, this code won't work because I've used tr to strip the cr character from the input. I've replaced it here with $cr The script will join the irc server and join $defaultchannel. It outputs the tcp dir on stdout It will then output the irc messages on stdout To make it eval some code do : chug command to execute for instance chug cat /usr/matt/bin/rc/chugly will print the source code BUGS If it get's disconnected it prints 'no match' on stderr I've uploaded it in raw to http://www.proweb.co.uk/~matt/chugly.rc #!/bin/rc clonefile = /net/tcp/clone dialstring = 192.168.1.9!6667 # replace with your irc server :) defaultchannel = '#test' botname = Chugly $cr = "\n" # this isn't true it's the cr that I can't type here <[4] $clonefile { netdir=`{basename -d $clonefile} ^ / ^ `{cat /fd/4} echo connect $dialstring to $netdir/ctl echo connect $dialstring >$netdir/ctl || exit 'cannot connect' inchan = no while (~ `{cat $netdir/status} Established*) { line=(`{read}) switch ($line(4)) { case Checking echo USER $botname www.surfnet-is.com irc.server.com ChuglyV1.0 > $netdir/data echo NICK $botname > $netdir/data case :chug oldifs = $ifs ifs=' ' ev = `{echo $line | tr -d $cr | awk '{for(i=5; i<=NF; i++) printf "%s ", $i; printf "\n"}'} for (k in `{eval $ev}) echo PRIVMSG $defaultchannel :$k > $netdir/data ifs = $oldifs } if(~ $line(1) PING) echo PONG $line(2) > $netdir/data if (~ $inchan no) { echo JOIN $defaultchannel > $netdir/data inchan = yes } } echo $line } } < $netdir/data } From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 14 10:48:39 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 14 10:48:39 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19772 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Jun 2001 10:57:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19768 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2001 10:57:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Jun 2001 10:57:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A9B2D19A4D; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 21:57:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (mta03-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.43]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 16ADF199E1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 21:56:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010614015622.INZN283.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 02:56:22 +0100 Message-ID: <010801c0f475$34107a60$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [9fans] bt phonebook Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 02:56:18 +0100 hi you can interrogate (well sort of) the bt phone book with this one if it's called bt then you have to call it : bt initial surname housenumber|housename street town choosing a working example at "random" bt a smith 7 appleby mansfield will output A Smith 7 Appleby Rd New Houghton Mansfield NG19 8SW Nottinghamshire (01623) xxxxxx where xxxxxx is their number (no need to show it here - do it for yourself if you want) BUGS etc. that   is difficult to dial on my phone it's pretty brittle atm. if you get more than one match you've shot it You need to specify values for each field Some towns (like London) offer you a sub-menu to choose the correct district but it's a start. $eq='=' $a='&' $qry=res # =bus for business queries echo `{hget http://www.bt.co.uk/directory-enquiries/dq_home.jsp^'?'QRY$eq$qry$a^`{ hget http://www.bt.co.uk/directory-enquiries/dq_home.jsp | awk 'BEGIN { FS="\"" } /^|<"} /^.*/ {print $9}'} I crunched it into one line for the kudos of the one line solution. The perlies like it that way. I might work on it more later. I needed a break from this god-awful web site project I inherited from some idiot programmer. Lovely gems like exec("mkdir /shops/$storename") where $storename is supplied from a web form! I know I can hardly talk what with my eval but this is in production code on a major UK computer company's website. M@ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 14 17:52:47 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 14 17:52:47 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 30281 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Jun 2001 18:01:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30277 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2001 18:01:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Jun 2001 18:01:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BAFA119A4D; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 05:01:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta.ncst.ernet.in (unknown [202.141.151.15]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8DF94199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 05:00:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from konark.ncst.ernet.in (konark.ncst.ernet.in [202.141.151.1]) by mta.ncst.ernet.in (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5EJPoe12058 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 14:25:50 -0500 Received: from konark.ncst.ernet.in (konark.ncst.ernet.in [202.141.151.1]) by konark.ncst.ernet.in (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA28989 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 14:34:00 GMT From: Jayprasad Hegde To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: <20010613110506.64C19199E3@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] [Q] intel i810 support Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 14:34:00 +0000 (GMT) Hello, I am not able to install Plan 9 on my system. I contacted plan 9 support and they say this has to do with the intel 810 chipset that i am using. Do you have a solution for this ? regards and thanks. -JJH -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Jayprasad J Hegde < Homepage - http://www.ncst.ernet.in/~jjhegde email - jjhegde@ncst.ernet.in ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 14 18:06:43 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 14 18:06:43 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 30621 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Jun 2001 18:15:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30617 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2001 18:15:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Jun 2001 18:15:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A62019A55; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 05:15:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C4965199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 05:14:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 15ASxx-0000md-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:59:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Barry Message-ID: <20010614020335.19148.00003704@ng-fi1.aol.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <200106121541.RAA29551@boris.cd.chalmers.se> Subject: Re: [9fans] How do you teach people to think Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:57:11 GMT "Natural Selection" (a la Darwin) oh, I'm sorry. That merely _Eliminates_ the non-Thinking members of a species..... WARNING: Do not place tongue in light socket. WARNING: Pouring hot coffee down front of own trousers may cause extreme discomfort. You can't MAKE someone think..... Our Constitution accepts stupidity as right. Conversely, [nasty, bitter comments deleted]. Making Nazi-like Death Camps for Stupid People (including those which are too lazy to think) is less than politically correct. ================================================================== Once a proud programmer of Apple II computers, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 14 21:40:38 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 14 21:40:38 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 1570 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Jun 2001 21:49:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1566 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2001 21:49:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Jun 2001 21:49:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A377019A58; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:49:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 37875199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:48:40 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] How do you teach people to think MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010614124840.37875199DD@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:48:38 -0400 WARNING: do not look into laser with remaining eye From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 14 22:02:39 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 14 22:02:39 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 1839 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Jun 2001 22:11:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1835 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2001 22:11:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Jun 2001 22:11:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C3A1619A5C; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:11:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (camus.noos.net [212.198.2.70]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B7D119A58 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:10:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 2848211 invoked by uid 0); 14 Jun 2001 13:10:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.70 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 14 Jun 2001 13:10:47 -0000 Message-ID: <060701c0f4d3$4a8c9d60$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200106121541.RAA29551@boris.cd.chalmers.se> <20010614020335.19148.00003704@ng-fi1.aol.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] How do you teach people to think MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:09:48 +0200 > "Natural Selection" (a la Darwin) € la darwin > ..., he now spends his days > and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers. gee, just like feynman. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 14 23:02:39 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 14 23:02:39 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 2599 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Jun 2001 23:11:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2595 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2001 23:11:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Jun 2001 23:11:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2631C19A5C; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:11:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 5EEAD19A55 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:10:20 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: F.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010614141020.5EEAD19A55@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] ramdisk flash partition size Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 16:20:58 +0200 Any one with an old bootldr in the ipaq could let me know the size of the ramdisk flash partition? thanks in advance From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 00:21:41 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 00:21:41 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 3464 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 00:30:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3460 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 00:30:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 00:30:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F1BD619A5F; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:30:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 685E319A53 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:29:21 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: F.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010614152921.685E319A53@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] bitsy ramdisk question: can't boot my ipaq Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 17:39:14 +0200 Does the ramdisk partition start at 0x00100000? Although I load a sacfs there, 9bitsy panics after a directory checksum error while trying to load the init program. help needed. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 00:53:40 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 00:53:40 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 3795 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 01:02:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3791 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 01:02:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 01:02:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4705419A63; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:02:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C945519A60 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:01:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 15AZN6-0003eZ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 16:49:24 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3B28D6E7.1C955BEE@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200106130837.KAA06847@boris.cd.chalmers.se> Subject: Re: [9fans] passionate about research or about teaching Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:48:53 GMT Laura Creighton wrote: > This trick may only work in Sweden, and Japan, and other places where > individualism is not the order of the day. I don't see any necessary conflict between individualism and respect for others. Indeed, respect for oneself seems to be a prerequisite to authentic respect for others. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 00:57:47 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 00:57:47 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 3837 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 01:06:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3833 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 01:06:36 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 01:06:36 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5056A19A67; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:06:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 78EC819A64 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:05:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 15AZN7-0003eh-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 16:49:25 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3B28D793.E99F9A05@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20010613110506.64C19199E3@mail.cse.psu.edu>, Subject: Re: [9fans] [Q] intel i810 support Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:49:12 GMT Jayprasad Hegde wrote: > I am not able to install Plan 9 on my system. > I contacted plan 9 support and they say this has to do with the intel 810 > chipset that i am using. I don't understand that. I have the 815 chipset, which is quite similar, and although there were some installation problems, they were not due to the chipset. Perhaps you could be more specific about the symptoms? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 01:08:39 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 01:08:39 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 3935 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 01:17:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3931 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 01:17:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 01:17:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 62AD719A6B; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:17:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E105419A68 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:16:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 15AZZk-00040f-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 17:02:28 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3B28D9AE.70B44F44@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200106121541.RAA29551@boris.cd.chalmers.se>, <20010614020335.19148.00003704@ng-fi1.aol.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] How do you teach people to think Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 16:01:51 GMT Barry wrote: > You can't MAKE someone think..... Our Constitution accepts stupidity as > right. Not really. The US Constitution imposes structure on the federal government. Assuming you mean the principles on which the Constitution is based, it would be much more accurate to say that they include the right to make one's own decisions insofar as they don't involuntarily impact on others. That implies stupid decisions as well as smart ones; the mitigating factors are (1) it keeps others from deciding for you what is stupid or smart and (2) so long as you get to suffer the consequences of your decisions, it is a self-correcting system. To the extent that there is currently a problem, it's mostly due to attempts to violate (2). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 01:16:36 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 01:16:36 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 3997 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 01:25:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3993 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 01:25:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 01:25:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 36AE6199EB; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:25:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from haddock.cd.chalmers.se (haddock.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A0608199DC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:24:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (boris.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.21]) by haddock.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA07978; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 18:24:20 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (IDENT:hB9YkuhTOYvZ4n7tPw7FSQ2mAFNx8NI5@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by boris.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA24297; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 18:24:19 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200106141624.SAA24297@boris.cd.chalmers.se> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: lac@cd.chalmers.se Subject: Re: [9fans] passionate about research or about teaching In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:48:53 GMT." <3B28D6E7.1C955BEE@null.net> From: Laura Creighton Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 18:24:16 +0200 Doug Gwyn: >I don't see any necessary conflict between individualism >and respect for others. Indeed, respect for oneself seems >to be a prerequisite to authentic respect for others Oh, very sorry, I was unclear. I know the trick of respecting others works pretty much every where; my mother is implementing it in Ontario after all, and my father has done so all over the world. It is the minor trick of starting meetings that you arrive late at by apologising to everybody for wasting their valuable time which I am not sure translates to all cultures. I could be wrong, but I think that if I tried that in the USA I would run a strong risk of being laughed at, which is not the effect you want if you are trying this. Laura From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 01:23:39 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 01:23:39 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 4052 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 01:32:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4048 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 01:32:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 01:32:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6BB7A199FB; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:32:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C3512199E1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:31:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 15AZoq-0004TC-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 17:18:04 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Andrew Nesbit Message-ID: <%54W6.8596$25.32879@news1.eburwd1.vic.optushome.com.au> Organization: @Home Network Subject: [9fans] Plan9 as a development environment? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 16:17:27 GMT hi... I am interested in doing some experimentation with Plan9. What sort of development environment can one reasonably expect? I know there exists some subset(?) of ISO C, but my question is: what languages have people used under Plan9, and to what degree of success? -Andrew From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 01:24:37 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 01:24:37 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 4067 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 01:33:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4063 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 01:33:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 01:33:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BCEB5199FE; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:33:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from haddock.cd.chalmers.se (haddock.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A4F0199EA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:32:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (boris.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.21]) by haddock.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA08561; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 18:32:07 +0200 (MET DST) From: Laura Creighton Received: (from lac@localhost) by boris.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3/8.8.7) id SAA24382; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 18:32:06 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200106141632.SAA24382@boris.cd.chalmers.se> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: lac@cd.chalmers.se Subject: [9fans] the USA as a self-correcting system Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 18:32:06 +0200 (MET DST) Some incredibly stupid ideas take years to fester before the suffering the consequences part cuts in. People with short attention spans don't know that the bell that is ringing is ringing for them. And lots of people have moved on to ruining other things, leaving somebody else holding the bag, as it were. Laura From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 01:43:37 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 01:43:37 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 4212 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 01:52:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4208 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 01:52:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 01:52:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 898FC199FE; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:52:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 855C9199EB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:51:24 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bitsy ramdisk question: can't boot my ipaq From: Sape Mullender MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ctodjjxjwyemhjanvbpacwunqc" Message-Id: <20010614165124.855C9199EB@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:51:22 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ctodjjxjwyemhjanvbpacwunqc Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, ramdisk starts at 0x00100000 and it's 0x00700000 long. Is your ramdisk too big? Sape --upas-ctodjjxjwyemhjanvbpacwunqc Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Jun 14 11:30:26 EDT 2001 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Jun 14 11:30:25 EDT 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3999319A5E; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:30:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 685E319A53 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:29:21 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: F.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010614152921.685E319A53@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] bitsy ramdisk question: can't boot my ipaq Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 17:39:14 +0200 Does the ramdisk partition start at 0x00100000? Although I load a sacfs there, 9bitsy panics after a directory checksum error while trying to load the init program. help needed. --upas-ctodjjxjwyemhjanvbpacwunqc-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 02:34:38 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 02:34:38 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 4613 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 02:43:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4609 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 02:43:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 02:43:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7832519A04; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:43:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cosym.net (sdsl-64-7-3-116.dsl.nyc.megapath.net [64.7.3.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B08FD199FF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:42:02 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan9 as a development environment? From: anothy@cosym.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20010614174202.B08FD199FF@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:41:18 -0400 plan 9's C dialect (for the most part) consists of a less sophisticated pre-processor and a few extentions to the language proper. the extetions are described breifly on the 2c(1) man page and in more deation in the paper "How to Use the Plan 9 C Compiler" (/sys/doc/comp.ps). Plan 9 also includes a compatability subsystem calle APE, the ANSI/POSIX Environment, which includes a complete(?) ANSI pre-preocssor. the biggest differences you're likely to run into on this level are the libraries. plan 9 provides different libaries for many of the standard functions. and obviously many things - like networking - are done completely differently. again, APE providdes the ANSI/POSIX libraries and many common extentions. as suggested here a few times before, ape may actually be a more exactly conforming ANSI/POSIX environment than many Unix systems. but the prefered development environment is still Plan 9's native environment, which provides access to the native libraries, compiles faster, and results in faster executables. nearly all the C code in the system as distributes (gs and troff are the only exceptions i can think of) are written in Plan 9's C dialect. as far as other languages, people have ported Perl and Python with some success. they are not distributed with the system, and i don't have pointers, but the people who did the work are probably reading this list. there was a C++ compiler in the 2nd edition, but not in the current edition. rc, the shell, is an excelent shell, with many improvements over the bourne shell that make it well-suited to scripting. if you _need_ it, APE provides a mostly-ksh shell (minus the editing modes and history). there's also awk. many people (including me) will tell you that if you're doing applications-level stuff, and you're willing to learn something new, it'd be worth your time to learn Limbo, the programing language in Inferno. Inferno runs on Plan 9, and lots of other platforms, too (various Unixes, Win-32, raw hardware). Limbo is a new language in the C lineage, with great facilities for inter-process communication and multi-threaded, multi-proc development, and a very nice syntax. definatly worth your investigation. the common development environment (in the IDE sense of the term) is Acme, a sort of combination shell, windowing system, and development environment. it's described in the acme(1) man page, and in the paper "Acme: A User Interface for Programmers" (/sys/doc/acme/acme.ps). Acme is available in both the Plan 9 and Inferno distributions. the name of the paper is somewhat misleading - it's quite useful for lots of non-programming tasks, as well. for example, my prefered email client runs in Acme, and i use Acme as my text editor. hope that helps, and good luck with your experimentation. -α. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 05:01:37 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 05:01:37 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 5611 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 05:10:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5607 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 05:10:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 05:10:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AAEBF199FB; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 16:10:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cosym.net (sdsl-64-7-3-116.dsl.nyc.megapath.net [64.7.3.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8BB50199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 16:09:50 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan9 as a development environment? From: anothy@cosym.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20010614200950.8BB50199E4@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 16:09:14 -0400 plan 9's C dialect (for the most part) consists of a less sophisticated pre-processor and a few extentions to the language proper. the extetions are described breifly on the 2c(1) man page and in more deation in the paper "How to Use the Plan 9 C Compiler" (/sys/doc/comp.ps). Plan 9 also includes a compatability subsystem calle APE, the ANSI/POSIX Environment, which includes a complete(?) ANSI pre-preocssor. the biggest differences you're likely to run into on this level are the libraries. plan 9 provides different libaries for many of the standard functions. and obviously many things - like networking - are done completely differently. again, APE providdes the ANSI/POSIX libraries and many common extentions. as suggested here a few times before, ape may actually be a more exactly conforming ANSI/POSIX environment than many Unix systems. but the prefered development environment is still Plan 9's native environment, which provides access to the native libraries, compiles faster, and results in faster executables. nearly all the C code in the system as distributes (gs and troff are the only exceptions i can think of) are written in Plan 9's C dialect. as far as other languages, people have ported Perl and Python with some success. they are not distributed with the system, and i don't have pointers, but the people who did the work are probably reading this list. there was a C++ compiler in the 2nd edition, but not in the current edition. rc, the shell, is an excelent shell, with many improvements over the bourne shell that make it well-suited to scripting. if you _need_ it, APE provides a mostly-ksh shell (minus the editing modes and history). there's also awk. many people (including me) will tell you that if you're doing applications-level stuff, and you're willing to learn something new, it'd be worth your time to learn Limbo, the programing language in Inferno. Inferno runs on Plan 9, and lots of other platforms, too (various Unixes, Win-32, raw hardware). Limbo is a new language in the C lineage, with great facilities for inter-process communication and multi-threaded, multi-proc development, and a very nice syntax. definatly worth your investigation. the common development environment (in the IDE sense of the term) is Acme, a sort of combination shell, windowing system, and development environment. it's described in the acme(1) man page, and in the paper "Acme: A User Interface for Programmers" (/sys/doc/acme/acme.ps). Acme is available in both the Plan 9 and Inferno distributions. the name of the paper is somewhat misleading - it's quite useful for lots of non-programming tasks, as well. for example, my prefered email client runs in Acme, and i use Acme as my text editor. hope that helps, and good luck with your experimentation. -α. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 05:02:38 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 05:02:38 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 5630 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 05:11:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5626 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 05:11:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 05:11:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D73619A08; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 16:11:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Princeton.EDU (postoffice.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.120]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A67FC19A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 16:10:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU (mail.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.14]) by Princeton.EDU (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13420 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 16:10:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from princeton.edu (albion.Princeton.EDU [128.112.234.82]) by smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10430 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 16:10:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B291A41.47519D8F@princeton.edu> From: Martin Harriss Organization: Princeton University CIT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] [Q] intel i810 support References: <20010613110506.64C19199E3@mail.cse.psu.edu>, <3B28D793.E99F9A05@null.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 16:10:41 -0400 "Douglas A. Gwyn" wrote: > > Jayprasad Hegde wrote: > > I am not able to install Plan 9 on my system. > > I contacted plan 9 support and they say this has to do with the intel 810 > > chipset that i am using. > > I don't understand that. I have the 815 chipset, which is quite > similar, > and although there were some installation problems, they were not due to > the chipset. Perhaps you could be more specific about the symptoms? The 815 comes both with and without an intetgrated graphics controller. I believe that the 810 comes only *with*. The problem is presumably unsupported graphics chipset? Martin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 05:30:38 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 05:30:38 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 5812 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 05:39:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5808 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 05:39:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 05:39:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6188019A08; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 16:39:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gsyc.escet.urjc.es (gsyc.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.45]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A4182199ED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 16:38:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gsyc.escet.urjc.es (193-153-96-140.uc.nombres.ttd.es [193.153.96.140]) by gsyc.escet.urjc.es (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id WAA13877 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 22:38:44 +0200 X-Authentication-Warning: gsyc.escet.urjc.es: Host 193-153-96-140.uc.nombres.ttd.es [193.153.96.140] claimed to be gsyc.escet.urjc.es Message-ID: <3B292193.CD27F3E8@gsyc.escet.urjc.es> From: FJ Ballesteros X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bitsy ramdisk question: can't boot my ipaq References: <20010614165124.855C9199EB@mail.cse.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 22:41:55 +0200 Not too big. I was trying at 0x00100000 0x500000 sz. Tomorrow I'll try with that size and length. This is the first time I load a ramdisk with the new bootldr, and it has no ramdisk partition, so I need to create one. thanks a lot! Sape Mullender wrote: > > Yes, ramdisk starts at 0x00100000 and it's 0x00700000 long. > > Is your ramdisk too big? > > Sape > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 07:05:38 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 07:05:38 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 6527 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 07:14:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6523 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 07:14:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 07:14:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3EC2719A09; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 18:14:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (claudel.noos.net [212.198.2.83]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AC5F7199FB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 18:13:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 3417792 invoked by uid 0); 14 Jun 2001 22:12:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.83 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 14 Jun 2001 22:12:59 -0000 Message-ID: <074d01c0f51f$091b9dd0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010614152921.685E319A53@mail.cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [9fans] [b]itsy Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 00:12:00 +0200 i have a contact inside of compaq research. i tried to get him to find me a contact who knew about the [b]itsy (inside of compaq they call it the 'itsy'). the h/w was done at WRL, but he doesn't have much contact with them so no joy. some of the s/w was done at SRC. just about all my other digital/compaq contacts inside of research have quit (just like i did) years ago. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 07:22:41 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 07:22:41 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 6686 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 07:31:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6682 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 07:31:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 07:31:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3AB2B199F7; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 18:31:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (mta06-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.46]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 310AD199E6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 18:30:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010614223000.FGWC285.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 23:30:00 +0100 Message-ID: <003601c0f521$8cf1da00$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010614152921.685E319A53@mail.cse.psu.edu> <074d01c0f51f$091b9dd0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> Subject: Re: [9fans] [b]itsy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 23:30:01 +0100 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Boyd Roberts" > just about all my other digital/compaq contacts inside > of research have quit (just like i did) years ago. phew, I don't think the Boydsy (or is it Berty) would have been a top seller A PDA that says "What did you go and wake me up for, you damn idiot?" and tries to shoot you! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 07:34:42 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 07:34:42 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 6788 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 07:43:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6784 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 07:43:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 07:43:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0A03519A0A; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 18:43:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (zola.noos.net [212.198.2.76]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 82A4619A03 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 18:42:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 2946487 invoked by uid 0); 14 Jun 2001 22:42:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.76 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 14 Jun 2001 22:42:55 -0000 Message-ID: <077101c0f523$37bbf820$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010614152921.685E319A53@mail.cse.psu.edu> <074d01c0f51f$091b9dd0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> <003601c0f521$8cf1da00$6401a8c0@freeze2k> Subject: Re: [9fans] [b]itsy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 00:41:57 +0200 > A PDA that says "What did you go and wake me up for, you damn idiot?" > and tries to shoot you! nah, i have my 'carnet de tir' but won't have my permit to own until september. anyway the rules state that it must be stored in a safe. 'spose i could keep it the crawl space behind the futon. at least it'd be close to hand. actually that's not a bad idea. that's about the last bit of free space in the apartment and it's quasi-well hidden. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 10:27:38 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 10:27:38 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 10302 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 10:36:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10298 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 10:36:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 10:36:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CB8DC199E9; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 21:36:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C4A29199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 21:35:05 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] [b]itsy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010615013505.C4A29199D5@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 21:35:03 -0400 Actually, the itsy was another processor that was done at WRL. The H3600 is a follow up that was done by a group in Australia. In the linux code written by SRC and others, the ifdef's refer to the new model as the bitsy. france@crl.dec.com is very willing to answer questions. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 12:25:40 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 12:25:40 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 13149 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 12:34:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13145 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 12:34:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 12:34:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6C32F199EE; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 23:34:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from honk.eecs.harvard.edu (unknown [140.247.60.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 45A3F199E7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 23:33:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by honk.eecs.harvard.edu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B7DBF3C11C; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 23:33:56 -0400 (EDT) From: William Josephson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan9 as a development environment? Message-ID: <20010614233356.D42635@honk.eecs.harvard.edu> References: <20010614174202.B08FD199FF@mail.cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010614174202.B08FD199FF@mail.cse.psu.edu>; from anothy@cosym.net on Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 01:41:18PM -0400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 23:33:56 -0400 On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 01:41:18PM -0400, anothy@cosym.net wrote: Russ Cox also has a port of Mosml (see www.eecs.harvard.edu/~rsc). -WJ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 12:53:39 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 12:53:39 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 13702 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 13:02:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13698 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 13:02:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 13:02:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CF24C199FD; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 00:02:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.fywss.com (ns.nevex.com [207.245.2.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DBA27199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 00:01:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from steve@localhost) by smtp.fywss.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA08475 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 00:01:02 -0400 From: Steve Kotsopoulos Message-Id: <200106150401.AAA08475@smtp.fywss.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] [reminder] pointer to Plan 9 FAQ Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 00:01:02 -0400 The Plan 9 faq is posted to comp.os.plan9 at the beginning of each month. It is also at news.answers archive sites, look for comp-os/plan9-faq The latest hypertext version of the faq is available at url http://www.fywss.com/plan9/plan9faq.html From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 16:24:40 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 16:24:40 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 18766 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 16:33:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18762 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 16:33:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 16:33:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6CD4D199FD; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 03:33:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 09C19199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 03:32:16 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: F.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010615073217.09C19199E9@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] change to bitsy/devsac.c to use the new bootldr Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 09:28:11 +0200 Hi, To load and use a ramdisk on the bitsy with the new boot loaders you need to change devsac.c: where it said p = (uchar*)Flash_tar+4; it should say now p = (uchar*)Flash_tar; This seems to be due to a change in the bootldr that now has a partition table. So the tar file created in ramdisk now gets placed exactly at 0x100000, not at 0x100004. Beware that this change can make devsac.c fail with previous verions of the bootldr, but you are likely to upgrade it anyway... BTW, you also need to create a ramdisk partition in the bootldr. I'll post in a minute an updated howto file (i.e. Booting101) for the new bootldr. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 16:30:38 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 16:30:38 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 18959 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 16:39:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18954 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 16:39:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 16:39:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EB86E19A09; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 03:39:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 438F019A04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 03:38:24 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] change to bitsy/devsac.c to use the new bootldr From: F.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-uvnohrlonicczlwdmfhedubdgl" Message-Id: <20010615073824.438F019A04@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 09:48:51 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-uvnohrlonicczlwdmfhedubdgl Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Argg, looks like I didn't include the file. Sorry to add more traffic to the list... --upas-uvnohrlonicczlwdmfhedubdgl Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=Booting101 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The bitsy comes with Wince. To get to Plan 9, you will need a serial cable, a Windows machine with a serial interface, the CDROM that comes with the bitsy, and a Plan 9 machine with a serial interface. The Windows machine is used to get the Linux boot loader onto the bitsy (and to save away wince, if you so desire). The Plan 9 machine is used to get the plan 9 kernel and a read only file system onto the bitsy. 0) charge up the bitsy. 1) go to ftp://ftp.handhelds.org/pub/linux/compaq/ipaq/stable/install.html and go through the steps to get the linux boot loader into the flash. This is where you'll need the CDROM and the Windows machine. Roughly the steps are: a) install activesync from the cdrom b) use activesync to copy osloader-1.3.0.exe to wince's fs. c) run osloader-1.3.0.exe. This is a RAM version of the boot loader whose only real function is to put the final version of the boot loader into the flash. d) Optionally select Tools->Flash->Save to make a backup copy of your flash e) Select Tools->Bootldr->Run (screen goes blank) f) In plan 9 use con -b115200 /dev/eia[01] to connect to the bitsy g) hit enter h) load the bootldr-0000-2.14.5 using xms You are adviced to follow the instructions in the install.html file mentioned above, since this is delicate and could turn your bitsy into a paperweight if you fail to install the boot loader properly. This is more than a bit convoluted. Windows runs its applications from flash. The odd dance is to get a windows program (osloader) running from flash to then load a bootldr into ram and jump to it. That bootldr can then destroy the flash since it isn't running there. Finally you copy into the beginning of flash a copy of bootldr that knows it is being started in flash. When you power up the bitsy it starts executing at location 0 in the flash so the `real' bootldr has to live there. The only difference between the first and second bootldr is in initialization. 2) You are now done with wince. Connect the serial cable to a Plan 9 machine. 3) In a plan 9 window (turn on scrolling) con -b115200 /dev/eia[01] You'll have to figure out whether it's 0 or 1 on your machine. 4) Reboot the bitsy by cycling power using the dip switch under the sliding door at the bottom of the bitsy. In the con window, hit spaces. If you don't see the boot> prompt, try with spaces+enter. 5) In the con window type partition reset partition define root 0x80000 0x80000 0x0 partition define ramdisk 0x100000 0x700000 0x0 params save This defines the flash partitions where to load the kernel and the ram disk. 6) In the con window type load kernel 7) in the con window type ctl-\ to get con's >>> prompt. Then !xms /sys/src/9/bitsy/9bitsy This does an xmodem load of the kernel 8) In the con window type load ramdisk 9) in the con window type ctl-\ to get con's >>> prompt. Then !xms /sys/src/9/bitsy/ramdisk This does an xmodem load of the read only file system 10) Cycle power again to reboot. A screen will come up that says root is from [sac]: Just wait a while or hit enter in the con window and it'll continue. 11) The bitsy will now want to calibrate the screen. It'll put up a series of crosses that you should tap the center of. Hold the machine in your hand the way you'ld normally use it or the calibration could be off since there is depth to the glass in the screen. 12) You'll get a new screen with a blank top and a keyboard/scribble area at the bottom. This is a simple one file editor. This file is similar to plan9.ini on PC's. You need to enter a few things: user=your-user-name wavelankey='thekey' When you're done, hit the quit key on the simulated keyboard. The system will now come up as you. 13) To get your password into the system: # auth/iam password: After this you can run cpu, 9fs, whatever... --upas-uvnohrlonicczlwdmfhedubdgl-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 16:31:09 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 16:31:09 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 18984 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 16:40:01 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18972 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 16:39:59 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 16:39:59 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A0D7319A0D; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 03:39:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 7CDFF19A07 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 03:38:26 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: F.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-kiuejapdkywcnsdkrphjlbpceb" Message-Id: <20010615073826.7CDFF19A07@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] how to install the bitsy these days Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 09:40:30 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-kiuejapdkywcnsdkrphjlbpceb Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, to make a long story short, the bootldr used when /sys/src/9bitsy/bitsy/Booting101 was made is unable to suspend the bitsy. This means that you'll have to upgrade bootldr to get more of your on/off button. Do not use version 13 of the bootldr, it hangs the bitsy. I'm using 2.14.5, although the current version 2.14.8 is likely to work (did not test that, though). The file I include here is an updated version of Booting101, to be used after applying the changes to il.s and devsac.c. The quick instructions are just doing a partition reset partition define root 0x80000 0x80000 0 partition define ramdisk 0x100000 0x700000 0 params save with the new bootldr and then install 9bitsy and ramdisk. Ah, forgot to say that you should think twice before doing what this Booting101 suggests, I double checked it to be sure it was what I did, but I make mistakes (many of them ☺). hope this helps --upas-kiuejapdkywcnsdkrphjlbpceb Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline The bitsy comes with Wince. To get to Plan 9, you will need a serial cable, a Windows machine with a serial interface, the CDROM that comes with the bitsy, and a Plan 9 machine with a serial interface. The Windows machine is used to get the Linux boot loader onto the bitsy (and to save away wince, if you so desire). The Plan 9 machine is used to get the plan 9 kernel and a read only file system onto the bitsy. 0) charge up the bitsy. 1) go to ftp://ftp.handhelds.org/pub/linux/compaq/ipaq/stable/install.html and go through the steps to get the linux boot loader into the flash. This is where you'll need the CDROM and the Windows machine. Roughly the steps are: a) install activesync from the cdrom b) use activesync to copy osloader-1.3.0.exe to wince's fs. c) run osloader-1.3.0.exe. This is a RAM version of the boot loader whose only real function is to put the final version of the boot loader into the flash. d) Optionally select Tools->Flash->Save to make a backup copy of your flash e) Select Tools->Bootldr->Run (screen goes blank) f) In plan 9 use con -b115200 /dev/eia[01] to connect to the bitsy g) hit enter h) load the bootldr-0000-2.14.5 using xms You are adviced to follow the instructions in the install.html file mentioned above, since this is delicate and could turn your bitsy into a paperweight if you fail to install the boot loader properly. This is more than a bit convoluted. Windows runs its applications from flash. The odd dance is to get a windows program (osloader) running from flash to then load a bootldr into ram and jump to it. That bootldr can then destroy the flash since it isn't running there. Finally you copy into the beginning of flash a copy of bootldr that knows it is being started in flash. When you power up the bitsy it starts executing at location 0 in the flash so the `real' bootldr has to live there. The only difference between the first and second bootldr is in initialization. 2) You are now done with wince. Connect the serial cable to a Plan 9 machine. 3) In a plan 9 window (turn on scrolling) con -b115200 /dev/eia[01] You'll have to figure out whether it's 0 or 1 on your machine. 4) Reboot the bitsy by cycling power using the dip switch under the sliding door at the bottom of the bitsy. In the con window, hit spaces. If you don't see the boot> prompt, try with spaces+enter. 5) In the con window type partition reset partition define root 0x80000 0x80000 0x0 partition define ramdisk 0x100000 0x700000 0x0 params save This defines the flash partitions where to load the kernel and the ram disk. 6) In the con window type load kernel 7) in the con window type ctl-\ to get con's >>> prompt. Then !xms /sys/src/9/bitsy/9bitsy This does an xmodem load of the kernel 8) In the con window type load ramdisk 9) in the con window type ctl-\ to get con's >>> prompt. Then !xms /sys/src/9/bitsy/ramdisk This does an xmodem load of the read only file system 10) Cycle power again to reboot. A screen will come up that says root is from [sac]: Just wait a while or hit enter in the con window and it'll continue. 11) The bitsy will now want to calibrate the screen. It'll put up a series of crosses that you should tap the center of. Hold the machine in your hand the way you'ld normally use it or the calibration could be off since there is depth to the glass in the screen. 12) You'll get a new screen with a blank top and a keyboard/scribble area at the bottom. This is a simple one file editor. This file is similar to plan9.ini on PC's. You need to enter a few things: user=your-user-name wavelankey='thekey' When you're done, hit the quit key on the simulated keyboard. The system will now come up as you. 13) To get your password into the system: # auth/iam password: After this you can run cpu, 9fs, whatever... --upas-kiuejapdkywcnsdkrphjlbpceb-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 17:33:38 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 17:33:38 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20388 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 17:42:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20384 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 17:42:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 17:42:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EF1EF19A07; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 04:42:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0FABD199F1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 04:41:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 15Aoxs-00016Z-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 09:28:24 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Hermann Samso Message-ID: <9gb55c$gl$1@newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de> Organization: Universitaet Hannover References: <00bb01c0f2d8$304f6060$6401a8c0@freeze2k>, <0dcc01c0f2db$14720430$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> Subject: Re: [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag and I can't get out Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 08:27:07 GMT Boyd Roberts wrote: >> I got this far but of course (I can say that now) >> the `{..} doesn't return until $netdir/data sends an eof >> and then prints each line > well, obviously. it's a file isn't it? >> so how do i read a line at a time before `{..} closes it's stdout? > write some C program that that reads _unbuffered_ characters > and spits them until it sees 'end of line' (whatever that may be). > you should buffer the output, but _not_ the input. > can't be more than 20 lines of code. > btw: i hope you're dealing with 8 bit chars 'cos latin-1 will > really screw up utf encoded streams that the rest of the > system expects. years ago i wrote (on ultrix) riso [rune > to iso-latin-1] and isor (pronounced eye-sore) filters > so that the unix sam could deal with the few french docs > i had to deal with. With so many snippets of code, everyone could make use of, isn't there any common repository? Or will they allget integrated in time for next release? Ok, there is always Deja News, but... saludos, hermann samso From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 17:34:07 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 17:34:07 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20406 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 17:42:58 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20402 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 17:42:58 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 17:42:58 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B913219A0E; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 04:42:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 46E8C199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 04:41:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 15Aoxs-00016f-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 09:28:24 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Andrew Nesbit Message-ID: Organization: @Home Network References: <20010614200950.8BB50199E4@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan9 as a development environment? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 08:27:28 GMT anothy@cosym.net writes: >hope that helps, and good luck with your experimentation. >-. Thankyou! -Andrew From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 19:35:35 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 19:35:35 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22201 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 19:44:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22197 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 19:44:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 19:44:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AEAA519A0B; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 06:44:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 60A6A199EC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 06:43:46 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: F.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010615104346.60A6A199EC@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] local mp3 decoder for the bitsy Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 12:37:45 +0200 I used ape to compile the linux mad player on the bitsy and it's able to decode mp3 nicely. It uses only fixed point math. Just to let you all know. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 20:09:37 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 20:09:37 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22678 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 20:18:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22674 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 20:18:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 20:18:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 02C7D19A12; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 07:18:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from haddock.cd.chalmers.se (haddock.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E37E7199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 07:17:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (boris.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.21]) by haddock.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA14384; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:16:59 +0200 (MET DST) From: Laura Creighton Received: (from lac@localhost) by boris.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3/8.8.7) id NAA02993; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:16:58 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200106151116.NAA02993@boris.cd.chalmers.se> To: boyd@fr.inter.net Cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] grrrr Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:16:58 +0200 (MET DST) riot downtown. Some of my favourite cafes in the whole world just got burnt and looted. See Fond; Tv€kanten; restaurant guide. Plus other places that are just nice places to drink a glass of wine and read the expatriate newspapers. Bloody imported assholes broke through the riot line, ruined my downtown, looks like a battlefield. Now maybe there is a bomb in the shopping centre. They made it to Stora Theatern, maybe we can't see plays for a while either. Police are hunting rioters, rioters are mounting new demonstration, everything is chaos. I am so pissed. Laura From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 20:11:43 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 20:11:43 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22727 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 20:20:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22710 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 20:20:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 20:20:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9E96C19A15; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 07:20:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from haddock.cd.chalmers.se (haddock.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7634B19A13 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 07:19:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (boris.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.21]) by haddock.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA14437; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:19:15 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (IDENT:dYm6Pru6kXgcy6uqwT7c7aPzL6CYfA4G@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by boris.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA03027; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:19:15 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200106151119.NAA03027@boris.cd.chalmers.se> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: boyd@fr.inter.net, lac@cd.chalmers.se Subject: Re: [9fans] grrrr In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:16:58 +0200." <200106151116.NAA02993@boris.cd.chalmers.se> From: Laura Creighton Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:19:12 +0200 oops, that was just supposed to go to Boyd, not to everybody. Its true though. Laura . From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 20:39:36 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 20:39:36 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 23092 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 20:48:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23088 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 20:48:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 20:48:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2A9AD19A12; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 07:48:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from HKISRV06.teleware.fi (mail.teleware.fi [193.65.76.33]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 34D9D199F3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 07:47:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hkisrv08.teleware.fi ([10.204.2.28]) by HKISRV06.teleware.fi with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.1600); Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:47:39 +0300 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.4417.0 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Inferno plug-in security Thread-Index: AcD1kPofKr3AoR+YTFilnhDmxzEZIw== From: "Anssi Porttikivi" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jun 2001 11:47:39.0415 (UTC) FILETIME=[FA8F1270:01C0F590] Subject: [9fans] Inferno plug-in security Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:47:38 +0300 > like: what happens if someone puts a limbo app on a web page that takes > up no screen space, but dials out and does nefarious things (e.g. > taking part in a DDOS attack). Why don't you just give the plug-in user a simple configuration interface to control what directories the plug in is allowed to access, and in what ways (read/write/etc..)? This configuration could work dynamically and popped up when non-existing directories are trying to be opened during the execution of the plug-in. Any file system "object" which is too liberal in its standard form can be "stacked by"/"inherited to" a new restricted/augmented/modified version. A selection of these can be provided with the plug-in, programmed by the user, or done by a third party, maybe mounted from elsewhere in the network. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 20:46:37 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 20:46:37 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 23172 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 20:55:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23168 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 20:55:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 20:55:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3E23B19A19; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 07:55:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (descartes.noos.net [212.198.2.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0FCFB199F7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 07:54:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 3411778 invoked by uid 0); 15 Jun 2001 11:54:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.74 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 15 Jun 2001 11:54:05 -0000 Message-ID: <0b7401c0f591$be3fd010$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <00bb01c0f2d8$304f6060$6401a8c0@freeze2k>, <0dcc01c0f2db$14720430$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> <9gb55c$gl$1@newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de> Subject: Re: [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag and I can't get out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:53:07 +0200 From: "Hermann Samso" > With so many snippets of code, everyone could make use > of, isn't there any common repository? Or will they > allget integrated in time for next release? > Ok, there is always Deja News, but... oh, but there is. you must have missed the 'why don't we build a common repository' thread. i finally cracked (in desperation) and did this: http://mapage.noos.fr/~repo but about the only thing it's done is to a) proove a point and b) receive mail of the form 'nice page. the first cut was done by hand, the second is automated with a mash-mk mashfile on inferno. the bitsy code should probably go back to 1127. i don't mind adding it too. matt's rc irc bot could be added if he so wishes. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 21:07:36 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 21:07:36 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 23428 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 21:16:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23424 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 21:16:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 21:16:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 421BD19A12; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 08:16:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (descartes.noos.net [212.198.2.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A14C419A12 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 08:15:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 3421163 invoked by uid 0); 15 Jun 2001 12:15:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.74 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 15 Jun 2001 12:15:38 -0000 Message-ID: <0bba01c0f594$c0f2dac0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200106151116.NAA02993@boris.cd.chalmers.se> Subject: Re: [9fans] grrrr MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:14:40 +0200 snipers, that's what you need -- snipers. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 21:10:37 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 21:10:37 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 23476 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 21:19:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23472 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 21:19:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 21:19:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1DFBC19A1E; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 08:19:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from presto.hci-net (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9F1A119A1D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 08:18:08 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Inferno plug-in security From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-vuolnbhlhqhwyfagladilffycy" Message-Id: <20010615121808.9F1A119A1D@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:26:49 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-vuolnbhlhqhwyfagladilffycy Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yes, that's a possible type of approach, but i detect a certain amount of handwaving in your description... restricting the accessible directories, or even read/write access to them, is probably not sufficient. (it couldn't give you selective access to different IP addresses, for example). and there still remains the question of how to deal with module signing (which is necessary, in some form, even if you've got verified Dis, to prevent a module from creating its own Dis module (unverified) and calling that). as i said before, there are some difficult security issues that need to be resolved before we do it, none of which have obvious solutions. cheers, rog. --upas-vuolnbhlhqhwyfagladilffycy Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for rog@vitanuova.com id 992605723:10:18842:5; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 11:48:43 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1018270; 15 Jun 2001 11:48 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4134F19A0C; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 07:48:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from HKISRV06.teleware.fi (mail.teleware.fi [193.65.76.33]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 34D9D199F3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 07:47:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hkisrv08.teleware.fi ([10.204.2.28]) by HKISRV06.teleware.fi with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.1600); Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:47:39 +0300 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.4417.0 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Inferno plug-in security Thread-Index: AcD1kPofKr3AoR+YTFilnhDmxzEZIw== To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jun 2001 11:47:39.0415 (UTC) FILETIME=[FA8F1270:01C0F590] Subject: [9fans] Inferno plug-in security Sender: cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: cse.psu.edu!9fans List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:47:38 +0300 > like: what happens if someone puts a limbo app on a web page that takes > up no screen space, but dials out and does nefarious things (e.g. > taking part in a DDOS attack). Why don't you just give the plug-in user a simple configuration interface to control what directories the plug in is allowed to access, and in what ways (read/write/etc..)? This configuration could work dynamically and popped up when non-existing directories are trying to be opened during the execution of the plug-in. Any file system "object" which is too liberal in its standard form can be "stacked by"/"inherited to" a new restricted/augmented/modified version. A selection of these can be provided with the plug-in, programmed by the user, or done by a third party, maybe mounted from elsewhere in the network. --upas-vuolnbhlhqhwyfagladilffycy-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 21:11:17 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 21:11:17 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 23498 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 21:20:09 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23491 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 21:20:08 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 21:20:08 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1445319A23; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 08:19:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (mta07-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.47]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E676B19A1A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 08:18:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010615121818.IDOO285.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:18:18 +0100 Message-ID: <00fe01c0f595$40b9bb20$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <00bb01c0f2d8$304f6060$6401a8c0@freeze2k>, <0dcc01c0f2db$14720430$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> <9gb55c$gl$1@newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de> <0b7401c0f591$be3fd010$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> Subject: Re: [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag and I can't get out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:18:14 +0100 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 12:53 PM Subject: Re: [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag and I can't get out > From: "Hermann Samso" > > With so many snippets of code, everyone could make use > > of, isn't there any common repository? Or will they > > allget integrated in time for next release? > > Ok, there is always Deja News, but... > > oh, but there is. you must have missed the 'why don't > we build a common repository' thread. i finally cracked > (in desperation) and did this: > > http://mapage.noos.fr/~repo > > but about the only thing it's done is to a) proove a > point and b) receive mail of the form 'nice page. > > the first cut was done by hand, the second is automated > with a mash-mk mashfile on inferno. > > the bitsy code should probably go back to 1127. > i don't mind adding it too. > > matt's rc irc bot could be added if he so wishes. > > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 21:12:04 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 21:12:04 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 23516 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 21:20:56 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23512 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 21:20:55 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 21:20:55 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4ECE719A28; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 08:19:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA1F819A0F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 08:18:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 15AsQy-0007G1-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:10:40 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Gabriel Diaz Message-ID: <3B29F4C0.4060007@ipsoluciones.com> Organization: Clientes_Teleline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] problems setting up CPU Server Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 12:01:00 GMT Hello, I'm setting a CPU server as described in Wiki Page, and the paper present at plan9 homepage (plan9.bell-labs.com) I compiled kernel, make al steps succesfully, but, when i try to telnet (ssh or telnet) to the CPU server, it disconnect me saying: [muchos@pollo muchos]$ telnet 192.168.1.205 Trying 192.168.1.205... Connected to 192.168.1.205. Escape character is '^]'. user: muchos authentication failure Connection closed by foreign host. [muchos@pollo muchos]$ SSH ask me the passwd three times and in the /sys/log/ssh says Bad password: muchos@192.168.1.2 I don't know why telnet don't ask me for the netkey ticket. SSH uses netkey ticket too? Both services are in /rc/bin/services.auth that are trusted services for uax/listen. may be i forget to setup something but i don't know what :? thanks From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 21:33:37 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 21:33:37 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 23769 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 21:42:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23765 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 21:42:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 21:42:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0F45E19A23; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 08:42:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 30DBC19A12 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 08:41:14 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: nemo@gsyc.escet.urjc.es, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] change to bitsy/devsac.c to use the new bootldr MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010615124114.30DBC19A12@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 08:41:11 -0400 Might this be a better change, i.e., so it'll work both with both the old and new bootldr's? p = (uchar*)Flash_tar+4; data = tarlookup(p, sacfs, &i); if(data == 0) { p = (uchar*)Flash_tar; data = tarlookup(p, sacfs, &i); if(data == 0) { print("devsac: could not find file: %s\n", sacfs); return; } } From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 21:48:40 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 21:48:40 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 23929 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 21:57:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23920 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 21:57:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 21:57:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0728419A25; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 08:57:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 5CF95199F0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 08:56:58 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] change to bitsy/devsac.c to use the new bootldr From: F.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-vevowdrhwhhqrwknpfrwmxsanz" Message-Id: <20010615125658.5CF95199F0@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 15:07:29 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-vevowdrhwhhqrwknpfrwmxsanz Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think that would be nice. In fact, I was thinking of just adding a newramdisk: target to the mkfile, w/ something like... cat <{echo -n xxxx} oldramdisk >newramdisk On the other hand, wouldn't it be better to encourage people to use the new boot loader (since otherwise they might break their real power on switch)? Probably you know better than me which option is likely to be more adequate. BTW, I am very grateful to the one(s) who decided that sac.fs would be a tar file. In general, I'm grateful to you all for keeping Plan 9 so clean. It is orders of magnitude easier to modify/adapt it than it is for the other systems I've seen. --upas-vevowdrhwhhqrwknpfrwmxsanz Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (postfix@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by gsyc.escet.urjc.es (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA28097; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:42:32 +0200 X-Authentication-Warning: gsyc.escet.urjc.es: Host postfix@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6] claimed to be mail.cse.psu.edu Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0F45E19A23; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 08:42:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 30DBC19A12 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 08:41:14 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: nemo@gsyc.escet.urjc.es, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] change to bitsy/devsac.c to use the new bootldr MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010615124114.30DBC19A12@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 08:41:11 -0400 Might this be a better change, i.e., so it'll work both with both the old and new bootldr's? p = (uchar*)Flash_tar+4; data = tarlookup(p, sacfs, &i); if(data == 0) { p = (uchar*)Flash_tar; data = tarlookup(p, sacfs, &i); if(data == 0) { print("devsac: could not find file: %s\n", sacfs); return; } } --upas-vevowdrhwhhqrwknpfrwmxsanz-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 21:57:36 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 21:57:36 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 24025 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 22:06:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24021 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 22:06:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 22:06:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ABAB819A28; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 09:06:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6635019A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 09:05:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luchie-chowchows.demon.co.uk ([212.228.100.111]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15AtIB-000P5c-0A for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:05:39 +0000 From: David Lukes To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] grrrr [OT!] X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.29] Content-Type: text/plain References: <200106151116.NAA02993@boris.cd.chalmers.se> <0bba01c0f594$c0f2dac0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> In-Reply-To: <0bba01c0f594$c0f2dac0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01061514045402.00916@luchie-chowchows.demon.co.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:03:18 +0100 On Fri, 15 Jun 2001, you wrote: > snipers, that's what you need -- snipers. Why do you need more than one sniper to kill Dubya? Just tell them to aim for his vital organ: the wallet. Dave. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 22:15:37 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 22:15:37 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 24181 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 22:24:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24177 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 22:24:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 22:24:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DF43519A25; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 09:24:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (lafontaine.noos.net [212.198.2.72]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C3880199F4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 09:23:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 2670988 invoked by uid 0); 15 Jun 2001 13:23:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.72 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 15 Jun 2001 13:23:49 -0000 Message-ID: <001101c0f59e$460e6400$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010615124114.30DBC19A12@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] change to bitsy/devsac.c to use the new bootldr MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 15:22:48 +0200 > Might this be a better change, i.e., so it'll work both with > both the old and new bootldr's? > > p = (uchar*)Flash_tar+4; > data = tarlookup(p, sacfs, &i); why not get it to loop through a table of offets? it'd be cleaner. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 22:27:43 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 22:27:43 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 24328 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 22:36:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24324 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 22:36:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 22:36:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7450119A2A; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 09:36:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from presto.hci-net (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id F3AF819A23 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 09:35:53 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] grrrr From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-pdasiizdmhzwstptqzifajwlqb" Message-Id: <20010615133553.F3AF819A23@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:44:24 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-pdasiizdmhzwstptqzifajwlqb Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit well, you're our resident plan9 sniper... --upas-pdasiizdmhzwstptqzifajwlqb Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for rog@vitanuova.com id 992607577:20:22027:2; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 12:19:37 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2021827; 15 Jun 2001 12:19 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2AC7F19A1C; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 08:16:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (descartes.noos.net [212.198.2.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A14C419A12 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 08:15:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 3421163 invoked by uid 0); 15 Jun 2001 12:15:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.74 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 15 Jun 2001 12:15:38 -0000 Message-ID: <0bba01c0f594$c0f2dac0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> To: References: <200106151116.NAA02993@boris.cd.chalmers.se> Subject: Re: [9fans] grrrr MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: cse.psu.edu!9fans List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:14:40 +0200 snipers, that's what you need -- snipers. --upas-pdasiizdmhzwstptqzifajwlqb-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 22:53:39 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 22:53:39 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 24589 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 23:02:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24583 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 23:02:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 23:02:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 806B519A2D; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:02:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 679BB19A23 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:01:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010615140137.XTPS290.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 15:01:37 +0100 Message-ID: <014201c0f5a3$af6c2b30$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <00bb01c0f2d8$304f6060$6401a8c0@freeze2k>, <0dcc01c0f2db$14720430$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> <9gb55c$gl$1@newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de> <0b7401c0f591$be3fd010$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> Subject: Re: [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag and I can't get out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 15:01:33 +0100 bugger, sorry >but about the only thing it's done is to a) proove a >point and b) receive mail of the form 'nice page. no news is good news? >matt's rc irc bot could be added if he so wishes A basic irc bot that evals commands it's given with the permission & namespace of whoever started it. http://www.proweb.co.uk/~matt/chugly.rc From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 23:18:36 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 23:18:36 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 24852 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 23:27:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24848 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 23:27:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 23:27:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1710119A17; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:27:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (aragon.noos.net [212.198.2.75]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 636AE199FD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:26:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 4040340 invoked by uid 0); 15 Jun 2001 14:26:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.75 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 15 Jun 2001 14:26:19 -0000 Message-ID: <002401c0f5a7$00d07960$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <00bb01c0f2d8$304f6060$6401a8c0@freeze2k>, <0dcc01c0f2db$14720430$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> <9gb55c$gl$1@newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de> <0b7401c0f591$be3fd010$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> <014201c0f5a3$af6c2b30$6401a8c0@freeze2k> Subject: Re: [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag and I can't get out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 16:25:18 +0200 > no news is good news? well, it's better than being the middle of a firefight... err, flamewar. > A basic irc bot that evals commands it's given with > the permission & namespace of whoever started it. > http://www.proweb.co.uk/~matt/chugly.rc ok, will do. i got it down to this as a mashfile: for (i in contrib/*) contrib.html : $i/li.html; */*/li.html :~ $1/$2/url { mash tools/c2li $1/$2 > $0 }; */*/url :~ $1/$2/desc {}; */*/desc :~ $1/$2/from {}; */*/from :~ $1/$2/date {}; *.html :~ $1/0/url { cat $1/*/li.html > $0 }; default: index.html {}; index.html : head.html contrib.html tail.html { cat head.html contrib.html tail.html > index.html }; ---- the contrib directory has directories, named 0...n, which have these files: url desc [description] from date [rfc822/std11 date. it's well known and can be parsed] li.html [this is the html
  • made out of the above files] brucee gave me a bit of a hand, 'cos mash-mk is not mk or make. i think he has a much better and simpler solution to the problem. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 23:28:37 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 23:28:37 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 24985 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 23:37:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24981 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 23:37:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 23:37:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB1E119A20; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:37:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B948219A0E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:36:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 15AuSQ-00030A-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 15:20:18 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3B2A1179.2897211A@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <3B28D6E7.1C955BEE@null.net>, <200106141624.SAA24297@boris.cd.chalmers.se> Subject: Re: [9fans] passionate about research or about teaching Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:18:45 GMT Laura Creighton wrote: > ... I could be wrong, but I think that if I > tried that in the USA I would run a strong risk of being laughed at, While there might be some amusement, if it was an honest expression and not just a trick, I'm sure it would be genuinely appreciated in most US organizations I know of. They all tend to have the same complaints about how management views the work force. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 23:29:15 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 23:29:15 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 24996 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 23:38:07 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24992 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 23:38:07 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 23:38:07 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6DC3319A2D; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:37:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BF92019A0E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:36:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 15AuSR-00030G-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 15:20:19 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3B2A11C3.C361B32E@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20010613110506.64C19199E3@mail.cse.psu.edu>, <3B291A41.47519D8F@princeton.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] [Q] intel i810 support Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:19:12 GMT Martin Harriss wrote: > The 815 comes both with and without an intetgrated graphics controller. > I believe that the 810 comes only *with*. The problem is presumably > unsupported graphics chipset? Aha, well the solution is to disable the on-chip graphics and use a supported graphics card. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 15 23:50:36 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 15 23:50:36 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 25213 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2001 23:59:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25209 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 23:59:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 23:59:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CC47F19A20; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:59:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cosym.net (sdsl-64-7-3-116.dsl.nyc.megapath.net [64.7.3.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id D80D619A0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:58:03 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Paul C Lustgarten MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20010615145803.D80D619A0C@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] Inferno vs. Plan 9 lib/keyboard? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:58:02 -0400 As we work on better integrating the Inferno and Plan 9 family of operating systems, we're uncovering and eliminating various (mostly gratuitous) incompatibilities. One I found last night is in /lib/keyboard - any (good) reason for having two different versions? % diff /lib/keyboard /sys/inferno/lib/keyboard 18,19c18,19 < 00B2 S2 ² superscript digit two < 00B3 S3 ³ superscript digit three --- > 00B2 s2 ² superscript digit two > 00B3 s3 ³ superscript digit three 25c25 < 00B9 S1 ¹ superscript digit one --- > 00B9 s1 ¹ superscript digit one 397,399d396 < 2071 s1 ⁱ superscript digit one < 2072 s2 ⁲ superscript digit two < 2073 s3 ⁳ superscript digit three 412,413d408 < 2013 en – en dash < 2014 em – em dash 429d423 < 20AC e$ € euro symbol 543,544c537 < 2423 ␣ open box, visible space < 263A :) ☺ smiley face --- > 2423 ␣ open box 557,559d549 < F015 ZA  raw alt (plan 9 specific) < F016 ZS  raw shift (plan 9 specific) < F017 ZC  raw ctl (plan 9 specific) % From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 16 00:42:36 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 16 00:42:36 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 25669 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Jun 2001 00:51:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25664 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2001 00:51:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Jun 2001 00:51:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AABF619A28; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 11:51:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cosym.net (sdsl-64-7-3-116.dsl.nyc.megapath.net [64.7.3.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 81C9819A14 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 11:50:07 -0400 (EDT) From: anothy@cosym.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20010615155007.81C9819A14@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] wiki update Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 11:50:03 -0400 i got a few emails from people who liked my post on the Plan 9 development environment, and lac suggested posting it to the Wiki, which i've now done (after cleanup). see: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/50 i also put up a page with a message andrey posted to 9fans a while back about getting Perl working; i'm pretty sure i saw a Python one at around the same time, but couldn't find it. if anyone knows about it, post to the Wiki, please. any other languages, too. oh, and my spelling's usually awful. corrections appreciated. this is my first time using the Wiki. quite nice, russ. good work. thanks. -α. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 16 02:10:36 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 16 02:10:36 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 26469 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Jun 2001 02:19:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26465 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2001 02:19:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Jun 2001 02:19:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1511219A2A; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:19:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2F63119A13 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:18:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010615171830.ZUQ290.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 18:18:30 +0100 Message-ID: <018a01c0f5bf$300b9d00$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [9fans] irc client (maybe server) project looking for contributors Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 18:18:25 +0100 Okay, we're developing the irc thing at work. So while my head is full of irc stuff I'd like to take the opportunity to develop some IRC stuff for plan9 / Inferno. I've done the bot but it was pretty simplistic. I'm inspired to do a client (and I kinda promised ;). Is anyone interested in contributing? Even if it's just at the design and planning stage. I'd welcome anyone's input. I've got plenty of ideas of what I'd like to see. I know I said it'd be Limbo on Inferno but that's not set in stone. Acme strikes me as a good application host for irc which would make it "cross platform" (plan9 AND inferno!) On the other hand I'd like to get to grips with tk on Inferno (and then I might get a free T-Shirt too!) Matt From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 16 03:14:35 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 16 03:14:35 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 26909 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Jun 2001 03:23:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26905 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2001 03:23:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Jun 2001 03:23:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8E57D19A20; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:23:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailhost1.dircon.co.uk (mailhost1.dircon.co.uk [194.112.32.65]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C605A19A15 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:22:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from starfruit.iw3d.co.uk (starfruit.iw3d.co.uk [195.157.148.202]) by mailhost1.dircon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA67812 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 19:22:07 +0100 (BST) Received: from coconut.iwks.multi.local ([10.79.1.54]) by starfruit.iw3d.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 15AyED-0006LT-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 19:21:53 +0100 From: Theo Honohan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] irc client (maybe server) project looking for contributors In-Reply-To: <018a01c0f5bf$300b9d00$6401a8c0@freeze2k> References: <018a01c0f5bf$300b9d00$6401a8c0@freeze2k> X-Mailer: VM 6.89 under 21.1 (patch 13) "Crater Lake" XEmacs Lucid Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 19:27:02 +0100 On Friday 15 June, Matt wrote: > > Okay, we're developing the irc thing at work. So while my head is full of > irc stuff I'd like to take the opportunity to develop some IRC stuff for > plan9 / Inferno. > > I've done the bot but it was pretty simplistic. > > I'm inspired to do a client (and I kinda promised ;). > > Is anyone interested in contributing? > Even if it's just at the design and planning stage. (First of all, I'm not a regular IRC user, so excuse my total lack of clue, and arrogance in making any suggestion at all!) Things that I think could be cool about IRC support on Plan 9: * an ircfs which supported a simple file-based IRC interface, and DCC file transfer in an obvious way. * a "pass-through" ircproxyfs, which would provide detachable proxy functionality (like the existing "dircproxy") using an underlying ircfs. It would be natural for this to provide an IRC server interface to the network, as well as the ircfs interface. * a new implementation of the "Comic Chat" UI concept. This was presented at Siggraph 96. Regardless of how you feel about the usability of the idea, it's a lot of fun to mess around with, and a good demo. http://grail.cs.washington.edu/pub/papers/comics.pdf Microsoft's implementation suffered from a number of problems: * the cartoons looked bad due to poor image resampling algorithms and primitive compositing; a version that produced nicer images would be a good way to show off the new Plan 9 compositing imaging model. (Maybe Rene€ French could be persuaded to produce a character or two...) * the killer: Microsoft Chat produced offensive in-band annotations (hex strings at the beginning of each line) to communicate the emotions and personae of the illustrated characters. It's hard to see how to solve this problem in general. However, within a small community of Comic Chat users, you could provide a kind of IRC proxy server which shared their annotated contributions between its users, and also relayed them, in expurgated form, to the real IRC network. They could then enjoy the benefits(!) of the annotations when they interacted with each other, while still being non-obnoxious participants on a normal IRC network. Of course, you could implement such a proxy by creating another version of ircproxyfs which created and used a number of ircfs clients. Have I suggested enough fileservers yet? I guess rather a lot of that hinges on whether you think Comic Chat is a fun idea or not. I can't imagine using it every day. It has a high wow-factor-to-complexity ratio, though. If it's to be written in limbo, of course, you don't get the new compositing model, so the comic creation side of it is a less attractive job. Theo From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 16 03:19:34 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 16 03:19:34 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 26952 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Jun 2001 03:28:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26948 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2001 03:28:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Jun 2001 03:28:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B8E6819A2D; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:28:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (racine.noos.net [212.198.2.71]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D59E719A21 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:27:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 3569894 invoked by uid 0); 15 Jun 2001 18:27:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.71 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 15 Jun 2001 18:27:41 -0000 Message-ID: <005701c0f5c8$b9124320$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010615133553.F3AF819A23@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] grrrr MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 20:26:40 +0200 i've fired mjr's FAL. gotta try his barrett next time i see him. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 16 03:30:36 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 16 03:30:36 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 27004 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Jun 2001 03:39:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27000 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2001 03:39:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Jun 2001 03:39:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9CA9519A2B; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:39:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (verlaine.noos.net [212.198.2.73]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DF05319A17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:38:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 31682 invoked by uid 0); 15 Jun 2001 18:38:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.73 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 15 Jun 2001 18:38:25 -0000 Message-ID: <007701c0f5ca$38fa2390$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <018a01c0f5bf$300b9d00$6401a8c0@freeze2k> Subject: Re: [9fans] irc client (maybe server) project looking for contributors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 20:37:25 +0200 > I know I said it'd be Limbo on Inferno but that's not set in stone. do it with limbo. string mangling event driven stuff, limbo gets it right. > Acme strikes me as a good application host for irc which would make it > "cross platform" (plan9 AND inferno!) therein lies the road to emacs. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 16 03:34:35 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 16 03:34:35 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 27042 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Jun 2001 03:43:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27038 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2001 03:43:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Jun 2001 03:43:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0A19619A32; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:43:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [130.203.12.17] (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id D0E1C19A2E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:42:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 27412 invoked by uid 991); 15 Jun 2001 18:42:53 -0000 Message-ID: <20010615184253.27410.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] irc client (maybe server) project looking for contributors In-Reply-To: Message from "Boyd Roberts" of "Fri, 15 Jun 2001 20:37:25 +0200." <007701c0f5ca$38fa2390$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:42:53 -0400 | > Acme strikes me as a good application host for irc which would make it | > "cross platform" (plan9 AND inferno!) | | therein lies the road to emacs. Nay, xedit. An editor with an external extension langauge. Way cool. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 16 03:50:34 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 16 03:50:34 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 27140 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Jun 2001 03:59:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27136 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2001 03:59:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Jun 2001 03:59:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A100D19A33; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:59:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from irixbum.ca (h24-66-237-254.ss.shawcable.net [24.66.237.254]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5A1BE19A1E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:58:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aam396@localhost) by irixbum.ca (SGI-8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11814 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 12:55:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: irixbum.ca: aam396 owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski X-Sender: aam396@irixbum.ca To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] irc client (maybe server) project looking for contributors In-Reply-To: <007701c0f5ca$38fa2390$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 12:55:30 -0700 my irc client used C and regex to parse the server messages.. it had some CTCP implemented, only one channel at a time and things like messages.. i still have a screenshot of it, but no source anymore :( i'll see if anyone who i gave it to still has it (lucho?) andrey On Fri, 15 Jun 2001, Boyd Roberts wrote: > > I know I said it'd be Limbo on Inferno but that's not set in stone. > > do it with limbo. string mangling event driven stuff, limbo gets > it right. > > > Acme strikes me as a good application host for irc which would make it > > "cross platform" (plan9 AND inferno!) > > therein lies the road to emacs. > > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 16 05:41:39 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 16 05:41:39 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 27879 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Jun 2001 05:50:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27875 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2001 05:50:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Jun 2001 05:50:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 51F0A199E1; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 16:50:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail3.panix.com (mail3.panix.com [166.84.0.167]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2FC751998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 16:49:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from panix6.panix.com (panix6.panix.com [166.84.0.231]) by mail3.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AEBD98284 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 16:49:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from randolph@localhost) by panix6.panix.com (8.8.8/8.7.1/PanixN1.0) id QAA04011; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 16:49:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Message-Id: <200106152049.QAA04011@panix6.panix.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] grrrr In-Reply-To: <200106151116.NAA02993@boris.cd.chalmers.se> References: <200106151116.NAA02993@boris.cd.chalmers.se> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: randolph@panix.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 16:49:18 -0400 (EDT) In comp.os.plan9, you wrote: > riot downtown. In Sweden? Name of the gods, WHY? That's so eerie...and here I thought Sweden was such a civilized place. Randolph From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 16 06:24:37 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 16 06:24:37 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 28124 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Jun 2001 06:33:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28120 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2001 06:33:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Jun 2001 06:33:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 96B1A199E6; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 17:33:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (verlaine.noos.net [212.198.2.73]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 565671998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 17:32:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 86185 invoked by uid 0); 15 Jun 2001 21:32:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.73 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 15 Jun 2001 21:32:35 -0000 Message-ID: <016901c0f5e2$8d736d60$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200106151116.NAA02993@boris.cd.chalmers.se> <200106152049.QAA04011@panix6.panix.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] grrrr MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 23:31:34 +0200 > In Sweden? Name of the gods, WHY? That's so eerie...and here I > thought Sweden was such a civilized place. oh, there an EU meeting there and the usual nutters are out to chuck rocks and break things. nothing large caliber rifle bullets wouldn't put a stop to. 'course the politicians wouldn't be so keen on any such effective solution. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 16 07:10:36 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 16 07:10:36 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 28372 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Jun 2001 07:19:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28368 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2001 07:19:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Jun 2001 07:19:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ABE49199E9; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 18:19:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from subito.home.cs.york.ac.uk (caldo.demon.co.uk [194.222.207.148]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id BB95F1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 18:18:39 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] irc client (maybe server) project looking for contributors From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ehxeiojdhgjdkrchjqepymfrvp" Message-Id: <20010615221839.BB95F1998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 23:14:32 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ehxeiojdhgjdkrchjqepymfrvp Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>Acme strikes me as a good application host for irc which would make it >>"cross platform" (plan9 AND inferno!) beto did a basic irc client in alef for old old acme --upas-ehxeiojdhgjdkrchjqepymfrvp Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from tele-punt-22.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.7]) by lavoro; Fri Jun 15 20:01:15 BST 2001 Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 992625780:20:10368:4; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 17:23:00 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2009649; 15 Jun 2001 17:22 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1511219A2A; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:19:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2F63119A13 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:18:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010615171830.ZUQ290.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 18:18:30 +0100 Message-ID: <018a01c0f5bf$300b9d00$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [9fans] irc client (maybe server) project looking for contributors Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 18:18:25 +0100 Okay, we're developing the irc thing at work. So while my head is full of irc stuff I'd like to take the opportunity to develop some IRC stuff for plan9 / Inferno. I've done the bot but it was pretty simplistic. I'm inspired to do a client (and I kinda promised ;). Is anyone interested in contributing? Even if it's just at the design and planning stage. I'd welcome anyone's input. I've got plenty of ideas of what I'd like to see. I know I said it'd be Limbo on Inferno but that's not set in stone. Acme strikes me as a good application host for irc which would make it "cross platform" (plan9 AND inferno!) On the other hand I'd like to get to grips with tk on Inferno (and then I might get a free T-Shirt too!) Matt --upas-ehxeiojdhgjdkrchjqepymfrvp-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 16 07:13:37 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 16 07:13:37 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 28404 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Jun 2001 07:22:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28400 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2001 07:22:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Jun 2001 07:22:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D6AE4199EB; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 18:22:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from subito.home.cs.york.ac.uk (caldo.demon.co.uk [194.222.207.148]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C63C21998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 18:21:43 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] irc client (maybe server) project looking for contributors From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010615222143.C63C21998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 23:17:37 +0100 >>If it's to be written in limbo, of course, you don't get the new >>compositing model, so the comic creation side of it is a less attractive >>job. just you wait From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 16 07:22:35 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 16 07:22:35 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 28466 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Jun 2001 07:31:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28462 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2001 07:31:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Jun 2001 07:31:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 761A0199ED; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 18:31:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from subito.home.cs.york.ac.uk (caldo.demon.co.uk [194.222.207.148]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 751EC1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 18:30:49 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Inferno vs. Plan 9 lib/keyboard? From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010615223049.751EC1998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 23:26:43 +0100 >>One I found last night is in /lib/keyboard - >>any (good) reason for having two different versions? ... time and chance happeneth to them all. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 16 08:08:57 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 16 08:08:57 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 28711 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Jun 2001 08:17:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28707 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2001 08:17:50 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Jun 2001 08:17:50 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 31A35199E6; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 19:17:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ducksworth.com (unknown [209.152.156.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 508EC1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 19:16:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (samd@localhost) by ducksworth.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5FNGP289740 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 16:16:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sam@ducksworth.com) X-Authentication-Warning: lucifer.ducksworth.com: samd owned process doing -bs From: Sam Ducksworth X-X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] grrrr In-Reply-To: <016901c0f5e2$8d736d60$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 16:16:25 -0700 (PDT) On Fri, 15 Jun 2001, Boyd Roberts wrote: > > In Sweden? Name of the gods, WHY? That's so eerie...and here I > > thought Sweden was such a civilized place. > > oh, there an EU meeting there and the usual nutters are out > to chuck rocks and break things. nothing large caliber rifle > bullets wouldn't put a stop to. 'course the politicians > wouldn't be so keen on any such effective solution. > nuthin' an old 303 british couldn't handle. > > --sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 16 08:32:35 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 16 08:32:35 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 28884 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Jun 2001 08:41:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28880 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2001 08:41:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Jun 2001 08:41:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7256F199E6; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 19:41:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (lafontaine.noos.net [212.198.2.72]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 97D7E1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 19:40:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 2941146 invoked by uid 0); 15 Jun 2001 23:40:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.232]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.72 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 15 Jun 2001 23:40:21 -0000 Message-ID: <001801c0f5f4$62fda7f0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] grrrr MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 01:39:14 +0200 > nuthin' an old 303 british couldn't handle. true, but that _is_ the dark ages. i was thinking more .50 BMG. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 16 09:42:34 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 16 09:42:34 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 29866 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Jun 2001 09:51:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29862 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2001 09:51:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Jun 2001 09:51:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2CD3F199E6; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 20:51:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B143C1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 20:50:45 -0400 (EDT) From: dmr@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] grrrr MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010616005045.B143C1998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 20:50:43 -0400 There really are better places to talk or read about politics and to express other random social thoughts than here. Dennis From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 16 09:58:34 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 16 09:58:34 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 30092 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Jun 2001 10:07:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30088 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2001 10:07:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Jun 2001 10:07:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5BBD6199E6; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 21:07:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [130.203.12.17] (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 65EFC1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 21:06:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 3519 invoked by uid 991); 16 Jun 2001 01:06:27 -0000 Message-ID: <20010616010627.3517.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] grrrr From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 21:06:27 -0400 Good grief. This list is for Plan 9, remember? Topicality please. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 16 16:52:35 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 16 16:52:35 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 3089 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Jun 2001 17:01:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3085 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2001 17:01:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Jun 2001 17:01:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A06C0199FB; Sat, 16 Jun 2001 04:01:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post.mail.nl.demon.net (post-11.mail.nl.demon.net [194.159.73.21]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE8CC199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 16 Jun 2001 04:00:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [195.11.248.215] (helo=localhostnl) by post.mail.nl.demon.net with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15BB0E-000Kqk-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 16 Jun 2001 08:00:19 +0000 Received: from wstan by localhostnl with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 15BCmr-00006G-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 16 Jun 2001 09:54:37 +0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20010616095437.A372@localhostnl.demon.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i From: William Staniewicz Subject: [9fans] Realtek Ethernet Adapter Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 09:54:37 +0000 I am aware of the hardware specifications page for Plan9, however, I bought an unsupported, cheap Realtek chip based ethernet adapter. Will it work with Plan9 without any special modifications? I am not using it right now as I am awaiting the installation of my ADSL service (next week), so there is now way to test it. It does install with linux 2.2 though. The chip is the RTL8139C. Here is a link to a page with the specs: http://www.realtek.com.tw/htm/products/cn/rtl8139c.htm -- Bill William Staniewicz Amsterdam, NL From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 16 18:04:35 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 16 18:04:35 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 3745 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Jun 2001 18:13:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3741 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2001 18:13:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Jun 2001 18:13:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5EB0019A03; Sat, 16 Jun 2001 05:13:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (mta05-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.45]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A50A9199FD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 16 Jun 2001 05:12:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010615223830.XDRM285.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 23:38:30 +0100 Message-ID: <020501c0f5eb$e3454020$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [9fans] Jacopo IRC Suite on Sourceforge Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 23:36:58 +0100 Hi, I've registered a new project on SourceForge called Jacopo IRC Suite If I'm accepted you'll be able to find it on jacopo.sourceforge.org I chose the BSD license (which i can chage later) so I hope this doesn't clash with any other obligations or people's sensitivity. Why sourceforge? I think it's a good public presence. Anyone doing a search for Limbo or Inferno will find it. And I'm lazy and all the mailing list, cvs stuff etc. is taken care of by them. I don't run a plan9 file server so I don't get the benefit of dump & yesterday. (I never did get the cpu/auth server to announce itself as a file server). A good place to stick documentation and papers relating to the project that other people can benefit from even if they don't care about Inferno or Limbo or IRC. It's my first foray on sourceforge so it might be the worst decision I could make but at least I'll know. Matt From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 16 18:25:33 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 16 18:25:33 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 3898 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Jun 2001 18:34:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3894 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2001 18:34:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Jun 2001 18:34:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E820819A09; Sat, 16 Jun 2001 05:34:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.cablespeed.com (mail.cablespeed.com [206.112.192.76]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3251219A04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 16 Jun 2001 05:33:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from flagship.wonder.net (c207-202-220-27.sea1.cablespeed.com [207.202.220.27]) by mail.cablespeed.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA17092 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 16 Jun 2001 02:33:30 -0700 Message-Id: <200106160933.CAA17092@mail.cablespeed.com> User-Agent: Pan/0.9.6 (Unix) From: "Mike Warner" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9 usability References: <20010530091635.C2C28199E9@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 02:33:30 -0700 Rio is hanging me up. Before I can install P9 I need to buy a card specifically to run RIO. There was nothing I could do to get RIO to accept my Rage Pro 128. I'm thinking ATI Expert 98 AGP. What do you think? Thanks. -m In article <20010530091635.C2C28199E9@mail.cse.psu.edu>, "Unknown" wrote: > plan 9 is useful as a standalone system. on the other hand, for what > you're doing, you'll need graphics and thus rio to work. the user > interface expects it. that's one reason you're already finding it > clumsy. there are no cursor addressing editors because there is no > cursor addressing (since the system postdates cursor addressed > terminals). [all right, there's an emulation of a vt220, but that turns > round and uses bitmap graphics to do it.] there are two cut-and-paste > editors once graphics is going: acme and sam. > > meanwhile, during those initial configuration stages without graphics, > such as modifying /lib/vgadb if need be, you're limited to ed. > similarly, rio windows provide scrolling for larger text units. try `p' > to page output until rio is going (and some use p even under rio). > > AGP devices can work; i use various AGP ATI cards successfully. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 16 22:45:33 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 16 22:45:33 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 6003 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Jun 2001 22:54:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5999 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2001 22:54:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Jun 2001 22:54:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 25D4D19A00; Sat, 16 Jun 2001 09:54:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (mta05-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.45]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A4FA0199EA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 16 Jun 2001 09:53:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010616014437.YASM285.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 16 Jun 2001 02:44:38 +0100 Message-ID: <002a01c0f605$e2f1a310$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [9fans] filename length Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 02:32:48 +0100 I'm frustrated by the filename maximum length. I can't unzip the jargon file :-( And some of my mp3 filenames dont survive. So no using the cpuserver as an mp3 jukebox Just wanted that on record :-) Matt From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 16 23:21:33 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 16 23:21:33 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 6330 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Jun 2001 23:30:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6326 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2001 23:30:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Jun 2001 23:30:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DCBF519A0B; Sat, 16 Jun 2001 10:30:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gsyc.escet.urjc.es (gsyc.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.45]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1C4B3199EC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 16 Jun 2001 10:29:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gsyc.escet.urjc.es (193-153-96-48.uc.nombres.ttd.es [193.153.96.48]) by gsyc.escet.urjc.es (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA12910 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 16 Jun 2001 16:29:41 +0200 X-Authentication-Warning: gsyc.escet.urjc.es: Host 193-153-96-48.uc.nombres.ttd.es [193.153.96.48] claimed to be gsyc.escet.urjc.es Message-ID: <3B2B6E15.D87B4EE@gsyc.escet.urjc.es> From: FJ Ballesteros X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] filename length References: <002a01c0f605$e2f1a310$6401a8c0@freeze2k> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 16:32:53 +0200 I think that's being addressed in 9p2000, if I'm not mistaken. In the mean time, I just rename the mp3 files on a unix box. Matt wrote: > > I'm frustrated by the filename maximum length. > > I can't unzip the jargon file :-( > And some of my mp3 filenames dont survive. > So no using the cpuserver as an mp3 jukebox > > Just wanted that on record :-) > > Matt From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 16 23:42:32 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 16 23:42:32 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 6522 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Jun 2001 23:51:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6518 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2001 23:51:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Jun 2001 23:51:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 51ED9199EC; Sat, 16 Jun 2001 10:51:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 006FB199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 16 Jun 2001 10:50:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14841 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 16 Jun 2001 10:50:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id KAA15733; Sat, 16 Jun 2001 10:50:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200106161450.KAA15733@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] filename length Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <002a01c0f605$e2f1a310$6401a8c0@freeze2k> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 10:50:43 -0400 (EDT) In article <002a01c0f605$e2f1a310$6401a8c0@freeze2k> you write: >I'm frustrated by the filename maximum length. > >I can't unzip the jargon file :-( >And some of my mp3 filenames dont survive. >So no using the cpuserver as an mp3 jukebox > >Just wanted that on record :-) This is one of the many perceived deficiencies that's being address in 9P2000. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 17 00:15:35 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 17 00:15:35 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 6971 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Jun 2001 00:24:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6967 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2001 00:24:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Jun 2001 00:24:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7ACE5199F8; Sat, 16 Jun 2001 11:24:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 784EF199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 16 Jun 2001 11:23:54 -0400 (EDT) From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Realtek Ethernet Adapter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010616152354.784EF199DD@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 11:23:51 -0400 On Sat Jun 16 04:01:25 EDT 2001, wstan@localhostnl.demon.nl wrote: > I am aware of the hardware specifications page for > Plan9, however, I bought an unsupported, cheap Realtek > chip based ethernet adapter. Will it work with Plan9 without > any special modifications? > > I am not using it right now as I am awaiting the > installation of my ADSL service (next week), so > there is now way to test it. It does install with > linux 2.2 though. > > The chip is the RTL8139C. Here is a link to a > page with the specs: > > http://www.realtek.com.tw/htm/products/cn/rtl8139c.htm > > -- > Bill William Staniewicz > Amsterdam, NL On May 8th in 9fans I wrote: >On Tue May 8 04:37:27 EDT 2001, arnold@skeeve.com wrote: >> ... >> The on-board ethernet chip is a Realtek 8319; is that supported? If not, >> I have 3com PCMCIA card that ought to work, but it'd be nice to use the one >> that's on board. >> ... > >Do you mean the Realtek RTL8139? If so, there is no driver but I did start >to write one a while ago. However, the datasheet and programming guide are a bit >of a joke and I looked at both the Linux and FreeBSD drivers only to find they >both had lots of comments and workarounds for chip bugs; the disturbing thing >was that the bug sets handled by the two drivers didn't seem to intersect much. That still stands as far as I know. I've given my prototype driver to a couple of people who expressed interest in getting it working but haven't had any feedback. It's not much of a driver but at least would save you typing in all the enums if you were interested; I have a suitable card for testing against somewhere. --jim From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 17 06:30:34 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 17 06:30:34 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 11256 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Jun 2001 06:39:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11252 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2001 06:39:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Jun 2001 06:39:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7A534199F8; Sat, 16 Jun 2001 17:39:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail008.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail008.syd.optusnet.com.au [203.2.75.232]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0C22F199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 16 Jun 2001 17:38:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jumbo (sbrax3-176.dialup.optusnet.com.au [198.142.108.176]) by mail008.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f5GLcI602966 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 17 Jun 2001 07:38:19 +1000 Message-ID: <001901c0f6ac$df811380$b06c8ec6@jumbo.landra.org> From: "sdrthomas" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Subject: [9fans] cpu server question Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 07:39:49 +1000 I now have a cpu/auth/file server up and running and serving terminals, ok, a terminal, and it all works great. However, when the cpu server boots up it displays a 'bootes# ' prompt and does not start up rio. Is this expected behaviour? Is there something I need to do to get rio to start up automatically after a boot? Thanks From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 17 07:41:32 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 17 07:41:32 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 12002 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Jun 2001 07:50:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11998 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2001 07:50:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Jun 2001 07:50:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 64E24199F8; Sat, 16 Jun 2001 18:50:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E83E5199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 16 Jun 2001 18:49:08 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] cpu server question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-vhaoubuqyfninquvssvgvucclx" Message-Id: <20010616224908.E83E5199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 18:49:07 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-vhaoubuqyfninquvssvgvucclx Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit add rio to /rc/bin/cpurc? You'll have to load the vga also. Look at the differences twixt termrc and cpurc --upas-vhaoubuqyfninquvssvgvucclx Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sat Jun 16 17:39:25 EDT 2001 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sat Jun 16 17:39:24 EDT 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 17BAE199F6; Sat, 16 Jun 2001 17:39:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail008.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail008.syd.optusnet.com.au [203.2.75.232]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0C22F199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 16 Jun 2001 17:38:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jumbo (sbrax3-176.dialup.optusnet.com.au [198.142.108.176]) by mail008.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f5GLcI602966 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 17 Jun 2001 07:38:19 +1000 Message-ID: <001901c0f6ac$df811380$b06c8ec6@jumbo.landra.org> From: "sdrthomas" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Subject: [9fans] cpu server question Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 07:39:49 +1000 I now have a cpu/auth/file server up and running and serving terminals, ok, a terminal, and it all works great. However, when the cpu server boots up it displays a 'bootes# ' prompt and does not start up rio. Is this expected behaviour? Is there something I need to do to get rio to start up automatically after a boot? Thanks --upas-vhaoubuqyfninquvssvgvucclx-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 17 08:26:34 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 17 08:26:34 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 12477 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Jun 2001 08:35:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12473 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2001 08:35:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Jun 2001 08:35:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2E750199FC; Sat, 16 Jun 2001 19:35:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (mta06-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.46]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2EDAF199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 16 Jun 2001 19:34:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010616233419.IYCF295.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 17 Jun 2001 00:34:19 +0100 Message-ID: <010901c0f6bc$d5368b20$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 00:34:05 +0100 My friend is on his third year (of 4) of his Computer Science Degree. I know they've covered Assembler, Java, C++ and Databases. I mentioned to him that Dennis Ritchie posted to 9fans thinking he might be interested. "Who?" I didn't bother saying "Those who do not understand Unix are doomed to reinvent it - poorly..." From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 18 00:00:42 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 18 00:00:42 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 23319 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2001 00:09:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23315 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2001 00:09:39 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2001 00:09:39 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6F46E199F9; Sun, 17 Jun 2001 11:09:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A0EF2199EA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 17 Jun 2001 11:08:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010617150833.VVVO351.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 17 Jun 2001 16:08:33 +0100 Message-ID: <002401c0f73f$55928580$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] Inferno plug-in security MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 16:08:15 +0100 If you made it Open Source as is subsequent additions to it by third parties would be outside of your control. Matt From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 18 00:01:32 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 18 00:01:32 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 23335 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2001 00:10:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23331 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2001 00:10:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2001 00:10:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2D705199FC; Sun, 17 Jun 2001 11:10:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pproxy105.mbn.or.jp (pproxy105.mbn.or.jp [202.217.3.66]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 89C65199FA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 17 Jun 2001 11:09:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from patrick (cse8-40.kawaguchi.mbn.or.jp [202.217.16.110]) by pproxy105.mbn.or.jp (8.9.3+Sun/pproxy105.mbn.or.jp-2.0) with SMTP id AAA28025 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 00:09:31 +0900 (JST) From: "kazumi iwane" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Importance: Normal Subject: [9fans] function prototype missing? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 23:54:36 +0900 Hello 9fans, When compiling kernels, the compiler gives a warning (I wonder why not an error) at /sys/src/9/port/sysproc.c:369. It seems that /sys/src/9/port/lib.h needs a prototype for fullrune(2), or I must have missed some updates. - kazumi From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 18 00:29:35 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 18 00:29:35 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 23553 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2001 00:38:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23549 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2001 00:38:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2001 00:38:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9AB5419A00; Sun, 17 Jun 2001 11:38:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 7C807199F6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 17 Jun 2001 11:37:49 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] change to bitsy/devsac.c to use the new bootldr MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-pcwsxgpijnyctvsiaphcxfxima" Message-Id: <20010617153749.7C807199F6@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 11:37:47 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-pcwsxgpijnyctvsiaphcxfxima Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I already did this. We look in both spots. I needed to do that to make william work. He's using the latest and greatest bootldr. --upas-pcwsxgpijnyctvsiaphcxfxima Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Jun 15 07:35:08 EDT 2001 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Fri Jun 15 07:35:06 EDT 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A93DE199F3; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 03:33:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 09C19199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 03:32:16 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: F.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010615073217.09C19199E9@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] change to bitsy/devsac.c to use the new bootldr Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 09:28:11 +0200 Hi, To load and use a ramdisk on the bitsy with the new boot loaders you need to change devsac.c: where it said p = (uchar*)Flash_tar+4; it should say now p = (uchar*)Flash_tar; This seems to be due to a change in the bootldr that now has a partition table. So the tar file created in ramdisk now gets placed exactly at 0x100000, not at 0x100004. Beware that this change can make devsac.c fail with previous verions of the bootldr, but you are likely to upgrade it anyway... BTW, you also need to create a ramdisk partition in the bootldr. I'll post in a minute an updated howto file (i.e. Booting101) for the new bootldr. --upas-pcwsxgpijnyctvsiaphcxfxima-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 18 00:32:32 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 18 00:32:32 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 23579 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2001 00:41:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23575 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2001 00:41:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2001 00:41:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5977E19A03; Sun, 17 Jun 2001 11:41:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0D859199F6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 17 Jun 2001 11:40:03 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010617154003.0D859199F6@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] last message Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 11:40:01 -0400 sorry about that, not meant for the list... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 18 09:23:31 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 18 09:23:31 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 27599 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2001 09:32:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27595 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2001 09:32:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2001 09:32:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0090D199FD; Sun, 17 Jun 2001 20:32:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D4871199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 17 Jun 2001 20:31:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010618003135.CQKL351.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 01:31:35 +0100 Message-ID: <00d701c0f78d$fb26d750$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [9fans] source code as data not text Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 01:31:13 +0100 Maybe I'm not hard-core enough but one thing I miss is syntax highlighting. And if you go so far as to parse the source code in the editor then you can use the opportunity to develop the idea. There are some good ideas in a paper here http://mindprod.com/scid.html about source code living in a database rather than a plain text file. The basic premise is that when an editor knows about what source code is and does it can offer new views of it etc. Anyone got any views of their own? matt From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 18 16:35:34 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 18 16:35:34 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 7426 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2001 16:44:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7422 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2001 16:44:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2001 16:44:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 403B919A00; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 03:44:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 561E2199FC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 03:43:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cotswold.demon.co.uk ([194.222.75.186] helo=nigel.9fs.org) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15Bth9-0004uC-0A for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 07:43:35 +0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] source code as data not text From: nigel@9fs.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-nzamajtoosgfipbhhziclutakp" Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 08:43:13 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-nzamajtoosgfipbhhziclutakp Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> The basic premise is that when an editor knows about what source code is and >> does it can offer new views of it etc. >> >> Anyone got any views of their own? Yes. It's not a matter of being hard-core. The fundamental premise is that text is the only universal format. If you keep the 'data' in a 'database', then how do other tools reason on it? Only if they can read the format, of course. This tends to mean, "only if they're from the same vendor". Keeping your 'data' in a universally agreed format is important. I would contend that text is the only one for source code. Having structural information is important, but the common format must not thrown away in pursuit of it. The concept is in direct opposition to the toolset principle. But, in this case, the guy is actually promoting strict syntax directed editing, a well-worn-out concept. Under the section "Real World SCID Implementations", he says The usual reaction I get from programmers when I mention SCIDs is that they have tried them and they hate them. What they have tried are coding templates where you fill in the blanks. These stop you from coding in the old way, yet offer almost no payback. Granted SCIDs will force you to rethink how you compose programs. Code must at all times be 100% syntactically correct. However, a good SCID will pay back 100 fold for this inconvenience. If you try to import or paste code that is not correct, you will find much of it being turned into a special kind of comment 'Nuff said. You really don't want it. The last thing you want when in the middle of creating something is to have an editor forcing you to dot the I's and cross the t's. Composition of programs is not linear, in exactly the same way as a novelist might be writing the introduction, the guts, and the end all at the same time. So even if syntactically correct entry is an improvement over coding templates, they both force an uncomfortable approach which strangles creativity. The programmers aren't wrong, there is plenty of research to support this, and he shouldn't be so dismissive. Every so often someone ressurects this idea. In this case, despite his claim to have been promoting it since the 70's, he doesn't mention any of the classic research on the subject, which started at least as early as the 70's. Try reading papers on the Gandalf project as a starting point. --upas-nzamajtoosgfipbhhziclutakp Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by cpu; Mon Jun 18 01:32:24 BST 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8EB76199F8; Sun, 17 Jun 2001 20:32:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D4871199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 17 Jun 2001 20:31:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010618003135.CQKL351.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 01:31:35 +0100 Message-ID: <00d701c0f78d$fb26d750$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [9fans] source code as data not text Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 01:31:13 +0100 Maybe I'm not hard-core enough but one thing I miss is syntax highlighting. And if you go so far as to parse the source code in the editor then you can use the opportunity to develop the idea. There are some good ideas in a paper here http://mindprod.com/scid.html about source code living in a database rather than a plain text file. The basic premise is that when an editor knows about what source code is and does it can offer new views of it etc. Anyone got any views of their own? matt --upas-nzamajtoosgfipbhhziclutakp-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 18 16:37:29 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 18 16:37:29 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 7472 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2001 16:46:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7468 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2001 16:46:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2001 16:46:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7CA1F19A03; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 03:46:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0A24F199FC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 03:45:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cotswold.demon.co.uk ([194.222.75.186] helo=nigel.9fs.org) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 15Btj9-0004hu-0K for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 07:45:39 +0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] source code as data not text From: nigel@9fs.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-opmdibojsahqqdvfvbympfnolh" Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 08:45:16 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-opmdibojsahqqdvfvbympfnolh Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oh, and the link to SeeSoft is broken too. --upas-opmdibojsahqqdvfvbympfnolh Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by cpu; Mon Jun 18 01:32:24 BST 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8EB76199F8; Sun, 17 Jun 2001 20:32:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D4871199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 17 Jun 2001 20:31:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010618003135.CQKL351.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 01:31:35 +0100 Message-ID: <00d701c0f78d$fb26d750$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [9fans] source code as data not text Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 01:31:13 +0100 Maybe I'm not hard-core enough but one thing I miss is syntax highlighting. And if you go so far as to parse the source code in the editor then you can use the opportunity to develop the idea. There are some good ideas in a paper here http://mindprod.com/scid.html about source code living in a database rather than a plain text file. The basic premise is that when an editor knows about what source code is and does it can offer new views of it etc. Anyone got any views of their own? matt --upas-opmdibojsahqqdvfvbympfnolh-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 18 17:44:31 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 18 17:44:31 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 626 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2001 17:53:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 622 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2001 17:53:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2001 17:53:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 157C7199FD; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 04:53:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from haddock.cd.chalmers.se (haddock.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CD433199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 04:52:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (boris.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.21]) by haddock.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA10239; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:52:18 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (IDENT:7xj1ktetkd0chIbPjHs1kwImz5mp+COI@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by boris.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA04199; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:52:17 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200106180852.KAA04199@boris.cd.chalmers.se> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: lac@cd.chalmers.se Subject: Re: [9fans] source code as data not text In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 18 Jun 2001 01:31:13 BST." <00d701c0f78d$fb26d750$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: Laura Creighton Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:52:14 +0200 The problem with putting source code in a database is that you then need complicated database tools to read your source code. Then it is harder to use pipes and shellscripts. When David Slocum, Aaron Markus, somebody whose name I forget did a study of bit-map fonts and their effect on the comprehension of C code for a DARPA grant we discovered that it was much better to build a parser in a displaying tool that you could make display plain ascii any way you like by some sort of parsing rule, as opposed to making the source code itself complicated. In our efforts to learn this we discovered that it is very tough on your experiemental method to have different versions of source code that are supposed to be identical except for formatting details. They will vary. We wasted a fair bit of time proving conclusively that students who are new to C have a hard time understanding it when you have left out the odd line or character by mistake, and the like. Things worked better when the person whose name I can't remember and I hacked the C pre-processor and the compiler to produce, instead of machine code, bit maps (which was radical new technology at the time) which we could then baffle more students with. There is also the helpless factor. On occasion I have had to write C code in MS word. It goes very badly. I very much feel a helpless prisoner while this is going on; locked inside layers and layers of gorp which contribute absolutely nothing towards my main goal, making the machine do what I want it to do. It makes writing code hard for me. Syntax highlighting does catch errors. Does it make you lazier about not making errors in the first place? How can we test this hypothesis? I know people who never used line editors like ed extensively are surprised when old ed hackers sit down and write 20, 50, 100 lines of code, one line right after each other, without going back and fiddling with bits. If you started writing programs when there was no cursor addressing, or screen editors (or they were banned because of the load they put on those old machines) this is no trick at all. Laura ps. we are all safe and sound here. We should all be cleaned up soon. But I never made it to the used computer store; Saturday's revised demonstration path made to miss the trashed out area went right down the street where I live. Thanks for all the support. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 18 17:59:31 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 18 17:59:31 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 1036 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2001 18:08:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1032 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2001 18:08:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2001 18:08:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1D474199FC; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 05:08:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from haddock.cd.chalmers.se (haddock.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 08DE8199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 05:07:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (boris.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.21]) by haddock.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA11095; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 11:07:45 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (IDENT:VfSXZ6/JsKRO/habR5nwqMwr01gG1Cq6@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by boris.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA04339; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 11:07:45 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200106180907.LAA04339@boris.cd.chalmers.se> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: lac@cd.chalmers.se Subject: Re: [9fans] source code as data not text In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 18 Jun 2001 08:43:13 BST." From: Laura Creighton Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 11:07:41 +0200 Cutting and pasting code is plain evil. If you need it twice, you need a library function, or a template, I suppose, though I dislike templates for other reasons. Any program that attempts to help you by making sure that you cannot cut and paste things in that are not syntactically correct is doing you no favour. As you change things to make the program happier, you are producing two slightly different versions of essentially the same code -- precisely the evil you need most to avoid. I have no idea why close to every human being on the planet feels the compelling need to write their own strcmp, with their own unique bugs in them, but the problem is that everybody is out reinventing the square wheel, not that the syntax in some of them is questionable. Laura From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 18 18:06:33 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 18 18:06:33 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 1114 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2001 18:15:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1110 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2001 18:15:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2001 18:15:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CBF9919A00; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 05:15:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 06B9C199F6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 05:14:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010618091421.FWWN294.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:14:21 +0100 Message-ID: <010d01c0f7d7$013abd70$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200106180852.KAA04199@boris.cd.chalmers.se> Subject: Re: [9fans] source code as data not text MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:13:57 +0100 bah, my fault but I wasn't really thinking about the database side of things. Changing the file format is definately a no-no. What sparked my interest was making the editor do more work. Maybe it's because I write code that writes code and having string literals in a different colour from the source code helps me see. I did like VB's auto parsing if input code. Highlighting a sections that are stynax errors etc. must reduce the cycle? I'm glad I asked here though. Can't think of a better bunch of people to run it past. matt From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 18 18:09:33 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 18 18:09:33 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 1170 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2001 18:18:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1166 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2001 18:18:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2001 18:18:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C01A219A02; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 05:18:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C7201199F6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 05:17:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 15Bv6g-0004Ne-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:14:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Rick O'shay Message-ID: <20010616.022215.1634506226.1273@flagship.wonder.net> Organization: Borg Networks Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <200106111013.MAA14426@boris.cd.chalmers.se> Subject: Re: [9fans] awk Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 09:12:00 GMT In article <200106111013.MAA14426@boris.cd.chalmers.se>, "Laura Creighton" wrote: > it is very cool, but these days I do all my old awk things in python. > Laura On linuces, you'll go back once you start using gawk-3.1.0. It has very highly abstracted Plan-9zy syntactical model for socket programming. Once gawk incorporates a multithreading model, I won't have to make any more excuses for not wanting to know Perl. -m From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 18 18:40:32 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 18 18:40:32 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 1695 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2001 18:49:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1690 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2001 18:49:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2001 18:49:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3D166199FD; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 05:49:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 38893199F6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 05:47:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 15BvEf-0004YP-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:22:17 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: cLIeNUX user Message-ID: Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com References: <200106150401.AAA08475@smtp.fywss.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] [reminder] pointer to Plan 9 FAQ Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 09:16:51 GMT humbubba@smart.net >The Plan 9 faq is posted to comp.os.plan9 at the beginning of each month. >It is also at news.answers archive sites, look for comp-os/plan9-faq > >The latest hypertext version of the faq is available at url >http://www.fywss.com/plan9/plan9faq.html Lynx is hanging on that Rick Hohensee From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 18 18:41:03 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 18 18:41:03 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 1726 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2001 18:50:02 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1722 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2001 18:50:01 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2001 18:50:01 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 80A5D19A02; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 05:49:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 62690199F8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 05:48:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 15BvEf-0004YJ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:22:17 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: cLIeNUX user Message-ID: Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com References: <018a01c0f5bf$300b9d00$6401a8c0@freeze2k> Subject: Re: [9fans] irc client (maybe server) project looking for contributors Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 09:16:26 GMT humbubba@smart.net >Okay, we're developing the irc thing at work. So while my head is full of >irc stuff I'd like to take the opportunity to develop some IRC stuff for >plan9 / Inferno. > >I've done the bot but it was pretty simplistic. > >I'm inspired to do a client (and I kinda promised ;). > >Is anyone interested in contributing? >Even if it's just at the design and planning stage. I'm interested in contributing just a design :o) IRC doesn't scale well. EFnet is the biggest IRC network, and it's at capacity at about 50k users with the trunk servers needing big pipes, t1 or better. Maybe t3, I don't recall clearly. When the topic comes up I try to promulgate a cli-serv/moderator model. The idea is to get message traffic distributed over the cli-servs, which is analagous to what are now the clients, and leave control communications like joins, nick changes and so on on the moderators, which are now the servers. This is re-factoring the boundary between client and server, while remaining the same in overall functionality. The idea is that each client is one of the message servers for the channels it is on, and just those channels. Each channel then is it's own tree topology, like IRC as a whole is now, and the moderators control things by having all the info on all connectivity. It's a very tricky design challenge though. Another thing I suggest is opless channels. Rick Hohensee http://linux01.gwdg.de/~rhohen > >I'd welcome anyone's input. >I've got plenty of ideas of what I'd like to see. > >I know I said it'd be Limbo on Inferno but that's not set in stone. >Acme strikes me as a good application host for irc which would make it >"cross platform" (plan9 AND inferno!) >On the other hand I'd like to get to grips with tk on Inferno (and then I >might get a free T-Shirt too!) > >Matt From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 18 18:41:51 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 18 18:41:51 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 1748 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2001 18:50:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1744 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2001 18:50:49 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2001 18:50:49 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 13002199FF; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 05:50:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8234E199F6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 05:48:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 15BvEg-0004YV-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:22:18 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Dan Bar Dov Message-ID: <3b2c9128@news.barak.net.il> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Subject: [9fans] Python on plan9 ? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 09:17:15 GMT Is there a port somewhere ? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 18 18:43:09 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 18 18:43:09 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 1787 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2001 18:52:08 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1783 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2001 18:52:08 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2001 18:52:08 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9332219A07; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 05:50:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A65EF199F8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 05:48:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 15BvEg-0004Yb-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:22:18 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3B2CE4ED.8D265CC6@null.net> Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20010530091635.C2C28199E9@mail.cse.psu.edu>, <200106160933.CAA17092@mail.cablespeed.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9 usability Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 09:17:33 GMT Mike Warner wrote: > ... There was nothing I could do to get RIO to > accept my Rage Pro 128. I'm thinking > ATI Expert 98 AGP. There are several flavors of the "Xpert 98"; the graphics chipset varies from Rage Pro to Rage Pro Turbo to Rage Pro LT to Rage XL. The Rage XL chip apparently needs a special software assist that Plan 9 doesn't provide. (Same principle as a WinModem.) I think all the others work okay under the current Plan 9. One way to detect a Rage XL version is to look for "Value edition" on the box. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 18 18:45:03 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 18 18:45:03 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 1825 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2001 18:54:02 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1821 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2001 18:54:02 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2001 18:54:02 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 90D0219A09; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 05:50:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E2BB7199F6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 05:48:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 15BvEh-0004Yh-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:22:19 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Hermann Samso Message-ID: <9gion2$8ks$1@newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de> Organization: Universitaet Hannover Subject: [9fans] Wiki update, FAQ? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 09:17:50 GMT Hello! Regarding the Plan9 wiki pages, I tried to put some changes, well they landed in the diff section. I don't know if this is a wiki FAQ question (is there a wiki FAQ? in english?), but what's the update frequency? Is this a security option, I could understand. saludos, hermann samso From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 18 18:45:37 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 18 18:45:37 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 1841 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2001 18:54:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1837 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2001 18:54:36 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2001 18:54:36 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A990B19A0E; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 05:51:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 677AE199F8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 05:48:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 15BvEh-0004Yn-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:22:19 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: chicobaud Message-ID: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Subject: [9fans] VGA Riva TNT2 Problems Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 09:18:10 GMT I wanted to try Plan9. I have a problem with the installation because of my Graphics card - nVidia Riva TNT2 Model64. Can you give me a little help with this ? Chico 17/Jun/2001 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 18 18:46:31 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 18 18:46:31 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 1861 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2001 18:55:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1857 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2001 18:55:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2001 18:55:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D272819A0A; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 05:55:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cejchan.gli.cas.cz (cejchan.gli.cas.cz [147.231.139.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D1793199F6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 05:54:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cej by cejchan.gli.cas.cz with local (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 15BvrH-0005pK-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:02:11 +0200 Subject: Re: [9fans] Python on plan9 ? To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: X-Mailer: TkMail 4.0beta9 In-Reply-To: <3b2c9128@news.barak.net.il> From: pac Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:02:11 +0200 I've found one at: http://csociety-ftp.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/plan9/python/ -- Peter A. Cejchan Dept. Paleobiology, Inst. Geology Acad. Sci., Rozvojova 135, Prague 6 CZ-16502 Czech Republic ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A plea: Please, consider your support to the Public Library of Science initiative at http://www.publiclibraryofscience.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 18 18:50:30 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 18 18:50:30 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 1950 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2001 18:59:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1946 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2001 18:59:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2001 18:59:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1BC2219A03; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 05:59:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.hispeed.net (mail.hispeed.com [209.145.61.245]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EDBCF199F6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 05:58:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from astro (210-54-224-113.adsl.xtra.co.nz [210.54.224.113]) by mail.hispeed.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id f5I9weB19379 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 02:58:40 -0700 (PDT) From: "Richard Elberger" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: RE: [9fans] source code as data not text Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <010d01c0f7d7$013abd70$6401a8c0@freeze2k> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 22:02:59 +1200 In my opinion, you're on the right track. As for databases storing code, I think it is good. I disagree with Laura's shell script (etc) theory -- I have a hard time believing she works in anything else but an academic environment -- I have been doing release management for a long time and I would rather have code stored in a clustered rdbms that is accessed through its own shell [that is cross-platform like limbo] than relying on shell scripts, etc, that aren't cross-platform. In fact, you'd be surprised how many big software companies are already moving that way with internal teams building such change management systems. 2p. -- rich >-----Original Message----- >From: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu [mailto:9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu]On Behalf >Of Matt >Sent: Monday, 18 June 2001 9:14 p.m. >To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >Subject: Re: [9fans] source code as data not text > > >bah, my fault but I wasn't really thinking about the database side of >things. Changing the file format is definately a no-no. > >What sparked my interest was making the editor do more work. >Maybe it's because I write code that writes code and having string literals >in a different colour from the source code helps me see. > >I did like VB's auto parsing if input code. Highlighting a >sections that are >stynax errors etc. must reduce the cycle? > >I'm glad I asked here though. Can't think of a better bunch of >people to run >it past. > >matt > > > > > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 18 18:56:32 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 18 18:56:32 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 2115 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2001 19:05:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2111 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2001 19:05:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2001 19:05:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9F3B719A01; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 06:05:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cejchan.gli.cas.cz (cejchan.gli.cas.cz [147.231.139.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 625C8199F6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 06:05:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cej by cejchan.gli.cas.cz with local (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 15Bw1m-0005q9-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:13:02 +0200 Subject: Re: [9fans] Wiki update, FAQ? To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: X-Mailer: TkMail 4.0beta9 In-Reply-To: <9gion2$8ks$1@newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de> From: pac Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:13:02 +0200 I think Wiki pages are updated immediately. Just read them from the web instead of the cache. Shift+Reload does it in Netscape. Or have I missed the point? Cheers, Peter. -- Peter A. Cejchan Dept. Paleobiology, Inst. Geology Acad. Sci., Rozvojova 135, Prague 6 CZ-16502 Czech Republic ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A plea: Please, consider your support to the Public Library of Science initiative at http://www.publiclibraryofscience.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 18 18:58:30 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 18 18:58:30 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 2159 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2001 19:07:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2155 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2001 19:07:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2001 19:07:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 140E5199FF; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 06:07:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (mta05-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.45]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CAEA8199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 06:06:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010618100600.GFY284.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 11:06:00 +0100 Message-ID: <013601c0f7de$3833c090$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3b2c9128@news.barak.net.il> Subject: Re: [9fans] Python on plan9 ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 11:05:36 +0100 google says it's here http://csociety-ftp.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/plan9/python/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 18 19:03:30 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 18 19:03:30 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 2237 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2001 19:12:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2233 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2001 19:12:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2001 19:12:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E2F5C19A05; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 06:12:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from haddock.cd.chalmers.se (haddock.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A5D21199F6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 06:11:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (boris.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.21]) by haddock.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA14120; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:11:48 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (IDENT:YC1JUdu6b+Y9h5RKkMJH8GuP7n5WVsHd@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by boris.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA04841; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:11:47 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200106181011.MAA04841@boris.cd.chalmers.se> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: lac@cd.chalmers.se Subject: Re: [9fans] Python on plan9 ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:02:11 +0200." From: Laura Creighton Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:11:44 +0200 Kenji Arisawa arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp has another, I believe, but I can't find it now. As far as I know both his port and Jeff Sargeant's (the http://csociety-ftp.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/plan9/python) one have sockets that don't quite work correctly .... and Jeff Sargeant told me that in mail _yesterday_. There wasn't enough interest in python to get A Plan 9 Python Interest Group started last time this came up: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&ic=1&th=c52fa45efe17d6c0,4&seekm=20010104044914.2A620199E3%40mail.cse.psu.edu#p (Goodness we need better encoding for Urls...) but I think we have enough interest now. Lets start one. Laura From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 18 21:24:30 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 18 21:24:30 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 3835 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2001 21:33:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3831 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2001 21:33:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2001 21:33:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D52519A09; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 08:33:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2EEA819A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 08:32:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 15Bxoi-0000qr-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 13:07:40 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Karen Russell Message-ID: Organization: ntl Business News Service Subject: [9fans] Training course in Madrid Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:07:07 GMT Vita Nuova is pleased to announce that it will be holding a training course on 2 October 2001 in Madrid, in conjunction with the Universidad Rey Juan Carlos. More details of the course, which is entitled "Inferno & Plan 9: A Technology Overview", can be found at http://www.vitanuova.com/training From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 18 22:36:29 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 18 22:36:29 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 4571 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2001 22:45:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4566 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2001 22:45:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2001 22:45:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 31F6419A08; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 09:45:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ducksworth.com (unknown [209.152.156.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E3F9C19A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 09:44:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (samd@localhost) by ducksworth.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5IDiaJ04891 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 06:44:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sam@ducksworth.com) X-Authentication-Warning: lucifer.ducksworth.com: samd owned process doing -bs From: Sam Ducksworth X-X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Python on plan9 ? In-Reply-To: <200106181011.MAA04841@boris.cd.chalmers.se> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 06:44:36 -0700 (PDT) python on plan9 would be a good thing. you have my vote :-) On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Laura Creighton wrote: > Kenji Arisawa arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp > > has another, I believe, but I can't find it now. As far as I know > both his port and Jeff Sargeant's (the > http://csociety-ftp.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/plan9/python) one have sockets > that don't quite work correctly .... and Jeff Sargeant told me that in mail > _yesterday_. > > There wasn't enough interest in python to get A Plan 9 Python Interest Group > started last time this came up: > http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&ic=1&th=c52fa45efe17d6c0,4&seekm=20010104044914.2A620199E3%40mail.cse.psu.edu#p > > (Goodness we need better encoding for Urls...) > > but I think we have enough interest now. Lets start one. > > Laura > --sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 18 22:51:28 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 18 22:51:28 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 4695 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2001 23:00:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4691 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2001 23:00:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2001 23:00:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 588C119A0E; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:00:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from relay1.mail.uk.psi.net (relay1.mail.uk.psi.net [154.32.105.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 66F1C19A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 09:59:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.snellwilcox.co.uk ([193.82.153.2] helo=mail.snellwilcox.com) by relay1.mail.uk.psi.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 15BzZ1-00006U-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 14:59:35 +0100 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com Received: from ccMail by snellwilcox.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.52.01.1) id 2945346356; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 14:59:07 +0100 Importance: normal Priority: normal Message-Id: <2945346356@snellwilcox.com> X-MIME-Engine: v0.90 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Id: <2945346356-1@snellwilcox.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] margi DVD to go Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 14:56:34 +0100 Hi, Just looking into the posability of a port of the Margi DVD to go PCMCIA Mpeg2 decoder card. I checked the Linux driver which looks fairly sane, I may be able to extract a simple plan9 driver from it. It also appears that it uses a standard LSI logic chipset so I might even be able to get reference manuals. I am not promising to do this but I might get the time. Anyone else done anything similar / got any usefull ideas / comments etc ? -Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The contents of this communication are confidential to the normal user of the email address to which it was sent. If you have received this email in error, any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If this is the case, please notify the sender and delete this message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 18 23:38:29 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 18 23:38:29 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 5172 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2001 23:47:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5168 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2001 23:47:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2001 23:47:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 47A6B19A07; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:47:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cosym.net (sdsl-64-7-3-116.dsl.nyc.megapath.net [64.7.3.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id BC35A199FF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:46:44 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] source code as data not text From: anothy@cosym.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20010618144644.BC35A199FF@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:45:58 -0400 //I have no idea why close to every human being on the planet //feels the compelling need to write their own strcmp... i think i could dig up a _few_ people who've never expressed any desire to write a strcmp. ☺ -α. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 18 23:45:29 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 18 23:45:29 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 5259 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2001 23:54:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5255 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2001 23:54:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2001 23:54:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1431519A0B; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:54:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from HKISRV06.teleware.fi (webmail.teleware.fi [193.65.76.33]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 498C9199F6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:53:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hkisrv08.teleware.fi ([10.204.2.28]) by HKISRV06.teleware.fi with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.1600); Mon, 18 Jun 2001 17:53:38 +0300 content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: Re: [9fans] Inferno plug-in security MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.4417.0 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [9fans] Inferno plug-in security Thread-Index: AcD4BnWOgOaiOYZ8Sb6k4TEAzE23WA== From: "Anssi Porttikivi" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jun 2001 14:53:38.0382 (UTC) FILETIME=[750F8EE0:01C0F806] Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 17:53:39 +0300 wrote in message news:<20010615121808.9F1A119A1D@mail.cse.psu.edu>... > yes, that's a possible type of approach, but i detect a certain amount > of handwaving in your description... restricting the accessible > directories, or even read/write access to them, is probably not > sufficient. (it couldn't give you selective access to different IP > addresses, for example). Certainly there was handwaving, and maybe imprecise conceptions of Inferno or outright ignorance here. I just wonder, if my basic Inferno/Plan 9 security architecture understanding is right: The system services are file system "objects". They can be restricted or augmented at will by programming and stacking new, similar file systems on top of them by bind. Any "file" (a method) in a file system object can be filtered or outright hidden with a simple script and bind, still showing most "files" of the old file system object through. Write a file system interface script that exports its own /net/tcp/n/ctl pipe to filter all "connect" commands based on an IP address. Bind that on top of /net. Let all other files show through from the original /net, or #I. Or something similar. When a plug-in tries to open anything in /net, let the user choose interactively a configuration of stacked binds. These may implement any restrictions, and the interactive security configurator needs only the path to them: just let the user choose what to bind and where, when needed. > and there still remains the question of how to deal with module signing > (which is necessary, in some form, even if you've got verified Dis, to > prevent a module from creating its own Dis module (unverified) and > calling that). Hmmm...if all sensitive system access is through the file system, who cares about rogue Dis modules?=20 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 18 23:48:30 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 18 23:48:30 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 5281 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2001 23:57:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5277 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2001 23:57:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2001 23:57:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC83319A0E; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:57:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3EAB1199FF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:56:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02135 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:56:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id KAA26414; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:56:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200106181456.KAA26414@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] source code as data not text Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <200106180852.KAA04199@boris.cd.chalmers.se> References: <00d701c0f78d$fb26d750$6401a8c0@freeze2k> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:56:45 -0400 (EDT) In article <200106180852.KAA04199@boris.cd.chalmers.se> you write: > > [...] > >Syntax highlighting does catch errors. Does it make you lazier about not >making errors in the first place? How can we test this hypothesis? I >know people who never used line editors like ed extensively are >surprised when old ed hackers sit down and write 20, 50, 100 lines of >code, one line right after each other, without going back and fiddling with >bits. If you started writing programs when there was no cursor addressing, >or screen editors (or they were banned because of the load they >put on those old machines) this is no trick at all. I think that there has to be a break-even point. Before that point, the tools are too difficult, thus too restricting. Afterwards, the tools are too easy and make one lazy. Does syntax highlighting help? I don't think so; in my experience, programmers who use syntax highlighting editors don't turn out code as good as that produced by programmers who use a non-syntax highlighting editor, and they certainly don't do it as quickly. On the other hand, I've programmed using ed, and I don't particularly want to go back (though it's really handy for some things!). Regarding using a database to store code, please don't confuse the term ``database'' with ``relational database.'' Storing code in an RDBMS certainly doesn't buy you anything, as code doesn't map well to the relational model (though I suppose one could argue that the relational model could implicitly encapsulate the functionality of mk and its ilk without additional code). An object database with versioning, on the other hand, might be used to house a repository of code, but that's not the issue at hand; the issue is a programmer editting within the context of a database at all times. I don't think this is a good idea, if for no other reason than yes, it defies the tool-based approach. Specifically, as Nigel pointed out, I'm forced into using a vendors proprietary tools to edit my source. Bye bye acme? No thanks. Besides, tools like CVS, Perforce, etc, already do what the object database would do for me, but do so using normal text files (okay; perforce uses a database on the ``back end''). I use these things in industry all the time (despite my email address :-), and they can come in really handy. However, I almost never use a syntax highlighting editor (unless I'm doing something really repeditive), and I never use a database to store code in my directory. I do use shell scripts and text-based tools all the time. Good God, I'd cut off my hands and stop programming forever if I couldn't. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 19 00:17:29 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 19 00:17:29 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 5533 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2001 00:26:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5529 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2001 00:26:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2001 00:26:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 36A1119A11; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 11:26:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cosym.net (sdsl-64-7-3-116.dsl.nyc.megapath.net [64.7.3.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B7DBA19A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 11:25:11 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: RE: [9fans] source code as data not text From: anothy@cosym.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20010618152511.B7DBA19A08@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 11:24:40 -0400 //In my opinion, you're on the right track. so how do you deal with the concerns raised? for one, the probability that a database-based source code repository would lock you into a specific vendor? and while i'm not entirely clear on what exactly lac was refering to, can you deny the usefulness of being able to "grep ^foo(" in code, or suggest that a databasse system would make that easier somehow? again, as noted earlier, db-based source code systems are another failure to use the little-tools model appropriatly. and as dan points out, SCCS/CVS style stuff is not what's at issue here. //In fact, you'd be surprised how many big software companies are already //moving that way... much to my dismay, i believe you. but then, i'm often suprised how many big companies are doing _lots_ of things i consider stupid. PeopleSoft, anyone? the most involved syntax highlighting i find useful is paren/bracket/quote/&c matching. i could imagine an editor that did that well (acounting for the language-specific escapes and such) being quite nice. more than that i've not found useful, and it's distracting and damaging to people who're learning. and what acme's got now is good 95 times out of 100. -α. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 19 00:25:28 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 19 00:25:28 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 5613 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2001 00:34:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5609 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2001 00:34:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2001 00:34:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1EF5E19A14; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 11:34:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cosym.net (sdsl-64-7-3-116.dsl.nyc.megapath.net [64.7.3.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C69A519A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 11:33:05 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Inferno plug-in security From: anothy@cosym.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20010618153305.C69A519A08@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 11:32:31 -0400 //if all sensitive system access is through the file system, //who cares about rogue Dis modules? imagine i write a Limbo app that does nothing graphical, provides no indication to the user that it's running, but floods some site with network connections. get this running on a few dozen people's machines, and i've got a real nice distributed denial of service attack, all without any of the participants being any the wiser. and if traced, it'll come back to them, not me (the author). also imagine i write something that tracks and reports what you do after loading the app (mind you, i know nothing about the plug-in structure, so i don't know if that's possible). serious privacy concerns there, without Dis signing. maybe still _with_ Dis signing, but at least then you can make a more informed judgement. and, of cource, while fs permissions are useful, they're not the only thing that is. for example, why doesn't Bell Labs hand out accounts on their machines? presumably they employ file permissions reasonably, so i'd only be able to read things that're "world" readable anyway, right? permitting unidentified random people to run Dis modules on your box is dangerous for exactly the same reasons. -α. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 19 00:28:31 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 19 00:28:31 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 5655 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2001 00:37:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5651 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2001 00:37:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2001 00:37:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D44EE19A16; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 11:37:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.82]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0B45D199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 11:36:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moe ([24.0.68.120]) by femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010618153654.KBD26828.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@moe> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 08:36:54 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.388) From: Jonathan Sergent To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v388) In-Reply-To: <200106181011.MAA04841@boris.cd.chalmers.se> Subject: Re: [9fans] Python on plan9 ? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010618153654.KBD26828.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@moe> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 08:37:02 -0700 On Monday, June 18, 2001, at 03:11 AM, Laura Creighton wrote: > Kenji Arisawa arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp > > has another, I believe, but I can't find it now. As far as I know > both his port and Jeff Sargeant's (the > http://csociety-ftp.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/plan9/python) one have sockets > that don't quite work correctly .... and Jeff Sargeant told me that in > mail > _yesterday_. Eek! Who am I? I don't really want to work on the thing any more because I have no use for it at the moment. If someone else can do a better job on the port, I will be happy to host the updated version. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 19 01:18:28 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 19 01:18:28 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 5976 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2001 01:27:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5972 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2001 01:27:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2001 01:27:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 737CF19A11; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:27:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from haddock.cd.chalmers.se (haddock.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 92E75199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:26:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (boris.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.21]) by haddock.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA06195; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 18:26:26 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (IDENT:ILRD6wLxgwirChK4nCX4xUwRdZ14rC7t@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by boris.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA07957; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 18:26:25 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200106181626.SAA07957@boris.cd.chalmers.se> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, sergent@csociety.purdue.edu Cc: lac@cd.chalmers.se Subject: Re: [9fans] Python on plan9 ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 18 Jun 2001 08:37:02 PDT." <20010618153654.KBD26828.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@moe> From: Laura Creighton Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 18:26:22 +0200 I am very sorry that I got your name wrong. Jonathan Sergent. Jonathan Sergent. Jonathan Sergent. Won't happen again. Laura From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 19 03:40:29 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 19 03:40:29 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 7249 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2001 03:49:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7245 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2001 03:49:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2001 03:49:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3264119A14; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 14:49:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 68F9819A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 14:48:43 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: RE: [9fans] source code as data not text From: David Gordon Hogan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010618184843.68F9819A00@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 14:48:35 -0400 > I would rather have code stored in a > clustered rdbms that is accessed through its own shell [that is > cross-platform like limbo] The last thing we need is another shell. What if the code were accessed through a file system interface which is cross-platform? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 19 11:25:34 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 19 11:25:34 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 14128 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2001 11:34:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14120 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2001 11:34:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2001 11:34:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6177119A01; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 22:34:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id BE352199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 22:33:32 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3ciscupdate v148.2.1) From: arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Python on plan9 ? References: <200106181011.MAA04841@boris.cd.chalmers.se> Message-Id: <20010619023332.BE352199E3@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 10:44:05 +0900 Hello 9fans, >Kenji Arisawa arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp >has another, I believe, but I can't find it now. Look: ftp://plan9.aichi-u.ac.jp/import/ or ftp://ar.aichi-u.ac.jp/plan9/import/ Mine is 1.51 and that is enough for me. I heard someone else has 2.0 Kenji Arisawa E-mail: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 19 12:40:27 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 19 12:40:27 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 16071 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2001 12:49:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16067 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2001 12:49:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2001 12:49:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 04B5519A14; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 23:49:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.hispeed.net (mail.hispeed.com [209.145.61.245]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 17A9419A01 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 23:48:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from astro (210-54-224-113.adsl.xtra.co.nz [210.54.224.113]) by mail.hispeed.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id f5J3mM922013 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 20:48:26 -0700 (PDT) From: "Richard Elberger" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: RE: [9fans] source code as data not text Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20010618152511.B7DBA19A08@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 15:52:41 +1200 >and while i'm not entirely clear on what exactly lac was refering=20 >to, can you >deny the usefulness of being able to "grep ^foo(" in code, or=20 >suggest that a >databasse system would make that easier somehow? again, as noted = earlier, >db-based source code systems are another failure to use the = little-tools >model appropriatly. select .. from .. where .. What's the difference? The only difference I see is every time you grep = you do an fopen/fclose. With databases, information can even be cached, = and can perhaps be "smarter" through cross-referencing. While this is a = generalization on a massive scale, I think it is comparable. > >and as dan points out, SCCS/CVS style stuff is not what's at issue = here. > But it is -- editing, checking in/out, collaborating, etc. To just have = another editor is short-sighted. Imo, Rational Software almost has it = 100% right -- they have process, tools, and repositories integrated with = 3rd party products. They just don't have the full-blown = integration/collaboration that's needed. =20 >//In fact, you'd be surprised how many big software companies are = already >//moving that way... > >much to my dismay, i believe you. but then, i'm often suprised how many = big >companies are doing _lots_ of things i consider stupid. PeopleSoft, = anyone? But people still buy their software ... why? Perhaps to the customers = it adds value. In any case, internal process is different than how = products realize the customer's need. Maybe your comment is about = internal-Peoplesoft, which I know nothing about... > >the most involved syntax highlighting i find useful is=20 >paren/bracket/quote/&c >matching. i could imagine an editor that did that well (acounting for = the >language-specific escapes and such) being quite nice. more than=20 >that i've not >found useful, and it's distracting and damaging to people who're = learning. >and what acme's got now is good 95 times out of 100. >-=CE=B1. > > In your particular case... acme still tires me out. When using Inferno, = I use that plain-text editor instead of acme -- with the syntax = highlighting for limbo. I think it's nice to have the option. I just = wish there was a nicely integrated source management system so I = wouldn't have to worry. -- rich From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 19 16:24:29 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 19 16:24:29 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 21550 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2001 16:33:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21546 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2001 16:33:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2001 16:33:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B9D4319A16; Tue, 19 Jun 2001 03:33:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.hispeed.net (mail.hispeed.com [209.145.61.245]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C0A00199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 19 Jun 2001 03:32:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from astro (210-54-224-113.adsl.xtra.co.nz [210.54.224.113]) by mail.hispeed.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id f5J7WN916662 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 19 Jun 2001 00:32:23 -0700 (PDT) From: "Richard Elberger" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: RE: [9fans] source code as data not text Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20010618184843.68F9819A00@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 19:36:41 +1200 Yes, I think my wording was too general. Yes, too many shells like sh and ksh, but I wasn't thinking a cmd line shell -- just would like to see a standard wrapper for the handling of code, how it maps to business (or other) process -- like if a "feature module" will be plugged in or not to the build, and how that is managed/operated, knowing where the code was coming from, what environment it was written in, what scenarios/environment it was unit tested in, etc ... a lot of things to track and imo it is all important (though varying in degrees of importance). Kind of like an app, but it is basically a software team's creative bucket -- a system that is self-enclosed and shares namespaces (be it source, devices, or workspaces). So much stuff and syntax checking is just part of an app that is part of what should be a consistent system to minimize risk. I already thought of styx, and how it would be excellent to leverage this for a full-on collaborative development environment. It would be a huge undertaking to create something like this, and it would be very exciting. -- rich >-----Original Message----- >From: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu [mailto:9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu]On Behalf >Of David Gordon Hogan >Sent: Tuesday, 19 June 2001 6:49 a.m. >To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >Subject: RE: [9fans] source code as data not text > > >> I would rather have code stored in a >> clustered rdbms that is accessed through its own shell [that is >> cross-platform like limbo] > >The last thing we need is another shell. > >What if the code were accessed through a file system interface >which is cross-platform? > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 19 17:24:36 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 19 17:24:36 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 23201 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2001 17:33:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23195 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2001 17:33:38 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2001 17:33:38 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 780D919A1A; Tue, 19 Jun 2001 04:33:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 74BD0199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 19 Jun 2001 04:32:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 15CGkt-0003kR-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 19 Jun 2001 09:20:59 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Randolph Fritz Message-ID: Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC References: , <200106181011.MAA04841@boris.cd.chalmers.se> Subject: Re: [9fans] Python on plan9 ? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: randolph@panix.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 08:20:53 GMT In article <200106181011.MAA04841@boris.cd.chalmers.se>, Laura Creighton wrote: > Kenji Arisawa arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp > > has another, I believe, but I can't find it now. As far as I know > both his port and Jeff Sargeant's (the > http://csociety-ftp.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/plan9/python) one have sockets > that don't quite work correctly .... and Jeff Sargeant told me that in mail > _yesterday_. > > There wasn't enough interest in python to get A Plan 9 Python Interest Group > started last time this came up: > http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&ic=1&th=c52fa45efe17d6c0,4&seekm=20010104044914.2A620199E3%40mail.cse.psu.edu#p > > (Goodness we need better encoding for Urls...) > > but I think we have enough interest now. Lets start one. > Sounds like a plan--now if only my Plan9 disk hadn't died. :-( Some current thoughts: - Does anyone have time to organize this? I had hoped to, but that has turned out to be wishful thinking on my part--I want to concentrate on school instead. - I have hope that the single-level build procedure in Python 2.1 will be more adaptable to Plan 9 than the previous multi-level make. - The most important first step, it seems to me, is to get the build going and get the fixes into Python 2.2, so that it becomes part of the standard release. - Two versions are probably needed; an APE version that will run Posix-dependent Python code and a native Plan 9 version. - Once the first step is done, it seems to me the next step would be to provide Python objects that encapsulate major Plan 9 elements. - It seems to me that the Pippy (Python for Palm) project, with its small virtual machine, could provide a base for small clients. - It needs a name. All my notes say "9thon," so that's my suggestion. Randolph From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 19 18:53:32 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 19 18:53:32 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 24811 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2001 19:02:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24807 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2001 19:02:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2001 19:02:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 75B4F19A1C; Tue, 19 Jun 2001 06:02:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.92]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 09A22199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 19 Jun 2001 06:01:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from whitecrow.demon.co.uk ([194.222.126.246] helo=localhost.localdomain) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15CIKG-000Kz1-0Y for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 19 Jun 2001 11:01:36 +0100 Received: from whitecrow (IDENT:steve@whitecrow [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA02827 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 22:31:03 +0100 Message-Id: <200106182131.WAA02827@localhost.localdomain> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] source code as data not text In-Reply-To: Message from David Gordon Hogan of "Mon, 18 Jun 2001 14:48:35 EDT." <20010618184843.68F9819A00@mail.cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Steve Kilbane Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 22:31:03 +0100 dhog: > What if the code were accessed through a file system interface > which is cross-platform? As has been pointed out, how something is stored isn't that relevant here; the issue is *what*, and the principle issue is whether your program is stored as ascii source, or as some other representation (that presumably adds additional structuring, else why bother?) If you're storing an ascii file, then whether you store it in a cvs-like system, an RDBMS or something entirely different isn't that much more important than whether it's stored in a file system that's on a local disk or a networked one: you may need to use special means to retrieve it, but that's your call. If it's plain ascii, and you've got an editor that can show pretty colours, then fine. I'm happy for you, and it doesn't mean that anything special has to be done to the file that'll stop it working on any other editor. If your source file is saved as something that represents additional structure, then I'd suggest you're using the wrong terminology: that's an object file, that's been compiled into another representation. From here on in, you need a special set of tools to interpret and manipulate the contents of that file. Regardless of the means by which you retrieved the file, it's effectively a black box to most of the surrounding system. As I've said for many a year, "standardise on file formats and protocols, and the applications take care of themselves." steve From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 19 19:39:29 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 19 19:39:29 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 25361 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2001 19:48:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25357 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2001 19:48:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2001 19:48:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9871E19A1F; Tue, 19 Jun 2001 06:48:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 36AFA199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 19 Jun 2001 06:47:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 15CIzT-000020-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 19 Jun 2001 11:44:11 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Rome Huang Message-ID: <9gn9om$8d5@netnews.hinet.net> Organization: DCI HiNet References: Subject: Re: [9fans] Inferno plug-in security Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 10:44:04 GMT How about Java Applet's security? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 19 22:54:28 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 19 22:54:28 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 27463 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2001 23:03:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27459 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2001 23:03:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2001 23:03:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9DE6F19A09; Tue, 19 Jun 2001 10:03:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from HKISRV06.teleware.fi (mail.teleware.fi [193.65.76.33]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4E243199F6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 19 Jun 2001 10:02:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hkisrv08.teleware.fi ([10.204.2.28]) by HKISRV06.teleware.fi with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.1600); Tue, 19 Jun 2001 17:02:10 +0300 content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: Re: [9fans] Inferno plug-in security MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.4417.0 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [9fans] Inferno plug-in security Thread-Index: AcD4yG6OUMTFxtSFQju3wGJ/8rjeKw== From: "Anssi Porttikivi" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Jun 2001 14:02:10.0214 (UTC) FILETIME=[6EC84460:01C0F8C8] Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 17:02:08 +0300 wrote in message news:<20010618153305.C69A519A08@mail.cse.psu.edu>... > //if all sensitive system access is through the file system, > //who cares about rogue Dis modules? >=20 > imagine i write a Limbo app that does nothing graphical, > provides no indication to the user that it's running, but > floods some site with network connections. Hmmm... the basic idea in all Plan 9 and Inferno is, that even network connections are services offered by directories which are called "file systems", the /net/tcp... etc. files. A Limbo application can not open a connection except by accessing the /net or /dev/ether or any of the other possible FILE SYSTEMs, like those "objects" are called in Plan 9 / Inferno parlance. See http://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/papers/styx.html, part "Example: networking". From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 20 01:54:35 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 20 01:54:35 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 29316 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2001 02:03:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29312 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2001 02:03:37 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2001 02:03:37 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8DCD219A0E; Tue, 19 Jun 2001 13:03:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EAC4E199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 19 Jun 2001 13:02:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 15COjU-0003E3-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 19 Jun 2001 17:52:04 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Barry Message-ID: <20010619115953.11977.00000092@ng-mq1.aol.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <20010618144644.BC35A199FF@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] source code as data not text Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 16:51:02 GMT >//I have no idea why close to every human being on the planet >//feels the compelling need to write their own strcmp... > >i think i could dig up a _few_ people who've never expressed any >desire to write a strcmp. >-. ... But I HAD to write my own strcmp(). No one understands me. "A word means exactly what I say it means." (misquoted from _Through the Looking Glass_ (?) by Lewis Carrol. ================================================================== Once a proud programmer of Apple II computers, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 20 02:05:27 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 20 02:05:27 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 29402 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2001 02:14:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29398 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2001 02:14:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2001 02:14:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D507E19A12; Tue, 19 Jun 2001 13:14:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cosym.net (sdsl-64-7-3-116.dsl.nyc.megapath.net [64.7.3.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3531519A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 19 Jun 2001 13:13:02 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Inferno plug-in security From: anothy@cosym.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20010619171302.3531519A05@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 13:12:44 -0400 //the basic idea in all Plan 9 and Inferno is, that even network connections //are services offered by directories which are called "file systems" you're correct, of cource. but think about it in terms of a normal file system, like local disk or such. different users have different permissions to different things, right? we can tell these users are different people because they have a certain key/passwd/response. without signing on a dis module, we face two problems, both of which exist in any system with no authentication. first, when someone does something we don't like, we don't know who to blame. if someone's doing things i don't like on my system, i want to know about it. similarly, if i load a dis module that does things i don't like, i want to know who wrote it and/or who gave it to me. second, without any reasonable method of telling who's who, if i want to restrict _someone_ from doing something, i have to restrict _everyone_. if, for example, i trust myself, VN, and the Labs to write modules that make network connections, but not anyone else, i need to tell who wrote a given module, right? otherwise it's all-or-none. i'm either too restrictive or too permissive. security consists of (at least?) two parts: authentication (who am i) and authorization (what can i do). the file system model is an excelent way of taking care of authorization, but something still needs to be done for authentication, so i can trust people are who they say they are. dis signing is one suggestion of how to do it. -α. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 20 03:24:32 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 20 03:24:32 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 29989 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2001 03:33:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29985 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2001 03:33:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2001 03:33:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8BEDC19A0C; Tue, 19 Jun 2001 14:33:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from quanstro.net (ninilchik.quanstro.net [216.27.138.42]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 94C4C199FE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 19 Jun 2001 14:32:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by quanstro.net (Postfix, from userid 210) id 732653EA0A; Tue, 19 Jun 2001 14:30:34 -0400 (EDT) To: anothy@cosym.net Cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: erik quanstrom Subject: Re: [9fans] Inferno plug-in security Message-Id: <20010619183034.732653EA0A@quanstro.net> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 14:30:34 -0400 (EDT) if i understand, you are addressing a situation like a web page which may have all kinds of unknown modules, etc. if that is the case, then i don't believe that signing is security. just because the module came from microsoft and was signed with the super-private microsoft key, doesn't mean that the module doesn't do things that you don't allow. hey, the key could have been stolen (what would be the chances ;-) or it might just be buggy (what would be the chances). i think that you are going to have to run dis modules loaded in a situation like a web browser into a sandbox that has very restricted premissions in order to avoid security issues. in that case, there's not much point to all the complication of signing. erik ---------------- //the basic idea in all Plan 9 and Inferno is, that even network connections //are services offered by directories which are called "file systems" you're correct, of cource. but think about it in terms of a normal file system, like local disk or such. different users have different permissions to different things, right? we can tell these users are different people because they have a certain key/passwd/response. without signing on a dis module, we face two problems, both of which exist in any system with no authentication. first, when someone does something we don't like, we don't know who to blame. if someone's doing things i don't like on my system, i want to know about it. similarly, if i load a dis module that does things i don't like, i want to know who wrote it and/or who gave it to me. second, without any reasonable method of telling who's who, if i want to restrict _someone_ from doing something, i have to restrict _everyone_. if, for example, i trust myself, VN, and the Labs to write modules that make network connections, but not anyone else, i need to tell who wrote a given module, right? otherwise it's all-or-none. i'm either too restrictive or too permissive. security consists of (at least?) two parts: authentication (who am i) and authorization (what can i do). the file system model is an excelent way of taking care of authorization, but something still needs to be done for authentication, so i can trust people are who they say they are. dis signing is one suggestion of how to do it. -α. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 20 05:51:33 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 20 05:51:33 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 30925 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2001 06:00:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30921 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2001 06:00:36 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2001 06:00:36 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 43AF119A0C; Tue, 19 Jun 2001 17:00:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.hispeed.net (mail.hispeed.com [209.145.61.245]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0C8BC199EF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 19 Jun 2001 16:59:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from astro (210-54-224-113.adsl.xtra.co.nz [210.54.224.113]) by mail.hispeed.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id f5JKxO929697 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 19 Jun 2001 13:59:24 -0700 (PDT) From: "Richard Elberger" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: RE: [9fans] source code as data not text Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200106182131.WAA02827@localhost.localdomain> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:03:42 +1200 > >As has been pointed out, how something is stored isn't that relevant >here; the issue is *what*, and the principle issue is whether your >program is stored as ascii source, or as some other representation >(that presumably adds additional structuring, else why bother?) > >If you're storing an ascii file, then whether you store it in >a cvs-like system, an RDBMS or something entirely different isn't >that much more important than whether it's stored in a file system >that's on a local disk or a networked one: you may need to use >special means to retrieve it, but that's your call. > How something is stored is very relevant to source management -- you'd better ask the operations folks who have to run the hardware and are responsible for maintaining data integrity. -- rich From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 20 05:54:27 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 20 05:54:27 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 30950 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2001 06:03:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30946 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2001 06:03:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2001 06:03:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 300E219A11; Tue, 19 Jun 2001 17:03:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dirty.research.bell-labs.com (dirty.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8CC78199EF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 19 Jun 2001 17:02:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bronx.dnrc.bell-labs.com ([135.180.160.8]) by dirty; Tue Jun 19 17:01:34 EDT 2001 Received: from mill.dnrc.belllabs.com (dharani.lra.lucent.com [135.255.42.172]) by bronx.dnrc.bell-labs.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA25543 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 19 Jun 2001 17:01:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001101c0f902$93f60a80$ac2aff87@dnrc.belllabs.com> From: "Dharani Vilwanathan" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010619183034.732653EA0A@quanstro.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Subject: [9fans] Highlighting in Acme Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 16:58:21 -0400 Hi, If I have to highlight a portion of text, say character 4 to 8 in line 5, in a window in Acme, how can I do it through Acme interface? Thanks dharani From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 20 15:28:37 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 20 15:28:37 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 9967 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2001 15:37:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9963 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2001 15:37:40 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2001 15:37:40 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 13FF4199E8; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 02:37:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9D22A199C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 02:36:28 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: F.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010620063628.9D22A199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] curious about a 9p2000 release Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 08:47:21 +0200 Hi, I was just wondering if what I suppose will be the next full release is likely to include both 9p2000 and the terminal/cpu kernel adapted to work as a fs kernel; or is it likely to include 9p2000 but not the fs stuff? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 20 17:24:29 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 20 17:24:29 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 14276 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2001 17:33:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14272 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2001 17:33:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2001 17:33:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B180A199FC; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 04:33:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 09BDF199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 04:32:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 15CdH2-0000y3-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:23:40 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Tiffany Peoples Message-ID: Organization: USENIX Subject: [9fans] Conference on File and Storage Systems (FAST) Call for Papers Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 08:23:22 GMT Conference on File and Storage Technologies (FAST 2002) January 28-29, 2002 Monterey, California, USA The FAST 2002 Program Committee invites you to contribute your ideas, proposals and papers for the invited talks program, refereed papers track, and Work-in-Progress Reports. We welcome submissions that address any and all issues relating to File and Storage Systems. Submission guidelines and suggested topics are now available at: http://www.usenix.org/events/fast/cfp/ Submissions are due July 13, 2001. We look forward to seeing you in Monterey in January 2002! Sincerely, Darrell Long, Program Chair ************* Additional information about FAST 2002: http://www.usenix.org/events/fast/ The FAST conference brings together the top storage systems researchers and practitioners to explore the design, implementation, and uses of storage systems. FAST will be the successor to IOPADS, which for several years was the top conference dedicated to parallel and distributed I/O systems. FAST 2002 will consist of two days of technical presentations, including refereed papers, invited talks, and an introductory keynote address. Work-in-progress presentations and informal Birds-of-a-Feather sessions will round out the conference experience allowing attendees to meet respected colleagues and provide valuable feedback. =================================================================== FAST 2002 is Co-sponsored by USENIX, The Advanced Computing Systems Association, ACM SIGOPS, IEEE TCOS and IEEE Mass Storage (pending) =================================================================== From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 20 18:20:26 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 20 18:20:26 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 15416 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2001 18:29:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15412 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2001 18:29:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2001 18:29:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3FB8D199FC; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 05:29:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id DEE3F199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 05:28:03 -0400 (EDT) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] curious about a 9p2000 release MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-vbjnvctoaijaypclccizfbiian" Message-Id: <20010620092803.DEE3F199DD@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 05:28:01 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-vbjnvctoaijaypclccizfbiian Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit definitely 9p2000, maybe the new fs --upas-vbjnvctoaijaypclccizfbiian Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Jun 20 02:37:31 EDT 2001 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Wed Jun 20 02:37:29 EDT 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 72A36199E3; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 02:37:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9D22A199C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 02:36:28 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: F.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010620063628.9D22A199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] curious about a 9p2000 release Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 08:47:21 +0200 Hi, I was just wondering if what I suppose will be the next full release is likely to include both 9p2000 and the terminal/cpu kernel adapted to work as a fs kernel; or is it likely to include 9p2000 but not the fs stuff? --upas-vbjnvctoaijaypclccizfbiian-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 20 18:31:29 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 20 18:31:29 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 15641 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2001 18:40:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15637 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2001 18:40:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2001 18:40:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2B20019A03; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 05:40:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nwaples.btinternet.co.uk (CPE-61-9-176-81.vic.bigpond.net.au [61.9.176.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 72EE9199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 05:39:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 1045 invoked by uid 1000); 20 Jun 2001 09:39:30 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 20 Jun 2001 09:39:30 -0000 From: Nicholas Waples X-X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] VGA Riva TNT2 Problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 19:39:30 +1000 (EST) On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, chicobaud wrote: > I wanted to try Plan9. > I have a problem with the installation because of my Graphics card - nVidia > Riva TNT2 Model64. > Can you give me a little help with this ? > Chico > 17/Jun/2001 > well go to Plan9 wiki http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/ and have a look at the link 'Using the NVidia TNT Chipset'. Other than that, you need do me a bit more specific on what your problems are. Nick From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 20 18:48:27 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 20 18:48:27 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 15948 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2001 18:57:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15944 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2001 18:57:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2001 18:57:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0666519A03; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 05:57:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 09DB8199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 05:56:25 -0400 (EDT) From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] curious about a 9p2000 release MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010620095625.09DB8199DD@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 05:56:22 -0400 On Wed Jun 20 02:37:31 EDT 2001, nemo@gsyc.escet.urjc.es wrote: > Hi, > > I was just wondering if what I suppose > will be the next full release is likely to include > both 9p2000 and the terminal/cpu kernel adapted > to work as a fs kernel; or is it likely to > include 9p2000 but not the fs stuff? > by then it'll be 9p3000... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 20 19:05:26 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 20 19:05:26 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 16223 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2001 19:14:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16219 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2001 19:14:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2001 19:14:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5DC1A19A06; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 06:14:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 79DDC199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 06:13:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from whitecrow.demon.co.uk ([194.222.126.246] helo=localhost.localdomain) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15Cezo-0007ur-0X for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:14:00 +0100 Received: from whitecrow (IDENT:steve@whitecrow [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA08017 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 19 Jun 2001 22:31:46 +0100 Message-Id: <200106192131.WAA08017@localhost.localdomain> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] source code as data not text In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:03:42 +1200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Steve Kilbane Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 22:31:46 +0100 > How something is stored is very relevant to source management Sigh. I was trying to clarify the issues, but obviously failed. I'll try a different tack. The discussion started off with syntax-directed editors, picked up issues concerned with proprietary file formats, and then moved into proprietary repositories versus things with a file-system. My apologies for over-simplifying. My point was merely this: given a file that contains some representation of source, the issues of the file's internal structure, the structure of the repository that holds the file, and the how the file's contents are rendered to the user are distinct issues and should not be confused. The storage system is not relevant in all cases, but in the discussion of what you do with a file _once you've retrieved it from the storage system_, it is. steve From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 20 19:30:28 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 20 19:30:28 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 16756 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2001 19:39:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16752 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2001 19:39:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2001 19:39:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DD60719A0A; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 06:39:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from presto.hci-net (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 151BA199C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 06:38:08 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Highlighting in Acme From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010620103808.151BA199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:46:57 +0100 bell-labs.com!dharani wrote: > If I have to highlight a portion of text, say character 4 to 8 in line 5, in > a window in Acme, how can I do it through Acme interface? when you say "Acme interface" i don't know whether you mean the Acme user interface or the Acme program (filesystem) interface. you've chosen a task that's possible, but not elegant from the user interface: right button click on the text: :5-#0+#4,5-#0+#8 or alternatively: :5-#0+#4;+#4 you can give an arbitrary sam-style address there. given that the Limbo compiler holds file positions in line.charpos format, i was considering adding a hack to my local acme that would understand: :5.4,5.8 and then the compiler could spit out more detailed positions that acme could understand (having the compiler spit out: file.b:100-#0+#20,101-#0+#30: some error seems a bit uncomfortable). if you want to do this through the filesystem interface, write the address to the addr file, and write "dot=addr" to the ctl file. read the manual. cheers, rog. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 20 20:53:26 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 20 20:53:26 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 17949 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2001 21:02:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17945 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2001 21:02:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2001 21:02:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0859B19A0C; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 08:02:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from HKISRV06.teleware.fi (mail.teleware.fi [193.65.76.33]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8BC6C199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 08:01:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hkisrv08.teleware.fi ([10.204.2.28]) by HKISRV06.teleware.fi with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.1600); Wed, 20 Jun 2001 15:01:04 +0300 content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: Re: [9fans] Inferno plug-in security MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.4417.0 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [9fans] Inferno plug-in security Thread-Index: AcD5gK8x6wPp2kqESne2+H+RhhoWOg== From: "Anssi Porttikivi" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Jun 2001 12:01:04.0246 (UTC) FILETIME=[AE574960:01C0F980] Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 15:01:05 +0300 wrote in message news:<20010619171302.3531519A05@mail.cse.psu.edu>... > //the basic idea in all Plan 9 and Inferno is, that even network connections > //are services offered by directories which are called "file systems" >=20 ... >different users have different permissions to different > things, right? we can tell these users are different people because they have a > certain key/passwd/response. without signing on a dis module, we face two > problems, both of which exist in any system with no authentication... Certainly, you are right. But the first and easy step for Inferno plug-in security is to let the Web browser user decide, what "objects" are bound to the name space. Implementing or installing a good selection of inheritance hierarchy of "directory objects" the user can choose at will, and interactively, at the precision of his liking, what the plug-in is EXACTLY allowed to do. Besides, it would be fairly easy to allow the user to configure different Inferno user id's and choose, which identity a plug-in is allowed to use. Of course there will be a further, advanced need for module signing. That is why module signning was designed to be part of Inferno. But in Inferno/Plan 9 you can have an exact control on a set of resources an untrusted module is allowed to access. Not a sandbox, but a custom built playing field bildable with "bind -a" From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 20 21:00:24 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 20 21:00:24 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 18021 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2001 21:09:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18017 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2001 21:09:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2001 21:09:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C1D5319A12; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 08:09:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (mta05-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.45]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B8A77199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 08:08:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010620120849.JLZJ284.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 13:08:49 +0100 Message-ID: <004301c0f981$ad088cd0$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] Inferno plug-in security MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 13:08:11 +0100 > But in Inferno/Plan 9 you can have an exact control on a set of > resources an untrusted module is allowed to access. Not a sandbox, but a > custom built playing field bildable with "bind -a" defaulting to what we have now, so scrollers and the like don't "bother" you asking for permission to access the display. Well, that's that solved ;) just the backspace key to go now M From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 20 22:49:33 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 20 22:49:33 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19456 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2001 22:58:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19452 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2001 22:58:37 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2001 22:58:37 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA7E419A14; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:58:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cosym.net (sdsl-64-7-3-116.dsl.nyc.megapath.net [64.7.3.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id D27D0199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:57:35 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Inferno plug-in security From: anothy@cosym.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20010620135735.D27D0199DD@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:57:25 -0400 anssi wrote: //Certainly, you are right. oh, good. //But the first and easy step for Inferno plug-in security is to let the Web //browser user decide, what "objects" are bound to the name space. i guess. i don't relly have any opinion as to which is more important or should be there first, authentiction or authorization. it doesn't seem like building a namespace defined per-module is really useful without reliably knowing who that module is. well, there's always a default case, but as i said earlier, that either ends up being too restrictive or too permissive. still, you are correct in that the 'build a namespace' part of the problem is an effective way to address the authorization issue, is a needed step, and is probably more easialy solved. eric wrote: //...you are addressing a situation like a web page which may have all //kinds of unknown modules... yes, that's one example. but even a web page with one module has the same issues behind it. //...then i don't believe that signing is security. just because the module //came from microsoft and was signed with the super-private microsoft //key, doesn't mean that the module doesn't do things that you don't allow. oh, more acuratly, if it came from microsoft, it probably means it _does_ do things i don't like. ☺ but sure, we don't want to allow _any_ module signed by _anyone_ to do _anything_, just because it's signed. but i probably trust modules written by me to do pretty much anything - make network connections, write to my display, access local files, whatever. same with modules written by VN, the Labs, or a few other individuals. on the other hand, i probably don't trust modules from M$ or people i've never heard of to do much - say, no network connections, no looking at local files. in order to tell which permissions to use - which sandbox to construct - i need to know who i'm dealing with. of cource, this is much harder than simply defining a restrictive sandbox for all modules to play in (which is basically what we've got now). maybe a simpler alternative would be that when loading a module, a box pops up with a series of check boxes for things like "make network connections" and "access local files", determining what this module can do? simpler than the user constructing a custom namespace for each module. -α. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 20 23:03:26 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 20 23:03:26 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19708 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2001 23:12:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19704 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2001 23:12:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2001 23:12:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0362E19A1E; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 10:12:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mallorn.advancedsolutions.com (mallorn.advancedsolutions.com [216.3.74.86]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B889F199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 10:11:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucho@localhost) by mallorn.advancedsolutions.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA32732 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 10:11:05 -0400 From: Latchesar Ionkov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20010620101105.A32668@gmx.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i Subject: [9fans] calling function with (variable number of) parameters Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 10:11:05 -0400 Hi, I am trying to write a function int callf(void *f, int nargs, int *args) f is a pointer to a function of a type int f(int, int, int, ..., int) callf should copy nargs number of ints from args to the stack and call f, and then return f's return value. The requirement is to not restrict nargs -- theoretically f can have 1000+ arguments. Is this possible with Plan9 C calling convention? The caller function saves the registers that it needs (obviously in the stack), then SP is modified with a non-constant value, f is called, and after the execution returns in callf, there is no any way go guess, what that value was. Do I miss something? Any ideas how to implement it? Unfortunately I don't have any control on the requirements or the way f gets its parameters. If there is no way to do it for any number of args, I'll limit nargs (and hope nobody will write function with more than 15 arguments) and will modify SP with a constant value. Thanks, Lucho From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 21 01:45:24 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 21 01:45:24 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 21227 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2001 01:54:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21223 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2001 01:54:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2001 01:54:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A31C19A13; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 12:54:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 239B119A0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 12:53:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 15CksN-0006h5-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 17:30:43 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3B30C7C8.6A412F9E@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20010620101105.A32668@gmx.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] calling function with (variable number of) parameters Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 16:30:21 GMT Latchesar Ionkov wrote: > I am trying to write a function > int callf(void *f, int nargs, int *args) > f is a pointer to a function of a type > int f(int, int, int, ..., int) No, it isn't; at least, not as you have declared callf. Also, that is not a proper variadic declaration for the type of f. I think what you mean is that the actual function definition uses a *fixed* number of arguments, different for different values of f, and you're hoping that the passed nargs happens to be consistent with the function that the passed f points to. > callf should copy nargs number of ints from args to the stack and call f, > and then return f's return value. > Is this possible with Plan9 C calling convention? ... > Do I miss something? Any ideas how to implement it? It's an abuse of C under any linkage convention. > Unfortunately I don't have any control on the requirements or the way f gets > its parameters. If there is no way to do it for any number of args, I'll > limit nargs (and hope nobody will write function with more than 15 > arguments) and will modify SP with a constant value. That will probably be your best bet. Other solutions would require changes to the interface. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 21 03:16:24 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 21 03:16:24 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 21908 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2001 03:25:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21904 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2001 03:25:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2001 03:25:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6F29E19A1A; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 14:25:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mallorn.advancedsolutions.com (mallorn.advancedsolutions.com [216.3.74.86]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3E34D19A13 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 14:24:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucho@localhost) by mallorn.advancedsolutions.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA01412 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 14:23:59 -0400 From: Latchesar Ionkov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] calling function with (variable number of) parameters Message-ID: <20010620142359.A1367@gmx.net> References: <20010620101105.A32668@gmx.net> <3B30C7C8.6A412F9E@null.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <3B30C7C8.6A412F9E@null.net>; from DAGwyn@null.net on Wed, Jun 20, 2001 at 04:30:21PM +0000 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 14:23:59 -0400 On Wed, Jun 20, 2001 at 04:30:21PM +0000, Douglas A. Gwyn said: > Latchesar Ionkov wrote: > > I am trying to write a function > > int callf(void *f, int nargs, int *args) > > f is a pointer to a function of a type > > int f(int, int, int, ..., int) > > No, it isn't; at least, not as you have declared callf. > > Also, that is not a proper variadic declaration for the type of f. > I think what you mean is that the actual function definition uses > a *fixed* number of arguments, different for different values of > f, and you're hoping that the passed nargs happens to be > consistent with the function that the passed f points to. You understood what I meant, which was the purpose of the two pseudo declarations. > > callf should copy nargs number of ints from args to the stack and call f, > > and then return f's return value. > > > Is this possible with Plan9 C calling convention? ... > > Do I miss something? Any ideas how to implement it? > > It's an abuse of C under any linkage convention. I know, but that knowledge doesn't help me. > > Unfortunately I don't have any control on the requirements or the way f gets > > its parameters. If there is no way to do it for any number of args, I'll > > limit nargs (and hope nobody will write function with more than 15 > > arguments) and will modify SP with a constant value. > > That will probably be your best bet. > Other solutions would require changes to the interface. The interface is called JNI and I can't change it. Lucho From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 21 04:34:24 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 21 04:34:24 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22411 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2001 04:43:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22407 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2001 04:43:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2001 04:43:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CCBC619A1A; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 15:43:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from presto.hci-net (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 96D3D199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 15:42:18 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] calling function with (variable number of) parameters From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010620194218.96D3D199DD@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 20:51:03 +0100 > The interface is called JNI and I can't change it. presumably you could write a bit of assembler to get around the problem. you'd have to do it for each platform, but it wouldn't be hard and as far as i can see there wouldn't be a problem doing it: just push all the args on the stack (last first) & call the fn. cheers, rog. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 21 04:46:25 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 21 04:46:25 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22485 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2001 04:55:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22481 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2001 04:55:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2001 04:55:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A7A919A26; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 15:55:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mallorn.advancedsolutions.com (mallorn.advancedsolutions.com [216.3.74.86]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB9E919A13 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 15:54:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucho@localhost) by mallorn.advancedsolutions.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA01677 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 15:54:21 -0400 From: Latchesar Ionkov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] calling function with (variable number of) parameters Message-ID: <20010620155421.A1669@gmx.net> References: <20010620194218.96D3D199DD@mail.cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20010620194218.96D3D199DD@mail.cse.psu.edu>; from rog@vitanuova.com on Wed, Jun 20, 2001 at 08:51:03PM +0100 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 15:54:21 -0400 On Wed, Jun 20, 2001 at 08:51:03PM +0100, rog@vitanuova.com said: > > The interface is called JNI and I can't change it. > > presumably you could write a bit of assembler to get around the > problem. you'd have to do it for each platform, but it wouldn't be hard > and as far as i can see there wouldn't be a problem doing it: just push > all the args on the stack (last first) & call the fn. I've already tried to write it in assembler. The problem is that after the function returns, I don't know how many args I have to pop from the stack. And I can't get the number from a local variable, because I don't know the frame pointer anymore (I modified SP pushing the args before I called the function). Thanks, Lucho From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 21 15:05:30 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 21 15:05:30 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 720 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2001 15:14:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 716 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2001 15:14:36 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2001 15:14:36 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A937A199DD; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 02:14:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from subito.home.cs.york.ac.uk (caldo.demon.co.uk [194.222.207.148]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0050D199C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 02:13:29 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010621061330.0050D199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] Netgear FA311TX (NS DP83815) ether Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 07:09:18 +0100 if anyone has got one of these cards, i've got a driver i'm now testing. let me know if you've got a card and would like to try it. i've only tested on a 10/100 Netgear hub and (later today) on a 10/100 Netgear switch. since it's an all-in-one chip, it might work with other NS83815 cards with minor changes. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 21 17:39:24 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 21 17:39:24 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 4419 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2001 17:48:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4414 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2001 17:48:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2001 17:48:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A014F199E4; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 04:48:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CDA2C199C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 04:47:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 15D028-0003rk-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 09:41:48 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Hermann Samso Message-ID: <9gr0sk$skj$1@newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de> Organization: Universitaet Hannover References: <9gion2$8ks$1@newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de>, Subject: Re: [9fans] Wiki update, FAQ? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 08:41:31 GMT pac wrote: > I think Wiki pages are updated immediately. Just read them from the web instead of the cache. > Shift+Reload does it in Netscape. Or have I missed the point? > Cheers, Peter. You're right. I forgot to include the index.html at the end of the URL tag. So, now, if any of you are willing to take minute to enter your system specs in the supported hardware page :-)... http://cm.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/44/index.html ~hermann samso From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 21 21:47:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 21 21:47:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 7887 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2001 21:56:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7883 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2001 21:56:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2001 21:56:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 81873199E6; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 08:56:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B5BFC199C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 08:55:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 15D3m4-0002dH-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 13:41:28 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3B31E39D.F4C8AFF8@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20010620194218.96D3D199DD@mail.cse.psu.edu>, <20010620155421.A1669@gmx.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] calling function with (variable number of) parameters Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 12:39:50 GMT Latchesar Ionkov wrote: > function returns, I don't know how many args I have to pop from the stack. > And I can't get the number from a local variable, because I don't know the > frame pointer anymore So use a global variable. It's already a crock anyway.. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 21 22:13:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 21 22:13:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 8114 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2001 22:22:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8109 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2001 22:22:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2001 22:22:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E294E199EB; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 09:22:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 066BE199C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 09:21:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 15D4Bo-0003Nm-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 14:08:04 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Barry Message-ID: <20010621090137.17749.00000597@ng-cg1.aol.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <20010620095625.09DB8199DD@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] curious about a 9p2000 release Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 13:07:06 GMT > > I was just wondering if what I suppose > will be the next full release is likely to include > both 9p2000 and the terminal/cpu kernel adapted > to work as a fs kernel; or is it likely to > include 9p2000 but not the fs stuff? > (Reply to Message Above) > >by then it'll be 9p3000... > Uh.... So, there's going to be 9pME (Millenium Edition) ? Did Bill buy most of the stock of some computer/communications research corporation that we know ? ================================================================== Once a proud programmer of Apple II computers, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 21 22:41:21 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 21 22:41:21 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 8366 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2001 22:50:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8362 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2001 22:50:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2001 22:50:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 35A13199ED; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 09:50:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mallorn.advancedsolutions.com (mallorn.advancedsolutions.com [216.3.74.86]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0D723199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 09:49:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucho@localhost) by mallorn.advancedsolutions.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA02486 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 09:48:58 -0400 From: Latchesar Ionkov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] calling function with (variable number of) parameters Message-ID: <20010621094858.A2471@gmx.net> References: <20010620194218.96D3D199DD@mail.cse.psu.edu>, <20010620155421.A1669@gmx.net> <3B31E39D.F4C8AFF8@null.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <3B31E39D.F4C8AFF8@null.net>; from DAGwyn@null.net on Thu, Jun 21, 2001 at 12:39:50PM +0000 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 09:48:58 -0400 On Thu, Jun 21, 2001 at 12:39:50PM +0000, Douglas A. Gwyn said: > Latchesar Ionkov wrote: > > function returns, I don't know how many args I have to pop from the stack. > > And I can't get the number from a local variable, because I don't know the > > frame pointer anymore > > So use a global variable. It's already a crock anyway.. the function has to be reentrant. thanks for all the suggestions. obviously i'll reserve constant space in the stack for the arguments. Lucho From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 21 23:02:24 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 21 23:02:24 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 8542 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2001 23:11:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8538 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2001 23:11:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2001 23:11:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 33680199F0; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:11:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 42D56199EB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:10:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12001 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:10:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id KAA16118; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:10:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200106211410.KAA16118@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Netgear FA311TX (NS DP83815) ether Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <20010621061330.0050D199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:10:29 -0400 (EDT) In article <20010621061330.0050D199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu> you write: >if anyone has got one of these cards, i've got >a driver i'm now testing. let me know if you've got a card and would >like to try it. i've only tested on a 10/100 Netgear hub >and (later today) on a 10/100 Netgear switch. >since it's an all-in-one chip, it might work with other >NS83815 cards with minor changes. Oh, dude, you're kidding. I just wrote a driver for the SiS900 Ethernet chip, which (if the BSD driver is any indication) is mostly compatable with the NS83815. My understanding is that the 83815 is a rebranded SiS900 with some small differences. You aren't by chance working on a SiS530 graphics dirver, are you? I am now working on the mostly compatable SiS5597. ;-) - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 21 23:05:21 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 21 23:05:21 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 8566 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2001 23:14:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8562 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2001 23:14:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2001 23:14:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2232C199F3; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:14:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 68133199EB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:13:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12488 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:13:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id KAA16146; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:13:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200106211413.KAA16146@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] calling function with (variable number of) parameters Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <20010620155421.A1669@gmx.net> References: <20010620194218.96D3D199DD@mail.cse.psu.edu> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:13:57 -0400 (EDT) In article <20010620155421.A1669@gmx.net> you write: >I've already tried to write it in assembler. The problem is that after the >function returns, I don't know how many args I have to pop from the stack. >And I can't get the number from a local variable, because I don't know the >frame pointer anymore (I modified SP pushing the args before I called the >function). So save space for n + 1 parameters on the stack; the last won't be used by your called function, and you could store the number of parameters in it. When you return, pop the last item off the stack, and use that to recalculate the frame pointer. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 21 23:16:21 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 21 23:16:21 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 8655 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2001 23:25:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8651 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2001 23:25:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2001 23:25:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 921E1199F5; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:25:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from presto.hci-net (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id D9AFF199EB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:24:23 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] calling function with (variable number of) parameters From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010621142423.D9AFF199EB@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 15:33:15 +0100 > So save space for n + 1 parameters on the stack; the last won't be used > by your called function, and you could store the number of parameters in > it. When you return, pop the last item off the stack, and use that to > recalculate the frame pointer. no actually, parameters are pushed on last first, so the last one you've pushed (the one you've got access after the return) is the first parameter to the function (which doesn't expect it). i think that probably the only way of getting around the problem is to change the prototype of the called function so that the first parameter signifies the number of parameters. the only other alternative is if the function is guaranteed to be non-reentrant (fat chance) in which case you could store the number of params in a static variable. of course, that then makes it incompatible with the original... cheers, rog. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 21 23:35:22 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 21 23:35:22 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 8826 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2001 23:44:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8822 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2001 23:44:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2001 23:44:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 99FA3199F7; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:44:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from workbench.borf.com (unknown [205.185.197.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id CBD1F199EB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:43:01 -0400 (EDT) From: bwc@borf.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010621144301.CBD1F199EB@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] Motorola ColdFire compiler Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 09:29:20 -0400 Has anyone done modified the complier stuff for the Motorola ColdFire? I was going to do it about a year ago, but decided to write that particlular system in assembler. (Worked great, ran fast, was small system.) No, however, I need C for a similar box. If no one's done it, I'll do it. I'll use the letter `F' and the string 5200 for the name of the architecture unless anyone else has a better idea. (There was some reason not to use the string `ColdFire', but I don't remember why. Charles? Brantley Coile bwc@borf.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 22 00:08:22 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 22 00:08:22 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 9117 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Jun 2001 00:17:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9113 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2001 00:17:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Jun 2001 00:17:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B75D1199F7; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 11:17:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0C013199EB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 11:16:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21416 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 11:16:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id LAA16497; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 11:16:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200106211516.LAA16497@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] calling function with (variable number of) parameters Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <20010621142423.D9AFF199EB@mail.cse.psu.edu> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 11:16:18 -0400 (EDT) In article <20010621142423.D9AFF199EB@mail.cse.psu.edu> you write: >no actually, parameters are pushed on last first, so the last one >you've pushed (the one you've got access after the return) is the first >parameter to the function (which doesn't expect it). Oh, yeah; dang, I was thinking backwards. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 22 00:09:21 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 22 00:09:21 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 9126 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Jun 2001 00:18:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9122 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2001 00:18:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Jun 2001 00:18:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6009D19A0C; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 11:18:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mallorn.advancedsolutions.com (mallorn.advancedsolutions.com [216.3.74.86]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0CEC219A03 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 11:17:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucho@localhost) by mallorn.advancedsolutions.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA02730 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 11:17:12 -0400 From: Latchesar Ionkov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] calling function with (variable number of) parameters Message-ID: <20010621111712.A2711@gmx.net> References: <20010621142423.D9AFF199EB@mail.cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20010621142423.D9AFF199EB@mail.cse.psu.edu>; from rog@vitanuova.com on Thu, Jun 21, 2001 at 03:33:15PM +0100 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 11:17:12 -0400 Both suggestions are not really alternatives in that case. I am trying to implement already defined interface, I don't have control on the way the called functions are declared and they are definitely reentrant. :(( I can, though, hope that nobody in his mind will wrote a function with more that 15 arguments. Then reserve space for 15 integers in the stack, put as many argument as needed, call the function and remove 15 integers from the stack. Of course I'll check and signall error if somebody is crazy enough to try to use the code with more than 15 arguments. Thanks again, Lucho On Thu, Jun 21, 2001 at 03:33:15PM +0100, rog@vitanuova.com said: > > So save space for n + 1 parameters on the stack; the last won't be used > > by your called function, and you could store the number of parameters in > > it. When you return, pop the last item off the stack, and use that to > > recalculate the frame pointer. > > no actually, parameters are pushed on last first, so the last one > you've pushed (the one you've got access after the return) is the first > parameter to the function (which doesn't expect it). > > i think that probably the only way of getting around the problem is to > change the prototype of the called function so that the first parameter > signifies the number of parameters. > > the only other alternative is if the function is guaranteed to be > non-reentrant (fat chance) in which case you could store the number of > params in a static variable. > > of course, that then makes it incompatible with the original... > > cheers, > rog. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 22 01:56:30 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 22 01:56:30 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 9784 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Jun 2001 02:05:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9780 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2001 02:05:37 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Jun 2001 02:05:37 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5FFAF199F5; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 13:05:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 990CD1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 13:04:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 15D7bF-0002Ax-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 17:46:33 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Rome Huang Message-ID: <9gsfgp$bk6@netnews.hinet.net> Organization: DCI HiNet References: Subject: Re: [9fans] Inferno plug-in security Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 16:46:19 GMT I think before a secure way emerged, Vita should release a middle version with a restricted networking capability, maybe restrict access to download site only. ~Rome. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 22 15:59:32 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 22 15:59:32 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 23517 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Jun 2001 16:08:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23513 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2001 16:08:41 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Jun 2001 16:08:41 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9AAA419A0C; Fri, 22 Jun 2001 03:08:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cejchan.gli.cas.cz (cejchan.gli.cas.cz [147.231.139.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 13ED41998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 22 Jun 2001 03:07:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cej by cejchan.gli.cas.cz with local (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 15DLBB-00049g-00; Fri, 22 Jun 2001 09:16:33 +0200 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: cej@cejchan.gli.cas.cz Message-Id: X-Mailer: TkMail 4.0beta9 From: pac Subject: [9fans] C++ compiler anyone? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 09:16:33 +0200 Hi, does anyone have a functional C++ compiler for Release 3? -- Peter A. Cejchan Dept. Paleobiology, Inst. Geology Acad. Sci., Rozvojova 135, Prague 6 CZ-16502 Czech Republic ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ C++ is to C as lung cancer is to lung :-) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 25 08:55:49 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 25 08:55:49 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 17166 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2001 09:05:05 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17159 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2001 09:05:04 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2001 09:05:04 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A21119A12; Sat, 23 Jun 2001 02:50:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cosym.net (sdsl-64-7-3-116.dsl.nyc.megapath.net [64.7.3.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id D46B719A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 23 Jun 2001 02:49:50 -0400 (EDT) From: anothy@cosym.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20010623064950.D46B719A0B@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] FreeBSD il/9p patches for 4.2 kernel? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 02:49:46 -0400 anyone got an update to the il/9p patches to the FreeBSD kernel provided in the Plan 9 release? they're for 3.2, but there's at least 4.2 shipping boxed, and the current kernel work's on 5.0. dong@research.bell-labs.com (the contact provided in the current release) says he thinks some 9fan is working on a 4.2 patch. so anyone got any news? -α. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 25 08:55:50 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 25 08:55:50 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 17180 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2001 09:05:06 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17167 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2001 09:05:05 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2001 09:05:05 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BEB3C199FE; Sun, 24 Jun 2001 17:54:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cassie.foobarbaz.net (195.mudb.snfc.snfccafj.dsl.att.net [12.99.91.195]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B868C199EA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 24 Jun 2001 17:53:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 61177 invoked by uid 1000); 24 Jun 2001 21:48:00 -0000 From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] FreeBSD il/9p patches for 4.2 kernel? Message-ID: <20010624144800.C63362@cassie.foobarbaz.net> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20010623064950.D46B719A0B@mail.cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010623064950.D46B719A0B@mail.cse.psu.edu>; from anothy@cosym.net on Sat, Jun 23, 2001 at 02:49:46AM -0400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 14:48:00 -0700 On Sat, Jun 23, 2001 at 02:49:46AM -0400, anothy@cosym.net wrote: > anyone got an update to the il/9p patches to the FreeBSD kernel > provided in the Plan 9 release? they're for 3.2, but there's at > least 4.2 shipping boxed, and the current kernel work's on 5.0. > dong@research.bell-labs.com (the contact provided in the current > release) says he thinks some 9fan is working on a 4.2 patch. so > anyone got any news? I started working on patches for both -current and -stable, but I haven't had time to work on them recently due to changing jobs and having too much work to do. I'm trying to find the time to finish them, but I can't really say when that will be. -- Christopher Nielsen - Metal-wielding pyro techie cnielsen@pobox.com "Any technology indistinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced." --unknown From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 25 08:55:51 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 25 08:55:51 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 17194 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2001 09:05:07 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17185 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2001 09:05:06 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2001 09:05:06 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 23F0119A04; Sun, 24 Jun 2001 18:05:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from irixbum.ca (h24-71-120-89.ss.shawcable.net [24.71.120.89]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AFF12199FB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 24 Jun 2001 18:04:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aam396@localhost) by irixbum.ca (SGI-8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24310 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 24 Jun 2001 16:04:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: irixbum.ca: aam396 owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski X-Sender: aam396@irixbum.ca To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] sam vs acme Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 16:04:02 -0700 hello, would anyone recommend using 'sam' as the editor of choice for p9? the problem with acme is that it's not generally available for other platforms, and if one chooses to use acme as the $EDITOR, s/he is stuck with switching back/forth to something else for all other platforms. i know there's wily for linux/bsd and i've already happily compiled sam on my irix box, so before i jump into learning it i'd like to know how useful it is for managing relatively large and numerous source files. is sam good for medium/semi-large projects? i myself am a 'vi' user so the 'regular expresiveness' of sam is ok with me. thanx: andrey ps: i guess my question is geared towards non-bell-labs people, since they would be the ones useing other OS's From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 25 08:55:52 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 25 08:55:52 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 17199 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2001 09:05:07 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17187 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2001 09:05:06 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2001 09:05:06 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 15C9E19A08; Sun, 24 Jun 2001 18:15:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (mta07-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.47]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B611A19A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 24 Jun 2001 18:14:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010624221436.MFFN283.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 24 Jun 2001 23:14:36 +0100 Message-ID: <001501c0fcfb$138bbe10$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] sam vs acme MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 23:14:45 +0100 acme is available in inferno which can be hosted on an OS. www.vitanuova.com/inferno ----- Original Message ----- From: "andrey mirtchovski" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 12:04 AM Subject: [9fans] sam vs acme > hello, > > would anyone recommend using 'sam' as the editor of choice for p9? the > problem with acme is that it's not generally available for other platforms, > and if one chooses to use acme as the $EDITOR, s/he is stuck with switching > back/forth to something else for all other platforms. > > i know there's wily for linux/bsd and i've already happily compiled sam on > my irix box, so before i jump into learning it i'd like to know how useful > it is for managing relatively large and numerous source files. > > is sam good for medium/semi-large projects? > > i myself am a 'vi' user so the 'regular expresiveness' of sam is ok with me. > > > thanx: andrey > > ps: i guess my question is geared towards non-bell-labs people, since they > would be the ones useing other OS's > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 25 08:55:52 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 25 08:55:52 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 17203 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2001 09:05:07 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17189 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2001 09:05:07 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2001 09:05:07 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6CE7319A0F; Sun, 24 Jun 2001 18:34:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [130.203.12.17] (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4530019A09 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 24 Jun 2001 18:33:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 5373 invoked by uid 991); 24 Jun 2001 22:33:34 -0000 Message-ID: <20010624223334.5371.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sam vs acme In-Reply-To: Message from andrey mirtchovski of "Sun, 24 Jun 2001 16:04:02 PDT." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 18:33:34 -0400 | would anyone recommend using 'sam' as the editor of choice for p9? It's not bad. Sometimes acme is better, but I don't mind using both. (Except that plumbing can get confused.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 25 09:40:50 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 25 09:40:50 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 23168 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2001 09:50:05 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23164 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2001 09:50:05 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2001 09:50:05 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A5D7C19A13; Sun, 24 Jun 2001 20:29:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cosym.net (sdsl-64-7-3-116.dsl.nyc.megapath.net [64.7.3.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2151519A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 24 Jun 2001 20:28:48 -0400 (EDT) From: anothy@cosym.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sam vs acme MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20010625002848.2151519A05@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 20:28:37 -0400 thanks to the Edit functions now being in Acme, there are three things i find to be advantages in sam: sam -r very nice over connections with limited bandwidth. the entire file needn't travel over the line, just whatever part you're looking at currently. works great in plan9→unix (my method for editing files on a solaris box i manage while at home, over my 56K modem) and in unix→unix modes. i don't believe win32 can be on either end of this, which is disapointing. a co-manage this solaris box with a windows user, and i'd love for him to be able to call sam, so i could stop getting all these stupid cr's in my files. text mode with sam -d acme has no command line mode (that concept doesn't really make much sense). in cases like editing files before vga is up on plan 9 or telnet'd into a remote box, sam -d is great. it's also an improvement (IMHO) over ed or sed for scripts, in that it's less tied to the idea of a line, and can better operate on arbitrary character ranges. cross platform sam's available on plan 9, win32, and posix+X. acme's only available in plan 9 and inferno. as noted earlier, inferno runs on most popular unixes and win32, and one could easialy set up inferno for easy access to the underlying files. then you could use acme most anywhere. you might think it's a bit much work for an editor, but it's doable. it's a judgement call. other than that, i think acme is a much superior editor, even without all the other benefits it gives. i find it to be a much cleaner interface for multiple files, and the chording is a huge win (IMHO; it's not for everyone). chording's probably what i miss most in sam. that also makes acme more consistant with rio, a win for plan 9 users. for one-off file editing, i've finally moved from 'sam file' to 'acme file' - my big complaint there being that acme still pops up the empty second column, wasting screen space. wily is a good effort, but is far inferior. i don't like using it. -α. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 25 10:00:15 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 25 10:00:15 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 24328 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2001 10:09:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24324 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2001 10:09:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2001 10:09:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 315FE19A05; Sun, 24 Jun 2001 21:09:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A8691199EA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 24 Jun 2001 21:08:45 -0400 (EDT) From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sam vs acme MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010625010845.A8691199EA@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 21:08:43 -0400 On Sun Jun 24 18:05:29 EDT 2001, aam396@mail.usask.ca wrote: > hello, > > would anyone recommend using 'sam' as the editor of choice for p9? the > problem with acme is that it's not generally available for other platforms, > and if one chooses to use acme as the $EDITOR, s/he is stuck with switching > back/forth to something else for all other platforms. > > i know there's wily for linux/bsd and i've already happily compiled sam on > my irix box, so before i jump into learning it i'd like to know how useful > it is for managing relatively large and numerous source files. > > is sam good for medium/semi-large projects? > > i myself am a 'vi' user so the 'regular expresiveness' of sam is ok with me. > > > thanx: andrey > > ps: i guess my question is geared towards non-bell-labs people, since they > would be the ones useing other OS's Until recently, there were more people using rio+sam than acme at the Labs, there's a limit to how many new tricks you can teach old dogs like me. The balance has changed due to new hires tending to use acme and various forms of attrition on the old hands. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 25 12:33:14 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 25 12:33:14 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 32726 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2001 12:42:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32722 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2001 12:42:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2001 12:42:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 73C0119A17; Sun, 24 Jun 2001 23:42:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 924DF199EA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 24 Jun 2001 23:41:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA22824 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 24 Jun 2001 23:41:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id XAA29992; Sun, 24 Jun 2001 23:41:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200106250341.XAA29992@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sam vs acme Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <20010624223334.5371.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> References: Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 23:41:45 -0400 (EDT) In article <20010624223334.5371.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> you write: >| would anyone recommend using 'sam' as the editor of choice for p9? > >It's not bad. Sometimes acme is better, but I don't mind using both. >(Except that plumbing can get confused.) It would be nice to see acme's underlying fileserver architecture decoupled from its user interface. That would result in something roughly analogous to the way that XEDIT worked under VM in the IBM mainframe universe, as Scott has made comments about in the past. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 25 12:44:15 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 25 12:44:15 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 583 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2001 12:53:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 579 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2001 12:53:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2001 12:53:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8B95919A1C; Sun, 24 Jun 2001 23:53:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hork.ugcs.caltech.edu (hork.ugcs.caltech.edu [131.215.43.158]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6BE7C19A10 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 24 Jun 2001 23:52:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by hork.ugcs.caltech.edu (Postfix, from userid 2738) id A1E2F7418D; Sun, 24 Jun 2001 20:52:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hork.ugcs.caltech.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hork.ugcs.caltech.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu> id 8B23B7418C; Sun, 24 Jun 2001 20:52:50 -0700 (PDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Quinn Dunkan Message-Id: <20010625035255.A1E2F7418D@hork.ugcs.caltech.edu> Subject: [9fans] fpu emulation Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 20:52:50 -0700 If there's no FPU detected, does plan9 attempt to emulate one? How can you tell if it's emulating? Here's what acid has to say: 826: math coprocessor emulation lua_tonumber+0x40 FMOVD 0x4(DX),F0 Notes pending: sys: fp: invalid fppc=0x13ed7 My current theory is that somehow plan 9 missed the FPU on my processor (AMD K6-3) and enabled software FPU, which, due to little exercise, is buggy. Also, acme's stmt() seems to get caught in an endless loop if the debugee gets a note. The PC never changes, so it keeps trying to execute the current one. Speaking of acid, the documented acid functions fpr() and Fpr() don't seem to exist. I can get them with *F0\F, etc., but if I just type F0 instead of getting an address it prints an empty string. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 25 16:03:21 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 25 16:03:21 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 6218 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2001 16:12:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6214 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2001 16:12:37 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2001 16:12:37 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9E47C199FE; Mon, 25 Jun 2001 03:12:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 531DE199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 25 Jun 2001 03:11:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cotswold.demon.co.uk ([194.222.75.186] helo=nigel.9fs.org) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15EQXE-0009ql-0W for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 25 Jun 2001 08:11:48 +0100 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sam vs acme From: nigel@9fs.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 08:10:37 +0100 The pop up button 2 menu for editing under sam is seemed such an improvement over the tedious point-click point-click stuff necessary to cut or paste text under, say, Windows. Yes, I know that under Windows 98 or better you can get a right button menu (still click point click because it doesn't remember the last action), or generally use the keyboard (cop out). At first I found the lack of a button 2 menu under acme hard but now, when I return to sam from using acme, the lack of chording makes sam seem slow and clunky. I've attempted to use sam as editor of choice under all circumstances, but all circumstances for me is probably similar for others too. Once you enter the Windows world, there are other constraints. You need an editor which is kind to carriage returns, and in my case is really unkind to tabs. This is in the former case not to screw up some poorly written tools everyone else is using, and the latter to conform to coding standards. vi/elvis/vim doesn't even pass, since it preserves tabs. I did have a version of sam which would remove crs on read, and replace on write, and could pretend tabs weren't 8 spaces on screen, and replace them with spaces on write, but I lost it. Actually, it may be on the disk of the Sparcalike in the attic but I don't have a monitor cable for it. Anyone know if I can get a cable to connect a monochrome sparc to modern colour monitor? OK that's enough drivel. That should, in modern parlance, 'promote discussion'. Where's Boyd? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 25 16:17:15 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 25 16:17:15 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 6577 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2001 16:26:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6573 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2001 16:26:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2001 16:26:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1D61719A05; Mon, 25 Jun 2001 03:26:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DD44A199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 25 Jun 2001 03:25:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010625072552.CMGI294.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 25 Jun 2001 08:25:52 +0100 Message-ID: <006901c0fd48$149e1170$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] sam vs acme MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 08:25:58 +0100 > > OK that's enough drivel. That should, in modern parlance, 'promote > discussion'. Where's Boyd? on walkabout in London From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 25 16:27:14 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 25 16:27:14 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 6790 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2001 16:36:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6786 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2001 16:36:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2001 16:36:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C346419A08; Mon, 25 Jun 2001 03:36:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhostnl (localhostnl.demon.nl [195.11.248.215]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 97A2E199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 25 Jun 2001 03:35:47 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sam vs acme From: William Staniewicz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010625073547.97A2E199D7@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 09:29:57 -0400 Some of the folks on the lists: rescue@sunhelp.org -or- geeks@sunhelp.org ... may be able to help with that. Subscription info is at: www.sunhelp.org > may be on the disk of the Sparcalike in the attic but I don't have a > monitor cable for it. Anyone know if I can get a cable to connect a > monochrome sparc to modern colour monitor? > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 25 16:39:16 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 25 16:39:16 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 7210 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2001 16:48:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7205 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2001 16:48:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2001 16:48:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 82D4619A0F; Mon, 25 Jun 2001 03:48:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.92]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 57D5A199FE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 25 Jun 2001 03:47:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hamnavoe.demon.co.uk ([158.152.225.204] helo=hamnavoe) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15ER58-000DwF-0Y for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 25 Jun 2001 08:46:51 +0100 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sam vs acme From: Richard Miller MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 08:45:44 0100 > for one-off file editing, i've finally > moved from 'sam file' to 'acme file' - my big complaint there > being that acme still pops up the empty second column, wasting > screen space. Try 'acme -c1 file' From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 26 01:08:17 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 26 01:08:17 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 14605 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2001 01:17:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14601 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2001 01:17:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2001 01:17:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D7198199FE; Mon, 25 Jun 2001 12:17:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id BE92D199F6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 25 Jun 2001 12:16:57 -0400 (EDT) From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fpu emulation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010625161657.BE92D199F6@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 12:16:55 -0400 On Sun Jun 24 23:53:27 EDT 2001, quinn@hork.ugcs.caltech.edu wrote: > If there's no FPU detected, does plan9 attempt to emulate one? How can you > tell if it's emulating? > > Here's what acid has to say: > > 826: math coprocessor emulation lua_tonumber+0x40 FMOVD 0x4(DX),F0 > Notes pending: > sys: fp: invalid fppc=0x13ed7 > > My current theory is that somehow plan 9 missed the FPU on my processor (AMD > K6-3) and enabled software FPU, which, due to little exercise, is buggy. > there is no software fp emulation for the x86. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 26 03:22:14 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 26 03:22:14 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 15573 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2001 03:31:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15569 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2001 03:31:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2001 03:31:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 11B0919A05; Mon, 25 Jun 2001 14:31:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from workbench.borf.com (unknown [205.185.197.252]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 21C31199FE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 25 Jun 2001 14:30:07 -0400 (EDT) From: bwc@borf.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010625183007.21C31199FE@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] HP 4000 doesn't print last page for listings Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 14:30:16 -0400 I'm using lp -dstdout to create a ps file from a source and then sending it to a printer connected to another machine. (A small daemon on that machine relays bytes to /dev/lp0.) The output of dpost works, but the text stuff doesn't. When I do the following: pr crlf.c | lp -dstdout | sendpr The last page sits in the printer until a timeout forces the page out. If I do man -t lp | lp -dstdout | sendpr everything works. Has anyone hit this before? Brantley From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 26 03:46:12 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 26 03:46:12 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 15738 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2001 03:55:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15734 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2001 03:55:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2001 03:55:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE25819A0A; Mon, 25 Jun 2001 14:55:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jerq.plan9.lanl.net (plan9.acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.177]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C8D6419A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 25 Jun 2001 14:54:57 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: dpx@acl.lanl.gov MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010625185457.C8D6419A05@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] booting an AlphaPC 164 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 12:54:34 -0600 We have been trying to boot plan9 (w/ the latest updates) on some alphas and it appears to be hanging right as it starts the kernel. Here is capture of the screen from a 21164 machine (w/ the 21172 core logic): Digital AlphaPC 164 467 MHz Console V5.5-1, Jul 14 1999 12:37:45 >>>b (boot ewa0.0.0.5.0 -flags 0) Trying BOOTP boot. Broadcasting BOOTP Request... Received BOOTP Packet File Name is: /alpha/bootalphapc local inet address: 172.16.82.7 remote inet address: 172.16.82.1 TFTP Read File Name: /alpha/bootalphapc netmask = 255.255.0.0 Server is on same subnet as client. . bootstrap code read in base = 180000, image_start = 0, image_bytes = 867a initializing HWRPB at 2000 initializing page table at 172000 initializing machine state setting affinity to the primary CPU jumping to bootstrap code Alpha Plan 9 secondary boot Digital AlphaPC 164 467 MHz Memory size: 512MB plan9 (172.16.82.1!67): /alpha/conf/172.16.82.7.../alpha/9apc 624704+210224+78968=913896 entry: 0x80400020 At this point it hangs forever. If i understand the boot process correctly, it has just jumped into _main() in/sys/src/9/alphapc/l.s from gokernel() in /sys/src/9/boot/alphapc/exec.c By adding RET to various points of _main() in l.s, i am thinking it is hanging at the spot marked: TEXT _main(SB), $-8 MOVQ $setSB(SB), R29 MOVQ R29, R16 CALL_PAL $PALwrkgp MOVQ $mach0(SB), R(MACH) MOVQ $(BY2PG-8)(R(MACH)), R30 <------------- MOVQ R31, R(USER) MOVQ R31, 0(R(MACH)) If i understand correctly this just sets the stack pointer to last quadword of the page containing the mach structure. We get the same behavior w/ both the terminal and cpu kernels, and also the same if we try it on an ev6 machine. I found a post about using the -x flag to 7l, but that does not seem to help. anyone have any ideas, on what is going wrong? thx, -dp >>>show boot* boot_dev ewa0.0.0.5.0 boot_file boot_osflags 0 boot_reset OFF bootdef_dev ewa0.0.0.5.0 booted_dev ewa0.0.0.5.0 booted_file booted_osflags 0 >>>show ewa* ewa0_arp_tries 3 ewa0_bootp_file ewa0_bootp_server ewa0_bootp_tries 3 ewa0_def_ginetaddr 0.0.0.0 ewa0_def_inetaddr 0.0.0.0 ewa0_def_inetfile ewa0_def_sinetaddr 0.0.0.0 ewa0_def_subnetmask 0.0.0.0 ewa0_ginetaddr 0.0.0.0 ewa0_inet_init bootp ewa0_inetaddr 172.16.82.7 ewa0_inetfile /alpha/bootalphapc ewa0_loop_count 3e8 ewa0_loop_inc a ewa0_loop_patt ffffffffffffffff ewa0_loop_size 2e ewa0_lp_msg_node 1 ewa0_mode FastFD (Full Duplex) ewa0_protocols BOOTP ewa0_sinetaddr 172.16.82.1 ewa0_tftp_tries 3 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 26 04:14:14 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 26 04:14:14 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 16045 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2001 04:23:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16041 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2001 04:23:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2001 04:23:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8C68019A0F; Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:23:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 84863199FF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:22:57 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] booting an AlphaPC 164 From: David Gordon Hogan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010625192257.84863199FF@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:22:53 -0400 > If i understand the boot process correctly, it has just jumped into > _main() in/sys/src/9/alphapc/l.s from gokernel() in /sys/src/9/boot/alphapc/exec.c > By adding RET to various points of _main() in l.s, i am thinking it is hanging > at the spot marked: > TEXT _main(SB), $-8 > MOVQ $setSB(SB), R29 > MOVQ R29, R16 > CALL_PAL $PALwrkgp > MOVQ $mach0(SB), R(MACH) > MOVQ $(BY2PG-8)(R(MACH)), R30 <------------- > MOVQ R31, R(USER) > MOVQ R31, 0(R(MACH)) > > If i understand correctly this just sets the stack pointer to last quadword > of the page containing the mach structure. Although the RET instruction doesn't use SP itself, the caller isn't going to be too happy after you change it. Use the "CALL_PAL $PALhalt" instruction to find out where it's really hanging. If it makes it to C, you can insert calls to firmware(). > We get the same behavior w/ both the terminal and cpu kernels, and > also the same if we try it on an ev6 machine. I found a post about > using the -x flag to 7l, but that does not seem to help. That's only neccessary for older CPUs. You'll be taking a significant performance hit by using it otherwise, and some of the device drivers may not work. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 26 08:57:16 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 26 08:57:16 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 18208 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2001 09:06:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18204 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2001 09:06:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2001 09:06:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CB93719A0E; Mon, 25 Jun 2001 20:06:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 889D5199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 25 Jun 2001 20:05:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Jun 25 20:05:26 EDT 2001 Received: from oemcomputer ([129.78.115.69]) by plan9; Mon Jun 25 20:05:24 EDT 2001 Message-ID: <02fd01c0fdd3$f6efa080$11c0fea9@oemcomputer> From: "rob pike" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] sam vs acme MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 19:59:45 -0400 I've been planning for some time to have a go at splitting acme the way sam is split. I didn't do it when I was writing acme because I had so many other new things to worry about, not because I didn't think it should be done. No promises, but maybe some day... -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 26 09:04:12 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 26 09:04:12 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 18392 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2001 09:13:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18388 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2001 09:13:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2001 09:13:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5353919A12; Mon, 25 Jun 2001 20:13:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id DC3CE19A0F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 25 Jun 2001 20:12:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from HWTPC ([135.104.53.98]) by plan9; Mon Jun 25 20:12:56 EDT 2001 From: "Howard Trickey" To: "rob pike" , <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] sam vs acme Message-ID: <000501c0fdd4$e633ea70$62356887@HWTPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <02fd01c0fdd3$f6efa080$11c0fea9@oemcomputer> Importance: Normal Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 20:14:00 -0400 I've been in a (sort of) forced exile in Windows programming land for the last couple of years, and I REALLY miss acme. I think I may have been rob's first real user (after him), and have been enthusiastic about it from the start. I hope the split acme appears. - Howard Trickey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 26 13:48:13 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 26 13:48:13 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 26835 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2001 13:57:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26831 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2001 13:57:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2001 13:57:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5F44A19A0A; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 00:57:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cosym.net (sdsl-64-7-3-116.dsl.nyc.megapath.net [64.7.3.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id D648F199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 00:56:10 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sam vs acme From: anothy@cosym.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20010626045610.D648F199E3@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 00:55:45 -0400 //I've been planning for some time to have a go at //splitting acme the way sam is split. oo, oo! sign me up! should you need a beta user, i'm your guy. i'm usually running acme on my cpu server from home, over my 56k (if that) modem, and throwing around something on the level of sam rather than raw /dev/draw would be really, really nice. now, if this makes it into Inferno's Acme, too, i could use it cross-platform, and retire sam (or at least samterm) for good. -α. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 27 01:42:22 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 27 01:42:22 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 6014 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Jun 2001 01:51:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6010 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2001 01:51:42 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Jun 2001 01:51:42 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1987E199E4; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 12:51:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AC249199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 12:50:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 15Evnj-0007TY-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 17:34:55 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: John Packer Message-ID: <3B38BA06.E55B62AC@bway.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] bitsy question Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:33:44 GMT I have Plan9 installed on my ipaq, but I don't have a pcmcia sleeve, or wavelan on my network. So I have been trying to link the bitsy to my terminal using ppp over the serial port. (I made a ramdisk with ip/ppp). PPP tries to authenticate for 30 seconds (through chap, I think) then times out. I've tried running ppp a few different ways, but something like ip/ppp -df -b 115200 -p /dev/eia0 -s $user:$secret 135.104.99.5 on the bitsy and something like ip/ppp -dfS -b 115200 -p /dev/eia0 135.104.99.1 on the server. Has anyone tried this? What am I doing wrong? Thanks, John From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 27 02:02:13 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 27 02:02:13 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 6166 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Jun 2001 02:11:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6162 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2001 02:11:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Jun 2001 02:11:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4764E199ED; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 13:11:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 31CEB199C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 13:10:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03705; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 13:10:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id NAA06056; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 13:10:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200106261710.NAA06056@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: packer@bway.net Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <3B38BA06.E55B62AC@bway.net> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Re: bitsy question Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 13:10:45 -0400 (EDT) In article <3B38BA06.E55B62AC@bway.net> you write: >I have Plan9 installed on my ipaq, but I don't have a pcmcia sleeve, >or wavelan on my network. Ouch; that makes it much more difficult to use, as you have discovered. >So I have been trying to link the bitsy to my terminal using ppp over >the serial port. (I made a ramdisk with ip/ppp). > >PPP tries to authenticate for 30 seconds (through chap, I think) then >times out. > >I've tried running ppp a few different ways, but something like > > ip/ppp -df -b 115200 -p /dev/eia0 -s $user:$secret 135.104.99.5 > >on the bitsy and something like > > ip/ppp -dfS -b 115200 -p /dev/eia0 135.104.99.1 > >on the server. > >Has anyone tried this? What am I doing wrong? Well, at least one thing that you're probably encountering is that the bitsy tries to use the serial port as a console device, and is hardwired in the kernel to do so. In order to fix that, you have to edit the kernel sources in /sys/src/9/bitsy/ and recompile; I managed to turn it off by changing the argument to sa1110_uartsetup() to zero in main.c. However, if you do ONLY that, the machine panics when it comes up because the keyboard input queue for the console device is nil. Whoops! You have to change sa1110_uartsetup() in sa1110uart.c (the last routine in the file) to assign a valid Queue pointer to kbdq. I just changed the relevant section to be: if(console) { uartspecial(p, 115200, &kbdq, &printq, kbdcr2nl); } else { kbdq = qopen(4*1024, 0, 0, 0); } That is, adding the ``else'' clause which calls qopen. I'm not sure that this is the best method; if there's a better one, I'd be interested to know. btw- the serial console mode can be really handy at times; it's nice to be able to put the bitsy on it's cradle, start up con, and then type into bitsy windows without using bitsy/keyboard. The hand becomes much less cramped. Anyway, I'm assuming this is something you haven't messed with yet; it'd most definately mess with ip/ppp, since every other character gets redirected to /dev/cons! Another problem you may have is that the bitsy uart driver doesn't really do modem control; actually, it might be more accurate to say that the StrongARM SA1100 doesn't do modem control signaling directly. Instead, it simulates it using the GPIO pins on the 1100. I'm not sure what exactly, if anything, the bitsy does differently in this regard (the driver has a comment about the RTS/CTS stuff being h3600 specific, but nothing more); my attempts to add DTR and RTS/CTS modem control to the serial driver didn't work the way I had expected them to (I was trying to hack them in in order to get my Targus stowaway keyboard working; I did get it to mostly ``do the right thing,'' but it wasn't perfect and I got busy with other stuff. I'll get back to it eventually.) I've been meaning to try out ppp on the bitsy, using my ricochet modem, but I haven't round a serial cable for it yet (well, I haven't exactly been looking that hard). I definately thing it'd be pretty cool to use my bitsy to send email from the train. bway.net, huh? You in New York? Anyone else on the list in NYC? We ought to start a New York Plan 9 Club or something. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 27 02:04:09 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 27 02:04:09 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 6183 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Jun 2001 02:13:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6179 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2001 02:13:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Jun 2001 02:13:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0ECC3199F2; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 13:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 58569199C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 13:12:29 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bitsy question From: Sape Mullender MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010626171229.58569199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 13:12:23 -0400 > So I have been trying to link the bitsy to my terminal using ppp over > the serial port. (I made a ramdisk with ip/ppp). Do you also use that serial line as the console? You'll get garbage in your packets that way. Sape From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 27 02:41:14 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 27 02:41:14 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 6435 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Jun 2001 02:50:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6431 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2001 02:50:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Jun 2001 02:50:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 31586199F6; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 13:50:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es [212.128.1.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B7818199C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 13:49:59 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: nemo@gsyc.escet.urjc.es MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010626174959.B7818199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] bug in the idefs patch for the fs kernel Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 20:02:00 +0200 Hi, I just found a bug in the patch to let the fs kernel work w/ ide drives. In few words, devata.c (as found in the current patch at http://plan9.escet.urjc.es/export/idefs.rc ) can suffer a cmdreadywait() timeout which sometimes leads to a read/write failure. For me that happens only when using a fast machine with one of those 40G ide disks. If any of you is using a fast machine, a big ide disk, and the idefs patch, beware of this. I think I fixed the bug and you'll be able to download an updated idefs patch from the url above. But that will be in a couple of days (I just want to exercise the code a little bit more before exposing your files to it). hth From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 27 04:41:13 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 27 04:41:13 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 7204 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Jun 2001 04:50:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7200 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2001 04:50:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Jun 2001 04:50:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ECC3F199F5; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 15:50:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nico.bway.net (nico.bway.net [216.220.96.3]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9709B199C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 15:49:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bway.net ([216.220.111.170]) by nico.bway.net (8.11.3+3.4W/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f5QJnL402234; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 15:49:21 -0400 Message-ID: <3B38E7BE.D4C22541@bway.net> From: John Packer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dan Cross , 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200106261710.NAA06056@augusta.math.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Re: bitsy question Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 15:51:26 -0400 Dan Cross wrote: > You have to change sa1110_uartsetup() in sa1110uart.c > (the last routine in the file) to assign a valid Queue pointer to > kbdq. I just changed the relevant section to be: > > if(console) { > uartspecial(p, 115200, &kbdq, &printq, kbdcr2nl); > } else { > kbdq = qopen(4*1024, 0, 0, 0); > } > This is an interesting clue. I'll try this out tonight. > btw- the serial console mode can be really handy at times; it's nice to > be able to put the bitsy on it's cradle, start up con, and then type > into bitsy windows without using bitsy/keyboard. I've noticed this - very useful. > Another problem you may have is that the bitsy uart driver doesn't > really do modem control I don't think I need modem control, I'm not using a modem: just a PPP server and client over the serial cable to my PC. This is, I'm guessing, how ActiveSync works, and how Linux users connect to their Ipaqs. It just doesn't seem to authenticate. This may be the wrong approach, I don't know. > I've been meaning to try out ppp on the bitsy, using my ricochet modem, > but I haven't round a serial cable for it yet (well, I haven't exactly > been looking that hard). I definately thing it'd be pretty cool to use > my bitsy to send email from the train. Very. > > bway.net, huh? You in New York? Anyone else on the list in NYC? We > ought to start a New York Plan 9 Club or something. Yep. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 27 04:59:10 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 27 04:59:10 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 7331 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Jun 2001 05:08:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7327 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2001 05:08:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Jun 2001 05:08:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4E00E19A03; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:08:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nico.bway.net (nico.bway.net [216.220.96.3]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 716D3199F7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:07:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bway.net ([216.220.111.170]) by nico.bway.net (8.11.3+3.4W/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f5QK7j423514 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:07:45 -0400 Message-ID: <3B38EC0E.4326AA8D@bway.net> From: John Packer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200106261710.NAA06056@augusta.math.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Re: bitsy question Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:09:50 -0400 > Do you also use that serial line as the console? You'll get garbage > in your packets that way. > > Sape Hmm. I'm not running a con window when I try this. The debugging output appears to indicate a lack of response to a CHAP request. Maybe it is not picking up the '-s $user:$secret' option from the client. John From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 27 05:10:11 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 27 05:10:11 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 7410 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Jun 2001 05:19:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7406 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2001 05:19:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Jun 2001 05:19:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 32A98199C1; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:19:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mallorn.advancedsolutions.com (mallorn.advancedsolutions.com [216.3.74.86]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8F221199C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:18:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucho@localhost) by mallorn.advancedsolutions.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA28285 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:18:17 -0400 From: Latchesar Ionkov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: bitsy question Message-ID: <20010626161816.A28269@gmx.net> References: <3B38BA06.E55B62AC@bway.net> <200106261710.NAA06056@augusta.math.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <200106261710.NAA06056@augusta.math.psu.edu>; from cross@math.psu.edu on Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 01:10:45PM -0400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:18:16 -0400 On Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 01:10:45PM -0400, Dan Cross said: > > bway.net, huh? You in New York? Anyone else on the list in NYC? We > ought to start a New York Plan 9 Club or something. I am in New York too. Lucho From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 27 05:20:10 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 27 05:20:10 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 7458 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Jun 2001 05:29:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7454 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2001 05:29:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Jun 2001 05:29:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 15AD319A14; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:29:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9B73919A0F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:28:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010626202856.WLSK294.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 21:28:56 +0100 Message-ID: <008801c0fe7e$a14a7640$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3B38BA06.E55B62AC@bway.net> <200106261710.NAA06056@augusta.math.psu.edu> <20010626161816.A28269@gmx.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: bitsy question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 21:28:58 +0100 > On Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 01:10:45PM -0400, Dan Cross said: > > > > bway.net, huh? You in New York? Anyone else on the list in NYC? We > > ought to start a New York Plan 9 Club or something. > > I am in New York too. > > Lucho part of my heart lives there From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 27 05:26:12 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 27 05:26:12 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 7496 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Jun 2001 05:35:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7492 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2001 05:35:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Jun 2001 05:35:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5530319A11; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:35:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E7AC919A0E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:34:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02466; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:34:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id QAA06782; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:34:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200106262034.QAA06782@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: bitsy question Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <3B38E7BE.D4C22541@bway.net> References: <200106261710.NAA06056@augusta.math.psu.edu> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: packer@bway.net Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:34:44 -0400 (EDT) In article <3B38E7BE.D4C22541@bway.net> you write: > > [...] > >> Another problem you may have is that the bitsy uart driver doesn't >> really do modem control > >I don't think I need modem control, I'm not using a modem: just a >PPP server and client over the serial cable to my PC. Oh duh; of course you said that earlier and I was too slow to catch on. Yes, you're right; if you're not using a modem, you don't need modem control. For that matter, you might not need modem control even if you have a modem. >This is, I'm guessing, how ActiveSync works, and how Linux users connect >to their Ipaqs. Well, I think they mostly use ``normal'' serial line protocols; either just raw text passed over the serial line, or using a data transfer protocol like xmodem. I'm not sure they'd bother with the overhead of PPP in the general case (where they just wanted to sync data, or copy a file; for making TCP connections and the like, yeah, you'd need PPP or SLIP or a real network interface). >It just doesn't seem to authenticate. That's almost certainly the keyboard input queue messing you up. >This may be the wrong approach, I don't know. Well, if you've got an extra thousand bucks just laying around, definately invest in the Wavelan route. If not, then it's a reasonable approach; it won't zoom, though, and I've found ip/ppp pretty unreliable (using a wireless modem, though; still, it seems to work reasonably well under FreeBSD. I haven't been motivated enough to track down what's wrong, though). > [...] > >> bway.net, huh? You in New York? Anyone else on the list in NYC? We >> ought to start a New York Plan 9 Club or something. > >Yep. Cool. Any other New Yorker's? - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 27 05:28:10 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 27 05:28:10 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 7513 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Jun 2001 05:37:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7509 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2001 05:37:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Jun 2001 05:37:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8069F19A19; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:37:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D8DFE199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:36:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02756 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:36:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id QAA06804; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:36:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200106262036.QAA06804@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: bitsy question Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <3B38EC0E.4326AA8D@bway.net> References: <200106261710.NAA06056@augusta.math.psu.edu> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:36:39 -0400 (EDT) In article <3B38EC0E.4326AA8D@bway.net> you write: >Hmm. I'm not running a con window when I try this. Right, but the kernel on the bitsy is still hardwired to take data from the serial port and place it into the keyboard input queue; running con on the other end doesn't matter, what's running locally on the bitsy is what's messing it up. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 27 10:05:11 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 27 10:05:11 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 10156 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Jun 2001 10:14:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10152 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2001 10:14:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Jun 2001 10:14:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E32C19A1C; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 21:14:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pali.cps.cmich.edu (pali.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.131.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 75348199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 21:13:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ishwar@localhost) by pali.cps.cmich.edu (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f5R1FNn31576 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 21:15:23 -0400 From: Ish Rattan To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <3B38E7BE.D4C22541@bway.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Two cpu servers? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 21:15:23 -0400 (EDT) Does it make sense to have two cpu-servers? I have a standalone spu/auth server running. How can I add another cpu server to have two of these? Any pointers will be appreciated. -ishwar From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 27 15:54:09 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 27 15:54:09 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19027 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Jun 2001 16:03:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19023 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2001 16:03:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Jun 2001 16:03:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0365319A20; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 03:03:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from finch-post-11.mail.demon.net (finch-post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.39]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F39B9199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 03:02:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from whitecrow.demon.co.uk ([194.222.126.246] helo=localhost.localdomain) by finch-post-11.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15F9LA-000CN8-0B for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 07:02:20 +0000 Received: from whitecrow (IDENT:steve@whitecrow [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA01622 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 23:13:44 +0100 Message-Id: <200106262213.XAA01622@localhost.localdomain> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: bitsy question In-Reply-To: Message from "Matt" of "Tue, 26 Jun 2001 21:28:58 BST." <008801c0fe7e$a14a7640$6401a8c0@freeze2k> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Steve Kilbane Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 23:13:44 +0100 Matt wrote: > part of my heart lives there part, huh? might have known that a plan 9'er would be distributed at heart. steve From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 28 22:30:13 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 28 22:30:13 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 16623 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Jun 2001 22:39:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16619 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2001 22:39:38 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Jun 2001 22:39:38 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 88F67199D7; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 09:39:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4DECC199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 09:38:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 15FbhH-0004sq-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:19:03 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Dave Atkin Message-ID: Organization: ntl Business News Service Subject: [9fans] New Release of Inferno and new Plan 9 CD from Vita Nuova Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 13:17:33 GMT Vita Nuova is pleased to announce that the new release of Inferno (June 2001) is now available. See http://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/updates.html A new Plan 9 CD, incorporating all the updates from Bell Labs up to 18 June 2001 is also available. See http://www.vitanuova.com/plan9/updates.html See Inferno on the iPAQ at the USENIX 2001 exhibition (Booth 26). Finally, the latest Inferno & Plan 9 Newsletter is available at http://www.vitanuova.com/newsletter/Jun_2001.html The Vita Nuova Customer Support Team From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 28 23:24:05 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 28 23:24:05 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 17260 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Jun 2001 23:33:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17256 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2001 23:33:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Jun 2001 23:33:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D4A7C199DD; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 10:33:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from diogenis.ceid.upatras.gr (diogenis.ceid.upatras.gr [150.140.141.181]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C1C7D199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 10:32:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 3363 invoked by uid 1556); 28 Jun 2001 14:32:57 -0000 From: Anastasopoulos S To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] inferno C compilers Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 17:32:57 +0300 (EET DST) Hi Why are the plan9 compilers are included in the inferno distribution since there is no library and since they don't produce .exe files? Spyros From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 29 00:15:04 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 29 00:15:04 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 17769 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Jun 2001 00:24:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17765 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2001 00:24:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Jun 2001 00:24:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 73523199E7; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 11:24:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9B761199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 11:23:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cotswold.demon.co.uk ([194.222.75.186] helo=cpu.9fs.org) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 15Fddc-0000Kt-0K for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 15:23:24 +0000 From: nigel@9fs.org To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] inferno C compilers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:22:40 +0100 [4~They are not the PLan 9 compilers, but similar. They are part of the distribution to enable you to build native Inferno for the various target architectures. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 29 05:07:05 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 29 05:07:05 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19709 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Jun 2001 05:16:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19705 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2001 05:16:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Jun 2001 05:16:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 77E0F199E3; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:16:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8604B199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:15:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24691 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:15:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200106282015.QAA24691@math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Dan Cross Subject: [9fans] Chess program? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:15:52 -0400 Is there a chess program for Plan 9? Given Ken Thompson's history of interest in computer chess, I can't imagine that there isn't (though I can imagine that it might not be distributed for whatever reason). Anyway, how are people wasting their time on Plan 9? Thanks! - Dan ``E5'' C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 29 05:43:05 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 29 05:43:05 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19924 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Jun 2001 05:52:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19920 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2001 05:52:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Jun 2001 05:52:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7FAD6199E9; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:52:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from edsac.borf.com (unknown [205.185.197.250]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A135D199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:51:47 -0400 (EDT) From: bwc@borf.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Two cpu servers? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ruskkjturxklnixzaptjrwnnpq" Message-Id: <20010628205147.A135D199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:51:36 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ruskkjturxklnixzaptjrwnnpq Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm running two cpu servers because I've not gotten around to switch from the 2nd edition auth server. In fact I'm still running a 2nd file server as well. Seems like a lot of boxes for one guy, but I'm lazy and I had to put new systems up not to interrupt what I was doing. Brantley Coile (currently at Boston USENIX) --upas-ruskkjturxklnixzaptjrwnnpq Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from borf.com ([205.185.197.9]) by edsac; Tue Jun 26 21:16:04 EDT 2001 Received: from [130.203.4.6] by borf.com ; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 21:12:44 -0400 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 82D6019A1A; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 21:14:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pali.cps.cmich.edu (pali.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.131.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 75348199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 21:13:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ishwar@localhost) by pali.cps.cmich.edu (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f5R1FNn31576 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 21:15:23 -0400 From: Ish Rattan To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <3B38E7BE.D4C22541@bway.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Two cpu servers? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 21:15:23 -0400 (EDT) Does it make sense to have two cpu-servers? I have a standalone spu/auth server running. How can I add another cpu server to have two of these? Any pointers will be appreciated. -ishwar --upas-ruskkjturxklnixzaptjrwnnpq-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 29 05:53:05 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 29 05:53:05 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19974 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Jun 2001 06:02:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19970 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2001 06:02:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Jun 2001 06:02:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DF779199C1; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 17:02:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (zola.noos.net [212.198.2.76]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C2DA3199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 17:01:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 10553463 invoked by uid 0); 28 Jun 2001 21:01:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.192]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.76 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 28 Jun 2001 21:01:15 -0000 Message-ID: <001501c10015$50226870$c0b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200106180907.LAA04339@boris.cd.chalmers.se> Subject: Re: [9fans] source code as data not text MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 23:00:07 +0200 > Cutting and pasting code is plain evil. you said it. back in paris and i have eurocave catalogue. that stuff is is _way cool_. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 29 06:24:03 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 29 06:24:03 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20155 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Jun 2001 06:33:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20151 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2001 06:33:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Jun 2001 06:33:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3B8E9199EE; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 17:33:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (racine.noos.net [212.198.2.71]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F2BD1199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 17:32:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 10727645 invoked by uid 0); 28 Jun 2001 21:18:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.192]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.71 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 28 Jun 2001 21:18:48 -0000 Message-ID: <003b01c10017$c38a67c0$c0b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] source code as data not text MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 23:17:40 +0200 merde, this message was meant for laura. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 11:00 PM Subject: Re: [9fans] source code as data not text > > Cutting and pasting code is plain evil. > > you said it. > > back in paris and i have eurocave catalogue. > > that stuff is is _way cool_. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 29 06:47:09 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 29 06:47:09 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20291 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Jun 2001 06:56:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20287 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2001 06:56:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Jun 2001 06:56:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 41871199F1; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 17:56:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (camus.noos.net [212.198.2.70]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D75B7199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 17:55:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 10426381 invoked by uid 0); 28 Jun 2001 21:30:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.192]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.70 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 28 Jun 2001 21:30:20 -0000 Message-ID: <008801c10019$604547a0$c0b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <010901c0f6bc$d5368b20$6401a8c0@freeze2k> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 23:29:12 +0200 > I know they've covered Assembler, Java, C++ and Databases. surely s/he could have picked a 5th worthless subject... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 29 06:49:05 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 29 06:49:05 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20300 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Jun 2001 06:58:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20296 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2001 06:58:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Jun 2001 06:58:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5DB2A199F3; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 17:58:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (descartes.noos.net [212.198.2.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6CF48199EA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 17:57:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 10823816 invoked by uid 0); 28 Jun 2001 21:57:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.192]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.74 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 28 Jun 2001 21:57:25 -0000 Message-ID: <010801c1001d$28904680$c0b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <00d701c0f78d$fb26d750$6401a8c0@freeze2k> Subject: Re: [9fans] source code as data not text MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 23:56:17 +0200 > Maybe I'm not hard-core enough but one thing I miss is syntax highlighting. i think this is nonsense, but it makes me think that maybe you could have a database of buggy code that you had written and it could be used to warn you of your folies. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 29 06:55:07 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 29 06:55:07 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20346 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Jun 2001 07:04:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20342 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2001 07:04:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Jun 2001 07:04:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 63CC6199F4; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 18:04:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (camus.noos.net [212.198.2.70]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C8F56199EA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 18:03:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 10506323 invoked by uid 0); 28 Jun 2001 22:03:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.192]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.70 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 28 Jun 2001 22:03:27 -0000 Message-ID: <013e01c1001e$00a189d0$c0b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200106180907.LAA04339@boris.cd.chalmers.se> Subject: Re: [9fans] source code as data not text MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 00:02:19 +0200 one of the problems is when it's so easy to snarf paste, coding it into a loop doesn't enter into it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 29 06:56:06 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 29 06:56:06 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20356 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Jun 2001 07:05:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20352 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2001 07:05:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Jun 2001 07:05:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A59EC199F7; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 18:05:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (mta03-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.43]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0C610199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 18:04:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010628220409.WENB298.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 23:04:09 +0100 Message-ID: <001601c1001e$3aa698a0$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <010901c0f6bc$d5368b20$6401a8c0@freeze2k> <008801c10019$604547a0$c0b7c6d4@SOMA> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 23:03:57 +0100 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 10:29 PM Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science > > I know they've covered Assembler, Java, C++ and Databases. > > surely s/he could have picked a 5th worthless subject... i think that's saved up for the final year He constantly amazes us (his friends) with his computer cluelessness. Like finding it difficult to persuade him that his overclocked celeron might be struggling to execute the tcp/ip stack while he was trying to play high-end games. Or helping him install a windows based web proxy (literally double clicking on setup.exe) I remember they used MS Access for their database. We had a CS graduate come for an interview. He was clearly a bit clueless. The questions were scaled down to make him feel a bit better when he left. "What is a hexadecimal number?" "A combination of numbers and letters" He had a nice suit on though. M From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 29 07:11:05 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 29 07:11:05 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20460 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Jun 2001 07:20:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20456 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2001 07:20:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Jun 2001 07:20:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C8ED9199FA; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 18:20:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (descartes.noos.net [212.198.2.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A0ED1199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 18:19:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 10823465 invoked by uid 0); 28 Jun 2001 22:19:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.192]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.74 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 28 Jun 2001 22:19:02 -0000 Message-ID: <01d701c10020$2de83270$c0b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010618184843.68F9819A00@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] source code as data not text MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 00:17:55 +0200 my man dhog speaks ths truth: > The last thing we need is another shell. how many does vita's inferno have? n too many. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 29 07:33:04 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 29 07:33:04 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20578 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Jun 2001 07:42:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20574 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2001 07:42:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Jun 2001 07:42:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B9239199FB; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 18:42:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (descartes.noos.net [212.198.2.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9ABB2199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 18:41:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 10842679 invoked by uid 0); 28 Jun 2001 22:41:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.192]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.74 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 28 Jun 2001 22:41:19 -0000 Message-ID: <022c01c10023$4aac8480$c0b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200106282015.QAA24691@math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Chess program? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 00:40:11 +0200 belle (sp?) used speciliased h/w to to the alpha/beta pruning. it's just not a matter of s/w. i saw his talk, in sydney, many years ago. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 29 07:57:05 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 29 07:57:05 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20716 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Jun 2001 08:06:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20712 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2001 08:06:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Jun 2001 08:06:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE828199FF; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 19:06:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (camus.noos.net [212.198.2.70]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 98662199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 19:05:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 10514310 invoked by uid 0); 28 Jun 2001 23:05:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.192]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.70 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 28 Jun 2001 23:05:08 -0000 Message-ID: <028601c10026$9e8ef210$c0b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <006901c0fd48$149e1170$6401a8c0@freeze2k> Subject: Re: [9fans] sam vs acme MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 01:04:01 +0200 > > OK that's enough drivel. That should, in modern parlance, 'promote > > discussion'. Where's Boyd? > > on walkabout in London correct, but i have returned to my abode. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 29 08:13:09 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 29 08:13:09 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20835 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Jun 2001 08:22:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20831 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2001 08:22:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Jun 2001 08:22:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 25A1619A02; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 19:22:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from guardian.apnic.net (guardian.apnic.net [203.37.255.100]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5AF26199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 19:20:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mail@localhost) by guardian.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA21668 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:20:52 +1000 (EST) Received: from hadrian.staff.apnic.net(192.168.1.1) by int-gw.staff.apnic.net via smap (V2.1) id xma021659; Fri, 29 Jun 01 09:20:40 +1000 Received: from apnic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hadrian.staff.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23605 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:20:40 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science In-Reply-To: Message from "Matt" of "Thu, 28 Jun 2001 23:03:57 +0100." <001601c1001e$3aa698a0$6401a8c0@freeze2k> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-ID: <23603.993770440@apnic.net> From: George Michaelson Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:20:40 +1000 > We had a CS graduate come for an interview. He was clearly a bit clueless. > The questions were scaled down to make him feel a bit better when he left. > "What is a hexadecimal number?" > "A combination of numbers and letters" > You know, there are contexts where this is the right answer. Like, if you manipulate them as input/output objects and need to check the datastream to see if the tokenising input should end. And, the difference between Hex 0F and Decimal 15 is that both have exactly the same bit-pattern in memory. Strangely, if you add 2 apples in hex and 2 oranges in decimal OR octal, you still have 4 bits of fruit. So, you can do mixed-base sums after all. Why don't they teach you that at school any more? I had a chum who'd had a 6th finger cut off early. If they'd left it on, would he have had any advantages doing finger arithmetic? > He had a nice suit on though. > Should'a employed him then. Anybody slavish enough to dress up to get a job is probably going to work hard for the first 7 months until disallusionment sets in. I still writhe with embarrassment recalling an interview for the UK N.E.R.C to get a junior progroid job onboard the antarctic ships, when asked to write a solution to pythagoras in pascal, there, in front of the panel. Flop sweat and memory loss and nicotine withdrawal and sheer fright combined to make it both humiliating for me, and revealing for them. I think they made the right decision to quietly let me go. Still, I got to see the steam loco graveyard at barry island so it wasn't all wasted. cheers -George PS I suspect that in this niche, people aren't working as a result of a successful interview. I think they probably know people who know people who trust people who let them on board. If there is an interview, its more like dogs sniffing each other, or 'do you wanna be in my gang?' than joining the army. -- George Michaelson | APNIC Email: ggm@apnic.net | PO Box 2131 Milton QLD 4064 Phone: +61 7 3367 0490 | Australia Fax: +61 7 3367 0482 | http://www.apnic.net From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 29 08:15:07 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 29 08:15:07 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20849 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Jun 2001 08:24:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20845 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2001 08:24:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Jun 2001 08:24:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6750B19A03; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 19:24:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (verlaine.noos.net [212.198.2.73]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6CF52199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 19:23:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 6395253 invoked by uid 0); 28 Jun 2001 22:59:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.192]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.73 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 28 Jun 2001 22:59:30 -0000 Message-ID: <026101c10025$d4e7de40$c0b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010624223334.5371.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] sam vs acme MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 00:58:22 +0200 the only way to write code is with sam. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 29 08:44:07 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 29 08:44:07 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 21053 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Jun 2001 08:53:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21049 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2001 08:53:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Jun 2001 08:53:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5FAAB19A04; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 19:53:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 7ED80199EA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 19:52:23 -0400 (EDT) From: David Gordon Hogan To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sam vs acme MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010628235223.7ED80199EA@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 19:52:19 -0400 Boyd writes: > the only way to write code is with sam. Ooops! You mispelled "acme"! :-) Anyway, as we all know, ED IS THE STANDARD TEXT EDITOR: http://www.red-eagle.com/jokes/ed.html If you don't find that funny, well, here's a bit of code from gcc 3.0: static const char * const ia64_reg_numbers[96] = { "r32", "r33", "r34", "r35", "r36", "r37", "r38", "r39", "r40", "r41", "r42", "r43", "r44", "r45", "r46", "r47", "r48", "r49", "r50", "r51", "r52", "r53", "r54", "r55", "r56", "r57", "r58", "r59", "r60", "r61", "r62", "r63", "r64", "r65", "r66", "r67", "r68", "r69", "r70", "r71", "r72", "r73", "r74", "r75", "r76", "r77", "r78", "r79", "r80", "r81", "r82", "r83", "r84", "r85", "r86", "r87", "r88", "r89", "r90", "r91", "r92", "r93", "r94", "r95", "r96", "r97", "r98", "r99", "r100","r101","r102","r103", "r104","r105","r106","r107","r108","r109","r110","r111", "r112","r113","r114","r115","r116","r117","r118","r119", "r120","r121","r122","r123","r124","r125","r126","r127"}; From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 29 13:23:11 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 29 13:23:11 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 28450 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Jun 2001 13:32:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28446 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2001 13:32:37 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Jun 2001 13:32:37 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9526019A09; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 00:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E84451998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 00:31:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id GAA06226 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 06:26:01 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Two cpu servers? Message-ID: <20010629062559.F3723@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20010628205147.A135D199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <20010628205147.A135D199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu>; from bwc@borf.com on Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 04:51:36PM -0400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 06:26:00 +0200 On Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 04:51:36PM -0400, bwc@borf.com wrote: > > I'm running two cpu servers because I've not gotten around to switch > from the 2nd edition auth server. In fact I'm still running a 2nd > file server as well. Seems like a lot of boxes for one guy, but > I'm lazy and I had to put new systems up not to interrupt what > I was doing. > > Brantley Coile > (currently at Boston USENIX) I have kept my 2ed system running too. The new CPU server serves mostly Inferno and drawterm sessions from Windows (auth stayed with 2ed) and the new FS idles along waiting for 9P2000, religiously backing up nothing every day at 11 am local time :-) ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 29 13:28:07 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 29 13:28:07 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 28572 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Jun 2001 13:37:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28567 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2001 13:37:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Jun 2001 13:37:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D658719A0D; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 00:37:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C145919A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 00:36:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id GAA06247 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 06:30:41 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science Message-ID: <20010629063040.G3723@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <010901c0f6bc$d5368b20$6401a8c0@freeze2k> <008801c10019$604547a0$c0b7c6d4@SOMA> <001601c1001e$3aa698a0$6401a8c0@freeze2k> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <001601c1001e$3aa698a0$6401a8c0@freeze2k>; from Matt on Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 11:03:57PM +0100 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 06:30:41 +0200 On Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 11:03:57PM +0100, Matt wrote: > > He had a nice suit on though. > You don't get, it then :-) It's the shoes, what shoes was he wearing? Were they well polished? ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 29 16:33:05 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 29 16:33:05 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 900 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Jun 2001 16:42:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 896 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2001 16:42:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Jun 2001 16:42:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1771B199DD; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 03:42:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E90D01998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 03:41:00 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010629074100.E90D01998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] formatting new floppy Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 16:41:33 +0900 disk/format -b /386/pbs -df /dev/fd0disk /386/9load /386/plan9.ini will die such format 743: suicide: sys: trap: fault read addr=0xcafebabe pc=0x00004d6e. Acid tells me the format program is confusing floppy drive as hard disk drive... Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 29 18:29:03 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 29 18:29:03 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 3471 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Jun 2001 18:38:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3467 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2001 18:38:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Jun 2001 18:38:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EEEC1199E3; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 05:38:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 78D041998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 05:37:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 15FuVL-0001n0-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 10:23:59 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Alex Danilo Message-ID: <3B39E316.12206DFD@ishtek.com> Organization: @Home Network Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20010527042717.63A46199EC@mail.cse.psu.edu>, , <3B10AAC6.996C5C63@null.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 (in)security Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:23:51 GMT The two 16-bit words are for the surrogate area. Unicode 3.1 is out - and there are 44,496 new characters, giving 94,140 total glyphs. So, yes 16 bits is not enough. However 32 bit representations are discouraged - UTF16 is the way to go if you have to leave UTF8. Alex "Douglas A. Gwyn" wrote: > Richard Elberger wrote: > > ... Perhaps once it is all catalogued and > > accepted into unicode, 16 bits will not be enough. > > 16 bits was never enough, and currently the Windows world > is scrambling to change from UCS-2 (old "16-bit Unicode") > to UTF-16, which occasionally uses two 16-bit words for > certain characters. This is an active topic of discussion > in the WG14 reflector. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 29 22:59:09 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 29 22:59:09 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 6253 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Jun 2001 23:08:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6249 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2001 23:08:36 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Jun 2001 23:08:36 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8D1C2199F1; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 10:08:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 88E84199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 10:07:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 15FynW-0000Zm-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 14:59:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3B3C833A.18E66768@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , <3B10AAC6.996C5C63@null.net>, <3B39E316.12206DFD@ishtek.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 (in)security Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 13:57:18 GMT Alex Danilo wrote: > So, yes 16 bits is not enough. However 32 bit representations are > discouraged - UTF16 is the way to go if you have to leave UTF8. Actually that is highly debatable -- it depends on the requirement. For a "rune" or wchar_t, since 16 bits are not enough to provide the required functionality, 32 bits is the obvious choice. UTF16 encodes some characters as 2 consecutive units, which is foreign to the notion of rune or wide character. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 30 06:01:01 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 30 06:01:01 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 8757 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2001 06:10:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8753 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2001 06:10:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2001 06:10:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 036F3199F4; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 17:10:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (aragon.noos.net [212.198.2.75]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DCD811998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 17:09:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 12456612 invoked by uid 0); 29 Jun 2001 21:09:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.192]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.75 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 29 Jun 2001 21:09:36 -0000 Message-ID: <001f01c100df$a4274ab0$c0b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: , <3B10AAC6.996C5C63@null.net>, <3B39E316.12206DFD@ishtek.com> <3B3C833A.18E66768@null.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 (in)security MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 23:08:26 +0200 > Actually that is highly debatable -- it depends on the requirement. > For a "rune" or wchar_t, since 16 bits are not enough to provide > the required functionality, 32 bits is the obvious choice iirc chinese (mandarin) has some 60k chars. not that they're all used, but for completness's sake yer gonna need 32 bits. btw: to survive in japan you need ~2k chars, but most newspapers get by with ~6k. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 30 06:18:01 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 30 06:18:01 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 8839 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2001 06:27:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8835 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2001 06:27:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2001 06:27:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A4EF199F8; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 17:27:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (descartes.noos.net [212.198.2.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BEF951998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 17:26:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 11717501 invoked by uid 0); 29 Jun 2001 21:26:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.192]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.74 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 29 Jun 2001 21:26:12 -0000 Message-ID: <004301c100e1$f6021de0$c0b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010629074100.E90D01998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] formatting new floppy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 23:25:03 +0200 > disk/format -b /386/pbs -df /dev/fd0disk /386/9load /386/plan9.ini will die god that's a lot to type. my sony mavica formats disks easier. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 30 06:20:02 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 30 06:20:02 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 8851 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2001 06:29:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8847 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2001 06:29:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2001 06:29:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B9AB9199FF; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 17:29:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (claudel.noos.net [212.198.2.83]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 980791998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 17:28:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 12172820 invoked by uid 0); 29 Jun 2001 21:28:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.192]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.83 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 29 Jun 2001 21:28:17 -0000 Message-ID: <004b01c100e2$406208a0$c0b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <23603.993770440@apnic.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 23:27:07 +0200 > Should'a employed him then. Anybody slavish enough to dress up to get a job > is probably going to work hard for the first 7 months until disallusionment > sets in. they should come to france. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 30 06:21:01 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 30 06:21:01 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 8861 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2001 06:30:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8857 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2001 06:30:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2001 06:30:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6035919A03; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 17:30:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (verlaine.noos.net [212.198.2.73]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E92271998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 17:29:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 7199485 invoked by uid 0); 29 Jun 2001 21:29:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.192]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.73 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 29 Jun 2001 21:29:57 -0000 Message-ID: <005101c100e2$7c2fc980$c0b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010628235223.7ED80199EA@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] sam vs acme MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 23:28:48 +0200 > static const char * const ia64_reg_numbers[96] = > { "r32", "r33", "r34", "r35", "r36", "r37", "r38", "r39", am i cursed by the knowledge of enumeration? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 30 06:50:03 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 30 06:50:03 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 9016 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2001 06:59:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9012 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2001 06:59:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2001 06:59:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 63E4D19A04; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 17:59:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (zola.noos.net [212.198.2.76]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EF60E199F7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 17:58:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 11563649 invoked by uid 0); 29 Jun 2001 21:58:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.192]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.76 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 29 Jun 2001 21:58:58 -0000 Message-ID: <014501c100e6$89bb8310$c0b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010619171302.3531519A05@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Inferno plug-in security MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 23:57:46 +0200 > security consists of (at least?) two parts: authentication (who am i) and > authorization (what can i do). err well, you have to authenticate the thing you are talking to, so there's another piece that has to be done right. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 30 07:04:03 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 30 07:04:03 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 9090 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2001 07:13:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9086 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2001 07:13:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2001 07:13:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 676C219A07; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 18:13:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (mta05-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.45]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B1E82199F7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 18:12:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010629221209.QVIE284.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 23:12:09 +0100 Message-ID: <01ac01c100e8$905e5b00$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010619171302.3531519A05@mail.cse.psu.edu> <014501c100e6$89bb8310$c0b7c6d4@SOMA> Subject: Re: [9fans] Inferno plug-in security MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 23:12:19 +0100 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Boyd Roberts" Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 10:57 PM Subject: Re: [9fans] Inferno plug-in security > > security consists of (at least?) two parts: authentication (who am i) and > > authorization (what can i do). > > err well, you have to authenticate the thing you are talking to, so there's > another piece that has to be done right. but what's your overall opinion on how it should be done Boyd? You've got lots of security experience From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 30 07:05:04 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 30 07:05:04 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 9098 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2001 07:14:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9094 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2001 07:14:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2001 07:14:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A87EB19A09; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 18:14:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (aragon.noos.net [212.198.2.75]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 95377199F7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 18:13:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 12458193 invoked by uid 0); 29 Jun 2001 22:13:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.192]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.75 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 29 Jun 2001 22:13:04 -0000 Message-ID: <01fd01c100e8$82241520$c0b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010621142423.D9AFF199EB@mail.cse.psu.edu> <20010621111712.A2711@gmx.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] calling function with (variable number of) parameters MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 00:11:55 +0200 strangely enough, yes are singing: think it over good advice i'd say. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 30 07:23:01 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 30 07:23:01 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 9172 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2001 07:32:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9168 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2001 07:32:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2001 07:32:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6C08219A0E; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 18:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (claudel.noos.net [212.198.2.83]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5359C199F7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 18:31:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 12295814 invoked by uid 0); 29 Jun 2001 22:31:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.192]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.83 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 29 Jun 2001 22:31:57 -0000 Message-ID: <021601c100eb$2541fa40$c0b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010619171302.3531519A05@mail.cse.psu.edu> <014501c100e6$89bb8310$c0b7c6d4@SOMA> <01ac01c100e8$905e5b00$6401a8c0@freeze2k> Subject: Re: [9fans] Inferno plug-in security MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 00:30:45 +0200 > You've got lots of security experience so i am told. but it's always a trade-off -- what you want to protect and how much you're prepared to spend/invest to protect it. every situation is different. it even comes down to how long the information is valid for. guess the base level premise is: - you don't want to get ripped off [authentication] - they don't want to get ripped off [authentication] - the transaction has to happen in such a way -- ahh, non-repudiation is the word [my english/french is in a bit of a weird state after the london trip, but it's pretty much like that most of the time now] anyway, you can break it down to two rules: - what have you got to protect - how much are you prepared to spend and those two can be managed in interesting ways. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 30 07:25:02 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 30 07:25:02 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 9186 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2001 07:34:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9182 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2001 07:34:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2001 07:34:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 12D2E19A10; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 18:34:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (camus.noos.net [212.198.2.70]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D186199F7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 18:33:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 11449592 invoked by uid 0); 29 Jun 2001 22:33:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.192]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.70 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 29 Jun 2001 22:33:34 -0000 Message-ID: <022401c100eb$5f318540$c0b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200106261710.NAA06056@augusta.math.psu.edu> <200106262034.QAA06782@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: bitsy question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 00:32:25 +0200 > Cool. Any other New Yorker's? stair 9 is not that far from ny. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 30 07:40:03 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 30 07:40:03 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 9249 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2001 07:49:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9245 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2001 07:49:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2001 07:49:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A4EF819A11; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 18:49:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 22710199F1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 18:48:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freeze2k ([62.254.2.198]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010629224837.TWMV351.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@freeze2k> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 23:48:37 +0100 Message-ID: <01ba01c100ed$a85338c0$6401a8c0@freeze2k> From: "Matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010619171302.3531519A05@mail.cse.psu.edu> <014501c100e6$89bb8310$c0b7c6d4@SOMA> <01ac01c100e8$905e5b00$6401a8c0@freeze2k> <021601c100eb$2541fa40$c0b7c6d4@SOMA> Subject: Re: [9fans] Inferno plug-in security MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 23:48:47 +0100 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Boyd Roberts" > > You've got lots of security experience > > so i am told. so you tell :-) SFR, Paris, France End to end security study of HDML skills used : Cryptography, C, IP , IP Security France 3, Paris, France Design and development of client/server applications Design and installation of Firewall (SV5R4). skills used : Cryptography, C, IP , IP Security > anyway, you can break it down to two rules: > > - what have you got to protect > - how much are you prepared to spend > > and those two can be managed in interesting ways. surely that's just restating the problem? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 30 08:15:00 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 30 08:15:00 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 9435 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2001 08:24:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9431 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2001 08:24:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2001 08:24:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B8285199FA; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 19:24:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (claudel.noos.net [212.198.2.83]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D3589199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 19:23:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 12266026 invoked by uid 0); 29 Jun 2001 23:23:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.192]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.83 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 29 Jun 2001 23:23:30 -0000 Message-ID: <000901c100f2$58c13ff0$c0b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20010619171302.3531519A05@mail.cse.psu.edu> <014501c100e6$89bb8310$c0b7c6d4@SOMA> <01ac01c100e8$905e5b00$6401a8c0@freeze2k> <021601c100eb$2541fa40$c0b7c6d4@SOMA> <01ba01c100ed$a85338c0$6401a8c0@freeze2k> Subject: Re: [9fans] Inferno plug-in security MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 01:22:21 +0200 > so you tell :-) > SFR, Paris, France > End to end security study of HDML [WAP] yeah and soon i'll be able to tell the coolest/stupidist SFR screwup which involved security, but i have to re-read my contract. > France 3, Paris, France > Design and development of client/server applications > Design and installation of Firewall (SV5R4). yep when we used to build 'em by hand. i could tell you a story about gatekeeper.dec.com, when i was digital employee, but a reliable source tells me that i should keep that to myself. > skills used : Cryptography, C, IP , IP Security yeah that got used. i can tell you that alphas, DES and a chunk of disks were used. > surely that's just restating the problem? but that _is_ the problem. it's very simple. doing it right is the hard part. doug gywn is an infinitely better crypto source than i am. from my own observations and from a well know security presence, the bottom line is: this is no security no one cares. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 30 08:19:02 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 30 08:19:02 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 9459 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2001 08:28:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9455 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2001 08:28:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2001 08:28:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 14A8C19A14; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 19:28:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.noos.fr (racine.noos.net [212.198.2.71]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2A2D0199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 19:27:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 11744350 invoked by uid 0); 29 Jun 2001 23:27:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SOMA) ([212.198.183.192]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.71 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 29 Jun 2001 23:27:00 -0000 Message-ID: <002c01c100f2$d5d92cf0$c0b7c6d4@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] C++ compiler anyone? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 01:25:51 +0200 > does anyone have a functional C++ compiler ... it's questionable if such a thing exists. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 30 13:47:04 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 30 13:47:04 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 13852 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2001 13:56:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13848 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2001 13:56:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2001 13:56:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C317E19A12; Sat, 30 Jun 2001 00:56:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id D212F199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 30 Jun 2001 00:55:06 -0400 (EDT) From: David Gordon Hogan To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Inferno plug-in security MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010630045506.D212F199DD@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 00:55:03 -0400 > from my own observations and from a well know security presence, the bottom line is: > > this is no security This ain't no party This ain't no disco This ain't no fooling around