From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 1 00:09:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 1 00:09:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11401 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Feb 2003 00:09:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11397 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2003 00:09:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Feb 2003 00:09:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F1159199BB; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:09:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2FA17199A3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:08:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0VF8nGo021972 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 16:08:49 +0100 (MET) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0VF8m7U006549 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 16:08:48 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id h0VF8kD03966 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 16:08:47 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200301311508.h0VF8kD03966@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with version: MH 6.8.3 #20[UCI] To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 16:08:46 +0100 I'm trying to vac the dump of my current fs, using a modified version of nemo's mkvac script. At a particular point, this resulted in a broken vac, see acid dump below. I retried (with same arguments), with the same result. Then I tried to vac other (more recent) /n/dump directories, and that worked without problem. Any ideas, anyone? If more information would help to track down the problem, just let me know. Axel. The vac command was: vac -s -f dump/ofs/2002_0101.vac -d dump/ofs/2003_0101.vac -q /n/dump/2002/0101 cpu% ls -l vac --rwxrwxr-x M 1246 sys sys 173711 Dec 15 02:11 /386/bin/vac cpu% acid 8720 /proc/8720/text:386 plan 9 executable /sys/lib/acid/port /sys/lib/acid/386 acid: lstk() At pc:0x00010b2e:abort /sys/src/libc/9sys/abort.c:6 abort() /sys/src/libc/9sys/abort.c:6 called from _assert+0x3a /sys/src/libc/port/_assert.c:12 _assert(s=0x0001b388) /sys/src/libc/port/_assert.c:7 called from vtLockFree+0x54 /sys/src/libventi/plan9.c:245 vtLockFree(p=0x05090008) /sys/src/libventi/plan9.c:240 called from vfFree+0x27 /sys/src/cmd/vac/file.c:265 vfFree(vf=0x0508ff48) /sys/src/cmd/vac/file.c:261 called from vfDecRef+0x8f /sys/src/cmd/vac/file.c:983 vfDecRef(vf=0x0508ff48) /sys/src/cmd/vac/file.c:954 called from vacDir+0x1cc /sys/src/cmd/vac/vac.c:608 p=0x0506d968 qq=0x0506d9f8 vacDir(dsink=0x0504ae60,fd=0x00000008,lname=0x0506d8e8,sname=0x0506d928,vf=0x05 06d968) /sys/src/cmd/vac/vac.c:581 called from vacFile+0x17f /sys/src/cmd/vac/vac.c:437 ds=0x0506dcc8 dirs=0x0509ff08 nd=0x00000043 i=0x00000000 name=0x050a0ebc ln=0x0508fea8 sn=0x0508ff08 vvf=0x0508ff48 vacFile(lname=0x0506d8e8,dsink=0x0504ae60,sname=0x0506d928,vf=0x0506d968) /sys/src/cmd/vac/vac.c:399 called from vacDir+0x1bb /sys/src/cmd/vac/vac.c:605 fd=0x00000008 entry=0x00000000 dir=0x0506dbe8 vd=0x00000000 vacDir(dsink=0x050295d0,fd=0x00000007,lname=0x0504aac0,sname=0x0504ab00,vf=0x05 04ab40) /sys/src/cmd/vac/vac.c:581 called from vacFile+0x17f /sys/src/cmd/vac/vac.c:437 ds=0x0504ae60 dirs=0x0507d948 nd=0x00000009 i=0x00000000 name=0x0507db64 ln=0x0506d8e8 sn=0x0506d928 vvf=0x0506d968 vacFile(lname=0x0504aac0,dsink=0x050295d0,sname=0x0504ab00,vf=0x0504ab40) /sys/src/cmd/vac/vac.c:399 called from vacDir+0x1bb /sys/src/cmd/vac/vac.c:605 fd=0x00000007 entry=0x00000002 dir=0x0504ad80 vd=0x00000000 vacDir(dsink=0x00040438,fd=0x00000006,lname=0x7fffefea,sname=0x7fffeff7,vf=0x05 0292b0) /sys/src/cmd/vac/vac.c:581 called from vacFile+0x17f /sys/src/cmd/vac/vac.c:437 ds=0x050295d0 dirs=0x0505ab68 nd=0x0000001a i=0x00000001 name=0x0505b1c1 ln=0x0504aac0 sn=0x0504ab00 vvf=0x0504ab40 vacFile(lname=0x7fffefea,dsink=0x00040438,sname=0x7fffeff7,vf=0x050292b0) /sys/src/cmd/vac/vac.c:399 called from vac+0x235 /sys/src/cmd/vac/vac.c:308 fd=0x00000006 entry=0x00000000 dir=0x050294f0 vd=0x00000000 vac(z=0x0001f328,argv=0x7fffefa0) /sys/src/cmd/vac/vac.c:253 called from main+0x152 /sys/src/cmd/vac/vac.c:187 cwd=0x7273752f dsink=0x00040438 fs=0x00062488 fd=0x00000004 dir=0x050291d0 cd=0x00000001 cp2=0x7fffeff7 vff=0x050292b0 ms=0x000015c2 vd=0x00000000 ds=0x0000ccb0 root=0x00012177 buf=0x00000000 score=0x00011f45 i=0x00000000 main(argv=0x7fffefa0,argc=0x00000001) /sys/src/cmd/vac/vac.c:101 called from _main+0x31 /sys/src/libc/386/main9.s:16 host=0x00000000 statsFlag=0x00000001 _argc=0x00000071 _args=0x7fffefe9 p=0x00000000 z=0x0001f328 acid: From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 1 00:36:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 1 00:36:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11695 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Feb 2003 00:36:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11691 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2003 00:36:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Feb 2003 00:36:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D26B619988; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:36:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 273DE199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:35:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0VFZuGo022947 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 16:35:56 +0100 (MET) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0VFZt7U012755 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 16:35:55 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id h0VFZsY04092 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 16:35:54 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200301311535.h0VFZsY04092@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with version: MH 6.8.3 #20[UCI] To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] u9fs In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:50:03 -0500." <37b786bb09656d2a3ea7cc27a27ad3ea@plan9.bell-labs.com> References: <37b786bb09656d2a3ea7cc27a27ad3ea@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 16:35:54 +0100 > There are changes to u9fs on sources that add support > for p9any as an authentication protocol. Thanks to Nigel. Great! Thanks! I reintegrated my u9fs modifications mentioned on the list before (for previous u9fs versions); I (think I) need them because my plan 9 user list differs from the unix user list, and these lists are managed by different people. They consist of a plan9-user to unix-user username mapping via a mapping file, and a hack to recognize '-lunixuser' in the attach name as a way to specify the unix-user name. I think(*) I like this flexibility, as I only use one plan 9 account but several unix ones. (*) it is all a bit experimental -- finding out what I want/need; right now I even don't rule out the potential conclusion that what I'm doing is too much, such that it can be removed again. My modifications worked nicely in combination with .rhosts authentication, because then a unix user had to explictly allow attach from plan 9 as his/her via an entry in .rhosts. With p9any this `limitation' is no longer there, allowing in principle to attach as any unix user (except root). To counter this, I added yet another modification, which kind of imitates the .rhosts file. With this modification, attach from plan9 only succeeds if the plan 9 user name is present in a .u9fs file in the home dir of the unix user as whom we try to attach. In particular, this means that to attach as unix user ``A'' it is no longer sufficient to just add a new user ``A'' on plan 9; user ``A'' on unix must explictly allow the attach via his .u9fs file. The code I have just works and still needs cleaning up (is still full of detailed debugging print statements); if there is interest I can post or put on the web. On a related note: I noticed that in the transition from 3ed to 4ed u9fs lost its -r (readonly) flag; are there particular reasons for that? I have been toying with the idea of allowing even greater control at the unix side, by allowing a ``readonly'' keyword with a user name in the .u9fs file. Suppose I would like to put readonly access back in, would it be sufficient to look at 3ed u9fs and ``copy'' from there? Or are there cases that I would miss? Axel. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 1 01:08:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 1 01:08:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12053 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Feb 2003 01:08:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12049 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2003 01:08:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Feb 2003 01:08:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7EA92199BB; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:08:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from doppio.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 19EBD199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:07:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from 200.1.1.126 ([200.1.1.126]) by doppio; Fri Jan 31 16:10:19 GMT 2003 From: "Nigel Roles" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: RE: [9fans] u9fs Message-ID: <00f801c2c942$d8eed330$7e0101c8@bambino> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <200301311535.h0VFZsY04092@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> Importance: Normal Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 16:07:21 -0000 > I have been toying with the idea of allowing even greater control at the unix side, by allowing a ``readonly'' > keyword with a user name in the .u9fs file. Suppose I would like to put readonly access back in, would it be > sufficient to look at 3ed u9fs and ``copy'' from there? Or are there cases that I would miss? I would expect that if you make Twrite, Twstat, Tremove, and Tcreate fail, that would do just fine. Make sure that Twrites to auth fids are still allowed. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 1 01:24:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 1 01:24:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12254 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Feb 2003 01:24:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12250 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2003 01:24:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Feb 2003 01:24:44 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 55EE6199ED; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:24:23 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E1739199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:23:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19592dd6a42163c43a3d1a6ab5ee7991@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] broken vac From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <200301311508.h0VF8kD03966@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:23:59 +0100 Forgot to say: The same happen to me and they asked me to do that. It now works fine. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 1 01:24:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 1 01:24:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12246 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Feb 2003 01:24:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12242 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2003 01:24:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Feb 2003 01:24:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AA680199BF; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:24:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B127D199A3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:23:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <16c0c3f546e0e3ca32b7e46a90d0076f@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] broken vac From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <200301311508.h0VF8kD03966@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-gzhgbjveqsdfvwpcoqcyjzqour" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:23:10 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-gzhgbjveqsdfvwpcoqcyjzqour Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Change vtLockFree with this: void vtLockFree(VtLock *p) { if(p == nil) return; assert(p->writer == nil); assert(p->readers == 0); assert(p->qfirst == nil); vtMemFree(p); } --upas-gzhgbjveqsdfvwpcoqcyjzqour Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Fri Jan 31 16:09:39 MET 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F1159199BB; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:09:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2FA17199A3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:08:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0VF8nGo021972 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 16:08:49 +0100 (MET) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0VF8m7U006549 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 16:08:48 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id h0VF8kD03966 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 16:08:47 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200301311508.h0VF8kD03966@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with version: MH 6.8.3 #20[UCI] To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 16:08:46 +0100 I'm trying to vac the dump of my current fs, using a modified version of nemo's mkvac script. At a particular point, this resulted in a broken vac, see acid dump below. I retried (with same arguments), with the same result. Then I tried to vac other (more recent) /n/dump directories, and that worked without problem. Any ideas, anyone? If more information would help to track down the problem, just let me know. Axel. The vac command was: vac -s -f dump/ofs/2002_0101.vac -d dump/ofs/2003_0101.vac -q /n/dump/2002/0101 cpu% ls -l vac --rwxrwxr-x M 1246 sys sys 173711 Dec 15 02:11 /386/bin/vac cpu% acid 8720 /proc/8720/text:386 plan 9 executable /sys/lib/acid/port /sys/lib/acid/386 acid: lstk() At pc:0x00010b2e:abort /sys/src/libc/9sys/abort.c:6 abort() /sys/src/libc/9sys/abort.c:6 called from _assert+0x3a /sys/src/libc/port/_assert.c:12 _assert(s=0x0001b388) /sys/src/libc/port/_assert.c:7 called from vtLockFree+0x54 /sys/src/libventi/plan9.c:245 vtLockFree(p=0x05090008) /sys/src/libventi/plan9.c:240 called from vfFree+0x27 /sys/src/cmd/vac/file.c:265 vfFree(vf=0x0508ff48) /sys/src/cmd/vac/file.c:261 called from vfDecRef+0x8f /sys/src/cmd/vac/file.c:983 vfDecRef(vf=0x0508ff48) /sys/src/cmd/vac/file.c:954 called from vacDir+0x1cc /sys/src/cmd/vac/vac.c:608 p=0x0506d968 qq=0x0506d9f8 vacDir(dsink=0x0504ae60,fd=0x00000008,lname=0x0506d8e8,sname=0x0506d928,vf=0x05 06d968) /sys/src/cmd/vac/vac.c:581 called from vacFile+0x17f /sys/src/cmd/vac/vac.c:437 ds=0x0506dcc8 dirs=0x0509ff08 nd=0x00000043 i=0x00000000 name=0x050a0ebc ln=0x0508fea8 sn=0x0508ff08 vvf=0x0508ff48 vacFile(lname=0x0506d8e8,dsink=0x0504ae60,sname=0x0506d928,vf=0x0506d968) /sys/src/cmd/vac/vac.c:399 called from vacDir+0x1bb /sys/src/cmd/vac/vac.c:605 fd=0x00000008 entry=0x00000000 dir=0x0506dbe8 vd=0x00000000 vacDir(dsink=0x050295d0,fd=0x00000007,lname=0x0504aac0,sname=0x0504ab00,vf=0x05 04ab40) /sys/src/cmd/vac/vac.c:581 called from vacFile+0x17f /sys/src/cmd/vac/vac.c:437 ds=0x0504ae60 dirs=0x0507d948 nd=0x00000009 i=0x00000000 name=0x0507db64 ln=0x0506d8e8 sn=0x0506d928 vvf=0x0506d968 vacFile(lname=0x0504aac0,dsink=0x050295d0,sname=0x0504ab00,vf=0x0504ab40) /sys/src/cmd/vac/vac.c:399 called from vacDir+0x1bb /sys/src/cmd/vac/vac.c:605 fd=0x00000007 entry=0x00000002 dir=0x0504ad80 vd=0x00000000 vacDir(dsink=0x00040438,fd=0x00000006,lname=0x7fffefea,sname=0x7fffeff7,vf=0x05 0292b0) /sys/src/cmd/vac/vac.c:581 called from vacFile+0x17f /sys/src/cmd/vac/vac.c:437 ds=0x050295d0 dirs=0x0505ab68 nd=0x0000001a i=0x00000001 name=0x0505b1c1 ln=0x0504aac0 sn=0x0504ab00 vvf=0x0504ab40 vacFile(lname=0x7fffefea,dsink=0x00040438,sname=0x7fffeff7,vf=0x050292b0) /sys/src/cmd/vac/vac.c:399 called from vac+0x235 /sys/src/cmd/vac/vac.c:308 fd=0x00000006 entry=0x00000000 dir=0x050294f0 vd=0x00000000 vac(z=0x0001f328,argv=0x7fffefa0) /sys/src/cmd/vac/vac.c:253 called from main+0x152 /sys/src/cmd/vac/vac.c:187 cwd=0x7273752f dsink=0x00040438 fs=0x00062488 fd=0x00000004 dir=0x050291d0 cd=0x00000001 cp2=0x7fffeff7 vff=0x050292b0 ms=0x000015c2 vd=0x00000000 ds=0x0000ccb0 root=0x00012177 buf=0x00000000 score=0x00011f45 i=0x00000000 main(argv=0x7fffefa0,argc=0x00000001) /sys/src/cmd/vac/vac.c:101 called from _main+0x31 /sys/src/libc/386/main9.s:16 host=0x00000000 statsFlag=0x00000001 _argc=0x00000071 _args=0x7fffefe9 p=0x00000000 z=0x0001f328 acid: --upas-gzhgbjveqsdfvwpcoqcyjzqour-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 1 01:34:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 1 01:34:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12475 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Feb 2003 01:34:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12471 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2003 01:34:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Feb 2003 01:34:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 02D07199E4; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:34:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (closedmind.org [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 16A02199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:33:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Jan 31 11:33:34 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.235.46 ([141.154.235.46]) by plan9; Fri Jan 31 11:33:31 EST 2003 Message-ID: <59c914ccad66f83c07d9006814b18a5b@plan9.bell-labs.com> X-Plan9-Fortune: When in doubt, twirl. -Ted Shawn To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] broken vac From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <16c0c3f546e0e3ca32b7e46a90d0076f@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:33:40 -0500 If you have the most recent vac binary (Dec 15) you should already have that copy of vtLockFree. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 1 01:40:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 1 01:40:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12543 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Feb 2003 01:40:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12539 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2003 01:40:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Feb 2003 01:40:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4528819988; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:40:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (closedmind.org [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9093F199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:39:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Jan 31 11:39:24 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.235.46 ([141.154.235.46]) by plan9; Fri Jan 31 11:39:22 EST 2003 Message-ID: <389f7c6be0fd771d00fd464fe5c95a37@plan9.bell-labs.com> X-Plan9-Fortune: The universe is laughing behind your back. To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: RE: [9fans] u9fs From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <00f801c2c942$d8eed330$7e0101c8@bambino> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:39:29 -0500 > I would expect that if you make Twrite, Twstat, Tremove, and Tcreate > fail, that would do just fine. > Make sure that Twrites to auth fids are still allowed. Also Topen ORCLOSE, OTRUNC. The new u9fs doesn't have a -r flag because we don't use it, so I didn't implement it. Same for chroot and some other things that have made their way back. While I'd be happy to pick up a -r flag, I'm hesitant about having a per-directory .u9fs file. That seems too specific to your particular case. I'm torn about the uid mappings. I feel like there should be a more general solution. With real authentication, factotum just does the right thing. (For example, I have an account called bozo on sources. I run 9fs sources and it automatically uses that name because it's the only key I have for the machine.) When there's no authentication, it's a little harder. I'm having the same problem with an NFS client I'm writing. I'm not sure what to do. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 1 03:24:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 1 03:24:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13465 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Feb 2003 03:24:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13461 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2003 03:24:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Feb 2003 03:24:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 37855199B3; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:24:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0228519980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:23:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0VIN7Go027100 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 19:23:07 +0100 (MET) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0VIN47U007178 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 19:23:07 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id h0VIN3i04754 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 19:23:04 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200301311823.h0VIN3i04754@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with version: MH 6.8.3 #20[UCI] To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] u9fs In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:39:29 -0500." <389f7c6be0fd771d00fd464fe5c95a37@plan9.bell-labs.com> References: <389f7c6be0fd771d00fd464fe5c95a37@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 19:23:03 +0100 > The new u9fs doesn't have > a -r flag because we don't use it, > so I didn't implement it. Same for > chroot and some other things that > have made their way back. That's the reason I expected. Good. > While I'd be happy to pick up a -r flag, I'm > hesitant about having a per-directory .u9fs file. (one per-user (in the user's unix home directory)) > That seems too specific to your particular case. Probably it is. One the one hand I like the idea of giving the unix user a choice; on the other hand, it's a bit (too?) much. > I'm torn about the uid mappings. I feel like > there should be a more general solution. That would be great. > With real authentication, factotum just does > the right thing. (For example, I have an account > called bozo on sources. I run 9fs sources and it > automatically uses that name because it's the only > key I have for the machine.) ... because you have only one account at the machine, or, at least, only one that is `interesting enough' to have a key for in factotum. The nice behaviour in your example immediately illustrates the disadvantage of my overloading-of- attach-name hack: you not only can, but also have to specify the unix user name. If you want to (be able to) choose, you need (a way) to `voice' your choice. So, the problem seems to start with the possibility of having a one-to-many mapping, because then a choice has to be made, and voiced. But isn't this problem similar to the problem of having multiple remote accounts on a single machine, and then having to choose/identify one of them, when making a connection to that host (e.g.) via ssh? In this respect, the idea of the (one-to-one) mapping file (which, I think, was suggested by Forsyth in an earlier discussion about u9fs) is better, because it just specifies a fixed one-to-one (or maybe many-to-one but not one-to-many) plan9->unix name mapping that is just slightly different from the also fixed one-to-one (identity function) plan9->unix name mapping in the unmodified u9fs. You just have one name at the unix system (either identical to your plan 9 name, or different from it, but then automated via the mapping file so it is out of your hands anyway), which allows the same automation as in your example. W.r.t. ~/.u9fs files: If you don't have the general flexible -lunixuser attach name hack (and you trust the maintainer of the mapping file if it's there), and you trust your plan 9 administrator not to add plan 9 users just to get at unix files, there probably is no need for the ~/.u9fs files. > When there's no authentication, it's a little harder. > I'm having the same problem with an NFS client I'm > writing. I'm not sure what to do. Axel. (who wonders when he will learn to write concisely) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 1 03:38:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 1 03:38:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13571 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Feb 2003 03:38:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13567 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2003 03:38:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Feb 2003 03:38:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6BE0D199A3; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:38:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DBB0319999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:37:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0VIb7Go027359 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 19:37:07 +0100 (MET) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0VIb77U008123 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 19:37:07 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id h0VIb6v04783 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 19:37:06 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200301311837.h0VIb6v04783@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with version: MH 6.8.3 #20[UCI] To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] broken vac In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:33:40 -0500." <59c914ccad66f83c07d9006814b18a5b@plan9.bell-labs.com> References: <59c914ccad66f83c07d9006814b18a5b@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 19:37:05 +0100 > If you have the most recent vac binary (Dec 15) > you should already have that copy of vtLockFree. Hmmm... I have that one, and I think that is the one I used. In case it matters: the venti binary is from Dec 13 (With vac's running, I did not yet update venti). Axel. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 1 03:42:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 1 03:42:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13603 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Feb 2003 03:42:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13599 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2003 03:42:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Feb 2003 03:42:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3A056199A3; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:42:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from magnum.cooper.edu (magnum.cooper.edu [199.98.16.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id D440E199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:40:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from robin.cooper.edu by magnum.cooper.edu with SMTP id AA08432 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:43:47 -0500 Received: from localhost by robin.cooper.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA12480; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:40:57 -0500 From: Joel Salomon To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] x Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:40:57 -0500 (EST) I mounted the X11.iso, ran the /n/dist/setup(? - I'm writing from school and can't recall the exact command), and all seemed to work. However, replica/pull /n/dist/X11 exited quietly, doing nothing. The file that normally has the file list (X11.db ?) is empty. Any ideas? --Joel ______________________________________________________ Due to economic circumstances, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 1 03:46:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 1 03:46:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13675 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Feb 2003 03:46:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13671 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2003 03:46:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Feb 2003 03:46:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 69D36199D5; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:46:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (huygens.org [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CF48A199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:45:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Jan 31 13:45:17 EST 2003 Received: from 18.24.6.142 ([18.24.6.142]) by plan9; Fri Jan 31 13:45:15 EST 2003 Message-ID: <6c298cdff8cac479c72d9fb081f33a52@plan9.bell-labs.com> X-Plan9-Fortune: Contrary to English and other similar languages, Turkish can be hyphenated with a simple 4 state finite-state machine. To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] u9fs From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <200301311823.h0VIN3i04754@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:45:13 -0500 > ... because you have only one account at the machine, > or, at least, only one that is `interesting enough' > to have a key for in factotum. Not exactly true. Factotum uses the first one it finds. If I wanted to use a different key I could use, for example, mount -k 'user=glenda' /srv/sources /n/sources cpu -k 'user=glenda' -h sources to select a key. Of course, the fact that I'm selecting on the user attribute is not why this works. I could select on any attribute in the key, and then that key (with its user name) will be used. This works really well when there are keys. When there are not keys, it's harder because there are no Tauth messages in which to pass remote user names. We could invent a `unix' protocol consisting of sending a uid, but there's no authentication in that. The ssh user@host syntax is annoying but standard in the SSH world. It is also somewhat necessary given how SSH chooses to run its authentication: you declare user up front, and then try a whole bunch of authentication methods. You can't change your user name after one fails. As for ~/.u9fs or uid mappings on the server, there's really little point. If you're using .rhosts authentication, then there's nothing stopping me from making my own connection to the u9fs service (with aux/9pcon or more usefully with a 9P filter in front of the kernel) and sending whatever attach name I want. There's no authentication here, and I don't want to start pretending there is. It is worth noting, though, that if your Plan 9 system is not listed in /etc/rhosts.equiv, then users can opt in or out by editing their .rhosts files already. So you really don't need a .u9fs file. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 1 03:53:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 1 03:53:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13728 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Feb 2003 03:53:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13724 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2003 03:53:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Feb 2003 03:53:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5AF9E199EE; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:53:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6E480199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:52:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0VIqaGo027632 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 19:52:36 +0100 (MET) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0VIqZ7U009470 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 19:52:35 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id h0VIqYN04858 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 19:52:34 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200301311852.h0VIqYN04858@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] broken vac In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 31 Jan 2003 19:37:05 +0100." <200301311837.h0VIb6v04783@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> References: <59c914ccad66f83c07d9006814b18a5b@plan9.bell-labs.com> <200301311837.h0VIb6v04783@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 19:52:34 +0100 > > If you have the most recent vac binary (Dec 15) > > you should already have that copy of vtLockFree. The broken vac still is around in broke(n) state. Is there a way to check that it is indeed the Dec 15 version? I tried: cmp /proc/number/text /bin/vac which did not report differences; is that what I need, or will the text file point to the new binary if I update the binary on the system? Axel. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 1 03:58:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 1 03:58:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13767 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Feb 2003 03:58:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13763 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2003 03:58:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Feb 2003 03:58:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D78A1199ED; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:58:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (huygens.org [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 41527199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:57:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Jan 31 13:57:35 EST 2003 Received: from 18.24.6.142 ([18.24.6.142]) by plan9; Fri Jan 31 13:57:32 EST 2003 Message-ID: X-Plan9-Fortune: Our vision will speed up time, eventually deleting it. -Alexander Schure To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] broken vac From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <200301311852.h0VIqYN04858@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:57:37 -0500 The cmp is fine. You have the latest vac. Something else is wrong. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 1 07:03:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 1 07:03:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15532 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Feb 2003 07:03:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15528 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2003 07:03:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Feb 2003 07:03:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D37CC199BF; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:03:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3A22F199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:02:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h0VM2QT1022820 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 14:02:27 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <99ca82119b7e4f38ab8b26bf55d6e9d7@centurytel.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Skip Tavakkolian" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] minor 9P(2) manpage nit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 14:13:50 -0800 The description for Read service function says: "The read function must be provided; it fills r->ofcall.data with at most r->ifcall.count bytes of data from offset r->ofcall.offset of the file." I think the offset should be r->ifcall.offset From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 1 07:09:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 1 07:09:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15606 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Feb 2003 07:09:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15602 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2003 07:09:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Feb 2003 07:09:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 44995199EC; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:09:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (huygens.org [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 22FF7199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:08:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Jan 31 17:08:32 EST 2003 Received: from 18.24.6.142 ([18.24.6.142]) by plan9; Fri Jan 31 17:08:30 EST 2003 Message-ID: X-Plan9-Fortune: Life is very strange - compared to what? - Penn Jillette To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] minor 9P(2) manpage nit From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <99ca82119b7e4f38ab8b26bf55d6e9d7@centurytel.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:08:31 -0500 Thanks. Fixed. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 1 07:55:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 1 07:55:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16200 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Feb 2003 07:55:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16196 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2003 07:55:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Feb 2003 07:55:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1E88C199B6; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:55:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A993419988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:54:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0VMsHGo002069 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 23:54:17 +0100 (MET) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0VMsG7U028271 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 23:54:16 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id h0VMsF305363 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 23:54:15 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200301312254.h0VMsF305363@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] u9fs In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:45:13 -0500." <6c298cdff8cac479c72d9fb081f33a52@plan9.bell-labs.com> References: <6c298cdff8cac479c72d9fb081f33a52@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 23:54:15 +0100 > If I wanted to use a different key I could use, for example, > > mount -k 'user=glenda' /srv/sources /n/sources > cpu -k 'user=glenda' -h sources Thanks, I was not aware of this -k feature. > really little point. If you're using .rhosts authentication, > then there's nothing stopping me from making my own > connection to the u9fs service (with aux/9pcon or more > usefully with a 9P filter in front of the kernel) and sending > whatever attach name I want. There's no authentication > here, and I don't want to start pretending there is. I know, but this rhost auth case is not an issue, for me, here, because I don't intend to use it any longer. This all started because I wanted to move from rhost auth to now available p9any auth. So, the .u9fs was meant as 'sort of' equivalent (wrt opt-in/opt-out) to .rhosts in the case of p9any/p9sk1 authentication, for the -luser attach hack. With p9any auth, the plan 9 user can not just be anyone, but is authenticated, right? > It is worth noting, though, that if your Plan 9 system is not listed > in /etc/rhosts.equiv, then users can opt in or out by editing > their .rhosts files already. So you really don't need a .u9fs file. Been there, used that - that is what I depended on so far. However, I wanted to: - get rid of rhosts authentication (the u9fs source advices against it, I don't feel safe; main thing I dislike about it is that a user using it to opt-in for u9fs autonagically also opts-in for rsh etc., which is more than wanted/needed) - instead, use newly available p9any/p9sk1 authentication (by which I loose the opt-in/out feature of rhost with plan 9 system not in host.equiv) - have flexibility by -luser attach name (now I need opt-in/out for the users) That's why I came up with .u9fs -- opt-in/out at the unix side to complement p9any authentication, giving me something functionally similar to rhosts with empty hosts.equiv, but using Plan 9 authentication, resulting in something stronger than rhosts auth, I hope, something no longer also allowing rsh,rlogin, at least mot from the plan 9 systen. Axel. 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. --1703560946.1044077889484.JavaMail.SYSTEM.emaserver2-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 1 22:28:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 1 22:28:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31208 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Feb 2003 22:28:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31204 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2003 22:28:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Feb 2003 22:28:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 403E8199BE; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 08:28:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from bootes.borf.com (borf.com [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3425E199BC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 08:27:47 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: sah@coraid.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] 00E & projector Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 08:29:52 -0500 When I hook up our projector to the video out on my TP 600E I get an interesting result. The screen is properly exported to the projector all through the log on process, but once rio kicks up I lose the feed - presumably - and the screen goes blue (projector driven). Thoughts? Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 2 00:38:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 2 00:38:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32585 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Feb 2003 00:38:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32581 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2003 00:38:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Feb 2003 00:38:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ED04F199B6; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 10:38:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9 (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B33CE199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 10:37:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: X-Plan9-Fortune: It's earlier than you think. From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 00E & projector In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 10:37:07 -0500 Are you running your screen at a higher resolution than the projector supports? That's what it sounds like. It's also possible we screwed up the CRT code -- it doesn't get exercised much -- but usually if you Fn-F7 to get it working before aux/vga, it keeps working. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 2 01:49:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 2 01:49:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 894 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Feb 2003 01:49:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 890 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2003 01:49:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Feb 2003 01:49:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1BCC5199DD; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 11:49:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EDA20199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 11:48:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h11GmTt03080 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 11:48:29 -0500 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] 00E & projector In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 11:48:29 -0500 (EST) It's been a while since I've tried it (we gave up before because we didn't have time to debug the problem), but I believe I tried several different resolutions. I'm preparing for a talk in late Feb, so I'll poke at it some more and come back with data. Sam On Sat, 1 Feb 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > Are you running your screen at a higher resolution > than the projector supports? That's what it sounds > like. It's also possible we screwed up the CRT > code -- it doesn't get exercised much -- but usually > if you Fn-F7 to get it working before aux/vga, > it keeps working. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 2 02:42:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 2 02:42:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1728 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Feb 2003 02:42:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1724 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2003 02:42:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Feb 2003 02:42:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 950F2199E8; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 12:42:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.dirac.net (unknown [151.196.211.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8DD7C199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 12:41:54 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 16468 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Feb 2003 17:40:37 -0000 Message-ID: <20030201174037.16467.qmail@mail.dirac.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] got a new feature: learning of resources and switching among them From: Keith Nash Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 1 Feb 2003 17:40:37 -0000 1. Are redirfs, badsrv, intended to do the same thing as "Plan B"? 2. > > Did anyone (anywhere) ever implement the Resource Location Protocol? > > > > ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc887.txt > > I'm not certain, but it's functionally similar to a half-dozen other > protocols, such as Service Location Protocol ( > http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2165.html ) which I think only Sun and Apple > ever put into use, and then Apple abandoned for multicast DNS ( > http://www.multicastdns.org/ ) and DNS Service Discovery ( > http://www.dns-sd.org/ ). Apple's latest use of this technology is Rendezvous, which is part of OSX, and is open-source: Open source project page and download: http://developer.apple.com/darwin/projects/rendezvous/ OSX glossy page: http://www.apple.com/macosx/jaguar/rendezvous.html press release: http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2002/sep/25rendezvous.html 3. > > We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I > are going to spend the rest of our lives. > > Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" The film that our favourite OS is named after is SO, SO, BAD, that if you start to watch it, the only ways to avoid being bored to death are: (a) to switch it off immediately; (b) to gnaw off your own left leg. Anyone who remembers dialogue, or the names of characters, must obviously have chosen the latter route. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 2 02:46:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 2 02:46:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1770 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Feb 2003 02:46:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1766 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2003 02:46:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Feb 2003 02:46:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 115AA199D5; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 12:46:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 307A519981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 12:45:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sat Feb 1 12:45:49 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.234.88 ([141.154.234.88]) by plan9; Sat Feb 1 12:45:47 EST 2003 Message-ID: X-Plan9-Fortune: A penny in hand worth a pound in hope. To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] got a new feature: learning of resources and switching among them From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030201174037.16467.qmail@mail.dirac.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 12:46:01 -0500 I sure wish other OSes would get around to implement this rendezvous: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/magic/man2html/2/rendezvous > The film that our favourite OS is named after is SO, SO, BAD, that if > you start to watch it, the only ways to avoid being bored to death > are: (a) to switch it off immediately; (b) to gnaw off your own left > leg. Anyone who remembers dialogue, or the names of characters, must > obviously have chosen the latter route. You must have watched a different film than I did. I certainly wasn't bored to death, and I've watched it three or four times now. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 2 02:54:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 2 02:54:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1868 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Feb 2003 02:54:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1864 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2003 02:54:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Feb 2003 02:54:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8192E199BF; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 12:54:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.dirac.net (unknown [151.196.211.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A642C199BC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 12:53:54 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 16591 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Feb 2003 17:52:37 -0000 Message-ID: <20030201175237.16590.qmail@mail.dirac.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] got a new feature: learning of resources and switching among them From: Keith Nash Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 1 Feb 2003 17:52:37 -0000 > You must have watched a different film than I did. > I certainly wasn't bored to death, and I've watched it three or four times now. Hmm. I switched the film off after 5 minutes, having concluded that it richly deserves the title of the "Worst Film Ever Made". Perhaps it gets better later on... BTW, how many limbs have you got left? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 2 02:58:16 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 2 02:58:16 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1921 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Feb 2003 02:58:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1917 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2003 02:58:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Feb 2003 02:58:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B244199E4; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 12:58:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D83E199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 12:57:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.7) with ESMTP id 452424 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 01 Feb 2003 11:57:19 -0600 Message-ID: <5a23a979fd477f6a7e3d2dcd7fbbc152@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] got a new feature: learning of resources and switching among them From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <20030201175237.16590.qmail@mail.dirac.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 09:56:50 -0800 > it richly deserves the title of the "Worst Film Ever Made" You have to see every movie ever made before you can bestow that title, let alone "richly". It is one of the most entertaining I've ever seen. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 2 02:59:14 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 2 02:59:14 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1934 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Feb 2003 02:59:12 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1930 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2003 02:59:12 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Feb 2003 02:59:12 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 526F819A00; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 12:59:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F051F19981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 12:58:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h11Hwegp008923 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 10:58:40 -0700 Received: (qmail 5229 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2003 10:58:39 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 1 Feb 2003 10:58:39 -0700 Received: (qmail 22525 invoked by uid 3499); 1 Feb 2003 10:58:39 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 1 Feb 2003 10:58:39 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 00E & projector In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 10:58:39 -0700 (MST) On Sat, 1 Feb 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > Are you running your screen at a higher resolution > than the projector supports? That's what it sounds > like. It's also possible we screwed up the CRT > code -- it doesn't get exercised much -- but usually > if you Fn-F7 to get it working before aux/vga, > it keeps working. Another common problem when you go to graphics mode on older thinkpads -- there is a "feature" that doesn't work with all projectors in which the thinkpad hardware tries to autodetect external vga, and won't drive it unless it detects it. Well, guess what, it didn't always work, as I found at one conference where I went through three projectors and had to give up and "talk to my slides" while the audience watched a blank screen for 45 minutes. I doubt more than 75% of them fell asleep, but I'm an optimist -- oh, no, wait, I'm not. There was a linux utility to fix this on the 570, and I wonder if the same problem exists on the 600. The linux utility just jammed some random magic hardware bit and all was well (disabled the hardware mis-feature). So it can look like a resolution problem but actually be something else. Best bet is try 640x480 first, and if that doesn't fix it, then the problem is something else. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 2 03:14:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 2 03:14:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2077 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Feb 2003 03:14:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2073 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2003 03:14:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Feb 2003 03:14:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2B0A5199DD; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 13:14:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.dirac.net (unknown [151.196.211.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 24429199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 13:13:09 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 16673 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Feb 2003 18:11:57 -0000 Message-ID: <20030201181157.16672.qmail@mail.dirac.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] got a new feature: learning of resources and switching among them From: Keith Nash Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 1 Feb 2003 18:11:57 -0000 > It is one of the most entertaining I've ever seen. OK, I give in: I'll attempt to watch it again next time it's on TV. How many layers of ironic detachment do I need to insert, in order to be entertained? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 2 03:26:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 2 03:26:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2206 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Feb 2003 03:26:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2202 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2003 03:26:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Feb 2003 03:26:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0F0AA19981; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 13:26:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B9BED19981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 13:25:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13565 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 13:25:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h11IPnw25509 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 13:25:49 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302011825.h11IPnw25509@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] got a new feature: learning of resources and switching among them In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 01 Feb 2003 09:56:50 PST." <5a23a979fd477f6a7e3d2dcd7fbbc152@mightycheese.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 13:25:49 -0500 The inimitable Rob Pike writes: > It is one of the most entertaining I've ever seen. Let's see; alien invaders use reanimated zombies to try and take over the earth. *Right*. You just find it entertaining because.... ``You're stupid! Stupid! Stupid! Stupid!'' Sorry, I couldn't resist. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 2 03:30:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 2 03:30:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2236 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Feb 2003 03:30:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2232 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2003 03:30:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Feb 2003 03:30:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 66B0319A06; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 13:30:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4E51519A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 13:29:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sat Feb 1 13:29:12 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.234.88 ([141.154.234.88]) by plan9; Sat Feb 1 13:29:10 EST 2003 Message-ID: X-Plan9-Fortune: Life is hard. It's even harder if you're stupid. To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] got a new feature: learning of resources and switching among them From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <200302011825.h11IPnw25509@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 13:29:18 -0500 The quote is ``You see? You see? Your stupid minds... stupid! Stupid!!'' From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 2 04:51:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 2 04:51:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3354 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Feb 2003 04:51:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3350 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2003 04:51:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Feb 2003 04:51:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A640A199E4; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 14:51:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (closedmind.org [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 29FC2199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 14:50:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] got a new feature: learning of resources and switching among them In-Reply-To: <20030201174037.16467.qmail@mail.dirac.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 14:50:10 -0500 > The film that our favourite OS is named after is SO, SO, BAD, I was forced to watch, or at least ignore it, something like 50 times in a few days. Seanq, dmr, and manned a plan 9 booth at a trade show many years back where it was showing continuously on a number of screens. To make it even more surreal, the booth across from ours was putting on live David Letterman like talk shows over and over and over again. Amazingly enough, programming in the Microsoft world for the last month or so gives me an odd feeling of deja vu. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 2 05:38:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 2 05:38:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3835 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Feb 2003 05:38:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3831 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2003 05:38:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Feb 2003 05:38:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EAF33199E8; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 15:38:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from infocom.km.ua (infocom.km.ua [195.230.134.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 94D05199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 15:37:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from kp.km.ua (root@kp.km.ua [217.196.174.2]) by infocom.km.ua (8.12.7/8.12.7/ic) with ESMTP id h11KawMv010815 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 22:36:59 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Received: from localhost.localdomain (dialup05.kp.km.ua [217.196.174.20]) by kp.km.ua (kp.km.ua/8.12.6/kp-branch) with SMTP id h11KasSM019835 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 22:36:55 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" From: "Andrey S. Kukhar" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] wood`s plan 9 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <03020122211300.00526@localhost.localdomain> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 22:34:51 -0500 you will laugh, I am a fan of Ed Wood and his films, I read many reviews, saw many images, listened many sound files from Plan 9 From Outer Space, but I have not seen it yet! all I have found online is the three short scenes: http://multimedia.badmovies.org/movies/plannine1.mpg http://www.fantascienza.com/cinema/multimedia/plan9/ah_yes.mov http://www.fantascienza.com/cinema/multimedia/plan9/cimiter.mov do you know where I can find full online version (may be mpeg4) of the movie? Anyone help? P.S. Its missing on TV and in shops From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 2 08:35:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 2 08:35:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5946 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Feb 2003 08:35:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5942 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2003 08:35:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Feb 2003 08:35:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D32F919A00; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 18:35:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3840C199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 18:34:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA22501 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 18:34:34 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) id h11NYXD26576; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 18:34:33 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302012334.h11NYXD26576@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] got a new feature: learning of resources and switching among them Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: References: <200302011825.h11IPnw25509@augusta.math.psu.edu> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 18:34:33 -0500 (EST) In article you write: >The quote is ``You see? You see? Your stupid minds... stupid! Stupid!!'' Ehh, close enough for engineering work. Interestingly, the weapon the aliens were so afraid of us (humans) discovering was, if I recall correctly, called the Solamite. That name is pretty close to one of the greatest moviess to come out of the late 1960's, early 1970's era: Dolemite. Coincidence? I think not. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 2 09:31:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 2 09:31:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6879 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Feb 2003 09:31:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6875 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2003 09:31:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Feb 2003 09:31:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 103D919A0B; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 19:31:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from wintermute.cse.psu.edu (wintermute.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.5]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B487C19A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 19:30:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from modemcable214.13-130-66.mtl.mc.videotron.ca (modemcable214.13-130-66.mtl.mc.videotron.ca [66.130.13.214]) by wintermute.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server (Backup MX)) with SMTP id 61C0973C99 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 19:30:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from vixensplace.com (2765 [241.180.109.137]) by maylec.fsnet.co.uk (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id 18405 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 18:20:21 -0600 Received: from satx.rr.com ([160.217.156.63]) by drix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id 17458 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 18:20:16 -0600 Message-ID: <295377363 From: "Aila" To: " MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_3DDF7941.11645A44" Subject: [9fans] Free Pic of Christina Aguilera Tits inside. 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<9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 21:31:24 -0500 (EST) Received: by xmxpita.excite.com (Postfix, from userid 110) id A06773D01; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 21:31:21 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from [63.210.211.155] by xprdmailfe4.nwk.excite.com via HTTP; Sat, 01 Feb 2003 21:31:21 EST X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: ID = 5f67a2032bc47829e1b7fb9e5c4e0018 From: "Joel Salomon" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: joelcsalomon@excite.com X-Mailer: PHP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Message-Id: <20030202023121.A06773D01@xmxpita.excite.com> Subject: [9fans] X - problems Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: joelcsalomon@excite.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 21:31:21 -0500 (EST) The following is a transcript of my attempt to install X % mount /srv/9660 /n/dist /path/to/X11.iso % /n/dist/X11.setup # note no output % cd /n/dist % cat X11.db % cat X11.log # again, no output so let's try it the hard way... % cpdir -mgu sys /sys % cpdir -mgu 386 /386 % mv /386/bin/ape/psh /386/bin/ape/psh.old # backup % cp ape_psh /386/bin/ape/psh % cd /sys/src/X11 % ape/psh # now just following the instructions.. $ make making all in ./config... making all in config/cf... making all in config/imake... Make: Don't know how to make ../../X11/Xosdefs.h. Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 $ I hope this helps someone figure out the problem. Big, kludgey, ugly X11 on small, neat, elegant Plan 9 is too much fun to pass up ;-) --Joel _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 2 15:26:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 2 15:26:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11745 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Feb 2003 15:26:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11741 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2003 15:26:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Feb 2003 15:26:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 49C4119A0C; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 01:26:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.144]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 08D5119A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 01:25:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.142]) by mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20030202062534.JEDH1191.mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 19:25:34 +1300 Received: from [203.96.103.217] by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20030202062533.ZPEO14876.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[203.96.103.217]> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 19:25:33 +1300 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Subject: Re: [9fans] got a new feature: learning of resources and switching among them From: "Andrew Simmons" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20030202062533.ZPEO14876.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[203.96.103.217]> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 19:23:29 +1300 >> it richly deserves the title of the "Worst Film Ever Made" >You have to see every movie ever made before you can bestow that title No you don't. You just have to watch "The Garden of the Finzi-Continis" once. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 2 15:35:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 2 15:35:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11879 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Feb 2003 15:35:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11875 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2003 15:35:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Feb 2003 15:35:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 08F8319A17; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 01:35:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.144]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BDFEC19A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 01:34:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.143]) by mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20030202063433.JKOW1191.mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 19:34:33 +1300 Received: from [203.96.103.217] by mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20030202063433.WTQA18554.mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz@[203.96.103.217]> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 19:34:33 +1300 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Subject: Re: [9fans] got a new feature: learning of resources and switching among them From: "Andrew Simmons" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20030202063433.WTQA18554.mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz@[203.96.103.217]> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 19:32:28 +1300 > Amazingly enough, programming in the Microsoft world for the last month > or so gives me an odd feeling of deja vu. Could you expand on this? Is there perhaps a movie called "Abort, retry, fail, from Redmond" that I should see? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 2 23:35:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 2 23:35:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19813 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Feb 2003 23:35:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19809 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2003 23:35:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Feb 2003 23:35:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 030AF19A0D; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 09:35:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BA23B19A17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 09:34:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from savan ([62.252.180.31]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20030202143436.MFFY4529.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@savan> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 14:34:36 +0000 Message-ID: <002201c2cac7$adc4e560$1fb4fc3e@swlocal> From: "Steve Simon" To: "9fans" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] X - problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 14:30:47 -0000 Oops, my fault entirely. I still don't properly understand the X build process - I just learnt enough to get it to work. It looks like I deleted too much when I packaged it up. You will need to "re target" the system in order to get it to rebuild everything. This is easy but can take a long time (~2 hours of compilations). Ensure that /bin/X11 is either in your path of bound over /bin. ape_psh in the root of the distribution will do this. Check it contains at least cpp, and preferrably imake and makedepend also. type ; makew wait when that finishes type ; make install There is a document that gives a bit more info in X11/README.PLAN9 That should do it - Any other problems, contact me. -Steve From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 3 02:55:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 3 02:55:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21563 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Feb 2003 02:55:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21559 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2003 02:55:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Feb 2003 02:55:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9E92219A19; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 12:55:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BC54A19A0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 12:54:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h12Ht1t09085 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 12:55:01 -0500 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Ken's cw fs Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 12:55:01 -0500 (EST) Regarding the cache, was there any specific reason we ended up with ten buckets per block? This puts the number of Centry per bucket at 204 using 16K RBUFSIZE. Using a 4K RBUFSIZE, what performance (dis)?advantages are there in selecting the BKPERBLK scalar? Presumably we want to maximize CEPERBK? Cheers, Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 3 03:46:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 3 03:46:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22003 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Feb 2003 03:46:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21999 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2003 03:46:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Feb 2003 03:46:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8794C19992; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 13:46:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4616619A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 13:45:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h12Ik4t09141 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 13:46:04 -0500 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Ken's cw fs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 13:46:04 -0500 (EST) > are there in selecting the BKPERBLK scalar? Presumably > we want to maximize CEPERBK? s/\?$/while minimizing the amount of time spent resequencing the ages?/ Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 3 04:15:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 3 04:15:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22289 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Feb 2003 04:15:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22284 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2003 04:15:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Feb 2003 04:15:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D22A819A0B; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 14:15:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 23F6719A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 14:14:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: X-Plan9-Fortune: He who runs from the stinging ants may stumble upon angry hornets. From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Ken's cw fs In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 14:14:25 -0500 Look at page 9 of http://plan9.bell-labs.com/~seanq/cw.pdf Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 3 17:45:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 3 17:45:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10217 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Feb 2003 17:45:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10213 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2003 17:45:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Feb 2003 17:45:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B99E0199BC; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 03:45:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6EAC019992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 03:44:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <7d5b057810fad590258a8a8daa7023f6@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] got a new feature: learning of resources and switching among them From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <20030201174037.16467.qmail@mail.dirac.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:43:55 +0100 > Are redirfs, badsrv, intended to do the same thing as "Plan B"? After using Plan B and getting convinced that I wanted most of it to be happy, I got back to my Plan A which was just to use Plan 9. Yes, we make lots of plans here. both programs give you - lack of binding or connections to files. You keep them open, but that only goes down to redirfs. From there on, the file could be reopen. (Unless you ask for it, files open in write mode are not redirected, to avoid surprises). - some adaptation to changes in your environment. Your programs can start using different devices when they show up, depending on your preferences (as said in the configuration file). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 3 17:52:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 3 17:52:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10414 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Feb 2003 17:52:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10410 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2003 17:52:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Feb 2003 17:52:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AB202199BF; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 03:52:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A3174199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 03:51:46 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 24952 invoked by uid 991); 3 Feb 2003 08:51:46 -0000 Message-ID: <20030203085146.24951.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] got a new feature: learning of resources and switching among them In-Reply-To: Message from Fco.J.Ballesteros of "Mon, 03 Feb 2003 09:43:55 +0100." <7d5b057810fad590258a8a8daa7023f6@plan9.escet.urjc.es> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 03:51:46 -0500 On a related topic, it sounds like if you combined this with Ken Birman's old Isis stuff (which implemented causal group multicast) we could have build highly available 9p services. (I guess that sort of thing was more popular in the days when NFS servers crashed frequently.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 3 17:59:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 3 17:59:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10586 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Feb 2003 17:59:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10582 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2003 17:59:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Feb 2003 17:59:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2EE74199DD; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 03:59:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0E7FA1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 03:58:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] got a new feature: learning of resources and switching among them From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <20030203085146.24951.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:58:45 +0100 > On a related topic, it sounds like if you combined this with Ken Birman's > old Isis stuff (which implemented causal group multicast) we could have > build highly available 9p services. (I guess that sort of thing was > more popular in the days when NFS servers crashed frequently.) I think that'd be an overkill. Replica works fine for me (although I'd like to add a new replica program to propagate changes as they're made). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 3 22:05:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 3 22:05:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15688 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Feb 2003 22:05:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15684 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2003 22:05:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Feb 2003 22:05:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3FD35199BE; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 08:05:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from civil.iust.ac.ir (unknown [194.165.8.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A3EA619991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 08:04:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from civil ([194.165.8.142]) by civil.iust.ac.ir ([127.0.0.1]) with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v6.0.7.R) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 03 Feb 2003 09:18:02 +0330 From: "Newsletter" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-MDRemoteIP: 194.165.8.142 X-Return-Path: news@tradetask.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: <20030203130402.A3EA619991@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] (None) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: news@tradetask.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:18:01 +0330 Dear Reader We offer 100% free ebook each week without any signing up. For the free ebook of this week please visit http://www.tradetask.com/febook.cfm Best regards, If you want to unsubscribe from our mail list reply this mail with REMOVE in subject line. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 3 22:47:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 3 22:47:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16295 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Feb 2003 22:47:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16291 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2003 22:47:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Feb 2003 22:47:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4F601199DD; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 08:47:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from netscape.com (r2d2.aoltw.net [64.236.137.26]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 721A819992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 08:46:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from yoda.mcom.com (yoda.ie.office.aol.com [10.128.72.204]) by netscape.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id h13Dkjj22500 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 05:46:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from will551 ([10.128.74.77]) by yoda.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id H9QJLU00.HI8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 13:46:42 +0000 Message-ID: <098301c2cb8a$a30bf370$4d4a800a@will551> From: "Conor Williams" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030203130402.A3EA619991@mail.cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Subject: [9fans] S3 graphics card prob Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 13:46:21 -0000 hi I have an S3 801/805 card with which 8 1/2 worked with the 9pcflop kernel. I created a 9pcdisk kernel and included the s3 line with the +cur part in the mkfile and loaded up a diskless terminal which has a plan9.ini that includes the monitor, mouse and vgasize lines. I get a prompt to my fs server - but get a error about "no frame buffer" when it tries to load 8 1/2... How can I get 8 1/2 loaded? I also do a bind -a '#'i in my termrc thanks will551 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 3 23:03:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 3 23:03:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16463 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Feb 2003 23:03:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16459 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2003 23:03:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Feb 2003 23:03:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 97B6419992; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:03:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (closedmind.org [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A4D0119992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:02:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8466144f43ada1036c627b7c635dae76@plan9.bell-labs.com> X-Plan9-Fortune: Millenium parties/with loud music, lights and joy;/then, how cold! From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] S3 graphics card prob In-Reply-To: <098301c2cb8a$a30bf370$4d4a800a@will551> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:02:24 -0500 Try running vga by hand: aux/vga -m $monitor -l $vgasize aux/mouse $mouseport and see if that gets you into graphics mode. If so, you can dig through termrc to see why it's not starting. I'm confused about what you did. You said you built a pcdisk kernel, but the pcdisk kernels already have s3 support by default. If you actually built a cpu server kernel, then you need to copy the vga initialization code from /rc/bin/termrc into /rc/bin/cpurc, since cpu servers boot using the latter script. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 3 23:24:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 3 23:24:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16638 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Feb 2003 23:24:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16634 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2003 23:24:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Feb 2003 23:24:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2047D199EE; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:24:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from netscape.com (r2d2.aoltw.net [64.236.137.26]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6165519992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:23:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from yoda.mcom.com (yoda.ie.office.aol.com [10.128.72.204]) by netscape.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id h13EN8j24388 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 06:23:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from will551 ([10.128.74.77]) by yoda.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id H9QLA700.UIU for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 14:22:55 +0000 Message-ID: <09a001c2cb8f$b215cc10$4d4a800a@will551> From: "Conor Williams" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <8466144f43ada1036c627b7c635dae76@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] S3 graphics card prob MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 14:22:34 -0000 tx Russ will try that 2nite I had to modify the mkfile for the pcdisk cause I ran out of swap space when compiling... so what I _should_ have said is that I took out all graphics support except the s3 line... and i have that kernel on a floppy which links into my servers... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Cox" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 2:02 PM Subject: Re: [9fans] S3 graphics card prob > Try running vga by hand: > > aux/vga -m $monitor -l $vgasize > aux/mouse $mouseport > > and see if that gets you into graphics mode. > If so, you can dig through termrc to see > why it's not starting. > > I'm confused about what you did. You said you > built a pcdisk kernel, but the pcdisk kernels > already have s3 support by default. If you > actually built a cpu server kernel, then you > need to copy the vga initialization code from > /rc/bin/termrc into /rc/bin/cpurc, since cpu servers > boot using the latter script. > > Russ > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 3 23:51:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 3 23:51:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17194 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Feb 2003 23:51:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17190 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2003 23:51:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Feb 2003 23:51:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C6F01199DD; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:51:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 53D0419981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:50:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] broken vac From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 14:53:03 0000 axel: > I tried: cmp /proc/number/text /bin/vac > which did not report differences; is that what I need, > or will the text file point to the new binary if I update > the binary on the system? russ: > The cmp is fine. You have the latest vac. > Something else is wrong. actually, i'm not sure that's right. the text file just points to the file on the filesystem, so unless that's been removed/renamed in the meantime (safeinstall?) the cmp is unlikely to tell you much. looking in the dump might be more informative. cheers, rog. % cat tst.c #include #include void main(void) { sleep(2000000); } % 8c tst.c && 8l tst.8 % 8.out & % echo $apid 600 % md5sum /proc/600/text 416079107feb6f50ad2204838f6a49c2 /proc/600/text % ed tst.c ,s/2000/1000/p sleep(1000000); w 70 q % % 8c tst.c && 8l tst.8 % md5sum /proc/600/text 15d26908dcf5ee6a2919a255cd1f2a02 /proc/600/text % md5sum 8.out 15d26908dcf5ee6a2919a255cd1f2a02 8.out % From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 3 23:53:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 3 23:53:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17254 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Feb 2003 23:53:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17249 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2003 23:53:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Feb 2003 23:53:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 676EA19A04; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:53:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (closedmind.org [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 888D6199ED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:52:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Feb 3 09:52:56 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.234.88 ([141.154.234.88]) by plan9; Mon Feb 3 09:52:54 EST 2003 Message-ID: X-Plan9-Fortune: If you believe everything you read better not read. To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] broken vac From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:53:00 -0500 did you do a pull while you were running that vac? if so, it may have broken just because the text file changed underneath it and it got confused when it paged in a new section. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 4 00:37:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 4 00:37:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17758 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Feb 2003 00:37:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17754 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2003 00:37:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Feb 2003 00:37:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 312D5199DD; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:37:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 12FD219992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:36:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h13FaqGo017927 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:36:52 +0100 (MET) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h13Fan7U029655 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:36:50 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id h13FanR19682 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:36:49 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200302031536.h13FanR19682@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with version: MH 6.8.3 #20[UCI] To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] broken vac In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 03 Feb 2003 09:53:00 -0500." References: From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 16:36:49 +0100 I am almost certain I did not. I'll see if I can try to reproduce it, some time later. I'm hesitant to try now since I still have a vac running at the moment. If I can reproduce I'll let you know. FYI, possibly related: is similar code in replica/applychanges (or similar name)? Some weeks ago I tried to replica/pull to a pcmcia disk in a bitsy, and the arm replica/applychanges broke. I did not want to spend much time on it so I just exported the kfs from the bitsy to a pc and did the replica/pull on the pc (which worked fine). However, at the time I did have a quick look with acid on the broken proces, and at least the function names seemed similar. Axel. > did you do a pull while you were running that vac? > if so, it may have broken just because the text file > changed underneath it and it got confused when it > paged in a new section. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 4 00:51:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 4 00:51:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17955 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Feb 2003 00:51:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17951 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2003 00:51:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Feb 2003 00:51:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 189C419A04; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:51:18 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (closedmind.org [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9E88419A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:50:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Feb 3 10:50:58 EST 2003 Received: from 18.24.6.142 ([18.24.6.142]) by plan9; Mon Feb 3 10:50:55 EST 2003 Message-ID: X-Plan9-Fortune: That which does not kill me makes me stronger. To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] broken vac From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <200302031536.h13FanR19682@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:50:59 -0500 > FYI, possibly related: > is similar code in replica/applychanges (or similar name)? it's not a property of the program. it's a property of demand-paged executable loading in the kernel. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 4 02:19:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 4 02:19:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18712 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Feb 2003 02:19:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18708 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2003 02:19:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Feb 2003 02:19:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E2208199E4; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 12:19:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DF7C419991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 12:18:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4e2716f33a9d97d128adc2113f2d7624@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] broken vac From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <200302031536.h13FanR19682@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-dkjxaijbcrizkgrnmjgzivercs" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:17:45 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-dkjxaijbcrizkgrnmjgzivercs Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit last time I checked, replica was taking care of running a binary relocated to /tmp just to avoid the binary getting changed under feet. --upas-dkjxaijbcrizkgrnmjgzivercs Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Mon Feb 3 16:37:22 MET 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 312D5199DD; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:37:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 12FD219992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:36:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h13FaqGo017927 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:36:52 +0100 (MET) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h13Fan7U029655 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:36:50 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id h13FanR19682 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:36:49 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200302031536.h13FanR19682@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with version: MH 6.8.3 #20[UCI] To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] broken vac In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 03 Feb 2003 09:53:00 -0500." References: From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 16:36:49 +0100 I am almost certain I did not. I'll see if I can try to reproduce it, some time later. I'm hesitant to try now since I still have a vac running at the moment. If I can reproduce I'll let you know. FYI, possibly related: is similar code in replica/applychanges (or similar name)? Some weeks ago I tried to replica/pull to a pcmcia disk in a bitsy, and the arm replica/applychanges broke. I did not want to spend much time on it so I just exported the kfs from the bitsy to a pc and did the replica/pull on the pc (which worked fine). However, at the time I did have a quick look with acid on the broken proces, and at least the function names seemed similar. Axel. > did you do a pull while you were running that vac? > if so, it may have broken just because the text file > changed underneath it and it got confused when it > paged in a new section. --upas-dkjxaijbcrizkgrnmjgzivercs-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 4 03:33:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 4 03:33:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19399 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Feb 2003 03:33:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19395 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2003 03:33:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Feb 2003 03:33:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A64B319981; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 13:33:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8E543199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 13:32:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h13IWct11223 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 13:32:38 -0500 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] namepad Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 13:32:38 -0500 (EST) What was the original intention of the namepad field in the Cw struct? /sys/src/fs/dev/cw.c:1342 is the only line that references it with the comment, `force room.' Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 4 03:55:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 4 03:55:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19597 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Feb 2003 03:55:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19593 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2003 03:55:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Feb 2003 03:55:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1D96C19A19; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 13:55:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 69259199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 13:54:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [9fans] namepad From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 13:53:58 -0500 >What was the original intention of the namepad >field in the Cw struct? > >/sys/src/fs/dev/cw.c:1342 is the only line that >references it with the comment, `force room.' Looks to me a way ken assures that he can always append a / on the end of the name field without thinking too hard about it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 4 04:02:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 4 04:02:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19706 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Feb 2003 04:02:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19702 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2003 04:02:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Feb 2003 04:02:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 96C9519A0D; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 14:02:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1863B19A10 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 14:01:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h13J1tt11306 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 14:01:55 -0500 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] namepad In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 14:01:55 -0500 (EST) ooooh, i see. clever bugger. On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, David Presotto wrote: > >What was the original intention of the namepad > >field in the Cw struct? > > > >/sys/src/fs/dev/cw.c:1342 is the only line that > >references it with the comment, `force room.' > > Looks to me a way ken assures that he can always > append a / on the end of the name field > without thinking too hard about it. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 4 05:10:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 4 05:10:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20455 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Feb 2003 05:10:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20451 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2003 05:10:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Feb 2003 05:10:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 13E05199DD; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:10:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4F9EB199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:09:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h13K9Rt11453 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:09:28 -0500 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Snarf an Edit? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:09:27 -0500 (EST) How might one snarf an edit result in acme? As a simple example, let's say I have a very long function which I would like to print out for scroll-less examination. I currently set my pointer to the beginning of the function return type, Edit .,/^}/ and then click Snarf. Acme snarfs the edit line, presumably because it's the last manually highlighted region. Cheers, Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 4 05:24:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 4 05:24:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20583 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Feb 2003 05:24:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20579 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2003 05:24:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Feb 2003 05:24:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1251419A00; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:24:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5369A19A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:23:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Feb 3 15:23:13 EST 2003 Received: from 18.24.6.142 ([18.24.6.142]) by plan9; Mon Feb 3 15:23:11 EST 2003 Message-ID: <1a6527f726a5c5290a0e035e728df598@plan9.bell-labs.com> X-Plan9-Fortune: Reverting to old tty driver... To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Snarf an Edit? From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:23:11 -0500 I don't think there's a command to set the snarf buffer. Edit .,/^}/>cat>/dev/snarf ? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 4 12:49:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 4 12:49:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30538 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Feb 2003 12:49:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30530 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2003 12:49:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Feb 2003 12:49:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E785D19981; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 22:49:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from myself.com (unknown [200.171.74.208]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 342E4199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 22:48:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000210b2de78$aac23661$71730401@mmllcdovylrkva.x> From: "India Demoura" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00D8_06C34D7C.D3338C33" X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Subject: [9fans] it was a good poker game 1271CuqF2-761Hxwz8576-20 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 15:47:56 +1200 ------=_NextPart_000_00D8_06C34D7C.D3338C33 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 TGl2ZSBBY3Rpb24gUG9rZXIgd2l0aCBSZWFsIFBsYXllcnMgYW5kIFJlYWwg TW9uZXkNCg0KU3RvcCBwbGF5aW5nIHBva2VyIHdpdGggYSBkdW1iIGNvbXB1 dGVyLiAgWW91IGNhbiBub3cgcGxheSB3aXRoIHJlYWwgcGVvcGxlDQphcm91 bmQgdGhlIHdvcmxkLCAyNCBob3VycyBhIGRheSB3aXRoIG91ciBvbmxpbmUg bXVsdGlwbGF5ZXIgcG9rZXIgd2Vic2l0ZS4NCldhZ2VyIGZvciByZWFsIGNh c2ggb3IganVzdCBmb3IgZnVuLCBvdXIgcG9rZXIgcm9vbXMgYXJlIGFsd2F5 cyBvcGVuIGFuZA0KZnVsbCBvZiBmdW4uICBXZSBhcmUgb25lIG9mIHRoZSBt b3N0IHBvcHVsYXIgcG9rZXIgc2l0ZXMgaW4gdGhlIHdvcmxkLA0Kc2Vydmlu ZyB1cCBvdmVyIDggbWlsbGlvbiBoYW5kcyB0byBkYXRlLiAgWW91IGNhbiBw bGF5IHdpdGggOSBvdGhlciBwbGF5ZXJzDQphdCBvbmNlLiAgSWYgeW91IHBy ZWZlciB0byBwbGF5IHdpdGggZnJpZW5kcywgaW52aXRlIHRoZW0gdG8geW91 ciB0YWJsZS4NCkFueW9uZSBmcm9tIGFueXdoZXJlIGNhbiBqb2luIHlvdXIg dGFibGUgYW5kIHlvdSBjYW4gcGxheSBlYWNoIG90aGVyIGxpdmUuDQoNCklm IHlvdSBsaWtlIHBva2VyLCB0aGlzIGlzIGEgcGxheWluZyBleHBlcmllbmNl IHlvdSBjYW5ub3QgbWlzcy4gIEdvIHRvDQpodHRwOi8vd3d3LmludGVyYWN0 aXZlcG9rZXIubmV0Lw0KDQpOb3RlOiBUaGlzIG9mZmVyIGlzIHZvaWQgd2hl cmUgcHJvaGliaXRlZCBieSBsYXcNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQpUbyBzdG9wIHJlY2Vp dmluZyB0aGlzIGVtYWlsLCBjbGljazoNCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cuZW1haWxyZW1v dmFscy5jb20vY2dpLWJpbi9wb2tlci1yZW1vdmUuY2dpDQoNCg0KDQpINDU0 NDdKam94NS00NjZlbUhqNjc2N3dCc3kwLTU5N2toclg1NzZsMzUNCjQ0NjVW Z09ZMS0xNTdFTlFjMzM0N0FIckk5LTQ2MUxXelU1ODkzenlFWjAtMTY0cmFt ejUwNDlNQ1BRMi04MDZLRkZZNTY4M1dHakw1LTMzN2w3Ng== ------=_NextPart_000_00D8_06C34D7C.D3338C33-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 4 18:08:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 4 18:08:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8642 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Feb 2003 18:08:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8638 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2003 18:08:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Feb 2003 18:08:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1FA8E19A27; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 04:08:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from netscape.com (r2d2.aoltw.net [64.236.137.26]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5468F19A19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 04:07:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from yoda.mcom.com (yoda.ie.office.aol.com [10.128.72.204]) by netscape.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id h1497Mj07525 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 01:07:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from will551 ([10.128.74.77]) by yoda.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id H9S1BY00.R0A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 09:07:10 +0000 Message-ID: <0a7801c2cc2c$c4f96060$4d4a800a@will551> From: "Conor Williams" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <8466144f43ada1036c627b7c635dae76@plan9.bell-labs.com> <09a001c2cb8f$b215cc10$4d4a800a@will551> Subject: Re: [9fans] S3 graphics card prob MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 09:06:57 -0000 tried that but the vga part hangs my 486 - put the s3 card into a pentium and it worked - thats fine for now! Im now have a problem running the cpu -h command on my text based diskless terminal. I'm getting the error: cat: cant open /mnt/term/env/wsys: does not exist. this gets fixed when 8 1/2 starts - is there a way around this so I can run cpu -h without 8 1/2 tx will551 > tx Russ will try that 2nite > > I had to modify the mkfile for the pcdisk cause > I ran out of swap space when compiling... > so what I _should_ have said is that I took out > all graphics support except the s3 line... > and i have that kernel on a floppy which links into > my servers... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Russ Cox" > To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> > Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 2:02 PM > Subject: Re: [9fans] S3 graphics card prob > > > > Try running vga by hand: > > > > aux/vga -m $monitor -l $vgasize > > aux/mouse $mouseport > > > > and see if that gets you into graphics mode. > > If so, you can dig through termrc to see > > why it's not starting. > > > > I'm confused about what you did. You said you > > built a pcdisk kernel, but the pcdisk kernels > > already have s3 support by default. If you > > actually built a cpu server kernel, then you > > need to copy the vga initialization code from > > /rc/bin/termrc into /rc/bin/cpurc, since cpu servers > > boot using the latter script. > > > > Russ > > > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 4 18:51:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 4 18:51:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9602 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Feb 2003 18:51:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9598 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2003 18:51:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Feb 2003 18:51:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F3C5E19A28; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 04:51:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (mta07-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.47]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 03C8D19981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 04:50:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from savan ([62.252.188.202]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20030204095012.BXQB3191.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@savan> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 09:50:12 +0000 Message-ID: <003101c2cc32$448d3090$cabcfc3e@swlocal> From: "Steve Simon" To: "9fans" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [9fans] diskless boot of one terminal off kfs machine Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 09:46:17 -0000 Hi, I'am still struggling trying to get a (hard) disk-less terminal to boot from a kfs standalone machine. The kfs machine is savan and the diskless one is larch. I have connected the two machines together via a crossover 10baseT cable point to point. I use savan (a laptop) all the time and the 3c589 works faultlessly. I have hit several IRQ miseries on larch but I have got a combination that works. If I boot the install floppy on my diskless machine and do an explicit ip/ipconfig I can ping the larchbox from savan. I have added the MAC address to /lib/ndb/local on savan so DHCP can work. I renamed the services in /rc/bin/service/_* to remove the _s On savan then I run: aux/lisen il aux/listen tcp ip/dhcpd -d I use the attached plan9.ini to boot larch into the 9pc.gz kernel. it complains about not being able to find local/bzroot but continues - it sees the ethernet card OK. It prompts me for "root is from" th the bootargs (as expected) I accept this. Then I give my user name (same as on savan) and larch hangs. After a few minuites it panics having given up trying to attach to the fileserer. netstat shows no open connections, the debug flag on dhcpd has caused no output ether What have i missed? Also is it possible to boot from 9load rather than from 9pc.gz - this would mean keeping less state on larch's boot floppy. -Steve From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 4 19:05:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 4 19:05:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9795 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Feb 2003 19:05:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9791 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2003 19:05:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Feb 2003 19:05:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CDBE119A26; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 05:05:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from netscape.com (c3po.aoltw.net [64.236.137.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9BE3719A2A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 05:04:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from yoda.mcom.com (yoda.ie.office.aol.com [10.128.72.204]) by netscape.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id h14A4e525988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 02:04:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from will551 ([10.128.74.77]) by yoda.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id H9S3ZP00.10O for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 10:04:37 +0000 Message-ID: <0ca201c2cc34$c69870c0$4d4a800a@will551> From: "Conor Williams" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <003101c2cc32$448d3090$cabcfc3e@swlocal> Subject: Re: [9fans] diskless boot of one terminal off kfs machine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 10:04:15 -0000 Steve I compiled the 9pcdisk kernel for the diskless term not the 9pc kernel - and loaded it onto my floppy. my plan9.ini was something like: ether0=type=ne2000 irq=15 auth=10.5.1.18 fs=10.5.1.19 bootargs=il -g 10.5.1.15 /net/ether0 10.5.1.20 255.255.255.0 the all the standard stuff... dont used the dhcp or dns stuff yet till u get the above working also on my auth server make sure that port 17008 is listening l8r will551 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Simon" To: "9fans" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 9:46 AM Subject: [9fans] diskless boot of one terminal off kfs machine > Hi, > > I'am still struggling trying to get a (hard) disk-less terminal to boot > from a kfs standalone machine. > > The kfs machine is savan and the diskless one is larch. > > I have connected the two machines together via a crossover 10baseT cable > point to point. > > I use savan (a laptop) all the time and the 3c589 works faultlessly. > > I have hit several IRQ miseries on larch but I have got a combination that > works. > If I boot the install floppy on my diskless machine and do an explicit > ip/ipconfig I can ping the larchbox from savan. > > I have added the MAC address to /lib/ndb/local on savan so DHCP can work. > I renamed the services in /rc/bin/service/_* to remove the _s > > On savan then I run: > aux/lisen il > aux/listen tcp > ip/dhcpd -d > > I use the attached plan9.ini to boot larch into the 9pc.gz kernel. > > it complains about not being able to find local/bzroot but continues - it > sees the > ethernet card OK. It prompts me for "root is from" th the bootargs (as > expected) > I accept this. Then I give my user name (same as on savan) and larch hangs. > > After a few minuites it panics having given up trying to attach to the > fileserer. > > netstat shows no open connections, the debug flag on dhcpd has caused no > output ether > > What have i missed? > > Also is it possible to boot from 9load rather than from 9pc.gz - this would > mean keeping > less state on larch's boot floppy. > > -Steve > > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 4 22:30:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 4 22:30:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12816 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Feb 2003 22:30:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12812 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2003 22:30:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Feb 2003 22:30:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AD887199BC; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 08:30:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from hcctel.net (unknown [61.188.245.73]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A0660199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 08:29:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000411b6bb22$bbd24158$50453275@hwjjhae.cyc> From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00E4_81C12C4D.E7807D52" X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal Subject: [9fans] )Be Refinance free... Free online quote 38-2 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 22:55:17 +0200 ------=_NextPart_000_00E4_81C12C4D.E7807D52 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 KQ0KDQpIZWZvDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCjxodG1sPjxoZWFkPjx0aXRsZT46 Ok06OjwvdGl0bGU+PC9oZWFkPjxib2R5PjxjZW50ZXI+PGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0 cDovLzIxMS4xNTcuMTAwLjEwNy9tb3J0Z2FnZS9MZWFkMjM2L2luZGV4Lmh0 bSI+PGltZyBib3JkZXI9IjAiIHNyYz0iaHR0cDovLzIxMS4xNTcuMTAwLjEw Ny9tb3J0Z2FnZS9wMlguYm1wIiB3aWR0aD0iNDI3IiBoZWlnaHQ9IjI1MiI+ DQo8L2E+DQo8L2NlbnRlcj4NCjwvYm9keT48L2h0bWw+DQoNCg0KDQoNCg0K DQoNCnQ2N2VkSjdUDQo0ODkwc3B4WTEtOTY5SWRLbjY3MTVQU0tLNC0yOTNl clRINDc4NnFCaFY0LTg3N1plZWg3MTE1QUhybTAtMmw1OA== ------=_NextPart_000_00E4_81C12C4D.E7807D52-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 4 23:21:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 4 23:21:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13545 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Feb 2003 23:21:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13541 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2003 23:21:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Feb 2003 23:21:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2CC8A199B3; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 09:21:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (closedmind.org [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ED5C619991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 09:20:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: steve.simon@ntlworld.com, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] diskless boot of one terminal off kfs machine In-Reply-To: <003101c2cc32$448d3090$cabcfc3e@swlocal> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 09:20:07 -0500 It sounds like you're booting a kernel but not finding the file server (or auth server). Bootp/dhcp (or your plan9.ini) must be telling you a file server since you're not being prompted for one. 1) does 'netstat -n' on savan show anything listening on 17008? If not, the kfs there isn't listening for network calls. It doesn't do it by default, you have to ask it to. Do 'disk/kfscmd listen' and then do a 'netstat -n'. man kfscmd 2) are you pointing to the right file server? What does the /lib/ndb entry look like for larch? 3) are you running an auth server on savan? Also to get the savan to be a boot server, you need to run 'ip/tftpd' in addition to the ip/dhcpd. If you still have problems, send me copies of the /lib/ndb files, savan's /bin/termrc, the plan9.ini on larch, and the output of a 'netstat -n'. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 5 02:27:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 5 02:27:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16480 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Feb 2003 02:27:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16476 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2003 02:27:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Feb 2003 02:27:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CF29F199B9; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 12:27:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (huygens.org [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E068219981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 12:26:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: X-Plan9-Fortune: The do one thing well philosophy underlying UNIX is best realized in a fully object-oriented environment. - some Linux guy From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] diskless boot of one terminal off kfs machine In-Reply-To: <003101c2cc32$448d3090$cabcfc3e@swlocal> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 12:26:23 -0500 You didn't attach a plan9.ini, so it's hard to tell exactly, but it sounds like either you still have some old pieces of the install plan9.ini or you're booting an install kernel rather than 9pc.gz. Look in plan9.ini and remove any references to local!/bzroot. If there are still messages about local!/bzroot, you're booting the wrong kernel. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 5 05:05:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 5 05:05:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17964 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Feb 2003 05:05:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17960 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2003 05:05:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Feb 2003 05:05:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 961C519991; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 15:05:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.171]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D3C781998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 15:04:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from [212.227.126.202] (helo=mrvnet.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18g9Ia-0002j3-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 04 Feb 2003 21:04:04 +0100 Received: from [172.23.4.139] (helo=config12.kundenserver.de) by mrvnet.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18g9Ia-0005C2-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 04 Feb 2003 21:04:04 +0100 Received: from www-data by config12.kundenserver.de with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18g9Ia-0000VD-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 04 Feb 2003 21:04:04 +0100 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: martin@familie-kielhorn.de Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-From: 27261870 Received: from 80.136.101.60 by webmail.1und1.com via HTTP X-Binford: 6100 (more power) Message-Id: Subject: [9fans] Webbrowser Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 21:04:04 +0100 Hi, in Linux I do use links (http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~clock/twibright/links/) as my standard browser. It does not seem to depend on huge libraries as the mozilla rendering engine, or kde but it does display images, tables and has some enough javascript support (for mie). Would it be usefull to port it to Plan 9? I cannot estimate the time this would take. Occasionally I use the browser "i" which was available with "9fs sources", but it crashes after 2 or 3 pages. What would deserve more support -- the developement of "i" until it does not crash anymore or the port of "links". I do not think that I am experienced enough to begin that. The only thing I programmed in Plan 9 so far is a very small vector drawing program. I will try to approximate lines, that I drew with a mouse (or with a tablet in vmware). In the future I will find some way to represent those with bezier curver, b-spline or NURBS -- it should be as "sodipodi" but more usable and much more portable. I consider this project as solvable -- a whole web browser will probably be much more complicated, probably I will never manage to write my own portable web browser. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 5 06:02:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 5 06:02:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18433 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Feb 2003 06:02:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18429 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2003 06:02:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Feb 2003 06:02:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C59A5199BC; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 16:02:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1AF941998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 16:01:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14L1VAr024399 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 14:01:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca) Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with ESMTP id h14L1UkJ024396 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 14:01:31 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Webbrowser In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030204140101.U21311@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 14:01:30 -0700 (MST) On Tue, 4 Feb 2003 martin@familie-kielhorn.de wrote: > Would it be usefull to port it to Plan 9? plan 9 does not have cursor addressing... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 5 06:07:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 5 06:07:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18454 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Feb 2003 06:07:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18450 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2003 06:07:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Feb 2003 06:07:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0C380199BE; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 16:07:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 771211998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 16:06:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h14L6cBD026656 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 13:06:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Webbrowser From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 13:17:37 -0800 > Occasionally I use the browser "i" which was available with "9fs > sources", but > it crashes after 2 or 3 pages. > What would deserve more support -- the developement of "i" until it does > not crash anymore or the port of "links". > I do not think that I am experienced enough to begin that. This is a sort of Holy Grail quest for 9fans, with no good answers. The best solutions for now are to either use Charon (with Inferno) and/or run a browser on a non-Plan9 machine and VNC to it. Might want to search comp.os.plan9 archives on this subject. Ideally there would be an HTML rendering application that webfs could plumb to and a driver application for webfs to receive plumb messages that have a URL format. > > The only thing I programmed in Plan 9 so far is a very small vector > drawing program. > I will try to approximate lines, that I drew with a mouse (or with a > tablet in vmware). > In the future I will find some way to represent those with bezier > curver, b-spline or NURBS -- it should be as "sodipodi" but more usable > and much more portable. Check out 'art' on sources (under contrib); Also, when I looked into this before, I came to the conclusion then that porting XCIP to Plan9 might be the fastest way to get this functionality. The output is in pic format, so is useful for documentation. You can find information on xcip and its history at this URL: http://www.bell-labs.com/user/dwd/5620faq.html From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 5 06:21:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 5 06:21:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18576 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Feb 2003 06:21:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18572 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2003 06:21:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Feb 2003 06:21:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 01003199E3; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 16:21:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 32EA019981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 16:20:13 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 8127 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2003 21:20:12 -0000 Received: from roke.cse.psu.edu (HELO bio.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.12.14) by galapagos.cse.psu.edu with SMTP; 4 Feb 2003 21:20:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 14682 invoked by uid 991); 4 Feb 2003 21:20:12 -0000 Message-ID: <20030204212012.14681.qmail@f.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Webbrowser In-Reply-To: Message from "Skip Tavakkolian" of "Tue, 04 Feb 2003 13:17:37 PST." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 16:20:12 -0500 | Check out 'art' on sources (under contrib); Also, when I looked into | this before, I came to the conclusion then that porting XCIP to Plan9 | might be the fastest way to get this functionality. The output is in | pic format, so is useful for documentation. You can find | information on xcip and its history at this URL: | | http://www.bell-labs.com/user/dwd/5620faq.html Frankly, if web browsers interpreted any one of troff macros, ditroff, or dvi (with shell escapes removed), the world would be a better place, because then we could generate nicely typeset and nicely portable documents that could be widely and reliably displayed. So my proposal is this: get someone else to teach mozilla to grok the formats listed above. The killer app is that you can then view good old unix manpages in a modern mode! Then, once millions of Linux users have been won back the the True Path, dozens of Plan 9 users can take advantage of the situation by not having to suffer html any more. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 5 06:50:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 5 06:50:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18748 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Feb 2003 06:50:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18744 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2003 06:50:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Feb 2003 06:50:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D2233199BB; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 16:50:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from edoras.nas.com (edoras.nas.com [206.63.100.8]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A6F181998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 16:49:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from nas.com (unknown [164.116.190.46]) by edoras.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FEE3EB444 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 13:49:52 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3E40357F.40801@nas.com> From: Jack Johnson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.2a) Gecko/20020910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, es MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Webbrowser References: <20030204212012.14681.qmail@f.bio.cse.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 13:49:51 -0800 Scott Schwartz wrote: > documents that could be widely and reliably displayed. So my proposal is > this: get someone else to teach mozilla to grok the formats listed above. Just out of curiosity, would an html->troff converter be easier to implement than a Web browser? If so, then you may be on to something, and least for Plan 9. Recently Googled info on html-to-tex: http://hilbert.math.albany.edu:8800/hm/emj/1996/msg00268.html or harass this guy: http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-docs/1999-08/msg00033.php or cut and paste from this: http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache:qQr6kwiKtAEC:www.zip.com.au/~cs/css/scripts/html2mm (the original is in data heaven, it seems) -Jack From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 5 07:52:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 5 07:52:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19374 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Feb 2003 07:52:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19370 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2003 07:52:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Feb 2003 07:52:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3F44B1999B; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 17:52:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 90E8D19981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 17:51:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from savan ([62.252.176.184]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20030204225131.RWAZ22267.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@savan> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 22:51:31 +0000 Message-ID: <001701c2cc9f$6a28f290$b8b0fc3e@swlocal> From: "Steve Simon" To: "9fans" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] diskless boot of one terminal off kfs machine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 22:47:29 -0000 Thanks to all for your kind help. My problems turned out to be towfold. As I was just using a crossover cable between two ethernet cards the auto media detection on the cards somtimes fails. This is easy to fix, I just added a media=10BaseT clause to the ether0=tyle=xxx lines in plan9.ini on both machines. Seccondly I was using the using aux/listen to start il17031 rather than starting disk/kfscmd listen (Doh !) I started to build a fossil server but gave up in the end. The transfer rate seemed very slow over ethernet (30% utilisation from looking at stats), I haven't investigated. If any of the fossil developers is interested I was using an fs interleaved filesystem accross 3 fairly fast disks and got "disk: io=10021 at 8.779ms" I got about 25 of these in 3 hours of mkfs | mkext before giving up. The times increased slowly about 13ms but the counts stayed at 10010 +- 10. -Steve From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 5 07:52:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 5 07:52:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19381 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Feb 2003 07:52:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19377 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2003 07:52:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Feb 2003 07:52:41 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DA8C0199E4; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 17:52:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 502EB19981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 17:51:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from savan ([62.252.176.184]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20030204225143.RWIS22267.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@savan> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 22:51:43 +0000 Message-ID: <001a01c2cc9f$714f8b60$b8b0fc3e@swlocal> From: "Steve Simon" To: "9fans" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <85769895@snellwilcox.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] diskless boot of one terminal off kfs machine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 22:47:48 -0000 Thanks to all for your kind help. My problems turned out to be towfold. As I was just using a crossover cable between two ethernet cards the auto media detection on the cards somtimes fails. This is easy to fix, I just added a media=10BaseT clause to the ether0=tyle=xxx lines in plan9.ini on both machines. Seccondly I was using the using aux/listen to start il17031 rather than starting disk/kfscmd listen (Doh !) I started to build a fossil server but gave up in the end. The transfer rate seemed very slow over ethernet (30% utilisation from looking at stats), I haven't investigated. If any of the fossil developers is interested I was using an fs interleaved filesystem accross 3 fairly fast disks and got "disk: io=10021 at 8.779ms" I got about 25 of these in 3 hours of mkfs | mkext before giving up. The times increased slowly about 13ms but the counts stayed at 10010 +- 10. -Steve From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 5 08:15:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 5 08:15:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19542 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Feb 2003 08:15:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19538 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2003 08:15:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Feb 2003 08:15:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BF2EF199EC; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 18:15:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (closedmind.org [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5C59D1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 18:14:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Feb 4 18:14:35 EST 2003 Received: from 18.24.6.153 ([18.24.6.153]) by plan9; Tue Feb 4 18:14:32 EST 2003 Message-ID: <15dacd030388beddaa44e7bd3a94c830@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] diskless boot of one terminal off kfs machine From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <001a01c2cc9f$714f8b60$b8b0fc3e@swlocal> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 18:14:37 -0500 > If any of the fossil developers is interested I was using an fs interleaved > filesystem accross 3 fairly fast disks and got "disk: io=10021 at 8.779ms" > I got about 25 of these in 3 hours of mkfs | mkext before giving up. > The times increased slowly about 13ms but the counts stayed at 10010 +- 10. I think those are normal. Do you have DMA turned on? cat /dev/sdC0/ctl and make sure that the dmactl number is not zero. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 5 10:06:51 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 5 10:06:51 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22414 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Feb 2003 10:06:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22407 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2003 10:06:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Feb 2003 10:06:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 389D1199B6; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:06:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from magnum.cooper.edu (magnum.cooper.edu [199.98.16.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4D36C1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:05:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from robin.cooper.edu by magnum.cooper.edu with SMTP id AA09519 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:07:53 -0500 Received: from localhost by robin.cooper.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id UAA21598; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:04:59 -0500 From: Joel Salomon To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Webbrowser Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:04:59 -0500 (EST) andrey mirtchovski (mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca) wrote: > plan 9 does not have cursor addressing... vt(1) --Joel ______________________________________________________ Due to economic circumstances, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 5 10:43:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 5 10:43:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23394 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Feb 2003 10:43:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23390 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2003 10:43:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Feb 2003 10:43:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 140D9199B3; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:43:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 862FF19981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:42:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h151ggAr028527 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 18:42:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca) Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with ESMTP id h151ggP3028524 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 18:42:42 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Webbrowser In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030204184209.V21311@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 18:42:42 -0700 (MST) On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Joel Salomon wrote: > vt(1) > hmm... i'd like to politely disagree... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 5 16:37:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 5 16:37:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1639 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Feb 2003 16:37:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1635 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2003 16:37:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Feb 2003 16:37:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8FDB9199B6; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 02:37:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cnm-vra.com (invisibo.cnm-vra.com [209.76.64.46]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9A2401998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 02:36:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from micah by cnm-vra.com with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 18gK6P-00016F-00; Tue, 04 Feb 2003 23:36:13 -0800 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Webbrowser Message-ID: <20030204233612.A4175@cnm-vra.com> References: <20030204140101.U21311@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20030204140101.U21311@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca>; from mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca on Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 02:01:30PM -0700 From: Micah Stetson Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 23:36:12 -0800 > > Would it be usefull to port it to Plan 9? > > plan 9 does not have cursor addressing... I think he's referring to the graphics mode (links -g). It runs under X and several different graphics systems, so it might be little more than writing another graphics driver for it. Micah From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 5 18:53:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 5 18:53:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4610 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Feb 2003 18:53:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4606 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2003 18:53:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Feb 2003 18:53:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2C3F7199BE; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 04:53:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from usa.com (adsl-65-64-116-156.dsl.kscymo.swbell.net [65.64.116.156]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 7E43C19991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 04:52:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from 94.36.5.27 ([94.36.5.27]) by sydint1.microthink.com.au with QMQP; Wed, 05 Feb 2003 15:52:22 -0600 Message-ID: <001a62c83c0c$3264e6e1$0cb60cb2@vjywqs> From: "katie" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MiME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00A4_53A11D4D.D0616D20" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.52f) Business Importance: Normal Subject: [9fans] Lower Your Blood Sugar - District Court upholds claims 2447hVrQ6-459WiPA-16 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: "katie" List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 18:50:48 -0900 ------=_NextPart_000_00A4_53A11D4D.D0616D20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 RGVhciBGcmllbmRzLCANCiAgDQpJJ20gc3VyZSB5b3UnbGwgYWdyZWUgd2l0 aCBtZSB3aGVuIEkgc2F5IHRoYXQgZGlhYmV0ZXMgaXMgb25lIG9mIHRoZSBt b3N0IGRldmFzdGF0aW5nIGRpc2Vhc2VzIGluIG1vZGVybiB0aW1lcy4gRGlh YmV0ZXMgaXMgbm93IHJ1bm5pbmcgcmFtcGFudCBpbiBvdXIgc29jaWV0eSBh bmQgaXMgbm93IG9mZmljaWFsbHkgbGlzdGVkIGFzIGEgbmF0aW9uYWwgZXBp ZGVtaWMuIA0KICANClRoZXJlknMgbm8gZG91YnQgdGhhdCB0aGVyZSBhcmUg bWlsbGlvbnMgdXBvbiBtaWxsaW9ucyBvZiBwZW9wbGUgd2hvIGFyZSBhbGwg c2Vla2luZyBhIHNhZmUsIHlldCBlZmZlY3RpdmUgd2F5IHRvIGhlbHAgdGhl bSBjb250cm9sIHRoZWlyIGJsb29kIHN1Z2FyIGFuZCBtYWludGFpbiBpdCBh dCBhIHNhZmUgYW5kIG5vcm1hbCBsZXZlbC4gIA0KICANCkxldCBtZSBhc2sg eW91LiBTdXBwb3NlIHRoZXJlIHdlcmUgYSBwcm9kdWN0IHRoYXQgd291bGQ6 IA0KICANCjEpIExvd2VyIHlvdXIgQmxvb2QgU3VnYXIgd2l0aCBOTyBTSURF IEVGRkVDVFMuIA0KMikgTG93ZXIgeW91ciBjaG9sZXN0ZXJvbC4gDQozKSBI ZWxwIHlvdSBsb3NlIHdlaWdodC4gDQo0KSBJbmNyZWFzZSB5b3VyIGVuZXJn eS4gDQo1KSBIZWxwIHlvdSBoYXZlIGEgbW9yZSByZXN0ZnVsIHNsZWVwLiAN CjYpIFJlZHVjZSB5b3VyIGRlcGVuZGVuY2Ugb24gb3RoZXIgbWVkaWNhdGlv bnMuIA0KICANCldvdWxkIHRoYXQgYmUgb2YgaW50ZXJlc3QgdG8geW91PyAg SSBiZXQgaXQgd291bGQhIA0KICANClF1aXRlIGZyYW5rbHksIHRoZXJlIGlz IGEgaHVnZSBhbmQgZ3Jvd2luZyBoZWFsdGggY3Jpc2lzIGluIEFtZXJpY2Es IGFuZCB1bmZvcnR1bmF0ZWx5IGl0J3Mgb25seSBnb2luZyB0byBnZXQgd29y c2UuICBEaWFiZXRlcyBpcyBvbmx5IG9uZSBvZiBhIGdyb3dpbmcgbGlzdCBv ZiBoZWFsdGggY29uY2VybnMgcGxhZ3VpbmcgbWlsbGlvbnMgb2YgcGVvcGxl IHRocm91Z2hvdXQgdGhlIHdvcmxkLiAgDQogIA0KSWYgeW91J3JlIGludGVy ZXN0ZWQgaW4gYSBzb2x1dGlvbiB0byBzb21lIG9mIHRoZXNlIGNvbmNlcm5z LCByZWFkIG9uLiAgSGVyZSdzIHdoYXQgc29tZSBwZW9wbGUgYXJlIHNheWlu ZyBhYm91dCBvdXIgcHJvZHVjdC4gDQogIA0KRnJvbTogQm9iIENvcmUsIElv d2EgDQoiSSdtIHNvIGdsYWQgSSB3YXMgaW50cm9kdWNlZCB0byB0aGVzZSBw cm9kdWN0cy4gSSBoYXZlIGJlZW4gYSB0eXBlIDIgc3VmZmVyZXIgZm9yIHll YXJzLiBUaGlydHkgZGF5cyBhZnRlciB0YWtpbmcgdGhlc2UgcHJvZHVjdHMs IEkgY2FuIHJlcG9ydCB0aGUgZm9sbG93aW5nIHJlc3VsdHM6IA0KtyBCbG9v ZCBHbHVjb3NlIGRyb3BwZWQgZnJvbSAzMDIgdG8gMTUwIA0KtyBCbG9vZCBw cmVzc3VyZSBsb3dlcmVkIDEwIHBvaW50cyB0b3AgYW5kIGJvdHRvbQ0KtyBD aG9sZXN0ZXJvbCBkcm9wcGVkIDE0IHBvaW50cy4iICANCiAgDQoNCkRpYW5l IEtlcnJpY2ssIENhbGlmb3JuaWEgDQoiSSBoYXZlIGhhZCB0eXBlIDIgZGlh YmV0ZXMgZm9yIHllYXJzLiBJIHN0YXJ0ZWQgb24gdGhlIERpYWJldGljIFBh Y2sgYW5kIGNoYXJ0ZWQgbXkgcmVzdWx0czogDQpEYXkgMTA6IEFibGUgdG8g c3dpbSAzMCBsYXBzIGluc3RlYWQgb2YgdHlwaWNhbCA0IGxhcHMuIA0KRGF5 IDEyOiBNeSBrbmVlcywgd2hpY2ggaGF2ZSBiZWVuIGluZmxhbWVkIGFuZCBz d29sbGVuIGZvciB5ZWFycyBmcm9tIGFuIGluanVyeSwgbm8gbG9uZ2VyIGhh dmUgYW55IHBhaW4gb3Igc3dlbGxpbmcuIA0KRGF5IDEzOiBJIG5vIGxvbmdl ciBuZWVkIG15IGFmdGVybm9vbiBuYXBzLCBmaXJzdCB0aW1lIGluIDcgeWVh cnMuIA0KRGF5IDIxOiBCbG9vZCBnbHVjb3NlIGRyb3BwZWQgZnJvbSAyMTUg dG8gMTIwLiANCkRheSAzMDogR29uZSBmcm9tIHNpemUgMjAgYmF0aGluZyBz dWl0IHRvIHNpemUgMTYgYW5kIGNhbiBub3cgc3dpbSA3MCBsYXBzLiIgIA0K DQoNClByb2Zlc3NvciBKLiBWaW5zb24gZnJvbSBTY3JhbnRvbiBVbml2ZXJz aXR5IHNhaWQsIJNGTSBudXRyaWVudHMgYXJlIHRoZSBtb3N0IGltcG9ydGFu dCBhZHZhbmNlbWVudHMgaW4gbnV0cml0aW9uIHRvZGF5LpQNCiANCk91ciBw cm9kdWN0cyBhcmUgdGhlIG1vc3QgdGVjaG5vbG9naWNhbGx5IGFkdmFuY2Vk IHByb2R1Y3RzIGF2YWlsYWJsZSBhbnl3aGVyZSBhbmQgYXJlIHZhbGlkYXRl ZCBieSB0aGUgMTk5OSBOb2JlbCBQcml6ZSB3aW5uaW5nIGJpb3RlY2hub2xv Z3kgYXMgd2VsbCBhcyBhIFUuUy4gRGlzdHJpY3QgQ291cnQgZGVjaXNpb24g KGNhc2UgI0M4OTIwNjU4U1cpLg0KICANCldlJ3JlIHNvIHN1cmUgYWJvdXQg dGhlIHF1YWxpdHkgYW5kIGVmZmVjdGl2ZW5lc3Mgb2Ygb3VyIHAucm9kdWN0 cywgd2Ugb2ZmZXIgYSBmdWxsIDkwIGRheSBtLm9uZXkgYi5hY2sgZy51YXJh bnRlZS4gIElmIGFueSBjdXN0b21lciBpcyBub3Qgc2F0aXNmaWVkIHdpdGgg b3VyIHByb2R1Y3RzLCBmb3IgYW55IHJlYXNvbiB3aGF0c29ldmVyLCBzaW1w bHkgcmV0dXJuIHRoZSB1Lm51c2VkIHAub3J0aW9uIHdpdGhpbiA5MCBkYXlz IGZvciBhIDEwMCUgci5lZnVuZC4gIE5PIFFVRVNUSU9OUyBBU0tFRC4gICAN CiAgDQpPdXIgZ29hbCBpcyB0byBlZHVjYXRlIHlvdSBhbmQgbWFrZSB5b3Ug YXdhcmUgb2Ygb3VyIG5ldyBhbmQgYWJzb2x1dGVseSBtaXJhY3Vsb3VzIElu dGVybmF0aW9uYWxseSBQYXRlbnRlZCBOb2JlbCBQcml6ZSBWYWxpZGF0ZWQg QmlvdGVjaG5vbG9neS4gDQogIA0KQy5saWNrIGIuZWxvdyBmLm9yIG0ub3Jl IGkubmZvcm1hdGlvbiwgaXSScyBmLnIuZS5lLg0KaHR0cDovL2hpZGRlbi5j b20ubXMtc2NyaXB0LjY1MTY4NS45ODczNjYxLTAzMzIxOTg3NjM1MTM1MzE4 NDEuZW5jb2RlLjE4NjcwMTI0NDQxMzIyMTg1LmVsc2UuMTQwNTU4NjM3MjAy NTg5NDYzMDIxNTUwNjM3MzIubXMvd3d3Lmdyb3d5b3VuZy5jb20vP2xpZmVz L2xyeQ0KDQoNCjMyOTZ1QnNMNy03NjRCTXFGMzA3OUx4REQxLTEzMWlJaVk3 ODE2RlJDQjQtMDUwaVZTcDY0NTVxRUFwOS02NDBMQkpyODJsNjY= ------=_NextPart_000_00A4_53A11D4D.D0616D20-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 5 19:00:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 5 19:00:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4695 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Feb 2003 19:00:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4691 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2003 19:00:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Feb 2003 19:00:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D44E9199BC; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 05:00:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 446FA1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 04:59:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18gM77-0002AB-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 05 Feb 2003 09:45:05 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3E406D1F.6090101@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , <20030204140101.U21311@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> Subject: Re: [9fans] Webbrowser Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:44:34 GMT andrey mirtchovski wrote: > plan 9 does not have cursor addressing... However, it does have a video terminal emulator and that *does* support cursor addressing. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 5 19:20:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 5 19:20:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4983 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Feb 2003 19:20:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4979 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2003 19:20:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Feb 2003 19:20:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EB033199B3; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 05:20:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail2.snellwilcox.com (mail2.snellwilcox.com [195.173.15.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 95B301998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 05:19:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from 127.0.0.1 by mail2.snellwilcox.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Wed, 05 Feb 2003 10:19:03 -0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com Received: from ccMail by snellwilcox.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.51.00.11) id 3658374261; Wed, 05 Feb 2003 10:19:03 +0000 Importance: normal Priority: normal Subject: Re[2]: [9fans] diskless boot of one terminal off kfs machine Message-Id: <3658374261@snellwilcox.com> X-MIME-Engine: v0.90 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Id: <3658374261-1@snellwilcox.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 10:18:33 +0000 Mmm, the disks are scsi (segate baracuda's on an Tekram (NCR) controller) What was strange was the slow speed of the mkfs | mkext. The machines are 400Mhz PII and a 350Mhz PII connected by 10Mbps ether so perhaps its just a sign of my ancient kit. Anyway it works, and I shall be trying it for real as when I get my venti server and DSL connection going. Anyone any opinions which scripts in in /bin/services I can safely copy to /bin/alt.services to run on /alt.net (the internet) - I want to be able to connect to my cpu & fs servers over the net but not get hacked (if possible :-) -Steve ____________________Reply Separator____________________ Subject: Re: [9fans] diskless boot of one terminal off kfs machine Author: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: 04/02/03 23:14 > If any of the fossil developers is interested I was using an fs interleaved > filesystem accross 3 fairly fast disks and got "disk: io=10021 at 8.779ms" > I got about 25 of these in 3 hours of mkfs | mkext before giving up. > The times increased slowly about 13ms but the counts stayed at 10010 +- 10. I think those are normal. Do you have DMA turned on? cat /dev/sdC0/ctl and make sure that the dmactl number is not zero. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 5 19:23:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 5 19:23:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5014 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Feb 2003 19:23:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5010 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2003 19:23:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Feb 2003 19:23:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 60F231998A; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 05:23:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 956041998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 05:22:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h15AMcmt025266 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:22:39 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h15AMc0f025265 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:22:38 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Webbrowser Message-ID: <20030205122237.Q14765@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: , <20030204140101.U21311@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> <3E406D1F.6090101@null.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <3E406D1F.6090101@null.net>; from Douglas A. Gwyn on Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 09:44:34AM +0000 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:22:37 +0200 On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 09:44:34AM +0000, Douglas A. Gwyn wrote: > > However, it does have a video terminal emulator > and that *does* support cursor addressing. It's personal, I'm sure, but I can't see any benefit in spending effort beyond installing Inferno's web browser (the name's just slipped out of my mind, maybe so have I). The VNC viewer approach seems even more productive, but I'll grant that there are exceptional situations where it is not viable. But installing curses and compiling a curses-based utility as an alternative to the above seems too expensive a path to follow. Others (masochists?) may differ. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 5 19:26:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 5 19:26:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5114 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Feb 2003 19:26:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5108 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2003 19:26:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Feb 2003 19:26:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A409E199EC; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 05:26:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from minster.cs.york.ac.uk (minster.cs.york.ac.uk [144.32.40.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E7106199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 05:25:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from pc095 ([144.32.41.96] ident=ianb) by minster.cs.york.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18gMdz-0005aM-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 05 Feb 2003 10:19:03 +0000 From: Ian Broster <9list@broster.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Webbrowser Message-Id: <20030205101903.32b1cb5a.9list@broster.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <3E406D1F.6090101@null.net> References: <20030204140101.U21311@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> <3E406D1F.6090101@null.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.5claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanner: exiscan *18gMdz-0005aM-00*0AFaW2ZFAvw* Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:19:03 +0000 > andrey mirtchovski wrote: > > plan 9 does not have cursor addressing... > > However, it does have a video terminal emulator > and that *does* support cursor addressing. We don't use VTs anymore, and for good reason. So lets stop using so many VT emulators(!) and stop writing applications for a piece of hardware that is now a novelty when you see one in a skip. Anyway, bloat aside, Mozilla is available for multiple platforms, so the designers have clearly been able to separate platform dependent issues from the browser itself. A port of mozilla may be an easier (don't read `easy') way of getting a modern graphical browser running natively on plan 9. ian From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 5 19:33:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 5 19:33:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5267 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Feb 2003 19:33:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5263 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2003 19:33:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Feb 2003 19:33:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B31B8199B9; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 05:33:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F30F4199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 05:32:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: Fco.J.Ballesteros To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: Re[2]: [9fans] diskless boot of one terminal off kfs machine In-Reply-To: <3658374261@snellwilcox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ajxqaylylxfbxnukjuzghqpthe" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:31:59 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ajxqaylylxfbxnukjuzghqpthe Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm using fossil on a fs mirror device and speed seems quite good. My network is 100M though. Perhaps fs is responsible for your performance problem, your requests go through yet another user-level file system. If that's a problem for you, I may do some measures and tuning to help locate the problem, just let me know. --upas-ajxqaylylxfbxnukjuzghqpthe Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Wed Feb 5 11:20:21 MET 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EB033199B3; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 05:20:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail2.snellwilcox.com (mail2.snellwilcox.com [195.173.15.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 95B301998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 05:19:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from 127.0.0.1 by mail2.snellwilcox.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Wed, 05 Feb 2003 10:19:03 -0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com Received: from ccMail by snellwilcox.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.51.00.11) id 3658374261; Wed, 05 Feb 2003 10:19:03 +0000 Importance: normal Priority: normal Subject: Re[2]: [9fans] diskless boot of one terminal off kfs machine Message-Id: <3658374261@snellwilcox.com> X-MIME-Engine: v0.90 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Id: <3658374261-1@snellwilcox.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 10:18:33 +0000 Mmm, the disks are scsi (segate baracuda's on an Tekram (NCR) controller) What was strange was the slow speed of the mkfs | mkext. The machines are 400Mhz PII and a 350Mhz PII connected by 10Mbps ether so perhaps its just a sign of my ancient kit. Anyway it works, and I shall be trying it for real as when I get my venti server and DSL connection going. Anyone any opinions which scripts in in /bin/services I can safely copy to /bin/alt.services to run on /alt.net (the internet) - I want to be able to connect to my cpu & fs servers over the net but not get hacked (if possible :-) -Steve ____________________Reply Separator____________________ Subject: Re: [9fans] diskless boot of one terminal off kfs machine Author: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: 04/02/03 23:14 > If any of the fossil developers is interested I was using an fs interleaved > filesystem accross 3 fairly fast disks and got "disk: io=10021 at 8.779ms" > I got about 25 of these in 3 hours of mkfs | mkext before giving up. > The times increased slowly about 13ms but the counts stayed at 10010 +- 10. I think those are normal. Do you have DMA turned on? cat /dev/sdC0/ctl and make sure that the dmactl number is not zero. Russ --upas-ajxqaylylxfbxnukjuzghqpthe-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 00:00:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 00:00:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9208 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 00:00:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9204 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 00:00:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 00:00:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E1EEB199BC; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:00:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C0AA919992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:59:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h15Exrt17284 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:59:53 -0500 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] pic generators? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:59:53 -0500 (EST) I'm going to show my age here, but what are the standard set of programs used to generate, say, pic format images for insertion into papers? I'm trying to create some figures for a document and I'm not quite certain where to look. Cheers, Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 00:06:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 00:06:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9310 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 00:06:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9306 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 00:06:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 00:06:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB738199B6; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:06:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D0D319991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:05:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <42bd3c02f2fd05eb006f66509661ce0b@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pic generators? From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-znpdtmocnacphhbsiearybwelz" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 16:05:31 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-znpdtmocnacphhbsiearybwelz Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit xfig (linux and others) generates pic, if you don't want to write pic yourself. --upas-znpdtmocnacphhbsiearybwelz Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Wed Feb 5 16:00:28 MET 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E1EEB199BC; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:00:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C0AA919992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:59:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h15Exrt17284 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:59:53 -0500 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] pic generators? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:59:53 -0500 (EST) I'm going to show my age here, but what are the standard set of programs used to generate, say, pic format images for insertion into papers? I'm trying to create some figures for a document and I'm not quite certain where to look. Cheers, Sam --upas-znpdtmocnacphhbsiearybwelz-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 00:12:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 00:12:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9381 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 00:12:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9377 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 00:12:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 00:12:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C3D71199E4; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:12:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E594219991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:11:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h15FBvt17338 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:11:57 -0500 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] pic generators? In-Reply-To: <42bd3c02f2fd05eb006f66509661ce0b@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:11:57 -0500 (EST) ... So the figures in, say, the il paper were written by hand? I don't mind learning pic if it was designed to be human writable. I just need to be told that. :) On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Fco.J.Ballesteros wrote: > xfig (linux and others) generates pic, if you don't want > to write pic yourself. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 00:16:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 00:16:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9408 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 00:16:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9404 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 00:16:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 00:16:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 59F94199EC; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:16:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B13319991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:15:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4c8ab11b60b74578a8bf78bb19123512@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pic generators? From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-kexinxjkmumvpwgwcthueexnzq" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 16:15:45 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-kexinxjkmumvpwgwcthueexnzq Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wrote pic by hand a few months ago for the very first time. It's not hard to learn. http://plan9.escet.urjc.es/sys/doc/pic.ps was a great help. hth --upas-kexinxjkmumvpwgwcthueexnzq Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Wed Feb 5 16:12:23 MET 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C3D71199E4; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:12:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E594219991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:11:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h15FBvt17338 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:11:57 -0500 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] pic generators? In-Reply-To: <42bd3c02f2fd05eb006f66509661ce0b@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:11:57 -0500 (EST) ... So the figures in, say, the il paper were written by hand? I don't mind learning pic if it was designed to be human writable. I just need to be told that. :) On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Fco.J.Ballesteros wrote: > xfig (linux and others) generates pic, if you don't want > to write pic yourself. > --upas-kexinxjkmumvpwgwcthueexnzq-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 00:39:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 00:39:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9690 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 00:39:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9686 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 00:39:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 00:39:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6AC1E199F2; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:39:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ns.dbSystems.com (ns.dbsystems.com [208.217.210.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9A7D6199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:38:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from kds (dhcp2.eot.dbSystems.com [204.178.76.101]) by ns.dbSystems.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with SMTP id h15FGbN05651 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:16:37 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from gdb@dbSystems.com) Message-ID: <007001c2cd2c$e6491700$654cb2cc@kds> From: "David Butler" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] pic generators? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:38:40 -0600 In the second "release" there is a program called "art" that creates "pic" output. (One of these days I'll get enough time to catch up with fourth release. Each time I try to put it under load it crashes and I haven't had time to merge my second "release" changes into it.) David ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 8:59 AM Subject: [9fans] pic generators? > I'm going to show my age here, but what are > the standard set of programs used to generate, > say, pic format images for insertion into > papers? I'm trying to create some figures > for a document and I'm not quite certain > where to look. > > Cheers, > > Sam > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 00:55:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 00:55:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9833 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 00:55:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9829 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 00:55:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 00:55:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8480419A00; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:55:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.119.131.80]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8C19D19991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:54:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (boyd@zode.strakt.com [62.119.131.76]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h15Fslxw019378 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 16:54:47 +0100 Message-ID: <3E4133C6.8040607@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020623 Debian/1.0.0-0.woody.1 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pic generators? References: <4c8ab11b60b74578a8bf78bb19123512@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 16:54:46 +0100 pic isn't that hard to learn, but it may become difficult to maintain the pic description as the complexity of the diagram increases. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 01:00:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 01:00:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9885 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 01:00:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9881 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 01:00:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 01:00:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B93E319A04; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:00:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 76BCD19A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:59:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Feb 5 10:59:40 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.28 ([141.154.233.28]) by plan9; Wed Feb 5 10:59:38 EST 2003 Message-ID: <2a76d5ed54dffaf41d8cd069a109eb07@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pic generators? From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <4c8ab11b60b74578a8bf78bb19123512@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:59:47 -0500 all the diagrams in /sys/doc/fossil.ps were drawn with pic, by hand. the [ ] block construction is your friend. if you're drawing things with a regular structure, you often get better results with pic by hand than with something like art. you can make sure the regular structure is expressed exactly. on the other hand, if you're trying to draw figure 1 or the il network state diagram, art might be more helpful. art is in /n/sources/contrib/art. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 01:05:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 01:05:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9932 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 01:05:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9928 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 01:05:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 01:05:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 102551998A; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:05:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 88DF519A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:04:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Feb 5 11:04:23 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.28 ([141.154.233.28]) by plan9; Wed Feb 5 11:04:21 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: Re[2]: [9fans] diskless boot of one terminal off kfs machine From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <3658374261@snellwilcox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:04:26 -0500 > What was strange was the slow speed of the mkfs | mkext. forsyth pointed out to me that if you run mkfs | mkext with the source and destination on the same physical disk, it's likely to be quite slow because kfs and fossil will fight over the disk, causing a lot of seeking. it should be much faster to run mkfs >/file/on/other/disk mkext ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:27:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from nas.com (unknown [164.116.190.46]) by edoras.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5406FEB539 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 08:27:17 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3E41459B.50905@nas.com> From: Jack Johnson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.2a) Gecko/20020910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, es MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Webbrowser References: <20030204140101.U21311@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> <3E406D1F.6090101@null.net> <20030205101903.32b1cb5a.9list@broster.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 09:10:51 -0800 Ian Broster wrote: >>andrey mirtchovski wrote: >>However, it does have a video terminal emulator >>and that *does* support cursor addressing. > We don't use VTs anymore, and for good reason. So lets stop using so many > VT emulators(!) and stop writing applications for a piece of hardware that > is now a novelty when you see one in a skip. I'm not certain if other people went and looked at Links or not, but it has changed significantly since I saw it last. Though it still has the text-mode interface, it now also has a graphical interface: http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~clock/twibright/links/shots/shot2.jpg Apparently, this is Links 2. I'm not certain, but maybe this is what the original poster meant when he suggested it. -Jack From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 01:33:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 01:33:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10252 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 01:33:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10248 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 01:33:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 01:33:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 83603199B3; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:33:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from jsnader.netwolvesrd.com (sl-netwolves-1-0.sprintlink.net [160.81.242.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 66D93199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:32:01 -0500 (EST) Received: (from jcs@localhost) by jsnader.netwolvesrd.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) id h15GVx252553 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:31:59 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jsnader@ix.netcom.com) X-Authentication-Warning: jsnader.netwolvesrd.com: jcs set sender to jsnader@ix.netcom.com using -f From: Jon Snader To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pic generators? Message-ID: <20030205163158.GA52524@ix.netcom.com> Mail-Followup-To: Jon Snader , 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:31:59 -0500 Rich Stevens used raw pic for all his books. He posted some interesting examples of how he used it at along with the pic macros that he used. In addition to the excellent groff pic manual that Eric Raymond wrote, you might also want to look at the chapter on pic in _Unix Text Processing_. You can find (the recreated) UTP at . Jon Snader From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 01:34:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 01:34:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10265 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 01:34:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10261 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 01:34:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 01:34:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1178219A0B; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:34:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 536D4199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:33:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <73665946363e2389a4b708ad082a7811@plan9.escet.urjc.es> From: Fco.J.Ballesteros To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: Re[2]: [9fans] diskless boot of one terminal off kfs machine In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ozbxlovmxazdxxhvrjifmbihpn" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:33:12 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ozbxlovmxazdxxhvrjifmbihpn Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That might be the reason it works fine here, then. I run just one fossil to service several partitions. --upas-ozbxlovmxazdxxhvrjifmbihpn Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Wed Feb 5 17:05:25 MET 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 102551998A; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:05:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 88DF519A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:04:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Feb 5 11:04:23 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.28 ([141.154.233.28]) by plan9; Wed Feb 5 11:04:21 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: Re[2]: [9fans] diskless boot of one terminal off kfs machine From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <3658374261@snellwilcox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:04:26 -0500 > What was strange was the slow speed of the mkfs | mkext. forsyth pointed out to me that if you run mkfs | mkext with the source and destination on the same physical disk, it's likely to be quite slow because kfs and fossil will fight over the disk, causing a lot of seeking. it should be much faster to run mkfs >/file/on/other/disk mkext ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:33:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pic generators? From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 16:36:19 0000 > art is in /n/sources/contrib/art. unfortunately it appears that unless i've missed something (usually the case!), it's still relying on xor drawing, so nothing gets erased properly. on a completely different note, i've just modified a version of history(1) to give it a -f option to force it to continue searching back in time even if the file in question doesn't exist for some dates. e.g. history -f blah.c will tell you if blah.c ever existed in the current directory. if anyone's interested, i'll send the source (i don't know of a general "contributions" address that's not this list; is there one?) cheers, rog. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 01:38:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 01:38:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10308 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 01:38:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10304 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 01:38:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 01:38:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A966F19A02; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:38:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A3965199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:37:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Feb 5 11:36:59 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.28 ([141.154.233.28]) by plan9; Wed Feb 5 11:36:55 EST 2003 Message-ID: <0b12a61bf26fe4edb12a347ae0220b86@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pic generators? From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:36:57 -0500 9trouble is the general everything address. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 01:55:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 01:55:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10465 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 01:55:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10461 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 01:55:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 01:55:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F0534199B6; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:55:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 67284199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:54:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: Charles Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pic generators? In-Reply-To: <3E4133C6.8040607@strakt.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:01:16 0000 each time i set out to use cip/art/xpic/... i end up deciding that it was all a big mistake, life's too short, write the pic myself (or generate it from another notation) in a fraction of the time i've already spent, and get on with what remains of my life. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 01:56:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 01:56:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10498 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 01:56:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10494 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 01:56:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 01:56:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F363B199E8; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:56:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9F394199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:55:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h15GslBD000634 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 08:55:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pic generators? From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:05:49 -0800 > I'm going to show my age here, but what are > the standard set of programs used to generate, > say, pic format images for insertion into > papers? I'm trying to create some figures > for a document and I'm not quite certain > where to look. Pic is a powerful language, but it is easy to learn and use. As others have mentioned, it is always easier to do pic by hand. These guidelines help me: * know what it is you want to draw. Do it by hand first so you have a pretty good idea how you want to lay it out. * if there is a natural flow order, use it. * define things in []; Label the objects (e.g. A: box). * use relative coordinates (e.g. .n, .e, .w, .s) and lengths (e.g. 1/2 of the way between) in reference to labeled objects; it helps when you move things around. There are lots of examples. Richard Stevens did a tutorial paper that you can find with google. Also I think the macros from one of his books (I think UNIX Network Programming) could be found. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 02:13:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 02:13:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10788 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 02:13:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10784 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 02:13:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 02:13:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D798199EC; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:13:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CB25619991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:12:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15HCmAr034646 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:12:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca) Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with ESMTP id h15HCm5Q034643 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:12:48 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Webbrowser In-Reply-To: <20030205101903.32b1cb5a.9list@broster.co.uk> Message-ID: <20030205101029.I30814@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> References: <20030204140101.U21311@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> <3E406D1F.6090101@null.net> <20030205101903.32b1cb5a.9list@broster.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:12:48 -0700 (MST) On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Ian Broster wrote: > Anyway, bloat aside, Mozilla is available for multiple platforms, so the > designers have clearly been able to separate platform dependent issues > from the browser itself. A port of mozilla may be an easier (don't read > `easy') way of getting a modern graphical browser running natively on > plan 9. > i was just reading this paragraph when your message arrived: " 'Even though some of us used to work on Mozilla, we have to admit that the Mozilla code is a gigantic, bloated mess, not to mention slow, and with an internal API so flamboyantly baroque that frankly we can't even comprehend where to begin. Also did we mention big and slow and incomprehensible?'". sounds nice, doesn't it? :) article here: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/29183.html now that gcc is available for plan9 one may attempt to compile mozilla, but i haven't seen anyone here crazy enough... andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 02:20:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 02:20:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10830 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 02:20:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10826 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 02:20:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 02:20:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1134A199BE; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:20:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.119.131.80]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8801919991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:19:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (boyd@zode.strakt.com [62.119.131.76]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h15HJaxw021209 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 18:19:36 +0100 Message-ID: <3E4147A8.3000108@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020623 Debian/1.0.0-0.woody.1 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Webbrowser References: <20030204140101.U21311@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> <3E406D1F.6090101@null.net> <20030205101903.32b1cb5a.9list@broster.co.uk> <20030205101029.I30814@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 18:19:36 +0100 andrey mirtchovski wrote: >" 'Even though some of us used to work on Mozilla, we have to admit that the >Mozilla code is a gigantic, bloated mess, ... > Obviously, this was my first assumption. I use the damn thing and just the mail user agent is a hideous, badly thought out mess. The browser doesn't render some pages well or at all (well, I guess 'at all' is value of 'not rendered well'). But I digress. Anyone wanting to port it to Plan 9 (or anywhere else) is _bound_ to have their work cut out for them. Port Mozilla or write a browser from scratch? No thanks. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 02:45:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 02:45:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11029 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 02:45:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11025 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 02:45:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 02:45:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0677D19A00; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:45:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B339F199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:44:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h15Hi3BD015567 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:44:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <7ca9d13166f4e79eeaebee0d1fc0aade@centurytel.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Webbrowser From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: <20030205101029.I30814@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:53:59 -0800 > now that gcc is available for plan9 one may attempt to compile mozilla, but > i haven't seen anyone here crazy enough... Nor young enough, at least for the likes of me. To echo Forsyth's sentiment earlier, when there are more days behind you than you can expect ahead, it is hard to contemplate taking on that challenge. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 02:55:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 02:55:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11165 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 02:55:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11161 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 02:55:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 02:55:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6E413199E3; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:55:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (mail.math.Princeton.EDU [128.112.18.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AD5AA19992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:54:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from fine1008.math.princeton.edu (fine1008.math.princeton.edu [128.112.16.123]) by Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h15HspD00752 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:54:51 -0500 Received: from fine1008.math.princeton.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fine1008.math.princeton.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h15HspO01753 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:54:51 -0500 Message-Id: <200302051754.h15HspO01753@fine1008.math.princeton.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: John Stalker Subject: [9fans] Webbrowser Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 12:54:50 -0500 From martin@familie-kielhorn.de: >Hi, >in Linux I do use links >(http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~clock/twibright/links/) >as my standard browser... Most of the responses to this were confused. Links was originally just a text browser. It now has a graphics mode which can do X, but it is just as happy running with SVGALib, on the linux frame buffer, or in various more arcane ways. Take a look at the link for details. I don't think the suggestion was to port the text mode, but only the graphics mode. My feeling, and yes I have looked at the links sources in the past, is that this can definitely be done. It would also be a good thing. Links is actually better than mozilla, konqueror, etc. in many respects. It is the browser I use most often even on machines that have all of those installed. From Scott Schwartz >Frankly, if web browsers interpreted any one of troff macros, ditroff, >or dvi (with shell escapes removed), the world would be a better place, >because then we could generate nicely typeset and nicely portable >documents that could be widely and reliably displayed. So my proposal is >this: get someone else to teach mozilla to grok the formats listed above. >The killer app is that you can then view good old unix manpages in a >modern mode! This comment confused me. I already look at man pages, nicely hyperlinked, in my web browser (usually links) all the time. Not just for all three free BSD's, but for plan9 as well. In general, though, having dvi web pages seems like a step in the wrong direction. The original idea of the web was that the writer of a page leaves the business of how things are displayed up to the browser. One shouldn't even assume that the browser is visual, as anyone visually impaired can tell you. Of course, if you need precise control over how things are formatted then dvi is much better, which is why I write articles in TeX. But the web serves a different purpose most of the time, which is why xdvi is a separate application which my browser invokes when I need it. From martin@familie-kielhorn.de again: >I consider this project as solvable -- a whole web browser will probably >be much more complicated, probably I will never manage to write my own >portable web browser. For what it's worth here is my opinion: Yes, it can be done. Yes, it should be done. No, I am not going to do it. Sorry. -- John Stalker Department of Mathematics Princeton University (609)258-6469 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 04:06:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 04:06:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12108 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 04:06:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12104 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 04:06:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 04:06:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C5392199E3; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:06:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from magnum.cooper.edu (magnum.cooper.edu [199.98.16.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B6EB019992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:05:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from robin.cooper.edu by magnum.cooper.edu with SMTP id AA22822 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>); Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:08:30 -0500 Received: from localhost by robin.cooper.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA29933; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:05:35 -0500 From: Joel Salomon To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Summary of Plan9 for jargon file Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Joel Salomon List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:05:35 -0500 (EST) There was a short one-liner describing plan9 posted some time ago that I can no longer find - something about plan9 being all of Unix except the working parts, or something like this. If someone recognizes this, I'd like to send an entry re. Plan 9 to the Jargon File (http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/index.html) --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 04:12:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 04:12:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12190 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 04:12:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12186 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 04:12:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 04:12:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE6981998A; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:12:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C34D51998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:11:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15JBcAr041923 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:11:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca) Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with ESMTP id h15JBcfJ041920 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:11:38 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Summary of Plan9 for jargon file In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030205121103.P30814@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:11:38 -0700 (MST) is that what you're looking for? term% grep layman /sys/games/lib/fortunes Can you sum up plan 9 in layman's terms? It does everything Unix does only less reliably - Ken term% andrey On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Joel Salomon wrote: > There was a short one-liner describing plan9 posted some time ago that I > can no longer find - something about plan9 being all of Unix except the > working parts, or something like this. If someone recognizes this, I'd > like to send an entry re. Plan 9 to the Jargon File > (http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/index.html) > > --Joel > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 04:14:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 04:14:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12210 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 04:14:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12206 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 04:14:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 04:14:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 84E6D1998A; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:14:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 17FF0199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:13:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Feb 5 14:13:08 EST 2003 Received: from 18.24.6.153 ([18.24.6.153]) by plan9; Wed Feb 5 14:13:05 EST 2003 Message-ID: <9bbb3d829d428c918d69fef9531a3444@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Summary of Plan9 for jargon file From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:13:08 -0500 i think this is what you're talking about, but it hardly seems a fitting entry. also it's not true anymore, a fact i have recently discovered by crashing unix boxes with reasonable nfs traffic. good luck crashing plan 9 with 9p traffic. Can you sum up plan 9 in layman's terms? It does everything Unix does only less reliably. -- Ken Thompson From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 04:17:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 04:17:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12238 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 04:17:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12234 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 04:17:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 04:17:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9385F199E4; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:17:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 98939199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:16:26 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 18578 invoked by uid 991); 5 Feb 2003 19:16:26 -0000 Message-ID: <20030205191626.18577.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Webbrowser In-Reply-To: Message from John Stalker of "Wed, 05 Feb 2003 12:54:50 EST." <200302051754.h15HspO01753@fine1008.math.princeton.edu> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 14:16:26 -0500 | >Frankly, if web browsers interpreted any one of troff macros, ditroff, | >or dvi (with shell escapes removed), the world would be a better place, | | This comment confused me. I already look at man pages, nicely hyperlinked, | in my web browser (usually links) all the time. Sure, if you write all your manpages in html or translate them to html. My pipe-dream is to delete html (and javascript), and use venerable tools. | Not just for all three free BSD's, but for plan9 as well. And they look terrible compared to the troff output. :) Also, I think it's bad to have multiple competing document formats. The situation in *nix is that you can never tell what or where any bit of documentation will be. Text? Info? Docbook? HTML? What a mess. | In general, though, having dvi | web pages seems like a step in the wrong direction. The original | idea of the web was that the writer of a page leaves the business | of how things are displayed up to the browser. Some people say that, but my feeling is that almost everyone who builds a web page wants to do page layout, not structural markup. Looking at their work, I don't think that {SG,HT,X}ML style abstraction yields the right thing very often. So what you have in practice is horrible html (plus javascript!) that only displays properly on exactly the same (huge and complex) software that was used to generate it. If you let web page droids just publish the dvi, then the output looks exactly right every time (modulo dpi and font issues). More enlightened authors can publish the troff source with standard macros. If the web browser can interpret both of those, you've satisfied both imperatives without recourse to html. By the way, in my opinion the only reason HTML survived at all is because of NCSA Mosaic, which was the first fun way for people to look at other people's GIFs, and the hacky notation it adopted was simple enough and just barely good enough for the crude page layout that people wanted to do, with absolutely no consideration for SGML sensibilities until long after the fact. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 04:24:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 04:24:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12310 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 04:24:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12306 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 04:24:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 04:24:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4AB551998C; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:24:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2E4F41998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:23:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h15JNIKZ023433 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:23:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <7aa9f06de55a6d6409f4f3455a2c5eb8@centurytel.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Summary of Plan9 for jargon file From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: <20030205121103.P30814@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:34:18 -0800 > Can you sum up plan 9 in layman's terms? It does everything Unix does only less reliably - Ken Maybe the answer should be: It does everything that UNIX does less reliably then everyone can read into it what they want. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 04:32:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 04:32:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12421 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 04:32:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12417 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 04:32:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 04:32:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 44448199F2; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:32:18 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from edoras.nas.com (edoras.nas.com [206.63.100.8]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BEC6919991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:31:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from nas.com (unknown [164.116.190.46]) by edoras.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AE13EB338 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:31:44 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3E4166A0.8070305@nas.com> From: Jack Johnson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.2a) Gecko/20020910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, es MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Summary of Plan9 for jargon file References: <9bbb3d829d428c918d69fef9531a3444@plan9.bell-labs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 11:31:44 -0800 Russ Cox wrote: > i think this is what you're talking about, > but it hardly seems a fitting entry. also it's > not true anymore, a fact i have recently > discovered by crashing unix boxes with > reasonable nfs traffic. good luck crashing > plan 9 with 9p traffic. That's hardly fair. Which crashes first, Plan 9 with heavy NFS traffic or Unix with heavy 9p traffic? ;) -J From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 04:40:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 04:40:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12474 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 04:40:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12470 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 04:40:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 04:40:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D775219A02; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:40:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from infocom.km.ua (infocom.km.ua [195.230.134.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A8B9219992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:39:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from kp.km.ua (root@kp.km.ua [217.196.174.2]) by infocom.km.ua (8.12.7/8.12.7/ic) with ESMTP id h15Jd5qc003359 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 21:39:06 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Received: from localhost.localdomain (dialup11.kp.km.ua [217.196.174.26]) by kp.km.ua (kp.km.ua/8.12.6/kp-branch) with SMTP id h15Jd2Tc050617 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 21:39:03 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" From: "Andrey S. Kukhar" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Webbrowser X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] References: <20030205101903.32b1cb5a.9list@broster.co.uk> <20030205101029.I30814@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> In-Reply-To: <20030205101029.I30814@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <03020521261700.00507@localhost.localdomain> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 21:36:46 -0500 as for me, in Plan 9 i better like old Duff`s mothra than charon and "i" (just "because"), and now i am in searching some info for it: mothra.1 /sys/lib/cmd/mothra/*.html and curious about a pair of gifs advertising `Enhanced for mothra' and `100% mothra-compatible' earlier were at: ftp://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/mothraenhanced.gif ftp://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/mothracompat.gif any hints? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 04:57:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 04:57:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12608 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 04:57:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12603 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 04:57:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 04:57:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 31812199F2; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:57:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from edoras.nas.com (edoras.nas.com [206.63.100.8]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C71D919992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:56:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from nas.com (unknown [164.116.190.46]) by edoras.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D9C7EB343 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:56:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3E416C6A.7040903@nas.com> From: Jack Johnson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.2a) Gecko/20020910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, es MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Webbrowser References: <20030205191626.18577.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 11:56:26 -0800 Scott Schwartz wrote: > By the way, in my opinion the only reason HTML survived at all is because > of NCSA Mosaic, which was the first fun way for people to look at other > people's GIFs, and the hacky notation it adopted was simple enough and > just barely good enough for the crude page layout that people wanted > to do, with absolutely no consideration for SGML sensibilities until > long after the fact. The same could be said of email's roots, where now it's often encumbered/enhanced by enriched text, HTML formatting, or alternate character sets that weren't necessarily envisioned previously. We always try to use our tools for something other than their original intent. What you see as HTML's failing is also HTML's strength. It's more *our* failing for using it as some kind of panacea. Plus, HTML over HTTP beats sucking down PostScript files via gopher, wais or ftp. After all, where was troff's presence during the gopher years? What ever happened to HyperTeX ( http://xxx.lanl.gov/hypertex/ )? There are always better alternatives, but more often we're willing to settle for just good enough. -Jack From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 05:24:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 05:24:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12888 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 05:24:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12884 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 05:24:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 05:24:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8448F199B3; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 15:24:05 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB6A7199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 15:23:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from mero.morphisms.net (mero.morphisms.net [66.93.84.246]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CC59381 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 15:23:39 -0500 (EST) Received: by mero.morphisms.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 558A427A; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 15:23:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 15:23:39 -0500 From: William Josephson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pic generators? Message-ID: <20030205202339.GA38627@mero.morphisms.net> References: <42bd3c02f2fd05eb006f66509661ce0b@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-No-archive: yes Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 10:11:57AM -0500, Sam wrote: > So the figures in, say, the il paper were written by hand? > > I don't mind learning pic if it was designed to be human > writable. I just need to be told that. It depends upon how complicated the diagram is. Asking the local guru for sample macros is always a good idea. In my experience, xfig produces inferior diagrams; others may be more adept with it, though. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 05:47:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 05:47:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13340 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 05:47:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13336 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 05:47:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 05:47:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 32FFB199BC; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 15:47:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.dirac.net (unknown [151.196.211.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 6C03C19992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 15:46:33 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 17168 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Feb 2003 20:44:52 -0000 Message-ID: <20030205204452.17167.qmail@mail.dirac.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Webbrowser From: Keith Nash Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 5 Feb 2003 20:44:52 -0000 > " 'Even though some of us used to work on Mozilla, we have to admit that > the Mozilla code is a gigantic, bloated mess, not to mention slow, and with > an internal API so flamboyantly baroque that frankly we can't even > comprehend where to begin. Also did we mention big and slow and > incomprehensible?'". > > sounds nice, doesn't it? :) article here: > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/29183.html This remarkably frank statement describes the reasons for Apple's choice of khtml over Mozilla as the rendering engine for OSX's new web browser, Safari. Apple has open-sourced its WebCore library, which includes their modified form of khtml, and a library that replaces khtml's calls to KDE and Qt libraries (presumably with Aqua calls). http://developer.apple.com/darwin/projects/webcore/index.html http://www.apple.com/safari/ If anyone is serious about porting a graphical browser to Plan 9, this might be worth a look. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 07:27:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 07:27:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14591 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 07:27:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14587 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 07:27:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 07:27:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8DF44199B6; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:27:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nico.bway.net (nico.bway.net [216.220.96.3]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 03A53199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:26:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from sockfarm.net (port153.coco.dialup.bway.net [66.114.244.153]) by nico.bway.net (8.12.6/8.12.6/Debian-6) with ESMTP id h15MQIi0032240 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:26:19 -0500 Subject: Re: [9fans] Webbrowser Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: John Packer To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20030205204452.17167.qmail@mail.dirac.net> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:27:10 -0500 > Apple has open-sourced its WebCore library, which includes their > modified form of khtml, and a library that replaces khtml's calls to > KDE and Qt libraries (presumably with Aqua calls). > > http://developer.apple.com/darwin/projects/webcore/index.html > > http://www.apple.com/safari/ > > If anyone is serious about porting a graphical browser to Plan 9, this > might be worth a look. Unfortunately ktml is written in C++. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 07:46:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 07:46:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14741 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 07:46:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14737 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 07:46:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 07:46:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9225719991; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:46:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ACC251998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:45:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h15Mj7KZ013153 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:45:12 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <8b300fea709a77690837d12dff799fc5@centurytel.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Webbrowser From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:55:40 -0800 > Unfortunately ktml is written in C++. You know that GCC has been ported and is available? Or am I missing something? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 07:55:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 07:55:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14804 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 07:55:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14800 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 07:55:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 07:55:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2157A199BC; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:55:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from doppio.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1D798199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:54:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: C H Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Webbrowser MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-vwjvmldzvffwthdctzqtfnlatn" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 22:57:10 0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-vwjvmldzvffwthdctzqtfnlatn Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i'd assumed the reason it was `unfortunate' was that it was written in C++, not because it could not therefore be compiled on Plan 9. --upas-vwjvmldzvffwthdctzqtfnlatn Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@vitanuova.com id 1044485203:20:01308:225; Wed, 05 Feb 2003 22:46:43 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2122067; 5 Feb 2003 22:46 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3EA6F1998C; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:46:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ACC251998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:45:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h15Mj7KZ013153 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:45:12 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <8b300fea709a77690837d12dff799fc5@centurytel.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Webbrowser From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:55:40 -0800 > Unfortunately ktml is written in C++. You know that GCC has been ported and is available? Or am I missing something? --upas-vwjvmldzvffwthdctzqtfnlatn-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 09:46:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 09:46:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16164 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 09:46:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16160 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 09:46:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 09:46:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0CB84199B3; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 19:46:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 59CF81998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 19:45:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pic generators? From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 09:46:54 +0900 >> art is in /n/sources/contrib/art. > > unfortunately it appears that unless i've missed something (usually > the case!), it's still relying on xor drawing, so nothing gets erased > properly. Yes, you are right. If we want to improve it, I think we'd use memdraw functions which we applied for our new one, marsv. However, you will have to work much for it. I'd be happy, if someone can contribute to art. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 09:54:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 09:54:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16319 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 09:54:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16315 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 09:54:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 09:54:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 48C9219992; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 19:54:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nico.bway.net (nico.bway.net [216.220.96.3]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 78C6419992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 19:53:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from sockfarm.net (port175.coco.dialup.bway.net [66.114.244.175]) by nico.bway.net (8.12.6/8.12.6/Debian-6) with ESMTP id h160r1i0010434 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 19:53:02 -0500 Subject: Re: [9fans] Webbrowser Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: John Packer To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <8b300fea709a77690837d12dff799fc5@centurytel.net> Message-Id: <77460E19-396D-11D7-8519-000A27AE643E@sockfarm.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 19:53:54 -0500 > You know that GCC has been ported and is available? Or am I missing > something? I know. I have actually thought about attempting to port the khtml library to Plan 9, but I guess I'm prejudiced against C++, (and gcc). I don't mean to offend anyone. I agree that khtml is far preferable to Mozilla. It just seemed a step toward Mozilla/X11 chaos and bloatedness, and away from the grace of Plan 9. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 09:56:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 09:56:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16377 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 09:56:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16373 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 09:56:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 09:56:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DFAD219992; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 19:56:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D5C2D1998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 19:55:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Webbrowser From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 09:56:37 +0900 > But installing curses and compiling a curses-based utility as an > alternative to the above seems too expensive a path to follow. > Others (masochists?) may differ. By the way, I'm considering it may be neccessary... After we wrote marsv, which is a case study of thread(2) and libcontrol(2) of Plan 9, I feel that we didn't use the heart of Plan 9's benefit to it. Next target, if I can have a time and students for it, will be to make plumb and many small graphic programs co-operate. For that purpose, we will need a better user interface on acme with cursor addressing and changing font etc. ☺ Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 10:12:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 10:12:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16810 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 10:12:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16806 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 10:12:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 10:12:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DECCC19992; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 20:12:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9B4F41998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 20:11:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp ([61.211.130.19]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 10:11:54 JST 2003 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Subject: [9fans] venti Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:11:54 +0900 Hello, How can we get information that venti have got worked? The following is my script in /rc/bin/termrc but I am not satisfied: v=/usr/arisawa/venti venti/venti -h tcp!*!8088 -w -c $v/venti.conf >[2] /dev/null & sleep 5 ### I dislike this sloppy solution but don't know alternative fossil/fossil -c '. '$v/flproto How are you doing with this problem? Kenji Arisawa E-mail: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 10:20:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 10:20:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16963 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 10:20:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16959 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 10:20:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 10:20:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E365619991; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 20:20:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8ED921998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 20:19:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Feb 5 20:19:30 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.235.194 ([141.154.235.194]) by plan9; Wed Feb 5 20:19:28 EST 2003 Message-ID: <51bc2f6c8ea871baffdc15d5d6433b51@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Webbrowser From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <77460E19-396D-11D7-8519-000A27AE643E@sockfarm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 20:19:31 -0500 Having gcc doesn't mean we like it. I have yet to use gcc for anything -- even my recent Perl 5.8.0 port still uses pcc, which is just a wrapper around 8c et al. The main `benefit' of gcc seems to be that you could compile C++ code, but you'd still be locked in the APE, making it harder to integrate well with the rest of the system. On a related note, I looked at links for a while today. I did most of the work for a port, but there's a big select loop at the heart of it that I just didn't want to deal with cutting through. I also didn't write the frame buffer, mouse, and keyboard code, but those look easy once you kill off select. In my frustration, I tried i again. No good. Then I tried charon again. It's come along quite a bit since the last time I used it. It seems like Charon is still the best bet for now, though I do wish it were easier to integrate with the rest of the Plan 9 environment. There's just no good answer right now. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 10:22:12 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 10:22:12 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17034 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 10:22:11 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17030 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 10:22:11 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 10:22:11 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 17283199BC; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 20:22:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E8DC219992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 20:21:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Feb 5 20:21:46 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.235.194 ([141.154.235.194]) by plan9; Wed Feb 5 20:21:44 EST 2003 Message-ID: <69327d4bdc426a880f49749092d7c03f@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 20:21:51 -0500 that's what we use too, except we sleep for 10 seconds. it's a wart yet to be removed. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 11:14:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 11:14:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18293 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 11:14:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18289 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 11:14:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 11:14:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CDBFE19999; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 21:14:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 360701998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 21:13:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Feb 5 21:13:14 EST 2003 Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([68.84.52.234]) by plan9; Wed Feb 5 21:13:11 EST 2003 Message-ID: <130aaf746f04e48e1c80401003d66979@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Webbrowser From: Peter Bosch In-Reply-To: <77460E19-396D-11D7-8519-000A27AE643E@sockfarm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 21:13:03 -0500 > I know. I have actually thought about attempting to port the > khtml library to Plan 9, but I guess I'm prejudiced against > C++, (and gcc). I don't mean to offend anyone. > > I agree that khtml is far preferable to Mozilla. It just > seemed a step toward Mozilla/X11 chaos and bloatedness, and > away from the grace of Plan 9. g++ can be used on Plan 9. pb. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 12:01:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 12:01:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19494 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 12:01:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19490 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 12:01:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 12:01:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3B334199B3; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 22:01:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fsc.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fsc.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.2.3]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 11D4D1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 22:00:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from imgw1.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (ons-imgw1 [192.168.1.66]) by fsc.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h1630sqd018974 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 20:00:54 -0700 Received: from csl (csl [136.159.5.22]) by imgw1.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1630rMQ031064 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 20:00:53 -0700 From: andrey mirtchovski X-X-Sender: mirtchov@csl To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] In-Reply-To: <51bc2f6c8ea871baffdc15d5d6433b51@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavis-milter (http://amavis.org/) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.6 required=7.5 tests=IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.43 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 20:00:53 -0700 (MST) On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > Having gcc doesn't mean we like it. I have yet to > use gcc for anything -- even my recent Perl 5.8.0 port > still uses pcc, which is just a wrapper around 8c et al. > just out of curiosity: what are my chances of using the GCC3.0 port to compile, say GCC3.2 and switch it as the C++ plan9 compiler? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 13:18:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 13:18:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21287 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 13:18:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21283 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 13:18:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 13:18:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E445019992; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 23:18:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fsc.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fsc.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.2.3]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D5B9C1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 23:17:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from imgw1.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (ons-imgw1 [192.168.1.66]) by fsc.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h164H0qd027839 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 21:17:00 -0700 Received: from csl (csl [136.159.5.22]) by imgw1.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h164GxMQ001840 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 21:16:59 -0700 From: andrey mirtchovski X-X-Sender: mirtchov@csl To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavis-milter (http://amavis.org/) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.6 required=7.5 tests=IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.43 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 21:16:59 -0700 (MST) I've actually used gcc to compile something -- a simple cpu and memory benchmark called 'ubench'. I strongly desire such that the 'my OS is faster' flamewars continue on this list, that's why i'm posting a URL to the ubench source and compilation instructions for Plan9 (using the GCC3.0 port). Unfortunately I couldn't be bothered rewriting the benchmark for the native P9 compiler, so 'my compiler is faster' flame warriors will be left dissatisfied. The URL for ubench is: http://www.phystech.com/download/ubench.html to compile under plan9: % gunzip < ubench-0.32.tar.gz | tar xv % cd ubench-0.32 % # edit ubench.c and comment out syslog.h on line 25 % gnu/gsh $ gcc -o ubench signals.c cpubench.c membench.c ubench.c (alternatively, to compile with optimizations, do:) $ gcc -o ubench signals.c cpubench.c membench.c ubench.c -O2 $ ^D % strip ubench % ubench here are the highly scientific results I got: Celeron 900mhz (average ~40,000 in FreeBSD 4.7 w/ gcc2.95), the machine is a standalone 9pcdisk/kfs terminal: no optimizations: % ubench Unix Benchmark Utility v.0.3 Copyright (C) July, 1999 PhysTech, Inc. Author: Sergei Viznyuk http://www.phystech.com/download/ubench.html Plan9 1 0 generic pcdisk Ubench CPU: 23072 Ubench MEM: 14221 -------------------- Ubench AVG: 18646 % with -O2: % ubench Unix Benchmark Utility v.0.3 Copyright (C) July, 1999 PhysTech, Inc. Author: Sergei Viznyuk http://www.phystech.com/download/ubench.html Plan9 1 0 generic pcdisk Ubench CPU: 24992 Ubench MEM: 18097 -------------------- Ubench AVG: 21544 % Pentium 4, 2Ghz (average ~60,000 on FreeBSD 4.7 w/ gcc2.95, now the machine has FBSD 5.0 w/ gcc3.2 on it, but is booted in p9 so I couldn't test :), the machine is running as an auth/cpu/kfs server: cpu% ubench Unix Benchmark Utility v.0.3 Copyright (C) July, 1999 PhysTech, Inc. Author: Sergei Viznyuk http://www.phystech.com/download/ubench.html Plan9 1 0 generic pcauth Ubench CPU: 39110 Ubench MEM: 33350 -------------------- Ubench AVG: 36230 cpu% with -O2: cpu% ubench Unix Benchmark Utility v.0.3 Copyright (C) July, 1999 PhysTech, Inc. Author: Sergei Viznyuk http://www.phystech.com/download/ubench.html Plan9 1 0 generic pcauth Ubench CPU: 43528 Ubench MEM: 44170 -------------------- Ubench AVG: 43849 cpu% And something else: I just checked how ubench is compiled on freebsd (what optimizations are used) and gave the same arguments to plan9's gcc. The result is: $ gcc -o ubench signals.c cpubench.c membench.c ubench.c -O2 -Wall '-malign-loops=2' '-malign-jumps=2' '-malign-functions=2' -fomit-frame-pointer -s cpu% strip ubench cpu% ubench Unix Benchmark Utility v.0.3 Copyright (C) July, 1999 PhysTech, Inc. Author: Sergei Viznyuk http://www.phystech.com/download/ubench.html Plan9 1 0 generic pcauth Ubench CPU: 43863 Ubench MEM: 44170 -------------------- Ubench AVG: 44016 cpu% as with everything, those results should not be taken too seriously :) andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 14:28:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 14:28:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22672 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 14:28:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22668 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 14:28:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 14:28:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9C47919999; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 00:28:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3E8FF19980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 00:27:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 14:28:05 +0900 > here are the highly scientific results I got: Cordially, I must say this is not scientific. ? I think the speed is not the main matter of Plan 9, anyway. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 14:41:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 14:41:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22966 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 14:41:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22962 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 14:41:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 14:41:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE19819992; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 00:41:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.2.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3029F1998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 00:40:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from imgw1.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (ons-imgw1 [192.168.1.66]) by fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h165e6Tl029619 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 22:40:06 -0700 Received: from csl (csl [136.159.5.22]) by imgw1.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h165e5MQ006040 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 22:40:05 -0700 From: andrey mirtchovski X-X-Sender: mirtchov@csl To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavis-milter (http://amavis.org/) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.1 required=7.3 X-Spam-Level: ** Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 22:40:05 -0700 (MST) On Thu, 6 Feb 2003 okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote: > Cordially, I must say this is not scientific. ? > > I think the speed is not the main matter of Plan 9, anyway. Yes, you're right, they are not scientific. I forgot the smiley at the end --> :) plan9 may not be about speed, but it's so much fun to measure the lack thereof... after all I wasn't going to send my results to the list, but since the GCC discussion started, I decided it was a nice example of its use... The least of my desires was to judge plan9 based on the results of this 'benchmark'.. andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 14:47:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 14:47:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23142 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 14:47:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23138 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 14:47:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 14:47:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2BBE5199B3; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 00:47:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fsc.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fsc.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.2.3]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8C4EE19992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 00:46:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from imgw1.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (ons-imgw1 [192.168.1.66]) by fsc.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h165kbqd010657 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 22:46:37 -0700 Received: from csl (csl [136.159.5.22]) by imgw1.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h165kZMQ006374 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 22:46:36 -0700 From: andrey mirtchovski X-X-Sender: mirtchov@csl To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavis-milter (http://amavis.org/) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=7.5 tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.43 Subject: [9fans] X11.iso.bz2 decompress fails Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 22:46:35 -0700 (MST) both on sources and downloaded from the web: % bunzip2 < X11.iso.bz2 > /tmp/X11.iso bunzip2: decompress failed % both cases create a 4903081 bytes binary. I ran replica/pull a few hours earlier andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 16:02:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 16:02:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24781 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 16:02:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24777 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 16:02:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 16:02:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 69968199BC; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 02:02:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from XMAIL.asuch.cas.cz (clusterb.asuch.cas.cz [147.231.136.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 015C919991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 02:01:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from picture ([147.231.139.42]) by XMAIL.asuch.cas.cz over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Thu, 6 Feb 2003 08:01:16 +0100 Message-ID: <001f01c2cdad$8b279aa0$2a8be793@gli.cas.cz> From: "peter a. cejchan" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001C_01C2CDB5.ECBCB540" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Feb 2003 07:01:16.0898 (UTC) FILETIME=[8B3ECC20:01C2CDAD] Subject: [9fans] pls. HELP: pq guru needed Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 08:01:16 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C2CDB5.ECBCB540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable friends, after some initial learning now i'm quite happy with my ev databases, = however, could somebody show me how to i) match inequalities using pq ii) combine matching criteria using "and", "or" ? tx, ++pac. --- Odchoz=ED zpr=E1va neobsahuje viry. Zkontrolov=E1no antivirov=FDm syst=E9mem AVG (http://www.grisoft.cz). Verze: 6.0.449 / Virov=E1 b=E1ze: 251 - datum vyd=E1n=ED: 27.1.2003 ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C2CDB5.ECBCB540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
friends,
 
after some initial learning now i'm = quite happy=20 with my ev databases, however,
could somebody show me how = to
 
i)    match inequalities = using=20 pq
ii)    combine matching = criteria=20 using "and", "or" ?
 
tx,
++pac.
 
 

---
Odchoz=ED zpr=E1va = neobsahuje=20 viry.
Zkontrolov=E1no antivirov=FDm syst=E9mem AVG (http://www.grisoft.cz).
Verze: = 6.0.449 /=20 Virov=E1 b=E1ze: 251 - datum vyd=E1n=ED: = 27.1.2003
------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C2CDB5.ECBCB540-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 16:56:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 16:56:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26077 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 16:56:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26070 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 16:56:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 16:56:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 448D019999; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 02:56:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from XMAIL.asuch.cas.cz (clusterb.asuch.cas.cz [147.231.136.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6EA5C19980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 02:55:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from picture ([147.231.139.42]) by XMAIL.asuch.cas.cz over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Thu, 6 Feb 2003 08:55:42 +0100 Message-ID: <003101c2cdb5$256e5e80$2a8be793@gli.cas.cz> From: "peter a. cejchan" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002E_01C2CDBD.870CA0E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Feb 2003 07:55:42.0289 (UTC) FILETIME=[2591EC10:01C2CDB5] Subject: [9fans] bitmaps --> troff ? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 08:55:41 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C2CDBD.870CA0E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hi all, and sorry for this stupid off-topic question: can I put bitmap images into troff documents? if so, how? tx, ++pac. --- Odchoz=ED zpr=E1va neobsahuje viry. Zkontrolov=E1no antivirov=FDm syst=E9mem AVG (http://www.grisoft.cz). Verze: 6.0.449 / Virov=E1 b=E1ze: 251 - datum vyd=E1n=ED: 27.1.2003 ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C2CDBD.870CA0E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
hi all,
 
and sorry for this stupid off-topic=20 question:
can I put bitmap images into troff = documents? if=20 so, how?
 
tx,
++pac.
 
 

---
Odchoz=ED zpr=E1va = neobsahuje=20 viry.
Zkontrolov=E1no antivirov=FDm syst=E9mem AVG (http://www.grisoft.cz).
Verze: = 6.0.449 /=20 Virov=E1 b=E1ze: 251 - datum vyd=E1n=ED: = 27.1.2003
------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C2CDBD.870CA0E0-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 17:21:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 17:21:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26724 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 17:21:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26720 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 17:21:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 17:21:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BFACD199B6; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 03:21:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9BBE719980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 03:20:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.7) with ESMTP id 457627 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 06 Feb 2003 02:20:09 -0600 Message-ID: <1d7f689c4665130393375bf8f2340a82@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bitmaps --> troff ? From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <003101c2cdb5$256e5e80$2a8be793@gli.cas.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-lloavaxtfqjtwgmejwjhvnkqwe" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 00:19:41 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-lloavaxtfqjtwgmejwjhvnkqwe Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Use lp -dstdout to turn them into postscript, then see mpictures(6). -rob --upas-lloavaxtfqjtwgmejwjhvnkqwe Content-Type: text/html Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from killy.mspring.net ([207.69.231.40] verified) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.7) with ESMTP-TLS id 457608 for rob@mail.mightycheese.com; Thu, 06 Feb 2003 01:56:15 -0600 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by killy.mspring.net (8.12.5/8.8.6) with ESMTP id h167uEXg043843 for ; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 02:56:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2040419992; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 02:56:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from XMAIL.asuch.cas.cz (clusterb.asuch.cas.cz [147.231.136.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6EA5C19980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 02:55:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from picture ([147.231.139.42]) by XMAIL.asuch.cas.cz over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Thu, 6 Feb 2003 08:55:42 +0100 Message-ID: <003101c2cdb5$256e5e80$2a8be793@gli.cas.cz> From: "peter a. cejchan" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002E_01C2CDBD.870CA0E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Feb 2003 07:55:42.0289 (UTC) FILETIME=[2591EC10:01C2CDB5] Subject: [9fans] bitmaps --> troff ? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 08:55:41 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C2CDBD.870CA0E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hi all, and sorry for this stupid off-topic question: can I put bitmap images into troff documents? if so, how? tx, ++pac. --- Odchoz=ED zpr=E1va neobsahuje viry. Zkontrolov=E1no antivirov=FDm syst=E9mem AVG (http://www.grisoft.cz). Verze: 6.0.449 / Virov=E1 b=E1ze: 251 - datum vyd=E1n=ED: 27.1.2003 ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C2CDBD.870CA0E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
hi all,
 
and sorry for this stupid off-topic=20 question:
can I put bitmap images into troff = documents? if=20 so, how?
 
tx,
++pac.
 
 

---
Odchoz=ED zpr=E1va = neobsahuje=20 viry.
Zkontrolov=E1no antivirov=FDm syst=E9mem AVG (http://www.grisoft.cz).
Verze: = 6.0.449 /=20 Virov=E1 b=E1ze: 251 - datum vyd=E1n=ED: = 27.1.2003
------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C2CDBD.870CA0E0-- --upas-lloavaxtfqjtwgmejwjhvnkqwe-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 18:57:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 18:57:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28466 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 18:57:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28462 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 18:57:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 18:57:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EB99419999; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 04:57:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D1E101998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 04:56:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18giZd-0004PQ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 06 Feb 2003 09:44:01 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3E41DCC3.8000203@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <42bd3c02f2fd05eb006f66509661ce0b@plan9.escet.urjc.es>, Subject: Re: [9fans] pic generators? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 09:40:59 GMT Sam wrote: > I don't mind learning pic if it was designed to be human > writable. I just need to be told that. Pic's language is pretty easy to learn. If you have access to cip or xcip they were the original GUIs for laying out pic images. There are reports that xfig can output in cip format. Many preprocessors output pic files (e.g. grap, dag, chem). Grap is fairly general, while dag (later dotty et al.) lays out graph structures and chem formats molecular diagrams. These can exploit pic's programmability, which isn't quite as powerful as PostScript but is much easier to use. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 19:13:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 19:13:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28868 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 19:13:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28863 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 19:13:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 19:13:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 45579199B3; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 05:13:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail2.snellwilcox.com (mail2.snellwilcox.com [195.173.15.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 818C219980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 05:12:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from 127.0.0.1 by mail2.snellwilcox.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Thu, 06 Feb 2003 10:12:50 -0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com Received: from ccMail by snellwilcox.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.51.00.11) id 4073307862; Thu, 06 Feb 2003 10:12:49 +0000 Importance: normal Priority: normal Message-Id: <4073307862@snellwilcox.com> X-MIME-Engine: v0.90 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Id: <4073307862-1@snellwilcox.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] X11.iso.bz2 temporary alternative source Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 10:11:26 +0000 Hi, The version of X11.iso.bz2 on sources appears to be munged. It should get fixed soon but if anyone is desperate, email me directly and I shall put the ISO on an ftp server. steve dot simon at snellwilcox dot com -Steve From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 19:53:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 19:53:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29626 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 19:53:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29622 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 19:53:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 19:53:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4365F199B3; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 05:53:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lcd.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 7552719992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 05:52:04 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 9843 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 10:58:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO kike) (192.168.1.101) by 192.168.1.102 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 10:58:38 -0000 Message-ID: <012401c2cdcd$c86335d0$6501a8c0@kike> From: "matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <1d7f689c4665130393375bf8f2340a82@mightycheese.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] bitmaps --> troff ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:52:03 -0000 html email Rob! good job this isn't the qmail mailing list, your inbox would have 100 "NO HTML TO THE LIST" mails sitting it it right now mightycheese indeed 8) ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C2CDBD.870CA0E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 21:31:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 21:31:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31238 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 21:31:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31234 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 21:31:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 21:31:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8504B19999; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 07:31:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lcd.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 535601998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 07:30:40 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 9988 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 12:37:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO kike) (192.168.1.101) by 192.168.1.102 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 12:37:16 -0000 Message-ID: <017601c2cddb$8e64d560$6501a8c0@kike> From: "matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <51bc2f6c8ea871baffdc15d5d6433b51@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Webbrowser - porting mozilla MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:30:38 -0000 Mozilla is the name for the renderer and the User interface The renderer itself is called NGLayout http://www.mozilla.org/newlayout/ Porting instructions are here : http://www.mozilla.org/newlayout/ngport.html Reading through them suggests it wouldn't be too hard - ymmv [a lot probably] Mind you the bottom of that pages says : Last modified January 14, 1999. m From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 21:37:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 21:37:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31386 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 21:37:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31382 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 21:37:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 21:37:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 705A9199BC; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 07:37:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 15C921998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 07:36:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp ([61.211.130.19]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 21:36:36 JST 2003 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Subject: [9fans] A question on fossil Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 21:36:36 +0900 Hello, I have a question on /adm/users of fossil. It seems that the first field of /adm/users of fossil is same as the second field. I don't know whether it must be same or not. If it must be same, why did you make the format so redundant? If it must not be same, what is the intent of usage? Kenji Arisawa From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 22:05:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 22:05:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31797 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 22:05:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31793 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 22:05:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 22:05:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F9BA199E3; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 08:05:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE735199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 08:04:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18glXW-0000hI-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 06 Feb 2003 12:54:02 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Ian Broster <9list@broster.co.uk> Message-ID: <20030206124852.1bbf9406.9list@broster.co.uk> Organization: The University of York, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <51bc2f6c8ea871baffdc15d5d6433b51@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Webbrowser - porting mozilla Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:52:51 GMT > Porting instructions are here : > http://www.mozilla.org/newlayout/ngport.html > Mind you the bottom of that pages says : Last modified January 14, > 1999. And at the top: Last updated 8-July-98 ... ian From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 22:05:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 22:05:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31809 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 22:05:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31805 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 22:05:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 22:05:38 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4AA9E199E8; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 08:05:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 71D18199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 08:04:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18glXW-0000hC-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 06 Feb 2003 12:54:02 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Aharon Robbins Message-ID: Organization: Pioneer Consulting, Ltd. References: , <20030205163158.GA52524@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] pic generators? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:52:39 GMT In article <20030205163158.GA52524@ix.netcom.com>, Jon Snader <9fans@cse.psu.edu> wrote: >Rich Stevens used raw pic for all his books. He posted some interesting >examples of how he used it at >along with the pic macros that he used. > >In addition to the excellent groff pic manual that Eric Raymond wrote, >you might also want to look at the chapter on pic in _Unix Text Processing_. >You can find (the recreated) UTP at . > >Jon Snader Since we're at it, there's also www.troff.org, which has a pointer to the recreated Unix Text Processing. The scanned bitmaps of the original are available from O'Reilly. That UTP is back from the dead is a wonderful development, at least for dinosaurs like me. Arnold -- Aharon (Arnold) Robbins --- Pioneer Consulting Ltd. arnold@skeeve.com P.O. Box 354 Home Phone: +972 8 979-0381 Fax: +1 928 569 9018 Nof Ayalon Cell Phone: +972 51 297-545 D.N. Shimshon 99785 ISRAEL From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 22:06:12 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 22:06:12 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31838 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 22:06:12 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31834 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 22:06:11 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 22:06:11 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B5B8619A04; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 08:05:20 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 49148199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 08:04:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2bc7b99b21f1b2c6f489bbc5a5dd1266@caldo.demon.co.uk> From: Charles Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A question on fossil In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-hqjmbtetynnwksotvnbjqgqhbt" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:11:56 0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-hqjmbtetynnwksotvnbjqgqhbt Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit see fossilcons(8). here's an extract: ... The user table records a mapping between uids and unames, as well as recording the leader and members of each group. A uid is a string naming a user or group and stored in the on-disk data structures. A uname is the string naming a user or group and used in 9P protocol messages. There is a distinction so that unames can be safely reused, even though uids cannot. ... --upas-hqjmbtetynnwksotvnbjqgqhbt Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 1044535241:10:25665:1; Thu, 06 Feb 2003 12:40:41 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1121668; 6 Feb 2003 12:40 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 705A9199BC; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 07:37:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 15C921998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 07:36:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp ([61.211.130.19]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 21:36:36 JST 2003 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Subject: [9fans] A question on fossil Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 21:36:36 +0900 Hello, I have a question on /adm/users of fossil. It seems that the first field of /adm/users of fossil is same as the second field. I don't know whether it must be same or not. If it must be same, why did you make the format so redundant? If it must not be same, what is the intent of usage? Kenji Arisawa --upas-hqjmbtetynnwksotvnbjqgqhbt-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 23:20:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 23:20:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 720 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 23:20:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 716 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 23:20:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 23:20:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E485B19992; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 09:20:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4524819991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 09:19:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Webbrowser From: C H Forsyth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 14:22:16 0000 >>It seems like Charon >>is still the best bet for now, though I do wish it were >>easier to integrate with the rest of the Plan 9 environment. that's our eventual aim. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 23:22:14 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 23:22:14 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 782 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 23:22:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 778 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 23:22:13 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 23:22:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3F63F199E4; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 09:22:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (huygens.org [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EFAFF199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 09:21:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Webbrowser In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 09:21:46 -0500 Are you actually going to try to make a translation to C, or perhaps a free standing Limbo compiler? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 6 23:25:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 23:25:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 812 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Feb 2003 23:25:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 808 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 23:25:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 23:25:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CB2DF1998C; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 09:25:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (huygens.org [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B704199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 09:24:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <981e9fab3325f419f267dbb5e9f4937d@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-dheyuathxhjyqktvmbpkrfkayb" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 09:24:11 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-dheyuathxhjyqktvmbpkrfkayb Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I looked at at the benchmarks. There are lots of times() calls in inner loops that are very low cost in Unix but pretty expensive in Plan 9. Why not do a run under iostats and post the results. It might be enlightening. --upas-dheyuathxhjyqktvmbpkrfkayb Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Feb 5 23:18:21 EST 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Wed Feb 5 23:18:18 EST 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A8DBF19991; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 23:18:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fsc.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fsc.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.2.3]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D5B9C1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 23:17:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from imgw1.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (ons-imgw1 [192.168.1.66]) by fsc.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h164H0qd027839 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 21:17:00 -0700 Received: from csl (csl [136.159.5.22]) by imgw1.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h164GxMQ001840 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 21:16:59 -0700 From: andrey mirtchovski X-X-Sender: mirtchov@csl To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavis-milter (http://amavis.org/) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.6 required=7.5 tests=IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.43 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 21:16:59 -0700 (MST) I've actually used gcc to compile something -- a simple cpu and memory benchmark called 'ubench'. I strongly desire such that the 'my OS is faster' flamewars continue on this list, that's why i'm posting a URL to the ubench source and compilation instructions for Plan9 (using the GCC3.0 port). Unfortunately I couldn't be bothered rewriting the benchmark for the native P9 compiler, so 'my compiler is faster' flame warriors will be left dissatisfied. The URL for ubench is: http://www.phystech.com/download/ubench.html to compile under plan9: % gunzip < ubench-0.32.tar.gz | tar xv % cd ubench-0.32 % # edit ubench.c and comment out syslog.h on line 25 % gnu/gsh $ gcc -o ubench signals.c cpubench.c membench.c ubench.c (alternatively, to compile with optimizations, do:) $ gcc -o ubench signals.c cpubench.c membench.c ubench.c -O2 $ ^D % strip ubench % ubench here are the highly scientific results I got: Celeron 900mhz (average ~40,000 in FreeBSD 4.7 w/ gcc2.95), the machine is a standalone 9pcdisk/kfs terminal: no optimizations: % ubench Unix Benchmark Utility v.0.3 Copyright (C) July, 1999 PhysTech, Inc. Author: Sergei Viznyuk http://www.phystech.com/download/ubench.html Plan9 1 0 generic pcdisk Ubench CPU: 23072 Ubench MEM: 14221 -------------------- Ubench AVG: 18646 % with -O2: % ubench Unix Benchmark Utility v.0.3 Copyright (C) July, 1999 PhysTech, Inc. Author: Sergei Viznyuk http://www.phystech.com/download/ubench.html Plan9 1 0 generic pcdisk Ubench CPU: 24992 Ubench MEM: 18097 -------------------- Ubench AVG: 21544 % Pentium 4, 2Ghz (average ~60,000 on FreeBSD 4.7 w/ gcc2.95, now the machine has FBSD 5.0 w/ gcc3.2 on it, but is booted in p9 so I couldn't test :), the machine is running as an auth/cpu/kfs server: cpu% ubench Unix Benchmark Utility v.0.3 Copyright (C) July, 1999 PhysTech, Inc. Author: Sergei Viznyuk http://www.phystech.com/download/ubench.html Plan9 1 0 generic pcauth Ubench CPU: 39110 Ubench MEM: 33350 -------------------- Ubench AVG: 36230 cpu% with -O2: cpu% ubench Unix Benchmark Utility v.0.3 Copyright (C) July, 1999 PhysTech, Inc. Author: Sergei Viznyuk http://www.phystech.com/download/ubench.html Plan9 1 0 generic pcauth Ubench CPU: 43528 Ubench MEM: 44170 -------------------- Ubench AVG: 43849 cpu% And something else: I just checked how ubench is compiled on freebsd (what optimizations are used) and gave the same arguments to plan9's gcc. The result is: $ gcc -o ubench signals.c cpubench.c membench.c ubench.c -O2 -Wall '-malign-loops=2' '-malign-jumps=2' '-malign-functions=2' -fomit-frame-pointer -s cpu% strip ubench cpu% ubench Unix Benchmark Utility v.0.3 Copyright (C) July, 1999 PhysTech, Inc. Author: Sergei Viznyuk http://www.phystech.com/download/ubench.html Plan9 1 0 generic pcauth Ubench CPU: 43863 Ubench MEM: 44170 -------------------- Ubench AVG: 44016 cpu% as with everything, those results should not be taken too seriously :) andrey --upas-dheyuathxhjyqktvmbpkrfkayb-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 00:07:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 00:07:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1396 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 00:07:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1392 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 00:07:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 00:07:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 516F2199DD; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:07:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 7F29619991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:06:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <59c00f9e65db1057ff57bc688d76166c@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Webbrowser From: C H Forsyth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-frdfmdgaxarzcphkgbfeqrahsg" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 15:09:11 0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-frdfmdgaxarzcphkgbfeqrahsg Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i suppose it amounts to a Third Way-- make Inferno applications such as Charon fit in much better, or even at all, on most hosted platforms-- and Plan 9 being the closest fit seemed a reasonable place to start. --upas-frdfmdgaxarzcphkgbfeqrahsg Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@vitanuova.com id 1044541536:20:08745:80; Thu, 06 Feb 2003 14:25:36 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2123141; 6 Feb 2003 14:25 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 21F3B199E3; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 09:22:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (huygens.org [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EFAFF199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 09:21:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Webbrowser In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 09:21:46 -0500 Are you actually going to try to make a translation to C, or perhaps a free standing Limbo compiler? --upas-frdfmdgaxarzcphkgbfeqrahsg-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 00:16:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 00:16:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1520 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 00:16:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1516 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 00:16:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 00:16:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4F675199B3; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:16:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D43401998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:15:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h16FFQ9i015150 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 08:15:26 -0700 Received: (qmail 9591 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 08:15:25 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 08:15:25 -0700 Received: (qmail 10574 invoked by uid 3499); 6 Feb 2003 08:15:25 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 08:15:25 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 08:15:25 -0700 (MST) On Thu, 6 Feb 2003 okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote: > I think the speed is not the main matter of Plan 9, anyway. My memory is at some point it was. An intro by Honeyman at the '89 Usenix for a Plan 9 speaker ended with "... and he can't believe how slow X11 is". Gosh, was it even called Plan 9 then? Is my memory wrong? I think it was starting to be called Plan 9. Did speed stop being a goal when Plan 9 got slower? Personally, I like speedy OSes. I do recall an Infocomm in 1996 where a speaker from Bell Labs (Holmdel) presented numbers showing FreeBSD running 10% faster than Plan 9 for some TCP measurements. I was surprised, as until that time I had assumed Plan 9 would be faster. So had the speaker. So had, according to the speaker, the folks at Murray Hill. Nobody expected FreeBSD to win that race. Side note: at some point (late 70s) I think I used just about every OS that ran on a PDP11 (including the Pascal-based one from Hansen, not the boy-band, but Per Brinch). For speed, V6 Unix always crushed them all, including the vendor OSes which were supposed to be so much superior (e.g. RSX). Speed was one distinguishing feature of Unix, the others being better design, code, capabilities, and, oh, everything else. We know Plan 9 has the better design, code, capabilities, etc. It would be nice at some point to be able to say that speed is a distinguishing feature of Plan 9. Is it fundamentally impossible? ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 00:31:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 00:31:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1692 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 00:31:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1688 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 00:31:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 00:31:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 85FDE199E8; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:31:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fsc.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fsc.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.2.3]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 66B73199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:30:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from imgw1.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (ons-imgw1 [192.168.1.66]) by fsc.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h16FUJqd011503 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 08:30:19 -0700 Received: from csl (csl [136.159.5.22]) by imgw1.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h16FUIMQ028407 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 08:30:18 -0700 From: andrey mirtchovski X-X-Sender: mirtchov@csl To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] In-Reply-To: <981e9fab3325f419f267dbb5e9f4937d@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavis-milter (http://amavis.org/) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.4 required=7.5 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.43 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 08:30:18 -0700 (MST) this is iostats: read 238369 bytes, 13.02132 Kb/sec write 1266 bytes, .4715208 Kb/sec protocol 659280 bytes, 28.10126 Kb/sec rpc 8876 count Message Count Low High Time Averg in out version 1 0 0 0 0 ms 19 19 bytes attach 1 0 0 0 0 ms 25 20 bytes flush 1 10000000 0 0 0 ms 9 7 bytes walk 2544 0 153 551 0 ms 78729 88992 bytes open 1248 0 117 785 0 ms 14976 29928 bytes read 1277 0 11179 17877 13 ms 29371 252416 bytes write 15 0 686 2622 174 ms 1611 165 bytes clunk 2542 0 44 379 0 ms 27962 17794 bytes stat 1247 0 50 697 0 ms 13717 103426 bytes Opens Reads (bytes) Writes (bytes) File 1233 1233 88776 0 0 /dev/cputime 1 0 0 1 5 /proc/10281/note 1 0 0 1 5 /proc/10282/note 1 0 0 1 5 /proc/10287/note 2 0 0 2 9 /proc/10289/note 1 0 0 1 5 /proc/10295/note 1 1 172 0 0 /adm/users 1 2 7 0 0 (stdin) 1 0 0 7 1227 (stdout) 1 0 0 2 10 (stderr) 1 2 579 0 0 /rc/lib/rcmain 1 24 91459 0 0 /bin/rc 1 15 57376 0 0 /usr/bootes/ubench-0.32/ubench and this is what kprof has to say: total: 492060 in kernel text: 56450 outside kernel text: 435610 KTZERO 80100000 ms % sym 50180 88.8 halt 3210 5.6 memmove 420 0.7 savagewaitidle 410 0.7 i8259isr 350 0.6 inb 250 0.4 drawclip 150 0.2 runproc 130 0.2 wbflush 120 0.2 memset 110 0.1 chardraw 70 0.1 rectclip 60 0.1 memdraw 50 0.0 drawmesg 50 0.0 convD2M 50 0.0 strlen 40 0.0 syscall 30 0.0 drawgoodname 30 0.0 _syscallintr 30 0.0 dstflush 30 0.0 memimagedraw 30 0.0 drawreplxy interesting tidbit -- iostats filled up the memory on both machines I tried it on (128 and 512 MB), it's fun to look at in 'stats' adnrey On Thu, 6 Feb 2003, David Presotto wrote: > I looked at at the benchmarks. There are lots of times() calls in > inner loops that are very low cost in Unix but pretty expensive in > Plan 9. Why not do a run under iostats and post the results. It > might be enlightening. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 00:40:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 00:40:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1776 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 00:40:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1772 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 00:40:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 00:40:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 68DCC19A0C; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:40:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from dirty.research.bell-labs.com (ns1.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0785C199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:39:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from scummy.research.bell-labs.com (H-135-104-2-10.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.10]) by dirty.research.bell-labs.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h16FdWhN044711 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:39:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from bronx.dnrc.bell-labs.com (bronx.dnrc.bell-labs.com [135.180.160.8]) by scummy.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h16FdLI33962 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:39:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from aelf (alef [135.180.240.78]) by bronx.dnrc.bell-labs.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA20081 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:39:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <006e01c2cdf5$eb2187c0$4ef0b487@bl.belllabs.com> From: "Tharaneedharan Vilwanathan" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:39:21 -0500 Hi, I like the current implementation of Plan 9. It is sufficiently fast, stable, clean and simple to understand. If there is a severe performance problem, someone always takes care of it. I wouldnt worry about the 10% performance difference between Plan 9 implementation and FreeBSD or Linux. What matters is whether we can tolerate the performance loss. As long as my apps like acme, sam, charon, etc run sufficiently fast, why would I worry? I also like the clean screen when Plan 9 (rio) starts: it is like starting with a clean slate. Regards dharani > On Thu, 6 Feb 2003 okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote: > > > I think the speed is not the main matter of Plan 9, anyway. > > My memory is at some point it was. An intro by Honeyman at the '89 Usenix > for a Plan 9 speaker ended with "... and he can't believe how slow X11 > is". Gosh, was it even called Plan 9 then? Is my memory wrong? I think it > was starting to be called Plan 9. > > Did speed stop being a goal when Plan 9 got slower? Personally, I like > speedy OSes. I do recall an Infocomm in 1996 where a speaker from Bell > Labs (Holmdel) presented numbers showing FreeBSD running 10% faster than > Plan 9 for some TCP measurements. I was surprised, as until that time I > had assumed Plan 9 would be faster. So had the speaker. So had, according > to the speaker, the folks at Murray Hill. Nobody expected FreeBSD to win > that race. > > Side note: at some point (late 70s) I think I used just about every OS > that ran on a PDP11 (including the Pascal-based one from Hansen, not the > boy-band, but Per Brinch). For speed, V6 Unix always crushed them all, > including the vendor OSes which were supposed to be so much superior (e.g. > RSX). Speed was one distinguishing feature of Unix, the others being > better design, code, capabilities, and, oh, everything else. > > We know Plan 9 has the better design, code, capabilities, etc. It would be > nice at some point to be able to say that speed is a distinguishing > feature of Plan 9. Is it fundamentally impossible? > > ron > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 00:47:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 00:47:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1880 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 00:47:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1876 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 00:47:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 00:47:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 90F4F199E4; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:47:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 26BF319991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:46:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h16Fjx9i028468 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 08:45:59 -0700 Received: (qmail 9849 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 08:45:59 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 08:45:59 -0700 Received: (qmail 10903 invoked by uid 3499); 6 Feb 2003 08:45:59 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 08:45:59 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] In-Reply-To: <006e01c2cdf5$eb2187c0$4ef0b487@bl.belllabs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 08:45:59 -0700 (MST) On Thu, 6 Feb 2003, Tharaneedharan Vilwanathan wrote: > I wouldnt worry about the 10% performance difference between Plan 9 > implementation and FreeBSD or Linux. No, my note said "10% on one TCP benchmark in 1996 which Plan 9 was expected to win". That's actually a bit different from "10% performance difference". 1996 was a long time ago; freebsd just keeps getting faster. The real question for me is whether the speed difference is fundamental or not. I don't know enough to know. It's an issue here because I've been pushing Plan 9 as a possible future OS for DOE use (assuming we can get the legal mess fixed), due to its really nice architecture. But if it is not ever going to be competitive performance-wise with *nux* then that is a huge problem. If it is fixable, well, there will be money to fix it at some point (again, assuming Lucent can provide a sane license agreement). ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 01:32:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 01:32:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2357 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 01:32:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2353 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 01:32:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 01:32:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7D9C6199BF; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:32:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 590BD1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:31:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.7) with ESMTP id 457841 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 06 Feb 2003 10:31:33 -0600 Message-ID: <85bdcd8554551ec025aaeebef2e83904@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 08:31:04 -0800 Plan 9 was really not designed with performance in mind. It was designed to push some Unix ideas in new directions, to build an operating system with networking at its core instead of an add-on bag, to design a system interface that would make window systems easy to write, and to be clean code. I think it's that last point that might make you think Plan 9 was designed for speed. Execute less code, run faster. But to get those 10% tweaks everybody fusses over, to the detriment of just about everything in computing, you need to tune and tune and fuss and tweak and hack, and that does not leave you with clean code. Plan 9 is fundamentally efficient in the sense that its interfaces are clean and the code is modest in scope, but it will not win most performance races that depend on benchmarks. On the other hand, the kernel compiles in a few seconds on a modest modern computer. The entire tree - everything - builds in a few minutes (and by far the largest piece of that time is compiling applications written outside an imported, such as gs). Now that is performance I care about. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 01:38:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 01:38:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2413 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 01:38:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2409 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 01:38:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 01:38:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AEE2719980; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:38:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 546B519980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:37:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.7) with ESMTP id 457853 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 06 Feb 2003 10:37:02 -0600 Message-ID: <22f1b671b97f74a6cbbf804cb261d1aa@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <85bdcd8554551ec025aaeebef2e83904@mightycheese.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 08:36:34 -0800 Oh, and another thing - we ran very few benchmarks or efficiency tests over the years. When we did, it was because someone asked us, because we had some big new component (like a new network interface) we wanted to try out, or because we needed to have numbers to publish a paper. In other words, making measurements to test performance was never a priority, and that means the measurements themselves were never a priority. I'm not saying running fast is bad, I'm just saying we tried to write a smooth, efficient system by design, but we were not willing (or even thinking) to make our code ugly to achieve ultimate speed. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 01:57:06 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 01:57:06 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2682 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 01:57:00 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2678 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 01:56:59 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 01:56:59 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F58A1998A; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:56:41 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F35E119991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:55:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h16GtMLp000828 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 09:55:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca) Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with ESMTP id h16GtMBT000825 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 09:55:22 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20030206094747.N535@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] gnubin.tgz weirdness Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 09:55:22 -0700 (MST) hi, I installed the gnubin.tgz file from sources last night (the same time when X11.iso.bz2 was failing) and even though in uncompressed and installed fine, I couldn't get 'make' to recognize a single make file. gnu/gcc would work fine, but make kept complaining about 'no rule to make target and no makefile found'. if ran with 'make -f Makefile' it worked. has anyone else experienced that? andrey ps: Russ, were you trying ape/psh or gnu/gsh for links? gcc compiled most everything fine, though there was some configure weirdness such as trying to include (the exact monstrosity that returns a false positive is: for ac_hdr in sys/cygwin.h do ac_safe=`echo "$ac_hdr" | sed 'y%./+-%__p_%'` echo $ac_n "checking for $ac_hdr""... $ac_c" 1>&6 echo "configure:1934: checking for $ac_hdr" >&5 if eval "test \"`echo '$''{'ac_cv_header_$ac_safe'+set}'`\" = set"; then echo $ac_n "(cached) $ac_c" 1>&6 else cat > conftest.$ac_ext < EOF and so on, and so on... just for those that needed to know :) this is not related to the make problem, as I have an older, working gcc on a different machine. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 01:57:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 01:57:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2694 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 01:57:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2690 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 01:57:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 01:57:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B2ED199EC; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:57:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lcd.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A35701998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:56:07 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 10882 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 17:02:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO kike) (192.168.1.101) by 192.168.1.102 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 17:02:49 -0000 Message-ID: <03a101c2ce00$a3c16e80$6501a8c0@kike> From: "matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <22f1b671b97f74a6cbbf804cb261d1aa@mightycheese.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 16:56:06 -0000 As the introduction [http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sys/doc/9.html] says : Producing a more efficient way to run the old UNIX warhorses is empty engineering; we were more interested in whether the new ideas suggested by the architecture of the underlying system encourage a more effective way of working. I like the approach that believes CPU cycles can be bought cheaper than developer minutes. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 02:07:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 02:07:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3015 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 02:07:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3011 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 02:07:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 02:07:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EBFDA199D7; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:07:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from edoras.nas.com (edoras.nas.com [206.63.100.8]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 28F0519991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:06:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from nas.com (unknown [164.116.190.46]) by edoras.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6953EB6C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 09:06:20 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3E42960C.2060008@nas.com> From: Jack Johnson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.2a) Gecko/20020910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, es MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <85bdcd8554551ec025aaeebef2e83904@mightycheese.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Re: Clean Code & Performance Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 09:06:20 -0800 rob pike, esq. wrote: > But to get those > 10% tweaks everybody fusses over, to the detriment of just about > everything in computing, you need to tune and tune and fuss and tweak > and hack, and that does not leave you with clean code. There's this interesting harmonic convergence in the stuff I've been reading lately, and I just thought I'd share. There's some interesting stuff going on with the Squeak VM in regards to performance, and in general people are happy with the performance improvements, but there has been a lot of discussion about what it takes to eke out another 10%, and how much of it can hurt keeping the system clean and straightforward. Because some of the Squeakers see strong similarities in Squeak/Smalltalk and Forth, there has been some discussion about rewriting the VM in Forth to get closer to the machine. Chuck Moore, Forth's creator, talks a *lot* about how he feels good Forth is nearly non-portable, because if you're really that close to the metal you're taking advantage of that particular platform's optimizations and using them to your advantage. His feeling seems to be that (in his environment) if you're knowledgeable about the problem then the coding is, relatively speaking, the easy part, that the solution is the portable part and not necessarily the code. I just find it interesting that in this third yet-unrelated thread we have this discussion of cleanliness/portability vs. performance, and how often they're at odds with each other. But, as Rob points out, there are different ways to measure performance, and something invaluable I always take away from the discussions here is how a simple solution can often be much more effective than a hard-number performance improvement. But, I'm rambling again. Nothing worse than newbies rambling. Hopefully you've taken the time to just filter me out. -Jack From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 02:12:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 02:12:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3100 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 02:12:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3096 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 02:12:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 02:12:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6EFA719991; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:12:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 000EA1998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:11:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h16HBXgp006998 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:11:33 -0700 Received: (qmail 10904 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 10:11:32 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 10:11:32 -0700 Received: (qmail 11408 invoked by uid 3499); 6 Feb 2003 10:11:32 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 10:11:32 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] In-Reply-To: <03a101c2ce00$a3c16e80$6501a8c0@kike> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:11:32 -0700 (MST) On Thu, 6 Feb 2003, matt wrote: > I like the approach that believes CPU cycles can be bought cheaper than > developer minutes. that's fine if your idea of the world is developer minutes. But there's this other thing called "the guys who pay the bill minutes", i.e. (l)users, and they are less willing to take slower systems. Anyway, I am not taking exception to the decisions behind Plan 9 *in it's current state*, I am merely asking: now that we have a model for an OS that looks like a far better model than what *nux* offers, can we speed that OS up to be competitive without destroying it? Or is what we have about as good as it will get? ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 02:23:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 02:23:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3212 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 02:23:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3208 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 02:23:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 02:23:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 03FE419A0C; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:23:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ns.dbSystems.com (ns.dbsystems.com [208.217.210.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1FA1519A17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:22:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from kds (dhcp2.eot.dbSystems.com [204.178.76.101]) by ns.dbSystems.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with SMTP id h16H0UN09387 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:00:31 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from gdb@dbSystems.com) Message-ID: <01be01c2ce04$8c6cb240$654cb2cc@kds> From: "David Butler" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:23:09 -0600 Forgive the length of this response, but I've been thinking about this for some time. > The real question for me is whether the speed difference is fundamental or > not. I don't know enough to know. My opinion is the problem is fundamental but fixable. The fundamental problem is the synchronous nature of the API. This is where I think Plan 9 has not gone far enough breaking with tradition. Even though ANSI and POSIX are given the finger, it is only slightly so. The underlying system is very asynchronous (9P messages have tags to correlate replies) and there is a lot of overlap allowed from multiple processes, but any one application is slow. Take for example the command sed -e script output. It is not hard to imagine the flow of 9P messages that stream from the system to fulfill this command. Each message is synchronous. This is why most of the time in execution of this command is in "halt". But this is not an OS or protocol issue because if 100 of these commands are executed in parallel, the real time for completion is quite a bit less than 100 times the real time for one. There is an optimization in the file server code to try to assist the single thread case that has to be removed to get good performance from the multi thread case. That optimization is the attempt of the file server to fill the cache with some number of blocks ahead of a file being read. This, like any cache policy, should not be in a file server but in the application. LRU is not always the best way. This is why database systems bypass the UNIX buffer cache and use raw disks. I have changed my file server to use the cache only for its needs and let applications create their own policy in their local address space. Using the current API to get performance sed would need to be rewritten with multiple threads which launch parallel reads and writes. Since it does not reuse the data after it has modified it, it has no cache needs. Because of these thoughts and efforts, my system runs a little slower than the average Plan 9 system in casual use, but the applications I have written for performance are very fast and can utilize every resource I can throw at them. So, I know the API needs to allow more I/O concurrency and cache policy management. I do not know enough yet how that looks. I'm interested in any ideas. David From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 02:26:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 02:26:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3245 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 02:26:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3241 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 02:26:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 02:26:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D661719A25; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:26:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from crufty.research.bell-labs.com (crufty.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A6FEA1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:25:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from grubby.research.bell-labs.com (H-135-104-2-9.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.9]) by crufty.research.bell-labs.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h16HPbLI010803 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:25:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from bronx.dnrc.bell-labs.com (bronx.dnrc.bell-labs.com [135.180.160.8]) by grubby.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h16HPSY59215 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:25:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from aelf (alef [135.180.240.78]) by bronx.dnrc.bell-labs.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA25171 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:25:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001d01c2ce04$be41f5a0$4ef0b487@bl.belllabs.com> From: "Tharaneedharan Vilwanathan" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:25:28 -0500 Hi, > > I like the approach that believes CPU cycles can be bought cheaper than > > developer minutes. > > that's fine if your idea of the world is developer minutes. But there's > this other thing called "the guys who pay the bill minutes", i.e. > (l)users, and they are less willing to take slower systems. Yeah, I agree that for a real production system, Plan 9 solution may not be as attractive as *nux* or *BSD. But then I think one can improve the performance by using real good hadware parts and careful system architecture (say, a good distributed architecture with a good network of machines). > Anyway, I am not taking exception to the decisions behind Plan 9 *in it's > current state*, I am merely asking: now that we have a model for an OS > that looks like a far better model than what *nux* offers, can we speed > that OS up to be competitive without destroying it? Or is what we have > about as good as it will get? Can you say which part of the system needs improvement? File System? Networking? And can you also give more details on the particular area? Regards dharani From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 02:33:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 02:33:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3302 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 02:33:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3298 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 02:33:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 02:33:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3E8C419A00; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:33:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B15B19A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:32:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h16HW5Lp000962 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:32:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca) Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with ESMTP id h16HW503000959 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:32:05 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] In-Reply-To: <001d01c2ce04$be41f5a0$4ef0b487@bl.belllabs.com> Message-ID: <20030206102731.I535@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> References: <001d01c2ce04$be41f5a0$4ef0b487@bl.belllabs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:32:05 -0700 (MST) On Thu, 6 Feb 2003, Tharaneedharan Vilwanathan wrote: > Can you say which part of the system needs improvement? File System? > Networking? And can you also give more details on the particular area? > currently the part of the system that needs improvement the most is the license (at least that's what the people at LANL think). short of starting another license flamewar, i'm simply saying this because your mail address appears to be related to the party responsible for this (though i'm not saying you are :) there are three separate places so far that have said "yes, you can work with p9, yes, we may even help you with it, but please fix the license". it doesn't bother me personally, it bothers the institution i'm a part of... andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 02:33:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 02:33:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3309 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 02:33:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3305 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 02:33:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 02:33:40 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 57DF119A28; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:33:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (closedmind.org [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8C96B199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:32:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1d03b9df37f6a72c3d2d7dcaec3f3c9d@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:32:52 -0500 Just for a wild guess, I bet the 1200+ open/read/close/strtoui's of /dev/cputimes skewed the results which would mean that side effects that wouldn't exist in programs (dominated the results). The tests themselves were not at all OS tests, they pretty much test the compiler and malloc and nothing else. There's a little pipe stuff in there to implement locks but they looked like pretty high level locks. I'm not saying that we're anywhere near as fast as the other OS's, only that the tests were pretty misdirected. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 02:45:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 02:45:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3416 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 02:45:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3412 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 02:45:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 02:45:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4518219A0B; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:45:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 38A831998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:44:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h16Hipt20911 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:44:51 -0500 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:44:51 -0500 (EST) > > > I like the approach that believes CPU cycles can be bought cheaper than > > developer minutes. > > that's fine if your idea of the world is developer minutes. But there's > this other thing called "the guys who pay the bill minutes", i.e. > (l)users, and they are less willing to take slower systems. > Aside: They're also less willing to change their computing environment due to the false belief that system interfaces are incremental; anything not resembling WIMP is met with resistance. I personally believe our approach is better, but I'll settle for "different" simply because you either get it or you don't. It's just not a matter of whether my window system is faster than yours. Since 9's end users are developers, it makes sense to compare our view of "speed" with others. Rob did a great job of building a system that lacks barriers to developing software; everything flows very nicely. I wouldn't trade that for a TCP implementation that runs 10% faster. > Anyway, I am not taking exception to the decisions behind Plan 9 *in it's > current state*, I am merely asking: now that we have a model for an OS > that looks like a far better model than what *nux* offers, can we speed > that OS up to be competitive without destroying it? Or is what we have > about as good as it will get? I just don't understand what you conceive as "slow." Speedups should be done only where they're demonstrably necessary - not because the "competitor" can do it in n less microseconds. Besides, you're comparing *nix to something resembling UNIX. It just doesn't work. Sure, UNIX was the computation king in its day, but that was accomplished with solid design. Look at it this way; 9 transcends the speed race by keeping the system "fast enough" as opposed to chasing an unnecessary goal. If the "competition" wants to compare microseconds, let 'em. While they're busy tweaking I'll be developing software to do something useful. I suspect my peers will too. Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 02:49:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 02:49:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3455 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 02:49:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3451 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 02:49:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 02:49:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 28E1419A27; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:49:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1A4121998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:48:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <65001793c52c12fdf7135b82ad89edd8@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] From: C H Forsyth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 17:50:43 0000 >>that's fine if your idea of the world is developer minutes. But there's >>this other thing called "the guys who pay the bill minutes", i.e. >>(l)users, and they are less willing to take slower systems. but the most popular system on the planet is in many commonly-used activities very--even painfully--slow indeed! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 03:08:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 03:08:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3632 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 03:08:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3628 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 03:08:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 03:08:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 41CFD19A2A; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:08:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5A27619A04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:07:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h16I7Dgp002212 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:07:13 -0700 Received: (qmail 11573 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 11:07:13 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 11:07:13 -0700 Received: (qmail 11779 invoked by uid 3499); 6 Feb 2003 11:07:13 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 11:07:13 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:07:13 -0700 (MST) On Thu, 6 Feb 2003, Sam wrote: > I just don't understand what you conceive as "slow." Well, on Pink, a 1024-node cluster we just built here, I can fire up a command to 1024 nodes from start to completion in < 4 seconds, and we consider that slow. Lest you think this a worthless benchmark I can tell you that startup overhead matters when scaling to this size system. My hunch is that Plan 9 would not start up quite this fast. But that is only based on very limited experience with 'cpu'. But you are correct in that I am not being specific. Sadly, my impressions are based on work done here last summer measuring TCP etc., and Andrey knows way better than I what the outcome of that was. However that doesn't much matter; what I'm taking from this discussion is that most Plan 9 users, who are developers not end-users, are satisfied with the performance of the system as is and see no need to try to make it competitive with the *nux* breeds. Given the overall far better quality of Plan 9 as an OS I find that understandable. That said, I did think David Butler's remarks were pretty interesting. Thanks ron p.s. What I really want to know: is Google going to run Plan 9 :-) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 03:09:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 03:09:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3639 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 03:09:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3635 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 03:09:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 03:09:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E82BA19A31; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:09:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 37FE219A04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:08:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h16I85gp002549 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:08:05 -0700 Received: (qmail 11579 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 11:08:05 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 11:08:05 -0700 Received: (qmail 11782 invoked by uid 3499); 6 Feb 2003 11:08:05 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 11:08:05 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] In-Reply-To: <65001793c52c12fdf7135b82ad89edd8@vitanuova.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:08:05 -0700 (MST) On Thu, 6 Feb 2003, C H Forsyth wrote: > but the most popular system on the planet is in many commonly-used activities > very--even painfully--slow indeed! yeah and I don't use it. Anyway, I was mainly asking a question, it's been answered, so time to move on. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 03:11:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 03:11:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3668 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 03:11:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3664 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 03:11:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 03:11:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 40DA719A33; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:11:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3A6EF19A33 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:10:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from mero.morphisms.net (mero.morphisms.net [66.93.84.246]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3520337 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:10:09 -0500 (EST) Received: by mero.morphisms.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 800C3275; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:10:09 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:10:09 -0500 From: "William K. Josephson" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] Message-ID: <20030206181009.GA42953@mero.morphisms.net> References: <1d03b9df37f6a72c3d2d7dcaec3f3c9d@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1d03b9df37f6a72c3d2d7dcaec3f3c9d@plan9.bell-labs.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-No-archive: yes Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: On Thu, Feb 06, 2003 at 12:32:52PM -0500, David Presotto wrote: >themselves were not at all OS tests, they pretty much test the compiler >and malloc and nothing else. There's a little pipe stuff in there to implement >locks but they looked like pretty high level locks. Not to mention that the repeated comparisons with gcc get tiresome: gcc is really not as great as many proponents make it out to be, even on the ia32. I'm very glad to have it and use it regularly, but it is much slower than either 8c or the vendor compiler and generates substantially slower code than the vendor compiler, at least in my experience. It isn't uncommon to see Intel's compiler beat gcc by 30-40% and I haven't found any non-trivial examples where gcc beats the Microsoft or Intel compilers, although they may well exist. If someone has the time, money, and warm bodies to invest, great, otherwise I'll port a few assembly routines when it really matters and get on with my life. Premature obfusc^H^H^H^H^Hoptimization is the root of all evil. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 03:15:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 03:15:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3699 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 03:15:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3695 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 03:15:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 03:15:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7F2DE19A25; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:15:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (closedmind.org [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BBDDF19A0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:14:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <7256bf2df02af553e48028e5332340bf@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-xkhpqjmikhyadsnwbdzqyvkkjg" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:14:00 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-xkhpqjmikhyadsnwbdzqyvkkjg Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was under the impression that Dong and I had fixed the TCP problems LANL was having. Is this incorrect? Could you tell me what's still slow? I really do want our IP stack to stay competative. Our next move is to take advantage of the hardware checksuming on the gigabit boards since, in our most recent testing, we seem to differ from BSD speeds most because of that. --upas-xkhpqjmikhyadsnwbdzqyvkkjg Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Feb 6 13:08:23 EST 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Feb 6 13:08:21 EST 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 01FD119A25; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:08:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5A27619A04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:07:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h16I7Dgp002212 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:07:13 -0700 Received: (qmail 11573 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 11:07:13 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 11:07:13 -0700 Received: (qmail 11779 invoked by uid 3499); 6 Feb 2003 11:07:13 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 11:07:13 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:07:13 -0700 (MST) On Thu, 6 Feb 2003, Sam wrote: > I just don't understand what you conceive as "slow." Well, on Pink, a 1024-node cluster we just built here, I can fire up a command to 1024 nodes from start to completion in < 4 seconds, and we consider that slow. Lest you think this a worthless benchmark I can tell you that startup overhead matters when scaling to this size system. My hunch is that Plan 9 would not start up quite this fast. But that is only based on very limited experience with 'cpu'. But you are correct in that I am not being specific. Sadly, my impressions are based on work done here last summer measuring TCP etc., and Andrey knows way better than I what the outcome of that was. However that doesn't much matter; what I'm taking from this discussion is that most Plan 9 users, who are developers not end-users, are satisfied with the performance of the system as is and see no need to try to make it competitive with the *nux* breeds. Given the overall far better quality of Plan 9 as an OS I find that understandable. That said, I did think David Butler's remarks were pretty interesting. Thanks ron p.s. What I really want to know: is Google going to run Plan 9 :-) --upas-xkhpqjmikhyadsnwbdzqyvkkjg-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 03:17:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 03:17:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3727 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 03:17:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3723 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 03:17:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 03:17:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E019C19A0D; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:17:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 26FF0199EC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:16:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h16IGO9i003581 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:16:24 -0700 Received: (qmail 11631 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 11:16:22 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 11:16:22 -0700 Received: (qmail 11794 invoked by uid 3499); 6 Feb 2003 11:16:22 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 11:16:22 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] In-Reply-To: <20030206181009.GA42953@mero.morphisms.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:16:22 -0700 (MST) On Thu, 6 Feb 2003, William K. Josephson wrote: > It isn't uncommon to see Intel's compiler beat gcc by 30-40% > and I haven't found any non-trivial examples where gcc beats > the Microsoft or Intel compilers, although they may well > exist. Agree with most of your comments re gcc, but the fact is that counterexamples do in fact exist. In fact I believe that LLNLs latest LINPACK runs were better with gcc than the intel v7.0 compiler, which I think surprised *everybody*. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 03:18:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 03:18:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3762 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 03:18:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3758 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 03:18:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 03:18:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0588B19A2D; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:18:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 00A5119A26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:17:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h16IHQ9i004048 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:17:26 -0700 Received: (qmail 11639 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 11:17:26 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 11:17:26 -0700 Received: (qmail 11798 invoked by uid 3499); 6 Feb 2003 11:17:26 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 11:17:26 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] In-Reply-To: <7256bf2df02af553e48028e5332340bf@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:17:26 -0700 (MST) On Thu, 6 Feb 2003, David Presotto wrote: > I was under the impression that Dong and I had fixed the TCP problems LANL was > having. Is this incorrect? Could you tell me what's still slow? I really > do want our IP stack to stay competative. Our next move is to take advantage > of the hardware checksuming on the gigabit boards since, in our most recent > testing, we seem to differ from BSD speeds most because of that. David, thanks for the note, and once I manage to stand some Plan 9 nodes back up, we'll try it again. Sorry I am being so non-specific. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 03:24:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 03:24:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3814 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 03:24:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3810 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 03:24:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 03:24:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5341F19A33; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:24:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ABAAF199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:23:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from mero.morphisms.net (mero.morphisms.net [66.93.84.246]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDC0B337 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:23:56 -0500 (EST) Received: by mero.morphisms.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id BCD80275; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:23:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:23:56 -0500 From: "William K. Josephson" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] Message-ID: <20030206182356.GC43123@mero.morphisms.net> References: <20030206181009.GA42953@mero.morphisms.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-No-archive: yes Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: On Thu, Feb 06, 2003 at 11:16:22AM -0700, Ronald G. Minnich wrote: > Agree with most of your comments re gcc, but the fact is that > counterexamples do in fact exist. In fact I believe that LLNLs latest > LINPACK runs were better with gcc than the intel v7.0 compiler, which I > think surprised *everybody*. That does surprise me. What is the target hardware? I've found gcc 3.2's support for the Pentium 4 to be rather atrocious. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 03:36:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 03:36:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3971 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 03:36:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3967 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 03:36:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 03:36:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3FE8819A19; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:36:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CBB01199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:35:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h16IZHLp001220 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:35:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca) Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with ESMTP id h16IZGoA001217 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:35:16 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] In-Reply-To: <7256bf2df02af553e48028e5332340bf@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: <20030206113325.O535@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> References: <7256bf2df02af553e48028e5332340bf@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:35:16 -0700 (MST) this is the last message on this subject: https://lists.cse.psu.edu/archives/9fans/2002-May/017658.html (it doesn't appear on groups.google.com though, I don't know why -- maybe the pics attached are to blame?) indeed we were able to measure improvement in speed, but the behaviour was still strange, yet even stranger when iostats was involved. andrey On Thu, 6 Feb 2003, David Presotto wrote: > I was under the impression that Dong and I had fixed the TCP problems LANL was > having. Is this incorrect? Could you tell me what's still slow? I really > do want our IP stack to stay competative. Our next move is to take advantage > of the hardware checksuming on the gigabit boards since, in our most recent > testing, we seem to differ from BSD speeds most because of that. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 03:44:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 03:44:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4018 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 03:44:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4014 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 03:44:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 03:44:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B0099199B3; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:44:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A1ABC19A10 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:43:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36557fae3384ae433109a2cbc5c820fd@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] In-Reply-To: <20030206113325.O535@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ksgsbfvtlbdeefvzczlwraiies" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:43:08 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ksgsbfvtlbdeefvzczlwraiies Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'll try to reproduce it but I believe that's the bug we fixed. I'll let you know after I try. --upas-ksgsbfvtlbdeefvzczlwraiies Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Feb 6 13:36:25 EST 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Feb 6 13:36:22 EST 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 29F77199B3; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:36:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CBB01199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:35:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h16IZHLp001220 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:35:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca) Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with ESMTP id h16IZGoA001217 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:35:16 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] In-Reply-To: <7256bf2df02af553e48028e5332340bf@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: <20030206113325.O535@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> References: <7256bf2df02af553e48028e5332340bf@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:35:16 -0700 (MST) this is the last message on this subject: https://lists.cse.psu.edu/archives/9fans/2002-May/017658.html (it doesn't appear on groups.google.com though, I don't know why -- maybe the pics attached are to blame?) indeed we were able to measure improvement in speed, but the behaviour was still strange, yet even stranger when iostats was involved. andrey On Thu, 6 Feb 2003, David Presotto wrote: > I was under the impression that Dong and I had fixed the TCP problems LANL was > having. Is this incorrect? Could you tell me what's still slow? I really > do want our IP stack to stay competative. Our next move is to take advantage > of the hardware checksuming on the gigabit boards since, in our most recent > testing, we seem to differ from BSD speeds most because of that. --upas-ksgsbfvtlbdeefvzczlwraiies-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 04:13:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 04:13:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4294 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 04:13:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4290 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 04:13:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 04:13:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2C0F8199EC; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 14:13:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5AE0A19991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 14:12:47 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <741c22a9cb0a565748e182c10d9f3bfb@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] In-Reply-To: <36557fae3384ae433109a2cbc5c820fd@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-aggzrjsfnnsvilyxboqfbgohpb" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 14:12:44 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-aggzrjsfnnsvilyxboqfbgohpb Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I didn't use iostats to speed things up because we don't need it now that the bug is fixed. Here's a bunch of runs with the bug fixed (actually there were a few bugs, one with acks and one with coalescing writes before sends). I could have sworn I'ld mailed you guys but I'ld just come back to lucent so maybe I was in daze... presotto@lauro% for(i in 8000 16000 32000 64000 128000 150000 200000 250000) netpipe -l $i prestotest 8000 Bpp 54352 kbps 16000 Bpp 66144 kbps 32000 Bpp 78064 kbps 64000 Bpp 82992 kbps 128000 Bpp 86720 kbps 150000 Bpp 87952 kbps 200000 Bpp 87760 kbps 250000 Bpp 90816 kbps --upas-aggzrjsfnnsvilyxboqfbgohpb Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Feb 6 13:44:29 EST 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Feb 6 13:44:26 EST 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4C73219A26; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:44:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A1ABC19A10 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:43:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36557fae3384ae433109a2cbc5c820fd@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] In-Reply-To: <20030206113325.O535@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ksgsbfvtlbdeefvzczlwraiies" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:43:08 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ksgsbfvtlbdeefvzczlwraiies Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'll try to reproduce it but I believe that's the bug we fixed. I'll let you know after I try. --upas-ksgsbfvtlbdeefvzczlwraiies Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Feb 6 13:36:25 EST 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Feb 6 13:36:22 EST 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 29F77199B3; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:36:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CBB01199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:35:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h16IZHLp001220 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:35:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca) Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with ESMTP id h16IZGoA001217 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:35:16 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] In-Reply-To: <7256bf2df02af553e48028e5332340bf@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: <20030206113325.O535@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> References: <7256bf2df02af553e48028e5332340bf@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:35:16 -0700 (MST) this is the last message on this subject: https://lists.cse.psu.edu/archives/9fans/2002-May/017658.html (it doesn't appear on groups.google.com though, I don't know why -- maybe the pics attached are to blame?) indeed we were able to measure improvement in speed, but the behaviour was still strange, yet even stranger when iostats was involved. andrey On Thu, 6 Feb 2003, David Presotto wrote: > I was under the impression that Dong and I had fixed the TCP problems LANL was > having. Is this incorrect? Could you tell me what's still slow? I really > do want our IP stack to stay competative. Our next move is to take advantage > of the hardware checksuming on the gigabit boards since, in our most recent > testing, we seem to differ from BSD speeds most because of that. --upas-ksgsbfvtlbdeefvzczlwraiies-- --upas-aggzrjsfnnsvilyxboqfbgohpb-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 04:21:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 04:21:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4392 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 04:21:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4388 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 04:21:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 04:21:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F360819980; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 14:21:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B4BDA1998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 14:20:08 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 11224 invoked by uid 991); 6 Feb 2003 19:20:08 -0000 Message-ID: <20030206192008.11223.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] In-Reply-To: Message from andrey mirtchovski of "Thu, 06 Feb 2003 11:35:16 MST." <20030206113325.O535@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 14:20:08 -0500 | (it doesn't appear on groups.google.com though, I don't know why -- maybe | the pics attached are to blame?) Probably the https. I put a copy of all that stuff (and the older set of archives) in < http://bio.cse.psu.edu/~schwartz/9fans/ >. I used to have those files bzip2-ed, but that seems to have prevented google from indexing them, so I recently uncompressed them. Hopefully google will reindex them soon. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 04:28:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 04:28:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4463 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 04:28:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4459 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 04:28:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 04:28:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1AE1D199BF; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 14:28:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B6DE199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 14:27:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Feb 6 14:27:48 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.235.194 ([141.154.235.194]) by plan9; Thu Feb 6 14:27:45 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A question on fossil From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <2bc7b99b21f1b2c6f489bbc5a5dd1266@caldo.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-dxcwhtoifnnbigdnqaxjaektdi" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 14:27:50 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-dxcwhtoifnnbigdnqaxjaektdi Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit you mean see fossilcons(8): Uname manipulates entries in the user table. There is no distinction between users and groups: a user is a group with one member. For each user, the user table records: id the string used to represent this user in the on-disk structures name the string used to represent this user in the 9P proto- col leader the group's leader (see stat(5) for a description of the special privileges held by a group leader) members a comma-separated list of members in this group The id and name are usually the same string, but need not be. Once an id is used in file system structures archived to Venti, it is impossible to change those disk structures, and thus impossible to rename the id. The translation from name to id allows the appearance of renaming the user even though the on-disk structures still record the old name. (In a conventional Unix file system, the id is stored as a small integer rather than a string.) Leader and members are names, not ids. --upas-dxcwhtoifnnbigdnqaxjaektdi Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Feb 6 08:06:09 EST 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Feb 6 08:06:07 EST 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 94D2F19A02; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 08:05:19 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 49148199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 08:04:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2bc7b99b21f1b2c6f489bbc5a5dd1266@caldo.demon.co.uk> From: Charles Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A question on fossil In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-hqjmbtetynnwksotvnbjqgqhbt" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:11:56 0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-hqjmbtetynnwksotvnbjqgqhbt Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit see fossilcons(8). here's an extract: ... The user table records a mapping between uids and unames, as well as recording the leader and members of each group. A uid is a string naming a user or group and stored in the on-disk data structures. A uname is the string naming a user or group and used in 9P protocol messages. There is a distinction so that unames can be safely reused, even though uids cannot. ... --upas-hqjmbtetynnwksotvnbjqgqhbt Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 1044535241:10:25665:1; Thu, 06 Feb 2003 12:40:41 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1121668; 6 Feb 2003 12:40 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 705A9199BC; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 07:37:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 15C921998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 07:36:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp ([61.211.130.19]) by ar; Thu Feb 6 21:36:36 JST 2003 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Subject: [9fans] A question on fossil Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 21:36:36 +0900 Hello, I have a question on /adm/users of fossil. It seems that the first field of /adm/users of fossil is same as the second field. I don't know whether it must be same or not. If it must be same, why did you make the format so redundant? If it must not be same, what is the intent of usage? Kenji Arisawa --upas-hqjmbtetynnwksotvnbjqgqhbt-- --upas-dxcwhtoifnnbigdnqaxjaektdi-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 04:39:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 04:39:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4551 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 04:39:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4547 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 04:39:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 04:39:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 997A0199DD; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 14:39:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DEBC319A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 14:38:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <78362e82ff401757342898d2721c9e70@plan9.bell-labs.com> X-Plan9-Fortune: Press Ctlt-Ds Ctlt-Del a to reboour reboour mach From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bitmaps --> troff ? In-Reply-To: <012401c2cdcd$c86335d0$6501a8c0@kike> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 14:38:20 -0500 > html email Rob! it wasn't really html email. it just said it was. bug in /bin/file fixed on sources. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 05:16:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 05:16:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5153 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 05:16:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5149 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 05:16:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 05:16:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5ED5919A0D; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 15:16:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.dirac.net (unknown [151.196.211.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B36D31998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 15:15:34 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 8682 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Feb 2003 20:13:54 -0000 Message-ID: <20030206201354.8681.qmail@mail.dirac.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] From: Keith Nash Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 6 Feb 2003 20:13:54 -0000 > I wouldnt worry about the 10% performance difference between Plan 9 > implementation and FreeBSD or Linux. What matters is whether we can > tolerate the performance loss. As long as my apps like acme, sam, charon, > etc run sufficiently fast, why would I worry? > > We know Plan 9 has the better design, code, capabilities, etc. It would > > be nice at some point to be able to say that speed is a distinguishing > > feature of Plan 9. Is it fundamentally impossible? This is an important issue if we want Plan 9 to be more widely deployed. I guess that not many users care about 10% differences in performance - but if Plan 9 is (say) three times slower than Unix, its user base will always be limited. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 05:47:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 05:47:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5396 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 05:47:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5392 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 05:47:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 05:47:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 622D0199EC; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 15:47:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.acl.lanl.gov (fbsd.acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.119]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id EDEA019980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 15:46:20 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 66297 invoked by uid 2345); 6 Feb 2003 20:36:07 -0000 From: Dean Prichard X-X-Sender: dpx@fbsd.acl.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030206132316.C66103-100000@fbsd.acl.lanl.gov> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: dpx@lanl.gov List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:36:07 -0700 (MST) Last time i ran tests (after Presotto fixes) if i recall correctly plan9 was very close to FreeBSD on netpipe tcp performance on 100BT, and that is preety amazing in my book as the plan9 tcp code is a lot smaller and cleaner than FreeBSD's. GigE performance was not so good, probably because of the lack of window scale option. On Thu, 6 Feb 2003, Ronald G. Minnich wrote: > Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:17:26 -0700 (MST) > From: Ronald G. Minnich > Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] > > On Thu, 6 Feb 2003, David Presotto wrote: > > > I was under the impression that Dong and I had fixed the TCP problems LANL was > > having. Is this incorrect? Could you tell me what's still slow? I really > > do want our IP stack to stay competative. Our next move is to take advantage > > of the hardware checksuming on the gigabit boards since, in our most recent > > testing, we seem to differ from BSD speeds most because of that. > > David, thanks for the note, and once I manage to stand some Plan 9 nodes > back up, we'll try it again. Sorry I am being so non-specific. > > ron > > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 06:07:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 06:07:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5607 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 06:07:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5603 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 06:07:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 06:07:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C4D6919980; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 16:07:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 615CE1998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 16:06:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Feb 6 16:06:30 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.235.194 ([141.154.235.194]) by plan9; Thu Feb 6 16:06:28 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Webbrowser From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <03020521261700.00507@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 16:06:32 -0500 I added the mothra man page, the html help page (/sys/lib/mothra/help.html) and the mothra gifs to the /n/sources/contrib/mothra directory. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 06:10:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 06:10:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5616 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 06:10:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5612 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 06:10:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 06:10:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9811D1998C; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 16:10:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A9B2919980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 16:09:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h16L9k9i010176 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 14:09:46 -0700 Received: (qmail 13064 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2003 14:09:46 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 14:09:46 -0700 Received: (qmail 12976 invoked by uid 3499); 6 Feb 2003 14:09:46 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 6 Feb 2003 14:09:46 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] In-Reply-To: <20030206182356.GC43123@mero.morphisms.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 14:09:46 -0700 (MST) On Thu, 6 Feb 2003, William K. Josephson wrote: > On Thu, Feb 06, 2003 at 11:16:22AM -0700, Ronald G. Minnich wrote: > > > Agree with most of your comments re gcc, but the fact is that > > counterexamples do in fact exist. In fact I believe that LLNLs latest > > LINPACK runs were better with gcc than the intel v7.0 compiler, which I > > think surprised *everybody*. > > That does surprise me. What is the target hardware? > I've found gcc 3.2's support for the Pentium 4 to be > rather atrocious. > that's the best part. Is a p4@2.4 ghz. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 06:30:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 06:30:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5921 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 06:30:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5917 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 06:30:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 06:30:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1DDA6199F2; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 16:30:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from dirty.research.bell-labs.com (dirty.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BD60D199EC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 16:29:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from grubby.research.bell-labs.com (H-135-104-2-9.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.9]) by dirty.research.bell-labs.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h16LTehN048044 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 16:29:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from bronx.dnrc.bell-labs.com (bronx.dnrc.bell-labs.com [135.180.160.8]) by grubby.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h16LTVY79003 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 16:29:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from aelf (alef [135.180.240.78]) by bronx.dnrc.bell-labs.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA06069 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 16:29:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <017301c2ce26$d62b0d60$4ef0b487@bl.belllabs.com> From: "Tharaneedharan Vilwanathan" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030206201354.8681.qmail@mail.dirac.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 16:29:31 -0500 Hi, > > I wouldnt worry about the 10% performance difference between Plan 9 > > implementation and FreeBSD or Linux. What matters is whether we can > > tolerate the performance loss. As long as my apps like acme, sam, charon, > > etc run sufficiently fast, why would I worry? > > > > We know Plan 9 has the better design, code, capabilities, etc. It would > > > be nice at some point to be able to say that speed is a distinguishing > > > feature of Plan 9. Is it fundamentally impossible? > > This is an important issue if we want Plan 9 to be more widely deployed. I guess that not many users care about 10% differences in performance - but if Plan 9 is (say) three times slower than Unix, its user base will always be limited. The strengths of Plan 9 should be the reason for wide deployment instead of performance figures. Things like venti, fossil, factotum and revved up graphics module are excellent additions to Plan 9 in the recent time. I would like to see these kind of enhancements to Plan 9 rather than racing with other OS'es in terms of performance. Of course, if someone can cleanly modify the code for some critical performance improvement, thats fine. Otherwise, let us not try to make Plan 9 another *nux* or *BSD. IMHO. Regards dharani PS: The opinions are just mine, not company's. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 06:34:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 06:34:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5978 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 06:34:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5974 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 06:34:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 06:34:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 22E94199D7; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 16:34:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3B9C5199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 16:33:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Feb 6 16:33:13 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.235.194 ([141.154.235.194]) by plan9; Thu Feb 6 16:33:11 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <017301c2ce26$d62b0d60$4ef0b487@bl.belllabs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 16:33:16 -0500 > Otherwise, let us not try to make Plan 9 another *nux* or *BSD. people have been using this abbreviation a lot recently. surely you mean *n*x* rather than *nux*. i should go out and build a unix clone called uxin so that you'd have to call it a ***** clone, or maybe a !@#$% clone. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 06:42:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 06:42:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6027 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 06:42:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6023 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 06:42:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 06:42:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 48DF6199D7; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 16:42:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from edoras.nas.com (edoras.nas.com [206.63.100.8]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4136B19999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 16:41:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from nas.com (unknown [164.116.190.46]) by edoras.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED8FFEB111 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:40:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3E42D661.5010708@nas.com> From: Jack Johnson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.2a) Gecko/20020910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, es MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 13:40:49 -0800 Russ Cox wrote: >>Otherwise, let us not try to make Plan 9 another *nux* or *BSD. > people have been using this abbreviation > a lot recently. surely you mean *n*x* rather > than *nux*. i should go out and build > a unix clone called uxin so that you'd have to > call it a ***** clone, or maybe a !@#$% clone. I think it's something like *n[ui]x(c), though it's still !@#$%. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 09:07:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 09:07:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7567 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 09:07:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7563 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 09:07:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 09:07:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 440EB199DD; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 19:07:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-227.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.227]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1ED7E19980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 19:06:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 16:06:15 -0800 > Otherwise, let us not try to make Plan 9 another *nux* or *BSD. I just call them all `lunix'. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 10:45:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 10:45:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10792 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 10:45:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10786 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 10:45:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 10:45:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 05908199B3; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 20:45:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9BAE4199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 20:44:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <88f27d115d68033dbcbc6ffd66952c3d@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 10:46:17 +0900 I was too late. It's all over while I was in bed. ☺ > The least of my desires was to judge plan9 based on the results of > this 'benchmark'.. I remind that we usually make serious decision without measuring it, rather just based on our feelings. The most important one to us may be to select our partner, and at such scene we are at most emotional, not logical. Then, we fail sometime? ☺ I suppose it is the very nice or bad human nature probably comes from very deep of us. I choose my OS through such process. 'benchmark' is necessary only to endorse one to someone else. Unfortunately, and usually, the one compelled by the 'benchmark' will not love it, but just accept it. We need such acceptants?, yes, indeed. However, now we need more developpers to love it, where no 'benchmark' but just good nature is required... Sorry, my redundant. Kenji -- to 9fans From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 15:52:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 15:52:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20812 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 15:52:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20808 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 15:52:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 15:52:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D4603199EC; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 01:52:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from unicorn.math.spbu.ru (unicorn.math.spbu.ru [195.19.226.166]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 56CD41998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 01:51:01 -0500 (EST) Received: (from vugluskr@localhost) by unicorn.math.spbu.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA10396 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:50:58 +0300 From: "Roman V. Shaposhnick" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Summary of Plan9 for jargon file Message-ID: <20030207095058.A10318@unicorn.math.spbu.ru> References: <9bbb3d829d428c918d69fef9531a3444@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3i In-Reply-To: <9bbb3d829d428c918d69fef9531a3444@plan9.bell-labs.com> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:50:58 +0300 On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 02:13:08PM -0500, Russ Cox wrote: > i think this is what you're talking about, > but it hardly seems a fitting entry. also it's > not true anymore, a fact i have recently > discovered by crashing unix boxes with > reasonable nfs traffic. good luck crashing > plan 9 with 9p traffic. It's not that hard. I've posted a recipe once here. You just need a buggy 9p server that stops in the middle of transaction and never sends anything (including R message client is waiting for) back. So, if you try to kill this hanging app kernel just runs out of tags and hangs. Nothing helps but reboot. ASS/AHS I guess. Thanks, Roman. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 17:30:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 17:30:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24357 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 17:30:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24353 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 17:30:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 17:30:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2EFD0199F2; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 03:30:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5CFA5199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 03:29:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h178T1em022906 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 00:29:11 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 21:32:52 -0800 > !@#$% clone. As a side note, I'm surprised there isn't a Unicode symbol for !@#$% From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 18:25:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 18:25:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25641 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 18:25:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25633 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 18:25:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 18:25:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DF05C19A0B; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 04:25:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from hamnavoe (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A301319A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 04:24:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <71db741bbe0f430231e7506be2799df2@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] From: Richard Miller In-Reply-To: <3E42D661.5010708@nas.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 08:44:23 0000 > I think it's something like *n[ui]x(c), though it's still !@#$%. Not good enough - doesn't match Xinu. Or Idris. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 18:37:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 18:37:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25839 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 18:37:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25834 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 18:37:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 18:37:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D27819A19; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 04:37:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 19F2419A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 04:36:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Marsv presentation at Houston From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 18:38:03 +0900 > We will make presentation of our marsv software (previously Planv) > at Houston March, the abstract of which is seen at Huuu,,,, I think I got fix of the major bug of it! Using channel is not so easy when we have to deel with large deeply nested thread. Sorry, to bother all, I've been struggling against this for about a month. Yes, I'm not a good programmer, but just a geologist... Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 21:19:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 21:19:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28696 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 21:19:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28692 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 21:19:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 21:19:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6F41D19A17; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 07:19:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0C49D199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 07:18:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4942c5e22af275ec5eb7ed4982be97c3@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Summary of Plan9 for jargon file From: C H Forsyth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-pyoamjjpnxbctablxdrybkbbpf" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 12:20:29 0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-pyoamjjpnxbctablxdrybkbbpf Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i'm fairly sure you'll find that's now harder to do that way. there have been changes. --upas-pyoamjjpnxbctablxdrybkbbpf Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@vitanuova.com id 1044600742:20:24674:39; Fri, 07 Feb 2003 06:52:22 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2024699; 7 Feb 2003 6:52 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AEAAB19999; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 01:52:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from unicorn.math.spbu.ru (unicorn.math.spbu.ru [195.19.226.166]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 56CD41998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 01:51:01 -0500 (EST) Received: (from vugluskr@localhost) by unicorn.math.spbu.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA10396 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:50:58 +0300 From: "Roman V. Shaposhnick" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Summary of Plan9 for jargon file Message-ID: <20030207095058.A10318@unicorn.math.spbu.ru> References: <9bbb3d829d428c918d69fef9531a3444@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3i In-Reply-To: <9bbb3d829d428c918d69fef9531a3444@plan9.bell-labs.com> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:50:58 +0300 On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 02:13:08PM -0500, Russ Cox wrote: > i think this is what you're talking about, > but it hardly seems a fitting entry. also it's > not true anymore, a fact i have recently > discovered by crashing unix boxes with > reasonable nfs traffic. good luck crashing > plan 9 with 9p traffic. It's not that hard. I've posted a recipe once here. You just need a buggy 9p server that stops in the middle of transaction and never sends anything (including R message client is waiting for) back. So, if you try to kill this hanging app kernel just runs out of tags and hangs. Nothing helps but reboot. ASS/AHS I guess. Thanks, Roman. --upas-pyoamjjpnxbctablxdrybkbbpf-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 21:46:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 21:46:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29087 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 21:46:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29083 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 21:46:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 21:46:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E6E219A2C; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 07:46:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF455199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 07:45:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18h7hh-00045S-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 07 Feb 2003 12:34:01 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Ralph Corderoy Message-ID: <1592.3e43a5f2.6d80a@blake.inputplus.co.uk> Organization: InputPlus Ltd. References: , <20030205163158.GA52524@ix.netcom.com>, Subject: Re: [9fans] pic generators? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 12:33:10 GMT Hi, > Since we're at it, there's also www.troff.org, which has a pointer to > the recreated Unix Text Processing. The scanned bitmaps of the > original are available from O'Reilly. http://troff.org/books.html#ora Cheers, -- Ralph Corderoy. http://inputplus.co.uk/ralph/ http://troff.org/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 22:52:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 22:52:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30028 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 22:52:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30024 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 22:52:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 22:52:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7677519A26; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 08:52:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lcd.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3202C199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 08:51:21 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 14160 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 13:58:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO kike) (192.168.1.101) by 192.168.1.102 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 13:58:34 -0000 Message-ID: <047201c2ceaf$feeda120$6501a8c0@kike> From: "matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <71db741bbe0f430231e7506be2799df2@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 13:51:20 -0000 > > I think it's something like *n[ui]x(c), though it's still !@#$%. > > Not good enough - doesn't match Xinu. Or Idris. or, horrors, Xenix From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 23:04:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 23:04:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30162 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 23:04:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30158 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 23:04:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 23:04:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0F86F19A2D; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:04:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.119.131.80]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 66120199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:03:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (boyd@zode.strakt.com [62.119.131.76]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h17E3fxw000327 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 15:03:41 +0100 Message-ID: <3E43BCBC.1060408@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020623 Debian/1.0.0-0.woody.1 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] References: <71db741bbe0f430231e7506be2799df2@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk> <047201c2ceaf$feeda120$6501a8c0@kike> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 15:03:40 +0100 I always liked 'lunix'. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 7 23:29:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 7 23:29:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30378 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Feb 2003 23:29:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30374 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2003 23:29:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Feb 2003 23:29:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ABEE619A33; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:29:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D27DC19A31 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:28:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h17ESbt23875 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:28:37 -0500 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <1592.3e43a5f2.6d80a@blake.inputplus.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] troff book (was: pic generators?) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:28:37 -0500 (EST) Interesting. Now that this page is brought to my attention, I realize that the book I've been learning my troff from isn't in the list. I picked it up on Ebay from a UK bookseller. It's titled _Unix System Document Processing Guide_ and has no authors listed. The publisher is Western Electric. Anyone heard of this one? The writing is quite good, and rather comical at times. On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Ralph Corderoy wrote: > Hi, > > > Since we're at it, there's also www.troff.org, which has a pointer to > > the recreated Unix Text Processing. The scanned bitmaps of the > > original are available from O'Reilly. > > http://troff.org/books.html#ora > > Cheers, > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 8 02:35:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 8 02:35:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32389 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Feb 2003 02:35:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32385 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2003 02:35:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Feb 2003 02:35:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 14C6919A28; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 12:35:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BC86119A06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 12:34:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h17HYhLp027448 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 10:34:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca) Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with ESMTP id h17HYhiA027445 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 10:34:43 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20030207102954.N27070@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] slashdot's plan9 (featuring Dennis Ritchie) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 10:34:43 -0700 (MST) preamble: an interview with Dennis Ritchie was featured^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hlinked to from slashdot today... it's funny how the first comment at +5 in the discussion is 'please support plan9' and the second one is 'RMS doesn't like plan9's license' (followed by 25 others saying how nobody likes RMS)... kudos to whoever wrote this comment, I think it's worth putting it in the wiki: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=53075&cid=5250063 andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 8 02:53:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 8 02:53:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32506 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Feb 2003 02:53:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32502 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2003 02:53:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Feb 2003 02:53:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 279BC19A0B; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 12:53:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from infocom.km.ua (infocom.km.ua [195.230.134.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EFF3B19A06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 12:52:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from kp.km.ua (root@kp.km.ua [217.196.174.2]) by infocom.km.ua (8.12.7/8.12.6/ic) with ESMTP id h17Hq0Rm014838 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 19:52:02 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Received: from localhost.localdomain (dialup01.kp.km.ua [217.196.174.16]) by kp.km.ua (kp.km.ua/8.12.6/kp-branch) with SMTP id h17HppTc073243 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 19:51:53 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" From: "Andrey S. Kukhar" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Marsv presentation at Houston X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <03020719481601.00507@localhost.localdomain> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 19:48:16 -0500 is marsv soft available online? -kyxap > > We will make presentation of our marsv software > > (previously Planv) at Houston March, the abstract of > > which is seen at > > Huuu,,,, > > I think I got fix of the major bug of it! > Using channel is not so easy when we have to deel with > large deeply nested thread. > > Sorry, to bother all, I've been struggling against this > for about a month. Yes, I'm not a good programmer, but > just a geologist... > > Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 8 02:53:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 8 02:53:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32513 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Feb 2003 02:53:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32509 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2003 02:53:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Feb 2003 02:53:39 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C76B419A40; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 12:53:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from infocom.km.ua (infocom.km.ua [195.230.134.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EF8E719A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 12:52:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from kp.km.ua (root@kp.km.ua [217.196.174.2]) by infocom.km.ua (8.12.7/8.12.6/ic) with ESMTP id h17Hq1Rm014839 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 19:52:02 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Received: from localhost.localdomain (dialup01.kp.km.ua [217.196.174.16]) by kp.km.ua (kp.km.ua/8.12.6/kp-branch) with SMTP id h17HppTd073243 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 19:51:55 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" From: "Andrey S. Kukhar" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Webbrowser X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <03020719452300.00507@localhost.localdomain> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 19:49:02 -0500 ok (and thanks), but a few hours earlier I found this all at http://plan9.aichi-u.ac.jp/netlib/ and ftp://ftp.leo.org/pub/comp/os/plan9/ -kyxap > I added the mothra man page, the html help page > (/sys/lib/mothra/help.html) and the mothra gifs > to the /n/sources/contrib/mothra directory. > > Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 8 04:55:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 8 04:55:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1070 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Feb 2003 04:55:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1066 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2003 04:55:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Feb 2003 04:55:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB51F19A27; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 14:55:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 462BD19A0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Feb 2003 14:54:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Feb 7 14:54:54 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.235.194 ([141.154.235.194]) by plan9; Fri Feb 7 14:54:51 EST 2003 Message-ID: <703597eca26b570200b4a4a522d63a1c@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] name space and fossil tricks Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 14:54:48 -0500 [I wrote this back in November, but was waiting for Fossil to be released for context before mailing it, and then I forgot. -rsc] Rob wrote a script like the one below when we were working on the 4th edition distribution. To build the distribution binaries, we could make a copy of sources (say, in /n/dist) and then run g% namespace /n/dist which makes the name space in that window almost identical to the name space you'd get booting from /n/dist. If you then run g% window -m rio you've got a full terminal! This is much easier than using a different machine. In fact, you can, for example, boot over the network and then do g% 9fs kfs g% namespace /n/kfs kfs=; Then even if the network connection dies you can keep doing useful things in the kfs name space window. This is a neat trick, but I didn't realize how neat it was until just now. I've been testing the new file server (called fossil) on my laptop (hey, when you've only got one machine, ...). I can boot from fossil to get my up-to-date system, or if I really screw things up I can boot from kfs to get an out-of-date system I can use to fix things. I made a change to the on-disk layout of the new file system and needed to reformat the disk. Usually this would require the following: - build a new kernel containing the new fossil - copy kernel to 9fat - run a dump of the file system to Venti - reboot using kfs kernel - reformat the disk - reboot using new kernel But instead I did: - run a dump of fossil to Venti, remember score - switch to kfs and kill fossil g% namespace /n/kfs kfs=; slay fossil | rc - realize I forgot to copy the format binary to kfs - realize I forgot to build a new kernel - mount dump kfs=; vacfs <{echo vac:asdfadsfasdadsf} - reformat using binary in dump kfs=; cd /n/vac/sys/src/cmd/fossil kfs=; 8.format /dev/sdC0/fossil vac:asdfadsfadsfadsf - start fossil and switch back kfs=; 8.fossil ... kfs=; mount /srv/fossil /n/fossil kfs=; namespace /n/fossil - rebuild the kernel fossil=; cd /sys/src/cmd/fossil fossil=; mk install fossil=; cd /sys/src/9/pc fossil=; mk 'CONF=pcfl' 9pcfl.gz fossil=; 9fat: fossil=; cp 9pcfl.gz /n/9fat - reboot So despite screwing up I still only needed to reboot once (rather than the four reboots it would have taken without name space but with the same screwup). Anyhow, the point is: how many systems do you know that stay up after you've removed their root file systems out from under them? g% cat /usr/rsc/bin/rc/namespace #!/bin/rc rfork en # adapted from /lib/namespace if(! ~ $#* 1 || ! test -x $1/$cputype/bin/bind) { echo 'usage: namespace /n/foo' >[1=2] echo ' /n/foo/$cputype/bin/bind must exist' >[1=2] exit usage } root = $1 echo setting up $root fn bind{ /$cputype/bin/bind $* } # root bind $root / bind -b '#/' / # kernel devices bind '#c' /dev bind '#d' /fd bind -c '#e' /env bind '#p' /proc bind -c '#s' /srv bind -a '#S' /dev # standard bin bind /$cputype/bin /bin bind -a /rc/bin /bin ramfs cd prompt=(`{basename $root}^'=; ' ' ') fn cd rc -i g% From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 9 00:21:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 9 00:21:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16405 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Feb 2003 00:21:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16401 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2003 00:21:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Feb 2003 00:21:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 29D72199EC; Sat, 8 Feb 2003 10:21:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A794C199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 8 Feb 2003 10:20:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp ([61.211.130.19]) by ar; Sun Feb 9 00:20:07 JST 2003 Subject: Re: [9fans] name space and fossil tricks Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <703597eca26b570200b4a4a522d63a1c@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 00:20:07 +0900 >This is a neat trick Thanks Russ, that works pretty fine! Kenji Arisawa From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 9 01:43:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 9 01:43:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17532 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Feb 2003 01:43:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17528 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2003 01:43:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Feb 2003 01:43:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A5D5B199EE; Sat, 8 Feb 2003 11:43:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8DD1D1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 8 Feb 2003 11:42:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from bar.net (h00062575a5e2.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.30.137.5]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51) with SMTP id <20030208164228051007c6lfe>; Sat, 8 Feb 2003 16:42:28 +0000 Message-ID: <3E45339D.7070008@bar.net> From: Glenn McGuire User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3a) Gecko/20021212 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Looking for namespace details Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 11:43:09 -0500 Hi, I'm trying to understand how namespaces are implemented in Plan9, and I've run into a block. I started tracing stuff like 'bind' and 'open' through the source code, and they all point to /sys/src/libc/9syscall/.s All of these (dynamically generated) assembly functions appear to cause a jump to a dispatch table. ("INT 64, vec"-- a newbie guess would say that we're jumping from user space to kernel space?) My question is -- where is the code for the kernel side of these calls? -gm From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 9 01:47:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 9 01:47:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17576 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Feb 2003 01:47:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17572 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2003 01:47:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Feb 2003 01:47:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 63F4619992; Sat, 8 Feb 2003 11:47:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AB73B19988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 8 Feb 2003 11:46:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01231 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 8 Feb 2003 11:46:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h18GkSM23412 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 8 Feb 2003 11:46:29 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302081646.h18GkSM23412@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Looking for namespace details In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 08 Feb 2003 11:43:09 EST." <3E45339D.7070008@bar.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 11:46:28 -0500 You are correct about what they're doing. The code is in /sys/src/9/port and /sys/src/9/pc (or whatever architecture you're using). - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 9 01:48:14 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 9 01:48:14 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17588 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Feb 2003 01:48:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17584 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2003 01:48:13 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Feb 2003 01:48:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CFECB199EE; Sat, 8 Feb 2003 11:48:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 74C76199EE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 8 Feb 2003 11:47:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sat Feb 8 11:47:00 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.235.194 ([141.154.235.194]) by plan9; Sat Feb 8 11:46:58 EST 2003 Message-ID: <5ee9b55ec2efd604a8674fea47c8d5f4@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Looking for namespace details From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <3E45339D.7070008@bar.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 11:46:56 -0500 directly, /sys/src/9/port/sysfile.c. but the code you care about (for name spaces) is in /sys/src/9/port/chan.c with a little in /sys/src/9/port/pgrp.c. russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 9 01:48:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 9 01:48:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17595 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Feb 2003 01:48:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17591 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2003 01:48:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Feb 2003 01:48:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4627519A0B; Sat, 8 Feb 2003 11:48:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 900F0199EE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 8 Feb 2003 11:47:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <756d0c00e5b63e701cc936cd3dbb37df@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: foo@bar.net, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Looking for namespace details MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 11:45:58 -0500 in /sys/src/9/port - chan.c (the actual namespace), sysfile.c (the system calls for changing the namespace) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 9 02:19:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 9 02:19:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17986 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Feb 2003 02:19:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17982 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2003 02:19:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Feb 2003 02:19:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8B8CB199ED; Sat, 8 Feb 2003 12:19:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DDA86199EC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 8 Feb 2003 12:18:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.7) with ESMTP id 460091 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 08 Feb 2003 11:18:08 -0600 Message-ID: <2d2de0c7a2cec61d339f6863c37f2cd2@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Looking for namespace details From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <3E45339D.7070008@bar.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 09:17:39 -0800 > My question is -- where is the code for the kernel side of these calls? Some of the system calls are wrapped in libc first - for example, read() is a wrapper for pread() - but on average, system call foo is connected by a trap through a table defined in /sys/src/9/port/systab.h (generated automatically from /sys/src/libc/9syscall/sys.h) to a routine in /sys/src/9/port/sys*.c called sysfoo(). A few later system calls appear in files not beginning with "sys", a regrettable lapse. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 9 19:06:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 9 19:06:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32417 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Feb 2003 19:06:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32413 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2003 19:06:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Feb 2003 19:06:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 59ECF19A00; Sun, 9 Feb 2003 05:06:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from skeeve.com (ads5.ads.active.net.il [192.117.127.213]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B7B9619992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Feb 2003 05:04:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (skeeve [127.0.0.1]) by skeeve.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h19A5q9E018652 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Feb 2003 12:05:56 +0200 Received: (from arnold@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h19A5d2A018648 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 9 Feb 2003 12:05:39 +0200 From: Aharon Robbins Message-Id: <200302091005.h19A5d2A018648@localhost.localdomain> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] what a mess the Unix world has become Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 12:05:39 +0200 I forward this for the amusement of the list members. My initial reply to this question was that the "Unix guru gives up in disgust and moves to Plan 9." Would that I could. Arnold > Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 09:37:50 -0700 (MST) > Subject: Readable files: a Unix philosophy question for gurus > > In "man test", we find this documentation: > > -r FILE > FILE exists and is readable > > Similar wording appears in vendor man pages, although Compaq OSF/1 > is a bit more precise: > > -r file > TRUE if file exists and has read permission. > > Consider a file with these permissions: > > % ls -l foo.xml > -rwSr-Srwx 2 beebe staff 174440 Feb 8 08:20 foo.xml > > created by > > chmod u+s,g+s,o+rwxt foo.xml > > Now look at this: > > (1) On the file server: > > /bin/test -r foo.xml && echo file is readable > file is readable > > /usr/local/bin/test -r foo.xml && echo file is readable > file is readable > > /usr/local/bin/test --version > test (GNU coreutils) 4.5.6 > ... > > /bin/cat foo.xml > /dev/null > > echo $? > 0 > > (2) On a [Sun Solaris 2.8] client, where the filesystem is mounted via > NFS with the attributes remote/read/write/nosuid/grpid/intr/noquota: > > /bin/test -r foo.xml && echo file is readable > [no output] > > /usr/local/bin/test -r foo.xml && echo file is readable > file is readable > > /bin/cat foo.xml > /dev/null > cat: cannot open foo.xml > > /usr/local/bin/cat foo.xml > /dev/null > /usr/local/bin/cat: foo.xml: Permission denied > > echo $? > 1 > > The $65,536 question is: what should test report? In this case, the > setuid bit combined with the mount options makes the file unreadable, > and the Solaris test command reflects that, but the GNU coreutils > one does not. > > Experiments with native test on other systems produced these results: > > SGI IRIX 6.5: file is readable, cat fails > Compaq OSF/1 4.0: no output from test, cat fails > > On AIX, my home filesystem is not mounted with special attributes, so > I could not make the same experiment. > > On FreeBSD, chmod would not do g+s or o+t for me, and the file > remained readable for both test and cat. > > My feeling is that the GNU version of test (going back to at least > sh-utils 2.0.11 on Red Hat 7.2, and likely much earlier), and the IRIX > version too, are wrong. > > I think that one really should be able to do "test -r foo && cat foo" > without cat failing because of permissions. > > Comments? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 10 04:49:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 10 04:49:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7349 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Feb 2003 04:49:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7345 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2003 04:49:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Feb 2003 04:49:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E6E919A00; Sun, 9 Feb 2003 14:49:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ducky.net (ducky.net [66.93.167.66]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0C41A199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Feb 2003 14:48:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from ducky.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ducky.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h19Jm8uQ012444 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Feb 2003 11:48:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@ducky.net) Received: (from mike@localhost) by ducky.net (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id h19Jm7S2012443 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 9 Feb 2003 11:48:07 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Haertel Message-Id: <200302091948.h19Jm7S2012443@ducky.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] what a mess the Unix world has become In-Reply-To: <200302091005.h19A5d2A018648@localhost.localdomain> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 11:48:07 -0800 (PST) > I think that one really should be able to do "test -r foo && cat foo" > without cat failing because of permissions. This could never be guaranteed to succeed, even with a supposedly perfect version of "test", because "foo" might get altered between the "test" and the "cat". From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 10 06:21:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 10 06:21:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8046 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Feb 2003 06:21:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8042 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2003 06:21:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Feb 2003 06:21:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 36AE319992; Sun, 9 Feb 2003 16:21:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B6954199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Feb 2003 16:20:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21127 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Feb 2003 16:20:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h19LKBM29830 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Feb 2003 16:20:11 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302092120.h19LKBM29830@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Dan Cross Subject: [9fans] Okay, who's been playing with the cheese wiz? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 16:20:10 -0500 I've run into a couple of weird things recently. First, I noticed that acme was commiting suicide after I tried to delete everything in a window using, ``Edit 1,$d'' and then tried to edit normally. A stack trace for that follows: acid: lstk() At pc:0x00039bc1:abort /sys/src/libc/9sys/abort.c:6 abort() /sys/src/libc/9sys/abort.c:6 called from error+0x33 /sys/src/cmd/acme/util.c:55 error(s=0x000400b1) /sys/src/cmd/acme/util.c:51 called from bufread+0xca /sys/src/cmd/acme/buff.c:287 bufread(b=0x000941c0,q0=0x00000254,n=0x00000001,s=0x00087b96) /sys/src/cmd/acme/buff.c:280 called from textreadc+0x46 /sys/src/cmd/acme/text.c:486 m=0x0003f878 textreadc(q=0x00000254,t=0x00093ed0) /sys/src/cmd/acme/text.c:478 called from textbacknl+0x62 /sys/src/cmd/acme/text.c:1153 r=0xc37f0000 textbacknl(n=0x00000012,p=0x00000255,t=0x00093ed0) /sys/src/cmd/acme/text.c:1139 called from textshow+0xc3 /sys/src/cmd/acme/text.c:809 i=0x00000011 j=0x0000007f textshow(q0=0x00000256,t=0x00093ed0,doselect=0x00000001,q1=0x00000256) /sys/src/cmd/acme/text.c:789 called from texttype+0xf9 /sys/src/cmd/acme/text.c:553 texttype(t=0x00093ed0,r=0x0000000a) /sys/src/cmd/acme/text.c:521 called from wintype+0x18 /sys/src/cmd/acme/wind.c:274 nnb=0x00093de0 q1=0x000003ad q0=0x0001dc38 i=0x00093df0 nb=0x0001dbe0 u=0x0002db50 n=0x00000002 wintype(t=0x00093ed0,r=0x0000000a,w=0x00093de0) /sys/src/cmd/acme/wind.c:270 called from rowtype+0xce /sys/src/cmd/acme/rows.c:274 i=0x00000000 rowtype(row=0x00048720,p=0x000003ad,r=0x0000000a) /sys/src/cmd/acme/rows.c:257 called from keyboardthread+0xb2 /sys/src/cmd/acme/acme.c:386 t=0x00093ed0 w=0x00093de0 keyboardthread() /sys/src/cmd/acme/acme.c:351 called from launcher386+0x10 /sys/src/libthread/386.c:10 r=0xfee1000a timer=0x00098008 t=0x00093df4 launcher386(arg=0x00000000,f=0x00001f99) /sys/src/libthread/386.c:7 called from 0xfefefefe ?file?:0 acid: I was away last week, so thought perhaps this was a known bug that had been fixed elsewhere. When I got back, I noticed a bunch of acme updates, so I rebuilt the system to try and get everything to work again, but now execnet dies with: fid/qid mismatch in walk1 functionexecnet 223: suicide: sys: trap: fault read addr=0x0 pc=0x00008154 A stack trace follows: acid: lstk() At pc:0x00008154:abort /sys/src/libc/9sys/abort.c:6 abort() /sys/src/libc/9sys/abort.c:6 called from oldwalk1+0x5e /sys/src/lib9p/srv.c:288 oldwalk1(arg=0x0001813c,fid=0x00036690,name=0x00028cd2) /sys/src/lib9p/srv.c:273 called from walkandclone+0xb6 /sys/src/lib9p/srv.c:151 qid=0x00000001 walkandclone(clone=0x0000f71d,r=0x00036250,arg=0x0001813c,walk1=0x0000f68d) /sys/src/lib9p/srv.c:131 called from swalk+0x131 /sys/src/lib9p/srv.c:334 i=0x00000000 swalk(srv=0x0001813c,r=0x00036250) /sys/src/lib9p/srv.c:303 called from srv+0x182 /sys/src/lib9p/srv.c:711 srv(srv=0x0001813c) /sys/src/lib9p/srv.c:692 called from _post2+0x47 /sys/src/lib9p/_post.c:39 _post2(v=0x0001813c) /sys/src/lib9p/_post.c:31 called from launcher386+0x10 /sys/src/libthread/386.c:10 s=0x0001813c launcher386(arg=0x0001813c,f=0x000125dd) /sys/src/libthread/386.c:7 called from 0xfefefefe ?file?:0 acid: I thought that was pretty bizarre. Anyway, acme continues to crash, and now I get this, as well: acme: bufread: internal error: '/lib/font/bit/lucidasans/lsr.14.0' does not exist I don't recall having seen that previously. Also, `win' is behaving pretty bizarrely; if I type a command in a ``win'' window, I get: ``rc: note: '', a Peter face, the rc dies, and the window hangs. This is using the latest code from sources; I pulled last night and rebuilt everything: userland and the kernel, this morning. I've had a really really terrible two and a half weeks and so havn't looked into any of this myself. Anyone else have any ideas? - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 10 06:52:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 10 06:52:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8310 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Feb 2003 06:52:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8306 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2003 06:52:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Feb 2003 06:52:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 26B1419A0C; Sun, 9 Feb 2003 16:52:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 32CCB199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Feb 2003 16:51:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Feb 9 16:51:06 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Sun Feb 9 16:51:03 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Okay, who's been playing with the cheese wiz? From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <200302092120.h19LKBM29830@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 16:51:01 -0500 Rob and I fixed some other bugs in acme, but not near the code involved in your Edit 1,$d crash. I cannot reproduce this. I changed lib9p to do a few more checks that the client code is behaving, and your execnet crash shows that lib9p thinks execnet is not behaving. It turns out that actually lib9p is not behaving -- I was trying to clean up this particular detail (whether a walk function should set both fid->qid and *qid), because it always confuses me, and I got confused. I just put out a new srv.c that makes reasonable demands of the clients. I gave up on execnet a long time ago. It's clunky and not clear that the interface should work that way. What do you use it for? (I'm just curious.) Copy /386/bin/execnet off of sources and you'll be happy. It doesn't surprise me that win is broken. I always forget to recompile it because it's not in the /sys/src tree. rc: note: peterface is an artifact of an old lib9p bug that I must have reintroduced. I will have a look. I pushed the lib9p changes out on Friday and have been slowly recompiling binaries for sources as I know they're okay. I'm going crazy trying to keep my laptop, emelie (our internal fs), and sources all in sync (ironic, I know). You picked an unfortunate time to recompile the world. ;-) Sorry for the trouble. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 10 09:57:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 10 09:57:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11108 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Feb 2003 09:57:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11101 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2003 09:57:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Feb 2003 09:57:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BAA0D19A00; Sun, 9 Feb 2003 19:57:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3195F19988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Feb 2003 19:56:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <388a07165dab2ebdd0b59db09c53532e@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Marsv presentation at Houston Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:58:16 +0900 > is marsv soft available online? When I think, it's time to deliver it, I'll put it public. Probably soon after the conference at March. I still has minor bugs there, although major one, occasional channel dead lock!, is gone. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 10 10:08:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 10 10:08:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11577 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Feb 2003 10:08:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11573 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2003 10:08:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Feb 2003 10:08:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F74719A25; Sun, 9 Feb 2003 20:08:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CDDCA19A0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Feb 2003 20:07:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.7) with ESMTP id 461226 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 09 Feb 2003 19:07:38 -0600 Message-ID: <64bf51aa33c53a357228f5e63d8a9e68@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Okay, who's been playing with the cheese wiz? From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <200302092120.h19LKBM29830@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 17:07:10 -0800 The win problem has been fixed, as Russ mentioned. The two acme things you report are both the same; the stack trace corresponds to the error message you report from bufread. (The %r that results from calling error() in bufread is worthless; the error is totally internal.) There's a good chance you have a real bug; I've seen stacks like this before and have tracked them down successfully. I can't reproduce your symptom, though. There is a slim chance it's related to a recent change to acme regarding how the undo sequence number is maintained. Slim. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 10 10:23:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 10 10:23:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12070 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Feb 2003 10:23:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12066 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2003 10:23:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Feb 2003 10:23:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8638A19A28; Sun, 9 Feb 2003 20:23:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 102BE19A0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Feb 2003 20:22:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Marsv presentation at Houston From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:23:33 +0900 > I still has minor bugs there, s/has/have/ Forgive my broken Japanglish. I mean I'm fighting or competing with time... Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 10 11:10:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 10 11:10:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13574 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Feb 2003 11:10:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13570 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2003 11:10:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Feb 2003 11:10:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AA2CA19A19; Sun, 9 Feb 2003 21:10:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CCF4A199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Feb 2003 21:09:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h1A28rt32718 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Feb 2003 21:08:53 -0500 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] laptop sound Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 21:08:53 -0500 (EST) Anyone have any luck getting sound working on a laptop? I have a TP 600E I'ld like to have the sound working on. Supposing I can dig (and clean) up a linux driver for the chip, can anyone provide tips for porting the driver to 9? Cheers, Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 10 13:19:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 10 13:19:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17148 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Feb 2003 13:19:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17144 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2003 13:19:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Feb 2003 13:19:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F38F719A0C; Sun, 9 Feb 2003 23:19:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9ADF1199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Feb 2003 23:18:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Okay, who's been playing with the cheese wiz? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 13:19:21 +0900 > acme: bufread: internal error: '/lib/font/bit/lucidasans/lsr.14.0' does not exist I saw this error message through our developement. I thought it may concern with thread(2), not intended different thread was attacked? Probably, I'm say something fool... kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 10 16:55:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 10 16:55:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24305 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Feb 2003 16:55:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24300 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2003 16:55:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Feb 2003 16:55:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2853019A05; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 02:55:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 22A8319992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 02:54:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h1A7shBM028002 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Feb 2003 23:54:44 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <55f1bed6426a07da166ca8c370a34065@centurytel.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Skip Tavakkolian" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-dtbyorvyqwfearghzdyfaitpsq" Subject: [9fans] Digital Camera filesystem Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 00:05:35 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-dtbyorvyqwfearghzdyfaitpsq Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I started writing this simple fs as a learning tool for myself. Dcfs (dcfs.c) provides a read-only directory for contents of a digital camera. The hard part was already done by Forsyth when he ported PhotoPC. The PhotoPC package (by Crosser and Lightner) provides all the low level i/o functions. Dcfs uses the functions in eph.c from this package. The ability to 'ls' for images, and 'cp' or 'page' them is more intuitive than trying to remember all the photopc syntax. I've only tested it on my own camera, a Sanyo. It is minimal but I find it is useful enough to put it out here. Feel free to send me your feedback, critique or bug reports. To build: 1. Get the PhotoPC package for Plan9 from Charles Forsyth's software page at: http://www.caldo.demon.co.uk/plan9/soft/ 2. unpack the .tgz file, and run mk in the photopc directory. 3. Create a directory parallel to the photopc directory. 4. put dcfs.c there. 5. compile it like this: term% 8c dcfs.c term% 8l -o dcfs dcfs.8 ../photopc/eph.8 -l9p usage: dcfs [-D] [-S srvname] [-m mtpt] [-s speed] [-l device] --upas-dtbyorvyqwfearghzdyfaitpsq Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=dcfs.c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit /* All the low level routines for talking to the camera and what registers to look at and poke at are supplied in the PhotoPC package. PhotoPC is the work of Eugene G. Crosser and Bruce D. Lightner. We need Charles Forsyth's port of PhotoPC to Plan9. It is available at: http://www.caldo.demon.co.uk/plan9/soft/ The fs part is my doing. Send the bug reports to me: fst@9netics.com The fs has only been tested on my Sanyo VPC-X360. The eventual goal is to have an fs with this general layout: ctl # for commands to the camera -- eventually stills/ pic01 pic02 ... seqs/ seq01 seq02 ... clips/ clip01 clip02 ... reading ctl should perhaps return the camera ID information, etc. commands that can be written to ctl should be: snap - take a snapshot speed xxx - set port speed port xxx - ??? set to a different port. Not sure about this ??? for now, just build the tree upfront based on the current number of images in the camera, and make the thing read only. don't supply close and so the buffers for the actual content will be around after the first time it is read, so it works sort of like a cache. */ #include #include #include #include #include #include #include <9p.h> /* these definitions are needed for eph_io.h */ #ifndef nil #define nil ((void*)0) #endif #define NULL ((void*)0) typedef long off_t; typedef long size_t; typedef long time_t; #include "../photopc/eph_io.h" static long speed = MAX_SPEED; static char *device = "/dev/eia0"; typedef struct Camfile Camfile; struct Camfile { char *data; int len; /* actual length of 'data' */ int slot; /* id to poke into reg 12 */ }; static void fsattach(Req *); static void fsread(Req *); static void fscleanup(Srv*); static void dcfscreatefile(char *, Camfile *, Dir *); Srv dcfs = { .attach= fsattach, .read= fsread, .end= fscleanup, }; static int probe(eph_iob *iob) { long ret; if (eph_getint(iob, 1, &ret)) return -1; else return 0; } static int bldidir(void) { Dir d; char fname[256]; Tm *tm; Camfile *c = 0; char *buffer; long bufsize; long res, max; register int i, j, k; eph_iob *iob = (eph_iob *) dcfs.aux; if (chatty9p) fprint(2, "getting image count\n"); if (eph_getint(iob, 10, &max)) { return 0; } if (chatty9p) fprint(2, "image count: %lud\n", max); for (j = 1; j <= max; j++) { /* set image index */ if (eph_setint(iob, 4, j) != 0) { return 0; } /* get image size */ if (eph_getint(iob,12, &res) != 0) { if (chatty9p) fprint(2, "eph_getint failed image size(reg 12), index(%d)\n", j); return 0; } d.length = (int) res; /* Dir:length */ /* get image creation time */ /* goofyass way this library works, you've got to malloc all buffers */ bufsize=32; buffer = emalloc9p(bufsize); if (eph_getvar(iob, 47, (char**)&buffer, &bufsize) != 0) { sysfatal("can't get the image mtime"); } /* bytes 20-24 are creation time (UNIX format) */ if (chatty9p) fprint(2, "extracting image date/time\n"); for (res = 0, i = 20, k = 0; i < 24; i++, k += 8) { res += (long) buffer[i] << k; } free(buffer); if (res == -1L) res = time(0); d.atime = d.mtime = (int) res; /* Dir:mtime */ d.mode = 0444; /* read only */ tm = gmtime(res); sprint(fname, "stills/%4.4d%2.2d%2.2d_%3.3d.jpg", 1900+tm->year, tm->mon+1, tm->mday, j); c = emalloc9p(sizeof *c); c->len = d.length; c->slot = j; if (chatty9p) fprint(2, "creating file %s\n", fname); dcfscreatefile(fname, c, &d); } return 1; } static int fetchimg(Camfile *cf) { off_t got; int rc=-1; eph_iob *iob = (eph_iob *) dcfs.aux; assert(cf->len > 0); assert(cf->data); if (rc = eph_setint(iob, 4, (long) cf->slot)) { if (chatty9p) fprint(2, "eph_setint(reg=4,slot=%d) returns %d\n", cf->slot, rc); return -1; } got = cf->len; if (rc = eph_getvar(iob, 14, &cf->data, &got)) { if (chatty9p) fprint(2, "eph_getvar(reg=14) returns %d\n", rc); free(cf->data); cf->data = 0; return -1; } assert(got == cf->len); return 0; } static void ecreatefile(File *root, char *name, char *user, ulong mode, void *aux) { File *f; f = createfile(root, name, user, mode, aux); if(f == nil) sysfatal("creating %s", name); } static int caminit(void) { eph_iob *iob = (eph_iob *) dcfs.aux; if (eph_open(iob, device, speed) != 0) { if (chatty9p) fprint(2, "eph_open failed\n"); return 0; } if (probe(iob) != 0) { if (chatty9p) fprint(2, "probe failed\n"); eph_close(iob, 1); /* turn off */ return 0; } return 1; } static void camfini(void) { eph_close((eph_iob*) dcfs.aux, 1); /* turn the camera off and close */ } static void fsattach(Req *r) { char *spec; eph_iob *iob = 0; spec = r->ifcall.aname; /* special args to mount? */ if (spec && spec[0]) { /* we don't expect any */ respond(r, "invalid attach specifier"); return; } if (! caminit()) { respond(r, "can't initialize camera"); return; } if (bldidir()) { iob = (eph_iob *) dcfs.aux; iob->debug = chatty9p; r->fid->qid = dcfs.tree->root->qid; r->ofcall.qid = r->fid->qid; respond(r, nil); } else respond(r, "can't get image list"); camfini(); } static void fsread(Req *r) { Camfile *cf; vlong offset; long count; eph_iob *iob = 0; int rc = 0; cf = r->fid->file->aux; offset = r->ifcall.offset; count = r->ifcall.count; if (! cf->data) { if (! caminit()) { respond(r, "can't initialize camera"); return; } cf->data = emalloc9p(cf->len); rc = fetchimg(cf); camfini(); if (rc != 0) { respond(r, "fetchimg failed"); return; } } if(offset >= cf->len){ r->ofcall.count = 0; respond(r, nil); return; } if(offset+count >= cf->len) count = cf->len - offset; memmove(r->ofcall.data, cf->data+offset, count); r->ofcall.count = count; respond(r, nil); } static void fscleanup(Srv *srv) { if (srv->aux) eph_free((eph_iob *) srv->aux); } static void fsdestroyfile(File *f) { Camfile *cf; if (chatty9p) fprint(2, "clunk\n"); cf = f->aux; if (cf) { if (cf->data) free(cf->data); free(cf); } } static File* createpath(File *f, char *name, char *u, ulong m) { char *p; File *nf; if(chatty9p) fprint(2, "createpath %s\n", name); incref(f); while(f && (p = strchr(name, '/'))) { *p = '\0'; if(strcmp(name, "") != 0 && strcmp(name, ".") != 0){ /* this would be a race if we were multithreaded */ incref(f); /* so walk doesn't kill it immediately on failure */ if((nf = walkfile(f, name)) == nil) nf = createfile(f, name, u, DMDIR|0777, nil); decref(f); f = nf; } *p = '/'; name = p+1; } if(f == nil) return nil; incref(f); if((nf = walkfile(f, name)) == nil) nf = createfile(f, name, u, m, nil); decref(f); return nf; } static void dcfscreatefile(char *name, Camfile *photo, Dir *d) { File *f; /* f = createpath(dcfs.tree->root, name, d->uid, d->mode); */ f = createpath(dcfs.tree->root, name, "dcfs", d->mode); if(f == nil) sysfatal("creating %s: %r", name); free(f->gid); /* f->gid = estrdup9p(d->gid); */ f->gid = "dcfs"; f->aux = photo; f->mtime = d->mtime; f->length = d->length; decref(f); } void usage(void) { fprint(2, "usage: dcfs [-D] [-S srvname] [-m mtpt] [-s speed] [-l device]\n"); exits("usage"); } void main(int argc, char **argv) { char *srvname = nil; char *mtpt = nil; Qid q; if (! (dcfs.tree = alloctree(nil, nil, DMDIR|0555, fsdestroyfile))) sysfatal("creating tree"); ecreatefile(dcfs.tree->root, "stills", "dcfs", DMDIR|0555, nil); /* later when I figure out how to get these out of the beast */ ecreatefile(dcfs.tree->root, "sequence", "dcfs", DMDIR|0555, nil); ecreatefile(dcfs.tree->root, "clips", "dcfs", DMDIR|0555, nil); ARGBEGIN{ case 'D': chatty9p++; break; case 'S': srvname = EARGF(usage()); break; case 'l': device=ARGF(); break; case 's': speed=atol(ARGF()); break; case 'm': mtpt = EARGF(usage()); break; default: usage(); }ARGEND; if(argc) usage(); if(srvname == nil && mtpt == nil) sysfatal("Missing both -S and -m options. Must provide at least one."); if(chatty9p) fprint(2, "dcfs.nopipe %d srvname %s mtpt %s\n", dcfs.nopipe, srvname, mtpt); dcfs.aux = (void*) eph_new(nil, nil, nil, 0); if (! dcfs.aux) { if (chatty9p) fprint(2, "eph_new failed\n"); sysfatal("eph_new failed"); } postmountsrv(&dcfs, srvname, mtpt, MREPL|MCREATE); exits(0); } --upas-dtbyorvyqwfearghzdyfaitpsq-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 10 17:23:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 10 17:23:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25016 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Feb 2003 17:23:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25012 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2003 17:23:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Feb 2003 17:23:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F14BD19A05; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 03:23:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2C67819A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 03:22:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2fcefdbc2238ef9a73a666b0954e5df4@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] laptop sound From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-kdwyfgymnsaiitwumwpfmgxvys" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:22:48 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-kdwyfgymnsaiitwumwpfmgxvys Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One way to do the port is to look first at the Plan 9 driver (eg for the sb), then import code from the driver you have as you see it fits. Good luck. --upas-kdwyfgymnsaiitwumwpfmgxvys Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Mon Feb 10 03:10:25 MET 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AA2CA19A19; Sun, 9 Feb 2003 21:10:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CCF4A199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Feb 2003 21:09:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h1A28rt32718 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Feb 2003 21:08:53 -0500 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] laptop sound Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 21:08:53 -0500 (EST) Anyone have any luck getting sound working on a laptop? I have a TP 600E I'ld like to have the sound working on. Supposing I can dig (and clean) up a linux driver for the chip, can anyone provide tips for porting the driver to 9? Cheers, Sam --upas-kdwyfgymnsaiitwumwpfmgxvys-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 10 17:34:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 10 17:34:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25307 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Feb 2003 17:34:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25303 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2003 17:34:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Feb 2003 17:34:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 875EA19A19; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 03:34:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D6A119988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 03:33:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <5b948114be398d18776c5668ef24157b@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Looking for namespace details From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <3E45339D.7070008@bar.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:32:54 +0100 Try also with http://plan9.escet.urjc.es/who/nemo/9.ps.gz It describes how the kernel works, including namespaces (although for an old version of the kernel). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 10 18:02:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 10 18:02:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26037 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Feb 2003 18:02:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26033 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2003 18:02:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Feb 2003 18:02:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 98EC119A26; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 04:02:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from netscape.com (c3po.aoltw.net [64.236.137.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F248419A0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 04:01:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from yoda.mcom.com (yoda.ie.office.aol.com [10.128.72.204]) by netscape.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id h1A90u511812 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 01:00:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from will551 ([10.128.74.77]) by yoda.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id HA351H00.16Q for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:00:53 +0000 Message-ID: <017201c2d0e2$e7273d50$4d4a800a@will551> From: "Conor Williams" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200302091005.h19A5d2A018648@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Subject: [9fans] mpg123 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:00:47 -0000 ne one use mpg123? I got it compiled but now im getting: mpg123 107: suicide: sys: fp: division by zero: fppc=0x6389 status=0xb9b4 pc=0x00006380 when I try and play anything using the command mpg123 -s pc.mp3 > /dev/audio any one got Tad Hunts email address - thats the guy who ported over mpg123 to plan 9? tx will551 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 10 18:32:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 10 18:32:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26584 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Feb 2003 18:32:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26580 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2003 18:32:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Feb 2003 18:32:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8890C19A2C; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 04:32:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from netscape.com (c3po.aoltw.net [64.236.137.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C79C119A27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 04:31:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from yoda.mcom.com (yoda.ie.office.aol.com [10.128.72.204]) by netscape.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id h1A9Vm513111 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 01:31:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from will551 ([10.128.74.77]) by yoda.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id HA36GW00.P6O for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:31:44 +0000 Message-ID: <02ba01c2d0e7$3731d270$4d4a800a@will551> From: "Conor Williams" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <8466144f43ada1036c627b7c635dae76@plan9.bell-labs.com> <09a001c2cb8f$b215cc10$4d4a800a@will551> <0a7801c2cc2c$c4f96060$4d4a800a@will551> Subject: Re: [9fans] S3 graphics card prob MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:31:40 -0000 turns out that wsys error was a problem with my profile - the case:(cpu) gets run when u run the cpu command and there was an error in this part . . . > Im now have a problem running the cpu -h command > on my text based diskless terminal. I'm getting the error: > cat: cant open /mnt/term/env/wsys: does not exist. > this gets fixed when 8 1/2 starts - is there a way around > this so I can run cpu -h without 8 1/2 -- will551 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 10 18:35:15 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 10 18:35:15 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26610 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Feb 2003 18:35:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26606 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2003 18:35:15 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Feb 2003 18:35:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 72E5A19A2D; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 04:35:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from netscape.com (c3po.aoltw.net [64.236.137.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E4F5D19A27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 04:34:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from yoda.mcom.com (yoda.ie.office.aol.com [10.128.72.204]) by netscape.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id h1A9Y4513228 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 01:34:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from will551 ([10.128.74.77]) by yoda.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id HA36KO00.C6B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:34:00 +0000 Message-ID: <02c801c2d0e7$88599430$4d4a800a@will551> From: "Conor Williams" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <8f58b31f5fde57f8d0bcbac4265b5652@plan9.bell-labs.com> <1043528161.1773.47.camel@dimension> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Subject: [9fans] telnet problem Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:33:56 -0000 hi im getting a problem telnetting into my auth server - % telnet 10.5.1.18 connected to tcp!10.5.1.18!telnet on /net/tcp/0 user: bootes authentication failure: auth server protocol botch my cpu command works fine - ne one know how to fix this? tx will551 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 10 19:12:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 10 19:12:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27264 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Feb 2003 19:12:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27260 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2003 19:12:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Feb 2003 19:12:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7EA4519A2C; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 05:12:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6BEC219A2D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 05:11:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18iAnC-0001Js-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:04:02 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: alfonso acosta Message-ID: <3e452d2e$1_3@news.arrakis.es> Organization: Arrakis Servicios y Comunicaciones SLU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] problems with nvidia geforce2Go card and ps2 mouse Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:03:55 GMT Hi: I tried to install plan9 on my Dell inspiron 8200 laptop. When booting everything seems to go fine except: South bridge 8086, 248C not found rio starts but the display shows lots of thin lines mixed up with everything else. I know that the wiki page of PC hardware says the geforce chipset isnt supported but maybe the problem can be solved easily (at least the display shows someting). Appart from that, the pointer doesnt move from the top left side of the installation program window. Thanks in advance: Alfonso Acosta PS: heres my plan9.ini file *nomp=1 distname=plan9 partition=new nobootprompt=local!/bzroot #console=0 monitor=xga vgasize=1024x768x32 mouseport=ps2 bootfile=fd0!dos!9pcflop.gz installurl=http://204.178.31.2/magic/9down4e/compressed/1044646286.gxq93xmd85ajkpfsbxdsqxwur3rbxvxm From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 10 19:14:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 10 19:14:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27283 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Feb 2003 19:14:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27279 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2003 19:14:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Feb 2003 19:14:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E08C319A2F; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 05:14:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A36DC19A27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 05:13:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18iAoB-0001LL-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:05:03 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3E46ACD7.50802@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200302091005.h19A5d2A018648@localhost.localdomain> Subject: Re: [9fans] what a mess the Unix world has become Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:04:16 GMT Aharon Robbins wrote: >>I think that one really should be able to do "test -r foo && cat foo" >>without cat failing because of permissions. Yes, that was the intention. But the question comes into even sharper focus if you try to test for writability. What OS facility is there for determining whether a file would be writable without actually modifying the file? The answer: access(2). Not a mere examination of the mode bits; not a trial write to the file. When something like NFS is bolted onto Unix, access(2) is one of the things that needs to be made to work right; if NFS has complicated access rules then that is what access() needs to tap into. (Better in the filesystem support than in user-mode utilities.) VAX/VMS had a "probe" call that, as I recall, checked whether an operation would succeed but didn't do the operation. Of course, all such facilities are somewhat limited in that the condition of the file might change between a probe and actually doing the operation. There are transaction-oriented filesystems (MUMPS comes to mind) that cluster requests until a "commit" and implement a well-defined rollback scheme when the commit is unsuccessful. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 10 19:21:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 10 19:21:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27401 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Feb 2003 19:21:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27397 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2003 19:21:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Feb 2003 19:21:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C33D519A27; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 05:21:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5911C19A27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 05:20:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18iAoA-0001LF-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:05:02 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Ralph Corderoy Message-ID: <2bb4.3e468dd7.9a51c@blake.inputplus.co.uk> Organization: InputPlus Ltd. References: <1592.3e43a5f2.6d80a@blake.inputplus.co.uk>, Subject: Re: [9fans] troff book (was: pic generators?) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:04:05 GMT Hi Sam, > Now that this page is brought to my attention, I realize that the book > I've been learning my troff from isn't in the list. I picked it up on > Ebay from a UK bookseller. It's titled _Unix System Document > Processing Guide_ and has no authors listed. The publisher is Western > Electric. > > Anyone heard of this one? The writing is quite good, and rather > comical at times. I'll search for more details on it and add it in when I do the next batch update. Thanks for the pointer. Cheers, -- Ralph Corderoy. http://inputplus.co.uk/ralph/ http://troff.org/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 10 19:21:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 10 19:21:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27409 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Feb 2003 19:21:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27405 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2003 19:21:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Feb 2003 19:21:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8479E19A67; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 05:21:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8C92119A31 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 05:20:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18iAnC-0001Jm-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:04:02 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Alex Walker Message-ID: <3E4460CE.5030009@usenix.org> Organization: USENIX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] FAST '03, 2nd USENIX Conference on File and Storage Technologies Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: alex@usenix.org List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:03:43 GMT Dear Colleague, I am writing to invite you to attend the 2nd USENIX Conference on File and Storage Technologies (FAST '03), March 31 through April 2, 2003, in beautiful San Francisco, California. http://www.usenix.org/events/fast03/ Also, if you have work you would like to share or a cool idea that's not quite ready for publication, send a one- or two-paragraph summary to fast03wips@usenix.org by March 1, 2003. We are particularly interested in presenting students' work. A schedule of presentations will be posted at the conference, and the speakers will be notified in advance. Work-in-Progress reports are five-minute presentations; File systems and storage continue to be active focus areas for researchers and technologists in operating systems, computer architecture, distributed systems, networking, mobile computing, and computational science. FAST '03 will bring together over 250 storage specialists from all of these areas in a unified, high-quality forum. FAST '03 will bring together over 200 storage specialists from all of these areas in a unified, high-quality forum. The FAST '03 program includes 18 technical papers carefully selected from a pool of 67 submissions by a program committee of 16 leading researchers. These papers represent some of the outstanding work in the area, ranging from RAID design to secure wide-area file sharing. The technical presentations will be given by top researchers from both academia and industry. The program features a keynote address by Dr. John Wilkes of Hewlett-Packard Labs, an HP Fellow and ACM Fellow with 15 years of research leadership in self-managing large-scale storage. Technical presentations will be given by top researchers from both academia and industry, including Dave Belanger, Chief Scientist, AT&T Research; EMC's David Black, IETF chair for Internet Storage; CMU's Garth Gibson, founder and CTO of Panasas; Steve Kleiman, CTO of Network Appliance; Reagan Moore, Associate Director of Data-Intensive Computing at the San Diego Supercomputer Center; and Tom Ruwart of I/O Performance, Inc. FAST '03 promises to be an exciting conference presenting the best of current research and a strong vision of the future. Please join us in San Francisco. Jeffrey S. Chase, Duke University FAST '03 Program Chair P.S. Thanks to SNIA and HP for their support of student stipends to attend the conference. -- Alex Walker Production Editor USENIX Association 2560 Ninth Street, Suite 215 Berkeley, CA 94710 510/528-8649 x33 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 10 20:59:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 10 20:59:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28926 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Feb 2003 20:59:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28922 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2003 20:59:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Feb 2003 20:59:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5975C19A19; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 06:59:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1D6CA19988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 06:58:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <43f501b9d5e342678de110cc46b75ef9@plan9.bell-labs.com> X-Plan9-Fortune: I hope some animal never bores a hole in my head and lays its eggs in my brain, because later you might think you're having a good idea but it's just eggs hatching. - Jack Handey From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] what a mess the Unix world has become In-Reply-To: <3E46ACD7.50802@null.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 06:58:50 -0500 > What OS facility is there for determining whether a file > would be writable without actually modifying the file? umm, open(2)? this doesn't handle the AEXEC|AREAD or AEXEC|AWRITE cases particularly well, and it's not as fast as traditional access, but it gives good answers. #include #include int access(char *name, int mode) { int fd; Dir *db; static char omode[] = { 0, OEXEC, OWRITE, ORDWR, OREAD, OEXEC, /* only approximate */ ORDWR, ORDWR /* only approximate */ }; if(mode == AEXIST){ db = dirstat(name); free(db); if(db != nil) return 0; return -1; } fd = open(name, omode[mode&7]); if(fd >= 0){ close(fd); return 0; } return -1; } From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 10 21:00:16 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 10 21:00:16 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28937 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Feb 2003 21:00:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28933 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2003 21:00:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Feb 2003 21:00:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3959119988; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 07:00:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 22DF719A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 06:59:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: X-Plan9-Fortune: The true ideologist does not let mere facticity impinge on his perfect understanding of the universe. From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet problem In-Reply-To: <02c801c2d0e7$88599430$4d4a800a@will551> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 06:59:33 -0500 your auth server does not know how to contact itself. run auth/debug on the auth server and it should confirm this. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 10 21:03:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 10 21:03:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28975 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Feb 2003 21:03:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28971 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2003 21:03:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Feb 2003 21:03:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ED3C619A2C; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 07:03:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B1BDC19A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 07:02:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: X-Plan9-Fortune: Surprises unlikely in Indiana. From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mpg123 In-Reply-To: <017201c2d0e2$e7273d50$4d4a800a@will551> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 07:02:36 -0500 try http://pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~rsc/mp3dec.tgz. it's a (possibly different) port of mpg123 that works well for me. i don't remember who did it originally. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 10 21:07:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 10 21:07:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29040 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Feb 2003 21:07:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29036 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2003 21:07:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Feb 2003 21:07:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 19FAB19A31; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 07:07:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3CC0919A2D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 07:06:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2a28db06755ecef5aceed491ee584654@plan9.bell-labs.com> X-Plan9-Fortune: Don't get shipwrecked as you enter port. From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] laptop sound In-Reply-To: <2fcefdbc2238ef9a73a666b0954e5df4@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 07:06:11 -0500 I had a look at that family of sound chips at one point (it's a CS####) and all the drivers I found were very complicated. It's a shame the SB8 is what everyone is backward compatible with rather than the 16. It seems there are very few sound cards anymore that let you just play sound without requiring you to set up oodles and oodles of extra stuff. At the moment I think the best way to get sound is to use a USB audio adapter (they may be complicated, but they're standard, and we have a driver), though on the 600E that may not be an option. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 10 22:12:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 10 22:12:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29819 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Feb 2003 22:12:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29815 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2003 22:12:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Feb 2003 22:12:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4412C19A0D; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 08:12:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9F84919A04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 08:11:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3d4c69fd5fe4e31a00c344b8faf39623@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Okay, who's been playing with the cheese wiz? From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 13:14:18 0000 > I gave up on execnet a long time ago. It's clunky > and not clear that the interface should work that > way. What do you use it for? (I'm just curious.) for what it was used for, i couldn't see what was wrong with just posting a named pipe to the command into /srv, assuming that the command could serve 9p on its standard input. in fact, it would seem to me to be a good idea to let all file server commands serve 9p through stdin; then they can be mounted simply with: mount >{command} /mnt/xxx the command doesn't have to parse all those mount options or know where it might be mounted, and you don't have to worry about backgrounding it and then worrying whether it might not have mounted in time. (plus it's more versatile). the original execnet stuff (assuming i understood what it was about) could have been done with something like: postsrv u9fs >{ssh ny 'u9fs -na none -u $USER -l $HOME/tmp/u9fs.log'} (assuming the following command; maybe there is a similar command somewhere else?): /* postsrv.c */ #include #include void main(int argc, char**argv) { char buf[256]; int fd, srvfd; if (argc != 3) { fprint(2, "usage: postsrv srvname file\n"); exits("usage"); } fd = open(argv[2], ORDWR); if (fd == -1) { fprint(2, "postsrv: cannot open %s: %r\n", argv[2]); exits("error"); } snprint(buf, sizeof(buf), "/srv/%s", argv[1]); srvfd = create(buf, OWRITE, 0666); if (srvfd == -1) { fprint(2, "postsrv: cannot create %s: %r\n", buf); exits("error"); } if (fprint(srvfd, "%d", fd) == -1) { fprint(2, "postsrv: cannot post %d: %r\n", fd); exits("error"); } } From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 10 22:37:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 10 22:37:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30312 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Feb 2003 22:37:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30308 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2003 22:37:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Feb 2003 22:37:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 922B119A0B; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 08:37:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E5A4219988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 08:36:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Feb 10 08:36:14 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Mon Feb 10 08:36:12 EST 2003 Message-ID: <6e01499f169b0756f8b2ff199514cee2@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Okay, who's been playing with the cheese wiz? From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <3d4c69fd5fe4e31a00c344b8faf39623@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 08:36:10 -0500 srv -e serves execnet's original purpose now. it's nice to have a wrapper that creates the service if necessary, recreates it on hangup, and so on. mount >{command} /mnt/xxx strikes me as an idiom that is clumsy at best. every time i see it, it takes a few minutes to remember why it works at all -- the syntax would have you believe that the pipe would be open only for writing. if there were better notation, you might convince me. also there's a lot to be said for defaults. there is one real problem, which is that the servers would all need to know to rfork(RFNAMEG) at start, so that they don't hold up their own service ref counts. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 10 22:38:14 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 10 22:38:14 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30321 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Feb 2003 22:38:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30317 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2003 22:38:14 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Feb 2003 22:38:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 57CF019A28; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 08:38:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7AB5019988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 08:37:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8e1a7050bd5014cd657d962554cae0d0@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] laptop sound In-Reply-To: <2a28db06755ecef5aceed491ee584654@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-jdxteoaxetfelrdgzcbvadjqrf" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 08:37:51 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-jdxteoaxetfelrdgzcbvadjqrf Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On that note, admitting our failure at sound, I'ld like to put in a plug for the 'xitel hifi-link dg2'. It's a USB device that has optical out. I use it with a 10 meter fiber to drive my stereo. --upas-jdxteoaxetfelrdgzcbvadjqrf Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Feb 10 07:07:17 EST 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Mon Feb 10 07:07:15 EST 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EBC0619A2F; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 07:07:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3CC0919A2D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 07:06:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2a28db06755ecef5aceed491ee584654@plan9.bell-labs.com> X-Plan9-Fortune: Don't get shipwrecked as you enter port. From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] laptop sound In-Reply-To: <2fcefdbc2238ef9a73a666b0954e5df4@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 07:06:11 -0500 I had a look at that family of sound chips at one point (it's a CS####) and all the drivers I found were very complicated. It's a shame the SB8 is what everyone is backward compatible with rather than the 16. It seems there are very few sound cards anymore that let you just play sound without requiring you to set up oodles and oodles of extra stuff. At the moment I think the best way to get sound is to use a USB audio adapter (they may be complicated, but they're standard, and we have a driver), though on the 600E that may not be an option. Russ --upas-jdxteoaxetfelrdgzcbvadjqrf-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 10 23:15:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 10 23:15:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30973 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Feb 2003 23:15:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30969 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2003 23:15:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Feb 2003 23:15:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BD11D19A05; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:15:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from 9fs.org (cotswold.demon.co.uk [194.222.75.186]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3142A19A04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:14:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from 9fs.org ([192.168.100.103]) by 9fs.org; Mon Feb 10 14:16:39 GMT 2003 Received: from 192.168.100.111 ([192.168.100.111]) by 9fs.org; Mon Feb 10 14:16:39 GMT 2003 From: "Nigel Roles" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: RE: [9fans] mpg123 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <017201c2d0e2$e7273d50$4d4a800a@will551> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 14:14:56 -0000 Because it computes (around ine 170 of layer3.c) 1 - tan(3 * Pi / 4) which is 0 and then a series of values which involve dividing by it. In my experience, most mp3 code available on lunix is full of this kind of stuff. It's no wonder that if you port an encoder or decoder from one platform to another you get a different answer. It's only because the x86 FPU gives an answer to tan(3 * PI / 4) "that is almost, but not quite, entirely unlike" -1 that this works at all. Write out 100 times, "floating point numbers are approximate numbers". I would guess that row 9 of the table is not used, so that putting if (i == 9) continue; in the loop will fix it. -----Original Message----- From: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu [mailto:9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu]On Behalf Of Conor Williams Sent: 10 February 2003 09:01 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] mpg123 ne one use mpg123? I got it compiled but now im getting: mpg123 107: suicide: sys: fp: division by zero: fppc=0x6389 status=0xb9b4 pc=0x00006380 when I try and play anything using the command mpg123 -s pc.mp3 > /dev/audio any one got Tad Hunts email address - thats the guy who ported over mpg123 to plan 9? tx will551 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 10 23:35:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 10 23:35:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31274 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Feb 2003 23:35:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31270 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2003 23:35:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Feb 2003 23:35:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C907F19A0B; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:35:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D298119A0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:34:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <838b9e71b3d2c9e015ed50b2bd73c32c@plan9.escet.urjc.es> From: Fco.J.Ballesteros To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: RE: [9fans] mpg123 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-tvfentturctgyzuhxkgbzazglp" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 15:34:04 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-tvfentturctgyzuhxkgbzazglp Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The mad player uses fixed point and is quite optimized. I think the ported version is in our web page. It's what I use in the bitsy and works properly there (needless to say on a pc). --upas-tvfentturctgyzuhxkgbzazglp Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Mon Feb 10 15:15:23 MET 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BD11D19A05; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:15:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from 9fs.org (cotswold.demon.co.uk [194.222.75.186]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3142A19A04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:14:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from 9fs.org ([192.168.100.103]) by 9fs.org; Mon Feb 10 14:16:39 GMT 2003 Received: from 192.168.100.111 ([192.168.100.111]) by 9fs.org; Mon Feb 10 14:16:39 GMT 2003 From: "Nigel Roles" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: RE: [9fans] mpg123 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <017201c2d0e2$e7273d50$4d4a800a@will551> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 14:14:56 -0000 Because it computes (around ine 170 of layer3.c) 1 - tan(3 * Pi / 4) which is 0 and then a series of values which involve dividing by it. In my experience, most mp3 code available on lunix is full of this kind of stuff. It's no wonder that if you port an encoder or decoder from one platform to another you get a different answer. It's only because the x86 FPU gives an answer to tan(3 * PI / 4) "that is almost, but not quite, entirely unlike" -1 that this works at all. Write out 100 times, "floating point numbers are approximate numbers". I would guess that row 9 of the table is not used, so that putting if (i == 9) continue; in the loop will fix it. -----Original Message----- From: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu [mailto:9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu]On Behalf Of Conor Williams Sent: 10 February 2003 09:01 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] mpg123 ne one use mpg123? I got it compiled but now im getting: mpg123 107: suicide: sys: fp: division by zero: fppc=0x6389 status=0xb9b4 pc=0x00006380 when I try and play anything using the command mpg123 -s pc.mp3 > /dev/audio any one got Tad Hunts email address - thats the guy who ported over mpg123 to plan 9? tx will551 --upas-tvfentturctgyzuhxkgbzazglp-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 10 23:54:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 10 23:54:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31478 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Feb 2003 23:54:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31474 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2003 23:54:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Feb 2003 23:54:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1A41519A05; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:54:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4595B19A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:53:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1AEr2Go022876 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 15:53:02 +0100 (MET) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1AEr07U003360 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 15:53:00 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id h1AEr0Z20581 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 15:53:00 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200302101453.h1AEr0Z20581@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mpg123 In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 10 Feb 2003 15:34:04 +0100." <838b9e71b3d2c9e015ed50b2bd73c32c@plan9.escet.urjc.es> References: <838b9e71b3d2c9e015ed50b2bd73c32c@plan9.escet.urjc.es> From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 15:53:00 +0100 > The mad player uses fixed point and is quite optimized. > I think the ported version is in our web page. > It's what I use in the bitsy and works properly there > (needless to say on a pc). I used it, took it from your web page, but I found that there are some mp3's which it doesn't play but which mpg123 does play. (something to do with mp3 headers?) > Because it computes (around line 170 of layer3.c) > 1 - tan(3 * Pi / 4) which is 0 > and then a series of values which involve dividing > by it. I hacked around this in mpg123 by checking for a divisor of 0.0 and replacing it by something small but unequal to zero. I got away with that but Nigels solution (which I did not try) looks nicer. > I would guess that row 9 of the table is not used, > so that putting > if (i == 9) continue; > in the loop will fix it. Axel. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 11 00:06:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 11 00:06:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31655 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Feb 2003 00:06:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31651 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2003 00:06:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Feb 2003 00:06:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1C21F1999B; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:06:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 70C401999B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:05:44 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: Fco.J.Ballesteros To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mpg123 In-Reply-To: <200302101453.h1AEr0Z20581@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-uvifmkfcdiqbbockusvbnpetfy" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 16:05:27 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-uvifmkfcdiqbbockusvbnpetfy Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You have to compile madplay and not minimad. Minimad does almost no error recovery at all. --upas-uvifmkfcdiqbbockusvbnpetfy Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Mon Feb 10 15:54:23 MET 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1A41519A05; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:54:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4595B19A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:53:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1AEr2Go022876 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 15:53:02 +0100 (MET) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1AEr07U003360 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 15:53:00 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id h1AEr0Z20581 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 15:53:00 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200302101453.h1AEr0Z20581@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mpg123 In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 10 Feb 2003 15:34:04 +0100." <838b9e71b3d2c9e015ed50b2bd73c32c@plan9.escet.urjc.es> References: <838b9e71b3d2c9e015ed50b2bd73c32c@plan9.escet.urjc.es> From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 15:53:00 +0100 > The mad player uses fixed point and is quite optimized. > I think the ported version is in our web page. > It's what I use in the bitsy and works properly there > (needless to say on a pc). I used it, took it from your web page, but I found that there are some mp3's which it doesn't play but which mpg123 does play. (something to do with mp3 headers?) > Because it computes (around line 170 of layer3.c) > 1 - tan(3 * Pi / 4) which is 0 > and then a series of values which involve dividing > by it. I hacked around this in mpg123 by checking for a divisor of 0.0 and replacing it by something small but unequal to zero. I got away with that but Nigels solution (which I did not try) looks nicer. > I would guess that row 9 of the table is not used, > so that putting > if (i == 9) continue; > in the loop will fix it. Axel. --upas-uvifmkfcdiqbbockusvbnpetfy-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 11 00:21:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 11 00:21:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31860 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Feb 2003 00:21:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31856 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2003 00:21:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Feb 2003 00:21:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 743E419A25; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:21:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CFA2419A0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:20:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h1AFK8gp027203 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 08:20:08 -0700 Received: (qmail 639 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2003 08:20:07 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 10 Feb 2003 08:20:07 -0700 Received: (qmail 23250 invoked by uid 3499); 10 Feb 2003 08:20:07 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 10 Feb 2003 08:20:07 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] what a mess the Unix world has become In-Reply-To: <3E46ACD7.50802@null.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 08:20:07 -0700 (MST) On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, Douglas A. Gwyn wrote: >There are > transaction-oriented filesystems (MUMPS comes to mind) > that cluster requests until a "commit" and implement a > well-defined rollback scheme when the commit is > unsuccessful. Actually at some point in the 90s NFS became like that on SunOS (well, minus the rollback system). That was about the time that close could return an error, meaning "remember those writes you did yesterday? Well, some of them may not have worked out, so you probably lost data. Have a nice day." Needless to say, many programs did not quite grasp the concept. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 11 00:54:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 11 00:54:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32172 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Feb 2003 00:54:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32167 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2003 00:54:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Feb 2003 00:54:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3D44419A19; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:54:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from netscape.com (r2d2.aoltw.net [64.236.137.26]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 20BE219A04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:53:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from yoda.mcom.com (yoda.ie.office.aol.com [10.128.72.204]) by netscape.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id h1AFrKY04671 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 07:53:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from will551 ([10.128.74.77]) by yoda.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id HA3O4K00.869 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 15:53:08 +0000 Message-ID: <011001c2d11c$8685f290$4d4a800a@will551> From: "Conor Williams" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <838b9e71b3d2c9e015ed50b2bd73c32c@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Subject: Re: [9fans] mpg123 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 15:53:16 -0000 it doesnt seem to be on the plan9.bell-labs site? have u a url? tx will551 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fco.J.Ballesteros" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 2:34 PM Subject: RE: [9fans] mpg123 > The mad player uses fixed point and is quite optimized. > I think the ported version is in our web page. > It's what I use in the bitsy and works properly there > (needless to say on a pc). > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 11 01:18:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 11 01:18:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32359 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Feb 2003 01:18:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32355 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2003 01:18:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Feb 2003 01:18:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9C36919A26; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 11:18:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id D39DD19A04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 11:17:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] what a mess the Unix world has become From: C H Forsyth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-dtrlvbbhccugwcizbbdporoioh" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 16:19:31 0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-dtrlvbbhccugwcizbbdporoioh Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i don't quite see how they could provide a `commit' effect unless they finally added a Close operation to the clunky protocol. --upas-dtrlvbbhccugwcizbbdporoioh Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@vitanuova.com id 1044892386:10:01085:34; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 15:53:06 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1116109; 10 Feb 2003 15:52 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 515D519A19; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:21:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CFA2419A0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:20:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h1AFK8gp027203 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 08:20:08 -0700 Received: (qmail 639 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2003 08:20:07 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 10 Feb 2003 08:20:07 -0700 Received: (qmail 23250 invoked by uid 3499); 10 Feb 2003 08:20:07 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 10 Feb 2003 08:20:07 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] what a mess the Unix world has become In-Reply-To: <3E46ACD7.50802@null.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 08:20:07 -0700 (MST) On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, Douglas A. Gwyn wrote: >There are > transaction-oriented filesystems (MUMPS comes to mind) > that cluster requests until a "commit" and implement a > well-defined rollback scheme when the commit is > unsuccessful. Actually at some point in the 90s NFS became like that on SunOS (well, minus the rollback system). That was about the time that close could return an error, meaning "remember those writes you did yesterday? Well, some of them may not have worked out, so you probably lost data. Have a nice day." Needless to say, many programs did not quite grasp the concept. ron --upas-dtrlvbbhccugwcizbbdporoioh-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 11 01:25:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 11 01:25:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32433 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Feb 2003 01:25:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32429 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2003 01:25:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Feb 2003 01:25:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A376F19A28; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 11:25:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 982FC19988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 11:24:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01885 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 11:24:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1AGOMM04080 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 11:24:22 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302101624.h1AGOMM04080@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Okay, who's been playing with the cheese wiz? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 09 Feb 2003 16:51:01 EST." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 11:24:22 -0500 > Rob and I fixed some other bugs in acme, but not > near the code involved in your Edit 1,$d crash. > I cannot reproduce this. Hmm; it seems to be related to doing it in a Win window. Maybe it has to do with win being broken; it doesn't seem to affect other windows. > I gave up on execnet a long time ago. It's clunky > and not clear that the interface should work that > way. What do you use it for? (I'm just curious.) > Copy /386/bin/execnet off of sources and you'll > be happy. Thanks, that fixed execnet. I'm using it for dialing u9fs on a Unix machine; for some reason, when I tried srv -e back in the day, it didn't work. Maybe I should investigate it again. > It doesn't surprise me that win is broken. I always > forget to recompile it because it's not in the /sys/src > tree. rc: note: peterface is an artifact of an old lib9p > bug that I must have reintroduced. I will have a look. Okay, thanks. > I pushed the lib9p changes out on Friday and have > been slowly recompiling binaries for sources as > I know they're okay. I'm going crazy trying to keep > my laptop, emelie (our internal fs), and sources all > in sync (ironic, I know). You picked an unfortunate > time to recompile the world. ;-) > > Sorry for the trouble. No problem; it seems I'm the one always causing trouble, anyway. :-) - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 11 01:42:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 11 01:42:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32666 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Feb 2003 01:42:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32662 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2003 01:42:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Feb 2003 01:42:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 514E019A3E; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 11:42:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5FF1619A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 11:41:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: Fco.J.Ballesteros To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mpg123 In-Reply-To: <011001c2d11c$8685f290$4d4a800a@will551> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-nvqbdfnyzmqxtyhwgzwfmzvieg" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 17:41:24 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-nvqbdfnyzmqxtyhwgzwfmzvieg Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://plan9.escet.urjc.es/ or just google :-) --upas-nvqbdfnyzmqxtyhwgzwfmzvieg Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Mon Feb 10 16:54:24 MET 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3D44419A19; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:54:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from netscape.com (r2d2.aoltw.net [64.236.137.26]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 20BE219A04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:53:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from yoda.mcom.com (yoda.ie.office.aol.com [10.128.72.204]) by netscape.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id h1AFrKY04671 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 07:53:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from will551 ([10.128.74.77]) by yoda.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id HA3O4K00.869 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 15:53:08 +0000 Message-ID: <011001c2d11c$8685f290$4d4a800a@will551> From: "Conor Williams" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <838b9e71b3d2c9e015ed50b2bd73c32c@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Subject: Re: [9fans] mpg123 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 15:53:16 -0000 it doesnt seem to be on the plan9.bell-labs site? have u a url? tx will551 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fco.J.Ballesteros" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 2:34 PM Subject: RE: [9fans] mpg123 > The mad player uses fixed point and is quite optimized. > I think the ported version is in our web page. > It's what I use in the bitsy and works properly there > (needless to say on a pc). > --upas-nvqbdfnyzmqxtyhwgzwfmzvieg-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 11 02:07:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 11 02:07:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 371 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Feb 2003 02:07:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 367 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2003 02:07:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Feb 2003 02:07:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 96BFC19A2F; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 12:07:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id DB50C19A0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 12:06:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1d81f87515919c3f62449b33f7c95c44@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Okay, who's been playing with the cheese wiz? From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ucpletpkydqmbealajqfjmykiw" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 17:09:14 0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ucpletpkydqmbealajqfjmykiw Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > it's nice to have a wrapper that [...] recreates it on hangup how does this work? i couldn't see anything in the manual about this. > if there were better notation, well, i suppose if rc were modified to support open read-write, mount <>{command} /mnt/xxx would look slightly more logical (and reflect what's actually happening). > also there's a lot to be said for defaults. that's true. but it's also nice to see the mount points actually named in the script that sets them up, i think. (i always have to look in the manual page to see whether it's (e.g.) /n/tapefs or /mnt/tapefs...) > there is one real problem, which is that the servers would all need to > know to rfork(RFNAMEG) at start, so that they don't hold up their own > service ref counts. don't they have to do that currently anyway? --upas-ucpletpkydqmbealajqfjmykiw Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for rog@vitanuova.com id 1044884284:10:06042:3; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 13:38:04 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1112192; 10 Feb 2003 13:37 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 63BD119A05; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 08:37:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E5A4219988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 08:36:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Feb 10 08:36:14 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Mon Feb 10 08:36:12 EST 2003 Message-ID: <6e01499f169b0756f8b2ff199514cee2@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Okay, who's been playing with the cheese wiz? From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <3d4c69fd5fe4e31a00c344b8faf39623@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 08:36:10 -0500 srv -e serves execnet's original purpose now. it's nice to have a wrapper that creates the service if necessary, recreates it on hangup, and so on. mount >{command} /mnt/xxx strikes me as an idiom that is clumsy at best. every time i see it, it takes a few minutes to remember why it works at all -- the syntax would have you believe that the pipe would be open only for writing. if there were better notation, you might convince me. also there's a lot to be said for defaults. there is one real problem, which is that the servers would all need to know to rfork(RFNAMEG) at start, so that they don't hold up their own service ref counts. --upas-ucpletpkydqmbealajqfjmykiw-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 11 02:11:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 11 02:11:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 414 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Feb 2003 02:11:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 409 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2003 02:11:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Feb 2003 02:11:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BC843199F2; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 12:11:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0C1D319992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 12:10:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Feb 10 12:10:08 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Mon Feb 10 12:10:06 EST 2003 Message-ID: <21e060eb3bbdfb6fd74d2d2c3d4ffe91@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Okay, who's been playing with the cheese wiz? From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <1d81f87515919c3f62449b33f7c95c44@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 12:10:00 -0500 > it's nice to have a wrapper that [...] recreates it on hangup > how does this work? > i couldn't see anything in the manual about this. srv does this. if you 9fs alice but /srv/alice is dead, srv will redial it and post a new one. that's the wrapper i was talking about. it's just nice to reuse extant connections when possible. nothing fancy like recover. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 11 02:12:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 11 02:12:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 429 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Feb 2003 02:12:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 425 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2003 02:12:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Feb 2003 02:12:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8650019988; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 12:12:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0FA7219A2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 12:11:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18iHLd-0004NS-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 17:04:01 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Jaytee Message-ID: Organization: CI TASK http://www.task.gda.pl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Future of Plan9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 17:01:47 GMT Hello everybody! I'm very green about Plan9. I justo found it in the net and i'm curious about it's future. Do you think that is good idea to learn using and programming Plan9? Is there any future for this system? If yes then in what industry? In what kind of machines Plan 9 is used? In Palmtops? or maybe specialized web servers? maybe in any other industry? Excuse me my questions, i know they may be silly, i just want to hear some opinions from people who use Plan 9 in their work places or homes. Greetings! Jacek Szydlowski jaytee@janowo.net From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 11 02:25:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 11 02:25:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 532 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Feb 2003 02:25:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 528 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2003 02:25:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Feb 2003 02:25:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1EE1619A10; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 12:25:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from work (unknown [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1B3B719A0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 12:24:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: "Steve Simon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] (no subject) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 17:20:03 0000 Hi, Anyone have a simple example of the use of webfs? I cannot see what it gives over hget. -Steve From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 11 03:14:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 11 03:14:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 956 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Feb 2003 03:14:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 952 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2003 03:14:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Feb 2003 03:14:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B1AF199F2; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 13:14:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mobydick.int.entrisphere.com (unknown [63.203.52.228]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 00F491999B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 13:13:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from entrisphere.com ([192.168.168.142] RDNS failed) by mobydick.int.entrisphere.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:13:29 -0800 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mpg123 In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:00:47 GMT." <017201c2d0e2$e7273d50$4d4a800a@will551> From: Tad Hunt Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Feb 2003 18:13:29.0839 (UTC) FILETIME=[1D342FF0:01C2D130] Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:13:29 -0800 I seem to remember something along these lines. Try running it like this: mpg123 < pc.mp3 > /dev/audio I think there should be a README with the patch that describes some crash like this. Unfortunately I haven't had time to touch any plan9 stuff for about two years. -Tad In message <017201c2d0e2$e7273d50$4d4a800a@will551>, you said: ;ne one use mpg123? ;I got it compiled but now im getting: ;mpg123 107: suicide: sys: fp: division by zero: fppc=0x6389 status=0xb9b4 ; pc=0x00006380 ; ;when I try and play anything using the command ;mpg123 -s pc.mp3 > /dev/audio ; ;any one got Tad Hunts email address - thats the guy who ;ported over mpg123 to plan 9? ;tx ;will551 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 11 03:29:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 11 03:29:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1072 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Feb 2003 03:29:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1068 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2003 03:29:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Feb 2003 03:29:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B765A19992; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 13:29:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (unknown [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 09149199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 13:28:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: X-Plan9-Fortune: DAT arrives/frequency notch treachery/people are not fooled From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] (no subject) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 13:26:57 -0500 > Anyone have a simple example of the use of webfs? > I cannot see what it gives over hget. Not much, really, except cookies by default (though webcookies will let hget do the same, now). It's a building block for web browsers that never happened, not a useful standalone tool by itself. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 11 05:33:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 11 05:33:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2100 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Feb 2003 05:33:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2096 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2003 05:33:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Feb 2003 05:33:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E28BF19A04; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 15:33:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 501D41999B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 15:32:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h1AKWtgp014185 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 13:32:55 -0700 Received: (qmail 3765 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2003 13:26:14 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 10 Feb 2003 13:26:14 -0700 Received: (qmail 26530 invoked by uid 3499); 10 Feb 2003 13:26:14 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 10 Feb 2003 13:26:14 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] what a mess the Unix world has become In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 13:26:14 -0700 (MST) On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, C H Forsyth wrote: > i don't quite see how they could provide a `commit' effect unless they finally > added a Close operation to the clunky protocol. that was the joy of it. NFS was a very informal business. Close turned to a set of operations that were in essence a commit of cached writes. These could fail ... ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 11 10:50:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 11 10:50:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5128 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Feb 2003 10:50:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5124 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2003 10:50:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Feb 2003 10:50:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0FD6D19A0C; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 20:50:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1E00A19992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 20:49:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] laptop sound Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 10:50:56 +0900 > I had a look at that family of sound chips at one point > (it's a CS####) and all the drivers I found were very > complicated. I tried to do such in the last new year holidays, however, I was knocked down by heavy influenza and lost my time. Anyway, there are two major tasks, one is sound card chip proper and the other is that we have only ISA sound card example in our distribution. As you know, all the present soundcard is for PCI bus, and some mechanism to identify itself will be neccessary. Therefore, as Dan said before, we need to move the codes of soundcard from port to pc directory. So, it is not so easy process to port soundcard drivers, I suppose. If you make one such example, I suppose many will follow you, and enrich the sound world for Plan 9 in addition to USB ports. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 11 12:55:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 11 12:55:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6970 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Feb 2003 12:55:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6966 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2003 12:55:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Feb 2003 12:55:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 350BF199F2; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 22:55:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 802FA199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 22:54:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <26234c94468f6e67c2baf1e2bf455f81@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Marsv presentation at Houston From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 12:56:03 +0900 >> is marsv soft available online? > > When I think, it's time to deliver it, I'll put it public. I wonder whether I should write this or it may be redundant... Anyway, we have been making the planv (previous and buggy version of marsv) public for about a year. The url of it is http://basalt.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp/plan9/planv.tgz. Planv utilises memdraw functions and make layer structure and make it possible to moving longitude/latitude and altitude reading on the cube image. Planv and Marsv is essencially same. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 11 12:58:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 11 12:58:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7022 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Feb 2003 12:58:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7018 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2003 12:58:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Feb 2003 12:58:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF9E919A19; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 22:58:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0DF5419A0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 22:57:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <806b0017e18db57063a9e248228609c0@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Marsv presentation at Houston From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 12:59:07 +0900 > http://basalt.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp/plan9/planv.tgz. This is for Release 3 Plan 9, sorry. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 11 18:42:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 11 18:42:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11000 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Feb 2003 18:42:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10996 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2003 18:42:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Feb 2003 18:42:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3459D19A0C; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 04:42:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9329E19988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 04:41:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18iWk8-0001rM-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 09:30:20 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3E48AC0B.9090800@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Subject: [9fans] Re: Future of Plan9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 09:30:03 GMT Jaytee wrote: > Do you think that is good idea to learn using and programming Plan9? > Is there any future for this system? If yes then in what industry? Plan 9 is about ideas, not markets. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 11 18:42:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 11 18:42:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11008 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Feb 2003 18:42:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11004 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2003 18:42:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Feb 2003 18:42:42 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA3D619A04; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 04:42:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A52A519988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 04:41:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18iWk8-0001rG-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 09:30:20 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3E48ABC5.6050205@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <3E46ACD7.50802@null.net>, Subject: Re: [9fans] what a mess the Unix world has become Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 09:29:51 GMT Ronald G. Minnich wrote: > Actually at some point in the 90s NFS became like that on SunOS (well, > minus the rollback system). That was about the time that close could > return an error, meaning "remember those writes you did yesterday? Well, > some of them may not have worked out, so you probably lost data. Have a > nice day." Unix has always been like that. Write() would succeed if a kernel buffer received the data, without waiting for the actual transfer to the device. This has been known to cause great fun with terminal lines. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 11 19:16:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 11 19:16:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11286 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Feb 2003 19:16:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11282 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2003 19:16:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Feb 2003 19:16:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E3FB19A10; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 05:16:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from netscape.com (c3po.aoltw.net [64.236.137.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 417D319A04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 05:15:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from yoda.mcom.com (yoda.ie.office.aol.com [10.128.72.204]) by netscape.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id h1BAFoZ15456 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 02:15:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from will551 ([10.128.74.77]) by yoda.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id HA536A00.M7B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 10:15:46 +0000 Message-ID: <01f001c2d1b6$89ea1e30$4d4a800a@will551> From: "Conor Williams" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <8f58b31f5fde57f8d0bcbac4265b5652@plan9.bell-labs.com> <1043528161.1773.47.camel@dimension> <02c801c2d0e7$88599430$4d4a800a@will551> Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet problem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01ED_01C2D1B6.89BDDE10" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 10:15:44 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01ED_01C2D1B6.89BDDE10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Russ I dont have that program on my computer... Heres my /lib/ndb/local file - if you could cast an eye over it I would appreciate it... -- your auth server does not know how to contact itself. run auth/debug on the auth server and it should confirm this. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Conor Williams" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 9:33 AM Subject: [9fans] telnet problem > hi > im getting a problem telnetting into my auth server - > % telnet 10.5.1.18 > connected to tcp!10.5.1.18!telnet on /net/tcp/0 > user: bootes > authentication failure: auth server protocol botch > > my cpu command works fine - ne one know how to > fix this? > tx > will551 > > ------=_NextPart_000_01ED_01C2D1B6.89BDDE10 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="local" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="local" database=3D=0A= file=3D/lib/ndb/local=0A= file=3D/lib/ndb/common=0A= =0A= ip=3D10.5.1.19 sys=3Dindia19 ether=3D0000938444f1=0A= proto=3Dil=0A= auth=3Dindia18=0A= authdom=3Dindia18=0A= dom=3Dindia19.home.net=0A= dns=3D10.5.1.18=0A= cpu=3Dindia18=0A= fs=3D10.5.1.18=0A= ipgw=3D10.5.1.15=0A= ipmask=3D255.255.255.0 =0A= ipsubmask=3D255.255.255.0=0A= =0A= ip=3D10.5.1.18 sys=3Dindia18 ether=3D00051c0c9431=0A= proto=3Dil=0A= auth=3Dindia18=0A= authdom=3Dindia18=0A= dom=3Dindia18.home.net=0A= cpu=3Dindia18=0A= fs=3Dindia18=0A= ipgw=3D10.5.1.15=0A= dns=3D10.5.1.18=0A= ipmask=3D255.255.255.0=0A= ipsubmask=3D255.255.255.0=0A= =0A= =0A= ip=3D10.5.1.12 sys=3Dindia12 ether=3D000093842a1f=0A= proto=3Dil=0A= auth=3Dindia18=0A= authdom=3Dindia18=0A= dom=3Dindia12.home.net=0A= cpu=3Dindia18=0A= fs=3Dindia18=0A= ipgw=3D10.5.1.15=0A= ipmask=3D255.255.255.0=0A= dns=3D10.5.1.18=0A= ipsubmask=3D255.255.255.0=0A= =0A= auth=3Dindia18 authdom=3Dindia18=0A= =0A= ------=_NextPart_000_01ED_01C2D1B6.89BDDE10-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 11 19:20:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 11 19:20:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11396 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Feb 2003 19:20:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11392 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2003 19:20:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Feb 2003 19:20:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B238319995; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 05:20:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from netscape.com (r2d2.aoltw.net [64.236.137.26]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B21E319981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 05:19:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from yoda.mcom.com (yoda.ie.office.aol.com [10.128.72.204]) by netscape.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id h1BAJgY15602 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 02:19:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from will551 ([10.128.74.77]) by yoda.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id HA53CI00.O77 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 10:19:30 +0000 Message-ID: <01fa01c2d1b7$1466ffb0$4d4a800a@will551> From: "Conor Williams" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] mpg123 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 10:19:36 -0000 thanks Nigel Heard my first plan9 mp3 late last night! I ended up subtracting 0.001 from that eqation and let it run the 1 -> 16 loop! doesnt seem to have warped it 2 much! Russ & co - maybe set the default irq for a sb16 card to 5 as thats what it is out of the box! l8r will551 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nigel Roles" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 2:14 PM Subject: RE: [9fans] mpg123 > Because it computes (around ine 170 of layer3.c) > > 1 - tan(3 * Pi / 4) > > which is 0 > > and then a series of values which involve dividing > by it. > > In my experience, most mp3 code available on > lunix is full of this kind of stuff. > > It's no wonder that if you port an encoder or decoder > from one platform to another you get a different answer. > > It's only because the x86 FPU gives an answer to > tan(3 * PI / 4) > > "that is almost, but not quite, entirely unlike" > > -1 that this works at all. > > Write out 100 times, "floating point numbers > are approximate numbers". > > I would guess that row 9 of the table is not used, > so that putting > > if (i == 9) continue; > > in the loop will fix it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu [mailto:9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu]On Behalf > Of Conor Williams > Sent: 10 February 2003 09:01 > To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > Subject: [9fans] mpg123 > > > ne one use mpg123? > I got it compiled but now im getting: > mpg123 107: suicide: sys: fp: division by zero: fppc=0x6389 status=0xb9b4 > pc=0x00006380 > > when I try and play anything using the command > mpg123 -s pc.mp3 > /dev/audio > > any one got Tad Hunts email address - thats the guy who > ported over mpg123 to plan 9? > tx > will551 > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 11 19:26:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 11 19:26:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11475 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Feb 2003 19:26:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11471 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2003 19:26:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Feb 2003 19:26:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3B85719A0C; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 05:26:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-227.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.227]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 55CC4199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 05:25:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] what a mess the Unix world has become From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <3E48ABC5.6050205@null.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 02:25:20 -0800 Checking close() return values after writing on a descriptor is good hygiene, but as I recall, NFS made error detection harder by not necessarily reporting write errors (even synchronous ones like ENOSPC) via either write() or close(); one had to use fsync() just before the close() to force any write errors to be reported. From code I wrote in the late 1980s: /* * nfclose(stream) - flush the stream, fsync its file descriptor and * fclose the stream, checking for errors at all stages. This dance * is needed to work around the lack of Unix file system semantics * in Sun's NFS. Returns EOF on error. */ #include int nfclose(stream) register FILE *stream; { register int ret = 0; if (fflush(stream) == EOF) ret = EOF; if (fsync(fileno(stream)) < 0) /* may get delayed error here */ ret = EOF; if (fclose(stream) == EOF) ret = EOF; return ret; } From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 11 20:20:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 11 20:20:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12309 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Feb 2003 20:20:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12305 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2003 20:20:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Feb 2003 20:20:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2749619A0D; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 06:20:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from XMAIL.asuch.cas.cz (clusterb.asuch.cas.cz [147.231.136.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A89F119995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 06:19:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from picture ([147.231.139.42]) by XMAIL.asuch.cas.cz over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Tue, 11 Feb 2003 12:19:16 +0100 Message-ID: <000801c2d1bf$69e529a0$2a8be793@gli.cas.cz> From: "peter a. cejchan" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Organization: paleobiology & paleoecology lab MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2D1C7.CB602C90" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Feb 2003 11:19:16.0443 (UTC) FILETIME=[69D6AAB0:01C2D1BF] Subject: [9fans] Linuxemu Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 12:19:16 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2D1C7.CB602C90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable would somebody be interested in doing me a favor with the following = [dznamic linking] (it's too much for my limited abilities, sigh.. :-) tia,++pac. >>> russ Cox wrote: >>> I made linuxemu compile again, and it seems that it doesn't support dynamically linked binaries. I don't think it's hard, but apparently never did it. http://pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~rsc/linuxemu.tar.gz g% 8.out bin/a.hello segattach(8000080,10b94)... hello world g%=20 Russ > thanks a lot for linuxemu! However, I was only able to run the stuff > included with /bin. Other linux progs (sort, bc...) did not work > (see below). May it be they were dynamically linked with glibc? > Thus, isn't there a dosemu around there? (Perhaps it would be easier right, /bin is typically statically linked, while /usr/bin is dynamically linked. like i said, it wouldn't be too hard to make dynamic linking work. in theory, linuxemu ld-linux.so.1 bin/a.dynamic is supposed to work, but unfortunately ld-linux.so.1 wants to be loaded where the linuxemu text segment is. you'd need to move the linuxemu text segment somewhere else and then segdetach it before calling elfload. it's entirely doable, especially since x86 code is position independent. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2D1C7.CB602C90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
would somebody be interested in doing me a favor = with the=20 following [dznamic linking] (it's too much for my limited abilities, = sigh..=20 :-)
 
tia,++pac.
 
>>> russ Cox wrote: = >>>
I made linuxemu compile again, and it seems = that
it=20 doesn't support dynamically linked binaries.  I don't
think it's = hard,=20 but apparently never did it.

http://pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~rsc/linuxemu.tar.gz

g% = 8.out=20 bin/a.hello
segattach(8000080,10b94)...
hello world
g%=20

Russ
 
> thanks a lot for linuxemu! However, I was = only able=20 to run the stuff
> included with /bin. Other linux progs (sort, = bc...) did=20 not work
> (see below). May it be they were dynamically linked = with=20 glibc?
> Thus, isn't there a dosemu around there? (Perhaps it = would be=20 easier

right, /bin is typically statically linked, while = /usr/bin
is=20 dynamically linked.  like i said, it wouldn't be too hard
to = make=20 dynamic linking work.  in theory,

linuxemu ld-linux.so.1=20 bin/a.dynamic

is supposed to work, but unfortunately=20 ld-linux.so.1
wants to be loaded where the linuxemu text segment = is.
you'd=20 need to move the linuxemu text segment somewhere
else and then = segdetach it=20 before calling elfload.  it's entirely
doable, especially since = x86 code=20 is position independent.

 
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2D1C7.CB602C90-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 11 20:25:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 11 20:25:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12377 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Feb 2003 20:25:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12373 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2003 20:25:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Feb 2003 20:25:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 71E2A19A26; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 06:25:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nigel.9fs.org (cotswold.demon.co.uk [194.222.75.186]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 97BA319A10 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 06:24:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <47ba03a0d75f21fcb5985bfeb9bb0aa7@9fs.org> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mpg123 From: nigel@9fs.org In-Reply-To: <01fa01c2d1b7$1466ffb0$4d4a800a@will551> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 11:26:25 0000 > thanks Nigel > Heard my first plan9 mp3 late last night! > I ended up subtracting 0.001 from that eqation and let > it run the 1 -> 16 loop! doesnt seem to have warped it 2 > much! That's almost bound to be a bad decision. It will warp all the values, rather than just the one which I suspect is not used. You forced me to get my copy of 11172-3 off the shelf. These tables are used for intensity coding, e.g. the left channel has the intensity of the frequency bucket, the right channel the pan ratio. Given that the equation is ratio = tan(pos * pi / 12) L' = L * ratio / (1 + ratio) R' = R * 1 / (1 + ratio) which can be rewritten as ratio = tan(pos * pi / 12) R = ratio/(1 + ratio) L' = L * R R' = L * (1 - R) R = 0 pans fully to the right, and increasing values tend towards the left. When R hits 1, it is fully panned to the left. The tan function tends to infinity at 90 degrees, or PI/2 radians. Thus is makes no sense for pos to take a value > 6. In fact, 6 itself is special. You can interpret it as meaning R = 1. The spec. indicates that pos == 7 disables the panning effect. So I contend that encoders will only generate values from 0 - 7, even though the field can be 4 bits, only 3 are used for intensity coding. Thus my fix will trash one row of the pow[] table which is generated in the same loop, which does use 4 bits. If you look at mad (libmad/layer3.c), you will see that it confirms this. The implementor of mad clearly thought about what this part of 11172-3 is supposed to achieve. A better fix is therefore: for(i=0;i<16;i++) { double r; if (i < 6) { double t = tan( (double) i * M_PI / 12.0 ); r = t / (1.0 + t); } else r = 1.0; tan1_1[i] = r; tan2_1[i] = 1.0 - r; tan1_2[i] = M_SQRT2 * r; tan2_2[i] = M_SQRT2 * (1.0 - r); From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 11 22:04:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 11 22:04:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13534 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Feb 2003 22:04:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13530 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2003 22:04:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Feb 2003 22:04:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9BF6619A0B; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 08:04:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C315319981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 08:03:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Feb 11 08:03:18 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Tue Feb 11 08:03:16 EST 2003 Message-ID: <2c9e36c062108fc848979b7b781af627@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet problem From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <01f001c2d1b6$89ea1e30$4d4a800a@will551> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 08:03:13 -0500 Your /lib/ndb/local file looks okay. I'm not sure exactly what's wrong. You really need to run auth/debug on the auth server. hget http://pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~rsc/debug.gz |gunzip >/bin/auth/debug auth/debug Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 11 22:13:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 11 22:13:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13604 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Feb 2003 22:13:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13600 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2003 22:13:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Feb 2003 22:13:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5F0F319A25; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 08:13:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EE48819A04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 08:12:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h1BD6pB17514; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 07:06:51 -0600 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: , In-Reply-To: <3E48AC0B.9090800@null.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Re: Future of Plan9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 07:06:51 -0600 (CST) On Tue, 11 Feb 2003, Douglas A. Gwyn wrote: > Jaytee wrote: > > Do you think that is good idea to learn using and programming Plan9? > > Is there any future for this system? If yes then in what industry? > > Plan 9 is about ideas, not markets. He means the 'market of ideas'. Everything that involves more than two is a 'market' by definition. Yes, there is a future to Plan 9, just don't look here. Hangar 18 is a the first Plan 9 co-operative of Plan 9 users (there are about a dozen of us so far) which is focused on the real world use and growth of Plan 9, as compared to the goal of the 9Fans list (which is to keep Plan 9 a research/ivor tower application). http://open-forge.org It is important to understand that the real world growth of Plan 9 is in direct opposition to the goals and desires of the original developers and 9Fans subscribers. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 11 22:20:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 11 22:20:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13679 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Feb 2003 22:20:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13675 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2003 22:20:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Feb 2003 22:20:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9C10B19A2F; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 08:20:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 36D3019A10 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 08:19:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Feb 11 08:19:14 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Tue Feb 11 08:19:12 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Future of Plan9 From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 08:19:02 -0500 > It is important to understand that the real world growth of Plan 9 is in > direct opposition to the goals and desires of the original developers and > 9Fans subscribers. It is important to understand that this is Jim Choate's opinion and not necessarily a true statement. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 11 22:39:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 11 22:39:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13907 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Feb 2003 22:39:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13903 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2003 22:39:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Feb 2003 22:39:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CAEA219A0B; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 08:39:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BC56419A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 08:38:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h1BDWKd17740; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 07:32:20 -0600 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: , Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Future of Plan9 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 07:32:20 -0600 (CST) On Tue, 11 Feb 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > > It is important to understand that the real world growth of Plan 9 is in > > direct opposition to the goals and desires of the original developers and > > 9Fans subscribers. > > It is important to understand that this is Jim Choate's opinion > and not necessarily a true statement. Ditto, however I believe the evidence will speak for itself. And there will be no discussion of 'opinion' at that juncture. Irrespective of Russ' opinion, the fact remains that this list and many of its members are -not- interested in the growth of Plan 9 outside of a small research community. You'll find the appropriate quotes, at least two from Russ in the last two years, in the archives to that effect. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 11 23:12:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 11 23:12:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14375 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Feb 2003 23:12:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14371 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2003 23:12:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Feb 2003 23:12:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 76A8E19A0D; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 09:12:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 208F219992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 09:11:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1f517bfbcb1b8d7f5681324bad8fbef6@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Future of Plan9 From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 15:11:12 +0100 We have gone through this before. I'm using it for my real world work, as others do. Could we stop discussing philosophy and get back to system issues? thanks a lot From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 11 23:36:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 11 23:36:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14597 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Feb 2003 23:36:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14593 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2003 23:36:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Feb 2003 23:36:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D675219A19; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 09:36:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B7FA419992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 09:35:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h1BEZsgp010700 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 07:35:54 -0700 Received: (qmail 12754 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2003 07:35:54 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 11 Feb 2003 07:35:54 -0700 Received: (qmail 656 invoked by uid 3499); 11 Feb 2003 07:35:54 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 11 Feb 2003 07:35:54 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: hangar18-general@open-forge.org, Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Future of Plan9 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 07:35:54 -0700 (MST) On Tue, 11 Feb 2003, Jim Choate wrote: > It is important to understand that the real world growth of Plan 9 is in > direct opposition to the goals and desires of the original developers and > 9Fans subscribers. not at all true for us. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 12 00:00:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 12 00:00:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14932 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Feb 2003 00:00:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14928 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2003 00:00:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Feb 2003 00:00:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BECB519A04; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 10:00:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from workbench.borf.com (borf.com [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 477AA19995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 09:58:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8b7172e98862d0170fe5a7ec831f67e2@coraid.com> From: bwc@coraid.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Future of Plan9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-bhdouggphlmuakpwgqyldijovy" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 10:01:02 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-bhdouggphlmuakpwgqyldijovy Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ``Hold it you two! Plan 9 is both a floor-wax AND a desert topping!'' -- Chevy Chase, Saturday Night Live ``If you want PL/I you know where you can find it!'' -- Dennis Ritchie We at Coraid are commited to using Plan 9 as a development environment, and as a source of new ideas on designing our products. As individuals, we have done so since the 1995 2nd Edition. The PIX from Cisco was developed using Plan 9, as was the LocalDirector. That seems to qualify as real world. Markets are complex things having a more to do with societal influences than detailed technology. How else can we explain VHS, Windows, and the `Survivors' television show? This message benefits the new readers of the list. --upas-bhdouggphlmuakpwgqyldijovy Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by edsac; Tue Feb 11 09:39:12 EST 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8B76B19A10; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 09:36:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B7FA419992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 09:35:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h1BEZsgp010700 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 07:35:54 -0700 Received: (qmail 12754 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2003 07:35:54 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 11 Feb 2003 07:35:54 -0700 Received: (qmail 656 invoked by uid 3499); 11 Feb 2003 07:35:54 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 11 Feb 2003 07:35:54 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: hangar18-general@open-forge.org, Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Future of Plan9 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 07:35:54 -0700 (MST) On Tue, 11 Feb 2003, Jim Choate wrote: > It is important to understand that the real world growth of Plan 9 is in > direct opposition to the goals and desires of the original developers and > 9Fans subscribers. not at all true for us. ron --upas-bhdouggphlmuakpwgqyldijovy-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 12 00:59:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 12 00:59:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15625 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Feb 2003 00:59:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15621 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2003 00:59:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Feb 2003 00:59:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 612E619A00; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 10:59:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9798119992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 10:58:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h1BFvnt04967 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 10:57:49 -0500 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] WSS Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 10:57:49 -0500 (EST) I finally found the datasheet for the cs4239 chip that's on the TP 600E and I'm wondering just how standard the native interface, Windows Sound System, is - a number of IXX indirect registers multiplexed over 4 i/o registers. I won't be able to focus on it for a while, but was wondering if a generic WSS framework would provide useful in developing other drivers. Cheers, Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 12 01:05:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 12 01:05:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15802 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Feb 2003 01:05:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15798 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2003 01:05:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Feb 2003 01:05:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A53719992; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 11:05:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 030CE199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 11:04:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13669; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 11:04:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1BG4TM09731; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 11:04:29 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302111604.h1BG4TM09731@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: hangar18-general@open-forge.org, hell@einstein.ssz.com Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Future of Plan9 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 11 Feb 2003 07:06:51 CST." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 11:04:29 -0500 > It is important to understand that the real world growth of Plan 9 is in > direct opposition to the goals and desires of the original developers and > 9Fans subscribers. So why do you still subscribe to 9fans? - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 12 01:12:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 12 01:12:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16037 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Feb 2003 01:12:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16033 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2003 01:12:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Feb 2003 01:12:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 38E45199E3; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 11:12:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 25C1E19A0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 11:11:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h1BGAmt05034 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 11:10:49 -0500 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] gs failure? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 11:10:48 -0500 (EST) term% page 4239.pdf reading through pdf... Ghostscript Error: fatal: readimage error screen id in use Error: /typecheck in --setstrokeadjust-- Operand stack: --dict:7/7(L)-- --dict:3/3(L)-- OP Execution stack: %interp_exit .runexec2 --nostringval-- --nostringval-- --nostringval-- 2 %stopped_push --nostringval-- --nostringval-- --nostringval-- false 1 %stopped_push 1 3 %oparray_pop 1 3 %oparray_pop .runexec2 --nostringval-- --nostringval-- --nostringval-- 2 %stopped_push --nostringval-- --nostringval-- --nostringval-- --nostringval-- --nostringval-- %array_continue --nostringval-- false 1 %stopped_push --nostringval-- %loop_continue --nostringval-- --dict:3/3(L)-- --nostringval-- 4 %dict_continue --nostringval-- --nostringval-- Dictionary stack: --dict:1009/1123(ro)(G)-- --dict:0/20(G)-- --dict:76/200(L)-- --dict:97/127(ro)(G)-- --dict:214/230(ro)(G)-- --dict:20/24(L)-- --dict:4/6(L)-- --dict:20/31(L)-- Current allocation mode is local From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 12 01:17:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 12 01:17:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16068 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Feb 2003 01:17:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16064 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2003 01:17:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Feb 2003 01:17:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 48AB619A25; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 11:17:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A90DE19A0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 11:16:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Feb 11 11:16:48 EST 2003 Received: from 18.24.6.245 ([18.24.6.245]) by plan9; Tue Feb 11 11:16:46 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] gs failure? From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 11:16:52 -0500 #t From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 12 02:06:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 12 02:06:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16468 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Feb 2003 02:06:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16464 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2003 02:06:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Feb 2003 02:06:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A61F719A10; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 12:06:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lcd.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 62EE3199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 12:05:32 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 25875 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2003 17:15:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO kike) (192.168.1.101) by 192.168.1.102 with SMTP; 11 Feb 2003 17:15:13 -0000 Message-ID: <014e01c2d1ef$cabf5180$6501a8c0@kike> From: "matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200302111604.h1BG4TM09731@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Future of Plan9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 17:05:34 -0000 > > So why do you still subscribe to 9fans? > maybe it's time to send in the BSA to audit for any plan9 license violations ;) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 12 06:39:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 12 06:39:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18643 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Feb 2003 06:39:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18639 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2003 06:39:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Feb 2003 06:39:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 399F019A05; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 16:39:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail3.panix.com (mail3.panix.com [166.84.1.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8F71D199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 16:38:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from 216-220-252-27.midmaine.com (216-220-252-27.midmaine.com [216.220.252.27]) by mail3.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4857988E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 16:38:14 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: markp@panix.com (mark powers) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20030211213814.A4857988E3@mail3.panix.com> Subject: [9fans] little addition to hget: dump headers Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 17:36:05 -0500 hi all, I just got around to installing html2ps, the perl script. my favorite feature of it so far is that it can crawl recursively down a tree of www pages and assemble them into a DSC conforming postscript file; but to do url retreival it needs to invoke a program that dumps http headers along with data. ergo, this silly little diff which gives hget an -h (print headers) option. diff $home/src/cmd/hget.c /sys/src/cmd/hget.c 64,65d63 < int headerprint; < 78c76 < fprint(2, "usage: %s [-v] [-h] [-o outfile] [-p body] [-x netmtpt] url\n", argv0); --- > fprint(2, "usage: %s [-v] [-o outfile] [-p body] [-x netmtpt] url\n", argv0); 101,103d98 < case 'h': < headerprint = 1; < break; 583,584d577 < if(headerprint) < fprint(1, "%s\n", buf); p.s. anyone managed to port netpbm to APE? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 12 06:56:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 12 06:56:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18776 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Feb 2003 06:56:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18771 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2003 06:56:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Feb 2003 06:56:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BA0FE19A0D; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 16:56:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B17C0199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 16:55:10 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 6596 invoked by uid 991); 11 Feb 2003 21:55:10 -0000 Message-ID: <20030211215510.6595.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] little addition to hget: dump headers In-Reply-To: Message from markp@panix.com (mark powers) of "Tue, 11 Feb 2003 17:36:05 EST." <20030211213814.A4857988E3@mail3.panix.com> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 16:55:10 -0500 > p.s. anyone managed to port netpbm to APE? I did that in the days of the second edition... I don't recall any special problems. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 12 07:37:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 12 07:37:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19258 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Feb 2003 07:37:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19254 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2003 07:37:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Feb 2003 07:37:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 456AC19A04; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 17:37:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from scsi1.moonshynecomm.com (moonshyne.net [65.116.93.130]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C347919981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 17:36:19 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 29019 invoked by uid 560); 11 Feb 2003 22:36:19 -0000 Message-ID: <20030211223619.29018.qmail@scsi1.moonshynecomm.com> From: "Matt Keeler" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Some Plan9 questions Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 17:36:19 -0500 Hello, I have been using Linux and FreeBSD for about a year or so, and I have heard only a little bit about Plan9, not really knowing what it was. In the past I haven't had much time to do any research on it to really see what it was, all I knew was that it was an operating system. Now I finally have time to see what it is and what it is all about. I will probably install it on a machine sometime this weekend. Before I do so, I do have a few questions. I do realise that some of these questions have probably been answered before, and for that I apologize. Anyways, on with the questions. 1) My main question is how much compatibility is there between Plan9 and other UNIX-based operating systems, like BSD, Linux, etc.? That includes running applications that were developed for Linux, BSD, and UNIX systems in general. 2) If Plan9 does not run applications that other UNIX operating systems can run, how hard is it to port the code over? 3) How hard is it for someone who is coming from a more common UNIX OS to get used to Plan9? 4) How popular is Plan9? This is just a question I ask out of plain curiosity. 5) Is there any other way to get into contact with other Plan9 users other than the mailing list/users group? 6) Is there going to be another release? If so, any idea when? That's all of the questions I can think of right now. I'm sure I will have some questions later, I hope you all don't mind if I ask them. Also, if you want to just send replies to me instead of the list that would be fine. Thanks. -- Matt Keeler - matt@ircguru.org http://www.ircguru.org/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 12 07:51:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 12 07:51:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19406 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Feb 2003 07:51:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19402 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2003 07:51:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Feb 2003 07:51:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE1CB19A19; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 17:51:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B92DC19A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 17:50:21 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 7149 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2003 22:50:21 -0000 Received: from roke.cse.psu.edu (HELO bio.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.12.14) by galapagos.cse.psu.edu with SMTP; 11 Feb 2003 22:50:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 21455 invoked by uid 991); 11 Feb 2003 22:50:21 -0000 Message-ID: <20030211225021.21454.qmail@f.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Some Plan9 questions In-Reply-To: Message from "Matt Keeler" of "Tue, 11 Feb 2003 17:36:19 EST." <20030211223619.29018.qmail@scsi1.moonshynecomm.com> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 17:50:20 -0500 | 1) My main question is how much compatibility is there between Plan9 and | other UNIX-based operating systems, like BSD, Linux, etc.? That includes | running applications that were developed for Linux, BSD, and UNIX systems in | general. Plan 9, unlike GNU, really is not Unix. Compatability with old mistakes is not a feature of this system. | 2) If Plan9 does not run applications that other UNIX operating systems can | run, how hard is it to port the code over? Some vanilla ANSI/POSIX programs can be ported with the help of a compatability library, and some degree of fuss. Mostly, though, Plan 9 users feel like the point is to not reinvent the old stuff. | 3) How hard is it for someone who is coming from a more common UNIX OS to | get used to Plan9? Not hard. Plan 9 has its quirks, but it was designed by just a few very smart people, so you get a clear sense of their vision. Read the man pages on the web site to see what I mean. | 4) How popular is Plan9? This is just a question I ask out of plain | curiosity. There are about 400 people on the mailing list. (Not counting list exploders and usenet readers.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 12 07:56:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 12 07:56:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19454 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Feb 2003 07:56:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19450 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2003 07:56:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Feb 2003 07:56:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B496519991; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 17:56:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6714E19A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 17:55:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h1BMtQBU004401 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 15:55:26 -0700 Received: (qmail 17758 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2003 15:55:26 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 11 Feb 2003 15:55:26 -0700 Received: (qmail 7245 invoked by uid 3499); 11 Feb 2003 15:55:26 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 11 Feb 2003 15:55:26 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Some Plan9 questions In-Reply-To: <20030211223619.29018.qmail@scsi1.moonshynecomm.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 15:55:26 -0700 (MST) On Tue, 11 Feb 2003, Matt Keeler wrote: > 3) How hard is it for someone who is coming from a more common UNIX OS to > get used to Plan9? Speaking for me, there are at least 3 learning curves. Initially it's not too bad (8c for cc, etc). Then you start trying to learn how to really use the system, and learn how to use Acme etc., and unlearning all the dumb things you learned to get used to Unix; e.g. getting used to using bind to make it easy to build kernels without modifying the base kernel tree (truthfully, how many of you out there started out using disk/kfscmd allow when you wanted to modify the kernel source? I happen to know one such person who is now a prolific Plan 9 contributor ...) The 3rd learning curve for me has been the steepest, trying to wrap my brain around everything. Watching all the clever things people do. Trying to set up a cpu cluster ... Once you see all this stuff and go back to Unix, you keep saying "damn! this is stupid! I wouldn't have this problem on Plan 9!". It's depressing at times. Oh yeah, program the graphics. You'll never want to touch X11 again. Learn it well, it's worth it. The OS world by and large is not that interesting right now, save for things like Plan 9. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 12 08:26:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 12 08:26:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19687 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Feb 2003 08:26:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19683 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2003 08:26:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Feb 2003 08:26:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9B36F19A0B; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 18:26:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BBE88199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 18:25:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Feb 11 18:25:28 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Tue Feb 11 18:25:26 EST 2003 Message-ID: <89a70ced6402dabee1c120138073f587@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Some Plan9 questions From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030211223619.29018.qmail@scsi1.moonshynecomm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 18:25:32 -0500 > 5) Is there any other way to get into contact with other Plan9 users other > than the mailing list/users group? only if you live in texas. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 12 09:09:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 12 09:09:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20355 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Feb 2003 09:09:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20351 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2003 09:09:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Feb 2003 09:09:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0A5D319992; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 19:09:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE30B19992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 19:08:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1C082Lp009880 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 17:08:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca) Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with ESMTP id h1C082st009877 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 17:08:02 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20030211164229.D95549@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] just one thing i can't figure out doing Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 17:08:02 -0700 (MST) i've been running my head against the wall on this one. short of reading the man page for rc i decided to ask the list first: i want to execute a 'window -m' where the command the window executes involves redirection (eg: cat >> /tmp/test)... so, naturally the first try is: % window -m cat >> /tmp/test but unfortunately this doesn't work (the window closes and no error status is reported in the original shell) the second thing was: % fn out { cat >> /tmp/test } % window -m out but it still didn't work... then i spent an hour trying all sorts of different quoting (trying to pass it as a list, to quote each and every one of them, to quote them together, to concatenate them with ' ' and everything else, including \>)... a way of doing this would be to create a yet another script that just cats it to /tmp, but that, in my view, is an overkill for something so simple... please, point me the obvious error that i am making... andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 12 09:14:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 12 09:14:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20528 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Feb 2003 09:14:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20524 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2003 09:14:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Feb 2003 09:14:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 94EA219A10; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 19:14:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C4F6C199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 19:13:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Feb 11 19:13:23 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Tue Feb 11 19:13:21 EST 2003 Message-ID: <77e83b59d8d092be739ae1afd3aff6ee@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] just one thing i can't figure out doing From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030211164229.D95549@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 19:13:22 -0500 the rc man page will not shed any light here. looking at /rc/bin/window might, though. you'll see that the command is executed by just running $cmd where cmd is the arguments given to window. you want something that works if typed at a shell prompt but doesn't do anything that would cause parsing by rc before getting into window. in other words window -m rc -c 'cat >>/tmp/out' From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 12 09:14:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 12 09:14:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20542 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Feb 2003 09:14:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20537 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2003 09:14:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Feb 2003 09:14:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7802719A28; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 19:14:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 472B519992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 19:13:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Feb 11 19:13:48 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Tue Feb 11 19:13:46 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Some Plan9 questions From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030211223619.29018.qmail@scsi1.moonshynecomm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 19:13:48 -0500 > 1) My main question is how much compatibility is there between Plan9 and > other UNIX-based operating systems, like BSD, Linux, etc.? That includes > running applications that were developed for Linux, BSD, and UNIX systems in > general. > 2) If Plan9 does not run applications that other UNIX operating systems can > run, how hard is it to port the code over? > 3) How hard is it for someone who is coming from a more common UNIX OS to > get used to Plan9? This isn't an answer to any one of these questions but at the same time it addresses all of them. As Scott said, you have to come at Plan 9 with an open mind. System interfaces that are felt unnecessary or clunky are not implemented, and this makes Plan 9 nice but also makes it not Unix. ANSI C code typically is easy to compile. Once you get into heavily POSIX code, things get harder. The graphics and networking models are completely different (much simpler), so graphics code almost never ports, and network code only sometimes ports (if it uses select, you've got your work cut out for you, though APE can make that easier). I don't know what your level of interest in IRC is, but it's a good recent example. On most systems if you wanted an IRC client you'd just port some other IRC client and end up with an IRC client. But Plan 9 isn't really a good base for running external programs. There's no X11, there's only rudimentary cursor addressing, so you'd have to port a command-line program. (If you want to run a Unix program, that's what Unix is for.) The Plan 9 way to attack the problem would be to step back and wonder whether there was a simpler and/or more general interface that might be good. I occasionally use IRC and AIM and ICQ, and would like to be able to do so in Plan 9 rather than switching to Windows XP. I wrote an ICQ implementation six years ago, but it ran in a window by itself and I'd always forget about it, and it still didn't really fit well with the rest of the system. A few months ago I started thinking about this again, and have slowly (a few hours here and there, very occasionally) been building a generic chat file system interface: /* * Chat file system. Conventionally mounted on /net to provide /net/chat, * for some value of chat. * * clone open and read to obtain new connection * n connection directory * ctl control messages (like connect user) * data retrieved data * err last error * local local name * remote remote name or channel * status connection state * who list of people in chat room * ... other protocol-specific files * * The connect message typically takes the following possible addresses: * * #channel a channel * chat room a chat room * user a user * *snoop* all traffic * *mop* traffic with nowhere else to go * * It would be more true to form if there weren't a *mop* but instead * you announced chat!you and then listened for connections. * The *mop* is good enough. * * The data file returns messages one at a time. The messages are attr=value * lists that can be parsed with the attribute parsing routines in auth.h [sic]. * Typical attributes include: * * src who is sending the message * dst destination for message (you, a chat room) * cmd command being sent * args other arguments */ I have an IRC implementation of this pretty much done, and I plan to do an AIM TOC implementation too. Once you've got this as a building block, it's easy to build whatever interfaces you want on top of it. I have a fairly nice Acme gui pretty much done. (Because of Acme and win, it's hardly any code.) You could build a really simple gui using rio windows (using the same code, actually) with one window per conversation. In a pinch, con -l 'irc!#plan9' would work reasonably, and it's great for debugging. Another nice thing is that suppose you want to write some sort of 'bot. It could be something complicated, or something as trivial as logging a particular chat session (or all your chat sessions). Since all the programs can use the fs interface, none of them have to worry much about the details of connection setup or anything like that. And one connection can be shared between many programs without any extra effort. While there will probably be slight differences in syntax and the frills commands that can be executed on each network, the core interface is the same meaning that I'll have multiprotocol guis for free. I think the end result is that it will fit well with the rest of the system and be more pleasant to use than most standalone clients. > 6) Is there going to be another release? If so, any idea when? In a sense, the fourth edition release is the release to end all releases. System updates are now distributed via a Plan 9 file server on the internet, sources.cs.bell-labs.com. We put changes out much closer to as they occur than ever before. Some of us run generic installations as our day-to-day system, which provides incentive to keep sources and the internal Bell Labs system in sync. There are no really big changes planned at the moment. 9P2000 was the big addition for the fourth release and we're still coming to terms with a lot of that. If big changes happen down the road then maybe that would be another number. But releases in the small happen very frequently. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 12 09:18:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 12 09:18:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20651 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Feb 2003 09:18:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20647 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2003 09:18:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Feb 2003 09:18:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 71285199E8; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 19:18:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 485D019992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 19:17:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1C0HWLp009924 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 17:17:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca) Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with ESMTP id h1C0HWoV009921 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 17:17:32 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] just one thing i can't figure out doing In-Reply-To: <77e83b59d8d092be739ae1afd3aff6ee@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: <20030211171656.T95549@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> References: <77e83b59d8d092be739ae1afd3aff6ee@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 17:17:32 -0700 (MST) On Tue, 11 Feb 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > window -m rc -c 'cat >>/tmp/out' ahh, silly me.. i stopped at 'window -m rc 'cat >>/tmp/out'' :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 12 09:42:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 12 09:42:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21515 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Feb 2003 09:42:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21511 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2003 09:42:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Feb 2003 09:42:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AFFC019A05; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 19:42:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF3B9199BC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 19:41:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <421156fc216f7d0c376cc0ac7b7db5d6@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Future of Plan9 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:42:21 +0900 > Irrespective of Russ' opinion, the fact remains that this list and many of > its members are -not- interested in the growth of Plan 9 outside of a > small research community. I've never heard what you contributed to any of Plan 9 world. On the other hand, Russ made many things available to us. Then, I believe Russ. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 12 11:04:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 12 11:04:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25708 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Feb 2003 11:04:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25704 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2003 11:04:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Feb 2003 11:04:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8375E19991; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 21:04:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 03ABC199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 21:03:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] little addition to hget: dump headers In-Reply-To: <20030211213814.A4857988E3@mail3.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-vpjfuvpaqdbunsaqeqzwwouxoq" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 21:02:59 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-vpjfuvpaqdbunsaqeqzwwouxoq Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I put the -h in hget and updated sources. However, I wasn't sure about the placement of: 583,584d577 < if(headerprint) < fprint(1, "%s\n", buf); It didn't quite make sense in my hget.c. Please make sure that the hget.c does what you expected. --upas-vpjfuvpaqdbunsaqeqzwwouxoq Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Feb 11 16:39:27 EST 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Tue Feb 11 16:39:25 EST 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B96DF19A04; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 16:39:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail3.panix.com (mail3.panix.com [166.84.1.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8F71D199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 16:38:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from 216-220-252-27.midmaine.com (216-220-252-27.midmaine.com [216.220.252.27]) by mail3.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4857988E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 16:38:14 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: markp@panix.com (mark powers) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20030211213814.A4857988E3@mail3.panix.com> Subject: [9fans] little addition to hget: dump headers Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 17:36:05 -0500 hi all, I just got around to installing html2ps, the perl script. my favorite feature of it so far is that it can crawl recursively down a tree of www pages and assemble them into a DSC conforming postscript file; but to do url retreival it needs to invoke a program that dumps http headers along with data. ergo, this silly little diff which gives hget an -h (print headers) option. diff $home/src/cmd/hget.c /sys/src/cmd/hget.c 64,65d63 < int headerprint; < 78c76 < fprint(2, "usage: %s [-v] [-h] [-o outfile] [-p body] [-x netmtpt] url\n", argv0); --- > fprint(2, "usage: %s [-v] [-o outfile] [-p body] [-x netmtpt] url\n", argv0); 101,103d98 < case 'h': < headerprint = 1; < break; 583,584d577 < if(headerprint) < fprint(1, "%s\n", buf); p.s. anyone managed to port netpbm to APE? --upas-vpjfuvpaqdbunsaqeqzwwouxoq-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 12 12:01:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 12 12:01:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28255 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Feb 2003 12:01:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28251 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2003 12:01:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Feb 2003 12:01:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7DD21199E8; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 22:01:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail3.panix.com (mail3.panix.com [166.84.1.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 61EA3199BC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 22:00:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from 216-220-251-54.midmaine.com (216-220-251-54.midmaine.com [216.220.251.54]) by mail3.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BB34984CA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 22:00:20 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] little addition to hget: dump headers From: markp@panix.com (mark powers) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-lertqmdtvulfbzognkysnpzrxk" Message-Id: <20030212030020.3BB34984CA@mail3.panix.com> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 22:58:15 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-lertqmdtvulfbzognkysnpzrxk Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cool, my first "contribution to the community". I goofed; hget changed (https support) since the version I did the diff against, which is why the line numbers didn't make sense. sorry for the confusion. --upas-lertqmdtvulfbzognkysnpzrxk Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> X-Original-To: markp@panix.com Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail1.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3108348918; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 21:04:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6006E19988; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 21:04:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 03ABC199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 21:03:01 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] little addition to hget: dump headers In-Reply-To: <20030211213814.A4857988E3@mail3.panix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-vpjfuvpaqdbunsaqeqzwwouxoq" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-Beenthere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 21:02:59 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-vpjfuvpaqdbunsaqeqzwwouxoq Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I put the -h in hget and updated sources. However, I wasn't sure about the placement of: 583,584d577 < if(headerprint) < fprint(1, "%s\n", buf); It didn't quite make sense in my hget.c. Please make sure that the hget.c does what you expected. --upas-vpjfuvpaqdbunsaqeqzwwouxoq Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Feb 11 16:39:27 EST 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Tue Feb 11 16:39:25 EST 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B96DF19A04; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 16:39:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail3.panix.com (mail3.panix.com [166.84.1.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8F71D199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 16:38:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from 216-220-252-27.midmaine.com (216-220-252-27.midmaine.com [216.220.252.27]) by mail3.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4857988E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 16:38:14 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: markp@panix.com (mark powers) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20030211213814.A4857988E3@mail3.panix.com> Subject: [9fans] little addition to hget: dump headers Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 17:36:05 -0500 hi all, I just got around to installing html2ps, the perl script. my favorite feature of it so far is that it can crawl recursively down a tree of www pages and assemble them into a DSC conforming postscript file; but to do url retreival it needs to invoke a program that dumps http headers along with data. ergo, this silly little diff which gives hget an -h (print headers) option. diff $home/src/cmd/hget.c /sys/src/cmd/hget.c 64,65d63 < int headerprint; < 78c76 < fprint(2, "usage: %s [-v] [-h] [-o outfile] [-p body] [-x netmtpt] url\n", argv0); --- > fprint(2, "usage: %s [-v] [-o outfile] [-p body] [-x netmtpt] url\n", argv0); 101,103d98 < case 'h': < headerprint = 1; < break; 583,584d577 < if(headerprint) < fprint(1, "%s\n", buf); p.s. anyone managed to port netpbm to APE? --upas-vpjfuvpaqdbunsaqeqzwwouxoq-- --upas-lertqmdtvulfbzognkysnpzrxk-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 12 13:38:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 12 13:38:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30838 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Feb 2003 13:38:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30834 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2003 13:38:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Feb 2003 13:38:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CFD16199E8; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 23:38:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3CF0B199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 23:37:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h1C4VSO25154; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 22:31:29 -0600 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: , In-Reply-To: <1f517bfbcb1b8d7f5681324bad8fbef6@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Re: Future of Plan9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 22:31:28 -0600 (CST) On Tue, 11 Feb 2003, Fco.J.Ballesteros wrote: > We have gone through this before. And we ain't done yet, by a long shot. > I'm using it for my real world work, as others do. BFD, that is -not- the measure of success in Open Source. User base is (just as in real world commercial software). > Could we stop discussing philosophy and get back to system > issues? You draw a specious distinction. One can't exist without the other. If you don't want to participate in the discussion then don't (I believe Plan 9 has a 'd' key like most other OS'es). Stay stuck in the compiler telling yourself the same old same old, that's your choice. Nobody makes you reply to my submissions to this list other than your own bruised ego. The reality is that the Plan 9 community, as I've said before, is inbread and really not effective at developing a -thriving- user community. You can write all the nifty code you want, if nobody uses it you've wasted your effort. A user community equals success, period. After being available for two(!!!) years some very important observations can be made about the (in)viability of the Plan 9 developer community as it stands now. - Not a single other user group exists (it's ok, Hangar 18 has folks in several cities around the US). -NO- other efforts are extant outside of Hangar 18. After two(!!!) years that's an embarassing statement to make, even for me. It didn't take but a little over a year from the first time Linus released Linux until the first user groups started. I have a hard time explaining in a rational, reasonable way to people who have a interest in using Plan 9 why this is. It in fact is one of the major turn-offs to get people to even try it. People who are technically aware of the history of Unix and Plan 9 generally walk away in shock. - There are no(!!!) introductory documents for new users (don't worry, Hangar 18 is working on that now. - I've yet to see an actual article in -any- of the commercial or Open Source technical or user community literature (it's Ok, we're working on that too). - The boot process is still one of the most aggravating issues for any new Plan 9 user (we're working on that also). - The commercial outlet for Plan 9 has zero, nada, nil, null programs for fostering user communities. The best we've received to date is some snide comment by one of the reps about free t-shirts if somebody writes code. As if getting people to use that code isn't at least as important (especially if you want people to buy gobs of your product - 90% of all users are just that, users; not developers). I had hoped to address this issue by forming a LLC but the poor economy has dashed that because the other participants in the fledgling effort simply don't have the resources at this time so we're going to have to put that one off for the time being. - Plan 9 is a -distributed- OS, using it on your own personal desktop is like driving a Indy car around a Malibu Grand Prix track (no affiliation or insult intended to Malibu). Not a single resource exists outside of Hangar 18 to foster the growth and development of distributed resources for public access via Open Source efforts. - I've made two offers to public comment about Plan 9 events to get users to appear at events where Plan 9 was supposedly to be 'demonstrated'. That's a pitifull responce and in and of itself justifies heaps of abuse on the development community. The offer stands open to any individual or organization that is interested in promoting wider use of Plan 9, I will do whatever I can do help. - There is no effort outside of Hangar 18 to create a Open Source public access point into relevant resources. Instead we get an endless stream of "Try this site..." instead of a more reasoned, and rational Plan 9 approach of attaching those resources to a common name space and having them appear automagically to -all- users in tandem. What a joke, the Plan 9 developers don't even understand how to use their own creation effectively. Instead they use the same old same old, treating Plan 9 as if it were just another varient of *nix. - There are -no- efforts outside of Hangar 18 to foster the use of Plan 9 and wireless networking to really demonstrate the power of distributed computing (to quote Rheingold - what happens when that PDA in your hand is the front end to a tera-flop distributed computing resource?). If we follow the Plan 9 development community we'll never know. Plan 9 has the power to give us that -TODAY-. What a sad list of failures of the Plan 9 development community. And it would take such little effort to do something about each and every one of them. Plan 9 has such promise and to think it will die because the people who create it lack the vision to understand how to really use it. Of course part of the problem is that many of the developers have never really embraced the concept of Open Source and what that means to them individually, let alone having any interest in distributed computing outside of getting their name plastered on some source tree somewhere that will be admired by some small closed community. Bruised ego indeed. Sigh. Hangar 18 may be slow and poor, but at least we act. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 12 14:13:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 12 14:13:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32151 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Feb 2003 14:13:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32143 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2003 14:13:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Feb 2003 14:13:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7399719991; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 00:13:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from thefrayedknot.armory.com (thefrayedknot.armory.com [192.122.209.39]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2305D199BC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 00:12:37 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 28248 invoked by uid 1000); 12 Feb 2003 05:12:36 -0000 From: Andrew To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Future of Plan9 Message-ID: <20030212051236.GA28211@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <1f517bfbcb1b8d7f5681324bad8fbef6@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 21:12:36 -0800 for what its worth, ive been trying to get my own plan 9 setup going, and more importantly, offer free accounts on it to anyone who wants one. Its been a slow process and university work/life takes too much time to let me get away and do more work on it. Realistically, theres not going to be a huge number of people who _actually_ want to try and use my plan9 setup, but Im trying to at least raise awareness about it and its ideas. There is some work, although small, outside of hangar 18. > > - Not a single other user group exists (it's ok, Hangar 18 has > folks in several cities around the US). -NO- other efforts > are extant outside of Hangar 18. > > - Plan 9 is a -distributed- OS, using it on your own personal > desktop is like driving a Indy car around a Malibu Grand Prix > track (no affiliation or insult intended to Malibu). Not a single > resource exists outside of Hangar 18 to foster the growth and > development of distributed resources for public access via Open > Source efforts. > > - There is no effort outside of Hangar 18 to create a Open Source > public access point into relevant resources. Instead we get an > endless stream of "Try this site..." instead of a more reasoned, > and rational Plan 9 approach of attaching those resources to a > common name space and having them appear automagically to -all- > users in tandem. > > What a joke, the Plan 9 developers don't even understand how to > use their own creation effectively. Instead they use the same old > same old, treating Plan 9 as if it were just another varient of > *nix. > > - There are -no- efforts outside of Hangar 18 to foster the use > of Plan 9 and wireless networking to really demonstrate the > power of distributed computing (to quote Rheingold - what > happens when that PDA in your hand is the front end to a > tera-flop distributed computing resource?). If we follow the > Plan 9 development community we'll never know. Plan 9 has the > power to give us that -TODAY-. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 12 14:26:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 12 14:26:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32551 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Feb 2003 14:26:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32547 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2003 14:26:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Feb 2003 14:26:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C1CB519981; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 00:26:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mcp.csh.rit.edu (mcp.csh.rit.edu [129.21.60.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D6180199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 00:25:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from fury.csh.rit.edu (fury.csh.rit.edu [129.21.60.5]) by mcp.csh.rit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F6B2A112 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 00:25:38 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Courtesy-Of: http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~eclectic/toys/jive.html X-Humor: yes From: Tad Hunt Message-Id: <20030212052538.4F6B2A112@mcp.csh.rit.edu> Subject: [9fans] Re, dig dis: Future o' Plan9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Tad Hunt List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 00:25:36 -0500 Jim Choate be mah hero, but I couldn't quite dig him in wassups native language, so's I had t' translate it t' mine. I think it be aisia' t'eyeball dis way. Wank, wank. -Tad > Yo' ass draw some specious distincshun. One caint 'esist without da > damn otha'. If yo' ass duzn't wanna participate in da discussion den > duzn't (down low, I recon' Plan 9 has some 'd' key likes most otha' > Os'es). Stay stuck in da compila' tellin' yourself da same played out > same played out, dat's yo' choice. Ah be baaad... Nobody makes yo' > ass reply t' mah submissions t' dis list otha' dan yo' own bruised ego. > > Da reality be dat da damn Plan 9 community, as I've said b4, be inbraid > an' tru-ly not effective at developin' some -thrivin'- usa' community. Yo' > ass kin scribble all da nifty code yo' ass want, if nobody 'esploits it > you've wasted yo' effort. Some usa' community equals success, puh'iod. > > Afta' bein' available 4 deuce(!!!) years some kinda' real damn important > observashuns kin be made about da damn (down low, in)viability o' da > damn Plan 9 developa' community as it stands now. > > - Not some single otha' usa' group 'esists (down low, it be ok, > Hangah' 18 has folks in several hoods around da damn U-S). -N-O- > otha' efforts be 'estant outside o' Hangah' 18. > > Afta' deuce(!!!) years dat's some embarassin' statement t' > make, even 4 me. Slap me some skin. It didn't snatch but > some tiny-ass ova' some yaih' from da fust time Linus relaised > Linux until da fust usa' groups started. I have some rock time > 'esplainin' in some rashunal, raisonable way t' sucka's who > have some interest in 'esploitin' Plan 9 y dis be. It in fact > be one o' da damn major turn-offs t' git sucka's t'even try it. > Sucka's who be technical-like aware o' da damn history o' Unix > an' Plan 9 general-like ankle away in shock. > > - Dair be no(!!!) introductory documents 4 fresh usa's (down low, > duzn't worry, Hangah' 18 be workin' on dat now. > > - I've yet t' spot some actual article in -no- o' da damn commercial > o' Jimmey Source technical o' usa' community literature (down low, > it be Ok, we be workin' on dat too). > > - Da boot process be still one o' da damn most aggravatin' issues > 4 no fresh Plan 9 usa' (down low, we be workin' on dat also). > > - Da commercial outlet 4 Plan 9 has zero, nada, nil, null rehabs 4 > fosterin' usa' communities. Da best we've received t' date be some > kinda' snide comment by one o' da damn reps about free t-shirts > if somebody scribbles code. As if gittin' sucka's t'esploit dat > code aint at laist as important (down low, especial-like if yo' > ass want sucka's t' steal gobs o' yo' product - 90% o' all usa's > be plum dat, usa's; not developa's). > > I had hoped t'address dis issue by formin' some Dubba-L-fuckin'-C > but da damn po' economy has dashed dat becuz da otha' participants > in da fledglin' effort simply duzn't have da damn resources at dis > time so's we be fixin' t' got'ta put dat one off 4 da time bein'. > > - Plan 9 be some -distributed- O-S, 'esploitin' it on yo' own > puh'sonal desktop be likes croozin' some Indy Caddy around some > Malibu Grand Prix track (down low, no affiliashun o' insult > intended t' Malibu). Not some single resource 'esists outside o' > Hangah' 18 t' fosta' da damn growt' an' development o' distributed > resources 4 public access via Jimmey Source efforts. > > - I've made deuce offa's t' public comment about Plan 9 events t' > git usa's t'appaih' at events where Plan 9 wuz supposed-like t' > be 'demonstrated'. > > Dat's some pitifull responce an' in an' o' itself justifies haips > o' abuse on da development community. Da offa' stands jimmey t' > no individual o' organizashun dat be interested in promotin' wida' > 'esploit o' Plan 9, I will do whateva' I kin do help. > > - Dair be no effort outside o' Hangah' 18 t' create some Jimmey > Source public access point into relevant resources. Instaid we > git some endless straim o' "Try dis site..." instaid o' some mo' > raisoned, an' rashunal Plan 9 approach o' attachin' dose-dair > resources t' some common name space an' havin' them appaih' > automagical-like t' -all- usa's in tandem. > > Whut some joke, da Plan 9 developa's duzn't even dig how t'esploit > deir own craishun effective-like. Instaid they 'esploit da damn > same played out same played out, treatin' Plan 9 as if it wuz > plum anotha' varient o' *nix. > > - Dair be -no- efforts outside o' Hangah' 18 t' fosta' da damn > 'esploit o' Plan 9 an' wireless networkin' t' tru-ly demonstrate > da damn powa' o' distributed computin' (down low, t' quote > Rheingold - whut goes down when dat P-D-fuckin'-A in yo' hand be > da damn front fat-lady t' some tera-flop distributed computin' > resource?). If we follow da Plan 9 development community > we gots'ta neva' know. Plan 9 has da powa' t' give us dat > -T-O-D-A-fuckin'-Y-. > > Whut some sad list o' aborshuns o' da damn Plan 9 development > community. An' it would snatch such tiny-ass effort t' do sump'n about > aich an' every one o' them. Step up. Plan 9 has such promise an' t' > think it will die becuz da sucka's who create it lack da vision t' > dig how t' tru-ly 'esploit it. O' course part o' da damn bug-up-da-ass > be dat many o' da damn developa's have neva' tru-ly embraced da damn > concept o' Jimmey Source an' whut dat mains t' them individual-like, > let monk-like havin' no interest in distributed computin' outside o' > gittin' deir name plastered on some kinda' source tree somewhere dat will > be admired by some kinda' little-ass closed community. Bruised ego indeed. > > Sigh. > > Hangah' 18 may be slow an' po', but at laist we act. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 12 14:40:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 12 14:40:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 658 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Feb 2003 14:40:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 654 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2003 14:40:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Feb 2003 14:40:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7ED5B19A00; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 00:40:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 28A2C199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 00:39:10 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 9773 invoked by uid 991); 12 Feb 2003 05:39:09 -0000 Message-ID: <20030212053909.9772.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Scott Schwartz Subject: [9fans] the usual... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 00:39:09 -0500 Friends, remember, no flaming allowed on 9fans. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 12 14:49:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 12 14:49:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1019 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Feb 2003 14:49:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1015 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2003 14:49:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Feb 2003 14:49:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE9C319A26; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 00:49:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from garlic.apnic.net (garlic.apnic.net [202.12.29.224]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 87F83199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 00:48:17 -0500 (EST) Received: (from ggm@localhost) by garlic.apnic.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h1C5lKN01196; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:47:20 +1000 (EST) From: George Michaelson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] the usual... Message-Id: <20030212154720.1e6960b8.ggm@apnic.net> In-Reply-To: <20030212053909.9772.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> References: <20030212053909.9772.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Organization: APNIC Pty Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.8claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--netbsdelf) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:47:20 +1000 On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 00:39:09 -0500 Scott Schwartz wrote: > Friends, remember, no flaming allowed on 9fans. "allowed" ??? please, Tell me this is Mark V. Shaney speaking... -George From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 12 15:37:10 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 12 15:37:10 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3082 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Feb 2003 15:36:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3069 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2003 15:36:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Feb 2003 15:36:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA91C199BE; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 01:36:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id F2BF319988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 01:35:49 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 9981 invoked by uid 991); 12 Feb 2003 06:35:49 -0000 Message-ID: <20030212063549.9980.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] the usual... In-Reply-To: Message from George Michaelson of "Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:47:20 +1000." <20030212154720.1e6960b8.ggm@apnic.net> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 01:35:49 -0500 | On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 00:39:09 -0500 Scott Schwartz | > Friends, remember, no flaming allowed on 9fans. | "allowed" ??? | please, Tell me this is Mark V. Shaney speaking... No, it's 9fans-owner@cse.psu.edu speaking. Look, I love a good argument as much as the next person, but there's no reason to overdo it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 12 15:45:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 12 15:45:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3396 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Feb 2003 15:45:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3392 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2003 15:45:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Feb 2003 15:45:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9735019A05; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 01:45:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from garlic.apnic.net (garlic.apnic.net [202.12.29.224]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 28992199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 01:44:05 -0500 (EST) Received: (from ggm@localhost) by garlic.apnic.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h1C6h8L01309; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:43:08 +1000 (EST) From: George Michaelson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: schwartz@bio.cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] the usual... Message-Id: <20030212164308.2e49ef75.ggm@apnic.net> In-Reply-To: <20030212063549.9980.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> References: <20030212154720.1e6960b8.ggm@apnic.net> <20030212063549.9980.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Organization: APNIC Pty Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.8claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--netbsdelf) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:43:08 +1000 On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 01:35:49 -0500 Scott Schwartz wrote: > | On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 00:39:09 -0500 Scott Schwartz > | > Friends, remember, no flaming allowed on > 9fans.| "allowed" ??? > | please, Tell me this is Mark V. Shaney speaking... > > No, it's 9fans-owner@cse.psu.edu speaking. > > Look, I love a good argument as much as the next person, but there's no > reason to overdo it. Is a 'good' argument like 'clean' fun? (ie, a contradiction in terms probably...) -George From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 12 19:05:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 12 19:05:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9899 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Feb 2003 19:05:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9895 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2003 19:05:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Feb 2003 19:05:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 483C819A0B; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 05:05:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0E97C199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 05:04:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18itab-0003O2-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:54:01 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: ozan s yigit Message-ID: Organization: york university computer science Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <3E48AC0B.9090800@null.net>, Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Future of Plan9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:52:42 GMT jim choate: > Yes, there is a future to Plan 9, just don't look here. ?? this is as good a place as any to look. where else would you find the people who produce things like the new new security architecture, or the real-time extensions? in an old and abandoned hangar? oz -- music is the space between the notes. | www.cs.yorku.ca/~oz -- claude debussy | york u. dept of computer science From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 12 19:35:53 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 12 19:35:53 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10539 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Feb 2003 19:35:52 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10535 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2003 19:35:52 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Feb 2003 19:35:52 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 37BCE199BC; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 05:35:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lcd.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 94401199BC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 05:34:41 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 28754 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2003 10:44:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO kike) (192.168.1.101) by 192.168.1.102 with SMTP; 12 Feb 2003 10:44:47 -0000 Message-ID: <003301c2d282$5b5e8de0$6501a8c0@kike> From: "matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Future of Plan9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 10:34:43 -0000 sorry for being sucked in > > We have gone through this before. > And we ain't done yet, by a long shot. how tiresome > > > I'm using it for my real world work, as others do. > > BFD, that is -not- the measure of success in Open Source. User base is > (just as in real world commercial software). That is an assumption *you* make. I don't get this fascination with domination. The measure of Plan 9's success [and indeed any project] can only be "does it meet the objectives of it's creators?" "Plan 9 began in the late 1980's as an attempt to have it both ways: to build a system that was centrally administered and cost-effective using cheap modern microcomputers as its computing elements. " That's it. Any other metric you apply about success or failure is one you have decided upon. Criticising those who don't share your objectives for not doing so is pretty childish. I think it is lofty and noble that you wish to bring more people to plan9 but that is you scratching your itch. I don't think for one minute it is the job of Russ, Rob, Dave et. al. to not only develop, support and maintain plan9 in their own time in a decimated lab owned by a company with financial woes where morale is lowered and the future more uncertain than before but you want them out there drumming up new users too! And if they go about this in a way you don't like you will berate and insult them! > The reality is that the Plan 9 community, as I've said before, is inbread > and really not effective at developing a -thriving- user community. I don't surround myself in bread and I am not inbred. There have been over 75 contributors to the mailing list so far this year. Are saying that all of them come from the same circle of users? The day I installed Plan 9 for the first time I had not heard of anyone on this list except Dennis [and I didn't know he was anything to do with it at the time]. I can't be the only person here that's not from Bell Labs or associated places. Is it just me, am I the only outsider? > You can write all the nifty code you want, if nobody uses it you've wasted > your effort. A user community equals success, period. Not true. code for codes sake to scratch any itch you like is a self contained success Nobody should *ever* use my irc bot but does that mean it's a failure and writing it was a mistake? > After two(!!!) years that's an embarassing statement to make, > even for me. It didn't take but a little over a year from the > first time Linus released Linux until the first user groups > started. I have a hard time explaining in a rational, reasonable > way to people who have a interest in using Plan 9 why this is. It > in fact is one of the major turn-offs to get people to even try it. Are you really telling me that you have met someone that said "I would use Plan 9 only there aren't enough user groups in my area" Last time it was the licence that stopped people using it, now it's the user community. I think it says more about the people you introduce Plan 9 to than anything about Plan 9. Linux filled a niche - a free unix like system. Plan 9's niche is very different. Feel free to make your own decisions about what you would like to see but why the hostility towards those that don't share *YOUR* vision. > - There are no(!!!) introductory documents for new users (don't > worry, Hangar 18 is working on that now. eh? I have a set of manuals & papers here and all the source code. That is all I needed to get started. Okay, it's a subset of the ideal set of documentation but it's more than I got when I bought my car and a damn sight more than you get with Windows > - The boot process is still one of the most aggravating issues for > any new Plan 9 user (we're working on that also). It wasn't the most aggravating issue for me so how can that be true for all users? > - The commercial outlet for Plan 9 has zero, nada, nil, null > programs for fostering user communities. let's get blogging honestly, "we are going to ...", "we are planning to ...", "why aren't you ..." put up and people will shut up M From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 12 19:57:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 12 19:57:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10985 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Feb 2003 19:57:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10981 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2003 19:57:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Feb 2003 19:57:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7697A19A2C; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 05:57:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.119.131.80]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0C44619988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 05:56:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (boyd@zode.strakt.com [62.119.131.76]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h1CAuXxw025867 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 11:56:33 +0100 Message-ID: <3E4A2861.7000304@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020623 Debian/1.0.0-0.woody.1 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] the usual... References: <20030212063549.9980.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 11:56:33 +0100 Scott Schwartz wrote: >Look, I love a good argument as much as the next person, but there's no >reason to overdo it. > > This isn't an argument ... It's just contradiction. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 12 20:47:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 12 20:47:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11824 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Feb 2003 20:47:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11820 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2003 20:47:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Feb 2003 20:47:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 26C2219A2F; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 06:47:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cthulhu.dircon.co.uk (host217-44-92-127.range217-44.btcentralplus.com [217.44.92.127]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C213219A25 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 06:46:32 -0500 (EST) Received: (from digbyt@localhost) by cthulhu.dircon.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA11215 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 11:46:15 GMT Message-Id: <200302121146.LAA11215@cthulhu.dircon.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Future of Plan9 In-Reply-To: <003301c2d282$5b5e8de0$6501a8c0@kike> from matt at "Feb 12, 2003 10:34:43 am" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Digby Tarvin X-Face: &(//%&/WHJk7>_lW'@YYeED-qsdBV8&h3_Hpn/0.9_=}vTk}5u/2l=Mx&rX!\.i9X{(S@nk[we'a|IX#|?jmh`(j}a+\C5/> %DpYTPd<7jF2V b[Z.TjttL[FMm_$Z$^#qd62A:T.qw7}0S\o.Or_|I 2t~t0D=eCU"S?ls%(Ro X-Pgp-Key-Fingerprint: 61 E7 39 FE 4A F4 CA F3 F5 5E BB 45 26 EC 36 3C X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL70 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: digbyt@acm.org (Digby Tarvin) List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 11:46:14 +0000 (GMT/BST) A saying involving mouths of gift horses springs to mind about now... If only Bell Labs would only let us pay for Plan9 (and I for one paid for my first copy, and was happy to do so), maybe they would have an incentive to worry about its commercial use... I like Plan9 (and Unix) because of good design and source availability, not because I can get them free. I avoid Windows, not because it is commercial, but because there is no source and it is rubbish. Not that I am complaining about being forced to keep my money.. But as long as Plan9 makes no money for the labs, they really have no business wasting shareholders money promoting it or worrying about commercial acceptance (potentially by competitors)... For now, I don't think anyone would complain if this discussion went off line... Regards, DigbyT matt: > > > We have gone through this before. > > And we ain't done yet, by a long shot. > > how tiresome -- Digby R. S. Tarvin digbyt@acm.org http://www.cthulhu.dircon.co.uk From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 12 22:01:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 12 22:01:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12944 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Feb 2003 22:01:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12940 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2003 22:01:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Feb 2003 22:01:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 345AA19A2D; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 08:01:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8825319A2D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 08:00:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h1CCsL328208; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 06:54:22 -0600 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: , Subject: Re: [9fans] the usual... In-Reply-To: <20030212053909.9772.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 06:54:21 -0600 (CST) On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Scott Schwartz wrote: > Friends, remember, no flaming allowed on 9fans. Agreed. My unhappiness is with the 'community' not individuals. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 12 22:48:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 12 22:48:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13774 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Feb 2003 22:48:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13767 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2003 22:48:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Feb 2003 22:48:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 65CA419A00; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 08:48:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lcd.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0F05E199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 08:47:22 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 29203 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2003 13:57:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO kike) (192.168.1.101) by 192.168.1.102 with SMTP; 12 Feb 2003 13:57:34 -0000 Message-ID: <012401c2d29d$479f35f0$6501a8c0@kike> From: "matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] the usual... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:47:27 -0000 > Agreed. My unhappiness is with the 'community' not individuals. there is no community From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 12 23:03:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 12 23:03:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14160 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Feb 2003 23:03:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14155 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2003 23:03:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Feb 2003 23:03:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0C59E19A19; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:03:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.119.131.80]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EEC5E199BC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:02:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (boyd@zode.strakt.com [62.119.131.76]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h1CE25xw029098 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:02:05 +0100 Message-ID: <3E4A53DD.4050802@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020623 Debian/1.0.0-0.woody.1 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] the usual... References: <012401c2d29d$479f35f0$6501a8c0@kike> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:02:05 +0100 matt wrote: >there is no community > Not another nihilist. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 12 23:38:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 12 23:38:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14639 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Feb 2003 23:38:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14635 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2003 23:38:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Feb 2003 23:38:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C0906199B3; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:38:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from riecilla.sotol.org (adsl-208-190-152-201.dsl.austtx.swbell.net [208.190.152.201]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 871D719981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:37:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from linuxlink.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by riecilla.sotol.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F06CF8A32B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 08:31:32 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3E4A5AC4.6060100@linuxlink.com> From: mike User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20030211 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re, dig dis: Future o' Plan9 References: <20030212052538.4F6B2A112@mcp.csh.rit.edu> In-Reply-To: <20030212052538.4F6B2A112@mcp.csh.rit.edu> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.71.0.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 08:31:32 -0600 What a bunch of fscked up stuff. I am from Austin, Texas too, and hope that is not what people think of us. I hope for your own good. My ego does not get bruised. It does the bruising. LOL I was in Hangar 18 and may still be counted there, but I kinda gave up when more than a year into it, I and some of my friends had multiple plan9 boxen and networks set up while Mr. Choate had yet to have a box installed. Mebby I am naive or something, but I always feel better about a group if the "fearless leader" knows something and does something. (and no Jim, I am not saying that you know nothing and do nothing) We always have fun when hanging together. Things may have changed by now, so I may be way off base here now. (I have actually been busy for a couple of years now.) I have always lurked here though and use the info I get to keep my network up and running. If I could just get rio to like one of these laptops I have. The fact that OSS is being co-opted by Big Business only makes me appreciate this stage of Plan9s evolution more. Have fun. Tad Hunt wrote: > Jim Choate be mah hero, but I couldn't quite dig him in wassups native > language, so's I had t' translate it t' mine. I think it be aisia' > t'eyeball dis way. Wank, wank. > > -Tad > > >>Yo' ass draw some specious distincshun. One caint 'esist without da >>damn otha'. If yo' ass duzn't wanna participate in da discussion den >>duzn't (down low, I recon' Plan 9 has some 'd' key likes most otha' >>Os'es). Stay stuck in da compila' tellin' yourself da same played out >>same played out, dat's yo' choice. Ah be baaad... Nobody makes yo' >>ass reply t' mah submissions t' dis list otha' dan yo' own bruised ego. >> -- Michael H. Collins http://RawDeal.org http://www.madhack.com/~madhack/frodo_has_failed.jpg From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 00:35:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 00:35:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17227 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 00:35:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17223 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 00:35:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 00:35:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3627F19A1C; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 10:35:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6C725199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 10:34:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] (no subject) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 10:34:36 -0500 I updates kernel code on sources with window scaling. The scaling is automatic; if your interface > 100 mbps, you get a 512k window if your interface > 10 mbps, you get a 128k window otherwise, no scaling except what the other side requests It seems to have a significant effect in our 1GB intel interfaces, none elsewhere. That implies that our bandwidth*rtt product is sometimes > 64K. Take it for what its worth. It moved a single TCP connection on our test machines from 28 MBps to 50 MBps. If you have problems, tell me. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 00:38:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 00:38:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17295 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 00:38:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17291 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 00:38:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 00:38:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 86B2119A10; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 10:38:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 61CC1199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 10:37:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] (no subject) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 10:37:54 -0500 Fixed a bug in imap4d that was sticking an extra header in to the mail body when you accessed it via Netscape's mailer. This also made it impossible to look at some attachments unless you saved them first. The fix is both in /sys/src/cmd/upas/fs and /sys/src/cmd/ip/imap4d. It essentially involves taking code out. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 00:42:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 00:42:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17373 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 00:42:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17369 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 00:42:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 00:42:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A94D519A2A; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 10:42:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D63F19A2A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 10:41:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <6552e52f426c3fbfc1e41eb38f2690a5@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] (no subject) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 10:41:34 -0500 I changed smtpd to avoid some masquerading by spammers. It makes sure that the envelope sender address cannot be from one of your domains unless the mail is comming from a trusted address. It is turned on by the same flag that disallows blind relaying (-f on the commad line or 'norelay on' in the config file). It still needs a bit of work, i.e., I should also check the From: address in the message itself. I just wanted to take it one step at a time. Complaints to me. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 01:21:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 01:21:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17936 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 01:21:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17932 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 01:21:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 01:21:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1C47219A3E; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 11:21:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2E55B19A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 11:20:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24729; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 11:20:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1CGKGM14817; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 11:20:16 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302121620.h1CGKGM14817@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: hangar18-general@open-forge.org, hell@einstein.ssz.com Subject: Re: [9fans] the usual... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 12 Feb 2003 06:54:21 CST." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 11:20:16 -0500 > Agreed. My unhappiness is with the 'community' not individuals. It seems to me that your outburts do little to further your goals, yet they usually incite a flame war. Why not, then, keep them to yourself? - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 02:19:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 02:19:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18560 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 02:19:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18556 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 02:19:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 02:19:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9F4EE19988; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:19:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E33B619A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:18:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h1CHHlt07912 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:17:47 -0500 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Future of Plan9 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:17:47 -0500 (EST) I hate to even respond to the banter coming out of Austin these days, but corrections must be made. > - Not a single other user group exists (it's ok, Hangar 18 has > folks in several cities around the US). -NO- other efforts > are extant outside of Hangar 18. I'm in a local 9 users group in Athens, GA which I run. I've gone to the local linux user group showcase - attendance might reach 500 all day - and hosted a table for 9 and inferno. My experience was that technically saavy people (read: contemporary system administrators) were curious and impressed with simple things like bound directories and ftpfs, but generally lost interest by the time i got around to acme. The "enthusiasts" didn't get it at all, and really didn't like the GUI. Conclusion? It's hard for non-programmers to see the beauty in 9. > > - There are no(!!!) introductory documents for new users (don't > worry, Hangar 18 is working on that now. > If you would like someone to proof them for grammar and spelling errors, please let me know. > > course part of the problem is that many of the developers have never > really embraced the concept of Open Source and what that means to them > individually, let alone having any interest in distributed computing > outside of getting their name plastered on some source tree somewhere > that will be admired by some small closed community. Bruised ego indeed. > The modest programmer does not need to parade and showcase each of h(is|er) accomplishments, especially to an audience whose immediate response will be, "Cool! Can you port that to linux?" If you sit down and rationalize out the percentages of people who would appreciate, say, linux for its "advantages" (Desktop WIMP style software, familiar Unixish underpinnings, and virtual system administratorless installation and operation) vs. 9 and hers it shouldn't come as a surprise that 9's user base is a rat pack of modest programmer curmudgeons. Moreover, it isn't the job of the developers to promote the software in a public arena. You're clearly one of the few non-programmers in the group and as such it's your responsibility to bridge the gap. You guys can do the work of bringing it to the people while the curmudgeons keep building things like Fossil. Please, stop with the baseless manic insults. I sure hope you started this rant with the troll about plan 9's future because if not, you've likely scared off somone who genuinely was interested; I hope it's rather obvious this effect is converse to your goal. Cheers, Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 03:35:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 03:35:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19305 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 03:35:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19301 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 03:35:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 03:35:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8DC7219A28; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:35:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 963A619A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:34:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18j1Y9-0002Uo-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:24:01 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: north_ Message-ID: <48effcda.0302121019.259d9d51@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: , <3E48AC0B.9090800@null.net> Subject: [9fans] Re: Future of Plan9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:23:31 GMT > Plan 9 is about ideas, not markets. Right on north_ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 03:36:02 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 03:36:02 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19326 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 03:36:02 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19321 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 03:36:02 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 03:36:02 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6225C19A0B; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:35:20 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7531419A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:34:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18j1hp-0002c8-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:34:01 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: north_ Message-ID: <48effcda.0302121023.65e7050f@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: Subject: Re: [9fans] WSS Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:32:15 GMT I was actually working on a driver for this chip on the same thinkpad 600E. Unfortunately, all my work went down the drain when the hardware freaked and my LCD blew. Its HDD is just sitting here on my desk. Its lonely. >:[ This was pre-file-server on my network. Don From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 03:36:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 03:36:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19341 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 03:36:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19337 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 03:36:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 03:36:45 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B462319A63; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:35:28 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 24D81199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:34:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18j1hp-0002cE-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:34:01 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: north_ Message-ID: <48effcda.0302121028.32e948f0@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <20030211223619.29018.qmail@scsi1.moonshynecomm.com>, Subject: Re: [9fans] Some Plan9 questions Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:32:29 GMT > The OS world by and large is not that > interesting right now, save for things like Plan 9. > Autumn is coming.... Don From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 03:47:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 03:47:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19495 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 03:47:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19491 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 03:47:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 03:47:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8B2BC19A31; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:47:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from edoras.nas.com (edoras.nas.com [206.63.100.8]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0A60E19A31 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:46:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from nas.com (unknown [164.116.190.46]) by edoras.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2071EB2F8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 10:46:32 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3E4A9688.8090308@nas.com> From: Jack Johnson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.2a) Gecko/20020910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, es MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] the usual... References: <20030212063549.9980.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 10:46:32 -0800 Scott Schwartz wrote: > Look, I love a good argument as much as the next person, but there's no > reason to overdo it. What's better than a good argument? Why, one that's well done, of course! Though, often I prefer mine rare. -Jack From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 03:48:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 03:48:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19511 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 03:48:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19507 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 03:48:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 03:48:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 08B6919A69; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:48:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mcp.csh.rit.edu (mcp.csh.rit.edu [129.21.60.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1B0C119A63 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:47:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from csh.rit.edu (anna.csh.rit.edu [129.21.61.4]) by mcp.csh.rit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06AF1A112 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:47:44 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3E4A94BE.1070305@csh.rit.edu> From: George Gensure User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020623 Debian/1.0.0-0.woody.1 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Some Plan9 questions References: <20030211223619.29018.qmail@scsi1.moonshynecomm.com>, <48effcda.0302121028.32e948f0@posting.google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:38:54 -0500 north_ wrote: >>The OS world by and large is not that >>interesting right now, save for things like Plan 9. >> >> >> >Autumn is coming.... >Don > > Autumn? Groundhog say's it six more weeks of winter... -George From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 03:54:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 03:54:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19566 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 03:54:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19562 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 03:54:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 03:54:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5868D199BE; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:54:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailhost.det3.ameritech.net (mailhost2-sfldmi.sfldmi.ameritech.net [206.141.193.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DB50C19A6A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:53:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from ameritech.net ([67.38.15.139]) by mailhost.det3.ameritech.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with ESMTP id <20030212185309.QJNU20886.mailhost.det3.ameritech.net@ameritech.net> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:53:09 -0500 Message-ID: <3E4A9807.6050009@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Some Plan9 questions References: <20030211223619.29018.qmail@scsi1.moonshynecomm.com>, <48effcda.0302121028.32e948f0@posting.google.com> <3E4A94BE.1070305@csh.rit.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:52:55 -0500 Autumn is an OS written from scratch by (me) 127 Research and Development. =) Its not plan9. Its not UNIX. Its not Windows. Though, it takes some philosophy from all three. Don From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 03:55:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 03:55:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19584 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 03:55:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19580 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 03:55:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 03:55:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A6EFD19A6A; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:55:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B186B19A2A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:54:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] on board IP/TCP/UDP checksums Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:54:20 -0500 Anyone out there know the details of checksum calculations on various ether chips/cards? Jmk and I are currently sticking in support for hardware checksuming on the intel 82543gc. We created flags in the Block header that mean 'do IP and/or UDP and/or TCP checksum for this packet' outbound to the interface and mean 'IP and/or UDP and/or TCP checksum already done' for incoming packets. We also added a ushort that can be used to carry the whole packet checksum so that we can support v6: /* flag values */ enum { BINTR = (1<<0), BFREE = (1<<1), Bipck = (1<<2), /* ip checksum */ Budpck = (1<<3), /* udp checksum */ Btcpck = (1<<4), /* tcp checksum */ Bpktck = (1<<5), /* packet checksum */ }; struct Block { Block* next; Block* list; uchar* rp; /* first unconsumed byte */ uchar* wp; /* first empty byte */ uchar* lim; /* 1 past the end of the buffer */ uchar* base; /* start of the buffer */ void (*free)(Block*); ushort flag; ushort checksum; /* IP checksum of complete packet (minus media header) */ }; I'm wondering if this will be sufficient for other chips/cards but know nothing about them and would appreciate any elucidation from the community. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 05:14:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 05:14:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20398 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 05:14:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20394 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 05:14:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 05:14:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6C44E19A64; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:14:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9DBCC19988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:13:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Feb 12 15:13:18 EST 2003 Received: from 18.24.6.245 ([18.24.6.245]) by plan9; Wed Feb 12 15:13:14 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] plan 9 software for unix Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:13:16 -0500 http://pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~rsc/software has convenient packagings of libfmt, libbio, libregexp, and mk that should build on unix systems with minimal efforts. i wrote freebsd/386 and linux/386 make files and would welcome others. the libraries are intended to integrate well with the native unix c library, so that they can be used in unix programs (rather than just ports of plan 9 programs). they're all in tgz, rpm, and freebsd ports formats. enjoy. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 05:36:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 05:36:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20611 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 05:36:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20607 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 05:36:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 05:36:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 73913199F2; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:36:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.monitorbm.co.nz (www.monitorbm.co.nz [203.167.201.38]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 5ACE719980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:35:02 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 24923 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2003 20:34:57 -0000 Received: from mercury.mbmnz.co.nz (HELO MERCURY) (192.168.0.63) by mail.monitorbm.co.nz with SMTP; 12 Feb 2003 20:34:57 -0000 From: "Andrew Simmons" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3E4B6712.18432.1F0C2B7E@localhost> Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.01) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Subject: [9fans] OT - extract from the Book of Choate Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:36:18 +1300 And the tribe of Pike laboured mightily, and brought forth the Plan 9 operating system, and they looked upon the fruit of their labours, and saw that it was good. And they sent it forth into the darkness, and the darkness comprehended it not. And during the reign of Presotto, the Lord spake unto his servant Choate, and said unto him, "Thou shalt go into the land of 9fans, and thou shalt smite them, and confound them utterly." And Choate went into the land of 9fans, and said unto them, "There are no(!!!) introductory documents for new users." And they said unto him, "What about 'Getting Started with Plan 9'? And the manual pages are quite informative, and there's the Wiki, and enough information for even a Macintosh user to get the system up and running without too much trouble. And if thou get really stuck thou shalt ask on the list, and thou shalt receive an answer almost before thou hast asked, usually from the prophet Cox. And anyway, where is the introductory document that thou hast written?" And Choate said unto them, "I'm working on it." And Choate spake unto 9fans again, and said unto them, "I've yet to see an actual article in -any- of the commercial or Open Source technical or user community literature." And they said unto him, surely there have been a few articles in Dr Dobbs and other places? And anyway, where are the articles that thou hast written?" And Choate said unto them, "I'm working on it." And 9fans spake unto Choate, and said "Anyway, what hast thou done?" And Choate spake unto them, and said "I have created a mighty host of a dozen people, and I have called it Hangar 18." And 9fans said unto him, "Yes, but what hast thou actually done?" And Choate said unto them, "Nothing, but I'm working on it." And the Lord spake again unto his servant Choate, and said unto him, "Hast thou gone into the land of 9fans, and hast thou smitten them, and confounded them utterly?" And Choate said unto the Lord, "I'm working on it." From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 05:48:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 05:48:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20733 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 05:48:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20729 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 05:48:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 05:48:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F2DF819A0B; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:48:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailhost.det2.ameritech.net (mailhost1-sfldmi.sfldmi.ameritech.net [206.141.193.105]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 96215199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:47:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from ameritech.net ([67.38.15.139]) by mailhost.det2.ameritech.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with ESMTP id <20030212204705.HYXM8853.mailhost.det2.ameritech.net@ameritech.net>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:47:05 -0500 Message-ID: <3E4AB2B4.4030002@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Russ Cox Cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 software for unix References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:46:44 -0500 libbio compiles a.o.k. on SunOS-sun4u with the Linux makefile (using GCC. I dont have a spro licence). libregexp9-10 compiles fine. With libfmt I get a warning: gcc -Wall -Wno-missing-braces -Wno-parentheses -Wno-switch -O2 -g -c fltfmt.c fltfmt.c: In function `xdodtoa': fltfmt.c:180: warning: implicit declaration of function `isinf' which manifests later when linking: blueberry.north_ % make test gcc -o test test.c libfmt.a Undefined first referenced symbol in file isinf libfmt.a(fltfmt.o) ld: fatal: Symbol referencing errors. No output written to test collect2: ld returned 1 exit status make: *** [test] Error 1 blueberry.north_ % Apparently Solaris 2.9 doesn't have isinf in its libc. It does, however, have isnan() and finite(). finite() returns TRUE(1) if the argument is neither infinity nor NaN. isnan() returns TRUE if the argument is NaN. Therefore, if(finite(x) == FALSE && isnan(x) == FALSE) { // infinite found } I guess you could ifdef a macro in based on underlying architecture in the source and -Dx in the Makefile, but, it seems very non-plan9 to be so crude for just one function. Then again, creating an external dependency file seems crude for one function as well... Don From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 05:59:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 05:59:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20876 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 05:59:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20872 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 05:59:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 05:59:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7A89619A66; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:59:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from dc-mx01.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx01.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.11]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BF5A719988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:58:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from [24.197.148.57] (HELO charter.net) by dc-mx01.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with ESMTP id 47863396 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:58:26 -0500 Message-ID: <3E4AB582.2010201@charter.net> From: "adrian Damn it !" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20030119 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Future of Plan9 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:58:42 -0500 Sam wrote: > I'm in a local 9 users group in Athens, GA which I run. I've gone to the > local linux user group showcase - attendance might reach 500 all day - and > hosted a table for 9 and inferno. My experience was that technically > saavy people (read: contemporary system administrators) were curious and > impressed with simple things like bound directories and ftpfs, but > generally lost interest by the time i got around to acme. The > "enthusiasts" didn't get it at all, and really didn't like the GUI. > Conclusion? It's hard for non-programmers to see the beauty in 9. <> Sam, I`m in Lawrenceville,GA ! Didn`t know anyone was so close. Send details about your group. Adrian From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 06:02:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 06:02:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20920 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 06:02:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20916 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 06:02:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 06:02:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9479519A2A; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:02:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from scsi1.moonshynecomm.com (moonshyne.net [65.116.93.130]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3716419988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:01:05 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 6241 invoked by uid 560); 12 Feb 2003 21:00:55 -0000 Message-ID: <20030212210055.6239.qmail@scsi1.moonshynecomm.com> References: <3E4AB582.2010201@charter.net> In-Reply-To: <3E4AB582.2010201@charter.net> From: "Matt Keeler" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Re: Future of Plan9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:00:55 -0500 adrian Damn it ! writes: > Sam wrote: > >> I'm in a local 9 users group in Athens, GA which I run. I've gone to the >> local linux user group showcase - attendance might reach 500 all day - >> and >> hosted a table for 9 and inferno. My experience was that technically >> saavy people (read: contemporary system administrators) were curious and >> impressed with simple things like bound directories and ftpfs, but >> generally lost interest by the time i got around to acme. The >> "enthusiasts" didn't get it at all, and really didn't like the GUI. >> Conclusion? It's hard for non-programmers to see the beauty in 9. > > > <> > > Sam, I`m in Lawrenceville,GA ! Didn`t know anyone was so close. > Send details about your group. > > Adrian > I'm in Atlanta/Decatur :) -- Matt Keeler - matt@ircguru.org http://www.ircguru.org/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 06:09:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 06:09:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20962 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 06:09:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20958 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 06:09:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 06:09:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2A43E19A6B; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:09:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from workbench.borf.com (borf.com [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BEB6219A66 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:08:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <438c92965948be764323116774a11d2e@coraid.com> From: bwc@coraid.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Future of Plan9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:10:30 -0500 And I'm in Athens, Ga as well. (Not to be confused with Texas.) Brantley From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 07:50:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 07:50:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22200 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 07:50:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22196 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 07:50:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 07:50:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D59DA19A69; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 17:50:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D6BAD199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 17:49:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1CMmxGo001816 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:48:59 +0100 (MET) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1CMmvub018720 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:48:57 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id h1CMmuw00550 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:48:56 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200302122248.h1CMmuw00550@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/) Subject: [9fans] bitsy bootldr 2.18.1 suspend/resume: the saga continues Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:48:56 +0100 Just to continue an old thread on suspend/resume problems with a H 3630 bitsy with bootldr 2.18.1, with some (for me) new observations, hoping that this gives some inspiration on the quest to the solution... As I mentioned before, suspend/resume works ok if I suspend just a short while (few seconds). If I suspend (even only once) for a longer period, it looks like on resume only the screen returns, with backlight turned off. Also, no input is possible (no reaction to buttons or touch screen; did not try playing audio while suspend/resume). Also, via the serial cradle I do not see the 'resuming execution' debugging print statement that should follow the 'entering suspend mode' one - actually after that I see no debugging output at all. However, something seems to resume ok, which is new for me. Just noticed that if I draw a window before suspending, in which I leave the following running: while () { date; sleep 2} then on resume it continues, with the right time (longest suspend time I tried was ca. 30 minutes). Also, the window in which it runs does autoscroll as usual when the end of the screen is reached while printing the output. Also, as usual, the screen is blanked after a period of no activity (but now I have to suspend/resume to redraw it). Results are the same with and without double pcmcia sleeve; when used with sleeve: without (pcmcia) cards in the sleeve (if I use a wavelan with the double sleeve the bitsy does not suspend at all; would not be surprised if that's my fault in the double pcmcia code) So, why this long story? I did not realise before that programs continued to run, I thought that the returning screen image was just the result of a video buffer that survived. Also, I was afraid that maybe dram refresh during suspend did not work. However, now seeing that some things do work, I hope that this (for me) new information may give somebody smart an intuition of where it may pay off for me to continue looking... Axel. (of course I can try the bootldr that is know to work, but this is more... err... interesting? :-) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 07:59:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 07:59:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22309 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 07:59:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22305 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 07:59:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 07:59:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 92AA819A6A; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 17:59:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0CD1219A6C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 17:58:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15450 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 17:58:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1CMwAM17702 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 17:58:10 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302122258.h1CMwAM17702@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 software for unix In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:46:44 EST." <3E4AB2B4.4030002@ameritech.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 17:58:10 -0500 > isinf libfmt.a(fltfmt.o) > ld: fatal: Symbol referencing errors. No output written to test > collect2: ld returned 1 exit status > make: *** [test] Error 1 > blueberry.north_ % Stuff like that is annoying, but easy to work around if you have access to the libraries that come with workshop (nevermind the workshop compilers, which are the big deal). I did this: gmake ld -r -o _fltfmt.o fltfmt.o /opt/SUNWspo/WS6U2/lib/libsunmath.a mv _fltfmt.o fltfmt.o gmake test That fixed my libfmt.a. Of course, if you don't have access to the workshop libraries, you're still out of luck. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 08:44:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 08:44:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22842 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 08:44:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22838 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 08:44:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 08:44:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F304419A6D; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:44:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8F7AF199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:42:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h1CNbAT01203; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 17:37:10 -0600 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: , Subject: Re: [9fans] the usual... In-Reply-To: <012401c2d29d$479f35f0$6501a8c0@kike> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 17:37:10 -0600 (CST) On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, matt wrote: > > Agreed. My unhappiness is with the 'community' not individuals. > > there is no community > Well that responce rather speaks for itself, goes right to the heart of the problem. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 08:50:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 08:50:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22923 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 08:50:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22919 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 08:50:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 08:50:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1EACA19A76; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:50:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mcp.csh.rit.edu (mcp.csh.rit.edu [129.21.60.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7183219A6E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:49:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from csh.rit.edu (anna.csh.rit.edu [129.21.61.4]) by mcp.csh.rit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2636DA112 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:49:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3E4ADB66.3010405@csh.rit.edu> From: George Gensure User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020623 Debian/1.0.0-0.woody.1 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Some Plan9 questions References: <20030211223619.29018.qmail@scsi1.moonshynecomm.com>, <48effcda.0302121028.32e948f0@posting.google.com> <3E4A94BE.1070305@csh.rit.edu> <3E4A9807.6050009@ameritech.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:40:22 -0500 northern snowfall wrote: > Autumn is an OS written from scratch by (me) 127 Research > and Development. =) > Its not plan9. Its not UNIX. Its not Windows. Though, it takes > some philosophy from all three. > Don > What's your distribution philosophy then? (and I'm glad to see you ignored the earlier comments regarding a distinction of philosophy and code) -George From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 09:08:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 09:08:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23441 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 09:07:53 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23434 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 09:07:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 09:07:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3B37719A6E; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:07:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailhost.det3.ameritech.net (mailhost2-sfldmi.sfldmi.ameritech.net [206.141.193.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D72C4199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:06:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from ameritech.net ([67.38.15.139]) by mailhost.det3.ameritech.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with ESMTP id <20030213000538.BOPM176.mailhost.det3.ameritech.net@ameritech.net> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:05:38 -0500 Message-ID: <3E4AE144.7050701@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Some Plan9 questions References: <20030211223619.29018.qmail@scsi1.moonshynecomm.com>, <48effcda.0302121028.32e948f0@posting.google.com> <3E4A94BE.1070305@csh.rit.edu> <3E4A9807.6050009@ameritech.net> <3E4ADB66.3010405@csh.rit.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:05:24 -0500 > What's your distribution philosophy then? Though we are getting way off-topic from plan9, I'll answer this publicly. If anyone has any further questions I can probably sum up the answer by saying "sometime in the near future". Still, I'm happy to answer any questions directed to my email address. Unfortunately, distribution policy is a huge debate. I want to be able to distribute the source of the operating system while being able to maintain a stream of income, since, I am not in the financial position to initiate any research projects solely for research's sake (despite wanting to). This has obviously been a major issue since the dawn of research itself. How can we properly balance a desire to maintain lifestyle while pursuing work that truly fulfills our inherent curiosity and need to be challenged? There must be a sound way to facilitate universal research throughout the community at the same time as we stuff money into mutual funds and (overseas *wink*) bank accounts for our children to maintain a stable, opportunity filled adolescence. I spend most of my free time at the library researching this issue and I truly hope I can find a solution. Honestly, that is all I can say at this point. > (and I'm glad to see you ignored the earlier comments regarding a > distinction of philosophy and code) =) Don From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 09:29:08 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 09:29:08 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24303 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 09:28:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24292 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 09:28:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 09:28:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 92A7119A74; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:28:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F2E1A19A6C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:27:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from bar.net (h00062575a5e2.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.30.137.5]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02) with SMTP id <200302130026580020032i44e>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 00:26:58 +0000 Message-ID: <3E4AE652.2080101@bar.net> From: Glenn McGuire User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3a) Gecko/20021212 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 software for unix References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:26:58 -0500 Cool! I downloaded the RPMs to my Redhat 8 box, and the mk RPM did not work for me (I suspect the dependency on libregexp was looking for regexp, and not regexp9, but have not had the time to check it out yet.) I compiled the source in the tgz file, and it succeeded without warnings. Incidentally, it appears that newer versions of rpm have seperated the creation function to another executable named 'rpmbuild'. I made the following changes in my copy of the makefile: RPMBLD=rpmbuild RPMDIR=/usr/src/redhat [...] rpm: make tgz cp mk-$(VERSION).tgz $(RPMDIR)/SOURCES $(RPMBLD) -ba rpm.spec cp $(RPMDIR)/SRPMS/mk-$(VERSION)-1.src.rpm . cp $(RPMDIR)/RPMS/i586/mk-$(VERSION)-1.i586.rpm . I don't have the rpm.spec, so the 'rpm' build target still isn't fully functional yet. I'm happy enough that mk is working, so I'm setting this aside, but I figured I had enough feedback to make worth sending out a note. -gm Russ Cox wrote: > http://pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~rsc/software > has convenient packagings of libfmt, > libbio, libregexp, and mk that should build > on unix systems with minimal efforts. > i wrote freebsd/386 and linux/386 make files > and would welcome others. > > the libraries are intended to integrate well > with the native unix c library, so that they > can be used in unix programs (rather than > just ports of plan 9 programs). > > they're all in tgz, rpm, and freebsd ports formats. > enjoy. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 09:31:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 09:31:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24387 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 09:31:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24383 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 09:31:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 09:31:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D71719A7D; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:31:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F41AF19A7A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:30:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from bar.net (h00062575a5e2.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.30.137.5]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01) with SMTP id <2003021300305600100g24bge>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 00:30:56 +0000 Message-ID: <3E4AE741.6060504@bar.net> From: Glenn McGuire User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3a) Gecko/20021212 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Looking for namespace details References: <3E45339D.7070008@bar.net> <5b948114be398d18776c5668ef24157b@plan9.escet.urjc.es> In-Reply-To: <5b948114be398d18776c5668ef24157b@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:30:57 -0500 Thanks all. I didn't expect such speedy replies on a saturday! -gm From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 09:37:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 09:37:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24568 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 09:37:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24557 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 09:37:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 09:37:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0262C19A78; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:37:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 67A9119A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:36:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h1D0aqqv014270 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:36:52 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Skip Tavakkolian" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] My Plan9 software collection (such as it is) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:47:34 -0800 FYI: http://www.9netics.com/who/fst/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 10:53:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 10:53:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27524 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 10:53:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27518 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 10:53:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 10:53:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0F9E7199B3; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 20:53:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0AA20199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 20:52:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10743; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 20:52:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1D1qUM18608; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 20:52:30 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302130152.h1D1qUM18608@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: hangar18-general@open-forge.org, hell@einstein.ssz.com Subject: Re: [9fans] the usual... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 12 Feb 2003 17:37:10 CST." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 20:52:30 -0500 > Well that responce rather speaks for itself, goes right to the heart of > the problem. One wonders when, in the course of an individuals public record of contribution, it becomes obvious that that individual has produced nothing of note, and produced no end except to promote divisiveness and strife, it doesn't become expedient to boot that individual off the mailing list. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 11:34:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 11:34:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28960 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 11:34:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28956 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 11:34:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 11:34:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 85D0D19A77; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 21:34:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DBE88199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 21:33:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Feb 12 21:33:30 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Wed Feb 12 21:33:28 EST 2003 Message-ID: <9f508ee5cd2efb666952b99b2056eebd@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 software for unix From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <200302122258.h1CMwAM17702@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 21:33:36 -0500 This was an embarrassing oversight on my part. I provided (a portable!) __isInf and __isNaN in nan64.c but didn't rewrite fltfmt to use them. There are updated packages on the web pages. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 11:52:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 11:52:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29570 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 11:52:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29565 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 11:52:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 11:52:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CF85F19A7B; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 21:52:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0CC9A19A7B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 21:51:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1D2ovLp017503 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:50:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca) Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with ESMTP id h1D2ovn1017500 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:50:57 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] the usual... In-Reply-To: <200302130152.h1D1qUM18608@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: <20030212193414.X14250@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> References: <200302130152.h1D1qUM18608@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:50:57 -0700 (MST) on one hand people are suggesting the last two days' worth of traffic resembles the freebsd soap opera aired not long ago: http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=92148+0+current/freebsd-chat on the other, you have this old quote from, i believe, presotto with regards to one TB: Leave Thomas alone. Someone has to whack the hornets nest with a branch every now and again just to remind the hornets that they're still alive. so, which one are we having? andrey ps: personally, after trying (and failing) to persuade people that plan9 is worth a try (for the third time) at ucalgary, choate's little rant that started everything off definitely seems to have touched a note with me... On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > > Well that responce rather speaks for itself, goes right to the heart of > > the problem. > > One wonders when, in the course of an individuals public record of > contribution, it becomes obvious that that individual has produced > nothing of note, and produced no end except to promote divisiveness > and strife, it doesn't become expedient to boot that individual off > the mailing list. > > - Dan C. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 18:03:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 18:03:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10218 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 18:03:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10214 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 18:03:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 18:03:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 04B5419999; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 04:03:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from netscape.com (r2d2.aoltw.net [64.236.137.26]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2D3F619A3E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 04:02:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from yoda.mcom.com (yoda.ie.office.aol.com [10.128.72.204]) by netscape.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id h1D92TY26790 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 01:02:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from will551 ([10.128.74.77]) by yoda.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id HA8P4300.KAG for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:02:27 +0000 Message-ID: <063e01c2d33e$9df94f70$4d4a800a@will551> From: "Conor Williams" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <47ba03a0d75f21fcb5985bfeb9bb0aa7@9fs.org> Subject: Re: [9fans] mpg123 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:02:20 -0000 nice 1 Nigel - that worked a peach. There wasnt any noticable change warping wise really... I still like my 0.001 hack! Tad & Russ - maybe incorporate the change below into layer3.c on those 2 ports of mpg123. l8r will551 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 11:26 AM Subject: Re: [9fans] mpg123 > > thanks Nigel > > Heard my first plan9 mp3 late last night! > > I ended up subtracting 0.001 from that eqation and let > > it run the 1 -> 16 loop! doesnt seem to have warped it 2 > > much! > > That's almost bound to be a bad decision. It will warp > all the values, rather than just the one which I suspect > is not used. > > You forced me to get my copy of 11172-3 off the shelf. > > These tables are used for intensity coding, e.g. the left > channel has the intensity of the frequency bucket, > the right channel the pan ratio. > > Given that the equation is > > ratio = tan(pos * pi / 12) > L' = L * ratio / (1 + ratio) > R' = R * 1 / (1 + ratio) > > which can be rewritten as > > ratio = tan(pos * pi / 12) > R = ratio/(1 + ratio) > L' = L * R > R' = L * (1 - R) > > R = 0 pans fully to the right, and increasing values > tend towards the left. When R hits 1, it is fully > panned to the left. > > The tan function tends to infinity at 90 degrees, or > PI/2 radians. Thus is makes no sense for pos to > take a value > 6. In fact, 6 itself is special. You can > interpret it as meaning R = 1. > > The spec. indicates that pos == 7 disables the panning > effect. > > So I contend that encoders will only generate values > from 0 - 7, even though the field can be 4 bits, only > 3 are used for intensity coding. Thus my fix will > trash one row of the pow[] table which is generated > in the same loop, which does use 4 bits. > > If you look at mad (libmad/layer3.c), you will see that > it confirms this. The implementor of mad clearly > thought about what this part of 11172-3 is supposed > to achieve. > > A better fix is therefore: > > > for(i=0;i<16;i++) { > double r; > > if (i < 6) { > double t = tan( (double) i * M_PI / 12.0 ); > r = t / (1.0 + t); > } > else > r = 1.0; > > tan1_1[i] = r; > tan2_1[i] = 1.0 - r; > tan1_2[i] = M_SQRT2 * r; > tan2_2[i] = M_SQRT2 * (1.0 - r); > > > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 18:08:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 18:08:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10348 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 18:08:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10340 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 18:08:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 18:08:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DEA2019A80; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 04:08:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from netscape.com (c3po.aoltw.net [64.236.137.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3E89B1998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 04:07:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from yoda.mcom.com (yoda.ie.office.aol.com [10.128.72.204]) by netscape.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id h1D97jZ13622 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 01:07:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from will551 ([10.128.74.77]) by yoda.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id HA8PCM00.1AP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:07:34 +0000 Message-ID: <064401c2d33f$5ab5a7d0$4d4a800a@will551> From: "Conor Williams" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <2c9e36c062108fc848979b7b781af627@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet problem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:07:37 -0000 thanks Russ got the problem fixed which was easily spotted after running debug - I was missing a dom=home.net line so I put it on the same line as the auth and authdom line at the bottom... one thing - that url is a link to the binary not the gziped binary! so a mv debug.gz debug did the trick got my printer setup the other day. a: bind -a '#'L2 /dev found the right parallel port configuration and I changed the devices file to include a gs!laserjet line and set the spooler to nospool - that transparent gs incorporation is very powerful - I can now print postscript with lp. l8r Conor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Cox" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 1:03 PM Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet problem > Your /lib/ndb/local file looks okay. I'm not sure > exactly what's wrong. You really need to run > auth/debug on the auth server. > > hget http://pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~rsc/debug.gz |gunzip >/bin/auth/debug > auth/debug > > Russ > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 18:50:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 18:50:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11266 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 18:50:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11262 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 18:50:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 18:50:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3399219A83; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 04:50:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A3F6419A04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 04:49:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18jFpe-00011v-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:39:02 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: maynard Message-ID: <39272337.0302122339.3c09f791@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] Plan9 n00b questions Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:38:18 GMT I have been playing with Plan9 since com release in 95 (yeap bought the book and cd's :) but due to single box hardware conflicts (it wouldnt co-exist with windoz) I shelfed it over and over. Tweeked my current hardware and played with the vga and have a standalone server running. So I'm back in the learning curve (forgotten everything I learned before) I have a question; I would like to send and receive email whilst im playing with p9, I use bellsouth ADSL for Internet, Is there some documentation that someone could point me to for a pop client (to get my bellsouth.net mail and smtp to I can forward mail out of plan9? thx in advance From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 18:50:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 18:50:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11274 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 18:50:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11270 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 18:50:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 18:50:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 66E5E1998C; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 04:50:19 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 517C419A81 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 04:49:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18jFpd-00011p-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:39:01 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Saroj Mahapatra Message-ID: <6d3220b4.0302121654.66a0f55e@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] bug in v4parseip? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:38:08 GMT v4parseip function code in libip/ipparse.c looks suspicious. First of all, I don't know why it bothers about class A or B given the trend towards classless addresses? Next, if it is trying to handle inputs of the form: a.b.c and a.b, then the problem is that c in the first case can be a 24-bit integer and b in the second case can be a 16-bit integer; the code assigns those parts to a 'uchar' resulting in truncation. Or, did I misunderstand the code? Thank you, Saroj Mahapatra From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 18:50:55 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 18:50:55 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11285 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 18:50:55 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11281 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 18:50:55 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 18:50:55 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0C92B19A8C; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 04:50:28 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 61895199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 04:49:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18jFpd-00011j-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:39:01 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Jeffrey Haun Message-ID: <6ef76860.0302121402.3a63f201@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:37:58 GMT I ask this in all seriousness...After visiting the main page at bell labs, and reading from the links there, I'm sorta missing the point of Plan 9. The interface is nice. But applications are sparce. What is the draw of thie OS. I tried to install it. But the hardware I have is not supported. So why go to the trouble. Why does the bunny not die??? Why do YOU use Plan 9 and not Linux/FreeBSD? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 19:02:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 19:02:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11598 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 19:02:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11594 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 19:02:51 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 19:02:51 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BF35619A86; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 05:02:40 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E695719A64 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 05:01:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h1DA1sqv012389 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 02:01:59 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan9 n00b questions From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: <39272337.0302122339.3c09f791@posting.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 02:12:35 -0800 > Is > there some documentation that someone could point me to for a pop > client (to get my bellsouth.net mail and smtp to I can forward mail > out of plan9? Look at the wiki pages for "Mail configuration", at the official site. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 19:05:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 19:05:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11649 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 19:05:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11645 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 19:05:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 19:05:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D674B19A8B; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 05:05:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mx01.netapp.com (mx01.netapp.com [198.95.226.53]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C4B8A19A87 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 05:04:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from frejya.corp.netapp.com (frejya [10.10.20.91]) by mx01.netapp.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/NTAP-1.4) with ESMTP id h1DA47YW006659 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 02:04:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from place.org ([192.168.77.251]) by frejya.corp.netapp.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/NTAP-1.4) with ESMTP id h1DA46v6024200 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 02:04:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3E4B6D96.9010203@place.org> From: Stephen Wynne User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... References: <6ef76860.0302121402.3a63f201@posting.google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 02:04:06 -0800 Jeffrey Haun wrote: > Why does the bunny not die??? I think there are two reasons. First, the creators of UNIX had a hand in creating Plan 9. It's an attempt to take the lessons of distributing UNIX and implement them; it's also a basis for exploring advanced computing infrastructure concepts such as the Venti file folding architecture. Second, it appeals to those of us who think that simplicity is the only thing that scales in computing (even if we're not all equally adept at making simple solutions). I want to learn from the creators and contributors, for example. In short, Plan 9 is a fresh start at computing, unconstrained by previous approaches established with DOS, Windows, UNIX, and other environments. It doesn't claim to be the only alternative, it's one that interests us. Immediately, Plan 9 has great potential as an embedded and distributed appliance platform. Industrial systems need to be as small and clear as possible. Plan 9 offers that in many ways. > Why do YOU use Plan 9 and not Linux/FreeBSD? I'll let someone who usually uses Plan 9 on the desktop answer that question. Steve From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 19:12:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 19:12:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11819 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 19:12:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11815 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 19:12:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 19:12:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D080319A88; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 05:12:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from littlegreenmen.armory.com (littlegreenmen.armory.com [192.122.209.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id D951819A64 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 05:11:29 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 9177 invoked by uid 0); 13 Feb 2003 10:11:29 -0000 From: Phil White To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... Message-ID: <20030213101129.GA8988@littlegreenmen.armory.com> References: <6ef76860.0302121402.3a63f201@posting.google.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <6ef76860.0302121402.3a63f201@posting.google.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 02:11:29 -0800 Kinda funny. We had a similar question on the 9fans list. The draw of it is that it's probably the most complete take on a distributed operating system built from the ground up with completely new concepts. As someone on 9fans put it, it's an entry not into the market, but into the market of ideas. The applications that exist for it are those which fans port for it. Several things have been ported from *nix over to plan9. It's not necessarily something that you use instead of Linux or FreeBSD; it's something you use alongside Linux or FreeBSD. If youre having problems installing it, there's two main options. One is to use VMWare (Russ Cox uses VMWare to run plan 9). The other is to get an account from Hangar 18 or my system (the Armory plan9 network) when we open it up (Probably in a few weeks). -Phil/CERisE On Thu, Feb 13, 2003 at 09:37:58AM +0000, Jeffrey Haun wrote: > I ask this in all seriousness...After visiting the main page at bell > labs, and reading from the links there, I'm sorta missing the point of > Plan 9. The interface is nice. But applications are sparce. What is > the draw of thie OS. I tried to install it. But the hardware I have is > not supported. So why go to the trouble. Why does the bunny not die??? > Why do YOU use Plan 9 and not Linux/FreeBSD? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 19:24:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 19:24:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12114 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 19:24:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12110 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 19:24:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 19:24:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EE2BF19A8E; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 05:24:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C819919A8D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 05:23:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h1DANGqv009202 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 02:23:16 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: <6ef76860.0302121402.3a63f201@posting.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 02:33:29 -0800 > I ask this in all seriousness...After visiting the main page at bell > labs, and reading from the links there, I'm sorta missing the point of > Plan 9. Did you read the first paper in the Introduction section of the page below? http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sys/doc/index.html The four papers here would give you a somewhat complete view into Plan9's novel ideas that have and are finding their way into *BSD and Linux. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 19:24:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 19:24:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12122 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 19:24:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12118 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 19:24:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 19:24:36 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE00D19A93; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 05:24:18 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DB29319A8A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 05:23:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1DAMxmt021860 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:23:00 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h1DAMtVj021859 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:22:55 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... Message-ID: <20030213122252.P9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <6ef76860.0302121402.3a63f201@posting.google.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <6ef76860.0302121402.3a63f201@posting.google.com>; from Jeffrey Haun on Thu, Feb 13, 2003 at 09:37:58AM +0000 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:22:53 +0200 On Thu, Feb 13, 2003 at 09:37:58AM +0000, Jeffrey Haun wrote: > > Why do YOU use Plan 9 and not Linux/FreeBSD? Because it's more interesting. Linux stopped being interesting as soon as it advanced from Minix . I use NetBSD for production work, but Plan 9 is full of novel ideas. Do you re-read the same book all the time, or do you read new ones? Do you watch a single good movie? Speaking for myself, of course. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 21:29:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 21:29:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14599 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 21:29:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14595 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 21:29:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 21:29:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6160219A91; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 07:29:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 512B3199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 07:28:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8896b442195fea6310edc7d718565305@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Eric Grosse To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 software for unix In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-uazvflnffhnwrfdlesrztqlfym" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 07:28:31 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-uazvflnffhnwrfdlesrztqlfym Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In the interests of keeping down the number of versions, I'm willing to remove the material from netlib and point to your mit directory, if that makes you editing life easier. Or we can move it to someplace else on the Plan 9 web server. Just to clarify, too: I'm not mandating that there be a single version. If the difficulties in getting portable code to compile everywhere pushes us to have a few versions, so be it. I just have a desire to minimize confusion. --upas-uazvflnffhnwrfdlesrztqlfym Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from scummy.research.bell-labs.com ([135.104.2.10]) by plan9; Wed Feb 12 15:14:39 EST 2003 Received: from dusty.research.bell-labs.com (dusty.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.7]) by scummy.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h1CKESI25439 for ; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:14:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by dusty.research.bell-labs.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1CKBLoJ072229 for ; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:11:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D773619A60; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:14:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9DBCC19988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:13:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Feb 12 15:13:18 EST 2003 Received: from 18.24.6.245 ([18.24.6.245]) by plan9; Wed Feb 12 15:13:14 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] plan 9 software for unix Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:13:16 -0500 http://pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~rsc/software has convenient packagings of libfmt, libbio, libregexp, and mk that should build on unix systems with minimal efforts. i wrote freebsd/386 and linux/386 make files and would welcome others. the libraries are intended to integrate well with the native unix c library, so that they can be used in unix programs (rather than just ports of plan 9 programs). they're all in tgz, rpm, and freebsd ports formats. enjoy. --upas-uazvflnffhnwrfdlesrztqlfym-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 22:20:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 22:20:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15275 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 22:20:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15271 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 22:20:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 22:20:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B94AF19A31; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 08:20:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 00049199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 08:19:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 software for unix From: Eric Grosse MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 08:19:23 -0500 Caught again by Reply-To... I intended to send that last message just to Russ. The context is that we're trying to avoid having too many differing versions of libfmt, etc. floating around. Eric From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 22:55:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 22:55:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15836 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 22:55:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15832 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 22:55:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 22:55:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A910219A00; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 08:55:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0288F199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 08:54:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Feb 13 08:54:55 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Thu Feb 13 08:54:52 EST 2003 Message-ID: <14461cb50de52a55cf67cd23d550b629@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <6ef76860.0302121402.3a63f201@posting.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 08:54:57 -0500 > Why do YOU use Plan 9 and not Linux/FreeBSD? Because more often than not, Plan 9 doesn't get in my way when I try to do something on my computer; and more often than not, Linux/FreeBSD do. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 23:02:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 23:02:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15947 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 23:02:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15943 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 23:02:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 23:02:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B3CFC19A2F; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:02:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailhost.det2.ameritech.net (mailhost1-sfldmi.sfldmi.ameritech.net [206.141.193.105]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1CA13199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:01:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from ameritech.net ([67.38.15.139]) by mailhost.det2.ameritech.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with ESMTP id <20030213140112.SGND8853.mailhost.det2.ameritech.net@ameritech.net> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:01:12 -0500 Message-ID: <3E4BA501.20807@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... References: <6ef76860.0302121402.3a63f201@posting.google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:00:33 -0500 > > >Why do YOU use Plan 9 and not Linux/FreeBSD? > Because, when I'm out in public with my laptop and chicks see my little "faces" window in the corner of the screen with that slick lookin blackhat bitmap, they know I'm a wicked cool hacker with mad stylez (just like in the movies!!!). Ohhhhhh yeaahhhhh.. its _all_ about the chiqz Don > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 23:02:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 23:02:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15960 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 23:02:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15956 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 23:02:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 23:02:38 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7EB85199BE; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:02:19 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 12439199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:01:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1DE12mt022242 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:01:04 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h1DE0wmC022241 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:00:58 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... Message-ID: <20030213160057.W9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <6ef76860.0302121402.3a63f201@posting.google.com> <14461cb50de52a55cf67cd23d550b629@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <14461cb50de52a55cf67cd23d550b629@plan9.bell-labs.com>; from Russ Cox on Thu, Feb 13, 2003 at 08:54:57AM -0500 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:00:57 +0200 On Thu, Feb 13, 2003 at 08:54:57AM -0500, Russ Cox wrote: > > Because more often than not, Plan 9 doesn't get in > my way when I try to do something on my computer; > and more often than not, Linux/FreeBSD do. I think MS-DOS 3.3 fits the above even better than Plan 9 . ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 23:21:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 23:21:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16237 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 23:21:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16233 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 23:21:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 23:21:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 17F4619A3E; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:21:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from XMAIL.asuch.cas.cz (clusterb.asuch.cas.cz [147.231.136.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B16B519A2D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:20:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from picture ([147.231.139.42]) by XMAIL.asuch.cas.cz over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:20:31 +0100 Message-ID: <000801c2d36b$10c71880$2a8be793@gli.cas.cz> From: "peter a. cejchan" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Organization: paleobiology & paleoecology lab MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2D373.7280D220" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Feb 2003 14:20:31.0426 (UTC) FILETIME=[10A8E220:01C2D36B] Subject: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:20:31 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2D373.7280D220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Feb 13, 2003 at 09:37:58AM +0000, Jeffrey Haun wrote: > > Why do YOU use Plan 9 and not Linux/FreeBSD? plan 9 is ELEGANT. and yes, i'm a mere user, not a programmer... (this is my historical trajectory from 1986 on: cp/m -> dos -> windoze = -> nextstep -> linux -> plan9) ++pac. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2D373.7280D220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Thu, Feb 13, 2003 at 09:37:58AM +0000, = Jeffrey Haun=20 wrote:
>
>  Why do YOU use Plan 9 = and not=20 Linux/FreeBSD?
plan 9 is ELEGANT. and yes, i'm a mere user, not = a=20 programmer...
(this is my historical trajectory from 1986 on: = cp/m ->=20 dos -> windoze -> nextstep -> linux -> plan9)
 
++pac.
 
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2D373.7280D220-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 13 23:27:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 13 23:27:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16305 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Feb 2003 23:27:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16301 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 23:27:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 23:27:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4903819A40; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:27:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AC148199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:26:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h1DEQ6t10293 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:26:06 -0500 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] x86 related datasheets Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:26:06 -0500 (EST) I'm building an x86 programming and datasheet cache, starting with the contents of http://www.0xfi.com/oslib/. I plan to make this index web accessible for other 9ers to use. If you have a datasheet/programming manual for a part used with x86 and would like to share them, please send them along. If the document cannot be publicly shared, please state so. If you want the document added to the index, please provide any notes you feel are pertinent to using the document. As an example, if a document is titled, "M68060 User's Manual," an appropriate note is "MC68060, MC68LC060, MC68EC060," indicating the processors the document covers. Cheers, Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 00:22:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 00:22:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17015 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 00:22:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17011 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 00:22:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 00:22:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 00298199BC; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:22:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B371199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:21:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <713e94f597696a29dd5a3ef441a109ca@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bug in v4parseip? In-Reply-To: <6d3220b4.0302121654.66a0f55e@posting.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:21:09 -0500 On Thu Feb 13 04:50:37 EST 2003, saroj@optonline.net wrote: > v4parseip function code in libip/ipparse.c looks suspicious. First of > all, I don't know why it bothers about class A or B given the trend > towards classless addresses? Classless or not, the most standard string form of v4 IP addresss is a set of dot separated decimal numbers, each number representing an octet. The only truncated form was the class{ABC} one and such truncated addresses (such as 127.1) are still very common. Ignoring them would be a disservice. Hence the class sensitivity. > Next, if it is trying to handle inputs of > the form: a.b.c and a.b, then the problem is that c in the first case > can be a 24-bit integer and b in the second case can be a 16-bit > integer; the code assigns those parts to a 'uchar' resulting in > truncation. Or, did I misunderstand the code? In the (classy?) truncated forms a, b, and c are still required to be octet representations. You understood the code, just not the representation. If you do indeed use 10.100000, you won't get what you want. I've never seen that form defined and am not totally sure what the correct value would be, though BSD would convert it to 10.1.134.160 which is the result I would have guessed at. What should 192.100000.1 be? If there really is a well accepted definition of what non octet representations yield, I'ld be happy to implement that. If its a side effect of the BSD conversion, I'ld be less thrilled. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 00:22:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 00:22:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17023 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 00:22:52 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17019 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 00:22:52 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 00:22:52 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F44819A05; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:22:20 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (mail.math.Princeton.EDU [128.112.18.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C24019981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:21:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from math.Princeton.EDU (IDENT:UYuiB2ZsygnLu/B73T4RENBh9IF+ewn1@math.Princeton.EDU [128.112.18.16]) by Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h1DFLqq01427 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:21:52 -0500 Received: from math.Princeton.EDU (IDENT:JS8shzoq40Q527xP7/0sewCozldAvVLM@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by math.Princeton.EDU (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h1DFLpG10205 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:21:51 -0500 Message-Id: <200302131521.h1DFLpG10205@math.Princeton.EDU> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: John Stalker Subject: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:21:51 -0500 From Jeffrey Haun : >I ask this in all seriousness...After visiting the main page at bell >labs, and reading from the links there, I'm sorta missing the point of >Plan 9. The interface is nice. But applications are sparce. What is >the draw of thie OS. I tried to install it. But the hardware I have is >not supported. So why go to the trouble. Why does the bunny not die??? > Why do YOU use Plan 9 and not Linux/FreeBSD? The following is just my personal opinion. I don't really use plan9 to do productive work. I use primarily FreeBSD at home and Linux at work, though I have computers with NetBSD, WinME, and plan9 installed on them. The main reason I installed plan9 was to see how it works. It is a small and well designed OS. Those are hard to find. Early linux is small, but not well designed. If you want to write software it is a relatively easy platform to write for. There are two reasons I don't use it seriously and probably never will. Hardware: Yes, it is not easy to get plan9 to work with your hardware. A small user and developer means few drivers. You can buy hardware specifically for plan9, and I have bought a graphics card specifically for its plan9 support, but hardware is definitely a problem. For this reason I have plan9 only on one machine, even though its strength is distributed computing. Software: Some applications are very nice. Acme is a good example. There are very few applications though. Some important categories, e.g. graphical web browsing, aren't really covered. I don't know of a single plan9 game. No, fortune is not a game. I would say running plan9 is a good idea if you want to learn about systems programming, do a bit yourself, and maybe borrow some ideas. If you want a nice stable system with good hardware and software support then you are much better off with FreeBSD. The other reason to use plan9 is glenda, the bunny. She is pretty cute. -- John Stalker Department of Mathematics Princeton University (609)258-6469 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 00:39:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 00:39:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17219 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 00:39:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17215 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 00:39:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 00:39:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1499619A60; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:39:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E2E8F199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:38:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h1DFc9RV002750 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 08:38:09 -0700 Received: (qmail 6708 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 08:38:08 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 08:38:08 -0700 Received: (qmail 24715 invoked by uid 3499); 13 Feb 2003 08:38:08 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 08:38:08 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... In-Reply-To: <200302131521.h1DFLpG10205@math.Princeton.EDU> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 08:38:08 -0700 (MST) - in the long run, an OS which uses integer IDs is totally useless for distributed computing. I learned that one the hard way 11 years ago with a large enough Condor flock. Globus should have learned it the hard way by now but for some reason they have not. - "you can't secure a system with a privileged user" - Spaf How many other OSes avoid having root/administrator/you-name-it accounts. Bad deal. Plan 9 avoids this mess. - device numbers are a Bad Thing, but the various Unix derivatives still are having trouble doing a devfs that works well. No such issues in Plan 9. - It's nice to be able to (as a user) mount and unmount things, esp. CDROMs etc. Doing it without setuid-root kludgery is even nicer - Graphics that you can program without a 2000-page stack of packs. Now there's a concept. That's just a few things. It all boils down to Unix being past the point of smelling bad, now it's a set of decaying bones with no smell. We need to figure out what comes next. Arguably, that should have been Plan 9 ca. 1991, but that's another story. It's hard to believe that in 10 years we'll all still be running Linux or BSD, so it makes sense to try to see what we SHOULD be running. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 00:44:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 00:44:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17268 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 00:44:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17264 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 00:44:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 00:44:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5A54219A7F; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:44:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.119.131.80]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 79AE719A75 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:43:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (boyd@zode.strakt.com [62.119.131.76]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h1DFhfxw023637 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:43:41 +0100 Message-ID: <3E4BBD2C.4070204@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020623 Debian/1.0.0-0.woody.1 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:43:40 +0100 Ronald G. Minnich wrote: >It's hard to believe that in 10 years we'll all still be running >Linux or BSD, ... > It's hard enough to believe we're running them _now_ ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 00:53:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 00:53:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17427 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 00:53:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17423 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 00:53:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 00:53:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D023419A8D; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:53:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from littlegreenmen.armory.com (littlegreenmen.armory.com [192.122.209.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 51FF419A82 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:53:00 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 11831 invoked by uid 713); 13 Feb 2003 15:53:00 -0000 From: Phil White To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... Message-ID: <20030213155300.GB11548@littlegreenmen.armory.com> References: <3E4BBD2C.4070204@strakt.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3E4BBD2C.4070204@strakt.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 07:53:00 -0800 On Thu, Feb 13, 2003 at 04:43:40PM +0100, Boyd Roberts wrote: > > It's hard enough to believe we're running them _now_ ... > You sound like a COBOL programmer around the turn of the century ; ) -Phil/CERisE From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 00:56:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 00:56:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17453 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 00:56:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17449 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 00:56:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 00:56:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1570E19A64; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:56:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 06AE619A28 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:55:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1DFtimt022532 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:55:45 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h1DFtiq2022531 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:55:44 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bug in v4parseip? Message-ID: <20030213175543.B9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <6d3220b4.0302121654.66a0f55e@posting.google.com> <713e94f597696a29dd5a3ef441a109ca@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <713e94f597696a29dd5a3ef441a109ca@plan9.bell-labs.com>; from David Presotto on Thu, Feb 13, 2003 at 10:21:09AM -0500 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:55:43 +0200 On Thu, Feb 13, 2003 at 10:21:09AM -0500, David Presotto wrote: > > In the (classy?) truncated forms a, b, and c are still required Classful > to be octet representations. You understood the code, just not Not to my knowledge, although there probably isn't an RFC to cover it. I assume that class A addresses take exactly two values (127.1 or 10.100000) and B addresses allow three values (168.210.45000, say) as alternatives to the more conventional dot-quad. > the representation. If you do indeed use 10.100000, you won't > get what you want. I've never seen that form defined and am > not totally sure what the correct value would be, though BSD > would convert it to 10.1.134.160 which is the result I would > have guessed at. What should 192.100000.1 be? If there 192.100000.1 is invalid, a class C address should not be representable in less than four octets. The big clue is in the man page for the Unix 'route' command: For example, 128.32 is interpreted as -host 128.0.0.32; 128.32.130 is in- terpreted as -host 128.32.0.130; -net 128.32 is interpreted as 128.32.0.0; and -net 128.32.130 is interpreted as 128.32.130.0. I haven't access to Xenix, where route had no mechanism to select between hosts and nets and the description was more appropriate than the above. I do note that the above contradicts my belief that two values only apply to class A, three to class B and four to class C, but it does indicate, vaguely, that 192.100000.1 is inappropriate. You may have a point that only octets (0-255) are permitted, though. On the other hand, is it a BSDism that allows spammers to specify 32-bit addresses in URLs? > really is a well accepted definition of what non > octet representations yield, I'ld be happy to implement > that. If its a side effect of the BSD conversion, I'ld > be less thrilled. I think this type of class consciousness is disappearing from NetBSD, at least. I think even 127.1 is no longer treated sensibly in some of the library functions. 0.0.0.0, incidentally, seems no longer to mean 127.0.0.1, either. It's laziness, I think, although CIDR does justify it. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 01:06:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 01:06:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17566 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 01:06:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17562 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 01:06:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 01:06:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6DB8319A71; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:06:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0286419980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:05:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18jLqD-0002nf-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:04:01 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Will Message-ID: <66615df7.0302130751.377adcb4@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] telnet/auth question Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:03:55 GMT In telneting (or con'ing) into a my plan-9 auth server from unix, I get the securenet challenge/response thing. This seems to match the securenet man page. I also get the challenge/response prompts when I attempt to telnet in from a plan-9 machine. Is this correct? Somewhat related: cpu and auth/login work fine and give the plan-9 authorization prompts as expected. Thanks to all, and to the person who asked why use plan-9: Don't ever stop learning new things. It keeps life much more interesting. Will From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 01:11:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 01:11:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17618 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 01:11:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17614 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 01:11:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 01:11:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1D8FF19A84; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:11:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0770719A25 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:10:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Feb 13 11:10:28 EST 2003 Received: from 18.24.6.245 ([18.24.6.245]) by plan9; Thu Feb 13 11:10:26 EST 2003 Message-ID: <86d509287286c6ddd3e9eb24e7b2b9ee@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet/auth question From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <66615df7.0302130751.377adcb4@posting.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:10:27 -0500 > In telneting (or con'ing) into a my plan-9 auth server from unix, I > get the securenet challenge/response thing. This seems to match the > securenet man page. I also get the challenge/response prompts when I > attempt to telnet in from a plan-9 machine. Is this correct? yes, that's correct. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 01:12:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 01:12:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17627 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 01:12:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17623 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 01:12:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 01:12:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9314319A8A; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:12:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0ECEE19A66 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:11:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <65efadb3b2bfd974d49f10fb9d4e57d0@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet/auth question In-Reply-To: <66615df7.0302130751.377adcb4@posting.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-vbdyqzmwilfzqfeypnssxuermy" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:11:25 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-vbdyqzmwilfzqfeypnssxuermy Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That's correct, we're paranoids. You can run netkey to encrypt the challenge and send then type that in. For a Unix netkey look at the plan9 /sys/src/cmd/unix/netkey directory. --upas-vbdyqzmwilfzqfeypnssxuermy Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Feb 13 11:06:26 EST 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Feb 13 11:06:24 EST 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 18B2B19A6F; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:06:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0286419980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:05:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18jLqD-0002nf-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:04:01 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Will Message-ID: <66615df7.0302130751.377adcb4@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] telnet/auth question Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:03:55 GMT In telneting (or con'ing) into a my plan-9 auth server from unix, I get the securenet challenge/response thing. This seems to match the securenet man page. I also get the challenge/response prompts when I attempt to telnet in from a plan-9 machine. Is this correct? Somewhat related: cpu and auth/login work fine and give the plan-9 authorization prompts as expected. Thanks to all, and to the person who asked why use plan-9: Don't ever stop learning new things. It keeps life much more interesting. Will --upas-vbdyqzmwilfzqfeypnssxuermy-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 01:13:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 01:13:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17643 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 01:13:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17639 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 01:13:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 01:13:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 71F4519A95; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:13:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 33B9319A68 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:12:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <7e53fecd6078858c09db7ffb35383c02@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bug in v4parseip? In-Reply-To: <20030213175543.B9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-bfwykgtbofqklccmcsfqncreyw" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:12:25 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-bfwykgtbofqklccmcsfqncreyw Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit that still doesn't give me a definition. I guess the implied definition is do whatever BSD is doing at the moment? --upas-bfwykgtbofqklccmcsfqncreyw Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Feb 13 10:56:21 EST 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Feb 13 10:56:18 EST 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C1DD219A63; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:56:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 06AE619A28 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:55:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1DFtimt022532 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:55:45 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h1DFtiq2022531 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:55:44 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bug in v4parseip? Message-ID: <20030213175543.B9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <6d3220b4.0302121654.66a0f55e@posting.google.com> <713e94f597696a29dd5a3ef441a109ca@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <713e94f597696a29dd5a3ef441a109ca@plan9.bell-labs.com>; from David Presotto on Thu, Feb 13, 2003 at 10:21:09AM -0500 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:55:43 +0200 On Thu, Feb 13, 2003 at 10:21:09AM -0500, David Presotto wrote: > > In the (classy?) truncated forms a, b, and c are still required Classful > to be octet representations. You understood the code, just not Not to my knowledge, although there probably isn't an RFC to cover it. I assume that class A addresses take exactly two values (127.1 or 10.100000) and B addresses allow three values (168.210.45000, say) as alternatives to the more conventional dot-quad. > the representation. If you do indeed use 10.100000, you won't > get what you want. I've never seen that form defined and am > not totally sure what the correct value would be, though BSD > would convert it to 10.1.134.160 which is the result I would > have guessed at. What should 192.100000.1 be? If there 192.100000.1 is invalid, a class C address should not be representable in less than four octets. The big clue is in the man page for the Unix 'route' command: For example, 128.32 is interpreted as -host 128.0.0.32; 128.32.130 is in- terpreted as -host 128.32.0.130; -net 128.32 is interpreted as 128.32.0.0; and -net 128.32.130 is interpreted as 128.32.130.0. I haven't access to Xenix, where route had no mechanism to select between hosts and nets and the description was more appropriate than the above. I do note that the above contradicts my belief that two values only apply to class A, three to class B and four to class C, but it does indicate, vaguely, that 192.100000.1 is inappropriate. You may have a point that only octets (0-255) are permitted, though. On the other hand, is it a BSDism that allows spammers to specify 32-bit addresses in URLs? > really is a well accepted definition of what non > octet representations yield, I'ld be happy to implement > that. If its a side effect of the BSD conversion, I'ld > be less thrilled. I think this type of class consciousness is disappearing from NetBSD, at least. I think even 127.1 is no longer treated sensibly in some of the library functions. 0.0.0.0, incidentally, seems no longer to mean 127.0.0.1, either. It's laziness, I think, although CIDR does justify it. ++L --upas-bfwykgtbofqklccmcsfqncreyw-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 01:15:04 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 01:15:04 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17669 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 01:15:04 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17665 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 01:15:03 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 01:15:03 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B53B19980; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:14:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C22E619A92 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:13:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8e0ee8fda6f83179664177ba94075f51@plan9.escet.urjc.es> From: Fco.J.Ballesteros To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet/auth question In-Reply-To: <66615df7.0302130751.377adcb4@posting.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-wgelpvipqvxgtafzemovuaozgq" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:13:07 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-wgelpvipqvxgtafzemovuaozgq Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It looks fine. You have netkey binaries for linux windows and palm OS. They're nice to telnet from remote systems. Use google to locate them (I think they're at forsyth's site but I'm not sure). --upas-wgelpvipqvxgtafzemovuaozgq Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Thu Feb 13 17:06:29 MET 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6DB8319A71; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:06:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0286419980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:05:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18jLqD-0002nf-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:04:01 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Will Message-ID: <66615df7.0302130751.377adcb4@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] telnet/auth question Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:03:55 GMT In telneting (or con'ing) into a my plan-9 auth server from unix, I get the securenet challenge/response thing. This seems to match the securenet man page. I also get the challenge/response prompts when I attempt to telnet in from a plan-9 machine. Is this correct? Somewhat related: cpu and auth/login work fine and give the plan-9 authorization prompts as expected. Thanks to all, and to the person who asked why use plan-9: Don't ever stop learning new things. It keeps life much more interesting. Will --upas-wgelpvipqvxgtafzemovuaozgq-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 01:18:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 01:18:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17710 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 01:18:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17706 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 01:18:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 01:18:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E2DCE19A85; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:18:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.119.131.80]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B2C4C19A68 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:17:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (boyd@zode.strakt.com [62.119.131.76]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h1DGH4xw024233 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:17:04 +0100 Message-ID: <3E4BC4FF.1090603@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020623 Debian/1.0.0-0.woody.1 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bug in v4parseip? References: <7e53fecd6078858c09db7ffb35383c02@plan9.bell-labs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:17:03 +0100 David Presotto wrote: >that still doesn't give me a definition. I guess the implied >definition is do whatever BSD is doing at the moment? > But it's a hideously bad idea. Why go down that path at all? A dotted quad is a dotted quad and be done with it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 01:18:55 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 01:18:55 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17723 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 01:18:55 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17719 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 01:18:55 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 01:18:55 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AA55619A99; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:18:21 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7727119A25 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:17:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Feb 13 11:17:44 EST 2003 Received: from 18.24.6.245 ([18.24.6.245]) by plan9; Thu Feb 13 11:17:42 EST 2003 Message-ID: <330cf322da51654a900dba97e7d0f5eb@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet/auth question From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <65efadb3b2bfd974d49f10fb9d4e57d0@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:17:48 -0500 dave means /sys/src/cmd/unix/netkey.c, which i just created. http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~rsc/netkey.c has an exportable version by kenji arisawa (it links against bsd des routines), http://www.caldo.demon.co.uk/plan9/soft/netkey.html has some precompiled binaries, and http://www.cotswold.demon.co.uk/dist/netkey/ has a tweak of kenji's routines to use openssl. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 01:28:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 01:28:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17804 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 01:28:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17800 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 01:28:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 01:28:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C649D19A9B; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:28:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5189619A2D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:27:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.7) with ESMTP id 465988 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:27:05 -0600 Message-ID: <9aadcf5c61587fd7117a6e61b73f2ca7@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <14461cb50de52a55cf67cd23d550b629@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 08:26:33 -0800 > Why do YOU use Plan 9 and not Linux/FreeBSD? Despite all the cool features I like to show off when I give a demo, the thing that most consistently drops jaws is the speed of compilation. Two seconds elapsed time to build the window system, for example. If you write software for a living, that sort of speed can be a huge advantage. But where does the speed come from? Mostly from the way the software is written, from the approach the system takes. It's not something you can easily copy or port to another environment. I can (and often do) run many compilations working on some Plan 9 software during the dead time waiting for a Linux program to build. I remember comparing VNC for someone recently. It took many minutes to build the Linux vnc package from the web. I got bored waiting, mentioned it to a colleague, he said so what? I went to the Plan 9 vnc directory, built the client and server in a few seconds, had a nice conversation on this point, and went back to waiting for the Linux vnc to build. And that example we're talking about two versions *of the same application*. And in that case, Plan 9 was at a huge disadvantage because it was running on the same Linux machine under vmware. Modern machines have two and three gigahertz processors. They should be able to build software hundreds of times faster than a decade ago. Why don't they? Ah, but with Plan 9, they do. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 01:30:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 01:30:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17837 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 01:30:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17833 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 01:30:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 01:30:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 37CA019A25; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:30:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 02DF419A94 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:29:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1DGT3mt022676 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:29:04 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h1DGT3Sp022675 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:29:03 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bug in v4parseip? Message-ID: <20030213182902.D9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030213175543.B9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <7e53fecd6078858c09db7ffb35383c02@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <7e53fecd6078858c09db7ffb35383c02@plan9.bell-labs.com>; from David Presotto on Thu, Feb 13, 2003 at 11:12:25AM -0500 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:29:02 +0200 On Thu, Feb 13, 2003 at 11:12:25AM -0500, David Presotto wrote: > > that still doesn't give me a definition. I guess the implied > definition is do whatever BSD is doing at the moment? I was just presenting the devil's advocate position. The present code (presumably) matches the documented BSD behaviour and that ought to suffice. My guess is that only zero-insertion and elimination is permissible, going on the limited documentation. One could do worse than track BSD's behaviour, it is unlikely to fly in the face of logic. NetBSD explicitly attempts to satisfy the Posix standards unless there is good reason to avoid it. It is not very different from the Plan 9 philosophy, where Posix compatibility is just less desirable a target. Also, NetBSD retains very strong backwards compatibility, sometimes at great cost (and sometimes through lack of choice :-) so they won't have a flavour-of-the-day approach to this type of issue. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 01:32:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 01:32:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17866 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 01:32:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17862 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 01:32:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 01:32:40 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0CD6919A9F; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:32:28 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailhost.det2.ameritech.net (mailhost1-sfldmi.sfldmi.ameritech.net [206.141.193.105]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CDF9F19A92 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:31:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ameritech.net ([67.38.15.139]) by mailhost.det2.ameritech.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with ESMTP id <20030213163149.UOOD8853.mailhost.det2.ameritech.net@ameritech.net> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:31:49 -0500 Message-ID: <3E4BC84E.8020800@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... References: <9aadcf5c61587fd7117a6e61b73f2ca7@mightycheese.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:31:10 -0500 > > >Modern machines have two and three gigahertz processors. They >should be able to build software hundreds of times faster than a >decade ago. Why don't they? Ah, but with Plan 9, they do. > Now that is the kind of thing that makes me smile. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 01:52:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 01:52:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18076 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 01:52:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18072 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 01:52:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 01:52:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 46EE419A04; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:52:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lcd.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1D24719A04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:51:51 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 34144 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 17:02:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO kike) (192.168.1.101) by 192.168.1.102 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 17:02:39 -0000 Message-ID: <01ca01c2d380$30fd0c80$6501a8c0@kike> From: "matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:51:44 -0000 My favourite features of the moment in Plan 9 are the plumber and acme In a few regular expressions I'd built a class browser for PHP [PHP classes use the -> notation] If I plumb [right click] something like $foo->bar($p1, $p2, $p3); I've got a plumbing rule that executes "grep '^( |\t)?function( |\t)+bar( |\t)?\( " on my PHP code [on a seperate FreeBSD machine no less !] and lists the matching files /n/freebsd/phplib/baz.inc:24 function bar($param1, $param2, $param3) { /n/freebsd/phplib/baz_new.inc:28 function bar ($param1, $param2, $param3) { such that clicking on one of the matches will open the source code file for that definition. And all that took me about 15 minutes to get working [+ the time it took me to learn plumbing rules of course - about an hour of fiddling] And to think that the code I wrote to accomplish this is so trivial it wasn't even worth sharing it with the world! Matt From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 01:53:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 01:53:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18085 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 01:53:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18081 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 01:53:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 01:53:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2323119A65; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:53:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1933A19A65 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:52:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14653 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:52:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1DGqNM22144 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:52:23 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302131652.h1DGqNM22144@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Dan Cross Subject: [9fans] Speaking of routing.... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:52:23 -0500 I have a question. I have have a CPU server with two interfaces, one mounted on /net, the other on /net.alt. They're connected to two networks; on internal, and the other the Internet. I want users who login to the CPU server to be able to connect to either network seamlessly; without jumping through hoops. Is that possible? (I know this question is sort of vague, and I apologize for that, but I'm pressed for time at the moment). That is, when they connect somewhere, they shouldn't have to say, ``telnet /net.alt/tcp!foobar''; ``telnet tcp!foobar'' should work for hosts internal and external. Is that possible? I'm afraid I haven't looked at the code, as the machine is currently powered down, and my laptop's battery is dead, and the charger is at home. :-( - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 02:04:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 02:04:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18156 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 02:04:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18152 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 02:04:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 02:04:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 67FA219A66; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:04:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7240F19A28 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:03:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h1DH3Aqv019902 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:03:10 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Speaking of routing.... From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: <200302131652.h1DGqNM22144@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:13:33 -0800 > That is, when they connect somewhere, they shouldn't have to say, > ``telnet /net.alt/tcp!foobar''; ``telnet tcp!foobar'' should work > for hosts internal and external. Is that possible? Wouldn't selectively binding /net.alt before /net do it? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 02:04:51 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 02:04:51 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18163 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 02:04:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18159 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 02:04:51 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 02:04:51 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E860E19A7A; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:04:22 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1B92519A66 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:03:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1DH3OLp050913 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:03:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca) Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with ESMTP id h1DH3NPd050909 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:03:24 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski X-X-Sender: mirtchov@ To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Speaking of routing.... In-Reply-To: <200302131652.h1DGqNM22144@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: <20030213095533.L50666@> References: <200302131652.h1DGqNM22144@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:03:23 -0700 (MST) there is a similar setup to yours at acl.lanl: (web page doesn't seem to be working currently, so here's google's cache) http://216.239.57.100/search?q=cache:ddDZwvPb2uUC:www.acl.lanl.gov/plan9/newnetwork/+&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 normally to access external machine i'd open a rio window and bind /net.alt to /net in it, then leave it alone and use it when the need arises -- just another beautiful example of private namespaces... here are some samples taken from the web site above: ------- This is the only machine that lives on the external network. The secondary network interface is hooked to the external network the primary interface is connected to the unrouted network. However all hosts on the internal network can access the external network by using the command: import plan9 /net.alt and then using addresses like: ping /net.alt/icmp!acl.lanl.gov ssh /net.alt/tcp!acl.lanl.gov Actually if you are willing to wait 30 seconds or so for the timeout you don't need to use the /net.alt/ prefix. Or if you only want to use the external interface in a given namespace you can import the external interface on top of the internal interface, and the use "normal" addresses: import plan9 /net.alt import plan9 /net.alt /net orbind /net.alt /net Which is the method we commonly use. andrey On Thu, 13 Feb 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > I have a question. I have have a CPU server with two interfaces, one > mounted on /net, the other on /net.alt. They're connected to two > networks; on internal, and the other the Internet. I want users who > login to the CPU server to be able to connect to either network > seamlessly; without jumping through hoops. Is that possible? (I know > this question is sort of vague, and I apologize for that, but I'm > pressed for time at the moment). > > That is, when they connect somewhere, they shouldn't have to say, > ``telnet /net.alt/tcp!foobar''; ``telnet tcp!foobar'' should work > for hosts internal and external. Is that possible? I'm afraid I > haven't looked at the code, as the machine is currently powered down, > and my laptop's battery is dead, and the charger is at home. :-( > > - Dan C. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 02:17:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 02:17:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18309 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 02:17:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18305 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 02:17:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 02:17:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0E18119A28; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:17:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from edoras.nas.com (edoras.nas.com [206.63.100.8]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9294419A28 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:16:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from nas.com (unknown [164.116.190.46]) by edoras.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DA39EB07F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:16:07 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3E4BDDC9.6030703@nas.com> From: Jack Johnson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.2a) Gecko/20020910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, es MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... References: <6ef76860.0302121402.3a63f201@posting.google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:02:49 -0800 Jeffrey Haun wrote: > Why do YOU use Plan 9 and not Linux/FreeBSD? I think like several people here, I use both, but as a self-professed weenie I can tell you I was drawn to Plan 9 by a handful of things it does that Linux/*BSD can't (or won't) do, namely private namespaces (though this is starting to change), and most recently venti/fossil. Sure, there's no Mozilla, no OpenOffice, Samba, WebDAV, FireWire, WINE, etc., but there's a surprising amount of quality stuff there if you dig. Some of it requires a mental shift if you're coming from another environment. It may not be user friendly stuff, but it's insanely useful stuff, so it becomes a very introspective process, and you have to ask yourself, "Why *am* I here?" Plan 9 kind of expects you to do some actual work. I was joking with a friend the other day about Plan 9, about how the continual 9fans thread is, "Why can't I _____ in Plan 9?" and someone from the Labs says, "Oh, we do that with awk here." I've found the frustrating parts tend to be unrelated to Plan 9 but from the bad habits picked up through the years adapting to other systems, and from my own inabilities and unfamiliarity. But, the learning curve is hardly steep, 9fans is always helpful, and it's always refreshing to learn and do something new. Plus, I'm a weenie. As much as I goof off at home with Plan 9, it's so much worse under an OS where you can waste an hour Saturday morning tweaking a window manager theme and trying out Yet Another Browser. I'd rather spend my time learning a little something new. ------ I recently read an article where someone was talking about his latest OS-of-the-week (which I can relate to, because I'm kind of an OS whore), and the author said something that struck a chord with me. He said at the end of the day, no matter what whiz-bang technology comes across his desk, UNIX does the heavy lifting. There are tools you use to accomplish your job. Some of those tools you find, buy or build, and some of them are provided for you. Some of them are required by your job, and some no one really notices or cares how it gets done as long as it's done and done well. People talk about Linux making inroads in businesses and most people don't know, because it's all infrastructure, and the point is that end users shouldn't have to know, care or worry about infrastructure. I think Plan 9 and its concepts are an amazing foundation, and I envy the people who are able to use it as the foundation for their infrastructure. I also think that though Plan 9 is about ideas and not markets, it's also in a position to be that kind of shadow player in organizations as an invisible, reliable piece of the infrastructure. -J From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 02:56:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 02:56:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18640 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 02:56:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18636 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 02:56:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 02:56:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D0A9F199EE; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:56:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 54093199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:55:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18jNSc-0005IC-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:47:46 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Jeff Sickel Message-ID: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK References: Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 software for unix Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:47:16 GMT Great to have mk in a cleanly packaged form, not so great to have it as GPL. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 02:58:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 02:58:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18649 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 02:58:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18645 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 02:58:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 02:58:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 859EF19A82; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:58:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 05D2519A73 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:57:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Feb 13 12:57:14 EST 2003 Received: from 18.24.6.245 ([18.24.6.245]) by plan9; Thu Feb 13 12:57:11 EST 2003 Message-ID: <1fc3d725b16bbb76552f38355f26459d@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 software for unix From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:57:09 -0500 > Great to have mk in a cleanly packaged form, not so great to have it as GPL. let's not start this war. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 03:07:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 03:07:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18753 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 03:07:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18749 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 03:07:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 03:07:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2F26519A75; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:07:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C993519A2D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:06:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18jNYf-0005OF-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:54:01 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: maynard Message-ID: <39272337.0302130947.5d851ecd@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <6ef76860.0302121402.3a63f201@posting.google.com>, <3E4B6D96.9010203@place.org> Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:52:03 GMT stevemw@place.org (Stephen Wynne) wrote in message news:<3E4B6D96.9010203@place.org>... > Jeffrey Haun wrote: > > > Why does the bunny not die??? > > I think there are two reasons. First, the creators of > UNIX had a hand in creating Plan 9. It's an attempt to > take the lessons of distributing UNIX and implement them; > it's also a basis for exploring advanced computing > infrastructure concepts such as the Venti file folding > architecture. Second, it appeals to those of us who > think that simplicity is the only thing that scales > in computing (even if we're not all equally adept at > making simple solutions). I want to learn from the > creators and contributors, for example. > > In short, Plan 9 is a fresh start at computing, > unconstrained by previous approaches established > with DOS, Windows, UNIX, and other environments. > It doesn't claim to be the only alternative, it's > one that interests us. > > Immediately, Plan 9 has great potential as an embedded > and distributed appliance platform. Industrial systems > need to be as small and clear as possible. Plan 9 offers > that in many ways. > > > Why do YOU use Plan 9 and not Linux/FreeBSD? > > I'll let someone who usually uses Plan 9 on the desktop > answer that question. > > Steve During all my trolling thru P9 posts this kinda question alway boggles my mind (admit not too hard to do)more than any other; I have for many years (since the first comm dist circa '95) have been utterly amazed by the concepts proposed and implemented in P9. In fact I can't understand how any programmer/systems person/developer/../.. doesn't see the possibilities this OS (et al) offer. It does present some developmental hardships, but these IMO are challenges that make the entire prospect appealing (if not somewhat frustrating). I have some time on my hands ATM to relearn this elegant os and am endeavoring (albeit perhaps overly ambitious) to create embedded file servers that serv from remote devices. I think with the current state of the art of embedded processors containing ethernet adapters and tcp/ip stacks as part of their Clibs...well my mind races with possibilities. I'll give a real example; home security. Suppose you had your house equiped with internal network (like phone plugs scattered in every room 10bT would do) and many modules in different rooms equiped with embedded controllers serving a namespace relative to their respective functions (i.e. camera serves /cam/picture, etc - motion sensors service /motion/activity you get the idea even some more exotic functions like /frid/door/position /thermostat/temp :) all these sensors could be mounted into a namespace, exported and mounted by security company that monitors your house over the internet and bang! instant realtime infor on your home. For this fantasy, IMHO there is only one practical OS suited to this funtionality (ok im a n00b and dont know everything) If you can't glean an understanding for the power the plan9 paradigm presents from this example, then I just wasted my time :) I'm not sure I can realize my dream to develope such a system since I'm a poor man and development controllers can be expensive, but I am at least able to see that plan9 CURRENTLY offers all that is required to develop (minus the remote hardware dependencies) this system now! Caveat: until there is a GUI development package for 9p I will prolly use Inferno/Limbo for the desktop applications :) Maynard From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 03:13:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 03:13:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18811 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 03:13:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18807 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 03:13:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 03:13:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 59F1719A87; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:13:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1CB5519A2D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:12:12 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 22242 invoked by uid 991); 13 Feb 2003 18:12:11 -0000 Message-ID: <20030213181211.22241.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... In-Reply-To: Message from maynard of "Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:52:03 GMT." <39272337.0302130947.5d851ecd@posting.google.com> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:12:11 -0500 | Caveat: until there is a GUI development package for 9p I will prolly | use Inferno/Limbo for the desktop applications :) If that's what you want, Tk could probably be ported/reimplemented for Plan 9. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 03:38:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 03:38:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19048 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 03:38:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19044 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 03:38:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 03:38:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DDF0519992; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:38:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D2E5199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:37:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: X-Plan9-Fortune: After hydrogen, the most common thing in the universe is stupidity. -Harlan Ellison From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 software for unix In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:37:46 -0500 thanks to everyone who sent reports about building on other systems. i've incorporated the various fixes and also put utf support back in. there are new packages on the web page. http://pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~rsc/software From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 03:44:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 03:44:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19102 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 03:44:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19098 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 03:44:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 03:44:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7416B19A2A; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:44:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from highwire.stanford.edu (highwire.Stanford.EDU [171.66.121.166]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 10921199A3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:43:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from highwire.stanford.edu (highwire.stanford.edu [171.66.121.166]) by highwire.stanford.edu (8.11.6/HIGHWIRE2.0) with ESMTP id h1DIhHL04178 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:43:17 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200302131843.h1DIhHL04178@highwire.stanford.edu> X-url: http://highwire.stanford.edu/~jimr/ X-face: "!ZH^<"U,NeU:732A To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Dcc: Subject: [9fans] current environment? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: jim.robinson@stanford.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:43:17 -0800 Anyone here in an environment where they use Plan 9 tools to write code for other systems? I'm in a job where I write lots of java, sql, and perl for running on various solaris machines. I use the X11 port of sam, and used to use wily (a partial clone of acme) to write the code on the machines the stuff needs to compile on. I've been thinking of setting up a system where I run Plan 9 inside vmware, using local disk to edit the code. Then rsync the data into place as needed. But that seems kind of kludgey. Anyone in a similar position w/re to writing code which won't be running on a Plan 9 box? What do you do? - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - James A. Robinson jim.robinson@stanford.edu Stanford University HighWire Press http://highwire.stanford.edu/ 650-723-7294 (W) 650-725-9335 (F) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 03:48:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 03:48:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19145 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 03:48:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19141 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 03:48:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 03:48:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2FDD319A94; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:48:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6C1D519A81 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:47:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from mero.morphisms.net (mero.morphisms.net [66.93.84.246]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 377DD381 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:47:34 -0500 (EST) Received: by mero.morphisms.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id F188B275; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:47:33 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:47:33 -0500 From: William Josephson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] current environment? Message-ID: <20030213184733.GB27244@mero.morphisms.net> References: <200302131843.h1DIhHL04178@highwire.stanford.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200302131843.h1DIhHL04178@highwire.stanford.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-No-archive: yes Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: On Thu, Feb 13, 2003 at 10:43:17AM -0800, James A. Robinson wrote: > Anyone here in an environment where they use Plan 9 tools to write code > for other systems? I'm in a job where I write lots of java, sql, and > place as needed. But that seems kind of kludgey. Anyone in a similar > position w/re to writing code which won't be running on a Plan 9 box? > What do you do? In the past I have used u9fs to copy code over from a Plan 9 box where I ran acme. More recently, I have been using Inferno with the pass-through filesystem. I am way too many levels down on the stack to get things set up the way I want them. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 03:49:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 03:49:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19154 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 03:49:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19150 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 03:49:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 03:49:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4760A19A9E; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:49:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3CF0E19A63 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:48:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Feb 13 13:48:10 EST 2003 Received: from 18.24.6.245 ([18.24.6.245]) by plan9; Thu Feb 13 13:48:08 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] current environment? From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <200302131843.h1DIhHL04178@highwire.stanford.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:48:08 -0500 > I've been thinking of setting up a system where I run Plan 9 inside > vmware, using local disk to edit the code. Then rsync the data into > place as needed. But that seems kind of kludgey. Anyone in a similar > position w/re to writing code which won't be running on a Plan 9 box? > What do you do? All the time. I use Plan 9 inside VMware and u9fs via srvssh. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 04:06:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 04:06:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19312 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 04:06:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19308 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 04:06:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 04:06:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7401319981; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 14:06:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from edoras.nas.com (edoras.nas.com [206.63.100.8]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C9B4199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 14:05:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from nas.com (unknown [164.116.190.46]) by edoras.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0D8DEB4C6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:05:31 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3E4BF951.4040101@nas.com> From: Jack Johnson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.2a) Gecko/20020910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, es MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... References: <20030213181211.22241.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:00:17 -0800 Scott Schwartz wrote: > | Caveat: until there is a GUI development package for 9p I will prolly > | use Inferno/Limbo for the desktop applications :) > > If that's what you want, Tk could probably be ported/reimplemented for > Plan 9. I've been meaning to take a another look at the widget set used for i (is that the right name? the Web browser in development). Is that brought in from elsewhere, or is that already buried somewhere in Plan 9/rio/? I kinda like it, and it seems like it would be easy to reuse (because it's already done). -Jack From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 04:27:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 04:27:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19508 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 04:27:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19504 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 04:27:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 04:27:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E0A3E19A63; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 14:27:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lcd.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 791CE199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 14:26:20 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 34639 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 19:37:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO kike) (192.168.1.101) by 192.168.1.102 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 19:37:16 -0000 Message-ID: <007501c2d395$c865ae50$6501a8c0@kike> From: "matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200302131843.h1DIhHL04178@highwire.stanford.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] current environment? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:26:18 -0000 > Anyone in a similar > position w/re to writing code which won't be running on a Plan 9 box? > What do you do? although I ended up not using it [I use u9fs & FreeBSD] maybe cvs will meet your needs ftpfs is also a possibility, I used to use that before I got u9fs working. It was pretty slow but that was over the internet not the LAN, grepping a directory would sometimes prove painful as ALL the files would be downloaded first, nasty if they are a big, ymmv There's a document here : http://216.239.53.100/search?q=cache:dnlb9WkNt10C:www.acl.lanl.gov/plan9/new network/fbsd.html+plan9+nfs&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 where they mentioned using a FreeBSD box and u9fs as a gateway to the NFS shares on the rest of the network [the original http://www.acl.lanl.gov/plan9/newnetwork/fbsd.html is offline so maybe it doesn't work so good ;) ] From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 05:01:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 05:01:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19771 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 05:01:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19767 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 05:01:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 05:01:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E3F28199EC; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:01:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lcd.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8743619A06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:00:51 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 34772 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 20:11:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO kike) (192.168.1.101) by 192.168.1.102 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 20:11:48 -0000 Message-ID: <009101c2d39a$9ae246a0$6501a8c0@kike> From: "matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [9fans] iSCSI Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 20:00:49 -0000 I expect that iSCSI has already hit your radar but here's the latest iSCSI Gets Go-Ahead http://www.byteandswitch.com/document.asp?doc_id=28277 iSCSI Specification Approved Posted by michael on 13/02/03 19:08 from the i-everything dept. nasorsan writes "The iSCSI protocol is a means to transport SCSI commands and data using TCP/IP packets. This ratification by the IETF is "the last major hurdle for iSCSI to become widely supported. . . 'Now that it's done, Microsoft Corp. and Novell Inc. will release drivers, and the games will begin,' says Steve Duplessie, senior analyst at Enterprise Storage Group Inc. 'Anyone who doesn't think this is the beginning of a huge market is insane.'" he added." http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/02/13/1713245 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 05:09:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 05:09:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19820 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 05:09:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19816 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 05:09:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 05:09:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3EC8319A70; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:09:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 60E5119A26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:08:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h1DK8HRV028289 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:08:17 -0700 Received: (qmail 9770 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 13:08:17 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 13:08:17 -0700 Received: (qmail 26811 invoked by uid 3499); 13 Feb 2003 13:08:16 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 13:08:16 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] iSCSI In-Reply-To: <009101c2d39a$9ae246a0$6501a8c0@kike> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:08:16 -0700 (MST) On Thu, 13 Feb 2003, matt wrote: > I expect that iSCSI has already hit your radar but here's the latest > > iSCSI Gets Go-Ahead Am I the only person in the world who can't figure out why anyone wants iSCSI? I just can't get it to make sense. My brain just won't go near it. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 05:14:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 05:14:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19849 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 05:14:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19845 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 05:14:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 05:14:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E799519A90; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:14:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8799119A73 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:13:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] iSCSI In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-fzakhswxnmkicaegysctovqelf" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:13:08 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-fzakhswxnmkicaegysctovqelf Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Don't deflate my sails! I was about to suggest eSCSI where each SCSI command is carried as a separate MIME attachment. --upas-fzakhswxnmkicaegysctovqelf Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Feb 13 15:09:27 EST 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Feb 13 15:09:24 EST 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B5BAC19A68; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:09:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 60E5119A26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:08:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h1DK8HRV028289 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:08:17 -0700 Received: (qmail 9770 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2003 13:08:17 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 13:08:17 -0700 Received: (qmail 26811 invoked by uid 3499); 13 Feb 2003 13:08:16 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 13 Feb 2003 13:08:16 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] iSCSI In-Reply-To: <009101c2d39a$9ae246a0$6501a8c0@kike> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:08:16 -0700 (MST) On Thu, 13 Feb 2003, matt wrote: > I expect that iSCSI has already hit your radar but here's the latest > > iSCSI Gets Go-Ahead Am I the only person in the world who can't figure out why anyone wants iSCSI? I just can't get it to make sense. My brain just won't go near it. ron --upas-fzakhswxnmkicaegysctovqelf-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 05:29:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 05:29:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19941 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 05:29:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19937 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 05:29:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 05:29:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2612A19A98; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:29:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2043219A92 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:28:31 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 23367 invoked by uid 991); 13 Feb 2003 20:28:30 -0000 Message-ID: <20030213202830.23366.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] iSCSI In-Reply-To: Message from "Ronald G. Minnich" of "Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:08:16 MST." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:28:30 -0500 | Am I the only person in the world who can't figure out why anyone wants | iSCSI? I just can't get it to make sense. My brain just won't go near it. You are caught in a time warp, back to before network filesystems were invented. Now, when you have a big SCSI disk and 100 PeeCees. You divide the disk into 100 partitions and give one to each PeeCee. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 05:40:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 05:40:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20043 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 05:40:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20039 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 05:40:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 05:40:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 69F3819A67; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:40:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [64.71.129.86]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CAD1F19A2D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:39:17 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 894BE66B24; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:36:10 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] iSCSI Message-ID: <20030213203610.GQ54927@cassie.foobarbaz.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:36:10 -0800 Better yet, NFS over SMTP. On Thu, Feb 13, 2003 at 03:13:08PM -0500, David Presotto wrote: > Don't deflate my sails! I was about to suggest eSCSI where each SCSI command is > carried as a separate MIME attachment. > From: "Ronald G. Minnich" > To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:08:16 -0700 (MST) > Subject: Re: [9fans] iSCSI > > On Thu, 13 Feb 2003, matt wrote: > > > I expect that iSCSI has already hit your radar but here's the latest > > > > iSCSI Gets Go-Ahead > > Am I the only person in the world who can't figure out why anyone wants > iSCSI? I just can't get it to make sense. My brain just won't go near it. > > ron -- Christopher Nielsen - Metal-wielding pyro techie "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 06:03:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 06:03:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20284 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 06:03:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20280 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 06:03:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 06:03:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7EA3919A97; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:03:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A29B319A1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:02:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from patton.home (12-226-228-104.client.attbi.com[12.226.228.104]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51) with SMTP id <20030213210201051007cfbve>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 21:02:01 +0000 Message-ID: <913139431a4f81a8ec8306af32bab99f@cs.cmu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] current environment? From: David Swasey In-Reply-To: <200302131843.h1DIhHL04178@highwire.stanford.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:06:39 -0500 I have a linux box on my LAN that holds code for other systems. I work in acme, using u9fs+p9any for editing, ssh+make for batch compiles, and win+ssh for interactive work. (The SML/NJ compilation manager recompiles faster when used interactively.) A nightly cron job does replica/scan && replica/pull to copy changes from my linux box to my file server so the dump gets a copy of my source. This is very handy. I sometimes have to work with remote machines over a slow link. I use unison to propagate changes between my linux box and these machines and VNC+whatever for editing -dave > Anyone in a similar > position w/re to writing code which won't be running on a Plan 9 box? > What do you do? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 06:53:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 06:53:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20697 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 06:53:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20693 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 06:53:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 06:53:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C9F7019A89; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:53:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 886A5199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:52:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23053 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:52:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1DLqOM23273 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:52:24 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302132152.h1DLqOM23273@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] iSCSI In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 13 Feb 2003 20:00:49 GMT." <009101c2d39a$9ae246a0$6501a8c0@kike> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:52:24 -0500 Holy Shit! I think I'm having a fucking heart attack! Someone call the paramedics! iSCSI is a colosally bad idea. Better yet, it's probably a joke. I've been waiting for someone to create the standards joke movement, but it didn't seem to have taken root, until now. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 07:12:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 07:12:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20967 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 07:12:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20963 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 07:12:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 07:12:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ED0EB19A1C; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:12:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3873B19A1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:11:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] iSCSI From: David Gordon Hogan In-Reply-To: <200302132152.h1DLqOM23273@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:11:27 -0500 > iSCSI is a colosally bad idea. Better yet, it's probably a joke. I've > been waiting for someone to create the standards joke movement, but it > didn't seem to have taken root, until now. An important clue is that "iSCSI" is a palindrome. Perhaps ATA is a joke standard too? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 07:15:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 07:15:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20989 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 07:15:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20985 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 07:15:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 07:15:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8D80419A96; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:15:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AEE6119A2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:14:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:14:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1DMEPM23602 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:14:25 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302132214.h1DMEPM23602@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] iSCSI In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:11:27 EST." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:14:25 -0500 > An important clue is that "iSCSI" is a palindrome. Perhaps ATA is a > joke standard too? I thought that was a given. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 07:17:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 07:17:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21011 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 07:17:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21007 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 07:17:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 07:17:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 30D3019A92; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:17:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B171F19A9C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:16:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h1DMFrt11409 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:15:53 -0500 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] iSCSI In-Reply-To: <200302132152.h1DLqOM23273@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:15:53 -0500 (EST) > Holy Shit! I think I'm having a fucking heart attack! Someone call > the paramedics! > Paramedics, I'm afraid, can do little for tourette's syndrome. > iSCSI is a colosally bad idea. Better yet, it's probably a joke. I've ... what if I've just been dying to get my hands on ip routable disk blocks? Why just imagine the breaches, err, uses that will arise from such functionality. Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 07:17:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 07:17:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21019 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 07:17:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21015 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 07:17:47 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 07:17:47 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1D6FE19AA1; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:17:20 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D89AC199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:16:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29495 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:16:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1DMGrM23633 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:16:53 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302132216.h1DMGrM23633@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Speaking of routing.... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:03:23 MST." <20030213095533.L50666@ > From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:16:53 -0500 Thanks, Skip and Andrey, Unfortunately, I was hoping to avoid any mucking with namespaces, particularly for automated things (like outgoing mail). Alas, it seems impossible. Maybe I should go back to running both interfaces on the same IP stack. Hmm.... - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 07:25:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 07:25:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21089 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 07:25:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21085 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 07:25:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 07:25:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 806B119AA3; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:25:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1C332199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:24:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1DMO8Lp053475 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:24:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca) Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with ESMTP id h1DMO8UC053472 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:24:08 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Speaking of routing.... In-Reply-To: <200302132216.h1DMGrM23633@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: <20030213152152.U50928@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> References: <200302132216.h1DMGrM23633@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:24:08 -0700 (MST) I used a special acme just for reading mail (I had enough screen to do so) and ran a script to bind the proper namespace before reading the mail.dump file... Wasn't it the case that certain programs would look for a stack in /net.alt if the /net one timeouted? Can't remember :( andrey On Thu, 13 Feb 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > Thanks, Skip and Andrey, > Unfortunately, I was hoping to avoid any mucking with namespaces, > particularly for automated things (like outgoing mail). Alas, it > seems impossible. Maybe I should go back to running both interfaces > on the same IP stack. Hmm.... > > - Dan C. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 07:28:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 07:28:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21141 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 07:28:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21137 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 07:28:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 07:28:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 447D819AA4; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:28:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A057A199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:27:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <43f3eff7a65deecc69011f7b01d398e4@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Speaking of routing.... From: David Gordon Hogan In-Reply-To: <20030213152152.U50928@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:27:52 -0500 > Wasn't it the case that certain programs would look for a stack in /net.alt > if the /net one timeouted? Can't remember :( This behaviour is built into dial(). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 08:13:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 08:13:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21627 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 08:13:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21623 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 08:13:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 08:13:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9FE4B19A9D; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:13:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3AD17199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:13:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07436 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:13:00 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) id h1DNCxR23860; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:12:59 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302132312.h1DNCxR23860@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] iSCSI Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: References: <200302132152.h1DLqOM23273@augusta.math.psu.edu> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:12:59 -0500 (EST) In article you write: >> Holy Shit! I think I'm having a fucking heart attack! Someone call >> the paramedics! > >Paramedics, I'm afraid, can do little for tourette's syndrome. More like Parkinson's. Like Muhammad Ali, brought on by too many blows to the head from this stupid industry. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 08:15:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 08:15:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21654 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 08:15:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21650 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 08:15:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 08:15:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CF74819AAA; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:15:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E163F19AA8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:14:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07705 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:14:36 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) id h1DNEar23871; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:14:36 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302132314.h1DNEar23871@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Speaking of routing.... Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <43f3eff7a65deecc69011f7b01d398e4@plan9.bell-labs.com> References: <20030213152152.U50928@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:14:36 -0500 (EST) In article <43f3eff7a65deecc69011f7b01d398e4@plan9.bell-labs.com> you write: >> Wasn't it the case that certain programs would look for a stack in /net.alt >> if the /net one timeouted? Can't remember :( > >This behaviour is built into dial(). I guess it's the 30-second timeout-tax I'm bummed out about. I guess I don't see why, if I don't have a default route on the IP stack, it would take 30 seconds to realize that sending a packet out of that stack wasn't going to work. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 08:24:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 08:24:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21757 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 08:24:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21753 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 08:24:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 08:24:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2A7C419AAB; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:24:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailhost.det3.ameritech.net (mailhost2-sfldmi.sfldmi.ameritech.net [206.141.193.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E91E919A26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:23:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from ameritech.net ([67.38.15.139]) by mailhost.det3.ameritech.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with ESMTP id <20030213232343.SFVB176.mailhost.det3.ameritech.net@ameritech.net> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:23:43 -0500 Message-ID: <3E4C28D8.3070506@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Speaking of routing.... References: <20030213152152.U50928@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> <200302132314.h1DNEar23871@augusta.math.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:23:04 -0500 > > >I guess it's the 30-second timeout-tax I'm bummed out about. I guess >I don't see why, if I don't have a default route on the IP stack, it >would take 30 seconds to realize that sending a packet out of that stack >wasn't going to work. > It'd be neat if there was a way to alter the dial() performance per-user. Maybe via a namespace config, or, environment variables (within some kind of restraint). Don From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 08:25:16 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 08:25:16 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21782 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 08:25:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21778 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 08:25:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 08:25:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9B3CD19AAF; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:25:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 21C0719AAD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:24:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2dfe988b9b04784bc0e9914296e4e74d@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Speaking of routing.... From: David Gordon Hogan In-Reply-To: <200302132314.h1DNEar23871@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:24:10 -0500 > I guess it's the 30-second timeout-tax I'm bummed out about. I guess > I don't see why, if I don't have a default route on the IP stack, it > would take 30 seconds to realize that sending a packet out of that stack > wasn't going to work. Generally how it should work is that name resolution fails on /net/cs, and dial moves on to /net.alt without having to time out. This depends on you having ndb/cs set up right (one for each interface with its own ndb file) and also ndb/dns for DNS. Of course, if you're using numeric IP addresses you'll get the timeout (unless you give /net.alt explicitly). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 08:47:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 08:47:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22076 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 08:47:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22072 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 08:47:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 08:47:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7997319AA7; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:47:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 95ED519AA7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:46:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12438 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:46:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1DNkoM24181 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:46:50 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302132346.h1DNkoM24181@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Speaking of routing.... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:24:10 EST." <2dfe988b9b04784bc0e9914296e4e74d@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:46:50 -0500 > > I guess it's the 30-second timeout-tax I'm bummed out about. I guess > > I don't see why, if I don't have a default route on the IP stack, it > > would take 30 seconds to realize that sending a packet out of that stack > > wasn't going to work. > > Generally how it should work is that name resolution fails on > /net/cs, and dial moves on to /net.alt without having to time > out. This depends on you having ndb/cs set up right (one > for each interface with its own ndb file) and also ndb/dns for > DNS. Of course, if you're using numeric IP addresses you'll > get the timeout (unless you give /net.alt explicitly). No, everything is using hostnames; perhaps it'll work. I really need to power everything up (the whole shebang is currently under my girlfriend's bed in her apartment, and annoys her when she tries to sleep; hence frequent power-downs) and test it for real, instead of stabbing in the dark. I would imagine that the IP stack would be smart enough, if it got a packet destined for the outside network (for which it would have no routes on the internal network) to say immediately, ``I don't know what to do with this!'' and return an error, prompting dial() to proceed to /net.alt without a perceptable delay. Am I wrong? It also occurs to me that for smtp, I can do bind's in upas's scripts that go immediately to /net.alt, since no SMTP traffic will ever be sent on the internal network. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 09:12:54 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 09:12:54 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22571 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 09:12:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22563 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 09:12:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 09:12:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A8D7B19AB3; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:12:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9277319A68 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:11:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: X-Plan9-Fortune: You might as well go fishing in the trees. From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Speaking of routing.... In-Reply-To: <200302132314.h1DNEar23871@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:11:19 -0500 dialing /net and then /net.alt is a clumsy hack. if you want the appearance of one ip stack with multiple interfaces then why not do that? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 09:18:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 09:18:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22810 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 09:18:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22806 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 09:18:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 09:18:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2196219AB6; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:18:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D034419AAD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:17:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16925 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:17:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1E0H4M24547 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:17:04 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302140017.h1E0H4M24547@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Speaking of routing.... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:11:19 EST." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:17:04 -0500 > dialing /net and then /net.alt is a clumsy hack. > if you want the appearance of one ip stack with > multiple interfaces then why not do that? Because you guys never commited my change to tftpd to keep it from listening to the world. Yeah, I could mitigate the damage that could do by giving it a home directory with -h, but that's still not something I really feel comfortable doing. Then there's the issue of dhcpd listening to the outside as well. That's not a big deal since it won't answer for hosts it doesn't know about (unless you tell it to), but again, it's not something I feel entirely comfortable with. At least with seperate IP stacks, I can be *real* selective about what listens where. Also, I can run an outside DNS server and an inside DNS server, using seperate data files. The outside can't see anything about my internal network, which I like. Call me paranoid. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 09:23:16 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 09:23:16 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22949 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 09:22:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22931 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 09:22:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 09:22:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CD12919ABA; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:22:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0DE9219AB8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:21:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Speaking of routing.... In-Reply-To: <200302140017.h1E0H4M24547@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:21:27 -0500 Actually, dial does currently dial /net first and then /net.alt. It's a hack I've never been too proud of but I like it better than changing every single service to check where the call is coming from, mistakes there are too easy. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 09:30:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 09:30:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23196 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 09:30:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23192 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 09:30:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 09:30:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 57E3619AB8; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:30:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailhost.det2.ameritech.net (mailhost1-sfldmi.sfldmi.ameritech.net [206.141.193.105]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E671A19AB7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:29:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ameritech.net ([67.38.15.139]) by mailhost.det2.ameritech.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with ESMTP id <20030214002956.CJZD8853.mailhost.det2.ameritech.net@ameritech.net> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:29:56 -0500 Message-ID: <3E4C385D.9060805@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Speaking of routing.... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:29:17 -0500 Just random thought, has anyone played with the concept of a stackable bind? i.e. instead of /net.alt bound over /net so that accessing /net/cs always thunks /net.alt/cs, make it so thunk one in the target dir accesses the top of the LIFO (/net.alt/cs), then, the successive thunk would access the lower object: the true /net/cs. This would generate a multidimensional file system rather than solely a linear. There could be fs calls for resetting the LIFO, somehow.. Just a thought. Don From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 09:32:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 09:32:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23264 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 09:32:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23260 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 09:32:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 09:32:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB4EF19AC2; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:32:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 95CA119ABF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:31:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19408 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:31:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1E0VcM24680 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:31:38 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302140031.h1E0VcM24680@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Speaking of routing.... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:21:27 EST." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:31:38 -0500 > Actually, dial does currently dial /net first and then > /net.alt. It's a hack I've never been too proud of > but I like it better than changing every single service > to check where the call is coming from, mistakes there > are too easy. Okay, here's a question; I honestly don't understand something. Why do so many servers take a ``-x'' option to set the network mount point, instead of taking the (presumably more general) ``-A announce_string'' (or whatever you want to call it, if -A doesn't float your boat)? Can't the nework directory be adequately specified using the announce string syntax: /netdir/proto!addr!service or whatever? - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 09:33:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 09:33:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23291 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 09:33:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23287 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 09:33:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 09:33:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C525519AC4; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:33:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 212BE19ABB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:32:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <7e38167c7e140e20a8c47d19c9f0ffbb@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Speaking of routing.... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-yliiqvquutiwzrycasfjxqcyss" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:32:04 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-yliiqvquutiwzrycasfjxqcyss Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As for the delay, there wouldn't be one if your inside dns server came back quickly with a nonexistant domain response. However, if it comes back with an address that won't work in the inside or doesn't come back, you're stuck with the timeout. --upas-yliiqvquutiwzrycasfjxqcyss Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Feb 13 19:22:22 EST 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Feb 13 19:22:19 EST 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 92FB219AB9; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:22:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0DE9219AB8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:21:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Speaking of routing.... In-Reply-To: <200302140017.h1E0H4M24547@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:21:27 -0500 Actually, dial does currently dial /net first and then /net.alt. It's a hack I've never been too proud of but I like it better than changing every single service to check where the call is coming from, mistakes there are too easy. --upas-yliiqvquutiwzrycasfjxqcyss-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 09:35:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 09:35:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23364 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 09:35:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23360 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 09:35:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 09:35:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D77CD19ACA; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:35:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0C42F19AC6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:34:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <48853c934532586e889a8746b62854ad@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Speaking of routing.... In-Reply-To: <200302140031.h1E0VcM24680@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-pljginhvvjydywfjaioazwteqy" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:34:17 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-pljginhvvjydywfjaioazwteqy Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mostly because I got tired of typing that much. --upas-pljginhvvjydywfjaioazwteqy Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Feb 13 19:32:18 EST 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Feb 13 19:32:16 EST 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A13F19AC0; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:32:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 95CA119ABF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:31:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19408 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:31:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1E0VcM24680 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:31:38 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302140031.h1E0VcM24680@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Speaking of routing.... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:21:27 EST." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:31:38 -0500 > Actually, dial does currently dial /net first and then > /net.alt. It's a hack I've never been too proud of > but I like it better than changing every single service > to check where the call is coming from, mistakes there > are too easy. Okay, here's a question; I honestly don't understand something. Why do so many servers take a ``-x'' option to set the network mount point, instead of taking the (presumably more general) ``-A announce_string'' (or whatever you want to call it, if -A doesn't float your boat)? Can't the nework directory be adequately specified using the announce string syntax: /netdir/proto!addr!service or whatever? - Dan C. --upas-pljginhvvjydywfjaioazwteqy-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 09:46:00 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 09:46:00 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23687 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 09:45:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23677 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 09:45:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 09:45:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E093319AB4; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:45:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4536D19ABC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:44:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21626 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:44:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1E0iAM24758 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:44:10 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302140044.h1E0iAM24758@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Speaking of routing.... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:32:04 EST." <7e38167c7e140e20a8c47d19c9f0ffbb@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:44:10 -0500 > As for the delay, there wouldn't be one if your inside dns server > came back quickly with a nonexistant domain response. However, if > it comes back with an address that won't work in the inside or > doesn't come back, you're stuck with the timeout. That's fine, I understand that part. I guess I'm confused with what the IP stack does with the packet it's trying to send if no route exists for it. Why would it take time timing out if it had no place to send it? That is, if the IP stack only knows how to send to hosts on 172.16.1.0/24, and no where else, why does it need to timeout when it tries to send a packet to 146.186.132.2? More importantly, what's it doing with that packet in the mean time? Not that I'm really worried about it at this point, I'm just curious. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 09:49:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 09:49:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23797 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 09:49:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23793 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 09:49:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 09:49:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E9DD619ACD; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:49:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DD42B19ACB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:48:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <76cc509354c36dd8c15b1cf96c99e2c9@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Speaking of routing.... In-Reply-To: <200302140044.h1E0iAM24758@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:48:13 -0500 If you have a default route, it'll send it that way. If it has no route, and it doesn't stop right away, that's my fault. I may easily have screwed up. I'll check. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 09:51:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 09:51:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23885 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 09:51:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23880 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 09:51:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 09:51:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A5EC819ACE; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:51:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 27DD319ACB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:50:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA22456 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:50:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1E0oHM24845 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:50:17 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302140050.h1E0oHM24845@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Speaking of routing.... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:48:13 EST." <76cc509354c36dd8c15b1cf96c99e2c9@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:50:17 -0500 > If you have a default route, it'll send it that way. If it > has no route, and it doesn't stop right away, that's my > fault. I may easily have screwed up. I'll check. I don't have a default route on the internal network; I'll have to check when my girlfriend wakes up. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 09:53:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 09:53:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23927 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 09:53:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23923 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 09:53:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 09:53:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6807B19AD6; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:53:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C04D719ACF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:52:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Speaking of routing.... In-Reply-To: <200302140050.h1E0oHM24845@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ghonayksiaeptnsgrnybsztfxj" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:52:11 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ghonayksiaeptnsgrnybsztfxj Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I checked and I'm definitely screwing up. I'll fix it after supper. --upas-ghonayksiaeptnsgrnybsztfxj Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Feb 13 19:51:18 EST 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Feb 13 19:51:15 EST 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7800F19ACB; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:51:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 27DD319ACB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:50:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA22456 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:50:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1E0oHM24845 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:50:17 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302140050.h1E0oHM24845@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Speaking of routing.... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:48:13 EST." <76cc509354c36dd8c15b1cf96c99e2c9@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:50:17 -0500 > If you have a default route, it'll send it that way. If it > has no route, and it doesn't stop right away, that's my > fault. I may easily have screwed up. I'll check. I don't have a default route on the internal network; I'll have to check when my girlfriend wakes up. - Dan C. --upas-ghonayksiaeptnsgrnybsztfxj-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 09:58:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 09:58:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24117 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 09:58:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24113 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 09:58:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 09:58:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D9DE19AD9; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:58:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 13A6C19AD4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:57:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA23459 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:57:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1E0vAM24911 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:57:10 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302140057.h1E0vAM24911@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Speaking of routing.... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:52:11 EST." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:57:10 -0500 > I checked and I'm definitely screwing up. I'll fix it after supper. Cool. Spasiba. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 11:24:05 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 11:24:05 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27270 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 11:23:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27256 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 11:23:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 11:23:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 925C919AB1; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 21:23:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-227.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.227]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 05270199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 21:22:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <7ee3623d18f5d40b8d6f90007f008d46@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <200302131521.h1DFLpG10205@math.Princeton.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:06:33 -0800 Just a reminder that CPU and file servers can use any old VGA cards since they only use CGA mode anyway. For personal use, you probably only need one terminal. So limited choices in VGA hardware aren't a great hardship. As for the lack of web browsers and other Applications™, the beauty of distributed computing is that you don't have do everything on one machine with one operating system. Once I get a bug or two related to PCI cards in old Macs fixed in Darwin, I'll be running a web browser on an OS-X Mac and using vnc over a private Ethernet to reach the Mac from my terminal. (Why a Mac? It's the only platform I can find with competent browsers [able to deal with banks' web sites, for example] that don't blow up and take all their windows with them [and usually pretty frequently]. You'd think they could fork a process per window, to provide some insulation against core dumps, but noooooo..... At least Opera remembers which windows you had open, unlike Netscrape and its ilk.) As for why I use Plan 9, it's partly personal preference and partly that Plan 9 is a very elegant and competent system. Reading the early Plan 9 papers, I got the same shiver down my spine as from reading the CACM Unix paper, and in both cases thought `they've really figured it out'. (I was further amazed when I got access to a Unix system to discover that it worked as described, without arbitrary limits or hidden gotchas, in marked contrast to virtually all other operating systems at the time.) Only Tenex ever came close to that, and that was probably in part due to my background working on PDP-10s. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 14:09:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 14:09:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1087 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 14:09:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1083 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 14:09:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 14:09:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B07D419ABB; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 00:09:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 07AB819AA8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 00:08:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-yjqjyyhushlamyfkvpacxvipwl" Subject: [9fans] marsv man page Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:10:04 +0900 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-yjqjyyhushlamyfkvpacxvipwl Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I included the man page of marsv(1pub). If you have any suggestions to make it more readable English, please let me know PERSONALLY. Thanks, Kenji --upas-yjqjyyhushlamyfkvpacxvipwl Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit .TH MARSV 1 .SH NAME marsv \- viewes PDS images and measures altitude of Mars surface using MOLA grid data, and outputts its result to postscript formatted file .SH SYNOPSIS .B marsv .SH DESCRIPTION .I Marsv is a GUI program to measure Mars altitude, latitude and longitude at the place pointed by mouse on a Qube image or MOLA grid data, and to draw its contour map laying over the image using MOLA grid data, and to output postscript file for printing. .PP Marsv is aimed to make acme like user interface for Mars image manipulation additionally with 3 button menu bar, where button 1 (left button) shows the category name of the item, button 2 (middle button) does the indicated job by the menu name, and button 3 (right button) lists the items of that category and let choose one. .PP In Altitude menu of ISISmenu category of QUBELoad menu or MOLALoad menu, button 1 shows the values of altitude, longitude and latitude pointed by the mouse. When the mouse in this mode is dragged, those values will be shown continuously, which makes you to understand the real shape of the object you are now watching. In Contour menu of ISISmenu category of QUBELoad menu, dragging button 3 can make correction of the minor discrepancy between that indicated by MOLA grid data and by Qube image data. After this recalibration, remapping of the countour will be necessary to get a correct one. The values of longitude and latitude showed in Altitude menu of ISISmenu category are also recalculated by the above procedure. In short, you have to confirm the accuracy of those data shown by mouse by showing contour maps, and if necessary, that recalibration should be done. Those two values will not usually match each other from our experiences. .PP Mrasv designed as an single threaded concurrent program using thread(2) and control(2) libraries of Plan 9. Marsv assumes there is a MOLA grid data (such as ieg0031t.img for 0.031 degree grid) under $home/data/mars/mola/ directory. Additionally, marsv can read many other PDS formatted images of other planet, and make a bit of annotations using Pen menu by changing colors from Palette menu. .SH EXTENSION Four general purpose user interfaces with its own window are implemented as shown in struct Form, struct Filebrowse, struct Select and struct Viewer. Those structures are constructed using two new basic structures, controlling those shape, position or behaviours called struct Win and struct WinComm. .PP Struct Canvas is prepared to provide layer structures to marsv image by using memdraw and layer functions in draw(2) libraries of Plan 9, which is a mechanism to use multiple memory layers to draw for altitude, latitude and longitude data at the moving mouse point. Struct Layer and CanvasBase are used as their base structures. The other many structures from control(2) library are also used through newly defined structure of Wincontrol. .PP We added struct Textbutton3 for our usage of 3 button menu bar to control(2) library. You may want to copy textbutton3.c file to /sys/src/libcontrol, and do mk the control library with some change to /sys/include/control.h and /sys/src/libcontrol/control.c and mkfile to make those usable.. .PP If you want to extend functionarities to marsv, please refer to files such as imager.c or marsv.c. .SH BUGS Some images with larger width may fail to be shown, because of the limit of 9p protocol. 16 bit color is not supported to save the created image. You will lose true color from saving in 16 bit true color mode of Plan 9. To input file name etc. onto the entry box, you have to hit Enter key at the end to ensure the input, which is not a bug though. There may be many other bugs. .SH AUTHORS Marsv is written by Yoshitatsu Suzuki and Kenji Okamoto of Osaka Prefecture University. We are financially supported by the citizens of Osaka Prefecure Japan. --upas-yjqjyyhushlamyfkvpacxvipwl-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 16:41:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 16:41:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6590 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 16:41:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6586 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 16:41:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 16:41:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 24A6219AA5; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 02:41:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A101919AC6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 02:40:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <6c56f5035a29049ba00aa71c52bf35a1@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: yoshitatsu.suzuki@ctc-g.co.jp, 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] marsv man page Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:01:35 +0900 Include /sys/man/1pub/marsv Included is the man page of marsv(1pub)! Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 17:50:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 17:50:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8978 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 17:50:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8974 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 17:50:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 17:50:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D33FF19AD2; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 03:50:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from XMAIL.asuch.cas.cz (clusterb.asuch.cas.cz [147.231.136.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 096D919AD0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 03:49:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from picture ([147.231.139.42]) by XMAIL.asuch.cas.cz over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:48:56 +0100 Message-ID: <001801c2d405$e91ea5a0$2a8be793@gli.cas.cz> From: "peter a. cejchan" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Organization: paleobiology & paleoecology lab MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Feb 2003 08:48:56.0935 (UTC) FILETIME=[E9083770:01C2D405] Subject: [9fans] Re: GCC3.0 [Was; Webbrowser] Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:48:56 +0100 >> Otherwise, let us not try to make Plan 9 another *nux* or *BSD. > I just call them all `lunix'. i propose 'bellsandwhistlesnix'. or just 'winix'. sigh... ++pac. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 18:23:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 18:23:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9709 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 18:23:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9705 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 18:23:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 18:23:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9557D19ABE; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 04:23:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from hamnavoe (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 64112199ED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 04:22:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] iSCSI From: Richard Miller In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:22:14 0000 > ... what if I've just been dying to get my hands on ip routable > disk blocks? Why just imagine the breaches, err, uses that will > arise from such functionality. Early versions of SunOS used a block-oriented "Network Disk" protocol over IP to serve root and swap to diskless clients. It was not particularly secure ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 18:32:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 18:32:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9898 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 18:32:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9894 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 18:32:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 18:32:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0735919AC7; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 04:32:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from hamnavoe (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B6A8719AC6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 04:31:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <9e468919efc946c025cece890686df57@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... From: Richard Miller In-Reply-To: <7ee3623d18f5d40b8d6f90007f008d46@collyer.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:31:23 0000 > (I was further amazed when I got access to a Unix system to > discover that it worked as described, without arbitrary limits or > hidden gotchas, in marked contrast to virtually all other operating > systems at the time.) 6th edition Unix was not altogether free of arbitrary limits. For example, userids were 8-bit integers ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 18:35:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 18:35:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9943 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 18:35:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9939 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 18:35:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 18:35:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C68DE19ADB; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 04:35:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3514219AD7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 04:34:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18jcCg-0004d8-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:32:18 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3E4C66DC.4000604@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200302131521.h1DFLpG10205@math.Princeton.EDU>, Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:31:53 GMT Ronald G. Minnich wrote: > - "you can't secure a system with a privileged user" - Spaf Actually you can, but only if the *only* use of privilege on the system is to implement a suitable security policy. The use of set-UID-0 *applications* on Unix was extremely short-sighted. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 18:35:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 18:35:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9951 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 18:35:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9947 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 18:35:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 18:35:36 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 64D7719AD3; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 04:35:21 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-227.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.227]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AFFE619AD7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 04:34:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0a29a2fe7202900e1f5dba6aaa9e529b@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <9e468919efc946c025cece890686df57@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 01:34:50 -0800 Compared to other systems of the day, even 6th edition seemed marvellously free of arbitrary limits, particularly ones visible to the user. I could regale the list with horror stories of other systems, but that's probably best done elsewhere. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 18:35:59 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 18:35:59 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9962 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 18:35:59 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9958 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 18:35:58 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 18:35:58 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8715F19AE0; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 04:35:31 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D2B0019AD7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 04:34:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18jcCA-0004c7-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:31:46 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: maynard Message-ID: <39272337.0302131132.6de305d0@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <39272337.0302122339.3c09f791@posting.google.com>, Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan9 n00b questions Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:31:36 GMT fst@centurytel.net (Skip Tavakkolian) wrote in message news:... > > Is > > there some documentation that someone could point me to for a pop > > client (to get my bellsouth.net mail and smtp to I can forward mail > > out of plan9? > > Look at the wiki pages for "Mail configuration", at the official site. Thanks took a look but the point eluded me :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 21:14:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 21:14:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13071 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 21:14:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13067 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 21:14:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 21:14:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4DDD719AD7; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 07:14:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BAEF1199ED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 07:13:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <576bf9c09f9cb6e91e5b33e54e0ff39b@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Fco.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] silly change for 9/boot/mkboot (cfs) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 13:13:32 +0100 This command said $1 == cfs.root, which should probably be /386/bin/cfs or /$objtype/bin/cfs ../port/mkextract bootdir 0 $* | awk ' BEGIN { cfs = 0 } $1 == "/386/bin/cfs" { cfs = 1 } END { if(cfs) print "int (*cfs)(int) = cache;" else print "int (*cfs)(int) = 0;" } ' From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 22:02:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 22:02:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13776 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 22:02:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13772 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 22:02:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 22:02:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 619FD19AC5; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 08:02:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from infocom.km.ua (infocom.km.ua [195.230.134.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ADFC219ABD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 08:01:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from kp.km.ua (root@kp.km.ua [217.196.174.2]) by infocom.km.ua (8.12.7/8.12.7/ic) with ESMTP id h1ED1bIR096223 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 15:01:38 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Received: from localhost.localdomain (dialup08.kp.km.ua [217.196.174.23]) by kp.km.ua (kp.km.ua/8.12.6/kp-branch) with SMTP id h1ED1WTc084958 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 15:01:34 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; charset="koi8-r"; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_58EB0CDEJJJ0S9A9YWNN" From: "A.S. Kukhar" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] install problems X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] References: <3e452d2e$1_3@news.arrakis.es> In-Reply-To: <3e452d2e$1_3@news.arrakis.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <03021414454500.00582@localhost.localdomain> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 15:00:05 -0500 --------------Boundary-00=_58EB0CDEJJJ0S9A9YWNN Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: hi, i have geforce2 mx 400 64mb card (on MSI K7T266Pro2-U VIA KT266A motherboard) and when booting from install floppy i get the following: pcirouting: South bridge 1106, 3177 not found and pcirouting: South bridge 1106/3177 unknown graphics mode is allright but partdisk founds only my cdrom device: sdD0 - SAMSUNG CD-ROM SC-152L C100COM (vgainfo.txt and pci.txt are attached) any help would be great, thanks -kyxap --------------Boundary-00=_58EB0CDEJJJ0S9A9YWNN Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r"; name="pci.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pci.txt" MDYuMDAuMDAgMTEwNi8zMDk5ICAgMAowNi4wNC4wMCAxMTA2L2IwOTkgICAwCjA3LjgwLjAwIDE1 MWYvMDAwMCAgMTAgMDowMDAwZWMwMSAxNgowYy4wMy4wMCAxMTA2LzMwMzggIDExIDQ6MDAwMGUw MDEgMzIKMGMuMDMuMDAgMTEwNi8zMDM4ICAgNSA0OjAwMDBlNDAxIDMyCjBjLjAzLjAwIDExMDYv MzAzOCAgMTAgNDowMDAwZTgwMSAzMgowYy4wMy4yMCAxMTA2LzMxMDQgICA1IDA6ZGZmZmZmMDAg MjU2CjA2LjAxLjAwIDExMDYvMzE3NyAgIDAKMDEuMDEuOGEgMTEwNi8wNTcxIDI1NSA0OjAwMDBm YzAxIDE2CjA0LjAxLjAwIDExMDYvMzA1OSAgMTAgMDowMDAwZGMwMSAyNTYKMDMuMDAuMDAgMTBk ZS8wMTEwICAxMSAwOmRlMDAwMDAwIDE2Nzc3MjE2IDE6ZDAwMDAwMDggMTM0MjE3NzI4Cg== --------------Boundary-00=_58EB0CDEJJJ0S9A9YWNN Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r"; name="vgainfo.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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[130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BC6EA19AE5; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 08:41:29 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A48A319AE1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 08:40:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <98b94a6949552dc3aa03d60ef4d245ef@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... In-Reply-To: <9e468919efc946c025cece890686df57@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-wzkinkdfmlcprgzmdpqfbwzzat" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 08:40:39 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-wzkinkdfmlcprgzmdpqfbwzzat Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit not too mention having to recompile the compiler every now and then with a bigger symbol table, 14 character file names, fixed size process table, ... --upas-wzkinkdfmlcprgzmdpqfbwzzat Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Feb 14 04:32:22 EST 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Fri Feb 14 04:32:19 EST 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EDE5B19AD0; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 04:32:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from hamnavoe (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B6A8719AC6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 04:31:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <9e468919efc946c025cece890686df57@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... From: Richard Miller In-Reply-To: <7ee3623d18f5d40b8d6f90007f008d46@collyer.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:31:23 0000 > (I was further amazed when I got access to a Unix system to > discover that it worked as described, without arbitrary limits or > hidden gotchas, in marked contrast to virtually all other operating > systems at the time.) 6th edition Unix was not altogether free of arbitrary limits. For example, userids were 8-bit integers ... --upas-wzkinkdfmlcprgzmdpqfbwzzat-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 14 23:43:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 14 23:43:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14945 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Feb 2003 23:43:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14941 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 23:43:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 23:43:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EC1EB19ADE; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:43:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C202199ED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:42:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2c8a62deb93d54a6bacc11e393342f3b@plan9.bell-labs.com> X-Plan9-Fortune: p1_isup.c:756:compiler error: out of temporary trees From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan9 n00b questions In-Reply-To: <39272337.0302131132.6de305d0@posting.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:42:31 -0500 > Thanks took a look but the point eluded me :) see upasfs(4). you want to run upas/fs -f/pop/your.server smtp is explained in the mail config page. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 00:03:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 00:03:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15193 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 00:03:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15189 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 00:03:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 00:03:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0F2DA19AEC; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:03:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BFF2D19AE9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:02:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1EF2uGo010695 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:02:56 +0100 (MET) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1EF2sub013083 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:02:54 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id h1EF2sr12679 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:02:54 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200302141502.h1EF2sr12679@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with version: MH 6.8.3 #20[UCI] To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:02:54 +0100 Just wondering how people who have multiple users using their fs deal with fs permissions during update from sources. (in case it makes a difference: non-fossil, but I assume that the basic questions are independent of fs impl) Planned down-time to run the update? Or update on-the-fly? Use `allow' on boot? Use `allow' from console? How do you avoid that those who do not run the update profit (even just by accident) from the `allow' flag? `Hangup' together with `noattach'? Or is this all just a non-issue? For updating on-the-fly, I'm wondering whether it would help to add a version of the console `allow' command that takes a uid, in the same way as duallow does. Browsed the fs source; hacking it in does not seem to be a problem, but, since it is not there yet, it seems that people can live without it, hence I'm wondering: what do others do? Axel. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 00:11:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 00:11:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15465 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 00:11:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15461 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 00:11:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 00:11:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2CE3919AE7; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:11:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 19A04199ED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:10:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h1EFAcRV012203 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 08:10:38 -0700 Received: (qmail 19424 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 08:10:38 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 08:10:38 -0700 Received: (qmail 1662 invoked by uid 3499); 14 Feb 2003 08:10:37 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 08:10:37 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] iSCSI In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 08:10:37 -0700 (MST) On Fri, 14 Feb 2003, Richard Miller wrote: > Early versions of SunOS used a block-oriented "Network Disk" protocol > over IP to serve root and swap to diskless clients. It was not > particularly secure ... yep. I still remember setting that one up. What's weird is that the whole PC world seems oblivious to the fact that we've been here before, multiple times. It figures, microsoft is involved. So who's writing #iSCSI? ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 00:12:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 00:12:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15489 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 00:12:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15485 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 00:12:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 00:12:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1199119AEE; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:12:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 52F2119AE8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:11:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h1EFBwBU014462 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 08:11:58 -0700 Received: (qmail 19430 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 08:11:58 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 08:11:58 -0700 Received: (qmail 1665 invoked by uid 3499); 14 Feb 2003 08:11:58 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 08:11:58 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... In-Reply-To: <3E4C66DC.4000604@null.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 08:11:58 -0700 (MST) On Fri, 14 Feb 2003, Douglas A. Gwyn wrote: > Actually you can, but only if the *only* use of privilege > on the system is to implement a suitable security policy. well you're an old Unix buzzard so I'll let you and Spaf argue that one. Security makes me dizzy. > The use of set-UID-0 *applications* on Unix was extremely > short-sighted. Hey, it was worth a patent. And at the time it certainly beat the options (which on the systems I user were: none) ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 00:13:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 00:13:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15503 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 00:13:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15499 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 00:13:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 00:13:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0E06C19AF0; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:13:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE40C19AEF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:12:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h1EFCJBU014571 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 08:12:19 -0700 Received: (qmail 19433 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 08:12:19 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 08:12:19 -0700 Received: (qmail 1668 invoked by uid 3499); 14 Feb 2003 08:12:19 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 08:12:19 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... In-Reply-To: <0a29a2fe7202900e1f5dba6aaa9e529b@collyer.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 08:12:19 -0700 (MST) On Fri, 14 Feb 2003, Geoff Collyer wrote: > I could regale the list with horror stories of other > systems, but that's probably best done elsewhere. no need to, we've all used DOS I bet. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 00:17:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 00:17:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15554 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 00:17:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15550 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 00:17:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 00:17:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 028AA19AE9; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:17:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 152E619AE2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:16:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: X-Plan9-Fortune: Satire does not look pretty upon a tombstone. From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs administration: how do people update multi-user fs? In-Reply-To: <200302141502.h1EF2sr12679@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:16:47 -0500 I removed the -u flag from /dist/replica/network and just run as me. Since I'm in group sys I have permissions enough to do a pull. There's no need for allowing. This mirrors the way the Plan 9 file server at Bell Labs runs. We don't "su to root" or anything like that to install new binaries; we do it as ourselves, and make sure our accounts have the right permissions. Some people who were more wary of having such permissions all the time have maintained two accounts, e.g. glenda and glendasys, switching to glendasys to do administrative work. That's still a far cry from root. (Doing the software packaging I became painfully aware of how bad Unix is in this regard. It was impossible to test my installations without su'ing to root. You'd think that some Unix would take the hint and use group permissions so that you didn't have to be root to install potentially untrusted pieces of software that come with custom build scripts.) Allow is useful to get started, and I made it the default in the pull scripts for kfs because kfs is usually a single-user system and allowing solved the problem of remembering to be in group sys, but in general I think it's a bigger hammer than you need. If you're running your own file server, then I have no problem with forcing you to figure out group sys. A few people have proposed a per-uid allow or a per-connection allow for the purposes of updating, but to me, it feels way too much like root. I like the fact that you can't "allow" except when starting the file system. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 00:21:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 00:21:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15632 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 00:21:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15628 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 00:21:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 00:21:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 38DB319AEB; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:21:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2D14919AEB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:20:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h1EFKGBU016771 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 08:20:16 -0700 Received: (qmail 19470 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 08:20:16 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 08:20:16 -0700 Received: (qmail 1688 invoked by uid 3499); 14 Feb 2003 08:20:16 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 08:20:16 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs administration: how do people update multi-user fs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 08:20:16 -0700 (MST) On Fri, 14 Feb 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > (Doing the software packaging I became painfully aware > of how bad Unix is in this regard. It was impossible to > test my installations without su'ing to root. You'd think > that some Unix would take the hint and use group permissions > so that you didn't have to be root to install potentially > untrusted pieces of software that come with custom build > scripts.) A few things I've noticed in recent years, esp. on Linux - you need to be root more than you used to - more priveleged ports, not less - more setuid-root stuff, not less - code that used to be portable to many systems now has trouble compiling on non-Linux systems Things are going downhill in the OS monoculture. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 00:35:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 00:35:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15810 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 00:35:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15806 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 00:35:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 00:35:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 55DD619ABC; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:35:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A75D419AE6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:34:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1EFXpmt026319 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 17:33:52 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h1EFXpGL026318 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 17:33:51 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs administration: how do people update multi-user fs? Message-ID: <20030214173349.B9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200302141502.h1EF2sr12679@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from Russ Cox on Fri, Feb 14, 2003 at 10:16:47AM -0500 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 17:33:50 +0200 On Fri, Feb 14, 2003 at 10:16:47AM -0500, Russ Cox wrote: > > I removed the -u flag from /dist/replica/network > and just run as me. Since I'm in group sys I have > permissions enough to do a pull. There's no need > for allowing. > You can't create new files, though, and assign them sys as owner or special permissions. Unless of course you manage to log in as "sys". > [ ... ] > > Russ Well, I'll be flattered, Russ manages to mirror my semntiments pretty accurately. That should worry him. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 00:38:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 00:38:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15850 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 00:38:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15846 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 00:38:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 00:38:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 96B4F19AF3; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:38:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6AEA019AE6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:37:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Feb 14 10:37:31 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Fri Feb 14 10:37:29 EST 2003 Message-ID: <346212e634d0875d1ce2abee3182725b@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs administration: how do people update multi-user fs? From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030214173349.B9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:37:26 -0500 > You can't create new files, though, and assign them sys as owner or > special permissions. Unless of course you manage to log in as "sys". right, removing -u does not set the owners. the owners don't matter anyway. you can certainly set the permissions to whatever you want, though -- you're the owner! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 01:09:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 01:09:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16159 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 01:09:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16155 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 01:09:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 01:09:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 102D119AF5; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:09:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0E50A19AE6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:08:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <20030214173349.B9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] chown in fossil Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 17:08:18 +0100 When you try to chown a file in fossil, you sometimes get an error like `attempting to change length of a directory entry'. Is that a bug or a feature? I was going to take a look at it but don't know if that's the intended behaviour. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 01:17:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 01:17:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16251 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 01:17:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16247 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 01:17:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 01:17:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7F55F19AF9; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:17:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C9E5F19A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:16:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09053 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:16:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1EGGDM29367 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:16:13 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302141616.h1EGGDM29367@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs administration: how do people update multi-user fs? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:16:47 EST." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:16:13 -0500 > I like the fact that you can't "allow" except when starting > the file system. In the current file server (not fossil), you can ``allow'' from the console when it's up and running (and then ``disallow''). I just wish you could toggle none attaches, as well. I can wait for fossil to take over, though. btw- I still like the idea of /dist/replica/inst and /dist/replica/site; is there any chance of getting such things sanctioned by the powers that be and put on sources? - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 01:18:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 01:18:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16259 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 01:18:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16255 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 01:18:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 01:18:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CD74B19A02; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:18:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8F6FC19AE2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:17:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Feb 14 11:17:52 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Fri Feb 14 11:17:49 EST 2003 Message-ID: <90358b2def55278e58cc538d9f6a45d8@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] chown in fossil From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:17:50 -0500 what is the exact error? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 01:21:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 01:21:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16302 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 01:21:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16298 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 01:21:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 01:21:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C487A19AFB; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:21:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 92A9F19AFB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:20:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] chown in fossil From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <90358b2def55278e58cc538d9f6a45d8@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-pvccodoenoczgpvuwadekddzjb" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 17:20:33 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-pvccodoenoczgpvuwadekddzjb Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit chown: can't chown wiki to paurea: wstat -- attempt to change length of directory The old owner was "nemo". --upas-pvccodoenoczgpvuwadekddzjb Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Fri Feb 14 17:18:24 MET 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CD74B19A02; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:18:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8F6FC19AE2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:17:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Feb 14 11:17:52 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Fri Feb 14 11:17:49 EST 2003 Message-ID: <90358b2def55278e58cc538d9f6a45d8@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] chown in fossil From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:17:50 -0500 what is the exact error? --upas-pvccodoenoczgpvuwadekddzjb-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 01:24:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 01:24:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16312 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 01:24:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16308 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 01:24:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 01:24:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 24FA719B04; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:24:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C1E1819AFE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:23:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: X-Plan9-Fortune: Don't puting nathing in the line. Today is washing poison machine. From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] chown in fossil In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:23:12 -0500 fossil is fussier about rejecting bad 9p requests than any of our other file servers. in this case your chown Twstat message is actually attempting to change the length field as well as the uid field. which program are you using to chown? chgrp -o looks like it does the right thing. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 01:25:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 01:25:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16320 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 01:25:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16316 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 01:25:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 01:25:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 01DE619B01; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:25:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from work (unknown [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4CFA619B01 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:24:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: "Steve Simon" To: 9fans@snellwilcox.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] (no subject) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:19:46 0000 Hi all, Are there any know problems with the mouse cursor and the Matrox G400 ? I am trying to another install and cannot see the mouse cursor at all (I don't think its the mouse causing problems - even though its a serial one :-). I saw there where problems when the driver was first written on the archives but that was years ago. Any thoughts anyone? -Steve From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 01:28:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 01:28:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16350 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 01:28:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16346 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 01:28:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 01:28:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 383E519B0D; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:28:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6243719B06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:27:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <7d54c0bf4a324f74eb11f00844bac457@plan9.escet.urjc.es> From: Fco.J.Ballesteros To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] chown in fossil In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-cmkbwovlynwcdiyvcwtmtuqcxu" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 17:27:25 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-cmkbwovlynwcdiyvcwtmtuqcxu Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ugh. That was it. We had a chown.c from a long time ago (even before we had the 3rd ed. fs running). I got used to chown and never used chgrp -o. I just deleted chown. thanks a lot. --upas-cmkbwovlynwcdiyvcwtmtuqcxu Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Fri Feb 14 17:24:25 MET 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 24FA719B04; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:24:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C1E1819AFE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:23:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: X-Plan9-Fortune: Don't puting nathing in the line. Today is washing poison machine. From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] chown in fossil In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:23:12 -0500 fossil is fussier about rejecting bad 9p requests than any of our other file servers. in this case your chown Twstat message is actually attempting to change the length field as well as the uid field. which program are you using to chown? chgrp -o looks like it does the right thing. --upas-cmkbwovlynwcdiyvcwtmtuqcxu-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 01:41:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 01:41:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16457 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 01:41:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16453 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 01:41:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 01:41:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6C02919AFC; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:41:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailhost.det3.ameritech.net (mailhost2-sfldmi.sfldmi.ameritech.net [206.141.193.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B8BF819AE6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:40:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from ameritech.net ([67.38.15.139]) by mailhost.det3.ameritech.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with ESMTP id <20030214164043.CQIB176.mailhost.det3.ameritech.net@ameritech.net> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:40:43 -0500 Message-ID: <3E4D1BE3.4050800@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <3E4C385D.9060805@ameritech.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] FS dimension Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:40:03 -0500 > Just random thought, has anyone played with the concept of a stackable > bind? i.e. instead of /net.alt bound over /net so that accessing /net/cs > always thunks /net.alt/cs, make it so thunk one in the target dir > accesses > the top of the LIFO (/net.alt/cs), then, the successive thunk would > access > the lower object: the true /net/cs. This would generate a > multidimensional > file system rather than solely a linear. There could be fs calls for > resetting the > LIFO, somehow.. Just a thought. Despite the effort it would take to put this theory into function, what does everyone think of the basic concept? Instead of a filesystem accessed as: transparent access points -----v file1 file2 file3 ... /path obj1 obj2 obj3 ... // actual internal FS objects You now have stacked objective binds: % bind -stack ... transparent access points -----v file1 file2 file3 ... /path2 obj1.2 obj2.2 obj3.2 ... // second stacked bind /path1 obj1.1 obj2.1 obj3.1 ... // first stacked bind /path obj1 obj2 obj3 ... // original So a given access mechanism (AM) would open "/path/file1". This initial thunk would pop "obj1.2" off "file1"'s LIFO to the AM. If this isn't the desired object the AM can request a secondary open on the same path "/path/file1", popping "obj1.1" off the LIFO, this time. This might be interesting in database regression environments or, perhaps, stackable networks. This was just off the top of my head, yesterday, but, I'd like to know what this mailing group has to say regarding the idea. Don > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 01:46:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 01:46:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16495 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 01:46:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16491 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 01:46:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 01:46:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5C51019B14; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:46:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ACD3319B0E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:45:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.7) with ESMTP id 467325 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:45:01 -0600 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <98b94a6949552dc3aa03d60ef4d245ef@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 08:44:12 -0800 > not too mention having to recompile the compiler every now and > then with a bigger symbol table, 14 character file names, fixed > size process table, ... 512 bytes of arguments to commands. yes, echo * was pretty limited and a typical modern gcc compile line wouldn't even get past the -Ws. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 01:48:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 01:48:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16528 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 01:48:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16524 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 01:48:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 01:48:39 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5630619B16; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:48:30 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4F00C19B0F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:47:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h1EGliBU012262 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:47:44 -0700 Received: (qmail 20136 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 09:47:44 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 09:47:44 -0700 Received: (qmail 2343 invoked by uid 3499); 14 Feb 2003 09:47:44 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 09:47:44 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:47:44 -0700 (MST) On Fri, 14 Feb 2003, rob pike, esq. wrote: > 512 bytes of arguments to commands. yes, echo * was pretty > limited and a typical modern gcc compile line wouldn't even get > past the -Ws. this is bad, it looks like you're speaking from experience ... ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 02:16:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 02:16:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16742 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 02:16:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16738 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 02:16:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 02:16:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7D67A19B15; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:16:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (mail.math.Princeton.EDU [128.112.18.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 99E7B19B11 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:15:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from fine1008.math.princeton.edu (fine1008.math.princeton.edu [128.112.16.123]) by Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h1EHF7q02725 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:15:07 -0500 Received: from fine1008.math.princeton.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fine1008.math.princeton.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h1EHF7O26795 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:15:07 -0500 Message-Id: <200302141715.h1EHF7O26795@fine1008.math.princeton.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: John Stalker Subject: [9fans] Re: install problems Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:15:07 -0500 From "A.S. Kukhar" >hi, >i have geforce2 mx 400 64mb card (on >MSI K7T266Pro2-U VIA KT266A motherboard) >and when booting from install floppy i >get the following: > > pcirouting: South bridge 1106, 3177 not found >and > pcirouting: South bridge 1106/3177 unknown > >graphics mode is allright but partdisk >founds only my cdrom device: > > sdD0 - SAMSUNG CD-ROM SC-152L C100COM > >(vgainfo.txt and pci.txt are attached) >any help would be great, thanks >-kyxap I also got the pcirouting messages on that motherboard. I "fixed" it by adding a few lines in pci.c to recognize the southbridge, which is a VT8235, and do the generic VIA chipset initialization. I wrote fixed in quotation marks because the only observable effect was that the error message disappeared. David Hogan subsequently pointed out that recognizing the southbridge is only important as a workaround for some buggy BIOSes, so you can probably ignore it. -- John Stalker Department of Mathematics Princeton University (609)258-6469 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 02:17:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 02:17:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16751 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 02:17:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16747 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 02:17:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 02:17:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CFB5C19AC6; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:17:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from edoras.nas.com (edoras.nas.com [206.63.100.8]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 904C519B17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:16:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from nas.com (unknown [164.116.190.46]) by edoras.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D130EB646 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:16:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3E4D2482.3020204@nas.com> From: Jack Johnson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.2a) Gecko/20020910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, es MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs administration: how do people update multi-user fs? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:16:50 -0800 Ronald G. Minnich wrote: > A few things I've noticed in recent years, esp. on Linux > - you need to be root more than you used to > - more priveleged ports, not less I know this is off-topic for this list, but would you be willing to elaborate a bit? I agree with you in the other areas, but it seems that we're trading services, not necessarily adding services. SSH for telnet and ftp, so yes, maybe setuid-root, but we add a privileged port and drop two. We might add Samba or netatalk to a system that already has NFS shares, but the reasons they're privileged ports seem to be outside the hands of the Linux community, and most of the added privileged ports seem to be running as unique users now, instead of all running as root. It also seems like increased usage of chrooted/jailed services has made things slightly better, even though it's still privileged, and yes, still a mess. Are there better ways? Sure, but you're not likely to see them widely implemented anytime soon. As long as Linux continues to accrete functionality to accomodate Someone Else's OS the prevalent services will always be less than desired, but I don't see it as any worse than it was five years ago, just more of the same. I'm always suprised that there isn't more prevalent bootstrapping going on in the client world for halfway decent services. I wouldn't mind seeing an SFS client for Windows, or heck, even Java. Though I think OSX will let you have WebDAV home directories now, there should be some facility for arbitrary-service-home-directory for PAM. (Is the 9P on Python project still in existence?) -Jack From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 02:27:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 02:27:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16830 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 02:27:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16826 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 02:27:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 02:27:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 07B0719B0B; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:27:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 97BC419B17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:26:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21035 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:26:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1EHQeM00194 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:26:40 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302141726.h1EHQeM00194@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Dan Cross Subject: [9fans] addns() question. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:26:40 -0500 Why does addns() take a user argument? As near as I can tell, it's never used (since addns() calls buildns() with newns set to 0, and user is only used in buildns() if newns is non-zero). btw- I changed newns() to use tokenize (so quoting works), and to support a ``. filename'' command so that namespaces can be recursively included. Anyone interested in the changes? I think this may make it a little easier to support one or two off-cases where namespaces must diverge just a little bit from a common core. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 02:29:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 02:29:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16846 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 02:29:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16842 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 02:29:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 02:29:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7FE8619B17; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:29:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E654B19B00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:28:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1EHSBLp056832 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:28:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca) Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with ESMTP id h1EHSBue056829 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:28:11 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs administration: how do people update multi-user fs? In-Reply-To: <3E4D2482.3020204@nas.com> Message-ID: <20030214101950.L56261@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> References: <3E4D2482.3020204@nas.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:28:11 -0700 (MST) On Fri, 14 Feb 2003, Jack Johnson wrote: > It also seems like increased usage of chrooted/jailed services has made > things slightly better, even though it's still privileged, and yes, > still a mess. > > Are there better ways? [snip] It was pointed to me recently that after ten years of mulling with the implementation of "proper" jail/chroot environment (i.e. one that is not trivially b0rken) the FreeBSD security people have arrived at the conclusion that "something akin to Plan9's private namespaces may not be a bad idea"... Indeed it takes time, but sooner or later Linux/*BSD will adopt the ideas from Plan9 (some they have already -- devfs comes as an example). We need to do something before that time comes, otherwise no matter how bad their implementations are, everybody will say "well, I use linux because it's good enough" and everything will be lost... andrey ps: In a recent conversation I heard a person say "I can't for the life of me figure out how to play [some brand spanking new video format] in Windows! In Linux it just works." Times have changed, haven't they? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 02:43:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 02:43:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16962 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 02:43:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16958 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 02:43:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 02:43:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4949119B1F; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:43:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6641B19B00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:42:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h1EHgeRV030313 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:42:40 -0700 Received: (qmail 20673 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 10:42:40 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 10:42:40 -0700 Received: (qmail 2771 invoked by uid 3499); 14 Feb 2003 10:42:40 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 10:42:40 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs administration: how do people update multi-user fs? In-Reply-To: <20030214101950.L56261@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:42:40 -0700 (MST) On Fri, 14 Feb 2003, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > It was pointed to me recently that after ten years of mulling with the > implementation of "proper" jail/chroot environment (i.e. one that is not > trivially b0rken) the FreeBSD security people have arrived at the > conclusion that "something akin to Plan9's private namespaces may not be a > bad idea"... wow, I first started trying to get them interested in this in 1996. No interest of any kind. Looks like we have a time constant ... 7 years. At least it's prime. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 02:48:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 02:48:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16990 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 02:48:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16986 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 02:48:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 02:48:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AD06D19B0F; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:48:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B61BD19AFD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:47:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h1EHlHBU032359 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:47:17 -0700 Received: (qmail 20690 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 10:47:17 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 10:47:17 -0700 Received: (qmail 2779 invoked by uid 3499); 14 Feb 2003 10:47:16 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 10:47:16 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs administration: how do people update multi-user fs? In-Reply-To: <3E4D2482.3020204@nas.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:47:16 -0700 (MST) On Fri, 14 Feb 2003, Jack Johnson wrote: > Ronald G. Minnich wrote: > > A few things I've noticed in recent years, esp. on Linux > > - you need to be root more than you used to > > - more priveleged ports, not less > > I agree with you in the other areas, but it seems that we're trading > services, not necessarily adding services. yeah but. Some are new, some old, some just moved, all assume that priv ports somehow covers the problems. Each one of these new nice services makes you more vulnerable. The problem is we're continuing to glue stuff onto a system that probably can't be fixed, and nobody seems to care too much. Priv ports have been known to be a hack forever, but we use them more than ever. This seems a bad trend. I was also thinking of the move of the NFS port from 2049 to priv space. That was a really insecure protocol, and it still is: people seem to feel that moving it to priv space somehow made things better. Kind of funny, isn't it? After all, nobody can just boot dos and run a little code, right? ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 03:03:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 03:03:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17113 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 03:03:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17109 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 03:03:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 03:03:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F0A3719B1C; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 13:03:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from infocom.km.ua (infocom.km.ua [195.230.134.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 62B6E19B10 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 13:02:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from kp.km.ua (root@kp.km.ua [217.196.174.2]) by infocom.km.ua (8.12.7/8.12.7/ic) with ESMTP id h1EI2MIR075435 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 20:02:23 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Received: from localhost.localdomain (dialup02.kp.km.ua [217.196.174.17]) by kp.km.ua (kp.km.ua/8.12.6/kp-branch) with SMTP id h1EI2ITc015814 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 20:02:19 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" From: "A.S. Kukhar" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: install problems X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] References: <200302141715.h1EHF7O26795@fine1008.math.princeton.edu> In-Reply-To: <200302141715.h1EHF7O26795@fine1008.math.princeton.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <03021420011100.00582@localhost.localdomain> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 20:01:11 -0500 ok, but why partdisk can`t find my hard disk partitions? -kyxap > From "A.S. Kukhar" > > >hi, > >i have geforce2 mx 400 64mb card (on > >MSI K7T266Pro2-U VIA KT266A motherboard) > >and when booting from install floppy i > >get the following: > > > > pcirouting: South bridge 1106, 3177 not found > >and > > pcirouting: South bridge 1106/3177 unknown > > > >graphics mode is allright but partdisk > >founds only my cdrom device: > > > > sdD0 - SAMSUNG CD-ROM SC-152L C100COM > > > >(vgainfo.txt and pci.txt are attached) > >any help would be great, thanks > >-kyxap > > I also got the pcirouting messages on that motherboard. > I "fixed" it by adding a few lines in pci.c to recognize > the southbridge, which is a VT8235, and do the generic > VIA chipset initialization. I wrote fixed in quotation > marks because the only observable effect was that the > error message disappeared. David Hogan subsequently > pointed out that recognizing the southbridge is only > important as a workaround for some buggy BIOSes, so you > can probably ignore it. > -- > John Stalker > Department of Mathematics > Princeton University > (609)258-6469 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 03:06:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 03:06:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17142 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 03:06:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17138 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 03:06:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 03:06:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AA75B19B20; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 13:06:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailhost.det3.ameritech.net (mailhost2-sfldmi.sfldmi.ameritech.net [206.141.193.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0083419A2D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 13:05:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from ameritech.net ([67.38.15.139]) by mailhost.det3.ameritech.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with ESMTP id <20030214180533.DUHQ176.mailhost.det3.ameritech.net@ameritech.net> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 13:05:33 -0500 Message-ID: <3E4D2FC4.8000402@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs administration: how do people update multi-user fs? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 13:04:52 -0500 > > >wow, I first started trying to get them interested in this in 1996. No >interest of any kind. Looks like we have a time constant ... 7 years. At >least it's prime. > The thing that bugs me about this is that the FreeBSD team wasn't interested in private namespaces until they started researching the NSA's work on SELinux. (Quoting from FreeBSD developers) Plan9 has done this for ... how long.... yet, its work just isn't as important as, say, the NSA... Don > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 03:13:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 03:13:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17240 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 03:13:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17236 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 03:13:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 03:13:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E822719B24; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 13:13:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from kathmandu.sun.com (kathmandu.sun.com [192.18.98.36]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1A41519B00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 13:12:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from esunmail ([129.147.58.120]) by kathmandu.sun.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21158 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:12:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from xpa-fe1 (esunmail [129.147.58.120]) by edgemail1.Central.Sun.COM (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.08 (built Dec 6 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HAB00IBC99751@edgemail1.Central.Sun.COM> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:12:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from IO.COM ([12.235.55.86]) by mail.sun.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.08 (built Dec 6 2002)) with ESMTPSA id <0HAB006PC9965K@mail.sun.net> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:12:43 -0700 (MST) From: Jonathan Sergent Subject: Re: [9fans] iSCSI In-reply-to: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:12:41 -0800 On Thursday, Feb 13, 2003, at 12:08 US/Pacific, Ronald G. Minnich wrote: > Am I the only person in the world who can't figure out why anyone wants > iSCSI? I just can't get it to make sense. My brain just won't go near > it. I think the point is that it makes more sense than Fibre Channel. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 04:24:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 04:24:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17783 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 04:24:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17779 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 04:24:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 04:24:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0DB4719B08; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:24:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EB8D019AE8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:23:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h1EJNqBU032404 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:23:52 -0700 Received: (qmail 21733 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 12:23:52 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 12:23:52 -0700 Received: (qmail 3305 invoked by uid 3499); 14 Feb 2003 12:23:51 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 12:23:51 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] iSCSI In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:23:51 -0700 (MST) On Fri, 14 Feb 2003, Jonathan Sergent wrote: > On Thursday, Feb 13, 2003, at 12:08 US/Pacific, Ronald G. Minnich wrote: > > Am I the only person in the world who can't figure out why anyone wants > > iSCSI? I just can't get it to make sense. My brain just won't go near > > it. > > I think the point is that it makes more sense than Fibre Channel. I remember the saying now ... "damn with faint praise" right? ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 04:37:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 04:37:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17859 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 04:37:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17855 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 04:37:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 04:37:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8269619B1B; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:37:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6166C19B1A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:36:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h1DNSEu11543 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:29:18 -0600 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... In-Reply-To: <9aadcf5c61587fd7117a6e61b73f2ca7@mightycheese.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:28:14 -0600 (CST) On Thu, 13 Feb 2003, rob pike, esq. wrote: > > Why do YOU use Plan 9 and not Linux/FreeBSD? To answer that question see: http://open-forge.org > Despite all the cool features I like to show off when I give a demo, > the thing that most consistently drops jaws is the speed of > compilation. And only geeks care, and the VAST majority of users are -NOT- geeks. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 04:37:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 04:37:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17871 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 04:37:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17867 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 04:37:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 04:37:42 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2E96F19B28; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:37:23 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4710919AE8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:36:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h1DNPxM11532 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:27:03 -0600 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... In-Reply-To: <20030213155300.GB11548@littlegreenmen.armory.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:25:59 -0600 (CST) On Thu, 13 Feb 2003, Phil White wrote: > On Thu, Feb 13, 2003 at 04:43:40PM +0100, Boyd Roberts wrote: > > > > It's hard enough to believe we're running them _now_ ... > > > > You sound like a COBOL programmer around the turn of the century ; ) No, he sounds like a modern man being made to use COBOL tools from the turn of the century. I fully agree with his point. Commercial and social 'inertia' are -bad-. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 04:46:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 04:46:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17947 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 04:46:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17943 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 04:46:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 04:46:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E05CF19AE8; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:46:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 89A9519B25 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:45:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04445 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:45:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1EJjIM00898 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:45:18 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302141945.h1EJjIM00898@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:25:59 CST." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:45:17 -0500 > http://open-forge.org For a good time, call.... > And only geeks care, and the VAST majority of users are -NOT- geeks. That's okay, Plan 9 isn't designed for end users. Neither was Unix. > I fully agree with his point. Commercial and social 'inertia' are -bad-. This coming from a guy who seems to have never had an original thought in his life. How about this unoriginal cliche: ``put up or shut up.'' I have yet to see anything come out of, ``Hangar 18'' or ``Open Forge''. Hey, maybe you could rip off the IdeaLab! logo: OpenForge! You're just a snazzy dot-com office and a zucchini shack away from Chapter 11! For crying out loud, this guy has had his say, but hasn't produced a single thing. Can't we boot him off the mailing list now? Comic relief aside, his inanities are stale. Even Bushnell was better; at least he had technical knowledge. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 04:52:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 04:52:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18005 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 04:52:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18001 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 04:52:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 04:52:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EC22919B2E; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:52:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0A8CA19A17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:51:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05677 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:51:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1EJpsM00934 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:51:54 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302141951.h1EJpsM00934@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:28:14 CST." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:51:54 -0500 Jim Choad writes: > To answer that question see: > > http://open-forge.org Someone just asked me to show them the OpenForge! web site; I guess they wanted a good laugh. Unfortunately, it's not accepting connections from charon running under Inferno hosted on Plan 9 on port 80. Nice try, Jim. Better luck next time. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 04:57:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 04:57:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18041 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 04:57:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18037 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 04:57:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 04:57:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E653319B0E; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:57:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from riecilla.sotol.org (unknown [216.201.182.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4966819AFA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:56:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from linuxlink.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by riecilla.sotol.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEE188A4F5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 13:50:08 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3E4D4870.5020106@linuxlink.com> From: mike User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20030211 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.71.0.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 13:50:08 -0600 hmm I get connection refused. I am at a clients, maybe they have some weirdness going on. Jim Choate wrote: > http://open-forge.org > -- Michael H. Collins Admiral, Penguinista Navy http://riecilla.servebeer.com Fun http://mdrconsult.com Work 512-442-2009 512-656-9508 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 05:06:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 05:06:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18100 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 05:06:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18096 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 05:06:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 05:06:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 688C619B27; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 15:06:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.mdrconsult.com (mdrconsult.com [24.242.136.122]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F0DE19B25 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 15:05:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from george.home.org (cs6669202-179.austin.rr.com [66.69.202.179]) by mail.mdrconsult.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h1EK5A103690 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:05:11 -0600 Received: from doc (helo=localhost) by george.home.org with local-esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 18jm53-0006Cp-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:05:05 -0600 From: Doc Shipley To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... In-Reply-To: <3E4D4870.5020106@linuxlink.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:05:05 -0600 (CST) On Fri, 14 Feb 2003, mike wrote: > hmm I get connection refused. I am at a clients, maybe they have some > weirdness going on. Nope. Doesn't work from here either. I'm not shocked. Doc From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 05:17:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 05:17:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18192 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 05:17:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18188 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 05:17:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 05:17:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 26F7519B2C; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 15:17:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (mail.math.Princeton.EDU [128.112.18.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 314EC19B22 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 15:16:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from fine1008.math.princeton.edu (fine1008.math.princeton.edu [128.112.16.123]) by Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h1EKG6q16297 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 15:16:06 -0500 Received: from fine1008.math.princeton.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fine1008.math.princeton.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h1EKG6O26925 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 15:16:06 -0500 Message-Id: <200302142016.h1EKG6O26925@fine1008.math.princeton.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: John Stalker Subject: [9fans] Re: Install problems Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 15:16:05 -0500 > ok, but why partdisk can`t find my hard disk partitions? I don't know, so I was hoping someone else would suggest something. It would help to know a bit more about the hardware, though. Is this IDE or SCSI, one or more disks, etc. -- John Stalker Department of Mathematics Princeton University (609)258-6469 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 06:05:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 06:05:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18659 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 06:05:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18655 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 06:05:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 06:05:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 47684199ED; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:05:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from littlegreenmen.armory.com (littlegreenmen.armory.com [192.122.209.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 76D991998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:04:08 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 5247 invoked by uid 713); 14 Feb 2003 21:04:06 -0000 From: Phil White To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... Message-ID: <20030214210406.GA5203@littlegreenmen.armory.com> References: <200302141945.h1EJjIM00898@augusta.math.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200302141945.h1EJjIM00898@augusta.math.psu.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 13:04:06 -0800 On Fri, Feb 14, 2003 at 02:45:17PM -0500, Dan Cross wrote: > > http://open-forge.org > > For a good time, call.... I'll double the silent part of that. Nothing from Opera or Lynx under Linux. > > I fully agree with his point. Commercial and social 'inertia' are -bad-. Jim: So much for building to last? The COBOL bit was in reference to old COBOL code still in use in 2000 which 'needed' to be updated lest the sky fall. > For crying out loud, this guy has had his say, but hasn't produced > a single thing. Can't we boot him off the mailing list now? Comic > relief aside, his inanities are stale. Even Bushnell was better; at > least he had technical knowledge. Dan: I don't know what your history is with Jim, suffice it to say longer than I've been on the list (6 months perhaps?). In any case, the last I checked, he is apparently a fan of plan 9. So the bit about booting him from the list is kinda self-defeating. Besides, it's nice to hear that another plan 9 network apart from the one at the Armory exists. -Phil/CERisE From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 06:15:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 06:15:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18719 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 06:15:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18715 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 06:15:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 06:15:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D43F19A17; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:15:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (mail.math.Princeton.EDU [128.112.18.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 12F03199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:14:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from fine1008.math.princeton.edu (fine1008.math.princeton.edu [128.112.16.123]) by Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h1ELEiq20732 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:14:44 -0500 Received: from fine1008.math.princeton.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fine1008.math.princeton.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h1ELEiO26973 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:14:44 -0500 Message-Id: <200302142114.h1ELEiO26973@fine1008.math.princeton.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: John Stalker Subject: [9fans] open-forge Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:14:44 -0500 open-forge.org is pingable but refuses connections on port 80. It didn't always. netcraft shows it as running Apache on Suse, but no uptime data. If anyone else is curious, I was, you can see most of it in Google's cache. I'm not going to comment one way or the other about the contents, as I don't enjoy being flamed. -- John Stalker Department of Mathematics Princeton University (609)258-6469 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 06:17:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 06:17:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18745 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 06:17:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18741 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 06:17:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 06:17:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E109D19A2C; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:17:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 69A34199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:16:56 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 4512 invoked by uid 991); 14 Feb 2003 21:16:56 -0000 Message-ID: <20030214211656.4511.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] open-forge In-Reply-To: Message from John Stalker of "Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:14:44 EST." <200302142114.h1ELEiO26973@fine1008.math.princeton.edu> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:16:56 -0500 Good grief! Is it really necessary to go on and on about this? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 06:24:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 06:24:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18834 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 06:24:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18830 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 06:24:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 06:24:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BD3B7199F2; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:24:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E4753199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:23:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23767 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:23:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1ELNhM01639 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:23:43 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302142123.h1ELNhM01639@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] open-forge In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:14:44 EST." <200302142114.h1ELEiO26973@fine1008.math.princeton.edu> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:23:43 -0500 Okay, so let me get this straight; the guy who provides his web site in reponse to the question, ``why run Plan 9 instead of Linux/*BSD?'' is running his site off of Linux? Wow, that makes a *lot* of sense. Hey Choad, is this community stagnation? Netcraft says: ``We cannot tell you anything about this server, and have ignored it.'' I suggest the same for most Plan 9 users. Unless you're a geek and want to help Choad fix it, since he clearly can't do it himself. It's been down for over an hour. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 06:26:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 06:26:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18867 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 06:26:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18863 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 06:26:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 06:26:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E6D2B19A8F; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:26:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B93D9199A3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:25:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24162 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:25:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1ELPGM01655 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:25:16 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302142125.h1ELPGM01655@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] open-forge In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:16:56 EST." <20030214211656.4511.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:25:16 -0500 > Good grief! Is it really necessary to go on and on about this? Absolutely! It's amazing what a couple of bottles of wine will do for your prolificness as a writer. Despite that, I still manage a reasonable approximation to proper grammar. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 06:45:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 06:45:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19013 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 06:45:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19009 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 06:45:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 06:45:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C485819AA2; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:45:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EF21619A06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:44:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h1ELibqv011995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 13:44:42 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <00d8bfe4248be64085d960c056b8e059@centurytel.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... From: "Skip Tavakkolian" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 13:55:12 -0800 > Can't we boot him off the mailing list now? You want to declare him an enemy-combatant? I'd much rather ignore the unmentionable-one's rants than policing the list. Remember we've established that "tact sucks", and that goes for everyone. Perhaps 9fans motto should be: give us your rude, your fired, your tactless, your fuddled masses. ☺ A little love people, for Pete's sake. It is Valentine's day. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 06:47:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 06:47:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19034 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 06:47:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19030 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 06:47:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 06:47:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0A97C19A06; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:47:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from littlegreenmen.armory.com (littlegreenmen.armory.com [192.122.209.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 10380199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:46:04 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 5524 invoked by uid 0); 14 Feb 2003 21:46:03 -0000 From: Phil White To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] open-forge Message-ID: <20030214214603.GA5455@littlegreenmen.armory.com> References: <200302142114.h1ELEiO26973@fine1008.math.princeton.edu> <200302142123.h1ELNhM01639@augusta.math.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200302142123.h1ELNhM01639@augusta.math.psu.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 13:46:03 -0800 On Fri, Feb 14, 2003 at 04:23:43PM -0500, Dan Cross wrote: > Okay, so let me get this straight; the guy who provides his web site > in reponse to the question, ``why run Plan 9 instead of Linux/*BSD?'' > is running his site off of Linux? Wow, that makes a *lot* of sense. > Hey Choad, is this community stagnation? No, it's community infighting because one of its members apparently thinks it's productive. You're making a much better case for your removal from the list than Jim in my estimation. > I suggest the same for most Plan 9 users. Unless you're a geek and want > to help Choad fix it, since he clearly can't do it himself. It's been > down for over an hour. So might I ask when you'll have your own plan 9 site up? As near as I can tell, your plan 9 website has been down for an infinite amount of time. Don't bother trying to pull me into a flame war, by the way. I'm not wasting my time with further replies to you. -Phil/CERisE From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 06:59:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 06:59:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19102 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 06:59:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19098 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 06:59:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 06:59:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7297A19A81; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:59:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.mdrconsult.com (mdrconsult.com [24.242.136.122]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 41EEF19AA9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:58:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from george.home.org (cs6669202-179.austin.rr.com [66.69.202.179]) by mail.mdrconsult.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h1ELwE104559 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 15:58:14 -0600 Received: from doc (helo=localhost) by george.home.org with local-esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 18jnqT-0006gE-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 15:58:09 -0600 From: Doc Shipley To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... In-Reply-To: <00d8bfe4248be64085d960c056b8e059@centurytel.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 15:58:09 -0600 (CST) On Fri, 14 Feb 2003, Skip Tavakkolian wrote: > > Can't we boot him off the mailing list now? > > You want to declare him an enemy-combatant? > > I'd much rather ignore the unmentionable-one's rants > than policing the list. Remember we've established > that "tact sucks", and that goes for everyone. I'd vote for that. By the time anybody gets to this list, they aren't likely to be put off by raving and misinformation. Doc From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 07:07:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 07:07:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19170 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 07:07:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19166 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 07:07:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 07:07:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CDCA519ABF; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 17:07:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lcd.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9BC0619AB5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 17:06:29 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 38119 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 22:18:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO kike) (192.168.1.101) by 192.168.1.102 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 22:18:06 -0000 Message-ID: <00f901c2d475$53f82a30$6501a8c0@kike> From: "matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [9fans] anyone in Brisbane / Sydney / Tokyo Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 22:06:30 -0000 Hi, I'm off on my travels on Tuesday. Flying to Brisbane via Tokyo. I'll only be in Tokyo to transfer flights. I'll be in Brisbane from then until 18th March [staying in Surfers Paradise] but on the way back I get a stopover in Sydney & enough time in Tokyo to leave the airport. Anyone in the area prepared to put up with my company at all? Particularly in Brisbane. I'm travelling alone but meeting up with my parents in Brisbane. I'm not trying to get accommodation, all that's sorted but I've got a month in Brisbane to spend and I'll probably miss my geekiness. I've heard Australia has a strange phenomenon called "sunshine" which makes me a bit nervous ;) I'll have my iPaq with me [complete with a Wavelan - thank you ebay] so I won't be totally native. oh, btw. please don't burgle me while I'm away. Matt From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 07:13:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 07:13:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19211 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 07:13:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19207 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 07:13:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 07:13:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 67C1B19AB2; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 17:13:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailhost.det3.ameritech.net (mailhost2-sfldmi.sfldmi.ameritech.net [206.141.193.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4E08A19AC3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 17:12:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from ameritech.net ([67.38.15.139]) by mailhost.det3.ameritech.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with ESMTP id <20030214221221.HNOK176.mailhost.det3.ameritech.net@ameritech.net> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 17:12:21 -0500 Message-ID: <3E4D699D.9080204@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] anyone in Brisbane / Sydney / Tokyo References: <00f901c2d475$53f82a30$6501a8c0@kike> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 17:11:41 -0500 > > >I've heard Australia has a strange phenomenon called "sunshine" which makes >me a bit nervous ;) > Wary with the woggs and the Funnel Webs, mate. >oh, btw. please don't burgle me while I'm away. > Its not like I can promise anything... Don From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 07:17:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 07:17:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19238 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 07:17:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19234 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 07:17:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 07:17:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC18319AC0; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 17:17:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lcd.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id D1D4219AAD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 17:16:45 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 38158 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 22:28:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO kike) (192.168.1.101) by 192.168.1.102 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 22:28:23 -0000 Message-ID: <012a01c2d476$c3b629c0$6501a8c0@kike> From: "matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200302142123.h1ELNhM01639@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] open-forge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 22:16:47 -0000 my ISP [ntl] actually returns a document that starts Last Edited: 05/05/2002 Open Forge is a work in progress. Expect change, refresh your browser often. using a better ISP : Making HTTP connection to open-forge.org Alert!: Unable to connect to remote host. lynx: Can't access startfile http://open-forge.org/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 08:24:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 08:24:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19846 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 08:24:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19842 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 08:24:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 08:24:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7096719AC1; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 18:24:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 873A619A2D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 18:23:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26361 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 18:23:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1ENNBM02060 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 18:23:11 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302142323.h1ENNBM02060@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] open-forge In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 14 Feb 2003 13:46:03 PST." <20030214214603.GA5455@littlegreenmen.armory.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 18:23:11 -0500 > > Okay, so let me get this straight; the guy who provides his web site > > in reponse to the question, ``why run Plan 9 instead of Linux/*BSD?'' > > is running his site off of Linux? Wow, that makes a *lot* of sense. > > Hey Choad, is this community stagnation? > > No, it's community infighting because one of its members apparently > thinks it's productive. I think that Jim Choate would take exception to being labeled part of the 9fans community. He's tried *very* hard to distance himself from that community. > You're making a much better case for your > removal from the list than Jim in my estimation. How's that? Because I object to the ramblings of an obvious polemist? Look, you said you're relatively new to the list. May I suggest you look at the archives before interjecting yourself into an argument involving Choate? > > I suggest the same for most Plan 9 users. Unless you're a geek and want > > to help Choad fix it, since he clearly can't do it himself. It's been > > down for over an hour. > > So might I ask when you'll have your own plan 9 site up? As near as I > can tell, your plan 9 website has been down for an infinite amount of > time. I'm writing this under Plan 9 right now. I wasn't aware that ``web sites'' were the only function of the system. > Don't bother trying to pull me into a flame war, by the way. I'm not > wasting my time with further replies to you. Thanks. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 08:29:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 08:29:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19886 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 08:29:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19882 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 08:29:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 08:29:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 47D0619AB0; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 18:29:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailhost.det3.ameritech.net (mailhost2-sfldmi.sfldmi.ameritech.net [206.141.193.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6699719A9C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 18:28:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from ameritech.net ([67.38.15.139]) by mailhost.det3.ameritech.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with ESMTP id <20030214232855.IMHW176.mailhost.det3.ameritech.net@ameritech.net> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 18:28:55 -0500 Message-ID: <3E4D7B8F.2080809@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] open-forge References: <200302142323.h1ENNBM02060@augusta.math.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 18:28:15 -0500 "When 9fans Attack" - FOX2 Detroit @10:00pm EST Moderated by Montel Williams. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 09:00:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 09:00:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20269 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 09:00:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20265 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 09:00:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 09:00:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A9A619AC3; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 19:00:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lcd.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2D42719AB5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 18:59:24 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 38365 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 00:11:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO 192.168.1.102) (maht@192.168.1.103) by 192.168.1.102 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 00:11:04 -0000 From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] anyone in Brisbane / Sydney / Tokyo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_unique-boundary-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20030214235924.2D42719AB5@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 23:59 -0000 ------=_unique-boundary-1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >Wary with the woggs and the Funnel Webs, mate. I will >>oh, btw. please don't burgle me while I'm away. >Its not like I can promise anything... I just realised that the vita nuova people know my address from sending me my stuff. I hope they don't need the money ;) M ------=_unique-boundary-1-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 09:02:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 09:02:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20316 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 09:02:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20312 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 09:02:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 09:02:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 03CB719ACC; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 19:02:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailhost.det2.ameritech.net (mailhost1-sfldmi.sfldmi.ameritech.net [206.141.193.105]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B635219AA8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 19:01:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from ameritech.net ([67.38.15.139]) by mailhost.det2.ameritech.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with ESMTP id <20030215000135.SAIS8853.mailhost.det2.ameritech.net@ameritech.net> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 19:01:35 -0500 Message-ID: <3E4D8337.9030707@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] anyone in Brisbane / Sydney / Tokyo References: <20030214235924.2D42719AB5@mail.cse.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 19:00:55 -0500 > > >I just realised that the vita nuova people know my address from >sending me my stuff. I hope they don't need the money ;) > Haha, you might come home to find all your HDDs have been formatted for Inferno =-o! > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 09:10:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 09:10:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20471 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 09:10:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20467 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 09:10:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 09:10:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 94EDA19AA9; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 19:10:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C9C2F19A9C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 19:09:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h1F03Lj20925 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 18:03:21 -0600 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <200302142114.h1ELEiO26973@fine1008.math.princeton.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Re: open-forge Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 18:03:21 -0600 (CST) On Fri, 14 Feb 2003, John Stalker wrote: > open-forge.org is pingable but refuses connections on port 80. It didn't > always. It didn't always what? I suspect it's because Apache isn't back up yet. There was storm damage upstream yesterday (of some sort) and I'm not sure of status. I'll check on it later tonite and get it back up. It's not where I am so I can't do maintenance on it quickly (not my job anyway). > I'm not going to comment one way or the other about the contents, as I don't > enjoy being flamed. Wimp. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 09:12:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 09:12:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20517 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 09:12:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20513 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 09:12:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 09:12:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D25319AD1; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 19:12:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E732119ACB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 19:11:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h1F06Bx20966; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 18:06:11 -0600 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: , In-Reply-To: <200302142123.h1ELNhM01639@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Re: open-forge Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 18:06:11 -0600 (CST) On Fri, 14 Feb 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > Okay, so let me get this straight; the guy who provides his web site > in reponse to the question, ``why run Plan 9 instead of Linux/*BSD?'' > is running his site off of Linux? Yep, and it isn't 'my site' (my site is SSZ and it also runs off Linux). OS bigots we are not. I suspect we've got about a dozen OS'es cranked up right now on various machines. > Wow, that makes a *lot* of sense. Actually it does, once you get over your hurt feelings. > Hey Choad, is this community stagnation? How childish. > to help Choad fix it, since he clearly can't do it himself. It's been > down for over an hour. Dan, you're a putz and a perfect example of the problem with this end of the community. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 09:21:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 09:21:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20755 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 09:21:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20751 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 09:21:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 09:21:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE4CC19ACB; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 19:21:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7CA6319AAE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 19:20:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA11593 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 19:20:29 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) id h1F0KSe02341; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 19:20:28 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302150020.h1F0KSe02341@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <00d8bfe4248be64085d960c056b8e059@centurytel.net> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 19:20:28 -0500 (EST) In article <00d8bfe4248be64085d960c056b8e059@centurytel.net> you write: >> Can't we boot him off the mailing list now? > >You want to declare him an enemy-combatant? I thought he'd declared himself an enemy combatant? >I'd much rather ignore the unmentionable-one's rants >than policing the list. Remember we've established >that "tact sucks", and that goes for everyone. Perhaps you're right. >Perhaps 9fans motto should be: give us your rude, your fired, >your tactless, your fuddled masses. This reminds me of Parris Island. I'll be good to go. Oo rah. Corps, country, God. >A little love people, for Pete's sake. It is Valentine's day. My girlfriend just told me, ``a little love, and a little civility, goes a long damn way.'' Maybe you're right. Have some chocolate, everyone! - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 12:00:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 12:00:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24290 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 12:00:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24286 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 12:00:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 12:00:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F2A719A08; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 22:00:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [64.71.129.86]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BA65019A9C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 21:59:37 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 94FEB66B26; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 18:56:41 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs administration: how do people update multi-user fs? Message-ID: <20030215025641.GK73079@cassie.foobarbaz.net> References: <200302141502.h1EF2sr12679@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> <20030214173349.B9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030214173349.B9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 18:56:41 -0800 On Fri, Feb 14, 2003 at 05:33:50PM +0200, Lucio De Re wrote: > On Fri, Feb 14, 2003 at 10:16:47AM -0500, Russ Cox wrote: > > > > I removed the -u flag from /dist/replica/network > > and just run as me. Since I'm in group sys I have > > permissions enough to do a pull. There's no need > > for allowing. > > > You can't create new files, though, and assign them sys as owner or > special permissions. Unless of course you manage to log in as "sys". Why do you need to assign them to be owned by sys? I find it better to be owned by the person that made the changes. Better for tracking who made changes to what last. -- Christopher Nielsen - Metal-wielding pyro techie madhatter@teaparty.org "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 12:04:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 12:04:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24397 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 12:04:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24393 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 12:04:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 12:04:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DAC3C19AD0; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 22:04:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-227.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.227]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 75AAB19AC8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 22:03:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs administration: how do people update multi-user fs? From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <20030215025641.GK73079@cassie.foobarbaz.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 19:03:36 -0800 `ls -m' will tell you who last modified a file; there's no need for ownership to also tell you that. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 12:14:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 12:14:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24591 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 12:14:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24587 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 12:14:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 12:14:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3198419AD8; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 22:14:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B33BF19AD5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 22:13:16 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 7557 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 03:13:16 -0000 Received: from roke.cse.psu.edu (HELO bio.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.12.14) by galapagos.cse.psu.edu with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 03:13:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 24241 invoked by uid 991); 15 Feb 2003 03:13:16 -0000 Message-ID: <20030215031316.24240.qmail@f.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs administration: how do people update multi-user fs? In-Reply-To: Message from Christopher Nielsen of "Fri, 14 Feb 2003 18:56:41 PST." <20030215025641.GK73079@cassie.foobarbaz.net> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 22:13:15 -0500 | Why do you need to assign them to be owned by sys? | I find it better to be owned by the person that | made the changes. Better for tracking who made | changes to what last. The fileserver has a field for last-person; that's a different idea than owner. On a system with lots of users, maybe you want important files to be owned by a virtual user in case one of the humans leaves and their account gets deleted or otherwise needs to have it's power reduced. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 12:28:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 12:28:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24892 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 12:28:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24888 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 12:28:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 12:28:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 96E0C19ADF; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 22:28:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-227.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.227]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8DAE019ADC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 22:27:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <449b922076a2122f384b55b3e3f1aead@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <98b94a6949552dc3aa03d60ef4d245ef@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 19:27:32 -0800 Yes, one can cite individual complaints about 6th edition, but my point was that in 1975 or 1976, compared to the other systems of the day, Unix *seemed* *to me*, as a user, virtually free of arbitrary limits. I could create directories beneath my home directory to a depth greater than 6 (unlike, say, TOPS-10 and perhaps, later, VMS), indeed to arbitrary depth (yes, I'd run the file system out of blocks or i-nodes eventually, but at least the system didn't pick a pseudo-random constant like `6'). I could create files with names that weren't 6+3 upper-case alphanumerics, unlike most, if not all, DEC operating systems and others influenced by them. 14 (ASCII) characters per component seemed most generous and I can't recall needing more. The exec argument limit was an implementation artifact of a small machine, and has been increased repeatedly over the years, unlike the limits mentioned above, which couldn't be changed without harming binary compatibility with existing programs. 8-bit userids were a result of parsimonious choice of the `char' data type on a small machine, not somebody saying `Let's limit the number of users to 169 just to be arbitrary and a pain', and the size of userids has been increased over the years. Reading through section II of the 6th edition manual (the system call interface), about the only arbitrary limits (perhaps I should say capricious; those that are not just a consequence of the size of some data type) that I can see are the maximum number of open files per process and, arguably, various output delays in STTY(II). This was not true of the system call interfaces of most other systems of the day (not to mention programming language implementations), where it was normal to find a general mechanism described, followed by a limitation to some capricious number, usually small enough to seriously limit the utility of the mechanism, and often further reducible by the system administrator during system configuration, so you couldn't even count on the miserly nominal limit in the documentation. Quoting Armando Stettner of DEC (from memory), ``Unix isn't a police-state operating system.''. And (returning to the question of why I use Plan 9) the feeling I got reading the CACM Unix paper appeared again when reading about Plan 9 circa 1991. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 13:42:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 13:42:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26290 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 13:42:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26286 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 13:42:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 13:42:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 13F0819AE4; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 23:42:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [64.71.129.86]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B9D2199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 23:41:19 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id E4B6466B24; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 20:38:27 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs administration: how do people update multi-user fs? Message-ID: <20030215043827.GN73079@cassie.foobarbaz.net> References: <20030215025641.GK73079@cassie.foobarbaz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 20:38:27 -0800 On Fri, Feb 14, 2003 at 07:03:36PM -0800, Geoff Collyer wrote: > > `ls -m' will tell you who last modified a file; there's no need for > ownership to also tell you that. Oh! Very cool. I did not know that. That's what I get for not reading the man page. :-) -- Christopher Nielsen - Metal-wielding pyro techie "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 13:43:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 13:43:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26305 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 13:43:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26300 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 13:43:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 13:43:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9B23C19AD4; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 23:43:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [64.71.129.86]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9A34A19AE3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 23:42:45 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id AFB8466B27; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 20:39:54 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs administration: how do people update multi-user fs? Message-ID: <20030215043954.GO73079@cassie.foobarbaz.net> References: <20030215025641.GK73079@cassie.foobarbaz.net> <20030215031316.24240.qmail@f.bio.cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030215031316.24240.qmail@f.bio.cse.psu.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 20:39:54 -0800 On Fri, Feb 14, 2003 at 10:13:15PM -0500, Scott Schwartz wrote: > > The fileserver has a field for last-person; that's a different idea > than owner. > > On a system with lots of users, maybe you want important files to be > owned by a virtual user in case one of the humans leaves and their > account gets deleted or otherwise needs to have it's power reduced. Very good point. -- Christopher Nielsen - Metal-wielding pyro techie "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 13:49:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 13:49:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26400 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 13:49:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26396 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 13:49:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 13:49:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0330F19AE6; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 23:49:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from thefrayedknot.armory.com (thefrayedknot.armory.com [192.122.209.39]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9587219AE3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 23:48:46 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 31458 invoked by uid 1000); 15 Feb 2003 04:48:45 -0000 From: Andrew To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs administration: how do people update multi-user fs? Message-ID: <20030215044845.GA31452@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030215025641.GK73079@cassie.foobarbaz.net> <20030215031316.24240.qmail@f.bio.cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030215031316.24240.qmail@f.bio.cse.psu.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 20:48:45 -0800 > On a system with lots of users, maybe you want important files to be > owned by a virtual user in case one of the humans leaves and their > account gets deleted or otherwise needs to have it's power reduced. > perhaps an update (not root) account specifically for updating would work? Im gearing up to get my system worked out and am not sure what would be the best way to do all this either. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 14:02:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 14:02:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26625 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 14:02:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26621 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 14:02:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 14:02:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E7C1819AF2; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 00:02:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.fywss.com (mail.nevex.com [207.245.2.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6C14319ADA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 00:01:05 -0500 (EST) Received: (from steve@localhost) by smtp.fywss.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h1F513530065 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 00:01:03 -0500 From: Steve Kotsopoulos Message-Id: <200302150501.h1F513530065@smtp.fywss.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] [reminder] pointer to Plan 9 FAQ Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 00:01:03 -0500 The Plan 9 faq is posted to comp.os.plan9 at the beginning of each month. It is also at news.answers archive sites, look for comp-os/plan9-faq The latest hypertext version of the faq is available at url http://www.fywss.com/plan9/plan9faq.html From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 15:30:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 15:30:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27778 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 15:30:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27774 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 15:30:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 15:30:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6033219AAE; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 01:30:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6EB2B19A9C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 01:29:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h1F6TtRV018995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 23:29:55 -0700 Received: (qmail 26316 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2003 23:29:55 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 23:29:55 -0700 Received: (qmail 7081 invoked by uid 3499); 14 Feb 2003 23:29:55 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 14 Feb 2003 23:29:55 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... In-Reply-To: <449b922076a2122f384b55b3e3f1aead@collyer.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 23:29:55 -0700 (MST) On Fri, 14 Feb 2003, Geoff Collyer wrote: > Yes, one can cite individual complaints about 6th edition, but my > point was that in 1975 or 1976, compared to the other systems of the > day, Unix *seemed* *to me*, as a user, virtually free of arbitrary > limits. exactly. One funny thing I remember is how controversial the idea of a tree-structured file system was. I couldn't find anyone who likd it, as it was obviously an inefficient fad. And how about the whole obviously ridiculous idea of a user-mode command interpreter, and the bizarre concept of forking a new process for things such as date and ls! outrageous! Inefficient! unworkable on "real" systems! Unix was such a breath of fresh air back then. Kind of the way Plan 9 feels. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 15:51:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 15:51:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28263 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 15:51:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28259 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 15:51:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 15:51:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0611219AF6; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 01:51:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.146]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8681519AED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 01:50:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.140]) by mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20030215065024.LTVX1199.mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 19:50:24 +1300 Received: from [210.54.110.36] by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20030215065023.KKZO27364.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.54.110.36]> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 19:50:23 +1300 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... From: "Andrew Simmons" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20030215065023.KKZO27364.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.54.110.36]> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 19:47:54 +1300 Apart from the excellent reasons for using Plan 9 given in previous posts, there is also the reason given by Swiss Tony from "The Fast Show": "Using Plan 9 is ... very much like making love to a beautiful woman. First you take her on a trip to rio, then you make sure that the plumbing is all in working order, find an appropriate mount point, and then you're up and running. If you're adventurous - like me - you might like to try a union mount." From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 18:40:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 18:40:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30918 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 18:40:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30914 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 18:40:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 18:40:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A7E8F19ADA; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 04:40:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from infocom.km.ua (infocom.km.ua [195.230.134.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9F386199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 04:39:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from kp.km.ua (root@kp.km.ua [217.196.174.2]) by infocom.km.ua (8.12.7/8.12.7/ic) with ESMTP id h1F9ctIR098316 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:38:56 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Received: from localhost.localdomain (dialup03.kp.km.ua [217.196.174.18]) by kp.km.ua (kp.km.ua/8.12.6/kp-branch) with SMTP id h1F9coTc068479 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:38:53 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" From: "A.S. Kukhar" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Install problems X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] References: <200302142016.h1EKG6O26925@fine1008.math.princeton.edu> In-Reply-To: <200302142016.h1EKG6O26925@fine1008.math.princeton.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <03021511283201.00581@localhost.localdomain> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:38:48 -0500 i have single 40 Gb SAMSUNG SP4002H (7200RPM)U/D100 HDD it`s on Primary IDE Master (CDROM is on Secondary IDE Master) what else, i made plan9 FAT partition (logical) on hda7 > I don't know, so I was hoping someone else would suggest > something. It would help to know a bit more about the > hardware, though. Is this IDE or SCSI, one or more > disks, etc. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 18:40:54 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 18:40:54 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30925 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 18:40:54 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30921 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 18:40:54 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 18:40:54 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6E70E19AFA; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 04:40:22 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cthulhu.dircon.co.uk (host217-44-92-127.range217-44.btcentralplus.com [217.44.92.127]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1DA0A199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 04:39:20 -0500 (EST) Received: (from digbyt@localhost) by cthulhu.dircon.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA04948 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 09:39:13 GMT Message-Id: <200302150939.JAA04948@cthulhu.dircon.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... In-Reply-To: <449b922076a2122f384b55b3e3f1aead@collyer.net> from Geoff Collyer at "Feb 14, 2003 07:27:32 pm" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Digby Tarvin X-Face: &(//%&/WHJk7>_lW'@YYeED-qsdBV8&h3_Hpn/0.9_=}vTk}5u/2l=Mx&rX!\.i9X{(S@nk[we'a|IX#|?jmh`(j}a+\C5/> %DpYTPd<7jF2V b[Z.TjttL[FMm_$Z$^#qd62A:T.qw7}0S\o.Or_|I 2t~t0D=eCU"S?ls%(Ro X-Pgp-Key-Fingerprint: 61 E7 39 FE 4A F4 CA F3 F5 5E BB 45 26 EC 36 3C X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL70 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: digbyt@acm.org (Digby Tarvin) List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 09:39:12 +0000 (GMT/BST) > Yes, one can cite individual complaints about 6th edition, but my > point was that in 1975 or 1976, compared to the other systems of the > day, Unix *seemed* *to me*, as a user, virtually free of arbitrary > limits. I don't recall any arbitrary limits in 6th edition. At UNSW we had well over 256 users - achieved (in our case) by sacrificing group ownership of files. In my opinion, having access to well written and maintainable source is the ultimate in freedom from arbitrary (or otherwise) limits. Source availability is more common these days, but Plan9's is the only one that is a pleasure to delve into, the way Edition 6 was back in its day. Regards, DigbyT -- Digby R. S. Tarvin digbyt@acm.org http://www.cthulhu.dircon.co.uk From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 18:50:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 18:50:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31053 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 18:50:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31049 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 18:50:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 18:50:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 81A5619B06; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 04:50:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 77EDB19AFE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 04:49:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1F9nVmt028971 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:49:32 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h1F9nVhY028970 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:49:31 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs administration: how do people update multi-user fs? Message-ID: <20030215114930.C9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200302141502.h1EF2sr12679@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> <20030214173349.B9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <20030215025641.GK73079@cassie.foobarbaz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <20030215025641.GK73079@cassie.foobarbaz.net>; from Christopher Nielsen on Fri, Feb 14, 2003 at 06:56:41PM -0800 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:49:31 +0200 On Fri, Feb 14, 2003 at 06:56:41PM -0800, Christopher Nielsen wrote: > > Why do you need to assign them to be owned by sys? > I find it better to be owned by the person that > made the changes. Better for tracking who made > changes to what last. > Tidiness and public release. And the new history(1) command records the last change eefector anyway. I get a little uncomfortable when a file in an archive is owned by "rob" and there is no "rob" in my /adm/users. I do appreciate that this gets corrected, but having files owned by "none" as a result is even more disconcerting. And difficult to fix. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 23:19:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 23:19:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1939 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 23:19:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1935 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 23:19:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 23:19:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4FE3319AB7; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 09:19:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A23A819AB7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 09:18:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <11f738f5d2a818ed41e56c96688f8196@plan9.bell-labs.com> X-Plan9-Fortune: If it doesn't matter, it does not matter. From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs administration: how do people update multi-user fs? In-Reply-To: <20030215114930.C9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 09:18:09 -0500 > I get a little uncomfortable when a file in an archive is owned by > "rob" and there is no "rob" in my /adm/users. I do appreciate that > this gets corrected, but having files owned by "none" as a result is > even more disconcerting. And difficult to fix. I'm not sure what you're talking about. If you pull with the -u flag in your scripts, then copied files will be owned by sys, despite being owned by rob or whoever on sources. If you don't have it, they'll be owned by lucio or whoever runs pull. In no case should you end up with files owned by rob or by none. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 15 23:32:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 15 23:32:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2254 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Feb 2003 23:32:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2250 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2003 23:32:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Feb 2003 23:32:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9C41519AB9; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 09:32:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 99534199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 09:31:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h1FEUnt15141 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 09:30:50 -0500 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] presentation preparation Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 09:30:49 -0500 (EST) I'm working on a presentation and am wondering what approach other 9'ers take to preparing slides. I'm thinking a full screen page(1) would be sufficient and I could use the extant doc prep tools I'm becoming increasingly familiar with. Tips, tricks, and/or suggestions are welcomed. Cheers, Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 16 00:30:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 16 00:30:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2893 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Feb 2003 00:30:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2889 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2003 00:30:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Feb 2003 00:30:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C84C199BB; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 10:30:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 793A6199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 10:29:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1FFTQmt029323 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:29:29 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h1FFTOGN029322 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:29:24 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs administration: how do people update multi-user fs? Message-ID: <20030215172922.H9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030215114930.C9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <11f738f5d2a818ed41e56c96688f8196@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <11f738f5d2a818ed41e56c96688f8196@plan9.bell-labs.com>; from Russ Cox on Sat, Feb 15, 2003 at 09:18:09AM -0500 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:29:22 +0200 On Sat, Feb 15, 2003 at 09:18:09AM -0500, Russ Cox wrote: > > In no case should you end up with files owned by rob or by none. > In the more general case of unwinding an archive such as tar files, I'm sure I've had situations where a non-existent user was translated to "none". But I've had so many dicky installations of Plan 9, from 2ed to the present, that I could have been hoisting myself on my own petard. Still, I have seen odd situations, so I'm sure the warning is not unjustified. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 16 00:47:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 16 00:47:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3096 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Feb 2003 00:47:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3092 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2003 00:47:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Feb 2003 00:47:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A74FF19ADD; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 10:47:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8D11919ABD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 10:46:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1FFk7mt029354 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:46:07 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h1FFk6Lm029353 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:46:06 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <20030215174605.I9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us Organization: Proxima Research & Development Subject: [9fans] Ugly hack Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:46:05 +0200 An ugly hack to Tom Duff's little jewel, rc(1). I've found the ability to limit shell command line argument expansion (only in English can one write something so succintly and so ugly) to directories rather than all directory entries by suffixing the last part with a "/". This is normal behaviour in the NetBSD shells. For example: broken! lc mkfile rdesktop-1.1.0.tar trim openldap-2.0.22 rx-1.5 trim.c rdesktop-1.1.0 term.8 trim.out broken! cd rdesk* Usage: cd [directory] broken! echo rdesk* rdesktop-1.1.0 rdesktop-1.1.0.tar broken! cd rdesk*/ broken! pwd /usr/lucio/Projects/Sundry/rdesktop-1.1.0 broken! Note how the trailing slash allows me to supply the cd command with a single argument. I have hacked plan9.c, glob.c and fns.h in /sys/src/cmd/rc to achive this and I'd appreciate some feedback: is this useful to anyone else? Does it work properly (I have tested a few limit cases, but I'm not sure Ive covered all possibilities)? The patch is not vast, it largely required modifying the Readdir() function to be rearranged and I'd appreciate comments on possible improvements to my choice of coding. All comments (not flames) appreciated. I hope my sources for rc(1) are not too far out of date. term% diff plan9.c `{yesterday plan9.c} 321c321 < int Readdir(int f, char *p, int dironly) --- > int Readdir(int f, char *p) 326,345c326,334 < for (;;) { < if (dir[f].i==dir[f].n){ /* read */ < free(dir[f].dbuf); < dir[f].i=0; < dir[f].dbuf=0; < if ((n=dirread(f, &dir[f].dbuf)) <= 0){ < dir[f].n=0; < return 0; < } else < dir[f].n=n; < } < while(dir[f].i if(dir[f].i==dir[f].n){ /* read */ > free(dir[f].dbuf); > dir[f].dbuf=0; > n=dirread(f, &dir[f].dbuf); > if(n>=0) > dir[f].n=n; > else > dir[f].n=0; > dir[f].i=0; 347c336,340 < return 0; --- > if(dir[f].i==dir[f].n) > return 0; > strcpy(p, dir[f].dbuf[dir[f].i].name); > dir[f].i++; > return 1; term% diff glob.c `{yesterday glob.c} 37c37 < void globdir(char *p, char *namep, int dironly) --- > void globdir(char *p, char *namep) 64c64 < /* read the directory and recurse for any entry that matches */ --- > /* read the directory and recur for any entry that matches */ 68,69c68 < // print ("D: %s\n", dironly?"yes":"no"); < while(Readdir(f, namep, dironly)){ --- > while(Readdir(f, namep)){ 72c71 < globdir(newp, t, dironly); --- > globdir(newp, t); 84d82 < int dironly; 93,99c91 < dironly=strlen(p)-1; < // print ("G: '%s(%d)'\n", p, dironly); < if (dironly>0 && p[dironly]=='/'){ < dironly=1; < } else < dironly=0; < globdir(p, globname, dironly); --- > globdir(p, globname); term% diff fns.h `{yesterday fns.h} 16c16 < int Readdir(int, char*, int); --- > int Readdir(int, char*); From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 16 00:54:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 16 00:54:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3167 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Feb 2003 00:54:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3163 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2003 00:54:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Feb 2003 00:54:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EBEFC1998A; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 10:54:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0725719AA8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 10:53:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp ([61.211.130.19]) by ar; Sun Feb 16 00:53:41 JST 2003 Subject: Re: [9fans] fs administration: how do people update multi-user fs? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20030215025641.GK73079@cassie.foobarbaz.net> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 00:53:40 +0900 On Fri, Feb 14, 2003 at 10:16:47AM -0500, Russ Cox wrote: > > I removed the -u flag from /dist/replica/network > and just run as me. Since I'm in group sys I have > permissions enough to do a pull. There's no need > for allowing. > I would like to agree with Russ but some old files have permissions: --rw-r--r-- M 161 sys sys 24982 Dec 12 1999 troff/FIXES --rw-r--r-- M 161 sys sys 1168 Dec 12 1999 troff/README --rw-r--r-- M 161 sys sys 9115 Dec 12 1999 troff/dwbinit.c --rw-r--r-- M 161 sys sys 491 Dec 12 1999 troff/dwbinit.h --rwxr-xr-x M 161 sys sys 15 Dec 12 1999 troff/find Kenji Arisawa From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 16 01:01:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 16 01:01:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3329 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Feb 2003 01:01:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3325 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2003 01:01:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Feb 2003 01:01:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5B49E19B00; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:01:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 902B419AF4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:00:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1FG0emt029400 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 18:00:41 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h1FG0d7R029399 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 18:00:39 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs administration: how do people update multi-user fs? Message-ID: <20030215180039.J9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030215025641.GK73079@cassie.foobarbaz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from Kenji Arisawa on Sun, Feb 16, 2003 at 12:53:40AM +0900 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 18:00:39 +0200 On Sun, Feb 16, 2003 at 12:53:40AM +0900, Kenji Arisawa wrote: > > > I would like to agree with Russ but some old files have permissions: > --rw-r--r-- M 161 sys sys 24982 Dec 12 1999 troff/FIXES > --rw-r--r-- M 161 sys sys 1168 Dec 12 1999 troff/README > --rw-r--r-- M 161 sys sys 9115 Dec 12 1999 troff/dwbinit.c > --rw-r--r-- M 161 sys sys 491 Dec 12 1999 troff/dwbinit.h > --rwxr-xr-x M 161 sys sys 15 Dec 12 1999 troff/find > I think that a special CPU/AUTH server with permission to speak for "sys" is called for. Altering the /lib/ndb/auth files is one option, another is to have a small host just for things like this. Or am I missing something? ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 16 01:20:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 16 01:20:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3594 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Feb 2003 01:20:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3590 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2003 01:20:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Feb 2003 01:20:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 89D7A19B05; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:20:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3230019AEA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:19:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h1FGIft15274 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:18:41 -0500 From: Sam X-Sender: To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Ugly hack In-Reply-To: <20030215174605.I9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:18:41 -0500 (EST) Would I were bothered by this, I'ld be more inclined towards: fn cdd { for(i) { if(test -d $i){ cd $i } } } Note there's a bug in this approach due to rc's for lacking a break equivalent, but it's unlikely to bite. Always better to use the tools than hack them if at all possible. Cheers, Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 16 01:21:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 16 01:21:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3627 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Feb 2003 01:21:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3623 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2003 01:21:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Feb 2003 01:21:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 36D7519AFE; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:21:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 49FDA19AFE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:20:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01281 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:20:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1FGKWM05663 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:20:32 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302151620.h1FGKWM05663@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs administration: how do people update multi-user fs? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 14 Feb 2003 20:48:45 PST." <20030215044845.GA31452@thefrayedknot.armory.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:20:32 -0500 > perhaps an update (not root) account specifically for updating would > work? Im gearing up to get my system worked out and am not sure what > would be the best way to do all this either. Why not just give sys a password and login as it when you need to do a pull? - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 16 01:22:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 16 01:22:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3640 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Feb 2003 01:22:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3636 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2003 01:22:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Feb 2003 01:22:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F280119B12; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:22:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F22D719B11 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:21:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01502 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:21:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1FGLwM05674 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:21:58 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302151621.h1FGLwM05674@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Ugly hack In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:18:41 EST." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:21:58 -0500 This is the type of think I use walk and sor for all the time: walk -d 1 . | sor 'test -d' Is basically the same as, ``echo */''. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 16 01:23:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 16 01:23:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3654 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Feb 2003 01:23:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3650 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2003 01:23:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Feb 2003 01:23:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0ADF819B19; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:23:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C15E619B18 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:22:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01629 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:22:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1FGMdM05690 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:22:39 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302151622.h1FGMdM05690@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs administration: how do people update multi-user fs? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 15 Feb 2003 18:00:39 +0200." <20030215180039.J9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:22:39 -0500 > I think that a special CPU/AUTH server with permission to speak for > "sys" is called for. Altering the /lib/ndb/auth files is one option, > another is to have a small host just for things like this. > > Or am I missing something? What's wrong with just logging in as sys, if that's what's desired? - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 16 01:27:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 16 01:27:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3714 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Feb 2003 01:27:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3710 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2003 01:27:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Feb 2003 01:27:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4121119B1A; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:27:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 40CCE19B0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:26:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02104; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:26:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1FGQeM05724; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:26:40 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302151626.h1FGQeM05724@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: hangar18-general@open-forge.org, hell@einstein.ssz.com Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: open-forge In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 14 Feb 2003 18:06:11 CST." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:26:40 -0500 > Dan, you're a putz and a perfect example of the problem with this end of > the community. Okay, Jim, I'll throw you an olive branch. We all know what you find wrong with, ``this end of the community.'' You've stated that pretty clearly. But what I don't understand is what you'd like to see this end of the community turn into? Could you please explain that? Now, I'm really curious, so I'm really asking. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 16 01:30:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 16 01:30:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3765 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Feb 2003 01:30:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3761 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2003 01:30:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Feb 2003 01:30:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A2BC19B22; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:30:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2745419AC9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:29:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1FGTOmt029473 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 18:29:24 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h1FGTN7a029472 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 18:29:23 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Ugly hack Message-ID: <20030215182922.K9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030215174605.I9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from Sam on Sat, Feb 15, 2003 at 11:18:41AM -0500 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 18:29:22 +0200 On Sat, Feb 15, 2003 at 11:18:41AM -0500, Sam wrote: > > Would I were bothered by this, I'ld be more inclined > towards: > I get bitten by the presence of the tar file and extraction directory in the same place, with unholily long names. And, yes, RIO does help, but I use too much Unix to wean myself off old habits. > Always better to use the tools than hack them if at all > possible. > It's (hopefully) a transparent adjustment. And, even if possibly undocumented, a step towards conventional Unix behaviour. What I'm curious about, is where it may not be as transparent as I think. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 16 03:00:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 16 03:00:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4883 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Feb 2003 03:00:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4879 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2003 03:00:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Feb 2003 03:00:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0E5B619AEA; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 13:00:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 187A7199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 12:59:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sat Feb 15 12:59:03 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Sat Feb 15 12:59:00 EST 2003 Message-ID: <143b159ce7fb8b6650e3eccdd09ca7da@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs administration: how do people update multi-user fs? From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030215180039.J9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 12:58:56 -0500 arguably pull should know how to turn the write bits on and then turn them off again when changing a read-only file. i've been trying to catch files that aren't group writable and just fix the modes. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 16 04:38:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 16 04:38:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6227 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Feb 2003 04:38:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6223 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2003 04:38:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Feb 2003 04:38:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 959D5199B7; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 14:38:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id F2EFC19AC8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 14:37:47 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 11671 invoked by uid 991); 15 Feb 2003 19:37:47 -0000 Message-ID: <20030215193747.11670.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] presentation preparation In-Reply-To: Message from Sam of "Sat, 15 Feb 2003 09:30:49 EST." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 14:37:47 -0500 | I could use the extant doc prep | tools I'm becoming increasingly familiar | with. Not a Plan 9 specific answer, but... I rather like latex with the prosper package. Ideally it is used to make pdf, and can take advantage of acroread's features, but straight ps output should be usable. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 16 04:49:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 16 04:49:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6361 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Feb 2003 04:49:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6357 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2003 04:49:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Feb 2003 04:49:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7549819B0A; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 14:49:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 60A2519ACF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 14:48:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1FJmGLp061627 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 12:48:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca) Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with ESMTP id h1FJmGGd061624 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 12:48:16 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] presentation preparation In-Reply-To: <20030215193747.11670.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <20030215123941.K58372@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> References: <20030215193747.11670.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 12:48:16 -0700 (MST) We were discussing latex presentations on this list some time ago (Russ posted a fix to page to handle some mangled PostScript)... I've done fine with presenting pdf or ps in a full-screen 'page' window on a 1024x768 laptop screen... When talking about Plan 9 it is also useful to be able to hide the presentation screen and show a few examples right there on the spot, demo-style :) I've sent Sam a sample presentation already, but didn't want to bother the list with it. Another suggestion at the time was to use troff :) andrey On Sat, 15 Feb 2003, Scott Schwartz wrote: > | I could use the extant doc prep > | tools I'm becoming increasingly familiar > | with. > > Not a Plan 9 specific answer, but... I rather like latex with the > prosper package. Ideally it is used to make pdf, and can take advantage > of acroread's features, but straight ps output should be usable. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 16 05:50:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 16 05:50:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7066 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Feb 2003 05:50:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7062 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2003 05:50:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Feb 2003 05:50:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C55819AD5; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 15:50:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from hamnavoe (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3EF3019AC9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 15:49:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <7c5c452b3ef6d2d8d4bd72bdabed7411@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] presentation preparation From: Richard Miller In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 20:49:42 0000 > I'm working on a presentation and am > wondering what approach other 9'ers take > to preparing slides. I write slides in html [actually in a simpler syntax which is translated to html by an awk script] and use charon to display them. -- Richard From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 16 06:01:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 16 06:01:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7201 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Feb 2003 06:01:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7197 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2003 06:01:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Feb 2003 06:01:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D718D19AE2; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 16:01:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (mail.math.Princeton.EDU [128.112.18.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B3E9A19A9C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 16:00:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from math.Princeton.EDU (IDENT:MED/P8MXiHEcGCcILzrx0pQiV5lUBuV5@math.Princeton.EDU [128.112.18.16]) by Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h1FL07q30896 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 16:00:07 -0500 Received: from math.Princeton.EDU (IDENT:JIeqvfsGA0kpoODlYtYT3BIOFsUT/zRs@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by math.Princeton.EDU (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h1FL07G19084 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 16:00:07 -0500 Message-Id: <200302152100.h1FL07G19084@math.Princeton.EDU> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Install problems From: John Stalker Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 16:00:07 -0500 >i have single 40 Gb SAMSUNG SP4002H (7200RPM)U/D100 HDD >it`s on Primary IDE Master (CDROM is on Secondary IDE >Master) >what else, i made plan9 FAT partition (logical) on hda7 I don't suppose you a free primary partition on the disk? That might be the problem, or at least part of it. -- John Stalker Department of Mathematics Princeton University (609)258-6469 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 16 08:02:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 16 08:02:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8500 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Feb 2003 08:02:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8496 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2003 08:02:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Feb 2003 08:02:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 38A1919AC9; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 18:02:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 47B4019A27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 18:01:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24254 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 18:01:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1FN16M07647 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 18:01:06 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302152301.h1FN16M07647@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----- =_aaaaaaaaaa0" Content-ID: <7641.1045350044.0@augusta.math.psu.edu> From: Dan Cross Subject: [9fans] A modified version of /rc/bin/C Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 18:01:06 -0500 ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <7641.1045350044.1@augusta.math.psu.edu> A while back, I couldn't figure out why my `C' command couldn't find the consoles on my console server. Russ was quick to point out that I needed to mount /srv/consoles in namespace.$sysname. However, I didn't like that because it seemd like something one shouldn't *need* to do. Instead, I modified C to import '#s' from the console server, and mount '#s/consoles' directly on the client. I like this better, since C now works everywhere, without any sort of dependencies on the namespace from the server. Another thing that bothered me about /rc/bin/C was that one needed to modify it to explicitly set one's console server. That struck me as kind of bogus; shouldn't there be a more systematic way to do it? So today, I modified /rc/bin/C on my system to get the name of the console server using ndb/ipquery. This way, I can set up multiple console servers all over the network, and tell C where they are by putting console=foo paits into /lib/ndb/local and friends. This is much easier, in my opinion, than putting local policy into a script in /rc/bin. It also makes maintenance of C itself easier (not that it really needs to be maintained all that much; it's a pretty simple script). Using ndb/ipquery makes it sensative to what network I'm on, and allows me to set a default. Anyway, here's my version; Russ, how would you feel about putting this into the distribution? - Dan C. ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <7641.1045350044.2@augusta.math.psu.edu> #!/bin/rc rfork n switch($1){ case -r shift opt='' case * opt=-r } # change to console server # may want to use a switch on the # machine name to support multiple # console servers server=`{ndb/ipquery sys $1 console | sed 's/console=//'} if (~ $server '') server=$sysname if(! test -e /mnt/consoles/$1){ switch($sysname){ case $server mount /srv/consoles /mnt/consoles case * mntgen import $server '#s' /n/$server^srv mount /n/$server^srv/consoles /mnt/consoles } } if(! test -e /mnt/consoles/$1 && test -e /srv/consoles) mount /srv/consoles /mnt/consoles if(! test -e /mnt/consoles/$1){ echo console not found exit 'console not found' } con -l $opt /mnt/consoles/$1 ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa0-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 16 08:57:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 16 08:57:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9128 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Feb 2003 08:57:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9124 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2003 08:57:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Feb 2003 08:57:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1B85719A9C; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 18:57:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-227.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.227]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 249D81999B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 18:56:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0043a6a833ad0d4ab1079c5a650c3b23@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Ugly hack From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <20030215174605.I9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 15:56:28 -0800 echo */. would work on Unix, but on Plan 9 matches all files in the current directory (fallout from use of cleanname, perhaps?). However, echo */.. | sed 's;/\.\.($| ); ;g' does print just the names of the directories in the current directory. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 16 13:59:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 16 13:59:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13332 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Feb 2003 13:59:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13328 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2003 13:59:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Feb 2003 13:59:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4F24219AA8; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 23:59:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA1B2199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 23:58:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA09075 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 23:58:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1G4wlM08923 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 23:58:47 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302160458.h1G4wlM08923@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Dan Cross Subject: [9fans] Whither /sys/lib/ssl? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 23:58:47 -0500 The starttls support in smtpd had a small bug in it; instead of looking for the SMTP certificate in /sys/lib/tls, it was looking in the (seemingly older) /sys/lib/ssl. This is probably my fault, since I wrote that support originally; I can't remember what directory I had certificates in at the time. Anyway, a patch to change 3 bytes follows (diff -e format). term% diff -e smtpd.c /sys/src/cmd/upas/smtp/smtpd.c 949c cert = readcert("/sys/lib/tls/smtpd-cert.pem", &certlen); . term% Thanks. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 16 18:21:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 16 18:21:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17516 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Feb 2003 18:21:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17512 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2003 18:21:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Feb 2003 18:21:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8A69719AB5; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 04:21:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE6D819A33 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 04:20:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1G9KGmt001607 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 11:20:16 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h1G9KEL0001606 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 11:20:14 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Ugly hack Message-ID: <20030216112012.L9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030215174605.I9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <0043a6a833ad0d4ab1079c5a650c3b23@collyer.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <0043a6a833ad0d4ab1079c5a650c3b23@collyer.net>; from Geoff Collyer on Sat, Feb 15, 2003 at 03:56:28PM -0800 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 11:20:13 +0200 On Sat, Feb 15, 2003 at 03:56:28PM -0800, Geoff Collyer wrote: > > echo */. > > would work on Unix, but on Plan 9 matches all files in the current directory > (fallout from use of cleanname, perhaps?). However, > A small fix to my hack: while(Readdir(f, namep, dironly||namep[1]!=0)){ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ (adding a check for a trailing component) has the dual effect of fixing the above inconsistency and, hopefully, speed up the expansion by considering only directories if there is a subsequent component. There may be implications I have overlooked. I think the code should be revised, if the objective seems worthwhile, rather than hacked, but that's a decision for the _real_ developers. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 16 18:26:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 16 18:26:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17585 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Feb 2003 18:26:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17581 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2003 18:26:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Feb 2003 18:26:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CDBA419AF7; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 04:26:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4806E199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 04:25:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1G9PSmt001622 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 11:25:28 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h1G9PRr5001621 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 11:25:28 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Ugly hack Message-ID: <20030216112527.M9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030215174605.I9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <0043a6a833ad0d4ab1079c5a650c3b23@collyer.net> <20030216112012.L9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <20030216112012.L9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za>; from Lucio De Re on Sun, Feb 16, 2003 at 11:20:13AM +0200 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 11:25:27 +0200 On Sun, Feb 16, 2003 at 11:20:13AM +0200, Lucio De Re wrote: > > > A small fix to my hack: > > while(Readdir(f, namep, dironly||namep[1]!=0)){ > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Oops! Here's a clearer patch: term% diff glob.c `{yesterday glob.c} 69c69 < while(Readdir(f, namep, dironly||namep[1]!=0)){ --- > while(Readdir(f, namep, dironly)){ ++L PS: I don't know how important it is to check whether there actually is a speed improvement when expanding big directories. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 16 21:20:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 16 21:20:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20189 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Feb 2003 21:20:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20185 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2003 21:20:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Feb 2003 21:20:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7640E19AC8; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 07:20:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 82C8119A33 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 07:19:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1GCJ1mt001756 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 14:19:03 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h1GCJ07I001755 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 14:19:00 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Ugly hack Message-ID: <20030216141859.N9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030215174605.I9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <0043a6a833ad0d4ab1079c5a650c3b23@collyer.net> <20030216112012.L9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <20030216112527.M9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <20030216112527.M9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za>; from Lucio De Re on Sun, Feb 16, 2003 at 11:25:27AM +0200 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 14:18:59 +0200 On Sun, Feb 16, 2003 at 11:25:27AM +0200, Lucio De Re wrote: > > Oops! Here's a clearer patch: > > term% diff glob.c `{yesterday glob.c} > 69c69 > < while(Readdir(f, namep, dironly||namep[1]!=0)){ > --- > > while(Readdir(f, namep, dironly)){ > And here's one that actually doesn't break globbing: term% diff glob.c `{yesterday glob.c} 69c69 < while(Readdir(f, namep, dironly||*newp=='/')){ --- > while(Readdir(f, namep, dironly)){ term% > PS: I don't know how important it is to check whether there actually > is a speed improvement when expanding big directories. Error discovered while trying to display /bin/*/* for timing purposes. I still don't know if there is a speed improvement. But if the following is anything to go by: term% time rc -c 'echo /bin/*/* > /tmp/out.2' 0.02u 0.31s 1.18r rc -c echo /bin/*/* > /tmp/out.1 term% time /sys/src/cmd/rc/8.out -c 'echo /bin/*/* > /tmp/out.2' 0.03u 0.08s 0.27r /sys/src/cmd/rc/8.out -c echo /bin/*/* > /tmp/out.2 term% it looks pretty much a worthwhile improvement. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 16 21:47:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 16 21:47:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20472 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Feb 2003 21:47:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20468 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2003 21:47:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Feb 2003 21:47:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4510D19ABD; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 07:47:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2566719AF4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 07:46:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1GCjxmt001789 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 14:46:00 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h1GCjx57001788 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 14:45:59 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Ugly hack Message-ID: <20030216144558.O9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030215174605.I9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <0043a6a833ad0d4ab1079c5a650c3b23@collyer.net> <20030216112012.L9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <20030216112527.M9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <20030216141859.N9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <20030216141859.N9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za>; from Lucio De Re on Sun, Feb 16, 2003 at 02:18:59PM +0200 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 14:45:58 +0200 On Sun, Feb 16, 2003 at 02:18:59PM +0200, Lucio De Re wrote: > > > And here's one that actually doesn't break globbing: > > term% diff glob.c `{yesterday glob.c} > 69c69 > < while(Readdir(f, namep, dironly||*newp=='/')){ > --- > > while(Readdir(f, namep, dironly)){ > term% > OK, after this, I ought to shut up. *newp=='/' suffices to determine the value to be passed to the modified Readdir() function. This means that "dironly" within glob.c can be eliminated entirely. The following patch based on the original glob.c is much simpler: term% diff glob.c /n/dump/2003/0215/sys/src/cmd/rc/glob.c 64c64 < /* read the directory and recurse for any entry that matches */ --- > /* read the directory and recur for any entry that matches */ 68c68 < while(Readdir(f, namep, *newp=='/')){ --- > while(Readdir(f, namep)){ term% Please forgive all the previous noise. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 16 22:21:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 16 22:21:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21084 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Feb 2003 22:21:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21080 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2003 22:21:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Feb 2003 22:21:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DFFD519AFF; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 08:21:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 444C419AF4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 08:20:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Whither /sys/lib/ssl? In-Reply-To: <200302160458.h1G4wlM08923@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-qpveenioroutulisvxzbxuttom" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 08:20:32 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-qpveenioroutulisvxzbxuttom Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm going to rationalize those things. The naming is crazy. I'm going to rename them to something like /sys/lib/x509/cert and /sys/lib/x509/thumb. I think you had it in the right place given the way ehg was using it here but even he admits the naming is meaningless. --upas-qpveenioroutulisvxzbxuttom Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sat Feb 15 23:59:25 EST 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sat Feb 15 23:59:23 EST 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 15586199DD; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 23:59:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA1B2199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 23:58:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA09075 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 23:58:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1G4wlM08923 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 23:58:47 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302160458.h1G4wlM08923@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Dan Cross Subject: [9fans] Whither /sys/lib/ssl? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 23:58:47 -0500 The starttls support in smtpd had a small bug in it; instead of looking for the SMTP certificate in /sys/lib/tls, it was looking in the (seemingly older) /sys/lib/ssl. This is probably my fault, since I wrote that support originally; I can't remember what directory I had certificates in at the time. Anyway, a patch to change 3 bytes follows (diff -e format). term% diff -e smtpd.c /sys/src/cmd/upas/smtp/smtpd.c 949c cert = readcert("/sys/lib/tls/smtpd-cert.pem", &certlen); . term% Thanks. - Dan C. --upas-qpveenioroutulisvxzbxuttom-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 16 23:20:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 16 23:20:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21994 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Feb 2003 23:20:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21990 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2003 23:20:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Feb 2003 23:20:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0C70019B09; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 09:20:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AA24D19ACF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 09:19:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <5058bc09efabbfadfc80effc0d3ba1f1@plan9.bell-labs.com> X-Plan9-Fortune: Eadum sunt, quorum unum potest substitui alteri salva veritate. -Leibniz From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Ugly hack In-Reply-To: <20030215174605.I9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 09:19:38 -0500 This is not the right place for such a hack. You are attempting to fix a bug in the kernel by patching the shell. Down that path lies madness. See http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sys/doc/lexnames.ps. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 16 23:21:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 16 23:21:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22020 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Feb 2003 23:21:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22016 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2003 23:21:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Feb 2003 23:21:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3D7A319B10; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 09:21:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BAE5919ACF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 09:20:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: X-Plan9-Fortune: #define ISMPXHOST(hostid) ((*(short *)(*((char **)(*((char **)(Sys[-64])+(hostid))+44))+72))&0x10) From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs administration: how do people update multi-user fs? In-Reply-To: <20030215172922.H9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 09:20:39 -0500 > Still, I have seen odd situations, so I'm sure the warning is not > unjustified. I agree -- I think that the wrap tools might have done this. My point was just that with the current tools you should never get files owned by anyone but you and system accounts. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 16 23:31:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 16 23:31:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22152 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Feb 2003 23:31:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22148 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2003 23:31:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Feb 2003 23:31:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 64B0119B07; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 09:31:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 33C6B19ACF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 09:30:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1GEUYmt001911 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 16:30:34 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h1GEUXc6001910 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 16:30:33 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs administration: how do people update multi-user fs? Message-ID: <20030216163032.P9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030215172922.H9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from Russ Cox on Sun, Feb 16, 2003 at 09:20:39AM -0500 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 16:30:33 +0200 On Sun, Feb 16, 2003 at 09:20:39AM -0500, Russ Cox wrote: > > > Still, I have seen odd situations, so I'm sure the warning is not > > unjustified. > > I agree -- I think that the wrap tools might have done this. > My point was just that with the current tools you should never > get files owned by anyone but you and system accounts. This could be taken to mean that there was a time when "none" was the default destination file owner if the source owner was not recognised on the destination host, and that none of the currently in use tools manifest this behaviour any more. The reason I'm being pedantic, is that I'd like to be sure that this behaviour is not something hidden in the file handling somewhere that will return to haunt those of us who are not aware of it. If it is, then it would be good to have it documented. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 16 23:37:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 16 23:37:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22230 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Feb 2003 23:37:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22226 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2003 23:37:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Feb 2003 23:37:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 94A5419B11; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 09:37:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 07A5919AF4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 09:36:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Feb 16 09:36:57 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Sun Feb 16 09:36:54 EST 2003 Message-ID: <0c810eac01b3c8805de75cb29fd8695c@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs administration: how do people update multi-user fs? From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030216163032.P9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 09:36:52 -0500 When a file is created, it is owned by the person who created it. If you logged into a kfs system using a user name that was not in /adm/users, then to kfs you are logged in as `none'. If you are using a tool that sets the owner of a file on a kfs system in allow mode, then kfs does not check that you ask for a valid uid. If you ask for a user not in /adm/users, it will use `none'. The file server kernel and fossil are both much more paranoid -- they will not let you log in and will not let you chown when the users don't exist. Kfs was never meant to be more than a crutch. The fact that it is the most commonly used file server on Plan 9 is little more than an unfortunate historical accident. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 00:01:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 00:01:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22541 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 00:01:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22537 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 00:01:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 00:01:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6818C19AF8; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 10:01:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 451D219AF4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 10:00:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1GF0Mmt001969 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 17:00:23 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h1GF0MT6001968 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 17:00:22 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Ugly hack Message-ID: <20030216170019.Q9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030215174605.I9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <5058bc09efabbfadfc80effc0d3ba1f1@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <5058bc09efabbfadfc80effc0d3ba1f1@plan9.bell-labs.com>; from Russ Cox on Sun, Feb 16, 2003 at 09:19:38AM -0500 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 17:00:19 +0200 On Sun, Feb 16, 2003 at 09:19:38AM -0500, Russ Cox wrote: > > This is not the right place for such a hack. > You are attempting to fix a bug in the kernel > by patching the shell. Down that path lies > madness. See http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sys/doc/lexnames.ps. > Well, the shell does not make use of any special kernel features to expand globbed arguments, it recursively descends the directory tree. I'm addressing that aspect and I'm quite pleased with the results. If the kernel were to provide an equivalent function, I'd certainly be keen to see it incorporated in the shell and any other similar command and would try to motivate for it to be as powerful and/or practical as possible. I did read Rob's paper a while back, but I don't recall it addressing filename expansion. I could be mis-remembering, of course. In defense of my point of view, I must add the following: adding the "dironly" filter to the shell code (in the Readdir() function of plan9.c - I have an interesting challenge in duplicating this in unix.c, ironically) not only makes rc's behaviour consistent with my Unix-based expectations but also reduces the resources required for expanding big and/or deep directories quite considerably. I think it was echo /*/*/*/*/*/*/*/* that blew up with the release shell and completed (apparently successfully, although one may question the sanity of such an operation) with the modified shell. It goes without saying that echo /*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/ is not even vaguely useful under the original shell, even if there was as much virtual memory available as required. Now, I'm happy to confess that I don't know where the inconsistency Geoff discovered originates, he may well be right that it stems from poor kernel behaviour, but I'm not convinced. The modified shell seems to work correctly in both instances of: term% srv myrtle myrtle /n/kremvax post... term% cd /n/kremvax/usr/share/sendmail term% echo */. LICENSE/. README/. cf/. domain/. feature/. hack/. m4/. mailer/. ostype/. sh/. siteconfig/. term% /sys/src/cmd/rc/8.out -c 'echo */.' cf/. domain/. feature/. hack/. m4/. mailer/. ostype/. sh/. siteconfig/. term% /sys/src/cmd/rc/8.out -c 'echo */..' cf/.. domain/.. feature/.. hack/.. m4/.. mailer/.. ostype/.. sh/.. siteconfig/.. term% echo */.. cf/.. domain/.. feature/.. hack/.. m4/.. mailer/.. ostype/.. sh/.. siteconfig/.. term% The above mirrors the Unix (NetBSD) shell behaviour (I use pdksh, incidentally) which, interestingly, the Plan 9 version does not: term% ape/psh bind: /386/bin/pub: '/386/bin/pub' does not exist $ pwd /n/kremvax/usr/share/sendmail $ echo */ cf/ domain/ feature/ hack/ m4/ mailer/ ostype/ sh/ siteconfig/ $ echo */. LICENSE/. README/. cf/. domain/. feature/. hack/. m4/. mailer/. ostype/. sh/. siteconfig/. $ echo */.. cf/.. domain/.. feature/.. hack/.. m4/.. mailer/.. ostype/.. sh/.. siteconfig/.. $ So, I see that I may be chasing the wrong wild goose, but I'm only tangentially masking what may be a kernel error. The changes to rc just happened to be misguided, initially, and accidentally caused the additional problem to be fixed once I corrected my poor understanding. I would certainly be curious to get to the bottom of Geoff's anomaly. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 00:33:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 00:33:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22845 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 00:33:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22841 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 00:33:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 00:33:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E571419AF4; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 10:33:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ns.dbSystems.com (unknown [67.65.88.164]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A18DD19A73 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 10:32:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from kds (dhcp1.eot.dbSystems.com [204.178.76.100]) by ns.dbSystems.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with SMTP id h1GF95N11470 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 09:09:06 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from gdb@dbSystems.com) Message-ID: <005701c2d5d0$92f81180$644cb2cc@kds> From: "David Butler" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030215174605.I9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <5058bc09efabbfadfc80effc0d3ba1f1@plan9.bell-labs.com> <20030216170019.Q9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] Ugly hack MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 09:31:55 -0600 Please forgive this outburst, but I just have to say something... The crux of the problem is: [snip] > makes rc's behaviour consistent > with my Unix-based expectations [snip] Repeat after me: "Plan 9 is not Unix and in fundamental ways can NOT, and SHOULD NOT, be made to look like Unix." What happens when you do echo /*/*/*/*/*/*/*/* in Windows? You get /*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*. I guess it is not Unix. But if you run the GNU tools.... I think the biggest problem with Plan 9 is it looks too much like Unix and Bell Labs distributed APE. I'm glad they are generous with their code, but I think APE is Plan 9's Pandora's box. I watch with horror to see X, Perl and GNU tools "ported" to Plan 9. Linux was invented to give the Unix world a toy. Play there. I have argued this point for a long time and have recommended changes that make Plan 9 even less POSIX like because it would make Plan 9 a better computing platform. Get out of the box. Free Your Mind, Neo! There is no spoon. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 00:41:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 00:41:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22901 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 00:41:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22897 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 00:41:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 00:41:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B8DA719B0C; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 10:41:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 80E5B1999B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 10:40:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Feb 16 10:40:36 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Sun Feb 16 10:40:34 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Ugly hack From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030216170019.Q9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 10:40:31 -0500 > Well, the shell does not make use of any special kernel features > to expand globbed arguments, it recursively descends the directory > tree. I'm addressing that aspect and I'm quite pleased with the > results. My impression was that you were trying to make echo */ and echo */. match only the directories. The fact that access("/adm/users/.", 0) succeeds is a kernel bug and not something the shell should be trying to hack around. The dotdot paper shows a good example (ksh) of what confusion results when user-level programs try to fix kernel bugs (in that case, the handling of dotdot). Put another way, the definition of */. is (on Unix or on Plan 9) all the valid paths you get by substituting a name in the current directory for the star. It so happens that this set is different on Plan 9, and that is in fact a bug caused by early cleaning of the names, and nothing more. It's not the shell's fault, and it's certainly not the shell's place to patch it up. In the process you appear to have improved rc's performance somewhat, by using the extra information you get from a Plan 9 readdir as opposed to a Unix readdir, and that's nice, but not what I was referring to. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 01:41:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 01:41:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23375 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 01:41:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23371 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 01:41:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 01:41:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9EB5919ACF; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 11:41:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.prosyst.com (ns.prosyst.com [195.14.248.50]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C34AB19A33 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 11:40:54 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 28583 invoked by uid 1079); 16 Feb 2003 16:40:12 -0000 Message-ID: <20030216164012.28582.qmail@mail.prosyst.com> From: niki@prosyst.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] keyboard Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 16:40:12 GMT Hi, I have a question about the keyboard in plan9. Currently I am trying to rewrite kbd.c for my "qwertz" keyboard and after a few probes I realized that "Caps Lock" key don't work and has the same code as "ue" (u umlaut) 0xe4. Is that a mistake? Nikolay From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 02:05:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 02:05:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23528 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 02:05:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23523 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 02:05:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 02:05:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CDB8719B2B; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 12:05:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E3C9019B18 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 12:04:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h1GH3Tt21223 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 12:03:29 -0500 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] iso? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 12:03:29 -0500 (EST) I'm looking at installing tex and having mounted /n/sources I see it's a .iso.bz2. What should I do with the iso to get the sources mounted at /sys/src/cmd/tex, or, how do most people handle the isos? Cheers, Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 02:23:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 02:23:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23662 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 02:23:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23658 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 02:23:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 02:23:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 379A519B2F; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 12:23:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6ADF419A73 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 12:22:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23340 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 12:22:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1GHM9M12724 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 12:22:09 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302161722.h1GHM9M12724@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] iso? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 16 Feb 2003 12:03:29 EST." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 12:22:09 -0500 > I'm looking at installing tex and having mounted > /n/sources I see it's a .iso.bz2. What should > I do with the iso to get the sources mounted > at /sys/src/cmd/tex, or, how do most people handle > the isos? You've got to bunzip2 the compressed ISO image, mount it, and install it using replica/pull. term% bunzip2 < /n/sources/extra/tex.iso.bz2 > /someplace/big/tex.iso term% 9660srv term% mount /srv/9660 /n/dist /someplace/big/tex.iso The install files will then be under /n/dist. You probably need to do something like run a script to touch the replica db and log files, and then run pull. There's usually a README file inside the ISO that gives you exact instructions. If you're installing into a KFS, you shouldn't have any problems. If you're installing onto a fileserver, you'll need to modify the replica configuration file. That's the sort of thing I want /dist/replica/site for to be included in replica config files for. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 02:39:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 02:39:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23770 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 02:39:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23766 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 02:39:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 02:39:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 38EF119B30; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 12:39:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 985B519A27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 12:38:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h1GHcGt21250 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 12:38:16 -0500 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] iso? In-Reply-To: <200302161722.h1GHM9M12724@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 12:38:16 -0500 (EST) I kinda figured this was the procedure. Unzipping it to mount it, install, and eventually remove the iso just seemed like a waste. Is there any reason we bz2 the iso on sources? Does the compression level warrant losing the ability to mount the iso directly from sources, or is that just a fundamentally bad idea? Sam On Sun, 16 Feb 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > > I'm looking at installing tex and having mounted > > /n/sources I see it's a .iso.bz2. What should > > I do with the iso to get the sources mounted > > at /sys/src/cmd/tex, or, how do most people handle > > the isos? > > You've got to bunzip2 the compressed ISO image, mount it, and > install it using replica/pull. > > term% bunzip2 < /n/sources/extra/tex.iso.bz2 > /someplace/big/tex.iso > term% 9660srv > term% mount /srv/9660 /n/dist /someplace/big/tex.iso > > The install files will then be under /n/dist. You probably need to > do something like run a script to touch the replica db and log files, > and then run pull. There's usually a README file inside the ISO > that gives you exact instructions. > > If you're installing into a KFS, you shouldn't have any problems. > If you're installing onto a fileserver, you'll need to modify the > replica configuration file. That's the sort of thing I want > /dist/replica/site for to be included in replica config files > for. > > - Dan C. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 02:47:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 02:47:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23927 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 02:47:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23923 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 02:47:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 02:47:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 746CA19B29; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 12:47:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1131019B2D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 12:46:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29785 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 12:46:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1GHkYM13009 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 12:46:34 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302161746.h1GHkYM13009@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] iso? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 16 Feb 2003 12:38:16 EST." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 12:46:34 -0500 > I kinda figured this was the procedure. Unzipping > it to mount it, install, and eventually remove the > iso just seemed like a waste. Is there any reason > we bz2 the iso on sources? Does the compression > level warrant losing the ability to mount > the iso directly from sources, or is that just a > fundamentally bad idea? I don't know; Russ can speak to that I'm sure. Off the top of my head, it does seem that without compression, the iso files would be really too big to be managable (tex.iso is well over 100 MB, if I recall correctly). If people were mounting them directly off of sources, that would also add a lot of traffic to sources (and the MH Internet link). I don't know if that's the real reason though. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 03:17:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 03:17:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24140 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 03:17:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24136 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 03:17:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 03:17:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2643219B02; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 13:17:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DF9F519A33 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 13:16:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Feb 16 13:16:17 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Sun Feb 16 13:16:14 EST 2003 Message-ID: <23e62cd91cc5d0cdfd8d09cfd98219bd@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] iso? From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <200302161746.h1GHkYM13009@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 13:16:12 -0500 The main reason they're bzipped is that they used to be available only via the web page, and compression is a no-brainer then. Given the latency of most connections to sources, my guess is that you get an enormous saving in time by downloading it compressed and then dealing with a local file system. But maybe not. In any case, there should be a script to do an install for you. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 03:49:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 03:49:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24309 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 03:49:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24305 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 03:49:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 03:49:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9B3B419B18; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 13:49:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0E35119A27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 13:48:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Feb 16 13:48:00 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Sun Feb 16 13:47:57 EST 2003 Message-ID: <72244085186b915ecd49228802915984@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] keyboard From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030216164012.28582.qmail@mail.prosyst.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 13:47:55 -0500 We interpret Caps Lock as equivalent to Control, so even if the key codes were not ambiguous you still wouldn't have Caps Lock. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 06:18:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 06:18:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25223 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 06:18:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25219 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 06:18:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 06:18:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EE43F19B34; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 16:18:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail500.nifty.com (mail500.nifty.com [202.248.37.208]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 617B819A33 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 16:17:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (eatkyo900071.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp [210.229.24.71]) by mail500.nifty.com with ESMTP id h1GLGxp6002658 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 06:16:59 +0900 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v482) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Moroo Jun To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <1B0BBF95-41BB-11D7-B61E-0050E4504768@nifty.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.482) Subject: [9fans] webfs from Python Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 23:29:49 +0900 I tried to use webfs from Python. I wrote a little test script and try to get web page, but fail. Any suggestions? cpu% cat web.py import os web = open("/mnt/web/clone","rw") t=web.readlines() id=int(t[0]) base=os.path.join("/mnt/web/%d" % id) ctlfd=open(os.path.join(base,"ctl"),"rw") ctlfd.write("url http://www.example.com/index.html") bodyfd=open(os.path.join(base,"body"),"r") t=bodyfd.read(), print t web.close() cpu% python web.py Traceback (most recent call last): File w.py:9, in ? bodyfd=open(os.path.join(base,"body"),"r") IOError: [Errno 0] url is not yet set: '/mnt/web/0/body' From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 06:21:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 06:21:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25247 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 06:21:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25243 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 06:21:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 06:21:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C9CDC19B37; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 16:21:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 06F0E199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 16:20:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Feb 16 16:20:53 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Sun Feb 16 16:20:51 EST 2003 Message-ID: <4b948f68f42f405da66ebecd9116d2b2@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] webfs from Python From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <1B0BBF95-41BB-11D7-B61E-0050E4504768@nifty.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 16:20:48 -0500 perhaps you have to ctlfd.flush() in order to make the write go out? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 06:25:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 06:25:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25269 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 06:25:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25265 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 06:25:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 06:25:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B89719B3B; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 16:25:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail504.nifty.com (mail504.nifty.com [202.248.37.212]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 67E8F19B38 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 16:24:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (eatkyo900071.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp [210.229.24.71]) by mail504.nifty.com with ESMTP id h1GLOhBj019754 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 06:24:43 +0900 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v482) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Moroo Jun To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <10BD2481-41F5-11D7-9B7A-0050E4504768@nifty.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.482) Subject: [9fans] webfs from Python Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 06:24:43 +0900 I tried to use webfs from Python. I wrote a little test script and try to get web page, but fail. Any suggestions? cpu% cat web.py import os web = open("/mnt/web/clone","rw") t=web.readlines() id=int(t[0]) base=os.path.join("/mnt/web/%d" % id) ctlfd=open(os.path.join(base,"ctl"),"rw") ctlfd.write("url http://www.example.com/index.html") bodyfd=open(os.path.join(base,"body"),"r") t=bodyfd.read(), print t web.close() cpu% python web.py Traceback (most recent call last): File w.py:9, in ? bodyfd=open(os.path.join(base,"body"),"r") IOError: [Errno 0] url is not yet set: '/mnt/web/0/body' From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 07:03:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 07:03:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25525 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 07:03:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25521 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 07:03:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 07:03:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 58F7519B38; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 17:03:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5F7DF19A73 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 17:02:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <9ab6ad342d0ca5c48ae105a5d4c40891@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] ip/tcp bug Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 17:02:49 -0500 I fixed tcp/ip to give up immediately if there's no route to the destination. This will fix Dan Cross' /net,/net.alt dialing delays but others, with default routes, won't be helped. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 07:29:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 07:29:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25708 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 07:29:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25704 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 07:29:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 07:29:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4E6CA19B36; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 17:29:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from unicorn.math.spbu.ru (unicorn.math.spbu.ru [195.19.226.166]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2ACB819A73 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 17:28:30 -0500 (EST) Received: (from vugluskr@localhost) by unicorn.math.spbu.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA14352 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 01:28:25 +0300 From: "Roman V. Shaposhnick" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs administration: how do people update multi-user fs? Message-ID: <20030217012825.A14252@unicorn.math.spbu.ru> References: <3E4D2482.3020204@nas.com> <20030214101950.L56261@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3i In-Reply-To: <20030214101950.L56261@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 01:28:25 +0300 On Fri, Feb 14, 2003 at 10:28:11AM -0700, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > On Fri, 14 Feb 2003, Jack Johnson wrote: > Indeed it takes time, but sooner or later Linux/*BSD will adopt > the ideas from Plan9 (some they have already -- devfs comes as an example). Speaking about Linux in general and devfs in particular I'd trade adopting the ideas for adopting the code style and cleanliness without a hint of hesitation. As for ideas, last time I spoke with Al Viro, he told me that implementing full blown namespaces will upset looserland tremendously. So, he's not doing it. Thanks, Roman. P.S. Yes, I know, everytime somebody mentions devfs -- I have this itch to scratch ;-) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 11:20:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 11:20:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31157 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 11:20:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31153 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 11:20:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 11:20:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A744D19A27; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 21:20:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D69819A0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 21:19:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2a8717e3c59f9c1c7ecde7241b6103b6@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] marsv man page From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-lihzmwywjonrqfiizklnqiboch" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 11:20:56 +0900 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-lihzmwywjonrqfiizklnqiboch Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I used my last Saturday and Sunday to improve my documents for Marsv. Skip, you are very much appreciated! I included two files, (1)man page for Marsv and (2)README. It may be waste of space, however, I started it before, and then I have to close it by myself... Sorry, everyone. Kenji --upas-lihzmwywjonrqfiizklnqiboch Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit .TH MARSV 1 .SH NAME marsv \- View PDS images and measure the elevation of Mars surface using MOLA grid data; Output the result to a postscript formatted file .SH SYNOPSIS .B marsv .SH DESCRIPTION .I Marsv is a GUI program for measuring Mars elevation, latitude and longitude at the location pointed at by the mouse cursor, on a Qube image or MOLA grid data. The program draws a contour map overlaid on the image using MOLA grid data, and generates a postscript output file. .PP Marsv is intended to be an acme like user interface for manipulating Mars images with additional menu barproperty for 3 button mouse. The Left button shows the category name of the item, the Middle button executes the indicated job by the menu name, and the Right button lists the items for that category so that the user can choose and execute one. .PP In Altitude menu of ISISmenu category of QUBELoad menu or MOLALoad menu, the Left button shows the user the values of elevation, longitude and latitude of the location that the mouse points to. When the mouse in this mode is dragged, those values will be shown continuously, which makes you to understand the real shape of the object you are now watching. When you want to erase these data from the screen, press the Middle button. .PP In Contour menu of ISISmenu category of QUBELoad menu, dragging button 3 can make correction for the minor discrepancy between that indicated by MOLA grid data and by Qube image data. After this recalibration, remapping of the countour will be necessary to get a correct one. The values of longitude and latitude shown in Altitude menu of ISISmenu category are also recalculated by the above procedure. In short, you have to confirm the accuracy of those data shown by the mouse over the contour maps, and if necessary, that recalibration should be done. Those two values will not usually match each other from our experiences. .PP Marsv assumes there is a MOLA grid data (such as ieg0031t.img for 0.031 degree grid) in the $home/data/mars/mola/ directory. Additionally, marsv can read many other PDS formatted images of other planet (and such as gif images of course), and make simple annotations using Pen menu by changing colors from Palette menu. .SH IMPLEMENTATION Marsv designed as a single threaded concurrent program, ie. only a process can include many threads, using thread(2) and control(2) libraries of Plan 9. All the controles to a window should be done by sending a control message to an appropriate channel, which may not be necessarily attached to a visible window. Four general purpose user interfaces with its own windows are implemented as shown in struct Form, struct Filebrowse, struct Select and struct Viewer. Those structures are constructed using two new basic structures, named struct Win and struct WinComm, which control their shape, position and behaviour. All those strructures have ctl, data, winctl and event channels to send or receive the control messages or data, the last of which is just a handle to a real channel. Those channels will be created by the function of mkwincomm() in wincomm.c. .PP Struct Canvas is prepared to provide layer structures to marsv image by using memdraw and layer functions in memdraw(2) libraries of Plan 9, which is a mechanism to make multiple layers in the user's memory space. Each layer may be for drawing the altitude, latitude and longitude data at the moving mouse point, or for drawing image data themselves. Struct Layer and CanvasBase are used as their base structures. The other many structures from control(2) library are also used through newly defined structure of Wincontrol. Struct Canvas related thread has no winctl channel, then, has no distinct visible window, where channels are created individually, and mkwincomm() is not applied. The struct Viewer is used to copy the layered image to visible image. .PP We added struct Textbutton3 for our usage of 3 button menu bar to control(2) library. You may want to copy textbutton3.c.lib file to /sys/src/libcontrol/txtbutton3.c, and do mk the control library with some change to /sys/include/control.h and /sys/src/libcontrol/control.c and mkfile to make those usable. .PP If you want to extend functionarities to marsv, please refer to files such as imager.c or marsv.c. .SH BUGS Some images with larger width may fail to be shown, because of the limit of 9p protocol. 16 bit color is not supported to save the created image. You will lose true color from saving in 16 bit true color mode of Plan 9. To input file name etc. onto the entry box, you have to hit Enter key at the end to ensure the input, which is not a bug though. There may be many other bugs. .SH AUTHORS Marsv was written by Yoshitatsu Suzuki and Kenji Okamoto of Osaka Prefecture University. We are financially supported by the citizens of Osaka Prefecure Japan. --upas-lihzmwywjonrqfiizklnqiboch Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marsv is a Plan 9 GUI program for measuring elevations of Mars surface. We employed acme style GUI interface for this purpose, where we aimed to design it extendable for other image processing purpose. We adopted 3 button mouse interface for menu bar, ie. (1) left button: show the category name of the menu item (2) center button: execute the job as acme does (3) right button: show the content of the menu item, and choose one. To wrtite this program, we referenced very often the sources of acme(1) and control(2) library by Rob Pike. We are very much grateful to his and other developper's works for Plan 9 operating system. Some of files, gfx.c and page.h are whole copy of page(1) program of standard distribution of Plan 9. So, the license term of Plan 9 will also be applied to gfx.c file. In regard to the license terms for other files, we believe that this software is for scientific use, and then, all the users of this software will recognize and respect the importance of originality. For full use of this program, you may need additional decompressing program of, for an example, MOC PDS CDROM data. We haven't included those programs, because we don't know whether we can do it. If you want to try this, and you have license of those PDS images, please contact Kenji Okamoto (okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp). To compile those programs on Plan 9 is not difficult, and we believe anyone who wants to run Plan 9 will have such ability. So, please don't bother us too much. However, some friends of mine (Kenji) in geology field are welcome anytime, of course. I will help you with pleasure. We will not respond to any requests from anonymous user. Without those programs you can use only a very limitted functions of marsv, where all the image format which page can recognize except of postscript will be read into and then manupurated by marsv program. However, if you are not concerned with Planetary Geology, you may not want to run this anyway. :-) This program was first coded by Yoshitatsu Suzuki for a part of his master thesis of Osaka Prefecture University (planv was that name). Yoshitatsu has left our Univ. for Tokyo, then, if you have questions, please contact Kenji. He will come back 9fans soon when he will be ready. Lastly, Please remember this is a product of Osaka Prefecture University. We are funded by the Univ., and which is been running by taxes paid by the citizenes of Osaka Prefecture, Japan. INSTALL Copy textbutton3.c.lib to /sys/src/libcontrol/textbutton3.c, and add a line to mkfile as 'textbutton3.$O\ to the last of OFILES list. Similarly, add a line as '[Ctltextbutton3] = "textbutton3",' just before of the textbutton entry of ctltypenames array. You may also add a line into enum of types as Ctltextbutton3, just after the item of Ctltextbutton, and then, recompile the libcontrol. After above, you can just 'mk install' under the marsv source directory. You can copy marsv.1 to /sys/man/1pub/marsv, which is a man page of marsv. FILES README this file canvas.h defines Canvas and CanvasBase structures, and others for canvasthread mola.h definitions for MOLA image win.h basic definitions for win.c wincomm.h basic definitions for wincomm.c page.h stollen from page program included in Plan 9 distribution qube.h definitions for QUBE image browse.c file browser for marsv canvas.c canvasthread to make layer structure in marsv, and load images onto user memory space using memdraw(2) functions. canvassub.c subroutines for layer and canvas. contour.c make contour map using MOLA grid data form.c formthread to make basic window with minimal user interface gfx.c image file converter stollen from page program of Plan 9 distribution imager.c make window for Qube image or other formatted images marsv.c threadmain of marsv mitems.c make menubar content and choose topmenu etc. molaload.c select the concerned area from MOLA grid data palette.c make color palette for drawing lines, contour lines map etc. readmola.c read selected MOLA data, and enhance the image to fit better to visualize readqube.c ditto, but for Qube formatted image by ISIS program from USGS save.c save produced image to a file with several format including postscript select.c select the file from shown directory tree viewer.c make view window with scrollbars win.c basic functions to define the shape of windows wincomm.c basic function to define the behaviour of each window pics/pds2pic.c convert various PDS image to Plan 9 image(6) format pics/pic2ps.c convert Plan 9 image(6) to postscript format March 20, 2002 February 14, 2003 Osaka Prefecture University Kenji Okamoto okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp --upas-lihzmwywjonrqfiizklnqiboch-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 11:27:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 11:27:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31636 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 11:27:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31632 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 11:27:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 11:27:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 65E8719B21; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 21:27:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6391719A73 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 21:26:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8885a95771fbecb3bcc6f8446b343a98@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] marsv man page From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-oejcekedoquzriulevohxdexmo" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 11:27:39 +0900 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-oejcekedoquzriulevohxdexmo Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ouch! I enclosed older version of man page. New man page I mentioned is here. Kenji --upas-oejcekedoquzriulevohxdexmo Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit .TH MARSV 1 .SH NAME marsv \- View PDS images and measure the elevation of Mars surface using MOLA grid data; Output the result to a postscript formatted file .SH SYNOPSIS .B marsv .SH DESCRIPTION .I Marsv is a GUI program for measuring Mars elevation, latitude and longitude at the location pointed at by the mouse cursor, on a Qube image or MOLA grid data. The program draws a contour lines map overlaid on the image using MOLA grid data, and generates a postscript output file. .PP Marsv is intended to be an acme like user interface for manipulating Mars images with additional menubar property for 3 button mouse. The Left button shows the category name of the item, the Middle button executes the indicated job by the menu name, and the Right button lists the items for that category so that the user can choose and execute one. .PP In Elevation menu of ISISmenu category of QUBELoad menu or MOLALoad menu, the Left button shows the values of elevation, longitude and latitude of the location that the mouse points to. When the mouse in this mode is dragged, those values will be shown continuously, which makes you to understand the real shape of the object you are now watching. When you want to erase the data of the last point from the screen, press the Middle button. .PP In Contour menu of ISISmenu category of QUBELoad menu, dragging the Right button can make correction for the minor discrepancy between the location indicated by MOLA grid data and by Qube image data. Usually small parallel shift will only be required to match those two data sets. That is to match a point indicated by the contour map in the MOLA grid data to some point which is easily recongnized as the same one from an outstanding geographic feature. After this recalibration, remaking of the contour lines map will be necessary to get a correct one. The values of longitude and latitude shown in Elevation menu of ISISmenu category are also recalculated by the above procedure. In short, you have to confirm the accuracy of those data by showing the contour lines map before you try to ecamine the elevation of individual location. Those two values will not usually match each other from our experience. .PP Marsv assumes there is a MOLA grid data (such as ieg0031t.img for 0.031 degree grid) in the $home/data/mars/mola/ directory. Additionally, marsv can read many other PDS formatted images of other planet (and such as gif images of course), and make simple annotations using Pen menu by changing colors from Palette menu. .SH IMPLEMENTATION Marsv designed as a single threaded concurrent program, ie. only a process can include many threads, using thread(2) and control(2) libraries of Plan 9. All the controles to a window should be done by sending a control message to an appropriate channel, which may not be necessarily attached to a visible window. Five general purpose user interfaces with its own windows are implemented as shown in struct mItems, struct Form, struct Filebrowse, struct Select and struct Viewer. Those structures are constructed using two new basic structures, named struct Win and struct WinComm, which control their shape, position and behaviour. All those structures have ctl, data, winctl and event channels to send or receive the control messages or data, the last of which is just a handle to a real channel. The winctl channel controls the action of the window itself, such as resize, move and mount etc.. Those channels will be created by the function of mkwincomm() in wincomm.c. .PP Struct Canvas is prepared to provide layer structures to marsv image by using memdraw and layer functions in memdraw(2) libraries of Plan 9, which is a mechanism to make multiple layers in the user's memory space. Each layer may be for drawing the elevation, latitude and longitude data at the moving mouse point, or for drawing image itself. Struct Layer and CanvasBase are used as their base structures. The other many structures from control(2) library are also used through newly defined structure of Wincontrol. Struct Canvas related thread has no winctl channel, then, has no distinct visible window, where channels are created individually, and mkwincomm() is not applied. The struct Viewer is used to copy the layered image in user's memory space to visible image in kernal memory space. The layered memory image will be overlaid at this time if it is necessary. .PP We added struct Textbutton3 for our usage of 3 button menu bar to control(2) library. The method to install it is described in README file. .PP If you want to extend functionarities to marsv, please refer to files such as imager.c or marsv.c. .SH FILES .nf .B README this file .br .B canvas.h defines Canvas and CanvasBase structures, .br .B and others for canvasthread .br .B mola.h definitions for MOLA image .br .B win.h basic definitions for win.c .br .B wincomm.h basic definitions for wincomm.c .br .B page.h stollen from page program included in .br .B Plan 9 distribution .br .B qube.h definitions for QUBE image .br .B browse.c file browser for marsv .br .B canvas.c canvasthread to make layer structure in .br .B marsv, and load images onto user .br .B memory space using .br .B memdraw(2) functions .br .B canvassub.c subroutines for layer and canvas .br .B contour.c make contour lines map using MOLA grid .br .B data .br .B form.c formthread to make basic window with .br .B minimal user interface .br .B gfx.c image file converter stollen from page .br .B program of Plan 9 distribution .br .B imager.c make window for Qube image or .br .B other formatted images .br .B marsv.c threadmain of marsv .br .B mitems.c make menubar content and choose topmenu .br .B etc. .br .B molaload.c select the concerned area from MOLA .br .B grid data .br .B palette.c make color palette for drawing lines, .br .B contour lines map etc. .br .B readmola.c read selected MOLA data, and enhance .br .B the image to fit better .br .B to visualize .br .B readqube.c ditto, but for Qube formatted image .br .B by ISIS program from USGS .br .B save.c save produced image to a file .br .B with several format including .br .B postscript .br .B select.c select the file from shown directory .br .B tree .br .B viewer.c make view window with scrollbars .br .B win.c basic functions to define the shape .br .B of windows .br .B wincomm.c basic function to define the behaviour .br .B of each window .br .B pics/pds2pic.c convert various PDS image to .br .B Plan 9 image(6) format .br .B pics/pic2ps.c convert Plan 9 image(6) to postscript .br .B format .SH BUGS Some images with larger width may fail to be shown, because of the limit of 9p protocol. 16 bit color is not supported to save the created image. You will lose true color from saving in 16 bit true color mode of Plan 9. To input file name etc. onto the entry box, you have to hit Enter key at the end to ensure the input, which is not a bug though. There may be many other bugs. .SH AUTHORS Marsv was written by Yoshitatsu Suzuki and Kenji Okamoto of Osaka Prefecture University. We are financially supported by the citizens of Osaka Prefecure Japan. --upas-oejcekedoquzriulevohxdexmo-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 12:20:53 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 12:20:53 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 880 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 12:20:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 873 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 12:20:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 12:20:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A355219B13; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:20:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.monitorbm.co.nz (smtp.monitorbm.co.nz [203.167.201.38]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4C14619A0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:19:55 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 4257 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 03:19:52 -0000 Received: from mercury.mbmnz.co.nz (HELO MERCURY) (192.168.0.63) by mail.monitorbm.co.nz with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 03:19:52 -0000 From: "Andrew Simmons" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3E510C04.18111.17397F5@localhost> Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.01) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Subject: [9fans] fidtab in u9fs Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:21:24 +1300 I've been looking at the source for u9fs, and am a bit puzzled by the table of fids and the newfid function. The table is declared as Fidtab *fidtab[1]; and the business part of newfid is: f = emalloc(sizeof(*f)); f->next = fidtab[fid%nelem(fidtab)]; if(f->next) f->next->prev = f; fidtab[fid%nelem(fidtab)] = f; f->fid = fid; As far as I can see, nelem(fidtab) is 1, so that fidtab is always indexed by 0, and there is only ever a single element in the table, whose next and prev elements point at itself. And if so, what's the point of the loop in lookupfid? I'm probably being really thick here, but what am I missing? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 12:28:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 12:28:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1088 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 12:28:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1084 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 12:28:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 12:28:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9F1A619A0D; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:28:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9353D19A0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:27:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Feb 16 22:27:15 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Sun Feb 16 22:27:13 EST 2003 Message-ID: <8c23df3d180be79a054b2c6effaf5605@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fidtab in u9fs From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <3E510C04.18111.17397F5@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:27:11 -0500 There can be more than one element in the list -- if you call newfid twice then there will be two fids in the list. You should look at removefid too. It would be a more effective hash table if fidtab were declared with more than one element. That was probably debugging that never got taken out. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 12:38:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 12:38:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1352 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 12:38:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1348 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 12:38:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 12:38:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 149D019B1E; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:38:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E27E1999B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:37:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA00311 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:37:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1H3bAM15543 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:37:10 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302170337.h1H3bAM15543@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----- =_aaaaaaaaaa0" Content-ID: <15527.1045452885.0@augusta.math.psu.edu> From: Dan Cross Subject: [9fans] Unix trampoline. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:37:10 -0500 ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <15527.1045452885.1@augusta.math.psu.edu> In an effort to avoid spending all day messing with computers, I left my laptop at home today. However, I then came down with a fever, and haven't been able to do any of the things I wanted to do other than play with a computer. (Ever try conjugating verbs at 105 degrees? Wow, talk about trippy. I actually thought I was in Moscow at one point.) I decided during the course of the day that I'd really like to pull from sources, but couldn't do that because my file server isn't currently hooked up to the Internet. However, my girlfriend's laptop is, and is running MacOS X, and has X11 and drawterm installed. So, I sat down and wrote a quick clone of aux/trampoline for Unix. This did the trick. Here's how it works: her airport card provides the connection to the Internet. The built-in ethernet connects to the network with the file and CPU server and gets assigned the name, ``rudra''. I run trampoline on her laptop twice to forward connections for both 9fs and ticket to sources. I run drawterm and connect to the CPU server, where I sweep a window, fudge with my namespace a little, and run an ndb/cs that returns rudra when queried for the auth server for the outside.plan9.bell-labs.com domain. Then I start a factotum and just: srv -m tcp!rudra sources /n/sources It works like a charm; sources is now mounted on /n/sources. If I: bind /n/sources /n/dist mount -c /srv/boot /n/inst replica/pull -v /n/dist/dist/replica/inst I end up updating from sources more or less normally. Note, that's a handy way to do an update if you're on a fileserver. You could throw: #!/bin/rc rfork n srv -m tcp!sources.cs.bell-labs.com sources /n/dist mount -c /srv/boot /n/inst replica/pull -v /n/dist/dist/replica/inst Into a script and you're good to go; that's how I update my system. Anyway, I'm including the Unix version of trampoline here for those who might find it useful. Note that I turn off nagle everywhere I possibly can (probably more places than I need), and I also don't worry about a xfer9p function. Since (most) versions of Unix don't do il, and il is going away anyway, it's not needed. TCP already deals with coalescing packets; xfer9p is only needed for 9p over il, where message delimiters are preseved by individual read and write calls. It's also interesting to look at the hoops I jump through to avoid using select(). I fork a couple of processes to handle the I/O, which is okay, but synchronize them using process groups; Unix process groups are cheesey. Any comments are appreciated. I've compiled it under MacOS X and Solaris 8, but only tested it on the Mac. - Dan C. ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <15527.1045452885.2@augusta.math.psu.edu> /* * This is useful for mounting something that serves 9p. * * Dan Cross */ #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include void nonagle(int sd) { int one; one = 1; setsockopt(sd, IPPROTO_TCP, TCP_NODELAY, &one, sizeof(one)); } int announceon(int port) { struct sockaddr_in srv; int sd; sd = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, 0); if (sd < 0) { perror("socket"); exit(EXIT_FAILURE); } memset(&srv, 0, sizeof(srv)); srv.sin_family = AF_INET; srv.sin_port = htons(port); srv.sin_addr.s_addr = htonl(INADDR_ANY); if (bind(sd, (struct sockaddr *)&srv, sizeof(srv)) < 0) { perror("bind"); exit(EXIT_FAILURE); } if (listen(sd, 5) < 0) { perror("listen"); exit(EXIT_FAILURE); } return(sd); } int listento(int sd) { struct sockaddr_in cli; int csize; csize = sizeof(cli); memset(&cli, 0, csize); sd = accept(sd, (struct sockaddr *)&cli, &csize); if (sd < 0) return(sd); nonagle(sd); return(sd); } int dialto(char *host, int port) { struct hostent *h; struct sockaddr_in srv; int sd; h = gethostbyname(host); if (h == NULL) { return(-1); } sd = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, 0); if (sd < 0) { return(-1); } memset(&srv, 0, sizeof(srv)); srv.sin_family = AF_INET; srv.sin_port = htons(port); memmove(&srv.sin_addr.s_addr, h->h_addr, h->h_length); if (connect(sd, (struct sockaddr *)&srv, sizeof(srv)) < 0) { close(sd); return(-1); } nonagle(sd); return(sd); } void xfer(int from, int to) { int n; char buf[8192]; for ( ; ; ) { n = read(from, buf, sizeof(buf)); if (n <= 0) return; if (write(to, buf, n) != n) return; } } void srv(int myport, char *host, int port) { int ad, sd, fd, pid; ad = announceon(myport); for ( ; ; ) { sd = listento(ad); if (sd < 0) { perror("listento"); continue; } fd = dialto(host, port); if (fd < 0) { perror("dialto"); close(sd); continue; } pid = fork(); if (pid != 0) { /* Parent or error. */ close(sd); close(fd); continue; } /* This is the child. */ setpgid(0, getpid()); pid = fork(); if (pid < 0) _exit(EXIT_FAILURE); if (pid == 0) xfer(fd, sd); else xfer(sd, fd); killpg(getpgid(0), SIGTERM); } } void reaper(int sig) { wait(NULL); } int main(int argc, char *argv[]) { if (argc != 4) { fprintf(stderr, "Usage: trampoline port host port\n"); exit(EXIT_FAILURE); } /* Handlers stay installed with signal() these days. */ signal(SIGCHLD, reaper); srv(atoi(argv[1]), argv[2], atoi(argv[3])); return(EXIT_SUCCESS); } ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa0-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 12:39:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 12:39:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1382 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 12:39:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1376 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 12:39:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 12:39:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E95E019B39; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:39:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.monitorbm.co.nz (smtp.monitorbm.co.nz [203.167.201.38]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C203C19B25 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:38:54 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 4429 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 03:38:53 -0000 Received: from mercury.mbmnz.co.nz (HELO MERCURY) (192.168.0.63) by mail.monitorbm.co.nz with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 03:38:53 -0000 From: "Andrew Simmons" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [9fans] fidtab in u9fs Message-ID: <3E511078.26129.184FD82@localhost> Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.01) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:40:24 +1300 > It would be a more effective hash table if fidtab > were declared with more than one element. Thanks. I was fixating on the declaration so much that I didn't read the code properly. Mea maxima culpa. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 12:48:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 12:48:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1641 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 12:48:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1637 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 12:48:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 12:48:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EF2F719B3C; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:48:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A66481999B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:47:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03090 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:47:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1H3lZM15671 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:47:35 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302170347.h1H3lZM15671@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Unix trampoline. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:37:10 EST." <200302170337.h1H3bAM15543@augusta.math.psu.edu> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:47:35 -0500 > It works like a charm; sources is now mounted on /n/sources. If I: > > bind /n/sources /n/dist Whoops, did you catch the error here? It should be: bind /n/sources/plan9 /n/dist > mount -c /srv/boot /n/inst > replica/pull -v /n/dist/dist/replica/inst [...] > #!/bin/rc > rfork n > srv -m tcp!sources.cs.bell-labs.com sources /n/dist Similarily here. This should be: 9fs sources bind /n/sources/plan9 /n/dist > mount -c /srv/boot /n/inst > replica/pull -v /n/dist/dist/replica/inst > > Put this into a script and you're good to go; that's how I update my > system. Okay, I lied; I use a working script. Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got to catch a train to St. Petersburg.... - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 13:20:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 13:20:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2701 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 13:20:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2695 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 13:20:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 13:20:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0CE3D19B3A; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 23:20:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AD69E19A0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 23:19:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4c24d81728bfef1b3bd7bd0c5ad7af6f@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Unix trampoline. From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 13:20:14 +0900 > Now, if you'll excuse me, I've > got to catch a train to St. Petersburg.... Then, you can enjoy the play of orchestra conducted by Gergiev (Spell?). I envy you. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 13:21:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 13:21:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2749 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 13:21:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2745 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 13:21:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 13:21:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B94719B40; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 23:21:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 731E5199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 23:20:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <50a3e901be0b691fd3f3637d002cbb9f@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Unix trampoline. From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 13:21:58 +0900 > Now, if you'll excuse me, I've > got to catch a train to St. Petersburg.... Then, you can enjoy the play of orchestra conducted by Gergiev (Spell?). I envy you. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 14:29:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 14:29:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4891 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 14:29:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4887 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 14:29:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 14:29:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0D65D19B25; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 00:29:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1EF1E199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 00:28:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1H5Rsmt003970 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 07:27:57 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h1H5RqIS003969 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 07:27:53 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Ugly hack Message-ID: <20030217072751.R9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030216170019.Q9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from Russ Cox on Sun, Feb 16, 2003 at 10:40:31AM -0500 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 07:27:51 +0200 On Sun, Feb 16, 2003 at 10:40:31AM -0500, Russ Cox wrote: > > My impression was that you were trying to make > > echo */ > and > echo */. > > match only the directories. The fact that > Agreed. The original intent was indeed that. > access("/adm/users/.", 0) > > succeeds is a kernel bug and not something the shell > should be trying to hack around. The dotdot paper > shows a good example (ksh) of what confusion > results when user-level programs try to fix kernel bugs > (in that case, the handling of dotdot). > Appreciated. That was the problem raised by Geoff and he was quite right to surmise where the problem originated. However, the change I made to the shell was flawed, so I both fixed my error _and_ accidentally bypassed the kernel flaw. I wasn't aiming to do the latter. > Put another way, the definition of */. is (on Unix > or on Plan 9) all the valid paths you get by substituting > a name in the current directory for the star. > It so happens that this set is different on Plan 9, > and that is in fact a bug caused by early cleaning > of the names, and nothing more. It's not the shell's > fault, and it's certainly not the shell's place to patch > it up. > Accepted. But I've no idea how to fix it, so I leave that to superior intellects. That should cause pdksh to come right of its own accord. > In the process you appear to have improved rc's > performance somewhat, by using the extra information > you get from a Plan 9 readdir as opposed to a Unix readdir, > and that's nice, but not what I was referring to. > Indeed. As long as we agree that my changes to the shell were not aimed at fixing Geoff's anomaly, but rather to fix my poor understanding of the shell code in the initial attempt (which failed miserably on /bin/*/*, incidentally). ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 14:53:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 14:53:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5671 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 14:53:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5667 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 14:53:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 14:53:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2C40219B3D; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 00:53:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3A48B199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 00:52:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA23965 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 00:52:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1H5qYM16586 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 00:52:34 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302170552.h1H5qYM16586@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Dan Cross Subject: [9fans] Replica/pull weirdness? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 00:52:34 -0500 Imagine the following scenario: If replica/pull runs, and the server connection dies for some weird reason, it's possible that pull will try to remove the client log file and error out and die. If that's the case, the next time pull runs, it'll try and remove the client log file again. However, this time, it won't be able to because the client log file won't exist. The must function will see rm fail and cause pull to fail. The solution will be for someone to touch the client log file and run pull again, but it'll be pretty confusing initially. Shouldn't the ``must rm $clientlog'' line in pull be ``must rm -f $clientlog'' instead? - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 16:17:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 16:17:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9097 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 16:17:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9093 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 16:17:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 16:17:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0632319A73; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 02:17:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9A71C199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 02:16:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA04415 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 02:16:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1H7GlM17195 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 02:16:47 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302170716.h1H7GlM17195@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Unix trampoline. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:37:10 EST." <200302170337.h1H3bAM15543@augusta.math.psu.edu> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 02:16:47 -0500 (Of course, one can also use sshnet, but where's the fun in that?) - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 16:31:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 16:31:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9519 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 16:31:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9515 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 16:31:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 16:31:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9DCF719B3F; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 02:31:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mta202-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta202-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.145]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 329D519A0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 02:30:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.141]) by mta202-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20030217073039.BFFI1626.mta202-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:30:39 +1300 Received: from [210.54.206.123] by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20030217073038.BCFD19653.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.54.206.123]> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:30:38 +1300 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) From: "Andrew Simmons" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20030217073038.BCFD19653.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.54.206.123]> Subject: [9fans] fidtab revisited Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:28:10 +1300 Pondering further on fidtab, I was wondering if anyone had any statistics on the average and maximum number of fids in the table for any given connection to u9fs. Since a hash table was considered appropriate, I would guess that quite a few fids were anticipated, but since the current implementation is effectively a linked list, I would also guess that there are not that many in practice. My interest in this is that I'm tooling around with a knock-off of u9fs running as an NT service serving NT files, mainly as an exercise to nail down my understanding of how 9p works. On a slightly related note, ever since reading "The Practice of Programming", I had vaguely assumed that the pack and unpack routines in chapter 9 were derived from 9p, but on reading the Plan 9 code it appears that the marshalling and unmarshalling work is done by a number of preprocessor macros. I'd be interested to know, if it's not confidential, where pack and unpack are actually in use, and also why they aren't used in Plan 9. And finally. Dan Cross, get back to bed and take some paracetamol and get a good night's sleep, or I'll ask Jim Choate to go to St. Petersburg with you as an interpreter. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 16:35:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 16:35:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9640 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 16:35:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9636 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 16:35:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 16:35:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 513B319B42; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 02:35:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 62B24199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 02:34:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.7) with ESMTP id 469605 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 01:34:21 -0600 Message-ID: <1dbc7ea6ef89cf041b6b65001c0d4f53@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fidtab revisited From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <20030217073038.BCFD19653.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.54.206.123]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 23:33:53 -0800 Pack and unpack were freshly written for the book. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 17:10:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 17:10:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11142 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 17:10:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11138 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 17:10:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 17:10:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 80DFC19B45; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 03:10:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3E90C19B1D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 03:09:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA11257 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 03:09:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1H89gM17592 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 03:09:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302170809.h1H89gM17592@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Dan Cross Subject: [9fans] One more question.... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 03:09:42 -0500 Okay, I'm going to bed shortly. Just one more question: why doesn't srvssh take an argument to turn on pseudo-tty requests? That'd maybe speed up talking to u9fs. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 17:45:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 17:45:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12035 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 17:45:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12031 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 17:45:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 17:45:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 361AE19B43; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 03:45:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E07B119B35 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 03:44:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] keyboard From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <20030216164012.28582.qmail@mail.prosyst.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:44:24 +0100 If you are into changing your key map, you can also try a keboard driver under /sources/nemo/ that has multiple keymaps in. (It was made by people from 9fans). I'd be happy to add your table if you send it when done. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 18:47:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 18:47:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13933 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 18:47:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13929 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 18:47:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 18:47:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 18A5819B1D; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 04:47:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from netscape.com (r2d2.aoltw.net [64.236.137.26]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E38C1199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 04:46:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from yoda.mcom.com (yoda.ie.office.aol.com [10.128.72.204]) by netscape.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id h1H9k7Y14421 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 01:46:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from will551 ([10.128.73.153]) by yoda.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id HAG5SR00.TD5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:46:03 +0000 Message-ID: <046301c2d669$5f7a5cc0$9949800a@will551> From: "Conor Williams" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200302170809.h1H89gM17592@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Subject: [9fans] acd compile problem Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:45:57 -0000 hey Russ tried compiling acd at the wend but its looking for type Fconv and it doesnt know what threadprint is either. Am I missing some development includes/libs? thanks will551 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 18:52:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 18:52:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14176 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 18:52:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14172 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 18:52:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 18:52:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 930C919B46; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 04:52:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nigel.9fs.org (cotswold.demon.co.uk [194.222.75.186]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7BC1F19A0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 04:51:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acd compile problem From: nigel@9fs.org In-Reply-To: <046301c2d669$5f7a5cc0$9949800a@will551> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-mdjrzjcclvqspbljvlwvgxkcjs" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:53:58 0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-mdjrzjcclvqspbljvlwvgxkcjs Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On the off-chance that Russ is not still awake (awake yet), the source for acd is actually 3rd edition, but the changes are slight. Fconv has been replaced by fmtinstall(2), and threadprint is now simply print. --upas-mdjrzjcclvqspbljvlwvgxkcjs Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from 9fs.org ([192.168.100.103]) by 9fs.org; Mon Feb 17 09:49:31 GMT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by 9fs.org; Mon Feb 17 09:49:30 GMT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2086A19B41; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 04:47:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from netscape.com (r2d2.aoltw.net [64.236.137.26]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E38C1199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 04:46:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from yoda.mcom.com (yoda.ie.office.aol.com [10.128.72.204]) by netscape.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id h1H9k7Y14421 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 01:46:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from will551 ([10.128.73.153]) by yoda.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id HAG5SR00.TD5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:46:03 +0000 Message-ID: <046301c2d669$5f7a5cc0$9949800a@will551> From: "Conor Williams" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200302170809.h1H89gM17592@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Subject: [9fans] acd compile problem Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:45:57 -0000 hey Russ tried compiling acd at the wend but its looking for type Fconv and it doesnt know what threadprint is either. Am I missing some development includes/libs? thanks will551 --upas-mdjrzjcclvqspbljvlwvgxkcjs-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 19:04:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 19:04:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14590 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 19:04:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14586 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 19:04:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 19:04:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 47B4319B49; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 05:04:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from work (unknown [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8592519B44 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 05:03:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <835c48588efa9dda0624944017533690@snellwilcox.com> From: "Steve Simon" To: 9fans@snellwilcox.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] ../ip/ip.c Bipck name not declared Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:59:14 0000 Hi, After replica/pull on recompiling the kernel I get: warning: ../ip/ip.c:234 auto declared and not used: pr ../ip/ip.c:450 name not declared: Bipck An incomplete push or have I got out of sync ? Also: I am trying to build a boot floppy, /sys/src/9/pc/mk doesn't have rules to build bzfs.root.8 and bzroot.root.8. I am obviously mssing somthing... -Steve From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 19:05:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 19:05:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14620 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 19:05:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14616 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 19:05:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 19:05:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 41A5119B4B; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 05:05:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 657AD19B47 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 05:04:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18khyn-0001sk-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:54:29 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Rick Henderson Message-ID: Organization: Bell Sympatico Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] New to Plan9: Greetings and Questions Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:54:00 GMT Hello all, I spent most of my evening reading through so posts from the last few days, this is my first time to the list. Hi! In my day job I teach Java tutorials for a 2nd year Advanced Datastructures course at a Canadian university, and for last weeks tutorial a student asked, "What is Unix anyway? I keep hearing about it but don't know what it is." Now, not to comment on the low quality of today's education, but this was week 6 of a course where the students were expected to do all their work on a Solaris workstation and all our tutorials are in our Solaris lab... but thats beside the point. So we had a grand old talk about unix and who built it and other developments in the OS world. So when I went back to my office to get my facts right, I came across Plan 9. So here I am. Got it installed today and before I get too involved in the comings and goings of Plan 9 Philosophy, I just need some help getting it to run well on a P2 266 with a crappy monitor: If I'm using the glenda account and the windows manager is running (rio, right?) is there a way I can change the resolution down to 640x480? At 800x600 I get the last 2 inches of my screen going all fuzzy (like I said, crappy monitor but Win98 worked ok with the right drivers..its a Daytek). It also seems to have major trouble refreshing the screen, so I can't even read most of what is going on in Acme and I end up with copies of the right-click menu left all over the place. I can do a little work with the term% window, but only if I resize the window. Is there away I can run the glenda user without rio? using %kill rio doesn't seem to really do anything major, except the processes appear to no longer be running (from ps). I apologize for the new questions, I had a little experience in Unix/Solaris but forgot most of it when I started taking teaching seriously. Besides I'm normally teaching 1st year students how to use Word/Excel and Access. ( I don't know how I make it thru the week either.) Thanks, Rick PS: Love the bunny. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 19:05:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 19:05:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14629 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 19:05:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14625 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 19:05:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 19:05:39 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BFE6E19B47; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 05:05:24 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5EDFC199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 05:04:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18khy3-0001oX-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:53:43 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3E4DCF3C.6020108@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <9e468919efc946c025cece890686df57@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk>, <98b94a6949552dc3aa03d60ef4d245ef@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:53:11 GMT David Presotto wrote: > not too mention having to recompile the compiler every now and > then with a bigger symbol table, 14 character file names, fixed > size process table, ... Mostly those constraints were inherited from the PDP-11 platform, which supported only 16 bits of process address space. Consider that other PDP-11 OSes had even more restrictive file name limits. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 19:06:10 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 19:06:10 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14658 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 19:06:10 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14654 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 19:06:09 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 19:06:09 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CC41119B4F; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 05:05:34 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6619819B4A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 05:04:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18ki8a-0002Hi-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:04:36 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: maynard Message-ID: <39272337.0302141925.73d86994@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] Question About 9p headers... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:04:04 GMT Greetings, [preamble] I'm at the low end of a re-leaning curve of Plan 9 so be nice :) I'm currently working on a 9p stub for an embedded controler exporting a (not yet fully defined) local namespace. The problem (or confusion) I am having is; not knowing fully the header files that will be necessary to write the stub. Lack of intrinsics knowledge, coupled with a bastardized (not fully ansi/posix) compiler is not helping (i.e. enum, pragma, etc. !supported). Other aspects are covered like tcp/ip stack, loader libs are supplied and not an issue. Finding like code examples are a little scarce (as far as i can tell). If anyone can ->me to some stub examples, or let me know the headers that would be required...sigh I'm already greatful :). In case you're wondering, yes I'm stuck using this compiler since is contains the controller bios, loader,etc. no time to develop that kinda thing. I have considered Limbo/Styx but... /shrug not would prefer to do it using just 9p proper. (Plus not sure if it is 9pv4 ready) Thanks in advace Maynard From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 19:06:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 19:06:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14677 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 19:06:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14673 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 19:06:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 19:06:48 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 61B9B19B53; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 05:05:46 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 83C7F199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 05:04:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18khxV-0001nJ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:53:09 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3E4DCED1.5030204@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <7ee3623d18f5d40b8d6f90007f008d46@collyer.net>, <9e468919efc946c025cece890686df57@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:53:01 GMT Richard Miller wrote: > 6th edition Unix was not altogether free of arbitrary limits. For > example, userids were 8-bit integers ... As I recall the inode link count was 8 bits and link(2) didn't check for overflow, resulting in a black hole where a file ued to be.. I have this dream where *all* integers on a system are open-ended, so one can never overflow their capability to represent (except by running out of RAM or disk, etc.). We know how to represent integers efficiently; what is lacking is direct hardware arithmetic support. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 19:07:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 19:07:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14711 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 19:07:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14706 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 19:07:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 19:07:38 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E544419B57; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 05:06:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 70A4019B47 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 05:05:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18khy4-0001oj-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:53:44 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: John Kodis Message-ID: Organization: NASA Goddard Space Flight Center (skates.gsfc.nasa.gov) References: <20030215174605.I9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] Ugly hack Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:53:36 GMT In article <20030215174605.I9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za>, Lucio De Re wrote: > I've found the ability to limit shell command line argument expansion > (only in English can one write something so succintly and so ugly) to > directories rather than all directory entries by suffixing the last > part with a "/". This is normal behaviour in the NetBSD shells. You could say this in an even uglier and more succinct fashion by writing "globbing" instead of "shell command line argument expansion". > broken! echo rdesk* > rdesktop-1.1.0 rdesktop-1.1.0.tar > broken! cd rdesk*/ > broken! pwd > /usr/lucio/Projects/Sundry/rdesktop-1.1.0 While I recognize that this would be a generally useful mechanism, in this particular case, I'd just use filename completion: I'd type "cd rdesk", this gets completed to rdesktop-1.1.0, I hit return and I'm done. If you're interested in prior art in this area, you may want to look over the man page for zsh glob qualifiers at http://zsh.sourceforge.net/Doc/Release/zsh_13.html#SEC62 In zsh, *(/) expands to all directories, *(*) expands to a executable plain files, *(W,X) expands to all world-writable or world-executable files, and the complexity spirals rapidly out of control from there. -- John Kodis Goddard Space Flight Center kodis@mail630.gsfc.nasa.gov Greenbelt, Maryland, USA From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 19:08:14 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 19:08:14 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14732 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 19:08:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14728 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 19:08:13 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 19:08:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7465719B61; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 05:06:26 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6DBBC199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 05:05:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18khy4-0001od-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:53:44 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3E4DD1E5.6090101@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <3E4C66DC.4000604@null.net>, Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:53:23 GMT Ronald G. Minnich wrote: > On Fri, 14 Feb 2003, Douglas A. Gwyn wrote: >>The use of set-UID-0 *applications* on Unix was extremely >>short-sighted. > Hey, it was worth a patent. ... Perhaps you missed the point I was making. The capability of executing a process with enhanced privilege was fine, but should have been used only to implement an access control layer or service, not to elevate every operation in a high-level application to superuser privilege. At BRL we spent many man-months fixing security holes in Research Unix but even more for BSD, where evidently the quickest implementation was usually the one chosen, without much regard for security ramifications. That would have been adequate for a single trusted error-free user, but not in a networked timesharing environment. CERT still receives security problem reports for bind, sendmail, etc., and many of them can be directly attributed to a set-UID process having at some point during execution more privilege than it needs to perform its intended function. It's experiences like that that make me a big fan of capability-based systems architecture. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 19:09:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 19:09:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14754 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 19:09:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14750 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 19:09:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 19:09:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 012E719B54; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 05:09:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nigel.9fs.org (cotswold.demon.co.uk [194.222.75.186]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ECFA419B58 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 05:08:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <6953f850182ae5a89b8b98b101d1ce5a@9fs.org> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] New to Plan9: Greetings and Questions From: nigel@9fs.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-xsembtjeqgthpzwbggsdifwncs" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:10:36 0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-xsembtjeqgthpzwbggsdifwncs Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alter the environment variable vgasize to be 640x480x8 in plan9.ini. --upas-xsembtjeqgthpzwbggsdifwncs Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from 9fs.org ([192.168.100.103]) by 9fs.org; Mon Feb 17 10:07:28 GMT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by 9fs.org; Mon Feb 17 10:07:28 GMT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 66BAB19B47; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 05:05:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 657AD19B47 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 05:04:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18khyn-0001sk-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:54:29 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Rick Henderson Message-ID: Organization: Bell Sympatico Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] New to Plan9: Greetings and Questions Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:54:00 GMT Hello all, I spent most of my evening reading through so posts from the last few days, this is my first time to the list. Hi! In my day job I teach Java tutorials for a 2nd year Advanced Datastructures course at a Canadian university, and for last weeks tutorial a student asked, "What is Unix anyway? I keep hearing about it but don't know what it is." Now, not to comment on the low quality of today's education, but this was week 6 of a course where the students were expected to do all their work on a Solaris workstation and all our tutorials are in our Solaris lab... but thats beside the point. So we had a grand old talk about unix and who built it and other developments in the OS world. So when I went back to my office to get my facts right, I came across Plan 9. So here I am. Got it installed today and before I get too involved in the comings and goings of Plan 9 Philosophy, I just need some help getting it to run well on a P2 266 with a crappy monitor: If I'm using the glenda account and the windows manager is running (rio, right?) is there a way I can change the resolution down to 640x480? At 800x600 I get the last 2 inches of my screen going all fuzzy (like I said, crappy monitor but Win98 worked ok with the right drivers..its a Daytek). It also seems to have major trouble refreshing the screen, so I can't even read most of what is going on in Acme and I end up with copies of the right-click menu left all over the place. I can do a little work with the term% window, but only if I resize the window. Is there away I can run the glenda user without rio? using %kill rio doesn't seem to really do anything major, except the processes appear to no longer be running (from ps). I apologize for the new questions, I had a little experience in Unix/Solaris but forgot most of it when I started taking teaching seriously. Besides I'm normally teaching 1st year students how to use Word/Excel and Access. ( I don't know how I make it thru the week either.) Thanks, Rick PS: Love the bunny. --upas-xsembtjeqgthpzwbggsdifwncs-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 19:55:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 19:55:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15563 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 19:55:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15558 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 19:55:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 19:55:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E58FC19B41; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 05:55:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5209C19995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 05:54:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <7847777c7c564ae32cdad5f42a3601f7@plan9.escet.urjc.es> From: Fco.J.Ballesteros To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Question About 9p headers... In-Reply-To: <39272337.0302141925.73d86994@posting.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 11:54:21 +0100 The 9p(2) manual page suggests some nice examples. Although they're implemented using libraries that make it easier, the code in the libraries is easy to read too. IMHO, that's a good place to start. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 20:33:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 20:33:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16386 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 20:33:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16382 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 20:33:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 20:33:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 00D4119B44; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 06:33:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-227.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.227]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7DACC19A0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 06:32:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <92d7d2b250ac5638b5c07aa37f25621b@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <3E4DD1E5.6090101@null.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 03:32:49 -0800 > CERT still receives security problem reports for bind, sendmail, etc., As I commented to friends recently, > I've just been looking at the security bugs fixed in the pre-release > of freebsd 5.0 and it's dozens (maybe hundreds) of nasty bugs. Worse, > it's the usual suspects: buffer overflows, bugs in BIND and the DNS > resolver, bugs in sendmail (inconceivable!). It's twenty years on, and lunix distributions still include sendmail and BIND, despite their size, slowness, complexity, buginess, painful configuration files and long history of security bugs, usually due to buffer overruns. There are certainly plausible alternatives to sendmail available. I'm not sure about BIND, but I'd rather port dns and whatever machinery it needs to Unix than deal with BIND again. The stupidity of permitting (nay, encouraging) forward and reverse maps to differ is bad enough, but it nibbles at you, with manually-maintained zone serial numbers and trailings dots and just endless crap. (Of course, the DNS itself won't win any beauty contests, but that's a harder problem.) The first security measures I take when installing lunix are: - find any sendmail processes and kill them all. - find all sendmail binaries, set permissions to 0 and then remove them. - find any sendmail queue directories or configuration files and remove them. What's wrong with these lunix people, are they stupid or something? ☺ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 21:08:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 21:08:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16794 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 21:08:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16790 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 21:08:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 21:08:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A162819B4C; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 07:08:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE8C519995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 07:07:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1HC6vmt004649 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 14:06:59 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h1HC6sHS004648 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 14:06:54 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... Message-ID: <20030217140651.D9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <3E4DD1E5.6090101@null.net> <92d7d2b250ac5638b5c07aa37f25621b@collyer.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <92d7d2b250ac5638b5c07aa37f25621b@collyer.net>; from Geoff Collyer on Mon, Feb 17, 2003 at 03:32:49AM -0800 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 14:06:52 +0200 On Mon, Feb 17, 2003 at 03:32:49AM -0800, Geoff Collyer wrote: > > It's twenty years on, and lunix distributions still include sendmail > and BIND, despite their size, slowness, complexity, buginess, painful > configuration files and long history of security bugs, usually due to > buffer overruns. There are certainly plausible alternatives to ... and bash. What are you suggesting? I run sendmail by choice, even direct requests to move on to qmail or postfix I meet with a "as long as someone else does the administration and maintenance". Do I really need to move out of my comfort zone? Well, I _am_ here to learn, but I don't have the confidence to move away yet. Incidental, perhaps, but I'm a lot more fearful of MS Exchange. I seldom look at Sendmail sources, but there's definitely some value in their availability. I suspect that applies to others in the lunix fold. > sendmail available. I'm not sure about BIND, but I'd rather port dns > and whatever machinery it needs to Unix than deal with BIND again. > The stupidity of permitting (nay, encouraging) forward and reverse > maps to differ is bad enough, but it nibbles at you, with > manually-maintained zone serial numbers and trailings dots and just > endless crap. (Of course, the DNS itself won't win any beauty > contests, but that's a harder problem.) > That's DNS, not BIND. If the RFC demanded one-to-one relationships between IPs and names, BIND would have been different indeed. Or are you suggesting that BIND's implementation of zones predates the RFCs? > What's wrong with these lunix people, are they stupid or something? ? I guess so. My take is that the _real_ choices are not as obvious as they may be to an outsider. For one, legacy _does_ exist and has to be dealt with. I have NetBSD installations, all of them to be subsumed into a single server "real soon now" varying from 1.1 through 1.2.1, 1.3, 1.4.2, 1.5.2 to 1.6. Upgrading is a real pain. And Plan 9 has no upgrade path that is superior where it really matters, namely in the configuration files. Now imagine if I had to roll my own mail exchanger, DNS server and other useful tools (web server, proxy, you name it). I do note that on the NetBSD mailing list the sendmail vs postscript debate is veering to taking both of those off the distribution, replacing them with mini-sendmail (by Jef Poskanzer - if memory serves and my spelling neurons are firing right). So there is an awareness that bigger is not better and that alternatives must be sought. But I suspect it is a groundswell movement: it needs the background noise to increase, rather than have some shrill complaints in the foreground. I call it democracy, but of course in a techno forum that is usually taken to mean sheepocracy. The result is the same :-) ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 22:29:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 22:29:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18004 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 22:29:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18000 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 22:29:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 22:29:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1933D19B4D; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 08:29:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from diogenis.ceid.upatras.gr (diogenis.ceid.upatras.gr [150.140.141.181]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0C92D199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 08:28:23 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 29335 invoked by uid 1556); 17 Feb 2003 13:26:38 -0000 From: Anastasopoulos S To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] VMware and Plan9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:26:38 +0200 (EET) Hi A question more about VMware than Plan9 but i assume some other 9fan already solved this. I use vmware3.2-2230 on a Win2kSP2 host with a 3 button ps2 mouse. The problem is that plan9 does not `see' the middle button which works fine with windows applications(sam for instance). Does anyone has a hint?(Shift + button3 is very annoying) or can give a link for a new ps2 mouse driver Thanks Spyros From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 22:37:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 22:37:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18233 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 22:37:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18229 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 22:37:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 22:37:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CDB3919B4A; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 08:37:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AA9C1199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 08:36:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: X-Plan9-Fortune: apmd[105]: On-line: * * * (100% unknown) From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... In-Reply-To: <20030217140651.D9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 08:36:47 -0500 > I do note that on the NetBSD mailing list the sendmail vs postscript > debate is veering to taking both of those off the distribution, postscript, hands down, though pdf is pretty good too. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 22:43:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 22:43:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18311 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 22:43:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18307 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 22:43:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 22:43:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 203AF19B50; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 08:43:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1CD1019B50 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 08:41:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1HDfYmt004806 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:41:36 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h1HDfX3l004805 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:41:33 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... Message-ID: <20030217154130.G9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030217140651.D9084@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from Russ Cox on Mon, Feb 17, 2003 at 08:36:47AM -0500 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:41:31 +0200 On Mon, Feb 17, 2003 at 08:36:47AM -0500, Russ Cox wrote: > > > I do note that on the NetBSD mailing list the sendmail vs postscript > > debate is veering to taking both of those off the distribution, > > postscript, hands down, though pdf is pretty good too. Oops. I do check spelling, but I don't re-read what I wrote very carefully :-( "postfix". ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 22:43:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 22:43:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18318 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 22:43:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18314 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 22:43:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 22:43:39 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F369219B58; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 08:43:24 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2355619B50 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 08:42:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3e404a93849c1c073f4ece3dc442ec5b@plan9.bell-labs.com> X-Plan9-Fortune: Impotent as a dry sardine gnashing its teeth. From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Question About 9p headers... In-Reply-To: <39272337.0302141925.73d86994@posting.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 08:42:37 -0500 If you are doing something embedded, you may not be able to fit all the extra checks that lib9p does. Have a look at /sys/src/cmd/ramfs.c, which is a good small standalone functioning 9P server. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 23:06:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 23:06:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18830 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 23:06:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18826 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 23:06:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 23:06:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 71F4D19B51; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:06:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 401FE199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:05:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <48dfd754f4cdbc9c31307bd3fd4a8c9f@plan9.bell-labs.com> X-Plan9-Fortune: Always go for overkill. -Lou Reed From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] One more question.... In-Reply-To: <200302170809.h1H89gM17592@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:05:47 -0500 > Okay, I'm going to bed shortly. Just one more question: why doesn't > srvssh take an argument to turn on pseudo-tty requests? That'd maybe > speed up talking to u9fs. but it does! the -r and -R options try to do this. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 23:30:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 23:30:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19077 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 23:30:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19073 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 23:30:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 23:30:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 28EEB19B56; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:30:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 79C76199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:29:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ../ip/ip.c Bipck name not declared In-Reply-To: <835c48588efa9dda0624944017533690@snellwilcox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-cknuwdzlzdkqopihzpfbyxqhpe" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:29:20 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-cknuwdzlzdkqopihzpfbyxqhpe Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fixed. Jmk and I are in the middle of getting hardware supported checksums working and I didn't push the header file containing Bipck when I pushed ip.c. Sorry bout that. --upas-cknuwdzlzdkqopihzpfbyxqhpe Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Feb 17 05:04:22 EST 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Mon Feb 17 05:04:19 EST 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1DE3019B48; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 05:04:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from work (unknown [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8592519B44 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 05:03:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <835c48588efa9dda0624944017533690@snellwilcox.com> From: "Steve Simon" To: 9fans@snellwilcox.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] ../ip/ip.c Bipck name not declared Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:59:14 0000 Hi, After replica/pull on recompiling the kernel I get: warning: ../ip/ip.c:234 auto declared and not used: pr ../ip/ip.c:450 name not declared: Bipck An incomplete push or have I got out of sync ? Also: I am trying to build a boot floppy, /sys/src/9/pc/mk doesn't have rules to build bzfs.root.8 and bzroot.root.8. I am obviously mssing somthing... -Steve --upas-cknuwdzlzdkqopihzpfbyxqhpe-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 23:33:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 23:33:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19106 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 23:33:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19102 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 23:33:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 23:33:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 48D1819B5A; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:33:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4EE0F199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:32:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <01b44d51cc3bf724b4857f2e167b3825@plan9.bell-labs.com> X-Plan9-Fortune: Growth itself becomes the only moral end. -John Dewey From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fidtab revisited In-Reply-To: <20030217073038.BCFD19653.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.54.206.123]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:32:49 -0500 Pack and unpack were inspired by my 1998 attempts at writing an SMB client for Plan 9. The packets are these grotesque little blobs that have a certain amount of reason to them internally but not enough to make it easy to parse. The little mini-language made the code a lot shorter but in the end, a lot harder to understand and debug. I've since tossed it out and written traditional packet routines, though even that hasn't been enough to salvage the project (yet). The minilanguage for smb was nice mainly because there are redundant count fields scattered throughout the packet, and the assembler takes care of those automatically. 9P doesn't really need a packet assembler because things are so simple. The packet assembler would be just as long as the simple implementation. There's also something therapeutic about how direct that code is. (I've been playing with an Sun RPC compiler recently; trust me on this.) Here are some examples from the 1998 SMB code. The # separates request from reply formats. Inside each half, the | separates the "word" section from the "data" section. of the packet. *X and *D variable sized data in various guises. A appears to be a string. Russ static int PCsession(void) { ushort action; int l; l = strlen(smb.passwd); if(dosmb(SmbSessionX, Niltid, 1, "hhhhhlhl|*Xaaaa#hhh|", 0xff, 0, 7000, 1, 0, 0, l, 0, l, smb.passwd, "rsc", "rsc-land", "plan9", "plan9", nil, nil, &action) < 0) return -1; chat("action=%x...", action); return 0; } static int PCtreecon(char *tree) { ushort tid; char str[1024]; smb.tree = strdup(tree); /* FIXME */ snprint(str, sizeof str, "\\\\%s\\%s", smb.servername, tree); strupr(str); chat("treecon(%s)...", str); if(dosmb(SmbTreeConn, Niltid, 1, "|AAA#hh|", str, smb.passwd, "A:", nil, &tid) < 0) return -1; return tid; } static int PCopen(char *fname, int mode) { char str[1024]; int fd; mode = (4<<4)|mode; /* no locking */ snprint(str, sizeof str, "%s", fname); /* FIXME XXX estrdup */ strupr(str); chat("\nopen(%s, 0x%x)...", str, mode); if(dosmb(SmbOpen, smb.tid, 1, "hh|A#hhllh|", mode, 0, str, &fd, nil, nil, nil, nil) < 0) return -1; return fd; } static int PCread(int fd, void *v, int off, int n) { if(dosmb(SmbRead, smb.tid, 1, "hhlh|#hll|*D", fd, n, off, 0, nil, nil, nil, &n, v) < 0) return -1; return n; } static int PCwrite(int fd, void *v, int off, int n) { if(dosmb(SmbWrite, smb.tid, 1, "hhlh|*D#h|", fd, n, off, 0, n, v, &n) < 0) return -1; return n; } static int PCcreate(char *fname, int mode, int perm) { int t, fd; USED(mode); t = time(0); perm = (perm & 0200) ? 0x20: 0x21; if(dosmb(SmbCreate, smb.tid, 1, "hl|A#h|", perm, t, fname, &fd) < 0) return -1; return fd; } From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 23:44:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 23:44:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19254 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 23:44:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19250 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 23:44:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 23:44:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5521719B35; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:44:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 13E9E199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:43:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: X-Plan9-Fortune: Leadership means taxes. From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] VMware and Plan9 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:43:25 -0500 Two things. First, go into Control Panel -> Mouse -> Trackpoint and make sure that the middle button setting is "neither" (there are three choices: "scrolling", "zooming", and "neither"). Second, start regedit. Look for HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE System CurrentControlSet Enum ACPI IBM3780 DeviceParameters You may have to substitute something else for IBM3780 depending on who makes your laptop. Find the one with keys named "MouseResolution", "MouseDataQueueSize", etc. Add a new DWORD variable "NumberOfButtons" with value 3. Now you should be okay. The problem is actually not the IBM-supplied mouse driver but the underlying Windows-supplied basic i8042 PS/2 mouse driver, on which the Trackpoint driver sits. The Windows driver expects the Trackpoint to respond to command E9 as the Logitech mice do, giving the number of buttons as the second byte. Unfortunately, the Trackpoint sends back some form of sampling resolution instead, and even more unfortunately the default resolution is encoded as 0x02, tricking Windows into thinking that there are but two mouse buttons on the Trackpoint. Since this is the Trackpoint controller simply implementing a different command E9, the only way to get the hardware to respond correctly is to turn it off in the BIOS, so that the external mouse can respond for itself. Happily, Windows is nothing if not configurable. The registry key makes Windows ignore what it has incorrectly interpreted the hardware to have said. DirectInput (which VMware uses, but most apps don't) ignores the middle button when it thinks the mouse has only two buttons. The stock Windows mouse path has no problem with a "two"-button mouse generating middle-button events. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 23:46:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 23:46:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19292 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 23:46:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19288 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 23:46:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 23:46:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 29E2419B5C; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:46:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3DC6919B52 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:45:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: X-Plan9-Fortune: A cow must graze where she is tied, or chew the rope off. From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acd compile problem In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:45:57 -0500 Nigel is right, except that acd _is_ 4th edition, at least in /acme/bin/source/acd. It's possible that my web page still has an old 3e copy, but the one in the distribution has been up-to-date for a few months now. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 17 23:49:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 17 23:49:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19309 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Feb 2003 23:49:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19305 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 23:49:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 23:49:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4544619B68; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:49:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [218.246.33.52]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C4C3C19B5E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:48:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from () by (8.11.2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h1HElAY10786 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:47:10 +0800 Message-ID: <1483CR1000017502@p1j2m3a4.pdhost.com> From: Jane Brooks To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=474595524.1045493074953.JavaMail.SYSTEM.emaserver2 X-EMA-CID: 14731058 X-EMA-LID: X-EMA-PC: 0f362f863a400 Subject: [9fans] plan9.aichi-u.ac.jp Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Jane Brooks List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:44:34 +0800 (CST) --474595524.1045493074953.JavaMail.SYSTEM.emaserver2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I thought you might be interested in getting in-depth knowledge about your web audience and web traffic patterns in a reliable and cost-effective way. 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We apologize for any inconvenience. http://p1j2m3a4.pdhost.com/pdsvr/www/r?1000017502.1483.3.huKAQr8asHNzX6 --474595524.1045493074953.JavaMail.SYSTEM.emaserver2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

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. --474595524.1045493074953.JavaMail.SYSTEM.emaserver2-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 00:01:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 00:01:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19570 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 00:01:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19566 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 00:01:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 00:01:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E73D719B5E; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:01:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E453219B59 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:00:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Feb 17 10:00:50 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Mon Feb 17 10:00:45 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] presentation preparation From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-xdcpmzapfxweqzhhyfpzymmgcs" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:00:42 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-xdcpmzapfxweqzhhyfpzymmgcs Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Attached are some presentations I've done using troff and page, along with tools that make them easier. You can play with the variables at the end of tmac.ppt (or the definitions themselves) to add color to various parts. I tend to shy away from color usually, though. The auth talk is black and white, while the oscpu presentation adds grey. 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+0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19607 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 00:03:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 00:03:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D8F519B6B; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:03:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4B8F519B66 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:02:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06909 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:02:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1HF2oM18992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:02:50 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302171502.h1HF2oM18992@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] One more question.... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:05:47 EST." <48dfd754f4cdbc9c31307bd3fd4a8c9f@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:02:50 -0500 > but it does! the -r and -R options try to do this. Oh. Yeah. ``Daddy says I should try to kill Bart. Want to see my mean face? Grr.... I can read.....'' (From the Simpson's rendition of Hamlet) - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 00:10:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 00:10:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19721 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 00:10:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19717 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 00:10:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 00:10:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6968819B64; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:10:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail501.nifty.com (mail501.nifty.com [202.248.37.209]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D9DD519B66 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:09:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (eatkyo900071.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp [210.229.24.71]) by mail501.nifty.com with ESMTP id h1HF8o6b021440 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 00:08:50 +0900 Subject: Re: [9fans] webfs from Python Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v482) From: Moroo Jun To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <4b948f68f42f405da66ebecd9116d2b2@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.482) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 00:08:48 +0900 On 2003.02.17, at 06:20, Russ Cox wrote: > perhaps you have to ctlfd.flush() Thank you for advice. This script get web page fine. webfs looks nice. import os web = open("/mnt/web/clone","rw") t=web.readlines() id=int(t[0]) base=os.path.join("/mnt/web/%d" % id) ctlfd=open(os.path.join(base,"ctl"),"w") ctlfd.write("url http://www.moroo.com/index.html") ctlfd.flush() bodyfd=open(os.path.join(base,"body"),"r") t=bodyfd.read(), print t web.close() From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 00:35:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 00:35:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19992 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 00:35:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19988 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 00:35:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 00:35:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B64E619B6D; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:35:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from work (unknown [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 64B1119B60 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:34:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: "Steve Simon" To: 9fans@snellwilcox.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] (no subject) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:30:45 0000 Subject pcflop, bzroot.8 bzfs.root.8 Him I'am trying to build an install floppy but the mkfile doesn't have rules to build either bzroot.8 nor bzfs.root.8. Where do they come from. -Steve From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 00:38:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 00:38:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20035 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 00:38:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20031 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 00:38:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 00:38:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9065819B72; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:38:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D83AA19B6E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:37:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Feb 17 10:37:13 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Mon Feb 17 10:37:11 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pcflop, bzroot.8 bzfs.root.8 From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:37:11 -0500 I broke the boot floppy build process when I added the bootdir stuff to the pc config files, and haven't fixed it yet. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 01:26:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 01:26:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20557 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 01:26:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20553 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 01:26:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 01:26:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AED6F19B62; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 11:26:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ED21719B60 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 11:25:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <9295bf201c8c0df8cf3eaf827a94cddd@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] presentation preparation From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-zdzujuryepvcuykozognkcauaa" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:25:03 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-zdzujuryepvcuykozognkcauaa Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit An alternative is to use either the foils macro package or a derivative. This is the one I use along with the respective mkfile with view, print, ... targets hth --upas-zdzujuryepvcuykozognkcauaa Content-Type: application/x-tar Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=slides.tgz Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 H4sIALIMUT4AA+08XXPbSHL3avyKPpd9lPdMCB8kJarK8enDinRZ21xLu9pcGFeGwJCCDQIM AErWOq5KnvOYhzzf4z2kUsm95eWq1v/kfkm6e2aAAUV6vVX25SFG7RJAT09/d08PDMF3k6wq cnc+/cVnOwBg0OsBnQG8lTP4/s6gD7DT7/v9oDfoewjrDwaDX8Avvhyf/XCPR5AuoyQWpchK Zzx94bjJzJm/BhMZi3jaum0NXiXy2nFdxxVLuPvjH+C4EFmUlFEOv3XhQKSpLCtZ5CWMu7A/ X6QuxBLOntPtKRGIl1GUvP9jdhccN4K7LRgISPPyLg+cJUhnLkp4vpCFqJIrJHmEsCKZLJOY scoFBIgrYTgcOpYcthiOew6ZnOe/WaQiG7qyjGTlLotXEV467sEItpdlsU0Y22ky2U7mYibL 7Vl5gwiLEvyEGXiOO1mwWD/+6Zvl+z+ALPG/Kn/sOK6Psh7tQS2vLSQOB3D3UMQCUIsyzwQs SwFXokhQnbyIZSbivJAa8Vym7/8wzbO8fAijQ/o52sdfmcqIrJTP3/+hrJKIhmUVuXoSDrA0 73+fgcygkLEa+PFPI7QARO//OM/hUkSoYwnlEsp8Wl2LQpLwtVaHOSLJ+UL+8P6Pj9X8rb9G +0WXD2CRVxJtK9CTKSyKPJIlSQ2PIIL3/44QGSX5n//lv9W0KM9gnkQFCwXz978vYSLQgzm8 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(CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E686F19B5F; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 11:45:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5346019991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 11:44:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Feb 17 11:44:39 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Mon Feb 17 11:44:37 EST 2003 Message-ID: <29ff765b7627605700181aa51d2cb3d7@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com Cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <24efd83371c8e8794f3320810a31713b@snellwilcox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Re: pcflop Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 11:44:37 -0500 I just pushed out a new pcflop config file and also a fixed /sys/lib/dist/pc/plan9.ini.vmware. You will have to edit whatever plan9.ini you are using to change local!/bzroot to local!/boot/bzroot. cd /sys/lib/dist/pc mk ndisk should work again. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 03:00:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 03:00:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21498 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 03:00:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21494 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 03:00:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 03:00:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 59D9019991; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 13:00:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 81C3719B48 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:59:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h1HHxLRV013504 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:59:21 -0700 Received: (qmail 29979 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2003 10:59:21 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 10:59:21 -0700 Received: (qmail 6353 invoked by uid 3499); 17 Feb 2003 10:59:21 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 17 Feb 2003 10:59:21 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fidtab revisited In-Reply-To: <20030217073038.BCFD19653.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.54.206.123]> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:59:21 -0700 (MST) On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, Andrew Simmons wrote: > Pondering further on fidtab, I was wondering if anyone had any statistics on > the average and maximum number of fids in the table for any given connection > to u9fs. Since a hash table was considered appropriate, I would guess that > quite a few fids were anticipated, but since the current implementation is > effectively a linked list, I would also guess that there are not that many > in practice. My interest in this is that I'm tooling around with a knock-off > of u9fs running as an NT service serving NT files, mainly as an exercise to > nail down my understanding of how 9p works. On v9fs on Linux, once the dcache came into the picture, we found fid use increased to the hundreds, pretty much to the sum of all files opened for the uptime of the machine, until such time as resources were needed. We capped fids at 256 to test our code for handling "out of fids" on the client (v9fs) side, and there we ran into an interesting problem. Linux dcache entry flushing is pretty primitive: you pretty much say 'flush all them there dcache entries for the superblock' and they all go away (preferable would be something SunOS did in some areas, which was to say 'try to flush 100 or so of "this thing"' but maybe Linux will improve in that area). Since we almost have the 9p2000 client working on linux now, I expect to get these numbers for u9fs -- I'll let you know. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 06:38:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 06:38:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23368 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 06:38:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23364 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 06:38:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 06:38:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C00B219A0C; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:38:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from thefrayedknot.armory.com (thefrayedknot.armory.com [192.122.209.39]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id EF0D7199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:37:53 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 19225 invoked by uid 1000); 17 Feb 2003 21:37:52 -0000 From: Andrew To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... Message-ID: <20030217213752.GA19153@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <3E4DD1E5.6090101@null.net> <92d7d2b250ac5638b5c07aa37f25621b@collyer.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <92d7d2b250ac5638b5c07aa37f25621b@collyer.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 13:37:52 -0800 > > It's twenty years on, and lunix distributions still include sendmail > and BIND, despite their size, slowness, complexity, buginess, painful > configuration files and long history of security bugs, usually due to > buffer overruns. There are certainly plausible alternatives to > sendmail available. I'm not sure about BIND, but I'd rather port dns well you obviously have something of an almost religous and uninformed view of linux, theres two things i want to point out, first not all linux distributions come with sendmail by default, mine certainly doesnt, and actively disuades anyone from running it. Next FreeBSD (OS/X included, i dont know about net or open bsd's), by default, come installed with sendmail, in the base system. A make world on the last freebsd (4.5) system wanted to build sendmail for me. Now before you go ragging on us linux people, out of everyone i've talked to who runs sendmail for religous reasons, every single one of them was a BSD person. Come to think of it, the only time ive spoken with a linux person who admitted to using sendmail did it many years ago when they needed some obscure feature only sendmail implemented. > The first security measures I take when installing lunix are: > > - find any sendmail processes and kill them all. > - find all sendmail binaries, set permissions to 0 and then remove them. > - find any sendmail queue directories or configuration files and remove them. > funny, ive never had to do that on a linux system. Maybe you shouldnt be using such an inferiour distribution. > What's wrong with these lunix people, are they stupid or something? ??? at least we can spell linux correctly. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 07:04:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 07:04:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23619 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 07:04:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23615 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 07:04:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 07:04:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 68F61199E3; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:04:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-227.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.227]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A2BFA199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:03:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4db7ae181d057f4a8d0d65b7b501ae91@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <20030217213752.GA19153@thefrayedknot.armory.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 14:03:27 -0800 Sorry, as I said earlier, I use "lunix" as shorthand for "unix and linux". I wasn't specifically criticising any given distribution (other than freebsd), but Unoid systems in general. I just find it hard to believe that after 20 years, some people are *still* shipping known security hazards like sendmail. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 07:08:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 07:08:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23693 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 07:08:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23689 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 07:08:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 07:08:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8AE0E19B48; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:08:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 25489199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:07:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Feb 17 17:07:47 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Mon Feb 17 17:07:44 EST 2003 Message-ID: <166ecaa936d957f43401872365276ad1@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <4db7ae181d057f4a8d0d65b7b501ae91@collyer.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:07:40 -0500 oh come on. sendmail doesn't have any bugs left. this time for sure! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 07:09:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 07:09:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23700 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 07:09:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23696 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 07:09:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 07:09:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 593A7199E4; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:09:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9BE8719B52 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:08:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.7) with ESMTP id 470179 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:08:20 -0600 Message-ID: <506b74fe73f255fd923ee3f5e5d6e688@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <4db7ae181d057f4a8d0d65b7b501ae91@collyer.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 14:07:50 -0800 > I just find it hard to believe that after 20 years, some people are > *still* shipping known security hazards like sendmail. Oh yeah? Well, I find it hard to believe that after twenty years you can't ls /dev to see how large your disks are, or that ps still thinks a controlling tty is a dominant idea in choosing which processes to display, or that ... Or that the system is still just like it was 20 years go, except for the crap that was added on, never cleaned up, and never made to fit together, let alone to be Unix-like in any way. Sockets? X? They're so, well, not Unix-like. It's sad. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 08:00:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 08:00:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24125 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 08:00:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24121 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 08:00:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 08:00:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6BE5219A77; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:00:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailhost.det2.ameritech.net (mailhost1-sfldmi.sfldmi.ameritech.net [206.141.193.105]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 630EE1999B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:59:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from ameritech.net ([67.38.15.139]) by mailhost.det2.ameritech.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with ESMTP id <20030217225943.ZNBC8853.mailhost.det2.ameritech.net@ameritech.net> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:59:43 -0500 Message-ID: <3E516934.1050806@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... References: <506b74fe73f255fd923ee3f5e5d6e688@mightycheese.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:59:00 -0500 I so love this list. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 08:11:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 08:11:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24223 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 08:11:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24219 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 08:11:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 08:11:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9DDAE19A77; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:11:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A9D9219991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:10:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Feb 17 18:10:21 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Mon Feb 17 18:10:19 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <506b74fe73f255fd923ee3f5e5d6e688@mightycheese.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:10:17 -0500 > Sockets? X? They're so, well, not Unix-like. It's also sad that there are so many people who believe sockets and X are exemplars of the Unix style. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 08:25:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 08:25:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24378 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 08:25:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24374 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 08:25:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 08:25:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 228FA199B7; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:25:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from garlic.apnic.net (garlic.apnic.net [202.12.29.224]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 84F64199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:24:20 -0500 (EST) Received: (from ggm@localhost) by garlic.apnic.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h1HNNFB00527; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:23:15 +1000 (EST) From: George Michaelson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... Message-Id: <20030218092315.46aa00cc.ggm@apnic.net> In-Reply-To: References: <506b74fe73f255fd923ee3f5e5d6e688@mightycheese.com> Organization: APNIC Pty Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.10claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--netbsdelf) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:23:15 +1000 STREAMS. so... upper-case-y. Perhaps if RFS had come along in a different year, we'd have felt different about making an RFS vs NFS decision. X was there, SunView was very proprietary. It could have been worse, we might have all been running smalltalk/LISP workstations. Maybe you'd rather be using PNX on a Perq? A system with an editor for the animated cursors? A system which let you see memory usage by stealing graphic memory for compilaton? The best thing about subjective criticism is usually the pint of beer which goes with it! P9 needs to write a better porn distribution protocol. Presuming at least 7 others have been tried before, how about its called PDP-8? -George > > Sockets? X? They're so, well, not Unix-like. > > It's also sad that there are so many people > who believe sockets and X are exemplars > of the Unix style. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 08:33:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 08:33:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24482 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 08:33:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24478 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 08:33:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 08:33:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3E5231998C; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:33:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8836D19992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:32:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14835 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:32:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1HNWuM21612 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:32:56 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302172332.h1HNWuM21612@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 17 Feb 2003 13:37:52 PST." <20030217213752.GA19153@thefrayedknot.armory.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:32:56 -0500 > well you obviously have something of an almost religous and uninformed > view of linux, Those in glass houses.... - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 08:36:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 08:36:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24533 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 08:36:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24529 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 08:36:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 08:36:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3B477199B7; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:36:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (mta07-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.47]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8A376199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:35:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from kike ([80.4.204.18]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20030217233504.WMTA3191.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@kike> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:35:04 +0000 Message-ID: <002501c2d6dd$372763c0$6501a8c0@kike> From: "matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:35:10 -0000 The new architects of Lunix [I like that word - I pronounce it Loonix] consider an increase in complexity progress : http://primates.helixcode.com/~miguel/bongo-bong.html "Bonobo is our proposed solution to create reusable software components in Unix and keeping the spirit of "Small is beautiful". Each component will focus on implementing a complete and correct set of interfaces and features. We have chosen CORBA as the foundation for our component architecture. " I particularly like the section on how much simpler system administration will be using CORBA components rather than text files. m From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 08:47:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 08:47:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24692 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 08:47:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24688 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 08:47:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 08:47:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 47406199BE; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:47:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from garlic.apnic.net (garlic.apnic.net [202.12.29.224]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5F64919991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:46:43 -0500 (EST) Received: (from ggm@localhost) by garlic.apnic.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h1HNjdt00575; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:45:39 +1000 (EST) From: George Michaelson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... Message-Id: <20030218094539.6ed5df24.ggm@apnic.net> In-Reply-To: <002501c2d6dd$372763c0$6501a8c0@kike> References: <002501c2d6dd$372763c0$6501a8c0@kike> Organization: APNIC Pty Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.10claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--netbsdelf) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:45:39 +1000 To be fair, an awful lot of mass hysteria accompanied the decision to go Corba. We see a lot of this kind of Millinarial 'at *last* the software mechanism which will deliver true ' chanting around the place. Dare I say that in my OSI days, I probably chanted quite a lot of it too. Most interesting to me is the drop in student registrations for I.T. degrees here in Australia, and a consequent drop in the entrance requirements to get into an I.T. degree. It never ceased to amaze me I passed my course. To see people achieve the same paper worth with even less effort is truly distressing. As I believe the Bible says, As you sow, you shall reap. Dumbing down is clearly delivering the inevitable outcome. Still, there are moments of humour. I just re-wrote some code here to shrink data using a classic tape-sort alg, iterating over the datastream. It runs like a greased whippet, its tiny code, and I had lots of fun doing it, and the advice to try such a simple method came from my erstwhile research director, a man of similarly jaded views of our times. Meanwhile the small army of code-orcs I manage beat out the Perl, in true OO fashion. Actually, there were moments of pain in this last bout of coding. inet_pton() is the newish function to map IPv6 and IPv4 addresses from presentation to network byte order. As you can imagine, managing 128-bit constructs winds up using a set of unions to see this as 8, 16 or 32 bit quantities, 128 bit registers being thin on the ground (oh why did we reject VLIW computers?). And predictably, NetBSD forces at least two of the useful #defines to be #ifdef KERNEL since they are 'non-standard' while RedHate promotes them into userspace, useful if alas tending towards the fork-in-the-code solution. Oh well. ever was it so. -George From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 09:44:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 09:44:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26439 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 09:44:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26435 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 09:44:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 09:44:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1A3B719991; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:44:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8A7F619992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:43:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h1I0hOqv014328 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:43:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <00f70240ed9f40be7e31a08ae604b047@centurytel.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: <20030218092315.46aa00cc.ggm@apnic.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:53:47 -0800 > Perhaps if RFS had come along in a different year, we'd have felt different > about making an RFS vs NFS decision. Enough time has passed for somebody to have come up with a better idea. > X was there, SunView was very proprietary. It could have been worse, we might > have all been running smalltalk/LISP workstations. Blit had been around since '82, and it was a better solution. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 09:46:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 09:46:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26636 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 09:46:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26632 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 09:46:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 09:46:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A28FD1999B; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:46:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BC815199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:45:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h1I0j4t24452 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:45:04 -0500 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Acme 3-1 chord Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:45:04 -0500 (EST) Does anyone find merit in letting the 3-1 chord in Acme have the effect of opening (if possible) the selected text in the current window instead of a new one, as in mouse-3? Cheers, Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 09:50:00 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 09:50:00 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26790 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 09:49:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26779 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 09:49:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 09:49:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 75EBF1999B; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:49:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1309A19995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:48:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: X-Plan9-Fortune: Warning: MS SQL message: Login failed for user 'webreadonly'. Reason: Not associated with a trusted SQL Server connection. (severity 14) in C:\Inetpub\www.escient.com\buy.php on line 136 From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Acme 3-1 chord In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:48:15 -0500 Umm, doesn't 3-1 paste? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 09:52:53 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 09:52:53 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26885 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 09:52:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26868 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 09:52:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 09:52:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B801199BE; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:52:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ducky.net (ducky.net [66.93.167.66]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C1B0219995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:51:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ducky.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ducky.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1I0pvuQ040038 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:51:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@ducky.net) Received: (from mike@localhost) by ducky.net (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id h1I0pvI1040037 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:51:57 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Haertel Message-Id: <200302180051.h1I0pvI1040037@ducky.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... In-Reply-To: <00f70240ed9f40be7e31a08ae604b047@centurytel.net> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:51:57 -0800 (PST) >Blit had been around since '82, and it was a better solution. X was free and ran on multiple hardware platforms. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 09:56:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 09:56:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27009 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 09:56:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27005 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 09:56:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 09:56:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9857D199BE; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:56:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BAB8419995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:55:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h1I0set24477 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:54:40 -0500 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Acme 3-1 chord In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:54:40 -0500 (EST) Perhaps I can answer that with a question ... Are you saying the code can't keep track of the order in which the buttons are pressed and that it only knows both buttons are down? Sam On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > Umm, doesn't 3-1 paste? > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 10:01:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 10:01:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27274 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 10:01:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27270 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 10:01:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 10:01:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 85AB419981; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:01:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5BE12199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:00:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Feb 17 20:00:43 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Mon Feb 17 20:00:41 EST 2003 Message-ID: <94f5719623a20dc09dcd5c34e25c5ef9@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Acme 3-1 chord From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:00:38 -0500 > Are you saying the code can't keep track of > the order in which the buttons are pressed > and that it only knows both buttons are > down? It's more subtle than that. I'm saying that my mind can't seem to tell my fingers to do a 3-1 chord. Half the time I try to do one, I do a 1-3 chord. Hence when I tried to do one after getting your email, the result was pasting, and I replied thinking 3-1 pasted. That aside, I would expect 3-1 to mean load with arguments. Giving it another meaning seems like a bad idea. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 10:07:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 10:07:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27485 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 10:07:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27481 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 10:07:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 10:07:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 34C32199ED; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:07:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 03DB919981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:06:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h1I15Tt24498 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:05:29 -0500 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Acme 3-1 chord In-Reply-To: <94f5719623a20dc09dcd5c34e25c5ef9@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:05:29 -0500 (EST) > That aside, I would expect 3-1 to mean load with > arguments. Giving it another meaning seems like > a bad idea. I completely agree. My first thought was 3-2, but it seems terribly awkward. "open this with this input" didn't seem like something we'ld need and the 3-1 is much more natural (think "open, here"). Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 10:34:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 10:34:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28508 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 10:34:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28504 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 10:34:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 10:34:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2B2871999B; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:34:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 20CAF19981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:33:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:34:53 +0900 >> Sockets? X? They're so, well, not Unix-like. > > It's also sad that there are so many people > who believe sockets and X are exemplars > of the Unix style. I think, at least, we were taught so. I can say this clearly that _I did not say so to Yoshitatsu_. It's my little proud! We had read several papers comming with Plan 9 distribution, and which is enough to tell a new commer what is Plan 9! I had failed many times before to teach unix (so called of course) to a new commer of our Univ., because it's too hard to understand to such a person. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 10:50:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 10:50:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29137 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 10:50:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29127 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 10:50:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 10:50:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E120619999; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:50:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 82A3519995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:49:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.7) with ESMTP id 470367 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:49:08 -0600 Message-ID: <4fcfb3bbe774ec1b2999da1a01690afe@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "rob pike, esq." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Acme 3-1 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:48:39 -0800 3-1 and 2-1 are already defined: they cancel button 3 and button 2 actions. I would object to giving them another meaning. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 10:54:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 10:54:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29250 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 10:54:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29246 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 10:54:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 10:54:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 09203199B3; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:54:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-227.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.227]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BF072199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:53:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <35295acdfaa858532d1e3008be26462c@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <506b74fe73f255fd923ee3f5e5d6e688@mightycheese.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:53:55 -0800 Rob makes a good point; I guess it's going to be 1983 forever in (l)unixland. (Quite a trick for Linux.) As for Bonobo, a private fortune file contains this comment: People admire complexity. - Rob Pike From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 11:14:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 11:14:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30143 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 11:14:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30138 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 11:14:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 11:14:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 94E991999B; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:14:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3EEE719981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:13:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11937 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:13:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1I2DuM22608 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:13:56 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302180213.h1I2DuM22608@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Dan Cross Subject: [9fans] New change to /sys/src/mkfile.proto breaks tex build. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:13:55 -0500 Clearing TARG in /sys/src/mkfile.proto breaks the tex build; /sys/src/cmd/tex/web2c/^(tex mf mp)^/mkfile sets TARG and includes ../texmfmp.mkfile, while includes /$objtype/mkfile, which includes /sys/src/mkfile.proto and clears TARG. Thus, rc gives a ``null list in concatenation'' error. :-( - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 11:24:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 11:24:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30471 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 11:24:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30467 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 11:24:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 11:24:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D6B6C19995; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:24:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B6B7C19980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:23:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Feb 17 21:23:33 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Mon Feb 17 21:23:31 EST 2003 Message-ID: <983e16cb72dae2473d8d91df1a63c232@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] New change to /sys/src/mkfile.proto breaks tex build. From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <200302180213.h1I2DuM22608@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:23:29 -0500 Thanks. I have added tex to the BUGGERED list in /sys/src/cmd/mkfile on sources. I fixed this in our own tex sources when I made the change. It hardly seems worth rebuilding the tex distribution. I refuse to get bogged down worrying about imported crap. The point of importing crap is to make life easier (by making crap we're forced to use available on Plan 9) not harder (by needing to maintain the crap distributions). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 11:40:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 11:40:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31040 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 11:39:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31028 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 11:39:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 11:39:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8ECAA19995; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:39:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0ADD119980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:38:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15414 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:38:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1I2cdM22829 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:38:39 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302180238.h1I2cdM22829@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] New change to /sys/src/mkfile.proto breaks tex build. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:23:29 EST." <983e16cb72dae2473d8d91df1a63c232@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:38:39 -0500 > Thanks. Sure. > I refuse to get bogged down worrying about imported crap. If it's not Scottish, it's crap! - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 11:52:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 11:52:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31538 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 11:52:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31534 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 11:52:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 11:52:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A4DBD199B3; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:52:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from garlic.apnic.net (garlic.apnic.net [202.12.29.224]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5BFA81998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:51:03 -0500 (EST) Received: (from ggm@localhost) by garlic.apnic.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h1I2nwi01010; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:49:58 +1000 (EST) From: George Michaelson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] New change to /sys/src/mkfile.proto breaks tex build. Message-Id: <20030218124958.12ee2fca.ggm@apnic.net> In-Reply-To: <200302180238.h1I2cdM22829@augusta.math.psu.edu> References: <983e16cb72dae2473d8d91df1a63c232@plan9.bell-labs.com> <200302180238.h1I2cdM22829@augusta.math.psu.edu> Organization: APNIC Pty Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.10claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--netbsdelf) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:49:58 +1000 On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:38:39 -0500 Dan Cross wrote: > > Thanks. > > Sure. > > > I refuse to get bogged down worrying about imported crap. > > If it's not Scottish, it's crap! > > - Dan C. 'If its not Scotch', I could understand. -George From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 12:06:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 12:06:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31972 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 12:06:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31967 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 12:06:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 12:06:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D9D54199B3; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:06:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 60C511998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:05:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <232bbafa0d000d2b42416f808ef4a29f@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:06:16 +0900 > I had failed many times before to teach unix (so called of course) > to a new commer of our Univ., because it's too hard to understand > to such a person. So, I think we can answer the qustion from andrey. Don't woryy about to involve 'Unix' people into Plan 9 world, because they will be fadeout soon... ☺ Some of them will follow us, if we could get success, anyway. It's the usual way of professionals. The most hard point of them is to make successors of themselves. Copying the idea is not hard, but it will face failure someday. ^_^ Kenji --Yes, I'm kidding today, because I'm too busy... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 12:20:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 12:20:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32343 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 12:20:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32339 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 12:20:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 12:20:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DF18719992; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:20:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from edoras.nas.com (edoras.nas.com [206.63.100.8]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B3DA919980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:19:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from nas.com (max2-d68.nas.com [206.63.102.197]) by edoras.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6738EEB60A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:19:11 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3E51B2DD.6070105@nas.com> From: Jack Johnson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.2a) Gecko/20020910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, es MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... References: <506b74fe73f255fd923ee3f5e5d6e688@mightycheese.com> <20030218092315.46aa00cc.ggm@apnic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:13:17 -0800 George Michaelson wrote: > X was there, SunView was very proprietary. It could have been worse, we might > have all been running smalltalk/LISP workstations. Some of us still are: http://www.squeak.org But on yet another light note, is there anything decent from the freenices that Plan 9 could benefit from, other than Mozilla's renderer? ReiserFS4? http://www.namesys.com/v4/v4.html -J From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 12:47:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 12:47:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 687 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 12:47:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 682 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 12:47:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 12:47:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BAD96199B7; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:47:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 16DF31998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:46:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Feb 17 22:46:32 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Mon Feb 17 22:46:29 EST 2003 Message-ID: <2b7734250ea80b15b2d33b23a713418e@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] new binaries on sources Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:46:27 -0500 To address a few months of library drift, I've recompiled and installed new 386 binaries and libraries on sources. Your next pull will get them. There is a new replica/applylog (the heart of pull) that, most notably, knows how to overwrite read-only files and also moves old binaries out of the way a la mk safeinstall when installing new binaries. You may want to do pull 386/bin/replica/applylog to make sure you get the new applylog, and then run pull (which will use the new applylog) to get the rest of the binaries. The sources snapshot CD has been updated, so you can download a CD image and use that to update your system if that's more convenient. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 12:50:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 12:50:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 803 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 12:50:52 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 773 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 12:50:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 12:50:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CD41B19992; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:50:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 520BC1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:49:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Okay, who's been playing with the cheese wiz? In-Reply-To: <200302092120.h19LKBM29830@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:49:24 -0500 > I've run into a couple of weird things recently. First, I noticed that > acme was commiting suicide after I tried to delete everything in a window > using, ``Edit 1,$d'' and then tried to edit normally. A stack trace for > that follows: Rob and I believe that this and a couple of obscure related bugs are now fixed, in both acme and sam. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 12:57:53 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 12:57:53 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 985 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 12:57:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 976 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 12:57:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 12:57:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 458D4199DD; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:57:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A1E0A19992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:56:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h1I3tbt24753 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:55:37 -0500 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Okay, who's been playing with the cheese wiz? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:55:37 -0500 (EST) Bugs found porting libregexp? Sam On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > > I've run into a couple of weird things recently. First, I noticed that > > acme was commiting suicide after I tried to delete everything in a window > > using, ``Edit 1,$d'' and then tried to edit normally. A stack trace for > > that follows: > > Rob and I believe that this and a couple of obscure > related bugs are now fixed, in both acme and sam. > > Russ > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 13:00:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 13:00:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1168 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 13:00:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1159 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 13:00:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 13:00:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 37339199B7; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:00:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3DF1119992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:59:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1I3xtGo027188 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 04:59:55 +0100 (MET) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1I3xrub010533 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 04:59:53 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id h1I3xrO09888 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 04:59:53 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200302180359.h1I3xrO09888@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/) Subject: [9fans] driver for old vga? (trident microsystems tvga8900) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 04:59:53 +0100 I'm trying to put some old hardware (back) to work. In particular, a very old video card that in the bios says TRIDENT MICROSYSTEMS and has a chip labeled tvga8900 . (TRIDENT TVGA BIOS C2.1?) This card did work with the 4-floppy 2nd edition distribution. Unfortunately, I was not (yet) able to access the old vgadb. Any chance that there is still a driver for it in 4th edition? Or an old 2nd edition one that I could try to reintegrate? Essentially, the system will be used as a server, so it is not a big deal, but would still be nice... I could not get the old vgadb from the old disk containing the 4-floppy install, because, with that disk in the system I'm trying to get working I get a kernel panic on boot. dev A0 port 170 config 0A5A capabilities 0001 mwdma 0000 FLAGS=10246 TRAP=0 ECODE=0 PC=80022367 AX fffffffe BX 00000000 CX 00000200 DX ffffffff SI fffffffe DI 80317874 BP 80317444 CS 0010 DS 0008 ES 0008 FS 0008 GS 0008 CR0 80000011 CR2 00000000 CR3 0000c000 panix: exception/interrupt 0 Axel. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 13:01:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 13:01:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1217 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 13:01:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1213 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 13:01:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 13:01:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6DD39199ED; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:01:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 91870199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:00:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26419 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:00:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1I40XM23702 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:00:33 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302180400.h1I40XM23702@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Okay, who's been playing with the cheese wiz? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:49:24 EST." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:00:32 -0500 > Rob and I believe that this and a couple of obscure > related bugs are now fixed, in both acme and sam. I just checked it a little bit ago; it is indeed fixed. Thanks. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 13:03:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 13:03:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1277 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 13:03:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1273 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 13:03:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 13:03:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DEF5E199EC; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:03:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0DC961998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:02:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Feb 17 23:02:47 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Mon Feb 17 23:02:44 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Okay, who's been playing with the cheese wiz? From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:02:40 -0500 Nothing to do with porting libregexp. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 13:10:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 13:10:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1492 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 13:10:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1488 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 13:10:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 13:10:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A505199DD; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:10:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 56B0D1998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:10:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Feb 17 23:09:59 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Mon Feb 17 23:09:57 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] driver for old vga? (trident microsystems tvga8900) From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <200302180359.h1I3xrO09888@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:09:54 -0500 I can't find any trace of a Trident TVGA 8900 in the 2e sources or vgadb. There are no bios strings looking looking anything like TRIDENT TVGA BIOS C2.1. The card probably only worked in 640x480x1 (one of the only standardized graphical VGA modes) which is no longer an option. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 13:16:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 13:16:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1710 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 13:16:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1706 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 13:16:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 13:16:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DF879199BB; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:16:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 204F319980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:15:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Feb 17 23:15:55 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Mon Feb 17 23:15:53 EST 2003 Message-ID: <4145cea7eac91be2dcf7351db39af4a0@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] driver for old vga? (trident microsystems tvga8900) From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <200302180359.h1I3xrO09888@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:15:51 -0500 > I could not get the old vgadb from the old disk containing > the 4-floppy install, because, with that disk in the system > I'm trying to get working I get a kernel panic on boot. > > dev A0 port 170 config 0A5A capabilities 0001 mwdma 0000 > FLAGS=10246 TRAP=0 ECODE=0 PC=80022367 > AX fffffffe BX 00000000 CX 00000200 DX ffffffff > SI fffffffe DI 80317874 BP 80317444 > CS 0010 DS 0008 ES 0008 FS 0008 GS 0008 > CR0 80000011 CR2 00000000 CR3 0000c000 > panix: exception/interrupt 0 i was going to comment that this was funny and that no one would want to go near a 2e boot process crash, but then i realized this isn't a 2e boot process crash. that "dev A0 ..." line is from devsd, which appeared in 3e. i don't remember whether the 9load (nee b.com) panics looked the same. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 13:51:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 13:51:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2851 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 13:51:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2847 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 13:51:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 13:51:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D6B7F19999; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:51:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E15019991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:50:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1I4nxGo028017 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 05:49:59 +0100 (MET) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1I4nvub013615 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 05:49:58 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id h1I4nvA10078 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 05:49:57 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200302180449.h1I4nvA10078@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] driver for old vga? (trident microsystems tvga8900) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:15:51 -0500." <4145cea7eac91be2dcf7351db39af4a0@plan9.bell-labs.com> References: <4145cea7eac91be2dcf7351db39af4a0@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 05:49:57 +0100 Sorry for the confusion (or the fun? :-). This panic I got with a 4th edition kernel. (however, I remember that that disk gave me an occasional 'weird interrupt ignored' (or similar wording)) Axel. > > I could not get the old vgadb from the old disk containing > > the 4-floppy install, because, with that disk in the system > > I'm trying to get working I get a kernel panic on boot. > > > > dev A0 port 170 config 0A5A capabilities 0001 mwdma 0000 > > FLAGS=10246 TRAP=0 ECODE=0 PC=80022367 > > AX fffffffe BX 00000000 CX 00000200 DX ffffffff > > SI fffffffe DI 80317874 BP 80317444 > > CS 0010 DS 0008 ES 0008 FS 0008 GS 0008 > > CR0 80000011 CR2 00000000 CR3 0000c000 > > panix: exception/interrupt 0 > > i was going to comment that this was funny and that > no one would want to go near a 2e boot process crash, > but then i realized this isn't a 2e boot process crash. > that "dev A0 ..." line is from devsd, which appeared in 3e. > i don't remember whether the 9load (nee b.com) panics > looked the same. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 14:03:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 14:03:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3274 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 14:03:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3270 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 14:03:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 14:03:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4FF4219995; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 00:03:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A407719995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 00:02:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1I52dGo028325 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 06:02:39 +0100 (MET) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1I52bub014943 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 06:02:37 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id h1I52bK10214 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 06:02:37 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200302180502.h1I52bK10214@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] driver for old vga? (trident microsystems tvga8900) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:09:54 -0500." References: From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 06:02:37 +0100 That must be it :-( (oh well, it was for a server anyway) Thanks, Axel. > The card probably only worked in 640x480x1 > (one of the only standardized graphical VGA modes) > which is no longer an option. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 14:14:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 14:14:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3644 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 14:14:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3640 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 14:14:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 14:14:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 25E67199B7; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 00:14:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1839819992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 00:13:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06092 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 00:13:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1I5DaM24342 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 00:13:36 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302180513.h1I5DaM24342@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] New change to /sys/src/mkfile.proto breaks tex build. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:49:58 +1000." <20030218124958.12ee2fca.ggm@apnic.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 00:13:36 -0500 > > If it's not Scottish, it's crap! > > 'If its not Scotch', I could understand. No one gets SNL references these days? I guess that has something to do with SNL not being funny anymore.... - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 16:32:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 16:32:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9314 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 16:32:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9310 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 16:32:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 16:32:38 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BDCD8199B3; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 02:32:21 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from 9fs.org (cotswold.demon.co.uk [194.222.75.186]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ADC8819992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 02:31:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from 9fs.org ([192.168.100.103]) by 9fs.org; Tue Feb 18 07:34:14 GMT 2003 Received: from 192.168.100.111 ([192.168.100.111]) by 9fs.org; Tue Feb 18 07:34:14 GMT 2003 From: "Nigel Roles" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: RE: [9fans] New change to /sys/src/mkfile.proto breaks tex build. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <200302180513.h1I5DaM24342@augusta.math.psu.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 07:32:10 -0000 What is SNL? Scottish Nationalists Live? -----Original Message----- From: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu [mailto:9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu]On Behalf Of Dan Cross Sent: 18 February 2003 05:14 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] New change to /sys/src/mkfile.proto breaks tex build. > > If it's not Scottish, it's crap! > > 'If its not Scotch', I could understand. No one gets SNL references these days? I guess that has something to do with SNL not being funny anymore.... - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 17:06:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 17:06:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10534 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 17:06:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10530 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 17:06:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 17:06:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C087A199BB; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 03:06:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from XMAIL.asuch.cas.cz (clusterb.asuch.cas.cz [147.231.136.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 73C9319995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 03:05:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from picture ([147.231.139.42]) by XMAIL.asuch.cas.cz over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:05:28 +0100 Message-ID: <000801c2d724$7ff19b10$2a8be793@gli.cas.cz> From: "peter a. cejchan" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Organization: paleobiology & paleoecology lab MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2D72C.E1838160" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Feb 2003 08:05:28.0504 (UTC) FILETIME=[7FF03B80:01C2D724] Subject: [9fans] Acme 3-1 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:05:28 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2D72C.E1838160 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > 3-1 and 2-1 are already defined: they cancel button 3 and button 2 = actions. > I would object to giving them another meaning. > -robI was always perceiving this like a bit wasting... wouldn't e.g., = do? Just my opinion...++pac. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2D72C.E1838160 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 
>  3-1 and 2-1 are already =
defined: they cancel button 3 and button 2 actions.
>  I would object to giving them another meaning.

>  -rob
I was always perceiving this like a bit wasting... =
wouldn't e.g., <esc> do? Just my =
opinion...
++pac.
 
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2D72C.E1838160-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 18:11:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 18:11:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12374 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 18:11:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12370 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 18:11:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 18:11:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 795ED1998C; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 04:11:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 656441998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 04:10:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from kike ([80.4.204.18]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20030218091051.LVGK4529.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@kike> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:10:51 +0000 Message-ID: <003601c2d72d$a71d4a50$6501a8c0@kike> From: "M Heath" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <506b74fe73f255fd923ee3f5e5d6e688@mightycheese.com> <20030218092315.46aa00cc.ggm@apnic.net> <3E51B2DD.6070105@nas.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:10:59 -0000 > But on yet another light note, is there anything decent from the > freenices that Plan 9 could benefit from, other than Mozilla's renderer? > ReiserFS4? users oh and Tux Racer From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 18:35:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 18:35:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12982 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 18:35:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12978 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 18:35:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 18:35:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 51771199E3; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 04:35:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BC58D19991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 04:34:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18l48X-0003pl-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:34:01 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3E5195A8.3040408@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20030218092315.46aa00cc.ggm@apnic.net>, <00f70240ed9f40be7e31a08ae604b047@centurytel.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:33:13 GMT Skip Tavakkolian wrote: > Blit had been around since '82, and it was a better solution. Well, not quite; to really displace X-Windows it would have needed (in addition to *much* better marketing): - more channels (7 not enough) - some way to support multiple display platforms (not just 5620/630/730, and even for those one needed duplicate device-dependent downloadable images). - color From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 18:35:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 18:35:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12988 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 18:35:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12984 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 18:35:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 18:35:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 28D2F199ED; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 04:35:26 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B024C19991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 04:34:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18l48Y-0003ps-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:34:02 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: maynard Message-ID: <39272337.0302172225.62075b8a@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <39272337.0302141925.73d86994@posting.google.com>, <3e404a93849c1c073f4ece3dc442ec5b@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Question About 9p headers... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:33:23 GMT rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com (Russ Cox) wrote in message news:<3e404a93849c1c073f4ece3dc442ec5b@plan9.bell-labs.com>... > If you are doing something embedded, you may not be > able to fit all the extra checks that lib9p does. > Have a look at /sys/src/cmd/ramfs.c, which is a good > small standalone functioning 9P server. Thanks much guys been spending all weekend unwinding u9fs and ramfs :)now as I head to bed I read your replies...haha..well at least i was on the money. It's getting kinda dicey tyring to unwind them however since their (both) written with an underlying OS, but still working on it. I guess the part I'm brain farting over is the mechanism to statically build a namespace without. It's not obvious, but you know what they say..'can't see the tree'. Thanks again for the direction, chugging away Maynard From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 18:50:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 18:50:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13197 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 18:50:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13193 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 18:50:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 18:50:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B95DA19995; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 04:50:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from netscape.com (c3po.aoltw.net [64.236.137.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7A0B219995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 04:49:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from yoda.mcom.com ([10.128.72.204]) by netscape.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id h1I9nol05309 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 01:49:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from will551 ([10.128.73.153]) by yoda.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id HAI0MZ00.TE9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:49:47 +0000 Message-ID: <0a1801c2d733$142fb510$9949800a@will551> From: "Conor Williams" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030218092315.46aa00cc.ggm@apnic.net>, <00f70240ed9f40be7e31a08ae604b047@centurytel.net> <3E5195A8.3040408@null.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Subject: [9fans] Re: acd compile problem Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:49:49 -0000 hi tried compiling acd again last night - o what do I change doprint to? o strconv isnt in any library - is there a new one? o fmtinstall was being used already but the function being passed was msfconv(char *vaargs, Fconv *fp) { processing of vaags... strconv(buf, fp); return 0; } (or similar) fmtinstall needs a function of the form msfconv(Fmt *fp)... but how do I get the vaargs into the function? do I fill Fmt before I send the fp? or is that already rewritten If someone could send me the function msfconv or a url to the new version of acd that would be great tx will551 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 19:00:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 19:00:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13377 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 19:00:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13373 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 19:00:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 19:00:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 05722199EC; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 05:00:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nigel.9fs.org (cotswold.demon.co.uk [194.222.75.186]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F3583199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 04:59:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0e1841010a8d9b226f848812edda0d4a@9fs.org> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: acd compile problem From: nigel@9fs.org In-Reply-To: <0a1801c2d733$142fb510$9949800a@will551> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-tqulhgneeydgmexwljjobsvlsl" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:01:47 0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-tqulhgneeydgmexwljjobsvlsl Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As Russ said, the version on /n/sources is a 4th edition version. You must have the 3rd edition version off his website. The real source is in /acme/bin/source/acd. If it isn't there, then run replica to update your source. If you can't do that, then read the manual page for fmtinstall(1) which gives a very good example of how this stuff works. If you can't do that then int msfconv(Fmt *fp) { Msf m; m = va_arg(fp->args, Msf); fmtprint(fp, "%d.%d.%d", m.m, m.s, m.f); return 0; } is what you need. --upas-tqulhgneeydgmexwljjobsvlsl Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from 9fs.org ([192.168.100.103]) by 9fs.org; Tue Feb 18 09:52:36 GMT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by 9fs.org; Tue Feb 18 09:52:35 GMT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C0ECA199B9; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 04:50:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from netscape.com (c3po.aoltw.net [64.236.137.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7A0B219995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 04:49:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from yoda.mcom.com ([10.128.72.204]) by netscape.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id h1I9nol05309 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 01:49:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from will551 ([10.128.73.153]) by yoda.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id HAI0MZ00.TE9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:49:47 +0000 Message-ID: <0a1801c2d733$142fb510$9949800a@will551> From: "Conor Williams" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030218092315.46aa00cc.ggm@apnic.net>, <00f70240ed9f40be7e31a08ae604b047@centurytel.net> <3E5195A8.3040408@null.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Subject: [9fans] Re: acd compile problem Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:49:49 -0000 hi tried compiling acd again last night - o what do I change doprint to? o strconv isnt in any library - is there a new one? o fmtinstall was being used already but the function being passed was msfconv(char *vaargs, Fconv *fp) { processing of vaags... strconv(buf, fp); return 0; } (or similar) fmtinstall needs a function of the form msfconv(Fmt *fp)... but how do I get the vaargs into the function? do I fill Fmt before I send the fp? or is that already rewritten If someone could send me the function msfconv or a url to the new version of acd that would be great tx will551 --upas-tqulhgneeydgmexwljjobsvlsl-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 19:06:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 19:06:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13495 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 19:06:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13491 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 19:06:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 19:06:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E1B6E199BF; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 05:06:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.prosyst.com (ns.prosyst.com [195.14.248.50]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id EC3351998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 05:05:29 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 2777 invoked by uid 1079); 18 Feb 2003 10:04:45 -0000 Message-ID: <20030218100445.2776.qmail@mail.prosyst.com> From: Nikolay@mail.prosyst.com, Paskov@mail.prosyst.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_0_2775_1045562685"; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [9fans] kbd_de.c - kbmap for qwertz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:04:45 GMT This is a MIME-formatted message. If you see this text it means that your mail software cannot handle MIME-formatted messages. --=_0_2775_1045562685 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As attachment. --=_0_2775_1045562685 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="kbd_de.c.gz" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="kbd_de.c.gz" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 H4sICB4EUj4AA2tiZF9kZS5jAN2US1fTQBiG18mvGEEdxQBJL7SIN66CVKzcvEDFpBna2japaQqt gCt/gyvPceM5bj16jitWuvc3Oe9M2gZIac/RBbrI08nX7zaZ7x11uOTkKw2bKUONseKQ2n2tlKw8 t5CQqWzZ8FHHR1QyQtaLjORdm9WJ6RO9mZokpmPzRdogpsdIzXPtBrOJ1SI+98wubJBFs1ZrcebL JadAyqxluaZnjyHZNKF1n8fzd9r5h9guqzvUl7nyjBdo+UXEmpa7x3itZBrR4ypRVxsOI2XLN60d m23lyG2iHqhbelPXc8qKqyl607A0hRqUIwbEgQSQBCaoJtzTOYWmYEgDk4DOkaE/P2K9TQUtQV/G GLwEfQ3LPsAAD/CBN0ADKAXuKOHCUJOJj7G+ITI6nLO+V+FrE4a6DImhgg3DLlAAisAroAxUZK7v QQCvwd8+CeMLzrViadfnbsPwbQFNIA/syZg4ioiNoQtaBTRgDBgNJRkJAniRWbdac+tMI5SgdbNW 15TlhUNDMCYYF0wIJkVgglfiLxPClBJMC07KYF1TVhpVXi/vuRV8i5QsmMCX657L6JkTDD6jId2T 2FD3rPX2XjAOeOgtKusZ0j0tujJiXY+IB54TwUz1c0sP5JYaLFsqyLZZYvvyj43aWcejKTUkhToO LNBDpBwu4ZsMiSn58Rnry8AV4GpIEOMwXAOuA7eBu8DLHmp4DMsTYB5YBdaB58AGsBRSwyMYsnKC P1A5YSfVMA3DWkgNczAsAPeBReABsAxkZK73J9TwTu7zS3eSM4GenwFPgVlgMySIGRhWgIfAFHAT 2PkPBXHnXxREWwa95BDSA6vnjUg59CmlD9a4MVg2IyJbeNhDrrHBMsZCGYOZ7OEZ75FQSByLrFdy /M40T1f8gte3fOKcLmc8ZpY1ZdGtss7I4qSyhUZwXhnW7ne1VCgGy3nH7ozsnLvvIMAWv0sOV9Qc q0R2khzsoC7EvEa5nby+zUr05d1++GX2Vd5p3+iZcuLiPoDEt4AccCSu1e2zzuLSvkf77uHU6BKF vqV/c3jPcQtPbob+Oo5u9tQ1TLQ/GN2w22A9Js/JRg9pzzGNltkFn9TfwjgZjTsMAAA= --=_0_2775_1045562685-- --=_0_2775_1045562685;charset=iso-8859-1-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 21:11:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 21:11:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15603 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 21:11:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15599 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 21:11:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 21:11:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9682619999; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 07:11:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 6268019991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 07:10:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Acme 3-1 From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:12:42 0000 > 3-1 and 2-1 are already defined: they cancel button 3 and button 2 actions. > I would object to giving them another meaning. i thought 2-1 appended the most recently selected text as an argument to the executed command (and 2-3 cancels the b2 action). i use this for Edit commands (and was confused a moment ago because it doesn't work in Mail windows). as far as i can see 3-1 is the only button chord that's currently redundant (has the same meaning as 3-2): 1 select 2 execute 3 look 1-2 cut 1-3 paste 2-1 execute with args 2-3 cancel execute 3-1 cancel look 3-2 cancel look that's not an argument for giving it a new meaning! i do sometimes wish for a way to express plumbing preferences dynamically (e.g. when starting a new copy of acme and wishing that a) text files would open in the new copy and b) that other plumbing would still work). i wondered if perhaps it might make sense for an application to be able to write a "priority" message to the plumbing "send" file - plumbing messages would be then routed to that app in preference to others (a plumbing message would be sent to only one app, rather than fanning out as currently). an application could send the "priority" message when its window was raised. this might provide behaviour that seemed reasonably natural. what currently depends on the fan-out behaviour of plumbing? (mail/fs, i guess, when messages are deleted, but that's very slow, and works without plumbing anyway). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 21:20:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 21:20:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15708 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 21:20:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15704 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 21:20:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 21:20:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0B268199B9; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 07:20:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nanionic (unknown [212.128.4.208]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C06B719999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 07:19:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Acme 3-1 From: paurea@plan9.escet.urjc.es In-Reply-To: <4fcfb3bbe774ec1b2999da1a01690afe@mightycheese.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:19:10 +0100 > 3-1 and 2-1 are already defined: they cancel button 3 and button 2 actions. > I would object to giving them another meaning. > I agree. But anyway it would be good to have a smooth way to browse directories. Maybe ctrl-3 or a property of the window like Noscroll/Scroll, maybe Browse/Nobrowse... When I browse a directory with acme I keep Deleting windows... Gorka From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 21:20:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 21:20:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15716 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 21:20:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15712 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 21:20:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 21:20:39 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 38E61199BF; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 07:20:24 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4917619995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 07:19:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Feb 18 07:19:52 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Tue Feb 18 07:19:49 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Acme 3-1 From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 07:19:47 -0500 > what currently depends on the fan-out behaviour of plumbing? > (mail/fs, i guess, when messages are deleted, but that's very slow, > and works without plumbing anyway). faces and Mail depend on both getting announcements about new messages from upas/fs via the plumber to work correctly. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 21:25:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 21:25:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15772 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 21:25:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15768 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 21:25:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 21:25:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 28907199EC; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 07:25:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.119.131.80]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ABF9019992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 07:24:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (boyd@zode.strakt.com [62.119.131.76]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h1ICOZxw001413 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:24:35 +0100 Message-ID: <3E522602.3080605@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020623 Debian/1.0.0-0.woody.1 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] New change to /sys/src/mkfile.proto breaks tex build. References: <200302180513.h1I5DaM24342@augusta.math.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:24:34 +0100 Dan Cross wrote: > No one gets SNL references these days? I'm not sure SNL was ever shown much outside of the US, which would explain part of the problem. Ancient episodes seemed to turn up in the 90s on cable in various place, though. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 22:20:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 22:20:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16386 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 22:20:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16382 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 22:20:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 22:20:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E2B09199B3; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:20:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1312D19999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:19:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1aab927871041392cfbca0aa90236548@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Acme 3-1 From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:21:38 0000 > faces and Mail depend on both getting announcements > about new messages from upas/fs via the plumber to > work correctly. oh yes, i'd forgotten about that. however, mail could serve a file that informed readers of updates to the mailbox; or the plumber could recognise a "broadcast" attribute, so plumb clients could cause a message to be sent to all listeners. i don't think the broadcast nature of plumbing is what's wanted in most cases, but perhaps others disagree? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 22:39:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 22:39:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16892 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 22:39:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16888 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 22:39:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 22:39:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 26D55199EC; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:39:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D1531199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:38:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Acme 3-1 In-Reply-To: <1aab927871041392cfbca0aa90236548@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:38:55 -0500 > i don't think the broadcast nature of plumbing is what's wanted in > most cases, but perhaps others disagree? when it happened, the consensus seemed to be (i was watching from afar) that neither broadcast nor unicast was really a perfect answer, but broadcast was easier all around. the plumber doesn't really know where messages are coming from, so you'd have to add something for that, and you'd have to add some way to change where the unicasts were going. some way to associate incoming messages with outgoing fids. it gets ugly quickly. another possibility is to round-robin unicast readers when you get the same message over and over again, you would 3-click the same thing multiple times to get it to appear in the right window. this combined with a broadcast attribute would probably work reasonably. i'm still not sure -- there are rarely times when i would actually use such functionality. i just added fn sam { if(~ $1 -*) exec /bin/sam $* @{ rfork n plumber exec /bin/sam $* } } to my profile, which nicely fixes the one time when i wish plumbing weren't there. (i use sam instances when i'm using a lot of the command language on a fixed set of files, and literally never want to plumb new files into the sams.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 22:42:00 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 22:42:00 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16926 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 22:41:59 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16922 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 22:41:59 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 22:41:59 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AC897199ED; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:41:53 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1080A19992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:40:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13571 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:40:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1IDejM26453 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:40:45 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302181340.h1IDejM26453@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] New change to /sys/src/mkfile.proto breaks tex build. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 18 Feb 2003 07:32:10 GMT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:40:45 -0500 > What is SNL? Scottish Nationalists Live? Nope; ``Saturday Night Live.'' American TV comedy show. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 22:44:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 22:44:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16940 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 22:44:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16936 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 22:44:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 22:44:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BD7161998C; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:44:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from minster.cs.york.ac.uk (minster.cs.york.ac.uk [144.32.40.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8A46B1998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:43:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from pc095 ([144.32.41.96] ident=ianb) by minster.cs.york.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18l7zZ-0001FO-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:41:01 +0000 From: Ian Broster To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Acme 3-1 chord Message-Id: <20030218134101.671ae414.spam@broster.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.5claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanner: exiscan *18l7zZ-0001FO-00*n0Zr/JE6km6* Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:41:01 +0000 In my version of wily (unix port of Acme) I've made B2 on a directory open the directory in the current window if the current window is a directory. This works very well I find. It also feels right: you "execute" a directory to "change into it". Also, .. in the title bar works better (on unix). I've never had a problem with conflicts between wanting to "execute" a directory and execute a program with the same name. ian On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 00:46:34 GMT Sam wrote: > Does anyone find merit in letting the 3-1 chord in > Acme have the effect of opening (if possible) the > selected text in the current window instead of a > new one, as in mouse-3? > > Cheers, > > Sam > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 23:00:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 23:00:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17112 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 23:00:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17108 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 23:00:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 23:00:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1B94B199ED; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:00:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from minster.cs.york.ac.uk (minster.cs.york.ac.uk [144.32.40.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 08E0B199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:59:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from pc095 ([144.32.41.96] ident=ianb) by minster.cs.york.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18l87s-0001eI-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:49:36 +0000 From: Ian Broster <9list@broster.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Fw: Re: [9fans] Acme 3-1 chord Message-Id: <20030218134936.1047c327.9list@broster.co.uk> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.5claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanner: exiscan *18l87s-0001eI-00*YkX6oc1fUqc* Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:49:36 +0000 In my version of wily (unix port of Acme) I've made B2 on a directory open the directory in the current window if the current window is a directory. This works very well I find. It also feels right: you "execute" a directory to "change into it". Also, .. in the title bar works better (on unix). I've never had a problem with conflicts between wanting to "execute" a directory and execute a program with the same name. ian On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 00:46:34 GMT Sam wrote: > Does anyone find merit in letting the 3-1 chord in > Acme have the effect of opening (if possible) the > selected text in the current window instead of a > new one, as in mouse-3? > > Cheers, > > Sam > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 18 23:11:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 18 23:11:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17262 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Feb 2003 23:11:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17258 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 23:11:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 23:11:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 46E8719A02; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:11:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6ACC919999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:10:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h1IEA4t25731 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:10:04 -0500 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Acme 3-1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:10:04 -0500 (EST) In an effort to toss out other suggestions, how about keeping with 3-1, but if you want to stay in the current window, you should have previously highlighted `.'. This both keeps with the notion of button one being used to dictate arguments for an action and would permit keeping 3-1 sans input as a cancel shortcut. Moreover, it seems that on 2-1 if there's nothing highlighted for use as argument, the exec ought not occur. We have a button for exec w/o arguments and chords are precious (even if they're reclaimed to do nothing). Cheers, Sam On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 paurea@plan9.escet.urjc.es wrote: > > 3-1 and 2-1 are already defined: they cancel button 3 and button 2 actions. > > I would object to giving them another meaning. > > > > > I agree. But anyway it would be good to have a smooth way to browse directories. > Maybe ctrl-3 or a property of the window like Noscroll/Scroll, maybe Browse/Nobrowse... > When I browse a directory with acme I keep Deleting windows... > > > Gorka > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 00:26:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 00:26:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18373 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 00:26:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18369 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 00:26:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 00:26:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A5941199B3; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:26:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D679D1998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:25:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h1IFPTRV024537 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:25:30 -0700 Received: (qmail 9929 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 08:25:29 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 08:25:29 -0700 Received: (qmail 15357 invoked by uid 3499); 18 Feb 2003 08:25:29 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 08:25:29 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: RE: [9fans] New change to /sys/src/mkfile.proto breaks tex build. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:25:29 -0700 (MST) On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Nigel Roles wrote: > What is SNL? Scottish Nationalists Live? Sandia National Lab, obviously. It is hard for me to read papers from SNL sometimes, I keep trying to figure out what the CS guys are doing working on a late-night show, and why do they need so many supercomputers? ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 00:35:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 00:35:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18445 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 00:35:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18441 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 00:35:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 00:35:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8FAC4199B3; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:35:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utstat.toronto.edu (utstat.toronto.edu [128.100.73.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B0E3619992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:34:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Tom Glinos" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20030218153432.B0E3619992@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:34:31 -0500 (EST) The problem with Miguel de Icaza specifically and "Computer Science" (and I use the term loosely) in general is that there is damn little that has been objectively studied measured and quantified, and the lessons generalized and reduced. The real question is; is Bonobo or Plan 9, or whatever several orders of magnitude measureably "better" and cheaper than it's competitor. If so, then it has merit. If not, well you screwed up somewhere along the line. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 00:40:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 00:40:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18539 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 00:40:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18535 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 00:40:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 00:40:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D2C8B199B9; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:40:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C486519991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:39:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h1IFdFBU024875 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:39:15 -0700 Received: (qmail 10058 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 08:39:14 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 08:39:14 -0700 Received: (qmail 15385 invoked by uid 3499); 18 Feb 2003 08:39:14 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 08:39:14 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... In-Reply-To: <20030218153432.B0E3619992@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:39:14 -0700 (MST) On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Tom Glinos wrote: > The real question is; is Bonobo or Plan 9, or whatever several > orders of magnitude measureably "better" and cheaper than it's competitor. what's better mean? There's the rub. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 01:39:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 01:39:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19285 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 01:39:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19281 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 01:39:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 01:39:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8B7A7199BC; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:39:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DB23819991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:38:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h1IGcJBU024958 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:38:19 -0700 Received: (qmail 10950 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 09:38:19 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 09:38:19 -0700 Received: (qmail 15903 invoked by uid 3499); 18 Feb 2003 09:38:19 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 09:38:19 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] u9fs Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:38:19 -0700 (MST) has anyone used u9fs to attach to anything but root (i.e. /). Reason I am asking: from my 9p2000 client I attach to local name /mnt, remote name /tmp. However, when I do walks or other ops, u9fs is always starting the walks etc. at /, not /tmp. This is a stock u9fs, so I am wondering if I am doing something nobody has tried. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 01:43:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 01:43:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19382 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 01:43:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19378 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 01:43:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 01:43:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 241CD199EE; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:43:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9BD47199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:42:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Feb 18 11:42:07 EST 2003 Received: from 18.24.6.245 ([18.24.6.245]) by plan9; Tue Feb 18 11:42:05 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] u9fs From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:42:06 -0500 That's not how attaches typically work in Plan 9. The only use of the attach spec in u9fs is that if you attach to the name "device" then you can access devices on the system. Otherwise you're not allowed, so as to avoid blocking the (single-threaded) server. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 01:48:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 01:48:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19543 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 01:48:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19539 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 01:48:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 01:48:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 66134199F2; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:48:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nigel.9fs.org (cotswold.demon.co.uk [194.222.75.186]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A74B3199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:47:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <953c00f3c9d5fcf9b39d2d4cdc94c56e@9fs.org> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] u9fs From: nigel@9fs.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-yhvfcujbywxiawcbmvzvryekgn" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:49:33 0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-yhvfcujbywxiawcbmvzvryekgn Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The attach name specifies the filesystem to attach to, not a remote path. E.g. Plan 9 fileservers typically have "main" and "dump". --upas-yhvfcujbywxiawcbmvzvryekgn Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from 9fs.org ([192.168.100.103]) by 9fs.org; Tue Feb 18 16:41:36 GMT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by 9fs.org; Tue Feb 18 16:41:35 GMT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8B7E819991; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:39:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DB23819991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:38:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h1IGcJBU024958 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:38:19 -0700 Received: (qmail 10950 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 09:38:19 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 09:38:19 -0700 Received: (qmail 15903 invoked by uid 3499); 18 Feb 2003 09:38:19 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 09:38:19 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] u9fs Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:38:19 -0700 (MST) has anyone used u9fs to attach to anything but root (i.e. /). Reason I am asking: from my 9p2000 client I attach to local name /mnt, remote name /tmp. However, when I do walks or other ops, u9fs is always starting the walks etc. at /, not /tmp. This is a stock u9fs, so I am wondering if I am doing something nobody has tried. ron --upas-yhvfcujbywxiawcbmvzvryekgn-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 02:05:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 02:05:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19767 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 02:05:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19763 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 02:05:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 02:05:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C0D9819991; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:05:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E762C1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:04:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.7) with ESMTP id 470947 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:04:49 -0600 Message-ID: <8f6147a9a3134685d4ea7381155e7b62@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Acme 3-1 From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <1aab927871041392cfbca0aa90236548@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:04:20 -0800 Russ summarized pretty well how we came to have fan-out. The main issue was unicast was: who gets it? Or, to put it another way, Damn, it went to the wrong program. I was surprised to discover I liked fan-out, especially when debugging new rules. Of course, you could take a tip from plumbing's relatives in other systems and provide a UI for selecting where it goes, but 99% of plumbing's value is its automation. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 02:13:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 02:13:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19824 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 02:13:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19820 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 02:13:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 02:13:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8C49219A04; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:13:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A851B19999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:12:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h1IHC4RV016558 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:12:04 -0700 Received: (qmail 11949 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 10:12:04 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 10:12:04 -0700 Received: (qmail 16265 invoked by uid 3499); 18 Feb 2003 10:12:04 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 10:12:04 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] u9fs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:12:04 -0700 (MST) On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > The only use of the attach spec in u9fs is that if you attach > to the name "device" then you can access devices > on the system. Otherwise you're not allowed, so as > to avoid blocking the (single-threaded) server. ah, that is interesting. This is what happens when you re-do an implementation from the man pages. We actually make different use of the attach spec here. It lets you restrict the domain of the server by basically making a fid for the attach lower in the tree than '/'. I guess I'll get the same effect by chroot'ing the server. It's interesting seeing how much I did the same as Plan 9 from the man pages, and how many little differences like this have crept in. I've been using that attach spec for years (and truth to tell, I still like it, but I'm going to stick with stock u9fs). I ran into this just now for this reason: I am running v9fs2k (linux vfs client for 9p2000) on the same laptop as u9fs. I am getting readdir working. The mount point for v9fs2k is /mnt. Things got messy when the server walked over /mnt ... as in deadlock. I never had this type of thing with my old 9p server that I wrote, since the attaches were always below root. Anyway, an easy workaround. thanks ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 02:19:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 02:19:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19862 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 02:19:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19858 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 02:19:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 02:19:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 084C319A00; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:19:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 26DB319992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:18:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Feb 18 12:18:02 EST 2003 Received: from 18.24.6.245 ([18.24.6.245]) by plan9; Tue Feb 18 12:17:59 EST 2003 Message-ID: <4817107fd70b11833010e3e018fab5b3@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] u9fs From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:18:00 -0500 > We actually make different use of the attach spec here. It lets you > restrict the domain of the server by basically making a fid for the attach > lower in the tree than '/'. Right. If you want NFS, ... ;-) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 02:21:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 02:21:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19902 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 02:21:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19898 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 02:21:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 02:21:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB83F19A0C; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:21:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2C0D719A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:20:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h1IHKAjN006719 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:20:12 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <037b2cc975ef2085c42f8537bc736b5b@centurytel.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: <3E5195A8.3040408@null.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:30:29 -0800 > Well, not quite; to really displace X-Windows it would > have needed (in addition to *much* better marketing): I agree on the marketing. > - more channels (7 not enough) > - some way to support multiple display platforms (not > just 5620/630/730, and even for those one needed > duplicate device-dependent downloadable images). I recall one of the universities ported the DMD software to an Atari ST (68000) about the time we were selling an IDRIS+X10R3 on STs in '87. DMD for ST worked well. They couldn't release the sources then, of course. > - color From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 02:23:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 02:23:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19914 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 02:23:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19910 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 02:23:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 02:23:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BC4F219A17; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:23:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nigel.9fs.org (cotswold.demon.co.uk [194.222.75.186]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A2AE419A0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:22:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... From: nigel@9fs.org In-Reply-To: <037b2cc975ef2085c42f8537bc736b5b@centurytel.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 17:25:11 0000 > I recall one of the universities ported the DMD software to an Atari > ST (68000) about the time we were selling an IDRIS+X10R3 on STs > in '87. DMD for ST worked well. They couldn't release the sources > then, of course. > More than one did. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 02:30:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 02:30:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19964 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 02:30:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19960 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 02:30:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 02:30:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A080919A06; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:30:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 17F1F19A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:29:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h1IHTQjN003552 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:29:27 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: RE: [9fans] New change to /sys/src/mkfile.proto breaks tex build. From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:39:45 -0800 > It is hard for me to read papers from SNL sometimes, I keep trying to > figure out what the CS guys are doing working on a late-night show, and > why do they need so many supercomputers? Perhaps the time is right for a new SNL skit, called "The Curmudgeon" (like "The Continental") staring a well respected and famous talent who is a big, dare I say mighty, cheese on this list ☺ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 03:21:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 03:21:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20451 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 03:21:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20447 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 03:21:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 03:21:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B228D199EE; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:21:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 30590199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:20:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18lCFe-00022F-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 18:13:54 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: jj Message-ID: <8ef9380a.0302181010.5b1f969f@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 18:13:28 GMT All, I am planing on getting a new PC and was really interested in intalling plan9 as the OS. I would prefer to avoid building my own PC from compatible parts. So I was wondering if people here had successsfully installed plan 9 on a 'off-the-shelves' PC (brand - model) and if they had any advice. Sorry for the 'not-even-a-newbie-yet' question and thank you for the help. jj From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 03:28:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 03:28:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20483 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 03:28:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20479 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 03:28:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 03:28:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 565BF199ED; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:28:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0570D19999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:27:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1IIR9Lp077669 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:27:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca) Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with ESMTP id h1IIR9LY077666 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:27:09 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop In-Reply-To: <8ef9380a.0302181010.5b1f969f@posting.google.com> Message-ID: <20030218112323.O74014@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> References: <8ef9380a.0302181010.5b1f969f@posting.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:27:09 -0700 (MST) Everything that would run VMWare at a reasonable speed will do. Mind the three-button mouse requirement... Apart from that, I have an IBM NetVista here that runs p9 with less hick-up than, say, FreeBSD :) Make sure you get a geforce[23]/vanta video card -- still good for most games, and it works great under Plan9. You mileage with a geforce4 may vary. andrey ps: the new IBM R30+ laptops all come with Radeon7500 graphics. If mine arrives soon I may report on experiences with that :) On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, jj wrote: > All, > > I am planing on getting a new PC and was really interested in > intalling plan9 as the OS. > > I would prefer to avoid building my own PC from compatible parts. So I > was wondering if people here had successsfully installed plan 9 on a > 'off-the-shelves' PC (brand - model) and if they had any advice. > Sorry for the 'not-even-a-newbie-yet' question and thank you for the > help. > > jj > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 03:29:05 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 03:29:05 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20490 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 03:29:05 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20486 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 03:29:05 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 03:29:05 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7FBA719A0B; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:28:27 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 30FFC199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:27:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Feb 18 13:27:34 EST 2003 Received: from 18.24.6.245 ([18.24.6.245]) by plan9; Tue Feb 18 13:27:32 EST 2003 Message-ID: <9015471ded135864e5711abe3da86b4d@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <8ef9380a.0302181010.5b1f969f@posting.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:27:39 -0500 > I would prefer to avoid building my own PC from compatible parts. So I > was wondering if people here had successsfully installed plan 9 on a > 'off-the-shelves' PC (brand - model) and if they had any advice. > Sorry for the 'not-even-a-newbie-yet' question and thank you for the > help. The hard part is always video, and after that disks. Something with IDE disks and an Nvidia video card is very likely to work. SCSI controllers not so much. Other current video cards, not hardly at all. One rising concern is USB -- we support USB devices but not USB keyboards, and I don't remember the current state of USB mice. Make sure the computer comes with a standard PS/2 keyboard if not mouse. (Nvidia is fairly committed to keeping their current cards backwards compatible with their old cards, and thus with our driver. This makes them my new favorite video card company, despite the fact that the driver is effectively a binary they distribute.) Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 03:30:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 03:30:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20500 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 03:30:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20496 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 03:30:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 03:30:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2DE8119A0C; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:30:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 16219199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:29:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h1IITRRV021095 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:29:27 -0700 Received: (qmail 12991 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2003 11:29:27 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 11:29:27 -0700 Received: (qmail 16806 invoked by uid 3499); 18 Feb 2003 11:29:27 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 18 Feb 2003 11:29:27 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop In-Reply-To: <9015471ded135864e5711abe3da86b4d@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:29:27 -0700 (MST) has anybody tried the $200 Walmart PCs :-) ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 03:53:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 03:53:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20656 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 03:53:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20652 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 03:53:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 03:53:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 96C6E199ED; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:53:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mcp.csh.rit.edu (mcp.csh.rit.edu [129.21.60.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9CD84199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:52:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from fury.csh.rit.edu (fury.csh.rit.edu [129.21.60.5]) by mcp.csh.rit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E835FA116 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:52:32 -0500 (EST) From: George Gensure To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop In-Reply-To: <9015471ded135864e5711abe3da86b4d@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:52:31 -0500 (EST) USB mice have worked fabulously for me. % usb/usbd % usb/usbmouse turned my little intellimouse on and i dropped my ps/2 like a bad habit (just my little compliment) > > One rising concern is USB -- we support USB devices > but not USB keyboards, and I don't remember the > current state of USB mice. Make sure the computer > comes with a standard PS/2 keyboard if not mouse. > -George From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 04:39:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 04:39:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21125 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 04:39:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21121 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 04:39:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 04:39:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1988C199DD; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 14:39:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 81254199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 14:38:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Acme 3-1 From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 19:41:14 0000 > Of course, you could take a tip from plumbing's relatives in > other systems and provide a UI for selecting where it goes, > but 99% of plumbing's value is its automation. that's why i thought it might be nice to have it go automatically to the window you've most recently interacted with (or some approximation thereof). the rule could also specify fan-out or not (e.g. "plumb toall edit") then you'd have your UI for selecting whether it fans out (plumb /mnt/plumb/rules). it doesn't look hard to do in the code. i'll experiment with it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 10:02:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 10:02:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25904 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 10:02:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25900 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 10:02:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 10:02:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4197B199DD; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:02:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 78C911998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:01:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:03:16 +0900 > ps: the new IBM R30+ laptops all come with Radeon7500 graphics. If mine > arrives soon I may report on experiences with that :) Oh!, Please let us know the results. I may have to get one for presentation... My Toshiba is too old now (48MB memory ;_;). Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 10:09:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 10:09:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26112 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 10:09:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26108 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 10:09:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 10:09:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 896101998A; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:09:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A4D0C199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:08:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Feb 18 20:08:05 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Tue Feb 18 20:08:03 EST 2003 Message-ID: <517f0b3cb85a58bb1e0da61d3ed6c07d@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:08:04 -0500 >> ps: the new IBM R30+ laptops all come with Radeon7500 graphics. If mine >> arrives soon I may report on experiences with that :) > > Oh!, Please let us know the results. don't get your hopes up. a bunch of people have talked about writing a radeon7500 driver but i don't know anyone who has actually started. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 10:11:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 10:11:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26186 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 10:11:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26181 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 10:11:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 10:11:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C60AE199EE; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:11:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 63D6E199ED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:10:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <58e2319ba13efc0d506b83d40bac5b9a@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Acme 3-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:12:02 +0900 > that's why i thought it might be nice to have it go automatically to > the window you've most recently interacted with ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I prefer this interface. > it doesn't look hard to do in the code. i'll experiment with it. Wow! I hope you'll get success! Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 11:00:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 11:00:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27834 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 11:00:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27830 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 11:00:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 11:00:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A337F199F2; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 21:00:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D20F81998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:59:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <881347585657ae0675de9d2501edbfd0@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-juuuxayoowxejtvpberepvqvbc" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 11:00:35 +0900 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-juuuxayoowxejtvpberepvqvbc Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hmmm. Besides, I assume that IBM is the only company who has 'three buttons' mouse pad in their notebook products. Am I wrong? Kenji --upas-juuuxayoowxejtvpberepvqvbc Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp ([192.168.1.3]) by diabase; Wed Feb 19 10:17:27 JST 2003 Received: from elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.103.2]) by granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16190 for ; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:08:21 +0900 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (8.9.3/3.7W-02121711) with ESMTP id KAA09307 for ; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:09:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 896101998A; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:09:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A4D0C199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:08:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Feb 18 20:08:05 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Tue Feb 18 20:08:03 EST 2003 Message-ID: <517f0b3cb85a58bb1e0da61d3ed6c07d@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:08:04 -0500 >> ps: the new IBM R30+ laptops all come with Radeon7500 graphics. If mine >> arrives soon I may report on experiences with that :) > > Oh!, Please let us know the results. don't get your hopes up. a bunch of people have talked about writing a radeon7500 driver but i don't know anyone who has actually started. --upas-juuuxayoowxejtvpberepvqvbc-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 11:13:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 11:13:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28365 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 11:13:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28361 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 11:13:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 11:13:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E2834199EC; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 21:13:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.2.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F05C7199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 21:12:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from imgw1.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (ons-imgw1 [192.168.1.66]) by fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h1J2Cccl013773 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 19:12:38 -0700 Received: from csb (csb [136.159.5.15]) by imgw1.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1J2CbMQ019805 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 19:12:37 -0700 From: andrey mirtchovski X-X-Sender: mirtchov@csb To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop In-Reply-To: <881347585657ae0675de9d2501edbfd0@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: References: <881347585657ae0675de9d2501edbfd0@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavis-milter (http://amavis.org/) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 19:12:37 -0700 (MST) You are pretty much right. And as much as my ability to complete a vga driver may be questionable, I would try to do my best to provide enough information so that 9fans will not be devoid of using IBM thinkpads in the future :) The current one I'm having has had its fair amount of falling off the table, cat chewing on the cable and munching chips while checking email, and the fact that its still surviving is speaking for itself. Too bad nothing else from IBM I've touched was that good... andrey On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote: > Hmmm. > > Besides, I assume that IBM is the only company who has 'three > buttons' mouse pad in their notebook products. Am I wrong? > > Kenji > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 11:54:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 11:54:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29950 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 11:54:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29946 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 11:54:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 11:54:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9FF93199E4; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 21:54:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D3C3199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 21:53:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 11:54:42 +0900 > The current one I'm having has had its fair amount of falling off the table, > cat chewing on the cable and munching chips while checking email, and the fact > that its still surviving is speaking for itself. I've never had such experience. ? However, my Toshiba Tecra's cooling fan was dead... I need more memory, such as 128 or 256MB for graphics. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 12:54:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 12:54:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31782 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 12:54:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31778 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 12:54:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 12:54:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B314F1998A; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 22:54:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from coolre41858.com (63-109-248-5.reverse.newskies.net [63.109.248.5]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 10EC61998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 22:53:12 -0500 (EST) From: "Dr PascalUgoti" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6900 DM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <20030219035312.10EC61998C@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] GOODWILL Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: simbi_962@myself.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 19:53:40 -0800 My dear friend=2C I must first of all confirm to you that my contact with you and my proposal is for real=2C although we have not met before=2C I have planned my trip to meet with you for the third weekend of next month=2E This business will be of interest to you and your business and involves $30=2C000=2C000=2E00=2C which emanated from over invoiced contracts executed on behalf of my ministry of minerals and Energy=2C by foreign contractor=2E Though the actual contract value has been paid to the original contractor=2C GUILDER MINING =28PTY=29 SA=2C now in-liquidation=2E We have however included our billforthe over invoiced amount of US$30m amongst the present bills that are scheduled for payment in the name of the company in-liquidation=2E We have also planned the execution of this deal perfectly both in the area of documentation and the changing of beneficiary from the company in liquidation that we had used to apply for payment=2C to the name=2C which you will forward to us=2E I shall supply you with all the relevant documents relating to this transaction as soon as we establish a working relationship=2E For purpose of clarity=2C we are four in number here who are strategically placed in the Department of Minerals and Energy for the smooth and swift transfer of these funds to your nominated account=2E This transaction is itself risk free and should be concluded within the next ten to fourteen working days if you follow my instructions carefully and we work closely as a team=2E =2E Where you are going to come in is this=2E We are going to effect a change of company name from GUILDER MINING =28PTY=29 SA to your company so as to legalize your company as the bona fide beneficiary of the contract sum=2E In this regard we will do the incorporation of your company here and reflect your company as having taken over the assets of Guilder Mining =28pty=29=2E Once we complete this process=2C your company will now be legally entitled to the US$30=2C which the Department of Minerals and Energy owes GUILDER MINING =28PTY=29 SA=2E We will thereafter use your company's name to apply for the payment of the US$30 into your company's designated account=2E This application we will process here in my Ministry and the approved Payment Recommendation sent to the Ministry of Finance=2C which will authorize the South African Reserve Bank to effect the transfer of the fund to your designated account=2E For assisting us with a receiving account and a company name=2C we propose 20% of the contract amount of US$30m for you and 10% for taxes=2C phone=2C fax and other incidental expenses that we may incur in the course of the eventual realisation of the transaction=2E Meanwhile=2C please send me your confidential telephone=2Ffax numbers=2C to enable us to speak first and know ourselves better=2E You can also contact me on my confidential sat phone-+871763427855 fax-+871763427856=2E I promise that you will not regret helping us=2C you have my personal word of honor=2E My colleagues and I strive for the commitment to operate only on high standards of integrity and honesty=2E We need the same honesty and commitment to this transaction from you=2E Thank you for your anticipated cooperation=2E My Sincere Regards=2E Dr Pascal Ugoti From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 12:54:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 12:54:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31790 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 12:54:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31786 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 12:54:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 12:54:43 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C0875199ED; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 22:54:27 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from helimore1238.com (63-109-248-5.reverse.newskies.net [63.109.248.5]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 642DF199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 22:53:22 -0500 (EST) From: "Dr Pascal Ugoti" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6900 DM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <20030219035322.642DF199BE@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] GOODWILL Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: simbi_962@myself.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 19:53:45 -0800 My dear friend=2C I must first of all confirm to you that my contact with you and my proposal is for real=2C although we have not met before=2C I have planned my trip to meet with you for the third weekend of next month=2E This business will be of interest to you and your business and involves $30=2C000=2C000=2E00=2C which emanated from over invoiced contracts executed on behalf of my ministry of minerals and Energy=2C by foreign contractor=2E Though the actual contract value has been paid to the original contractor=2C GUILDER MINING =28PTY=29 SA=2C now in-liquidation=2E We have however included our billforthe over invoiced amount of US$30m amongst the present bills that are scheduled for payment in the name of the company in-liquidation=2E We have also planned the execution of this deal perfectly both in the area of documentation and the changing of beneficiary from the company in liquidation that we had used to apply for payment=2C to the name=2C which you will forward to us=2E I shall supply you with all the relevant documents relating to this transaction as soon as we establish a working relationship=2E For purpose of clarity=2C we are four in number here who are strategically placed in the Department of Minerals and Energy for the smooth and swift transfer of these funds to your nominated account=2E This transaction is itself risk free and should be concluded within the next ten to fourteen working days if you follow my instructions carefully and we work closely as a team=2E =2E Where you are going to come in is this=2E We are going to effect a change of company name from GUILDER MINING =28PTY=29 SA to your company so as to legalize your company as the bona fide beneficiary of the contract sum=2E In this regard we will do the incorporation of your company here and reflect your company as having taken over the assets of Guilder Mining =28pty=29=2E Once we complete this process=2C your company will now be legally entitled to the US$30=2C which the Department of Minerals and Energy owes GUILDER MINING =28PTY=29 SA=2E We will thereafter use your company's name to apply for the payment of the US$30 into your company's designated account=2E This application we will process here in my Ministry and the approved Payment Recommendation sent to the Ministry of Finance=2C which will authorize the South African Reserve Bank to effect the transfer of the fund to your designated account=2E For assisting us with a receiving account and a company name=2C we propose 20% of the contract amount of US$30m for you and 10% for taxes=2C phone=2C fax and other incidental expenses that we may incur in the course of the eventual realisation of the transaction=2E Meanwhile=2C please send me your confidential telephone=2Ffax numbers=2C to enable us to speak first and know ourselves better=2E You can also contact me on my confidential sat phone-+871763427855 fax-+871763427856=2E I promise that you will not regret helping us=2C you have my personal word of honor=2E My colleagues and I strive for the commitment to operate only on high standards of integrity and honesty=2E We need the same honesty and commitment to this transaction from you=2E Thank you for your anticipated cooperation=2E My Sincere Regards=2E Dr Pascal Ugoti From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 12:57:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 12:57:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31888 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 12:57:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31884 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 12:57:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 12:57:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 22AD4199E4; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 22:57:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 314F5199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 22:56:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GOODWILL In-Reply-To: <20030219035322.642DF199BE@mail.cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-fzvgcoiomhxlceieeihmuidten" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 22:56:02 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-fzvgcoiomhxlceieeihmuidten Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Finally, a way to generate revenue from Plan 9. Thank you Dr. Ugoti. --upas-fzvgcoiomhxlceieeihmuidten Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Feb 18 22:54:34 EST 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Tue Feb 18 22:54:31 EST 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9C05A199EC; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 22:54:26 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from helimore1238.com (63-109-248-5.reverse.newskies.net [63.109.248.5]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 642DF199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 22:53:22 -0500 (EST) From: "Dr Pascal Ugoti" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6900 DM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <20030219035322.642DF199BE@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] GOODWILL Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: simbi_962@myself.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 19:53:45 -0800 My dear friend=2C I must first of all confirm to you that my contact with you and my proposal is for real=2C although we have not met before=2C I have planned my trip to meet with you for the third weekend of next month=2E This business will be of interest to you and your business and involves $30=2C000=2C000=2E00=2C which emanated from over invoiced contracts executed on behalf of my ministry of minerals and Energy=2C by foreign contractor=2E Though the actual contract value has been paid to the original contractor=2C GUILDER MINING =28PTY=29 SA=2C now in-liquidation=2E We have however included our billforthe over invoiced amount of US$30m amongst the present bills that are scheduled for payment in the name of the company in-liquidation=2E We have also planned the execution of this deal perfectly both in the area of documentation and the changing of beneficiary from the company in liquidation that we had used to apply for payment=2C to the name=2C which you will forward to us=2E I shall supply you with all the relevant documents relating to this transaction as soon as we establish a working relationship=2E For purpose of clarity=2C we are four in number here who are strategically placed in the Department of Minerals and Energy for the smooth and swift transfer of these funds to your nominated account=2E This transaction is itself risk free and should be concluded within the next ten to fourteen working days if you follow my instructions carefully and we work closely as a team=2E =2E Where you are going to come in is this=2E We are going to effect a change of company name from GUILDER MINING =28PTY=29 SA to your company so as to legalize your company as the bona fide beneficiary of the contract sum=2E In this regard we will do the incorporation of your company here and reflect your company as having taken over the assets of Guilder Mining =28pty=29=2E Once we complete this process=2C your company will now be legally entitled to the US$30=2C which the Department of Minerals and Energy owes GUILDER MINING =28PTY=29 SA=2E We will thereafter use your company's name to apply for the payment of the US$30 into your company's designated account=2E This application we will process here in my Ministry and the approved Payment Recommendation sent to the Ministry of Finance=2C which will authorize the South African Reserve Bank to effect the transfer of the fund to your designated account=2E For assisting us with a receiving account and a company name=2C we propose 20% of the contract amount of US$30m for you and 10% for taxes=2C phone=2C fax and other incidental expenses that we may incur in the course of the eventual realisation of the transaction=2E Meanwhile=2C please send me your confidential telephone=2Ffax numbers=2C to enable us to speak first and know ourselves better=2E You can also contact me on my confidential sat phone-+871763427855 fax-+871763427856=2E I promise that you will not regret helping us=2C you have my personal word of honor=2E My colleagues and I strive for the commitment to operate only on high standards of integrity and honesty=2E We need the same honesty and commitment to this transaction from you=2E Thank you for your anticipated cooperation=2E My Sincere Regards=2E Dr Pascal Ugoti --upas-fzvgcoiomhxlceieeihmuidten-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 14:05:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 14:05:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1780 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 14:05:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1776 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 14:05:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 14:05:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 95B6E199BE; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 00:05:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail3.panix.com (mail3.panix.com [166.84.1.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6FEFD1998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 00:04:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from panix3.panix.com (panix3.panix.com [166.84.1.3]) by mail3.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D2BD986AD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 00:04:46 -0500 (EST) Received: (from markp@localhost) by panix3.panix.com (8.11.6/8.8.8/PanixN1.0) id h1J54kd24932 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 00:04:46 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Powers To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop Message-ID: <20030219050446.GA10277@panix.com> References: <9015471ded135864e5711abe3da86b4d@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 00:04:46 -0500 On Tue, Feb 18, 2003 at 01:52:31PM -0500, George Gensure wrote: > USB mice have worked fabulously for me. > > % usb/usbd > % usb/usbmouse > > turned my little intellimouse on and i dropped my ps/2 like a bad habit > (just my little compliment) hm, I have a wireless intellimouse -- big grey thing with two extra buttons for your thumb -- that doesn't work in plan9. it gets configured okay, but what it sends isn't what the driver expects and I can't make sense of it (not that I've tried, really). the logitech cordless optical works fine, however. I love being rid of the cord and the mechanical ball, but the scroll wheel is kind of annoying. shame nobody makes a wireless optical mouse with a real middle button. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 15:37:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 15:37:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4953 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 15:37:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4944 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 15:37:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 15:37:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5ABCA199BF; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 01:37:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mcp.csh.rit.edu (mcp.csh.rit.edu [129.21.60.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DBCDA199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 01:36:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from fury.csh.rit.edu (fury.csh.rit.edu [129.21.60.5]) by mcp.csh.rit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30F09A116 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 01:36:01 -0500 (EST) From: George Gensure To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] bootdir Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 01:36:00 -0500 (EST) I've been trying to rebuild a kernel to do cpu/auth (not that this is specific to that), and cannot get a kernel to compile with a bootdir section in the config. I read the wiki regarding bootdir, but it all seemed to go on the premise that the scripts to set up the build worked correctly. From this bootdir entry bootdir factotum.hack factotum mkboot generates this in bootpcauth.c Method method[] = { { "factotum.hack", configfactotum.hack, configfactotum.hack factotum }, } anyone know how to get bootdir to work right? -George werkt@csh.rit.edu From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 16:07:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 16:07:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6066 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 16:07:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6052 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 16:07:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 16:07:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 76B51199EC; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 02:07:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A78C7199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 02:06:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bootdir From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 08:06:48 +0100 This is mine for a machine using kfs. Beware that the entry bootpcdisk.out is for a 'pcdisk' $CONF. bootdir bootpcdisk.out boot /386/bin/ip/ipconfig factotum.hack factotum /386/bin/disk/kfs /386/bin/redirfs /386/bin/badsrv /386/bin/cfs If you are going to use scripts (as I do for my auth server), you will need a few common tools. For example, for a cpu server using fossil: bootdir /386/bin/rc /386/bin/cat /rc/lib/rcmain /386/bin/bind /386/bin/cp /386/bin/echo /386/bin/mount /386/bin/sleep /386/bin/fossil/fossil /386/bin/venti/venti /386/bin/disk/fdisk /386/bin/disk/prep /sys/lib/sysconfig/aquamar/boot /sys/lib/sysconfig/aquamar/flproto /sys/lib/sysconfig/aquamar/venti.conf bootpcaquamarfl.out boot /386/bin/ip/ipconfig ipconfig /386/bin/auth/factotum From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 17:35:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 17:35:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9194 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 17:35:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9190 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 17:35:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 17:35:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A10F8199BE; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 03:35:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from XMAIL.asuch.cas.cz (clusterb.asuch.cas.cz [147.231.136.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B3523199BC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 03:34:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from picture ([147.231.139.42]) by XMAIL.asuch.cas.cz over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:34:09 +0100 Message-ID: <000801c2d7f1$ac834750$2a8be793@gli.cas.cz> From: "peter a. cejchan" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Organization: paleobiology & paleoecology lab MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2D7FA.0E231050" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Feb 2003 08:34:09.0765 (UTC) FILETIME=[AC4D9150:01C2D7F1] Subject: [9fans] Acme 3-1 chord Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:34:09 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2D7FA.0E231050 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > In my version of wily (unix port of Acme) I've made B2 on a = directory > open the directory in the current window if the current window is a > directory.=20 > This works very well I find. It also feels right: you "execute" a > directory to "change into it". Also, .. in the title bar works better = (on > unix). > I've never had a problem with conflicts between wanting > to "execute" a directory and execute a program with=20 > the same name.=20 > ian sounds good, don't you think? would love to have sthg like that on = p9.... (just my opinion) ++pac. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2D7FA.0E231050 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>  In my version of wily  (unix = port of Acme)=20 I've made B2 on a directory
>  open the directory in the = current=20 window if the current window is a
>  directory. =

> =20 This works very well I find. It also feels right: you "execute" = a
> =20 directory to "change into it". Also, .. in the title bar works better=20 (on
>  unix).

>  I've never had a problem with = conflicts between wanting
>  to "execute" a directory and = execute a=20 program with
>  the same name.

>  = ian

sounds=20 good, don't  you think? would love to have sthg like that on=20 p9....
(just my opinion)
++pac.
 
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2D7FA.0E231050-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 17:47:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 17:47:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9527 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 17:47:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9523 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 17:47:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 17:47:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 46503199DD; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 03:47:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ns.0xfe.jp (pc-211-8-214-187.ctktv.ne.jp [211.8.214.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 14C6F199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 03:46:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from blackbird ([192.168.1.50]) by ns.0xfe.jp with smtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 18lPtO-0001qs-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 17:47:50 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <3E51F2AD.00000C.02880@blackbird> Content-Type: Text/Plain X-Mailer: IncrediMail 2001 (1850908) From: "Vester Thacker" X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-FVER: 3.0 X-CNT: ; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] Recommended resources for exploring the Plan 9 kernel. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 17:45:33 +0900 I am delving into plan9/mach kernel and am looking for some resources on kernel internals. I've completed an exhaustive search on the topic using = the google search engine, but I thought it better to ask the experts about go= od reference material instead. Any recommendations, or comments about dated material to stay away from? TIA.=0D =0D Vester Thacker=20 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 18:12:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 18:12:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10198 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 18:12:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10194 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 18:12:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 18:12:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3F711199D7; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 04:12:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-08.noos.net [212.198.2.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BA2FB199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 04:11:30 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 42621127 invoked by uid 0); 19 Feb 2003 09:11:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ntmail.noos.fr) ([195.132.22.155]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.77 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with DES-CBC3-SHA encrypted SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 19 Feb 2003 09:11:27 -0000 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030219095458.026b3340@pop.noos.fr> X-Sender: philippe.anel@pop.noos.fr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Philippe Anel Subject: Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop In-Reply-To: <517f0b3cb85a58bb1e0da61d3ed6c07d@plan9.bell-labs.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:55:09 +0100 At 20:08 18/02/03 -0500, you wrote: > >> ps: the new IBM R30+ laptops all come with Radeon7500 graphics. If mine > >> arrives soon I may report on experiences with that :) > > > > Oh!, Please let us know the results. > >don't get your hopes up. a bunch of people have talked >about writing a radeon7500 driver but i don't know anyone >who has actually started. I started ! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 18:43:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 18:43:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10849 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 18:43:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10845 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 18:43:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 18:43:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 54D7E199F2; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 04:43:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2118D199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 04:42:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h1J9gVjN024087 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 01:42:32 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <084527a7bf95b32282e855799e690716@centurytel.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GOODWILL From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 01:51:08 -0800 > Finally, a way to generate revenue from Plan 9. Thank you Dr. Ugoti. Wait. Wasn't Ugoti, as he put it, "the leader of all criminal activities in Casablanca"? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 18:54:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 18:54:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11072 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 18:54:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11068 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 18:54:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 18:54:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0D04119A05; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 04:54:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3E783199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 04:53:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18lQdv-0001kK-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:35:55 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3E52A921.7050503@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <8ef9380a.0302181010.5b1f969f@posting.google.com>, <9015471ded135864e5711abe3da86b4d@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:35:22 GMT Russ Cox wrote: >SCSI controllers not so much. LSI Logic/Symbios/NCR 53C810-based PCI SCSI controllers seem like a good deal; I typically find them cheap at computer shows. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 18:55:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 18:55:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11082 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 18:55:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11077 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 18:55:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 18:55:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CD5F719A0B; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 04:55:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0A16C19A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 04:54:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h1J9sPjN008157 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 01:54:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <8d3af0da49699008a1755854725e056f@centurytel.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Recommended resources for exploring the Plan 9 kernel. From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: <3E51F2AD.00000C.02880@blackbird> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 02:04:33 -0800 > I am delving into plan9/mach kernel and am looking for some resources on > kernel internals. I've completed an exhaustive search on the topic using the > google search engine, but I thought it better to ask the experts about good > reference material instead. Any recommendations, or comments about dated > material to stay away from? TIA. > > Vester Thacker The best resource -- in addition to the source code -- is Nemo's Kernel Notes for Plan9 3rd Ed. Look for "kernel notes" on the page below: http://plan9.escet.urjc.es/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 18:56:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 18:56:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11116 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 18:56:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11112 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 18:56:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 18:56:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0D401199BE; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 04:56:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 82BF2199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 04:55:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18lQdL-0001j4-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:35:19 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: will551 Message-ID: Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] acd compile/run problems Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:35:07 GMT hey there got acd compiling - now when I run it I get probs: in win.c in the newwindow function it tries to open /mnt/wsys/new/ctl and there is no sign of that file - what should I set this to? tx will551 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 18:59:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 18:59:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11178 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 18:59:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11174 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 18:59:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 18:59:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 27577199EE; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 04:59:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from netscape.com (r2d2.aoltw.net [64.236.137.26]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 50CC21998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 04:58:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from yoda.mcom.com ([10.128.72.204]) by netscape.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id h1J9whY24149 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 01:58:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from will551 ([10.128.73.153]) by yoda.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id HAJVPT00.FG2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:58:41 +0000 Message-ID: <0cd801c2d7fd$7a701a20$9949800a@will551> From: "Conor Williams" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3E51F2AD.00000C.02880@blackbird> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Subject: [9fans] Re: Acd Compile/Run problems Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:58:39 -0000 hi Got acd compiled properly last night - tx Russ & Nigel Now its having problems in win.c with the function newwindow... it tries to open /mnt/wsys/new/ctl but it doesnt find it... so how do I open a new window - or do I bind a hash into /dev tx will551 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 19:04:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 19:04:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11297 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 19:04:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11293 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 19:04:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 19:04:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA52519999; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 05:04:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nigel.9fs.org (cotswold.demon.co.uk [194.222.75.186]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1B7C8199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 05:03:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3d1650ddea5c07260ea2933b5fa0bf6f@9fs.org> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Acd Compile/Run problems From: nigel@9fs.org In-Reply-To: <0cd801c2d7fd$7a701a20$9949800a@will551> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-xldczztpincabtvofmqfridtmn" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:05:58 0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-xldczztpincabtvofmqfridtmn Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit run acd inside acme. --upas-xldczztpincabtvofmqfridtmn Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from 9fs.org ([192.168.100.103]) by 9fs.org; Wed Feb 19 10:01:35 GMT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by 9fs.org; Wed Feb 19 10:01:34 GMT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3732619A0C; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 04:59:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from netscape.com (r2d2.aoltw.net [64.236.137.26]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 50CC21998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 04:58:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from yoda.mcom.com ([10.128.72.204]) by netscape.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id h1J9whY24149 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 01:58:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from will551 ([10.128.73.153]) by yoda.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id HAJVPT00.FG2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:58:41 +0000 Message-ID: <0cd801c2d7fd$7a701a20$9949800a@will551> From: "Conor Williams" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3E51F2AD.00000C.02880@blackbird> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Subject: [9fans] Re: Acd Compile/Run problems Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:58:39 -0000 hi Got acd compiled properly last night - tx Russ & Nigel Now its having problems in win.c with the function newwindow... it tries to open /mnt/wsys/new/ctl but it doesnt find it... so how do I open a new window - or do I bind a hash into /dev tx will551 --upas-xldczztpincabtvofmqfridtmn-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 19:08:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 19:08:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11348 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 19:08:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11344 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 19:08:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 19:08:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D4DD19A1C; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 05:08:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-227.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.227]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B390019A0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 05:07:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4279b81e4c16d36731487eb3d24cf589@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <3E52A921.7050503@null.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 02:07:44 -0800 > LSI Logic/Symbios/NCR 53C810-based PCI SCSI controllers seem like a > good deal I think I put this in the Wiki but may have forgotten to send it to the list: LSI Logic has bought Mylex (who bought Buslogic) and killed the BT series of controllers that Plan 9 supports. The LSI/Symbios/NCR controllers in general are a good bet (but check the driver source for supported models before buying), and are now the only supported SCSI cards, *if you are buying new parts*. So far, the supported Mylex cards are still available used and it's possible that retailers have stock of them. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 22:21:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 22:21:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14642 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 22:21:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14638 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 22:21:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 22:21:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1C70D199DD; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 08:21:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nanionic (unknown [212.128.4.208]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 63F95199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 08:20:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <94840a20e30fc47c51d9344bc2a4974c@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: paurea@plan9.escet.urjc.es MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] events Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 14:20:22 +0100 I am trying to do this Inkey is 4. estart(Inkey,Stdin,1); / einit(Emouse|Ekeyboard|Inkey); for (;;) { keyev = event(&gev); switch(keyev){ case Emouse: mev=gev.mouse; if (mev.buttons==2){ goban[pos.x][pos.y]='w'; drawstone(pos,'w'); } if (mev.buttons==4){ goban[pos.x][pos.y]='d'; drawstone(pos,'d'); } if (mev.buttons==1) { goban[pos.x][pos.y]='b'; drawstone(pos,'b'); } break; case Ekeyboard: kbdc=gev.kbdc; switch(kbdc){ case qkey: case esckey: exits(0); break; } break; case Inkey: print("something for us..."); readn(Stdin,msg,1); if(msg[0]!='\n') break; readn(Stdin,msg,Msgsz); pos.x=atoi(&msg[3]); msg[3]='\0'; pos.y=atoi(&msg[1]); drawstone(pos,msg[0]); break; } From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 22:24:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 22:24:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14711 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 22:24:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14707 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 22:24:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 22:24:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 441BF199E3; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 08:24:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nanionic (unknown [212.128.4.208]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F2844199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 08:23:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <6ab179dcbf4c6ece11328ca41724fed2@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: paurea@plan9.escet.urjc.es MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] events Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 14:23:02 +0100 Sorry for the last message. I pressed the Post without noticing... I am trying to do this Inkey is 4. Stdin is 0. I have noticed two things 1) einit ignores keys others than Emouse and Ekeyboard (I noticed this looking at sources) 2) I don't get the stdin events. Something for us is never printed. Suggestions? Gorka estart(Inkey,Stdin,1); / einit(Emouse|Ekeyboard|Inkey); for (;;) { keyev = event(&gev); switch(keyev){ case Emouse: mev=gev.mouse; if (mev.buttons==2){ goban[pos.x][pos.y]='w'; drawstone(pos,'w'); } if (mev.buttons==4){ goban[pos.x][pos.y]='d'; drawstone(pos,'d'); } if (mev.buttons==1) { goban[pos.x][pos.y]='b'; drawstone(pos,'b'); } break; case Ekeyboard: kbdc=gev.kbdc; switch(kbdc){ case qkey: case esckey: exits(0); break; } break; case Inkey: print("something for us..."); readn(Stdin,msg,1); if(msg[0]!='\n') break; readn(Stdin,msg,Msgsz); pos.x=atoi(&msg[3]); msg[3]='\0'; pos.y=atoi(&msg[1]); drawstone(pos,msg[0]); break; } From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 22:34:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 22:34:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14921 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 22:34:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14917 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 22:34:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 22:34:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 927D0199E8; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 08:34:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from diogenis.ceid.upatras.gr (diogenis.ceid.upatras.gr [150.140.141.181]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2A37F199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 08:32:52 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 5986 invoked by uid 1556); 19 Feb 2003 12:27:47 -0000 From: Anastasopoulos S To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] broken acme Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 14:27:47 +0200 (EET) Hi I installed plan9 on vmware on win2k using the sources CD from 14/2/2003. The installation was without problems but acme seems broken. Pasting text does not work neither with the 1-3 chord, nor with explicit Snarf , Paste. However it is possible to Snarf text using 1-2,1-3 but you can't Paste it later. The chords work fine with rc windows. Spyros From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 22:50:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 22:50:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15103 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 22:50:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15099 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 22:50:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 22:50:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 75AB2199ED; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 08:50:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A772019999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 08:49:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Feb 19 08:49:14 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Wed Feb 19 08:49:12 EST 2003 Message-ID: <14cedd236073b004b86ee887cb5f9329@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] broken acme From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 08:49:09 -0500 Try this in a rio window: echo hello world >/dev/snarf cat /dev/snarf ps|grep vmwarefs ls -l /dev/snarf I don't think the problem is acme's fault. It's more likely that aux/vmwarefs has fallen down on the job. Which CD did you use? The standard one (which is quite old) or the bleeding edge one? (Plan9.iso or plan9-new.iso?) Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 22:57:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 22:57:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15180 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 22:57:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15176 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 22:57:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 22:57:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9A8F419A00; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 08:57:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 97DAF19999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 08:56:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Feb 19 08:56:53 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Wed Feb 19 08:56:50 EST 2003 Message-ID: <8d670231ccf253e2927478ede455ee39@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] events From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <6ab179dcbf4c6ece11328ca41724fed2@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 08:56:47 -0500 > I am trying to do this Inkey is 4. Stdin is 0. I have noticed two things > 1) einit ignores keys others than Emouse and Ekeyboard (I noticed this looking at sources) That's okay -- the other keys have been started with estart. Einit just needs to start the mouse and the keyboard. > 2) I don't get the stdin events. Something for us is never printed. Are you reading from a file? Usually stdin is the console but the keyboard will get at least half those events instead. Also, case Inkey: print("something for us..."); readn(Stdin,msg,1); this is wrong. The data has already been read and is in gev.data. Event != select. Reading one byte at a time seems like a recipe for trouble anyway, especially if UTF is involved. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 23:09:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 23:09:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15336 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 23:09:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15332 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 23:09:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 23:09:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 62088199E4; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:09:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nanionic (unknown [212.128.4.208]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6205719999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:08:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2f9b2fbae43d5ebcc2fc6068d5635dd8@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] events From: paurea@plan9.escet.urjc.es In-Reply-To: <8d670231ccf253e2927478ede455ee39@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 15:08:47 +0100 > > Are you reading from a file? Usually stdin is the console > but the keyboard will get at least half those events instead. I wanted to run the program with a pipe to the standard input. generator|consumer > > Also, > case Inkey: > print("something for us..."); > readn(Stdin,msg,1); Yes, I know, but that code isn't executed anyway... I'll take care of that when something is printed. > > Reading one byte at a time seems like a recipe > for trouble anyway, especially if UTF is involved. The program gets its input from a pipe from another program which I have written. THX. Gorka From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 23:14:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 23:14:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15412 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 23:14:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15408 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 23:14:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 23:14:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9EEC3199F2; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:14:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from diogenis.ceid.upatras.gr (diogenis.ceid.upatras.gr [150.140.141.181]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0DA411998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:13:12 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 8267 invoked by uid 1556); 19 Feb 2003 14:01:07 -0000 From: Anastasopoulos S To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] broken acme In-Reply-To: <14cedd236073b004b86ee887cb5f9329@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 16:01:07 +0200 (EET) Hi acme fails with the bleeding edge CD(downloaded on 14/2/2003) I used the old CD(Plan9.iso) under vmware and worked fine. Didn't install anything, just boot from the CD(menu option 2). Spyros From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 23:15:00 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 23:15:00 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15429 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 23:14:59 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15425 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 23:14:59 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 23:14:59 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C650119A05; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:14:25 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D72CB199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:13:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Feb 19 09:13:30 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Wed Feb 19 09:13:28 EST 2003 Message-ID: <9a6a6d2af56b7f808af4057c6d501fc9@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] events From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <2f9b2fbae43d5ebcc2fc6068d5635dd8@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:13:25 -0500 While the program is sitting there doing nothing, you can cat its /proc/pid/fd file to see what the read offset on the pipe is -- that will tell you whether the slave process has read any data from the pipe. If not, your generator program is not generating. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 23:18:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 23:18:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15476 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 23:18:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15472 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 23:18:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 23:18:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A83D519A10; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:18:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 42436199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:16:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Feb 19 09:16:11 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Wed Feb 19 09:16:09 EST 2003 Message-ID: <34fbc2bd557b7a817ed549d4e2284b3e@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bootdir From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:16:06 -0500 There's a difference between bootdir and boot. What you posted sounds like either you have boot factotum.hack factotum in your config file, or your system is a couple months old. You can run /usr/glenda/bin/rc/pull to update, assuming you are on the internet. This is the current pcauth file, which compiles fine. dev root cons arch pnp pci env pipe proc mnt srv dup rtc ssl tls cap kprof ether netif ip arp chandial ip ipv6 ipaux iproute netlog nullmedium pktmedium ptclbsum386 inferno draw screen vga vgax mouse mouse vga sd floppy dma uart link apm apmjump ether82557 pci ethermedium netdevmedium loopbackmedium misc sdata pci sdscsi uarti8250 uartpci vgamach64xx +cur ip il tcp udp ipifc icmp icmp6 port int cpuserver = 1; boot cpu boot #S/sdC0/ il local bootdir bootpcauth.out boot /386/bin/ip/ipconfig factotum.hack factotum /386/bin/disk/kfs From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 23:18:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 23:18:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15491 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 23:18:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15487 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 23:18:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 23:18:44 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D661C19A1C; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:18:29 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 41CBC19A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:17:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Feb 19 09:17:18 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Wed Feb 19 09:17:16 EST 2003 Message-ID: <7f294f0c9ca83c8bb853d0c6f2e71e57@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] broken acme From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:17:13 -0500 > acme fails with the bleeding edge CD(downloaded on 14/2/2003) you did not answer my earlier question. this problem seems more indicative of aux/vmwarefs (which provides a /dev/snarf shared between your plan 9 vm and the host os) not handling /dev/snarf right. please try the commands i sent. russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 23:32:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 23:32:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15687 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 23:32:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15683 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 23:32:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 23:32:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4F2A3199EE; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:32:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nanionic (unknown [212.128.4.208]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 53C83199ED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:31:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8e8e29794814dcea619f959a1114a727@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] events From: paurea@plan9.escet.urjc.es In-Reply-To: <9a6a6d2af56b7f808af4057c6d501fc9@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 15:31:19 +0100 > While the program is sitting there doing nothing, > you can cat its /proc/pid/fd file to see what the > read offset on the pipe is -- that will tell you > whether the slave process has read any data > from the pipe. If not, your generator program is > not generating. The data is getting there. I have already checked. I have run tail -f /tmp/b|goifc on one terminal and cat >/tmp/b on another and cat /proc/pid/fd and seen that the |data offset increased. But nothing got printed. Also changed the print for an exits just in case something was not getting flushed. Doesn't work either. Gorka From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 19 23:46:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 19 23:46:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15950 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Feb 2003 23:46:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15946 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 23:46:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 23:46:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7BD3E199DD; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:46:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.2.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 431371998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:45:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from imgw1.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (ons-imgw1 [192.168.1.66]) by fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h1JEjUcl014351 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 07:45:30 -0700 Received: from csb (csb [136.159.5.15]) by imgw1.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1JEjTMQ013008 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 07:45:29 -0700 From: andrey mirtchovski X-X-Sender: mirtchov@csb To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Recommended resources for exploring the Plan 9 kernel. In-Reply-To: <3E51F2AD.00000C.02880@blackbird> Message-ID: References: <3E51F2AD.00000C.02880@blackbird> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavis-milter (http://amavis.org/) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 07:45:29 -0700 (MST) this is also a good read: http://www.bell-labs.com/topic/books/os-book/ On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Vester Thacker wrote: > I am delving into plan9/mach kernel and am looking for some resources on > kernel internals. I've completed an exhaustive search on the topic using the > google search engine, but I thought it better to ask the experts about good > reference material instead. Any recommendations, or comments about dated > material to stay away from? TIA. > > Vester Thacker > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 00:20:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 00:20:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16340 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 00:20:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16336 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 00:20:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 00:20:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B942199BC; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:20:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (unknown [217.78.76.180]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id AD5BC199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:19:32 -0500 (EST) From: "David Agu" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20030219151932.AD5BC199E3@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] Inheritance Claim(Act Fast) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 07:19:55 ATTN:MANAGING DIRECTOR I am writing this proposal hoping that you would be of assistance in this business of mutual benefit. My name is Mr.David Agu an auditor at one of the Federal Ministries in lagos-Nigeria. During our last audit exercise,some amount of money totalling $16.5Million was discovered and traced to be owned by one late Engineer Muller Robert, a foreigner who died in a plane crash. The source of this fund was further traced to be a contract payment made to him but has remained unclaimed till now.Since his death, nobody has shown up to claim this fund and this attracted my curiosity. I therefore made a research and found out that he did not leave any next of kin in his confidential document with the ministry that he executed the contract for. A panel setup by the Federal Government on recovery of funds expects that this fund should be unquestionably claimed by any of his available foreign next of kin or alternatively the fund should be donated for arms and ammunition at a military war college here in Nigeria. Fervent valuable efforts were made by the Panel to get in touch with any of the family or relatives but all have proved to no avail. It is because of the perceived possibility of not going to be able to locate any next of kin ( he had no wife and children) that the panel under the influence of our chairman, Rtd Major General Usman Bello, that arrangement is being made for the fund to be declared UNCLAIMABLED and then be donated to the Trust Fund for arms and ammunition which will further enhance the perpetration of war in Africa and the third world in general. To forestall this move, my colleagues and I have taken it upon ourselves to source for a foreign partner who could assist in claimimg this fund for further transfer abroad. I have been given the sole mandate to source for a partner as soon as possible to that effect.All documents and proof to enable you get this fund have been carefully worked out and I am assuring you a 100% risk free involvement. Your share would be 30% of the total amount if you agree to assist while 10% would be set aside to offset all expenses in course of the transfer and the rest would be for us for investment purposes in your country. If this proposal is OK by you, and you do wish to take the advantage of the trust we hope to bestow on you and your company, then kindly reach me immediately via Fax:234-1-7597019 furnishing me with your most confidential telephone and fax numbers and exclusive email so that I can forward to you the relevant details of the transaction. I expect your urgent response. Regards, David. Fax:234-1-7597019 E-mail:agudd02@excite.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 00:24:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 00:24:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16392 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 00:24:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16388 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 00:24:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 00:24:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2DB41199ED; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:24:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BED4F199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:23:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h1JFNtBU004768 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 08:23:55 -0700 Received: (qmail 24490 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 08:23:55 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 08:23:55 -0700 Received: (qmail 24828 invoked by uid 3499); 19 Feb 2003 08:23:55 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 08:23:55 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GOODWILL In-Reply-To: <084527a7bf95b32282e855799e690716@centurytel.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 08:23:55 -0700 (MST) On Wed, 19 Feb 2003, Skip Tavakkolian wrote: > > Finally, a way to generate revenue from Plan 9. Thank you Dr. Ugoti. > > Wait. Wasn't Ugoti, as he put it, "the leader of all criminal activities > in Casablanca"? better yet. It will be untracable. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 00:32:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 00:32:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16541 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 00:32:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16537 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 00:32:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 00:32:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 92784199F2; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:32:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.prosyst.com (ns.prosyst.com [195.14.248.50]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8258B199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:31:52 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 28087 invoked by uid 1079); 19 Feb 2003 15:31:06 -0000 Message-ID: <20030219153106.28086.qmail@mail.prosyst.com> From: Nikolay Paskov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] ip resolving Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 15:31:06 GMT Hi, I have a problem with the ip resolving. I am using vmware 3.2 and I get my IP and DNS address via DHCP. cat /net/ndb shows me that I have dns and ip I can see other machines but only with IP addresses. I tried also ndb/csquery but nothing. I can resolve nothing. Nikolay From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 00:40:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 00:40:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16640 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 00:40:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16636 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 00:40:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 00:40:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 604DF19A06; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:40:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7D1FF19A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:39:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Feb 19 10:39:06 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Wed Feb 19 10:39:04 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ip resolving From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030219153106.28086.qmail@mail.prosyst.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:38:59 -0500 what does cat /net/ndb show you? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 00:44:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 00:44:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16670 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 00:44:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16666 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 00:44:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 00:44:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D628C19A0B; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:44:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.prosyst.com (ns.prosyst.com [195.14.248.50]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id D5EC819999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:43:29 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 28770 invoked by uid 1079); 19 Feb 2003 15:42:44 -0000 Message-ID: <20030219154244.28769.qmail@mail.prosyst.com> References: In-Reply-To: From: Nikolay Paskov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Re: ip resolving Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 15:42:44 GMT Russ Cox writes: > what does cat /net/ndb show you? > ip=192.168.79.128 ipmask=255.255.255.0 ipgw=192.168.79.2 dns=132.187.1.1 dns=132.187.1.3 Is that not enough ? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 00:49:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 00:49:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16779 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 00:49:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16775 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 00:49:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 00:49:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CD0BB19A04; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:49:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from edoras.nas.com (edoras.nas.com [206.63.100.8]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 34BB0199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:48:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from nas.com (unknown [164.116.190.46]) by edoras.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 052A8EB0C4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 07:48:10 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3E53A739.9050203@nas.com> From: Jack Johnson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.2a) Gecko/20020910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, es MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 07:48:09 -0800 Ronald G. Minnich wrote: > has anybody tried the $200 Walmart PCs :-) Not yet, but I'm curious as well. They use the little Via C3 integrated motherboards, if anyone else has tried those. I was at a used computer store yesterday and they had a few dozen Sun IPX/Classic/ClassicX for about $15 each. I started thinking too bad 4th Ed. doesn't support them anymore, but I might pick one up for nostalgia. Let it camp out with the BeBox. -Jack From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 00:49:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 00:49:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16786 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 00:49:52 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16782 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 00:49:52 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 00:49:52 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 700CE19A17; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:49:26 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from work (unknown [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 038BA199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:48:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4db1c17195a077f83a403c6102a3ef6d@snellwilcox.com> From: "Steve Simon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ip resolving In-Reply-To: <3291755392@snellwilcox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ftyoroblhiixvsadbcbhzuscum" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 15:44:27 0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ftyoroblhiixvsadbcbhzuscum Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You need to start the dns client after ipconfig: ip/ipconfig ndb/dns -r -Steve --upas-ftyoroblhiixvsadbcbhzuscum Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 15:31:06 +0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu bcc: "Steve Simon" From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sender: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Importance: normal Priority: normal Subject: [9fans] ip resolving Message-Id: <3291755392@snellwilcox.com> X-MIME-Engine: v0.90 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Id: <3291755392-1@snellwilcox.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I have a problem with the ip resolving. I am using vmware 3.2 and I get my = IP and DNS address via DHCP. = cat /net/ndb shows me that I have dns and ip = I can see other machines but only with IP addresses. I tried also = ndb/csquery but nothing. I can resolve nothing. = Nikolay --upas-ftyoroblhiixvsadbcbhzuscum-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 00:50:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 00:50:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16796 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 00:50:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16792 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 00:50:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 00:50:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 419D3199B7; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:50:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A0C3C199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:49:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Feb 19 10:49:07 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Wed Feb 19 10:49:05 EST 2003 Message-ID: <413e5567550e94589ac35a4bbc4944c8@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: ip resolving From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030219154244.28769.qmail@mail.prosyst.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:49:02 -0500 how did those dns servers get there? at least under my vmware, dns is served by a vmware interface at .2, so i'd expect to see dns=192.168.79.2 it's possible that windows vmware dns is different from linux vmware dns, if you are running linux. plan 9's ndb/dnsdebug is like unix's dig. try this: g% ndb/dnsdebug > @192.168.233.2 www.google.com 1.1: sending to 192.168.233.2/192.168.233.2 www.google.com ip 1: rcvd OK from 192.168.233.2 (authoritative recurse can_recurse) Q: www.google.com ip Ans: www.google.com 5 min ip 216.239.37.101 Auth: google.com 3 day 13 hr 21 ns ns1.google.com google.com 3 day 13 hr 21 ns ns2.google.com google.com 3 day 13 hr 21 ns ns3.google.com google.com 3 day 13 hr 21 ns ns4.google.com Hint: ns1.google.com 1 day 12 hr 52 ip 216.239.32.10 ns2.google.com 1 day 12 hr 37 ip 216.239.34.10 ns3.google.com 1 day 12 hr 37 ip 216.239.36.10 ns4.google.com 1 day 12 hr 52 ip 216.239.38.10 ---------------------------- answer www.google.com 5 min ip 216.239.37.101 ---------------------------- > but use 192.168.79.2 instead of 192.168.233.2. then try with the dns servers listed in your /net/ndb. if the 192.168 dns server works but the two you have don't, then we can try to figure out how they got there. russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 00:52:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 00:52:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16834 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 00:52:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16830 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 00:52:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 00:52:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0147F1998A; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:52:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.prosyst.com (ns.prosyst.com [195.14.248.50]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id DA8FC199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:51:34 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 29280 invoked by uid 1079); 19 Feb 2003 15:50:49 -0000 Message-ID: <20030219155049.29279.qmail@mail.prosyst.com> References: <4db1c17195a077f83a403c6102a3ef6d@snellwilcox.com> In-Reply-To: <4db1c17195a077f83a403c6102a3ef6d@snellwilcox.com> From: Nikolay Paskov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Re: ip resolving Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 15:50:49 GMT Steve Simon writes: > You need to start the dns client after ipconfig: > > ip/ipconfig > ndb/dns -r > > -Steve I did it! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 01:12:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 01:12:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17041 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 01:12:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17037 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 01:12:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 01:12:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 00016199E8; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 11:12:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.prosyst.com (ns.prosyst.com [195.14.248.50]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1D635199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 11:11:11 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 30187 invoked by uid 1079); 19 Feb 2003 16:10:25 -0000 Message-ID: <20030219161025.30186.qmail@mail.prosyst.com> References: <413e5567550e94589ac35a4bbc4944c8@plan9.bell-labs.com> In-Reply-To: <413e5567550e94589ac35a4bbc4944c8@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Nikolay Paskov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Re: ip resolving Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 16:10:25 GMT Now it works. Why I can't use 132.187.1.1 instead 192.168.79.2 ? I have nat what is the problem? Nikolay Russ Cox writes: > how did those dns servers get there? > at least under my vmware, dns is served > by a vmware interface at .2, so i'd expect > to see > > dns=192.168.79.2 > > it's possible that windows vmware dns is different > from linux vmware dns, if you are running linux. > > plan 9's ndb/dnsdebug is like unix's dig. > try this: > > g% ndb/dnsdebug >> @192.168.233.2 www.google.com > 1.1: sending to 192.168.233.2/192.168.233.2 www.google.com ip > 1: rcvd OK from 192.168.233.2 (authoritative recurse can_recurse) > Q: www.google.com ip > Ans: www.google.com 5 min ip 216.239.37.101 > Auth: google.com 3 day 13 hr 21 ns ns1.google.com > google.com 3 day 13 hr 21 ns ns2.google.com > google.com 3 day 13 hr 21 ns ns3.google.com > google.com 3 day 13 hr 21 ns ns4.google.com > Hint: ns1.google.com 1 day 12 hr 52 ip 216.239.32.10 > ns2.google.com 1 day 12 hr 37 ip 216.239.34.10 > ns3.google.com 1 day 12 hr 37 ip 216.239.36.10 > ns4.google.com 1 day 12 hr 52 ip 216.239.38.10 > ---------------------------- > answer www.google.com 5 min ip 216.239.37.101 > ---------------------------- >> > > but use 192.168.79.2 instead of 192.168.233.2. > then try with the dns servers listed in your /net/ndb. > > if the 192.168 dns server works but the two you > have don't, then we can try to figure out how > they got there. > > russ > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 01:19:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 01:19:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17143 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 01:19:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17138 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 01:19:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 01:19:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D2AD4199F2; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 11:19:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from edoras.nas.com (edoras.nas.com [206.63.100.8]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 25418199ED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 11:18:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from nas.com (unknown [164.116.190.46]) by edoras.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41FFFEB544 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 08:18:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3E53AE63.6010908@nas.com> From: Jack Johnson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.2a) Gecko/20020910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, es MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] broken acme References: <14cedd236073b004b86ee887cb5f9329@plan9.bell-labs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 08:18:43 -0800 Russ Cox wrote: > Which CD did you use? The standard > one (which is quite old) or the bleeding edge one? > (Plan9.iso or plan9-new.iso?) I didn't see a link to the bleeding edge iso on the Web site, but butchering the URL from the floppy image download page seems to work. -Jack From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 01:46:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 01:46:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17381 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 01:46:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17377 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 01:46:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 01:46:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CFCED19A0B; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 11:46:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.2.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 76D51199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 11:45:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from imgw1.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (ons-imgw1 [192.168.1.66]) by fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h1JGjPcl025567 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:45:25 -0700 Received: from ict720a (ict720a [136.159.10.159]) by imgw1.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1JGjOMQ019605 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:45:24 -0700 From: andrey mirtchovski X-X-Sender: mirtchov@ict720a To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: ip resolving In-Reply-To: <413e5567550e94589ac35a4bbc4944c8@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: References: <413e5567550e94589ac35a4bbc4944c8@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavis-milter (http://amavis.org/) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:45:24 -0700 (MST) On Wed, 19 Feb 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > it's possible that windows vmware dns is different > from linux vmware dns, if you are running linux. > my linux vmware has the following for dns (straight boot, haven't touched anything in the configuration except uncomment ip/ipconfig in termrc): term% cat /net/ndb ip=192.168.215.128 ipmask=255.255.255.0 ipgw=192.168.215.2 dom=.localdomain dns=192.168.215.2 term% at least 2.0 asks the user whether they want to bridge the interface or use NAT. my ethernet setting is NAT... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 01:48:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 01:48:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17395 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 01:48:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17391 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 01:48:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 01:48:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 86043199DD; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 11:48:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id AA0EC199BC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 11:47:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] why is image(6) compression so poor? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 16:50:31 0000 i recently observed that when writing a 500x500 all-white RGB24 image in image(6) format, compressed, the resulting file is 45295 bytes. gif compression, on the other hand, gives a file of 1689 bytes... is this a bug, or a limitation of the compression scheme? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 01:59:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 01:59:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17479 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 01:59:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17475 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 01:59:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 01:59:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3481919A27; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 11:59:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ACD1A19A10 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 11:58:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Feb 19 11:58:17 EST 2003 Received: from 18.24.6.245 ([18.24.6.245]) by plan9; Wed Feb 19 11:58:14 EST 2003 Message-ID: <5c11765ac0cfdf3e60598a1146aec75a@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] broken acme From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <3E53AE63.6010908@nas.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 11:58:18 -0500 the link is on the updates page. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 02:38:54 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 02:38:54 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17869 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 02:38:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17865 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 02:38:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 02:38:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B531F19A06; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 12:38:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mcp.csh.rit.edu (mcp.csh.rit.edu [129.21.60.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EBC0F199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 12:37:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from csh.rit.edu (anna.csh.rit.edu [129.21.61.4]) by mcp.csh.rit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3902A116 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 12:37:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3E53BEA1.6070707@csh.rit.edu> From: George Gensure User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020623 Debian/1.0.0-0.woody.1 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bootdir References: <34fbc2bd557b7a817ed549d4e2284b3e@plan9.bell-labs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 12:28:01 -0500 I had actually run replica/pull -v /dist/replica/network, but that didn't give me any bit of a leg up in the bootdir config section. (though it did introduce some discrepancies between addclock0link), but I'll give pull a try later today. Thanks all! -George >or your system is a couple >months old. You can run /usr/glenda/bin/rc/pull >to update, assuming you are on the internet. > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 02:39:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 02:39:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17876 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 02:39:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17872 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 02:39:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 02:39:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA43D19A04; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 12:39:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1DEAB19A27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 12:38:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Feb 19 12:38:32 EST 2003 Received: from 18.24.6.245 ([18.24.6.245]) by plan9; Wed Feb 19 12:38:29 EST 2003 Message-ID: <1f898ce79f505a32d768e1643c10ddf4@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] why is image(6) compression so poor? From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 12:38:33 -0500 > i recently observed that when writing a 500x500 all-white RGB24 image > in image(6) format, compressed, the resulting file is 45295 bytes. The compression block is a string of variable-length code words encoding substrings of the pixel data. A code word either gives the substring directly or indicates that it is a copy of data occurring previously in the pixel stream. In a code word whose first byte has the high-order bit set, the rest of the byte indicates the length of a substring encoded directly. Values from 0 to 127 encode lengths from 1 to 128 bytes. Subsequent bytes are the literal pixel data. If the high-order bit is zero, the next 5 bits encode the length of a substring copied from previous pixels. Values from 0 to 31 encode lengths from 3 to 34 bytes. The bottom two bits of the first byte and the 8 bits of the next byte encode an offset backward from the current position in the pixel data at which the copy is to be found. Values from 0 to 1023 encode offsets from 1 to 1024. The encoding may be `prescient', with the length larger than the offset, which works just fine: the new data is identical to the data at the given offset, even though the two strings overlap. Each line in the image is 1500 bytes. The first byte in a compression chunk will be raw data (1 byte code word + 1 byte data). After that each 34 bytes will store as 2 bytes of code word. The first line in each chunk will have one raw byte and then reference data, so it will be 2+(1499/34)*2 = 92 bytes. A fully compressed line will be (1500/34)*2 = 90 bytes. Each chunk stores at most 6000 compressed bytes, so you can fit 66 lines = 92+90*65 = 5942 bytes in a chunk. Each chunk header is 24 bytes, for a total of 5966 bytes. The image is 500 lines, so you'll have 7 such chunks and then a partial chunk for the last 38 lines. That last chunk will be 92+90*37+24 = 3446 bytes. There is a 72 byte header on a compressed image. 72+5996*7+3446 = 45280. You said 45295. I don't know where the other 15 bytes are. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 02:47:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 02:47:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17990 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 02:47:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17986 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 02:47:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 02:47:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DFD2119A2A; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 12:47:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 07FF0199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 12:46:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Feb 19 12:46:27 EST 2003 Received: from 18.24.6.245 ([18.24.6.245]) by plan9; Wed Feb 19 12:46:24 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: ip resolving From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030219161025.30186.qmail@mail.prosyst.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 12:46:27 -0500 > Now it works. Why I can't use 132.187.1.1 instead 192.168.79.2 ? > I have nat what is the problem? did you change it manually to 132.187.1.1? i have a hard time believing vmware set it to that. how did it get set to 132.187.1.1 in the first place? first of all, 132.187.1.1 is likely to be a router rather than a dns server. vmware may be blocking dns packets except the ones to itself. i don't know. just use the vmware ones. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 04:50:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 04:50:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19206 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 04:50:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19202 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 04:50:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 04:50:38 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D97D319A00; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 14:50:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from infocom.km.ua (infocom.km.ua [195.230.134.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B22DF199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 14:49:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from kp.km.ua (root@kp.km.ua [217.196.174.2]) by infocom.km.ua (8.12.7/8.12.7/ic) with ESMTP id h1JJnFtt062836 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 21:49:27 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Received: from localhost.localdomain (dialup11.kp.km.ua [217.196.174.26]) by kp.km.ua (kp.km.ua/8.12.6/kp-branch) with SMTP id h1JJn6Tc067618 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 21:49:13 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" From: "A.S. Kukhar" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <03021921415400.00582@localhost.localdomain> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] How Apache & Plan 9 will defeat Microsoft`s Passport Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 21:46:35 -0500 hi, today found in google: http://www.linuxworld.com/site-stories/2002/0918.plan9-p2.html -kyxap From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 05:19:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 05:19:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19382 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 05:19:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19378 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 05:19:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 05:19:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2F42C19A04; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 15:19:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1B1AB19A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 15:18:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1c1bb0ba4a6765bbeba4ea5a77f928f7@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] why is image(6) compression so poor? From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 20:21:24 0000 > 72+5996*7+3446 = 45280. serves me right for not doing some simple arithmetic! actually, it's interesting to observe that for small files image(6) compression is sometimes better than gif. overall though, its files seem to average about 50% bigger (at least that's what the font images average). it's probably worth it when the compression and decompression routines combined come to only 272 lines! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 06:58:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 06:58:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20194 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 06:58:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20190 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 06:58:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 06:58:36 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C08A919A00; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 16:58:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DEE39199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 16:57:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <76bb1f25b029cc3a1ddf5e8d3a3a8805@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] events In-Reply-To: <6ab179dcbf4c6ece11328ca41724fed2@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 16:57:42 -0500 event(2): >>> Einit must be called first. If the argument to einit has the Emouse and Ekeyboard bits set, the mouse and keyboard events will be enabled; in this case, initdraw (see graphics(2)) must have already been called. The user must provide a function called eresized to be called whenever the window in which the process is running has been resized; the argument new is a flag specifying whether the program must call getwindow (see graphics(2)) to re-establish a connec- tion to its window. After resizing (and perhaps calling getwindow), the global variable screen will be updated to point to the new window's Image structure. Your code: estart(Inkey,Stdin,1); / einit(Emouse|Ekeyboard|Inkey); Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 07:33:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 07:33:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20634 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 07:33:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20630 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 07:33:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 07:33:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 863D319A05; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 17:33:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from unicorn.math.spbu.ru (unicorn.math.spbu.ru [195.19.226.166]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 31677199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 17:32:11 -0500 (EST) Received: (from vugluskr@localhost) by unicorn.math.spbu.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA06185 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 01:32:05 +0300 From: "Roman V. Shaposhnick" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20030220013204.A6122@unicorn.math.spbu.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3i Subject: [9fans] sendfile interface Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 01:32:04 +0300 While studying how Linux implements sendfile(2), I couldn't help but notice, that it is yet another hack a'la mmap. "There must be a better way to do that" I though at the moment. Now, I imagine, that for Plan9 there should be no problem telling kernel that one Chan should server as an "alias", or proxy if you will, for another one. By doing that, it should be possible to eliminate the whole "copy to userland buffer; copy back to kernel" routine and it could be even possible to utilize hardware scattered-write. How easy it will be for network connections ? Or may be I'm stretching my imagination too far, and there's no really a better way to do it. Please comment. Thanks, Roman. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 07:36:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 07:36:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20686 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 07:36:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20682 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 07:36:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 07:36:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B33C419A19; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 17:36:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from unicorn.math.spbu.ru (unicorn.math.spbu.ru [195.19.226.166]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 508B819988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 17:35:44 -0500 (EST) Received: (from vugluskr@localhost) by unicorn.math.spbu.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA06214 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 01:35:43 +0300 From: "Roman V. Shaposhnick" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20030220013543.B6122@unicorn.math.spbu.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3i Subject: [9fans] rio gestures Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 01:35:43 +0300 The other idea I had today (I'm having a busy day, indeed) is: wouldn't it be helpful to have some kind of gestures recognition in rio. Like when you draw a circle new rc window opens up, etc. I'm sure Rob has though of it already, so the fact that this is missing from rio means that there have to be some drawbacks ;-) Now, what are they ? Thanks, Roman. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 09:05:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 09:05:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21744 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 09:05:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21740 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 09:05:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 09:05:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E0EC719A02; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 19:05:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6DE4A199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 19:04:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA05708 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 19:04:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1K04KM05165 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 19:04:20 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302200004.h1K04KM05165@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Dan Cross Subject: [9fans] Okay, Russ, libsunrpc? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 19:04:20 -0500 So this begs the real question: When do we see an AFS client for Plan 9? :-) - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 09:13:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 09:13:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22011 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 09:13:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22007 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 09:13:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 09:13:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E4F3F19A26; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 19:13:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailhost.det3.ameritech.net (mailhost2-sfldmi.sfldmi.ameritech.net [206.141.193.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 473A2199BC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 19:12:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from ameritech.net ([67.38.15.139]) by mailhost.det3.ameritech.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with ESMTP id <20030220001157.DRNW176.mailhost.det3.ameritech.net@ameritech.net> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 19:11:57 -0500 Message-ID: <3E541D20.8060206@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Okay, Russ, libsunrpc? References: <200302200004.h1K04KM05165@augusta.math.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 19:11:12 -0500 > > >So this begs the real question: When do we see an AFS client for Plan 9? > Are you offering? > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 10:10:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 10:10:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24618 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 10:10:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24614 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 10:10:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 10:10:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 83A15199F2; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 20:10:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E95F199BC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 20:09:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Feb 19 20:09:41 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Wed Feb 19 20:09:39 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Okay, Russ, libsunrpc? From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <200302200004.h1K04KM05165@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 20:09:46 -0500 I am not proud of having to use Sun RPC, but libsunrpc seems like a particularly clean way to use it, and hey you get a highly concurrent nfs client almost for free. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 12:49:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 12:49:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29854 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 12:49:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29850 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 12:49:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 12:49:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 41529199E8; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 22:49:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BC87C1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 22:48:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h1K3mURV009922 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 20:48:30 -0700 Received: (qmail 31829 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2003 20:48:30 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 20:48:30 -0700 Received: (qmail 29900 invoked by uid 3499); 19 Feb 2003 20:48:30 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 19 Feb 2003 20:48:30 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Okay, Russ, libsunrpc? In-Reply-To: <200302200004.h1K04KM05165@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 20:48:30 -0700 (MST) On Wed, 19 Feb 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > So this begs the real question: When do we see an AFS client for Plan 9? > actually, the beauty of Plan 9 is it hardly matters -- it's just a program, right? it's rather amazing to see the amount of re-plumbing going into Linux VFS nowadays for new file systems. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 13:20:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 13:20:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30966 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 13:20:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30961 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 13:20:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 13:20:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2FC4E199D5; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 23:20:19 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.177]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BF8FA19988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 23:19:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from [212.227.126.205] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18liB5-0005rf-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 05:19:19 +0100 Received: from [219.65.128.208] (helo=agni) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18liB4-0001Kj-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 05:19:19 +0100 From: Martin C.Atkins To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] So What is P9 good for..... Message-Id: <20030220082249.5f408431.martin@mca-ltd.com> In-Reply-To: <20030218092315.46aa00cc.ggm@apnic.net> References: <506b74fe73f255fd923ee3f5e5d6e688@mightycheese.com> <20030218092315.46aa00cc.ggm@apnic.net> Organization: Mission Critical Applications Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.4claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 08:22:49 +0530 On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:23:15 +1000 George Michaelson wrote: >... > Maybe you'd rather be using PNX on a Perq? A system with an editor for the > animated cursors? A system which let you see memory usage by stealing graphic > memory for compilaton? Ah yes - the system with one of the most bizarre bugs I've ever come across: If your user name was 6 or 7 letters long, and ended in an 'n', then after logging in, your environment was corrupt! Guess why I changed my username from 'martin' to 'mca' on our PNX machine, after one very frustrating afternoon! Martin -- Martin C. Atkins martin@mca-ltd.com Mission Critical Applications Ltd, U.K. http://www.mca-ltd.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 13:37:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 13:37:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31470 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 13:37:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31466 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 13:37:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 13:37:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C57FC19A0B; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 23:37:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0F993199BC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 23:36:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp ([61.211.130.19]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 13:36:07 JST 2003 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Subject: [9fans] fossil/flfmt Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 13:36:07 +0900 Hello, What is the form of -v option of flfmt? term% fossil/flfmt -yh pc -v vac:24c6c00e90a0e25ea4c5058952f4f5a4502c2a67 /dev/sdD1/fossil.1 diskThread 669 fatal error: bad score 'vac:24c6c00e90a0e25ea4c5058952f4f5a4502c2a67' term% fossil/flfmt -yh pc -v 24c6c00e90a0e25ea4c5058952f4f5a4502c2a67 /dev/sdD1/fossil.1 diskThread 723 5cce0efe8e82c939497912687c1d109fcdc33375 0b66aefb5898ebdc6a8cd9deaf9f1254d24a31ea 03dfd8e685dbf03f8990e09f95059114a78d7cfd diskThread done diskThread 725 fs->ehi 1 fs->elo 1 active=1 got fs source got file root .. manual says: Perhaps because the disk has been corrupted or replaced, format a new file system using the last archive score printed on the console: fossil/flfmt -v vac:b9b3...5559 /dev/sdC0/fossil Which is wrong? Kenji Arisawa From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 13:57:53 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 13:57:53 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32233 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 13:57:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32229 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 13:57:51 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 13:57:51 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1A383199ED; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 23:57:40 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 76A12199BC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 2003 23:56:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Feb 19 23:56:08 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Wed Feb 19 23:56:06 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fossil/flfmt From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 23:56:04 -0500 it's without the vac:. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 14:27:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 14:27:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 734 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 14:27:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 730 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 14:27:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 14:27:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8A6A719A1C; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 00:27:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DA63F199BC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 00:26:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp ([61.211.130.19]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 14:26:33 JST 2003 Subject: Re: [9fans] fossil/flfmt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 14:26:33 +0900 Thanks Russ, The message from fossil/flfmt -yh pc -v 24c6c00e90a0e25ea4c5058952f4f5a4502c2a67 /dev/sdD1/fossil.1 continues: fatal error: could not create file: active: file already exists How to avoid this error? Kenji Arisawa From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 18:51:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 18:51:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8844 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 18:51:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8840 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 18:51:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 18:51:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0EFD019A25; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 04:51:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 99A0D19A27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 04:50:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18lnBe-0004B3-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 09:40:14 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: David Bulkow Message-ID: <3E53F668.8392DB4D@sw.stratus.com> Organization: Stratus Computer (DE) Inc, Maynard MA, USA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] /rc/bin/C -r Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 09:39:58 GMT It looks like the rc script C, recently updated, lost its notion of the -r argument. I moved "opt=-r" from the "case *" to before the while and things started behaving as they did before the update. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 19:15:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 19:15:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9445 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 19:15:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9441 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 19:15:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 19:15:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A3C59199D5; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 05:15:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.prosyst.com (ns.prosyst.com [195.14.248.50]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 69D9E1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 05:14:03 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 14995 invoked by uid 1079); 20 Feb 2003 10:13:16 -0000 Message-ID: <20030220101316.14994.qmail@mail.prosyst.com> References: In-Reply-To: From: Nikolay Paskov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Re: ip resolving Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 10:13:16 GMT Russ Cox writes: >> Now it works. Why I can't use 132.187.1.1 instead 192.168.79.2 ? >> I have nat what is the problem? > > did you change it manually to 132.187.1.1? > i have a hard time believing vmware set it to that. > how did it get set to 132.187.1.1 in the first place? > > first of all, 132.187.1.1 is likely to be a router > rather than a dns server. vmware may be blocking > dns packets except the ones to itself. i don't know. > just use the vmware ones. > No, 132.187.1.1 is not a router I'm using it as DNS server on my linux box. I changed it manually of course. But may be you are right about blocking from vmware side. I have to check this. BTW now I have a problem with the DHCP server. Nothing is changed in configuration only rebooted and now I have no response from the DHCP server. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 20:19:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 20:19:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10462 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 20:19:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10458 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 20:19:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 20:19:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F135B199E8; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 06:19:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nanionic (unknown [212.128.4.208]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 91AA6199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 06:18:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] events From: paurea@plan9.escet.urjc.es In-Reply-To: <76bb1f25b029cc3a1ddf5e8d3a3a8805@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 12:18:30 +0100 > event(2): > > estart(Inkey,Stdin,1); / > einit(Emouse|Ekeyboard|Inkey); > Thanks a lot!!!. Such a stupid bug!!. When you come here I'll invite you to a beer ☺. THX. Gorka From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 22:22:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 22:22:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12577 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 22:22:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12573 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 22:22:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 22:22:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4F1C8199F2; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 08:22:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from diogenis.ceid.upatras.gr (diogenis.ceid.upatras.gr [150.140.141.181]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3EF111998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 08:21:48 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 20708 invoked by uid 1556); 20 Feb 2003 13:19:55 -0000 From: Anastasopoulos S To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] broken acme Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 15:19:55 +0200 (EET) Hi About yesterday's problem with pasting in acme. It seems that Russ is right. The problem is with vmwarefs. Using Russ's code in a rio window term% echo hello world >/dev/snarf term% cat /dev/snarf term% ps|grep vmwarefs anastas 49 0:00 0:00 136K Pread vmwarefs term% ls -l /dev/snarf --rw-rw-rw- M 15 vmware vmware 0 Feb 19 04:13 /dev/snarf term% Now if i start using mouse chords in the same window, it behaves strangely. If i comment out aux/vmwarefs from termrc everything is fine. The settings are Plan9 installed on vmware on win2kSP2 using the bleeding edge CD(14/2/2003). Spyros From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 23:26:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 23:26:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13441 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 23:26:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13436 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 23:26:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 23:26:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 01EC519A04; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 09:26:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A813B199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 09:25:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Feb 20 09:25:00 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Thu Feb 20 09:24:58 EST 2003 Message-ID: <7fe2e5b3cad2e80df8f549fcfb3767ba@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: ip resolving From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030220101316.14994.qmail@mail.prosyst.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 09:24:58 -0500 > No, 132.187.1.1 is not a router I'm using it as DNS server on my linux box. > I changed it manually of course. But may be you are right about blocking > from vmware side. I have to check this. BTW now I have a problem with the > DHCP server. Nothing is changed in configuration only rebooted and now I > have no response from the DHCP server. reboot again. there appears to be a bug in the new ip drop-if-no-default-route code. russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 23:35:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 23:35:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13571 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 23:35:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13567 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 23:35:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 23:35:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E871319A02; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 09:35:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.prosyst.com (ns.prosyst.com [195.14.248.50]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 289E31998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 09:34:15 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 24352 invoked by uid 1079); 20 Feb 2003 14:33:28 -0000 Message-ID: <20030220143328.24351.qmail@mail.prosyst.com> From: Nikolay Paskov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] vmware & replica Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 14:33:28 GMT Hi, Is there a problem with vmware and replica? I ran disk/kfscmd allow replica/pull -v /dist/replica/network disk/kfscmd disallow after that I rebooted the system and plan9 rejected to get the IP address and DNS server via DHCP. My log file looks like that. Feb 20 15:06:18 wrzx79 vmnet-dhcpd: DHCPDISCOVER from 00:50:56:40:d3:e1 via vmnet8 Feb 20 15:06:18 wrzx79 vmnet-dhcpd: DHCPOFFER on 192.168.79.128 to 00:50:56:40:d3:e1 via vmnet8 I made an experiment and run clear copy. There was no problem. Feb 20 16:10:25 wrzx79 vmnet-dhcpd: DHCPDISCOVER from 00:50:56:40:d3:e1 via vmnet8 Feb 20 16:10:26 wrzx79 vmnet-dhcpd: DHCPOFFER on 192.168.79.128 to 00:50:56:40:d3:e1 via vmnet8 Feb 20 11:38:26 wrzx79 vmnet-dhcpd: DHCPREQUEST for 192.168.79.128 from 00:50:56:40:d3:e1 via vmnet8 Feb 20 11:38:27 wrzx79 vmnet-dhcpd: DHCPACK on 192.168.79.128 to 00:50:56:40:d3:e1 via vmnet8 Did I make something wrong ? Nikolay From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 23:37:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 23:37:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13629 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 23:37:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13624 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 23:37:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 23:37:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8373A19A06; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 09:37:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.prosyst.com (ns.prosyst.com [195.14.248.50]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 84DF8199A3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 09:36:39 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 24440 invoked by uid 1079); 20 Feb 2003 14:35:52 -0000 Message-ID: <20030220143552.24439.qmail@mail.prosyst.com> References: <7fe2e5b3cad2e80df8f549fcfb3767ba@plan9.bell-labs.com> In-Reply-To: <7fe2e5b3cad2e80df8f549fcfb3767ba@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Nikolay Paskov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Re: ip resolving Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 14:35:52 GMT Russ Cox writes: >> No, 132.187.1.1 is not a router I'm using it as DNS server on my linux box. >> I changed it manually of course. But may be you are right about blocking >> from vmware side. I have to check this. BTW now I have a problem with the >> DHCP server. Nothing is changed in configuration only rebooted and now I >> have no response from the DHCP server. > > reboot again. there appears to be a bug in the > new ip drop-if-no-default-route code. I did but nothing still the same mistake. Nikolay From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 20 23:45:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 20 23:45:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13733 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Feb 2003 23:45:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13729 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2003 23:45:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Feb 2003 23:45:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F0E0C19A19; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 09:45:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 20C3219A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 09:44:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Feb 20 09:44:43 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Thu Feb 20 09:44:41 EST 2003 Message-ID: <0a9a3ca811fbf5955bf19f0dea746255@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] broken acme From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 09:44:43 -0500 I'm running VMware 3.2 (build 2230) right now on Windows XP, and have no problems with the snarf buffer. I used Windows 2000 for a while also with no problems. Perhaps you are running some other Windows program that is doing weird things with the snarf buffer? Does copy and paste work in, say, notepad? Another thing to try would be to copy something in Windows and then cat /dev/snarf in Plan 9. I think this might be a VMware bug rather than a Plan 9 bug. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 21 02:27:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 21 02:27:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15379 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Feb 2003 02:27:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15375 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 02:27:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 02:27:48 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6DEA819A0B; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 12:27:43 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from progetplus.it (host142-156.pool80117.interbusiness.it [80.117.156.142]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 32703199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 12:23:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail pickup service by progetplus.it with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 18:08:28 +0000 From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_3E67_01C2D90B.11728260" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Message-ID: <010332808181423PROGETPLUS01@progetplus.it> Subject: [9fans] =?iso-8859-1?B?RGllIFJldm9sdXRpb24gZGVyIEVyc2F0enRlaWw=?= =?iso-8859-1?B?ZQ==?= Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 18:08:28 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_3E67_01C2D90B.11728260 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The spare parts revolution The first appliance dedicated to all companies to meet the requirements and the problems referring to the spare parts management. 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    ------=_NextPart_000_3E67_01C2D90B.11728260-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 21 06:55:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 21 06:55:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18032 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Feb 2003 06:55:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18028 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 06:55:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 06:55:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 72FC019A10; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 16:55:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A4F211998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 16:54:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Feb 20 16:54:09 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Thu Feb 20 16:54:07 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fossil/flfmt From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 16:54:05 -0500 I have fixed flfmt and the documentation. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 21 06:57:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 21 06:57:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18059 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Feb 2003 06:57:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18055 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 06:57:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 06:57:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6E46D199F2; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 16:57:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1C2D119A28 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 16:56:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <891a0cb45fec0f01785428ab6335d7e0@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware & replica In-Reply-To: <20030220143328.24351.qmail@mail.prosyst.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 16:56:14 -0500 I put out new kernels that fix this and a bunch of other weird bugs you might have observed over the last couple days. The new ipoput "no route" code signaled the lack of route by erroring but some callers weren't expecting an error. Dave changed it to be a return value, and now things seem better. In particular it should fix the DHCP problem. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 21 08:39:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 21 08:39:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19016 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Feb 2003 08:39:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19012 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 08:39:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 08:39:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 905A619A1C; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 18:39:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from bs-ams-03.gt.rr.com (unknown [24.93.36.233]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CB72F19A10 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 18:38:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from NICK (cs2416799-237.satx.rr.com [24.167.99.237]) by bs-ams-03.gt.rr.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with SMTP id h1KMFopk016894 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 17:25:55 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <200302202325.h1KMFopk016894@bs-ams-03.gt.rr.com> From: "Greg Senar" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] xraven.com - This is the site Mark Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: gregsenar108@hotmail.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 18:27:01 -0800 Forget those file-sharing programs, their files are old and take forever to download. This site, on the other hand, has a whole bunch of new movies that have just been released in theatres. And, the best part...you can download full length DVD quality porn movies for free. It's a must see Mark, I know you'll love it. Have a peek: http://www.xraven.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 21 09:12:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 21 09:12:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19570 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Feb 2003 09:11:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19558 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 09:11:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 09:11:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DBE0619A2C; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 19:11:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from unix127.hosting-network.com (unknown [66.186.208.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1AC5E199BC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 19:10:04 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 74394 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 00:10:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cc77109e) (144.137.102.175) by node-13.hosting-network.com with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 00:10:47 -0000 X-Comments: BlackMail headers - Mail to abuse@featureprice.com to report spam. X-Authenticated-Connect: 144.137.102.175 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 19:10:47(EST) on February 20, 2003 X-HELO-From: cc77109e X-Mail-From: X-Sender-IP-Address: 144.137.102.175 Message-ID: <047801c2d93d$98424eb0$0100000a@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <00f901c2d475$53f82a30$6501a8c0@kike> Subject: Re: [9fans] anyone in Brisbane / Sydney / Tokyo Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:10:03 +1100 I live in Sydney these days. brucee ----- Original Message ----- From: "matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 9:06 AM Subject: [9fans] anyone in Brisbane / Sydney / Tokyo > Hi, > > I'm off on my travels on Tuesday. > Flying to Brisbane via Tokyo. I'll only be in Tokyo to transfer flights. > > I'll be in Brisbane from then until 18th March [staying in Surfers Paradise] > but on the way back I get a stopover in Sydney & enough time in Tokyo to > leave the airport. > > Anyone in the area prepared to put up with my company at all? > Particularly in Brisbane. I'm travelling alone but meeting up with my > parents in Brisbane. > > I'm not trying to get accommodation, all that's sorted but I've got a month > in Brisbane to spend and I'll probably miss my geekiness. > > I've heard Australia has a strange phenomenon called "sunshine" which makes > me a bit nervous ;) > > > I'll have my iPaq with me [complete with a Wavelan - thank you ebay] so I > won't be totally native. > > > oh, btw. please don't burgle me while I'm away. > > Matt > > > > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 21 09:17:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 21 09:17:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19732 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Feb 2003 09:17:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19727 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 09:17:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 09:17:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6E04219A31; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 19:17:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from littlegreenmen.armory.com (littlegreenmen.armory.com [192.122.209.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0BD0A19A06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 19:16:47 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 20594 invoked by uid 0); 21 Feb 2003 00:16:46 -0000 From: Phil White To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] xraven.com - This is the site Mark Message-ID: <20030221001646.GC3679@littlegreenmen.armory.com> References: <200302202325.h1KMFopk016894@bs-ams-03.gt.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200302202325.h1KMFopk016894@bs-ams-03.gt.rr.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 16:16:46 -0800 Damnit Mark! I'm _SICK_ of your friends mailing the list! Give them your offline email address and leave it at that. For crying out loud, you don't need all your mail to funnel through here! -Phil/CERisE On Thu, Feb 20, 2003 at 06:27:01PM -0800, Greg Senar wrote: > > Forget those file-sharing programs, their files are old and take forever to download. This site, on the other hand, has a whole bunch of new movies that have just been released in theatres. > And, the best part...you can download full length DVD quality porn movies for free. It's a must see Mark, I know you'll love it. > > Have a peek: > http://www.xraven.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 21 09:50:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 21 09:50:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20954 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Feb 2003 09:50:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20897 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 09:50:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 09:50:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E132719A06; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 19:50:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 242CA199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 19:49:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] output of ps(1) memory usage Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 09:51:14 +0900 Is the output of ps(1) on the amount of used memory will not shrink natural? If so, what is the reason? I'm seeing this for threaded programs such as ame and marsv. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 21 10:11:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 21 10:11:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21817 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Feb 2003 10:11:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21811 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 10:11:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 10:11:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 95644199EE; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 20:11:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E33E3199ED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 20:10:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Feb 20 20:10:49 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Thu Feb 20 20:10:47 EST 2003 Message-ID: <619e37293fcc0c4b393fce088c3ed209@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] output of ps(1) memory usage From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 20:10:46 -0500 > Is the output of ps(1) on the amount of used memory will not > shrink natural? I think you're asking whether the amount of memory used by a process ever shrinks. The answer to that is no. > If so, what is the reason? Almost all programs allocate memory by increasing the size of the data segment (see brk(2)). It's possible to reduce the size, but first you have to get all the good data out of the area you're about to give back. The standard malloc/free interface does not attempt to give anything back. It probably should, but it's not much of an issue for us -- once we clear out our memory leaks programs tend to reach a steady size and then not grow further. > I'm seeing this for threaded programs such as ame and marsv. Leak(1) will check a running program for memory leaks, in case you are concerned about that. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 21 10:19:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 21 10:19:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22112 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Feb 2003 10:19:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22108 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 10:19:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 10:19:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D465F19A25; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 20:19:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DA5F519A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 20:18:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from [67.121.120.206] (HELO waakzaamheid.mightycheese.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.7) with ESMTP id 473629 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 19:18:56 -0600 Message-ID: <41706557b18dff86f88ef2e43951ad0c@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] output of ps(1) memory usage From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <619e37293fcc0c4b393fce088c3ed209@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 17:18:55 -0800 Also, in case it's not obvious, when you see something like %% ps | grep rio rob 13 0:04 0:46 1280K Rendez rio rob 133 0:00 0:00 1280K Pread rio rob 134 0:00 0:00 1280K Pread rio rob 135 0:00 0:00 1280K Rendez rio rob 136 0:00 0:00 1280K Pread rio rob 137 0:01 0:01 1280K Pread rio rob 138 0:00 0:00 1280K Await rio rob 153 0:00 0:00 1280K Await rio rob 193 0:00 0:00 1280K Await rio rob 863 0:00 0:00 1280K Await rio rob 1721 0:00 0:00 1280K Await rio rob 1828 0:00 0:00 1280K Await rio rob 2191 0:00 0:00 1280K Await rio %% that 1280K is almost entirely a shared single copy of the memory. The only part not in common is a single page (most likely) of per-process stack. In other words, don't add up the memory column of ps to decide how much memory is in use. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 21 10:55:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 21 10:55:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23417 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Feb 2003 10:55:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23413 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 10:55:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 10:55:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 850A519A00; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 20:55:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 707C1199ED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 20:54:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <635db889d1bc3a9e84ea7455370aa642@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] output of ps(1) memory usage From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:55:46 +0900 I'm now fighting against possible memory leak of marsv. >> Is the output of ps(1) on the amount of used memory will not >> shrink natural? > > I think you're asking whether the amount of memory > used by a process ever shrinks. The answer to that is no. I should have been more clear. The background of my question was that I first showed a image(206554 bytes), and the ps(1) results are: okamoto 478 0:07 0:00 35988K Rendez marsv okamoto 479 0:00 0:00 35988K Pread marsv okamoto 480 0:00 0:00 35988K Pread marsv then, cleared it, and read again a smaller image(21698 bytes), and the results are: okamoto 478 0:15 0:00 35988K Rendez marsv okamoto 479 0:00 0:00 35988K Pread marsv okamoto 480 0:00 0:00 35988K Pread marsv This was the reason why I asked the previous question. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 21 11:06:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 21 11:06:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24084 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Feb 2003 11:06:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24069 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 11:06:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 11:06:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C56491998A; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:06:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8F0C61998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:05:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3e2bd62dcc1b386f03f9631346f980e9@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] output of ps(1) memory usage Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:06:45 +0900 Then, I tried to use leak(1) following the man page. term% leak -s marsv leak -s 563 564 565 term% leak -b marsv|rc|page /sys/lib/acid/pool:1: (error) pushfile: /sys/src/libc/port/pool.acid: '/sys/src/libc/port/pool.acid' does not exist /sys/lib/acid/leak:4: (error) pushfile: /sys/src/libc/port/pool.acid: '/sys/src/libc/port/pool.acid' does not exist :2: (error) no function leakdump aux/acidleak: no allocated data region page: short read reading I must be doing something fool... Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 21 11:09:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 21 11:09:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24184 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Feb 2003 11:09:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24180 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 11:09:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 11:09:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EDE9B19A00; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:09:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 29D9A199EE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:08:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Feb 20 21:08:05 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Thu Feb 20 21:08:03 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] output of ps(1) memory usage From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <3e2bd62dcc1b386f03f9631346f980e9@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:08:02 -0500 cd /sys/src/libc/port mk pool.acid Then try it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 21 11:24:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 21 11:24:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24719 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Feb 2003 11:24:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24714 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 11:24:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 11:24:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C31E19A00; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:24:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4664F1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:23:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <9dcd912ab134d49757c8174b492abbb0@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] output of ps(1) memory usage In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-scbbbdnlmmjnbjlwiwjnwensjw" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:23:38 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-scbbbdnlmmjnbjlwiwjnwensjw Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cat /dev/swap to see how much memory is really inuse. The first number is the number of pages used by user procs. --upas-scbbbdnlmmjnbjlwiwjnwensjw Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Feb 20 19:50:25 EST 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Feb 20 19:50:23 EST 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BEBF919988; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 19:50:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 242CA199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 19:49:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] output of ps(1) memory usage Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 09:51:14 +0900 Is the output of ps(1) on the amount of used memory will not shrink natural? If so, what is the reason? I'm seeing this for threaded programs such as ame and marsv. Kenji --upas-scbbbdnlmmjnbjlwiwjnwensjw-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 21 11:28:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 21 11:28:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24862 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Feb 2003 11:28:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24856 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 11:28:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 11:28:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C7C4E19A19; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:28:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mx2.net.titech.ac.jp (mx2.net.titech.ac.jp [131.112.125.31]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 79B8D19A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:27:57 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 66951 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 02:27:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vc2.net.titech.ac.jp) (131.112.125.36) by mx2.net.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 02:27:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO o.cc.titech.ac.jp) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 02:27:56 -0000 Received: from p9t by mail-o.cc.titech.ac.jp (8.11.3/1.1.10.5/20Feb97-0455PM) id h1L2RtW494556; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:27:55 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] output of ps(1) memory usage From: YAMANASHI Takeshi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:27:52 +0900 > cat /dev/swap to see how much memory is really inuse. Is there an easy way to determine the amount of memory really inuse (or physically mapped?) within a process? -- YAMANASHI Takeshi From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 21 11:32:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 21 11:32:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25008 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Feb 2003 11:32:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25000 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 11:32:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 11:32:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 950BF19A25; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:32:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D66F199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:31:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Feb 20 21:31:02 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Thu Feb 20 21:30:59 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] output of ps(1) memory usage From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:30:58 -0500 ps shows how much is physically mapped within a process, and reading /proc/pid/segment will show you exactly where it is mapped. the hard part comes when you want to figure out the total for a set of processes, because figuring out the intersection is not so easy. for procs sharing memory, only the stacks are different, and stacks tend to be only a page or two, so as rob said, what's listed in ps applies to the collection of procs pretty well. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 21 11:34:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 21 11:34:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25102 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Feb 2003 11:34:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25098 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 11:34:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 11:34:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC10319A2D; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:34:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6F8D819A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:33:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] output of ps(1) memory usage From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-krelwrbwoxcjmpldlfvboiufrn" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:34:50 +0900 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-krelwrbwoxcjmpldlfvboiufrn Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wao! I did by the command of term% leak -b marsv | rc | page and waited about 2 minutes, I got a wonderfull image of memory usage. I have 2/3 of dark blue region, separated into major three parts, and 1/3 of yellow region, and very very small but many parts od bright blue, and small amounts of dark or bright red (not easy to distinguish them). So, the main anxious of mine, that is large part of red region, is disappeared. I appreciate the developpers of Plan 9 to provide us such a nice tool of leak(1). Kenji --upas-krelwrbwoxcjmpldlfvboiufrn Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp ([192.168.1.3]) by diabase; Fri Feb 21 11:17:31 JST 2003 Received: from elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.103.2]) by granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17658 for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:08:07 +0900 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (8.9.3/3.7W-02121711) with ESMTP id LAA17774 for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:09:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EDE9B19A00; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:09:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 29D9A199EE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:08:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Feb 20 21:08:05 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Thu Feb 20 21:08:03 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] output of ps(1) memory usage From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <3e2bd62dcc1b386f03f9631346f980e9@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:08:02 -0500 cd /sys/src/libc/port mk pool.acid Then try it. --upas-krelwrbwoxcjmpldlfvboiufrn-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 21 11:35:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 21 11:35:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25113 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Feb 2003 11:35:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25109 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 11:35:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 11:35:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C0C6C19A31; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:35:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A72241998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:34:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp ([61.211.130.19]) by ar; Fri Feb 21 11:34:37 JST 2003 Subject: Re: [9fans] fossil/flfmt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <04DB4B3A-4545-11D7-98CD-000393A941BC@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:34:36 +0900 >I have fixed flfmt and the documentation. Thanks, I have confirmed. Kenji Arisawa From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 21 11:38:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 21 11:38:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25284 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Feb 2003 11:38:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25280 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 11:38:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 11:38:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F06C619A33; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:38:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7A2B319A19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:37:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Feb 20 21:37:04 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Thu Feb 20 21:37:01 EST 2003 Message-ID: <724f71d54fac61e0a04f73fcf0691bf8@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] output of ps(1) memory usage From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:37:00 -0500 The picture can be useful sometimes, but more useful is the text output (drop the -b flag), which will give you acid commands to list the places where the leaked blocks were allocated. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 21 11:43:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 21 11:43:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25548 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Feb 2003 11:43:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25543 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 11:43:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 11:43:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0F4AB19A2F; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:43:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9772F1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:42:23 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 11879 invoked by uid 991); 21 Feb 2003 02:42:23 -0000 Message-ID: <20030221024223.11878.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] output of ps(1) memory usage In-Reply-To: Message from YAMANASHI Takeshi of "Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:27:52 +0900." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:42:23 -0500 | Is there an easy way to determine the amount of memory | really inuse (or physically mapped?) within a process? You could look at the map file. Maybe ps could show more of that information, to have a nicer interface. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 21 11:44:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 21 11:44:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25589 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Feb 2003 11:44:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25584 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 11:44:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 11:44:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2A023199F2; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:44:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2A26419A31 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:43:44 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [9fans] output of ps(1) memory usage From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:43:42 -0500 > Is there an easy way to determine the amount of memory > really inuse (or physically mapped?) within a process? cat /proc//segment. The first number is the range, the second is the reference count. The ref will help you figure out how many other procs are using the segment. For example: presotto@presto-home% ps|grep rio presotto 14 0:00 0:03 752K Rendez rio presotto 113 0:00 0:00 752K Pread rio presotto 114 0:00 0:00 752K Pread rio presotto 115 0:00 0:00 752K Rendez rio presotto 116 0:00 0:00 752K Pread rio presotto 117 0:00 0:00 752K Pread rio presotto 177 0:00 0:00 752K Await rio presotto@presto-home% cat /proc/113/segment Stack 7efff000 7ffff000 1 Text R 00001000 0002d000 7 Data 0002d000 00036000 7 Bss 00036000 000bd000 7 There are 7 rio's... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 21 12:08:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 21 12:08:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26536 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Feb 2003 12:08:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26523 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 12:08:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 12:08:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9C21419A2F; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 22:08:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D27319A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 22:07:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] output of ps(1) memory usage From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-qfjwwvujygpttswnhnmtdebjyo" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 12:09:03 +0900 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-qfjwwvujygpttswnhnmtdebjyo Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Yeah! I found huge dark blue region under the page window. ☺ Kenji --upas-qfjwwvujygpttswnhnmtdebjyo Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp ([192.168.1.3]) by diabase; Fri Feb 21 11:46:30 JST 2003 Received: from elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.103.2]) by granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17682 for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:37:06 +0900 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (8.9.3/3.7W-02121711) with ESMTP id LAA18217 for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:38:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F06C619A33; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:38:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7A2B319A19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:37:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Feb 20 21:37:04 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Thu Feb 20 21:37:01 EST 2003 Message-ID: <724f71d54fac61e0a04f73fcf0691bf8@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] output of ps(1) memory usage From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:37:00 -0500 The picture can be useful sometimes, but more useful is the text output (drop the -b flag), which will give you acid commands to list the places where the leaked blocks were allocated. --upas-qfjwwvujygpttswnhnmtdebjyo-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 21 14:49:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 21 14:49:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32452 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Feb 2003 14:49:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32448 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 14:49:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 14:49:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE73B19A40; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 00:49:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mx2.net.titech.ac.jp (mx2.net.titech.ac.jp [131.112.125.31]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 357DD19A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 00:48:00 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 84087 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 05:47:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vc2.net.titech.ac.jp) (131.112.125.36) by mx2.net.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 05:47:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO o.cc.titech.ac.jp) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 05:47:58 -0000 Received: from p9t by mail-o.cc.titech.ac.jp (8.11.3/1.1.10.5/20Feb97-0455PM) id h1L5lwW501452; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 14:47:58 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] output of ps(1) memory usage From: YAMANASHI Takeshi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 14:47:53 +0900 > > Is there an easy way to determine the amount of memory > > really inuse (or physically mapped?) within a process? > > cat /proc//segment. The first number is the Thank you, all. I have mistakenly thought that the output of ps/segment concerns about the virtual memory, not physically mapped. Now that I understand the ps/segment output correctly, I revise my question as follows: Is there a way to determine the amount of swapped pages of a process? I just want to complete the equation, virutal memory usage of a process = swapped or not paged in + physically mapped -- YAMANASHI Takeshi From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 21 14:56:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 21 14:56:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32703 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Feb 2003 14:56:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32699 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 14:56:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 14:56:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 958CE19A31; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 00:56:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 87EE419A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 00:55:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Feb 21 00:55:52 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Fri Feb 21 00:55:49 EST 2003 Message-ID: <82b065d91f919c7c32a7dc45b32ffff9@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] output of ps(1) memory usage From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 00:55:48 -0500 /proc/pid/segment shows you virtual memory allocation, not physical. There is no way to find out which pages in a process are swapped and which are not at a per-page granularity. Of course, if /dev/swap tells you nothing is swapped out, then nothing is swapped out. It is also hard to tell what is not yet paged in. You could walk around in the kernel's page tables, but that's not portable and not very clean. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 21 15:09:55 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 21 15:09:55 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 818 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Feb 2003 15:09:53 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 807 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 15:09:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 15:09:50 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5017719A40; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 01:09:41 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from garlic.apnic.net (garlic.apnic.net [202.12.29.224]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 451F519A0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 01:08:36 -0500 (EST) Received: (from ggm@localhost) by garlic.apnic.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h1L68TI15363; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:08:29 +1000 (EST) From: George Michaelson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: <20030221160829.1b2eca90.ggm@apnic.net> In-Reply-To: <82b065d91f919c7c32a7dc45b32ffff9@plan9.bell-labs.com> References: <82b065d91f919c7c32a7dc45b32ffff9@plan9.bell-labs.com> Organization: APNIC Pty Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.10claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--netbsdelf) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] alg to make a good colour palette for a graph Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:08:29 +1000 totally non Plan9 question but people here oftentimes have nice simple algs which work well across lots of contexts. I need to make a set of visually distinctive colours in rgb space such that I can feed the rgb values into a tool (RRD) to graph with. Microsloth picks colours for you. a very nasty muted set. Gnuplot repeats the same palette of colours over and over again. I read in the RRD list of a technique to map the as equidistant points distributed in HSV space, and then use them. But, no code. N varies. Usually its less than 15. In those cases I think I can use an Acronymic 'Richard Of York Gave Battle In Vain' selection. But for one case I am looking at, I need 250+ reasonably distinctive colours. I thought about just taking a 256colourmap, and randomizing it, and using the entire palette that way. It should mean no two adjacent colours are very alike which is fine for a stacked line chart. Is there something simple and nice, which I can do in AWK? Something which will go into the ff-space and pick good colour combos? The obvious things I come up with make gray (for a stunningly obvious reason) It would be super nice to have up to 25 or 30 colours which are all mutually equi-distant in some sense. clues? I've tried web browsing. its phenominal how few things seem remotely relevant from keyword searches using colourspace, colourmap, palette, graph. -George From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 21 15:40:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 21 15:40:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1876 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Feb 2003 15:40:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1872 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 15:40:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 15:40:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2472D19A60; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 01:40:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 74B7119A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 01:39:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <85f83229e10e554410d6d6922cbfb3c0@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Eric Grosse To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] alg to make a good colour palette for a graph In-Reply-To: <20030221160829.1b2eca90.ggm@apnic.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 01:39:04 -0500 It depends on the monitor. Take a look at http://plan9.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/doc/85/4-01.ps.gz That solution (which used l2 optimization over a psychophysical color difference metric) gave very good results, but is way too complicated for awk. You can run the computation once, build a decent spline approximation to the hue curve, and use awk to interpolate in the table, given . That's the approach of http://plan9.bell-labs.com/netlib/graphics/rainbow.c.gz Eric From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 21 15:58:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 21 15:58:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2478 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Feb 2003 15:58:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2474 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 15:58:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 15:58:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 07B0819A63; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 01:58:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from garlic.apnic.net (garlic.apnic.net [202.12.29.224]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6E4CD19A66 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 01:57:11 -0500 (EST) Received: (from ggm@localhost) by garlic.apnic.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h1L6v5K29423; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:57:05 +1000 (EST) From: George Michaelson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: ehg@lucent.com Subject: Re: [9fans] alg to make a good colour palette for a graph Message-Id: <20030221165705.62bc1ea9.ggm@apnic.net> In-Reply-To: <85f83229e10e554410d6d6922cbfb3c0@plan9.bell-labs.com> References: <20030221160829.1b2eca90.ggm@apnic.net> <85f83229e10e554410d6d6922cbfb3c0@plan9.bell-labs.com> Organization: APNIC Pty Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.10claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--netbsdelf) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:57:05 +1000 Many, many thanks. perfecto! -George From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 21 16:10:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 21 16:10:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2896 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Feb 2003 16:10:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2892 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 16:10:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 16:10:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A550E19A68; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 02:10:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mx2.net.titech.ac.jp (mx2.net.titech.ac.jp [131.112.125.31]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3FBD019A67 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 02:09:44 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 92506 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 07:09:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vc2.net.titech.ac.jp) (131.112.125.36) by mx2.net.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 07:09:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO o.cc.titech.ac.jp) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 07:09:43 -0000 Received: from p9t by mail-o.cc.titech.ac.jp (8.11.3/1.1.10.5/20Feb97-0455PM) id h1L79gW505020; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:09:42 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] output of ps(1) memory usage From: YAMANASHI Takeshi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:09:37 +0900 > /proc/pid/segment shows you virtual memory allocation, > not physical. I still had mistaken without your explanation. Segment gives virtual memory information and `ps' physical. I feel fine now. -- YAMANASHI Takeshi From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 21 16:18:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 21 16:18:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3951 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Feb 2003 16:18:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3947 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 16:18:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 16:18:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B341F19A68; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 02:18:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9CFEA19A40 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 02:17:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8ec41dc38f20ad783b0de87596435ab2@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:18:51 +0900 As I got tired of debugging, I travelled into internet, and found Lindows Mobile PC, which may be nice also to Plan 9. However, I cann't figure it out whether it has 3 button mouse pad. It looks like so... 12.1" 1024x768 TFT VIA C3 933 MHz Processor, <--- what's that? VIA VT8606(Twister-T) + VT82C686B chipset, Savage 4 AGP (which Russ's favurite chip?), Realtek 10/100 LAN chip, 20GB ATA HDD Lindows3.0 OS <---- what's it? 10.43x8.66x0.91" AND 2.9lbs (1.6kg)! any opinion? Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 21 16:37:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 21 16:37:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4730 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Feb 2003 16:37:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4726 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 16:37:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 16:37:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 553FB19A69; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 02:37:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C22CC19A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 02:36:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h1L7ahZu012104 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 20 Feb 2003 23:36:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <29e8ba954a1cd5ac7b8a9f509008e9da@centurytel.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] alg to make a good colour palette for a graph From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: <20030221160829.1b2eca90.ggm@apnic.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 23:46:54 -0800 > totally non Plan9 question but people here oftentimes have nice simple algs > which work well across lots of contexts. I agree. There is so much to be learned from people on this list, just by observing/listening in. On a somewhat related note, I wanted to share my pick for a new book of algorithms; It is called "Hacker's Delight" by Henry S. Warren Jr. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 21 17:36:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 21 17:36:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6740 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Feb 2003 17:36:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6735 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 17:36:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 17:36:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 297D619A65; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 03:36:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ED95C19A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 03:35:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h1L8ZWZu001738 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 00:35:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1f43f1495968b54970bbde0d61f6fd60@centurytel.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Skip Tavakkolian" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] The cheez whiz, again (page not displaying things!) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 00:45:43 -0800 Anybody else has a problem with the "page" display being blank? Seems to be due to the last update I pulled, over the past day or two. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 21 17:57:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 21 17:57:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7356 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Feb 2003 17:57:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7352 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 17:57:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 17:57:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0B95B19A67; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 03:57:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from littlegreenmen.armory.com (littlegreenmen.armory.com [192.122.209.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B6D3B19A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 03:56:21 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 24667 invoked by uid 713); 21 Feb 2003 08:56:21 -0000 From: Phil White To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20030221085621.GB2899@littlegreenmen.armory.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Subject: [9fans] Some random questions Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 00:56:21 -0800 1) Is there an equivalent of su? We'd like to have a p9 term up at the next Armory party, but we don't want people to have to reboot each time they want to login under their own username. 2) Is there a way to stop ssh from remembering passwords? We've thought about writing a script to delete the keys but that's an obvious kludge. Feel free to tell me to RTFM followed by the address of the appropriate information. -Phil/CERisE From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 21 19:08:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 21 19:08:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9382 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Feb 2003 19:08:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9378 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 19:08:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 19:08:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9F6D019A65; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 05:08:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from work (unknown [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 64F67199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 05:07:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: "Steve Simon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] alg to make a good colour palette for a graph In-Reply-To: <3106177662@snellwilcox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:03:07 0000 Hi, I picked up somecode from Graphics gems to do this, it was good enough for me though I wouldn't vouch the optimal-ness of its solution. The file is colorquant.c, I cannot find which volume of gems its from but I could send you the code if you like. -Steve From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 21 19:24:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 21 19:24:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9712 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Feb 2003 19:24:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9705 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 19:24:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 19:24:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A5D7719A6D; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 05:24:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from WILL551 (x98A3A1B2.pix.aol.com [152.163.161.178]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7018619A65 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 05:23:41 -0500 (EST) From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="CSmtpMsgPart123X456_000_2312A67E" Message-Id: <20030221102341.7018619A65@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] Re: Here is that sample Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:23:29 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format --CSmtpMsgPart123X456_000_2312A67E Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Attached file: --CSmtpMsgPart123X456_000_2312A67E-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 21 20:13:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 21 20:13:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10728 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Feb 2003 20:13:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10724 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 20:13:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 20:13:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 36A2419A65; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 06:13:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from halt-in.cisco.com (halt-in.cisco.com [171.70.144.185]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 03B21199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 06:12:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from cisco.com (144.254.74.60) by halt-in.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 Feb 2003 03:13:12 -0800 Received: from cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1LBBI4T004254 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 12:11:18 +0100 (MET) Received: (from dfawcus@localhost) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) id LAA29297 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:12:55 GMT From: Derek Fawcus To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop Message-ID: <20030221111255.C26830@edinburgh.cisco.com> References: <8ec41dc38f20ad783b0de87596435ab2@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <8ec41dc38f20ad783b0de87596435ab2@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp>; from okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp on Fri, Feb 21, 2003 at 04:18:51PM +0900 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:12:55 +0000 On Fri, Feb 21, 2003 at 04:18:51PM +0900, okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote: > As I got tired of debugging, I travelled into internet, and found > Lindows Mobile PC, which may be nice also to Plan 9. > However, I cann't figure it out whether it has 3 button mouse pad. > It looks like so... > 12.1" 1024x768 TFT > VIA C3 933 MHz Processor, <--- what's that? An x86 compatible processor made by VIA. It has poor FPU performance but reasonable integer performance. It's basically an i686 but with a semi implemented CMOV instruction. > VIA VT8606(Twister-T) + VT82C686B chipset, > Savage 4 AGP (which Russ's favurite chip?), > Realtek 10/100 LAN chip, > 20GB ATA HDD > Lindows3.0 OS <---- what's it? A Linux derived OS > 10.43x8.66x0.91" AND 2.9lbs (1.6kg)! > > any opinion? well if I was in the market for a laptop, I might well buy one... however, what I'd really like is a light enougth pad computer - all that I've seen so far are too heavy. DF From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 21 22:02:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 21 22:02:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12427 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Feb 2003 22:02:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12423 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 22:02:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 22:02:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C47B919A6F; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 08:02:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 018B019A67 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 08:01:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h1LCu2w00670 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 06:56:02 -0600 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <29e8ba954a1cd5ac7b8a9f509008e9da@centurytel.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Re: alg to make a good colour palette for a graph Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 06:56:02 -0600 (CST) On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, Skip Tavakkolian wrote: > On a somewhat related note, I wanted to share my pick for a new > book of algorithms; It is called "Hacker's Delight" by Henry S. > Warren Jr. I agree, I got it a couple of months ago and have enjoyed it. Is most useful for those working in assembly and compilers but it's also just a good read (if you like didling bits ;). -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 21 22:05:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 21 22:05:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12446 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Feb 2003 22:05:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12442 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 22:05:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 22:05:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8A3CC19A68; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 08:05:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ABC1219A67 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 08:04:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h1LCwtU00678 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 06:58:56 -0600 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Re: alg to make a good colour palette for a graph Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 06:58:55 -0600 (CST) On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Steve Simon wrote: > I picked up somecode from Graphics gems to do this, > it was good enough for me though I wouldn't vouch > the optimal-ness of its solution. > > The file is colorquant.c, I cannot find which volume of > gems its from but I could send you the code if you like. Google is your friend, all the code from all five volumes is available on the web at the Graphics Gem homesite, which by the way will take you to their e-zine on graphics related topics. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 22 00:01:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 22 00:01:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14051 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Feb 2003 00:01:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14047 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2003 00:01:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Feb 2003 00:01:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 68E7619A67; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:01:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6627219A68 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:00:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Feb 21 10:00:18 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Fri Feb 21 10:00:15 EST 2003 Message-ID: <7cc56d72105c4994f31c2f46e68b24b5@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Some random questions From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030221085621.GB2899@littlegreenmen.armory.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:00:13 -0500 > 1) Is there an equivalent of su? We'd like to have a p9 > term up at the next Armory party, but we don't want > people to have to reboot each time they want to login > under their own username. Auth/login might do some of what you want. > 2) Is there a way to stop ssh from remembering passwords? > We've thought about writing a script to delete the keys > but that's an obvious kludge. You could use this: #!/bin/rc rfork n auth/factotum exec /$cputype/bin/ssh $* Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 22 00:06:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 22 00:06:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14111 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Feb 2003 00:06:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14107 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2003 00:06:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Feb 2003 00:06:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2240D19A6E; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:06:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 91EEA19A73 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:05:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Feb 21 10:05:27 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Fri Feb 21 10:05:24 EST 2003 Message-ID: <0fbd61d6696b8ffc2b68af682e0e1420@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <8ec41dc38f20ad783b0de87596435ab2@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:05:23 -0500 Jmk pointed this one out to me yesterday. It looks good. The screen is a little small, and I wish they would tell you something about battery life. We think we support all the hardware. The big picture made me think it was a 3-button touchpad. Lindows is Linux with a Windows emulator so that it can run Windows applications. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 22 00:07:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 22 00:07:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14130 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Feb 2003 00:07:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14126 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2003 00:07:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Feb 2003 00:07:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 39C9519A73; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:07:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A0D1F19A73 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:06:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Feb 21 10:06:22 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Fri Feb 21 10:06:19 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] output of ps(1) memory usage From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:06:18 -0500 > I still had mistaken without your explanation. > Segment gives virtual memory information and `ps' physical. > I feel fine now. Everything gives virtual memory information. Nothing gives physical memory information, except /dev/swap which only gives you totals. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 22 00:43:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 22 00:43:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14495 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Feb 2003 00:43:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14491 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2003 00:43:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Feb 2003 00:43:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E0E1119A78; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:43:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from edoras.nas.com (edoras.nas.com [206.63.100.8]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 55C5A19A68 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:42:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from nas.com (unknown [164.116.190.46]) by edoras.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 877B9EB5D1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 07:42:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3E5648C9.6010207@nas.com> From: Jack Johnson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.2a) Gecko/20020910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, es MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop References: <8ec41dc38f20ad783b0de87596435ab2@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 07:42:01 -0800 okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote: > As I got tired of debugging, I travelled into internet, and found > Lindows Mobile PC, which may be nice also to Plan 9. http://info.lindows.com/mobilepc/mobilepc.htm for anyone else curious. > VIA C3 933 MHz Processor, <--- what's that? > > any opinion? The VIA C3 is a Pentium-compatible processor, typically on par with a PII about half it's speed, give or take. They tend to be popular with the quiet PC crowd (and some of the blade server people) because they can be run fanless. They're extremely low power processors (10W consumption for the 1GHz C3) so there's some potential for battery life to be OK, though the processor usually isn't the largest power draw in a laptop (unless you have a P4m, which can *dissipate* up to 8W of power while in sleep mode and 35W number crunching -- though potentially with 4x the performance). For more performance info: http://www17.tomshardware.com/cpu/20020605/index.html http://www.vanshardware.com/articles/2001/september/010921_Transmeta_v_C3/010921_Transmeta_v_C3.htm -Jack From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 22 01:04:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 22 01:04:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14796 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Feb 2003 01:04:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14792 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2003 01:04:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Feb 2003 01:04:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0C28719A7B; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:04:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from hamnavoe (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2470F19A68 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:03:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <757060dfdda1b526497f4ed627e4f045@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop From: Richard Miller In-Reply-To: <3E5648C9.6010207@nas.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:03:40 0000 >> VIA C3 933 MHz Processor, <--- what's that? >> >> any opinion? > > The VIA C3 is a Pentium-compatible processor, typically on par with a > PII about half it's speed, give or take. They tend to be popular with > the quiet PC crowd (and some of the blade server people) because they > can be run fanless. I'm running Plan 9 on one of these (800mhz version, fanless). No complaints. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 22 01:08:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 22 01:08:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14854 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Feb 2003 01:08:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14850 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2003 01:08:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Feb 2003 01:08:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9A37D19A82; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:08:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nigel.9fs.org (cotswold.demon.co.uk [194.222.75.186]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2F92D19A75 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:07:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2d321185dfe05a8b2909a73d36292584@9fs.org> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop From: nigel@9fs.org In-Reply-To: <757060dfdda1b526497f4ed627e4f045@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-pkvvrxhgehsijhxojspphpdyxd" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:09:36 0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-pkvvrxhgehsijhxojspphpdyxd Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Beware the Via C3 Eden ITX motherboard. Neither the ethernet, vga, or audio are supported. I have (partial) solutions. --upas-pkvvrxhgehsijhxojspphpdyxd Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from 9fs.org ([192.168.100.103]) by 9fs.org; Fri Feb 21 16:06:46 GMT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by 9fs.org; Fri Feb 21 16:06:45 GMT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2FE1B19A76; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:04:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from hamnavoe (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2470F19A68 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:03:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <757060dfdda1b526497f4ed627e4f045@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop From: Richard Miller In-Reply-To: <3E5648C9.6010207@nas.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:03:40 0000 >> VIA C3 933 MHz Processor, <--- what's that? >> >> any opinion? > > The VIA C3 is a Pentium-compatible processor, typically on par with a > PII about half it's speed, give or take. They tend to be popular with > the quiet PC crowd (and some of the blade server people) because they > can be run fanless. I'm running Plan 9 on one of these (800mhz version, fanless). No complaints. --upas-pkvvrxhgehsijhxojspphpdyxd-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 22 01:10:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 22 01:10:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14893 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Feb 2003 01:10:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14889 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2003 01:10:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Feb 2003 01:10:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B4B2619A7D; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:10:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7F71119A75 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:09:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <757060dfdda1b526497f4ed627e4f045@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 17:08:54 +0100 > I'm running Plan 9 on one of these (800mhz version, fanless). > No complaints. How much time can you stay up using the battery? (Or is your box a regular PC and not a mobile thing). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 22 01:46:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 22 01:46:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15276 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Feb 2003 01:46:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15272 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2003 01:46:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Feb 2003 01:46:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9068219A7B; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:46:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from edoras.nas.com (edoras.nas.com [206.63.100.8]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 22F9A19A67 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:45:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from nas.com (unknown [164.116.190.46]) by edoras.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94190EB78B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 08:45:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3E5657BC.7050209@nas.com> From: Jack Johnson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.2a) Gecko/20020910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, es MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop References: <2d321185dfe05a8b2909a73d36292584@9fs.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 08:45:48 -0800 nigel@9fs.org wrote: > Beware the Via C3 Eden ITX motherboard. Neither the ethernet, > vga, or audio are supported. That would be the same motherboard in the Walmart PCs and their ilk. The Lindows/eNote Mobile PCs seem to use (slightly?) different chipsets. There is also a new series of EPIA motherboards coming out (EPIA-M, I think) with a revised chipset and features (DDR, FireWire, etc), that might be more successful. http://www.viavpsd.com/product/epia_m_spec.jsp?motherboardId=81 -Jack P.S. For what it's worth, I was thinking about this interview with Dennis http://unix.se/article/articleview/950/1/24 and his comments about just using NT and drawterm, and realized that he's got a good point, if you have more than one box and it has Ethernet support, you're really home free. A drawterm and standalone CPU server with either kfs or fossil and life isn't all that bad. With it's lone spare PCI slot, a $200 Walmart PC and a $20 supported NIC isn't awful to do some experimentation. I'm thinking of picking up one of those $20 Sun IPX I saw last weekend and just running drawterm, vnc and rdesktop indefinitely. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 22 01:47:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 22 01:47:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15286 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Feb 2003 01:47:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15282 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2003 01:47:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Feb 2003 01:47:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CD3E119A85; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:47:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 88A5D19A78 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:46:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Feb 21 11:46:13 EST 2003 Received: from 18.24.6.202 ([18.24.6.202]) by plan9; Fri Feb 21 11:46:10 EST 2003 Message-ID: <52070b90150ce81b0435d11881f9b429@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <757060dfdda1b526497f4ed627e4f045@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:46:08 -0500 > I'm running Plan 9 on one of these (800mhz version, fanless). > No complaints. is it a prepackaged thing? where? i would love to have a fanless machine. then again, the rest of my office would still make plenty of noise. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 22 01:51:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 22 01:51:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15366 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Feb 2003 01:51:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15362 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2003 01:51:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Feb 2003 01:51:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E1C8719A8C; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:51:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 30F1F19A68 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:50:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <42018896f36387ba183cec54b8037f78@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop In-Reply-To: <52070b90150ce81b0435d11881f9b429@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:50:52 -0500 On Fri Feb 21 11:47:21 EST 2003, rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > > I'm running Plan 9 on one of these (800mhz version, fanless). > > No complaints. > > is it a prepackaged thing? where? i would love to have > a fanless machine. then again, the rest of my office > would still make plenty of noise. See www.mini-itx.com for some ideas. The power is so low that you can run many of these with a wall-wart. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 22 01:59:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 22 01:59:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15441 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Feb 2003 01:59:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15437 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2003 01:59:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Feb 2003 01:59:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 23E2419A89; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:59:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from hamnavoe (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 944F519A67 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:58:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop From: Richard Miller In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:58:40 0000 > How much time can you stay up using the battery? (Or is your box > a regular PC and not a mobile thing). It's non-mobile. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 22 03:00:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 22 03:00:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15923 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Feb 2003 03:00:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15919 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2003 03:00:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Feb 2003 03:00:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 45BE219A89; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 13:00:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8142C19A78 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 12:59:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] usb audio Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 18:02:16 0000 i just got my new xitel hifi-link (on presotto's recommendation), and hacked madplay so that it sets the speed and number of channels appropriately to the mp3 file. only problem is that doing this when the /dev/audio is already open reliably crashes the kernel. (first i get a write error from usbaudio: writing ep 4 1 w 4 44100 to #U/usb0/1/ctl: permission denied, then the kernel panics with "fault: xxx") i've now fixed it so it closes /dev/audio before writing to audioctl and then reopens it, but it doesn't seem like this should be necessary. the other thing is i'd really like usbaudio to attach to the correct usb port automatically: is there enough information provided by the usb device to automatically identify an audio device (currently i look at the output of usbd -v, or have a look in /dev/usb0)? those issues aside, it works very nicely, thanks... i can finally play mp3 files. (mind you, i've only got two so far!) i guess the next step is a little audio plumbing client that knows how to stop one stream and start another when a new plumbing request comes in; then the world is my jukebox. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 22 03:03:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 22 03:03:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15975 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Feb 2003 03:03:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15971 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2003 03:03:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Feb 2003 03:03:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7072C19A68; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 13:03:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E659E19A67 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 13:02:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Feb 21 13:02:34 EST 2003 Received: from 18.24.6.202 ([18.24.6.202]) by plan9; Fri Feb 21 13:02:31 EST 2003 Message-ID: <40d186b667ae11ba055234b6316a1a52@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] usb audio From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-dotlfejaosiuhduwzfomzgebuz" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 13:02:29 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-dotlfejaosiuhduwzfomzgebuz Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit save a kernel stack trace or run ktrace -i. i've been trying to implicate devusb in that panic for many months. if you can reproduce it, please do so! russ --upas-dotlfejaosiuhduwzfomzgebuz Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Feb 21 13:00:29 EST 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Fri Feb 21 13:00:26 EST 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0B02C19A87; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 13:00:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8142C19A78 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 12:59:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] usb audio Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 18:02:16 0000 i just got my new xitel hifi-link (on presotto's recommendation), and hacked madplay so that it sets the speed and number of channels appropriately to the mp3 file. only problem is that doing this when the /dev/audio is already open reliably crashes the kernel. (first i get a write error from usbaudio: writing ep 4 1 w 4 44100 to #U/usb0/1/ctl: permission denied, then the kernel panics with "fault: xxx") i've now fixed it so it closes /dev/audio before writing to audioctl and then reopens it, but it doesn't seem like this should be necessary. the other thing is i'd really like usbaudio to attach to the correct usb port automatically: is there enough information provided by the usb device to automatically identify an audio device (currently i look at the output of usbd -v, or have a look in /dev/usb0)? those issues aside, it works very nicely, thanks... i can finally play mp3 files. (mind you, i've only got two so far!) i guess the next step is a little audio plumbing client that knows how to stop one stream and start another when a new plumbing request comes in; then the world is my jukebox. --upas-dotlfejaosiuhduwzfomzgebuz-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 22 03:28:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 22 03:28:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16180 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Feb 2003 03:28:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16176 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2003 03:28:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Feb 2003 03:28:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 81DE719A89; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 13:28:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 555EF19A67 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 13:27:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Feb 21 13:27:24 EST 2003 Received: from 18.24.6.202 ([18.24.6.202]) by plan9; Fri Feb 21 13:27:22 EST 2003 Message-ID: <53c62f323b11b99134935ce299e31351@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The cheez whiz, again (page not displaying things!) From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <1f43f1495968b54970bbde0d61f6fd60@centurytel.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 13:27:20 -0500 > Anybody else has a problem with the "page" display being blank? > Seems to be due to the last update I pulled, over the past day or two. Is this in drawterm? I changed page to use the new extended form of the draw operator to do the right thing when panning, but then I realized it would not work for drawterm users so I backed it out. This binary: --rwxrwxr-x M 8 rsc sys 215429 Feb 19 09:39 /386/bin/page should have the correction. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 22 03:34:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 22 03:34:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16237 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Feb 2003 03:34:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16233 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2003 03:34:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Feb 2003 03:34:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9249819A8B; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 13:34:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from aquamar.escet.urjc.es (plan9.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.205]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A5E9919A8D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 13:33:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4721077777f55dd772a1b3e506b3b66f@plan9.escet.urjc.es> From: Fco.J.Ballesteros To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] usb audio In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 19:33:47 +0100 I redirect the audio using redirfs. Not a plumber, but can be used for that. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 22 03:43:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 22 03:43:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16296 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Feb 2003 03:43:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16292 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2003 03:43:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Feb 2003 03:43:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 94ABC19A8E; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 13:43:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 69C5319A68 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 13:42:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h1LIglng002915 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:42:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <85924ebb7861150813446ece90760fe3@centurytel.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The cheez whiz, again (page not displaying things!) From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: <53c62f323b11b99134935ce299e31351@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:52:56 -0800 > Is this in drawterm? > > I changed page to use the new extended form of the draw > operator to do the right thing when panning, but then I realized > it would not work for drawterm users so I backed it out. > This binary: > > --rwxrwxr-x M 8 rsc sys 215429 Feb 19 09:39 /386/bin/page > > should have the correction. Yes. I checked sources and the only diff for page from a couple of days ago was in page.h, which explained the problem. I am doing a pull now. thx. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 22 03:44:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 22 03:44:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16303 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Feb 2003 03:44:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16299 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2003 03:44:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Feb 2003 03:44:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6662619A97; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 13:44:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id BA8F519A68 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 13:43:09 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 15944 invoked by uid 991); 21 Feb 2003 18:43:09 -0000 Message-ID: <20030221184309.15943.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] usb audio In-Reply-To: Message from rog@vitanuova.com of "Fri, 21 Feb 2003 18:02:16." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 13:43:09 -0500 | i guess the next step is a little audio plumbing client that knows how | to stop one stream and start another when a new plumbing request comes | in; then the world is my jukebox. You also want a way to mix streams. Most often, two writes to an audio device should generate the two sounds a the same time, right? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 22 03:54:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 22 03:54:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16365 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Feb 2003 03:54:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16361 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2003 03:54:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Feb 2003 03:54:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D343D19A90; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 13:54:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 049F319A78 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 13:53:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <9bdd0fa6e9dc2540028d852ec857c4f7@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] usb audio From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 18:55:40 0000 i hadn't found ktrace -i before... good for saving lots of typing! i've now rebooted four times, and it crashed twice at /sys/src/9/pc/usbuhci.c:/panic\("packet once with no kernel stack trace, and once with "fault: 0x4010" from this line in isoio(): td->flags &= ~IsoClean; hope this helps! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 22 04:03:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 22 04:03:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16471 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Feb 2003 04:03:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16467 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2003 04:03:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Feb 2003 04:03:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4776319A95; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 14:03:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B9B8B19A82 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 14:02:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h1LJ1mt03544 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 14:01:49 -0500 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Acme win tip Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 14:01:48 -0500 (EST) Adding fn cd { builtin cd $*; awd } to lib/profile seems to make Acme's win more useful. You can walk around the filesystem and when you get to the file you want, you right click on it in the window. Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 22 04:05:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 22 04:05:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16485 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Feb 2003 04:05:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16481 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2003 04:05:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Feb 2003 04:05:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3DAC719A93; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 14:05:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ADF6F19A78 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 14:04:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h1LJ3Wt03553 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 14:03:33 -0500 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Acme win tip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 14:03:32 -0500 (EST) Hmm. Not supposed to go to the list. My mistake. Sam On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Sam wrote: > Adding > fn cd { builtin cd $*; awd } > > to lib/profile seems to make Acme's > win more useful. You can walk around > the filesystem and when you get to > the file you want, you right click > on it in the window. > > Sam > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 22 07:44:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 22 07:44:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18507 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Feb 2003 07:44:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18503 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2003 07:44:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Feb 2003 07:44:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 677DA19A88; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 17:44:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail3.panix.com (mail3.panix.com [166.84.1.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B3E9D19A68 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 17:43:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from panix1.panix.com (panix1.panix.com [166.84.1.1]) by mail3.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92B2F98598 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 17:43:30 -0500 (EST) Received: (from markp@localhost) by panix1.panix.com (8.11.6/8.8.8/PanixN1.0) id h1LMhUC26484 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 17:43:30 -0500 (EST) From: Message-Id: <200302212243.h1LMhUC26484@panix1.panix.com> X-Mailer: mailx (AT&T/BSD) 9.8 2001-04-01 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] xraven.com - This is the site Mark Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 17:43:30 -0500 (EST) | Damnit Mark! I'm _SICK_ of your friends mailing the list! Give them your | offline email address and leave it at that. For crying out loud, you don't | need all your mail to funnel through here! I do apologize for Greg; he's a nice enough fellow, but not the sharpest knife in the drawer sometimes. I'll have a word with him later tonight. :) --markp From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 22 20:27:56 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 22 20:27:56 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30762 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Feb 2003 20:27:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30758 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2003 20:27:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Feb 2003 20:27:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E431719A7D; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 06:27:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from hamnavoe (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 31F8819A7A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 06:26:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <16129fbb8d76a34399815277de2cdba9@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop From: Richard Miller In-Reply-To: <52070b90150ce81b0435d11881f9b429@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 11:26:24 0000 > is it a prepackaged thing? where? Self-build with BN800E motherboard and slim case from http://www.linden-computech.com/booksizepclist.htm But you should be able to plug a fanless C3 into any socket370 motherboard. > i would love to have > a fanless machine. then again, the rest of my office > would still make plenty of noise. There's still a power supply fan, but given the low power requirements of the C3 you should be able to fit an external PSU like the one on www.mini-itx.com Note that for vga support with the VIA PL133 chipset, you need to add device id 0x8A25 (ProSavage) to aux/vga and kernel. I'll send a boddle to 9trouble. -- Richard From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 22 20:48:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 22 20:48:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30972 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Feb 2003 20:48:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30968 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2003 20:48:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Feb 2003 20:48:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8B4C419A91; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 06:48:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from iname.com (unknown [211.138.91.21]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id BFAE619A87 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 06:47:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000810e2dc48$bcd12347$73647545@kajsk.sx> From: "patterson craig" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00D7_38E47C6E.B8138B01" X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal Subject: [9fans] are you thinking of setting up a casino on the Net? 3515qQVr1-775vD-14 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 21:30:04 -1000 ------=_NextPart_000_00D7_38E47C6E.B8138B01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MzAgRGF5IFNhdGlzZmFjdGlvbiBHdWFyYW50ZWVkDQoNCkJ1aWxkIHlvdXIg b3duIEludGVybmV0IGNhc2lubyBpbiBqdXN0IDEwIG1pbnV0ZXM6DQoNCi0g Q2FzaW5vIHNpdGUgaXMgZnVsbHkgY3VzdG9taXphYmxlDQotIE5vIGV4cGVy aWVuY2Ugb3IgcHJvZ3JhbW1pbmcgcmVxdWlyZWQuDQotIFBvaW50LWFuZC1j bGljayBzZXR1cCAoMTAwJSB3ZWIgZHJpdmVuKQ0KLSBHYW1lcyBjYW4gYmUg cGxheWVkIG9ubGluZSBvciB3aXRoIHNvZnR3YXJlIGRvd25sb2FkDQotIFNw b3J0c2Jvb2sgc2VjdGlvbiBpbmNsdWRlZA0KLSBFYXJuIDMwJSBvZiBhbGwg cmV2ZW51ZXMgKG5vIGhpZGRlbiBmZWVzKQ0KLSBGdWxseSBsaWNlbnNlZCBv ZmZzaG9yZQ0KDQpXZSBoYXZlIHRoZSBtb3N0IGFkdmFuY2VkIGNhc2lubyBi dWlsZGVyIHRvb2wgb24gdGhlIE5ldCwgYWxsb3dpbmcgeW91IHRvIGJ1aWxk IGEgZnVsbHkgZnVuY3Rpb25hbCwgc3RhdGUtb2YtdGhlLWFydCwgdHVybi1r ZXkgb25saW5lIGNhc2lubyBpbiBqdXN0IG1pbnV0ZXMuICAgVGhlIHF1YWxp dHkgb2YgeW91ciBjYXNpbm8gd2Vic2l0ZSB3aWxsIGJlIHRvcCBub3RjaCBh bmQgaXMgZnVsbHkgY29tcGFyYWJsZSAoaWYgbm90IGJldHRlcikgdG8gYW55 IG9ubGluZSBjYXNpbm9zIHlvdSBzZWUgdG9kYXkuICBXZSBpbnZpdGUgeW91 IHRvIHByZXZpZXcgb3VyIGdhbWVzIGFuZCBzaXRlcyB0byBjb21wYXJlLiAg VGhlcmUgYXJlIG5vIGxpY2Vuc2Ugb3IgbW9udGhseSBmZWVzLCBqdXN0IGEg b25lLXRpbWUgc2V0dXAgZmVlIG9mIFVTJDI0OS4NCg0KQ2hlY2sgdXMgb3V0 IGF0IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cuRmFzdENhc2lub0J1aWxkZXIuY29tLiAgV2UgcHJv bWlzZSB5b3UgaGF2ZSBuZXZlciBzZWVuIGFueXRoaW5nIGxpa2UgdGhpcyBi ZWZvcmUuDQoNClNpbmNlcmVseSwNCiANCkZhc3RDYXNpbm9CdWlsZGVyDQpu b3RlOiBUaGlzIG9mZmVyIGlzIG51bGwgYW5kIHZvaWQgd2hlcmUgcHJvaGli aXRlZCBieSBsYXcuDQoNCiANCg0KDQpUbyBzdG9wIHJlY2VpdmluZyB0aGlz IGVtYWlsLCBjbGljazoNCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cuZW1haWxyZW1vdmFscy5jb20v Y2dpLWJpbi9nYW1lLXJlbW92ZS5jZ2kNCg0KDQogDQoxMDQ5UGNscjctMTM3 RXFSVzA4MzlqaVVrNC00MTVpYnBnNDgxNGwzNg0KNTY2MmZUR3gwLTQ1MlBT WE84OTQwVnhQRDMtMDUxWFBsMzA= ------=_NextPart_000_00D7_38E47C6E.B8138B01-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 22 23:24:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 22 23:24:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 324 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Feb 2003 23:24:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 319 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2003 23:24:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Feb 2003 23:24:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 68A5A19A9B; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 09:24:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail504.nifty.com (mail504.nifty.com [202.248.37.212]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9FB8219A8B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 09:23:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (eatkyo900071.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp [210.229.24.71]) by mail504.nifty.com with ESMTP id h1MENbt0028555 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 23:23:37 +0900 Subject: Re: [9fans] Drawterm on MacOS X; weird colormap? Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=Apple-Mail-1-1044623182 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v482) From: Moroo Jun To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: <6466c0c962e430e5fe3c7cac213346bc@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-Id: <3ACBA14B-4671-11D7-ADB6-0050E4504768@nifty.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.482) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 23:23:36 +0900 --Apple-Mail-1-1044623182 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On 2003.01.23, at 04:54, Russ Cox wrote: > It sounds like the RGB triples are being used as BGR. > You could put prints in screen-x11.c:/^initmap to > see what's going on, and then reverse the sense of > the test to get the opposite behavior. Does anybody fix this problem? Here is my quick dirty change for XDarwin 1.1 (XFree86 4.2) with OS X 10.1.5. One Question: This patch looks fine except 'sam'. When I start sam with short file, no text or pop up menu appers. If I start sam with longer than screen length text, there is no problems. --Apple-Mail-1-1044623182 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=patch Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: application/octet-stream; x-unix-mode=0644; name="patch" *** drawtermorg/screen-x11.c Tue Jul 25 05:28:15 2000 --- drawterm/screen-x11.c Sat Feb 22 22:52:20 2003 *************** *** 339,345 **** xscreenchan = RGB24; break; case 32: ! xscreenchan = CHAN4(CIgnore, 8, CRed, 8, CGreen, 8, CBlue, 8); break; } } --- 339,345 ---- xscreenchan = RGB24; break; case 32: ! xscreenchan = CHAN4(CBlue, 8, CGreen, 8, CRed, 8, CIgnore, 8); break; } } *** drawtermorg/devip-unix.c Wed May 22 14:57:07 2002 --- drawterm/devip-unix.c Fri Feb 21 22:56:49 2003 *************** *** 4,9 **** --- 4,10 ---- #include #include #include + #include #include "lib9.h" #include "sys.h" *** drawtermorg/mkfile Sat Apr 27 01:51:09 2002 --- drawterm/mkfile Fri Feb 21 22:55:13 2003 *************** *** 1,5 **** #CONF=FreeBSD ! #CONF=FreeBSD-power # MAC OSX #CONF=Irix #CONF=Linux #CONF=OSF1 --- 1,5 ---- #CONF=FreeBSD ! CONF=FreeBSD-power # MAC OSX #CONF=Irix #CONF=Linux #CONF=OSF1 *** drawtermorg/libmemdraw/draw.c Tue Jul 25 10:23:47 2000 --- drawterm/libmemdraw/draw.c Sat Feb 22 22:54:03 2003 *************** *** 1577,1582 **** --- 1577,1583 ---- _rgbatoimg(Memimage *img, ulong rgba) { ulong chan; + ulong chanfake; int d, nb; ulong v; uchar *p, r, g, b, a, m; *************** *** 1587,1593 **** b = rgba>>8; a = rgba; d = 0; ! for(chan=img->chan; chan; chan>>=8){ nb = NBITS(chan); switch(TYPE(chan)){ case CRed: --- 1588,1599 ---- b = rgba>>8; a = rgba; d = 0; ! if (img->depth == 32) { ! chanfake=XRGB32; //XDarwin ! } else { ! chanfake=img->chan; ! } ! for(chan=chanfake; chan; chan>>=8){ nb = NBITS(chan); switch(TYPE(chan)){ case CRed: --Apple-Mail-1-1044623182-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Feb 22 23:49:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Feb 22 23:49:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 634 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Feb 2003 23:49:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 630 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2003 23:49:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Feb 2003 23:49:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B20DE19A9E; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 09:49:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D243619A92 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 09:48:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sat Feb 22 09:48:30 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Sat Feb 22 09:48:28 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] ready.gov parody Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 09:48:20 -0500 the whole site is funny and completely off-topic, but this one seemed particularly appropriate for 9fans. http://www.idlewords.com/radiation.html From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 23 01:39:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 23 01:39:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1968 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Feb 2003 01:39:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1964 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2003 01:39:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Feb 2003 01:39:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B628B19AA0; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 11:39:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from wintermute.cse.psu.edu (wintermute.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.5]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3EC0A19A9D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 11:38:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from 200-158-76-242.dsl.telesp.net.br (200-158-76-242.dsl.telesp.net.br [200.158.76.242]) by wintermute.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server (Backup MX)) with SMTP id DFD7C73C99 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 11:38:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from blackplanet.com (31849 [80.96.23.153]) by post.queensu.ca (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id 7530 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 09:36:57 +0000 Received: from connecttime.net ([191.28.169.222]) by cantv.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id 22203 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 09:36:52 +0000 Message-ID: <1711931657 From: "Raven" To: " MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_6CC023E0.66C56DDE" Subject: [9fans] Naked Celebrites inside. Your 1 day FI2ee access is ready. List-Archive: Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 09:36:47 +0000 ------=_NextPart_000_0009_6CC023E0.66C56DDE Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 IA0KICA8IS0tMjU2MjUtLT48Ym9keT4NCg0KPEJPRFkgQkdDT0xPUj0jNTQ3NzlCIHRleHQ9 IiNGRkZGRkYiIGxpbms9IiNGRkZGRkYiIHZsaW5rPSIjRkZGRkZGIiBhbGluaz0iI0ZGRkZG RiI+DQo8dGFibGUgd2lkdGg9IjEwMCUiIGhlaWdodD0iMTAwJSIgYm9yZGVyPSIwIiBjZWxs cGFkZGluZz0iMCIgY2VsbHNwYWNpbmc9IjAiPg0KICA8dHI+DQogICAgPHRkIGFsaWduPSJj ZW50ZXIiIHZhbGlnbj0ibWlkZGxlIj48YSBocmVmPSJodHRwOi8vdyU3NyU3Ny5lJTc4YyU2 Y3UlNzNpJTc2ZSU2M2UlNmNlYiU3MG8lNzJuLiU2M28lNmQvYm5yLzMwNTAwNTYxMjAiIHRh cmdldD0iX2JsYW5rIiBzdHlsZT0gInRleHQtZGVjb3JhdGlvbjogbm9uZSI+IDxmb250IHNp emU9IjUiIGZhY2U9IkFyaWFsLCBIZWx2ZXRpY2EsIHNhbnMtc2VyaWYiPjxlbT48c3Ryb25n PkNPTUUgU0VFIEFMTCANCiAgICAgIFRIRSBTRVhZIFNUQVJTIEdFVCBXSUxEPC9zdHJvbmc+ PC9lbT48L2ZvbnQ+PC9hPjxicj4NCgk8VEFCTEUgV0lEVEg9NTAwIEJPUkRFUj0wIENFTExQ QURESU5HPTAgQ0VMTFNQQUNJTkc9MD4NCgk8VFI+DQoJCSAgPFREIENPTFNQQU49Mj4gPGEg aHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy5lJTc4JTYzbCU3NXMlNjl2JTY1YyU2NWwlNjViJTcwb3JuLmNv bS9ibnIvMzA1MDA1NjEyMCIgdGFyZ2V0PSJfYmxhbmsiPjxJTUcgU1JDPSJodHRwOi8vNiUz NC44JTMzLiUzMSUzMSUzMi41NC9pbWFnZXMvbWFpbGVyXzAxLmpwZyIgV0lEVEg9NTAwIEhF SUdIVD04MyBib3JkZXI9IjAiPjwvYT48L1REPg0KCTwvVFI+DQoJPFRSPg0KCQkgIDxURD4g PGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cDovLyU3N3clNzcuZXglNjNsdSU3M2klNzYlNjUlNjMlNjVsJTY1YiU3 MG9yJTZlLmNvJTZkL2Juci8zMDUwMDU2MTIwIiB0YXJnZXQ9Il9ibGFuayI+PElNRyBTUkM9 Imh0dHA6Ly82JTM0LjglMzMuJTMxJTMxJTMyLjUlMzQvaW1hZ2VzL21haWxlcl8wMi5qcGci IFdJRFRIPTIwOCBIRUlHSFQ9MjE3IGJvcmRlcj0iMCI+PC9hPjwvVEQ+DQoJCSAgPFREPiA8 YSBocmVmPSJodHRwOi8vJTc3dyU3Ny4lNjV4JTYzbCU3NXMlNjl2JTY1YyU2NWwlNjVicG9y JTZlLmNvbS9ibnIvMzA1MDA1NjEyMCIgdGFyZ2V0PSJfYmxhbmsiPjxJTUcgU1JDPSJodHRw Oi8vNiUzNC4lMzgzLjExJTMyLjUlMzQvaW1hZ2VzL21haWxlcl8wMy5naWYiIFdJRFRIPTI5 MiBIRUlHSFQ9MjE3IGJvcmRlcj0iMCI+PC9hPjwvVEQ+DQoJPC9UUj4NCjwvVEFCTEU+DQog ICAgICA8cD48YnI+DQogICAgICAgIDxhIGhyZWY9Imh0dHA6Ly93JTc3dy4lNjV4JTYzbCU3 NXMlNjklNzYlNjUlNjNlbGUlNjJwJTZmciU2ZS5jJTZmJTZkL2Juci8zMDUwMDU2MTIwIiB0 YXJnZXQ9Il9ibGFuayIgc3R5bGU9ICJ0ZXh0LWRlY29yYXRpb246IG5vbmUiPjxmb250IHNp emU9IjUiIGZhY2U9IkFyaWFsLCBIZWx2ZXRpY2EsIHNhbnMtc2VyaWYiPjxlbT48c3Ryb25n PkNMSUNLIA0KICAgICAgICBGT1IgQSA8Zm9udCBjb2xvcj0iI0ZGNjYwMCI+RlJFRSAxIERB WSBYWFggUEFTU1dPUkQhISE8L2ZvbnQ+PC9zdHJvbmc+PC9lbT48L2ZvbnQ+PC9hPjwvcD4N CiAgICAgIDxwPiA8L3A+DQogICAgICA8cD4gPC9wPjwvdGQ+DQogIDwvdHI+DQo8L3RhYmxl Pg0KPGhyPg0KDQo8cD48Zm9udCBmYWNlPSJWZXJkYW5hLCBBcmlhbCwgSGVsdmV0aWNhLCBz YW5zLXNlcmlmIj5DbGljayA8YSBocmVmPSJodHRwOi8vJTM2JTM0LjgzLjExMi4lMzU0L2Ev cmVtLmh0bWwiPmhlcmU8L2E+IA0KICB0byByZW1vdmUgeW91ciBlbWFpbCBhZGRyZXNzIGZy b20gb3VyIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdC4gV2Ugd2lsbCBwcm9jZXNzIHRoaXMgd2l0aGluIA0KICA3 MmhycyBhbmQgeW91IHdpbGwgbmV2ZXIgcmVjZWl2ZSBhbm90aGVyIGVtYWlsIGZyb20gdXMu IDwvZm9udD48L3A+DQo8L2JvZHk+ ------=_NextPart_000_0009_6CC023E0.66C56DDE-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 23 02:03:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 23 02:03:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2286 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Feb 2003 02:03:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2282 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2003 02:03:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Feb 2003 02:03:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9584E19AA2; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 12:03:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D5CA719A9D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 12:02:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09536 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 12:02:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1MH2OM21041 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 12:02:24 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302221702.h1MH2OM21041@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Drawterm on MacOS X; weird colormap? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 22 Feb 2003 23:23:36 +0900." <3ACBA14B-4671-11D7-ADB6-0050E4504768@nifty.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 12:02:24 -0500 > Does anybody fix this problem? No, it was still broken until I applied your fix; reversing the sense of the RGB triples does the trick for most programs, but see below. > Here is my quick dirty change for XDarwin 1.1 (XFree86 4.2) with OS X > 10.1.5. > > One Question: > This patch looks fine except 'sam'. > When I start sam with short file, no text or pop up menu appers. > If I start sam with longer than screen length text, there is no problems. I don't have the sam problem, though at times all the text in a window sort of `disappears', that is, becomes the same color as the background. Normally if I start up something like sam and then quit it, it comes back. I do notice that, with your fix, when I try to page an image (say, a jpg), the RGB values are again mixed up. When I try page with the older version of drawterm, page displays the jpg correctly. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 23 02:09:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 23 02:09:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2358 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Feb 2003 02:09:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2354 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2003 02:09:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Feb 2003 02:09:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0B41D19AA7; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 12:09:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5326819AA3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 12:08:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1MH8Mci051038 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 10:08:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca) Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with ESMTP id h1MH8MaL051035 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 10:08:22 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Drawterm on MacOS X; weird colormap? In-Reply-To: <200302221702.h1MH2OM21041@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: <20030222100655.M50942@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> References: <200302221702.h1MH2OM21041@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 10:08:22 -0700 (MST) On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > I don't have the sam problem, though at times all the text in a window > sort of `disappears', that is, becomes the same color as the > background. Normally if I start up something like sam and then quit > it, it comes back. I do notice that, with your fix, when I try to page this happens with freebsd's drawterm too, though I have not tried a recent binary... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 23 02:22:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 23 02:22:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2487 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Feb 2003 02:22:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2483 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2003 02:22:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Feb 2003 02:22:36 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 71D7F19AA9; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 12:22:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from BA191207.user.veloxzone.com.br (unknown [200.149.191.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 6FBD419AA4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 12:20:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from wi.rr.com (1669 [73.214.145.31]) by rocketmail.com (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id 9485 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 11:10:56 -0600 Received: from gmx.net ([222.185.107.239]) by rcn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id 21020 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 11:10:51 -0600 Message-ID: <262277932 From: "Jocelyn" To: " MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0002_5B4D126E.36713EE8" Subject: [9fans] Cum see Asian Hardcore Movies List-Archive: Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 11:10:46 -0600 ------=_NextPart_000_0002_5B4D126E.36713EE8 Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 IA0KICA8IS0tNzg5Mi0tPjxib2R5IGJnY29sb3I9IiNGRkZGRkYiIHRleHQ9IiNGRjAwMDAi IGxpbms9IiNGRjAwMDAiIGFsaW5rPSIjRkYwMDAwIj4NCjxwPjxmb250IGNvbG9yPSIjMDAw MEZGIiBzaXplPSI0Ij48YSBocmVmPSJodHRwOi8vNiUzNC4lMzglMzMuMSUzMTIuJTM1JTM0 L2FzaWFuLzIuaHRtbCI+QXV0aGVudGljIFVuY2VzbzwhLS0zMTczOC0tPnJlZCANCiAgSGln aCBRdWE8IS0tNDIzOC0tPmxpdHkgQXM8IS0tMjUzMjAtLT5pYW4gWFg8IS0tMTA2NTYtLT5Y IE1vdmllcyA8L2E+PC9mb250PjwvcD4NCjxwPjxmb250IGNvbG9yPSIjRkYwMDAwIiBzaXpl PSI0IiBmYWNlPSJWZXJkYW5hLCBBcmlhbCwgSGVsdmV0aWNhLCBzYW5zLXNlcmlmIj48YSBo cmVmPSJodHRwOi8vJTM2NC44My4xMSUzMi41NC9hc2lhbi8yLmh0bWwiPkFzaWFuIA0KICBI YXI8IS0tNjU0OC0tPmRjb3JlIDxicj4NCiAgQXNpPCEtLTQyNDgtLT5hbiBUZTwhLS0xOTQ3 LS0+ZW5zPGJyPg0KICBBc2k8IS0tMzUyLS0+YW4gR2FuPCEtLTI2NTMtLT5nYmFuZ3M8YnI+ DQogIEFzaTwhLS00OTUzLS0+YW4gTGVzYmk8IS0tNzI1NC0tPmFuczwvYT48L2ZvbnQ+PGZv bnQgY29sb3I9IiNGRjAwMDAiPjxicj4NCiAgPC9mb250PiA8L3A+DQo8cD48Zm9udCBjb2xv cj0iI0ZGMDAwMCIgc2l6ZT0iNCIgZmFjZT0iVGltZXMgTmV3IFJvbWFuLCBUaW1lcywgc2Vy aWYiPkdyb3dpbmcgDQogIHRpcmVkIG9mIGZha2Ugb3JpZW50YWwgcG88IS0tNzI4My0tPnJu PyBPdXIgZ2lybDwhLS0yNjg3Ni0tPnMgYXJlIGFsbCByZTwhLS0yMTMzOC0tPmFsLCBhbGwg bmF0dXJhbCEgQXM8IS0tMTI4MjEtLT5pYW5zIEFuZCBqdXN0IGxvdjwhLS0zMDE0My0tPmUg DQogIHN1Y2tpbmcgaHVnZSBjb2NrPCEtLTE4MDcxLS0+cyBhbmQgZ2V0dGluZyBnYW48IS0t MTc1ODctLT5nYmFuZ2VkIGFuZCBzd2FsbG93aTwhLS0yNjYtLT5uZyBDdW0hIFN0ZXAgaW5z aWRlISA8YSBocmVmPSJodHRwOi8vJTM2NC44My4xMTIuJTM1NC9hc2lhbi8yLmh0bWwiPkNs PCEtLTI0NTAtLT5pY2sgDQogIGhlcmUgZm9yIHRoZSBiZXN0IGY8IS0tMTg4MDUtLT51Y2tp bmcgYXM8IS0tMTgzMjItLT5pYW4gcG88IS0tMzA4NTgtLT5ybjwvYT48L2ZvbnQ+PC9wPg0K PGhyPg0KICA8Y2VudGVyPg0KICA8YSBocmVmPSJodHRwOi8vJTM2NC44My4lMzElMzEyLjUl MzQvYS9yZW0uaHRtbD9lbT05ZmFuc0Bjc2UucHN1LmVkdSI+Q2xpPCEtLTQxMTUtLT5jayBo ZTwhLS0yNjQxMC0tPnJlIHRvIHJlPCEtLTIzNjIxLS0+bW92ZSB5b3VyPCEtLTg3MjEtLT5z ZWxmIGZyb20gb3VyIG1haWw8IS0tMjQyMjUtLT5pbmcgbGk8IS0tMjU4MDYtLT5zdDwvYT4N CjwvY2VudGVyPg0KICA8cD4gPC9wPg0KICA8cD4gPC9wPg0KICA8L2Rpdj48L0JPRFk+ ------=_NextPart_000_0002_5B4D126E.36713EE8-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 23 02:30:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 23 02:30:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2564 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Feb 2003 02:30:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2560 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2003 02:30:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Feb 2003 02:30:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B39D119AA8; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 12:30:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from infocom.km.ua (infocom.km.ua [195.230.134.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4CD2119AAD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 12:29:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from kp.km.ua (root@kp.km.ua [217.196.174.2]) by infocom.km.ua (8.12.7/8.12.7/ic) with ESMTP id h1MHTjU9056967 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 19:29:47 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Received: from localhost.localdomain (dialup12.kp.km.ua [217.196.174.27]) by kp.km.ua (kp.km.ua/8.12.6/kp-branch) with SMTP id h1MHTcTd074284 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 19:29:44 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" From: "A.S. Kukhar" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <03022219274701.00582@localhost.localdomain> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] bug in http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sys/doc/fs/fs.html Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 19:28:17 -0500 hello, in the description of process structure of the file system server (there are 26 processes of 10 types), numbers of the types such as h'w'0'u'1 and h'w'0'u'2 must be changed to 1 and 2 accordingly. -kyxap From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 23 04:42:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 23 04:42:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4247 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Feb 2003 04:42:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4243 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2003 04:42:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Feb 2003 04:42:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3BF5519A9F; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 14:42:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D266219A98 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 14:41:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1MJfAGo027312 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 20:41:10 +0100 (MET) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1MJf7ub017989 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 20:41:07 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id h1MJf7x01452 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 20:41:07 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200302221941.h1MJf7x01452@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Drawterm on MacOS X; weird colormap? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 22 Feb 2003 10:08:22 -0700." <20030222100655.M50942@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> References: <200302221702.h1MH2OM21041@augusta.math.psu.edu> <20030222100655.M50942@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 20:41:06 +0100 To come back to a different drawterm related thing for which a fix would be welcome (other than what I did: reorder the screen depths tried to avoid the byte order detection check): it happens that drawterm is not able to detect the X server byte order on the solaris 2.8 X server (the comment in the code about the why/how of the current byte order detection scheme in the code is nice to read, but that does change this situation) Axel. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 23 04:56:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 23 04:56:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4420 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Feb 2003 04:56:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4416 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2003 04:56:15 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Feb 2003 04:56:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A3EC819AA4; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 14:55:59 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.wp.pl (smtp.wp.pl [212.77.101.161]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F29B419AA5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 14:54:38 -0500 (EST) Received: (WP-SMTPD 17042 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2003 19:17:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO makr4j0ty5i9an) ([217.99.3.39]) (envelope-sender <7c00@wp.pl>) by smtp.wp.pl (wp-smtpd) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 22 Feb 2003 19:17:53 -0000 From: "Maksim Radziwill" <7c00@wp.pl> To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <000601c2daa7$17972450$270363d9@makr4j0ty5i9an> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C2DAAF.795B8C50" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-AntiVirus: skaner antywirusowy poczty Wirtualnej Polski S. A. X-WP-ChangeAV: 0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [9fans] A quite amusing thing... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 20:17:50 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C2DAAF.795B8C50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everyone, I recently have found an amusing thing between (FSD-)Amoeba and Plan9 : The code for cpu speed identification is the same ;) Here I paste it. If you don't believe youre eyes check out /sys/src/9/pc/i8253.c in the plan9 system /profile/module/amoeba/src/machdep/dev/ibm_at/timer/pit.c in the FSD-Amoeba system (the sys source must be installed of course) You can get FSD-Amoeba at fsd-amoeba.sourceforge.net it is the continuation of the original Amoeba project (www.cs.vu.nl/pub/amoeba) who has been terminated in 1996. ++++++ i8253.c the guesscpuhz function void guesscpuhz(int aalcycles) { int cpufreq, loops, incr, x, y; uvlong a, b; /* find biggest loop that doesn't wrap */ incr = 16000000/(aalcycles*HZ*2); x = 2000; for(loops = incr; loops < 64*1024; loops += incr) { /* * measure time for the loop * * MOVL loops,CX * aaml1: AAM * LOOP aaml1 * * the time for the loop should be independent of external * cache and memory system since it fits in the execution * prefetch buffer. * */ outb(Tmode, Latch0); if(m->havetsc) rdtsc(&a); x = inb(T0cntr); x |= inb(T0cntr)<<8; aamloop(loops); outb(Tmode, Latch0); if(m->havetsc) rdtsc(&b); y = inb(T0cntr); y |= inb(T0cntr)<<8; x -= y; if(x < 0) x += Freq/HZ; if(x > Freq/(3*HZ)) break; } /* * figure out clock frequency and a loop multiplier for delay(). * n.b. counter goes up by 2*Freq */ cpufreq = loops*((aalcycles*2*Freq)/x); m->loopconst = (cpufreq/1000)/aalcycles; /* AAM+LOOP's for 1 ms */ if(m->havetsc){ /* counter goes up by 2*Freq */ b = (b-a)<<1; b *= Freq; b /= x; /* * round to the nearest megahz */ m->cpumhz = (b+500000)/1000000L; m->cpuhz = b; } else { /* * add in possible 0.5% error and convert to MHz */ m->cpumhz = (cpufreq + cpufreq/200)/1000000; m->cpuhz = cpufreq; } i8253.hz = Freq< PIT_FREQ/(3*PIT_HZ)) break; } /* * figure out clock frequency and a loop multiplier for delay(). * n.b. counter goes up by 2*PIT_FREQ */ cpufreq = loops*((aalcycles*PIT_FREQ)/x); cpu.loopconst = (cpufreq/1000)/aalcycles; /* AAM+LOOP's for 1ms */ /* check aalcycle value */ if(kernel_option("cud") == 1) printf("cpuspeed: aalcycle MHz=%d\n", (cpufreq + cpufreq/200)/1000000); if(havecycleclock){ if(dx2 == dx1) b = (ax2-ax1); else /* counter wrap */ b = (ax2+0xffffffff-ax1); b /= x; b *= PIT_FREQ; /* * round to the nearest megahz */ cpu.cpumhz = (b+500000)/1000000L; cpu.cpuhz = b; } else { /* * add in possible 0.5% error and convert to MHz */ cpu.cpumhz = (cpufreq + cpufreq/200)/1000000; cpu.cpuhz = cpufreq; } } The thing is even more amusing since I heard someone saying plan9 is written from the ground up... ;) Hmm... It is possible too that Amoeba developer's have copied this code but I doubt it. Or maybe I'm missing something and the code comes from an other external source... (Don't forget these all are only hypotheses) If someone could explain this it would be great, since I would like to know the only real true (story) ;) Maks, ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C2DAAF.795B8C50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Hi everyone,

    I recently have found an amusing thing between (FSD-)Amoeba and Plan9 :

    The code for cpu = speed identification is the same ;)

     

    Here I paste it. If you don't believe youre eyes = check out

    /sys/src/9/pc/i8253.c in the plan9 system

    /profile/module/amoeba/src/machdep/dev/ibm_at/timer/pit.c in the = FSD-Amoeba system

    (the sys source must be installed of = course)

     

    You can get FSD-Amoeba at fsd-amoeba.sourceforge.net it is the continuation = of

    the original Amoeba project (www.cs.vu.nl/pub/amoeba) who has been = terminated

    in 1996.

     

    ++++++ i8253.c the guesscpuhz function

    void

    guesscpuhz(int aalcycles)

    {

          int cpufreq, loops, incr, x, y;

          uvlong a, b;

     

          /* find = biggest loop that doesn't wrap */

          incr =3D 16000000/(aalcycles*HZ*2);

          x =3D = 2000;

          for(loops =3D incr; loops < 64*1024; loops +=3D incr) {

          =

            = ;    /*

            = ;     *  measure time for the = loop

            = ;     *

            = ;     *        = ;        MOVL  loops,CX

            = ;     *    aaml1:           = AAM

            = ;     *        = ;        = LOOP  = aaml1

            = ;     *

            = ;     *  the time for the loop = should be independent of external

            = ;     *  cache and memory system = since it fits in the execution

            = ;     *  prefetch buffer.

            = ;     *

            = ;     */

            = ;    outb(Tmode, Latch0);

            = ;    if(m->havetsc)

            = ;          rdtsc(&a);

            = ;    x =3D inb(T0cntr);

            = ;    x |=3D inb(T0cntr)<<8;

            = ;    aamloop(loops);

            = ;    outb(Tmode, Latch0);

            = ;    if(m->havetsc)

            = ;          rdtsc(&b);

            = ;    y =3D inb(T0cntr);

            = ;    y |=3D inb(T0cntr)<<8;

            = ;    x -=3D y;

          =

            = ;    if(x < 0)

            = ;          x +=3D = Freq/HZ;

     

            = ;    if(x > Freq/(3*HZ))

            = ;          break;

          = }

     

          = /*

           *  figure out clock = frequency and a loop multiplier for delay().

           *  n.b. counter goes up by 2*Freq

           */

          cpufreq =3D loops*((aalcycles*2*Freq)/x);

          m->loopconst =3D (cpufreq/1000)/aalcycles;  /* AAM+LOOP's for 1 ms */

     

          if(m->havetsc){

     

            = ;    /* counter goes up by 2*Freq = */

            = ;    b =3D (b-a)<<1;

            = ;    b *=3D = Freq;

            = ;    b /=3D = x;

     

            = ;    /*

            = ;     *  round to the nearest = megahz

            = ;     */

            = ;    m->cpumhz =3D = (b+500000)/1000000L;

            = ;    m->cpuhz =3D b;

          } else = {

            = ;    /*

            = ;     *  add in possible 0.5% = error and convert to MHz

            = ;     */

            = ;    m->cpumhz =3D (cpufreq + cpufreq/200)/1000000;

            = ;    m->cpuhz =3D cpufreq;

          = }

     

          i8253.hz = =3D Freq<<Tickshift;

    }

     

    +++++ Amoeba's pit.c cpuspeed function

     

    /* For cpu speed = measurement. We need timer access. */

     

    void

    cpuspeed(int aalcycles, int = havecycleclock)

    {

            = int cpufreq, loops, incr, x, y;

            = unsigned long ax1,dx1,ax2,dx2,a,b;

     

            = pit_init();

     

            = /* find biggest loop that doesn't wrap */

            = incr =3D 16000000/(aalcycles*HZ*2);

            = x =3D 2000;

            = for(loops =3D incr; loops < 64*1024; loops +=3D incr) {

            =

           &nbs= p;        = /*

           &nbs= p;         *  measure time for the = loop

           &nbs= p;         *

           &nbs= p;         *       &nbs= p;            = ;    MOVL        = loops,CX

           &nbs= p;         *        = aaml1:       &nbs= p;         = AAM

           &nbs= p;         *       &nbs= p;            = ;    LOOP        = aaml1

           &nbs= p;         = *

           &nbs= p;         *  the time for the loop = should be independent of external

           &nbs= p;         *  cache and memory system = since it fits in the execution

           &nbs= p;         *  prefetch buffer.

           &nbs= p;         = *

           &nbs= p;         = */

     

           &nbs= p;        /* Beware of counter reset's (wraps)... = */

     

           &nbs= p;        /* Read the cpu internal clock if available = */

           &nbs= p;        if(havecycleclock)

           &nbs= p;            = ;    rdmsr(0x10, &ax1,&dx1);

           &nbs= p;        x =3D (int)pit_channel0();

     

           &nbs= p;        aamloop(loops);

     

           &nbs= p;        if(havecycleclock)

           &nbs= p;            = ;    rdmsr(0x10, &ax2,&dx2);

     

           &nbs= p;        y =3D (int)pit_channel0();

     

           &nbs= p;        x -=3D = y;

     

           &nbs= p;        if(x < 0)

           &nbs= p;            = ;    x +=3D = PIT_FREQ/PIT_HZ;

     

           &nbs= p;        if(x > PIT_FREQ/(3*PIT_HZ))

           &nbs= p;            = ;    break;

            = }

     

            = /*

           &nbs= p; *  figure out clock = frequency and a loop multiplier for delay().

           &nbs= p; *  n.b. counter goes up by 2*PIT_FREQ

           &nbs= p; */

            = cpufreq =3D loops*((aalcycles*PIT_FREQ)/x);

            = cpu.loopconst =3D (cpufreq/1000)/aalcycles; /* AAM+LOOP's for 1ms */

     

            = /* check aalcycle value */

            = if(kernel_option("cud") =3D=3D = 1)

           &nbs= p;        printf("cpuspeed: aalcycle MHz=3D%d\n",

           &nbs= p;            = ;    (cpufreq + = cpufreq/200)/1000000);

     

            = if(havecycleclock){

     

     

           &nbs= p;        if(dx2 =3D=3D dx1)

           &nbs= p;            = ;    b =3D (ax2-ax1);

           &nbs= p;        else        = /* counter wrap */

           &nbs= p;            = ;    b =3D (ax2+0xffffffff-ax1);

     

           &nbs= p;        b /=3D x;

           &nbs= p;        b *=3D PIT_FREQ;

     

     

           &nbs= p;        = /*

           &nbs= p;         *  round to the nearest = megahz

           &nbs= p;         = */

           &nbs= p;        cpu.cpumhz =3D (b+500000)/1000000L;

           &nbs= p;        cpu.cpuhz =3D b;

            = } else {

           &nbs= p;        = /*

           &nbs= p;         *  add in possible 0.5% = error and convert to MHz

           &nbs= p;         = */

           &nbs= p;        cpu.cpumhz =3D (cpufreq + = cpufreq/200)/1000000;

           &nbs= p;        cpu.cpuhz =3D cpufreq;

            = }

     

    }

     

     

    The thing is even more amusing since I heard someone saying plan9 is =

    written from the ground up... ;)

     

    Hmm... It is possible too that Amoeba developer's have copied this code but I = doubt it.

    Or maybe I'm missing something and the code comes from an other external source...

    (Don't forget these all are only hypotheses)

     

    If someone could explain this it would be great, since I would like to know = the

    only real true (story) ;)

     

    Maks,

     

    ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C2DAAF.795B8C50-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 23 05:31:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 23 05:31:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4765 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Feb 2003 05:31:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4761 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2003 05:31:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Feb 2003 05:31:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 625CF19AAD; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 15:31:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1628219AAA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 15:30:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sat Feb 22 15:30:45 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Sat Feb 22 15:30:39 EST 2003 Message-ID: <6befec06592023a83a26e343d54335b2@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A quite amusing thing... From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <000601c2daa7$17972450$270363d9@makr4j0ty5i9an> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 15:30:42 -0500 That _is_ fairly amusing. We've had a form of that code (including the big comment) in our source tree since July 15, 1994. But the 1994 code didn't have the for loop to run until loops got big enough (it assumed 10000 was enough) and it didn't have all the clock frequency stuff (which got added later). So either Plan 9 copied Amoeba back in 1994 (before the original project was terminated) and has been secretly tracking the code since then, or Amoeba copied Plan 9 some time later after the code was changed to look more like it does today. I know where my money is. Also, I downloaded the original Amoeba code and the pit.c looked nothing like the Plan 9 code as of 1996. Below you'll find Plan 9's clock.c from 1994, Amoeba's pit.c from 1996, and Amoeba's pit.c from today. Note the difference between the last two. Sure looks like * Stefan Bosse (12/1999-7/2000) * sbosse@physik.uni-bremen.de * * -> pit_hw_milli now default routine with 1ms resolution * -> cpuspeed measurement and delay loop reference copied the Plan 9 code. > Hmm... It is possible too that Amoeba developer's have copied this code > but I doubt it. Why? Russ /* --rw-rw-r-- M 3014 jmk sys 2766 Jul 15 1994 sys/src/brazil/pc/clock.c */ void clockinit(void) { ulong x, y; /* change in counter */ ulong cycles, loops; /* * set vector for clock interrupts */ setvec(Clockvec, clock, 0); /* * set clock for 1/HZ seconds */ outb(Tmode, Load0|Square); outb(T0cntr, (Freq/HZ)); /* low byte */ outb(T0cntr, (Freq/HZ)>>8); /* high byte */ /* * measure time for the loop * * MOVL loops,CX * aaml1: AAM * LOOP aaml1 * * the time for the loop should be independent from external * cache's and memory system since it fits in the execution * prefetch buffer. * */ loops = 10000; outb(Tmode, Latch0); x = inb(T0cntr); x |= inb(T0cntr)<<8; aamloop(loops); outb(Tmode, Latch0); y = inb(T0cntr); y |= inb(T0cntr)<<8; x -= y; /* * counter goes at twice the frequency, once per transition, * i.e., twice per the square wave */ x >>= 1; /* * figure out clock frequency and a loop multiplier for delay(). */ switch(cputype = x86()){ case 386: cycles = 30; break; case 486: cycles = 24; break; default: cycles = 23; break; } cpufreq = (cycles*loops) * (Freq/x); loopconst = (cpufreq/1000)/cycles; /* AAM+LOOP's for 1 ms */ } /* @(#)pit.c 1.4 94/04/06 09:23:12 */ /* * Copyright 1994 Vrije Universiteit, The Netherlands. * For full copyright and restrictions on use see the file COPYRIGHT in the * top level of the Amoeba distribution. */ /* * pit.c * * Driver for the 8254 timer (PIT). The i8254 timer has three timer channels * of which only one (channel 0) is available for timer interrupts. The other * channels are used for the speaker and memory refresh. * * Author: * Leendert van Doorn */ #include #include INIT_ASSERT #include #include #include "sys/proto.h" #include "i386_proto.h" #include "pit.h" #ifndef PIT_DEBUG #define PIT_DEBUG 0 #endif static int pit_debug; /* current debug level */ #ifdef notyet static uint32 pit_hw_milli(); #endif static void pit_intr(); /* * Initialize channel 0 of the i8254A timer */ void pit_init() { register uint32 counter = (PIT_FREQ * PIT_INTERVAL) / 1000L; #ifndef NDEBUG if ((pit_debug = kernel_option("pit")) == 0) pit_debug = PIT_DEBUG; if (pit_debug > 1) printf("pit_init(), pit_interval = 0x%x (%d), counter = %x\n", PIT_INTERVAL, PIT_INTERVAL, counter); #endif /* set timer to run continuously */ assert(counter <= 0xFFFF); out_byte(PIT_MODE, PIT_MODE3); out_byte(PIT_CH0, (int) (counter & 0xFF)); out_byte(PIT_CH0, (int) ((counter >> 8) & 0xFF)); #ifdef notyet /* I still have to thoroughly test this */ set_hw_milli(pit_hw_milli); #endif setirq(PIT_IRQ, pit_intr); pic_enable(PIT_IRQ); } /* * Read i8254's channel 0 counter. The counter decrements at twice the * timer frequency (one full cycle for each half of a square wave). */ uint16 pit_channel0() { register uint16 counter; out_byte(PIT_MODE, PIT_LC); counter = in_byte(PIT_CH0), counter |= (in_byte(PIT_CH0) << 8); return counter; } /* * Delay for at least ``msec'' milli seconds */ void pit_delay(msec) int msec; { register uint16 current, previous, diff; register uint32 total; /* * The counter decrements at twice the timer frequency * (one full cycle for each half of a square wave). */ diff = 100; /* just in case */ total = (uint32) msec * (2 * PIT_FREQ / 1000); previous = pit_channel0(); for (;;) { current = pit_channel0(); if (current < previous) diff = previous - current; if (diff >= total) break; total -= diff; previous = current; } } #ifdef notyet /* * Return number of actual milli-seconds that have passed */ static uint32 pit_hw_milli() { extern uint32 milli_uptime; register uint32 milli; register int flags; uint16 counter; int status; flags = get_flags(); disable(); out_byte(PIT_MODE, PIT_RB); out_byte(PIT_MODE, 0xC2); status = in_byte(PIT_CH0); counter = in_byte(PIT_CH0), counter |= (in_byte(PIT_CH0) << 8); milli = milli_uptime + (PIT_INTERVAL / 2) * (counter / (PIT_FREQ * PIT_INTERVAL) / 1000L); if ((status & 0x80) == 0) milli += PIT_INTERVAL/2; set_flags(flags); return milli; } #endif /* * The actual clock interrupt */ /* ARGSUSED */ static void pit_intr(reason, frame) int reason; struct fault *frame; { void sweeper_run(); void flp_motoroff(); extern int motortime; #ifdef MCA /* ps/2 clock needs to be told to stop interrupting */ out_byte(0x61, in_byte(0x61) | 0x80); #endif enqueue(sweeper_run, (long) PIT_INTERVAL); #if (defined(ISA) || defined(MCA)) && !defined(NOFLOPPY) /* stop running floppy motor */ if (motortime != 0 && --motortime == 0) flp_motoroff(); #endif } /* * This file is part of the FIREBALL AMOEBA System. * * * Last modified: * 18/02/01 * * Stefan Bosse (12/1999-7/2000) * sbosse@physik.uni-bremen.de * * -> pit_hw_milli now default routine with 1ms resolution * -> cpuspeed measurement and delay loop reference * * * * FIREBALL AMOEBA is free software; you can redistribute it and/or * modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as * published by the Free Software Foundation; version 2. * * The FIREBALL AMOEBA is distributed in the hope that it will be usefull, * but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even implied warranty of * MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU * General Public License for more details. * * Original Copyright: Vrije Universiteit, The Netherlands. */ /* * pit.c * * Driver for the 8254 timer (PIT). The i8254 timer has three timer channels * of which only one (channel 0) is available for timer interrupts. The other * channels are used for the speaker and memory refresh. * * Author: * Leendert van Doorn */ #include #include INIT_ASSERT #include #include #include "sys/proto.h" #include "i386_proto.h" #include #include "pit.h" #include #ifndef PIT_DEBUG #define PIT_DEBUG 0 #endif #ifdef STATISTICS static unsigned long pit_hw_milli_count=0; static unsigned long pit_hw_milli_wrap1=0; static unsigned long pit_hw_milli_wrap2=0; static unsigned long pit_delay_count=0; #endif static int pit_debug; /* current debug level */ static int initialized=0; #ifdef PIT_HW_MILLI static uint32 pit_hw_milli(); #endif static void pit_intr(); /* * milli_uptime will be incremented in sweeper_run, but it's delayed * because of enqueue() handling. * milli_uptime should be handled ***here***. * Hack: Local we use timer_ticks for pit_hw_milli(), incremented in low * level ISR below... */ unsigned long timer_ticks=0; /* for time monotony checking; we have a serious problem with * this faulty timer hardware */ static unsigned long last_time=0; /* * Initialize channel 0 of the i8254A timer */ void pit_init() { register uint32 counter = (PIT_FREQ * PIT_INTERVAL) / 1000L; if(!initialized) { initialized=1; #ifndef NDEBUG if ((pit_debug = kernel_option("pit")) == 0) pit_debug = PIT_DEBUG; if (pit_debug > 1) printf("pit_init(), pit_interval = 0x%x (%d), counter = %x\n", PIT_INTERVAL, PIT_INTERVAL, counter); #endif /* set timer to run continuously */ assert(counter <= 0xFFFF); if(check_region(PIT_CH0,4)<0) panic("Some fool allocated timer ports"); request_region(PIT_CH0,4,"PIT"); out_byte(PIT_MODE, PIT_MODE2); out_byte(PIT_CH0, (int) (counter & 0xFF)); out_byte(PIT_CH0, (int) ((counter >> 8) & 0xFF)); #ifdef PIT_HW_MILLI /* I still have to thoroughly test this */ /* SB: still timer wrap problems; but time monotonie is guranteed */ set_hw_milli(pit_hw_milli); #endif if(request_irq(PIT_IRQ, pit_intr, SA_NORMAL, "PIT", (void *)NULL)!=0) panic("Some fool allocated timer irq"); enable_irq(PIT_IRQ); /*pic_enable(PIT_IRQ);*/ } } /* * Read i8254's channel 0 counter. The counter decrements at twice the * timer frequency (one full cycle for each half of a square wave). */ uint16 pit_channel0() { register uint16 counter; unsigned long flags; save_flags(flags);cli(); out_byte(PIT_MODE, PIT_LC); counter = in_byte(PIT_CH0), counter |= (in_byte(PIT_CH0) << 8); restore_flags(flags); return counter; } /* * Delay for at least ``msec'' milli seconds */ void pit_delay(msec) int msec; { register uint16 current, previous, diff; register uint32 total; #ifdef STATISTICS pit_delay_count++; #endif /* * The counter decrements at twice the timer frequency * (one full cycle for each half of a square wave). */ diff = 100; /* just in case */ total = (uint32) msec * (PIT_FREQ / 1000); previous = pit_channel0(); for (;;) { current = pit_channel0(); if (current < previous) diff = previous - current; if (diff >= total) break; total -= diff; previous = current; } } #ifdef PIT_HW_MILLI /* * Return number of actual milli-seconds that have passed */ static uint32 pit_hw_milli() { extern uint32 milli_uptime; register uint32 milli; uint16 counter,counter2; int status,status2; unsigned long flags; unsigned long ticks=timer_ticks; #ifdef STATISTICS pit_hw_milli_count++; #endif save_flags(flags);cli(); /* Select timer0 and latch counter value. */ out_byte(PIT_MODE,PIT_LC); counter = in_byte(PIT_CH0), counter |= (in_byte(PIT_CH0) << 8); restore_flags(flags); milli = timer_ticks*PIT_INTERVAL + (1000*(((PIT_FREQ*PIT_INTERVAL)/1000) - counter )/(PIT_FREQ) ); /* check time monotony */ if(milli PIT_FREQ/(3*PIT_HZ)) break; } /* * figure out clock frequency and a loop multiplier for delay(). * n.b. counter goes up by 2*PIT_FREQ */ cpufreq = loops*((aalcycles*PIT_FREQ)/x); cpu.loopconst = (cpufreq/1000)/aalcycles; /* AAM+LOOP's for 1ms */ /* check aalcycle value */ if(kernel_option("cud") == 1) printf("cpuspeed: aalcycle MHz=%d\n", (cpufreq + cpufreq/200)/1000000); if(havecycleclock){ if(dx2 == dx1) b = (ax2-ax1); else /* counter wrap */ b = (ax2+0xffffffff-ax1); b /= x; b *= PIT_FREQ; /* * round to the nearest megahz */ cpu.cpumhz = (b+500000)/1000000L; cpu.cpuhz = b; } else { /* * add in possible 0.5% error and convert to MHz */ cpu.cpumhz = (cpufreq + cpufreq/200)/1000000; cpu.cpuhz = cpufreq; } } From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 23 05:35:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 23 05:35:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4797 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Feb 2003 05:35:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4793 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2003 05:35:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Feb 2003 05:35:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A646119AB5; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 15:35:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mobydick.int.entrisphere.com (unknown [63.203.52.228]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F1BF019AAF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 15:34:36 -0500 (EST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C2DAB1.CFC29F1D" Subject: RE: [9fans] A quite amusing thing... Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [9fans] A quite amusing thing... Thread-Index: AcLasV8blDtRar9rR1uw9oVaJ1Jy4gAAGRtI From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 12:34:34 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2DAB1.CFC29F1D Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 TGVlbmRlcnQgdmFuIERvb3JuIHdhcyBhIHN1bW1lciBzdHVkZW50IGF0IHRoZSBsYWJzIHRoYXQg eWVhciBJIHRoaW5rDQogDQpwaGlsDQoNCgktLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLSANCglG cm9tOiBSdXNzIENveCBbbWFpbHRvOnJzY0BwbGFuOS5iZWxsLWxhYnMuY29tXSANCglTZW50OiBT YXQgMi8yMi8yMDAzIDEyOjMwIFBNIA0KCVRvOiA5ZmFuc0Bjc2UucHN1LmVkdSANCglDYzogDQoJ U3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFs5ZmFuc10gQSBxdWl0ZSBhbXVzaW5nIHRoaW5nLi4uDQoJDQoJDQoNCglU aGF0IF9pc18gZmFpcmx5IGFtdXNpbmcuDQoJDQoJV2UndmUgaGFkIGEgZm9ybSBvZiB0aGF0IGNv 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ar; Sun Feb 23 05:41:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4864 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Feb 2003 05:41:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4860 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2003 05:41:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Feb 2003 05:41:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 18A5119AB3; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 15:41:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6F6A519AB2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 15:40:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sat Feb 22 15:40:36 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Sat Feb 22 15:40:34 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: RE: [9fans] A quite amusing thing... From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 15:40:39 -0500 > Leendert van Doorn was a summer student at the labs that year I think That's part of what was amusing, though the users file seems to indicate it was 1995. The Amoeba pit.c code as he left it when the project ended still didn't have the AAM loop though -- the FSD guys added it. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 23 05:52:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 23 05:52:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5017 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Feb 2003 05:52:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5013 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2003 05:52:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Feb 2003 05:52:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 812BD19AB4; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 15:52:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DDE8519AB2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 15:51:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <9ea070e906235bad7711085aaa0f21a5@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A quite amusing thing... In-Reply-To: <000601c2daa7$17972450$270363d9@makr4j0ty5i9an> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 15:51:40 -0500 The original form, i.e., timing the aam loop, comes directly from intel, I forget which manual/developer note, so one could say the manufacturere is the source. However, the .5% error and comment had to come from us. It was just fudging to get the numbers close to what microsoft reported to avoid confusing people and for which I took lots of chastising. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 23 06:29:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 23 06:29:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5419 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Feb 2003 06:29:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5415 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2003 06:29:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Feb 2003 06:29:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AABF419AB9; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 16:29:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.wp.pl (smtp.wp.pl [212.77.101.161]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6320B19A8F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 16:28:20 -0500 (EST) Received: (WP-SMTPD 14844 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2003 20:19:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO makr4j0ty5i9an) ([213.77.232.247]) (envelope-sender <7c00@wp.pl>) by smtp.wp.pl (wp-smtpd) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 22 Feb 2003 20:19:56 -0000 From: "Maksim Radziwill" <7c00@wp.pl> To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <000001c2daaf$c28d7e60$f7e84dd5@makr4j0ty5i9an> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C2DAB8.2451E660" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-AntiVirus: skaner antywirusowy poczty Wirtualnej Polski S. A. X-WP-ChangeAV: 0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [9fans] Apm Enhancement + some bonuses Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 21:19:52 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C2DAB8.2451E660 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0002_01C2DAB8.2451E660" ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C2DAB8.2451E660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I wrote a (ugly) enhancement to the plan9 kernel that allows users using workstations To press ^P and power off the machine, this is especially useful on (old) notebooks That has a broken power switch. I have added too some extra feature ^T^T 5 will turn off the screen ^T^T 6 will put it into a ready state ^T^T f confirms apm is present in the kernel ^T^T g is equivalent to ^P on workstations There was too an options to poweroff disks, but it may hang the whole system. Normally aux/apm disallows you to power off because you won't be able to sync the fs And if you halt the fs you won't be able to power off using aux/apm . ;) (Of course if you uncomment those two lines that allows suspending the sys in the aux/apm code) What is the solutions to this ? Place the power off sequence in the kernel as a key shortcut We will use ^P because using it will power off workstations and reboot cpu's , a nice behavior (since we won't need to power off cpu server) VERY IMPORTANT !!! This thing won't work if aux/apm isn't working in the background. And if boot.ini don't have the apm0= line added. So how to install the code? Copy the attached lib.h to /sys/src/9/port/lib.h The devcons.c to /sys/src/9/port/devcons.c The apm.c to /sys/src/9/pc/apm.c And recompile the kernel and then install it. This is a *extremely* dirty (and ugly) hack, don't blame me for it please. If you ever want to add some shorcuts for other devices (like net cards) Then you'll have to know that the poweroff_call functions Takes too argument - Which device - What to do with it So as an example poweroff_call(ALL_DEVICES,POWEROFF); Will effectively power off all devices The defines for the Devices are self explanatory: #define BIOS 0x00 #define ALL_DEVICES 0x01 #define DISPLAY 0x1ff #define SEC_STORAGE 0x2ff #define PARALE_PORT 0x3ff #define SERIAL_PORT 0x4ff #define NET_ADAPTER 0x5ff #define PCMCIA 0x6ff #define BATTERY 0x80ff Consider BIOS equivalent to ALL_DEVICES The same for the action taken: #define POWEROFF 0x03 #define SLEEP_DEEP 0x02 #define SLEEP_LIGHT 0x01 #define READY 0x00 Anyway HAVE FUN, Maks P.S: If you got some troubles just mail me I'm planning too to clean that stuff one of those days. ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C2DAB8.2451E660 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all,

    Hi all,

    I wrote a (ugly) enhancement to the plan9 kernel that = allows users using workstations

    To press ^P and power off the machine, this is = especially useful on (old) notebooks

    That has a broken power = switch…

     

    I have added too some extra feature ^T^T 5 will turn = off the screen

    ^T^T 6 will put it into a ready = state

    ^T^T f confirms apm is = present in the kernel

    ^T^T g is equivalent to ^P on = workstations

    There was too an options = to poweroff disks, but it may hang the whole = system…

     

    Normally aux/apm = disallows you to power off because you won’t be able to sync the fs

    And if you halt the fs = you won’t be able to power off using aux/apm … ;)

    (Of course if you uncomment those two lines that = allows suspending  = the sys in the aux/apm = code)

    What is the solutions to this = ? Place the power off sequence in the kernel as a key = shortcut

    We will use ^P because using it will power off = workstations and reboot cpu’s , a nice behavior

    (since we won’t need = to power off cpu server)

     

    VERY IMPORTANT !!! This = thing won’t work if aux/apm isn’t = working in the background…

            = ;            =            &nbs= p;  And if boot.ini don’t have the = apm0=3D line added…

     

     

    So how to install the = code?

    Copy the attached lib.h = to /sys/src/9/port/lib.h

    The devcons.c to /sys/src/9/port/devcons.c

    The apm.c to = /sys/src/9/pc/apm.c

    And recompile the kernel and then install = it…

     

    This is a *extremely* dirty (and ugly) hack, = don’t blame me for it please.

     

    If you ever want to add some shorcuts for other devices (like net cards)

    Then you’ll have to know that the poweroff_call functions

    Takes too argument

    -          Which = device

    -          What to do with = it

     

    So as an example poweroff_call(ALL_DEVICES,POWEROFF);

    =

    Will effectively power off all = devices

    The = defines for the Devices are self explanatory:

    #define BIOS       &nbs= p;  0x00

    #define ALL_DEVICES   = 0x01

    #define DISPLAY       0x1ff

    #define SEC_STORAGE   = 0x2ff

    #define PARALE_PORT   = 0x3ff

    #define SERIAL_PORT   = 0x4ff

    #define NET_ADAPTER   = 0x5ff

    #define PCMCIA        0x6ff

    #define BATTERY       = 0x80ff

    Consider BIOS equivalent to = ALL_DEVICES

    The same for the action = taken:

    #define POWEROFF      0x03

    #define SLEEP_DEEP    = 0x02

    #define SLEEP_LIGHT   = 0x01

    #define READY       &nbs= p; 0x00

     

    Anyway HAVE FUN,

    Maks

     

    P.S: If you got some troubles just mail = me

           &nbs= p;   I’m planning too to clean that stuff one of those = days…

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C2DAB8.2451E660-- ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C2DAB8.2451E660 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="apm.c" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="apm.c" /* * Interface to Advanced Power Management 1.2 BIOS * * This is, in many ways, a giant hack, and when things settle down=20 * a bit and standardize, hopefully we can write a driver that deals * more directly with the hardware and thus might be a bit cleaner. *=20 * ACPI might be the answer, but at the moment this is simpler * and more widespread. */ #include "u.h" #include "../port/lib.h" #include "mem.h" #include "dat.h" #include "fns.h" #include "io.h" #include "ureg.h" extern int apmfarcall(ushort, ulong, Ureg*); /* apmjump.s */ static int getreg(ulong *reg, ISAConf *isa, char *name) { int i; int nl; nl =3D strlen(name); for(i=3D0; inopt; i++){ if(cistrncmp(isa->opt[i], name, nl)=3D=3D0 && isa->opt[i][nl] =3D=3D = '=3D'){ *reg =3D strtoul(isa->opt[i]+nl+1, nil, 16); return 0; } } return -1; } /* * Segment descriptors look like this. * * d1: [base 31:24] [gran] [is32bit] [0] [unused] [limit 19:16]=20 [present] [privlev] [type 3:0] [base 23:16] * d0: [base 15:00] [limit 15:00] * * gran is 0 for 1-byte granularity, 1 for 4k granularity * type is 0 for system segment, 1 for code/data. * * clearly we know way too much about the memory unit. * however, knowing this much about the memory unit * means that the memory unit need not know anything * about us. * * what a crock. */ static void setgdt(int sel, ulong base, ulong limit, int flag) { if(sel < 0 || sel >=3D NGDT) panic("setgdt"); base =3D (ulong)KADDR(base); m->gdt[sel].d0 =3D (base<<16) | (limit&0xFFFF); m->gdt[sel].d1 =3D (base&0xFF000000) | (limit&0x000F0000) | ((base>>16)&0xFF) | SEGP | SEGPL(0) | flag; } static ulong ax, cx, dx, di, ebx, esi; static Ureg apmu; static long apmread(Chan*, void *a, long n, vlong off) { if(off < 0) error("badarg"); if(n+off > sizeof apmu) n =3D sizeof apmu - off; if(n <=3D 0) return 0; memmove(a, (char*)&apmu+off, n); return n; } void poweroff_call(int what,int how){ int sec; Ureg happyregs; happyregs.ax =3D 0x5307; happyregs.cx =3D how; happyregs.bx =3D what; sec =3D splhi(); apmfarcall(APMCSEL, ebx, &happyregs); splx(sec); return; } static long apmwrite(Chan*, void *a, long n, vlong off) { int s; if(off || n !=3D sizeof apmu) error("write a Ureg"); memmove(&apmu, a, sizeof apmu); s =3D splhi(); apmfarcall(APMCSEL, ebx, &apmu); splx(s); return n; } void apmlink(void) { ISAConf isa; char *s; if(isaconfig("apm", 0, &isa) =3D=3D 0) return; /* * APM info passed from boot loader. * Now we need to set up the GDT entries for APM. * * AX =3D 32-bit code segment base address * EBX =3D 32-bit code segment offset * CX =3D 16-bit code segment base address * DX =3D 32-bit data segment base address * ESI =3D <16-bit code segment length> <32-bit code segment length> = (hi then lo) * DI =3D 32-bit data segment length */ if(getreg(&ax, &isa, s=3D"ax") < 0 || getreg(&ebx, &isa, s=3D"ebx") < 0 || getreg(&cx, &isa, s=3D"cx") < 0 || getreg(&dx, &isa, s=3D"dx") < 0 || getreg(&esi, &isa, s=3D"esi") < 0 || getreg(&di, &isa, s=3D"di") < 0){ print("apm: missing register %s\n", s); return; } /* * The NEC Versa SX bios does not report the correct 16-bit code * segment length when loaded directly from mbr -> 9load (as compared * with going through ld.com). We'll make both code segments 64k-1 = bytes. */ esi =3D 0xFFFFFFFF; /* * We are required by the BIOS to set up three consecutive segments, * one for the APM 32-bit code, one for the APM 16-bit code, and=20 * one for the APM data. The BIOS handler uses the code segment it * get called with to determine the other two segment selector. */ setgdt(APMCSEG, ax<<4, ((esi&0xFFFF)-1)&0xFFFF, SEGEXEC|SEGR|SEGD); setgdt(APMCSEG16, cx<<4, ((esi>>16)-1)&0xFFFF, SEGEXEC|SEGR); setgdt(APMDSEG, dx<<4, (di-1)&0xFFFF, SEGDATA|SEGW|SEGD); addarchfile("apm", 0660, apmread, apmwrite); print("apm0: configured cbase %.8lux off %.8lux\n", ax<<4, ebx); return; } ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C2DAB8.2451E660 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="devcons.c" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="devcons.c" #include "u.h" #include "../port/lib.h" #include "mem.h" #include "dat.h" #include "fns.h" #include "../port/error.h" #include void (*consdebug)(void) =3D nil; void (*screenputs)(char*, int) =3D nil; Queue* kbdq; /* unprocessed console input */ Queue* lineq; /* processed console input */ Queue* serialoq; /* serial console output */ Queue* kprintoq; /* console output, for /dev/kprint */ ulong kprintinuse; /* test and set whether /dev/kprint is open */ int iprintscreenputs =3D 1; static struct { QLock; int raw; /* true if we shouldn't process input */ int ctl; /* number of opens to the control file */ int x; /* index into line */ char line[1024]; /* current input line */ int count; int ctlpoff; /* a place to save up characters at interrupt time before dumping them = in the queue */ Lock lockputc; char istage[512]; char *iw; char *ir; char *ie; } kbd =3D { .iw =3D kbd.istage, .ir =3D kbd.istage, .ie =3D kbd.istage + sizeof(kbd.istage), }; char *sysname; vlong fasthz; static void seedrand(void); static int readtime(ulong, char*, int); static int readbintime(char*, int); static int writetime(char*, int); static int writebintime(char*, int); enum { CMreboot, CMpanic, }; Cmdtab rebootmsg[] =3D { CMreboot, "reboot", 0, CMpanic, "panic", 0, }; void printinit(void) { lineq =3D qopen(2*1024, 0, 0, 0); if(lineq =3D=3D nil) panic("printinit"); qnoblock(lineq, 1); } int consactive(void) { if(serialoq) return qlen(serialoq) > 0; return 0; } void prflush(void) { ulong now; now =3D m->ticks; while(consactive()) if(m->ticks - now >=3D HZ) break; } /* * Print a string on the console. Convert \n to \r\n for serial * line consoles. Locking of the queues is left up to the screen * or uart code. Multi-line messages to serial consoles may get * interspersed with other messages. */ static void putstrn0(char *str, int n, int usewrite) { int m; char *t; /* * if someone is reading /dev/kprint, * put the message there. * if not and there's an attached bit mapped display, * put the message there. * * if there's a serial line being used as a console, * put the message there. */ if(kprintoq !=3D nil && !qisclosed(kprintoq)){ if(usewrite) qwrite(kprintoq, str, n); else qiwrite(kprintoq, str, n); }else if(screenputs !=3D nil) screenputs(str, n); if(serialoq =3D=3D nil){ uartputs(str, n); return; } while(n > 0) { t =3D memchr(str, '\n', n); if(t && !kbd.raw) { m =3D t-str; if(usewrite){ qwrite(serialoq, str, m); qwrite(serialoq, "\r\n", 2); } else { qiwrite(serialoq, str, m); qiwrite(serialoq, "\r\n", 2); } n -=3D m+1; str =3D t+1; } else { if(usewrite) qwrite(serialoq, str, n); else qiwrite(serialoq, str, n); break; } } } void putstrn(char *str, int n) { putstrn0(str, n, 0); } int noprint; int print(char *fmt, ...) { int n; va_list arg; char buf[PRINTSIZE]; if(noprint) return -1; va_start(arg, fmt); n =3D vseprint(buf, buf+sizeof(buf), fmt, arg) - buf; va_end(arg); putstrn(buf, n); return n; } int iprint(char *fmt, ...) { int n, s; va_list arg; char buf[PRINTSIZE]; s =3D splhi(); va_start(arg, fmt); n =3D vseprint(buf, buf+sizeof(buf), fmt, arg) - buf; va_end(arg); if(screenputs !=3D nil && iprintscreenputs) screenputs(buf, n); uartputs(buf, n); splx(s); return n; } void panic(char *fmt, ...) { int n; va_list arg; char buf[PRINTSIZE]; static int panicking; kprintoq =3D nil; /* don't try to write to /dev/kprint */ if(panicking) for(;;); panicking =3D 1; splhi(); strcpy(buf, "panic: "); va_start(arg, fmt); n =3D vseprint(buf+strlen(buf), buf+sizeof(buf), fmt, arg) - buf; va_end(arg); buf[n] =3D '\n'; uartputs(buf, n+1); if(consdebug) (*consdebug)(); spllo(); prflush(); putstrn(buf, n+1); dumpstack(); exit(1); } void _assert(char *fmt) { panic("assert failed: %s", fmt); } int pprint(char *fmt, ...) { int n; Chan *c; va_list arg; char buf[2*PRINTSIZE]; if(up =3D=3D nil || up->fgrp =3D=3D nil) return 0; c =3D up->fgrp->fd[2]; if(c=3D=3D0 || (c->mode!=3DOWRITE && c->mode!=3DORDWR)) return 0; n =3D sprint(buf, "%s %lud: ", up->text, up->pid); va_start(arg, fmt); n =3D vseprint(buf+n, buf+sizeof(buf), fmt, arg) - buf; va_end(arg); if(waserror()) return 0; devtab[c->type]->write(c, buf, n, c->offset); poperror(); lock(c); c->offset +=3D n; unlock(c); return n; } static void echoscreen(char *buf, int n) { char *e, *p; char ebuf[128]; int x; p =3D ebuf; e =3D ebuf + sizeof(ebuf) - 4; while(n-- > 0){ if(p >=3D e){ screenputs(ebuf, p - ebuf); p =3D ebuf; } x =3D *buf++; if(x =3D=3D 0x15){ *p++ =3D '^'; *p++ =3D 'U'; *p++ =3D '\n'; } else *p++ =3D x; } if(p !=3D ebuf) screenputs(ebuf, p - ebuf); } static void echoserialoq(char *buf, int n) { char *e, *p; char ebuf[128]; int x; p =3D ebuf; e =3D ebuf + sizeof(ebuf) - 4; while(n-- > 0){ if(p >=3D e){ qiwrite(serialoq, ebuf, p - ebuf); p =3D ebuf; } x =3D *buf++; if(x =3D=3D '\n'){ *p++ =3D '\r'; *p++ =3D '\n'; } else if(x =3D=3D 0x15){ *p++ =3D '^'; *p++ =3D 'U'; *p++ =3D '\n'; } else *p++ =3D x; } if(p !=3D ebuf) qiwrite(serialoq, ebuf, p - ebuf); } void echo(char *buf, int n) { static int ctrlt, pid; extern ulong etext; int x; char *e, *p; e =3D buf+n; for(p =3D buf; p < e; p++){ switch(*p){ case 0x10: /* ^P */ if(cpuserver && !kbd.ctlpoff){ active.exiting =3D 1; return; }else{ // Poweroff code... poweroff_call(1,3); // All,Poweroff print("APM failed.\n"); } break; case 0x14: /* ^T */ ctrlt++; if(ctrlt > 2) ctrlt =3D 2; continue; } if(ctrlt !=3D 2) continue; /* ^T escapes */ ctrlt =3D 0; switch(*p){ case '5': // Disp. poweroff poweroff_call(0x1ff,3); return; case '6': // Disp. ready poweroff_call(0x1ff,0); return; case 'f': // Check if present print("APM functions present\n"); =09 return; case 'S': x =3D splhi(); dumpstack(); procdump(); splx(x); return; case 's': dumpstack(); return; case 'x': xsummary(); ixsummary(); mallocsummary(); pagersummary(); return; case 'd': if(consdebug =3D=3D nil) consdebug =3D rdb; else consdebug =3D nil; print("consdebug now 0x%p\n", consdebug); return; case 'D': if(consdebug =3D=3D nil) consdebug =3D rdb; consdebug(); return; case 'p': x =3D spllo(); procdump(); splx(x); return; case 'q': scheddump(); return; case 'k': if(!cpuserver) killbig(); return; case 'r': exit(0); return; case 'g': // Poweroff all x =3D splhi(); poweroff_call(1,3); print("APM Failed."); splx(x); return; } } qproduce(kbdq, buf, n); if(kbd.raw) return; if(screenputs !=3D nil) echoscreen(buf, n); if(serialoq) echoserialoq(buf, n); } /* * Called by a uart interrupt for console input. * * turn '\r' into '\n' before putting it into the queue. */ int kbdcr2nl(Queue*, int ch) { char *next; ilock(&kbd.lockputc); /* just a mutex */ if(ch =3D=3D '\r' && !kbd.raw) ch =3D '\n'; next =3D kbd.iw+1; if(next >=3D kbd.ie) next =3D kbd.istage; if(next !=3D kbd.ir){ *kbd.iw =3D ch; kbd.iw =3D next; } iunlock(&kbd.lockputc); return 0; } /* * Put character, possibly a rune, into read queue at interrupt time. * Called at interrupt time to process a character. */ int kbdputc(Queue*, int ch) { int i, n; char buf[3]; Rune r; char *next; if(kbd.ir =3D=3D nil) return 0; /* in case we're not inited yet */ =09 ilock(&kbd.lockputc); /* just a mutex */ r =3D ch; n =3D runetochar(buf, &r); for(i =3D 0; i < n; i++){ next =3D kbd.iw+1; if(next >=3D kbd.ie) next =3D kbd.istage; if(next =3D=3D kbd.ir) break; *kbd.iw =3D buf[i]; kbd.iw =3D next; } iunlock(&kbd.lockputc); return 0; } /* * we save up input characters till clock time to reduce * per character interrupt overhead. */ static void kbdputcclock(void) { char *iw; /* this amortizes cost of qproduce */ if(kbd.iw !=3D kbd.ir){ iw =3D kbd.iw; if(iw < kbd.ir){ echo(kbd.ir, kbd.ie-kbd.ir); kbd.ir =3D kbd.istage; } echo(kbd.ir, iw-kbd.ir); kbd.ir =3D iw; } } enum{ Qdir, Qbintime, Qcons, Qconsctl, Qcputime, Qdrivers, Qkprint, Qhostdomain, Qhostowner, Qnull, Qosversion, Qpgrpid, Qpid, Qppid, Qrandom, Qreboot, Qswap, Qsysname, Qsysstat, Qtime, Quser, Qzero, }; enum { VLNUMSIZE=3D 22, }; static Dirtab consdir[]=3D{ ".", {Qdir, 0, QTDIR}, 0, DMDIR|0555, "bintime", {Qbintime}, 24, 0664, "cons", {Qcons}, 0, 0660, "consctl", {Qconsctl}, 0, 0220, "cputime", {Qcputime}, 6*NUMSIZE, 0444, "drivers", {Qdrivers}, 0, 0444, "hostdomain", {Qhostdomain}, DOMLEN, 0664, "hostowner", {Qhostowner}, 0, 0664, "kprint", {Qkprint, 0, QTEXCL}, 0, DMEXCL|0440, "null", {Qnull}, 0, 0666, "osversion", {Qosversion}, 0, 0444, "pgrpid", {Qpgrpid}, NUMSIZE, 0444, "pid", {Qpid}, NUMSIZE, 0444, "ppid", {Qppid}, NUMSIZE, 0444, "random", {Qrandom}, 0, 0444, "reboot", {Qreboot}, 0, 0664, "swap", {Qswap}, 0, 0664, "sysname", {Qsysname}, 0, 0664, "sysstat", {Qsysstat}, 0, 0666, "time", {Qtime}, NUMSIZE+3*VLNUMSIZE, 0664, "user", {Quser}, 0, 0666, "zero", {Qzero}, 0, 0444, }; int readnum(ulong off, char *buf, ulong n, ulong val, int size) { char tmp[64]; snprint(tmp, sizeof(tmp), "%*.0lud", size-1, val); tmp[size-1] =3D ' '; if(off >=3D size) return 0; if(off+n > size) n =3D size-off; memmove(buf, tmp+off, n); return n; } int readstr(ulong off, char *buf, ulong n, char *str) { int size; size =3D strlen(str); if(off >=3D size) return 0; if(off+n > size) n =3D size-off; memmove(buf, str+off, n); return n; } static void consinit(void) { todinit(); randominit(); addclock0link(kbdputcclock); } static Chan* consattach(char *spec) { return devattach('c', spec); } static Walkqid* conswalk(Chan *c, Chan *nc, char **name, int nname) { return devwalk(c, nc, name,nname, consdir, nelem(consdir), devgen); } static int consstat(Chan *c, uchar *dp, int n) { return devstat(c, dp, n, consdir, nelem(consdir), devgen); } static Chan* consopen(Chan *c, int omode) { c->aux =3D nil; c =3D devopen(c, omode, consdir, nelem(consdir), devgen); switch((ulong)c->qid.path){ case Qconsctl: qlock(&kbd); kbd.ctl++; qunlock(&kbd); break; case Qkprint: if(tas(&kprintinuse) !=3D 0){ c->flag &=3D ~COPEN; error(Einuse); } if(kprintoq =3D=3D nil){ kprintoq =3D qopen(8*1024, -1, 0, 0); if(kprintoq =3D=3D nil){ c->flag &=3D ~COPEN; error(Enomem); } qnoblock(kprintoq, 1); }else qreopen(kprintoq); c->iounit =3D qiomaxatomic; break; } return c; } static void consclose(Chan *c) { switch((ulong)c->qid.path){ /* last close of control file turns off raw */ case Qconsctl: if(c->flag&COPEN){ qlock(&kbd); if(--kbd.ctl =3D=3D 0) kbd.raw =3D 0; qunlock(&kbd); } break; /* close of kprint allows other opens */ case Qkprint: if(c->flag & COPEN){ kprintinuse =3D 0; qhangup(kprintoq, nil); } break; } } static long consread(Chan *c, void *buf, long n, vlong off) { ulong l; Mach *mp; char *b, *bp; char tmp[128]; /* must be >=3D 6*NUMSIZE */ char *cbuf =3D buf; int ch, i, k, id, eol; vlong offset =3D off; if(n <=3D 0) return n; switch((ulong)c->qid.path){ case Qdir: return devdirread(c, buf, n, consdir, nelem(consdir), devgen); case Qcons: qlock(&kbd); if(waserror()) { qunlock(&kbd); nexterror(); } if(kbd.raw) { if(qcanread(lineq)) n =3D qread(lineq, buf, n); else { /* read as much as possible */ do { i =3D qread(kbdq, cbuf, n); cbuf +=3D i; n -=3D i; } while (n>0 && qcanread(kbdq)); n =3D cbuf - (char*)buf; } } else { while(!qcanread(lineq)) { qread(kbdq, &kbd.line[kbd.x], 1); ch =3D kbd.line[kbd.x]; eol =3D 0; switch(ch){ case '\b': if(kbd.x) kbd.x--; break; case 0x15: kbd.x =3D 0; break; case '\n': case 0x04: eol =3D 1; default: kbd.line[kbd.x++] =3D ch; break; } if(kbd.x =3D=3D sizeof(kbd.line) || eol){ if(ch =3D=3D 0x04) kbd.x--; qwrite(lineq, kbd.line, kbd.x); kbd.x =3D 0; } } n =3D qread(lineq, buf, n); } qunlock(&kbd); poperror(); return n; case Qcputime: k =3D offset; if(k >=3D 6*NUMSIZE) return 0; if(k+n > 6*NUMSIZE) n =3D 6*NUMSIZE - k; /* easiest to format in a separate buffer and copy out */ for(i=3D0; i<6 && NUMSIZE*itime[i]; if(i =3D=3D TReal) l =3D MACHP(0)->ticks - l; l =3D TK2MS(l); readnum(0, tmp+NUMSIZE*i, NUMSIZE, l, NUMSIZE); } memmove(buf, tmp+k, n); return n; case Qkprint: return qread(kprintoq, buf, n); case Qpgrpid: return readnum((ulong)offset, buf, n, up->pgrp->pgrpid, NUMSIZE); case Qpid: return readnum((ulong)offset, buf, n, up->pid, NUMSIZE); case Qppid: return readnum((ulong)offset, buf, n, up->parentpid, NUMSIZE); case Qtime: return readtime((ulong)offset, buf, n); case Qbintime: return readbintime(buf, n); case Qhostowner: return readstr((ulong)offset, buf, n, eve); case Qhostdomain: return readstr((ulong)offset, buf, n, hostdomain); case Quser: return readstr((ulong)offset, buf, n, up->user); case Qnull: return 0; case Qsysstat: b =3D smalloc(conf.nmach*(NUMSIZE*8+1) + 1); /* +1 for NUL */ bp =3D b; for(id =3D 0; id < 32; id++) { if(active.machs & (1<cs, NUMSIZE); bp +=3D NUMSIZE; readnum(0, bp, NUMSIZE, mp->intr, NUMSIZE); bp +=3D NUMSIZE; readnum(0, bp, NUMSIZE, mp->syscall, NUMSIZE); bp +=3D NUMSIZE; readnum(0, bp, NUMSIZE, mp->pfault, NUMSIZE); bp +=3D NUMSIZE; readnum(0, bp, NUMSIZE, mp->tlbfault, NUMSIZE); bp +=3D NUMSIZE; readnum(0, bp, NUMSIZE, mp->tlbpurge, NUMSIZE); bp +=3D NUMSIZE; readnum(0, bp, NUMSIZE, mp->load, NUMSIZE); bp +=3D NUMSIZE; *bp++ =3D '\n'; } } if(waserror()){ free(b); nexterror(); } n =3D readstr((ulong)offset, buf, n, b); free(b); poperror(); return n; case Qswap: sprint(tmp, "%lud/%lud memory %lud/%lud swap\n", palloc.user-palloc.freecount, palloc.user, conf.nswap-swapalloc.free, conf.nswap); return readstr((ulong)offset, buf, n, tmp); case Qsysname: if(sysname =3D=3D nil) return 0; return readstr((ulong)offset, buf, n, sysname); case Qrandom: return randomread(buf, n); case Qdrivers: b =3D malloc(READSTR); if(b =3D=3D nil) error(Enomem); n =3D 0; for(i =3D 0; devtab[i] !=3D nil; i++) n +=3D snprint(b+n, READSTR-n, "#%C %s\n", devtab[i]->dc, = devtab[i]->name); if(waserror()){ free(b); nexterror(); } n =3D readstr((ulong)offset, buf, n, b); free(b); poperror(); return n; case Qzero: memset(buf, 0, n); return n; case Qosversion: snprint(tmp, sizeof tmp, "2000"); n =3D readstr((ulong)offset, buf, n, tmp); return n; default: print("consread 0x%llux\n", c->qid.path); error(Egreg); } return -1; /* never reached */ } static long conswrite(Chan *c, void *va, long n, vlong off) { char buf[256]; long l, bp; char *a =3D va; Mach *mp; int id, fd; Chan *swc; ulong offset =3D off; Cmdbuf *cb; Cmdtab *ct; switch((ulong)c->qid.path){ case Qcons: /* * Can't page fault in putstrn, so copy the data locally. */ l =3D n; while(l > 0){ bp =3D l; if(bp > sizeof buf) bp =3D sizeof buf; memmove(buf, a, bp); putstrn0(buf, bp, 1); a +=3D bp; l -=3D bp; } break; case Qconsctl: if(n >=3D sizeof(buf)) n =3D sizeof(buf)-1; strncpy(buf, a, n); buf[n] =3D 0; for(a =3D buf; a;){ if(strncmp(a, "rawon", 5) =3D=3D 0){ qlock(&kbd); if(kbd.x){ qwrite(kbdq, kbd.line, kbd.x); kbd.x =3D 0; } kbd.raw =3D 1; qunlock(&kbd); } else if(strncmp(a, "rawoff", 6) =3D=3D 0){ qlock(&kbd); kbd.raw =3D 0; kbd.x =3D 0; qunlock(&kbd); } else if(strncmp(a, "ctlpon", 6) =3D=3D 0){ kbd.ctlpoff =3D 0; } else if(strncmp(a, "ctlpoff", 7) =3D=3D 0){ kbd.ctlpoff =3D 1; } if(a =3D strchr(a, ' ')) a++; } break; case Qtime: if(!iseve()) error(Eperm); return writetime(a, n); case Qbintime: if(!iseve()) error(Eperm); return writebintime(a, n); case Qhostowner: return hostownerwrite(a, n); case Qhostdomain: return hostdomainwrite(a, n); case Quser: return userwrite(a, n); case Qnull: break; case Qreboot: if(!iseve()) error(Eperm); cb =3D parsecmd(a, n); if(waserror()) { free(cb); nexterror(); } ct =3D lookupcmd(cb, rebootmsg, nelem(rebootmsg)); switch(ct->index) { case CMreboot: rebootcmd(cb->nf-1, cb->f+1); break; case CMpanic: panic("/dev/reboot"); } poperror(); free(cb); break; case Qsysstat: for(id =3D 0; id < 32; id++) { if(active.machs & (1<cs =3D 0; mp->intr =3D 0; mp->syscall =3D 0; mp->pfault =3D 0; mp->tlbfault =3D 0; mp->tlbpurge =3D 0; } } break; case Qswap: if(n >=3D sizeof buf) error(Egreg); memmove(buf, va, n); /* so we can NUL-terminate */ buf[n] =3D 0; /* start a pager if not already started */ if(strncmp(buf, "start", 5) =3D=3D 0){ kickpager(); break; } if(cpuserver && !iseve()) error(Eperm); if(buf[0]<'0' || '9'=3D sizeof buf) error(Ebadarg); strncpy(buf, a, n); buf[n] =3D 0; if(buf[n-1] =3D=3D '\n') buf[n-1] =3D 0; kstrdup(&sysname, buf); break; default: print("conswrite: 0x%llux\n", c->qid.path); error(Egreg); } return n; } Dev consdevtab =3D { 'c', "cons", devreset, consinit, devshutdown, consattach, conswalk, consstat, consopen, devcreate, consclose, consread, devbread, conswrite, devbwrite, devremove, devwstat, }; static ulong randn; static void seedrand(void) { randomread((void*)&randn, sizeof(randn)); } int nrand(int n) { if(randn =3D=3D 0) seedrand(); randn =3D randn*1103515245 + 12345 + MACHP(0)->ticks; return (randn>>16) % n; } int rand(void) { nrand(1); return randn; } static uvlong uvorder =3D 0x0001020304050607ULL; static uchar* le2vlong(vlong *to, uchar *f) { uchar *t, *o; int i; t =3D (uchar*)to; o =3D (uchar*)&uvorder; for(i =3D 0; i < sizeof(vlong); i++) t[o[i]] =3D f[i]; return f+sizeof(vlong); } static uchar* vlong2le(uchar *t, vlong from) { uchar *f, *o; int i; f =3D (uchar*)&from; o =3D (uchar*)&uvorder; for(i =3D 0; i < sizeof(vlong); i++) t[i] =3D f[o[i]]; return t+sizeof(vlong); } static long order =3D 0x00010203; static uchar* le2long(long *to, uchar *f) { uchar *t, *o; int i; t =3D (uchar*)to; o =3D (uchar*)ℴ for(i =3D 0; i < sizeof(long); i++) t[o[i]] =3D f[i]; return f+sizeof(long); } static uchar* long2le(uchar *t, long from) { uchar *f, *o; int i; f =3D (uchar*)&from; o =3D (uchar*)ℴ for(i =3D 0; i < sizeof(long); i++) t[i] =3D f[o[i]]; return t+sizeof(long); } char *Ebadtimectl =3D "bad time control"; /* * like the old #c/time but with added info. Return * * secs nanosecs fastticks fasthz */ static int readtime(ulong off, char *buf, int n) { vlong nsec, ticks; long sec; char str[7*NUMSIZE]; nsec =3D todget(&ticks); if(fasthz =3D=3D 0LL) fastticks((uvlong*)&fasthz); sec =3D nsec/1000000000ULL; snprint(str, sizeof(str), "%*.0lud %*.0llud %*.0llud %*.0llud ", NUMSIZE-1, sec, VLNUMSIZE-1, nsec, VLNUMSIZE-1, ticks, VLNUMSIZE-1, fasthz); return readstr(off, buf, n, str); } /* * set the time in seconds */ static int writetime(char *buf, int n) { char b[13]; long i; vlong now; if(n >=3D sizeof(b)) error(Ebadtimectl); strncpy(b, buf, n); b[n] =3D 0; i =3D strtol(b, 0, 0); if(i <=3D 0) error(Ebadtimectl); now =3D i*1000000000LL; todset(now, 0, 0); return n; } /* * read binary time info. all numbers are little endian. * ticks and nsec are syncronized. */ static int readbintime(char *buf, int n) { int i; vlong nsec, ticks; uchar *b =3D (uchar*)buf; i =3D 0; if(fasthz =3D=3D 0LL) fastticks((uvlong*)&fasthz); nsec =3D todget(&ticks); if(n >=3D 3*sizeof(uvlong)){ vlong2le(b+2*sizeof(uvlong), fasthz); i +=3D sizeof(uvlong); } if(n >=3D 2*sizeof(uvlong)){ vlong2le(b+sizeof(uvlong), ticks); i +=3D sizeof(uvlong); } if(n >=3D 8){ vlong2le(b, nsec); i +=3D sizeof(vlong); } return i; } /* * set any of the following * - time in nsec * - nsec trim applied over some seconds * - clock frequency */ static int writebintime(char *buf, int n) { uchar *p; vlong delta; long period; n--; p =3D (uchar*)buf + 1; switch(*buf){ case 'n': if(n < sizeof(vlong)) error(Ebadtimectl); le2vlong(&delta, p); todset(delta, 0, 0); break; case 'd': if(n < sizeof(vlong)+sizeof(long)) error(Ebadtimectl); p =3D le2vlong(&delta, p); le2long(&period, p); todset(-1, delta, period); break; case 'f': if(n < sizeof(uvlong)) error(Ebadtimectl); le2vlong(&fasthz, p); todsetfreq(fasthz); break; } return n; } ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C2DAB8.2451E660 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="lib.h" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="lib.h" /* * functions (possibly) linked in, complete, from libc. */ /* * APM routines and defines */ #define POWEROFF 0x03 #define SLEEP_DEEP 0x02 #define SLEEP_LIGHT 0x01 #define READY 0x00 #define BIOS 0x00 #define ALL_DEVICES 0x01 #define DISPLAY 0x1ff #define SEC_STORAGE 0x2ff #define PARALE_PORT 0x3ff #define SERIAL_PORT 0x4ff #define NET_ADAPTER 0x5ff #define PCMCIA 0x6ff #define BATTERY 0x80ff void poweroff_call(int,int); /* * mem routines */ extern void* memccpy(void*, void*, int, ulong); extern void* memset(void*, int, ulong); extern int memcmp(void*, void*, ulong); extern void* memmove(void*, void*, ulong); extern void* memchr(void*, int, ulong); int nbattery; int batterystatus; int percent; int time; /* * string routines */ extern char* strcat(char*, char*); extern char* strchr(char*, char); extern char* strrchr(char*, char); extern int strcmp(char*, char*); extern char* strcpy(char*, char*); extern char* strecpy(char*, char*, char*); extern char* strncat(char*, char*, long); extern char* strncpy(char*, char*, long); extern int strncmp(char*, char*, long); extern long strlen(char*); extern char* strstr(char*, char*); extern int atoi(char*); extern int fullrune(char*, int); enum { UTFmax = 3, /* maximum bytes per rune */ Runesync = 0x80, /* cannot represent part of a UTF sequence */ Runeself = 0x80, /* rune and UTF sequences are the same (<) */ Runeerror = 0x80, /* decoding error in UTF */ }; /* * rune routines */ extern int runetochar(char*, Rune*); extern int chartorune(Rune*, char*); extern char* utfrune(char*, long); extern int utflen(char*); extern int runelen(long); extern int abs(int); /* * print routines */ typedef struct Fmt Fmt; typedef int (*Fmts)(Fmt*); struct Fmt{ uchar runes; /* output buffer is runes or chars? */ void *start; /* of buffer */ void *to; /* current place in the buffer */ void *stop; /* end of the buffer; overwritten if flush fails */ int (*flush)(Fmt *); /* called when to == stop */ void *farg; /* to make flush a closure */ int nfmt; /* num chars formatted so far */ va_list args; /* args passed to dofmt */ int r; /* % format Rune */ int width; int prec; ulong flags; }; extern int print(char*, ...); extern char* seprint(char*, char*, char*, ...); extern char* vseprint(char*, char*, char*, va_list); extern int snprint(char*, int, char*, ...); extern int vsnprint(char*, int, char*, va_list); extern int sprint(char*, char*, ...); extern int fmtinstall(int, int (*)(Fmt*)); extern int quotefmtinstall(void); extern int fmtprint(Fmt*, char*, ...); extern int fmtstrcpy(Fmt*, char*); #pragma varargck argpos fmtprint 2 #pragma varargck argpos print 1 #pragma varargck argpos seprint 3 #pragma varargck argpos snprint 3 #pragma varargck argpos sprint 2 /* * one-of-a-kind */ extern char* cleanname(char*); extern ulong getcallerpc(void*); extern long strtol(char*, char**, int); extern ulong strtoul(char*, char**, int); extern vlong strtoll(char*, char**, int); extern uvlong strtoull(char*, char**, int); extern char etext[]; extern char edata[]; extern char end[]; extern int getfields(char*, char**, int, int, char*); extern int tokenize(char*, char**, int); extern int dec64(uchar*, int, char*, int); /* * Syscall data structures */ #define MORDER 0x0003 /* mask for bits defining order of mounting */ #define MREPL 0x0000 /* mount replaces object */ #define MBEFORE 0x0001 /* mount goes before others in union directory */ #define MAFTER 0x0002 /* mount goes after others in union directory */ #define MCREATE 0x0004 /* permit creation in mounted directory */ #define MCACHE 0x0010 /* cache some data */ #define MMASK 0x0017 /* all bits on */ #define OREAD 0 /* open for read */ #define OWRITE 1 /* write */ #define ORDWR 2 /* read and write */ #define OEXEC 3 /* execute, == read but check execute permission */ #define OTRUNC 16 /* or'ed in (except for exec), truncate file first */ #define OCEXEC 32 /* or'ed in, close on exec */ #define ORCLOSE 64 /* or'ed in, remove on close */ #define OEXCL 0x1000 /* or'ed in, exclusive create */ #define NCONT 0 /* continue after note */ #define NDFLT 1 /* terminate after note */ #define NSAVE 2 /* clear note but hold state */ #define NRSTR 3 /* restore saved state */ typedef struct Qid Qid; typedef struct Dir Dir; typedef struct OWaitmsg OWaitmsg; typedef struct Waitmsg Waitmsg; #define ERRMAX 128 /* max length of error string */ #define KNAMELEN 28 /* max length of name held in kernel */ /* bits in Qid.type */ #define QTDIR 0x80 /* type bit for directories */ #define QTAPPEND 0x40 /* type bit for append only files */ #define QTEXCL 0x20 /* type bit for exclusive use files */ #define QTMOUNT 0x10 /* type bit for mounted channel */ #define QTAUTH 0x08 /* type bit for authentication file */ #define QTFILE 0x00 /* plain file */ /* bits in Dir.mode */ #define DMDIR 0x80000000 /* mode bit for directories */ #define DMAPPEND 0x40000000 /* mode bit for append only files */ #define DMEXCL 0x20000000 /* mode bit for exclusive use files */ #define DMMOUNT 0x10000000 /* mode bit for mounted channel */ #define DMREAD 0x4 /* mode bit for read permission */ #define DMWRITE 0x2 /* mode bit for write permission */ #define DMEXEC 0x1 /* mode bit for execute permission */ struct Qid { vlong path; ulong vers; uchar type; }; struct Dir { /* system-modified data */ ushort type; /* server type */ uint dev; /* server subtype */ /* file data */ Qid qid; /* unique id from server */ ulong mode; /* permissions */ ulong atime; /* last read time */ ulong mtime; /* last write time */ vlong length; /* file length: see */ char *name; /* last element of path */ char *uid; /* owner name */ char *gid; /* group name */ char *muid; /* last modifier name */ }; struct OWaitmsg { char pid[12]; /* of loved one */ char time[3*12]; /* of loved one and descendants */ char msg[64]; /* compatibility BUG */ }; struct Waitmsg { int pid; /* of loved one */ ulong time[3]; /* of loved one and descendants */ char msg[ERRMAX]; /* actually variable-size in user mode */ }; ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C2DAB8.2451E660-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 23 06:52:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 23 06:52:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5666 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Feb 2003 06:52:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5662 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2003 06:52:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Feb 2003 06:52:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CAFAF19ABF; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 16:52:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0922A19A8F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 16:51:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sat Feb 22 16:51:13 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Sat Feb 22 16:51:10 EST 2003 Message-ID: <0610ae68d7966ee68ba2033283925411@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Apm Enhancement + some bonuses From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <000001c2daaf$c28d7e60$f7e84dd5@makr4j0ty5i9an> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 16:51:16 -0500 ^t^t is an ugly hack -- it doesn't need more letters. there are ways to provide everything you added without going into the kernel. because ^p currently does nothing on terminals, we can sit at terminals, connect to the consoles of cpu servers, and reboot them by typing ^p. changing ^p to have a magic meaning on terminals will break that behavior, hence it won't happen. i'm still sorry that ^p kills drawterm. as you noted, you can get aux/apm to let you turn things off by uncommenting /* else if(strcmp(p, "off")==0) respondx(r, apmsetpowerstate(&apm, dev, PowerOff)); */ in /sys/src/cmd/aux/apm.c. once you've done that, you don't need ^t^t 5 or ^t^t 6 to turn the screen on and off. you don't need ^t^t g: ^t^t r already reboots both cpu servers and terminals. you are right that you can't run disk/kfscmd halt echo off >/mnt/apm/ctl but you could easily write a program to halt the file system and then turn off the machine: #!/bin/python import plan9 # open both kfd = plan9.open("/srv/kfs.cmd", plan9.ORDWR) cfd = plan9.open("/mnt/apm/ctl", plan9.OWRITE) # halt kfs plan9.write(kfd, "halt") while 1: s = plan9.read(kfd) if s == "done" || s == "success": break plan9.write(1, s) # turn off system plan9.write(cfd, "off") russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 23 11:04:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 23 11:04:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8882 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Feb 2003 11:04:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8878 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2003 11:04:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Feb 2003 11:04:36 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E970319AC9; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 21:04:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE77519AC1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 21:03:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h1N236io014838 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 18:03:13 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Apm Enhancement + some bonuses From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: <000001c2daaf$c28d7e60$f7e84dd5@makr4j0ty5i9an> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 18:13:10 -0800 > I wrote a (ugly) enhancement to the plan9 kernel that allows users using > workstations I know of nothing that is enhanced by ugliness, except maybe coyote-ugly. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 23 11:05:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 23 11:05:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8895 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Feb 2003 11:05:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8891 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2003 11:05:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Feb 2003 11:05:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3A47019ACE; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 21:05:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from riecilla.sotol.org (adsl-208-190-152-201.dsl.austtx.swbell.net [208.190.152.201]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 193B419ACA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 21:04:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from linuxlink.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by riecilla.sotol.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 146AC8A2AF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 19:57:44 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3E582A97.5080200@linuxlink.com> From: mike User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20030211 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ready.gov parody References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.71.0.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 19:57:43 -0600 Oh, now... Wait a minute. LOL Russ Cox wrote: > the whole site is funny and completely off-topic, > but this one seemed particularly appropriate for 9fans. > > http://www.idlewords.com/radiation.html > > > -- Michael H. Collins http://linuxlink.com 512-442-2009 512-656-9508 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 23 11:08:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 23 11:08:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8954 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Feb 2003 11:08:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8950 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2003 11:08:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Feb 2003 11:08:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0A22819AD1; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 21:08:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6138B19AC1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 21:07:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h1N274io022287 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 18:07:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A quite amusing thing... From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: <000601c2daa7$17972450$270363d9@makr4j0ty5i9an> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 18:16:56 -0800 > Hmm... It is possible too that Amoeba developer's have copied this code > but I doubt it. They would have done well to imitate, or "borrow" code for such greats as Plan9's developers. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I think Plan9's developers should be flattered. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 23 13:08:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 23 13:08:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10623 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Feb 2003 13:08:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10619 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2003 13:08:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Feb 2003 13:08:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 82DAF19AC7; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 23:08:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from henry.sockfarm.net (adsl-98-118.bway.net [216.220.98.118]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 420C91999B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 23:07:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A quite amusing thing... From: "John Packer" In-Reply-To: <000601c2daa7$17972450$270363d9@makr4j0ty5i9an> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 22:53:45 -0500 > Hmm... It is possible too that Amoeba developer's have copied this code > but I doubt it. You were joking, right? It is telling that the comment uses the 8a assembler instructions MOVL, AAM, and LOOP: /* * measure time for the loop * * MOVL loops,CX * aaml1: AAM * LOOP aaml1 * * the time for the loop should be independent of external * cache and memory system since it fits in theexecution * prefetch buffer. * */ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 23 14:00:54 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 23 14:00:54 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11338 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Feb 2003 14:00:53 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11334 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2003 14:00:53 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Feb 2003 14:00:53 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 22A8E19981; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 00:00:40 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 17DDF1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 23:59:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07976 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 23:59:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1N4x7M23821 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 23:59:07 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302230459.h1N4x7M23821@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Apm Enhancement + some bonuses In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 22 Feb 2003 18:13:10 PST." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 23:59:07 -0500 > I know of nothing that is enhanced by ugliness, except maybe coyote-ugly. No. That place is a disgusting tourist trap that tries too hard. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 23 14:21:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 23 14:21:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11742 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Feb 2003 14:21:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11738 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2003 14:21:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Feb 2003 14:21:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 29095199F2; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 00:21:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CF8A319980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 00:20:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h1N5JXt06081 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 00:19:33 -0500 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] cisco aironet 350 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 00:19:33 -0500 (EST) Anyone got one of these working yet? pcmcia, air-pcm352 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 23 14:29:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 23 14:29:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11845 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Feb 2003 14:29:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11841 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2003 14:29:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Feb 2003 14:29:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 81A1F199D5; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 00:29:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5BFF719980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 00:28:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 14:29:56 +0900 It'll start to dispatch from March 1, and it's too late for mr this time. I'll consider it for my regular presentation tool to our students from the next semester... It has very affordable listprice, too.☺ Kenji -- yes, I'm working even at Sunday From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 23 15:12:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 23 15:12:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12581 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Feb 2003 15:12:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12577 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2003 15:12:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Feb 2003 15:12:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 443D819A04; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 01:12:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailhost.det3.ameritech.net (mailhost2-sfldmi.sfldmi.ameritech.net [206.141.193.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 24BCF199EE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 01:11:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from ameritech.net ([67.38.11.69]) by mailhost.det3.ameritech.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with ESMTP id <20030223061103.XHBF176.mailhost.det3.ameritech.net@ameritech.net> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 01:11:03 -0500 Message-ID: <3E5865CA.7060105@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A quite amusing thing... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 01:10:18 -0500 > > >It is telling that the comment uses the 8a assembler instructions >MOVL, AAM, and LOOP: > MOVL, AAM and LOOP are all standard Intel CPU mnemonics Don > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 23 15:40:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 23 15:40:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12934 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Feb 2003 15:40:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12930 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2003 15:40:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Feb 2003 15:40:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 57A7319A06; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 01:40:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from igw2.watson.ibm.com (igw2.watson.ibm.com [129.34.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A31B519A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 01:39:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from sp1n293en1.watson.ibm.com (sp1n293en1.watson.ibm.com [9.2.112.57]) by igw2.watson.ibm.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id h1N6dRj06240; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 01:39:27 -0500 Received: from huxley.watson.ibm.com (huxley.watson.ibm.com [9.2.16.94]) by sp1n293en1.watson.ibm.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id h1N6dRV55218; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 01:39:27 -0500 Received: from huxley.watson.ibm.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by huxley.watson.ibm.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 043E9F222; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 01:14:21 -0500 (EST) From: Leendert van Doorn To: Peter Bosch Cc: philw@entrisphere.com, 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 22 Feb 2003 16:11:44 EST." <2ba8f07c025d45604e247b27a02d4123@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-Id: <20030223061422.043E9F222@huxley.watson.ibm.com> Subject: [9fans] (no subject) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 01:14:21 -0500 I was indeed an intern but in 1995, I was also the author of the x86 port of Amoeba and wrote that timer code around 1990. My code never contained the offending cpuspeed routine. In fact, I just looked at the RCS repository that still exists at the VU and it isn't in there either. Who ever added cpuspeed to this file, it was not one of the VU Amoeba developers. Leendert # From: philw@entrisphere.com # Date: Sat Feb 22 15:35:26 EST 2003 # To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu # Subject: RE: [9fans] A quite amusing thing... # # # Leendert van Doorn was a summer student at the labs that year I think # # phil # # -----Original Message----- # From: Russ Cox [mailto:rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com] # Sent: Sat 2/22/2003 12:30 PM # To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu # Cc: # Subject: Re: [9fans] A quite amusing thing... # # # # That _is_ fairly amusing. # # We've had a form of that code (including the big # comment) in our source tree since July 15, 1994. # But the 1994 code didn't have the for loop to run # until loops got big enough (it assumed 10000 was # enough) and it didn't have all the clock frequency # stuff (which got added later). # # So either Plan 9 copied Amoeba back in 1994 (before # the original project was terminated) and has been # secretly tracking the code since then, or Amoeba copied # Plan 9 some time later after the code was changed to # look more like it does today. I know where my money is. # # Also, I downloaded the original Amoeba code and the # pit.c looked nothing like the Plan 9 code as of 1996. # # Below you'll find Plan 9's clock.c from 1994, Amoeba's # pit.c from 1996, and Amoeba's pit.c from today. # Note the difference between the last two. Sure looks like # # * Stefan Bosse (12/1999-7/2000) # * sbosse@physik.uni-bremen.de # * # * -> pit_hw_milli now default routine with 1ms resolution # * -> cpuspeed measurement and delay loop reference # # copied the Plan 9 code. # # > Hmm... It is possible too that Amoeba developer's have copied this co de # > but I doubt it. # # Why? # # Russ # # /* --rw-rw-r-- M 3014 jmk sys 2766 Jul 15 1994 sys/src/brazil/pc/clock .c */ # # void # clockinit(void) # { # ulong x, y; /* change in counter */ # ulong cycles, loops; # # /* # * set vector for clock interrupts # */ # setvec(Clockvec, clock, 0); # # /* # * set clock for 1/HZ seconds # */ # outb(Tmode, Load0|Square); # outb(T0cntr, (Freq/HZ)); /* low byte */ # outb(T0cntr, (Freq/HZ)>>8); /* high byte */ # # /* # * measure time for the loop # * # * MOVL loops,CX # * aaml1: AAM # * LOOP aaml1 # * # * the time for the loop should be independent from external # * cache's and memory system since it fits in the execution # * prefetch buffer. # * # */ # loops = 10000; # outb(Tmode, Latch0); # x = inb(T0cntr); # x |= inb(T0cntr)<<8; # aamloop(loops); # outb(Tmode, Latch0); # y = inb(T0cntr); # y |= inb(T0cntr)<<8; # x -= y; # # /* # * counter goes at twice the frequency, once per transition, # * i.e., twice per the square wave # */ # x >>= 1; # # /* # * figure out clock frequency and a loop multiplier for delay( ). # */ # switch(cputype = x86()){ # case 386: # cycles = 30; # break; # case 486: # cycles = 24; # break; # default: # cycles = 23; # break; # } # cpufreq = (cycles*loops) * (Freq/x); # loopconst = (cpufreq/1000)/cycles; /* AAM+LOOP's for 1 ms */ # } # # # /* @(#)pit.c 1.4 94/04/06 09:23:12 */ # /* # * Copyright 1994 Vrije Universiteit, The Netherlands. # * For full copyright and restrictions on use see the file COPYRIGHT in the # * top level of the Amoeba distribution. # */ # # /* # * pit.c # * # * Driver for the 8254 timer (PIT). The i8254 timer has three timer cha nnels # * of which only one (channel 0) is available for timer interrupts. The other # * channels are used for the speaker and memory refresh. # * # * Author: # * Leendert van Doorn # */ # #include # #include # INIT_ASSERT # #include # #include # #include "sys/proto.h" # #include "i386_proto.h" # #include "pit.h" # # #ifndef PIT_DEBUG # #define PIT_DEBUG 0 # #endif # # static int pit_debug; /* current debug level */ # # #ifdef notyet # static uint32 pit_hw_milli(); # #endif # static void pit_intr(); # # /* # * Initialize channel 0 of the i8254A timer # */ # void # pit_init() # { # register uint32 counter = (PIT_FREQ * PIT_INTERVAL) / 1000L; # # #ifndef NDEBUG # if ((pit_debug = kernel_option("pit")) == 0) # pit_debug = PIT_DEBUG; # if (pit_debug > 1) # printf("pit_init(), pit_interval = 0x%x (%d), counter = %x\n", # PIT_INTERVAL, PIT_INTERVAL, counter); # #endif # # /* set timer to run continuously */ # assert(counter <= 0xFFFF); # out_byte(PIT_MODE, PIT_MODE3); # out_byte(PIT_CH0, (int) (counter & 0xFF)); # out_byte(PIT_CH0, (int) ((counter >> 8) & 0xFF)); # # #ifdef notyet # /* I still have to thoroughly test this */ # set_hw_milli(pit_hw_milli); # #endif # # setirq(PIT_IRQ, pit_intr); # pic_enable(PIT_IRQ); # } # # /* # * Read i8254's channel 0 counter. The counter decrements at twice the # * timer frequency (one full cycle for each half of a square wave). # */ # uint16 # pit_channel0() # { # register uint16 counter; # # out_byte(PIT_MODE, PIT_LC); # counter = in_byte(PIT_CH0), counter |= (in_byte(PIT_CH0) << 8); # return counter; # } # # /* # * Delay for at least ``msec'' milli seconds # */ # void # pit_delay(msec) # int msec; # { # register uint16 current, previous, diff; # register uint32 total; # # /* # * The counter decrements at twice the timer frequency # * (one full cycle for each half of a square wave). # */ # diff = 100; /* just in case */ # total = (uint32) msec * (2 * PIT_FREQ / 1000); # previous = pit_channel0(); # for (;;) { # current = pit_channel0(); # if (current < previous) # diff = previous - current; # if (diff >= total) # break; # total -= diff; # previous = current; # } # } # # #ifdef notyet # /* # * Return number of actual milli-seconds that have passed # */ # static uint32 # pit_hw_milli() # { # extern uint32 milli_uptime; # register uint32 milli; # register int flags; # uint16 counter; # int status; # # flags = get_flags(); disable(); # out_byte(PIT_MODE, PIT_RB); # out_byte(PIT_MODE, 0xC2); # status = in_byte(PIT_CH0); # counter = in_byte(PIT_CH0), counter |= (in_byte(PIT_CH0) << 8); # milli = milli_uptime + (PIT_INTERVAL / 2) * # (counter / (PIT_FREQ * PIT_INTERVAL) / 1000L); # if ((status & 0x80) == 0) milli += PIT_INTERVAL/2; # set_flags(flags); # return milli; # } # #endif # # /* # * The actual clock interrupt # */ # /* ARGSUSED */ # static void # pit_intr(reason, frame) # int reason; # struct fault *frame; # { # void sweeper_run(); # void flp_motoroff(); # extern int motortime; # # #ifdef MCA # /* ps/2 clock needs to be told to stop interrupting */ # out_byte(0x61, in_byte(0x61) | 0x80); # #endif # # enqueue(sweeper_run, (long) PIT_INTERVAL); # # #if (defined(ISA) || defined(MCA)) && !defined(NOFLOPPY) # /* stop running floppy motor */ # if (motortime != 0 && --motortime == 0) # flp_motoroff(); # #endif # } # # # /* # * This file is part of the FIREBALL AMOEBA System. # * # * # * Last modified: # * 18/02/01 # * # * Stefan Bosse (12/1999-7/2000) # * sbosse@physik.uni-bremen.de # * # * -> pit_hw_milli now default routine with 1ms resolution # * -> cpuspeed measurement and delay loop reference # * # * # * # * FIREBALL AMOEBA is free software; you can redistribute it and/or # * modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as # * published by the Free Software Foundation; version 2. # * # * The FIREBALL AMOEBA is distributed in the hope that it will be usefu ll, # * but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even implied warranty of # * MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU # * General Public License for more details. # * # * Original Copyright: Vrije Universiteit, The Netherlands. # */ # # # # # /* # * pit.c # * # * Driver for the 8254 timer (PIT). The i8254 timer has three timer cha nnels # * of which only one (channel 0) is available for timer interrupts. The other # * channels are used for the speaker and memory refresh. # * # * Author: # * Leendert van Doorn # */ # # # #include # #include # INIT_ASSERT # #include # #include # #include "sys/proto.h" # #include "i386_proto.h" # #include # #include "pit.h" # #include # # #ifndef PIT_DEBUG # #define PIT_DEBUG 0 # #endif # # #ifdef STATISTICS # static unsigned long pit_hw_milli_count=0; # static unsigned long pit_hw_milli_wrap1=0; # static unsigned long pit_hw_milli_wrap2=0; # static unsigned long pit_delay_count=0; # #endif # # static int pit_debug; /* current debug level */ # static int initialized=0; # # #ifdef PIT_HW_MILLI # static uint32 pit_hw_milli(); # #endif # static void pit_intr(); # # /* # * milli_uptime will be incremented in sweeper_run, but it's delayed # * because of enqueue() handling. # * milli_uptime should be handled ***here***. # * Hack: Local we use timer_ticks for pit_hw_milli(), incremented in lo w # * level ISR below... # */ # unsigned long timer_ticks=0; # # /* for time monotony checking; we have a serious problem with # * this faulty timer hardware # */ # static unsigned long last_time=0; # # /* # * Initialize channel 0 of the i8254A timer # */ # void # pit_init() # { # register uint32 counter = (PIT_FREQ * PIT_INTERVAL) / 1000L; # # # if(!initialized) # { # # initialized=1; # #ifndef NDEBUG # if ((pit_debug = kernel_option("pit")) == 0) # pit_debug = PIT_DEBUG; # if (pit_debug > 1) # printf("pit_init(), pit_interval = 0x%x (%d), counter = %x\n", # PIT_INTERVAL, PIT_INTERVAL, counter); # #endif # # /* set timer to run continuously */ # assert(counter <= 0xFFFF); # # if(check_region(PIT_CH0,4)<0) # panic("Some fool allocated timer ports"); # request_region(PIT_CH0,4,"PIT"); # # out_byte(PIT_MODE, PIT_MODE2); # # out_byte(PIT_CH0, (int) (counter & 0xFF)); # out_byte(PIT_CH0, (int) ((counter >> 8) & 0xFF)); # # #ifdef PIT_HW_MILLI # /* I still have to thoroughly test this */ # /* SB: still timer wrap problems; but time monotonie is gurante ed */ # set_hw_milli(pit_hw_milli); # #endif # # if(request_irq(PIT_IRQ, # pit_intr, # SA_NORMAL, # "PIT", # (void *)NULL)!=0) # panic("Some fool allocated timer irq"); # # enable_irq(PIT_IRQ); # /*pic_enable(PIT_IRQ);*/ # } # } # # /* # * Read i8254's channel 0 counter. The counter decrements at twice the # * timer frequency (one full cycle for each half of a square wave). # */ # uint16 # pit_channel0() # { # register uint16 counter; # unsigned long flags; # # save_flags(flags);cli(); # out_byte(PIT_MODE, PIT_LC); # counter = in_byte(PIT_CH0), counter |= (in_byte(PIT_CH0) << 8); # restore_flags(flags); # return counter; # } # # /* # * Delay for at least ``msec'' milli seconds # */ # void # pit_delay(msec) # int msec; # { # register uint16 current, previous, diff; # register uint32 total; # # # #ifdef STATISTICS # pit_delay_count++; # #endif # /* # * The counter decrements at twice the timer frequency # * (one full cycle for each half of a square wave). # */ # diff = 100; /* just in case */ # total = (uint32) msec * (PIT_FREQ / 1000); # previous = pit_channel0(); # for (;;) { # current = pit_channel0(); # if (current < previous) # diff = previous - current; # if (diff >= total) # break; # total -= diff; # previous = current; # } # } # # # #ifdef PIT_HW_MILLI # /* # * Return number of actual milli-seconds that have passed # */ # static uint32 # pit_hw_milli() # { # extern uint32 milli_uptime; # register uint32 milli; # uint16 counter,counter2; # int status,status2; # unsigned long flags; # unsigned long ticks=timer_ticks; # # # # #ifdef STATISTICS # pit_hw_milli_count++; # #endif # # save_flags(flags);cli(); # /* Select timer0 and latch counter value. */ # out_byte(PIT_MODE,PIT_LC); # counter = in_byte(PIT_CH0), counter |= (in_byte(PIT_CH0) << 8); # restore_flags(flags); # # milli = timer_ticks*PIT_INTERVAL + # (1000*(((PIT_FREQ*PIT_INTERVAL)/1000) - counter )/(PIT_FREQ) ); # # # /* check time monotony */ # if(milli PIT_FREQ/(3*PIT_HZ)) # break; # } # # /* # * figure out clock frequency and a loop multiplier for delay( ). # * n.b. counter goes up by 2*PIT_FREQ # */ # cpufreq = loops*((aalcycles*PIT_FREQ)/x); # cpu.loopconst = (cpufreq/1000)/aalcycles; /* AAM+LOOP's for 1ms */ # # /* check aalcycle value */ # if(kernel_option("cud") == 1) # printf("cpuspeed: aalcycle MHz=%d\n", # (cpufreq + cpufreq/200)/1000000); # # if(havecycleclock){ # # # if(dx2 == dx1) # b = (ax2-ax1); # else /* counter wrap */ # b = (ax2+0xffffffff-ax1); # # b /= x; # b *= PIT_FREQ; # # # /* # * round to the nearest megahz # */ # cpu.cpumhz = (b+500000)/1000000L; # cpu.cpuhz = b; # } else { # /* # * add in possible 0.5% error and convert to MHz # */ # cpu.cpumhz = (cpufreq + cpufreq/200)/1000000; # cpu.cpuhz = cpufreq; # } # # # } # # # # # ===> 2/ (multipart/mixed) [inline] # # # The following attachment had content that we can't # prove to be harmless. To avoid possible automatic # execution, we changed the content headers. # The original header was: # # Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; # name="winmail.dat" # Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 # # ===> 2/2/ (application/octet-stream) [file] # cp /mail/fs/mbox/68/2/2/body /usr/pb/winmail.dat.suspect # -- Leendert van Doorn IBM T.J. Watson Research Center (914) 784-7831 30 Saw Mill River Road, Hawthorne, NY 10532 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 23 16:17:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 23 16:17:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13413 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Feb 2003 16:17:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13409 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2003 16:17:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Feb 2003 16:17:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8262D19A27; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 02:17:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from hushmail.com (unknown [196.31.64.230]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 141CA19A31 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 02:16:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3c0ee091bece$d8b0a559$4ffb4aca@fjao.hebw> From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_4A6_C6C4_02A2AD45.52541070" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 Subject: [9fans] look great 6080rfIC8-202MiXY9272vCBZ-24 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 11:30:08 -0400 ------=_NextPart_4A6_C6C4_02A2AD45.52541070 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ------=_NextPart_4A6_C6C4_02A2AD45.52541070 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWw+DQo8aGVhZD4NCjx0aXRsZT48IXltPkhHPCFxc2Zjb3JsPkggMTAw MDwvdGl0bGU+DQo8bWV0YSBodHRwLWVxdWl2PSJDb250ZW50LVR5cGUiIGNv bnRlbnQ9InRleHQvaHRtbDsgY2hhcnNldD1pc28tODg1OS0xIj4NCjwvaGVh ZD4NCg0KDQo8YnI+RlI8IXltPkVFIDMwIGRheSBzdXBwbHkgb2YgSEc8IW1x eHN2a3h3cG0+SCAxMDAwOiBMb29rIFlvdW5nZXIgYW5kIExvc2UgVzwhYXNp d254eHR4dnVrPmVpZ2h0IGluIDMgV2Vla3MhISEhDQo8YnI+DQo8YnI+PGEg aHJlZj0iaHR0cDovLzY0LjgzLjExMi41NC9odW1hbi9pbmRleC5waHA/c2hv dz1tYWluJmlkPTQxMyIgdGFyZ2V0PSJfYmxhbmsiPlZpc2l0IE91ciBTaXQ8 IWZmZGN4Y3VsdXJkcGt5PmU8L2E+DQo8YnI+DQo8YnI+QXMgc2VlbiBvbiBO QkMsIENCUywgQ05OLCBhbmQgTzwhZGVwZGdneHU+cHJhaCEgVGhlIGhlYWx0 aCBkaXNjb3ZlcnkNCjxicj50aGF0IGFjdHVhbGx5IHJldmVyc2VzIGFnaW5n IHdoaWxlIGJ1cm48IXBwaWl5bGhnPmluZyBmYXQsIHdpdGhvdXQNCjxicj5k aWV0aW5nIG9yIGV4ZXI8IXlibWt2cng+Y2lzZSEgVGhpcyBwcm92ZW4gZGlz Y292ZXJ5IGhhcyBiZWVuIHJlcG9ydGVkDQo8YnI+b24gYnkgdGhlIE5ldyBF bmdsYW5kIEpvdXJuYWwgb2YgTWVkPCFpcGFybGJucWpiZGU+aWNpbmUuIEZv cmdldCBhZ2luZyBhbmQNCjxicj5kaWV0aW5nIGZvcmV2ZXIhICBBbmQgaXQn cyBHdWFyYW48IXFzZmNvcmw+dGVlZCENCjxicj4NCjxicj4gICAgICAgICAg ICAgQ2hhbmdlIHlvdXIgbGlmZSBmb3JldjwheW0+ZXIhDQo8YnI+DQo8YnI+ ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgMTAwJSBHVUFSQU48IW1xeHN2a3h3cG0+VEVF RA0KPGJyPg0KPGJyPjxhIGhyZWY9Imh0dHA6Ly82NC44My4xMTIuNTQvaHVt YW4vaW5kZXgucGhwP3Nob3c9bWFpbiZpZD00MTMiIHRhcmdldD0iX2JsYW5r Ij5WaTwhYXNpd254eHR4dnVrPnNpdCBPdXIgU2l0ZTwvYT4NCg0KICA8L2Zv bnQ+PC9wPg0KPGltZyBzcmM9Imh0dHA6Ly93d3cucXVpY2tsaW5rLmJ6L3Nt ZXYvdi9lLnBocD9lPTlmYW5zQGNzZS5wc3UuZWR1DQoiPjwhZGVwZGdneHUN CjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4= ------=_NextPart_4A6_C6C4_02A2AD45.52541070-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 23 16:36:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 23 16:36:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13653 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Feb 2003 16:36:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13649 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2003 16:36:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Feb 2003 16:36:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 29D5019A1C; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 02:36:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 45FEC19A1C for <9fans@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 02:35:37 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 1364 invoked by uid 991); 23 Feb 2003 07:35:37 -0000 Message-ID: <20030223073537.1363.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> From: "Scott Schwartz" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] spam avoidance Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 23 Feb 2003 02:35:37 -0500 I'm thinking, once again, that we should set the list to only allow postings from subscribers. Some people read via local exploders, or usenet. I think it's worth breaking that in order to avoid a bunch of obvious spam. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 23 17:00:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 23 17:00:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13971 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Feb 2003 17:00:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13967 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2003 17:00:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Feb 2003 17:00:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 895D619A2D; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 03:00:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail500.nifty.com (mail500.nifty.com [202.248.37.208]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C1CCA19A26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 02:59:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (eatkyo900071.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp [210.229.24.71]) by mail500.nifty.com with ESMTP id h1N7x0mZ013318 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 16:59:00 +0900 Subject: Re: [9fans] Drawterm on MacOS X; weird colormap? Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=Apple-Mail-1--1039536910 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v482) From: Moroo Jun To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: <200302221702.h1MH2OM21041@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.482) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 16:58:59 +0900 --Apple-Mail-1--1039536910 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > it, it comes back. I do notice that, with your fix, when I try to page > an image (say, a jpg), the RGB values are again mixed up. When I try > page with the older version of drawterm, page displays the jpg > correctly. I made new patch. Please apply this for original drawterm. But this patch has 'sam' problem yet. Also 'page' pop up menu. --Apple-Mail-1--1039536910 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=patch Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: application/octet-stream; x-unix-mode=0644; name="patch" *** drawtermorg/devip-unix.c Wed May 22 14:57:07 2002 --- drawterm/devip-unix.c Fri Feb 21 22:56:49 2003 *************** *** 4,9 **** --- 4,10 ---- #include #include #include + #include #include "lib9.h" #include "sys.h" *** drawtermorg/mkfile Sat Apr 27 01:51:09 2002 --- drawterm/mkfile Fri Feb 21 22:55:13 2003 *************** *** 1,5 **** #CONF=FreeBSD ! #CONF=FreeBSD-power # MAC OSX #CONF=Irix #CONF=Linux #CONF=OSF1 --- 1,5 ---- #CONF=FreeBSD ! CONF=FreeBSD-power # MAC OSX #CONF=Irix #CONF=Linux #CONF=OSF1 *** drawtermorg/libmemdraw/draw.c Tue Jul 25 10:23:47 2000 --- drawterm/libmemdraw/draw.c Sun Feb 23 16:46:02 2003 *************** *** 1994,2000 **** if(val == DNofill) return; ! bits = _rgbatoimg(i, val); switch(i->depth){ case 24: /* 24-bit images suck */ for(y=i->r.min.y; yr.max.y; y++) --- 1994,2007 ---- if(val == DNofill) return; ! if (i->depth == 32) { ! bits = val; ! bits &= 0x00FF00FF; ! bits |= (val << 16) & 0xFF000000; ! bits |= (val >> 16) & 0x0000FF00; ! } else { ! bits = _rgbatoimg(i, val); ! } switch(i->depth){ case 24: /* 24-bit images suck */ for(y=i->r.min.y; yr.max.y; y++) --Apple-Mail-1--1039536910-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 23 17:45:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 23 17:45:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14658 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Feb 2003 17:45:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14654 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2003 17:45:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Feb 2003 17:45:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7212219A60; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 03:45:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from henry.sockfarm.net (adsl-98-118.bway.net [216.220.98.118]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 15C5D19A33 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 03:44:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4f173e22dcb83dfecbce49b100bf1098@sockfarm.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A quite amusing thing... From: "John Packer" In-Reply-To: <3E5865CA.7060105@ameritech.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-wevjheopbiqzmtofwuvyouofyy" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 03:30:47 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-wevjheopbiqzmtofwuvyouofyy Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Don't you mean movl, aam, and loop (lowercase)? --upas-wevjheopbiqzmtofwuvyouofyy Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from localhost (john@localhost.alpha.sockfarm.net [127.0.0.1]) by alpha.sockfarm.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h1N46U2c003595 for ; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 23:06:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from ida.bway.net [216.220.96.4] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.6) for john@localhost (single-drop); Sat, 22 Feb 2003 23:06:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by ida.bway.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h1N6CJR32464 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 01:12:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5CE09199EE; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 01:12:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailhost.det3.ameritech.net (mailhost2-sfldmi.sfldmi.ameritech.net [206.141.193.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 24BCF199EE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 01:11:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from ameritech.net ([67.38.11.69]) by mailhost.det3.ameritech.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with ESMTP id <20030223061103.XHBF176.mailhost.det3.ameritech.net@ameritech.net> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 01:11:03 -0500 Message-ID: <3E5865CA.7060105@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A quite amusing thing... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 01:10:18 -0500 > > >It is telling that the comment uses the 8a assembler instructions >MOVL, AAM, and LOOP: > MOVL, AAM and LOOP are all standard Intel CPU mnemonics Don > --upas-wevjheopbiqzmtofwuvyouofyy-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 23 20:14:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 23 20:14:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17097 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Feb 2003 20:14:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17093 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2003 20:14:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Feb 2003 20:14:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 88C0919A84; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 06:14:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from workbench.borf.com (borf.com [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 89A2C19A28 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 06:13:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3b199536c54bb03849c9576669651fd0@coraid.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: bwc@coraid.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Not the first time... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 06:15:53 -0500 ...something from Plan 9 has found it's way into other folks code. I used a copy of print.c I got from somewhere in the original PIX code. I put a comment in it saying it was from Bell Labs. I would assme I'm not the only one to borrow print.c. Brantley Coile From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 23 20:46:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 23 20:46:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17531 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Feb 2003 20:46:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17527 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2003 20:46:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Feb 2003 20:46:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C28219A82; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 06:46:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C8C819A70 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 06:45:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1NBjTmt025335 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:45:30 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h1NBjN0A025334 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:45:23 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <20030223134517.Z15898@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us Organization: Proxima Research & Development Subject: [9fans] "part 772" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:45:19 +0200 I actually got curious and clicked on the "part 772" link in the document. The results were definitely not encouraging :-) this database not listed in database.lst [bxa] docid-> f:772.wais IPaddress-> dbname-> 2003 I imagine that few need the information, but there may be some that do, maybe even in my neighbourhood. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 23 22:05:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 23 22:05:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18833 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Feb 2003 22:05:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18829 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2003 22:05:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Feb 2003 22:05:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 29B2119A86; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 08:05:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A963819A81 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 08:04:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: lucio@proxima.alt.za, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] "part 772" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-vgkzfqcokwxmvrxrywbgxrzxqs" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 08:03:59 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-vgkzfqcokwxmvrxrywbgxrzxqs Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry about that, fixed. Not that it's a very exciting document to look at, but every other security disclaimer page mentions it so I thought it was worth seeing what it meant. "Government end-user" (as applied to encryption items). A government end-user is any foreign central, regional or local government department, agency, or other entity performing governmental functions; including governmental research institutions, governmental corporations or their separate business units (as defined in part 772 of the EAR) which are engaged in the manufacture or distribution of items or services controlled on the Wassenaar Munitions List, and international governmental organizations. This term does not include: utilities (including telecommunications companies and Internet service providers); banks and financial institutions; transportation; broadcast or entertainment; educational organizations; civil health and medical organizations; retail or wholesale firms; and manufacturing or industrial entities not engaged in the manufacture or distribution of items or services controlled on the Wassenaar Munitions List. You'll have to look elsewhere for the Wassenar Munitions List. I did once and it was long and not too surprising. --upas-vgkzfqcokwxmvrxrywbgxrzxqs Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Feb 23 06:46:27 EST 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sun Feb 23 06:46:24 EST 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1DBA619A7F; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 06:46:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C8C819A70 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 06:45:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1NBjTmt025335 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:45:30 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h1NBjN0A025334 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:45:23 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <20030223134517.Z15898@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us Organization: Proxima Research & Development Subject: [9fans] "part 772" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:45:19 +0200 I actually got curious and clicked on the "part 772" link in the document. The results were definitely not encouraging :-) this database not listed in database.lst [bxa] docid-> f:772.wais IPaddress-> dbname-> 2003 I imagine that few need the information, but there may be some that do, maybe even in my neighbourhood. ++L --upas-vgkzfqcokwxmvrxrywbgxrzxqs-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 23 22:11:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 23 22:11:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19003 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Feb 2003 22:11:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18999 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2003 22:11:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Feb 2003 22:11:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6167A19A8C; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 08:11:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C2D219A70 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 08:10:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1NDACmt025481 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:10:13 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h1NDACYp025480 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:10:12 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] "part 772" Message-ID: <20030223151011.A15898@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <19f1d7d62eeee96cea27167325b8db79@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <19f1d7d62eeee96cea27167325b8db79@plan9.bell-labs.com>; from David Presotto on Sun, Feb 23, 2003 at 08:03:59AM -0500 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:10:11 +0200 On Sun, Feb 23, 2003 at 08:03:59AM -0500, David Presotto wrote: > > Sorry about that, fixed. Not that it's a very exciting document > to look at, but every other security disclaimer page mentions it > so I thought it was worth seeing what it meant. > I was merely curious about New Zealand being exempted, when its armament legislation forbids docking to US (and other) nuclear powered ships. Ideally, if New Zealand and many others are exempted, I see little reason for South Africa not to request exemption too. Of course, I have no idea what's involved, but if our government is looking for yet another alternative to monopoly software, I'd be glad to help them along. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 23 22:24:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 23 22:24:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19172 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Feb 2003 22:24:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19168 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2003 22:24:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Feb 2003 22:24:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DB0BF19A8F; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 08:24:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (unknown [217.78.76.180]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id AE83419A8A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 08:23:23 -0500 (EST) From: "DAVID AGU" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20030223132323.AE83419A8A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] Inheritance Claim(Urgent Attention) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 14:31:30 ATTN:MANAGING DIRECTOR I am writing this proposal hoping that you would be of assistance in this business of mutual benefit. My name is Mr.David Agu an auditor at one of the Federal Ministries in lagos-Nigeria. During our last audit exercise,some amount of money totalling $16.5Million was discovered and traced to be owned by one late Engineer Muller Robert, a foreigner who died in a plane crash. The source of this fund was further traced to be a contract payment made to him but has remained unclaimed till now.Since his death, nobody has shown up to claim this fund and this attracted my curiosity. I therefore made a research and found out that he did not leave any next of kin in his confidential document with the ministry that he executed the contract for. A panel setup by the Federal Government on recovery of funds expects that this fund should be unquestionably claimed by any of his available foreign next of kin or alternatively the fund should be donated for arms and ammunition at a military war college here in Nigeria. Fervent valuable efforts were made by the Panel to get in touch with any of the family or relatives but all have proved to no avail. It is because of the perceived possibility of not going to be able to locate any next of kin ( he had no wife and children) that the panel under the influence of our chairman, Rtd Major General Usman Bello, that arrangement is being made for the fund to be declared UNCLAIMABLED and then be donated to the Trust Fund for arms and ammunition which will further enhance the perpetration of war in Africa and the third world in general. To forestall this move, my colleagues and I have taken it upon ourselves to source for a foreign partner who could assist in claimimg this fund for further transfer abroad. I have been given the sole mandate to source for a partner as soon as possible to that effect.All documents and proof to enable you get this fund have been carefully worked out and I am assuring you a 100% risk free involvement. Your share would be 30% of the total amount if you agree to assist while 10% would be set aside to offset all expenses in course of the transfer and the rest would be for us for investment purposes in your country. If this proposal is OK by you, and you do wish to take the advantage of the trust we hope to bestow on you and your company, then kindly reach me immediately via Fax:234-1-7597019 furnishing me with your most confidential telephone and fax numbers and exclusive email so that I can forward to you the relevant details of the transaction. I expect your urgent response. Regards, David. Fax:234-1-7597019 E-mail:dddda77@excite.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 23 22:31:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 23 22:31:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19283 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Feb 2003 22:31:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19279 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2003 22:31:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Feb 2003 22:31:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 247AB19A94; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 08:31:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 66CD419A85 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 08:30:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam avoidance In-Reply-To: <20030223073537.1363.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-jmwmxmnumdjtzgbhfygzjimaat" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 08:30:29 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-jmwmxmnumdjtzgbhfygzjimaat Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It would be nice to first see how many submissions are made by people not on the list. --upas-jmwmxmnumdjtzgbhfygzjimaat Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Feb 23 02:36:26 EST 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sun Feb 23 02:36:23 EST 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 17E0519A2C; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 02:36:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 45FEC19A1C for <9fans@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 02:35:37 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 1364 invoked by uid 991); 23 Feb 2003 07:35:37 -0000 Message-ID: <20030223073537.1363.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> From: "Scott Schwartz" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] spam avoidance Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 23 Feb 2003 02:35:37 -0500 I'm thinking, once again, that we should set the list to only allow postings from subscribers. Some people read via local exploders, or usenet. I think it's worth breaking that in order to avoid a bunch of obvious spam. --upas-jmwmxmnumdjtzgbhfygzjimaat-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Feb 23 22:50:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Feb 23 22:50:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19600 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Feb 2003 22:50:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19596 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2003 22:50:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Feb 2003 22:50:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 144FF19A9D; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 08:50:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B6C7819A63 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 08:49:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: lucio@proxima.alt.za, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] "part 772" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-qkspnmevkvftibmnnbpgfamzct" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 08:49:06 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-qkspnmevkvftibmnnbpgfamzct Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I rechecked the country list. I was afraid France, Germany, NYC and San Francisco might have been moved to the banned list these last few weeks but neither in nor the goveernment end-use list has changed. If anyone can find a pointer on what treaties define the EU+8 that allowed government end-use of US encryption software, I'll stick a pointer on the page. Without checking the lists closely, it looks like the EU+8 covers NATO members plus US pacific allies. --upas-qkspnmevkvftibmnnbpgfamzct Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Feb 23 08:11:25 EST 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sun Feb 23 08:11:23 EST 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4159C19A8B; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 08:11:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C2D219A70 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 08:10:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1NDACmt025481 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:10:13 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h1NDACYp025480 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:10:12 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] "part 772" Message-ID: <20030223151011.A15898@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <19f1d7d62eeee96cea27167325b8db79@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <19f1d7d62eeee96cea27167325b8db79@plan9.bell-labs.com>; from David Presotto on Sun, Feb 23, 2003 at 08:03:59AM -0500 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:10:11 +0200 On Sun, Feb 23, 2003 at 08:03:59AM -0500, David Presotto wrote: > > Sorry about that, fixed. Not that it's a very exciting document > to look at, but every other security disclaimer page mentions it > so I thought it was worth seeing what it meant. > I was merely curious about New Zealand being exempted, when its armament legislation forbids docking to US (and other) nuclear powered ships. Ideally, if New Zealand and many others are exempted, I see little reason for South Africa not to request exemption too. Of course, I have no idea what's involved, but if our government is looking for yet another alternative to monopoly software, I'd be glad to help them along. ++L --upas-qkspnmevkvftibmnnbpgfamzct-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 24 02:41:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 24 02:41:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22449 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Feb 2003 02:41:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22445 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2003 02:41:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Feb 2003 02:41:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5530B19A70; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 12:41:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9247819A31 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 12:40:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h1NHeXio007963 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 09:40:34 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <48a6e3792cf3c9ad5fa5b6ee2762fb68@centurytel.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] "part 772" From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 09:50:32 -0800 > I rechecked the country list. I was afraid France, Germany, > NYC and San Francisco might have been moved to the > banned list these last few weeks but neither in nor > the goveernment end-use list has changed. It might soon only allow export to two countries, the B. R. of Texas and the B. R. of Florida, a.k.a Bush countries. (B. R. is Banana Republic, no offense to the banana) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 24 03:25:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 24 03:25:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22735 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Feb 2003 03:25:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22731 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2003 03:25:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Feb 2003 03:25:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3A5CB19A33; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:25:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ducky.net (ducky.net [66.93.167.66]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 966F419A81 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:24:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from ducky.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ducky.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1NIO8uQ059432 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 10:24:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@ducky.net) Received: (from mike@localhost) by ducky.net (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id h1NIO86g059431 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 10:24:08 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Haertel Message-Id: <200302231824.h1NIO86g059431@ducky.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam avoidance In-Reply-To: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 10:24:08 -0800 (PST) I'm not on the list. I do all mailing lists via local repeaters. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 24 03:51:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 24 03:51:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22943 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Feb 2003 03:51:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22939 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2003 03:51:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Feb 2003 03:51:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B9F3919A31; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:51:05 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3E67A19995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:50:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from mero.morphisms.net (mero.morphisms.net [66.93.84.246]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C457537B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:50:16 -0500 (EST) Received: by mero.morphisms.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B466A275; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:50:16 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:50:16 -0500 From: William Josephson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam avoidance Message-ID: <20030223185016.GA64290@mero.morphisms.net> References: <200302231824.h1NIO86g059431@ducky.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200302231824.h1NIO86g059431@ducky.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-No-archive: yes Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: On Sun, Feb 23, 2003 at 10:24:08AM -0800, Mike Haertel wrote: > I'm not on the list. I do all mailing lists via local repeaters. Similarly, I do many via local aliases, but then my mail set up is rather Byzantine. I'm also not wild about having to send mail with a working envelope address as 9fans is a growing source of spam off the list. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 24 03:55:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 24 03:55:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22975 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Feb 2003 03:55:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22971 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2003 03:55:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Feb 2003 03:55:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D9D0C19A92; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:55:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 158BD19A8B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:54:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18780 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:54:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1NIsiM27287 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:54:44 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302231854.h1NIsiM27287@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam avoidance In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:50:16 EST." <20030223185016.GA64290@mero.morphisms.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:54:44 -0500 > > I'm not on the list. I do all mailing lists via local repeaters. > > Similarly, I do many via local aliases, > but then my mail set up is rather Byzantine. > I'm also not wild about having to send mail > with a working envelope address as 9fans is > a growing source of spam off the list. Scott, is it possible to have password authentication? Ie, when you sign up for the list, you get a password; as long as that password is in the envelope somewhere, the from address is ignored. It's not particularly secure, but would suffice to cut out most of the spam. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 24 03:57:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 24 03:57:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23039 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Feb 2003 03:57:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23035 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2003 03:57:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Feb 2003 03:57:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B72A319A96; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:57:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4518319A81 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:56:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam avoidance In-Reply-To: <200302231854.h1NIsiM27287@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-qacyjawgeouwispgffdcdnybuw" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:56:41 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-qacyjawgeouwispgffdcdnybuw Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'ld be happy just to have the list dump any mail with html in it. --upas-qacyjawgeouwispgffdcdnybuw Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Feb 23 13:55:26 EST 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sun Feb 23 13:55:23 EST 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BAE8519A8D; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:55:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 158BD19A8B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:54:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18780 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:54:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1NIsiM27287 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:54:44 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302231854.h1NIsiM27287@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam avoidance In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:50:16 EST." <20030223185016.GA64290@mero.morphisms.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:54:44 -0500 > > I'm not on the list. I do all mailing lists via local repeaters. > > Similarly, I do many via local aliases, > but then my mail set up is rather Byzantine. > I'm also not wild about having to send mail > with a working envelope address as 9fans is > a growing source of spam off the list. Scott, is it possible to have password authentication? Ie, when you sign up for the list, you get a password; as long as that password is in the envelope somewhere, the from address is ignored. It's not particularly secure, but would suffice to cut out most of the spam. - Dan C. --upas-qacyjawgeouwispgffdcdnybuw-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 24 04:03:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 24 04:03:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23092 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Feb 2003 04:03:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23088 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2003 04:03:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Feb 2003 04:03:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EF2DB19AA3; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 14:03:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id D394C19A81 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 14:02:31 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 10021 invoked by uid 991); 23 Feb 2003 19:02:31 -0000 Message-ID: <20030223190231.10020.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam avoidance In-Reply-To: Message from Dan Cross of "Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:54:44 EST." <200302231854.h1NIsiM27287@augusta.math.psu.edu> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 14:02:31 -0500 | Scott, is it possible to have password authentication? Not really... the list is being run by "mailman" on the department's mail servers, and so I have to use the canned features that it provides. One of them is a switch that says "only subscribers can post". Anything else would require actual work. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 24 04:04:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 24 04:04:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23099 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Feb 2003 04:04:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23095 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2003 04:04:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Feb 2003 04:04:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D0B3E19AAB; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 14:04:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D433D19A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 14:03:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19882 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 14:03:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1NJ3UM27355 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 14:03:30 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302231903.h1NJ3UM27355@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam avoidance In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:56:41 EST." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 14:03:30 -0500 > I'ld be happy just to have the list dump any mail with html in it. No complaints here. If it also dumped anything with a signature file over 5 lines, that'd be exstaticating. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 24 05:28:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 24 05:28:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23729 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Feb 2003 05:28:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23725 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2003 05:28:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Feb 2003 05:28:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5F74D19A7F; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:28:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailhost.det2.ameritech.net (mailhost1-sfldmi.sfldmi.ameritech.net [206.141.193.105]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F53E19A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:27:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from ameritech.net ([67.38.11.69]) by mailhost.det2.ameritech.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with ESMTP id <20030223202735.ESCX8853.mailhost.det2.ameritech.net@ameritech.net> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:27:35 -0500 Message-ID: <3E592E88.3020906@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A quite amusing thing... References: <4f173e22dcb83dfecbce49b100bf1098@sockfarm.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:26:48 -0500 > > >Don't you mean movl, aam, and loop (lowercase)? > No From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 24 05:57:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 24 05:57:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23878 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Feb 2003 05:57:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23874 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2003 05:57:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Feb 2003 05:57:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E48E219AA1; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:57:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from bsd.jcs.local (653218hfc66.tampabay.rr.com [65.32.18.66]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E40DA19A2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:56:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from bsd.jcs.local (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bsd.jcs.local (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1NKuUN8002523 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:56:30 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jsnader@ix.netcom.com) Received: (from jcs@localhost) by bsd.jcs.local (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h1NKuUbS002522 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:56:30 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: bsd.jcs.local: jcs set sender to jsnader@ix.netcom.com using -f From: Jon Snader To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam avoidance Message-ID: <20030223205630.GA2508@ix.netcom.com> Mail-Followup-To: Jon Snader , 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200302231854.h1NIsiM27287@augusta.math.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:56:30 -0500 On Sun, Feb 23, 2003 at 01:56:41PM -0500, David Presotto wrote: > I'ld be happy just to have the list dump any mail > with html in it. I agree--almost all spam is html and virtually nothing of value arrives with html. jcs From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 24 05:59:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 24 05:59:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23885 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Feb 2003 05:59:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23881 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2003 05:59:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Feb 2003 05:59:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A386319AAF; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:59:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 06D6719A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:58:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.7) with ESMTP id 501279 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 14:58:42 -0600 Message-ID: <1f07b5e5061f6cbeaf87dc8f8784f27e@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam avoidance From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <20030223205630.GA2508@ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 12:58:14 -0800 > I agree--almost all spam is html and virtually nothing of value > arrives with html. :-) -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 24 06:43:53 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 24 06:43:53 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24144 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Feb 2003 06:43:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24140 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2003 06:43:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Feb 2003 06:43:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B2A9519A2C; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 16:43:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from henry.sockfarm.net (adsl-98-118.bway.net [216.220.98.118]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B1DDC19991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 16:42:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1641bdb23f1b16ae037c35794a160e11@sockfarm.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A quite amusing thing... From: "John Packer" In-Reply-To: <3E592E88.3020906@ameritech.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ixjgmwgtvctptipqvprluluyvb" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 16:28:09 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ixjgmwgtvctptipqvprluluyvb Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, that shows how little x86 assembly language I've had to deal with the last few years. I had assumed an 8a instruction like MOVL something, CX would have been movl %ecx, something with whatever assembler they use now to compile Amoeba. You say the instruction would be the same. Thanks for the clarification. /* * measure time for the loop * * MOVL loops,CX * aaml1: AAM * LOOP aaml1 * * the time for the loop should be independent of external * cache and memory system since it fits in the execution * prefetch buffer. * */ --upas-ixjgmwgtvctptipqvprluluyvb Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from localhost (john@localhost.alpha.sockfarm.net [127.0.0.1]) by alpha.sockfarm.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h1NINE2c000394 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:23:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from ida.bway.net [216.220.96.4] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.6) for john@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:23:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by ida.bway.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h1NKSJR23279 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:28:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 76D3A19A05; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:28:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailhost.det2.ameritech.net (mailhost1-sfldmi.sfldmi.ameritech.net [206.141.193.105]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F53E19A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:27:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from ameritech.net ([67.38.11.69]) by mailhost.det2.ameritech.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with ESMTP id <20030223202735.ESCX8853.mailhost.det2.ameritech.net@ameritech.net> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:27:35 -0500 Message-ID: <3E592E88.3020906@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A quite amusing thing... References: <4f173e22dcb83dfecbce49b100bf1098@sockfarm.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:26:48 -0500 > > >Don't you mean movl, aam, and loop (lowercase)? > No --upas-ixjgmwgtvctptipqvprluluyvb-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 24 07:01:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 24 07:01:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24289 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Feb 2003 07:01:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24285 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2003 07:01:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Feb 2003 07:01:37 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 990A719991; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:01:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailhost.det3.ameritech.net (mailhost2-sfldmi.sfldmi.ameritech.net [206.141.193.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2469419992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:00:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ameritech.net ([67.38.11.69]) by mailhost.det3.ameritech.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with ESMTP id <20030223220049.DRGI176.mailhost.det3.ameritech.net@ameritech.net> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:00:49 -0500 Message-ID: <3E594462.3010603@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A quite amusing thing... References: <1641bdb23f1b16ae037c35794a160e11@sockfarm.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:00:02 -0500 > > >MOVL something, CX > This syntax is Intel style ASM as depicted in their x86 manuals. >movl %ecx, something > This is known as "AT&T flavor" intel ASM. Its really no big deal, just assembler dependent. Despite flavors in syntax, though, Intel mnemonics are considered static and should never be assumed to change unless Intel specifically removes or changes a mnemonic (which isn't likely to happen with such universal instructions as are in question). Mnemonics should also be considered case independent, though, Intel prefers upper-case. Don > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 24 11:32:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 24 11:32:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30658 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Feb 2003 11:32:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30652 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2003 11:32:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Feb 2003 11:32:38 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E521A19A8B; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:32:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id BB1BE19A8B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:28:08 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 11182 invoked by uid 991); 24 Feb 2003 02:28:08 -0000 Message-ID: <20030224022808.11181.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam avoidance In-Reply-To: Message from David Presotto of "Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:56:41 EST." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:28:08 -0500 | I'ld be happy just to have the list dump any mail | with html in it. Me too. I'd already had it set to reject headers containing content-type: text/html, but the spammers sometimes use multipart/alternative (which I've added), or fail to label it, or otherwise try to be obscure. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 24 12:51:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 24 12:51:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 888 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Feb 2003 12:51:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 884 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2003 12:51:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Feb 2003 12:51:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8786F19ACF; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 22:51:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from unicorn.math.spbu.ru (unicorn.math.spbu.ru [195.19.226.166]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 22E7119AAA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 22:50:48 -0500 (EST) Received: (from vugluskr@localhost) by unicorn.math.spbu.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA05530 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 06:50:46 +0300 From: "Roman V. Shaposhnick" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sendfile interface Message-ID: <20030224065045.A5493@unicorn.math.spbu.ru> References: <20030220013204.A6122@unicorn.math.spbu.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3i In-Reply-To: <20030220013204.A6122@unicorn.math.spbu.ru> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 06:50:45 +0300 Wow! No reply whatsoever :-( Does it mean that it's completely impossible to make sense out of scattered-read hardware (like some network cards for example) under Plan9 ? I understand that performance could be sacrificed for clarity, but was it the case here ? Thanks, Roman. On Thu, Feb 20, 2003 at 01:32:04AM +0300, Roman V. Shaposhnick wrote: > While studying how Linux implements sendfile(2), I couldn't help > but notice, that it is yet another hack a'la mmap. "There must > be a better way to do that" I though at the moment. > > Now, I imagine, that for Plan9 there should be no problem telling > kernel that one Chan should server as an "alias", or proxy if you > will, for another one. By doing that, it should be possible to > eliminate the whole "copy to userland buffer; copy back to kernel" > routine and it could be even possible to utilize hardware > scattered-write. How easy it will be for network connections ? Or may > be I'm stretching my imagination too far, and there's no really > a better way to do it. Please comment. > > Thanks, > Roman. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 24 12:58:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 24 12:58:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1072 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Feb 2003 12:58:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1068 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2003 12:58:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Feb 2003 12:58:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 53A0219ADC; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 22:58:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5528719AC3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 22:57:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.7) with ESMTP id 501607 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:57:19 -0600 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sendfile interface From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <20030224065045.A5493@unicorn.math.spbu.ru> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-dmsjkkcsahvhesqmylctuopjqf" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 19:56:46 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-dmsjkkcsahvhesqmylctuopjqf Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not quite what you are after, but we put readv and writev into the library as a step towards putting them into the kernel interface. The notion was to permit scatter-gather I/O in user space by connecting the segments of the I/O request into blocks (Blocks) rather than copying them several times assembling them into blocks. This would also improve the implementation of devmnt. I'm not sure how much work has been done in that direction since that first tentative step. -rob --upas-dmsjkkcsahvhesqmylctuopjqf Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from killy.mspring.net ([207.69.231.40] verified) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.7) with ESMTP-TLS id 501600 for rob@mail.mightycheese.com; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:51:28 -0600 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by killy.mspring.net (8.12.5/8.8.6) with ESMTP id h1O3pPXg089834 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 22:51:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 395A019AC3; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 22:51:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from unicorn.math.spbu.ru (unicorn.math.spbu.ru [195.19.226.166]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 22E7119AAA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 22:50:48 -0500 (EST) Received: (from vugluskr@localhost) by unicorn.math.spbu.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA05530 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 06:50:46 +0300 From: "Roman V. Shaposhnick" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sendfile interface Message-ID: <20030224065045.A5493@unicorn.math.spbu.ru> References: <20030220013204.A6122@unicorn.math.spbu.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3i In-Reply-To: <20030220013204.A6122@unicorn.math.spbu.ru> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 06:50:45 +0300 Wow! No reply whatsoever :-( Does it mean that it's completely impossible to make sense out of scattered-read hardware (like some network cards for example) under Plan9 ? I understand that performance could be sacrificed for clarity, but was it the case here ? Thanks, Roman. On Thu, Feb 20, 2003 at 01:32:04AM +0300, Roman V. Shaposhnick wrote: > While studying how Linux implements sendfile(2), I couldn't help > but notice, that it is yet another hack a'la mmap. "There must > be a better way to do that" I though at the moment. > > Now, I imagine, that for Plan9 there should be no problem telling > kernel that one Chan should server as an "alias", or proxy if you > will, for another one. By doing that, it should be possible to > eliminate the whole "copy to userland buffer; copy back to kernel" > routine and it could be even possible to utilize hardware > scattered-write. How easy it will be for network connections ? Or may > be I'm stretching my imagination too far, and there's no really > a better way to do it. Please comment. > > Thanks, > Roman. --upas-dmsjkkcsahvhesqmylctuopjqf-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 24 13:05:11 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 24 13:05:11 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1265 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Feb 2003 13:04:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1255 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2003 13:04:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Feb 2003 13:04:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9C2F119ADE; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 23:04:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B9D3D19ADD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 23:03:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Feb 23 23:03:17 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Sun Feb 23 23:03:15 EST 2003 Message-ID: <956a268f177763e4cb4f4ad8177cf5a6@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sendfile interface From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030224065045.A5493@unicorn.math.spbu.ru> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 23:03:13 -0500 It would be trivial to write a zero-copy system call int syscopy(int from, int to, int n); About ten lines of code, if it were really necessary. It's a good exercise. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 24 14:43:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 24 14:43:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4584 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Feb 2003 14:43:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4580 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2003 14:43:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Feb 2003 14:43:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2D5E919ADD; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 00:43:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9C9D319ADA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 00:42:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA00139 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 00:42:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1O5g1M29673 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 00:42:01 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302240542.h1O5g1M29673@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam avoidance In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 23 Feb 2003 12:58:14 PST." <1f07b5e5061f6cbeaf87dc8f8784f27e@mightycheese.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 00:42:01 -0500 > > I agree--almost all spam is html and virtually nothing of value > > arrives with html. > > :-) That doesn't conform to the HTML DTD. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 24 14:43:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 24 14:43:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4597 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Feb 2003 14:43:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4592 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2003 14:43:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Feb 2003 14:43:42 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 31B0919AE2; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 00:43:31 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E331619ADA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 00:42:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <7c0908d4dccb46206aa3bc17835dbff2@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] done Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:44:25 +0900 Sorry, I can't stop to write this. _o_ Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 24 15:49:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 24 15:49:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6934 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Feb 2003 15:49:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6930 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2003 15:49:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Feb 2003 15:49:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0F1DC19ADB; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 01:49:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 71D1019AB1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 01:48:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.7) with ESMTP id 501772 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 00:48:18 -0600 Message-ID: <50d52c4fe14ade63d6aa4412b3c6fdfe@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam avoidance From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <200302240542.h1O5g1M29673@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 22:47:49 -0800 > That doesn't conform to the HTML DTD. Then your HTML detector shouldn't reject it. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 24 15:54:16 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 24 15:54:16 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7078 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Feb 2003 15:54:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7074 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2003 15:54:14 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Feb 2003 15:54:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9C43C19AE3; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 01:54:04 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6327819AAA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 01:53:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from mero.morphisms.net (mero.morphisms.net [66.93.84.246]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12FDD262 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 01:53:44 -0500 (EST) Received: by mero.morphisms.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C64D8275; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 01:53:40 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 01:53:40 -0500 From: William Josephson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam avoidance Message-ID: <20030224065340.GA68608@mero.morphisms.net> References: <200302240542.h1O5g1M29673@augusta.math.psu.edu> <50d52c4fe14ade63d6aa4412b3c6fdfe@mightycheese.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <50d52c4fe14ade63d6aa4412b3c6fdfe@mightycheese.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-No-archive: yes Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: On Sun, Feb 23, 2003 at 10:47:49PM -0800, rob pike, esq. wrote: > > That doesn't conform to the HTML DTD. > > Then your HTML detector shouldn't reject it. ... yielding a filter that is about 0% effective for the intended purpose ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 24 19:06:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 24 19:06:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12699 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Feb 2003 19:06:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12695 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2003 19:06:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Feb 2003 19:06:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 03B5A199D5; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 05:06:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DBB33199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 05:05:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18nFPN-0006En-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:00:25 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Saroj Mahapatra Message-ID: <6d3220b4.0302221723.2ee31b81@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] ndb and tokenize Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:00:10 GMT Rob had written in an earlier posting about how he is pushing to use %q and tokenize consistently everywhere. Ndb now uses double quotes ("avalue" style) and if I remember correctly, can not handle embedded quotes. Imagine if ndb used rc-style quotes for attribute values (aname='avalue'). tokenize in its current form can not be used to parse an arbitrary number of pairs. So I think 'tokenize' should return the rest of the string (in an out argument) after setting the last argument in the argument vector. Note that 'getfields' does not alter a token (such as, compressing quotes); so there is no difficulty in calling 'getfields' repeatedly to get an arbitrary number of fields. But 'tokenize' must leave the rest of the string untouched, so that one can call 'tokenize' again. I have been thinking about 'tokenize' for some time and I'd like to hear others' opinions regarding this. Thank you, Saroj Mahapatra From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 24 19:06:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 24 19:06:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12709 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Feb 2003 19:06:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12705 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2003 19:06:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Feb 2003 19:06:46 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8A54219A7D; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 05:06:30 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3F3ED199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 05:05:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18nFU2-0006Md-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:05:14 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Anthony Mandic Message-ID: <3E594D95.EE3A5C09@start.com.au> Organization: Mandic Consulting Pty. Ltd. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable References: <20030223073537.1363.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu>, Subject: Re: [9fans] spam avoidance Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:04:59 GMT David Presotto wrote: >=20 > It would be nice to first see how many submissions are made by > people not on the list. This is another one. -am =A9 2003 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 24 19:07:04 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 24 19:07:04 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12727 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Feb 2003 19:07:04 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12723 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2003 19:07:04 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Feb 2003 19:07:04 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5FBCF19A84; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 05:06:45 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7720F199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 05:05:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18nFO1-0006BX-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:59:01 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3E56FF4C.4010205@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20030221102341.7018619A65@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Here is that sample Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:57:58 GMT big@boss.com wrote: > Attached file: Really? Big Boss Man, can't you hear me when I call? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 24 19:12:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 24 19:12:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12819 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Feb 2003 19:12:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12814 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2003 19:12:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Feb 2003 19:12:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 79ACD19A31; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 05:12:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B127619A31 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 05:11:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18nFPO-0006Et-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:00:26 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Saroj Mahapatra Message-ID: <6d3220b4.0302221730.6677da7@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] no error checking in strtol and strtoul Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:00:21 GMT Hi, Was the decision to leave out error checking (like ANSI C strtol and strtoul do) deliberate? The first type of error (wrong syntax) is easy to check (if ret value == 0 and rest == beginning of string), but not handling overflow situation is unsatisfactory. I'd like to hear plan 9 implementators' comment on this. Thanks, Saroj Mahapatra From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 24 19:12:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 24 19:12:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12826 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Feb 2003 19:12:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12822 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2003 19:12:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Feb 2003 19:12:42 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9422519A8C; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 05:12:31 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC25019A31 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 05:11:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18nFPv-0006GZ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:00:59 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Saroj Mahapatra Message-ID: <6d3220b4.0302221754.17fc79a@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] libbio and CR-LF Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:00:32 GMT I have been thinking about adapting libbio for Windows platform. There are basically two approaches. One can remove CR-LF when reading from the file, or one can keep the CR-LF and Bget can return a '\n' when it sees CR-LF. Neither approach is perfect. In the first case, file offset + icount is messed up. In the second case, Bunget will have to change '\n' to CR-LF. It (Bunget) still can not handle mixed line terminators 'CR-LF' and CR (See 'getcsv' in "Practice Of Programming" for an example). Leaving the handling of CR-LF to the application programs is one option (though not very pleasing). Still a different approach is to use programs like dos2unix and unix2dos. But if you are dealing with a network protocol like http or New York Stock Exchange CMS format messages, dos2unix and unix2dos do not help. What do guys here think about this? Thanks, Saroj Mahapatra From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 24 19:22:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 24 19:22:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13016 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Feb 2003 19:22:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13012 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2003 19:22:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Feb 2003 19:22:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 90D4C19A7F; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 05:22:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C50FF19A2D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 05:21:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18nFU3-0006Mj-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:05:15 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Anthony Mandic Message-ID: <3E594E56.CF61505@start.com.au> Organization: Mandic Consulting Pty. Ltd. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <200302231854.h1NIsiM27287@augusta.math.psu.edu>, Subject: Re: [9fans] spam avoidance Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:05:11 GMT David Presotto wrote: > > I'ld be happy just to have the list dump any mail > with html in it. The Nigerian scammers don't seem to use it so you'd have to scan emails for keywords like money, inheritance, etc. However, I note that they are now giving out fax and phone numbers. Hmmm ... I wonder if tying them up with reverse charges calls would have any effect? -am © 2003 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 24 20:10:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 24 20:10:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13884 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Feb 2003 20:10:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13880 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2003 20:10:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Feb 2003 20:10:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 36DF319A2D; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 06:10:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8C4B1199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 06:09:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18nGFy-0007lW-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:54:46 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3E59F625.5030405@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <6d3220b4.0302221754.17fc79a@posting.google.com> Subject: [9fans] Re: libbio and CR-LF Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:54:23 GMT Saroj Mahapatra wrote: > I have been thinking about adapting libbio for Windows platform. There > are basically two approaches. One can remove CR-LF when reading from > the file, ... Not all Windows text files include CR. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 24 21:04:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 24 21:04:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14817 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Feb 2003 21:04:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14813 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2003 21:04:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Feb 2003 21:04:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CBAD019A9B; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 07:04:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [218.246.33.52]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9CA5B19A84 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 07:03:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from () by (8.11.2/8.11.6) with SMTP id h1OC2MY05926 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 20:02:22 +0800 Message-Id: <200302241202.h1OC2MY05926@localhost.localdomain> From: Sarah Williams To: "9fans@cse.psu.edu" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> X-Mailer: CSMTPConnection v2.17 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="06f37a00-899f-41b6-a864-fcc4e948533c" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [9fans] PLAN9.AICHI-U.AC.JP Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Sarah Williams List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 20:03:50 +0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format --06f37a00-899f-41b6-a864-fcc4e948533c Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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    --06f37a00-899f-41b6-a864-fcc4e948533c-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 24 22:50:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 24 22:50:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16490 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Feb 2003 22:50:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16486 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2003 22:50:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Feb 2003 22:50:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 222DB19AA4; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 08:50:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A6F2C199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 08:49:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] (no subject) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 08:49:20 -0500 I just went through a thousand or so 9fans archived messages looking for spam. About 70% were html or had html attachments. A few valid messages also had html attachments. Just rejecting html would be helpful but still let a lot through. We could enter the arms race and throw an automated filter or go moderated (not really moderated but people filtered). The latter is the only one likely to be 100% effective, but a Bayesian filter might be good enough. Even the flames on the net are stylized enough to be recognizable as real 9fans mail. Of course even the Bayesian one needs a moderator(s) that will reclassify any misclassified stuff so that the filter will keep up with a changing world so some people will have to do extra work. However, it won't insert people delays in normal delivery. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Feb 24 23:50:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Feb 24 23:50:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17317 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Feb 2003 23:50:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17313 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2003 23:50:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Feb 2003 23:50:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 67A7619AA3; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:50:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F02A719A60 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:49:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Feb 24 09:49:29 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Mon Feb 24 09:49:26 EST 2003 Message-ID: <325d51a3bce898a06f32d76ea420f62b@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] libbio and CR-LF From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <6d3220b4.0302221754.17fc79a@posting.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:49:22 -0500 If the CR is there it should be reported. Libbio should not do any funny conversions like Windows stdio libraries traditionally have. They confuse more than they help. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 00:07:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 00:07:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17856 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 00:07:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17852 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 00:07:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 00:07:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DA6B819AA3; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:07:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E307F199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:06:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h1OFBKo03069 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:11:20 -0500 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:11:20 -0500 (EST) What list software are we using? Is it smart enough to be told to only bother filtering new messages, ie, let all messages pertaining to an existing (recent) thread through? If so, we could be a little more strict on the filtering. Cheers, Sam On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, David Presotto wrote: > I just went through a thousand or so 9fans archived messages looking for spam. > About 70% were html or had html attachments. A few valid messages also > had html attachments. Just rejecting html would be helpful but > still let a lot through. > > We could enter the arms race and throw an automated filter > or go moderated (not really moderated but people filtered). > The latter is the only one likely to be 100% effective, but > a Bayesian filter might be good enough. Even the flames on > the net are stylized enough to be recognizable as real > 9fans mail. Of course even the Bayesian one needs a > moderator(s) that will reclassify any misclassified stuff > so that the filter will keep up with a changing world > so some people will have to do extra work. > However, it won't insert people delays in normal delivery. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 00:10:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 00:10:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17900 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 00:10:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17896 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 00:10:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 00:10:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8746019AA4; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:10:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CC65F19AA4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:09:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1OF97mt029246 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:09:08 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h1OF97WI029245 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:09:07 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] libbio and CR-LF Message-ID: <20030224170906.X15898@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <6d3220b4.0302221754.17fc79a@posting.google.com> <325d51a3bce898a06f32d76ea420f62b@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <325d51a3bce898a06f32d76ea420f62b@plan9.bell-labs.com>; from Russ Cox on Mon, Feb 24, 2003 at 09:49:22AM -0500 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:09:06 +0200 On Mon, Feb 24, 2003 at 09:49:22AM -0500, Russ Cox wrote: > > If the CR is there it should be reported. > Libbio should not do any funny conversions > like Windows stdio libraries traditionally have. > They confuse more than they help. > Isn't the CP/M approach that when reading a "text" file, one treats the combination as end of line, where the is optional (I seem to recall some software that used them in the reverse sequence, mechanical typewriter-style)? In other words, one can treat the as optional if it immediately precedes for "text" files. In fact, any number of s can be discarded in such a situation. s standing alone must either be translated or treated as themselves. Whatever is decided, it must be cast in stone, of course. That is, if a "text" mode can be specified. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 00:15:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 00:15:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17946 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 00:15:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17942 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 00:15:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 00:15:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A42CB19AAF; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:15:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7143219A60 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:14:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Feb 24 10:14:21 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Mon Feb 24 10:14:19 EST 2003 Message-ID: <11deab0d744ff775431cef2a0e8aadd8@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] spam filtering Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:14:15 -0500 As Scott said yesterday, the list uses Mailman. http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman.html As he also said, he can't do anything that isn't a stock Mailman option. If you want to suggest something, please look in the documentation first. We've all gotten more metaspam in the last two days from this list than we have spam. Please stop. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 00:15:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 00:15:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17954 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 00:15:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17950 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 00:15:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 00:15:45 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4C77C19A97; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:15:32 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9740519A96 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:14:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Feb 24 10:14:40 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Mon Feb 24 10:14:37 EST 2003 Message-ID: <2c43986586d52f0b4b3b1878469ddbcb@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] libbio and CR-LF From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030224170906.X15898@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:14:34 -0500 > Isn't the CP/M approach that when reading a "text" file, one treats > the combination as end of line, where the is optional (I > seem to recall some software that used them in the reverse sequence, > mechanical typewriter-style)? > > In other words, one can treat the as optional if it immediately > precedes for "text" files. In fact, any number of s can be > discarded in such a situation. s standing alone must either be > translated or treated as themselves. Whatever is decided, it must be > cast in stone, of course. > > That is, if a "text" mode can be specified. If the CR is there it should be reported. Libbio should not do any funny conversions like Windows stdio libraries traditionally have. They confuse more than they help. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 00:25:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 00:25:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18076 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 00:25:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18072 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 00:25:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 00:25:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F36A919AA5; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:25:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.189]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F06B519A97 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:24:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from [212.227.126.205] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18nKTH-0001Gi-00; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 16:24:47 +0100 Received: from [219.65.132.215] (helo=agni) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18nKTF-0003hh-00; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 16:24:46 +0100 From: Martin C.Atkins To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, inferno@topica.com Message-Id: <20030224204958.157fccfe.martin@mca-ltd.com> Organization: Mission Critical Applications Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.4claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 20:49:58 +0530 Hi, One thing I have never quite felt comfortable with in Plan9 and Inferno, is the special treatment of '#' in the bind system call, and more generally, at the start of any path given to open, etc. (The following discussion uses Inferno examples, but most have direct Plan9 equivalents. I've cross-posted this to both groups, since it is a question about both systems - I hope that is OK!) Problems I see with '#' include: It is a special case: Nowhere else is there a similar mechanism/convention. Limited: What happens when we run out of letters/glyphs to represent devices? (Ok, so there *are* 65,000-odd glyphs... :-) Awkward: Many device letters are no-longer obvious. E.g. Many devices could reasonably be #s - SCSI, serial, etc. Oops, no it's srv! Is #d a disk, or /dev/draw? Why is flash '#W'? Why is ssl '#D'? (Because '#s' is srv perhaps?) Breaks the rules in 'The Hideous Name': why can't I do: ls -l #? to see all the devices, etc... Requires other special cases: Such as the sys-pctl option, NODEVS. I think I have a proposal that could replace this mechanism, addressing all these problems, while providing a (reasonably) clean backwards compatibility option until the rest of the system caught up. I propose a special filesystem driver, call it 'proto', which is mounted on /proto by the kernel, during the creation of the first, 'init', process from which all the others are derived by forking. The /proto directory would contain a file for each device, so that instead of bind '#c' ... one would do bind '/proto/console' ... (or "bind '/proto/cons' ...", if you must insist :-) The special behaviour of proto, would be that attempts to bind files within it would do what binds of names beginning with '#' currently do. Then one could: ls -l /proto to see the devices on this system. But lots of programs have "#..." filenames in them, so what about them? While such programs continue to exist, system calls would be changed so that '#x' at the start of a filename would be expanded to: /proto/shortnames/x The "shortnames" directory would contain the single letter pseudonyms for the drivers. Furthermore, "bind '#Dppp/path' ..." would be rewritten to: bind '/proto/shortnames/D/ppp/path' ... So that the example from KFS(3): echo filsys fs kfs.file >'#Kcons/kfsctl' would be equivalent to: echo filsys fs kfs.file >'/proto/shortnames/K/cons/kfsctl' or, to: echo filsys fs kfs.file >'/proto/kfs/cons/kfsctl' ( bind '#D/path' ... could map to: bind '/proto/shortnames/D/./path' ... or are there any better suggestions? Would bind '/proto/shortnames/D//path' ... actually be safe enough?) Once drivers are represented by files, lots of other things become possible (although some of these might be going too far...) Access to devices could be controlled by permissions, etc. One could have a /proto/ctl file to which commands could be sent to remove (or even add?!) devices from the visibility of this, and inheriting, processes (a sort of fine-grained NODEVS). "sys->pctl(NODEVS, [])" itself could be replaced by: unmount /proto since there is no way for a program to name the proto driver, there is then no way to get access to it once it has been unmounted, or to gain access to any other devices! '#' names would expand into non-existent paths. This all seems so obvious, that I can't understand why it hasn't always been done this way! I'm sure that there would be many practical issues to sort out in changing to this kind of scheme. One problem that springs to mind is the format of /prog/pid/ns, and programs that read it... But are there any fundamental problems with this approach? Was there some clever reason why this wasn't done from the start, or would cause untold problems that I haven't thought of? I.e. Am I missing something, or is it a 'good idea' (that might be too much trouble to change for now)? Martin -- Martin C. Atkins martin@mca-ltd.com Mission Critical Applications Ltd, U.K. http://www.mca-ltd.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 00:28:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 00:28:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18121 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 00:28:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18117 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 00:28:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 00:28:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A99D719AB3; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:28:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.119.131.80]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 76B1F19AAF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:27:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (boyd@zode.strakt.com [62.119.131.76]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h1OFR2xw019456 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 16:27:02 +0100 Message-ID: <3E5A39C5.7000402@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020623 Debian/1.0.0-0.woody.1 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] libbio and CR-LF References: <2c43986586d52f0b4b3b1878469ddbcb@plan9.bell-labs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 16:27:01 +0100 Russ Cox wrote: > If the CR is there it should be reported. > Libbio should not do any funny conversions In the general case the problem is intractable so no special treatment should be done. Should you decide to do it then all the tools (that use it) will have to be told what sort of 'file' it is. Obviously, this is a bad idea. I built such functionality into a 'line' based i/o library when it was faced with talking POP. In this case the application _knew_ it was going to be talking POP and so it had sufficient context to make the right decision. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 00:29:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 00:29:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18134 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 00:29:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18130 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 00:29:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 00:29:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8CEA619AC9; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:29:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.119.131.80]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2461A19AB5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:28:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (boyd@zode.strakt.com [62.119.131.76]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h1OFSZxw019486 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 16:28:35 +0100 Message-ID: <3E5A3A23.1010207@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020623 Debian/1.0.0-0.woody.1 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind References: <20030224204958.157fccfe.martin@mca-ltd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 16:28:35 +0100 Martin C.Atkins wrote: >Problems I see with '#' include: >It is a special case: > Nowhere else is there a similar mechanism/convention. > Yup, it _is_ a special case. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 00:31:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 00:31:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18181 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 00:31:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18177 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 00:31:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 00:31:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 236BB19ACE; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:31:25 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E41B419A96 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:29:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1OFTmmt029347 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:29:48 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h1OFTmwV029346 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:29:48 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] libbio and CR-LF Message-ID: <20030224172946.A15898@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030224170906.X15898@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <2c43986586d52f0b4b3b1878469ddbcb@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <2c43986586d52f0b4b3b1878469ddbcb@plan9.bell-labs.com>; from Russ Cox on Mon, Feb 24, 2003 at 10:14:34AM -0500 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:29:47 +0200 On Mon, Feb 24, 2003 at 10:14:34AM -0500, Russ Cox wrote: > > If the CR is there it should be reported. > Libbio should not do any funny conversions > like Windows stdio libraries traditionally have. > They confuse more than they help. You're suggesting that Libbio for Windows should be consistent with itself and not the underlying environment. It's a subjective call, but it makes sense in that only new code would use Libbio. However, the programmer would have to jump through flaming hoops to manage all files, as it can't be predicted which variety is going to be encountered. If the library can simplify this, I believe it ought to. Binary mode restores sanity, if so desired. It's that, or a complicated shim, re-invented by each user of Libbio. At least in my opinion. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 01:00:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 01:00:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18533 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 01:00:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18529 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 01:00:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 01:00:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3CBAF19AA9; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 11:00:18 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A57531998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:59:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h1OG44o03242 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 11:04:04 -0500 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] spam filtering In-Reply-To: <11deab0d744ff775431cef2a0e8aadd8@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 11:04:04 -0500 (EST) > As Scott said yesterday, the list uses Mailman. > http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman.html > As he also said, he can't do anything that isn't a stock > Mailman option. If you want to suggest something, > please look in the documentation first. > Actually, what he said was anything that wasn't a stock option "would require actual work." I took that to mean we're looking for a least effort solution to the problem, not that we're handcuffed by mailman. I think it's already been stated that the stock features aren't sufficient. Before I go hacking, which version are we using? Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 01:13:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 01:13:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18742 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 01:13:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18738 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 01:13:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 01:13:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8F611199BE; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 11:13:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AD60D199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 11:12:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <29dc2126076b9632bb6334662e21de8a@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Fco.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] change in upas/fs Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:12:36 +0100 Hi, upas/fs fails when using an mbox serviced by a server using lib9. I think the problem is that we can no longer use a dirstat change name dirwstat sequence to rename a file. The fix(?) is simply to change sysrename in common/libsys.c to use nulldir istead of dirstat. What worries me is that there may be others that use the above sequence to change a single attribute of a file. hth From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 01:57:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 01:57:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19194 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 01:57:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19190 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 01:57:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 01:57:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4E55E19AB3; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 11:57:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from work (unknown [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A7496199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 11:56:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3ac8898cbd443116eeeb152a9d5ac1e6@snellwilcox.com> From: "Steve Simon" To: 9fans@snellwilcox.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] (no subject) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 16:52:02 0000 Hi, Any advice on the "best" (I guess I mean simple and clean) filesystem to look at as I try once again to teach myself to write fileservers? -Steve From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 02:07:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 02:07:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19338 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 02:07:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19334 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 02:07:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 02:07:38 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE0CC19AC3; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:07:19 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from buzzard.onr.com (buzzard.kdi.com [207.200.55.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 44F1F19AA9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:06:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from nomad.bybent.com (rrcs-sw-24-153-182-131.biz.rr.com [24.153.182.131]) by buzzard.onr.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h1OH7LA10445; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 11:07:21 -0600 Received: (from wwalker@localhost) by nomad.bybent.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h1OG6bZ01687; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:06:37 -0600 From: Wayne Walker To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: 9fans@snellwilcox.com Subject: Re: [9fans] (no subject) Message-ID: <20030224100637.A1582@broadq.com> References: <3ac8898cbd443116eeeb152a9d5ac1e6@snellwilcox.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <3ac8898cbd443116eeeb152a9d5ac1e6@snellwilcox.com>; from steve.simon@snellwilcox.com on Mon, Feb 24, 2003 at 04:52:02PM +0000 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Wayne Walker List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:06:37 -0600 If you plan on wirting a "unix-ish" file system, I think the SysV / Coherent fs was fairly simple (as simple as inode/superblock/indirect block fs's go). I've not looked at the actual linux or *BSD code for that, though. If you are looking for much simpler file system stuff, the romfs driver in linux should be farily small and clean. I cd'd into /usr/src/linux/fs and it looks like I'm right romfs and ramfs are both tiny. sysv and minix are the simplest "unixish" fs's (by code size). [wwalker@nomad fs]$ du -ks * | sort -n -r | grep -v '\.c$' 3220 nls 908 jfs 740 reiserfs 588 hfs 512 intermezzo 344 udf 340 jffs2 296 ntfs 268 ext3 264 nfs 220 partitions 216 jbd 212 nfsd 200 jffs 200 hpfs 184 smbfs 176 ufs 168 lockd 168 ext2 156 umsdos 156 ncpfs 152 befs 144 devfs 136 proc 128 coda 116 freevxfs 116 affs 108 fat 104 sysv 104 isofs 84 adfs 72 minix 68 autofs 64 autofs4 56 qnx4 44 vfat 44 efs 36 openpromfs 36 bfs 32 cramfs 28 msdos 24 romfs 24 devpts 16 ramfs 8 Config.in 8 ChangeLog 4 Makefile On Mon, Feb 24, 2003 at 04:52:02PM +0000, Steve Simon wrote: > Hi, > > Any advice on the "best" (I guess I mean simple and clean) > filesystem to look at as I try once again to teach > myself to write fileservers? > > -Steve -- Wayne Walker www.broadq.com :) Bringing digital video and audio to the living room From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 02:19:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 02:19:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19441 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 02:19:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19437 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 02:19:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 02:19:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 52D9819AA9; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:19:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B07D319AA9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:18:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from mero.morphisms.net (mero.morphisms.net [66.93.84.246]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F210037 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:18:49 -0500 (EST) Received: by mero.morphisms.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A557A275; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:18:49 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:18:49 -0500 From: William Josephson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] (no subject) Message-ID: <20030224171849.GB37539@mero.morphisms.net> References: <3ac8898cbd443116eeeb152a9d5ac1e6@snellwilcox.com> <20030224100637.A1582@broadq.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030224100637.A1582@broadq.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-No-archive: yes Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: On Mon, Feb 24, 2003 at 10:06:37AM -0600, Wayne Walker wrote: > If you plan on wirting a "unix-ish" file system, I think the SysV / > Coherent fs was fairly simple (as simple as inode/superblock/indirect > block fs's go). I've not looked at the actual linux or *BSD code for > that, though. If you're actually looking for an on-disk filesystem, kfs or FreeBSD's FFS are probably good places to start. I have read-only FFS+buffer cache for plan 9 lying around here somewhere which I suppose I should finish; it already serves its purpose for doing physical backup a la Russ's "trimfat" for FAT filesystems, though. But I suspect you are looking for a Plan 9 filesystem, so something like ramfs, webfs, or nntpfs might be better places to start. Lib9p is also worth poking at, IMO. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 02:20:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 02:20:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19456 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 02:20:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19452 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 02:20:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 02:20:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0AD5119ADD; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:20:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C6E1419A97 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:19:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Feb 24 12:19:24 EST 2003 Received: from 18.24.6.202 ([18.24.6.202]) by plan9; Mon Feb 24 12:19:21 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] change in upas/fs From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <29dc2126076b9632bb6334662e21de8a@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:19:24 -0500 > What worries me is that there may be others that use the above > sequence to change a single attribute of a file. and they need to be fixed. we made a conscious decision to clean this up, way back when we designed 9p2000. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 02:39:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 02:39:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19754 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 02:39:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19750 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 02:39:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 02:39:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ECA3F19ACE; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:39:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B677219AD1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:38:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Feb 24 12:38:53 EST 2003 Received: from 18.24.6.202 ([18.24.6.202]) by plan9; Mon Feb 24 12:38:51 EST 2003 Message-ID: <03b63d1815df8a882061362ddd9eda90@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] file systems From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <3ac8898cbd443116eeeb152a9d5ac1e6@snellwilcox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:38:56 -0500 the EXAMPLES section of 9p(2) gives some suggestions. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 03:39:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 03:39:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20271 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 03:39:11 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20267 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 03:39:11 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 03:39:11 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 404AD19ACE; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 13:38:18 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2A09F19AC8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 13:37:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.7) with ESMTP id 502225 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:37:10 -0600 Message-ID: <7bf536fa6ce3ddbe60a1a94c026d6f7e@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <20030224204958.157fccfe.martin@mca-ltd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:36:42 -0800 # file names were just a hack to get started - literally to get started. They were a place holder until a better idea came along. None has. # was never considered a great idea; I just needed some way to name an unnamed resource. I deliberately chose # as the character because it's the comment character in the shell and therefore is really irritating to use. Your proposal is interesting but doesn't solve the bootstrap problem. How would /proto get mounted? You see, the thing about # names is that they're really not in the name space, and that comes in handy when booting or creating a name space from scratch, such as in listen. Since a program can't name the proto driver, how does one establish a connection to it? I'm sure there's a way; I just wonder what your plan is. One thing I like about your proposal is that it would make it easier to import devices from remote machines. One thing I don't like about your proposal is that it would make it easier to import devices from remote machines. > This all seems so obvious, that I can't understand why it hasn't always > been done this way! Many years of thinking, especially when given the ideas made possible by the incomplete early implementations, can make hard things obvious. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 04:02:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 04:02:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20492 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 04:02:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20488 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 04:02:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 04:02:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 620FF19ACF; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:02:19 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id DFDC3199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:01:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3203694a344338d2aae59b328b9fe67a@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 19:04:01 0000 rob: > Your proposal is interesting but doesn't solve the bootstrap problem. > How would /proto get mounted? You see, the thing about # names > is that they're really not in the name space, and that comes in handy > when booting or creating a name space from scratch, such as in > listen. Since a program can't name the proto driver, how does one > establish a connection to it? I'm sure there's a way; I just wonder > what your plan is. two possibilities spring to mind: a) there's still an escape from the namespace, but a smaller one: there could be one (and only one) device nameable in the '#' name space, the proto device. (whether one allows an attach spec is a matter of taste). that at least would solve some of the naming problems. b) have a special system call for attaching proto. martin: > One could have a /proto/ctl file to which commands could be sent to remove > (or even add?!) devices from the visibility of this, and inheriting, processes > (a sort of fine-grained NODEVS). this would require that the namespace served by the proto device was specific to a namespace group. how would the proto device know to serve the same namespace to a process that's just done an rfork(RFNAMEG)? you could make it so each attach to '#' (the proto device) gave you a new instance of that device, so: unmount /proto bind '#' /proto would allow changing of availability of devices in /proto without affecting anything else. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 04:05:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 04:05:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20515 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 04:05:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20511 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 04:05:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 04:05:40 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D3FC19ADE; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:05:18 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1814C19AC8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:04:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.7) with ESMTP id 502260 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 13:04:50 -0600 Message-ID: <3948fb9e208f81859747a83f5be12fd6@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <3203694a344338d2aae59b328b9fe67a@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 11:04:21 -0800 /proto is an odd choice of name and also kinda long. /ur seems better. one could have the ur-console /ur/console, etc. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 04:14:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 04:14:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20641 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 04:14:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20637 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 04:14:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 04:14:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 43B3F19AC3; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:14:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B6C7C19AB4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:13:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h1OJHTo03767 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:17:49 -0500 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] spam filtering In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:17:29 -0500 (EST) Scott, I downloaded 2.0.13 since 2.0.11 wasn't available. The file $MAILMAN/Mailman/Handlers/SpamDetect.py where MAILMAN is your install directory is a hard coded spam filter file. Adding an RE for html or anything other combination of incantations seems easy. The current code does an OR (if any RE matches, fail). I would suggest adding an AND mechanism such that any message lacking 'RE:' in the subject header gets sent through a rigorous set of RE filters (html, nigerian, etc). I can come up with something if you don't want to. Btw, that's some nasty Python. I hope it's not representative of the language. Cheers, Sam On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Sam wrote: > > > As Scott said yesterday, the list uses Mailman. > > http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman.html > > As he also said, he can't do anything that isn't a stock > > Mailman option. If you want to suggest something, > > please look in the documentation first. > > > > Actually, what he said was anything that wasn't a stock > option "would require actual work." I took that to > mean we're looking for a least effort solution to the > problem, not that we're handcuffed by mailman. I > think it's already been stated that the stock features > aren't sufficient. Before I go hacking, which version > are we using? > > Sam > > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 04:26:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 04:26:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20775 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 04:26:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20771 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 04:26:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 04:26:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8664019ADC; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:26:18 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from magnum.cooper.edu (magnum.cooper.edu [199.98.16.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id D2FF019AC8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:25:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from robin.cooper.edu by magnum.cooper.edu with SMTP id AA21082 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>); Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:28:52 -0500 Received: from localhost by robin.cooper.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA17667; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:25:41 -0500 From: Joel Salomon To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:25:41 -0500 (EST) How about /# ? Where is the inferno group Martin said he cross-posted to? comp.os.inferno seems to be a low traffic spam board. --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 04:30:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 04:30:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20809 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 04:30:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20805 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 04:30:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 04:30:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 923F219AA9; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:30:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from magnum.cooper.edu (magnum.cooper.edu [199.98.16.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 89EF0199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:29:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from robin.cooper.edu by magnum.cooper.edu with SMTP id AA21275 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>); Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:32:27 -0500 Received: from localhost by robin.cooper.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA17694; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:29:16 -0500 From: Joel Salomon To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] file systems Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:29:16 -0500 (EST) > as simple as inode/superblock/indirect block fs's go Speaking of which, how do I find out how the kfs is laid out on disk? --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 04:31:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 04:31:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20830 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 04:31:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20826 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 04:31:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 04:31:37 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C13D219AD1; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:31:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C48AA1998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:30:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <445a2e694b4a666d6a7c9b24d0a5ee06@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <3203694a344338d2aae59b328b9fe67a@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 20:29:24 +0100 An alternative to having a special system call could be for RFCNAMEG to mean `a namespace with just a reasonable set of kernel devices mounted under /ur'. There'd be no bootstrap problem (well, it would be hidden inside the code for RFCNAMEG). This alternative would lead to: 1. the problem of using just some of the devices and not all of them. 2. the problem of `which one is the reasonable set' (eg. we probably dont want #| there for each RFCNAMEG). If the implementation of RFCNAMEG becomes just a bunch of attach calls to the set of `reasonable' # names, and we permit unmount on, say, /ur/console then I'd say that 1 is not a problem. Regarding 2, I don't have an answer (other than keeping #| or changing its semantics---eg. creating pipes by cloning and not by attaching). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 04:34:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 04:34:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20862 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 04:34:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20858 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 04:34:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 04:34:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9E96C19AE4; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:34:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9C34A19ADE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:33:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <7d86b497d19ca0c34390bfa2c0c53c7b@plan9.escet.urjc.es> From: Fco.J.Ballesteros To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] file systems In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ptikwgxosfasojrujsolbjwawb" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 20:33:22 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ptikwgxosfasojrujsolbjwawb Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit /sys/src/cmd/disk/kfs/portdat.h has the data structures. Look for `don't touch, this is the disk structure' warnings. You could also follow the trace resulting from a check call. hth --upas-ptikwgxosfasojrujsolbjwawb Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Mon Feb 24 20:30:32 MET 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 923F219AA9; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:30:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from magnum.cooper.edu (magnum.cooper.edu [199.98.16.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 89EF0199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:29:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from robin.cooper.edu by magnum.cooper.edu with SMTP id AA21275 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>); Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:32:27 -0500 Received: from localhost by robin.cooper.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA17694; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:29:16 -0500 From: Joel Salomon To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] file systems Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:29:16 -0500 (EST) > as simple as inode/superblock/indirect block fs's go Speaking of which, how do I find out how the kfs is laid out on disk? --Joel --upas-ptikwgxosfasojrujsolbjwawb-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 04:39:56 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 04:39:56 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20900 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 04:39:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20896 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 04:39:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 04:39:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9671819AB1; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:39:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailhost.det2.ameritech.net (mailhost1-sfldmi.sfldmi.ameritech.net [206.141.193.105]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8647519AB1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:38:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from ameritech.net ([67.38.11.69]) by mailhost.det2.ameritech.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with ESMTP id <20030224193812.SFRW8853.mailhost.det2.ameritech.net@ameritech.net>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:38:12 -0500 Message-ID: <3E5A7474.4030306@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com Cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] (no subject) References: <3ac8898cbd443116eeeb152a9d5ac1e6@snellwilcox.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:37:24 -0500 RamFS is a nice clean and simple start. Don From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 04:42:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 04:42:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20954 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 04:42:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20950 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 04:42:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 04:42:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2BC7719ADE; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:42:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2E8D719AB5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:41:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.7) with ESMTP id 502316 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 13:41:47 -0600 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] no error checking in strtol and strtoul From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <6d3220b4.0302221730.6677da7@posting.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-tkemoxgmpwoimhgslcxhtjthlc" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 11:41:18 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-tkemoxgmpwoimhgslcxhtjthlc Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please be more specific. I just read the spec and, within the constraints of a different model (no errno), the Plan 9 routines seem to handle overflow fine. If you're asking why it doesn't set errstr, well, it could and that's probably just an oversight. -rob --upas-tkemoxgmpwoimhgslcxhtjthlc Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from killy.mspring.net ([207.69.231.40] verified) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.7) with ESMTP-TLS id 501851 for rob@mail.mightycheese.com; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 04:12:23 -0600 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by killy.mspring.net (8.12.5/8.8.6) with ESMTP id h1OACLXg092770 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 05:12:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5088619A2D; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 05:12:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B127619A31 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 05:11:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18nFPO-0006Et-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:00:26 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Saroj Mahapatra Message-ID: <6d3220b4.0302221730.6677da7@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] no error checking in strtol and strtoul Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:00:21 GMT Hi, Was the decision to leave out error checking (like ANSI C strtol and strtoul do) deliberate? The first type of error (wrong syntax) is easy to check (if ret value == 0 and rest == beginning of string), but not handling overflow situation is unsatisfactory. I'd like to hear plan 9 implementators' comment on this. Thanks, Saroj Mahapatra --upas-tkemoxgmpwoimhgslcxhtjthlc-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 04:50:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 04:50:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21014 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 04:50:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21010 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 04:50:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 04:50:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3083A19AC3; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:50:18 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4009E19AB3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:49:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1b3fe87cf5edd5de4fb773acd0a96244@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] unmount Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 19:51:42 0000 while we're on the subject of namespaces, it would be lovely to be able to temporarily put something in the namespace, and then take it away, without forking the namespace (i.e. undo an arbitrary mount or bind request). i don't know how, though. perhaps one could give every mount a unique id (visible in /proc/$pid/ns, and perhaps as a return from mount) that could then be named in an unmount request. perhaps /proc/$pid/mnt could enumerate all the "mounted from" points in the current name space: % bind -v -b '#|' /tmp 543464 % unmount /proc/$pid/mnt/543464 /dev just a thought. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 04:55:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 04:55:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21083 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 04:55:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21079 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 04:55:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 04:55:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 29EC719ADC; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:55:18 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from edoras.nas.com (edoras.nas.com [206.63.100.8]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6E31A199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:54:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from nas.com (unknown [164.116.190.46]) by edoras.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E20B6EB354 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 11:53:58 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3E5A7855.3000103@nas.com> From: Jack Johnson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.2a) Gecko/20020910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, es MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind References: <3948fb9e208f81859747a83f5be12fd6@mightycheese.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 11:53:57 -0800 rob pike, esq. wrote: > /proto is an odd choice of name and also kinda long. > /ur seems better. one could have the ur-console /ur/console, > etc. But then I'd have to name a host enlil and find a cuneiform font... -J From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 05:09:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 05:09:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21226 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 05:09:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21222 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 05:09:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 05:09:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4B19019AB4; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:09:18 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 549E8199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:08:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.7) with ESMTP id 502384 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:08:34 -0600 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] unmount From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <1b3fe87cf5edd5de4fb773acd0a96244@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:08:05 -0800 every mount has a 'mountid' and this is actually returned by the mount system call. never came up with a good way to use them, but it would be trivial to make an unmount system call that used the id. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 05:10:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 05:10:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21241 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 05:10:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21237 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 05:10:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 05:10:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CB6C919AE1; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:10:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5A72A19AB4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:09:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13864 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:08:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1OK8xM03700 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:08:59 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302242008.h1OK8xM03700@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam filtering In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:14:15 EST." <11deab0d744ff775431cef2a0e8aadd8@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:08:59 -0500 > We've all gotten more metaspam in the last two days > from this list than we have spam. 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From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 06:29:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 06:29:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22159 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 06:29:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22155 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 06:29:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 06:29:37 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E372E19ACF; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 16:29:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-227.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.227]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6ABCB19A3E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 16:28:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] file systems From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 13:28:02 -0800 `The Plan 9 File Server' (in /sys/doc/fs) describes how the pre-fossil standalone file server stores data on disks. kfs is a slight variant of the non-cached-worm file system. The main change I noticed when adapting a private copy of kfs to read standalone file systems was that struct Superb swaps the order of its members, a Super1 and an Fbuf, to permit the size of the free list in Fbuf to vary with block size, which can be chosen at run-time in kfs, but which is fixed at compile-time in the standalone file server. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 06:55:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 06:55:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22326 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 06:55:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22322 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 06:55:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 06:55:38 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 818F919ADC; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 16:55:18 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-227.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.227]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2210D19AA9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 16:54:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <7946c7b28a0de244ac3bff02f3fdca37@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <6d3220b4.0302221754.17fc79a@posting.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] CRLFication (was: libbio and CR-LF) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 13:54:49 -0800 Coincidentally, I just wrote a bidirectional copy with optional CRLFication. I think it's mostly useful for letting shell scripts talk ye olde Internet protocols, but pushing CRLFication out to the edge of the system (to the interface with the network) seems better than requiring programs to understand it natively. Not that this helps with Windows text files particularly. I've also enclosed dial, a script that uses bicp to connect and copy bidirectionally. As its EXAMPLE shows, it can be used to print when lp is broken. # To unbundle, run this file echo bicp sed 's/^X//' >bicp <<'!' X.TH BICP 1 X.SH NAME bicp \- bidirectional copy with optional crlfication X.SH SYNOPSIS X.B bicp X[ X.B -c X] command X[ argument ... ] X.SH DESCRIPTION X.I Bicp copies its standard input to a pipe to X.IR command , and copies from that pipe to its standard output. X.PP Under X.BR -c , X.I bicp also deletes CRs from its standard input and inserts CRs before newlines in its standard output if there are none. This permits ordinary programs (including shell scripts) to serve the usual lousy Internet protocols without having to deal with their silly end-of-line conventions. In effect, this pushes crlfication out to the interface with the network. X.SH EXAMPLES Implement the X.I daytime protocol. X.EE X.ti +0.5i X{echo '#!/bin/rc'; echo exec bicp -c date} >/bin/service/tcp13 X.EX X.\" .SH FILES X.SH SEE ALSO X.IR dial (1), X.IR listen (8) X.SH HISTORY Written by Geoff Collyer. X.SH BUGS Arguably, X.IR listen (8) and X.IR dial (2) should provide crlfication as an optional service. ! echo dial sed 's/^X//' >dial <<'!' X.TH DIAL 1 X.SH NAME dial \- place an outgoing call and run a command on the resulting connection X.SH SYNOPSIS X.B dial X[ X.B -x X] [ X.B -p X] dialstring [ command ] X.SH DESCRIPTION X.I Dial connects to X.I dialstring and runs X.RI ` command X.BR /net/ proto/conn /data ', where X.BR /net/ proto/conn is the network directory of the resultant connection. The default X.I command is X.IR bicp (1). X.B -x uses X.B /net.alt instead of X.BR /net . X.B -p retries (after a pause) until a connection is made. X.PP X.I Dial and X.I bicp provide most of the machinery needed for a simple printer spooler. X.SH EXAMPLES X.EX X# epsps [file...] - emergency printing system; print postscript on $LPDEST aux/download -f -H/sys/lib/postscript/font -mfontmap -plw+ $* | X dial -p tcp!$LPDEST!printer X.EE X.SH FILES X.B /net/tcp subtree of TCP connections X.SH SEE ALSO X.IR bicp (1), X.IR lp (1) X.SH HISTORY Written by Geoff Collyer. ! # To unbundle, run this file echo bicp.c sed 's/^X//' >bicp.c <<'!' X/* X * bicp [-c] cmd [arg ...] - bidirectional copy X * X * copy from stdin to pipe-to-cmd, and simultaneously copy from X * pipe-from-cmd to stdout. Under -c, delete CRs so cmd doesn't see X * them in its input and add CRs before newlines to its output. X * X * stdin & stdout are typically a network connection. this is X * intended to be like a streams line discipline. X */ X#include X#include X#include /* too much context switching with byte-at-a-time i/o */ X#define STREQ(a, b) (*(a) == *(b) && strcmp((a), (b)) == 0) enum { X Pcopy, Pcmd, Npipe, // pipe indices X}; enum { X Stdin, Stdout, Stderr, // pipe indices X}; enum { X Child, X Hackdelay = 500, // in ms X}; static int wasintr, crlfy; static void killmypg(void) X{ X int npf; X char fullnm[64]; X snprint(fullnm, sizeof fullnm, "/proc/%d/notepg", getpid()); X npf = open(fullnm, OWRITE); X if (npf >= 0) { X write(npf, "kill", 4); X close(npf); X } X} static void pipeclose(int pipe[Npipe]) X{ X close(pipe[Pcopy]); X close(pipe[Pcmd]); X} X/* chop line (ln) at CR of CRLF, if present, else at newline */ static void chopateol(Biobuf *bp, char *ln) X{ X int len = Blinelen(bp); X char *eol = &ln[len - 1]; // points at newline X if (len >= 2 && eol[-1] == '\r') X --eol; X *eol = '\0'; X} X// copy net → cmd, optionally deleting CRs static void copyfromnet(int net, int cmd[Npipe]) X{ X char *ln; X Biobuf netbuf, *netb = &netbuf; X Binit(netb, net, OREAD); X while ((ln = Brdline(netb, '\n')) != nil && !wasintr) { X if (crlfy) X chopateol(netb, ln); X else X ln[Blinelen(netb) - 1] = '\0'; X fprint(cmd[Pcopy], "%s\n", ln); X } X Bterm(netb); X} X// copy cmd → net, optionally inserting CRs before newlines static void copytonet(int net, int cmd[Npipe]) X{ X char *ln; X Biobuf cmdbuf, *cmdb = &cmdbuf; X Binit(cmdb, cmd[Pcopy], OREAD); X while ((ln = Brdline(cmdb, '\n')) != nil) { X chopateol(cmdb, ln); X if (crlfy) X fprint(net, "%s\r\n", ln); X else X fprint(net, "%s\n", ln); X } X Bterm(cmdb); X} static void docopy(void (*copy)(int, int [Npipe]), int net, int clfd, int cmd[Npipe]) X{ X close(clfd); X close(Stderr); X close(cmd[Pcmd]); // we aren't the command side X (*copy)(net, cmd); X close(cmd[Pcopy]); // pass on the EOF to command X close(net); // and network X sleep(Hackdelay); // wait for output to drain X killmypg(); // kill other copying process & cmd X exits(0); X} static void forkcopy(void (*copy)(int, int [Npipe]), int net, int clfd, int cmd[Npipe]) X{ X if (rfork(RFPROC|RFFDG|RFNOWAIT) == Child) X docopy(copy, net, clfd, cmd); X} void notifyf(void *, char *s) X{ X if (STREQ(s, "interrupt")) { X wasintr++; X noted(NCONT); X } X killmypg(); X noted(NDFLT); X} static void execcmd(char **argv, int cmd[Npipe]) X{ X char *prog; X char fullnm[256]; X dup(cmd[Pcmd], Stdin); // cross-connected pipe halves X dup(cmd[Pcmd], Stdout); X pipeclose(cmd); X prog = argv[0]; X exec(prog, argv); X if (prog[0] != '/') { X snprint(fullnm, sizeof fullnm, "/bin/%s", prog); X exec(fullnm, argv); X } X killmypg(); X sysfatal("can't exec %s nor %s: %r", prog, fullnm); X} void main(int argc, char *argv[]) X{ X int errflg = 0; X int cmd[Npipe]; X ARGBEGIN { X case 'c': X ++crlfy; X break; X default: X errflg++; X break; X } ARGEND X if (argc <= 0 || errflg) X sysfatal("usage: %s [-c] cmd [arg]...", argv0); X if (pipe(cmd) < 0) X sysfatal("pipe: %r"); X // cmd[0] is the copying side; cmd[1] is the command side X rfork(RFNOTEG); X notify(notifyf); X forkcopy(copyfromnet, Stdin, Stdout, cmd); X if (fork() == Child) X execcmd(argv, cmd); X docopy(copytonet, Stdout, Stdin, cmd); X} ! # To unbundle, run this file echo dial sed 's/^X//' >dial <<'!' X#!/bin/rc X# dial [-x][-p] string [cmd] - place an outgoing call to string and X# run `cmd /net/.../data'. -x uses /net.alt; -p persists. rfork e opt='' persist=no silent=no while (test $#* -gt 0 && ~ $1 -*) { X switch ($1) { X case -x X opt=/net.alt/cs X case -p X persist=yes X case * X echo usage: $0 '[-x][-p] dialstr [cmd]' >[1=2] X exit usage X } X shift X} cmd=bicp # dialcp if (~ $#* 2) X cmd=$2 X# csquery needs an option to shut it up, at the very least. X# prints /net/tcp/clone ip!port conn=`{echo $1 | eval ndb/csquery $opt | sed 's/^> //'} clone=$conn(1) # clone file, opening it yields a ctl file addr=$conn(2) net=`{echo $clone | sed 's;/clone$;;'} X# each open of $clone yields a distinct connection and rc lacks bourne's <>, X# so get connection number from $clone, then open & write its ctl file. X# apparently, closing the clone file drops the connection. while () { X { X # the connection is reserved now X netdir=$net/`{read <[0=3]} X if (echo 'connect '$addr >$netdir/ctl >[2]/dev/null) X if (! ~ `{cat $netdir/remote} 0.0.0.0!0 ::!0) X # no ip v4 nor v6 failure? X # the connection will be established when X # $netdir/data is opened and can fail then. X eval exec $cmd $netdir/data X if (~ $persist yes) { X echo -n . X sleep 5 X } X if not X exit 'conn refused' X } <[3]$clone X} ! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 07:35:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 07:35:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22681 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 07:35:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22677 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 07:35:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 07:35:40 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E531C19ADD; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:35:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from garlic.apnic.net (61-218-65-35.HINET-IP.hinet.net [61.218.65.35]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 18BCF19ADD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:34:30 -0500 (EST) Received: (from ggm@localhost) by garlic.apnic.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h1OMY3t00352; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:34:03 +1000 (EST) From: George Michaelson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind Message-Id: <20030225083403.4dd20ea4.ggm@apnic.net> In-Reply-To: <3203694a344338d2aae59b328b9fe67a@vitanuova.com> References: <3203694a344338d2aae59b328b9fe67a@vitanuova.com> Organization: APNIC Pty Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.10claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--netbsdelf) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:34:03 +1000 well either /// or /... spring to mind as precedents (newcastle connection) -George From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 08:33:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 08:33:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23224 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 08:33:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23220 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 08:33:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 08:33:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 153F019ADD; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:33:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from unix127.hosting-network.com (unknown [66.186.208.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id BC07719ACE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:32:29 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 93774 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2003 23:33:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cc77109e) (203.51.22.88) by node-13.hosting-network.com with SMTP; 24 Feb 2003 23:33:12 -0000 X-Comments: BlackMail headers - Mail to abuse@featureprice.com to report spam. X-Authenticated-Connect: 203.51.22.88 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 18:33:12(EST) on February 24, 2003 X-HELO-From: cc77109e X-Mail-From: X-Sender-IP-Address: 203.51.22.88 Message-ID: <048301c2dc5d$05fcd480$0100000a@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3203694a344338d2aae59b328b9fe67a@vitanuova.com> <20030225083403.4dd20ea4.ggm@apnic.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:32:20 +1100 Research Inferno has an "indirect driver" which provides attach by name rather than magic rune. It's magic rune is * and the mount spec is the name of the sought driver. '#*cons' is equivalent to '#c' This makes scripts and startup code a lot easier to follow, and ns files clearer. e.g. bind -a '#*kprof' /dev It also makes dynamically loadable device drivers with autoallocated magic runes more manageable. brucee From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 14:05:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 14:05:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 673 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 14:05:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 669 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 14:05:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 14:05:40 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7A8AA19AED; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:05:18 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.183]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7349519ADC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:04:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from [212.227.126.205] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18nXH0-00067O-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 06:04:58 +0100 Received: from [219.65.129.54] (helo=agni) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18nXGz-0000JE-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 06:04:58 +0100 From: Martin C.Atkins To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind Message-Id: <20030225100306.7ab01072.martin@mca-ltd.com> In-Reply-To: References: Organization: Mission Critical Applications Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.4claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:03:06 +0530 On Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:25:41 -0500 (EST) Joel Salomon wrote: > How about /# ? > Where is the inferno group Martin said he cross-posted to? > comp.os.inferno seems to be a low traffic spam board. > > --Joel > There is a group on topica. I think this is meant to be the current group, since it was active in January. I cross-posted my article to 'inferno@topica.com', and the list's homepage is at: http://www.topica.com/lists/inferno/ However, my attempts to (re-)subscribe have either been unsuccessful, or there is something wrong with the list, since I haven't received my message back from the list yet! (Is it moderated my someone who is on holiday, perhaps? :-) Martin -- Martin C. Atkins martin@mca-ltd.com Mission Critical Applications Ltd, U.K. http://www.mca-ltd.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 14:06:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 14:06:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 710 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 14:06:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 705 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 14:06:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 14:06:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ED1AD19AEF; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:06:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.177]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B963D19ACF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:05:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from [212.227.126.161] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18nXH9-0006Bg-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 06:05:07 +0100 Received: from [219.65.129.54] (helo=agni) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18nXH7-0005yA-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 06:05:07 +0100 From: Martin C.Atkins To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind Message-Id: <20030225100713.5309c11f.martin@mca-ltd.com> In-Reply-To: <3948fb9e208f81859747a83f5be12fd6@mightycheese.com> References: <3203694a344338d2aae59b328b9fe67a@vitanuova.com> <3948fb9e208f81859747a83f5be12fd6@mightycheese.com> Organization: Mission Critical Applications Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.4claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:07:13 +0530 On Mon, 24 Feb 2003 11:04:21 -0800 "rob pike, esq." wrote: > /proto is an odd choice of name and also kinda long. > /ur seems better. one could have the ur-console /ur/console, > etc. > > -rob > I didn't like 'proto' either, but coming up with a good name is even more difficult than coming up with a good idea :-)! Martin -- Martin C. Atkins martin@mca-ltd.com Mission Critical Applications Ltd, U.K. http://www.mca-ltd.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 14:07:09 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 14:07:09 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 749 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 14:07:09 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 743 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 14:07:02 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 14:07:02 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E3E2519AF3; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:06:30 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.188]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ACD7819ADC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:05:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from [212.227.126.155] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18nXHP-0000sA-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 06:05:23 +0100 Received: from [219.65.129.54] (helo=agni) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18nXHN-0004Yv-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 06:05:22 +0100 From: Martin C.Atkins To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind Message-Id: <20030225103008.5ec58473.martin@mca-ltd.com> In-Reply-To: <3203694a344338d2aae59b328b9fe67a@vitanuova.com> References: <3203694a344338d2aae59b328b9fe67a@vitanuova.com> Organization: Mission Critical Applications Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.4claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:30:08 +0530 On Mon, 24 Feb 2003 19:04:01 0000 rog@vitanuova.com wrote: >... > > a) there's still an escape from the namespace, but a smaller one: > there could be one (and only one) device nameable in the '#' name > space, the proto device. (whether one allows an attach spec is a > matter of taste). that at least would solve some of the naming > problems. > > b) have a special system call for attaching proto. I was hoping to avoid any visibility from user space of the mechanism for attaching /proto. (See my reply to Rob's message) > > martin: > > One could have a /proto/ctl file to which commands could be sent to remove > > (or even add?!) devices from the visibility of this, and inheriting, processes > > (a sort of fine-grained NODEVS). > > this would require that the namespace served by the proto device > was specific to a namespace group. how would the proto device > know to serve the same namespace to a process that's just > done an rfork(RFNAMEG)? Ahh yes - good point. That's one reason why I said that it may be going too far! > you could make it so each attach to '#' (the proto device) gave > you a new instance of that device, so: > > unmount /proto > bind '#' /proto > > would allow changing of availability of devices in /proto > without affecting anything else. > See above.... Martin -- Martin C. Atkins martin@mca-ltd.com Mission Critical Applications Ltd, U.K. http://www.mca-ltd.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 14:07:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 14:07:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 770 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 14:07:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 766 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 14:07:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 14:07:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE5B019AF6; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:06:45 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.177]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C84E119ADC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:05:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from [212.227.126.206] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18nXHH-0006CQ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 06:05:15 +0100 Received: from [219.65.129.54] (helo=agni) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18nXHF-0006Yj-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 06:05:14 +0100 From: Martin C.Atkins To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind Message-Id: <20030225102715.4dc62b6c.martin@mca-ltd.com> In-Reply-To: <7bf536fa6ce3ddbe60a1a94c026d6f7e@mightycheese.com> References: <20030224204958.157fccfe.martin@mca-ltd.com> <7bf536fa6ce3ddbe60a1a94c026d6f7e@mightycheese.com> Organization: Mission Critical Applications Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.4claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:27:15 +0530 On Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:36:42 -0800 "rob pike, esq." wrote: > # file names were just a hack to get started - literally to get started. > They were a place holder until a better idea came along. None has. Ah good - I'm not missing something obvious! > > # was never considered a great idea; I just needed some way to > name an unnamed resource. I deliberately chose # as the character > because it's the comment character in the shell and therefore is > really irritating to use. :-) I had wondered about how important it was to you that the '#' namespace was 'outside' the normal one, but given that things like: echo filsys fs kfs.file >'#Kcons/kfsctl' work, it doesn't seem to me to be such a separate namespace as might be. > Your proposal is interesting but doesn't solve the bootstrap problem. > How would /proto get mounted? You see, the thing about # names > is that they're really not in the name space, and that comes in handy > when booting or creating a name space from scratch, such as in > listen. Since a program can't name the proto driver, how does one > establish a connection to it? I'm sure there's a way; I just wonder > what your plan is. I thought I *had* addressed the bootstrap problem, but obviously it was not clear. I was remembering the new code for startboot that Russ posted on 24th Jan: > void > startboot(char *argv0, char **argv) > { > open(cons, OREAD); > open(cons, OWRITE); > open(cons, OWRITE); > bind(c, dev, MAFTER); > bind(ec, env, MAFTER); > bind(e, env, MCREATE|MAFTER); > bind(s, srv, MREPL|MCREATE); > exec(boot, argv); > for(;;); > } and thinking that the proto driver could be bound by some *internal* magic during the construction of the process before startboot gets started. Thus it should be inherited by every process that hasn't had a parent do "unmount /proto". NB. I don't know any of the details about how this first process gets started (I haven't looked!), and so have no idea how easy/horrible this might be. I am also assuming that all processes are ultimately children of this first process, a la Unix. I hope this is clear now. I did think that having this 'hack' in one place, and not using a system call or other special mechanism from user space would be good for being absolutely certain of the security of "unmount /proto". > > One thing I like about your proposal is that it would make it easier > to import devices from remote machines. One thing I don't like > about your proposal is that it would make it easier to import > devices from remote machines. Yes, I thought about this... both the pros and the cons! > > This all seems so obvious, that I can't understand why it hasn't always > > been done this way! > Many years of thinking, especially when given the ideas made possible > by the incomplete early implementations, can make hard things obvious. and obvious things hard? Yes - I've been there! :-) > -rob > Martin -- Martin C. Atkins martin@mca-ltd.com Mission Critical Applications Ltd, U.K. http://www.mca-ltd.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 14:08:02 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 14:08:02 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 785 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 14:08:02 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 780 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 14:07:59 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 14:07:59 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8B9DB19AFA; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:07:00 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.171]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E1B819AEE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:05:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from [212.227.126.206] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18nXHW-0005F8-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 06:05:30 +0100 Received: from [219.65.129.54] (helo=agni) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18nXHV-0006ZZ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 06:05:30 +0100 From: Martin C.Atkins To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind Message-Id: <20030225103233.2dd5eacd.martin@mca-ltd.com> In-Reply-To: <048301c2dc5d$05fcd480$0100000a@cc77109e> References: <3203694a344338d2aae59b328b9fe67a@vitanuova.com> <20030225083403.4dd20ea4.ggm@apnic.net> <048301c2dc5d$05fcd480$0100000a@cc77109e> Organization: Mission Critical Applications Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.4claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:32:33 +0530 On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:32:20 +1100 "Bruce Ellis" wrote: > Research Inferno has an "indirect driver" which provides > attach by name rather than magic rune. It's magic rune > is * and the mount spec is the name of the sought driver. > > '#*cons' is equivalent to '#c' > Ahh! It's rather funny that I didn't know that! > This makes scripts and startup code a lot easier to follow, > and ns files clearer. e.g. > > bind -a '#*kprof' /dev > > It also makes dynamically loadable device drivers with > autoallocated magic runes more manageable. Indeed! > brucee Martin -- Martin C. Atkins martin@mca-ltd.com Mission Critical Applications Ltd, U.K. http://www.mca-ltd.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 18:07:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 18:07:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9282 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 18:07:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9278 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 18:07:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 18:07:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5692B19AF2; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 04:07:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from netscape.com (r2d2.aoltw.net [64.236.137.26]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BAFD519AEC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 04:06:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from yoda.mcom.com (yoda.ie.office.aol.com [10.128.72.204]) by netscape.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id h1P95nY14729 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 01:05:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from will551 ([10.128.73.153]) by yoda.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id HAUX9W00.O3W for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:05:56 +0000 Message-ID: <1a1301c2dcad$0986b030$9949800a@will551> From: "Conor Williams" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3203694a344338d2aae59b328b9fe67a@vitanuova.com> <20030225103008.5ec58473.martin@mca-ltd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Subject: [9fans] lpdaemon probs Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:05:26 -0000 got acd working successfully through acme - I like the interface - have my big stereo hooked up to the cd drive and line in on and it sounds pretty good! having problems with lpdaemon at the mo - getting a read error: connection lost in the log file when I connect using aux/lpdsend -d myibm -H 10.5.1.20 india18 /tmp/blah or when I set up a new printer which points to myibm and print using lp -d myibmremote /tmp/blah myibm works fine from india18 /tmp/blah is only a small 4 line txt file which prints fine from india18 tx will551 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 19:08:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 19:08:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10799 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 19:08:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10794 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 19:08:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 19:08:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BBD4D19ADC; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 05:08:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-227.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.227]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 93BD9199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 05:07:44 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <816fd75a5b460e6ac48e42f88e829b43@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] lpdaemon probs From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <1a1301c2dcad$0986b030$9949800a@will551> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 02:07:42 -0800 lp is complicated. What are the entries in /sys/lib/lp/devices for your printers? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 20:03:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 20:03:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11760 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 20:03:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11756 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 20:03:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 20:03:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 24C5319AC3; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 06:03:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from anchor-post-39.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-39.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.80]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5C932199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 06:02:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from pr-webmail-1.demon.net ([194.159.244.51] helo=web.mail.demon.net) by anchor-post-39.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #2) id 18ncqx-0002BY-0d for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:02:27 +0000 Received: from cjl1.demon.co.uk ([62.254.170.97]) by web.mail.demon.net with http; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:02:27 +0000 From: chris@cjl1.demon.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: <20030225100713.5309c11f.martin@mca-ltd.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind User-Agent: Demon-WebMail/2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:02:27 +0000 Rather than rog's special special #name for acquiring the local device namespace I'd prefer a syscall. Things in the namespace (named by paths) can be anywhere in the network. Syscalls are tied to the local machine. This seems conceptually cleaner. Other notes: pctl(NODEVS) still allows attach to certain devices such as devpipe and prog. Martin's unmount /ur would prevent an app from killing off any spawned threads or using pipes, which seems draconian. [NOTE: general access to prog is a problem anyway - consider multiple users logged in as 'none' - any one can kill the threads of the others.] From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 20:20:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 20:20:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12037 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 20:20:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12033 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 20:20:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 20:20:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 151BD19AF4; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 06:20:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from anchor-post-39.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-39.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.80]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B704719AB3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 06:19:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from pr-webmail-1.demon.net ([194.159.244.51] helo=web.mail.demon.net) by anchor-post-39.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #2) id 18nd7t-0000RE-0d for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:19:57 +0000 Received: from cjl1.demon.co.uk ([62.254.170.97]) by web.mail.demon.net with http; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:19:57 +0000 From: chris@cjl1.demon.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: <20030225103233.2dd5eacd.martin@mca-ltd.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind User-Agent: Demon-WebMail/2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:19:57 +0000 On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:32:20 +1100 "Bruce Ellis" wrote: > Research Inferno has an "indirect driver" which provides > attach by name rather than magic rune. It's magic rune > is * and the mount spec is the name of the sought driver. > > '#*cons' is equivalent to '#c' > can you ls '#*' to get a list of devices or do you still have to cat /dev/drivers ? Also, you've reminded me of the use of attach name in several of the drivers (e.g. kfs). How do you get an attach name to an underlying device attached through '#*' when you are using the attach name to identify the device? This is also an issue for Martin's "/ur" scheme. The # namespace partitions the initial path element into device id (letter) and attach name, which is used to paramaterise the particular instance of the driver in the namespace. There seems no way of paramaterising device instances in Martin's scheme as there is only ever one instance or am I missing something? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 20:41:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 20:41:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12327 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 20:41:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12323 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 20:41:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 20:41:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C4AD019AE9; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 06:41:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from netscape.com (r2d2.aoltw.net [64.236.137.26]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B92D0199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 06:40:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from yoda.mcom.com (yoda.ie.office.aol.com [10.128.72.204]) by netscape.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id h1PBebY00789 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 03:40:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from will551 ([10.128.73.153]) by yoda.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id HAV4FW00.V00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:40:44 +0000 Message-ID: <1a5401c2dcc2$a8b697a0$9949800a@will551> From: "Conor Williams" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <816fd75a5b460e6ac48e42f88e829b43@collyer.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] lpdaemon probs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:33:08 -0000 ok... dont have the file with me but its something like: myibm - - - /dev/lp2data gs!laserjet!? nospool - - - - # this line isnt quite it but is working perfectly on india18 myibmremote india18 india18 myibm - post+nohead lpdaemon lpd - - FIFO # this line isnt quite it but the log for the lpdaemon on india18 is showing a connection # but then I get the read error: connection lost line... # lpdaemon- just calls aux/lpdsend (it was already there in the spool dir) # lpd is used for the stats... # I get a very similar error when I use aux/lpdsend directly bypassing the above line # for myibmremote # I traced some of the code for the lpdaemon on port 515 - could it be that it doesnt have permissions somewhere? l8r will551 > lp is complicated. What are the entries in /sys/lib/lp/devices for > your printers? > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 21:46:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 21:46:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13204 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 21:46:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13200 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 21:46:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 21:46:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2D67A19ADE; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 07:46:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from work (unknown [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 512A3199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 07:45:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <5237b4594b7c48f39d1b7c0396b8e07a@snellwilcox.com> From: "Steve Simon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] (no subject) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:40:39 0000 Hi, the Plan9 maths library does not appear to have erf() (The error function), or bessel functions of any kind. I can find several implementations on the net but does anyone have any reccomendations for correct (and ideally fast) example? I am tempted to take the edition7 source - though I don't know what kind of licience it is released under. -Steve From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 22:14:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 22:14:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13704 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 22:14:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13700 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 22:14:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 22:14:43 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E17C219AF6; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:14:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0536C19AF6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:13:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8c006acfdac254abfc25527917ec58d0@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bessel From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:15:56 0000 > the Plan9 maths library does not appear to have erf() > (The error function), or bessel functions of any kind. > > I can find several implementations on the net but does > anyone have any reccomendations for correct (and ideally fast) > example? the comments in the implementation that inferno uses for these functions say: /* derived from /netlib/fdlibm */ /* @(#)fdlibm.h 1.5 95/01/18 */ /* * ==================================================== * Copyright (C) 1993 by Sun Microsystems, Inc. All rights reserved. * * Developed at SunSoft, a Sun Microsystems, Inc. business. * Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this * software is freely granted, provided that this notice * is preserved. * ==================================================== */ which might point you at some sort of a reasonable implementation. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 22:58:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 22:58:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14343 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 22:58:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14339 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 22:58:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 22:58:40 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D1CDF19AF2; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:58:24 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D76B19AE9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:57:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h1PE1Qo05695 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:01:26 -0500 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] 00E & projector In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:01:26 -0500 (EST) The TP600E, like many laptops, has 3 modes for display: lcd, lcd+external, and external. I can hook up the laptop to the projector and get a wall display - which is much farther than I thought I'd get off the bat - but when I toggle back to lcd display, the screen goes an eggshell white and I lose the display until reboot. I see little diagonal dots corresponding to the mouse which move about on mouse motion. Toggling back to external just exports this lovely display to the wall. Tips? Cheers, Sam On Sat, 1 Feb 2003, Ronald G. Minnich wrote: > On Sat, 1 Feb 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > > > Are you running your screen at a higher resolution > > than the projector supports? That's what it sounds > > like. It's also possible we screwed up the CRT > > code -- it doesn't get exercised much -- but usually > > if you Fn-F7 to get it working before aux/vga, > > it keeps working. > > Another common problem when you go to graphics mode on older thinkpads -- > there is a "feature" that doesn't work with all projectors in which the > thinkpad hardware tries to autodetect external vga, and won't drive it > unless it detects it. Well, guess what, it didn't always work, as I found > at one conference where I went through three projectors and had to give up > and "talk to my slides" while the audience watched a blank screen for 45 > minutes. I doubt more than 75% of them fell asleep, but I'm an optimist -- > oh, no, wait, I'm not. > > There was a linux utility to fix this on the 570, and I wonder if the same > problem exists on the 600. The linux utility just jammed some random magic > hardware bit and all was well (disabled the hardware mis-feature). > So it can look like a resolution problem but actually be something else. > Best bet is try 640x480 first, and if that doesn't fix it, then the > problem is something else. > > ron > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 23:10:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 23:10:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14679 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 23:10:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14675 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 23:10:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 23:10:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 84C9D19AC3; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:10:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.177]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 15F9019AC3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:09:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from [212.227.126.161] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18nfmF-0000bR-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:09:47 +0100 Received: from [219.65.136.132] (helo=agni) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18nfmE-0006NV-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:09:47 +0100 From: Martin C.Atkins To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind Message-Id: <20030225193133.21c658c1.martin@mca-ltd.com> In-Reply-To: References: <20030225100713.5309c11f.martin@mca-ltd.com> Organization: Mission Critical Applications Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.4claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 19:31:33 +0530 On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:02:27 +0000 chris@cjl1.demon.co.uk wrote: > Rather than rog's special special #name for acquiring the > local device namespace I'd prefer a syscall. Like I've said in another message, I'd prefer there to be no (user-visible) way to mount /ur, only a way to unmount it! >.. > Other notes: > > pctl(NODEVS) still allows attach to certain devices such as devpipe > and prog. Martin's unmount /ur would prevent an app from killing > off any spawned threads or using pipes, which seems draconian. Right. Now I understand the comments in another message... How about this: Before starting the init process, the kernel binds into init's namespace #/ onto / #smallur onto /ur #bigur onto /ur (BEFORE) using the kernel's private, special version of bind, which does understand these names. #smallur would provide names for '#|' etc, and #bigur would provide names for the rest. Then an inheriting process could unmount bigur, but still be able to create pipes, etc. (NB I'm not seriously suggesting these exact names! :-) BTW: why would my unmount /ur prevent an application from killing spawned threads? If the application had #p mounted on /prog, then unmounting /ur wouldn't affect that in any way.... (/ur is only used during the bind of #p etc.) > > [NOTE: general access to prog is a problem anyway - consider multiple > users logged in as 'none' - any one can kill the threads of the others.] Indeed! Martin -- Martin C. Atkins martin@mca-ltd.com Mission Critical Applications Ltd, U.K. http://www.mca-ltd.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 23:10:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 23:10:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14687 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 23:10:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14683 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 23:10:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 23:10:46 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2391519AF5; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:10:33 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.185]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3DB8219AB3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:09:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from [212.227.126.155] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18nfmN-0001qX-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:09:55 +0100 Received: from [219.65.136.132] (helo=agni) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18nfmM-0002Dy-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:09:55 +0100 From: Martin C.Atkins To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind Message-Id: <20030225193653.35400a72.martin@mca-ltd.com> In-Reply-To: References: <20030225103233.2dd5eacd.martin@mca-ltd.com> Organization: Mission Critical Applications Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.4claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 19:36:53 +0530 On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:19:57 +0000 chris@cjl1.demon.co.uk wrote: >... > Also, you've reminded me of the use of attach name in several of > the drivers (e.g. kfs). > How do you get an attach name to an underlying device attached > through '#*' when you are using the attach name to > identify the device? > > This is also an issue for Martin's "/ur" scheme. > The # namespace partitions the initial path element into > device id (letter) and attach name, which is used to paramaterise >... No, I dealt with this when I suggested that '#Dppp/path' would expand to '/proto/shortnames/D/ppp/path'. Of course, this requires some, (perhaps unusually clever) path processing in the proto/ur driver, but who's saying it can't be clever :-) ?! Martin -- Martin C. Atkins martin@mca-ltd.com Mission Critical Applications Ltd, U.K. http://www.mca-ltd.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 23:12:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 23:12:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14713 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 23:12:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14709 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 23:12:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 23:12:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DFD6819AF7; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:12:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A598519ADE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:11:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Feb 25 09:11:43 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Tue Feb 25 09:11:41 EST 2003 Message-ID: <88d55e19d3c1fd25c04ef8921f35413d@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030225193133.21c658c1.martin@mca-ltd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:11:46 -0500 > Like I've said in another message, I'd prefer there to be no (user-visible) > way to mount /ur, only a way to unmount it! How would you implement newns? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 23:19:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 23:19:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14800 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 23:19:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14796 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 23:19:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 23:19:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF2E719AF2; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:19:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.188]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C197919AF3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:18:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from [212.227.126.162] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18nfue-0005pg-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:18:28 +0100 Received: from [219.65.136.132] (helo=agni) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18nfuc-0004wR-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:18:28 +0100 From: Martin C.Atkins To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind Message-Id: <20030225194738.7e15f8c7.martin@mca-ltd.com> In-Reply-To: <88d55e19d3c1fd25c04ef8921f35413d@plan9.bell-labs.com> References: <20030225193133.21c658c1.martin@mca-ltd.com> <88d55e19d3c1fd25c04ef8921f35413d@plan9.bell-labs.com> Organization: Mission Critical Applications Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.4claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 19:47:38 +0530 On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:11:46 -0500 "Russ Cox" wrote: > > Like I've said in another message, I'd prefer there to be no (user-visible) > > way to mount /ur, only a way to unmount it! > > How would you implement newns? > Newns should only work if /proto is mounted, right? Just like it shouldn't work after a pctl(NODEVS). Or is newns more powerful than I had appreciated? Martin -- Martin C. Atkins martin@mca-ltd.com Mission Critical Applications Ltd, U.K. http://www.mca-ltd.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 23:35:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 23:35:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15001 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 23:35:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14997 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 23:35:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 23:35:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 716F119AF9; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:35:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1E6181998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:34:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Feb 25 09:34:08 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Tue Feb 25 09:34:05 EST 2003 Message-ID: <09de352fb60f00b48b0021ebbeb23133@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030225194738.7e15f8c7.martin@mca-ltd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:34:07 -0500 > Newns should only work if /proto is mounted, right? Just like it shouldn't work > after a pctl(NODEVS). Or is newns more powerful than I had appreciated? Newns builds a new name space from scratch. The implementation is in /sys/src/libauth/newns.c. Once newns opens the file describing the name space it is to construct, it clears the name space with rfork(RFNAMEG) and then starts rebuilding. If rfork(RFNAMEG) doesn't clear /ur, then /ur is still a special case. If it does clear /ur, then how do you get it back? Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 23:38:12 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 23:38:12 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15052 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 23:38:11 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15048 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 23:38:11 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 23:38:11 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F63719AFC; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:37:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 23631199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:36:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Feb 25 09:36:18 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Tue Feb 25 09:36:16 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <09de352fb60f00b48b0021ebbeb23133@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:36:22 -0500 > Newns should only work if /proto is mounted, right? Just like it shouldn't work > after a pctl(NODEVS). Or is newns more powerful than I had appreciated? [RFCNAMEG not RFNAMEG] Newns builds a new name space from scratch. The implementation is in /sys/src/libauth/newns.c. Once newns opens the file describing the name space it is to construct, it clears the name space with rfork(RFCNAMEG) and then starts rebuilding. If rfork(RFCNAMEG) doesn't clear /ur, then /ur is still a special case. If it does clear /ur, then how do you get it back? Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Feb 25 23:53:53 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Feb 25 23:53:53 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15301 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Feb 2003 23:53:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15297 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 23:53:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 23:53:36 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 93F1D19AFB; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:53:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 621D7199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:52:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h1PEqpRV030034 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 07:52:51 -0700 Received: (qmail 10401 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2003 07:52:51 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 07:52:51 -0700 Received: (qmail 23912 invoked by uid 3499); 25 Feb 2003 07:52:51 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 25 Feb 2003 07:52:51 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 07:52:51 -0700 (MST) possibly me being a stick-in-the-mud, but so far the /ur ideas seem to be adding new rules with special cases, mountpoints that happen in magic ways, exceptions to things that shouldn't have exceptions (newns), and so on. It's also adding two "special" names (/ur and #) where there used to be one. So far the simplicity of # seems a bit nicer. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 26 00:28:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 26 00:28:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15801 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Feb 2003 00:28:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15797 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2003 00:28:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Feb 2003 00:28:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 934FB199DD; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:28:18 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3D68219AB3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:27:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0c771d299b16e818a40d030108cc19b1@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] fanless Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:27:00 -0500 http://www.via.com.tw/en/Digital%20Library/PR030225EPIA_M10000.jsp From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 26 01:48:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 26 01:48:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17062 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Feb 2003 01:48:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17058 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2003 01:48:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Feb 2003 01:48:38 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F18F219AE9; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:48:21 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from edoras.nas.com (edoras.nas.com [206.63.100.8]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A5EA81998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:47:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from nas.com (unknown [164.116.190.46]) by edoras.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5DE9EB33C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:47:23 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3E5B9E1B.7080706@nas.com> From: Jack Johnson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.2a) Gecko/20020910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, es MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 00E & projector References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:47:23 -0800 Sam wrote: > Tips? Sorry for the long-winded response, but I'm prone to it, and don't know much about your scenario, so here it goes. I deal with pseudorandom laptops and projectors a lot, and *usually* the OS is not the main issue. As Russ said: >>>code -- it doesn't get exercised much -- but usually >>>if you Fn-F7 to get it working before aux/vga, >>>it keeps working. Timing is the key issue. Usually the Fn-whatever combo is a 3-way toggle: LCD, external, or both. With many newer laptops, it will reset the resolution of the external device when you toggle to external-only, so it's not uncommon to find your hardware trying to change resolution to 640x480 at an inconvenient time. With Windows, this usually isn't a big deal, but other OSes don't seem to appreciate the effort, and your sympoms are not uncommon. The trick is to get the hardware into "both" mode before the vga kicks in. It's often easy to wait at a boot prompt while you cruise through the toggle settings, and then let the machine continue to boot. Once the screens are in sync, the OS usually doesn't know or care that there are two monitors dangling off the same machine (Win2k/XP being exceptions with some recent hardware). Ron notes: >>Another common problem when you go to graphics mode on older thinkpads -- >>there is a "feature" that doesn't work with all projectors in which the >>thinkpad hardware tries to autodetect external vga, and won't drive it >>unless it detects it. This kind of goes hand in hand with the timing idea. Some people will fire up their laptop, then either connect the external display device while the laptop is running or while it's asleep, and the external device never gets detected. The 3-way toggle won't seem to work, etc. Besides it being just a bad idea in general to wire up a monitor to a live machine, you will often run into the above problem, and laptops that are prone to buggy autodetection will exhibit this behavior even worse. So, for review, here's the emergency drill: 1) Turn everything off. 2) Plug everything in. 3) Turn on the projector. Pop up a menu or logo screen and focus. Make sure the thing works. 4) Turn on the laptop and get it to pause, either at a boot prompt or (with some models) a BIOS screen, etc. 5) Hit the 3-way toggle until you get a display on both devices. 6) Let the machine continue to boot normally. With projectors that can handle the native resolution of the laptop, I've never had a problem using the above technique. With some older projectors, you may run into refresh rate problems, but usually the device will either show you a flickering or maladjusted image, or eternally display a notice that it's still attempting to sync to the new signal, so that kind of problem will be immediately obvious (as it should have been if you previously saw the bootmessages being projected). If in trouble and in doubt, always try to pick 60 or 75Hz with newer projectors, 67Hz with really old crap. In Plan 9, you'd want to double-check your monitor setting in plan9.ini and potentially do some tweaking. If you're using monitor=lcd, it uses the xga settings and runs at 70Hz, which should be OK for most projectors, but again will vary with age. You could try mulitsync65, otherwise, and then start bumping down the resolution until you get an image (but again, only with an older projector). If your projector has a lower maximum resolution than your laptop display, change the resolution of your laptop's display to match the projector first, then power down and follow the sequence. I have run into a very few, old laptops that won't run at less than their native resolution. Many years ago I remember toiling with a laptop that would not do less than 800x600 on the LCD (other than textmode) trying to drive a projector that wouldn't do more than 640x480. You'd probably have to work hard to get that scenario now. As an extreme last resort, you could always set your BIOS to acknowledge your external video device first, configure it just like you were using a desktop machine, and look over your shoulder during the presentation. Good luck! -Jack From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 26 01:51:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 26 01:51:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17107 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Feb 2003 01:51:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17103 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2003 01:51:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Feb 2003 01:51:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 96BEA19AF6; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:50:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E82A3199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:49:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27373 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:49:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1PGnxM09056 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:49:59 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302251649.h1PGnxM09056@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:36:22 EST." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:49:59 -0500 > > Newns should only work if /proto is mounted, right? Just like it shouldn't work > > after a pctl(NODEVS). Or is newns more powerful than I had appreciated? > > [RFCNAMEG not RFNAMEG] > > Newns builds a new name space from scratch. The implementation > is in /sys/src/libauth/newns.c. > > Once newns opens the file describing the name space it is > to construct, it clears the name space with rfork(RFCNAMEG) > and then starts rebuilding. If rfork(RFCNAMEG) doesn't clear > /ur, then /ur is still a special case. If it does clear /ur, then > how do you get it back? Hmm. I wonder if one can post a file descriptor for a kernel device under /ur ala what srv does. Then, newns() could simply open that file descriptor, clear the namespace, and then mount it. That's not shockingly different from what we do now. Similarly, the bootstrapping case could be handled by having the kernel pass init() an open file descriptor, which it could mount on /ur. I'm not so concerned about being able to remount it in a process (or descendent thereof) that's unmounted it, so I see little difference between ``bigur'' and ``smallur''. If you want /proc, mount it. If you want #|, mount it somewhere, then do your unmount. Environment's might be a little wierd to deal with, though. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 26 03:34:55 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 26 03:34:55 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18423 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Feb 2003 03:34:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18419 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2003 03:34:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Feb 2003 03:34:39 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1111619AF4; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:34:18 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 51F3F199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:33:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] kfs corruption Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 18:35:42 0000 when i run kfs check, i get a load (well, 10) of "address dup" messages. i've also found a couple of corrupted files. there's an intermittent problem with the disk, and i'm in the process of getting it replaced, but in the meantime, it would be nice to fix the kfs. running disk/kfscmd 'check cdt' doesn't seem to fix anything. suggestions? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 26 03:42:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 26 03:42:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18506 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Feb 2003 03:42:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18502 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2003 03:42:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Feb 2003 03:42:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 75E9919AB3; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:42:20 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B9B619ADE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:41:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Feb 25 13:41:21 EST 2003 Received: from 18.24.6.202 ([18.24.6.202]) by plan9; Tue Feb 25 13:41:19 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] kfs corruption From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:41:20 -0500 if it tells you the files that have duplicated addresses you could clri one or both and then check f. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 26 03:58:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 26 03:58:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18624 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Feb 2003 03:58:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18620 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2003 03:58:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Feb 2003 03:58:38 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8035519AF5; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:58:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1ECAF19AB3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:57:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] kfs corruption From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-yugcaxpnitsctuydomzamidruz" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 19:00:26 0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-yugcaxpnitsctuydomzamidruz Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit none of the files are crucial - would it matter if i just clrid all the mentioned adresses? (and then ran check f) note: there are only three files mentioned (one 8 times and the others once only); i'm kind of presuming it only mentions the duplication for the second and subsequent instances. --upas-yugcaxpnitsctuydomzamidruz Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for rog@vitanuova.com id 1046198811:20:11581:5; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 18:46:51 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2127606; 25 Feb 2003 18:46 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DDF1319AED; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:42:18 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B9B619ADE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:41:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Feb 25 13:41:21 EST 2003 Received: from 18.24.6.202 ([18.24.6.202]) by plan9; Tue Feb 25 13:41:19 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] kfs corruption From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:41:20 -0500 if it tells you the files that have duplicated addresses you could clri one or both and then check f. --upas-yugcaxpnitsctuydomzamidruz-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 26 04:09:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 26 04:09:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18705 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Feb 2003 04:09:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18701 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2003 04:09:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Feb 2003 04:09:36 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6893A19AB3; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:09:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5FFE519AB3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:08:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Feb 25 14:08:24 EST 2003 Received: from 18.24.6.202 ([18.24.6.202]) by plan9; Tue Feb 25 14:08:22 EST 2003 Message-ID: <635c7df8e5cadb0b16a1077c730fb732@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] kfs corruption From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:08:24 -0500 you don't clri an address, you clri a file. but yes, if you clri the files, and then run check f, you should have a consistent file system image. of course, if there are more errors than are being reported, you might have to iterate. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 26 04:54:55 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 26 04:54:55 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19226 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Feb 2003 04:54:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19222 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2003 04:54:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Feb 2003 04:54:48 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2195019AC3; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:53:24 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailhost.det2.ameritech.net (mailhost1-sfldmi.sfldmi.ameritech.net [206.141.193.105]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A2207199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:52:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ameritech.net ([67.38.11.69]) by mailhost.det2.ameritech.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with ESMTP id <20030225195254.HZMT8853.mailhost.det2.ameritech.net@ameritech.net> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:52:54 -0500 Message-ID: <3E5BC965.3030901@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 00E & projector References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:52:05 -0500 > > >I toggle back to lcd display, the screen >goes an eggshell white and I lose the display >until reboot. I see little diagonal dots >corresponding to the mouse which move about >on mouse motion. Toggling back to external >just exports this lovely display to the wall. > Ugh... be careful Soon after this started happening on my 600E the LCD blew completely. I have yet to find a replacement. Then again, I'm not looking too hard (but the part number wasn't "available" on IBM's refurbished site (or partner sites)). Don From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 26 04:59:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 26 04:59:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19250 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Feb 2003 04:59:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19246 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2003 04:59:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Feb 2003 04:59:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7451019AF5; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:59:18 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailhost.det2.ameritech.net (mailhost1-sfldmi.sfldmi.ameritech.net [206.141.193.105]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8D15119AEF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:58:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from ameritech.net ([67.38.11.69]) by mailhost.det2.ameritech.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with ESMTP id <20030225195812.IBLK8853.mailhost.det2.ameritech.net@ameritech.net> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:58:12 -0500 Message-ID: <3E5BCAA4.9000009@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:57:24 -0500 > > >It's also adding two "special" names (/ur and #) where there used to >be one. > >So far the simplicity of # seems a bit nicer. > Agreed. A nexus isn't composed of multiple parts. A nexus should be just that, a single access endpoint. Though '#' may be "clunky" it works well and is simple. I like the idea of device names rather than Runes, but, it seems that /ur /whatever and whatnots are even worse hacks over complicating the issue, rather than creating a solid solution. Don > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 26 08:51:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 26 08:51:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21512 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Feb 2003 08:51:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21508 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2003 08:51:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Feb 2003 08:51:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C090219A98; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 18:51:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-227.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.227]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CF07B199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 18:50:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2fe448800f0bb9f4affd7924ad2648b2@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] lpdaemon probs From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <1a5401c2dcc2$a8b697a0$9949800a@will551> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:50:48 -0800 I think we need your /sys/lib/lp/devices file (or at least the entries relevant to your printers), not an approximation, to debug this. There should be a dozen fields in most entries; they should look something like this (all one line): fn 2C-501 olive.cs.bell-labs.com tcp!fn.cs.bell-labs.com!9100 81920 post+600dpi+duplex+hp4simx generic generic generic generic tcppost FIFO Also, could you run this and send us the output: flag x + echo fs $fs fileserver $fileserver 9fs other ls -ld /lp /n/other/lp From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 26 08:54:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 26 08:54:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21568 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Feb 2003 08:54:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21564 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2003 08:54:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Feb 2003 08:54:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E6B2819AA4; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 18:54:19 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E0979199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 18:53:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h1PNmYJ16718; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 17:48:34 -0600 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: , Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: open-forge In-Reply-To: <200302151626.h1FGQeM05724@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 17:48:34 -0600 (CST) On Sat, 15 Feb 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > > Dan, you're a putz and a perfect example of the problem with this end of > > the community. > > Okay, Jim, I'll throw you an olive branch. > > We all know what you find wrong with, ``this end of the community.'' > You've stated that pretty clearly. But what I don't understand is what > you'd like to see this end of the community turn into? Could you > please explain that? Now, I'm really curious, so I'm really asking. Sorry for the long delay, I'm buried... First off, I'm not saying anyone should turn into anything. I've simply made some observations that I've passed along. In fact I recently sent a -specific- list of nine (9) specific issues. If you don't understand that there isn't anything more I can do. Take care. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 26 09:05:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 26 09:05:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21811 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Feb 2003 09:05:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21807 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2003 09:05:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Feb 2003 09:05:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D152919999; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 19:05:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from unix127.hosting-network.com (unknown [66.186.208.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 213AA1998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 19:04:07 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 79064 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2003 00:04:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cc77109e) (144.137.99.45) by node-13.hosting-network.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 2003 00:04:50 -0000 X-Comments: BlackMail headers - Mail to abuse@featureprice.com to report spam. X-Authenticated-Connect: 144.137.99.45 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 19:04:50(EST) on February 25, 2003 X-HELO-From: cc77109e X-Mail-From: X-Sender-IP-Address: 144.137.99.45 Message-ID: <008b01c2dd2a$9cae9fd0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 11:04:00 +1100 > How do you get an attach name to an underlying device attached > through '#*' when you are using the attach name to > identify the device? The Research Inferno devindir uses the syntax: name [ ! spec ] So ... #*cons == #c #*ether!0 == #l0 #*ip!1 == #I1 #*srv!auth == #sauth etc. Note that the driver is very simple. The only code involved is in indirattach() which smashes the spec, scrounges thru devtab, and calls the appropriate attach. Nothing else was changed. brucee From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 26 09:15:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 26 09:15:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22143 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Feb 2003 09:15:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22139 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2003 09:15:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Feb 2003 09:15:36 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 34F8C199BE; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 19:15:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-227.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.227]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1503C199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 19:14:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <39bde31821abe997af2655f362ea25b5@collyer.net> To: 9fans@collyer.net From: Geoff Collyer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Re: CRLFication (was: libbio and CR-LF) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 16:14:17 -0800 I mistakenly shipped a version of dial that uses bicp by default, which won't work yet; bicp needs a little more work. Meanwhile, if you change cmd=bicp # dialcp to cmd=dialcp you'll get better results. I'm enclosing dialcp and diallp, which is specifically intended for PostScript printing. # To unbundle, run this file echo dialcp sed 's/^X//' >dialcp <<'!' X#!/bin/rc X# dialcp net - bidirectional copy between stdin, stdout and net rfork e cat $1 & cat >$1 exstat=$status sleep 1 # wait for any response if (test -e /proc/$apid/note) X echo kill >/proc/$apid/note exit $exstat ! echo diallp sed 's/^X//' >diallp <<'!' X#!/bin/rc X# diallp net - bidirectional copy between stdin, stdout and net (ps printer) rfork es awk ' X/[ ]/ { gsub(/[ ]/, "") } X!/^%\[ / { next } X/''/ { gsub(/''/, "''''") } X { print "echo ''" $0 "''" } X/flushing|Error/ { print "echo kill >/proc/$pid/notepg"; exit } X# /printererror/ X' | rc & cat >$1 exstat=$status sleep 1 # wait for any response if (test -e /proc/$apid/note) X echo kill >/proc/$apid/note exit $exstat ! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 26 14:57:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 26 14:57:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2042 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Feb 2003 14:57:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2038 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2003 14:57:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Feb 2003 14:57:39 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8240D199DD; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 00:57:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D6F481998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 00:56:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h1Q5uKio008115 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:56:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: <008b01c2dd2a$9cae9fd0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 22:06:14 -0800 > So ... > > #*cons == #c > #*ether!0 == #l0 > #*ip!1 == #I1 > #*srv!auth == #sauth > I like '#*' idea. In the interest of considering all possibilities, I was looking up QNX's idea of a node, and its notation which is '//n' where n == 0 means local node. QNX's idea is "the namespace rooted at node n", where nodes ids are statically assigned by administrator, so not directly comparable to '#'. But if there was a way to dynamically define ids for known resource locations, then //n could be used to mean the same thing as '#' on machine n. example: //0/ == #/ //n/cons == #c on machine n etc. Just a thought. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 26 15:21:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 26 15:21:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3079 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Feb 2003 15:21:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3075 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2003 15:21:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Feb 2003 15:21:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 711D2199E8; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 01:21:18 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE04E199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 01:20:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:21:49 +0900 >> So ... >> >> #*cons == #c >> #*ether!0 == #l0 >> #*ip!1 == #I1 >> #*srv!auth == #sauth >> > > I like '#*' idea. I'm wondering why giving a more readable kernel device name is so important. Those will be used only by whom making decision what kind of devices to give to some end users. In the Plan 9 environment, there might be only limitted number of such administrator, and all the others can be 'end users'. Those well educated administrator can refer a table showing one rune charachter device name and long one. Just a kidding. ☺ Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 26 15:23:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 26 15:23:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3150 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Feb 2003 15:23:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3146 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2003 15:23:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Feb 2003 15:23:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 64B3819A98; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 01:23:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.171]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C38A419A2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 01:22:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from [212.227.126.162] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18nuxe-0004lr-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 07:22:34 +0100 Received: from [219.65.134.149] (helo=agni) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18nuxV-0003BC-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 07:22:29 +0100 From: Martin C.Atkins To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind Message-Id: <20030226104243.78c60939.martin@mca-ltd.com> In-Reply-To: <200302251649.h1PGnxM09056@augusta.math.psu.edu> References: <200302251649.h1PGnxM09056@augusta.math.psu.edu> Organization: Mission Critical Applications Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.4claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:42:43 +0530 On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:49:59 -0500 Dan Cross wrote: > > > Newns should only work if /proto is mounted, right? Just like it shouldn't work > > > after a pctl(NODEVS). Or is newns more powerful than I had appreciated? > > > > [RFCNAMEG not RFNAMEG] > > > > Newns builds a new name space from scratch. The implementation > > is in /sys/src/libauth/newns.c. Right. I forgot about RFCNAMEG, and assumed that it just read /prog/pid/ns and unmounted it found there! But... > > Once newns opens the file describing the name space it is > > to construct, it clears the name space with rfork(RFCNAMEG) > > and then starts rebuilding. If rfork(RFCNAMEG) doesn't clear > > /ur, then /ur is still a special case. If it does clear /ur, then > > how do you get it back? > > Hmm. I wonder if one can post a file descriptor for a kernel > device under /ur ala what srv does. Then, newns() could simply > open that file descriptor, clear the namespace, and then mount > it. That's not shockingly different from what we do now. This sounds neat to me. It's not really a special case any more, just the application of a general mechanism. (I don't like special cases either! :-) > Similarly, the bootstrapping case could be handled by having the > kernel pass init() an open file descriptor, which it could mount > on /ur. I'm not so concerned about being able to remount it in > a process (or descendent thereof) that's unmounted it, so I see > little difference between ``bigur'' and ``smallur''. If you > want /proc, mount it. If you want #|, mount it somewhere, then > do your unmount. Environment's might be a little wierd to deal > with, though. Agreed! That was exactly my point of view too - I only suggested smallur to show that there are several possible approaches. > > - Dan C. > Re: /ur introducing more special cases than it removes: I believe that most of the new special cases are to continue the support for the old '#' syntax. During the transition period, there would of course be more complications, since both the old and the new syntaxes have to work simultaneously! However, once backwards compatibility for '#' could be removed completely, then using Dan's suggestion, I would have thought the '/ur' approach would be gloriously free of special cases (except perhaps, the fact that init is spawned with an open file descriptor). Anyway, the whole thing was just a suggestion/idea/question, and the discussion has been educational for me, at least. (It sure beats spam and "how do we avoid spam" messages, however important the later might be! :-) Martin -- Martin C. Atkins martin@mca-ltd.com Mission Critical Applications Ltd, U.K. http://www.mca-ltd.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 26 18:59:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 26 18:59:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10240 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Feb 2003 18:59:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10236 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2003 18:59:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Feb 2003 18:59:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CFBD719AA8; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 04:59:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8381019999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 04:58:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18nyBR-0003mQ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:49:01 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Pete St. Marie" Message-ID: Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <0c771d299b16e818a40d030108cc19b1@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] fanless Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:48:06 GMT Is it confirmed that plan9 will run on this board; at least video and network? Thanks, --pete jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote in message news:<0c771d299b16e818a40d030108cc19b1@plan9.bell-labs.com>... > http://www.via.com.tw/en/Digital%20Library/PR030225EPIA_M10000.jsp From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 26 21:46:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 26 21:46:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13172 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Feb 2003 21:46:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13168 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2003 21:46:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Feb 2003 21:46:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ACEB319A02; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 07:46:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from work (unknown [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8BA57199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 07:45:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: "Steve Simon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] erf etc Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 12:40:54 0000 Aw hell, Made a fool of myself again. erf, y[01n], j[01n], and gamma are all in the APE maths library on Plan9 Thanks to all for the sugestions of where to get the source anyway. The only wrinkle is that they don't appear in maths.h so I get fp stack faults when I try to us them - adding prototypes in my code solved the problem. Those who know about standards may disagree but shouldn't their prototypes go in maths.h Also is there a reason they didn't make it into the plan9 libc.a & libc.h? -Steve From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 26 22:33:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 26 22:33:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13871 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Feb 2003 22:33:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13867 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2003 22:33:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Feb 2003 22:33:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DBE8A19AA8; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 08:33:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from dircon.co.uk (host217-44-92-127.range217-44.btcentralplus.com [217.44.92.127]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3EA9B19AA8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 08:32:34 -0500 (EST) Received: (from digbyt@localhost) by dircon.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA02827 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 13:32:09 GMT Message-Id: <200302261332.NAA02827@dircon.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind In-Reply-To: from "okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp" at "Feb 26, 2003 03:21:49 pm" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Digby Tarvin X-Face: &(//%&/WHJk7>_lW'@YYeED-qsdBV8&h3_Hpn/0.9_=}vTk}5u/2l=Mx&rX!\.i9X{(S@nk[we'a|IX#|?jmh`(j}a+\C5/> %DpYTPd<7jF2V b[Z.TjttL[FMm_$Z$^#qd62A:T.qw7}0S\o.Or_|I 2t~t0D=eCU"S?ls%(Ro X-Pgp-Key-Fingerprint: 61 E7 39 FE 4A F4 CA F3 F5 5E BB 45 26 EC 36 3C X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL70 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: digbyt@acm.org (Digby Tarvin) List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 13:32:08 +0000 (GMT/BST) More readable kernel device names sounds all very nice, but what I think would be more beneficial is adopting a solution which reduces the number of arbitrary name spaces. It seems to me that the Plan9 name space can be viewed as one process local tree rooted at '/', plus a forest of global trees rooted at '#'. Is there any reason why that could not be cut down (no pun intended) to one local and one global tree. So, for instance, '#c' becomes '#/c' and 'ls #/' provides a listing of available devices? Or perhaps the naming conventiones that should be adopted for the 'global' namespace could be '//c', or even '#c' for syntactic consistency (where the interpretation changes from a root called '#c' to a directory 'c' in the root '#') Of course more readable names could still be used if desired. Or we could even add a new device file called something like 'description' which when read describes the device. The educated administrator's table could then be produced on demand by the simple command: cat '#*/description' (using syntax proposal 3) Regards, DigbyT >I'm wondering why giving a more readable kernel device name is so important. >Those will be used only by whom making decision what kind of devices to give >to some end users. In the Plan 9 environment, there might be only limitted >number of such administrator, and all the others can be 'end users'. >Those well educated administrator can refer a table showing one rune >charachter device name and long one. > >Just a kidding. b^X: > >Kenji -- Digby R. S. Tarvin digbyt@acm.org http://www.cthulhu.dircon.co.uk From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 26 22:59:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 26 22:59:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14264 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Feb 2003 22:59:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14260 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2003 22:59:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Feb 2003 22:59:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B18A619AB3; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 08:59:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0FCCC199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 08:58:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Feb 26 08:58:55 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Wed Feb 26 08:58:53 EST 2003 Message-ID: <5079176169a98c173f6c1097e6369a30@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <200302261332.NAA02827@dircon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 08:58:53 -0500 > Of course more readable names could still be used if desired. > Or we could even add a new device file called something like > 'description' which when read describes the device. man pages. having full names would make the man pages easier to use. perhaps intro(3) should mention or include /sys/src/9/port/master. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 26 23:15:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 26 23:15:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14535 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Feb 2003 23:15:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14531 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2003 23:15:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Feb 2003 23:15:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AECC719ADE; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:15:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0F65B19AC9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:14:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Feb 26 09:14:03 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Wed Feb 26 09:14:00 EST 2003 Message-ID: <70b1be7bf1a870538ecd7c40d8b83810@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <200302261332.NAA02827@dircon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:14:00 -0500 Here's a different proposal, also just an idea rather than a complete proposal, but perhaps worth pursuing. Suppose you recentered the kernel around 9P, building a muxer that wasn't process-based like devmnt's currently is. Then you could have two system calls int exportfs(void); int exportdev(void); that return file descriptors. The file descriptor returned by exportfs gives you a private 9P conversation operating on your current name space. You could post it or do anything else with it, just like the similar call in inferno. Exportdev() would return a 9P file descriptor but for the devices. You mount it to get the device tree. (Perhaps mounting with a spec like "#l0" gets you a specific device; maybe the spec should be a path in the device tree like "/ether/0".) Rfork(RFNODEV) (nee RFNOMNT) would cause exportdev to fail, preventing access to devices not in the name space. The underlying kernel interface to drivers would have to change -- they'd all need to process 9P messages, so probably there would be a wrapper that let them be implemented in the style they currently are. But some devices (for example, the disk devices) might choose to deal in 9P directly so that they can access the request queue and perhaps behave more efficiently. If you're not careful there might be problems with data getting copied more often than it needs to. For example right now I believe that a raw write to the screen image via /dev/draw copies from the user space buffer directly into video memory. It would be unfortunate if we lost that (though loadimage does its own user-space copy first anyway). Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 26 23:27:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 26 23:27:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14933 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Feb 2003 23:27:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14929 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2003 23:27:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Feb 2003 23:27:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4F0F219AE6; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:27:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from work (unknown [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7FF4A19AB6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:26:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <80033b3bc85e1e5d0e0694b1623a66eb@snellwilcox.com> From: "Steve Simon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] kernel debug - how Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:22:24 0000 Hi How do I debug the kernel? All I want to do is enable floppydebug in a running kernel. /sys/src/9/pc/devfloppy.c:42 int floppydebug = 0; -Steve From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 26 23:34:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 26 23:34:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15049 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Feb 2003 23:34:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15045 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2003 23:34:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Feb 2003 23:34:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E420619AF3; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:34:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.119.131.80]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9AF4F19AE9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:33:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (boyd@zode.strakt.com [62.119.131.76]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h1QEXCxw026459 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:33:12 +0100 Message-ID: <3E5CD027.40808@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020623 Debian/1.0.0-0.woody.1 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind References: <70b1be7bf1a870538ecd7c40d8b83810@plan9.bell-labs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:33:11 +0100 Russ Cox wrote: >Here's a different proposal, also just an idea rather >than a complete proposal, but perhaps worth pursuing. > > Yes I was thinking of a similar (non file-system) interface that provided a descriptor to access/modify your namespace. Your idea certainly seems to be on the right track. I would imagine that if it's a fd it could then be used to pass a namespace to related and un-related processes. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 26 23:35:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 26 23:35:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15061 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Feb 2003 23:35:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15057 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2003 23:35:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Feb 2003 23:35:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3415F19AEF; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:35:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D973819AF4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:34:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Feb 26 09:34:37 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Wed Feb 26 09:34:35 EST 2003 Message-ID: <07c615ea6bbe0b48d28019e1c0f3249c@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] kernel debug - how From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <80033b3bc85e1e5d0e0694b1623a66eb@snellwilcox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:34:34 -0500 You can debug the kernel with acid -k but there is no way to write to kernel memory. However, you can set that variable by doing echo debug >/dev/fd0ctl (There is no way to change it back to zero after that, which is itself a bug.) Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Feb 26 23:54:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Feb 26 23:54:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15282 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Feb 2003 23:54:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15278 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2003 23:54:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Feb 2003 23:54:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2374D19AFD; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:54:18 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2188419AF4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:53:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:56:18 0000 > Suppose you recentered the kernel around 9P, > building a muxer that wasn't process-based > like devmnt's currently is. one would also have to make devices more rigorous about use of "writing process" resources, as presumably the device driver would no longer have access to the user area of the process producing the request, as would it not be necessary to send all 9p requests to a driver down a Chan associated with that driver (and presumably every driver would have at least one process reading 9p requests)? so you'd be unable to post a file descriptor to /srv by writing its integer file descriptor. similarly you'd have to think of another way to give fs(3) access to files to multiplex, or to give bind in ip(3) a device to bind an interface to. perhaps a system call to post a file descriptor to part of the namespace? but that comes with its own problems. you'd lose a certain amount in context switch time too, which wouldn't matter so much for some devices but might be a significant overhead in others. all those rough edges... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 27 00:03:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 27 00:03:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15428 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Feb 2003 00:03:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15424 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2003 00:03:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Feb 2003 00:03:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B256519AF5; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:03:18 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B8272199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:02:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Feb 26 10:02:50 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Wed Feb 26 10:02:48 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:02:53 -0500 like i said, there's plenty to be thought through. right now devmnt is the special case. there may be merit to turning things around so that devmnt is not a special case (it's not clear devmnt would exist at all as a driver) and devsrv and devfs are. maybe those special cases wouldn't be exportable, which seems reasonable. it certainly seems like a bug that you can do: srvfs foo / mount /srv/foo /n/kremvax echo 0 >/n/kremvax/srv/foo0 echo hello world >>/n/kremvax/srv/foo0 to completely screw up exportfs's file service. another student and i at mit may walk further down this path in a few months. i also think that a good 9p mux is the right way to build drawterm, so it looks like we're going to try that first. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 27 00:29:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 27 00:29:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15793 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Feb 2003 00:29:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15789 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2003 00:29:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Feb 2003 00:29:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8218F19AF3; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:29:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B592E19999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:28:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h1QFSmRV022387 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 08:28:48 -0700 Received: (qmail 24545 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2003 08:28:48 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2003 08:28:48 -0700 Received: (qmail 1271 invoked by uid 3499); 26 Feb 2003 08:28:48 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 26 Feb 2003 08:28:48 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind In-Reply-To: <3E5CD027.40808@strakt.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 08:28:48 -0700 (MST) On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Boyd Roberts wrote: > Russ Cox wrote: > > >Here's a different proposal, also just an idea rather > >than a complete proposal, but perhaps worth pursuing. > > > > > Yes I was thinking of a similar (non file-system) interface > that provided a descriptor to access/modify your namespace. > > Your idea certainly seems to be on the right track. > > I would imagine that if it's a fd it could then be used > to pass a namespace to related and un-related processes. This is actually how I did the old v9fs on Linux. To create a name space you opened a "thing" that gave you an fd -- essentially the equivalent of the mount device. To create other things (directories to mount things in, etc.) in the name space you did ioctl (sorry, it was all I had) that set up unions, mountpoints, etc., etc. To turn one of these off you closed the fd for the corresponding thing, and it got removed from your name space. Inheritance was easy. If you left the fd open for the kid, kid gets namespace. If you didn't leave the fd open, kid gets clean name space. It is pretty handy. The only issue is working out "what fd is what thing" and I never had the time to make that easily figured out by users -- hence I did not get to an equivalent of the ns command. It all went away in the name of simplicity when we ported to 2.4, but I still miss it sometimes! ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 27 01:36:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 27 01:36:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16769 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Feb 2003 01:36:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16765 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2003 01:36:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Feb 2003 01:36:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2B5C219988; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 11:36:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AB7CE19A98 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 11:35:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18o4VK-00008r-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:33:58 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3E5CE9E6.8C15961B@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Subject: Re: [9fans] erf etc Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:33:53 GMT Steve Simon wrote: > erf, y[01n], j[01n], and gamma are all in the APE maths library on Plan9 > Those who know about standards may disagree but shouldn't their > prototypes go in maths.h Sure, just so long as they don't get declared by default in . You may not have been around for the big problem we had on Unix variants with "name space pollution" in the system headers. Cleaning that up was one of the important goals of the C standard. Now the rule is: standard headers define & declare only what the standard says they do, with a couple of classes of names reserved (e.g. is* in ), except that implementations have a set of names starting with underscore that they can add if they think they have some need to do so. In other words, if you add functions, use a new header. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 27 03:01:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 27 03:01:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17741 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Feb 2003 03:01:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17737 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2003 03:01:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Feb 2003 03:01:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0175619A02; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 13:01:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8241019AA4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 13:00:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Feb 26 13:00:14 EST 2003 Received: from 18.24.6.202 ([18.24.6.202]) by plan9; Wed Feb 26 13:00:12 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] erf etc From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <3E5CE9E6.8C15961B@null.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 13:00:12 -0500 I added them to /*/include/ape/math.h, in the _RESEARCH_SOURCE section. (Meaning you have to compile with -D_RESEARCH_SOURCE to get those declarations.) Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 27 06:28:07 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 27 06:28:07 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19470 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Feb 2003 06:27:56 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19466 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2003 06:27:56 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Feb 2003 06:27:56 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3419519AA8; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:27:19 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (mail.math.Princeton.EDU [128.112.18.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7CBE719A6B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:26:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from fine1008.math.princeton.edu (fine1008.math.princeton.edu [128.112.16.123]) by Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h1QLQZ116227 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:26:35 -0500 Received: from fine1008.math.princeton.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fine1008.math.princeton.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h1QLQYO23923 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:26:35 -0500 Message-Id: <200302262126.h1QLQYO23923@fine1008.math.princeton.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind From: John Stalker Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:26:34 -0500 In some sense # has to be a special case. The / hierarchy is (potentially) different for each process. The # hierarchy is not. You need a global namespace from which to choose what to include in a local namespace. At least you do if you want children to be able to bind things which were not in their parents' name spaces. /ur or variants thereof in some sense hide a copy of the global namespace inside the local one. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is partially a matter of aesthetics. Since I actually like ed(1) my opinion in questions of aesthetics should be regarded as worthless. -- John Stalker Department of Mathematics Princeton University (609)258-6469 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 27 07:45:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 27 07:45:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20340 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Feb 2003 07:45:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20336 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2003 07:45:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Feb 2003 07:45:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 10B1F19A6B; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:45:19 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from 9srv.net (ip-64-32-179-37.dsl.nyc.megapath.net [64.32.179.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D07619988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:44:47 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:44:22 -0500 // perhaps intro(3) should mention or include /sys/src/9/port/master. then again, perhaps port/master should be up to date? ã‚¢ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 27 08:03:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 27 08:03:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20553 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Feb 2003 08:03:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20549 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2003 08:03:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Feb 2003 08:03:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3585019988; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 18:03:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E986019ADE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 18:02:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Feb 26 18:02:22 EST 2003 Received: from 18.24.6.202 ([18.24.6.202]) by plan9; Wed Feb 26 18:02:19 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 18:02:19 -0500 > then again, perhaps port/master should be up to date? it is. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 27 08:50:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 27 08:50:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21172 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Feb 2003 08:50:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21168 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2003 08:50:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Feb 2003 08:50:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4E0B919ADE; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 18:50:18 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from 9srv.net (ip-64-32-179-37.dsl.nyc.megapath.net [64.32.179.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6918219A2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 18:49:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <779f4657ce33606633a046f8a8f23892@9srv.net> From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 18:46:10 -0500 i stand (gladly) corrected. thanks. i'm a bit behind on my updates. i was about to say "well then maybe we should come up with an automated way to ensure it stays that way" but actually thought to check this time. sure enough, looks like rsc's though of that, too. more thanks. ã‚¢ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 27 13:27:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 27 13:27:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31336 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Feb 2003 13:27:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31331 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2003 13:27:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Feb 2003 13:27:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D3C419AB6; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 23:27:19 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2786B19AA4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 23:26:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h1R4UJo10578 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 23:30:19 -0500 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <779f4657ce33606633a046f8a8f23892@9srv.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] device drivers and the live loader Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 23:30:19 -0500 (EST) While we're on the subject of devices, how are we doing on (un)loadable device drivers? Wasn't someone working on that? Cheers, Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 27 17:31:57 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 27 17:31:57 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8926 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Feb 2003 17:31:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8913 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2003 17:31:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Feb 2003 17:31:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE3FD19AA4; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 03:31:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE84E19999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 03:30:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4a4d7a917c90dae841515d955887cc94@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A proposal regarding # in bind From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <200302262126.h1QLQYO23923@fine1008.math.princeton.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:29:59 +0100 > In some sense # has to be a special case. The / hierarchy is (potentially) > different for each process. The # hierarchy is not. You need a global > namespace from which to choose what to include in a local namespace. At least This suggests that we could just keep a separate (per machine) namespace with all devices attached on it. You could mount it, then bind whatever you want from there to "/ur", then unmount /n/devs if you dont want that to be there. This would require also a change in devices like #| that build resources on attach. But after all the discussion, I just think that keeping '#' is the simplest answer. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 27 18:51:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 27 18:51:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11268 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Feb 2003 18:51:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11264 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2003 18:51:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Feb 2003 18:51:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D5D8919A9C; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 04:51:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C112919A9C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 04:50:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18oKVJ-0003jj-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:39:01 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Robby Message-ID: Organization: Unorganised Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] Drawterm or VMWare terminal? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:35:04 GMT Hi, I am wondering if it is worthwhile to boot a VMWare Plan 9 at work from my home network or if using drawterm is better. I have a CPU/Auth server sitting in my home network behind a NAT router with port forwarding (Netgear RT311). At the moment I am forwarding ports 567 and 17013 to the CPU/Auth server and I can use drawterm on my NT box at work to connect. I have also started playing with VMWare. Would it be sensible to boot a proper terminal across the long wires of the internet? Which ports would I need to forward and how much does that open my local home network up to the world? As far as I can see, two options are available for running the terminal under VMWare: 1. Boot a VMWare local 9pc kernel, but take the root from il. 2. Get the kernel from my home server as well. With just the two ports 567 and 17013 forwarded, I can't get the VMWare kernel to connect to my home server. At the question "root is from (il, local):" I type "il", and then get asked about my filesystem and auth server IP addresses, to which I provide the IP address to my router. I then get a "boot: can't connect to file server: protocol unreachable" error. Thanks for any help, Robby From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 27 18:55:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 27 18:55:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11348 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Feb 2003 18:55:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11344 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2003 18:55:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Feb 2003 18:55:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C77E419AEF; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 04:55:20 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 37D1B19AE6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 04:54:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18oKVJ-0003jp-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:39:01 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Ralph Corderoy Message-ID: <2dd1.3e5d5178.e2e56@blake.inputplus.co.uk> Organization: InputPlus Ltd. References: <20030215193747.11670.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu>, <20030215123941.K58372@fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> Subject: Re: [9fans] presentation preparation Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:35:17 GMT Hi andrey, > Another suggestion at the time was to use troff :) Bob Diertens' http://www.science.uva.nl/~bobd/useful/gpresent/ is useful for producing PDF presentations using GNU troff. Cheers, -- Ralph Corderoy. http://inputplus.co.uk/ralph/ http://troff.org/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 27 19:01:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 27 19:01:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11543 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Feb 2003 19:01:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11539 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2003 19:01:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Feb 2003 19:01:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 78B1C19AC9; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 05:01:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from netscape.com (r2d2.aoltw.net [64.236.137.26]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5C56C19AA4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 05:00:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from yoda.mcom.com (yoda.ie.office.aol.com [10.128.72.204]) by netscape.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id h1RA03R29780 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 02:00:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from will551 ([10.128.73.153]) by yoda.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id HAYP4B00.K2P for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:00:11 +0000 Message-ID: <032301c2de46$ee289830$9949800a@will551> From: "Conor Williams" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <2fe448800f0bb9f4affd7924ad2648b2@collyer.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] lpdaemon probs (fix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:59:34 -0000 hey Geoff thanks for youre interest... got it running last night - spent half the night hacking the lpdaemon.c code (/root/sys/src/cmd/lp) and traced the problem to the fork and exec - which didnt seem to be running - so ran touch and that worked then watched the processes being spawned on the server and found that lp was being spawned... so eventually after trying differnt things traced the problem to the namespace... what happened was the parallel port wasnt bound for user none coming into the box... so a bind -a '#'L2 /dev in the /rc/bin/service/tcp515 file before the lpdaemon line fixed it... jumping around the room last night!! This fixed the "read error: connection lost line" aswell! So I can now print from my diskless terminal to my server which has the printer hanging out of its parallel port. Q. Has no-one come across that before? The devices file I had created was actually ok (it is quite similar to the one I posted) l8r will551 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Collyer" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 11:50 PM Subject: Re: [9fans] lpdaemon probs > I think we need your /sys/lib/lp/devices file (or at least the entries > relevant to your printers), not an approximation, to debug this. > There should be a dozen fields in most entries; they should look > something like this (all one line): > > fn 2C-501 olive.cs.bell-labs.com tcp!fn.cs.bell-labs.com!9100 81920 post+600dpi+duplex+hp4simx generic generic generic generic tcppost FIFO > > Also, could you run this and send us the output: > > flag x + > echo fs $fs fileserver $fileserver > 9fs other > ls -ld /lp /n/other/lp > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 27 19:12:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 27 19:12:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11972 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Feb 2003 19:12:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11968 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2003 19:12:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Feb 2003 19:12:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9FE6519AE6; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 05:12:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from unix127.hosting-network.com (unknown [66.186.208.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B02F719A2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 05:11:46 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 7422 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2003 10:12:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cc77109e) (144.137.99.45) by node-13.hosting-network.com with SMTP; 27 Feb 2003 10:12:29 -0000 X-Comments: BlackMail headers - Mail to abuse@featureprice.com to report spam. X-Authenticated-Connect: 144.137.99.45 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 05:12:29(EST) on February 27, 2003 X-HELO-From: cc77109e X-Mail-From: X-Sender-IP-Address: 144.137.99.45 Message-ID: <015101c2de48$abc65a70$c901a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] device drivers and the live loader Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 21:11:56 +1100 > While we're on the subject of devices, how are > we doing on (un)loadable device drivers? Wasn't > someone working on that? I did it for Research Inferno. Works well. You'll find that 5l and el have the right options. I did 8l first but it ain't in the tree. brucee From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 27 23:21:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 27 23:21:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16329 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Feb 2003 23:21:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16325 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2003 23:21:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Feb 2003 23:21:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 741FE19AEF; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:21:19 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D53A19ADE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:20:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18oOib-00038Q-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 14:09:01 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Christian Grothaus Message-ID: <3e5e1646_2@news.uni-bielefeld.de> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <8ef9380a.0302181010.5b1f969f@posting.google.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 14:08:07 GMT andrey mirtchovski wrote: > ps: the new IBM R30+ laptops all come with Radeon7500 graphics. If mine > arrives soon I may report on experiences with that :) BTW: Has anyone tried the Thinkpad R31? AFAIK, it uses Intel 830MG integrated graphics. Is this chipset (partly) supported? (I couldn't find out whether it is compatible with a supported Intel chipset.) Thanks Christian From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 27 23:43:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 27 23:43:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16692 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Feb 2003 23:43:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16688 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2003 23:43:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Feb 2003 23:43:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 81DCA19AF2; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:43:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 06EBE19A2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:42:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Feb 27 09:42:33 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Thu Feb 27 09:42:31 EST 2003 Message-ID: <03c0815c70324a38dbb0748b39176d20@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Drawterm or VMWare terminal? From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:42:34 -0500 It depends on the details of your network, and on personal preferences. If drawterm works well then VMware might be overkill, but if it doesn't then VMware might save you. Drawterm requires a lower-latency network to feel good than a real Plan 9 terminal typically does, because drawterm only displays graphics while a real Plan 9 terminal runs at least rio and perhaps your other apps locally. You need to recompile your kernel to get tcp support. In the section that says boot boot #S/sdC0/ il local you should change it to say boot boot #S/sdC0/ il tcp local and then you can choose "tcp" as the boot method. In addition to 567, you need to open port 564, which is the 9fs tcp port. You also need to make sure your kfs is listening, with disk/kfscmd 'listen tcp!*!564' Then you should be able to boot. Another consideration is that using drawterm will encrypt your sessions. Using a terminal will encrypt your cpu sessions but not your file system traffic. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 27 23:50:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 27 23:50:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16834 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Feb 2003 23:50:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16830 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2003 23:50:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Feb 2003 23:50:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B78A519AF3; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:50:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7090419AF4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:49:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA19508 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:49:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1REnjM20907 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:49:45 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302271449.h1REnjM20907@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Drawterm or VMWare terminal? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:42:34 EST." <03c0815c70324a38dbb0748b39176d20@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:49:45 -0500 > you should change it to say > > boot boot #S/sdC0/ > il > tcp > local > > and then you can choose "tcp" as the boot method. Just out of curiousity; why isn't this built into the kernel by default? It strikes me as useful for phasing out il. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Feb 27 23:55:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Feb 27 23:55:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16910 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Feb 2003 23:55:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16906 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2003 23:55:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Feb 2003 23:55:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5472119AF9; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:55:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7CB5619AD7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:54:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Feb 27 09:54:09 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Thu Feb 27 09:54:06 EST 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Drawterm or VMWare terminal? From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <200302271449.h1REnjM20907@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:54:03 -0500 > Just out of curiousity; why isn't this built into the kernel by > default? It strikes me as useful for phasing out il. since we're not there yet, it hasn't been necessary for us. we have not switched the main bell labs file server to fossil yet. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 28 00:12:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 28 00:12:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17172 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Feb 2003 00:12:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17168 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2003 00:12:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Feb 2003 00:12:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D3B219988; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:12:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3084719AED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:11:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22845 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:11:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1RFBFM21109 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:11:15 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302271511.h1RFBFM21109@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Drawterm or VMWare terminal? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:54:03 EST." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:11:15 -0500 > > Just out of curiousity; why isn't this built into the kernel by > > default? It strikes me as useful for phasing out il. > > since we're not there yet, it hasn't been necessary for us. > we have not switched the main bell labs file server to > fossil yet. Granted, but it wouldn't hurt to add it now, would it? It strikes me that it'd be useful for, e.g., people trying to talk to fileservers through firewalls or trampolining through CPU servers. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 28 00:20:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 28 00:20:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17253 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Feb 2003 00:20:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17249 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2003 00:20:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Feb 2003 00:20:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1353219AFC; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:20:20 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F13B19AFB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:19:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Feb 27 10:19:37 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Thu Feb 27 10:19:35 EST 2003 Message-ID: <7a8afbd9fef19cc7b48d2d5d82d71e8b@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Drawterm or VMWare terminal? From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <200302271511.h1RFBFM21109@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:19:40 -0500 > Granted, but it wouldn't hurt to add it now, would it? It strikes me > that it'd be useful for, e.g., people trying to talk to fileservers > through firewalls or trampolining through CPU servers. You originally asked "why isn't it there?" not "why not add it?". They are different questions. I wasn't arguing against adding it. I was explaining why it wasn't there. I have now added tcp to the pc, pccpu, pcauth, and pcdisk config files. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 28 00:43:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 28 00:43:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17532 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Feb 2003 00:43:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17528 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2003 00:43:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Feb 2003 00:43:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 68E7019A6B; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:43:20 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from aquamar.escet.urjc.es (plan9.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.205]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BBA4F19AF2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:42:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <419e99aa5e8275fbff72dd149c1df7dd@plan9.escet.urjc.es> From: Fco.J.Ballesteros To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop In-Reply-To: <3e5e1646_2@news.uni-bielefeld.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-gmvqpimxkcrtddyrjommflxlwy" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 17:45:32 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-gmvqpimxkcrtddyrjommflxlwy Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I tried the R31 several months ago and it didnt work, dont know if the vga card is now supported. --upas-gmvqpimxkcrtddyrjommflxlwy Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Thu Feb 27 15:21:36 MET 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 741FE19AEF; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:21:19 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D53A19ADE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:20:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18oOib-00038Q-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 14:09:01 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Christian Grothaus Message-ID: <3e5e1646_2@news.uni-bielefeld.de> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <8ef9380a.0302181010.5b1f969f@posting.google.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 14:08:07 GMT andrey mirtchovski wrote: > ps: the new IBM R30+ laptops all come with Radeon7500 graphics. If mine > arrives soon I may report on experiences with that :) BTW: Has anyone tried the Thinkpad R31? AFAIK, it uses Intel 830MG integrated graphics. Is this chipset (partly) supported? (I couldn't find out whether it is compatible with a supported Intel chipset.) Thanks Christian --upas-gmvqpimxkcrtddyrjommflxlwy-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 28 00:50:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 28 00:50:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17589 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Feb 2003 00:50:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17585 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2003 00:50:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Feb 2003 00:50:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE45B19AFE; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:50:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AB99719AF8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:49:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00031 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:49:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1RFnIM21374 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:49:18 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302271549.h1RFnIM21374@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Drawterm or VMWare terminal? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:19:40 EST." <7a8afbd9fef19cc7b48d2d5d82d71e8b@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:49:18 -0500 > > Granted, but it wouldn't hurt to add it now, would it? It strikes me > > that it'd be useful for, e.g., people trying to talk to fileservers > > through firewalls or trampolining through CPU servers. > > You originally asked "why isn't it there?" not "why not add it?". > They are different questions. I wasn't arguing against adding it. > I was explaining why it wasn't there. True. I assumed the first implied the second. You what they say about assuming. > I have now added tcp to the pc, pccpu, pcauth, and pcdisk config files. Cool, thanks. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 28 00:58:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 28 00:58:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17730 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Feb 2003 00:58:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17726 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2003 00:58:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Feb 2003 00:58:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EF39519B02; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:58:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 852C019AF7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:57:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.7) with ESMTP id 506101 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:57:55 -0600 Message-ID: <5af33ad859cce18cf2ec08a80a74b38c@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Drawterm or VMWare terminal? From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <200302271549.h1RFnIM21374@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 07:57:27 -0800 > You know what they say about assuming. That when you assume, you make 'assume' out of 'ass' and 'ume'? I've heard a variant that makes no sense; this one at least is consistent. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 28 01:00:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 28 01:00:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17761 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Feb 2003 01:00:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17757 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2003 01:00:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Feb 2003 01:00:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 404C619B05; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:00:18 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9F91219AFF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:59:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01938 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:59:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1RFxfM21406 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:59:41 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302271559.h1RFxfM21406@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Drawterm or VMWare terminal? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 27 Feb 2003 07:57:27 PST." <5af33ad859cce18cf2ec08a80a74b38c@mightycheese.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:59:41 -0500 > > You know what they say about assuming. > > That when you assume, you make 'assume' out of 'ass' and 'ume'? > I've heard a variant that makes no sense; this one at least is > consistent. No, the other one. It's assumed you know what it means. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 28 01:06:12 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 28 01:06:12 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17854 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Feb 2003 01:06:01 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17841 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2003 01:06:00 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Feb 2003 01:06:00 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E7CCF19B0A; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:05:55 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.119.131.80]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B7FE819AA8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:04:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (boyd@zode.strakt.com [62.119.131.76]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h1RG4qxw015425 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 17:04:52 +0100 Message-ID: <3E5E3724.1030707@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020623 Debian/1.0.0-0.woody.1 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Drawterm or VMWare terminal? References: <200302271559.h1RFxfM21406@augusta.math.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 17:04:52 +0100 Dan Cross wrote: > No, the other one. It's assumed you know what it means. You mean 'the mother of all cluster...'? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 28 01:24:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 28 01:24:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18125 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Feb 2003 01:24:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18121 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2003 01:24:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Feb 2003 01:24:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BBEEA19AFF; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:24:19 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F372319AFC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:23:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Feb 27 11:23:39 EST 2003 Received: from 18.24.6.202 ([18.24.6.202]) by plan9; Thu Feb 27 11:23:36 EST 2003 Message-ID: <417123e121e35e59df131c21811ae038@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <419e99aa5e8275fbff72dd149c1df7dd@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-sijfkwedjknrziotiintexhjfv" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:23:44 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-sijfkwedjknrziotiintexhjfv Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit not much has changed in vga world in the last few months. i think the r31 is still unsupported. the particular i810 variant in the x30 is also unsupported, though i suspect it would not be hard to get going. richard miller sent in code for the prosavage; i think that's what is in the $799 laptop we were discussing a few days ago. --upas-sijfkwedjknrziotiintexhjfv Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Feb 27 10:43:31 EST 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Feb 27 10:43:29 EST 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B9C6319AF5; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:43:18 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from aquamar.escet.urjc.es (plan9.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.205]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BBA4F19AF2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:42:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <419e99aa5e8275fbff72dd149c1df7dd@plan9.escet.urjc.es> From: Fco.J.Ballesteros To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop In-Reply-To: <3e5e1646_2@news.uni-bielefeld.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-gmvqpimxkcrtddyrjommflxlwy" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 17:45:32 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-gmvqpimxkcrtddyrjommflxlwy Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I tried the R31 several months ago and it didnt work, dont know if the vga card is now supported. --upas-gmvqpimxkcrtddyrjommflxlwy Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Thu Feb 27 15:21:36 MET 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 741FE19AEF; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:21:19 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D53A19ADE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:20:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18oOib-00038Q-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 14:09:01 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Christian Grothaus Message-ID: <3e5e1646_2@news.uni-bielefeld.de> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <8ef9380a.0302181010.5b1f969f@posting.google.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 14:08:07 GMT andrey mirtchovski wrote: > ps: the new IBM R30+ laptops all come with Radeon7500 graphics. If mine > arrives soon I may report on experiences with that :) BTW: Has anyone tried the Thinkpad R31? AFAIK, it uses Intel 830MG integrated graphics. Is this chipset (partly) supported? (I couldn't find out whether it is compatible with a supported Intel chipset.) Thanks Christian --upas-gmvqpimxkcrtddyrjommflxlwy-- --upas-sijfkwedjknrziotiintexhjfv-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 28 01:31:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 28 01:31:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18258 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Feb 2003 01:31:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18254 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2003 01:31:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Feb 2003 01:31:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2297819B0B; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:31:18 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2EBE819AA8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:30:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06952; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:30:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1RGUaM21552; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:30:36 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302271630.h1RGUaM21552@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: 9trouble@cse.psu.edu From: Dan Cross Subject: [9fans] /sys/lib/libauth/newns.c patch to add `.' command, handle quoting. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:30:36 -0500 A while back I mentioned that I had modified newns.c to add a ``.'' command to source namespace commands from other files. I also changed splitargs() within newns.c to call tokenize instead of doing it's own tokenization; this allows it to correctly deal with quoted tokens (like #rune, as returned by ns). I think these changes are handy enough to share; I'm using them all over the place now. In particular, I added the following to the end of my /lib/namespace: . /lib/local.namespace This allows me to easily make custom changes to my namespace without a maintenance hassle; usually, one wants to add something, not take it away, from a common core. This makes doing that pretty trivial, as I can just add local customizations to /lib/local.namespace and have them apply to all hosts on my network (note: the name is local.namespace instead of namespace.local to avoid clashes if you added a host named, ``local'' to your network; newns() still looks for /lib/namespace.$sysname, and uses that to override /lib/namespace if it exists). Note that at the end of /lib/local.namespace, I have: . /lib/$sysname.namespace To pick up system dependent namespace changes. This is preferable to /lib/namespace.$sysname since it allows me to add a delta to my common namespace, instead of overriding it completely. It'd be nice to see this stuff go onto sources. - Dan C. All diffs are in diff -e format. The diff for /lib/namespace is trivial: term% diff -e /n/sources/plan9/lib/namespace /lib/namespace 28a # site dependent . /lib/local.namespace . term% And the changes to newns.c are: 241a if(q && q < arg) arg = q; q = utfrune(p, L'.'); . 213c if (n == (maxargsplus1 - 1)) return 0; return n; . 210c if (!argbuf) . 197,208c n = tokenize(p, argv, maxargsplus1); for (i = 0; i < n; i++) { q = argv[i]; argv[i] = argbuf; . 195c int i, n; . 192c splitargs(char *p, char *argv[], char *argbuf, int maxargsplus1) . 136c if(strcmp(argv0, ".") == 0 && argc == 1){ Biobuf *spec; spec = Bopen(argv[0], OREAD); if(spec == nil){ werrstr("can't open %s: %r", argv[0]); return; } nsfile(spec, rpc); Bterm(spec); }else if(strcmp(argv0, "bind") == 0 && argc == 2) . 74,79d 69c argc = splitargs(cmd, argv, argbuf, NARG + 1); . 61a nsfile(spec, rpc); Bterm(spec); if(rpc){ close(rpc->afd); auth_freerpc(rpc); } return 0; } static void nsfile(Biobuf *spec, AuthRpc *rpc) { int argc; char *cmd, *argv[NARG + 1], argbuf[MAXARG*NARG]; . 27d 25d 16a static void nsfile(Biobuf *, AuthRpc *); . From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 28 01:42:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 28 01:42:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18370 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Feb 2003 01:42:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18366 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2003 01:42:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Feb 2003 01:42:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9E30219AFF; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:42:19 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ophiopogon.tommyk.com (host-216-153-239-135.ind.choiceone.net [216.153.239.135]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B72F9199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:41:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from tommyk.com (bofh.tommyk.com [204.60.70.253]) by ophiopogon.tommyk.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1RGf7Vo013787 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:41:07 -0500 Message-ID: <3E5E3F99.6070803@tommyk.com> From: Jason Gurtz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.3b) Gecko/20030210 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop References: <417123e121e35e59df131c21811ae038@plan9.bell-labs.com> In-Reply-To: <417123e121e35e59df131c21811ae038@plan9.bell-labs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.25 http://www.roaringpenguin.com/mimedefang/ Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: jason@tommyk.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:40:57 -0500 Russ Cox wrote: > [...]i think the r31 is still > unsupported. the particular i810 variant > in the x30 is also unsupported, though i > suspect it would not be hard to get going. I've seen that some folks use Xfree drivers as a models sometimes when they try and develop vga drivers for plan9; today I noticed: "Support added to the i810 driver for Intel 845G, 852GM, 855GM and 865G integrated graphics chipsets, including 2D, 3D (DRI) and XVideo. Support for the 830M has been improved, and XVideo support added." in the release notes of the newly released XFree86-4.3.0 Perhaps there's some new clues available for those who understand these types of things. Cheers, ~Jason -- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 28 02:09:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 28 02:09:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18595 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Feb 2003 02:09:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18591 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2003 02:09:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Feb 2003 02:09:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 99B6B19AC3; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 12:09:18 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3081419988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 12:08:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12790; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 12:08:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h1RH8aM21825; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 12:08:36 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200302271708.h1RH8aM21825@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: 9trouble@plan9.bell-labs.com From: Dan Cross Subject: [9fans] Oh, I almost forgot... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 12:08:36 -0500 In changing around newns(), I added a command to help in debugging. It's turned out to be fairly useful generally, and I've installed it as auth/newns. Here's the source: - Dan C. #include #include #include void usage(void) { fprint(2, "Usage: newns [ -f file ] command.\n"); exits("usage"); } void main(int argc, char *argv[]) { char *nsfile; nsfile = "/lib/namespace"; ARGBEGIN { case 'f': nsfile = ARGF(); break; default: usage(); break; } ARGEND if (argc == 0) usage(); newns(getuser(), nsfile); exec(argv[0], argv); sysfatal("exec: %s: %r", argv[0]); } From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 28 05:58:53 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 28 05:58:53 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20737 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Feb 2003 05:58:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20733 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2003 05:58:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Feb 2003 05:58:42 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0930C19AB6; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 15:58:22 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-227.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.227]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4C538199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 15:57:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <7ab6d7c6ca17ce67de90e5ffd1bb50a6@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] lpdaemon probs (fix) From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <032301c2de46$ee289830$9949800a@will551> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 12:57:05 -0800 Ah, yes, I have run into that in the past. It only matters if you have a parallel-port printer. It might be worth a mention in the installation notes. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 28 09:21:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 28 09:21:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23191 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Feb 2003 09:21:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23187 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2003 09:21:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Feb 2003 09:21:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 94A3A19AB2; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:21:20 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EF40019AA8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:20:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.3/8.12.3/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h1S0K3D7014485 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 17:20:03 -0700 Received: (qmail 10760 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2003 17:20:02 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO carotid.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.162) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 27 Feb 2003 17:20:02 -0700 Received: (qmail 13950 invoked by uid 3499); 27 Feb 2003 17:20:02 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 27 Feb 2003 17:20:02 -0700 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" X-X-Sender: rminnich@carotid.ccs.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] u9fs question Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 17:20:02 -0700 (MST) I'm getting the "whoops: can't happen in u9fs" but can't see why. (gdb) where #0 rwstat (rx=0xbffff780, tx=0xbffff5c0) at u9fs.c:908 This is the code if(d.name[0]){ 903 old = fid->path; 904 dir = estrdup(fid->path); (gdb) 905 if((p = strrchr(dir, '/')) > dir) 906 *p = '\0'; 907 else{ 908 seterror(tx, "whoops: can't happen in u9fs"); 909 return; 910 } (gdb) print d.name $5 = 0x80c2775 "h4" (gdb) print old $6 = 0x80cc530 "/h4" (gdb) print dir $7 = 0x80cbee0 "/h4" (gdb) (gdb) print *fid $9 = {fid = 2, path = 0x80cc530 "/h4", st = {st_dev = 769, __pad1 = 0, st_ino = 2110, st_mode = 33188, st_nlink = 1, st_uid = 0, st_gid = 0, st_rdev = 0, __pad2 = 0, st_size = 0, st_blksize = 4096, st_blocks = 0, st_atime = 1046423312, __unused1 = 0, st_mtime = 1046423312, __unused2 = 0, st_ctime = 1046423312, __unused3 = 0, __unused4 = 0, __unused5 = 0}, u = 0x80cbe38, omode = 2, dir = 0x0, diroffset = 0, fd = 8, dirent = 0x0, next = 0x80cbda0, prev = 0x0} so d.name is fine, the fid->path is ok I guess (should it be / or /h4? -- I'm thinking /, but how did it get to /h4). any other ideas what to look for? This is testing from the new Linux VFS. A great deal of things are working. This fid came from a create. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 28 09:28:10 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 28 09:28:10 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23376 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Feb 2003 09:27:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23366 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2003 09:27:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Feb 2003 09:27:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EBD6A19AB6; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:27:18 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E5DB719AF3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:26:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] u9fs question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:26:04 -0500 I'm not sure why I thought that wouldn't happen. It looks like the right code would be: if((p = strrchr(dir, '/')) == nil){ seterror(tx, "whoops: can't happen in u9fs"); return; } *p = '\0'; Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 28 12:07:11 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 28 12:07:11 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28902 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Feb 2003 12:07:09 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28898 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2003 12:07:09 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Feb 2003 12:07:09 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5951219ABE; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 22:06:33 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ctcom.net.cn (unknown [211.161.8.200]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4BB1119AB0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 22:05:13 -0500 (EST) From: "ctcom" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_NextPart_2rfkindysadvnqw3nerasdf";charset="GB2312" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 Message-Id: <20030228030513.4BB1119AB0@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] ctcom weekly report03-07A Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: ctmi@ctcom.net.cn List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 11:04:41 +0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format --=_NextPart_2rfkindysadvnqw3nerasdf Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 9fans:ÄúºÃ! 2003ÄêÕ÷¶©Í¨Öª ¡¶ÖйúͨÐÅÊг¡ÐÅÏ¢¡·¼ò½é£º ¡¶ÖйúͨÐÅÊг¡ÐÅÏ¢¡·ÖÜ¿¯Óɱ±¾©Í¼ÁéÍøÂç¾­¼ÃÑо¿£¨CTCOM£©ËùÖ÷°ì£¬Á˽âµçÐÅÊг¡·¢Õ¹ÎªÖ÷µÄ´óÐ͵ç×ÓרҵýÌå¡£ 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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA== --=_NextPart_2rfkindysadvnqw3nerasdf-- --=_NextPart_2rfkindysadvnqw3nerasdf;charset=GB2312-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 28 13:44:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 28 13:44:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31845 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Feb 2003 13:44:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31839 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2003 13:44:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Feb 2003 13:44:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4156119ABA; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 23:44:22 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from riecilla.sotol.org (adsl-208-190-152-201.dsl.austtx.swbell.net [208.190.152.201]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CF95C19AB6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 23:43:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from linuxlink.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by riecilla.sotol.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE1148A2CB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 22:35:55 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3E5EE72B.1040103@linuxlink.com> From: mike User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20030211 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop References: <417123e121e35e59df131c21811ae038@plan9.bell-labs.com> In-Reply-To: <417123e121e35e59df131c21811ae038@plan9.bell-labs.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.71.0.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 22:35:55 -0600 Would that be this new satellite I have? Toshiba 1115-S103? That is the vid chipset it has, but alas no floppy... but didn't i see a cd image the last time i looked? When will it make it to the distro, if it is indeed supplied by Richard Miller? Thanks. Russ Cox wrote: > not much has changed in vga world in the > last few months. i think the r31 is still > unsupported. the particular i810 variant > in the x30 is also unsupported, though i > suspect it would not be hard to get going. > > richard miller sent in code for the prosavage; > i think that's what is in the $799 laptop we were > discussing a few days ago. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: > Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop > From: > Fco.J.Ballesteros > Date: > Thu, 27 Feb 2003 17:45:32 +0100 > To: > 9fans@cse.psu.edu > > > I tried the R31 several months ago and it didnt work, dont > know if the vga card is now supported. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: > Re: [9fans] Off the shelves plan9-compatible desktop > From: > Christian Grothaus > Date: > Thu, 27 Feb 2003 14:08:07 GMT > To: > 9fans@cse.psu.edu > > > andrey mirtchovski wrote: > >>ps: the new IBM R30+ laptops all come with Radeon7500 graphics. If mine >>arrives soon I may report on experiences with that :) > > > BTW: Has anyone tried the Thinkpad R31? AFAIK, it uses Intel 830MG > integrated graphics. Is this chipset (partly) supported? (I couldn't > find out whether it is compatible with a supported Intel chipset.) > > Thanks > > Christian -- Michael H. Collins http://linuxlink.com 512-442-2009 512-656-9508 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 28 19:10:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 28 19:10:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10000 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Feb 2003 19:10:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9996 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2003 19:10:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Feb 2003 19:10:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 62C15199EE; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 05:10:19 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 154B7199EE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 05:10:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 18ohDN-0002jv-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 09:54:01 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Rob Ristroph Message-ID: <873cm973hz.fsf@rgristroph-austin.ath.cx> Organization: Road Runner - Texas Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] use installation disk as repair ? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: rgr@sdf.lonestar.org List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 09:51:31 GMT Hi, I installed plan9 a few days ago. I edited the /rc/bin/termrc script to uncomment the part that was marked as what you should use for dhcp. Now when I boot it, it just hangs forever (I see the dhcp request and offer on the dhcp server). I'll have to figure out why dhcp doesn't work, but in the meantime, how can I mount the harddisk after booting up the installation floppy so I can back out my changes ? --Rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 28 19:38:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 28 19:38:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10460 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Feb 2003 19:38:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10456 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2003 19:38:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Feb 2003 19:38:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2BA4C19A10; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 05:38:19 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from REIJO (hki1-1-2-fc.hoasnet.inet.fi [80.221.17.252]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C1B801999B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 05:37:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from kukka ([192.168.2.2]) by REIJO with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 18ohtP-0005ME-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 12:37:27 +0200 Message-ID: <28fe3f3f6986b80740c05e44e4977597@cs.Helsinki.FI> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] use installation disk as repair ? From: anyrhine@cs.Helsinki.FI In-Reply-To: <873cm973hz.fsf@rgristroph-austin.ath.cx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 14:07:31 +0200 > how can I mount the harddisk after booting up the > installation floppy so I can back out my changes ? in case there is no /dev/sdC0 directory after booting, you'll need to bind -a '#S' /dev after that you can start kfs and mount what it serves with disk/kfs -n blah -f /dev/sdC0/fs mount -c /srv/kfs.blah /n/kfs -Aki Nyrhinen From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Feb 28 22:29:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Feb 28 22:29:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13445 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Feb 2003 22:29:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13441 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2003 22:29:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Feb 2003 22:29:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ACC5C19A19; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 08:29:19 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 156221998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 08:28:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Feb 28 08:28:32 EST 2003 Received: from 141.154.233.164 ([141.154.233.164]) by plan9; Fri Feb 28 08:28:29 EST 2003 Message-ID: <8376192c16335bd9202abaa8b19674f6@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] use installation disk as repair ? From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <873cm973hz.fsf@rgristroph-austin.ath.cx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 08:28:26 -0500 It you boot the install floppy you can draw a new window and then run mount /srv/kfs._dev_sdC0_fs /n/kfs and do what you need to do. The DHCP should time out after a couple minutes, though. Perhaps you didn't wait long enough. Once you get booting again, what is the date on your kernel (ls -l /386/9pcdisk)? Russ