From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 1 01:17:58 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 1 01:17:58 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23671 invoked by uid 1020); 1 May 2003 01:17:56 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23667 invoked from network); 1 May 2003 01:17:56 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 May 2003 01:17:56 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ADE0819A27; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:17:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 645DF19A2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:16:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19Au0s-00029A-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:00:54 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Andreas Jensen Message-ID: <3eaff276$0$52130$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk> Organization: TDC Internet References: <3eada3a5$0$52190$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>, <003301c30e55$65c404e0$30742544@mars> Subject: Re: [9fans] Matrox G200 and rio Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:00:42 GMT > Add PCI vendor and device id of your card to vgadb, >Matrox G4xx section. Thanks, I'll try that. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 1 03:11:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 1 03:11:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25017 invoked by uid 1020); 1 May 2003 03:11:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25013 invoked from network); 1 May 2003 03:11:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 May 2003 03:11:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C53CF19ADE; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:11:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E6F2119A8D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:10:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3UIAQc72790; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:10:26 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: <79a3035b869d65fb99f2e9fecf1ba9fd@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti arenas From: rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com In-Reply-To: <7ae69a86431964c1aa5e77e8d3574406@9fs.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:10:26 -0400 Jmk and I think the solution is this: apsize = ap->size - ap->arenaBase; n = apsize / asize; fprint(2, "configuring %s with arenas=%d for a total storage of bytes=%lld and directory bytes=%d\n", file, n, apsize, ap->tabSize); ap->narenas = n; ap->map = MKNZ(AMap, n); ap->arenas = MKNZ(Arena*, n); addr = ap->arenaBase; for(i = 0; i < n; i++){ limit = addr + asize; snprint(aname, ANameSize, "%s%d", name, i); fprint(2, "adding arena %s at [%lld,%lld)\n", aname, addr, limit); Even on a small system there are 200+ arenas. Another half-sized one isn't going to help much. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 1 05:09:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 1 05:09:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26386 invoked by uid 1020); 1 May 2003 05:09:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26382 invoked from network); 1 May 2003 05:09:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 May 2003 05:09:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6491C19AF0; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:09:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from magnum.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4AFA319AD5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:08:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from robin.cooper.edu by magnum.cooper.edu with SMTP id AA09798 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:12:43 -0400 Received: from localhost by robin.cooper.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA03163; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:08:36 -0400 From: Joel Salomon To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere In-Reply-To: <3EAEE56B.62D83D8C@null.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:08:36 -0400 (EDT) On Wed, 30 Apr 2003, Douglas A. Gwyn wrote: > > It's much, much easier when the library functions throw > exceptions. That way the application can handle them any > way it wants (or allow default handling to occur, normally > a fatal error), and the same utility library can be used > unchanged with any application. > Can Plan 9 libraries throw such exceptions? where does this functionality exist? --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 1 05:12:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 1 05:12:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26431 invoked by uid 1020); 1 May 2003 05:12:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26427 invoked from network); 1 May 2003 05:12:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 May 2003 05:12:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BCD7619AE2; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:12:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5F3C619A68 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:11:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3UKBJc94325; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:11:19 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere From: rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:11:19 -0400 > Can Plan 9 libraries throw such exceptions? where does this functionality > exist? Doug is thinking ahead to C1x. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 1 05:30:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 1 05:30:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26595 invoked by uid 1020); 1 May 2003 05:30:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26591 invoked from network); 1 May 2003 05:30:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 May 2003 05:30:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2109C19AD5; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:30:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 09EAC19AD0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:29:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 3955 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2003 20:29:39 -0000 Received: from roke.cse.psu.edu (HELO bio.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.12.14) by galapagos.cse.psu.edu with SMTP; 30 Apr 2003 20:29:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 21122 invoked by uid 991); 30 Apr 2003 20:29:39 -0000 Message-ID: <20030430202939.21121.qmail@f.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere In-Reply-To: Message from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com of "Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:11:19 EDT." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:29:39 -0400 | > Can Plan 9 libraries throw such exceptions? where does this functionality | > exist? | | Doug is thinking ahead to C1x. Tell Doug that the committee should be thinking about a standard counted string/array mechanism instead. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 1 07:21:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 1 07:21:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28169 invoked by uid 1020); 1 May 2003 07:21:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28165 invoked from network); 1 May 2003 07:21:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 May 2003 07:21:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7ADD519B2E; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:21:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 972F319B27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:20:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UMK1Yp024942 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 May 2003 00:20:01 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UMJxCi026709 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 May 2003 00:19:59 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id h3UMJwx05738 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 May 2003 00:19:58 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <200304302219.h3UMJwx05738@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/) Subject: [9fans] panic: D2B called on non-block 8067a168 (double-free?) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 00:19:58 +0200 I got the following panic in a kernel I compiled at Feb 18 2003: panic: D2B called on non-block 8067a168 (double-free?) It happened when I was using classical and (I think) due to some clicking classicjuke probably puked and committed suicide (at least, before the panic it had done so several times -- each time I just restarted it). Below follows the result of runnning the src commands generated from the trace by ktrace through acid. When I tried with 'ktrace -i' it asked for (one) more memory location than was present in the trace. Axel. cpu% acid 9pcdisk 9pcdisk:386 plan 9 boot image /sys/lib/acid/port /sys/lib/acid/386 acid: src(0x8010675f); // dumpstack+0x10 /sys/src/9/pc/trap.c:509 504 /* restore pc to instruction that caused the trap */ 505 ureg->pc--; 506 sprint(buf, "sys: breakpoint"); 507 postnote(up, 1, buf, NDebug); 508 } >509 510 static void 511 fault386(Ureg* ureg, void*) 512 { 513 ulong addr; 514 int read, user, n, insyscall; acid: src(0x80139f07); // panic+0xeb /sys/src/9/port/devcons.c:224 219 spllo(); 220 prflush(); 221 putstrn(buf, n+1); 222 dumpstack(); 223 >224 exit(1); 225 } 226 227 void 228 _assert(char *fmt) 229 { acid: src(0x8019e609); // ppanic+0xb4 /sys/src/9/port/alloc.c:88 83 va_start(v, fmt); 84 vseprint(pv->msg+strlen(pv->msg), pv->msg+sizeof pv->msg, fmt, v); 85 va_end(v); 86 memmove(msg, pv->msg, sizeof msg); 87 iunlock(&pv->lk); >88 panic("%s", msg); 89 } 90 91 static void 92 plock(Pool *p) 93 { acid: src(0x801c50b5); // D2B+0x32 /sys/src/libc/port/pool.c:943 938 D2B(Pool *p, void *v) 939 { 940 Alloc *a; 941 a = _D2B(v); 942 if(a->magic != KEMPT_MAGIC) >943 p->panic(p, "D2B called on non-block %p (double-free?)", v); 944 return a; 945 } 946 947 /* poolallocl: attempt to allocate block to hold dsize user bytes; assumes lock held */ 948 static void* acid: src(0x801c54de); // poolfreel+0x20 /sys/src/libc/port/pool.c:1064 1059 Bhdr *back, *fwd; 1060 1061 if(v == nil) /* for ANSI */ 1062 return; 1063 >1064 ab = D2B(p, v); 1065 blockcheck(p, ab); 1066 1067 if(p->flags&POOL_NOREUSE){ 1068 int n; 1069 acid: src(0x801c58d3); // poolfree+0x41 /sys/src/libc/port/pool.c:1174 1169 poolcheckl(p); 1170 } 1171 verbosity { 1172 pooldumpl(p); 1173 } >1174 poolfreel(p, v); 1175 paranoia { 1176 poolcheckl(p); 1177 } 1178 verbosity { 1179 pooldumpl(p); acid: src(0x8019e8fb); // free+0x23 /sys/src/9/port/alloc.c:223 218 219 void 220 free(void *v) 221 { 222 if(v != nil) >223 poolfree(mainmem, (ulong*)v-Npadlong); 224 } 225 226 void* 227 realloc(void *v, ulong size) 228 { acid: src(0x801a63ff); // mountfree+0x37 /sys/src/9/port/pgrp.c:248 243 while(m) { 244 f = m->next; 245 cclose(m->to); 246 m->mountid = 0; 247 free(m->spec); >248 free(m); 249 m = f; 250 } 251 } 252 253 void acid: src(0x801a5f93); // closepgrp+0x95 /sys/src/9/port/pgrp.c:87 82 e = &p->mnthash[MNTHASH]; 83 for(h = p->mnthash; h < e; h++) { 84 for(f = *h; f; f = next) { 85 wlock(&f->lock); 86 cclose(f->from); >87 mountfree(f->mount); 88 f->mount = nil; 89 next = f->hash; 90 wunlock(&f->lock); 91 putmhead(f); 92 } acid: src(0x801a8156); // pexit+0x136 /sys/src/9/port/proc.c:806 801 p->rendval = ~0; 802 l = &REND(p->rgrp, p->rendtag); 803 for(d = *l; d; d = d->rendhash) { 804 if(d == p) { 805 *l = p->rendhash; >806 break; 807 } 808 l = &d->rendhash; 809 } 810 ready(p); 811 } acid: src(0x801b1e0a); // sysexits+0x7f /sys/src/9/port/sysproc.c:582 577 poperror(); 578 579 } 580 pexit(status, 1); 581 return 0; /* not reached */ >582 } 583 584 long 585 sys_wait(ulong *arg) 586 { 587 int pid; acid: src(0x80106ade); // syscall+0x16c /sys/src/9/pc/trap.c:604 599 if(up->nerrlab){ 600 print("bad errstack [%uld]: %d extra\n", scallnr, up->nerrlab); 601 for(i = 0; i < NERR; i++) 602 print("sp=%lux pc=%lux\n", 603 up->errlab[i].sp, up->errlab[i].pc); >604 panic("error stack"); 605 } 606 607 up->insyscall = 0; 608 up->psstate = 0; 609 acid: src(0x80100982); // _syscallintr+0x18 /sys/src/9/pc/plan9l.s:45 40 MOVW AX, DS 41 MOVW AX, ES 42 PUSHL SP 43 CALL syscall(SB) 44 >45 POPL AX 46 POPAL 47 POPL GS 48 POPL FS 49 POPL ES 50 POPL DS acid: From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 1 07:28:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 1 07:28:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28274 invoked by uid 1020); 1 May 2003 07:28:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28270 invoked from network); 1 May 2003 07:28:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 May 2003 07:28:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5B35D19B31; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:28:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1A7E319B01 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:27:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3UMRWc12253; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:27:32 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] panic: D2B called on non-block 8067a168 (double-free?) From: rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com In-Reply-To: <200304302219.h3UMJwx05738@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:27:31 -0400 That's discouraging. Let us know if it happens again. It looks like there's a ref count bug on some hardly ever used path. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 1 10:40:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 1 10:40:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 602 invoked by uid 1020); 1 May 2003 10:40:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 598 invoked from network); 1 May 2003 10:40:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 May 2003 10:40:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EC82B19B82; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:40:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [64.71.129.86]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 94E9219B01 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:39:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 9D6D766B24; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:39:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20030501013935.GP36080@cassie.foobarbaz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Subject: [9fans] Setting kfs parameters at boot Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:39:35 -0700 I've poked around a little bit, but I haven't found an answer to this question. Is there a way to set kfs parameters at boot, e.g., setting the -B to increase the number of in-memory file system blocks? -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 1 10:44:13 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 1 10:44:13 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 755 invoked by uid 1020); 1 May 2003 10:44:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 751 invoked from network); 1 May 2003 10:44:13 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 May 2003 10:44:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4F94319B81; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:44:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [64.71.129.86]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5511C19B81 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:43:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7484D66B24; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:43:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Setting kfs parameters at boot Message-ID: <20030501014315.GQ36080@cassie.foobarbaz.net> References: <20030501013935.GP36080@cassie.foobarbaz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030501013935.GP36080@cassie.foobarbaz.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:43:15 -0700 Nevermind. I found it in the man page for plan9.ini. On Wed, Apr 30, 2003 at 06:39:35PM -0700, Christopher Nielsen wrote: > I've poked around a little bit, but I haven't found > an answer to this question. > > Is there a way to set kfs parameters at boot, e.g., > setting the -B to increase the number of in-memory > file system blocks? -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 1 13:26:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 1 13:26:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6539 invoked by uid 1020); 1 May 2003 13:26:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6535 invoked from network); 1 May 2003 13:26:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 May 2003 13:26:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 43CD219B7F; Thu, 1 May 2003 00:26:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 98FD319B01 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 May 2003 00:25:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 628083 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 23:25:50 -0500 Message-ID: <01fc7ebf2b86f43f87c5bb575602eb0b@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] same functions everywhere From: "rob pike, esq." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:24:39 -0700 > Doug is thinking ahead to C1x. Surely the committee moves faster than this, and he's really thinking of C0x. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 1 14:35:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 1 14:35:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9136 invoked by uid 1020); 1 May 2003 14:35:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9132 invoked from network); 1 May 2003 14:35:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 May 2003 14:35:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A9E0419B77; Thu, 1 May 2003 01:35:22 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from h24-68-27-133.vc.shawcable.net (h24-68-27-133.vc.shawcable.net [24.68.27.133]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A845E19B88 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 May 2003 01:34:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 2148 invoked from network); 1 May 2003 05:35:10 -0000 Received: from h24-68-25-124.vc.shawcable.net (24.68.25.124) by 0 with SMTP; 1 May 2003 05:35:10 -0000 Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere From: Jim Meier To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: <01fc7ebf2b86f43f87c5bb575602eb0b@mightycheese.com> References: <01fc7ebf2b86f43f87c5bb575602eb0b@mightycheese.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Message-Id: <1051767261.1758.23.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 30 Apr 2003 22:34:21 -0700 On Wed, 2003-04-30 at 21:24, rob pike, esq. wrote: > > Doug is thinking ahead to C1x. > Surely the committee moves faster than this, and he's > really thinking of C0x. Heh, fast commitees .. that's some funny stuff there -- Jim Meier From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 1 17:11:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 1 17:11:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15028 invoked by uid 1020); 1 May 2003 17:11:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15024 invoked from network); 1 May 2003 17:11:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 May 2003 17:11:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9958119AB0; Thu, 1 May 2003 04:11:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from netscape.com (r2d2.aoltw.net [64.236.137.26]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C4D6C19A6A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 May 2003 04:10:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yoda.mcom.com ([10.128.72.204]) by netscape.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id h418A9E01164 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 May 2003 01:10:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from will5510 ([10.128.74.235]) by yoda.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id HE780W00.I51 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 May 2003 08:10:08 +0000 Message-ID: <18e201c30fb8$f16d0a00$eb4a800a@will5510> From: "will551" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <02247be5cd632c939bbe3773ce22b821@snellwilcox.com> Subject: [9fans] tclport - stat problems - fix MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 09:09:09 +0100 hi got that problem with stat fixed around midnight last night! turned out that the default compile for Tcl was setting some types to different types e.g. size_t to int. Some of these types were used in the stat structure which of course was already compiled with the original sizes. I am running the Tcl test procedures at the moment so will hopefully have a build early next week. l8r will551 > I am have a problem with the function stat. > When I ask for the file size of a file with the tcl "file" command I get > a huge number that doesnt seem to relate to the file size at all: > % file size blah.file > 512341234556 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 1 17:54:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 1 17:54:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16271 invoked by uid 1020); 1 May 2003 17:54:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16267 invoked from network); 1 May 2003 17:54:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 May 2003 17:54:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7873119AA9; Thu, 1 May 2003 04:54:17 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from paris.com (unknown [218.239.19.94]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 02B41199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 May 2003 04:53:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1a149af39d7d$89d568f0$065a3c01@uayiokrv.p> From: "Georg Martin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: [9fans] S a v e big when you o r d e r d r u g s from a Canadian pharmacy Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 15:41:05 -0700 DQoNCg0KSG93IHRvIG9yZGVyDQoNCkNhbGwgMS04NjYtNjc3LTQ3MTQNCg0K DQoNCg0KSSBkb24ndCB3YW50IHRvIHJlY2VpdmUgdGhpcyBhbnltb3JlOiBt YWlsdG86b3B0b3V0ODc1QGhvdG1haWwuY29tP3N1YmplY3Q9cmVtb3ZlLS0+ OWZhbnNAY3NlLnBzdS5lZHUNCmkyczI= From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 1 18:16:16 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 1 18:16:16 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16843 invoked by uid 1020); 1 May 2003 18:16:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16839 invoked from network); 1 May 2003 18:16:12 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 May 2003 18:16:12 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AAB5819B8B; Thu, 1 May 2003 05:16:06 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B39C219A65 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 May 2003 05:15:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19BA3p-00076q-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 01 May 2003 10:09:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EB09B8A.3090103@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , <20030430202939.21121.qmail@f.bio.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 09:07:45 GMT Scott Schwartz wrote: > | > Can Plan 9 libraries throw such exceptions? where does this functionality > | > exist? > | Doug is thinking ahead to C1x. > Tell Doug that the committee should be thinking about a standard counted > string/array mechanism instead. Why? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 1 18:16:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 1 18:16:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16851 invoked by uid 1020); 1 May 2003 18:16:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16847 invoked from network); 1 May 2003 18:16:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 May 2003 18:16:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EF69019B90; Thu, 1 May 2003 05:16:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DB1A9199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 May 2003 05:15:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19BA3p-00076w-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 01 May 2003 10:09:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EB09C24.2040604@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 09:07:56 GMT rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: >>Can Plan 9 libraries throw such exceptions? where does this functionality >>exist? > Doug is thinking ahead to C1x. Actally, no. Several people (including me) have implemented general, low-overhead exception-handling systems in C. It would be possible to make them more convenient with support in the language itself, but one can go a long way just by exploiting setjmp/longjmp via better packaging. 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Thu May 1 20:22:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19864 invoked by uid 1020); 1 May 2003 20:22:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19860 invoked from network); 1 May 2003 20:22:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 May 2003 20:22:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 244FF19BA2; Thu, 1 May 2003 07:22:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from hotmail.com (jemmapes-2-81-57-94-56.fbx.proxad.net [81.57.94.56]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 5957819B99 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 May 2003 07:21:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <232490cee280$b8445028$c66ab174@bjawwboassqcl.d> From: "Susan Polycson" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: [9fans] Get your D0MAIN r e g i s t e r e d for just $14.95 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 10:48:14 -0000 UmVzZXJ2ZSBhIG5ldyBpbnRlcm5ldCBuYW1lIG9yIGV4dGVuZCBhbiBleGlz dGluZyBvbmUgZm9yIGhhbGYgdGhlIHByaWNlLg0KRnVsbCBmbGV4aWJpbGl0 eSB0byBtYW5hZ2UgYW5kIG1vdmUgeW91ciBEME1BSU4uDQpodHRwOi8vd3d3 LlJlc2VydmVBRG90LmNvbQ0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQpJIGRvbid0 IHdhbnQgdG8gcmVjZWl2ZSB0aGlzIGFueW1vcmU6IG1haWx0bzpvcHRvdXQ4 NzVAaG90bWFpbC5jb20/c3ViamVjdD1yZW1vdmUtLT45ZmFuc0Bjc2UucHN1 LmVkdQ0KDQpsNHMx From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 1 22:56:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 1 22:56:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22390 invoked by uid 1020); 1 May 2003 22:56:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22386 invoked from network); 1 May 2003 22:56:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 May 2003 22:56:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B76C19BA1; Thu, 1 May 2003 09:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1AAF419A31 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 May 2003 09:55:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <889ba22fa71b6b0fe9e1c3f7fadc80e8@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere In-Reply-To: <3EB09C24.2040604@null.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 09:55:22 -0400 > Actally, no. Several people (including me) have implemented > general, low-overhead exception-handling systems in C. It > would be possible to make them more convenient with support > in the language itself, but one can go a long way just by > exploiting setjmp/longjmp via better packaging. You're preaching to the choir. Look at the Plan 9 kernel. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 1 23:08:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 1 23:08:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22577 invoked by uid 1020); 1 May 2003 23:08:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22573 invoked from network); 1 May 2003 23:08:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 May 2003 23:08:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 579C719BA3; Thu, 1 May 2003 10:08:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from serio.al.rim.or.jp (serio.al.rim.or.jp [202.247.191.123]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1273719B95 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 May 2003 10:07:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail2.rim.or.jp by serio.al.rim.or.jp (3.7W/HMX-13) id VAA07281 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 May 2003 21:24:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from banten_lin.private (flets1180.t3.rim.or.jp [202.247.153.180]) by mail2.rim.or.jp (8.9.3/3.7W) id XAA06874 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 May 2003 23:07:15 +0900 (JST) From: Kiyoshi MATSUI To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: <20030501230715.551fdc8a.kmatsui@t3.rim.or.jp> In-Reply-To: <20030430160006.21083.98722.Mailman@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu> References: <20030430160006.21083.98722.Mailman@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.4 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-vine-linux) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Re: Cannot boot with kfs error Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 23:07:15 +0900 Thanks Fco and Russ for reply. I am really using SCSI drives (sd03 is the forth drive). The SCSI card has Symbios 53C875 chip. On Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:00:06 -0400 Russ Cox wrote: > Download http://plan9.bell-labs.com/~rsc/plan9/9pcdisk.apr30.gz, > write it to your boot floppy as 9pcdisk.gz, and set > bootfile=fd0!9pcdisk.gz to plan9.ini on the boot floppy. I have tried the Russ's kernel. The result, however, is the same (kfs error again). I have commented out the 'ether=rtl8139' line in 'plan9.ini'. The pause of 10 minutes long, however, is not shortened. I have done again [copydist] in the installer. The result never changes. Since the installer's plan9 works fine, including kfs and rio (except the problem of long pause), I think that my plan9 will certainly boot and work, as soon as the neccessary settings are done. What is lacking? How can I investigate the problem? kmatsui From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 1 23:12:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 1 23:12:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22634 invoked by uid 1020); 1 May 2003 23:12:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22630 invoked from network); 1 May 2003 23:12:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 May 2003 23:12:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0228319B9F; Thu, 1 May 2003 10:12:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 48343199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 May 2003 10:11:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <363226e3349dfec19301ac1521bf2a42@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Cannot boot with kfs error In-Reply-To: <20030501230715.551fdc8a.kmatsui@t3.rim.or.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 10:11:38 -0400 Set *nousbprobe=1 *noetherprobe=1 in plan9.ini too. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 2 01:01:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 2 01:01:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24368 invoked by uid 1020); 2 May 2003 01:01:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24364 invoked from network); 2 May 2003 01:01:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 May 2003 01:01:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EBCBB19BAD; Thu, 1 May 2003 12:01:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C1F6819AB2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 May 2003 12:00:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 7232 invoked by uid 991); 1 May 2003 16:00:47 -0000 Message-ID: <20030501160047.7231.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere In-Reply-To: Message from "Douglas A. Gwyn" of "Thu, 01 May 2003 09:07:45 GMT." <3EB09B8A.3090103@null.net> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 12:00:47 -0400 | Scott Schwartz wrote: | > | > Can Plan 9 libraries throw such exceptions? where does this functionality | > | > exist? | > | Doug is thinking ahead to C1x. | > Tell Doug that the committee should be thinking about a standard counted | > string/array mechanism instead. | | Why? Because I think the main problem C has is buffer overruns, and I believe that the main cause of that is that people use C arrays, pointers, which don't encode the bounds, along with standard library routines that discourage doing anything else. My hypothesis is that if there were an official string library then people would use that and have fewer bugs, especially if there were a little syntactic sugar. int array q; From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 2 02:18:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 2 02:18:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25556 invoked by uid 1020); 2 May 2003 02:18:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25552 invoked from network); 2 May 2003 02:18:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 May 2003 02:18:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8F93419BA9; Thu, 1 May 2003 13:18:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from magnum.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C924519BA9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 May 2003 13:17:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from robin.cooper.edu by magnum.cooper.edu with SMTP id AA02095 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>); Thu, 1 May 2003 13:21:08 -0400 Received: from localhost by robin.cooper.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA05163; Thu, 1 May 2003 13:17:00 -0400 From: Joel Salomon To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere In-Reply-To: <889ba22fa71b6b0fe9e1c3f7fadc80e8@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 13:17:00 -0400 (EDT) On Thu, 1 May 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > > You're preaching to the choir. Look at the Plan 9 kernel. So can the kernel's "exceptions" be packaged in library form for applications? --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 2 02:18:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 2 02:18:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25563 invoked by uid 1020); 2 May 2003 02:18:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25559 invoked from network); 2 May 2003 02:18:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 May 2003 02:18:45 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9EE7619BAA; Thu, 1 May 2003 13:18:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D28F519A69 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 May 2003 13:17:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h41HK19p004064 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 May 2003 11:20:01 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h41HK1Jg004060 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 May 2003 11:20:01 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] gigabit ethernet query Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 11:20:01 -0600 (MDT) Hi, Do you mind telling me what different brands of Gigabit Ethernet cards you guys use (both in- and external to Bell-Labs) with Plan 9? We're looking at buying hardware that's either supported by P9 already or is common enough to warrant a driver for it. I'll also use this information to update the wiki, which currently states: * Netgear GA620 and GA620T Gigabit Ethernet cards and other cards using the Alteon Acenic chip, e.g., Alteon Acenic fiber and copper cards, DEC DEGPA-SA and SGI Acenic thanx, andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 2 02:22:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 2 02:22:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25656 invoked by uid 1020); 2 May 2003 02:22:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25652 invoked from network); 2 May 2003 02:22:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 May 2003 02:22:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C65B619BBA; Thu, 1 May 2003 13:22:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 58DF719BB1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 May 2003 13:21:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h41HLJc39220; Thu, 1 May 2003 13:21:20 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: <56ac52a5624a4663a1e268002f02f387@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere From: rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 13:21:19 -0400 There are some programs that use the same method, but it's best used in moderation. I haven't seen many programs that would really benefit from it. (Except, of course, user-level ports of the Plan 9 kernel.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 2 03:02:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 2 03:02:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26198 invoked by uid 1020); 2 May 2003 03:02:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26194 invoked from network); 2 May 2003 03:02:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 May 2003 03:02:36 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3B79719A8A; Thu, 1 May 2003 14:02:23 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from magnum.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3464D19A69 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 May 2003 14:01:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from robin.cooper.edu by magnum.cooper.edu with SMTP id AA05025 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>); Thu, 1 May 2003 14:05:16 -0400 Received: from localhost by robin.cooper.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA07717; Thu, 1 May 2003 14:01:07 -0400 From: Joel Salomon To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere In-Reply-To: <56ac52a5624a4663a1e268002f02f387@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Joel Salomon List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 14:01:07 -0400 (EDT) On Thu, 1 May 2003 rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > There are some programs that use the same method, > but it's best used in moderation. I haven't seen many > programs that would really benefit from it. So someone porting one of the C "exception" libraries would be a bad idea, or just of limited use? (Assuming the implementation would come with wrappers for malloc, fopen, etc.) --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 2 03:12:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 2 03:12:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26415 invoked by uid 1020); 2 May 2003 03:12:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26411 invoked from network); 2 May 2003 03:12:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 May 2003 03:12:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D6F0519BB1; Thu, 1 May 2003 14:12:06 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4751F19A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 May 2003 14:11:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h41IB5c45479; Thu, 1 May 2003 14:11:05 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere From: rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 14:11:05 -0400 Given the syntactic weight of C exception ``libraries'', I'm not convinced they're appropriate for things like fopen failing. I think it would be of limited use. The code itself is utterly trivial. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 2 03:29:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 2 03:29:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26676 invoked by uid 1020); 2 May 2003 03:29:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26672 invoked from network); 2 May 2003 03:29:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 May 2003 03:29:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 209CF19BBC; Thu, 1 May 2003 14:29:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A344019A69 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 May 2003 14:28:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1a292a0b18142250fd3af0d3a0f41487@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] gigabit ethernet query In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 14:28:32 -0400 In addition to the Alteon-based cards, we have used Intel PRO/1000 T Intel PRO/1000 F these are the older 82543GC chip Intel PRO/1000 XT 82544 chip These work just dandy. Unfortunately there's a driver merge to do (or not) between the 2 chips (actually, mostly between the fiber and CAT5 parts); considering how much cheaper and easier to use the CAT5 stuff is that may never happen. Intel PRO/1000 MT 82540EM chip We had trouble with this embedded on a motherboard. I have a card on order ($43) to see if we can find out what's up, it should just be a little tweaking from the 82544 code. Netgear GA622T Linksys EG1064 National Semiconductor DP83820 chip These are cheap and work, but performance isn't great. I'm not sure whether that's because I didn't spend any time trying to tune the driver or because of chip limitations, I suspect a combination of both. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 2 23:34:11 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 2 23:34:11 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24960 invoked by uid 1020); 2 May 2003 23:34:10 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24956 invoked from network); 2 May 2003 23:34:10 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 May 2003 23:34:10 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 85A6519C21; Fri, 2 May 2003 07:13:18 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from wintermute.cse.psu.edu (wintermute.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.5]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 802D119C21 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 May 2003 07:06:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gea.cnice.mecd.es (gea.cnice.mecd.es [195.53.123.22]) by wintermute.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server (Backup MX)) with ESMTP id AE5D873CBD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 May 2003 07:06:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.escet.urjc.es (217-124-32-18.dialup.nuria.telefonica-data.net [217.124.32.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by gea.cnice.mecd.es (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h42Ave8H018992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 May 2003 12:57:50 +0200 Message-ID: <3EB250A7.8030506@plan9.escet.urjc.es> From: FJ Ballesteros User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; es-ES; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 X-Accept-Language: es-es MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Cannot boot with kfs error References: <20030430160006.21083.98722.Mailman@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu> <20030501230715.551fdc8a.kmatsui@t3.rim.or.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 13:04:07 +0200 Have you tried by copying the plan9.ini and the kernel from the install to the hard drive? (Beware that you'd need to edit the plan9.ini besides copying it, at least to tell about the new kernel and boot disk) Kiyoshi MATSUI wrote: > Thanks Fco and Russ for reply. > > I am really using SCSI drives (sd03 is the forth drive). The SCSI card > has Symbios 53C875 chip. > > On Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:00:06 -0400 > Russ Cox wrote: > >>Download http://plan9.bell-labs.com/~rsc/plan9/9pcdisk.apr30.gz, >>write it to your boot floppy as 9pcdisk.gz, and set >>bootfile=fd0!9pcdisk.gz to plan9.ini on the boot floppy. >> > > I have tried the Russ's kernel. The result, however, is the same (kfs > error again). > > I have commented out the 'ether=rtl8139' line in 'plan9.ini'. The pause > of 10 minutes long, however, is not shortened. > > I have done again [copydist] in the installer. The result never changes. > > Since the installer's plan9 works fine, including kfs and rio (except > the problem of long pause), I think that my plan9 will certainly boot > and work, as soon as the neccessary settings are done. > > What is lacking? How can I investigate the problem? > > kmatsui > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 2 23:47:00 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 2 23:47:00 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25101 invoked by uid 1020); 2 May 2003 23:46:59 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25097 invoked from network); 2 May 2003 23:46:59 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 May 2003 23:46:59 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BF51719C03; Fri, 2 May 2003 03:02:50 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from wintermute.cse.psu.edu (wintermute.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.5]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A403019BFC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 May 2003 02:54:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by wintermute.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server (Backup MX)) with ESMTP id 7EDF373CC3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 May 2003 02:54:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h426iXNF020072 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 May 2003 08:44:35 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h426iUTs020070 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 2 May 2003 08:44:30 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <20030502084426.O26796@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us Organization: Proxima Research & Development Subject: [9fans] /sys/src/cmd/fossil/cache.c:/^abort Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 08:44:26 +0200 This need not be the most recent version, late March... The "abort();" seems like a bug catching command, it occurred while I was creating a Venti snapshot (following the wiki instructions). The error message that preceeded it was: cacheLocalData: addr=0 type got 0 exp 0: tag got 4c0fe2a2 exp 22f90fe3 this on a pretty underpowered Pentium 100MHz (/dev/cputype == P54C 101) with 32Meg of RAM, but a fair amount of swap: 1975/4600 memory 4492/19600 swap My first attempt at getting fossil working, is there anything else I ought to supply? I can leave the machine untouched, if so desired, for as long as it takes to debug. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 2 23:48:14 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 2 23:48:14 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25126 invoked by uid 1020); 2 May 2003 23:48:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25122 invoked from network); 2 May 2003 23:48:14 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 May 2003 23:48:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 182ED19C2C; Fri, 2 May 2003 07:18:19 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from wintermute.cse.psu.edu (wintermute.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.5]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C46B19C26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 May 2003 07:08:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gea.cnice.mecd.es (gea.cnice.mecd.es [195.53.123.22]) by wintermute.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server (Backup MX)) with ESMTP id D2CAB73CC3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 May 2003 07:08:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.escet.urjc.es (217-124-32-18.dialup.nuria.telefonica-data.net [217.124.32.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by gea.cnice.mecd.es (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h42B0f8H019131 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 May 2003 13:00:41 +0200 Message-ID: <3EB2515B.3030206@plan9.escet.urjc.es> From: FJ Ballesteros User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; es-ES; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 X-Accept-Language: es-es MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 13:07:07 +0200 Yes. I think one of the programs in sources /nemo includes a util.[ch] that has one of such packages. Joel Salomon wrote: > On Thu, 1 May 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > >>You're preaching to the choir. Look at the Plan 9 kernel. >> > > So can the kernel's "exceptions" be packaged in library form for > applications? > > --Joel > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 3 00:03:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 3 00:03:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25309 invoked by uid 1020); 3 May 2003 00:03:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25305 invoked from network); 3 May 2003 00:03:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 May 2003 00:03:40 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BD83119BE2; Fri, 2 May 2003 02:37:30 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from wintermute.cse.psu.edu (wintermute.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.5]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 32C2319BD6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 May 2003 02:31:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from priv-edtnes11-hme0.telusplanet.net (outbound03.telus.net [199.185.220.222]) by wintermute.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server (Backup MX)) with ESMTP id E81A073CB8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 May 2003 02:31:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([66.183.137.70]) by priv-edtnes11-hme0.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.17 201-253-122-126-117-20021021) with ESMTP id <20030502060137.BVKO20963.priv-edtnes11-hme0.telusplanet.net@localhost.localdomain> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 May 2003 00:01:37 -0600 Received: (qmail 1030 invoked by uid 500); 2 May 2003 06:08:55 -0000 From: Taj Khattra To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere Message-ID: <20030502060855.GA956@localhost.localdomain> References: <56ac52a5624a4663a1e268002f02f387@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <56ac52a5624a4663a1e268002f02f387@plan9.bell-labs.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 23:08:55 -0700 On Thu, May 01, 2003 at 01:21:19PM -0400, rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > There are some programs that use the same method, > but it's best used in moderation. e.g. squint, rob's Newsqueak interpreter -taj From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 3 00:23:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 3 00:23:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25476 invoked by uid 1020); 3 May 2003 00:23:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25472 invoked from network); 3 May 2003 00:23:13 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 May 2003 00:23:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 04A9D19A6D; Fri, 2 May 2003 11:23:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3768219A1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 May 2003 11:22:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h42FLtc98448; Fri, 2 May 2003 11:21:55 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] /sys/src/cmd/fossil/cache.c:/^abort From: rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com In-Reply-To: <20030502084426.O26796@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 11:21:55 -0400 Upgrade your fossil to the latest sources and binaries and then try again. I'm not too interested in tracking down whether this is a fixed bug or not. It looks like the block got freed and reused prematurely. It's likely to be a fixed bug. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 3 00:53:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 3 00:53:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25933 invoked by uid 1020); 3 May 2003 00:53:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25929 invoked from network); 3 May 2003 00:53:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 May 2003 00:53:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F3AE519C19; Fri, 2 May 2003 06:02:49 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from wintermute.cse.psu.edu (wintermute.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.5]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6463819AC4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 May 2003 05:56:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by wintermute.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server (Backup MX)) with ESMTP id BE1A273CBE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 May 2003 05:56:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19BWml-0001BU-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 02 May 2003 10:24:55 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EB1E0F1.6060908@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 09:24:12 GMT rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > Given the syntactic weight of C exception > ``libraries'', I'm not convinced they're appropriate > for things like fopen failing. I think it would be > of limited use. The code itself is utterly trivial. Done right, the main advantages are: (a) uniform, tested error handling instead of ad-hoc (b) ensures reasonable default when user neglects to deal with the possibility of failre (c) no need for explicit tests of function error returns Basically, it's a way to impose order on chaos. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 3 01:29:15 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 3 01:29:15 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26278 invoked by uid 1020); 3 May 2003 01:29:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26274 invoked from network); 3 May 2003 01:29:13 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 May 2003 01:29:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D9D2119A63; Fri, 2 May 2003 12:29:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AB7F319A1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 May 2003 12:28:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 630072 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 02 May 2003 11:29:28 -0500 Message-ID: <2c48f76cc19c912eb71595a28defda34@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <3EB1E0F1.6060908@null.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 09:28:07 -0700 > (a) uniform, tested error handling instead of ad-hoc only for certain kinds of errors. you still need to write explicit code (perhaps using exceptions) for many kinds of errors. > (b) ensures reasonable default when user neglects to > deal with the possibility of failre a weak premise and again, only for certain errors. > (c) no need for explicit tests of function error > returns therefore subverting programming discipline. > Basically, it's a way to impose order on chaos. and replace it with a mysterious, hard to understand mechanism with a tendency to overlay a program's structure with confusing, noisy error-handling details. i'm not a fan of exceptions. good programming can trump them every time; bad exception handling can destroy a program. they're an interesting idea but i judge them a failure. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 3 02:47:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 3 02:47:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27258 invoked by uid 1020); 3 May 2003 02:47:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27254 invoked from network); 3 May 2003 02:47:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 May 2003 02:47:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4448F19A2C; Fri, 2 May 2003 13:47:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from epaphras.inhouse.cnm-vra.com (epaphras.cnm-vra.com [208.21.241.46]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B0A5119A0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 May 2003 13:46:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by epaphras.inhouse.cnm-vra.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 08901CE6D; Fri, 2 May 2003 10:42:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Micah Stetson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20030502174212.GA11412@epaphras.inhouse.cnm-vra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Subject: [9fans] Linksys Instant Wireless Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 10:42:12 -0700 I'm going to be moving in a month or so, and I'm attempting to set up a wireless network in my new house. (Basically, I'm getting married and my wife doesn't like the idea of Cat5 cables everywhere.) So I bought a Linksys Instant Wireless PC Card (WPC11 v.3) seeing that they were mentioned on the Wiki. The card, however isn't recognized. The results are the same in either slot, the card isn't even powered up. Running "cat '#Y'/cb0ctl" yields 'slot 0: SlotFull; '. It doesn't seem to matter whether I have a card in the other slot. I've a Linksys fast ethernet adapter that works in either slot. I tried disabling cardbus and going back to PCMCIA with very similar results. My laptop (IBM Thinkpad 600) has a TI PCI 1250 Cardbus chipset. On boot, it says, "No support yet for the TI_1250_did, prod pb". Could this have anything to do with it? It doesn't hinder my use of the ethernet card, though. Any ideas? Thanks, Micah From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 3 03:41:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 3 03:41:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27844 invoked by uid 1020); 3 May 2003 03:41:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27840 invoked from network); 3 May 2003 03:41:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 May 2003 03:41:39 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7206619A98; Fri, 2 May 2003 14:41:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3995019A80 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 May 2003 14:40:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h42Ieuc22347; Fri, 2 May 2003 14:40:57 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Linksys Instant Wireless From: rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com In-Reply-To: <20030502174212.GA11412@epaphras.inhouse.cnm-vra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 14:40:55 -0400 The Instant Wireless card I did the driver tweaks for was not a Cardbus card, at least I don't think it was. What do you get from aux/pcmcia? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 4 05:59:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 4 05:59:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14246 invoked by uid 1020); 4 May 2003 05:59:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14242 invoked from network); 4 May 2003 05:59:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 May 2003 05:59:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B40DD19991; Sat, 3 May 2003 16:59:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from infocom.km.ua (infocom.km.ua [195.230.134.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9B057199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 3 May 2003 16:58:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kp.km.ua (root@kp.km.ua [217.196.174.2]) by infocom.km.ua (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/ic) with ESMTP id h43Kvsmo034069 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 3 May 2003 23:57:55 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Received: from localhost.localdomain (dialup16.kp.km.ua [217.196.174.31]) by kp.km.ua (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/kp-branch) with SMTP id h43KvoQf082859 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 3 May 2003 23:57:52 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" From: "A.S. Kukhar" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <03050323543300.00547@localhost.localdomain> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] rootdir, rootspec values Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 23:59:51 -0400 hello, sorry for yet another stupid question from me, I can't find suitable examples of using the plan9.ini variables rootdir and rootspec in man and 9fans archives. I use standalone terminal system (in VMware) and I want to dispose the prompt: ``root is from (local)[local!#S/sdC0/fs]'' when booting. hope to see your responses :) -kyxap From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 4 07:16:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 4 07:16:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15159 invoked by uid 1020); 4 May 2003 07:16:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15155 invoked from network); 4 May 2003 07:16:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 May 2003 07:16:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7DA1A199ED; Sat, 3 May 2003 18:16:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail05.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net (mail05.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net [159.134.118.21]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1AC59199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 3 May 2003 18:15:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 90303 messnum 1069521 invoked from network[159.134.228.107/p228-107.as1.tre.dublin.eircom.net]); 3 May 2003 22:15:19 -0000 Received: from p228-107.as1.tre.dublin.eircom.net (HELO iol.ie) (159.134.228.107) by mail05.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net (qp 90303) with SMTP; 3 May 2003 22:15:19 -0000 Message-ID: <3EB43F24.B90EC13D@iol.ie> From: will551 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <0cedbe8a9651cd81e54f64c8480339eb@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Tcl Now Available for Plan 9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 03 May 2003 23:13:58 +0100 hi Tcl 8.3.5 for Plan 9 is now at: http://geocities.com/will5514 enjoy will551 -- ------------------------------------------------------------ (,_ ,_, _,) /]\`-._( )_.-'/]\ Email: will551@iol.ie / ] \`-'/ \'-`/ ] \ /___].-'`-\_/-`'-.]__\ ------------------------------------------------------------ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 4 08:02:14 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 4 08:02:14 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15722 invoked by uid 1020); 4 May 2003 08:02:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15718 invoked from network); 4 May 2003 08:02:13 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 May 2003 08:02:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA79D19A2D; Sat, 3 May 2003 19:02:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A4EBE199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 3 May 2003 19:01:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6db6aa738dbf33089927674db8b45a29@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] rootdir, rootspec values In-Reply-To: <03050323543300.00547@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 19:01:42 -0400 rootdir and rootspec have nothing to do with the root is from prompt. they're documented in plan9.ini(8). if typing one extra keystroke really bothers you that much, you can use the undocumented nobootprompt=local!#S/sdC0/fs to do away with the prompt. (it exists really only for the install floppy, where doing away with the boot prompts was helpful because then they don't have to be explained.) russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 4 08:22:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 4 08:22:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16104 invoked by uid 1020); 4 May 2003 08:22:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16100 invoked from network); 4 May 2003 08:22:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 May 2003 08:22:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E6D8819A53; Sat, 3 May 2003 19:22:06 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from usa.com (unknown [61.43.151.129]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 485A11998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 3 May 2003 19:20:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [7.92.153.12] by mailout.endmonthnow.com with smtp; Sun, 04 May 2003 23:23:25 +0400 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail.halftomorrow.com) (95.220.30.41) by snmp.otwaloow.com with esmtp; 05 May 2003 03:17:52 -1100 Received: from [79.31.151.140] by webmail.halftomorrow.com with NNFMP; 04 May 2003 16:12:19 -0000 Received: from [150.129.108.74] by mts.locks.grgtween.net with asmtp; Sun, 04 May 2003 16:06:46 -0900 Received: from snmp.otwaloow.com ([190.252.208.137]) by mtu23.bigping.com with QMQP; 04 May 2003 07:01:13 -0800 Message-ID: From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Subject: [9fans] this is interesting Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 03 May 2003 15:32:22 -0700 U2VsZiBzZXJ2aWNlIEQwTUFJTiByIGUgZyBpIHMgdCByIGEgdCBpIG8gbiAg c2VydmljZSBhdCBhIGZyYWN0aW9uIG9mIHRoZSBjIG8gcyB0Lg0KTjAgbWlu aW11bSBwIHUgciBjIGggYSBzIGUgIHRlcm0gYW5kIG5vIHQgciBhIG4gcyBm IGUgciByZXN0cmljdGlvbnMuDQpodHRwOi8vd3d3LlJlc2VydmVBRG90LmNv bQ0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCkkgZG9uJ3Qgd2FudCB0byByZWNlaXZlIHRoaXMgYW55 bW9yZTogbWFpbHRvOm9wdG91dDcxNUBtYWlsLmNvbT9zdWJqZWN0PXJlbW92 ZS0tPjlmYW5zQGNzZS5wc3UuZWR1DQoNCg0KDQoNCm0yLXNzMUMNCg0KDQoN Cg0K From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 4 11:50:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 4 11:50:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19506 invoked by uid 1020); 4 May 2003 11:50:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19502 invoked from network); 4 May 2003 11:50:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 May 2003 11:50:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2293F19A60; Sat, 3 May 2003 22:50:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.popsite.net (smtp.popsite.net [216.126.128.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6E40819A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 3 May 2003 22:49:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cadence.glidepath.org (08-061.024.popsite.net [66.19.4.61]) by smtp.popsite.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 475CB4DA05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 3 May 2003 21:49:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from cadence.glidepath.org (cadence.glidepath.org [127.0.0.1]) by cadence.glidepath.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h442neQ6004529 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 3 May 2003 22:49:40 -0400 Received: (from bumble@localhost) by cadence.glidepath.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h442nd3h004525; Sat, 3 May 2003 22:49:39 -0400 Message-Id: <200305040249.h442nd3h004525@cadence.glidepath.org> From: Marc D Bumble To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Plan 9 Advantages summary Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: mbumble@cpinternet.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 22:49:39 -0400 Hi, What is the best summary document which lists the key advantages of Plan 9 over UNIX? Something other than the "Plan 9 from Bell Labs" article? Marc -- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 4 12:27:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 4 12:27:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20052 invoked by uid 1020); 4 May 2003 12:27:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20048 invoked from network); 4 May 2003 12:27:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 May 2003 12:27:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 847AF19A72; Sat, 3 May 2003 23:27:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7798519A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 3 May 2003 23:26:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <67856ae5aeb222d2e6e84723a566b73b@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Advantages summary In-Reply-To: <200305040249.h442nd3h004525@cadence.glidepath.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 23:26:45 -0400 https://lists.cse.psu.edu/archives/9fans/2001-October/thread.html#13935 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 4 14:13:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 4 14:13:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21664 invoked by uid 1020); 4 May 2003 14:13:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21660 invoked from network); 4 May 2003 14:13:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 May 2003 14:13:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5AE2319A75; Sun, 4 May 2003 01:13:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EB57819988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 4 May 2003 01:12:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h445CAqt030263 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 3 May 2003 23:12:10 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h445CAYM019565 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 3 May 2003 23:12:10 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Advantages summary In-Reply-To: <200305040249.h442nd3h004525@cadence.glidepath.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 23:10:41 -0600 (MDT) On Sat, 3 May 2003, Marc D Bumble wrote: > What is the best summary document which lists the key advantages of Plan 9 > over UNIX? Something other than the "Plan 9 from Bell Labs" article? I have not found one; wiki time? ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 4 16:51:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 4 16:51:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24157 invoked by uid 1020); 4 May 2003 16:51:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24153 invoked from network); 4 May 2003 16:51:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 May 2003 16:51:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C477719A40; Sun, 4 May 2003 03:51:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A8A4B19A66 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 4 May 2003 03:50:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h447oZNF026056 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 4 May 2003 09:50:36 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h447oXbo026055 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 4 May 2003 09:50:33 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] /sys/src/cmd/fossil/cache.c:/^abort Message-ID: <20030504095032.U26796@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030502084426.O26796@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com on Fri, May 02, 2003 at 11:21:55AM -0400 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 09:50:32 +0200 On Fri, May 02, 2003 at 11:21:55AM -0400, rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > > Upgrade your fossil to the latest sources and binaries > and then try again. I'm not too interested in tracking down > whether this is a fixed bug or not. It looks like the block > got freed and reused prematurely. It's likely to be a > fixed bug. > Thinking that my message had been lost, I tried again, and the problem did not recur. I did, however, restart Venti and Fossil both, reformat the arenas and indeces, etc. In particular, I had a vacfs running, which could, I imagine, caused the inconsistency. After the restart, it wasn't there to interfere. Your point about staying up to date is also valid. It's a little hard for me, but that's my problem. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 4 23:40:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 4 23:40:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30327 invoked by uid 1020); 4 May 2003 23:40:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30323 invoked from network); 4 May 2003 23:40:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 May 2003 23:40:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 74AF019A87; Sun, 4 May 2003 10:40:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4228419A82 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 4 May 2003 10:39:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8a4eccdd282e9fe4c7edc3a5eebdb778@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] /sys/src/cmd/fossil/cache.c:/^abort In-Reply-To: <20030504095032.U26796@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 10:39:39 -0400 Vacfs is read-only. It wouldn't have caused any problems. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 5 00:58:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 5 00:58:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30992 invoked by uid 1020); 5 May 2003 00:58:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30988 invoked from network); 5 May 2003 00:58:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 May 2003 00:58:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 268C9199B3; Sun, 4 May 2003 11:58:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from serio.al.rim.or.jp (serio.al.rim.or.jp [202.247.191.123]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 36F2619A6C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 4 May 2003 11:56:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail6.rim.or.jp by serio.al.rim.or.jp (3.7W/HMX-13) id WAA24661 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 4 May 2003 22:40:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from banten_lin.private (flets1180.t3.rim.or.jp [202.247.153.180]) by mail6.rim.or.jp (8.9.3/3.7W) id AAA08546 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 May 2003 00:56:45 +0900 (JST) From: Kiyoshi MATSUI To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Cannot boot with kfs error Message-Id: <20030505005647.6015e0ce.kmatsui@t3.rim.or.jp> In-Reply-To: <3EB250A7.8030506@plan9.escet.urjc.es> References: <20030430160006.21083.98722.Mailman@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu> <20030501230715.551fdc8a.kmatsui@t3.rim.or.jp> <3EB250A7.8030506@plan9.escet.urjc.es> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.4 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-vine-linux) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 00:56:47 +0900 Thanks F. Ballesteros and Russ Cox for the replies. I have tried to boot Plan9 by copying Russ's kernel to the hard drive (i.e /n/kfs/386, then copied it to 9fat by disk/format command, as instructed in "Troubleshooting Plan9 & lilo" wiki page). Rebooted via lilo. 'kfs i/o error' occurred again. I have also tried it by copying the installer's kernel (9pcflop) to the hard drive. Rebooted. Kernel started without login prompt (as the installer's booting), then stayed silent for longer than 15 minutes (without even i/o error message). I reset the machine. Why can the installer's Plan9 boot? What is the difference?. By the way, I have also tried plan9.ini with the following lines. *nousbprobe=1 *noetherprobe=1 10 minutes pause has not been shortened. Is there anyone who is using the ncr53C8xx SCSI driver? kmatsui From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 5 04:02:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 5 04:02:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32430 invoked by uid 1020); 5 May 2003 04:02:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32426 invoked from network); 5 May 2003 04:02:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 May 2003 04:02:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F0B6A19A9F; Sun, 4 May 2003 15:02:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from infocom.km.ua (infocom.km.ua [195.230.134.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E06F519A9B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 4 May 2003 15:01:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kp.km.ua (root@kp.km.ua [217.196.174.2]) by infocom.km.ua (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/ic) with ESMTP id h44J0wmo002485 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 4 May 2003 22:01:00 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Received: from localhost.localdomain (dialup6-X25.kp.km.ua [217.196.174.13]) by kp.km.ua (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/kp-branch) with SMTP id h44J0rQg055330 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 4 May 2003 22:00:57 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" From: "A.S. Kukhar" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Advantages summary X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] References: <200305040249.h442nd3h004525@cadence.glidepath.org> In-Reply-To: <200305040249.h442nd3h004525@cadence.glidepath.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <03050409043000.00620@localhost.localdomain> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 09:04:30 -0400 you can try README by Brian W. Kernighan: ftp://ftp.leo.org/pub/comp/os/plan9/old/doc/README.html -kyxap From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 5 04:02:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 5 04:02:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32437 invoked by uid 1020); 5 May 2003 04:02:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32433 invoked from network); 5 May 2003 04:02:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 May 2003 04:02:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A6DE419AA2; Sun, 4 May 2003 15:02:23 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from infocom.km.ua (infocom.km.ua [195.230.134.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE5F719A9A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 4 May 2003 15:01:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kp.km.ua (root@kp.km.ua [217.196.174.2]) by infocom.km.ua (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/ic) with ESMTP id h44J0vmo002480 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 4 May 2003 22:00:58 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Received: from localhost.localdomain (dialup6-X25.kp.km.ua [217.196.174.13]) by kp.km.ua (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/kp-branch) with SMTP id h44J0rQf055330 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 4 May 2003 22:00:55 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" From: "A.S. Kukhar" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] rootdir, rootspec values X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] References: <6db6aa738dbf33089927674db8b45a29@plan9.bell-labs.com> In-Reply-To: <6db6aa738dbf33089927674db8b45a29@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01050421550000.00597@localhost.localdomain> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 21:55:00 -0400 oh, great, the use of variables user= and nobootprompt=local!#S/sdC0/fs make something like autologin in Plan 9! thanks for response Russ P.S. I really like undocumented features_ -kyxap > rootdir and rootspec have nothing to do with the > root is from prompt. they're documented in plan9.ini(8). > > if typing one extra keystroke really bothers you that > much, you can use the undocumented > > nobootprompt=local!#S/sdC0/fs > > to do away with the prompt. (it exists really only for > the install floppy, where doing away with the boot > prompts was helpful because then they don't have to > be explained.) > > russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 5 10:56:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 5 10:56:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4141 invoked by uid 1020); 5 May 2003 10:56:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4137 invoked from network); 5 May 2003 10:56:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 May 2003 10:56:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2F85919AA1; Sun, 4 May 2003 21:56:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from leadbelt.com (65-84-68-139.client.dsl.net [65.84.68.139]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1C30F19A73 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 4 May 2003 21:55:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: [9fans] increase energy Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 12:44:43 -1100 SCBHIEggRW5oYW5jZXINCg0KaHR0cDovL29lbC5oZWFsdGhwcm9kdWN0c25v dy5uZXQvaHVtYW5nL2luZGV4LnBocD9pZD00MTMNCg0KUmVnYWluIFlvdXIg WW91dGghDQoNCi1GZWVsIFlvdW5nZXINCi1Mb3NlIFdlaWdodCBGYXN0ZXIN Ci1HYWluIExlYW4gTXVzY2xlDQotU3RyZW5ndGhlbiBTZXggRHJpdmUNCi1J bXByb3ZlIE1lbW9yeQ0KLUluY3JlYXNlIEVuZXJneQ0KDQoxMDAlIE1vbmV5 IEJhY2sgR3VhcmFudGVlIQ0KDQpCZWNvbWUgb25lIG9mIHRoZSB0aG91c2Fu ZHMgb2Ygc2F0aXNmaWVkIHBlb3BsZSBub3chDQoNCmh0dHA6Ly9haWdjcHR1 Yy5oZWFsdGhwcm9kdWN0c25vdy5uZXQvaHVtYW5nL2luZGV4LnBocD9pZD00 MTM= From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 5 16:50:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 5 16:50:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8226 invoked by uid 1020); 5 May 2003 16:50:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8222 invoked from network); 5 May 2003 16:50:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 May 2003 16:50:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F18F019ABB; Mon, 5 May 2003 03:50:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5752819AB4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 May 2003 03:49:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <221fd18e25ee846aef2220b1566737a4@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Cannot boot with kfs error From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <20030505005647.6015e0ce.kmatsui@t3.rim.or.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 09:49:53 +0200 > *nousbprobe=1 > *noetherprobe=1 > > 10 minutes pause has not been shortened. > > Is there anyone who is using the ncr53C8xx SCSI driver? Can you try the same machine but using an IDE drive? If the pause goes away and it can boot, then we can know that it's the scsi. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 5 18:21:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 5 18:21:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9243 invoked by uid 1020); 5 May 2003 18:21:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9239 invoked from network); 5 May 2003 18:21:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 May 2003 18:21:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E137119AAF; Mon, 5 May 2003 05:21:06 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D904419AAC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 May 2003 05:20:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Cannot boot with kfs error From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <20030505005647.6015e0ce.kmatsui@t3.rim.or.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 18:22:45 +0900 > Is there anyone who is using the ncr53C8xx SCSI driver? I suppose most people use the scsi driver for file server like me. The price of machines are very low these days. I recommend you to purchase another one, if you are not curious enough into kernel driver developping. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 5 20:34:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 5 20:34:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10575 invoked by uid 1020); 5 May 2003 20:34:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10571 invoked from network); 5 May 2003 20:34:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 May 2003 20:34:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 684FF19AA6; Mon, 5 May 2003 07:34:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from klastr1.icpf.cas.cz (klastr1.icpf.cas.cz [147.231.137.254]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6081119AB5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 May 2003 07:33:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from klastr1.icpf.cas.cz (klastr1.icpf.cas.cz [147.231.137.254]) by klastr1.icpf.cas.cz (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h45BbQH09197 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 May 2003 13:37:27 +0200 From: alexandr babic To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] aux/vga & card S3 VIRGE/DX & monitor ADI 4GP Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 13:37:26 +0200 (CEST) hallo plan9-ers! i've got problem with graphics under plan9. i've got monitor ADI 4GP and video card S3 virge/dx 86C375 with 4MB memory. when i start aux/vga -m [vga....multisync] -l [640x480x8...1024x768x24] i can't get normal screen, screen is always divided into 2 or more vertical rectangles with some color vertical lines between them. each rectangle contains the same picture of graphics. i tried hwaccel off etc. , but nothing helped. can you help me?! thanx and vivat glenda :-) sasa babic From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 5 22:57:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 5 22:57:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12442 invoked by uid 1020); 5 May 2003 22:57:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12438 invoked from network); 5 May 2003 22:57:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 May 2003 22:57:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E4D0A19AC5; Mon, 5 May 2003 09:57:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from goliat.eik.bme.hu (goliat.eik.bme.hu [152.66.115.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 359D219A26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 May 2003 09:56:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by goliat.eik.bme.hu (Postfix, from userid 455) id BB6EAFF64; Mon, 5 May 2003 15:56:12 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by goliat.eik.bme.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5461FF2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 May 2003 15:56:12 +0200 (MEST) From: FODEMESI Gergely X-X-Sender: fgergo@goliat To: plan9 mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] venti - windows2003 shadow copies? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 15:56:12 +0200 (MEST) Hi, do you think MS got shadow copies' idea from the venti paper? See: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/docs/SCR.doc cheers: gergo From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 01:01:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 01:01:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14013 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 01:01:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14009 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 01:01:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 01:01:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 712F419AD3; Mon, 5 May 2003 12:01:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from wilbur.25thandClement.com (wilbur.25thandclement.com [64.62.167.198]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 135D319AB4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 May 2003 12:00:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wilbur.25thandClement.com (william@localhost [IPv6:::1]) by wilbur.25thandClement.com (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h45G03ah023724 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 May 2003 09:00:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from william@localhost) by wilbur.25thandClement.com (8.12.7/8.12.6/Submit) id h45G03eE008002 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 5 May 2003 09:00:03 -0700 (PDT) From: William Ahern To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20030505160003.GA27502@wilbur.25thandClement.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Subject: [9fans] fd2path(2) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 09:00:03 -0700 why not make the return value of fd2path() similar to SUSv3's snprintf()? that is, return the length of the logical string. i've read a few archived posts on this. one was to make the return value the remainder of the logical length and the buffer length. another pointed out that inferno just returned a malloc'd string on its own. but, why force superfluous use of strlen()? the semantics of snprintf() seem quite reasonable. in fact, i can't really figure out a down side... anybody? - Bill From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 01:20:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 01:20:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14288 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 01:20:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14284 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 01:20:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 01:20:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 34B0319ACA; Mon, 5 May 2003 12:20:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0BEE319A81 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 May 2003 12:19:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 633196 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 05 May 2003 11:20:34 -0500 Message-ID: <6b1434ce54eef6452e6ae212a0faebe5@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fd2path(2) From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <20030505160003.GA27502@wilbur.25thandClement.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 09:18:55 -0700 > why not make the return value of fd2path() similar to SUSv3's snprintf()? > that is, return the length of the logical string. i've read a few archived > posts on this. one was to make the return value the remainder of the logical > length and the buffer length. another pointed out that inferno just returned > a malloc'd string on its own. Perhaps it's a better interface, making it like read. I don't remember thinking about it, which probably means I just gave it the default syscall return. I do remember thinking about the NUL on the end, which probably means I didn't think it was the same as read. On the other hand, a quick grep shows most program just use the string outright and strlen() is really cheap. I suspect that between the two of us we've spent more time talking about it than using strlen() on an fd2path call will require in our lifetimes. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 02:34:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 02:34:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15260 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 02:34:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15256 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 02:34:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 02:34:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C9C7C19ACB; Mon, 5 May 2003 13:34:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from wilbur.25thandClement.com (wilbur.25thandclement.com [64.62.167.198]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C6DD1199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 May 2003 13:33:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wilbur.25thandClement.com (william@localhost [IPv6:::1]) by wilbur.25thandClement.com (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h45HWXah004676 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 May 2003 10:32:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from william@localhost) by wilbur.25thandClement.com (8.12.7/8.12.6/Submit) id h45HWXBY030098 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 5 May 2003 10:32:33 -0700 (PDT) From: William Ahern To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fd2path(2) Message-ID: <20030505173233.GA19682@wilbur.25thandClement.com> References: <20030505160003.GA27502@wilbur.25thandClement.com> <6b1434ce54eef6452e6ae212a0faebe5@mightycheese.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <6b1434ce54eef6452e6ae212a0faebe5@mightycheese.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 10:32:33 -0700 On Mon, May 05, 2003 at 09:18:55AM -0700, rob pike, esq. wrote: > > why not make the return value of fd2path() similar to SUSv3's snprintf()? > > that is, return the length of the logical string. i've read a few archived > > posts on this. one was to make the return value the remainder of the logical > > length and the buffer length. another pointed out that inferno just returned > > a malloc'd string on its own. > > Perhaps it's a better interface, making it like read. I don't > remember thinking about it, which probably means I just gave it the > default syscall return. I do remember thinking about the NUL on the > end, which probably means I didn't think it was the same as read. > > On the other hand, a quick grep shows most program just use the string > outright and strlen() is really cheap. I suspect that between the two > of us we've spent more time talking about it than using strlen() on an > fd2path call will require in our lifetimes. > > -rob fair enough ;) i was just inquiring 'cause i'm re-creating cleanname() and fd2path() on *bsd/linux for a little project of mine. i had the code written (fname_normalize(char *, int, const char *), fname_get(int)), when i discovered that plan9 already had an interface to do the same thing, and so i figured i might as well copy the semantics (a tad more general, and intuitive). hmmmmm. does plan 9 have an interface for inquiring about file events? for instance, on free/net/openbsd there is kqueue, which supports vnode events. something similar on linux is DNOTIFY (dentry events). SGI has IMon (inode monitor). - Bill From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 03:06:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 03:06:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15518 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 03:06:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15514 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 03:06:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 03:06:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2EE3B1998C; Mon, 5 May 2003 14:06:05 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 07A7B19A32 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 May 2003 14:05:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mero.morphisms.net (mero.morphisms.net [66.93.84.246]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42AF524FDB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 May 2003 14:05:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mero.morphisms.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id E961B2BB; Mon, 5 May 2003 14:05:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 14:05:04 -0400 From: William Josephson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fd2path(2) Message-ID: <20030505180504.GC57767@mero.morphisms.net> References: <20030505160003.GA27502@wilbur.25thandClement.com> <6b1434ce54eef6452e6ae212a0faebe5@mightycheese.com> <20030505173233.GA19682@wilbur.25thandClement.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030505173233.GA19682@wilbur.25thandClement.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-No-archive: yes Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: On Mon, May 05, 2003 at 10:32:33AM -0700, William Ahern wrote: > hmmmmm. does plan 9 have an interface for inquiring about file events? for > instance, on free/net/openbsd there is kqueue, which supports vnode events. > something similar on linux is DNOTIFY (dentry events). SGI has IMon (inode > monitor). No. No select, either. You can use libthread and ioprocs, though. Or just use rfork() manually. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 03:13:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 03:13:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15569 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 03:13:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15565 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 03:13:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 03:13:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 138C7199B7; Mon, 5 May 2003 14:13:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2E78619A7D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 May 2003 14:12:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h45ICcc69349; Mon, 5 May 2003 14:12:38 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: <9a9dd92cd569eab872b41f3ac584302a@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fd2path(2) From: rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com In-Reply-To: <20030505173233.GA19682@wilbur.25thandClement.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 14:12:37 -0400 > hmmmmm. does plan 9 have an interface for inquiring about file events? for > instance, on free/net/openbsd there is kqueue, which supports vnode events. > something similar on linux is DNOTIFY (dentry events). SGI has IMon (inode > monitor). Plan 9 has no ``file events''. Hence there is no interface for inquiring about them. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 03:18:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 03:18:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15611 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 03:18:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15607 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 03:18:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 03:18:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5031419AB4; Mon, 5 May 2003 14:18:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from wilbur.25thandClement.com (wilbur.25thandclement.com [64.62.167.198]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DDE31199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 May 2003 14:17:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wilbur.25thandClement.com (william@localhost [IPv6:::1]) by wilbur.25thandClement.com (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h45IHIah022041 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 May 2003 11:17:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from william@localhost) by wilbur.25thandClement.com (8.12.7/8.12.6/Submit) id h45IHIRJ014362 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 5 May 2003 11:17:18 -0700 (PDT) From: William Ahern To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fd2path(2) Message-ID: <20030505181718.GA339@wilbur.25thandClement.com> References: <20030505173233.GA19682@wilbur.25thandClement.com> <9a9dd92cd569eab872b41f3ac584302a@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <9a9dd92cd569eab872b41f3ac584302a@plan9.bell-labs.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 11:17:18 -0700 On Mon, May 05, 2003 at 02:12:37PM -0400, rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > > hmmmmm. does plan 9 have an interface for inquiring about file events? for > > instance, on free/net/openbsd there is kqueue, which supports vnode events. > > something similar on linux is DNOTIFY (dentry events). SGI has IMon (inode > > monitor). > > Plan 9 has no ``file events''. Hence there is no interface for inquiring about them. apologies for the ignorant question. didn't think that one through.... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 03:57:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 03:57:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15928 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 03:57:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15924 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 03:57:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 03:57:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 13A6D19A08; Mon, 5 May 2003 14:57:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from epaphras.inhouse.cnm-vra.com (epaphras.cnm-vra.com [208.21.241.46]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 119F019A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 May 2003 14:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by epaphras.inhouse.cnm-vra.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4B603CE07; Mon, 5 May 2003 11:54:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Micah Stetson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Linksys Instant Wireless Message-ID: <20030505185417.GA16217@epaphras.inhouse.cnm-vra.com> References: <20030502174212.GA11412@epaphras.inhouse.cnm-vra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 11:54:17 -0700 > The Instant Wireless card I did the driver tweaks for > was not a Cardbus card, at least I don't think it was. I didn't mean to imply that the card wasn't pcmcia. I was talking about treating the controller as a pcmcia or cardbus controller, that is '#y' or '#Y'. The PCMCIA ethernet card works either way, although aux/pcmcia doesn't. > What do you get from aux/pcmcia? Nothing. If I put 'pccard0=disabled' in plan9.ini so that I get files in '#y' rather than '#Y', every byte in '#y/pcm0attr' is 0xff. This makes sense as the card is apparently not powered. There is a power LED on the card itself that never lights. Thanks for your help, Micah From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 05:09:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 05:09:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16879 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 05:09:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16875 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 05:09:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 05:09:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 00B3D19A6C; Mon, 5 May 2003 16:09:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from swordfish (unknown [216.241.35.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6F84619992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 May 2003 16:08:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from matt by swordfish with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19CmFv-0001ZI-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 05 May 2003 14:08:11 -0600 From: Matt Gushee To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20030505200810.GC5035@swordfish> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Subject: [9fans] Yet another VGA issue (CT65550) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Matt Gushee List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 14:08:10 -0600 Hello, all-- Well, I have wanted to try out Plan9 for some time, and finally decided to take the plunge. I have installed the distribution on my old Toshiba Satellite Pro 420CDS, which has a Chips & Tech 65550 video card. I have got a working system--I can log in, navigate around, execute various commands, etc., but I can't get VGA working. Actually, this is not a complete surprise, because I've run Linux on this box for several years, and had a hell of a time getting XFree86 working--actually none of the several configuration tools I tried could generate appropriate settings for my card; I ended up having to do it manually. Anyway, here's the output of 'aux/vga -piV' and the relevant portions of my working XFree86Config. If anyone has an idea what to do about this, I'd greatly appreciate your suggestions: aux/vga -piV ------------ Oops, I guess not! The floppy disk containing that info has died, and my 9box is put away for the moment. Guess I'll have to send it later. One somewhat unusual thing I noticed is that the base memory address for the CT65550 on my machine is 0xE0000. But I tried adding an appropriate entry to /lib/vgadb, e.g. 0xE0090="TOSHIBA Video BIOS V2.00" but that only resulted in error messages like 'hiqvideo: not found'. (Note to Plan9 maintainers: couldn't these error messages be a little more descriptive, explaining exactly what was not found where? It might be helpful to confused newbies like me) Anyway, here's the XFree86 stuff. Perhaps it will be of some use. XF86Config ---------- Section "Monitor" Identifier "Crawdad Viddy" VendorName "Toshiba" ModelName "800x600 LCD" Bandwidth 25.2 HorizSync 25-64 VertRefresh 40-70 Modeline "800x600@8bpp" 40 800 840 968 1056 600 601 605 628 +hsync +vsync Modeline "800x600@16bpp" 35.464 800 824 896 1024 600 601 603 625 # Modeline "800x600@24bpp" 31.5 800 824 896 1024 600 601 603 625 Modeline "800x600@24bpp" 26.598 800 824 896 1024 600 601 603 625 EndSection # ********************************************************************** # Graphics device section # ********************************************************************** # Any number of graphics device sections may be present # Standard VGA Device: Section "Device" Identifier "Generic VGA" VendorName "Unknown" BoardName "Unknown" Chipset "generic" # VideoRam 256 # Clocks 25.2 28.3 EndSection # Device configured by xf86config: Section "Device" Identifier "My Video Card" VendorName "Chips & Technologies" BoardName "ct65550" #VideoRam 2048 Option "sw_cursor" Textclockfreq 36 Option "STN" # Option "no_stretch" # Option "no_center" # Option "use_modeline" # Option "fix_panel_size" # Insert Clocks lines here if appropriate EndSection -- Matt Gushee When a nation follows the Way, Englewood, Colorado, USA Horses bear manure through mgushee@havenrock.com its fields; http://www.havenrock.com/ When a nation ignores the Way, Horses bear soldiers through its streets. --Lao Tzu (Peter Merel, trans.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 05:25:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 05:25:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16987 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 05:25:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16983 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 05:25:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 05:25:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 18E8E199B6; Mon, 5 May 2003 16:25:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F12A719A2A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 May 2003 16:24:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h45KOpc13619; Mon, 5 May 2003 16:24:51 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: <289ce248d8b559f0b1e4588f79a7b7c0@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Yet another VGA issue (CT65550) From: rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com In-Reply-To: <20030505200810.GC5035@swordfish> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 16:24:50 -0400 > aux/vga -piV > ------------ > Oops, I guess not! The floppy disk containing that info has died, and my > 9box is put away for the moment. Guess I'll have to send it later. Also include pci.txt. The ``not found'' message means no hiqvideo (65550) card was found that we know how to drive. There's only a few PCI IDs we support, and yours isn't in the list. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 06:27:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 06:27:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17810 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 06:27:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17806 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 06:27:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 06:27:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB26719A32; Mon, 5 May 2003 17:27:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.monitorbm.co.nz (mail.mbmnz.co.nz [203.167.201.38]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4886F19A8D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 May 2003 17:26:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 25750 invoked from network); 5 May 2003 21:26:44 -0000 Received: from mercury.mbmnz.co.nz (HELO MERCURY) (192.168.0.63) by mail.monitorbm.co.nz with SMTP; 5 May 2003 21:26:44 -0000 Message-ID: <017e01c3134d$66024460$3f00a8c0@MERCURY> From: "Andrew Simmons" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Subject: [9fans] Qid path generation Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 09:29:23 +1200 I'm pondering how to generate unique qid paths for NTFS/FAT32 files. The 2nd ed toolset for Windows has a function called "pathqid" which generates a 4 byte number from the filename. I'd appreciate any hints on the workings of this function, particularly the choice of the magic number 1000003, the reason for masking with ~CHDIR, and the role of the first parameter, which always seems to have 0 passed in - plus any ideas on extending the method to 8 bytes, or a better method. Also, I would guess that a method such as pathqid could occasionally generate the same number from two different file names. Any guesses as to the impact of this on a client (eg 9fs)? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 06:31:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 06:31:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17873 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 06:31:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17869 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 06:31:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 06:31:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 24EA019A9B; Mon, 5 May 2003 17:31:05 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BA0D019A81 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 May 2003 17:30:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mero.morphisms.net (mero.morphisms.net [66.93.84.246]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 018E624FD2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 May 2003 17:30:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mero.morphisms.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id F087C2BB; Mon, 5 May 2003 17:30:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 17:30:01 -0400 From: "W. Josephson" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Qid path generation Message-ID: <20030505213001.GA59007@mero.morphisms.net> References: <017e01c3134d$66024460$3f00a8c0@MERCURY> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <017e01c3134d$66024460$3f00a8c0@MERCURY> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-No-archive: yes Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: On Tue, May 06, 2003 at 09:29:23AM +1200, Andrew Simmons wrote: > Also, I would guess that a method such as pathqid could occasionally > generate the same number from two different file names. Any guesses as to > the impact of this on a client (eg 9fs)? It'll bugger bind and most anything that tries to cache. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 06:34:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 06:34:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17886 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 06:34:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17882 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 06:34:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 06:34:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7776419A8D; Mon, 5 May 2003 17:34:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D0F019992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 May 2003 17:33:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h45LXKc37137; Mon, 5 May 2003 17:33:20 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: <4c38a7b4efba8dd7467ce1e642996f8a@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Qid path generation From: rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com In-Reply-To: <017e01c3134d$66024460$3f00a8c0@MERCURY> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 17:33:20 -0400 > I'm pondering how to generate unique qid paths for NTFS/FAT32 files. The 2nd > ed toolset for Windows has a function called "pathqid" which generates a 4 > byte number from the filename. I'd appreciate any hints on the workings of > this function, particularly the choice of the magic number 1000003, the > reason for masking with ~CHDIR, and the role of the first parameter, which > always seems to have 0 passed in - plus any ideas on extending the method to > 8 bytes, or a better method. It's just a hash function. In old Plan 9, the CHDIR bit indicated that the file was a directory. The extra parameter let you start the hash at a different value, so that if you knew the hash of a directory, you could compute the hash of a file within that directory without rehashing the directory name. > Also, I would guess that a method such as pathqid could occasionally > generate the same number from two different file names. Any guesses as to > the impact of this on a client (eg 9fs)? It matters when you try to bind or mount on those paths. Mounts on top of one would also appear on top of the other. Other programs like cp also use the qids to avoid copying a file onto itself. Also, as wkj pointed out, cfs and mount -C cache based on qids. I think there might be better ways to get a unique identifier out of Windows these days. U9fs, for example, uses the inode number and device number. Maybe Windows will let you get at similar information now. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 06:44:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 06:44:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17943 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 06:44:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17939 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 06:44:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 06:44:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1720619AB1; Mon, 5 May 2003 17:44:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.monitorbm.co.nz (mail.mbmnz.co.nz [203.167.201.38]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 891C719A9D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 May 2003 17:43:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 25922 invoked from network); 5 May 2003 21:43:07 -0000 Received: from mercury.mbmnz.co.nz (HELO MERCURY) (192.168.0.63) by mail.monitorbm.co.nz with SMTP; 5 May 2003 21:43:07 -0000 Message-ID: <018e01c3134f$af81cf50$3f00a8c0@MERCURY> From: "Andrew Simmons" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <4c38a7b4efba8dd7467ce1e642996f8a@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Qid path generation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 09:45:46 +1200 > I think there might be better ways to get a unique identifier > out of Windows these days. You'd think so, but I'm buggered if I can find them. I'll keep looking. Thanks. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 06:56:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 06:56:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18069 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 06:56:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18065 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 06:56:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 06:56:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 68E2219A9E; Mon, 5 May 2003 17:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from swordfish (unknown [216.241.35.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 142EE19A70 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 May 2003 17:55:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from matt by swordfish with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19CnvV-0001ig-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 05 May 2003 15:55:13 -0600 From: Matt Gushee To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Yet another VGA issue (CT65550) Message-ID: <20030505215512.GE5035@swordfish> References: <20030505200810.GC5035@swordfish> <289ce248d8b559f0b1e4588f79a7b7c0@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <289ce248d8b559f0b1e4588f79a7b7c0@plan9.bell-labs.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Matt Gushee List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 15:55:12 -0600 On Mon, May 05, 2003 at 04:24:50PM -0400, rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > > aux/vga -piV > > ------------ > > Oops, I guess not! The floppy disk containing that info has died, and my > > 9box is put away for the moment. Guess I'll have to send it later. > > Also include pci.txt. The ``not found'' message means > no hiqvideo (65550) card was found that we know how > to drive. There's only a few PCI IDs we support, and > yours isn't in the list. You know, I don't think the machine in question even has a PCI bus. It's a 1996 model. At any rate, pci.txt is empty. Here's the vga stuff. aux/vga -piV ------------ main->snarf vga->snarf vga->dump vmf 25175000 vmdf 0 vf1 0 vbw 0 vga->init vga->dump main->exits aux/vga: controller not in /lib/vgadb 0xE0000 55 AA 80 EB 3F 37 34 30 30 30 30 30 30 30 30 30 U...?74000000000 0xE0010 30 30 30 30 30 30 30 23 78 01 90 01 30 30 49 42 0000000#x...00IB 0xE0020 4D 20 56 47 41 20 43 6F 6D 70 61 74 69 62 6C 65 M VGA Compatible 0xE0030 20 42 49 4F 53 2E 20 34 1A 05 81 00 B2 01 C2 01 BIOS. 4........ 0xE0040 D0 01 F6 01 E9 F2 8F 86 D0 D2 E0 E6 40 C2 DC C8 ............@... 0xE0050 40 A8 CA C6 D0 DC DE D8 DE CE D2 CA E6 58 40 92 @............X@. 0xE0060 DC C6 5C 00 FF 01 50 55 2D 10 83 00 50 55 54 00 ..\...PU-...PUT. 0xE0070 00 00 00 07 12 CC 07 0A 18 07 0A 00 A0 7F 00 47 ...............G 0xE0080 00 00 E0 00 A0 00 00 47 00 00 00 91 16 00 00 00 .......G........ 0xE0090 54 4F 53 48 49 42 41 20 56 69 64 65 6F 20 42 49 TOSHIBA Video BI 0xE00A0 4F 53 20 56 32 2E 30 30 0D 0A 00 00 00 00 00 00 OS V2.00........ 0xE00B0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 0xE00C0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 0xE00D0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 0xE00E0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 0xE00F0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ main->snarf vga->snarf vga->dump vga misc 67 vga feature 01 vga sequencer 03 01 03 00 02 vga crt 5F 4F 50 82 55 81 BF 1F - 00 4F 0D 0E 00 00 07 80 9C 0E 8F 28 1F 96 B9 A3 - FF vga graphics 00 00 00 00 00 10 0E 00 - FF vga attribute 00 01 02 03 04 05 14 07 - 38 39 3A 3B 3C 3D 3E 3F 0C 00 0F 00 00 vga virtual 0 0 vga panning off vga apz 0 vga linear 0 vmf 25175000 vmdf 0 vf1 0 vbw 0 vga->init dbdumpmode type=vga, size=640x480x1 frequency=25175000 x=640 (0x280), y=480 (0x1E0), z=1 (0x1) ht=800 (0x320), shb=664 (0x298), ehb=760 (0x2F8) shs=664 (0x298), ehs=760 (0x2F8) vt=525 (0x20D), vrs=491 (0x1EB), vre=493 (0x1ED) hsync=0, vsync=0, interlace=0 vga->dump vga flag Fdump|Finit|Fsnarf vga misc E3 vga feature 01 vga sequencer 03 01 0F 00 06 vga crt 5F 4F 52 9F 53 1F20B 3E - 00 40 00 00 00 00 00 00 1EB 2D1DF 28 001EB1EC C3 -7FF vga graphics 00 00 00 00 00 00 05 0F - FF vga attribute 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 - 08 09 0A 0B 0C 0D 0E 0F 01 FF 0F 00 00 vga virtual 640 480 vga panning off vga apz 0 vga linear 0 main->exits -- Matt Gushee When a nation follows the Way, Englewood, Colorado, USA Horses bear manure through mgushee@havenrock.com its fields; http://www.havenrock.com/ When a nation ignores the Way, Horses bear soldiers through its streets. --Lao Tzu (Peter Merel, trans.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 07:02:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 07:02:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18124 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 07:02:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18120 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 07:02:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 07:02:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5327419AB3; Mon, 5 May 2003 18:02:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE9C819AB2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 May 2003 18:01:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h45M1sc40764; Mon, 5 May 2003 18:01:54 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: <3aa1d320f85df45b962dd95de7a68167@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Yet another VGA issue (CT65550) From: rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com In-Reply-To: <20030505215512.GE5035@swordfish> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 18:01:53 -0400 Are you sure it's a CT65550 and not a CT65540 or CT65545? If it's one of the latter, then you need to move your ID string into the ct65540 section of the vgadb. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 07:14:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 07:14:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18228 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 07:14:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18224 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 07:14:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 07:14:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E9D7E19AD4; Mon, 5 May 2003 18:14:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.monitorbm.co.nz (mail.mbmnz.co.nz [203.167.201.38]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4F9A519AB9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 May 2003 18:13:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 26225 invoked from network); 5 May 2003 22:13:22 -0000 Received: from mercury.mbmnz.co.nz (HELO MERCURY) (192.168.0.63) by mail.monitorbm.co.nz with SMTP; 5 May 2003 22:13:22 -0000 Message-ID: <01ae01c31353$ea8b0ae0$3f00a8c0@MERCURY> From: "Andrew Simmons" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <2c48f76cc19c912eb71595a28defda34@mightycheese.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 10:16:03 +1200 Re exceptions, I found the following quote from Stroustrup interesting: "A notable exception to this agreement was Doug McIlroy, who stated that the availability of exception handling would make systems less reliable because library writers and other programmers will throw exceptions rather than try to understand and handle problems. Only time will tell to what extent Doug's prediction will be true." From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 10:10:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 10:10:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22410 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 10:10:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22406 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 10:10:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 10:10:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 606FE19ADC; Mon, 5 May 2003 21:10:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1BCF619AC7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 May 2003 21:09:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <120186b3c4fc9941866283410ea990b1@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Qid path generation In-Reply-To: <4c38a7b4efba8dd7467ce1e642996f8a@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 21:09:07 -0400 > > I think there might be better ways to get a unique identifier > out of Windows these days. U9fs, for example, uses the inode > number and device number. Maybe Windows will let you get at > similar information now. > I've been using a hash of the full windows path name and the creation time as the qid. It has the advantage of working both for NTFS and FAT file systems. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 10:11:15 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 10:11:15 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22452 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 10:11:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22447 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 10:11:13 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 10:11:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9884619AE1; Mon, 5 May 2003 21:11:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D28E719AD8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 May 2003 21:10:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1b899d420ced031fb566de867397fc17@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Qid path generation In-Reply-To: <017e01c3134d$66024460$3f00a8c0@MERCURY> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 21:10:37 -0400 By the way, here's my hash function. I pass it the full path name and creation time: static uvlong hash(Rune *p, ulong seed) { ulong x; uvlong xx; x = seed; while(*p) x = x*1103515245 + 12345 + *p++; xx = x; xx <<= 32; xx |= seed; return xx; } From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 10:21:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 10:21:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22777 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 10:21:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22768 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 10:21:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 10:21:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3785C19ADE; Mon, 5 May 2003 21:21:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.monitorbm.co.nz (frontdoor.mbmnz.co.nz [203.167.201.38]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A185619ADE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 May 2003 21:20:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 28451 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 01:20:44 -0000 Received: from mercury.mbmnz.co.nz (HELO MERCURY) (192.168.0.63) by mail.monitorbm.co.nz with SMTP; 6 May 2003 01:20:44 -0000 Message-ID: <01c901c3136e$16616dc0$3f00a8c0@MERCURY> From: "Andrew Simmons" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <1b899d420ced031fb566de867397fc17@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Qid path generation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 13:23:23 +1200 > By the way, here's my hash function. I pass it the full path > name and creation time: > Thanks, I'll give that a go. I don't know much about the theory of hash keys. Does the addition of the creation date to the path significantly reduce the likelihood of collisions? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 11:00:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 11:00:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24819 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 11:00:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24815 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 11:00:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 11:00:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 02A2C19AE5; Mon, 5 May 2003 22:00:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from swordfish (unknown [216.241.35.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7AFA619AE2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 May 2003 21:59:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from matt by swordfish with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19Crk0-0001vw-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 05 May 2003 19:59:36 -0600 From: Matt Gushee To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Yet another VGA issue (CT65550) Message-ID: <20030506015936.GF5035@swordfish> References: <20030505215512.GE5035@swordfish> <3aa1d320f85df45b962dd95de7a68167@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3aa1d320f85df45b962dd95de7a68167@plan9.bell-labs.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Matt Gushee List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 19:59:36 -0600 On Mon, May 05, 2003 at 06:01:53PM -0400, rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > Are you sure it's a CT65550 and not a CT65540 or CT65545? About as sure as one could be without physically inspecting the card. The specs from Toshiba say that's what it is*; there was also a time a few years ago when the XFree86 developers were having trouble with the driver for this card, and I did a register dump for them; they seemed to think it was the right stuff. But as I suggested, there's something weird about the way it's set up on this machine, so that XFree86 configuration tools just don't work. One thing that caught my eye as I was sending an earlier message: the XF86Config had Option "sw_cursor" and I think that may have been required in order to get X working (other than FontPath settings, I haven't touched that config for over 5 years, so I'm not sure). Of course, I have no idea if that's relevant to Plan9. * I bought the computer in Japan, but I couldn't find specs for it at Toshiba's Japanese Web site, so I got them from the US site. It's the same model number, but I suppose it's conceivable that the US and Japanese models used different components. -- Matt Gushee When a nation follows the Way, Englewood, Colorado, USA Horses bear manure through mgushee@havenrock.com its fields; http://www.havenrock.com/ When a nation ignores the Way, Horses bear soldiers through its streets. --Lao Tzu (Peter Merel, trans.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 11:12:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 11:12:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25300 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 11:12:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25296 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 11:12:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 11:12:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0AC8C19AE2; Mon, 5 May 2003 22:12:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E8B8219AE7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 May 2003 22:11:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Yet another VGA issue (CT65550) In-Reply-To: <20030506015936.GF5035@swordfish> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 22:11:44 -0400 Since there's no PCI info, I'm guessing the CT65550 (if it is such) is connected via a Vesa Local Bus (VLB). The aux/vga code doesn't handle that, neither does the kernel part of the driver. Code needs to be added to recognise the chip revision and to set up the framebuffer in an unallocated memory range, etc. It's probably not hard, but awkward without the machine to hand. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 11:30:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 11:30:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26190 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 11:30:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26186 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 11:30:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 11:30:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 02F3C19992; Mon, 5 May 2003 22:30:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6990819AE8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 May 2003 22:29:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Qid path generation In-Reply-To: <01c901c3136e$16616dc0$3f00a8c0@MERCURY> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-coaqznasllkgunhzhwgxpmbofo" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 22:29:25 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-coaqznasllkgunhzhwgxpmbofo Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Actually I'm glad you asked since its made me think a bit more about it. I wanted something that would notice a file being created, deleted, and a new one created with the same name. Making the qid.version the modification time might be good enough. However, in the case of files being used only for appends, I wanted to distinguish a new version of the same file from one that just had something appended to it. Hence I used the creation time as part of the qid.path. Of course, that means that there's more likelyhood for the qid.paths of two files created in the same second to collide. If you assume we're using a sha1-like hash, the likelyhood of a collision between 2 randomly chosen files using a 64 bit hash is about 2^-32; using a 32 bit hash, 2^-16. That means that we're making it 65000 times more likely of a collision between two random files created the same second. I've now convinced myself that I'ld be better off taking 64 bits of the sha1 hash of the full path appended to the creation time. Then the likelyhood of any two files colliding is still < 2^-32 and I still distinguish two files created with the same path but at different times. Then I can also use the full 64 bit time available in NTFS. Of course, SHA1 is a lot slower than the hash I currently use but processors are getting pretty damned fast anyways. --upas-coaqznasllkgunhzhwgxpmbofo Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon May 5 21:21:18 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Mon May 5 21:21:16 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 13DDE19AD8; Mon, 5 May 2003 21:21:06 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.monitorbm.co.nz (frontdoor.mbmnz.co.nz [203.167.201.38]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A185619ADE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 May 2003 21:20:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 28451 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 01:20:44 -0000 Received: from mercury.mbmnz.co.nz (HELO MERCURY) (192.168.0.63) by mail.monitorbm.co.nz with SMTP; 6 May 2003 01:20:44 -0000 Message-ID: <01c901c3136e$16616dc0$3f00a8c0@MERCURY> From: "Andrew Simmons" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <1b899d420ced031fb566de867397fc17@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Qid path generation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 13:23:23 +1200 > By the way, here's my hash function. I pass it the full path > name and creation time: > Thanks, I'll give that a go. I don't know much about the theory of hash keys. Does the addition of the creation date to the path significantly reduce the likelihood of collisions? --upas-coaqznasllkgunhzhwgxpmbofo-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 11:43:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 11:43:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26793 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 11:43:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26789 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 11:43:14 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 11:43:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D127219AEF; Mon, 5 May 2003 22:43:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from swordfish (unknown [216.241.35.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 00E2119AE8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 May 2003 22:42:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from matt by swordfish with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19CsPT-0001ye-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 05 May 2003 20:42:27 -0600 From: Matt Gushee To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Yet another VGA issue (CT65550) Message-ID: <20030506024227.GG5035@swordfish> References: <20030506015936.GF5035@swordfish> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Matt Gushee List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 20:42:27 -0600 On Mon, May 05, 2003 at 10:11:44PM -0400, jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > Since there's no PCI info, I'm guessing the CT65550 (if it is such) > is connected via a Vesa Local Bus (VLB). Yes, that's what the specs say. > The aux/vga code doesn't handle > that, neither does the kernel part of the driver. Code needs to be > added to recognise the chip revision and to set up the framebuffer > in an unallocated memory range, etc. It's probably not hard, but awkward > without the machine to hand. :-(( Maybe I should finally learn C, so I can do it. Oh well, I guess that machine's going back to Linux. I'm not discouraged, but I want at least a windowing system and a usable text editor on that box by tomorrow, so ... I'll be back someday, as time allows. Thanks to you and 'rsc' for the prompt attention. -- Matt Gushee When a nation follows the Way, Englewood, Colorado, USA Horses bear manure through mgushee@havenrock.com its fields; http://www.havenrock.com/ When a nation ignores the Way, Horses bear soldiers through its streets. --Lao Tzu (Peter Merel, trans.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 12:06:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 12:06:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27798 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 12:06:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27794 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 12:06:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 12:06:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6017E19ADF; Mon, 5 May 2003 23:06:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 34AE419A71 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 May 2003 23:05:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Qid path generation From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 23:05:48 -0400 The 64-bit hash for qids is a good idea except that exportfs and programs like it assume that the top 16 bits are fairly low entropy so they can be renamed as necessary to present many 9P servers to a single client. Taking 48 bits of it will give you 2^24, which is halfway between the two and might be enough to appease both camps. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 15:52:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 15:52:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4828 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 15:52:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4824 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 15:52:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 15:52:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 030B919AFF; Tue, 6 May 2003 02:52:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F35F219AFB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 02:51:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h466kms17775; Tue, 6 May 2003 01:46:49 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: In-Reply-To: <20030505200810.GC5035@swordfish> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Re: Yet another VGA issue (CT65550) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 01:46:48 -0500 (CDT) On Mon, 5 May 2003, Matt Gushee wrote: > Hello, all-- > > Well, I have wanted to try out Plan9 for some time, and finally decided > to take the plunge. I have installed the distribution on my old Toshiba > Satellite Pro 420CDS, which has a Chips & Tech 65550 video card. I have > got a working system--I can log in, navigate around, execute various > commands, etc., but I can't get VGA working. Actually, this is not a > complete surprise, because I've run Linux on this box for several years, > and had a hell of a time getting XFree86 working Interesting in that I've got a 445CDX (if memory serves it uses the same chipset) and had zero problem with X under Linux, though I gave up on Plan 9 windowing a long time ago (this was before Toshiba actually 'supported' Linux even). Have you tried another 420CDS to make sure yours is all hunkey dorey? The general experience of the 4xx Sat Pro's was positive under Linux for the vast majority of users. If you work on it and need somebody to test a mod I'll help. I've recently come into access (though not strict possession) of an iBook (2 ed, slate & white) anybody know if it works once a PPC version of Plan 9 is compiled? To that end, I'd be interested in hearing of any experience doing cross-compiles x86 -> PPC, I assume you don't need the --host and --target like with the gcc tools... -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 16:02:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 16:02:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5293 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 16:02:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5289 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 16:02:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 16:02:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 70ED219B00; Tue, 6 May 2003 03:02:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 24BA519AEE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 03:01:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h466vHn17884 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 01:57:17 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Yet another VGA issue (CT65550) In-Reply-To: <3aa1d320f85df45b962dd95de7a68167@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 01:57:17 -0500 (CDT) On Mon, 5 May 2003 rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > Are you sure it's a CT65550 and not a CT65540 or CT65545? > If it's one of the latter, then you need to move your ID string > into the ct65540 section of the vgadb. I believe the 445 uses 65554. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 16:16:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 16:16:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6035 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 16:16:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6031 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 16:16:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 16:16:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2DE7A19B06; Tue, 6 May 2003 03:16:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail-out.gom.com (mail-out.gom.com [217.13.79.47]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 09A4F19AEE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 03:15:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by mail-out.gom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA09457 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 09:15:42 +0200 Received: from service.gom.com (service.gom.com [217.13.79.41]) by mail-in.gom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA09364 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 09:15:41 +0200 Received: from bilbo (bilbo.gom.com [192.168.0.5]) by service.gom.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h467FfG07201 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 09:15:41 +0200 From: "M.Stein" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Yet another VGA issue (CT65550) In-Reply-To: <289ce248d8b559f0b1e4588f79a7b7c0@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-AntiVirus: scanned for viruses by AMaViS (http://amavis.org/) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 09:15:41 +0200 (MEST) Hello All, this is only for your information: the 65555 chip works too, when adding 'case 0x00E5' in vgahiqvideo.c/hiqvideo.c and setting the frame buffer size to 4Mb (tested with Kontron IP LiteII). matthias On Mon, 5 May 2003 rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > > aux/vga -piV > > ------------ > > Oops, I guess not! The floppy disk containing that info has died, and my > > 9box is put away for the moment. Guess I'll have to send it later. > > Also include pci.txt. The ``not found'' message means > no hiqvideo (65550) card was found that we know how > to drive. There's only a few PCI IDs we support, and > yours isn't in the list. > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 17:00:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 17:00:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7969 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 17:00:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7964 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 17:00:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 17:00:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E93D019B05; Tue, 6 May 2003 04:00:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EEBF319AEE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 03:59:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5ca5042ddbc027fc1e2d2a728e91b385@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Yet another VGA issue (CT65550) From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 08:47:00 +0100 >>doing cross-compiles x86 -> PPC, I assume you don't need the --host and >>--target like with the gcc tools... no, as you suggested, that part's trivial with plan 9: a cross-compiler suite is simply a compiler suite compiled for some other architecture than its target. thus, compile qa, qc, ql on x86 (or anything else), run them, and they generate code for powerpc. for commands and libraries, use objtype=power mk install in /sys/src and it will make and install /power versions of everything (except to the extent that it runs into dented mkfiles or source files). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 18:16:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 18:16:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15166 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 18:16:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15162 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 18:16:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 18:16:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2727519ACC; Tue, 6 May 2003 05:16:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D472819A78 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 05:15:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19CySr-0007A8-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 06 May 2003 10:10:21 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: William Ahern Message-ID: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Subject: [9fans] return of fd2path Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 09:09:57 GMT i writing a little program which needs to keep track of paths to open file descriptors [on *bsd/linux]. i wrote a lexical path normalizer, which is almost exactly the same as cleanname(), but i only figured that out afterwards (and after i found SUSv3's realpath() ;). anyhow, i also found fd2path(). so i'm in the process of shuffling my code to mimic the semantics of cleanname() and fd2path(), just 'cause i like their simplicity and might as well work toward an existing interface. _anyhow_, one thing that bugs me is the return value of fd2path(). why not make the return value similar to SUSv3's snprintf()? that is, return the length of the logical string? i saw a few posts on this. one was to make the return value the remainder of the logical length and the buffer length. another pointed out that inferno just returned a malloc'd string on its own. but, why force the developer to continually use strlen()? in my application i am keeping track of the length of the file paths from the instance the strings enter the program. i try to use only string functions that force superfluous use strlen(). the semantics of snprintf() seem quite reasonable. in fact, i can't really figure out a down side... anybody? i'm not trying to micro-optomize here, but in this case it doesn't make any sense to continually re-calculate the length of a string. curious.... - Bill From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 18:23:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 18:23:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17099 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 18:23:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17095 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 18:23:14 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 18:23:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE84D19AD2; Tue, 6 May 2003 05:23:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F3C9B19AD0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 05:22:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19CySK-00078S-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 06 May 2003 10:09:48 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EB37781.1030903@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <3EB1E0F1.6060908@null.net>, <2c48f76cc19c912eb71595a28defda34@mightycheese.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 09:09:32 GMT rob pike, esq. wrote: >>(a) uniform, tested error handling instead of ad-hoc > only for certain kinds of errors. you still need to write explicit > code (perhaps using exceptions) for many kinds of errors. The point is that the same mechanism is used everywhere. Of course when the current higher-level handling strategy is not what is wanted in a specific situation, one has to provide an implementation of whatever strategy is wanted for that situation. That strategy can take advantage of the more global one to field exceptions that the local code doesn't know how to handle. >>(b) ensures reasonable default when user neglects to >>deal with the possibility of failre > a weak premise and again, only for certain errors. The current handler for the thrown exception class fields whatever exceptions the local code doesn't know about. Or, the local code could handle the unknown exception classes if it really wants total control. The programmer gets to decide, but in the (all too frequent) case where he hasn't anticipated a failure, at least the next higher level does whatever it deemed appropriate, which is generally better than proceeding to compute "at random" with bogus data. >>(c) no need for explicit tests of function error >>returns > therefore subverting programming discipline. It's just a different form of discipline. The main improvement is that the main logic is much more visible, since there is no clutter from testing for all those things that are incidental to the intended function of the components. I.e. malloc's job is to allocate a chunk of storage, not really to test whether the program has run out of heap space. The latter hopefully never occurs, so almost all the time those tests are for naught. I'm sure we have all seen lots of code where the programmer doesn't bother to check for a null return from malloc, which he has (good but not perfect) reason to think will not occur. Such a programmer is a happier one, and with exception handling in place running out of heap gets caught and reported without bothering the programmer at all. >>Basically, it's a way to impose order on chaos. > and replace it with a mysterious, hard to understand > mechanism with a tendency to overlay a program's > structure with confusing, noisy error-handling > details. If you're going to handle errors, the code has to exist one way or another. A good exception facility centralizes the error handling in a corner away from the main logic. Error handling inherently interferes with the main logic; it is easier to verify loop invariants etc. if one doesn't have the "error terms" in the assertions. Usually the corner with the error handling can be verified as doing the correct thing much more simply than if the possible error cases are scattered through the main logic. > i'm not a fan of exceptions. good programming > can trump them every time; bad exception handling > can destroy a program. they're an interesting idea > but i judge them a failure. I have the opposite opinion. I took a substantial chunk of code from BRL's MUVES project, which was very careful to "unwind" partial operations upon errors, and rewrote it using a C exception package. The result was cleaner looking, easier to follow, and somewhat smaller, with explicit gotos (necessary to unwind nested operations) removed. That is a win. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 18:23:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 18:23:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17107 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 18:23:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17103 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 18:23:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 18:23:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6554219AE8; Tue, 6 May 2003 05:23:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7D1BB19A8E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 05:22:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19CySr-0007AF-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 06 May 2003 10:10:21 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Jeff Sickel Message-ID: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Subject: [9fans] Globus attempt (until new software is available) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 09:10:08 GMT Has anyone else attempted to port the Globus software to Plan 9? Even from the beginning, un-tarring some of the base packages falls over due to the error -- cannot create: name too long. Aside from the file name length, I was going to try and use APE for an initial pass at the port. jas From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 18:27:15 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 18:27:15 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18022 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 18:27:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18018 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 18:27:14 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 18:27:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 816AE19AE3; Tue, 6 May 2003 05:27:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0391219A78 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 05:26:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19CySr-0007A1-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 06 May 2003 10:10:21 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Erik Irsch Message-ID: Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] plan9 for sparc Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 09:09:46 GMT X-No-archive: yes I have here one SS4, six SS2 and one sparcclassic sparc maschines. At the moment Amoeba 5.3 is running. The latest Plan9 distribution has no support for sparc included. But the older release 2 seems to have support for sparc. My problem: Where can I find the old distribution? Is there a way to run Plan9 on this maschines? -Erik From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 18:56:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 18:56:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24290 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 18:56:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24286 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 18:56:14 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 18:56:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C042E19AC0; Tue, 6 May 2003 05:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5B19719AA9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 05:55:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <55a33ec029694dd88e64feeb1f6acb99@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Yet another VGA issue (CT65550) From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <5ca5042ddbc027fc1e2d2a728e91b385@caldo.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 10:42:57 +0100 >>is simply a compiler suite compiled for some other architecture than its target. of course i meant, `compiled on some architecture other than ...', not `compiled for ...'. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 20:42:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 20:42:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27379 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 20:42:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27375 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 20:42:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 20:42:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 946CA19ABC; Tue, 6 May 2003 07:42:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 289D419A8E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 07:41:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19D0dz-0002si-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 06 May 2003 12:29:59 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Aharon Robbins Message-ID: Organization: Pioneer Consulting, Ltd. References: <4c38a7b4efba8dd7467ce1e642996f8a@plan9.bell-labs.com>, <018e01c3134f$af81cf50$3f00a8c0@MERCURY> Subject: Re: [9fans] Qid path generation Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 11:29:25 GMT In article <018e01c3134f$af81cf50$3f00a8c0@MERCURY>, Andrew Simmons <9fans@cse.psu.edu> wrote: >> I think there might be better ways to get a unique identifier >> out of Windows these days. > >You'd think so, but I'm buggered if I can find them. I'll keep looking. >Thanks. There is some low-level windows function, something like _realpath() that takes a filename and returns the full path to the file; this is guaranteed to be unique. I don't know if that helps any. Arnold -- Aharon (Arnold) Robbins --- Pioneer Consulting Ltd. arnold@skeeve.com P.O. Box 354 Home Phone: +972 8 979-0381 Fax: +1 928 569 9018 Nof Ayalon Cell Phone: +972 51 297-545 D.N. Shimshon 99785 ISRAEL From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 20:47:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 20:47:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27428 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 20:47:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27424 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 20:47:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 20:47:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 08F2319AC9; Tue, 6 May 2003 07:47:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1A3D519AC6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 07:46:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h46BgOv20387 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 06:42:24 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <5ca5042ddbc027fc1e2d2a728e91b385@caldo.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Cross-Building (was: Yet another VGA issue (CT65550)) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 06:42:24 -0500 (CDT) On Tue, 6 May 2003, Charles Forsyth wrote: > for commands and libraries, use > objtype=power > mk install > in /sys/src and it will make and install /power versions of everything > (except to the extent that it runs into dented mkfiles or source files). Thanks for the feedback Charles. And would anybody have actually tried this and identified 'dented' files? And speaking of alternate targets, I've got an old Tadpole 3GX SparcStation 5 equiv. laptop, I assume the ISDN adapter is -not- supported but should otherwise work pretty much as a regular SparcStation 5 would behave? I've also got a IBM (Tadpole) N40 laptop that is currently using AIX 3.2.5, anybody try this particular model? -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 21:06:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 21:06:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27806 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 21:06:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27802 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 21:06:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 21:06:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B900519AE0; Tue, 6 May 2003 08:06:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4507E19ACD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 08:05:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7a409c268c8bd2ea816cfb9e99abab03@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9 for sparc From: C H Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 13:08:20 +0100 >>My problem: Where can I find the old distribution? on sources the directory extra includes sun.tgz that contains 2nd edition (amongst other things) ./sys/src/9.95/ with ss2 and ss10 sources. my lx/classic 2nd edition port (a variant of above) is in http://www.caldo.demon.co.uk/plan9/dist/lx.tgz but could be moved to contrib on sources (as far as i'm concerned). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 23:30:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 23:30:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29835 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 23:30:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29831 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 23:30:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 23:30:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 60DAF19AE7; Tue, 6 May 2003 10:30:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from terra (217-126-87-19.uc.nombres.ttd.es [217.126.87.19]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9FE1E19AE6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 10:29:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "Programa en dos meses" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Message-Id: <20030506142904.9FE1E19AE6@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] Aprenda o mejore sus idiomas Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 16:30:10 Información y Reservas en: www.londonlanguages.net Fax 934319444 ó mail: cial@londonlanguages.net Colaboramos con Universidades y Colegios Mayores Le proporcionamos una enseñanza de idiomas de calidad con profesores bilingües o nativos. Aprenda o mejore sus idiomas. Creamos hábitos de conversación. Solventamos fracasos anteriores. Garantía total. Solo se cobran las clases impartidas/por horas, previa factura a fin de mes. Proponga en su empresa organizar grupos reducidos con algun compañero. Nuestros profesores se desplazan a su empresa o domicilio en horas programadas. El aprendizaje de idiomas hoy, se considera un plus laboral. Pida información y disponibilidad, completando la ficha en nuestra web . http://www.londonlanguages.net Fax 934319444 ó mail: cial@londonlanguages.net Cumplimos con la ley vigente en cuanto a la protección de datos. Para bajas Haga un reply en la cabecera o en e/mail:infor@londonlanguages.net From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 6 23:37:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 6 23:37:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29927 invoked by uid 1020); 6 May 2003 23:37:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29923 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 23:37:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 May 2003 23:37:37 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 555F419AFC; Tue, 6 May 2003 10:37:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sigint.cs.purdue.edu (sigint.cs.purdue.edu [128.10.2.82]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CEBC919AFB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 10:36:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sigint.cs.purdue.edu (Postfix, from userid 118) id 3C6C4279C; Tue, 6 May 2003 09:36:24 -0500 (EST) From: splite@purdue.edu To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Yet another VGA issue (CT65550) Message-ID: <20030506093624.A25826@sigint.cs.purdue.edu> References: <20030505200810.GC5035@swordfish> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030505200810.GC5035@swordfish>; from mgushee@havenrock.com on Mon, May 05, 2003 at 02:08:10PM -0600 X-Disclaimer: Any similarity to an opinion of Purdue is purely coincidental Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 09:36:24 -0500 On Mon, May 05, 2003 at 02:08:10PM -0600, Matt Gushee wrote: > > Well, I have wanted to try out Plan9 for some time, and finally decided > to take the plunge. I have installed the distribution on my old Toshiba > Satellite Pro 420CDS, which has a Chips & Tech 65550 video card. I have Dunno if this will help you, but here are the changes I made to a 3rd Ed. system to get video working on an old Toshiba (Libretto, I think) with a CT65550 (HiQV32) chipset in VLB mode. (Sorry for the format; I don't have a Plan 9 machine running at the moment. I can make the full source files available, if that would be more useful.) diff hiqvideo.c.orig hiqvideo.c 50a51,52 > enum {DUNNO, CT65550, CT65554, CT69000}; > int model=DUNNO; 55,58c57,86 < if((p = pcimatch(nil, 0x102C, 0)) == nil) < error("%s: not found\n", ctlr->name); < switch(p->did){ < case 0x00C0: /* 69000 HiQVideo */ --- > if((p = pcimatch(nil, 0x102C, 0))){ > switch(p->did){ > case 0x00C0: /* 69000 HiQVideo */ > model=CT69000; > break; > case 0x00E0: /* 65550 HiQV32 */ > model=CT65550; > break; > case 0x00E4: /* 65554 HiQV64 */ > model=CT65554; > break; > default: > error("%s: PCI DID %4.4uX unsupported\n", > ctlr->name, p->did); > } > } > else{ > switch(hiqvideoxi(Xrx, 0x02)){ > case 0xE0: > case 0xE4: > model=CT65550; > print("%s: found CT65550 in VLB mode\n", ctlr->name); > break; > default: > error("%s: not found\n", ctlr->name); > } > } > hqv->pci = p; > switch(model){ > case CT69000: 62,63c90,91 < case 0x00E0: /* 65550 HiQV32 */ < case 0x00E4: /* 65554 HiQV32 */ --- > case CT65550: > case CT65554: 67,69d94 < default: < error("%s: DID %4.4uX unsupported\n", < ctlr->name, p->did); 71d95 < hqv->pci = p; 84,85c108,109 < switch(hqv->pci->did){ < case 0x00C0: /* 69000 HiQVideo */ --- > switch(model){ > case CT69000: /* 69000 HiQVideo */ 89,90c113,114 < case 0x00E0: /* 65550 HiQV32 */ < case 0x00E4: /* 65554 HiQV32 */ --- > case CT65550: /* 65550 HiQV32 */ > case CT65554: /* 65554 HiQV64 */ diff vgahiqvideo.c.orig vgahiqvideo.c 15a16,17 > Pos102 = 0x102, /* Global Enable */ > Vse = 0x3C3, /* Video Subsystem Enable */ 53c55 < case 0x00E4: /* 65554 HiQV32 */ --- > case 0x00E4: /* 65554 HiQV64 */ 60a63,72 > else{ /* check for 65550 in VLB mode */ > switch(hiqvideoxi(Xrx, 0x02)){ > case 0xE0: > case 0xE4: > *size = *align = 8*1024*1024; > break; > default: > break; > } > } 80a93,100 > if (aperture && !p){ /* set aperature by hand if in VLB mode */ > int v; > v = hiqvideoxi(Xrx, 0x0A); > hiqvideoxo(Xrx, 0x0A, v | 0x02); > hiqvideoxo(Xrx, 0x20, 0x00); > hiqvideoxo(Xrx, 0x05, (aperture>>16) & 0xFF); > hiqvideoxo(Xrx, 0x06, (aperture>>24) & 0xFF); > } 103c123 < case 0x00E4: /* 65554 HiQV32 */ --- > case 0x00E4: /* 65554 HiQV64 */ 104a125,128 > case 0: > vmsize = 1*1024*1024; > break; > case 1: 105a130,144 > vmsize = 2*1024*1024; > break; > } > break; > default: > return; > } > size = p->mem[0].size; > align = 0; > } > else{ /* maybe in VLB mode? */ > switch(hiqvideoxi(Xrx, 0x02)){ > case 0xE0: > case 0xE4: > switch((hiqvideoxi(Xrx, 0x43)>>1) & 0x03){ 109a149 > default: 112a153 > size = align = 8*1024*1024; 118,119d158 < else < return; 121,122d159 < size = p->mem[0].size; < align = 0; From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 00:47:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 00:47:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31518 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 00:47:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31514 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 00:47:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 00:47:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 461A219B07; Tue, 6 May 2003 11:47:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from magnum.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3484C19AE6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 11:46:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from robin.cooper.edu by magnum.cooper.edu with SMTP id AA12032 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>); Tue, 6 May 2003 11:50:29 -0400 Received: from localhost by robin.cooper.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA13471; Tue, 6 May 2003 11:46:17 -0400 From: Joel Salomon To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere In-Reply-To: <3EB37781.1030903@null.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Joel Salomon List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 11:46:16 -0400 (EDT) "Douglas A. Gwyn" wrote: > The main improvement is that the main logic is much more visible, since > there is no clutter from testing for all those things that are > incidental to the intended function of the components Except in java, where *everything* (almost) that can be thrown must be checked for. Good thing that port was stopped. Fortunately, I don't think that Java's idiocy can be imposed by any C based exception package. Just my $.02 --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 01:13:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 01:13:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32008 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 01:13:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32004 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 01:13:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 01:13:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D18AB19B10; Tue, 6 May 2003 12:13:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AFDE819B0E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 12:12:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Globus attempt (until new software is available) From: C H Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 17:15:25 +0100 lnfs(4) will help you with the names, but it's hard to see what could help you with the contents of those tar files when you unpack them... (i don't mean managing to compile them--perhaps APE could cope.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 02:36:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 02:36:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 823 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 02:36:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 819 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 02:36:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 02:36:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A231019B20; Tue, 6 May 2003 13:36:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CB4DC19B1A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 13:35:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h46Hbx9p021682 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 11:37:59 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h46HbxGu021678 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 11:37:59 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Globus attempt (until new software is available) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 11:37:58 -0600 (MDT) On Tue, 6 May 2003, C H Forsyth wrote: > lnfs(4) will help you with the names, but it's hard to see > what could help you with the contents of those tar files when you unpack them... > (i don't mean managing to compile them--perhaps APE could cope.) > lnfs would help, but then globus needs GPT (globus packaging toolkit) to unarchive the rest, it would require perl to exist on the system, then GPT would attempt to compile for one of the [gcc|cc] compilers, [32|64] bits and [debug|''] targets. That means gcc needs to be installed _and_ working. The fun part comes when GPT would not display anything it does, except the errors/warnings, which tells you fsck all about what's hapening. Then there is a slight library problem -- you may never be sure which libraries need to be installed. Then there's the X509 ceritficate problems -- you need to ask ANL to sign your certificate. Then there is... Well, I wrote a very inflamatory anti-globus mail about half an hour ago but decided against posting it.. In short -- Globus doesn't have a place in Plan9, for Plan9 stands against anything that Globus is (baroque, bloated, complex, non-KISS)... Porting it to Plan9 would be the least of your problems :) andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 02:55:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 02:55:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1014 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 02:55:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1010 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 02:55:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 02:55:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 10A8C19B28; Tue, 6 May 2003 13:55:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 001FE19B21 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 13:54:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h46HsPfD031782 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 11:54:25 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h46HsPIG026114 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 11:54:25 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Globus attempt (until new software is available) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 11:52:51 -0600 (MDT) Andrey is right. Globus is a band-aid for all the stuff you can't do on Unix that Plan 9 does already. Putting Globus on Plan 9 is bringing coals to newcastle, ice to eskimos, oil to the middle east. Well, anyway, don't do it. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 03:25:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 03:25:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1371 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 03:25:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1367 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 03:25:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 03:25:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2CC4D19B34; Tue, 6 May 2003 14:25:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C9E1219B19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 14:24:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <02618374130ebdd5134f41b110f18a3c@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] winname: undocumented file in rio. From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 19:28:14 +0100 > < .B winname > < contains the string window.n1.n2 where n1 is the number for the window > < and n2 is the number of times the window has been renamed. Typically it > < indicates the number of resizes and moves it has suffered. that reminds me: there's a bug in the way that rio uses winname which can cause applications to fall over. it's a race: if i try to resize a window several times in quick succession, rio can have destroyed a window's image before the application has actually acquired it with namedimage(). various applications, including acme, panic if this happens. the problem is not fixable "properly" without adding some sort of acknowledgment channel to rio so an application can tell rio that it has successfully acquired the new image. this seems like overkill, especially as it's hardly ever a problem. i think the best solution might just be to continue to use the old image in the meantime, as the nature of the problem means that it will resolve itself once the rest of the resize events have been delivered. (after all, there *is* an image for the window, it just isn't the one that the application currently has the name for). does this seem reasonable? the implementation should be trivial. i have been bitten by this several times; having an acme window suddenly die is most annoying! cheers, rog. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 03:41:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 03:41:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1706 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 03:41:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1702 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 03:41:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 03:41:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 43BF519B37; Tue, 6 May 2003 14:41:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 56FFE199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 14:40:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1092ecb1fccdb5af51c89a1854558c4f@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <3EB37781.1030903@null.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 19:43:53 +0100 > If you're going to handle errors, the code has to exist one way or > another. A good exception facility centralizes the error handling in > a corner away from the main logic. Error handling inherently > interferes with the main logic; it is easier to verify loop invariants > etc. if one doesn't have the "error terms" in the assertions. > Usually the corner with the error handling can be verified as doing > the correct thing much more simply than if the possible error cases > are scattered through the main logic. what kinds of exceptional conditions are you thinking about here? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 05:53:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 05:53:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3306 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 05:53:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3302 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 05:53:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 05:53:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 888A019B3F; Tue, 6 May 2003 16:53:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from web10302.mail.yahoo.com (web10302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.80]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2275F19B3C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 16:52:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <20030506205237.76067.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.37.146.6] by web10302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 06 May 2003 22:52:37 CEST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Oscar=20Cuadrado?= To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] Sorry, i'm a novice Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 22:52:37 +0200 (CEST) Hi, 9fans: I met plan 9 in a talk in the UAM in Madrid (Spain) about security in Plan 9 and i was 'flashed' when Russ Cox introduced some concepts of this OS. So here i am, trying to initiate me in Plan 9. My request is for some instructions about installation, first steps, plan9 applications programming and similars... I expect you to have any time to spend with a novice, and thanks very much to all. Grettings. Square. P.D.: i've downloaded some manuals but i prefer the first-hand information ;) ___________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Nueva versión GRATIS Super Webcam, voz, caritas animadas, y más... http://messenger.yahoo.es From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 06:49:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 06:49:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3915 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 06:49:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3911 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 06:49:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 06:49:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E55A919B41; Tue, 6 May 2003 17:49:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6CDB019B39 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 17:48:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h46Lm9c01301; Tue, 6 May 2003 17:48:09 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Sorry, i'm a novice From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030506205237.76067.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 17:48:09 -0400 The best information about installation and first steps is on the wiki: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 06:57:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 06:57:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4024 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 06:57:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4020 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 06:57:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 06:57:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ABD7219B43; Tue, 6 May 2003 17:57:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from thefrayedknot.armory.com (thefrayedknot.armory.com [192.122.209.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1C2DC19B1E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 17:56:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 18849 invoked by uid 1000); 6 May 2003 21:56:04 -0000 From: Andrew To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Sorry, i'm a novice Message-ID: <20030506215604.GA10387@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030506205237.76067.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030506205237.76067.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 14:56:04 -0700 Im a novice too, but I'll share some insight, scattered thoughts, and experience. its a long post, so I apologize. I think the first thing to figure out is what sort of installation are you aiming for? Did you want to stay with just a standalone system or expand out to a multi-system installation? if you are just interested in getting going with plan9 I would just go for a standalone system and later if you want, expand out. When I first installed plan9, I knew from the start that I wanted to grow past a single system. In retrospect I probably spent too little time learning about the system to attack setting up a full distributed system. Most of what I figured out was by doing. The manuals and wiki are enough to get you going, but from then on you just have to play around and break stuff. I think my dad put it best, learning an OS is kind of like wandering around in San Francisco, the way you figure out where things are is to get yourself completely lost, then find your way about out again. Its often not easy, but you learn a lot doing it. Whenever I've had a major problem, such that ive almost given up and asked the list, a solution presented itself a few moments later. I would (like to) imagine many other people have had similiar experiences. The pleasant thing about plan9 is there arent many surprises or hidden traps, everything is simple, when you finally figure something out, you think to yourself 'well of course, that makes perfect sense!' To get going, unless things have changed, get a floppy image from website. Then boot from there. The installer should get you a basic system going. From then, well...try to set up basic services. Try building a kernel, if you're like me your jaw will drop when you see how fast a kernel compile goes compared to most unix kernels. I would play around with factotum, and binding namespaces in creative ways. Learn sam, its like ed, but has some cool features. If you're brave learn ed. Ive learned to use it since most of my 'servers' lack decent video cards and boot to the console. Learn how the boot process works. the plan9.ini file has gotten pretty simple, but its still good to understand the process. You'll also want to get reasonably comfortable with replica, so you can keep your system updated. If you're feeling pretty comfortable and want to expand, try adding a cpu/fossil server. despite what the wiki says, bootstrapping a fossil system is actually pretty easy. The only real glitch I had was getting the system on the network quickly, which involved adding two lines to the boot file. Try making terminals, I usually make them hard-driveless, and boot from the floppy. Andrew On Tue, May 06, 2003 at 10:52:37PM +0200, Oscar Cuadrado wrote: > Hi, 9fans: > > I met plan 9 in a talk in the UAM in Madrid (Spain) > about security in Plan 9 and i was 'flashed' when Russ > Cox introduced some concepts of this OS. > > So here i am, trying to initiate me in Plan 9. My > request is for some instructions about installation, > first steps, plan9 applications programming and > similars... > > I expect you to have any time to spend with a > novice, and thanks very much to all. > > Grettings. > > Square. > > P.D.: i've downloaded some manuals but i prefer the > first-hand information ;) > > ___________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Messenger - Nueva versi?n GRATIS > Super Webcam, voz, caritas animadas, y m?s... > http://messenger.yahoo.es From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 07:15:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 07:15:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4164 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 07:15:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4160 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 07:15:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 07:15:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C9BB919B3E; Tue, 6 May 2003 18:15:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D8285199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 18:14:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h46MEgc04487; Tue, 6 May 2003 18:14:42 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: <2d8800b0f61ceda69b28fca507d7f2ab@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Sorry, i'm a novice From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030506215604.GA10387@thefrayedknot.armory.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 18:14:41 -0400 > with factotum, and binding namespaces in creative ways. Learn sam, > its like ed, but has some cool features. If you're brave learn ed. Ive > learned to use it since most of my 'servers' lack decent video cards > and boot to the console. Learn acme! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 07:32:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 07:32:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4344 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 07:32:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4340 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 07:32:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 07:32:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7FCE119B04; Tue, 6 May 2003 18:32:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.monitorbm.co.nz (smtp.monitorbm.co.nz [203.167.201.38]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id ED4BF19AFD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 18:31:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 7105 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 22:31:08 -0000 Received: from mercury.mbmnz.co.nz (HELO MERCURY) (192.168.0.63) by mail.monitorbm.co.nz with SMTP; 6 May 2003 22:31:08 -0000 Message-ID: <02a801c3141f$8ff27880$3f00a8c0@MERCURY> From: "Andrew Simmons" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030506205237.76067.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Sorry, i'm a novice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 10:33:48 +1200 I'm just a dabbler rather than a serious user, but I found running under VMWare a very painless way of getting familiar with the system without going through the installation troubles that some people have. Having played around for a while, I took the plunge and installed on a real machine - the instructions on the Wiki are straightforward to follow, and I was lucky enough to have just about no problems except a slight hiccup configuring the screen resolution. (As a bonus, the installation found a 1GB partition I never knew I had. Thanks guys.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 07:55:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 07:55:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4628 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 07:55:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4624 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 07:55:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 07:55:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BAF8D19B32; Tue, 6 May 2003 18:55:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from thefrayedknot.armory.com (thefrayedknot.armory.com [192.122.209.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3DE28199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 18:54:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 4297 invoked by uid 1000); 6 May 2003 22:54:40 -0000 From: Andrew To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Sorry, i'm a novice Message-ID: <20030506225440.GA3535@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030506215604.GA10387@thefrayedknot.armory.com> <2d8800b0f61ceda69b28fca507d7f2ab@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2d8800b0f61ceda69b28fca507d7f2ab@plan9.bell-labs.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 15:54:40 -0700 On Tue, May 06, 2003 at 06:14:41PM -0400, Russ Cox wrote: > > with factotum, and binding namespaces in creative ways. Learn sam, > > its like ed, but has some cool features. If you're brave learn ed. Ive > > learned to use it since most of my 'servers' lack decent video cards > > and boot to the console. > > Learn acme! > how does one edit files in acme? ive never been able to figure that out. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 10:26:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 10:26:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9019 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 10:26:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9015 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 10:26:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 10:26:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0805819B47; Tue, 6 May 2003 21:26:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA32019AFD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 21:25:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Sorry, i'm a novice From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030506225440.GA3535@thefrayedknot.armory.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 21:25:57 -0400 The wiki has a nice tutorial, as does /usr/glenda/readme.acme in a stock install. If you log in as glenda after an install, the tutorial comes up automatically. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 10:40:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 10:40:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9519 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 10:40:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9515 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 10:40:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 10:40:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2A48019B48; Tue, 6 May 2003 21:40:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B28F419B0F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 21:39:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h470hoa9008867 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 20:43:50 -0400 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Sorry, i'm a novice In-Reply-To: <20030506225440.GA3535@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 20:43:50 -0400 (EDT) > how does one edit files in acme? > ive never been able to figure that out. > Plan9 is so easy to install, even the illiterate can do it. Sam rtfm, inc From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 11:42:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 11:42:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12432 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 11:42:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12428 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 11:42:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 11:42:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A669319B49; Tue, 6 May 2003 22:42:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.185]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4E22C19B03 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 22:41:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-41-91.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.41.91 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2003 02:41:58 -0000 Message-ID: <3EB88049.8090204@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: dbailey27@ameritech.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] VMware Ethernet Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 22:40:57 -0500 Hey all, We've had four of five people join #plan9, on EFnet, in the last month or so, with problems relating to their VMware image. The problem is always that, after an: ip/ipconfig -g GATE ether /net/ether0 ip mask ... said user is unable to make contact with the network in any form. At first, I simply assumed it was a user failure in {dns,cs}, but, writing raw data to '#l0/data' also fails to manifest on the local network, yet, does not generate any errors on the local system. All I can surmise is that there is some kind of disconnection between the VMware and the underlying system. Not having used VMware, I don't exactly know how to debug this situation. Since noone has brought the issue up to 9Fans (I've been waiting...) I thought I would. I'd like to know the solution. Don From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 11:49:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 11:49:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12768 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 11:49:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12764 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 11:49:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 11:49:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0A05919B4E; Tue, 6 May 2003 22:49:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from thefrayedknot.armory.com (thefrayedknot.armory.com [192.122.209.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id AAA1D19B46 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 22:48:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 16751 invoked by uid 1000); 7 May 2003 02:48:14 -0000 From: Andrew To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Sorry, i'm a novice Message-ID: <20030507024814.GA17269@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030506205237.76067.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> <02a801c3141f$8ff27880$3f00a8c0@MERCURY> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <02a801c3141f$8ff27880$3f00a8c0@MERCURY> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 19:48:14 -0700 One other thing I do a lot is use the drawterm program. I dont even know if its supported anymore, and its not a real plan9 terminal, but you can connect to plan9 cpu server and play around a bit, its basically like a terminal you ran 'cpu' in then ran rio. My network has finally gotten setup (ie yesterday) to the point that im mostly comfortable giving out free accounts just for fun. So if you want to go that route, anyone is certainly welcome to an account. On Wed, May 07, 2003 at 10:33:48AM +1200, Andrew Simmons wrote: > I'm just a dabbler rather than a serious user, but I found running under > VMWare a very painless way of getting familiar with the system without going > through the installation troubles that some people have. Having played > around for a while, I took the plunge and installed on a real machine - the > instructions on the Wiki are straightforward to follow, and I was lucky > enough to have just about no problems except a slight hiccup configuring the > screen resolution. (As a bonus, the installation found a 1GB partition I > never knew I had. Thanks guys.) > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 11:58:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 11:58:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13256 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 11:58:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13252 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 11:58:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 11:58:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 969B819B26; Tue, 6 May 2003 22:58:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.182]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 591B119AC7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 22:57:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-41-91.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.41.91 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2003 02:57:15 -0000 Message-ID: <3EB883DF.1050209@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Sorry, i'm a novice References: <20030506205237.76067.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> <02a801c3141f$8ff27880$3f00a8c0@MERCURY> <20030507024814.GA17269@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 22:56:15 -0500 > > >My network has finally >gotten setup (ie yesterday) to the point that im mostly comfortable >giving out free accounts just for fun. So if you want to go that route, >anyone is certainly welcome to an account. > Beware geeks bearing gifts ;) jk > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 12:19:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 12:19:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13949 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 12:19:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13945 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 12:19:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 12:19:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 87FEB19B46; Tue, 6 May 2003 23:19:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3AE5A19AC7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 23:18:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h473IKqt014666; Tue, 6 May 2003 21:18:20 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h473IJIG014047; Tue, 6 May 2003 21:18:19 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: dbailey27@ameritech.net Subject: Re: [9fans] VMware Ethernet In-Reply-To: <3EB88049.8090204@ameritech.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 21:16:45 -0600 (MDT) On Tue, 6 May 2003, northern snowfall wrote: > We've had four of five people join #plan9, > on EFnet, in the last month or so, with problems > relating to their VMware image. The problem is > always that, after an: > ip/ipconfig -g GATE ether /net/ether0 ip mask ... I've had lots of weird problems with vmware, esp. after a resume. The problems range from vmware can send, but not receive, or it can receive, but not send, or it thinks there is another host out there with the same ip, or ... Sometimes you can fix the problem by just running snoopy. Honest. So, vmware is a truly wonderful thing and i would be dead without it, but at the same time, I am setting up a T21 for continued work. The network is just too crazy sometimes. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 12:32:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 12:32:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14370 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 12:32:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14363 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 12:32:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 12:32:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B789319B4A; Tue, 6 May 2003 23:32:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EB06A19AC7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 23:31:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] VMware Ethernet From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 23:31:00 -0400 > I've had lots of weird problems with vmware, esp. after a resume. The > problems range from vmware can send, but not receive, or it can receive, > but not send, or it thinks there is another host out there with the same > ip, or ... In contrast, I suspend and resume all the time and never have problems like this. On the other hand, I do have problems with TCP connections not hanging up properly (VMware's NAT keeps sending acks even though the connection is long gone) and have to manually hang things up sometimes. This is almost always my upas/fs pop connection. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 12:34:14 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 12:34:14 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14412 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 12:34:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14408 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 12:34:14 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 12:34:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 40B5919B44; Tue, 6 May 2003 23:34:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE0E8199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 23:33:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4a54ca79a5ee583c733c4aa1f6541a5e@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] VMware Ethernet From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <3EB88049.8090204@ameritech.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 23:33:20 -0400 > ip/ipconfig -g GATE ether /net/ether0 ip mask ... > said user is unable to make contact with the > network in any form. At first, I simply assumed it > was a user failure in {dns,cs}, but, writing raw data > to '#l0/data' also fails to manifest on the local > network, yet, does not generate any errors on the > local system. All I can surmise is that there is some > kind of disconnection between the VMware and > the underlying system. Not having used VMware, I always configure VMware by running ip/ipconfig to use DHCP. Is this with the network in NAT or bridged mode. Feel free to tell people with those problems to email 9fans, of course. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 12:46:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 12:46:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14832 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 12:46:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14828 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 12:46:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 12:46:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A26E519B45; Tue, 6 May 2003 23:46:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.181]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4C7E219B03 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 23:45:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-41-91.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.41.91 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2003 03:45:00 -0000 Message-ID: <3EB88F10.2000206@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: dbailey27@ameritech.net Subject: Re: [9fans] VMware Ethernet References: <4a54ca79a5ee583c733c4aa1f6541a5e@plan9.bell-labs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 23:44:00 -0500 > > >Feel free to tell people with >those problems to email 9fans, of course. > Right on. If I don't know the answer to someone's question that is the first thing I do. Unfortunately, in situations like these VMware problems, I think the reason these people havent mailed is because they are literally just stepping inside the world of Plan9 and are afraid of asking questions that would seem stupid to avid users. Like I said, I've been watching, but, noone has posted. Thats why I did. I wish this was a gap that could be bridged more eloquently, because, alot of potential users are turning away due to a VMware issue, not a Plan9 issue. Don From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 12:50:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 12:50:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14978 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 12:50:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14974 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 12:50:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 12:50:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F9A219B4C; Tue, 6 May 2003 23:50:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF43719B0F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 23:49:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <43322bde940034988285697c300aba79@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] VMware Ethernet From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <3EB88F10.2000206@ameritech.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 23:49:14 -0400 If they're worried about posting to 9fans perhaps they wouldn't mind mailing 9trouble, which is explicitly for installation problems, among other things. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 13:01:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 13:01:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15466 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 13:01:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15462 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 13:01:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 13:01:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A71E819B4F; Wed, 7 May 2003 00:01:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.179]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8825E19B19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 00:00:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-41-91.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.41.91 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2003 04:00:01 -0000 Message-ID: <3EB89294.8040906@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] VMware Ethernet References: <43322bde940034988285697c300aba79@plan9.bell-labs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 23:59:00 -0500 > > >If they're worried about posting to 9fans >perhaps they wouldn't mind mailing 9trouble, >which is explicitly for installation problems, >among other things. > I actually mention 9trouble, too. I just can't monitor it to see who actually posts (obviously). I guess it just boils down to a choice of fear versus determination to learn/get involved. Don > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 13:37:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 13:37:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17071 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 13:37:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17067 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 13:37:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 13:37:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 53A6E19B19; Wed, 7 May 2003 00:37:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [64.71.129.86]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8BBA219AFD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 00:36:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 89C9C66B24; Tue, 6 May 2003 21:36:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20030507043633.GX36080@cassie.foobarbaz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Subject: [9fans] struct problems Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 21:36:33 -0700 I've been working on 48-bit LBA support for ATA, and I've run into something peculiar. I decided to rewrite the identify array as a struct of bit fields for better readability. As it turns out, the struct is 16 bytes bigger than expected, which is causing all sorts of trouble with accessing the fields properly. I am pretty sure I copied all the fields correctly; the struct should be 512 bytes, but it's 528 bytes. Below is the struct definition for folks to look at. I am in the process of rooting out where the extra bytes are coming from, but if someone can provide some insight, it would save me some time. typedef struct Params { /*000*/ union { ushort config; ushort pktsz:2; /* packet command size */ ushort incomplete:1; ushort :2; ushort drq:2; /* DRQ type */ ushort removable:1; /* device is removable */ ushort type:5; /* device type */ ushort :2; ushort proto:1; /* command protocol */ }; /*001*/ ushort lcyl; /* logical cylinders */ ushort reserved2; /*003*/ ushort lhead; /* logical heads */ ushort obsolete4; ushort obsolete5; /*006*/ ushort lsec; /* logical sectors */ ushort reserved7; ushort reserved8; ushort retired9; /*010*/ uchar serial[20]; /* serial number */ ushort retired20; ushort retired21; ushort obsolete22; /*023*/ uchar firmware[8]; /* firmware revision */ /*027*/ uchar model[40]; /* model name */ /*047*/ ushort maxrwm:8; /* max. read/write multiple sectors */ ushort :8; ushort reserved48; /*049*/ union { ushort capabilities; ushort retired49:8; ushort dma:1; /* DMA supported */ ushort lba:1; /* LBA supported */ ushort noiordy:1; /* IORDY may be disabled */ ushort iordy:1; /* IORDY supported */ ushort softrst:1; /* needs soft reset when bsy */ ushort stdby:1; /* standby supported */ ushort queueing:1; /* queueing overlap supported */ ushort idma:1; /* interleaved DMA supported */ }; /*050*/ ushort stdbymin:1; ushort :13; ushort cap1:1; ushort cap0:1; ushort retired51; ushort retired52; /*053*/ ushort valid; /*054*/ ushort ccyl; /*055*/ ushort chead; /*056*/ ushort csec; /*057*/ ushort cap; ushort obsolete58; /*059*/ ushort mstc:8; /* number of sectors ready for transfer */ ushort mstvalid:1; /* multi-sector transfer enabled */ ushort :7; /*060-061*/ ushort lba0; /* LBA size */ ushort lba1; /* LBA size */ ushort obsolete62; /*063*/ ushort mwdma; /* multiword DMA mode */ /*064*/ ushort apio; /* advanced PIO mode */ /*065*/ ushort minmwdma; /* min. multiword DMA cycle time */ /*066*/ ushort recmwdma; /* rec. multiword DMA cycle time */ /*067*/ ushort minpio; /* min. PIO cycle w/o flow control */ /*068*/ ushort miniordy; /* min. PIO cycle with IORDY */ ushort reserved69; ushort reserved70; /*071*/ ushort pktbr; /* time from PACKET to bus release */ /*072*/ ushort svcbsy; /* time for SERVICE to !bsy */ ushort reserved73; ushort reserved74; /*075*/ ushort qdepth:5; /* max. queue depth */ ushort :11; ushort reserved76; ushort reserved77; ushort reserved78; ushort reserved79; /*080*/ ushort major; /* major version number */ /*081*/ ushort minor; /* minor version number */ /*082-084/085-087*/ struct { ushort smart:1; ushort security:1; ushort removable:1; ushort pwrmgmt:1; ushort pkt:1; ushort wcache:1; ushort lookahead:1; ushort relirq:1; ushort svcirq:1; ushort reset:1; ushort protected:1; ushort :1; ushort wbuf:1; ushort rbuf:1; ushort nop:1; ushort :1; ushort microcode:1; ushort queued:1; ushort cfa:1; ushort apm:1; ushort notify:1; ushort standby:1; ushort spinup:1; ushort :1; ushort maxsec:1; ushort autoacoustic:1; ushort addr48:1; ushort devconfov:1; ushort flush:1; ushort flush48:1; ushort support1:1; ushort support0:1; ushort smarterror:1; ushort smartselftest:1; ushort mserial:1; ushort mpassthrough:1; ushort :1; ushort logging:1; ushort :8; ushort supportext1:1; ushort supportext0:1; } supported, enabled; /*088*/ ushort udma; /* ultra DMA mode */ /*089*/ ushort erase; /* time for security erase */ /*090*/ ushort eerase; /* time for enhanced security erase */ /*091*/ ushort power; /* current advanced power management */ /*092*/ ushort mpwrev; /* master password revision */ /*093*/ ushort hwres; /* hardware config test results */ /*094*/ ushort acoustic; /* current automatic acoustic management */ ushort reserved95; ushort reserved96; ushort reserved97; ushort reserved98; ushort reserved99; /* 100-103 */ ushort lbaext0; /* 48-bit LBA size */ ushort lbaext1; /* 48-bit LBA size */ ushort lbaext2; /* 48-bit LBA size */ ushort lbaext3; /* 48-bit LBA size */ ushort reserved104[23]; /*127*/ ushort remstat; /* removable media status */ /*128*/ ushort secstat; /* security status */ ushort reserved129[31]; /*160*/ ushort cfapwr; /* CFA power mode */ ushort reserved161[14]; /*176*/ ushort mediaserial[30]; /* current media serial number */ ushort reserved206[49]; /*255*/ ushort chksum; } Params; -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 14:35:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 14:35:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19649 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 14:35:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19645 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 14:35:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 14:35:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1180319B36; Wed, 7 May 2003 01:35:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [64.71.129.86]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 47FD2199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 01:34:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 6A7B966B24; Tue, 6 May 2003 22:34:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems Message-ID: <20030507053411.GZ36080@cassie.foobarbaz.net> References: <20030507043633.GX36080@cassie.foobarbaz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030507043633.GX36080@cassie.foobarbaz.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 22:34:11 -0700 I forgot to add that my guess as to what is happening is due to alignment issues. On Tue, May 06, 2003 at 09:36:33PM -0700, Christopher Nielsen wrote: > I've been working on 48-bit LBA support for ATA, and > I've run into something peculiar. I decided to rewrite > the identify array as a struct of bit fields for better > readability. As it turns out, the struct is 16 bytes > bigger than expected, which is causing all sorts of > trouble with accessing the fields properly. I am pretty > sure I copied all the fields correctly; the struct > should be 512 bytes, but it's 528 bytes. Below is the > struct definition for folks to look at. I am in the > process of rooting out where the extra bytes are > coming from, but if someone can provide some insight, > it would save me some time. -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 14:38:11 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 14:38:11 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19759 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 14:38:11 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19755 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 14:38:11 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 14:38:11 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 67D7119B4B; Wed, 7 May 2003 01:37:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from 9fs.org (cotswold.demon.co.uk [194.222.75.186]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1100919AFD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 01:36:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9fs.org ([192.168.100.103]) by 9fs.org; Wed May 7 06:36:39 BST 2003 Received: from 192.168.100.111 ([192.168.100.111]) by 9fs.org; Wed May 7 06:36:39 BST 2003 From: "Nigel Roles" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: RE: [9fans] struct problems Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <20030507053411.GZ36080@cassie.foobarbaz.net> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 06:36:51 +0100 structs and unions are aligned on 4 byte boundaries. bit fields are never portable. are you sure they will work on any Plan 9 platform (not just x86)? > -----Original Message----- > From: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu [mailto:9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu]On Behalf > Of Christopher Nielsen > Sent: 07 May 2003 06:34 > To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems > > > I forgot to add that my guess as to what is happening > is due to alignment issues. > > On Tue, May 06, 2003 at 09:36:33PM -0700, Christopher Nielsen wrote: > > I've been working on 48-bit LBA support for ATA, and > > I've run into something peculiar. I decided to rewrite > > the identify array as a struct of bit fields for better > > readability. As it turns out, the struct is 16 bytes > > bigger than expected, which is causing all sorts of > > trouble with accessing the fields properly. I am pretty > > sure I copied all the fields correctly; the struct > > should be 512 bytes, but it's 528 bytes. Below is the > > struct definition for folks to look at. I am in the > > process of rooting out where the extra bytes are > > coming from, but if someone can provide some insight, > > it would save me some time. > > -- > Christopher Nielsen > "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary > safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 14:42:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 14:42:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19918 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 14:42:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19913 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 14:42:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 14:42:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3375D19B53; Wed, 7 May 2003 01:42:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [64.71.129.86]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F3F28199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 01:41:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2EAE266B24; Tue, 6 May 2003 22:41:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems Message-ID: <20030507054149.GA36080@cassie.foobarbaz.net> References: <20030507053411.GZ36080@cassie.foobarbaz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 22:41:49 -0700 Doh! I should know that bit fields aren't portable. No, I'm not sure; in fact, I'm pretty sure they won't work across platforms. I didn't think about that. I'll come up with a different method that _is_ portable. Thanks. On Wed, May 07, 2003 at 06:36:51AM +0100, Nigel Roles wrote: > structs and unions are aligned on 4 byte boundaries. > bit fields are never portable. are you sure they will > work on any Plan 9 platform (not just x86)? -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 15:34:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 15:34:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22420 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 15:34:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22416 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 15:34:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 15:34:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3D2E719B35; Wed, 7 May 2003 02:34:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.182]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 787C119995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 02:33:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-41-91.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.41.91 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2003 06:33:45 -0000 Message-ID: <3EB8B69D.5040107@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems References: <20030507043633.GX36080@cassie.foobarbaz.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 02:32:45 -0500 Structures are aligned to the underlying platform's specifications which may cause problems if you expect raw data to align to your C structure bit- for-bit: it won't happen. IIRC, this is the reason why plan9 code uses the convX2Y() functions, making sure data represented in a struct is represented properly by the underlying architecture. Some people go the B route and use uchar[] for every structure member, which causes more CPU cycles later when analyzing data. In my experience it's just better to parse the raw data into the specific structure using a conversion routine, possibly inlined. Bitfields will only augment this issue in your code and decrease portability. Don From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 16:38:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 16:38:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25254 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 16:38:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25250 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 16:38:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 16:38:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6188719B03; Wed, 7 May 2003 03:38:17 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 96BAE19AFD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 03:37:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2f4747b97a84bb5e0b1c9e1365c10cfc@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Sorry, i'm a novice From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <20030506205237.76067.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-zgugkoofckkmevfjdhsuwxxcre" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 09:37:51 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-zgugkoofckkmevfjdhsuwxxcre Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you're in the UAM you're pretty close to our site, at urjc in Madrid. Don't think twice and ask for any help you need, or visit us. We have a full network with a fossil (venti) file server and could be of help to setup something similar. The invitation for visiting urjc is also for any other 9fan that might be close to us too. --upas-zgugkoofckkmevfjdhsuwxxcre Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Tue May 6 22:53:36 MDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 888A019B3F; Tue, 6 May 2003 16:53:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from web10302.mail.yahoo.com (web10302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.80]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2275F19B3C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 May 2003 16:52:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <20030506205237.76067.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.37.146.6] by web10302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 06 May 2003 22:52:37 CEST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Oscar=20Cuadrado?= To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] Sorry, i'm a novice Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 22:52:37 +0200 (CEST) Hi, 9fans: I met plan 9 in a talk in the UAM in Madrid (Spain) about security in Plan 9 and i was 'flashed' when Russ Cox introduced some concepts of this OS. So here i am, trying to initiate me in Plan 9. My request is for some instructions about installation, first steps, plan9 applications programming and similars... I expect you to have any time to spend with a novice, and thanks very much to all. Grettings. Square. P.D.: i've downloaded some manuals but i prefer the first-hand information ;) ___________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Nueva versión GRATIS Super Webcam, voz, caritas animadas, y más... http://messenger.yahoo.es --upas-zgugkoofckkmevfjdhsuwxxcre-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 17:58:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 17:58:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28546 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 17:58:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28542 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 17:58:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 17:58:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7FAC519B54; Wed, 7 May 2003 04:58:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4ED1219B56 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 04:57:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19DKWv-0002oW-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 07 May 2003 09:44:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Jeff Sickel Message-ID: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK References: , Subject: Re: [9fans] Globus attempt (until new software is available) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 08:43:44 GMT ron minnich wrote: > Andrey is right. Globus is a band-aid for all the stuff you can't do on > Unix that Plan 9 does already. Putting Globus on Plan 9 is bringing coals > to newcastle, ice to eskimos, oil to the middle east. > Well, anyway, don't do it. > ron Thanks for all the input. Now I just have to figure out how to get a sign-off on a project to use Plan 9 instead of Globus. jas From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 17:59:03 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 17:59:03 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28569 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 17:59:03 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28565 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 17:59:03 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 17:59:03 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6706119B55; Wed, 7 May 2003 04:58:30 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E7C1119B57 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 04:57:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19DKWv-0002oc-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 07 May 2003 09:44:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EB87BDC.30305@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <3EB37781.1030903@null.net>, <1092ecb1fccdb5af51c89a1854558c4f@vitanuova.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 08:43:56 GMT rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > what kinds of exceptional conditions are you thinking about here? What would be considered "problems in completing the assignment". Typically, running out of some system resource, or a already created data structure is found to have an "impossible" value in some field, etc. The idea is that things that are expected to occur quite a lot should be dealt with in the main logic, since not taking them into account would be an essential lack of function, but that things that should rarely occur and are not of the same kind as expected results should be treated as exceptions. Looking at it another way, if it seems that a situation should be handled within an ongoing loop then it's not a candidate for an exception, but if it seems that the loop needs to be aborted because it would be pointless to continue in the same vein, then it should be an exception. Yet another take on the same thing: If local tactics are expected then it's not a candidate for an exception, but if a global strategy for recovery from the condition is expected, then it's an exception. In practice, the distinction is usually clear. One could debate whether getc() returning EOF with ferror() returning false should be handled as an exception rather than as an exceptional value for the data, but I'm inclined to think that it should, after consideration of the problems that having in-band signals has caused. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 18:17:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 18:17:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29366 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 18:17:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29362 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 18:17:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 18:17:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ABDE819B5B; Wed, 7 May 2003 05:17:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 57D1619B59 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 05:17:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] VMware Ethernet From: paurea@plan9.escet.urjc.es In-Reply-To: <4a54ca79a5ee583c733c4aa1f6541a5e@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 11:16:59 +0200 > I always configure VMware by running > > ip/ipconfig > > to use DHCP. I use it without DHCP on linux without problems. The only thing I have found is that it takes a long time to boot. 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------=_NextPart_37JJ8HEE8_A3AB48542L53F4.-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 18:22:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 18:22:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29544 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 18:22:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29540 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 18:22:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 18:22:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C574D19B5F; Wed, 7 May 2003 05:22:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 95517199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 05:21:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1df536ac5077b541b77002980016a9f4@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] VMware Ethernet From: paurea@plan9.escet.urjc.es In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 11:21:24 +0200 > I use it without DHCP on linux without problems. The only thing I have > found is that it takes a long time to boot. > Well this is not entirely true. When the net is collapsed of traffic, my connections hang, because the eth card isn't able to cope with it, probably because it has to work in promiscuous mode in order to have two ethernet addresses (not sure about this) and gets too many interrupts. Anyway, with normal traffic, I run without problems. Gorka From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 18:45:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 18:45:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30397 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 18:45:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30393 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 18:45:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 18:45:37 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 45DF319B67; Wed, 7 May 2003 05:45:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr9.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B809E19B5A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 05:44:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr9.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id PEU16637; Wed, 7 May 2003 05:44:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (ratthing-b40d.strakt.com [62.119.131.123]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFO41547; Wed, 7 May 2003 05:44:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000701c3147c$c4781490$7b83773e@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3EA6EADB.16078459@null.net>, <3EAEE56B.62D83D8C@null.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 06:21:23 +0200 From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" > It's much, much easier when the library functions throw > exceptions. That way the application can handle them any > way it wants (or allow default handling to occur, normally > a fatal error), and the same utility library can be used > unchanged with any application. hmm, exceptions can be a nightmare, if they turn out to be a 'nasty set of nested non local gotos' -- ouch. but if they're done 'right', then ok ... -- The Beretta 92FS -- don't leave home without it ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 18:45:58 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 18:45:58 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30405 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 18:45:58 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30401 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 18:45:57 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 18:45:57 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2905C19B50; Wed, 7 May 2003 05:45:31 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr7.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 192C819B5C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 05:44:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr7.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id OVG14514; Wed, 7 May 2003 05:44:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (ratthing-b40d.strakt.com [62.119.131.123]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFO41549; Wed, 7 May 2003 05:44:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000801c3147c$c5031680$7b83773e@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <7ae69a86431964c1aa5e77e8d3574406@9fs.org> <6641ba56fe369dcba9498b55574627c9@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk> <20030430111055.I26796@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] venti arenas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 06:26:16 +0200 From: "Lucio De Re" > That doesn't make a great deal of sense. If it is going to be limited > to an extra megabyte, why not keep it the exact size and throw the > remainder away? What does the extra megabyte buy you? yup: Always go for overkill -- Lou Reed -- The Beretta 92FS -- don't leave home without it ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 18:46:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 18:46:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30438 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 18:46:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30434 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 18:46:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 18:46:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EDF2F19B6D; Wed, 7 May 2003 05:45:44 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr7.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 20F8F19B62 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 05:44:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr7.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id OVG14520; Wed, 7 May 2003 05:44:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (ratthing-b40d.strakt.com [62.119.131.123]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFO41558; Wed, 7 May 2003 05:44:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000b01c3147c$c6b9c730$7b83773e@SOMA> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 06:44:27 +0200 > Doug is thinking ahead to C1x. i hope the lessons of python style exception handling have been learned. -- The Beretta 92FS -- don't leave home without it ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 18:47:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 18:47:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30471 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 18:47:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30467 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 18:47:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 18:47:37 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 76E5D19B62; Wed, 7 May 2003 05:45:59 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr8.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4062C19B62 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 05:44:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr8.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id AKV13483; Wed, 7 May 2003 05:44:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (ratthing-b40d.strakt.com [62.119.131.123]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFO41561; Wed, 7 May 2003 05:44:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000c01c3147c$c7665ae0$7b83773e@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030501160047.7231.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 06:53:46 +0200 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Schwartz" > Because I think the main problem C has is buffer overruns, and I believe > that the main cause of that is that people use C arrays, pointers, > which don't encode the bounds, along with standard library routines that > discourage doing anything else. nope, use a better tool; limbo -- leave 'C' alone. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 19:05:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 19:05:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30950 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 19:05:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30946 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 19:05:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 19:05:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9E6E019B61; Wed, 7 May 2003 06:05:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.182]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3027919AED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 06:04:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-41-91.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.41.91 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2003 10:04:52 -0000 Message-ID: <3EB8E817.4090609@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere References: <20030501160047.7231.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> <000c01c3147c$c7665ae0$7b83773e@SOMA> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 06:03:51 -0500 > > >>Because I think the main problem C has is buffer overruns, and I believe >>that the main cause of that is that people use C arrays, pointers, >>which don't encode the bounds, along with standard library routines that >>discourage doing anything else >> The beauty of C is its ability to allow the programmer a very eloquent sense of flexibility with the underlying system. "Buffer overruns" are just the manifestation of bad programming, not a weakness in the language, itself. Every language has its issues, but, that's where experience and a deep understanding of how a language works comes in handy :-) Don't blame C, blame the coder. Exceptions in a C environment is basically admitting that you don't understand enough about C to promote elegant and simple solutions to complex problems in that language. Putting the blame on C, itself, is simplistic and, frankly, arrogant. Don From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 19:06:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 19:06:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30997 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 19:06:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30993 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 19:06:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 19:06:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D34619B70; Wed, 7 May 2003 06:06:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 7DF7719AED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 06:05:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 4775 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 10:05:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO proweb.co.uk) (192.168.1.100) by juice.thebigchoice.com with SMTP; 7 May 2003 10:05:09 -0000 Message-ID: <3EB8DA55.5060502@proweb.co.uk> From: matt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Sorry, i'm a novice References: <20030506205237.76067.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20030506205237.76067.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 11:05:09 +0100 Welcome Oscar, I'm sure I speak on behalf of everyone here when I say I hope you come to get something out of plan9. My suggestion would be write some code, particularly exercising the networking aspects and user level file systems. In doing so you should come across most of plan9 concepts, read quite a bit of it's manual pages and source code, use the tools such as the plumber and acme and maybe sam, get frustrated and, hopefully, finish elated. buena suerte matt From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 19:41:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 19:41:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31925 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 19:41:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31921 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 19:41:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 19:41:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1020219B5D; Wed, 7 May 2003 06:41:17 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BC16019B59 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 06:40:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h47AeFNF006373 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 12:40:17 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h47AeD0a006372 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 7 May 2003 12:40:13 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere Message-ID: <20030507124006.D26796@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030501160047.7231.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> <000c01c3147c$c7665ae0$7b83773e@SOMA> <3EB8E817.4090609@ameritech.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <3EB8E817.4090609@ameritech.net>; from northern snowfall on Wed, May 07, 2003 at 06:03:51AM -0500 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 12:40:09 +0200 On Wed, May 07, 2003 at 06:03:51AM -0500, northern snowfall wrote: > Exceptions in a C environment is basically admitting that you > don't understand enough about C to promote elegant and simple > solutions to complex problems in that language. Putting the > blame on C, itself, is simplistic and, frankly, arrogant. I don't go along with that. Consider the conventional linear search of an array: int a[100]; int x, v; ... x = 0; while (x < 100 && a[x] != v) { ++x; } (or whatever version you prefer). At the end, you always have to determine whether you found the desired element or exceeded the array bounds. Now, if exceeding the array bounds could be treated as an exception (imagine a clever CPU with array bounds checking in hardware delivering a segment violation error), you could write: x = 0; while (a[x] != v) { ++x; } and at the end you'd know that the element was found, because the exception wasn't triggered. Better, you'd not even reach the end of the loop if the element wasn't found. This particular problem has bugged me for decades :-) I go along with Doug that exception handling can hide the extremely uninteresting code involved in dealing with rare or "off band" conditions. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 20:05:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 20:05:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32432 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 20:05:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32428 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 20:05:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 20:05:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 32F8319B66; Wed, 7 May 2003 07:05:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from unix127.hosting-network.com (unknown [66.186.208.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3EAE019B5A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 07:04:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 55834 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 11:05:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cc77109e) (203.51.64.118) by 66.186.208.13 with SMTP; 7 May 2003 11:05:53 -0000 X-Comments: BlackMail headers - Mail to abuse@featureprice.com to report spam. X-Authenticated-Connect: 203.51.64.118 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 07:05:53(EDT) on May 07, 2003 X-HELO-From: cc77109e X-Mail-From: X-Sender-IP-Address: 203.51.64.118 Message-ID: <006301c31488$b478f6c0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030507043633.GX36080@cassie.foobarbaz.net> <3EB8B69D.5040107@ameritech.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 21:05:06 +1000 what other justification for #pragma hjdicks can you think of? ----- Original Message ----- From: "northern snowfall" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 5:32 PM Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems > Structures are aligned to the underlying platform's > specifications which may cause problems if you From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 21:07:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 21:07:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1379 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 21:07:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1375 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 21:07:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 21:07:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8D36F19B59; Wed, 7 May 2003 08:07:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.179]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 903E619AFD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 08:06:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-41-91.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.41.91 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2003 12:06:38 -0000 Message-ID: <3EB9049D.50500@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere References: <20030501160047.7231.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> <000c01c3147c$c7665ae0$7b83773e@SOMA> <3EB8E817.4090609@ameritech.net> <20030507124006.D26796@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 08:05:33 -0500 > > > int a[100]; > int x, v; > > ... > > x = 0; > while (x < 100 && a[x] != v) { > ++x; > } > Ok, this seems pretty silly to me, because, it just breaks down to bad coding style. #include #include enum { true, false, }; // returns true if value IS found in every slot // returns false if value is NOT found in every slot int gotvalue/*?*/(int * a, uint len, int val) { uint xa; for(ua = 0; ua < len; ua++) { if(a[ua] != val) return false; } return true; } void main(int argc, char * argv[]) { int a[100]; // somehow "a" gets filled with values if(gotvalue(&a[0], sizeof(a), 0xdeadca75) == true) print("yay, we're true! \n"); else print("ick. \n"); exits(0); } From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 21:08:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 21:08:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1635 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 21:08:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1631 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 21:08:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 21:08:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 57ED519AC7; Wed, 7 May 2003 08:08:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.182]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id AEAB619B5A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 08:07:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-41-91.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.41.91 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2003 12:07:21 -0000 Message-ID: <3EB904CC.9000303@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems References: <20030507043633.GX36080@cassie.foobarbaz.net> <3EB8B69D.5040107@ameritech.net> <006301c31488$b478f6c0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 08:06:20 -0500 Bruce Ellis wrote: >what other justification for #pragma hjdicks >can you think of? > Extreme intoxication? > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 21:26:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 21:26:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2357 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 21:26:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2353 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 21:26:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 21:26:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1104019B6C; Wed, 7 May 2003 08:26:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 66C9119B6A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 08:25:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h47CPENF006588 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 14:25:15 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h47CPDOQ006587 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 7 May 2003 14:25:13 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere Message-ID: <20030507142511.F26796@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030501160047.7231.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> <000c01c3147c$c7665ae0$7b83773e@SOMA> <3EB8E817.4090609@ameritech.net> <20030507124006.D26796@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <3EB9049D.50500@ameritech.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <3EB9049D.50500@ameritech.net>; from northern snowfall on Wed, May 07, 2003 at 08:05:33AM -0500 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 14:25:12 +0200 On Wed, May 07, 2003 at 08:05:33AM -0500, northern snowfall wrote: > > > Ok, this seems pretty silly to me, because, it just > breaks down to bad coding style. > Not really. Mostly, one wants the location where the item was found (x, in my example) which your function discards. Sometimes, one may want to take action if the item is not found. Was it APL that returned -1 on not found? Doesn't help much if I'm not interested, as I still have to check the validity of the return value. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 21:36:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 21:36:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2632 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 21:36:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2628 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 21:36:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 21:36:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A29219B71; Wed, 7 May 2003 08:36:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ns.dbSystems.com (ns.dbSystems.com [67.65.88.161]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 45BEC19B68 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 08:35:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kds (gw.eot.dbSystems.com [67.65.88.165]) by ns.dbSystems.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with SMTP id h47C1nG09347 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 07:01:50 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from gdb@dbSystems.com) Message-ID: <01f601c31494$ebe8e550$644cb2cc@kds> From: "David Butler" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030501160047.7231.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> <000c01c3147c$c7665ae0$7b83773e@SOMA> <3EB8E817.4090609@ameritech.net> <20030507124006.D26796@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <3EB9049D.50500@ameritech.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 07:33:05 -0500 Okay, that seems *really* silly to me! Why make a subroutine call? Why re-test at the end what you know? If it can be remembered that C is really a portable assembly language, you will program in a "structured" assembly style. Use the language: int a[100]; int x, v; for (x = sizeof(a) / sizeof(a[0]); x >= 0; x--) { if (a[x] == v) { goto foundv; } } damn; foundv: cool; :) Goto is not bad, programmers that misuse goto are bad. David ----- Original Message ----- From: "northern snowfall" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 8:05 AM Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere > > > > > > int a[100]; > > int x, v; > > > > ... > > > > x = 0; > > while (x < 100 && a[x] != v) { > > ++x; > > } > > > Ok, this seems pretty silly to me, because, it just > breaks down to bad coding style. > > #include > #include > > enum { > true, > false, > }; > > // returns true if value IS found in every slot > // returns false if value is NOT found in every slot > int > gotvalue/*?*/(int * a, uint len, int val) > { > uint xa; > > for(ua = 0; ua < len; ua++) { > if(a[ua] != val) > return false; > } > return true; > } > > void > main(int argc, char * argv[]) > { > int a[100]; > > // somehow "a" gets filled with values > > if(gotvalue(&a[0], sizeof(a), 0xdeadca75) == true) > print("yay, we're true! \n"); > else > print("ick. \n"); > > exits(0); > } > > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 21:37:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 21:37:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2650 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 21:37:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2646 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 21:37:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 21:37:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CB2D619B76; Wed, 7 May 2003 08:36:30 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.182]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3030919B0F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 08:35:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-41-91.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.41.91 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2003 12:35:27 -0000 Message-ID: <3EB90B63.30401@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere References: <20030501160047.7231.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> <000c01c3147c$c7665ae0$7b83773e@SOMA> <3EB8E817.4090609@ameritech.net> <20030507124006.D26796@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <3EB9049D.50500@ameritech.net> <20030507142511.F26796@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 08:34:27 -0500 > > >Not really. Mostly, one wants the location where the item was found >(x, in my example) which your function discards. Sometimes, one may >want to take action if the item is not found. > I saw this comin' as soon as I hit the send button. Oh well. Simply add in functionality to determine the slot of the first false test. #include #include enum { true, false, }; // returns true if all slots EQUATE to val // returns false if all slots do NOT equate to val // side effects: equates *pos to the first slot that tests false int gotvalue/*?*/(int * a, uint len, int val, uint * pos) { uint ua; for(ua = 0; ua < len; ua++) { if(a[ua] != val) { *pos = ua; return false; } } return true; } int main(int argc, char * argv[]) { int a[100]; uint pos; // somehow "a" gets filled with values if(gotvalue(&a[0], sizeof(a), 0xdeadca75, &pos) == true) print("yay, we're true! \ n"); else print("negate at slot %ud \n", pos); exits(0); } From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 21:42:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 21:42:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2728 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 21:42:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2724 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 21:42:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 21:42:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2960F19B58; Wed, 7 May 2003 08:42:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 7735D19B0F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 08:41:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-41-91.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.41.91 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2003 12:41:21 -0000 Message-ID: <3EB90CC5.7010703@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere References: <20030501160047.7231.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> <000c01c3147c$c7665ae0$7b83773e@SOMA> <3EB8E817.4090609@ameritech.net> <20030507124006.D26796@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <3EB9049D.50500@ameritech.net> <01f601c31494$ebe8e550$644cb2cc@kds> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 08:40:21 -0500 > > >Okay, that seems *really* silly to me! > hehe Well, the reason why I make it a seperate function is because: 1) unless specified otherwise we have to assume that the function will be used multiple times. 2) if used multiple times we're actually minimizing instructures in the code segment by using a seperate function 3) modular reusable code is easy to read, use, audit, test, retest, hack, recode, etc 4) Because I rule But, sure, your way works well, too :) You're right about goto, too. Lots of people are afraid of goto, but, as long as its used wisely, it ain't nothin' but a jump. It all breaks down to the right choice for the given situation. Don From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 21:48:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 21:48:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2877 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 21:48:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2873 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 21:48:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 21:48:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4B6F819B60; Wed, 7 May 2003 08:48:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from unix127.hosting-network.com (unknown [66.186.208.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C238519B0F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 08:47:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 49807 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 12:48:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cc77109e) (203.51.64.118) by 66.186.208.13 with SMTP; 7 May 2003 12:48:31 -0000 X-Comments: BlackMail headers - Mail to abuse@featureprice.com to report spam. X-Authenticated-Connect: 203.51.64.118 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 08:48:31(EDT) on May 07, 2003 X-HELO-From: cc77109e X-Mail-From: X-Sender-IP-Address: 203.51.64.118 Message-ID: <000f01c31497$0a53d7f0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030507043633.GX36080@cassie.foobarbaz.net> <3EB8B69D.5040107@ameritech.net> <006301c31488$b478f6c0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> <3EB904CC.9000303@ameritech.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 22:47:40 +1000 pragmatism and a silly discussion over dinner. hj were dicks for assuming that they could lay out structs in an architecture independant way. we had to live with it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "northern snowfall" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 11:06 PM Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems > Bruce Ellis wrote: > > >what other justification for #pragma hjdicks > >can you think of? > > > Extreme intoxication? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 21:52:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 21:52:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2976 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 21:52:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2972 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 21:52:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 21:52:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D15E619B64; Wed, 7 May 2003 08:52:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp807.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp807.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.186]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4520319B0F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 08:51:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-41-91.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.41.91 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2003 12:51:26 -0000 Message-ID: <3EB90F22.5070905@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems References: <20030507043633.GX36080@cassie.foobarbaz.net> <3EB8B69D.5040107@ameritech.net> <006301c31488$b478f6c0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> <3EB904CC.9000303@ameritech.net> <000f01c31497$0a53d7f0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 08:50:26 -0500 Bruce Ellis wrote: >pragmatism and a silly discussion over dinner. >hj were dicks for assuming that they could >lay out structs in an architecture independant way. >we had to live with it. > Hey, I never said I *liked* the idea... :) but, thats how it is... > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 21:58:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 21:58:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3145 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 21:58:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3141 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 21:58:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 21:58:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 48B0619B79; Wed, 7 May 2003 08:58:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.180]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A4A1819B77 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 08:57:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-41-91.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.41.91 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2003 12:57:46 -0000 Message-ID: <3EB9109E.3020602@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere References: <20030501160047.7231.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> <000c01c3147c$c7665ae0$7b83773e@SOMA> <3EB8E817.4090609@ameritech.net> <20030507124006.D26796@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <3EB9049D.50500@ameritech.net> <20030507142511.F26796@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <3EB90B63.30401@ameritech.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 08:56:46 -0500 > if(gotvalue(&a[0], sizeof(a), 0xdeadca75, &pos) == true) Ack! Apparently I don't rule! "sizeof(a)" should be "sizeof(a) / sizeof(int)" Don't ask me why I missed that. Um. Someone else typed the email for me. Thats it. Thanks Butler Don From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 23:31:09 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 23:31:09 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4915 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 23:31:08 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4911 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 23:31:08 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 23:31:08 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 51095199E3; Wed, 7 May 2003 10:30:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 74EAA19B5A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 10:29:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h47EW89p001417 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 08:32:08 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h47EW8fS001413 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 08:32:08 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Sorry, i'm a novice In-Reply-To: <20030507024814.GA17269@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 08:32:08 -0600 (MDT) I do the same thing -- I boot a vmware cpu/auth/kfs server under host-only network, then on the same machine I forward tcp ports 567 and 17013 to the ip address of the vmware image and give accounts to my friends to play around with. The speed is quite reasonable and the machine (a 2ghz PIII) rarely feels bogged down (stupid stock redhat kernel renices vmware to -10, so my music stops playing whenever I compile anything, but I switch it back to 0)... I also never use the vmware window -- I don't like how it handles the mouse -- so I just start drawterm, even if I'm on the same machine... Never had problems with the network in vmware... andrey On Tue, 6 May 2003, Andrew wrote: > One other thing I do a lot is use the drawterm program. I dont even > know if its supported anymore, and its not a real plan9 terminal, but > you can connect to plan9 cpu server and play around a bit, its basically > like a terminal you ran 'cpu' in then ran rio. My network has finally > gotten setup (ie yesterday) to the point that im mostly comfortable > giving out free accounts just for fun. So if you want to go that route, > anyone is certainly welcome to an account. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 23:40:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 23:40:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5040 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 23:40:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5036 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 23:40:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 23:40:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C54F119B80; Wed, 7 May 2003 10:40:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr9.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DCF9F19B7B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 10:39:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr9.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id PEU51037; Wed, 7 May 2003 10:36:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (ratthing-b40d.strakt.com [62.119.131.123]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFO86300; Wed, 7 May 2003 10:36:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <006601c314a5$978d11f0$7b83773e@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030501160047.7231.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> <000c01c3147c$c7665ae0$7b83773e@SOMA> <3EB8E817.4090609@ameritech.net> <20030507124006.D26796@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 16:33:13 +0200 #define nels(x) (sizeof(x) / sizeof (x[0])) for (p = m; p < &p[nels(m)]; p++) printf("duh\n"); From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 23:42:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 23:42:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5077 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 23:42:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5073 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 23:42:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 23:42:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4F86119B8C; Wed, 7 May 2003 10:42:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C1C2E19B85 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 10:41:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h47EfNqt023715 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 08:41:23 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h47EfLIG029730 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 08:41:21 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Globus attempt (until new software is available) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 08:39:45 -0600 (MDT) On Wed, 7 May 2003, Jeff Sickel wrote: > Now I just have to figure out how to get a sign-off on a project to use > Plan 9 instead of Globus. That's going to be fun. But: Plan 9 + Globus ::= Depths of Hell Unix + Globus ::= Hell Plan ::= ~Hell ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 23:44:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 23:44:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5110 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 23:44:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5106 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 23:44:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 23:44:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F1A8019B81; Wed, 7 May 2003 10:44:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0485D19B5A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 10:43:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h47EhMfD008632 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 08:43:22 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h47EhMIG029801 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 08:43:22 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] VMware Ethernet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 08:41:46 -0600 (MDT) On Wed, 7 May 2003 paurea@plan9.escet.urjc.es wrote: > > I always configure VMware by running > > > > ip/ipconfig > > > > to use DHCP. Just last night I had a "locked up" vmware network interface, cured by rebooting the vmware image. Sends worked, some receives worked (ARP), but point-to-point receive traffic was getting dropped on the floor. Russ, is your vmware on laptop or desktop? My problems occur when I suspend vmware and close the lid, putting the laptop into sleep mode. There could be something Redhat-ish going on at that point. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 23:45:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 23:45:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5124 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 23:45:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5120 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 23:45:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 23:45:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AD8AA19B86; Wed, 7 May 2003 10:44:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4595219B5A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 10:43:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1e60225df5d323bb940b32776c4c9ab0@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <3EB8E817.4090609@ameritech.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 10:43:32 -0400 > Don't blame C, blame the coder. Love the sin, hate the sinner? [lots of thread snipped] You're all nuts. But at least use nelem(a) in place of sizeof(a)/sizeof(int). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 23:49:10 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 23:49:10 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5205 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 23:49:10 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5201 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 23:49:09 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 23:49:09 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 40D5819B8F; Wed, 7 May 2003 10:48:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.181]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4C4B319B5A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 10:47:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-41-91.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.41.91 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2003 14:47:45 -0000 Message-ID: <3EB92A64.1070508@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Globus attempt (until new software is available) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 10:46:44 -0500 > > >Plan 9 + Globus ::= Depths of Hell >Unix + Globus ::= Hell > >Plan ::= ~Hell > heheh > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 23:50:03 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 23:50:03 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5244 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 23:50:03 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5240 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 23:50:03 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 23:50:03 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3288019B97; Wed, 7 May 2003 10:49:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.182]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0A29919B94 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 10:48:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-41-91.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.41.91 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2003 14:48:55 -0000 Message-ID: <3EB92AAA.8050202@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere References: <1e60225df5d323bb940b32776c4c9ab0@plan9.bell-labs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 10:47:54 -0500 > > >You're all nuts. > I call cashews From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 23:54:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 23:54:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5366 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 23:54:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5362 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 23:54:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 23:54:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C648B19B8D; Wed, 7 May 2003 10:54:18 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from edoras.nas.com (edoras.nas.com [206.63.100.8]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 48E1619B0F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 10:53:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from castor (unknown [164.116.190.70]) by edoras.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CDF0EBB98 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 07:53:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jdj by castor with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19DQIG-0008Ga-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 07 May 2003 07:53:16 -0700 From: Jack Johnson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere Message-ID: <20030507145315.GB28928@castor> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <1e60225df5d323bb940b32776c4c9ab0@plan9.bell-labs.com> <3EB92AAA.8050202@ameritech.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3EB92AAA.8050202@ameritech.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 07:53:15 -0700 On Wed, May 07, 2003 at 10:47:54AM -0500, northern snowfall wrote: > >You're all nuts. > I call cashews Is that a long-distance call? -Jack From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 23:55:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 23:55:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5379 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 23:55:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5375 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 23:55:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 23:55:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E9BEA19B72; Wed, 7 May 2003 10:55:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D32B19B91 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 10:54:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] VMware Ethernet From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 10:54:46 -0400 I use VMware on both my desktop and my laptop, though of course I don't suspend the desktop. I do suspend VMware and then put the laptop into sleep mode, but I'm using Windows XP, so it could be that you're running into a Linux-specific suspend/resume problem. You might try VMware 4 and see if it fixes your problem. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 7 23:56:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 7 23:56:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5446 invoked by uid 1020); 7 May 2003 23:56:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5442 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 23:56:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 May 2003 23:56:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4F0F519B99; Wed, 7 May 2003 10:55:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DCF3219B72 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 10:54:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h47Eul9p001516 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 08:56:47 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h47Eulah001512 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 08:56:47 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Globus attempt (until new software is available) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 08:56:47 -0600 (MDT) On Wed, 7 May 2003, Jeff Sickel wrote: > Now I just have to figure out how to get a sign-off on a project to use > Plan 9 instead of Globus. > that's the really tricky part... you'll be hitting your head against several walls, listed here in no particular order (this list does not attempt to be comprehensive): - why use plan9 when linux just works? - no matter how hard globus is to set up, that's what everybody uses - you can't expect everybody to just turn around and start using plan9 - people are afraid to change - sure plan9 has all these features, but it's new and untested - the license sucks - all the research is in globus this is my personal experience, if yours is different i'd be most delighted! andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 00:04:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 00:04:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5597 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 00:04:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5592 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 00:04:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 00:04:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2999A19B9F; Wed, 7 May 2003 11:04:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7F4E619B6B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 11:03:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <3EB87BDC.30305@null.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 16:06:33 +0100 > > what kinds of exceptional conditions are you thinking about here? > > What would be considered "problems in completing the assignment". > Typically, running out of some system resource, or a already > created data structure is found to have an "impossible" value in > some field, etc. i think that sounds completely reasonable, and, despite rob's comments, is de facto the case in many places in plan 9 (if you try to use a nil data structure, divide by zero, etc). IMHO there's probably a good case for extending this kind of exception raising to other errors where most programs will be unable to recover, the classic example being out-of-memory errors. > The idea is that things that are expected to > occur quite a lot should be dealt with in the main logic, since > not taking them into account would be an essential lack of > function, but that things that should rarely occur and are not > of the same kind as expected results should be treated as > exceptions. with this, however, i have to disagree. i believe an exception should represent a genuinely exceptional condition, i.e. something which one would not normally expect to happen during the usual execution of the program. if something occurs rarely, it's not necessarily exceptional in any way. > One could debate whether getc() returning EOF with ferror() returning > false should be handled as an exception rather than as an exceptional > value for the data, but I'm inclined to think that it should, after > consideration of the problems that having in-band signals has caused. this is a good example. encountering the end of a file is in no way an exceptional condition. in fact, for most programs, this condition occurring is a pre-requisite for correct operation of the program! using exceptions for this kind of thing makes the code harder to read, which is a cardinal sin. in a normal program, i should never have to deal with exceptions at all. (BTW, getc doesn't use in-band signalling, and even if it did, tuples are a much cleaner solution than exceptions, IMHO). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 00:10:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 00:10:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5723 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 00:10:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5719 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 00:10:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 00:10:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EC06C19BA5; Wed, 7 May 2003 11:10:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A8BFF19B92 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 11:09:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-41-91.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.41.91 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2003 15:09:12 -0000 Message-ID: <3EB92F6C.7050702@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere References: <1e60225df5d323bb940b32776c4c9ab0@plan9.bell-labs.com> <3EB92AAA.8050202@ameritech.net> <20030507145315.GB28928@castor> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 11:08:12 -0500 > > >Is that a long-distance call? > Not sure yet... ndb is still attempting to translate the dial("tcp!cashews!wtf", nil, nil, nil) call. I'll let you know when it connects. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 00:13:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 00:13:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5780 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 00:13:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5776 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 00:13:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 00:13:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D434219BA3; Wed, 7 May 2003 11:13:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 643C119BA7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 11:12:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h47EHFa9011146 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 10:17:16 -0400 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: C (Was: [9fans] same functions everywhere) In-Reply-To: <3EB8E817.4090609@ameritech.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 10:17:15 -0400 (EDT) > "Buffer overruns" are just the manifestation of bad programming, > not a weakness in the language, itself. Every language has its Well, yes, but even the most seasoned programmers *can* make mistakes. I believe the issue at hand is that having this check (and others) a part of the language permits quick bug discovery and as a result faster development cycles, in addition to safer code. Modifying C to add run-time functionality not specified by the programmer seems like a step away from the original intent of the language. IMHO it should be left as a portable assembly language. I view C as a solid base for developing new languages as it's devilishly fun to write. Limbo is a wonderful example of how extending the core of C for something new can be fruitful. While I've not read it, I'm told the commentary on the c99 standard is about 1k pages long. I belive this qualifies as sufficiently bloated. Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 00:14:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 00:14:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5793 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 00:14:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5789 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 00:14:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 00:14:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3DDC119BA7; Wed, 7 May 2003 11:14:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A4C419B92 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 11:13:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5cb5f6df253349c9c1a419819cd76fb5@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Fco.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] redirfs updated on sources Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 17:10:04 +0200 Hi, after using redirfs for some time and fixing some bugs I found (the hard way), I've just copied to /n/sources/nemo the last version of redirfs(4) (manual page included). I use it like this (to switch to different file servers and to failover if suffering network problems): [user processes] <-> [redirfs] <-> both [kfs] and [file server] The idea is that I boot from kfs, setting a redir variable in plan9.ini. When termrc notices the variable, it starts redirfs to sit between the kfs and the user; termrc also lets redirfs know that our file server machine also has those files and that they are our preferred ones. This means that we start using the files from the file server as we do when we boot off the network. However, if the network fails (or we disconnect), redirfs fails over to the kfs. We can later ask it to start using the file server again. Instead of redirecting / (as we did before), we now redirect /386 /acme /adm /cron /lib /rc /sys /usr and /dist. This is to avoid redirections on /mail, which has DMEXCL files that should not be kept open for too long. This is the part of termrc that performs the redirection: # redirs is set to (386 acme adm cron lib rc sys usr dist) # in some other place if ( ~ $redir yes && test -x /boot/redirfs ) { # setup redirections to mount aquamar echo 'redirecting ' /^$redirs auth/secstore -G factotum | read -m >/mnt/factotum/ctl for (dir in $redirs){ # start redirector (it uses the local kfs by now) # tell about the file server # set it as the preferred one # and start using it /boot/redirfs -c -s $dir^fs -m /$dir /$dir echo 9fs $dir^fs!aquamar aquamar /$dir >> /srv/$dir^fs.cmd echo score $dir^fs!aquamar 0 >> /srv/$dir^fs.cmd echo Set >> /srv/$dir^fs.cmd } # these file trees are special for us import -c aquamar /mail/box bind -c /n/kfs/sys/log /sys/log 9fs once } If any of you wants to use this thing, I'd be happy to help. BTW, I'm experimenting with another boot method in boot(8) to automate the start of redirfs, so that if you say local tcp as your boot method (both things), a redirector is started to use any of both servers. The aim is to get rid of the bunch of termrc that I pasted above. Any comment/critic is welcome. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 00:34:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 00:34:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6152 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 00:34:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6148 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 00:34:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 00:34:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1521C19BA9; Wed, 7 May 2003 11:34:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.182]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 6AE9719B83 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 11:33:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-41-91.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.41.91 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2003 15:33:43 -0000 Message-ID: <3EB9352B.9060603@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: C (Was: [9fans] same functions everywhere) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 11:32:43 -0500 > > >Well, yes, but even the most seasoned programmers >*can* make mistakes. I believe the issue at hand >is that having this check (and others) a part of >the language permits quick bug discovery and as >a result faster development cycles, in addition >to safer code. > You're right. Everyone makes mistakes. Though, I can't submit to that as a valid reason to move away from a particular language or define a just-in-case subset to a language. However, I do feel justified to present a format for dealing with the issue: breaking down the development process. To me, this goes right back to design. Breaking the development process in to segments allows a project to be generated with less flaws if adhered to. I'm basically looking at a format of: theory, design, audit. I'm sure alot of us already use this formula, to some extent, in our work, now. Adding on machines that check for "exceptions", such as a buffer overflow, are often only throwing mud on top of a dirt grave. There's still a dead cat under there, somewhere (snowball II?). In my opinion, this is a big problem with the design of resources, from UNIX to Windows, and beyond. Instead of looking ahead to determine the most likely long-term solution, we seem to patch this-and-that when it seems fit: i.e. sockets in UNIX, secure-logins, IDS, honeypots, etc. Sure, some of these things were great improvements/hacks, but, in the end, the patchwork-quilt design becomes a problem. Think about how many of these things could have been eradicated if we had the fore-sight when UNIX was being designed. Hasn't Pike been saying this stuff for years? Don From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 00:49:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 00:49:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6303 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 00:49:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6299 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 00:49:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 00:49:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 565A319BAB; Wed, 7 May 2003 11:49:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0C02219B1E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 11:48:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h47Fmbqt024577 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 09:48:37 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h47FmbIG032743 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 09:48:37 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: <20030507043633.GX36080@cassie.foobarbaz.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] acme/sam problem Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 09:47:01 -0600 (MDT) another newbie question: cpu% src date B: can't find sam server file cpu% What should I start looking for to find out what's up? Also, on drawterm, I am getting rio and acme windows with text which is not visible. I can type, cursor moves, you just don't see anything. Is there some place I should start looking for why this is happening? thanks ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 00:58:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 00:58:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6459 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 00:58:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6455 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 00:58:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 00:58:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 35AD219BAF; Wed, 7 May 2003 11:58:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0E2E619B91 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 11:57:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h47G0b9p001976 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 10:00:37 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h47G0b5p001972 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 10:00:37 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme/sam problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 10:00:37 -0600 (MDT) > Also, on drawterm, I am getting rio and acme windows with text which is > not visible. I can type, cursor moves, you just don't see anything. Is > there some place I should start looking for why this is happening? > I know now! This is the same laptop I had (and reported exactly the same issue some time ago). Now that you have it you're experiencing the same problem. The difference now is that you're running RedHat (I had FreeBSD installed) and drawterm-linux (I had drawterm-freebsd).. What's the same is XFree86 and the video hardware -- S3. I believe it was assumed to be a race in XFillRectangle somewhere... So we blame XF86 and S3 for it -- I haven't had any problems running drawterm with either Radeon 7500 or NVidia TNT2... andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 01:00:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 01:00:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6474 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 01:00:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6470 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 01:00:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 01:00:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9BFD419BB6; Wed, 7 May 2003 12:00:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 78E0919B9B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 11:59:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h47Fxic17392; Wed, 7 May 2003 11:59:44 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: <7b5a4bb90f72e9876d68427e3fbfc07c@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme/sam problem From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 11:59:44 -0400 You're not running a plumber, so src falls back on trying to find an instance of sam posted in /srv. Start a plumber before you start rio. Presumably this is in a drawterm session. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 01:02:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 01:02:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6517 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 01:02:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6513 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 01:02:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 01:02:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7405E19B91; Wed, 7 May 2003 12:02:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id D8AA219BB0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 12:01:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 16605 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 16:01:18 -0000 Received: from roke.cse.psu.edu (HELO bio.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.12.14) by galapagos.cse.psu.edu with SMTP; 7 May 2003 16:01:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 26258 invoked by uid 991); 7 May 2003 16:01:18 -0000 Message-ID: <20030507160118.26257.qmail@f.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere In-Reply-To: Message from "Russ Cox" of "Wed, 07 May 2003 10:43:32 EDT." <1e60225df5d323bb940b32776c4c9ab0@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 12:01:18 -0400 | You're all nuts. But at least use nelem(a) in | place of sizeof(a)/sizeof(int). Maybe nelem should be a compiler builtin, so it can draw a syntax error when applied to anything that has decayed to a pointer (i.e. almost every use of an array). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 01:26:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 01:26:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6727 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 01:26:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6723 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 01:26:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 01:26:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AAE8619BBB; Wed, 7 May 2003 12:26:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8011519BB0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 12:25:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 16671 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 16:25:27 -0000 Received: from roke.cse.psu.edu (HELO bio.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.12.14) by galapagos.cse.psu.edu with SMTP; 7 May 2003 16:25:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 26309 invoked by uid 991); 7 May 2003 16:25:27 -0000 Message-ID: <20030507162527.26308.qmail@f.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere In-Reply-To: Message from rog@vitanuova.com of "Wed, 07 May 2003 16:06:33 BST." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 12:25:27 -0400 > encountering the end of a file is in no way an exceptional condition. A better example is when a write fails. One common reason is a full disk; another is a broken pipe. They're not handled the same, but maybe they would have been if C had had an exception system. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 01:34:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 01:34:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6799 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 01:34:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6795 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 01:34:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 01:34:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 80B3119BB9; Wed, 7 May 2003 12:34:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 94CF119BB7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 12:33:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h47GXdfD030230 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 10:33:39 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h47GXdIG002488 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 10:33:39 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme/sam problem In-Reply-To: <7b5a4bb90f72e9876d68427e3fbfc07c@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 10:32:04 -0600 (MDT) On Wed, 7 May 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > You're not running a plumber, so src falls > back on trying to find an instance of sam > posted in /srv. Start a plumber before you > start rio. Presumably this is in a drawterm > session. yes, silly of me to even ask that, I just had to do a ps and notice ... no plumber. arg. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 01:59:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 01:59:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7087 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 01:59:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7083 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 01:59:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 01:59:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 41ED619BBC; Wed, 7 May 2003 12:59:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E7A2B19BB3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 12:58:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6a792a21a9ac40f08688f7f5f15b3c69@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <000f01c31497$0a53d7f0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] snapshots -> archives Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 18:01:53 +0100 i'm using venti on my laptop and haven't done snap -a very often (it needs to be done manually if the machine's not on all the time). i do however have lots of snapshots taken over the last month or so. question: is it possible to convert some of these snapshots to entries in archive. it would mean that i wouldn't lose all that history, which currently i will. the only other alternative that i can see is to vac the snapshots and store the scores somewhere, but that wouldn't give nearly such a seamless result. if there's no current way to do it, is there some fundamental reason why i won't be able to hack fossil to be able to do it? cheers, rog. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 02:03:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 02:03:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7128 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 02:03:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7124 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 02:03:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 02:03:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 50FC719BC4; Wed, 7 May 2003 13:03:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 00D6A19BC0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 13:02:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h47H2Oc26258; Wed, 7 May 2003 13:02:24 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] snapshots -> archives From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <6a792a21a9ac40f08688f7f5f15b3c69@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 13:02:24 -0400 > i'm using venti on my laptop and haven't done snap -a very often (it > needs to be done manually if the machine's not on all the time). > > i do however have lots of snapshots taken over the last month or so. > > question: is it possible to convert some of these snapshots to entries > in archive. it would mean that i wouldn't lose all that history, > which currently i will. > > the only other alternative that i can see is to vac the snapshots and > store the scores somewhere, but that wouldn't give nearly such a > seamless result. > > if there's no current way to do it, is there some fundamental reason > why i won't be able to hack fossil to be able to do it? there's no current way to do it. it should be easy enough. you need to move the snapshots into the /archive tree (some coding required) and then just run snap -a. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 02:30:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 02:30:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7864 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 02:30:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7860 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 02:30:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 02:30:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D501C19BBE; Wed, 7 May 2003 13:30:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 14F6619BBE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 13:29:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h47GXja9011746 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 12:33:45 -0400 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <3EB9352B.9060603@ameritech.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 12:33:45 -0400 (EDT) > problem. Think about how many of these things could > have been eradicated if we had the fore-sight when > UNIX was being designed. Hasn't Pike been saying > this stuff for years? > ``Your conventional `good citizen' can be depended on not to be too thoughtful. His ideas, beliefs, and practices are those of other people. He loves and hates with them. He is unreflectively loyal to the institutions under which he lives, and to the men who administer them. But the really educated good man has no right to go along without question.'' - Henry Raymond Mussey While written with government in mind, this statement seems apropos as a starter to this thread. What design issues about plan9 made it unsatisfactory to consider reworking research UNIX? Why reimplement everything from the ground up? If, for example, mk isn't sufficiently better than make, why bother? I've heard the spirit in the labs was such that everything had to be written anew to be considered worth using. In retrospect, was this mantra taken too far? Compatibility was of no concern, but now that labs folks are getting disseminated into the non-labs world we see 9 libraries getting "ported" over for use on *nix. Is there any concern that maybe it would have been better to keep an eye on compatibility instead of running off in a direction claiming the one true path? I guess I'm just wondering what ``problems with UNIX were too deep to fix.'' We know why aspects of current unix systems are inferior to 9, but perhaps if more effort was given to redesigning the problem areas in place the *nix world wouldn't be stuck using hacked 20 year old technology and we'd all be better off. Thoughts? Cheers, Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 02:36:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 02:36:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7972 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 02:36:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7968 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 02:36:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 02:36:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AA72419BC7; Wed, 7 May 2003 13:35:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from gamma12.escet.urjc.es (unknown [212.128.4.222]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 57F5319BC1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 13:34:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <05d52a6c7693c6fbbdbd52adc8d54ee0@plan9.escet.urjc.es> From: Fco.J.Ballesteros To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 19:34:47 +0200 I dont know what others say, but I feel that unix has problems too deep to fix whenever I want to 1. Use stuff that is not files from other machines 2. Write programs once to work on all the machines where my unix runs 3. Customize the environment without getting to the sys admin. IMHO, of course. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 04:30:04 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 04:30:04 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9206 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 04:29:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9202 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 04:29:49 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 04:29:49 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5213219BBF; Wed, 7 May 2003 15:29:34 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from infocom.km.ua (infocom.km.ua [195.230.134.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CC7B419B57 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 15:28:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kp.km.ua (root@kp.km.ua [217.196.174.2]) by infocom.km.ua (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/ic) with ESMTP id h47JSTT7068763 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 22:28:31 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Received: from localhost.localdomain (dialup16.kp.km.ua [217.196.174.31]) by kp.km.ua (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/kp-branch) with SMTP id h47JSQQf016665 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 22:28:27 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" From: "A.S. Kukhar" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Sorry, i'm a novice X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01050722284800.00585@localhost.localdomain> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 22:30:58 -0400 namesake you probably wanted to say a 2ghz P4? > ... > The speed is quite reasonable and the > machine (a 2ghz PIII) rarely feels bogged down > ... > andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 04:40:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 04:40:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9296 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 04:40:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9292 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 04:40:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 04:40:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3F96419B95; Wed, 7 May 2003 15:40:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from blacksheep.csh.rit.edu (blacksheep.csh.rit.edu [129.21.60.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BDEFD19A2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 15:39:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from csh.rit.edu (yorktown.cims.rit.edu [129.21.93.209]) by blacksheep.csh.rit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2570B24D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 15:39:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3EB9625E.2030507@csh.rit.edu> From: George Gensure User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4a) Gecko/20030401 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Sorry, i'm a novice References: <01050722284800.00585@localhost.localdomain> In-Reply-To: <01050722284800.00585@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 15:45:34 -0400 A.S. Kukhar wrote: >namesake you probably wanted to say a 2ghz P4? > > My god, a 2ghz P4 in 2001? Amazing how fast processors are getting. Now they're going back in time. (snicker) -George From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 05:02:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 05:02:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9550 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 05:02:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9546 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 05:02:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 05:02:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4C51519BA8; Wed, 7 May 2003 16:02:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 49F5119B98 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 16:01:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-mwtccewdfmpcfqpiqvnawimffd" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 16:01:35 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-mwtccewdfmpcfqpiqvnawimffd Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mk and rc are from Unix. You many not like them, but does that mean we're supposed to live forever with the original tools that existed under 5th edition Unix or wherever you've decided to freeze it? Is nmake any less different. If we'ld called it nnmake would that have been better. Before Plan 9, we were running lots of Unices held together by a few networks, a remote file system (different uid's on each Unix), and a bunch of remote execution commands. We hated it since it was much harder to manage and use than our old single mutiuser machine. We wanted an environment that not only put together a lot of boxes and made them look like one but which also would make use of the new technologies that were appearing (SMP's, heterogeneous architectures, juke boxes, ...). The thought was that the new environment wouldn't change from Unix except where we thought it would make our goal easier to build. The kernel had to go. The single monitor view of the Unix kernel was a real pain for making good use of the SMP's. Therefore, we started that from scratch. That didn't mean that the kenrel interface had to change though. That was a separate topic. Lots of others have rewritten the kernel from the ground up while maintaining something that looked more like a Unix. Ken and Rob thought up the idea of building everything around a single file system protocol. They also added the idea of a subjective namespace to try to unify all the binding ideas of Unix. This name space is the one thing underlying plan 9. We could have done the same thing to a Unix kernel (with an infinite amount of sweating) but the result would have been the same from the user standpoint, i.e., a system that looks very different. The ease which with it can be done can be witnessed by the number of failed/stalled attempts to add the plan 9 namespace to Linux... Also, we were tired of the general kitchen sink nature of Unix, especially of System V. If there were 3 projects or groups to do a single thing (like character processing, shared memory, networking, ...) they all eventually got jammed in. We wanted something simpler to work with. Lastly, we had all developed an extreme allergy to code filled with #if, #ifdef, #else, #elseif. Getting rid of that cruft by sticking differences into separate files/routines required a hell of a lot of rewriting. So the result was a different kenrel, with a different design philosophy, a similar but different interface, but mostly the same old commands. If you think that Unix was just a single track in comparison, you're sadly mistaken. We just made more of a bend than others did. We are guilty of rewriting commands just for the sake of doing it. The reason there was sometimes legitimate, to match our different kernel interfaces or whatever. However, ot was just as often so we wouldn't have to worry about Unix licenses. --upas-mwtccewdfmpcfqpiqvnawimffd Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed May 7 13:30:26 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Wed May 7 13:30:24 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AA63B19BC3; Wed, 7 May 2003 13:30:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 14F6619BBE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 13:29:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h47GXja9011746 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 12:33:45 -0400 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <3EB9352B.9060603@ameritech.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 12:33:45 -0400 (EDT) > problem. Think about how many of these things could > have been eradicated if we had the fore-sight when > UNIX was being designed. Hasn't Pike been saying > this stuff for years? > ``Your conventional `good citizen' can be depended on not to be too thoughtful. His ideas, beliefs, and practices are those of other people. He loves and hates with them. He is unreflectively loyal to the institutions under which he lives, and to the men who administer them. But the really educated good man has no right to go along without question.'' - Henry Raymond Mussey While written with government in mind, this statement seems apropos as a starter to this thread. What design issues about plan9 made it unsatisfactory to consider reworking research UNIX? Why reimplement everything from the ground up? If, for example, mk isn't sufficiently better than make, why bother? I've heard the spirit in the labs was such that everything had to be written anew to be considered worth using. In retrospect, was this mantra taken too far? Compatibility was of no concern, but now that labs folks are getting disseminated into the non-labs world we see 9 libraries getting "ported" over for use on *nix. Is there any concern that maybe it would have been better to keep an eye on compatibility instead of running off in a direction claiming the one true path? I guess I'm just wondering what ``problems with UNIX were too deep to fix.'' We know why aspects of current unix systems are inferior to 9, but perhaps if more effort was given to redesigning the problem areas in place the *nix world wouldn't be stuck using hacked 20 year old technology and we'd all be better off. Thoughts? Cheers, Sam --upas-mwtccewdfmpcfqpiqvnawimffd-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 05:35:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 05:35:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9808 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 05:35:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9804 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 05:35:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 05:35:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C515319BCD; Wed, 7 May 2003 16:35:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mx01.netapp.com (mx01.netapp.com [198.95.226.53]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E8F1019BA0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 16:34:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frejya.corp.netapp.com (frejya [10.10.20.91]) by mx01.netapp.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/NTAP-1.4) with ESMTP id h47KYfFB024798 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 13:34:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from place.org ([192.168.72.239]) by frejya.corp.netapp.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/NTAP-1.4) with ESMTP id h47KYeln012041 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 13:34:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3EB96DDF.20600@place.org> From: Stephen Wynne User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 13:34:39 -0700 David Presotto wrote: > Ken and Rob thought up the idea of building everything around a > single file system protocol. This particular post of Dave's explains the whole plan9 effort in a simpler and more succinct way than I've seen before. (Not that I've read every description of why plan9 was undertaken.) If I haven't missed a better one, I think we should put it in the FAQ. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 06:12:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 06:12:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10231 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 06:12:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10227 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 06:12:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 06:12:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 58D0419BB8; Wed, 7 May 2003 17:12:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from infocom.km.ua (infocom.km.ua [195.230.134.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9164819B57 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 17:11:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kp.km.ua (root@kp.km.ua [217.196.174.2]) by infocom.km.ua (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/ic) with ESMTP id h47LB7T7086223 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 00:11:08 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Received: from localhost.localdomain (dialup13.kp.km.ua [217.196.174.28]) by kp.km.ua (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/kp-branch) with SMTP id h47LB0Qf025189 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 00:11:05 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" From: "A.S. Kukhar" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Sorry, i'm a novice X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] References: <01050722284800.00585@localhost.localdomain> <3EB9625E.2030507@csh.rit.edu> In-Reply-To: <3EB9625E.2030507@csh.rit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <03050800080500.00588@localhost.localdomain> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 00:14:01 -0400 oh yes, this is something like "back to the future" or "forth to the past", check this George. -kyxap > My god, a 2ghz P4 in 2001? Amazing how fast processors > are getting. Now they're going back in time. > > (snicker) > -George From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 06:12:57 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 06:12:57 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10239 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 06:12:57 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10235 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 06:12:57 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 06:12:57 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2CD6019BD1; Wed, 7 May 2003 17:12:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from infocom.km.ua (infocom.km.ua [195.230.134.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B782C19BA0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 17:11:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kp.km.ua (root@kp.km.ua [217.196.174.2]) by infocom.km.ua (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/ic) with ESMTP id h47LB8T7086224 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 00:11:09 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Received: from localhost.localdomain (dialup13.kp.km.ua [217.196.174.28]) by kp.km.ua (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/kp-branch) with SMTP id h47LB0Qg025189 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 00:11:07 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" From: "A.S. Kukhar" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] References: <3EB96DDF.20600@place.org> In-Reply-To: <3EB96DDF.20600@place.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <03050800123204.00588@localhost.localdomain> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 00:14:11 -0400 Steve should (http://www.fywss.com/plan9/plan9faq.html) -kyxap > David Presotto wrote: > > Ken and Rob thought up the idea of building everything > > around a single file system protocol. > > This particular post of Dave's explains the whole plan9 > effort in a simpler and more succinct way than I've seen > before. (Not that I've read every description of why > plan9 was undertaken.) > > If I haven't missed a better one, I think we should put > it in the FAQ. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 06:44:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 06:44:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10547 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 06:44:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10543 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 06:44:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 06:44:41 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 346FC19BCE; Wed, 7 May 2003 17:44:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3D35619A98 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 17:43:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h47Lk0wZ003015 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 15:46:00 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h47Lk0K1003011 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 15:46:00 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] raid on plan9? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 15:46:00 -0600 (MDT) i can't find any information on the wiki about supported raid controllers under plan9. i can see from urjc.es' site that nemo is running a raid venti/fossil configuration, but no controller is listed.. can you give me more information about the various raids you use: what controllers, types of raid and possibly gotchas I should be aware of... i promise to update the wiki afterwards :) also, i should assume that there is no driver for the 3COM 3C940 Gigabit cards, since nobody said they've used one, right? the raid controller i have in mind comes with asus Asus P4C800 and is a Promise 20378. andrey ps (offtopic) interesting thing, the antares 5070 is somewhat based on plan9, apparently: The Antares 5070 is a high performance, versatile, yet relatively inexpensive host based RAID controller. Its embedded operating system (K9 kernel) is modelled on the Plan 9 operating system whose design is discussed in several papers from AT&T (see the "Further Reading" section). K9 is a kernel targeted at embedded controllers of small to medium complexity (e.g. ISDN-ethernet bridges, RAID controllers, etc). It supports multiple lightweight processes (i.e. without memory management) on a single CPU with a non-pre-emptive scheduler. Device driver architecture is based on Plan 9 (and Unix SVR4) streams. Concurrency control mechanisms include semaphores and signals. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 06:58:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 06:58:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10740 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 06:58:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10736 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 06:58:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 06:58:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AB02C19BD6; Wed, 7 May 2003 17:58:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fywss.com (CPE00a024785914-CM.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [24.157.165.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9B84919B83 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 17:57:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from spitfire.fywss.com (steve@localhost) by fywss.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h47LvOP03483 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 17:57:24 -0400 Message-Id: <200305072157.h47LvOP03483@fywss.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: steve@fywss.com (Steve Kotsopoulos) Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 07 May 2003 13:34:39 PDT." <3EB96DDF.20600@place.org> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 17:57:23 -0400 yes, I agree Stephen Wynne wrote: > David Presotto wrote: > > > Ken and Rob thought up the idea of building everything around a > > single file system protocol. > > This particular post of Dave's explains the whole plan9 effort in a > simpler and more succinct way than I've seen before. (Not that I've > read every description of why plan9 was undertaken.) > > If I haven't missed a better one, I think we should put it in the FAQ. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 07:27:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 07:27:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11043 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 07:27:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11039 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 07:27:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 07:27:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 269FD19B6E; Wed, 7 May 2003 18:27:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from shake.cse.psu.edu (shake.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.7]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2AE6519A28 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 18:26:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from microsoft.com (216-64-136-14.gen.twtelecom.net [216.64.136.14]) by shake.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server (Backup MX)) with SMTP id AFA0F187C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 18:26:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Freeporns08 To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <71EI.EHKAG69E9FFB@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <71EI.EHKAG69E9FFB@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <88EK6G5312E7CH9D8@nic.fi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_E.HKD3.L86B_1.7_2D7.4J5_J" Subject: [9fans] 9fans, Adobe Photoshop 7.0 liquidation Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Newfreeporn07 List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 21:31:16 +0000 ------=_NextPart_E.HKD3.L86B_1.7_2D7.4J5_J Content-Type: text/html; charset=Windows-1251 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit WHY we are giving away Top Quality Software at ROCK BOTTOM Prices


 

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------=_NextPart_E.HKD3.L86B_1.7_2D7.4J5_J-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 08:22:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 08:22:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11744 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 08:22:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11740 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 08:22:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 08:22:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AFBFD19B63; Wed, 7 May 2003 19:22:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A481219B63 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 19:21:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-41-91.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.41.91 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2003 23:21:38 -0000 Message-ID: <3EB9A2D5.6090909@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 19:20:37 -0500 > > >``Your conventional `good citizen' can be depended >on not to be too thoughtful. His ideas, beliefs, >and practices are those of other people. He loves >and hates with them. He is unreflectively loyal to >the institutions under which he lives, and to the >men who administer them. But the really educated >good man has no right to go along without question.'' > - Henry Raymond Mussey > Somehow, I find it hard to believe that simply because I've come to the same conclusion that other people have, I'm a blindly loyal follower. The fact is I have questioned. That is *why* I got interested in OS research. That is *why* I forced myself to read the entire BSD kernel and plan9 kernel before I even fully understood the C language. That is *why* I chose to take on my own OS development initiatives to push myself further than what I've learned from the above, and other, experiences. If two brilliant men both surmise that E=MC2, is only the first one that brings the subject to public light seen as genius? Or, are they both respected for the hard work they've done. If you noticed, I said that there was merit in a lot of the work done by the patchwork-quilt appendages to the UNIX world, and others. If it wasn't for Windows, I wouldn't even *be* involved in computers, today. Just because these things have design problems relating to their eventual growth and extension doesn't mean they're any less usable or worthy of praise. However, it *does* mean that developers have to be wary in implementing new techniques. VPN in a Windows environment is a superb example of this. Look how many problems the design of their driver architecture had when attempting to implement a secure wide-area-network infrastructure. Rather than pursuing a solution that would afford e-business some security, they patched in a simple driver that afforded horrible overlay of crypto to a sickly protocol that was easily manipulated by security analysts with a wide range of skill: www.atstake.com, www.team-teso.net, etc. The problems do not seem to end here. It isn't necessarily that things *can't* be fixed, as much as it is that to implement true dynamic flexibility in an Operating System, certain things need to be adhered to. Namespaces, presenting everything as files for simple resource exportation, runes, plumbing, embedded authentication semantics, to name a few, are all great examples of ways to extend the capability of an OS for *years* of research, when implementing new ideas, testing theory, or whatever you're doing. UNIX simply failed to have these things and because of the way the OS has been structured from years of hacking and rehacking, it would just be another *hack* to attempt implementation of these ideas. We've seen attempts at these hacks in projects like SELinux at the NSA and it is very telling that their work seems to prove that, though name spaces in a *NIX environment is a great ambition, the underlying VFS/Net framework presents a serious problem to the abstraction of isolated resource management, severely crippling the implementation. So, what you end up with is almost a redesigned Linux. Isn't it more sensible to move to another OS with these ideas built from the ground up, rather than spending a large amount of time attempting to redesign the core of an OS whose design is proven to be non-adherent to your goal? Sheesh. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 08:28:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 08:28:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11817 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 08:28:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11813 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 08:28:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 08:28:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E32E19B7F; Wed, 7 May 2003 19:28:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from edoras.nas.com (edoras.nas.com [206.63.100.8]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B6BB199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 19:27:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from castor (unknown [164.116.190.70]) by edoras.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 705C9EB1B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 16:27:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jdj by castor with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19DYJo-0008Pz-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 07 May 2003 16:27:24 -0700 From: Jack Johnson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] raid on plan9? Message-ID: <20030507232723.GC28928@castor> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 16:27:24 -0700 On Wed, May 07, 2003 at 03:46:00PM -0600, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > can you give me more information about the various raids you use: what > controllers, types of raid and possibly gotchas I should be aware of... > i promise to update the wiki afterwards :) The RAID setup in the original Venti paper is pretty slick: http://www.raidking.com/eide.htm It's basically a box that holds IDE drives and a RAID controller, but has a SCSI interface. I think the next time I need storage, this is exactly the route I'm going to go. No drivers to hassle with (on the OS of your choice), etc. They quoted me $4,212 USD for a 435 rackmount with 480GB (six 80GB drives). The prices get remarkably better the bigger you go: 1.08TB for $4,632 (until Friday, according to the quote). I also keep meaning to get my 3ware IDE RAID card running under Plan 9, but I lack motivation. (I have a 2-port I might be willing to lend out if someone feels energetic.) I suspect most of us are just using fs, though: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/magic/man2html/3/fs -Jack From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 08:30:16 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 08:30:16 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11837 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 08:30:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11833 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 08:30:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 08:30:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 53E9119B84; Wed, 7 May 2003 19:30:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D0C8619AFD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 19:29:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h47MXVa9013022 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 18:33:32 -0400 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 18:33:31 -0400 (EDT) > Mk and rc are from Unix. You many not like them, but does that mean I like rc a lot. Shell naming diversity seems appropriate as the entire user interface changes. mk's new interface added pattern-matching vs. suffix-transformation metarules (per hume's paper). In the face of history (egrep, fgrep, troff, etc) it may have been better accepted would it were [A-Za-z]make. Quibbling about naming conventions probably isn't helpful, though, and I should have probably picked something more capricious like print vs. printf. > > The thought was that the new environment wouldn't change from Unix > except where we thought it would make our goal easier to build. > The kernel had to go. The single monitor view of the Unix kernel > was a real pain for making good use of the SMP's. Therefore, we In retrospect, was this worth it? Sure, SMP machines are becoming more prevalent, but when I can get a 2GHz on my desktop the race with the back cpu server is pretty much over. Ron probably appreciates it in his cluster computing, but these days single processor systems are sufficiently cheap and fast for most needs. > interface had to change though. That was a separate topic. Lots > of others have rewritten the kernel from the ground up while > maintaining something that looked more like a Unix. Really? What were the purposes of these endeavors? > that looks very different. The ease which with it can be done > can be witnessed by the number of failed/stalled attempts > to add the plan 9 namespace to Linux... I think this assumes the 8+ edition kernels approached the complexity of linux, which I can't verify. Besides, your group is generally a touch sharper than your ``average bear.'' Thanks for the thoughts - I wasn't really trying to question the design decisions of the time as research motivated development should be open enough to permit any new path necessary. I'm more interested in your thoughts as designers now, looking back. What *could* have been done differently, or better? What does tomorrow's unix look like? I should have been more clear. I apologize. Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 08:48:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 08:48:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12231 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 08:48:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12227 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 08:48:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 08:48:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3FEBF19B93; Wed, 7 May 2003 19:48:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.184]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 61B3519AFD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 19:47:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-41-91.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.41.91 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2003 23:47:36 -0000 Message-ID: <3EB9A8EB.3070100@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 19:46:35 -0500 > > >In retrospect, was this worth it? Sure, SMP machines >are becoming more prevalent, but when I can get a 2GHz on >my desktop the race with the back cpu server is pretty much >over. Ron probably appreciates it in his cluster computing, >but these days single processor systems are sufficiently cheap >and fast for most needs. > Isn't that kind of like what Bill Gates said... something about "640 kilobytes should be enough"... SMP is still valuable for a ton of research, the DNA modeling project comes to mind. I was talking to fellow Interlochen "alumni", recently, that works at Pixar. All they do is use clusters of SMP Linux (according to him) to do image and animation generation. We could go on to the .mil's interest in crypto and quantum simulation... Simply *because* processors are becoming faster+relatively cheaper, means that scalable SMP systems are becoming more desired. With the parallel processing support of stuff like plan9 and friends, I think more corporations and laboratories are going to begin investing in distributed SMP clusters to process a range of data: from market analysis, to gene analysis (that'd be great if we could have an automated system to break down virii like SARS fairly quickly with a cluster, don't you think...?) ....! > > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 10:45:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 10:45:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16555 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 10:45:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16551 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 10:45:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 10:45:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3B88919BA4; Wed, 7 May 2003 21:45:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from shake.cse.psu.edu (shake.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.7]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A622C19B52 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 21:44:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dsl-200-67-220-66.prodigy.net.mx (dsl-200-67-220-66.prodigy.net.mx [200.67.220.66]) by shake.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server (Backup MX)) with SMTP id 60A96187C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 21:44:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bikerider.com ([54.130.150.169]) by browning4.fsnet.co.uk (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id 28336 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 May 2003 20:44:41 -0500 Received: from [145.164.183.41] by web9902.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 7 May 2003 20:44:39 -0500 From: "Julie" To: "" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_4C7D71BB.71BB2FF5" Subject: [9fans] Kylie- Girls with Horses 253014828 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 20:44:34 -0500 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_4C7D71BB.71BB2FF5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_4C7D71BB.71BB2FF5" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PEhUTUw+DQo8IUNhcmx5PjwhQW5kcmVhPjwhTmF0YXNoYT48IUNhc2V5PjwhSGVhdGhlcj48 IU5vIHdheS4+PCFLYXRpZT48IURhbmllbGxlPjwhVGhpcyBpcyB0aGUgYmVzdC4+PCFJc2Fi ZWxsYT48IUNpbmR5PjwhS2F0aGxlZW4+PCFKYWRlPjwhU2hhbm5vbj4NCjxIRUFEPg0KPCFK ZW5uaWZlcj4NCjxUSVRMRT5SQTwhQXNobGVlPlcgRkE8IU5hbmFtaT5STSBTRTwhTWFrYXls YT5YPC9USVRMRT4NCjwhTWFkaXNvbj4NCjxNRVRBIGh0dHAtZXF1aXY9Q29udGVudC1UeXBl IGNvbnRlbnQ9InRleHQvaHRtbDsgY2hhcnNldD1pc28tODg1OS0xIj4NCjwhS2F5bGE+PCFW aWN0b3JpYT48IUF1ZHJleT48IUdpbmE+DQo8L0hFQUQ+DQo8cCBhbGlnbj0iY2VudGVyIj48 YSBocmVmPSJodHRwOi8vNTAzMTI1MDEwNjM1NUB3d3cuYWRsdG1haWxzLm5ldC9mYXJtLmh0 bWwiPg0KPGltZyBzcmM9Imh0dHA6Ly8xMjMwMDE3NzQxOTEzQHd3dy5hZGx0bWFpbHMubmV0 L3Jhdy5naWYiIHdpZHRoPSI0NjgiIGhlaWdodD0iNjAiPjwvYT4NCjxib2R5PjwhSnVsaWU+ PCFTdGVwaGFuaWU+PCFNZWxhbmllPjwhQnJpZGdldD4NCjxicj4NCjxicj4NCjxocj4NCjxw PiA8L3A+DQo8YnI+DQo8YnI+PCFCcmlkZ2V0Pg0KPGJyPjwhU2FtYW50aGE+DQo8YnI+PCFT aGFuaWE+DQo8YnI+PCFDaHJpc3RpbmE+DQo8YnI+PCFDcmlzdGluYT4NCjxicj48IUphZGU+ DQo8YSBocmVmPSJodHRwOi8vMTM0ODgyMjAwNTI0ODc0QHd3dy5hZGx0bWFpbHMubmV0L3Uu cGhwP2lkPTlmYW5zQGNzZS5wc3UuZWR1Ij5SZTwhSHVudGVyPm1vPCFBbmdlbD52ZSBNPCFK ZXNzaWNhPmUNCjwvQk9EWT48L0hUTUw+ ------=_NextPart_000_0007_4C7D71BB.71BB2FF5-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 13:05:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 13:05:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22857 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 13:05:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22853 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 13:05:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 13:05:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 79DA8199E4; Thu, 8 May 2003 00:05:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D9AE719A63 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 00:04:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <53146322c50aa0de256790d773f53e75@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 00:04:57 -0400 > What does tomorrow's unix look like? I'm confident that tomorrow's Unix will look like today's Unix, only cruftier. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 18:02:02 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 18:02:02 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2382 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 18:01:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2378 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 18:01:51 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 18:01:51 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8463419B82; Thu, 8 May 2003 05:01:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from netscape.com (c3po.aoltw.net [64.236.137.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2CADD19B94 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 05:00:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yoda.mcom.com ([10.128.72.204]) by netscape.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id h4890Hn26959 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 02:00:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from will5510 ([10.128.74.235]) by yoda.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id HEK90F00.RD9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 09:00:15 +0000 Message-ID: <06ef01c31540$3227df70$eb4a800a@will5510> From: "will551" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] Tcl Now Available for Plan 9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 09:59:49 +0100 hi Kenji soz about that - downloaded it now myself and found the same thing - will upload it again tonight about midnight - will let 9fans know will551 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 7:43 AM Subject: Re: [9fans] Tcl Now Available for Plan 9 > Hi-- > > I tried this today, and found it's been corrupted. > I can extract only generic subdirecrory. I'd be happy > if you could check it out. > > Thank you very much in advance, > > Kenji > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 18:12:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 18:12:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2675 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 18:12:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2671 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 18:12:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 18:12:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 563E019BA1; Thu, 8 May 2003 05:12:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 20A7B19B6F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 05:11:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19DhOf-0004WK-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 08 May 2003 10:09:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EB9E977.4000909@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20030501160047.7231.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu>, <3EB8E817.4090609@ameritech.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 09:08:16 GMT northern snowfall wrote: > Exceptions in a C environment is basically admitting that you > don't understand enough about C to promote elegant and simple > solutions to complex problems in that language. Not really. Exceptions reflect complications due to some warts of the real world. These can *occur* no matter what syntax is available, and the only real issue is how to deal with them. Leaving that decision to each and every instance of a function invocation hardly qualifies as "elegant", and the resulting code is not "simple" (unless it fails to deal with the exceptional cases; alas, a lot of existing code is like that). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 18:12:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 18:12:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2687 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 18:12:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2683 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 18:12:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 18:12:46 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9717E19BAD; Thu, 8 May 2003 05:12:17 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B0CF019B83 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 05:11:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19DhOg-0004WS-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 08 May 2003 10:09:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EB9EA8C.40001@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20030501160047.7231.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu>, <20030507124006.D26796@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 09:08:27 GMT Lucio De Re wrote: > while (x < 100 && a[x] != v) { Of course there is a well-known "kludge" when the array has been allocated with an extra slot that can be safely written: a[100] = v; // sentinel while (a[x] != v) { which speeds the loop up. The obvious test at the end distinguishes between "found" and "not found". I'm not suggesting fine-grained exceptions for such application unless tightly integrated into the language. For Standard C at present we seem to be limited to using setjmp/longjmp, which has too much overhead on most platforms. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 18:13:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 18:13:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2711 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 18:13:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2707 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 18:13:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 18:13:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3BD0719BA6; Thu, 8 May 2003 05:13:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 958A219BA2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 05:12:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19DhOf-0004WE-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 08 May 2003 10:09:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EB9E853.7040405@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <3EB87BDC.30305@null.net>, Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 09:08:02 GMT rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > (BTW, getc doesn't use in-band signalling, and even if it did, > tuples are a much cleaner solution than exceptions, IMHO). In C, it certainly does. EOF is returned instead of data when end-of-file is detected. An alternative to using an exception would be to separate the return into two kinds of information instad of just one; since C doesn't have tuples, and returning a struct makes for awkward usage, we could use something like io_status new_getc(unsigned char *where); From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 18:14:54 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 18:14:54 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2749 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 18:14:53 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2745 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 18:14:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 18:14:43 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CB9CB19BB7; Thu, 8 May 2003 05:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE04819BAE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 05:12:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19DhOh-0004We-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 08 May 2003 10:09:03 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EB9EBAF.1000303@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <3EB8E817.4090609@ameritech.net>, Subject: Re: C (Was: [9fans] same functions everywhere) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 09:08:52 GMT Sam wrote: > While I've not read it, I'm told the commentary > on the c99 standard is about 1k pages long. I > belive this qualifies as sufficiently bloated. Do you mean the Rationale document? (A work still in progress.) It has to discuss what could have been done but wasn't, and why not. That's inherently a lot of stuff, and isn't necessary to understand C. A better example would be K&R 2nd Ed. which is a tutorial and abbreviated reference guide; much less than 1000 pages. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 18:16:54 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 18:16:54 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2874 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 18:16:54 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2870 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 18:16:53 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 18:16:53 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 20B5D19BBD; Thu, 8 May 2003 05:13:24 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 17CFB19BA2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 05:12:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19DhOh-0004WY-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 08 May 2003 10:09:03 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EB9EAEA.2000000@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <1e60225df5d323bb940b32776c4c9ab0@plan9.bell-labs.com>, <3EB92AAA.8050202@ameritech.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 09:08:42 GMT northern snowfall wrote: >> You're all nuts. > I call cashews Gesundheits. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 18:52:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 18:52:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4657 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 18:52:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4648 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 18:52:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 18:52:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 109DF19B94; Thu, 8 May 2003 05:52:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from unix127.hosting-network.com (unknown [66.186.208.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1113519B6F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 05:51:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 269 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 09:52:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cc77109e) (203.51.64.118) by 66.186.208.13 with SMTP; 8 May 2003 09:52:50 -0000 X-Comments: BlackMail headers - Mail to abuse@featureprice.com to report spam. X-Authenticated-Connect: 203.51.64.118 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 05:52:50(EDT) on May 08, 2003 X-HELO-From: cc77109e X-Mail-From: X-Sender-IP-Address: 203.51.64.118 Message-ID: <00f601c31547$aa81cb00$c901a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030501160047.7231.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu>, <20030507124006.D26796@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <3EB9EA8C.40001@null.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 19:49:19 +1000 the plan9 setjmp/longjmps i've seen play with the PC and the SP. that's cheap. that's why we the error stuff in the kernel doesn't hit performance. > For Standard C at present we seem to be limited to using > setjmp/longjmp, which has too much overhead on most > platforms. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 20:21:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 20:21:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6908 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 20:21:11 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6904 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 20:21:11 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 20:21:11 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DACDF19BB5; Thu, 8 May 2003 07:20:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 93F6619A63 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 07:19:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h48BJe1H003791 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 13:19:42 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h48BJbug003790 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 8 May 2003 13:19:37 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <20030508131930.D3308@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us Organization: Proxima Research & Development Subject: [9fans] A ViRGE entry. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 13:19:32 +0200 I'm running Plan 9 on a VGA adapter with the following ID: vid=0x5333 did=0x8811 # ViRGE ??? I think this can safely be added to /lib/vgadb. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 20:24:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 20:24:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6965 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 20:24:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6961 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 20:24:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 20:24:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A583719B52; Thu, 8 May 2003 07:24:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F063019B52 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 07:23:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h48BN11H003810 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 13:23:03 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h48BMwFt003809 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 8 May 2003 13:22:58 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20030508132253.E3308@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <004e01c31555$ea1d5460$6b4374a1@bio.ub.es> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <004e01c31555$ea1d5460$6b4374a1@bio.ub.es>; from enricv on Thu, May 08, 2003 at 10:18:34AM +0100 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Subject: [9fans] Re: FWD: Watch this pack from M$ Corporation. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 13:22:54 +0200 On Thu, May 08, 2003 at 10:18:34AM +0100, enricv wrote: > > Content-Disposition: attachment; > filename="q377623.exe" > A virus carrier? ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 22:10:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 22:10:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8729 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 22:10:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8725 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 22:10:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 22:10:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 682CC19BC5; Thu, 8 May 2003 09:10:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B082719B73 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 09:09:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4bb7193815221f5e70d7548882f9109a@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <3EB9E853.7040405@null.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 14:12:38 +0100 DAGwyn@null.net: > rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > > (BTW, getc doesn't use in-band signalling, and even if it did, > > tuples are a much cleaner solution than exceptions, IMHO). > > In C, it certainly does. EOF is returned instead of data > when end-of-file is detected. depends on how you look at the return value of getc. there's no ambiguity between the different kinds of return value. one can consider the return value from getc to be "character X or no character" in just the same way that a function returning a pointer to a struct can be considered to return "pointer to struct or nil". it's a perfectly good kind of data - EOF is only out of band if one doesn't consider "not EOF" to be part of the normal getc return value. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 22:18:16 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 22:18:16 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8846 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 22:18:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8842 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 22:18:15 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 22:18:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A75519BC9; Thu, 8 May 2003 09:18:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A138019B73 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 09:17:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0b309a96d05641e239202dc8a0280609@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <00f601c31547$aa81cb00$c901a8c0@cc77109e> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 14:20:27 +0100 > the plan9 setjmp/longjmps i've seen play with the PC and the SP. > that's cheap. that's why we the error stuff in the kernel doesn't > hit performance. if the plan 9 compilers were callee-save, it wouldn't be so cheap, presumably. i imagine that might be a source of the inefficiency on other platforms. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 8 23:38:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 8 23:38:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10195 invoked by uid 1020); 8 May 2003 23:38:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10191 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 23:38:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 May 2003 23:38:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 76D3219BC8; Thu, 8 May 2003 10:38:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 74EC719BB3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 10:37:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <23f6dbd1f7472f448cc81be441637404@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <20030507162527.26308.qmail@f.bio.cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 15:40:37 +0100 > A better example is when a write fails. One common reason is a full disk; > another is a broken pipe. They're not handled the same, but maybe they > would have been if C had had an exception system. a closed pipe is a special case because it is known that a write can never work again. (actually, i always thought you got a least one error before you got a signal, so that a program that actually checks for write errors won't be killed, but a quick experiment shows me to be wrong). writes fail all the time in plan 9, without necessarily meaning anything unduly significant (a syntax error in a ctl request for example). killing the process responsible seems a bit heavy handed. i guess one has to ask: would killing the process result in more sensible default behaviour in most cases than just ignoring the error? in the case of named pipes, i think it's safe to say that it would. (stopping endless resource hogging). for most other things, i don't think so... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 00:34:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 00:34:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11158 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 00:34:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11154 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 00:34:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 00:34:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D074819BE2; Thu, 8 May 2003 11:34:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 02DB319BE3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 11:33:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 11:33:13 -0400 On Wed May 7 19:30:16 EDT 2003, sah@softcardsystems.com wrote: > ... > What *could* have been done differently, or better? > ... 'Wormingest' and 'atolwhex' would be reserved words. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 00:43:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 00:43:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11333 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 00:43:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11329 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 00:43:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 00:43:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1CC1C19BEA; Thu, 8 May 2003 11:43:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0B66819BE5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 11:42:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2d47347353bfadb65915218426041e72@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 11:41:58 -0400 Dave Mazieres had a reasonable take on the name space. The implementation in the kernel (chan.c) is hard to understand. Exportfs is wierd because the namespace it exports isn't really what it sees (a bunch of different mount points all with their own qid space) but instead makes up a new qid space to paper over the differences. He wanted to make the name space even more visible, make the file protocol recursive (i.e. able to encapsulate in a visible way subsets of itself), and perhaps implement the whole thing at user level. I didn't really like his particular solution in that direction but I believe that his observation was right. I'm just not sure what the fix should be or even if it wouldn't be worse than the problem. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 01:19:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 01:19:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11947 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 01:19:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11943 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 01:19:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 01:19:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0417719BEB; Thu, 8 May 2003 12:19:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D0E619B9A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 12:18:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8c0e82696bf7c14e52a7db8fd1287970@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <2d47347353bfadb65915218426041e72@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 17:21:19 +0100 > Exportfs is wierd because the namespace it exports isn't > really what it sees (a bunch of different mount points all > with their own qid space) but instead makes up a new qid > space to paper over the differences. making a qid path a variable-length byte array would get you quite a long way, i think... but how costly would it be? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 01:26:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 01:26:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12069 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 01:26:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12065 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 01:26:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 01:26:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C7BD019BEC; Thu, 8 May 2003 12:26:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E65B419BC3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 12:25:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7f7d37e3f08741687eaa3b7c910e3cf6@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <2d47347353bfadb65915218426041e72@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 12:25:01 -0400 A student here at MIT is going to try out something approaching dm's idea. Make the kernel interface 9P instead of the usual file system calls. Have the kernel do proper multiplexing* of the 9P connections rather than rely on exportfs's inexact approximation. Exportfs becomes a system call, like in Inferno but with a precise implementation. Processes that want to do a lot of overlapped I/O can exportfs("/") and then interact with their name space via 9P messages, avoiding the need for lots of slave procs to manage just to run I/O. The kernel drivers would change to deal with 9P explicitly (like the 9P2000 lib9p interface) rather than assume that the call needs to have the reply ready before it returns (like the 9P1 lib9p interface). This will complicate things a little, but opens new doors too. For example, the SCSI driver could easily look at the 9P queue and do disk scheduling or issue multiple SCSI requests at once. It'll be a while before we see how it turns out. Russ [*] By proper I just mean that the message are translated faithfully. Exportfs can't do that exactly since it's constantly rewalking paths and trying to use the system calls to implement the messages. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 01:28:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 01:28:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12078 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 01:28:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12074 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 01:28:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 01:28:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8129819BEE; Thu, 8 May 2003 12:28:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 730CC19A63 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 12:27:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8354d64f77792b8840eeaf838a906783@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <8c0e82696bf7c14e52a7db8fd1287970@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 12:27:08 -0400 Variable-length qids don't fix the real problem. If I have the same file server mounted on my terminal and in my cpu session, then I'd like cp /mnt/term/usr/rsc/lib/profile /usr/rsc/lib/profile not to silently truncate my profile. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 01:50:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 01:50:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12355 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 01:50:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12351 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 01:50:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 01:50:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5CC3319BF3; Thu, 8 May 2003 12:50:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1950519B9A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 12:49:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2ad1abed64a82f7e3056f7c64ab2c0c3@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <8354d64f77792b8840eeaf838a906783@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 17:52:37 +0100 > If I have the same file server mounted on my terminal > and in my cpu session, then I'd like > > cp /mnt/term/usr/rsc/lib/profile /usr/rsc/lib/profile > > not to silently truncate my profile. i don't believe that's possible to solve (without some special mechanism for detecting identical files) unless you have globally unique qids, which i think would go against the grain in plan 9. the other problem you mentioned in a previous message: it would be nice if a cpu server could know that all the copies of rc that it's running are actually the same binary. this is an easier problem: Ropen could contain an optional SHA1 hash of the contents, venti style; in this case you don't care if they're the same file, just that the contents are identical. at least variable length qids would get rid of those insidious exportfs qid hacks and enable encapsulation without worries. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 02:01:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 02:01:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12506 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 02:01:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12502 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 02:01:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 02:01:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8516E19BF4; Thu, 8 May 2003 13:01:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3249619BC3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 13:00:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h48G4ha9015910 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 12:04:43 -0400 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way In-Reply-To: <3EB9A8EB.3070100@ameritech.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 12:04:43 -0400 (EDT) > > > Isn't that kind of like what Bill Gates said... something > about "640 kilobytes should be enough"... I suppose if we go to something completely revolutionary like, for example, 3D hologram interfaces (a la star wars: `help me obi wan kenobi, you're my only hope'), we could see processing power become a bottleneck again ... or not. Ingenuity hasn't been terribly successful at keeping up with Moore's law. The processor race in the 90s was fueled largely by systems overloaded with cruft. Ousterhout accurately asked, "why aren't operating systems getting faster as fast as hardware (usenix, '90)." Plan9 is a good answer to this question, but still seems rather heavy on the inside. It's not a one-man maintainable kernel, though SuperRuss certainly does an admirable job. > SMP is still valuable for a ton of research, the DNA modeling > project comes to mind. I was talking to fellow Interlochen Sure, there will always be a place for large computing systems. The question of whether it's necessary on the desktop still remains. Perhaps it has a place in a centralized file server, but perhaps not. We're facing a new paradigm where all the world is an x86, networks are fast *and* reliable, and it's all at a rather reasonable cost. As pragmatists, we're constantly trying to figure out how it can be done simpler. Perhaps the kernel *should* be architecture dependent, if you cover 95% of the world. Perhaps the complexity of an SMP kernel just isn't worth it unless you *are* examining DNA and even then, why a timesharing OS? Questioning design decisions and rewriting with discretion is all a part of system evolution. I think it's wonderful that our pioneers are still alive for us to bother. ;) There's something to be learned from 9 about system design and evolutionary compatibility in the face of long-term efficacy. Cheers, Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 02:05:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 02:05:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12578 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 02:05:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12574 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 02:05:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 02:05:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C25F019BF9; Thu, 8 May 2003 13:05:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BBE3E19BF5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 13:04:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01859 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 13:04:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h48H4s525418 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 13:04:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305081704.h48H4s525418@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 07 May 2003 13:34:39 PDT." <3EB96DDF.20600@place.org> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 13:04:54 -0400 > > Ken and Rob thought up the idea of building everything around a > > single file system protocol. > > This particular post of Dave's explains the whole plan9 effort in a > simpler and more succinct way than I've seen before. (Not that I've > read every description of why plan9 was undertaken.) > > If I haven't missed a better one, I think we should put it in the FAQ. I think it's a fine candidate for inclusion in the FAQ, but do want to point out that it's very similar to the Motivation section of the Plan 9 overview paper. Granted, Dave's being a lot more informal on the mailing list. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 02:09:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 02:09:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12667 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 02:09:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12663 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 02:09:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 02:09:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5FBF619BFD; Thu, 8 May 2003 13:09:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3193319BF5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 13:08:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 13:08:20 -0400 > We're facing a new paradigm where all the world > is an x86, networks are fast *and* reliable, > and it's all at a rather reasonable cost. Cost is subjective. None of the others are true. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 02:12:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 02:12:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12760 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 02:12:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12756 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 02:12:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 02:12:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D406219BFE; Thu, 8 May 2003 13:12:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 93F3319BED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 13:11:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02938 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 13:11:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h48HBv525515 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 13:11:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305081711.h48HBv525515@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 06 May 2003 09:09:32 GMT." <3EB37781.1030903@null.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 13:11:57 -0400 > I have the opposite opinion. I took a substantial > chunk of code from BRL's MUVES project, which was > very careful to "unwind" partial operations upon > errors, and rewrote it using a C exception package. > The result was cleaner looking, easier to follow, > and somewhat smaller, with explicit gotos (necessary > to unwind nested operations) removed. That is a win. Sounds like a good candidate for writing in C++ or a similar language. C isn't optimal for writing really big applications; it's great for smaller things like utilities, text editors, systems software, etc. But it's frankly inconvenient for building huge programs. It's just too low-level. E.g., if I ever have to write another hashing function to try and implement some sort of string-based lookup again, I'll scream. I don't understand why everyone feels the need to try and shoehorn their favorite language into every conceivable problem domain. C doesn't need a low-level string type, nor does it need exceptions; what programmers who are looking for those things need to do is look for another language. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 02:25:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 02:25:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12981 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 02:25:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12977 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 02:25:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 02:25:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1E31919C04; Thu, 8 May 2003 13:25:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D2DA519C02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 13:24:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6d1c7c5cd789aff4b0539ab9eed3c168@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <200305081711.h48HBv525515@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 13:24:07 -0400 > Sounds like a good candidate for writing in C++ or a similar language. > C isn't optimal for writing really big applications; it's great for > smaller things like utilities, text editors, systems software, etc. > But it's frankly inconvenient for building huge programs. It's just > too low-level. E.g., if I ever have to write another hashing function > to try and implement some sort of string-based lookup again, I'll > scream. All this and more can be said of C++. > I don't understand why everyone feels the need to try and shoehorn > their favorite language into every conceivable problem domain. Because when you start out writing a program in one language, once you get a lot of code written it's costly to switch to another. Or maybe you want to use some outside libraries available only in C. > C doesn't need a low-level string type, nor does it need exceptions; what > programmers who are looking for those things need to do is look for > another language. And what language is going to give it to them? C++? Ha. Ha ha ha. What happens when C++ is too low-level for the job at hand? It's not any more malleable than C is (though it is quite a bit more amorphous). I've been looking for another language for a few years now, and I don't see it. Would you have us not write programs because there's no good language to write them in? Claiming that the language designer will correctly anticipate the exact level of abstraction required for your huge program is ridiculous. The programmer has to be able to build up abstractions as necessary. And you can do this in C as well as you can in any of the other languages commonly used for systems programming. The only language that facilitates programmer-based extension outstandingly well is Lisp, but Lisp has other problems. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 02:28:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 02:28:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13032 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 02:28:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13027 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 02:28:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 02:28:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D7F8F19C05; Thu, 8 May 2003 13:27:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2048E19C05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 13:26:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05059 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 13:26:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h48HQ1525622 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 13:26:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305081726.h48HQ1525622@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 07 May 2003 19:46:35 CDT." <3EB9A8EB.3070100@ameritech.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 13:26:01 -0400 > Isn't that kind of like what Bill Gates said... something > about "640 kilobytes should be enough"... No, it's more like saying, ``wow, we can remove a lot of complexity that we may not need, since machines are so fast there's no need for it anymore.'' Kind of like moving from the x86's segmented memory architecture back in the day to a flat memory space. In other words, we've moved from a position of requiring SMP to get the kind of numbers needed to tackle big problems to not requiring SMP. It's completely valid to try and assess the impact of that. > SMP is still valuable for a ton of research, the DNA modeling > project comes to mind. I was talking to fellow Interlochen > "alumni", recently, that works at Pixar. All they do is use > clusters of SMP Linux (according to him) to do image and > animation generation. We could go on to the .mil's interest > in crypto and quantum simulation... Simply *because* processors > are becoming faster+relatively cheaper, means that scalable > SMP systems are becoming more desired. With the parallel > processing support of stuff like plan9 and friends, I think more > corporations and laboratories are going to begin investing > in distributed SMP clusters to process a range of data: from > market analysis, to gene analysis (that'd be great if we could > have an automated system to break down virii like SARS > fairly quickly with a cluster, don't you think...?) ....! All of that represents about 0% of the market. I'm not saying SMP is bad, or that support for it should be abandoned, but one should concentrate on where the biggest bang for the buck is. It's certainly a valid question whether that's in the SMP arena, and it would be intellectually dishonest to simply say, ``of course it is! Pixar uses it!'' As for breaking down SARS (which is way over-hyped to begin with; influenza kills many more people per day), why does one *need* SMP when networks of x86 machines connected by gigabit networks can be had cheaply? SMP may or may not be a better solution, but it's not a necessity, and one *must* evaluate the impact of it no longer being an absolute necessity for doing work on big problems. There's nothing wrong with that, or with asking questions. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 02:44:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 02:44:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13349 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 02:44:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13345 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 02:44:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 02:44:39 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3BA9419C13; Thu, 8 May 2003 13:43:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 063E519BF7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 13:42:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <61a8da7f32d9ffc6121bba498dc612ba@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <7f7d37e3f08741687eaa3b7c910e3cf6@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 18:45:57 +0100 > Processes that want to do a > lot of overlapped I/O can exportfs("/") and then interact > with their name space via 9P messages, avoiding the > need for lots of slave procs to manage just to run I/O. wouldn't you then need the slave procs on the server side, anyway? as you'd need to avoid blocking a device because its client wasn't reading the message... unless you added asynchronous writes, i suppose. > For example, the SCSI driver > could easily look at the 9P queue and do disk scheduling or > issue multiple SCSI requests at once. surely it could anyway? just give it a proc to itself, and have the various device entry points queue messages, which could then be inspected in much the same way. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 03:15:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 03:15:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13690 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 03:15:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13686 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 03:15:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 03:15:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C2D019C09; Thu, 8 May 2003 14:15:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EED7619BC3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 14:14:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12181 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 14:14:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h48IEr525849 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 14:14:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305081814.h48IEr525849@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 08 May 2003 13:24:07 EDT." <6d1c7c5cd789aff4b0539ab9eed3c168@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 14:14:53 -0400 You totally missed my point. What I was trying to convey is that one size doesn't fit all; there's no one single language for doing everything, but people tend to take a language and stick to it like glue, no matter that it might not be the best candidate for any given job. > > Sounds like a good candidate for writing in C++ or a similar language. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > C isn't optimal for writing really big applications; it's great for > > smaller things like utilities, text editors, systems software, etc. > > But it's frankly inconvenient for building huge programs. It's just > > too low-level. E.g., if I ever have to write another hashing function > > to try and implement some sort of string-based lookup again, I'll > > scream. > > All this and more can be said of C++. Perhaps. However, note that I said, ``or a similar language.'' C++ is a contrived example. However, I don't need to add a string type or exceptions to it, and the STL more or less eliminates the need to write stuff like linked lists or growable arrays or generic dictionary containers. That's a win if I want to get something done, and not fiddle around with a lot of low-level details. From the sounds of Doug's example, he had to do a lot of low-level wrangling. > > I don't understand why everyone feels the need to try and shoehorn > > their favorite language into every conceivable problem domain. > > Because when you start out writing a program in one language, > once you get a lot of code written it's costly to switch to another. > Or maybe you want to use some outside libraries available only in C. Continuing the C++ example, C++ makes it very easy to call C code. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that most languages one might seriously consider for writing big applications do. > > C doesn't need a low-level string type, nor does it need exceptions; what > > programmers who are looking for those things need to do is look for > > another language. > > And what language is going to give it to them? C++? Ha. Ha ha ha. No, Limbo. C++ *does* give you a string type and exceptions. Is it suitable for every job? No, but I never said it was. In fact, my point was that no single language is. Once again, the use of C++ was a contrived example. > What happens when C++ is too low-level for the job at hand? It's not > any more malleable than C is (though it is quite a bit more amorphous). So use something else. There are any number of languages available to fill all kinds of roles. Use whatever fits. > I've been looking for another language for a few years now, and I > don't see it. Would you have us not write programs because there's > no good language to write them in? What part of what I wrote makes you think that's what I meant? > Claiming that the language designer will correctly anticipate the > exact level of abstraction required for your huge program is ridiculous. I don't recall ever making that claim. Perhaps you can cite where I did. I do recall claiming that no one language is suitable for every application domain, and that trying to shoehorn C into being so is a mistake. > The programmer has to be able to build up abstractions as necessary. Agreed. > And you can do this in C as well as you can in any of the other languages > commonly used for systems programming. Note that I mentioned ``applications programming,'' not just ``systems programming.'' For systems programming, you're right. For applications programming, you're not. > The only language that facilitates programmer-based extension > outstandingly well is Lisp, but Lisp has other problems. That's subjective. I could argue that any number of functional programming languages do just as good a job as Lisp in this arena. But hell, why don't we all just program in some kind of generic assembly language? We can define a set of opcodes that map to useful operations, and build a macro assembler that provides a generic string type and exceptions. And why have a seperate shell language that we write scripts in? Why not write everything as a C program? - Dan ``One size doesn't fit all'' C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 03:22:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 03:22:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13814 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 03:22:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13810 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 03:22:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 03:22:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8C0A319BF5; Thu, 8 May 2003 14:22:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from littlegreenmen.armory.com (littlegreenmen.armory.com [192.122.209.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 18B1A19BF5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 14:21:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 28535 invoked by uid 0); 8 May 2003 18:21:21 -0000 From: root To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere Message-ID: <20030508182121.GA28503@littlegreenmen.armory.com> References: <6d1c7c5cd789aff4b0539ab9eed3c168@plan9.bell-labs.com> <200305081814.h48IEr525849@augusta.math.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200305081814.h48IEr525849@augusta.math.psu.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 11:21:21 -0700 You guys are headed down the wrong track. The right way to program is with small modules written in several different languages which are meant for specific purposes. -Phil/CERisE On Thu, May 08, 2003 at 02:14:53PM -0400, Dan Cross wrote: > You totally missed my point. What I was trying to convey is that one > size doesn't fit all; there's no one single language for doing everything, > but people tend to take a language and stick to it like glue, no matter > that it might not be the best candidate for any given job. > > > > Sounds like a good candidate for writing in C++ or a similar language. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > C isn't optimal for writing really big applications; it's great for > > > smaller things like utilities, text editors, systems software, etc. > > > But it's frankly inconvenient for building huge programs. It's just > > > too low-level. E.g., if I ever have to write another hashing function > > > to try and implement some sort of string-based lookup again, I'll > > > scream. > > > > All this and more can be said of C++. > > Perhaps. However, note that I said, ``or a similar language.'' C++ is > a contrived example. However, I don't need to add a string type or > exceptions to it, and the STL more or less eliminates the need to > write stuff like linked lists or growable arrays or generic dictionary > containers. That's a win if I want to get something done, and not > fiddle around with a lot of low-level details. From the sounds of Doug's > example, he had to do a lot of low-level wrangling. > > > > I don't understand why everyone feels the need to try and shoehorn > > > their favorite language into every conceivable problem domain. > > > > Because when you start out writing a program in one language, > > once you get a lot of code written it's costly to switch to another. > > Or maybe you want to use some outside libraries available only in C. > > Continuing the C++ example, C++ makes it very easy to call C code. In > fact, I'd go so far as to say that most languages one might seriously > consider for writing big applications do. > > > > C doesn't need a low-level string type, nor does it need exceptions; what > > > programmers who are looking for those things need to do is look for > > > another language. > > > > And what language is going to give it to them? C++? Ha. Ha ha ha. > > No, Limbo. > > C++ *does* give you a string type and exceptions. Is it suitable for > every job? No, but I never said it was. In fact, my point was that no > single language is. Once again, the use of C++ was a contrived example. > > > What happens when C++ is too low-level for the job at hand? It's not > > any more malleable than C is (though it is quite a bit more amorphous). > > So use something else. > > There are any number of languages available to fill all kinds of roles. > Use whatever fits. > > > I've been looking for another language for a few years now, and I > > don't see it. Would you have us not write programs because there's > > no good language to write them in? > > What part of what I wrote makes you think that's what I meant? > > > Claiming that the language designer will correctly anticipate the > > exact level of abstraction required for your huge program is ridiculous. > > I don't recall ever making that claim. Perhaps you can cite where I did. > > I do recall claiming that no one language is suitable for every > application domain, and that trying to shoehorn C into being so is a > mistake. > > > The programmer has to be able to build up abstractions as necessary. > > Agreed. > > > And you can do this in C as well as you can in any of the other languages > > commonly used for systems programming. > > Note that I mentioned ``applications programming,'' not just ``systems > programming.'' For systems programming, you're right. For applications > programming, you're not. > > > The only language that facilitates programmer-based extension > > outstandingly well is Lisp, but Lisp has other problems. > > That's subjective. I could argue that any number of functional > programming languages do just as good a job as Lisp in this arena. > > But hell, why don't we all just program in some kind of generic > assembly language? We can define a set of opcodes that map to useful > operations, and build a macro assembler that provides a generic string > type and exceptions. And why have a seperate shell language that we > write scripts in? Why not write everything as a C program? > > - Dan ``One size doesn't fit all'' C. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 03:34:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 03:34:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14095 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 03:34:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14091 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 03:34:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 03:34:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 45E9C19BC3; Thu, 8 May 2003 14:34:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5632619BAE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 14:33:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h48IXBc92940; Thu, 8 May 2003 14:33:11 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: <747cb3b26a5b2ea191f133039e9b587e@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <61a8da7f32d9ffc6121bba498dc612ba@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 14:33:11 -0400 > surely it could anyway? just give it a proc to itself, and have the > various device entry points queue messages, which could then be > inspected in much the same way. Sure. But then every driver doesn't have to do this for itself. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 03:35:05 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 03:35:05 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14108 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 03:35:05 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14104 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 03:35:05 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 03:35:05 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6775319C07; Thu, 8 May 2003 14:34:17 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from wilbur.25thandClement.com (wilbur.25thandclement.com [64.62.167.198]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1E53019BAE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 14:33:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wilbur.25thandClement.com (william@localhost [IPv6:::1]) by wilbur.25thandClement.com (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h48IXDah018048 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 11:33:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from william@localhost) by wilbur.25thandClement.com (8.12.7/8.12.6/Submit) id h48IXD1F028708 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 8 May 2003 11:33:13 -0700 (PDT) From: William Ahern To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere Message-ID: <20030508183313.GA26028@wilbur.25thandClement.com> References: <6d1c7c5cd789aff4b0539ab9eed3c168@plan9.bell-labs.com> <200305081814.h48IEr525849@augusta.math.psu.edu> <20030508182121.GA28503@littlegreenmen.armory.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030508182121.GA28503@littlegreenmen.armory.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 11:33:13 -0700 On Thu, May 08, 2003 at 11:21:21AM -0700, root wrote: > You guys are headed down the wrong track. > > The right way to program is with small modules written in several > different languages which are meant for specific purposes. > > -Phil/CERisE yeah. and isn't this the philosophy behind Unix and Plan 9? that is, a system that defines a very generic, very abstract and yet very simple means for inter-process communication? once you're holding a huge bag of code, you've already lost the game. all the different pieces are too intertwined, regardless of how well you encapsulate or w'ever within the language. IP, pipe streams and file object namespaces are good; concerning yourself w/ how you link some language into a C library is bad. managing application complexity by building a more complex language seems a tad misguided. in this day and age, w/ all the talk going into "emergent behaviors", complex systems, etc, i'm surprised to hear people arguing for monolithic designs that specify brittle internal procedure and process, rather than simple designs that define simple interactions. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 03:36:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 03:36:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14132 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 03:36:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14128 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 03:36:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 03:36:44 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2AD2219C15; Thu, 8 May 2003 14:36:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from magnum.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A93B419C1A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 14:35:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from robin.cooper.edu by magnum.cooper.edu with SMTP id AA10941 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>); Thu, 8 May 2003 14:39:52 -0400 Received: from localhost by robin.cooper.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA20828; Thu, 8 May 2003 14:35:38 -0400 From: Joel Salomon To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere In-Reply-To: <200305081814.h48IEr525849@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 14:35:38 -0400 (EDT) > > > C doesn't need a low-level string type, nor does it need exceptions; what > > > programmers who are looking for those things need to do is look for > > > another language. > > > > And what language is going to give it to them? C++? Ha. Ha ha ha. > > No, Limbo. From http://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/4e/limbo1.html: > We have added exception handling to the Limbo language, replacing > sys->rescue etc. This is intended to make it more straightforward to > write fault-tolerant subsystems. clip.. > The source changes to Limbo applications are relatively small, and the > result is tidier. Is there any data available on the exception handling in the new Limbo? (syntax, implementation, etc) I'd like to see what a "good" (in labs/vitanuova developer's view) implimentation of exceptions looks like. --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 03:41:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 03:41:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14166 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 03:41:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14162 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 03:41:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 03:41:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 97B9B19A02; Thu, 8 May 2003 14:41:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 5D0D919BE5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 14:40:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 22941 invoked from network); 8 May 2003 18:40:09 -0000 Received: from roke.cse.psu.edu (HELO bio.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.12.14) by galapagos.cse.psu.edu with SMTP; 8 May 2003 18:40:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 27854 invoked by uid 991); 8 May 2003 18:40:08 -0000 Message-ID: <20030508184008.27853.qmail@f.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere In-Reply-To: Message from Joel Salomon of "Thu, 08 May 2003 14:35:38 EDT." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 14:40:08 -0400 > No, Limbo. How do you write a generic sort function in Limbo? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 03:55:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 03:55:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14332 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 03:55:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14328 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 03:55:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 03:55:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 34CE319BFA; Thu, 8 May 2003 14:55:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE75B19BE5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 14:54:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 19:40:26 +0100 >>Is there any data available on the exception handling in the new Limbo? >>(syntax, implementation, etc) i was planning to post my thoughts about the topic, but i haven't had a chance to compose it yet. i agreed with rob's comments. yet i had Limbo extended to support exceptions in the language (they were already in the system). is there a contradiction? not really, but that's the bit i haven't had time to write yet! i'll try to find time to do it tomorrow. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 04:04:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 04:04:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14449 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 04:04:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14445 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 04:04:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 04:04:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 258D819BE3; Thu, 8 May 2003 15:04:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D8A2D19BE8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 15:03:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19542 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 15:03:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h48J3f526056 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 15:03:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305081903.h48J3f526056@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 08 May 2003 14:40:08 EDT." <20030508184008.27853.qmail@f.bio.cse.psu.edu> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 15:03:41 -0400 > > No, Limbo. > > How do you write a generic sort function in Limbo? I had fun once writing a set of modules that allowed me to plug in different sorting algorithms really easily at run time. But you're talking about what you're sorting, not how you're sorting it. I suspect games could be played with modules; maybe not, but the work on parametric polymorphism that's being implemented for consideration for Inferno 4th edition looks promising. - Dan C. http://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/4e/limbo2.html From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 04:08:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 04:08:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14503 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 04:08:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14499 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 04:08:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 04:08:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2EC5419C10; Thu, 8 May 2003 15:07:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E2DBA19C00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 15:06:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19887 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 15:06:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h48J62526081 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 15:06:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305081906.h48J62526081@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 08 May 2003 11:21:21 PDT." <20030508182121.GA28503@littlegreenmen.armory.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 15:06:02 -0400 > You guys are headed down the wrong track. > > The right way to program is with small modules written in several > different languages which are meant for specific purposes. Uhh, that's what I said, no? - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 04:22:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 04:22:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14707 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 04:22:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14703 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 04:22:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 04:22:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 71B6F19BF8; Thu, 8 May 2003 15:22:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3954719BEF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 15:21:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22175 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 15:21:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h48JLl526178 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 15:21:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305081921.h48JLl526178@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 08 May 2003 11:33:13 PDT." <20030508183313.GA26028@wilbur.25thandClement.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 15:21:47 -0400 > once you're holding a huge bag of code, you've already lost the game. > all the different pieces are too intertwined, regardless of how well > you encapsulate or w'ever within the language. Well, once you put the application logic into the domain of some network system, it could be argued that you're tied to that network system. This may or may not be beneficial. Sometimes that introduces complexity that shouldn't exist (consider all the Corba cruft under Unix et al, or how complex J2EE is; in both cases, you're trying to distributed things in some way so that the code isn't centralized). > IP, pipe streams and file object namespaces are good; concerning yourself w/ > how you link some language into a C library is bad. This is noble, but somewhat misguided. Russ was right; what do you do when you're supplied with a library that's in C only? You need some way to interface with it. Sure, you might build some sort of network server that provides a file hierarchy for accessing the functionality of the library, but sometimes (often) that's neither possible nor warranted; calling a C routine from C++ is really trivial. It'd be a step in the wrong direction to build a network server for it just so I could call a function. It's less trivial in Python, but still easy. > managing application complexity by building a more complex language > seems a tad misguided. Don't confuse managing complexity with eliminating complexity. Building exception handling packages for C is introducing complexity that doesn't exist when you use a language that supports exceptions natively. You aren't ``building'' a more complex language necessarily, but rather making use of a pre-existing language that provides functionality you'd have to otherwise build yourself. In the C example, you're trying to manage complexity. In the `other language' example, you're eliminating it. Similarly with things like generic dictionary objects; building hash tables in C is easy, but tedious and thus error prone. It adds complexity that wouldn't otherwise exist if I had a generic container object. > in this day and age, w/ all the talk going into "emergent behaviors", > complex systems, etc, i'm surprised to hear people arguing for monolithic > designs that specify brittle internal procedure and process, rather than > simple designs that define simple interactions. You can't make *everything* modular. Or, rather, you might be able to but it might not be the best idea. Consider the fmt library; you could define a network server just to handle I/O, and pass messages to it, but why? It's much easier and more intuitive to call print() and have it do the work itself. (Of course, in effect, the kernel acts kind of like a network server that does the real work). Or a more basic example, calculating a square root. Does it make sense to pass a floating point number over the network to a server that does that and then returns the result? Not really, unless you're doing something really specialized. Of course, the above two examples are *really* contrived, and I'd go so far as to say kind of stupid, but they illustrate a general idea: sometimes it's just not worth it to make things more modular than they have to be. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 04:50:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 04:50:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15126 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 04:50:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15122 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 04:50:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 04:50:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BEF6719B89; Thu, 8 May 2003 15:50:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BCBAC19C1B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 15:49:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8986775bc07178dcbeb4f12677ccf3aa@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <20030508184008.27853.qmail@f.bio.cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 20:52:23 +0100 > How do you write a generic sort function in Limbo? there are several ways, most of which would be considered too heavyweight for a simple sort, but which can be fine for larger operations when generic behaviour is required (channels and modules both provide different kinds of dynamic coupling). as dan says, the new parametric polymorphism will provide a more conventional way to do it: it's not *completely* generic (the polymorphism only works on ref adts), but fine for many purposes. to be honest, low level generic functionality like that doesn't seem to be actually used *that* often. (it's fairly unusual to need to sort more than one kind of thing in a given module). to be honest, where i've needed to sort something, i just paste in the following code: sort(a: array of T) { mergesort(a, array[len a] of T); } mergesort(a, b: array of T) { r := len a; if (r > 1) { m := (r-1)/2 + 1; mergesort(a[0:m], b[0:m]); mergesort(a[m:], b[m:]); b[0:] = a; for ((i, j, k) := (0, m, 0); i < m && j < r; k++) { if(greater(b[i], b[j])) a[k] = b[j++]; else a[k] = b[i++]; } if (i < m) a[k:] = b[i:m]; else if (j < r) a[k:] = b[j:r]; } } and define suitable values for T and greater(), e.g. T: type int; greater(a, b: int): int { return a>b; } the function itself is byte-for-byte identical with the other places it's used, and well debugged. since the actual code doesn't need to change at all, it's easily verified as being the same as that in other places (and easily searched for should a bug emerge. there are a few. i dislike cut&paste code in other circumstances, but this seems different (as the code itself doesn't change, and the interface is very narrow). maybe i'm hopelessly misguided! cheers, rog. PS. the other dynamic features of limbo mean *far* more to me in terms of writing re-usable, re-applicable and understandable, reasonable code than the lack of polymorphism. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 07:51:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 07:51:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17384 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 07:51:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17380 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 07:51:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 07:51:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B3F7519C00; Thu, 8 May 2003 18:51:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DF46119B9A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 18:50:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24860 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 18:50:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h48Mod527047 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 18:50:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305082250.h48Mod527047@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 08 May 2003 20:52:23 BST." <8986775bc07178dcbeb4f12677ccf3aa@vitanuova.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 18:50:39 -0400 > to be honest, where i've needed to sort something, i just paste in the > following code: > > [snip] > > and define suitable values for T and greater(), > e.g. > T: type int; > greater(a, b: int): int > { > return a>b; > } > > the function itself is byte-for-byte identical with the other places > it's used, and well debugged. > > since the actual code doesn't need to change at all, it's easily > verified as being the same as that in other places (and easily > searched for should a bug emerge. there are a few. > > i dislike cut&paste code in other circumstances, but this seems > different (as the code itself doesn't change, and the interface is > very narrow). maybe i'm hopelessly misguided! This is fine, but one question I have is why cut and paste instead of putting sort() and mergesort() into their own file and then including it after defining T and greater()? Just curious. - Dan C. 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------=_NextPart__..H_B_8B__43_C1B93L5D9LC-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 08:41:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 08:41:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18029 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 08:41:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18025 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 08:41:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 08:41:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB4D519C21; Thu, 8 May 2003 19:41:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0561219C21 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 19:40:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <200305082250.h48Mod527047@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 03:55:43 +0100 > This is fine, but one question I have is why cut and paste instead of > putting sort() and mergesort() into their own file and then including > it after defining T and greater()? Just curious. lack of surprises. if i see that a source file has been included, i have no idea what names the namespace has been polluted with. one thing that's particularly nice about limbo is that, with the necessary exception of module names, if i see a name referred to, i can find out what it refers to very quickly and surely in the local source file (defined locally, or explicitly imported from a module). the moment i start including external source code, i'm again awash in a sea of uncertainty. much better to explicitly include the code: it keeps the code dependencies as narrow as the module interfaces that have been included, which are easy to understand, well-defined and well-behaved (no callbacks, for example). whenever i've had to make significant changes to an interface that's used by many modules, the fact that all dependencies are explicitly defined, and all names explicitly declared has made life soooo much easier and less error-prone. it makes for code that is much more malleable and reusable (despite the apparent contradiction with Limbo being such a strongly typed language). sorry, this has veered way off topic! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 09:13:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 09:13:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19049 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 09:13:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19045 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 09:13:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 09:13:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C030819C02; Thu, 8 May 2003 20:13:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8703819A53 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 20:12:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 20:12:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h490CJ527486 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 20:12:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305090012.h490CJ527486@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 09 May 2003 03:55:43 BST." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 20:12:18 -0400 > > This is fine, but one question I have is why cut and paste instead of > > putting sort() and mergesort() into their own file and then including > > it after defining T and greater()? Just curious. > > lack of surprises. if i see that a source file has been included, i > have no idea what names the namespace has been polluted with. Granted, but as you noted yourself, this is a rather special case. Anyway, I was just curious. > sorry, this has veered way off topic! Indeed it has, but that was a great explanation. Thanks, Rog. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 09:14:16 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 09:14:16 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19082 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 09:14:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19078 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 09:14:15 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 09:14:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C1EAA19C2A; Thu, 8 May 2003 20:14:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.183]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 07CDE19C23 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 20:13:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-41-91.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.41.91 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 May 2003 00:13:09 -0000 Message-ID: <3EBB0067.6080903@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way References: <200305081726.h48HQ1525622@augusta.math.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 20:12:07 -0500 > > >All of that represents about 0% of the market. I'm not saying SMP is >bad, or that support for it should be abandoned, but one should >concentrate on where the biggest bang for the buck is. It's certainly >a valid question whether that's in the SMP arena, and it would be >intellectually dishonest to simply say, ``of course it is! Pixar uses >it!'' > It may represent 0% of the market today (check your figures), but, not in the near future. Besides, I'd rather be flexible enough to contract out to write the software for the 0% that will pay me 6 figures per hit, than concentrate on the other 99% of the market that will may me out 6 figures per year. Pixar was just an example of what a large group of people are actually becoming involved in. Think about how many animation groups alone are beginning to use the same techniques as Pixar. I think Lucas Light-and-whatever was actually using SMP clusters before Pixar. That may still be two examples, but, this is what trend analysis is all about. Looking at who is doing what, then, determining the most likely group of individuals to follow, and whether there is a market for it. If you want the biggest bang for the buck, it seems to me you should be looking towards future trends, not old ones. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 09:50:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 09:50:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20663 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 09:50:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20659 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 09:50:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 09:50:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 30B3A19C22; Thu, 8 May 2003 20:50:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D15DB19C01 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 20:49:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12595 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 20:49:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h490ne527735 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 20:49:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305090049.h490ne527735@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 08 May 2003 20:12:07 CDT." <3EBB0067.6080903@ameritech.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 20:49:40 -0400 > It may represent 0% of the market today (check your figures), but, > not in the near future. Besides, I'd rather be flexible enough to > contract out to write the software for the 0% that will pay me > 6 figures per hit, than concentrate on the other 99% of the market > that will may me out 6 figures per year. Pixar was just an > example of what a large group of people are actually becoming > involved in. Think about how many animation groups alone > are beginning to use the same techniques as Pixar. I think Lucas > Light-and-whatever was actually using SMP clusters before > Pixar. That may still be two examples, but, this is what trend > analysis is all about. Looking at who is doing what, then, > determining the most likely group of individuals to follow, and > whether there is a market for it. If you want the biggest bang > for the buck, it seems to me you should be looking towards future > trends, not old ones. You missed my point. There's nothing wrong with asking whether SMP is still relevant. See, that's the thing. The current trends seem to be *away* from SMP machines and towards clusters of single-CPU machines; I remember when The Abyss was made on clusters of multi-processor SGI Iris systems; Toy Story was then made on a cluster of multi-processor SPARCstation 20's; then Titanic was (partially) made on a cluster of single-CPU Alpha's running Linux. Maybe Pixar is using SMP machines because that's where the sweet spot is in terms of price/performance. But it's been that way in the past, and then it's changed. Whatever is happening now doesn't mean it will be that way in two years, or five. In other words, the future trend is likely to be uniprocessor machines connected by a really fast network, not big SMP machines connected by a fast network. See, for instance, the new blade systems being shipped by various vendors. Now, maybe I'm wrong about SMP versus uniprocessor machines, but my real point was that condeming someone for asking a question of relevance isn't a step in the right direction. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 10:08:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 10:08:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21448 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 10:08:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21444 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 10:08:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 10:08:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D0DEB19C20; Thu, 8 May 2003 21:08:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from magnum.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 21ED419C2B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 21:07:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from robin.cooper.edu by magnum.cooper.edu with SMTP id AA01054 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>); Thu, 8 May 2003 21:11:35 -0400 Received: from localhost by robin.cooper.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id VAA06247; Thu, 8 May 2003 21:07:20 -0400 From: Joel Salomon To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way In-Reply-To: <200305090049.h490ne527735@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 21:07:20 -0400 (EDT) On Thu, 8 May 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > The current trends seem to be *away* from SMP machines and towards > clusters of single-CPU machines Then why has Intel been pushing hyperthreading? (SMP on a chip) --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 10:14:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 10:14:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21707 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 10:14:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21703 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 10:14:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 10:14:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9427E19C2B; Thu, 8 May 2003 21:13:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 63AE519C25 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 21:12:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8f7f959101c16201a81884c7ffa3e205@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 18:12:40 -0700 This is a somewhat rambling discussion, but I'll throw in my 2 cents on several, perhaps related, topics. The conventional monolithic, one-machine-does-it-all `desktop' PC already seems like a throwback to 1960's mainframe (S/360) thinking (except that pre-XA 370s were too small to run Netscape!). Laptops, PDAs, ipaqs, ipods, and increasing use of wireless technologies suggest that `the future of the desktop PC' may not matter a great deal. 30 years ago it looked like we'd never be rid of the IBM 360/370 architecture and accompanying IBM software. It's still with us, but isn't the plague on computing it once was. 20 years ago, one could say ``All the world's a VAX'' with a straight face; no more. 15 years ago, one could say ``All the world's a Sun'' with a straight face; no more. All the world may look like an x86 PC today, but This Too Shall Pass. And that's ignoring the embedded-systems market: the software in your printer, router, firewall, wireless widget, and perhaps your car is almost certainly not Windows 2000 and the processor is likely a MIPS or ARM chip or 68000 ASIC, not an x86. So far, at least, in the history of computing, no single architecture dominates forever (it just seems that way). I'm not sure what advantage one could obtain from an `architecture-dependent' kernel. There might be a slight performance gain, but given the speed, and rate of increase, of modern processors, who cares? Wait a week or a month and you can buy the performance gain without changing any code. A kernel dedicated to a single architecture would likely be less clean than one intended for broader use, and the history of manufacturers' operating systems dedicated to particular architectures isn't encouraging; these systems tended to be strangely designed (to be polite) and lacking in function, which isn't too surprising, since they existed mainly to sell hardware, and so had to be just good enough to help sell machines. There are other reasons than raw computing power to want multiple processors. The one I like best is the ability to absorb load while remaining responsive. An MP terminal holds up under load. If you've ever used a Unix workstation running X, you've probably seen the machine ignore your mouse movements and keystrokes when it gets busy. Plan 9 terminals are less prone to this, but with an extra processor, it virtually never happens. MP cpu servers are pleasant places to do heavy work since they too degrade gracefully under load. Furthermore, the supposed complexity in Plan 9 due to support for multiprocessing seems to be mainly getting locking right, which is worth doing even with just one processor. I don't believe that we pay a huge cost in code complexity or performance for SMP support. Central file storage simplifies backup and retrieval. The more places you have files stored, the more care it takes to ensure that they are really getting backed up, and the more places you may have to look when you can't remember where you stored something. Of course, google now sells an appliance to index and search one's files... I suspect that programmer ability matters more than choice of language. I've been looking at an MP3 decoder. It's 8,000 non-comment lines of C, many of them duplicated (dup -t1 reports that 26% of the source is redundant). Functions ramble on for hundreds of lines. The code is littered with unexplained magic numbers. None of this is encouraged by C: functions are easy to write and cheap to call; enum or even #define provide easy ways to declare manifest constants. (For sheer humour value, though, one has to look to sendmail: ; funclen *.c | sort -nr | sed 20q 2627 main.c:152,2779 main() 2510 srvrsmtp.c:338,2848 smtp() 2301 deliver.c:1251,3552 deliver() 1468 readcf.c:2130,3598 setoption() 782 daemon.c:147,929 getrequests() 754 daemon.c:2010,2764 makeconnection() 746 map.c:4066,4812 ldapmap_parseargs() 712 deliver.c:70,782 sendall() 673 queue.c:3783,4456 readqf() 661 recipient.c:444,1105 recipient() 620 parseaddr.c:941,1561 rewrite() 590 savemail.c:760,1350 errbody() 588 queue.c:322,910 queueup() 583 collect.c:289,872 collect() 575 readcf.c:88,663 readcf() 571 mime.c:99,670 mime8to7() 538 deliver.c:4988,5526 mailfile() 533 milter.c:564,1097 milter_open() 513 queue.c:1738,2251 run_work_group() 502 deliver.c:4444,4946 putbody() ) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 10:20:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 10:20:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21884 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 10:20:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21880 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 10:20:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 10:20:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B24819C32; Thu, 8 May 2003 21:20:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.184]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 43E7F19C01 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 21:19:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-41-91.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.41.91 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 May 2003 01:19:04 -0000 Message-ID: <3EBB0FDA.4050609@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way References: <200305090049.h490ne527735@augusta.math.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 21:18:02 -0500 > > >You missed my point. There's nothing wrong with asking whether SMP is >still relevant. See, that's the thing. The current trends seem to be >*away* from SMP machines and towards clusters of single-CPU machines; I >remember when The Abyss was made on clusters of multi-processor SGI >Iris systems; Toy Story was then made on a cluster of multi-processor >SPARCstation 20's; then Titanic was (partially) made on a cluster of >single-CPU Alpha's running Linux. Maybe Pixar is using SMP machines >because that's where the sweet spot is in terms of price/performance. >But it's been that way in the past, and then it's changed. Whatever is >happening now doesn't mean it will be that way in two years, or five. >In other words, the future trend is likely to be uniprocessor machines >connected by a really fast network, not big SMP machines connected by a >fast network. See, for instance, the new blade systems being shipped >by various vendors. > Oh, I did miss what you were saying. Hopefully because I just woke up. I wasn't condemning Sam, I was just making the observation that SMP research is necessary for more than a few great reasons. Thats probably why I completely ignored your point about condemning someone for asking a question, because I didn't feel that I was. People totally have a right to ask any question they want. I also have a right to respond. I can understand the point of moving away from SMP to clusters of single CPU machines, simply because they're getting so much cheaper. However, SMP x86 is becoming cheaper, too. It might actually become cheaper to run 10 3CPU SMP machines versus 20 or 30 single CPU x86 machines. Talking about RISC price ranges isn't my best trait, but, when the Sun Blades came out, a Blade100 was still around $1,300 for the full package that included a 501mhz UltraSPARC processor. Knowing I can get a couple x86 machines for the same price (SMP or not), I might choose to skip out on the Sun. Besides, the Blades (Sun or otherwise) are really designed to be workstations, aren't they? If you're talking about what is happening now versus what will be in a few years from now, thats why we look at the trends in the research institutions and the trends in places doing groundbreaking work in their field. Find out what they need and what they use (or want to use), then look at trends in the public sector that may purport that these techniques go global, etc. Looking at places like Pixar and Lucas, not to mention the Yahoo/Google farms, etc, gives us a more-likely-candidate perception of what the future will look like. Thats why there are followers versus leaders. Most people end up doing what's worked for the people willing to try new things. That becomes trend. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 11:56:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 11:56:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25450 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 11:56:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25446 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 11:56:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 11:56:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5F5C719C36; Thu, 8 May 2003 22:56:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D52219C31 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 22:55:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h492tCfD011709 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 20:55:12 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h492tCIG006060 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 May 2003 20:55:12 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 20:53:33 -0600 (MDT) On Thu, 8 May 2003, Joel Salomon wrote: > On Thu, 8 May 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > > The current trends seem to be *away* from SMP machines and towards > > clusters of single-CPU machines > > Then why has Intel been pushing hyperthreading? (SMP on a chip) I wish somebody would tell me. The 1152-node MCR cluster has turned it off, our 1024-node cluster has turned it off, and a 400-node I know of has turned it off, and .... darn shame, as it seems like it ought to be a neat thing, but in practice it's not working out. An IBM study showed that hyperthreading is great for running chat rooms. Is that the market? ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 17:19:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 17:19:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7955 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 17:19:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7951 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 17:19:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 17:19:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C78ED19C38; Fri, 9 May 2003 04:19:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from priv-edtnes11-hme0.telusplanet.net (outbound03.telus.net [199.185.220.222]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E6B1B19A60 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 04:18:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([207.6.119.23]) by priv-edtnes11-hme0.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.17 201-253-122-126-117-20021021) with ESMTP id <20030509081822.NPGS20963.priv-edtnes11-hme0.telusplanet.net@localhost.localdomain> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 02:18:22 -0600 Received: (qmail 2167 invoked by uid 500); 9 May 2003 07:55:27 -0000 From: Taj Khattra To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way Message-ID: <20030509075527.GC957@localhost.localdomain> References: <3EB9A8EB.3070100@ameritech.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3EB9A8EB.3070100@ameritech.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 00:55:27 -0700 On Wed, May 07, 2003 at 07:46:35PM -0500, northern snowfall wrote: > > ... to gene analysis (that'd be great if we could > have an automated system to break down virii like SARS > fairly quickly with a cluster, don't you think...?) ....! > speaking of SARS, i believe a linux beowulf cluster was used to help map the genomic sequence of the SARS coronavirus. -taj From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 17:42:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 17:42:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8736 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 17:42:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8731 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 17:42:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 17:42:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 88D1919C39; Fri, 9 May 2003 04:42:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7680219A60 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 04:41:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19E3Mi-0001Kz-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 09 May 2003 09:36:28 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EBB29D8.7030200@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <3EB9E853.7040405@null.net>, <4bb7193815221f5e70d7548882f9109a@vitanuova.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 08:36:06 GMT rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > it's a perfectly good kind of data - EOF is only out of band if one > doesn't consider "not EOF" to be part of the normal getc return value. Well, I don't want to get into a debate about that; suffice it to say that "get next character" is, to me, a function that cannot be performed when there is no next character, thus something out of the ordinary has to occur, and making it occur in the data channel constitutes, to me, an in-band signal. Note that this design causes very real problems for portable C programming, because when sizeof(char)== sizeof(int) it is very likely that all-one bits is a valid data value *as well as* the EOF marker, so the program has to perform an additional feof() test that would not be necessary if the two kinds of information had been kept separate. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 17:44:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 17:44:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8793 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 17:44:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8789 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 17:44:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 17:44:36 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A4B4C19C34; Fri, 9 May 2003 04:43:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 38D9419C3A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 04:42:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19E3NG-0001ME-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 09 May 2003 09:37:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EBB2BE8.1020108@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200305090049.h490ne527735@augusta.math.psu.edu>, Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 08:36:33 GMT Joel Salomon wrote: > Then why has Intel been pushing hyperthreading? (SMP on a chip) My guess is that they need to keep introducing new products and convincing people to buy them. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 17:45:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 17:45:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8809 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 17:45:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8805 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 17:45:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 17:45:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 958E6199ED; Fri, 9 May 2003 04:43:17 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE42319A80 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 04:42:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19E3Mj-0001L5-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 09 May 2003 09:36:29 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EBB2A50.3000206@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <3EB37781.1030903@null.net>, <200305081711.h48HBv525515@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 08:36:20 GMT Dan Cross wrote: > Sounds like a good candidate for writing in C++ or a similar language. No, that was not an option. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 17:50:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 17:50:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8934 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 17:50:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8930 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 17:50:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 17:50:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 534DC19C35; Fri, 9 May 2003 04:50:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.185]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9BC4F19C25 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 04:49:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-41-91.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.41.91 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 May 2003 08:49:19 -0000 Message-ID: <3EBB7960.6030206@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way References: <3EB9A8EB.3070100@ameritech.net> <20030509075527.GC957@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 04:48:16 -0500 > > >speaking of SARS, i believe a linux beowulf cluster was used >to help map the genomic sequence of the SARS coronavirus. > Nice > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 18:10:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 18:10:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9552 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 18:10:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9548 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 18:10:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 18:10:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8ABA619A40; Fri, 9 May 2003 05:10:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from netscape.com (c3po.aoltw.net [64.236.137.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE9CD19A72 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 05:09:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yoda.mcom.com ([10.128.72.204]) by netscape.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id h49998n01005 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 02:09:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from will5510 ([10.128.74.235]) by yoda.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id HEM43600.SDV for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 09:09:06 +0000 Message-ID: <08af01c3160a$97e04fd0$eb4a800a@will5510> From: "will551" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <06ef01c31540$3227df70$eb4a800a@will5510> Subject: Re: [9fans] Tcl Now Available for Plan 9 - saturday MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 10:08:35 +0100 hi I will upload Tcl for Plan 9 saturday night didnt get a chance last night will let 9fans know will551 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 22:19:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 22:19:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15019 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 22:19:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15015 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 22:19:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 22:19:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4792E19C37; Fri, 9 May 2003 09:19:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2719D19A66 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 09:18:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <622b8580ff4fa7e12cb655bf19694fe8@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <3EBB29D8.7030200@null.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 14:21:25 +0100 DAGwyn@null.net: > when sizeof(char)== > sizeof(int) it is very likely that all-one bits is a valid > data value *as well as* the EOF marker don't most >8bit character encodings (including unicode) provide at least one code point to represent "not a character"? anyway, i'm not arguing about the design of getc. maybe it should have been int getc(FILE *f, char *c); filling in the character at c iff it returns 1. some of the plan 9 rune(2) functions work in this kind of way. however, i would argue that using exceptions for such a thing would be fairly unwieldy, and end up obfuscating what should be plain, straightforward code. exceptions are surprising things: they do not facilitate linear reading of the code; they should be kept for genuinely surprising conditions. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 23:32:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 23:32:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16286 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 23:32:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16282 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 23:32:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 23:32:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EF5ED19C3E; Fri, 9 May 2003 10:32:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D109819A70 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 10:31:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h49EV9fD029954 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 08:31:09 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h49EV7IG021288 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 08:31:09 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way In-Reply-To: <3EBB2BE8.1020108@null.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 08:29:27 -0600 (MDT) On Fri, 9 May 2003, Douglas A. Gwyn wrote: > Joel Salomon wrote: > > Then why has Intel been pushing hyperthreading? (SMP on a chip) > > My guess is that they need to keep introducing new products > and convincing people to buy them. It's hard to understand putting all the effort (enormous effort!) into hype-r-threading if it's not going to pay off. It is a serious engineering accomplishment, that's for sure. People keep wondering why it's there. Could there be some other reason? Oh, all right, here's a theory for all you conspiracy buffs. Rumors continue to abound that there is a 'hidden MSR' on the Xeon and later P4s that turns it into Intel's version of the K8. You see it in the trade rags all the time. Where is the Magic Conspiracy MSR? There are definitely undocumented MSRs, and on P3 and later CPUs intel made them very hard to find by not throwing an exception when you accessed an invalid MSR -- which makes it very hard to find the valid ones in the 2^32 MSR space. I once had to use a PII to find all the valid MSRs since the P3 just won't tell you. (the errata is amusing: "P3 won't cause exception on access to invalid MSR". User workaround: "don't access invalid MSR". Intel plans to fix: "No plans to fix this problem"). Now, starting from this crazy theory, what happens to all the hype-r-threading hardware when you set the Magic Conspiracy Bit? Simple, it all lines up to build 64-bit ALUs. Or as somebody joked, "propagate the carry from one half of hyperthreading to the other". The two process contexts on the CPU? One becomes a 32-bit context, one becomes a 64-bit context. Told you it was crazy. But it's funny speculation. And no, I have zero data to prove or disprove this -- it's more a lunchtime table napkin exercise as we tried to figure out why we had 2048 P4s with hype-r-threading. I don't think we saved the napkin. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 9 23:43:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 9 23:43:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16443 invoked by uid 1020); 9 May 2003 23:43:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16439 invoked from network); 9 May 2003 23:43:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 May 2003 23:43:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 90E4319C42; Fri, 9 May 2003 10:43:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.184]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 72CC819C25 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 10:42:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-41-91.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.41.91 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 May 2003 14:42:13 -0000 Message-ID: <3EBBCC12.5090100@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 10:41:06 -0500 > > >The two process contexts on the CPU? One becomes a 32-bit context, one >becomes a 64-bit context. > heh > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 10 00:42:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 10 00:42:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17274 invoked by uid 1020); 10 May 2003 00:42:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17270 invoked from network); 10 May 2003 00:42:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 May 2003 00:42:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 61EFE19C33; Fri, 9 May 2003 11:42:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9F7FD19C25 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 11:41:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19E9xd-0007Gu-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 09 May 2003 16:39:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1rio_Amado_Alves?= Message-ID: <4a4de33a.0305090734.8277dd8@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] Ada for Plan9 yet? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 15:38:44 GMT I'm considering installing Plan 9. However I would like to know in advance if it supports the Ada language, notably the GNAT system (AdaPower.Com is currently the starting point for information on Ada and GNAT). After browsing the archives I found some 2-year old (difficult to follow) threads about this. They seem to indicate a negative answer. But maybe I misunderstood, or things have evolved since then. Thanks a lot, --MAA From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 10 01:23:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 10 01:23:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17684 invoked by uid 1020); 10 May 2003 01:23:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17680 invoked from network); 10 May 2003 01:23:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 May 2003 01:23:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8AB4C19C46; Fri, 9 May 2003 12:23:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from minster.cs.york.ac.uk (minster.cs.york.ac.uk [144.32.40.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 39B8C19C43 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 12:22:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pc118 ([144.32.41.119] helo=pc118.cs.york.ac.uk ident=1530) by minster.cs.york.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 19EAb0-0006Rl-00; Fri, 09 May 2003 17:19:42 +0100 Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere From: John Murdie To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: john@cs.york.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <622b8580ff4fa7e12cb655bf19694fe8@vitanuova.com> References: <622b8580ff4fa7e12cb655bf19694fe8@vitanuova.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Message-Id: <1052497182.736.14.camel@pc118> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanner: exiscan *19EAb0-0006Rl-00*EXZYK3AffiI* Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 09 May 2003 17:19:42 +0100 On Fri, 2003-05-09 at 14:21, rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > DAGwyn@null.net: > > when sizeof(char)== > > sizeof(int) it is very likely that all-one bits is a valid > > data value *as well as* the EOF marker > > don't most >8bit character encodings (including unicode) provide at > least one code point to represent "not a character"? > > anyway, i'm not arguing about the design of getc. maybe it should > have been > > int getc(FILE *f, char *c); > > filling in the character at c iff it returns 1. some of the plan 9 > rune(2) functions work in this kind of way. > > however, i would argue that using exceptions for such a thing would be > fairly unwieldy, and end up obfuscating what should be plain, > straightforward code. > > exceptions are surprising things: they do not facilitate linear > reading of the code; they should be kept for genuinely surprising > conditions. And then what should one do? Suppose that a "genuinely surprising condition" occurs when a launch vehicle is a few tens of seconds off the ground; just what should the program do? I agree with those here that hold the opinion that exceptions are no substitute for a well-thought-out and well-notated program (we used to call it "structured programming"). Need error handling obscure the "all's well" logic of the program? John A. Murdie Department of Computer Science University of York UK From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 10 01:47:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 10 01:47:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17907 invoked by uid 1020); 10 May 2003 01:47:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17902 invoked from network); 10 May 2003 01:47:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 May 2003 01:47:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A562519C48; Fri, 9 May 2003 12:47:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C4D919C41 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 12:47:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15041 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 12:46:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h49Gks501287 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 12:46:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305091646.h49Gks501287@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 09 May 2003 14:21:25 BST." <622b8580ff4fa7e12cb655bf19694fe8@vitanuova.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 12:46:54 -0400 > exceptions are surprising things: they do not facilitate linear > reading of the code; they should be kept for genuinely surprising > conditions. I think this kind of depends on the syntax. I once saw a proposed syntax for Limbo (due to Michael Baldwin, inspired by Icon, perhaps) that I thought was really great; it looked something like: thing = function(foo, bar, baz); ! { exception handler, note bang } The ability to station an exception handler after a statement using the bang syntax gave one the `feeling' of programming without exceptions, but also allowed one to move the error handling to a potentially more appropriate place. You could write code like: if (a == SYMBOLIC_CONSTANT) { str := string arr; b := a / 2; mod = load Mod Mod->PATH; } ! { sys->print("Something bad happened.\n"); } It was very unintrusive, and I liked it a lot. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 10 02:26:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 10 02:26:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18276 invoked by uid 1020); 10 May 2003 02:26:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18272 invoked from network); 10 May 2003 02:26:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 May 2003 02:26:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 93145199B3; Fri, 9 May 2003 13:26:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.185]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id DAAB119C43 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 13:25:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-41-91.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.41.91 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 May 2003 17:25:14 -0000 Message-ID: <3EBBF24B.3020508@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: dbailey27@ameritech.net Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere References: <622b8580ff4fa7e12cb655bf19694fe8@vitanuova.com> <1052497182.736.14.camel@pc118> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 13:24:11 -0500 > > >And then what should one do? Suppose that a "genuinely surprising >condition" occurs when a launch vehicle is a few tens of seconds off the >ground; just what should the program do? > Hopefully, the programmer would have enough sense to see this coming? The point of smart design is to facilitate the unexpected, I don't think that means exceptions are the answer. Certainly, this argument is slightly dramatic, wouldn't you agree, John? When I look at exceptions in C, I think mainly of sigjmp (and to a lesser extent, goto). Though, this still doesn't eradicate the problem that manfiested the exception. A good example is the recent exploit I wrote for sendmail version 8.12.8. Since version 8.12.8, itself, emulated an exception on detection of invalid lengths in the prescan() function, the exploitation technique for versions <8.12.8 was moot, since prescan() never returned. Instead, a sigjmp_buf was used to reconstruct the execution environment as it would have looked well before the call to prescan(). However, I noticed that certain code paths to prescan() allocated a small enough amount of stack for me to reach the actual sigjmp_buf. On UNIX, the first address stored in a sigjmp_buf is the EIP to be entered on longjmp-and-friends. Able to overwrite this EIP with values that would redirect code execution (still in the valid code segment) to a place that would then create a secondary vuln: e.g. assembly code used to call (*fp->{read, ... })(... mov (0x44)%ebx, %eax call *%eax Thus, in very limited situations, I was still able to get my malicious code, pumped in from the network, run. This situation is a great example of a "genuinely surprising condition", and the writers did a good job to eradicate the easier frame-pointer-overwrite technique. However, I was still able to assert control of the target. In a more volatile situation (launch vehicle?) is this good enough? This is what makes me think that exception handlers are still secondary to forcing our developers to take the time to think about the repercussions of their work: whether it be an addendum, redesign, fresh write, etc. Well designed code can still be flexible in all given situations, even the unexpected. However, implementing exceptions simply because you *think* that might make things better (as opposed to taking a look at the big picture) might just change the scope of the problem. Don From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 10 04:03:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 10 04:03:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19073 invoked by uid 1020); 10 May 2003 04:03:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19069 invoked from network); 10 May 2003 04:03:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 May 2003 04:03:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D78B19A0B; Fri, 9 May 2003 15:03:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr9.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CB95219A82 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 15:02:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr9.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id PEY08151; Fri, 9 May 2003 15:01:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (m211.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.211]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFU40515; Fri, 9 May 2003 15:01:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000701c3165c$e9890820$d3944251@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030502174212.GA11412@epaphras.inhouse.cnm-vra.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Linksys Instant Wireless MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 08:47:33 +0200 sounds like PCI woe ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 10 04:03:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 10 04:03:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19082 invoked by uid 1020); 10 May 2003 04:03:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19078 invoked from network); 10 May 2003 04:03:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 May 2003 04:03:46 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0414919A8F; Fri, 9 May 2003 15:03:19 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr9.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1220019A82 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 15:02:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr9.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id PEY08155; Fri, 9 May 2003 15:01:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (m211.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.211]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFU40518; Fri, 9 May 2003 15:01:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000801c3165c$ea0033f0$d3944251@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200305040249.h442nd3h004525@cadence.glidepath.org> Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Advantages summary MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 08:51:42 +0200 Not only is UNIX dead, but it's starting to smell really bad -- rob [~1991] From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 10 04:11:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 10 04:11:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19191 invoked by uid 1020); 10 May 2003 04:11:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19187 invoked from network); 10 May 2003 04:11:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 May 2003 04:11:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E0AC519A91; Fri, 9 May 2003 15:11:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr8.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6F54119980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 15:10:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr8.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id AKZ05121; Fri, 9 May 2003 15:01:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (m211.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.211]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFU40502; Fri, 9 May 2003 15:01:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000401c3165c$e8299f30$d3944251@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: , <3EB1E0F1.6060908@null.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 08:41:31 +0200 From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" > Done right, the main advantages are: > > (a) uniform, tested error handling instead of ad-hoc > (b) ensures reasonable default when user neglects to > deal with the possibility of failre > (c) no need for explicit tests of function error > returns > > Basically, it's a way to impose order on chaos. if 'done right'. i'm not sure 'C' needs it. error handling in 'C' is a nightmare and most code gets it wrong. i want 'C' to remain a powerful tool that does _exactly_ what i tell it to do; a Gerber Stilletto Backup knife -- the thing is damn dangerous, but it does _exactly_ what i want it to do. user mode code should not be written in 'C' -- choose a better tool for the job, err limbo anyone? 'C' should only be used on embedded systems, such as the kernel. i can code my own exceptions trivially, unlike some of the hideously complex and twisted maze of non local gotos, oops exceptions, which various other 'programming languages' get wrong. strings are a real pain in 'C' so i wrote a library for 'infinite' strings; type a buncha extra characters and you get no buffer overflows and when you run out of memory the library spits an error message and calls exit(2) -- end of story. just obey: for (p = m; *p != '\0': p++) ... i don't think it's on-line anymore and given i'm at: 33V UE 29764 MGRS 00890 WGS 84 i can't check it out, but it is spinning on this local disk; a 256k bundle [which it is a small part of] is just too big to post to the list. give me IP (sic) or give me death ... -- The Beretta 92FS -- don't leave home without it ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 10 04:12:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 10 04:12:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19199 invoked by uid 1020); 10 May 2003 04:12:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19195 invoked from network); 10 May 2003 04:12:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 May 2003 04:12:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E168419A86; Fri, 9 May 2003 15:12:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr8.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ABE2419999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 15:11:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr8.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id AKZ05128; Fri, 9 May 2003 15:01:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (m211.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.211]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFU40510; Fri, 9 May 2003 15:01:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000601c3165c$e91362f0$d3944251@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <2c48f76cc19c912eb71595a28defda34@mightycheese.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 08:45:53 +0200 From: "rob pike, esq." > i'm not a fan of exceptions. good programming > can trump them every time; bad exception handling > can destroy a program. they're an interesting idea > but i judge them a failure. sounds like a 'class 1 [dis]agreement' to me ... -- The Beretta 92FS -- don't leave home without it ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 10 04:15:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 10 04:15:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19242 invoked by uid 1020); 10 May 2003 04:15:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19238 invoked from network); 10 May 2003 04:15:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 May 2003 04:15:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EF6BB19C43; Fri, 9 May 2003 15:15:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr7.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5BCF519A90 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 15:14:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr7.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id OVK07931; Fri, 9 May 2003 15:14:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFU43353; Fri, 9 May 2003 15:13:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002401c3165f$32bc20c0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200305081704.h48H4s525418@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 21:14:21 +0200 > > > Ken and Rob thought up the idea of building everything around a > > > single file system protocol. 9p looks pretty similar to the sam/samterm protocol and that's been 'round for a _very long time_ ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 10 04:18:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 10 04:18:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19265 invoked by uid 1020); 10 May 2003 04:18:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19261 invoked from network); 10 May 2003 04:18:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 May 2003 04:18:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 32E6519A96; Fri, 9 May 2003 15:18:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr8.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 77F8019A84 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 15:17:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr8.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id AKZ05133; Fri, 9 May 2003 15:01:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (m211.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.211]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFU40526; Fri, 9 May 2003 15:01:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000a01c3165c$eaeeb2a0$d3944251@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030507053411.GZ36080@cassie.foobarbaz.net> <20030507054149.GA36080@cassie.foobarbaz.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 09:30:01 +0200 Christopher Nielsen" > Doh! I should know that bit fields aren't portable. it's worse than that, a 32 bit int access on a 16 bit device register _may_ get 'optimised' into an 'extract field' instruction which then causes a kernel mode fault. iirc the 8th Ed TU16 driver ... 750/780 porting issue. -- The Beretta 92FS -- don't leave home without it ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 10 04:54:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 10 04:54:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19790 invoked by uid 1020); 10 May 2003 04:54:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19786 invoked from network); 10 May 2003 04:54:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 May 2003 04:54:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC72419C45; Fri, 9 May 2003 15:54:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr8.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BD76219A93 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 15:53:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr8.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id AKZ12441; Fri, 9 May 2003 15:52:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFU51931; Fri, 9 May 2003 15:52:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <015201c31664$95dc76a0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3EB9A8EB.3070100@ameritech.net> <20030509075527.GC957@localhost.localdomain> <3EBB7960.6030206@ameritech.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 21:52:55 +0200 > >speaking of SARS, i believe a linux beowulf cluster was used > >to help map the genomic sequence of the SARS coronavirus. > > > Nice err, isn't this a retro-virus that mutates? as soon as i get a spare nanosecond i'm gonna check out what the CDC have to say about it. all this noise on the news and _no-one_ has declared the 'vector' ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 10 05:25:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 10 05:25:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20272 invoked by uid 1020); 10 May 2003 05:25:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20268 invoked from network); 10 May 2003 05:25:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 May 2003 05:25:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D258019AA2; Fri, 9 May 2003 16:25:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8D31419A8B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 16:24:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h49KONfD006278 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 14:24:23 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h49KONIG001382 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 14:24:23 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems In-Reply-To: <000a01c3165c$eaeeb2a0$d3944251@SOMA> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 14:22:43 -0600 (MDT) On Thu, 8 May 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > it's worse than that, a 32 bit int access on a 16 bit device register _may_ > get 'optimised' into an 'extract field' instruction which then causes a kernel > mode fault. iirc the 8th Ed TU16 driver ... 750/780 porting issue. yes, the whole bitfield thing is a total botch when it cames to real hardware. Truly bad things happen. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 10 05:39:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 10 05:39:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20477 invoked by uid 1020); 10 May 2003 05:39:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20473 invoked from network); 10 May 2003 05:39:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 May 2003 05:39:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 33F1319C4C; Fri, 9 May 2003 16:39:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from wintermute.cse.psu.edu (wintermute.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.5]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5F1C419A99 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 16:38:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 1-110.mganm700-3.telepar.net.br (1-110.mganm700-3.telepar.net.br [200.181.212.110]) by wintermute.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server (Backup MX)) with SMTP id C33DD73CBB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 16:38:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from olg.com ([148.77.237.98]) by pinehurst.net (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id 10024 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 15:36:43 -0500 Received: from [66.170.67.60] by web9902.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 9 May 2003 15:36:41 -0500 From: "Tatiana" To: "" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_7C9341A6.002041E6" Subject: [9fans] Kaylee- Girls with Horses 2663131636 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 15:36:36 -0500 ------=_NextPart_000_000D_7C9341A6.002041E6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_7C9341A6.002041E6" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PEhUTUw+DQo8IU1hcnRoYT48IUthcmE+PCFMZWFoPjwhWXVrYSA+PCFSaW5hPjwhaGV5IDsp PjwhQXNobGV5PjwhU2hhbmlhPjwhVmljdG9yaWE+PCFBYmlnYWlsPjwhQ2Fzc2lkeT48IUhv d2R5PjwhTGluZHNleT48IVdoeSBkaWQgc2hlIGRvIGl0Pz4NCjxIRUFEPg0KPCFBc2hsZXk+ DQo8VElUTEU+UkE8IUFsZWphbmRyYT5XIEZBPCFSYWNoZWw+Uk0gU0U8IUt5cmE+WDwvVElU TEU+DQo8IUFteT4NCjxNRVRBIGh0dHAtZXF1aXY9Q29udGVudC1UeXBlIGNvbnRlbnQ9InRl eHQvaHRtbDsgY2hhcnNldD1pc28tODg1OS0xIj4NCjwhRm9yZ2V0IGl0PjwhUmViZWNjYT48 IVN5ZG5leT48IUhhbGV5Pg0KPC9IRUFEPg0KPHAgYWxpZ249ImNlbnRlciI+PGEgaHJlZj0i aHR0cDovLzE5MzE5MzA3MDYxMDIzM0B3d3cuYWRsdG1haWxzLm5ldC9mYXJtLmh0bWwiPg0K PGltZyBzcmM9Imh0dHA6Ly8xMDIzOTMwNzExMzExODlAd3d3LmFkbHRtYWlscy5uZXQvcmF3 LmdpZiIgd2lkdGg9IjQ2OCIgaGVpZ2h0PSI2MCI+PC9hPg0KPGJvZHk+PCFOYXRzdW1pID48 IUJyaXR0bmV5PjwhV2hhdHMgdXA/PjwhQ3J5c3RhbD4NCjxicj4NCjxicj4NCjxocj4NCjxw PiA8L3A+DQo8YnI+DQo8YnI+PCFZdXA+DQo8YnI+PCFDeW50aGlhPg0KPGJyPjwhaGV5IDsp Pg0KPGJyPjwhTGF1cmE+DQo8YnI+PCFKYWRlPg0KPGJyPjwhTmF0YWxpZT4NCjxhIGhyZWY9 Imh0dHA6Ly8yOTM1Mjg4ODAyODQzMUB3d3cuYWRsdG1haWxzLm5ldC91LnBocD9pZD05ZmFu c0Bjc2UucHN1LmVkdSI+UmU8IVNoYW5pYT5tbzwhVGhpcyBpcyB0aGUgYmVzdC4+dmUgTTwh RGlkIHlvdSBkbyBpdD8+ZQ0KPC9CT0RZPjwvSFRNTD4= ------=_NextPart_000_000D_7C9341A6.002041E6-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 10 05:48:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 10 05:48:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20531 invoked by uid 1020); 10 May 2003 05:48:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20527 invoked from network); 10 May 2003 05:48:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 May 2003 05:48:38 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C4F0F19A8B; Fri, 9 May 2003 16:48:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0BF1119C25 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 16:47:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <56f7c037f06ab70eabf50f18dd7ab8b1@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way In-Reply-To: <015201c31664$95dc76a0$e3944251@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-dzbmmbvcspgywiduxnavphsbpq" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 16:47:17 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-dzbmmbvcspgywiduxnavphsbpq Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit toilet seats - just hover --upas-dzbmmbvcspgywiduxnavphsbpq Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri May 9 15:54:24 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Fri May 9 15:54:21 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5681319A99; Fri, 9 May 2003 15:54:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr8.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BD76219A93 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 15:53:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr8.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id AKZ12441; Fri, 9 May 2003 15:52:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFU51931; Fri, 9 May 2003 15:52:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <015201c31664$95dc76a0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3EB9A8EB.3070100@ameritech.net> <20030509075527.GC957@localhost.localdomain> <3EBB7960.6030206@ameritech.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 21:52:55 +0200 > >speaking of SARS, i believe a linux beowulf cluster was used > >to help map the genomic sequence of the SARS coronavirus. > > > Nice err, isn't this a retro-virus that mutates? as soon as i get a spare nanosecond i'm gonna check out what the CDC have to say about it. all this noise on the news and _no-one_ has declared the 'vector' ... --upas-dzbmmbvcspgywiduxnavphsbpq-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 10 06:10:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 10 06:10:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20783 invoked by uid 1020); 10 May 2003 06:10:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20779 invoked from network); 10 May 2003 06:10:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 May 2003 06:10:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 65FB719C51; Fri, 9 May 2003 17:10:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 64E9119C4A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 17:09:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3d7b84cbe306c920a4c26688a257ceaa@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 14:09:26 -0700 These two are from memory, since grep hasn't turned up the sources (it's time to fully index all my files, I guess) and neither one is in the fortunes file: Bit-fields are a botch and a blemish. - Dennis Ritchie (possibly from a Usenix conference) Only children and idiots use bit-fields. - Rob Pike From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 10 06:18:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 10 06:18:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20849 invoked by uid 1020); 10 May 2003 06:18:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20845 invoked from network); 10 May 2003 06:18:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 May 2003 06:18:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6EAD319C55; Fri, 9 May 2003 17:18:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail00.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net (mail00.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net [159.134.118.16]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8DF3119A84 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 17:17:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 69234 messnum 666921 invoked from network[159.134.229.177/p229-177.as1.tre.dublin.eircom.net]); 9 May 2003 21:17:34 -0000 Received: from p229-177.as1.tre.dublin.eircom.net (HELO iol.ie) (159.134.229.177) by mail00.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net (qp 69234) with SMTP; 9 May 2003 21:17:34 -0000 Message-ID: <3EBC1A90.9DF314C@iol.ie> From: will551 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] new Tcl for Plan 9 uploaded Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 22:16:01 +0100 hi Tcl8.3.5 for Plan 9 now upload. CRC error fixed. enjoy will551 -- ------------------------------------------------------------ (,_ ,_, _,) /]\`-._( )_.-'/]\ Email: will551@iol.ie / ] \`-'/ \'-`/ ] \ /___].-'`-\_/-`'-.]__\ ------------------------------------------------------------ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 10 08:30:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 10 08:30:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22209 invoked by uid 1020); 10 May 2003 08:30:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22205 invoked from network); 10 May 2003 08:30:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 May 2003 08:30:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E95E19C5D; Fri, 9 May 2003 19:30:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A992E19C53 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 19:29:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 28522 invoked by uid 991); 9 May 2003 23:29:47 -0000 Message-ID: <20030509232947.28521.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems In-Reply-To: Message from Geoff Collyer of "Fri, 09 May 2003 14:09:26 PDT." <3d7b84cbe306c920a4c26688a257ceaa@collyer.net> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 19:29:47 -0400 | These two are from memory, since grep hasn't turned up the sources | (it's time to fully index all my files, I guess) and neither one is in | the fortunes file: The best one was something like: I'll use bit-fields before I use Plan 9! - Brian Kernighan From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 10 09:14:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 10 09:14:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23020 invoked by uid 1020); 10 May 2003 09:14:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23016 invoked from network); 10 May 2003 09:14:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 May 2003 09:14:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D229219C5B; Fri, 9 May 2003 20:14:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9BD9A19A33 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 20:13:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8d3e0c584088d47d3284553b4b27d5fd@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 20:13:53 -0400 >From: Scott Schwartz >The best one was something like: > I'll use bit-fields before I use Plan 9! - Brian Kernighan Trust in the grep Scott: % grep bit /sys/games/lib/fortunes|grep field I'd use plan 9 before i'd use bitfields -- pjw From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 10 09:23:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 10 09:23:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23395 invoked by uid 1020); 10 May 2003 09:23:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23391 invoked from network); 10 May 2003 09:23:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 May 2003 09:23:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0E50B19C5C; Fri, 9 May 2003 20:23:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C03C019C50 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 20:22:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 28698 invoked by uid 991); 10 May 2003 00:22:00 -0000 Message-ID: <20030510002200.28697.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems In-Reply-To: Message from David Presotto of "Fri, 09 May 2003 20:13:53 EDT." <8d3e0c584088d47d3284553b4b27d5fd@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 20:22:00 -0400 | Trust in the grep Scott: Oops. Sorry for the misquote. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 10 11:55:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 10 11:55:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27992 invoked by uid 1020); 10 May 2003 11:55:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27988 invoked from network); 10 May 2003 11:55:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 May 2003 11:55:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DBB2819A19; Fri, 9 May 2003 22:55:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr9.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BA5931999B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 22:54:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr9.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id PEY59145; Fri, 9 May 2003 22:54:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFV12349; Fri, 9 May 2003 22:54:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001101c3169f$87a8bea0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 04:54:51 +0200 From: "ron minnich" > yes, the whole bitfield thing is a total botch when it cames to real > hardware. Truly bad things happen. they did; john mackin & i fixed 'em [sending the fixes to 1127] -- ugly ... extract field instructions just didn't work on the 780's 16 bit UBA device registers. don't even get me started on the 'bitmap of free/used ram' on 32V ... bonus points: what (and how much) did the 780 set to zero on boot? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 10 11:57:15 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 10 11:57:15 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28042 invoked by uid 1020); 10 May 2003 11:57:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28038 invoked from network); 10 May 2003 11:57:14 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 May 2003 11:57:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A776B19A77; Fri, 9 May 2003 22:57:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr8.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4FDF319981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 22:56:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr8.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id AKZ56216; Fri, 9 May 2003 22:56:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFV12497; Fri, 9 May 2003 22:56:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002501c3169f$cf757b60$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <56f7c037f06ab70eabf50f18dd7ab8b1@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 04:56:52 +0200 > toilet seats - just hover not autorotate? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 10 13:06:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 10 13:06:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29833 invoked by uid 1020); 10 May 2003 13:06:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29829 invoked from network); 10 May 2003 13:06:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 May 2003 13:06:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8983419A25; Sat, 10 May 2003 00:06:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.180]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3B0D019A0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 May 2003 00:05:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-18-210.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.18.210 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 May 2003 04:05:32 -0000 Message-ID: <3EBC885D.4010403@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems References: <001101c3169f$87a8bea0$e3944251@insultant.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 00:04:29 -0500 > > >they did; john mackin & i fixed 'em [sending the fixes to 1127] -- ugly ... > 1127. thats too weird. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 10 13:12:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 10 13:12:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29927 invoked by uid 1020); 10 May 2003 13:12:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29923 invoked from network); 10 May 2003 13:12:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 May 2003 13:12:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3F28A19A0C; Sat, 10 May 2003 00:12:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr8.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 62E9A19A8C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 May 2003 00:11:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr8.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id AKZ60114; Sat, 10 May 2003 00:11:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFV18190; Sat, 10 May 2003 00:11:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <008a01c316aa$44630fa0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <001101c3169f$87a8bea0$e3944251@insultant.net> <3EBC885D.4010403@ameritech.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 06:11:43 +0200 From: "northern snowfall" > 1127. thats too weird. 11271 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 10 13:45:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 10 13:45:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30574 invoked by uid 1020); 10 May 2003 13:45:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30570 invoked from network); 10 May 2003 13:45:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 May 2003 13:45:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C61CC19AAB; Sat, 10 May 2003 00:45:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B22B919A7B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 May 2003 00:44:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4A4iOpO017321 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 21:44:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: <8d3e0c584088d47d3284553b4b27d5fd@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 21:49:59 -0700 > I'd use plan 9 before i'd use bitfields -- pjw Is this why Plan9 uses pjw as the catchall glyph? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 10 13:53:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 10 13:53:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30724 invoked by uid 1020); 10 May 2003 13:53:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30719 invoked from network); 10 May 2003 13:53:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 May 2003 13:53:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BBE8219C60; Sat, 10 May 2003 00:53:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr7.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 784C619BB2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 May 2003 00:52:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr7.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id OVK62950; Sat, 10 May 2003 00:52:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFV21242; Sat, 10 May 2003 00:52:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <009901c316af$fce59ca0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 06:52:40 +0200 > Is this why Plan9 uses pjw as the catchall glyph? those who forget their history are doomed to repeat it ... ever seen the pjw labs management hierarchy diagram? or the t-shirt, or the tower, or the stolen tower template, or the thief, or the accused thief? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 10 14:15:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 10 14:15:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31166 invoked by uid 1020); 10 May 2003 14:15:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31162 invoked from network); 10 May 2003 14:15:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 May 2003 14:15:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B159719C68; Sat, 10 May 2003 01:15:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CD66219C49 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 May 2003 01:14:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4A5EUpO019439 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 May 2003 22:14:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <573e54590b1fdc16dd51151f22ab69d8@centurytel.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: <009901c316af$fce59ca0$e3944251@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 22:20:05 -0700 > those who forget their history are doomed to repeat it ... This reminds me, was there or is there a Bell-Labs historian? I would think some of the stories would make an interesting history book. The exciting ones, of course, not the belly-button-lint-picking ones ☺ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 10 14:19:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 10 14:19:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31268 invoked by uid 1020); 10 May 2003 14:19:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31264 invoked from network); 10 May 2003 14:19:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 May 2003 14:19:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 972BE19C69; Sat, 10 May 2003 01:19:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr9.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BC39919A8C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 May 2003 01:18:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr9.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id PEY66591; Sat, 10 May 2003 01:18:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFV23167; Sat, 10 May 2003 01:18:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00a101c316b3$b6121020$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <573e54590b1fdc16dd51151f22ab69d8@centurytel.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 07:19:19 +0200 > This reminds me, was there or is there a Bell-Labs historian? talk to jmk ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 10 14:26:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 10 14:26:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31369 invoked by uid 1020); 10 May 2003 14:26:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31365 invoked from network); 10 May 2003 14:26:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 May 2003 14:26:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 24E2C19C65; Sat, 10 May 2003 01:26:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz (210-86-15-134.ipnets.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.134]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8C72819C65 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 May 2003 01:25:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [210.54.206.95] by pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20030510052520.EPZW11784.pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.54.206.95]> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 May 2003 17:25:20 +1200 X-Sender: xtr17008101@pop3.xtra.co.nz (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Andrew Simmons Subject: [9fans] (no subject) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 17:24:08 +1200 I wasn't going to mention this here, but since Cardinal Presotto raised the topic of toilet seats (and I hope he remembers to put it down again), has anyone seen this, and is it for real? http://www.microsoft.com/uk/press/content/presscentre/releases/2003/05/PR03049.a sp If real, it would tend to support the view I vaguely recall the blessed pike expressing, that the innovation in systems software these days comes from Microsoft. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 10 16:12:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 10 16:12:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 650 invoked by uid 1020); 10 May 2003 16:12:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 646 invoked from network); 10 May 2003 16:12:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 May 2003 16:12:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7657819C78; Sat, 10 May 2003 03:12:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 178CF19AA1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 May 2003 03:11:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <63fa9456b6bb1a16a137a4834fd83361@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dennis Ritchie To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems In-Reply-To: <009901c316af$fce59ca0$e3944251@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 03:11:50 -0400 >> Is this why Plan9 uses pjw as the catchall glyph? > those who forget their history are doomed to repeat it ... > ever seen the pjw labs management hierarchy diagram? > or the t-shirt, or the tower, or the stolen tower template, or the thief, or the > accused thief? cf. http://spinroot.com/pico/pjw.html Dennis From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 11 01:54:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 11 01:54:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8701 invoked by uid 1020); 11 May 2003 01:54:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8697 invoked from network); 11 May 2003 01:54:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 May 2003 01:54:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9E14119C94; Sat, 10 May 2003 12:54:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C526F19AA1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 May 2003 12:53:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 77190 invoked from network); 10 May 2003 16:53:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO proweb.co.uk) (192.168.1.100) by juice.thebigchoice.com with SMTP; 10 May 2003 16:53:58 -0000 Message-ID: <3EBD2EA5.1000708@proweb.co.uk> From: matt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems References: <63fa9456b6bb1a16a137a4834fd83361@plan9.bell-labs.com> In-Reply-To: <63fa9456b6bb1a16a137a4834fd83361@plan9.bell-labs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 17:53:58 +0100 > > cf. http://spinroot.com/pico/pjw.html what a lovely story with one slightly disturbing aspect : "Peter agreed to let us take a plaster cast of his faces." I hope it's a consonant added rather than a missing vowel. Curious that the plan9 glyph isn't mentioned. m From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 11 01:59:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 11 01:59:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8780 invoked by uid 1020); 11 May 2003 01:59:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8776 invoked from network); 11 May 2003 01:59:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 May 2003 01:59:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CF07519C99; Sat, 10 May 2003 12:59:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr7.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D3B6719C9A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 May 2003 12:58:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr7.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id OVK99614; Sat, 10 May 2003 12:58:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFV84662; Sat, 10 May 2003 12:58:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00e001c31715$60175600$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <63fa9456b6bb1a16a137a4834fd83361@plan9.bell-labs.com> <3EBD2EA5.1000708@proweb.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 18:58:26 +0200 somewhere i have the 'white shirt'. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 11 01:59:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 11 01:59:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8787 invoked by uid 1020); 11 May 2003 01:59:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8783 invoked from network); 11 May 2003 01:59:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 May 2003 01:59:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B32D319C9E; Sat, 10 May 2003 12:59:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr7.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EBBB419C96 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 May 2003 12:58:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr7.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id OVK99652; Sat, 10 May 2003 12:58:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFV84719; Sat, 10 May 2003 12:58:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00e401c31715$73bca200$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <63fa9456b6bb1a16a137a4834fd83361@plan9.bell-labs.com> <3EBD2EA5.1000708@proweb.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 18:58:59 +0200 i'll have the QAB shirt in a few days From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 11 02:10:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 11 02:10:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9069 invoked by uid 1020); 11 May 2003 02:10:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9065 invoked from network); 11 May 2003 02:10:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 May 2003 02:10:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3E62F19C9A; Sat, 10 May 2003 13:10:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.182]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1A24819C98 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 May 2003 13:09:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-18-210.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.18.210 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 May 2003 17:09:34 -0000 Message-ID: <3EBD401E.9010402@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems References: <63fa9456b6bb1a16a137a4834fd83361@plan9.bell-labs.com> <3EBD2EA5.1000708@proweb.co.uk> <00e401c31715$73bca200$e3944251@insultant.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 13:08:30 -0500 > > >i'll have the QAB shirt in a few days > That'd be a pretty sweet tshirt: Font: Image of the plan9 pjw glyph Back: "I always wondered what that font glyph meant..." plan9 by Bell Labs Don From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 11 02:13:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 11 02:13:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9120 invoked by uid 1020); 11 May 2003 02:13:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9116 invoked from network); 11 May 2003 02:13:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 May 2003 02:13:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 770F719ACF; Sat, 10 May 2003 13:13:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr9.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7F11919ACF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 May 2003 13:12:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr9.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id PEZ02964; Sat, 10 May 2003 13:12:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFV85851; Sat, 10 May 2003 13:12:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <010e01c31717$5f7e3860$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <63fa9456b6bb1a16a137a4834fd83361@plan9.bell-labs.com> <3EBD2EA5.1000708@proweb.co.uk> <00e401c31715$73bca200$e3944251@insultant.net> <3EBD401E.9010402@ameritech.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 19:12:44 +0200 i could post a cropped copy of the back of it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 11 02:18:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 11 02:18:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9198 invoked by uid 1020); 11 May 2003 02:18:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9194 invoked from network); 11 May 2003 02:18:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 May 2003 02:18:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D497F19CA4; Sat, 10 May 2003 13:18:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from minster.cs.york.ac.uk (minster.cs.york.ac.uk [144.32.40.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A22C19CA1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 May 2003 13:17:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pc118 ([144.32.41.119] helo=pc118.cs.york.ac.uk ident=1530) by minster.cs.york.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 19EXy5-0001UY-00; Sat, 10 May 2003 18:17:05 +0100 Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere From: John Murdie To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: john@cs.york.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <3EBBF24B.3020508@ameritech.net> References: <622b8580ff4fa7e12cb655bf19694fe8@vitanuova.com> <1052497182.736.14.camel@pc118> <3EBBF24B.3020508@ameritech.net> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Message-Id: <1052587025.734.55.camel@pc118> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanner: exiscan *19EXy5-0001UY-00*8t/yK0UgHtw* Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 10 May 2003 18:17:05 +0100 On Fri, 2003-05-09 at 19:24, northern snowfall wrote: > > > > > >And then what should one do? Suppose that a "genuinely surprising > >condition" occurs when a launch vehicle is a few tens of seconds off the > >ground; just what should the program do? > > > Hopefully, the programmer would have enough sense to > see this coming? The point of smart design is to facilitate > the unexpected, I don't think that means exceptions are > the answer. Certainly, this argument is slightly dramatic, > wouldn't you agree, John? That's precisely my point (and, yes, it is slightly dramatic but, then, people do code launch vehicle control systems). I'm glad we agree. I would hope that the analyst/programmer[s] would have designed the code in such a way that it straightforwardly describes what should be done in all anticipatable circumstances. I don't think it is worth betting that ad hoc exception-handling code can cope with the "genuinely surprising condition". I think that exceptions encourage careless, lazy, analysis and programming, and produce code that is unclear and (more) difficult to reason about than traditional sequential, predicate-transforming, code. Yes, they can be used as a short-hand notation to code e.g. the rule "whenever an arithmetic overflow occurs in this section of code, I don't care; just quit (or do the calculation again with different parameters, or whatever)", but they are also used as an inadequate substitute for proper systems analysis and coding. I think that this was Rob Pike's point, with which I agree. (To counter my own argument, though, I remember reading something that - I think - Doug McIlroy wrote about error handling code in telephone exchanges; the code had been known to recover successfully from errors that the designers had not anticipated. That said, I'd rather not trust to such luck.) John A. Murdie From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 11 03:00:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 11 03:00:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9939 invoked by uid 1020); 11 May 2003 03:00:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9935 invoked from network); 11 May 2003 03:00:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 May 2003 03:00:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0920119ACA; Sat, 10 May 2003 14:00:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr8.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9C74819A27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 May 2003 13:59:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr8.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id ALA02400; Sat, 10 May 2003 13:59:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFV89287; Sat, 10 May 2003 13:58:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000801c3171d$e263fd40$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <622b8580ff4fa7e12cb655bf19694fe8@vitanuova.com> <1052497182.736.14.camel@pc118> <3EBBF24B.3020508@ameritech.net> <1052587025.734.55.camel@pc118> Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 19:59:15 +0200 From: "John Murdie" > I think that exceptions encourage careless, lazy, analysis and > programming, and produce code that is unclear and (more) difficult to > reason about than traditional sequential, predicate-transforming, code. > Yes, they can be used as a short-hand notation to code e.g. the rule > "whenever an arithmetic overflow occurs in this section of code, I don't > care; just quit (or do the calculation again with different parameters, > or whatever)", but they are also used as an inadequate substitute for > proper systems analysis and coding. like when the F-16 rolled inverted when it crossed the equator when flying south. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 11 03:04:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 11 03:04:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9998 invoked by uid 1020); 11 May 2003 03:04:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9994 invoked from network); 11 May 2003 03:04:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 May 2003 03:04:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 26A5C19CA1; Sat, 10 May 2003 14:04:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr7.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 41FC319A2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 May 2003 14:03:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr7.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id OVL03379; Sat, 10 May 2003 14:03:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFV89656; Sat, 10 May 2003 14:03:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001001c3171e$911472c0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <622b8580ff4fa7e12cb655bf19694fe8@vitanuova.com> <1052497182.736.14.camel@pc118> <3EBBF24B.3020508@ameritech.net> <1052587025.734.55.camel@pc118> Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 20:04:08 +0200 NASA used to build spacecraft; top down design, bottom up implementation. now they 'build the shuttle'. grissom is dead because of their own 'failure of vision'; the gemini mission where the exploding bolts fired, so they removed 'em and so we had O2 + velcro + a spark --- all of 'em dead ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 11 07:35:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 11 07:35:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14126 invoked by uid 1020); 11 May 2003 07:35:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14122 invoked from network); 11 May 2003 07:35:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 May 2003 07:35:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8153C19A9B; Sat, 10 May 2003 18:35:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr8.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0638A19A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 May 2003 18:34:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr8.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id ALA17387; Sat, 10 May 2003 18:34:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFW08707; Sat, 10 May 2003 18:34:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001001c31744$59358300$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <63fa9456b6bb1a16a137a4834fd83361@plan9.bell-labs.com> <3EBD2EA5.1000708@proweb.co.uk> <00e401c31715$73bca200$e3944251@insultant.net> <3EBD401E.9010402@ameritech.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C31755.1C05B160" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 00:34:40 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C31755.1C05B160 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit goto [label that got deleted]; ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C31755.1C05B160 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="qab.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="qab.jpg" /9j/4RQSRXhpZgAASUkqAAgAAAAKAA8BAgAFAAAAhgAAABABAgAPAAAAjAAAABIBAwABAAAAAQAA ABoBBQABAAAAnAAAABsBBQABAAAApAAAACgBAwABAAAAAgAAADEBAgAYAAAArAAAADIBAgAUAAAA xAAAABMCAwABAAAAAgAAAGmHBAABAAAA2AAAAJABAABTT05ZAABkaWdpdGFsIGNhbWVyYQAAgPwK ABAnAACA/AoAECcAAFBpY3R1cmVHZWFyIFZlcnNpb24gNC4wADIwMDM6MDU6MTAgMTk6MTY6MzAA CQAAkAcABAAAADAyMTADkAIAFAAAAEoBAAAEkAIAFAAAAF4BAAABkQcABAAAAAECAwAAoAcABAAA 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remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 11 08:12:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14605 invoked by uid 1020); 11 May 2003 08:12:11 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14601 invoked from network); 11 May 2003 08:12:11 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 May 2003 08:12:11 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0A895199B6; Sat, 10 May 2003 19:11:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 068F619A0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 May 2003 19:10:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems In-Reply-To: <63fa9456b6bb1a16a137a4834fd83361@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 19:09:55 -0400 On Sat May 10 03:12:21 EDT 2003, dmr@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > ... > cf. http://spinroot.com/pico/pjw.html > ... The above reference is not accurate regarding the versions of the T-shirts. The original white with blue logo and the pale blue with black logo shown in http://spinroot.com/pico/pjw_shirt_front.jpg used a version of Duff's log with fewer lines. The second version, done by Paul Glick, was a brighter (but still pale) blue with a blocky 'pixelated' version of PJW's face, not the 'death-star' style of the first. As far as I remember, the original white was a small run of no more than a dozen or so, done in a Portland, OR shop during a break at the USENIX conference. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 11 08:17:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 11 08:17:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14713 invoked by uid 1020); 11 May 2003 08:17:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14709 invoked from network); 11 May 2003 08:17:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 May 2003 08:17:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 347C719A8D; Sat, 10 May 2003 19:17:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr9.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 79F1819A68 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 May 2003 19:16:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr9.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id PEZ22539; Sat, 10 May 2003 19:16:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFW11536; Sat, 10 May 2003 19:16:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001a01c3174a$42ec3160$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 01:16:54 +0200 > As far as I remember, the original white was a small run of no more > than a dozen or so, done in a Portland, OR shop during a break at the > USENIX conference. not sure where mine is. i was wearing at CRL one day and the lab director was very curious about how i'd got it ... the story i heard is that he declined the expense claim for the paint. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 11 08:27:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 11 08:27:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14975 invoked by uid 1020); 11 May 2003 08:27:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14971 invoked from network); 11 May 2003 08:27:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 May 2003 08:27:39 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C0FF1998C; Sat, 10 May 2003 19:27:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr9.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 806AE19A2A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 May 2003 19:26:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr9.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id PEZ22962; Sat, 10 May 2003 19:26:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFW12189; Sat, 10 May 2003 19:26:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002601c3174b$91dd6ea0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 01:26:17 +0200 > As far as I remember, the original white was a small run of no more > than a dozen or so, done in a Portland, OR shop during a break at the > USENIX conference. this sounds right; piers, maltby and brucee were there From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 11 08:50:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 11 08:50:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15343 invoked by uid 1020); 11 May 2003 08:50:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15339 invoked from network); 11 May 2003 08:50:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 May 2003 08:50:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6020319A81; Sat, 10 May 2003 19:50:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AB42719AB3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 May 2003 19:49:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4ANnOpO013449 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 May 2003 16:49:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: <63fa9456b6bb1a16a137a4834fd83361@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 16:54:57 -0700 >>> Is this why Plan9 uses pjw as the catchall glyph? > >> those who forget their history are doomed to repeat it ... > >> ever seen the pjw labs management hierarchy diagram? > >> or the t-shirt, or the tower, or the stolen tower template, or the thief, or the >> accused thief? > > cf. http://spinroot.com/pico/pjw.html Thanks, now I remember. I did read about it in the Digital Darkroom book. But like a good story, it is fun to hear it again. Maybe a deeper question is, why did Pike and Holzmann do it? Was it an inspiration that then snowballed, or was there a deeper motivation? The campaign to distribute it in so many forms, certainly has a fanatical feel to it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 11 11:08:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 11 11:08:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17555 invoked by uid 1020); 11 May 2003 11:08:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17551 invoked from network); 11 May 2003 11:08:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 May 2003 11:08:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D35C419A9E; Sat, 10 May 2003 22:08:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B4BDE199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 May 2003 22:07:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 640400 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 10 May 2003 21:09:09 -0500 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 19:06:55 -0700 > As far as I remember, the original white was a small run of no more > than a dozen or so, done in a Portland, OR shop during a break at the > USENIX conference. That is correct. I think Joe Buhler had a friend who made t-shirts and we used him. Later, back in NJ, we took the same pattern to a shop and made a bunch more. The originals were polyester/cotton blend and kinda flimsy; the later set were pure cotton and a darker (less close to AT&T) blue. Glick's version was much later. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 11 11:08:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 11 11:08:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17562 invoked by uid 1020); 11 May 2003 11:08:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17558 invoked from network); 11 May 2003 11:08:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 May 2003 11:08:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3430019ABF; Sat, 10 May 2003 22:08:19 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 920C919A95 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 May 2003 22:07:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 640401 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 10 May 2003 21:09:44 -0500 Message-ID: <956e7e233b480c2244d0bc0843f77d5b@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <001a01c3174a$42ec3160$e3944251@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 19:07:31 -0700 > the story i heard is that he declined the expense claim for the paint. Different 'he'. The decliner was Vic Vyssotsky. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 11 11:09:15 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 11 11:09:15 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17575 invoked by uid 1020); 11 May 2003 11:09:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17571 invoked from network); 11 May 2003 11:09:15 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 May 2003 11:09:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DBB0819AC1; Sat, 10 May 2003 22:09:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 60A7719AB9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 May 2003 22:08:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 640397 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 10 May 2003 21:10:18 -0500 Message-ID: <11a0831d41e698a1031afbc92f8fcfbe@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 19:08:04 -0700 > why did Pike and Holzmann do it? An imponderable. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 11 11:27:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 11 11:27:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17898 invoked by uid 1020); 11 May 2003 11:27:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17894 invoked from network); 11 May 2003 11:27:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 May 2003 11:27:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3A7B919A70; Sat, 10 May 2003 22:27:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr8.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 91BAA19A70 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 May 2003 22:26:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr8.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id ALA27602; Sat, 10 May 2003 22:26:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFW24704; Sat, 10 May 2003 22:26:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001b01c31764$c53ec6e0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <956e7e233b480c2244d0bc0843f77d5b@mightycheese.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 04:26:46 +0200 > Different 'he'. The decliner was Vic Vyssotsky. stranger and stranger, but you [i] learn something every day ... June 10-14, 1985, there were 1,730 attendees at the Portland, OR, meeting. Vic Vyssotsky was the keynote speaker. Other speakers were Gordon Bell, Eric Allman, Bjarne Stroustrup, Rob Pike, Dave Presotto, Andy Koenig, Tom Ferrin, Dave Yost, Dennis Ritchie, Don Libes, Mike Hawley, Ed Gould, Sam Leffler, Dave Korn, Kirk McKusick, Mike Karels, Brian Redman, and . . . http://www.usenix.org/publications/login/2000-8/usenixnews.html hang on, google vet allt ... Victor Vyssotsky gave us the freedom to experiment carefully with the Internetgateway at Digital's Cambridge ResearchLab. NeilFishman and TedWojcikassisted withourexperiments at CRL's gateway. http://www.usenix.org/publications/library/proceedings/cinci93/full_papers/treese.txt From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 11 11:32:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 11 11:32:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17990 invoked by uid 1020); 11 May 2003 11:32:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17986 invoked from network); 11 May 2003 11:32:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 May 2003 11:32:37 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D507319AD6; Sat, 10 May 2003 22:32:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr9.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D91319ACB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 May 2003 22:31:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr9.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id PEZ31133; Sat, 10 May 2003 22:31:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFW25012; Sat, 10 May 2003 22:31:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002901c31765$7d8f87c0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <11a0831d41e698a1031afbc92f8fcfbe@mightycheese.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 04:31:55 +0200 how was the 'face the nation' pjw icon encoded in troff, circa 1984? knowing it's 'size' is trivial, but getting troff to render it, well ... think of berkeley From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 11 12:49:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 11 12:49:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19529 invoked by uid 1020); 11 May 2003 12:49:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19525 invoked from network); 11 May 2003 12:49:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 May 2003 12:49:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8334819A99; Sat, 10 May 2003 23:49:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B65A19A99 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 May 2003 23:48:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <575595c80b993d0a2a19bd566bae1c4f@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dennis Ritchie To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems In-Reply-To: <001a01c3174a$42ec3160$e3944251@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 23:48:00 -0400 Boyd said, > not sure where [my t-shirt] is. i was wearing at CRL one day and the lab director > was very curious about how i'd got it ... > the story i heard is that he declined the expense claim for the paint. Rob demurred, > Different 'he'. The decliner was Vic Vyssotsky. Assuming CRL was Digital's Cambridge (MA) research lab, they were presumably the same person--Vic moved there. The story of the paint voucher can be expanded. It was submitted to Vyssotsky, signed indeed by G. R. Emlin (in a handwriting a graphologist would have little trouble with). It came back with a note from Vic, saying approximately: Unfortunately I do not have authorization under the G.E.I. to approve real estate improvements. If Ms [then perhaps Mr] Emlin wishes to arrange a transfer to the Buildings and Grounds group, I will help to facilitate this. Vic also let it be quietly known that the envelope had been pushed to its very limit. Dennis From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 11 12:55:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 11 12:55:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19679 invoked by uid 1020); 11 May 2003 12:55:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19675 invoked from network); 11 May 2003 12:55:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 May 2003 12:55:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5F59419AD7; Sat, 10 May 2003 23:55:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr9.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 66C8119999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 May 2003 23:54:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr9.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id PEZ34431; Sat, 10 May 2003 23:54:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFW29626; Sat, 10 May 2003 23:54:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <009801c31771$0ef3ae20$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <575595c80b993d0a2a19bd566bae1c4f@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 05:54:43 +0200 From: "Dennis Ritchie" > Vic also let it be quietly known that the envelope had > been pushed to its very limit. iirc he took a short stroll to collect his thoughts on the matter. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 11 14:59:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 11 14:59:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21825 invoked by uid 1020); 11 May 2003 14:59:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21821 invoked from network); 11 May 2003 14:59:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 May 2003 14:59:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DD47719AE2; Sun, 11 May 2003 01:59:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from london.com (unknown [213.33.162.22]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 55CA219999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 May 2003 01:58:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown (HELO mxs.perenter.com) (15.17.243.178) by qnx.mdrost.com with smtp; Sun, 11 May 2003 04:03:11 +0200 Message-ID: <145801c31773$4db74480$d759ffd2@frederickursu> From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [9fans] foreign pharmacies help you save money Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 16:10:48 +1200 Tm8gSE1PPyAgQiB1IHkgeW91ciBkcnVncyBmcm9tIENhbmFkYS4gIFdlIGhh dmUgc29tZSBvZiB0aGUgbCBvIHcgZSBzIHQgIHAgcg0KaSBjIGUgcyBmb3Ig ZCByIHUgZyBzIGluIHRoZSB3b3JsZC4NCg0KaHR0cDovL3d3dy5wYWNpZmlj bWVkaWNpbmVzLmNvbQ0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KaHR0cDovL3d3dy5lbWFpbHJl bW92YWxyZWdpc3RyeS5jb20vY2dpLWJpbi9kcnVnLXJlbW92ZS5jZ2kNCg== From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 11 15:05:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 11 15:05:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21907 invoked by uid 1020); 11 May 2003 15:05:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21903 invoked from network); 11 May 2003 15:05:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 May 2003 15:05:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7348219ADE; Sun, 11 May 2003 02:05:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7F9BB19A1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 May 2003 02:04:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 640545 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 11 May 2003 01:06:25 -0500 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <002901c31765$7d8f87c0$e3944251@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 23:04:10 -0700 > how was the 'face the nation' pjw icon encoded in troff, circa 1984? Helvetica periods. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 11 16:04:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 11 16:04:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22899 invoked by uid 1020); 11 May 2003 16:04:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22895 invoked from network); 11 May 2003 16:04:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 May 2003 16:04:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8DB2719ACB; Sun, 11 May 2003 03:04:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr7.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 41BB119999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 May 2003 03:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr7.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id OVL39725; Sun, 11 May 2003 03:03:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFW50095; Sun, 11 May 2003 03:03:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000701c3178b$7619c840$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 09:03:43 +0200 > Helvetica periods. nice use of the 48x48x1 and troff. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 11 20:56:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 11 20:56:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27707 invoked by uid 1020); 11 May 2003 20:56:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27703 invoked from network); 11 May 2003 20:56:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 May 2003 20:56:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B904919A6B; Sun, 11 May 2003 07:56:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (node-c-0ad5.a2000.nl [62.194.10.213]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8EBA1199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 May 2003 07:55:50 -0400 (EDT) From: "savimtaofeek@netscape.net" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20030511115550.8EBA1199E8@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] Urgent Assistance. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: zo, 11 mei 2003 13:55:42 From Taofeek Savimbi, This message may come as a surprise as we have not met, but we are desperately in need of help. I got your contact email address from a comprehensive search on the Internet. I cannot contact any of my known father's associates because of the on-going situation in my country and the predicament facing my family. I am the son of the late leader of the Movement for the Total Independence of Angola (UNITA), Jonas Savimbi, who was killed in a fierce gun battle with government troops loyal to Edwardo Dos Santos on the 22nd of Febuary 2002. I am Taofeek Savimbi, the son of Jonas Savimbi. I was aware of sales of diamonds and crude oil to individuals and countries that clandestinely come and purchase these products. After the PEACE ACCORD was broken, the United States of America government abandoned my father and the United Nations (UN) imposed sanctions on all products coming out of UNITA controlled areas. It is the proceeds of these sales that were used by UNITA to purchase arms to prosecute the war. To learn more of the injustice and situation on my father find more at: My late father, Jonas Savimbi was able to deposit some funds in Europe with a Security Company that he intended to make purchases with. My mother happens to be in possesion of documents and informations of the deposit and some others. Our movements presently (including me) is restricted. We are forbidden to either travel abroad or out of our localities. Presently, the US$28.5 Million Dollars cash my father transfered to Europe before his death for some purchases he intended to make is safe and is with the Security firm. I have the passcode and the documents to the Security firm. This is where I will need your help because at present I cannot travel. And I want to act fast before the government finds out about the funds. With this password and information and power of attorney you will be able to proceed to the Security firm. When you are ready I will give you the information needed before you can get access to the funds you will then proceed to the Security company where the funds will be given to you as payment either installmentally or depending on the advice of the security company. Please get back to me with your intentions to help to enable me give you the full details of infomation to collecting the money. YOUR CONFIDENTIALITY IN THIS TRANSACTION IS REQUIRED. Yours sincerely, Taofeek Savimbi. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 11 21:16:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 11 21:16:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28231 invoked by uid 1020); 11 May 2003 21:16:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28227 invoked from network); 11 May 2003 21:16:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 May 2003 21:16:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2D37419A65; Sun, 11 May 2003 08:16:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (node-c-0ad5.a2000.nl [62.194.10.213]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8ED6E19999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 May 2003 08:15:56 -0400 (EDT) From: "savimtaofeek@netscape.net" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20030511121556.8ED6E19999@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] Urgent Assistance. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: zo, 11 mei 2003 14:15:47 From Taofeek Savimbi, This message may come as a surprise as we have not met, but we are desperately in need of help. I got your contact email address from a comprehensive search on the Internet. I cannot contact any of my known father's associates because of the on-going situation in my country and the predicament facing my family. I am the son of the late leader of the Movement for the Total Independence of Angola (UNITA), Jonas Savimbi, who was killed in a fierce gun battle with government troops loyal to Edwardo Dos Santos on the 22nd of Febuary 2002. I am Taofeek Savimbi, the son of Jonas Savimbi. I was aware of sales of diamonds and crude oil to individuals and countries that clandestinely come and purchase these products. After the PEACE ACCORD was broken, the United States of America government abandoned my father and the United Nations (UN) imposed sanctions on all products coming out of UNITA controlled areas. It is the proceeds of these sales that were used by UNITA to purchase arms to prosecute the war. To learn more of the injustice and situation on my father find more at: My late father, Jonas Savimbi was able to deposit some funds in Europe with a Security Company that he intended to make purchases with. My mother happens to be in possesion of documents and informations of the deposit and some others. Our movements presently (including me) is restricted. We are forbidden to either travel abroad or out of our localities. Presently, the US$28.5 Million Dollars cash my father transfered to Europe before his death for some purchases he intended to make is safe and is with the Security firm. I have the passcode and the documents to the Security firm. This is where I will need your help because at present I cannot travel. And I want to act fast before the government finds out about the funds. With this password and information and power of attorney you will be able to proceed to the Security firm. When you are ready I will give you the information needed before you can get access to the funds you will then proceed to the Security company where the funds will be given to you as payment either installmentally or depending on the advice of the security company. Please get back to me with your intentions to help to enable me give you the full details of infomation to collecting the money. YOUR CONFIDENTIALITY IN THIS TRANSACTION IS REQUIRED. Yours sincerely, Taofeek Savimbi. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 11 23:37:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 11 23:37:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30673 invoked by uid 1020); 11 May 2003 23:37:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30669 invoked from network); 11 May 2003 23:37:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 May 2003 23:37:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E92B2199D5; Sun, 11 May 2003 10:37:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.181]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E602219991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 May 2003 10:36:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-18-210.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.18.210 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 May 2003 14:36:19 -0000 Message-ID: <3EBE6DAE.7080307@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Postcript Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 10:35:10 -0500 Morning, everyone I've got a few documents to get written up, and I'd like to use postscript. I have had little experience in this area, however. What is everyone's recommendation on generating Postscript files from Word Docs? I tried generating some Postscript docs on my Win9x with Xerox's XPPS. The resulting file opened fine on Win9x with GhostView. On plan9, though, the page request failed with "alarm". If anyone has any ideas or another technique I could use, I'd appreciate it. Though, the source file should always be a Word Doc. That is really the only tool I can make decent documents (with graphics) in. Don From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 11 23:45:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 11 23:45:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30791 invoked by uid 1020); 11 May 2003 23:45:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30787 invoked from network); 11 May 2003 23:45:15 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 May 2003 23:45:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0DEDD19A53; Sun, 11 May 2003 10:45:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.185]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 129BB199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 May 2003 10:44:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-18-210.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.18.210 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 May 2003 14:44:41 -0000 Message-ID: <3EBE6FA9.3020307@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Postcript References: <3EBE6DAE.7080307@ameritech.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 10:43:37 -0500 > I tried generating some Postscript docs > on my Win9x with Xerox's XPPS. The resulting file > opened fine on Win9x with GhostView. On plan9, > though, the page request failed with "alarm". I suppose it should be noted that the same postscript file works fine on SunOS 5.9 with the default viewer. (Image Viewer Version 1.2.2) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 12 03:18:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 12 03:18:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 714 invoked by uid 1020); 12 May 2003 03:18:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 710 invoked from network); 12 May 2003 03:18:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 May 2003 03:18:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 141BA19A10; Sun, 11 May 2003 14:18:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from hacsek (adsl-2-83.tvnet.hu [195.38.115.83]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7D1A8199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 May 2003 14:17:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] weird cursor motion From: "Zoltan Jarai" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 20:17:13 +0200 > I use a video card with S3 virge chip on. It mostly works fine in > 1024x768x8, but has one annoying problem. > > When acme automatically moves the cursor around, like when > searching for a piece of text or resizing a window, often times > (but not always) the cursor symbol on the screen stays where > it was, until I wiggle the mouse a little bit, then it immedately > jumps to where it is supposed to be. As if the cursor was > daydreaming... Has anyone seen this? (See: http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=LPBBIBIIHKHEGDBPHBDOMEFNCAAA.kiwane%40dream.com) I came upon this exact same problem and fixed it by adding a call to s3vsyncactive() in /sys/src/9/pc/vgas3.c:/^s3move to wait for the card a little. I know, it's a hack. diff -n /n/sources/plan9/sys/src/9/pc/vgas3.c /sys/src/9/pc/vgas3.c /n/sources/plan9/sys/src/9/pc/vgas3.c:324 a /sys/src/9/pc/vgas3.c:325,325 > s3vsyncactive(); My card is an S3 TRIO 32 (PCI ID 5333/8811) and I use the TRIO 64 section of /lib/vgadb. (I tried the ViRGE section as well, since 5333/8811 is mentioned there but the screen was flickering.) ctlr 0xC0044="Phoenix S3 TRIO32 Enhanced VGA BIOS. Version 1.3-08" link=vga hwgc=s3hwgc ctlr=trio64 linear=1 link=ibm8514 Zoli From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 12 03:27:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 12 03:27:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 798 invoked by uid 1020); 12 May 2003 03:27:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 794 invoked from network); 12 May 2003 03:27:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 May 2003 03:27:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B5C3B19A32; Sun, 11 May 2003 14:27:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from magnum.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id F3F53199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 May 2003 14:26:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from robin.cooper.edu by magnum.cooper.edu with SMTP id AA29697 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>); Sun, 11 May 2003 14:30:17 -0400 Received: from localhost by robin.cooper.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA13569; Sun, 11 May 2003 14:26:00 -0400 From: Joel Salomon To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Postcript In-Reply-To: <3EBE6DAE.7080307@ameritech.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 14:26:00 -0400 (EDT) Try file/export and choose pswrite as the 'driver'. The windows postscript printer drivers dont always mark page boundaries wellenough for non-printer readers. --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 12 03:38:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 12 03:38:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 862 invoked by uid 1020); 12 May 2003 03:38:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 858 invoked from network); 12 May 2003 03:38:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 May 2003 03:38:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D501619A00; Sun, 11 May 2003 14:38:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from magnum.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A70A91998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 May 2003 14:37:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from robin.cooper.edu by magnum.cooper.edu with SMTP id AA00290 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>); Sun, 11 May 2003 14:41:59 -0400 Received: from localhost by robin.cooper.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA13744; Sun, 11 May 2003 14:37:42 -0400 From: Joel Salomon To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Postcript In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 14:37:42 -0400 (EDT) > Try file/export and choose pswrite as the 'driver'. The windows postscript > printer drivers dont always mark page boundaries wellenough for > non-printer readers. on windows ghostscript, I meant --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 12 05:43:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 12 05:43:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2191 invoked by uid 1020); 12 May 2003 05:43:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2187 invoked from network); 12 May 2003 05:43:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 May 2003 05:43:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BF8F819991; Sun, 11 May 2003 16:43:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cox.net (65-86-152-207.client.dsl.net [65.86.152.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E192819991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 May 2003 16:42:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: [9fans] tdjltjnedvkrci oeuiopbtqnedratw Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 04:37:28 -0800 U1RPUCBQQVlJTkcgRk9SIFBPUk4hISEgICAgZnYNClRoZSBXb3JsZCdzIEZJ UlNUIEFic29sdXRlbHkgRlJFRSBBZHVsdCBNZWdhc2l0ZSENCg0KaHR0cDov L3hjcy5pbmNyZWRpYmxlb2ZmZXIudHYvZnN3LzExLyAgIHh2cA0KDQotSE9U IEdJUkxTIE9OIFdFQkNBTQ0KLUxpdmUgU2V4IFNob3dzDQotRnVsbC1MZW5n dGggTW92aWVzICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgag0KLUJlYXV0 aWZ1bCBQaWN0b3JpYWxzDQotRXJvdGljIFN0b3JpZXMgYW5kIEdhbWVzDQot RGlkIHdlIG1lbnRpb24gaXRzIEZSRUUgPyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBm eHENCg0KQUxMIFlPVSBORUVEIElTIFlPVVIgRU1BSUwgQUREUkVTUyBUTyBK T0lOISEhICAgICAgIGkNCg0KQ2hlY2sgdXMgb3V0IQ0KICAgICAgIA0KaHR0 cDovL2tpZmhhdi5pbmNyZWRpYmxlb2ZmZXIudHYvZnN3LzExLyAgIGRiDQoN CihKdXN0IGVudGVyIHlvdXIgZW1haWwgYWRkcmVzcywgYW5kIHlvdSB3aWxs IHJlY2VpdmUgeW91ciANCnVzZXJuYW1lIGFuZCBwYXNzd29yZCBpbiB0aGUg bWFpbCEpDQoNCmp5DQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KaHR0cDovL3Iu aW5jcmVkaWJsZW9mZmVyLnR2L2Zzdy9yZW0v From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 12 09:06:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 12 09:06:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4512 invoked by uid 1020); 12 May 2003 09:06:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4508 invoked from network); 12 May 2003 09:06:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 May 2003 09:06:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2EDA4199F2; Sun, 11 May 2003 20:06:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A469619A06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 May 2003 20:05:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <68be6130f4ea22937bdfe4e748985b60@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Postcript From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <3EBE6DAE.7080307@ameritech.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 20:05:26 -0400 The "alarm" message is not the point of that output. The real problem is what gets printed before, namely that Ghostscript has produced unexpected output. Some old PostScript files have stuff in them to print things like %%[Printing page 1]%% to standard output (presumably goes to the LCD on the printer). I haven't seen that in recent Windows drivers though. I usually install a driver for an Apple Laserwriter II NTX (either numeric version, I think v47.0 or 52.3, but it's been a while) and then print to file. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 12 11:01:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 12 11:01:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9076 invoked by uid 1020); 12 May 2003 11:01:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9072 invoked from network); 12 May 2003 11:01:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 May 2003 11:01:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2118319A3E; Sun, 11 May 2003 22:01:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.181]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E55A519A06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 May 2003 22:00:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-18-210.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.18.210 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 May 2003 02:00:39 -0000 Message-ID: <3EBF0E16.3040008@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Postcript References: <68be6130f4ea22937bdfe4e748985b60@plan9.bell-labs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 21:59:34 -0500 > > >The "alarm" message is not the point of that output. >The real problem is what gets printed before, namely >that Ghostscript has produced unexpected output. >Some old PostScript files have stuff in them to print >things like %%[Printing page 1]%% to standard output >(presumably goes to the LCD on the printer). I haven't >seen that in recent Windows drivers though. > Yeah it spits out: Ghostscript error: %%%[ ProductName: AFPL Ghostscript ]%%% postnote 244: alarm I'll give the driver you mentioned a shot. Don > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 12 11:33:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 12 11:33:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10353 invoked by uid 1020); 12 May 2003 11:33:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10349 invoked from network); 12 May 2003 11:33:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 May 2003 11:33:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7FD6219A68; Sun, 11 May 2003 22:33:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id EBE3D19999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 May 2003 22:32:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 3703 invoked by uid 991); 12 May 2003 02:32:46 -0000 Message-ID: <20030512023246.3702.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Postcript In-Reply-To: Message from northern snowfall of "Sun, 11 May 2003 21:59:34 CDT." <3EBF0E16.3040008@ameritech.net> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 22:32:46 -0400 | >The real problem is what gets printed before, namely | >that Ghostscript has produced unexpected output. Postscript previewers really shouldn't croak when that happens, though. gv just reports that stuff to the user. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 12 11:43:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 12 11:43:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10785 invoked by uid 1020); 12 May 2003 11:43:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10781 invoked from network); 12 May 2003 11:43:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 May 2003 11:43:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A091F19A7D; Sun, 11 May 2003 22:43:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.183]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2716919999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 May 2003 22:42:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-18-210.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.18.210 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 May 2003 02:42:40 -0000 Message-ID: <3EBF17EB.3070101@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Postcript References: <68be6130f4ea22937bdfe4e748985b60@plan9.bell-labs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 22:41:31 -0500 > > >I usually install a driver for an Apple Laserwriter II NTX >(either numeric version, I think v47.0 or 52.3, but it's >been a while) and then print to file. > Tried an Apple Laserwriter II NTX v51.8 straight off the Win98 CD-ROM. It's working with no problems on all target platforms. Thanks Russ, Don > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 12 12:41:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 12 12:41:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12752 invoked by uid 1020); 12 May 2003 12:41:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12748 invoked from network); 12 May 2003 12:41:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 May 2003 12:41:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D46DC19A82; Sun, 11 May 2003 23:41:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B7424199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 May 2003 23:40:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Postcript From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030512023246.3702.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 23:40:16 -0400 > | >The real problem is what gets printed before, namely > | >that Ghostscript has produced unexpected output. > > Postscript previewers really shouldn't croak when that happens, though. > gv just reports that stuff to the user. True enough, but page currently can't tell interpreter errors apart from postscript's standard output. Usually output is the interpreter barfing on bad postscript. Maybe there's some way to silence the prints. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 12 13:05:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 12 13:05:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13618 invoked by uid 1020); 12 May 2003 13:05:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13614 invoked from network); 12 May 2003 13:05:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 May 2003 13:05:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BF92719A8A; Mon, 12 May 2003 00:05:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cox.net (65-86-152-207.client.dsl.net [65.86.152.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id D3FD619A87 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 00:04:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8079da1b07cf$74ccc441$fc2b7dec@kvycqtklynbl.fxpl> From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: [9fans] iqdlatit ywvvva Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 13:44:28 -1000 U1RPUCBQQVlJTkcgRk9SIFBPUk4hISEgICAgcGJyDQpUaGUgV29ybGQncyBG SVJTVCBBYnNvbHV0ZWx5IEZSRUUgQWR1bHQgTWVnYXNpdGUhDQoNCmh0dHA6 Ly92LmluY3JlZGlibGVvZmZlci50di9mc3cvMTEvICAgY2MNCg0KLUhPVCBH SVJMUyBPTiBXRUJDQU0NCi1MaXZlIFNleCBTaG93cw0KLUZ1bGwtTGVuZ3Ro IE1vdmllcyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIGNiaA0KLUJlYXV0 aWZ1bCBQaWN0b3JpYWxzDQotRXJvdGljIFN0b3JpZXMgYW5kIEdhbWVzDQot RGlkIHdlIG1lbnRpb24gaXRzIEZSRUUgPyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBv DQoNCkFMTCBZT1UgTkVFRCBJUyBZT1VSIEVNQUlMIEFERFJFU1MgVE8gSk9J TiEhISAgICAgICBlDQoNCkNoZWNrIHVzIG91dCENCiAgICAgICANCmh0dHA6 Ly9tbHhiLmluY3JlZGlibGVvZmZlci50di9mc3cvMTEvICAgamcNCg0KKEp1 c3QgZW50ZXIgeW91ciBlbWFpbCBhZGRyZXNzLCBhbmQgeW91IHdpbGwgcmVj ZWl2ZSB5b3VyIA0KdXNlcm5hbWUgYW5kIHBhc3N3b3JkIGluIHRoZSBtYWls ISkNCg0KaWxkcg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCmh0dHA6Ly93ZXNj eW10bi5pbmNyZWRpYmxlb2ZmZXIudHYvZnN3L3JlbS8= From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 12 18:09:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 12 18:09:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25482 invoked by uid 1020); 12 May 2003 18:09:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25478 invoked from network); 12 May 2003 18:09:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 May 2003 18:09:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5CCAC19A6A; Mon, 12 May 2003 05:09:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A756919A2A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 05:08:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19F96i-00078P-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 12 May 2003 09:56:28 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EBC7855.8050007@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <3EBB29D8.7030200@null.net>, <622b8580ff4fa7e12cb655bf19694fe8@vitanuova.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 08:55:45 GMT rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > don't most >8bit character encodings (including unicode) provide at > least one code point to represent "not a character"? We're not talking about character codes, but rather data obtained via getc(). It could be an arbitrary binary stream. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 12 18:12:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 12 18:12:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25571 invoked by uid 1020); 12 May 2003 18:12:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25567 invoked from network); 12 May 2003 18:12:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 May 2003 18:12:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6286B19A94; Mon, 12 May 2003 05:12:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0850519A72 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 05:11:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19F96j-00078V-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 12 May 2003 09:56:29 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EBC79C1.3020106@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable References: <4a4de33a.0305090734.8277dd8@posting.google.com> Subject: [9fans] Re: Ada for Plan9 yet? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 08:56:06 GMT M=E1rio Amado Alves wrote: > However I would like to know in advance if it supports the Ada > language, ... One would really need a whole environment, and so far as I am aware nobody using Plan 9 has sufficient interest in supporting Ada. Remember, Plan 9 is a research tool, not a DoD-product platform. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 12 18:13:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 12 18:13:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25589 invoked by uid 1020); 12 May 2003 18:13:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25585 invoked from network); 12 May 2003 18:13:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 May 2003 18:13:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C4C1219A72; Mon, 12 May 2003 05:13:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CC01519A7B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 05:12:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19F97G-0007A1-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 12 May 2003 09:57:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EBDBBDC.3090300@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <3EBBF24B.3020508@ameritech.net>, <1052587025.734.55.camel@pc118> Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 08:56:43 GMT John Murdie wrote: > (To counter my own argument, though, I remember reading something that - > I think - Doug McIlroy wrote about error handling code in telephone > exchanges; the code had been known to recover successfully from errors > that the designers had not anticipated. That said, I'd rather not trust > to such luck.) The point is, it wasn't luck, but rather a global strategy that would handle whatever had not been explcitly identified in advance as a possible problem. The problem with embedded error recovery in predicate-transform approach is that the Boolean expressions become unwieldy very quickly; by their nature exceptional conditions are a wart that don't fit cleanly into the main logic flow. If you cram them into the main flow anyway, then the complexity increases to the point that no programmer can completely grasp it. Of course, for "toy systems" almost anything will work if enough thought goes into it, but for large, intrinsically messy systems, methodology for bringing complexity under control is essential. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 12 18:13:57 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 12 18:13:57 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25629 invoked by uid 1020); 12 May 2003 18:13:57 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25625 invoked from network); 12 May 2003 18:13:57 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 May 2003 18:13:57 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8D0D619A7F; Mon, 12 May 2003 05:13:19 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8388A19A90 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 05:12:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19F97G-00079p-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 12 May 2003 09:57:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Anthony Mandic Message-ID: <3EBC8B2B.99AEB6F2@start.com.au> Organization: Mandic Consulting Pty. Ltd. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: , <009901c316af$fce59ca0$e3944251@insultant.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 08:56:31 GMT "boyd, rounin" wrote: > > > Is this why Plan9 uses pjw as the catchall glyph? > > those who forget their history are doomed to repeat it ... > > ever seen the pjw labs management hierarchy diagram? No, never. > or the t-shirt, or the tower, or the stolen tower template, or the thief, or the > accused thief? Can you be less obscure and elaborate? -am © 2003 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 12 18:14:53 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 12 18:14:53 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25651 invoked by uid 1020); 12 May 2003 18:14:53 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25647 invoked from network); 12 May 2003 18:14:53 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 May 2003 18:14:53 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E934219AAD; Mon, 12 May 2003 05:13:26 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E849119A7F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 05:12:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19F97H-0007AB-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 12 May 2003 09:57:03 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EBE682C.90500@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <3EBE6DAE.7080307@ameritech.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] Postcript Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 08:56:58 GMT northern snowfall wrote: > everyone's recommendation on generating Postscript > files from Word Docs? Create a printer, using Apple LaserWriter II NT on FILE: port, and call it "PostScript to file". Then print to it like any other printer, and a dialogue box will open up allowing you to specify a filename. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 12 18:15:51 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 12 18:15:51 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25678 invoked by uid 1020); 12 May 2003 18:15:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25671 invoked from network); 12 May 2003 18:15:51 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 May 2003 18:15:51 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2D22819AB8; Mon, 12 May 2003 05:13:35 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 76EF219A72 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 05:12:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19F96j-00078b-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 12 May 2003 09:56:29 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EBC7A62.8090800@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <000a01c3165c$eaeeb2a0$d3944251@SOMA>, Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 08:56:18 GMT ron minnich wrote: > yes, the whole bitfield thing is a total botch when it cames to real > hardware. Truly bad things happen. Bad things sometimes happen even with access of memory- mapped device registers via ordinary integer types. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 12 18:23:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 12 18:23:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25954 invoked by uid 1020); 12 May 2003 18:23:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25950 invoked from network); 12 May 2003 18:23:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 May 2003 18:23:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3475E19AA7; Mon, 12 May 2003 05:23:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr7.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1B73919A90 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 05:22:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr7.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id OVM26765; Mon, 12 May 2003 05:22:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFX73614; Mon, 12 May 2003 05:22:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005b01c31868$1f15e5a0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <4a4de33a.0305090734.8277dd8@posting.google.com> <3EBC79C1.3020106@null.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Ada for Plan9 yet? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 11:23:16 +0200 Mário Amado Alves wrote: > However I would like to know in advance if it supports the Ada > language, ... so we need an asteroid to squish a bug? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 12 18:26:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 12 18:26:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26102 invoked by uid 1020); 12 May 2003 18:26:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26095 invoked from network); 12 May 2003 18:26:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 May 2003 18:26:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C936719ABA; Mon, 12 May 2003 05:26:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr7.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E5B9D19AAC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 05:25:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr7.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id OVM26974; Mon, 12 May 2003 05:25:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFX73892; Mon, 12 May 2003 05:25:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <006701c31868$897334c0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3EBBF24B.3020508@ameritech.net>, <1052587025.734.55.camel@pc118> <3EBDBBDC.3090300@null.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 11:26:15 +0200 digital telephony, 2nd ed, john bellamy From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 12 18:28:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 12 18:28:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26304 invoked by uid 1020); 12 May 2003 18:28:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26300 invoked from network); 12 May 2003 18:28:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 May 2003 18:28:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5480C19AC6; Mon, 12 May 2003 05:28:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr8.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA46F19AC0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 05:27:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr8.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id ALB26914; Mon, 12 May 2003 05:27:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFX74006; Mon, 12 May 2003 05:27:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <006d01c31868$b6f54aa0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: , <009901c316af$fce59ca0$e3944251@insultant.net> <3EBC8B2B.99AEB6F2@start.com.au> Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 11:27:31 +0200 > Can you be less obscure and elaborate? never ask a question you don't know the answer to :) there are always 3 responses. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 12 18:30:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 12 18:30:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26351 invoked by uid 1020); 12 May 2003 18:30:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26347 invoked from network); 12 May 2003 18:30:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 May 2003 18:30:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D9AB119ACC; Mon, 12 May 2003 05:30:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr7.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 62B1319AB0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 05:29:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr7.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id OVM27235; Mon, 12 May 2003 05:29:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFX74190; Mon, 12 May 2003 05:29:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <007501c31869$067269a0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <000a01c3165c$eaeeb2a0$d3944251@SOMA>, <3EBC7A62.8090800@null.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] struct problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 11:29:44 +0200 > Bad things sometimes happen even with access of memory- > mapped device registers via ordinary integer types. '780 extract field on a 16 bit UBA device register .... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 12 22:20:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 12 22:20:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31013 invoked by uid 1020); 12 May 2003 22:20:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31009 invoked from network); 12 May 2003 22:20:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 May 2003 22:20:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D1BE819AC9; Mon, 12 May 2003 09:20:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 769D219AA0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 09:19:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <85fef4168411910cbe578f9313301080@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere In-Reply-To: <3EBDBBDC.3090300@null.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-erixiuoebvqmkjuozqzwuyhsos" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 09:19:36 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-erixiuoebvqmkjuozqzwuyhsos Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I love religious arguments. In #5ESS, error handling was a large % of the code. It involved in line checks, dead man timers, separate auditing systems, and lots of code review to make sure there were no `don't care' cases. It was incredibly messy and fragile. Exceptions might have cleaned up some part of it but most of the process was trying to avoid being sloppy. Much of that could be automated through tools, path analysis, and testing. The complexity is still there with inline error handling or exception mechanisms. Separating the exception code can (but not always will) clean up the main flow. It also reduces the number of places you can 'forget' to check. Unfortunately, the further from the main flow it moves, the less likely that it will be updated when the main flow changes. This has caused us almost as many errors over time as missing an exception case. At the very least the exception catcher has to be in the scope of what its cleaning up or everything (recoverable) in the main flow has to be global. However, the important part is handling all the possible error states. The really unforseen ones (except for the odd nil pointer reference or divide by zero) don't throw exceptions. In #5ESS, the auditing code was the mechanism for these kinds of errors. The auditing code continually scanned the state of switch boards, processes, and memory to make sure states didn't exist that were considered 'impossible'. Of course this meant enumerating forseen states. If you stepped outside of the forseen, it was time for action (reset the switch, kill processes, switch to another processor, ...). This is a really hard way to program and not something I'ld normally do. --upas-erixiuoebvqmkjuozqzwuyhsos Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon May 12 05:13:17 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Mon May 12 05:13:15 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D23719A97; Mon, 12 May 2003 05:13:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CC01519A7B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 05:12:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19F97G-0007A1-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 12 May 2003 09:57:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EBDBBDC.3090300@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <3EBBF24B.3020508@ameritech.net>, <1052587025.734.55.camel@pc118> Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 08:56:43 GMT John Murdie wrote: > (To counter my own argument, though, I remember reading something that - > I think - Doug McIlroy wrote about error handling code in telephone > exchanges; the code had been known to recover successfully from errors > that the designers had not anticipated. That said, I'd rather not trust > to such luck.) The point is, it wasn't luck, but rather a global strategy that would handle whatever had not been explcitly identified in advance as a possible problem. The problem with embedded error recovery in predicate-transform approach is that the Boolean expressions become unwieldy very quickly; by their nature exceptional conditions are a wart that don't fit cleanly into the main logic flow. If you cram them into the main flow anyway, then the complexity increases to the point that no programmer can completely grasp it. Of course, for "toy systems" almost anything will work if enough thought goes into it, but for large, intrinsically messy systems, methodology for bringing complexity under control is essential. --upas-erixiuoebvqmkjuozqzwuyhsos-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 12 22:26:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 12 22:26:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31198 invoked by uid 1020); 12 May 2003 22:26:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31194 invoked from network); 12 May 2003 22:26:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 May 2003 22:26:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 62C0819AC5; Mon, 12 May 2003 09:26:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr9.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9F98F19A60 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 09:25:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr9.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id PFA50631; Mon, 12 May 2003 09:23:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFY00637; Mon, 12 May 2003 09:23:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <023401c31889$b4741b00$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <85fef4168411910cbe578f9313301080@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 15:23:40 +0200 non local gotos are not your friend From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 12 23:49:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 12 23:49:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 359 invoked by uid 1020); 12 May 2003 23:49:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 355 invoked from network); 12 May 2003 23:49:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 May 2003 23:49:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9AA5619A0D; Mon, 12 May 2003 10:49:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ns.dbSystems.com (ns.dbSystems.com [67.65.88.161]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0049E19980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 10:47:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kds (gw.eot.dbSystems.com [67.65.88.165]) by ns.dbSystems.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with SMTP id h4CEDLG26334 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 09:13:22 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from gdb@dbSystems.com) Message-ID: <003301c31895$6513dc60$644cb2cc@kds> From: "David Butler" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <85fef4168411910cbe578f9313301080@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: complex embedded systems was [9fans] same functions everywhere MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 09:46:44 -0500 Ah, religious arguments. My life is full of them. [This is only remotely related to exception handling in a language and more about implementing complex systems, including handling exceptions.] All this talk of large and complex embedded systems reminds me of a problem I had while doing the electrical power subsystem software of the F-22. The F-22 has more need for electricity than it can generate (something about needing to keep the weight of the generators down). The design called for all other subsystems to "request" power and the electrical software made the decision of what to turn on based on requests, sensors, power generation, damaged power distribution systems, etc. etc. etc... There were hundreds of inputs and the little 16 bit TI processor had to drive outputs 20 times a second! If that was not hard enough, the requirements changed hourly. We would get these "state tables" from subsystem engineers to describe their little part of the world. It was amazing what went into deciding which fuel pumps to turn on to help keep the plane balanced... :) So I created a tool. It helped with the description (allows using "spread sheet" programs to edit the "tables") analysis (ambiguous states, unused inputs, etc.), coding (nested if's or, if the nesting went beyond the compiler's ability, flat jump code), and optimization (minimized the worse case number of inputs that need to be checked at any time). And by using the ELSE feature, I could easily identify the exceptions. I would usually give that input back to the subsystem team for analysis. If you are really twisted and like these kind of things you can find more information at www.dbSystems.com/stc/. David ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Presotto" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 8:19 AM Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere > I love religious arguments. > > In #5ESS, error handling was a large % of the code. It involved > in line checks, dead man timers, separate auditing systems, > and lots of code review to make sure there were no `don't care' > cases. It was incredibly messy and fragile. Exceptions might > have cleaned up some part of it but most of the process was > trying to avoid being sloppy. Much of that could be > automated through tools, path analysis, and testing. > > The complexity is still there with inline error handling or > exception mechanisms. Separating the exception code can > (but not always will) clean up the main flow. It also > reduces the number of places you can 'forget' to check. > Unfortunately, the further from the main flow it moves, the > less likely that it will be updated when the main flow changes. > This has caused us almost as many errors over time as missing > an exception case. At the very least the exception catcher has to be in the > scope of what its cleaning up or everything (recoverable) in > the main flow has to be global. > > However, the important part is handling all the possible > error states. The really unforseen ones (except for the odd > nil pointer reference or divide by zero) don't throw > exceptions. In #5ESS, the auditing code was the mechanism > for these kinds of errors. The auditing code continually > scanned the state of switch boards, processes, and memory > to make sure states didn't exist that were considered > 'impossible'. Of course this meant enumerating forseen > states. If you stepped outside of the forseen, it was > time for action (reset the switch, kill processes, switch > to another processor, ...). This is a really hard way to > program and not something I'ld normally do. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 13 00:17:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 13 00:17:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 906 invoked by uid 1020); 13 May 2003 00:17:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 902 invoked from network); 13 May 2003 00:17:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 May 2003 00:17:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4FACB19A71; Mon, 12 May 2003 11:17:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from auemail1.firewall.lucent.com (auemail1.lucent.com [192.11.223.161]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AEECB199A3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 11:16:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ma8117exch001u.wins.lucent.com (h152-148-89-175.lucent.com [152.148.89.175]) by auemail1.firewall.lucent.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id h4CFGXg04536 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 11:16:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ma8117exch001u.inse.lucent.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 12 May 2003 11:16:32 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Warrier, Sadanand (Sadanand)" To: "'9fans@cse.psu.edu'" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain Subject: [9fans] reliable udp Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 11:16:26 -0400 Dave Your original implementation of rudp on Plan 9. I seem to remember you saying that you had it running in user space before you moved it to the kernel. Am I right? Thanks S From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 13 00:19:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 13 00:19:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 924 invoked by uid 1020); 13 May 2003 00:19:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 920 invoked from network); 13 May 2003 00:19:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 May 2003 00:19:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A9D2819A90; Mon, 12 May 2003 11:19:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from auemail1.firewall.lucent.com (auemail1.lucent.com [192.11.223.161]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5044D19A80 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 11:18:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ma8117exch001u.wins.lucent.com (h152-148-89-175.lucent.com [152.148.89.175]) by auemail1.firewall.lucent.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id h4CFIDg05780 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 11:18:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ma8117exch001u.inse.lucent.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 12 May 2003 11:18:12 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Warrier, Sadanand (Sadanand)" To: "'9fans@cse.psu.edu'" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: RE: [9fans] reliable udp MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 11:18:04 -0400 Sorry That was a private mail to Dave Presotto. S From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 13 00:27:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 13 00:27:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1065 invoked by uid 1020); 13 May 2003 00:27:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1061 invoked from network); 13 May 2003 00:27:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 May 2003 00:27:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 98213199E3; Mon, 12 May 2003 11:27:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5672719980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 11:27:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19FF2Z-0004cr-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 12 May 2003 16:16:35 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1rio_Amado_Alves?= Message-ID: <4a4de33a.0305120628.29ce114a@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <4a4de33a.0305090734.8277dd8@posting.google.com>, <005b01c31868$1f15e5a0$e3944251@insultant.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Ada for Plan9 yet? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 15:16:03 GMT > > However I would like to know in advance if it supports the Ada > > language, ... > > so we need an asteroid to squish a bug? What bug? <> (R.I.Eachus, on comp.lang.ada) Now less jestly, I recommend updating your perception of Ada: http://www.cs.kuleuven.ac.be/~dirk/ada-belgium/myths.html And please note I AM NOT PUSHING ADA ON ANYONE, C was my first true love, so please no language flames. --Marius From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 13 00:28:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 13 00:28:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1086 invoked by uid 1020); 13 May 2003 00:28:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1082 invoked from network); 13 May 2003 00:28:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 May 2003 00:28:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8274A19980; Mon, 12 May 2003 11:28:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7564019980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 11:27:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19FF23-0004bW-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 12 May 2003 16:16:03 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1rio_Amado_Alves?= Message-ID: <4a4de33a.0305120603.68409800@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <4a4de33a.0305090734.8277dd8@posting.google.com>, <3EBC79C1.3020106@null.net> Subject: [9fans] Re: Ada for Plan9 yet? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 15:15:51 GMT > One would really need a whole environment, and so far as > I am aware nobody using Plan 9 has sufficient interest > in supporting Ada. Nobody *developing* Plan 9, maybe. Users exist, and surely people atracted to Plan 9, who happen to be Adaists. I hope there is no language 'politics' going on around Plan 9. > Remember, Plan 9 is a research tool, > not a DoD-product platform. Wrong assumption? Ada is on the 'desktop' now. I am myself a researcher (in computer science). My lab currently runs a Linux LAN. Some Windows on laptops. I see Plan 9 as a solution to many system administration and hardware allocation problems we currently have. Languages we use are Ada, C, Prolog, R, and others. I'll try a small Plan 9 installation soon and see how far I can get compiling GNAT or another free Ada compiler on it. I suspect the only big problem that may arise is in the area of concurrency, as I think GNAT uses a thread library to implement Ada tasks, and Plan 9 has a different scheme. On the other hand, I see Plan 9 as a much better environment to implement the DSA (Distributed Systems Annex), Ada distributed computing features. (Even WRT the threads, from what I've read so far, it seems easy to map Linux threads to Plan 9 processes which BTW I also find a better concurrency scheme, actually also more in line with Ada's concurrency model.) Thanks, --Marius From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 13 00:39:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 13 00:39:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1247 invoked by uid 1020); 13 May 2003 00:39:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1243 invoked from network); 13 May 2003 00:39:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 May 2003 00:39:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F2AD019992; Mon, 12 May 2003 11:39:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr7.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DB47E19A7B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 11:38:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr7.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id OVM69419; Mon, 12 May 2003 11:36:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFY32799; Mon, 12 May 2003 11:36:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <007601c3189c$50de0c00$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] reliable udp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 17:36:53 +0200 the hack (sic) define existed as SOCK_RDGRAM (iirc) on BSD, but was never implemented. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 13 00:43:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 13 00:43:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1328 invoked by uid 1020); 13 May 2003 00:43:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1324 invoked from network); 13 May 2003 00:43:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 May 2003 00:43:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3DEFF19AA0; Mon, 12 May 2003 11:43:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr9.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6558519A2A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 11:42:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr9.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id PFA73777; Mon, 12 May 2003 11:42:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFY34171; Mon, 12 May 2003 11:42:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <007e01c3189d$20a7b620$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <4a4de33a.0305090734.8277dd8@posting.google.com>, <005b01c31868$1f15e5a0$e3944251@insultant.net> <4a4de33a.0305120628.29ce114a@posting.google.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Ada for Plan9 yet? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 17:42:42 +0200 > And please note I AM NOT PUSHING ADA ON ANYONE, C was my first true > love, so please no language flames. the James J. Angleton 'hall of mirrors' ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 13 00:46:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 13 00:46:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1367 invoked by uid 1020); 13 May 2003 00:46:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1363 invoked from network); 13 May 2003 00:46:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 May 2003 00:46:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2F11919AAE; Mon, 12 May 2003 11:46:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr8.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D364B19AAE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 11:45:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr8.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id ALB71021; Mon, 12 May 2003 11:44:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFY34718; Mon, 12 May 2003 11:44:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <008701c3189d$6a82e080$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <4a4de33a.0305090734.8277dd8@posting.google.com>, <3EBC79C1.3020106@null.net> <4a4de33a.0305120603.68409800@posting.google.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Ada for Plan9 yet? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 17:44:45 +0200 > Nobody *developing* Plan 9, maybe. Users exist, and surely people > atracted to Plan 9, who happen to be Adaists. ROLFV From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 13 01:18:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 13 01:18:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1849 invoked by uid 1020); 13 May 2003 01:18:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1845 invoked from network); 13 May 2003 01:18:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 May 2003 01:18:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B40F219AA9; Mon, 12 May 2003 12:18:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr8.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CC60B199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 12:17:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr8.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id ALB72297; Mon, 12 May 2003 11:51:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFY36458; Mon, 12 May 2003 11:51:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00c601c3189e$5901dea0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3EBB29D8.7030200@null.net>, <622b8580ff4fa7e12cb655bf19694fe8@vitanuova.com> <3EBC7855.8050007@null.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 17:51:26 +0200 From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" > rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > > don't most >8bit character encodings (including unicode) provide at > > least one code point to represent "not a character"? > > We're not talking about character codes, but rather data > obtained via getc(). It could be an arbitrary binary stream. yup, getc() returns 8 bits. it does not return unicode chars or unicode codespace characters. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 13 01:45:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 13 01:45:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2259 invoked by uid 1020); 13 May 2003 01:45:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2255 invoked from network); 13 May 2003 01:45:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 May 2003 01:45:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7914B19AB2; Mon, 12 May 2003 12:45:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6558F19A9D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 12:44:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <00c601c3189e$5901dea0$e3944251@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 17:48:09 +0100 > From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" > > rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > > > don't most >8bit character encodings (including unicode) provide at > > > least one code point to represent "not a character"? > > > > We're not talking about character codes, but rather data > > obtained via getc(). It could be an arbitrary binary stream. > > yup, getc() returns 8 bits. it does not return unicode chars or unicode > codespace characters. if that's the case then doug's original objection isn't a problem, as you're guaranteed that int has more than 8 bits, so there's always space for a representation of EOF. i'm slightly doubtful that the standard actually says 8 bits though. K&R just says "returns the next character", which could mean anything. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 13 01:56:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 13 01:56:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2444 invoked by uid 1020); 13 May 2003 01:56:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2440 invoked from network); 13 May 2003 01:56:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 May 2003 01:56:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C979019ACE; Mon, 12 May 2003 12:56:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6BE1A19ABC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 12:55:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7f2c511ffa24a8d09c5e9650bb7ff5c5@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Ada for Plan9 yet? From: C H Forsyth In-Reply-To: <4a4de33a.0305120603.68409800@posting.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 17:58:30 +0100 i believe you'd need to push Ada rather than pull it to port it, since the Ada front end is written in Ada. in other words, i believe you need a working GNAT cross-compiling for Plan 9 on some other system to bootstrap it. that makes it trickier, unless the cross-compilation environment for Plan 9 from Unix is in the Plan 9 gcc package. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 13 01:58:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 13 01:58:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2462 invoked by uid 1020); 13 May 2003 01:58:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2458 invoked from network); 13 May 2003 01:58:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 May 2003 01:58:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 47F6B19AC7; Mon, 12 May 2003 12:58:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr8.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 69C1119ABC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 12:57:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr8.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id ALB83519; Mon, 12 May 2003 12:54:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFY52857; Mon, 12 May 2003 12:54:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <019601c318a7$345b2760$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 18:54:50 +0200 > i'm slightly doubtful that the standard actually says 8 bits though. > K&R just says "returns the next character", which could mean anything. getc() always returned an int (>= 16 bits) and EOF was -1, so there is no confusion. get it wrong and it will bite you one day; what was the paper that described feeding 'random' bit stream into lunix (sic) filters? i forget, but a lot of 'em broke. ashes to ashes dust to dust if you hack the kernel it's gonna bust -- bassoids From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 13 01:59:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 13 01:59:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2470 invoked by uid 1020); 13 May 2003 01:59:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2466 invoked from network); 13 May 2003 01:59:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 May 2003 01:59:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C443619AD1; Mon, 12 May 2003 12:59:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr8.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C4B7C19AD2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 12:58:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr8.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id ALB84110; Mon, 12 May 2003 12:58:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFY53714; Mon, 12 May 2003 12:58:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <019e01c318a7$b2ebaaa0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <7f2c511ffa24a8d09c5e9650bb7ff5c5@vitanuova.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Ada for Plan9 yet? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 18:58:22 +0200 > i believe you'd need to push Ada rather than pull it to port it, > since the Ada front end is written in Ada. reminds me of this thing called Tex; tangle & weave & the P word From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 13 02:19:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 13 02:19:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2804 invoked by uid 1020); 13 May 2003 02:19:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2800 invoked from network); 13 May 2003 02:19:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 May 2003 02:19:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8D2BB19AD5; Mon, 12 May 2003 13:19:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C048519ABC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 13:18:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3afc1f4defb71eb39b20882e5243fb22@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <1052497182.736.14.camel@pc118> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 18:22:01 +0100 > I agree with those here that hold the opinion that exceptions are no > substitute for a well-thought-out and well-notated program (we used to > call it "structured programming"). Need error handling obscure the > "all's well" logic of the program? leaving safety-critical systems aside (where every error *must* be handled appropriately), there are runtime errors that can occur with very low probability which mean that the program is unable to proceed. in many programs, the only reasonable thing to do in such a case is to exit. in some others, there might be other actions that are worth performing (e.g. an editor might save current work; a multi-threaded program might kill the other threads, etc). if i wish to enable such a thing without any sort of exceptions, there must be a return path back from *any* function that calls (directly or indirectly) any other function that can incur one of these errors. i.e. it is never acceptable to write a function f returning type T without also providing an additional error return (which must then be propagated up the stack). the additional error return, and the code necessary to check and propagate the error, certainly seems like clutter to me, since i would otherwise choose not to handle the error (or activate some "fingers-crossed" recovery mechanism). the exception mechanism also enables me to catch errors generated by the run-time-system, where there's no obvious place to handle the error (e.g. stack overflow, division by zero). note that it's only clutter *because* i would have chosen not to try to handle the error. thus i would not count the error checking code around fopen as clutter, because i will almost always choose to handle that error appropriately (e.g. by printing a sensible error message). safety-critical systems are very different in this respect. perhaps in this kind of system, every division operation *should* have a check for division by zero around it... cheers, rog. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 13 02:22:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 13 02:22:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2861 invoked by uid 1020); 13 May 2003 02:22:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2857 invoked from network); 13 May 2003 02:22:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 May 2003 02:22:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ED6D819ABC; Mon, 12 May 2003 13:21:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr9.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8BBEC19ABC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 13:20:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr9.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id PFA91374; Mon, 12 May 2003 13:20:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFY59605; Mon, 12 May 2003 13:20:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <021001c318aa$e1511440$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <85fef4168411910cbe578f9313301080@plan9.bell-labs.com> <003301c31895$6513dc60$644cb2cc@kds> Subject: Re: complex embedded systems was [9fans] same functions everywhere MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 19:21:09 +0200 > The F-22 has more need for electricity than it can generate (something > about needing to keep the weight of the generators down). isn't that the international signal to run away? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 13 02:31:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 13 02:31:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2991 invoked by uid 1020); 13 May 2003 02:31:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2986 invoked from network); 13 May 2003 02:31:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 May 2003 02:31:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E269519ADB; Mon, 12 May 2003 13:31:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DD1A019AD9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 13:30:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Sape Mullender In-Reply-To: <3afc1f4defb71eb39b20882e5243fb22@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] (Re:) Exception handling Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 13:30:24 -0400 I have `ported' (it's so trivial, it doesn't deserve being calleda port) the kernel's exception mechanism (error, waserror, nexterror, poperror) to a largish application we're building for a high-speed wireless switch. I did this after we already had a lot of conventional error checking in the code, e.g., snprint(buf, sizeof(buf), "add %s 255.255.255.255 %s %d proxy", con->locaddr, con->remaddr, 2048); if(fprint(cfd, "%s", buf) < 0){ close(cfd); return "can't set addresses"; } if(fprint(cfd, "iprouting 1") < 0){ close(cfd); return "can't set iprouting"; } (This routine used a nn-nil return as an error indication). The caller of this routine would have a similar test: if (error = ipsetup(con)){ cleanup(); ... Converting the whole app from this error checking style to using waserror, etc. took some time, but in the end it did reduce code size and it made the code more legible. It also made it harder to ignore unhandled errors deep in several layers of subroutines. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 13 02:33:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 13 02:33:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3042 invoked by uid 1020); 13 May 2003 02:33:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3038 invoked from network); 13 May 2003 02:33:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 May 2003 02:33:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3DF9C19ADD; Mon, 12 May 2003 13:33:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4E65019ADD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 13:32:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4CHWec36875; Mon, 12 May 2003 13:32:40 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: <50a8ececdf41a30e2c23b8b35de4ba04@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] (Re:) Exception handling From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 13:32:40 -0400 I used exception handling once and it made everything better. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 13 02:34:02 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 13 02:34:02 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3057 invoked by uid 1020); 13 May 2003 02:34:02 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3053 invoked from network); 13 May 2003 02:34:01 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 May 2003 02:34:01 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2EB5519AE1; Mon, 12 May 2003 13:33:23 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 03D3719ADA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 13:32:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4CHWhc36879; Mon, 12 May 2003 13:32:43 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] (Re:) Exception handling From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 13:32:43 -0400 I used exception handling once and it made everything worse. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 13 02:37:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 13 02:37:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3090 invoked by uid 1020); 13 May 2003 02:37:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3086 invoked from network); 13 May 2003 02:37:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 May 2003 02:37:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C18EF19AE4; Mon, 12 May 2003 13:37:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr7.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 41D9E19ADC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 13:36:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr7.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id OVM90365; Mon, 12 May 2003 13:36:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFY63591; Mon, 12 May 2003 13:36:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <023901c318ad$06ecd8e0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3afc1f4defb71eb39b20882e5243fb22@vitanuova.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 19:36:30 +0200 > leaving safety-critical systems aside ... every system is 'safety-critical'; i want perfection ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 13 02:40:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 13 02:40:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3147 invoked by uid 1020); 13 May 2003 02:40:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3143 invoked from network); 13 May 2003 02:40:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 May 2003 02:40:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8523919AEB; Mon, 12 May 2003 13:39:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D117F19AC0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 13:38:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] (Re:) Exception handling From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <50a8ececdf41a30e2c23b8b35de4ba04@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 19:38:56 +0200 My experience with error handling has been very much like Sape said in his post. I get cleaner code with my `port' of the kernel expection handling than I get with if ( ! dothis() ){ handle the failure } if ( ! dothat() ){ handle the failure } Although code can get obscured if exceptions are used badly, the same happens with traditional error checking. In the end, I think it's the programmer what counts, and not the particular error handling mechanism. I've seen both good and nasty code with and without exceptions (regarding err handling). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 13 02:46:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 13 02:46:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3223 invoked by uid 1020); 13 May 2003 02:46:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3219 invoked from network); 13 May 2003 02:46:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 May 2003 02:46:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 290F419AE6; Mon, 12 May 2003 13:46:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr7.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1BBFE19ADA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 13:45:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr7.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id OVM91812; Mon, 12 May 2003 13:44:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFY65902; Mon, 12 May 2003 13:44:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <027901c318ae$3edaab00$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3EBBF24B.3020508@ameritech.net>, <1052587025.734.55.camel@pc118> <3EBDBBDC.3090300@null.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 19:45:14 +0200 > The problem with embedded error recovery in predicate-transform > approach is that the Boolean expressions become unwieldy very > quickly; by their nature exceptional conditions are a wart that > don't fit cleanly into the main logic flow. If you cram them > into the main flow anyway, then the complexity increases to the > point that no programmer can completely grasp it. spin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 13 02:48:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 13 02:48:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3280 invoked by uid 1020); 13 May 2003 02:48:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3275 invoked from network); 13 May 2003 02:48:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 May 2003 02:48:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 212A419ADF; Mon, 12 May 2003 13:48:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr8.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B82E19AEA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 13:47:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr8.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id ALB91662; Mon, 12 May 2003 13:42:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFY65024; Mon, 12 May 2003 13:42:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <024901c318ad$d7cab220$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] (Re:) Exception handling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 19:42:21 +0200 > In the end, I think it's the programmer what counts, and not the > particular error handling mechanism. 1 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 13 02:49:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 13 02:49:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3298 invoked by uid 1020); 13 May 2003 02:49:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3294 invoked from network); 13 May 2003 02:49:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 May 2003 02:49:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4276719AEC; Mon, 12 May 2003 13:49:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr7.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C08FF19AED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 13:48:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr7.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id OVM91178; Mon, 12 May 2003 13:41:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFY64829; Mon, 12 May 2003 13:41:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <023f01c318ad$b8b0a8e0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] (Re:) Exception handling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 19:41:29 +0200 > Converting the whole app from this error checking style to using waserror, etc. > took some time, but in the end it did reduce code size and it made the code more > legible. It also made it harder to ignore unhandled errors deep in several > layers of subroutines. yup, invest some time at the beginning and avoid those false economies. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 13 03:24:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 13 03:24:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3701 invoked by uid 1020); 13 May 2003 03:24:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3697 invoked from network); 13 May 2003 03:24:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 May 2003 03:24:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 820BF19AE9; Mon, 12 May 2003 14:24:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr9.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4476F19ADC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 14:23:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr9.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id PFB00417; Mon, 12 May 2003 14:13:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFY73427; Mon, 12 May 2003 14:13:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <056501c318b2$3347e1a0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] (Re:) Exception handling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 20:13:33 +0200 > I used exception handling once and it made everything worse. i've seen it used badly 'and it made everything worse'. the maze of twisty little gotos, all alike ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 13 05:31:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 13 05:31:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5338 invoked by uid 1020); 13 May 2003 05:31:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5334 invoked from network); 13 May 2003 05:31:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 May 2003 05:31:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A7A4319AEF; Mon, 12 May 2003 16:31:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7864919AE5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 16:30:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13346 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 16:30:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h4CKUC518978 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 16:30:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305122030.h4CKUC518978@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] (Re:) Exception handling In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 12 May 2003 13:32:40 EDT." <50a8ececdf41a30e2c23b8b35de4ba04@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 16:30:12 -0400 > I used exception handling once and it made everything better. I have a loaf of stale bread at home, but I really want a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Which exception handling package would you recommend to make my bread better? - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 13 05:31:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 13 05:31:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5345 invoked by uid 1020); 13 May 2003 05:31:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5341 invoked from network); 13 May 2003 05:31:47 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 May 2003 05:31:47 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3F0D719AF3; Mon, 12 May 2003 16:31:24 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 79CC119A6E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 16:30:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13445 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 16:30:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h4CKUm518988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 16:30:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305122030.h4CKUm518988@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] (Re:) Exception handling In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 12 May 2003 13:32:43 EDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 16:30:47 -0400 > I used exception handling once and it made everything worse. Oh; was that what that ``swarm of locusts'' thing was all about? - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 13 05:38:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 13 05:38:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5399 invoked by uid 1020); 13 May 2003 05:38:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5395 invoked from network); 13 May 2003 05:38:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 May 2003 05:38:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9099C19A60; Mon, 12 May 2003 16:38:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr9.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6E9D019AE5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 16:37:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr9.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id PFB25142; Mon, 12 May 2003 16:37:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFZ09591; Mon, 12 May 2003 16:37:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00b301c318c6$4fb72620$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200305122030.h4CKUC518978@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] (Re:) Exception handling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 22:37:30 +0200 > I have a loaf of stale bread at home, but I really want a peanut butter > and jelly sandwich. Which exception handling package would you recommend > to make my bread better? the MP5-A[35] well, it'll make you feel better :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 13 05:39:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 13 05:39:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5406 invoked by uid 1020); 13 May 2003 05:39:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5402 invoked from network); 13 May 2003 05:39:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 May 2003 05:39:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B3FBF19AFE; Mon, 12 May 2003 16:39:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr8.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3233D19A60 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 16:38:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr8.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id ALC21476; Mon, 12 May 2003 16:38:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AFZ09823; Mon, 12 May 2003 16:38:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00b901c318c6$6caeeba0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200305122030.h4CKUm518988@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] (Re:) Exception handling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 22:38:19 +0200 > Oh; was that what that ``swarm of locusts'' thing was all about? yeah, we were a few miles out of barstow and ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 13 06:52:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 13 06:52:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6458 invoked by uid 1020); 13 May 2003 06:52:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6454 invoked from network); 13 May 2003 06:52:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 May 2003 06:52:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 930E019AFC; Mon, 12 May 2003 17:52:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.monitorbm.co.nz (mx2.monitorbm.co.nz [203.167.201.38]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3989219AD8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 17:51:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 538 invoked from network); 12 May 2003 21:51:20 -0000 Received: from mercury.mbmnz.co.nz (HELO MERCURY) (192.168.0.63) by mail.monitorbm.co.nz with SMTP; 12 May 2003 21:51:20 -0000 Message-ID: <049e01c318d1$02194d70$3f00a8c0@MERCURY> From: "Andrew Simmons" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Subject: [9fans] u9fs query Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 09:54:05 +1200 In the source I'm looking at for useropen, I see: case OREAD: a = R_OK; ... case OWRITE: a = R_OK; and subsequently if(S_ISDIR(fid->st.st_mode)){ if(a != R_OK){ fprint(2, "attempt by %s to open dir %d\n", fid->u->name, omode); *ep = Eperm; return -1; which seems to indicate that it's ok to open a directory for writing as well as reading, which I took open(5) to say was not allowed. Could some kind soul explain? Thanks. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 13 07:09:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 13 07:09:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6694 invoked by uid 1020); 13 May 2003 07:09:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6690 invoked from network); 13 May 2003 07:09:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 May 2003 07:09:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C4E7319B01; Mon, 12 May 2003 18:09:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7CF4E19AF4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 18:08:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8857b5f01c85ae22c7764f46da309e3c@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] u9fs query In-Reply-To: <049e01c318d1$02194d70$3f00a8c0@MERCURY> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 18:08:51 -0400 That should be "a = W_OK;". From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 13 17:03:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 13 17:03:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29293 invoked by uid 1020); 13 May 2003 17:03:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29289 invoked from network); 13 May 2003 17:03:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 May 2003 17:03:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9EEBF19B0A; Tue, 13 May 2003 04:03:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1FD6719A9D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 May 2003 04:02:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] u9fs query From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <049e01c318d1$02194d70$3f00a8c0@MERCURY> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-bngvzsmrdhqnmxqubyjjugqmcw" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 08:47:16 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-bngvzsmrdhqnmxqubyjjugqmcw Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i'd say it's a mistake. --upas-bngvzsmrdhqnmxqubyjjugqmcw Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 1052778092:10:13359:54; Mon, 12 May 2003 22:21:32 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1013406; 12 May 2003 22:21 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 930E019AFC; Mon, 12 May 2003 17:52:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.monitorbm.co.nz (mx2.monitorbm.co.nz [203.167.201.38]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3989219AD8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 May 2003 17:51:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 538 invoked from network); 12 May 2003 21:51:20 -0000 Received: from mercury.mbmnz.co.nz (HELO MERCURY) (192.168.0.63) by mail.monitorbm.co.nz with SMTP; 12 May 2003 21:51:20 -0000 Message-ID: <049e01c318d1$02194d70$3f00a8c0@MERCURY> From: "Andrew Simmons" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Subject: [9fans] u9fs query Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 09:54:05 +1200 In the source I'm looking at for useropen, I see: case OREAD: a = R_OK; ... case OWRITE: a = R_OK; and subsequently if(S_ISDIR(fid->st.st_mode)){ if(a != R_OK){ fprint(2, "attempt by %s to open dir %d\n", fid->u->name, omode); *ep = Eperm; return -1; which seems to indicate that it's ok to open a directory for writing as well as reading, which I took open(5) to say was not allowed. Could some kind soul explain? Thanks. --upas-bngvzsmrdhqnmxqubyjjugqmcw-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 13 17:29:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 13 17:29:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30390 invoked by uid 1020); 13 May 2003 17:29:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30386 invoked from network); 13 May 2003 17:29:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 May 2003 17:29:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CC77D19B0E; Tue, 13 May 2003 04:29:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E9BA0199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 May 2003 04:28:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8faa2a26b28986abef50c5ec114252a7@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] (Re:) Exception handling From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <024901c318ad$d7cab220$e3944251@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 10:28:05 +0200 >> In the end, I think it's the programmer what counts, and not the >> particular error handling mechanism. > > 1 465 nemo: replymail(): unknown exception From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 13 17:52:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 13 17:52:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31500 invoked by uid 1020); 13 May 2003 17:52:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31495 invoked from network); 13 May 2003 17:52:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 May 2003 17:52:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7F50019B13; Tue, 13 May 2003 04:52:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0722719AFD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 May 2003 04:51:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19FVEX-0007R5-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 13 May 2003 09:34:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Adrian Tritschler Message-ID: Organization: Monash University Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [9fans] drawterm problem with non 7-bit filenames Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 08:33:34 GMT Hopefully this is the right place for this one. I've never been able to get my laptop's ethernet card to work with p9, so= I'm fiddling around with a system that consists of an Auth/CPU/kfs server and= a part-time diskless CPU server, talking to a WindowsXP laptop running draw= term. Drawterm spits up dialog boxes with error messages for file names that it finds that have characters out of the 1..127 range. The dialog boxes are titled "iprint" and have a text of "dir: bad path ..." with the full path= of the file. An example file is dir /b Shar* c:> Shared =83.ico dir /b Shar* | od -c 0000000 S h a r e d 237 . i c o \r \n Are there any updates to drawterm? Adrian --------------------------------------------------------------- Adrian Tritschler mailto:Adrian.Tritschler@its.monash.edu.au Latitude 38=B0S, Longitude 145=B0E, Altitude 50m, Shoe size 44 --------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 13 17:52:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 13 17:52:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31512 invoked by uid 1020); 13 May 2003 17:52:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31507 invoked from network); 13 May 2003 17:52:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 May 2003 17:52:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1BCBF19B1C; Tue, 13 May 2003 04:52:21 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DF3B919AFD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 May 2003 04:51:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19FVEX-0007Qw-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 13 May 2003 09:34:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EBFE68A.18744A52@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <3EBB29D8.7030200@null.net>, <00c601c3189e$5901dea0$e3944251@insultant.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 08:33:20 GMT "boyd, rounin" wrote: > yup, getc() returns 8 bits. Actually an integer value representable using CHAR_BIT bits. Even as of K&R 1st Ed. it wasn't necessarily exactly 8 bits. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 13 21:22:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 13 21:22:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4406 invoked by uid 1020); 13 May 2003 21:22:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4402 invoked from network); 13 May 2003 21:22:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 May 2003 21:22:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 145EC19B37; Tue, 13 May 2003 08:22:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 97D74199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 May 2003 08:21:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <023901c318ad$06ecd8e0$e3944251@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 13:24:57 +0100 > > leaving safety-critical systems aside ... > > every system is 'safety-critical'; i want perfection ... cost <-> benefit From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 13 22:10:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 13 22:10:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5296 invoked by uid 1020); 13 May 2003 22:10:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5292 invoked from network); 13 May 2003 22:10:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 May 2003 22:10:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE9B119B36; Tue, 13 May 2003 09:10:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 138E219B36 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 May 2003 09:09:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3f8734f2e156e644c60414e47b867c85@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm problem with non 7-bit filenames In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-rgkgikseaupendwxemltfuuvnt" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 09:09:14 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-rgkgikseaupendwxemltfuuvnt Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit drawterm is completely unsupported. --upas-rgkgikseaupendwxemltfuuvnt Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue May 13 04:52:22 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Tue May 13 04:52:20 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5B67519B11; Tue, 13 May 2003 04:52:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0722719AFD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 May 2003 04:51:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19FVEX-0007R5-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 13 May 2003 09:34:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Adrian Tritschler Message-ID: Organization: Monash University Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [9fans] drawterm problem with non 7-bit filenames Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 08:33:34 GMT Hopefully this is the right place for this one. I've never been able to get my laptop's ethernet card to work with p9, so= I'm fiddling around with a system that consists of an Auth/CPU/kfs server and= a part-time diskless CPU server, talking to a WindowsXP laptop running draw= term. Drawterm spits up dialog boxes with error messages for file names that it finds that have characters out of the 1..127 range. The dialog boxes are titled "iprint" and have a text of "dir: bad path ..." with the full path= of the file. An example file is dir /b Shar* c:> Shared =83.ico dir /b Shar* | od -c 0000000 S h a r e d 237 . i c o \r \n Are there any updates to drawterm? Adrian --------------------------------------------------------------- Adrian Tritschler mailto:Adrian.Tritschler@its.monash.edu.au Latitude 38=B0S, Longitude 145=B0E, Altitude 50m, Shoe size 44 --------------------------------------------------------------- --upas-rgkgikseaupendwxemltfuuvnt-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 13 22:24:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 13 22:24:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5613 invoked by uid 1020); 13 May 2003 22:24:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5609 invoked from network); 13 May 2003 22:24:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 May 2003 22:24:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C236819B3A; Tue, 13 May 2003 09:24:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from netscape.com (r2d2.aoltw.net [64.236.137.26]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9925E19B0F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 May 2003 09:23:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yoda.mcom.com ([10.128.72.204]) by netscape.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id h4DDNGE12048 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 May 2003 06:23:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from will5510 ([10.128.74.235]) by yoda.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id HETUIU00.OHC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 May 2003 13:23:18 +0000 Message-ID: <043201c31952$b8fdf690$eb4a800a@will5510> From: "will551" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4922.1500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4925.2800 Subject: [9fans] Tcl835Plan9 Readme Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 14:22:37 +0100 hi The readme that came with the distribution of Tcl for Plan 9 was slightly wrong - if you are tarring up "myapeincludes" you should first cd to "myapeincludes" the new readme is on the web page http://geocities.com/will5514 l8r will551 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 13 23:20:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 13 23:20:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6580 invoked by uid 1020); 13 May 2003 23:20:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6576 invoked from network); 13 May 2003 23:20:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 May 2003 23:20:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 16A8F19B38; Tue, 13 May 2003 10:20:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr8.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 14CE419B24 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 May 2003 10:19:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr8.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id ALD36327; Tue, 13 May 2003 10:18:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AGA74444; Tue, 13 May 2003 10:18:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005601c3195a$821e9820$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3EBB29D8.7030200@null.net>, <00c601c3189e$5901dea0$e3944251@insultant.net> <3EBFE68A.18744A52@null.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 16:18:20 +0200 > Actually an integer value representable using CHAR_BIT bits. > Even as of K&R 1st Ed. it wasn't necessarily exactly 8 bits. 8 bits != -1 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 14 14:28:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 14 14:28:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28761 invoked by uid 1020); 14 May 2003 14:28:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28757 invoked from network); 14 May 2003 14:28:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 May 2003 14:28:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DB60119B4D; Wed, 14 May 2003 01:28:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sm181.163.com (unknown [202.108.44.181]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0297C19B4D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 01:27:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sm181.163.com (Postfix) with SMTP id B37E11DE6384C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 13:27:02 +0800 (CST) Received: from PBHYHECNSH (unknown [210.22.80.130]) by 192.168.1.181 (Coremail:www.163.com) with SMTP id rSMAAKbTwT7/A1CC.1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 13:27:02 +0800 (CST) Message-ID: <036301c319d9$7c87fb70$bb0ba8c0@PBHYHECNSH> From: "Water He" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4922.1500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4925.2800 Subject: [9fans] Some question about PowerPC? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 13:27:18 +0800 SSB3YW50IHRvIHBvcnQgcGxhbjkgdG8gTVBDODI2MC4gSG93IGNhbiBJIGRvPw0KMSkgV2hlcmUg dG8gZ2V0IGNvbXBpbGVyIGZvciBQb3dlclBDPw0KMikgTXkgaG9zdCBpcyBhIGkzODYgcGMsIGhv dyBkbyBJIG1ha2UgY3Jvc3MtY29tcGlsZXI/DQoNClRoYW5rIHlvdSENCg== From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 14 16:12:07 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 14 16:12:07 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 993 invoked by uid 1020); 14 May 2003 16:12:06 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 989 invoked from network); 14 May 2003 16:12:06 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 May 2003 16:12:06 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4697419B34; Wed, 14 May 2003 03:11:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 578E819B3E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 03:10:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <321b2996861406fd0e61d1ea3128cd7b@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Some question about PowerPC? From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <036301c319d9$7c87fb70$bb0ba8c0@PBHYHECNSH> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 07:54:59 +0100 >>1I want to port plan9 to MPC8260. How can I do? >>1) Where to get compiler for PowerPC? >>2) My host is a i386 pc, how do I make cross-compiler? 1. the compiler suite is qc/qa/ql, see manual page 2c(1), although you will not typically use it directly, since the system mkfiles (see mk(1)) already set up its use correctly when the target is power 1a. for some reason the executables aren't supplied ready-made for x86, but it's easy to build them (see part 2). 2. plan 9 compilers don't have a special `cross-compile' mode. just compile the powerpc compiler suite with the x86 compiler suite (8a/8c/8l), as follows. cd /sys/src/cmd for(a in cc qa qc ql)@{cd $a; mk install} 2a. you'll need the libraries as well, and if you've got the file system space, the easiest thing is to build everything for power (you'll need some of it sooner or later): cd /sys/src objtype=power mk install the above builds the libraries and commands for power (powerpc) architecture and leaves the binaries under /power/lib/... and /power/bin/... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 14 18:16:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 14 18:16:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6417 invoked by uid 1020); 14 May 2003 18:16:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6413 invoked from network); 14 May 2003 18:16:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 May 2003 18:16:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B10AA19B52; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:16:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C33A119B4A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:15:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19Fs6I-0001dN-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:59:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Anssi Porttikivi Message-ID: Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] Using 9P(2000) in Unix/Linux(/Windows) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 08:57:15 GMT Linux people and other Unix people don't seem have too good a choice for a networked file system available. NFS and Samba/SMB/CIFS are the regular alternatives in thousands of production networks. They are far from satisfactory. AFS and other alternatives are not very well known. What is the state of the art in trying to use 9P within various Unix variations and even with Microsoft OS's? There might be a window of opportunity here to make it a new World Wide Way to connect at file level. Maybe we need to promote 9P independent from Plan 9? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 14 18:16:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 14 18:16:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6428 invoked by uid 1020); 14 May 2003 18:16:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6424 invoked from network); 14 May 2003 18:16:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 May 2003 18:16:39 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5CF5719B5B; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:16:22 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0B8B919B4F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:15:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19Fs6H-0001dH-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:59:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Anssi Porttikivi Message-ID: Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <3EB1E0F1.6060908@null.net>, <2c48f76cc19c912eb71595a28defda34@mightycheese.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] exception handling caused the Ariane 5 rocket accident Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 08:57:04 GMT rob@mightycheese.com (rob pike, esq.) wrote in message news:<2c48f76cc19c912eb71595a28defda34@mightycheese.com>... [About "exceptions":] > > Basically, it's a way to impose order on chaos. > > and replace it with a mysterious, hard to understand > mechanism with a tendency to overlay a program's > structure with confusing, noisy error-handling > details. > > i'm not a fan of exceptions. good programming > can trump them every time; bad exception handling > can destroy a program. they're an interesting idea > but i judge them a failure. > > -rob Lack of understanding and too much reliance on the existence of upper level exception handling in the Ada language caused the blow up of the Ariane 5 rocket in 1996: "The internal SRI software exception was caused during execution of a data conversion from 64-bit floating point to 16-bit signed integer value. The floating point number which was converted had a value greater than what could be represented by a 16-bit signed integer. This resulted in an Operand Error. The data conversion instructions (in Ada code) were not protected from causing an Operand Error, although other conversions of comparable variables in the same place in the code were protected." (Google, "ariane 5 failure") C.A.R Hoare talked about this in his 1980 Turing award lecture: "...Gradually, these [Ada design] objectives have been been sacrificed in favor of power, supposedly achieved by a plethora of features and notational conventions, many of them unnecessary and some of them, like exception handling, even dangerous..." "...Do not allow this language (Ada) in its present state to be used in applications where reliability is critical, i.e., nuclear power stations, cruise missiles, early warning systems, anti-ballistic missile defense systems. The next rocket to go astray as a result of a programming language error may not be an exploratory space rocket on a harmless trip to Venus: It may be a nuclear warhead exploding over one of our cities..." (Google, "hoare turing") From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 14 18:26:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 14 18:26:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6672 invoked by uid 1020); 14 May 2003 18:26:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6668 invoked from network); 14 May 2003 18:26:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 May 2003 18:26:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C2BAC19B51; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:26:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr7.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C14B019B55 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:25:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr7.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id OVP83701; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:25:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AGC89313; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:25:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00c201c319fa$d325e3e0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] Using 9P(2000) in Unix/Linux(/Windows) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 11:25:56 +0200 http://research.compaq.com/PRL/publications/PRL-Proceedings.html Roberts Boyd. Ftpnfs : A File system Interface to Ftp, USENIX'93, Cincinnati, 1993. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 14 18:28:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 14 18:28:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6734 invoked by uid 1020); 14 May 2003 18:28:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6730 invoked from network); 14 May 2003 18:28:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 May 2003 18:28:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B520219B59; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:28:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr9.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A642819B57 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:27:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr9.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id PFD90036; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:27:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AGC89484; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:27:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00ce01c319fb$10908be0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 11:27:39 +0200 > cost <-> benefit gee, i learn something every day ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 14 18:59:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 14 18:59:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7741 invoked by uid 1020); 14 May 2003 18:59:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7736 invoked from network); 14 May 2003 18:59:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 May 2003 18:59:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1249319B5F; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:59:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mx01.netapp.com (mx01.netapp.com [198.95.226.53]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0282C199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:58:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frejya.corp.netapp.com (frejya [10.10.20.91]) by mx01.netapp.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/NTAP-1.4) with ESMTP id h4E9w2FB014536 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 02:58:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from place.org ([192.168.76.230]) by frejya.corp.netapp.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/NTAP-1.4) with ESMTP id h4E9w1ln021326 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 02:58:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3EC21329.6060809@place.org> From: Stephen Wynne User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Using 9P(2000) in Unix/Linux(/Windows) References: <00c201c319fa$d325e3e0$e3944251@insultant.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 02:58:01 -0700 boyd, rounin wrote: > Roberts Boyd. Ftpnfs : A File system Interface to Ftp, USENIX'93, Cincinnati, > 1993. Any relation to AlexFS? http://www.anarres.org/projects/alex/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 14 19:13:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 14 19:13:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8198 invoked by uid 1020); 14 May 2003 19:13:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8194 invoked from network); 14 May 2003 19:13:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 May 2003 19:13:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 552C419B65; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:13:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr7.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 579BA19A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:12:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr7.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id OVP86780; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:12:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AGC93678; Wed, 14 May 2003 06:12:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <010801c31a01$50b478c0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <00c201c319fa$d325e3e0$e3944251@insultant.net> <3EC21329.6060809@place.org> Subject: Re: [9fans] Using 9P(2000) in Unix/Linux(/Windows) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 12:12:24 +0200 > Any relation to AlexFS? nah, rob showed me ftpfs and i was hooked. on ultrix you could write user mode NFS 'servers'. i knew how bad the protocol was, having done an NFS kernel port, so i wrote some code, which 'Digital' own ... it prooved how bad the protocol really was. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 14 21:11:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 14 21:11:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10736 invoked by uid 1020); 14 May 2003 21:11:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10732 invoked from network); 14 May 2003 21:11:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 May 2003 21:11:38 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 65BDE19B69; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:11:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 235DD19B63 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:10:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Using 9P(2000) in Unix/Linux(/Windows) From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 08:10:33 -0400 9P has no chance of taking off in the Unix/Linux world: * It's not complicated enough (symlinks, hard links, caching, exact Unix semantics) * The model doesn't match the internal kernel structure (it's a bad fit with the vnode layer) * It fixes things that Unix doesn't want to fix (numeric uids) It might be possible to make a 9P-like protocol for Unix, but a lot of the nice things about 9P would have to go away. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 14 21:30:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 14 21:30:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11315 invoked by uid 1020); 14 May 2003 21:30:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11311 invoked from network); 14 May 2003 21:30:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 May 2003 21:30:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2918A19B6D; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:30:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mx01.netapp.com (mx01.netapp.com [198.95.226.53]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 21B7E19B45 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 08:29:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frejya.corp.netapp.com (frejya [10.10.20.91]) by mx01.netapp.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/NTAP-1.4) with ESMTP id h4ECTHFB021733 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:29:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from place.org ([192.168.76.230]) by frejya.corp.netapp.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/NTAP-1.4) with ESMTP id h4ECTGln014924 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 05:29:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3EC2369C.5020400@place.org> From: Stephen Wynne User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Using 9P(2000) in Unix/Linux(/Windows) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 05:29:16 -0700 Russ Cox wrote: > * The model doesn't match the internal kernel structure > (it's a bad fit with the vnode layer) ... > * It fixes things that Unix doesn't want to fix (numeric uids) The same thing could be said for NFSv4, but it's moving ahead on the server. The client vnode layer doesn't encourage taking advantage of the optimization opportunities provided by COMPOUND, from what I understand. But Kerberos (via GSSAPI) and UTF user/group identifiers are core features. Of course implementations can't be nearly as simple as 9P in plan9. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 14 22:10:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 14 22:10:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12089 invoked by uid 1020); 14 May 2003 22:10:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12085 invoked from network); 14 May 2003 22:10:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 May 2003 22:10:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6934C19B6B; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:10:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from pipeline.helics.net (66-108-164-142.nyc.rr.com [66.108.164.142]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6CE0219B61 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:08:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pipeline.helics.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pipeline.helics.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 184061B2C8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 May 2003 22:22:43 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Dan Cross Message-Id: <20030514022243.184061B2C8@pipeline.helics.net> Subject: [9fans] Fix for a timesync buglet.... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 22:22:42 -0400 I was wondering why ntpdate wouldn't sync from my Plan 9 server running ``timesync -s /net''. I figured out that the reference timestamp field wasn't being filled in the NTP packet that timesync was sending to ntpdate. Here's a patch that will fill in the last UTC sample (if you're sampling a UTC source), which makes ntpdate and friends happy if you're using a UTC source, and doesn't change anything if you're not. It'd be nice to see this applied to the official timesync. Thanks! - Dan C. *** /n/dump/2003/0513/sys/src/cmd/aux/timesync.c Fri Apr 18 21:09:48 2003 --- /sys/src/cmd/aux/timesync.c Tue May 13 21:38:31 2003 *************** *** 37,42 **** --- 37,43 ---- vlong mydisp, rootdisp; vlong mydelay, rootdelay; vlong avgdelay; + vlong lastutc; uchar rootid[4]; char *sysid; *************** *** 1038,1044 **** gettime(&s, nil, nil); s -= atoll(v[1]); } ! return(atoll(v[0]) + s); } // --- 1039,1046 ---- gettime(&s, nil, nil); s -= atoll(v[1]); } ! lastutc = atoll(v[0]) + s; ! return(lastutc); } // *************** *** 1113,1118 **** --- 1115,1121 ---- ntp->stratum = stratum; hnputfp(ntp->rootdelay, rootdelay + mydelay); hnputfp(ntp->rootdisp, rootdisp + mydisp); + hnputts(ntp->refts, lastutc); memmove(ntp->origts, ntp->xmitts, sizeof(ntp->origts)); hnputts(ntp->recvts, recvts); memmove(ntp->rootid, rootid, sizeof(ntp->rootid)); From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 14 22:47:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 14 22:47:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12987 invoked by uid 1020); 14 May 2003 22:47:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12983 invoked from network); 14 May 2003 22:47:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 May 2003 22:47:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA4DD19B72; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:47:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F0BD519B6E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:46:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4EDkkqt014377 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:46:46 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4EDkkIG010896 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:46:46 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Using 9P(2000) in Unix/Linux(/Windows) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 07:44:54 -0600 (MDT) On Wed, 14 May 2003, Anssi Porttikivi wrote: > What is the state of the art in trying to use 9P within various Unix > variations and even with Microsoft OS's? There might be a window of > opportunity here to make it a new World Wide Way to connect at file > level. v9fs (v9fs.sourceforge.net) is a Linux VFS that supports 9p2000 and has been tested to 1024 client nodes here on the Pink cluster. Greg Watson has made extensions to Russ Cox's u9fs to make it able to serve that many machines, and the performance is reasonable (though the mount takes 20 seconds total for 1024 nodes -- although it sometimes takes only 9 seconds -- I love linux tcp). I've also used v9fs through ssh connections for secure remote mounts over various networks. > Maybe we need to promote 9P independent from Plan 9? Done, now we just need to get some things fixed (factotum on Linux would be nice) and convince people to try it. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 14 22:50:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 14 22:50:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13039 invoked by uid 1020); 14 May 2003 22:50:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13035 invoked from network); 14 May 2003 22:50:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 May 2003 22:50:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D092019B76; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:50:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9BEE019B45 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 09:49:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4EDn1qt015638 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:49:01 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4EDn0IG010994 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:49:00 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Using 9P(2000) in Unix/Linux(/Windows) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 07:47:09 -0600 (MDT) On Wed, 14 May 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > It might be possible to make a 9P-like protocol for Unix, > but a lot of the nice things about 9P would have to go away. that's true, many nice things go away. But it's still so much better than NFS than I like having it. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 00:06:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 00:06:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14259 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 00:06:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14255 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 00:06:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 00:06:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 04CC719B68; Wed, 14 May 2003 11:05:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from execs.com (unknown [62.110.125.219]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id CEBD719988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 11:04:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown (HELO m1.gns.snv.thisdomainl.com) (176.181.109.205) by mts.locks.grgtween.net with NNFMP; 15 May 2003 00:15:44 +0600 Received: from 198.54.114.217 ([198.54.114.217]) by relay.2yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 May 2003 06:08:15 -0900 Received: from unknown (HELO relay.2yahoo.com) (110.182.237.119) by mxs.perenter.com with smtp; 14 May 2003 21:00:46 -0600 Received: from rly04.hottestmile.com ([79.128.219.130]) by mts.locks.grgtween.net with QMQP; 14 May 2003 14:53:17 -0000 Message-ID: <869801c31a2b$a0cc5f10$c7c06f0f@ybmpktnsy> From: "Annabelle Bellew" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Subject: [9fans] ..c o m .n e t .o r g .b i z .i n f o .n a m e registrations Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: "Annabelle Bellew" List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 06:15:18 -0900 Register, renew or transfer your domain name - $14.95. Forwarding and DNS parking at no extra charge. http://www.reneworregister.com I don't want to receive this anymore: http://www.emailremovalregistry.com/cgi-bin/domain-remove.cgi Hkyxmvsi From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 01:00:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 01:00:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14954 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 01:00:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14950 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 01:00:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 01:00:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ECCA719B4F; Wed, 14 May 2003 12:00:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr9.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5C51519B3E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 11:59:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr9.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id PFE36066; Wed, 14 May 2003 11:57:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AGD56339; Wed, 14 May 2003 11:56:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <022c01c31a31$754e6ee0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] Using 9P(2000) in Unix/Linux(/Windows) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 17:57:01 +0200 > 9P has no chance of taking off in the Unix/Linux world: it's doable, but is it worth the pain? the lunix (sic) kernel is 2M SLOC. sysVr2 was bad enough, but 2M SLOC ... err no ... all you need to see the how ptrace(2) was implented and that prooved that linus had never seen the unix [say 7th Ed] kernel. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 01:26:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 01:26:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15284 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 01:26:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15280 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 01:26:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 01:26:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E055D19B6F; Wed, 14 May 2003 12:26:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr9.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E80A19B3E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 12:25:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr9.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id PFE39352; Wed, 14 May 2003 12:16:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AGD61472; Wed, 14 May 2003 12:16:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <024201c31a34$2aee7cc0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] Using 9P(2000) in Unix/Linux(/Windows) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 18:16:24 +0200 > that's true, many nice things go away. But it's still so much better than > NFS than I like having it. yup, two choices: buckley's and none. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 02:04:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 02:04:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15603 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 02:04:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15599 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 02:04:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 02:04:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A072319B60; Wed, 14 May 2003 13:04:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7D1BF19B4A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 13:03:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4EH3wqt008705 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 11:03:58 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4EH3wIG020303 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 11:03:58 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Using 9P(2000) in Unix/Linux(/Windows) In-Reply-To: <022c01c31a31$754e6ee0$e3944251@insultant.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 11:02:06 -0600 (MDT) On Wed, 14 May 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > > 9P has no chance of taking off in the Unix/Linux world: > > it's doable, but is it worth the pain? the lunix (sic) kernel is 2M SLOC. yes, I think it's worth the pain. If I can kill NFS dead, it's worth the pain. Besides, it works already :-) ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 02:10:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 02:10:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15671 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 02:10:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15667 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 02:10:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 02:10:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F119619B7B; Wed, 14 May 2003 13:10:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr8.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DBCCF19B4A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 13:09:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr8.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id ALF41127; Wed, 14 May 2003 13:05:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AGD74093; Wed, 14 May 2003 13:05:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <027601c31a3b$100288a0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] Using 9P(2000) in Unix/Linux(/Windows) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 19:05:46 +0200 > Besides, it works already :-) QED :-) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 02:25:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 02:25:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15886 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 02:25:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15882 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 02:25:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 02:25:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9F1CB19B7E; Wed, 14 May 2003 13:25:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 09D50199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 13:24:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h4EHRVwZ017597 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 11:27:31 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h4EHRVNj017593 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 11:27:31 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] pcc question -- main() in .a libs Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 11:27:31 -0600 (MDT) Hi, I'm having the following problem while porting ocaml using ape/psh: at one point of the build process (rather early, in fact) it builds a library called "libcamlrun.a" which contains, among other things, the definition of main(). this library is then compiled together with a list of primitives to create the first binary in the bootstrap process -- ocamlrun. the problem that I'm having is that main() appears to be stripped from the library (it's contained in main.o), resulting in unsuccessfull compilation: $ ar vu libcamlrun.a interp.o misc.o stacks.o fix_code.o startup.o main.o freelist.o major_gc.o minor_gc.o memory.o alloc.o roots.o globroots.o fail.o signals.o printexc.o backtrace.o compare.o ints.o floats.o str.o array.o io.o extern.o intern.o hash.o sys.o meta.o parsing.o gc_ctrl.o terminfo.o md5.o obj.o lexing.o callback.o debugger.o weak.o compact.o finalise.o custom.o dynlink.o unix.o $ make cc -o ocamlrun prims.o libcamlrun.a _main: undefined: main in _main cc: 8l: 8l 20157: error *** Error code 1 Stop. $ on the other hand including main.o works just fine: $ make cc -o ocamlrun prims.o libcamlrun.a main.o $ ar p libcamlrun.a main.o shows 'main' there, fyi.. andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 02:58:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 02:58:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16200 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 02:58:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16196 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 02:58:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 02:58:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 26A3C199B9; Wed, 14 May 2003 13:58:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr9.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D9119199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 13:57:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr9.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id PFE55950; Wed, 14 May 2003 13:57:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AGD86508; Wed, 14 May 2003 13:57:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <029a01c31a42$4fce7500$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] pcc question -- main() in .a libs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 19:57:39 +0200 library symbol reference loop. go native, it's worth the investment. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 03:00:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 03:00:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16235 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 03:00:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16231 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 03:00:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 03:00:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A332D19B81; Wed, 14 May 2003 14:00:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4C8E8199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 13:59:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4EHxNqt031993 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 11:59:23 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4EHxNIG022686 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 11:59:23 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] usenix Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 11:57:31 -0600 (MDT) I'm just wondering any of you going to usenix this june? It would be nice to get together and talk. It is possible I'm there the whole week 7-14, not sure yet. I'd like to show people and get some feedback on this little p9 cluster. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 03:10:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 03:10:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16300 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 03:10:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16296 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 03:10:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 03:10:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B570819B88; Wed, 14 May 2003 14:10:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.183]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2148B19B78 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 14:09:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-10-145.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.10.145 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 May 2003 18:09:18 -0000 Message-ID: <3EC2941B.2010401@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] usenix References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 14:08:11 -0500 > > >I'm just wondering any of you going to usenix this june? It would be nice >to get together and talk. > >It is possible I'm there the whole week 7-14, not sure yet. > >I'd like to show people and get some feedback on this little p9 cluster. > I wish. I don't have the money and I might be moving to South Africa because of that. Zewm. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 03:13:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 03:13:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16342 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 03:13:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16338 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 03:13:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 03:13:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2440919B82; Wed, 14 May 2003 14:13:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 40A0619B3E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 14:13:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <91662f3ec94cf02e577db97d91077be5@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] usenix In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-pstnirmsklpeavubznzgmcdawh" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 14:12:58 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-pstnirmsklpeavubznzgmcdawh Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'll be there from the 11th eve to the 14 afternoon --upas-pstnirmsklpeavubznzgmcdawh Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed May 14 14:00:18 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Wed May 14 14:00:16 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3D23C19B80; Wed, 14 May 2003 14:00:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4C8E8199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 13:59:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4EHxNqt031993 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 11:59:23 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4EHxNIG022686 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 11:59:23 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] usenix Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 11:57:31 -0600 (MDT) I'm just wondering any of you going to usenix this june? It would be nice to get together and talk. It is possible I'm there the whole week 7-14, not sure yet. I'd like to show people and get some feedback on this little p9 cluster. ron --upas-pstnirmsklpeavubznzgmcdawh-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 03:57:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 03:57:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16718 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 03:57:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16714 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 03:57:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 03:57:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E5129199ED; Wed, 14 May 2003 14:57:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr8.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F387E19B62 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 14:56:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr8.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id ALF58871; Wed, 14 May 2003 14:55:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AGE00899; Wed, 14 May 2003 14:55:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <006c01c31a4a$72ede040$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3EB9A8EB.3070100@ameritech.net> <20030509075527.GC957@localhost.localdomain> <3EBB7960.6030206@ameritech.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 20:55:54 +0200 From: "northern snowfall" > >speaking of SARS, i believe a linux beowulf cluster was used > >to help map the genomic sequence of the SARS coronavirus. > > > Nice hmm ... the 'vector': How is SARS spread? The primary way that SARS appears to spread is by close person-to-person contact. Potential ways in which SARS can be spread include touching the skin of other people or objects that are contaminated with infectious droplets and then touching your eye(s), nose, or mouth. This can happen when someone who is sick with SARS coughs or sneezes droplets onto themselves, other people, or nearby surfaces. It also is possible that SARS can be spread more broadly through the air or by other ways that are currently not known. http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/sars/qa/spread.htm#1 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 05:25:53 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 05:25:53 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17782 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 05:25:52 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17778 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 05:25:52 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 05:25:52 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3F15219B50; Wed, 14 May 2003 16:25:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D88E819A91 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 16:24:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h4EKS4wZ018019 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 14:28:04 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h4EKS49a018015 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 14:28:04 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] ocaml for plan9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 14:28:04 -0600 (MDT) Hi, I've completed an APE port of ocaml for Plan9. You can download the source here: http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~mirtchov/p9/ocaml/ What is this? This is a port of the Ocaml (Caml is the language, Ocaml is "Objective Caml") functional (and more) programming language to the Plan 9 from Bell Labs Operating System. To get more information about Ocaml go to: http://caml.inria.fr/ To get more information about Plan 9 go to: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9dist A good bunch of examples can be found at: http://caml.inria.fr/Examples/oc.tar.gz Warning -- not all examples would compile! Here is a taste of some of the examples and the ocaml interpreter: cpu% ape/psh $ make ocamlc -g -c hello.ml ocamlc hello.cmo -o hello ocamlc -g -c greeting.ml ocamlc greeting.cmo -o greeting ocamlc -g -c argcargv.ml ocamlc argcargv.cmo -o argcargv [snip] $ ./hello Hello world! $ cat wc_unix.ml | ./wc 2761 characters, 367 words, 86 lines $ queens Chess boards's size ? 5 The 5 queens problem has 10 solutions. Do you want to see the solutions ? y Solution number 1 - - - Q - - Q - - - - - - - Q - - Q - - Q - - - - Solution number 2 - - Q - - - - - - Q - Q - - - - - - Q - Q - - - - Solution number 3 - - - - Q - - Q - - Q - - - - - - - Q - - Q - - - Solution number 4 - - - Q - Q - - - - - - Q - - - - - - Q - Q - - - Solution number 5 - - - - Q - Q - - - - - - Q - Q - - - - - - Q - - Solution number 6 Q - - - - - - - Q - - Q - - - - - - - Q - - Q - - Solution number 7 - Q - - - - - - - Q - - Q - - Q - - - - - - - Q - Solution number 8 Q - - - - - - Q - - - - - - Q - Q - - - - - - Q - Solution number 9 - - Q - - Q - - - - - - - Q - - Q - - - - - - - Q Solution number 10 - Q - - - - - - Q - Q - - - - - - Q - - - - - - Q $ Examples of the ocaml interpreter: cpu% ocaml Objective Caml version 3.06 # let square (x) = x * x;; val square : int -> int = # let rec fact (x) = if x <= 1 then 1 else x * fact (x-1);; val fact : int -> int = # fact(5) ;; - : int = 120 # square(5);; - : int = 25 # square(fact(2));; - : int = 4 # What's there: This port uses the APE environment, i.e. it is not native. All of the unix functionality that ocaml needs and APE supports is there. The interpreter seems to run but is not thoroughly tested (I am not very fluent in Caml). What's missing: Graphics libraries aren't there (they need to be rewritten using draw(). I don't need ocaml-x11 that bad to do it myself) Thread libraries are not there -- both posix and non-posix threads are missing, same as with the above lib. Tk libraries are not compiled too, same reason. The code is there (config/Makefile turns on the compilation) so if you're willing... Gotchas: Probably many. You'll have to play with it to find out. I am barely an ocaml user myself, so you shouldn't expect to find them miraculously fixed in the next release (if there's any :) This port was hard. APE's make doesn't deal well with things like $(BLAH:.a=.b), which required an edit of almost every Makefile. Long filenames, messy compilations and even bugs in their #ifdef-sprinkled code took about three work days to catch. Not nice at all. Compile instructions: gunzip < ocaml-plan9-3.06.tgz | tar xv cd ocaml-3.06/ lnfs ocamldoc # if you don't use fossil lnfs /sys/man/man1 # if you don't use fossil ape/psh make world make install BUGS: The code is non-portable. the endianness is defined in config/m.h; unless the plan9 compilers can handle that fact you won't be able to run ocaml on a different architecture. (If I'm wrong please tell me!) Having to run "lnfs /sys/man/man1"!!! the installation process puts way too many binaries in /386/bin. There should be an easier way to switch between /$objtype/[bin|lib] and $home/[bin|lib] You will need to run: lnfs ocamldoc lnfs /sys/man/man1 due to the fact that three of the ocaml web pages have long filenames. The best way to deal with this is to have a Venti/Fossil system underneath. Most bugs would require that you go there and solve them yourselves. This port does not attempt to bring a full environment for ocaml lovers, rather it just solves a request somebody posted on the TODO page of the Plan 9 Wiki. TODO: plan9-native ui libs; Tk libs; threads assembly optimizations (well, maybe not) completely native port? wouldn't be easy. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 05:50:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 05:50:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18028 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 05:50:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18024 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 05:50:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 05:50:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2341D19B77; Wed, 14 May 2003 16:50:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 53CE019A93 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 16:49:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4EKnvfD004730 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 14:49:57 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4EKnvIG030184 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 14:49:57 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Question on #r/nvram Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 14:48:05 -0600 (MDT) Is there any reason to have #r/nvram readable and writeable only be eve? Is this historical? I have commented out the permission check for eve but I'm wondering if that is the wrong thing to do. You can't really do this with the eve permission check: bind '#r' rtc echo blah > rtc/nvram which makes it tough to reset nvram. thanks ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 05:53:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 05:53:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18064 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 05:53:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18060 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 05:53:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 05:53:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5C94F19B84; Wed, 14 May 2003 16:53:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 38FD119B61 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 16:52:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4EKqMc95066; Wed, 14 May 2003 16:52:22 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Question on #r/nvram From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 16:52:22 -0400 > which makes it tough to reset nvram. Only if you're not eve. If you're not eve, what right do you have to reset the nvram? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 06:07:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 06:07:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18247 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 06:07:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18243 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 06:07:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 06:07:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B191219B8C; Wed, 14 May 2003 17:07:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D0A0319B49 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 17:06:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4EL6Oqt013816 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 15:06:25 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4EL6OIG030990 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 15:06:24 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Question on #r/nvram In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 15:04:32 -0600 (MDT) On Wed, 14 May 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > Only if you're not eve. If you're not eve, > what right do you have to reset the nvram? Yes, that is true. It makes all kinds of sense until you have a bad key in CMOS. What's the approved way to nuke the bad key in CMOS besides yanking the battery? In other words, I can do this as bootes echo blah > /dev/sdC0/nvram but can not do this: echo blah > /dev/rtc/nvram and that would be useful. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 06:12:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 06:12:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18290 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 06:12:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18286 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 06:12:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 06:12:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3AEC119B49; Wed, 14 May 2003 17:12:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 441BE19A86 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 17:11:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4ELBmc96911; Wed, 14 May 2003 17:11:48 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: <4b4a8097c8ac7aeb9f46b060737376e0@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Question on #r/nvram From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 17:11:48 -0400 Eve is the host owner. If you are not the host owner, then you should not be able to write to nvram. If you are the host owner, then you can. I just tried on my terminal: g% echo hi >'#r/nvram' g% No problems. (Of course, I'll probably regret that when I reboot.) If the machine is running with bootes as the host owner, then bootes should be able to echo blah >'#r/nvram' or even echo blah >/dev/nvram assuming '#r' is bound onto /dev. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 06:28:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 06:28:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18598 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 06:28:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18594 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 06:28:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 06:28:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF96C19B4A; Wed, 14 May 2003 17:28:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4613B19A88 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 17:27:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24027 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 17:27:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h4ELRE502064 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 17:27:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305142127.h4ELRE502064@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ocaml for plan9 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 14 May 2003 14:28:04 MDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 17:27:14 -0400 Neat. Does this compile to a native object code, or some sort of P-code represtation? - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 07:05:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 07:05:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19237 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 07:05:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19233 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 07:05:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 07:05:41 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1727D19B8E; Wed, 14 May 2003 18:05:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7987419B61 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 18:04:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4EM4EfD005757 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 16:04:14 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4EM4EIG000762 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 16:04:14 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Question on #r/nvram In-Reply-To: <4b4a8097c8ac7aeb9f46b060737376e0@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 16:02:22 -0600 (MDT) On Wed, 14 May 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > Eve is the host owner. If you are not the host owner, > then you should not be able to write to nvram. > If you are the host owner, then you can. hokay, I'll try it again. thanks ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 11:00:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 11:00:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26260 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 11:00:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26255 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 11:00:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 11:00:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 91C4419A84; Wed, 14 May 2003 22:00:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail1.panix.com (mail1.panix.com [166.84.1.72]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4211219A84 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 21:59:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from panix1.panix.com (panix1.panix.com [166.84.1.1]) by mail1.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B4934876F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 21:59:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from markp@localhost) by panix1.panix.com (8.11.6p2/8.8.8/PanixN1.0) id h4F1x2L26743 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 14 May 2003 21:59:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Message-Id: <200305150159.h4F1x2L26743@panix1.panix.com> X-Mailer: mailx (AT&T/BSD) 9.8 2001-04-01 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] vmware confused about color depth Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 21:59:02 -0400 (EDT) so, looking for alternatives to drawterm, I got a demo copy of vmware 4 for linux. mostly all is well, but it seems vmware is confused about the depth of the plan9 screen, and that's preventing me from running it in fullscreen. when I try an error box tells me "unable to turn on direct graphics. your guest's depth (24) doesn't match your host's (16)". yet $vgasize on the guest plan9 is 1024x768x16 as it should be. is this a known issue? can anything be done? this is XFree86 4.3.0 on a ThinkPad 600e, if that helps. ---mp From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 11:10:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 11:10:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26712 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 11:10:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26708 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 11:10:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 11:10:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1B2E2199B3; Wed, 14 May 2003 22:10:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 52553199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 22:09:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h4F2DIwZ018397 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 20:13:18 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h4F2DIuw018393 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 20:13:18 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware confused about color depth In-Reply-To: <200305150159.h4F1x2L26743@panix1.panix.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 20:13:18 -0600 (MDT) not to help, but to add: I've had two people report problems with vmware 4 and plan9 under windows (plan9 not booting at all) which I'm waiting for my own vmware 4 version to confirm... It may not be a consolation, but you'll find that you're much better off using drawterm with vmware than the vmware window itself. the interaction between X and drawterm is much better (mouse/keyboard-wise) than between X and vmware (I personally hate "mouse grabbing"); besides, drawterm windows can be resized at will :) andrey On Wed, 14 May 2003 markp@panix.com wrote: > so, looking for alternatives to drawterm, I got a demo copy of vmware 4 > for linux. mostly all is well, but it seems vmware is confused about the > depth of the plan9 screen, and that's preventing me from running it in > fullscreen. when I try an error box tells me "unable to turn on direct > graphics. your guest's depth (24) doesn't match your host's (16)". yet > $vgasize on the guest plan9 is 1024x768x16 as it should be. is this a > known issue? can anything be done? > > this is XFree86 4.3.0 on a ThinkPad 600e, if that helps. > > ---mp > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 12:47:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 12:47:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31612 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 12:47:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31608 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 12:47:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 12:47:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B16E019B9B; Wed, 14 May 2003 23:47:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0EF2D19B79 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 23:46:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware confused about color depth From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <200305150159.h4F1x2L26743@panix1.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 23:45:58 -0400 send the vgainfo.txt or the output of aux/vga -p. the driver is supposed to ignore the depth you tell it and use the depth from the host. it works fine for me. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 12:49:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 12:49:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31743 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 12:49:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31739 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 12:49:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 12:49:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6CCFE19B9D; Wed, 14 May 2003 23:49:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 05DAD19B96 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 23:48:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware confused about color depth From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 23:48:23 -0400 > I've had two people report problems with vmware 4 and plan9 under windows > (plan9 not booting at all) which I'm waiting for my own vmware 4 version to > confirm... i'm running it on two machines. one works great. the other seems to have decided to send clock interrupts arbitrarily fast. also the nat's dns stopped working a week or two ago (vmware 3.2) so i upgraded to 4 and it still didn't work. not sure how i managed that. > It may not be a consolation, but you'll find that you're much better off > using drawterm with vmware than the vmware window itself. the interaction > between X and drawterm is much better (mouse/keyboard-wise) than between X > and vmware (I personally hate "mouse grabbing"); besides, drawterm windows > can be resized at will :) i disagree with this. in windows at least, full screen mode lets you forget you've even got another operating system. (in linux, full screen mode doesn't give a hardware mouse, so it doesn't work so well.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 13:02:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 13:02:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32379 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 13:02:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32375 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 13:02:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 13:02:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 273A319A9A; Thu, 15 May 2003 00:02:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.fywss.com (unknown [207.245.2.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ECE1719B9E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 00:01:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from steve@localhost) by smtp.fywss.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4F413i11448 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 15 May 2003 00:01:03 -0400 From: Steve Kotsopoulos Message-Id: <200305150401.h4F413i11448@smtp.fywss.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] [reminder] pointer to Plan 9 FAQ Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 00:01:03 -0400 The Plan 9 faq is posted to comp.os.plan9 at the beginning of each month. It is also at news.answers archive sites, look for comp-os/plan9-faq The latest hypertext version of the faq is available at url http://www.fywss.com/plan9/plan9faq.html From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 13:07:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 13:07:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32635 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 13:07:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32631 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 13:07:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 13:07:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D5F4F19BA1; Thu, 15 May 2003 00:07:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EDAED19B45 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 00:06:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h4F4AAwZ018463 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 22:10:10 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h4F4AAqb018459 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 22:10:10 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware confused about color depth In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 22:10:10 -0600 (MDT) On Wed, 14 May 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > i disagree with this. in windows at least, full screen mode lets > you forget you've even got another operating system. > (in linux, full screen mode doesn't give a hardware mouse, so it > doesn't work so well.) > yes, I was talking about linux. in windows I would assume one wants to stay away from the host OS as much as possible ;) andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 13:15:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 13:15:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 645 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 13:15:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 639 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 13:15:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 13:15:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 12ED519B9F; Thu, 15 May 2003 00:15:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 09EDE19A77 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 00:14:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4F4EBEa025083 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 21:14:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <344173b43169cedcd266fa4166030c0e@centurytel.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] usenix From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 21:19:26 -0700 > I'm just wondering any of you going to usenix this june? It would be nice > to get together and talk. As nice as that would be, it is held in Texas. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 14:11:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 14:11:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3010 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 14:11:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3006 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 14:11:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 14:11:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 68A1E19BA2; Thu, 15 May 2003 01:11:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail3.panix.com (mail3.panix.com [166.84.1.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C6CE719A86 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 01:10:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from panix1.panix.com (panix1.panix.com [166.84.1.1]) by mail3.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6230098376 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 01:10:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from markp@localhost) by panix1.panix.com (8.11.6p2/8.8.8/PanixN1.0) id h4F59iX29827 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 15 May 2003 01:09:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Message-Id: <200305150509.h4F59iX29827@panix1.panix.com> X-Mailer: mailx (AT&T/BSD) 9.8 2001-04-01 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware confused about color depth Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 01:09:44 -0400 (EDT) | yes, I was talking about linux. in windows I would assume one wants to | stay away from the host OS as much as possible ;) there are many aspects of linux one might want to stay away from as much as possible, too. :) I will fiddle with drawterm + vmware cpu server out of curiosity, though. ---mp From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 14:22:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 14:22:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3528 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 14:22:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3524 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 14:22:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 14:22:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 02E4819BA9; Thu, 15 May 2003 01:22:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2748C19BA5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 01:21:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h4F5OOwZ018507 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 23:24:24 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h4F5OOdU018503 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 May 2003 23:24:24 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware confused about color depth In-Reply-To: <200305150509.h4F59iX29827@panix1.panix.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 23:24:24 -0600 (MDT) On Thu, 15 May 2003 markp@panix.com wrote: > there are many aspects of linux one might want to stay away from as much > as possible, too. :) as I've stated many times if I had to choose between different unices I'd go with freebsd (*bsd, really). am a BSD person. in fact I try to avoid using the mess that is linux every chance I get. unfortunately I'm forced to use it at UofC as much as I'm not allowed to use Plan9 there... I was trying to make a joke, but it's actually quite a sad state of affairs.. (freebsd has no vmware, basically that's the reason...) andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 14:33:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 14:33:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4058 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 14:33:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4054 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 14:33:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 14:33:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 01C8219BAA; Thu, 15 May 2003 01:33:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail1.panix.com (mail1.panix.com [166.84.1.72]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E9D6D19A88 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 01:32:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from panix1.panix.com (panix1.panix.com [166.84.1.1]) by mail1.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD96C488C2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 01:32:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from markp@localhost) by panix1.panix.com (8.11.6p2/8.8.8/PanixN1.0) id h4F5WXv08098 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 15 May 2003 01:32:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Message-Id: <200305150532.h4F5WXv08098@panix1.panix.com> X-Mailer: mailx (AT&T/BSD) 9.8 2001-04-01 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware confused about color depth Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 01:32:33 -0400 (EDT) | On Thu, 15 May 2003 markp@panix.com wrote: | | > there are many aspects of linux one might want to stay away from as much | > as possible, too. :) | | as I've stated many times if I had to choose between different unices I'd go | with freebsd (*bsd, really). am a BSD person. in fact I try to avoid using | the mess that is linux every chance I get. unfortunately I'm forced to use | it at UofC as much as I'm not allowed to use Plan9 there... | | I was trying to make a joke, but it's actually quite a sad state of | affairs.. (freebsd has no vmware, basically that's the reason...) yeah, same here only x/free/c/net/ (really only because that's the one I happen to be familiar with). there's a support package that'll supposedly make vmware work under netbsd's linux emulation, but I couldn't get it going. ---mp From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 14:51:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 14:51:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4722 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 14:51:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4718 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 14:51:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 14:51:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 225D119BAB; Thu, 15 May 2003 01:51:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr9.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 145EE19B92 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 01:50:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr9.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id PFF35154; Thu, 15 May 2003 01:50:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AGF07693; Thu, 15 May 2003 01:50:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <004401c31aa5$df9955c0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <344173b43169cedcd266fa4166030c0e@centurytel.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] usenix MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 07:50:18 +0200 > As nice as that would be, it is held in Texas. hmm ... Gunnery Sergeant Hartman, Drill Instructor: Holy dog shit! Texas? ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 15:50:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 15:50:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7047 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 15:50:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7043 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 15:50:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 15:50:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C6D2E19BA7; Thu, 15 May 2003 02:50:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.179]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E012E19BA7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 02:49:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-10-145.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.10.145 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 May 2003 06:49:33 -0000 Message-ID: <3EC34649.6020900@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware confused about color depth References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 02:48:25 -0500 > > >yes, I was talking about linux. in windows I would assume one wants to stay >away from the host OS as much as possible ;) > I kinda like windows. :/ > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 15:59:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 15:59:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7412 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 15:59:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7408 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 15:59:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 15:59:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3D17419BAF; Thu, 15 May 2003 02:59:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr7.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE9EE19BA0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 02:58:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr7.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id OVR33379; Thu, 15 May 2003 02:58:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AGF14167; Thu, 15 May 2003 02:58:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00ed01c31aaf$6cf99200$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3EC34649.6020900@ameritech.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware confused about color depth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 08:58:43 +0200 > I kinda like windows. :/ strangely enough i kinda like it too, given i've been thrashing it to death, until i get enough synapses to build my 9/inferno network. i have an active anti-spam project that i want to write in limbo. i've just not had the time over the past ~7 years to implement it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 16:22:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 16:22:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8285 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 16:22:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8281 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 16:22:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 16:22:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C6E5419BB4; Thu, 15 May 2003 03:22:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B42EA19A7A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 03:21:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 76718 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 07:21:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO proweb.co.uk) (192.168.1.100) by juice.thebigchoice.com with SMTP; 15 May 2003 07:21:28 -0000 Message-ID: <3EC33FF8.8090001@proweb.co.uk> From: matt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware confused about color depth References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 08:21:28 +0100 > > >(freebsd has no vmware, basically that's the reason...) > /usr/ports/emulators/vmware2/ /usr/ports/emulators/vmware3/ %cat /usr/ports/emulators/vmware3/pkg-descr This is the Linux version of the VMware virtual machine emulator made to run on FreeBSD using the Linux compatibility mode. VMware can be used to run Microsoft MS-DOS, Windows 95/98/NT/2000, Linux, FreeBSD, or any other operating system that runs on the i486. Official VMware, Inc. web site: WWW: http://www.vmware.com/ We all are thankful to Vladimir N. Silyaev for porting vmmon/vmnet modules to FreeBSD. Have a look at his page for the latest information: http://www.mindspring.com/~vsilyaev/vmware/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 16:28:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 16:28:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8542 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 16:28:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8538 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 16:28:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 16:28:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2407119BB3; Thu, 15 May 2003 03:28:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.179]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C641719BB3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 03:27:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-10-145.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.10.145 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 May 2003 07:27:45 -0000 Message-ID: <3EC34F3D.6030608@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware confused about color depth References: <3EC34649.6020900@ameritech.net> <00ed01c31aaf$6cf99200$e3944251@insultant.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 03:26:37 -0500 > > >strangely enough i kinda like it too, given i've been thrashing it to >death, until i get enough synapses to build my 9/inferno network. > Right on :) Though... I've got a full 9 network, Sun and some BSD.. I used to run Linux, etc, too. Though, in the end, you just can't beat Windows for a nice kick around all-purpose bullshit interface. It may not be designed the best in the undercarriage, but, let's face facts: if it wasn't for the beauty of the Microsoft Windowing interface, I probably would never have been introduced to computers. I would never have been introduced to a world of networking it its current state: despite all the wish-there-weres and wish-there- weren'ts. I never would have gotten here, to plan9. I never would have found the courage to take myself further to Autumn. I don't care what anyone says; Thanks, Bill. Don > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 16:39:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 16:39:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8972 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 16:39:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8968 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 16:39:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 16:39:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 93A8419BB7; Thu, 15 May 2003 03:39:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr8.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 15AED19BAD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 03:38:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr8.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id ALG36839; Thu, 15 May 2003 03:38:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AGF32917; Thu, 15 May 2003 03:38:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <010301c31ab4$f1ca2c60$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3EC34649.6020900@ameritech.net> <00ed01c31aaf$6cf99200$e3944251@insultant.net> <3EC34F3D.6030608@ameritech.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware confused about color depth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 09:38:14 +0200 > Right on :) Though... it's like blendmail (sic) -- 10 years to get it right, a virtual 'army of programmers', but in the case of µSloth it's a literal 'army of programmers' From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 18:32:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 18:32:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13264 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 18:32:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13260 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 18:32:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 18:32:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5513619A7A; Thu, 15 May 2003 05:32:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 05EF419AAA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 05:31:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19GEy1-0005jS-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 15 May 2003 10:24:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EC2D3A2.5020306@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Subject: Re: [9fans] pcc question -- main() in .a libs Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 09:21:33 GMT andrey mirtchovski wrote: > cc -o ocamlrun prims.o libcamlrun.a > _main: undefined: main in _main I think the problem is that there is no reference to main to pull the module from the library; probably the APE C library (searched *after* libcamrun.a) contains the piece of run-time startup code (_main) that calls main. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 18:32:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 18:32:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13277 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 18:32:52 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13273 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 18:32:51 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 18:32:51 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8E45B19BBF; Thu, 15 May 2003 05:32:23 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF80A19A7A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 05:31:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19GEy2-0005jZ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 15 May 2003 10:24:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EC2D828.7000204@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <3EB1E0F1.6060908@null.net>, <2c48f76cc19c912eb71595a28defda34@mightycheese.com>, Subject: Re: [9fans] exception handling caused the Ariane 5 rocket accident Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 09:21:55 GMT Anssi Porttikivi wrote: > "The internal SRI software exception was caused during execution of a > data conversion from 64-bit floating point to 16-bit signed integer > value. The floating point number which was converted had a value > greater than what could be represented by a 16-bit signed integer. > This resulted in an Operand Error. The data conversion instructions > (in Ada code) were not protected from causing an Operand Error, > although other conversions of comparable variables in the same place > in the code were protected." (Google, "ariane 5 failure") It doesn't sound like a problem with exception handling as such; if appropriate layered error recovery strategies were in place at all, such a low-level error should have been recovered from. The real problem sounds like a mismatch between an Ada run-time system and a programmer's assumptions. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 18:33:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 18:33:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13310 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 18:33:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13306 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 18:33:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 18:33:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 75C8C19BC7; Thu, 15 May 2003 05:32:33 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AA20019A7A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 05:31:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19GEy2-0005jf-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 15 May 2003 10:24:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Anssi Porttikivi Message-ID: Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: , Subject: Re: [9fans] Using 9P(2000) in Unix/Linux(/Windows) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 09:22:06 GMT A practical need I have in mind and which prompted me to ask: when booting a CD based 'live' Linux (like Knoppix) on an arbitrary PC machine I'd like to mount my home directory (with all dot filed settings) securely over the Internet. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 19:43:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 19:43:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15169 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 19:43:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15165 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 19:43:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 19:43:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0099619BCE; Thu, 15 May 2003 06:43:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EC84319B91 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 06:42:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19GG8b-0007bB-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 15 May 2003 11:39:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1rio_Amado_Alves?= Message-ID: <4a4de33a.0305150222.7f2d2222@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <3EB1E0F1.6060908@null.net>, <2c48f76cc19c912eb71595a28defda34@mightycheese.com>, Subject: Re: [9fans] exception handling caused the Ariane 5 rocket accident Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 10:35:24 GMT > Lack of understanding and too much reliance on the existence of upper > level exception handling in the Ada language caused the blow up of the > Ariane 5 rocket in 1996: ... Not quite. Exception handling is just a tool, and it is not the tool's fault that it was misused. The Ariane-5 error was more on the requirements specification side. Namely code from Ariane-4 was reused on the (wrong) assumption that is was 'compatible' with the Ariane-5 environment. "Lack of understanding" yes. "Too much reliance on the existence of upper level exception handling" I doubt. --Marius From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 19:48:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 19:48:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15258 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 19:48:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15254 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 19:48:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 19:48:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 35A1D19B91; Thu, 15 May 2003 06:48:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr8.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 400CF19BC9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 06:47:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr8.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id ALG47954; Thu, 15 May 2003 06:47:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AGF49066; Thu, 15 May 2003 06:47:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003501c31acf$6dcb5360$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3EB1E0F1.6060908@null.net>, <2c48f76cc19c912eb71595a28defda34@mightycheese.com>, <4a4de33a.0305150222.7f2d2222@posting.google.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] exception handling caused the Ariane 5 rocket accident MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 12:47:49 +0200 would somebody please read feynman's shuttle investigation? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 20:35:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 20:35:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16207 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 20:35:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16203 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 20:35:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 20:35:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A13A719BD2; Thu, 15 May 2003 07:35:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 947A819BC3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 07:34:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h4FBTue10995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 06:29:56 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] exception handling caused the Ariane 5 rocket accident In-Reply-To: <003501c31acf$6dcb5360$e3944251@insultant.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 06:29:56 -0500 (CDT) On Thu, 15 May 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > would somebody please read feynman's shuttle investigation? It wasn't Feynman's investigation, he was on the review board. I assume you're talking about his great(!) quote about technology and fooling Nature, that was not a popular sentiment of the board. The only reason it was included was his fame. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 20:43:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 20:43:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16374 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 20:43:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16370 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 20:43:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 20:43:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CCD2D19BD5; Thu, 15 May 2003 07:43:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr8.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6EDED19BC2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 07:42:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr8.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id ALG51682; Thu, 15 May 2003 07:42:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AGF54355; Thu, 15 May 2003 07:42:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002901c31ad7$02501780$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] exception handling caused the Ariane 5 rocket accident MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 13:42:04 +0200 From: "Jim Choate" > It wasn't Feynman's investigation, he was on the review board. I assume > you're talking about his great(!) quote about technology and fooling > Nature, that was not a popular sentiment of the board. The only reason it was > included was his fame. i know i shouldn't even attempt to enter into this, but ... he talked to the engineers. they said the probability of a loss of vehicle was between 1 in 100-300 flights. upper level management had been quoting 1 in a million [maybe they were guns 'n roses fans?]. there have been, say, 150 flights and 2 'loss of vehicle' incidents. have i been too cryptic? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 20:55:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 20:55:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16628 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 20:55:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16624 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 20:55:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 20:55:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC85819BD8; Thu, 15 May 2003 07:55:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4C93419BD4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 07:54:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h4FBo2R11257 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 06:50:02 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <002901c31ad7$02501780$e3944251@insultant.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Re: exception handling caused the Ariane 5 rocket accident Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 06:50:02 -0500 (CDT) On Thu, 15 May 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > From: "Jim Choate" > > It wasn't Feynman's investigation, he was on the review board. I assume > > you're talking about his great(!) quote about technology and fooling > > Nature, that was not a popular sentiment of the board. The only reason it was > > included was his fame. > > i know i shouldn't even attempt to enter into this, but ... > > he talked to the engineers. they said the probability of a loss of > vehicle was between 1 in 100-300 flights. upper level management > had been quoting 1 in a million [maybe they were guns 'n roses fans?]. > > there have been, say, 150 flights and 2 'loss of vehicle' incidents. > > have i been too cryptic? Irrelevant strawman. It wasn't 'Feynman's' investigation; that assertion is a misrepresentation in the spirit of Feynmans quote in fact. He was a member of a board. The investigation was run by NASA. As to the odds of failure, there was much more involved in the investigation than this simple spindocotorism. There was a travesty of errors commited because underlings wanted to tell their bosses what they wanted to hear. You might try reading the report, I can loan you my copy. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 20:59:05 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 20:59:05 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16703 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 20:59:05 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16699 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 20:59:05 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 20:59:05 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E719219BDF; Thu, 15 May 2003 07:58:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr9.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2A0DF19BD9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 07:57:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr9.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id PFF59882; Thu, 15 May 2003 07:57:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AGF55970; Thu, 15 May 2003 07:57:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003701c31ad9$24fa1360$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: exception handling caused the Ariane 5 rocket accident MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 13:57:21 +0200 > You might try reading the report, I can loan you my copy. been there, done that, got the book[s] ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 21:09:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 21:09:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16919 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 21:09:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16915 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 21:09:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 21:09:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CB5E419BDE; Thu, 15 May 2003 08:09:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA23819BDB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 08:08:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h4FC40Q11310; Thu, 15 May 2003 07:04:01 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Re: Using 9P(2000) in Unix/Linux(/Windows) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 07:04:00 -0500 (CDT) On Thu, 15 May 2003, Anssi Porttikivi wrote: > A practical need I have in mind and which prompted me to ask: when > booting a CD based 'live' Linux (like Knoppix) on an arbitrary PC > machine I'd like to mount my home directory (with all dot filed > settings) securely over the Internet. You'll need to create an encrypted tunnel first. Then the mount should behave normally, except it will be even slower ;) Since you want to use a CD you'll of course have the problem of making sure that the keys burned on the CD are well kept. This means no loaning of the CD to 3rd parties, and burning a seperate CD for each node you want to boot remotely, otherwise you increase the chances of a 'known plaintext' or 'reply' attack. You could use something similar to kerb to pass tickets/cert's over the net instead of actual keys. This will help against replay attacks. These sorts of things usually require sync'ed clocks or something similar, a secure reliable shared resource (ala clock skew). Anther approach is to use some sort of mod'ed distro (I use Trinux) and a net-boot (eg bootp or tftp) distro. Then of course you have the 'trusted computing' problem. If you keep up with the Cypherpunks at all, I believe Ross Anderson has written a paper on related issues and there is a conference of some sort coming soon on that sort of topic. Check the archives, Ross might not be the author. The issue came up within the last couple of weeks. These assume that you are booting the machine from the CD. If instead you simply want to take an existing Linux machine, slap a CD into a drive, and then open a tunnel and mount the drive; calling that secure at any point is hopeless with todays technology. The system is not secrurable (ie TEMPEST/Van Eck, bus snooping, left behind swap and malloc fragments with code/data sitting around, regular archival runs, etc.). You've got yourself a very! hard problem in the second case. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 21:28:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 21:28:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17186 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 21:28:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17182 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 21:28:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 21:28:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D35B419BE8; Thu, 15 May 2003 08:28:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0DC2719BC8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 08:27:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19385 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 08:27:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h4FCRL505916 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 08:27:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305151227.h4FCRL505916@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware confused about color depth In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 15 May 2003 03:26:37 CDT." <3EC34F3D.6030608@ameritech.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 08:27:21 -0400 Shucks, if it weren't for the beauty of Pacman under VMS on a vt320, I would never have gotten into computers. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 21:32:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 21:32:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17253 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 21:32:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17249 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 21:32:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 21:32:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E630C19BEF; Thu, 15 May 2003 08:32:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr8.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 38A7319BEA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 08:31:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr8.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id ALG56456; Thu, 15 May 2003 08:31:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AGF60821; Thu, 15 May 2003 08:31:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <008501c31add$f3b31400$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200305151227.h4FCRL505916@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware confused about color depth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 14:31:46 +0200 now if it wasn't for the beauty of the serif font on the viewpoint vp90sx terminal at 9600 baud, with dz-kmc's on a 11/780 running TS1.2, well i just don't know where i'd be ... when i were a lad ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 21:35:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 21:35:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17327 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 21:35:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17323 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 21:35:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 21:35:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C71919BF0; Thu, 15 May 2003 08:35:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3798F19BE3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 08:34:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20332 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 08:34:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h4FCYA505978 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 08:34:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305151234.h4FCYA505978@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] exception handling caused the Ariane 5 rocket accident In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 15 May 2003 09:21:55 GMT." <3EC2D828.7000204@null.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 08:34:10 -0400 Actually, the problem was that they assumed they could use a piece of software from Ariane-4 on Ariane-5 without modification. Bad assumption. Exception handling is interesting, and potentially useful, because it allows one to scope error recovery in an essentially dynamic way. But the ugly fact is that it's often abused and made to look like a glorified goto with a side effect. When used by a competent programmer, it's fine; when used by the average programmer, it's a disaster waiting to happen because, frankly, the average programmer isn't disciplined enough to use the mechanism appropriately. I guess that, as other's have said, it boils down to the programmer. Rob Pike or Russ Cox can get away with building clean code that doesn't use exceptions because they're virtuosos. Doug Gwyn can get away with using exceptions because he's a virtuoso. The average programmer is not a virtuoso, and more often than not messes up either way. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 21:37:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 21:37:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17360 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 21:37:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17356 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 21:37:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 21:37:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9EA1619BEA; Thu, 15 May 2003 08:37:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3731B19BF2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 08:36:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20595 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 08:36:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h4FCa2505997 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 08:36:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305151236.h4FCa2505997@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] usenix In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 15 May 2003 07:50:18 +0200." <004401c31aa5$df9955c0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 08:36:02 -0400 > > As nice as that would be, it is held in Texas. Really? Where in Texas. Maybe I can drop by and say hello if it's not too far away; I'll be in San Antonio during that time. > hmm ... > > Gunnery Sergeant Hartman, Drill Instructor: Holy dog shit! Texas? ... Semper Fi. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 21:38:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 21:38:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17424 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 21:38:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17420 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 21:38:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 21:38:43 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AA70319BFB; Thu, 15 May 2003 08:38:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from larch (unknown [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2F43C19BF1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 08:37:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] keyboard repeat speed Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 13:37:53 +0100 Hi, For the archives, and anyone interested: The keyboard repeat speed always seemed very slow on Plan9 compared to Win/Lunix on the same hardware. I discovered plan9 doesn't touch the keyboard repeat speed on PCs (which people correctly pointed out is implemented in the 8042 microcontroller). Adding code to force the repeat speed in the kernel did nothing and left me more confused. Eventually I happened accross a BIOS option for "Keyboard clock frequency" - set at 8Mhz, I increased this to 16Mhz and my repeat speed is now what I expect. Oh well. -Steve From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 21:58:58 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 21:58:58 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17727 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 21:58:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17723 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 21:58:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 21:58:42 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC58819BBA; Thu, 15 May 2003 08:57:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C58F19BF1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 08:56:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1e6c6ca2e37268a4fc72169131ab541d@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] usenix In-Reply-To: <200305151236.h4FCa2505997@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-kycrsixpbeqrzhlcbjgiiwkvud" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 08:56:23 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-kycrsixpbeqrzhlcbjgiiwkvud Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It'll be in San Antonio. --upas-kycrsixpbeqrzhlcbjgiiwkvud Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu May 15 08:37:19 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu May 15 08:37:17 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D877019BF4; Thu, 15 May 2003 08:37:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3731B19BF2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 08:36:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20595 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 08:36:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h4FCa2505997 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 08:36:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305151236.h4FCa2505997@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] usenix In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 15 May 2003 07:50:18 +0200." <004401c31aa5$df9955c0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 08:36:02 -0400 > > As nice as that would be, it is held in Texas. Really? Where in Texas. Maybe I can drop by and say hello if it's not too far away; I'll be in San Antonio during that time. > hmm ... > > Gunnery Sergeant Hartman, Drill Instructor: Holy dog shit! Texas? ... Semper Fi. - Dan C. --upas-kycrsixpbeqrzhlcbjgiiwkvud-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 21:59:56 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 21:59:56 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17746 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 21:59:56 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17742 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 21:59:56 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 21:59:56 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B65E519BFF; Thu, 15 May 2003 08:59:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5A10219C04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 08:58:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <523594035c139511e92e7ab1a832ff52@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] usenix In-Reply-To: <200305151236.h4FCa2505997@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 08:58:40 -0400 http://www.usenix.org/events/usenix03/ataglance.html From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 22:03:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 22:03:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17830 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 22:03:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17826 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 22:03:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 22:03:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E7AC819C04; Thu, 15 May 2003 09:03:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 48C0E19BFD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 09:02:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24333 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 09:02:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h4FD2m506279 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 09:02:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305151302.h4FD2m506279@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Using 9P(2000) in Unix/Linux(/Windows) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 15 May 2003 07:04:00 CDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 09:02:48 -0400 > > A practical need I have in mind and which prompted me to ask: when > > booting a CD based 'live' Linux (like Knoppix) on an arbitrary PC > > machine I'd like to mount my home directory (with all dot filed > > settings) securely over the Internet. > > You'll need to create an encrypted tunnel first. Then the mount should > behave normally, except it will be even slower ;) Which is why he's interested in the Plan 9 way of doing things; you kind of get that for free. Ron's done 9p; the challenge is porting the Plan 9 authentication module to Linux; otherwise, it does the things you describe as being necessary for security, without storing anything locally on the CD (so you can lend it out to your hearts content). > These assume that you are booting the machine from the CD. > > If instead you simply want to take an existing Linux machine, slap a CD > into a drive, and then open a tunnel and mount the drive; calling that > secure at any point is hopeless with todays technology. The system is > not secrurable (ie TEMPEST/Van Eck, bus snooping, left behind swap and > malloc fragments with code/data sitting around, regular archival runs, > etc.). Eh? How does booting your own distribution of Linux protect you from someone using a van Eck device? > You've got yourself a very! hard problem in the second case. The hardware based attacks, yes. Someone can always hook a logic probe up to some random computer and look at stuff going into the memory banks (potentially they can do that after you're done using the computer and it's been turned off, too). But, the crypto/authentication part is a solved problem, just not on the target platform. At least the filesystem is there. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 22:09:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 22:09:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17939 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 22:09:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17935 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 22:09:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 22:09:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 605BE19C06; Thu, 15 May 2003 09:09:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr8.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C291519C05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 09:08:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr8.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id ALG60435; Thu, 15 May 2003 09:08:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AGF66774; Thu, 15 May 2003 09:08:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00cf01c31ae3$0b3c37a0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200305151302.h4FD2m506279@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Using 9P(2000) in Unix/Linux(/Windows) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 15:08:13 +0200 gee, better make sure the window vibrators are on and you're inside the faraday cage .... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 22:53:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 22:53:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18657 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 22:53:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18653 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 22:53:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 22:53:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B893719BB0; Thu, 15 May 2003 09:53:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 069A819AAF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 09:52:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4FDqefD023855 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 07:52:40 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4FDqeIG023428 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 07:52:40 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware confused about color depth In-Reply-To: <200305150509.h4F59iX29827@panix1.panix.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 07:50:46 -0600 (MDT) On Thu, 15 May 2003 markp@panix.com wrote: > I will fiddle with drawterm + vmware cpu server out of curiosity, > though. I've tried both ways on Linux and agree with Andrey, drawterm is better for me anyway. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 22:57:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 22:57:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18722 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 22:57:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18718 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 22:57:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 22:57:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B5B3219AAF; Thu, 15 May 2003 09:57:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 76CDF19ABE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 09:56:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4FDudfD025447 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 07:56:39 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4FDudIG023585 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 07:56:39 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware confused about color depth In-Reply-To: <00ed01c31aaf$6cf99200$e3944251@insultant.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 07:54:46 -0600 (MDT) On Thu, 15 May 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > > I kinda like windows. :/ > > strangely enough i kinda like it too, given i've been thrashing it to > death, until i get enough synapses to build my 9/inferno network. XP? Is it just me, or do the colors and "green field background" and buttons and such on XP make you think the Teletubbies are going to pop up out of some window and start giving you advice on mouse actions? ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 23:01:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 23:01:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18801 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 23:01:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18797 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 23:01:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 23:01:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C88E519ABE; Thu, 15 May 2003 10:01:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D717819BE6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 10:00:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4FE0xqt029422 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 08:00:59 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4FE0wIG023737 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 08:00:58 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Using 9P(2000) in Unix/Linux(/Windows) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 07:59:05 -0600 (MDT) On Thu, 15 May 2003, Anssi Porttikivi wrote: > A practical need I have in mind and which prompted me to ask: when > booting a CD based 'live' Linux (like Knoppix) on an arbitrary PC > machine I'd like to mount my home directory (with all dot filed > settings) securely over the Internet. we've done mounts-over-ssh in v9fs, through our firewall. It works, but the problem is we have no error handling yet. If you lose the connection for some reason we can't yet unmount the file system in a clean way; and we don't yet make it possible to recreate the mount (and all the fids etc.) if you can get the connection back. Error handling for the 'file server went away' case sucks, basically. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 15 23:29:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 15 23:29:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19247 invoked by uid 1020); 15 May 2003 23:29:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19243 invoked from network); 15 May 2003 23:29:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 May 2003 23:29:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0BAFA19B62; Thu, 15 May 2003 10:29:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C5B819A77 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 10:28:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4FEShqt009995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 08:28:43 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4FEShIG024899 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 08:28:43 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Using 9P(2000) in Unix/Linux(/Windows) In-Reply-To: <200305151302.h4FD2m506279@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 08:26:49 -0600 (MDT) On Thu, 15 May 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > Which is why he's interested in the Plan 9 way of doing things; you > kind of get that for free. Ron's done 9p; the challenge is porting > the Plan 9 authentication module to Linux; otherwise, it does the > things you describe as being necessary for security, without storing > anything locally on the CD (so you can lend it out to your hearts > content). A different question. If you have a small CPU module, with no disk, which has Plan 9 in flash, and the nvram info in #r/nvram, does this get you closer to being secure than a CD-based linux boot? My assumption has always been 'yes' but maybe that's not right. I'm just curious what people think on this one. Obviously physical tampering and the other modes are open. But if we rule those out is the box somewhat safer 'in the field' than a linux box? What can be done to tighten it up further? I've always figured that Plan 9 has a fundamental advantage in this case. It's a not-much-examined assumption on my part. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 00:45:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 00:45:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20387 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 00:45:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20382 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 00:45:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 00:45:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9CC9919A89; Thu, 15 May 2003 11:45:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 547B119A86 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 11:44:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 27632 invoked by uid 991); 15 May 2003 15:44:13 -0000 Message-ID: <20030515154413.27631.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Scott Schwartz Subject: [9fans] usenix Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 11:44:13 -0400 I can't make it this time. If someone who goes can post a trip report for 9fans we'd all be grateful. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 00:58:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 00:58:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20558 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 00:58:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20554 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 00:58:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 00:58:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B43A919A9C; Thu, 15 May 2003 11:58:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9F65419A86 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 11:57:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19GKov-0007hx-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 15 May 2003 16:39:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Brian Inglis Message-ID: Organization: Systematic Software Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <3EB8E817.4090609@ameritech.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Brian.Inglis@systematicsw.ab.ca List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 15:37:02 GMT On Wed, 7 May 2003 14:45:22 GMT in comp.os.plan9, rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com (Russ Cox) wrote: >> Don't blame C, blame the coder. > >Love the sin, hate the sinner? > >[lots of thread snipped] > >You're all nuts. But at least use nelem(a) in >place of sizeof(a)/sizeof(int). shouldn't that be called nwords/nints(a) or else shouldn't the expression be (sizeof(a)/sizeof(*(a)))? Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada -- Brian.Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) fake address use address above to reply From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 01:05:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 01:05:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20640 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 01:05:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20636 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 01:05:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 01:05:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C96E519AC4; Thu, 15 May 2003 12:05:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.181]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4A3B019AAB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 12:04:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-10-145.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.10.145 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 May 2003 16:04:40 -0000 Message-ID: <3EC3C864.5080202@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: ravage@einstein.ssz.com Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: exception handling caused the Ariane 5 rocket accident References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 12:03:32 -0500 > > >You might try reading the report, I can loan you my copy. > I'd like to read the report. Don > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 01:09:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 01:09:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20697 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 01:09:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20693 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 01:09:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 01:09:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5DF2719BA5; Thu, 15 May 2003 12:09:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.180]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A197419B78 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 12:08:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-10-145.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.10.145 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 May 2003 16:08:03 -0000 Message-ID: <3EC3C92E.9000606@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] usenix References: <523594035c139511e92e7ab1a832ff52@plan9.bell-labs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 12:06:54 -0500 > > >http://www.usenix.org/events/usenix03/ataglance.html > Mmmmmm.... fajitas :-D From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 01:20:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 01:20:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20843 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 01:20:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20839 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 01:20:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 01:20:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D2B9B19BB6; Thu, 15 May 2003 12:20:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9277A19B79 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 12:19:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4FGJJc95545; Thu, 15 May 2003 12:19:19 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: <4b7e5d755c4b21a4e2dd0185fd324f83@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 12:19:18 -0400 > >You're all nuts. But at least use nelem(a) in > >place of sizeof(a)/sizeof(int). > > shouldn't that be called nwords/nints(a) or else shouldn't the > expression be (sizeof(a)/sizeof(*(a)))? No, it should be called nelem because it's defined (in libc.h): #define nelem(x) (sizeof(x)/sizeof((x)[0])) You've pointed out a bug in what they were using, which was part of why I suggested nelem. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 01:38:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 01:38:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21145 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 01:38:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21141 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 01:38:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 01:38:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 43E8419BC3; Thu, 15 May 2003 12:38:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 435F219A25 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 12:37:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4FGbUc97035; Thu, 15 May 2003 12:37:30 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: <6cadf077b950e3e3bd64a094ee21a443@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware confused about color depth From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 12:37:30 -0400 > XP? Is it just me, or do the colors and "green field background" and > buttons and such on XP make you think the Teletubbies are going to pop up > out of some window and start giving you advice on mouse actions? I like the colors. Windows hasn't been colorful since 3.1. 95, 98, NT, and 2000 were this drab grey that everyone now seems to think has to be the way computer interfaces look. The vibrant colors make it nicer, ever so slightly like Plan 9. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 01:41:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 01:41:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21187 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 01:41:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21183 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 01:41:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 01:41:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BAE1519BD3; Thu, 15 May 2003 12:41:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr7.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 26E1A19BC4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 12:40:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr7.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id OVR95669; Thu, 15 May 2003 12:39:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AGG16830; Thu, 15 May 2003 12:39:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <015c01c31b00$88f1be00$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware confused about color depth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 18:39:19 +0200 > XP? Is it just me, or do the colors and "green field background" and > buttons and such on XP make you think the Teletubbies are going to pop up > out of some window and start giving you advice on mouse actions? nah, it's real. i wanted to write an ascii text file the other week and it popped up a dialog to ask me how i'd like to write it. whatever happened to? ed file a text . w q From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 01:49:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 01:49:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21292 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 01:49:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21288 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 01:49:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 01:49:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3DB2219BDA; Thu, 15 May 2003 12:49:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 344D419BC4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 12:48:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4FGmGc98101; Thu, 15 May 2003 12:48:16 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware confused about color depth From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <015c01c31b00$88f1be00$e3944251@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 12:48:16 -0400 > whatever happened to? > > ed file > a > text > . > w > q ITYM c:\> copy con file text ^Z 1 file(s) copied c:\> HTH. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 02:00:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 02:00:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21423 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 02:00:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21419 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 02:00:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 02:00:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D7AAF19C01; Thu, 15 May 2003 13:00:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6882219A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 12:59:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <78cf2fe49f66d20da7a3dd521b027749@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware confused about color depth In-Reply-To: <200305150159.h4F1x2L26743@panix1.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 12:59:07 -0400 > so, looking for alternatives to drawterm, I got a demo copy of vmware 4 > for linux. mostly all is well, but it seems vmware is confused about the > depth of the plan9 screen, and that's preventing me from running it in > fullscreen. when I try an error box tells me "unable to turn on direct > graphics. your guest's depth (24) doesn't match your host's (16)". yet > $vgasize on the guest plan9 is 1024x768x16 as it should be. is this a > known issue? can anything be done? (Mark sent his aux/vga output under separate cover. I'm replying to 9fans just so it's in the archives.) term% aux/vga -p vga->attr: vid=0x15AD vga->attr: did=0x0405 [...] vmware Depth 00000018 vmware Bpp 00000020 vmware PseudoColor 00000000 vmware RedMask 00ff0000 vmware GreenMask 0000ff00 vmware BlueMask 000000ff Are you sure your X server is running at 16bpp? VMware looks convinced that you're at 24/32bpp (meaning 24 bits of actual data but 32 bits of space per pixel). The clarity of the register contents is certainly a refreshing change from typical VGAs. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 02:06:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 02:06:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21504 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 02:06:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21500 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 02:06:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 02:06:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 942A119C09; Thu, 15 May 2003 13:06:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sigint.cs.purdue.edu (sigint.cs.purdue.edu [128.10.2.82]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 24E7F19BCB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 13:05:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sigint.cs.purdue.edu (Postfix, from userid 118) id 9DE89279C; Thu, 15 May 2003 12:05:04 -0500 (EST) From: splite@purdue.edu To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware confused about color depth Message-ID: <20030515120504.A1479@sigint.cs.purdue.edu> References: <6cadf077b950e3e3bd64a094ee21a443@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <6cadf077b950e3e3bd64a094ee21a443@plan9.bell-labs.com>; from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com on Thu, May 15, 2003 at 12:37:30PM -0400 X-Disclaimer: Any similarity to an opinion of Purdue is purely coincidental Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 12:05:04 -0500 On Thu, May 15, 2003 at 12:37:30PM -0400, Russ Cox wrote: > > XP? Is it just me, or do the colors and "green field background" and > > buttons and such on XP make you think the Teletubbies are going to pop up > > out of some window and start giving you advice on mouse actions? > > I like the colors. Windows hasn't been colorful since 3.1. > 95, 98, NT, and 2000 were this drab grey that everyone > now seems to think has to be the way computer interfaces look. MS just stole that idea from Motif. They can't even be originally unoriginal. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 03:58:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 03:58:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22622 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 03:58:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22618 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 03:58:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 03:58:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5514219ACA; Thu, 15 May 2003 14:58:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 595A619A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 14:57:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <670171bd546e4d451c49cb94dcc32fdd@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware confused about color depth From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 19:42:07 +0100 >>XP? Is it just me, or do the colors and "green field background" and >>buttons and such on XP make you think the Teletubbies are going to pop up a reviewer for The Times did dub XP `the Teletubby operating system' when it first arrived, mentioning the `child-friendly rounded corners' as well. >>The vibrant colors make it nicer, ever so slightly like Plan 9. i thought the nice thing about Plan 9's scheme was that it avoided intense colours, and was pleasantly restrained. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 04:12:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 04:12:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22791 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 04:12:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22787 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 04:12:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 04:12:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CDF6419BCB; Thu, 15 May 2003 15:12:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr8.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 23CBF199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 15:11:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr8.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id ALH19218; Thu, 15 May 2003 15:07:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AGG52937; Thu, 15 May 2003 15:07:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <054001c31b15$2aa7a980$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <6cadf077b950e3e3bd64a094ee21a443@plan9.bell-labs.com> <20030515120504.A1479@sigint.cs.purdue.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware confused about color depth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 21:07:01 +0200 > ... Motif please don't drag us into _that_ tarpit ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 04:17:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 04:17:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22856 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 04:17:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22852 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 04:17:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 04:17:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A2B819BF7; Thu, 15 May 2003 15:17:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr8.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5C05519BF2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 15:16:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr8.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id ALH18923; Thu, 15 May 2003 15:05:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AGG52495; Thu, 15 May 2003 15:05:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <053201c31b14$ede4da40$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <670171bd546e4d451c49cb94dcc32fdd@caldo.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware confused about color depth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 21:05:19 +0200 > i thought the nice thing about Plan 9's scheme was that it avoided intense > colours, and was pleasantly restrained. I like Plan 9 'cos it's like Paris; either it installs in 15 minutes or it doesn't. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 06:40:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 06:40:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24289 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 06:40:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24285 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 06:40:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 06:40:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C1EEB19C1C; Thu, 15 May 2003 17:40:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 92B0319C0E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 17:39:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA08223 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 17:39:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h4FLdt508249 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 17:39:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305152139.h4FLdt508249@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] usenix In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 15 May 2003 11:44:13 EDT." <20030515154413.27631.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 17:39:55 -0400 Gee Scott, that's too bad. You're the official BoF scheduler, too. Could someone schedule one? I'm not going to be officially at the conference (I'm in Texas for other reasons), but I think non-attendee's can still go to the BoF sessions, right? If it's prior to the 14th, I can go. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 07:20:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 07:20:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24868 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 07:20:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24864 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 07:20:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 07:20:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 326A319C1F; Thu, 15 May 2003 18:20:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail1.panix.com (mail1.panix.com [166.84.1.72]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EF67D19C21 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 18:19:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from panix1.panix.com (panix1.panix.com [166.84.1.1]) by mail1.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54B504881B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 18:19:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from markp@localhost) by panix1.panix.com (8.11.6p2/8.8.8/PanixN1.0) id h4FMJYL21396 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 15 May 2003 18:19:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Message-Id: <200305152219.h4FMJYL21396@panix1.panix.com> X-Mailer: mailx (AT&T/BSD) 9.8 2001-04-01 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware confused about color depth Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 18:19:34 -0400 (EDT) | Are you sure your X server is running at 16bpp? | VMware looks convinced that you're at 24/32bpp | (meaning 24 bits of actual data but 32 bits of | space per pixel). about as sure as I can be; the XF86Config didn't have a Display subsection for anything other than 16bpp. I just set up a 24bpp entry and ran the server under that to see what would happen, and vmware told me my server's DGA extension doesn't support the mode. ---mp From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 09:27:02 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 09:27:02 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27115 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 09:26:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27111 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 09:26:51 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 09:26:51 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 92F0119A9B; Thu, 15 May 2003 20:26:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.monitorbm.co.nz (www.monitorbm.co.nz [203.167.201.38]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3B2A41998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 20:25:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 11570 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 00:25:38 -0000 Received: from mercury.mbmnz.co.nz (HELO MERCURY) (192.168.0.63) by mail.monitorbm.co.nz with SMTP; 16 May 2003 00:25:38 -0000 Message-ID: <06de01c31b42$0bebcc60$3f00a8c0@MERCURY> From: "Andrew Simmons" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Subject: [9fans] File server for NT Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 12:28:16 +1200 Sorry to broadcast this, but I was trying to get through to Steve at Snellwilcox, & got bounced back. Steve, if you're out there and still interested I have a native NT equivalent of u9fs which seems to work pretty well, although not extensively tested as yet. Probably available next week. While I'm here, one puzzling thing I've noticed is that if I execute pwd or ls under Plan 9, and the NT directory is say /c, then I get an attempted walk to /c/pwd or /c/ls first. Is this the expected behaviour? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 09:29:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 09:29:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27208 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 09:29:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27204 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 09:29:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 09:29:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AEC3519C29; Thu, 15 May 2003 20:29:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2992F19ABB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 20:28:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 29945 invoked by uid 991); 16 May 2003 00:28:55 -0000 Message-ID: <20030516002855.29944.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] File server for NT In-Reply-To: Message from "Andrew Simmons" of "Fri, 16 May 2003 12:28:16 +1200." <06de01c31b42$0bebcc60$3f00a8c0@MERCURY> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 20:28:55 -0400 | While I'm here, one puzzling thing I've noticed is that if I execute pwd or | ls under Plan 9, and the NT directory is say /c, then I get an attempted | walk to /c/pwd or /c/ls first. Is this the expected behaviour? The shell's path is (. /bin) right? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 10:05:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 10:05:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28582 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 10:05:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28578 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 10:05:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 10:05:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A5F5C19C2B; Thu, 15 May 2003 21:05:05 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 67CDD19C2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 21:04:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mero.morphisms.net (mero.morphisms.net [66.93.84.246]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DDC524FC6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 21:04:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mero.morphisms.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id F333C25C; Thu, 15 May 2003 21:04:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 21:04:09 -0400 From: William Josephson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] File server for NT Message-ID: <20030516010409.GA68621@mero.morphisms.net> References: <06de01c31b42$0bebcc60$3f00a8c0@MERCURY> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <06de01c31b42$0bebcc60$3f00a8c0@MERCURY> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-No-archive: yes Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: On Fri, May 16, 2003 at 12:28:16PM +1200, Andrew Simmons wrote: > While I'm here, one puzzling thing I've noticed is that if I execute pwd or > ls under Plan 9, and the NT directory is say /c, then I get an attempted > walk to /c/pwd or /c/ls first. Is this the expected behaviour? What's your path? As I recall, the default is to have . at the head of it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 11:07:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 11:07:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31435 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 11:07:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31430 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 11:07:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 11:07:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 870CD19C34; Thu, 15 May 2003 22:07:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C815B19A81 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 22:06:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12793 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 22:06:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h4G265509599 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 22:06:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305160206.h4G265509599@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] File server for NT In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 15 May 2003 21:04:09 EDT." <20030516010409.GA68621@mero.morphisms.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 22:06:05 -0400 Is having dot at the *beginning* of the path really that great of an idea? I've always wondered what was up with that. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 12:55:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 12:55:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3153 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 12:55:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3149 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 12:55:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 12:55:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8CCE019C3D; Thu, 15 May 2003 23:55:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.146]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 569C319C39 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 May 2003 23:54:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.141]) by mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20030516035435.UEFZ14069.mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 15:54:35 +1200 Received: from [203.96.103.136] by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20030516035434.BUSP8926.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[203.96.103.136]> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 15:54:34 +1200 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: [9fans] File server for NT From: Andrew Simmons To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 15:53:16 +1200 > The shell's path is (. /bin) right? Sorry to be obtuse, but are you saying that 9fs is attempting to run pwd or ls on the remote system running u9fs? Re the path name, I have to confess I only looked at it after I'd re-formatted it, possibly erroneously, but I'm confused about the references to dot. From walk(5): The name "." (dot), meaning the current directory, is not used in the protocol. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 14:01:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 14:01:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7946 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 14:01:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7942 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 14:01:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 14:01:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D81519AD7; Fri, 16 May 2003 01:01:05 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A10DF19C38 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 01:00:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mero.morphisms.net (mero.morphisms.net [66.93.84.246]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05B2824FA9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 01:00:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mero.morphisms.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id E916B25B; Fri, 16 May 2003 01:00:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 01:00:16 -0400 From: "William K. Josephson" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] File server for NT Message-ID: <20030516050016.GA69277@mero.morphisms.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-No-archive: yes Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: On Fri, May 16, 2003 at 03:53:16PM +1200, Andrew Simmons wrote: > Sorry to be obtuse, but are you saying that 9fs is attempting to run pwd or > ls on the remote system running u9fs? No, your shell. When you tell the shell to execute 'foo', it will, for each directory, d, in the path, try to execute d/foo. It so happens that by default the first directory in the path is .. > Re the path name, I have to confess I only looked at it after I'd > re-formatted it, possibly erroneously, but I'm confused about the references > to dot. From walk(5): The name "." (dot), meaning the current directory, is > not used in the protocol. The protocol has nothing to do with it; you're just seeing an artifact of how the shell works. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 15:04:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 15:04:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12684 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 15:04:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12679 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 15:04:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 15:04:39 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6046519C47; Fri, 16 May 2003 02:04:23 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9F0D119AC1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 02:03:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mero.morphisms.net (mero.morphisms.net [66.93.84.246]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E03A24FA9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 02:03:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mero.morphisms.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 39EC125B; Fri, 16 May 2003 02:03:10 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 02:03:10 -0400 From: "William K. Josephson" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] File server for NT Message-ID: <20030516060310.GA69595@mero.morphisms.net> References: <20030516050016.GA69277@mero.morphisms.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030516050016.GA69277@mero.morphisms.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-No-archive: yes Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: On Fri, May 16, 2003 at 01:00:16AM -0400, William K. Josephson wrote: > On Fri, May 16, 2003 at 03:53:16PM +1200, Andrew Simmons wrote: > > Sorry to be obtuse, but are you saying that 9fs is attempting to run pwd or > > ls on the remote system running u9fs? > > No, your shell. When you tell the shell to execute 'foo', it > will, for each directory, d, in the path, try to execute d/foo. > It so happens that by default the first directory in the path > is .. And before some wise-guy points it out, of course I meant '"."'. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 15:26:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 15:26:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14366 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 15:26:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14362 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 15:26:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 15:26:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5999F19C45; Fri, 16 May 2003 02:26:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from vmmr9.verisignmail.com (vmmrnat.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C72EC19C46 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 02:25:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms1.verisignmail.com (ms1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.167] (may be forged)) by vmmr9.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with ESMTP id PFG97278; Fri, 16 May 2003 02:25:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma (m227.net81-66-148.noos.fr [81.66.148.227]) by ms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id AGH58201; Fri, 16 May 2003 02:25:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002301c31b74$01c12fa0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200305160206.h4G265509599@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] File server for NT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 08:25:55 +0200 > Is having dot at the *beginning* of the path really that great > of an idea? I've always wondered what was up with that. it never was on lunix, but on plan 9 your path had to be: . /bin to preserve some sort of semantic sanity, given 'everyone is a mortal' on plan 9. or, maybe i'm missing something. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 18:26:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 18:26:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25565 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 18:26:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25561 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 18:26:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 18:26:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE40C19C5A; Fri, 16 May 2003 05:26:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.dirac.net (unknown [151.196.211.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 04F5019C4B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 05:25:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 8908 invoked by uid 60001); 16 May 2003 09:22:58 -0000 Message-ID: <20030516092258.8907.qmail@mail.dirac.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] File server for NT From: Keith Nash Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 16 May 2003 09:22:58 -0000 > it never was on lunix, but on plan 9 your path had to be: > > . > /bin > > to preserve some sort of semantic sanity, given 'everyone is a mortal' on > plan 9. Putting "." at the head of the path means that a system tool will be overridden by anything in the current directory that happens to have the same name. This practice is not advised in Lunix; I have often wondered why it was adopted in Plan 9. Telling Plan 9 to execute dir/tool causes it to look for $path/dir/tool, not ./dir/tool - a consistent and elegant choice of design. I'm not sure whether by 'semantic sanity' you mean preserving an aspect of Lunix' inconsistency in order to provide users with a familiar environment. This isn't the choice that Plan 9's designers usually made. Does anything break if path is set to just "/bin", or to "/bin ."? For example, in cd foo mk developers are free to place their own substitutes for system commands along with their source files in directory foo. Does the official Plan 9 software ever do this? Even if it doesn't, 3rd-party software might, which suggests that we are stuck with using the ". /bin" default for ever. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 19:08:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 19:08:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26630 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 19:08:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26626 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 19:08:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 19:08:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1B3F619C61; Fri, 16 May 2003 06:08:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from 9fs.org (cotswold.demon.co.uk [194.222.75.186]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6755A19C4B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 06:07:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9fs.org ([192.168.100.103]) by 9fs.org; Fri May 16 11:07:40 BST 2003 Received: from 192.168.100.111 ([192.168.100.111]) by 9fs.org; Fri May 16 11:07:40 BST 2003 From: "Nigel Roles" To: "Fans of Plan9" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Subject: [9fans] CIFS server for Plan 9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 11:07:54 +0100 As an alternative to a 9p vfs for Linux, or u9fs for NT, or NFS, you could try my CIFS server, http://www.9fs.org/dist/aquarela. There is a lot to do, but there's nothing like users to generate a priority list of things to implement. It's only tested so far with the Samba client, and WinXP, as these are all I have. Currently, there is enough there to authenticate, and allow most Windows Exploder operations like cutting and pasting of files and file trees to work. Simple editors work, but since locking does not, complex editors like Word do not (yet). It really make you appreciate 9p, when you see how bulky CIFS is. 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(NIPPON DENSO) D00-0143 D00-0242 D00-0262 D00-0371 D00-0432 D00-1030 D00-1060 D00-1090 D00-1210 D00-1220 D00-1230 D00-1240 D00-1250 D00-1330 D00-1331 D00-1600 D40-0080 ZEXEL Z00-2220 Z00-3320 Z00-4520 Z00-5521 Z00-8821 Z00-9720 Z01-0520 Z01-2120 Z02-0820 Z02-0920 Z02-1420 Z02-4020 Z02-4320 Z02-3820 Z03-2820 Z03-3120 Z03-3520 Z04-1520 Z04-2200 Z05-1920 Z30-1420 BOSCH A 333 320 A 333 323 A 334 313 A 334 327 A 334 565 A 334 337 A 334 378 A 334 424 A 334 475 A 334 485 A 334 494 A 334 496 A 334 580 A 334 590 A 334 564 A 334 565 A 334 575 A 334 592 A 334 595 A 334 596 A 334 603 A 334 604 A 334 606 A 334 617 A 334 675 A 334 678 A 334 720 A 334 780 A 334 798 A 334 859 A 334 874 A 334 899 A 334 946 A 335 345 B 335 022 A 336 335 A 336 352 A 336 364 A 336 403 A 336 423 A 336 464 A 336 480 A 336 528 A 336 608 A 336 614 A 336 626 A 336 632 B 334 050 B 334 021 B 336 013 chinadiesel@up369.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 19:23:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 19:23:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26998 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 19:23:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26994 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 19:23:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 19:23:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B649919C67; Fri, 16 May 2003 06:23:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mx01.netapp.com (mx01.netapp.com [198.95.226.53]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 409BB19C65 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 06:22:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frejya.corp.netapp.com (frejya [10.10.20.91]) by mx01.netapp.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/NTAP-1.4) with ESMTP id h4GAMRFB012909 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 03:22:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from place.org (wynne-lap [10.34.17.28]) by frejya.corp.netapp.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/NTAP-1.5) with ESMTP id h4GAMNXv016658 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 03:22:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3EC4BBDB.6090802@place.org> From: Stephen Wynne User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] sco attack on linux Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 03:22:19 -0700 It seems that plan9 users have one more reason to appreciate having a fresh start from which to progress. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 20:24:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 20:24:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28527 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 20:24:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28523 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 20:24:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 20:24:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2540719C6F; Fri, 16 May 2003 07:24:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8490F19C62 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 07:23:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8da01b2728d8cb45aa06be22a8dbb0a6@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Fco.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-jydzhkrhhtysyqcdusjdbjhpmb" Subject: [9fans] change in boot(8): `prog' boot method. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 13:23:57 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-jydzhkrhhtysyqcdusjdbjhpmb Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This change adds a new boot method: prog. The prog method simply runs the named program. I think this can help to clean up a bit the boot process, because at least now the same kernel can boot both from fossil (using a script to run fs(3), venti, and fossil), from kfs, and from other file server. Besides, I'd suggest changing all of fs(3), venti, and fossil to allow them to get their configuration from either a environment variable (like timezone) or a block in one of the devices they are using. This would save some compilations of the kernel just to change the configuration. Besides, there'd be no need to keep different kernels for different configurations. I'll do this change as well when I get some more time (I'm playing with sections in 9load to define sections that should become the contents of environment variables). diff -n /n/dump/2003/0505/sys/src/9/boot /sys/src/9/boot diff -n /n/dump/2003/0505/sys/src/9/boot/boot.h /sys/src/9/boot/boot.h /n/dump/2003/0505/sys/src/9/boot/boot.h:72 a /sys/src/9/boot/boot.h:73,75 > extern void configprog(Method*); > extern int connectprog(void); > diff -n /n/dump/2003/0505/sys/src/9/boot/bootmkfile /sys/src/9/boot/bootmkfile /n/dump/2003/0505/sys/src/9/boot/bootmkfile:14 a /sys/src/9/boot/bootmkfile:15 > prog.$O\ Only in /sys/src/9/boot: prog.c prog.c is attached. hth --upas-jydzhkrhhtysyqcdusjdbjhpmb Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=prog.c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit #include #include #include <../boot/boot.h> static char *file; void configprog(Method *mp) { if(bootdisk != nil) file = bootdisk; else file = "#//boot/boot.rc"; } int connectprog(void) { char **arg, **argp; int pid; if(stat(file, statbuf, sizeof statbuf) < 0) return -1; print("prog %s...\n", file); execl(file, "boot.rc", nil); fatal("can't exec prog"); return -1; } --upas-jydzhkrhhtysyqcdusjdbjhpmb-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 20:47:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 20:47:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29104 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 20:47:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29100 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 20:47:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 20:47:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5156B19C6E; Fri, 16 May 2003 07:47:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 34C8C19C6E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 07:46:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19GdYD-0000oC-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 16 May 2003 12:39:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Andrew Simmons Message-ID: Organization: Xtra Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , <20030516050016.GA69277@mero.morphisms.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] File server for NT Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 11:38:49 GMT in article 20030516050016.GA69277@mero.morphisms.net, William K. Josephson at jkw@eecs.harvard.edu wrote on 5/16/03 5:01 PM: > On Fri, May 16, 2003 at 03:53:16PM +1200, Andrew Simmons wrote: >> Sorry to be obtuse, but are you saying that 9fs is attempting to run pwd or >> ls on the remote system running u9fs? > > No, your shell. When you tell the shell to execute 'foo', it > will, for each directory, d, in the path, try to execute d/foo. > It so happens that by default the first directory in the path > is .. > >> Re the path name, I have to confess I only looked at it after I'd >> re-formatted it, possibly erroneously, but I'm confused about the references >> to dot. From walk(5): The name "." (dot), meaning the current directory, is >> not used in the protocol. > > The protocol has nothing to do with it; you're just seeing an > artifact of how the shell works. > I think we're talking at cross-purposes here. I'm running Windows 2000, and don't knowingly have a shell as such. I'm running Plan 9 in a VMWare virtual machine, talking to an NT service similar to u9fs on the same physical machine. In the Plan 9 VM, I connect to the NT service by typing something like: 9fs ajs I then authenticate via 9pany if necessary. After that, the drives on my machine are visible from the Plan 9 VM as /n/ajs/c and so on. If my current directory on the Plan 9 VM is /n/ajs/c/nurdge, and I execute the command pwd, then the first thing that seems to happen in the NT service is that I get a 9p2000 message to walk to /n/ajs/c/nurdge/pwd. This fails, but the pwd command eventually produces the right result. Similarly with the ls command. What I was trying to find out is, does 9fs send the walk messages I have attempted to describe? If so, why? If not, am I hallucinating? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 21:56:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 21:56:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30344 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 21:56:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30340 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 21:56:47 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 21:56:47 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 535BE19C77; Fri, 16 May 2003 08:56:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F06B219C68 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 08:55:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9ae01ec77d52ccacd04fb1e41df45677@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] File server for NT In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 08:55:11 -0400 > machine are visible from the Plan 9 VM as /n/ajs/c and so on. If my current > directory on the Plan 9 VM is /n/ajs/c/nurdge, and I execute the command > pwd, then the first thing that seems to happen in the NT service is that I > get a 9p2000 message to walk to /n/ajs/c/nurdge/pwd. This fails, but the pwd > command eventually produces the right result. Similarly with the ls command. > What I was trying to find out is, does 9fs send the walk messages I have > attempted to describe? If so, why? If not, am I hallucinating? As everyone else said, when you type "pwd" your shell searches your path -- (. /bin) -- for the binary to run. This means it tries to access "./pwd" and then "/bin/pwd". The first turns into "/n/ajs/c/nurdge/pwd" since . is "/n/ajs/c/nurdge". You can simulate this manually by typing "./pwd; /bin/pwd". Also, if you typed "/bin/pwd" directly, then you wouldn't see any traffic. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 22:25:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 22:25:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30711 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 22:25:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30707 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 22:25:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 22:25:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6027A19C79; Fri, 16 May 2003 09:25:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from klastr1.icpf.cas.cz (klastr1.icpf.cas.cz [147.231.137.254]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B61C119C55 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 09:24:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from klastr1.icpf.cas.cz (klastr1.icpf.cas.cz [147.231.137.254]) by klastr1.icpf.cas.cz (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4GDSSH15261 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 15:28:28 +0200 From: alexandr babic To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] plan9 licence Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 15:28:28 +0200 (CEST) hi! short question, i want short answer! what's plan9 operating system licence? alexandr babic ********************* * babic@icpf.cas.cz * ********************* From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 22:27:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 22:27:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30746 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 22:27:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30742 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 22:27:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 22:27:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5ECFF19C82; Fri, 16 May 2003 09:27:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nigel.9fs.org (cotswold.demon.co.uk [194.222.75.186]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4580419C7D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 09:26:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4d6fe6fa99fc311dc7511f4fa0bf6fb8@9fs.org> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9 licence From: "Nigel Roles" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 14:26:50 +0100 > hi! > short question, i want short answer! > what's plan9 operating system licence? cat /LICENSE From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 22:33:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 22:33:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30824 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 22:33:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30820 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 22:33:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 22:33:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 31B7819C7C; Fri, 16 May 2003 09:33:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from goliat.eik.bme.hu (goliat.eik.bme.hu [152.66.115.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 300C419C74 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 09:32:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by goliat.eik.bme.hu (Postfix, from userid 455) id B9BC2FEE1; Fri, 16 May 2003 15:32:51 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by goliat.eik.bme.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B042FE48 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 15:32:51 +0200 (MEST) From: FODEMESI Gergely X-X-Sender: fgergo@goliat To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9 licence In-Reply-To: <4d6fe6fa99fc311dc7511f4fa0bf6fb8@9fs.org> Message-ID: References: <4d6fe6fa99fc311dc7511f4fa0bf6fb8@9fs.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 15:32:51 +0200 (MEST) p /LICENSE On Fri, 16 May 2003, Nigel Roles wrote: > > hi! > > short question, i want short answer! > > what's plan9 operating system licence? > > cat /LICENSE > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 22:36:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 22:36:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30877 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 22:36:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30873 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 22:36:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 22:36:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E081619C7E; Fri, 16 May 2003 09:36:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nigel.9fs.org (cotswold.demon.co.uk [194.222.75.186]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6226D19C7B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 09:35:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9 licence From: "Nigel Roles" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 14:35:29 +0100 p /L* > p /LICENSE > > On Fri, 16 May 2003, Nigel Roles wrote: > >> > hi! >> > short question, i want short answer! >> > what's plan9 operating system licence? >> >> cat /LICENSE >> >> From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 22:39:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 22:39:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30984 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 22:39:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30980 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 22:39:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 22:39:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0DC2A19C87; Fri, 16 May 2003 09:39:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from klastr1.icpf.cas.cz (klastr1.icpf.cas.cz [147.231.137.254]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6418B19C7A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 09:38:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from klastr1.icpf.cas.cz (klastr1.icpf.cas.cz [147.231.137.254]) by klastr1.icpf.cas.cz (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4GDgeH15369 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 15:42:40 +0200 From: alexandr babic To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] plan9 licence (2) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 15:42:40 +0200 (CEST) hey guys! thanx and stop the jokes like: cat /L*, p /LICENSE babic@icpf.cas.cz From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 22:41:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 22:41:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31015 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 22:41:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31011 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 22:41:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 22:41:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B391419C88; Fri, 16 May 2003 09:41:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A8D3E19C7A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 09:40:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7eb68488e1ebe4a2b75239bed1c5d8ce@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] File server for NT From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 14:43:46 +0100 > I think we're talking at cross-purposes here. I'm running Windows 2000, and > don't knowingly have a shell as such. the shell is the thing you're typing "pwd" to! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 22:44:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 22:44:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31037 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 22:44:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31033 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 22:44:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 22:44:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DB8DD19C83; Fri, 16 May 2003 09:44:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E7B8B19C89 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 09:43:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] File server for NT From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <002301c31b74$01c12fa0$e3944251@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 14:46:36 +0100 > it never was on lunix, but on plan 9 your path had to be: > > . > /bin > > to preserve some sort of semantic sanity, given 'everyone is a mortal' on plan > 9. > > or, maybe i'm missing something. i've been running with path=(/bin .) for years under plan 9 with no problems. not only is it somewhat more secure, it's also a lot faster if you've chdir'd to a slow external filesystem... until you mistype a command! i have no idea why the default is (. /bin). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 23:17:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 23:17:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31605 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 23:17:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31601 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 23:17:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 23:17:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA17E19A0C; Fri, 16 May 2003 10:17:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1872319A65 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 10:16:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h4GDK2a9021442 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 09:20:02 -0400 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] File server for NT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 09:20:02 -0400 (EDT) > > i have no idea why the default is (. /bin). > Just out of curiosity, how many times have others found it useful to be able to specify the "path" from $path? Excluding the current debate about the pecking order of dot ('cause that's a good reason if folks fall on one of two stakes), wouldn't it be less like Unix and more like Plan 9 to do something like have rc bind . to /bin for each cd? ... or is that just too wasteful? The code to parse the path is fairly small and fits into the rest of the `struct word' semantics. It's also not very good for rc's portability. I suppose one could ignore the path given in plan9.c:/Execute, but that's not going to save much on code clarity. Anyhow - just curious. Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 23:24:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 23:24:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31754 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 23:24:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31750 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 23:24:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 23:24:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E3A8B19BC5; Fri, 16 May 2003 10:24:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3340E19BC2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 10:23:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1fa320378ce8ff727c76ea22e270936d@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9 licence In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 10:23:21 -0400 http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9dist/license.html From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 16 23:29:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 16 23:29:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31876 invoked by uid 1020); 16 May 2003 23:29:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31845 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 23:29:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 May 2003 23:29:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2940419BCC; Fri, 16 May 2003 10:29:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 539C119BCC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 10:28:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4GES5fD007777 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 08:28:05 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4GES5IG004294 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 08:28:05 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] File server for NT In-Reply-To: <200305160206.h4G265509599@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 08:26:09 -0600 (MDT) On Thu, 15 May 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > Is having dot at the *beginning* of the path really that great > of an idea? I've always wondered what was up with that. it's great if you're trying to social engineer somebody on Unix, right? Sometimes it even wins you a free TV. (For those who remember the Gould (I think) booth at one of the Unix conventions long ago ... root had a path with '.' at the front, and breaking in was just a matter of smooth-talking the sysadmin into cd-ing somewhere and typing 'ls') ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 17 00:20:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 17 00:20:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 442 invoked by uid 1020); 17 May 2003 00:20:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 438 invoked from network); 17 May 2003 00:20:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 May 2003 00:20:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 63ED8199D5; Fri, 16 May 2003 11:20:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8AA9119BF1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 11:19:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h4GFN5wZ021782 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 09:23:05 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h4GFN53m021778 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 09:23:05 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] File server for NT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 09:23:05 -0600 (MDT) On Fri, 16 May 2003, ron minnich wrote: > (For those who remember the Gould (I think) booth at one of the Unix > conventions long ago ... root had a path with '.' at the front, and > breaking in was just a matter of smooth-talking the sysadmin into cd-ing > somewhere and typing 'ls') > I think that story was described in the introductory chapters of "Practical UNIX and Internet Security" by Spafford and Garfinkel.. (Just like the arianne rocket disaster everyone talked about so much recently is given as a case in point in Chapter 6 of TPOP.) To throw in my $0.02 -- I've always explained (. /bin) to myself with the fact that it's a very convenient thing not to have to type "./" every time (though I still get caught doing it ;) and as far as security goes it's pretty much irrelevant -- it's all contained within the private namespace of that user and as soon as that goes away... Yes, there are many nasty things one can do, but they're not nearly as bad as having an 'ls' in the current directory doing 'cp /bin/sh /tmp/...; chmod 4755 /tmp/...' What are the chances (. /bin) is this way just to irritate your average unix security expert? andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 17 01:02:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 17 01:02:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1084 invoked by uid 1020); 17 May 2003 01:02:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1080 invoked from network); 17 May 2003 01:02:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 May 2003 01:02:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 508BA19C4C; Fri, 16 May 2003 12:02:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from aquamar.escet.urjc.es (plan9.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.205]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EF21D19A81 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 12:01:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9c375c6222dcf8b411ef4ca86f94fb12@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Fco.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] change in 9load Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 17:56:27 +0200 Hi, I found that using 9load from a CD had problems selecting a bootfile in a disk partion. I seems that the sd driver was not being initialized in the first loop and then probe couldnt find any partition. This change was enough to allow me to boot from a CD and use a kernel in the hard disk. The changes are all inside main() diff -n /n/dump/2003/0516/sys/src/boot/pc /sys/src/boot/pc diff -n /n/dump/2003/0516/sys/src/boot/pc/load.c /sys/src/boot/pc/load.c /n/dump/2003/0516/sys/src/boot/pc/load.c:238 a /sys/src/boot/pc/load.c:238 > Medium *inimp; /n/dump/2003/0516/sys/src/boot/pc/load.c:255 a /sys/src/boot/pc/load.c:256 > inimp = nil; /n/dump/2003/0516/sys/src/boot/pc/load.c:260,262 c /sys/src/boot/pc/load.c:261,262 < print("using %s!%s!%s\n", mp->name, mp->part, mp->ini); < dotini(mp->inifs); < break; --- > if (inimp == nil) > inimp = mp; /n/dump/2003/0516/sys/src/boot/pc/load.c:263 a /sys/src/boot/pc/load.c:264,267 > } > if (inimp != nil){ > print("using %s!%s!%s\n", mp->name, mp->part, mp->ini); > dotini(inimp->inifs); hth From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 17 01:03:53 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 17 01:03:53 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1098 invoked by uid 1020); 17 May 2003 01:03:53 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1094 invoked from network); 17 May 2003 01:03:53 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 May 2003 01:03:53 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D116A19C8B; Fri, 16 May 2003 12:03:29 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BC1F519A81 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 12:02:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00018 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 12:02:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h4GG27512619 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 12:02:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305161602.h4GG27512619@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] File server for NT In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 16 May 2003 09:23:05 MDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 12:02:07 -0400 > that it's a very convenient thing not to have to type "./" every time (though > I still get caught doing it ;) and as far as security goes it's pretty much > irrelevant -- it's all contained within the private namespace of that user and > as soon as that goes away... Yeah, but just because the namespace is private to you doesn't mean that someone can't put something nasty in it. ``Hey Andrey, there's something weird in my home directory; would you mind taking a look at it?'' - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 17 01:06:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 17 01:06:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1148 invoked by uid 1020); 17 May 2003 01:06:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1143 invoked from network); 17 May 2003 01:06:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 May 2003 01:06:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3451319C8F; Fri, 16 May 2003 12:06:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fsuj20.rz.uni-jena.de (fsuj20.rz.uni-jena.de [141.35.1.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C23B819C89 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 12:05:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from virusscan.rz.uni-jena.de (virusscan.rz.uni-jena.de [141.35.1.23]) by fsuj20.rz.uni-jena.de (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h4GG58Vg002898 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 18:05:08 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from virusscan.rz.uni-jena.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by virusscan.rz.uni-jena.de (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4GG57R02836 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 18:05:07 +0200 Received: from fsuj27.rz.uni-jena.de ([141.35.1.20]) by virusscan.rz.uni-jena.de (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Fri, 16 May 2003 18:05:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from lws04.rz.uni-jena.de (lws04.rz.uni-jena.de [141.35.2.144]) by fsuj27.rz.uni-jena.de (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h4GG57o17251 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 18:05:07 +0200 Received: (from p3kima@localhost) by lws04.rz.uni-jena.de (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4GG56C05159 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 16 May 2003 18:05:06 +0200 From: Martin Kielhorn To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20030516160506.GA5145@lws04.rz.uni-jena.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: [9fans] Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 18:05:06 +0200 Has there ever been an attempt to provide free accounts on a Plan 9 network for people curious to "play" with it. I've found several Unix servers where free shell accounts are available (like m-net.arbornet.org). I wasn't able to locate something comparable for Plan 9. I would really like an open Plan 9 CPU server. Maybe I could even connect to it with drawterm or vnc because I would really like to learn programming for rio. How many graphical logins could a typical (perhaps 256M, 500 MHz, shared 155Mbit internet) cheap server provide? On m-net there are often 20 - 30 people logged in and all programs still work responsive (some people surve the web others read mails and many are idle - everything in com- mand line). Martin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 17 01:07:56 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 17 01:07:56 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1183 invoked by uid 1020); 17 May 2003 01:07:56 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1179 invoked from network); 17 May 2003 01:07:56 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 May 2003 01:07:56 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EB01B19C95; Fri, 16 May 2003 12:07:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0522F19C8E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 12:06:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <808c2a1d827ad37ab041b56f5822cb77@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, sah@softcardsystems.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Re: factotum Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 12:06:10 -0400 sah asks: > About a year ago you gave me a magic incantation > for cpurc that would set up a key in none's factotum > so that httpds calls would find it: > > auth/factotum -s factotum.httpd -n -m /n/kremvax -o none > auth/secretpem /usr/web/lib/key.pem > unmount /n/kremvax This functionality, which didn't actually work right anyway, has been replaced by the owner= tag on keys, which works well. Add the key to your normal factotum key ring, with the tag owner=none. Note also that auth/secretpem is no more (see rsa(8)). We don't need to run TLS services as bootes anymore. > I'm getting a usage error from factotum and it appears > that while the manpage states -o is valid, > /sys/src/cmd/auth/factotum/fs.c:/ARGBEGIN behaves > otherwise. I just fixed the man page. It already described the owner= tag but I'd forgotten to remove the -o text. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 17 01:09:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 17 01:09:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1202 invoked by uid 1020); 17 May 2003 01:09:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1198 invoked from network); 17 May 2003 01:09:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 May 2003 01:09:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BBF5419C92; Fri, 16 May 2003 12:09:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 54A4919C72 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 12:08:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] File server for NT In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 12:08:21 -0400 If path were (/bin .) we'd be having a discussion about how stupid it was that if someone put an 8.out in /386/bin you wouldn't be able to run recently compiled programs. To each his own. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 17 01:20:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 17 01:20:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1320 invoked by uid 1020); 17 May 2003 01:20:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1316 invoked from network); 17 May 2003 01:20:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 May 2003 01:20:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E64FC19CA3; Fri, 16 May 2003 12:20:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 84DDF19C96 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 12:19:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4GGJXqt021618 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 10:19:33 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4GGJWIG008814 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 10:19:32 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] File server for NT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 10:17:36 -0600 (MDT) On Fri, 16 May 2003, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > To throw in my $0.02 -- I've always explained (. /bin) to myself with > the fact that it's a very convenient thing not to have to type "./" > every time (though I still get caught doing it ;) and as far as security > goes it's pretty much irrelevant -- it's all contained within the > private namespace of that user and as soon as that goes away... that's why I think of it as a Unix issue only. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 17 01:26:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 17 01:26:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1376 invoked by uid 1020); 17 May 2003 01:26:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1372 invoked from network); 17 May 2003 01:26:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 May 2003 01:26:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B90AF19C9E; Fri, 16 May 2003 12:26:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from thefrayedknot.armory.com (thefrayedknot.armory.com [192.122.209.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id AA92519C9A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 12:25:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 28689 invoked by uid 1000); 16 May 2003 16:25:47 -0000 From: Andrew To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? Message-ID: <20030516162547.GA28676@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030516160506.GA5145@lws04.rz.uni-jena.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030516160506.GA5145@lws04.rz.uni-jena.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 09:25:47 -0700 ive been trying to get an open plan9 network going, i was almost done when my fileserver broke (i think the motherboard gave up). I have some other boxes to move it to, just havent had time, but probably will this weekend. On Fri, May 16, 2003 at 06:05:06PM +0200, Martin Kielhorn wrote: > Has there ever been an attempt to provide free accounts > on a Plan 9 network for people curious to "play" with it. > > I've found several Unix servers where free shell accounts > are available (like m-net.arbornet.org). I wasn't able to > locate something comparable for Plan 9. > > I would really like an open Plan 9 CPU server. Maybe I > could even connect to it with drawterm or vnc because I > would really like to learn programming for rio. > > How many graphical logins could a typical (perhaps 256M, > 500 MHz, shared 155Mbit internet) cheap server provide? > > On m-net there are often 20 - 30 people logged in and all > programs still work responsive (some people surve the web > others read mails and many are idle - everything in com- > mand line). > > Martin > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 17 07:08:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 17 07:08:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5055 invoked by uid 1020); 17 May 2003 07:08:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5050 invoked from network); 17 May 2003 07:08:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 May 2003 07:08:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E185F19BF9; Fri, 16 May 2003 18:08:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 24CB919BF1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 18:07:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8c5ea75666c269999c7e93e2c196bf19@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] File server for NT From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 15:07:19 -0700 Like rog, I've been running with path=(/bin .) for years, since I noticed attempts by rc to walk into DOS and remotely-served file systems when looking for commands. The things that make set-id programs found by "." in PATH on Unix so dangerous are the relatively immutable namespace of a given Unix system and the power that can be achieved via set-id execution. Since the namespace is essentially unchangeable, evildoers can accurately predict where files will be found when their trojan horse runs. Plan 9 offers less predictability, and one could drastically rearrange one's namespace when running a suspect program (though obviously this doesn't apply to trojan horses). For example, run ramfs, copy the binary into /tmp, unmount and unbind as much as possible, notably /, /bin and /srv, and run the program in /tmp. Since Plan 9 doesn't have set-id execution, the worst a trojan horse can do is run as the user who invokes it, which admittedly can be bad news for that user, but it does limit the potential damage considerably. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 17 07:34:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 17 07:34:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5316 invoked by uid 1020); 17 May 2003 07:34:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5312 invoked from network); 17 May 2003 07:34:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 May 2003 07:34:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EE1C519C68; Fri, 16 May 2003 18:34:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.185]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B99D219BD9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 18:33:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-10-145.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.10.145 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 May 2003 22:33:39 -0000 Message-ID: <3EC5750D.9090706@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] File server for NT References: <8c5ea75666c269999c7e93e2c196bf19@collyer.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 18:32:29 -0500 > > >Plan9 offers less predictability, and one could drastically rearrange >one's namespace when running a suspect program (though obviously this >doesn't apply to trojan horses). > Unless, of course, the trojan or malicious code runs newns and creates a default namespace. Then, you can regain a decent sense of reliability. Don From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 17 07:38:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 17 07:38:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5359 invoked by uid 1020); 17 May 2003 07:38:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5355 invoked from network); 17 May 2003 07:38:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 May 2003 07:38:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA7DB19C98; Fri, 16 May 2003 18:38:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E651E19C8C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 18:37:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <87582f973e5ea1e697c5b95aac3318e3@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] File server for NT From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <3EC5750D.9090706@ameritech.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 15:37:05 -0700 It was just an example, not a bullet-proof recipe. I knew I should have mentioned "rfork m", which lets you prevent the malicious code from mounting anything useful. So one can still prevent malicious code from having predictable non-degenerate namespaces. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 17 07:40:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 17 07:40:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5378 invoked by uid 1020); 17 May 2003 07:40:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5374 invoked from network); 17 May 2003 07:40:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 May 2003 07:40:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7DB8719C96; Fri, 16 May 2003 18:40:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E412419A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 18:39:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7f3c0429076f59dc5ba8e3513802d2d6@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <20030516160506.GA5145@lws04.rz.uni-jena.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 15:39:22 -0700 The upstream bandwidth is probably the major resource requirement. I've got adequate resources to offer accounts but my ADSL is *very* A: only 128Kb/s upstream. There's also the issue of WORM-block consumption or, in venti, arena-block consumption. If giving out accounts to complete strangers, I'd want to look at what to do about the wide-open permissions that seem to be necessary under /mail and the ability of anybody to create and remove files from /srv. Apparently no one can rename files in /srv (the attempt is quietly ignored), which helps. It might be handy to have a way to create a new #s instance or perhaps to be able to copy #s during rfork (RFSRVG?). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 17 07:52:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 17 07:52:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5462 invoked by uid 1020); 17 May 2003 07:52:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5458 invoked from network); 17 May 2003 07:52:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 May 2003 07:52:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D11C19C70; Fri, 16 May 2003 18:52:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.185]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id D18EA19CA4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 18:51:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-10-145.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.10.145 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 May 2003 22:51:58 -0000 Message-ID: <3EC57959.9020409@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? References: <7f3c0429076f59dc5ba8e3513802d2d6@collyer.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 18:50:49 -0500 > > >If giving out accounts to complete strangers, I'd want to look at what >to do about the wide-open permissions that seem to be necessary under >/mail and the ability of anybody to create and remove files from /srv. >Apparently no one can rename files in /srv (the attempt is quietly >ignored), which helps. It might be handy to have a way to create a >new #s instance or perhaps to be able to copy #s during rfork >(RFSRVG?). > Just as a note, I attempted this same thing for friends a while back. I was left with a feeling of insecurity, however. While plan9 is great for securing against individuals without access to a CPU server, allowing users to connect leaves many things dynamically changeable. Of course, this is fine for most research situations where users have a sense of loyalty to their environment. However, a "free 9shell" situation would have many possibilities for on-system manipulation. My biggest problems related to securing the network. Any user can alter the routing tables, arp tables, etc. Not to mention, users are also able to put the ether device in promisc mode and write to the ether device raw. This obviously leaves sniffing easily open to both hubs and switched environments, as spoofing to hijack the network is extremely simplified on plan9. In fact, if you know what you're doing, you can do it without compiling any special code. I wrote patches to quash these issues in plan9 revision 3 and had good success with it. Though, I've not looked at the differences in the network code from 3 to 4, so, I wouldn't know how my patches would be relevant now. Since this is something I've had on the back burners of my in-mind todo-list, I may upgrade the patches to 4. Don > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 17 07:55:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 17 07:55:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5506 invoked by uid 1020); 17 May 2003 07:55:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5502 invoked from network); 17 May 2003 07:55:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 May 2003 07:55:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B85E419CA9; Fri, 16 May 2003 18:55:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3A01419CA8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 18:54:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h4GMvhwZ022582 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 16:57:43 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h4GMvhVb022578 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 16:57:43 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? In-Reply-To: <7f3c0429076f59dc5ba8e3513802d2d6@collyer.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 16:57:43 -0600 (MDT) On Fri, 16 May 2003, Geoff Collyer wrote: > If giving out accounts to complete strangers, I'd want to look at what > to do about the wide-open permissions that seem to be necessary under > /mail and the ability of anybody to create and remove files from /srv. > Apparently no one can rename files in /srv (the attempt is quietly > ignored), which helps. It might be handy to have a way to create a > new #s instance or perhaps to be able to copy #s during rfork > (RFSRVG?). > you know, this may be a good small project -- identify potential soft spots of a Plan 9 installation that has completely untrusted users. i had myself created a small system to which i gave access to friends to connect with drawterm, but my setup was much different than a normal plan9 installation -- a kfs/cpu/auth server running within a host-only vmware session in a restricted unix process, with limited cpu time and disk space. i had forwarded ports 567 and 17013 to the 172.16... internal ip address of the box, and have told everybody that they simply won't be able to connect to anything external.. the accounts were just for educational purpose, and the occasional xscreensaver hack :) unfortunately my university keeps thinking that i'm running P2P applications and takes me off the net whenever it feels like it, so i can't offer this setup for general consumption... does anyone remember the alpha boxes Compaq had setup three years ago? they gave free accounts to whomever wanted them and let them test their software on spiffy fast alphas running tru64 and linux.. that's the setup i was trying to accomplish.. andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 17 08:01:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 17 08:01:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5549 invoked by uid 1020); 17 May 2003 08:01:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5545 invoked from network); 17 May 2003 08:01:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 May 2003 08:01:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 56EE719CAC; Fri, 16 May 2003 19:01:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp807.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp807.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.186]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 33F0419CAA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 19:00:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-10-145.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.10.145 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 May 2003 23:00:15 -0000 Message-ID: <3EC57B49.8010403@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? References: <7f3c0429076f59dc5ba8e3513802d2d6@collyer.net> <3EC57959.9020409@ameritech.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 18:59:05 -0500 > I wrote patches to quash these issues > in plan9 revision 3 and had good success with it. Though, I've > not looked at the differences in the network code from 3 to 4, so, > I wouldn't know how my patches would be relevant now. As an addendum, it should be noted that these constraints make plan9 look less and less like plan9 and more and more like a UNIX superuser environment. Which, gives me a strange desire to design a 9p network amendment, seperating the actual network code to a single network server. So, now, instead of just a CPU Auth and FS, you'd also have a Net. Imports might actually make this desirable, allowing a single administrator to maintain each fragment of a complete virtual operating system. It might be possible to hack in more support for a "firewall" or other things using this kind of scheme. Don From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 17 08:06:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 17 08:06:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5583 invoked by uid 1020); 17 May 2003 08:06:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5579 invoked from network); 17 May 2003 08:06:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 May 2003 08:06:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A70619B9C; Fri, 16 May 2003 19:06:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.184]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id CB04D19CB0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 May 2003 19:05:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-10-145.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.10.145 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 May 2003 23:05:54 -0000 Message-ID: <3EC57C9C.4030000@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 19:04:44 -0500 > > >does anyone remember the alpha boxes Compaq had setup three years ago? they >gave free accounts to whomever wanted them and let them test their software >on spiffy fast alphas running tru64 and linux.. that's the setup i was >trying to accomplish.. > Yeah, www.testdrive.compaq.com is the signup page. I still use this service to study Alpha assembly. Don > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 18 01:49:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 18 01:49:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22958 invoked by uid 1020); 18 May 2003 01:49:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22954 invoked from network); 18 May 2003 01:49:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 May 2003 01:49:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 83BD119A0D; Sat, 17 May 2003 12:49:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mta1p.point.ne.jp (mta1.point.ne.jp [210.188.175.70]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D306019980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 17 May 2003 12:48:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vc9.point.ne.jp ([211.1.103.137]) by mta1p.point.ne.jp with ESMTP id <20030517164802.JGZO26982.mta1p@vc9.point.ne.jp> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 01:48:02 +0900 Received: from fvc2-p.point.ne.jp by vc9.point.ne.jp (Scanmail) with ESMTP id 3D2A92AA0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 01:48:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from ISABELLA ([218.230.113.223]) by fvc2-p.point.ne.jp with SMTP id <20030517164801.SXVE20751.fvc2-p@ISABELLA> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 01:48:01 +0900 From: kazumi iwane To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailer: Datula version 1.51.09 for Windows Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-Id: <20030517164801.SXVE20751.fvc2-p@ISABELLA> Subject: [9fans] 9bitsy partitions Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 01:48:01 +0900 Hello 9fans, About 9bitsy's partitions. There are two docs (Booting101 and a Wiki page) about the subject, and they differ with each other. And then, source files (paq.c and cpurc) say something entirely different. /sys/src/9/bitsy/Booting101: partition define bootldr 0x000000 0x040000 2 partition define params 0x040000 0x040000 0 partition define kernel 0x080000 0x0c0000 0 partition define user 0x140000 0x0c0000 0 partition define ramdisk 0x200000 0xa00000 0 partition define fs 0xc00000 0x400000 0 Wiki: partition define bootldr 0x000000 0x040000 2 partition define params 0x040000 0x040000 0 partition define kernel 0x080000 0x0c0000 0 partition define user 0x140000 0x0c0000 0 partition define ramdisk 0x200000 0x600000 0 partition define fs 0x800000 0x800000 0 /sys/src/9/boot/paq.c: char *fparts[] = { "add bootldr 0x0000000 0x0040000", "add params 0x0040000 0x0080000", "add kernel 0x0080000 0x0140000", "add user 0x0140000 0x0200000", "add ramdisk 0x0200000 0x0800000", }; /sys/src/9/bitsy/paqfiles/cpurc: echo -n add fs 0x0800000 0x1000000 > /dev/flash/flashctl Should I trust paq.c & cpurc? -- kazumi From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 18 02:31:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 18 02:31:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23444 invoked by uid 1020); 18 May 2003 02:31:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23440 invoked from network); 18 May 2003 02:31:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 May 2003 02:31:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE1D819A2A; Sat, 17 May 2003 13:31:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DD182199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 17 May 2003 13:30:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h4HGY1a9025575 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 17 May 2003 12:34:01 -0400 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: factotum In-Reply-To: <808c2a1d827ad37ab041b56f5822cb77@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 12:34:01 -0400 (EDT) I'm still trying to figure out how to set up https on my cpu server using the newer rsa(8) and factotum. I'm trying to come up to speed on the https mechanism, so please bear with my perhaps misguided questions. I replaced the prior magic with: echo `{auth/rsagen -b 1024} 'service=https owner=none' >/mnt/factotum/ctl which gives me: echo: write error: unknown proto rsa Since I don't get the same interaction on the terminal, I guess my cpu kernel is out of date? Looking in /sys/src/9/pc I see there's now a pcauth for CONF. Which one do I want - pcauth, or pccpu? Is pccpu now for non-authenticating cpus? Why does it matter? Any tips would be quite appreciated. Cheers, Sam On Fri, 16 May 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > sah asks: > > > About a year ago you gave me a magic incantation > > for cpurc that would set up a key in none's factotum > > so that httpds calls would find it: > > > > auth/factotum -s factotum.httpd -n -m /n/kremvax -o none > > auth/secretpem /usr/web/lib/key.pem > > unmount /n/kremvax > > This functionality, which didn't actually work right anyway, > has been replaced by the owner= tag on keys, which works well. > Add the key to your normal factotum key ring, with > the tag owner=none. Note also that auth/secretpem > is no more (see rsa(8)). > > We don't need to run TLS services as bootes anymore. > > > I'm getting a usage error from factotum and it appears > > that while the manpage states -o is valid, > > /sys/src/cmd/auth/factotum/fs.c:/ARGBEGIN behaves > > otherwise. > > I just fixed the man page. It already described the > owner= tag but I'd forgotten to remove the -o text. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 18 03:21:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 18 03:21:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24065 invoked by uid 1020); 18 May 2003 03:21:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24061 invoked from network); 18 May 2003 03:21:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 May 2003 03:21:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6C01B19A2D; Sat, 17 May 2003 14:21:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7CD42199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 17 May 2003 14:20:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h4HHO6a9025690 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 17 May 2003 13:24:06 -0400 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: factotum In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 13:24:06 -0400 (EDT) Sam, RTFEFTM. (examples from the manpage) ok, i figured someone should say it. Any docs to explain pcauth vs. pccpu? Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 18 03:39:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 18 03:39:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24315 invoked by uid 1020); 18 May 2003 03:39:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24311 invoked from network); 18 May 2003 03:39:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 May 2003 03:39:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8BE5D19A8A; Sat, 17 May 2003 14:39:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.185]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0075419980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 17 May 2003 14:38:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-10-145.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.10.145 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 May 2003 18:38:23 -0000 Message-ID: <3EC68F68.8000905@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: factotum References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 14:37:12 -0500 > > >Any docs to explain pcauth vs. pccpu? > No docs needed, really. The only difference is the kernel configuration file. An auth server should take its root from a local drive, helping to solidify its security. Network protocols should be limited only to ones needed for incoming auth requests. Finally, unlike a standard CPU, windowing functionality is generally allowed, in order to help the user administrate and manage accounts, etc. Aside from the above, there really is no difference between an auth server and a cpu server. I always use an old, but stable, machine with a local disk. I skip the windowing capability, however, to minimize CPU/RAM usage. Don (drinkin drinks and lookin at a thing in a /usr/snowfall/bag) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 18 04:22:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 18 04:22:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25077 invoked by uid 1020); 18 May 2003 04:22:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25073 invoked from network); 18 May 2003 04:22:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 May 2003 04:22:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2A09919A92; Sat, 17 May 2003 15:22:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2EECD19A90 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 17 May 2003 15:21:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030516160506.GA5145@lws04.rz.uni-jena.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 15:21:21 -0400 I think the real problem with a free Plan 9 server is latency. We can figure out the system robustness problems, but the network latency is much harder to get around. I'm typing this in my apartment, on a drawterm session over my DSL line to plan9.bell-labs.com. The latency is about 38ms. At this distance drawterm is usable but noticeably sluggish. But 38ms is probably near best case for an open Plan 9 server across the internet. You could use a text connection, but that's just not a faithful experience. VNC is a little better but still leaves something to be desired. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 18 14:18:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 18 14:18:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1968 invoked by uid 1020); 18 May 2003 14:18:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1964 invoked from network); 18 May 2003 14:18:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 May 2003 14:18:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ED86919AB3; Sun, 18 May 2003 01:18:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6E650199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 01:17:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h4I5Dci13185; Sun, 18 May 2003 00:13:40 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: , In-Reply-To: <20030516160506.GA5145@lws04.rz.uni-jena.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 00:13:38 -0500 (CDT) On Fri, 16 May 2003, Martin Kielhorn wrote: > Has there ever been an attempt to provide free accounts > on a Plan 9 network for people curious to "play" with it. http://open-forge.org (this site is going away later in the year due to the poor job market) or, http://einstein.ssz.com/hangar18 We don't provide free shell accounts since this really doesn't make a lot of sense with regard to Plan 9. What we can do is provide a auth server and related resources (ie process pool and community namespaces). We also provide services for developers such as webpages and code management tools (ie CVS). We are in a re-engineering cycle at the moment due to some changes in participants. We expect to have the auth server moved to the SSZ domain sometime during the week of June 16-20. Later in the year the current primary home site, Open Forge, will be going away due to lack of sponsorship. This means that SSZ will return as the primary host of the webpage and services. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 18 22:06:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 18 22:06:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9730 invoked by uid 1020); 18 May 2003 22:06:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9726 invoked from network); 18 May 2003 22:06:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 May 2003 22:06:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DAB2119A28; Sun, 18 May 2003 09:06:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1CB2819AB2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 09:05:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24983 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 09:05:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h4ID5h524391 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 09:05:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305181305.h4ID5h524391@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 18 May 2003 00:13:38 CDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 09:05:43 -0400 > http://einstein.ssz.com/hangar18 > > We don't provide free shell accounts since this really doesn't make a lot > of sense with regard to Plan 9. What we can do is provide a auth server > and related resources (ie process pool and community namespaces). We also > provide services for developers such as webpages and code management tools > (ie CVS). I don't understand what this means; doesn't the ability to start a process on a remote machine (``process pool'') mean you can start a shell on it? - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 18 22:48:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 18 22:48:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10596 invoked by uid 1020); 18 May 2003 22:48:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10592 invoked from network); 18 May 2003 22:48:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 May 2003 22:48:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1989419AEF; Sun, 18 May 2003 09:48:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3812819AEB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 09:47:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h4IDhJL16996; Sun, 18 May 2003 08:43:19 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: , In-Reply-To: <200305181305.h4ID5h524391@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 08:43:19 -0500 (CDT) On Sun, 18 May 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > I don't understand what this means; doesn't the ability to start a > process on a remote machine (``process pool'') mean you can start a > shell on it? Yes, if you want to look at it by the 'process tied to machine' viewpoint. Plan 9 means much more. The concept of 'starting a shell on it' is a rather non-distributed way of thinking about Plan 9 though. An archaic viewpoint if you will. Plan 9 has per process namespace, and there is really nothing that says the namespace that a particular process is running on a particular piece of hardware are shared. In other words the resources for a given shell don't necessarily have to reside on that machine. In other words the process server doesn't have to share any of its kfs resources into the namespace of the process). The namespace doesn't even have to come from a single machine. So, if you've got a process that has it's I/O connected to your machine, and various namespaces transitively mounted from machines other than the process server executing the job, can you really say the shell is running on 'that machine'? I'd say "No". If you have a process server executing a job that spawns multiple processes, Tower of Hanoi or a factorial might be a job that would do for an example, and those processes are running on different machines; can you say that the program runs on 'that machine'? I'd say "No", You're running a 'shell on a machine' and that machine hiccups, with traditional operating systems the only result is to throw an error condition and halt. On Plan 9 it's possible that in cases that if a machine were to die the namespace resources (which we'll assume aren't on the process server native) are saved and the machine that started the process would simply re-init that job on another processer, without the user even knowing about it. Is that running that program 'on a machine'? I'd say "No". There are many other examples I could think of, you will too; eventually. Plan 9 has the unique advantage of being able to create a distributed virtual machine. This means that where the job runs is irrelevant, and where the resources of the namespace exist is irrelevant. Plan 9 is not so much 'where' but 'how to impliment'. To worry about the specific machine is a pretty archaic viewpoint that is not really compatible with understanding what one can get out of Plan 9. Plan 9 is a -distributed- operating system. This means that you have to think of 'process clouds' and many resources clustered together to form a namespace. The fact the namespace is -per process- is what takes it a step above the 'run a shell on a machine' perspective. You have to get past thinking of Plan 9 as a OS 'on a machine' and think of it as a OS -across machines-. Note the plural in that, it's critical to understanding the true power of the OS from the perspective of the user. [1] If you really want to have an OS on -a machine- then Plan 9 will bring you nothing of interest. Stick with traditional operating systems. If you want to join a -community of resources- then look into Plan 9, it will surpise you. [2] Hope that helps clear up your confusion...;) [1] This goes right to the heart of one of my issues with the Plan 9 community here with regard to lack of understanding of 'user' space as compared to looking at everything as a 'developer' space issue. Such is the flaw of having a goal of keeping a technology limited to a niche (ie research OS). [2] I've mentioned this distinction many times in the past, and it amazes me that many long time users of Plan 9 still don't 'get it'. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 18 23:19:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 18 23:19:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11195 invoked by uid 1020); 18 May 2003 23:19:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11191 invoked from network); 18 May 2003 23:19:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 May 2003 23:19:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D47AF19AF0; Sun, 18 May 2003 10:19:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2052319AEE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 10:18:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03128; Sun, 18 May 2003 10:17:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h4IEHf524723; Sun, 18 May 2003 10:17:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305181417.h4IEHf524723@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: hangar18-general@open-forge.org, hell@einstein.ssz.com Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 18 May 2003 08:43:19 CDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 10:17:41 -0400 I know I shouldn't get into this.... > > I don't understand what this means; doesn't the ability to start a > > process on a remote machine (``process pool'') mean you can start a > > shell on it? > > Plan 9 has per process namespace, and there is really nothing that says > the namespace that a particular process is running on a particular piece > of hardware are shared. In other words the resources for a given shell > don't necessarily have to reside on that machine. In other words the > process server doesn't have to share any of its kfs resources into the > namespace of the process). The namespace doesn't even have to come from a > single machine. So, if you've got a process that has it's I/O connected to > your machine, and various namespaces transitively mounted from machines > other than the process server executing the job, can you really say the > shell is running on 'that machine'? > > I'd say "No". Yes. It's executing on that machine. It's effectively the same situation as a program running on a diskless Unix machine with the filesystem served by NFS. So you agree that you will allow someone to run code on your machine, you just won't provide them with a filesystem. So they can run a copy of /bin/rc on your machine if they like. > If you have a process server executing a job that spawns multiple > processes, Tower of Hanoi or a factorial might be a job that would do for > an example, and those processes are running on different machines; can > you say that the program runs on 'that machine'? > > I'd say "No", Yes. What it does, such as starting jobs on other machines, is irrelevant. It itself is still running on that machine. > You're running a 'shell on a machine' and that machine hiccups, with > traditional operating systems the only result is to throw an error > condition and halt. On Plan 9 it's possible that in cases that if a > machine were to die the namespace resources (which we'll assume aren't on > the process server native) are saved and the machine that started the > process would simply re-init that job on another processer, without the > user even knowing about it. Is that running that program 'on a machine'? > > I'd say "No". It's possible, perhaps, but doesn't happen now. At least not without writing code. But it would be possible to write the same code on any number of systems; amoeba comes to mind as an example of a system that already approximates that sort of behavior. But that doesn't change the fact that, yes, the program is running on a machine somewhere. The only thing you're saying is new is that you don't care what machine it's running on. > There are many other examples I could think of, you will too; eventually. I'm sorry, but I think you're confused about basic definitions. What it means for a piece of code to be running on a computer is that it's executing on that computer. Whether you can do clever things behind to scenes to give the illusion of it being transparantly relocatable to another computer is irrelevant. Even then, I'm disappointed that all you're talking about is restarting a program on a different machine. If you were talking about generalizing /proc to replicate process state across multiple machines operating in lockstep in real time, I might start to be kind of impressed. > Plan 9 has the unique advantage of being able to create a distributed > virtual machine. This means that where the job runs is irrelevant, and > where the resources of the namespace exist is irrelevant. Plan 9 is not so > much 'where' but 'how to impliment'. That's not unique. Condor, MOSIX, Amoeba, and other systems implement similar functionality. > To worry about the specific machine is a pretty archaic viewpoint that is > not really compatible with understanding what one can get out of Plan 9. > > Plan 9 is a -distributed- operating system. This means that you have to > think of 'process clouds' and many resources clustered together to form a > namespace. The fact the namespace is -per process- is what takes it a step > above the 'run a shell on a machine' perspective. Again, you're misunderstanding the definition of what it means to run a shell on a machine. > You have to get past thinking of Plan 9 as a OS 'on a machine' and think > of it as a OS -across machines-. Note the plural in that, it's critical to > understanding the true power of the OS from the perspective of the user. > [1] I don't see how the two are mutually exclusive. > If you really want to have an OS on -a machine- then Plan 9 will bring you > nothing of interest. Stick with traditional operating systems. If you want > to join a -community of resources- then look into Plan 9, it will surpise > you. [2] Or Amoeba. > Hope that helps clear up your confusion...;) I see what you're saying, but I think you missed my point. It might help if you reviewed a book on operating systems basics; it's pretty clear you don't have much of a formal background here. I can recommend a titles, if you'd like. > [1] This goes right to the heart of one of my issues with the Plan 9 > community here with regard to lack of understanding of 'user' space as > compared to looking at everything as a 'developer' space issue. Such is > the flaw of having a goal of keeping a technology limited to a niche (ie > research OS). > > [2] I've mentioned this distinction many times in the past, and it amazes > me that many long time users of Plan 9 still don't 'get it'. And how. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 18 23:26:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 18 23:26:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11341 invoked by uid 1020); 18 May 2003 23:26:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11337 invoked from network); 18 May 2003 23:26:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 May 2003 23:26:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1781C19AF3; Sun, 18 May 2003 10:26:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8ED3219AC5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 10:25:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h4IEQNX01772; Sun, 18 May 2003 09:26:23 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: , Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? In-Reply-To: <200305181417.h4IEHf524723@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 09:26:23 -0500 (CDT) On Sun, 18 May 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > I know I shouldn't get into this.... You're such an ass Dan. > Yes. It's executing on that machine. No, only -part of it is 'on that machine'. Your archaic viewpoint is showing. > It's effectively the same situation as a program running on a diskless Unix > machine with the filesystem served by NFS. No, it's not. > So you agree that you will allow someone to run code on your machine, Absolutely, go read the whole point of Hangar 18 at, http://open-forge.org http://einstein.ssz.com/hangar18 What do you think 'distributed processing', 'community', and 'tit for tat' mean? Oh yeah, you don't have a clue. You're a perfect example of what is wrong with the Plan 9 community here. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 18 23:34:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 18 23:34:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11479 invoked by uid 1020); 18 May 2003 23:34:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11475 invoked from network); 18 May 2003 23:34:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 May 2003 23:34:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C0BC319AF9; Sun, 18 May 2003 10:34:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4325719AEB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 10:33:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h4IEalwZ000368 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 08:36:47 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h4IEalHW000364 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 08:36:47 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 08:36:47 -0600 (MDT) On Sun, 18 May 2003, Jim Choate wrote: > You're a perfect example of what is wrong with the Plan 9 community here. > You're a perfect example of what's wrong with the world outside the Plan 9 community. Dan's fine, you're not. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 18 23:40:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 18 23:40:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11573 invoked by uid 1020); 18 May 2003 23:40:02 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11569 invoked from network); 18 May 2003 23:40:01 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 May 2003 23:40:01 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5C01219AFE; Sun, 18 May 2003 10:39:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C02E119AE7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 10:38:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05609 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 10:38:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h4IEcr524912 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 10:38:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305181438.h4IEcr524912@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 18 May 2003 09:26:23 CDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 10:38:53 -0400 > > I know I shouldn't get into this.... > > You're such an ass Dan. ...and this is why. We can't expect anything but an attack after questioning your views. This isn't a particularly good way to advance your argument or start dialogue, Jim. > > Yes. It's executing on that machine. > > No, only -part of it is 'on that machine'. Your archaic viewpoint is > showing. So, what's missing? It's memory image is stored on that machine: all the program text, data, and the stack; the processor state including the PSL and all the machine registers, etc is local. Even the I/O devices it does I/O through are local. The fact that it gets the data it manipulates from someplace else isn't relevant to the fact that it's running on that machine. > > It's effectively the same situation as a program running on a diskless Unix > > machine with the filesystem served by NFS. > > No, it's not. Okay, then. Why not? > > So you agree that you will allow someone to run code on your machine, > > Absolutely, go read the whole point of Hangar 18 at, > > http://open-forge.org > > http://einstein.ssz.com/hangar18 > > What do you think 'distributed processing', 'community', and 'tit for tat' > mean? You cut off the rest of my sentence, which explained what I was getting at. Here's the rest: ...you just won't provide them with a filesystem. So they can run a copy of /bin/rc on your machine if they like. > Oh yeah, you don't have a clue. Wow, insults. That's a great way to advance your viewpoint. > You're a perfect example of what is wrong with the Plan 9 community here. So, Jim, can we expect you at the BoF in San Antonio? Looking forward to meeting you! - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 18 23:44:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 18 23:44:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11636 invoked by uid 1020); 18 May 2003 23:44:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11632 invoked from network); 18 May 2003 23:44:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 May 2003 23:44:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2376D19B01; Sun, 18 May 2003 10:44:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4DD4619AFB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 10:43:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h4IEiKW01978 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 09:44:20 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <200305181438.h4IEcr524912@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 09:44:20 -0500 (CDT) On Sun, 18 May 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > > > I know I shouldn't get into this.... > > > > You're such an ass Dan. > > ...and this is why. We can't expect anything but an attack after > questioning your views. This isn't a particularly good way to advance > your argument or start dialogue, Jim. Pot, kettle, black. > > > Yes. It's executing on that machine. > > > > No, only -part of it is 'on that machine'. Your archaic viewpoint is > > showing. > > So, what's missing? Per process namespace (THE most important distinction) processes running on other processors besides the cpu on the diskless workstation with shared namespaces that are not tied to any of the processors the processes are running on (the second most important distinction), transitive mounts of not only files but hardware (the third most important distinction). "If all you know is a hammer, then everything looks like a nail." -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 00:03:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 00:03:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12014 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 00:03:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12010 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 00:03:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 00:03:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2409E19B0B; Sun, 18 May 2003 11:03:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id F234619A2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 11:02:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 7645 invoked from network); 18 May 2003 15:02:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO proweb.co.uk) (192.168.1.100) by juice.thebigchoice.com with SMTP; 18 May 2003 15:02:21 -0000 Message-ID: <3EC7A07D.7000900@proweb.co.uk> From: matt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? References: <200305181417.h4IEHf524723@augusta.math.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <200305181417.h4IEHf524723@augusta.math.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 16:02:21 +0100 > > >I see what you're saying, but I think you missed my point. It might >help if you reviewed a book on operating systems basics; it's pretty >clear you don't have much of a formal background here. I can recommend >a titles, if you'd like. > > can you recommend them anyway 8) and anyone else while we're on the subject I can't find any decent books at my local bookstores that I can buy and read for the sake of it i.e. not for reference the only book on my current list is "Life With Qmail" and that doesn't sound too exciting m From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 00:16:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 00:16:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12138 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 00:16:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12134 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 00:16:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 00:16:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 67A5A19B11; Sun, 18 May 2003 11:16:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 49EA919AF8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 11:15:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09785 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 11:15:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h4IFFE525072 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 11:15:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305181515.h4IFFE525072@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 18 May 2003 09:44:20 CDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 11:15:14 -0400 > > ...and this is why. We can't expect anything but an attack after > > questioning your views. This isn't a particularly good way to advance > > your argument or start dialogue, Jim. > > Pot, kettle, black. I don't understand. I'm trying to engage in dialogue with you, and all I get back are insults, a condescending attitude, and flames. It's been like this since you showed up on 9fans, as far as I can tell. > > > > Yes. It's executing on that machine. > > > > > > No, only -part of it is 'on that machine'. Your archaic viewpoint is > > > showing. > > > > So, what's missing? You keep cutting off my statements. Here's the rest: It's memory image is stored on that machine: all the program text, data, and the stack; the processor state including the PSL and all the machine registers, etc is local. Even the I/O devices it does I/O through are local. The fact that it gets the data it manipulates from someplace else isn't relevant to the fact that it's running on that machine. Then you go on to say: > Per process namespace (THE most important distinction) Which is part of where it gets the data it manipulates. Again, that's irrelevant to the idea of a program executing on a computer. > processes running on other processors besides the cpu on the diskless > workstation with shared namespaces that are not tied to any of the processors > the processes are running on (the second most important distinction), Same. > transitive mounts of not only files but hardware (the third most important > distinction). Same. > "If all you know is a hammer, then everything looks like a nail." If you want to change the definition of what ``hammer'' means because you're confused about what a hammer is, you're going to be in for a rough time. It's obvious we're talking at cross-purposes here. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 00:28:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 00:28:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12235 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 00:28:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12231 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 00:28:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 00:28:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC59919B14; Sun, 18 May 2003 11:28:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C0D6119B14 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 11:27:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557116-18164>; Sun, 18 May 2003 11:27:44 -0400 Message-ID: <019801c31d52$0607bcc0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200305181417.h4IEHf524723@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 17:27:41 +0200 > I know I shouldn't get into this.... yeah, real warren commission stuff :( From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 00:33:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 00:33:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12294 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 00:33:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12289 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 00:33:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 00:33:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 42ED219B17; Sun, 18 May 2003 11:33:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 87DD919B07 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 11:32:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <212600-21736>; Sun, 18 May 2003 11:32:02 -0400 Message-ID: <01ba01c31d52$a03a3980$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 17:31:59 +0200 From: "Jim Choate" > processes running on other processors besides the cpu on the diskless > workstation with shared namespaces that are not tied to any of the processors > the processes are running on (the second most important distinction), pure MVS ... :( From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 00:37:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 00:37:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12321 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 00:37:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12317 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 00:37:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 00:37:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 64A1419B1D; Sun, 18 May 2003 11:37:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B91A119B1F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 11:36:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12529 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 11:36:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h4IFag525170 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 11:36:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305181536.h4IFag525170@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 18 May 2003 16:02:21 BST." <3EC7A07D.7000900@proweb.co.uk> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 11:36:41 -0400 > >I see what you're saying, but I think you missed my point. It might > >help if you reviewed a book on operating systems basics; it's pretty > >clear you don't have much of a formal background here. I can recommend > >a titles, if you'd like. > > can you recommend them anyway 8) Sure. I think the new edition of Tanenbaum's, ``Modern Operating Systems'' is quite good, as is Avi Silberschatz's, ``Operating Systems Concepts,'' now in it's 6th Edition. Silberschwatz also has a another book, in it's first edition: ``Applied Operating System Concepts'' that is similar in nature to his earlier book, but targeted to a slightly different audience. It's my impression that the former concentrates a little more on theory, while the latter talks about applications of that theory. Either is probably fine if you don't have a lot of background in OS's. Also, there are at least two books that talk about operating system implementation in great detail: Tanenbaum's, ``Operating Systems: Design and Implementation,'' in it's second edition, and John Lions's, ``Lions' Commentary on Unix 6th Edition, with Source Code.'' The former is the famous (infamous?) Minix book; the latter is the infamous (famous?) Lions' Papers, which go through the Unix kernel line by line. Both of these books provide great insight into operating system internals. The Lions book is obviously dated; Tanenbaum updated the Minix book a few years ago. Of course, Nemo's tome on the Plan 9 kernel will give you a lot of insight into Plan 9, in a manner similar to how Lions' papers gave one insight into Unix. Those will get people started. After that, there are a few other decent books, but it's probably more fruitful to go directly to the research literature. > and anyone else while we're on the subject > > I can't find any decent books at my local bookstores that I can buy and > read for the sake of it i.e. not for reference > > the only book on my current list is "Life With Qmail" and that doesn't > sound too exciting Well, I recommend, ``A Farewell to Arms'' and ``Of Mice and Men,'' two of my favorite books. Also, ``We'', if you can get a hold of one of the modern translations is a fantastic read (a pre-cursor to the prototypical Orwellian novel). If you mean computer books.... Don't ask me; computer books put me to sleep. - Dan C. (Though I have managed to get through, ``The Elements of Programming Style,'' ``The Practice of Programming,'' ``Programming Pearls,'' ``The Pragmatic Programmer,'' and a few others. The first three I recommend to anyone serious about programming computers.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 00:49:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 00:49:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12472 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 00:49:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12468 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 00:49:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 00:49:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0A3CA19B00; Sun, 18 May 2003 11:49:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id ADF8719B07 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 11:48:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-10-145.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.10.145 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 May 2003 15:48:16 -0000 Message-ID: <3EC7B8FF.6070306@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? References: <200305181536.h4IFag525170@augusta.math.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 11:46:55 -0500 > > >Well, I recommend, ``A Farewell to Arms'' and ``Of Mice and Men,'' two >of my favorite books. Also, ``We'', if you can get a hold of one of >the modern translations is a fantastic read (a pre-cursor to the >prototypical Orwellian novel). If you mean computer books.... Don't >ask me; computer books put me to sleep. > I recommend anything from Agatha Christie. Especially from the Poirot mysteries. I just can't get enough of that dame :) Don > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 01:27:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 01:27:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12943 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 01:27:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12939 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 01:27:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 01:27:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 465F819AB2; Sun, 18 May 2003 12:27:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A242619B07 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 12:26:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h4IGR7Q02716 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 11:27:07 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? In-Reply-To: <3EC7A07D.7000900@proweb.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 11:27:07 -0500 (CDT) On Sun, 18 May 2003, matt wrote: > >I see what you're saying, but I think you missed my point. It might > >help if you reviewed a book on operating systems basics; it's pretty > >clear you don't have much of a formal background here. I can recommend > >a titles, if you'd like. > can you recommend them anyway 8) > > and anyone else while we're on the subject > > I can't find any decent books at my local bookstores that I can buy and > read for the sake of it i.e. not for reference I keep a list of suggested reading, it's been transfered over to the Hangar 18 site, it does need a little editing: http://einstein.ssz.com/hangar18/links.html I'm very fond of Silberschatz myself (ie Dinosaur Book). -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 01:28:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 01:28:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12961 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 01:28:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12957 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 01:28:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 01:28:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0ED5519B0F; Sun, 18 May 2003 12:28:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 33BDA19AE7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 12:27:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h4IGSVY02725 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 11:28:31 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? In-Reply-To: <200305181515.h4IFFE525072@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 11:28:31 -0500 (CDT) On Sun, 18 May 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > > > ...and this is why. We can't expect anything but an attack after > > > questioning your views. This isn't a particularly good way to advance > > > your argument or start dialogue, Jim. > > > > Pot, kettle, black. > > I don't understand. I'm trying to engage in dialogue with you, No Dan you are most assuredly not. Go back and read the very first sentence of your initial response. At no point have you been anywhere near your claimed goals. Try not to gag on your own hubris. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 01:30:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 01:30:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12979 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 01:30:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12975 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 01:30:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 01:30:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E495A19B1E; Sun, 18 May 2003 12:30:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3F2AA19B1F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 12:29:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h4IGTvX02734 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 11:29:57 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <01ba01c31d52$a03a3980$e3944251@insultant.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 11:29:57 -0500 (CDT) On Sun, 18 May 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > From: "Jim Choate" > > processes running on other processors besides the cpu on the diskless > > workstation with shared namespaces that are not tied to any of the processors > > the processes are running on (the second most important distinction), > > pure MVS ... :( Strawman. I'm not claiming -any- of this is new or unique in and of itself. The collection is. That is what makes Plan 9 unique. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 01:46:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 01:46:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13215 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 01:46:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13211 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 01:46:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 01:46:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E51BD19AE7; Sun, 18 May 2003 12:46:19 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2201F19AE7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 12:45:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <212646-21734>; Sun, 18 May 2003 12:45:15 -0400 Message-ID: <024201c31d5c$da228d00$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200305181536.h4IFag525170@augusta.math.psu.edu> <3EC7B8FF.6070306@ameritech.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 18:45:12 +0200 err, Novel With Cocaine? Bush "Still Likes Tasty Things" While President Bush was in Russia, he enjoyed some candy. This report also claims that "before coming to Russia Bush read Dostoyevsky's novel Crime and Punishment in order to get a better understanding of the Russian soul." I would have recommended he read M. Agayev's Novel with Cocaine instead. http://www.boss-tweed.com/2002_05_01_archives.html#77055291 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 03:35:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 03:35:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14098 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 03:35:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14094 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 03:35:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 03:35:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DF3CF19AF1; Sun, 18 May 2003 14:35:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1040B19988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 14:34:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03715 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 14:34:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h4IIYw526029 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 14:34:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305181834.h4IIYw526029@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 18 May 2003 11:28:31 CDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 14:34:58 -0400 > > I don't understand. I'm trying to engage in dialogue with you, > > No Dan you are most assuredly not. I just think you can't answer my questions. - Dan C. (Oh, what the hell, I might as well tell the truth: You're right. I'm part of the vast underground conspiracy to try and distract you from your true destiny: The liberation of the human race from the oppressive yoke of ignorance. Only you, with Plan 9 by your side, can do it. You are...The One. The prophecy has foretold all, and it's useless to deny it any longer. We're at the dawning of a new era, one in which all the classical definitions of computer science will be rewritten to conform to Jim's grand vision. I must go now; they will be after me for revealing The Truth. Don't listen if Scott Schwartz or anyone from Bell Labs posts ordering me to stop: they're really in on it, too. Goodbye, Jim, you won't hear from me again as I'll be caught and reprogrammed. Good luck! Remember that I was truly your faithful servent after the apocolyptic end which is coming, that only you can bring about!) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 03:43:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 03:43:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14151 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 03:43:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14147 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 03:43:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 03:43:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A0E3C19B1C; Sun, 18 May 2003 14:43:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3B8E519988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 14:42:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04635 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 14:42:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h4IIgg526085 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 14:42:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305181842.h4IIgg526085@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: Reading lists (was: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts?) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 18 May 2003 18:45:12 +0200." <024201c31d5c$da228d00$e3944251@insultant.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 14:42:42 -0400 While we're on the subject of reading lists, I don't normally talk about things like this, but I know Boyd will appreciate the following book. If you haven't read it, can find a copy, and are interested in such things, I highly recommend ``The Walking Dead: A Marine's Story of Vietnam.'' It's one of the most accurate descriptions of what it's like to be a Marine that I've ever read. S/f, - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 04:13:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 04:13:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14484 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 04:13:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14480 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 04:13:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 04:13:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B5A3219B26; Sun, 18 May 2003 15:13:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0498919B19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 15:12:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557661-18166>; Sun, 18 May 2003 15:11:47 -0400 Message-ID: <000f01c31d71$52e42820$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200305181842.h4IIgg526085@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: Reading lists (was: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 21:11:43 +0200 i see your ``The Walking Dead: A Marine's Story of Vietnam.'' and raise you "The Scars of War" written by an ex SBS guy, not those sissies in the SAS. Hugh McManners, The Scars of War (London: Harper Collins, 1994). truly superb. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 04:19:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 04:19:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14563 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 04:19:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14559 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 04:19:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 04:19:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9E52519B19; Sun, 18 May 2003 15:19:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0FB5919A1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 15:18:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <212923-21738>; Sun, 18 May 2003 15:17:41 -0400 Message-ID: <004a01c31d72$268a9740$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200305181834.h4IIYw526029@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 21:17:39 +0200 hanger 18? err, area 51 ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 04:23:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 04:23:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14655 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 04:23:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14651 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 04:23:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 04:23:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1A81819B2B; Sun, 18 May 2003 15:23:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 154C019A1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 15:22:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557191-18163>; Sun, 18 May 2003 15:21:11 -0400 Message-ID: <007801c31d72$a2741660$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200305181417.h4IEHf524723@augusta.math.psu.edu> <3EC7A07D.7000900@proweb.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 21:21:07 +0200 > "Life With Qmail" oxymoron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 04:26:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 04:26:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14700 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 04:26:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14696 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 04:26:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 04:26:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB9B519B2D; Sun, 18 May 2003 15:26:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from thefrayedknot.armory.com (thefrayedknot.armory.com [192.122.209.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0D60F19B2E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 15:25:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 1187 invoked by uid 1000); 18 May 2003 19:25:42 -0000 From: Andrew To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? Message-ID: <20030518192542.GA1174@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200305181417.h4IEHf524723@augusta.math.psu.edu> <3EC7A07D.7000900@proweb.co.uk> <007801c31d72$a2741660$e3944251@insultant.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <007801c31d72$a2741660$e3944251@insultant.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 12:25:42 -0700 On Sun, May 18, 2003 at 09:21:07PM +0200, boyd, rounin wrote: > > "Life With Qmail" > > oxymoron > maybe Im going to look stupid for asking this, but whats wrong with qmail? Sure its a unix tool, and djb isnt always the nicest guy in the world, but it seems to work pretty darn well, compared with say...sendmail. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 04:36:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 04:36:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14806 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 04:36:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14802 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 04:36:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 04:36:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7A72D19B33; Sun, 18 May 2003 15:36:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E5D1B19B23 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 15:35:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557870-18152>; Sun, 18 May 2003 15:35:24 -0400 Message-ID: <008c01c31d74$9f98a9e0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200305181417.h4IEHf524723@augusta.math.psu.edu> <3EC7A07D.7000900@proweb.co.uk> <007801c31d72$a2741660$e3944251@insultant.net> <20030518192542.GA1174@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 21:35:21 +0200 > maybe Im going to look stupid for asking this, but whats wrong with > qmail? 4 chars ... SMTP -- Simple Mail Transfer Protocol no files, no 8 bit chars, nothing but 7 bit ASCII. then we get the 150 pages of the 4 MINE (sic) rfcs and we know who the guilty are and why and it is no longer SIMPLE. POP ... Post Office Protocol -- simple IMAP ... DISASTER, it tries to be a file server but it's only dealing with mail. FTP ... File Transfer Protocol QED From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 04:39:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 04:39:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14849 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 04:39:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14845 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 04:39:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 04:39:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3981A19B2E; Sun, 18 May 2003 15:39:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E14B6199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 15:38:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11392 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 15:38:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h4IJcw526342 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 15:38:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305181938.h4IJcw526342@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 18 May 2003 12:25:42 PDT." <20030518192542.GA1174@thefrayedknot.armory.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 15:38:58 -0400 > > oxymoron > > maybe Im going to look stupid for asking this, but whats wrong with > qmail? Sure its a unix tool, and djb isnt always the nicest guy in the > world, but it seems to work pretty darn well, compared with > say...sendmail. Qmail is okay. The biggest single problem with it is that DJB is firmly convinced that the thing to do is avoid latency, because SMTP is slow. So, he opens up many TCP connections to a single remote server at once. The result is that the remote server can get severely overloaded, which makes it defer delivery. You end up with this happening in a slowly attenuating cycle, which can actually increase latency. Maybe this has been fixed with a qmail patch; I don't know. Postfix solves this problem by using a slow-start style algorithm to find the point at which it's transfering the most mail to a remote site in parallel, without overloading it. You trade a little bit of increased latency at the beginning for greater efficiency overall. But Postfix is getting kind of big and bloated, itself. :-( - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 04:41:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 04:41:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14922 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 04:41:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14918 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 04:41:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 04:41:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ECBB41998C; Sun, 18 May 2003 15:41:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1D63219B35 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 15:40:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557405-18165>; Sun, 18 May 2003 15:40:12 -0400 Message-ID: <009801c31d75$4a6c5a60$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200305181417.h4IEHf524723@augusta.math.psu.edu> <3EC7A07D.7000900@proweb.co.uk> <007801c31d72$a2741660$e3944251@insultant.net> <20030518192542.GA1174@thefrayedknot.armory.com> <008c01c31d74$9f98a9e0$e3944251@insultant.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 21:40:07 +0200 call me a luddite and i'll be off straight to hell with dan and we'll be smiling ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 04:45:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 04:45:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14977 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 04:45:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14973 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 04:45:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 04:45:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 041E619B3C; Sun, 18 May 2003 15:45:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E07BD19B30 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 15:44:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <212950-21728>; Sun, 18 May 2003 15:44:42 -0400 Message-ID: <00a401c31d75$ec491ee0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200305181938.h4IJcw526342@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 21:44:40 +0200 > The biggest single problem with it is that DJB QED From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 04:49:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 04:49:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15036 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 04:49:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15032 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 04:49:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 04:49:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5603719B39; Sun, 18 May 2003 15:49:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 94CFC19B0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 15:48:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <212861-21737>; Sun, 18 May 2003 15:47:21 -0400 Message-ID: <00ad01c31d76$4a577d60$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200305181417.h4IEHf524723@augusta.math.psu.edu> <3EC7A07D.7000900@proweb.co.uk> <007801c31d72$a2741660$e3944251@insultant.net> <20030518192542.GA1174@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00AA_01C31D87.0D493D80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 21:47:17 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00AA_01C31D87.0D493D80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit limbo meets POP ... ------=_NextPart_000_00AA_01C31D87.0D493D80 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="pop.bundle" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pop.bundle" # To unbundle, run this file=0A= echo pop.b=0A= sed 's/.//' >pop.b <<'//GO.SYSIN DD pop.b'=0A= -# (C) Copyright Boyd Roberts, Bruce Ellis, November 1998=0A= -=0A= -implement Pop;=0A= -=0A= -include "sys.m";=0A= -include "bufio.m";=0A= -include "string.m";=0A= -include "pop.m";=0A= -=0A= -sys: Sys;=0A= -bufio: Bufio;=0A= -str: String;=0A= -=0A= -Iobuf: import bufio;=0A= -=0A= -stderr: ref Sys->FD;=0A= -rx, tx: ref Iobuf;=0A= -=0A= -debug: con 0;=0A= -=0A= -init(): string=0A= -{=0A= - sys =3D load Sys Sys->PATH;=0A= - if (sys =3D=3D nil)=0A= - return "load $Sys failed";=0A= - stderr =3D sys->fildes(2);=0A= - bufio =3D load Bufio Bufio->PATH;=0A= - if (bufio =3D=3D nil)=0A= - return sys->sprint("could not load %s: %r", Bufio->PATH);=0A= - str =3D load String String->PATH;=0A= - if (str =3D=3D nil)=0A= - return sys->sprint("could not load %s: %r", String->PATH);=0A= - return nil;=0A= -}=0A= -=0A= -fetch(user, host, password, dir: string, del: int): (string, big)=0A= -{=0A= - dest :=3D sys->sprint("tcp!%s!%d", host, Pop->POP3);=0A= - (ok, C) :=3D sys->dial(dest, nil);=0A= - if (ok < 0)=0A= - return (sys->sprint("dial '%s' failed: %r", dest), big 0);=0A= -=0A= - rx =3D bufio->fopen(C.dfd, Sys->OREAD);=0A= - if (rx =3D=3D nil)=0A= - return (sys->sprint("bufio read open '%s' failed: %r", dest), big 0);=0A= - tx =3D bufio->fopen(C.dfd, Sys->OWRITE);=0A= - if (tx =3D=3D nil)=0A= - return (sys->sprint("bufio write open '%s' failed: %r", dest), big 0);=0A= -=0A= - (e, s) :=3D reply(0);=0A= - case e {=0A= - ERR =3D>=0A= - return(s, big 0);=0A= - OK =3D>=0A= - if (debug)=0A= - sys->print("%s\n", s);=0A= - }=0A= - =0A= - (e, s) =3D request(CMD_USER, user);=0A= - case e {=0A= - ERR =3D>=0A= - return(s, big 0);=0A= - OK =3D>=0A= - if (debug)=0A= - sys->print("%s\n", s);=0A= - }=0A= -=0A= - (e, s) =3D request(CMD_PASS, password);=0A= - case e {=0A= - ERR =3D>=0A= - return(s, big 0);=0A= - OK =3D>=0A= - if (debug)=0A= - sys->print("%s\n", s);=0A= - }=0A= -=0A= - (e, s) =3D request(CMD_STAT, nil);=0A= - case e {=0A= - ERR =3D>=0A= - return(s, big 0);=0A= - OK =3D>=0A= - if (debug)=0A= - sys->print("%s\n", s);=0A= - }=0A= -=0A= - messages :=3D big 0;=0A= - size :=3D big 0;=0A= - (n, l) :=3D sys->tokenize(s, " ");=0A= - case n {=0A= - 1 =3D>=0A= - sys->print("%d message%s for '%s@%s', maildrop size unknown.\n", int = messages, plural(messages), user, host);=0A= - messages =3D big hd l;=0A= -=0A= - 2 =3D>=0A= - messages =3D big hd l;=0A= - size =3D big hd tl l;=0A= -=0A= - * =3D>=0A= - return (sys->sprint("unknown number of messages for '%s@%s'.\n", = user, host), big 0);=0A= - }=0A= -=0A= - fetched: list of string;=0A= - err :=3D "";=0A= -getem:=0A= - for (i :=3D big 1; i <=3D messages; i++) {=0A= - (e, s) =3D request(CMD_RETR, string i);=0A= - case e {=0A= - ERR =3D>=0A= - return(s, big 0);=0A= - OK =3D>=0A= - if (debug)=0A= - sys->print("%s\n", s);=0A= - }=0A= - f :=3D filename(dir, string i);=0A= - fd :=3D sys->create(f, Sys->OWRITE, 0);=0A= - if (fd =3D=3D nil) {=0A= - err =3D sys->sprint("could not create '%s'", f);=0A= - break;=0A= - }=0A= -=0A= - for (;;) {=0A= - (e, s) =3D reply(1);=0A= - case e {=0A= - ERR =3D>=0A= - err =3D s;=0A= - break getem;=0A= - DATA =3D>=0A= - if (debug)=0A= - sys->print("%s\n", s);=0A= - if (sys->fprint(fd, "%s\n", s) < 0) {=0A= - err =3D sys->sprint("could not write '%s': %r", f);=0A= - sys->remove(f);=0A= - break getem;=0A= - }=0A= -=0A= - END =3D>=0A= - s =3D readable(f, fd);=0A= - if (s !=3D nil)=0A= - sys->fprint(stderr, "warning: %s\n", s);=0A= - fd =3D nil;=0A= - fetched =3D string i :: fetched;=0A= - continue getem;=0A= - }=0A= - }=0A= - }=0A= -=0A= - messages =3D big 0;=0A= -=0A= - if (del)=0A= - {=0A= - while (fetched !=3D nil)=0A= - {=0A= - s =3D hd fetched;=0A= - fetched =3D tl fetched;=0A= - =0A= - (e, s) =3D request(CMD_DELE, s);=0A= - case e {=0A= - ERR =3D>=0A= - sys->remove(filename(dir, s));=0A= - OK =3D>=0A= - messages++;=0A= - }=0A= - }=0A= - }=0A= -=0A= - (e, s) =3D request(CMD_QUIT, nil);=0A= - if (e !=3D OK && err =3D=3D nil) {=0A= - if (messages !=3D big 0)=0A= - err =3D sys->sprint("%bd message%s: ", messages, plural(messages));=0A= - err =3D sys->sprint("%swarning: %s", err, s);=0A= - }=0A= -=0A= - return (err, messages);=0A= -}=0A= -=0A= -reply(data: int): (int, string)=0A= -{=0A= - r :=3D rx.gets('\n');=0A= - if (r =3D=3D nil)=0A= - return (ERR, sys->sprint("pop server read failed: %r"));=0A= - (n, l) :=3D sys->tokenize(r, "\r\n");=0A= - if (n !=3D 1) {=0A= - if (n =3D=3D 0 && data)=0A= - return (DATA, nil);=0A= - return (ERR, "reply missing CRLF");=0A= - }=0A= - line :=3D hd l;=0A= - if (debug)=0A= - sys->print("<-- %s\n", line);=0A= -=0A= - if (data) {=0A= - if (line =3D=3D REP_TCHAR)=0A= - return (END, nil);=0A= - return (DATA, line);=0A= - }=0A= -=0A= - (cmd, rest) :=3D str->splitl(line, " ");=0A= - rest =3D rest[1:];=0A= - case cmd {=0A= - REP_OK =3D>=0A= - return (OK, rest);=0A= - REP_ERR =3D>=0A= - return (ERR, rest);=0A= - * =3D>=0A= - return (ERR, "protocol error");=0A= - }=0A= -}=0A= -=0A= -request(cmd, arg: string): (int, string)=0A= -{=0A= - s :=3D cmd;=0A= - if (arg !=3D nil)=0A= - s +=3D " " + arg;=0A= - if (debug)=0A= - sys->print("--> %s\n", s);=0A= - if (tx.puts(s + "\r\n") < 0 || tx.flush() < 0)=0A= - return (ERR, sys->sprint("pop server write failed: %r"));=0A= - return reply(0);=0A= -}=0A= -=0A= -plural(n: big): string=0A= -{=0A= - if (n =3D=3D big 1)=0A= - return nil;=0A= -=0A= - return "s";=0A= -}=0A= -=0A= -readable(f: string, fd: ref Sys->FD): string=0A= -{=0A= - (ok, d) :=3D sys->fstat(fd);=0A= - if (ok < 0)=0A= - return sys->sprint("could not fstat '%s': %r", f);=0A= -=0A= - d.mode |=3D 8r600;=0A= - if (sys->wstat(f, d) < 0)=0A= - return sys->sprint("could not wstat '%s': %r", f);=0A= -=0A= - return nil;=0A= -}=0A= -=0A= -filename(dir, file: string): string=0A= -{=0A= - return dir + "/" + file;=0A= -}=0A= //GO.SYSIN DD pop.b=0A= echo pop.m=0A= sed 's/.//' >pop.m <<'//GO.SYSIN DD pop.m'=0A= -# (C) Copyright Boyd Roberts, Bruce Ellis, November 1998=0A= -=0A= -Pop: module=0A= -{=0A= - PATH: con "pop.dis";=0A= - POP3: con 110;=0A= - OK: con 0;=0A= - END: con 1;=0A= - DATA: con 2;=0A= - ERR: con -1;=0A= -=0A= - CMD_DELE: con "DELE";=0A= - CMD_LAST: con "LAST";=0A= - CMD_NOOP: con "NOOP";=0A= - CMD_PASS: con "PASS";=0A= - CMD_QUIT: con "QUIT";=0A= - CMD_RETR: con "RETR";=0A= - CMD_RSET: con "RSET";=0A= - CMD_STAT: con "STAT";=0A= - CMD_USER: con "USER";=0A= -=0A= - REP_OK: con "+OK";=0A= - REP_ERR: con "-ERR";=0A= - REP_TCHAR: con ".";=0A= -=0A= - init: fn(): string;=0A= - fetch: fn(user, host, password, dir: string, del: int): (string, big);=0A= - plural: fn(n: big): string;=0A= -};=0A= //GO.SYSIN DD pop.m=0A= echo test.b=0A= sed 's/.//' >test.b <<'//GO.SYSIN DD test.b'=0A= -# (C) Copyright Boyd Roberts, Bruce Ellis, November 1998=0A= -=0A= -implement Test;=0A= -=0A= -include "sys.m";=0A= -include "draw.m";=0A= -include "pop.m";=0A= -=0A= -sys: Sys;=0A= -pop: Pop;=0A= -=0A= -stderr: ref Sys->FD;=0A= -=0A= -Test: module=0A= -{=0A= - init: fn(nil: ref Draw->Context, nil: list of string);=0A= -};=0A= -=0A= -init(nil: ref Draw->Context, nil: list of string)=0A= -{=0A= - sys =3D load Sys Sys->PATH;=0A= - stderr =3D sys->fildes(2);=0A= - pop =3D load Pop Pop->PATH;=0A= - if (pop =3D=3D nil)=0A= - exits(sys->sprint("could not load %s: %r\n", Pop->PATH));=0A= - s :=3D pop->init();=0A= - if (s !=3D nil)=0A= - exits(s);=0A= - n: big;=0A= - (s, n) =3D pop->fetch("user", "host", "password", ".", 0);=0A= - if (s !=3D nil)=0A= - exits(s);=0A= - if (n !=3D big 0)=0A= - sys->print("%bd message%s\n", n, pop->plural(n));=0A= -}=0A= -=0A= -exits(s: string)=0A= -{=0A= - sys->raise("fail: " + s);=0A= -}=0A= //GO.SYSIN DD test.b=0A= ------=_NextPart_000_00AA_01C31D87.0D493D80-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 04:50:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 04:50:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15051 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 04:50:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15047 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 04:50:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 04:50:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7F86019B46; Sun, 18 May 2003 15:50:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from thefrayedknot.armory.com (thefrayedknot.armory.com [192.122.209.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 249AF19B3D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 15:49:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 1273 invoked by uid 1000); 18 May 2003 19:49:20 -0000 From: Andrew To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? Message-ID: <20030518194920.GA1242@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200305181417.h4IEHf524723@augusta.math.psu.edu> <3EC7A07D.7000900@proweb.co.uk> <007801c31d72$a2741660$e3944251@insultant.net> <20030518192542.GA1174@thefrayedknot.armory.com> <008c01c31d74$9f98a9e0$e3944251@insultant.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <008c01c31d74$9f98a9e0$e3944251@insultant.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 12:49:20 -0700 well, thats email in general, as Dan said, qmail is fine, modulo a few issues. but you're absolutly right, email is a disaster...i read rfc821 (or was it 822) the other day...all i have to say is: wtf!? although i dont think qmail itself is bad, its fast (regardless of the multiple tcp delivery thing), its secure (theres an idea!), and its pretty simple no bells and whistles and not much bloat, theres not much more one could ask for given the underlying circumstances. thanks for the input though ;) Andrew On Sun, May 18, 2003 at 09:35:21PM +0200, boyd, rounin wrote: > > maybe Im going to look stupid for asking this, but whats wrong with > > qmail? > > 4 chars ... SMTP -- Simple Mail Transfer Protocol > > no files, no 8 bit chars, nothing but 7 bit ASCII. > > then we get the 150 pages of the 4 MINE (sic) rfcs and we > know who the guilty are and why and it is no longer SIMPLE. > > POP ... Post Office Protocol -- simple > > IMAP ... DISASTER, it tries to be a file server but it's only dealing with mail. > > FTP ... File Transfer Protocol > > QED > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 04:56:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 04:56:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15173 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 04:56:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15169 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 04:56:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 04:56:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4B11919B37; Sun, 18 May 2003 15:56:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4BA5D19B3B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 15:55:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <212833-21730>; Sun, 18 May 2003 15:55:31 -0400 Message-ID: <00bb01c31d77$6fa369c0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200305181417.h4IEHf524723@augusta.math.psu.edu> <3EC7A07D.7000900@proweb.co.uk> <007801c31d72$a2741660$e3944251@insultant.net> <20030518192542.GA1174@thefrayedknot.armory.com> <008c01c31d74$9f98a9e0$e3944251@insultant.net> <20030518194920.GA1242@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 21:55:29 +0200 > rfc821 (or was it 822) the other day...all i have to say is: wtf!? 822 ... an 'interesting' read ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 05:00:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 05:00:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15213 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 05:00:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15209 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 05:00:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 05:00:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 906CF19B54; Sun, 18 May 2003 16:00:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5DE3D19B3B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 15:59:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557834-18170>; Sun, 18 May 2003 15:59:42 -0400 Message-ID: <00fa01c31d78$04464160$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200305181417.h4IEHf524723@augusta.math.psu.edu> <3EC7A07D.7000900@proweb.co.uk> <007801c31d72$a2741660$e3944251@insultant.net> <20030518192542.GA1174@thefrayedknot.armory.com> <008c01c31d74$9f98a9e0$e3944251@insultant.net> <20030518194920.GA1242@thefrayedknot.armory.com> <00bb01c31d77$6fa369c0$e3944251@insultant.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 21:59:39 +0200 > rfc821 (or was it 822) the other day...all i have to say is: wtf!? would you like the yacc address parser? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 06:50:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 06:50:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16782 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 06:50:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16778 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 06:50:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 06:50:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5770619A6E; Sun, 18 May 2003 17:50:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 367CE19AFF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 17:49:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26959 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 17:49:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h4ILn5526899 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 17:49:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305182149.h4ILn5526899@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 18 May 2003 21:59:39 +0200." <00fa01c31d78$04464160$e3944251@insultant.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 17:49:05 -0400 > > rfc821 (or was it 822) the other day...all i have to say is: wtf!? > > would you like the yacc address parser? Can yacc even handle 822? I didn't think the subset of the grammar for the Received: headers was in LALR(1). - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 06:58:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 06:58:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16843 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 06:58:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16839 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 06:58:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 06:58:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B4E2519A1C; Sun, 18 May 2003 17:58:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DF44D19A1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 17:57:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557235-18170>; Sun, 18 May 2003 17:57:15 -0400 Message-ID: <026801c31d88$7013a800$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200305182149.h4ILn5526899@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 23:57:11 +0200 > Can yacc even handle 822? yes and no. the addresses yes, but the Received: headers are a context sensitive grammar -- a nasty piece of work, but i have a plan; no more passive anti-spam -- it's time for active anti-spam. code it in limbo and complain to the sender and all the hosts it passed through. that should shut 'em down :) it's tricky, but with limbo it can't be _that_ hard -- err, oops, i just forgot i'm one of those roswell conspiritors ... btw: repo is crudely re-hosted and when i sam it into shape i'll update the wiki, as is insultant.net From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 07:22:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 07:22:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17154 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 07:22:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17150 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 07:22:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 07:22:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4470C19AEE; Sun, 18 May 2003 18:22:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6062119981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 18:21:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557489-18164>; Sun, 18 May 2003 18:20:25 -0400 Message-ID: <029001c31d8b$ad782e20$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200305182149.h4ILn5526899@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 00:20:23 +0200 > Can yacc even handle 822? i've found a version, but it's a little large to post to the list. i could hang it off insultant.net and post the URL. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 07:33:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 07:33:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17245 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 07:33:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17241 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 07:33:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 07:33:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 393DB19AFF; Sun, 18 May 2003 18:33:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8961F19AC9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 18:32:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <212690-21726>; Sun, 18 May 2003 18:32:11 -0400 Message-ID: <029c01c31d8d$5251e980$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200305182149.h4ILn5526899@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [9fans] RFC822 & yacc Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 00:32:09 +0200 it's at: http://www.insultant.net/repo/822yacc.txt From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 07:34:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 07:34:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17263 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 07:34:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17259 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 07:34:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 07:34:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 965FD19B05; Sun, 18 May 2003 18:34:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 6565019A98 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 18:33:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 8236 invoked by uid 991); 18 May 2003 22:33:30 -0000 Message-ID: <20030518223330.8235.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? In-Reply-To: Message from "boyd, rounin" of "Sun, 18 May 2003 23:57:11 +0200." <026801c31d88$7013a800$e3944251@insultant.net> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 18:33:30 -0400 Boyd writes: | passive anti-spam -- it's time for active anti-spam. code it in limbo | and complain to the sender and all the hosts it passed through. Be careful---standard spammer practice is to put forged Received lines on the junk they send. Same deal with From and envelope sender. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 07:40:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 07:40:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17319 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 07:40:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17315 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 07:40:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 07:40:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D126C19AFA; Sun, 18 May 2003 18:40:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6CEAD19981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 18:39:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <212738-21736>; Sun, 18 May 2003 18:39:28 -0400 Message-ID: <02ae01c31d8e$55707220$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030518223330.8235.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 00:39:23 +0200 > Be careful---standard spammer practice is to put forged Received lines > on the junk they send. Same deal with From and envelope sender. nope, dws killed a lotta spammers back in '96/'97 and it was low tech: http://www.insultant.net/fr.inter.net/code/dws.html an rc script in fact. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 07:45:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 07:45:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17343 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 07:45:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17339 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 07:45:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 07:45:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 02C1A19B23; Sun, 18 May 2003 18:45:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0482919AE3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 18:44:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <212651-21735>; Sun, 18 May 2003 18:44:21 -0400 Message-ID: <02bc01c31d8f$04d1e820$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030518223330.8235.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 00:44:18 +0200 > Be careful---standard spammer practice is to put forged Received lines > on the junk they send. Same deal with From and envelope sender. anyway, complaining to forged lines will just get the spammer into more grief, not less. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 07:52:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 07:52:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17407 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 07:52:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17403 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 07:52:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 07:52:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE79119B32; Sun, 18 May 2003 18:52:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.184]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 483F619B08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 18:51:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-10-145.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.10.145 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 May 2003 22:51:47 -0000 Message-ID: <3EC81C4E.9090501@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? References: <20030518223330.8235.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> <02bc01c31d8f$04d1e820$e3944251@insultant.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 18:50:38 -0500 > > >anyway, complaining to forged lines will just get the spammer into more grief, >not less. > How will that work if noone knows the real sender and virii bots are sending the messages. If you can't prove who is behind the email, there is noone to legally target. Even if you can prove a party probably sent a given spam, you still have the burden of proving they were at the console that sent the original message. That can't be done with the net bot movements and other, older, forms of spamming. Don > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 07:56:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 07:56:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17495 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 07:56:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17491 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 07:56:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 07:56:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D200619B30; Sun, 18 May 2003 18:56:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2E28719B0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 18:55:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557251-18166>; Sun, 18 May 2003 18:55:23 -0400 Message-ID: <02ce01c31d90$90213f60$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030518223330.8235.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> <02bc01c31d8f$04d1e820$e3944251@insultant.net> <3EC81C4E.9090501@ameritech.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 00:55:21 +0200 ok, i admit -- i know nothing about active spam killing. end of discussion. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 08:14:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 08:14:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17746 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 08:14:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17742 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 08:14:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 08:14:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6046E19B38; Sun, 18 May 2003 19:14:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3F20C19B0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 19:13:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 8396 invoked by uid 991); 18 May 2003 23:13:10 -0000 Message-ID: <20030518231310.8395.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? In-Reply-To: Message from "boyd, rounin" of "Mon, 19 May 2003 00:44:18 +0200." <02bc01c31d8f$04d1e820$e3944251@insultant.net> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 19:13:09 -0400 | anyway, complaining to forged lines will just get the spammer into more grief, | not less. On the contrary. Spammers have put my address on forged headers, and the double bounces and direct complaints that I got did absolutely nothing at all to discommode the spammers. Please don't also add forged Received lines to the collatoral damage problem. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 08:28:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 08:28:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18004 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 08:28:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18000 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 08:28:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 08:28:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9125119B0D; Sun, 18 May 2003 19:28:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C62C19AC9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 19:27:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h4INSh806608; Sun, 18 May 2003 18:28:43 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: In-Reply-To: <3EC68F68.8000905@ameritech.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Hangar 18 Weekly Social - May 22, 2003 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 18:28:42 -0500 (CDT) Asymmetric Clustering... Distributed Name Space... Global Sign-on... Guerrilla Networking... Open Source Technology... Do these words make your heart beat faster and your breath go shallow? If so then perhaps you should become involved with Hangar 18. We are a tit-for-tat group of computer hobbyist of a wide range of skills intent on building the next computing infra-structure using Open Source technology. We don't focus on any one form of technology but instead focus on real world applications in grid or large scale distributed computing. Time: May 22, 2003 Every Thursday, excluding national holidays 7:00 - 9:00 pm (or later) http://open-forge.org Location: We'll be meeting this week at the Austin Robot Group again. If you'd like to come then please contact the Robot Group for directions. http://robotgroup.net The location varies from week to week so be sure to check with an active Hangar 18 member (or join the mailing list!) for more information. Identification: We'll be the group with the Plan 9 OS box on the table...;) ps Rob and I had lunch today at the Filling Station and they have ethernet and possibly wireless (we saw the antenna but nobody there knew where it went ;) for us to access. So, we'll probably begin to include socials at this location as well. pss With regard to Buffalo Billiards, we're looking at having the social sometime the first half of June. Any objections? -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 09:02:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 09:02:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18744 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 09:02:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18740 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 09:02:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 09:02:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5647119B40; Sun, 18 May 2003 20:02:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.184]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 39ECC19AC9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 20:01:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-10-145.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.10.145 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2003 00:01:46 -0000 Message-ID: <3EC82CB4.2030301@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Hangar 18 Weekly Social - May 22, 2003 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 20:00:36 -0500 > > >We are >a tit-for-tat group of computer hobbyist of a wide range of skills >intent on building the next computing infra-structure using Open Source >technology. > I gotta know... what is a "tit-for-tat" computer group. Not to sound potentially condescending, I really want to know. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 09:10:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 09:10:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19047 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 09:10:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19042 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 09:10:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 09:10:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DAA4E19B4C; Sun, 18 May 2003 20:10:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 77B0F19B41 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 20:09:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <212676-21728>; Sun, 18 May 2003 20:08:12 -0400 Message-ID: <032d01c31d9a$bc27cd40$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3EC82CB4.2030301@ameritech.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] Hangar 18 Weekly Social - May 22, 2003 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 02:08:10 +0200 > I gotta know... what is a "tit-for-tat" computer group. sounds like they'd like the former but never deliver the latter ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 09:37:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 09:37:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20398 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 09:37:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20394 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 09:37:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 09:37:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F0AD019B02; Sun, 18 May 2003 20:37:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA12619B57 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 20:36:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h4J0at907296; Sun, 18 May 2003 19:36:55 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: , In-Reply-To: <3EC82CB4.2030301@ameritech.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] What is TFT? (was: Hangar 18 Weekly Social - May 22, 2003) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 19:36:55 -0500 (CDT) On Sun, 18 May 2003, northern snowfall wrote: > >We are > >a tit-for-tat group of computer hobbyist of a wide range of skills > >intent on building the next computing infra-structure using Open Source > >technology. > > > I gotta know... what is a "tit-for-tat" computer group. Not to > sound potentially condescending, I really want to know. Tit For Tat (TFT) is a strategy from game theory. It is considered one of the strongest approaches to resolving situations where two or more parties must decide via a 'iterated prisoners dilemma' what to do on the next turn. There are several variants. In short, it means you get to use my stuff because I get to use your stuff. You abuse it you get dropped like a hot potato. At least for the SSZ and Open Forge site we capture all traffic over the network via sniffer and can review it for any strangeness. Another technique we use is that we export our namespace resources read only, except in very special cases to particular individuals or node operators. We couple this with a 'small worlds' network approach; the number of connections per node is limited to ln(number of nodes). Which has some very strong characteristics, though it does have the weakness of getting it off the ground. It's a network application of the 'Kevin Bacon Game' or the 'Six Degrees of Seperation' theory. Studies of the Internet indicate that it's degree of freedom with respect to small world networks is somewhere between 17 and 21. This means that no two sites are farther away than that many hops (which takes us into spanning tree theories from graph theory). The utility of the small world model with respect to 'next neighbor' in the network is that you probably know that person as something other than a stranger. So there is a two fold factor being used: familiarity breeds trust, and it makes it reasonably easy to back track problems. An additional feature is that in tests small world networks seem to exhibit the least amount of congestion under heavy load. You will find several references on the Hangar 18 website to books that discuss these topics. A visit to Google will also turn up quite a few hits on these topics. I can particularly suggest the arXiv repository (eg xyz.lanl.gov). I sent out a 'suggested reading' list this morning to several of the lists and one of these goes into TFT with applications to animal cooperation to some degree. It's not on the H18 list. The book was, Cooperation Among Animals - An Evolutionary Approach L.A. Dugatkin ISBN 0-19-508621-x If you want to learn more than get some books on game theory, graph theory, and network theory. A book on psychology and group cooperation can be usefull as well. Ta ta. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 09:46:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 09:46:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21077 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 09:46:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21073 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 09:46:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 09:46:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AFB3519B41; Sun, 18 May 2003 20:46:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7DD2819B58 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 20:45:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <212668-21736>; Sun, 18 May 2003 20:45:16 -0400 Message-ID: <035201c31d9f$e9556840$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3EC82CB4.2030301@ameritech.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [9fans] anybody put nvram onto Sony VAIO memort stick? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 02:45:13 +0200 i seem to have 128Mb of the stuff, but the subject says it all. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 11:54:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 11:54:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27122 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 11:54:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27118 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 11:54:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 11:54:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 53F8B19B12; Sun, 18 May 2003 22:54:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3B24419AE9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 22:53:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h4J2sj808396; Sun, 18 May 2003 21:54:45 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: , In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 21:54:44 -0500 (CDT) On Sat, 17 May 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > I think the real problem with a free Plan 9 server is > latency. We can figure out the system robustness > problems, but the network latency is much harder > to get around. I'm typing this in my apartment, > on a drawterm session over my DSL line to > plan9.bell-labs.com. The latency is about 38ms. > At this distance drawterm is usable but noticeably > sluggish. But 38ms is probably near best case > for an open Plan 9 server across the internet. The average human response time is something like 200mS. If there is a problem then it's not 38mS latency, there is something else dragging it down. > You could use a text connection, but that's just > not a faithful experience. > > VNC is a little better but still leaves something to > be desired. And until somebody pushes it, such as a public server, the problem will never be solved. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 12:01:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 12:01:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27509 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 12:01:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27505 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 12:01:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 12:01:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BEB8919B35; Sun, 18 May 2003 23:01:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 422EA19B20 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 23:00:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun May 18 23:00:46 EDT 2003 Received: from 64.36.89.66 ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Sun May 18 23:00:44 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <4f80bbc926278b7ba74da13570f92f55@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 23:00:48 -0400 > The average human response time is something like 200mS. If there is a > problem then it's not 38mS latency, there is something else dragging it > down. This is true. There are too many round trips in most graphics operations. That multiplies the 38ms up to something barely bearable. But like I said, the latency of those operations is the real barrier to using the system remotely. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 12:44:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 12:44:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29136 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 12:44:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29131 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 12:44:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 12:44:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 76A9319B3D; Sun, 18 May 2003 23:44:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E47B319B20 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 23:43:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h4J3iGE08793; Sun, 18 May 2003 22:44:16 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: , In-Reply-To: <4f80bbc926278b7ba74da13570f92f55@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Latency Issues (was: Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts?) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 22:44:16 -0500 (CDT) On Sun, 18 May 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > > The average human response time is something like 200mS. If there is a > > problem then it's not 38mS latency, there is something else dragging it > > down. > > This is true. There are too many round trips in most > graphics operations. That multiplies the 38ms up to > something barely bearable. But like I said, the latency of > those operations is the real barrier to using the system > remotely. That was my next question, what is multiplying those latencies? As a datum, I am on a ISDN to a T1 and the ping times to my gateway which is about 6 miles away leaves me with a 34mS latency on ping times. I pull Xterms and such under Linux to Linux and don't see any significant latency issues. If we have 1000 mS and 30 frames/S this leaves us with 33 mS/frame. That's roughly a single frames worth of delay. On average, how many transfers are required for a single 640x480 frame? Clearly the graphics engine will need some attention once we get the auth issues worked out. I'll bump up its priority in the 'To do' queue...;) Considering we want to port Squeak to Plan 9 for the express purpose of using the VRML to create a expandable shared game environment this is clearly an important issue. Thanks for the info. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 12:50:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 12:50:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29433 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 12:50:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29428 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 12:50:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 12:50:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA31B19B48; Sun, 18 May 2003 23:50:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DD2D419B36 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 23:49:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun May 18 23:49:36 EDT 2003 Received: from 64.36.89.66 ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Sun May 18 23:49:34 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <4a5fdb789ff0332f8a3f6a97b72d2566@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Latency Issues (was: Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts?) From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 23:49:38 -0400 > That was my next question, what is multiplying those latencies? Read draw(3), but fundamentally the difference is that a 9P write doesn't finish until the other side acks it (responds with an Rwrite), while in X the writes are just sent off without waiting for responses. There are a couple draw calls that need responses (when you're allocating new images, for example) but the majority don't and would be helped quite a bit by not having to wait for the Rwrite. > Clearly the graphics engine will need some attention once we get the auth > issues worked out. > > I'll bump up its priority in the 'To do' queue...;) Considering we want to > port Squeak to Plan 9 for the express purpose of using the VRML to create > a expandable shared game environment this is clearly an important issue. I look forward to your fixes. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 16:02:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 16:02:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6095 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 16:02:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6091 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 16:02:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 16:02:45 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F310E19A71; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:02:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1874F19B53 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:01:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Fco.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] change in root(3) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 23:56:12 +0200 /sys/man/3/root says The syntax `#/' is illegal, so this device can only be accessed directly by the kernel. however, #/ works perfectly. The change is just to delete that paragraph. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 16:03:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 16:03:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6137 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 16:03:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6132 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 16:03:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 16:03:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 02D0E19B6E; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:02:25 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AEA5D19B53 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:01:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <09991bd9249961f910017b26dc302230@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Fco.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-rrwyugvddqtsivyzbklcozvwyi" Subject: [9fans] suggestion: avoiding out of date binaries Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 03:50:28 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-rrwyugvddqtsivyzbklcozvwyi Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I just got bitten recently by a couple of out of date binaries. All I had to do to `fix' what seemed to be a bug was to recompile a couple of programs. What about automating recompilation of out of date programs? My system is very much up to date wrt sources and it seems that all of my /386/bin is out of date, sic. The silly script I attach does pretty well for me to detect out of date binaries. It would be a matter of recompiling those ones detected after source code gets changed. I know this would make us pull new binaries often, but at least it's better for safety. Even better would be to instruct our mkfiles to compile only thing out of date and then simply run `mk' in the whole cmd tree; but I dont know of a clean way of doing it. The only way I know would be to use of a script like this in `update' targets added to every mkfile. --upas-rrwyugvddqtsivyzbklcozvwyi Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit #!/bin/rc # # -q: faster, but you wont know why it's out of date # -i: to ignore a file you know has changed (eg /sys/include/libc.h) rfork e fn usage { echo usage: outofdate [-q] [-i ignore] file... >[1=2] exit usage } fn newer { m1=`{mtime $1 | awk '{print $1}'} m2=$2 test $m1 -gt $m2 } ignored=() quiet=no while(~ $1 -*){ switch($1){ case -q quiet=yes case -i if (~ $2 '') usage ignored=`{cat $2} shift case -* usage } shift } if (~ $#* 0) usage updated='' for (file in $*){ if (~ `{file $file} *'plan 9 executable'*) { srcs=`{nm -a $file | grep ' z ' | sed -e 's/^.* z //' | grep -v '^$' | sort | uniq} fupdated='' ftime=`{mtime $file | awk '{print $1}'} for (s in $srcs) { if (! ~ $fupdated outofdate || ! ~ $quiet yes) if (test -f $s) if (! ~ $s $ignored) if (newer $s $ftime){ fupdated=outofdate updated=outofdate if (~ $quiet yes) echo $file if not echo $file: $s } } } } exit $updated --upas-rrwyugvddqtsivyzbklcozvwyi-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 16:05:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 16:05:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6197 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 16:05:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6193 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 16:05:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 16:05:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ECC6119B75; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:05:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 954D219B67 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:04:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 649768 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 19 May 2003 02:07:22 -0500 Message-ID: <480a695edbe0f27590f75067fc0a2239@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 00:04:18 -0700 > The average human response time is something like 200mS. Boyd must be superhuman. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 16:06:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 16:06:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6310 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 16:06:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6306 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 16:06:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 16:06:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B084419B86; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:06:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D2E0419B7A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:05:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon May 19 03:05:18 EDT 2003 Received: from 64.36.89.66 ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Mon May 19 03:05:16 EDT 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] change in root(3) From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 03:05:19 -0400 > however, #/ works perfectly. Perfectly is perhaps an overstatement. Try ls `{ls '#/'}. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 16:07:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 16:07:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6351 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 16:07:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6346 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 16:07:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 16:07:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9485F19B89; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:07:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1879D19B53 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:06:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon May 19 03:06:29 EDT 2003 Received: from 64.36.89.66 ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Mon May 19 03:06:27 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <7cf0f110637fa5f27d15f4de1b76ac66@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] suggestion: avoiding out of date binaries From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <09991bd9249961f910017b26dc302230@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 03:06:31 -0400 A cron job recompiles all the binaries every night and then mails me the list of changed binaries. I manually install them after sanity checking the list. Which binaries in particular were out of date? That isn't supposed to happen anymore. Perhaps you weren't pulling the binaries because you'd compiled them before (and thus they're locally modified). Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 16:08:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 16:08:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6384 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 16:08:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6380 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 16:08:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 16:08:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 26ACF19B8D; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:08:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2D10E19B80 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:07:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon May 19 03:07:49 EDT 2003 Received: from 64.36.89.66 ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Mon May 19 03:07:47 EDT 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] change in root(3) From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 03:07:51 -0400 > Perfectly is perhaps an overstatement. > Try ls `{ls '#/'}. Sigh. I meant ls `{ls -Q '#/'}. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 16:10:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 16:10:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6540 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 16:10:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6536 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 16:10:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 16:10:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8C60A19B97; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:10:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3D21B19B8A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:09:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] change in root(3) From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-unibffgdgldelzhfmgauyytkyo" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 09:09:30 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-unibffgdgldelzhfmgauyytkyo Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I know. But the best way to avoid that would be, IMHO, to rename it not to use /. We could just rename it to #F and then it would work. --upas-unibffgdgldelzhfmgauyytkyo Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Mon May 19 09:06:25 MDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B084419B86; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:06:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D2E0419B7A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:05:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon May 19 03:05:18 EDT 2003 Received: from 64.36.89.66 ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Mon May 19 03:05:16 EDT 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] change in root(3) From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 03:05:19 -0400 > however, #/ works perfectly. Perfectly is perhaps an overstatement. Try ls `{ls '#/'}. --upas-unibffgdgldelzhfmgauyytkyo-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 16:12:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 16:12:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6654 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 16:12:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6650 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 16:12:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 16:12:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6442719B9A; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:12:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 26CC519B96 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:11:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon May 19 03:11:12 EDT 2003 Received: from 64.36.89.66 ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Mon May 19 03:11:10 EDT 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] change in root(3) From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 03:11:13 -0400 It's meant to be special. I'd rather fix namec. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 16:14:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 16:14:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6729 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 16:14:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6725 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 16:14:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 16:14:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C97AE19B8A; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:14:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B269F19B93 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:13:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9c2bc5209eebb5231039a853b9c737d1@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] suggestion: avoiding out of date binaries From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <7cf0f110637fa5f27d15f4de1b76ac66@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 09:13:27 +0200 > Which binaries in particular were out of date? That isn't > supposed to happen anymore. > Perhaps you weren't pulling the binaries because you'd > compiled them before (and thus they're locally modified). Almost all the binaries are out of date here. I just checked and I think that happens on sources too. For example: ; ; ls -l (/n/sources/plan9/ /)^sys/include/libc.h --rw-rw-r-- M 63 glenda sys 18829 Apr 4 05:13 /n/sources/plan9/sys/include/libc.h --rw-rw-r-- M 9 sys sys 18829 Apr 4 05:13 /sys/include/libc.h ; ls -l (/n/sources/plan9/ /)^386/bin/rc --rwxrwxr-x M 9 sys sys 140122 Feb 18 04:14 /386/bin/rc --rwxrwxr-x M 63 glenda sys 140122 Feb 18 04:14 /n/sources/plan9/386/bin/rc That's what outofdate says, in fact. ; outofdate /386/bin/rc /386/bin/rc: /sys/include/libc.h From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 16:20:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 16:20:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7032 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 16:20:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7028 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 16:20:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 16:20:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2747219B93; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:20:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 38CF319B93 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:19:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon May 19 03:19:09 EDT 2003 Received: from 64.36.89.66 ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Mon May 19 03:19:06 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <9ecfac33ae83c9838c5e1ad9f978f668@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] suggestion: avoiding out of date binaries From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <9c2bc5209eebb5231039a853b9c737d1@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 03:19:10 -0400 > Almost all the binaries are out of date here. I just checked and I > think that happens on sources too. For example: > > ; ; ls -l (/n/sources/plan9/ /)^sys/include/libc.h > --rw-rw-r-- M 63 glenda sys 18829 Apr 4 05:13 /n/sources/plan9/sys/include/libc.h > --rw-rw-r-- M 9 sys sys 18829 Apr 4 05:13 /sys/include/libc.h > ; ls -l (/n/sources/plan9/ /)^386/bin/rc > --rwxrwxr-x M 9 sys sys 140122 Feb 18 04:14 /386/bin/rc > --rwxrwxr-x M 63 glenda sys 140122 Feb 18 04:14 /n/sources/plan9/386/bin/rc Yes but this is only because I cheat sometimes. For example, if libc.h is updated with something harmless (like the addition of a new function), there's no need to recompile every binary in the system. When I apply such inconsequential changes, I do the following: * make sure the binaries are up-to-date on sources * make the change and recompile everything * record info about new binaries but don't install them Sweeps actually compare the recently compiled binaries with binaries in a staging area. The last step above copies the new binaries to the staging area but not sources. This way future sweeps will not think they need updating, until they change again. This way everyone doesn't have to download all new binaries just because we added a function to libc.h. You haven't answered my question yet about which binaries were actually broken. Tit for tat, you know. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 16:22:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 16:22:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7154 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 16:22:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7149 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 16:22:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 16:22:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF82719BBC; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:22:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D112819B9E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:21:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557239-350>; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:20:57 -0400 Message-ID: <005e01c31dd7$30c99fc0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <480a695edbe0f27590f75067fc0a2239@mightycheese.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 09:20:56 +0200 > Boyd must be superhuman. i have not yet begun to fight :) http://www.history.navy.mil/trivia/trivia02a.htm From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 16:26:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 16:26:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7461 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 16:26:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7457 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 16:26:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 16:26:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 119CD19BB9; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:26:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 61DE419BA8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:25:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] suggestion: avoiding out of date binaries From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <9ecfac33ae83c9838c5e1ad9f978f668@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 09:25:45 +0200 I see. That's nice. I'm very happy to know that sources binaries are kept updated. Now that you ask, the binaries were paqfs and mkpaqfs for the arm as well as 5[cla] for the pc. What happen was that a freshly recompiled bitsy kernel was not able to attach to the paqdisk nor to file servers. I just recompiled 5[cla] and then recompiled /sys/src/paqfs for the arm and everything got working. This is what outofdate said for 5c, for example. ; outofdate /386/bin/5c /386/bin/5c: /386/include/u.h /386/bin/5c: /sys/include/libc.h /386/bin/5c: /sys/src/cmd/cc/dcl.c /386/bin/5c: /sys/src/cmd/cc/dpchk.c /386/bin/5c: /sys/src/libc/9sys/dirstat.c /386/bin/5c: /sys/src/libc/fmt/dofmt.c thanks a lot for your replies From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 16:29:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 16:29:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7583 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 16:29:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7579 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 16:29:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 16:29:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 219BC19BC2; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:29:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 51C4419BBD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:28:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] suggestion: avoiding out of date binaries From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 00:28:10 -0700 As I recall, the compiler binaries other than 8c aren't maintained on sources, so you have to recompile them yourself as needed. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 16:31:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 16:31:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7697 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 16:31:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7693 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 16:31:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 16:31:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1535F19BCA; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:31:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F08F519BC9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:30:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] change in root(3) From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 00:30:26 -0700 I used to use '#/.' successfully when '#/' by itself didn't work. Now "ls '#/.'" and "ls '#/'" produce the same output, perhaps due to cleanname. "ls '#/'*" definitely produces strange output, though. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 16:33:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 16:33:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7777 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 16:33:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7773 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 16:33:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 16:33:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 473D819BDC; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:33:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 108FB19BCF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:32:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon May 19 03:32:09 EDT 2003 Received: from 64.36.89.66 ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Mon May 19 03:32:06 EDT 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] suggestion: avoiding out of date binaries From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 03:32:10 -0400 For non-386 binaries, you are on your own. As Geoff points out, you are also on your own for non-386 compilers, loaders, and assemblers. In both cases the theory is that almost no one uses them, so they're not worth the space they take up. The first case is more defensible than the second. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 16:33:53 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 16:33:53 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7797 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 16:33:52 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7793 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 16:33:49 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 16:33:49 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2537519BE6; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:33:25 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F131419BD6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:32:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <86f6e94bfde7a0471e286d975be19a73@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] suggestion: avoiding out of date binaries From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 09:32:47 +0200 > As I recall, the compiler binaries other than 8c aren't maintained on > sources, so you have to recompile them yourself as needed. Then I'd suggest to keep them at least recompiled when getting out of date. If that's automated as Russ said, it'd be easy to include other compiler binaries too. They're small so I don't think it would be a problem. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 16:39:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 16:39:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8003 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 16:39:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7999 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 16:39:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 16:39:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3D07E19BCF; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:39:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9226719A98 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:38:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] suggestion: avoiding out of date binaries From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-opkdafbmjmmwozvxmbwwelplmh" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 09:38:09 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-opkdafbmjmmwozvxmbwwelplmh Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think what happen to me is just that I recompile all the arm binaries/libs/..., but I just didnt notice that I had to do the same with 5[cla] for the pc. BTW, I'm not sure, but think that what happen to me could also happen to Sape. Anyway, now that I know it's not a big deal; although I still think it would be more clean to keep all the 386 binaries updated. thanks a lot again. --upas-opkdafbmjmmwozvxmbwwelplmh Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Mon May 19 09:33:25 MDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 473D819BDC; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:33:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 108FB19BCF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:32:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon May 19 03:32:09 EDT 2003 Received: from 64.36.89.66 ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Mon May 19 03:32:06 EDT 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] suggestion: avoiding out of date binaries From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 03:32:10 -0400 For non-386 binaries, you are on your own. As Geoff points out, you are also on your own for non-386 compilers, loaders, and assemblers. In both cases the theory is that almost no one uses them, so they're not worth the space they take up. The first case is more defensible than the second. Russ --upas-opkdafbmjmmwozvxmbwwelplmh-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 16:48:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 16:48:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8395 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 16:48:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8391 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 16:48:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 16:48:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 538E619A98; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:48:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 055B019BE0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:47:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] suggestion: avoiding out of date binaries From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 00:47:17 -0700 Oh, barf! I compiled everything for the arm for the first time a few days ago since I expect an ipaq to arrive Monday or Tuesday. I just rebuilt 5c and it's different from /386/bin/5c: cpu% ls -l 8.out /bin/5c --rwxrwxr-x M 25391 sys sys 300181 Jun 22 2002 /bin/5c --rwxrwxr-x M 25391 geoff sys 300874 May 19 00:40 8.out cpu% size 8.out /bin/5c 187738t + 31664d + 27176b = 246578 8.out 187340t + 31656d + 27176b = 246172 /bin/5c Do I really have to throw away 89MB of WORM storage and rebuild /arm all over again? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 16:53:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 16:53:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8853 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 16:53:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8849 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 16:53:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 16:53:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BAFCD19BEB; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:53:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8B0F919BE4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:52:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <212613-20869>; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:51:43 -0400 Message-ID: <00bb01c31ddb$7c9838e0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] suggestion: avoiding out of date binaries MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 09:51:41 +0200 prusker & wobber From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 16:56:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 16:56:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9048 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 16:56:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9044 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 16:56:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 16:56:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DB8CD19BF1; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:56:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0942719AE9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:55:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 9854 invoked by uid 991); 19 May 2003 07:55:21 -0000 Message-ID: <20030519075521.9853.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] suggestion: avoiding out of date binaries In-Reply-To: Message from "Russ Cox" of "Mon, 19 May 2003 03:06:31 EDT." <7cf0f110637fa5f27d15f4de1b76ac66@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 03:55:21 -0400 | Which binaries in particular were out of date? That isn't | supposed to happen anymore. The kernels on a recently installed system weren't up to date, if I recall correctly. Also, during the install, I reshaped a window and got an error from /dev/draw via a failing echo command. 8.5 never complained about stuff like that! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 17:02:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 17:02:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9244 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 17:02:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9239 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 17:02:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 17:02:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3CEF119BF4; Mon, 19 May 2003 04:02:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 964F719BE4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 04:01:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon May 19 04:01:12 EDT 2003 Received: from 64.36.89.66 ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Mon May 19 04:01:10 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <3d4edb748d4f9951533dea09d942e29e@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] suggestion: avoiding out of date binaries From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030519075521.9853.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 04:01:13 -0400 > The kernels on a recently installed system weren't up to date, if I > recall correctly. The install CD is woefully out of date. So are the kernels on sources. It's hard to tell if the kernels are out of date because they contain the time they were compiled, so cmp isn't enough. The next time I install kernels on sources (which requires more testing than installing binaries) I'm going to retire the old install CD and make the nightly regenerated snapshot the default install CD. > Also, during the install, I reshaped a window and got an error from > /dev/draw via a failing echo command. 8.5 never complained about > stuff like that! I'm having a hard time parsing this. 8.5 is replaced by rio, not /dev/draw. The failing echo command is completely separate from both. There are some background processes trying to guard against people who touch the mouse without knowing what they're doing. In particular, every time a prompt comes up in the main window, it runs echo top >/dev/wctl echo current >/dev/wctl or something like that. That's probably what failed, though I can't imagine why. I can't think of any reasons you'd echo anything into a file in the /dev/draw hierarchy. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 17:37:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 17:37:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10961 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 17:37:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10957 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 17:37:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 17:37:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA92B19BD1; Mon, 19 May 2003 04:37:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 51EAE19B56 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 04:36:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] suggestion: avoiding out of date binaries From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 10:36:16 +0200 > Do I really have to throw away 89MB of WORM storage and rebuild /arm > all over again? I keep /arm at /n/once, which is a partition that wont get into the worm. But yes, I'd recompile it all. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 17:39:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 17:39:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11025 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 17:39:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11021 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 17:39:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 17:39:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9ACB319BFD; Mon, 19 May 2003 04:39:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7573819BE4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 04:38:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4J8c0Ea019123 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 01:38:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Skip Tavakkolian" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] writememimage slowness Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 01:43:02 -0700 I am running into a problem when, after building a large Memimage of some 22800 glyphs and trying to write it out, writememimage() seems to run forever. The size of the Memimage is (22800×font_width, font_height). Any ideas? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 17:39:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 17:39:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11037 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 17:39:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11033 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 17:39:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 17:39:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E9CA719C02; Mon, 19 May 2003 04:39:24 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 87C1619BE4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 04:38:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 10087 invoked by uid 991); 19 May 2003 08:38:18 -0000 Message-ID: <20030519083818.10086.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] suggestion: avoiding out of date binaries In-Reply-To: Message from "Russ Cox" of "Mon, 19 May 2003 04:01:13 EDT." <3d4edb748d4f9951533dea09d942e29e@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 04:38:18 -0400 | I'm having a hard time parsing this. At 4am, I had a hard time generating it. :) I meant to say rio, of course. The message was "action disallowed when mouse active", from wctl.c. | or something like that. That's probably what failed, though | I can't imagine why. I can't think of any reasons you'd echo | anything into a file in the /dev/draw hierarchy. All I did was sweep out a new window while things were scrolling along in the install windows. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 18:03:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 18:03:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12039 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 18:03:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12035 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 18:03:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 18:03:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9947E19BD9; Mon, 19 May 2003 05:03:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EEB3719BD9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 05:02:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1424aa3a6803756c2641485d3d460baa@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9bitsy partitions From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <20030517164801.SXVE20751.fvc2-p@ISABELLA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ctzfhbpidrhargbqdaahrtuvek" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 11:02:45 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ctzfhbpidrhargbqdaahrtuvek Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'll update Booting101 an a couple of other files in a while. Trust paq.c in the mean time. --upas-ctzfhbpidrhargbqdaahrtuvek Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Sat May 17 18:49:38 MDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 83BD119A0D; Sat, 17 May 2003 12:49:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mta1p.point.ne.jp (mta1.point.ne.jp [210.188.175.70]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D306019980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 17 May 2003 12:48:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vc9.point.ne.jp ([211.1.103.137]) by mta1p.point.ne.jp with ESMTP id <20030517164802.JGZO26982.mta1p@vc9.point.ne.jp> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 01:48:02 +0900 Received: from fvc2-p.point.ne.jp by vc9.point.ne.jp (Scanmail) with ESMTP id 3D2A92AA0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 01:48:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from ISABELLA ([218.230.113.223]) by fvc2-p.point.ne.jp with SMTP id <20030517164801.SXVE20751.fvc2-p@ISABELLA> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 May 2003 01:48:01 +0900 From: kazumi iwane To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailer: Datula version 1.51.09 for Windows Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-Id: <20030517164801.SXVE20751.fvc2-p@ISABELLA> Subject: [9fans] 9bitsy partitions Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 01:48:01 +0900 Hello 9fans, About 9bitsy's partitions. There are two docs (Booting101 and a Wiki page) about the subject, and they differ with each other. And then, source files (paq.c and cpurc) say something entirely different. /sys/src/9/bitsy/Booting101: partition define bootldr 0x000000 0x040000 2 partition define params 0x040000 0x040000 0 partition define kernel 0x080000 0x0c0000 0 partition define user 0x140000 0x0c0000 0 partition define ramdisk 0x200000 0xa00000 0 partition define fs 0xc00000 0x400000 0 Wiki: partition define bootldr 0x000000 0x040000 2 partition define params 0x040000 0x040000 0 partition define kernel 0x080000 0x0c0000 0 partition define user 0x140000 0x0c0000 0 partition define ramdisk 0x200000 0x600000 0 partition define fs 0x800000 0x800000 0 /sys/src/9/boot/paq.c: char *fparts[] = { "add bootldr 0x0000000 0x0040000", "add params 0x0040000 0x0080000", "add kernel 0x0080000 0x0140000", "add user 0x0140000 0x0200000", "add ramdisk 0x0200000 0x0800000", }; /sys/src/9/bitsy/paqfiles/cpurc: echo -n add fs 0x0800000 0x1000000 > /dev/flash/flashctl Should I trust paq.c & cpurc? -- kazumi --upas-ctzfhbpidrhargbqdaahrtuvek-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 18:58:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 18:58:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14158 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 18:58:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14154 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 18:58:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 18:58:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5B6E019BDD; Mon, 19 May 2003 05:58:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9C86A19B59 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 05:57:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19HhEM-0003lO-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 19 May 2003 10:46:54 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "boyd, rounin" Message-ID: <3ec7ba86$0$21561$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net> Organization: Noos References: <01ba01c31d52$a03a3980$e3944251@insultant.net>, Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 09:46:48 GMT "Jim Choate" a écrit dans le message de news:Pine.LNX.4.33.0305181129000.1252-100000@einstein.ssz.com... > > pure MVS ... :( > > Strawman. ... Mark V. Shaney was not made out of straw. maybe you mean the tin man? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 18:58:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 18:58:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14179 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 18:58:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14174 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 18:58:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 18:58:48 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 30E9A19C0E; Mon, 19 May 2003 05:58:26 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 379A819B59 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 05:57:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19HhDp-0003k0-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 19 May 2003 10:46:21 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "boyd, rounin" Message-ID: <3ec61eea$0$13109$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net> Organization: Noos References: , <200305161602.h4GG27512619@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] File server for NT Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 09:46:12 GMT "Dan Cross" a écrit dans le message de news:200305161602.h4GG27512619@augusta.math.psu.edu... > Yeah, but just because the namespace is private to you doesn't mean that > someone can't put something nasty in it. yup, and with these 'modern' lunix shells, typing: /bin/su is no longer guaranteed to do what it would do, when i were a lad ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 18:59:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 18:59:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14205 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 18:59:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14201 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 18:59:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 18:59:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E6E3919C23; Mon, 19 May 2003 05:58:37 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 47D1B19BDD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 05:57:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19HhDp-0003ju-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 19 May 2003 10:46:21 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Andrew Simmons Message-ID: Organization: Xtra Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , <9ae01ec77d52ccacd04fb1e41df45677@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] File server for NT Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 09:45:59 GMT > > As everyone else said, when you type "pwd" your shell searches > your path -- (. /bin) -- for the binary to run. This means it > tries to access "./pwd" and then "/bin/pwd". The first turns into > "/n/ajs/c/nurdge/pwd" since . is "/n/ajs/c/nurdge". > > You can simulate this manually by typing "./pwd; /bin/pwd". > Also, if you typed "/bin/pwd" directly, then you wouldn't see > any traffic. > Thanks, I finally understand now you've explained it in words of one syllable. Apologies to all for being so slow. I think I should stick to using a Mac in future. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 19:02:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 19:02:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14372 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 19:02:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14368 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 19:02:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 19:02:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B75C919C26; Mon, 19 May 2003 06:02:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B193919B43 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 06:01:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19HhEM-0003lC-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 19 May 2003 10:46:54 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "boyd, rounin" Message-ID: <3ec62061$0$10158$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net> Organization: Noos References: <3EB9E853.7040405@null.net>, <4bb7193815221f5e70d7548882f9109a@vitanuova.com>, <3EBB29D8.7030200@null.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 09:46:25 GMT "Douglas A. Gwyn" a écrit dans le message de news:3EBB29D8.7030200@null.net... > Well, I don't want to get into a debate about that; suffice > it to say that "get next character" is, to me, a function > that cannot be performed when there is no next character ... that's what peekc() macros are for :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 19:03:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 19:03:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14397 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 19:03:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14393 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 19:03:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 19:03:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9E78319C33; Mon, 19 May 2003 06:02:30 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D687519B59 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 06:01:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19HhEM-0003lI-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 19 May 2003 10:46:54 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "boyd, rounin" Message-ID: <3ec62fc7$0$11581$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net> Organization: Noos References: <3EB9352B.9060603@ameritech.net>, Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 09:46:36 GMT "Sam" a écrit dans le message de news:Pine.LNX.4.30.0305071048580.10670-100000@athena... > ``Your conventional `good citizen' ... ... the epistemological anarchist has no compunction to defend the most trite, or the most outrageous statement. ... he may use reason, emotion, ridicule, an `attitude of serious concern' and whatever other means have been invented by humans to get the better of their fellow men. His favourite pastime is to confuse rationalists ... There is no view, however `absurd' or `immoral', he refuses to consider or to act upon, and no method is regarded as indispensable. -- Paul K Feyerabend "Against Method" From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 19:13:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 19:13:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14682 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 19:13:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14677 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 19:13:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 19:13:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 35FEC19B59; Mon, 19 May 2003 06:13:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1EB5B19C2A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 06:12:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19HhEw-0003me-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 19 May 2003 10:47:30 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Anthony Mandic Message-ID: <3EC87415.C69A8FA3@start.com.au> Organization: Mandic Consulting Pty. Ltd. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: , <01ba01c31d52$a03a3980$e3944251@insultant.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 09:47:07 GMT "boyd, rounin" wrote: > > From: "Jim Choate" > > processes running on other processors besides the cpu on the diskless > > workstation with shared namespaces that are not tied to any of the processors > > the processes are running on (the second most important distinction), > > pure MVS ... :( What? Shaney? -am © 2003 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 19:23:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 19:23:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15167 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 19:23:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15162 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 19:23:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 19:23:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D11A19C37; Mon, 19 May 2003 06:23:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8BDFF19BFA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 06:22:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <212666-20860>; Mon, 19 May 2003 06:22:10 -0400 Message-ID: <023401c31df0$81783080$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3EC87415.C69A8FA3@start.com.au> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 12:22:08 +0200 > What? Shaney? nah, the operating system :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 20:28:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 20:28:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16492 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 20:28:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16488 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 20:28:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 20:28:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EFCE319B71; Mon, 19 May 2003 07:28:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 27EF719B5B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 07:27:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19HifW-0005r6-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 19 May 2003 12:19:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Aharon Robbins Message-ID: Organization: Pioneer Consulting, Ltd. References: <20030518192542.GA1174@thefrayedknot.armory.com>, <200305181938.h4IJcw526342@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: SMTP stuff. Was: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 11:17:06 GMT Perhaps a bit off topic, but ... since SMTP came up, if anyone's interested, http://www.skeeve.com/sendout3.ps.gz is the postscript for a small program I wrote (four years ago) using Gawk and its sockets. It reads a Unix-style mbox file and sends the contained messages to an SMTP server for delivery. I wrote it when my network connectivity was somewhat more primitive than now. It's not a sendmail/qmail/postfix replacement by any means, but it may provide some amusement. (It's a .ps file since I used literate programming (noweb + latex) to write the code.) Enjoy, Arnold -- Aharon (Arnold) Robbins --- Pioneer Consulting Ltd. arnold@skeeve.com P.O. Box 354 Home Phone: +972 8 979-0381 Fax: +1 928 569 9018 Nof Ayalon Cell Phone: +972 51 297-545 D.N. Shimshon 99785 ISRAEL From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 20:28:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 20:28:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16513 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 20:28:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16509 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 20:28:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 20:28:45 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 158CC19BF2; Mon, 19 May 2003 07:28:26 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE46419B5B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 07:27:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0f392c4e077c0c266868611461c80388@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Fco.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] bitsy updated in sources Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 13:27:35 +0200 wavelan.c was out of date. Now it's ok. BTW, I have updated a couple of binaries (kernel and paqdisk) at /n/sources/nemo/arm just to simplify things for others (But I'd suggest compiling them after a pull from sources, just to be sure you can regenerate your binaries if you need to). hth From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 21:20:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 21:20:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17380 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 21:20:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17376 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 21:20:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 21:20:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 75CCA19B5F; Mon, 19 May 2003 08:20:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 085E519980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 08:19:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from proweb.co.uk (juice [192.168.1.100]) by juice.thebigchoice.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38FEAC3C37 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 13:19:29 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <3EC8CBD1.4030807@proweb.co.uk> From: matt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: SMTP stuff. Was: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? References: <20030518192542.GA1174@thefrayedknot.armory.com>, <200305181938.h4IJcw526342@augusta.math.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 13:19:29 +0100 I'm particularly interested as that was a solution I was looking for at that very moment Now I'm solving the "how to get the .awk out of the .ps" problem instead I'm not sure if that wouldn't even be a DMCA violation ! >Perhaps a bit off topic, but ... since SMTP came up, if anyone's interested, > > http://www.skeeve.com/sendout3.ps.gz > >is the postscript for a small program I wrote (four years ago) using >Gawk and its sockets. It reads a Unix-style mbox file and sends the >contained messages to an SMTP server for delivery. I wrote it when my >network connectivity was somewhat more primitive than now. > >It's not a sendmail/qmail/postfix replacement by any means, but it may >provide some amusement. > >(It's a .ps file since I used literate programming (noweb + latex) to >write the code.) > >Enjoy, > >Arnold > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 21:31:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 21:31:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17631 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 21:31:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17627 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 21:31:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 21:31:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5072919C5B; Mon, 19 May 2003 08:31:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8BE7319B51 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 08:30:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <212665-20861>; Mon, 19 May 2003 08:30:00 -0400 Message-ID: <001f01c31e02$5c882520$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: SMTP stuff. Was: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 14:29:57 +0200 > Perhaps a bit off topic, but ... since SMTP came up, if anyone's interested, > > http://www.skeeve.com/sendout3.ps.gz > does it grok groups? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 21:36:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 21:36:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17694 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 21:36:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17690 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 21:36:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 21:36:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1A7A219C5F; Mon, 19 May 2003 08:36:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 11A5C19C2A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 08:35:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19Hjh7-0007QV-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 19 May 2003 13:24:45 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Anthony Mandic Message-ID: <3EC8CAE7.D5414651@start.com.au> Organization: Mandic Consulting Pty. Ltd. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <3EC87415.C69A8FA3@start.com.au>, <023401c31df0$81783080$e3944251@insultant.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 12:24:33 GMT "boyd, rounin" wrote: > > > What? Shaney? > > nah, the operating system :) Pity. -am © 2003 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 21:45:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 21:45:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17835 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 21:45:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17831 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 21:45:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 21:45:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F2EC819C66; Mon, 19 May 2003 08:45:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from magnum.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C851919C2A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 08:44:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from robin.cooper.edu by magnum.cooper.edu with SMTP id AA05989 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>); Mon, 19 May 2003 08:48:49 -0400 Received: from localhost by robin.cooper.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA09091; Mon, 19 May 2003 08:44:25 -0400 From: Joel Salomon To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Latency Issues (was: Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts?) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 08:44:25 -0400 (EDT) On Sun, 18 May 2003, Jim Choate wrote: > I'll bump up its priority in the 'To do' queue...;) Considering we want to > port Squeak to Plan 9 for the express purpose of using the VRML to create > a expandable shared game environment this is clearly an important issue. Just remember /sys/doc/names: > Object-oriented readers may approach the rest of this paper as a study > in how to make objects look like files. --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 21:49:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 21:49:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17968 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 21:49:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17964 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 21:49:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 21:49:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A816E19C6B; Mon, 19 May 2003 08:49:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from magnum.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 392A819C60 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 08:48:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from robin.cooper.edu by magnum.cooper.edu with SMTP id AA06070 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>); Mon, 19 May 2003 08:52:40 -0400 Received: from localhost by robin.cooper.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA09192; Mon, 19 May 2003 08:48:17 -0400 From: Joel Salomon To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] suggestion: avoiding out of date binaries In-Reply-To: <09991bd9249961f910017b26dc302230@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 08:48:17 -0400 (EDT) On Sun, 18 May 2003, Fco.J.Ballesteros wrote: > What about automating recompilation of out of date programs? Isn't the purpose of mk to be able to compile only programs that are out of date wrt source? Or am I mising something --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 21:53:10 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 21:53:10 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18057 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 21:53:09 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18053 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 21:53:09 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 21:53:09 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE2E219C62; Mon, 19 May 2003 08:52:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC03D19C73 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 08:51:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <212837-20863>; Mon, 19 May 2003 08:50:54 -0400 Message-ID: <006c01c31e05$48a8d600$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3EC8CAE7.D5414651@start.com.au> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 14:50:52 +0200 > Pity. it was deliberately ambiguous ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 22:07:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 22:07:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18573 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 22:07:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18569 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 22:07:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 22:07:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C74E919C78; Mon, 19 May 2003 09:07:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from magnum.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 338B119C72 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 09:06:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from robin.cooper.edu by magnum.cooper.edu with SMTP id AA06544 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>); Mon, 19 May 2003 09:11:10 -0400 Received: from localhost by robin.cooper.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA09679; Mon, 19 May 2003 09:06:47 -0400 From: Joel Salomon To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? In-Reply-To: <200305181536.h4IFag525170@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 09:06:47 -0400 (EDT) > Of course, Nemo's tome on the Plan 9 kernel will give you a lot of > insight into Plan 9, in a manner similar to how Lions' papers gave > one insight into Unix. Speaking of which, is there a newer version out? The version I have is Notes on the Plan 9 tm 3rd edition Kernel Source January 8, 2001 I don't mean to pressure anyone, just a friendly inquiry. --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 23:01:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 23:01:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19345 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 23:01:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19341 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 23:01:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 23:01:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E6D719C6C; Mon, 19 May 2003 10:01:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E7AD519B69 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 10:00:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <30b0d8004d60670fd912295dab1a0ce3@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-qcbedzldlujcvvwbrrsgkjqfox" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 16:00:16 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-qcbedzldlujcvvwbrrsgkjqfox Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nope. Sorry. I didnt get the time to update it. You probably have the last version. If any update it, I'll let 9fans know, so dont worry. --upas-qcbedzldlujcvvwbrrsgkjqfox Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Mon May 19 15:07:29 MDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C74E919C78; Mon, 19 May 2003 09:07:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from magnum.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 338B119C72 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 09:06:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from robin.cooper.edu by magnum.cooper.edu with SMTP id AA06544 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>); Mon, 19 May 2003 09:11:10 -0400 Received: from localhost by robin.cooper.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA09679; Mon, 19 May 2003 09:06:47 -0400 From: Joel Salomon To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? In-Reply-To: <200305181536.h4IFag525170@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 09:06:47 -0400 (EDT) > Of course, Nemo's tome on the Plan 9 kernel will give you a lot of > insight into Plan 9, in a manner similar to how Lions' papers gave > one insight into Unix. Speaking of which, is there a newer version out? The version I have is Notes on the Plan 9 tm 3rd edition Kernel Source January 8, 2001 I don't mean to pressure anyone, just a friendly inquiry. --Joel --upas-qcbedzldlujcvvwbrrsgkjqfox-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 19 23:02:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 19 23:02:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19356 invoked by uid 1020); 19 May 2003 23:02:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19352 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 23:02:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 May 2003 23:02:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A366419C76; Mon, 19 May 2003 10:02:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CEDE519C7D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 10:01:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <333aa52561b6ce7154f00a93a0baa2f3@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] suggestion: avoiding out of date binaries From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 16:01:27 +0200 > Isn't the purpose of mk to be able to compile only programs that are out > of date wrt source? Or am I mising something mk knows how to generate targets from sources. But if you for example, do a mk clean, a mk install will install the binary again. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 20 00:14:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 20 00:14:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20687 invoked by uid 1020); 20 May 2003 00:14:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20683 invoked from network); 20 May 2003 00:14:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 May 2003 00:14:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E495419B18; Mon, 19 May 2003 11:14:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5F32919B18 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 11:13:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19HmEu-0002KU-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 19 May 2003 16:07:48 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Anthony Mandic Message-ID: <3EC8E3B6.CED22918@start.com.au> Organization: Mandic Consulting Pty. Ltd. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <3EC8CAE7.D5414651@start.com.au>, <006c01c31e05$48a8d600$e3944251@insultant.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 15:07:41 GMT "boyd, rounin" wrote: > > > Pity. > > it was deliberately ambiguous ... I know but I was kind of hoping Mark would pop his head in on this silly thread. Maybe, if we ask nicely, brucee will have a word with him. -am © 2003 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 20 00:21:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 20 00:21:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20794 invoked by uid 1020); 20 May 2003 00:21:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20790 invoked from network); 20 May 2003 00:21:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 May 2003 00:21:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B384219B7A; Mon, 19 May 2003 11:21:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7D45A19B6D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 11:20:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h4JEOka9003631 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 10:24:46 -0400 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] https Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 10:24:46 -0400 (EDT) Having followed the directions in rsa(8), I'm still not able to make secure connections. The following is in the logfile for httpd: can't open /net/tcp/25/data: tls: local factotum_rsa_open: no key matches proto=sshrsa role=client % lookman sshrsa man 4 factotum # factotum(4) % man 4 factotum | grep sshrsa % tips? Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 20 00:36:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 20 00:36:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20955 invoked by uid 1020); 20 May 2003 00:36:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20951 invoked from network); 20 May 2003 00:36:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 May 2003 00:36:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1452219B90; Mon, 19 May 2003 11:36:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 65DBD19B68 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 11:35:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15103 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 11:35:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h4JFZT501736 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 11:35:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305191535.h4JFZT501736@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] https In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 19 May 2003 10:24:46 EDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 11:35:29 -0400 Shouldn't that be, ``proto=rsa'' ? - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 20 00:39:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 20 00:39:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20983 invoked by uid 1020); 20 May 2003 00:39:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20979 invoked from network); 20 May 2003 00:39:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 May 2003 00:39:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7BD4819AE9; Mon, 19 May 2003 11:39:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3616F19B80 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 11:38:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h4JEgPa9003702 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 10:42:25 -0400 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] https In-Reply-To: <200305191535.h4JFZT501736@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 10:42:25 -0400 (EDT) > Shouldn't that be, ``proto=rsa'' ? Yeah, it probably *should* be, but it's not. Therein lies my confusion. Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 20 03:17:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 20 03:17:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23350 invoked by uid 1020); 20 May 2003 03:17:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23346 invoked from network); 20 May 2003 03:17:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 May 2003 03:17:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EEC2619B2F; Mon, 19 May 2003 14:17:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from wintermute.cse.psu.edu (wintermute.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.5]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 664F719B63 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 14:16:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by wintermute.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server (Backup MX)) with ESMTP id 40FF873D6F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 13:20:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28192 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 12:50:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h4JGoj502229 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 12:50:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305191650.h4JGoj502229@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] https In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 19 May 2003 10:42:25 EDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 12:50:45 -0400 Sam writes: > > > Shouldn't that be, ``proto=rsa'' ? > > Yeah, it probably *should* be, but it's not. > Therein lies my confusion. Okay, I'll be definative. It should be, ``proto=rsa service=tls''; that's what I'm using on my web server. The documentation is probably out of date. There was a note to 9fans from Russ about it, but it was a while back. Make that change, and you'll be good to go. Make sure you have, ``owner=none'' in there, too, but I think you mentioned that earlier and are already good to go with it. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 20 03:20:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 20 03:20:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23363 invoked by uid 1020); 20 May 2003 03:20:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23359 invoked from network); 20 May 2003 03:20:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 May 2003 03:20:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA45319B3E; Mon, 19 May 2003 14:20:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2E59919AFD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 14:19:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4JIJBc19420; Mon, 19 May 2003 14:19:11 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] https From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <200305191650.h4JGoj502229@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 14:19:10 -0400 Notice that if you haven't pulled in a while, you might have an old ip/httpd/httpd binary, which will still be looking for proto=sshrsa keys. Also you need to recompile your kernel in order to link in a new factotum that knows about proto=rsa. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 20 03:51:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 20 03:51:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23812 invoked by uid 1020); 20 May 2003 03:51:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23808 invoked from network); 20 May 2003 03:51:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 May 2003 03:51:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1816D19B2A; Mon, 19 May 2003 14:51:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from wintermute.cse.psu.edu (wintermute.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.5]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 285FA19B42 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 14:50:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail3.panix.com (mail3.panix.com [166.84.1.74]) by wintermute.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server (Backup MX)) with ESMTP id 80FEE73CF4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 12:39:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from panix1.panix.com (panix1.panix.com [166.84.1.1]) by mail3.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA3A7981A5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 12:35:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from markp@localhost) by panix1.panix.com (8.11.6p2/8.8.8/PanixN1.0) id h4JGZD505069 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 19 May 2003 12:35:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Message-Id: <200305191635.h4JGZD505069@panix1.panix.com> X-Mailer: mailx (AT&T/BSD) 9.8 2001-04-01 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: SMTP stuff. Was: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 12:35:13 -0400 (EDT) | Now I'm solving the "how to get the .awk out of the .ps" problem instead term% gs -q -dNODISPLAY -dNOBIND -dWRITESYSTEMDICT -dSIMPLE ps2ascii.ps sendout3.ps quit.ps :) ---mp From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 20 06:29:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 20 06:29:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25932 invoked by uid 1020); 20 May 2003 06:29:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25928 invoked from network); 20 May 2003 06:29:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 May 2003 06:29:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CB9D419B56; Mon, 19 May 2003 17:29:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id ACF1A19B4B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 17:28:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 4892 invoked from network); 19 May 2003 21:28:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO proweb.co.uk) (192.168.1.100) by juice.thebigchoice.com with SMTP; 19 May 2003 21:28:18 -0000 Message-ID: <3EC94C72.7080304@proweb.co.uk> From: matt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: SMTP stuff. Was: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? References: <200305191635.h4JGZD505069@panix1.panix.com> In-Reply-To: <200305191635.h4JGZD505069@panix1.panix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 22:28:18 +0100 markp@panix.com wrote: >| Now I'm solving the "how to get the .awk out of the .ps" problem instead > >term% gs -q -dNODISPLAY -dNOBIND -dWRITESYSTEMDICT -dSIMPLE ps2ascii.ps sendout3.ps quit.ps > >:) > was it on purpose that this would extract everything *but* the awk code? > The program relies on a not-yet-released version of gawk I guess I'll have to wait until then, which is a shame because I'm a big fan of awk and it's derivatives. But I'm excited about awk and sockets meeting on unix From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 20 07:14:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 20 07:14:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26841 invoked by uid 1020); 20 May 2003 07:14:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26837 invoked from network); 20 May 2003 07:14:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 May 2003 07:14:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8F17A19B4F; Mon, 19 May 2003 18:14:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ns.mccme.ru (ns.mccme.ru [62.117.108.3]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 75B8419B49 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 18:13:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by ns.mccme.ru (8.12.9/8.12.9) with UUCP id h4JL4Dat001049 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 20 May 2003 01:04:13 +0400 Received: by donkey.bronnikov.mccme.ru (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D595053CB0; Tue, 20 May 2003 02:09:30 +0400 (MSD) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by donkey.bronnikov.mccme.ru (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAFA553CAF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 02:09:30 +0400 (MSD) From: George Bronnikov X-X-Sender: goga@donkey To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? In-Reply-To: <024201c31d5c$da228d00$e3944251@insultant.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 02:09:30 +0400 (MSD) It's `A Love Affair With Cocaine' (same word in Russian - "roman"). A fine book, really. The translator must have been a moron. Sorry for OT. goga On Sun, 18 May 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > err, Novel With Cocaine? > > Bush "Still Likes Tasty Things" > While President Bush was in Russia, he enjoyed some candy. > This report also claims that "before coming to Russia Bush read > Dostoyevsky's novel Crime and Punishment in order to get a better > understanding of the Russian soul." I would have recommended he > read M. Agayev's Novel with Cocaine instead. > > http://www.boss-tweed.com/2002_05_01_archives.html#77055291 > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 20 07:17:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 20 07:17:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26884 invoked by uid 1020); 20 May 2003 07:17:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26880 invoked from network); 20 May 2003 07:17:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 May 2003 07:17:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4841F19B63; Mon, 19 May 2003 18:17:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.181]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 157EB19B5C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 18:16:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-10-145.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.10.145 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2003 22:16:41 -0000 Message-ID: <3EC96592.50404@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Channel casting Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 18:15:30 -0500 Afternoon, all; Regarding channels in threads and procs, is a given channel multicast or unicast? By that, I mean, say I have multiple threads in a blocking recv() from a Channel. The service thread reads a request off the Channel, then, wants to send an appropriate response to the sender. If the server thread then send()s on the Channel while the multiple client threads are recv()ing, will the correct client thread receive the reply? Will they all receive the reply? What is the strategy for this issue. Don From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 20 07:25:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 20 07:25:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26985 invoked by uid 1020); 20 May 2003 07:25:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26981 invoked from network); 20 May 2003 07:25:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 May 2003 07:25:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C860219B60; Mon, 19 May 2003 18:25:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7657C19B57 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 18:24:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4JMOnc39964; Mon, 19 May 2003 18:24:49 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: <3100726675a9ffcb9f2eefc78956dba1@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Channel casting From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <3EC96592.50404@ameritech.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 18:24:49 -0400 unicast. For the case you describe, the client typically sends a (request, return-channel) pair and then recvs from the return channel, which is private to that client. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 20 07:31:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 20 07:31:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27036 invoked by uid 1020); 20 May 2003 07:31:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27032 invoked from network); 20 May 2003 07:31:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 May 2003 07:31:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A286519B57; Mon, 19 May 2003 18:31:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2661119B57 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 18:30:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-10-145.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.10.145 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2003 22:30:19 -0000 Message-ID: <3EC968C4.9000006@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Channel casting References: <3100726675a9ffcb9f2eefc78956dba1@plan9.bell-labs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 18:29:08 -0500 > > >For the case you describe, the client typically >sends a (request, return-channel) pair and >then recvs from the return channel, which is >private to that client. > Ah, okay. Let me make sure I understand this. First, client C creates its own Channel. Second, C generates the request structure suitable to the server thread, including the private Channel as a member. Third, C sends the request structure to to the server S via the public Channel. Fourth, S retrieves said req, manifests the proper response structure, then sends the response back on C's private Channel. Finally, C receives the response on the private channel, then, optionally closes the private chan. Correct? > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 20 07:33:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 20 07:33:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27044 invoked by uid 1020); 20 May 2003 07:33:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27040 invoked from network); 20 May 2003 07:33:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 May 2003 07:33:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4B80519B6B; Mon, 19 May 2003 18:33:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8896E19B52 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 18:32:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Channel casting From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <3100726675a9ffcb9f2eefc78956dba1@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-zrmpexfnfoelkwpjysrwbflzup" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 23:14:57 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-zrmpexfnfoelkwpjysrwbflzup Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit and a thing of beauty --upas-zrmpexfnfoelkwpjysrwbflzup Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 1053383155:20:25488:27; Mon, 19 May 2003 22:25:55 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2124715; 19 May 2003 22:25 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C860219B60; Mon, 19 May 2003 18:25:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7657C19B57 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 18:24:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4JMOnc39964; Mon, 19 May 2003 18:24:49 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: <3100726675a9ffcb9f2eefc78956dba1@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Channel casting From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <3EC96592.50404@ameritech.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 18:24:49 -0400 unicast. For the case you describe, the client typically sends a (request, return-channel) pair and then recvs from the return channel, which is private to that client. Russ --upas-zrmpexfnfoelkwpjysrwbflzup-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 20 07:39:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 20 07:39:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27134 invoked by uid 1020); 20 May 2003 07:39:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27130 invoked from network); 20 May 2003 07:39:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 May 2003 07:39:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BD18B19B70; Mon, 19 May 2003 18:39:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CB97B19B6F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 18:38:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4JMc2c41131; Mon, 19 May 2003 18:38:02 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Channel casting From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <3EC968C4.9000006@ameritech.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 18:38:02 -0400 > Correct? Yes. In Limbo, here's an echo server: srvchan := chan of (int, chan of int); for(;;){ (n, c) := <-srvchan; c <-= n; } And some clients: echothread(srvchan: chan of (int, chan of int)) { c := chan of int; for(i:=0;; i++){ srvchan <-= (i, c); j := <-c; sys->print("sent %d, got %d\n", i, j); } } spawn echothread(srvchan); spawn echothread(srvchan); spawn echothread(srvchan); spawn echothread(srvchan); or something like that. You can do the same with libthread, but everything is uglier in libthread. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 20 07:47:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 20 07:47:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27253 invoked by uid 1020); 20 May 2003 07:47:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27249 invoked from network); 20 May 2003 07:47:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 May 2003 07:47:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 19EC419B74; Mon, 19 May 2003 18:47:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.181]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 5B78119B72 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 18:46:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-10-145.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.10.145 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2003 22:46:46 -0000 Message-ID: <3EC96CA0.4060706@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Channel casting References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 18:45:36 -0500 Great, thanks! Don From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 20 09:34:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 20 09:34:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29869 invoked by uid 1020); 20 May 2003 09:34:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29865 invoked from network); 20 May 2003 09:34:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 May 2003 09:34:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B124819B77; Mon, 19 May 2003 20:34:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail1.panix.com (mail1.panix.com [166.84.1.72]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 48B7219B53 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 20:33:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from panix1.panix.com (panix1.panix.com [166.84.1.1]) by mail1.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC94248E00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 20:33:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from markp@localhost) by panix1.panix.com (8.11.6p2/8.8.8/PanixN1.0) id h4K0X6A21760 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 19 May 2003 20:33:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Message-Id: <200305200033.h4K0X6A21760@panix1.panix.com> X-Mailer: mailx (AT&T/BSD) 9.8 2001-04-01 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: SMTP stuff. Was: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 20:33:06 -0400 (EDT) | was it on purpose that this would extract everything *but* the awk code? oops. no. :/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 20 12:32:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 20 12:32:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5466 invoked by uid 1020); 20 May 2003 12:32:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5462 invoked from network); 20 May 2003 12:32:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 May 2003 12:32:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EE62719A84; Mon, 19 May 2003 23:32:17 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1D15A19A82 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 23:31:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <212715-20867>; Mon, 19 May 2003 23:31:20 -0400 Message-ID: <001901c31e80$46b4b140$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3EC8E3B6.CED22918@start.com.au> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 05:31:14 +0200 > I know but I was kind of hoping Mark would pop his head in > on this silly thread. Maybe, if we ask nicely, brucee will > have a word with him. for the record, it was my idea. after reading net.singles and hearing of this markov chain text generator i said, well let's snarf up some text, feed it into the markov chain, create a persona and post it straight back at them. this small detail seemed to have been forgotten when it got written up in the Scientific American. the implementation (iirc), of said idea, was brucee and rob. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 20 12:35:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 20 12:35:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5560 invoked by uid 1020); 20 May 2003 12:35:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5556 invoked from network); 20 May 2003 12:35:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 May 2003 12:35:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 82F4B19AC9; Mon, 19 May 2003 23:35:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 99B2E19A8B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 23:34:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO stinkhorn.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 650849 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 19 May 2003 22:37:20 -0500 Message-ID: <7bc5cb2c34392d7d85276768fdff3f42@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <001901c31e80$46b4b140$e3944251@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 20:34:11 -0700 > the implementation (iirc), of said idea, was brucee and rob. Don P. Mitchell had the markov program that inspired whoever had the original idea. The code we used was rewritten by brucee. I believe I wrote the shell script wrapper and, with brucee, created the account, mail box, etc. Brucee did most of the daily management of MVS's wit. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 20 12:39:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 20 12:39:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5790 invoked by uid 1020); 20 May 2003 12:39:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5786 invoked from network); 20 May 2003 12:39:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 May 2003 12:39:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6C19B19A8B; Mon, 19 May 2003 23:39:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B151F19AF7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 23:38:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <213020-20858>; Mon, 19 May 2003 23:38:30 -0400 Message-ID: <008f01c31e81$472494a0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <7bc5cb2c34392d7d85276768fdff3f42@mightycheese.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 05:38:27 +0200 > Don P. Mitchell had the markov program that inspired whoever had the > original idea. The code we used was rewritten by brucee. I believe I > wrote the shell script wrapper and, with brucee, created the account, > mail box, etc. Brucee did most of the daily management of MVS's wit. yup From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 20 13:21:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 20 13:21:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7558 invoked by uid 1020); 20 May 2003 13:21:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7553 invoked from network); 20 May 2003 13:21:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 May 2003 13:21:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E123819B0A; Tue, 20 May 2003 00:21:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A109C19AF4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 00:20:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557593-29031>; Tue, 20 May 2003 00:20:23 -0400 Message-ID: <010b01c31e87$20c05640$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 06:20:18 +0200 From: "George Bronnikov" > It's `A Love Affair With Cocaine' (same word in Russian - "roman"). > A fine book, really. The translator must have been a moron. roman -- same word in french. i read the english translation. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 20 13:30:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 20 13:30:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7982 invoked by uid 1020); 20 May 2003 13:30:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7978 invoked from network); 20 May 2003 13:30:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 May 2003 13:30:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8DC6C19AF4; Tue, 20 May 2003 00:30:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E275F199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 00:29:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4K4TGDT027177 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 May 2003 21:29:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <86bed3080d3e76f2c6ccbb65ab62fadf@centurytel.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: <7bc5cb2c34392d7d85276768fdff3f42@mightycheese.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 20:34:15 -0700 > Don P. Mitchell had the markov program that inspired whoever had the > original idea. The code we used was rewritten by brucee. I believe I > wrote the shell script wrapper and, with brucee, created the account, > mail box, etc. Brucee did most of the daily management of MVS's wit. A reprint of the SA article is in "The Magic Machine" book by Dewdney. In it, Dewdney says "Readers may also be interested in what is perhaps Mark V. Shaney's magnum opus: a 20-page commentary on the deconstructionist philosophy of Jean Boudrillard". I found a link to an old email by rob. MVS's dissertation sounds remarkably like some of the recent discussions on 9fans. Now I see how we ended up here. http://www.evolutionzone.com/kulturezone/c-g.writing/cgw.baudrillard.txt From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 20 14:33:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 20 14:33:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11038 invoked by uid 1020); 20 May 2003 14:33:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11034 invoked from network); 20 May 2003 14:33:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 May 2003 14:33:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8B8D919B24; Tue, 20 May 2003 01:33:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EDFD519B1A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 01:32:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h4K5XXJ21520 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 00:33:33 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <7bc5cb2c34392d7d85276768fdff3f42@mightycheese.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 00:33:33 -0500 (CDT) On Mon, 19 May 2003, rob pike, esq. wrote: > > the implementation (iirc), of said idea, was brucee and rob. > > Don P. Mitchell had the markov program that inspired whoever had the > original idea. The code we used was rewritten by brucee. I believe I > wrote the shell script wrapper and, with brucee, created the account, > mail box, etc. Brucee did most of the daily management of MVS's wit. While you guys are dropping names... If you run across any of the AmSci guys, especially Shawn, please say "Hi, from the Tesla folks. We're still building the lenses". -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 20 16:50:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 20 16:50:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17186 invoked by uid 1020); 20 May 2003 16:50:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17182 invoked from network); 20 May 2003 16:50:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 May 2003 16:50:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 08FAB199D7; Tue, 20 May 2003 03:50:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.184]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 6DB2F19B3F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 03:49:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-10-145.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.10.145 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 May 2003 07:49:08 -0000 Message-ID: <3EC9EBBE.2080406@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] 127 Research and Development: 127 Day! Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 03:47:58 -0500 Thought this might be interesting considering our recent discussion regarding Exception Handling: Every year, 127 Research chooses an interesting topic, presenting it to our correspondants just to keep them up-to-date with our vastly increasing prowess and drive. This year will be the first we bring the public our yearly analysis. Focused on topics that challenge an analyst's skill, 127 Day releases display our level of ability in auditing, exploitation, theory, and more. This year, 2003, represents 127 Research and Development's first public 127-Day release! Our release covers the remote exploitation of the prescan memory corruption vulnerability found in versions of Sendmail earlier than 8.12.9. In the paper, Don Bailey touches on some interesting techniques not yet seen in public. One of these techniques is the misaligned-opcode method of text segment manipulation. The paper is viewable online in HTML format, as well as down- loadable in portable Postscript. The exploit interface described in the report is also available at 127's website. http://www.7f.no-ip.com http://deadchildren.org Enjoy! Don Bailey 127 Research and Development From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 20 18:00:08 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 20 18:00:08 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19993 invoked by uid 1020); 20 May 2003 17:59:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19989 invoked from network); 20 May 2003 17:59:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 May 2003 17:59:48 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D983A19B31; Tue, 20 May 2003 04:58:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA2B619B31 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 04:57:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19I2oe-0000me-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 20 May 2003 09:49:48 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "plan9@itic.ca" Message-ID: <7458b557.0305191428.1cd78abb@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: Subject: Re: [9fans] writememimage slowness Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 08:49:41 GMT fst@centurytel.net (Skip Tavakkolian) wrote in message news:... > I am running into a problem when, after building a large Memimage > of some 22800 glyphs and trying to write it out, writememimage() > seems to run forever. The size of the Memimage is (22800×font_width, > font_height). > > Any ideas? writeimage() has shown excellent (immediate) results for 512*31*31 in CMAP8 but we prefer not to readsubfont() more than 0xFF glyphs at a time and then spare as much memory as possible. Is that a good idea to assemble such an amount of glyphs together ? Why not use Plan 9 ability to get font from many files ? 0x0000 0x007F Latin 0x0080 0x00FF next and so on rather than 0x0000 0x00FF Complete_font_file From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 20 18:00:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 20 18:00:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20047 invoked by uid 1020); 20 May 2003 18:00:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20043 invoked from network); 20 May 2003 18:00:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 May 2003 18:00:45 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F2B0619B55; Tue, 20 May 2003 04:58:23 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3A0A519A63 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 04:57:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19I2pA-0000oZ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 20 May 2003 09:50:20 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Adrian Tritschler Message-ID: Organization: Monash University Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT References: , <20030518231310.8395.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 08:49:54 GMT Scott Schwartz wrote: > | anyway, complaining to forged lines will just get the spammer into more grief, > | not less. > > On the contrary. Spammers have put my address on forged headers, and the > double bounces and direct complaints that I got did absolutely nothing > at all to discommode the spammers. Please don't also add forged Received > lines to the collatoral damage problem. Definitely. We've just spent most of the morning dealing with W32/Palyh-a [1]. It arrives in mail that purports to come from support@microsoft.com Klez was more fun, it picked random addresses from people's Micorsoft Outbreak address book to create its own to and from addresses. Amazing how many people _still_ run attachments that come in the mail. I wonder if I put a bottle on the ground labelled "drink me"... Adrian [1] http://www.sophos.com/virusinfo/analyses/w32palyha.html --------------------------------------------------------------- Adrian Tritschler mailto:Adrian.Tritschler@its.monash.edu.au Latitude 38°S, Longitude 145°E, Altitude 50m, Shoe size 44 --------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 20 18:01:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 20 18:01:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20101 invoked by uid 1020); 20 May 2003 18:01:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20096 invoked from network); 20 May 2003 18:01:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 May 2003 18:01:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0BF3D19B5C; Tue, 20 May 2003 04:58:35 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D448519A63 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 04:57:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19I2pA-0000of-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 20 May 2003 09:50:20 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Aharon Robbins Message-ID: Organization: Pioneer Consulting, Ltd. References: <200305191635.h4JGZD505069@panix1.panix.com>, <3EC94C72.7080304@proweb.co.uk> Subject: Re: SMTP stuff. Was: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 08:50:08 GMT In article <3EC94C72.7080304@proweb.co.uk>, matt <9fans@cse.psu.edu> wrote: >markp@panix.com wrote: > >>| Now I'm solving the "how to get the .awk out of the .ps" problem instead >> >>term% gs -q -dNODISPLAY -dNOBIND -dWRITESYSTEMDICT -dSIMPLE ps2ascii.ps >sendout3.ps quit.ps >> >>:) > >was it on purpose that this would extract everything *but* the awk code? I will email you the awk code under separate cover, later today. Or I can put it up for http if enough people want it. > > The program relies on a not-yet-released version of gawk > >I guess I'll have to wait until then, which is a shame because I'm a big >fan of awk and it's derivatives. Remember that I said that in 1999. Current gawk supports sockets. ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/gawk/gawk-3.1.2.tar.gz. 3.1.3 will be out, I hope, soon. In the meantime, enjoy. Arnold -- Aharon (Arnold) Robbins --- Pioneer Consulting Ltd. arnold@skeeve.com P.O. Box 354 Home Phone: +972 8 979-0381 Fax: +1 928 569 9018 Nof Ayalon Cell Phone: +972 51 297-545 D.N. Shimshon 99785 ISRAEL From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 20 20:15:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 20 20:15:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23605 invoked by uid 1020); 20 May 2003 20:15:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23601 invoked from network); 20 May 2003 20:15:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 May 2003 20:15:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 221D719B61; Tue, 20 May 2003 07:15:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D9F0E19B1F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 07:14:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19I4uX-000493-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 20 May 2003 12:04:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Anthony Mandic Message-ID: <3ECA0AAF.E25DD68C@start.com.au> Organization: Mandic Consulting Pty. Ltd. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <001901c31e80$46b4b140$e3944251@insultant.net>, <7bc5cb2c34392d7d85276768fdff3f42@mightycheese.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 11:03:51 GMT "rob pike, esq." wrote: > > > the implementation (iirc), of said idea, was brucee and rob. > > Don P. Mitchell had the markov program that inspired whoever had the > original idea. The code we used was rewritten by brucee. I believe I > wrote the shell script wrapper and, with brucee, created the account, > mail box, etc. Brucee did most of the daily management of MVS's wit. I wonder if he could run riot in slash dot? -am © 2003 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 20 20:37:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 20 20:37:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24243 invoked by uid 1020); 20 May 2003 20:37:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24239 invoked from network); 20 May 2003 20:37:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 May 2003 20:37:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E3FD219B66; Tue, 20 May 2003 07:37:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A4F7819A7A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 07:36:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <212941-17596>; Tue, 20 May 2003 07:33:21 -0400 Message-ID: <016501c31ec3$9ce03060$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: SMTP stuff. Was: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 13:33:18 +0200 > Current gawk supports sockets. progress? http://www.midnightoil.com/music/album-species.html#progress From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 20 21:31:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 20 21:31:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25554 invoked by uid 1020); 20 May 2003 21:31:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25549 invoked from network); 20 May 2003 21:31:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 May 2003 21:31:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4DEED19B34; Tue, 20 May 2003 08:31:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4D17319B34 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 08:30:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 97392 invoked from network); 20 May 2003 12:30:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO proweb.co.uk) (192.168.1.100) by juice.thebigchoice.com with SMTP; 20 May 2003 12:30:27 -0000 Message-ID: <3ECA1FE3.6030403@proweb.co.uk> From: matt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? References: <001901c31e80$46b4b140$e3944251@insultant.net>, <7bc5cb2c34392d7d85276768fdff3f42@mightycheese.com> <3ECA0AAF.E25DD68C@start.com.au> In-Reply-To: <3ECA0AAF.E25DD68C@start.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 13:30:27 +0100 > > > > I wonder if he could run riot in slash dot? > > Markov has posted enough auto-trolls already thanks From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 20 21:36:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 20 21:36:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25702 invoked by uid 1020); 20 May 2003 21:36:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25698 invoked from network); 20 May 2003 21:36:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 May 2003 21:36:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DEFFF19B7B; Tue, 20 May 2003 08:36:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 56C6119A63 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 08:35:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557190-29026>; Tue, 20 May 2003 08:34:54 -0400 Message-ID: <01d901c31ecc$35d4b540$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3ECA1FE3.6030403@proweb.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 14:34:51 +0200 > I wonder if he could run riot in slash dot? slash dot is a riot [LOL] From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 20 22:54:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 20 22:54:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27206 invoked by uid 1020); 20 May 2003 22:54:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27202 invoked from network); 20 May 2003 22:54:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 May 2003 22:54:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D3C719B73; Tue, 20 May 2003 09:54:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ED0B219AFC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 09:53:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue May 20 09:53:54 EDT 2003 Received: from 64.36.89.66 ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Tue May 20 09:53:51 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <4518ab0d543072867eca7cff67c96174@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] writememimage slowness From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <7458b557.0305191428.1cd78abb@posting.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 09:53:50 -0400 Even if writememimage finishes, you'll have a hell of a time using that font. Breaking it up will let it be loaded in pieces (paged in, as it were) rather than paying for one huge load all at once. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 20 23:25:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 20 23:25:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27800 invoked by uid 1020); 20 May 2003 23:25:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27796 invoked from network); 20 May 2003 23:25:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 May 2003 23:25:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8A2CC19B3B; Tue, 20 May 2003 10:25:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D4BA19B07 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 10:24:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4KEOeDT028147 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 07:24:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <90d55020493f10ff721688ae2f8c830c@centurytel.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] writememimage slowness From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: <4518ab0d543072867eca7cff67c96174@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 06:29:37 -0700 > Even if writememimage finishes, you'll have a hell > of a time using that font. Breaking it up will let it > be loaded in pieces (paged in, as it were) rather than > paying for one huge load all at once. bdf2subf does provide a flag to print the ranges and with a script around it can be invoked multiple times to extract the different ranges. So, as a practical matter this is not a problem. I was not sure if this slowness pointed to some flaw or if it was a design decision. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 21 02:50:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 21 02:50:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31782 invoked by uid 1020); 21 May 2003 02:50:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31777 invoked from network); 21 May 2003 02:50:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 May 2003 02:50:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6F1CA19AF7; Tue, 20 May 2003 13:50:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.dirac.net (unknown [151.196.211.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 673C9199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 13:49:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 16351 invoked by uid 60001); 20 May 2003 17:47:52 -0000 Message-ID: <20030520174751.16350.qmail@mail.dirac.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? From: Keith Nash Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 20 May 2003 17:47:51 -0000 > I wonder if he could run riot in slash dot? There is a random Slashdot story generator at http://bbspot.com/toys/slashtitle/index.html The authors missed a trick by not generating a few reader comments. Amongst the Slashdot posts with genuinely useful information there are always many more that comment on the license of the product featured in the story, its name, its license, the licensing history of the libraries that it calls, and of course its license. It should be very easy to autogenerate these flamefests, because they have such limited scope. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 21 07:04:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 21 07:04:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2604 invoked by uid 1020); 21 May 2003 07:04:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2600 invoked from network); 21 May 2003 07:04:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 May 2003 07:04:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3FDF319ACA; Tue, 20 May 2003 18:04:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from wilbur.25thandClement.com (wilbur.25thandclement.com [64.62.167.198]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F1485199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 18:03:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wilbur.25thandClement.com (william@localhost [IPv6:::1]) by wilbur.25thandClement.com (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h4KM35ah008602 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 15:03:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from william@localhost) by wilbur.25thandClement.com (8.12.7/8.12.6/Submit) id h4KM35gq013176 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 20 May 2003 15:03:05 -0700 (PDT) From: William Ahern To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20030520220305.GA28447@wilbur.25thandClement.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Subject: [9fans] [OT] domain socket support in open(2) on unix Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 15:03:05 -0700 i figured this was OT, but this might be the only group who can _hear_ what i'm asking. could you guys comment on the efficacy of adding client-side unix domain socket support to the unix open(2) library and/or system call? over on comp.unix.programmer i'm getting the obvious reponses, "domain sockets were meant as an adjunt to the more general network socket interface". fine. but my point is (well, and question as to the practicality of) that domain sockets can be appropriated to provide user-land support for _device_ style file objects. i'm just curious as to what your views are. useful? no utility because the standard shells won't reflect this capability? tia, Bill From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 21 07:43:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 21 07:43:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3253 invoked by uid 1020); 21 May 2003 07:43:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3249 invoked from network); 21 May 2003 07:43:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 May 2003 07:43:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 30FFF199BB; Tue, 20 May 2003 18:43:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 66089199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 18:42:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557501-19051>; Tue, 20 May 2003 18:42:20 -0400 Message-ID: <004101c31f21$104efe20$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030520220305.GA28447@wilbur.25thandClement.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] [OT] domain socket support in open(2) on unix MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 00:42:15 +0200 everything is a file ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 21 07:57:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 21 07:57:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3431 invoked by uid 1020); 21 May 2003 07:57:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3427 invoked from network); 21 May 2003 07:57:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 May 2003 07:57:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C9E0319B45; Tue, 20 May 2003 18:57:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0157319A76 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 18:56:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5302036b5e864aaa7241e70547b87609@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] [OT] domain socket support in open(2) on unix From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <20030520220305.GA28447@wilbur.25thandClement.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 15:55:46 -0700 It seems obvious that it should be possible to open existing Unix-domain sockets like any other file. They appear in the file-system namespace, after all. Other systems call them named pipes or mounted streams. It should be a trivial change to creat to create Unix-domain sockets. Of course, the whole range of socket-related system calls could be replaced with /net, dial and cs, and this would eliminate arcane and often buggy socket code from ordinary programs, allowing them to adapt without recompilation to, for example, IP V6. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 21 08:28:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 21 08:28:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3905 invoked by uid 1020); 21 May 2003 08:28:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3901 invoked from network); 21 May 2003 08:28:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 May 2003 08:28:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B4DCA19B16; Tue, 20 May 2003 19:28:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 532F819A26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 19:27:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4KNRCfD023581 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 17:27:12 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4KNRCIG024914 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 17:27:12 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] [OT] domain socket support in open(2) on unix In-Reply-To: <004101c31f21$104efe20$e3944251@insultant.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 17:27:12 -0600 (MDT) hey, interesting thing. We had a guy from Monash here -- Abramson. Very smart guy. He gave a good talk and described his work in grids. Guess what it turns out grid programmers want to use? Not GLOBUS_read_from_some_kinda_magic_globus_file_handle_on_odd_days. Nosirree. What they want, it turns out, is this: read write That's about it. Oh, wait, forgot the hard ones: open close On the open, they want it to look like a file name. Pretty wild, huh? Is there a place in here for Plan 9, possibly? :-) ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 21 08:33:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 21 08:33:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3974 invoked by uid 1020); 21 May 2003 08:33:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3970 invoked from network); 21 May 2003 08:33:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 May 2003 08:33:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D13CD19B3F; Tue, 20 May 2003 19:33:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1385B19B27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 19:32:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557141-19050>; Tue, 20 May 2003 19:32:15 -0400 Message-ID: <00a401c31f28$08d5fb60$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] [OT] domain socket support in open(2) on unix MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 01:32:08 +0200 > Oh, wait, forgot the hard ones: > open > close don't tease me ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 21 08:36:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 21 08:36:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4017 invoked by uid 1020); 21 May 2003 08:36:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4013 invoked from network); 21 May 2003 08:36:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 May 2003 08:36:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 11B5E19B4A; Tue, 20 May 2003 19:36:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8542A19B21 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 19:35:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h4KNcswZ031442 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 17:38:54 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h4KNcs3Q031438 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 17:38:54 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] [OT] domain socket support in open(2) on unix In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 17:38:54 -0600 (MDT) On Tue, 20 May 2003, ron minnich wrote: > Pretty wild, huh? Is there a place in here for Plan 9, possibly? :-) > absolutely not: plan 9 is a non-unix system, the license sucks and the community is closed and elitist. notice how none of those have anything to do with the technical merit of the operating system? andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 21 08:37:05 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 21 08:37:05 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4029 invoked by uid 1020); 21 May 2003 08:37:04 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4025 invoked from network); 21 May 2003 08:37:04 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 May 2003 08:37:04 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3692E19B4B; Tue, 20 May 2003 19:36:26 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9B3D119A26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 19:35:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] [OT] domain socket support in open(2) on unix In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 19:35:26 -0400 > Oh, wait, forgot the hard ones: > open > close They're not that bad. We can split the work. You do open, I'll do close. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 21 08:42:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 21 08:42:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4115 invoked by uid 1020); 21 May 2003 08:42:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4111 invoked from network); 21 May 2003 08:42:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 May 2003 08:42:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6CE2B19B62; Tue, 20 May 2003 19:42:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.179]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3D9C7199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 19:41:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-18-234.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.18.234 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 May 2003 23:41:49 -0000 Message-ID: <3ECACB05.7010002@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] [OT] domain socket support in open(2) on unix References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 19:40:37 -0500 > > >They're not that bad. We can split the work. >You do open, I'll do close. > No way, man. I heard it takes at *least* five hackers working round-the-clock to open a file descriptor. At Bell Labs this might be optimized to four. I'm not sure, I dont' have the statistics... > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 21 08:43:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 21 08:43:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4126 invoked by uid 1020); 21 May 2003 08:43:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4122 invoked from network); 21 May 2003 08:43:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 May 2003 08:43:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5CEAD19B53; Tue, 20 May 2003 19:43:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D0415199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 19:42:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557939-19040>; Tue, 20 May 2003 19:42:18 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c31f29$71501620$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] [OT] domain socket support in open(2) on unix MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 01:42:13 +0200 > You do open, I'll do close. can we do it in texas? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 21 09:10:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 21 09:10:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4953 invoked by uid 1020); 21 May 2003 09:10:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4949 invoked from network); 21 May 2003 09:10:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 May 2003 09:10:42 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9640D19B2C; Tue, 20 May 2003 20:09:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A068A19A26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 20:08:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA24032 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 20:08:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h4L08s512689 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 20:08:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305210008.h4L08s512689@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] [OT] domain socket support in open(2) on unix In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 21 May 2003 01:42:13 +0200." <000b01c31f29$71501620$e3944251@insultant.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 20:08:53 -0400 Hey, I'll be in Texas. Let me get in on something. I know, I'll do name caching.... - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 21 09:47:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 21 09:47:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6607 invoked by uid 1020); 21 May 2003 09:47:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6603 invoked from network); 21 May 2003 09:47:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 May 2003 09:47:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E75519B64; Tue, 20 May 2003 20:47:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 12EAB19AEC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 20:46:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h4L0kqs31631 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 19:46:52 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Re: [Way OT] domain socket support in open(2) on unix Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 19:46:51 -0500 (CDT) On Tue, 20 May 2003, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > On Tue, 20 May 2003, ron minnich wrote: > > > Pretty wild, huh? Is there a place in here for Plan 9, possibly? :-) > > > > absolutely not: plan 9 is a non-unix system, the license sucks and the > community is closed and elitist. > > notice how none of those have anything to do with the technical merit of the > operating system? Man cannot live by bread alone. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 21 10:07:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 21 10:07:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7510 invoked by uid 1020); 21 May 2003 10:07:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7506 invoked from network); 21 May 2003 10:07:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 May 2003 10:07:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F2CF19B6F; Tue, 20 May 2003 21:07:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7D84219A26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 21:06:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] [OT] domain socket support in open(2) on unix Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 10:08:31 +0900 > absolutely not: plan 9 is a non-unix system, the license sucks and the > community is closed and elitist. > > notice how none of those have anything to do with the technical merit of the > operating system? They don't need to pay too much attention to the present status as is, which may lead deep innovation in a sense of technology. Am I wrong? ? Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 21 10:20:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 21 10:20:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8022 invoked by uid 1020); 21 May 2003 10:20:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8018 invoked from network); 21 May 2003 10:20:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 May 2003 10:20:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B43519B21; Tue, 20 May 2003 21:20:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BEB3A19B4D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 21:19:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h4L1NgwZ031503 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 19:23:42 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h4L1Nglr031499 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 19:23:42 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] [OT] domain socket support in open(2) on unix In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 19:23:42 -0600 (MDT) On Wed, 21 May 2003 okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote: > They don't need to pay too much attention to the present status as is, > which may lead deep innovation in a sense of technology. > Am I wrong? ? > I have no idea, really.. I am just reiterating what I've heard over the past three years. If you're suggesting that Plan 9 may have a higher future return in terms of research and development than UNIX, then I hope you are right... In my opinion, it's just history repeating -- "buying IBM never fired anybody" (wasn't that what they used to say a few decades ago?). s/IBM/Lunix/, s/buying/using/. andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 21 10:35:06 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 21 10:35:06 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8635 invoked by uid 1020); 21 May 2003 10:35:05 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8631 invoked from network); 21 May 2003 10:35:05 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 May 2003 10:35:05 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2C8D419B6A; Tue, 20 May 2003 21:34:25 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0199819A64 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 21:33:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3274951cc49c60c7550b03af252df37f@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] [OT] domain socket support in open(2) on unix From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 18:33:51 -0700 `Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM' was the old saying. I think the modern equivalent of IBM in that saying is Wintel, with Linux gaining fast in the server market. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 21 10:35:12 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 21 10:35:12 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8624 invoked by uid 1020); 21 May 2003 10:35:00 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8595 invoked from network); 21 May 2003 10:34:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 May 2003 10:34:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8D42219B4D; Tue, 20 May 2003 21:34:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A597A19B6A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 21:33:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4L1XffD013009 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 19:33:41 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4L1XfIG029232 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 19:33:41 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] [OT] domain socket support in open(2) on unix In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 19:33:41 -0600 (MDT) On Tue, 20 May 2003, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > In my opinion, it's just history repeating -- "buying IBM never fired > anybody" (wasn't that what they used to say a few decades ago?). don't give up. The OSes we curse now (Unix and Linux) are what we wanted to have 10 and 20 years ago, when we were cursing miserable vendor Oses. So, in the best case, you can look forward to the day when we're all using Plan 9 and cursing our luck for being stuck with it. Or you're using it and liking it and all these college students who look 6 years old are telling you (respectfully, of course): "Dr. Mirtchovski, you're so old school. Can I bring you your walker? Are your teeth in today?" That's called 'progress'. Feel better? ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 21 11:37:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 21 11:37:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11396 invoked by uid 1020); 21 May 2003 11:37:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11392 invoked from network); 21 May 2003 11:37:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 May 2003 11:37:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1E65219B78; Tue, 20 May 2003 22:37:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 438F519B68 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 22:36:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] [OT] domain socket support in open(2) on unix Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 11:38:25 +0900 > past three years. If you're suggesting that Plan 9 may have a higher > future return in terms of research and development than UNIX, then I > hope you are right... I don't think that Plan 9 may have a higher future in the sense of marketting. In that sense, Windows have spreaded and controled over all the people in this real world. No other operating system is there such that. Then, are you satisfied with this situation? I have confidence that you ain't, because you are here. There may be still people who want open and clear operating system for their purpose... Linux may be the Windows in the Unices world. ? Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 21 11:47:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 21 11:47:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11856 invoked by uid 1020); 21 May 2003 11:47:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11852 invoked from network); 21 May 2003 11:47:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 May 2003 11:47:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BBCC419ABB; Tue, 20 May 2003 22:47:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from RESLAB3 (unknown [207.35.158.62]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2AC9919A26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 22:46:24 -0400 (EDT) From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="CSmtpMsgPart123X456_000_062ED5BF" Message-Id: <20030521024624.2AC9919A26@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] Your password Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 22:53:36 --0400 This is a multipart message in MIME format --CSmtpMsgPart123X456_000_062ED5BF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All information is in the attached file. --CSmtpMsgPart123X456_000_062ED5BF-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 21 12:47:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 21 12:47:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14273 invoked by uid 1020); 21 May 2003 12:47:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14269 invoked from network); 21 May 2003 12:47:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 May 2003 12:47:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 730D819B84; Tue, 20 May 2003 23:47:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 51C9819B84 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 23:46:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h4L3lah00777; Tue, 20 May 2003 22:47:36 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: , In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] The Future of OS's & P9 (was: Re: [OT] domain socket support in open(2) on unix) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 22:47:36 -0500 (CDT) On Wed, 21 May 2003 okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote: > still people who want open and clear operating system for their purpose... > Linux may be the Windows in the Unices world. ? The one overriding character of every comment in this thread is monotonicity. It's one or the other but not both. How sad. You'd think people would realize that there is -no one answer-. Go re-read your economic and political theory books. Pay attention to jewels like Federalist #10 or Hayek. The problem is fundamentaly one of biology, not technology. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 21 13:49:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 21 13:49:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17038 invoked by uid 1020); 21 May 2003 13:49:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17034 invoked from network); 21 May 2003 13:49:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 May 2003 13:49:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C35CB19B7C; Wed, 21 May 2003 00:49:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C6F2619A9E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 00:48:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h4L4lBnp027788; Wed, 21 May 2003 06:47:13 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h4L4lAgE027787; Wed, 21 May 2003 06:47:10 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: hangar18-general@open-forge.org, hell@einstein.ssz.com Subject: Re: [9fans] The Future of OS's & P9 (was: Re: [OT] domain socket support in open(2) on unix) Message-ID: <20030521064709.U7647@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, hangar18-general@open-forge.org, hell@einstein.ssz.com References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from Jim Choate on Tue, May 20, 2003 at 10:47:36PM -0500 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 06:47:09 +0200 On Tue, May 20, 2003 at 10:47:36PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > > The problem is fundamentaly one of biology, not technology. > Or literacy, but I digress. This community isn't going to solve a biology problem. We can address technological ones, however, give or take occasional pokes from the sidelines. I vote that we stick to what we do best. My forays into biological manipulation I limit to reproductive activities. I'm sure they don't interest anyone else on this list and even if they did, I believe in being discrete :-) ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 21 17:43:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 21 17:43:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28120 invoked by uid 1020); 21 May 2003 17:43:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28116 invoked from network); 21 May 2003 17:43:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 May 2003 17:43:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B3E4D19B8F; Wed, 21 May 2003 04:43:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2C6D319B88 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 04:42:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19IOzv-0003ha-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 21 May 2003 09:30:55 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Aharon Robbins Message-ID: Organization: Pioneer Consulting, Ltd. References: , <016501c31ec3$9ce03060$e3944251@insultant.net> Subject: Re: SMTP stuff. Was: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 08:30:35 GMT In article <016501c31ec3$9ce03060$e3944251@insultant.net>, boyd, rounin <9fans@cse.psu.edu> wrote: >> Current gawk supports sockets. > >progress? > > http://www.midnightoil.com/music/album-species.html#progress Why don't you check out www.tuhs.org? There are lots of PDP-11 and Vax emulators available, and you can go back to running straight V7 exactly as Ken and Dennis bequeathed it to you from On High. You can probably even pick up real PDP-11 hardware pretty cheap these days, too. -- Aharon (Arnold) Robbins --- Pioneer Consulting Ltd. arnold@skeeve.com P.O. Box 354 Home Phone: +972 8 979-0381 Fax: +1 928 569 9018 Nof Ayalon Cell Phone: +972 51 297-545 D.N. Shimshon 99785 ISRAEL From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 21 20:13:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 21 20:13:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31980 invoked by uid 1020); 21 May 2003 20:13:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31976 invoked from network); 21 May 2003 20:13:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 May 2003 20:13:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1674919BB2; Wed, 21 May 2003 07:13:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E49A019BB0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 07:12:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19IRKZ-0006pv-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 21 May 2003 12:00:23 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "boyd, rounin" Message-ID: <3ecb584e$0$28113$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net> Organization: Noos References: , <20030521064709.U7647@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] The Future of OS's & P9 (was: Re: [OT] domain socket support in open(2) on unix) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 10:59:52 GMT "Lucio De Re" a écrit dans le message de news:20030521064709.U7647@cackle.proxima.alt.za... > I vote that we stick to what we do best. John Shaft [Samuel L. Jackson to Peoples Hernandez:]: You're a 2 bit, 3 block, drug dealer ... stick to what you know you got my vote From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 21 20:28:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 21 20:28:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32310 invoked by uid 1020); 21 May 2003 20:28:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32306 invoked from network); 21 May 2003 20:28:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 May 2003 20:28:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0255819BB4; Wed, 21 May 2003 07:28:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6124F19BB4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 07:27:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h4LBRvp04282; Wed, 21 May 2003 06:27:57 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: , Subject: Re: [9fans] The Future of OS's & P9 (was: Re: [OT] domain socket support in open(2) on unix) In-Reply-To: <20030521064709.U7647@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 06:27:57 -0500 (CDT) On Wed, 21 May 2003, Lucio De Re wrote: > On Tue, May 20, 2003 at 10:47:36PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > > > > The problem is fundamentaly one of biology, not technology. > > > Or literacy, but I digress. Another biology problem I see. > This community isn't going to solve a biology problem. We can > address technological ones, False distinction on your part. Without biology there is no technology. Your view however is an example of a biological problem with this community. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 21 23:33:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 21 23:33:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2978 invoked by uid 1020); 21 May 2003 23:33:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2974 invoked from network); 21 May 2003 23:33:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 May 2003 23:33:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C6F7319BD7; Wed, 21 May 2003 10:33:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA7D619BD5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 10:31:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <699e9f18f49afd37c415b27813fb0e45@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Fco.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] changes in 9load Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 16:31:58 +0200 Hi, this change makes two things: 1- lets you use sections in 9load to define environment variables 2- pass the boot information already parsed form 9load to the kernel. *** This means that this 9load wont boot properly an old kernel. *** An old 9load wont work with a kernel changed by these diffs. *** An old kernel wont work with a 9load changed by these diffs. Regarding 1, It's useful for things like: plan9.ini: ... [!venticonf] # A file in $venticonf for the boot program index oldworm isect /dev/fs/other1 arenas /dev/fs/other boot.rc: ... # start venti from conf in plan9.ini venti -c /env/venticonf Regarding 2, I thought it was a good time to make the change. I include first the changes for 9load. Near the end you can find the changes for /sys/src/9/pc/main.c. hth diff -n /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc /sys/src/boot/pc diff -n /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/apm.c /sys/src/boot/pc/apm.c /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/apm.c:13,14 c /sys/src/boot/pc/apm.c:13,17 < if(getconf("apm0") && apm.haveinfo) < changeconf("apm0=ax=%x ebx=%x cx=%x dx=%x di=%x esi=%x\n", --- > char buf[128]; > char* p; > > if(getconf("apm0") && apm.haveinfo){ > p = buf + sprint(buf, "ax=%x ebx=%x cx=%x dx=%x di=%x esi=%x", /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/apm.c:15 a /sys/src/boot/pc/apm.c:19,21 > *p = 0; > changeconf("apm0", buf); > } diff -n /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/bcom.c /sys/src/boot/pc/bcom.c /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/bcom.c:439 c /sys/src/boot/pc/bcom.c:439 < addconf(char*, ...) --- > addconf(char*, char*) diff -n /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c /sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:14 c /sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:14 < * There are 3584 bytes available at CONFADDR. --- > * There are 0x800 bytes available at CONFADDR (up to CPU0PDB). /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:18 a /sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:19 > /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:21,22 c /sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:22 < #define BOOTARGSLEN (3584-0x200-BOOTLINELEN) < #define MAXCONF 100 --- > #define BOOTARGSLEN (0x800-BOOTLINELEN) /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:24,26 c /sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:24,37 < static char *confname[MAXCONF]; < static char *confval[MAXCONF]; < static int nconf; --- > /* > * This must match the struct of the same name in the loaded kernel > */ > #define MAXCONF 64 > typedef struct Bootconf { > char id[8]; > int nconf; > char *name[MAXCONF]; > char *val[MAXCONF]; > char args[1]; > } Bootconf; > static char* bootargsend; > static Bootconf*bootargs = (Bootconf*)BOOTARGS; > static int confparsed= 0; /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:221 c /sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:232,246 < --- > // add blocks to define environment files > for(i=0; i < nmblock; i++){ > mb = &mblock[i]; > if (mb->name[0] != '!') > continue; > p += sprint(p, "%s=", mb->name); > // ugly hack: we later translate any \1 > // to a \n. Thats how we get multiple lines into > // a single environment variable. > for(n = mb->start; n < mb->end; n++){ > p += sprint(p, "%s", line[n]); > *p++ = 1; > } > p += sprint(p, "\n"); > } /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:274 a /sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:300,304 > if (!confparsed){ > if (debug) > print("warning: ignored getconf: %s\n", name); > return nil; > } /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:276,277 c /sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:306,307 < for(i = 0; i < nconf; i++) < if(cistrcmp(confname[i], name) == 0) --- > for(i = 0; i < bootargs->nconf; i++) > if(cistrcmp(bootargs->name[i], name) == 0) /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:284,286 c /sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:314,316 < for(i = 0; i < nconf; i++) < if(cistrcmp(confname[i], name) == 0) < print("%d. %s\n", ++nmatch, confval[i]); --- > for(i = 0; i < bootargs->nconf; i++) > if(cistrcmp(bootargs->name[i], name) == 0) > print("%d. %s\n", ++nmatch, bootargs->val[i]); /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:293,294 c /sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:323,324 < for(i = 0; i < nconf; i++) < if(cistrcmp(confname[i], name) == 0) --- > for(i = 0; i < bootargs->nconf; i++) > if(cistrcmp(bootargs->name[i], name) == 0) /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:296 c /sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:326 < return confval[i]; --- > return bootargs->val[i]; /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:300,302 c /sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:330,332 < for(i = 0; i < nconf; i++) < if(cistrcmp(confname[i], name) == 0) < return confval[i]; --- > for(i = 0; i < bootargs->nconf; i++) > if(cistrcmp(bootargs->name[i], name) == 0) > return bootargs->val[i]; /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:312 c /sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:342 < addconf(char *fmt, ...) --- > addconf(char* var, char *val) /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:314 c /sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:344,354 < donprint(BOOTARGS+strlen(BOOTARGS), BOOTARGS+BOOTARGSLEN, fmt, (&fmt+1)); --- > if (!confparsed){ > print("warning: ignored addconf: %s=%s\n", var, val); > return; > } > bootargs->name[bootargs->nconf] = bootargsend; > bootargsend += sprint(bootargsend, "%s", var); > *bootargsend++ = 0; > bootargs->val[bootargs->nconf] = bootargsend; > bootargsend += sprint(bootargsend, "%s", val); > *bootargsend++ = 0; > bootargs->nconf++; /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:318 c /sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:358 < changeconf(char *fmt, ...) --- > changeconf(char *var, char* val) /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:320 c /sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:360 < char *p, *q, pref[20], buf[128]; --- > int i; /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:322,344 c /sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:362,378 < donprint(buf, buf+sizeof buf, fmt, (&fmt+1)); < strncpy(pref+1, buf, 19); < pref[19] = '\0'; < if(p = strchr(pref, '=')) < *(p+1) = '\0'; < else < print("warning: did not change %s in plan9.ini\n", buf); < < /* find old line by looking for \nwhat= */ < pref[0] = '\n'; < if(strncmp(BOOTARGS, pref+1, strlen(pref+1)) == 0) < p = BOOTARGS; < else if(p = strstr(BOOTARGS, pref)) < p++; < else < p = nil; < < /* move rest of args up, deleting what= line. */ < if(p != nil && (q = strchr(p, '\n')) != nil) < memmove(p, q+1, strlen(q+1)+1); < < /* add replacement to end */ < addconf("%s", buf); --- > if (!confparsed){ > print("warning: ignored changeconf: %s=%s\n", var, val); > return; > } > for(i = 0; i < bootargs->nconf; i++){ > if (strcmp(bootargs->name[i], var) == 0) > break; > } > if (i == bootargs->nconf){ > bootargs->name[i] = bootargsend; > bootargsend += sprint(bootargsend, "%s", var); > *bootargsend++ = 0; > bootargs->nconf++; > } > bootargs->val[i] = bootargsend; > bootargsend += sprint(bootargsend, "%s", val); > *bootargsend++ = 0; /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:420,435 c /sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:454,458 < < /* < * Keep a copy. < * We could change this to pass the parsed strings < * to the booted programme instead of the raw < * string, then it only gets done once. < */ < if(strncmp(cp, id, sizeof(id))){ < memmove(BOOTARGS, id, sizeof(id)); < if(n+1+sizeof(id) >= BOOTARGSLEN) < n -= sizeof(id); < memmove(BOOTARGS+sizeof(id), cp, n+1); < } < else < memmove(BOOTARGS, cp, n+1); < --- > memmove(bootargs->id, id, sizeof(id)); > memmove(bootargs->args, cp, n+1); > bootargsend = bootargs->args + n+1; > bootargs->nconf = 0; > cp = bootargs->args; /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:437 a /sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:461,466 > if(*line[i] == '!'){ // a file in a > line[i]++; // variable. > for(q = line[i]; *q; q++) > if (*q == 1) // ugly hack > *q = '\n'; // see parsemenu. > } /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:444,446 c /sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:473,475 < confname[nconf] = line[i]; < confval[nconf] = cp; < nconf++; --- > bootargs->name[bootargs->nconf] = line[i]; > bootargs->val[bootargs->nconf] = cp; > bootargs->nconf++; /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:447 a /sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:477 > confparsed = 1; /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:483,484 c /sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:513,514 < for(n = 0; n < nconf; n++){ < if(cistrncmp(confname[n], cc, NAMELEN)) --- > for(n = 0; n < bootargs->nconf; n++){ > if(cistrncmp(bootargs->name[n], cc, NAMELEN)) /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:487 c /sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c:517 < p = confval[n]; --- > p = bootargs->val[n]; diff -n /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/devsd.c /sys/src/boot/pc/devsd.c /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/devsd.c:431 a /sys/src/boot/pc/devsd.c:432,434 > char name[48]; > char val[128]; > char *bp; /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/devsd.c:440,441 c /sys/src/boot/pc/devsd.c:443,445 < < addconf("%spart=", unit->name); --- > bp = name + sprint(name, "%spart", unit->name); > *bp = 0; > bp = val; /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/devsd.c:443 c /sys/src/boot/pc/devsd.c:447 < addconf("%s%s %ld %ld", i==1 ? "" : "/", pp->name, --- > bp += sprint(bp, "%s%s %ld %ld", i==1 ? "" : "/", pp->name, /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/devsd.c:445 c /sys/src/boot/pc/devsd.c:449,450 < addconf("\n"); --- > *bp = 0; > addconf(name,val); diff -n /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/fns.h /sys/src/boot/pc/fns.h /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/fns.h:2 c /sys/src/boot/pc/fns.h:2 < void addconf(char*, ...); --- > void addconf(char*, char*); /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/fns.h:15 c /sys/src/boot/pc/fns.h:15 < void changeconf(char*, ...); --- > void changeconf(char*, char*); diff -n /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/load.c /sys/src/boot/pc/load.c /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/load.c:209 c /sys/src/boot/pc/load.c:209 < if(mp->flag & Fini){ --- > if((mp->flag & Fini)){ /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/load.c:214 d /sys/src/boot/pc/load.c:213 < /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/load.c:238 a /sys/src/boot/pc/load.c:238 > Medium *inimp; /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/load.c:242 a /sys/src/boot/pc/load.c:243 > mp = nil; /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/load.c:255 a /sys/src/boot/pc/load.c:257 > inimp = nil; /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/load.c:260,262 c /sys/src/boot/pc/load.c:262,263 < print("using %s!%s!%s\n", mp->name, mp->part, mp->ini); < dotini(mp->inifs); < break; --- > if (inimp == nil) > inimp = mp; /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/boot/pc/load.c:263 a /sys/src/boot/pc/load.c:265,268 > } > if (inimp != nil){ > print("using %s!%s!%s\n", mp->name, mp->part, mp->ini); > dotini(inimp->inifs); This is a change in the manual page. diff -n /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/man/8/plan9.ini /sys/man/8/plan9.ini /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/man/8/plan9.ini:770 a /sys/man/8/plan9.ini:771,775 > .LP > Any block whose name begins with "!" is special. It defines > a environment variable of the same name (without the "!"). The value > of the variable is the text of the block. This feature can be > used to supply small configuration files via environment variables. These are the diffs for main.c : diff -n /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/9/pc/main.c /sys/src/9/pc/main.c /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/9/pc/main.c:16,18 c /sys/src/9/pc/main.c:16 < * This will turn into a structure as more is done by the boot loader < * (e.g. why parse the .ini file twice?). < * There are 3584 bytes available at CONFADDR. --- > * There are 0x800 bytes available at CONFADDR. /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/9/pc/main.c:19 a /sys/src/9/pc/main.c:18 > /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/9/pc/main.c:23 c /sys/src/9/pc/main.c:22,26 < #define BOOTARGSLEN (4096-0x200-BOOTLINELEN) --- > #define BOOTARGSLEN (0x800-BOOTLINELEN) > > /* > * This must match the struct of the same name in the loaded kernel > */ /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/9/pc/main.c:24 a /sys/src/9/pc/main.c:28,34 > typedef struct Bootconf { > char id[8]; > int nconf; > char *name[MAXCONF]; > char *val[MAXCONF]; > char args[1]; > } Bootconf; /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/9/pc/main.c:25 a /sys/src/9/pc/main.c:36,37 > static Bootconf* bootconf = (Bootconf*)BOOTARGS; > /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/9/pc/main.c:28,30 d /sys/src/9/pc/main.c:39 < char *confname[MAXCONF]; < char *confval[MAXCONF]; < int nconf; /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/9/pc/main.c:33,37 d /sys/src/9/pc/main.c:41 < static void < options(void) < { < long i, n; < char *cp, *line[MAXCONF], *p, *q; /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/9/pc/main.c:39,71 d /sys/src/9/pc/main.c:42 < /* < * parse configuration args from dos file plan9.ini < */ < cp = BOOTARGS; /* where b.com leaves its config */ < cp[BOOTARGSLEN-1] = 0; < < /* < * Strip out '\r', change '\t' -> ' '. < */ < p = cp; < for(q = cp; *q; q++){ < if(*q == '\r') < continue; < if(*q == '\t') < *q = ' '; < *p++ = *q; < } < *p = 0; < < n = getfields(cp, line, MAXCONF, 1, "\n"); < for(i = 0; i < n; i++){ < if(*line[i] == '#') < continue; < cp = strchr(line[i], '='); < if(cp == nil) < continue; < *cp++ = '\0'; < confname[nconf] = line[i]; < confval[nconf] = cp; < nconf++; < } < } < /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/9/pc/main.c:76 d /sys/src/9/pc/main.c:46 < options(); /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/9/pc/main.c:182,185 c /sys/src/9/pc/main.c:152,155 < for(i = 0; i < nconf; i++){ < if(confname[i][0] != '*') < ksetenv(confname[i], confval[i], 0); < ksetenv(confname[i], confval[i], 1); --- > for(i = 0; i < bootconf->nconf; i++){ > if(bootconf->name[i][0] != '*') > ksetenv(bootconf->name[i], bootconf->val[i], 0); > ksetenv(bootconf->name[i], bootconf->val[i], 1); /n/dump/2003/0515/sys/src/9/pc/main.c:307,309 c /sys/src/9/pc/main.c:277,279 < for(i = 0; i < nconf; i++) < if(cistrcmp(confname[i], name) == 0) < return confval[i]; --- > for(i = 0; i < bootconf->nconf; i++) > if(cistrcmp(bootconf->name[i], name) == 0) > return bootconf->val[i]; From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 21 23:59:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 21 23:59:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3313 invoked by uid 1020); 21 May 2003 23:59:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3309 invoked from network); 21 May 2003 23:59:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 May 2003 23:59:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 98A6119BEE; Wed, 21 May 2003 10:59:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1822619BB0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 10:59:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <21b549489a519256bb545fd1ee7b3a56@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] changes in 9load In-Reply-To: <699e9f18f49afd37c415b27813fb0e45@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 10:58:58 -0400 I might. I will check tonight. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 00:02:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 00:02:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3367 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 00:02:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3363 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 00:02:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 00:02:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8E29D19BE4; Wed, 21 May 2003 11:02:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 715C719BF5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 11:01:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <01e7742448008afaaec0acf79079d55a@plan9.escet.urjc.es> From: Fco.J.Ballesteros To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] changes in 9load In-Reply-To: <21b549489a519256bb545fd1ee7b3a56@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-egbdskioejiaqorpxzehbmgiye" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 17:00:58 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-egbdskioejiaqorpxzehbmgiye Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you or anyone else want the whole files instead of diffs, let me know. --upas-egbdskioejiaqorpxzehbmgiye Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Wed May 21 16:59:32 MDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 98A6119BEE; Wed, 21 May 2003 10:59:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1822619BB0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 10:59:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <21b549489a519256bb545fd1ee7b3a56@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] changes in 9load In-Reply-To: <699e9f18f49afd37c415b27813fb0e45@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 10:58:58 -0400 I might. I will check tonight. --upas-egbdskioejiaqorpxzehbmgiye-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 00:23:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 00:23:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3612 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 00:23:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3608 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 00:23:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 00:23:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A029019BC5; Wed, 21 May 2003 11:23:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7FEF719ABF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 11:22:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <378f47e82d876408e51c03e6eb666d80@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] changes in 9load In-Reply-To: <01e7742448008afaaec0acf79079d55a@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 11:22:24 -0400 [The "I might. I will check tonight." was a response to a different, private email from Nemo. Sorry. Here's a real response to make up for it.] I'd rather not see the multiline environment variable hack go into plan9.ini. (Though if it did, I'd name the sections [$var] instead of [!var].) Plan9.ini used to be this really complex mess that you had to fiddle with quite a bit to get your system to boot. Now it's this really complex mess that you only have to fiddle with a small amount to get your system to boot. A plan9.ini for a typical configuration only needs to set mouseport, vgasize, and monitor. All three of these could be stored in the file system proper instead, making plan9.ini completely optional. I haven't done this because I'd rather see the variables go away entirely. If we autodetect the mouse and probe the video card for monitor and a good vgasize, that gets us most of the way there. If aux/vga can handle resizing the screen on the fly, we're all the way there. There will always be a plan9.ini. There has to be some way to tell the kernel things that it doesn't know how to learn for itself. But I want to see plan9.ini get more and more optional. Unless you're doing something complicated, you shouldn't have to know about it. One eventual goal for fossil is to replace kfs. This means everyone will be running fossil (with or without venti). Needing to put configuration info in plan9.ini suddenly makes plan9.ini a lot less optional. Thus I am fairly opposed to having it there. Instead, I would like to see the configuration information for venti and fossil put at the beginning of their disks, so that you can just tell it the disk and you're off and running. With some sensible conventions naming the disks we could boot an IDE system with no plan9.ini at all. Long ago, plan9.ini had syntax for defining multiline environment variables. It was dropped at one point because it wasn't found to be generally useful. I hope this continues to be the case. If we need to store that much in an environment variable, it means we've built the system in such a way that it requires too much configuration. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 00:28:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 00:28:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3681 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 00:28:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3677 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 00:28:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 00:28:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D716019BCC; Wed, 21 May 2003 11:28:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.183]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1684A19AC2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 11:27:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-18-234.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.18.234 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 May 2003 15:27:57 -0000 Message-ID: <3ECBA8C4.9010103@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] changes in 9load References: <378f47e82d876408e51c03e6eb666d80@plan9.bell-labs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 11:26:44 -0500 > > > If we need to store that much in an environment >variable, it means we've built the system in such a way that >it requires too much configuration. > I agree, 100% > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 00:48:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 00:48:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4005 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 00:48:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4001 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 00:48:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 00:48:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0ECA619BED; Wed, 21 May 2003 11:48:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E706119BC9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 11:47:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557559-30583>; Wed, 21 May 2003 11:46:37 -0400 Message-ID: <003b01c31fb0$29268000$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <378f47e82d876408e51c03e6eb666d80@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [9fans] VAIO ATI RAGE MOBILITY-M1 AGP 1024x768x16 lcd display Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 17:46:34 +0200 i have a VAIO with an ATI RAGE MOBILITY-M1 AGP 1024x768x16 lcd display. i just wanna turn it into a simple character mode server [fs/firewall/auth/etc]. what is the magic i need to construct the boot diskette? and yes, it's another USB floppy install, but i can cope with that. all i really need is cga, but to do the install, its a bit 'sporty'. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 01:00:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 01:00:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4192 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 01:00:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4188 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 01:00:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 01:00:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7EF6F19BFA; Wed, 21 May 2003 12:00:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4C3DC19BC9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 11:59:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7abfedf4f4faab48978e00e252c29661@plan9.escet.urjc.es> From: Fco.J.Ballesteros To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] changes in 9load In-Reply-To: <378f47e82d876408e51c03e6eb666d80@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-qdjpfdlnenrkpuiapklcdraynb" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 17:57:35 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-qdjpfdlnenrkpuiapklcdraynb Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wanted the variables to start fossil/venti without having to recompile the kernel. I also would prefer to put the conf in the disks they're using (In fact I think I suggested it some time ago). The thing is that I wouldn't like to change fossil/venti, because I don't know them that well, and I'd prefer that change to be well-done (for example, I'd expect the changed fossil/venti to be able to use partitions from old ones). But in the mean time, I think I'll keep the support for multiline vars (which I'll be using just in our file server). I'm quite tired of recompiling the kernel because of a change in the configuration. I think the same can be the case for others, althought of course that means that their fs plan9.ini would be `mandatory' as well. But it's likely we all agree that once there's no need to use those configuration files, multiline vars would become useless. Regarding the other change, it seems better to parse the arguments once and pass them already parsed to the kernel. thanks for your reply --upas-qdjpfdlnenrkpuiapklcdraynb Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Wed May 21 17:23:27 MDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A029019BC5; Wed, 21 May 2003 11:23:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7FEF719ABF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 11:22:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <378f47e82d876408e51c03e6eb666d80@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] changes in 9load In-Reply-To: <01e7742448008afaaec0acf79079d55a@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 11:22:24 -0400 [The "I might. I will check tonight." was a response to a different, private email from Nemo. Sorry. Here's a real response to make up for it.] I'd rather not see the multiline environment variable hack go into plan9.ini. (Though if it did, I'd name the sections [$var] instead of [!var].) Plan9.ini used to be this really complex mess that you had to fiddle with quite a bit to get your system to boot. Now it's this really complex mess that you only have to fiddle with a small amount to get your system to boot. A plan9.ini for a typical configuration only needs to set mouseport, vgasize, and monitor. All three of these could be stored in the file system proper instead, making plan9.ini completely optional. I haven't done this because I'd rather see the variables go away entirely. If we autodetect the mouse and probe the video card for monitor and a good vgasize, that gets us most of the way there. If aux/vga can handle resizing the screen on the fly, we're all the way there. There will always be a plan9.ini. There has to be some way to tell the kernel things that it doesn't know how to learn for itself. But I want to see plan9.ini get more and more optional. Unless you're doing something complicated, you shouldn't have to know about it. One eventual goal for fossil is to replace kfs. This means everyone will be running fossil (with or without venti). Needing to put configuration info in plan9.ini suddenly makes plan9.ini a lot less optional. Thus I am fairly opposed to having it there. Instead, I would like to see the configuration information for venti and fossil put at the beginning of their disks, so that you can just tell it the disk and you're off and running. With some sensible conventions naming the disks we could boot an IDE system with no plan9.ini at all. Long ago, plan9.ini had syntax for defining multiline environment variables. It was dropped at one point because it wasn't found to be generally useful. I hope this continues to be the case. If we need to store that much in an environment variable, it means we've built the system in such a way that it requires too much configuration. Russ --upas-qdjpfdlnenrkpuiapklcdraynb-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 01:19:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 01:19:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4375 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 01:19:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4371 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 01:19:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 01:19:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6F34919C00; Wed, 21 May 2003 12:19:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E8CAC19A0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 12:18:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Fco.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Re: change in 9load Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 18:18:14 +0200 Changing if (mb->name[0] != '!') continue; with if (mb->name[0] != '$') continue; in /sys/src/boot/pc/conf.c, after applying the diff I sent before, would achieve what Russ suggested (using [$var] instead of [!var] in plan9.ini). I've already made that change; it makes things more clear. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 01:42:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 01:42:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4743 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 01:42:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4739 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 01:42:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 01:42:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 339BB19C01; Wed, 21 May 2003 12:41:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ophiopogon.tommyk.com (unknown [204.60.70.245]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C7B1519BD3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 12:40:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tommyk.com (bofh.tommyk.com [204.60.70.253]) by ophiopogon.tommyk.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4LGe1qc018024 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 12:40:01 -0400 Message-ID: <3ECBABE8.9050009@tommyk.com> From: Jason Gurtz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4b) Gecko/20030515 Thunderbird/0.1a X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? References: , <20030518231310.8395.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.33 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: jason@tommyk.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 12:40:08 -0400 Adrian Tritschler wrote: > We've just spent most of the morning dealing with W32/Palyh-a [1]. May MIMEDefang come to your rescue. It's let me sleep at night in these troubled times. ~Jason -- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 01:48:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 01:48:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4829 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 01:48:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4825 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 01:48:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 01:48:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C169019C04; Wed, 21 May 2003 12:48:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2E6D119A6F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 12:47:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h4LGkanp028676; Wed, 21 May 2003 18:46:39 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h4LGkZEW028675; Wed, 21 May 2003 18:46:35 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: hangar18-general@open-forge.org, hell@einstein.ssz.com Subject: Re: [9fans] The Future of OS's & P9 (was: Re: [OT] domain socket support in open(2) on unix) Message-ID: <20030521184633.X7647@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, hangar18-general@open-forge.org, hell@einstein.ssz.com References: <20030521064709.U7647@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from Jim Choate on Wed, May 21, 2003 at 06:27:57AM -0500 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 18:46:34 +0200 On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 06:27:57AM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > > Your view however is an example of a biological problem with this > community. > And your solution, Dr Mengele, is? ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 01:49:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 01:49:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4836 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 01:49:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4832 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 01:49:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 01:49:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D16B719C09; Wed, 21 May 2003 12:49:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BA69B19C03 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 12:48:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557599-30584>; Wed, 21 May 2003 12:48:05 -0400 Message-ID: <00fb01c31fb8$bf201460$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3ECBABE8.9050009@tommyk.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 18:48:02 +0200 > May MIMEDefang come to your rescue. It's let me sleep at night in these the really stupid thing about the MINE (sic) field is that you can parse it with awk -- it looks recursive, but it's just linear, with some context. i had to do it once for a security audit, for the rat squad ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 01:52:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 01:52:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4953 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 01:52:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4949 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 01:52:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 01:52:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8E1B3199D5; Wed, 21 May 2003 12:52:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5023D199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 12:51:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557129-30591>; Wed, 21 May 2003 12:51:02 -0400 Message-ID: <010b01c31fb9$28d58ac0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030521064709.U7647@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <20030521184633.X7647@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] The Future of OS's & P9 (was: Re: [OT] domain socket support in open(2) on unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 18:50:59 +0200 > And your solution, Dr Mengele, is? thalium From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 02:09:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 02:09:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5129 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 02:09:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5125 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 02:09:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 02:09:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AD50719BD3; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:09:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 030BD19C03 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:08:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h4LH6xnp028761 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 19:07:00 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h4LH6xmH028760 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 21 May 2003 19:06:59 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] changes in 9load Message-ID: <20030521190658.Z7647@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <01e7742448008afaaec0acf79079d55a@plan9.escet.urjc.es> <378f47e82d876408e51c03e6eb666d80@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <378f47e82d876408e51c03e6eb666d80@plan9.bell-labs.com>; from Russ Cox on Wed, May 21, 2003 at 11:22:24AM -0400 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 19:06:58 +0200 On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 11:22:24AM -0400, Russ Cox wrote: > > I'd rather not see the multiline environment variable hack > go into plan9.ini. (Though if it did, I'd name the sections [$var] > instead of [!var].) > > [ Etc. ] I agree with Russ's sentiments, possibly not for the exact same reasons. I couldn't quite find an opportunity earlier, but I'd like to add a small thought here. I would have brought it up eventually, probably after some experimentation, this has given me the chance: I like the /boot idea. I'd like it even more if its contents could be discarded, or maybe made kernel-loadable for real convenience, but as it stands it is already pretty cool. In fact, my thinking was that one may be able to construct an AUTH kernel with its entire complement of tools in /boot, and only the auth data on disk outside the kernel. As I mentioned, I was going to try this out before bringing it up, but perhaps somebody else wants to give it a try while I'm busy with other, more mundane activities. Given such an option, I'd also rather keep the mandatory information in plan9.ini and its complexity to a bare minimum. If I understood Nemo's proposal, it attempts to move as much out of /boot as can be described by some option in plan9.ini. Of itself, the idea has its own merits, but it seems to me to suggest that /boot should be deprecated, whereas I believe its possibilities should be explored further instead. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 02:15:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 02:15:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5159 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 02:15:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5155 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 02:15:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 02:15:38 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 014A119C15; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:15:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D4FE819C0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:14:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8abadcd91b5fc673b6fc250eb840d9a7@plan9.escet.urjc.es> From: Fco.J.Ballesteros To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] changes in 9load In-Reply-To: <20030521190658.Z7647@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-dgiyxiyhpzwxtxifymppqclhgl" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 19:15:41 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-dgiyxiyhpzwxtxifymppqclhgl Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not quite. Just to clarify the aim of the code I sent: My proposal was to keep in plan9.ini just that part of /boot that you consider configuration (venti.conf, fossil.conf mainly). Otherwise, I keep /boot as it was, readonly, with all the tools in. However, I'm putting the configuration for fs, fossil, and venti into plan9.ini. (Now that the alternative is to put that in /boot). I also thought of making /boot rw, but that would be much more clumsy that putting the config somewhere else. When thinking about where to put it, I considered that in fact I had to keep a plan9.ini everywhere, and I just decided to put the config for the file server in that place too (instead of adding a different place). --upas-dgiyxiyhpzwxtxifymppqclhgl Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Wed May 21 19:09:32 MDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AD50719BD3; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:09:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 030BD19C03 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:08:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h4LH6xnp028761 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 19:07:00 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h4LH6xmH028760 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 21 May 2003 19:06:59 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] changes in 9load Message-ID: <20030521190658.Z7647@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <01e7742448008afaaec0acf79079d55a@plan9.escet.urjc.es> <378f47e82d876408e51c03e6eb666d80@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <378f47e82d876408e51c03e6eb666d80@plan9.bell-labs.com>; from Russ Cox on Wed, May 21, 2003 at 11:22:24AM -0400 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 19:06:58 +0200 On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 11:22:24AM -0400, Russ Cox wrote: > > I'd rather not see the multiline environment variable hack > go into plan9.ini. (Though if it did, I'd name the sections [$var] > instead of [!var].) > > [ Etc. ] I agree with Russ's sentiments, possibly not for the exact same reasons. I couldn't quite find an opportunity earlier, but I'd like to add a small thought here. I would have brought it up eventually, probably after some experimentation, this has given me the chance: I like the /boot idea. I'd like it even more if its contents could be discarded, or maybe made kernel-loadable for real convenience, but as it stands it is already pretty cool. In fact, my thinking was that one may be able to construct an AUTH kernel with its entire complement of tools in /boot, and only the auth data on disk outside the kernel. As I mentioned, I was going to try this out before bringing it up, but perhaps somebody else wants to give it a try while I'm busy with other, more mundane activities. Given such an option, I'd also rather keep the mandatory information in plan9.ini and its complexity to a bare minimum. If I understood Nemo's proposal, it attempts to move as much out of /boot as can be described by some option in plan9.ini. Of itself, the idea has its own merits, but it seems to me to suggest that /boot should be deprecated, whereas I believe its possibilities should be explored further instead. ++L --upas-dgiyxiyhpzwxtxifymppqclhgl-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 02:24:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 02:24:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5254 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 02:24:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5250 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 02:24:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 02:24:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4411519C13; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:24:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D969919C05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:23:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Channel casting From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <3100726675a9ffcb9f2eefc78956dba1@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 18:27:19 +0100 > For the case you describe, the client typically > sends a (request, return-channel) pair and > then recvs from the return channel, which is > private to that client. note that if clients adhere correctly to protocol, then it's not strictly necessary to allocate a new channel each time. to modify russ's examples: an echo server: srvchan := chan of int; srvreplychan := chan of int; for(;;){ n := <-srvchan; srvreplychan <-= n; } echothread(srvchan, replychan: chan of int) { for(i:=0;; i++){ srvchan <-= i; j := <-replychan; sys->print("sent %d, got %d\n", i, j); } } spawn echothread(srvchan, srvreplychan); spawn echothread(srvchan, srvreplychan); spawn echothread(srvchan, srvreplychan); spawn echothread(srvchan, srvreplychan); since we're using synchronous (unbuffered) channels, and clients always write, then read, the server is guaranteed to be writing back to the same client. sometimes this makes things simpler; other times, sending a reply channel makes more sense (particularly when the kind of reply might depend on the particular request). cheers, rog. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 02:26:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 02:26:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5276 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 02:26:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5272 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 02:26:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 02:26:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CD22519C14; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:26:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C29719A73 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:25:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1070b997c6e01722c930d7feb2a2a20d@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] changes in 9load In-Reply-To: <7abfedf4f4faab48978e00e252c29661@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 13:24:54 -0400 > Regarding the other change, it seems better to parse the arguments once > and pass them already parsed to the kernel. That's very true (hence the source comment) but the main factor is pain. It requires updating everyone's 9load and kernel simultaneously (at least the way you've done it), and that's just not easy for a lot of people. We have home users at Bell Labs who use Plan 9 as a means to do other work and aren't really interested in maintaining their home systems. I'll leave the double parsing in until there's a different compelling reason to force them to update their 9loads. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 02:27:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 02:27:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5285 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 02:27:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5281 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 02:27:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 02:27:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8EBA219C08; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:27:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 15A9919C16 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:26:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3f90c52f2d3a097adb1c92a16636d9f3@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Channel casting In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 13:26:09 -0400 > sometimes this makes things simpler; other times, sending a reply > channel makes more sense (particularly when the kind of reply might > depend on the particular request). also when the timing of the reply might depend on the particular request. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 02:28:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 02:28:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5292 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 02:28:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5288 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 02:28:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 02:28:40 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9A8BB19C20; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:27:25 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 56E4C19BFC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:26:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h4LHP4np028841 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 19:25:04 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h4LHP3iR028840 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 21 May 2003 19:25:03 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] changes in 9load Message-ID: <20030521192502.C7647@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030521190658.Z7647@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <8abadcd91b5fc673b6fc250eb840d9a7@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <8abadcd91b5fc673b6fc250eb840d9a7@plan9.escet.urjc.es>; from Fco.J.Ballesteros on Wed, May 21, 2003 at 07:15:41PM +0200 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 19:25:02 +0200 On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 07:15:41PM +0200, Fco.J.Ballesteros wrote: > > Not quite. Just to clarify the aim of the code I sent: > I confess to reading your message somewhat lightly. I really was being rather opportunistic in hoping to vent my idea of a self-contained AUTH server. > My proposal was to keep in plan9.ini just that part of /boot > that you consider configuration (venti.conf, fossil.conf mainly). > Otherwise, I keep /boot as it was, readonly, with all the tools in. > However, I'm putting the configuration for fs, fossil, and venti into > plan9.ini. (Now that the alternative is to put that in /boot). > And the big difference is in /boot being immutable except with great pain. I think your intent is certainly commendable :-) > I also thought of making /boot rw, but that would be much more clumsy that > putting the config somewhere else. When thinking about where to put it, > I considered that in fact I had to keep a plan9.ini everywhere, and I > just decided to put the config for the file server in that place too (instead > of adding a different place). Yeah. I also considered a rw /boot, but, without even looking, I assumed it would be a bitch, at best. Being read-only is of course a security advantage. On the other hand, could a script in /boot not read the configuration files from the boot medium instead of inheriting them off the "environment"? I do like the thought that with brucee's extensions we could make /boot the location of loadable kernel modules to meet your desires at least half way. On that score, could these extensions be made available, maybe someone will finish them if they still need some effort? ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 02:31:05 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 02:31:05 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5335 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 02:31:05 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5331 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 02:31:04 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 02:31:04 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D595F19C1D; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:30:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.185]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4837619C1A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:29:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-18-234.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.18.234 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 May 2003 17:29:21 -0000 Message-ID: <3ECBC538.5090608@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Channel casting References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 13:28:08 -0500 > > >since we're using synchronous (unbuffered) channels, and clients >always write, then read, the server is guaranteed to be writing back >to the same client. > What I was mainly worried about was timing. If one thread sends a request, but, another thread preempts that first thread's call to recv, wont the second thread receive the server thread's response? > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 02:32:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 02:32:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5347 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 02:32:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5343 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 02:32:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 02:32:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 378D019BFC; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B782219BFC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:31:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <857b88797f5bfa58bbd65e2cf2d03df4@plan9.escet.urjc.es> From: Fco.J.Ballesteros To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] changes in 9load In-Reply-To: <20030521192502.C7647@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-prqzekmpwshynlqmxnbpequnkt" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 19:32:07 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-prqzekmpwshynlqmxnbpequnkt Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The boot script can read the config from wherever you want. Just use whatever -c /boot/whateverconf instead of whatever -c /env/whateverconf --upas-prqzekmpwshynlqmxnbpequnkt Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Wed May 21 19:28:52 MDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9A8BB19C20; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:27:25 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 56E4C19BFC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:26:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h4LHP4np028841 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 19:25:04 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h4LHP3iR028840 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 21 May 2003 19:25:03 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] changes in 9load Message-ID: <20030521192502.C7647@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030521190658.Z7647@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <8abadcd91b5fc673b6fc250eb840d9a7@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <8abadcd91b5fc673b6fc250eb840d9a7@plan9.escet.urjc.es>; from Fco.J.Ballesteros on Wed, May 21, 2003 at 07:15:41PM +0200 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 19:25:02 +0200 On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 07:15:41PM +0200, Fco.J.Ballesteros wrote: > > Not quite. Just to clarify the aim of the code I sent: > I confess to reading your message somewhat lightly. I really was being rather opportunistic in hoping to vent my idea of a self-contained AUTH server. > My proposal was to keep in plan9.ini just that part of /boot > that you consider configuration (venti.conf, fossil.conf mainly). > Otherwise, I keep /boot as it was, readonly, with all the tools in. > However, I'm putting the configuration for fs, fossil, and venti into > plan9.ini. (Now that the alternative is to put that in /boot). > And the big difference is in /boot being immutable except with great pain. I think your intent is certainly commendable :-) > I also thought of making /boot rw, but that would be much more clumsy that > putting the config somewhere else. When thinking about where to put it, > I considered that in fact I had to keep a plan9.ini everywhere, and I > just decided to put the config for the file server in that place too (instead > of adding a different place). Yeah. I also considered a rw /boot, but, without even looking, I assumed it would be a bitch, at best. Being read-only is of course a security advantage. On the other hand, could a script in /boot not read the configuration files from the boot medium instead of inheriting them off the "environment"? I do like the thought that with brucee's extensions we could make /boot the location of loadable kernel modules to meet your desires at least half way. On that score, could these extensions be made available, maybe someone will finish them if they still need some effort? ++L --upas-prqzekmpwshynlqmxnbpequnkt-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 02:34:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 02:34:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5438 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 02:34:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5434 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 02:34:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 02:34:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 72E7519C19; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:34:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0770119C19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:33:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed May 21 13:33:34 EDT 2003 Received: from 18.24.6.131 ([18.24.6.131]) by plan9; Wed May 21 13:33:30 EDT 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Channel casting From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <3ECBC538.5090608@ameritech.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 13:33:22 -0400 > What I was mainly worried about was timing. > If one thread sends a request, but, another > thread preempts that first thread's call to > recv, wont the second thread receive the > server thread's response? The way I wrote the server it's only ever handling one request at a time, which means that only the thread who sent that request has finished sending. You're right that if the server handles multiple requests at a time then you need a reply channel. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 02:36:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 02:36:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5505 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 02:36:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5501 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 02:36:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 02:36:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EC8BF19C29; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:36:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB93D19C05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:35:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed May 21 13:35:28 EDT 2003 Received: from 18.24.6.131 ([18.24.6.131]) by plan9; Wed May 21 13:35:25 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <90b20611bddbc6da6a3a70d5d136263a@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] changes in 9load From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030521192502.C7647@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 13:35:17 -0400 > Yeah. I also considered a rw /boot, but, without even looking, I > assumed it would be a bitch, at best. Being read-only is of course > a security advantage. On the other hand, could a script in /boot > not read the configuration files from the boot medium instead of > inheriting them off the "environment"? What would a rw /boot mean? Changing it certainly wouldn't change the kernel image (wherever it may have been picked up from), so you might as well use ramfs if you want an in-memory rw file system. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 02:40:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 02:40:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5531 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 02:40:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5527 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 02:40:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 02:40:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1A8F419C2A; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:40:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 46F0F19C24 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:39:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <237a8d9fe4cca979898acf08a7987cb1@plan9.escet.urjc.es> From: Fco.J.Ballesteros To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] changes in 9load In-Reply-To: <90b20611bddbc6da6a3a70d5d136263a@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-gbgvhcgjpsitovopcgktagjhbr" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 19:39:57 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-gbgvhcgjpsitovopcgktagjhbr Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I meant a file system to access the /boot portion in the kernel image. But I think that's both clumsy and wrong (because you might change the kernel without doing a mk) and discarded the idea soon after considering it. --upas-gbgvhcgjpsitovopcgktagjhbr Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Wed May 21 19:36:27 MDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EC8BF19C29; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:36:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB93D19C05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:35:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed May 21 13:35:28 EDT 2003 Received: from 18.24.6.131 ([18.24.6.131]) by plan9; Wed May 21 13:35:25 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <90b20611bddbc6da6a3a70d5d136263a@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] changes in 9load From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030521192502.C7647@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 13:35:17 -0400 > Yeah. I also considered a rw /boot, but, without even looking, I > assumed it would be a bitch, at best. Being read-only is of course > a security advantage. On the other hand, could a script in /boot > not read the configuration files from the boot medium instead of > inheriting them off the "environment"? What would a rw /boot mean? Changing it certainly wouldn't change the kernel image (wherever it may have been picked up from), so you might as well use ramfs if you want an in-memory rw file system. Russ --upas-gbgvhcgjpsitovopcgktagjhbr-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 02:46:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 02:46:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5672 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 02:46:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5668 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 02:46:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 02:46:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1223019C2C; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:46:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5CEEF19C2D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:45:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed May 21 13:45:22 EDT 2003 Received: from 18.24.6.131 ([18.24.6.131]) by plan9; Wed May 21 13:45:20 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <2aae62524e8ca87f9fb6bbaea9b9b756@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] VAIO ATI RAGE MOBILITY-M1 AGP 1024x768x16 lcd display From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <003b01c31fb0$29268000$e3944251@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 13:45:16 -0400 I think I made all the necessary changes to do a text mode install. When you boot, you get dropped out to a prompt and then you run inst/textonly. I think. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 02:49:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 02:49:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5684 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 02:49:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5680 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 02:49:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 02:49:40 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 54CF219BFB; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:49:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 58DAA19C1A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:48:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h4LHl8np028975 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 19:47:08 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h4LHl7Ak028974 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 21 May 2003 19:47:07 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] changes in 9load Message-ID: <20030521194706.E7647@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030521192502.C7647@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <90b20611bddbc6da6a3a70d5d136263a@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <90b20611bddbc6da6a3a70d5d136263a@plan9.bell-labs.com>; from Russ Cox on Wed, May 21, 2003 at 01:35:17PM -0400 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 19:47:06 +0200 On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 01:35:17PM -0400, Russ Cox wrote: > > What would a rw /boot mean? Changing it certainly > wouldn't change the kernel image (wherever it may > have been picked up from), so you might as well use > ramfs if you want an in-memory rw file system. > In an embedded system, for example, you could release the memory allocated to modules you no longer need. You'd certainly not want that reflected in the permanent storage image, but it could make a significant difference where memory is at a premium. That's really the only purpose I could imagine. Being able to change data in /boot sounds like great complication with very little gain. ++L PS: Often the argument that memory and computing cycles are cheap resources is raised here and elsewhere. My take is that this is certainly the case, but that making efficient use of resources is a better investment than relying on low cost. The difference becomes significant when utilisation soares and the inefficiencies bring a system to its knees. IMHO reliance on low cost leads to environmental waste, specially in an economic sense. Not that I don't understand the danger of premature optimisation :-) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 02:52:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 02:52:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5713 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 02:52:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5709 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 02:52:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 02:52:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA50719BEC; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:52:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D6A9519ABF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:51:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed May 21 13:51:10 EDT 2003 Received: from 18.24.6.131 ([18.24.6.131]) by plan9; Wed May 21 13:51:07 EDT 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] changes in 9load From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030521194706.E7647@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 13:51:00 -0400 > In an embedded system, for example, you could release the memory > allocated to modules you no longer need. You'd certainly not want > that reflected in the permanent storage image, but it could make > a significant difference where memory is at a premium. This isn't a r/w /boot. This is a removable /boot. That makes a lot more sense. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 02:58:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 02:58:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5765 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 02:58:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5761 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 02:58:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 02:58:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 88E0F19ABF; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:58:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E417119C22 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:57:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h4LHuenp029019 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 19:56:40 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h4LHueEW029018 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 21 May 2003 19:56:40 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] changes in 9load Message-ID: <20030521195639.G7647@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030521194706.E7647@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from Russ Cox on Wed, May 21, 2003 at 01:51:00PM -0400 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 19:56:39 +0200 On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 01:51:00PM -0400, Russ Cox wrote: > > This isn't a r/w /boot. This is a removable /boot. > That makes a lot more sense. Yes. But I assumed one might be selective, based on needing rw permission on /boot to be able to rm a component. Except that the effort isn't justified if taken to its logical extreme. Hence the (un)loadable kernel modules. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 03:00:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 03:00:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5774 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 03:00:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5770 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 03:00:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 03:00:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A1A4019C3A; Wed, 21 May 2003 14:00:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0971419C35 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:59:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h4LH3Ka9015135 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 13:03:30 -0400 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] fid in use Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 13:03:20 -0400 (EDT) I'm getting occasional messages on the cpu console when i type in commands, eg: grep: '/bin/grep' fid in use What might this be due to; perhaps a file server that's been up too long over many cpu server reboots? Cheers, Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 03:07:55 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 03:07:55 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5892 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 03:07:54 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5888 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 03:07:54 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 03:07:54 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0D05919C3B; Wed, 21 May 2003 14:05:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7858419C3C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 14:04:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h4LI3Gnp029056 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 20:03:17 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h4LI3G8g029055 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 21 May 2003 20:03:16 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] changes in 9load Message-ID: <20030521200315.H7647@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <90b20611bddbc6da6a3a70d5d136263a@plan9.bell-labs.com> <237a8d9fe4cca979898acf08a7987cb1@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <237a8d9fe4cca979898acf08a7987cb1@plan9.escet.urjc.es>; from Fco.J.Ballesteros on Wed, May 21, 2003 at 07:39:57PM +0200 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 20:03:16 +0200 On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 07:39:57PM +0200, Fco.J.Ballesteros wrote: > > I meant a file system to access the /boot portion in the kernel image. > But I think that's both clumsy and wrong (because you might change the kernel > without doing a mk) and discarded the idea soon after considering it. I don't like the thought of manipulating a disk image in this fashion, myself. But I really think your objective could be achieved, as you point out, by storing the information in a config file _other_ than plan9.ini on the boot medium. Maybe a /n/init mountpoint? Would this really be less flexible than having the knowledge in 9load? ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 03:12:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 03:12:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5953 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 03:12:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5940 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 03:12:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 03:12:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E79CB19C3C; Wed, 21 May 2003 14:12:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6756519A6B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 14:11:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: Fco.J.Ballesteros To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] changes in 9load In-Reply-To: <20030521200315.H7647@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-kridoghykomvfjvffxibweahiw" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 20:11:36 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-kridoghykomvfjvffxibweahiw Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The point it that it would be yet another place where you have to put configuration in. If configuration doesn't go away (eg by putting it in the thing being handled, like in the disk used by venti), I prefer to keep it all just in one place. I mean, If right now, if I get 9load and a plan9.ini, I'm all set. --upas-kridoghykomvfjvffxibweahiw Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Wed May 21 20:08:02 MDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0D05919C3B; Wed, 21 May 2003 14:05:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7858419C3C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 14:04:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h4LI3Gnp029056 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 20:03:17 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h4LI3G8g029055 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 21 May 2003 20:03:16 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] changes in 9load Message-ID: <20030521200315.H7647@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <90b20611bddbc6da6a3a70d5d136263a@plan9.bell-labs.com> <237a8d9fe4cca979898acf08a7987cb1@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <237a8d9fe4cca979898acf08a7987cb1@plan9.escet.urjc.es>; from Fco.J.Ballesteros on Wed, May 21, 2003 at 07:39:57PM +0200 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 20:03:16 +0200 On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 07:39:57PM +0200, Fco.J.Ballesteros wrote: > > I meant a file system to access the /boot portion in the kernel image. > But I think that's both clumsy and wrong (because you might change the kernel > without doing a mk) and discarded the idea soon after considering it. I don't like the thought of manipulating a disk image in this fashion, myself. But I really think your objective could be achieved, as you point out, by storing the information in a config file _other_ than plan9.ini on the boot medium. Maybe a /n/init mountpoint? Would this really be less flexible than having the knowledge in 9load? ++L --upas-kridoghykomvfjvffxibweahiw-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 03:41:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 03:41:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6348 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 03:41:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6344 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 03:41:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 03:41:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0FA7719BDE; Wed, 21 May 2003 14:41:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6AF0D19BDE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 14:40:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h4LIdinp029105 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 20:39:45 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h4LIdhEr029104 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 21 May 2003 20:39:43 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] changes in 9load Message-ID: <20030521203942.I7647@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030521200315.H7647@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from Fco.J.Ballesteros on Wed, May 21, 2003 at 08:11:36PM +0200 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 20:39:42 +0200 On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 08:11:36PM +0200, Fco.J.Ballesteros wrote: > > The point it that it would be yet another place where you > have to put configuration in. > I guess it's a judgement call. I do see your point. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 03:47:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 03:47:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6407 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 03:47:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6403 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 03:47:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 03:47:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 86AAA19C34; Wed, 21 May 2003 14:47:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 613AC19C05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 14:46:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2ca3dd7d4095c2b41138ab023a0a56e8@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Channel casting From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <3ECBC538.5090608@ameritech.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 19:50:01 +0100 > What I was mainly worried about was timing. > If one thread sends a request, but, another > thread preempts that first thread's call to > recv, wont the second thread receive the > server thread's response? there's no problem if the server is single threaded and only serves one request at a time. the problem you speak of can only happen if two threads are both trying to recv at the same time, but that can't happen if clients always write before they read (and the channels are synchronous), as all the clients will queue up to write to request, and the server lets them through one at a time, sending the reply back before it lets the next one in. try modelling it in spin... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 10:08:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 10:08:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20518 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 10:08:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20505 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 10:08:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 10:08:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2205A19BD0; Wed, 21 May 2003 21:08:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E2AFA19AAB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 21:07:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <964b87494cb2caf04beb3f2637745a08@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Channel casting Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <2ca3dd7d4095c2b41138ab023a0a56e8@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 10:09:34 +0900 > always write before they read (and the channels are synchronous), as ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ We experienced it's not so easy to keep this. ? Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 12:44:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 12:44:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9242 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 12:44:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9238 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 12:44:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 12:44:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C1A3A19B29; Wed, 21 May 2003 23:44:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from thefrayedknot.armory.com (thefrayedknot.armory.com [192.122.209.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 322EA19A8D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 23:43:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 25156 invoked by uid 1000); 22 May 2003 03:43:56 -0000 From: Andrew To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20030522034356.GA25139@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: [9fans] serial mice Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 20:43:56 -0700 are these still supported? is there a way to make them work? I have a bunch of systems that would make great terminals but lack ps/2 ports. Thanks Andrew From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 12:50:03 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 12:50:03 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9470 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 12:50:01 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9466 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 12:50:01 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 12:50:01 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ABB6319AFB; Wed, 21 May 2003 23:49:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 774D519A77 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 23:48:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed May 21 23:48:28 EDT 2003 Received: from 64.36.89.66 ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Wed May 21 23:48:26 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <24a07af800a748c2beab39d99802afec@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] serial mice From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030522034356.GA25139@thefrayedknot.armory.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 23:48:34 -0400 > are these still supported? is there a way to make them work? I have a > bunch of systems that would make great terminals but lack ps/2 ports. > Thanks sure, set mouseport=0 or mouseport=1 in plan9.ini for COM1 or COM2. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 12:56:57 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 12:56:57 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9813 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 12:56:56 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9809 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 12:56:56 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 12:56:56 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F6BC19B22; Wed, 21 May 2003 23:56:42 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 22208199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 23:55:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 29479 invoked by uid 991); 22 May 2003 03:55:16 -0000 Message-ID: <20030522035516.29478.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] serial mice In-Reply-To: Message from Andrew of "Wed, 21 May 2003 20:43:56 PDT." <20030522034356.GA25139@thefrayedknot.armory.com> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 23:55:16 -0400 > are these still supported? Yes. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 13:01:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 13:01:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9991 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 13:01:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9986 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 13:01:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 13:01:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D617719B50; Thu, 22 May 2003 00:01:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from thefrayedknot.armory.com (thefrayedknot.armory.com [192.122.209.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1448A19B50 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 23:59:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 25321 invoked by uid 1000); 22 May 2003 03:59:11 -0000 From: Andrew To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] serial mice Message-ID: <20030522035911.GA25303@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030522034356.GA25139@thefrayedknot.armory.com> <24a07af800a748c2beab39d99802afec@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <24a07af800a748c2beab39d99802afec@plan9.bell-labs.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 20:59:11 -0700 thanks, I guess I was confused since I thought that the plan9.ini man page said otherwise. On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 11:48:34PM -0400, Russ Cox wrote: > > are these still supported? is there a way to make them work? I have a > > bunch of systems that would make great terminals but lack ps/2 ports. > > Thanks > > sure, set mouseport=0 or mouseport=1 in plan9.ini for COM1 or COM2. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 13:04:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 13:04:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10177 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 13:04:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10173 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 13:04:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 13:04:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E0B8019A75; Thu, 22 May 2003 00:04:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B871019A6B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 May 2003 00:03:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] serial mice In-Reply-To: <20030522035911.GA25303@thefrayedknot.armory.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 00:03:35 -0400 ha ha ha ha ha. time for bed. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 13:31:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 13:31:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11516 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 13:31:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11511 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 13:31:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 13:31:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6FB3619AC2; Thu, 22 May 2003 00:31:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from web9502.mail.yahoo.com (web9502.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.132]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id DFEED199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 May 2003 00:30:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <20030522043025.51158.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.178.96.169] by web9502.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 21 May 2003 21:30:25 PDT From: G Remlin Subject: re: [9fans] serial mice To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 21:30:25 -0700 (PDT) don't let mice eat your serial __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 13:41:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 13:41:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12079 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 13:41:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12072 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 13:41:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 13:41:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A9ECD19B5E; Thu, 22 May 2003 00:41:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 54A1319AF2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 May 2003 00:40:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA14029 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 May 2003 00:40:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h4M4eM520453 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 May 2003 00:40:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305220440.h4M4eM520453@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] serial mice In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 21 May 2003 21:30:25 PDT." <20030522043025.51158.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 00:40:22 -0400 uh oh..... - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 13:44:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 13:44:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12210 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 13:44:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12206 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 13:44:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 13:44:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 449F519B49; Thu, 22 May 2003 00:44:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from thefrayedknot.armory.com (thefrayedknot.armory.com [192.122.209.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 7A6F919A6B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 May 2003 00:43:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 25777 invoked by uid 1000); 22 May 2003 04:43:03 -0000 From: Andrew To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] serial mice Message-ID: <20030522044303.GA25748@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030522043025.51158.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030522043025.51158.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 21:43:03 -0700 how did I know I would get picked on for using serial and mice together in the same email On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 09:30:25PM -0700, G Remlin wrote: > don't let mice eat your serial > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search.yahoo.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 13:46:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 13:46:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12317 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 13:46:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12313 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 13:46:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 13:46:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B8250199F2; Thu, 22 May 2003 00:46:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7DE3319B81 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 May 2003 00:45:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] serial mice From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <20030522035911.GA25303@thefrayedknot.armory.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 21:45:27 -0700 plan9.ini(8) is out of date. The original 4th edition release didn't support serial mice, but that support was quickly added. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 16:01:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 16:01:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17836 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 16:01:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17832 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 16:01:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 16:01:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2BBDE19BB5; Thu, 22 May 2003 03:01:18 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from epaphras.inhouse.cnm-vra.com (epaphras.cnm-vra.com [208.21.241.46]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 481AE19B3A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 May 2003 03:00:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by epaphras.inhouse.cnm-vra.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C8498CDDE; Wed, 21 May 2003 23:57:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Micah Stetson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Linksys Instant Wireless Message-ID: <20030522065720.GA10198@epaphras.inhouse.cnm-vra.com> References: <20030502174212.GA11412@epaphras.inhouse.cnm-vra.com> <20030505185417.GA16217@epaphras.inhouse.cnm-vra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030505185417.GA16217@epaphras.inhouse.cnm-vra.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 23:57:20 -0700 In my continuing quest to make this wireless card work, I decided to try it in my fiancee's laptop. It dual boots Windows XP and Plan 9. The card (the exact one) works in XP and, amazingly enough, is recognized by Plan 9. When the card is in the laptop, however, I cannot go into graphics mode. The kernel panics (see below) it looks like the area of memory that xspanalloc() is giving to the video driver to hold the cursor data in is already in use by something else. This looks like two separate problems to me. One that the card isn't recognized by my laptop (could it have to do with the fact that we have different PCMCIA/Cardbus adapters -- hers is a Ricoh, mine a TI?). And the second problem being some strange memory interaction involving the wavelan driver and the i81x vga driver. Anyway, here's all the info I have: Sony VAIO model PCG-992L, up to date with sources as of yesterday. Boot log (complete): PBS...Plan 9 from Bell Labs ELCR: 0200 apm ax=f000 cs=f000 dx=40 di=ffff ebx=5d62 esi=-1 dev A0 port 1F0 config 045A capabilities 0F00 mwdma 0007 udma 203F dev A0 port 170 config 85C0 capabilities 0B00 mwdma 0007 udma 0407 using sdC0!9fat!plan9.ini .ether#0: i82557: port 0x3000 irq 9: 08004648CD27 found /386/9pcdisk 849032+792796+73844=1715672 entry: 0x80100020 cpu0: 993MHz GenuineIntel PentiumIII/Xeon (cpuid: AX 0x068A DX 0x383F9FF) ELCR: 0200 pcirouting: BIOS workaround: PCI.0.31.2 at pin 4 link 99 irq 10 -> 9 #Y0: Ricoh 476 PCI/Cardbus bridge, 0FF00000 intl 9 #Y1: Ricoh 476 PCI/Cardbus bridge, 0FF01000 intl 9 #l0: i82557: 10Mbps port 0x3000 irq 9: 08004648CD27 #Y0: The Linksys Group, Inc.;Instant Wireless Network PC Card; irq 3, port 180 wavelanreset, iob 0x180 #l1: wavelan: 10Mbps port 0x180 irq 3: 00062515CA17 #U/usb0: uhci: port 0x1820 irq 9 #U/usb1: uhci: port 0x2400 irq 9 38852 free pages, 155408K bytes, 590608K swap root is from (il, tcp, local)[local!#S/sdC0/fs]: user[none]: micah kfs...version...time... init: starting /bin/rc panic: mmuwalk2: va 80553000 entry 4001E3 ktrace /kernel/path 80106561 807fb4c0 807fb460=80106414 807fb468=801b3978 807fb47c=80105ebe 807fb480=80100be7 807fb488=80100bd6 807fb494=80139ea4 807fb4a8=80106561 807fb4bc=80106561 807fb4c0=80106418 807fb4c8=8013a21f 807fb4dc=801b3a96 807fb51c=801c5b96 807fb52c=801b3a96 807fb530=8010033c 807fb56c=8010040d 807fb570=801c27f1 807fb57c=801b45a7 807fb594=801b3a96 807fb5a0=801b45f0 807fb5a8=801b3978 807fb5ac=801b451d 807fb5b4=801b45a7 807fb5c8=801ad931 807fb5d8=801b45f0 807fb5f0=80104c11 807fb610=801898e4 807fb624=801c5f7d 807fb634=801a67fc 807fb640=801c3ae7 807fb650=8019b0c9 807fb660=801c3b79 807fb670=8019f157 807fb67c=801c3d53 807fb688=801a659b 807fb694=801a667f 807fb6ac=801b3978 807fb6b8=8019b3fb 807fb6c4=801b3978 807fb6e4=801afa87 807fb70c=801aeb70 807fb724=801afbb6 807fb74c=801068e0 807fb75c=8010033c 807fb77c=80100982 807fb7b8=801004cd cpu0: exiting If I log in as none, thus bypassing aux/vga, I can do this: % cat '#Y/cb0ctl' slot 0: SlotConfigured; The Linksys Group, Inc.;Instant Wireless Network PC Card; port 180; irq 3; configuration[8192] irqs DEB8; vpp 0, 0; (default); io[0] 00000000 64 % If I add a line 'pccard0=disabled' to plan9.ini, so that the Cardbus controller is treated like a PCMCIA controller, then I can do this: % aux/pcmcia device 512 bytes of 0ns unkown attr device 98304 bytes of 0ns SRAM attr device 268435456 bytes of 0ns unknown version 1.0 The Linksys Group, Inc. Instant Wireless Network PC Card configuration registers at (0)0x3e0 configuration 1 (default) I/O device, Vcc: Vmin 3000000uV Vmax 5250000uV Iavg 300mA ipeak 300mA ipowerdown 10mA IO space 6 address lines 8bit or 16bit access interrupts:level:pulse:shared, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 % Is that 268MB of 0ns unknown?? Any help or pointers would be greatly appreciated. I'm not even sure where the best place to start is. Especially not with the memory issue. Thanks, Micah From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 16:17:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 16:17:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18603 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 16:17:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18599 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 16:17:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 16:17:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C57EF19B92; Thu, 22 May 2003 03:17:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 49EEB19A64 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 May 2003 03:16:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557486-23472>; Thu, 22 May 2003 03:16:31 -0400 Message-ID: <014401c32032$104c5f00$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030502174212.GA11412@epaphras.inhouse.cnm-vra.com> <20030505185417.GA16217@epaphras.inhouse.cnm-vra.com> <20030522065720.GA10198@epaphras.inhouse.cnm-vra.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Linksys Instant Wireless MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 09:16:27 +0200 ahh, VAIO's ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 17:00:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 17:00:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20629 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 17:00:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20625 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 17:00:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 17:00:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A9A4A19B3A; Thu, 22 May 2003 04:00:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from usa.com (unknown [213.213.197.15]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 48B5419A77 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 May 2003 03:59:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown (25.62.252.9) by nntp.pinxodet.net with SMTP; Wed, 21 May 2003 03:01:51 +0800 Received: from mail.naihautsui.co.kr ([10.39.192.81]) by snmp.otwaloow.com with QMQP; Wed, 21 May 2003 10:58:18 +0300 Received: from [158.127.174.192] by group21.345mail.com with QMQP; 21 May 2003 13:54:45 +0600 Received: from unknown (HELO rly04.hottestmile.com) (38.231.215.92) by public.micromail.com.au with asmtp; Wed, 21 May 2003 19:51:12 +1200 Message-ID: <1c7001c32030$8ccc8ac0$10a8df6a@nwy> From: "Harold Hamilton" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Subject: [9fans] dear 9fans, stop proscrastinating and secure your name today Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: "Harold Hamilton" List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 06:05:38 -0100 OWZhbnMNCg0KRXZlcnkgZ2xvYmFsIEQwTUFJTiBlIHggdCBlIG4gcyBpIG8g biBjYW4gYmUgciBlIGcgaXMgdCByIGUgZCBoZXJlLg0KU2F0aXNmYWN0aW9u IGd1YXJhbnRlZWQgb3IgeW91IGNhbiBtb3ZlIHlvdXIgbmFtZSBvdXQgYW5k IGJlIGNyZWRpdGVkIGZvciByZW1haW5pbmcgdGltZSBvbiB5b3VyIHJlZ2lz dHJhdGlvbi4NCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cuRG9tYWluc0ZvckV2ZXJ5b25lLmNvbQ0K DQoNCg0KDQoNCkkgZG9uJ3Qgd2FudCB0byByZWNlaXZlIGFueW1vcmUgZW1h aWwgbWVzc3NhZ2VzIGF0IHRoaXMgOWZhbnNAY3NlLnBzdS5lZHUgDQpodHRw Oi8vd3d3LmVtYWlscmVtb3ZhbHJlZ2lzdHJ5LmNvbS9jZ2ktYmluL2RvbWFp bi1yZW1vdmUuY2dpDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQpCeWhwaGtwbUxibXhrDQpEb2tl Z2V2d1lxdmhwcg0KazE= From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 17:58:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 17:58:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22650 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 17:58:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22646 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 17:58:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 17:58:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DCF3819A8D; Thu, 22 May 2003 04:58:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E3EC7199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 May 2003 04:57:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19Ilkz-0002tV-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 22 May 2003 09:49:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "boyd, rounin" Message-ID: <3ecc7d85$0$21580$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net> Organization: Noos References: <003b01c31fb0$29268000$e3944251@insultant.net>, <2aae62524e8ca87f9fb6bbaea9b9b756@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] VAIO ATI RAGE MOBILITY-M1 AGP 1024x768x16 lcd display Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 08:46:15 GMT "Russ Cox" a écrit dans le message de news:2aae62524e8ca87f9fb6bbaea9b9b756@plan9.bell-labs.com... > I think I made all the necessary changes to do a text mode install. > When you boot, you get dropped out to a prompt and then you run > inst/textonly. > > I think. did you test it? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 18:44:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 18:44:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24062 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 18:44:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24058 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 18:44:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 18:44:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B5DA19A67; Thu, 22 May 2003 05:44:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 29D3119A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 May 2003 05:43:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5329c9d63654f35be916727c54698040@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Channel casting From: C H Forsyth In-Reply-To: <964b87494cb2caf04beb3f2637745a08@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-iuzjjniawcolyeduhqelpbekkf" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 10:46:56 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-iuzjjniawcolyeduhqelpbekkf Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit how so? --upas-iuzjjniawcolyeduhqelpbekkf Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@vitanuova.com id 1053565862:20:26487:11; Thu, 22 May 2003 01:11:02 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2025506; 22 May 2003 1:10 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CF05419AAB; Wed, 21 May 2003 21:08:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E2AFA19AAB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 May 2003 21:07:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <964b87494cb2caf04beb3f2637745a08@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Channel casting Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <2ca3dd7d4095c2b41138ab023a0a56e8@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 10:09:34 +0900 > always write before they read (and the channels are synchronous), as ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ We experienced it's not so easy to keep this. ? Kenji --upas-iuzjjniawcolyeduhqelpbekkf-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 19:00:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 19:00:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24512 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 19:00:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24508 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 19:00:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 19:00:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 69E8A19AF2; Thu, 22 May 2003 06:00:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-01.noos.net [212.198.2.70]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 14A3819A06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 May 2003 05:59:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 4622942 invoked by uid 0); 22 May 2003 09:32:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ntmail.noos.fr) ([195.132.21.173]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.70 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with DES-CBC3-SHA encrypted SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 22 May 2003 09:32:15 -0000 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030522113148.00ab86d0@pop.noos.fr> X-Sender: philippe.anel@pop.noos.fr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Philippe Anel Subject: Re: [9fans] VAIO ATI RAGE MOBILITY-M1 AGP 1024x768x16 lcd display In-Reply-To: <3ecc7d85$0$21580$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net> References: <003b01c31fb0$29268000$e3944251@insultant.net> <2aae62524e8ca87f9fb6bbaea9b9b756@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 11:32:30 +0200 At 08:46 22/05/03 +0000, you wrote: >"Russ Cox" a =E9crit dans le message de >news:2aae62524e8ca87f9fb6bbaea9b9b756@plan9.bell-labs.com... > > I think I made all the necessary changes to do a text mode install. > > When you boot, you get dropped out to a prompt and then you run > > inst/textonly. > > > > I think. > >did you test it? I tested it a few weeks ago, and it worked. Philippe, From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 22:33:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 22:33:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29740 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 22:33:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29735 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 22:33:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 22:33:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 062AB199EC; Thu, 22 May 2003 09:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from 200.26.109.30 (unknown [200.26.109.30]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0505019A17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 May 2003 09:31:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post.queensu.ca ([85.202.230.243]) by Engineer.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id 45 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 May 2003 07:29:46 -0500 Received: from [61.227.21.249] by web9902.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 22 May 2003 07:29:44 -0500 From: "Savannah" To: "" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_5E875E87.119C119C" Subject: [9fans] Veronica- Girls too Tight 138486623 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 07:29:39 -0500 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_5E875E87.119C119C Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_5E875E87.119C119C" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PEhUTUw+DQo8IU1pY2hhZWxhPjwhTWFkZWxpbmU+PCFKYXNtaW5lPjwhTm8gd2F5Lj48IVNv cGhpYT48IUFuZHJlYT48IVVuYmVsaWV2YWJsZSA+PCFBbWJlcj48IUFuZ2VsPjwhS2F0aWU+ PCFLYXRpZT48IU9saXZpYT48IVdoeSBkaWQgc2hlIGRvIGl0Pz48IVNhbWFudGhhPg0KPEhF QUQ+DQo8IVNoYW5pYT4NCjxUSVRMRT5SQTwhV2hpdG5leT5XIEZBPCFZdWthID5STSBTRTwh QnJpYW5uYT5YPC9USVRMRT4NCjwhWXVwIGhlIGRpZC4+DQo8TUVUQSBodHRwLWVxdWl2PUNv bnRlbnQtVHlwZSBjb250ZW50PSJ0ZXh0L2h0bWw7IGNoYXJzZXQ9aXNvLTg4NTktMSI+DQo8 IVdvdz48IUxlc2xpZT48IVJlYmVjY2E+PCFKZXNzaWNhPg0KPC9IRUFEPg0KPHAgYWxpZ249 ImNlbnRlciI+PGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cDovLzc4ODEyMjE2MDM1MDVAd3d3LmFtYXppbmdhY3Rp b24ubmV0L3Rvb3RpZ2h0Lmh0bWwiPg0KPGltZyBzcmM9Imh0dHA6Ly8xNTE1MDE0ODkxMzc2 M0B3d3cuYW1hemluZ2FjdGlvbi5uZXQvdG9vdGlnaHQuYm1wIiB3aWR0aD0iNDY4IiBoZWln aHQ9IjYwIj48L2E+DQo8Ym9keT48IU1lbGlzc2E+PCFObyB3YXkuPjwhRm9yZ2V0IGl0Pjwh TGVhaD4NCjxicj4NCjxicj4NCjxocj4NCjxwPiA8L3A+DQo8YnI+DQo8YnI+PCFHYWJyaWVs YT4NCjxicj48IUhhaWxleT4NCjxicj48IUVsaXphYmV0aD4NCjxicj48IUVyaWthPg0KPGJy PjwhRm9yZ2V0IGl0Pg0KPGJyPjwhTWVsYW5pZT4NCjxhIGhyZWY9Imh0dHA6Ly8yODg2MzI2 MDcxNDI3MkB3d3cuYW1hemluZ2FjdGlvbi5uZXQvdS5waHA/aWQ9OWZhbnNAY3NlLnBzdS5l ZHUiPlJlPCFBeWFubz5tbzwhQXV0dW1uPnZlIE08IVNoZWxieT5lDQo8L0JPRFk+PC9IVE1M Pg== ------=_NextPart_000_0001_5E875E87.119C119C-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 22 23:12:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 22 23:12:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30452 invoked by uid 1020); 22 May 2003 23:12:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30448 invoked from network); 22 May 2003 23:12:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 May 2003 23:12:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3D1FD19A68; Thu, 22 May 2003 10:12:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7F0241998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 May 2003 10:11:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Fco.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] yet another 9load change Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 16:10:58 +0200 I changed 9load to use snprint instead of sprint and enforce limits in a couple of places. The changed files (which still includes the [$var] thing) are at /n/sources/export/nemo/sys/src/boot/pc and can be pulled using replica. If you are interested just in the safety changes (buf. limits), you can diff those files wrt the distributed ones, and apply just them. hth From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 23 00:28:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 23 00:28:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31611 invoked by uid 1020); 23 May 2003 00:28:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31607 invoked from network); 23 May 2003 00:28:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 May 2003 00:28:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3050E19A64; Thu, 22 May 2003 11:28:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C28D219A64 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 May 2003 11:27:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19Irn1-000296-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 22 May 2003 16:15:31 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "boyd, rounin" Message-ID: <3ecce88c$0$28994$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net> Organization: Noos Subject: [9fans] the template Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 15:14:52 GMT it wound up in sydney and was prompty stolen over the weekend. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 23 00:47:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 23 00:47:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31887 invoked by uid 1020); 23 May 2003 00:47:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31883 invoked from network); 23 May 2003 00:47:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 May 2003 00:47:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E89B219A6C; Thu, 22 May 2003 11:47:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from wintermute.cse.psu.edu (wintermute.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.5]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9F91F19A66 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 May 2003 11:46:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from boleita-ras1-203.ras.ccs.cantv.net (boleita-ras1-203.ras.ccs.cantv.net [200.44.75.204]) by wintermute.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server (Backup MX)) with SMTP id 0355E73CBD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 May 2003 11:46:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from daniel-chandler.co.uk ([124.136.111.99]) by tot09.freeserve.co.uk (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id 19066 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 May 2003 10:59:33 -0500 Received: from [146.110.90.71] by web9902.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 22 May 2003 10:59:31 -0500 From: "Marisa" To: "" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_5F131D4D.1D4D2478" Subject: [9fans] Melissa- Girls too Tight 244023822 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 10:59:26 -0500 ------=_NextPart_000_0003_5F131D4D.1D4D2478 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_5F131D4D.1D4D2478" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PEhUTUw+DQo8IWVuam95IDstKT48IUFzaGxleT48IUplbm5hPjwhS3Jpc3Rlbj48IU1vbGx5 PjwhTGVhaD48IUFuZ2VsYT48IUdhYnJpZWxhPjwhQWxpY2lhPjwhTWFyaXNzYT48IUplc3Np Y2E+PCFXaHkgZGlkIHNoZSBkbyBpdD8+PCFCcmlkZ2V0PjwhTWlyYW5kYT4NCjxIRUFEPg0K PCFTYW1hbnRoYT4NCjxUSVRMRT5SQTwhV0hhdCBoYXZlIHlvdSBiZWVuIHVwIHRvPz5XIEZB PCFBbGV4YT5STSBTRTwhQ2FpdGxpbj5YPC9USVRMRT4NCjwhSnVsaWE+DQo8TUVUQSBodHRw LWVxdWl2PUNvbnRlbnQtVHlwZSBjb250ZW50PSJ0ZXh0L2h0bWw7IGNoYXJzZXQ9aXNvLTg4 NTktMSI+DQo8IUVtbWE+PCFEaWRuJ3Qga25vdyB0aGV5IGNvdWxkIGRvIGl0Lj48IUF1dHVt bj48IUthcmluYT4NCjwvSEVBRD4NCjxwIGFsaWduPSJjZW50ZXIiPjxhIGhyZWY9Imh0dHA6 Ly82NTIwMjM1MjExMTk3MkB3d3cuYW1hemluZ2FjdGlvbi5uZXQvdG9vdGlnaHQuaHRtbCI+ DQo8aW1nIHNyYz0iaHR0cDovLzMwNjI4NTg1MTkyNDFAd3d3LmFtYXppbmdhY3Rpb24ubmV0 L3Rvb3RpZ2h0LmJtcCIgd2lkdGg9IjQ2OCIgaGVpZ2h0PSI2MCI+PC9hPg0KPGJvZHk+PCFH cmFjZT48IVBhaWdlPjwhUGljcyBmcm9tIGxhc3QgbmlnaHQuPjwhQ2Fzc2lkeT4NCjxicj4N Cjxicj4NCjxocj4NCjxwPiA8L3A+DQo8YnI+DQo8YnI+PCFDYXNzaWR5Pg0KPGJyPjwhQXNp YT4NCjxicj48IUFsZXhpYT4NCjxicj48IVRhYml0aGE+DQo8YnI+PCFTeWRuZXk+DQo8YnI+ PCFJdCdzIHJlYWR5IGZvciB5b3U+DQo8YSBocmVmPSJodHRwOi8vNjY1NjIzMzg1MTIxMDhA d3d3LmFtYXppbmdhY3Rpb24ubmV0L3UucGhwP2lkPTlmYW5zQGNzZS5wc3UuZWR1Ij5SZTwh WXVpPm1vPCFBbGljaWE+dmUgTTwhQWx5c3NhPmUNCjwvQk9EWT48L0hUTUw+ ------=_NextPart_000_0003_5F131D4D.1D4D2478-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 23 02:50:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 23 02:50:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 813 invoked by uid 1020); 23 May 2003 02:50:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 809 invoked from network); 23 May 2003 02:50:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 May 2003 02:50:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 834C519A65; Thu, 22 May 2003 13:50:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 44B0919A31 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 May 2003 13:49:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <93e4c33148b3550a9de771088a084298@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] VAIO ATI RAGE MOBILITY-M1 AGP 1024x768x16 lcd display In-Reply-To: <3ecc7d85$0$21580$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 13:49:50 -0400 > did you test it? i don't remember. it was long ago. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 23 06:22:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 23 06:22:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3791 invoked by uid 1020); 23 May 2003 06:22:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3787 invoked from network); 23 May 2003 06:22:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 May 2003 06:22:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7D6E619A7F; Thu, 22 May 2003 17:22:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.182]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4B52F199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 May 2003 17:21:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-18-234.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.18.234 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 May 2003 21:21:22 -0000 Message-ID: <3ECD4D18.2090809@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] 9c Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 17:20:08 -0500 Heyas, What was the fix for 9c that evades the bug produced with the linker: lock: undefined: _tas (738) CALL ,_tas+0(SB) I can't find the fix in my archives. Don From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 23 06:23:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 23 06:23:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3801 invoked by uid 1020); 23 May 2003 06:23:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3797 invoked from network); 23 May 2003 06:23:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 May 2003 06:23:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6F66E19A92; Thu, 22 May 2003 17:23:17 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from zwallet1518.com (node-c-11e2.a2000.nl [62.194.17.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 55CAD199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 May 2003 17:22:41 -0400 (EDT) From: raymond guei To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="e9be4d52-945a-45dc-a985-f04bf1db00c6" Message-Id: <20030522212241.55CAD199DD@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] SOLICITATION FOR BUSINESS VENTURE AND PARTNERSHIP Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: ijumaguei@zwallet.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 23:21:26 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format --e9be4d52-945a-45dc-a985-f04bf1db00c6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Sir, SOLICITATION FOR BUSINESS VENTURE AND PARTNERSHIP I am the first son, of the late president of the Federal Republic Of Ivory = Coast, (General) Robert Guei, who was murdered along with the interior = minister on the 19th of September 2002 (please visit = http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-421336,00.html for complete = report on this incident.). May is gentle soul rest in peace. A curfew has = been imposed on me and my family in my country and the current president; = Mr.Laurent Gbagbo has ordered my immediate arrest and detention. A lot of my = father's close friends and relatives who are believed to have a connection = in the coup are currently behind prison bars and under unbearable torture. Fortunately I was smuggled out of the country by men still loyal to my late = father. Right now, I am safely away from all the trouble; Netherland has = offered me refuge. However all is not well, as President Laurent Gbagbo(the = current president)has virtually frozen all my father's entire known asset. = Face with this situation it is not wise for me to personally invest our = foreign fund neither is it advisable to continue to leave it under my = family's name. Hence I make this proposal to you, to graciously assist me, = take custody of Twenty-seven Million United States Dollars = (US$27,000,000.00). Also you are to front for me and my family in the areas = of business you deem profitable. This sum of US$27M has been secretly deposited into a reputable security = company, where it can easily be withdrawn or paid to a recommended = beneficiary. The fund will be released to you by the security company based = on my recommendations, on that note, you will be presented as my family = business partner who will be fronting for me and my family in any subsequent = ventures. To show my preparedness and appreciation to conduct this business with you, I = shall give you and your family US$5.4M of the funds and 20% commission on all = proceeds realize from the investment of this fund. Also US$1.5M is to be set = aside for any eventual cost that may occur in the process of this = transaction. Please, I need your full support and co-operation for the success of this = venture. I plead with you to treat as urgent and confidential. This is a = delicate issue, which demands a great degree of secrecy. Have my current = political status in mind. I sincerely will appreciate your express = acknowledgement of thereceipt of this mail. Yours truly, MR IJUMA GUEI. --e9be4d52-945a-45dc-a985-f04bf1db00c6-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 23 10:05:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 23 10:05:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8680 invoked by uid 1020); 23 May 2003 10:05:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8674 invoked from network); 23 May 2003 10:05:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 May 2003 10:05:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C752119A40; Thu, 22 May 2003 21:05:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D763B19991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 May 2003 21:04:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Channel casting From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <5329c9d63654f35be916727c54698040@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 10:07:00 +0900 > how so? Actually, I couldn't poit out what is really the problem in our marsv. It looks like we have no problem, however, sometime it hanged up, or depends on the speed of CPU etc. Then, I decided to use buffered channel to avoid this... I know it's not a very right solution, however, we couldn't live with this buffered channel. If you want to see our problem, you can find out it from our sources of marsv where we used a buffered channel, which I didn't want of course. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 23 15:08:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 23 15:08:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21386 invoked by uid 1020); 23 May 2003 15:08:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21379 invoked from network); 23 May 2003 15:08:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 May 2003 15:08:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7A0AE19A72; Fri, 23 May 2003 02:08:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AA181199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 May 2003 02:07:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4N66u5s018502 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 May 2003 08:06:56 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4N66ql2009584 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 May 2003 08:06:54 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id h4N66q127772 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 May 2003 08:06:52 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <200305230606.h4N66q127772@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/) Subject: [9fans] is motherboard Shuttle AK32E (VIA KT266A + VT8235C) supported? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 08:06:52 +0200 Just wondering if the Shuttle AK32E (VIA KT266A + VT8235C) is supported. Axel. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 23 17:44:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 23 17:44:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27885 invoked by uid 1020); 23 May 2003 17:44:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27881 invoked from network); 23 May 2003 17:44:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 May 2003 17:44:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 189D219A6F; Fri, 23 May 2003 04:44:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5889119A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 May 2003 04:43:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19J84s-0001Kw-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 23 May 2003 09:39:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "boyd, rounin" Message-ID: <3ecd5811$0$11290$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net> Organization: Noos References: <3ecce88c$0$28994$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net> Subject: [9fans] Re: the template Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 08:36:58 GMT "boyd, rounin" a écrit dans le message de news:3ecce88c$0$28994$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net... > it wound up in sydney and was prompty stolen over the weekend. i was acused as the thief. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 23 17:45:01 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 23 17:45:01 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27974 invoked by uid 1020); 23 May 2003 17:45:01 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27970 invoked from network); 23 May 2003 17:44:57 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 May 2003 17:44:57 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 47B6319A88; Fri, 23 May 2003 04:44:27 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6676619A06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 May 2003 04:43:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19J84s-0001L2-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 23 May 2003 09:39:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Adrian Tritschler Message-ID: Organization: Monash University Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable References: <3ecc7d85$0$21580$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] VAIO ATI RAGE MOBILITY-M1 AGP 1024x768x16 lcd display Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 08:37:14 GMT Philippe Anel wrote: > At 08:46 22/05/03 +0000, you wrote: >=20 >> "Russ Cox" a =E9crit dans le message de >> news:2aae62524e8ca87f9fb6bbaea9b9b756@plan9.bell-labs.com... >> > I think I made all the necessary changes to do a text mode install. >> > When you boot, you get dropped out to a prompt and then you run >> > inst/textonly. >> > >> > I think. >> >> did you test it? I've run an install from inst/textonly and had no problems with it. I have had problem arise when the install floppy partially detects the=20 video and tries/fails to load rio, leaving a garbled screen and no way=20 of forcing a text-only install Current status: My Plan9 network (three bits of hardware intended for other users) * Auth/CPU/KFS, runs Pegasus and Aquarela * pccpu, diskless * T21 laptop, drawterm under WinXP, or networkless as P9 terminal :-( Adrian --------------------------------------------------------------- Adrian Tritschler mailto:Adrian.Tritschler@its.monash.edu.au Latitude 38=B0S, Longitude 145=B0E, Altitude 50m, Shoe size 44 --------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 23 23:05:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 23 23:05:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2401 invoked by uid 1020); 23 May 2003 23:05:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2396 invoked from network); 23 May 2003 23:05:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 May 2003 23:05:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D27B919A28; Fri, 23 May 2003 10:05:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7D12F19999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 May 2003 10:04:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8a7b860662bfdc964f3947c5a65b343c@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] VAIO ATI RAGE MOBILITY-M1 AGP 1024x768x16 lcd display In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 10:04:51 -0400 > Pegasus What is Pegasus? > * T21 laptop, drawterm under WinXP, or networkless as P9 terminal :-( What ethernet is on your T21 that it's networkless? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 23 23:11:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 23 23:11:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2603 invoked by uid 1020); 23 May 2003 23:11:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2596 invoked from network); 23 May 2003 23:11:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 May 2003 23:11:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EC1C319A0D; Fri, 23 May 2003 10:11:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A2A2A19A6A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 May 2003 10:10:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5b2174369b9c532c6b867044a5ae75b5@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Channel casting In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 10:10:44 -0400 > Actually, I couldn't poit out what is really the problem in our marsv. > It looks like we have no problem, however, sometime it hanged up, > or depends on the speed of CPU etc. Then, I decided to use buffered > channel to avoid this... I know it's not a very right solution, however, > we couldn't live with this buffered channel. If you want to see our > problem, you can find out it from our sources of marsv where we used > a buffered channel, which I didn't want of course. It sounds like you have a simple deadlock. If you put the unbuffered channel back and then wait for it to hang, you can inspect the process with acid -l thread pid threads() to get a list of what each thread is doing. If you look at the ones sending or receiving, you should be able to work out why the deadlock happens. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 23 23:54:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 23 23:54:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3632 invoked by uid 1020); 23 May 2003 23:54:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3628 invoked from network); 23 May 2003 23:54:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 May 2003 23:54:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 250ED19A77; Fri, 23 May 2003 10:54:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B6B1C199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 May 2003 10:53:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1cb653cbdabaa6f577e306b6806d3372@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] VAIO ATI RAGE MOBILITY-M1 AGP 1024x768x16 lcd display From: Sape Mullender In-Reply-To: <8a7b860662bfdc964f3947c5a65b343c@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 10:53:10 -0400 >> Pegasus > > What is Pegasus? Pegasus was a highly successful Esprit project carried out by the Universities of Cambridge and Twente. It produced Nemesis, one of the most interesting operating systems of all time. (couldn't resist) Sape From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 24 00:12:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 24 00:12:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3931 invoked by uid 1020); 24 May 2003 00:12:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3927 invoked from network); 24 May 2003 00:12:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 May 2003 00:12:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 51C9719A87; Fri, 23 May 2003 11:12:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5BC3819A04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 May 2003 11:11:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02128 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 May 2003 11:11:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h4NFBj500320 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 May 2003 11:11:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305231511.h4NFBj500320@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] VAIO ATI RAGE MOBILITY-M1 AGP 1024x768x16 lcd display In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 23 May 2003 10:04:51 EDT." <8a7b860662bfdc964f3947c5a65b343c@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 11:11:45 -0400 "Russ Cox" writes: > > > Pegasus > > What is Pegasus? Kenji Arisawa's web server. See http://plan9.aichi-u.ac.jp/ (mostly in Japanese). I'm more curious about what aquarela is. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 24 00:18:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 24 00:18:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3997 invoked by uid 1020); 24 May 2003 00:18:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3992 invoked from network); 24 May 2003 00:18:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 May 2003 00:18:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C1DB819A8A; Fri, 23 May 2003 11:18:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 83278199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 May 2003 11:17:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4NFHac16333; Fri, 23 May 2003 11:17:36 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: <64fb534b415ffcebca9cfe4a788b14ac@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] VAIO ATI RAGE MOBILITY-M1 AGP 1024x768x16 lcd display From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <200305231511.h4NFBj500320@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 11:17:18 -0400 > I'm more curious about what aquarela is. Nigel announced this already. http://www.9fs.org/dist/aquarela From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 24 00:25:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 24 00:25:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4085 invoked by uid 1020); 24 May 2003 00:25:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4081 invoked from network); 24 May 2003 00:25:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 May 2003 00:25:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 97C2819A8C; Fri, 23 May 2003 11:25:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 830B919A8C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 May 2003 11:24:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03864 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 May 2003 11:24:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h4NFO7503010 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 May 2003 11:24:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305231524.h4NFO7503010@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] VAIO ATI RAGE MOBILITY-M1 AGP 1024x768x16 lcd display In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 23 May 2003 11:17:18 EDT." <64fb534b415ffcebca9cfe4a788b14ac@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 11:24:07 -0400 > Nigel announced this already. http://www.9fs.org/dist/aquarela Ahh, the CIFS server. I'd forgotten the name. Thanks. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 24 00:53:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 24 00:53:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4419 invoked by uid 1020); 24 May 2003 00:53:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4415 invoked from network); 24 May 2003 00:53:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 May 2003 00:53:44 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BBED6199BE; Fri, 23 May 2003 11:53:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3461B199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 May 2003 11:52:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from patton.home (12-226-228-104.client.attbi.com[12.226.228.104]) by attbi.com (sccrmhc02) with SMTP id <20030523155202002002kjgfe>; Fri, 23 May 2003 15:52:02 +0000 Message-ID: <910d40a791450c3c2eb43cc7c99ba7e0@cs.cmu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: David Swasey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] u9fs bug Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 11:51:55 -0400 In u9fs.c, gid2user() may return nil but groupchange() assumes g is always non-nil. This causes u9fs to seg fault when, for example, creating a file in a directory that has a group id not defined in /etc/group. A simple fix is to have groupchange() handle the case when g is nil: /sys/src/cmd/unix/u9fs/u9fs.c:1320 a u9fs.c:1321,1322 > if(g == nil) > return -1; -dave From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 24 01:44:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 24 01:44:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5224 invoked by uid 1020); 24 May 2003 01:44:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5220 invoked from network); 24 May 2003 01:44:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 May 2003 01:44:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2F21D19A78; Fri, 23 May 2003 12:44:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0061F199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 May 2003 12:43:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19JFQR-0003eq-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 23 May 2003 17:29:47 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Steffen M. Boelaars" Message-ID: Organization: GraphicsCave Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Subject: [9fans] Installing plan9 on an SGI Indy/Indigo Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: newsgroups@graphicscave.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 16:29:33 GMT Hello, I want to install Plan9 on an SGI Indy and SGI Indigo system. But being quite new to this, I did not manage to find out how to do this. I searched on google and though this newsgroup/mailinglist but couldn't find any info on how to do the installation. If anyone could give me some help/hints or point me to a place with proper information about this, that would be quite appreciated. best regards, Steffen M. Boelaars From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 24 01:45:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 24 01:45:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5235 invoked by uid 1020); 24 May 2003 01:45:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5231 invoked from network); 24 May 2003 01:45:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 May 2003 01:45:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7D67519A81; Fri, 23 May 2003 12:45:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (mail.math.Princeton.EDU [128.112.18.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5B76419A2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 May 2003 12:44:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fine1008.math.Princeton.EDU (fine1008.math.princeton.edu [128.112.16.123]) by Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4NGins25365 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 May 2003 12:44:49 -0400 Received: from fine1008.math.princeton.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fine1008.math.Princeton.EDU (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4NGikv26182 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 May 2003 12:44:49 -0400 Message-Id: <200305231644.h4NGikv26182@fine1008.math.Princeton.EDU> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] is motherboard Shuttle AK32E (VIA KT266A + VT8235C) supported From: John Stalker Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 12:44:46 -0400 > Just wondering if the Shuttle AK32E (VIA KT266A + VT8235C) is supported. It should work. MSI KT3 Ultra2 works, and that is VIA KT266A + VT8235. It may give you warnings about "southbridge not recognized" but these seem to be mostly harmless. -- John Stalker Department of Mathematics Princeton University (609)258-6469 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 24 01:47:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 24 01:47:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5262 invoked by uid 1020); 24 May 2003 01:47:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5258 invoked from network); 24 May 2003 01:47:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 May 2003 01:47:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 087EA19A90; Fri, 23 May 2003 12:47:05 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C06F819A8E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 May 2003 12:46:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mero.morphisms.net (mero.morphisms.net [66.93.84.246]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76D1C24FAC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 May 2003 12:46:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mero.morphisms.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5E40F25B; Fri, 23 May 2003 12:46:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 12:46:45 -0400 From: "William K. Josephson" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Installing plan9 on an SGI Indy/Indigo Message-ID: <20030523164645.GA28567@mero.morphisms.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-No-archive: yes Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: On Fri, May 23, 2003 at 04:29:33PM +0000, Steffen M. Boelaars wrote: > I want to install Plan9 on an SGI Indy and SGI Indigo system. But being > quite new to this, I did not manage to find out how to do this. I searched > on google and though this newsgroup/mailinglist but couldn't find any info > on how to do the installation. The SGI bits are not distributed, so you're out of luck. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 24 01:49:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 24 01:49:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5296 invoked by uid 1020); 24 May 2003 01:49:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5292 invoked from network); 24 May 2003 01:49:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 May 2003 01:49:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 444E119A95; Fri, 23 May 2003 12:49:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C3ADB199EE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 May 2003 12:48:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4NGmrc23157; Fri, 23 May 2003 12:48:53 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: <13575ce097d04cb423d88db2bb512598@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Installing plan9 on an SGI Indy/Indigo From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 12:48:52 -0400 > I want to install Plan9 on an SGI Indy and SGI Indigo system. The second edition of Plan 9 ran on the Indy if not also the Indigo, but that port has not been kept up. Unfortunately it's my understanding that we don't have the rights to release the old code for free. Sorry. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 24 01:53:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 24 01:53:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5357 invoked by uid 1020); 24 May 2003 01:53:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5353 invoked from network); 24 May 2003 01:53:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 May 2003 01:53:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7F9A619A2C; Fri, 23 May 2003 12:53:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 78DD219A97 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 May 2003 12:52:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <559529-26498>; Fri, 23 May 2003 12:51:31 -0400 Message-ID: <017301c3214b$6f40fe20$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [9fans] memory stick Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 18:50:35 +0200 i have some mad plan to put the nvram on it for my cpu/auth/fs/etc server. any suggestions/objections? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 24 01:57:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 24 01:57:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5423 invoked by uid 1020); 24 May 2003 01:57:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5419 invoked from network); 24 May 2003 01:57:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 May 2003 01:57:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C48B19A7D; Fri, 23 May 2003 12:57:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 690BC19AA0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 May 2003 12:56:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4NGugc23726; Fri, 23 May 2003 12:56:42 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: <277994c29bae7149409e1f21e291fae7@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <017301c3214b$6f40fe20$e3944251@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 12:56:42 -0400 put the whole disk on it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 24 02:41:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 24 02:41:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5943 invoked by uid 1020); 24 May 2003 02:41:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5939 invoked from network); 24 May 2003 02:41:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 May 2003 02:41:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0CC7119A97; Fri, 23 May 2003 13:41:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9A6E919A8F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 May 2003 13:40:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <213320-27073>; Fri, 23 May 2003 13:38:56 -0400 Message-ID: <002601c32152$0fd8b0c0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3ecce88c$0$28994$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net> <3ecd5811$0$11290$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the template MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 19:38:01 +0200 i _believe_ the accuser was the one who stole the template. cherchez la femme ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 24 02:58:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 24 02:58:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6055 invoked by uid 1020); 24 May 2003 02:58:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6051 invoked from network); 24 May 2003 02:58:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 May 2003 02:58:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6F94919A96; Fri, 23 May 2003 13:58:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from swordfish (unknown [216.241.35.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7D75319A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 May 2003 13:57:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from matt by swordfish with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19JGnY-0002M0-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 May 2003 11:57:44 -0600 From: Matt Gushee To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the template Message-ID: <20030523175744.GD3246@swordfish> References: <3ecce88c$0$28994$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net> <3ecd5811$0$11290$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net> <002601c32152$0fd8b0c0$e3944251@insultant.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <002601c32152$0fd8b0c0$e3944251@insultant.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Matt Gushee List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 11:57:44 -0600 On Fri, May 23, 2003 at 07:38:01PM +0200, boyd, rounin wrote: > i _believe_ the accuser was the one who stole the template. > > cherchez la femme ... Maybe I'm just dumb, but the relevance of this thread escapes me. Would you care to explain? -- Matt Gushee When a nation follows the Way, Englewood, Colorado, USA Horses bear manure through mgushee@havenrock.com its fields; http://www.havenrock.com/ When a nation ignores the Way, Horses bear soldiers through its streets. --Lao Tzu (Peter Merel, trans.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 24 03:01:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 24 03:01:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6106 invoked by uid 1020); 24 May 2003 03:01:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6102 invoked from network); 24 May 2003 03:01:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 May 2003 03:01:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1726B19AA4; Fri, 23 May 2003 14:01:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.188]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id CDFB219A7B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 May 2003 14:00:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-18-234.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.18.234 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2003 18:00:38 -0000 Message-ID: <3ECE6F84.5030607@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: the template References: <3ecce88c$0$28994$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net> <3ecd5811$0$11290$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net> <002601c32152$0fd8b0c0$e3944251@insultant.net> <20030523175744.GD3246@swordfish> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 13:59:16 -0500 > > >Maybe I'm just dumb, but the relevance of this thread escapes me. Would >you care to explain? > A Cheshire grin explains it all. D > http://deadchildren.org/~north_ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 25 11:44:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 25 11:44:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6775 invoked by uid 1020); 25 May 2003 11:44:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6771 invoked from network); 25 May 2003 11:44:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 May 2003 11:44:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 028B719B0C; Sat, 24 May 2003 22:44:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from CM-lcis-192-125.cm.vtr.net (CM-lcis-192-125.cm.vtr.net [200.86.192.125]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8CD9919AF0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 24 May 2003 22:42:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from drdoherty.fsnet.co.uk ([189.59.79.98]) by comic.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id 12994 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 24 May 2003 21:57:12 -0500 Received: from [233.15.35.54] by web9902.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 24 May 2003 21:57:10 -0500 From: "Gabrielle" To: "" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_7FA57FA5.3DDF03E6" Subject: [9fans] wbssmfsekr- Girls too Tight 21462 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 21:57:05 -0500 ------=_NextPart_000_0003_7FA57FA5.3DDF03E6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_7FA57FA5.3DDF03E6" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PEhUTUw+DQo8SEVBRD4NCjxUSVRMRT5UTzwhZnJ1eW50dGJkZT48IWdrcWVvZXF6bXo+TyBU STwheXpkaWdpcXpqdD5HSFQ8L1RJVExFPg0KPE1FVEEgaHR0cC1lcXVpdj1Db250ZW50LVR5 cGUgY29udGVudD0idGV4dC9odG1sOyBjaGFyc2V0PWlzby04ODU5LTEiPg0KPC9IRUFEPjwh a3phcXRkaGNycD4NCjxib2R5PjwhaWtqb3hzd3hibj4NCjwhd2R1Y3Z4a2VkYT48Zm9udCBj b2xvcj0iIzAwMDBGRiIgc2l6ZT0iNCI+PCFzamt1aWxzcWhvPllvPCF4cWRwdmN0Y3Z4PnVu ZyBzbHU8IW1pcHVsbGZ5bHg+dHR5IGg8IWR3c3dseXJ6YmM+b2VzIHRvPCFuY2R0d2drZnZz Pm8gdGlnPCFpaXdhZ3ZldWdwPmh0IHQ8IXdnYndkaW1tZno+byBmdWM8IXFzemVwdnBpd2g+ ay4gPGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL21ra2ttZmltdWgyNTI0NUBkYWlseXBvcm5vZmZlcnMuY29t L3Rvb3RpZ2h0Lmh0bWwiPjwhcWZldnB6dnF4Yz5DbDwhYmhweGliZ3NwZT5pY2sgDQpoZTwh enJvcmdubXV3eT5yZSBuPCFnZWVkZ3l2eW9iPm93IHRvIGM8IXhreW9nZHlpZHo+dW0gd2E8 IXFud3VncWR6eGQ+dGNoIHRoPCFpbXNncWdzYm9iPmVtIG1vPCFqbm5ucGllaXhkPmFuIGFz IHRoZTwhZHZiZWNpcXhiYz55IGFyZSBmdTwhaGtpb3h4aWpuej5ja2VkIGI8IXptbXVwcW16 bmQ+eTwhcGVsY2Zvc25kYj4gPCFlcG5jZHR3Z2tlPjEwIGluYzwha2FlbnJtY3phej5oIGNv PCFmbGx0dndzZW1pPmNrcy4uPC9hPjwvZm9udD48IXlkanhod2lyZXM+PGZvbnQgc2l6ZT0i NSI+PCF4d2hzZWF5ZW51Pg0KPGJyPg0KPC9mb250Pjxicj4NCjxocj4NCjxwPiA8L3A+PCFw dnZkZmdjcHd0Pg0KDQo8IXBieW5vZWlydnE+PGJyPg0KPCFwemR5b2xsbG5nPjxicj4NCjwh a3hsYXRxbHZxbD48YnI+DQo8IXN6bW16ZWt5aXg+PGJyPg0KPCFlcHBkdWN2eGt4Pjxicj4N CjwhemJvaWdkbWx3aD48YnI+DQo8YSBocmVmPSJodHRwOi8vZGxlZ3RobWpheTg2OTlAYW1h emluZ2FjdGlvbi5uZXQvdS5waHA/aWQ9OWZhbnNAY3NlLnBzdS5lZHUiPlI8IWVzanNsbmFu dHE+ZW1vPCFzZHFta3F5ZnFrPnZlIE08IXZwZmRkY2Z4dXg+ZSBGcjwhbndjd3VyYnprYz5v bSB5PCFzZWJxcmhydXl0Pm91ciBtYTwhYmZsemp6bHVhdT5pbDwheHVlY255bG9tcj5pbmcg bGk8IWpiaGppbnd3aGk+c3Q8L2E+DQo8L0JPRFk+PC9IVE1MPg== ------=_NextPart_000_0003_7FA57FA5.3DDF03E6-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun May 25 23:46:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun May 25 23:46:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20218 invoked by uid 1020); 25 May 2003 23:46:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20214 invoked from network); 25 May 2003 23:46:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 May 2003 23:46:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3299019AE9; Sun, 25 May 2003 10:46:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E8FD19981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 25 May 2003 10:44:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <07646f021c0237c8c7a1fc9f6740581f@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] 48-bit lba Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 10:44:45 -0400 I put code to handle 48-bit LBA mode (for drives >137GB) into the sdata driver. It seems to work (meaning blocks written with it turned off and turned on go to the same place on disk for the 137GB addressable in either mode), but it would benefit from a reading by someone else who understands 48-bit LBA mode. 9fs sources yesterday -d -0524 /n/sources/plan9/sys/src/9/pc/sdata.c Thanks. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 26 00:12:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 26 00:12:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20561 invoked by uid 1020); 26 May 2003 00:12:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20557 invoked from network); 26 May 2003 00:12:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 May 2003 00:12:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9A91919AFC; Sun, 25 May 2003 11:12:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E51C219981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 25 May 2003 11:11:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <212581-32089>; Sun, 25 May 2003 11:11:06 -0400 Message-ID: <02cb01c322cf$bc940de0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [9fans] Software Repository Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 17:10:10 +0200 i seem to have beaten it back into shape: http://www.insultant.net/repo and updated the wiki to reflect this. iirc, i first did this on a sunday; bored/sunday/paris ... you do the math :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon May 26 20:28:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon May 26 20:28:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22376 invoked by uid 1020); 26 May 2003 20:28:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22372 invoked from network); 26 May 2003 20:28:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 May 2003 20:28:38 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9A4A819A19; Mon, 26 May 2003 07:28:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from XMAIL.asuch.cas.cz (clusterb.asuch.cas.cz [147.231.136.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE2A519981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 May 2003 07:27:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from picture ([147.231.139.42]) by XMAIL.asuch.cas.cz with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Mon, 26 May 2003 13:27:45 +0200 Message-ID: <003401c32379$d4395d10$2a8be793@gli.cas.cz> From: "pac" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 May 2003 11:27:45.0463 (UTC) FILETIME=[D432F470:01C32379] Subject: [9fans] db hosting Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 13:27:45 +0200 Hi, folks! I'm looking for the guy who offered me hosting of my small database on his machine -- I've lost his address due to mailbox crash (lab's win machine :-((( thanks, ++pac. --- Odchozí zpráva neobsahuje viry. Zkontrolováno antivirovým systémem AVG (http://www.grisoft.cz). Verze: 6.0.476 / Virová báze: 273 - datum vydání: 24.4.2003 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 27 05:37:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 27 05:37:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31142 invoked by uid 1020); 27 May 2003 05:37:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31138 invoked from network); 27 May 2003 05:37:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 May 2003 05:37:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C0ED219A70; Mon, 26 May 2003 16:37:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from thefrayedknot.armory.com (thefrayedknot.armory.com [192.122.209.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8842419999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 May 2003 16:36:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 15205 invoked by uid 1000); 26 May 2003 20:35:55 -0000 From: Andrew To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] db hosting Message-ID: <20030526203555.GA15191@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <003401c32379$d4395d10$2a8be793@gli.cas.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <003401c32379$d4395d10$2a8be793@gli.cas.cz> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 13:35:55 -0700 I think that was me. email me off the list about stuff. On Mon, May 26, 2003 at 01:27:45PM +0200, pac wrote: > Hi, folks! > > I'm looking for the guy who offered me hosting of my small database on his > machine -- I've lost his address > due to mailbox crash (lab's win machine :-((( > > thanks, > ++pac. > > > > --- > Odchoz? zpr?va neobsahuje viry. > Zkontrolov?no antivirov?m syst?mem AVG (http://www.grisoft.cz). > Verze: 6.0.476 / Virov? b?ze: 273 - datum vyd?n?: 24.4.2003 > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 27 07:04:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 27 07:04:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32326 invoked by uid 1020); 27 May 2003 07:04:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32322 invoked from network); 27 May 2003 07:04:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 May 2003 07:04:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D9C1619A82; Mon, 26 May 2003 18:04:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lycos.co.uk (24-205-100-246.rno-cres.charterpipeline.net [24.205.100.246]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8985C19999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 May 2003 18:03:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp-server1.cfdenselr.com ([7.138.200.229]) by qnx.mdrost.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2003 10:02:17 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp4.cyberemailings.com) (212.47.11.53) by m1.gns.snv.thisdomainl.com with esmtp; 26 Apr 2003 10:48:22 +1100 Message-ID: From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V10.0.4510 Subject: [9fans] vccwldxxxofwjbisebymxqbkrvb vagqpnilj nnjuvnaorguctiadqbjqtlk Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 03:27:36 +0700 U1RPUCBQQVlJTkcgRk9SIFBPUk4hISEgICAgdg0KVGhlIFdvcmxkJ3MgRklS U1QgQWJzb2x1dGVseSBGUkVFIEFkdWx0IE1lZ2FzaXRlIQ0KDQpodHRwOi8v eWxrdi5pbmNyZWRpYmxlb2ZmZXIudHYvZnN3LzExLyAgIGZsDQoNCi1IT1Qg R0lSTFMgT04gV0VCQ0FNDQotTGl2ZSBTZXggU2hvd3MNCi1GdWxsLUxlbmd0 aCBNb3ZpZXMgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBocGMNCi1CZWF1 dGlmdWwgUGljdG9yaWFscw0KLUVyb3RpYyBTdG9yaWVzIGFuZCBHYW1lcw0K LURpZCB3ZSBtZW50aW9uIGl0cyBGUkVFID8gICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg cWJkdw0KDQpBTEwgWU9VIE5FRUQgSVMgWU9VUiBFTUFJTCBBRERSRVNTIFRP IEpPSU4hISEgICAgICAgZ2UNCg0KQ2hlY2sgdXMgb3V0IQ0KICAgICAgIA0K aHR0cDovL3ljd2kuaW5jcmVkaWJsZW9mZmVyLnR2L2Zzdy8xMS8gICBqd21k DQoNCihKdXN0IGVudGVyIHlvdXIgZW1haWwgYWRkcmVzcywgYW5kIHlvdSB3 aWxsIHJlY2VpdmUgeW91ciANCnVzZXJuYW1lIGFuZCBwYXNzd29yZCBpbiB0 aGUgbWFpbCEpDQoNCm0NCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQpodHRwOi8v cmpkc2l1Z24uaW5jcmVkaWJsZW9mZmVyLnR2L2Zzdy9yZW0v From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 27 18:29:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 27 18:29:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26506 invoked by uid 1020); 27 May 2003 18:29:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26501 invoked from network); 27 May 2003 18:29:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 May 2003 18:29:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1251A19B14; Tue, 27 May 2003 05:29:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DDA9A19B12 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 May 2003 05:28:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19Kagb-0002rd-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 27 May 2003 10:24:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "boyd, rounin" Message-ID: <3ece6683$0$4386$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net> Organization: Noos References: <017301c3214b$6f40fe20$e3944251@insultant.net>, <277994c29bae7149409e1f21e291fae7@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 09:22:02 GMT > put the whole disk on it. well they only had 128Mb, so i just had to buy that one :) not exactly an RL-02 ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 27 18:30:08 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 27 18:30:08 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26532 invoked by uid 1020); 27 May 2003 18:30:08 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26528 invoked from network); 27 May 2003 18:30:05 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 May 2003 18:30:05 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8D5AD19B1A; Tue, 27 May 2003 05:29:31 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A961E19B0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 May 2003 05:28:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19Kagc-0002rj-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 27 May 2003 10:24:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Ralph Corderoy Message-ID: <18d7.3ed20498.ee7f2@blake.inputplus.co.uk> Organization: InputPlus Ltd. References: <20030501160047.7231.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu>, <3EB90B63.30401@ameritech.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 09:22:18 GMT Hi northern snowfall, > // returns true if all slots EQUATE to val > // returns false if all slots do NOT equate to val s/all slots do/any slot does/ > // side effects: equates *pos to the first slot that tests false > int > gotvalue/*?*/(int * a, uint len, int val, uint * pos) > { > uint ua; > for(ua = 0; ua < len; ua++) { > if(a[ua] != val) { > *pos = ua; > return false; > } > } > return true; > } 99% of code comments in the world are worthless. Tact-sucks-ly, -- Ralph Corderoy. http://inputplus.co.uk/ralph/ http://troff.org/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 27 18:33:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 27 18:33:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26607 invoked by uid 1020); 27 May 2003 18:33:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26603 invoked from network); 27 May 2003 18:33:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 May 2003 18:33:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 97B5719B1C; Tue, 27 May 2003 05:33:17 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E9C5219B0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 May 2003 05:32:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19Kagb-0002rX-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 27 May 2003 10:24:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Steffen M. Boelaars" Message-ID: Organization: GraphicsCave Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit References: , <13575ce097d04cb423d88db2bb512598@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Installing plan9 on an SGI Indy/Indigo Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: newsgroups@graphicscave.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 09:21:50 GMT > The second edition of Plan 9 ran on the Indy if not also the Indigo, > but that port has not been kept up. Unfortunately it's my understanding > that we don't have the rights to release the old code for free. Well, no-one said I would want it just for free. Are there any options? Steffen From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 27 18:37:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 27 18:37:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26723 invoked by uid 1020); 27 May 2003 18:37:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26718 invoked from network); 27 May 2003 18:37:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 May 2003 18:37:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9B68219B19; Tue, 27 May 2003 05:37:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B59F19B16 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 May 2003 05:36:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19Kagc-0002rw-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 27 May 2003 10:24:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Sean Dolan Message-ID: <3ED2264F.3020406@charter.net> Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] page: can't find $wsys Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 09:22:47 GMT Hi people, I created the primary partition (1.2Gb) and filesystem (default), and told the installer where to locate the iso. The installation seemed to be progressing smoothly untill I got to: Task to do [copydist]: After hitting return I got ------------------------------------------ page: can't find $wsys and then the BCOD (Blinking Cursor of Death) :) I had tried the net install and gotten the same message, so I wgot the iso and copied it to a fat partition and here I am. -- Sean Dolan From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 27 18:38:02 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 27 18:38:02 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26757 invoked by uid 1020); 27 May 2003 18:38:02 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26753 invoked from network); 27 May 2003 18:38:01 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 May 2003 18:38:01 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 04B3619B1D; Tue, 27 May 2003 05:37:31 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 55FC719B1E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 May 2003 05:36:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19Kagc-0002rq-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 27 May 2003 10:24:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Ralph Corderoy Message-ID: <18a0.3ed2038a.929e4@blake.inputplus.co.uk> Organization: InputPlus Ltd. References: <20030501160047.7231.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu>, <20030507124006.D26796@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 09:22:29 GMT Hi Lucio, > I don't go along with that. Consider the conventional linear search > of an array: > > int a[100]; > int x, v; > > ... > > x = 0; > while (x < 100 && a[x] != v) { > ++x; > } > > (or whatever version you prefer). > > At the end, you always have to determine whether you found the desired > element or exceeded the array bounds. > ... > This particular problem has bugged me for decades :-) I go along with > Doug that exception handling can hide the extremely uninteresting code > involved in dealing with rare or "off band" conditions. Python solves this particular problem like this: a = [1, 2, 3] for x in range(len(a)): if a[x] == 42: print x break else: print -1 The for's else clause is only executed if a natural end to the loop is reached, i.e. you don't break out of it. Cheers, -- Ralph Corderoy. http://inputplus.co.uk/ralph/ http://troff.org/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 27 18:42:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 27 18:42:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27029 invoked by uid 1020); 27 May 2003 18:42:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27025 invoked from network); 27 May 2003 18:42:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 May 2003 18:42:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4CC0C19B25; Tue, 27 May 2003 05:42:18 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from larch (unknown [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C644E19B21 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 May 2003 05:41:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <61e1150fffe9c307a010b794bd6d4ab2@snellwilcox.com> From: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Installing plan9 on an SGI Indy/Indigo In-Reply-To: <483741857@snellwilcox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-zypnxnftskdlmsyqfkginukwcz" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 10:41:53 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-zypnxnftskdlmsyqfkginukwcz Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I reckon the only chance would be to find a second hand 2nd edition CDROM. -Steve --upas-zypnxnftskdlmsyqfkginukwcz Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 10:21:50 +0100 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu bcc: "Steve Simon" From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sender: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Importance: normal Priority: normal Subject: Re: [9fans] Installing plan9 on an SGI Indy/Indigo Message-Id: <483741857@snellwilcox.com> X-MIME-Engine: v0.90 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Id: <483741857-1@snellwilcox.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > The second edition of Plan 9 ran on the Indy if not also the Indigo, > but that port has not been kept up. Unfortunately it's my understanding > that we don't have the rights to release the old code for free. Well, no-one said I would want it just for free. Are there any options? Steffen --upas-zypnxnftskdlmsyqfkginukwcz-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 27 18:50:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 27 18:50:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27324 invoked by uid 1020); 27 May 2003 18:50:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27320 invoked from network); 27 May 2003 18:50:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 May 2003 18:50:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5267419B1E; Tue, 27 May 2003 05:50:18 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.188]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B22F919B0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 May 2003 05:49:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-46-211.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.46.211 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 May 2003 09:49:32 -0000 Message-ID: <3ED3426A.8060705@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: ralph@inputplus.co.uk Subject: Re: [9fans] same functions everywhere References: <20030501160047.7231.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu>, <3EB90B63.30401@ameritech.net> <18d7.3ed20498.ee7f2@blake.inputplus.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 05:48:10 -0500 > > >>// returns false if all slots do NOT equate to val >> >s/all slots do/any slot does/ > You're, like, misreading the grammar. If any of single slot does not equate to said value, then, the slots, as a group, can not all equate to said value. Like, for sure. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 27 19:31:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 27 19:31:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28725 invoked by uid 1020); 27 May 2003 19:31:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28721 invoked from network); 27 May 2003 19:31:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 May 2003 19:31:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4E64719B0D; Tue, 27 May 2003 06:31:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from pandora.afflictions.org (asylum.afflictions.org [64.7.134.90]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D528419A67 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 May 2003 06:30:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by pandora.afflictions.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 620285A4B9; Tue, 27 May 2003 06:31:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Damian Gerow To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20030527103103.GC48672@afflictions.org> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.8-RC on a i386 X-GPG-Fingerprint: B3D7 D901 A53A 1A99 BFD6 E6DF 9F3B 742B C288 9CC9 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Subject: [9fans] 9fans in Canada? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 06:31:03 -0400 Out of curiousity, are there any 9fans here who live in South Western Ontario, Canada? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 27 19:44:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 27 19:44:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29075 invoked by uid 1020); 27 May 2003 19:44:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29071 invoked from network); 27 May 2003 19:44:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 May 2003 19:44:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F192619B2A; Tue, 27 May 2003 06:44:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E759019AF2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 May 2003 06:43:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <58f3b8162f5de5b2eb16d2f34c7dc0e8@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Installing plan9 on an SGI Indy/Indigo From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-dlopagcqnoeozvjtytnyfoowds" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 11:41:09 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-dlopagcqnoeozvjtytnyfoowds Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit if there is a Linux port to the same machines, and that source has been made available, it would make it easier to create a new Plan 9 implementation for the SGI that could be released with less fuss. a reasonable chunk of the MIPS support required in l.s and for trap handling is not actually SGI-specific, but the device and graphics subsystems are definitely peculiar to SGI. --upas-dlopagcqnoeozvjtytnyfoowds Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 1054028075:20:02412:91; Tue, 27 May 2003 09:34:35 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2108931; 27 May 2003 9:34 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 97B5719B1C; Tue, 27 May 2003 05:33:17 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E9C5219B0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 May 2003 05:32:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19Kagb-0002rX-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 27 May 2003 10:24:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Steffen M. Boelaars" Message-ID: Organization: GraphicsCave Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit References: , <13575ce097d04cb423d88db2bb512598@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Installing plan9 on an SGI Indy/Indigo Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: newsgroups@graphicscave.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 09:21:50 GMT > The second edition of Plan 9 ran on the Indy if not also the Indigo, > but that port has not been kept up. Unfortunately it's my understanding > that we don't have the rights to release the old code for free. Well, no-one said I would want it just for free. Are there any options? Steffen --upas-dlopagcqnoeozvjtytnyfoowds-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 27 20:53:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 27 20:53:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30492 invoked by uid 1020); 27 May 2003 20:53:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30488 invoked from network); 27 May 2003 20:53:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 May 2003 20:53:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D392819B2E; Tue, 27 May 2003 07:53:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9557819B12 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 May 2003 07:52:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 39695 invoked from network); 27 May 2003 11:52:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO proweb.co.uk) (192.168.1.100) by juice.thebigchoice.com with SMTP; 27 May 2003 11:52:15 -0000 Message-ID: <3ED3516F.90203@proweb.co.uk> From: matt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] the backporting continues - /. stories maybe of interest Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 12:52:15 +0100 Some /. stories Network stack cloning / virtualization extensions to the FreeBSD kernel http://www.tel.fer.hr/zec/vimage/ /. story http://bsd.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/05/26/2117254 This is an old one, I didn't think it warranted it's own post Remote Direct Memory Access Over IP Posted by timothy on 27/04/03 18:22 doormat writes "Accessing another computer's memory over the internet? It might not be that far off http://www.commsdesign.com/story/OEG20030425S0043 Sounds like a great tool for clustering, especially considering that the new motherboards have gigabit ethernet and a link directly to the northbridge/MCH. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 27 21:45:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 27 21:45:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31447 invoked by uid 1020); 27 May 2003 21:45:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31443 invoked from network); 27 May 2003 21:45:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 May 2003 21:45:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC9B019B35; Tue, 27 May 2003 08:45:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.instantiated.ca (sara.instantiated.ca [216.123.185.99]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0A9F519B32 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 May 2003 08:44:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 23337 invoked from network); 27 May 2003 12:44:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (henry@192.168.0.101) by mail.instantiated.ca with RC4-SHA encrypted SMTP; 27 May 2003 12:44:53 -0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans in Canada? References: <20030527103103.GC48672@afflictions.org> Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed From: Henry Baragar Organization: Instantiated Software Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20030527103103.GC48672@afflictions.org> User-Agent: Opera7.10/Win32 M2 build 2840 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 08:44:50 -0400 Damian, There is at least one lurker (me) who bought and played with version 1, but has not done much with it since other than attend the BOFs when I go to Usenix. Venti looks very interesting and I am considering doing something with that. BTW, I live in Toronto. Regards, Henry > Out of curiousity, are there any 9fans here who live in South Western > Ontario, Canada? > -- Henry Baragar Principal, Technical Architecture 416-453-5626 Instantiated Software Inc. http://www.instantiated.ca From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 27 23:48:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 27 23:48:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1419 invoked by uid 1020); 27 May 2003 23:48:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1415 invoked from network); 27 May 2003 23:48:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 May 2003 23:48:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 263BE19A10; Tue, 27 May 2003 10:48:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1098119A10 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 May 2003 10:47:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue May 27 10:47:51 EDT 2003 Received: from 64.36.89.66 ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Tue May 27 10:47:48 EDT 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] page: can't find $wsys From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <3ED2264F.3020406@charter.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 10:47:53 -0400 Are you doing a text-only install? Is there any disk activity? Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 27 23:51:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 27 23:51:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1531 invoked by uid 1020); 27 May 2003 23:51:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1526 invoked from network); 27 May 2003 23:51:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 May 2003 23:51:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F16D919B44; Tue, 27 May 2003 10:51:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca (plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.140.200]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AA01B19B44 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 May 2003 10:50:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rcbilson@localhost) by plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3p2/8.9.3) id KAA20499 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 27 May 2003 10:51:38 -0400 From: Richard C Bilson Message-Id: <200305271451.KAA20499@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans in Canada? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 10:51:38 -0400 > From 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Tue May 27 06:32:34 2003 > > Out of curiousity, are there any 9fans here who live in South Western > Ontario, Canada? Sure. I'm at the University of Waterloo. Not doing anything 9ish as part of my job, unfortunately. I have noticed my colleagues opening up to the idea of Wily, though. - Richard From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue May 27 23:59:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue May 27 23:59:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1624 invoked by uid 1020); 27 May 2003 23:59:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1620 invoked from network); 27 May 2003 23:59:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 May 2003 23:59:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 041CD19B45; Tue, 27 May 2003 10:59:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D8FEE19B45 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 May 2003 10:58:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4REwNfD017345 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 May 2003 08:58:24 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4REwNIG001424 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 May 2003 08:58:23 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] the backporting continues - /. stories maybe of interest In-Reply-To: <3ED3516F.90203@proweb.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 08:58:23 -0600 (MDT) On Tue, 27 May 2003, matt wrote: > Remote Direct Memory Access Over IP such an old idea. Let's see, how old? Well if you don't flame me for being involved in such terrible ideas, consider this: - node exports NFS file system - exporter and client mmap same file - client stores to its mmap'ed file, does an msync, memory in process on server changes Voila: remote memory access over IP OK, enhance it: - make NFS coherent with a few mods - put a 'fast bypass' in the ethernet interrupt handler so that, in special cases, you bypass the nfs stack and put network data into the process memory directly. QED: MNFS, do a google and you'll find it. Ok, you don't want the interrupt handler in your way, right? You just want to dump your data into that procs memory, but still over IP over something. OK, google MINI for an interface we built long ago that does this too -- over IP over ATM, and ATM was the big mistake, but we believed DARPA :-( It's still pretty doable. People are acting like this is the Second Something or something. Yikes. Plan 9 guys never made the mistake of doing this stuff. It's basically dumb to worry about RDMA over lines that are 10s of ms in length. Oh, yes, for real fun, google the Japanese researchers who succeeded in putting a real NIC into the DIMM slots. Very cool. You want to make your way in the CS field? Simple. Calculate rough time of amnesia (hell, 10 years is plenty, probably 10 months is plenty), go to the dusty archives, dig out something fun, and go for it. It's worked for many people, and it can work for you. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 28 00:10:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 28 00:10:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1792 invoked by uid 1020); 28 May 2003 00:10:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1786 invoked from network); 28 May 2003 00:10:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 May 2003 00:10:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1AFD319B52; Tue, 27 May 2003 11:10:19 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.184]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id CF64319B43 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 May 2003 11:09:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-46-211.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.46.211 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 May 2003 15:09:31 -0000 Message-ID: <3ED38D6D.6000000@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans in Canada? References: <200305271451.KAA20499@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 11:08:13 -0500 > > >I have noticed my colleagues opening up >to the idea of Wily, though. > Gross... lets get a Sparc port going. Then you can use those kickass Sparc servers you guys have as the CPU. Get those colleagues of yours in a drawterm, at least. Waterloo seems pretty killer. Great profs and you host some pretty decent lectures, too. I was there a couple months ago for a lecture on perceiving TCP as a fractal. Ex Bell Labs employee, I think... Don > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 28 00:14:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 28 00:14:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1861 invoked by uid 1020); 28 May 2003 00:14:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1857 invoked from network); 28 May 2003 00:14:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 May 2003 00:14:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C4A7919B46; Tue, 27 May 2003 11:14:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.179]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 5768719A2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 May 2003 11:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-46-211.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.46.211 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 May 2003 15:13:14 -0000 Message-ID: <3ED38E4D.6060707@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] the backporting continues - /. stories maybe of interest References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 11:11:57 -0500 > > >It's worked for many people, and it can work for you. > I choose *you*, Morris worm!!! > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 28 00:39:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 28 00:39:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2285 invoked by uid 1020); 28 May 2003 00:39:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2281 invoked from network); 28 May 2003 00:39:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 May 2003 00:39:40 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4DCE419B4A; Tue, 27 May 2003 11:39:24 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from larch (unknown [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 19E0919A89 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 May 2003 11:38:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <094b57831efbf91725803a54cf26c909@snellwilcox.com> From: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] auth fun+games Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 16:38:31 +0100 Up until now I have been working with a single plan9 machine, I tried to attach another and am struggling with authentication. I have 2 kfs terminals, both booting off their own kfs disks. The desktop machine is temporarly running 'disk/kfscmd listen', and the listeners & keyfs detailed in cpurc. I am just trying to 9fs from the laptop to the desktop machine. On the desktop box I gave myself a password with auth/changeuser, giving the keyfs password again as I have no nvram partition yet. I setup /lib/ndb so both machines know what authdomain they are in and where their auth server is. At one point I am sure I could generate tickets using auth/debug, however now I just get: p9sk1 key: proto=p9sk1 dom=snellwilcox.com user=steve !password? successfully dialed auth server password for steve@snellwilcox.com [hit enter to skip test]: cannot decrypt ticket1 from auth server (bad t.num=0xffffff9f) auth server and you do not agree on key for steve@snellwilcox.com I have retyped the passwords several times but still get errors. I am running the current distribution's kernels. I have missed somthing but I cannot see what... -Steve From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 28 00:46:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 28 00:46:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2566 invoked by uid 1020); 28 May 2003 00:46:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2562 invoked from network); 28 May 2003 00:46:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 May 2003 00:46:45 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1EB74199B6; Tue, 27 May 2003 11:46:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7A72819B42 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 May 2003 11:44:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h4RFePnp017478 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 May 2003 17:40:26 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h4RFePok017477 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 27 May 2003 17:40:25 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] auth fun+games Message-ID: <20030527174024.T1029@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <094b57831efbf91725803a54cf26c909@snellwilcox.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <094b57831efbf91725803a54cf26c909@snellwilcox.com>; from steve.simon@snellwilcox.com on Tue, May 27, 2003 at 04:38:31PM +0100 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 17:40:24 +0200 On Tue, May 27, 2003 at 04:38:31PM +0100, steve.simon@snellwilcox.com wrote: > > Up until now I have been working with a single plan9 machine, > I tried to attach another and am struggling with authentication. > The quick reply is to try % auth/debug which I was thrilled to discover actually highlights a lot of misunderstandings. But I only skimmed over your note, so you may need deeper digging. Setting % echo debug > /mnt/factotum/ctl (and debug off when you're overwhelmed :-) also can help. But use /dev/kcons to catch the output, if you can. Good luck. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 28 00:51:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 28 00:51:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2706 invoked by uid 1020); 28 May 2003 00:51:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2702 invoked from network); 28 May 2003 00:51:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 May 2003 00:51:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 86DA119B4D; Tue, 27 May 2003 11:51:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2730419A64 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 May 2003 11:50:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4RFoHqt021043 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 May 2003 09:50:17 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4RFoHIG003847 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 May 2003 09:50:17 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] auth fun+games In-Reply-To: <094b57831efbf91725803a54cf26c909@snellwilcox.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 09:50:17 -0600 (MDT) I went through fun and games too. one thing I can tell you is to make sure you follow the instructions on the wiki EXACTLY. I screwed this up a countably infinite number of times. Dean's pages on the acl plan 9 site are also very helpful. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 28 00:57:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 28 00:57:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2749 invoked by uid 1020); 28 May 2003 00:57:12 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2745 invoked from network); 28 May 2003 00:57:12 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 May 2003 00:57:12 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 906EA19B54; Tue, 27 May 2003 11:56:59 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A1B2419B3C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 May 2003 11:55:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h4RFtXYp002905 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 May 2003 09:55:33 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h4RFtXRq002901 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 May 2003 09:55:33 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] auth fun+games In-Reply-To: <094b57831efbf91725803a54cf26c909@snellwilcox.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 09:55:33 -0600 (MDT) On Tue, 27 May 2003 steve.simon@snellwilcox.com wrote: > Up until now I have been working with a single plan9 machine, > I tried to attach another and am struggling with authentication. > in my case it has always been the 'dom=' and 'authdom=' entries in /net/ndb -- make sure they match on both sides. as has been suggested, auth/debug is your friend :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 28 01:16:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 28 01:16:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3059 invoked by uid 1020); 28 May 2003 01:16:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3055 invoked from network); 28 May 2003 01:16:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 May 2003 01:16:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8C90E19B48; Tue, 27 May 2003 12:16:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca (plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.140.200]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE8D319A68 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 May 2003 12:15:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rcbilson@localhost) by plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3p2/8.9.3) id MAA23113 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 27 May 2003 12:16:27 -0400 From: Richard C Bilson Message-Id: <200305271616.MAA23113@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans in Canada? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 12:16:27 -0400 > From 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Tue May 27 11:11:40 2003 > > >I have noticed my colleagues opening up > >to the idea of Wily, though. > > > Gross... lets get a Sparc port going. Then > you can use those kickass Sparc servers you > guys have as the CPU. > Get those colleagues of yours in a drawterm, > at least. Well, Linux pays the bills around here, so don't get your hopes up. Sure, it would be nice to have 9 on our V880, but the machines I get to play around with are ia64s. Which has led to some idle speculation on my part, but the idea of writing an EPIC compiler sounds like more than a spare-time project to me. I reserve the right to have a life. I only mention Wily because I have noted that a large part of the resistance to 9 in the unconverted centers around the UI. Baby steps... - Richard From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 28 01:29:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 28 01:29:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3281 invoked by uid 1020); 28 May 2003 01:29:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3277 invoked from network); 28 May 2003 01:29:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 May 2003 01:29:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EDFC119B55; Tue, 27 May 2003 12:29:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.188]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 09DF219B4F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 May 2003 12:27:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-46-211.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.46.211 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 May 2003 16:27:55 -0000 Message-ID: <3ED39FCD.90306@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans in Canada? References: <200305271616.MAA23113@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 12:26:37 -0500 > > >Well, Linux pays the bills around here, so don't get your hopes up. > ... >Sure, it would be nice to have 9 on our V880, > Oh hell yeah >but the machines I get to >play around with are ia64s. Which has led to some idle speculation on >my part, but the idea of writing an EPIC compiler sounds like more than >a spare-time project to me. I reserve the right to have a life. > What are the specs on the ia64s? I'm just curious.. >I only mention Wily because I have noted that a large part of the >resistance to 9 in the unconverted centers around the UI. Baby >steps... > Yeah, thats true. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 28 01:30:04 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 28 01:30:04 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3296 invoked by uid 1020); 28 May 2003 01:30:03 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3292 invoked from network); 28 May 2003 01:30:03 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 May 2003 01:30:03 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CFBAD19B57; Tue, 27 May 2003 12:29:28 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF56719B49 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 May 2003 12:28:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19KhF3-0003YB-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 27 May 2003 17:24:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Sean Dolan Message-ID: <3ED356B8.7020900@charter.net> Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <3ED2264F.3020406@charter.net>, Subject: Re: [9fans] page: can't find $wsys Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 16:23:44 GMT Russ Cox wrote: > Are you doing a text-only install? > Is there any disk activity? > > Russ > Yes Russ, text only. Rio failed to load (nvidia agp) so I opted for the text install. The plan was to get Plan9 installed, then work on the display problem. As far as disk activity, none that I could tell. Control key strokes ^c ^d, etc result in control characters being displayed on the screen. I think the FAQ, or perhaps the trouble shooting guide mentioned using ^d as a way to escape back to the previous task, but the only key stroke I could get to work was the ol' 3 fingered salute...Ctrl + Alt + Delete. Which of course, results in a reboot on my x86 box. If I knew what $wsys referred to I could probably trouble shoot this on my own. I just did another search and found a reference http://darkuncle.net/plan9/ saying "page: can't find $wsys" isnt an error message. And there is no progress displayed to the screen at this point. I'm going to start the install again and give it a good half hour (dual 1.2Ghz AMD 512Mb DDR) and see what's what. I'll post again... Thanks for the reply Russ. -- Sean Dolan From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 28 03:18:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 28 03:18:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4700 invoked by uid 1020); 28 May 2003 03:18:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4696 invoked from network); 28 May 2003 03:18:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 May 2003 03:18:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C128619B73; Tue, 27 May 2003 14:18:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8ABF319B6D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 May 2003 14:17:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <213500-1649>; Tue, 27 May 2003 14:16:04 -0400 Message-ID: <006901c3247b$e82dd140$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] the backporting continues - /. stories maybe of interest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 20:15:07 +0200 i have a vague recollection that you could do all sorts of weird stuff with the 8000 series VAX CI and that was some ~12 years ago. i know we [PRL] routed IP across it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 28 14:15:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 28 14:15:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16741 invoked by uid 1020); 28 May 2003 11:28:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16736 invoked from network); 28 May 2003 11:28:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 May 2003 11:28:37 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B183019B6F; Tue, 27 May 2003 22:27:38 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6049219B78 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 May 2003 22:23:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <882b180967688dfb91fbdb452bbbe94a@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] 48-bit LBA no more Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 22:23:41 -0400 Apparently I was working from an obsolete draft of the ATA-6 spec. I have no idea why it seemed to work on my disk. A bit disturbing, that. Maybe some disks implement both. Thanks to sah@softcardsystems for pointing out the real spec. I'm not going to have time to fix the 48-bit LBA code at least for a few weeks, so I backed out the changes. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 28 17:01:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 28 17:01:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31649 invoked by uid 1020); 28 May 2003 17:01:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31645 invoked from network); 28 May 2003 17:01:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 May 2003 17:01:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 56FDF199BC; Wed, 28 May 2003 04:01:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F029E19A17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 04:00:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <55fbc9b0ce416859947f27410c05b5d1@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] the backporting continues - /. stories maybe of interest From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <3ED3516F.90203@proweb.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 08:57:13 +0100 `backporting'? have you seen what they do? in Plan 9 (and from the same stock, early Inferno), the single stack was at an intermediate stage described by some data structures rooted in a single instance of the Fs structure. having more than one stack required allocating an Fs per stack, and changing functions to accept Fs* where needed. a bit tedious but otherwise fairly obvious and straightforward. user-level programs weren't much affected because you can bind what you like on /net and if it's somewhere else the dial string names it. you couldn't honestly get a paper out of it. what they did in the approach in the /. article is an interesting application of brute force: if you replicate the kernel environment (including user processes) you might well replicate the IP stack but it's almost a side effect. (i'm sure there's at least one paper in it. there's certainly at least one lesson.) i wonder if i can link my virtual card punch to a virtual card reader to do e-mail... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 28 17:44:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 28 17:44:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1109 invoked by uid 1020); 28 May 2003 17:44:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1105 invoked from network); 28 May 2003 17:44:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 May 2003 17:44:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7930019B40; Wed, 28 May 2003 04:44:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 31EF919A92 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 04:43:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19KwOg-0000L6-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 28 May 2003 09:34:58 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Aharon Robbins Message-ID: Organization: Pioneer Consulting, Ltd. References: <3ED3516F.90203@proweb.co.uk>, Subject: Re: [9fans] the backporting continues - /. stories maybe of interest Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 08:34:35 GMT In article , ron minnich <9fans@cse.psu.edu> wrote: >You want to make your way in the CS field? Simple. Calculate rough time of >amnesia (hell, 10 years is plenty, probably 10 months is plenty), go to >the dusty archives, dig out something fun, and go for it. > >It's worked for many people, and it can work for you. > >ron Alas. C.A.R. Hoare made this point in his 1980(!) ACM Turing Award Lecture, which I happened to read recently. It is chilling to see how little things have changed in this industry in 40 years! -- Aharon (Arnold) Robbins --- Pioneer Consulting Ltd. arnold@skeeve.com P.O. Box 354 Home Phone: +972 8 979-0381 Fax: +1 928 569 9018 Nof Ayalon Cell Phone: +972 51 297-545 D.N. Shimshon 99785 ISRAEL From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 28 17:45:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 28 17:45:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1127 invoked by uid 1020); 28 May 2003 17:45:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1123 invoked from network); 28 May 2003 17:45:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 May 2003 17:45:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E15A819B7E; Wed, 28 May 2003 04:45:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5130E19B42 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 04:44:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19KwOf-0000Kw-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 28 May 2003 09:34:57 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Sean Dolan Message-ID: <3ED37650.9060206@charter.net> Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <3ED2264F.3020406@charter.net> Subject: [9fans] Re: page: can't find $wsys Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 08:34:24 GMT Ok, I just needed to have a bit of patience. After "page: can't find $wsys" was displayed, I waited... 10 minutes later the task completed and the installation moved to the boot option task. (A simple incrementing # during the copy would have been nice) I chose to create a boot floppy. I'll add a grub entry later. That task completed and I was informed the installation had completed succesfully. Yaaaaaaaaa! So... put the Plan9 installation floppy back in so the state data could be written to it. Replace it with the boot floppy and reboot... PBS...Plan 9 from Bell Labs ELCR: 0C20 ( Approx 1/2 page of info that, if needed, I can post ) panic: exception/interrupt 14 Booooooooo! 14? why... thats my IDE controller interrupt. The partition I had the Plan 9 install util create, is a 1.2Gb primary partition at the beginning of a 30Gb HDD. The HDD is the 2nd on the secondary IDE. (/dev/hdd1 from within Debian) I mounted this partiton from Debian, and found 3 entries: -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 0 May 27 08:49 4e -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 180040 May 27 08:49 9load -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 518 May 27 09:41 plan9.ini I added debug=1 to plan9.ini, but it didn't produce any extra output at boot. -- Sean Dolan From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 28 18:05:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 28 18:05:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1791 invoked by uid 1020); 28 May 2003 18:05:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1787 invoked from network); 28 May 2003 18:05:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 May 2003 18:05:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D70719A88; Wed, 28 May 2003 05:05:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C62A119A32 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 05:04:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] the backporting continues - /. stories maybe of interest From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <55fbc9b0ce416859947f27410c05b5d1@caldo.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 02:04:38 -0700 I've seen virtual card punches connected to virtual card readers; that works. (At one time, my employer sent mail over that transport, with a sendmail at each end, and an RJE link thrown in too. Matching technologies, I suppose.) What's more amusing is connecting a virtual line printer (132 columns wide) to a virtual card reader (80 columns wide). As I recall, you get a combination of a virtual card jam and virtual printer jam. I forget what it takes to fix it; perhaps destruction of all relevant virtual machines, or at least virtual devices? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 28 19:48:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 28 19:48:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4666 invoked by uid 1020); 28 May 2003 19:48:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4662 invoked from network); 28 May 2003 19:48:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 May 2003 19:48:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E72D519B49; Wed, 28 May 2003 06:48:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8E46119991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 06:47:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <212637-4509>; Wed, 28 May 2003 06:47:39 -0400 Message-ID: <004901c32506$6e4430a0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <277994c29bae7149409e1f21e291fae7@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 12:46:43 +0200 > put the whole disk on it. i just put the whole [non tex] dist on it and have it booted [from disk] on my 600 series VAIO. needs a big of tinkering, but booting _straight_ off the memory stick on a randomly chosen machine would be a _cool thing_; walk up to machine, jam in memory stick and boot plan 9 :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 28 22:54:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 28 22:54:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8864 invoked by uid 1020); 28 May 2003 22:54:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8860 invoked from network); 28 May 2003 22:54:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 May 2003 22:54:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AAEA619A80; Wed, 28 May 2003 09:54:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from larch (unknown [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6CBBB19A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 09:53:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <17b96adfbd42df33ded4d0165f759d6b@snellwilcox.com> From: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] anyone worked on 9pm Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 14:53:50 +0100 Hi, Anyone done any work on 9pm to update it to the 4th edition? I am currently doing this but realised I may be repeating work already done. I plan to update only the file I/O part - I am not attempting the libg.h -> draw.h conversion. I am doing this using the borland C compiler as it is now free. Unless anyone already has a packaged gcc plan9 -> win32 distribution...? -Steve From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 28 23:08:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 28 23:08:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9024 invoked by uid 1020); 28 May 2003 23:08:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9020 invoked from network); 28 May 2003 23:08:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 May 2003 23:08:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 083EC19B78; Wed, 28 May 2003 10:08:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A80981998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 10:07:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed May 28 10:07:17 EDT 2003 Received: from 64.36.89.66 ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Wed May 28 10:07:15 EDT 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: page: can't find $wsys From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <3ED37650.9060206@charter.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 10:07:14 -0400 > and the installation moved to the boot option task. (A simple > incrementing # during the copy would have been nice) I chose to create a If you were running vga, you would have had this. > panic: exception/interrupt 14 > 14? why... thats my IDE controller interrupt. The partition I had the No it's not. It's a page fault. It's software interrupt (exception) 14. Try adding *nousbprobe=1 *noetherprobe=1 to plan9.ini on the boot floppy. If that doesn't help, try copying the 9load file from your install floppy to the boot floppy. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 28 23:18:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 28 23:18:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9157 invoked by uid 1020); 28 May 2003 23:18:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9153 invoked from network); 28 May 2003 23:18:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 May 2003 23:18:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CC9BD19B81; Wed, 28 May 2003 10:18:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A226819A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 10:17:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4SEH0qt029711 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 08:17:00 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4SEH0IG016127 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 08:17:00 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] the backporting continues - /. stories maybe of interest In-Reply-To: <55fbc9b0ce416859947f27410c05b5d1@caldo.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 08:17:00 -0600 (MDT) On Wed, 28 May 2003, Charles Forsyth wrote: > i wonder if i can link my virtual card punch to a virtual card reader > to do e-mail... > speaking of which, does anybody know if there is a program out there to take lines of text and display them as punch cards? I don't know why I want this, but I do. Manila is the preferred color. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 28 23:23:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 28 23:23:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9224 invoked by uid 1020); 28 May 2003 23:23:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9220 invoked from network); 28 May 2003 23:23:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 May 2003 23:23:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CCEAE19B84; Wed, 28 May 2003 10:23:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A3D519A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 10:22:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4SEMefD023976 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 08:22:40 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4SEMeIG016366 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 08:22:40 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] the backporting continues - /. stories maybe of interest In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 08:22:40 -0600 (MDT) On Wed, 28 May 2003, Geoff Collyer wrote: > I've seen virtual card punches connected to virtual card readers; that > works. (At one time, my employer sent mail over that transport, with > a sendmail at each end, and an RJE link thrown in too. Matching > technologies, I suppose.) oh, all right, the ASP story. ASP was an early IBM "multi-processor" ca. 1975. ASP = Attached Support Processor. Here is my memory of it. They connected (at my site) 2 370/158s via a channel (the magtape channel interface was the final low-level data path, of course). The attached processor saw a "virtual card reader" and the main processor submitted jobs via that channel to the ASP. At that point, of course, the ASP had its own tape drives and printers. This was allegedly easier to admin that two separate machines. Virtual card readers ... via magtape channels ... Now *that's* a kludge. Although V5 if memory serves did something similar, I guess, I never saw this but I did find a manual set once with a jcl(1) command. Actually, there has been progress. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 28 23:25:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 28 23:25:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9262 invoked by uid 1020); 28 May 2003 23:25:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9258 invoked from network); 28 May 2003 23:25:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 May 2003 23:25:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F240519B88; Wed, 28 May 2003 10:25:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 442C919A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 10:24:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4SEOSqt000401 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 08:24:28 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4SEORIG016441 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 08:24:27 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick In-Reply-To: <004901c32506$6e4430a0$e3944251@insultant.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 08:24:27 -0600 (MDT) On Wed, 28 May 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > i just put the whole [non tex] dist on it and have it booted [from disk] > on my 600 series VAIO. needs a big of tinkering, but booting > _straight_ off the memory stick on a randomly chosen machine > would be a _cool thing_; walk up to machine, jam in memory > stick and boot plan 9 :) ya. very cool. we're doing similar with the CF stuff. Hey, I found out what happens when you mess up the CMOS NVRAM with bad keys etc. You have to zero CMOS, and then to make it a CPU again you have to have good keys. No other option. That's good. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 28 23:42:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 28 23:42:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9621 invoked by uid 1020); 28 May 2003 23:42:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9617 invoked from network); 28 May 2003 23:42:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 May 2003 23:42:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1A87819B8C; Wed, 28 May 2003 10:42:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from pandora.afflictions.org (asylum.afflictions.org [64.7.134.90]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4BC6319B83 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 10:41:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by pandora.afflictions.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id AB5FF5A59F; Wed, 28 May 2003 10:41:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Damian Gerow To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans in Canada? Message-ID: <20030528144157.GF49578@afflictions.org> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030527103103.GC48672@afflictions.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.8-RC on a i386 X-GPG-Fingerprint: B3D7 D901 A53A 1A99 BFD6 E6DF 9F3B 742B C288 9CC9 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 10:41:57 -0400 Thus spake Henry Baragar (henry.baragar@instantiated.ca) [27/05/03 08:45]: > There is at least one lurker (me) who bought and played with version 1, but > has not done much with it since other than attend the BOFs when I go to > Usenix. Venti looks very interesting and I am considering doing something > with that. > > BTW, I live in Toronto. Well, I am what you might call a plan9 newbie. I know approximately ... nothing about the operating system, but have a pretty keen interest in learning. I've been watching the Hangar 18 project, and have started helping out -- just wondering if there's enough people around the Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge-Guelph area to get some sort of physical meeting going. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed May 28 23:44:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed May 28 23:44:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9640 invoked by uid 1020); 28 May 2003 23:44:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9636 invoked from network); 28 May 2003 23:44:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 May 2003 23:44:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3439419B90; Wed, 28 May 2003 10:44:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from pandora.afflictions.org (asylum.afflictions.org [64.7.134.90]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DBB5519A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 10:43:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by pandora.afflictions.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 2387D5A5A6; Wed, 28 May 2003 10:43:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Damian Gerow To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans in Canada? Message-ID: <20030528144357.GG49578@afflictions.org> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200305271451.KAA20499@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200305271451.KAA20499@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.8-RC on a i386 X-GPG-Fingerprint: B3D7 D901 A53A 1A99 BFD6 E6DF 9F3B 742B C288 9CC9 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 10:43:58 -0400 Thus spake Richard C Bilson (rcbilson@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca) [27/05/03 10:51]: > > From 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Tue May 27 06:32:34 2003 > > > > Out of curiousity, are there any 9fans here who live in South Western > > Ontario, Canada? > > Sure. I'm at the University of Waterloo. Not doing anything 9ish as > part of my job, unfortunately. I have noticed my colleagues opening up > to the idea of Wily, though. And lemme guess, you're a Math/CS major/professor? ;) I'll hold off on the 'do-you-know' conversation until later. Any interest in working with Plan9 on your own, outside of your job? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 00:29:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 00:29:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10463 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 00:29:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10459 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 00:29:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 00:29:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 206B919A6D; Wed, 28 May 2003 11:29:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cleese.nas.com (cleese.nas.com [198.182.207.3]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 172DD19A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 11:28:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (cleese.nas.com [198.182.207.3]) by cleese.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACB3436428 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 08:28:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Jack Johnson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] the backporting continues - /. stories maybe of interest In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 08:28:47 -0700 (PDT) On Wed, 28 May 2003, Geoff Collyer wrote: > What's more amusing is connecting a virtual line printer (132 columns > wide) to a virtual card reader (80 columns wide). As I recall, you > get a combination of a virtual card jam and virtual printer jam. I > forget what it takes to fix it; perhaps destruction of all relevant > virtual machines, or at least virtual devices? That's virtually funny.... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 00:36:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 00:36:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10549 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 00:36:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10545 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 00:36:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 00:36:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 660C819A72; Wed, 28 May 2003 11:36:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from 2mails1986.com (unknown [217.14.83.66]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9001819A33 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 11:35:21 -0400 (EDT) From: "REV.J.WILLIAMS." To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6900 DM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <20030528153521.9001819A33@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] TREAT AS URGENT Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: revwilliams_nnpc@officelimited.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 16:37:28 -0400 Rev=2EJ=2EWillimas=2E His Royal Highness Palace=2E 45 Marina St=2E=2C V=2FI=2CLagos-Nigeria=2E =3AEMAIL=3A nnpc=40privatebusinesslimited=2Ecom Dear=2E REQUEST FOR AN URGENT BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP I am Chief Accountant with the National Oil Nigeria PLC =28N=2FOil=29 and member of 5 MAN Contract Executive Review Panel =28comprising 2 Snr=2EStaff of CBN and 3 Snr=2CStaff Of =28N=2FOil=29 set up by present Civilian Regime of President Obasanjo=2E So far we have come across a surplus of the sum of US$28=2E8M=2E=28Twenty-eight=2Eeigth Million Dollars=29which was as a result of deliberate over-invoicing of certain contracts awarded by Contract Award Committee of the cooperation=2E The last installments due has been paid to the various Contractors=2C while the said surplus still floats in our Apex Bank waiting Off-shore remittance which we want to carry out right now=2E As civil servants we not allowed operate foreign account=2C therefore seek your assistance in providing enabling Bank Account where the Fund would be lodged=2E 25% of the total Sum is for you 5% for expenses during transaction=2C and 70% for my colleagues and me=2E A friend who is a Staff of World Trading Center =28WTC=29 here in Lagos made your contact available=2E Please notify me of your acceptance to carry out this transaction through the above E-mail address =2E I decided to contact you base on the fact that I have no foreign partner to assist me in executing the transaction=2E If you accept to carry out this business with me=2C please note that my colleague and me will be in your Country to receive the fund together with you=2Cthe moment we secure all the necessary approvals=2E You should also note that the transaction would only take =2814=29 fourteen working days=2E Best Regards=2C Rev=2EJ=2EWillimas=2E From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 02:08:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 02:08:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11967 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 02:08:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11963 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 02:08:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 02:08:36 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1854419A6F; Wed, 28 May 2003 13:08:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 97AE219A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 13:07:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <702a7aecafd56ff57bb2e29e24329e66@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] anyone worked on 9pm In-Reply-To: <17b96adfbd42df33ded4d0165f759d6b@snellwilcox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 13:07:45 -0400 A few of us have worked on 9pm. The basic problem is that we don't really know what form it should take. I have enough of a build environment that I can compile Venti without any changes, but I don't really like it. The resulting programs seem too insulated from the "host" OS as far as I'm concerned. Separately, I've been trying to package up the Plan 9 libraries in a more host-friendly format. The libraries I've posted before -- libutf, libfmt, libbio, libregexp9 -- are all part of this effort, and I've got libthread running on FreeBSD and Linux. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 02:10:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 02:10:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11998 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 02:10:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11994 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 02:10:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 02:10:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2505A19A77; Wed, 28 May 2003 13:10:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from thefrayedknot.armory.com (thefrayedknot.armory.com [192.122.209.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 72865199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 13:09:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 28602 invoked by uid 1000); 28 May 2003 17:10:00 -0000 From: Andrew To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick Message-ID: <20030528171000.GB28522@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <004901c32506$6e4430a0$e3944251@insultant.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 10:10:00 -0700 On Wed, 28 May 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > i just put the whole [non tex] dist on it and have it booted [from disk] > on my 600 series VAIO. needs a big of tinkering, but booting > _straight_ off the memory stick on a randomly chosen machine > would be a _cool thing_; walk up to machine, jam in memory > stick and boot plan 9 :) I do something similiar with bootable floppy disks, just stick one in and assuming its on the network and has supported hardware off it goes. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 02:26:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 02:26:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12206 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 02:26:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12202 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 02:26:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 02:26:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DBDDB19B32; Wed, 28 May 2003 13:26:18 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ophiopogon.tommyk.com (unknown [204.60.70.245]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5DC0A19A86 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 13:25:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tommyk.com (bofh.tommyk.com [204.60.70.253]) by ophiopogon.tommyk.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4SHPGCc023367 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 13:25:17 -0400 Message-ID: <3ED4F0F4.8030501@tommyk.com> From: Jason Gurtz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4b) Gecko/20030515 Thunderbird/0.1a X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick References: <004901c32506$6e4430a0$e3944251@insultant.net> <20030528171000.GB28522@thefrayedknot.armory.com> In-Reply-To: <20030528171000.GB28522@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.33 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: jason@tommyk.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 13:25:08 -0400 Andrew wrote: > I do something similiar with bootable floppy disks, just stick one in > and assuming its on the network and has supported hardware off it goes. This reminds me that I've seen floppy disk adapters that hold a CF/SD/MM/Mem stick cards. Might be usefull for machines that have no card reader attached or helping that legendary floppy reliablity that I've come to love so much. Cheers, ~Jason -- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 02:33:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 02:33:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12260 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 02:33:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12256 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 02:33:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 02:33:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E3D4F19B56; Wed, 28 May 2003 13:33:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C97AB19A86 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 13:32:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h4SHVirG001730 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 11:31:44 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h4SHVi5T001726 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 11:31:44 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] PXE boot? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 11:31:44 -0600 (MDT) Hi, Has anyone ever booted plan9 via PXE successfully? I have a diskless box here that I'm trying to feed a plan9 (9load) kernel to, but appear to am missing something -- it just gives me the blinkenkursor after it loads up 9load... Any suggestions are welcome. Andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 02:37:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 02:37:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12317 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 02:37:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12313 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 02:37:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 02:37:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D3A519B64; Wed, 28 May 2003 13:37:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AB6D419B42 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 13:36:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] PXE boot? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-txwbbfborfadugdsiwvjnlcboj" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 13:36:17 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-txwbbfborfadugdsiwvjnlcboj Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Where do you get a plan9.ini from during the PXE boot? I was just wondering how I would do it when your mail arrived. --upas-txwbbfborfadugdsiwvjnlcboj Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed May 28 13:33:26 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Wed May 28 13:33:23 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 87C5719A8C; Wed, 28 May 2003 13:33:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C97AB19A86 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 13:32:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h4SHVirG001730 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 11:31:44 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h4SHVi5T001726 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 11:31:44 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] PXE boot? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 11:31:44 -0600 (MDT) Hi, Has anyone ever booted plan9 via PXE successfully? I have a diskless box here that I'm trying to feed a plan9 (9load) kernel to, but appear to am missing something -- it just gives me the blinkenkursor after it loads up 9load... Any suggestions are welcome. Andrey --upas-txwbbfborfadugdsiwvjnlcboj-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 02:40:15 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 02:40:15 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12354 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 02:40:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12350 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 02:40:14 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 02:40:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C70EF19B8A; Wed, 28 May 2003 13:40:04 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9E1CA19B7D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 13:39:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mero.morphisms.net (mero.morphisms.net [66.93.84.246]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 530C424FE8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 13:39:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mero.morphisms.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 43DA325C; Wed, 28 May 2003 13:39:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 13:39:48 -0400 From: "William K. Josephson" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] anyone worked on 9pm Message-ID: <20030528173948.GB73699@mero.morphisms.net> References: <17b96adfbd42df33ded4d0165f759d6b@snellwilcox.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <17b96adfbd42df33ded4d0165f759d6b@snellwilcox.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-No-archive: yes Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: On Wed, May 28, 2003 at 02:53:50PM +0100, steve.simon@snellwilcox.com wrote: > Anyone done any work on 9pm to update it to the 4th edition? Yes and no. Both Russ and I have versions of it that are fairly complete (but unfortunately a bit different -- I'd like to squash those differences, but haven't got the time yet). Part of the problem seems to be whether or not you just want to port Plan 9 software or want something for writing new, portable software. Neither of us seem to be very happy with what we've got, but unless you need a fairly complete environment, I'd suggest using Russ's more unix-friendly ports of the utf, print, and threading code. I don't think anyone has done much with graphics... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 03:34:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 03:34:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12979 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 03:34:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12975 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 03:34:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 03:34:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DCA4219A86; Wed, 28 May 2003 14:34:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A898A19A90 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 14:33:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h4SIWlrG001778 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 12:32:47 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h4SIWkxW001774 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 12:32:47 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] PXE boot? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 12:32:46 -0600 (MDT) On Wed, 28 May 2003, David Presotto wrote: > Where do you get a plan9.ini from during the PXE boot? I was just > wondering how I would do it when your mail arrived. I don't... I still don't have it clear in my mind how I would get a machine to boot as a diskless cpu server just through PXE. I was just trying to see if the PXE would even jump to 9load successfully. I need to experiment a bit more with this -- currently I'm staring at a blank screen with just the DHCP information on (if I attempt to load a 9pcauth kernel directly the machine reboots, which is just what I expected). I need to read more about PXE to find out whether it expects 9load to be linked at a specific address or not. I also see that it attempts to pass options to tftpd, which the red-hat daemon does not expect (dhcp server is linux, just can't a dedicated plan9 machine)... Too bad there are no postcards around here :(... andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 03:59:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 03:59:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13344 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 03:59:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13340 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 03:59:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 03:59:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 30F6E19B72; Wed, 28 May 2003 14:59:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 91D3F19A78 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 14:58:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4SIweqt029714 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 12:58:40 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4SIweIG028936 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 12:58:40 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] PXE boot? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 12:58:40 -0600 (MDT) I thought that PXE could only handle a 32-KB boot image. I have heard this quite a few times. I read the standard years ago but was sufficiently impressed that the standard was filed in the manner it deserved, so I no longer have access to it. Anyway, if my 32KB guess is true, you may have to have PXE load etherboot, and then have etherboot load 9load in the way that you did last summer at LANL. See this: http://news.gw.com/freebsd.cluster/275 for a discussion of some PXE limitations. I just did some quick looking round and just about everything that uses PXE uses it to boot a little stub thing (etherboot, etc.) that in turn boots the real thing. You may want to get etherboot, build it with the PXE options, and see how far you get. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 05:02:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 05:02:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14197 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 05:02:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14193 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 05:02:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 05:02:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EEF0C19A78; Wed, 28 May 2003 16:02:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A75F9199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 16:01:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <560686-4969>; Wed, 28 May 2003 16:00:35 -0400 Message-ID: <001301c32553$ac4dd0c0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] the backporting continues - /. stories maybe of interest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 21:59:35 +0200 i got ascii to baudot, but i may have the bits reversed: http://www.insultant.net/repo/a2b.html http://www.insultant.net/repo/b2a.html iirc, i think rob said i got 'em 'round the wrong way, at some point. small amount of sam'll fix that :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 05:03:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 05:03:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14205 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 05:03:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14201 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 05:03:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 05:03:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8D46919B82; Wed, 28 May 2003 16:03:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E855119A78 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 16:02:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <213442-4505>; Wed, 28 May 2003 16:01:46 -0400 Message-ID: <001901c32553$d6e5bf00$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 22:00:49 +0200 > ya. very cool. we're doing similar with the CF stuff. gimme a few secs ad i'll see what i can come up with :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 05:04:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 05:04:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14233 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 05:04:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14229 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 05:04:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 05:04:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 48C9C19B8D; Wed, 28 May 2003 16:04:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from magnum.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0DE4E19A2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 16:03:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from robin.cooper.edu by magnum.cooper.edu with SMTP id AA28146 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>); Wed, 28 May 2003 16:08:23 -0400 Received: from localhost by robin.cooper.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA08275; Wed, 28 May 2003 16:03:52 -0400 From: Joel Salomon To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: page: can't find $wsys In-Reply-To: <3ED37650.9060206@charter.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 16:03:51 -0400 (EDT) On Wed, 28 May 2003, Sean Dolan wrote: > Ok, I just needed to have a bit of patience. After "page: can't find > $wsys" was displayed, I waited... 10 minutes later the task completed > and the installation moved to the boot option task. (A simple > incrementing # during the copy would have been nice) 3e install gave a list of files as they were copied to the hard drive. This vanished in 4e install, anyone know why? (This is the graphical install I'm refering to, but the file list would have reasured Sean as well as the #s would) --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 05:06:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 05:06:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14341 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 05:06:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14337 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 05:06:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 05:06:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E4988199D5; Wed, 28 May 2003 16:06:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3379D199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 16:05:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557345-4968>; Wed, 28 May 2003 16:04:48 -0400 Message-ID: <003901c32554$43423980$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <004901c32506$6e4430a0$e3944251@insultant.net> <20030528171000.GB28522@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 22:03:50 +0200 > I do something similiar with bootable floppy disks, just stick one in > and assuming its on the network and has supported hardware off it goes. did that with 2nd ed, but i'm not gonna wait that long -- sheesh ... gawd, we'd be better off keying the in the boot loader with the 11/70's front panel ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 05:20:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 05:20:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14582 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 05:20:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14578 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 05:20:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 05:20:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7DE1D19A95; Wed, 28 May 2003 16:20:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 137D019A81 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 16:19:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4SKJrfD024177 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 14:19:53 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4SKJrIG032727 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 14:19:53 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick In-Reply-To: <003901c32554$43423980$e3944251@insultant.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 14:19:53 -0600 (MDT) On Wed, 28 May 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > gawd, we'd be better off keying the in the boot loader with the 11/70's > front panel ... I've got an 11/50 panel here in the office if you can tell me the sequence. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 05:24:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 05:24:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14652 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 05:24:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14648 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 05:24:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 05:24:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D720C19B95; Wed, 28 May 2003 16:24:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 678FD19B94 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 16:23:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <212703-4496>; Wed, 28 May 2003 16:22:44 -0400 Message-ID: <008901c32556$c4cb9f80$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 22:21:48 +0200 i can remember that on the console of an 11/34 it was: 173000g From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 05:29:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 05:29:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14720 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 05:29:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14716 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 05:29:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 05:29:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8595619B99; Wed, 28 May 2003 16:29:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from router. (pD9EC62F0.dip.t-dialin.net [217.236.98.240]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B789A19B96 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 16:28:20 -0400 (EDT) x-esmtp: 0 0 1 Message-ID: <2788939-220035328202519100@router> From: "Momo1" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [9fans] Do you still have dreams ? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: "Momo1" List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 22:25:19 +0200 Hi, today I would like to inform you about a new home page on which I make som= e=20 very important business information available for you=2E On this page I of= fer=20 you a free view on a lot of attractive flash tours and presentations and a= =20 large number of special prints on the subject network marketing=2E Please = take=20 your time to have a look at my new home page and get your own impression o= n=20 the professional appearance and the carefully chosen contents=2E=20 Please click here to get on my new "Your-Success=2Einfo System" home page:= http://www=2Ehot4=2Eyour-success=2Einfo Sincerely, Your Success-Team --------------------------------------------------------------------- You are receiving this message because: A) You submitted=20 a classified ad or link at one of my pages or you posted your=20 e-mail address in a public domain=2E B) You sent email to one=20 of my email adresses in the past or C) We are on the same=20 optin list or D) You recently filled out your contact info as Home=20 Biz Oppertunity Seeker who is intereseted in Home Business=2E=20 If you were not the intended recipient of this message,=20 Please accept my apologies and delete=2E You can make remove,=20 anyway, by reply on this message with word "remove" in subject line=2E From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 06:14:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 06:14:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15293 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 06:14:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15289 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 06:14:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 06:14:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D043119B51; Wed, 28 May 2003 17:14:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from thefrayedknot.armory.com (thefrayedknot.armory.com [192.122.209.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0223D19A81 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 17:13:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 15356 invoked by uid 1000); 28 May 2003 21:13:19 -0000 From: Andrew To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick Message-ID: <20030528211319.GA15322@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <004901c32506$6e4430a0$e3944251@insultant.net> <20030528171000.GB28522@thefrayedknot.armory.com> <003901c32554$43423980$e3944251@insultant.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <003901c32554$43423980$e3944251@insultant.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 14:13:19 -0700 On Wed, May 28, 2003 at 10:03:50PM +0200, boyd, rounin wrote: > > I do something similiar with bootable floppy disks, just stick one in > > and assuming its on the network and has supported hardware off it goes. > > did that with 2nd ed, but i'm not gonna wait that long -- sheesh ... > > gawd, we'd be better off keying the in the boot loader with the 11/70's > front panel ... > > id like to see you key in the boot loader in under 30 seconds. with compressed kernels it really isnt that bad, and when you lack hard drives to boot from you dont have much coice. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 06:20:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 06:20:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15355 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 06:20:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15351 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 06:20:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 06:20:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C1ED519B9A; Wed, 28 May 2003 17:20:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0CD9A1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 17:19:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557098-4962>; Wed, 28 May 2003 17:18:53 -0400 Message-ID: <00dd01c3255e$9c123ba0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <004901c32506$6e4430a0$e3944251@insultant.net> <20030528171000.GB28522@thefrayedknot.armory.com> <003901c32554$43423980$e3944251@insultant.net> <20030528211319.GA15322@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 23:17:55 +0200 > with compressed kernels it really isnt that bad if you need to compress the kernel, your kernel is _way_ too big. kernel = small, no? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 06:27:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 06:27:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15422 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 06:27:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15418 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 06:27:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 06:27:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D97D21998A; Wed, 28 May 2003 17:27:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from thefrayedknot.armory.com (thefrayedknot.armory.com [192.122.209.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2EB9D19B89 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 17:26:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 15501 invoked by uid 1000); 28 May 2003 21:26:31 -0000 From: Andrew To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick Message-ID: <20030528212631.GA15467@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <004901c32506$6e4430a0$e3944251@insultant.net> <20030528171000.GB28522@thefrayedknot.armory.com> <003901c32554$43423980$e3944251@insultant.net> <20030528211319.GA15322@thefrayedknot.armory.com> <00dd01c3255e$9c123ba0$e3944251@insultant.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <00dd01c3255e$9c123ba0$e3944251@insultant.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 14:26:31 -0700 i keep them small, as small as I can manage, but they load off a floppy faster when they are compressed since I can decompress faster than i can transfer from a floppy. The only kernel that I actually need to compress is the klunky fossil kernel which needs to have rc and all sorts of other things built in. Soon though I will make it boot into kfs instead of something (now that I have many small hard drives) and that process will be unnecesary. On Wed, May 28, 2003 at 11:17:55PM +0200, boyd, rounin wrote: > > with compressed kernels it really isnt that bad > > if you need to compress the kernel, your kernel is _way_ too big. > > kernel = small, no? > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 06:33:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 06:33:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15513 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 06:33:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15509 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 06:33:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 06:33:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CB1F819A81; Wed, 28 May 2003 17:33:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 49DB619B9E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 17:32:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557683-4965>; Wed, 28 May 2003 17:32:40 -0400 Message-ID: <00ea01c32560$89916080$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <004901c32506$6e4430a0$e3944251@insultant.net> <20030528171000.GB28522@thefrayedknot.armory.com> <003901c32554$43423980$e3944251@insultant.net> <20030528211319.GA15322@thefrayedknot.armory.com> <00dd01c3255e$9c123ba0$e3944251@insultant.net> <20030528212631.GA15467@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 23:31:43 +0200 i love floppies, let's all revert to the 8" ones (iirc) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 06:42:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 06:42:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15782 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 06:42:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15778 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 06:42:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 06:42:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E87419B92; Wed, 28 May 2003 17:42:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from edsac.borf.com (borf.com [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2E7FA19B8E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 17:41:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4444050184024a82b15475be3767b52c@coraid.com> From: bwc@coraid.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick In-Reply-To: <00ea01c32560$89916080$e3944251@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-hkwdtgtobpozfudzdvikmrbbgq" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 17:43:27 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-hkwdtgtobpozfudzdvikmrbbgq Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paper tape was more fun--all that chad, flinging old code! What about a USB paper tape reader? Brantley --upas-hkwdtgtobpozfudzdvikmrbbgq Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by edsac; Wed May 28 17:36:34 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9B67D19B9F; Wed, 28 May 2003 17:33:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 49DB619B9E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 17:32:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557683-4965>; Wed, 28 May 2003 17:32:40 -0400 Message-ID: <00ea01c32560$89916080$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <004901c32506$6e4430a0$e3944251@insultant.net> <20030528171000.GB28522@thefrayedknot.armory.com> <003901c32554$43423980$e3944251@insultant.net> <20030528211319.GA15322@thefrayedknot.armory.com> <00dd01c3255e$9c123ba0$e3944251@insultant.net> <20030528212631.GA15467@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 23:31:43 +0200 i love floppies, let's all revert to the 8" ones (iirc) --upas-hkwdtgtobpozfudzdvikmrbbgq-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 07:33:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 07:33:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16397 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 07:33:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16393 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 07:33:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 07:33:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C687B19A17; Wed, 28 May 2003 18:33:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (mail.math.Princeton.EDU [128.112.18.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 07AA819A0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 18:32:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.Princeton.EDU (math.Princeton.EDU [128.112.18.16]) by Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4SMWtE25248 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 18:32:55 -0400 Received: from math.princeton.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by math.Princeton.EDU (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4SMWtF11872 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 18:32:55 -0400 Message-Id: <200305282232.h4SMWtF11872@math.Princeton.EDU> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] the backporting continues - /. stories maybe of interest From: John Stalker Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 18:32:55 -0400 ron minnich : >speaking of which, does anybody know if there is a program out there to >take lines of text and display them as punch cards? I don't know why I >want this, but I do. >Manila is the preferred color. >ron How about this? $bcd Hello world! ________________________________________________ /HELLO WORLD! | |]] ] | | ]]] ]]] | | ] ] | |111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111| |222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222| |33]]33333]33333333333333333333333333333333333333| |4444444444]4444444444444444444444444444444444444| |5]5555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555| |6666]6]]6666666666666666666666666666666666666666| |77777777777]777777777777777777777777777777777777| |]8888888888]888888888888888888888888888888888888| |99999999]999999999999999999999999999999999999999| |________________________________________________| $ man bcd BCD(6) FreeBSD Games Manual BCD(6) NAME bcd, ppt - reformat input as punch cards or paper tape SYNOPSIS bcd [string ...] ppt [string ...] DESCRIPTION The commands bcd and ppt read the given input and reformat it in the form of punched cards or paper tape. Acceptable input are command line argu- ments or the standard input. -- John Stalker Department of Mathematics Princeton University (609)258-6469 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 07:39:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 07:39:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16590 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 07:39:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16585 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 07:39:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 07:39:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ABAFC19A32; Wed, 28 May 2003 18:39:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1FD9819A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 18:38:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4SMcfqt025762 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 16:38:41 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4SMcfIG006618 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 16:38:41 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: <200305282232.h4SMWtF11872@math.Princeton.EDU> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] bcd Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 16:38:41 -0600 (MDT) well with seeing how easy plan9 graphics is compared to X11, I might try a port of bcd to plan9 graphics. After all, if the card isn't salmon, it's just not the same. thanks for the links :-) ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 08:25:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 08:25:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17341 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 08:25:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17337 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 08:25:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 08:25:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D6BCA19A40; Wed, 28 May 2003 19:25:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6329919A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 19:24:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <78e754411d4072b6a40222e98493e92a@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 16:24:23 -0700 Okay, for your 11/50 from V6's bproc(8): RK (drive 0): 012700 mov $rkda,r0 177412 005040 clr -(r0) / rkda cleared by start 010040 mov r0,-(r0) 012740 mov $5,-(r0) 000005 105710 1: tstb (r0) 002376 bge 1b 005007 clr pc RP (drive 0) 012700 mov $rpmr,r0 176726 005040 clr -(r0) 005040 clr -(r0) 005040 clr -(r0) 010040 mov r0,-(r0) 012740 mov $5,-(r0) 000005 105710 1: tstb (r0) 002376 bge 1b 005007 clr pc RKs were the 2.5MB cartridge disks and RPs were removable disk packs. The TM-11 magtape bootstrap was only 6 words and I think I had it memorised at one time: Magtape from load point: 012700 mov $mtcma,r0 172526 010040 mov r0,-(r0) / usr mt addr for wc 012740 mov $60003,-(r0) / read 9-track 060003 000777 br . / loop; now halt and start at 0 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 08:40:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 08:40:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17609 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 08:40:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17605 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 08:40:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 08:40:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3508919A7D; Wed, 28 May 2003 19:40:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 40E0419995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 19:39:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <212593-4505>; Wed, 28 May 2003 19:39:12 -0400 Message-ID: <01a101c32572$36bc10a0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <78e754411d4072b6a40222e98493e92a@collyer.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 01:38:14 +0200 > RKs were the 2.5MB cartridge disks and RPs were removable disk packs. well (as you know) the RK05 was a double sided [2x2.5Mb] removable cartridge. i've never seen an 11/50. don't ever drop a removal pack [RM0[35]] jjm & i once fixed a broken 32V rm03 root file system with a screwdriver, tape, ls-120 (?), stand alone fsdb, adb and a 9 track tape :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 09:13:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 09:13:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18543 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 09:13:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18539 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 09:13:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 09:13:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D962519A8D; Wed, 28 May 2003 20:13:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F4F319995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 20:12:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <01a101c32572$36bc10a0$e3944251@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 17:12:14 -0700 We're getting into PDP-11 trivia here. The RK05s I used held exactly 4872 512-byte sectors. (Remember that the V6 root file system was 4000 blocks, with 872 left over for swap.) If memory serves, the 11/50 was an 11/45 with a small amount of (for its time) very fast memory at the bottom of the physical address space. It was sold as a RSTS machine and the fast memory was just big enough to hold the RSTS BASIC interpeter. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 09:16:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 09:16:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18656 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 09:16:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18652 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 09:16:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 09:16:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1EC6619995; Wed, 28 May 2003 20:16:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D08CD19A92 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 20:15:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557635-4964>; Wed, 28 May 2003 20:15:39 -0400 Message-ID: <01f001c32577$4e43ada0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <78e754411d4072b6a40222e98493e92a@collyer.net> <01a101c32572$36bc10a0$e3944251@insultant.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 02:14:43 +0200 > ... ls-120 (?) nah, musta be an LA-120; the standard 11/780 console. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 09:22:10 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 09:22:10 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18849 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 09:22:09 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18845 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 09:22:09 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 09:22:09 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C1E6919A92; Wed, 28 May 2003 20:21:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 61AF819A90 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 20:20:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557545-4966>; Wed, 28 May 2003 20:19:51 -0400 Message-ID: <021001c32577$e4703280$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 02:18:54 +0200 > ... an 11/45 wasn't that sep i&d? there was something special about the 45 and then there was those winchester memory/swap drives. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 09:22:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 09:22:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18888 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 09:22:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18884 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 09:22:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 09:22:37 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B50FE19B11; Wed, 28 May 2003 20:22:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 88274199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 20:21:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557251-4972>; Wed, 28 May 2003 20:21:02 -0400 Message-ID: <021801c32578$0dc01060$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 02:20:04 +0200 > It was sold as a RSTS machine ... uggh, with with an LA-25 ... 'special'. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 09:43:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 09:43:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19830 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 09:43:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19826 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 09:43:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 09:43:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9C4F9199BE; Wed, 28 May 2003 20:43:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 637CE19A89 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 20:42:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sdn-ap-010castocp0026.dialsprint.net ([63.187.96.26] helo=acm.org) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19LBUi-00007J-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 28 May 2003 17:42:12 -0700 Message-ID: <3ED557A4.5080208@acm.org> From: Donald Brownlee User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick References: <021801c32578$0dc01060$e3944251@insultant.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 17:43:16 -0700 A kind employer once sent me to some DEC training in Santa Clara, Augustine Dr., black, glass building, now, no doubt, vacant or torn down. Anyway, we must have spent at least a day learning to boot the beast with the switches, but the machine at work had an option -- something like, "Console ROM ODT" -- where you could just type @173???g or something similar. Maybe "@" was ODTs prompt. The Supnick simulator may require something similar. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 10:29:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 10:29:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21681 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 10:29:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21677 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 10:29:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 10:29:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB31A19A08; Wed, 28 May 2003 21:29:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 94C1219A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 21:28:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: page: can't find $wsys In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 21:28:14 -0400 > 3e install gave a list of files as they were copied to the hard drive. > This vanished in 4e install, anyone know why? (This is the graphical > install I'm refering to, but the file list would have reasured Sean as > well as the #s would) Probably because I changed the software, hence the scripts, and forgot to set the flag that makes that happen. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 14:34:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 14:34:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32452 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 14:34:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32448 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 14:34:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 14:34:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D3D1F19A8E; Thu, 29 May 2003 01:34:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp2.surewest.net (eth1.smtp2.surewest.net [66.60.129.26]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id CB1A1199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 May 2003 01:33:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 13043 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 05:33:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO salmon) (66.60.146.51) by smtp2.surewest.net with SMTP; 29 May 2003 05:33:45 -0000 From: "Gene Garbutt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: RE: [9fans] anyone worked on 9pm Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <702a7aecafd56ff57bb2e29e24329e66@plan9.bell-labs.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-TST: SMTP2 SNWK Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 22:33:44 -0700 Are your libraries generally available? >-----Original Message----- >From: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu [mailto:9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu]On Behalf >Of Russ Cox >Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 10:08 AM >To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >Subject: Re: [9fans] anyone worked on 9pm > > >A few of us have worked on 9pm. The basic problem >is that we don't really know what form it should take. >I have enough of a build environment that I can compile >Venti without any changes, but I don't really like it. >The resulting programs seem too insulated from the >"host" OS as far as I'm concerned. > >Separately, I've been trying to package up the Plan 9 >libraries in a more host-friendly format. The libraries >I've posted before -- libutf, libfmt, libbio, libregexp9 -- >are all part of this effort, and I've got libthread running >on FreeBSD and Linux. > >Russ > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 17:59:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 17:59:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8499 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 17:59:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8495 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 17:59:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 17:59:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E06919A8F; Thu, 29 May 2003 04:59:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D842619A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 May 2003 04:58:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19LJ5p-0002KL-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 29 May 2003 09:49:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3ED58601.8050904@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , <021001c32577$e4703280$e3944251@insultant.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 08:45:41 GMT boyd, rounin wrote: >>... an 11/45 > wasn't that sep i&d? there was something special about the 45 > and then there was those winchester memory/swap drives. The PDP-11/45 (and /50, which had MOS memory instead of core) was the first PDP-11 family member sporting separate I & D address spaces. It had a FastBus interconnect, but that was transparent to system software. Also I think the 11/45 was the first supporting an FP11 (fast floating-point coprocessor) option. 6th Ed. Unix came in two flavors, 11/40 and 11/45. The RK05 came in a couple of flavors, fixed vs. removable. Many of the early Unix distributions were on RK05 cartridge (removable) disks (list price of a blank RK05 disk was $105); most if not all of the others were on 9-track 1/2" magtape. There are still many PDP-11s in operation, as well as usable emulations in software on the PC and other platforms. It's kind of nice to be able to open a window and run a PDP-11 Unix in it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 18:00:02 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 18:00:02 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8527 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 18:00:01 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8523 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 18:00:01 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 18:00:01 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A3EBE19A97; Thu, 29 May 2003 04:59:28 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D63C019A6A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 May 2003 04:58:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19LJ5p-0002Kd-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 29 May 2003 09:49:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3ED58670.3030909@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <00ea01c32560$89916080$e3944251@insultant.net>, <4444050184024a82b15475be3767b52c@coraid.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 08:46:13 GMT bwc@coraid.com wrote: > What about a USB paper tape reader? I have one on a serial port. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 18:00:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 18:00:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8548 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 18:00:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8544 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 18:00:49 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 18:00:49 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A3C2519AA1; Thu, 29 May 2003 04:59:41 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D042219A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 May 2003 04:58:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19LJ5p-0002KR-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 29 May 2003 09:49:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3ED58656.6070307@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <004901c32506$6e4430a0$e3944251@insultant.net>, <00ea01c32560$89916080$e3944251@insultant.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 08:45:51 GMT boyd, rounin wrote: > i love floppies, let's all revert to the 8" ones (iirc) About 128KB, would sure help keep kernels small! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 18:01:53 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 18:01:53 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8593 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 18:01:53 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8588 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 18:01:52 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 18:01:52 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 54A0E19AA9; Thu, 29 May 2003 04:59:54 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 282F7199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 May 2003 04:58:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19LJ5p-0002KF-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 29 May 2003 09:49:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Sean Dolan Message-ID: <3ED4B433.6010807@charter.net> Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <3ED37650.9060206@charter.net>, Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: page: can't find $wsys Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 08:45:27 GMT Russ Cox wrote: >>and the installation moved to the boot option task. (A simple >>incrementing # during the copy would have been nice) I chose to create a > > > If you were running vga, you would have had this. > > >>panic: exception/interrupt 14 >>14? why... thats my IDE controller interrupt. The partition I had the > > > No it's not. It's a page fault. It's software interrupt (exception) 14. > > Try adding > > *nousbprobe=1 > *noetherprobe=1 > > to plan9.ini on the boot floppy. If that doesn't help, try copying the > 9load file from your install floppy to the boot floppy. > > Russ > No dice, Russ. Same panic message. I'm going to give up for now. I'll try again when I feel like putting more time into it. I built this box less than a year ago, so all the components are fairly fresh. Plan 9 will probably install on one of my older boxen without so much as a hiccup. I'll probably try the install on one of those. But thank you for taking the time to lend a newb some advice :) -- Sean Dolan From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 18:03:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 18:03:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8658 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 18:03:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8654 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 18:03:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 18:03:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9766419AAB; Thu, 29 May 2003 05:03:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4826819AAA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 May 2003 05:02:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19LJ5p-0002KX-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 29 May 2003 09:49:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3ED58787.90508@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , <3ED557A4.5080208@acm.org> Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 08:46:02 GMT Donald Brownlee wrote: > ... an option -- something like, "Console > ROM ODT" -- where you could just type > @173???g or something similar. Maybe "@" > was ODTs prompt. The Supnick simulator may > require something similar. Console ODT was near universal in the LSI-11 (Qbus) family. Unibus PDP-11s more usually had device-specific boot ROMs on a separate board. Supnick's SIMH has a console interface common across all the computer simulations (HP 2100, H516, PDP-15, Nova, etc.); it allows one to not only peek and poke RAM but also to attach host files as specified device (image)s, etc. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 18:08:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 18:08:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8800 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 18:08:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8796 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 18:08:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 18:08:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7F7AD19AB2; Thu, 29 May 2003 05:08:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C1E6119A94 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 May 2003 05:07:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557572-604>; Thu, 29 May 2003 05:06:47 -0400 Message-ID: <007d01c325c1$807b83c0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3ED58601.8050904@null.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 11:05:48 +0200 > Also I think the 11/45 was the first supporting an FP11 > (fast floating-point coprocessor) yeah, that sounds right. i could use google, but that would be too slow. i'm pretty sure the 11/45 i used to play with had an FP11. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 18:11:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 18:11:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8897 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 18:11:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8892 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 18:11:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 18:11:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E69B519AB5; Thu, 29 May 2003 05:11:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C350A19AAC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 May 2003 05:10:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <212588-30528>; Thu, 29 May 2003 05:09:43 -0400 Message-ID: <008301c325c1$e90c0220$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3ED58787.90508@null.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 11:08:45 +0200 > @173???g or something similar. Maybe "@" > was ODTs prompt. @ may well have been the prompt, but it was 173000g sounds plausible, 'cos you need some feedback to say that the machine is ready to talk to you. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 18:13:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 18:13:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8931 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 18:13:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8927 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 18:13:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 18:13:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3DE1619AB6; Thu, 29 May 2003 05:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 89C6319A94 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 May 2003 05:12:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 54011 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 09:12:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO proweb.co.uk) (192.168.1.100) by juice.thebigchoice.com with SMTP; 29 May 2003 09:12:18 -0000 Message-ID: <3ED5CEF1.1000908@proweb.co.uk> From: matt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick References: , <021001c32577$e4703280$e3944251@insultant.net> <3ED58601.8050904@null.net> In-Reply-To: <3ED58601.8050904@null.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 10:12:17 +0100 Douglas A. Gwyn wrote: > boyd, rounin wrote: > >>> ... an 11/45 >> >> wasn't that sep i&d? there was something special about the 45 >> and then there was those winchester memory/swap drives. > > > The PDP-11/45 I started in a Research Machines Z80 http://www.zoo.co.uk/~z0001275/rm380z.htm then I upgraded to a BBC model B (in '83 iirc) I still have it here From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 18:29:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 18:29:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9321 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 18:29:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9317 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 18:29:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 18:29:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 15BC919AB1; Thu, 29 May 2003 05:29:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from unix127.hosting-network.com (unknown [66.186.208.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E741C19A94 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 May 2003 05:28:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 73676 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 09:30:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cc77109e) (203.51.66.22) by 66.186.208.13 with SMTP; 29 May 2003 09:30:39 -0000 X-Comments: BlackMail headers - Mail to abuse@featureprice.com to report spam. X-Authenticated-Connect: 203.51.66.22 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 05:30:39(EDT) on May 29, 2003 X-HELO-From: cc77109e X-Mail-From: X-Sender-IP-Address: 203.51.66.22 Message-ID: <010e01c325c5$14dd5360$c901a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: , <021001c32577$e4703280$e3944251@insultant.net> <3ED58601.8050904@null.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick (pdps really) Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 19:30:10 +1000 What are we neglecting here? Sure I love the PDP series. But are we forgetting the warmth factor? Many a time in the golden Basser days we'd get back from the pub and I would slip my feet under the 11/40. Actually now that the temp in Sydney is threateningly close to getting not-hot I might have to power up the Microvax as a comfort device. Well it runs 10th Ed so it's fun anyway. Yeah I should have better things to do. brucee From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 19:18:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 19:18:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10534 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 19:18:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10530 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 19:18:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 19:18:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5CEE219A96; Thu, 29 May 2003 06:18:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from larch (unknown [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C06A19A6C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 May 2003 06:17:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] the backporting continues - /. stories maybe of In-Reply-To: <2355332133@snellwilcox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 11:16:55 +0100 I think I rembember edition 7 had ppt - ascii to paper tape - translation, /usr/games I think... -Steve From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 19:30:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 19:30:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10782 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 19:30:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10763 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 19:30:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 19:30:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AA7F219A1C; Thu, 29 May 2003 06:30:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from larch (unknown [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CD4E419A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 May 2003 06:29:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <97857b13ca7d6f5d4bc1ea12b7438cbe@snellwilcox.com> From: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick In-Reply-To: <2623575237@snellwilcox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-cevqoltroxcpccnmvrkiggllpm" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 11:28:55 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-cevqoltroxcpccnmvrkiggllpm Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Now you are talking, ^Fj103 - jump to rom monitor and then back into the the RML basic via the restart vector - the 380z equivilent of -Steve --upas-cevqoltroxcpccnmvrkiggllpm Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 10:12:17 +0100 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu bcc: "Steve Simon" From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sender: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Importance: normal Priority: normal Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick Message-Id: <2623575237@snellwilcox.com> X-MIME-Engine: v0.90 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Id: <2623575237-1@snellwilcox.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Douglas A. Gwyn wrote: > boyd, rounin wrote: > >>> ... an 11/45 = >> >> wasn't that sep i&d? there was something special about the 45 >> and then there was those winchester memory/swap drives. > > > The PDP-11/45 = I started in a Research Machines Z80 http://www.zoo.co.uk/~z0001275/rm380z.htm then I upgraded to a BBC model B (in '83 iirc) I still have it here --upas-cevqoltroxcpccnmvrkiggllpm-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 20:10:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 20:10:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11779 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 20:10:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11774 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 20:10:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 20:10:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 456D219A2C; Thu, 29 May 2003 07:10:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from me (unknown [213.157.183.8]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 54FDD199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 May 2003 07:09:17 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: mp3@qozi.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------APSM2340982348" Status: RO Message-Id: <20030529110917.54FDD199E8@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] Mp3 Resources Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: mp3@qozi.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 07:09:17 -0400 (EDT) This is a multipart message in MIME format --------------APSM2340982348 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------APBB482139743837-1" --------------APBB482139743837-1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, My name is Marc Janeway and I have a site about mp3 and it contains resources related to this and this is the url: "qozi.com/mp3". I think our sites are compatible and I would like very much to exchange links with your site: http://plan9.escet.urjc.es/. If you don't agree with that, just ignore this message, but if you like the idea you can fill in the form at: http://www.qozi.com/mp3/form.html and you will see your link up on our site in a day or two. Also in order for you to link to us you might use this information: URL: http://www.qozi.com/mp3/ Title: Mp3 Resources Description: mp3 related news, books and web resources or you can copy & paste this : --START HERE-- <a href="http://www.qozi.com/mp3/">Mp3 Resources</a> - mp3 related news, books and web resources.<br><br> --END HERE-- Best Regards, Marc Janeway --------------APBB482139743837-1 Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi,

My name is Marc Janeway and I have a site about mp3 and it contains resources related to this and this is the url: "qozi.com/mp3".
I think our sites are compatible and I would like very much to exchange links with your site: http://plan9.escet.urjc.es/.

If you don't agree with that, just ignore this message, but if you like the idea you can fill in the form at: http://www.qozi.com/mp3/form.html and you will see your link up on our site in a day or two.

Also in order for you to link to us you might use this information:

URL: http://www.qozi.com/mp3/
Title: Mp3 Resources
Description: mp3 related news, books and web resources

or you can copy & paste this :

--START HERE--

<a href="http://www.qozi.com/mp3/">Mp3 Resources</a> - mp3 related news, books and web resources.<br><br>

--END HERE--

Best Regards,
Marc Janeway
--------------APBB482139743837-1-- --------------APSM2340982348-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 20:19:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 20:19:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11971 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 20:19:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11967 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 20:19:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 20:19:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 31C7B19A6A; Thu, 29 May 2003 07:19:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 13E8A19A04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 May 2003 07:18:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <212668-30521>; Thu, 29 May 2003 07:18:23 -0400 Message-ID: <00eb01c325d3$e3918d80$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030529110917.54FDD199E8@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Mp3 Resources MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 13:17:27 +0200 all this spam is beginning to annoy me -- time for active measures. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 21:44:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 21:44:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13603 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 21:44:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13599 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 21:44:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 21:44:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 748BE19A6E; Thu, 29 May 2003 08:44:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from tmailb1.svr.pol.co.uk (tmailb1.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.168.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 20C8719A04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 May 2003 08:43:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from modem-2900.python.dialup.pol.co.uk ([217.134.219.84] helo=agni) by tmailb1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 4.14) id 19LMkl-0005he-P5; Thu, 29 May 2003 13:43:32 +0100 From: Martin C.Atkins To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: matt@proweb.co.uk Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick Message-Id: <20030529134622.16fcc16b.martin@mca-ltd.com> In-Reply-To: <3ED5CEF1.1000908@proweb.co.uk> References: <021001c32577$e4703280$e3944251@insultant.net> <3ED58601.8050904@null.net> <3ED5CEF1.1000908@proweb.co.uk> Organization: Mission Critical Applications Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.4claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 13:46:22 +0100 On Thu, 29 May 2003 10:12:17 +0100 matt wrote: >... > > I started in a Research Machines Z80 > > http://www.zoo.co.uk/~z0001275/rm380z.htm > > then I upgraded to a BBC model B (in '83 iirc) > I still have it here Wow! That's almost exactly my history too! Thanks for the link, it brought back many happy memories. The 380Z had the best "Software front panel" (in ROM), that I've ever seen, before or since. I've still got an RML 8" floppy which I would love to be able to read - just to copy everything off for posterity! :-) Martin -- Martin C. Atkins martin@mca-ltd.com Mission Critical Applications Ltd, U.K. http://www.mca-ltd.com{/,/martin} From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu May 29 23:48:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu May 29 23:48:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16185 invoked by uid 1020); 29 May 2003 23:48:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16181 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 23:48:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 May 2003 23:48:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 00DCA19A04; Thu, 29 May 2003 10:48:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8CFE81998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 May 2003 10:47:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 9883 invoked from network); 29 May 2003 14:47:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO proweb.co.uk) (192.168.1.100) by juice.thebigchoice.com with SMTP; 29 May 2003 14:47:27 -0000 Message-ID: <3ED61D7E.1060108@proweb.co.uk> From: matt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick References: <021001c32577$e4703280$e3944251@insultant.net> <3ED58601.8050904@null.net> <3ED5CEF1.1000908@proweb.co.uk> <20030529134622.16fcc16b.martin@mca-ltd.com> In-Reply-To: <20030529134622.16fcc16b.martin@mca-ltd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 15:47:26 +0100 > > >>then I upgraded to a BBC model B (in '83 iirc) >>I still have it here >> slightly ambiguous, it's the BBC I have, not the 380Z, >> >> > >Wow! That's almost exactly my history too! Thanks for the link, it >brought back many happy memories. The 380Z had the best >"Software front panel" (in ROM), that I've ever seen, before or since. > just basic for me, I was 10/11 y.o. We only got access to it outside of school hours but luckily I was the only one of the 1000+ pupils interested in doing so. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 30 00:19:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 30 00:19:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16574 invoked by uid 1020); 30 May 2003 00:19:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16570 invoked from network); 30 May 2003 00:19:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 May 2003 00:19:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 75CC619A8C; Thu, 29 May 2003 11:19:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 95B5F1998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 May 2003 11:18:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 29469 invoked by uid 991); 29 May 2003 15:18:09 -0000 Message-ID: <20030529151809.29468.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Mp3 Resources In-Reply-To: Message from "boyd, rounin" of "Thu, 29 May 2003 13:17:27 +0200." <00eb01c325d3$e3918d80$e3944251@insultant.net> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 11:18:09 -0400 > all this spam is beginning to annoy me -- time for active measures. The simplest thing is to disallow non-list-member postings. We can figure out what to do about the usenet gateway afterwards. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 30 00:25:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 30 00:25:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16615 invoked by uid 1020); 30 May 2003 00:25:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16611 invoked from network); 30 May 2003 00:25:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 May 2003 00:25:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C32819A71; Thu, 29 May 2003 11:25:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AAEE919A71 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 May 2003 11:24:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <212968-30533>; Thu, 29 May 2003 11:24:47 -0400 Message-ID: <001901c325f6$70d38a00$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030529151809.29468.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Mp3 Resources MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 17:24:46 +0200 > The simplest thing is to disallow non-list-member postings. > We can figure out what to do about the usenet gateway afterwards. no, i want to erradicated the _whole problem_, not just for one list. and i reckon i know how. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 30 01:05:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 30 01:05:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17516 invoked by uid 1020); 30 May 2003 01:05:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17512 invoked from network); 30 May 2003 01:05:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 May 2003 01:05:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 23E7C19AA3; Thu, 29 May 2003 12:05:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from pandora.afflictions.org (asylum.afflictions.org [64.7.134.90]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E80019A6C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 May 2003 12:04:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by pandora.afflictions.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 4485F5A5B1; Thu, 29 May 2003 12:05:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Damian Gerow To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Mp3 Resources Message-ID: <20030529160515.GM49578@afflictions.org> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030529151809.29468.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> <001901c325f6$70d38a00$e3944251@insultant.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <001901c325f6$70d38a00$e3944251@insultant.net> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.8-RC on a i386 X-GPG-Fingerprint: B3D7 D901 A53A 1A99 BFD6 E6DF 9F3B 742B C288 9CC9 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 12:05:16 -0400 Thus spake boyd, rounin (boyd@insultant.net) [29/05/03 11:25]: > > The simplest thing is to disallow non-list-member postings. > > We can figure out what to do about the usenet gateway afterwards. > > no, i want to erradicated the _whole problem_, not just for one list. > > and i reckon i know how. Care to share with the rest of us? There's a large number of people currently investigating ways to kill spam. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 30 01:15:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 30 01:15:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17601 invoked by uid 1020); 30 May 2003 01:15:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17597 invoked from network); 30 May 2003 01:15:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 May 2003 01:15:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 654EA19AA4; Thu, 29 May 2003 12:15:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from Princeton.EDU (postoffice02.Princeton.EDU [128.112.130.38]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 787B619AA4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 May 2003 12:14:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU (smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.65]) by Princeton.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4TGERSJ013779 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 May 2003 12:14:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from princeton.edu (albion.Princeton.EDU [128.112.234.82]) by smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4TGERtr029414 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 May 2003 12:14:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3ED631E3.FF7373B4@princeton.edu> From: Martin Harriss Organization: Princeton University OIT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Mp3 Resources References: <20030529151809.29468.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> <001901c325f6$70d38a00$e3944251@insultant.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 12:14:27 -0400 "boyd, rounin" wrote: > > > The simplest thing is to disallow non-list-member postings. > > We can figure out what to do about the usenet gateway afterwards. > > no, i want to erradicated the _whole problem_, not just for one list. > > and i reckon i know how. Does it involve large thermonuclear devices? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 30 04:48:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 30 04:48:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20274 invoked by uid 1020); 30 May 2003 04:48:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20270 invoked from network); 30 May 2003 04:48:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 May 2003 04:48:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B303A19AA7; Thu, 29 May 2003 15:48:19 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3254C19A98 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 May 2003 15:47:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <39cf858d7d27eee411d011a9ecc00bee@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] PXE and 9load, miserable together Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 15:47:22 -0400 PXE starts the program it loads at 0x7C00 in 16 bit mode. 9load is really a 32 bit mode program that expects to be running at 0x80010000. We need a cross twixt ld.com and 9load that does the right thing, i.e., that knows to cross from 16 bit mode to 32 bit mode and things its running at the right place. I'll do it and call it 9pxeload. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 30 14:41:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 30 14:41:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5901 invoked by uid 1020); 30 May 2003 14:41:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5897 invoked from network); 30 May 2003 14:41:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 May 2003 14:41:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 87D5619AC0; Fri, 30 May 2003 01:41:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.snqa.sh (unknown [210.22.96.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B7D3819AA0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 01:40:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Vitug [211.158.41.38] by mail.snqa.sh (SMTPD32-7.05) id AF2FE0024; Fri, 30 May 2003 13:42:52 +0800 From: "Beverly Low" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_0530031340" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000 Message-Id: <200305301342750.SM02720@Vitug> Subject: [9fans] =?ISO-8859-3?B?OWZhbnMsSGVpZ2h0ZW4gTW9vZCAmIEltcHJvdmUgU2V4dUBsIERlc2lyZQ==?= Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: "Beverly Low" List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 05:40:52 GMT ------=_NextPart_0530031340 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWw+PGhlYWQ+PHRpdGxlPjwvdGl0bGU+PG1ldGEgaHR0cC1lcXVpdj1Db250ZW50LVR5cGUg Y29udGVudD0idGV4dC9odG1sOyBjaGFyc2V0PWdiMjMxMiI+PC9oZWFkPjxib2R5IGJnY29sb3I9 I0ZGRkZGRiB0ZXh0PSMwMDAwMDA+PHA+U3VwcG9zZSB3ZSB0ZWxsIHlvdSB0aGF0IHlvdSBjb3Vs ZCByZWFsbHkgbG9zZSB1cCB0byA4MiUgb2YgeW91ciB1bndhbnRlZCBib2R5IGZhdCBhbmQga2Vl cCBpdCBvZmYgaW4ganVzdCBhIGZldyBtb250aHMsIHdvdWxkIHlvdSBiZSBpbnRlcmVzdGVkPyBX ZSBjZXJ0YWlubHkgaG9wZSBzbyE8YnI+IEhhdmUgeW91IHRyaWVkIGp1c3QgYWJvdXQgZXZlcnkg ZGlldCBvdXQgdGhlcmUtYnV0IG5vdGhpbmcgc2VlbXMgdG8gd29yaz8hIFRoZW4gZG9uJ3QgbWlz cyB0aGlzIGltcG9ydGFudCBtZXNzYWdlITxicj4gV2UgaW52aXRlIHlvdSB0byBleHBlcmllbmNl IHRoZSBtb3N0IGFkdmFuY2VkIHdlaWdodCBMb3NzIHByb2R1Y3QgYXZhaWxhYmxlIChoZ2ggb3Jh bCBzcHJheSkgd2UgZ3VhcmFudGVlIGZvciB5b3UgdG8gbG9zZSB3ZWlnaHQgcXVpY2tseSwgc2Fm ZWx5IGFuZCBrZWVwIGl0IG9mZiBmb3IgZ29vZCBmb3JldmVyITxicj4gQXMgc2VlbiBvbiBOQkMs IENCUywgYW5kIENOTiwgYW5kIGV2ZW4gT3ByYWghIEhnaCBhY3R1YWxseSBoZWxwcyB0byByZXZl cnNlIGFnaW5nIHdoaWxlIGJ1cm5pbmcgZmF0IHdpdGhvdXQgZGlldGluZyBvciBleGVyY2lzZSE8 YnI+IFRvIGNoZWNrIG91dCBvdXIgcmVhbCBsaWZlIHRlc3RpbW9uaWFscyBhdCB3d3cubGl1eWkt bHRkLmNvbTxicj4gV2UgbWFudWZhY3R1cmUgYW5kIHNoaXAgZGlyZWN0bHkgdG8geW91ciBkb29y LiBXZSBndWFyYW50ZWUgdGhlIGhpZ2hlc3QgcXVhbGl0eSBhbmQgbG93ZXN0IHByaWNlLjxicj4g VGFrZSBhZHZhbnRhZ2Ugb2Ygb3VyIExJTUlURUQgdGltZSBzcGVjaWFsIG9mZmVyIHBsZWFzZSB2 aXNpdCBvdXIgd2ViIHNpdGUgPGEgaHJlZj1odHRwOi8vd3d3LmxpdXlpLWx0ZC5jb20vPmNsaQ0K Y2sgaGVyZTwvYT48L3A+PHA+PGEgaHJlZj1odHRwOi8vd3d3LmxpdXlpLWx0ZC5jb20vcm0uaHRt bD5SZW1vdmUgbWFpbDwvYT48L3A+PC9ib2R5PjwvaHRtbD4= ------=_NextPart_0530031340-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 30 16:46:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 30 16:46:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11943 invoked by uid 1020); 30 May 2003 16:46:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11939 invoked from network); 30 May 2003 16:46:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 May 2003 16:46:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF26B19ABD; Fri, 30 May 2003 03:46:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from paris.com (unknown [211.54.53.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C896719ABD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 03:45:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 6.248.44.242 ([6.248.44.242]) by public.micromail.com.au with SMTP; 30 May 2003 03:37:59 +0400 Message-ID: From: "Georg Martin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Subject: [9fans] F0REIGN PH@RMACIES HELP Y0U S@VE MONEY...courtesy of MARK Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: "Georg Martin" List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 03:43:22 -0300 Are you t@king @ny prescription d r u g s? B u y from Canadian pharmacy online. Thousands of p@tients are buying d r u g s online at a fraction of U.S. prices. W@rning: We only service p@tients with valid prescriptions. http://www.pacificmedications.com N0t interested: http://www.pacificmedications.com/cgi/off_list.pl YifNfkgrqiqyb CmmrvdtAcujlwpe :) :):) :) i4 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 30 22:20:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 30 22:20:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20538 invoked by uid 1020); 30 May 2003 22:20:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20533 invoked from network); 30 May 2003 22:20:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 May 2003 22:20:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BC2D919ACE; Fri, 30 May 2003 09:20:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 003AB19AC3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 09:19:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4UDJeqt026688 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 07:19:40 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4UDJeIG013084 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 07:19:40 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] BOF timing Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 07:19:40 -0600 (MDT) I'm just checking again -- I'm there from june 7 to june 14. Any interest in a BOF wednesday or thursday night? ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 30 22:44:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 30 22:44:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20928 invoked by uid 1020); 30 May 2003 22:44:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20924 invoked from network); 30 May 2003 22:44:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 May 2003 22:44:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8975319AD0; Fri, 30 May 2003 09:44:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5BD7319ABC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 09:43:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19Lk6m-0001fo-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 30 May 2003 14:39:48 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Anthony Mandic <6@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3ED7420E.7DB54954@hotmail.com> Organization: Mandic Consulting Pty. Ltd. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <20030529151809.29468.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu>, <20030529160515.GM49578@afflictions.org> Subject: Re: [9fans] Mp3 Resources Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 13:39:37 GMT Damian Gerow wrote: > > Thus spake boyd, rounin (boyd@insultant.net) [29/05/03 11:25]: > > > > no, i want to erradicated the _whole problem_, not just for one list. > > > > and i reckon i know how. > > Care to share with the rest of us? There's a large number of people > currently investigating ways to kill spam. After coming across this - http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q99/8/84.asp in comp.risks a while back, I settled on a more proactive spam deflection policy (and since it sticks to to Hotmail as well, I'm killing two birds). -am © 2003 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 30 22:51:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 30 22:51:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21121 invoked by uid 1020); 30 May 2003 22:51:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21117 invoked from network); 30 May 2003 22:51:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 May 2003 22:51:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C309319ADA; Fri, 30 May 2003 09:51:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B29ED19AD5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 09:50:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557386-20408>; Fri, 30 May 2003 09:50:08 -0400 Message-ID: <014401c326b2$61b08b60$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3ED7420E.7DB54954@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Mp3 Resources MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 15:50:07 +0200 > Care to share with the rest of us? dws works, but i have an even better idea: http://www.insultant.net/repo/dws.html From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri May 30 22:52:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri May 30 22:52:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21150 invoked by uid 1020); 30 May 2003 22:52:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21146 invoked from network); 30 May 2003 22:52:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 May 2003 22:52:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5720319ADE; Fri, 30 May 2003 09:52:17 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 85F4619AD1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 09:51:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <74ded0f5bd544f58fffc3c7e0f23884a@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <3ED61D7E.1060108@proweb.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 14:55:19 +0100 > >Wow! That's almost exactly my history too! Thanks for the link, it > >brought back many happy memories. The 380Z had the best > >"Software front panel" (in ROM), that I've ever seen, before or since. > > > just basic for me, I was 10/11 y.o. > We only got access to it outside of school hours but luckily I was the > only one of the 1000+ pupils interested in doing so. i also remember the 380Z with fondness (and the "J103" code... amazing how these things stay with you!). i used to use it to produce documents, printed on our new flash daisywheel, using a program called TexEd AFAIR, which was my first introduction to troff-like escape sequences. when i came across troff on unix later, i felt completely at home! i never did anything but the most redimentary programming on the 380Z though: BBC B's were the thing. it still amazes me how fast BBC basic was, especially when i recall it used 32-bits (floating point by default!) for all its arithmetic. it was partly the abiding memory of that gloriously simple platform that made me veer towards plan 9, i think. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 00:00:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 00:00:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22146 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 00:00:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22142 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 00:00:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 00:00:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1689A19AC9; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:00:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0004119AC3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 10:59:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Mp3 Resources From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <014401c326b2$61b08b60$e3944251@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 16:02:37 +0100 > dws works deep water soloing? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 00:11:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 00:11:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22343 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 00:11:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22339 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 00:11:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 00:11:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8D0F619AC8; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:11:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5A9C419A66 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:10:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <213041-5723>; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:09:02 -0400 Message-ID: <01f201c326bd$674bc840$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] Mp3 Resources MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 17:09:00 +0200 > deep water soloing? did you _read_ the script? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 00:14:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 00:14:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22396 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 00:14:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22392 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 00:14:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 00:14:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D58D19ADC; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:14:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C05D19AC3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:13:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27237 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:13:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h4UFD0514016 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:13:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305301513.h4UFD0514016@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] BOF timing In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 30 May 2003 07:19:40 MDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 11:13:00 -0400 > I'm just checking again -- I'm there from june 7 to june 14. Any interest > in a BOF wednesday or thursday night? I think that might be okay, but I've got to check the timing again. I'm supposed to go to Corpus Christi sometime around then. Where exactly will the BoF be? If it's someplace close by, maybe I'll ride the Harley out. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 00:18:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 00:18:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22458 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 00:18:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22454 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 00:18:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 00:18:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D2D0D19AD9; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:18:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EDC9019A66 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:17:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28384 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:17:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h4UFHj514080 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:17:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305301517.h4UFHj514080@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 30 May 2003 14:55:19 BST." <74ded0f5bd544f58fffc3c7e0f23884a@vitanuova.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 11:17:45 -0400 > i also remember the 380Z with fondness (and the "J103" code... > amazing how these things stay with you!). I don't know about that, but when my mother went into labor while pregnant with me, my father drove her to the hospital in a Datsun 280Z. Now that was a nice car; the classic definition of sporty, with a straight six engine and a four speed manual transmission. I once rebuilt the clutch for my brother, who held on to it for many years, but gave it up shortly before he was killed. Somewhat ironic, that. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 00:19:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 00:19:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22501 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 00:19:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22497 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 00:19:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 00:19:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ECDCA19AE1; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:19:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 443C219AC3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:18:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] BOF timing In-Reply-To: <200305301513.h4UFD0514016@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 11:18:03 -0400 I'll arrive at the airport around 8:15 on Wed. If it's a late boff, I'll make it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 00:20:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 00:20:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22519 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 00:20:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22515 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 00:20:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 00:20:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0452B19AE3; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:20:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D984619ADD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:19:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28734 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:19:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h4UFJD514092 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:19:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305301519.h4UFJD514092@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Mp3 Resources In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 30 May 2003 16:02:37 BST." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 11:19:12 -0400 > > dws works > > deep water soloing? Die, Worthless Spammer! Somebody should make a video game. Make it a first person shooter, like Unreal Tournament (gotta dig the sniper rifle in that one), but with spammers instead of aliens. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 00:22:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 00:22:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22548 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 00:22:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22544 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 00:22:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 00:22:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B69F719AE6; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:22:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E14BC19AC3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:21:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29240 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:21:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h4UFLC514147 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:21:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305301521.h4UFLC514147@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] BOF timing In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 30 May 2003 11:18:03 EDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 11:21:11 -0400 > I'll arrive at the airport around 8:15 on Wed. If it's > a late boff, I'll make it. Umm, no offense, but if there's any boffing involved, I think I'll stay home instead, thanks. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 00:25:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 00:25:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22564 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 00:25:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22560 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 00:25:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 00:25:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5F79419AC3; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:25:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cleese.nas.com (cleese.nas.com [198.182.207.3]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6E69719A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:24:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (cleese.nas.com [198.182.207.3]) by cleese.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8ED93644C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 08:24:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Jack Johnson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] BOF timing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 08:24:18 -0700 (PDT) On Fri, 30 May 2003, ron minnich wrote: > I'm just checking again -- I'm there from june 7 to june 14. Any interest > in a BOF wednesday or thursday night? I would love to be there, though I won't be attending (and probably wouldn't have much to contribute, but I make a decent sponge). For what it's worth, if you received the USENIX booklet in the mail, this is the insane coaster from the back cover: http://www.rcdb.com/installationdetail605.htm Just in case you need a different kind of BOF gathering afterwards. -Jack From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 00:26:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 00:26:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22597 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 00:26:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22593 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 00:26:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 00:26:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D59119AE8; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:25:29 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0BD3E19A66 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:24:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <23745d9eb658c54c99b5fb31437791ab@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Mp3 Resources From: paurea@plan9.escet.urjc.es In-Reply-To: <200305301519.h4UFJD514092@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 17:24:28 +0200 > Somebody should make a video game. Make it a first person shooter, like > Unreal Tournament (gotta dig the sniper rifle in that one), but with > spammers instead of aliens. Isn't speaking of spam itself spam?. Maybe it is meta-spam.... Gorka From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 00:33:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 00:33:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22660 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 00:33:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22655 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 00:33:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 00:33:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 079A519AE7; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:33:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DADFD19A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:32:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <212968-5730>; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:32:17 -0400 Message-ID: <020601c326c0$a67b9880$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200305301517.h4UFHj514080@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 17:32:15 +0200 nah, the 180B From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 00:37:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 00:37:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22707 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 00:37:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22703 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 00:37:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 00:37:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 326A019AD5; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:37:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B6D6C19A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:36:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02941 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:36:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h4UFaX514254 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:36:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305301536.h4UFaX514254@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Mp3 Resources In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 30 May 2003 17:24:28 +0200." <23745d9eb658c54c99b5fb31437791ab@plan9.escet.urjc.es> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 11:36:32 -0400 > > Somebody should make a video game. Make it a first person shooter, like > > Unreal Tournament (gotta dig the sniper rifle in that one), but with > > spammers instead of aliens. > > Isn't speaking of spam itself spam?. Maybe it is meta-spam.... Not when answering a question. But, since you asked... writing such a video game would be a way to MAKE MONEY FAST!!!! I don't know if it could do much to enhance either one's breast or penis size (or both!), so you may not HAVE THE EXTRA 3" YOU'VE ALWAYS WANTED!!!! But I understand that there's a widowed wife of a Nigerian diplomat who will be willing to send an interested party startup cash from an escrow account containing funds seized from the illegal trade of diamonds. (URGENT AND CONFIDENTIAL) - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 00:39:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 00:39:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22793 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 00:39:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22789 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 00:39:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 00:39:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EDD3E19A66; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:39:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 41B2719A66 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:38:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4UFc6fD001342 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 09:38:06 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4UFc6IG019125 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 09:38:06 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] BOF timing In-Reply-To: <200305301513.h4UFD0514016@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 09:38:06 -0600 (MDT) On Fri, 30 May 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > > I'm just checking again -- I'm there from june 7 to june 14. Any interest > > in a BOF wednesday or thursday night? > > I think that might be okay, but I've got to check the timing again. I'm > supposed to go to Corpus Christi sometime around then. Where exactly will > the BoF be? If it's someplace close by, maybe I'll ride the Harley out. we'll have to sneak you in, Usenix claim is it is open to registered attendees only but who's going to give any shit to a guy on a harley? Can you ride it through the hotel doors and up the stairs to the room? Should resolve any issues. Anyway get back to me on timing. IF I can figure out how to set up a BOF I'll do it. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 00:44:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 00:44:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22867 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 00:44:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22863 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 00:44:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 00:44:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ACE2319AE5; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:44:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF72519AD8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:43:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h4UFgHrG008768 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 09:42:17 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h4UFgHI3008764 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 09:42:17 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Mp3 Resources In-Reply-To: <200305301536.h4UFaX514254@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 09:42:17 -0600 (MDT) On Fri, 30 May 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > Not when answering a question. But, since you asked... writing such > a video game would be a way to MAKE MONEY FAST!!!! always nice to be able to bring slashdot into the discussion: 1. Make a Plan 9 FPSS (first person spammer shooter) 2. Make everybody in the world install Plan 9 3. ... 4. Profit!!!! andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 00:53:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 00:53:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22983 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 00:53:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22979 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 00:53:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 00:53:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 17F2319A6C; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:53:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CFB7919AD1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:52:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06794 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:52:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h4UFqf514417 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:52:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305301552.h4UFqf514417@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] BOF timing In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 30 May 2003 09:38:06 MDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 11:52:41 -0400 > > I think that might be okay, but I've got to check the timing again. I'm > > supposed to go to Corpus Christi sometime around then. Where exactly will > > the BoF be? If it's someplace close by, maybe I'll ride the Harley out. > > we'll have to sneak you in, Usenix claim is it is open to registered > attendees only but who's going to give any shit to a guy on a harley? > > Can you ride it through the hotel doors and up the stairs to the room? > Should resolve any issues. > > Anyway get back to me on timing. IF I can figure out how to set up a BOF > I'll do it. If it helps, I can bring a couple of guns, too. This is in Texas, after all. Seriously, though, I don't think it'll be too hard to get in. Right now, I'm thinking Thursday is probably better, but I'll know definitely this evening. Who all is going to be there? - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 00:59:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 00:59:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23142 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 00:59:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23138 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 00:59:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 00:59:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D41EE19AE2; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:59:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4B6FF19AE2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:58:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4UFwRfD009289 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 09:58:27 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4UFwRIG019899 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 09:58:27 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] BOF timing In-Reply-To: <200305301552.h4UFqf514417@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 09:58:27 -0600 (MDT) On Fri, 30 May 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > Seriously, though, I don't think it'll be too hard to get in. Right now, > I'm thinking Thursday is probably better, but I'll know definitely this > evening. Who all is going to be there? so far it's me, andrey, presotto, and ..... I'm bringing the plan 9 solid state cluster. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 01:06:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 01:06:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23313 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 01:06:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23309 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 01:06:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 01:06:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3AE4B19AF1; Fri, 30 May 2003 12:06:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2AB5719AD8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 12:05:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4UG5Oqt017603 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 10:05:24 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4UG5OIG020186 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 10:05:24 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] I'll try to set up a bof Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 10:05:24 -0600 (MDT) thursday night. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 01:06:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 01:06:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23322 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 01:06:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23318 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 01:06:49 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 01:06:49 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A99B119AF3; Fri, 30 May 2003 12:06:29 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id D037D19AD1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 12:05:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 5899 invoked by uid 991); 30 May 2003 16:05:36 -0000 Message-ID: <20030530160536.5898.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] BOF timing In-Reply-To: Message from ron minnich of "Fri, 30 May 2003 09:58:27 MDT." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 12:05:36 -0400 | so far it's me, andrey, presotto, and ..... | | I'm bringing the plan 9 solid state cluster. For those of us who can't make it, it would be cool if you guys could take notes and pictures and post them here afterwards. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 01:10:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 01:10:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23388 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 01:10:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23384 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 01:10:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 01:10:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2988E19AEB; Fri, 30 May 2003 12:10:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6DA1B19AD1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 12:09:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4UG9Aqt019602 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 10:09:10 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4UG9AIG020349 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 10:09:10 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] BOF timing In-Reply-To: <20030530160536.5898.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 10:09:10 -0600 (MDT) OK, somebody who's coming, bring your digital camera. I've asked for a 9-11 slot. I'm hoping to get some hacking done too. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 01:34:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 01:34:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23654 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 01:34:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23650 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 01:34:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 01:34:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B40DD19A02; Fri, 30 May 2003 12:34:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cleese.nas.com (cleese.nas.com [198.182.207.3]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4F98A19A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 12:33:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (cleese.nas.com [198.182.207.3]) by cleese.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46D5D3644C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 09:33:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Jack Johnson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] 9pm broken? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 09:33:32 -0700 (PDT) Am I crazy, or is awk broken in 9pm? du -a | awk '{print $2}' returns nada, as does awk '{print "hi"}' (or am I mired in linuxisms?) -Jack P.S. This is all on XP, if it matters. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 03:01:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 03:01:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24531 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 03:01:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24527 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 03:01:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 03:01:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1379619AE0; Fri, 30 May 2003 14:01:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cleese.nas.com (cleese.nas.com [198.182.207.3]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 247CB19AC6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 14:00:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (cleese.nas.com [198.182.207.3]) by cleese.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1EBE3644C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 10:59:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Jack Johnson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9pm broken In-Reply-To: <39cf858d7d27eee411d011a9ecc00bee@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 10:59:59 -0700 (PDT) Sorry, my mistake. I have cygwin in my path. -J From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 03:42:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 03:42:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24942 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 03:42:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24938 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 03:42:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 03:42:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8C05E19AF8; Fri, 30 May 2003 14:42:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BD32D19AC6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 14:41:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15372 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 14:41:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h4UIf0514971 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 14:41:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200305301841.h4UIf0514971@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] BOF timing In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 30 May 2003 10:09:10 MDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 14:41:00 -0400 > OK, somebody who's coming, bring your digital camera. Okay, I'll bring mine, if they let me in. > I've asked for a 9-11 slot. I'm hoping to get some hacking done too. Cool. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 03:44:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 03:44:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24963 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 03:44:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24959 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 03:44:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 03:44:42 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2F67019AEE; Fri, 30 May 2003 14:44:37 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.74.5]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F38E19AEA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 14:43:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisco.com (144.254.74.60) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 30 May 2003 20:42:57 +0100 Received: from cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4UIfkCo010501 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 20:41:46 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dfawcus@localhost) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) id TAA08348 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 30 May 2003 19:43:38 +0100 (BST) From: Derek Fawcus To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick Message-ID: <20030530194338.G3780@edinburgh.cisco.com> References: <3ED61D7E.1060108@proweb.co.uk> <74ded0f5bd544f58fffc3c7e0f23884a@vitanuova.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <74ded0f5bd544f58fffc3c7e0f23884a@vitanuova.com>; from rog@vitanuova.com on Fri, May 30, 2003 at 02:55:19PM +0100 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 19:43:38 +0100 On Fri, May 30, 2003 at 02:55:19PM +0100, rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > > >Wow! That's almost exactly my history too! Thanks for the link, it > > >brought back many happy memories. The 380Z had the best > > >"Software front panel" (in ROM), that I've ever seen, before or since. > > > > > just basic for me, I was 10/11 y.o. > > We only got access to it outside of school hours but luckily I was the > > only one of the 1000+ pupils interested in doing so. > > i also remember the 380Z with fondness (and the "J103" code... > amazing how these things stay with you!). You're not the only one, we also had one at middle school. We eventually got a second one. As I recall it was my first real play about with computers - that and a PET. I recall typing in the verion of missile command that was printed in PCW, also as I recall someone at school wrote a version on Joust for it. > i never did anything but the most redimentary programming on the 380Z > though: BBC B's were the thing. it still amazes me how fast BBC basic > was, especially when i recall it used 32-bits (floating point by > default!) for all its arithmetic. I seem to recall that the Beeb came out a bit later - the 380Z was at school when I started, the Beeb came out what a couple of years later, since I also seem to recall wanting a ZX80/ZX81 around that time - must have been '80/'81. Yeah Beeb basic was 'good', the best bit thought was the built in assembler! In fact I've still got my Beeb (Model A upgraded to model B so as to save 50 quid), kept for the express purpose of playing Elite, thought the last time I played Elite was on a Beeb emulator. I guess at some point I should dig the beast out of it's box and see if it still works... DF From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 03:47:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 03:47:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25019 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 03:47:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25015 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 03:47:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 03:47:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1DDF819AF0; Fri, 30 May 2003 14:47:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D49FA19AC6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 14:46:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557623-20416>; Fri, 30 May 2003 14:45:49 -0400 Message-ID: <004e01c326db$af6c27a0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200305301841.h4UIf0514971@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] BOF timing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 20:45:46 +0200 can't we make it a plan 9 BOOF[head]? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 03:53:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 03:53:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25056 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 03:53:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25052 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 03:53:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 03:53:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EB4B519AEA; Fri, 30 May 2003 14:53:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 94C8B199ED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 14:52:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4UIq1fD005187 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 12:52:01 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4UIq1IG027487 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 12:52:01 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] BOF timing In-Reply-To: <004e01c326db$af6c27a0$e3944251@insultant.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 12:52:01 -0600 (MDT) On Fri, 30 May 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > can't we make it a plan 9 BOOF[head]? that would have been too smart for me to think of. I did Plan 9 Show and Tell Sorry, bad name, I ran out of ideas. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 03:55:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 03:55:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25083 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 03:55:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25079 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 03:55:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 03:55:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7EF76199ED; Fri, 30 May 2003 14:55:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 07D0B19AF5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 14:54:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557582-20413>; Fri, 30 May 2003 14:54:02 -0400 Message-ID: <006f01c326dc$d4ca6380$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200305301519.h4UFJD514092@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Mp3 Resources MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 20:53:58 +0200 > Somebody should make a video game. Make it a first person shooter, like > Unreal Tournament (gotta dig the sniper rifle in that one), but with > spammers instead of aliens. there was some sort of flash based exe i got a while back and you could snipe at stuff, and as you got better it got harder. it was based around some US western bar theme ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 03:55:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 03:55:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25102 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 03:55:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25088 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 03:55:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 03:55:36 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 04CC319AFC; Fri, 30 May 2003 14:55:30 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cleese.nas.com (cleese.nas.com [198.182.207.3]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E921B19AC6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 14:54:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (cleese.nas.com [198.182.207.3]) by cleese.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD19C364C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 11:54:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Jack Johnson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick In-Reply-To: <20030530194338.G3780@edinburgh.cisco.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 11:54:35 -0700 (PDT) On Fri, 30 May 2003, Derek Fawcus wrote: > I seem to recall that the Beeb came out a bit later - the 380Z was at > school when I started, the Beeb came out what a couple of years later, > since I also seem to recall wanting a ZX80/ZX81 around that time - must > have been '80/'81. The Timex/Sinclair 1000 (the American ZX81) was my first home computer, must've been '81 or so as well. I still remember buying my T/S 2068 when all my friends were buying C64s and later realizing I had probably made a mistake. My 2068 is still in the garage, next to the BeBox. Growing up on a T/S 1000 makes me pine for a Jupiter Ace to add to my collection of "doorstops", as my wife calls them. -Jack From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 03:58:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 03:58:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25141 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 03:58:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25137 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 03:58:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 03:58:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CBD6D19B01; Fri, 30 May 2003 14:58:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5C4C719AF5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 14:57:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <81bb64a172526c2b471d6db3e451dd44@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] PXE boot? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-lysckoeezhwfybqyjnkiautroi" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 14:57:28 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-lysckoeezhwfybqyjnkiautroi Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The 32k limitation doesn't seem to be true. The limitiation is architecture dependent and the PC seems to have chosen infinite, though there is a practical limit of (640-28)K because of where things get loaded. I've got 9load saying hello but it crashes when it jumps to 32 bit mode. My forehead is getting bloodier by the minute. --upas-lysckoeezhwfybqyjnkiautroi Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed May 28 14:59:26 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Wed May 28 14:59:24 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E696519A97; Wed, 28 May 2003 14:59:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 91D3F19A78 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 14:58:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4SIweqt029714 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 12:58:40 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4SIweIG028936 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 12:58:40 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] PXE boot? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 12:58:40 -0600 (MDT) I thought that PXE could only handle a 32-KB boot image. I have heard this quite a few times. I read the standard years ago but was sufficiently impressed that the standard was filed in the manner it deserved, so I no longer have access to it. Anyway, if my 32KB guess is true, you may have to have PXE load etherboot, and then have etherboot load 9load in the way that you did last summer at LANL. See this: http://news.gw.com/freebsd.cluster/275 for a discussion of some PXE limitations. I just did some quick looking round and just about everything that uses PXE uses it to boot a little stub thing (etherboot, etc.) that in turn boots the real thing. You may want to get etherboot, build it with the PXE options, and see how far you get. ron --upas-lysckoeezhwfybqyjnkiautroi-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 03:58:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 03:58:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25153 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 03:58:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25149 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 03:58:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 03:58:48 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 33BED19B03; Fri, 30 May 2003 14:58:30 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AD7E119AF5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 14:57:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4UIvbfD006751 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 12:57:37 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4UIvbIG027674 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 12:57:37 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Mp3 Resources In-Reply-To: <006f01c326dc$d4ca6380$e3944251@insultant.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 12:57:37 -0600 (MDT) On Fri, 30 May 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > > Somebody should make a video game. Make it a first person shooter, like > > Unreal Tournament (gotta dig the sniper rifle in that one), but with > > spammers instead of aliens. Why not SCO Lawyers instead of spammers? ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 04:03:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 04:03:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25233 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 04:03:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25229 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 04:03:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 04:03:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8A96B19AC6; Fri, 30 May 2003 15:03:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ADF5919AD1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 15:02:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <212645-5736>; Fri, 30 May 2003 15:01:45 -0400 Message-ID: <009a01c326dd$e8f7fce0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] Mp3 Resources MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 21:01:06 +0200 > Why not SCO Lawyers instead of spammers? SCO, my god, that was lunix++ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 04:04:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 04:04:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25242 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 04:04:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25237 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 04:04:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 04:04:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 84A4919AFA; Fri, 30 May 2003 15:04:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8DA2519AC6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 15:03:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4UJ3CfD008540 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 13:03:13 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4UJ3CIG027937 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 13:03:12 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] PXE boot? In-Reply-To: <81bb64a172526c2b471d6db3e451dd44@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 13:03:12 -0600 (MDT) On Fri, 30 May 2003, David Presotto wrote: > The 32k limitation doesn't seem to be true. The limitiation is architecture > dependent and the PC seems to have chosen infinite, though there is a > practical limit of (640-28)K because of where things get loaded. I've > got 9load saying hello but it crashes when it jumps to 32 bit mode. ah, good news. Not about your forehead, but about the 32k limitation. Maybe it was from very early versions, not sure. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 04:21:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 04:21:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25482 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 04:21:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25478 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 04:21:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 04:21:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 75EBF19B0C; Fri, 30 May 2003 15:21:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B9D9C19AF9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 15:20:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h4UJK6rG009321 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 13:20:06 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h4UJK60p009317 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 13:20:06 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] PXE boot? In-Reply-To: <81bb64a172526c2b471d6db3e451dd44@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 13:20:06 -0600 (MDT) On Fri, 30 May 2003, David Presotto wrote: > The 32k limitation doesn't seem to be true. The limitiation is architecture > dependent and the PC seems to have chosen infinite, though there is a > practical limit of (640-28)K because of where things get loaded. I've > got 9load saying hello but it crashes when it jumps to 32 bit mode. > My forehead is getting bloodier by the minute. > i'm there too. i gave up though -- etherboot won't recognize the gigabit ethernet card on this box, so i'm waiting until i get a card etherboot can use. another suggestion: why not do a three-stage boot? the dhcp configuration for etherboot (linux dhcp, though, not sure if supported in plan9) has this interesting option: if substring (option vendor-class-identifier, 0, 9) = "PXEClient" { filename "/tftpboot/etherboot"; } else { filename "/tftpboot/9load"; } the first time it loads the etherboot kernel, which then repeats the same operation, but is this time given a 9load, which is masked as a linux kernel image (this is what Ron uses to boot the small solid-state cluster). then 9load could proceed loading any way it likes (still no plan9.ini at this point, though). this way there is no restriction on the size of the 9load image. I can't test this right now, unfortunately. andrey ps: i'm aiming for an even better setup -- PXE downloads etherboot through the gige card, etherboot downloads 9load through a 100baseT rtl card i've stuck in the machine just for that purpose, 9load does something else that i haven't decided upon yet. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 04:33:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 04:33:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25590 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 04:33:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25586 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 04:33:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 04:33:37 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6CF2B19B05; Fri, 30 May 2003 15:33:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7F07119ABA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 15:32:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h4UJVWrG009369 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 13:31:32 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h4UJVWFf009365 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 13:31:32 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] 4-node plan9 cluster Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 13:31:32 -0600 (MDT) this is the cluster Ron will show on usenix: http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~mirtchov/p9/cluster/ andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 04:42:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 04:42:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25752 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 04:42:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25748 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 04:42:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 04:42:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8092719AF9; Fri, 30 May 2003 15:42:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0925519AD8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 15:41:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4UJfefD021829 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 13:41:40 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4UJfeIG029576 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 13:41:40 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] PXE boot? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 13:41:40 -0600 (MDT) On Fri, 30 May 2003, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > i'm there too. i gave up though -- etherboot won't recognize the gigabit > ethernet card on this box, so i'm waiting until i get a card etherboot can > use. ah, etherboot. such pain. you wanna go gross? you can do this: - boot linux - have linux kexec the plan9 loader, after we convert it into an elfimage ah, the horror, linux is now a plan9 loader bootstrap. What do you think? It would work. Or we convert the plan9 kernel to an elfimage, pass it to linux, and let linux boot plan9. That will work too. > the first time it loads the etherboot kernel, which then repeats the same > operation, but is this time given a 9load, which is masked as a linux kernel > image (this is what Ron uses to boot the small solid-state cluster). then > 9load could proceed loading any way it likes (still no plan9.ini at this > point, though). this way there is no restriction on the size of the 9load > image. actually 9load is an elfimage, not masked as a linux kernel image. Subtle but important difference: you can conceivably generate elfimages on your plan9 box, but linux kernel images? the horror. andrey, you can get 1 GHZ M-EPIA cards for $100, run linuxbios, put 9load in flash, and forget etherboot. Why not do that? ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 04:44:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 04:44:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25771 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 04:44:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25767 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 04:44:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 04:44:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2EE5B19B15; Fri, 30 May 2003 15:44:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A124419AF6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 15:43:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <212834-5737>; Fri, 30 May 2003 15:43:40 -0400 Message-ID: <00b001c326e3$c3c1de40$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] 4-node plan9 cluster MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 21:43:36 +0200 > http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~mirtchov/p9/cluster/ jesus! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 04:51:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 04:51:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25874 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 04:51:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25870 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 04:51:15 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 04:51:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 87F5319B0B; Fri, 30 May 2003 15:50:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BC29F19B0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 15:49:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h4UJmSrG009444 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 13:48:28 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h4UJmSfl009440 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 13:48:28 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 4-node plan9 cluster In-Reply-To: <00b001c326e3$c3c1de40$e3944251@insultant.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 13:48:28 -0600 (MDT) On Fri, 30 May 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > > http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~mirtchov/p9/cluster/ > > jesus! > well, it's not a 11/50, i have to admit... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 04:54:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 04:54:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25920 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 04:54:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25916 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 04:54:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 04:54:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 96B7019AFE; Fri, 30 May 2003 15:54:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A491F19AAE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 15:53:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <212812-5747>; Fri, 30 May 2003 15:53:13 -0400 Message-ID: <00b801c326e5$18ec2000$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] PXE boot? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 21:53:09 +0200 > ah, the horror, linux is now a plan9 loader bootstrap. What do you think? in some deluded fit of dementia i bought some magazine in sweden and installed redhat on my 600 series vaio; dual boot lunix/windows. you could just not kill it. i had to format the whole damn disk to get on with my plan 9 plans. note to self: take redhat cd's outdoors somewhere and waste 'em with my 'MP5-A5' -- a 30 round clip, full auto, 700rpm, should do it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 04:58:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 04:58:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25950 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 04:58:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25946 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 04:58:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 04:58:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 55F7019B1F; Fri, 30 May 2003 15:58:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CDE8F19AEF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 15:57:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4UJvBfD027283 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 13:57:11 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h4UJvAIG030150 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 13:57:10 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] PXE boot? In-Reply-To: <00b801c326e5$18ec2000$e3944251@insultant.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 13:57:10 -0600 (MDT) On Fri, 30 May 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > note to self: take redhat cd's outdoors somewhere and waste 'em > with my 'MP5-A5' -- a 30 round clip, full auto, 700rpm, should do it. might work on spammers too. I find the microwave much more fun for RedHat disks ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 04:59:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 04:59:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25963 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 04:59:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25959 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 04:59:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 04:59:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7DD7219B22; Fri, 30 May 2003 15:59:17 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2621819AD1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 15:58:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h4UJvOrG009478 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 13:57:24 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h4UJvORl009474 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 13:57:24 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] PXE boot? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 13:57:24 -0600 (MDT) On Fri, 30 May 2003, ron minnich wrote: > andrey, you can get 1 GHZ M-EPIA cards for $100, run linuxbios, put 9load > in flash, and forget etherboot. > i can't have dedicated plan9 machines here -- the linux projects for other people are more important. that's why i resort to running several cpu servers under vmware whenever i want to do anything in a non-standalone plan9 environment. andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 05:06:54 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 05:06:54 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26028 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 05:06:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26024 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 05:06:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 05:06:42 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 74F1B19B3D; Fri, 30 May 2003 16:06:18 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C8A2519B17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 16:05:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557585-20413>; Fri, 30 May 2003 16:04:40 -0400 Message-ID: <012701c326e6$b1fbab20$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] PXE boot? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 22:04:35 +0200 > I find the microwave much more fun for RedHat disks http://www.insultant.net/banks/hsbc From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat May 31 07:58:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat May 31 07:58:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28309 invoked by uid 1020); 31 May 2003 07:58:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28305 invoked from network); 31 May 2003 07:58:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 May 2003 07:58:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1DC1519AF5; Fri, 30 May 2003 18:58:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2542119A0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 May 2003 18:57:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] BOF timing From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 15:57:36 -0700 I'll be there, arriving at the airport Wednesday just after 18h. 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