From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 05:02:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 05:02:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17371 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 05:02:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17367 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 05:02:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 05:02:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CBF49199BF; Sat, 31 May 2003 16:02:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from swordfish (unknown [216.241.35.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 42CB6199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 16:01:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from matt by swordfish with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19MCY8-0000DY-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 14:01:56 -0600 From: Matt Gushee To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20030531200156.GA627@swordfish> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Subject: [9fans] VGA trubble agin Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Matt Gushee List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 14:01:56 -0600 Hello, folks-- Well, I am making another attempt to install Plan9. This time the machine is a vintage IBM PC, and the video card is some sort of ATI Mach 64 PCI model (bought it used, so I don't have documentation for it ... suppose I can pull it out and look up the FCC ID if necessary). For a monitor, I'm using an AOC Spectrum 5E (identified as Generic 65 Mhz in plan9.ini, which I think is correct). Anyway, when I start up with the installation floppy, it goes through the loading sequence and starts up VGA, but with a twist: ... let's see if I can describe this ... VGA is clearly "working," and 2 or 3 windows are visible: a--is "virtual terminal" the right name?--an XTerm-like thingie, and something labeled "gnot" with several colored bars, BUT: the display is broken up into several vertical bands: if you can imagine taking a screenshot, making 4 or 5 copies, then cropping each one to a narrow vertical slice, with each slice starting slightly to the right of the previous one, then laying them out side by side with a 4-6-pixel dark stripe in between ... that's what it looks like. I should add that I've tried different video modes: 1024x768@16bpp, 1024x768@8bpp, 800x600@16bpp ... same thing happens regardless. Has anyone seen a phenomenon like this? I'm attaching my 'vgainfo.txt' and 'pci.txt' in case they are useful. I suppose I could try the built-in video card, but it's an S3 Trio64V+, and I see that's on the "not tested with this version" list. Anyway, I'd appreciate any suggestions you have. -- vgainfo.txt --------------------------------------------------------- main->snarf vga->snarf mach64xx->snarf vga->attr: 0xC00E1=MACH64GTPCIUYMU vga->dump vga misc 67 vga feature 00 vga sequencer 03 00 03 00 02 vga crt 5F 4F 50 82 55 81 BF 1F - 00 4F 0D 0E 00 00 05 F0 9C 8E 8F 28 1F 96 B9 A3 - FF vga graphics 00 00 00 00 00 10 0E 00 - FF vga attribute 00 01 02 03 04 05 14 07 - 38 39 3A 3B 3C 3D 3E 3F 0C 00 0F 08 00 vga virtual 0 0 vga panning off vga vm a b 16777216 0 vga vmz 4194304 vga apz 8388608 vga linear 1 mach64xx->dump mach64xx pci 4b1a8 io 1000 pciregs mach64xx ccru 300 mach64xx HTotalDisp 004F005F mach64xx HSyncStrtWid 00010055 mach64xx VTotalDisp 018F01BF mach64xx VSyncStrtWid 000E019C mach64xx VlineCrntVline 019F03FF mach64xx OffPitch 0A000000 mach64xx IntCntl 00000015 mach64xx CrtcGenCntl 02410200 mach64xx OvrClr 40360C18 mach64xx OvrWidLR 00000000 mach64xx OvrWidTB 00000000 mach64xx CurClr0 000C9027 mach64xx CurClr1 88198202 mach64xx CurOffset 00000000 mach64xx CurHVposn 00000000 mach64xx CurHVoff 00000000 mach64xx ScratchReg0 04900400 mach64xx ScratchReg1 00000000 mach64xx ClockCntl 00CD0000 mach64xx BusCntl 7333A040 mach64xx MemCntl 104211B7 mach64xx ExtMemCntl 05000001 mach64xx MemVgaWpSel 00010000 mach64xx MemVgaRpSel 00010000 mach64xx DacRegs 00FF3740 mach64xx DacCntl 8501600A mach64xx GenTestCntl 00000008 mach64xx ConfigCntl 00001002 mach64xx ConfigChipId 41004754 mach64xx ConfigStat0 00000015 mach64xx ConfigStat1 00000000 mach64xx ConfigStat2 00000000 mach64xx DspConfig 00000000 mach64xx DspOnOff 00000000 mach64xx DpBkgdClr FFFFFFFF mach64xx DpChainMsk FFFFFFFF mach64xx DpFrgdClr FFFFFFFF mach64xx DpMix FFFFFFFF mach64xx DpPixWidth FFFFFFFF mach64xx DpSrc FFFFFFFF mach64xx DpWriteMsk FFFFFFFF mach64xx LcdIndex 00000000 mach64xx LcdData 00000000 mach64xx PLL CD D5 21 14 9A 03 FB E8 - C4 00 00 E1 A6 1B 00 00 CD D5 21 14 9A 03 FB E8 - C4 00 00 E1 A6 1B 00 00 mach64xx VCLK0 25165286 mach64xx VCLK1 28347104 mach64xx VCLK2 0 mach64xx VCLK3 0 rom table offset 102 freq table offset 68A memclk 67000000 ref_freq 14320000 ref_divider 33 min_freq 9260000 max_freq 222180000 pd 3 value 0 (|3) post = 8 mach64xx pixel clock = 25160000 ATI BIOS rom 0x102 freq 0x0 clock 0x68a clocks: 43605 60224 19067 255 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 328 0 0 16969 programmable clock: 4 clock to program: 3 reference numerator: 14320 reference denominator: 1 internal clock reference divider in plls panelid 85 x 1 y 0 vmf 0 vmdf 40000000 vf1 0 vbw 65000000 vga->init mach64xx->init rom table offset 102 freq table offset 68A memclk 6700 memclk 6700... x 6.700000...t 6... xprec 3...fifosz 214.400000...fprec 8...prec 3...afifosz 32...fifooff 208.000000...pfc 4...rcc 5...fifoon 25.000000... dbdumpmode type=multisync65, size=800x600x16 frequency=40000000 x=800 (0x320), y=600 (0x258), z=16 (0x10) ht=1056 (0x420), shb=840 (0x348), ehb=1000 (0x3E8) shs=840 (0x348), ehs=1000 (0x3E8) vt=633 (0x279), vrs=605 (0x25D), vre=607 (0x25F) hsync=0, vsync=0, interlace=0 vga->attr: 0xC00E1=MACH64GTPCIUYMU vga->dump vga flag Fdump|Finit|Fsnarf vga misc E3 vga feature 00 vga sequencer 03 01 0F 00 0A vga crt 7F 63 68 9D 69 9D277 F0 - 00 60 00 00 00 00 00 00 25D 2F257 C8 6025D25E A3 -7FF vga graphics 00 00 00 00 00 50 05 0F - FF vga attribute 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 - 08 09 0A 0B 0C 0D 0E 0F 41 FF 0F 00 00 vga virtual 800 600 vga panning off vga clock[0] f 40000000 vga clock[0] d i m 0 0 - 33 vga clock[0] n p q r 184 4 - 0 0 vga vm a b 16777216 0 vga vmz 4194304 vga apz 8388608 vga linear 1 mach64xx->dump mach64xx flag Ulinear|Uenhanced|Fdump|Finit|Fsnarf mach64xx pci 4b1a8 io 1000 pciregs mach64xx ccru 300 mach64xx HTotalDisp 00630083 mach64xx HSyncStrtWid 00140068 mach64xx VTotalDisp 02570278 mach64xx VSyncStrtWid 0002025C mach64xx VlineCrntVline 019F03FF mach64xx OffPitch 19000000 mach64xx IntCntl 00000000 mach64xx CrtcGenCntl 03010400 mach64xx OvrClr 00000000 mach64xx OvrWidLR 00000000 mach64xx OvrWidTB 00000000 mach64xx CurClr0 000C9027 mach64xx CurClr1 88198202 mach64xx CurOffset 00000000 mach64xx CurHVposn 00000000 mach64xx CurHVoff 00000000 mach64xx ScratchReg0 04900400 mach64xx ScratchReg1 00000000 mach64xx ClockCntl 00000002 mach64xx BusCntl 7333A040 mach64xx MemCntl 104211B7 mach64xx ExtMemCntl 05000001 mach64xx MemVgaWpSel 00010000 mach64xx MemVgaRpSel 00010000 mach64xx DacRegs 00FF3740 mach64xx DacCntl 8501600A mach64xx GenTestCntl 00000008 mach64xx ConfigCntl 00000000 mach64xx ConfigChipId 41004754 mach64xx ConfigStat0 00000015 mach64xx ConfigStat1 00000000 mach64xx ConfigStat2 00000000 mach64xx DspConfig 003A06B3 mach64xx DspOnOff 00C80680 mach64xx DpBkgdClr FFFFFFFF mach64xx DpChainMsk FFFFFFFF mach64xx DpFrgdClr FFFFFFFF mach64xx DpMix FFFFFFFF mach64xx DpPixWidth 00040404 mach64xx DpSrc FFFFFFFF mach64xx DpWriteMsk FFFFFFFF mach64xx LcdIndex 00000000 mach64xx LcdData 00000000 mach64xx PLL CD D5 21 14 9A 03 EB E8 - C4 B8 00 A1 A6 1B 00 00 CD D5 21 14 9A 03 FB E8 - C4 00 00 E1 A6 1B 00 00 mach64xx VCLK0 25165286 mach64xx VCLK1 28347104 mach64xx VCLK2 39917350 mach64xx VCLK3 0 rom table offset 102 freq table offset 68A memclk 67000000 ref_freq 14320000 ref_divider 33 min_freq 9260000 max_freq 222180000 pd 3 value 0 (|3) post = 8 mach64xx pixel clock = 25160000 main->exits -- EOF ----------------------------------------------------------------- -- pci.txt ------------------------------------------------------------- 0.0.0: 06.00.00 8086/04d0 0 0.1.0: 06.01.00 8086/122e 0 0.1.1: 01.01.80 8086/1230 0 4:00005001 16 0.11.0: 03.00.00 1002/4754 255 0:40000000 16777216 1:00001001 256 2:41000000 4096 0.8.0: 03.00.00 5333/8811 0 0:70000000 67108864 -- EOF ----------------------------------------------------------------- -- Matt Gushee When a nation follows the Way, Englewood, Colorado, USA Horses bear manure through mgushee@havenrock.com its fields; http://www.havenrock.com/ When a nation ignores the Way, Horses bear soldiers through its streets. --Lao Tzu (Peter Merel, trans.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 05:21:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 05:21:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17622 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 05:21:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17618 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 05:21:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 05:21:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 67D5E199BB; Sat, 31 May 2003 16:21:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 780E6199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 16:20:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <85550d0a21a8518c4b4434c6cdf44193@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] VGA trubble agin In-Reply-To: <20030531200156.GA627@swordfish> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 16:19:59 -0400 I know exactly what your screen looks like. Unfortunately, this sort of thing means the memory timings aren't quite correct w.r.t. the video timings, and I don't remember how to go about fixing it. It usually requires futzing with the driver. I hate the ATI Mach64 series. They require way too many weird calculations and we never got them right. You might have better luck with the Trio64V+ (or you might not, but it's worth trying). Those at least never gave me that weird striped effect. Another possibility is that you're running the monitor at too high a frequency, though if it fails at 640x480 then that's not the case (we use a standard frequency for 640x480). Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 05:52:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 05:52:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18014 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 05:52:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18010 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 05:52:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 05:52:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 52AFC19A89; Sat, 31 May 2003 16:52:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from swordfish (unknown [216.241.35.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D997619981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 16:51:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from matt by swordfish with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19MDK0-0000Ga-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 14:51:24 -0600 From: Matt Gushee To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] VGA trubble agin Message-ID: <20030531205124.GB627@swordfish> References: <20030531200156.GA627@swordfish> <85550d0a21a8518c4b4434c6cdf44193@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <85550d0a21a8518c4b4434c6cdf44193@plan9.bell-labs.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Matt Gushee List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 14:51:24 -0600 On Sat, May 31, 2003 at 04:19:59PM -0400, Russ Cox wrote: > > You might have better luck with the Trio64V+ > (or you might not, but it's worth trying). > Those at least never gave me that weird striped > effect. OK, I pulled out the ATI card and am now trying with the S3 ... and I'm happy to say that it's working! Well, more or less. Actually, I specified 800x600x8 in plan9.ini, and my actual display is squashed horizontally so that it's more like 600x600. So I hope there's a way to fix this, but it's at least usable for the time being. -- Matt Gushee When a nation follows the Way, Englewood, Colorado, USA Horses bear manure through mgushee@havenrock.com its fields; http://www.havenrock.com/ When a nation ignores the Way, Horses bear soldiers through its streets. --Lao Tzu (Peter Merel, trans.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 05:57:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 05:57:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18073 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 05:57:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18069 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 05:57:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 05:57:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C328E19AA6; Sat, 31 May 2003 16:57:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from swordfish (unknown [216.241.35.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C891E19A26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 16:56:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from matt by swordfish with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19MDOy-0000HF-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 14:56:32 -0600 From: Matt Gushee To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] VGA trubble agin Message-ID: <20030531205632.GC627@swordfish> References: <20030531200156.GA627@swordfish> <85550d0a21a8518c4b4434c6cdf44193@plan9.bell-labs.com> <20030531205124.GB627@swordfish> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030531205124.GB627@swordfish> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Matt Gushee List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 14:56:32 -0600 On Sat, May 31, 2003 at 02:51:24PM -0600, Matt Gushee wrote: > > OK, I pulled out the ATI card and am now trying with the S3 ... and I'm > happy to say that it's working! Well, more or less. Actually, I > specified 800x600x8 in plan9.ini, and my actual display is squashed > horizontally so that it's more like 600x600. So I hope there's a way to > fix this, In case anyone was going to worry about this, don't. I remembered the row of buttons on the bottom of my monitor. It's fixed. -- Matt Gushee When a nation follows the Way, Englewood, Colorado, USA Horses bear manure through mgushee@havenrock.com its fields; http://www.havenrock.com/ When a nation ignores the Way, Horses bear soldiers through its streets. --Lao Tzu (Peter Merel, trans.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 07:12:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 07:12:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19076 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 07:12:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19072 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 07:12:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 07:12:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4B1F219A99; Sat, 31 May 2003 18:12:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A0F919A26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 18:11:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h4VMAmNx004101 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 16:10:48 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h4VMAm5Q004097 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 16:10:48 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] plan9 resources in bulgarian Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 16:10:48 -0600 (MDT) Hello, Most of you would probably not be interested in this, but every once in a while I see postings from people with distinctively bulgarian names (and spelling errors ;) on this list, so I decided to start gathering all bulgarian plan9 resources in a common place, akin to the russian plan9 web page Andrey Kukhar (I believe) has at http://ask.km.ru/plan9/... the address for the bulgarian plan9 page is: http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~mirtchov/p9/bulgarian/ and I'd be happy to add any documents/translation/software written in bulgarian there... anyway, just for the archives... andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 08:38:16 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 08:38:16 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20286 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 08:38:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20282 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 08:38:15 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 08:38:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8D9A819A82; Sat, 31 May 2003 19:38:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from priv-edtnes12-hme0.telusplanet.net (outbound03.telus.net [199.185.220.222]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 92BA619ABA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 19:37:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([207.6.125.223]) by priv-edtnes12-hme0.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.17 201-253-122-126-117-20021021) with ESMTP id <20030531233741.JEGE10340.priv-edtnes12-hme0.telusplanet.net@localhost.localdomain> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 17:37:41 -0600 Received: (qmail 1029 invoked by uid 500); 31 May 2003 23:48:03 -0000 Message-ID: <20030531234803.1028.qmail@infidel.telus.net> From: "Taj Khattra" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] compare-by-hash Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 31 May 2003 23:48:03 -0000 do the venti/fossil folks have any comments on the 'An Analysis of Compare-by-hash' paper at HotOS-IX http://www.usenix.org/events/hotos03/tech/henson.html or is it crying wolf ? -taj From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 08:54:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 08:54:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20493 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 08:54:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20489 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 08:54:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 08:54:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AFAC519B17; Sat, 31 May 2003 19:54:06 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5810519981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 19:53:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <25d1687f63e163bdd5b5c44e5be5a8d0@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <20030531234803.1028.qmail@infidel.telus.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 00:48:19 +0100 i suspect venti does actually do the extra check: packetSha1(p, score); u = lookupLump(score, type); if(u->data != nil){ ok = 1; if(packetCmp(p, u->data) != 0){ setErr(EStrange, "score collision"); ok = 0; } From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 08:55:14 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 08:55:14 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20506 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 08:55:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20502 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 08:55:14 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 08:55:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A03E019B3E; Sat, 31 May 2003 19:55:06 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 497B519B20 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 19:54:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42a1ec9c5fef102e9c9ec920db53bccf@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash In-Reply-To: <20030531234803.1028.qmail@infidel.telus.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 19:54:05 -0400 The paper seems correct on most things, but is unfair to Venti. Venti is closer to hashing than compare-by-hash. Venti does look for SHA1 hash collisions -- once a block with a particular SHA1 hash has been written, you can't write any others. Therefore you can't possibly end up thinking there are two different blocks stored on the same server and represented by the same SHA1 hash -- the store of the second will fail! Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 08:57:16 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 08:57:16 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20539 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 08:57:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20535 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 08:57:15 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 08:57:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C237319B41; Sat, 31 May 2003 19:57:06 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B064B19AD1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 19:56:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <20030531234803.1028.qmail@infidel.telus.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 00:50:56 +0100 i did also think it was rich that someone from Sun suggests ``keep some state!'' to avoid undetected errors when people have had to suffer `stateless' NFS in various ways for years. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 08:59:16 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 08:59:16 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20559 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 08:59:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20555 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 08:59:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 08:59:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 444EF19AD1; Sat, 31 May 2003 19:59:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from otto.int.entrisphere.com (unknown [63.203.52.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1AAD219B20 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 19:58:03 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C327D0.7881B116" Subject: RE: [9fans] compare-by-hash Message-ID: <6A0F443DA784CE4E864740DD14BC16BB1003FA@otto.int.entrisphere.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <6A0F443DA784CE4E864740DD14BC16BB1003FA@otto.int.entrisphere.com> Thread-Topic: [9fans] compare-by-hash thread-index: AcMn0BGpowTW/r7kSZ24tYylcMt/rwAAGNrQ From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 16:58:02 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C327D0.7881B116 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 YW5kIHRoZW4gd2hhdD8NCg0KCS0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tIA0KCUZyb206IFJ1 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AAAAA5w= ------_=_NextPart_001_01C327D0.7881B116-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 09:01:15 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 09:01:15 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20641 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 09:01:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20637 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 09:01:15 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 09:01:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5B31F19B33; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:01:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1FCAB19A70 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:00:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4624842fa54a1aa9e4b1731a4779b82d@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: RE: [9fans] compare-by-hash In-Reply-To: <6A0F443DA784CE4E864740DD14BC16BB1003FA@otto.int.entrisphere.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 20:00:43 -0400 And then you're out of luck, but at least you're not blissfully using the wrong data. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 09:17:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 09:17:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20899 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 09:17:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20895 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 09:17:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 09:17:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 980F319ABA; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:17:23 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.180]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3247219981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:16:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-21-61.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.21.61 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 00:16:47 -0000 Message-ID: <3ED953A8.2020806@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash References: <4624842fa54a1aa9e4b1731a4779b82d@plan9.bell-labs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 20:15:20 -0500 > > >And then you're out of luck, but at least you're >not blissfully using the wrong data. > Still, the knowledge that collisions have a probability of occuring is slightly unsettling. What are the statistics regarding probability of collisions in the venti, anyways? > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 09:24:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 09:24:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20962 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 09:24:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20958 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 09:24:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 09:24:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 79B2F19B3F; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:24:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5574719B21 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:23:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <52172b457fb0379198c1bed1613d51df@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash In-Reply-To: <3ED953A8.2020806@ameritech.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 20:23:36 -0400 > Still, the knowledge that collisions have a probability > of occuring is slightly unsettling. What are the statistics > regarding probability of collisions in the venti, anyways? Read the Venti paper and the link that was just posted. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 09:25:10 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 09:25:10 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20981 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 09:25:10 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20977 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 09:25:10 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 09:25:10 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F229419B29; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:25:05 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E20CF19981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:24:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05063 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:24:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h510OS521703 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:24:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306010024.h510OS521703@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 31 May 2003 20:15:20 CDT." <3ED953A8.2020806@ameritech.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 20:24:28 -0400 > >And then you're out of luck, but at least you're > >not blissfully using the wrong data. > > Still, the knowledge that collisions have a probability > of occuring is slightly unsettling. What are the statistics > regarding probability of collisions in the venti, anyways? Extremely low. It's much more likely the disk will spontaneously levitate first. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 09:25:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 09:25:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20990 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 09:25:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20986 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 09:25:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 09:25:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DA96919A26; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:25:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.183]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 99AC419981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:24:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-21-61.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.21.61 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 00:24:55 -0000 Message-ID: <3ED95597.5000806@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash References: <52172b457fb0379198c1bed1613d51df@plan9.bell-labs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 20:23:35 -0500 > > >Read the Venti paper and the link that was just posted. > Done > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 09:29:11 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 09:29:11 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21048 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 09:29:10 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21044 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 09:29:10 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 09:29:10 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E3E8E19B50; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:29:05 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D2FFE19A70 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:28:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mero.morphisms.net (mero.morphisms.net [66.93.84.246]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77CDD24FE8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:28:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mero.morphisms.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5897D27A; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:28:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 20:28:01 -0400 From: William Josephson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash Message-ID: <20030601002801.GA94089@mero.morphisms.net> References: <4624842fa54a1aa9e4b1731a4779b82d@plan9.bell-labs.com> <3ED953A8.2020806@ameritech.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3ED953A8.2020806@ameritech.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-No-archive: yes Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: On Sat, May 31, 2003 at 08:15:20PM -0500, northern snowfall wrote: > >And then you're out of luck, but at least you're > >not blissfully using the wrong data. > > Still, the knowledge that collisions have a probability > of occuring is slightly unsettling. What are the statistics I'm not sure I see why: are you equally paranoid that the bits in core will be flipped by a passing alpha particle? I have to confess I don't see why people are so afraid of randomization. For something like venti it is worth working out the numbers and probably worth detecting collisions, but the chances of silently losing/corrupting data due to disk firmware or driver bugs, for instance, seems much worse. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 09:46:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 09:46:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21265 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 09:46:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21261 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 09:46:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 09:46:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F3FAE19B20; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:46:06 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 12F4919AAE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:45:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h510jCO7016266 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 17:45:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <2bfd05fc9c83edad16da1284c188141b@centurytel.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: <200306010024.h510OS521703@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 16:49:28 -0700 > Extremely low. It's much more likely the disk will spontaneously > levitate first. A finite improbability then? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 09:49:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 09:49:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21299 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 09:49:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21295 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 09:49:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 09:49:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1D2D519B4F; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:49:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.181]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 76C8519981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:48:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-21-61.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.21.61 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 00:48:05 -0000 Message-ID: <3ED95B04.2070707@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash References: <4624842fa54a1aa9e4b1731a4779b82d@plan9.bell-labs.com> <3ED953A8.2020806@ameritech.net> <20030601002801.GA94089@mero.morphisms.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 20:46:44 -0500 > > >I'm not sure I see why: are you equally paranoid that the >bits in core will be flipped by a passing alpha particle? > I find that to be an odd comparison. Being aware of what variables are present in your environment and how they can possibly affect your work is imperative. I find it hard to see that as paranoia. I simply did not know the facts or the statistics. That's why I ask questions ;). >I have to confess I don't see why people are so afraid of >randomization. > Who said I was afraid of randomization? I just want to know the facts so that I am aware of the possibilities I must face when trusting a given environment. >For something like venti it is worth working >out the numbers and probably worth detecting collisions, but >the chances of silently losing/corrupting data due to disk >firmware or driver bugs, for instance, seems much worse. > That may be true, but, how can I know that without any facts? If you admit that venti is worth working out the numbers, why even make this rant? Don > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 10:39:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 10:39:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22048 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 10:39:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22044 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 10:39:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 10:39:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C2B3819B7D; Sat, 31 May 2003 21:39:05 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EE1D819B42 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 21:38:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mero.morphisms.net (mero.morphisms.net [66.93.84.246]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F57724FAC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 21:38:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mero.morphisms.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8892225C; Sat, 31 May 2003 21:38:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 21:38:09 -0400 From: "William K. Josephson" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash Message-ID: <20030601013809.GA94559@mero.morphisms.net> References: <4624842fa54a1aa9e4b1731a4779b82d@plan9.bell-labs.com> <3ED953A8.2020806@ameritech.net> <20030601002801.GA94089@mero.morphisms.net> <3ED95B04.2070707@ameritech.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3ED95B04.2070707@ameritech.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-No-archive: yes Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: On Sat, May 31, 2003 at 08:46:44PM -0500, northern snowfall wrote: > >For something like venti it is worth working > >out the numbers and probably worth detecting collisions, but > >the chances of silently losing/corrupting data due to disk > >firmware or driver bugs, for instance, seems much worse. > > That may be true, but, how can I know that without any facts? > If you admit that venti is worth working out the numbers, why > even make this rant? It isn't a rant. I'm just amused that people in general are often so worried about hash collisions but willing to tolerate common software systems which it is painfully obvious are far less reliable. For instance, where I have been working recently, people will trust important data to filesystems that are easily crashed and corrupted, but they worry more about sha1 hash collisions. I find fsck and failed disks much scarier since they can and do burn me with some regularity :-) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 10:44:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 10:44:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22118 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 10:44:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22114 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 10:44:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 10:44:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3D41A19B4E; Sat, 31 May 2003 21:44:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 237C119A0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 21:43:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h511hQO7018380 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 18:43:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Skip Tavakkolian" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] httpd scripting Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 17:47:42 -0700 Has anyone done any deep thinking on this? I've just started looking into it. I have looked at Pegasus, but I need something a little more specialized. My own preference is for an awk-like environment but nothing definite yet. I want to process code fragments inside html docs, the same thing as jsp,asp,php, etc. P.S. Yes, I could go with Apache or something else on a different OS, but I don't want to. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 10:58:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 10:58:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22360 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 10:58:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22356 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 10:58:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 10:58:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D6D7C19B43; Sat, 31 May 2003 21:58:06 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id EC1CE19AFF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 21:57:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 10887 invoked by uid 991); 1 Jun 2003 01:57:44 -0000 Message-ID: <20030601015744.10886.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash In-Reply-To: Message from "William K. Josephson" of "Sat, 31 May 2003 21:38:09 EDT." <20030601013809.GA94559@mero.morphisms.net> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 21:57:44 -0400 | I'm just amused that people in general | are often so worried about hash collisions but willing to | tolerate common software systems which it is painfully | obvious are far less reliable. Agreed. Andrew Hume has written some nice usenix papers on the topic. In my experience, it's not at all uncommon for a big cluster to flip some bits when you aren't looking. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 11:00:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 11:00:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22387 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 11:00:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22383 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 11:00:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 11:00:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4BA3919B87; Sat, 31 May 2003 22:00:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp807.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp807.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.186]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4389D19B71 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 21:59:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-21-61.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.21.61 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 01:59:33 -0000 Message-ID: <3ED96BC4.7080206@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash References: <4624842fa54a1aa9e4b1731a4779b82d@plan9.bell-labs.com> <3ED953A8.2020806@ameritech.net> <20030601002801.GA94089@mero.morphisms.net> <3ED95B04.2070707@ameritech.net> <20030601013809.GA94559@mero.morphisms.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 21:58:12 -0500 > > >It isn't a rant. > It's a rant when you assume things that are not proven. >I'm just amused that people in general >are often so worried about hash collisions but willing to >tolerate common software systems which it is painfully >obvious are far less reliable. > Maybe you should be less amused and more realistic, understanding that most people are secure in what techniques are proven over time. File systems bound by hashing isn't well known or used by the majority of people. I think people are just being safe with their data. When you put people in a situation where their critical data is placed in an unproved containment facility, they tend to have questions and doubts. That's nothing more than survival. Imagine if the CDC was introduced to a new technique for solidifying critical germs in vacuum facilities. Don't you think they would have a lot of questions, doubts and theories as to why the introduced technique may not work? >For instance, where I have >been working recently, people will trust important data to >file systems that are easily crashed and corrupted, but they >worry more about sha1 hash collisions. I find fsck and >failed disks much scarier since they can and do burn me >with some regularity :-) > Instead of condemning them for their 'worries', maybe you should sit down with them and discuss in detail the pros and cons of a hash based system. Allowing for open commentary and assertion of facts will help you win over most people. They're just looking for a sense of security and reliability. There isn't anything wrong with that. Work with people, not against them :) Don > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 11:58:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 11:58:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23308 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 11:58:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23304 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 11:58:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 11:58:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 69EC319A85; Sat, 31 May 2003 22:58:05 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3296C19981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 22:57:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mero.morphisms.net (mero.morphisms.net [66.93.84.246]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C40ED24FAC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 22:57:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mero.morphisms.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B0FF525C; Sat, 31 May 2003 22:57:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 22:57:00 -0400 From: "W. Josephson" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash Message-ID: <20030601025700.GB94803@mero.morphisms.net> References: <4624842fa54a1aa9e4b1731a4779b82d@plan9.bell-labs.com> <3ED953A8.2020806@ameritech.net> <20030601002801.GA94089@mero.morphisms.net> <3ED95B04.2070707@ameritech.net> <20030601013809.GA94559@mero.morphisms.net> <3ED96BC4.7080206@ameritech.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3ED96BC4.7080206@ameritech.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-No-archive: yes Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: On Sat, May 31, 2003 at 09:58:12PM -0500, northern snowfall wrote: > >It isn't a rant. > > It's a rant when you assume things that are not proven. Stop wearing your heart on your sleeve. > Instead of condemning them for their 'worries', maybe you should > sit down with them and discuss in detail the pros and cons of Get a grip: I'm not condemning anyone. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 12:09:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 12:09:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23494 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 12:09:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23490 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 12:09:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 12:09:36 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D5A6E19981; Sat, 31 May 2003 23:09:24 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 942C719A84 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 23:09:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-21-61.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.21.61 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 03:09:03 -0000 Message-ID: <3ED97C0E.1000604@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash References: <4624842fa54a1aa9e4b1731a4779b82d@plan9.bell-labs.com> <3ED953A8.2020806@ameritech.net> <20030601002801.GA94089@mero.morphisms.net> <3ED95B04.2070707@ameritech.net> <20030601013809.GA94559@mero.morphisms.net> <3ED96BC4.7080206@ameritech.net> <20030601025700.GB94803@mero.morphisms.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 23:07:42 -0500 > > >Get a grip: I'm not condemning anyone. > lol > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 14:53:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 14:53:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26258 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 14:53:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26254 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 14:53:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 14:53:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E61319B21; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 01:53:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 06DFF19A76 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 01:52:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA24056 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 01:52:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h515qP522964 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 01:52:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306010552.h515qP522964@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 31 May 2003 16:49:28 PDT." <2bfd05fc9c83edad16da1284c188141b@centurytel.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 01:52:25 -0400 > A finite improbability then? That's a good way to put it. The more I think about the numbers (admitedly, very little; I'm thinking more about the wrist I sprained yesterday), I really do believe the disk would levitate before the average venti would encounter a score collision (statistically speaking, of course). - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 18:04:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 18:04:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29478 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 18:04:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29474 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 18:04:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 18:04:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 908CB19A7A; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 05:04:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 38A04199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 05:03:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <83292e13cedded89b34cb69fea8b7c3d@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <200306010552.h515qP522964@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 09:57:41 +0100 what's the prize for the first person who finds a clash? fame, of course, but i was hoping for a more concrete `and fortune'. by the way, how many of you ever had `Jackpot'? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 18:13:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 18:13:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29615 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 18:13:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29611 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 18:13:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 18:13:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B16AC19A9A; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 05:13:06 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (beam.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 962DE19A84 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 05:12:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from niggle.hq.iba.co.za (linux.iba.co.za [172.24.16.11]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id h519Btl26386 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:11:57 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: <6efe3aa0dfd24bebc73b92fe8f31d5bb@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: <83292e13cedded89b34cb69fea8b7c3d@caldo.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:06:55 +0200 > what's the prize for the first person who finds a clash? > fame, of course, but i was hoping for a more concrete `and fortune'. > It strikes me that reserving a byte or two in a Venti block would allow for as many as 256 or 65536 collisions before having to panic. Is it too high a price to pay, or am I missing something fundamental? ++L PS: What's /acme/mail/Mail's secret location of user headers? I can't seem to find a reference. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 18:31:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 18:31:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29866 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 18:31:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29862 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 18:31:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 18:31:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E7D9419AA5; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 05:31:06 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (beam.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB85C199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 05:30:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from niggle.hq.iba.co.za (linux.iba.co.za [172.24.16.11]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id h519UYl26733 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:30:34 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: <2c612cc517a9935d33cae128875323ff@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: <6efe3aa0dfd24bebc73b92fe8f31d5bb@proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Lucio De Re List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:25:35 +0200 > PS: What's /acme/mail/Mail's secret location of user headers? I can't > seem to find a reference. I thought it was /mail/box/$user/headers but I could not get it to work. I see that marshal(1) does specify it. I must have had the wrong permissions. Sorry about the noise. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 21:33:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 21:33:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32618 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 21:33:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32614 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 21:33:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 21:33:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B066B19AA8; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 08:33:06 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mta02ps.bigpond.com (mta02ps.bigpond.com [144.135.25.134]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8941319A75 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 08:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.3] ([144.135.25.72]) by mta02ps.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta02ps Jul 16 2002 22:47:55) with SMTP id HFSYTN00.0TC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 22:32:11 +1000 Received: from cpe-203-51-70-206.nsw.bigpond.net.au ([203.51.70.206]) by psmam02bpa.bigpond.com(MAM V3.3.2 80/3388312); 01 Jun 2003 22:32:11 From: Nicholas Waples X-X-Sender: nickw@debian To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Geforce TI4200 working Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 22:32:11 +1000 Bought a new video card today and it didnt work. So I modified nvidia.c from aux/vga (with the help of xfree86 drivers) and I now get a screen up. (it hasnt blown up yet). See http://www.pobox.com/~nickw/src/nvidia.c Nick. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 22:28:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 22:28:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1102 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 22:28:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1098 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 22:28:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 22:28:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B7B8619AAE; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 09:28:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3808C19A9B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 09:27:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp ([61.211.130.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 22:27:00 JST 2003 Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 22:27:00 +0900 Hello, >Has anyone done any deep thinking on this? I've just started >looking into it. I have looked at Pegasus, but I need something a >little more specialized. My own preference is for an awk-like environment >but nothing definite yet. I want to process code fragments inside >html docs, the same thing as jsp,asp,php, etc. I think the solution is (html scanner) + (bidirectional pipe to a program) though Pegasus does not offer such a scanner yet. Sorry if I misunderstand what you say. Kenji Arisawa From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 23:15:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 23:15:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1909 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 23:15:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1905 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 23:15:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 23:15:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3E79819AC2; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 10:15:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from hamnavoe (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9892119A75 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 10:14:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] PXE boot? From: Richard Miller MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 15:14:16 +0100 rminnich@lanl.gov suggests: > andrey, you can get 1 GHZ M-EPIA cards for $100, run linuxbios, put 9load > in flash, and forget etherboot. A few months ago when similar motherboards were mentioned, nigel@9fs.org said: > Beware the Via C3 Eden ITX motherboard. Neither the ethernet, > vga, or audio are supported. > > I have (partial) solutions. Nigel, if you're reading this can you elaborate on your solutions? -- Richard From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 23:58:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 23:58:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2670 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 23:58:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2666 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 23:58:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 23:58:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E52FC199B3; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 10:58:06 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6251E19A75 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 10:57:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4810414c980e3d7044031e38900b5cf2@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Geforce TI4200 working In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 10:57:49 -0400 Did you have to change the kernel too? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 00:12:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 00:12:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2866 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 00:12:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2862 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 00:12:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 00:12:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2E4A519AD3; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:12:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CBCBB199EC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:11:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <212833-13175>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:11:17 -0400 Message-ID: <005b01c32850$0cd9c940$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <4624842fa54a1aa9e4b1731a4779b82d@plan9.bell-labs.com> <3ED953A8.2020806@ameritech.net> <20030601002801.GA94089@mero.morphisms.net> <3ED95B04.2070707@ameritech.net> <20030601013809.GA94559@mero.morphisms.net> <3ED96BC4.7080206@ameritech.net> <20030601025700.GB94803@mero.morphisms.net> <3ED97C0E.1000604@ameritech.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 17:11:16 +0200 > Get a grip yup, cool Aerosmith CD. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 00:21:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 00:21:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2968 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 00:21:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2964 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 00:21:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 00:21:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 345CE19AF7; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:21:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4624D19AD6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:20:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h51FKcO7018387 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 08:20:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 07:24:51 -0700 > I think the solution is > (html scanner) + (bidirectional pipe to a program) > though Pegasus does not offer such a scanner yet. I like that. Also, I am (sort of) considering a fs for scripting, mounted in httpd's namespace; Not sure how the user's client context would be forwarded to the fs (cookies, and the like). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 00:29:14 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 00:29:14 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3071 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 00:29:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3067 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 00:29:13 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 00:29:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 253C519AD7; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:29:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 845EE19AD4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:28:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <212842-13171>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:28:10 -0400 Message-ID: <009601c32852$68e6eea0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 17:28:09 +0200 > .... (cookies, and the like). those things should be blocked. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 00:37:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 00:37:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3201 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 00:37:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3197 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 00:37:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 00:37:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2505719AED; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:37:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8094A19ADB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:36:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash In-Reply-To: <2c612cc517a9935d33cae128875323ff@proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-mvcmarnrfgkuatravapmvaddgc" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:36:19 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-mvcmarnrfgkuatravapmvaddgc Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Looks like a bug to me. I'll look at it. --upas-mvcmarnrfgkuatravapmvaddgc Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Jun 1 05:31:34 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sun Jun 1 05:31:32 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EBFAA19A9E; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 05:31:05 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (beam.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB85C199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 05:30:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from niggle.hq.iba.co.za (linux.iba.co.za [172.24.16.11]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id h519UYl26733 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:30:34 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: <2c612cc517a9935d33cae128875323ff@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: <6efe3aa0dfd24bebc73b92fe8f31d5bb@proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Lucio De Re List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:25:35 +0200 > PS: What's /acme/mail/Mail's secret location of user headers? I can't > seem to find a reference. I thought it was /mail/box/$user/headers but I could not get it to work. I see that marshal(1) does specify it. I must have had the wrong permissions. Sorry about the noise. ++L --upas-mvcmarnrfgkuatravapmvaddgc-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 00:46:16 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 00:46:16 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3349 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 00:46:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3345 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 00:46:15 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 00:46:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 909F719B02; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:46:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from 9fs.org (cotswold.demon.co.uk [194.222.75.186]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 876BD19A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:45:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9fs.org ([192.168.100.103]) by 9fs.org; Sun Jun 1 16:45:36 BST 2003 Received: from 192.168.100.111 ([192.168.100.111]) by 9fs.org; Sun Jun 1 16:45:36 BST 2003 From: "Nigel Roles" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: RE: [9fans] PXE boot? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 16:45:34 +0100 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu wrote: > rminnich@lanl.gov suggests: > >> andrey, you can get 1 GHZ M-EPIA cards for $100, run linuxbios, put >> 9load in flash, and forget etherboot. > > A few months ago when similar motherboards were mentioned, > nigel@9fs.org said: > >> Beware the Via C3 Eden ITX motherboard. Neither the ethernet, vga, >> or audio are supported. >> >> I have (partial) solutions. > > Nigel, if you're reading this can you elaborate on your solutions? > > -- Richard It all depends on the chipset used. Some of the faster boards have better devices. On my board, I have Via's own ethernet (Rhine II), a trident cyber type vga, and Via's own audio. I have a Rhine II driver, but there is enough fud on the FreeBSD mailing lists about the reliability of the silicon and the documentation is so poor I don't feel very confident about the driver. I struggled for a long time with the video without getting it to work at high resolutions, so have parked it for a bit. The Plan 9 audio interface only supports soundblaster, and there is no higher level interface to allow other styles, a la devether.c. The Via audio pretends to be soundblaster pro, but actually only has the registers. Instead, the driver catches accesses to the registers and maps it to the real PCI device. Again, I did some work on this, but have stopped for now. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 00:54:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 00:54:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3482 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 00:54:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3478 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 00:54:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 00:54:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6058C19B04; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:54:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EB6A519A10 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:53:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h51FqKNx014104 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 09:52:20 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h51FqKOg014100 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 09:52:20 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Geforce TI4200 working In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 09:52:20 -0600 (MDT) did you try if this works: http://www.acl.lanl.gov/plan9/geforce4/index.html this included PIDs for all cards of the GeForce4 series. I believe somebody reported from japan that at least on one GeForce 4400 (?) the cursor was vertically mirrored... andrey On Sun, 1 Jun 2003, Nicholas Waples wrote: > > Bought a new video card today and it didnt work. So I modified > nvidia.c from aux/vga (with the help of xfree86 drivers) and I now > get a screen up. (it hasnt blown up yet). > > See http://www.pobox.com/~nickw/src/nvidia.c > > > > Nick. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 00:55:14 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 00:55:14 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3489 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 00:55:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3485 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 00:55:13 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 00:55:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D408319A00; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:55:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 388B419AFF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:54:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h51FsGO7019361 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 08:54:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1959c9df27cfa878d2c76b7f01c26b9a@centurytel.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: <009601c32852$68e6eea0$e3944251@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 07:58:30 -0700 >> .... (cookies, and the like). > > those things should be blocked. The only legitimate use I can think of (for a server) is keeping track of a session (identifying a session). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 01:01:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 01:01:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3581 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 01:01:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3577 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 01:01:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 01:01:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 712E419AFF; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 12:01:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 23EB819A10 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 12:00:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557588-8236>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:59:50 -0400 Message-ID: <00ba01c32856$d50e79a0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <1959c9df27cfa878d2c76b7f01c26b9a@centurytel.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 17:59:49 +0200 > The only legitimate use I can think of .... i don't think it's 'legitimate use' From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 01:25:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 01:25:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3848 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 01:25:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3844 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 01:25:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 01:25:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6DFED19B0E; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 12:25:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6FBC919B14 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 12:24:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <73bd82a1b7785e5f189b9cab6fa17fdc@plan9.bell-labs.com> x-quux: guy steele's favorite word? From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-rqzicpezbsstzlmishrgwgjqel" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 12:24:38 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-rqzicpezbsstzlmishrgwgjqel Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit it only allows headers starting with the following: [Hfrom] "from:", [Hto] "to:", [Hcc] "cc:", [Hbcc] "bcc:", [Hreplyto] "reply-to:", [Hinreplyto] "in-reply-to:", [Hsender] "sender:", [Hdate] "date:", [Hsubject] "subject:", [Hpriority] "priority:", [Hmsgid] "message-id:", [Hmime] "mime-", [Hcontent] "content-", [Hx] "x-", If you have something else, it ignores it. This was a failure of vision on my part, i.e., I used the same routine that parses the messages headers and it does that filtering. Should I be more liberal for /mail/box/$user/headers? --upas-rqzicpezbsstzlmishrgwgjqel Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Jun 1 11:37:23 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sun Jun 1 11:37:20 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 03AAD19ADB; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:37:05 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8094A19ADB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:36:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash In-Reply-To: <2c612cc517a9935d33cae128875323ff@proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-mvcmarnrfgkuatravapmvaddgc" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:36:19 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-mvcmarnrfgkuatravapmvaddgc Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Looks like a bug to me. I'll look at it. --upas-mvcmarnrfgkuatravapmvaddgc Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Jun 1 05:31:34 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sun Jun 1 05:31:32 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EBFAA19A9E; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 05:31:05 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (beam.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB85C199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 05:30:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from niggle.hq.iba.co.za (linux.iba.co.za [172.24.16.11]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id h519UYl26733 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:30:34 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: <2c612cc517a9935d33cae128875323ff@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: <6efe3aa0dfd24bebc73b92fe8f31d5bb@proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Lucio De Re List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:25:35 +0200 > PS: What's /acme/mail/Mail's secret location of user headers? I can't > seem to find a reference. I thought it was /mail/box/$user/headers but I could not get it to work. I see that marshal(1) does specify it. I must have had the wrong permissions. Sorry about the noise. ++L --upas-mvcmarnrfgkuatravapmvaddgc-- --upas-rqzicpezbsstzlmishrgwgjqel-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 01:49:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 01:49:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4095 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 01:49:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4091 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 01:49:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 01:49:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 360CE19B1D; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 12:49:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 697FB19B14 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 12:48:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7761d68e2e75078cc4af981e8c62b53c@plan9.bell-labs.com> quux: guy steele's favorite word? From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] /mail/box/$user/headers Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 12:48:55 -0400 new, more liberal, upas/marshal on sources. You can now stick any header you can make up into /mail/box/$user/headers. It does have to be formatted as a header, i.e., string: string. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 05:57:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 05:57:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6374 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 05:57:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6370 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 05:57:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 05:57:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA2C519A75; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 16:57:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0243B19A65 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 16:56:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp ([61.211.130.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 05:56:36 JST 2003 Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <884914AE-9473-11D7-BB00-000393A941BC@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 05:56:35 +0900 Hello, >Also, I am (sort of) considering a fs for scripting, mounted >in httpd's namespace; Fs idea may be interesting but might bring other problems. Kenji Arisawa From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 07:38:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 07:38:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7421 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 07:38:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7417 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 07:38:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 07:38:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 31A6219B06; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 18:38:21 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from excite.com (pcp465807pcs.shrpsr01.tn.comcast.net [68.47.233.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1302D19ADF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 18:36:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.webhostings4u.com ([207.238.28.226]) by external.newsubdomain.com with NNFMP; Sat, 03 May 2003 11:36:17 -0100 Received: from unknown (31.23.3.129) by mtu23.bigping.com with local; Sat, 03 May 2003 10:33:35 -0900 Received: from unknown (HELO relay.2yahoo.com) (170.137.175.181) by public.micromail.com.au with esmtp; Sat, 03 May 2003 01:30:53 -0300 Message-ID: <8ba101c310f7$f82b7530$4bb04d55@gidget26xdok> From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 User-Agent: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 118 Subject: [9fans] Up to 20-8O% savings on inkjets supplies. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 14:12:50 -0800 ODAlICAgUGVyY2VudCAgIG9mZiAgIFByaW50aW5nICAgU3VwcGxpZXMhICBq DQoNCkNvbWUgdmlzaXQgb3VyIHN0b3JlIGFuZCBleHBlcmllbmNlIHdoYXQg DQpvdGhlcnMgaGF2ZSBhbHJlYWR5LCBxdWFsaXR5IHByaW50aW5nIA0KY2Fy dHJpZGdlcyBhdCBncmVhdCBwcmljZXMuDQoNCldlIG9mZmVyIG1vc3QgYnJh bmRzIGluY2x1ZGluZywgSFAsIEVwc29uLCANCkNhbm9uLCBhbmQgTGV4bWFy ay4NCg0KVmlzaXQgdXMgdG9kYXkhDQoNCmh0dHA6Ly9xa2NscmxzZmFjdUB3 d3cucy1tLWEtci10LS1iLXUteS1zLmNvbS92ZW1zLmh0bWw/YXFkcW51dmY9 eG13d3FmanNyZHl4dnZjaXdoaGVydg0KDQotLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0KICAgICAgMTAwJSBTYXRpc2ZhY3Rp b24gR3VhcmFudGVlZC4NCg0KeWF5d2NvZGVub3RvdGNteGVodGxvDQpfX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KVG8gZGlz Y29udGludWUgYWR2ZXJ0aXNtZW50cywgdmlzaXQ6DQpodHRwOi8vc29pdXVo Y0B3d3cucy1tLWEtci10LS1iLXUteS1zLmNvbS9zMDQuaHRtbD91cXFweGRx d2prYW5vYndheHFoaWJnYj12eG5scXZsZ3Ntdnd2DQoNCmF5cXFnb3Z4ZXM= From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 07:56:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 07:56:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7580 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 07:56:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7576 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 07:56:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 07:56:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9FDBB19A64; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 18:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3BE1119A64 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 18:55:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35bd6c09a1f8cc6b79507c3dde215e81@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <83292e13cedded89b34cb69fea8b7c3d@caldo.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 15:55:15 -0700 I got jackpots from V6 diff often enough that I can still remember getting them. I can't recall any since then, and just looked at the V7 diff sources to see why: /* if(jackpot) mesg("jackpot",empty); */ Here's the explanation of what a jackpot is, from /sys/src/cmd/diff/diffreg.c:53,58 even though Plan 9 diff no longer contains any other references to jackpots: * With J in hand, the matches there recorded are * check'ed against reality to assure that no spurious * matches have crept in due to hashing. If they have, * they are broken, and "jackpot " is recorded--a harmless * matter except that a true match for a spuriously * mated line may now be unnecessarily reported as a change. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 13:10:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 13:10:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19972 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 13:10:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19968 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 13:10:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 13:10:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5AC8B199F2; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 00:10:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (sparkle.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9536019A2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 00:09:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from niggle.hq.iba.co.za (linux.iba.co.za [172.24.16.11]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id h5249Gl00254 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 06:09:18 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: <99f73d6d838d4efaf7217975bb03ad4d@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Lucio De Re List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 06:03:45 +0200 > Looks like a bug to me. I'll look at it. The very message you replied to had the additional headers in it. I'm sure it was a mistake on my part. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 13:16:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 13:16:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20283 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 13:16:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20279 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 13:16:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 13:16:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 744C719A76; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 00:16:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (sparkle.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D91F219A76 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 00:15:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from niggle.hq.iba.co.za (linux.iba.co.za [172.24.16.11]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id h524FZl00313 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 06:15:35 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: RE: [9fans] PXE boot? From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Lucio De Re List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 06:10:05 +0200 Nigel Roles says: > > I have a Rhine II driver, but there is enough fud on the FreeBSD > mailing lists about the reliability of the silicon and the documentation > is so poor I don't feel very confident about the driver. > You'll get poor performance at worst, in my opinion. While fidgetting with the PCNet driver, I realised (mistakenly, maybe) that once the driver delivers integral ethernet packets in both directions, you're done. The next layers take care of making sure there's no additional corruption. Of course, efficiency may go out the window :-) > The Plan 9 audio interface only supports soundblaster, and there > is no higher level interface to allow other styles, a la devether.c. > The Via audio pretends to be soundblaster pro, but actually only > has the registers. Instead, the driver catches accesses to the > registers and maps it to the real PCI device. Again, I did some > work on this, but have stopped for now. Sounds like a good project, putting in place a multimedia infrastructure that is workable. All the other OSes need to paint themselves out of a legacy corner, Plan 9 may be luckier. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 13:20:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 13:20:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20476 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 13:20:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20472 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 13:20:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 13:20:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CD71919AD6; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 00:20:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (sparkle.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8294D19A2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 00:19:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from niggle.hq.iba.co.za (linux.iba.co.za [172.24.16.11]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id h524Jkl00496 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 06:19:46 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: <73bd82a1b7785e5f189b9cab6fa17fdc@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Lucio De Re List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 06:14:15 +0200 > If you have something else, it ignores it. This was a > failure of vision on my part, i.e., I used the same > routine that parses the messages headers and it does that > filtering. Should I be more liberal for /mail/box/$user/headers? Yes. Although you've included X- which covers a lot of sins. I think "Organization:" ought to be in there, at the very least, but the user who sets this up oughtn't to need nannying (well, it's a user, unfortunately). ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 15:17:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 15:17:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25758 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 15:17:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25754 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 15:17:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 15:17:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DD13019A7F; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 02:17:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6858B19A27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 02:16:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Geforce TI4200 working From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 15:18:19 +0900 > did you try if this works: > > http://www.acl.lanl.gov/plan9/geforce4/index.html > > this included PIDs for all cards of the GeForce4 series. I believe somebody > reported from japan that at least on one GeForce 4400 (?) the cursor was > vertically mirrored... I don't know why you said me 'somebody'. However, I have much curiousity why two versions of nvidia drivers cannot be merged. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 15:22:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 15:22:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25937 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 15:22:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25933 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 15:22:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 15:22:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 08B5D19ADF; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 02:22:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1EFD519A2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 02:21:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h526KWNx014756 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 00:20:32 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h526KW30014752 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 00:20:32 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Geforce TI4200 working In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 00:20:32 -0600 (MDT) On Mon, 2 Jun 2003 okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote: > I don't know why you said me 'somebody'. > However, I have much curiousity why two versions of nvidia drivers > cannot be merged. > It was either Okamoto or Arisawa, it was too early in the morning to find out who exactly, besides, Montoya had just won the Monte Carlo grand prix. I apologize. andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 18:18:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 18:18:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1051 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 18:18:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1047 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 18:18:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 18:18:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 967EE19A3E; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 05:18:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4EB12199BC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 05:17:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19MlCn-0001Z2-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 02 Jun 2003 10:02:13 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Ralph Corderoy Message-ID: <1259.3ed88bff.c6f5@blake.inputplus.co.uk> Organization: InputPlus Ltd. References: <3ED61D7E.1060108@proweb.co.uk>, <74ded0f5bd544f58fffc3c7e0f23884a@vitanuova.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 09:01:58 GMT Hi, > i never did anything but the most redimentary programming on the 380Z > though: BBC B's were the thing. it still amazes me how fast BBC basic > was, especially when i recall it used 32-bits (floating point by > default!) for all its arithmetic. IIRC, an unadorned variable, e.g. `foo' was a float stored in a non-IEEE five-byte format. `foo%' was a 32-bit integer. `foo$' was a string with maximum length of 255 bytes. It was fast, and the best BASIC around at the time. Largely due to the skill of its creator, Sophie Wilson. http://www.sophie.org.uk/ She later went on to design the ARM chip's instruction set, ARM originally standing for Acorn RISC Machine. BBC BASIC written in assembly for the ARM by Sophie has traditionally been a very good torture test for ARM instruction set emulators because of its author's in-depth knowledge. Another reason it was the best BASIC was it had 16K of ROM space all to itself thanks to the BBC's `sideway ROM' feature which allowed 16K for the OS, another 16K for the BASIC interpreter, 16K for the floppy disc filing system, etc. Each being paged in at the same address in memory as required. Most other home computers had, say, 16K for the OS+BASIC+everything else. Cheers, -- Ralph Corderoy. http://inputplus.co.uk/ralph/ http://troff.org/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 18:56:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 18:56:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1932 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 18:56:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1928 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 18:56:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 18:56:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 42B4619ADB; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 05:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mta06ps.bigpond.com (mta06ps.bigpond.com [144.135.25.138]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0014719A25 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 05:55:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.3] ([144.135.25.84]) by mta06ps.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta06ps May 23 2002 23:53:28) with SMTP id HFUM8K00.GR2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 19:55:32 +1000 Received: from cpe-203-51-69-111.nsw.bigpond.net.au ([203.51.69.111]) by psmam06bpa.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.2g 116/14319149); 02 Jun 2003 19:55:31 From: Nicholas Waples X-X-Sender: nickw@debian To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Geforce TI4200 working In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 19:55:31 +1000 Nope, didnt see that. I did check my own 9fans archive, however I'd forgotten my hard disk died fairly recently so I wasnt searching much of an archive at all. Nick. On Sun, 1 Jun 2003, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > did you try if this works: > > http://www.acl.lanl.gov/plan9/geforce4/index.html > > this included PIDs for all cards of the GeForce4 series. I believe somebody > reported from japan that at least on one GeForce 4400 (?) the cursor was > vertically mirrored... > > andrey > > On Sun, 1 Jun 2003, Nicholas Waples wrote: > > > > > Bought a new video card today and it didnt work. So I modified > > nvidia.c from aux/vga (with the help of xfree86 drivers) and I now > > get a screen up. (it hasnt blown up yet). > > > > See http://www.pobox.com/~nickw/src/nvidia.c > > > > > > > > Nick. > > > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 19:52:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 19:52:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3172 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 19:52:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3168 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 19:52:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 19:52:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1E0CC19B07; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 06:52:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 6656419AEC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 06:51:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 4510 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 10:51:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO proweb.co.uk) (192.168.1.100) by juice.thebigchoice.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 10:51:35 -0000 Message-ID: <3EDB2C37.90201@proweb.co.uk> From: matt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick References: <3ED61D7E.1060108@proweb.co.uk> <74ded0f5bd544f58fffc3c7e0f23884a@vitanuova.com> <20030530194338.G3780@edinburgh.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <20030530194338.G3780@edinburgh.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 11:51:35 +0100 > > >In fact I've still got my Beeb (Model A upgraded to model B so as to >save 50 quid), kept for the express purpose of playing Elite, thought >the last time I played Elite was on a Beeb emulator. > > http://www.proweb.co.uk/~matt/Elite.jpg Now if only I'd kept the boxes of Leisure Suit Larry From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 20:56:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 20:56:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4891 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 20:56:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4887 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 20:56:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 20:56:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9132D19A2F; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 07:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id CB35919A2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 07:55:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 15149 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 11:55:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO proweb.co.uk) (192.168.1.100) by juice.thebigchoice.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 11:55:48 -0000 Message-ID: <3EDB3B44.8030805@proweb.co.uk> From: matt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 12:55:48 +0100 Skip Tavakkolian wrote: >Has anyone done any deep thinking on this? I've just started >looking into it. I have looked at Pegasus, but I need something a >little more specialized. My own preference is for an awk-like environment >but nothing definite yet. I want to process code fragments inside >html docs, the same thing as jsp,asp,php, etc. > as someone who uses PHP (and previously ASP) professionally - don't 8) RC and friends is enough if want awk then use awk 8) as for cookies, headers etc. you just need a quick script to chuck the request into the environment (which is what PHP does) I did write a script to do it once http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&threadm=015d01c22ed3%24fcc596e0%246501a8c0%40KIKE&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dgroup:comp.os.plan9%2Bhttpd%2Bmatt%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26safe%3Doff%26selm%3D015d01c22ed3%2524fcc596e0%25246501a8c0%2540KIKE%26rnum%3D1 but I seem to have lost the code during a re-install (curses for putting the magic directory outside of /usr ) All you really need to do is split the headers on the first colon : ([^:]+): ?(.*) (after skipping past the first line) and then pop the results into the environment echo $match_2 > /env/$match_1 when you run out of matches the rest of stdin is the body & you might even be able to trust the Content-Length value From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 21:12:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 21:12:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5925 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 21:12:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5920 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 21:12:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 21:12:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EB4AF199B9; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:12:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ns.dbSystems.com (unknown [67.65.88.161]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D7FCC19A25 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:11:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kds (gw.eot.dbSystems.com [67.65.88.165]) by ns.dbSystems.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with SMTP id h52BYwe07985 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 06:34:59 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from gdb@dbSystems.com) Message-ID: <13b301c32900$56569700$644cb2cc@kds> From: "David Butler" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3EDB3B44.8030805@proweb.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 07:12:51 -0500 I did a lot of work in the http area on Plan 9, back on version 2 of the system. I took the approach that anything is executable (compiled) instead of scripting. It was fast and very flexible. Perhaps I can see what it takes to get it on version 4 and make it available... David ----- Original Message ----- From: "matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 6:55 AM Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting > Skip Tavakkolian wrote: > > >Has anyone done any deep thinking on this? I've just started > >looking into it. I have looked at Pegasus, but I need something a > >little more specialized. My own preference is for an awk-like environment > >but nothing definite yet. I want to process code fragments inside > >html docs, the same thing as jsp,asp,php, etc. > > > > as someone who uses PHP (and previously ASP) professionally - don't 8) > > RC and friends is enough > > if want awk then use awk 8) > > as for cookies, headers etc. you just need a quick script to chuck the > request into the environment (which is what PHP does) > > I did write a script to do it once > > http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&threadm=015d01c22ed3%24fcc596e0%246501a8c0%40KIKE&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dgroup:comp.os.plan9%2Bhttpd%2Bmatt%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26safe%3Doff%26selm%3D015d01c22ed3%2524fcc596e0%25246501a8c0%2540KIKE%26rnum%3D1 > > but I seem to have lost the code during a re-install (curses for putting > the magic directory outside of /usr ) > > All you really need to do is split the headers on the first colon : > ([^:]+): ?(.*) > > (after skipping past the first line) > and then pop the results into the environment > > echo $match_2 > /env/$match_1 > > when you run out of matches the rest of stdin is the body & you might > even be able to trust the Content-Length value > > > > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 21:36:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 21:36:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6516 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 21:36:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6512 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 21:36:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 21:36:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CF5A519AFD; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:36:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 68FC219AAF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:34:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h52BbjG4012266 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 07:37:45 -0400 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash In-Reply-To: <3ED953A8.2020806@ameritech.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 07:37:45 -0400 (EDT) > Still, the knowledge that collisions have a probability > of occuring is slightly unsettling. What are the statistics > regarding probability of collisions in the venti, anyways? I do believe that Rob's answer to this question at FAST last year was, ``The probability that all the atoms on one side of the universe will up and move to the other.'' Now, whether that's scientifically accurate or simply good for dramatic effect is another issue. :) I still laugh when I think about the seat shifting that occurred when he said (app), ``look, you just have to get used to not deleting anything. It's not a problem.'' Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 21:42:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 21:42:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6613 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 21:42:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6609 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 21:42:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 21:42:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6178C19B09; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:42:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5BA2B19A25 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:41:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <3EDB3B44.8030805@proweb.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 13:35:43 +0100 >>RC and friends is enough i did found that sufficient when i did a plan 9 httpd years ago, probably before asp let alone php had appeared. i used echo or cat and here documents quite a bit. i still think it seems better to generate the html within the (obviously) shared dynamic environment provided by the rc script rather than have lots of executable fragments embedded in html. it needn't be rc of course. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 21:43:13 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 21:43:13 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6628 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 21:43:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6623 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 21:43:13 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 21:43:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 05E5319ABF; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:43:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A478119AAF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:42:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <212965-4561>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:41:47 -0400 Message-ID: <003301c32904$543e8fa0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:41:45 +0200 say it once 'cryptographic hash'. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 21:49:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 21:49:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6685 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 21:49:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6681 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 21:49:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 21:49:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5C04419AEC; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:49:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 017F9199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:48:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52CmK5s028807 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:48:20 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52CmJl2012400 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:48:19 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id h52CmJ214750 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:48:19 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <200306021248.h52CmJ214750@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with version: MH 6.8.3 #20[UCI] To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 14:48:18 +0200 Something funny I noticed when using fdisk on a new 80Gb Maxtor hard disk (diamondmax plus 9). When I used fdisk on the new disk, it reported 9809 cylinders of 8355840 bytes. After making and saving a partition, quitting and restarting fdisk reports 39704 cylinders of 2064384 bytes. (type script included at the end) After zeroing (the start of) the disk, fdisk again reports the 9809 * 8355840. This surprised me. In case it matters, I'm doing this on an old Gigabyte motherboard (GA-686SGM), which had a bios that did not support big disks, which I flashed with a bios someone (unfortunately, not gigabyte) patched for big disks. Is this BIOS playing tricks on me? (How much) should this worry me? I did not (yet) repeat the experiment on a different motherboard. (planning to do that, but thought I'd mention it here first anyway) It looks like I'm doing this with an older kernel (Feb 18) but fdisk is recent. Something else I noticed: for this disk (80Gb maxtor diamondmax plus 9) the ctl capabilities line does not contain dma or dmactl; for the 80Gb maxtor diamondmax plus d740X dma/dmactl are present in the ctl capabilities. Confused, Axel. Just to be complete: term% disk/fdisk /dev/sdD0/data disk/fdisk: did not find master boot record term% disk/mbr -m /386/mbr /dev/sdD0/data term% disk/fdisk /dev/sdD0/data cylinder = 8355840 bytes empty 0 9809 (9809 cylinders, 76.33 GB) >>> a p1 start cylinder: 0 end [0..9809] 130 >>> t p1 new partition type [? for list]: FAT32 >>> p ' p1 0 130 (130 cylinders, 1.01 GB) FAT32 empty 130 9809 (9679 cylinders, 75.32 GB) >>> w >>> q term% disk/fdisk /dev/sdD0/data cylinder = 2064384 bytes p1 0 526 (526 cylinders, 1.01 GB) FAT32 empty 526 39704 (39178 cylinders, 75.32 GB) >>> From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 22:10:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 22:10:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6980 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 22:10:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6976 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 22:10:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 22:10:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4FE3219AAF; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 09:10:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A9A8119A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 09:08:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 27259 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 13:08:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO proweb.co.uk) (192.168.1.100) by juice.thebigchoice.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 13:08:51 -0000 Message-ID: <3EDB4C63.5080902@proweb.co.uk> From: matt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 14:08:51 +0100 Charles Forsyth wrote: >>>RC and friends is enough >>> >>> > >i did found that sufficient when i did >a plan 9 httpd years ago, probably before asp let alone php >had appeared. i used echo or cat and here documents quite a bit. >i still think it seems better to generate the html >within the (obviously) shared dynamic environment provided by >the rc script rather than have lots of executable fragments embedded in html. >it needn't be rc of course. > the "code fragments in the HTML" model is not very scalable in fact, content management becomes a total nightmare you have to move from "how is the HTML going to display the results of executing this code" to "what HTML should the code produce" It's like it starts you off at the wrong layer of abstraction From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 22:40:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 22:40:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7867 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 22:40:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7863 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 22:40:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 22:40:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E1C019B10; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 09:40:18 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 436A419ACA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 09:38:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: quux: guy steele's favorite word? From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fdisk: reported number/size of cylinders changes In-Reply-To: <200306021248.h52CmJ214750@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 09:38:42 -0400 It is true that most IDE's are chameleons, i.e., they can be told to display their geometry in different ways, i.e., with different numbers of cylinders, heads, and sectors. The identify command tells us the geometry. There is both a 'logical' and a 'actual' set of values in what is returned. We use the actual if its valid (a certain bit is set) but it may very well not be. Did you happen to get to plan 9 differently in the two instances? It could be that you're just seeing two different logical geometries of the same disk. In LBA mode, we don't use the logical geometries except to determine the number of disk blocks, so you should be OK in both cases (modulo the fact that one comes out to less sectors). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 22:52:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 22:52:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8142 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 22:52:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8138 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 22:52:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 22:52:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E635119991; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 09:52:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9DB8019991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 09:51:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: Charles Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting In-Reply-To: <3EDB4C63.5080902@proweb.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:51:18 +0100 i looked at the code, and the rule i used was simply that if the url for GET and POST corresponded to an executable file-- as gdb suggested not just an rc file, though i did use rc for many examples-- httpd forked the name space (having originally secured it) and environment, put some of the parsed data in the environment (could have served it up in files), optionally sent an HTTP reply header, and ran the program. if the executable file's suffix was .http, it was assumed to generate its own HTTP headers, otherwise httpd provided whatever was appropriate to the file's suffix. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 23:04:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 23:04:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8384 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 23:04:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8380 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 23:04:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 23:04:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F57D19B16; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 10:04:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F0EB919ACA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 10:03:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52E355s001811 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 16:03:05 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52E34l2003099 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 16:03:04 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id h52E34215452 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 16:03:04 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <200306021403.h52E34215452@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with version: MH 6.8.3 #20[UCI] To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fdisk: reported number/size of cylinders changes In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Jun 2003 09:38:42 -0400." References: From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 16:03:04 +0200 I booted plan 9 in the same way in both cases (kernel from flop, fs over the net). In /sys/src/libdisk/disk.c I found the following comment near the opendisk code, which explains the difference between opening a ``clean'' empty disk, and one already containing a partition table. However, I would have expected that reading (and using) the partition table on disk would give me back the number previously shown (and, written, I assume), by fdisk when I ran it first time. Axel. Comment found in /sys/src/libdisk/disk.c: * Discover the disk geometry by various sleazeful means. * * First, if there is a partition table in sector 0, * see if all the partitions have the same end head * and sector; if so, we'll assume that that's the * right count. * * If that fails, we'll try looking at the geometry that the ATA * driver supplied, if any, and translate that as a * BIOS might. * * If that too fails, which should only happen on a SCSI * disk with no currently defined partitions, we'll try * various common (h, s) pairs used by BIOSes when faking * the geometries. [maybe I should check that for the clean disk the second case is used, and not the third] > Did you happen to get to plan 9 differently in the two instances? > It could be that you're just seeing two different logical geometries > of the same disk. In LBA mode, we don't use the logical geometries > except to determine the number of disk blocks, so you should be OK > in both cases (modulo the fact that one comes out to less sectors). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 23:10:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 23:10:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8485 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 23:10:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8481 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 23:10:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 23:10:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A308319B18; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 10:10:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AD4F119B1B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 10:09:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9c1b80f583d8f15b118bf5ca32fa8223@plan9.bell-labs.com> quux: guy steele's favorite word? From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fdisk: reported number/size of cylinders changes In-Reply-To: <200306021403.h52E34215452@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 10:09:07 -0400 I'ld dump a bunch of prints in fdisk and see what it thinks its doing. At 835840 bytes/cylinder, the cylinders don't come out a multiple of 512 bytes which seems rather odd. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 23:14:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 23:14:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8544 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 23:14:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8540 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 23:14:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 23:14:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3AC4D19B1C; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 10:14:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6191619B1A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 10:13:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19Mpxn-0007Fg-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 02 Jun 2003 15:07:03 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Robin KAY Message-ID: <1054560528.52998.0@despina.uk.clara.net> Organization: www.gekkou.co.uk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , <20030529151809.29468.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Mp3 Resources Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:06:41 GMT Scott Schwartz wrote: > The simplest thing is to disallow non-list-member postings. > We can figure out what to do about the usenet gateway afterwards. Implement a way to join the list but not actually receive any mail from it. Accept postings from the NNTP gateway that come from list members. -- Wishing you good fortune, --Robin Kay-- (komadori) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 23:21:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 23:21:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8716 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 23:21:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8712 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 23:21:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 23:21:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E0D8019B1E; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 10:21:06 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EFA7819988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 10:20:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52EK95s002469 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 16:20:09 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52EK8l2007272 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 16:20:09 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id h52EK9C15609 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 16:20:09 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <200306021420.h52EK9C15609@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with version: MH 6.8.3 #20[UCI] To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fdisk: reported number/size of cylinders changes In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Jun 2003 10:09:07 -0400." <9c1b80f583d8f15b118bf5ca32fa8223@plan9.bell-labs.com> References: <9c1b80f583d8f15b118bf5ca32fa8223@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 16:20:08 +0200 When I looked at the fdisk source, I got the impression that it takes the disk geometry info from opendisk, so maybe also there interesting things happen (see the comment I posted in prev msg) I'll find some time (sometime next couple of days) and experiment a bit; when I find/know more, I'll post here. Thanks for listening! Axel. > I'ld dump a bunch of prints in fdisk and see what it thinks its > doing. At 835840 bytes/cylinder, the cylinders don't come out > a multiple of 512 bytes which seems rather odd. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 3 00:44:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 3 00:44:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9962 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2003 00:44:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9958 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2003 00:44:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2003 00:44:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 413BB19A53; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:44:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from minster.cs.york.ac.uk (minster.cs.york.ac.uk [144.32.40.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B14A19B0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:43:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pc095 ([144.32.41.96] ident=ianb) by minster.cs.york.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 19MrO6-0002Hf-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 02 Jun 2003 16:38:19 +0100 From: Ian Broster To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting Message-Id: <20030602163818.316ebbf5.spam@broster.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <3EDB4C63.5080902@proweb.co.uk> References: <3EDB4C63.5080902@proweb.co.uk> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.5claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanner: exiscan *19MrO6-0002Hf-00*NmYmr3T79o6* Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 16:38:18 +0100 > the "code fragments in the HTML" model is not very scalable > > in fact, content management becomes a total nightmare I've come to the conclusion that neither 'code in HTML' nor 'HTML in code' are very good! Neither are easy to read, quotes mess everything up and it's hard to debug. My thought is to try to raise the abstraction higher. Here's how I'd like to code a server generated page. int some_data[5][5]; /*eg*/ create_my data(some_data); ... { new_web_page(template); add(some_data, how_to_add_intgers); add(sometext, how_to_add_text); ... done(); /* composes the page and writes it out*/ } Note that the ordering is not 'linear'. It doesn't matter which order the add() calls come. the 'how_to_add_text' things (whatever they are?) describe how the thing is presented in the markup language. Perhaps this has overtones of a Tk-like interface. Perhaps it's more object oriented. One day, I'd like to try to find the time to investigate. Maybe something already exists? ian From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 3 01:13:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 3 01:13:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10325 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2003 01:13:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10321 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2003 01:13:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2003 01:13:50 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E48DE19AFB; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 12:13:24 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C5DFF19A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 12:12:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 57713 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 16:12:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO proweb.co.uk) (192.168.1.100) by juice.thebigchoice.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 16:12:50 -0000 Message-ID: <3EDB7782.9020708@proweb.co.uk> From: matt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting References: <3EDB4C63.5080902@proweb.co.uk> <20030602163818.316ebbf5.spam@broster.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <20030602163818.316ebbf5.spam@broster.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 17:12:50 +0100 > > >My thought is to try to raise the abstraction higher. >Here's how I'd like to code a server generated page. > >int some_data[5][5]; /*eg*/ >create_my data(some_data); >... >{ > new_web_page(template); > add(some_data, how_to_add_intgers); > add(sometext, how_to_add_text); > ... > done(); /* composes the page and writes it out*/ >} > > that's kind of how I do it add_head_item(''); $this->add_head_item(''); $this->add_h1('useful links'); $this->add_anchor('plan 9 homepage', array('href'=>'http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9', 'target'=>'_blank'); echo $this->get(); ?> and out pops a valid, well formatted html document I've added a few things to it over that last 6 months such that this site http://www.bigchoicemobilephones.com took about a week to build from scratch the body content sits in a directory tree outside of the webspace & the php pulls it all together From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 3 01:16:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 3 01:16:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10373 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2003 01:16:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10369 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2003 01:16:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2003 01:16:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C1F0819B1A; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 12:16:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from minster.cs.york.ac.uk (minster.cs.york.ac.uk [144.32.40.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0A3DE19A6D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 12:15:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pc095 ([144.32.41.96] ident=ianb) by minster.cs.york.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 19Mrxy-0003qO-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 02 Jun 2003 17:15:22 +0100 From: spam@broster.co.uk To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting Message-Id: <20030602171520.2838d456.spam@broster.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <20030602163818.316ebbf5.spam@broster.co.uk> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.5claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanner: exiscan *19Mrxy-0003qO-00*0HagY7uX5hY* Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 17:15:20 +0100 > Have you seen tclhtppd? It's on sourceforge. Have now. Thanks. Seems to be quite well thought out, although it is basically 'code in HTML', the separation of a template file from the code seems sensible. ian From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 3 01:23:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 3 01:23:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10404 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2003 01:23:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10400 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2003 01:23:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2003 01:23:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 868E819B2D; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 12:23:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id AC9A919B2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 12:22:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 59250 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 16:22:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO proweb.co.uk) (192.168.1.100) by juice.thebigchoice.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 16:22:07 -0000 Message-ID: <3EDB79AF.7020104@proweb.co.uk> From: matt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting References: <3EDB3B44.8030805@proweb.co.uk> <13b301c32900$56569700$644cb2cc@kds> In-Reply-To: <13b301c32900$56569700$644cb2cc@kds> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 17:22:07 +0100 David Butler wrote: >I did a lot of work in the http area on Plan 9, back on >version 2 of the system. I took the approach that anything >is executable (compiled) instead of scripting. It was fast >and very flexible. Perhaps I can see what it takes to get >it on version 4 and make it available... > >David > my only beef with ip/httpd is that it maps URIs to filenames (not that it keeps me awake at night) I've got over 500,000 URIs on one of my sites and, as such, mapping them, even via namespaces would be the wrong approach the world is an easier place if http://www.thebigchoice.com/Graduate_Jobs/IT_and_Management_Systems/York is the URI instead of http://www.thebigchoice.com/magic/show_jobs?section=Graduate_Jobs&job_section=IT_and_Management_Systems&area=York esp. when you factor in relative URIs in the resulting HTML m From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 3 01:39:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 3 01:39:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10595 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2003 01:39:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10591 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2003 01:39:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2003 01:39:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D3E119A80; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 12:39:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cleese.nas.com (cleese.nas.com [198.182.207.3]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6CE2019B0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 12:38:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (cleese.nas.com [198.182.207.3]) by cleese.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D00613642F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 09:38:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Jack Johnson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Geforce TI4200 working In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 09:38:16 -0700 (PDT) On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > On Mon, 2 Jun 2003 okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote: > > However, I have much curiousity why two versions of nvidia drivers > > cannot be merged. Same here, especially now that I see this driver appears to also have 2Go support. -Jack From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 3 02:56:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 3 02:56:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11653 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2003 02:56:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11649 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2003 02:56:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2003 02:56:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1CC9B19A87; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 13:56:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from magnum.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 52A6A19A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 13:55:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from robin.cooper.edu by magnum.cooper.edu with SMTP id AA26156 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>); Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:00:25 -0400 Received: from localhost by robin.cooper.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA23347; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 13:55:49 -0400 From: Joel Salomon To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting In-Reply-To: <20030602163818.316ebbf5.spam@broster.co.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 13:55:49 -0400 (EDT) On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Ian Broster wrote: > > Perhaps this has overtones of a Tk-like interface. > Perhaps it's more object oriented. One > day, I'd like to try to find the time to investigate. > Maybe something already exists? > > ian > This feels similar to XML+DOM, which may be too buzzword-compliant for plan9, but was invented for this problem domain. --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 3 09:33:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 3 09:33:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17905 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2003 09:33:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17901 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2003 09:33:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2003 09:33:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A189F19A06; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 20:33:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from n2now2844.com (unknown [64.110.8.7]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4C48E19A06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 20:32:16 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dr.Derrick Nyemegoh" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6900 DM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <20030603003216.4C48E19A06@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] With Utmost Sincerity Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: derricknyemegoh@etoast.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 02:32:19 +0200 DR DERRICK NYEMEGOH=2C BRANCH MANAGER=2C UNITED BANK FOR AFRICA PLC ILUPEJU BRANCH LAGOS NIGERIA TELEPHONE=3A 234-1-776 0962 FAX=3A 234-1-759-4725 ATTN=3A PRESIDENT=2FC=2EE=2EO I am pleased to get across to you for a very urgent and profitable business proposal=2C though I don't know you neither have I seen you before but my confidence was reposed on you when the Chief Executive of Lagos State chamber of Commerce and Industry handed me your contact for a confidential business=2E I am the manager of United Bank for Africa Plc =28UBA=29=2C Ilupeju branch=2C Lagos Nigeria=2E The intended business is thus=3B We had a customer=2C a Foreigner =28a Turkish=29 resident in Nigeria=2C he was a Contractor with one of the Government Parastatals=2EHe has in his Account in my branch the sum of US 38=2E6 Million =28Thirty Eight Million=2C Six Hundred Thousand U=2ES=2E Dollars=29=2E Unfortunately=2C the man died four years ago until today non-of his next of kin has come forward to claim the money=2E Having noticed this=2C I in collaboration with two other top Officials of the bank have covered up the account all this while=2E Now we want you =28being a foreigner=29 to be fronted as one of his next of kin and forward your account and other relevant documents to be advised to you by us to attest to the Claim=2E We will use our positions to get all internal documentations to back up the claims =2EThe whole procedures will last only five working days to get the fund retrieved successfully without trace even now or in future=2E Your response is only what we are waiting for as we have arranged all necessary things=2E As soon as this message comes to you kindly get back to me indicating your interest=2C then I will furnish you with the whole procedures to ensure that the deal is successfully concluded=2E For your assistance we have agreed to give you twenty five percent =2825%=29 of the Total sum at the end of the transaction while 65% would be for my colleagues and I and the remaining 10% would be for any form of expenses that may be incurred during the course of the transaction which would be given to us when the money is transferred into your account before splitting the balance on the agreed percentage of 65% to 25%=2E I await your earliest response=2E Thanks=2C Yours Sincerely=2C DR DERRICK NYEMEGOH=2E From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 3 10:58:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 3 10:58:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21794 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2003 10:58:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21790 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2003 10:58:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2003 10:58:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B1C2C19A10; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 21:58:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A818D19995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 21:57:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <59c5b9bb02c1cdd213030d3d9458d521@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" From: rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fdisk: reported number/size of cylinders changes In-Reply-To: <200306021403.h52E34215452@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 21:57:50 -0400 Libdisk/disk.c is where you want to look. Fdisk doesn't know anything about guessing geometries. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 3 12:30:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 3 12:30:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25572 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2003 12:30:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25567 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2003 12:30:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2003 12:30:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B7DBE199BE; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 23:30:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from thefrayedknot.armory.com (thefrayedknot.armory.com [192.122.209.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2BB9A199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 23:29:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 2741 invoked by uid 1000); 3 Jun 2003 03:29:23 -0000 From: Andrew To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20030603032923.GA2474@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: [9fans] fossil server crashing Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 20:29:23 -0700 As the subject says, my fossil server keeps locking up. It is most easy to duplicate by running the cpu command from a terminal. The disk activity light on the main hard drive lights up, and stays lit. If i run cpu from a drawterm connected to the auth server, to connect to the fossil server, i get the same results but the cryptic message "msgWrite: delay r Rflush tag 7" when i hit delete on the window. The 7 is actually a number from somewhere around 3 to usually 40 Everything, including the fossil server mounts their root off the fossil drive, which happens to be a scsi on a sd53xxx controller. Any ideas? this is mostly a recent thing since i pulled from sources From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 3 12:42:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 3 12:42:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25990 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2003 12:42:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25986 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2003 12:42:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2003 12:42:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 31BD919A33; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 23:42:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 705A419A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 23:41:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Jun 2 23:41:16 EDT 2003 Received: from 205.170.1.68 ([205.170.1.68]) by plan9; Mon Jun 2 23:41:13 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <93195e2ce4c0057b827857dd95f78d10@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fossil server crashing In-Reply-To: <20030603032923.GA2474@thefrayedknot.armory.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 23:41:13 -0400 your subject says fossil is crashing. your text says fossil is hanging. the message about Rflush is harmless. it's just telling you that the flush implementation actually works. can you hear disk activity? perhaps there's a problem with the disk driver. fossil hasn't changed in months. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 3 12:46:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 3 12:46:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26130 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2003 12:46:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26126 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2003 12:46:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2003 12:46:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3862519A78; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 23:46:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from thefrayedknot.armory.com (thefrayedknot.armory.com [192.122.209.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id ED3EC199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 23:45:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 2915 invoked by uid 1000); 3 Jun 2003 03:45:41 -0000 From: Andrew To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fossil server crashing Message-ID: <20030603034541.GA2885@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030603032923.GA2474@thefrayedknot.armory.com> <93195e2ce4c0057b827857dd95f78d10@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <93195e2ce4c0057b827857dd95f78d10@plan9.bell-labs.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 20:45:41 -0700 On Mon, Jun 02, 2003 at 11:41:13PM -0400, Russ Cox wrote: > your subject says fossil is crashing. > your text says fossil is hanging. sorry, i was in a hurry, i have a broader definition of crashing...anyways > > the message about Rflush is harmless. > it's just telling you that the flush > implementation actually works. i thought anything would be helpful > > can you hear disk activity? > perhaps there's a problem with > the disk driver. the light comes on, thats it, i cant _hear_ any activity im trying to swap over to a nice simple ide drive, but its hard when I cant keep the fossil server up for more than a few minutes > > fossil hasn't changed in months. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 3 17:02:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 3 17:02:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4608 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2003 17:02:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4604 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2003 17:02:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2003 17:02:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A2F2C19A28; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 04:02:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 71E1F199EC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 04:01:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fossil server crashing From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <20030603032923.GA2474@thefrayedknot.armory.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-xjksaivodkefkxqiphodonzszd" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 10:01:46 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-xjksaivodkefkxqiphodonzszd Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Do you have your kernel sources uptodate wrt sources? Long ago there was a problem with the scheduler that allowed fossil to eat the cpu (because of a sleep(0) IIRC). I also run a fossil updated from sources and it runs just fine. Have you double checked diff'ing w/ sources? (I'd check fossil and kernel). Can you try using a fossil that runs off a different disk? (Or perhaps using a kfs on the disk and starting a fossil running from a file), just to see if it's a sd thing (I'm using ide). --upas-xjksaivodkefkxqiphodonzszd Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Tue Jun 3 05:30:23 MDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B7DBE199BE; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 23:30:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from thefrayedknot.armory.com (thefrayedknot.armory.com [192.122.209.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2BB9A199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 23:29:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 2741 invoked by uid 1000); 3 Jun 2003 03:29:23 -0000 From: Andrew To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20030603032923.GA2474@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: [9fans] fossil server crashing Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 20:29:23 -0700 As the subject says, my fossil server keeps locking up. It is most easy to duplicate by running the cpu command from a terminal. The disk activity light on the main hard drive lights up, and stays lit. If i run cpu from a drawterm connected to the auth server, to connect to the fossil server, i get the same results but the cryptic message "msgWrite: delay r Rflush tag 7" when i hit delete on the window. The 7 is actually a number from somewhere around 3 to usually 40 Everything, including the fossil server mounts their root off the fossil drive, which happens to be a scsi on a sd53xxx controller. Any ideas? this is mostly a recent thing since i pulled from sources --upas-xjksaivodkefkxqiphodonzszd-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 3 18:59:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 3 18:59:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8681 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2003 18:59:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8677 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2003 18:59:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2003 18:59:39 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5090019A60; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 05:59:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9AC6319995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 05:58:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19N8Kn-0005Ry-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 10:44:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Robby Message-ID: <5YZCa.5429$iO3.35296367@news-text.cableinet.net> Organization: Unorganised Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <3EDB4C63.5080902@proweb.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:42:20 GMT In article <20030602163818.316ebbf5.spam@broster.co.uk>, spam@broster.co.uk (Ian Broster) writes: >> the "code fragments in the HTML" model is not very scalable >> >> in fact, content management becomes a total nightmare > > I've come to the conclusion that neither 'code in HTML' nor 'HTML > in code' are very good! Neither are easy to read, quotes mess > everything up and it's hard to debug. > > My thought is to try to raise the abstraction higher. > Here's how I'd like to code a server generated page. > > int some_data[5][5]; /*eg*/ > create_my data(some_data); > ... > { > new_web_page(template); > add(some_data, how_to_add_intgers); > add(sometext, how_to_add_text); > ... > done(); /* composes the page and writes it out*/ > } > > > Note that the ordering is not 'linear'. It doesn't matter which > order the add() calls come. the 'how_to_add_text' things > (whatever they are?) describe how the thing is presented in > the markup language. > > Perhaps this has overtones of a Tk-like interface. > Perhaps it's more object oriented. One > day, I'd like to try to find the time to investigate. > Maybe something already exists? > > ian This kind of reminds me of a posting to comp.compilers, which I love to whip out whenever somebody wants to understand function pointers or variable arguments. I don't know if this "just" works in plan9, though. I haven't had the need to try something like this out yet. Robby > From telnet@wagner.Princeton.EDU.composers Wed Jul 8 06:40:19 1998 > Newsgroups: comp.compilers > Subject: Re: writing an assembler! > Date: 8 Jul 1998 01:40:01 -0400 > Organization: Chemistry Department, Princeton University > Message-ID: <98-07-062@comp.compilers> > Keywords: macros, design > Lines: 70 > In article <98-07-005@comp.compilers>, "Dr Richard A. O'Keefe" writes: > > These days, my language of choice for doing this would be Lisp or Ada > > (sensible macros are about *trees*, not strings!) but you can > > certainly use C as an assembler quite effectively. > > [It's a disgusting hack, but it's a great disgusting hack. -John] > > You can get away with tree-like behavior in C if you use varargs stuff. > I'll risk my reputation (:-)) by admitting to an even more disgusting hack: > --- > void new_section(char *title, char *img_name, int h, int w) { > emit(html_list, > html_p, > html_hr, > html_br, > html_region, "center", > html_region, "h1", > html_text, title, > html_tag, "img", > html_param, "src", html_string, fname, > html_param, "height", html_text, h, > html_param, "width", html_text, w, > 0, > 0); > } > --- > typedef void (*html_func)(va_list *); > > void emit(html_func first, ...) { > va_list ap; > > va_start(ap, first); > (*first)(&ap); > va_end(ap); > } > > void html_list(va_list *ap) { > html_func f; > > while (1) { > f = va_arg(ap, html_func); > if (f == 0) break; > > (*f)(ap); > } > } > > [etc] > --- > > A disgusting hack? Absolutely. > > But it's also an order of magnitude more powerful than any other > dynamic HTML tool I've worked with, and it only took me an hour or so > to implement. > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Tim Hollebeek > email: tim@wfn-shop.princeton.edu > URL: http://wfn-shop.princeton.edu/~tim > > [Wow, that's loathsome. I really like it. -John] From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 3 21:52:53 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 3 21:52:53 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12673 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2003 21:52:52 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12669 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2003 21:52:51 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2003 21:52:51 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 26AEE19A0B; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 08:52:38 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from wilbur.25thandClement.com (wilbur.25thandclement.com [64.62.167.198]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1091119A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 08:51:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wilbur.25thandClement.com (william@localhost [IPv6:::1]) by wilbur.25thandClement.com (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h53CoCah017695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 05:50:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from william@localhost) by wilbur.25thandClement.com (8.12.7/8.12.6/Submit) id h53CoCnr024029 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 05:50:12 -0700 (PDT) From: William Ahern To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting Message-ID: <20030603125012.GA824@wilbur.25thandClement.com> References: <3EDB4C63.5080902@proweb.co.uk> <5YZCa.5429$iO3.35296367@news-text.cableinet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5YZCa.5429$iO3.35296367@news-text.cableinet.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 05:50:12 -0700 From telnet@wagner.Princeton.EDU.composers Wed Jul 8 06:40:19 1998 Newsgroups: comp.compilers > You can get away with tree-like behavior in C if you use varargs stuff. > I'll risk my reputation (:-)) by admitting to an even more disgusting hack: > --- > void new_section(char *title, char *img_name, int h, int w) { > emit(html_list, > html_p, > html_hr, > html_br, > html_region, "center", > html_region, "h1", > html_text, title, > html_tag, "img", > html_param, "src", html_string, fname, > html_param, "height", html_text, h, > html_param, "width", html_text, w, > 0, > 0); > } > > A disgusting hack? Absolutely. > > But it's also an order of magnitude more powerful than any other > dynamic HTML tool I've worked with, and it only took me an hour or so > to implement. > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- this is very similar to XSL: trees, nodes, concept of tags built into language. c/o xsltproc from libxml2 for an XSLT processor, and zvon.org for really good tutorials. the beauty of XSL is that you can cleanly separate your content production logic from your presentation logic. - Bill From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 4 01:04:55 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 4 01:04:55 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16460 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2003 01:04:54 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16456 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2003 01:04:54 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 01:04:54 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A27C719A8F; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 12:04:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 84D2A19A04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:56:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5d8682ecb075633ec59029eb6fdbc3a3@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Mp3 Resources From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <01f201c326bd$674bc840$e3944251@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 16:59:48 +0100 > > deep water soloing? > did you _read_ the script? hit send before i realised the link pertained to the acronym... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 4 03:46:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 4 03:46:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18377 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2003 03:46:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18373 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2003 03:46:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 03:46:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EC5EF19A05; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 14:46:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 61129199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 14:45:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h53IgmNx019471 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 12:42:48 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h53Igmel019467 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 12:42:48 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] D-Link 538 support (RTL8139 chipset) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 12:42:48 -0600 (MDT) this adds VIDs and DIDs for two D-Link ethernet cards, based on the Realtek 8139 chipset. the cards are not on-board (we bought them for a couple of boards that have unsupported gigabit cards to use until we write a driver) and are reasonably cheap ($16 CAD)... fyi :) andrey cpu% diff ether8139.c /sys/src/9/pc/ether8139.c 639,640d638 < { "dfe-538tx", (0x1300<<16)|0x1186, }, /* D-Link DFE-538TX */ < { "dfe-560txd", (0x1340<<16)|0x1186, }, /* D-Link DFE-560TXD */ cpu% From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 4 06:52:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 4 06:52:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20706 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2003 06:52:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20702 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2003 06:52:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 06:52:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 00912199EC; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 17:51:31 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7864519995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 17:47:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] D-Link 538 support (RTL8139 chipset) From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-eodgbzqlrhfyowwjxzenzrlakg" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 14:47:38 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-eodgbzqlrhfyowwjxzenzrlakg Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [Andrey, I tried to mail this to you, but got 554 fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca ESMTP not accepting messages] What are the unsupported gigabit cards and which ethernet chip(s) do they use? --upas-eodgbzqlrhfyowwjxzenzrlakg Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from collyer.net ([10.9.0.3]) by collyer.net; Tue Jun 3 11:46:09 PDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by collyer.net; Tue Jun 3 11:46:08 PDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E0EF5199EC; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 14:46:05 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 61129199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 14:45:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h53IgmNx019471 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 12:42:48 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h53Igmel019467 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 12:42:48 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] D-Link 538 support (RTL8139 chipset) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 12:42:48 -0600 (MDT) this adds VIDs and DIDs for two D-Link ethernet cards, based on the Realtek 8139 chipset. the cards are not on-board (we bought them for a couple of boards that have unsupported gigabit cards to use until we write a driver) and are reasonably cheap ($16 CAD)... fyi :) andrey cpu% diff ether8139.c /sys/src/9/pc/ether8139.c 639,640d638 < { "dfe-538tx", (0x1300<<16)|0x1186, }, /* D-Link DFE-538TX */ < { "dfe-560txd", (0x1340<<16)|0x1186, }, /* D-Link DFE-560TXD */ cpu% --upas-eodgbzqlrhfyowwjxzenzrlakg-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 4 10:47:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 4 10:47:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27906 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2003 10:47:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27902 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2003 10:47:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 10:47:37 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2B3C919A6D; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 21:47:31 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6355819A6E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 21:43:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] horizontal scroll for acme? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:44:47 +0900 If we consider an acme application which has horizontal long list, such as tupples in database, we now has problem. Of course, I know it can be done for another windowing application such as marsv. However, that kind of application is mainly for text based, and I think it should be done on acme. Did anyone work on this aspect? Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 4 12:54:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 4 12:54:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1079 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2003 12:54:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1073 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2003 12:54:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 12:54:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D38AF19980; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 23:54:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B92E6199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 23:53:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h543oiNx020032 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 21:50:44 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h543ohgs020028 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 21:50:43 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] D-Link 538 support (RTL8139 chipset) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 21:50:43 -0600 (MDT) On Tue, 3 Jun 2003, Geoff Collyer wrote: > [Andrey, I tried to mail this to you, but got > 554 fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca ESMTP not accepting messages] > > What are the unsupported gigabit cards and which ethernet chip(s) do > they use? > 3C940 (also known as 3C2000) -- vid 10b7 (3Com), did 1700; it came on board of an asus 8C400 motherboard. asus' web site has a driver for linux (thanx north_ :) which i haven't had the time -- i just set up the machine with the d-link today and didn't have time to look at what could be supported off the bat. oh, yeah -- they're putting a new firewall at the university. no internet all morning, they probably screwed up the mail server too... :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 4 13:22:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 4 13:22:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2454 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2003 13:22:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2450 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2003 13:22:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 13:22:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1D2A8199E8; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 00:22:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BBB9F19A2D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 00:21:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h544LWIs009458 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 22:21:32 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h544LWj6013353 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 22:21:32 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] some #s Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 22:21:32 -0600 (MDT) The geode cluster Andrey mentioned has a clone that etherboots linux and comes up running bproc etc. (see clustermatic.org for info on this). The two clusters are identical in every way. Time from power-on to full cluster ready to roll (i.e ready for bproc equivalent of 'cpu'): 10 seconds Some timing for same hardware with 9load/plan 9: 0->10 seconds: 9load is up and has loaded the plan 9 kernel over ether 10-20 seconds: no real output from plan 9 20-30 seconds (or so): until I get the 'boot from [il]' prompt Obviously we'll try to speed this up just a bit, but still, it's not too terrible. I need to get it to skip the prompt step but that doesn't seem like a big deal (there is no console, really, on these machines, so a prompt is rather unimportant, esp. given there is only one choice) Overall there's lots more procs needed to make the plan 9 nodes work as cluster nodes than the Linux bproc stuff -- about a factor of 5. bproc does remote exec somewhat faster, I'm working on the #s there too. But plan 9 does do some thing better than bproc. So it's a bit of a wash in most ways. Nevertheless I'm going to see what else I can eliminate. Anyway, this is just FYI, I'm hoping to get good ideas from people at usenix on reducing some overheads on this system. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 4 13:48:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 4 13:48:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3417 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2003 13:48:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3413 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2003 13:48:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 13:48:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 57DE419A72; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 00:48:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 986D9199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 00:47:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h544j3Nx020129 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 22:45:03 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h544j3Y3020125 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 22:45:03 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] some #s In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 22:45:03 -0600 (MDT) On Tue, 3 Jun 2003, ron minnich wrote: > 0->10 seconds: 9load is up and has loaded the plan 9 kernel over ether > 10-20 seconds: no real output from plan 9 > 20-30 seconds (or so): until I get the 'boot from [il]' prompt > as far as i remember (it was a year ago, but should still hold) the problem with booting speed came from the fact that you have no plan9.ini to feed 9load with. when it doesn't know what to boot it probes everything (and sometimes probes it anyways -- just to be able to prompt you with choices).. i just tried this -- a cpuserver under vmware boots to prompt in 17 seconds with me hitting enter at the prompt and 27 seconds when the prompt timeouts. that's with a local harddrive... only my theory, though. i'd be happy to hear other opinions :) andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 4 16:07:03 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 4 16:07:03 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9775 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2003 16:06:52 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9771 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2003 16:06:52 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 16:06:52 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2AF9719A73; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 03:06:38 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ACD4919A2A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 03:04:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] horizontal scroll for acme? From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 07:58:26 +0100 i'd try to find another scheme. in my experience, and i'm fairly sure i'm not the only one, having two scrollbars hardly ever works sensibly in practice: you rarely want to move in just one dimension at once, so you end up having to flit between them, typically losing context whilst doing so. it's particularly bad for program text and web pages. indeed, i'd say it's a good example of an attempt to appear to solve a problem without actually doing so. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 4 16:31:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 4 16:31:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10954 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2003 16:31:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10950 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2003 16:31:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 16:31:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0CA5519A81; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 03:31:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3470D199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 03:30:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <217555-12330>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 03:30:16 -0400 Message-ID: <002901c32a6b$249ad520$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] horizontal scroll for acme? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 09:30:14 +0200 > i'd try to find another scheme. i'm pretty sure rob said at one point that he wasn't really convinced by acme's 'rolodex' approach to window access. i like a lot of the ideas in acme, but i just can't use it. the two scroll bar idea is just a disaster. perhaps being able to 'pan and scan' [like many GPS receivers support] would eliminate the need for such a hideous kludge. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 4 16:46:02 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 4 16:46:02 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11580 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2003 16:45:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11576 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2003 16:45:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 16:45:50 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 548A319A8A; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 03:45:37 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 01B8019A8C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 03:44:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <30278959ab62af842970c5f0411e7a63@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] horizontal scroll for acme? From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:46:53 +0900 Hi, Charles, > you end up having to flit between them, typically losing context > whilst doing so. I agree with this point. Yes, it's hard to image the whole sentence when we scrolled up the part of the whole. >it's particularly bad for program text and web > pages. indeed, i'd say it's a good example of an attempt to appear to > solve a problem without actually doing so. Yes, I thought once to display the querried result in a vertical dorection where many attributes are aligned vertical, and instances are in horizontal. This may be good if we could have a possibillity to exchange the vertical and horizontal axis on a fly. Is this an better idea? kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 4 16:48:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 4 16:48:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11736 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2003 16:48:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11732 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2003 16:48:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 16:48:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A65DA19A97; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 03:48:17 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1040019A8B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 03:47:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <388a995887eed9ca31c6d1bfc1b71a5b@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] horizontal scroll for acme? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <002901c32a6b$249ad520$e3944251@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:49:33 +0900 > by acme's 'rolodex' approach to window access. i like a lot of What means 'rolodex'? My dictinary has no this word... Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 4 16:57:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 4 16:57:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12263 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2003 16:57:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12259 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2003 16:57:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 16:57:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 562DE19AA3; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 03:57:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2B98219A8D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 03:56:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] horizontal scroll for acme? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <30278959ab62af842970c5f0411e7a63@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:58:13 +0900 > This may be good if we could have a possibillity to exchange the vertical > and horizontal axis on a fly. Is this an better idea? I meant to flipt the following tupple's list |1111|2222|3333|4444|5555|6666|7777| <--- tupple1 |2222|3333|4444|5555|6666|7777|8888| <--- tupple2 |3333|4444|5555|6666|7777|8888|9999| <--- tupple3 into t1 t2 t3 |1111|2222|3333| |2222|3333|4444| |3333|4444|5555| |4444|5555|6666| |5555|6666|7777| |6666|7777|8888| |7777|8888|9999| on a fly. kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 4 17:05:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 4 17:05:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12635 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2003 17:05:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12631 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2003 17:05:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 17:05:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D603919A6F; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 04:05:17 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8BF9E19A92 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 04:04:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557114-27704>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 04:04:47 -0400 Message-ID: <005201c32a6f$f614ca80$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <388a995887eed9ca31c6d1bfc1b71a5b@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> Subject: Re: [9fans] horizontal scroll for acme? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:04:44 +0200 > What means 'rolodex'? http://www.eldonoffice.com/rolodex From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 4 18:05:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 4 18:05:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14745 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2003 18:05:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14741 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2003 18:05:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 18:05:44 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9264A199E4; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 05:05:37 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8E2C2199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 05:03:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] horizontal scroll for acme? From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <005201c32a6f$f614ca80$e3944251@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-olqyndsgsavjzbsxcewlfnrypi" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:06:07 +0900 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-olqyndsgsavjzbsxcewlfnrypi Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks, boyd. Aaa, acme resembles really 'rolodex'. Kenji --upas-olqyndsgsavjzbsxcewlfnrypi Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp ([192.168.1.3]) by diabase; Wed Jun 4 17:07:31 JST 2003 Received: from elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.103.2]) by granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h548J5Ks025208 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 17:19:05 +0900 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (8.9.3p2/3.7W-03041814) with ESMTP id RAA05360 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 17:05:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D603919A6F; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 04:05:17 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8BF9E19A92 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 04:04:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557114-27704>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 04:04:47 -0400 Message-ID: <005201c32a6f$f614ca80$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <388a995887eed9ca31c6d1bfc1b71a5b@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> Subject: Re: [9fans] horizontal scroll for acme? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:04:44 +0200 > What means 'rolodex'? http://www.eldonoffice.com/rolodex --upas-olqyndsgsavjzbsxcewlfnrypi-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 4 20:00:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 4 20:00:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18141 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2003 20:00:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18137 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2003 20:00:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 20:00:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E1A4C19AA0; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 06:59:31 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from minster.cs.york.ac.uk (minster.cs.york.ac.uk [144.32.40.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A18731998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 06:56:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pc095 ([144.32.41.96] ident=ianb) by minster.cs.york.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 19NVrQ-0001R9-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 04 Jun 2003 11:51:16 +0100 From: spam@broster.co.uk To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] horizontal scroll for acme? Message-Id: <20030604115117.008847a7.spam@broster.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.5claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanner: exiscan *19NVrQ-0001R9-00*umbBLbMWxuo* Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 11:51:17 +0100 > If we consider an acme application which has horizontal long > list, such as tupples in database, we now has problem. It's also possible to edit many formats of bit-map graphics in Acme, but I prefer to use a different tool. Perhaps a database rather than a text editor is the best way to edit large tuples, even if the representation is ASCII based? On the other hand, I understand the problem, and I wondered if an Acme tool is possible that handles columated data, allowing navigation and selecting of rows? (Is this a minimal spreadsheet program?) I decided in the end that the data should be handled by other tools and \include'd into the document I was writing. ian From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 4 20:24:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 4 20:24:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18813 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2003 20:24:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18809 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2003 20:24:51 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 20:24:51 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F268B19AAB; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 07:24:37 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA96119A94 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 07:23:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] some #s From: C H Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 12:27:01 +0100 i suppose it's nice when booting is fast during development or on a mobile device, and it's always good to avoid wasting time (eg, by probing nonexistent drives) but in a production grid environment you won't be rebooting that often will you? just curious, really. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 4 23:33:02 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 4 23:33:02 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23068 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2003 23:32:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23064 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2003 23:32:51 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 23:32:51 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6AC8419A7B; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:32:37 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7808519A7B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:31:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h54EVVqj006990 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:31:31 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h54EVVj6027992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:31:31 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] some #s In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:31:31 -0600 (MDT) On Tue, 3 Jun 2003, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > > 0->10 seconds: 9load is up and has loaded the plan 9 kernel over ether > > 10-20 seconds: no real output from plan 9 > > 20-30 seconds (or so): until I get the 'boot from [il]' prompt > > > > as far as i remember (it was a year ago, but should still hold) the problem > with booting speed came from the fact that you have no plan9.ini to feed > 9load with. when it doesn't know what to boot it probes everything (and > sometimes probes it anyways -- just to be able to prompt you with choices).. I already commented out that table (I forget the name) in 9load such that it only probes ether. see you at usenix, we'll make it faster there :-) ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 4 23:40:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 4 23:40:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23177 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2003 23:40:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23173 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2003 23:40:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 23:40:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3CE7219A95; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:40:18 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A9EC819A6A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:39:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h54EdYqj010815 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:39:34 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h54EdXj6028305 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:39:33 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] some #s In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:39:34 -0600 (MDT) On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, C H Forsyth wrote: > i suppose it's nice when booting is fast during development or on a > mobile device, and it's always good to avoid wasting time (eg, by > probing nonexistent drives) but in a production grid environment you > won't be rebooting that often will you? depends on the "grid" (grid being a very new term for an idea that is at least 25 years old -- see RSEXEC on the early Arpanet on TOPS-10). Yes, in many cases, CPU servers should reboot after each job, in many environments -- not just US Gov't either, industry people can be quite paranoid. So it matters. In other cases, e.g. SETI@home, I guess rebooting your windows box every time it stops would be bad :-) ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 00:43:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 00:43:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24245 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 00:43:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24241 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 00:43:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 00:43:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 28BEF19AA2; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 11:43:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 00A3F19A40 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 11:42:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h54FdPNx021241 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 09:39:25 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h54FdPFk021237 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 09:39:25 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] some #s In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 09:39:25 -0600 (MDT) On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, ron minnich wrote: > Yes, in many cases, CPU servers should reboot after each job, in many > environments > in plan9 you could say that it suffices to get rid of the namespace of the job that had just completed :) there's another point that should be made (not that there's much interest in this discussion, but anyway): 9load does a very good job at what it's supposed to do. trying to accomplish a similar configuration under different operating systems is a much bigger PITA than it is with 9load+plan9.ini... A testament to that must be the amount of change to the source code that was required to fit 9load into the booting model that Ron demanded -- it's minimal at best :) andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 01:15:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 01:15:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24776 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 01:15:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24772 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 01:15:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 01:15:40 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 126EE19A8D; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 12:15:32 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E248019AB1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 12:11:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h54G8gNx021324 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:08:42 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h54G8giM021320 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:08:42 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] D-Link 538 support (RTL8139 chipset) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:08:42 -0600 (MDT) On Tue, 3 Jun 2003, Geoff Collyer wrote: > What are the unsupported gigabit cards and which ethernet chip(s) do > they use? more information on that (now that i had time to read through) -- the chipset is the SysKonnect XMAC II/GEnesis one (www.syskonnect.de).. the linux driver has support for SK-98xx cards (from the above web page), 3com's 3c940, Cnet's gigacard, D-Link and Linksis' "gigabit network adapter". the *bsd drivers list support for SK-984* bsd's driver points to this document: http://people.freebsd.org/~wpaul/SysKonnect/xmacii_datasheet_rev_c_9-29.pdf there must be something on the syskonnect site too, but i haven't found it yet. so, do you have anything for those already, or do you mind me starting one? if you do i'd gladly help with debugging :) andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 01:50:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 01:50:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25286 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 01:50:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25282 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 01:50:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 01:50:36 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 748A019A9D; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 12:49:44 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DD89B19ABD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 12:46:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] some #s In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 12:46:17 -0400 On Wed Jun 4 00:22:20 EDT 2003, rminnich@lanl.gov wrote: > ... > Some timing for same hardware with 9load/plan 9: > > 0->10 seconds: 9load is up and has loaded the plan 9 kernel over ether > 10-20 seconds: no real output from plan 9 > 20-30 seconds (or so): until I get the 'boot from [il]' prompt > ... i just tried some boots without a plan9.ini (9load tweaked to probe suitable ether devices, but no other changes). the machine is a standard asus k7m motherboard with a floppy and 2 ether cards, no other peripherals: it takes 20s from power on to get 9load off the floppy, probe for peripherals and get to the 'boot from: ' prompt; it takes 3s after typing 'ether0!/386/9pccpu' to the above prompt to get the kernel over the ether and get the 'root is from (il, tcp)[il]: ' prompt. perhaps the kernel is poking some other peripherals on your system (e.g. things that look like discs) to create the delay you see after the kernel is loaded? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 05:23:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 05:23:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28055 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 05:23:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28051 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 05:23:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 05:23:38 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 26231199ED; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:23:28 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp807.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp807.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.186]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C62B5199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:22:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-29-76.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.29.76 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 20:22:17 -0000 Message-ID: <3EDE62B4.5020106@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] some #s References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 16:20:52 -0500 > > >Yes, in many cases, CPU servers should reboot after each job, in many >environments -- not just US Gov't either, industry people can be quite >paranoid. So it matters. > Ron, can you please elaborate on this? I'm not sure why a CPU should reboot and foggy on when you deem a job 'over'. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 07:39:53 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 07:39:53 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29697 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 07:39:52 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29693 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 07:39:52 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 07:39:52 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B206419A69; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:39:28 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 72331199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:38:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h54Mc9qj020223 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:38:09 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h54Mc9j6019708 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:38:09 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] some #s In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:38:09 -0600 (MDT) On Wed, 4 Jun 2003 jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > perhaps the kernel is poking some other peripherals on your system (e.g. things > that look like discs) to create the delay you see after the kernel is loaded? next on my list, that's a good thing to check. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 08:02:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 08:02:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29980 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 08:02:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29976 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 08:02:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 08:02:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AA8CC19A86; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 19:02:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 407C619A86 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 19:01:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h54N6Rf09904 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:06:27 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <3EDE62B4.5020106@ameritech.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Re: some #s Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:06:27 -0500 (CDT) On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, northern snowfall wrote: > >Yes, in many cases, CPU servers should reboot after each job, in many > >environments -- not just US Gov't either, industry people can be quite > >paranoid. So it matters. > > > Ron, can you please elaborate on this? I'm not sure why a CPU should > reboot and foggy on when you deem a job 'over'. Memory leakage, if all the memory isn't written to a known state then in some environments a serious security risk may be opened. Swap is another well known example. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 08:27:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 08:27:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30310 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 08:27:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30306 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 08:27:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 08:27:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C500719AAC; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 19:27:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.184]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 7D63719A98 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 19:26:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-29-76.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.29.76 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 23:26:19 -0000 Message-ID: <3EDE8DD6.6060101@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 19:24:54 -0500 > > >Memory leakage, if all the memory isn't written to a known state then in >some environments a serious security risk may be opened. Swap is another >well known example. > Rebooting doesn't eradicate that vulnerability. It only obfuscates its scope. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 08:34:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 08:34:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30425 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 08:34:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30421 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 08:34:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 08:34:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 724C119AAD; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 19:34:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4871D19A98 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 19:33:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5e5ecfae8bd0a71338e0f18173b5c0c8@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] D-Link 538 support (RTL8139 chipset) From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:33:03 -0700 I'm not sure; I'll have to look at the syskonnect web site. I've revived the NS 83820 driver, which drives some cards I have from either d-link or linksys; I can't remember which. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 08:44:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 08:44:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30628 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 08:44:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30624 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 08:44:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 08:44:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BD55819AB5; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 19:44:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C38DF19AB1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 19:43:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] D-Link 538 support (RTL8139 chipset) From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:43:14 -0700 Ah, my 83820 cards are D-link DGE-500Ts. It appears that SysKonnect have done their own unique thing. The GEnesis Ethernet ASIC seems to be unlike the 83820. The 83820 cards have disappointing performance (rougly 100Mb/s) and I'd be tempted these days to go with the Intel PRO/1000 cards. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 10:33:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 10:33:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2401 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 10:33:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2397 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 10:33:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 10:33:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E6A5119AB1; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 21:33:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from web40413.mail.yahoo.com (web40413.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.110]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C571419AAA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 21:32:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <20030605013240.33002.qmail@web40413.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.210.205.126] by web40413.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 04 Jun 2003 18:32:40 PDT From: "A. Baker" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] Chaos anyone? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:32:40 -0700 (PDT) I'd be (wildly) interested in comments of the security persuasion. (Plan 9s current model vs Unix (yes I RTFM, TYVM :-) vs Process-Based Security(PBS), vs ... ? See This? http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=620&ncid=620&e=4&u=/nf/20030603/bs_nf/21652 (in essence) HydraOS "It is "the first hack proof Web-services appliance -------------8<------------- (Welllll?) http://www.thirdpig.com/brickserver.htm -------------8<------------- which can defend against such an attack and will never crash," Bodacion Technologies chief software architect Eric Uner told NewsFactor. "The server's combination of complex mathematics and embedded systems makes it impervious." The Hydra operating system (OS) is composed of a small real-time nano-kernel, TCP/IP networking stack, Web server, FTP server and file system designed by former Motorolasoftware engineers Uner and Eric Hauk. Hydra's kernel is loaded from flash memory rather than disk, according to company specifications. Each time Hydra loads the kernel, it checks for viruses, then constantly scans the kernel in RAM for any viruses or unauthorized changes. "Hydra's embedded kernel is one aspect that makes Hydra so revolutionary," Bodacion's documentation claims. "Hydra constantly checks its small kernel for corruption, making Hydra immune to viruses." Bodacion's Hydra server uses biomorphic mathematics -- a derivative of Chaos Theory used to model the random growth of living things -- to generate series of pattern-less numbers that cannot be deciphered by hackers, even if they possess the basic mathematical formula, Uner told NewsFactor. No two Hydra users ever receive the same session ID, customer ID, order ID, or any other digital identification. Nor will any hacker be able to discern a pattern and predict the next number, Uner added." http://hydra.hellug.gr/download.html Also has anyone honeypotted, -netted Plan 9 (yet)? http://www.honeypots.net/ http://www.securityfocus.com/infocus/1506/ Alllll those big words! I've been gone awhile and am trying to catch up. I'm actively(?!) putting off the gauntlet of hardening my sacrificial (Unix) Gnu(g)oat. Many thanks, ===== Boojum __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 12:21:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 12:21:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8788 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 12:21:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8784 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 12:21:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 12:21:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 56E0F19ABD; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 23:21:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 312C719AB4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 23:20:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h553K30l004288 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 21:20:03 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h553K3j6028420 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 21:20:03 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] some #s In-Reply-To: <3EDE62B4.5020106@ameritech.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 21:20:03 -0600 (MDT) On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, northern snowfall wrote: > Ron, can you please elaborate on this? I'm not sure why a CPU should > reboot and foggy on when you deem a job 'over'. need to reboot: all jobs leave state on a machine in one form or another. 'over': user-defined Which means: after a job is over, state can be left behind. Depending on the context this can be "bad". I had a long writeup here on things that can happen and what you need to do but I'm going to leave it at 'sometimes you need to reboot after a job is over' :-) ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 12:21:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 12:21:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8798 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 12:21:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8794 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 12:21:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 12:21:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4CB0819AC6; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 23:21:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8689B19A7D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 23:20:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA09040 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 23:20:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h553KG516675 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 23:20:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306050320.h553KG516675@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 04 Jun 2003 19:24:54 CDT." <3EDE8DD6.6060101@ameritech.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 23:20:16 -0400 > >Memory leakage, if all the memory isn't written to a known state then in > >some environments a serious security risk may be opened. Swap is another > >well known example. > > Rebooting doesn't eradicate that vulnerability. It only obfuscates its > scope. Most problems that run in massively parallel configurations (as on `grid' style machines) don't swap; each individual job is sized to run in the available memory of the processor it's running on. Swapping is just too slow. I have no idea what Choate means by ``memory leakage.'' Most sytems have well defined semantics for returning memory to a ``known state'' after a process exits, and it's reasonable to assume that `jobs' come in units of processes. Perhaps there are some that don't, but considering that we're talking about Plan 9 here, that doesn't seem relevant. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 12:28:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 12:28:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9069 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 12:28:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9062 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 12:28:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 12:28:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F195E19AC5; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 23:28:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 90C3619AB7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 23:27:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <217375-30656>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 23:26:42 -0400 Message-ID: <014a01c32b12$403ab1e0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0147_01C32B23.025B6660" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [9fans] more rock 'n bowl trivia Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 05:26:25 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0147_01C32B23.025B6660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ------=_NextPart_000_0147_01C32B23.025B6660 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="rock-n-bowl.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 479A619AC9; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 23:34:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D813819AB4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 23:33:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: Geoff Collyer To: 9fans@collyer.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] ipaq installation changes Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 20:33:51 -0700 I just installed Plan 9 on an ipaq. Both Booting101 and the wiki need to be updated. I bought my ipaq used and it appears to have been upgraded to Pocket PC 2002. Booting101 recommends osloader 1.3.0 and bootldr 0000-2.14.8. None of the compaq nor handheld web nor ftp sites have osloader-1.3.0 any more, though you can find it with google. None of osloader 1.3.0, 1.5.4 and 1.5.6 worked correctly, possibly due to the upgrade to Pocket PC 2002. In addition, wince's File Explorer refuses to show you file extensions and won't even let you change or eliminate them by renaming, so creating a copy of bootldr called exactly "\bootldr" required creating such a file on a Windows PC and using ActiveSync to copy it across to the ipaq. Running osloader 1.3.0 and selecting "Run" produced the complaint "comparison error". Once I got osloader 1.3.0 to load bootldr 0000-2.14.8 (by selecting "Run after loading from file"), the screen blanked but there was no boot loader talking on the serial port. I performed a paper-clip reset and, after assurances from nemo that it was probably safe, flashed bootldr 0000-2.14.8 using bootblaster 1.18 (select "Program"). This was quite painless and didn't require the use of xmodem. I then held the "joybutton"'s center and did another paper-clip reset. I got the penguin menu and selected "serial bootldr console", typed return, and got "boot>". The first 3 partitions were already correctly defined; I defined the last 3 and loaded the kernel and paqdisk via xmodem, reset the ipaq and Plan 9 came up through the penguin menu. (Be careful here: the backspace and delete keys are adjacent on the wee keyboard and it's much too easy to hit delete instead of backspace, especially if you haven't calibrated the screen dead-on.) Suspend and resume seem to work. I've put copies of the relevant boot loaders and an updated version of Booting101 at www.collyer.net/who/geoff/9/bitsy/ so that others can find them easily. Is anybody working on making the Targus Stowaway collapsible keyboard work on the ipaq? It would sure be easier than trying to hit the right keys on the wee keyboard at the bottom of the screen. What do you other folks with bitsies do with them? I found Plan 9 on the bitsy to be less robust than I'd expected. Running mfs and then acme locally crashed it, as did running mfs and aux/timesync locally. When it crashes, I get no messages, just the penguin (`you lose, back to Linux', I guess). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 12:59:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 12:59:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10162 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 12:59:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10158 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 12:59:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 12:59:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D19C819AC8; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 23:59:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5744619AB9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 23:58:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Jun 4 23:58:42 EDT 2003 Received: from 205.170.1.68 ([205.170.1.68]) by plan9; Wed Jun 4 23:58:39 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <84b315903b65e419d3f5873b08fc60e0@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] usenix says Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 23:58:49 -0400 > Exhibits Only passes are free and entitle you to attend the keynote, > evening BOFs, and exhibits. So maybe you don't need motorcycles after all. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 13:32:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 13:32:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11772 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 13:32:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11768 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 13:32:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 13:32:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A07F19AB4; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 00:32:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E32619A7D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 00:31:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h554Vt0l012194 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 22:31:55 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h554Vtj6030388 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 22:31:55 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] ports ... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 22:31:55 -0600 (MDT) I noticed somebody asking about the MIPS and SPARC ports. Hey, you want to do a port, do something interesting like the K8 ... AMD is flooding the world with docs on all the internals, and they're being friendly. It's really amazing how open they are being. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 14:00:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 14:00:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12800 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 14:00:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12794 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 14:00:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 14:00:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E9C719A2D; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 01:00:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [64.71.129.86]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 66AE819A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 00:59:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 0C23766B28; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 21:59:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ports ... Message-ID: <20030605045955.GC73958@cassie.foobarbaz.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 21:59:55 -0700 Peter Wemm of Yahoo! has been working on the FreeBSD port of amd64. It'd be a fun project, if I could get my hands on the hardware. :) When, recently, was someone talking about MIPS and SPARC ports? Porting to a 64-bit architecture, while not pointless, seems not as exciting, since Plan 9 cannot currently use the the more interesting capabilities a 64-bit processor provides. And from the sounds of it, it is non-trivial to make Plan 9 64-bit. I remember something being said about the reliance on pointers being 32-bits. Please correct me if I am mistaken; this is completely from memory. On Wed, Jun 04, 2003 at 10:31:55PM -0600, ron minnich wrote: > > I noticed somebody asking about the MIPS and SPARC ports. > > Hey, you want to do a port, do something interesting like the K8 ... AMD > is flooding the world with docs on all the internals, and they're being > friendly. It's really amazing how open they are being. -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 16:33:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 16:33:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19870 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 16:33:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19866 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 16:33:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 16:33:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF0C219AB9; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 03:33:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D9FA19A98 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 03:32:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1ec9123d8949805be68aeafcf6b19ae7@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ipaq installation changes From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:32:28 +0200 > I just installed Plan 9 on an ipaq. Both Booting101 and the wiki need > to be updated. I bought my ipaq used and it appears to have been Thanks a lot. > I've put copies of the relevant boot loaders and an updated version of > Booting101 at www.collyer.net/who/geoff/9/bitsy/ so that others can > find them easily. > Great. I'll copy your Booting101 to sources > Is anybody working on making the Targus Stowaway collapsible keyboard > work on the ipaq? It would sure be easier than trying to hit the > right keys on the wee keyboard at the bottom of the screen. Not that I know. > What do you other folks with bitsies do with them? Mostly to listen music and some times for meetings. I run out of battery so often that I cannot use it as a PDA (use a Palm for that). > I found Plan 9 on the bitsy to be less robust than I'd expected. > Running mfs and then acme locally crashed it, as did running mfs and > aux/timesync locally. When it crashes, I get no messages, just the > penguin (`you lose, back to Linux', I guess). I couldnt reproduce this. Did you recompile the 5[acl] set and all the libraries and commands for the arm after that. Acme crashed for me before I did that (I really mean acme, and not the kernel). Did you have the bitsy on the serial line while crashed? Was there any message in the serial console? The print for the console is disabled to avoid cluttering the display, messages go to the serial line instead. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 16:42:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 16:42:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20229 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 16:42:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20225 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 16:42:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 16:42:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3B39419AA1; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 03:42:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B9AAC19A98 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 03:41:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4fcdd723c7a1b188b50428b7faf536d4@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ipaq installation changes From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <1ec9123d8949805be68aeafcf6b19ae7@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 00:41:48 -0700 I pulled, then rebuilt /*/bin/5[acl] and then the whole /arm tree on May 19th. Has anything significant changed since then? I hadn't had the bitsy connected to the serial line when the bitsy crashed; I'll try that. Thanks. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 16:47:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 16:47:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20455 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 16:47:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20451 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 16:47:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 16:47:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8C8D719AC3; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 03:47:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ACDDD199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 03:46:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4cdcf3f74f3876a12373a723b91ec3c9@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ipaq installation changes From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <4fcdd723c7a1b188b50428b7faf536d4@collyer.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:46:02 +0200 > I pulled, then rebuilt /*/bin/5[acl] and then the whole /arm tree on > May 19th. Has anything significant changed since then? I'm not sure, but I think my paqfs crashed after that date; All I did to fix the problem was to recompile it. I'd just recompile if only for safety. Perhaps it was before May 19th, but I just dont remember; sorry. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 20:29:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 20:29:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26844 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 20:29:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26840 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 20:29:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 20:29:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EEBD919AC1; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 07:29:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 46534199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 07:28:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h55BX8Z16118 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 06:33:08 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s In-Reply-To: <200306050320.h553KG516675@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 06:33:08 -0500 (CDT) On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > I have no idea what Choate means by ``memory leakage.'' > Most sytems have well defined semantics for returning memory to a > ``known state'' after a process exits, And Unix and Microsoft (among many others) are known not to do that well. Not to mention the many times programmers just don't do 'the right thing'. Some time reading security literature about such holes will be quite elucidating. Try starting with "Applied Cryptography". -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 22:14:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 22:14:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29335 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 22:14:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29331 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 22:14:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 22:14:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7ABE519AC0; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:14:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1101919A40 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:13:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <16e35360c3dcabe9826a019f1e209155@plan9.bell-labs.com> quux: guy steele's favorite word? From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ipaq installation changes In-Reply-To: <1ec9123d8949805be68aeafcf6b19ae7@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:13:52 -0400 > What do you other folks with bitsies do with them? I find they make excellent paper weights. They turned out less useful than I had hoped (at least to me). I had originally wanted to use one as a replacement to carrying a PC. Unfortunately, the input slows me down way too much for that and the screen, even with small fonts, is pretty tight. The foldable keyboard would probably help. I ordered one and it never came. With a wavelan, it does make a nice remote control when giving presentations. Just plug a projector into a PC, then import the keyboard and mouse from the bitsy, then start page, rio, or whatever. There should be more possiblities there. It makes a usable voice communications device. With a little more support it could be an IP telephone. Someone would have to do all the hard stuff to make it compatible with RTP/H323/SIP whatever. If you walk around wearing headphones and singing to yourself, then it makes an OK replacement for an walkman. At least it makes you look like you're listening to something rather than just crazy. A bit pricey for that unless you get one off of ebay. If we had a web broswer that actually worked it would be much more usable. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 22:19:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 22:19:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29405 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 22:19:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29401 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 22:19:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 22:19:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 88F1C19ACE; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:19:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0B16219A40 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:18:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: quux: guy steele's favorite word? From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ports ... In-Reply-To: <20030605045955.GC73958@cassie.foobarbaz.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:18:21 -0400 It would be work to move to 64 bit pointers. Not infinite though. The reliance is more on ulong and pointer being the same size. If they're both 64 bits, it'll be pretty easy. The truly hard part is changing the compiler and debugging it afterwards. If you have to simultaneously rewrite a compiler and do a port, its much easier to have multiple people. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 22:39:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 22:39:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29750 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 22:39:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29746 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 22:39:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 22:39:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1523419ACB; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:39:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8D1E119A40 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:38:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55Dcs5s005634 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 15:38:54 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55Dcql2003428 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 15:38:52 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id h55Dcr925505 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 15:38:53 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <200306051338.h55Dcr925505@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with version: MH 6.8.3 #20[UCI] To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ipaq installation changes In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 05 Jun 2003 09:13:52 -0400." <16e35360c3dcabe9826a019f1e209155@plan9.bell-labs.com> References: <16e35360c3dcabe9826a019f1e209155@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 15:38:53 +0200 > > What do you other folks with bitsies do with them? > > I find they make excellent paper weights. agreed. :-) (although mine is usually not even used that way, mostly it just doesn't leave the bag I transport between home and office) > Unfortunately, the input slows me down I've been wondering how much better the zyrix is in the respect (if I recall the name correctly), I'm referring to a linux pda with a built-in keyboard, that is normally hidden until you slide open the pda. In principle, the bitsy is much more extensible, but if that is something really used in practice? With a wavelan I've been using it as a small ``testing'' and (e.g. network) monitorin device. It's a nice little terminal to bring to the machine room several floors down, when I'm changing (rebooting) the fs and cpu/auth server (cs?), just to check that things are up and running, before walking upstairs. Before I had the bitsy, I occasionally brought with me a heavier, bigger, laptop. > If we had a web broswer that actually worked it would be much > more usable. I've occasionally used it with vnc to unix, to read email via mh and even run mozilla, with the tiniest font I could find. Even then, indeed, the screen is rather small. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 22:47:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 22:47:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29866 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 22:47:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29862 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 22:47:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 22:47:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 59C1319ABC; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:47:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from MIMESWEEPER.pigroup.co.uk (unknown [194.203.134.3]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B35651998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:46:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from eagle.pigroup.co.uk (unverified) by MIMESWEEPER.pigroup.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.3.1) with ESMTP id for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:46:52 +0100 Received: by eagle.pigroup.co.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:48:14 +0100 Message-ID: From: Stephen Parker To: "'9fans@cse.psu.edu'" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: RE: [9fans] ipaq installation changes MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_000_01C32B69.1B30CF90" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:48:12 +0100 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_000_01C32B69.1B30CF90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I have to (embarrassingly) admit that I've gone back to wince on mine, after having a paperweight powered by linux, plan9, and inferno. At least with wince its a working address book. stephen (One day I'm still hoping to get bluetooth working with inferno on it, but not soon.) ------_=_NextPart_000_01C32B69.1B30CF90 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Description: Re: [9fans] ipaq installation changes Message-ID: <200306051338.h55Dcr925505@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> From: Axel Belinfante Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ipaq installation changes Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:38:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > What do you other folks with bitsies do with them? > > I find they make excellent paper weights. agreed. :-) (although mine is usually not even used that way, mostly it just doesn't leave the bag I transport between home and office) > Unfortunately, the input slows me down I've been wondering how much better the zyrix is in the respect (if I recall the name correctly), I'm referring to a linux pda with a built-in keyboard, that is normally hidden until you slide open the pda. In principle, the bitsy is much more extensible, but if that is something really used in practice? With a wavelan I've been using it as a small ``testing'' and (e.g. network) monitorin device. It's a nice little terminal to bring to the machine room several floors down, when I'm changing (rebooting) the fs and cpu/auth server (cs?), just to check that things are up and running, before walking upstairs. Before I had the bitsy, I occasionally brought with me a heavier, bigger, laptop. > If we had a web broswer that actually worked it would be much > more usable. I've occasionally used it with vnc to unix, to read email via mh and even run mozilla, with the tiniest font I could find. Even then, indeed, the screen is rather small. ------_=_NextPart_000_01C32B69.1B30CF90-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 23:12:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 23:12:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30295 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 23:12:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30291 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 23:12:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 23:12:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 841B31998C; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 10:12:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 589B119AB7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 10:11:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <653b24641e10dd1f52534fa91ee8f76a@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ports ... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 10:11:09 -0400 if we had a need and the hardware we'd port to the k8. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 00:30:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 00:30:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31583 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 00:30:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31578 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 00:30:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 00:30:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 89151199B7; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 11:30:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cleese.nas.com (cleese.nas.com [198.182.207.3]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 85665199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 11:29:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (cleese.nas.com [198.182.207.3]) by cleese.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B90C3643F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 08:29:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Jack Johnson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ports ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 08:29:26 -0700 (PDT) On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, ron minnich wrote: > I noticed somebody asking about the MIPS and SPARC ports. > > Hey, you want to do a port, do something interesting like the K8 ... It's funny the dichotomy about the porting issue. Some people like/want/need to use new hardware and others like/want/need to resuscitate older hardware. Linux has this legacy hardware support for which (I think) they do an increasingly poorer job of supporting (NetBSD probably does a better job of continuing support). So, for everybody, recent hardware tends to get decent support for a while, then a kind of "recovery support" where the popular items get fixed when they break under version x, then you get the trailing stuff where popular hardware from five generations ago is free or nearly free and there's a request or push for new support for legacy hardware. Plan 9 always intrigued me with its thin workstation concept, where the workstation can be so-so to barely bearable but always supported by decent (or exceptional) file/cpu servers. So, I suppose I'm just rambling, but my vote is equally split between SPARC and K8. -Jack From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 01:07:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 01:07:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32303 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 01:07:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32299 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 01:07:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 01:07:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 75E6E19AD2; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 12:07:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cleese.nas.com (cleese.nas.com [198.182.207.3]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 64BDD19A9C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 12:06:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (cleese.nas.com [198.182.207.3]) by cleese.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A94C536537 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:06:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Jack Johnson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ipaq installation changes In-Reply-To: <16e35360c3dcabe9826a019f1e209155@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:06:32 -0700 (PDT) On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, David Presotto wrote: > > What do you other folks with bitsies do with them? > I find they make excellent paper weights. They turned out less [...] > With a wavelan, it does make a nice remote [...] > It makes a usable voice communications device. With a little > more support it could be an IP telephone. Someone would have I always thought that if I shelled out the money, I'd attempt to utilize one as a PARCTab on steroids: http://sandbox.parc.xerox.com/parctab/ I think the big thing is to get away from the idea of using it as a portable terminal and drag it in some new direction. Stream audio from all of the conference rooms and have it hop from room to room as you walk through the building. Email/voicemail/pager/fax redirection, at work and at home. I've also thought that with the limited display and input, having an IRC infobot as an agent would be a fun interface to experiment with. Or maybe even Googlism ( http://googlism.com ) culling information from your personal files. Rather than spending your time looking for a specific piece of information in a specific application or database and dealing with the input misery, you just throw out a keyword and skim all the possible responses. Maybe a menu of recent queries. -Jack From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 01:37:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 01:37:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32695 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 01:37:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32691 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 01:37:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 01:37:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1BAB319A0D; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 12:37:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from minster.cs.york.ac.uk (minster.cs.york.ac.uk [144.32.40.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F2BD19A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 12:36:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pc118 ([144.32.41.119] helo=pc118.cs.york.ac.uk ident=1530) by minster.cs.york.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 19Nxg9-0005nq-00; Thu, 05 Jun 2003 17:33:29 +0100 Subject: Re: [9fans] ipaq installation changes From: John Murdie To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: john@cs.york.ac.uk In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Message-Id: <1054830809.1365.50.camel@pc118> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanner: exiscan *19Nxg9-0005nq-00*qKd/NB0ZgRE* Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 05 Jun 2003 17:33:29 +0100 On Thu, 2003-06-05 at 17:06, Jack Johnson wrote: > I always thought that if I shelled out the money, I'd attempt to utilize > one as a PARCTab on steroids: > > http://sandbox.parc.xerox.com/parctab/ > ... > -Jack Not long to wait now for the Oqo (http://www.oqo.com/), if you want a real PC you can hold in your hand - release date September 2003. (Yes, I know of the Antelope, Tiqit, Zaurii etc and, yes, the lack of a keyboard or mouse is actually an advantage - think Intel's portable personal server - http://www.intel.com/research/exploratory/personal_server.htm). Perhaps the OQO isn't vapourware, after all! (See Wired http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,57023-2,00.html). There's a nice picture of an OQO prototype at http://www.danionics.com/sw1226.asp. John A. Murdie Department of Computer Science University of York From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 03:34:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 03:34:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1703 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 03:34:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1699 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 03:34:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 03:34:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3593E19A8B; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:34:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CDEAC19A19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:33:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <79db0b44d214dd202bc8729693d3f054@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <1054830809.1365.50.camel@pc118> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] handheld computers Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 19:36:39 +0100 my problem with all the devices i've seen is battery life and robustness. my old sharp personal organiser lasts for >8months without changing the batteries, and it's been through hell without a murmur (it's over 8 years old now and only a few dead pixels to show for it). it seems a pity that these kinds of characteristics seem inevitable casualties of the progress in other areas. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 03:36:16 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 03:36:16 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1730 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 03:36:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1726 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 03:36:15 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 03:36:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D40F19AD0; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:36:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2D6FC19AAA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:35:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Fco.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] leaks? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:35:02 +0200 I've been monitoring the memory usage in our file server and it seems to steadily increase. This script shows the growing memory usage from our last reboot (but it seems to keep on growing according to the records for other periods of (up)time). The numbers have been collected by cron at 3am, when there's almost no system activity. #!/bin/rc # w swapstats cat $0 | grep '^[0-9]' | awk -F/ '{print $1}' | graph -a | plot exit '' 53150/110163 memory 0/160000 swap 53350/110163 memory 0/160000 swap 53857/110163 memory 0/160000 swap 54082/110163 memory 0/160000 swap 54583/110163 memory 0/160000 swap A ps reveals that it might be both venti and fossil the ones eating memory. For example, these are fossil and venti initially: elf 34 0:00 0:00 11872K Rendez venti elf 41 0:00 0:00 190132K Rendez fossil [cons] these are the numbers after four days: elf 34 0:00 0:00 12384K Rendez venti elf 41 0:00 0:00 190480K Rendez fossil [cons] Does this happen at other sites? It's not a big deal, but might be of concern if we want to leave the machine unattended for a long period of time. I didnt try leak w/ them (anyone did?) thanks a lot PS: BTW, both venti and fossil work just great and rock solid here. We had no problem at all. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 03:40:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 03:40:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1752 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 03:40:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1748 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 03:40:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 03:40:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E5F1B19ADA; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:40:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2311C19A19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:39:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] handheld computers From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <79db0b44d214dd202bc8729693d3f054@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:39:33 +0200 > it seems a pity that these kinds of characteristics seem inevitable > casualties of the progress in other areas. The problem is that even if you dont use the xtra features, battery is still scarce. I tried the ipaq w/o using light, sound, nor any other fancy feature. The battery w/ Plan 9 takes a single day to expire for me. Didn't try w/ Windows, but I wouldnt say it would last once week. The downsized palm zire I bought for agenda and the like takes like several weeks to get below 100% of battery. That's why my bitsy is now a desktop system, sic. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 07:13:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 07:13:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4209 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 07:13:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4205 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 07:13:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 07:13:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2EFBE19AD5; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:13:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (orthanc.ab.ca [216.123.230.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E101A1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:12:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orthanc.ab.ca ([192.168.42.6]) by orthanc.ab.ca (8.12.6p2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h55MCKv2055885 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:12:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Subject: Re: [9fans] ipaq installation changes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Lyndon Nerenberg To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <16e35360c3dcabe9826a019f1e209155@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:12:19 -0600 If any of you have run both Plan9 and Inferno on the iPaq I would be interested in hearing how you think they compare. I'm going to have to make a decision in a week or so about which one to install. Right now I'm leaning towards Inferno, primarily because of charon. --lyndon From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 07:19:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 07:19:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4308 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 07:19:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4304 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 07:19:15 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 07:19:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E5B719A9C; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:19:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0930619A40 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:18:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <38a96cd8a9baff61ea77aae57acaba78@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ipaq installation changes From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <200306051338.h55Dcr925505@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 15:18:04 -0700 The zaurus keyboard is too small to be of use to a touch-typist, but it is better than the wee 9bitsy keyboard. I had hoped to use my bitsy instead of a laptop and for ssh, mail and the odd grep, it's probably going to be okay, modulo the input issue. Web browsing is obviously not really going to work well. (I suppose one could port Inferno to Plan 9 on the bitsy. I'd rather not run native Inferno because I want 9p [or at least cpu] access to my files. Even so, the screen limitations make browsing painful; I tried it under WinCE.) I think I'm going to try to get the Targus keyboard to work. What's the non-power connector on the bottom of the bitsy that connects to the serial or usb cradle? Is it just a serial port? I suppose one would have to disable the use of the serial port as a serial console first. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 07:38:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 07:38:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4547 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 07:38:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4542 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 07:38:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 07:38:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E00319ACA; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:38:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 95013199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:37:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08636 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:37:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h55Mbm521958 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:37:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306052237.h55Mbm521958@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ipaq installation changes In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 05 Jun 2003 15:18:04 PDT." <38a96cd8a9baff61ea77aae57acaba78@collyer.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 18:37:48 -0400 I worked on the Targus keyboard a good long while ago. I meant to finish getting it working, but the bitsy has been turned off in a box for a very long time, so the targus hasn't been used. I'll send you the code I wrote a little later. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 07:42:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 07:42:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4590 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 07:42:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4586 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 07:42:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 07:42:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C02D619A99; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:42:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7A8E819A40 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:41:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA09101 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:41:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h55Mf9521982 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:41:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306052241.h55Mf9521982@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 05 Jun 2003 06:33:08 CDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 18:41:08 -0400 Jim Choate writes: > > Most sytems have well defined semantics for returning memory to a > > ``known state'' after a process exits, > > And Unix and Microsoft (among many others) are known not to do that well. Which, as I stated, is irrelevant since we're talking about Plan 9. > Not to mention the many times programmers just don't do 'the right thing'. Which programmers are those? The OS programmers, or the application programmers? My whole point was that what the application programmers did was irrelevant. > Some time reading security literature about such holes will be quite > elucidating. Try starting with "Applied Cryptography". You know, I don't know why you think you're such an expert on everything. Some time spent reading a book on basic English grammar and spelling might be quite elucidating. Try starting with ``Dick and Jane.'' - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 07:57:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 07:57:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4791 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 07:57:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4787 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 07:57:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 07:57:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 236D619AE0; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:57:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from Princeton.EDU (postoffice02.Princeton.EDU [128.112.130.38]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1EB1F19AD8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:56:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU (smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.65]) by Princeton.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55Mu7SJ017229 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Princeton.EDU (lane.Princeton.EDU [128.112.52.125]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55Mu2ZD013806 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3EDFCA81.3000706@Princeton.EDU> From: Martin Harriss User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ipaq installation changes References: <38a96cd8a9baff61ea77aae57acaba78@collyer.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 18:56:01 -0400 Geoff Collyer wrote: > ... > I think I'm going to try to get the Targus keyboard to work. What's > the non-power connector on the bottom of the bitsy that connects to > the serial or usb cradle? Is it just a serial port? I suppose one > would have to disable the use of the serial port as a serial console > first. > It's serial and USB. Somwhere (handhelds.org?) I found the pin out. If it would help I can send it to you. Martin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 08:02:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 08:02:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4917 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 08:02:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4913 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 08:02:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 08:02:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 90D1719AE2; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 19:02:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1381A19ADE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 19:01:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h55N64L21560 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:06:05 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s In-Reply-To: <200306052241.h55Mf9521982@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:06:04 -0500 (CDT) On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > Which, as I stated, is irrelevant since we're talking about Plan 9. Which has yet to go through a professional level vetting. About the best that can be said for it was what was published in "Maximum Security". > Which programmers are those? The OS programmers, or the application > programmers? My whole point was that what the application programmers > did was irrelevant. Really? Talk to some crypto programmers some time. I think they'd disagree with you a great deal on that one. The reality is that memory leakage via apps -is- a major concern for real world security issues. OS'es don't have the best record in that regard either. I'd suggest arXiv or SiteSeer as a start. You can also take a look at the NSA version of Linux. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 08:23:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 08:23:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5258 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 08:23:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5254 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 08:23:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 08:23:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D2E7D19A40; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 19:23:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3CE3519AE6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 19:22:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: Geoff Collyer To: 9fans@collyer.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] bitsy panics Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:22:01 -0700 Okay, life is a little better. I set up a local lib/profile and got rid of the scribble area, so the wee keyboard is wider. I'm going to comment-out the increfp/decrefp prints in the bitsy kernel. I reproduced the acme and timesync panics and this time captured the (wonderfully garbled) serial console output, enclosed below. acme panic: --- kernel fault: type 0x00000018 psr 0x20000013 pc 0xc006611c r0 0x00000001 r1 0xc0585c48 r2 0xc0585c48 r3 0x00000001 r4 0x51494f42 r5 0xc07b0f08 r6 0x00000037 r7 0x6c000a74 r8 0x64696375 r9 0x6e617361 r10 0x6c000873 r11 0x312e7273 r12 0xc009b5c4 rkernel fault: type 0x00000018 psr 0x20000013 pc 0xc006611c r0 0x00000001 r1 0xc05827c8 r2 0xc05827c8 r3 0x00000001 r4 0x51494f42 r5 0xc07b0fc8 r6 0xc06a1fb1 r7 0xc07b1043 r8 0x00000000 r9 0x00000000 r10 0x00000000 r11 0x000dbba0 r12 0xc009b5c4 rpanic: fault: kernel accessing 0x19 panic: faktrace /kernel/path c000b034 c0779354 c003de58 ult: kec0779300=c000b030 rnel accessc077930c=c0036f74 ing 0x1c0779330=c0037058 9 c0779348=c0037228 c077934c=c000b030 c0779350=c003722c c0779358=c0009e60 c077939c=c008f488 c07793b4=c0090474 c07793b8=c006ed7c c07793c0=c006ed0c c07793c4=c0090498 c07793cc=c006f92c c07793d0=c0090998 c07793d4=c006f914 c07793e8=c0071e28 c07793f8=c002a014 c077940c=c008edbc c0779410=c0062354 c0779414=c008f048 c0779420=c008f00c c0779428=c008f510 c0779430=c008f488 c0779448=c006b468 c077944c=c006ed7c c077945c=c0009e28 c0779460=c006f92c c0779478=c000a200 c077948c=c002a014 c07794a4=c0062354 c07794b0=c0065a80 c07794b4=c0061c34 c07794e0=c0062b80 c07794f8=c00718f8 c07794fc=c00718d4 c0779508=c00718d4 c0779510=c00624b4 c0779514=c00082ac c0779534=c0061494 c0779540=c0062b90 c0779550=c0064b94 c0779554=c0064b9c c0779564=c0065a80 c0779568=c0065a80 c0779570=c008ee2c c0779588=c008f048 c0779594=c008f00c c077959c=c009093c c07795a8=c0090850 c07795bc=c0090c9c c0779608=c0072c84 c0779618=c0072c84 c077961c=c0072c94 c0779624=c002a18c c077962c=c002a130 c0779630=c0073510 c0779634=c008f510 c0779640=c002a534 c0779654=c002a4a0 c07796a8=c0031a30 c07796b0=c001f354 c07796cc=c00733e4 c07796d8=c0073560 c07796dc=c001bbfc c07796e0=c0073510 c07796e8=c001ac9c c07796f4=c001acc4 c0779700=c001f230 c0779710=c001a938 c0779754=c00733e4 c0779784=c0073510 it's a wonderful day to die --- aux/timesync panic: --- kernel fault: type 0x00000018 psr 0x20000013 pc 0xc006611c r0 0x00000001 r1 0xc0580d88 r2 0xc0580d88 r3 0x00000001 r4 0x51494f42 r5 0xc077c408 r6 0x0000001a r7 0xc00e9a50 r8 0xc00e9a70 r9 0xc067c1c8 r10 0x00000000 r11 0xfffffff8 r12 0xc009b5c4 rpanic: fault: kernel accessing 0x19 panic: faktrace /kernel/path c000b034 c075fca4 c003de58 ult: kec075fc50=c000b030 rnel acc075fc5c=c0036f74 cessingc075fc80=c0037058 0x19 c075fc98=c0037228 c075fc9c=c000b030 c075fca0=c003722c c075fca8=c0009e60 c075fcf8=c0065cfc c075fd04=c0062698 c075fd0c=c0066198 c075fd18=c00626cc c075fd24=c0064adc c075fd38=c0064ae4 c075fd54=c007367c c075fd5c=c0073650 c075fd68=c0073650 c075fd70=c002a554 c075fd98=c006b468 c075fdac=c0009e28 c075fdc8=c000a200 c075fde8=c00733e4 c075fdec=c001b9ac c075fdf4=c0073560 c075fdfc=c0073510 c075fe00=c00721b4 c075fe04=c001ac9c c075fe0c=c0065a80 c075fe10=c0065a80 c075fe1c=c001f230 c075fe50=c0090498 c075fe64=c00082ac c075fe84=c006f6e4 c075fe8c=c006f5d8 c075fe90=c0073560 c075fea0=c0072414 c075fea4=c0073560 c075fea8=c007278c c075feac=c0073510 c075feb4=c0065a80 c075feb8=c0073510 c075febc=c0065a80 c075fec0=c008edbc c075fec8=c008f048 c075fed4=c008f00c c075fedc=c008f510 c075fee4=c008f488 c075fee8=c008f15c c075fefc=c0090474 c075ff0c=c0090498 c075ff18=c0090998 c075ff58=c0072c84 c075ff68=c0072c84 c075ff6c=c0072c94 c075ff74=c0072fa0 c075ff7c=c0072ed4 c075ff84=c0072ed4 c075ff90=c004d71c c075ffc8=c00155c4 c075ffe4=c0014a00 c075fff4=c0067f40 c075fffc=c006a910 c0760010=c0014950 c0760018=c001488c c0760044=c0069ab8 c0760058=c0065cfc c076006c=c00697f8 c0760090=c0069a50 c07600a0=c0076680 c07600cc=c00154dc c07600d4=c001529c c0760110=c0067c48 c0760118=c0067c2c c076011c=c00082e4 c0760140=c0076b88 c0760148=c0076b34 c0760150=c006be50 c076017c=c007665c c07601a8=c0008244 it's a wonderful day to die --- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 08:26:16 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 08:26:16 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5284 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 08:26:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5280 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 08:26:15 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 08:26:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A99D19AE9; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 19:26:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C35719AD8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 19:25:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <496858d56df393bfade5596490e46d0f@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ipaq installation changes From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 00:16:03 +0100 >>I think the big thing is to get away from the idea of using it as a >>portable terminal and drag it in some new direction. yes, i think that's right. having done that you might perhaps suddenly realise that some of the old things can be re-imported (i'm mainly thinking of cpu and web browsing here) but in a different and more useful form (given the form factor) having made the change of mental viewpoint. it is a curious device: reasonably nice screen (but small space), non-trivial integer CPU power (but what could you crunch), touch screen, buttons, flash storage, USB, wireless, ... one of my practical problems with the ipaq is that the device components change fast enough that even people working for the manufacturer can't quite keep up. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 09:22:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 09:22:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7035 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 09:22:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7031 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 09:22:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 09:22:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 911C419AEA; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:22:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 20ABC19AE6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:21:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33ce554b6927ec6c315f86c7933e034d@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bitsy panics From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 17:21:34 -0700 The pc in both panics appears to be in freeb(). cpu% acid /arm/s9bitsy /arm/s9bitsy:ARM plan 9 boot image /sys/lib/acid/port /sys/lib/acid/arm acid: src(0xc006611c) /sys/src/9/port/allocb.c:116 111 112 /* 113 * drivers which perform non cache coherent DMA manage their own buffer 114 * pool of uncached buffers and provide their own free routine. 115 */ >116 if(b->free) { 117 b->free(b); 118 return; 119 } 120 if(b->flag & BINTR) { 121 ilock(&ialloc); acid: From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 09:26:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 09:26:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7230 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 09:26:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7226 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 09:26:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 09:26:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3DF9019AD8; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:26:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B2FF419AD8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:25:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <13fe0dc8b3e09c208c83d277b439089b@plan9.bell-labs.com> quux: guy steele's favorite word? From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-akhlountcvhidafriiklndolso" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:25:13 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-akhlountcvhidafriiklndolso Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We don't zero pages till we're going to give them to another process. If you want to feel safe after doing something really secret, I'ld recommend power cycling at the least. Choate is completely right here. --upas-akhlountcvhidafriiklndolso Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Jun 5 19:02:19 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Jun 5 19:02:16 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 62AC119ADE; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 19:02:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1381A19ADE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 19:01:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h55N64L21560 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:06:05 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s In-Reply-To: <200306052241.h55Mf9521982@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:06:04 -0500 (CDT) On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > Which, as I stated, is irrelevant since we're talking about Plan 9. Which has yet to go through a professional level vetting. About the best that can be said for it was what was published in "Maximum Security". > Which programmers are those? The OS programmers, or the application > programmers? My whole point was that what the application programmers > did was irrelevant. Really? Talk to some crypto programmers some time. I think they'd disagree with you a great deal on that one. The reality is that memory leakage via apps -is- a major concern for real world security issues. OS'es don't have the best record in that regard either. I'd suggest arXiv or SiteSeer as a start. You can also take a look at the NSA version of Linux. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- --upas-akhlountcvhidafriiklndolso-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 09:52:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 09:52:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8485 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 09:52:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8481 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 09:52:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 09:52:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 658A219AEE; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:52:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 49E6419ADC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:51:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h560mBNx024841 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:48:11 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h560mB0N024837 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:48:11 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] drawterm strangeness Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:48:11 -0600 (MDT) I'm observing some strangeness in drawterm on Linux. I know it's not supported at all, but I'd like to take this out in the open, just in case somebody can think of an off-hand solution. It has to do with updating the image, but I'm not sure whether it's not related to Russ Cox' latency observation from few weeks ago: When displaying graphics-heavy programs under drawterm-linux I observe that the screen updates in bursts occuring exactly one second one after another. For example, dragging a new window (especially enlarging it rapidly) would result in the screen updating only a single, or at most two times per second. When running the same few draw()-intensive programs I measured the connection utilization to peak at 20mbit/s (100mbit link). Starting new programs to separate the load between them did not result in any increase in throughput to the linux box. The load on the server was not max-ed out, but the ethernet counters in 'stats' were. On the other hand an scp of a very large file resulted in transfer speeds of 97mbit/s (as measured on the Linux side). No writing or reading from disk was involved (writing same file to kfs instead of /dev/null or ramfs caused the transfer speed to drop down to 10-20mbit/s, but that's not an issue). I did the same test with Plan 9 running under vmware of the exact same hardware and observed the same behaviour. I do not observe this behaviour when connecting from a plan9 terminal or from the same vmware session. The reason I'm having trouble with this is that the brand spanking new cpu server is hardly usable with drawterm -- especially when heavy editing is involved.. thanx for any help with this: andrey ps: one suggestion I heard was to blame nagel's algorithm for this, but the 9fans archives suggest that plan9 doesn't do nagel at all... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 09:55:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 09:55:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8665 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 09:55:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8661 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 09:55:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 09:55:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D3DAA19AF6; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:55:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C25E919A89 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:54:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: Geoff Collyer To: 9fans@collyer.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] bitsy keyboard lag Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 17:54:15 -0700 The bitsy keyboard can't even keep up with my tapping. Is bitsy/keyboard really sending "top\n" to rio and sleeping for 100ms on failure, in a loop, for every button hit on the keyboard? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 10:04:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 10:04:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9321 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 10:04:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9314 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 10:04:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 10:04:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 35C9F19AF3; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:04:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (orthanc.ab.ca [216.123.230.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1080219A17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:03:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orthanc.ab.ca ([192.168.42.6]) by orthanc.ab.ca (8.12.6p2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h5613kv2056851 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 19:03:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Subject: Re: [9fans] ipaq installation changes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Lyndon Nerenberg To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <3EDFCA81.3000706@Princeton.EDU> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 19:03:45 -0600 On Thursday, June 5, 2003, at 04:56 PM, Martin Harriss wrote: > It's serial and USB. Somwhere (handhelds.org?) I found the pin out. > If it would help I can send it to you. Please put this information on the Wiki. --lyndon From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 10:09:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 10:09:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9621 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 10:09:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9617 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 10:09:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 10:09:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BA78C19AFA; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:09:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3F60C19ABA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:09:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28552 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:08:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5618x522739 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:08:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306060108.h5618x522739@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 05 Jun 2003 20:25:13 EDT." <13fe0dc8b3e09c208c83d277b439089b@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 21:08:59 -0400 > We don't zero pages till we're going to give them to another process. > If you want to feel safe after doing something really secret, I'ld recommend > power cycling at the least. So, my factotum isn't safe if it exits? Hmm.... > Choate is completely right here. Perhaps by accident. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 10:20:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 10:20:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10264 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 10:20:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10260 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 10:20:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 10:20:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4E02619A63; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:20:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 072C919ABA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:19:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: quux: guy steele's favorite word? From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s In-Reply-To: <200306060108.h5618x522739@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:19:25 -0400 The memory is cleaned before another process gets it but that could be too late in the presence of bugs. It wouldn't be too hard to zero them immediately, I probably should. Someone will notice that things get slower... Also, when you reboot your machine, with ctl-alt-del, factotum's pages are still sitting in memory somewhere. Someone can load their own kernel and look at the data. I should also change ctl-alt-del to zero out process memory before bringing the system down. Then there are still crashes... Even with all that, I'ld be happier if the BIOS or boot ROM zeroed all memory. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 10:23:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 10:23:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10380 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 10:23:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10376 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 10:23:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 10:23:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D89C19AFE; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:23:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs01-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.200]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CFDAC19AD1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:22:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <217117-19748>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:21:38 -0400 Message-ID: <006e01c32bc9$fa5e22c0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200306060108.h5618x522739@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 03:21:37 +0200 > So, my factotum isn't safe if it exits? Hmm.... well when i wrote a pop client daemon on lunix i hid the password in a pipe, that way it wouldn't turn up in a core dump [ok, there was a small window]. but, yeah, for a buncha high security applications you don't want the data on disk and you wanna blow its memory when they thing exits. security is always a trade off between what you want to protect and how much you wanna pay. obviously, a bunch of you know that ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 10:24:15 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 10:24:15 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10427 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 10:24:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10422 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 10:24:14 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 10:24:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5C62419B01; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:24:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D051E19AD1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:23:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <87d70c303e9937a31df0d42a47e708c9@collyer.net> From: Geoff Collyer To: 9fans@collyer.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] bitsy keyboard lag Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:23:57 -0700 [I sent this earlier but it doesn't seem to have gone through.] The bitsy keyboard can't even keep up with my tapping. Is bitsy/keyboard really sending "top\n" to rio and sleeping for 100ms on failure, in a loop, for every button hit on the keyboard? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 10:42:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 10:42:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11112 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 10:42:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11108 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 10:42:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 10:42:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 22AC119B05; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:42:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from Princeton.EDU (postoffice01.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.75]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D1BB519AF9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:41:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtpserver2.Princeton.EDU (smtpserver2.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.148]) by Princeton.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h561f4Vt003214 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:41:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Princeton.EDU (lane.Princeton.EDU [128.112.52.125]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtpserver2.Princeton.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h561f3gI014501 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:41:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3EDFF12F.3060002@Princeton.EDU> From: Martin Harriss User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ipaq installation changes References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 21:41:03 -0400 Lyndon Nerenberg wrote: > > On Thursday, June 5, 2003, at 04:56 PM, Martin Harriss wrote: > >> It's serial and USB. Somwhere (handhelds.org?) I found the pin out. >> If it would help I can send it to you. > > > Please put this information on the Wiki. > > --lyndon > To avoid running afoul of any possible copyright issues, I put a link to the IPAQ hardware info on the IPAQ page in the Wiki. The cradle pin-out info is near the bottom. Martin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 11:25:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 11:25:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13350 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 11:25:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13346 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 11:25:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 11:25:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F6E919B0B; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 22:25:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 74E3B19AD1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 22:24:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Jun 5 22:24:27 EDT 2003 Received: from 205.170.1.68 ([205.170.1.68]) by plan9; Thu Jun 5 22:24:24 EDT 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <200306060108.h5618x522739@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 22:24:37 -0400 >> Choate is completely right here. > > Perhaps by accident. You know, he's been reasonable recently. You're the one egging him on. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 11:41:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 11:41:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14291 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 11:41:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14287 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 11:41:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 11:41:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9892819B0F; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 22:41:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams004.ftl.affinity.com (lvs01-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.200]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 17D8419B03 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 22:40:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <230818-16143>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 22:39:47 -0400 Message-ID: <00b001c32bd4$e4bc1b60$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <87d70c303e9937a31df0d42a47e708c9@collyer.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] bitsy keyboard lag MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 04:39:45 +0200 it appalls me that i can out-type and out-mouse a 400Mhz Pentium II From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 12:01:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 12:01:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15314 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 12:01:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15310 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 12:01:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 12:01:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D4B019A89; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:01:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.188]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8996B19A17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:00:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-26-101.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.26.101 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 03:00:13 -0000 Message-ID: <3EE01177.1020503@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 22:58:47 -0500 > > >Also, when you reboot your machine, with ctl-alt-del, factotum's pages >are still sitting in memory somewhere. Someone can load their own kernel >and look at the data. I should also change ctl-alt-del to zero out process >memory before bringing the system down. Then there are still crashes... > This was my original point. Rebooting does nothing but obfuscate the issue to a slight extent. Memory leaks are a huge problem, but, can't be evaded by measures that dont cleanse memory in some fashion. As I'm sure we all know here, memory zero'd is pointless in situations where the physical hard- ware can be accessed (even remotely through the kernel or driver bugs, etc). With some slick I/O techniques, nulled memory can still be read for resonating patterns. The only real solution in secure clusters (or other situations) is to force the supervisor code to perform a NSA trusted random-pattern cleanse, or, something more paranoid. But, as is stated above, that doesn't eradicate the problem of crashes. I have some solutions I'm looking at in Autumn, but, the papers wont be out for a while. Though, it probably isn't anything the NIPR/NSA spooks haven't already done ;) Don http://deadchildren.org/~north_ > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 12:07:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 12:07:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15768 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 12:07:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15764 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 12:07:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 12:07:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0042719B12; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:07:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.185]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B642B19A17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:06:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-26-101.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.26.101 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 03:06:16 -0000 Message-ID: <3EE012E3.80108@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s References: <3EE01177.1020503@ameritech.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 23:04:51 -0500 > > >> Also, when you reboot your machine, with ctl-alt-del, factotum's pages >> are still sitting in memory somewhere. Someone can load their own >> kernel >> and look at the data. I should also change ctl-alt-del to zero out >> process >> memory before bringing the system down. Then there are still crashes... > Oh, I forgot to mention. Another thing is stale cluster connection hijacking. Just as in NFS, this tends to be a problem in cluster situations. Rebooting does a body good for this kind of issue, but, it sure as hell isn't the best answer. The protocols should be more wary, IM(not-so-humble)O. Don http://deadchildren.org/~north_ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 12:16:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 12:16:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16027 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 12:16:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16023 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 12:16:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 12:16:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3579219A96; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:16:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 904BB19B0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:15:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA14753 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:15:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h563FM523287 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:15:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306060315.h563FM523287@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 05 Jun 2003 22:24:37 EDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 23:15:22 -0400 "Russ Cox" writes: > >> Choate is completely right here. > > > > Perhaps by accident. > > You know, he's been reasonable recently. Given his track record, I'm confident he'll shatter that record soon. > You're the one egging him on. Perhaps. Maybe I just don't like being told to go read books I read five years ago. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 12:19:15 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 12:19:15 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16123 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 12:19:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16119 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 12:19:14 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 12:19:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7EBD819B19; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:19:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.180]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 69E6119B11 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:18:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-26-101.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.26.101 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 03:18:38 -0000 Message-ID: <3EE015C9.3000009@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s References: <200306060315.h563FM523287@augusta.math.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 23:17:13 -0500 > > >Maybe I just don't like being told to go read books I read >five years ago. > If you already read them, then, let your knowledge and actions prove it :). Unnecessary aggression proves nothing and negates everything... "What do you care what other people think" - you know who Don > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 12:34:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 12:34:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16606 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 12:34:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16602 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 12:34:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 12:34:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 230CD19B1B; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:34:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A378719B13 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:33:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA17039 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:33:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h563Xl523511 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:33:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306060333.h563Xl523511@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 05 Jun 2003 23:17:13 CDT." <3EE015C9.3000009@ameritech.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 23:33:47 -0400 northern snowfall writes: > If you already read them, then, let your knowledge and actions > prove it :). Unnecessary aggression proves nothing and negates > everything... > > "What do you care what other people think" - you know who All right, all right, all right; I get the picture. I'll stop antagonizing Choate. What can I say? It's been a rough few days. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 12:42:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 12:42:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16966 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 12:42:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16942 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 12:42:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 12:42:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DD01419B11; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:42:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EB4D919A17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:41:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h563fYHM028163 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:41:34 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h563fYj6019139 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:41:34 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s In-Reply-To: <3EE01177.1020503@ameritech.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:41:34 -0600 (MDT) And, to add to the stew, you guys are all focusing on the 'is memory clean' issue, and there are more general issues involved here. So, back to the original issue, which is that sometimes you really do want to reboot after every app :-) ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 12:48:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 12:48:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17179 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 12:48:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17175 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 12:48:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 12:48:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 19D2B19B23; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:48:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.181]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 61CE019B20 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:47:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-26-101.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.26.101 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 03:47:08 -0000 Message-ID: <3EE01C76.4060601@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s References: <200306060333.h563Xl523511@augusta.math.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 23:45:42 -0500 > > >All right, all right, all right; I get the picture. I'll stop antagonizing >Choate. What can I say? It's been a rough few days. > Well I'll raise a glass to that, Dan. Cheers to a better tomorrow, and many more to come. Don http://deadchildren.org/~north_ > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 12:52:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 12:52:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17373 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 12:52:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17369 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 12:52:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 12:52:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 471BE19B26; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:52:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs01-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.200]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6CD7419B13 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:51:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557355-31776>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:51:30 -0400 Message-ID: <00ca01c32bde$e94ede60$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200306060315.h563FM523287@augusta.math.psu.edu> <3EE015C9.3000009@ameritech.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 05:51:28 +0200 > "What do you care what other people think" - you know who Feynman From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 14:47:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 14:47:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22392 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 14:47:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22385 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 14:47:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 14:47:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D53419B17; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 01:47:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D1BCC199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 01:46:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA04067 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 01:46:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h565k7524011 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 01:46:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306060546.h565k7524011@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 05 Jun 2003 23:45:42 CDT." <3EE01C76.4060601@ameritech.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 01:46:07 -0400 > Well I'll raise a glass to that, Dan. Cheers to a better tomorrow, and > many more to come. Thanks Don, that's very kind of you. > http://deadchildren.org/~north_ However, I have to say, that's a rather morbid domainname.... :-) - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 15:25:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 15:25:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24780 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 15:25:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24773 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 15:25:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 15:25:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 992C719B2C; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 02:25:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7CDB519A85 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 02:24:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Jun 6 02:24:38 EDT 2003 Received: from 205.170.1.68 ([205.170.1.68]) by plan9; Fri Jun 6 02:24:35 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <599ac5bac00ad3dde089ea36e02bc81e@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm strangeness From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 02:24:48 -0400 > ps: one suggestion I heard was to blame nagel's algorithm for this, but the > 9fans archives suggest that plan9 doesn't do nagel at all... yes but linux might be delaying the responses. make sure the devip-unix.c you are using says something about TCP_NODELAY. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 17:50:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 17:50:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30960 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 17:50:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30955 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 17:50:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 17:50:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F40AE19B2E; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 04:50:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.180]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id CD53319A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 04:49:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-26-101.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.26.101 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 08:49:34 -0000 Message-ID: <3EE06357.4030904@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s References: <200306060546.h565k7524011@augusta.math.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 04:48:07 -0500 > > >>http://deadchildren.org/~north_ >> >However, I have to say, that's a rather morbid domainname.... :-) > Quite so, but with reason. It doesn't represent a somatic death , but rather the death of spirit. The Dead Children's Society is a charity organization that benefits people in my 'extended family' that have made choices which alienate them from their concept of family. Dead Children is a way of helping those that refuse to help themselves, but in a very covert way. It doesn't give hand-outs, but, creates situations for the target individual in which they are still given a choice to help themselves, or to not. I believe the only true charity is the charity that allows an individual to choose a more positive road. I do not believe in feeding a man for a day. The Blessed Children's Society, does not give hand-outs either. Rather, it gives opportunity of a different kind. Funds from the extended family is pooled in such a way as none of the donators may make a withdrawal. Individuals given donations are the youth of the extended family that prove their interest in the family to be true with hard work and play, either in their respective schooling or through independent study. Though, recipients still do not *know* about the donations. They just happen. All 'board' members of each society are silent members. We are somewhat modeled after the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation[1] and, to a lesser extent, the Charles Stewart Mott Foundation[2]; both of which, we believe, had a very solid hand in shaping (and possibly saving) both our youth and our future. Hopefully, with hard work and perseverance, we will make opportunities for the youth to come that shapes their future for the better, helping to perpetuate the cycle of strong family values and a universally equality conscious society. Don [1] John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation http://www.macfound.org [2] Charles Stewart Mott Foundation http://www.mott.org http://deadchildren.org/~north_ > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 18:15:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 18:15:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31693 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 18:15:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31688 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 18:15:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 18:15:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5A50D19B31; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 05:15:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5B34E19A7A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 05:14:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19ODGw-0002yH-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 06 Jun 2003 10:12:30 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Anthony Mandic Message-ID: <3EE02A6A.A775C807@hotmail.com> Organization: Mandic Consulting Pty. Ltd. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <87d70c303e9937a31df0d42a47e708c9@collyer.net>, <00b001c32bd4$e4bc1b60$e3944251@insultant.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] bitsy keyboard lag Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:12:27 GMT "boyd, rounin" wrote: > > it appalls me that i can out-type and out-mouse a 400Mhz Pentium II I fail to see what you're complaining about. I'm typing this on a 2.53GHz P4 running XP and its a crock. -am © 2003 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 18:15:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 18:15:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31705 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 18:15:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31701 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 18:15:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 18:15:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2E8EE19B36; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 05:15:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9F7E819B28 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 05:14:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19ODGw-0002yB-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 06 Jun 2003 10:12:30 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "news.verizon.net" Message-ID: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Subject: [9fans] fd0!dos not a FAT filesystem? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:12:15 GMT Floppy images I downloaded in the past couple of days produce the subject diagnostic right after finding the 53C810 SCSI adapter (I also have IDE disks). I have both 3.5" floppy drives attached. The images have passed Windows CheckDisk testing etc. So how can I get Plan 9 installed? Do I have to unplug a floppy drive or what? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 18:15:56 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 18:15:56 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31718 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 18:15:55 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31714 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 18:15:55 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 18:15:55 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 187E019B38; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 05:15:22 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 95D9919A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 05:14:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19ODGw-0002y5-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 06 Jun 2003 10:12:30 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Hagen Paul Pfeifer Message-ID: Organization: T-Online Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] Dual Boot: OpenBSD <=> Plan9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:12:02 GMT Hello, I have a question about dual boot. It is possibly to boot via the bootloader grub and what are the parameter in menu.lst to start plan9? Any hint's? It's also possibly for me to switch to lilo! Can anyone post some examples, I didn't found stuff in the net. Hagen From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 19:09:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 19:09:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 558 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 19:09:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 554 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 19:09:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 19:09:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7FDF419B37; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 06:09:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from hamnavoe (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D8F5919A17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 06:08:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9e1fa734d8118379ddd074808f911437@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Dual Boot: OpenBSD <=> Plan9 From: Richard Miller In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:08:40 +0100 > I have a question about dual boot. It is possibly to boot via the > bootloader grub and what are the parameter in menu.lst to start plan9? Yes, e.g. if partition 5 (numbering from 0) of drive 0 is a dos or 9fat partition containing 9load and plan9.ini, with /386/pbs or /386/pbslba in the partition's boot block, you can use a menu entry like this: title = Plan9 root = (hd0,5) chainloader = +1 -- Richard From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 19:10:15 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 19:10:15 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 577 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 19:10:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 573 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 19:10:14 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 19:10:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC03F19B3D; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 06:10:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from larch (unknown [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3BB3319B33 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 06:09:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <21b7ffa15ae6142112ceb52f117bfc36@snellwilcox.com> From: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fd0!dos not a FAT filesystem? In-Reply-To: <3523931878@snellwilcox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-wbicnbvzazbjeaisqwqjhalcjt" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:09:49 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-wbicnbvzazbjeaisqwqjhalcjt Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi. I just downloaded a boot floppy to install another machine last night and it booted fine, so I don't think the install floppy is broken. However I have seen funnies in tha past with floppies not being recognised - usually with very old hardware, perhaps one of the floppy timeouts is a bit conservative? Just guessing... -Steve --upas-wbicnbvzazbjeaisqwqjhalcjt Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 10:12:15 +0100 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu bcc: "Steve Simon" From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sender: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Importance: normal Priority: normal Subject: [9fans] fd0!dos not a FAT filesystem? Message-Id: <3523931878@snellwilcox.com> X-MIME-Engine: v0.90 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Id: <3523931878-1@snellwilcox.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Floppy images I downloaded in the past couple of days produce the subject diagnostic right after finding the 53C810 SCSI adapter (I also have IDE disks). I have both 3.5" floppy drives attached. The images have passed Windows CheckDisk testing etc. So how can I get Plan 9 installed? Do I have to unplug a floppy drive or what? --upas-wbicnbvzazbjeaisqwqjhalcjt-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 19:14:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 19:14:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 642 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 19:14:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 638 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 19:14:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 19:14:43 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4807C19B3F; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 06:14:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EE5DB19B30 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 06:13:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19ODzx-0003ZH-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 06 Jun 2003 10:59:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EE060D3.307@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20030605013240.33002.qmail@web40413.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Chaos anyone? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:58:17 GMT A. Baker wrote: > Bodacion's Hydra server uses biomorphic mathematics -- > a derivative of Chaos Theory used to model the random > growth of living things -- to generate series of > pattern-less numbers that cannot be deciphered by > hackers, even if they possess the basic mathematical > formula, Uner told NewsFactor. No two Hydra users ever > receive the same session ID, customer ID, order ID, or > any other digital identification. Nor will any hacker > be able to discern a pattern and predict the next > number, Uner added." In sci.crypt we call this "Snake Oil". From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 19:17:16 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 19:17:16 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 680 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 19:17:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 676 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 19:17:14 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 19:17:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 86E6D19B40; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 06:17:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 131D119A82 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 06:16:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-26-101.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.26.101 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 10:16:44 -0000 Message-ID: <3EE077C6.3050304@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Chaos anyone? References: <20030605013240.33002.qmail@web40413.mail.yahoo.com> <3EE060D3.307@null.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 06:15:18 -0500 > > >> Bodacion's Hydra ... > > In sci.crypt we call this "Snake Oil". Maybe thats why it's called hydra... :) > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 19:20:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 19:20:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 758 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 19:20:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 754 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 19:20:15 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 19:20:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4E5E819B43; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 06:20:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3CF4A19B42 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 06:19:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h56ADBnp017567 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:13:13 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h56AD4NN017566 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:13:04 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Chaos anyone? Message-ID: <20030606121258.F13660@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030605013240.33002.qmail@web40413.mail.yahoo.com> <3EE060D3.307@null.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <3EE060D3.307@null.net>; from Douglas A. Gwyn on Fri, Jun 06, 2003 at 09:58:17AM +0000 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:12:59 +0200 On Fri, Jun 06, 2003 at 09:58:17AM +0000, Douglas A. Gwyn wrote: > > A. Baker wrote: > > Bodacion's Hydra server uses biomorphic mathematics -- > > a derivative of Chaos Theory used to model the random > > growth of living things -- to generate series of > > pattern-less numbers that cannot be deciphered by > > hackers, even if they possess the basic mathematical > > formula, Uner told NewsFactor. No two Hydra users ever > > receive the same session ID, customer ID, order ID, or > > any other digital identification. Nor will any hacker > > be able to discern a pattern and predict the next > > number, Uner added." > > In sci.crypt we call this "Snake Oil". "Obfuscation with intent to deceive" would be a good legal description, to my mind. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 19:23:16 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 19:23:16 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 962 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 19:23:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 958 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 19:23:15 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 19:23:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1C56019A93; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 06:23:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.147]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 03B6919B45 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 06:22:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.140]) by mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20030606102257.NMUI5863.mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 22:22:57 +1200 Received: from [210.54.70.25] by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20030606102256.NGQK5069.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.54.70.25]> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 22:22:56 +1200 X-Sender: xtr17008101@pop3.xtra.co.nz (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Andrew Simmons Subject: [9fans] Chaos anyone? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 22:20:32 +1200 > Bodacion's Hydra server uses biomorphic mathematics -- > a derivative of Chaos Theory used to model the random > growth of living things -- to generate series of > pattern-less numbers that cannot be deciphered by > hackers, even if they possess the basic mathematical > formula, Uner told NewsFactor. No two Hydra users ever > receive the same session ID, customer ID, order ID, or > any other digital identification. Nor will any hacker > be able to discern a pattern and predict the next > number, Uner added." >In sci.crypt we call this "Snake Oil". In New Zealand, we call this "Complete and Utter Bollocks" From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 20:32:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 20:32:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2206 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 20:32:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2202 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 20:32:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 20:32:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7ACEF19B39; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:32:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1CB6319A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:31:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h56BaBe28622 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 06:36:11 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Re: some #s Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 06:36:11 -0500 (CDT) On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, ron minnich wrote: > And, to add to the stew, you guys are all focusing on the 'is memory > clean' issue, and there are more general issues involved here. > > So, back to the original issue, which is that sometimes you really do want > to reboot after every app :-) Specious distinction. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 20:58:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 20:58:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2578 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 20:58:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2574 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 20:58:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 20:58:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 387C719B32; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:58:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EC1E019A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:57:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h56C1o428837 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:01:50 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Re: some #s Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:01:50 -0500 (CDT) On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, David Presotto wrote: > Even with all that, I'ld be happier if the BIOS or boot ROM zeroed > all memory. Contact your BIOS vendor and ask about a security release that replaces the simple memory check with a memory walker (ala Barber Pole) or burn your own BIOS. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 21:04:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 21:04:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2678 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 21:04:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2674 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 21:04:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 21:04:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 530E119AA5; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:04:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9CE5A19B21 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:03:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: quux: guy steele's favorite word? From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-aewueqjtwmjiqxgbkewhchiyfb" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:02:59 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-aewueqjtwmjiqxgbkewhchiyfb Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've already done that. My meaning was only that I wished it were actually a universal feature. Most people, faced with the possibility of turning on a feature might do it. Make them burn a BIOS on a system and its unlikely they'll ever bother; too scarey and too much of a pain. --upas-aewueqjtwmjiqxgbkewhchiyfb Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Jun 6 07:58:21 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Fri Jun 6 07:58:18 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 052BD19B2A; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:58:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EC1E019A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:57:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h56C1o428837 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:01:50 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Re: some #s Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:01:50 -0500 (CDT) On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, David Presotto wrote: > Even with all that, I'ld be happier if the BIOS or boot ROM zeroed > all memory. Contact your BIOS vendor and ask about a security release that replaces the simple memory check with a memory walker (ala Barber Pole) or burn your own BIOS. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- --upas-aewueqjtwmjiqxgbkewhchiyfb-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 22:06:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 22:06:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3680 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 22:06:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3676 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 22:06:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 22:06:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0F52619B33; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:06:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3DB9719A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:05:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h56C8FG4031994 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:08:20 -0400 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Dual Boot: OpenBSD <=> Plan9 In-Reply-To: <9e1fa734d8118379ddd074808f911437@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:08:15 -0400 (EDT) > Yes, e.g. if partition 5 (numbering from 0) of drive 0 is a dos or 9fat > partition containing 9load and plan9.ini, with /386/pbs or /386/pbslba > in the partition's boot block, you can use a menu entry like this: Best to go with pbslba. Having set up a dual boot with Plan 9 & linux, as well as freebsd & plan 9, I can say they both required it. Perhaps it's something characteristic of how I partition the drive. In any event, the wiki has helpful instructions in the troubleshooting/lilo section. Cheers, Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 22:38:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 22:38:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4196 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 22:38:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4192 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 22:38:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 22:38:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 12B6419B3C; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:38:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (mail.math.Princeton.EDU [128.112.18.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9FF0B19AAE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:37:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.Princeton.EDU (math.Princeton.EDU [128.112.18.16]) by Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h56DbZk24445 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:37:35 -0400 Received: from math.Princeton.EDU (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by math.Princeton.EDU (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h56DbZF15928 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:37:35 -0400 Message-Id: <200306061337.h56DbZF15928@math.Princeton.EDU> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fd0!dos not a FAT filesystem? From: John Stalker Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 09:37:34 -0400 I also have a machine where plan9 produces this message during (attempted) install. The funny thing is I once installed plan9 on the same machine with the same floppy drive, so I know the hardware hasn't changed. That was also 4th edition and I doubt the floppy driver code changes much, so I would guess the software hasn't changed either. No other OS has ever had a problem with this drive. I didn't investigate much, but I did think about--and fail to try--the following solutions: 1) Swap floppy drives. 2) Put a spare hard drive into another machine where I have a working plan9, duplicate the installation, adjust for the video card and partitioning differences, and then move the hard drive over. 3) Install to a file using bochs under FreeBSD on the same machine, and then dd the file to a partition on the hard disk. I actually got fairly far along in this one. The install floppy causes an exception in bochs and bochs offers to die. If you decide to ignore the exception then everything is fine, except that the video card is not recognized--no surprise--so you need to do a text install. This would presumably work better in vmware, but I am too cheap to buy it. Bochs is painfully slow. My 800MHz K7 acts like a 4MHz Pentium. For this reason I gave up in mid-install, but I believe it would have worked, if I had been more patient. 4) Debug the floppy driver. This would have been hard both because I don't really know what I'm doing and because you are at such an early stage in the bootstrap that there are no tools available. One final thought: Maybe the hardware isn't exactly the same as when I installed successfully. I have an SCSI adapter on the machine. That hasn't changed. I do have a new SCSI hard disk, though. It's a long shot, but you might try pulling the adapter and seeing if plan9 can now read the floppy. If that works please let me know. -- John Stalker Department of Mathematics Princeton University (609)258-6469 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 22:42:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 22:42:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4302 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 22:42:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4298 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 22:42:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 22:42:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 43C1519B47; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:42:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B2CAA19A17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:41:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bitsy panics From: Sape Mullender From: sape@plan9.bell-labs.com In-Reply-To: <33ce554b6927ec6c315f86c7933e034d@collyer.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:41:17 -0400 >I reproduced the acme and timesync panics and this time captured the >(wonderfully garbled) serial console output, enclosed below. >acme panic: >--- >kernel fault: >type 0x00000018 psr 0x20000013 pc 0xc006611c > The pc in both panics appears to be in freeb(). Looks like your block pointer b is not pointing to a block. To see where freeb was called, get the stack dump `c0779348=c0037228 ...' into an acme and run Edit ,s/c[0-9a-f]+=([0-9a-f]+)( |\n)+/src\(0x\1\)\n/g Then feed what you get through acid From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 7 00:24:57 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 7 00:24:57 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5651 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Jun 2003 00:24:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5647 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2003 00:24:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Jun 2003 00:24:45 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C102719A17; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:24:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EFBC419AAE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:23:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4afa5a2591051e5f5bf833735cd263e9@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] leaks? From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 16:26:32 +0100 > I've been monitoring the memory usage in our file server and it seems > to steadily increase. This script shows the growing memory usage from > our last reboot (but it seems to keep on growing according to the > records for other periods of (up)time). the increases are 4% (venti) and 0.1% (fossil) over 4 days. does it keep growing at that rate? might it just be heap fragmentation? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 7 00:31:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 7 00:31:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5744 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Jun 2003 00:31:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5740 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2003 00:31:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Jun 2003 00:31:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 38EDE19AC2; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:31:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1285519A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:30:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: Fco.J.Ballesteros To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] leaks? In-Reply-To: <4afa5a2591051e5f5bf833735cd263e9@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-blalsjrotczepezvohifwvctpe" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 17:30:51 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-blalsjrotczepezvohifwvctpe Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, it keeps growing. And it could indeed be fragmentation; I didnt trace the problem. thanks --upas-blalsjrotczepezvohifwvctpe Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Fri Jun 6 17:24:53 MDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C102719A17; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:24:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EFBC419AAE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:23:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4afa5a2591051e5f5bf833735cd263e9@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] leaks? From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 16:26:32 +0100 > I've been monitoring the memory usage in our file server and it seems > to steadily increase. This script shows the growing memory usage from > our last reboot (but it seems to keep on growing according to the > records for other periods of (up)time). the increases are 4% (venti) and 0.1% (fossil) over 4 days. does it keep growing at that rate? might it just be heap fragmentation? --upas-blalsjrotczepezvohifwvctpe-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 7 00:46:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 7 00:46:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5983 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Jun 2003 00:46:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5979 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2003 00:46:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Jun 2003 00:46:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6440C199B3; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:46:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cleese.nas.com (cleese.nas.com [198.182.207.3]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D7DE319A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:45:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (cleese.nas.com [198.182.207.3]) by cleese.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AC5936427 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:45:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Jack Johnson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s In-Reply-To: <13fe0dc8b3e09c208c83d277b439089b@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:45:51 -0700 (PDT) On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, David Presotto wrote: > We don't zero pages till we're going to give them to another process. > If you want to feel safe after doing something really secret, I'ld recommend > power cycling at the least. Choate is completely right here. As long as we're playing the game.... Assuming you were sharing a host (knowingly or otherwise) with someone who could accomplish the task, would there be a semi-convenient way to detect someone combing through your dead pages? Like an IDS for memory? -Jack From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 7 00:52:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 7 00:52:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6045 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Jun 2003 00:52:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6041 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2003 00:52:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Jun 2003 00:52:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F0AD719AAE; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:52:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from thefrayedknot.armory.com (thefrayedknot.armory.com [192.122.209.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C5B8319A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:51:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 11011 invoked by uid 1000); 6 Jun 2003 15:51:55 -0000 From: Andrew To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fd0!dos not a FAT filesystem? Message-ID: <20030606155155.GA3287@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:51:55 -0700 I had a similiar problem, turned out to be the floppy disk i was using. I used a new boot disk and everything was fine. On Fri, Jun 06, 2003 at 09:12:15AM +0000, news.verizon.net wrote: > Floppy images I downloaded in the past couple of days produce the subject > diagnostic right after finding the 53C810 SCSI adapter (I also have IDE > disks). I have both 3.5" floppy drives attached. The images have passed > Windows CheckDisk testing etc. > So how can I get Plan 9 installed? Do I have to unplug a floppy drive or > what? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 7 00:58:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 7 00:58:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6119 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Jun 2003 00:58:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6115 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2003 00:58:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Jun 2003 00:58:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E9E119B51; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:58:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cleese.nas.com (cleese.nas.com [198.182.207.3]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CFFB219B50 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:56:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (cleese.nas.com [198.182.207.3]) by cleese.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1096236447 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:56:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Jack Johnson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Dual Boot: OpenBSD <=> Plan9 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:56:40 -0700 (PDT) On Fri, 6 Jun 2003, Hagen Paul Pfeifer wrote: > Any hint's? Smart Boot Manager is a great little utility: http://btmgr.sourceforge.net/ -Jack From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 7 02:14:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 7 02:14:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7122 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Jun 2003 02:14:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7118 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2003 02:14:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Jun 2003 02:14:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 47FE119A00; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:14:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from serio.al.rim.or.jp (serio.al.rim.or.jp [202.247.191.123]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 262BB199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:13:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail5.rim.or.jp by serio.al.rim.or.jp (3.7W/HMX-13) id CAA15974 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 02:13:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from banten_lin.private (flets2134.t3.rim.or.jp [202.247.154.134]) by mail5.rim.or.jp (8.9.3/3.7W) id CAA00836 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 02:13:28 +0900 (JST) From: Kiyoshi MATSUI To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Cannot boot with kfs error Message-Id: <20030607021337.0e381ce3.kmatsui@t3.rim.or.jp> In-Reply-To: <20030505005647.6015e0ce.kmatsui@t3.rim.or.jp> References: <20030430160006.21083.98722.Mailman@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu> <20030501230715.551fdc8a.kmatsui@t3.rim.or.jp> <3EB250A7.8030506@plan9.escet.urjc.es> <20030505005647.6015e0ce.kmatsui@t3.rim.or.jp> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.4 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-vine-linux) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 02:13:37 +0900 A sequel to the story of kfs i/o error at Plan9 bootstrap. I upgraded the machine, including CPU (K6/200MHz => AthlonXP/2.0GHz), motherboard and memory. I added a new IDE hard drive. I am still using, however, the old ncr53C875 SCSI card. I tried again to install Plan9 on one of the SCSI drives only to get again the kfs i/o error at booting. Then I installed on the IDE drive. Plan9 booted successfully! Maybe my SCSI system has some instabilities. Maybe the Plan9's SCSI driver has some short-comings to cope with the problem? Anyway, I can use Plan9 now. A problem, however, remains -- long pause of 10 minutes in booting process. I have edited /rc/bin/termrc as follows. *************** *** 53,59 **** case NCR* 'AT&TNSX'* generic* _MP_* 'alpha apc'* for(i in H w f t m v L S P U '$' $BN#(B) /bin/bind -a '#'^$i /dev >/dev/null >[2=1] ! for(disk in /dev/sd??) { if(test -f $disk/data && test -f $disk/ctl) disk/fdisk -p $disk/data >$disk/ctl >[2]/dev/null for(part in $disk/plan9*) --- 53,61 ---- case NCR* 'AT&TNSX'* generic* _MP_* 'alpha apc'* for(i in H w f t m v L S P U '$' $BN#(B) /bin/bind -a '#'^$i /dev >/dev/null >[2=1] ! echo 'testing /dev/sdC?' # [1] Appears promptly ! for(disk in /dev/sdC?) { ! echo testing $disk # [2] Appears 10 minutes later if(test -f $disk/data && test -f $disk/ctl) disk/fdisk -p $disk/data >$disk/ctl >[2]/dev/null for(part in $disk/plan9*) *************** [1] appears promptly, but [2] appears 10 minutes later. Why? When I edited the '/dev/sdC?' to '/dev/sdC0', rio started promptly and the screen went black out displaying only an arrow cursor. Why? The machine has only one IDE drive i.e. /dev/sdC0, neither /dev/sdC1 nor /dev/sdC2. Whether probe ethernet or not makes little difference of 10 minutes pause. Speed of CPU also makes little difference. Anyway, I am used to wait Plan9's bootstrap reading the Plan9 documents on another machine's Linux. kmatsui From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 7 03:36:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 7 03:36:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8125 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Jun 2003 03:36:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8121 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2003 03:36:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Jun 2003 03:36:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9BD7E19ABB; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:36:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com (sj-core-1.cisco.com [171.71.177.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4855819AA8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:35:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chasw2k02 (dhcp-128-107-150-49.cisco.com [128.107.150.49]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h56IZAms015597 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:35:11 -0700 (PDT) From: "Charles Smith (chas)" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: RE: [9fans] Dual Boot: OpenBSD <=> Plan9 Keywords: External Message-ID: <000001c32c5a$5cbdb080$31966b80@amer.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:35:10 -0700 I use Bootit NG on all of my Terminals (Tecra 8000 Laptop & 2 Desktop PC's) & Auth/CPU Server (Dell Poweredge 2200 (single CPU at the moment) with Images for Plan 9 , Free BSD & XP on all. My File Server is a standalone floppy boot (Dell Dimension with Intel 100B Ethernet, LSI Logic Controller & 2 x 10Gb SCSI & 2 x 80Gb IDE as pseudo-worm). http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/bootitng.html I had a LOT of pain before I got this tool in that I could not get a Plan9 standalone install to operate on the Tecra, let alone dual boot with fdisk. My 11yr & 15yr old daughters mostly boot FreeBSD but I am getting them "gently" into Plan9. They refuse to move untill there is a Web Browser and the concepts in the rio interface are a bit "out there" for them at the moment. Well as it is they have achieved top marks in Geekdom at their schools for running FreeBSD as their desktop. A comment from my 15 year old this-morning was "Boy dad nethack is such a cool game!", it brought a tear to my eye and I am one PROUD DAD :) Now I just have to get my wife off of that bloody MAC and my 17 year old boy off of that bloody XP and there will be harmony in the house again :) Chas -----Original Message----- From: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu [mailto:9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu] On Behalf Of Jack Johnson Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 8:57 AM To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Dual Boot: OpenBSD <=> Plan9 On Fri, 6 Jun 2003, Hagen Paul Pfeifer wrote: > Any hint's? Smart Boot Manager is a great little utility: http://btmgr.sourceforge.net/ -Jack From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 7 06:36:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 7 06:36:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9876 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Jun 2003 06:36:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9872 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2003 06:36:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Jun 2003 06:36:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 094C719A91; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 17:36:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 41E4C199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 17:35:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h56LW8Nx031575 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 15:32:08 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h56LW8OQ031571 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 15:32:08 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm strangeness In-Reply-To: <599ac5bac00ad3dde089ea36e02bc81e@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 15:32:07 -0600 (MDT) You were completely right -- linux' nagel was delaying it. Apparently the binary I was using wasn't compiled with TCP_NODELAY. In FreeBSD there's a sysctl to turn Nagel off, but not in Linsux. I recompiled drawterm with TCP_NODELAY in and the speed went up to 50mbit/s with very smooth display of images, scrolling and the like. Here's a buglet for drawterm if you're interested (compiled on Linux/RH8.0/2.4.20/gcc3.2): - ifdef-ed "#include " in devip-unix.c (that's where TCP_NODELAY is defined now for Linux) - mk 'CONF=Linux' would not succeed because of unresolved symbols. It needs '-ldl -lpthread' now to compile. - interestingly enough mk 'CONF=FreeBSD' works just fine in Linux, (apart from the fact that linux/tcp.h needs to be in devip-unix.c) - doprint.c:530 -- change to: rune = (Rune)va_arg(*arg, unsigned int); reason: va_arg() doesn't accept shorts as the second argument anymore. cheers: andrey On Fri, 6 Jun 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > yes but linux might be delaying the responses. > make sure the devip-unix.c you are using says > something about TCP_NODELAY. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 7 07:58:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 7 07:58:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10686 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Jun 2003 07:58:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10682 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2003 07:58:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Jun 2003 07:58:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E1F72199B6; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 18:58:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 945F719A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 18:57:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp ([61.211.130.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 7 07:57:15 JST 2003 Subject: Re: [9fans] Dual Boot: OpenBSD <=> Plan9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <3723BBA2-9872-11D7-A8B0-000393A941BC@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 07:57:14 +0900 Hello, I love OS independent boot manage. I am using MBM(Multiple Boot Manage). Have a look: http://elm-chan.org/fsw/mbm/mbm_e.html Kenji Arisawa From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 7 08:03:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 7 08:03:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10727 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Jun 2003 08:03:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10723 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2003 08:03:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Jun 2003 08:03:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A6AC719AD3; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 19:03:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs01-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.200]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3DB1D19ACC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 19:02:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <217714-1045>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 19:01:35 -0400 Message-ID: <006101c32c7f$93307100$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3723BBA2-9872-11D7-A8B0-000393A941BC@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp> Subject: Re: [9fans] Dual Boot: OpenBSD <=> Plan9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 01:01:32 +0200 whatever you do, don't get that lunix grub on your disk -- ouch! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 7 08:40:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 7 08:40:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11137 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Jun 2003 08:40:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11133 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2003 08:40:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Jun 2003 08:40:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7AE4819ADD; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 19:40:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ophiopogon.tommyk.com (unknown [204.60.70.245]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4E520199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 19:39:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tommyk.com (miscanthus.jasongurtz.com [65.172.152.16]) by ophiopogon.tommyk.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h56NdPCc014099 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 19:39:25 -0400 Message-ID: <3EE12621.2040008@tommyk.com> From: Jason Gurtz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4b) Gecko/20030521 Thunderbird/0.1a X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Dual Boot: OpenBSD <=> Plan9 References: <3723BBA2-9872-11D7-A8B0-000393A941BC@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp> <006101c32c7f$93307100$e3944251@insultant.net> In-Reply-To: <006101c32c7f$93307100$e3944251@insultant.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.33 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 19:39:13 -0400 boyd, rounin wrote: > whatever you do, don't get that lunix grub on your disk -- ouch! In theory the fdisk from http://www.23cc.com/free-fdisk/ used with /mbr could clean that up. Oh wow, looks like it will even write an mbr to/from a file now. Cool. Cheers, ~Jason -- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 7 09:09:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 7 09:09:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11784 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Jun 2003 09:09:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11780 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2003 09:09:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Jun 2003 09:09:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1CA2C19AE5; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 20:09:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs01-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.200]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 17C5619AD7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 20:08:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557378-25358>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 20:07:16 -0400 Message-ID: <00d501c32c88$c06ab960$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3723BBA2-9872-11D7-A8B0-000393A941BC@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp> <006101c32c7f$93307100$e3944251@insultant.net> <3EE12621.2040008@tommyk.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Dual Boot: OpenBSD <=> Plan9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 02:07:13 +0200 > In theory the fdisk from http://www.23cc.com/free-fdisk/ used with /mbr format the whole thing and restart. that's the cool thing about vaios (amongst others) is that the reinstallation disks put the machine back into a known state; no more MBR etc and it's real quick. then restore from optical media and you're back up in < 1 hour. they also handle being dropped on the floor pretty well too :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 7 10:08:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 7 10:08:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13337 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Jun 2003 10:08:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13333 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2003 10:08:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Jun 2003 10:08:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4517719AE8; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 21:08:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 19C2C1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 21:07:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Jun 6 21:07:02 EDT 2003 Received: from 205.170.1.68 ([205.170.1.68]) by plan9; Fri Jun 6 21:06:59 EDT 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Dual Boot: OpenBSD <=> Plan9 From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <3EE12621.2040008@tommyk.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 21:07:13 -0400 > In theory the fdisk from http://www.23cc.com/free-fdisk/ used with /mbr > could clean that up. Oh wow, looks like it will even write an mbr > to/from a file now. Cool. Or just run Smart Boot Manager from a floppy and install it onto the MBR. Or Plan 9's disk/mbr -m /386/mbr /dev/sdC0/data. (Or to copy to a file, dd -count 1 mbr.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 7 14:09:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 7 14:09:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19082 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Jun 2003 14:09:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19078 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2003 14:09:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Jun 2003 14:09:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B426919A76; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 01:09:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mx2.net.titech.ac.jp (mx2.net.titech.ac.jp [131.112.125.31]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 7816119A76 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 01:08:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 60088 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2003 05:08:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vc2.net.titech.ac.jp) (131.112.125.36) by mx2.net.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Jun 2003 05:08:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO o.cc.titech.ac.jp) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 7 Jun 2003 05:08:01 -0000 Received: from p9t by mail-o.cc.titech.ac.jp (8.11.3/1.1.10.5/20Feb97-0455PM) id h5757wx445235; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 14:08:00 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <72980b1b3b853dc310fdcacaa3ffafad@orthanc.cc.titech.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: YAMANASHI Takeshi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Plan 9 wiki top page Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 14:01:32 +0900 Some unfriendly user ruined Plan9 Wiki top page. I restored it to that of http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/plan_9_wiki/1054864550 It was like this: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/plan_9_wiki/1054945587 -- YAMANASHI Takeshi From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 7 14:13:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 7 14:13:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19151 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Jun 2003 14:13:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19147 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2003 14:13:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Jun 2003 14:13:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A5A0819999; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 01:13:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs01-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.200]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A23AD19999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 01:12:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557190-20448>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 01:12:51 -0400 Message-ID: <019601c32cb3$6ffb1580$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <72980b1b3b853dc310fdcacaa3ffafad@orthanc.cc.titech.ac.jp> Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 wiki top page MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 07:12:47 +0200 arigatou gozaimasu From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 7 14:34:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 7 14:34:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19402 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Jun 2003 14:34:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19398 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2003 14:34:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Jun 2003 14:34:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4064119AD4; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 01:34:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1A6441998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 01:33:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h575TmNx031965 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 23:29:48 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h575Tmvh031961 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 23:29:48 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 wiki top page In-Reply-To: <72980b1b3b853dc310fdcacaa3ffafad@orthanc.cc.titech.ac.jp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 23:29:48 -0600 (MDT) *** lil_crap [rubadub@P211018234146.ppp.prin.ne.jp] *** ircname : rubadub *** server : irc.homelien.no [Who Cares] the only person with the same ISP as the culprit on #klined on efnet... kids :) On Sat, 7 Jun 2003, YAMANASHI Takeshi wrote: > Some unfriendly user ruined Plan9 Wiki top page. > I restored it to that of > http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/plan_9_wiki/1054864550 > > It was like this: > http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/plan_9_wiki/1054945587 > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 8 02:18:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 8 02:18:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29484 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Jun 2003 02:18:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29480 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2003 02:18:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Jun 2003 02:18:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 88F0519A08; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 13:18:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from infocom.km.ua (infocom.km.ua [195.230.134.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C70B9199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 13:17:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kp.km.ua (root@kp.km.ua [217.196.174.2]) by infocom.km.ua (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/ic) with ESMTP id h57HHFwI067809 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 20:17:17 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Received: from localhost.localdomain (dialup13.kp.km.ua [217.196.174.28]) by kp.km.ua (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/kp-branch) with SMTP id h57HGtMu030912 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 20:16:58 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; charset="koi8-r"; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_1NZ45EGWQH4G9N880E6Z" From: "Andrey S. Kukhar" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <03060720145700.00599@localhost.localdomain> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] history things Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 20:21:02 -0400 --------------Boundary-00=_1NZ45EGWQH4G9N880E6Z Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Hi 9`ers, I heard that Bell Labs's "Unix Room" was renamed to "Plan 9 Land", if so when approximately this happened? The other question is about Plan 9 team photo (attached), I need it in bigger resolution (for magazine article), do you know where I can get it? regards, -kyxap --------------Boundary-00=_1NZ45EGWQH4G9N880E6Z Content-Type: image/jpeg; charset="koi8-r"; name="team.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="team.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAsICAoIBwsKCQoNDAsNERwSEQ8PESIZGhQcKSQrKigk JyctMkA3LTA9MCcnOEw5PUNFSElIKzZPVU5GVEBHSEX/2wBDAQwNDREPESESEiFFLicuRUVFRUVF RUVFRUVFRUVFRUVFRUVFRUVFRUVFRUVFRUVFRUVFRUVFRUVFRUVFRUVFRUX/wAARCAD6APoDASIA AhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAAAgEDAwIEAwUFBAQA AAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkKFhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3 ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWm p6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEA AwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREAAgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSEx 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29577 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2003 02:26:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Jun 2003 02:26:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DAE4D19A53; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 13:26:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 65BD9199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 13:25:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sat Jun 7 13:21:50 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <5af956ca20ad43ad186bb0ca6308b86d@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] history things From: Sape Mullender From: sape@plan9.bell-labs.com In-Reply-To: <03060720145700.00599@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 13:20:32 -0400 > I heard that Bell Labs's "Unix Room" was renamed to "Plan 9 > Land", if so when approximately this happened? That never happened. It's still the Unix Room. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 8 04:46:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 8 04:46:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31580 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Jun 2003 04:46:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31576 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2003 04:46:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Jun 2003 04:46:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 87C9E19A67; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 15:46:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E1C319A27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 15:45:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <62e4b02b6033351fcf0ac73278904718@plan9.bell-labs.com> quux: guy steele's favorite word? From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] history things In-Reply-To: <5af956ca20ad43ad186bb0ca6308b86d@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-zjuoiskqajslwviaovkoevelxj" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 15:45:13 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-zjuoiskqajslwviaovkoevelxj Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We tried `Room of Good Vibes and Harmony' for a while but it never stuck. --upas-zjuoiskqajslwviaovkoevelxj Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sat Jun 7 13:26:24 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sat Jun 7 13:26:21 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B1936199F2; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 13:26:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 65BD9199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 13:25:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sat Jun 7 13:21:50 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <5af956ca20ad43ad186bb0ca6308b86d@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] history things From: Sape Mullender From: sape@plan9.bell-labs.com In-Reply-To: <03060720145700.00599@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 13:20:32 -0400 > I heard that Bell Labs's "Unix Room" was renamed to "Plan 9 > Land", if so when approximately this happened? That never happened. It's still the Unix Room. --upas-zjuoiskqajslwviaovkoevelxj-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 8 12:03:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 8 12:03:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6092 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Jun 2003 12:03:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6088 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2003 12:03:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Jun 2003 12:03:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 474B219A77; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 23:03:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (mail.math.Princeton.EDU [128.112.18.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6068A19A2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 23:02:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.Princeton.EDU (math.Princeton.EDU [128.112.18.16]) by Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h5832Jk17957 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 23:02:19 -0400 Received: from math.Princeton.EDU (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by math.Princeton.EDU (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h5832JF11042 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 23:02:19 -0400 Message-Id: <200306080302.h5832JF11042@math.Princeton.EDU> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: RE: [9fans] Dual Boot: OpenBSD <=> Plan9 From: John Stalker Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 23:02:19 -0400 "Charles Smith (chas)" : >My 11yr & 15yr old daughters mostly boot FreeBSD but I am getting them >"gently" into Plan9. They refuse to move untill there is a Web Browser >and the concepts in the rio interface are a bit "out there" for them at >the moment. Well as it is they have achieved top marks in Geekdom at >their schools for running FreeBSD as their desktop. A comment from my 15 >year old this-morning was "Boy dad nethack is such a cool game!", it >brought a tear to my eye and I am one PROUD DAD :) This reminds my of a conversation I had with my 8 year old son as I was installing plan9 on his machine: Anthony: What games are there on plan9? Me (somewhat embarassed): Well, none actually. Long Pause. Anthony: Does it have a C compiler? Me: Yes. Anthony: Okay. Then we can write some. I must admit that he didn't actually follow through on the last bit. He seems to spend most of his time playing freeciv on FreeBSD. -- John Stalker Department of Mathematics Princeton University (609)258-6469 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 9 00:59:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 9 00:59:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19462 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Jun 2003 00:59:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19457 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2003 00:59:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Jun 2003 00:59:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BD4E119A60; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 11:59:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 75E0F19A60 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 11:58:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Jun 8 11:58:01 EDT 2003 Received: from 205.170.1.68 ([205.170.1.68]) by plan9; Sun Jun 8 11:57:58 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <1672ec6e73866ea6a851953152a916d1@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] 48-bit ata support Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 11:58:08 -0400 This time for sure. /sys/src/9/pc/sdata.c. Thanks to Christopher Nielsen for doing all the hard work. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 9 00:59:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 9 00:59:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19470 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Jun 2003 00:59:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19466 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2003 00:59:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Jun 2003 00:59:48 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D995019A9B; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 11:59:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 757C419A3E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 11:58:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Jun 8 11:58:01 EDT 2003 Received: from 205.170.1.68 ([205.170.1.68]) by plan9; Sun Jun 8 11:57:58 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <302eb884173e14b98878b4ccc1a156bb@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] 48-bit ata support Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 11:58:08 -0400 This time for sure. /sys/src/9/pc/sdata.c. Thanks to Christopher Nielsen for doing all the hard work. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 9 01:04:16 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 9 01:04:16 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19509 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Jun 2003 01:04:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19505 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2003 01:04:12 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Jun 2003 01:04:12 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3922E19A82; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 12:04:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1AD4E19A2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 12:03:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Jun 8 12:03:02 EDT 2003 Received: from 205.170.1.68 ([205.170.1.68]) by plan9; Sun Jun 8 12:02:59 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <5e0b8006a048bc86b9d39645967925d5@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] [OT] domain socket support in open(2) on unix From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030520220305.GA28447@wilbur.25thandClement.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 12:02:57 -0400 > i'm just curious as to what your views are. useful? no utility because > the standard shells won't reflect this capability? if done right, the standard shells shouldn't need to know. open should just work. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 9 01:25:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 9 01:25:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19689 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Jun 2003 01:25:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19685 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2003 01:25:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Jun 2003 01:25:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E02C519A87; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 12:25:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 304F019A3E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 12:24:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Jun 8 12:24:08 EDT 2003 Received: from 205.170.1.68 ([205.170.1.68]) by plan9; Sun Jun 8 12:24:06 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <347c3e19e0497646bbd470e04ee4985e@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: RE: [9fans] anyone worked on 9pm From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 12:24:09 -0400 > Are your libraries generally available? The libutf, libfmt, libbio, and libregexp9 are at http://pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~rsc/software/. Libthread will be there soon, I hope. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 9 04:27:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 9 04:27:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21494 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Jun 2003 04:27:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21490 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2003 04:27:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Jun 2003 04:27:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 33E1E19A88; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 15:27:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from abric (unknown [202.56.157.120]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5FC361998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 15:26:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from los ([211.158.42.93]) by abric with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Mon, 9 Jun 2003 03:23:46 +0530 From: "Suong Swansen" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_0609030326" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jun 2003 21:53:46.0859 (UTC) FILETIME=[6FE7E3B0:01C32E08] Subject: [9fans] =?ISO-8859-3?B?OWZhbnMsU2FtcGxlIG9mIHdlaWdodCBsb3NzIHByb2R1Y3QhIA==?= Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: "Suong Swansen" List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 19:26:11 GMT ------=_NextPart_0609030326 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWw+DQo8aGVhZD4NCjx0aXRsZT48L3RpdGxlPg0KPG1ldGEgaHR0cC1lcXVpdj1Db250ZW50 LVR5cGUgY29udGVudD0idGV4dC9odG1sOyBjaGFyc2V0PWdiMjMxMiI+DQo8L2hlYWQ+DQo8Ym9k eSBiZ2NvbG9yPSNGRkZGRkYgdGV4dD0jMDAwMDAwPg0KPHA+U3VwcG9zZSB3ZSB0ZWxsIHlvdSB0 aGF0IHlvdSBjb3VsZCByZWFsbHkgbG9zZSB1cCB0byA4MiUgb2YgeW91ciB1bndhbnRlZCBib2R5 IA0KZmF0IGFuZCBrZWVwIGl0IG9mZiBpbiBqdXN0IGEgZmV3IG1vbnRocywgd291bGQgeW91IGJl IGludGVyZXN0ZWQ/IFdlIGNlcnRhaW5seSANCmhvcGUgc28hPGJyPg0KSGF2ZSB5b3UgdHJpZWQg anVzdCBhYm91dCBldmVyeSBkaWV0IG91dCB0aGVyZS1idXQgbm90aGluZyBzZWVtcyB0byB3b3Jr PyEgVGhlbiANCmRvbid0IG1pc3MgdGhpcyBpbXBvcnRhbnQgbWVzc2FnZSE8YnI+DQpXZSBpbnZp dGUgeW91IHRvIGV4cGVyaWVuY2UgdGhlIG1vc3QgYWR2YW5jZWQgd2VpZ2h0IExvc3MgcHJvZHVj dCBhdmFpbGFibGUgDQooaGdoIG9yYWwgc3ByYXkpIHdlIGd1YXJhbnRlZSBmb3IgeW91IHRvIGxv c2Ugd2VpZ2h0IHF1aWNrbHksIHNhZmVseSBhbmQga2VlcCANCml0IG9mZiBmb3IgZ29vZCBmb3Jl dmVyITxicj4NCkFzIHNlZW4gb24gTkJDLCBDQlMsIGFuZCBDTk4sIGFuZCBldmVuIE9wcmFoISBI Z2ggYWN0dWFsbHkgaGVscHMgdG8gcmV2ZXJzZSANCmFnaW5nIHdoaWxlIGJ1cm5pbmcgZmF0IHdp dGhvdXQgZGlldGluZyBvciBleGVyY2lzZSE8YnI+DQpXZSBtYW51ZmFjdHVyZSBhbmQgc2hpcCBk aXJlY3RseSB0byB5b3VyIGRvb3IuIFdlIGd1YXJhbnRlZSB0aGUgaGlnaGVzdCBxdWFsaXR5IA0K YW5kIGxvd2VzdCBwcmljZS48YnI+DQpUYWtlIGFkdmFudGFnZSBvZiBvdXIgTElNSVRFRCB0aW1l IHNwZWNpYWwgb2ZmZXIgcGxlYXNlIHZpc2l0IG91ciB3ZWIgc2l0ZSA8YSBocmVmPWh0dHA6Ly93 d3cuZGVidGJlZWdvbmUuY29tLzc1NjMyNC9wdS8+Y2xpY2sgDQpoZXJlPC9hPjwvcD4NCjxwPjxh IGhyZWY9aHR0cDovL3d3dy5kZWJ0YmVlZ29uZS5jb20vNzU2MzI0L3JlbW92ZS5odG1sPlJlbW92 ZSBtYWlsPC9hPjwvcD4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4= ------=_NextPart_0609030326-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 9 07:57:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 9 07:57:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23187 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Jun 2003 07:57:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23183 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2003 07:57:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Jun 2003 07:57:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B01CF19A65; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 18:57:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2B05519A2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 18:56:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h58Mr7Nx010172 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 16:53:07 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h58Mr7UE010168 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 16:53:07 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] small vmware images Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 16:53:07 -0600 (MDT) Hello, Every once in a while I need to run a full-blown (auth/cpu/file) servers under vmware. So far I've been managing with copying the original vmware image (1.2GB) to a new directory and booting it as a cpu server off a running instance of the first vmware image... This all worked fine, until I needed something like 6 cpu servers -- just don't have that kind of spare disk space. So I created a very small (10MB) vmware image that contains only the bare necessities to boot up from a remote system and act as either a cpu server or a terminal: http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~mirtchov/p9/vmware/ It contains a 10MB 9fat partition and a 1 sector nvram image (download size approx 3MB). 9fat contains a simple plan9.ini that will prompt you whether you want to boot a 9pccpu or 9pcdisk kernel (you can edit this once you know your network parameters). You can find installation instructions and the images at the above URL. I'm using vmware 3 under Linux, so there is a slight chance you may not be able to boot plan9 successfully -- email me if you have any questions. If there's interest I may give you instructions (or an rc script) to create those images yourselves: you'll need a brand new vmware image and a cdrom with the plan9 bootable iso on it. andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 9 11:20:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 9 11:20:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30185 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Jun 2003 11:20:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30180 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2003 11:20:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Jun 2003 11:20:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5876B19ABF; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 22:20:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4CDC719A04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 22:19:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Dual Boot: OpenBSD <=> Plan9 From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <006101c32c7f$93307100$e3944251@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 11:21:14 +0900 > whatever you do, don't get that lunix grub on your disk -- ouch! Why? just from my curiousity. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 9 13:56:01 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 9 13:56:01 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5050 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Jun 2003 13:55:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5026 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2003 13:55:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Jun 2003 13:55:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C89E51998A; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 00:55:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs01-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.200]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9249819A10 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 00:54:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <226799-4886>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 00:54:06 -0400 Message-ID: <003201c32e43$26a8f780$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] Dual Boot: OpenBSD <=> Plan9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 06:54:02 +0200 > > whatever you do, don't get that lunix grub on your disk -- ouch! > > Why? just from my curiousity. i'm no pc guru, but you can get into a state where nothing boots. well, it boots but is as useful as a 'hot rock'; interesting, but useless. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 9 15:08:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 9 15:08:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8487 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Jun 2003 15:08:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8483 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2003 15:08:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Jun 2003 15:08:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 67E6719A9E; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 02:08:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE88919995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 02:07:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <29de5d3e7678e002c99f9a226344687b@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dennis Ritchie From: dmr@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] history things In-Reply-To: <03060720145700.00599@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 02:07:26 -0400 Regarding one of Kukhar's questions, about the Plan 9 photo, it is probably available, though I couldn't find a larger rendition. Details from the Lucent photo database: Control number: 741348664 Filing Number: 95-3429 Photo number(s): 95-3429 Color availability: Color available Negative Size: 35mm Negative loc: MH Visual description: A group of men are sitting in a lab, all facing in one direction with smiles on their faces. 2. A group of men in a lab setting, conversing with one another. Description: The Plan 9 system is now available for commercial research and development organizations. Members of the Computing Techniques Research Department, which developed the software, are (foreground, from left) Dennis Ritchie, Dave Presotto, Rob Pike, (background, from left) Tom Killian, Allen Eisdorfer, Tom Duff, Phil Winterbottom, Jim McKie, Howard Trickey and Sean Dorward. 2.Members of the Computing Techniques Research Department are in a lab setting, conversing with one another. BELL LABS NEWS JULY 24, 1995 Filing Subject: Computer Plan 9 date: 07/24/1995 Classification: cleared Collection Name: AT&T Corporate It's not accompanied by a scan, I'm afraid. If it's important, let me know. Dennis From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 10 00:36:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 10 00:36:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27008 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Jun 2003 00:36:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27004 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2003 00:36:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Jun 2003 00:36:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 82F1919A6E; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 11:36:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from atlrel7.hp.com (atlrel7.hp.com [156.153.255.213]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 46001199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 11:35:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from udlkern.fc.hp.com (udlkern.fc.hp.com [15.1.52.48]) by atlrel7.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26F721C007B0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 11:35:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udlkern.fc.hp.com (8.11.1/8.9.3 SMKit7.01) with SMTP id h59FZRE04373 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 09:35:27 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200306091535.h59FZRE04373@udlkern.fc.hp.com> X-Authentication-Warning: udlkern.fc.hp.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Dale McCluskey Subject: [9fans] Compaq Armada 7730MT? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 09:35:27 -0600 Has anyone tried to get Plan 9 to work on a Compaq Armada 7730MT? When I tried, aux/vga didn't work... is this easily fixable, or is it an unworkable chipset, or ??? The errors and part of the ID dumped out by aux/vga are below. Thanks, Dale aux/vga: controller not in /lib/vgadb IBM VGA Compatible BIOS Compaq Aurora64V+ Version 3.01-25 aux/vga: vgactlw: : bad VGA control message "type vga" From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 10 00:53:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 10 00:53:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27311 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Jun 2003 00:53:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27307 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2003 00:53:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Jun 2003 00:53:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3F42319A9F; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 11:53:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.181]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1F23319A04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 11:52:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-26-101.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.26.101 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jun 2003 15:52:09 -0000 Message-ID: <3EE4BAE1.7090407@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Compaq Armada 7730MT? References: <200306091535.h59FZRE04373@udlkern.fc.hp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 11:50:41 -0500 > > >Has anyone tried to get Plan 9 to work on a Compaq Armada 7730MT? >When I tried, aux/vga didn't work... is this easily fixable, or >is it an unworkable chipset, or ??? The errors and part of the >ID dumped out by aux/vga are below. > I had a great plan9 term going on a 7770DMT, which is probably very similar. It also used an Aurora64V+ and I never had any trouble with it. In fact, you can see a screenshot (and Adalia's spelling errors (hey babe! :P)) at http://blessedchildren.virtualave.net/shot0.gif I think I blew that laptop out before 4e... I'm not sure... but, you're looking at third edition. None the less, the chipset should be recognized. Everything else on the laptop worked for me: sound, pcmcia, no hard disk troubles, all the memory was recognized, serial and parallel, etc. It was a great little workhorse until I accidently torched it playing experimental-Joe. Don http://deadchildren.org/~north_ > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 10 02:38:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 10 02:38:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28802 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Jun 2003 02:38:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28798 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2003 02:38:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Jun 2003 02:38:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8E05719A8C; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 13:38:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (mail.math.Princeton.EDU [128.112.18.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0539D19A8C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 13:37:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fine1008.math.Princeton.EDU (fine1008.math.princeton.edu [128.112.16.123]) by Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h59Hbmk16028 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 13:37:48 -0400 Received: from fine1008.math.princeton.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fine1008.math.Princeton.EDU (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h59Hbmv24323 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 13:37:48 -0400 Message-Id: <200306091737.h59Hbmv24323@fine1008.math.Princeton.EDU> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Dual Boot: OpenBSD <=> Plan9 From: John Stalker Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 13:37:47 -0400 >> > whatever you do, don't get that lunix grub on your disk -- ouch! >> >> Why? just from my curiousity. > >i'm no pc guru, but you can get into a state where nothing boots. > >well, it boots but is as useful as a 'hot rock'; interesting, but useless. Indeed. It did this me a few weeks weeks ago. My NetBSD partition never recovered from whatever it did--not that I tried very hard. Assuming you don't want to boot an extended partition or a partition on a disk not recognized by the BIOS the most trouble-free option is a BSD boot sector. I use a FreeBSD boot manager. It just sits there in the MBR and never requires any sort of reconfiguration if you move partitions around, upgrade kernels, install or deinstall operating systems, etc. -- John Stalker Department of Mathematics Princeton University (609)258-6469 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 10 06:22:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 10 06:22:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31682 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Jun 2003 06:22:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31678 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2003 06:22:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Jun 2003 06:22:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 46CAC19A94; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 17:22:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.dirac.net (unknown [151.196.211.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 887CA19A66 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 17:21:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 15069 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Jun 2003 21:19:30 -0000 Message-ID: <20030609211930.15068.qmail@mail.dirac.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Dual Boot: OpenBSD <=> Plan9 From: Keith Nash Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 9 Jun 2003 21:19:30 -0000 I've never had any trouble with GRUB. The only situation when Linux cannot usefully boot from GRUB is if you have corrupted the kernel or the GRUB files on your Linux partition. (If you have trashed other important files, all bootloaders are at a disadvantage.) The traditional fix for a damaged kernel is a Linux boot floppy that provides the kernel. Since I have several partitions running different distributions, I tend not to make these floppies any more, and just keep a GRUB boot floppy. I would repair broken distribution A by booting distribution B, if necessary from the GRUB floppy, and then mounting A's disk. I find GRUB invaluable - the feature I like best (in Linux) is that GRUB is aware of filesystems (at least ext2/ext3), so it is not necessary to know the physical location of the kernel on disk, only its filename. You can unpack a filesystem from a tarball, and boot it from the GRUB command line (first changing only /etc/fstab if the tarball was packed from a different partition). Keith. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 10 08:06:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 10 08:06:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 785 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Jun 2003 08:06:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 781 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2003 08:06:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Jun 2003 08:06:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7739519AA0; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 19:06:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from helium.webpack.hosteurope.de (helium.one-2-one.net [217.115.142.90]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7CD7919A66 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 19:05:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jauu.net (pD9E419E3.dip.t-dialin.net [217.228.25.227]) by helium.webpack.hosteurope.de (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h59N5bi10550 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 01:05:42 +0200 Received: from toaster by jauu.net with local (Exim 4.05) id 19PVm8-0001ZN-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 01:10:04 +0200 From: Hagen Paul Pfeifer To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Dual Boot: OpenBSD <=> Plan9 Message-ID: <20030609231004.GA5540@trinitry.jauu.net> References: <20030609211930.15068.qmail@mail.dirac.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030609211930.15068.qmail@mail.dirac.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 01:10:04 +0200 Thanks for all replies! My current boot loader then I use for the boot process is lilo. Cause in one of the first answers one user prefer lilo, that was the main case. ;-) I acknowledge the aspects for grub, but on my box I had a separate boot partitions where grub resist and I only mount this partitions when I add a new kernel. The interface for grub is very handy for my when I add a new kernel: add a new entry, thats all! Where I used lilo I had to add a entry to lilo.conf and make a lilo. But I think that is a personal taste. ;-) Hagen -- My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 10 11:55:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 10 11:55:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8868 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Jun 2003 11:55:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8864 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2003 11:55:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Jun 2003 11:55:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 34CEE19A66; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 22:55:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from web40413.mail.yahoo.com (web40413.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.110]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 5F0A7199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 22:54:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <20030610025432.29008.qmail@web40413.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.210.205.126] by web40413.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 09 Jun 2003 19:54:32 PDT From: "A. Baker" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] Chaos anyone ? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 19:54:32 -0700 (PDT) >Bodacion's Hydra server uses biomorphic mathematics -- >a derivative of Chaos Theory used to model the random >growth of living things -- to generate series of >pattern-less numbers that cannot be deciphered by >hackers, even if they possess the basic mathematical >formula, Uner told NewsFactor. No two Hydra users >ever receive the same session ID, customer ID, order >ID, or any other digital identification. Nor will any >hacker be able to discern a pattern and predict the >next number, Uner added." >>Bodacion's Hydra ... > >In sci.crypt we call this "Snake Oil". ---- >Maybe thats why it's called hydra... :) ---- >"Obfuscation with intent to deceive" would be a good >legal description, to my mind. ---- http://www.interhack.net/people/cmcurtin/snake-oil-faq.html http://www.counterpane.com/crypto-gram-9902.html#snakeoil Yeah, it did sound like they were swingin' their *icks :-) I'd (still) be (wildly) interested in comments of the security persuasion. (Plan 9s current model vs Unix (yes I RTFM, TYVM :-) vs Process-Based Security(PBS), vs ... ? Searching for some silver bullets. Thanks, ===== Boojum __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 10 12:10:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 10 12:10:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9466 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Jun 2003 12:10:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9462 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2003 12:10:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Jun 2003 12:10:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A957A19995; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 23:10:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs01-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.200]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8CF8019A8A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 23:09:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557131-30600>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 23:06:21 -0400 Message-ID: <000501c32efd$429d1420$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030610025432.29008.qmail@web40413.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Chaos anyone ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 05:06:16 +0200 > I'd (still) be (wildly) interested in comments of the > security persuasion. > (Plan 9s current model vs Unix (yes I RTFM, TYVM :-) > vs Process-Based Security(PBS), vs ... ? err, describe your 'threat model'. 1) what have you got to protect? 2) how much will its compromise 'cost'? 3) how much are you prepared to 'pay' to protect it? it's not black and white ... it's grey ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 10 13:24:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 10 13:24:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12670 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Jun 2003 13:24:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12666 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2003 13:24:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Jun 2003 13:24:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 22E4C19AA3; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 00:24:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ginnan.cc.titech.ac.jp (ginnan.cc.titech.ac.jp [131.112.14.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0FE7E19AA2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 00:23:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 28128 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2003 04:23:38 -0000 Received: from beat.cc.titech.ac.jp (131.112.4.22) by ginnan.cc.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Jun 2003 04:23:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 17295 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2003 04:24:43 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO beat.cc.titech.ac.jp) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 10 Jun 2003 04:24:43 -0000 From: YAMANASHI Takeshi To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <17293.1055219083@beat.cc.titech.ac.jp> Subject: [9fans] change password from a terminal? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:24:43 +0900 Hi, I am curious about changing password. "Password Change" section in authsrv(6) seems suggesting it is possible to change a password from a terminal with interaction with the appropriate AS. But changeuser(8) states that these command run only on AS. Must I go to the AS console when I feel like to change my password? What's wrong with my understanding? -- YAMANASH Takeshi From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 10 13:32:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 10 13:32:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13022 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Jun 2003 13:32:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13016 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2003 13:32:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Jun 2003 13:32:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1687B19AAD; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 00:32:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams004.ftl.affinity.com (lvs01-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.200]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2C36E199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 00:31:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <225557-28191>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 00:30:50 -0400 Message-ID: <001001c32f09$1060db20$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <17293.1055219083@beat.cc.titech.ac.jp> Subject: Re: [9fans] change password from a terminal? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 06:30:42 +0200 > Must I go to the AS console when I feel like to change > my password? What's wrong with my understanding? it's 0600 local, and iirc, you can change your password on the terminal. you can obviously do it in on the AS. however, from the terminal it must be a 'local' window to avoid the password change flying around _in the clear_. buy a copy of Network Security, Kaufman et al ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 10 14:03:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 10 14:03:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14588 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Jun 2003 14:03:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14584 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2003 14:03:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Jun 2003 14:03:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 61D2F19A9D; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 01:03:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ginnan.cc.titech.ac.jp (ginnan.cc.titech.ac.jp [131.112.14.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8724B19A9D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 01:02:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 28294 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2003 05:02:08 -0000 Received: from beat.cc.titech.ac.jp (131.112.4.22) by ginnan.cc.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Jun 2003 05:02:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 17381 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2003 05:03:13 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO beat.cc.titech.ac.jp) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 10 Jun 2003 05:03:13 -0000 From: YAMANASHI Takeshi To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] change password from a terminal? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 10 Jun 2003 06:30:42 +0200." <001001c32f09$1060db20$e3944251@insultant.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <17378.1055221393@beat.cc.titech.ac.jp> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 14:03:13 +0900 > however, from the terminal it must be a 'local' window to > avoid the password change flying around _in the clear_. Both old and new password look like encrypted with the key Kn: UserProc->AS Kn{AuthPass, "old password", "new password"} (authsrv(6)) and UserProc doesn't necessarily run on the AS only, I think. By the way, your "rounin" means boss-less Samurai? :) -- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 10 15:11:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 10 15:11:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17639 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Jun 2003 15:11:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17617 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2003 15:11:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Jun 2003 15:11:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5EB4919A7B; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 02:11:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C90D219AB1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 02:10:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Jun 10 02:10:48 EDT 2003 Received: from 205.170.1.68 ([205.170.1.68]) by plan9; Tue Jun 10 02:10:46 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <332f08827184f9626b4af6a39f4fe390@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] change password from a terminal? From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <001001c32f09$1060db20$e3944251@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 02:10:45 -0400 > however, from the terminal it must be a 'local' window to > avoid the password change flying around _in the clear_. the password change doesn't fly around in the clear anymore -- cpu connections are encrypted. i type "service=terminal passwd" all the time. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 10 15:12:15 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 10 15:12:15 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17667 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Jun 2003 15:12:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17663 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2003 15:12:14 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Jun 2003 15:12:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 88D0219AB8; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 02:12:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 63F8D19AB6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 02:11:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Jun 10 02:11:15 EDT 2003 Received: from 205.170.1.68 ([205.170.1.68]) by plan9; Tue Jun 10 02:11:13 EDT 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] change password from a terminal? From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <17293.1055219083@beat.cc.titech.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 02:11:12 -0400 > "Password Change" section in authsrv(6) seems suggesting > it is possible to change a password from a terminal with > interaction with the appropriate AS. But changeuser(8) > states that these command run only on AS. run passwd. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 10 15:20:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 10 15:20:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17998 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Jun 2003 15:20:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17993 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2003 15:20:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Jun 2003 15:20:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 74FEA19AC9; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 02:20:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ginnan.cc.titech.ac.jp (ginnan.cc.titech.ac.jp [131.112.14.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 05FB519AC5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 02:19:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 28528 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2003 06:19:52 -0000 Received: from beat.cc.titech.ac.jp (131.112.4.22) by ginnan.cc.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Jun 2003 06:19:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 17639 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2003 06:20:56 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO beat.cc.titech.ac.jp) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 10 Jun 2003 06:20:56 -0000 From: YAMANASHI Takeshi To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] change password from a terminal? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 10 Jun 2003 02:11:12 -0400." Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <17636.1055226056@beat.cc.titech.ac.jp> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 15:20:56 +0900 > run passwd. Beautifull. Sorry for my silly question and thanks for both of you, Boyd and Russ. P.S. I will write on my white-board `lookman ordinary_unix_command` a considerable times. -- YAMANASHI Takeshi From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 10 15:25:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 10 15:25:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18266 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Jun 2003 15:25:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18251 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2003 15:25:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Jun 2003 15:25:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5026E19AB1; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 02:25:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs01-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.200]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E512919AB6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 02:24:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557406-3852>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 02:24:29 -0400 Message-ID: <001301c32f18$ee64a640$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <17378.1055221393@beat.cc.titech.ac.jp> Subject: Re: [9fans] change password from a terminal? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C32F29.B0EA1000" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 08:24:20 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C32F29.B0EA1000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > By the way, your "rounin" means boss-less Samurai? :) it means: 1) masterless samurai [http://japan.chez.tiscali.fr/TokyoWeb/E-Ronin.htm] 2) unemployed man 3) a college student failing his [entrance?] exams [my japanese dictionary is somewhere in 7 boxes, so i'm not 100% sure on this last one] i saw where they [the 47] are buried in tokyo in the late '80s, well before the film RONIN: http://us.imdb.com/Title?0122690 whose romaji is wrong. and i have have the tattoo [~6x3cm] on my left upper arm, just covered by a t-shirt sleeve. gaijin dakara, wakaranai ... :) ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C32F29.B0EA1000 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="rounin.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="rounin.jpg" /9j/4RK7RXhpZgAASUkqAAgAAAAKAA8BAgAFAAAAhgAAABABAgAMAAAAjAAAABIBAwABAAAAAQAA ABoBBQABAAAAmAAAABsBBQABAAAAoAAAACgBAwABAAAAAgAAADEBAgAYAAAAqAAAADIBAgAUAAAA wAAAABMCAwABAAAAAQAAAGmHBAABAAAA1AAAAIwBAABTT05ZAABQaWN0dXJlR2VhcgCA/AoAECcA AID8CgAQJwAAUGljdHVyZUdlYXIgVmVyc2lvbiA0LjEAMjAwMTowNDoxNiAyMzo1OTo0MQAJAACQ BwAEAAAAMDIxMAOQAgAUAAAARgEAAASQAgAUAAAAWgEAAAGRBwAEAAAAAQIDAACgBwAEAAAAMDEw MAGgAwABAAAAAQAAAAKgBAABAAAAywAAAAOgBAABAAAAXgAAAAWgBAABAAAAbgEAAAAAAAAyMDAx OjA0OjE2IDIzOjU5OjQxADIwMDE6MDQ6MTYgMjM6NTk6NDEAAgABAAIABAAAAFI5OAACAAcABAAA 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2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 10 15:27:14 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18382 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Jun 2003 15:27:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18378 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2003 15:27:13 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Jun 2003 15:27:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 613CE19ADE; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 02:27:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs01-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.200]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0DA8F19ADE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 02:26:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <227123-6455>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 02:26:03 -0400 Message-ID: <002101c32f19$29083f00$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <332f08827184f9626b4af6a39f4fe390@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] change password from a terminal? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 08:25:59 +0200 > the password change doesn't fly around > in the clear anymore ... sure, i was thinking old 9p. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 10 17:45:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 10 17:45:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24266 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Jun 2003 17:45:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24262 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2003 17:45:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Jun 2003 17:45:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE9AE19AA2; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 04:45:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B88E819AA1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 04:44:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19Peja-00064o-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:44:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Robby Message-ID: <%p%Ea.12506$m_2.89463013@news-text.cableinet.net> Organization: Unorganised Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] problem with upas/fs and echo open >/mail/fs/ctl Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 08:42:03 GMT Hi, I am finding a bit oddness with upas/fs and echoing 'open' into /mail/fs/ctl. I have a couple of mailboxes that I manage very nicely by starting upas/fs without any -f option, and then to open a particular mailbox I echo 'open /imap/imap.myisp.server/mysillycomplicatedboxname mybox' >/mail/fs/ctl After this I can read my email in acme with 'Mail mybox'. Now I am finding that when my outside mailbox is empty, echo'ing the open creates the right directory in /mail/fs but doesn't actually populate it with anything. You can see it, but you can't cd into it. And Mail then also fails, obviously. I can revive everything by sending a message to the box, suddenly the directory structure becomes normal again. And once you've reached that stage, it remains fine. It only ever happens on the initial open. I thought I'd ask here before trawling into code (my first foray), whether this was expected behaviour or not? I'll have a dig around the sources when I find a bit of spare time. Robby -- The only way to gain time is to slow down. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 10 17:45:56 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 10 17:45:56 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24294 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Jun 2003 17:45:56 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24290 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2003 17:45:55 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Jun 2003 17:45:55 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 647F519ABD; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 04:45:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B711519AA2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 04:44:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19PejZ-00064i-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:44:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Rob Ristroph Message-ID: <87smqlfiyl.fsf@rgristroph-austin.ath.cx> Organization: Road Runner - Texas Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] Does the Siemens SS1024 wireless PCI card work ? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: rgr@sdf.lonestar.org List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 08:41:46 GMT Hi, I may be able to get some of these cards cheaply: http://www.speedstream.com/support/1024main.html Some usenet searches suggested that it uses the Prism2 chipset; I noticed the "Intersil Prism-based wireless ethernet adapter (including Linksys Instant Wireless PC card)" mentioned on the Supported PC Hardware page on the wiki. Is there any chance this card will work with Plan 9 ? Thanks in advance, --Rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 10 17:46:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 10 17:46:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24322 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Jun 2003 17:46:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24318 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2003 17:46:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Jun 2003 17:46:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E976219AD6; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 04:45:23 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B656D19AAC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 04:44:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19Pegn-00062e-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:41:09 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EE1A791.9060607@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200306061337.h56DbZF15928@math.Princeton.EDU> Subject: Re: [9fans] fd0!dos not a FAT filesystem? [SOLUTION] Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 08:40:59 GMT Turns out that disabling the second 3.5" FDD in the BIOS straightened out the Plan 9 installation boot floppy. I noticed that the second drive motor came on just before the problem, perhaps probing for drives followed by a failure to select the original drive again when it was time to use it further.. Followup-To: Distribution: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Keywords: Cc: -- Dennis Davis, BUCS, University of Bath, Bath, BA2 7AY, UK D.H.Davis@bath.ac.uk From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 10 20:50:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 10 20:50:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28986 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Jun 2003 20:50:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28982 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2003 20:50:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Jun 2003 20:50:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6F24B19AB0; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 07:50:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2E54019AA8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 07:49:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <955002b1d88773f05bed5fec768d440f@plan9.bell-labs.com> quux: guy steele's favorite word? From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] change password from a terminal? In-Reply-To: <332f08827184f9626b4af6a39f4fe390@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-txaunpmkliemagvuzphkcaraup" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 07:49:26 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-txaunpmkliemagvuzphkcaraup Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'll change passwd to not require service=terminal anymore. --upas-txaunpmkliemagvuzphkcaraup Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Jun 10 02:11:22 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Tue Jun 10 02:11:20 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0EB7719AB2; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 02:11:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C90D219AB1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 02:10:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Jun 10 02:10:48 EDT 2003 Received: from 205.170.1.68 ([205.170.1.68]) by plan9; Tue Jun 10 02:10:46 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <332f08827184f9626b4af6a39f4fe390@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] change password from a terminal? From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <001001c32f09$1060db20$e3944251@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 02:10:45 -0400 > however, from the terminal it must be a 'local' window to > avoid the password change flying around _in the clear_. the password change doesn't fly around in the clear anymore -- cpu connections are encrypted. i type "service=terminal passwd" all the time. --upas-txaunpmkliemagvuzphkcaraup-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 10 23:30:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 10 23:30:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31984 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Jun 2003 23:30:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31980 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2003 23:30:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Jun 2003 23:30:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1CB8419AA1; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:30:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB1D3199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:29:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19Pjyj-0003iY-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 15:20:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Wesley Parish Message-ID: Organization: TelstraClear Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Subject: [9fans] Installing Plan9 to bochs Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 14:19:16 GMT It's actually underway as I write! Will keep you posted. Wesley Parish -- First the wife, tone of awe. So much a condition. Kent in the labs, fast forward. "So how was the worthlessful businessman?" But they hadn't stopped meat for year ago, that arose hotel facade slowly moved apper. - Don't let emacs meta-x dissociatedpress write your speeches! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 10 23:52:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 10 23:52:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32627 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Jun 2003 23:52:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32623 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2003 23:52:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Jun 2003 23:52:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E5B2319A2D; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:52:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 7E12719A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:51:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 8239 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2003 14:51:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO proweb.co.uk) (192.168.1.100) by juice.thebigchoice.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2003 14:51:26 -0000 Message-ID: <3EE5F06E.3040106@proweb.co.uk> From: matt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Installing Plan9 to bochs References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 15:51:26 +0100 Wesley Parish wrote: >It's actually underway as I write! > >Will keep you posted. > >Wesley Parish > > g.l. I tried on May 28 th I reported it not working at the end of last year and the bug got closed with this comment : Date: 2003-01-18 04:35 Sender: cbothamy Logged In: YES It works here on current cvs, ips=5000000. I booted from a floppy downloaded from http://plan9.bell-labs.com. The graphic install process wants a frame buffer, so installation is only available in texte mode. %cat bochslog 00000000000i[MEM0 ] allocated memory at 0x825d000. after alignment, vector=0x825d000 00000000000i[MEM0 ] 32.00MB 00000000000i[MEM0 ] rom at 0xf0000/65536 ('/usr/local/share/bochs/bios/BIOS-bochs-latest') 00000000000i[MEM0 ] rom at 0xc0000/32769 ('/usr/local/share/bochs/bios/VGABIOS-elpin-2.40') 00000000000i[CMOS ] Setting initial clock to: Wed May 28 00:08:01 2003 (time0=1054076881) 00000000000i[DMA ] channel 4 used by cascade 00000000000i[DMA ] channel 2 used by Floppy Drive 00000000000i[FDD ] fd0: '9disk.flp' ro=0, h=2,t=80,spt=18 00000000000i[FDD ] tried to open b.img read/write: No such file or directory 00000000000i[FDD ] tried to open b.img read only: No such file or directory 00000000000i[FDD ] fd1: 'b.img' ro=1, h=0,t=0,spt=0 00000000000i[XGUI ] test_alloc_colors: 16 colors available out of 16 colors tried 00000000000i[XGUI ] font 8 wide x 16 high, display depth = 24 00000000000i[VGA ] interval=300000 00000000000i[ ] init_mem of 'harddrv' plugin device by virtual method 00000000000i[ ] init_mem of 'keyboard' plugin device by virtual method 00000000000i[ ] init_mem of 'serial' plugin device by virtual method 00000000000i[ ] init_mem of 'parallel' plugin device by virtual method 00000000000i[ ] init_mem of 'ne2k' plugin device by virtual method 00000000000i[ ] init_dev of 'harddrv' plugin device by virtual method 00000000000i[HD ] HD on ata0-0: 'plan9.bochs_hd' 00000000000i[HD ] translation on ata0-0 set to 'none' 00000000000i[HD ] Boot device will be 'a' 00000000000i[HD ] Floppy boot signature check is enabled 00000000000i[ ] init_dev of 'keyboard' plugin device by virtual method 00000000000i[KBD ] will paste characters every 1000 keyboard ticks 00000000000i[ ] init_dev of 'serial' plugin device by virtual method 00000000000i[SER ] com1 at 0x3f8/8 irq 4 00000000000i[ ] init_dev of 'parallel' plugin device by virtual method 00000000000i[PAR ] parallel port 1 at 0x378 00000000000i[ ] init_dev of 'ne2k' plugin device by virtual method 00000000000i[NE2K ] port 0x280/32 irq 9 mac b0:c4:20:00:00:00 00000000000i[ ] reset of 'harddrv' plugin device by virtual method 00000000000i[ ] reset of 'keyboard' plugin device by virtual method 00000000000i[ ] reset of 'serial' plugin device by virtual method 00000000000i[ ] reset of 'parallel' plugin device by virtual method 00000000000i[ ] reset of 'ne2k' plugin device by virtual method 00000000000i[XGUI ] [x] Mouse off 00000004256i[BIOS ] rombios.c,v 1.85.2.1 2003/01/16 21:58:42 cbothamy Exp $ 00000318073i[KBD ] reset-disable command received 00000476377i[HD ] enabling LBA mode 00000481983i[BIOS ] ata0-0: PCHS=60/16/63 translation=none LCHS=60/16/63 00000499628e[HD ] device set to 1 which does not exist 00000931122i[BIOS ] *** int 15h function AX=5304, BX=0000 not yet supported! 00000935536i[BIOS ] *** int 15h function AX=5303, BX=0000 not yet supported! 00003384123i[HD ] enabling LBA mode 00277037777i[NE2K ] TCR write, loop mode 1 not supported 00277037788i[NE2K ] RCR write, monitor bit set! 01968892253i[HD ] enabling LBA mode 02107337393i[CPU ] PE is 1 02107337393i[CPU ] VM is 0 02107337393i[CPU ] CPL is 3 02107337393i[CPU ] IOPL is 0 02107337393i[CPU ] addr is 22104 02107337393i[CPU ] len is 4 02107337393p[CPU ] >>PANIC<< allow_io(): TR:io_base <= 103 02107337393i[SYS ] Last time is 1054078988 02107337393i[XGUI ] Exit. 02107337393i[CPU ] protected mode 02107337393i[CPU ] CS.d_b = 32 bit 02107337393i[CPU ] SS.d_b = 32 bit 02107337393i[CPU ] | EAX=564d5868 EBX=00000000 ECX=0000000a EDX=00005658 02107337393i[CPU ] | ESP=7fffeef0 EBP=7fffef20 ESI=00007d3c EDI=7fffef20 02107337393i[CPU ] | IOPL=0 NV UP EI PL ZR NA PE NC 02107337393i[CPU ] | SEG selector base limit G D 02107337393i[CPU ] | SEG sltr(index|ti|rpl) base limit G D 02107337393i[CPU ] | DS:001b( 0003| 0| 3) 00000000 000fffff 1 1 02107337393i[CPU ] | ES:001b( 0003| 0| 3) 00000000 000fffff 1 1 02107337393i[CPU ] | FS:001b( 0003| 0| 3) 00000000 000fffff 1 1 02107337393i[CPU ] | GS:001b( 0003| 0| 3) 00000000 000fffff 1 1 02107337393i[CPU ] | SS:001b( 0003| 0| 3) 00000000 000fffff 1 1 02107337393i[CPU ] | CS:0023( 0004| 0| 3) 00000000 000fffff 1 1 02107337393i[CPU ] | EIP=0000118d (0000118c) 02107337393i[CPU ] | CR0=0x80010039 CR1=0x00000000 CR2=0x000043fc 02107337393i[CPU ] | CR3=0x0157d000 CR4=0x00000000 02107337393i[ ] restoring default signal behavior 02107337393i[CTRL ] quit_sim called with exit code 1 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 11 02:18:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 11 02:18:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2577 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2003 02:18:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2573 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2003 02:18:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2003 02:18:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2DAC319A71; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:18:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1E812199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:17:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18452 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:17:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5AHH4517327 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:17:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306101717.h5AHH4517327@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] change password from a terminal? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 10 Jun 2003 02:10:45 EDT." <332f08827184f9626b4af6a39f4fe390@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:17:04 -0400 "Russ Cox" writes: > the password change doesn't fly around > in the clear anymore -- cpu connections > are encrypted. i type "service=terminal passwd" > all the time. This begs the question; is there any reason to check the service when changing one's password anymore? - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 11 02:21:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 11 02:21:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2607 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2003 02:21:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2603 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2003 02:21:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2003 02:21:37 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ACE9D19A8E; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:21:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3EA3D19A8A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:20:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19157 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:20:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5AHKJ517371 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:20:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306101720.h5AHKJ517371@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] change password from a terminal? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 10 Jun 2003 07:49:26 EDT." <955002b1d88773f05bed5fec768d440f@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:20:19 -0400 David Presotto writes: > I'll change passwd to not require service=terminal anymore. Oh. Uhh, nevermind my last post. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 11 03:10:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 11 03:10:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3122 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Jun 2003 03:10:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3117 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2003 03:10:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Jun 2003 03:10:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D62B19AA4; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 14:10:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from magnum.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2B1A0199A3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 14:09:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from robin.cooper.edu by magnum.cooper.edu with SMTP id AA04540 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>); Tue, 10 Jun 2003 14:14:01 -0400 Received: from localhost by robin.cooper.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA27192; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 14:09:20 -0400 From: Joel Salomon To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Chaos anyone ? In-Reply-To: <20030610025432.29008.qmail@web40413.mail.yahoo.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Joel Salomon List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 14:09:20 -0400 (EDT) Could anyone make a guess as to how long it would take to re-implement IX under plan9? This is not a request, I see little use for such a beast, but would make an interesting discussion. How much of what *isn't* snake-oil in the Hydra article (or similar, 'legitimate' products) was left unanswered in the IX papers? --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 12 08:10:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 12 08:10:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16138 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2003 08:10:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16134 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2003 08:10:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2003 08:10:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3559419A85; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 19:10:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from web40409.mail.yahoo.com (web40409.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id D11AF199A3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 19:09:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <20030611230945.7057.qmail@web40409.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.210.205.126] by web40409.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:09:45 PDT From: "A. Baker" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] Chaos anyone ? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:09:45 -0700 (PDT) >> I'd (still) be (wildly) interested in comments of >>the security persuasion. >> (Plan 9s current model vs Unix (yes I RTFM, TYVM :-) >> vs Process-Based Security(PBS), vs ... ? >err, describe your 'threat model'. > 1) what have you got to protect? > 2) how much will its compromise 'cost'? > 3) how much are you prepared to 'pay' to protect >it? >it's not black and white ... it's grey ... GREY! We're full color! ;-) 1) Xinet server add on WebNative http://www.xinet.com/ 2) Realistically? in money? 2 days with backups, times the look on the owners face ... PRICELESS. 3) As far as an appliance? Not sure (were poor lately), so I'm hanging around trying to talk to smart people, such as you fine folks here. Mostly I'm just lazy, not incapable with the state of things. I think D. Ritchie(?) was quoted saying: "Unix administration is a nightmare." Yes. Yes, it is. ===== Boojum __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 12 08:42:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 12 08:42:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16598 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2003 08:42:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16594 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2003 08:42:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2003 08:42:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3F93519A26; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 19:42:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-02.noos.net [212.198.2.71]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E88BE199A3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 19:41:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 6127074 invoked by uid 0); 11 Jun 2003 23:17:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.227]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.71 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 11 Jun 2003 23:17:41 -0000 Message-ID: <008801c3306f$a5c72220$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030611230945.7057.qmail@web40409.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Chaos anyone ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 01:17:37 +0200 From: "A. Baker" > I'd (still) be (wildly) interested in comments of > the security persuasion. i'm sure Doug Gwyn can explain it far better than i have attempted to. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 12 12:37:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 12 12:37:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26888 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2003 12:37:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26884 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2003 12:37:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2003 12:37:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A6D95199B3; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:37:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A253719A17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:36:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 10350 invoked by uid 991); 12 Jun 2003 03:36:14 -0000 Message-ID: <20030612033614.10349.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> From: "Scott Schwartz" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] newuser Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 11 Jun 2003 23:36:14 -0400 I think /sys/lib/newuser should exit with an error if the ``cd $home'' fails, instead of continuing. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 12 12:41:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 12 12:41:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27021 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2003 12:41:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27017 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2003 12:41:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2003 12:41:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4891919A90; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:41:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id D098B19A6B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:40:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 10371 invoked by uid 991); 12 Jun 2003 03:40:38 -0000 Message-ID: <20030612034038.10370.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> From: "Scott Schwartz" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] another termrc gripe Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 11 Jun 2003 23:40:38 -0400 Right now termrc unconditionally tells timesync to assume the rtc is not GMT. Writing aux/timesync -r $TIMESYNCGMT -a $TIMESYNCACCURACY would let us set TIMESYNCGMT in termrc.local. A similar environment variable, $USEDHCP say, could control how ipconfig is launched. I do wish rc had non-env variables, because otherwise these things leak into /env. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 12 16:10:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 12 16:10:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4945 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2003 16:10:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4941 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2003 16:10:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2003 16:10:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D38219A7D; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 03:10:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from XMAIL.asuch.cas.cz (clusterb.asuch.cas.cz [147.231.136.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 13FDA199A3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 03:09:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vavr ([147.231.139.50]) by XMAIL.asuch.cas.cz with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:09:55 +0200 Message-ID: <000501c330b1$a0605bc0$328be793@gli.cas.cz> From: "pac" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Jun 2003 07:09:55.0163 (UTC) FILETIME=[A03442B0:01C330B1] Subject: [9fans] horizontal scroll for acme? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:09:55 +0200 what about | rs [lines cols] and back, see man rs from BSD utils never tried, though, regarsd, ++pac ================================= kenji wrote: > and horizontal axis on a fly. Is this an better idea? I meant to flipt the following tupple's list |1111|2222|3333|4444|5555|6666|7777| <--- tupple1 |2222|3333|4444|5555|6666|7777|8888| <--- tupple2 |3333|4444|5555|6666|7777|8888|9999| <--- tupple3 into t1 t2 t3 |1111|2222|3333| |2222|3333|4444| |3333|4444|5555| |4444|5555|6666| |5555|6666|7777| |6666|7777|8888| |7777|8888|9999| on a fly. kenji --- Odchozí zpráva neobsahuje viry. Zkontrolováno antivirovým systémem AVG (http://www.grisoft.cz). Verze: 6.0.489 / Virová báze: 288 - datum vydání: 10.6.2003 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 12 16:27:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 12 16:27:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5589 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2003 16:27:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5584 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2003 16:27:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2003 16:27:37 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 74AD619A91; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 03:27:22 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from s-utl01-dapop.smtp.stsn.com (p4.n-dapop03.stsn.com [63.241.218.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9533A199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 03:27:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PRESTOT23 ([10.1.7.63]) by s-utl01-dapop.smtp.stsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Thu, 12 Jun 2003 02:30:21 -0500 Message-ID: <001501c330b0$918844b0$3f07010a@bl.belllabs.com> From: "david presotto" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030612034038.10370.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] another termrc gripe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Jun 2003 07:30:22.0093 (UTC) FILETIME=[7B82EBD0:01C330B4] Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 03:02:20 -0400 I'll do it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Schwartz" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 11:40 PM Subject: [9fans] another termrc gripe > Right now termrc unconditionally tells > timesync to assume the rtc is not GMT. > Writing > aux/timesync -r $TIMESYNCGMT -a $TIMESYNCACCURACY > would let us set TIMESYNCGMT in termrc.local. > > A similar environment variable, $USEDHCP say, > could control how ipconfig is launched. > > I do wish rc had non-env variables, because > otherwise these things leak into /env. > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 12 17:45:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 12 17:45:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8667 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2003 17:45:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8663 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2003 17:45:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2003 17:45:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E8C519A96; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 04:45:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE88E19A17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 04:44:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19QNbp-0003RO-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:39:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Andrei Maxim Message-ID: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Subject: [9fans] Plan9 - Should I try it? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 08:36:50 GMT Hello group, I've read a while a go the `Maximum Security' book as I was looking for more info about computers and some decent read during a long Amsterdam-Toronto flight. For the first time ever, I found some reference related to the Plan9 OS. As I grabbed the first computer with Internet access, I looked over Plan9's docs and I became more and more intrigued. In a couple of months I will be upgrading my Internet connection and I will have a stable 128 kbps transfer rate. My question is: should I give it a try right now or wait till it's better developed? I want to install it over an old computer, a 366 MHz Celeron with 64 MB RAM. The hard-disk is a Seagate Barracuda III with 30 GB. The modem is a 33.6 Kbps Rockwell model. On the main-board I have an integrated Yamaha OPL3 sound-card. The video card is an Intel i740 one. Thanks for your patience! -- Harder, better, faster, stronger... and I come on CDs too! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 12 17:55:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 12 17:55:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9054 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Jun 2003 17:55:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9050 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2003 17:55:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Jun 2003 17:55:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E6D9D19AA7; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 04:55:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from littlegreenmen.armory.com (littlegreenmen.armory.com [192.122.209.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0B5D919A64 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 04:54:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 29546 invoked by uid 713); 12 Jun 2003 08:54:40 -0000 From: Phil White To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan9 - Should I try it? Message-ID: <20030612085440.GA29207@littlegreenmen.armory.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 01:54:40 -0700 From my (mostly vicarious) experience, Plan 9 is not a trivial setup. However, I don't think it's going to be better developed anytime soon. Of course, I'm pretty far from the pulse of what's going on with plan 9. I'd say that it makes a fine project for fun. -Phil/CERisE On Thu, Jun 12, 2003 at 08:36:50AM +0000, Andrei Maxim wrote: > Hello group, > > I've read a while a go the `Maximum Security' book as I was looking > for more info about computers and some decent read during a long > Amsterdam-Toronto flight. For the first time ever, I found some > reference related to the Plan9 OS. As I grabbed the first computer > with Internet access, I looked over Plan9's docs and I became more and > more intrigued. > > In a couple of months I will be upgrading my Internet connection and I > will have a stable 128 kbps transfer rate. My question is: should I > give it a try right now or wait till it's better developed? > > I want to install it over an old computer, a 366 MHz Celeron with 64 > MB RAM. The hard-disk is a Seagate Barracuda III with 30 GB. The modem > is a 33.6 Kbps Rockwell model. On the main-board I have an integrated > Yamaha OPL3 sound-card. The video card is an Intel i740 one. > > Thanks for your patience! > > -- > Harder, better, faster, stronger... and I come on CDs too! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 13 01:23:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 13 01:23:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18885 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2003 01:23:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18881 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2003 01:23:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2003 01:23:36 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A38E819A64; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 12:23:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from larch (unknown [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F332419A6B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 12:22:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6bf10244867634eb55b950a88de8f208@snellwilcox.com> From: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] webcookies translator? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 17:22:42 +0100 Hi, Just before I write one, has somone got a cookie translator that can convert IE6 cookies into plan9 webcookies format ? I want to use hget for an internal site that needs a cookie to authenticate me. -Steve From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 13 01:31:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 13 01:31:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18957 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2003 01:31:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18953 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2003 01:31:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2003 01:31:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B985919999; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 12:31:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id EF28119A9A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 12:30:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 56782 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2003 16:30:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO proweb.co.uk) (192.168.1.100) by juice.thebigchoice.com with SMTP; 12 Jun 2003 16:30:20 -0000 Message-ID: <3EE8AA9C.6070609@proweb.co.uk> From: matt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] webcookies translator? References: <6bf10244867634eb55b950a88de8f208@snellwilcox.com> In-Reply-To: <6bf10244867634eb55b950a88de8f208@snellwilcox.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 17:30:20 +0100 > > >Just before I write one, has somone got a cookie translator that >can convert IE6 cookies into plan9 webcookies format > can't help you there >I want to use hget for an internal site that needs a >cookie to authenticate me. > > god forbid anyone should use http authentication From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 13 01:36:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 13 01:36:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19012 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2003 01:36:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19008 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2003 01:36:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2003 01:36:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1D77219A9C; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 12:36:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-08.noos.net [212.198.2.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 866C719A17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 12:35:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 16352604 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jun 2003 16:35:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.227]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.77 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 12 Jun 2003 16:35:54 -0000 Message-ID: <007e01c33100$aeedffe0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <6bf10244867634eb55b950a88de8f208@snellwilcox.com> <3EE8AA9C.6070609@proweb.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] webcookies translator? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 18:35:49 +0200 cookies are such a bad idea. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 13 02:37:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 13 02:37:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19895 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2003 02:37:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19891 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2003 02:37:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2003 02:37:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C198F19A8A; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:37:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8D09D199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:36:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Jun 12 13:36:07 EDT 2003 Received: from 64.36.89.66 ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Thu Jun 12 13:36:05 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <3b109b648bdee62d36d44fea0607a98d@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] webcookies translator? From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <6bf10244867634eb55b950a88de8f208@snellwilcox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:36:04 -0400 I usually copy the cookies out of lynx's cookie file. I don't remember how, but I remember it being straightforward. The IE cookies look straightforward too, though I'm not sure about the last few numbers in each batch -- you could get away with making up ages yourself, I bet. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 13 02:48:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 13 02:48:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20026 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2003 02:48:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20022 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2003 02:48:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2003 02:48:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 55E9919AA8; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:48:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-04.noos.net [212.198.2.73]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4FB7E19AA5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:47:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 6624145 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jun 2003 17:47:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.227]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.73 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 12 Jun 2003 17:47:44 -0000 Message-ID: <013501c3310a$b7a9d320$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3b109b648bdee62d36d44fea0607a98d@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] webcookies translator? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 19:47:39 +0200 documented protocols, anyone? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 13 02:52:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 13 02:52:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20079 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2003 02:52:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20075 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2003 02:52:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2003 02:52:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C734719AA9; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:52:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C41419A93 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:51:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Jun 12 13:51:15 EDT 2003 Received: from 64.36.89.66 ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Thu Jun 12 13:51:11 EDT 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] webcookies translator? From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <013501c3310a$b7a9d320$e3944251@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:51:11 -0400 the protocol's documented. the internal data file formats for ie are not. (the one for webcookies is.) surprised? i can't fault them for not documenting one of their internal files in a system that isn't meant for users to be looking at those files anyway. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 13 02:59:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 13 02:59:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20125 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2003 02:59:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20121 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2003 02:59:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2003 02:59:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 162AA19AAE; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:59:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-09.noos.net [212.198.2.80]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 901AB19A6B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:58:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 64401973 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jun 2003 17:58:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.227]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.80 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 12 Jun 2003 17:58:11 -0000 Message-ID: <016701c3310c$2d903560$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] webcookies translator? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 19:58:06 +0200 > i can't fault them for not documenting > one of their internal files in a system that > isn't meant for users to be looking at those > files anyway. well i can. even when they do document stuff it's written in a style of: - it does X - except in the case of Y - it does not X X & Y are verbose to the point of unintelligibility. so you just gotta figure it out :( From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 13 03:09:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 13 03:09:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20274 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2003 03:09:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20270 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2003 03:09:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2003 03:09:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E630F19AB3; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 14:09:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.com (193-199-28.dial.terra.cl [200.28.199.193]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8C43C19A0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 14:08:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 194.155.117.229 ([194.155.117.229]) by rsmail.alkoholic.net with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2003 19:23:35 -0700 Received: from group21.345mail.com ([58.210.202.218]) by mtu67.syds.piswix.net with smtp; 12 Jun 2003 12:14:49 -0300 Received: from rly04.hottestmile.com ([166.49.140.102]) by smtp.endend.nl with asmtp; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:06:03 +0900 Message-ID: From: "Norm Murphy" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 Subject: [9fans] dear 9fans, ple@se forward this to the seniors in your family Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: "Norm Murphy" List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 00:27:06 +0700 Rx medic@tions from Canada. We have some of the l0west prices for drugs in the world. Canada is the most reliable foreign source for prescriptions drugs. http://www.lowcostcanadarx.biz/ I d0nt want to recieve this anym0re: http://www.lowcostcanadarx.biz/cgi-bin/off_list.pl SiupqPyhtennhtt VxyQbvutlctl :) :):) :) a2 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 13 03:20:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 13 03:20:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20408 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2003 03:20:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20404 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2003 03:20:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2003 03:20:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A3BA619AB5; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 14:20:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 85DAE19A89 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 14:19:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16173 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 14:19:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) id h5CIJEc02476 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 14:19:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306121819.h5CIJEc02476@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] REMINDER: Plan 9 BoF tonight. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 14:19:14 -0400 (EDT) Just for those who can attend; there'll be a Plan 9 BoF session at the USENIX conference in San Antonio tonight. Rivercenter Marriot; I'm not entirely sure where (the Rivercenter Marriot is downtown, I'm just not sure where in the hotel the BoF is). No, I won't be bringing either the Harley or any guns, since apparantly, I can get a pass without them. Thanks to Ron for setting it up. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 13 03:35:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 13 03:35:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20520 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2003 03:35:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20516 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2003 03:35:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2003 03:35:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B78B219AB9; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 14:35:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-03.noos.net [212.198.2.72]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 38CD819A53 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 14:34:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 6608835 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jun 2003 18:34:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.227]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.72 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 12 Jun 2003 18:34:56 -0000 Message-ID: <018601c33111$4fd574a0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200306121819.h5CIJEc02476@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] REMINDER: Plan 9 BoF tonight. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 20:34:37 +0200 > Just for those who can attend; there'll be a Plan 9 BoF session at the > USENIX conference in San Antonio tonight. i think i'll just wear my bowling shirt and hit a bar or n :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 13 05:24:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 13 05:24:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22051 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2003 05:24:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22047 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2003 05:24:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2003 05:24:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BA07B199B9; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:24:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.184]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id BD16F199A3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:23:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-26-101.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.26.101 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jun 2003 20:23:32 -0000 Message-ID: <3EE8EEF9.1040306@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan9 - Should I try it? References: <20030612085440.GA29207@littlegreenmen.armory.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:22:01 -0500 > > >>From my (mostly vicarious) experience, Plan 9 is not a trivial setup. >However, I don't think it's going to be better developed anytime soon. >Of course, I'm pretty far from the pulse of what's going on with plan 9. >I'd say that it makes a fine project for fun. > Plan9's setup is becoming easier and easier. After I wrote a (very shabby) HOWTO on installing plan9 without rio, they made a text-only install option. Video cards support is growing and you no longer must have your specific card's info as the first ctlr (which helps autodetect video cards if the DID/VIDs and ROMline match). So, yes, things are getting much better. Plan 9 is definitely worth the small challenge of installation. In fact, it may make you a better hacker for your buck ;) It did me... Don http://deadchildren.org/~north_ > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 13 05:26:16 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 13 05:26:16 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22074 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2003 05:26:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22070 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2003 05:26:15 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2003 05:26:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 30D0919A19; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:26:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.180]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2E6DF19A19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:25:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-26-101.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.26.101 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jun 2003 20:25:05 -0000 Message-ID: <3EE8EF56.5040302@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] REMINDER: Plan 9 BoF tonight. References: <200306121819.h5CIJEc02476@augusta.math.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:23:34 -0500 > > >Just for those who can attend; there'll be a Plan 9 BoF session at the >USENIX conference in San Antonio tonight. Rivercenter Marriot; I'm not >entirely sure where (the Rivercenter Marriot is downtown, I'm just not >sure where in the hotel the BoF is). No, I won't be bringing either >the Harley or any guns, since apparantly, I can get a pass without them. > Lucky bastards! Have fun guys and drink a Guinness for me! Don http://deadchildren.org/~north_ > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 13 10:58:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 13 10:58:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30712 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2003 10:58:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30707 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2003 10:58:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2003 10:58:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5BD2419A00; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 21:58:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from yourwebsite.com (82-35-64-167.cable.ubr01.dals.blueyonder.co.uk [82.35.64.167]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C8A1A19A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 21:57:25 -0400 (EDT) From: mailto@mailto.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Message-Id: <20030613015725.C8A1A19A00@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] YOU WILL EARN $50,000 IN THE NEXT 60 DAYS IN YOUR PAYPAL Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: mailto@mailto.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 02:57:25 +0100 YOU WILL EARN $50,000 IN THE NEXT 60 DAYS IN YOUR PAYPAL ACCOUNT PLEASE READ CARFULLY DO NOT DELETE Are you sick of struggling to make ends meet? Do others always seem better off than you do? My name is Gordon Peters. In October 1999 I did not have a cent to my name. Due to the recession I lost my publishing business, my family ended up in a government department. My car was repossessed and debt collectors were making my life a misery… my life was a mess. In May 2000 out of the blue I received an email giving me the opportunity of earning $50,000 in just 60 days. Naturally I didn't believe a word of it. But hey what did I have to loose. By August of that year my life could not be more different. I had the means to buy my dream car a brand new BMW 3 Series Saloon, paid in cash. Since then I have bought a luxury 5 bedroom department with an indoor swimming pool. I will never have to work again. To date I have made an incredible $743,000 and I am on target to make my first million within the next year. The business plan works perfectly every time. I have never failed to earn over $50,000 in each time. This is a legitimate business opportunity, a perfect legal money making plan. It does not require you to sell anything or come into contact with anyone. And the best of all you only have to send a few emails. If you play the lottery and believe that one day o might just have a lucky break then this is the lucky break. All you need to do is act now. Simply follow these rules exactly, and start planning what to do when the cash comes rolling in. success is guaranteed. FOLLOW THESE INSTRUCTIONS EXACTLY WITHIN 60 DAYS YOU WILL HAVE RECEICED $50,000 IN YOUR PAYPAL ACCOUNT STEP1. Immediately send $1 to each of the five PAYPAL emails below by using your own PAYPAL account. The Type of payment is a service you have to select Service and in the Note write your name and email address and the words “please add my email to your email list”. This is a legitimate service for which you are paying $1. NOTE IF YOU FAIL TO DO THIS YO ARE OPERATING ILLEGALLY. ENSURE STEP 1 IS DONE BEFORE STEP 2. 1) robert_brown@mail2world.com 2) tornado5@hotmail.com 3) apcx83@dsl.pipex.com 4) rammy_nasser@hotmail.com 5) masr_uk2001@hotmail.com STEP2. Remove the email address at number 1 on the list, and move the others up one place, so that number 2 becomes number 1 and number 3 becomes number 2 and so on. Then place your email at position 5. Best way is to copy and paste the whole email into Notepad and edit the list. STEP3. Obtain 200 email addresses of opportunity seekers like yourself and send them by yourself or let them send it (charges a bit more). Go to for a list of email companies (the more email you send the more money you can earn). Keep a copy of this email so that you can use it whenever you please. Note: as soon as you send the emails you are in the email business and people are sending you a dollar to be placed on your email list. This is perfectly legal. Now here is the interesting part Based on a conservative response rate of 7.5% By sending out 200 emails 15 people will send you $1 = $15 Those 15 people will send out 200 emails 225 people will send you $1 = $225 Those 225 people will send out 200 emails 3375 people will send you $1 = $3375 Those 3375 people will send out 200 emails 50,625 people will send you $1 = $50,625 Total received by you will be $54,240 If you are undecided consider this. This is a way to make money that really dose work. If you follow the instructions exactly we will all be much better off. If you can afford it go for 250/300 or even 400 emails the rewards are much grater. YOU CAN'T LOSE! Ok you have initial expenses like email list and sending etc… but think of the massive gains $54,000 on only 7.5% return (after sending just 200 emails). What if the return was higher, 10% 15% or more? We will soon all be out of debt and very well off. FORGET THE LOTTERY-THIS IS CERTAIN TO MAKE YOU MONEY. Here is a comment from a participant in this scheme: Miss J Greenwood. I am sceptical by nature and have received three emails like this in the last six months. I am a single mother of three and barely had a penny to my name. As instructed I sent off 200 emails. Each day I checked my paypal account and nothing happened for 16 days. On the 17th day I received $167 and over the next three months $83,700 through my paypal account. I was speechless, this plan does work it has changed my life for the best. Two important points 1. As were all ordinary people trying to be secure, please play the game fairly. Be honest, and treat others playing how you would like to be treated. DO NOT TRY TO SHORTEN THE STAGES THE BENEFITS WILL BE MUCH LESS FOR EVERYONE. 2. Do give money to charity in recognition of your good fortune. If you are still sceptical please re-read this email and just think $50,000 in 60 days. What do you have to loose but $5 and some money for email list which should come to no more than $30/$40. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 13 15:06:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 13 15:06:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8368 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2003 15:06:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8364 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2003 15:06:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2003 15:06:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 55A0219A67; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 02:06:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sunny (unknown [210.78.22.15]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D8EA619A06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 02:05:39 -0400 (EDT) From: tony2003@yahoo.ca To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed;boundary= "----=_NextPart_000_0048_EEEAC0AB.68731E8E" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-Id: <20030613060539.D8EA619A06@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] Italian-crafted Rolex - only $65 - $140!! 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Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Jun 03 00:02:35 Öйú±ê׼ʱ¼ä ------=_NextPart_000_0048_EEEAC0AB.68731E8E Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PEJPRFkgYmdDb2xvcj0jZmZmZmZmPg0KPERJVj48U1RST05HPjxGT05UIGNvbG9yPSNmZjAw MDAgZmFjZT1WZXJkYW5hPlBsZWFzZSBub3RlIHRvIHNlbmQgQUxMIFJFUExZIA0KZS1tYWls IGRpcmVjdCB0byBvdXIgU2FsZXMgUmVwcmVzZW50YXRpdmUgYXQ6IDwvRk9OVD48L1NUUk9O Rz48QSANCmhyZWY9Im1haWx0bzpRdWVzdGlvbnNAU3dpc3NXYXRjaFNhbGUuY29tIj48U1RS T05HPjxGT05UIA0KZmFjZT1WZXJkYW5hPlF1ZXN0aW9uc0BTd2lzc1dhdGNoU2FsZS5jb208 L0ZPTlQ+PC9TVFJPTkc+PC9BPjxGT05UIGNvbG9yPSMwMDAwZmYgDQpmYWNlPVZlcmRhbmE+ PFNUUk9ORz4gPC9TVFJPTkc+PC9GT05UPjwvRElWPg0KPERJVj4mbmJzcDs8L0RJVj4NCjxE SVY+PEZPTlQgZmFjZT1WZXJkYW5hIHNpemU9Mj5IaSwmbmJzcDs8QlI+VGhhbmsgeW91IGZv 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PVZlcmRhbmE+PFNUUk9ORz4gPC9TVFJPTkc+PC9GT05UPjwvRElWPg0KPERJVj4mbmJzcDs8 L0RJVj4NCjxESVY+PEZPTlQgc2l6ZT0yPjwvRk9OVD4mbmJzcDs8L0RJVj48L0JPRFk+DQog ICAg ------=_NextPart_000_0048_EEEAC0AB.68731E8E-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 13 17:45:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 13 17:45:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15246 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2003 17:45:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15242 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2003 17:45:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2003 17:45:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 88C2419991; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 04:45:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7676F19991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 04:44:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19Qk5N-0007aV-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:39:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EE8B4AB.2B2DD319@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20030611230945.7057.qmail@web40409.mail.yahoo.com>, <008801c3306f$a5c72220$e3944251@insultant.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] Chaos anyone ? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:38:41 GMT "boyd, rounin" wrote: > From: "A. Baker" > > I'd (still) be (wildly) interested in comments of > > the security persuasion. > i'm sure Doug Gwyn can explain it far better than i have attempted to. It could turn into a very long technical discussion. The basic thing to appreciate is that chaotic behavior is far from random behavior. In fact it typically has long-range order that can be exploited. There is at least one published chaotic bit generator that has not yet (so far as I know) been shown to be distinguishable from a uniform-random bit generator, but since it is based on a simple deterministic formula one should feel uneasy about what developments the future might bring. (The simple formula is offset by a potentially unbounded amount of internal state; otherwise cracking the generator would be trivial.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 13 17:45:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 13 17:45:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15254 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2003 17:45:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15250 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2003 17:45:49 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2003 17:45:49 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 594CC19A75; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 04:45:17 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 07E6419A32 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 04:44:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19Qk5N-0007ab-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:39:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EE8B56B.F01BC5B4@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Subject: [9fans] Re: Plan9 - Should I try it? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:38:53 GMT Andrei Maxim wrote: > My question is: should I > give it a try right now or wait till it's better developed? There is no reason to wait; Plan9 continues to evolve but its outlines are pretty stable. There is also an offshoot Inferno that uses similar concepts in a more Java-like way. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 13 18:00:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 13 18:00:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15665 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2003 18:00:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15661 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2003 18:00:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2003 18:00:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6AA89199B6; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 05:00:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EC5DA199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 04:59:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 - Should I try it? From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <3EE8B56B.F01BC5B4@null.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:00:41 +0100 >>outlines are pretty stable. There is also an offshoot Inferno >>that uses similar concepts in a more Java-like way. God forbid: it's nothing like Java's way. all right, they both use virtual machines but so did UCSD Pascal and the similarity ends about there, partly because Inferno's designers thought about it first. and that's the hard part. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 13 18:07:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 13 18:07:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15953 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2003 18:07:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15949 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2003 18:07:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2003 18:07:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B910719A84; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 05:07:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-09.noos.net [212.198.2.80]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE7C019A32 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 05:06:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 64736345 invoked by uid 0); 13 Jun 2003 09:06:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.227]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.80 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 13 Jun 2003 09:06:22 -0000 Message-ID: <01a801c3318b$0b715de0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 - Should I try it? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:06:15 +0200 > ... but so did UCSD Pascal i'm reaching for my MP5 (sic) [revolver]. my god that was a horrible thing. on some fool's errand we turned it into something that allowed semaphores, threads etc ... ick VAX assembler ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 13 18:22:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 13 18:22:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16276 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2003 18:22:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16272 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2003 18:22:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2003 18:22:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DFAD719A99; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 05:22:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA7E319A27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 05:17:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h5D98unp007978 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:08:59 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h5D98sXC007977 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:08:54 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 - Should I try it? Message-ID: <20030613110853.I7499@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <3EE8B56B.F01BC5B4@null.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from Charles Forsyth on Fri, Jun 13, 2003 at 10:00:41AM +0100 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:08:53 +0200 On Fri, Jun 13, 2003 at 10:00:41AM +0100, Charles Forsyth wrote: > > God forbid: it's nothing like Java's way. > all right, they both use virtual machines but so did UCSD Pascal > and the similarity ends about there, partly because > Inferno's designers thought about it first. > and that's the hard part. The comparison is unavoidable, no matter the differences. Fortunately, the paper that addresses the comparison, dated as it is, does tell the truth. What's the URL? ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 13 19:07:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 13 19:07:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17453 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2003 19:07:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17449 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2003 19:07:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2003 19:07:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1BECA19A9A; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 06:07:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-04.noos.net [212.198.2.73]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6512E19A32 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 06:06:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 6997327 invoked by uid 0); 13 Jun 2003 10:06:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.227]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.73 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 13 Jun 2003 10:06:53 -0000 Message-ID: <01fb01c33193$7f239de0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3EE8B56B.F01BC5B4@null.net> <20030613110853.I7499@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 - Should I try it? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:06:45 +0200 > The comparison is unavoidable, no matter the differences. Fortunately, > the paper that addresses the comparison, dated as it is, does tell the > truth. What's the URL? damn, i'm confused. i was thinking about UCB pascal -- maybe that isn't even right 'cos it was a long time ago. that 'pi' thing. the only thing they have in common is the concept of a 'virtual machine'. pascal is a toy. java is a joke. limbo? well, i gotta lotta time for that language. the module loading is a bit tedious, but i can live with that. ever seen a lunix syscall trace of running python to the command line level? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 13 19:45:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 13 19:45:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18361 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2003 19:45:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18357 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2003 19:45:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2003 19:45:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 224ED19AAA; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 06:45:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BA44919A93 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 06:44:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19Qlsf-0001iG-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:34:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Andrei Maxim Message-ID: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK References: Subject: [9fans] Re: Plan9 - Should I try it? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:33:25 GMT Thank you very much for your replies. I found here even more help than in most of the Linux groups, as Mr. Forsyth already mailed me saying he might have a driver for my sound card. That being said, as soon as I'll upgrade my connection, I will download Plan9. Hard installs do not scare me as long as I have the specs of the hardware - after all, Debian is running on this Compaq laptop that came with no really technical specs. And, of course, if I fail, I assume I can always ask you :^) Again, thanks for the input! --Andrei Maxim -- Harder, better, faster, stronger... and I come on CDs too! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 13 19:56:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 13 19:56:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18609 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2003 19:56:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18605 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2003 19:56:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2003 19:56:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C678C19AB2; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 06:56:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 231D3199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 06:55:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DAtgCf025873 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:55:42 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DAtel2000486 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:55:40 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id h5DAte821136 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:55:40 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <200306131055.h5DAte821136@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with version: MH 6.8.3 #20[UCI] To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 - Should I try it? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:33:25 +0000." References: From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:55:39 +0200 > Mr. Forsyth already mailed me saying > he might have a driver for my sound card. which was an integrated Yamaha OPL3 sound-card I would be interested as well in such a driver, if it would support the Yamaha OPL3-SA3 which is inside ``our'' toshiba tecra 8000 laptop. Axel. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 13 20:18:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 13 20:18:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19095 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2003 20:18:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19091 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2003 20:18:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2003 20:18:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E072E19AB6; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 07:18:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from larch (unknown [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 751DA19A32 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 07:17:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-tynzcitkqhglhrxkiazbyhtfrn" Subject: [9fans] cookies Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:17:40 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-tynzcitkqhglhrxkiazbyhtfrn Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Answering my question, I wrote the cooke converter code attached. I am using cookies because is that we have a web based bullitin board here, behind the firewall, that uses a cookie for authentication, nothing secret, just to ensure posts have their owners names attached so I feel cookies are an apropriate level of security - no matter wat you all say :-) -Steve --upas-tynzcitkqhglhrxkiazbyhtfrn Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=cookconv.c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit /* cookieconv.c - convert Microsoft IE6 cookie files into webcookies(4) format */ #include #include #include int parse(char **args, int n) { char *name, *value, *path, *domain; vlong expire; int secure; if (strcmp(args[8], "*") != 0) return -1; name = args[0]; value = args[1]; if ((path = strchr(args[2], '/')) == nil) return -1; *path++ = 0; domain = args[2]; secure = atoi(args[3]) & 1; expire = atoll(args[4]) + (atoll(args[5]) << 32); expire /= 10000000LL; // nanosec to sec expire -= 11644473600LL; // MS epoch to POSIX epoch print("name=%s value=%s path=/%s domain=%s secure=%d expire=%ld\n", name, value, path, domain, secure, expire); return 0; } void main(int argc, char *argv[]) { int i, j; Biobuf *b; char *args[20]; // the most I have seen is 10 argv0 = argv[0]; while(argv++, --argc){ if ((b = Bopen(*argv, OREAD)) == nil){ fprint(2, "%s: %s cannot open - %r\n", argv0, *argv); continue; } while(1){ for (i = 0; i < nelem(args); i++){ if ((args[i] = Brdstr(b, '\n', 1)) == nil) goto fin; if (strcmp(args[i], "*") == 0){ parse(args, i); for (j = 0; j < i; j++) free(args[j]); break; } } } fin: Bterm(b); } } --upas-tynzcitkqhglhrxkiazbyhtfrn-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 13 21:49:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 13 21:49:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20579 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Jun 2003 21:49:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20575 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2003 21:49:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jun 2003 21:49:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 26A0819A8B; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:49:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from doppio.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0378519A0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:48:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <65389122ca3db3e1be23801ccd9872fc@vitanuova.com> From: C H Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 - Should I try it? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 13:52:26 +0100 >>Inferno's designers thought about it first. >>and that's the hard part. as i've been discovering today, though not for the first time... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 14 05:47:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 14 05:47:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26426 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Jun 2003 05:47:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26422 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2003 05:47:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Jun 2003 05:47:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3CC7519A9B; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 16:47:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from obrian.innerghost.net (unknown [217.129.245.211]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9CCB519A60 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 16:46:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from users.sourceforge.net (haven.innerghost.net [192.168.1.10]) by obrian.innerghost.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAA2E791 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 20:25:40 +0100 (WEST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Hugo Santos To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Subject: [9fans] auth failure Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 20:25:18 +0100 Hello, I just setuped a Plan9 CPU Server and was trying to connect to it using drawterm, but the authentication always fails. In plan9 i get the following in /sys/log/auth: ... tr-fail authid 192.168.1.12 ... tr-fail hostid hugo(192.168.1.12) ... tr-ok hugo@hugo(192.168.1.12) -> hugo@hugo ... tr-ok bootes@bootes(192.168.1.12) -> bootes@bootes I first tried to login using a user named 'hugo' which i created, but drawterm told me '?no match', then i tried with bootes, which hangs the login process, drawterm is still running and i can input text, but i dont get any more user prompts. Any ideas on what i've might been doing wrong? Hugo From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 14 05:48:02 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 14 05:48:02 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26434 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Jun 2003 05:48:02 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26430 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2003 05:48:02 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Jun 2003 05:48:02 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0340419AB7; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 16:47:19 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from wintermute.cse.psu.edu (wintermute.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.5]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 763BE19AC5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 16:46:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-03.noos.net [212.198.2.72]) by wintermute.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server (Backup MX)) with ESMTP id 69F3273D1B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 15:46:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 7290913 invoked by uid 0); 13 Jun 2003 19:37:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.227]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.72 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 13 Jun 2003 19:37:14 -0000 Message-ID: <004c01c331e3$2e4f6c00$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <65389122ca3db3e1be23801ccd9872fc@vitanuova.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 - Should I try it? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 21:37:09 +0200 > as i've been discovering today, though not for the first time... yes, an extremely impressive piece of work. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 14 06:33:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 14 06:33:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26937 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Jun 2003 06:33:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26933 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2003 06:33:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Jun 2003 06:33:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 016BE19AC1; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 17:33:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from obrian.innerghost.net (unknown [217.129.245.211]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3546A19A60 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 17:32:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from users.sourceforge.net (haven.innerghost.net [192.168.1.10]) by obrian.innerghost.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0198E791; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 22:33:10 +0100 (WEST) Subject: Re: [9fans] auth failure Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu To: andrey mirtchovski From: Hugo Santos In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <94095D54-9DE6-11D7-B477-000A9579613E@users.sourceforge.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 22:32:48 +0100 Yes, the account didn't exist, i did changeuser on the wrong user, it is ok now. the problem seems to be with drawterm, authentication works fine now, and using cpu in the cpuserver works too, just drawterm doesn't. Hugo > 'no match' means that you have the password set wrong (use > auth/changeuser > to set it to known values).. > > i don't know about the other stuff.. can you cpu to the machine from > the > login prompt? look for anything wrong in /net/ndb, or check the login > with > auth/debug.. > > andrey > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 14 06:39:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 14 06:39:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26967 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Jun 2003 06:39:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26963 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2003 06:39:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Jun 2003 06:39:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EE4A319AC4; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 17:39:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-06.noos.net [212.198.2.75]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA97C19A78 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 17:38:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 8607545 invoked by uid 0); 13 Jun 2003 21:38:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.227]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.75 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 13 Jun 2003 21:38:23 -0000 Message-ID: <00ba01c331f4$1abed0c0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <94095D54-9DE6-11D7-B477-000A9579613E@users.sourceforge.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] auth failure MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 23:38:18 +0200 > 'no match' means that you ... did you? set nonomatch :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 14 08:31:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 14 08:31:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28017 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Jun 2003 08:31:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28013 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2003 08:31:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Jun 2003 08:31:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A15CA19A65; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 19:31:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 54E8A19A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 19:30:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 - Should I try it? From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <004c01c331e3$2e4f6c00$e3944251@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 00:30:40 +0100 > i said: >> as i've been discovering today, though not for the first time... >yes, an extremely impressive piece of work. ah. yes i agree about Inferno, but what i meant with that last remark was: it's the thinking before doing that's often the hard part [regardless of subject or context]. -- It's a very good idea to compare apples and oranges, that's a big part of what thinking is about. - Penn Jillette From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 14 08:38:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 14 08:38:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28099 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Jun 2003 08:38:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28095 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2003 08:38:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Jun 2003 08:38:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C431D19A8F; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 19:38:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3509019988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 19:37:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 - Should I try it? From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 00:38:09 +0100 >>it's the thinking before doing that's often the >>hard part [regardless of subject or context]. having said that, it's sometimes just as troublesome the other way, and indeed i've often been tempted not to do something because i could think of any number of reasons why it might not be satisfactory; but in practice if i overcame my qualms it worked very well, or at least after experiment it could be refined to work very well. -- ``Eventually, I decided that thinking was not getting me very far and it was time to try building.'' - Rob Pike From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 15 09:06:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 15 09:06:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20381 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2003 09:06:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20377 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2003 09:06:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2003 09:06:36 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 59B4619A6F; Sat, 14 Jun 2003 20:06:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-06.noos.net [212.198.2.75]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0153319A2A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 14 Jun 2003 20:05:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 9371801 invoked by uid 0); 15 Jun 2003 00:05:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.227]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.75 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 15 Jun 2003 00:05:32 -0000 Message-ID: <007101c332d1$d3bf7740$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 - Should I try it? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 02:05:24 +0200 > it's the thinking before doing that's often the > hard part [regardless of subject or context]. yup. i knew. and sometimes, doing nothing is best. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 15 13:02:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 15 13:02:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24208 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2003 13:02:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24204 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2003 13:02:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2003 13:02:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7811C19A53; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 00:02:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.fywss.com (unknown [207.245.2.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A024219A28 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 00:01:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from steve@localhost) by smtp.fywss.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h5F413U17301 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 00:01:03 -0400 From: steve-9fans@fywss.com.ca Message-Id: <200306150401.h5F413U17301@smtp.fywss.com> X-Authentication-Warning: burly.fywss.com: steve set sender to steve-9fans@fywss.com.ca using -f To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] [reminder] pointer to Plan 9 FAQ Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 00:01:03 -0400 The Plan 9 faq is posted to comp.os.plan9 at the beginning of each month. It is also at news.answers archive sites, look for comp-os/plan9-faq The latest hypertext version of the faq is available at url http://www.fywss.com/plan9/plan9faq.html To reply directly to this message, remove the '.ca' from my address. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 15 19:14:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 15 19:14:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31088 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Jun 2003 19:14:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31084 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2003 19:14:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Jun 2003 19:14:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2268719A66; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 06:14:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cheerful.com (unknown [200.196.234.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 19C7719A33 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 06:13:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown (HELO smtp18.yenddx.com) (58.239.103.177) by rly04.hottestmile.com with QMQP; Sat, 14 Jun 2003 17:25:02 +0700 Received: from relay-x.misswldrs.com ([4.186.221.200]) by mail.webhostings4u.com with smtp; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 00:18:33 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.doneohx.com) (92.248.36.108) by relay-x.misswldrs.com with esmtp; 15 Jun 2003 01:12:04 +1000 Received: from [6.217.14.37] by smtp.doneohx.com with local; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 11:05:35 -0100 Message-ID: <720f01c33323$8651b700$a911f97e@uqjhwrv> From: "Tom Pecarski" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 Subject: [9fans] dear 9fans, Now you can s@ve on prescription drugs Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: "Tom Pecarski" List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 22:50:16 -1100 Don't pay U.S. prices for your drugs. You will s@ve so much compared to U.S. drug stores. All medic@tions are approved by licensed Canadian doctors & pharm@cists. http://www.lowcostcanadarx.biz/ Ple@se rem0ve: http://www.lowcostcanadarx.biz/cgi-bin/off_list.pl CybQhwbr KahnxhqMceultpap :) :):) :) a3 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 16 08:08:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 16 08:08:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10330 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Jun 2003 08:08:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10326 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2003 08:08:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Jun 2003 08:08:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 42F16199ED; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 19:08:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from unix127.hosting-network.com (unknown [66.186.208.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A99B2199A3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 19:07:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 80696 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2003 23:09:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cc77109e) (203.51.74.192) by 66.186.208.13 with SMTP; 15 Jun 2003 23:09:20 -0000 X-Comments: BlackMail headers - Mail to abuse@featureprice.com to report spam. X-Authenticated-Connect: 203.51.74.192 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 19:09:20(EDT) on June 15, 2003 X-HELO-From: cc77109e X-Mail-From: X-Sender-IP-Address: 203.51.74.192 Message-ID: <003901c33393$553f80a0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [9fans] readnvram Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:10:07 +1000 I added the following entries to nvtab in libauthsrv/readnvram.c diff /n/sources/plan9/sys/src/libauthsrv/readnvram.c . 29a30,31 > "pc", "#S/sdC1/nvram", 0, sizeof(Nvrsafe), > "pc", "#S/sdC1/9fat", -1, sizeof(Nvrsafe), The approach seems somewhat haphazard but it now works for me. brucee From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 16 08:59:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 16 08:59:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11253 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Jun 2003 08:59:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11249 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2003 08:59:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Jun 2003 08:59:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0C6FA19A33; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 19:59:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2144B1998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 19:57:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp ([61.211.130.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 16 08:57:53 JST 2003 Subject: Re: [9fans] FYI: Plan9 on VPC6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <2D23AD10-9F8D-11D7-92D0-000393A941BC@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:57:52 +0900 Hello, Some days ago yi.li@wilabs.com wrote: >For those of you who want to run Plan9 on your ibook, you may >try Virtual PC from Connectix. I tried it yesterday and it worked >out pretty well. Where did you get 2104x ether driver for Plan9? Kenji Arisawa From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 16 11:20:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 16 11:20:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17630 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Jun 2003 11:20:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17626 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2003 11:20:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Jun 2003 11:20:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0C58119A69; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 22:20:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 25357199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 22:19:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18559; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 22:19:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) id h5G2J0F21742; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 22:19:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306160219.h5G2J0F21742@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] readnvram Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <003901c33393$553f80a0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: brucee@chunder.com Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 22:19:00 -0400 (EDT) In article <003901c33393$553f80a0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> you write: >I added the following entries to nvtab in libauthsrv/readnvram.c > >diff /n/sources/plan9/sys/src/libauthsrv/readnvram.c . >29a30,31 >> "pc", "#S/sdC1/nvram", 0, sizeof(Nvrsafe), >> "pc", "#S/sdC1/9fat", -1, sizeof(Nvrsafe), > >The approach seems somewhat haphazard but it now >works for me. Hmm; why not just set the nvram= environment variable in plan9.ini? Not that I object to these being in the table, of course.... - Dan C. (ps- I envy you your beach. :-) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 16 12:34:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 16 12:34:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20968 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Jun 2003 12:33:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20957 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2003 12:33:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Jun 2003 12:33:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EC3FB19A2D; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 23:33:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from unix127.hosting-network.com (unknown [66.186.208.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 6B0CD199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 23:32:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 4811 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2003 03:34:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cc77109e) (203.51.74.192) by 66.186.208.13 with SMTP; 16 Jun 2003 03:34:48 -0000 X-Comments: BlackMail headers - Mail to abuse@featureprice.com to report spam. X-Authenticated-Connect: 203.51.74.192 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 23:34:48(EDT) on June 15, 2003 X-HELO-From: cc77109e X-Mail-From: X-Sender-IP-Address: 203.51.74.192 Message-ID: <009e01c333b8$6b1875b0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200306160219.h5G2J0F21742@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] readnvram Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:35:36 +1000 Hmm; no excuse except that it ain't in the manual. I guess i could have read the source before hacking the table. Whatever. > Hmm; why not just set the nvram= environment variable in plan9.ini? > > - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 16 18:30:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 16 18:30:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5286 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Jun 2003 18:30:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5281 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2003 18:30:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Jun 2003 18:30:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6FB5819A6B; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 05:30:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0588D19A2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 05:29:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19RqIP-00048t-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:29:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: orr721 Message-ID: Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] vga problems with NeoMagic MagicMedia 256AV+ Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:26:44 GMT hi, is there anything i can do to get rio start on neomagic MagicMedia 256AV+ on my sony vaio notebook (SONY vaio PCG-F707)? this is what aux/vga -Vip tells me in vgainfo.txt: neomagic: DID 0025 unsupported the corresponding entry in vgadb is.. ---- ctlr # vid=0x10C8 did=0x0001 # MagicGraph 128, not supported # vid=0x10C8 did=0x0002 # MagicGraph 128 V, not supported # vid=0x10C8 did=0x0003 # MagicGraph 128 ZV, not supported # vid=0x10C8 did=0x0083 # MagicGraph 128 ZV+, not supported vid=0x10C8 did=0x0004 # MagicGraph 128 XD vid=0x10C8 did=0x0005 # MagicMedia 256 AV vid=0x10C8 did=0x0006 # MagicMedia 256 ZX 0xC0048="MagicMedia 256AV+ 48K" # --i ADDED this line-- 0xC0048="MagicGraph 128XD" # IBM Thinkpad 560X 0xC0048="MagicMedia 256AV" # IBM Thinkpad 600E 0xC0048="MagicGraph 256 AV" # IBM Thinkpad 570,600E 0xC0048="MagicMedia 256ZX" # IBM Thinkpad 600X ctlr=neomagic linear=1 hwgc=neomagichwgc ---- i even tried adding something like vid=0x10C8 did=0x0025 # MagicMedia 256AV+ as a first entry after ctrl, but nothing changed.. thanks, orr721 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 16 18:30:51 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 16 18:30:51 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5312 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Jun 2003 18:30:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5301 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2003 18:30:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Jun 2003 18:30:48 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5183D19A7A; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 05:30:19 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 31B3019A3E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 05:29:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19RqIP-00048z-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:29:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Wesley Parish Message-ID: Organization: TelstraClear Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit References: , <3EE5F06E.3040106@proweb.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] Installing Plan9 to bochs Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: paradiseDOROTHYnetDOROTHYnz!wesDOROTHYparish@uunet.uu.net List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:26:58 GMT I found it didn't read the emulated cdrom. So I'm having to copy the cdrom-stuff over to the emulated hard drive. It'd give me grey hairs, it I hadn't already started on getting them. Thanks Wesley Parish matt wrote: > Wesley Parish wrote: > >>It's actually underway as I write! >> >>Will keep you posted. >> >>Wesley Parish >> >> > g.l. > > I tried on May 28 th > > I reported it not working at the end of last year > > and the bug got closed with this comment : > > Date: 2003-01-18 04:35 > > Sender: cbothamy > Logged In: YES > > It works here on current cvs, ips=5000000. I booted from a > floppy downloaded from http://plan9.bell-labs.com. The > graphic install process wants a frame buffer, so > installation is only available in texte mode. > > > > %cat bochslog > > 00000000000i[MEM0 ] allocated memory at 0x825d000. after alignment, > vector=0x825d000 > 00000000000i[MEM0 ] 32.00MB > 00000000000i[MEM0 ] rom at 0xf0000/65536 > ('/usr/local/share/bochs/bios/BIOS-bochs-latest') > 00000000000i[MEM0 ] rom at 0xc0000/32769 > ('/usr/local/share/bochs/bios/VGABIOS-elpin-2.40') > 00000000000i[CMOS ] Setting initial clock to: Wed May 28 00:08:01 2003 > (time0=1054076881) > 00000000000i[DMA ] channel 4 used by cascade > 00000000000i[DMA ] channel 2 used by Floppy Drive > 00000000000i[FDD ] fd0: '9disk.flp' ro=0, h=2,t=80,spt=18 > 00000000000i[FDD ] tried to open b.img read/write: No such file or > directory > 00000000000i[FDD ] tried to open b.img read only: No such file or > directory > 00000000000i[FDD ] fd1: 'b.img' ro=1, h=0,t=0,spt=0 > 00000000000i[XGUI ] test_alloc_colors: 16 colors available out of 16 > colors tried > 00000000000i[XGUI ] font 8 wide x 16 high, display depth = 24 > 00000000000i[VGA ] interval=300000 > 00000000000i[ ] init_mem of 'harddrv' plugin device by virtual method > 00000000000i[ ] init_mem of 'keyboard' plugin device by virtual method > 00000000000i[ ] init_mem of 'serial' plugin device by virtual method > 00000000000i[ ] init_mem of 'parallel' plugin device by virtual method > 00000000000i[ ] init_mem of 'ne2k' plugin device by virtual method > 00000000000i[ ] init_dev of 'harddrv' plugin device by virtual method > 00000000000i[HD ] HD on ata0-0: 'plan9.bochs_hd' > 00000000000i[HD ] translation on ata0-0 set to 'none' > 00000000000i[HD ] Boot device will be 'a' > 00000000000i[HD ] Floppy boot signature check is enabled > 00000000000i[ ] init_dev of 'keyboard' plugin device by virtual method > 00000000000i[KBD ] will paste characters every 1000 keyboard ticks > 00000000000i[ ] init_dev of 'serial' plugin device by virtual method > 00000000000i[SER ] com1 at 0x3f8/8 irq 4 > 00000000000i[ ] init_dev of 'parallel' plugin device by virtual method > 00000000000i[PAR ] parallel port 1 at 0x378 > 00000000000i[ ] init_dev of 'ne2k' plugin device by virtual method > 00000000000i[NE2K ] port 0x280/32 irq 9 mac b0:c4:20:00:00:00 > 00000000000i[ ] reset of 'harddrv' plugin device by virtual method > 00000000000i[ ] reset of 'keyboard' plugin device by virtual method > 00000000000i[ ] reset of 'serial' plugin device by virtual method > 00000000000i[ ] reset of 'parallel' plugin device by virtual method > 00000000000i[ ] reset of 'ne2k' plugin device by virtual method > 00000000000i[XGUI ] [x] Mouse off > 00000004256i[BIOS ] rombios.c,v 1.85.2.1 2003/01/16 21:58:42 cbothamy Exp > $ > 00000318073i[KBD ] reset-disable command received > 00000476377i[HD ] enabling LBA mode > 00000481983i[BIOS ] ata0-0: PCHS=60/16/63 translation=none LCHS=60/16/63 > 00000499628e[HD ] device set to 1 which does not exist > 00000931122i[BIOS ] *** int 15h function AX=5304, BX=0000 not yet > supported! 00000935536i[BIOS ] *** int 15h function AX=5303, BX=0000 not > yet supported! > 00003384123i[HD ] enabling LBA mode > 00277037777i[NE2K ] TCR write, loop mode 1 not supported > 00277037788i[NE2K ] RCR write, monitor bit set! > 01968892253i[HD ] enabling LBA mode > 02107337393i[CPU ] PE is 1 > 02107337393i[CPU ] VM is 0 > 02107337393i[CPU ] CPL is 3 > 02107337393i[CPU ] IOPL is 0 > 02107337393i[CPU ] addr is 22104 > 02107337393i[CPU ] len is 4 > 02107337393p[CPU ] >>PANIC<< allow_io(): TR:io_base <= 103 > 02107337393i[SYS ] Last time is 1054078988 > 02107337393i[XGUI ] Exit. > 02107337393i[CPU ] protected mode > 02107337393i[CPU ] CS.d_b = 32 bit > 02107337393i[CPU ] SS.d_b = 32 bit > 02107337393i[CPU ] | EAX=564d5868 EBX=00000000 ECX=0000000a > EDX=00005658 > 02107337393i[CPU ] | ESP=7fffeef0 EBP=7fffef20 ESI=00007d3c > EDI=7fffef20 > 02107337393i[CPU ] | IOPL=0 NV UP EI PL ZR NA PE NC > 02107337393i[CPU ] | SEG selector base limit G D > 02107337393i[CPU ] | SEG sltr(index|ti|rpl) base limit G D > 02107337393i[CPU ] | DS:001b( 0003| 0| 3) 00000000 000fffff 1 1 > 02107337393i[CPU ] | ES:001b( 0003| 0| 3) 00000000 000fffff 1 1 > 02107337393i[CPU ] | FS:001b( 0003| 0| 3) 00000000 000fffff 1 1 > 02107337393i[CPU ] | GS:001b( 0003| 0| 3) 00000000 000fffff 1 1 > 02107337393i[CPU ] | SS:001b( 0003| 0| 3) 00000000 000fffff 1 1 > 02107337393i[CPU ] | CS:0023( 0004| 0| 3) 00000000 000fffff 1 1 > 02107337393i[CPU ] | EIP=0000118d (0000118c) > 02107337393i[CPU ] | CR0=0x80010039 CR1=0x00000000 CR2=0x000043fc > 02107337393i[CPU ] | CR3=0x0157d000 CR4=0x00000000 > 02107337393i[ ] restoring default signal behavior > 02107337393i[CTRL ] quit_sim called with exit code 1 -- First the wife, tone of awe. So much a condition. Kent in the labs, fast forward. "So how was the worthlessful businessman?" But they hadn't stopped meat for year ago, that arose hotel facade slowly moved apper. - Don't let emacs meta-x dissociatedpress write your speeches! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 17 05:15:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 17 05:15:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16417 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Jun 2003 05:15:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16413 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2003 05:15:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Jun 2003 05:15:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0631A19A77; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:15:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 76FA519A0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:14:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GKEe7B020130 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:14:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Skip Tavakkolian" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] disabled account Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:17:52 -0700 What are all the possible ways an account would be disabled by auth? I had a case earlier where one account was disabled but I don't ever recall running auth/disable or any inadvertent 'echo disable >/mnt/keys/$user/status' on the auth box. Weird?! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 17 05:28:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 17 05:28:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16600 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Jun 2003 05:28:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16596 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2003 05:28:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Jun 2003 05:28:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E731A19A7B; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:28:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6172619A40 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:27:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Jun 16 16:27:21 EDT 2003 Received: from 18.24.6.205 ([18.24.6.205]) by plan9; Mon Jun 16 16:27:19 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <77e5d133b399722759a561190b82a94a@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] disabled account From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:27:21 -0400 Accounts get disabled if you have too many auth failures. Playing with aquarela seems to be an excellent way to do this. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 17 05:30:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 17 05:30:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16622 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Jun 2003 05:30:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16618 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2003 05:30:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Jun 2003 05:30:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B6B5C19A81; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:30:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4928819A6C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:30:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3edef65e9dc3c8409d4a8fd27da52112@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] disabled account In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-inboqrpbpoozvbmpvncbimqeok" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:29:58 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-inboqrpbpoozvbmpvncbimqeok Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I should change the semantics of the authsrv to just disable accounts for 5 seconds or so after 3 failed attempts instead of disabling them altogether. --upas-inboqrpbpoozvbmpvncbimqeok Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Jun 16 16:15:28 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Mon Jun 16 16:15:25 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AA73719A40; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:15:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 76FA519A0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:14:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GKEe7B020130 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:14:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Skip Tavakkolian" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] disabled account Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:17:52 -0700 What are all the possible ways an account would be disabled by auth? I had a case earlier where one account was disabled but I don't ever recall running auth/disable or any inadvertent 'echo disable >/mnt/keys/$user/status' on the auth box. Weird?! --upas-inboqrpbpoozvbmpvncbimqeok-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 17 06:09:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 17 06:09:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17360 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Jun 2003 06:09:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17356 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2003 06:09:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Jun 2003 06:09:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2241819A8C; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:09:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E8A4E19A6C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:08:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <983a13f38310d534324518b5d6ae8244@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] account disabled Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:08:46 -0400 I changed auth/keyfs to only disable your account for 10 seconds after each 10 successive failed attempts. The old behaviour was to disable it until operator intervention on the auth server. This should be a little more user friendly without really allowing heavy probing. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 17 07:31:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 17 07:31:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18449 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Jun 2003 07:31:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18445 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2003 07:31:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Jun 2003 07:31:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B0F4D19A63; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:31:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 436C919A04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:30:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GMUk7B026758 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:30:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <9fd1f7e1ff59f465dc012618cf4b7b80@centurytel.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] disabled account From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: <77e5d133b399722759a561190b82a94a@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:33:58 -0700 > Playing with aquarela > seems to be an excellent way to do this. Mystery solved. Thanks. I was starting to get real paranoid. P.S. In "Bourne Identity" was Jason a clairvoyant too? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 17 07:41:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 17 07:41:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18551 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Jun 2003 07:41:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18547 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2003 07:41:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Jun 2003 07:41:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6185719A8D; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:41:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3354B19992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:40:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4bce87a7a248900c911854a2356af190@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] disabled account From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <9fd1f7e1ff59f465dc012618cf4b7b80@centurytel.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-tkvzgvkeextgngtpxafizfqhhh" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:39:18 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-tkvzgvkeextgngtpxafizfqhhh Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit no, you're confusing him with Spiderman. --upas-tkvzgvkeextgngtpxafizfqhhh Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 1055802722:20:03397:13; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:32:02 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2115183; 16 Jun 2003 22:31 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B0F4D19A63; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:31:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 436C919A04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:30:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GMUk7B026758 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:30:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <9fd1f7e1ff59f465dc012618cf4b7b80@centurytel.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] disabled account From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: <77e5d133b399722759a561190b82a94a@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:33:58 -0700 > Playing with aquarela > seems to be an excellent way to do this. Mystery solved. Thanks. I was starting to get real paranoid. P.S. In "Bourne Identity" was Jason a clairvoyant too? --upas-tkvzgvkeextgngtpxafizfqhhh-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 17 08:44:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 17 08:44:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19571 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Jun 2003 08:44:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19567 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2003 08:44:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Jun 2003 08:44:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D62519A93; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 19:44:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4213B19A82 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 19:43:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: Geoff Collyer To: 9fans@collyer.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Plan 9 Usenix BOF, 12 June 2003 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:43:28 -0700 It was a smaller BOF than some, but lively. Other 9fans in attendance included Dave Presotto of Bell Labs, Ron Minnich and Andrey Mirtchovski of Los Alamos National Laboratories, Dan Cross, Eric Van Hensbergen, now of IBM Austin Research, and Tom Glinos of the University of Toronto. Also in attendance was Andrew Hume of AT&T Research. There were others, many of whom I didn't recognise by sight, probably 30 or so in total. Though much anticipated, no one from Hanger 18 attended (or at least they didn't identify themselves). No guns nor Harleys were in evidence. The licence has been changed and I don't really understand the implications, except that the Open Source Institute blessed the penultimate version and declared it officially ``open source''. See plan9.bell-labs.com/hidden/nntemplate.html. It might be worth pointing the OpenBSD folks at this licence if they are serious about using the Plan 9 C compilers. The LANL folks demonstrated their little diskless 4-machine cluster using Linuxbios and running Plan 9. Dave Presotto announced that pxeload is working and that he will push ipv6config and more power pc ports out to sources. IPSEC is not happening, but he'd like to add process migration. Russ Cox is preparing a new distribution (5e?). Rob Pike had a fairly serious bicycle accident 2 - 3 weeks ago and I'm sure we all wish him well. He has been back at work at Google part-time. I can't recall much else, but the BOF ran for two hours and a good time was had by most, if not all. Many people adjourned to the hotel bar (or just outside it, as Texas and San Antonio apparently have no non-smoking laws). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 17 08:52:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 17 08:52:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19712 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Jun 2003 08:52:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19708 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2003 08:52:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Jun 2003 08:52:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0C29519A8E; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 19:52:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 480B319A0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 19:51:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h5GNpCBL026957; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:51:12 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h5GNpC9P020326; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:51:12 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: 9fans@collyer.net Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Usenix BOF, 12 June 2003 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:51:12 -0600 (MDT) I think the big excitement was the announcement that Plan 9 is going to be open source. This opens it up to manuy new users that could not touch it before. Great news. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 17 08:52:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 17 08:52:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19724 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Jun 2003 08:52:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19720 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2003 08:52:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Jun 2003 08:52:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 493E119A98; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 19:52:18 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8252C19A6C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 19:51:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net ([10.9.0.3]) by collyer.net; Mon Jun 16 16:51:14 PDT 2003 Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov ([128.165.4.101]) by collyer.net; Mon Jun 16 16:51:13 PDT 2003 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h5GNpCBL026957; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:51:12 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h5GNpC9P020326; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:51:12 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: 9fans@collyer.net Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Usenix BOF, 12 June 2003 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:51:12 -0600 (MDT) I think the big excitement was the announcement that Plan 9 is going to be open source. This opens it up to manuy new users that could not touch it before. Great news. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 17 11:25:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 17 11:25:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26727 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Jun 2003 11:25:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26723 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2003 11:25:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Jun 2003 11:25:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5C7CC19A85; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:25:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 70D9E1998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:24:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Jun 16 22:24:42 EDT 2003 Received: from 64.36.89.66 ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Mon Jun 16 22:24:40 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <8a018802bb7bac74677289f3e9f79717@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Usenix BOF, 12 June 2003 From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:24:42 -0400 > The licence has been changed and I don't really understand the > implications, except that the Open Source Institute blessed the > penultimate version and declared it officially ``open source''. See > plan9.bell-labs.com/hidden/nntemplate.html. It might be worth > pointing the OpenBSD folks at this licence if they are serious about > using the Plan 9 C compilers. Try http://plan9.bell-labs.com/hidden/newlicense.html for the real (i.e., non-templated) one. > Russ Cox is preparing a new distribution (5e?). I am? I mean, I am. There were plenty of little nits with the install process that needed fixing, so this is taking a bit longer than I had hoped. I also wanted to include some real content rather than just a new license, so the new install will set up fossil and venti servers if you so choose. I don't think there's enough that changed to warrant calling it 5e, though. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 17 11:36:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 17 11:36:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27117 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Jun 2003 11:36:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27113 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2003 11:36:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Jun 2003 11:36:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4FA2919AA0; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:36:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.182]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 184B219A6C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:35:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.74.10.80 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2003 02:35:53 -0000 Message-ID: <3EEE8973.1010603@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Usenix BOF, 12 June 2003 References: <8a018802bb7bac74677289f3e9f79717@plan9.bell-labs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:22:27 -0500 > > >I am? I mean, I am. There were plenty of little nits with the >install process that needed fixing, so this is taking a bit longer >than I had hoped. I also wanted to include some real content >rather than just a new license, so the new install will set up >fossil and venti servers if you so choose. I don't think there's >enough that changed to warrant calling it 5e, though. > Should we be getting ready for driver interfaces to change? Network driver interfaces, dev.c changes, etc? Don > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 17 11:40:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 17 11:40:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27261 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Jun 2003 11:40:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27257 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2003 11:40:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Jun 2003 11:40:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6E92119AA1; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:40:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8221319A9F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:39:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Jun 16 22:39:26 EDT 2003 Received: from 64.36.89.66 ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Mon Jun 16 22:39:24 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <4ba6ebebc78be0453460c1d6f4bcd06f@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Usenix BOF, 12 June 2003 From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <3EEE8973.1010603@ameritech.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:39:34 -0400 > Should we be getting ready for driver interfaces to change? > Network driver interfaces, dev.c changes, etc? No, not at all. Almost all the source changes that will be in the new distribution are already on sources. There are no fundamental changes to Plan 9 in the forseeable future. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 17 11:54:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 17 11:54:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27806 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Jun 2003 11:54:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27802 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2003 11:54:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Jun 2003 11:54:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CBD8C19AAC; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:54:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.180]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B0D9019AA4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:53:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.74.10.80 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2003 02:53:12 -0000 Message-ID: <3EEE8D86.8020202@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Usenix BOF, 12 June 2003 References: <4ba6ebebc78be0453460c1d6f4bcd06f@plan9.bell-labs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:39:50 -0500 > > >No, not at all. Almost all the source changes that will be >in the new distribution are already on sources. >There are no fundamental changes to Plan 9 in the >forseeable future. > Oh, awesome. Then, I'll actually have some code to contribute in the near future. 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Sadanand From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 17 20:52:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 17 20:52:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16117 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Jun 2003 20:52:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16113 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2003 20:52:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Jun 2003 20:52:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B39CB19A9F; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 07:52:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from hoemail2.firewall.lucent.com (hoemail2.lucent.com [192.11.226.163]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7077A199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 07:51:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ma8117exch001u.wins.lucent.com (h152-148-89-175.lucent.com [152.148.89.175]) by hoemail2.firewall.lucent.com (Switch-2.2.0/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id h5HBp6A29710 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 06:51:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: by ma8117exch001u.inse.lucent.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 07:51:06 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Warrier, Sadanand (Sadanand)" To: "'9fans@cse.psu.edu'" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain Subject: [9fans] RE: Accident Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 07:50:58 -0400 Sorry about that mail. I always send things to the wrong place. S From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 17 23:31:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 17 23:31:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19008 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Jun 2003 23:31:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19004 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2003 23:31:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Jun 2003 23:31:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F03D119A25; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:31:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5B16B19992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:30:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12215 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:30:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5HEUS500781 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:30:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306171430.h5HEUS500781@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] RE: Accident In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 17 Jun 2003 07:50:58 EDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:30:28 -0400 > Sorry about that mail. I always send things to the wrong place. That's all right. We'll all know that Rob is all right when he posts some witty rejoinder to your (small) goof. So in final effect, your email acheived its purpose quite admirably. :-) - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 17 23:38:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 17 23:38:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19127 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Jun 2003 23:38:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19123 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2003 23:38:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Jun 2003 23:38:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6402C19A0D; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:38:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from wintermute.cse.psu.edu (wintermute.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.5]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4015F199A3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:37:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from compuserve.com (port-212-202-50-118.reverse.qsc.de [212.202.50.118]) by wintermute.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server (Backup MX)) with SMTP id 1CBEE73CB7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:37:47 -0400 (EDT) From: card@radiks.net To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <2F63K3GA8CB89372@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <2F63K3GA8CB89372@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] 9fans, I saw your profile Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:37:17 +0000 Hi, I saw your info and thought you might be interested in chatting. I have a couple of nice pics that you can see and also you can message me if you want to chat. Just click here: http://www.beowolfhost.com/dms1/index.html Thanks Jamie4u From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 00:02:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 00:02:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19649 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 00:02:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19634 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 00:02:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 00:02:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2C0D619A02; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:02:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F0E3919992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:01:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <17636.1055226056@beat.cc.titech.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] lookman Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:04:57 +0100 > P.S. > I will write on my white-board `lookman ordinary_unix_command` > a considerable times. that reminds me. i've been using the following version of lookman for ages now, and often find it more useful than the one distributed. it does the usual keyword lookup but does a grep too so that you get some immediate context for the hits. e.g. % lookman serial 9p(2) fully terminate the serial conversation once the file draw(2) Turns on or off debugging output (usually to a serial html(2) serial number for the form within the document. Name is the Fbutton, Fselect or Ftextarea. Fieldid is a serial number Tableid is a serial number for the table within the docu- Cellid provides a serial number for the cell within the memdraw(2) the kernel, iprint prints to a serial line rather than the [...] it has some obvious flaws, but is nonetheless useful, i think. cheers, rog. #!/bin/rc # Usage: lookman key ... # prints out the names of all manual pages containing all the given keywords index=/sys/lib/man/lookman/index t1=/tmp/look1.$pid t2=/tmp/look2.$pid fn sigexit sigint sighup sigterm{ rm -f $t1 $t2 exit 1 } *=`{echo $*|tr A-Z a-z|tr -dc 'a-z \012'} # fold case, delete funny chars if(~ $#* 0){ echo Usage: lookman key ... >/fd/2 exit 1 } look -x $1 $index|sed 's/.* //'|sort -u >$t1 allkey=$* shift for(i in $*){ look -x $i $index|sed 's/.* //'|sort -u| awk 'BEGIN { while (getline < "'$t1'" > 0) table[$0] = 1; } { if (table[$0]) print } ' > $t2 mv $t2 $t1 } for (i in `{sort $t1}) { echo $i | sed 's:/sys/man/([0-9])/(.*):\2(\1):' for (j in $allkey) { nroff -man $i | grep -i -e $j | sed 's/^/ /' } } rm -f $t1 $t2 exit 0 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 01:04:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 01:04:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21198 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 01:04:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21194 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 01:04:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 01:04:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E883819A3E; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:04:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cvs.openbsd.org (cvs.openbsd.org [199.185.137.3]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA33A19A04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:03:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cvs.openbsd.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by cvs.openbsd.org (8.12.9/8.12.1) with ESMTP id h5HG4qiV015223 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-DSS-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:04:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by cvs.openbsd.org (8.12.9/8.12.0/Submit) id h5HG4qCU024345 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:04:52 -0600 (MDT) From: Theo de Raadt Message-Id: <200306171604.h5HG4qCU024345@cvs.openbsd.org> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] The new ridiculous license Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:04:52 -0600 (MDT) http://plan9.bell-labs.com/hidden/newlicense.html [and whichever other versions are proposed..] The new license is utterly unacceptable for use in a BSD project. Actually, I am astounded that the OSI would declare such a license acceptable. That is not a license which makes it free. It is a *contract* with consequences; let me be clear -- it is a contract with consequences that I am unwilling to accept. Note that I sell OpenBSD CDs to fund our project. That contract right there says in term 7: If Theo accidentally sells a CD to North Korea, the US can fuck him. Thanks OSI. Thanks for being so damn patriotic. It also says in term 4: Sell this in a product in ways which "we" do not like, and the contract you have accepted says you can be fucked by anyone who owns this license later and who decides they want to fuck you. Who is "we". You don't read term 4 that way? Lawyers I talk to read it that way. If lawyers I talk to read it that way, why the heck would I risk ever in the future ending up in a court room with lawyers who might argue against me like my lawyers suggest might be possible? I would be stupid to accept such a term. And come on it says "certain responsibilities". Good god. Are you people dumb to accept such a term in a legal document? It is like "your house mortgage can be considered invalid in certain situations and then we own your house". Or perhaps you guys are utterly blind to what is happening with IBM and SCO right now. The license you propose is NOT FREE SOFTWARE. I am astounded the OSI has gone and decided to become an organization that just rubber stamps things which are not free. I don't know who they are talking to, but these "licenses" which they approve are chock full of constraints against various segments of the user community. Wisen up plan9 guys -- keep your software commercial or just make it free. Say "Public domain" or say "Copyright us, do anything except don't claim someone else wrote it", -- or keep it commercial. These continual lies wrapped up in contract law are ... such a farce -- why is it that none of you have the guts to just give it away like the good people at Berkeley did years and years ago? Are you really that gutless? Did Kirk and Keith and Kirk really understand something about freedom which you guys don't? Are all of you really that trapped that you can't escape the legal frameworks presented to you by lawyers? Were those Berkeley guys on drugs when they decided to make all that stuff "free except give us credit", and like wow man, suddenly all sorts of stuff from sockets to half of libc ended up being based on their cope. Or is it the plan9 people who hold major delusions? We've made OpenSSH so free that it is being included not just in generic purpose operating systems, but also in routers, switches, and reportedly soon even in POSTSCRIPT PRINTERS... from *major vendors*... because we are FED UP with one-off crap security software being put into these devices; because MY security depends on the security of YOUR NETWORK DEVICE; hence we would rather supply a complete 'plug and play' solution that any vendor can just merge into their product BECAUSE THE LICENSE IS UTTERLY STARK AND CLEAR AND FREE. But increasingly I am becoming convinces that anyone who has ever worked for AT&T or Bell Labs does not UNDERSTAND what makes networks more secure -- and it is, surprise, FREE DISCLOSURE OF THE SIMPLE STUFF. Were we on Berkeley drugs when we decided to make OpenSSH that free? Who on this list is using OpenSSH? Who wants to use something less free instead? Put another way... do you guys have some kick ass technology that you want to change the world, or don't you? The latest rave vibe on the internet appears to be that free software is changing the world a lot. You don't want to be part of that? Besides being part of all *BSD and Linux operating systems, OpenSSH is also part of most non-Linux Unix-like operating systems, but you might have noticed that many of those systems do not ship with other GNU software by default; like pick Solaris. Solaris includes OpenSSH. Name some GNU software included by default, ok? The point is, a SSH server MATTERS. That there is a free one matters even more. There's a reason. You write a license like you have written here, and vendors get afraid. I urge you to write something much simpler. I am willing to speak this way because after two years of discussion with plan9 people, it has become clear to me that this compiler will never be free enough for us to use. If that changes as a result of this mail, good. If not, fine -- I have given up hope. I urge everyone in power regarding this issue to think this through -- and then, make your simple compiler which we can build into a trusted component FREE, or, if you don't, sometime in the next few years something else which is simple and matches it in power, can and might and probably will show up (because it is clear the gnu bloat compiler will never achieve such a goal...) After all, why would you spend so much effort building something so kick-ass if in the end very few people use it. - --- Below is an example license to be used for new code in OpenBSD, modeled after the ISC license. It is important to specify the year of the copyright. Additional years should be separated by a comma, e.g. Copyright (c) 2003, 2004 If you add extra text to the body of the license, be careful not to add further restrictions. /* * Copyright (c) CCYY YOUR NAME HERE * * Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this software for any * purpose with or without fee is hereby granted, provided that the above * copyright notice and this permission notice appear in all copies. * * THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS" AND THE AUTHOR DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES * WITH REGARD TO THIS SOFTWARE INCLUDING ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF * MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHOR BE LIABLE FOR * ANY SPECIAL, DIRECT, INDIRECT, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES OR ANY DAMAGES * WHATSOEVER RESULTING FROM LOSS OF USE, DATA OR PROFITS, WHETHER IN AN * ACTION OF CONTRACT, NEGLIGENCE OR OTHER TORTIOUS ACTION, ARISING OUT OF * OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE USE OR PERFORMANCE OF THIS SOFTWARE. */ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 01:39:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 01:39:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21953 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 01:39:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21949 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 01:39:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 01:39:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE3BC19A1C; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:39:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8CE4A19A1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:38:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4cbc04991719186c54750d1f0b6eb015@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" From: rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com To: deraadt@cvs.openbsd.org, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:38:07 -0400 > Note that I sell OpenBSD CDs to fund our project. That contract right > there says in term 7: > > If Theo accidentally sells a CD to > North Korea, the US can fuck him. You might notice that OSI didn't approve clause 7. (See http://plan9.bell-labs.com/hidden/osi-diff.html.) 7. EXPORT CONTROL Recipient agrees that Recipient alone is responsible for compliance with the United States export administration regulations (and the export control laws and regulation of any other countries) and hereby indemnifies the Contributors for any liability incurred as a result of the Recipients actions which result in any violation of any such laws and regulations. If Theo lives in the U.S. and sells a CD to North Korea, Theo has broken U.S. law regardless of whether section 7 exists. If Theo lives outside the U.S. and sells a CD to North Korea, Theo is fine regardless of whether section 7 exists. > It also says in term 4: > > Sell this in a product in ways which "we" do not like, and the > contract you have accepted says you can be fucked by anyone > who owns this license later and who decides they want to fuck you. Where does it say this? I see that if you put our software in PostScript printers claiming that it's bulletproof and then it turns out not to be, then it's your butt on the line not ours since we never said it was bulletproof. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 01:51:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 01:51:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22156 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 01:51:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22152 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 01:51:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 01:51:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 688BC19A71; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:51:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cvs.openbsd.org (cvs.openbsd.org [199.185.137.3]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E26019A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:50:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cvs.openbsd.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by cvs.openbsd.org (8.12.9/8.12.1) with ESMTP id h5HGqLiV014431 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-DSS-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:52:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by cvs.openbsd.org (8.12.9/8.12.0/Submit) id h5HGqLEw016681; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:52:21 -0600 (MDT) From: Theo de Raadt Message-Id: <200306171652.h5HGqLEw016681@cvs.openbsd.org> To: rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license Cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, deraadt@cvs.openbsd.org Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:52:21 -0600 (MDT) It's too difficult for me to explain in full details how much of this license is not acceptable to us. But it clearly is not acceptable to us. We have an entire operating system (minus a touch of GPL and LGPL here and there, one sendmail license, and a few smatterings of Artistic) that has NO CONTRACTS -- every license is simply "copyright law term dismissal + warranty disclaimer". That is free; these licenses make no new requirements of anyone; they do not require or re-state anything that is already the way it is. The BSD licenses we have simply take rights granted by copyright law to the author, and they serve to allow the author to give up all of those rights (except the copyright law right to be known as the author). These licenses ask for nothing in return; they do not even restate anything that another law might make a problem -- because there is no need to state it! We can't accept this license as it is. I note your meeting notes said that a goal had been to allow OpenBSD to use parts from this (in particular we were interested in the c compiler). I think someone did not listen to us, or understand what a BSD-licensed operating system has as a goal -- as this is, the plan9 components are now no more free for us to use than they were weeks ago. sure; you have a new license. That will be good for some people. Too bad it does not go far enough for the needs of a BSD licensed system. It's just incompatible. It would be the most onerous license in our tree (well there is the GPL, but year by year we remove and replace more and more GPL software in our tree... we had hoped to replace the c compiler in the long term with a free one...) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 01:59:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 01:59:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22234 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 01:59:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22230 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 01:59:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 01:59:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8115419A6C; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:59:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D3FF719A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:58:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license From: C H Forsyth In-Reply-To: <200306171604.h5HG4qCU024345@cvs.openbsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:02:02 +0100 /* * Copyright (c) CCYY YOUR NAME HERE * * Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this software for any * purpose with or without fee is hereby granted, provided that the above * copyright notice and this permission notice appear in all copies. * * THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS" AND THE AUTHOR DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES * WITH REGARD TO THIS SOFTWARE INCLUDING ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF * MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHOR BE LIABLE FOR * ANY SPECIAL, DIRECT, INDIRECT, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES OR ANY DAMAGES * WHATSOEVER RESULTING FROM LOSS OF USE, DATA OR PROFITS, WHETHER IN AN * ACTION OF CONTRACT, NEGLIGENCE OR OTHER TORTIOUS ACTION, ARISING OUT OF * OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE USE OR PERFORMANCE OF THIS SOFTWARE. */ if you say ``permission ... is granted, provided that [you do/behave thus and so]...' is that not a form of contract? (even if there isn't a Party of the First Part and a Party of the Second Part and a Sanity Clause.) whether a contract is VALID expressed in a given way or with/without particular terms is another large matter. if my dom.ain is in a country within certain legal jurisdictions, can i actually DISCLAIM all that. for instance in England we cannot avoid liability for negligence or `wilful default', and nearly always must make that clear. ------- it seems to me that the aim of clause 4 in the Lucent Hidden License is to ensure that: given that the Contributors have made their contribution with as little warranty and guarantees as they can possibly get away with, if someone subsequently decides to distribute it and ALSO offer extra warranties or guarantees or other forms of support, and someone takes them up on it but they end up feeling worse for it, the responsibility rests with the supplier who made the later offer. thus the original Contributors are safe from being held responsible for what someone else does with it (even if the original code was at fault) IF that person makes extra claims, offers, guarantees, etc. the rationale is that if you claim something the original contributor didn't claim it's your responsibility to check the claim and make good. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 02:12:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 02:12:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22406 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 02:12:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22402 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 02:12:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 02:12:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 47AC419A64; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:12:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 09E9919A2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:11:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17693; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:10:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5HHAw501365; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:10:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306171710.h5HHAw501365@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: deraadt@cvs.openbsd.org Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:52:21 MDT." <200306171652.h5HGqLEw016681@cvs.openbsd.org> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:10:57 -0400 > We can't accept this license as it is. I note your meeting notes said > that a goal had been to allow OpenBSD to use parts from this (in > particular we were interested in the c compiler). I think someone did > not listen to us, or understand what a BSD-licensed operating system > has as a goal -- as this is, the plan9 components are now no more free > for us to use than they were weeks ago. I don't think it has ever been a goal of anyone working on Plan 9 to allow or disallow you or anyone else from using the Plan 9 code. If you don't want to use it because you don't like the license, fine. Otherwise, what's your point by sending this garbage to 9fans? If you've got a problem with Bell Labs, take it up with them. Don't spam the rest of us with your misunderstandings of the community's goals. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 02:14:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 02:14:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22435 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 02:14:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22431 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 02:14:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 02:14:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B493219A80; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:14:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 83A85199A3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:13:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <771b45b26086edb72d026679f89cfbb6@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: deraadt@cvs.openbsd.org, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:09:40 -0400 Thank you for the comments. I'll answer them as best I can though I fear any answer will be insufficient since I really can't change the license substantially. > That is not a license which makes it free. It is a *contract* with > consequences; let me be clear -- it is a contract with consequences > that I am unwilling to accept. That's clearly for you to decide. Though legally this is not a contract, It does obligate the recipient which is probably what you mean. > Note that I sell OpenBSD CDs to fund our project. That contract right > there says in term 7: > > If Theo accidentally sells a CD to > North Korea, the US can fuck him. Nice paraphrase and it is indeed true. However, not because of what the license says: Recipient agrees that Recipient alone is responsible for compliance with the United States export administration regulations (and the export control laws and regulation of any other countries) and hereby indemnifies the Contributors for any liability incurred as a result of the Recipients actions which result in any violation of any such laws and regulations. If Theo accidentally (or not) sells a CD to North Korea, then the US can 'fuck' him, so to speak, with or without this clause (assuming he's living in the US or in a country the US can lean on). The best he can claim as mitigation is that he didn't know that there might be applicable export controls or that he did it by accident. What the clause does do is point out that he was told, that its his accident and the weight falls on him, not the contributors. If he does something to bring the gov down on him, its on him and not the whole community. That of course will not make Theo feel very good. As far as I know, the only thing that really is covered by the US regulations is the crypto but that's beside the point. If you know better than I do (as well you might, I haven't checked lately) i.e., if you think that the export regulations no longer apply to such software please tell me. Of couse then this clause shouldn't bother you because there are no reguations whose infringement you need to indemnify contributors against. By the way, this clause has NOT been accepted by OpenSource as the pointer at the top of the license points out. The license they accepted does not contain it. >It also says in term 4: > > Sell this in a product in ways which "we" do not like, and the > contract you have accepted says you can be fucked by anyone > who owns this license later and who decides they want to fuck you. If the lawyers you talk to read it as you described it, then I'ld like to talk with them. Please have them contact me. We've gone over this with both our lawyer and with the IBM laywer that drafted the CPL and this reading astounds us all. This clause comes pretty much intact from the IBM PL. It means that should you commercially distribute (sell) this product, and as a result of that someone sues because of 'your acts and ommissions', that you will protect the contributors in that suit. Of course, this may also not be acceptable to you, but that's a different story. As for the rest, I agree. My original wording for the license was: take the software and do whatever you'ld like with it Since we're a big company with seemingly big pockets (though mostly empty these days) and we do get sued a lot as a result. Whether or not we're in the right its still damed expensive. Therefore, we can't release software without the cover your ass clauses. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 02:17:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 02:17:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22470 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 02:17:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22466 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 02:17:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 02:17:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF11319AA2; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:17:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 390C019A6D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:16:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license In-Reply-To: <4cbc04991719186c54750d1f0b6eb015@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:13:23 -0400 I just read your answer to deraadt and notice that its just like mine. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 02:27:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 02:27:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22562 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 02:27:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22558 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 02:27:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 02:27:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9982E19A78; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:27:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BED6F19A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:26:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5HHKeeH030099 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:20:40 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5HHKeuF030095 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:20:40 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] what about releasing under a different license? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:20:40 -0600 (MDT) This is the part I need clarifying: isn't it possible for Theo to just take the code and release it under the BSD license? I overheard people talking about crafting their own plan9 distributions under the GPL to ensure that the code survives in open form... Would the license allow that? Curious. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 02:33:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 02:33:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22685 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 02:33:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22681 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 02:33:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 02:33:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BD5C219A87; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:33:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cvs.openbsd.org (cvs.openbsd.org [199.185.137.3]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CCFF419A82 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:32:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cvs.openbsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cvs.openbsd.org (8.12.9/8.12.1) with ESMTP id h5HHXgiV008038; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:33:42 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200306171733.h5HHXgiV008038@cvs.openbsd.org> To: David Presotto Cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:09:40 EDT." From: Theo de Raadt Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:33:42 -0600 > Since we're a big company with seemingly big pockets (though mostly empty > these days) and we do get sued a lot as a result. Whether or not we're > in the right its still damed expensive. Therefore, we can't release > software without the cover your ass clauses. Then why don't you guys just use a standard warranty disclaimer then? * THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS" AND THE AUTHOR DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES * WITH REGARD TO THIS SOFTWARE INCLUDING ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF * MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHOR BE LIABLE FOR * ANY SPECIAL, DIRECT, INDIRECT, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES OR ANY DAMAGES * WHATSOEVER RESULTING FROM LOSS OF USE, DATA OR PROFITS, WHETHER IN AN * ACTION OF CONTRACT, NEGLIGENCE OR OTHER TORTIOUS ACTION, ARISING OUT OF * OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE USE OR PERFORMANCE OF THIS SOFTWARE. Disclaimers of the above form occur on thousands and thousands of files from some very large organizations... like CMU or MIT or UCB, on very large software packages which many of you might have used in whole or in part, like MACH, X11, or BSD. Disclaimers like this have worked fine for an entire industry. Why are Lucent and IBM so special, that instead of having a simple warranty disclaimer, their licenses instead need to make threats and assertions of possible reprocussions to distributers? (Sorry, that is how I view these licenses, and I am not likely to change my viewpoint, since much of this comes from a distrust of corporations). By the way, since you mention IBM, postfix is in the same situation -- we can't distribute it on our CDs. If I were to put it on a CD, and various possible events occur which are out of my control, the license has put me on notice that I could be sued. I don't accept such a thing. I consider it a threat to our project's continued existance as a developer and provider of free software (not just OpenBSD, but OpenSSH too). I am sorry for the strong minded way in which I am approaching this, but I am very dissapointed that after years of requesting that the plan9 c compiler become free so that we can start extending it and working with it... that we could be rebuffed in such a way because the lawyers have not been properly reined in. I know you wanted this to be really free. Yet, thus far this is a failure. http://www.vitanuova.com/company/products.html claims a desire to address complexity. Why not in licenses too? I quote a sample license again, of a form that has been used by many many organizations for decades to make their software free. So free, that such things are all over HP routers and switches and cisco pix firewalls, and who knows where else. --- Below is an example license to be used for new code in OpenBSD, modeled after the ISC license. It is important to specify the year of the copyright. Additional years should be separated by a comma, e.g. Copyright (c) 2003, 2004 If you add extra text to the body of the license, be careful not to add further restrictions. /* * Copyright (c) CCYY YOUR NAME HERE * * Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this software for any * purpose with or without fee is hereby granted, provided that the above * copyright notice and this permission notice appear in all copies. * * THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS" AND THE AUTHOR DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES * WITH REGARD TO THIS SOFTWARE INCLUDING ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF * MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHOR BE LIABLE FOR * ANY SPECIAL, DIRECT, INDIRECT, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES OR ANY DAMAGES * WHATSOEVER RESULTING FROM LOSS OF USE, DATA OR PROFITS, WHETHER IN AN * ACTION OF CONTRACT, NEGLIGENCE OR OTHER TORTIOUS ACTION, ARISING OUT OF * OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE USE OR PERFORMANCE OF THIS SOFTWARE. */ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 02:40:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 02:40:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23169 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 02:40:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23165 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 02:40:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 02:40:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 252BC19A88; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:40:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.srv.cquest.utoronto.ca (mail.srv.cquest.utoronto.ca [192.82.128.11]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 5036519A6D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:39:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.srv.cquest.utoronto.ca id <97183>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:38:58 -0500 Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license From: Tom Glinos To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: <200306171604.h5HG4qCU024345@cvs.openbsd.org> from "Theo de Raadt" at Jun 17, 2003 12:04:52 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <03Jun17.133858edt.97183@mail.srv.cquest.utoronto.ca> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:38:54 -0500 Theo has his points: Let's deal with the Export Restrictions. Lucent and by induction the licensee MUST keep the US Government happy. In reality, it's not that onerous a clause. Always remember the US Government at any time can make up new laws to screw you (and history show it has done this frequently). Look at the RIAA inspired mess. So, don't worry, be happy. The COMMERCIAL DISTIBUTION clause is just nutty. I wouldn't bet my business on that clause. Should anything blow up, (either intentionally or not) you are screwed. Theo is correct here. But, there is hope, Lucent reserves the right to change the license. Perhaps a future license won't be so risky. But, if you are just doing things for "free" then I don't see a problem with this license. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 02:47:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 02:47:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23314 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 02:47:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23310 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 02:47:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 02:47:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8122319A82; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:47:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2E97B19A26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:46:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0676bba8e05b5bea475fd69e13498c3a@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" From: rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license In-Reply-To: <03Jun17.133858edt.97183@mail.srv.cquest.utoronto.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:46:27 -0400 > The COMMERCIAL DISTIBUTION clause is just nutty. > I wouldn't bet my business on that clause. > Should anything blow up, (either intentionally or not) > you are screwed. Theo is correct here. Can you explain this? None of us can see that. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 02:48:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 02:48:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23322 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 02:48:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23318 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 02:48:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 02:48:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 22BBD19A86; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:48:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from pandora.afflictions.org (asylum.afflictions.org [64.7.134.90]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B9FEB19A6A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:47:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by pandora.afflictions.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 32A8D5AC67; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:50:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Damian Gerow To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license Message-ID: <20030617175011.GD3197@afflictions.org> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <4cbc04991719186c54750d1f0b6eb015@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4cbc04991719186c54750d1f0b6eb015@plan9.bell-labs.com> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.8-RC on a i386 X-GPG-Fingerprint: B3D7 D901 A53A 1A99 BFD6 E6DF 9F3B 742B C288 9CC9 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:50:12 -0400 Thus spake Russ Cox (rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) [17/06/03 12:42]: > You might notice that OSI didn't approve clause 7. > (See http://plan9.bell-labs.com/hidden/osi-diff.html.) So is there a final revision of the license that we can read, without having to include external amendments that are 'hidden'? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 02:55:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 02:55:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23361 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 02:55:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23357 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 02:55:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 02:55:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BC05219A6A; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:55:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1187D19A6D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:54:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net ([10.9.0.3]) by collyer.net; Tue Jun 17 10:54:39 PDT 2003 Received: from xerxes.courtesan.com ([206.168.103.86]) by collyer.net; Tue Jun 17 10:54:38 PDT 2003 Received: from xerxes.courtesan.com (IDENT:millert@localhost.courtesan.com [127.0.0.1]) by xerxes.courtesan.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h5HHsaZR028481 for <9fans@collyer.net>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:54:36 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200306171754.h5HHsaZR028481@xerxes.courtesan.com> To: 9fans@collyer.net Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Usenix BOF, 12 June 2003 From: "Todd C. Miller" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:54:35 -0600 > The licence has been changed and I don't really understand the > implications, except that the Open Source Institute blessed the > penultimate version and declared it officially ``open source''. See > plan9.bell-labs.com/hidden/nntemplate.html. It might be worth > pointing the OpenBSD folks at this licence if they are serious about > using the Plan 9 C compilers. Unfortunately, OpenBSD can't really use the compiler unless it has a license similar to that used by MIT, UC Berkeley, or the ISC. Our goals are quite different from the OSI; we favor licenses that are both clear and concise (the text of our preferred license is just 10 lines on an 80-column terminal) and, most importantly, that don't require a lawyer to interpret. Anything that creates a tortious liability for us is simply not acceptable as we have no financial means of defending ourselves. As it stands, the new Lucent license is not something we can use. This is unfortunate as continued development and expansion of the plan9 toolchain is in the best interests of both the plan9 community and the open source community at large. It would mean development of additional CPU targets that could be used to bootstrap ports of plan9 to currently unsupported platforms. - todd From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 02:58:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 02:58:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23384 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 02:58:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23380 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 02:58:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 02:58:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 92EF719A2A; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:58:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BA57D19A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:57:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: "Russ Cox" From: rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license In-Reply-To: <20030617175011.GD3197@afflictions.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:57:00 -0400 The version that OSI approved is at http://plan9.bell-labs.com/hidden/approved-template.html but it's not what we're using. We're using the one that I posted a link to before: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/hidden/newlicense.html. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 03:03:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 03:03:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23433 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 03:03:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23429 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 03:03:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 03:03:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D01A319A2C; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:03:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 621EB199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:01:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <69198e9000e17fd338b62e557fe636fb@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: dgerow@afflictions.org, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-nuuqqmhgeactqevbhbmpywxyel" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:01:25 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-nuuqqmhgeactqevbhbmpywxyel Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The amendments aren't hidden. The license you looked at http://plan9.bell-labs.com/hidden/newlicense.html is the final one. The thing you didn't notice was the line at the top that said that this was different than what OSI had approved and a pointer to the differences. --upas-nuuqqmhgeactqevbhbmpywxyel Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Jun 17 13:48:56 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Tue Jun 17 13:48:18 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A9DB19A7F; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:48:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from pandora.afflictions.org (asylum.afflictions.org [64.7.134.90]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B9FEB19A6A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:47:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by pandora.afflictions.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 32A8D5AC67; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:50:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Damian Gerow To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license Message-ID: <20030617175011.GD3197@afflictions.org> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <4cbc04991719186c54750d1f0b6eb015@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4cbc04991719186c54750d1f0b6eb015@plan9.bell-labs.com> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.8-RC on a i386 X-GPG-Fingerprint: B3D7 D901 A53A 1A99 BFD6 E6DF 9F3B 742B C288 9CC9 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:50:12 -0400 Thus spake Russ Cox (rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) [17/06/03 12:42]: > You might notice that OSI didn't approve clause 7. > (See http://plan9.bell-labs.com/hidden/osi-diff.html.) So is there a final revision of the license that we can read, without having to include external amendments that are 'hidden'? --upas-nuuqqmhgeactqevbhbmpywxyel-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 03:05:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 03:05:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23452 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 03:05:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23448 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 03:05:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 03:05:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1D20819A9C; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:05:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from pandora.afflictions.org (asylum.afflictions.org [64.7.134.90]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A29C19A40 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:04:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by pandora.afflictions.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 6F38E5ACA0; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:07:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Damian Gerow To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license Message-ID: <20030617180709.GF3197@afflictions.org> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030617175011.GD3197@afflictions.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.8-RC on a i386 X-GPG-Fingerprint: B3D7 D901 A53A 1A99 BFD6 E6DF 9F3B 742B C288 9CC9 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:07:09 -0400 Thus spake Russ Cox (rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) [17/06/03 14:01]: > The version that OSI approved is at > http://plan9.bell-labs.com/hidden/approved-template.html > but it's not what we're using. We're using the one > that I posted a link to before: > http://plan9.bell-labs.com/hidden/newlicense.html. Any reason the OSI-approved license was dropped? Why move to a new license after one was approved? IMO, the entire license can be reduced to just Clause 5. I'm no legalese expert, but it feels like everything else is just a specific instance of Clause 5. Everything in the license basically states over and over again that the Contributor(s) are not responsible for the Receiver(s) performing action X. If Clause 5 already says that, just not in so many words, why bother going to the trouble of pointing everything out? Even Clause 5 itself is repetitive -- the portion in CAPS seems to be fairly clear to me, as to what the license is. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 03:14:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 03:14:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23546 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 03:14:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23542 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 03:14:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 03:14:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E785719A94; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:14:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 787DD199A3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:13:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sdn-ap-022castocp0318.dialsprint.net ([65.178.97.64] helo=acm.org) by albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19SKx3-0003Ks-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:13:02 -0700 Message-ID: <3EEF5A62.20706@acm.org> From: Donald Brownlee User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license References: <03Jun17.133858edt.97183@mail.srv.cquest.utoronto.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:13:54 -0700 To avoid having to indemnify contributors, couldn't a distributor offer a license which disclaims as much as possible AND requires a distributee to accept the Lucent license? To distribute and have to indemnify the contributors could be risky. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 03:19:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 03:19:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23612 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 03:19:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23608 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 03:19:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 03:19:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 69F4919A7D; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:19:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6182319A04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:18:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:15:17 +0100 there is another aspect which is: is it actually bad if it's (like) a contract? perhaps contracts are good things. they set out the rights and obligations of the contracting parties. more important: for the scope of a contract they establish a kind of parity between small individuals and enormous corporate bodies. i think that's an interesting and indeed admirable effect. i don't have to trust, i can rely on the existence of that contract. that's why `loopholes' and `fine print' are nasty. we feel hard done by, and fortunately the courts often agree. indeed the development of the enforceable contract is sometimes regarded as being significant historically. even villains rely on it (eg, `take out a contract') although they typically do not pursue their claims through the courts. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 03:19:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 03:19:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23619 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 03:19:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23615 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 03:19:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 03:19:38 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E5335199B7; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:19:17 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0B059199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:18:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <71f5ddbeb555a37560d0bbda65554265@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: dgerow@afflictions.org, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-nfjsfynlhrohxknxzkjtdcttgy" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:18:43 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-nfjsfynlhrohxknxzkjtdcttgy Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Two changes were made to make it clearer/shorter. The export disclaimer was added because lawyers don't like to leave anything dangling. All the clauses really do address different subjects. 5 and 6 lok real similar and could probably be combined somehow. --upas-nfjsfynlhrohxknxzkjtdcttgy Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Jun 17 14:05:40 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Tue Jun 17 14:05:27 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B4A7819A94; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:05:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from pandora.afflictions.org (asylum.afflictions.org [64.7.134.90]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A29C19A40 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:04:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by pandora.afflictions.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 6F38E5ACA0; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:07:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Damian Gerow To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license Message-ID: <20030617180709.GF3197@afflictions.org> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030617175011.GD3197@afflictions.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.8-RC on a i386 X-GPG-Fingerprint: B3D7 D901 A53A 1A99 BFD6 E6DF 9F3B 742B C288 9CC9 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:07:09 -0400 Thus spake Russ Cox (rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) [17/06/03 14:01]: > The version that OSI approved is at > http://plan9.bell-labs.com/hidden/approved-template.html > but it's not what we're using. We're using the one > that I posted a link to before: > http://plan9.bell-labs.com/hidden/newlicense.html. Any reason the OSI-approved license was dropped? Why move to a new license after one was approved? IMO, the entire license can be reduced to just Clause 5. I'm no legalese expert, but it feels like everything else is just a specific instance of Clause 5. Everything in the license basically states over and over again that the Contributor(s) are not responsible for the Receiver(s) performing action X. If Clause 5 already says that, just not in so many words, why bother going to the trouble of pointing everything out? Even Clause 5 itself is repetitive -- the portion in CAPS seems to be fairly clear to me, as to what the license is. --upas-nfjsfynlhrohxknxzkjtdcttgy-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 03:28:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 03:28:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23687 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 03:28:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23683 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 03:28:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 03:28:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B460519AA6; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:28:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-03.noos.net [212.198.2.72]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1B06319A04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:27:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 9761006 invoked by uid 0); 17 Jun 2003 18:27:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.227]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.72 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 17 Jun 2003 18:27:29 -0000 Message-ID: <005501c334fd$ed513bc0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200306171710.h5HHAw501365@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:26:07 +0200 From: "Dan Cross" > If you don't want to use it because you don't like the license, fine. > Otherwise, what's your point by sending this garbage to 9fans? right From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 03:47:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 03:47:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23836 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 03:47:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23832 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 03:47:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 03:47:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4FB8D199A3; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:47:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2DF0719999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:46:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5515de5e34ac8d17ec86ede4501b3963@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: brownlee@acm.org, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:45:46 -0400 On Tue Jun 17 14:15:16 EDT 2003, brownlee@acm.org wrote: > To avoid having to indemnify contributors, couldn't > a distributor offer a license which disclaims as > much as possible AND requires a distributee > to accept the Lucent license? The distributor indemnifies against the consequences of his actions. The distributor is not indemnifying the contributors against the results of their actions (unless of course he misrepresents their claims when distributing). > > To distribute and have to indemnify the contributors could be risky. If a contributor could be sued for something stupid that a distributor did, wouldln't it be risky to contribute? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 04:02:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 04:02:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24082 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 04:02:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24078 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 04:02:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 04:02:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E55EC19A26; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:02:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 08735199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:01:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5HItleH030238 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:55:47 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5HItlxn030234 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:55:47 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] esr on plan9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:55:47 -0600 (MDT) Chapter 20 of Eric Raymond's (new, it seems) book 'The Art of UNIX Programming' is devoted to Plan 9: http://catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/html/plan9.html Looks like the Plan 9 chapter was added on the 28th of May 2003. andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 04:20:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 04:20:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24311 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 04:20:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24307 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 04:20:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 04:20:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0068B19A7F; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:20:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-12.noos.net [212.198.2.83]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AFD40199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:19:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 8696110 invoked by uid 0); 17 Jun 2003 19:19:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.227]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.83 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 17 Jun 2003 19:19:23 -0000 Message-ID: <007901c33505$2aa6f800$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] esr on plan9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:17:50 +0200 > Chapter 20 of Eric Raymond's (new, it seems) book 'The Art of UNIX > Programming' is devoted to Plan 9: yeah, yeah, yeah ... when are the lunix types just gonna forget about lunix? /proc has existed since at least 1984 [8th Ed]. that's nearly TWENTY years ago ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 04:52:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 04:52:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24817 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 04:52:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24813 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 04:52:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 04:52:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2D0AF19A28; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:52:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 51BAD19999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:51:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5HIu8Bc006717 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:56:08 -0400 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] license section 4 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:56:08 -0400 (EDT) What's the background on the example for section 4? To me, it reads that if a contributor makes claim A, distributor reiterates claim A, and for some strange reason a lawsuit is filed against said contributor because of that claim, the distributor (which of possibly many?) is liable for incurring the expense of litigation and damages resulting from that claim. While I understand the notion that if there are no claims, the distributor is responsible for defending the veracity of any claims *it* makes, (as section 5 and unfitness for any particular purpose would indicate), I can't see why this is worth stating outright. Is this patent violation related? Cheers, Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 04:52:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 04:52:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24829 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 04:52:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24825 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 04:52:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 04:52:39 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D2F5119A8A; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:52:18 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from infocom.km.ua (infocom.km.ua [195.230.134.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9E3AD19A04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:51:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kp.km.ua (root@kp.km.ua [217.196.174.2]) by infocom.km.ua (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/ic) with ESMTP id h5HJpf1W037551 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:51:43 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Received: from localhost.localdomain (dialup05.kp.km.ua [217.196.174.20]) by kp.km.ua (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/kp-branch) with SMTP id h5HJpcMu056183 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:51:39 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" From: "Andrey S. Kukhar" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] References: <69198e9000e17fd338b62e557fe636fb@plan9.bell-labs.com> In-Reply-To: <69198e9000e17fd338b62e557fe636fb@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <03061722465900.00519@localhost.localdomain> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:55:11 -0400 Theo de Raadt: rms 2, the story is repeating :) kyxap > Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 20:42:45 -0600 (MDT) > From: Richard Stallman > To: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com > Subject: Plan Nine deep-sixed by non-free license > Reply-to: rms@gnu.org > > I was excited to hear that Plan Nine might become free > software, but it turns out that the license is too > restrictive to qualify. We will have to urge people > not to use the Plan Nine software under its > present license. > > If at some point you are willing to consider rerelease > under a free software license, please contact me. > For more information, see > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html and > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/license-list.html. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 04:54:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 04:54:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24881 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 04:54:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24877 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 04:54:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 04:54:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 798B419A95; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:54:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.179]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 6152219A04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:53:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.74.10.80 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2003 19:53:17 -0000 Message-ID: <3EEF7C9F.5000607@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license References: <200306171604.h5HG4qCU024345@cvs.openbsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:39:59 -0500 > > >We've made OpenSSH so free that it is being included not just in >generic purpose operating systems, but also in routers, switches, and >reportedly soon even in POSTSCRIPT PRINTERS... from *major vendors*... >because we are FED UP with one-off crap security software being put >into these devices; because MY security depends on the security of >YOUR NETWORK DEVICE; hence we would rather supply a complete 'plug and >play' solution that any vendor can just merge into their product >BECAUSE THE LICENSE IS UTTERLY STARK AND CLEAR AND FREE. But >increasingly I am becoming convinces that anyone who has ever worked >for AT&T or Bell Labs does not UNDERSTAND what makes networks more >secure -- and it is, surprise, FREE DISCLOSURE OF THE SIMPLE STUFF. > >Were we on Berkeley drugs when we decided to make OpenSSH that free? > You *must* be on "Berkeley drugs" if you think that above paragraph is in any way valid. Or maybe you're waiting to get backdoored again to decide you really need to "rethink" the definition of "secure". Or maybe you're just going to tell everyone that it was somehow related to your politics (and not your technique at all). Hm.. just like DARPA... When *YOU* make secure products that aren't easily evaded with five or six extra bytes of machine code and *YOU* come up with theory that doesn't just obfuscate attack design then *YOU* can actually get cocky. Wobble wobble GOBBLES gotcha dox. And on the flip side, Berkeley loves its AC1DB1TCH3Z. Maybe you should, too. Don http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 05:01:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 05:01:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24973 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 05:01:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24969 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 05:01:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 05:01:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B58CA19A76; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:01:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2F09C19A76 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:00:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] license section 4 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-xmqrutynrfhzxmycwdwdihmest" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:59:41 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-xmqrutynrfhzxmycwdwdihmest Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You read incorrectly. If the contributor made the claim then the action isn't ``caused by the acts or omissions of such Commercial Distributor''. It is a definite problem with English sentences that sometimes all the words and clauses are indeed important. This is often especially true of legal statements. --upas-xmqrutynrfhzxmycwdwdihmest Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Jun 17 15:55:01 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Tue Jun 17 15:52:58 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DF4B019A0B; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:52:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 51BAD19999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:51:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5HIu8Bc006717 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:56:08 -0400 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] license section 4 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:56:08 -0400 (EDT) What's the background on the example for section 4? To me, it reads that if a contributor makes claim A, distributor reiterates claim A, and for some strange reason a lawsuit is filed against said contributor because of that claim, the distributor (which of possibly many?) is liable for incurring the expense of litigation and damages resulting from that claim. While I understand the notion that if there are no claims, the distributor is responsible for defending the veracity of any claims *it* makes, (as section 5 and unfitness for any particular purpose would indicate), I can't see why this is worth stating outright. Is this patent violation related? Cheers, Sam --upas-xmqrutynrfhzxmycwdwdihmest-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 05:12:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 05:12:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25106 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 05:12:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25102 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 05:12:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 05:12:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E5BC719A6D; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:12:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 807F8199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:11:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net ([10.9.0.3]) by collyer.net; Tue Jun 17 13:11:43 PDT 2003 Received: from cvs.openbsd.org ([199.185.137.3]) by collyer.net; Tue Jun 17 03:26:42 PDT 2003 Received: from cvs.openbsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cvs.openbsd.org (8.12.9/8.12.1) with ESMTP id h5HASUiV005580 for <9fans@collyer.net>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 04:28:31 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200306171028.h5HASUiV005580@cvs.openbsd.org> To: 9fans@collyer.net From: Theo de Raadt Subject: [9fans] The new ridiculous license Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 04:28:30 -0600 http://plan9.bell-labs.com/hidden/newlicense.html [and whichever other versions are proposed..] The new license is utterly unacceptable for use in a BSD project. Actually, I am astounded that the OSI would declare such a license acceptable. That is not a license which makes it free. It is a *contract* with consequences; let me be clear -- it is a contract with consequences that I am unwilling to accept. Note that I sell OpenBSD CDs to fund our project. That contract right there says in term 7: If Theo accidentally sells a CD to North Korea, the US can fuck him. Thanks OSI. Thanks for being so damn patriotic. It also says in term 4: Sell this in a product in ways which "we" do not like, and the contract you have accepted says you can be fucked by anyone who owns this license later and who decides they want to fuck you. Who is "we". You don't read term 4 that way? Lawyers I talk to read it that way. If lawyers I talk to read it that way, why the heck would I risk ever in the future ending up in a court room with lawyers who might argue against me like my lawyers suggest might be possible? I would be stupid to accept such a term. And come on it says "certain responsibilities". Good god. Are you people dumb to accept such a term in a legal document? It is like "your house mortgage can be considered invalid in certain situations and then we own your house". Or perhaps you guys are utterly blind to what is happening with IBM and SCO right now. The license you propose is NOT FREE SOFTWARE. I am astounded the OSI has gone and decided to become an organization that just rubber stamps things which are not free. I don't know who they are talking to, but these "licenses" which they approve are chock full of constraints against various segments of the user community. Wisen up plan9 guys -- keep your software commercial or just make it free. Say "Public domain" or say "Copyright us, do anything except don't claim someone else wrote it", -- or keep it commercial. These continual lies wrapped up in contract law are ... such a farce -- why is it that none of you have the guts to just give it away like the good people at Berkeley did years and years ago? Are you really that gutless? Did Kirk and Keith and Kirk really understand something about freedom which you guys don't? Are all of you really that trapped that you can't escape the legal frameworks presented to you by lawyers? Were those Berkeley guys on drugs when they decided to make all that stuff "free except give us credit", and like wow man, suddenly all sorts of stuff from sockets to half of libc ended up being based on their cope. Or is it the plan9 people who hold major delusions? We've made OpenSSH so free that it is being included not just in generic purpose operating systems, but also in routers, switches, and reportedly soon even in POSTSCRIPT PRINTERS... from *major vendors*... because we are FED UP with one-off crap security software being put into these devices; because MY security depends on the security of YOUR NETWORK DEVICE; hence we would rather supply a complete 'plug and play' solution that any vendor can just merge into their product BECAUSE THE LICENSE IS UTTERLY STARK AND CLEAR AND FREE. But increasingly I am becoming convinces that anyone who has ever worked for AT&T or Bell Labs does not UNDERSTAND what makes networks more secure -- and it is, surprise, FREE DISCLOSURE OF THE SIMPLE STUFF. Were we on Berkeley drugs when we decided to make OpenSSH that free? Who on this list is using OpenSSH? Who wants to use something less free instead? Put another way... do you guys have some kick ass technology that you want to change the world, or don't you? The latest rave vibe on the internet appears to be that free software is changing the world a lot. You don't want to be part of that? Besides being part of all *BSD and Linux operating systems, OpenSSH is also part of most non-Linux Unix-like operating systems, but you might have noticed that many of those systems do not ship with other GNU software by default; like pick Solaris. Solaris includes OpenSSH. Name some GNU software included by default, ok? The point is, a SSH server MATTERS. That there is a free one matters even more. There's a reason. You write a license like you have written here, and vendors get afraid. I urge you to write something much simpler. I am willing to speak this way because after two years of discussion with plan9 people, it has become clear to me that this compiler will never be free enough for us to use. If that changes as a result of this mail, good. If not, fine -- I have given up hope. I urge everyone in power regarding this issue to think this through -- and then, make your simple compiler which we can build into a trusted component FREE, or, if you don't, sometime in the next few years something else which is simple and matches it in power, can and might and probably will show up (because it is clear the gnu bloat compiler will never achieve such a goal...) After all, why would you spend so much effort building something so kick-ass if in the end very few people use it. --- Below is an example license to be used for new code in OpenBSD, modeled after the ISC license. It is important to specify the year of the copyright. Additional years should be separated by a comma, e.g. Copyright (c) 2003, 2004 If you add extra text to the body of the license, be careful not to add further restrictions. /* * Copyright (c) CCYY YOUR NAME HERE * * Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this software for any * purpose with or without fee is hereby granted, provided that the above * copyright notice and this permission notice appear in all copies. * * THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS" AND THE AUTHOR DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES * WITH REGARD TO THIS SOFTWARE INCLUDING ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF * MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHOR BE LIABLE FOR * ANY SPECIAL, DIRECT, INDIRECT, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES OR ANY DAMAGES * WHATSOEVER RESULTING FROM LOSS OF USE, DATA OR PROFITS, WHETHER IN AN * ACTION OF CONTRACT, NEGLIGENCE OR OTHER TORTIOUS ACTION, ARISING OUT OF * OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE USE OR PERFORMANCE OF THIS SOFTWARE. */ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 05:28:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 05:28:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25268 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 05:28:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25264 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 05:28:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 05:28:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C572719A9E; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:28:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 95D2F199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:27:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15284 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:27:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5HKRS502306 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:27:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306172027.h5HKRS502306@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] esr on plan9 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:55:47 MDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:27:28 -0400 Hmm. Eric Raymond is as much of an authority as Theo de Raddt is. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 05:28:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 05:28:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25275 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 05:28:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25271 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 05:28:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 05:28:46 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 331AE19AA7; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:28:20 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.srv.cquest.utoronto.ca (mail.srv.cquest.utoronto.ca [192.82.128.11]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E193A19A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:27:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.srv.cquest.utoronto.ca id <97183>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:27:55 -0500 Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license From: Tom Glinos To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: <0676bba8e05b5bea475fd69e13498c3a@plan9.bell-labs.com> from "rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com" at Jun 17, 2003 01:46:27 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <03Jun17.162755edt.97183@mail.srv.cquest.utoronto.ca> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:27:54 -0500 >Can you explain this? None of us can see that. I could go on and on why I don't like that clause. Let's take a look at the first sentence. It includes the word "may". (That word pops up later on as well as well as "would" and "might") You NEVER use the word "may" when writing a contract. Such weasel words get you into trouble every time. Let's take a look at the intent of that clause. As I see it the idea to layout idemnity relationships between Lucent, the "Distributor", the "Contributor", and the "End User". Idemnity is a good thing. But this clause gets it wrong. The language isn't crystal clear. It then goes on to dictate how parties should act in a legal action. What if the end user/contributor/Lucent is a prick? Why would I want to tie my hands and close my options in a legal fight? Why won't Lucent share in my risk if I change the way I do business? Why won't you idemnify me? In fact in a fight I'd probably drag Lucent in and sue them. I have a better idea. If you wanted to say "nobody and sue anybody because of use of this stuff" then say it. As others have pointed out it conflicts with the "NO WARRANTY" and "DISCLAIMER OF LIABILITY". If you REALLY mean those clauses, then you don't need the idemnity clause. The license would be cleaner and stronger if you were to remove that clause. Just my opinion. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 05:34:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 05:34:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25353 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 05:34:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25349 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 05:34:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 05:34:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5156419A04; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:34:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.184]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9DCA7199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:33:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.74.10.80 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2003 20:33:11 -0000 Message-ID: <3EEF85FA.2070903@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license References: <200306171604.h5HG4qCU024345@cvs.openbsd.org> <3EEF7C9F.5000607@ameritech.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:19:54 -0500 > When *YOU* make secure products that aren't easily evaded with five > or six extra bytes of machine code and *YOU* come up with theory that > doesn't just obfuscate attack design then *YOU* can actually get cocky. > Wobble wobble GOBBLES gotcha dox. And on the flip side, Berkeley > loves its AC1DB1TCH3Z. Maybe you should, too. Err, sorry for the OT-RANT. I get very bitchy between the time I've just woken up and the time I have my first cranberry juice of the day. However, the facts behind OpenBSD security still stand, and thus, do my opinions. UNIX security was one of the reasons I went out on my own and got involved in OS research (thanks tunes.org). Thankfully, Plan 9 was there. Enough said. Don http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 05:49:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 05:49:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25506 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 05:49:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25502 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 05:49:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 05:49:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D26119A89; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:49:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-02.noos.net [212.198.2.71]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 437DC199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:48:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 2556969 invoked by uid 0); 17 Jun 2003 20:48:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.227]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.71 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 17 Jun 2003 20:48:47 -0000 Message-ID: <009301c33511$a54e63c0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200306172027.h5HKRS502306@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] esr on plan9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:47:19 +0200 > Hmm. Eric Raymond is as much of an authority as Theo de Raddt is. right, gotta love those oxymorons. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 05:52:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 05:52:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25543 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 05:52:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25539 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 05:52:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 05:52:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 58B5719AAD; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:52:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-04.noos.net [212.198.2.73]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B1A2A19AA8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:51:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 9716326 invoked by uid 0); 17 Jun 2003 20:51:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.227]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.73 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 17 Jun 2003 20:51:27 -0000 Message-ID: <009e01c33512$0461af20$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200306171028.h5HASUiV005580@cvs.openbsd.org> Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:49:50 +0200 > The new license is utterly unacceptable for use in a BSD project. the real problem is that BSD is utterly unacceptable. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 06:02:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 06:02:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25624 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 06:02:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25620 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 06:02:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 06:02:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B378A19A0B; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:02:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 567FF19999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:01:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8d6610c1704160db2574f117e9bc17e7@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license In-Reply-To: <009e01c33512$0461af20$e3944251@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:01:39 -0400 Nothing like a new license to wash out the free radicals. Without the people dedicated to an open source cause, we wouldn't have as liberal a license as we do. The global consciousness/sensitivity caused by the free and open movements was what softened the company enough to accept this license. We may not like to admit it, but we have rms and his followers to thank for this license. Having to take their denunciations is just the other side of the same coin. Should we ever come up with a license that pleases both them and the company, it would be a sign that their stance isn't extreme enough. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 06:27:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 06:27:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25891 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 06:27:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25887 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 06:27:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 06:27:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA49919AA8; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:27:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cleese.nas.com (cleese.nas.com [198.182.207.3]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 70F85199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:27:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.nas.com [127.0.0.1]) by cleese.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D42636456 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:26:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Jack Johnson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license In-Reply-To: <8d6610c1704160db2574f117e9bc17e7@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:26:59 -0700 (PDT) On Tue, 17 Jun 2003, David Presotto wrote: > Having to take their denunciations is just the other side of > the same coin. Should we ever come up with a license that > pleases both them and the company, it would be a sign that > their stance isn't extreme enough. Well said. -J From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 06:29:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 06:29:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25904 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 06:29:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25900 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 06:29:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 06:29:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7F9F919A96; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:29:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B6FF9199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:28:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23423 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:28:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5HLS4502667 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:28:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306172128.h5HLS4502667@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:01:39 EDT." <8d6610c1704160db2574f117e9bc17e7@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:28:04 -0400 > Having to take their denunciations is just the other side of > the same coin. Should we ever come up with a license that > pleases both them and the company, it would be a sign that > their stance isn't extreme enough. Or that hell had frozen over. Just stick a gratuitous `g' in front of the name and see what RMS does. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 06:57:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 06:57:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26310 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 06:57:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26306 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 06:57:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 06:57:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E434119AB0; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:57:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 935CB19981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:56:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sdn-ap-014castocp0193.dialsprint.net ([63.187.136.193] helo=acm.org) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19SOQs-0005lu-00; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:56:03 -0700 Message-ID: <3EEF8EA8.8060904@acm.org> From: Donald Brownlee User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com Cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license References: <42999790ecb672f64d9fe046cb284a9d@plan9.bell-labs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:56:56 -0700 presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > On Tue Jun 17 14:15:16 EDT 2003, brownlee@acm.org wrote: > >>To avoid having to indemnify contributors, couldn't >>a distributor offer a license which disclaims as >>much as possible AND requires a distributee >>to accept the Lucent license? > > > The distributor indemnifies against the consequences of his actions. > The distributor is not indemnifying the contributors against the results > of their actions (unless of course he misrepresents their claims when > distributing). > > >>To distribute and have to indemnify the contributors could be risky. > > > If a contributor could be sued for something stupid that a distributor > did, wouldln't it be risky to contribute? > Yes. A distributor might also be a contributor and have the distributee accept the Lucent license. It seems that that would push all the risk, if any, onto the end-user. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 09:47:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 09:47:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30136 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 09:47:12 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30105 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 09:46:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 09:46:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B6C8119AA3; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:46:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 40E2819A9D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:45:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Usenix BOF, 12 June 2003 From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:45:40 -0700 I apologise for the duplicated mail due to the alias 9fans@collyer.net that got into mail headers (rather than being expanded); it's now gone. I hadn't intended to start a war; this is what I wrote: ``It might be worth pointing the OpenBSD folks at this licence if they are serious about using the Plan 9 C compilers.'' That was just my thought in my personal notes and does not represent anybody else's thoughts. That quote is based on some interest expressed by the OpenBSD folks a few months back (more or less) suggesting that they might use the Plan 9 compilers if the licence were more liberal (my interpretation). It appeared that the new licence was more liberal, given that the OSI had blessed much of it. That's all. Nobody's mortgage was threatened and no one was threatened with rape. I don't read the plan-9-licence mailing list, so I'm undoubtedly out of touch with current licensing theology (no pun intended). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 09:54:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 09:54:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30492 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 09:54:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30488 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 09:54:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 09:54:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0537519AA9; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:54:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from garlic.apnic.net (garlic.apnic.net [202.12.29.224]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2F9F719981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:53:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from garlic.apnic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by garlic.apnic.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I0r8Ja001445; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:53:08 +1000 (EST) Received: (from ggm@localhost) by garlic.apnic.net (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5I0r6nY001442; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:53:06 +1000 (EST) From: George Michaelson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: geoff@collyer.net Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Usenix BOF, 12 June 2003 Message-Id: <20030618105306.72305e6c.ggm@apnic.net> In-Reply-To: References: Organization: APNIC Pty Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.0claws38 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-pc-netbsdelf1.6T) X-Fruit-Of-The-Month-Club: persimmon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:53:06 +1000 Hey, apology not necessary. The list just hasn't been the same since Boyd Roberts stopped wielding the sword. We needed a good flame-war to liven things up. I never thought the 9fans list would become so boring! -george From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 10:02:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 10:02:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30822 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 10:02:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30818 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 10:02:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 10:02:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2CFEC19A97; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:02:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8FE61199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:01:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h5I18OQ00820; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:08:25 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Re: Plan 9 Usenix BOF, 12 June 2003 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:08:24 -0500 (CDT) On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, Geoff Collyer wrote: > sight, probably 30 or so in total. Though much anticipated, no one > from Hanger 18 attended (or at least they didn't identify themselves). 'anticipated'? I don't believe that I or anyone else from the Austin group said anything about going. We've been rather busy putting up nodes and such. Thanks for the thought though. > No guns nor Harleys were in evidence. Believe me, there were lots of guns. Texas is the 7th largest armed group on the planet. The Harley's were in Austin two weeks ago, 40,000 of them if you believe some of the claims. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 10:07:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 10:07:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31076 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 10:07:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31060 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 10:07:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 10:07:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 430E419AAE; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:07:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 15A23199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:06:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Plan 9 Usenix BOF, 12 June 2003 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:06:16 -0400 God, the Harleys were climbing Mount Washington last week. They get around. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 10:10:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 10:10:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31207 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 10:10:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31192 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 10:10:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 10:10:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 752E519AB3; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:10:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D384319A19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:09:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20023 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:09:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5I19Z503531 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:09:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306180109.h5I19Z503531@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Plan 9 Usenix BOF, 12 June 2003 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:06:16 EDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:09:35 -0400 Well, there are a lot of Harleys. They're a big clan. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 14:56:55 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 14:56:55 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23297 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 14:56:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23280 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 14:56:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 14:56:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2C65019A08; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 01:56:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-08.noos.net [212.198.2.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2165119A31 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 01:55:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 19515696 invoked by uid 0); 18 Jun 2003 05:55:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.227]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.77 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 18 Jun 2003 05:55:06 -0000 Message-ID: <00fc01c3355d$ed0eb2e0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030618105306.72305e6c.ggm@apnic.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Usenix BOF, 12 June 2003 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:53:21 +0200 > The list just hasn't been the same since Boyd Roberts stopped wielding the sword. that would be a 'katana' :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 18:01:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 18:01:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11941 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 18:01:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11651 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 18:00:51 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 18:00:51 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D690719A9D; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 05:00:21 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4DD14199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 05:00:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19SYmT-0002bD-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:59:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Gorik Van Steenberge Message-ID: Organization: -= Belgacom Usenet Service =- Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] rio applications on Xfree? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:58:18 GMT Hello, I read that you could use vncv to display linux applications on rio. My question is, is it possible the other way around? eg have plan9 apps on my X display? Kind regards, gvs From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 18:01:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 18:01:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11862 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 18:01:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11557 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 18:00:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 18:00:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5862C19A31; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 05:00:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1749D19991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 04:59:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19SYmT-0002b7-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:59:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: ozan s yigit Message-ID: Organization: york university computer science Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <200306171652.h5HGqLEw016681@cvs.openbsd.org> Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:58:02 GMT Dan Cross: > Otherwise, what's your point by sending this garbage to 9fans? If > you've got a problem with Bell Labs, take it up with them. Don't spam > the rest of us with your misunderstandings of the community's goals. theo's message is on this list because people who can be instrumental in crafting a new license happen to read this list. would you rather hold the discussion on slashdot? :-] oz --- there is a fault in reality. do not adjust your minds. -- salman rushdie Followup-To: Distribution: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Keywords: Cc: -- Dennis Davis, BUCS, University of Bath, Bath, BA2 7AY, UK D.H.Davis@bath.ac.uk From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 18:13:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 18:13:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14674 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 18:13:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14631 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 18:13:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 18:13:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D8AA719AB1; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 05:13:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-09.noos.net [212.198.2.80]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AEC1C199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 05:12:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 67581297 invoked by uid 0); 18 Jun 2003 09:12:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ntmail.noos.fr) ([195.132.21.143]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.80 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with DES-CBC3-SHA encrypted SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 18 Jun 2003 09:12:42 -0000 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030618111245.03711990@pop.noos.fr> X-Sender: philippe.anel@pop.noos.fr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Philippe Anel Subject: Re: [9fans] rio applications on Xfree? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:12:56 +0200 At 08:58 18/06/03 +0000, you wrote: >Hello, > >I read that you could use vncv to display linux applications on rio. >My question is, is it possible the other way around? eg have plan9 apps >on my X display? > >Kind regards, > >gvs try http://plan9.bell-labs.com/magic/man2html/8/drawterm philippe, From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 18:33:56 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 18:33:56 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19832 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 18:33:54 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19718 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 18:33:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 18:33:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DD46119ABB; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 05:33:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from faui03.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui03.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.30.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C07819ABA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 05:32:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from folly.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by faui03.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I9Wi6O003017 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:32:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: by folly.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 31451) id B762C2D047; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:34:06 +0200 (CEST) From: Markus Friedl To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license Message-ID: <20030618093406.GA15106@folly> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:34:06 +0200 Dan Cross: > Otherwise, what's your point by sending this garbage to 9fans? If > you've got a problem with Bell Labs, take it up with them. Don't spam > the rest of us with your misunderstandings of the community's goals. The whole point of the mail is: (1) It would be very nice to have the plan9 toolchain replace gcc in the Unix world. (2) Step (1) will probably only happen if the License is much more liberal than the gcc license, e.g. an ISC or BSD style license. Nobody is forcing you to do (2), especially if you don't care about (1). So (1) might not be the "community"'s goal, but could do a favour to rest of the world outside of the "community". From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 19:13:09 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 19:13:09 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28310 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 19:12:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28193 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 19:12:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 19:12:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 65E6419AC3; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 06:12:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id CCFC619ABD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 06:11:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 8102 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 10:11:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO proweb.co.uk) (192.168.1.100) by juice.thebigchoice.com with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 10:11:27 -0000 Message-ID: <3EF03ACF.9000508@proweb.co.uk> From: matt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license References: <200306171604.h5HG4qCU024345@cvs.openbsd.org> In-Reply-To: <200306171604.h5HG4qCU024345@cvs.openbsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:11:27 +0100 Theo de Raadt wrote: >Were we on Berkeley drugs when we decided to make OpenSSH that free? > > If you've got any left could you save me some, tnx! oz wrote: > would you rather hold the discussion on slashdot? :-] Plan9 is now Officially Open Source http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/06/17/1423211 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 20:46:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 20:46:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8050 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 20:46:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8046 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 20:46:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 20:46:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 81ED419A99; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:46:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E52E19981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:45:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19SbDX-0006Aw-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:35:07 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Apurva Mehta Message-ID: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] Is the Nvidia Tnt2 supported? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:35:01 GMT The list of supported PC hardware is not clear as to whether Nvidia Tnt2 chipset is supported. It lists the TNT, and the Geforce2 MX as supported. In the NOT supported section it lists the Geforce and mentions the Tnt2 in brackets with reference to a RviaFB driver on Linux. The wording is as follows : "nVidia GeForce (In linux this works on the RivaFB driver, as is the TNT2, apparently they are not similar enough)" So is the Tnt2 supported or not? If not is there a way to get it working somehow? Thanks, - Apurva From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 21:10:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 21:10:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8941 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 21:10:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8937 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 21:10:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 21:10:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E923119A84; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:10:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EE45419A67 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:09:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4f791164cb3225c6b0b9970899f0d8fd@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Is the Nvidia Tnt2 supported? From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-zjuzamgcaagkykmkcxovtgyobg" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:06:12 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-zjuzamgcaagkykmkcxovtgyobg Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i know that at least one person has not got a TNT-2 M64 working, with the latest downloadable image, but my card hasn't arrived yet so i've not yet looked at what's wrong, can it be fixed, etc. --upas-zjuzamgcaagkykmkcxovtgyobg Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 19SbPH-1-2lb-k; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:47:15 -0000 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-3.mail.demon.net id aa0104746; 18 Jun 2003 11:46 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 81ED419A99; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:46:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E52E19981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:45:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19SbDX-0006Aw-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:35:07 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Apurva Mehta Message-ID: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] Is the Nvidia Tnt2 supported? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:35:01 GMT The list of supported PC hardware is not clear as to whether Nvidia Tnt2 chipset is supported. It lists the TNT, and the Geforce2 MX as supported. In the NOT supported section it lists the Geforce and mentions the Tnt2 in brackets with reference to a RviaFB driver on Linux. The wording is as follows : "nVidia GeForce (In linux this works on the RivaFB driver, as is the TNT2, apparently they are not similar enough)" So is the Tnt2 supported or not? If not is there a way to get it working somehow? Thanks, - Apurva --upas-zjuzamgcaagkykmkcxovtgyobg-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 21:36:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 21:36:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9624 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 21:36:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9620 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 21:36:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 21:36:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B011019981; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:36:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8D34619A40 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:35:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: gvs@unixclan.net, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] rio applications on Xfree? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-rtweifgnzcgkenwahqlbfcemar" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:35:08 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-rtweifgnzcgkenwahqlbfcemar Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yes --upas-rtweifgnzcgkenwahqlbfcemar Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Jun 18 05:03:08 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Wed Jun 18 05:02:45 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 816C619A75; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 05:00:20 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4DD14199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 05:00:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19SYmT-0002bD-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:59:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Gorik Van Steenberge Message-ID: Organization: -= Belgacom Usenet Service =- Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] rio applications on Xfree? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:58:18 GMT Hello, I read that you could use vncv to display linux applications on rio. My question is, is it possible the other way around? eg have plan9 apps on my X display? Kind regards, gvs --upas-rtweifgnzcgkenwahqlbfcemar-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 22:15:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 22:15:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10544 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 22:15:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10540 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 22:15:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 22:15:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EC3FC19A67; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:15:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 68AC319A19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:14:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19ScYy-00008s-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:01:20 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Phaedrus Message-ID: <67d1330d.0306180454.2763d057@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] Virtual PC problems Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:01:14 GMT Hello, This is first time I'm installing plan 9. I'm using flatpanel iMac 1Ghz with resolution 1440x900 with millions of color setting. I downloaded the iso image and using it for installation. during installation I'm not able to install VGA driver as it the default 640x480x8 and xga does not work. So I had to install with inst/textonly. Did anybody have similar problems.Did I do something wrong with VPC monitor settings. I'm allocating 64MB ram with 4MB VRAM. Since I'm new to this OS i.e plan9 please help me out. With Regards From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 22:45:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 22:45:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11227 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 22:45:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11223 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 22:45:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 22:45:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B43C719AB5; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:45:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C443E199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:44:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19Sd9R-0000v9-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:39:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Apurva Mehta Message-ID: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: , <4f791164cb3225c6b0b9970899f0d8fd@caldo.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] Is the Nvidia Tnt2 supported? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:37:19 GMT On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:10:34 +0000, Charles Forsyth wrote: > i know that at least one person has not got a TNT-2 M64 working, > with the latest downloadable image, > but my card hasn't arrived yet so i've not yet looked at what's wrong, > can it be fixed, etc. Thanks for the input, I have got my TNT2 Pro working at 1024x768x24 with no problems. The refresh rate is a bit low at 55Hz (I think). I have run Plan 9 just once, from a bootable cd rom. I have not installed it yet.. - Apurva From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 23:46:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 23:46:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12797 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 23:46:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12792 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 23:46:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 23:46:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC39A19A27; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:46:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A2851199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:45:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04483; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:45:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5IEjU506393; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:45:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306181445.h5IEjU506393@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: markus@openbsd.org Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:34:06 +0200." <20030618093406.GA15106@folly> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:45:30 -0400 > > Otherwise, what's your point by sending this garbage to 9fans? If > > you've got a problem with Bell Labs, take it up with them. Don't spam > > the rest of us with your misunderstandings of the community's goals. > > The whole point of the mail is: > > (1) It would be very nice to have the plan9 toolchain replace gcc > in the Unix world. > > (2) Step (1) will probably only happen if the License is much > more liberal than the gcc license, e.g. an ISC or BSD style license. > > Nobody is forcing you to do (2), especially if you don't care about (1). At the end of the day, the only people who *really* can change the license are the people at Lucent's legal department. Perhaps they can get pushed and proded in the appropriate direction by folks in 1127, but ultimately it's the lawyers who decide. It would be far more profitable to take it up with them, perhaps first approaching someone like Dave Presotto with a rationally communicated set of issues and suggested solutions. Sending rants filled with insults to a group of people who mostly don't care at this level of specificity, and who can't do anything about it anyway, is just a waste of everyone's time. > So (1) might not be the "community"'s goal, but could do a favour to > rest of the world outside of the "community". If the BSD Unix crowd put as much effort into writing their own compilers as they put into the sort of posturing we saw yesterday, they'd have had their own compilers years ago. Why is it strictly necessary to use the Plan 9 compilers? Why not just write your own? It shouldn't take more than a couple months of work, really. Besides, there *are* BSD licensed compilers out there already. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 23:53:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 23:53:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13032 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 23:53:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13028 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 23:53:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 23:53:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 857A2199BB; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:53:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E917F19A19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:52:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05454 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:52:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5IEqf506454 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:52:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306181452.h5IEqf506454@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:58:02 GMT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:52:41 -0400 > theo's message is on this list because people who can be instrumental > in crafting a new license happen to read this list. Then I propose the creation of another list for license issues. Perhaps, ``plan9-license-flames'' would be a good name. > would you rather hold the discussion on slashdot? :-] Well, yes, since I don't read slashdot, and therefore wouldn't be distracted by it. :-) I'd just rather not be a party to the discussion at all. The current license is sufficiently liberal for my tastes, the OSI-approved license seems fine for most other people, and it's a subject that's been beaten to death, time and again. Theo just seems upset because he believes he can't use the compilers in his ersatz version of BSD Unix. Frankly, I don't care. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 18 23:55:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 18 23:55:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13054 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Jun 2003 23:55:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13050 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 23:55:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 23:55:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5C15419AB8; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:55:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 49362199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:54:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5IEmSeH031549 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:48:28 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5IEmOSq031545 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:48:28 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license In-Reply-To: <200306181445.h5IEjU506393@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:48:24 -0600 (MDT) On Wed, 18 Jun 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > If the BSD Unix crowd put as much effort into writing their own > compilers as they put into the sort of posturing we saw yesterday, > they'd have had their own compilers years ago. Why is it strictly > necessary to use the Plan 9 compilers? Why not just write your own? > It shouldn't take more than a couple months of work, really. > They want to use the Plan 9 compilers because they're better, of course :) That settled, I would definitely like to see a more widespread adoption of the Plan 9 compilers -- if nothing else, simply because it'll make me feel like this operating system is going somewhere and not hitting a dead end (not that I'm implying this). Wouldn't you like to see those pesky 20% lack of speed (in the binary, not in compilation) disappear? Presumably that's what the BSD people mean by 'improvement'. andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 19 00:35:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 19 00:35:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13980 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2003 00:35:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13976 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2003 00:35:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2003 00:35:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8632E19AAA; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:35:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.179]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8520F19A40 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:34:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.74.10.80 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 15:34:43 -0000 Message-ID: <3EF09185.2090900@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:21:25 -0500 > > >Wouldn't you like to see those pesky 20% lack of speed (in the binary, not >in compilation) disappear? Presumably that's what the BSD people mean by >'improvement'. > If you ask me, it isn't so much about speed that interests the OpenBSD team. The tiny, yet smart, codebase of the Plan 9 compiler project allows the OpenBSD team to go in and hack it to hell much faster than something like GCC. Especially with their wishes of canary values and hacks that attempt to randomize memory values, helping to obfuscate buffer- overflow attacks. GCC has too large a codebase for them to go through and alter what they want without reading how their alterations effect the rest of the design. It seems clear that they're attacking the problem at the wrong end of the spectrum. Not to sound crude, but, if they had the skill to do this in the first place, wouldn't they have designed their own compilers by now? This kind of 'extended-openwall-grsecurity-etc' concept has been thrown around by the OpenBSD team for at least a year, that I know of. Don http://www.7f.no-ip.org/~north_ > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 19 00:40:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 19 00:40:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14080 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2003 00:40:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14076 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2003 00:40:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2003 00:40:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2FA0919AAF; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:40:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from faui03.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui03.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.30.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B9B5419A19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:39:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from folly.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by faui03.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IFdf6O023190 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:39:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: by folly.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 31451) id 998132D042; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:41:03 +0200 (CEST) From: Markus Friedl To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license Message-ID: <20030618154103.GA10946@folly> References: <3EF09185.2090900@ameritech.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3EF09185.2090900@ameritech.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:41:03 +0200 On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 11:21:25AM -0500, northern snowfall wrote: > If you ask me, it isn't so much about speed that interests > the OpenBSD team. The tiny, yet smart, codebase of the Plan > 9 compiler project allows the OpenBSD team to go in and hack > it to hell much faster than something like GCC. Especially > with their wishes of canary values and hacks that attempt > to randomize memory values, helping to obfuscate buffer- > overflow attacks. GCC has too large a codebase for them to > go through and alter what they want without reading how > their alterations effect the rest of the design. sorry, wrong guess. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 19 00:47:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 19 00:47:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14233 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2003 00:47:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14229 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2003 00:47:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2003 00:47:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 87C1A19A0C; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:47:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.181]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id D461219A0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:46:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.74.10.80 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 15:46:01 -0000 Message-ID: <3EF0942B.9000904@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license References: <3EF09185.2090900@ameritech.net> <20030618154103.GA10946@folly> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:32:43 -0500 > > >sorry, wrong guess. > Sure sure ;) Then why don't you tell us what your plans are? Don http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 19 01:22:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 19 01:22:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14819 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2003 01:22:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14815 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2003 01:22:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2003 01:22:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B93D219A8B; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:22:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.cs.utsa.edu (mail.cs.utsa.edu [129.115.29.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1FA0019A19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:21:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from upe.cs.utsa.edu (DHCP-29-212.cs.utsa.edu [129.115.29.212]) by mail.cs.utsa.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12BCBB5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:21:10 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Carlos Cardenas To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <32123CAE-A1A9-11D7-BE5E-00039357E914@upe.cs.utsa.edu> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Subject: [9fans] rookie mistake Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:23:29 -0500 I'm new to plan 9 so bear with me... I'm trying to install the extra packages like tex, cvs, etc...so I % 9660srv % mount /srv/9660 /n/dist //tex.iso % disk/kfscmd allow % /n/dist/tex.setup % replica/pull /n/dist/tex and this is what I get: replica/compactdb: opendb /n/kfs/dist/replica/client/tex.db: '/n/kfs/dist/replica/client/tex.db' does not exist replica/compactdb /n/kfs/dist/replica/client/tex.db: compactdb 1451: opendb /n/kfs/dist/replica/client/tex.db '/n/kfs/dist/replica/client/tex.db' does not exist This has happened to the tex, cvs, and perl isos...what's going on and how do I fix this? Thanks Carlos Cardenas ccardena@upe.cs.utsa.edu From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 19 01:23:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 19 01:23:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14852 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2003 01:23:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14848 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2003 01:23:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2003 01:23:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EC3B319AB9; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:23:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7005319A19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:22:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18107 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:22:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5IGMt506956 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:22:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306181622.h5IGMt506956@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:48:24 MDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:22:54 -0400 > > If the BSD Unix crowd put as much effort into writing their own > > compilers as they put into the sort of posturing we saw yesterday, > > they'd have had their own compilers years ago. Why is it strictly > > necessary to use the Plan 9 compilers? Why not just write your own? > > It shouldn't take more than a couple months of work, really. > > They want to use the Plan 9 compilers because they're better, of course :) Heh. :-) > That settled, I would definitely like to see a more widespread adoption of > the Plan 9 compilers -- if nothing else, simply because it'll make me feel > like this operating system is going somewhere and not hitting a dead end > (not that I'm implying this). I can understand that, but I'd rather see a more widespread adoption of the spirit of Plan 9 than any part of its code. That is, more function with less software. > Wouldn't you like to see those pesky 20% lack of speed (in the binary, not > in compilation) disappear? Presumably that's what the BSD people mean by > 'improvement'. It depends. Not if it means a 100% slowdown in the speed of the compiler, or an order of magnitude increase in the code size. The BSD people don't have a good track record in this area; I found it ironic that Theo called GNU software bloatware. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 19 01:32:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 19 01:32:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14920 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2003 01:32:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14916 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2003 01:32:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2003 01:32:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EF08719AB2; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:32:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A43C7199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:31:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5IGPFeH031729 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:25:15 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5IGPErE031725 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:25:14 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] rookie mistake In-Reply-To: <32123CAE-A1A9-11D7-BE5E-00039357E914@upe.cs.utsa.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:25:14 -0600 (MDT) this should do it: mount /srv/kfs /n/kfs On Wed, 18 Jun 2003, Carlos Cardenas wrote: > replica/compactdb: opendb /n/kfs/dist/replica/client/tex.db: > '/n/kfs/dist/replica/client/tex.db' does not exist From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 19 01:43:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 19 01:43:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15053 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2003 01:43:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15049 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2003 01:43:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2003 01:43:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ED7A9199F2; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:43:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [64.71.129.86]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 41B3F19A19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:42:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 1461266B2A; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:42:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20030618164234.GC7193@cassie.foobarbaz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Subject: [9fans] missing mkrootall? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:42:34 -0700 I'm trying to build a new kernel, but I am getting the following error: ../port/mkrootall \ boot bootpcdisk_out bootpcdisk.out\ ipconfig _386_bin_ip_ipconfig /386/bin/ip/ipconfig\ factotum _386_bin_auth_factotum /386/bin/auth/factotum\ kfs _386_bin_disk_kfs /386/bin/disk/kfs\ cfs _386_bin_cfs /386/bin/cfs\ >pcdisk.root.s ../port/mkrootall: '../port/mkrootall' does not exist mk: ../port/mkrootall \ ... : exit status=rc 42253: rc 42255: can't exec: '../port/mkrootall' does not exist, deleting 'pcdisk.root.s' /sys/src/9/port/mkbootrules is calling mkrootall, but it does not exist in my /sys/src/9/port directory or the on sources. -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 19 01:52:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 19 01:52:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15181 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2003 01:52:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15177 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2003 01:52:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2003 01:52:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F0F0B19AB6; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:52:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 146AF199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:51:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h5IGpI012654; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:51:18 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: <05a88b058bf1d878d8eea3b1cd3d73ba@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] missing mkrootall? From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030618164234.GC7193@cassie.foobarbaz.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-biotcgkuqpqprthlsojnhwpyss" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:51:18 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-biotcgkuqpqprthlsojnhwpyss Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit fixed --upas-biotcgkuqpqprthlsojnhwpyss Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Jun 18 12:43:22 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Wed Jun 18 12:43:20 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B507A19A75; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:43:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [64.71.129.86]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 41B3F19A19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:42:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 1461266B2A; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:42:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20030618164234.GC7193@cassie.foobarbaz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Subject: [9fans] missing mkrootall? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:42:34 -0700 I'm trying to build a new kernel, but I am getting the following error: ../port/mkrootall \ boot bootpcdisk_out bootpcdisk.out\ ipconfig _386_bin_ip_ipconfig /386/bin/ip/ipconfig\ factotum _386_bin_auth_factotum /386/bin/auth/factotum\ kfs _386_bin_disk_kfs /386/bin/disk/kfs\ cfs _386_bin_cfs /386/bin/cfs\ >pcdisk.root.s ../port/mkrootall: '../port/mkrootall' does not exist mk: ../port/mkrootall \ ... : exit status=rc 42253: rc 42255: can't exec: '../port/mkrootall' does not exist, deleting 'pcdisk.root.s' /sys/src/9/port/mkbootrules is calling mkrootall, but it does not exist in my /sys/src/9/port directory or the on sources. -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin --upas-biotcgkuqpqprthlsojnhwpyss-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 19 02:05:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 19 02:05:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15388 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2003 02:05:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15384 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2003 02:05:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2003 02:05:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 204A619A75; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:05:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [64.71.129.86]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5EE6219A60 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:04:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id DC06566B2A; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:04:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] missing mkrootall? Message-ID: <20030618170437.GD7193@cassie.foobarbaz.net> References: <20030618164234.GC7193@cassie.foobarbaz.net> <05a88b058bf1d878d8eea3b1cd3d73ba@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <05a88b058bf1d878d8eea3b1cd3d73ba@plan9.bell-labs.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:04:37 -0700 On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 12:51:18PM -0400, Russ Cox wrote: > fixed Thanks, Russ! :) -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 19 02:13:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 19 02:13:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15525 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2003 02:13:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15521 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2003 02:13:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2003 02:13:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0C6B519ABA; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:13:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7470619A40 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:12:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <05544b526ee1e01967943374aba2d64c@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:09:43 +0100 >>Wouldn't you like to see those pesky 20% lack of speed (in the binary, not i don't find anything like 20% difference on anything real i'm doing. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 19 02:16:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 19 02:16:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15601 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2003 02:16:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15597 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2003 02:16:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2003 02:16:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 56FF119A40; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:16:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6652C199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:15:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3388e8e746d13b621438bce839007163@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <20030618154103.GA10946@folly> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:12:25 +0100 > with their wishes of canary values and hacks that attempt > to randomize memory values, helping to obfuscate buffer- > overflow attacks. i think Pascal, Ada and others had a more straightforward approach to that one ... perhaps what they really want is not a C compiler at all... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 19 03:46:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 19 03:46:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16875 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2003 03:46:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16871 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2003 03:46:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2003 03:46:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B42CF19ABC; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:46:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-01.noos.net [212.198.2.70]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6898719A60 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:45:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 22475677 invoked by uid 0); 18 Jun 2003 18:44:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.227]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.70 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 18 Jun 2003 18:44:57 -0000 Message-ID: <002001c335c9$107c8340$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030618093406.GA15106@folly> Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:40:17 +0200 > (1) It would be very nice to have the plan9 toolchain replace gcc > in the Unix world. but i thought gcc was the solution to the world's problems ... just look at all it's _beautiful_ options ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 19 05:26:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 19 05:26:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18273 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2003 05:26:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18269 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2003 05:26:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2003 05:26:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 692A119AB4; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:26:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6F20319A19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:25:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h5IKPpm8021467 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:25:51 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h5IKPp9P002015 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:25:51 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license In-Reply-To: <002001c335c9$107c8340$e3944251@insultant.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:25:51 -0600 (MDT) On Wed, 18 Jun 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > but i thought gcc was the solution to the world's problems ... > > just look at all it's _beautiful_ options ... I think it needs more. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 19 05:57:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 19 05:57:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18999 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2003 05:57:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18995 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2003 05:57:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2003 05:57:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 742AE19AC2; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:57:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9C29519A32 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:56:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5IKpDeH032159 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:51:14 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5IKpDBD032155 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:51:13 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] stats.c bug Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:51:13 -0600 (MDT) there is a small bug with stats.c's readnum() routine -- the numbers for context switches, system calls and interrupts are unsigned long (I believe) but are converted using strtol(). if a machine is left running cpu-heavy applications for a long time (say, a week) those numbers will overflow and strtol() will return LONG_MAX as the value. the net effect is that stats.c will not display context, syscalls and interrupts properly. here's a sample cat /dev/systat: 0 2530252355 3182187863 2996662559 3944850 0 0 0 99 0 0 2530252917 3182188061 2996663328 3944996 0 0 0 98 0 0 2530253045 3182188170 2996663495 3945138 0 0 0 99 0 0 2530253224 3182188295 2996663728 3945284 0 0 0 100 0 there is also a new entry (the 10th number) reported by /dev/sysstat, which is undocumented in the man pages. in the kernel source (port/portdat.h) it is documented as: ulong avg_inintr; /* avg time per clock tick in interrupt handlers */ i took the liberty of modifying stats.c to include this statistic (note: i have not modified the manpage, nor added an argument option to invoke this from the command line -- i figured since 'idle' isn't there yet i'd better leave this for other people to decide). andrey plan9% diff stats.c /sys/src/cmd/stats.c 45d44 < InIntr, 65,66c64,65 < long devsysstat[10]; < long prevsysstat[10]; --- > long devsysstat[9]; > long prevsysstat[9]; 108d106 < Minintr, 129d126 < "add in intr ", 150d146 < inintrval(Machine*, long*, long*, int), 171d166 < inintrval, 434c429 < a[i] = strtoul(p, &p, 10); --- > a[i] = strtol(p, &p, 10); 676c671 < present[Minintr] | present[Msyscall] | present[Mtlbmiss] | present[Mtlbpurge]; --- > present[Msyscall] | present[Mtlbmiss] | present[Mtlbpurge]; 829,835d823 < *vmax = 100; < } < < void < inintrval(Machine *m, long *v, long *vmax, int) < { < *v = m->devsysstat[InIntr]; plan9% From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 19 06:00:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 19 06:00:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19013 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2003 06:00:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19009 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2003 06:00:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2003 06:00:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9C3CA19A19; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:00:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1642F19AC5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:59:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h5IKxZ030798; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:59:35 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] stats.c bug From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:59:34 -0400 > if a machine is left running cpu-heavy applications for a long time (say, > a week) those numbers will overflow and strtol() will return LONG_MAX as the > value. the net effect is that stats.c will not display context, syscalls and > interrupts properly. umm, what if i leave it running for two weeks? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 19 06:02:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 19 06:02:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19076 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2003 06:02:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19072 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2003 06:02:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2003 06:02:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7D15119AC7; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:02:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8CEB2199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:01:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO stinkhorn.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 681187 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:07:40 -0500 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:01:24 -0700 > I think it needs more. .... on their way, i guarantee. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 19 06:05:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 19 06:05:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19132 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2003 06:05:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19128 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2003 06:05:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2003 06:05:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A4574199B3; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:05:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from edoras.nas.com (edoras.nas.com [206.63.100.8]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B4D69199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:04:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from x33o50.nas.com (unknown [164.116.190.46]) by edoras.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ED7CEB80B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:04:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030618140332.02903730@mail.nas.com> X-Sender: fragment@mail.nas.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Jack Johnson Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license In-Reply-To: References: <002001c335c9$107c8340$e3944251@insultant.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:04:23 -0700 At 02:25 PM 6/18/2003 -0600, you wrote: >On Wed, 18 Jun 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > > just look at all it's _beautiful_ options ... >I think it needs more. It's GNU. It needs 'less'. -Jack From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 19 06:11:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 19 06:11:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19210 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2003 06:11:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19206 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2003 06:11:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2003 06:11:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BEC4419ACD; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:11:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-07.noos.net [212.198.2.76]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 927F819ACB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:10:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 4659861 invoked by uid 0); 18 Jun 2003 21:10:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.227]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.76 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 18 Jun 2003 21:10:15 -0000 Message-ID: <010d01c335dd$01f6c560$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <002001c335c9$107c8340$e3944251@insultant.net> <5.2.1.1.0.20030618140332.02903730@mail.nas.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:02:58 +0200 > It's GNU. It needs 'less'. Gnu's Not Useful From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 19 07:04:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 19 07:04:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20069 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2003 07:04:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20065 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2003 07:04:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2003 07:04:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1EF4619ABF; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:04:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 55F7619A32 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:03:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5ILvUeH032218 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:57:30 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5ILvU0Q032214 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:57:30 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] stats.c bug In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:57:30 -0600 (MDT) On Wed, 18 Jun 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > umm, what if i leave it running for two weeks? > the numbers would wrap and there will be a single instance where stats would report errors, afterwards it should be back to normal until the next wrap, no? if that's not the case (i.e. if /dev/sysstat reports 'long long'-s) then we should use strtoll()... i don't see the catch, sorry :( From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 19 08:07:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 19 08:07:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21033 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2003 08:07:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21029 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2003 08:07:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2003 08:07:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BC8C319AC6; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:07:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from thefrayedknot.armory.com (thefrayedknot.armory.com [192.122.209.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 99E7E19AC1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:06:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 32475 invoked by uid 1000); 18 Jun 2003 23:06:26 -0000 From: Andrew To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20030618230626.GA32362@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: [9fans] removing users Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:06:26 -0700 how does one remove a user from a fossil file server? do you edit the users file by hand have fossil re-read it and then delete their files? or is there a different way? thanks From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 19 15:09:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 19 15:09:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6120 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2003 15:09:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6113 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2003 15:09:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2003 15:09:38 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AD5D519AC0; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 02:09:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A868199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 02:08:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0ba60b2882a66fed4bff7907310cb9ba@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] watanabe 32 bit font Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:08:17 +0900 I found some bad news on our Japanese fonts which I put on our Plan 9 web page. The 32 bit Japanese Kanji fonts called Watanabe font may be copied illegally from somewhere. (http://khdd.net/kanou/fonts/so-called-watanabe.html (written in Japanese)) I'm using this Watanabe fonts as 32 and 48 bit bdf format made by someone else from those Watanabe fonts which we put onto http://basalt.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp/plan9/s45.html. If anyone got those fonts from our web site, please to be careful it may be violating something. I have no time now to improve this, and then, I will get rid of those fonts from our web page. kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 19 15:37:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 19 15:37:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7441 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2003 15:37:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7437 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2003 15:37:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2003 15:37:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3AD7919A32; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 02:37:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A45B019988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 02:36:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <805f1ee42342a282e83e3fce524f145e@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] removing users From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <20030618230626.GA32362@thefrayedknot.armory.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-atvfpefjmmqfszdbgolqbxmkqb" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:36:53 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-atvfpefjmmqfszdbgolqbxmkqb Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I edit the file by hand. There may be a better way. --upas-atvfpefjmmqfszdbgolqbxmkqb Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Thu Jun 19 01:07:27 MDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BC8C319AC6; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:07:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from thefrayedknot.armory.com (thefrayedknot.armory.com [192.122.209.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 99E7E19AC1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:06:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 32475 invoked by uid 1000); 18 Jun 2003 23:06:26 -0000 From: Andrew To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20030618230626.GA32362@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: [9fans] removing users Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:06:26 -0700 how does one remove a user from a fossil file server? do you edit the users file by hand have fossil re-read it and then delete their files? or is there a different way? thanks --upas-atvfpefjmmqfszdbgolqbxmkqb-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 19 17:46:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 19 17:46:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12783 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2003 17:46:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12778 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2003 17:46:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2003 17:46:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3863819A9B; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 04:46:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BEA42199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 04:45:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19Sv1V-0000T4-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:44:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Apurva Mehta Message-ID: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] panic exeption/interrupt 14 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:42:09 GMT I have searched the archives of this group and while there are many reports of this problem, there seems to be no solution that is usable by me.. OK, I have installed plan9 on my second hard disk (primary slave). It is a 3 GB hard disk which I have partitioned into a 2.3 GB first primary partition and a 700 MB second primary partition (This is the one plan9 is installed on). I have not created an install floppy disk, I just installed directly from the boot cd. In the last part of the installation, when it asked me to choose a method to boot plan9, I tried to create a boot floppy. However, that failed with the message to the tune of 'Cannot create on non-floppy something/cdboot.' Where 'something' is a string I cannot remember. My bios is capable of booting from a slave disk, so I am tempted to set the boot method to 'plan9'. However, I am weary that it may write to the MBR of my first hard disk (on which GRUB is installed). I want it to install to the MBR of my second hard disk. Where will it install? Getting back to the installation. Since I had no options, I pressed CTRL+D and quit the installation. I then set my BIOS to boot from my second hard disk (Magically, the plan9 partition was set as the boot partition. I verified this from '# /sbin/fdisk -l /dev/hdb' on linux). So I see the plan9 boot messages and get pleased. Then I get the infamous 'panic exception/interrupt 14'. There is nothing more to be done so I reboot. I cannot try the suggestions of adding "*nousbprobe=1 *noetherprobe=1" to my plan9.ini file as I do not have write access to such a file anywhere. What should I do to get plan 9 working? Thanks, - Apurva From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 19 17:46:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 19 17:46:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12811 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2003 17:46:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12807 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2003 17:46:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2003 17:46:41 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F204F19ACA; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 04:46:20 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA773199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 04:45:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19Sv1V-0000Sx-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:44:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Yi Li Message-ID: Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <67d1330d.0306180454.2763d057@posting.google.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Virtual PC problems Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:41:54 GMT Phaedrus wrote in message news:<67d1330d.0306180454.2763d057@posting.google.com>... > Hello, > This is first time I'm installing plan 9. I'm using flatpanel iMac > 1Ghz with resolution 1440x900 with millions of color setting. I > downloaded the iso image and using it for installation. > during installation I'm not able to install VGA driver as it the > default 640x480x8 and xga does not work. So I had to install with > inst/textonly. Did anybody have similar problems.Did I do something > wrong with VPC monitor settings. I'm allocating 64MB ram with 4MB > VRAM. > Since I'm new to this OS i.e plan9 please help me out. > > With Regards The boot floppy included in the iso doesn't recognize the video card of VPC; you need to make another boot disk that does. Use the tools included on the cd to make a boot disk and change vgadb to: ctlr 0xC000E="VIDEO B" link=vga hwgc=s3hwgc linear=1 ctlr=trio64 link=ibm8514 If your imac doesn't have a floppy drive: (1) find a pc to make the floppy (2) find a pc with VPC installed and convert your floppy to a VPC image (3) boot from the floppy image on your imac. Note the DEC/Intel 21041 network card emulated by Mac VPC 4/5/6 won't work. I'm working on a driver. yi From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 19 18:37:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 19 18:37:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14330 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2003 18:37:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14326 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2003 18:37:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2003 18:37:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7DD2219988; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 05:37:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.dirac.net (unknown [151.196.211.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4FA7E19988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 05:36:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 13229 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Jun 2003 09:34:35 -0000 Message-ID: <20030619093435.13228.qmail@mail.dirac.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license From: Keith Nash Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 19 Jun 2003 09:34:35 -0000 On Tuesday 17 June 2003 16:04, Theo de Raadt wrote: > That is not a license which makes it free. It is a *contract* with > consequences; let me be clear -- it is a contract with consequences > that I am unwilling to accept. This is an aspect of open-source license wars that I was not previously aware of. If the license is a contract, that contract is not enforceable as such in court. The reason (at least in English law, perhaps someone can comment on NY/USA law) is that for a contract to be created, there must be an exchange of value - i.e. Lucent gives you the software, you have to give them something of value (e.g. cash) in return. Therefore, no license where the software is given away can be a contract: it is merely a grant of rights to the licensor's copyrighted material (and/or patents and trademarks) - which is exactly what Theo would like it to be. > Or perhaps you guys are utterly blind to what is happening with IBM > and SCO right now. The IBM/SCO case is different, because they have an enforceable contract: IBM paid SCO for certain rights. Keith. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 19 22:52:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 19 22:52:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20159 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2003 22:52:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20155 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2003 22:52:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2003 22:52:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BAF4F199BE; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:52:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-11.noos.net [212.198.2.82]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 27122199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:51:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 91427073 invoked by uid 0); 19 Jun 2003 13:51:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.227]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.82 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 19 Jun 2003 13:51:34 -0000 Message-ID: <002301c33669$e2f6d8c0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030619093435.13228.qmail@mail.dirac.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:51:26 +0200 > If the license is a contract, that contract is not enforceable as such in court. > The reason (at least in English law, perhaps someone can comment on > NY/USA law) is that for a contract to be created, there must be an exchange > of value - i.e. Lucent gives you the software, you have to give them something > of value (e.g. cash) in return. UK law, a contract has three things: - offer [the thing being sold] - acceptance [when you say 'i wanna buy it'] - consideration [the thing given, usually money, so that you get the thing you want] that's a common law thing. contracts are usually things that you sign that both sides are bound by. however, having said that, in sweden (god forbid) if there's a typo in the contract and you buy, say, volvo for 1 öre, the court will quash the contract because it's 'obviously' 'wrong'. i suspect that the 'problem' with the plan 9 licence is because lucent is a us company who must comply with ITAR, the Denied Parties List, and various other export controls -- take it up with the us govt. end user certificates, etc etc ... eg. i can tell you of the existance of the Denied Parties List [DPL], but i cannot tell you who's on it. it's so long ago i did the DPL stuff i don't even want to talk about it, but it still applies to me. i do find it _hysterical_ that the BSD boys want the plan 9 compilers. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 19 22:56:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 19 22:56:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20212 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2003 22:56:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20208 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2003 22:56:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2003 22:56:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 004EC19AC9; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:56:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A96F0199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:55:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6abc29e2d3c8f16cce78bc841c5da00c@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license In-Reply-To: <002301c33669$e2f6d8c0$e3944251@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ztllbefcfkvwlfwdlfeigcgdaa" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:54:59 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ztllbefcfkvwlfwdlfeigcgdaa Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Follow the Part 772 link on our download page. That's the denied parties list. --upas-ztllbefcfkvwlfwdlfeigcgdaa Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Jun 19 09:52:28 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Jun 19 09:52:25 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6068419A2F; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:52:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-11.noos.net [212.198.2.82]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 27122199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:51:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 91427073 invoked by uid 0); 19 Jun 2003 13:51:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.227]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.82 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 19 Jun 2003 13:51:34 -0000 Message-ID: <002301c33669$e2f6d8c0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030619093435.13228.qmail@mail.dirac.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:51:26 +0200 > If the license is a contract, that contract is not enforceable as such in court. > The reason (at least in English law, perhaps someone can comment on > NY/USA law) is that for a contract to be created, there must be an exchange > of value - i.e. Lucent gives you the software, you have to give them something > of value (e.g. cash) in return. UK law, a contract has three things: - offer [the thing being sold] - acceptance [when you say 'i wanna buy it'] - consideration [the thing given, usually money, so that you get the thing you want] that's a common law thing. contracts are usually things that you sign that both sides are bound by. however, having said that, in sweden (god forbid) if there's a typo in the contract and you buy, say, volvo for 1 €re, the court will quash the contract because it's 'obviously' 'wrong'. i suspect that the 'problem' with the plan 9 licence is because lucent is a us company who must comply with ITAR, the Denied Parties List, and various other export controls -- take it up with the us govt. end user certificates, etc etc ... eg. i can tell you of the existance of the Denied Parties List [DPL], but i cannot tell you who's on it. it's so long ago i did the DPL stuff i don't even want to talk about it, but it still applies to me. i do find it _hysterical_ that the BSD boys want the plan 9 compilers. --upas-ztllbefcfkvwlfwdlfeigcgdaa-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 19 22:58:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 19 22:58:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20247 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2003 22:58:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20243 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2003 22:58:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2003 22:58:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 71D7B19AC1; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:58:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DBF3219A10 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:57:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] (no subject) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:57:47 -0400 I take it back, 772 is only the government end users list. I'll find the denied parties list. I too used to have a pointer but it doesn't work anymore, probably because they're constantly updating thelist. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 19 23:10:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 19 23:10:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20411 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2003 23:10:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20407 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2003 23:10:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2003 23:10:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 057ED19ACE; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:10:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-02.noos.net [212.198.2.71]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C5F8819A10 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:09:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 3968266 invoked by uid 0); 19 Jun 2003 14:09:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.227]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.71 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 19 Jun 2003 14:09:28 -0000 Message-ID: <003b01c3366c$62ed69c0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <6abc29e2d3c8f16cce78bc841c5da00c@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:09:23 +0200 > Follow the Part 772 link on our download page. That's the denied parties list. well, that looks like a bunch of definitions. when i was a lad, the names of the the 'denied parties' were on the list. they could _not_ be revealed. well, you could, but you'd be in a 'world of pain'. i had a bourne shell script which used 'agrep' to search it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 19 23:17:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 19 23:17:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20574 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Jun 2003 23:17:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20570 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2003 23:17:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Jun 2003 23:17:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6E47419AD1; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:17:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-09.noos.net [212.198.2.80]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 42BC2199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:16:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 68800260 invoked by uid 0); 19 Jun 2003 14:16:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.227]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.80 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 19 Jun 2003 14:16:54 -0000 Message-ID: <004501c3366d$6cc39cc0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] (no subject) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:16:46 +0200 > ... because they're constantly updating the list. yes they did and probably still do. to the _letter of the law [DPL]_ it was/is pretty serious stuff. from Network Security: The three golden rules of export control: 1. The rules don't make any sense. 2. If you get them wrong you go to jail. 3. The boys on the hill don't have a sense of humour. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 00:15:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 00:15:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21701 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 00:15:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21697 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 00:15:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 00:15:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B84A919AC8; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:15:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B0AEA199EE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:15:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] stats Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:14:59 -0400 For those who care, stats now does all its differences as ulongs so there shouldn't be a wrap arond problem. Also, MAXNUM was wrong for a while so there were some pretty wonky numbers happening on the multiprocessors since m->nproc was getting overwritten by odd numbers. Fixed now. I added the -I option that give you load/time idle/time in interrupt. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 00:32:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 00:32:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21922 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 00:32:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21918 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 00:32:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 00:32:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0A83F19AD2; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:32:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cleese.nas.com (cleese.nas.com [198.182.207.3]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 27D1F19A2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:31:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (cleese.nas.com [198.182.207.3]) by cleese.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2200936425 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:31:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Jack Johnson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Hans Reiser comment Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:31:49 -0700 (PDT) "ProteusQ: And are there any special tricks (above and beyond mastering your subject) to getting hired in this field once a degree is in hand? Hans: I was never able to get hired in this field, so I am probably not the one to ask about how to get hired.;-) Hmmm. Oh I know one! Don't tell your potential employer that you are working on your own file system nights and weekends, and you will retain all rights to it, and you won't stop work on it once they hire you.;-) You should probably read about Plan 9, and about namespaces generally." http://interviews.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/06/18/1516239&mode=thread -Jack From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 00:46:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 00:46:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22122 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 00:46:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22118 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 00:46:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 00:46:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1174119ACC; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:46:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 384EF1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:45:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19T1TH-0007kn-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:37:07 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Rob Ristroph Message-ID: <871xxqhzgv.fsf@rgristroph-austin.ath.cx> Organization: Road Runner - Texas Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: Subject: [9fans] Re: panic exeption/interrupt 14 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: rgr@sdf.lonestar.org List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:36:37 GMT >>>>> "Apurva" == Apurva Mehta writes: Apurva> Apurva> I have not created an install floppy disk, I just installed Apurva> directly from the boot cd. In the last part of the Apurva> installation, when it asked me to choose a method to boot Apurva> plan9, I tried to create a boot floppy. However, that failed Apurva> with the message to the tune of 'Cannot create on non-floppy Apurva> something/cdboot.' Where 'something' is a string I cannot Apurva> remember. I think Plan 9 is trying to write to the emulated floppy that is built when you make an El Torito bootable CD. This is an image of a floppy on the cd that is "faked" to look like it is the floppy drive. Of course since it is on the CD it is read only. I had a similar message when I tried to boot a CD made by taking all the software on the "Plan 9 additional software" page and putting it on a bootable CD in which the El Torito image was the install 9disk.flp file. It didn't work. So I think you should create a boot floppy. Sorry I can't say anything to your other problems. --Rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 01:19:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 01:19:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22559 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 01:19:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22555 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 01:19:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 01:19:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 667EA19AD5; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:19:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-06.noos.net [212.198.2.75]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7CED919AD3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:18:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 12743680 invoked by uid 0); 19 Jun 2003 15:53:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.227]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.75 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 19 Jun 2003 15:53:57 -0000 Message-ID: <009701c3367a$fb771020$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <871xxqhzgv.fsf@rgristroph-austin.ath.cx> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: panic exeption/interrupt 14 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 17:53:49 +0200 i may be confused, but this might help: http://www.insultant.net/repo/plan9/usbflop.html From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 01:45:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 01:45:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22995 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 01:45:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22990 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 01:45:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 01:45:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 51DA0199EE; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:45:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B5B77199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:44:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19T2RB-0001LH-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 17:39:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EF1E636.528FC748@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , Subject: Re: [9fans] Hans Reiser comment Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:38:28 GMT Probably more directly relevant is http://www.namesys.com/v4/v4.html The design seems highly compatible with the general ideas underlying Plan 9. Files as active objects, while not new, is interesting. In Plan 9 as I understand it, the file server instantiates the file object (using this picture) and implements its methods, the same way for all files it serves. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 01:57:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 01:57:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23180 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 01:57:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23176 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 01:57:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 01:57:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0000219980; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:57:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 746241998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1458e506f46cdd63ab90c671a7231295@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] 127.x.y.z Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:56:04 -0400 I changed libip/myipaddr.c to return the first address that isn't a loop back one or, if no such address is configured and the the loopback one is, then the loopback address. The previous behaviour was breaking things in, for example, dns and cs when a kernel with venti&fossil configured the loopback network before any real ip network. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 02:00:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 02:00:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23209 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 02:00:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23205 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 02:00:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 02:00:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D1E6C19ACB; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:00:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C0ED419ACB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:59:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19T2XL-0001QT-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 17:45:23 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Erik Terpstra Message-ID: <3ef1e77f$0$49117$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20030619093435.13228.qmail@mail.dirac.net>, <002301c33669$e2f6d8c0$e3944251@insultant.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:44:05 GMT boyd, rounin wrote: > > i do find it _hysterical_ that the BSD boys want the plan 9 compilers. > Obviously because they think the compilers are of great value, that's a compliment if you ask me. And even better, they are willing to share their improvements for the benefit of us all. What's hysterical about that? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 02:17:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 02:17:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23486 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 02:17:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23482 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 02:17:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 02:17:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 52A2419AD0; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:17:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-06.noos.net [212.198.2.75]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2356019A10 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:16:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 12773923 invoked by uid 0); 19 Jun 2003 17:15:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.227]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.75 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 19 Jun 2003 17:15:00 -0000 Message-ID: <00dd01c33686$4e20dd00$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3ef1e77f$0$49117$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 19:13:51 +0200 > What's hysterical about that? but i thought gcc was the 'one true compiler' ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 02:36:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 02:36:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23707 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 02:36:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23703 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 02:36:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 02:36:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6873519AD4; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:36:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A2EB219ACF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:35:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09868 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:35:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5JHZa705598 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:35:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306191735.h5JHZa705598@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:44:05 GMT." <3ef1e77f$0$49117$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:35:35 -0400 > > i do find it _hysterical_ that the BSD boys want the plan 9 compilers. > > And even better, they are willing to share > their improvements for the benefit of us all. Perhaps what Boyd finds hilarious is the idea of them making improvements. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 02:51:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 02:51:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23871 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 02:51:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23867 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 02:51:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 02:51:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AC1E119AD3; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:51:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 662B019A10 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:50:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h5JHor010935; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:50:53 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] removing users From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <805f1ee42342a282e83e3fce524f145e@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:50:53 -0400 If you're running dumps, it's not a good idea to remove users -- their ids will still be found looking in the dump. You can rename the uname with 'uname old %new' but you shouldn't get rid of the uid. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 02:52:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 02:52:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23879 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 02:52:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23875 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 02:52:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 02:52:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D14819AD9; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:52:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E2872199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:51:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6c379b9f498dc6d3fccd4624bc1d6d89@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license In-Reply-To: <3ef1e77f$0$49117$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-kzvtvmmezqwrbxbotwwkaddefr" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:51:47 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-kzvtvmmezqwrbxbotwwkaddefr Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Frankly, i'ld love having someone maintain the compilers, especially of we get new ones out of it. Unfortunately, I doubt that we can come up with a license that they'll like. I talked to our attorney about removing the indemnification requirement in section 4. His answer was that there were too many things not covered by the disclaimers. After the first few examples, I tend to agree. If we were getting revenue for the release, we could set aside money from profits for court battles and dump the indemnification nonsense. That's what we do with products. However, there aren't any revenues from plan 9 and the company is still waiting for its first profitable quarter in a number of years. In the past we had actually gotten smaller things out with just disclaimers. Our attorneys feel that they would be irresponsible to do that now. This is supported by mail I've gotten from some of you saying that the disclaimers are pretty much worthless in places like the UK. Nevertheless, I can see why OpenBSD would be afraid of it. It is true that if OpenBSD agreed to indemnify us, they could rerelease under their own license so the buck stops there, so to speak. However, that leaves OpenBSD obligated in a new way and I could see why they wouldn't like it, especially since they too are getting no revenue from the code. By the way, I've seen a lot of messages out there deprecating our lawyers. It is definitely not warranted. Their job is to protect our company without getting in the way of things that bring in revenue. Nevertheless, they've spent a lot of time with me and ehg trying to approximate what we want without jeopardazing the company. This is really amazing considering we have no real clout here. --upas-kzvtvmmezqwrbxbotwwkaddefr Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Jun 19 13:00:19 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Jun 19 13:00:16 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 516CC19A65; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:00:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C0ED419ACB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:59:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19T2XL-0001QT-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 17:45:23 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Erik Terpstra Message-ID: <3ef1e77f$0$49117$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20030619093435.13228.qmail@mail.dirac.net>, <002301c33669$e2f6d8c0$e3944251@insultant.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:44:05 GMT boyd, rounin wrote: > > i do find it _hysterical_ that the BSD boys want the plan 9 compilers. > Obviously because they think the compilers are of great value, that's a compliment if you ask me. And even better, they are willing to share their improvements for the benefit of us all. What's hysterical about that? --upas-kzvtvmmezqwrbxbotwwkaddefr-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 02:55:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 02:55:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23920 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 02:55:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23916 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 02:55:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 02:55:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE544199E8; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:55:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-06.noos.net [212.198.2.75]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F03761998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:54:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 12936673 invoked by uid 0); 19 Jun 2003 17:52:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.227]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.75 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 19 Jun 2003 17:52:56 -0000 Message-ID: <00eb01c3368b$9addff60$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200306191735.h5JHZa705598@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 19:52:52 +0200 > Perhaps what Boyd finds hilarious is the idea of them making improvements. yes, i'd like to see some improvements. where could we begin? err, killing - NFS - csh - vi - gcc - sendmail - symbolic links - emacs - curses - X11 - unix domain sockets - 'lpr' protocol - vi/emacs line editing in bash - 2M SLOC which is the linux kernel and that's just for starters ... then again, i'd be more than happy to see my world view contradicted. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 03:15:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 03:15:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24291 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 03:15:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24287 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 03:15:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 03:15:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3FE6719ADC; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:15:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp3.hushmail.com (smtp3.hushmail.com [65.39.178.33]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0EE0D19A10 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:14:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailserver3.hushmail.com (mailserver3.hushmail.com [65.39.178.45]) by smtp3.hushmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07A041986B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:13:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailserver3.hushmail.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserver3.hushmail.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h5JIDrvo043405 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:13:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ot@hushmail.com) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by mailserver3.hushmail.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id h5JIDraR043404 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:13:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200306191813.h5JIDraR043404@mailserver3.hushmail.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license From: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:13:49 -0700 as a proponent of both openbsd and plan9, i must say i am rather disappointed at this turn of events, but it is understandable none the less. it would be nice to see the plan9 toolchain in openbsd, but i'm sure it will be just fine without it. cross: i find your comments regarding the openbsd developers both ignorant and uncalled-for, especially from somebody who was complaining about spamming the list with nonsense. quit wasting my bandwidth with your childish flames. Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2 Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434 Big $$$ to be made with the HushMail Affiliate Program: https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 03:20:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 03:20:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24333 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 03:20:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24329 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 03:20:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 03:20:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8BF3D19ADE; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:20:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 214D119AD7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:19:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <215e07312685b5e8cbcafa5078e54f28@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license In-Reply-To: <200306191813.h5JIDraR043404@mailserver3.hushmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ynukjmsopofpytodwkzoaevhdm" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:19:31 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ynukjmsopofpytodwkzoaevhdm Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I too have a hard time understanding the wrath aimed at OpenBSD. I'm rather happy they exist. What comes out of the box from them is a hell of a lot safer than any other package and I sure wish the people using Redhat here where using that instead. --upas-ynukjmsopofpytodwkzoaevhdm Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Jun 19 14:15:23 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Jun 19 14:15:21 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0757019ADB; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:15:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp3.hushmail.com (smtp3.hushmail.com [65.39.178.33]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0EE0D19A10 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:14:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailserver3.hushmail.com (mailserver3.hushmail.com [65.39.178.45]) by smtp3.hushmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07A041986B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:13:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailserver3.hushmail.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserver3.hushmail.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h5JIDrvo043405 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:13:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ot@hushmail.com) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by mailserver3.hushmail.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id h5JIDraR043404 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:13:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200306191813.h5JIDraR043404@mailserver3.hushmail.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license From: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:13:49 -0700 as a proponent of both openbsd and plan9, i must say i am rather disappointed at this turn of events, but it is understandable none the less. it would be nice to see the plan9 toolchain in openbsd, but i'm sure it will be just fine without it. cross: i find your comments regarding the openbsd developers both ignorant and uncalled-for, especially from somebody who was complaining about spamming the list with nonsense. quit wasting my bandwidth with your childish flames. Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2 Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434 Big $$$ to be made with the HushMail Affiliate Program: https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427 --upas-ynukjmsopofpytodwkzoaevhdm-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 03:25:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 03:25:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24376 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 03:25:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24372 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 03:25:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 03:25:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4397819AE0; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:25:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from thefrayedknot.armory.com (thefrayedknot.armory.com [192.122.209.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id DD40719AD6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:24:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 6474 invoked by uid 1000); 19 Jun 2003 18:24:45 -0000 From: Andrew To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] removing users Message-ID: <20030619182445.GA6452@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <805f1ee42342a282e83e3fce524f145e@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:24:45 -0700 so i should rename them all to some null user which is unable to log in? On Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 01:50:53PM -0400, Russ Cox wrote: > If you're running dumps, it's not a good idea to remove > users -- their ids will still be found looking in the dump. > > You can rename the uname with 'uname old %new' but > you shouldn't get rid of the uid. > > Russ > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 03:40:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 03:40:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24617 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 03:40:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24613 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 03:40:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 03:40:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6461119AD7; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:40:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 060B91998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:39:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Jun 19 14:39:24 EDT 2003 Received: from 64.36.89.66 ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Thu Jun 19 14:39:22 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <1ed8992b4d189a4f14486a3a1559475d@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] removing users From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030619182445.GA6452@thefrayedknot.armory.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:39:28 -0400 > so i should rename them all to some null user which is unable to log in? Don't rename them all to the same thing. That will just confuse you later. We don't ever remove people -- we just turn off their accounts on the auth server. We had a spell where we renamed foo to usedtobefoo, but we've basically given up on that too. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 03:42:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 03:42:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24649 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 03:42:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24645 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 03:42:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 03:42:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6938219AE2; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:42:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-11.noos.net [212.198.2.82]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 083C719ADD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:41:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 91661159 invoked by uid 0); 19 Jun 2003 18:31:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.227]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.82 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 19 Jun 2003 18:31:20 -0000 Message-ID: <012601c33690$f7df4160$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <805f1ee42342a282e83e3fce524f145e@plan9.escet.urjc.es> <20030619182445.GA6452@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] removing users MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 20:31:12 +0200 > so i should rename them all to some null user which is unable to log in? removing users is always a bad idea. once you blow them away you have lost the trace of who they were, what they did and what they might be doing. they should always be retired; turn off their access but leave their 'existance' alone. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 03:44:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 03:44:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24669 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 03:44:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24665 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 03:44:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 03:44:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3B2C119A2F; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:44:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from thefrayedknot.armory.com (thefrayedknot.armory.com [192.122.209.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3B41519A6E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:43:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 6686 invoked by uid 1000); 19 Jun 2003 18:43:32 -0000 From: Andrew To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] removing users Message-ID: <20030619184332.GA6659@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030619182445.GA6452@thefrayedknot.armory.com> <1ed8992b4d189a4f14486a3a1559475d@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1ed8992b4d189a4f14486a3a1559475d@plan9.bell-labs.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:43:32 -0700 On Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 02:39:28PM -0400, Russ Cox wrote: > > so i should rename them all to some null user which is unable to log in? > > Don't rename them all to the same thing. > That will just confuse you later. We don't > ever remove people -- we just turn off their > accounts on the auth server. > > We had a spell where we renamed foo to usedtobefoo, > but we've basically given up on that too. > > Russ > is it okay to remove their files from the active filesystem (since venti has them already) or is that unnecessary? thanks for all the help. Andrew From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 03:49:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 03:49:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24714 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 03:49:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24710 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 03:49:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 03:49:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C36D519AD8; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:49:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AB20919A10 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:48:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Jun 19 14:48:02 EDT 2003 Received: from 64.36.89.66 ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Thu Jun 19 14:47:59 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <2a37c247aae9b8c9f37b893a649d9169@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] panic exeption/interrupt 14 From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:48:06 -0400 > My bios is capable of booting from a slave disk, so I am tempted to > set the boot method to 'plan9'. However, I am weary that it may write to > the MBR of my first hard disk (on which GRUB is installed). I want it > to install to the MBR of my second hard disk. Where will it install? If you choose 'plan9', it will set the Plan 9 partition active in the MBR of the disk containing the Plan 9 partition. You don't need to choose any boot method at all if you are going to use GRUB -- just point it at the Plan 9 partition (type 0x39) that you've got and it should be all set. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 03:50:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 03:50:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24731 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 03:50:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24727 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 03:50:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 03:50:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3358A19AE6; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:50:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D8B3119AE3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:49:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Jun 19 14:49:11 EDT 2003 Received: from 64.36.89.66 ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Thu Jun 19 14:49:08 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <2c6ef034c465e7f570d7da923a1d0e1a@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] panic exeption/interrupt 14 From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:49:15 -0400 > Getting back to the installation. Since I had no options, I pressed > CTRL+D and quit the installation. I then set my BIOS to boot from my > second hard disk (Magically, the plan9 partition was set as the boot > partition. I verified this from '# /sbin/fdisk -l /dev/hdb' on > linux). So I see the plan9 boot messages and get pleased. Then I get > the infamous 'panic exception/interrupt 14'. Boot into Linux and then mount the Plan 9 partition as though it were a dos partition: mount -t vfat /dev/hdb /mnt or whatever it is that needs to be typed. Then you can edit the plan9.ini file. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 03:50:55 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 03:50:55 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24739 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 03:50:54 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24735 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 03:50:53 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 03:50:53 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C1FE219AE7; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:50:22 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E97E719ADB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:49:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3643bbeabcff786c34b15f06876f75d2@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] removing users In-Reply-To: <20030619182445.GA6452@thefrayedknot.armory.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:48:59 -0400 On Thu Jun 19 14:25:21 EDT 2003, afrayedknot@thefrayedknot.armory.com wrote: > so i should rename them all to some null user which is unable to log in? > > On Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 01:50:53PM -0400, Russ Cox wrote: > > If you're running dumps, it's not a good idea to remove > > users -- their ids will still be found looking in the dump. > > > > You can rename the uname with 'uname old %new' but > > you shouldn't get rid of the uid. > > > > Russ the format of users file is: id:name:[leader]:[members[,members]] id is what is used to store in the file system name is what the outside world (9p) sees and deals with leader is the group leader (may be nil) members is a comma-separated list of who is in the group a check is made when the users file is read by the server that there is only one id<->name mapping. so, say we have bob:bob:: and create some files. these files are on permanent storage in the back end (venti, the original standalone fs, whatever) and the id 'bob' is tied to those files irrevocably. if bob leaves, we just need to turn off his ability to authenticate to the server, there's no real need to remove his files and, in fact, those files of his in the dump cannot be changed or removed. the idea is that if a new bob arrives we can still give him the name bob by changing the old bob entry to bob:bobwholeft:: (this is accomplished by using the 'uname' command in fossilcons(8), e.g. uname bob %bobwholeft ) and then making a new entry newbob:bob:: via uname bob newbob but there no way the new bob can access the old bob's files as they are stored under different ids. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 03:51:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 03:51:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24765 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 03:51:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24761 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 03:51:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 03:51:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C49E1998A; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:51:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D5E6019AEA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:50:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22835 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:50:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5JIoS705974 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:50:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306191850.h5JIoS705974@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:13:49 PDT." <200306191813.h5JIDraR043404@mailserver3.hushmail.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:50:28 -0400 > cross: Ugh. I feel like Charlie Brown. ``Why's everybody always picking on me?'' > i find your comments regarding the openbsd developers both > ignorant and uncalled-for, Really? Why? Can you point out something specific I said that you think is ignorant? Perhaps that I expressed doubt in the OpenBSD team? That's only after eight years of watching the various BSD projects go about doing what they do. If you disagree with my impression that's fine, but my opinion stands. > especially from somebody who was > complaining about spamming the list with nonsense. Looking over the last 150 messages in my 9fans folder, I see 11 from me. After re-reading all of those, I think only about 3 could be said to be flames in the sense I understand them. Even those aren't so much flames as tongue-in-check statements about certain individuals (Eric Raymond, Richard Stallman). I was critical, sure, but that's not the same as a flame; Boyd is the master of those. > quit wasting my bandwidth with your childish flames. Mirrors are helpful. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 03:52:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 03:52:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24774 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 03:52:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24770 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 03:52:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 03:52:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 450EB19AEA; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:52:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 20FE719ADA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:51:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Jun 19 14:51:07 EDT 2003 Received: from 64.36.89.66 ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Thu Jun 19 14:51:04 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <2c627fdb88507cffb446ce6dd914a015@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] removing users From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030619184332.GA6659@thefrayedknot.armory.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:51:12 -0400 > is it okay to remove their files from the active filesystem (since venti > has them already) or is that unnecessary? sure, but it won't free up any disk space. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 03:56:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 03:56:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24819 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 03:56:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24815 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 03:56:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 03:56:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2211619A10; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:56:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-10.noos.net [212.198.2.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2EAF419ADA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:55:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 81915319 invoked by uid 0); 19 Jun 2003 18:55:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.227]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.81 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 19 Jun 2003 18:55:25 -0000 Message-ID: <016201c33694$55a2d3e0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200306191850.h5JIoS705974@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 20:55:12 +0200 > I was critical, sure, but that's not the same as a flame; Boyd > is the master of those. actually, i'm 'masterless' :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 04:08:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 04:08:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24947 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 04:08:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24943 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 04:08:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 04:08:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B671F19ADB; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:08:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from yahoo.com (unknown [219.241.3.45]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0CF0819ADD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:06:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.gimmicc.net ([181.250.115.84]) by rly04.hottestmile.com with QMQP; 21 Jun 2003 11:09:14 -0800 Received: from 72.179.208.125 ([72.179.208.125]) by smtp18.yenddx.com with smtp; 21 Jun 2003 03:08:41 -0800 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail.halftomorrow.com) (41.235.110.229) by smtp.endend.nl with NNFMP; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 19:08:08 -0600 Received: from unknown (HELO mx03.listsystemsf.net) (5.117.77.249) by webmail.halftomorrow.com with asmtp; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:07:35 -0800 Received: from mail.naihautsui.co.kr ([100.85.35.40]) by smtp.mixedthings.net with esmtp; 20 Jun 2003 05:07:02 -1000 Message-ID: <3b5501c33695$9a0d5d60$88e5e55f@"Noreen Edmundson" noreenedmundsonhxht> From: "Noreen Edmundson" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 User-Agent: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Subject: [9fans] before you decide Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: "Noreen Edmundson" List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:04:25 -0900 Oatn Npriko Gxlnq Every global domain extension can be registred here. No minimum purchase term and no transfer restrictions. http://www.domainsforpeople.com T@ke me 0ff: http://www.domainsforpeople.com/cgi-bin/off_list.pl Athcxn Jdvjrksyrl Kues From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 04:09:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 04:09:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24955 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 04:09:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24951 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 04:09:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 04:09:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF7B919AF2; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:09:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from thefrayedknot.armory.com (thefrayedknot.armory.com [192.122.209.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A303219AF2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:08:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 6962 invoked by uid 1000); 19 Jun 2003 19:08:46 -0000 From: Andrew To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] removing users Message-ID: <20030619190846.GA6946@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030619184332.GA6659@thefrayedknot.armory.com> <2c627fdb88507cffb446ce6dd914a015@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2c627fdb88507cffb446ce6dd914a015@plan9.bell-labs.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:08:46 -0700 On Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 02:51:12PM -0400, Russ Cox wrote: > > is it okay to remove their files from the active filesystem (since venti > > has them already) or is that unnecessary? > > sure, but it won't free up any disk space. > i know it wont get removed from venti, but will it clear off any space from the fossil drive? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 04:12:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 04:12:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25029 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 04:12:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25025 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 04:12:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 04:12:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D56B19ADA; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:12:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DBB8019ADA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:11:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Jun 19 15:11:45 EDT 2003 Received: from 64.36.89.66 ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Thu Jun 19 15:11:42 EDT 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] removing users From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030619190846.GA6946@thefrayedknot.armory.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:11:51 -0400 > i know it wont get removed from venti, but will it clear off any space > from the fossil drive? no -- it's not taking up any space on the fossil drive once it goes to venti. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 04:18:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 04:18:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25125 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 04:18:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25121 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 04:18:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 04:18:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 032B619AE8; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:18:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id AC25E19ADD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:17:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 21440 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2003 19:17:57 -0000 Received: from roke.cse.psu.edu (HELO bio.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.12.14) by galapagos.cse.psu.edu with SMTP; 19 Jun 2003 19:17:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 2122 invoked by uid 991); 19 Jun 2003 19:17:57 -0000 Message-ID: <20030619191757.2121.qmail@f.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] removing users In-Reply-To: Message from Andrew of "Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:24:45 PDT." <20030619182445.GA6452@thefrayedknot.armory.com> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:17:57 -0400 > so i should rename them all to some null user which is unable to log in? If that's the issue, there should simply be a bit in some file that says "not allowed to log in". That's much better than overloading other fields. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 04:20:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 04:20:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25158 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 04:20:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25154 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 04:20:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 04:20:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9451219AE9; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:20:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EDB0519AE5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:19:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Jun 19 15:19:35 EDT 2003 Received: from 64.36.89.66 ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Thu Jun 19 15:19:32 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <3796a1cab2b5773f5a48da5640cd640f@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] removing users From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030619191757.2121.qmail@f.bio.cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:19:39 -0400 > If that's the issue, there should simply be a bit in some file that > says "not allowed to log in". That's much better than overloading > other fields. There is. On the authentication server. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 04:25:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 04:25:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25249 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 04:25:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25245 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 04:25:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 04:25:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6BCC119AEB; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:25:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp3.hushmail.com (smtp3.hushmail.com [65.39.178.33]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5EAF119AE4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:24:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailserver3.hushmail.com (mailserver3.hushmail.com [65.39.178.45]) by smtp3.hushmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D81732F87A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:24:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailserver3.hushmail.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserver3.hushmail.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h5JJOWvo045476 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:24:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ot@hushmail.com) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by mailserver3.hushmail.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id h5JJOW3P045475 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:24:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200306191924.h5JJOW3P045475@mailserver3.hushmail.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license From: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:24:31 -0700 > Ugh. I feel like Charlie Brown. ``Why's everybody always > picking on me?'' good grief. > Really? Why? Can you point out something specific I said that > you think is ignorant? Perhaps that I expressed doubt in the > OpenBSD team? That's only after eight years of watching the > various BSD projects go about doing what they do. it sounds like you either have some personal beef with the development team, or no experience with BSD unix. the openbsd team should be commended for their hard work, their os is one of the best choices out there. > If you disagree with my impression that's fine, but my opinion > stands. opinions that are not based on fact don't count. Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2 Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434 Big $$$ to be made with the HushMail Affiliate Program: https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 04:29:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 04:29:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25317 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 04:29:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25313 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 04:29:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 04:29:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4AD4219AED; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:29:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-10.noos.net [212.198.2.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE10919AEF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:28:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 80441159 invoked by uid 0); 19 Jun 2003 19:27:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.227]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.81 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 19 Jun 2003 19:27:58 -0000 Message-ID: <01ac01c33698$e179f160$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030619191757.2121.qmail@f.bio.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] removing users MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 21:27:53 +0200 > If that's the issue, there should simply be a bit in some file that > says "not allowed to log in". no, the auth server/protocol should be sufficiently flexible to invalidate their auth credentials and that should do it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 04:32:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 04:32:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25363 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 04:32:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25359 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 04:32:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 04:32:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 72C6E19AEF; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:32:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-12.noos.net [212.198.2.83]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C06B619AF1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:31:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 10302171 invoked by uid 0); 19 Jun 2003 19:31:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.227]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.83 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 19 Jun 2003 19:31:01 -0000 Message-ID: <01c101c33699$4ec16820$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] removing users MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 21:30:57 +0200 > no, the auth server/protocol should be sufficiently flexible to > invalidate their auth credentials and that should do it. having said that, i have commited the crime of overloading 'in-band' data. russ' later post is what i should have said. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 04:51:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 04:51:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25569 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 04:51:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25565 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 04:51:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 04:51:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 779B919ADF; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:51:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-03.noos.net [212.198.2.72]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 82A8D19A6E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:50:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 11418033 invoked by uid 0); 19 Jun 2003 18:19:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.227]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.72 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 19 Jun 2003 18:19:00 -0000 Message-ID: <010a01c3368f$3f157560$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <6c379b9f498dc6d3fccd4624bc1d6d89@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 20:15:01 +0200 > Nevertheless, they've spent a lot of time > with me and ehg trying to approximate what we want without > jeopardazing the company. This is really amazing considering > we have no real clout here. well i'd have to agree. having worked for Digital i know how hard it is to get just 100-1000 lines of code out the door and that's before you get into export regulated stuff. i think the BSD boys should read up on how much serious grief you (and the company) can get into when you work for a US company and you fall foul of the export regs. it's a whole new ballgame ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 04:51:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 04:51:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25577 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 04:51:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25573 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 04:51:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 04:51:38 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A07C919AE3; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:51:20 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4BA2319A65 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:50:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01192 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:50:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5JJol706204 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:50:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306191950.h5JJol706204@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:24:31 PDT." <200306191924.h5JJOW3P045475@mailserver3.hushmail.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:50:46 -0400 > > Ugh. I feel like Charlie Brown. ``Why's everybody always > > picking on me?'' > > good grief. Heh. Good one. > > Really? Why? Can you point out something specific I said that > > you think is ignorant? Perhaps that I expressed doubt in the > > OpenBSD team? That's only after eight years of watching the > > various BSD projects go about doing what they do. > > it sounds like you either have some personal beef with the > development team, or no experience with BSD unix. the openbsd > team should be commended for their hard work, their os is one > of the best choices out there. I think you missed the part where I talked about 8 years of watching the various BSD projects. I didn't mention using BSD on various RISC and CISC machines prior to the introduction of the `free' varients. I actually have quite a lot of experience with BSD Unix, having run it almost exclusively for about five years on various hardware platforms. What I saw was the systems become more complex, more bloated, and more difficult to maintain; often gratuitously so. Then the developers patted themselves on the back. No progress there; everyone had forgotten the lessons they learned in the 70's and early 80's. Having looked at the source code for OpenBSD, I'm hessitant to commend them for their hard work. They do work hard, but they'd be better off if they worked smarter instead. Also, OpenBSD might be one of the best choices for OS's out there (why?) but in a field starved for competition, that's not saying too much. But this is all rather far afield from Plan 9. > > If you disagree with my impression that's fine, but my opinion > > stands. > > opinions that are not based on fact don't count. As stated above, the opinions are based on fact; often facts that predate Net/2. I could site specific examples, if you like; feel free to ping me off the list about them. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 04:57:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 04:57:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25664 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 04:57:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25660 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 04:57:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 04:57:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 07A8519AE1; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:57:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-06.noos.net [212.198.2.75]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 50C2119A65 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:56:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 13004490 invoked by uid 0); 19 Jun 2003 19:56:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.227]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.75 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 19 Jun 2003 19:56:51 -0000 Message-ID: <020001c3369c$eaa0a320$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200306191950.h5JJol706204@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 21:56:32 +0200 what did dennis say once? unix retarded o/s development by 10 years linux retarded o/s development by 20 years iirc From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 05:00:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 05:00:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25712 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 05:00:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25708 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 05:00:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 05:00:41 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0C74919AF5; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:00:27 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 7480819AE4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:59:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 22042 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2003 19:59:24 -0000 Received: from roke.cse.psu.edu (HELO bio.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.12.14) by galapagos.cse.psu.edu with SMTP; 19 Jun 2003 19:59:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 2392 invoked by uid 991); 19 Jun 2003 19:59:24 -0000 Message-ID: <20030619195924.2391.qmail@f.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:59:24 -0400 Look guys, flaming other people and other projects is off topic for this list, in addition to being unamusing. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 05:15:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 05:15:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25904 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 05:15:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25900 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 05:15:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 05:15:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 013E219AF0; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:15:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D87E919A6E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:14:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h5JKEdck012597 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:14:40 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h5JKEd9P010837 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:14:39 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license In-Reply-To: <010a01c3368f$3f157560$e3944251@insultant.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:14:39 -0600 (MDT) On Thu, 19 Jun 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > i think the BSD boys should read up on how much serious > grief you (and the company) can get into when you work for > a US company and you fall foul of the export regs. just look at what SCO is now trying to do to IBM: get them in trouble with the USG over export regs. I expect some IBM folks are really pissed by now. It's not that much fun in jail I hear. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 05:19:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 05:19:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25949 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 05:19:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25940 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 05:19:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 05:19:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5007619AEE; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:19:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D38F119A6E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:18:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37ba2d21d1b33f8f0e9a95815e1390c5@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] LPL version 1.02 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:18:57 -0400 New license version in http://plan9.bell-labs.com/hidden/newlicense.html We changed the export section to take out the indemnification. It now just warns you that we the recipient is responsible for worrying about export control. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 05:20:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 05:20:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25994 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 05:20:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25990 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 05:20:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 05:20:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1306419AFA; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:20:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-01.noos.net [212.198.2.70]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 25DA619A65 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:19:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 23178752 invoked by uid 0); 19 Jun 2003 20:08:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.227]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.70 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 19 Jun 2003 20:08:53 -0000 Message-ID: <021b01c3369e$98a52bc0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030619195924.2391.qmail@f.bio.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:08:45 +0200 > Look guys, flaming other people and other projects is off topic for this > list, in addition to being unamusing. yup. i'll drop it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 06:34:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 06:34:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26987 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 06:34:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26983 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 06:34:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 06:34:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4C6D619AF3; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 17:34:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cleese.nas.com (cleese.nas.com [198.182.207.3]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 44BC619AD6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 17:33:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (cleese.nas.com [198.182.207.3]) by cleese.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 290B536425 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:33:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Jack Johnson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license In-Reply-To: <00eb01c3368b$9addff60$e3944251@insultant.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:33:25 -0700 (PDT) On Thu, 19 Jun 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > yes, i'd like to see some improvements. where could we begin? err, killing > - sendmail > > then again, i'd be more than happy to see my world view contradicted. I've never been a sendmail fan, but the latest SysAdmin has a great article on securing sendmail on random hosts (if you find you have to do that sort of thing). It made me take a second look at sendmail, and now I don't hate it (for the application outlined in the article). -Jack From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 06:35:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 06:35:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27038 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 06:35:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27034 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 06:35:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 06:35:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AC53619ADD; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 17:35:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cleese.nas.com (cleese.nas.com [198.182.207.3]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 55D4519ADD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 17:34:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (cleese.nas.com [198.182.207.3]) by cleese.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85D0F36425 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:34:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Jack Johnson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license In-Reply-To: <00eb01c3368b$9addff60$e3944251@insultant.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:34:37 -0700 (PDT) On Thu, 19 Jun 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > - 'lpr' protocol What's wrong with lpr? I know there's better, but what's *wrong* with it? -Jack From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 10:27:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 10:27:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 910 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 10:27:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 906 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 10:27:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 10:27:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0D76719AE5; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 21:27:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2679019AE5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 19:19:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27767 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 19:19:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5JNJ1707171 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 19:19:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306192319.h5JNJ1707171@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:34:37 PDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 19:19:01 -0400 > > - 'lpr' protocol > > What's wrong with lpr? I know there's better, but what's *wrong* with it? In all seriousness; jokes, flames, etc aside. It's become clear (to me, at least) that that's a very complex question to answer adequately. There's no clear, universal definition of what `wrong' means: it could be technical, philosophical, political, etc. What type of answer are you looking for? I'd say the problems with lpr are mostly technical; it's an antequated protocol that's more complex than it needs to be, and the protocol definition (in the RFC) is really a distillation of the protocol in the Berkeley lpr implementation. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 10:44:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 10:44:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1660 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 10:44:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1656 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 10:44:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 10:44:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 02ADF19AF1; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 21:44:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9250E19A72 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 21:43:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7b0ce11649aaa2635d997462330e338f@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] pxe load Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 21:43:17 -0400 I've updated sources with a 9pxeload, a version of 9load that can be loaded using the PXE BIOS on an ethernet card. It still needs work, i.e., I want to change it to use DHCP instead of BOOTP and make it fetch a plan9.ini off the net should it need one. However, its pretty usabel as it is. More as I get more working. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 10:53:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 10:53:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2044 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 10:53:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2040 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 10:53:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 10:53:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D5D9B19AF6; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 21:53:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from garlic.apnic.net (garlic.apnic.net [202.12.29.224]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E7C5319AD6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 21:52:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from garlic.apnic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by garlic.apnic.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K1qeVZ001576; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:52:40 +1000 (EST) Received: (from ggm@localhost) by garlic.apnic.net (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5K1qZ0b001872; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:52:35 +1000 (EST) From: George Michaelson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: cross@math.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license Message-Id: <20030620115233.3dc850df.ggm@apnic.net> In-Reply-To: <200306192319.h5JNJ1707171@augusta.math.psu.edu> References: <200306192319.h5JNJ1707171@augusta.math.psu.edu> Organization: APNIC Pty Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.0claws38 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-pc-netbsdelf1.6T) X-Fruit-Of-The-Month-Club: persimmon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:52:33 +1000 On Thu, 19 Jun 2003 19:19:01 -0400 Dan Cross wrote: > > > - 'lpr' protocol > > > > What's wrong with lpr? I know there's better, but what's *wrong* with it? > > In all seriousness; jokes, flames, etc aside. It's become clear (to > me, at least) that that's a very complex question to answer > adequately. There's no clear, universal definition of what `wrong' > means: it could be technical, philosophical, political, etc. What type > of answer are you looking for? I'd say the problems with lpr are > mostly technical; it's an antequated protocol that's more complex than > it needs to be, and the protocol definition (in the RFC) is really a > distillation of the protocol in the Berkeley lpr implementation. > > - Dan C. "On the other hand..." speaking as a (l)user, and sometime sysadmin, I have almost never had a /etc/printcap -> lpr -> problem I couldn't fix simply. But the twisted train-wreck of filesytem-embedded pipes, sockets, binary loaded files, non-optional filters, definitions files, logs which is SysV printing control is even worse. CUPS is silly. The problem is really with PRINTERS. people never quite got used to the idea of write-only devices. Printers have to 'chatter' and also have to be slapped around a bit to do things like [fold|spindle|mutilate] or optional headers, or meta-state like "load font" or other crap. If thats taken out of the print spooler path, it can get much simpler. Does anybody remember the piano-device to sit on an IBM golfball, and make it a printer? -george -- George Michaelson | APNIC Email: ggm@apnic.net | PO Box 2131 Milton QLD 4064 Phone: +61 7 3367 0490 | Australia Fax: +61 7 3367 0482 | http://www.apnic.net From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 11:33:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 11:33:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4129 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 11:33:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4125 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 11:33:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 11:33:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C709A19AF8; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:33:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 691F319AF4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:32:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <20030620115233.3dc850df.ggm@apnic.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 19:32:57 -0700 Printer spoolers once had a purpose, when printers really were *line* printers; that is, they were dumb devices that printed a line of text at a time, using a rotating drum or chain and hammers that beat paper against the drum or chain. This is the model behind V7's lp(4) for the DEC LP-11. Many young people have probably never seen one of these in person, except perhaps in a computer museum. Once printers became stand-alone devices on a network, they should have become a lot smarter. They had TCP/IP and PostScript interpreters inside them, after all, so they had to have some smarts. I think Imagen more-or-less got this right but virtually no one since has. A printer should be able to take a very large number of concurrent connections and spool the PostScript files sent internally. Especially nowadays, with the costs of the hardware components so low, a printer ought to have a studly processor, a big bag of memory and the usual obscenely-large disk, and some of the high-end printers do. As far as I know, though, even the best of these can take at most 0001 simultaneous inbound connections. As a client, I ought to be able to open a connection to a printer (and almost never have the connection attempt fail), throw Postscript at the printer, close the connection, and be able to count on the printer to print that file, *eventually*, come power outage, paper jam, or running out of paper or toner. (Sending cutesy messages saying roughly `the paper jammed, and you didn't notice within 4 minutes, so I threw your job away; have a nice day' is not acceptable.) Given such printers, one doesn't need a print spooler at all (or rather, the print spooler moves into the printer, where it's invisible). In the absence of such printers, one could put a Plan 9 CPU server in front of one or more printers, but present a file system interface instead of lp or port 515. Clients could then import the spool directory and add, remove or list jobs. The printer would be able to authenticate the client and thus apply suitable restrictions on what can be removed, for example. Copying a Postscript file into the spool directory should be sufficient to queue it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 11:41:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 11:41:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4416 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 11:41:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4412 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 11:41:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 11:41:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B4DCC19AF4; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:41:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B93E919A6F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:40:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9c3af01f9f61367514148666fdce26cc@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 19:40:41 -0700 Actually the line printers of yore usually beat an ink-impregnated ribbon against paper. Details, details. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 11:44:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 11:44:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4552 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 11:44:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4547 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 11:44:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 11:44:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C53A719AF9; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:44:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mx01.netapp.com (mx01.netapp.com [198.95.226.53]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1A96519A6F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:43:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frejya.corp.netapp.com (frejya [10.10.20.91]) by mx01.netapp.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/NTAP-1.4) with ESMTP id h5K2hHJo026933 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 19:43:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from place.org (wynne-lap [10.34.17.24]) by frejya.corp.netapp.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/NTAP-1.5) with ESMTP id h5K2hGtf020858 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 19:43:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3EF274C4.1000609@place.org> From: Stephen Wynne User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license References: <200306192319.h5JNJ1707171@augusta.math.psu.edu> <20030620115233.3dc850df.ggm@apnic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 19:43:16 -0700 George Michaelson wrote: > The problem is really with PRINTERS. Good point. Printers need painful levels of attention no matter how one communicates with them. Which brings to mind my sense that our opinions about these things vary the depending on how much we know about them. Innovations are rare, change is continuous, and most of us have to suffer with whatever features and flaws are available. Most of you know a lot about system implementation. For a given area, some of you also know what works and what doesn't, and why. I think end users have some knowledge of that, but most of the time they just use what's in front of them, and complain about it in inarticulate terms, like "I had to work late unclogging that queue again!" I know from personal experience with lost hard disks, network glitches, and crashing printers. Isn't operating system innovation getting harder? I can't believe that user interfaces are getting easier. My 79 year-old father is less comfortable with the MacOS interface for 8.1 than he was with 3.0, and I'm sure he'd be happier with UNIX MH mail, most days, than he is with Microsoft Outlook. New activities involving the Internet and mail should have been simpler for him, but there are too many settings and graphical controls that don't matter, and it's a mystery as to where to find all the ones that do. I think we could learn a lot from asking an old man why he's not happy with a newer computer. I laughed when my dad asked me how to combine two instances of Exchange so that he had all of his mail and addresses in the same place. This was over the phone and I don't use MacOS, so I had to set the problem aside for a while. I'm sure he's beset by the problem of too many places for places to be on his storage hierarchy now, for one thing. Wouldn't Apple like us to believe that usability innovation had been improving for the last 20 years instead of merely holding the line, or even losing to increased system complexity? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 11:57:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 11:57:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5100 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 11:57:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5096 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 11:57:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 11:57:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A994819AFD; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:57:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A2A0519AD6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:56:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5K2uVeH001759 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 20:56:31 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5K2uVBH001755 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 20:56:31 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 20:56:30 -0600 (MDT) On Thu, 19 Jun 2003, Geoff Collyer wrote: > In the absence of such printers, one could put a Plan 9 CPU server in > front of one or more printers, but present a file system interface > instead of lp or port 515. Clients could then import the spool > directory and add, remove or list jobs. > bah! impossible! unthinkable! stop dreaming and let's get back to putting 'ld' in the 2.5.x kernel. :) ps: yes, i am a plan9 zealot. and i like it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 12:11:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 12:11:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5752 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 12:11:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5748 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 12:11:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 12:11:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 14E3319B00; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:11:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sccrmhc11.attbi.com (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E9C6519A72 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:10:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nospam.com (h00a0cca0b74a.ne.client2.attbi.com[24.34.51.37](untrusted sender)) by attbi.com (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <20030620031043011007t2r5e>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 03:10:43 +0000 Message-ID: <3EF27981.9020803@nospam.com> From: bs User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.9) Gecko/20020408 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pxe load References: <7b0ce11649aaa2635d997462330e338f@plan9.bell-labs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: bs@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:03:29 -0400 David Presotto wrote: > I've updated sources with a 9pxeload, a version of 9load that can be > loaded using the PXE BIOS on an ethernet card. > > It still needs work, i.e., I want to change it to use DHCP instead of > BOOTP and make it fetch a plan9.ini off the net should it need one. > However, its pretty usabel as it is. More as I get more working. Will it work with any UNDI stack? If not, it should. One can use something like PXELinux that already does this. It is preferable to do the typical PXE way. pxeprom -> bootloader (PXELinux) -> preboot (ld.com) -> boot (9load) via dhcp, pxe, and tftp. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 12:18:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 12:18:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6106 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 12:18:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6102 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 12:18:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 12:18:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3235619B03; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:18:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9750C19AFB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:17:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pxe load In-Reply-To: <3EF27981.9020803@nospam.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-afyzieygutfpzhhvlpauzdlqxn" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:17:47 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-afyzieygutfpzhhvlpauzdlqxn Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit no reason why it wouldn't work with any undi stack. It just depends on the program getting loaded and after that it takes over. If you want to use PXELinux, go right ahead. --upas-afyzieygutfpzhhvlpauzdlqxn Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Jun 19 23:11:23 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Jun 19 23:11:20 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D89E519AFE; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:11:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sccrmhc11.attbi.com (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E9C6519A72 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:10:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nospam.com (h00a0cca0b74a.ne.client2.attbi.com[24.34.51.37](untrusted sender)) by attbi.com (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <20030620031043011007t2r5e>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 03:10:43 +0000 Message-ID: <3EF27981.9020803@nospam.com> From: bs User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.9) Gecko/20020408 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pxe load References: <7b0ce11649aaa2635d997462330e338f@plan9.bell-labs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: bs@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:03:29 -0400 David Presotto wrote: > I've updated sources with a 9pxeload, a version of 9load that can be > loaded using the PXE BIOS on an ethernet card. > > It still needs work, i.e., I want to change it to use DHCP instead of > BOOTP and make it fetch a plan9.ini off the net should it need one. > However, its pretty usabel as it is. More as I get more working. Will it work with any UNDI stack? If not, it should. One can use something like PXELinux that already does this. It is preferable to do the typical PXE way. pxeprom -> bootloader (PXELinux) -> preboot (ld.com) -> boot (9load) via dhcp, pxe, and tftp. --upas-afyzieygutfpzhhvlpauzdlqxn-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 14:10:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 14:10:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11102 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 14:10:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11096 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 14:10:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 14:10:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 02FD919B01; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 01:10:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 44D3619A65 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 01:09:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h5K523np005031 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 07:02:05 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h5K520AJ005030 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 07:02:00 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license Message-ID: <20030620070158.A2250@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <3ef1e77f$0$49117$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <6c379b9f498dc6d3fccd4624bc1d6d89@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <6c379b9f498dc6d3fccd4624bc1d6d89@plan9.bell-labs.com>; from David Presotto on Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 01:51:47PM -0400 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 07:01:59 +0200 On Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 01:51:47PM -0400, David Presotto wrote: > > Nevertheless, I can see why OpenBSD would be afraid of it. > It is true that if OpenBSD agreed to indemnify us, they > could rerelease under their own license so the buck stops > there, so to speak. However, that leaves OpenBSD obligated > in a new way and I could see why they wouldn't like it, > especially since they too are getting no revenue from the code. > It is tempting to think of the FSF as providing an indemnifying role, as they are funded, but (a) they may not have deep enough pockets and (b) they may be less than suitable from the community's point of view. Still, it may be worth considering. Founding a Plan 9 "open source" foundation would be somewhat more difficult. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 15:55:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 15:55:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16354 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 15:55:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16350 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 15:55:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 15:55:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4CE5419AFE; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 02:55:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1864819AFE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 02:54:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA21449 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 02:54:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5K6sq709001 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 02:54:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306200654.h5K6sq709001@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:52:33 +1000." <20030620115233.3dc850df.ggm@apnic.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 02:54:52 -0400 > "On the other hand..." > > speaking as a (l)user, and sometime sysadmin, I have almost never had a > /etc/printcap -> lpr -> problem I couldn't fix simply. You must be very pious, as you escaped Dante's fifth level of hell, err, I mean transcript. :-) But seriously, here's an anecdote about the BSD printing setup. This is from my own personal experience. When HP printers with directly attached network cards first became available, it was thrilling. No more clunky serial or parallel cables strung up to the back of Sun's or VAXen or early model RS/6000's or whatever workstation du jour one was using; putting something in /etc/printcap pointing to a remote machine (the IP address on the printer) using port 515 seemed to work like a charm. Except for a couple of things, one of which Geoff alluded to but I'll give gory details on. The printer would only respond to one TCP connection at a time, and what's worse, it was single tasking. So you still needed to set up a central Unix machine to spool to the printer (using the print spooling protocol, oddly enough). The single tasking nature of the printer meant that if you spooled a file to it, and then tried to check the queue with lpq while it was printing, lpq would hang until it was done printing that job. Also, since you were printing to a remote printer, and lpd wouldn't run filters for remote printers (unless rm= was set to the local machine, which it wasn't, since rm= was set to the printer), you couldn't do any preprocessing on data sent to the printer. So setting up a filter to convert, say, TeX DVI files to postscript automatically once they were spooled flat out didn't work. The solution was to define a fake printer entry for a local printer, with its output file set to /dev/null (remember to create a new character special device file with mknod, using the null device's major and minor numbers so that /dev/null itself wouldn't be gratuitously locked by lpd!) and then set up a filter that would make a direct connection to the printer on your behalf (luckily, one could magically connect to port 9000 on the printer and just dump postscript into it), possible relaying status information from the printer to the local queue's status file. We had a perl script to do it all for us which was kind of neat. It would put the number of the currently printing page in the printer status file, so lpq could tell you how far through the file you were (a *big* improvement). Apparantly HP had some stuff that worked reasonably well, too, but we didn't use it. Overloading the if= filter, and doing content conversion there was easier than dealing with all the special file types and font options and so on that the LPD protocol sort of magically recognized (the list was woefully out of data; we had postscript and line printers, not Varian's or phototypsetters). In the intervening six or seven years, the situation has scarsely gotten better. It's still nearly impossible to just plug a postscript printer into the network and print to it from a Unix machine without fiddling around a bit. Sure, the interface might have gotten better, but the underlying technical problems are still there. Again, I think this goes back to the definition of `wrong' thing. A lot of people don't care if their sysadmin widget gives them a way to configure printers in a relatively painless way. You could be spooling stuff using the latter day equivalent of punched cards (oops, you kind of are with the Berkeley protocol...), and it wouldn't matter as long as it worked. However, to others, it would still be an incorrect solution because you have to put too many wrappers around it to get it to smell nice. > But the twisted train-wreck of filesytem-embedded pipes, sockets, binary > loaded files, non-optional filters, definitions files, logs which is SysV > printing control is even worse. Oh, don't get me started on that. I used to do ersatz ports of lpd to Solaris and other System V varieties because, even though the BSD printing subsystem was suboptimal, it was a lot easier to deal with than the SysV stuff. When Solaris 6 came out with support for /etc/printers.conf, we were all quite happy. We could finally set up a reasonable print spooler on some old recycled machine (usually an older model Sun running one of the BSD's) and have the Solaris machines point to that. It, in turn, would fan out to the network printers using the above mentioned setup. Clunky though the whole thing was, it was more reliable than the Solaris implementation of System V printing. Another interesting variety was AIX printing, where ``lpd'' wasn't so much a printing daemon as it was a generic batch queuing system. I remember once someone who was rather fond of AIX defending it to me by telling me, ``what other system do you know where you can kick off a batch job using lpr?'' My mind boggled and I utterly failed to come up with an appropriate response. I had already ported Berkeley lpd to my AIX machines. > CUPS is silly. Things designed by committee usually are..... > The problem is really with PRINTERS. people never quite got used to the idea > of write-only devices. Printers have to 'chatter' and also have to be slapped > around a bit to do things like [fold|spindle|mutilate] or optional headers, or > meta-state like "load font" or other crap. > > If thats taken out of the print spooler path, it can get much simpler. Well, in defense of the printers.... It *is* nice if they have some way to tell you that they ran out of ink or had a paper jam or any of the myriad of things that can go wrong in such a sensitive device with so many moving parts. That more or less implies that they have to talk back to you. However, I will agree with the idea of seperation of spooling duties, and ``talking to the printing device'' duties. The funny thing is that VMS did this pretty well. > Does anybody remember the piano-device to sit on an IBM golfball, and make > it a printer? I've seen IBM wine, but never golf balls. I didn't even know they were into sporting equipment.... :-) - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 15:56:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 15:56:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16392 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 15:56:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16388 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 15:56:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 15:56:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7F9B519B05; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 02:56:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F1A6419A6F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 02:55:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA21598 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 02:55:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5K6tn709019 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 02:55:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306200655.h5K6tn709019@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 19 Jun 2003 19:40:41 PDT." <9c3af01f9f61367514148666fdce26cc@collyer.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 02:55:49 -0400 > Actually the line printers of yore usually beat an ink-impregnated > ribbon against paper. Details, details. You forgot to mention that sometimes the old printer ribbons could make for interesting reading.... - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 16:06:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 16:06:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16962 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 16:06:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16958 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 16:06:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 16:06:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 27B8D19B04; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 03:06:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 650EF19A53 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 03:05:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA22732 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 03:05:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5K758709088 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 03:05:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306200705.h5K758709088@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 20 Jun 2003 02:54:52 EDT." <200306200654.h5K6sq709001@augusta.math.psu.edu> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 03:05:08 -0400 > We could finally set up a reasonable print > spooler on some old recycled machine (usually an older model Sun running > one of the BSD's) and have the Solaris machines point to that. It, in > turn, would fan out to the network printers using the above mentioned > setup. Clunky though the whole thing was, it was more reliable than the > Solaris implementation of System V printing. Err, I should qualify this. Prior to Solaris 2.6, we used the native Solaris system V stuff to try and spool jobs to a machine running `normal' lpd. However, it was terribly unreliable; it would frequently crash, and jobs would just sort of mysteriously disappear. Eventually, we took to using my ports of Berkeley lpd under Solaris, but that was difficult to maintain (you had to be careful when applying patches that you wouldn't accidentally overwrite the locally modified printing system with part of the system's printing system that had been updated, but that you had already replaced). Also, there was the problem of the system printing tools no longer working. It was easy enough to provide replacements for command line use, but any time they were embedded in a command, it could get ugly. /etc/printers.conf really was a big improvement. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 16:52:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 16:52:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19321 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 16:52:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19316 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 16:52:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 16:52:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6DAC519B0A; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 03:52:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail-in-04.arcor-online.net (mail-in-04.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 538BB19B08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 03:51:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.arcor.net (dsl-213-023-013-050.arcor-ip.net [213.23.13.50]) by mail-in-04.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 848AC1970A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:51:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: by localhost.arcor.net (Postfix, from userid 31451) id 643D72D003; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:52:34 +0200 (CEST) From: Markus Friedl To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license Message-ID: <20030620075234.GA3844@folly> References: <20030618093406.GA15106@folly> <200306181445.h5IEjU506393@augusta.math.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200306181445.h5IEjU506393@augusta.math.psu.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:52:34 +0200 On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 10:45:30AM -0400, Dan Cross wrote: > Why is it strictly > necessary to use the Plan 9 compilers? I'm using plan9 since 1995 and its toolchain is very good compared to other things that are out there, so it would be a nice thing to have plan9 toolchain available for other plattforms as well. You don't care, but other people might. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 17:24:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 17:24:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20808 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 17:24:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20800 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 17:24:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 17:24:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A2CCA19B0F; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 04:24:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from minster.cs.york.ac.uk (minster.cs.york.ac.uk [144.32.40.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6BB4819B06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 04:23:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pc118 ([144.32.41.119] helo=pc118.cs.york.ac.uk ident=1530) by minster.cs.york.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 19TH7x-0002JN-00; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:20:09 +0100 Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license From: John Murdie To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: john@cs.york.ac.uk In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Message-Id: <1056097208.28648.170.camel@pc118> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanner: exiscan *19TH7x-0002JN-00*4iwcdIUZBVE* Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 20 Jun 2003 09:20:08 +0100 On Thu, 2003-06-19 at 22:34, Jack Johnson wrote: > On Thu, 19 Jun 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > > - 'lpr' protocol > > What's wrong with lpr? I know there's better, but what's *wrong* with it? > > -Jack > For a start, lpr (more properly the RFC1179 Berkeley print) protocol allows only a success/fail result; there's nowhere to put error or informational messages in the protocol. Everybody and his aunt seems to have made incompatible extensions; the Berkeley print server we use here has had to be extended to deal with PLP, Novell, HP and Microsoft extensions. It's messy. There's worse; I doubt that Plan 9ers will like IPP (the Internet Printing Protocol) - http://www.pwg.org/ipp/. The first time I saw it, I thought I'd picked up an X25 manual by mistake. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 17:46:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 17:46:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21546 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 17:46:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21542 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 17:46:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 17:46:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A4C7419B0D; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 04:46:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8DD2419B06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 04:45:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19THV3-0006Xx-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:44:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EF20B6D.ACA456AB@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200306191813.h5JIDraR043404@mailserver3.hushmail.com>, <215e07312685b5e8cbcafa5078e54f28@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:39:35 GMT David Presotto wrote: > I too have a hard time understanding the wrath aimed at OpenBSD. Earth people are all stupid, stupid, stupid! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 17:46:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 17:46:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21557 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 17:46:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21553 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 17:46:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 17:46:46 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 35CBE19B14; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 04:46:21 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A0E8819B0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 04:45:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19THV4-0006Y3-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:44:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EF20C77.8D52EA85@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , <2a37c247aae9b8c9f37b893a649d9169@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] panic exeption/interrupt 14 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:39:46 GMT Russ Cox wrote: > If you choose 'plan9', it will set the Plan 9 partition active > in the MBR of the disk containing the Plan 9 partition. While messing up Solaris 9's ability to boot.. Not a complaint, just a warning. (My actual complaint is how disorganized and incompatible all the PC OSes and utilities are when it comes to the partition table etc. For example, it seems that there is a new FAT* filesystem invented every couple of years as disk sizes continue to outgrow the previous version's limits.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 18:34:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 18:34:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23324 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 18:34:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23320 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 18:34:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 18:34:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 20CD519B0E; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 05:34:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.147]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7AEBC19B06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 05:33:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.140]) by mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20030620093325.UKWT5863.mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 21:33:25 +1200 Received: from [210.54.71.3] by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20030620093324.BHYR2781.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.54.71.3]> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 21:33:24 +1200 X-Sender: xtr17008101@pop3.xtra.co.nz Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Andrew Simmons Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 21:30:19 +1200 >> CUPS is silly. > Things designed by committee usually are..... Oh now, come on!! What about CORBA and ANSI Standard C++? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 21:46:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 21:46:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27751 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 21:46:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27747 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 21:46:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 21:46:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 50CEF19B17; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:46:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB4B219A66 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:45:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19TL3q-0002gt-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:32:10 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Ralph Corderoy Message-ID: Organization: InputPlus Ltd. References: <8d6610c1704160db2574f117e9bc17e7@plan9.bell-labs.com>, <200306172128.h5HLS4502667@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:31:47 GMT Hi Dan, > Or that hell had frozen over. Just stick a gratuitous `g' in front of > the name and see what RMS does. Maybe that's why he refers to it as `Plan Nine'; perhaps he's hoping for `Plan Gnine'. Cheers, -- Ralph Corderoy. http://inputplus.co.uk/ralph/ http://troff.org/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 21:58:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 21:58:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27932 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 21:58:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27928 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 21:58:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 21:58:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 32ABB19B06; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:58:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 93BB319A53 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:57:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 32026 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 12:57:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO proweb.co.uk) (192.168.1.100) by juice.thebigchoice.com with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 12:57:36 -0000 Message-ID: <3EF304C0.7000106@proweb.co.uk> From: matt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license References: <8d6610c1704160db2574f117e9bc17e7@plan9.bell-labs.com>, <200306172128.h5HLS4502667@augusta.math.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:57:36 +0100 Ralph Corderoy wrote: >Hi Dan, > > > >>Or that hell had frozen over. Just stick a gratuitous `g' in front of >>the name and see what RMS does. >> >> > >Maybe that's why he refers to it as `Plan Nine'; perhaps he's hoping >for `Plan Gnine'. > > so long as it's not "plan k9" we'll be okay ( KDE does some interesting things wrt files using proto://filename such as samba://windows_box/folder naturally only seems to work in Konqueror & klib friends though. I'm not sure if anyone has added shell script support (and dont care 8) I remember reading years ago that NT was going to have synthetic file support. So you could have an executable called dave.bmp and when the data was requested it executed the program and returned the data. How excited I was to install NT, read MSDN and discover only "shortcuts". Maybe it's in there somewhere, if it is I would warrant that the symantics change with every service pack. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 23:05:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 23:05:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28954 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 23:05:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28950 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 23:05:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 23:05:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B72219AFC; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:05:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ophiopogon.tommyk.com (unknown [204.60.70.245]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E7B719A66 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:04:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tommyk.com (bofh.tommyk.com [204.60.70.253]) by ophiopogon.tommyk.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h5KE4q77001218 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:04:53 -0400 Message-ID: <3EF3148D.9040208@tommyk.com> From: Jason Gurtz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4b) Gecko/20030515 Thunderbird/0.1a X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.33 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: jason@tommyk.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:05:01 -0400 Jack Johnson wrote: > On Thu, 19 Jun 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > >>yes, i'd like to see some improvements. where could we begin? err, killing >> - sendmail >> >>then again, i'd be more than happy to see my world view contradicted. The ammount of "dedication" required to learn to setup sendmail is daunting but my experience has been that once it's setup it just works. Of course, that the relevent O'Reilly book is well over a thousand pages doesn't bode well for it. Cheers, ~Jason -- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 23:11:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 23:11:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29052 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 23:11:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29048 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 23:11:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 23:11:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1C2C819AEC; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:11:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B1E3C19AEC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:10:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h5KEIGj32732; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:18:16 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: , In-Reply-To: <20030620070158.A2250@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:18:16 -0500 (CDT) On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Lucio De Re wrote: > It is tempting to think of the FSF as providing an indemnifying > role, Don't see why. The FSF does -nothing- do protect a user against damage or loss. In -fact- the GPL has a section that -specifically- states that all damages and such are the responsibility of the user. What the FSF does do is provide technology and a 'political discussion' to raise interest in that technology. As to what one may use that technology for and the chances that are taken in that effort are up to the end user, as they should be. > Still, it may be worth considering. Founding a Plan 9 "open source" > foundation would be somewhat more difficult. Why? Some people, motivation, & money. In a very real way Hangar 18 is a 'open source foundation' with the express intent of fostering the greater use of Plan 9, Inferno, & Open Source technology in general in -distributed general purpose- computing. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 23:17:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 23:17:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29171 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 23:17:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29167 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 23:17:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 23:17:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5972C19AFF; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:17:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 21C6019B08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:16:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h5KE8Znp007509 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 16:08:36 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h5KE8ZLZ007508 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 16:08:35 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license Message-ID: <20030620160834.Y2250@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <3EF3148D.9040208@tommyk.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <3EF3148D.9040208@tommyk.com>; from Jason Gurtz on Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 10:05:01AM -0400 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 16:08:34 +0200 On Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 10:05:01AM -0400, Jason Gurtz wrote: > > The ammount of "dedication" required to learn to setup sendmail is > daunting but my experience has been that once it's setup it just works. > Well, some of Sendmail's good press is unjustified, and so is some of its notoriety. My take is that those who know sendmail intimately (I wish I could count myself amongst them) are many and capable, making sendmail the best tool for the job. > Of course, that the relevent O'Reilly book is well over a thousand pages > doesn't bode well for it. > I guess the very complexity acts as a selection criterion, a bit the way FORTRAN produced amongst the most sophisticated scientific programs. I found the O'Reilly book quite readable, actually. One of few tomes that size I have read from cover to cover (and forgotten much more than I remember - I was in Botswana at the time, not the most vibrant of environments, reading the bat book was a good way of killing some very boring evenings :-) ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 23:24:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 23:24:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29284 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 23:24:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29280 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 23:24:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 23:24:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8BF3B19B08; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:24:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4358A19A66 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:23:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h5KEFFnp007544; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 16:15:15 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h5KEFEeU007543; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 16:15:14 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: hangar18-general@open-forge.org, hell@einstein.ssz.com Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license Message-ID: <20030620161513.Z2250@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, hangar18-general@open-forge.org, hell@einstein.ssz.com References: <20030620070158.A2250@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from Jim Choate on Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 09:18:16AM -0500 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 16:15:14 +0200 On Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 09:18:16AM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > > On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Lucio De Re wrote: > > > It is tempting to think of the FSF as providing an indemnifying > > role, > > Don't see why. The FSF does -nothing- do protect a user against damage or > loss. In -fact- the GPL has a section that -specifically- states that all > damages and such are the responsibility of the user. > Maybe I was too obscure. My point is that it's Lucent that needs "protecting" because they are an easy target, as mentioned here. The idea would be to "donate" the code to a foundation with the certainty that the donor would no longer be held responsible for any further use of the code whatsoever. Nothing about protecting the user, precisely. > > Still, it may be worth considering. Founding a Plan 9 "open source" > > foundation would be somewhat more difficult. > > Why? Some people, motivation, & money. In a very real way Hangar 18 is a > 'open source foundation' with the express intent of fostering the greater > use of Plan 9, Inferno, & Open Source technology in general in > -distributed general purpose- computing. > Show me the beef, mate! You've farted about this aplenty, but what have you got to show for it? ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 23:29:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 23:29:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29335 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 23:29:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29331 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 23:29:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 23:29:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F043019B13; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:29:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.de [213.165.64.20]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8B13A19B0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:28:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 1786 invoked by uid 65534); 20 Jun 2003 14:28:52 -0000 Received: from PPP-219.65.8.131.mum1.vsnl.net.in (EHLO home.woodlands) (219.65.8.131) by mail.gmx.net (mp002) with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 16:28:52 +0200 From: Apurva Mehta To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] panic exeption/interrupt 14 Message-Id: <20030620165529.41d26d59.apurva@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: <2c6ef034c465e7f570d7da923a1d0e1a@plan9.bell-labs.com> References: <2c6ef034c465e7f570d7da923a1d0e1a@plan9.bell-labs.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.1 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 16:55:29 +0530 On Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:49:15 -0400 "Russ Cox" wrote: > > Getting back to the installation. Since I had no options, I > > pressed CTRL+D and quit the installation. I then set my BIOS to > > boot from my second hard disk (Magically, the plan9 partition was > > set as the boot partition. I verified this from '# /sbin/fdisk -l > > /dev/hdb' on linux). So I see the plan9 boot messages and get > > pleased. Then I get the infamous 'panic exception/interrupt 14'. > > Boot into Linux and then mount the Plan 9 partition as though > it were a dos partition: > > mount -t vfat /dev/hdb /mnt > > or whatever it is that needs to be typed. Then you can edit > the plan9.ini file. Thanks, I added the following lines to my plan9.ini file and I still get the"panic exception/interrupt 14" error. Here are the lines I added : *nousbprobe=1 *noetherprobe=1 I have done a floppy install and created a boot floppy. Even with the boot floppy I get the same error. - Apurva From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 23:31:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 23:31:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29372 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 23:31:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29368 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 23:31:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 23:31:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3FD0619AFB; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:31:17 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ophiopogon.tommyk.com (unknown [204.60.70.245]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5B70A19A66 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:30:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tommyk.com (bofh.tommyk.com [204.60.70.253]) by ophiopogon.tommyk.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h5KEUq77001433 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:30:52 -0400 Message-ID: <3EF31AA3.5010009@tommyk.com> From: Jason Gurtz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4b) Gecko/20030515 Thunderbird/0.1a X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license References: <3EF3148D.9040208@tommyk.com> <20030620160834.Y2250@cackle.proxima.alt.za> In-Reply-To: <20030620160834.Y2250@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.33 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: jason@tommyk.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:30:59 -0400 Lucio De Re wrote: Agreed on all counts. Cheers, ~Jason -- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 20 23:40:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 20 23:40:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29567 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Jun 2003 23:40:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29563 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 23:40:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 23:40:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 32E2019A53; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:40:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca (plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.140.200]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0066F19B10 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:39:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rcbilson@localhost) by plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3p2/8.9.3) id KAA17056 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:39:01 -0400 From: Richard C Bilson Message-Id: <200306201439.KAA17056@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:39:01 -0400 > From: Dan Cross > > Another interesting variety was AIX printing, where ``lpd'' wasn't so > much a printing daemon as it was a generic batch queuing system. I > remember once someone who was rather fond of AIX defending it to me by > telling me, ``what other system do you know where you can kick off a > batch job using lpr?'' My mind boggled and I utterly failed to come > up with an appropriate response. I had already ported Berkeley > lpd to my AIX machines. It is interesting to me, in light of this, that Linux lpd has become the system of choice for discriminating hackers to queue their mp3 files: http://patrick.wagstrom.net/weblog/archives/000128.html Another case of software that is just good enough to prevent a rational alternative from taking hold. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 00:32:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 00:32:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30401 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 00:32:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30397 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 00:32:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 00:32:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EC9D119B12; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:32:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sigint.cs.purdue.edu (sigint.cs.purdue.edu [128.10.2.82]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 85E6D19AD6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:31:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sigint.cs.purdue.edu (Postfix, from userid 118) id EF309279C; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:31:02 -0500 (EST) From: splite@purdue.edu To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license Message-ID: <20030620103102.A1097@sigint.cs.purdue.edu> References: <1056097208.28648.170.camel@pc118> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1056097208.28648.170.camel@pc118>; from john@cs.york.ac.uk on Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 09:20:08AM +0100 X-Disclaimer: Any similarity to an opinion of Purdue is purely coincidental Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:31:02 -0500 On Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 09:20:08AM +0100, John Murdie wrote: > > For a start, lpr (more properly the RFC1179 Berkeley print) protocol > allows only a success/fail result; there's nowhere to put error or > informational messages in the protocol. Sure there is; the return value is an octet. They had 255 possible failure codes, but the BSD implementation returns 001 on error regardless of the cause. They could have at least distinguished transient (e.g. no spool space) versus permanent (no such queue) errors. One could provide distinct error codes without violating the RFC, though with the following result: > Everybody and his aunt seems to > have made incompatible extensions; the Berkeley print server we use here > has had to be extended to deal with PLP, Novell, HP and Microsoft > extensions. It's messy. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 00:44:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 00:44:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30531 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 00:44:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30527 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 00:44:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 00:44:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 396F119B16; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:44:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (server.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D53D19B0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:43:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from foible.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with SMTP id h5KFgul25677 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:42:58 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: lucio@proxima.alt.za MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Fossil or something else altogether? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:42:56 +0200 I got the following while trying to build /386/lib/libsec.a: ar 490: suicide: sys: trap: fault write addr=0x4 pc=0x00001077 mk: ar vu /386/lib/libsec.a ... : exit status=rc 488: ar 490: sys: trap: fault write addr=0x4 pc=0x00001077 which I resorted to after failing to link a CPU kernel: size 9fiddle setupDESstate: /386/lib/libsec.a(setupDES3state): opcode out of range 0 probably not a .8 file ... thinking that perhaps the library had been corrupted. Now I'm quite baffled, this is not a problem I have encountered before. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 00:59:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 00:59:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30715 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 00:59:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30711 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 00:59:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 00:59:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 156C119B1D; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:59:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.de [213.165.64.20]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9657319B15 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:58:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 10588 invoked by uid 65534); 20 Jun 2003 15:58:06 -0000 Received: from PPP-219.65.8.239.mum1.vsnl.net.in (EHLO home.woodlands) (219.65.8.239) by mail.gmx.net (mp015) with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 17:58:06 +0200 From: Apurva Mehta To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] panic exeption/interrupt 14 Message-Id: <20030620212802.172f89ba.apurva@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: <2a37c247aae9b8c9f37b893a649d9169@plan9.bell-labs.com> References: <2a37c247aae9b8c9f37b893a649d9169@plan9.bell-labs.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.1 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 21:28:02 +0530 On Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:48:06 -0400 "Russ Cox" wrote: > > My bios is capable of booting from a slave disk, so I am tempted > > to set the boot method to 'plan9'. However, I am weary that it may > > write to the MBR of my first hard disk (on which GRUB is > > installed). I want it to install to the MBR of my second hard > > disk. Where will it install? > > If you choose 'plan9', it will set the Plan 9 partition active > in the MBR of the disk containing the Plan 9 partition. > > You don't need to choose any boot method at all if you > are going to use GRUB -- just point it at the Plan 9 partition > (type 0x39) that you've got and it should be all set. I am no grub guru, where do I put '0x39'? Here is my current grub configuration for plan9: -- rootnoverify(hd1, 1) chainloader --force +1 makeactive boot -- Thanks, - Apurva From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 01:12:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 01:12:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30977 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 01:12:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30973 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 01:12:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 01:12:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1B43F19B0C; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:12:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2893619A72 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:11:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Jun 20 12:11:45 EDT 2003 Received: from 64.36.89.66 ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Fri Jun 20 12:11:42 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <9c6a34ac3b58fefad07e6e8255f0f7bf@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] panic exeption/interrupt 14 From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030620212802.172f89ba.apurva@gmx.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:11:40 -0400 > I am no grub guru, where do I put '0x39'? You don't have to put it anywhere. I was just telling you the partition type because many fdisk variants don't know about Plan 9 partitions. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 01:16:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 01:16:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31019 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 01:16:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31015 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 01:16:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 01:16:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 139F419A66; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:16:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9DE6319A66 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:15:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Fossil or something else altogether? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-sqtzyxjpkhzfksbsjulzaoywpm" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:15:25 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-sqtzyxjpkhzfksbsjulzaoywpm Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit mk clean and remove the .a --upas-sqtzyxjpkhzfksbsjulzaoywpm Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Jun 20 11:44:23 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Fri Jun 20 11:44:21 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1BFA819B15; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:44:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (server.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D53D19B0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:43:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from foible.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with SMTP id h5KFgul25677 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:42:58 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: lucio@proxima.alt.za MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Fossil or something else altogether? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:42:56 +0200 I got the following while trying to build /386/lib/libsec.a: ar 490: suicide: sys: trap: fault write addr=0x4 pc=0x00001077 mk: ar vu /386/lib/libsec.a ... : exit status=rc 488: ar 490: sys: trap: fault write addr=0x4 pc=0x00001077 which I resorted to after failing to link a CPU kernel: size 9fiddle setupDESstate: /386/lib/libsec.a(setupDES3state): opcode out of range 0 probably not a .8 file ... thinking that perhaps the library had been corrupted. Now I'm quite baffled, this is not a problem I have encountered before. ++L --upas-sqtzyxjpkhzfksbsjulzaoywpm-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 01:28:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 01:28:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31169 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 01:28:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31165 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 01:28:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 01:28:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B409919B1C; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:28:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3A33819B07 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:27:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Jun 20 12:27:50 EDT 2003 Received: from 64.36.89.66 ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Fri Jun 20 12:27:47 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <8ea9c5d768be9f53188d42be51f2cce8@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] panic exeption/interrupt 14 From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030620165529.41d26d59.apurva@gmx.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:27:45 -0400 > Thanks, I added the following lines to my plan9.ini file and I still > get the"panic exception/interrupt 14" error. Here are the lines I > added : > > *nousbprobe=1 > *noetherprobe=1 > > I have done a floppy install and created a boot floppy. Even with the > boot floppy I get the same error. That's weird. Try copying the 9load binary from your install floppy onto your boot floppy, and see if that fixes the problem. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 01:37:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 01:37:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31362 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 01:37:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31358 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 01:37:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 01:37:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D1ADB19B1F; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:37:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3243C19AD6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:36:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h5KGiA202286; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:44:10 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: , In-Reply-To: <20030620161513.Z2250@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:44:09 -0500 (CDT) On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Lucio De Re wrote: > Maybe I was too obscure. My point is that it's Lucent that needs > "protecting" because they are an easy target, as mentioned here. Why is Lucent an easy target if their license is strong in the warranty and expectations department backed up by law? > The idea would be to "donate" the code to a foundation with the > certainty that the donor would no longer be held responsible for > any further use of the code whatsoever. Nothing about protecting > the user, precisely. Ok, not 'obscure' but rather 'obfuscatory' or 'byzantine' perhaps. Over complicated, instead of dealing with the issue it shifts it to another third party. Same sort of logical error as 'panspermia' as the answer to 'where did life come from'. If the courts recognize the concept of 'no warranty' and the general GPL fair use intent then there is nothing to worry about. The major unknown factor in this argument is that the GPL has never been tested in court. The major unknown with business is the 'what if' and until the GPL has been sullied in the mud a few times it will always be a skittish herd. Lucent is motivated by basic self preservation, unfortunately they find themselves (like many business) stuck at the fork in the road. Unsure of which branch to take. The failure of modern relativism/pragmatism, no underlying principles deeper than 'it works'. That branch is a opportunity for new enterprises and efforts. > Show me the beef, mate! You've farted about this aplenty, but what > have you got to show for it? Tit for tat, mate. When would you like to connect your cluster to the H18 cluster? Rob and I happen to be doing a rebuild this afternoon. How many processors? What sort of 'user access' policy do you intend to apply? What sort of feed do you have (it needs to be 24/365 w/ at least one dedicated IP and the ability to operate servers)? What sort of filesystem resources? Any Linux, BSD, MS, Mac, etc. machines included? We're in particular looking for another node to support IRC as well as act as a secondary subscription point for the H18 mailing list (we're going to use the distributed mailing list system like the Cypherpunks use). I assume of course that you have your wireless AP ready to go? Specs and policies please? What country/state/city are you in? What's your URL/homepage for the members list? Any particular special projects or interests that you'd like to share? The offer is open to any of the rest of you folks. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 01:46:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 01:46:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31502 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 01:46:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31498 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 01:46:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 01:46:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 06B5A19B19; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:46:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AC41E19B15 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:45:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19TOmF-0007e0-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:30:15 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Maksim Radziwill <7c00@wp.pl> Message-ID: Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: Subject: [9fans] Re: Is the Nvidia Tnt2 supported? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 16:29:09 GMT Apurva Mehta wrote in message news:... > The list of supported PC hardware is not clear as to whether Nvidia Tnt2 > chipset is supported. It lists the TNT, and the Geforce2 MX as supported. > In the NOT supported section it lists the Geforce and mentions the Tnt2 in > brackets with reference to a RviaFB driver on Linux. The wording is as > follows : > > "nVidia GeForce (In linux this works on the RivaFB driver, as is the TNT2, > apparently they are not similar enough)" > > So is the Tnt2 supported or not? If not is there a way to get it working > somehow? > > Thanks, > - Apurva At least for me it does work ;) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 02:07:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 02:07:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31754 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 02:07:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31750 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 02:07:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 02:07:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 34AD619B1E; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:07:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.64.20]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 220A319A72 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:06:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 11332 invoked by uid 65534); 20 Jun 2003 17:06:39 -0000 Received: from PPP-219.65.15.200.mum1.vsnl.net.in (EHLO home.woodlands) (219.65.15.200) by mail.gmx.net (mp001) with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 19:06:39 +0200 From: Apurva Mehta To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] panic exeption/interrupt 14 Message-Id: <20030620223344.35e55552.apurva@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: <8ea9c5d768be9f53188d42be51f2cce8@plan9.bell-labs.com> References: <20030620165529.41d26d59.apurva@gmx.net> <8ea9c5d768be9f53188d42be51f2cce8@plan9.bell-labs.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.1 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:33:44 +0530 On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:27:45 -0400 "Russ Cox" wrote: > > Thanks, I added the following lines to my plan9.ini file and I > > still get the"panic exception/interrupt 14" error. Here are the > > lines I added : > > > > *nousbprobe=1 > > *noetherprobe=1 > > > > I have done a floppy install and created a boot floppy. Even with > > the boot floppy I get the same error. > > That's weird. Try copying the 9load binary from > your install floppy onto your boot floppy, and see > if that fixes the problem. I tried that.. I still get the same error I also tried copying the 9load binary from the install disk to my plan9 boot partition. The result is sadly the same.. - Apurva From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 02:08:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 02:08:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31764 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 02:08:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31760 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 02:08:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 02:08:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0773319B20; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:08:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.64.20]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 452B719B20 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:07:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 7178 invoked by uid 65534); 20 Jun 2003 17:07:55 -0000 Received: from PPP-219.65.15.200.mum1.vsnl.net.in (EHLO home.woodlands) (219.65.15.200) by mail.gmx.net (mp005) with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 19:07:55 +0200 From: Apurva Mehta To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] panic exeption/interrupt 14 Message-Id: <20030620223551.0ed9b52e.apurva@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: <9c6a34ac3b58fefad07e6e8255f0f7bf@plan9.bell-labs.com> References: <20030620212802.172f89ba.apurva@gmx.net> <9c6a34ac3b58fefad07e6e8255f0f7bf@plan9.bell-labs.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.1 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:35:51 +0530 On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:11:40 -0400 "Russ Cox" wrote: > > I am no grub guru, where do I put '0x39'? > > You don't have to put it anywhere. > I was just telling you the partition type > because many fdisk variants don't know > about Plan 9 partitions. OK. When you said 'type 0x39' I thought you meant I had to type in 0x39 somewhere :) As an aside, the GRUB configuration I posted does not work. I get an 'Invalid device' error of some sort. - Apurva From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 02:12:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 02:12:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31820 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 02:12:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31816 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 02:12:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 02:12:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1C73819B22; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:12:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7016B19B23 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:11:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Jun 20 13:11:49 EDT 2003 Received: from 64.36.89.66 ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Fri Jun 20 13:11:47 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <7399a251bc2039aa85a1d6f4c4b3f103@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] panic exeption/interrupt 14 From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030620223551.0ed9b52e.apurva@gmx.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:11:42 -0400 > As an aside, the GRUB configuration I posted does not work. I get an > 'Invalid device' error of some sort. Richard Miller says that this works for him: > After setting up a 9fat partition with pbslba, > I just had to add this to the grub menu.lst file: > > title = brazil > root = (hd0,5) > chainloader = +1 It's really a shame that you've got so many 9load problems though. Can you send me the exact transcript you're getting when using the 9load from the install floppy? Thanks. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 02:14:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 02:14:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31904 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 02:14:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31900 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 02:14:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 02:14:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A5E3D19B21; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:14:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D82F619AD6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:13:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5KHDleH002940 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:13:47 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5KHDkZM002936 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:13:47 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] panic exeption/interrupt 14 In-Reply-To: <20030620223551.0ed9b52e.apurva@gmx.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:13:46 -0600 (MDT) On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Apurva Mehta wrote: > As an aside, the GRUB configuration I posted does not work. I get an > 'Invalid device' error of some sort. > here's my partition information: root@localhost# fdisk -l /dev/hda Disk /dev/hda: 240 heads, 63 sectors, 5168 cylinders Units = cylinders of 15120 * 512 bytes Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/hda1 * 1 4877 36870088+ 83 Linux /dev/hda2 4878 4932 415800 82 Linux swap /dev/hda3 * 4933 5168 1784160 39 Plan 9 root@localhost# and the GRUB configuration that works with it: ----- #boot=/dev/hda default=0 timeout=10 splashimage=(hd0,0)/boot/grub/splash.xpm.gz title Red Hat Linux (2.4.20-13.8) root (hd0,0) kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.4.20-13.8 ro root=LABEL=/ initrd /boot/initrd-2.4.20-13.8.img title Plan 9 map (hd0,0) (hd0,2) map (hd0,2) (hd0,0) rootnoverify (hd0,2) chainloader +1 ----- the 'map' entries for 'Plan 9' i just stole from a howto on how to boot win95 with grub... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 02:15:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 02:15:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31913 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 02:15:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31909 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 02:15:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 02:15:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2F08519B24; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:15:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6FD1A19B1A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:14:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h5KH6Knp007865; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 19:06:21 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h5KH6JaI007864; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 19:06:19 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: hangar18-general@open-forge.org, hell@einstein.ssz.com Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license Message-ID: <20030620190617.B2250@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, hangar18-general@open-forge.org, hell@einstein.ssz.com References: <20030620161513.Z2250@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from Jim Choate on Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 11:44:09AM -0500 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 19:06:18 +0200 On Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 11:44:09AM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > > Why is Lucent an easy target if their license is strong in the warranty > and expectations department backed up by law? > Because litigation does not have to have its foundations in "right". Your very approach to this mailing list is an example of the type of behaviour Lucent is understandably concerned with. > Lucent is motivated by basic self preservation, unfortunately they find > themselves (like many business) stuck at the fork in the road. Unsure of > which branch to take. The failure of modern relativism/pragmatism, no > underlying principles deeper than 'it works'. > You forget that Lucent don't have to give anything away. It is left to the Plan 9 community (in a large sense) to justify a trust that has, as you point out, never been tested. > That branch is a opportunity for new enterprises and efforts. > But it still does not provide Lucent with the incentive to give up something and risk being nailed to the cross in return. That bit of generosity has long gone out of fashion, if it ever was in fashion. > When would you like to connect your cluster to the H18 cluster? Rob and I > happen to be doing a rebuild this afternoon. How many processors? What > sort of 'user access' policy do you intend to apply? What sort of feed do > you have (it needs to be 24/365 w/ at least one dedicated IP and the > ability to operate servers)? What sort of filesystem resources? Any Linux, > BSD, MS, Mac, etc. machines included? > I'm at the far end of a 9600 bps conneciton to the Internet, with NAT and packet filtering in five directions at our firewall. All this at the discretion and thanks to the generosity of my main client. Are you still interested in my 8-node network? > We're in particular looking for another node to support IRC as well as act > as a secondary subscription point for the H18 mailing list (we're going to > use the distributed mailing list system like the Cypherpunks use). > Because I certainly am not :-) > I assume of course that you have your wireless AP ready to go? Specs and > policies please? What country/state/city are you in? What's your > URL/homepage for the members list? > From South Africa? Moonbounce, perhaps? > Any particular special projects or interests that you'd like to share? > Yes, combining CVS and Fossil into something both the Plan 9 "dump" users and my benefactors in the NetBSD camp can make use of. > The offer is open to any of the rest of you folks. > Pity you have such a narrow conception of the reality beyond the walls of your hangar. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 02:28:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 02:28:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32025 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 02:28:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32021 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 02:28:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 02:28:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D3E619B1A; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:28:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from minster.cs.york.ac.uk (minster.cs.york.ac.uk [144.32.40.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C065E19A72 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:27:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pc118 ([144.32.41.119] helo=pc118.cs.york.ac.uk ident=1530) by minster.cs.york.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 19TPdE-0002Es-00; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 18:25:00 +0100 Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license From: John Murdie To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: john@cs.york.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <20030620103102.A1097@sigint.cs.purdue.edu> References: <1056097208.28648.170.camel@pc118> <20030620103102.A1097@sigint.cs.purdue.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Message-Id: <1056129899.28648.279.camel@pc118> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanner: exiscan *19TPdE-0002Es-00*WVatWDf8k1M* Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 20 Jun 2003 18:24:59 +0100 On Fri, 2003-06-20 at 16:31, splite@purdue.edu wrote: > On Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 09:20:08AM +0100, John Murdie wrote: > > > > For a start, lpr (more properly the RFC1179 Berkeley print) protocol > > allows only a success/fail result; there's nowhere to put error or > > informational messages in the protocol. > > Sure there is; the return value is an octet. They had 255 possible failure > codes, but the BSD implementation returns 001 on error regardless of the > cause. They could have at least distinguished transient (e.g. no spool > space) versus permanent (no such queue) errors. Thank you for being more precise about this than I was! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 02:47:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 02:47:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32204 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 02:47:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32200 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 02:47:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 02:47:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5BD9C19B26; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:47:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A0CCE19A72 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:46:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h5KHsA803241; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:54:10 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: , Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license In-Reply-To: <20030620190617.B2250@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:54:10 -0500 (CDT) On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Lucio De Re wrote: > On Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 11:44:09AM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > > > > Why is Lucent an easy target if their license is strong in the warranty > > and expectations department backed up by law? > > > Because litigation does not have to have its foundations in "right". ??? It's basic contract law, and any contract grants the participants rights as well as obligations. > You forget that Lucent don't have to give anything away. I -never- forget that. > It is left to the Plan 9 community (in a large sense) to justify a trust > that has, as you point out, never been tested. ??? I have -no- responsibility to justify anything, especially any sort of 'trust'. I have a contract with Lucent that is instantiated through the license. Nothing more, nothing less. If Lucent wants something from me outside of the license, they should have put it in the license. The question from Lucent, any business, is 'what's in it for me?'. Ask yourself this (I don't care to hear your answers thank you very much); If Lucent had kept Plan 9 closed source how would it have (probably/likely) grown? What we see from Lucent is typical corporate psychology. They're afraid to let one iota more go than necessary to make a profit. It's hard to take any argument or claim based on 'justify a trust' when the only issue at hand is profit. Get real. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 02:48:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 02:48:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32215 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 02:48:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32211 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 02:48:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 02:48:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 949A019A72; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:48:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5FD5F19B07 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:47:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h5KHdcnp007934 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 19:39:38 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h5KHdbrw007933 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 19:39:37 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Fossil or something else altogether? Message-ID: <20030620193936.C2250@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from David Presotto on Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 12:15:25PM -0400 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 19:39:36 +0200 On Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 12:15:25PM -0400, David Presotto wrote: > Lines: 58 > > mk clean and remove the .a No, it won't complete a rebuild of libsec.a. Acid reveals: acid: lstk() main(argc=0x33,argv=0x7fffed14)+0x57 /sys/src/cmd/ar.c:171 cp=0x0 _main+0x31 /sys/src/libc/386/main9.s:16 acid: which is absurd (but probably true) because in the source that is the exits("error") command as a result of an invalid command line option. I think I have my filesystems mixed up too much (hence the subject) with the nett result that the kernel is out of sync with the executables. I'll dig a little deeper... ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 02:53:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 02:53:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32278 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 02:53:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32274 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 02:53:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 02:53:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 366FF19B10; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:53:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.64.20]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3737919B07 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:52:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 7561 invoked by uid 65534); 20 Jun 2003 17:52:12 -0000 Received: from PPP-219.65.16.55.mum1.vsnl.net.in (EHLO home.woodlands) (219.65.16.55) by mail.gmx.net (mp009) with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 19:52:12 +0200 From: Apurva Mehta To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] panic exeption/interrupt 14 Message-Id: <20030620232026.33359f25.apurva@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: <7399a251bc2039aa85a1d6f4c4b3f103@plan9.bell-labs.com> References: <20030620223551.0ed9b52e.apurva@gmx.net> <7399a251bc2039aa85a1d6f4c4b3f103@plan9.bell-labs.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.1 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 23:20:26 +0530 On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:11:42 -0400 "Russ Cox" wrote: > It's really a shame that you've got so many > 9load problems though. Can you send me > the exact transcript you're getting when using > the 9load from the install floppy? Here is are the messages I get in their entirety... ----- PBS... Plan 9 from Bell Labs ELCR: 0C20 apm ax=f000 cx-f000 di-1200 ebx=576c esi=C03e4 dev A0 port 1F0 config 045A capabilities 0F00 wdma 0007 udma 103F dev B0 port 1F0 config 045A capabilities 0F00 mwdma 0007 udma 0407 dev A0 port 170 config 85C0 capabilities 0F00 mwdma 0407 dev B0 port 170 config 85C0 capabilities 0B00 wdma 0007 udma 0407 FLAGS=10246 TRAP=e ECODE=2 DC=8002a7a4 AX 00000000 BX 00000000 CX 001f4f1b DX 00000000 SI 0001e5fb D1 81000000 BP 0bb1f04 CS 0010 DS 0008 ES 0008 FS 0008 GS 0008 CR0 80000011 CR2 81000000 CR3 0000C000 panic: exception/interrupt 14 Press almost any key to reset... ----- Since I have copied this message on paper and then typed it in, there can be mistakes ( although I have double checked). So if you have a doubt, please clarify it.. Thanks, - Apurva From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 02:53:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 02:53:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32285 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 02:53:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32281 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 02:53:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 02:53:38 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1BA9519B2F; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:53:25 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.64.20]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0552719B10 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:52:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 15769 invoked by uid 65534); 20 Jun 2003 17:52:21 -0000 Received: from PPP-219.65.16.55.mum1.vsnl.net.in (EHLO home.woodlands) (219.65.16.55) by mail.gmx.net (mp013) with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 19:52:21 +0200 From: Apurva Mehta To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] panic exeption/interrupt 14 Message-Id: <20030620232117.47870ca5.apurva@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: References: <20030620223551.0ed9b52e.apurva@gmx.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.1 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 23:21:17 +0530 On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:13:46 -0600 (MDT) andrey mirtchovski wrote: > and the GRUB configuration that works with it: > > ----- > #boot=/dev/hda > default=0 > timeout=10 > splashimage=(hd0,0)/boot/grub/splash.xpm.gz > title Red Hat Linux (2.4.20-13.8) > root (hd0,0) > kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.4.20-13.8 ro root=LABEL=/ > initrd /boot/initrd-2.4.20-13.8.img > title Plan 9 > map (hd0,0) (hd0,2) > map (hd0,2) (hd0,0) > rootnoverify (hd0,2) > chainloader +1 > ----- > > > the 'map' entries for 'Plan 9' i just stole from a howto on how to > boot win95 with grub... > That works (atleast it gives the same result as when I boot from the floppy).. Thanks.. - Apurva From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 03:40:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 03:40:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32720 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 03:40:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32716 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 03:40:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 03:40:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 35A8519B2A; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 14:40:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mx01.netapp.com (mx01.netapp.com [198.95.226.53]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 50E9119B23 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 14:39:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frejya.corp.netapp.com (frejya [10.10.20.91]) by mx01.netapp.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/NTAP-1.4) with ESMTP id h5KId2Jo020967 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:39:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from place.org ([192.168.76.233]) by frejya.corp.netapp.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/NTAP-1.5) with ESMTP id h5KId1tf027835 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:39:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3EF354C4.9020205@place.org> From: Stephen Wynne User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:39:00 -0700 Jim Choate wrote: > What we see from Lucent is typical corporate psychology. They're afraid to > let one iota more go than necessary to make a profit. It's hard to take > any argument or claim based on 'justify a trust' when the only issue at > hand is profit. I'd like to dispute the idea that trust is always absent from corporate relationships with the wider world, both in terms of civic and professional circles. I can't speak for Lucent, since I know little about its corporate culture, but suffice it to say that companies have complex motivations when it comes to their relationships to the wider world. Civic, professional, and global community environments exist in which companies must survive. They require willing professionals who can demonstrate commitment and loyalty during their terms of employment. Companies require supportive local communities for things such as roads, electricity, and fire protection for their grounds. And they also need a sense of public recognition from customers and competitors. I could go on about company community obligations, but to say that corporations only think about the immediate profits they can gain is simplistic. Of course they usually think about profits above other considerations. But all the companies I've known have had strong contingents of volunteerism, as well as charity activities among the employees, often encouraged by upper management. And each has contributed to a wider group of professionals, customers, and competitors through open source offerings, conference participation, and technical education grants. In part because companies are comprised of many individuals, each company has an opportunity to demonstrate some degree of altruism. Moreover, any perceived generosity on the part of a company can be seen as positive public relations. A good veteran marketeer will tell you that the best publicity isn't for sale. Open source gifts to the wider world offer a variety of ways for companies to demonstrate altruism and gain kudos from customers and competitors in often unmeasurable ways. An open source offering can also help to secure market share for a product that depends on the open source package. With its Plan 9 license, Lucent is doing the work of a for-profit corporation as well as demonstrating its membership in a larger community of competitors that all seek to further the state of the art through cooperation. And one could even call that selfish, because at some point in an organization's growth, market and innovative influence is critical for a company's future success. Every corporation I've ever joined was more than the sum of its parts. From executives down to hourly employees, people with whom I've worked have had their own interests in engaging with their communities, whether it were volunteering, charity donations, or technical mentoring and even open source donations. I think it's very negative to say that trust wasn't a part of these relationships, or that trust wasn't a part of their companies' relationships with their communities. There has been a lot of trust, and when the taxes are paid and the money has been spent, looking back on trust is a great experience. And in this day of fluctuating stock prices, technical employees and their organizations might be more interested in community than ever. The glass is either half empty, or half full, depending on how you see it. I prefer to see it as somewhat almost full, and able to satisfy most of the thirst. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 04:23:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 04:23:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 789 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 04:23:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 785 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 04:23:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 04:23:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 47A5E19B2B; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 15:23:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 51ED319B2B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 15:22:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <11085765386d7572968a06a2ee05f689@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 15:22:05 -0400 > What we see from Lucent is typical corporate psychology. They're afraid to > let one iota more go than necessary to make a profit. It's hard to take > any argument or claim based on 'justify a trust' when the only issue at > hand is profit. We apologize for letting the code out with a license that obligates the receiver in any way. I promise that with comments like this its not likely ever to happen again. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 04:39:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 04:39:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 997 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 04:39:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 993 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 04:39:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 04:39:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A8AE19B2C; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 15:39:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3335019B07 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 15:38:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with SMTP id h5KJcR58012588 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:38:27 -0600 Received: (qmail 30393 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 13:38:27 -0600 Received: from unknown (HELO georgie.ccs.lanl.gov) (128.165.148.135) by 128.165.148.1 with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 13:38:27 -0600 Received: (qmail 27477 invoked by uid 2353); 20 Jun 2003 13:38:27 -0600 Message-ID: <20030620193827.27476.qmail@georgie.ccs.lanl.gov> From: nehal@ccs.lanl.gov Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: <11085765386d7572968a06a2ee05f689@plan9.bell-labs.com> from "David Presotto" at Jun 20, 2003 03:22:05 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:38:27 -0600 (MDT) damn your companies for wanting to make a profit. and damn you guys for wanting to get paid with corporate blood money. and damn your mortgages. and damn your insurance. nehal > > > What we see from Lucent is typical corporate psychology. They're afraid to > > let one iota more go than necessary to make a profit. It's hard to take > > any argument or claim based on 'justify a trust' when the only issue at > > hand is profit. > > We apologize for letting the code out with a license that obligates > the receiver in any way. I promise that with comments like this its > not likely ever to happen again. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 04:39:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 04:39:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1004 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 04:39:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1000 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 04:39:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 04:39:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7459619B30; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 15:39:23 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 387A619AD6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 15:38:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h5KJcT58012599 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:38:29 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h5KJcT9P016945 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:38:29 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license In-Reply-To: <11085765386d7572968a06a2ee05f689@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:38:28 -0600 (MDT) On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, David Presotto wrote: > We apologize for letting the code out with a license that obligates > the receiver in any way. I promise that with comments like this its > not likely ever to happen again. well from out here we are very grateful, for what that is worth. I think Plan 9 has a big role in our future work, this new license is the ticket for me. I regret not buying all the Lucent guys at Usenix a beer last week. I'm wondering: how many of the folks who hate this license run PowerPoint? If you do, you're already far more obligated than by this license. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 04:49:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 04:49:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1068 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 04:49:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1064 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 04:49:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 04:49:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 554C519B32; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 15:49:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 019D0199EC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 15:48:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sdn-ap-024castocp0360.dialsprint.net ([65.178.113.106] helo=acm.org) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19TRra-00070R-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:47:59 -0700 Message-ID: <3EF37336.4050205@acm.org> From: "D. Brownlee" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; NetBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030618 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license References: <11085765386d7572968a06a2ee05f689@plan9.bell-labs.com> In-Reply-To: <11085765386d7572968a06a2ee05f689@plan9.bell-labs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 20:48:54 +0000 David Presotto wrote: > We apologize for letting the code out with a license that obligates > the receiver in any way. I promise that with comments like this its > not likely ever to happen again. > I think that a lot of people lived with the old license. The new linense seems to be more liberal. I, for one, am not complaining about the license. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 04:53:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 04:53:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1137 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 04:53:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1133 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 04:53:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 04:53:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3276319B29; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 15:53:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4EBEE19A6F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 15:53:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5KIvNBc022172 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 14:57:23 -0400 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 14:57:23 -0400 (EDT) > > well from out here we are very grateful, for what that is worth. > Hear, hear. Given that Lucent spent several years of R&D money so our well-respected scientists could develop this technology I find the current license quite acceptable. It may not go so far as to please the zero-software-ownership religious zealots, but it certainly makes the software usable, extendible, and even distributable for many. Thanks to Presotto, et al for spending the effort to see this accomplished. Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 04:59:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 04:59:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1224 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 04:59:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1220 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 04:59:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 04:59:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 46C6A19B38; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 15:59:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E0D3E19B35 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 15:58:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 3429 invoked by uid 991); 20 Jun 2003 19:58:36 -0000 Message-ID: <20030620195836.3428.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license In-Reply-To: Message from ron minnich of "Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:38:28 MDT." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 15:58:36 -0400 Ron writes: > well from out here we are very grateful, for what that is worth. Hear hear! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 05:04:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 05:04:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1355 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 05:04:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1351 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 05:04:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 05:04:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1013F19B36; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 16:04:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from shadowfax.ara.com (unknown [63.99.12.131]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0716E19B33 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 16:03:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mclpc.ara.com (twds1.swd.ara.com [63.99.14.76]) by shadowfax.ara.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h5KK3Q1B016821 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 14:03:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mluke@ara.com) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030620135754.00b85368@wanmail.ara.com> X-Sender: mluke@wanmail.ara.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Marques C Luke Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-339F6D9D; boundary="=====================_4436328==_" X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-100.0 required=9.0 tests=USER_IN_WHITELIST version=2.54-ara007 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.54-ara007 (1.174.2.17-2003-05-11-exp) Subject: [9fans] Plan 9 install on notebook no-go Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 14:03:25 -0600 --=====================_4436328==_ Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-339F6D9D; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'm new to this and need a bit of help, I am trying to install Plan9 onto my notebook which doesn't have a CDROM drive. The install starts to go well until it doesn't recognize my PC NIC . I have no other way of transferring the necessary files over to my notebook other than over the net. Here is a quick breakdown of my hardware list: Intel 82371AB Disk, TI PCI-1250 Cardbus controller, 3Com Etherlink III PCMCIA 3C589D, Neomagic MagicGraph vid, all on a HP OmniBook 2100. I have attached a copy of my Plan9 config file. If any of you can help with this issue please let me know. Thank you, Marques C Luke --=====================_4436328==_ Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-339F6D9D; name=PLAN9.INI; x-mac-type=42494E41; x-mac-creator=74747874 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="PLAN9.INI" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Km5vbXA9MQ0KZGlzdG5hbWU9cGxhbjkNCnBhcnRpdGlvbj1uZXcNCm5vYm9vdHByb21wdD1sb2Nh bCEvYnpyb290CiNjb25zb2xlPTAKbW9uaXRvcj1tdWx0aXN5bmM3NQ0Kdmdhc2l6ZT02NDB4NDgw eDgNCm1vdXNlcG9ydD1wczINCmJvb3RmaWxlPWZkMCFkb3MhOXBjZmxvcC5neg0KaW5zdGFsbHVy bD1FXHBsYW4uaXNvDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAKICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgIAogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAKICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIAo= --=====================_4436328==_ Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-339F6D9D; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --=====================_4436328==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-339F6D9D Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. 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Version: 6.0.490 / Virus Database: 289 - Release Date: 6/16/2003 --=====================_4436328==_-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 05:13:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 05:13:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1514 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 05:13:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1510 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 05:13:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 05:13:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 73EFA19B31; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 16:13:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ophiopogon.tommyk.com (unknown [204.60.70.245]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B04E619B33 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 16:12:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tommyk.com (bofh.tommyk.com [204.60.70.253]) by ophiopogon.tommyk.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h5KKC577004594 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 16:12:05 -0400 Message-ID: <3EF36A9D.9040001@tommyk.com> From: Jason Gurtz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4b) Gecko/20030515 Thunderbird/0.1a X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license References: <11085765386d7572968a06a2ee05f689@plan9.bell-labs.com> In-Reply-To: <11085765386d7572968a06a2ee05f689@plan9.bell-labs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.33 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: jason@tommyk.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 16:12:13 -0400 David Presotto wrote: > We apologize for letting the code out with a license that obligates > the receiver in any way. I promise that with comments like this its > not likely ever to happen again. Here's from another greatful person... Sorry you have to put up with this stuff. ~Jason -- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 05:23:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 05:23:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1683 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 05:23:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1679 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 05:23:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 05:23:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 683A719B3B; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 16:23:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BBD2B19B2E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 16:22:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h5KKUU105374 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 15:30:30 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <3EF354C4.9020205@place.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 15:30:30 -0500 (CDT) On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Stephen Wynne wrote: > Jim Choate wrote: > > > What we see from Lucent is typical corporate psychology. They're afraid to > > let one iota more go than necessary to make a profit. It's hard to take > > any argument or claim based on 'justify a trust' when the only issue at > > hand is profit. > > I'd like to dispute the idea that trust is always absent from > corporate relationships with the wider world, both in terms of civic > and professional circles. There are two types of 'trust', a obligation of performance as compared to a belief in future behavior. You are comparing apples and oranges. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 05:39:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 05:39:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1948 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 05:39:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1944 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 05:39:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 05:39:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2AA7D19B3D; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 16:39:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7046C19B37 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 16:38:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h5KKkLG05598; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 15:46:22 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: , In-Reply-To: <11085765386d7572968a06a2ee05f689@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 15:46:21 -0500 (CDT) On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, David Presotto wrote: > > What we see from Lucent is typical corporate psychology. They're afraid to > > let one iota more go than necessary to make a profit. It's hard to take > > any argument or claim based on 'justify a trust' when the only issue at > > hand is profit. > > We apologize for letting the code out with a license that obligates > the receiver in any way. I promise that with comments like this its > not likely ever to happen again. Feeling a tad monopolar today are we... First, the claim is that as a user of Plan 9 I have a 'trust' outside of the license that I am -obliged- to fill. Malarky. The relationship between Lucent and a user of Plan 9 is that of parties in a contract. The only issue at hand is the contract itself and whether either/both parties feel the contract has been fulfilled. Why can't Lucent just release Plan 9 under a GPL? Because they fear loss of a value. This is natural, neither good or bad in and of itself. There is a parallel issue of liability and warranty. They believe they are acting in -their- own best interests. That is -not- synonymous or otherwise equatable to the best interests of the users. And neither one of those are synonymous with the best interest of the market they are components of. On one hand they understand the potential, Plan 9 itself stands an example. On the other they are faced with the reservation of the unknown. The license is the cannon of their 'best guess' at their 'best interest'. Good or bad, that must speak for itself. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 05:43:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 05:43:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1989 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 05:43:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1985 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 05:43:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 05:43:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 47FFC19B42; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 16:43:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 780E819B39 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 16:42:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h5KKoTO05667; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 15:50:29 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: , In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 15:50:29 -0500 (CDT) On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Sam wrote: > Hear, hear. Given that Lucent spent several years of > R&D money so our well-respected scientists could develop > this technology I find the current license quite acceptable. 'acceptable' is not 'needs no improvement. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 06:12:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 06:12:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2333 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 06:12:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2329 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 06:12:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 06:12:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA13A19A6F; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:12:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 500D619AD6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:11:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Jun 20 17:11:08 EDT 2003 Received: from 64.36.89.66 ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Fri Jun 20 17:11:05 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <21a55d642f78f53fb753f9a156a18846@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] life's too short Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:11:04 -0400 Public service announcement: g% pull mail/lib/pipeto.lib g% cat >$mail/pipeto <; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 18:22:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bsd.jcs.local (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bsd.jcs.local (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h5KMM8Bp011452 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 18:22:08 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jsnader@ix.netcom.com) Received: (from jcs@localhost) by bsd.jcs.local (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h5KMM8Pl011451 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 18:22:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: bsd.jcs.local: jcs set sender to jsnader@ix.netcom.com using -f From: Jon Snader To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license Message-ID: <20030620222208.GA11425@ix.netcom.com> Mail-Followup-To: Jon Snader , 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <11085765386d7572968a06a2ee05f689@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 18:22:08 -0400 On Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 03:46:21PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > > Feeling a tad monopolar today are we... > Oh for goodness sake, enough already. Lucent and the folks at the Labs have given us a remarkable gift, asking only that we let this good deed go unpunished. All you seem able to do to show your gratitude is complain about the color of the ribbon. Didn't your mother teach you anything about being gracious? jcs From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 08:46:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 08:46:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4010 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 08:46:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4006 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 08:46:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 08:46:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 54AA819B25; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 19:46:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.srv.cquest.utoronto.ca (mail.srv.cquest.utoronto.ca [192.82.128.11]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 23CBF199ED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 19:45:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.srv.cquest.utoronto.ca id <97183>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 19:45:12 -0500 Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license From: Tom Glinos To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: <20030620222208.GA11425@ix.netcom.com> from "Jon Snader" at Jun 20, 2003 06:22:08 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <03Jun20.194512edt.97183@mail.srv.cquest.utoronto.ca> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 19:45:09 -0500 >Oh for goodness sake, enough already. Lucent and the folks at the >Labs have given us a remarkable gift, asking only that we let this >good deed go unpunished. All you seem able to do to show your >gratitude is complain about the color of the ribbon. Didn't your >mother teach you anything about being gracious? Hear Hear! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 08:48:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 08:48:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4046 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 08:48:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4042 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 08:48:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 08:48:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1620919B2E; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 19:48:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail1.panix.com (mail1.panix.com [166.84.1.72]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 23E5B19B3C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 19:47:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from panix.com (h-68-166-195-154.NYCMNY83.covad.net [68.166.195.154]) by mail1.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9266148B5D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 19:47:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3EF39CC6.3040504@panix.com> From: Steve Arons User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20021003 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 19:46:14 -0400 Is there anyone on this list who has read the papers and studied the sources and learned nothing? If you have learned something from the ideas and design, why not say thank you to the people who did the work and fought to make it available? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 11:29:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 11:29:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8697 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 11:29:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8693 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 11:29:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 11:29:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4EE1619B2D; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:29:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from shake.cse.psu.edu (shake.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.7]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8E18619B33 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:28:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by shake.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server (Backup MX)) with ESMTP id 9EB6E1896 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 20:21:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Jun 20 20:20:48 EDT 2003 Received: from 64.36.89.66 ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Fri Jun 20 20:20:45 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <50bd430c3a9e7c79665816da4ee11437@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, rgr@sdf.lonestar.org Subject: Re: [9fans] Does the Siemens SS1024 wireless PCI card work ? From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <87smqlfiyl.fsf@rgristroph-austin.ath.cx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 20:20:45 -0400 > http://www.speedstream.com/support/1024main.html > Is there any chance this card will work with Plan 9 ? It may not will work right out of the box, but once you add the PCI IDs, there's a good chance. The Linux pages claim the Thinkpad T23 uses the Prism2 driver, and the Plan 9 driver supports that card (the one in the Thinkpad T23) out of the box. It's possible they use the same PCI ID. You could figure it out by looking at the Linux driver, I suppose. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 11:29:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 11:29:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8712 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 11:29:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8708 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 11:29:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 11:29:44 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9C8A219B3E; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:29:25 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from shake.cse.psu.edu (shake.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.7]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D22FD19B3F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:28:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.188]) by shake.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server (Backup MX)) with SMTP id 7146A189D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 20:31:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-12-167.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.12.167 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 00:15:20 -0000 Message-ID: <3EF3B1DE.2080800@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license References: <3EF39CC6.3040504@panix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 20:16:14 -0500 > Is there anyone on this list who has read the papers and studied the > sources and learned nothing? > > If you have learned something from the ideas and design, why not say > thank you to the people who did the work and fought to make it available? :-D Thanks, y'all! Don http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 11:45:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 11:45:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9087 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 11:45:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9083 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 11:45:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 11:45:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CD03219B43; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:45:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from shake.cse.psu.edu (shake.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.7]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C2BCC19B3F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:44:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by shake.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server (Backup MX)) with ESMTP id 2EA6C18A1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 20:33:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Jun 20 20:33:06 EDT 2003 Received: from 64.36.89.66 ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Fri Jun 20 20:33:04 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <9d0b588aed587dcb13741f2925459996@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] problem with upas/fs and echo open >/mail/fs/ctl From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <%p%Ea.12506$m_2.89463013@news-text.cableinet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 20:33:01 -0400 > I thought I'd ask here before trawling into code (my first foray), > whether this was expected behaviour or not? I'll have a dig around the > sources when I find a bit of spare time. It's not expected behavior. It is a subtle bug though. If you're in the mood for a bug hunt, it's a fun one. It's fixed on sources. A new binary should appear tonight. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 11:45:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 11:45:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9098 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 11:45:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9094 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 11:45:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 11:45:41 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0F83219B45; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:45:25 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from shake.cse.psu.edu (shake.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.7]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 28FB519B43 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:44:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by shake.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server (Backup MX)) with ESMTP id F301D18AE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 20:43:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Jun 20 20:43:03 EDT 2003 Received: from 64.36.89.66 ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Fri Jun 20 20:43:00 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <2ab2d08e563932aa7050d00b0d275a95@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, mluke@ara.com Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 install on notebook no-go From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030620135754.00b85368@wanmail.ara.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 20:42:58 -0400 You may need to set your ethernet card's IRQ explicitly. It's been a while, but I seem to recall that the default didn't work well on some systems (in particular, mine). I used (the system died years ago) ether0=type=3C589 irq=11 media=10BaseT in plan9.ini. Watch during bootup for a line beginning with "#l0:". If that doesn't work, try adding pccard0=disabled in plan9.ini to fall back to the old PCMCIA only driver (by default we use the PCCARD+PCMCIA driver; maybe it has a bug when dealing with your hardware). During bootup, you should get a "#Y0:" line with the PCCARD driver and a "#y0:" line with the PCMCIA driver. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 11:47:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 11:47:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9143 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 11:47:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9139 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 11:47:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 11:47:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 654E219B37; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:47:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from edoras.nas.com (edoras.nas.com [206.63.100.8]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F7EF19A33 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:46:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nas.com (max2-d95.nas.com [206.63.102.224]) by edoras.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AB36EB560 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 19:46:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3EF3CDF6.1080203@nas.com> From: Jack Johnson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4b) Gecko/20030416 Thunderbird/0.1a X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license References: <3EF39CC6.3040504@panix.com> In-Reply-To: <3EF39CC6.3040504@panix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 20:16:06 -0700 Steve Arons wrote: > Is there anyone on this list who has read the papers and studied the > sources and learned nothing? I'm thick. -J From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 13:49:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 13:49:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12653 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 13:49:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12649 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 13:49:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 13:49:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 56D6E19B4A; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 00:49:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3B04219B35 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 00:48:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5L4mgeH003519 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:48:42 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5L4mcaD003515 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:48:42 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] another offtopic link Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:48:38 -0600 (MDT) who's selling those t'shirts? i'd like to know whether my money is going to a good cause: http://www.cafeshops.com/plan9gear/ have they signed the license? paid royalties? would they mind putting this on t-shirts too: http://www.acl.lanl.gov/plan9/images/glendatux.jpg curious in canada. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 14:06:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 14:06:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12879 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 14:06:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12874 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 14:06:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 14:06:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 01B3019A2D; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 01:06:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2A62419B47 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 01:05:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA28199 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 01:05:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5L55C714765 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 01:05:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306210505.h5L55C714765@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] another offtopic link In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:48:38 MDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 01:05:12 -0400 > who's selling those t'shirts? i'd like to know whether my money is going to > a good cause: > > http://www.cafeshops.com/plan9gear/ > > have they signed the license? paid royalties? I don't know, but I'm glad to see that the ``Plan 9 classic thong'' is only US$8.29. Surely the royalties on that would mint someone a small fortune. If nothing else, it'd be a great thing to hang on the Unix room wall. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 14:17:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 14:17:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13014 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 14:17:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13010 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 14:17:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 14:17:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0787119A69; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 01:17:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 97E4719A69 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 01:16:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 683945 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 00:22:06 -0500 Message-ID: <0b3a059ec18ed2faf9b68072962384ea@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] another offtopic link From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <200306210505.h5L55C714765@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:15:24 -0700 hey, the text on the page with the glenda images explicitly requests that you send us (well, them now) a copy of anything you make using them, for the collection. and the lab guys didn't set this up because the prose at the top of the page talks too much about unix and doesn't know the difference between seamless and seemly. yet this is the first i've heard of this. it's weird. still, the classic thong and baby's bib make a great outfit. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 14:41:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 14:41:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13383 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 14:41:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13379 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 14:41:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 14:41:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A938C19B50; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 01:41:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EAB9219A5E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 01:40:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5L5dweH003548 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 23:39:58 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5L5dww9003544 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 23:39:58 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] another offtopic link In-Reply-To: <0b3a059ec18ed2faf9b68072962384ea@mightycheese.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 23:39:58 -0600 (MDT) Their IP page is here: http://www.cafepress.com/cp/info/help/iprights.aspx "Our Intellectual Property Rights Agent is Abdul Popal, who may reached by mail, email, telephone or fax as follows" and so on... On the other hand the glenda page (http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9dist/glenda.html) states: Feel free to use these images to make t-shirts and other paraphernalia, but if you do a production run, please send us a sample for our collection. Now, since I'm a Contributor (or I will be once the new license is out and I've written anything worth putting in the distribution) I should be eligible for a small piece of this "sample". If no t-shirts are available I could make do with a pair of size XL panties, since the thong appears to be spoken for. andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 14:49:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 14:49:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13528 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 14:49:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13524 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 14:49:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 14:49:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4C06919B51; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 01:49:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4316F19B35 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 01:48:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sat Jun 21 01:48:24 EDT 2003 Received: from 64.36.89.66 ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Sat Jun 21 01:48:21 EDT 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] another offtopic link From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 01:48:19 -0400 > "Our Intellectual Property Rights Agent is Abdul Popal, who may reached by > mail, email, telephone or fax as follows" and so on... You're taking this too seriously. There's no problem with the page or whoever set it up. The line on the glenda page is a request, not a demand, and you could argue that using cafepress.com is not really a production run anyway -- none of the stuff on that page exists until you order it. > eligible for a small piece of this "sample". If no t-shirts are available I > could make do with a pair of size XL panties, since the thong appears to be > spoken for. Then again, maybe you're not. ☺ Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 14:58:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 14:58:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13671 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 14:58:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13667 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 14:58:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 14:58:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 41C4A19B53; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 01:58:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 87CC219B46 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 01:57:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5L5vOeH003565 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 23:57:24 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5L5vOsE003561 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 23:57:24 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] another offtopic link In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 23:57:24 -0600 (MDT) On Sat, 21 Jun 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > You're taking this too seriously. > we ought to prepare for every possibility! one of these t-shirts (or a thong even, the horror!) may end up in north korea! as a possible future contributor i need to make sure i'm indemnified against this. :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 15:33:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 15:33:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14188 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 15:33:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14184 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 15:33:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 15:33:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 67D3319B58; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 02:33:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A810019A5E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 02:32:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA07899 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 02:32:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5L6Wt715317 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 02:32:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306210632.h5L6Wt715317@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] another offtopic link In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:15:24 PDT." <0b3a059ec18ed2faf9b68072962384ea@mightycheese.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 02:32:55 -0400 rob wrote: > still, the classic thong and baby's bib make a great outfit. I trust you'll send a picture to the list once you try them on? - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 15:35:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 15:35:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14205 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 15:35:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14201 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 15:35:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 15:35:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2529119B5A; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 02:35:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8F39119A5E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 02:34:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA08084 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 02:34:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5L6YW715341 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 02:34:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306210634.h5L6YW715341@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] another offtopic link In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 20 Jun 2003 23:39:58 MDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 02:34:31 -0400 > If no t-shirts are available I could make do with a pair of > size XL panties, since the thong appears to be spoken for. Uh huh. Andrey, a bit of advice: there are some things it's best not to advertise in public.... - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 16:44:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 16:44:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15212 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 16:44:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15208 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 16:44:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 16:44:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E359619B41; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 03:44:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from unix127.hosting-network.com (unknown [66.186.208.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 5E5E419B41 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 03:43:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 63006 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 07:45:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cc77109e) (203.51.74.192) by 66.186.208.13 with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 07:45:00 -0000 X-Comments: BlackMail headers - Mail to abuse@featureprice.com to report spam. X-Authenticated-Connect: 203.51.74.192 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 03:45:00(EDT) on June 21, 2003 X-HELO-From: cc77109e X-Mail-From: X-Sender-IP-Address: 203.51.74.192 Message-ID: <002a01c337c9$396154a0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200306210634.h5L6YW715341@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] another offtopic link Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 17:43:39 +1000 Froggie Inferno stuff is still available at http://www.cafeshops.com/chunder/ tho alas the frosted beer mugs are no longer available. I make no money from these but Mr plan9gear has marked his stuff up. And stuffed up his plan9 description. I recommend cafepress. There stuff is good quality and the turnaround is surprisingly quick. And they don't give a shit if you only sell one, to yourself at that. brucee From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 17:01:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 17:01:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15838 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 17:01:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15834 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 17:01:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 17:01:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 38E5819B4F; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 04:01:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 15CED19B49 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 04:00:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA17669 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 04:00:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5L80N715745 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 04:00:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306210800.h5L80N715745@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] another offtopic link In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 21 Jun 2003 17:43:39 +1000." <002a01c337c9$396154a0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 04:00:23 -0400 > Froggie Inferno stuff is still available at http://www.cafeshops.com/chunder/ What? No Thong? - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 17:08:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 17:08:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16097 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 17:08:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16092 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 17:08:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 17:08:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C401319B56; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 04:08:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (server.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5675519B54 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 04:07:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from foible.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with SMTP id h5L86xl25693 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 10:07:01 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: lucio@proxima.alt.za MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] More Fossil anomalies Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 10:06:59 +0200 I think I'm moderately up to date, but I with all my commuting, I'm having trouble keeping track. Is there an easy place to query the Fossil version? A 'what' type ID? I get, on my experimental system (thanks again, John!): err2: decompression failed: offset out of range: off=5720 d=4331 nbits=13 disk: io=10005 at 9.805ms err2: decompression gave partial block: 8186/8192 disk: io-10002 at 9.936ms which sound quite ominous to me. Given that these are coincidental with link problems raised here, I wonder if I have a broken Fossil and how I should go about checking this. I think the host I'm running Fossil on is a bit limited, memory wise, but I would wish for clearer diagnostics. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 17:45:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 17:45:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16613 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 17:45:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16609 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 17:45:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 17:45:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A73F019B59; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 04:45:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.183]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3BAA119B48 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 04:44:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-12-167.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.12.167 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 08:44:29 -0000 Message-ID: <3EF42934.9040102@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] another offtopic link References: <200306210634.h5L6YW715341@augusta.math.psu.edu> <002a01c337c9$396154a0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 04:45:24 -0500 > > >I make no money from these but Mr plan9gear has marked his stuff up. >And stuffed up his plan9 description. > Hmm... wondering if Andrey posted the original msg because... It is his own site??? tee hee :-) I made a hoodie a while back with Hewlett Packard iron-on printables. I think that was a year ago... Coincidentally, I happen to be wearing it right now! http://blessedchildren.virtualave.net/hoodie.jpg Don http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 18:16:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 18:16:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17068 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 18:16:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17064 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 18:16:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 18:16:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B8EE019B5E; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 05:16:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail-in-05.arcor-online.net (mail-in-05.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.45]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E0FE419B5E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 05:15:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.arcor.net (dsl-213-023-026-069.arcor-ip.net [213.23.26.69]) by mail-in-05.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CF9B20629; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 11:15:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: by localhost.arcor.net (Postfix, from userid 31451) id 728F52D003; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 11:16:52 +0200 (CEST) From: Markus Friedl To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: hangar18-general@open-forge.org, hell@einstein.ssz.com Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license Message-ID: <20030621091652.GB24882@folly> References: <11085765386d7572968a06a2ee05f689@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 11:16:52 +0200 On Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 03:46:21PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > Why can't Lucent just release Plan 9 under a GPL? because the GPL would not help when trying to replace gcc.... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 18:38:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 18:38:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17385 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 18:38:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17381 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 18:38:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 18:38:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0BB2519B3C; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 05:38:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5FA9119AD6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 05:37:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h5L9TJnp010619 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 11:29:24 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h5L9TICm010618 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 11:29:18 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license Message-ID: <20030621112916.E2250@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <11085765386d7572968a06a2ee05f689@plan9.bell-labs.com> <20030621091652.GB24882@folly> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <20030621091652.GB24882@folly>; from Markus Friedl on Sat, Jun 21, 2003 at 11:16:52AM +0200 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 11:29:16 +0200 On Sat, Jun 21, 2003 at 11:16:52AM +0200, Markus Friedl wrote: > > On Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 03:46:21PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > > Why can't Lucent just release Plan 9 under a GPL? > > because the GPL would not help when trying to replace gcc.... But 2c doesn't do C++, either. So GCC would need to be in the OpenBSD distribution anyway. As for using 8c, there doesn't seem to be anything in the licence prohibiting use for developing an alternative OS, so is it not possible to develop with the Plan 9 toolkit but release GCC compliant code? Or is the cross-development elegance of ?c you're after, which would allow OpenBSD to catch and maybe even overtake NetBSD? ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 18:51:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 18:51:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17649 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 18:51:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17645 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 18:51:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 18:51:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5B4DD19B63; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 05:51:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F148119B5F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 05:50:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h5L9gAnp010649 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 11:42:14 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h5L9g8aH010648 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 11:42:08 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] More Fossil anomalies Message-ID: <20030621114207.F2250@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from lucio@proxima.alt.za on Sat, Jun 21, 2003 at 10:06:59AM +0200 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 11:42:07 +0200 On Sat, Jun 21, 2003 at 10:06:59AM +0200, lucio@proxima.alt.za wrote: > > I get, on my experimental system (thanks again, John!): > > err2: decompression failed: offset out of range: off=5720 d=4331 nbits=13 > disk: io=10005 at 9.805ms > err2: decompression gave partial block: 8186/8192 > disk: io-10002 at 9.936ms > Here's a follow-up which is so delayed, it may have nothing in common with the above: fossil 83: suicide: sys: trap: fault read addr=0x2 pc=0x00018fb6 ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 19:46:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 19:46:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18472 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 19:46:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18468 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 19:46:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 19:46:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0542419B69; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 06:46:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from edsac.borf.com (borf.com [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6564D19AD6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 06:45:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7dfabffda8300d92cc3bf30c857ba7ce@coraid.com> From: bwc@coraid.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 06:42:45 -0400 I want to also thank the Plan 9 team for the obviously hard work to get Plan 9 released. Thirteen years ago it was impossible to get anything of substance out of the Labs. It seemed to me that any work I would do there wouldn't be useful to anyone on the outside. The Plan 9 work represents 16 or 17 years of hard innovation and work by a lot of people and represents a larger body of advancements possibly than the original Unix work. Its usefulness and impact has already been felt in the Unix world with some of its innovations finding their way into lots of kernels. I don't want amature lawyers and members of a license based religious sect making the hard efforts of the Plan 9 crew to get the work of a significant part of their life out into the world in a form that can be directly used for the betterment of mankind. They have been successful in getting use a license that allows their work to be used directly in new products. I, and others, are deeply greatful. Brantley Coile From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 22:50:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 22:50:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20784 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 22:50:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20780 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 22:50:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 22:50:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E9E7E19B15; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 09:50:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C887A19B40 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 09:49:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h5LDuk514821; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 08:56:46 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: , Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license In-Reply-To: <20030621091652.GB24882@folly> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 08:56:46 -0500 (CDT) On Sat, 21 Jun 2003, Markus Friedl wrote: > On Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 03:46:21PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > > Why can't Lucent just release Plan 9 under a GPL? > > because the GPL would not help when trying to replace gcc.... I find that line of reasoning more than specious. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 21 22:53:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 21 22:53:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20866 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Jun 2003 22:53:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20862 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 22:53:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 22:53:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C6DDF19B5D; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 09:53:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E9E719B5B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 09:52:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h5LE08i14895; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 09:00:08 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: , In-Reply-To: <7dfabffda8300d92cc3bf30c857ba7ce@coraid.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 09:00:08 -0500 (CDT) On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 bwc@coraid.com wrote: > I want to also thank the Plan 9 team for the obviously hard work to > get Plan 9 released. Thirteen years ago it was impossible to get anything > of substance out of the Labs. Bull, they would have sold you V2 for $300 a copy and a 'no commercial apps' license. > I don't want amature lawyers and members of a license based religious sect > making the hard efforts of the Plan 9 crew to get the work of a significant > part of their life out into the world in a form that can be directly used > for the betterment of mankind. What a contradictory statement, and you did it with a straight face too. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 22 00:24:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 22 00:24:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22234 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Jun 2003 00:24:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22230 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2003 00:24:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Jun 2003 00:24:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B779819B46; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 11:24:22 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4975519A6B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 11:22:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5LFMPGn025415 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 08:22:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5806cca7202d9f48018231fd3e03e747@centurytel.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] another offtopic link From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: <0b3a059ec18ed2faf9b68072962384ea@mightycheese.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 07:25:18 -0700 > still, the classic thong and baby's bib make a great outfit. The BBQ apron has possibilities too. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 22 00:53:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 22 00:53:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22663 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Jun 2003 00:53:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22659 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2003 00:53:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Jun 2003 00:53:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ED36519B4B; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 11:53:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C669C19B48 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 11:52:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5LFqQeH004113 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 09:52:26 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5LFqQFq004109 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 09:52:26 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] another offtopic link In-Reply-To: <3EF42934.9040102@ameritech.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 09:52:26 -0600 (MDT) On Sat, 21 Jun 2003, northern snowfall wrote: > Hmm... wondering if Andrey posted the original msg because... > It is his own site??? tee hee :-) > if it was my site there would only be the glenda vs tux image on the t-shirts :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 22 00:59:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 22 00:59:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22749 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Jun 2003 00:59:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22745 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2003 00:59:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Jun 2003 00:59:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E258819B48; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 11:59:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3F22D19995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 11:58:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5LFwQGn005893 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 08:58:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license From: "Skip Tavakkolian" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 08:01:21 -0700 >> What we see from Lucent is typical corporate psychology. They're afraid to >> let one iota more go than necessary to make a profit. It's hard to take >> any argument or claim based on 'justify a trust' when the only issue at >> hand is profit. > > We apologize for letting the code out with a license that obligates > the receiver in any way. I promise that with comments like this its > not likely ever to happen again. David, I think you should consider the source. I, like most here, am grateful. It seems to me counterproductive to keep looking for flaws in the license when the intent has been clearly stated over and over again that Lucent/Bell Labs wants Plan9 to be opensource. It is always about the intent. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 22 02:14:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 22 02:14:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24022 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Jun 2003 02:14:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24018 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2003 02:14:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Jun 2003 02:14:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8CD9519B5B; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 13:14:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AA96219A17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 13:13:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h5LHDH58030375 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 11:13:17 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h5LHDH9P012935 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 11:13:17 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] another offtopic link In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 11:13:17 -0600 (MDT) I think the thought of Andrey in a thong is something to be treated seriously, and with great fear. ron p.s. oh, yeah, :-) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 22 02:30:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 22 02:30:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24231 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Jun 2003 02:30:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24227 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2003 02:30:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Jun 2003 02:30:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BEA6419A17; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 13:30:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3811E19B57 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 13:29:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 16562 invoked by uid 991); 21 Jun 2003 17:29:30 -0000 Message-ID: <20030621172930.16561.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> From: "Scott Schwartz" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] ld.com problems? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 21 Jun 2003 13:29:30 -0400 Has anyone had problems with ld.com? On my old pentium, running ld.com gets as far as the greeting and then the screen clears and the machine reboots. Browsing sourcedump it looks like boot/pc/l.s changed a constant from 0x08000 to 0x90000 (withough changing the comment that says 24K for page tables.) Putting that value back seems to fix the problem, but am I causing some other problem by doing that? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 22 02:33:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 22 02:33:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24269 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Jun 2003 02:33:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24265 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2003 02:33:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Jun 2003 02:33:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AD0D919B64; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 13:33:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ab97c2373.com (80.179.100.86.forward.012.net.il [80.179.100.86]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9DC1D19B1B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 13:32:16 -0400 (EDT) From: "TONYE BARNKWEST" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6900 DM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <20030621173216.9DC1D19B1B@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] GREETINGS!!! Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: tonyebarnkwest@netscape.net List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 19:25:39 -0700 FROM=3A THE DESK OF TONYE BARNKWEST CREDIT CONTROL UNIT PRIVATE EMAIL=3A tonyebarnkwest=40netscape=2Enet STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL I KNOW THIS PROPOSAL WILL COME TO YOU AS A SURPRISE EXPECIALLY WHEN YOU DO NOT KNOW THE WRITER=2CCONDSIDERING THE HUGE SUM OF MONEY INVOLVED WHICH COULD MAKE ANY APPREHENSIVE=2E LET ME START BY INTRODUCING MYSELF TO YOU=2C I AM TONYE BARNKWEST I AM A STAFF OF UNION BANK OF NIGERIA PLC=2E LAGOS=2E I SAW YOUR CONTACT DURING MY PRIVATE SEARCH AT THE INFORMATION CENTRE HERE IN NIGERIA CHAMBER OF COMMENCE AND INDUSTRY AND I WANT TO BELIEVE THAT YOU WILL BE VERY HONEST=2C COMMITTED AND CAPABLE OF ASSISTING IN THIS BUSINESS VENTURE=2E FIRSTLY=2C LET ME EXPLAIN THE SOURCE OF THIS FUNDS AND WHAT YOU ARE EXPECTED TO DO=2E A FORIGNER LATE ENGINEER THEOPHILUS BAKER=2C AN OIL MERCHANT=2FCONTRACTOR WITH THE GOVERNMENT OF NIGERIA=2C UNTIL HIS DEATH=2C OVER A YEAR AGO=2C WAS A VICTIM OFA KENYA AIRWAYS=3A BUS =28A310-300=29 FLIGHT KQ430 PLANE CRASH=2E THE DECEASED=2C ENGNIEER THEOPILIUS BAKER=2C BANKED WITH US AND HAS A CLOSING BALANCE AS A JULY 2000 WORTH $4=2E5M =28FOUR MILLION FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND USD=29=2EWHICH MY BANK=2C NOW EXPECTS A NEXT-OF-KIN TO CLAIM AS THE BENEFICIARY OF THE FUNDS=2C EFFORTS HAS BEEN MADE BY UNION BANK OF NIGERIA TO GET IN TOUCH WITH THE BAKER'S FAMILY OR RELATIVE BUT TO NO SUCCESS=2E BASED ON THE PERCEIVED POSSIBILITY OF NOT BEING ABLE TO LOCATE ENGNIEER THEOPILUS'S NEXT-OF-KIN=2C THE MANAGEMENT UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF OUR CHAIRMAN AND THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS ARE MAKING ARRANGEMENTS FOR THE FUNDS TO BE DECLARED UNCLAIMED AND CHANNELED TO AN UNKNOWN ACCOUNT=2EIT IS BASED ON THIS THAT WE HAVE CONTACTED YOU TO STAND AS THE NEXT-OF-KIN OF LATE ENGR=2ETHEOPILUS BAKER SO THAT THE FUNDS=2C WILL BE RELEASED AND PAID INTO YOUR ACCOUNT AS THE BENEFICIARY AND THE NEXT-OF-KIN TO THE DECEASED=2E ALL DOCUMENTS=2C AND PROOF TO ENABLE YOU GET THE FUNDS HAVE BEEN CAREFULLY WORKED OUT AS WE HAVE SECURED FROM THE DIFFERENT OFFICES CONCERNED FOR THE SMOOTH TRANSFER OF THE FUND TO YOUR NOMINATED ACCOUNT=2EIT HAS BEEN AGREED THAT THE OWNER OF THE ACCOUNT WILL BE COMPENSATED WITH 20% OF THE REMITTED FUNDS=2C WHILE WE KEEP 75% AND 5% WILL BE SET ASIDE TO OFFSET EXPENSES BOTH LOCALLY AND INTERNATIONAL=2E IF THIS PROPOSAL SATISFIES YOU=2C PLEASE REACH US ONLY BY MAIL OR PHONE=2C FOR MORE INFORMATION=2E IT MIGHT BE DIFFICULT TO GET THROUGH TO ME=2C BECAUSE OF POOR TELECOMUNICATION SYSTEM HERE=2E PLEASE KEEP TRYING YOU WILL DEFINITELY GET THROUGH=2E YOURS FAITHFULLY=2C TONYE BARNKWEST From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 22 04:16:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 22 04:16:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25629 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Jun 2003 04:16:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25625 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2003 04:16:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Jun 2003 04:16:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2517319B6B; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 15:16:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 06A6919B1B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 15:15:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <18266fe8736f580256f66f05b5b236e6@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] (no subject) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 15:15:52 -0400 Has anyone had problems with ld.com? On my old pentium, running ld.com gets as far as the greeting and then the screen clears and the machine reboots. Browsing sourcedump it looks like boot/pc/l.s changed a constant from 0x08000 to 0x90000 (withough changing the comment that says 24K for page tables.) Putting that value back seems to fix the problem, but am I causing some other problem by doing that? Updated /sys/src/boot/pc and /386/{ld.com, 9pxeload, 9load} By the way, the 24k in the comment refers to the size of the tables, not the location they sit at. I added an ifdef for 9pxeload to set it to a value that doesn't overwrite where PXE bios sticks the downloaded program. I feel so unclean. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 22 04:48:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 22 04:48:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26293 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Jun 2003 04:48:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26289 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2003 04:48:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Jun 2003 04:48:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9A14C199DD; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 15:48:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.64.20]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id BB8AB19A6B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 15:47:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 8905 invoked by uid 65534); 21 Jun 2003 19:47:26 -0000 Received: from PPP-219.65.8.120.mum1.vsnl.net.in (EHLO home.woodlands) (219.65.8.120) by mail.gmx.net (mp027) with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 21:47:26 +0200 From: Apurva Mehta To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-Id: <20030622011730.0dbc1aad.apurva@gmx.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.1 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] kernel panics.. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 01:17:30 +0530 I posted a few days ago about kernel panics when I try to boot plan 9 from my hard disk. I have not been able to solve them yet. I have been able to successfully boot Plan 9 from the bootable cd. I have installed plan 9 on the second primary partion of my second hard disk (primary slave). I tried installing it from the boot cd as well as from an install floppy. I have also tried booting plan 9 straight of the hard disk as well as from a boot floppy.. Whichever combination I try, I always wind up with the same error message. The register values may change. The error message I am including here is what I get when I try to boot from my boot floppy. The 9load file on the boot floppy is the one which Russ Cox was nice enough to send me yesterday. --- PBS... Plan 9 from Bell Labs ELCR: 0C20 apm ax=f000 cx-f000 di-1200 ebx=576c esi=C03e4 dev A0 port 1F0 config 045A capabilities 0F00 wdma 0007 udma 103F dev B0 port 1F0 config 045A capabilities 0F00 mwdma 0007 udma 0407 dev A0 port 170 config 85C0 capabilities 0F00 mwdma 0407 dev B0 port 170 config 85C0 capabilities 0B00 wdma 0007 udma 0407 FLAGS=10246 TRAP=e ECODE=2 PC=***800298b4*** AX 00000000 BX 00000000 CX 001f4f1b DX 00000000 SI 0001e5f61 D1 81000000 BP 0bb1f04 CS 0010 DS 0008 ES 0008 FS 0008 GS 0008 CR0 80000011 CR2 81000000 CR3 ***00094000*** panic: exception/interrupt 14 Press almost any key to reset... --- Here is my plan9.ini file.. --- bootfile=sdC1!fs!/386/9pcdisk bootdisk=local!#S/sdC1/fs *nomp=1 *nousbprobe=1 *noetherprobe=1 partition=new mouseport=ps2 monitor=multisync75 vgasize=1024x768x32 --- I would love to be able to use plan 9 so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.. Thanks, - Apurva From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 22 05:34:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 22 05:34:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26920 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Jun 2003 05:34:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26916 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2003 05:34:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Jun 2003 05:34:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A867D19B66; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 16:34:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.182]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 70B0D19B1B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 16:33:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-12-167.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.12.167 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 20:33:08 -0000 Message-ID: <3EF4CF4E.30801@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] another offtopic link References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 16:34:06 -0500 > > >if it was my site there would only be the glenda vs tux image on the >t-shirts :) > Hahaha, niiiice The next plan9 shirt I make will be a long-sleeved t-shirt with this image: http://rainfall.autumn.net.sc/who/north_/deadglenda.jpg Don http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 22 05:38:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 22 05:38:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26987 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Jun 2003 05:38:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26982 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2003 05:38:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Jun 2003 05:38:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C91819B70; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 16:38:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 97A4119B6C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 16:37:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-12-167.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.12.167 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 20:37:54 -0000 Message-ID: <3EF4D06D.40709@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] another offtopic link References: <3EF4CF4E.30801@ameritech.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 16:38:53 -0500 > http://rainfall.autumn.net.sc/who/north_/deadglenda.jpg Oops... that would be my *internal* namespace. http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_/deadglenda.jpg Don http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 22 05:53:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 22 05:53:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27204 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Jun 2003 05:53:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27200 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2003 05:53:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Jun 2003 05:53:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 982B719A81; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 16:53:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.gmx.net (imap.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 071B319B49 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 16:52:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 12332 invoked by uid 65534); 21 Jun 2003 20:52:11 -0000 Received: from PPP-219.65.16.73.mum1.vsnl.net.in (EHLO home.woodlands) (219.65.16.73) by mail.gmx.net (mp022) with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 22:52:11 +0200 From: Apurva Mehta To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] kernel panics.. Message-Id: <20030622022216.7cf30940.apurva@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: <20030622011730.0dbc1aad.apurva@gmx.net> References: <20030622011730.0dbc1aad.apurva@gmx.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.1 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 02:22:16 +0530 After reading the my original message a couple of times.. I realize it can be a bit confusing in 2 respects. 1) The error message I posted has 2 fields containing *** before and after the value in the register. I have included this to indicate that the values have changed from the ones that were present when I booted using the 9load binary from the install floppy. Also, the 9load binary from the install floppy works when it is on the install floppy. It does not work when copied to the boot floppy. 2) The plan9.ini file is the one I have on my hard disk. I get the exact same error message when I try to boot plan 9 straight from my disk. Sorry if I caused any confusion. - Apurva From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 22 07:57:54 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 22 07:57:54 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29121 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Jun 2003 07:57:53 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29117 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2003 07:57:52 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Jun 2003 07:57:52 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 682CE19B6E; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 18:57:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A03819A77 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 18:56:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sdn-ap-019castocp0033.dialsprint.net ([65.178.64.33] helo=acm.org) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19TrH6-0002Zt-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 15:56:04 -0700 Message-ID: <3EF4E2A7.5020104@acm.org> From: "D. Brownlee" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; NetBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030618 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] kernel panics.. References: <20030622011730.0dbc1aad.apurva@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: <20030622011730.0dbc1aad.apurva@gmx.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 15:56:39 -0700 Apurva Mehta wrote: > Here is my plan9.ini file.. > > --- > > bootfile=sdC1!fs!/386/9pcdisk > bootdisk=local!#S/sdC1/fs > > *nomp=1 > *nousbprobe=1 > *noetherprobe=1 > partition=new > mouseport=ps2 > monitor=multisync75 > vgasize=1024x768x32 > 32 bits? Aren't there 8, 16, and 24? My video card only goes up to 24 bits, so I used: vgasize=1024x768x24 But if that (32 bits) were a problem, it probably wouldn't have installed. Did it install? Could you try using the drive that you're trying to install on as the only drive? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 22 09:15:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 22 09:15:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30391 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Jun 2003 09:15:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30387 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2003 09:15:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Jun 2003 09:15:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9CC0919B73; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 20:15:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5950C19A7B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 20:14:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1d41fec1925f41c51a00fadfe678c1f3@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] BOOTP vs DHCP Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 20:14:16 -0400 I'ld like to have 9load/9pxeload only support DHCP, i.e., assume its always there when booting over the ether. Is there anyone that only has BOOTP out there anymore? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 22 09:21:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 22 09:21:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30478 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Jun 2003 09:21:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30474 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2003 09:21:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Jun 2003 09:21:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4159B19B74; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 20:21:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.182]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id D7DE319B72 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 20:20:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-12-167.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.12.167 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jun 2003 00:20:22 -0000 Message-ID: <3EF50490.8050405@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] BOOTP vs DHCP References: <1d41fec1925f41c51a00fadfe678c1f3@plan9.bell-labs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 20:21:20 -0500 > > >I'ld like to have 9load/9pxeload only support DHCP, i.e., assume >its always there when booting over the ether. Is there anyone >that only has BOOTP out there anymore? > I use BOOTP because it's a heck of a lot faster for me to set up on any given OS than DHCP. Don http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 22 09:58:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 22 09:58:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30996 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Jun 2003 09:58:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30992 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2003 09:58:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Jun 2003 09:58:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D099919A98; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 20:58:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rwcrmhc13.attbi.com (unknown [204.127.198.39]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C2BDF19A6B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 20:57:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nospam.com (h00a0cca0b74a.ne.client2.attbi.com[24.34.51.37](untrusted sender)) by attbi.com (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2003062200572601500ait9ge>; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 00:57:27 +0000 Message-ID: <3EF4FD36.3060507@nospam.com> From: bs User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.9) Gecko/20020408 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] BOOTP vs DHCP References: <1d41fec1925f41c51a00fadfe678c1f3@plan9.bell-labs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: bs@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 20:49:58 -0400 David Presotto wrote: > I'ld like to have 9load/9pxeload only support DHCP, i.e., assume > its always there when booting over the ether. Is there anyone > that only has BOOTP out there anymore? DHCP is the way to go. Setup is pretty easy for booting and a DHCP server can be found anywhere in an enterprise. However, I am a little confused in what 9pxeload actually does, or why it has 'pxe' in it's name. Does it use the 'next-server & filename' option from DHCP? or does it need a real pxeserver somewhere to hand out layers and bootagents? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 22 10:06:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 22 10:06:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31145 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Jun 2003 10:06:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31141 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2003 10:06:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Jun 2003 10:06:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC3EE19A63; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 21:06:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 045EF19A63 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 21:05:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] BOOTP vs DHCP In-Reply-To: <3EF4FD36.3060507@nospam.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 21:05:56 -0400 PXE BIOS's don't need a pxe server. They just use dhcp and tftp to pick up a program to load at 0x7C00 and then jump to it. The only thing that's different about PXE BIOS DHCP's is that they set the vendorclass to something starting with PXE. PXE BIOS's do provide a 16 bit interface for doing further tftp's etc but, since 9load already does all of that in 32 bit mode, there's no real reason. 9pxeload is just a 9load that knows that it gets loaded at a different location and that has to shift from 16 bit mode to 32 bit mode when it starts. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 22 10:41:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 22 10:41:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31856 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Jun 2003 10:41:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31852 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2003 10:41:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Jun 2003 10:41:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1139B19B76; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 21:41:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sccrmhc13.attbi.com (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B907E19A7B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 21:40:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nospam.com (h00a0cca0b74a.ne.client2.attbi.com[24.34.51.37](untrusted sender)) by attbi.com (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <20030622014027016009t61qe>; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 01:40:27 +0000 Message-ID: <3EF5074A.2080503@nospam.com> From: bs User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.9) Gecko/20020408 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] BOOTP vs DHCP References: <3EF4FD36.3060507@nospam.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: bs@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 21:32:58 -0400 David Presotto wrote: > PXE BIOS's don't need a pxe server. They just use dhcp and tftp > to pick up a program to load at 0x7C00 and then jump to it. > > The only thing that's different about PXE BIOS DHCP's is that they > set the vendorclass to something starting with PXE. > > PXE BIOS's do provide a 16 bit interface for doing further tftp's > etc but, since 9load already does all of that in 32 bit mode, there's > no real reason. > > 9pxeload is just a 9load that knows that it gets loaded at a > different location and that has to shift from 16 bit mode > to 32 bit mode when it starts. So can we all boot from the labs extranet machine if we can dhcp/tftp to it? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 22 11:28:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 22 11:28:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32662 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Jun 2003 11:28:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32658 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2003 11:28:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Jun 2003 11:28:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A4E2B19B7A; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 22:28:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7F14719A8E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 22:27:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35b73b7e45bfe29563b745c307819379@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] BOOTP vs DHCP In-Reply-To: <3EF5074A.2080503@nospam.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 22:27:08 -0400 yup From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 22 11:39:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 22 11:39:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 464 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Jun 2003 11:39:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 460 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2003 11:39:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Jun 2003 11:39:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 38EDD19B49; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 22:39:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C38C119B1B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 22:38:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22016 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 22:38:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5M2cJ719861 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 22:38:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306220238.h5M2cJ719861@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] BOOTP vs DHCP In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 21 Jun 2003 20:21:20 CDT." <3EF50490.8050405@ameritech.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 22:38:19 -0400 > I use BOOTP because it's a heck of a lot faster for me to set up > on any given OS than DHCP. Hmm. I run the Plan 9 DHCP server and have to say that I'm quite happy with how easy it is to set up. I just edit /lib/ndb/local, and start ip/dhcpd, and I'm good to go. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 22 11:47:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 22 11:47:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 606 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Jun 2003 11:47:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 602 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2003 11:47:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Jun 2003 11:47:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DEFF319B62; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 22:47:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [64.71.129.86]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E4ADC19B82 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 22:46:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5577B66B29; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 19:46:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] BOOTP vs DHCP Message-ID: <20030622024637.GJ7193@cassie.foobarbaz.net> References: <3EF50490.8050405@ameritech.net> <200306220238.h5M2cJ719861@augusta.math.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200306220238.h5M2cJ719861@augusta.math.psu.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 19:46:38 -0700 On Sat, Jun 21, 2003 at 10:38:19PM -0400, Dan Cross wrote: > > Hmm. I run the Plan 9 DHCP server and have to say that I'm quite > happy with how easy it is to set up. I just edit /lib/ndb/local, > and start ip/dhcpd, and I'm good to go. That can be said of a lot of services in Plan 9. I've found sysadmin in Plan 9 to be much easier than any other system I've had to administer. Sure, it has its quirks like any system, but it's a giant leap from the nightmare *NIX can be to admin. -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 22 12:02:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 22 12:02:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 850 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Jun 2003 12:02:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 846 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2003 12:02:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Jun 2003 12:02:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2739819A92; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 23:02:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rwcrmhc12.attbi.com (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CDB5C19B7F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 23:01:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nospam.com (h00a0cca0b74a.ne.client2.attbi.com[24.34.51.37](untrusted sender)) by attbi.com (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <2003062203012601400nqj4ce>; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 03:01:26 +0000 Message-ID: <3EF51A45.5000905@nospam.com> From: bs User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.9) Gecko/20020408 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] BOOTP vs DHCP References: <3EF5074A.2080503@nospam.com> <35b73b7e45bfe29563b745c307819379@plan9.bell-labs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: bs@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 22:53:57 -0400 David Presotto wrote: > yup Cool! Pls. let us know when there is a bootable kernel available for tftp download. If we did a PXE server, we can have a menu of kernels to boot from. I was looking into PXE enabled network cards that Plan9 also supports, and I can find an Intel PRO/100+ (82559 contr.) for $18. I need to see if my RT311 DHCP server can be hacked. When Hanger 18 provides me CPU/FS, i can do computing on the cheap :-) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 22 12:04:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 22 12:04:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 878 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Jun 2003 12:04:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 874 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2003 12:04:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Jun 2003 12:04:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 02F5419B1B; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 23:04:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rwcrmhc12.attbi.com (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 045F719B78 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 23:03:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nospam.com (h00a0cca0b74a.ne.client2.attbi.com[24.34.51.37](untrusted sender)) by attbi.com (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <2003062203035301400nq6iue>; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 03:03:53 +0000 Message-ID: <3EF51AD8.4000002@nospam.com> From: bs User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.9) Gecko/20020408 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] BOOTP vs DHCP References: <3EF5074A.2080503@nospam.com> <35b73b7e45bfe29563b745c307819379@plan9.bell-labs.com> <3EF51A45.5000905@nospam.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 22:56:24 -0400 bs wrote: > David Presotto wrote: > >> yup > > I was looking into PXE enabled network cards that Plan9 also supports, > and I can find an Intel PRO/100+ (82559 contr.) for $18. I should have said Intel PRO/100+ Management PCI Adapter. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 22 12:14:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 22 12:14:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1009 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Jun 2003 12:14:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1005 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2003 12:14:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Jun 2003 12:14:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A7C5619B88; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 23:14:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.184]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id CCBC419B7E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 23:13:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-12-167.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.12.167 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jun 2003 03:13:30 -0000 Message-ID: <3EF52D23.3030007@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] BOOTP vs DHCP References: <200306220238.h5M2cJ719861@augusta.math.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 23:14:27 -0500 > > >Hmm. I run the Plan 9 DHCP server and have to say that I'm quite >happy with how easy it is to set up. I just edit /lib/ndb/local, >and start ip/dhcpd, and I'm good to go. > Yeh, I run it on Plan 9 to boot my other Plan 9. Though, on other operating systems, I prefer bootp. Just meaning that I do, sometimes, prefer bootp and might want that option in case I needed it in some odd situation in the future. Don http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 22 12:22:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 22 12:22:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1127 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Jun 2003 12:22:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1123 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2003 12:22:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Jun 2003 12:22:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6EB7219A85; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 23:22:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from 9srv.net (ip-64-32-179-37.dsl.nyc.megapath.net [64.32.179.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 50A2219AA0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 23:21:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35a6ec7583c53201a9062bfb24dc9383@9srv.net> From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license In-Reply-To: <11085765386d7572968a06a2ee05f689@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 23:10:28 -0400 // We apologize for letting the code out with a license that obligates // the receiver in any way. I promise that with comments like this its // not likely ever to happen again. y'know, it seems people are divided over this new license. some people are happy as could be, some are happy but look for future improvements, and some just complain with no end. maybe you guys should come up with some way for people to express whether or not they find the license to be acceptable before agreeing to it? you could put radio buttons on the download page or something. then nobody would be under obligations they didn't agree to. that sound good? seriously, let me repeat what others have said: i'm highly apreciative of all the work, both technical and otherwise, all the labs guys (and, for that matter, everyone else) has put into this project. plan 9 remains such an exciting project only thanks to your efforts. while some people have expressed some concerns (some even doing so in a reasonable manner, i think), everything we've seen from you guys represents progress in one form or another. i just keep getting more excited about things, and the new license (while a minor concern in my mind, for my purposes) just helps that along. so thanks. ã‚¢ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 22 12:34:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 22 12:34:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1371 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Jun 2003 12:34:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1367 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2003 12:34:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Jun 2003 12:34:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3945B19A8E; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 23:34:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [64.71.129.86]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5EB1219A77 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 23:33:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 6B29966B29; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 20:33:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license Message-ID: <20030622033344.GK7193@cassie.foobarbaz.net> References: <11085765386d7572968a06a2ee05f689@plan9.bell-labs.com> <35a6ec7583c53201a9062bfb24dc9383@9srv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <35a6ec7583c53201a9062bfb24dc9383@9srv.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 20:33:44 -0700 Can we just let this thread die, please? Talk about beating a dead horse... On Sat, Jun 21, 2003 at 11:10:28PM -0400, a@9srv.net wrote: > // We apologize for letting the code out with a license that obligates > // the receiver in any way. I promise that with comments like this its > // not likely ever to happen again. > > y'know, it seems people are divided over this new license. some people > are happy as could be, some are happy but look for future improvements, > and some just complain with no end. maybe you guys should come up with > some way for people to express whether or not they find the license to > be acceptable before agreeing to it? you could put radio buttons on the > download page or something. then nobody would be under obligations they > didn't agree to. that sound good? > > seriously, let me repeat what others have said: i'm highly apreciative > of all the work, both technical and otherwise, all the labs guys (and, > for that matter, everyone else) has put into this project. plan 9 > remains such an exciting project only thanks to your efforts. while > some people have expressed some concerns (some even doing so in a > reasonable manner, i think), everything we've seen from you guys > represents progress in one form or another. i just keep getting more > excited about things, and the new license (while a minor concern in my > mind, for my purposes) just helps that along. > > so thanks. -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 22 12:42:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 22 12:42:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1510 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Jun 2003 12:42:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1506 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2003 12:42:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Jun 2003 12:42:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 600BA19AA0; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 23:42:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.179]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id ED23619A7B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 23:41:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-12-167.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.12.167 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jun 2003 03:41:01 -0000 Message-ID: <3EF53397.6050009@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license References: <11085765386d7572968a06a2ee05f689@plan9.bell-labs.com> <35a6ec7583c53201a9062bfb24dc9383@9srv.net> <20030622033344.GK7193@cassie.foobarbaz.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 23:41:59 -0500 Christopher Nielsen wrote: >Can we just let this thread die, please? Talk about beating >a dead horse... > I find that sometimes beating a dead horse can be a good thing. Especially if it gets real dusty and you need to clean it out. Don http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 22 15:04:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 22 15:04:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3819 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Jun 2003 15:04:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3815 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2003 15:04:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Jun 2003 15:04:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DDC6219AA1; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 02:04:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.gmx.net (imap.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 449A019A7B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 02:03:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 8423 invoked by uid 65534); 22 Jun 2003 06:03:42 -0000 Received: from PPP-219.65.7.244.mum1.vsnl.net.in (EHLO home.woodlands) (219.65.7.244) by mail.gmx.net (mp008) with SMTP; 22 Jun 2003 08:03:42 +0200 From: Apurva Mehta To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] kernel panics.. Message-Id: <20030622113348.38571cb1.apurva@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: <3EF4E2A7.5020104@acm.org> References: <20030622011730.0dbc1aad.apurva@gmx.net> <3EF4E2A7.5020104@acm.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.1 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 11:33:48 +0530 On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 15:56:39 -0700 "D. Brownlee" wrote: > But if that (32 bits) were a problem, it > probably wouldn't have installed. Did it install? Well, I was just playing around with different settings. The latest setting I tried was what I put up. I have tried 640x480x8, 1024x768x16 and 1024x768x24.. No difference. Yes it did install both from the install floppy and from the cd. Infact I had to do a text install from the floppy because I got the message that 24 bits was not supported on nvidia cards, use 32 instead... > Could you try using the drive that you're trying > to install on as the only drive? I disabled my primary master during the installation. However, I re enabled it since. I will try to disable it and then try to boot plan9. I will post back to tell you if it works. - Apurva From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 22 22:09:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 22 22:09:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11407 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Jun 2003 22:09:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11403 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2003 22:09:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Jun 2003 22:09:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 31BE619AAB; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 09:09:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from magnum.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8F92C19A6B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 09:08:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by magnum.cooper.edu id AA25173 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu); Sun, 22 Jun 2003 09:13:42 -0400 From: Joel Salomon To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] another offtopic link In-Reply-To: <3EF4CF4E.30801@ameritech.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 09:13:42 -0400 (EDT) On Sat, 21 Jun 2003, northern snowfall wrote: > http://rainfall.autumn.net.sc/who/north_/deadglenda.jpg :-( --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 22 22:16:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 22 22:16:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11693 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Jun 2003 22:16:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11689 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2003 22:16:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Jun 2003 22:16:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7554119B40; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 09:16:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from magnum.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4CB4919A8C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 09:15:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by magnum.cooper.edu id AA25303 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu); Sun, 22 Jun 2003 09:20:08 -0400 From: Joel Salomon To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] another offtopic link In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 09:20:08 -0400 (EDT) > On Sat, 21 Jun 2003, northern snowfall wrote: > > > http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_/deadglenda.jpg > > :-( > Although the image is hardly as gruesome as the name suggests... --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 22 23:24:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 22 23:24:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12981 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Jun 2003 23:24:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12977 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2003 23:24:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Jun 2003 23:24:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A929719B3F; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 10:24:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.183]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3A50219A70 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 10:23:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-12-167.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.12.167 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jun 2003 14:23:24 -0000 Message-ID: <3EF5CA25.9060601@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] another offtopic link References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 10:24:21 -0500 > > >Although the image is hardly as gruesome as the name suggests... > Oh, yeah. I grew up with influences like the Grateful Dead, etc, so I don't hesitate to prefix 'dead' infront of things. For those that don't know, the skull is the traditional 'steal your face' symbol from the old GD tours and the Steal your Face LP. For those of us that actually went to shows and toured with family and extended family, it holds much more special symbolism. Don http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 23 00:58:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 23 00:58:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14465 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Jun 2003 00:58:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14461 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 00:58:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 00:58:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 29B3019A9F; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 11:58:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from bsd.jcs.local (653219hfc19.tampabay.rr.com [65.32.19.19]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE56E19A6B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 11:57:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bsd.jcs.local (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bsd.jcs.local (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h5MFvDBp017579 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 11:57:13 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jsnader@ix.netcom.com) Received: (from jcs@localhost) by bsd.jcs.local (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h5MFvCTC017578 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 11:57:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: bsd.jcs.local: jcs set sender to jsnader@ix.netcom.com using -f From: Jon Snader To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license Message-ID: <20030622155712.GA17407@ix.netcom.com> Mail-Followup-To: Jon Snader , 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <11085765386d7572968a06a2ee05f689@plan9.bell-labs.com> <35a6ec7583c53201a9062bfb24dc9383@9srv.net> <20030622033344.GK7193@cassie.foobarbaz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030622033344.GK7193@cassie.foobarbaz.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 11:57:12 -0400 On Sat, Jun 21, 2003 at 08:33:44PM -0700, Christopher Nielsen wrote: > Can we just let this thread die, please? Talk about beating > a dead horse... > Usually I'd be inclined to agree with you, but if I am fed up with the whining and complaining, I can only imagine how the folks at the Labs must feel. Sometimes it's appropriate to say ``thank you'' and to reaffirm to Lucent and the guys that the overwhelming majority of us do understand and appreciate the efforts they have made for us. jcs From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 23 04:28:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 23 04:28:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16589 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Jun 2003 04:28:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16585 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 04:28:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 04:28:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1EB2D19A6A; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 15:28:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 04D4F19A25 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 15:27:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sdn-ap-013castocp0354.dialsprint.net ([63.187.129.100] helo=acm.org) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19UAUV-0003MP-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 12:27:08 -0700 Message-ID: <3EF60342.1080102@acm.org> From: "D. Brownlee" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; NetBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030618 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] man page for 'src' cmd. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 12:28:02 -0700 The man page indicates that sam will display the source, but it actually shows up in acme. NO PROBLEM ... sammers can do something with: src -n something Actually, I should start using acme for something other than wallpaper ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 23 05:18:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 23 05:18:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17094 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Jun 2003 05:18:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17090 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 05:18:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 05:18:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D4DD19A06; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 16:18:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7D8D019A06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 16:17:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Jun 22 16:17:27 EDT 2003 Received: from 68.84.56.108 ([68.84.56.108]) by plan9; Sun Jun 22 16:17:24 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <34064d1d0c9913b34f4e21ac344d6ac5@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] man page for 'src' cmd. From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <3EF60342.1080102@acm.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 16:17:31 -0400 > The man page indicates that sam > will display the source, but it > actually shows up in acme. Actually, it says: Src examines the named files to find the corresponding source code, which is then sent to the editor using B (see sam(1)). and sam(1) says: External communication Sam listens to the edit plumb port. If plumbing is not active, on invocation sam creates a named pipe /srv/sam.user which acts as an additional source of commands. Characters written to the named pipe are treated as if they had been typed in the command window. B is a shell-level command that causes an instance of sam running on the same terminal to load the named files. B uses either plumbing or the named pipe, whichever service is available. If plumbing is not enabled, the option allows a line number to be specified for the initial position to dis- play in the last named file (plumbing provides a more gen- eral mechanism for this ability). It shows up in whatever editors are listening to the plumber. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 23 05:32:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 23 05:32:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17208 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Jun 2003 05:32:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17204 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 05:32:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 05:32:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D3BBB19A6D; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 16:32:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DA9CC19A6D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 16:31:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sdn-ap-013castocp0354.dialsprint.net ([63.187.129.100] helo=acm.org) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19UBUO-0006Gv-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 13:31:04 -0700 Message-ID: <3EF61242.7000106@acm.org> From: "D. Brownlee" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; NetBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030618 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] man page for 'src' cmd. References: <34064d1d0c9913b34f4e21ac344d6ac5@plan9.bell-labs.com> In-Reply-To: <34064d1d0c9913b34f4e21ac344d6ac5@plan9.bell-labs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 13:32:02 -0700 Russ Cox wrote: > It shows up in whatever editors are listening > to the plumber. > > Russ OK. Thanks for the info. I need to read about the plumber. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 23 07:13:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 23 07:13:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18205 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Jun 2003 07:13:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18201 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 07:13:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 07:13:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 97FE219A2A; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 18:13:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sccmmhc02.asp.att.net (sccmmhc02.asp.att.net [204.127.203.184]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4155D19A2A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 18:13:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from insightbb.com (12-221-206-147.client.insightbb.com[12.221.206.147]) by sccmmhc02.asp.att.net (sccmmhc02) with SMTP id <20030622221255mm2008al8se>; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 22:12:55 +0000 Message-ID: <3EF62A03.3050901@insightbb.com> From: Dan Oglesby User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030529 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license References: <11085765386d7572968a06a2ee05f689@plan9.bell-labs.com> <35a6ec7583c53201a9062bfb24dc9383@9srv.net> <20030622033344.GK7193@cassie.foobarbaz.net> <20030622155712.GA17407@ix.netcom.com> In-Reply-To: <20030622155712.GA17407@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 17:13:23 -0500 Jon Snader wrote: > On Sat, Jun 21, 2003 at 08:33:44PM -0700, Christopher Nielsen wrote: > >>Can we just let this thread die, please? Talk about beating >>a dead horse... >> > > > Usually I'd be inclined to agree with you, but if I am fed up with > the whining and complaining, I can only imagine how the folks at the > Labs must feel. Sometimes it's appropriate to say ``thank you'' and > to reaffirm to Lucent and the guys that the overwhelming majority of > us do understand and appreciate the efforts they have made for us. > > jcs > I just signed up for this mailing list last week. I'm currently lurking a bit to get a feel for how things operate around here. Plan9 interests me. I will be installing Plan9 on a machine I am currently building (finding compatible hardware). From someone who is incredibly "green" with regards to this system, I wish to say "THANK YOU" to the people who have made Plan9 possible. Too many people fail speak up to offer thanks for the hard work of others in this day and age. This is not beating a dead horse, it is speaking up and making your opinion known. *crawls back into the shadows* --Dan From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 23 09:06:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 23 09:06:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19970 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Jun 2003 09:06:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19963 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 09:06:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 09:06:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6EA1C19A1C; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 20:06:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from geo_ser (unknown [200.13.207.82]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4952019999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 20:05:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp0943.mail.yahoo.com ([61.104.56.200]) by geo_ser with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Sun, 22 Jun 2003 19:09:00 -0500 From: danniellaosondu@excite.com X-Priority: 3 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jun 2003 00:09:07.0296 (UTC) FILETIME=[A9D8BE00:01C3391B] Subject: [9fans] Manfred Becker ( Inheritance Claim) Urgent Business Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 00:06:24 GMT From: Mr.Daniel Osondu Fax: Number +23417597019 Dear Sir, I am writing this proposal hoping that you would be of assistance in this business of mutual benefit. My name is Daniel Osondu an auditor at one of the Banks in lagos-Nigeria. During our last audit exercise,some amount of money totalling $18.5Million was discovered and traced to be owned by one late Engineer Manfred Becker, a foreigner who died in a crash. The source of this fund was further traced to be a contract payment made to him but has remained unclaimed till now.Since his death, nobody has shown up to claim this fund and this attracted our curiosity. I therefore made a research and found out that he did not leave any next of kin in his confidential document with the Ministry that he executed the contract for and also with our Bank. A panel setup by the Federal Government on recovery of funds expects that this fund should be unquestionably claimed by any of his available foreign next of kin or alternatively the fund should be donated for arms and ammunition at a military war college here in Nigeria. Fervent valuable efforts were made by the Panel to get in touch with any of the family or relatives but all have proved to no avail. It is because of the perceived possibility of not going to be able to locate any next of kin ( he had no wife and children) that the panel under the influence of our chairman, Rtd Major General Thomas Danababa , that arrangement is being made for the fund to be declared UNCLAIMABLED and then be donated to the Trust Fund for arms and ammunition which will further enhance the perpetration of war in Africa and the third world in general. To forestall this move, my colleagues and I have taken it upon ourselves to source for a foreign partner who could assist in claimimg this fund for further transfer abroad. I have been given the sole mandate to source for a partner as soon as possible to that effect. All documents and proof to enable you get this fund have been carefully worked out and I am assuring you a 100% risk free involvement. Your share would be 30% of the total amount if you agree to assist while 10% would be set aside to offset all expenses in course of the transfer and the rest would be for us for investment purposes in your country. If this proposal is OK by you, and you do wish to take the advantage of the trust we hope to bestow on you and your company, then kindly reach me immediately via my confidential fax number +23417597019 (ONLY FOR SECURITY REASONS) +23417597019 furnishing me with your most confidential telephone and fax numbers and exclusive email so that I can forward to you the relevant details of the transaction. I expect your urgent response. Regards, Mr. Daniel Osondu confidential e-mail From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 23 10:24:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 23 10:24:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23461 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Jun 2003 10:24:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23457 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 10:24:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 10:24:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0ED4319A71; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 21:24:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3615D199A3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 21:23:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h5N1NPck014765 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 19:23:25 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h5N1NP9P016646 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 19:23:25 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Manfred Becker ( Inheritance Claim) Urgent Business [PMX:##] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 19:23:24 -0600 (MDT) This is clearly a fake. You can tell since IT'S NOT IN ALL CAPS. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 23 10:34:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 23 10:34:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23887 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Jun 2003 10:34:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23881 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 10:34:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 10:34:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C0ED719A3E; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 21:34:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from garlic.apnic.net (garlic.apnic.net [202.12.29.224]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2489619A28 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 21:33:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from garlic.apnic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by garlic.apnic.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5N1Wxp8003052; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 11:32:59 +1000 (EST) Received: (from ggm@localhost) by garlic.apnic.net (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5N1Wrpj003568; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 11:32:53 +1000 (EST) From: George Michaelson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: rminnich@lanl.gov Subject: Re: [9fans] Manfred Becker ( Inheritance Claim) Urgent Business [PMX:##] Message-Id: <20030623113253.58de4a1d.ggm@apnic.net> In-Reply-To: References: Organization: APNIC Pty Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.0claws38 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-pc-netbsdelf1.6T) X-Fruit-Of-The-Month-Club: persimmon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 11:32:53 +1000 A significant amount of the latest Harry Potter travesty appears to be SET IN CAPS. I believe the author wants to highlight the eponymous heroes inner angst at the onset of puberty. I don't recall puberty making me hit the caps-lock key every time I spoke, but then mine was a stunted childhood, stuck in the hell of punch-cards. Perhaps if I'd attended a multi-sex school instead of a no-sex one, I too could have shouted in Bodoni Bold. Apparently, this is a long-standing typographic tradition. We can't blame either BIFF or the spammers for this one. -George On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 19:23:24 -0600 (MDT) ron minnich wrote: > This is clearly a fake. You can tell since IT'S NOT IN ALL CAPS. > > ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 23 10:48:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 23 10:48:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24423 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Jun 2003 10:48:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24419 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 10:48:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 10:48:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 709F119A77; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 21:48:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from yahoo.com (pc2-nott4-6-cust9.nott.cable.ntl.com [81.107.154.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3391519A77 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 21:47:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [13.19.117.201] by smtp.mixedthings.net with NNFMP; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:47:32 -0700 Received: from unknown (137.21.105.73) by asx121.turbo-inline.com with smtp; 23 Jun 2003 10:45:45 +0300 Received: from unknown (85.89.50.182) by m1.gns.snv.thisdomainl.com with NNFMP; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 13:43:58 -1000 Received: from [183.104.173.173] by smtp.doneohx.com with esmtp; 23 Jun 2003 03:42:11 -0200 Message-ID: <384101c33922$e668b940$0cd0d85e@"Noreen Edmundson" noreenedmundsonpqjw> From: "Noreen Edmundson" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 Subject: [9fans] 9fans before you decide Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: "Noreen Edmundson" List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 13:00:55 +1200 Register, renew or transfer your domain name - $14.95. Same service for a fraction of the price. http://www.domainsforpeople.com T@ke me 0ff: http://www.domainsforpeople.com/cgi-bin/off_list.pl From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 23 14:00:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 23 14:00:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 571 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Jun 2003 14:00:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 567 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 14:00:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 14:00:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 41DB819A82; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 01:00:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.monitorbm.co.nz (frontdoor.monitorbm.co.nz [203.167.201.38]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3813919A7F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 00:59:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 18132 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 04:59:06 -0000 Received: from mercury.mbmnz.co.nz (HELO MERCURY) (192.168.0.63) by mail.monitorbm.co.nz with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 04:59:06 -0000 Message-ID: <05af01c33944$52c3f840$3f00a8c0@MERCURY> From: "Andrew Simmons" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] Manfred Becker ( Inheritance Claim) Urgent Business [PMX:##] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:00:10 +1200 > stuck in the hell of punch-cards You had a card punch? Luxury. We had to make our own cards out of cornflake packets. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 23 16:27:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 23 16:27:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7062 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Jun 2003 16:27:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7058 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 16:27:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 16:27:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B729B19A80; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 03:27:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 57CB2199A3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 03:26:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37ee0c0d5f3eae6e75983000dd16611a@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] life's too short From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <21a55d642f78f53fb753f9a156a18846@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-iuapsiiknrmjaqkaeucencpnwk" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:26:35 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-iuapsiiknrmjaqkaeucencpnwk Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks a lot. I'm pulling and looking forward to install it. --upas-iuapsiiknrmjaqkaeucencpnwk Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Fri Jun 20 23:12:27 MDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA13A19A6F; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:12:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 500D619AD6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:11:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Jun 20 17:11:08 EDT 2003 Received: from 64.36.89.66 ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Fri Jun 20 17:11:05 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <21a55d642f78f53fb753f9a156a18846@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] life's too short Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:11:04 -0400 Public service announcement: g% pull mail/lib/pipeto.lib g% cat >$mail/pipeto <; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 03:39:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:39:23 +0200 This was filtered for me by other means, but it got through in one of your replies. > > What we see from Lucent is typical corporate psychology. They're afraid to > > let one iota more go than necessary to make a profit. It's hard to take > > any argument or claim based on 'justify a trust' when the only issue at > > hand is profit. I'd just like to say one thing to choate: if you don't like the system and/or its licence, just dont use it, but please, dont bother us. Don't you see everybody else is the list is really tired of this? and two things for the people from the labs: thanks a lot for the system. thanks a lot for all the time you did expend to get a free (open) distribution. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 23 18:01:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 23 18:01:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11076 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Jun 2003 18:01:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11072 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 18:01:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 18:01:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E93B019A8D; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 05:01:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 66AEA19999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 05:00:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19UN8W-0000KS-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:57:16 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EF347CC.5B19194C@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20030620115233.3dc850df.ggm@apnic.net>, <200306200654.h5K6sq709001@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 08:56:51 GMT Dan Cross wrote: > ... So setting up a filter to convert, say, TeX DVI files > to postscript automatically once they were spooled flat out didn't > work. MDQS has no problem with that. Indeed, back before the barbarian invasion, we used to have queues for a variety of preprocessing. By the way, if anybody needs the Y2K-fix for MDQS let me know. Our system administrators destroyed my access to the FTP site, but I could mail you a patch. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 23 18:01:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 23 18:01:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11094 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Jun 2003 18:01:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11090 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 18:01:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 18:01:46 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C38FE19A9C; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 05:01:28 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AA78019A89 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 05:00:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19UN7z-0000JQ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:56:43 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EF3458D.123418ED@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <8d6610c1704160db2574f117e9bc17e7@plan9.bell-labs.com>, <200306172128.h5HLS4502667@augusta.math.psu.edu>, Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 08:56:31 GMT Ralph Corderoy wrote: > Maybe that's why he refers to it as `Plan Nine'; perhaps he's hoping > for `Plan Gnine'. That's Gnot funny! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 23 18:02:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 23 18:02:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11107 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Jun 2003 18:02:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11100 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 18:02:04 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 18:02:04 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D5DF19AA3; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 05:01:40 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA57B19A8A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 05:00:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19UN9Z-0000Ml-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:58:21 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EF364EE.1357450A@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , <11085765386d7572968a06a2ee05f689@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 08:57:55 GMT David Presotto wrote: > We apologize for letting the code out with a license that obligates > the receiver in any way. I promise that with comments like this its > not likely ever to happen again. Oh, come on! You can't let a never-satisfied malcontent dictate what your policy should be. There are many other satisfied customers. It's hard to consider somebody who wants a handout without providing anything in return a customer at all. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 23 18:02:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 23 18:02:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11120 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Jun 2003 18:02:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11115 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 18:02:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 18:02:36 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 845D319AA9; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 05:01:51 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F0B9619999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 05:00:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19UN9a-0000Mr-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:58:22 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EF34839.95879B3D@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <010a01c3368f$3f157560$e3944251@insultant.net>, Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 08:58:12 GMT ron minnich wrote: > It's not that much fun in jail I hear. Especially when one has done nothing to deserve being sent there. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 23 18:03:09 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 23 18:03:09 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11158 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Jun 2003 18:03:09 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11154 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 18:03:08 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 18:03:08 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E920319A9E; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 05:02:02 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E1F1119A89 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 05:00:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19UN94-0000Li-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:57:50 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EF35093.A9E774FF@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20030620190617.B2250@cackle.proxima.alt.za>, Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 08:57:43 GMT Jim Choate wrote: > What we see from Lucent is typical corporate psychology. They're afraid to > let one iota more go than necessary to make a profit. It's hard to take > any argument or claim based on 'justify a trust' when the only issue at > hand is profit. > Get real. You should take your own advice and "get real". It has been quite evident that Lucent doesn't expect to make a profit from Plan 9 as such. But in the real world, potential litigation is an important concern. Nobody, corporation or otherwise, should be expected to do good deeds with the expectation of getting screwed for doing so. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 23 18:03:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 23 18:03:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11180 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Jun 2003 18:03:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11176 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 18:03:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 18:03:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E1C3819B67; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 05:02:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F3F0E19A8A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 05:00:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19UN8X-0000KY-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:57:17 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EF34902.F018213@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20030620212802.172f89ba.apurva@gmx.net>, <9c6a34ac3b58fefad07e6e8255f0f7bf@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] panic exeption/interrupt 14 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 08:57:08 GMT Russ Cox wrote: > I was just telling you the partition type > because many fdisk variants don't know > about Plan 9 partitions. VCOM's System Commander thinks they're THEOS filesystems. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 23 18:16:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 23 18:16:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11599 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Jun 2003 18:16:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11595 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 18:16:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 18:16:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AD17019A96; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 05:16:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 06B3819A91 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 05:15:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19UNF4-0000Uc-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:04:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Santanu Chatterjee Message-ID: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] Need some info Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:02:55 GMT Hello everybody, Just heard about Plan 9 a few days ago. When I found that it was created by the original UNIX creators, I just have to try it out. But after some browsing I found that Intel 810 integrated video driver is not supported. Also plan 9 seems have the GUI integrated into the OS unlike Linux. If that is the case, can I still install it on my computer ? Please help me out. I really do want to try it out. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 23 18:16:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 23 18:16:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11659 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Jun 2003 18:16:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11655 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 18:16:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 18:16:42 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C703819AAD; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 05:16:23 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0CF0219A6C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 05:15:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19UNF3-0000UQ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:04:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: bs Message-ID: <3EF36AEC.3030602@nospam.com> Organization: AT&T Broadband Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , <11085765386d7572968a06a2ee05f689@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: none!bs@uunet.uu.net List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:02:33 GMT David Presotto wrote: >>What we see from Lucent is typical corporate psychology. They're afraid to >>let one iota more go than necessary to make a profit. It's hard to take >>any argument or claim based on 'justify a trust' when the only issue at >>hand is profit. > > > We apologize for letting the code out with a license that obligates > the receiver in any way. I promise that with comments like this its > not likely ever to happen again. One can only satisfy some people all the time, all the people some time... I for one am happy with this license. It also proves that there is nothing really free. I am looking forward to a similar license for Inferno. Optimistically, with these two, a computing revolution might begin (again). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 23 18:17:03 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 23 18:17:03 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11678 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Jun 2003 18:17:02 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11674 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 18:17:02 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 18:17:02 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D8FD819A89; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 05:16:35 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0493D19A96 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 05:15:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19UNF4-0000UW-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:04:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Anthony Mandic Message-ID: <3EF3D279.A8402F@hotmail.com> Organization: Mandic Consulting Pty. Ltd. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <8d6610c1704160db2574f117e9bc17e7@plan9.bell-labs.com>, <200306172128.h5HLS4502667@augusta.math.psu.edu>, Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:02:43 GMT Ralph Corderoy wrote: > > Or that hell had frozen over. Just stick a gratuitous `g' in front of > > the name and see what RMS does. > > Maybe that's why he refers to it as `Plan Nine'; perhaps he's hoping > for `Plan Gnine'. I would have read it as gPlan 9. -am © 2003 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 23 19:11:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 23 19:11:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13463 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Jun 2003 19:11:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13459 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 19:11:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 19:11:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1812419A6C; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 06:11:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BCB3619A6C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 06:10:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8c372c23846de69ded92f10cf3783f4d@plan9.escet.urjc.es> From: Fco.J.Ballesteros To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Need some info In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-xtoarqzadhkrdxplehfdktrwwj" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:10:09 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-xtoarqzadhkrdxplehfdktrwwj Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The gui is separated from the os, and put in a different program called rio (although it's part of os if you consider that os != kernel). Regarding the 810, you can use vmware to run Plan 9. --upas-xtoarqzadhkrdxplehfdktrwwj Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Mon Jun 23 11:16:27 MDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AD17019A96; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 05:16:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 06B3819A91 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 05:15:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19UNF4-0000Uc-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:04:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Santanu Chatterjee Message-ID: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] Need some info Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:02:55 GMT Hello everybody, Just heard about Plan 9 a few days ago. When I found that it was created by the original UNIX creators, I just have to try it out. But after some browsing I found that Intel 810 integrated video driver is not supported. Also plan 9 seems have the GUI integrated into the OS unlike Linux. If that is the case, can I still install it on my computer ? Please help me out. I really do want to try it out. --upas-xtoarqzadhkrdxplehfdktrwwj-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 23 19:36:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 23 19:36:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14603 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Jun 2003 19:36:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14599 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 19:36:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 19:36:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 82EDB19A31; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 06:36:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C7E5119A8A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 06:35:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7c507c45132a212a9ae4444aa4ba2f53@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] big pull Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 06:35:14 -0400 The next pull will be a big one. Due to various changes in the C library, basically all the system binaries changed, so it seemed like a good time to sync up. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 23 19:57:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 23 19:57:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15213 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Jun 2003 19:57:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15209 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 19:57:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 19:57:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E79FC19A9D; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 06:57:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6482C19AA5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 06:56:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: Geoff Collyer From: geoff@collyer.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Need some info In-Reply-To: <8c372c23846de69ded92f10cf3783f4d@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 03:55:58 -0700 It looks to me like the i810 is supported: % grep 810 /lib/vgadb vid=0x8086 did=0x7121 # Intel 82810 vid=0x8086 did=0x7123 # Intel 82810-DC100 vid=0x8086 did=0x7125 # Intel 82810E % grep chipset /sys/src/cmd/aux/vga/i81x.c * Intel 81x chipset family. case 0x3577: /* Intel 830M chipset (experimental) */ % p /sys/src/9/pc/vgai81x.c [...] static Pcidev * i81xpcimatch(void) { Pcidev *p; p = nil; while((p = pcimatch(p, 0x8086, 0)) != nil){ switch(p->did){ default: continue; case 0x7121: case 0x7123: case 0x7125: case 0x1102: case 0x1112: case 0x1132: [...] From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 23 19:58:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 23 19:58:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15259 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Jun 2003 19:58:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15255 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 19:58:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 19:58:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2C66E19B6F; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 06:58:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0F1F019AB0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 06:57:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h5NAnFnp016960; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:49:22 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h5NAn9kx016959; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:49:09 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: Russ Cox Cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] big pull Message-ID: <20030623124903.Q2250@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: Russ Cox , 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <7c507c45132a212a9ae4444aa4ba2f53@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <7c507c45132a212a9ae4444aa4ba2f53@plan9.bell-labs.com>; from Russ Cox on Mon, Jun 23, 2003 at 06:35:14AM -0400 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:49:04 +0200 On Mon, Jun 23, 2003 at 06:35:14AM -0400, Russ Cox wrote: > > The next pull will be a big one. > Due to various changes in the C library, > basically all the system binaries changed, > so it seemed like a good time to sync up. > Russ, will you release a new ISO image at the same time, please? With a release identifier in it? I'm a little lost here with the number of versions that I have managed to accumulate, and a final issue would have a very salutary effect. My biggest problem, sadly, is that I don't seem to be able to bring the base system up to speed. After a pull update from a CD-ROM image I generated myself, a "diff -r" between the source and destination yields quite a lot of discrepancies :-( If one can't be sure of having a consistent system (which could be caused, of course by a number of anomalies, for example, I had an empty /sys/src/9/pc/apic.c on the Fossil server :-( then things get a bit rough. I'm not sure how one goes about sanity checking the system, but it would be good if replica had a tool to do something of a check. Hm, maybe it does, but not explicitly. I'm a lazy person and fail to see things that are not spelled out to me. ++L PS: And thanks to you and all the team contributors for your efforts and all the benefit you have bestowed on us. To paraphrase a trite cinema character: "We're not worthy!" PPS: I meant to ask you this a while back, but keep treating it as not important enough to warrant a separate mail message: where is the U9FS source that has been released separately? Is a link to it from the Plan 9 pages not perhaps warranted? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 23 20:05:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 23 20:05:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15371 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Jun 2003 20:05:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15367 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 20:05:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 20:05:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6F21419AB3; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 07:05:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D90819A97 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 07:04:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h5NAuKnp016990; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:56:28 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h5NAuD7F016989; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:56:13 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: Russ Cox , 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] big pull Message-ID: <20030623125610.R2250@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: Russ Cox , 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <7c507c45132a212a9ae4444aa4ba2f53@plan9.bell-labs.com> <20030623124903.Q2250@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <20030623124903.Q2250@cackle.proxima.alt.za>; from Lucio De Re on Mon, Jun 23, 2003 at 12:49:04PM +0200 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:56:11 +0200 On Mon, Jun 23, 2003 at 12:49:04PM +0200, Lucio De Re wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 23, 2003 at 06:35:14AM -0400, Russ Cox wrote: > > > > The next pull will be a big one. > > Due to various changes in the C library, > > basically all the system binaries changed, > > so it seemed like a good time to sync up. > > > Russ, > Ah, well, I guess I didn't embarrass myself, or Russ, excessively! ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 23 20:24:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 23 20:24:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15985 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Jun 2003 20:24:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15981 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 20:24:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 20:24:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8A8F519AA8; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 07:24:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id ADBB719A97 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 07:23:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 41280 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 11:22:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO proweb.co.uk) (192.168.1.100) by juice.thebigchoice.com with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 11:22:58 -0000 Message-ID: <3EF6E312.3000506@proweb.co.uk> From: matt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license References: , <11085765386d7572968a06a2ee05f689@plan9.bell-labs.com> <3EF36AEC.3030602@nospam.com> In-Reply-To: <3EF36AEC.3030602@nospam.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:22:58 +0100 > > I for one am happy with this license. It also proves that there is > nothing really free. I am looking forward to a similar license for > Inferno. > > Optimistically, with these two, a computing revolution might begin > (again). There is already movement in this direction from Inferno with a new licensing scheme in the pipeline for the forthcoming 4th edition http://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/4thedoverview.html http://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/4e/licence.html The best way to help plan9 or inferno is to buy a copy. Spend some time learning about it and share whatever little nuggets of brilliance you find with the world. Every line of working source code that appears is eagerly awaited as we all walk in different directions. Use the source, Luke. etc. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 23 20:38:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 23 20:38:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16302 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Jun 2003 20:38:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16298 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 20:38:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 20:38:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E4BFE19B60; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 07:38:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-01.noos.net [212.198.2.70]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 69E1D19AC3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 07:37:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 25309471 invoked by uid 0); 23 Jun 2003 11:36:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.227]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.70 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 23 Jun 2003 11:36:53 -0000 Message-ID: <04ef01c3397b$bba7c1c0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3EF6E312.3000506@proweb.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: The new ridiculous license MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 13:36:48 +0200 > Every line of working source code that appears is eagerly > awaited as we all walk in different directions. sure, and you can use 'repo' as pointer to 'em if you like: http://www.insultant.net/repo since i got insultant.net re-hosted and more or less setup. maybe i should add a pointer to the wiki, but i'm not a huge fan of wiki's. i'd like to attack the boot from memory stick deal, but i have a few more pressing issues, like finding a job, donc une chose à la fois ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 23 22:58:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 23 22:58:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18622 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Jun 2003 22:58:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18618 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 22:58:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 22:58:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7DF5E19992; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:58:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from magnum.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1AEE919981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:57:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by magnum.cooper.edu id AA01999 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu); Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:02:41 -0400 From: Joel Salomon To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] big pull In-Reply-To: <7c507c45132a212a9ae4444aa4ba2f53@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:02:41 -0400 (EDT) On Mon, 23 Jun 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > Due to various changes in the C library, Were these changes anything interesting, or just bug fixes? --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 23 23:04:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 23 23:04:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18710 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Jun 2003 23:04:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18706 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 23:04:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 23:04:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4CF3D19A04; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:04:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-02.noos.net [212.198.2.71]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B7E61199A3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:03:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 6066119 invoked by uid 0); 23 Jun 2003 14:03:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.227]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.71 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 23 Jun 2003 14:03:06 -0000 Message-ID: <057001c33990$28aff580$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] big pull MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:03:01 +0200 > Were these changes anything interesting, or just bug fixes? i'm pretty sure they incorporated the *BSD trees into plan 9, but i could be wrong ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 23 23:16:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 23 23:16:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18925 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Jun 2003 23:16:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18921 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 23:16:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 23:16:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE4F319A25; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:16:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from magnum.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0FDD219A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:15:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by magnum.cooper.edu id AA02904 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu); Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:20:30 -0400 From: Joel Salomon To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] big pull In-Reply-To: <057001c33990$28aff580$e3944251@insultant.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:20:29 -0400 (EDT) > > Were these changes anything interesting, or just bug fixes? > > i'm pretty sure they incorporated the *BSD trees into plan 9, > but i could be wrong ... > If you're suggesting what I think you are, I sincerely hope so ;-) --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 23 23:46:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 23 23:46:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19491 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Jun 2003 23:46:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19487 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 23:46:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 23:46:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E621E19A28; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:46:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from edoras.nas.com (edoras.nas.com [206.63.100.8]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A50F2199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:45:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nas.com (unknown [164.116.190.46]) by edoras.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F36C1EB7C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 07:45:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3EF7127D.3070108@nas.com> From: Jack Johnson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4b) Gecko/20030416 Thunderbird/0.1a X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license References: <8d6610c1704160db2574f117e9bc17e7@plan9.bell-labs.com>, <200306172128.h5HLS4502667@augusta.math.psu.edu>, <3EF3D279.A8402F@hotmail.com> In-Reply-To: <3EF3D279.A8402F@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 07:45:17 -0700 Anthony Mandic wrote: > I would have read it as gPlan 9. Actually, if you really want to be in the spirit, you have to give it a name that's completely impossible to find using a search engine, like "3". From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 00:20:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 00:20:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20538 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 00:20:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20534 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 00:20:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 00:20:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3630D19981; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 11:20:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8DE0819991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 11:19:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4ee3c0fd980620336a030664f0427dbc@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <200306200654.h5K6sq709001@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:22:54 +0100 > Well, in defense of the printers.... It *is* nice if they have some > way to tell you that they ran out of ink or had a paper jam or any of > the myriad of things that can go wrong in such a sensitive device with > so many moving parts. not to mention postscript errors... to be honest, when the spooler here seems to be playing up, i just fire up inferno and do: dial tcp!printerIP!12345 {cat file.ps} which nicely avoids the middle man. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 00:21:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 00:21:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20581 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 00:21:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20560 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 00:21:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 00:21:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9818419A70; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 11:21:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 7921C19981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 11:20:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 14489 invoked by uid 65534); 23 Jun 2003 15:19:57 -0000 Received: from PPP-219.65.6.159.mum1.vsnl.net.in (EHLO home.woodlands) (219.65.6.159) by mail.gmx.net (mp022) with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 17:19:57 +0200 From: Apurva Mehta To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] kernel panics.. Message-Id: <20030623205008.69de2d04.apurva@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: <20030622011730.0dbc1aad.apurva@gmx.net> References: <20030622011730.0dbc1aad.apurva@gmx.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.1 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 20:50:08 +0530 I fixed my kernel panic problem. It seems that Plan9 had a problem with booting from a non primary/master disk. All I had to do was switch the disk on which plan9 was installed to a primary master and it worked. It did not find the boot partition, but once I pointed it to the right direction, it booted into rio just fine. However, It still asks me the path to the boot partition everytime I boot up. I have modified my plan9.ini file and changed all occurences of sdC1 (The disk was connected to primary slave previously) to sdC0 but that has not worked. I tried reinstalling plan9 (I did not wipe the existing installation, however) but that has not helped either.. How do I point the loader to the correct boot partition? Thanks, - Apurva From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 01:17:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 01:17:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21539 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 01:17:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21535 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 01:17:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 01:17:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8D3E419A27; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:17:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id ADB3D199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:16:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 26779 invoked by uid 65534); 23 Jun 2003 16:16:45 -0000 Received: from PPP-219.65.15.27.mum1.vsnl.net.in (EHLO home.woodlands) (219.65.15.27) by mail.gmx.net (mp010) with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 18:16:45 +0200 From: Apurva Mehta To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] kernel panics.. Message-Id: <20030623214657.08685f3b.apurva@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: <20030623205008.69de2d04.apurva@gmx.net> References: <20030622011730.0dbc1aad.apurva@gmx.net> <20030623205008.69de2d04.apurva@gmx.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.1 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:46:57 +0530 On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 20:50:08 +0530 Apurva Mehta wrote: > However, It still asks me the path to the boot partition everytime I > boot up. I have modified my plan9.ini file and changed all > occurences of sdC1 (The disk was connected to primary slave > previously) to sdC0 but that has not worked. Never mind.. It was due to a typo in my plan9.ini file.. I wrote sdc0 instead of sdC0. - Apurva From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 02:21:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 02:21:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22364 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 02:21:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22360 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 02:21:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 02:21:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 538E219A6B; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 13:21:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 37FE919A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 13:20:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sdn-ap-022castocp0303.dialsprint.net ([65.178.97.49] helo=acm.org) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19UUzs-0005l0-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:20:53 -0700 Message-ID: <3EF73738.6090007@acm.org> From: "D. Brownlee" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; NetBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030618 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] kernel panics.. References: <20030622011730.0dbc1aad.apurva@gmx.net> <20030623205008.69de2d04.apurva@gmx.net> <20030623214657.08685f3b.apurva@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: <20030623214657.08685f3b.apurva@gmx.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:22:00 -0700 Apurva Mehta wrote: > Never mind.. It was due to a typo in my plan9.ini file.. I wrote sdc0 > instead of sdC0. > > - Apurva That used to bite me, too. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 02:31:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 02:31:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22512 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 02:31:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22508 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 02:31:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 02:31:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4F97319A84; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 13:31:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 79CBE19A67 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 13:30:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19UUuk-0002bt-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 18:15:34 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EF734A5.1DCCB687@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , <8c372c23846de69ded92f10cf3783f4d@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Subject: Re: [9fans] Need some info Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:15:02 GMT "Fco.J.Ballesteros" wrote: > Regarding the 810, you can use vmware to run Plan 9. Also, one can install a supported SVGA card. I've had good luck with NVIDIA GeForce II cards, which you should be able to find really cheap since they're not this year's model. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 02:48:07 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 02:48:07 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22615 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 02:47:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22611 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 02:47:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 02:47:46 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA0BB199F2; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 13:47:29 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F34D019A0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 13:45:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sdn-ap-022castocp0303.dialsprint.net ([65.178.97.49] helo=acm.org) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19UVNY-0006tl-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:45:20 -0700 Message-ID: <3EF73CF4.6070001@acm.org> From: "D. Brownlee" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; NetBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030618 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] PowerPC, usb, modem, etc. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:46:28 -0700 Recently, there was a post about new PowerPC ports. What's coming? Any for Apple hardware? If not, I may look into it, because there appears to be enough low-level software in NetBSD's 'macppc' port to make things easier. I have an ancient iMac here, too s-l-o-w for OS X, but runs NetBSD, diskless, alright. So, I have a USB modem. I need to read about usb support for Plan 9; I would like to use the usb modem with Plan 9 running on the i386 box. First I'll try running u9fs on the iMac to see whether it can serve the modem. Any suggestions/comments would be helpful. By the way, on the Plan 9 i386 box I: ftpfs iMac cd /n/ftp cd somewhere #where there are alot of big ones like plan9.iso file * This creates alot of activity (gives 'stats' something to do, anyway), and it is interesting that the numbers in the stats window are, in decreasing order: intr, syscall, context, ether Is that meaningful? Despite all that activity, I can still render PostScript quickly in another window: man -t plan9.ini | page -w Concerning plan9.ini: I want to experiment with my vga settings, but if I get them wrong, the monitor just displays something like "hsync out of range." Is there any way that I can drop into terminal mode at that point in order to edit plan9.ini and reboot. Will ^t^tr halt the filesystem? If there is no way to get a terminal prompt, I could boot another OS and edit plan9.ini from there. Regards, Don Brownlee From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 03:01:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 03:01:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22760 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 03:01:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22756 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 03:01:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 03:01:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2B85719A87; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:01:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0443219A40 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:00:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5NHxteH016637 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:00:00 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5NHxnMe016633 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 11:59:55 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] PowerPC, usb, modem, etc. In-Reply-To: <3EF73CF4.6070001@acm.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 11:59:49 -0600 (MDT) > Concerning plan9.ini: I want to experiment with my vga settings, > but if I get them wrong, the monitor just displays something > like "hsync out of range." Is there any way that I can drop > into terminal mode at that point in order to edit plan9.ini > and reboot. Will ^t^tr halt the filesystem? If there is no > way to get a terminal prompt, I could boot another OS and > edit plan9.ini from there. > you actually have rio running on the system, but you just can't see it. there are several things you can do: - ssh to the system (if it's a cpu server at least) - get a serial console running - cpu to the system from a remote machine i used to (pretty sure other people did too) just start X on the same monitor and get the hsync/vsync values from xvidtune. once set i've never had to change them. i see now that one of those still remains in /lib/vgadb -- # from aam396@mail.usask.ca andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 03:07:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 03:07:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22849 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 03:07:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22845 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 03:07:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 03:07:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0EF7719A93; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:07:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6043219A8A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:06:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sdn-ap-022castocp0303.dialsprint.net ([65.178.97.49] helo=acm.org) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19UViM-0003Rw-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 11:06:50 -0700 Message-ID: <3EF741FD.4030209@acm.org> From: "D. Brownlee" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; NetBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030618 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] PowerPC, usb, modem, etc. References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 11:07:57 -0700 andrey mirtchovski wrote: >>Concerning plan9.ini: I want to experiment with my vga settings, >>but if I get them wrong, the monitor just displays something >>like "hsync out of range." Is there any way that I can drop >>into terminal mode at that point in order to edit plan9.ini >>and reboot. Will ^t^tr halt the filesystem? If there is no >>way to get a terminal prompt, I could boot another OS and >>edit plan9.ini from there. >> > > > you actually have rio running on the system, but you just can't see it. > > there are several things you can do: > > - ssh to the system (if it's a cpu server at least) > - get a serial console running > - cpu to the system from a remote machine > > i used to (pretty sure other people did too) just start X on the same > monitor and get the hsync/vsync values from xvidtune. once set i've never > had to change them. > > i see now that one of those still remains in /lib/vgadb -- > > # from aam396@mail.usask.ca > > andrey > > Thanks. I'll try xvidtune. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 03:43:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 03:43:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23381 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 03:43:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23377 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 03:43:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 03:43:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D87DE19A64; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:43:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2D77E19A2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:42:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 26965 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 18:42:55 -0000 Received: from roke.cse.psu.edu (HELO bio.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.12.14) by galapagos.cse.psu.edu with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 18:42:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 2736 invoked by uid 991); 23 Jun 2003 18:42:54 -0000 Message-ID: <20030623184254.2735.qmail@f.bio.cse.psu.edu> From: "Scott Schwartz" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] execute bits Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 23 Jun 2003 14:42:54 -0400 I recently noticed that the system is willing to run a file even if it doesn't have the execute bits set. Did it always do that? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 04:17:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 04:17:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23841 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 04:17:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23837 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 04:17:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 04:17:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9B27219A2C; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:17:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B138199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:16:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5NJGVeH016764 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 13:16:31 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5NJGVL4016760 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 13:16:31 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] factor.c bug (+ fix) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 13:16:31 -0600 (MDT) factor.c crashes (in _floatfmt) when given a sufficiently large number. i've added a check similar to the one in primes.c that fixed the problem: plan9% diff factor.c /sys/src/cmd/factor.c 7,8d6 < double big = 9.007199254740992e15; < 45,48d42 < if(n > big) { < print("error: number too big\n"); < break; < } plan9% that makes the program rather noisy, so it may be a good idea to exits("number too big") instead of print()-ing the error message (the program exits silently when given negative numbers, for example). andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 04:45:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 04:45:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24179 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 04:45:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24175 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 04:45:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 04:45:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3636A19999; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:45:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from magnum.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id DC92C199A3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:44:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from robin.cooper.edu by magnum.cooper.edu with SMTP id AA19401 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>); Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:49:44 -0400 Received: from localhost by robin.cooper.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA11890; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:44:52 -0400 From: Joel Salomon To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] execute bits In-Reply-To: <20030623184254.2735.qmail@f.bio.cse.psu.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:44:52 -0400 (EDT) > I recently noticed that the system is willing to run a file even if it > doesn't have the execute bits set. Did it always do that? > > 'disk/kfscmd allow' will do that, I've noticed. --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 06:02:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 06:02:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25459 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 06:02:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25455 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 06:02:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 06:02:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8081C199A3; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:02:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 5E013199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:01:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 37524 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 21:01:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO proweb.co.uk) (192.168.1.100) by juice.thebigchoice.com with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 21:01:29 -0000 Message-ID: <3EF76AA9.2030207@proweb.co.uk> From: matt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Need some info References: , <8c372c23846de69ded92f10cf3783f4d@plan9.escet.urjc.es> <3EF734A5.1DCCB687@null.net> In-Reply-To: <3EF734A5.1DCCB687@null.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:01:29 +0100 Douglas A. Gwyn wrote: >"Fco.J.Ballesteros" wrote: > > >>Regarding the 810, you can use vmware to run Plan 9. >> >> > >Also, one can install a supported SVGA card. I've had good luck >with NVIDIA GeForce II cards, which you should be able to find >really cheap since they're not this year's model. > > it should costs $15 at the most for compatible plan9 hardware vga + nic + optional SCSI people give away Trident 8900Cs + ISA SCSI Cards From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 06:36:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 06:36:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25841 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 06:36:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25837 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 06:36:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 06:36:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7BCEE19A8A; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:36:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0718019A19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:35:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp ([61.211.130.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 06:34:40 JST 2003 Subject: Re: [9fans] execute bits Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <7EA4C773-A5C2-11D7-B59D-000393A941BC@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 06:34:39 +0900 Hello, > >> I recently noticed that the system is willing to run a file even if it >> doesn't have the execute bits set. Did it always do that? >> >> > 'disk/kfscmd allow' will do that, I've noticed. Yes, but that is troublesome. I think that should be fixed. Kenji Arisawa From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 06:42:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 06:42:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25903 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 06:42:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25899 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 06:42:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 06:42:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 654E119A67; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:42:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E357919A0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:41:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5NLfReH017001 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:41:27 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5NLfRiu016997 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:41:27 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] execute bits In-Reply-To: <7EA4C773-A5C2-11D7-B59D-000393A941BC@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:41:27 -0600 (MDT) On Tue, 24 Jun 2003, Kenji Arisawa wrote: > Yes, but that is troublesome. I think that should be fixed. > the whole idea of disk/kfscmd allow is that no permission bits are checked, including execution bits. one should avoid having the system in an 'allowed' state as much as possible. as I understand it, the fix is to do disk/kfscmd disallow :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 06:54:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 06:54:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26021 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 06:54:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26017 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 06:54:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 06:54:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BCABF19A90; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:54:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 40C24199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:53:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp ([61.211.130.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 06:53:40 JST 2003 Subject: Re: [9fans] execute bits Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <261F33A4-A5C5-11D7-B59D-000393A941BC@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 06:53:39 +0900 Hello, > the whole idea of disk/kfscmd allow is that no permission bits are > checked, > including execution bits. Then test -x file script does not work properly. It might cause problem. Kenji Arisawa From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 07:19:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 07:19:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26282 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 07:19:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26278 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 07:19:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 07:19:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A203419A8B; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 18:19:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id F0CD119A0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 18:18:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 28718 invoked by uid 991); 23 Jun 2003 22:18:08 -0000 Message-ID: <20030623221808.28717.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] execute bits In-Reply-To: Message from andrey mirtchovski of "Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:41:27 MDT." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 18:18:08 -0400 | one should avoid having the system in an 'allowed' state as much as | possible. Yes, but when a really big update is being pull-ed, it might be in that state for a while. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 07:24:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 07:24:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26375 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 07:24:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26371 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 07:24:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 07:24:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1898B19A94; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 18:24:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 65C4719A0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 18:23:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5NMMreH017102 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:22:53 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5NMMrio017098 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:22:53 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] execute bits In-Reply-To: <20030623221808.28717.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:22:53 -0600 (MDT) i've solved this by adding the user that does updates (i.e. me) to a special group of users which have write permission over /src and /386... it's a bit more complicated than that and is definitely not easier than doing a disk/kfscmd allow, but ti avoids having the system in an unprotected state. the idea i got from /adm/users on sources.cs.bell-labs... andrey On Mon, 23 Jun 2003, Scott Schwartz wrote: > | one should avoid having the system in an 'allowed' state as much as > | possible. > > Yes, but when a really big update is being pull-ed, it might > be in that state for a while. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 08:05:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 08:05:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26863 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 08:05:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26859 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 08:05:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 08:05:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8A08E19A26; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:05:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 099EB19A0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:04:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5NN4eeH017169 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:04:40 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5NN4eZU017165 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:04:40 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] venti/fmtarenas approximate duration? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:04:40 -0600 (MDT) what's the normal duration for venti/fmtarenas? i am running it on a 60gb arenas partition (created with "disk/prep -n arenas -n isect" -- very useful options!) and it's taking the better part of three hours already (2.6ghz pentium4). stats reports ~7000 interrupts per second, 96% of the time spent in interrupts. andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 08:15:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 08:15:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27089 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 08:15:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27085 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 08:15:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 08:15:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A2FE619991; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:15:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 486D5199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:14:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5a574ce77f5eb38e4c2303b85aa6c295@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti/fmtarenas approximate duration? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:14:15 -0400 echo dma on >/dev/sdC0/ctl From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 09:18:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 09:18:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28350 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 09:18:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28310 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 09:18:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 09:18:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C457E19A19; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 20:18:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EFAD519A91 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 20:17:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp ([61.211.130.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 09:17:07 JST 2003 Subject: Re: [9fans] execute bits Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <309DD714-A5D9-11D7-B59D-000393A941BC@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:17:07 +0900 Hello, >i've solved this by adding the user that does updates (i.e. me) to a special >group of users which have write permission over /src and /386... nemo has a similar idea. You will find in /n/sources/nemo/readme: - change to fossil: include "fsys nnn allow -PW uid" and "who" commands. Kenji Arisawa From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 10:11:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 10:11:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30797 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 10:11:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30793 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 10:11:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 10:11:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BF70F19A0C; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:11:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D9C34199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:10:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5O1ATeH017372 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:10:29 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5O1ATW2017368 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:10:29 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti/fmtarenas approximate duration? In-Reply-To: <5a574ce77f5eb38e4c2303b85aa6c295@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:10:29 -0600 (MDT) On Mon, 23 Jun 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > echo dma on >/dev/sdC0/ctl > that didn't make any difference, however doing: echo 'rmw on' > /dev/sdC0/ctl caused the interrupts to drop significantly (from ~7000 to ~1000) and the load to increase somewhat substantially (though still not maxed out)... honestly, i can't predict whether that's going to decrease or increase the time it takes to complete the command. from other sources i understand that venti/fmtarenas has been observed to take the better part of a night to complete :) how are you solving this for the future plan9 install disk, which will have the option to choose between kfs and fossil? andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 10:33:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 10:33:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31788 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 10:33:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31783 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 10:33:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 10:33:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C74AE19A97; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:33:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 77A37199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:32:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <46b098f7fef816cc34df8875c2a16dea@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti/fmtarenas approximate duration? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-uqbpnfdlvvavfaghljwlzosuat" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:31:58 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-uqbpnfdlvvavfaghljwlzosuat Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i did a fmtarenas on a 500GB raid last week, it took over 6 hours at about 22MB/s. what is the output of the 'pci' command? it really sounds like you don't have dma on. --upas-uqbpnfdlvvavfaghljwlzosuat Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Jun 23 21:11:24 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Mon Jun 23 21:11:22 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6F3D419A08; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:11:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D9C34199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:10:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5O1ATeH017372 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:10:29 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5O1ATW2017368 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:10:29 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti/fmtarenas approximate duration? In-Reply-To: <5a574ce77f5eb38e4c2303b85aa6c295@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:10:29 -0600 (MDT) On Mon, 23 Jun 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > echo dma on >/dev/sdC0/ctl > that didn't make any difference, however doing: echo 'rmw on' > /dev/sdC0/ctl caused the interrupts to drop significantly (from ~7000 to ~1000) and the load to increase somewhat substantially (though still not maxed out)... honestly, i can't predict whether that's going to decrease or increase the time it takes to complete the command. from other sources i understand that venti/fmtarenas has been observed to take the better part of a night to complete :) how are you solving this for the future plan9 install disk, which will have the option to choose between kfs and fossil? andrey --upas-uqbpnfdlvvavfaghljwlzosuat-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 10:43:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 10:43:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32211 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 10:43:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32207 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 10:43:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 10:43:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2F51219AA4; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:43:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 91D79199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:42:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5O1gYeH017393 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:42:34 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5O1gYSS017389 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:42:34 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti/fmtarenas approximate duration? In-Reply-To: <46b098f7fef816cc34df8875c2a16dea@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:42:34 -0600 (MDT) On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > i did a fmtarenas on a 500GB raid last week, it took over > 6 hours at about 22MB/s. > > what is the output of the 'pci' command? it really sounds like > you don't have dma on. the disk with the arenas is sdD0 (i converted the commands to sdC0 before posting to the list). i've ran 'echo dma on' on both disks, and 'echo rmw on' on the second one only... # pci 0.0.0: 06.00.00 8086/2578 0 0.1.0: 06.04.00 8086/2579 0 0.29.0: 0c.03.00 8086/24d2 11 4:0000ef01 32 0.29.1: 0c.03.00 8086/24d4 10 4:0000ef21 32 0.29.2: 0c.03.00 8086/24d7 5 4:0000ef41 32 0.29.3: 0c.03.00 8086/24de 11 4:0000ef81 32 0.29.7: 0c.03.20 8086/24dd 10 0:f7fffc00 1024 0.30.0: 06.04.00 8086/244e 0 0.31.0: 06.01.00 8086/24d0 0 0.31.1: 01.01.8a 8086/24db 0 0:00000001 16 1:00000001 16 2:00000001 16 3:00000001 16 4:0000fc01 16 5:00000000 1024 0.31.3: 0c.05.00 8086/24d3 5 4:00000401 32 0.31.5: 04.01.00 8086/24d5 5 0:0000e801 256 1:0000ee81 64 2:f7fff800 512 3:f7fff400 256 2.11.0: 03.00.00 5333/8a01 10 0:f0000000 67108864 2.13.0: 02.00.00 1186/1300 5 0:0000d401 256 1:f7eef400 256 2.3.0: 0c.00.10 1106/3044 5 0:f7eef800 2048 1:0000dc01 128 2.5.0: 02.00.00 10b7/1700 5 0:f7ee8000 16384 1:0000d801 256 # # cat /dev/sdC0/ctl inquiry Maxtor 6Y080L0 config 0040 capabilities 2F00 dma 00550020 dmactl 00000000 rwm 16 rwmctl 0 geometry 160086528 512 16383 16 63 part data 0 160086528 part plan9 63 160071660 part 9fat 63 20545 part fs 20545 159445204 part swap 159445204 160071659 part nvram 160071659 160071660 # # cat /dev/sdD0/ctl inquiry Maxtor 6Y080L0 config 0040 capabilities 2F00 dma 00550020 dmactl 00000000 rwm 16 rwmctl 16 geometry 160086528 512 16383 16 63 part data 0 160086528 part plan9 63 160071660 part 9fat 63 204863 part nvram 204863 204864 part fossil 204864 25783551 part arenas 25783551 153676988 part isect 153676988 160071660 # From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 10:55:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 10:55:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32729 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 10:55:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32722 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 10:55:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 10:55:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 287AD19A9A; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:55:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0E12919A95 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:54:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti/fmtarenas approximate duration? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:54:49 -0400 try adding case (0x24DB<<16)|0x8086: /* 82801EB (ICH5) */ to the switch in /sys/src/9/pc/sdata.c:atapnp(), then try doing the echo dma on >/dev/sd[CD][01]/ctl after you have done some i/o, the config line when catting the dev ctl file should have something other than 0 in the dmactl field. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 11:26:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 11:26:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1681 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 11:26:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1674 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 11:26:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 11:26:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 07C8119AA6; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:26:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 690C619A95 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:25:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5O2PceH017488 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 20:25:38 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5O2PcGX017484 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 20:25:38 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti/fmtarenas approximate duration? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 20:25:37 -0600 (MDT) we'll have to wait until tomorrow for the results -- i did a 'disk/kfscmd halt' and now i can't 'echo reboot > /dev/reboot' anymore. i'm not at the machine, so i guess i'm stuck... andrey ps: i added it to the bottom of the switch statement, where the other 0x8086's are... On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > try adding > > case (0x24DB<<16)|0x8086: /* 82801EB (ICH5) */ > > to the switch in /sys/src/9/pc/sdata.c:atapnp(), then try > doing the > > echo dma on >/dev/sd[CD][01]/ctl > > after you have done some i/o, the config line when catting > the dev ctl file should have something other than 0 in the > dmactl field. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 11:41:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 11:41:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2286 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 11:41:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2282 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 11:41:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 11:41:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C441519A08; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:41:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D3286199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:40:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Jun 23 22:40:36 EDT 2003 Received: from 209.23.14.53 ([209.23.14.53]) by plan9; Mon Jun 23 22:40:33 EDT 2003 Message-ID: From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] big pull In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:18:35 -0400 > Were these changes anything interesting, or just bug fixes? no, i just lost track of why various things had changed. probably libfmt. it's always libfmt. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 11:41:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 11:41:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2302 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 11:41:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2298 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 11:41:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 11:41:42 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5DCF8199B3; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:41:27 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 126C619A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:40:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Jun 23 22:40:42 EDT 2003 Received: from 209.23.14.53 ([209.23.14.53]) by plan9; Mon Jun 23 22:40:39 EDT 2003 Message-ID: From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] big pull In-Reply-To: <20030623124903.Q2250@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:20:31 -0400 Wait a day or two and then download the "Sources Snapshot" from the updates page, which gets updated nightly (by 6am EST). The u9fs distribution is also on the updates page. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 11:41:55 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 11:41:55 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2323 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 11:41:55 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2319 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 11:41:55 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 11:41:55 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0AB8319AB4; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:41:39 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D57D719A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:40:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Jun 23 22:40:48 EDT 2003 Received: from 209.23.14.53 ([209.23.14.53]) by plan9; Mon Jun 23 22:40:45 EDT 2003 Message-ID: From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Need some info In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:21:01 -0400 The i810 is only supported on laptops. We don't have any code to drive the clock chips on real CRTs. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 12:05:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 12:05:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3393 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 12:05:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3389 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 12:05:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 12:05:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D24FA19AA5; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 23:05:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7533D199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 23:04:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <392b82611daf1698ca50b72159b07036@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Need some info From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:04:21 +0900 > The i810 is only supported on laptops. > We don't have any code to drive the clock > chips on real CRTs. It works for i810-DC100 with 640x480x8/16 for my CRT at home. It has no code for higher resolutions though. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 12:06:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 12:06:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3475 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 12:06:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3471 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 12:06:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 12:06:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AB38F19AAF; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 23:06:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 04E92199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 23:05:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <181301dcf36a67713cc40429806a95d5@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] big pull From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:05:41 +0900 >> Were these changes anything interesting, or just bug fixes? > > no, i just lost track of why various things had changed. > probably libfmt. it's always libfmt. I've been happy with the last (end of May or June) libfmt... Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 13:11:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 13:11:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6202 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 13:11:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6198 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 13:11:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 13:11:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AD35A19A99; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 00:11:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E251619A75 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 00:10:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sdn-ap-023castocp0260.dialsprint.net ([65.178.105.6] helo=acm.org) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19Uf8G-0006GT-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:10:12 -0700 Message-ID: <3EF7C156.303@acm.org> From: "D. Brownlee" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030529 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] ide master/slave Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 20:11:18 -0700 Over the weekend I installed a recent distribution. I installed it on a 'c:' drive partition and had the install get plan9.iso from a dos partition on the 'd:' drive. Or so I thought. Today I was looking for something and couldn't find it: $term c: ; ls /n/c: plan9.iso $term What? But I installed on 'c:'; "ls /n/c:" showed what is on 'd:' So, I am on Win2k, another partition of the 'c:' drive, and win2k indicates that the drive where the .iso is located is 'e:' (it indicates 'd:' is the cdrom drive). OK. The trouble may lie in '/rc/bin/c:' From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 13:44:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 13:44:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7986 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 13:44:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7981 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 13:44:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 13:44:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ADD2619AAE; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 00:44:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4489C19A75 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 00:43:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sdn-ap-022castocp0370.dialsprint.net ([65.178.97.116] helo=acm.org) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19UfeL-0000tQ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:43:21 -0700 Message-ID: <3EF7D72B.3060700@acm.org> From: "D. Brownlee" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; NetBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030618 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ide master/slave References: <3EF7C156.303@acm.org> In-Reply-To: <3EF7C156.303@acm.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:44:27 -0700 D. Brownlee wrote: > > The trouble may lie in '/rc/bin/c:' > Whoops! That script looks for a dos partition; I don't have a dos partition on 'c:'; I have one on 'd:' From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 16:26:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 16:26:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15857 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 16:26:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15853 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 16:26:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 16:26:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4B7A919AB5; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 03:26:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A1976199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 03:25:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6a814aa4c22f8f63fc33bbc9e252e8ce@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] execute bits From: Fco.J.Ballesteros From: nemo@plan9.escet.urjc.es In-Reply-To: <20030623221808.28717.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:25:46 +0200 > Yes, but when a really big update is being pull-ed, it might > be in that state for a while. just allow a single user instead of the whole server. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 17:46:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 17:46:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19001 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 17:46:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18997 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 17:46:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 17:46:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C704B19ABB; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 04:46:20 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A34BD19AAA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 04:45:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19UjDC-0003Tk-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:31:34 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Michael Soibelman Message-ID: Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Subject: [9fans] I think I'll try this Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 08:31:03 GMT I've been keeping an eye on this (Plan9) for a while now hoping to see it take off. Well, with the recent CRAP from SCO I decided it might be a good time to give it a whirl....I hope it will run on my hardware but I'm not sure....I've looked at the supported hardware list and not much of my hardware is listed..Does anyone have a similar hardware package? 1. Supermicro S2DG2 motherboard (Dual slot2 Xeons) 2. Sony G420 Multiscan 3. GeForce 4 +128MB 4. Onboard Adaptec AIC 7896 SCSI controller I've downloaded the ISO and am going to make room for an install this week. By Friday night I'll try it if I hear from you guys about the hardware? Thanks. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 22:42:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 22:42:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26384 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 22:42:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26380 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 22:42:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 22:42:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AB6BB19A8F; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:42:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 33BD719A8F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:41:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5ODf5eH018135 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 07:41:05 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5ODf56O018131 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 07:41:05 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm strangeness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 07:41:05 -0600 (MDT) On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > No writing or reading from disk was involved (writing same file to kfs > instead of /dev/null or ramfs caused the transfer speed to drop down to > 10-20mbit/s, but that's not an issue). > bah! i take that back! with dma on i can transfer between linux and plan9 (writing to kfs) at 90+mbits/s on a 100baseT connection... feels like i've been asleep for three years and just woke up -- i see the light! i urge you to turn dma/rwm on. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 22:46:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 22:46:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26485 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 22:46:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26481 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 22:46:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 22:46:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 56D2919AB0; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:46:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F06C019A91 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:45:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h5ODjU58012015 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 07:45:30 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h5ODjT9P011249 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 07:45:29 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm strangeness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 07:45:29 -0600 (MDT) On Tue, 24 Jun 2003, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > i urge you to turn dma/rwm on. This seems like something that just "ought to be" on. Why would it not be? ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 22:51:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 22:51:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26619 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 22:51:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26615 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 22:51:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 22:51:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3EE2C19AB8; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:51:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 318CD19AB2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:50:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5ODoIeH018152 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 07:50:18 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5ODoIDw018148 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 07:50:18 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm strangeness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 07:50:18 -0600 (MDT) On Tue, 24 Jun 2003, ron minnich wrote: > > This seems like something that just "ought to be" on. Why would it not be? > there must be a reason -- otherwise why would they put it in the bugs section of the sd man page? from http://plan9.bell-labs.com/magic/man2html?man=sd§=3 ATA(PI) units come up with DMA and multi-sector read/write capability disabled. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 22:54:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 22:54:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26669 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 22:54:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26665 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 22:54:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 22:54:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C505F19ABD; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:54:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [64.71.129.86]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E2AB2199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:53:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id BDC8E66B2A; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 06:53:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ports ... Message-ID: <20030624135303.GX7193@cassie.foobarbaz.net> References: <20030605045955.GC73958@cassie.foobarbaz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 06:53:03 -0700 On Thu, Jun 05, 2003 at 09:18:21AM -0400, David Presotto wrote: > It would be work to move to 64 bit pointers. Not infinite > though. The reliance is more on ulong and pointer being > the same size. If they're both 64 bits, it'll be pretty > easy. The truly hard part is changing the compiler and > debugging it afterwards. If you have to simultaneously > rewrite a compiler and do a port, its much easier to have > multiple people. Taking a break from coding something else, I did a tiny bit of research. All of amd64, alpha, and sparc64 have ulong and pointer being 64-bit on all the platforms I surveyed. That would make the part about reliance on ulong and pointer being 64-bit a non-issue. Of course, there are the other hurdles... :) -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 23:19:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 23:19:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27460 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 23:19:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27456 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 23:19:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 23:19:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0E01F19AB9; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:19:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-07.noos.net [212.198.2.76]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 90984199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:18:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 9028673 invoked by uid 0); 24 Jun 2003 14:17:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.227]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.76 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 24 Jun 2003 14:17:58 -0000 Message-ID: <002101c33a5b$696b9900$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030605045955.GC73958@cassie.foobarbaz.net> <20030624135303.GX7193@cassie.foobarbaz.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] ports ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:17:57 +0200 > All of amd64, alpha, and sparc64 have ulong and pointer > being 64-bit on all the platforms I surveyed. yes, i remember yelling at CRL about making long being 64 bits on the alpha and int being 32 bits. AS-irc int was intended to map straight onto the machine's word size. obviously, i'm talking about the compiler. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 23:19:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 23:19:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27468 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 23:19:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27464 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 23:19:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 23:19:45 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 72C42199E3; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:19:30 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-04.noos.net [212.198.2.73]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C7EB319A91 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:18:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 14587766 invoked by uid 0); 24 Jun 2003 14:14:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.227]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.73 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 24 Jun 2003 14:14:18 -0000 Message-ID: <001b01c33a5a$e6bb2d40$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm strangeness MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:14:18 +0200 > ATA(PI) units come up with DMA and multi-sector read/write capability > disabled. gawd, give me a massbus rm03 anyday. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 23:37:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 23:37:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27815 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 23:37:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27811 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 23:37:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 23:37:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8436119AA7; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:37:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3ACBD19988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:36:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37008ea12e2342f5883967e918beebf0@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti/fmtarenas approximate duration? From: Sape Mullender In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:36:17 -0400 > what's the normal duration for venti/fmtarenas? > > i am running it on a 60gb arenas partition (created with "disk/prep -n arenas > -n isect" -- very useful options!) and it's taking the better part of three > hours already (2.6ghz pentium4). > > stats reports ~7000 interrupts per second, 96% of the time spent in > interrupts. echo dma on >/dev/sdCx/ctl will help a lot. Having said that, the initial snapshot of a 35 GB file system still took 40 hours (but everything -- fossil, arenas, index -- was on one disk (a temporary necessity to free up disk space elsewhere)). Sape From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 23:42:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 23:42:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27941 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 23:42:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27937 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 23:42:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 23:42:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2CFA619AC2; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:42:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id DF5B719AB2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:41:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 18879 invoked by uid 65534); 24 Jun 2003 14:40:57 -0000 Received: from PPP-219.65.7.244.mum1.vsnl.net.in (EHLO home.woodlands) (219.65.7.244) by mail.gmx.net (mp015) with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 16:40:57 +0200 From: Apurva Mehta To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-Id: <20030624201114.77af6699.apurva@gmx.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.1 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] mail problems.. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:11:14 +0530 I have been trying to use plan 9 to check my email but I am getting stuck. I have a pop3 account with gmx.net and here is what I have typed on the command line to check it.. upas/fs -f /pop/pop.gmx.net/my_user_name The first time I did that, I was asked for my password. It accepted it and the I got the term% prompt again. When I executed 'mail' from acme, it said that I had 0 messages. I know for a fact that there were messages on the server, why were they not downloaded? Also, I am confused about how to send mail using an authenticated smtp server. What do the different rewrite files do? I have edited my rewrite.gateway file to point to my smtp server (mail.gmx.net). But how do I handle authentication? I have also added a 'From' header file in my /mail/box/user_name/headers file. Will this 'From' header be used for every email I send from my account? - Apurva From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 23:44:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 23:44:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27962 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 23:44:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27958 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 23:44:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 23:44:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6EFB919AC3; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:44:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 46A6219AC0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:43:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5OEhaeH018296 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 08:43:36 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5OEhadC018292 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 08:43:36 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti/fmtarenas approximate duration? In-Reply-To: <37008ea12e2342f5883967e918beebf0@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 08:43:36 -0600 (MDT) On Tue, 24 Jun 2003, Sape Mullender wrote: > echo dma on >/dev/sdCx/ctl > > will help a lot. > > Having said that, the initial snapshot of a 35 GB file system still took 40 hours > (but everything -- fossil, arenas, index -- was on one disk (a temporary > necessity to free up disk space elsewhere)). > following jmk's fix a fmtarenas on a 60gb arena took less than 30 minutes (more like 15, don't have exact numbers). fmtisect on a 3.04Gb index partition took about two minutes. this one i actually measured with iostats, but the numbers are strange: # iostats venti/fmtisect isect /dev/sdD0/isect clearing the partition configuring index section isect with space for index config bytes=65536 read 80863 bytes, 7.896778e+07 Kb/sec write 3273810527 bytes, 3.197081e+12 Kb/sec protocol 3287480890 bytes, 3.210431e+12 Kb/sec rpc 399684 count Message Count Low High Time Averg in out version 1 0 0 0 0 ms 19 19 bytes attach 1 0 0 0 0 ms 25 20 bytes walk 9 0 0 0 0 ms 259 293 bytes open 5 0 0 0 0 ms 60 120 bytes read 21 0 0 0 0 ms 483 81094 bytes write 399638 0 0 0 0 ms 3283002201 4396018 bytes clunk 8 0 0 0 0 ms 88 56 bytes stat 1 0 0 0 0 ms 11 81 bytes Opens Reads (bytes) Writes (bytes) File 1 0 0 2 95 (stderr) 1 0 0 399636 3273810432 /dev/sdD0/isect 1 21 80863 0 0 /bin/venti/fmtisect # From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 24 23:53:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 24 23:53:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28198 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Jun 2003 23:53:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28194 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2003 23:53:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 23:53:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 84C0519ABF; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:53:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from larch (unknown [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 43FC219A60 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:52:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <84ebd5e884ace46d7616d44a956c2967@snellwilcox.com> From: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] dma on - me too ? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 15:52:37 +0100 Hi, At the risk of asking stupid questions, can I just add my boards pci device/vendor IDs to the kernel and turn on DMA? My machine is a P1 233 (CPU is ok, but disk I/O is a bit slow). output of pci below. -Steve term% pci 0.0.0: 06.00.00 10b9/1541 0 0.1.0: 06.04.00 10b9/5243 0 0.11.0: 02.00.00 8086/1229 10 0:dd000000 4096 1:0000b801 64 2:dc800000 1048576 0.15.0: 01.01.8a 10b9/5229 0 4:0000b401 16 0.3.0: 06.80.00 10b9/7101 0 0.7.0: 06.01.00 10b9/1533 0 1.0.0: 03.00.00 121a/0003 11 0:de000000 33554432 1:e6000008 33554432 2:0000d801 256 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 00:25:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 00:25:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28872 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 00:25:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28868 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 00:25:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 00:25:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E945719AB2; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 11:25:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A128719A60 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 11:24:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00295 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 11:24:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5OFO9704366 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 11:24:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306241524.h5OFO9704366@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mail problems.. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:11:14 +0530." <20030624201114.77af6699.apurva@gmx.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 11:24:09 -0400 > upas/fs -f /pop/pop.gmx.net/my_user_name > > The first time I did that, I was asked for my password. It accepted it > and the I got the term% prompt again. > > When I executed 'mail' from acme, it said that I had 0 messages. I > know for a fact that there were messages on the server, why were they > not downloaded? It sounds like acme was running in a different namespace and thus didn't see the /mail/fs that was being presented by upas/fs talking to the POP3 server. Did you run acme in the same window you ran upas/fs in? > Also, I am confused about how to send mail using an authenticated smtp > server. What do the different rewrite files do? I have edited my > rewrite.gateway file to point to my smtp server (mail.gmx.net). But > how do I handle authentication? I have also added a 'From' header file > in my /mail/box/user_name/headers file. Will this 'From' header be > used for every email I send from my account? Well, you should move rewrite.gateway to rewrite. Authentication is handled using smtp; change /mail/lib/remotemail such that, when it invokes smtp, it supplies the ``-a'' and ``-u '' options. Note that authentication is a little picky in that the SMTP server must support TLS for it to work. The client won't authenticate by sending a password over an unencrypted connection. Make sure your password on the mailserver is in a factotum that smtp can see (if you're just using a standalone machine, that's your normal factotum). Something like: echo 'key proto=pass service=smtp server=''your.mail.server'' !password=''your_password''' >> /mnt/factotum/ctl (You may not need to quote the mailserver name, nor the password, but it won't hurt anything). - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 01:35:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 01:35:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29941 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 01:35:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29937 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 01:35:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 01:35:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B7DEB19ABA; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:35:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.de [213.165.64.20]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 48CC319AC1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:34:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 12634 invoked by uid 65534); 24 Jun 2003 16:34:17 -0000 Received: from PPP-219.65.6.187.mum1.vsnl.net.in (EHLO home.woodlands) (219.65.6.187) by mail.gmx.net (mp006) with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 18:34:17 +0200 From: Apurva Mehta To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mail problems.. Message-Id: <20030624220435.05eac738.apurva@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: <200306241524.h5OFO9704366@augusta.math.psu.edu> References: <20030624201114.77af6699.apurva@gmx.net> <200306241524.h5OFO9704366@augusta.math.psu.edu> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.1 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:04:35 +0530 On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 11:24:09 -0400 Dan Cross wrote: > > It sounds like acme was running in a different namespace and thus > didn't see the /mail/fs that was being presented by upas/fs talking > to the POP3 server. Did you run acme in the same window you ran > upas/fs in? Thanks, I ran mail from the window I ran upas/fs from and I could read my mail. However, it does not store a local copy of the messages, it seems to download them from the server everytime I access my mail box.. Is there any way to make it download a local copy while leaving the original message on the server? > Well, you should move rewrite.gateway to rewrite. Authentication is > handled using smtp; change /mail/lib/remotemail such that, when it > invokes smtp, it supplies the ``-a'' and ``-u '' > options. Note that authentication is a little picky in that the > SMTP server must support TLS for it to work. The client won't > authenticate by sending a password over an unencrypted connection. > Make sure your password on the mailserver is in a factotum that smtp > can see (if you're just using a standalone machine, that's your > normal factotum). Something like: > echo 'key proto=pass service=smtp server=''your.mail.server'' > !password=''your_password''' >> /mnt/factotum/ctl(You may not need > to quote the mailserver name, nor the password, but it won't hurt > anything). I did that, but my messages do not seem to be reaching the recipients. I will wait and see, but usually my smtp server delivers messages almost instantly. BTW, I ran 'mail recipient_address' on the command line and typed in a message. I then hit ESC and CTRL+D. Since I have used justqmail in my rewrite file, I executed '/mail/lib/kickqueue'. There was some activity on my modem and I got the prompt back.. Is this the correct way of going about sending mail? Also, my smtp service requires that the address I am sending from should be an @gmx.net address. I have added the line : "From: "Apurva Mehta" to my /mail/box/user_name/headers file. Will this ensure that the 'from' address is as required by the service? - Apurva From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 02:10:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 02:10:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30278 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 02:10:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30274 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 02:10:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 02:10:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5389B19AAA; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:10:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 45AA019988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:09:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5OH9LeH019845 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 11:09:21 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5OH9LT6019841 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 11:09:21 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] more silly fossil questions Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 11:09:21 -0600 (MDT) how are you running your fossils? do you have a standalone fossil machine that boots off the fossil partition? do you boot off a kfs/9fat/floppy and then start fossil somehow? is 'auth/cpu/fossil' possible the same way 'auth/cpu/kfs' is? i'm asking because i reached 'Congratulations! You have a fossil!' and am now staring at 'Booting a standalone fossil system', which claims to be 'complicated and clunky'... if nobody's booting fossil standalone, then what's your network configuration then? andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 02:26:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 02:26:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30440 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 02:26:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30436 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 02:26:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 02:26:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BA55519AC4; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:26:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE21D19ACE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:25:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <95c74034a4670cd53c6ca43a793b40d6@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm strangeness In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:24:21 -0400 On Tue Jun 24 09:46:25 EDT 2003, rminnich@lanl.gov wrote: > On Tue, 24 Jun 2003, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > > > i urge you to turn dma/rwm on. > > This seems like something that just "ought to be" on. Why would it not be? > > ron The reason it's not on by default is that the driver currently does not do any DMA configuration by itself. In order to set up a DMA mode, both the ATA controller and the drive have to be configured appropriately. Setting the drive is straightforward, but setting the ATA controller is chip-specific. Instead, the driver makes the assumption that if you enable DMA, you know that the BIOS has configured both the drive and the controller correctly and that is not always the case. Plus, there are combinations of drives and controllers and DMA modes which don't work correctly, so the driver errs on the side of safety by default. If you know it's OK, it's easy to put the enable in cpurc. I did do some work on restructuring the ATA driver to make some of this possible, but it is incomplete. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 02:27:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 02:27:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30448 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 02:27:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30444 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 02:27:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 02:27:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0BC7719AC6; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:27:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from thefrayedknot.armory.com (thefrayedknot.armory.com [192.122.209.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0E60E19AC6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:26:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 22947 invoked by uid 1000); 24 Jun 2003 17:26:49 -0000 From: Andrew To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] more silly fossil questions Message-ID: <20030624172649.GA9492@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:26:49 -0700 fwiw I currently do the standalone fossil setup. It seems to work reasonably well except you are kinda screwed if you mess up the boot scripts or something. I had to reload from a seperate system with kfs. The system does cpu/fossil, i have a seperate auth server. Basically what happens is the files you need to boot up get on the network and run fossil/venti all get compiled into the kernel, which unfortunatly makes it fairly big and bulky, and you get to recompile everytime something gets updated or you want to change some of the initial settings. I had to go this route because i lacked the drives/space at the time to do anything else. I will probably swap over to booting onto kfs then exporting fossil now that i have some extra drives, hopefully things will be easier that way. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 02:31:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 02:31:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30503 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 02:31:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30499 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 02:31:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 02:31:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C769B19ACC; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:31:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4571719AC5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:30:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19UrRd-0007DA-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 18:19:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EF880D2.B8865233@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20030605045955.GC73958@cassie.foobarbaz.net>, <002101c33a5b$696b9900$e3944251@insultant.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] ports ... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:15:54 GMT "boyd, rounin" wrote: > yes, i remember yelling at CRL about making long being > 64 bits on the alpha and int being 32 bits. AS-irc int was > intended to map straight onto the machine's word size. Unfortunately there are several, somewhat conflicting, demands being made on the various integer types. If you have a specific width requirement you should use rather than assuming things about the standard types. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 02:33:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 02:33:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30527 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 02:33:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30523 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 02:33:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 02:33:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 72D6C19AC7; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:33:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2F65F19AC0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:32:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] dma on - me too ? In-Reply-To: <84ebd5e884ace46d7616d44a956c2967@snellwilcox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:32:29 -0400 See my previous post. This is an ALI controller chip and I have no idea if it is compatible with the Intel register layout, has bugs, etc. You can try to find those things out before you try it and maybe it is OK. Sometimes the corruption is subtle. --jim On Tue Jun 24 10:53:23 EDT 2003, steve.simon@snellwilcox.com wrote: > Hi, > > At the risk of asking stupid questions, can I just add my boards pci > device/vendor IDs to the kernel and turn on DMA? My machine is a > P1 233 (CPU is ok, but disk I/O is a bit slow). > > output of pci below. > > -Steve > > term% pci > 0.0.0: 06.00.00 10b9/1541 0 > 0.1.0: 06.04.00 10b9/5243 0 > 0.11.0: 02.00.00 8086/1229 10 0:dd000000 4096 1:0000b801 64 2:dc800000 1048576 > 0.15.0: 01.01.8a 10b9/5229 0 4:0000b401 16 > 0.3.0: 06.80.00 10b9/7101 0 > 0.7.0: 06.01.00 10b9/1533 0 > 1.0.0: 03.00.00 121a/0003 11 0:de000000 33554432 1:e6000008 33554432 2:0000d801 256 > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 03:09:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 03:09:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31019 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 03:09:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31015 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 03:09:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 03:09:39 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7F06A19AC8; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:09:17 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from marsupilami.tombob.com (82-41-200-130.cable.ubr11.edin.blueyonder.co.uk [82.41.200.130]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D3A8F199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:08:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] more silly fossil questions From: plan9@blueyonder.co.uk In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 19:08:37 +0100 Hi, I reached exactly this stage a couple of months ago and my question was answered by people going, yes, build your kernel to use fossil/venti just as it says in the wiki. It may say there that is is complicated, but that is because it is more complicated than booting off a CD, not because it is challenging. The recipe given in the wiki is pretty easy to follow. Once you've got that up and running, everything just behaves like you want it to. Apart from the fact that changes in your configuration and pulling updates becomes a bit of a hassle, as you have to recompile, reinstall your kernel and reboot. I haven't yet gone through this process myself. But considering all the changes of late I probably will have to soon. Incidentally, how are people backing up their venti? I don't have a CD writer on my cpu/fossil server, but I do have one on my terminal. Can I 'just' use rdarena on the terminal? Probably not, I guess I need to do some reading. Anyway, stories of how to do backups and restores would be much appreciated. Robby From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 03:20:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 03:20:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31187 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 03:20:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31183 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 03:20:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 03:20:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB7D9199BE; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:20:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8002219AA2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:19:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08530 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:19:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5OIJB705299 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:19:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306241819.h5OIJB705299@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] more silly fossil questions In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 24 Jun 2003 19:08:37 BST." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:19:10 -0400 > I reached exactly this stage a couple of months ago and my question > was answered by people going, yes, build your kernel to use > fossil/venti just as it says in the wiki. It may say there that is is > complicated, but that is because it is more complicated than booting > off a CD, not because it is challenging. > > The recipe given in the wiki is pretty easy to follow. > > Once you've got that up and running, everything just behaves like you > want it to. Apart from the fact that changes in your configuration > and pulling updates becomes a bit of a hassle, as you have to > recompile, reinstall your kernel and reboot. I haven't yet gone > through this process myself. But considering all the changes of late > I probably will have to soon. I suppose another solution is to dedicate a (very) small partition at the beginning of the disk for the fossil/venti bootstrap. Put a simple filesystem, such as the flash FS, on it and then the kernel image need only contain just enough logic in /boot/boot to mount it and run a script. It would certainly make alterations easier as they are no longer tied into the not-easily-mutable kernel image. If something *really* gets messed up, one can boot off a CD and ostensibly still have access to the configuration data for recovery. That said, I haven't tried it. I have too much of the wrong hardware to set up a fossil at the moment. With luck, that'll change after I get back from India. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 04:50:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 04:50:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32750 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 04:50:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32746 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 04:50:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 04:50:41 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BBE8C199E8; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 15:50:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from infocom.km.ua (infocom.km.ua [195.46.36.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D3B051998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 15:49:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kp.km.ua (root@kp.km.ua [217.196.174.2]) by infocom.km.ua (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/ic) with ESMTP id h5OJlELY023508 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:47:49 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Received: from localhost.localdomain (dialup12.kp.km.ua [217.196.174.27]) by kp.km.ua (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/kp-branch) with SMTP id h5OJkvB0032952 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:47:12 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" From: "Andrey S. Kukhar" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] I think I'll try this X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <03062422471300.00510@localhost.localdomain> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:52:30 -0400 check the support of your hardware at http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/supported_PC_hardware kyxap From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 05:33:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 05:33:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1240 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 05:33:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1236 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 05:33:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 05:33:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BBF1819AC1; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:33:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C545E19A91 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:32:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp ([61.211.130.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 05:32:33 JST 2003 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Subject: [9fans] short bootp packet Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 05:32:32 +0900 Hello, Recently I recompiled kernel(9pc) and booted via ethernet. Then I got the messages bellow. il: parse: short bootp packet. ... il: parse: short bootp packet. il: no success with DHCP boot: ip config 5: failed panic: boot process died: unknown ... cpu0: exiting Do you know something about this? Kenji Arisawa From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 05:35:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 05:35:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1287 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 05:35:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1283 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 05:35:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 05:35:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C51BB19ACA; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:35:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-07.noos.net [212.198.2.76]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D53B019A60 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:34:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 7420713 invoked by uid 0); 24 Jun 2003 20:34:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.227]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.76 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 24 Jun 2003 20:34:04 -0000 Message-ID: <001a01c33a8f$f4267040$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3EF880D2.B8865233@null.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] ports ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:33:49 +0200 > Unfortunately there are several, somewhat conflicting, > demands being made on the various integer types. If you > have a specific width requirement you should use > rather than assuming things about the standard types. yes, very true. no way am i going to fight a broken compiler. how did it used to go? "everything's a vax" ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 05:39:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 05:39:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1385 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 05:39:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1381 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 05:39:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 05:39:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 89D3C19ACD; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:39:17 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from magnum.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 965FB199EE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:38:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from robin.cooper.edu by magnum.cooper.edu with SMTP id AA16893 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>); Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:43:43 -0400 Received: from localhost by robin.cooper.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA15884; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:38:50 -0400 From: Joel Salomon To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ports ... In-Reply-To: <001a01c33a8f$f4267040$e3944251@insultant.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Joel Salomon List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:38:50 -0400 (EDT) I believe it was "All the world's a VAX", but of course now all the world's a PC ;-) --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 05:52:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 05:52:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1543 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 05:52:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1539 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 05:52:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 05:52:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BA3B21998A; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:52:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1AC3319AD3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:51:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cjl1.demon.co.uk ([194.222.72.34] helo=falken) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 19UulO-000Kus-0X for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:51:39 +0100 Message-ID: <002901c33a91$f5cb0da0$2248dec2@falken> From: "Chris Hollis-Locke" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <37ee0c0d5f3eae6e75983000dd16611a@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Subject: Re: [9fans] life's too short MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:47:53 +0100 >Thanks a lot. I'm pulling and looking forward to install it. you bought the thong then From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 06:17:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 06:17:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1896 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 06:17:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1892 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 06:17:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 06:17:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A6DF519AC9; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:17:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6CD6919A60 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:16:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Jun 24 17:16:17 EDT 2003 Received: from 209.23.14.73 ([209.23.14.73]) by plan9; Tue Jun 24 17:16:14 EDT 2003 Message-ID: From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti/fmtarenas approximate duration? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 23:00:34 -0400 > from other sources i understand that venti/fmtarenas has been observed to > take the better part of a night to complete :) how are you solving this > for the future plan9 install disk, which will have the option to choose > between kfs and fossil? I turned DMA on by default. That won't help if you've got an unknown controller, but otherwise it will help quite a bit. The fact is that zeroing the disk takes time either way (though it takes a lot longer without DMA), so if you want to do that you have to be ready for it. Maybe we should change Venti to zero the disk as it goes along, keeping a ``have-zeroed-this-far'' field in the various super blocks. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 09:37:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 09:37:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5897 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 09:37:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5893 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 09:37:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 09:37:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A864619AD0; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:37:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from shrub.chem.usyd.edu.au (shrub.chem.usyd.edu.au [129.78.77.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 01136199EE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:36:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from sainsb_j@localhost) by shrub.chem.usyd.edu.au (8.9.3 (PHNE_28760_binary)/8.7.1) id KAA04972; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:36:50 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <200306250036.KAA04972@shrub.chem.usyd.edu.au> From: James Sainsbury To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] the backporting continues - /. stories maybe of interest X-Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: Organization: University of Sydney User-Agent: tin/1.4.5-20010409 ("One More Nightmare") (UNIX) (HP-UX/B.10.20 (9000/755)) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:36:50 +1000 (EST) > You want to make your way in the CS field? Simple. Calculate rough time of > amnesia (hell, 10 years is plenty, probably 10 months is plenty), go to > the dusty archives, dig out something fun, and go for it. > It's worked for many people, and it can work for you. Not only CS I suspect, but very true. RGDS From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 09:45:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 09:45:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6226 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 09:45:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6222 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 09:45:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 09:45:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C55719ACF; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:45:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 28A1E199EE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:44:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Jun 24 20:44:22 EDT 2003 Received: from 209.23.14.62 ([209.23.14.62]) by plan9; Tue Jun 24 20:44:18 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <991e41889b450ad510090cda76b22a72@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] more silly fossil questions In-Reply-To: <200306241819.h5OIJB705299@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:08:02 -0400 > I suppose another solution is to dedicate a (very) small partition at > the beginning of the disk for the fossil/venti bootstrap. Put a simple > filesystem, such as the flash FS, on it and then the kernel image need > only contain just enough logic in /boot/boot to mount it and run a > script. It would certainly make alterations easier as they are no Then you have to maintain the script. As long as you can build one kernel that works for many people I think it's better to have the logic in the kernel. You can use the venti/conf and fossil/conf commands to brand configurations onto your disks. Then /boot/boot will just do the right thing. There's a new kernel 9pcf that is a fossil terminal. I don't remember if I pushed out though. I'll check. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 09:45:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 09:45:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6244 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 09:45:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6239 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 09:45:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 09:45:42 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 919F219AD8; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:45:25 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9C33F19A2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:44:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Jun 24 20:44:37 EDT 2003 Received: from 209.23.14.62 ([209.23.14.62]) by plan9; Tue Jun 24 20:44:33 EDT 2003 Message-ID: From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mail problems.. In-Reply-To: <20030624220435.05eac738.apurva@gmx.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:13:03 -0400 > Thanks, I ran mail from the window I ran upas/fs from and I could read > my mail. However, it does not store a local copy of the messages, it > seems to download them from the server everytime I access my mail > box.. Is there any way to make it download a local copy while leaving > the original message on the server? It downloads every time you start it, but it does not delete them, and if you leave it running, then it will dial out periodically to check for new messages but not redownload the old ones. If you delete them via mail or Mail, they get deleted from the server. Every time you run the "mail" command, it will dial out just to see if there are new messages. That might be the delay you are seeing. > I did that, but my messages do not seem to be reaching the recipients. > I will wait and see, but usually my smtp server delivers messages > almost instantly. BTW, I ran 'mail recipient_address' on the command > line and typed in a message. I then hit ESC and CTRL+D. Since I have > used justqmail in my rewrite file, I executed '/mail/lib/kickqueue'. > There was some activity on my modem and I got the prompt back.. tail /sys/log/smtp and /sys/log/mail. Probably an error occurred and they got dropped on the floor (the bounces bounced too). You can look at the queue in /mail/queue/$user. > Is this the correct way of going about sending mail? Also, my > smtp service requires that the address I am sending from should be an > @gmx.net address. I have added the line : "From: "Apurva Mehta" > to my /mail/box/user_name/headers file. Will this > ensure that the 'from' address is as required by the service? Sure, but you also need to edit /mail/lib/remotemail to set the from domain there. The headers file just affects the headers, not the smtp envelope. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 09:46:02 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 09:46:02 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6266 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 09:46:01 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6262 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 09:46:01 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 09:46:01 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 29BDD19ADC; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:45:37 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8999119A2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:44:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Jun 24 20:44:48 EDT 2003 Received: from 209.23.14.62 ([209.23.14.62]) by plan9; Tue Jun 24 20:44:44 EDT 2003 Message-ID: From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mail problems.. In-Reply-To: <20030624201114.77af6699.apurva@gmx.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:16:54 -0400 > upas/fs -f /pop/pop.gmx.net/my_user_name > > The first time I did that, I was asked for my password. It accepted it > and the I got the term% prompt again. > > When I executed 'mail' from acme, it said that I had 0 messages. I > know for a fact that there were messages on the server, why were they > not downloaded? This is because acme and your terminal are running in different name spaces. You need to start upas/fs in your profile, before rio, to make it appear everywhere. Alternately, you can use the apparently undocumented -s option to upas/fs to post a service file: upas/fs -f -s /pop/pop.gmx.net/my_user_name and then execute Local mount /srv/upasfs.$user /mail/fs in acme to access it. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 09:46:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 09:46:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6298 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 09:46:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6294 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 09:46:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 09:46:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B46BA19AD2; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:46:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9CFC619A60 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:45:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Jun 24 20:45:00 EDT 2003 Received: from 209.23.14.62 ([209.23.14.62]) by plan9; Tue Jun 24 20:44:56 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <1ff1d74dd20c68e02b3df6a97ab67a2b@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] big pull In-Reply-To: <181301dcf36a67713cc40429806a95d5@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:26:16 -0400 > > no, i just lost track of why various things had changed. > > probably libfmt. it's always libfmt. > > I've been happy with the last (end of May or June) libfmt... that's the worst part -- it's usually some corner case of libfmt that will never run anyway but is worth fixing. but this one was actually malloc, again a corner case that will likely never run anyway -- i changed the debugging to check for bad blocks in a better order. i messed up on this one. i should have staged it better to avoid recreating all new binaries. but what's done is done. i usually do better. that was a busy day. grep '^1055' /dist/replica/client/plan9.log From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 09:58:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 09:58:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6809 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 09:58:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6805 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 09:58:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 09:58:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AFDF619AD7; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:58:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sccrmhc12.attbi.com (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 185B619AD1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:57:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nospam.com (h00a0cca0b74a.ne.client2.attbi.com[24.34.51.37](untrusted sender)) by attbi.com (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <20030625005708012005o8tfe>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 00:57:08 +0000 Message-ID: <3EF8F190.6070601@nospam.com> From: bs User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.9) Gecko/20020408 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] more silly fossil questions References: <200306241819.h5OIJB705299@augusta.math.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: bs@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:49:20 -0400 Dan Cross wrote: > With luck, that'll change after I get back from India. To India in the summer? Surely, you will change when you get back from India ;-) (yes, I know parts of India very well) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 10:35:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 10:35:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8803 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 10:35:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8799 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 10:35:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 10:35:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 503C919AA2; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:35:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7221119A2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:34:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA27805 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:34:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5P1YV707256 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:34:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306250134.h5P1YV707256@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] more silly fossil questions In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:08:02 EDT." <991e41889b450ad510090cda76b22a72@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:34:31 -0400 > > I suppose another solution is to dedicate a (very) small partition at > > the beginning of the disk for the fossil/venti bootstrap. Put a simple > > filesystem, such as the flash FS, on it and then the kernel image need > > only contain just enough logic in /boot/boot to mount it and run a > > script. It would certainly make alterations easier as they are no > > Then you have to maintain the script. As long as you can build > one kernel that works for many people I think it's better to have > the logic in the kernel. The way I see it, we can have it both ways. The issue seems to be that that one kernel isn't ideal for some people, who want to change around their configuration without rebuilding their kernel. But as I see it, those who want to experiment can keep a script elsewhere. Those who just want the default can use the single kernel image you describe. > You can use the venti/conf and fossil/conf commands to brand > configurations onto your disks. Then /boot/boot will just do the > right thing. There's a new kernel 9pcf that is a fossil terminal. > I don't remember if I pushed out though. I'll check. Cool! - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 10:43:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 10:43:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9088 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 10:43:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9084 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 10:43:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 10:43:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DFD2519AD3; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:43:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8640B199EE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:42:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28751 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:42:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5P1gK707307 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:42:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306250142.h5P1gK707307@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] more silly fossil questions In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:49:20 EDT." <3EF8F190.6070601@nospam.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:42:20 -0400 > > With luck, that'll change after I get back from India. > > To India in the summer? Surely, you will change when you get back from > India ;-) (yes, I know parts of India very well) Yeah. South India no less, to visit with my girlfriend's family. Hey, if I drop a couple of pounds sweating while I'm there that might be good. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 11:39:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 11:39:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11959 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 11:39:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11955 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 11:39:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 11:39:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 46F6819ACB; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:39:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ED9BB19A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:38:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] big pull From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <1ff1d74dd20c68e02b3df6a97ab67a2b@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 11:38:15 +0900 By the way, the problem reported by Nemo before of fossil's memory leak has been fixed in the big pull? Or the problem was not recognized? I may have time to build venti/fossil for our site within a few weeks, yeah! Summar vacation without students is comming soon! Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 12:32:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 12:32:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13896 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 12:32:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13892 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 12:32:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 12:32:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8F6D719AD1; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 23:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 300C519AD4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 23:31:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sdn-ap-007castocp0012.dialsprint.net ([63.187.64.12] helo=acm.org) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19V0zs-0001ua-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:31:00 -0700 Message-ID: <3EF909A7.8060201@acm.org> From: "D. Brownlee" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4b) Gecko/20030507 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] minor problem -- the page is readable Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 19:32:07 -0700 term% man -t usb | page converting from troff to postscript... /386/bin/aux/tr2post: :570 :WARNING: cannot find glyph, rune=0x230a stoken= troff font LucidaSans /386/bin/aux/tr2post: :576 :WARNING: cannot find glyph, rune=0x230b stoken= troff font LucidaSans /386/bin/aux/tr2post: :580 :WARNING: cannot find glyph, rune=0x2308 stoken= troff font LucidaSans /386/bin/aux/tr2post: :586 :WARNING: cannot find glyph, rune=0x2309 stoken= troff font LucidaSans reading through postscript... I've only seen this with the usb pages. By the way, if the window in which a page is displayed is moved, just to the right a little, then the panning is very slow and jerky. It is smooth and fast if the window is not moved. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 12:48:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 12:48:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14492 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 12:48:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14485 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 12:48:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 12:48:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4973D19AD5; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 23:48:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (orthanc.ab.ca [216.123.230.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7DA0119A60 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 23:47:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (peregrin.orthanc.ab.ca [192.168.42.6]) by orthanc.ab.ca (8.12.6p2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h5P3lQUW073588 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:47:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Lyndon Nerenberg To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Subject: [9fans] Virtual PC 6 PCI device probe failure Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:47:25 -0600 I've done some more fiddling with the VPC 6 install. Video is working fine, but the kernel does not see any PCI (or PNP) devices during the bus scan. This explains why the virtual 21140 ethernet isn't getting configured. Was there any magic required to get the kernel to work under vmware? Meanwhile I'm going to install a FreeBSD and see what it thinks about PCI devices. --lyndon From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 16:49:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 16:49:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25664 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 16:49:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25660 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 16:49:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 16:49:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E64D819AC5; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 03:49:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8C05519A60 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 03:48:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] big pull From: Fco.J.Ballesteros From: nemo@plan9.escet.urjc.es In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:48:22 +0200 > By the way, the problem reported by Nemo before of fossil's > memory leak has been fixed in the big pull? Or the problem > was not recognized? The incrase in memory size is not too much. When it runs enough days, the increase in size is comparable to that of cs and some other programs. Here are some numbers for a certain number of days. I didnt trace where the memory went, though. #!/bin/rc # w swapstats cat $0 | grep '^[0-9]' | awk -F/ '{print $1}' | graph -a | plot exit '' 53150/110163 memory 0/160000 swap 53350/110163 memory 0/160000 swap 53857/110163 memory 0/160000 swap 54082/110163 memory 0/160000 swap 54583/110163 memory 0/160000 swap 54735/110163 memory 0/160000 swap 54701/110163 memory 0/160000 swap 54756/110163 memory 0/160000 swap 54810/110163 memory 0/160000 swap 54870/110163 memory 0/160000 swap 54791/110163 memory 0/160000 swap 54893/110163 memory 0/160000 swap 55006/110163 memory 0/160000 swap 55096/110163 memory 0/160000 swap 55095/110163 memory 0/160000 swap 55146/110163 memory 0/160000 swap 55304/110163 memory 0/160000 swap 55283/110163 memory 0/160000 swap 55368/110163 memory 0/160000 swap 55458/110163 memory 0/160000 swap 55504/110163 memory 0/160000 swap 55574/110163 memory 0/160000 swap 55609/110163 memory 0/160000 swap From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 16:56:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 16:56:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25982 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 16:56:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25978 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 16:56:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 16:56:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8CF1E19AE0; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 03:56:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 28E9C19AD9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 03:55:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <41d2ac77a9d78ecc8da522a86d28c33d@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti/fmtarenas approximate duration? From: Fco.J.Ballesteros From: nemo@plan9.escet.urjc.es In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:55:56 +0200 > Maybe we should change Venti to zero the disk as it goes > along, keeping a ``have-zeroed-this-far'' field in the > various super blocks. That would be great. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 16:59:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 16:59:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26130 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 16:59:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26126 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 16:59:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 16:59:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0A81E19ADD; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 03:59:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 05C4E19AD6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 03:58:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h5P7oQnp024139 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:50:26 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h5P7oQ7I024138 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:50:26 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] big pull Message-ID: <20030625095025.U2250@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from Fco.J.Ballesteros on Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 09:48:22AM +0200 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:50:25 +0200 On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 09:48:22AM +0200, Fco.J.Ballesteros wrote: > > The incrase in memory size is not too much. When it runs enough days, > the increase in size is comparable to that of cs and some other programs. > Could this not be the accumulation of output to /srv/fscons? Just wondering... ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 17:00:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 17:00:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26177 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 17:00:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26173 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 17:00:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 17:00:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 36D7619AE4; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 04:00:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3B61519A60 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 03:59:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3ec0bfdccee7026d1e953e37a3c222f8@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] more silly fossil questions From: Fco.J.Ballesteros From: nemo@plan9.escet.urjc.es In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:59:23 +0200 > Incidentally, how are people backing up their venti? I don't have a I use fs(3) to keep two disks in mirror. Arenas and indexes come from partition in those disks. Besides (less than I should) I burn the arenas in CDs. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 17:02:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 17:02:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26274 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 17:02:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26270 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 17:02:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 17:02:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A74F919AE7; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 04:02:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C845419AE1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 04:01:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] big pull From: Fco.J.Ballesteros From: nemo@plan9.escet.urjc.es In-Reply-To: <20030625095025.U2250@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-bsqzhmuybvhfoqixkuhjztdcfo" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:01:18 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-bsqzhmuybvhfoqixkuhjztdcfo Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hmm, I keep a window running a con to /srv/fscons. IIRC, that drains the output queue for the console. --upas-bsqzhmuybvhfoqixkuhjztdcfo Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Wed Jun 25 09:59:28 MDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0A81E19ADD; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 03:59:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 05C4E19AD6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 03:58:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h5P7oQnp024139 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:50:26 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h5P7oQ7I024138 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:50:26 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] big pull Message-ID: <20030625095025.U2250@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from Fco.J.Ballesteros on Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 09:48:22AM +0200 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:50:25 +0200 On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 09:48:22AM +0200, Fco.J.Ballesteros wrote: > > The incrase in memory size is not too much. When it runs enough days, > the increase in size is comparable to that of cs and some other programs. > Could this not be the accumulation of output to /srv/fscons? Just wondering... ++L --upas-bsqzhmuybvhfoqixkuhjztdcfo-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 17:03:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 17:03:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26304 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 17:03:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26300 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 17:03:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 17:03:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F9C219AEB; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 04:02:25 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A551119A60 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 04:01:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h5P7r5np024169 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:53:06 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h5P7r5V0024168 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:53:05 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti/fmtarenas approximate duration? Message-ID: <20030625095304.V2250@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <41d2ac77a9d78ecc8da522a86d28c33d@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <41d2ac77a9d78ecc8da522a86d28c33d@plan9.escet.urjc.es>; from Fco.J.Ballesteros on Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 09:55:56AM +0200 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:53:04 +0200 On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 09:55:56AM +0200, Fco.J.Ballesteros wrote: > > > Maybe we should change Venti to zero the disk as it goes > > along, keeping a ``have-zeroed-this-far'' field in the > > various super blocks. > > That would be great. Sorry to disagree, but I'd prefer not to carry state unnecessarily, it strikes me as being more fragile, this way. Wasting a little time initially I'm sure pays off over a long period. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 17:06:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 17:06:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26404 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 17:06:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26400 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 17:06:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 17:06:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 68BD719AEE; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 04:06:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0E1B219AE1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 04:05:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h5P7v7np024192 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:57:13 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h5P7v3R2024191 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:57:03 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] big pull Message-ID: <20030625095657.W2250@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030625095025.U2250@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from Fco.J.Ballesteros on Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 10:01:18AM +0200 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:56:58 +0200 On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 10:01:18AM +0200, Fco.J.Ballesteros wrote: > > Hmm, I keep a window running a con to /srv/fscons. IIRC, that drains > the output queue for the console. That's what I was wondering about. So it's not the obvious cause. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 17:07:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 17:07:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26442 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 17:07:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26438 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 17:07:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 17:07:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4167619AF3; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 04:07:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2276919AE1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 04:06:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <50172ac27fc2f87a3f6364b75f9eff13@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] more silly fossil questions From: Fco.J.Ballesteros From: nemo@plan9.escet.urjc.es In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-afnebchdcmzpoktpodijkaiklf" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:06:11 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-afnebchdcmzpoktpodijkaiklf Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We boot a standalone machine that runs both venti and fossil on top of a mirror (see fs(3)) device built of two ide disks. Everything else boots from that file server. My laptop uses kfs to work standalone but I'm switching to fossil there too. --upas-afnebchdcmzpoktpodijkaiklf Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Tue Jun 24 19:10:29 MDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5389B19AAA; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:10:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 45AA019988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:09:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5OH9LeH019845 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 11:09:21 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5OH9LT6019841 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 11:09:21 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] more silly fossil questions Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 11:09:21 -0600 (MDT) how are you running your fossils? do you have a standalone fossil machine that boots off the fossil partition? do you boot off a kfs/9fat/floppy and then start fossil somehow? is 'auth/cpu/fossil' possible the same way 'auth/cpu/kfs' is? i'm asking because i reached 'Congratulations! You have a fossil!' and am now staring at 'Booting a standalone fossil system', which claims to be 'complicated and clunky'... if nobody's booting fossil standalone, then what's your network configuration then? andrey --upas-afnebchdcmzpoktpodijkaiklf-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 17:08:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 17:08:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26496 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 17:08:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26492 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 17:08:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 17:08:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 874B219AF5; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 04:08:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C8F9C19A60 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 04:07:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti/fmtarenas approximate duration? From: Fco.J.Ballesteros From: nemo@plan9.escet.urjc.es In-Reply-To: <20030625095304.V2250@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:07:05 +0200 > Sorry to disagree, but I'd prefer not to carry state unnecessarily, it > strikes me as being more fragile, this way. Wasting a little time Why would it be more fragile? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 17:14:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 17:14:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26817 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 17:14:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26813 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 17:14:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 17:14:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EB64119AFA; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 04:14:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ED53919AF4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 04:13:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h5P852np024243 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:05:04 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h5P85138024242 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:05:01 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti/fmtarenas approximate duration? Message-ID: <20030625100459.X2250@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030625095304.V2250@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from Fco.J.Ballesteros on Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 10:07:05AM +0200 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:04:59 +0200 On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 10:07:05AM +0200, Fco.J.Ballesteros wrote: > > > Sorry to disagree, but I'd prefer not to carry state unnecessarily, it > > strikes me as being more fragile, this way. Wasting a little time > > Why would it be more fragile? Well, variables are just that: variable :-) Having zeroed the entire Venti, you know it's zeroed. Relying on a state variable opens the door to inconsistencies. In this case, even though failure is unlikely, there's an alternative that is a lot less likely to fail. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 18:02:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 18:02:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28631 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 18:02:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28626 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 18:02:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 18:02:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D1D0D19B01; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 05:02:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ns.aprote.ee (ns.aprote.ee [80.235.78.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B1C819A65 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 05:01:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: Message by Barricade ns.aprote.ee with ESMTP id h5P922TH008313 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:02:03 +0300 Received: from tiitl ([192.168.1.32]) by black.aprote.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:01:34 +0300 Message-ID: <000c01c33af8$60973ad0$2001a8c0@aprote.com> From: "Tiit Lankots" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1257" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Jun 2003 09:01:34.0304 (UTC) FILETIME=[6092CE00:01C33AF8] Subject: [9fans] duplicate entries in /dev Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:01:34 +0300 Recently, I noticed while listing /dev. Particularly, cons[ctl], cursor, mouse and snarf all are present twice, but with different qids. How come? Tiit@confused From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 18:22:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 18:22:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29318 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 18:22:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29314 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 18:22:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 18:22:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C4FE0199D5; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 05:22:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from hamnavoe (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BF93E19B03 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 05:21:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3bcb54139c10722082518add44b17105@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mail problems.. From: Richard Miller From: miller@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:21:09 +0100 > It downloads every time you start it, but it does not delete them, > and if you leave it running, then it will dial out periodically > to check for new messages but not redownload the old ones. By default, "periodically" means every 60 seconds, which is not a very good choice if you have a dial-up connection or a busy mail server (or both). You can change this to N seconds by writing to /mail/fs/mbox/ctl the (undocumented?) control message 'refresh N'. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 18:26:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 18:26:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29435 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 18:26:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29430 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 18:26:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 18:26:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DDD5D19B47; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 05:26:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from hamnavoe (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5515A19B0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 05:25:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] big pull From: Richard Miller From: miller@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk In-Reply-To: <20030625095657.W2250@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:25:51 +0100 term% wc /dist/replica/client/plan9.log 12732 127320 947058 /dist/replica/client/plan9.log Does this log ever get truncated or does it grow without bounds? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 18:39:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 18:39:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29805 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 18:39:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29801 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 18:39:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 18:39:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE76619B14; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 05:39:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 34EA919B55 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 05:38:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8e740ca37795a18672747b0f0c2912f9@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti/fmtarenas approximate duration? From: Fco.J.Ballesteros From: nemo@plan9.escet.urjc.es In-Reply-To: <20030625100459.X2250@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 11:38:24 +0200 > entire Venti, you know it's zeroed. Relying on a state variable > opens the door to inconsistencies. In this case, even though > failure is unlikely, there's an alternative that is a lot less > likely to fail. On the other hand, pre-zeroing forbids you to just copy the venti partition to a larger drive. the `zeros' are also state :-) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 19:27:11 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 19:27:11 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31185 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 19:26:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31181 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 19:26:49 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 19:26:49 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 65DED19B5F; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 06:25:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A0C5619A2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 06:24:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h5PAGanp024686 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:16:38 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h5PAGWFQ024685 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:16:32 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti/fmtarenas approximate duration? Message-ID: <20030625121631.Y2250@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030625100459.X2250@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <8e740ca37795a18672747b0f0c2912f9@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <8e740ca37795a18672747b0f0c2912f9@plan9.escet.urjc.es>; from Fco.J.Ballesteros on Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 11:38:24AM +0200 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:16:31 +0200 On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 11:38:24AM +0200, Fco.J.Ballesteros wrote: > > > entire Venti, you know it's zeroed. Relying on a state variable > > opens the door to inconsistencies. In this case, even though > > failure is unlikely, there's an alternative that is a lot less > > likely to fail. > > On the other hand, pre-zeroing forbids you to just copy the venti > partition to a larger drive. the `zeros' are also state :-) Hm, I wasn't aware of that, I hadn't considered that level of detail. There are lots of subtleties in Venti that I haven't picked up (yet). ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 19:49:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 19:49:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31788 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 19:49:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31783 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 19:49:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 19:49:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 23E0F19B6C; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 06:49:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id DADE919B03 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 06:48:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 5707 invoked by uid 65534); 25 Jun 2003 10:48:39 -0000 Received: from PPP-219.65.16.97.mum1.vsnl.net.in (EHLO home.woodlands) (219.65.16.97) by mail.gmx.net (mp009) with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 12:48:39 +0200 From: Apurva Mehta To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mail problems.. Message-Id: <20030625161901.238868f7.apurva@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: References: <20030624201114.77af6699.apurva@gmx.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.1 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:19:01 +0530 On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:16:54 -0400 "Russ Cox" wrote: > This is because acme and your terminal are running > in different name spaces. You need to start upas/fs > in your profile, before rio, to make it appear everywhere. > Alternately, you can use the apparently undocumented -s > option to upas/fs to post a service file: > > upas/fs -f -s /pop/pop.gmx.net/my_user_name > > and then execute > > Local mount /srv/upasfs.$user /mail/fs > When I execute the last line in acme, I get the error /srv/upasfs.apurva file not found.. How should I create it? - Apurva From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 19:50:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 19:50:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31816 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 19:50:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31812 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 19:50:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 19:50:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF7CA19B72; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 06:49:26 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9BCE119B03 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 06:48:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 26590 invoked by uid 65534); 25 Jun 2003 10:48:49 -0000 Received: from PPP-219.65.16.97.mum1.vsnl.net.in (EHLO home.woodlands) (219.65.16.97) by mail.gmx.net (mp025) with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 12:48:49 +0200 From: Apurva Mehta To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mail problems.. Message-Id: <20030625161910.741a48e7.apurva@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: References: <20030624220435.05eac738.apurva@gmx.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.1 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:19:10 +0530 On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:13:03 -0400 "Russ Cox" wrote: > Every time you run the "mail" command, it will dial out just to > see if there are new messages. That might be the delay you are > seeing. How does it dial out automatically? I have not saved any connection information anywhere (yet). I connect using ip/ppp .. > tail /sys/log/smtp and /sys/log/mail. Probably an error occurred > and they got dropped on the floor (the bounces bounced too). > You can look at the queue in /mail/queue/$user. The /sys/log/smtp file was empty. The /sys/log/mail file did list the mails I had tried to send, but there was no error message associated with any of them. > Sure, but you also need to edit /mail/lib/remotemail to set the > from domain there. The headers file just affects the headers, > not the smtp envelope. I set fd=gmx.net in /mail/lib/remotemail .. Is this correct? Also, in the/sys/log/mail file it continues to list the sender as 'apurva', with no mention of the gmx.net domain. Personally, I feel that this may be the reason why my emails are not reaching. - Apurva From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 21:00:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 21:00:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1382 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 21:00:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1378 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 21:00:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 21:00:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E91AA19B04; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 08:00:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4195719A2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 07:59:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7f849836ffab4b6685d22d883d861268@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] duplicate entries in /dev In-Reply-To: <000c01c33af8$60973ad0$2001a8c0@aprote.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ipaurndmshkhdhfpytfeikbglg" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 07:59:56 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ipaurndmshkhdhfpytfeikbglg Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Probably different device types also. If you are in rio, you'll see the real cons, cursur, etc (i.e. the unmultiplexed ones) and also the virtual ones for that window. When you open, you'll only get the virtual ones because they're mounted before. --upas-ipaurndmshkhdhfpytfeikbglg Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Jun 25 05:02:39 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Wed Jun 25 05:02:36 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 930F919B00; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 05:02:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ns.aprote.ee (ns.aprote.ee [80.235.78.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B1C819A65 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 05:01:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: Message by Barricade ns.aprote.ee with ESMTP id h5P922TH008313 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:02:03 +0300 Received: from tiitl ([192.168.1.32]) by black.aprote.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:01:34 +0300 Message-ID: <000c01c33af8$60973ad0$2001a8c0@aprote.com> From: "Tiit Lankots" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1257" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Jun 2003 09:01:34.0304 (UTC) FILETIME=[6092CE00:01C33AF8] Subject: [9fans] duplicate entries in /dev Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:01:34 +0300 Recently, I noticed while listing /dev. Particularly, cons[ctl], cursor, mouse and snarf all are present twice, but with different qids. How come? Tiit@confused --upas-ipaurndmshkhdhfpytfeikbglg-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 25 22:23:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 25 22:23:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3460 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Jun 2003 22:23:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3456 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 22:23:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 22:23:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4589E19AF4; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:23:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ttd (158.Red-80-37-166.pooles.rima-tde.net [80.37.166.158]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2709019ADF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:22:37 -0400 (EDT) From: johnny.mboma@caramail.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Priority: 3 X-Library: Indy 9.0.3-B X-Mailer: Foxmail Message-Id: <20030625132238.2709019ADF@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] CONFIDENCIAL REQUEST Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: johnny.mboma@caramail.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 15:31:59 +0200 Dear Sir I need your help,I am John Mboma the son of a Late minister during the reign of mobutu seseko, I came to know you in the course of my search for a reliable and God fearing partner and I decide to contact you because I believe you are a reputable person and I felt you can help us over this confidential matter. I count on your intergrity and honesty to be able to handle this business. My father was a minister in Democratic Republic of Congo during the reign of Late President Mobutu. Our father was killed during the rebel attack and our house was burnt. We manage to escape to South Africa with my mother and two of my sisters where we are now taking refuge.Before the death of my father he deposited US$30.5 MILLION, with a security company in Europe.The money is kept in a trunk boxes and was registered as precious substance. Thus there is nobody that knows that it is money that is in the box. All the document with which the money was deposited is with us. I am looking for somebody to that is capable and willing to travel to Europe Country to receive the two trunk boxes of money on behalf of my family from the security company. We need a trust worthy and experience person that will help us to invest this money in your country and take us as one family and will also buy a house for us over there where we can live safely. We are expecting to hear from you.Please contact me on this Email Address: john.mboma1@caramail.com Thanks for your anticipated cooperation.please include your telephone number and fax number in your reply Best Regards, JOHN MBOMA. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 00:05:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 00:05:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5769 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 00:05:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5765 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 00:05:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 00:05:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DFE0E19AEA; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 11:05:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2EFFC19A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 11:04:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5PF48eH021467 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:04:08 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5PF47EJ021463 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:04:08 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] auth without secstore? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:04:07 -0600 (MDT) how does one manage bootes' factotum without a secstore? for example, if we create an sshnet key for the auth server using 'auth/rsagen > /mnt/factotum/ctl' the machine will lose the key upon reboot and ssh will not work. is secstore (try saying that fast a few times :) the only solution? andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 00:07:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 00:07:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5835 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 00:07:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5831 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 00:07:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 00:07:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AFE5019AF7; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 11:07:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 59BAB19AF1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 11:06:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Virtual PC 6 PCI device probe failure In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 11:06:39 -0400 On Tue Jun 24 23:48:27 EDT 2003, lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca wrote: > I've done some more fiddling with the VPC 6 install. Video is working > fine, but the kernel does not see any PCI (or PNP) devices during the > bus scan. This explains why the virtual 21140 ethernet isn't getting > configured. > > Was there any magic required to get the kernel to work under vmware? > > Meanwhile I'm going to install a FreeBSD and see what it thinks about > PCI devices. > > --lyndon This came up a year or so ago, so maybe things have changed, but at that time the VirtualPC docs claimed it emulated an Intel Triton chipset, but it was discovered it didn't emulate the PCI config registers in that chipset. This matters on Plan9 because it does raw accesses to probe the PCI space whereas other operating systems do BIOS calls to obtain that information. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 02:32:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 02:32:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8382 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 02:32:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8378 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 02:32:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 02:32:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 600DD19ADF; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 105D219ADF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:31:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sdn-ap-023castocp0025.dialsprint.net ([65.178.104.25] helo=acm.org) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19VE7W-0006jw-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:31:46 -0700 Message-ID: <3EF9DCC6.8010007@acm.org> From: "D. Brownlee" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; NetBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030618 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <3EF73CF4.6070001@acm.org> In-Reply-To: <3EF73CF4.6070001@acm.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Re: PowerPC, usb, modem, etc. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:32:54 -0700 D. Brownlee wrote: > > So, I have a USB modem. I need to read about usb support > for Plan 9; I would like to use the usb modem with Plan 9 > running on the i386 box. First I'll try running u9fs on > the iMac to see whether it can serve the modem. Any > suggestions/comments would be helpful. > Aha! vnc could work, too. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 03:47:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 03:47:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9306 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 03:47:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9302 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 03:47:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 03:47:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3734D19AED; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:47:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BBDE819A66 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:46:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5PIkJeH022086 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:46:19 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5PIkIr2022082 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:46:19 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] problem compiling latest pccpu Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:46:18 -0600 (MDT) when trying to compile a new pccpu server: plan9% pwd /sys/src/9/pc plan9% mk 'CONF=pccpu' 8c -FVw cga.c mk: don't know how to make 'factotum.hack' in directory /sys/src/9/pc plan9% this is the very latest (just did a replica/pull) stuff -- even did a diff with /sys/src/9/pc on sources to make sure... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 03:50:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 03:50:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9339 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 03:50:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9335 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 03:50:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 03:50:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5CDFA19AFC; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:50:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C3A119A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:49:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <582450276844cd04de86dd54584ef0e1@plan9.escet.urjc.es> From: Fco.J.Ballesteros From: nemo@plan9.escet.urjc.es To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] problem compiling latest pccpu In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-lrjprkcentdismxacdljvnnprw" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 20:49:12 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-lrjprkcentdismxacdljvnnprw Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think you no longer need the hack Put /386/bin/auth/factotum in your /sys/src/9/pc/pccpu. hth --upas-lrjprkcentdismxacdljvnnprw Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Wed Jun 25 20:47:33 MDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3734D19AED; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:47:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BBDE819A66 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:46:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5PIkJeH022086 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:46:19 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5PIkIr2022082 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:46:19 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] problem compiling latest pccpu Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:46:18 -0600 (MDT) when trying to compile a new pccpu server: plan9% pwd /sys/src/9/pc plan9% mk 'CONF=pccpu' 8c -FVw cga.c mk: don't know how to make 'factotum.hack' in directory /sys/src/9/pc plan9% this is the very latest (just did a replica/pull) stuff -- even did a diff with /sys/src/9/pc on sources to make sure... --upas-lrjprkcentdismxacdljvnnprw-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 03:53:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 03:53:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9374 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 03:53:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9370 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 03:53:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 03:53:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7D62119B08; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:53:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EDA6719AEC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:52:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] auth without secstore? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-xibceawwmazxzwyypeqaeiukau" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:52:14 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-xibceawwmazxzwyypeqaeiukau Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Secstore is the only reasonable solution. You could use aescbc but you might need to alter it to get its password from somewhere other than the console. --upas-xibceawwmazxzwyypeqaeiukau Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Jun 25 11:05:32 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Wed Jun 25 11:05:29 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9E41D19A53; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 11:05:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2EFFC19A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 11:04:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5PF48eH021467 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:04:08 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5PF47EJ021463 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:04:08 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] auth without secstore? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:04:07 -0600 (MDT) how does one manage bootes' factotum without a secstore? for example, if we create an sshnet key for the auth server using 'auth/rsagen > /mnt/factotum/ctl' the machine will lose the key upon reboot and ssh will not work. is secstore (try saying that fast a few times :) the only solution? andrey --upas-xibceawwmazxzwyypeqaeiukau-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 03:54:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 03:54:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9383 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 03:54:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9379 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 03:54:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 03:54:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D7BAA19AFF; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:54:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A91BE19AF1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:53:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5PIrgeH022117 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:53:42 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5PIrgZT022113 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:53:42 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] problem compiling latest pccpu In-Reply-To: <582450276844cd04de86dd54584ef0e1@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:53:42 -0600 (MDT) I was just reporting the error, since this is a pccpu that is distributed through sources, not one that I've modified myself :) andrey On Wed, 25 Jun 2003, Fco.J.Ballesteros wrote: > I think you no longer need the hack > Put /386/bin/auth/factotum > in your /sys/src/9/pc/pccpu. > > hth From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 04:09:58 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 04:09:58 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9609 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 04:09:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9605 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 04:09:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 04:09:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6504719B10; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 15:09:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6965619B09 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 15:08:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <258e9fe84fb37fa973a571184de132db@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] problem compiling latest pccpu In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-tncoooulhbblxpxrcabwgpyofs" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 15:08:49 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-tncoooulhbblxpxrcabwgpyofs Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fixed. THanks for the bug report. --upas-tncoooulhbblxpxrcabwgpyofs Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Jun 25 14:54:21 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Wed Jun 25 14:54:18 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 985C619AF1; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:54:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A91BE19AF1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:53:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5PIrgeH022117 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:53:42 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5PIrgZT022113 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:53:42 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] problem compiling latest pccpu In-Reply-To: <582450276844cd04de86dd54584ef0e1@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:53:42 -0600 (MDT) I was just reporting the error, since this is a pccpu that is distributed through sources, not one that I've modified myself :) andrey On Wed, 25 Jun 2003, Fco.J.Ballesteros wrote: > I think you no longer need the hack > Put /386/bin/auth/factotum > in your /sys/src/9/pc/pccpu. > > hth --upas-tncoooulhbblxpxrcabwgpyofs-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 04:10:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 04:10:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9619 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 04:10:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9615 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 04:10:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 04:10:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C4B8A19B12; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 15:10:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (orthanc.ab.ca [216.123.230.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5151F19B0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 15:09:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (peregrin.orthanc.ab.ca [192.168.42.6]) by orthanc.ab.ca (8.12.6p2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h5PJ9pUW076919 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:09:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Subject: Re: [9fans] Virtual PC 6 PCI device probe failure Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Lyndon Nerenberg To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <98179258-A740-11D7-8B4F-000393D34A62@orthanc.ab.ca> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:09:50 -0600 On Wednesday, June 25, 2003, at 09:06 AM, jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > This came up a year or so ago, so maybe things have changed, but at > that time > the VirtualPC docs claimed it emulated an Intel Triton chipset, but it > was discovered > it didn't emulate the PCI config registers in that chipset. Technical documentation on the emulated hardware is sparse to non-existent from what I can see. I'm loath to contact their technical support folks, since that's guaranteed to degenerate into a "we don't support the Plan9 release of Windows" conversation. First let's see if the FreeBSD kernel has any luck finding bits ... --lyndon From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 04:56:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 04:56:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10188 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 04:56:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10183 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 04:56:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 04:56:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0898D19AF9; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 15:56:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (orthanc.ab.ca [216.123.230.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0D68B19A60 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 15:55:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (peregrin.orthanc.ab.ca [192.168.42.6]) by orthanc.ab.ca (8.12.6p2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h5PJtaUW077105 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:55:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Subject: Re: [9fans] Virtual PC 6 PCI device probe failure Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Lyndon Nerenberg To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:55:35 -0600 > This matters on Plan9 > because it does raw accesses to probe the PCI space whereas other > operating systems > do BIOS calls to obtain that information. And FreeBSD finds the hardware just fine, using the BIOS interface. I now vaguely remember a discussion here a long while back about why the BIOS wasn't used for this. Was it to do with broken BIOS code? --lyndon From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 04:56:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 04:56:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10200 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 04:56:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10196 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 04:56:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 04:56:45 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6736B19B13; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 15:56:27 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail-in-01.arcor-online.net (mail-in-01.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D156F19A60 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 15:55:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dsl-213-023-033-179.arcor-ip.net (dsl-213-023-033-179.arcor-ip.net [213.23.33.179]) by mail-in-01.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C79C51DF39 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 21:55:34 +0200 (CEST) From: Nikolay Paskov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu User-Agent: KMail/1.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200306252155.39686.n.paskov@gmx.de> Subject: [9fans] inferno & plan9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: n.paskov@gmx.de List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 21:55:39 +0200 I'm wondering is there any way to mount inferno fs under plan9 and vice verse. There is possibility to run inferno with plan9 as host and the plan9 fs will be visible but that's not the idea. Nikolay From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 05:11:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 05:11:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10331 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 05:11:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10326 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 05:11:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 05:11:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA76319B17; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:11:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6655619A60 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:11:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <464f594b88e9e375d2c4d1e3a16f343b@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Virtual PC 6 PCI device probe failure In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:10:58 -0400 more to do with lack of neurons/time on our part. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 05:21:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 05:21:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10412 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 05:21:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10404 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 05:21:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 05:21:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7AB7E19B16; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:21:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0654819AFB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:20:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5PKKjeH022354 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:20:45 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5PKKjiq022350 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:20:45 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Virtual PC 6 PCI device probe failure In-Reply-To: <464f594b88e9e375d2c4d1e3a16f343b@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:20:45 -0600 (MDT) Ron has the greatest desire to fix this, but keeps getting distracted.. Maybe someday... I don't know enough low-level hardware details to do it myself (they don't teach these things in school anymore). It comes down to configuring IRQs on peripheral devices using the BIOS (or whatever's there) instead of trusting what the device thinks it has for an IRQ. andrey On Wed, 25 Jun 2003, David Presotto wrote: > more to do with lack of neurons/time on our part. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 05:24:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 05:24:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10449 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 05:24:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10445 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 05:24:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 05:24:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 84FD719B1D; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:24:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5766919A60 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:23:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8d252482f4dcb984e0356135c1466e5b@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] license Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:23:17 -0400 Sources now contains a new /LICENSE /LICENSE.gpl /sys/lib/postscript/font/NOTICE /lib/font/bit/lucida/NOTICE and /plan9/lib/font/bit/lucida/NOTICE. I'm working on replacing the licenses in the distribution's plan9.iso.bz2 file. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 05:33:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 05:33:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10516 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 05:33:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10512 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 05:33:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 05:33:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8EEAB19B1A; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:33:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (orthanc.ab.ca [216.123.230.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3110719A68 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:32:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (peregrin.orthanc.ab.ca [192.168.42.6]) by orthanc.ab.ca (8.12.6p2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h5PKWOUW077274 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:32:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Subject: Re: [9fans] Virtual PC 6 PCI device probe failure Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Lyndon Nerenberg To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <464f594b88e9e375d2c4d1e3a16f343b@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-Id: <2083CE74-A74C-11D7-8B4F-000393D34A62@orthanc.ab.ca> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:32:23 -0600 On Wednesday, June 25, 2003, at 02:10 PM, David Presotto wrote: > more to do with lack of neurons/time on our part. Okay, I'll dig out my PCI spec's and get to work ... --lyndon From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 05:33:51 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 05:33:51 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10528 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 05:33:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10524 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 05:33:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 05:33:50 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 21DA519B21; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:33:29 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5222619B18 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:32:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h5PKWa58016173 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:32:36 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h5PKWa26011508 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:32:36 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Virtual PC 6 PCI device probe failure In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:32:36 -0600 (MDT) On Wed, 25 Jun 2003, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote: > > This matters on Plan9 > > because it does raw accesses to probe the PCI space whereas other > > operating systems > > do BIOS calls to obtain that information. > > And FreeBSD finds the hardware just fine, using the BIOS interface. > > I now vaguely remember a discussion here a long while back about why > the BIOS wasn't used for this. Was it to do with broken BIOS code? There are lots of reasons not to use the bios, related to broken code, broken tables, ... the list goes on. The one I care about is I don't support those bios calls :-) I prefer what Plan 9 does in this case to what FreeBSD does. More portable. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 05:36:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 05:36:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10552 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 05:36:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10548 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 05:36:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 05:36:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4E45E19B22; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:36:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 61A6919A68 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:35:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Virtual PC 6 PCI device probe failure In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:35:19 -0400 On Wed Jun 25 16:21:29 EDT 2003, mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca wrote: > Ron has the greatest desire to fix this, but keeps getting distracted.. > Maybe someday... > > I don't know enough low-level hardware details to do it myself (they don't > teach these things in school anymore). > > It comes down to configuring IRQs on peripheral devices using the BIOS (or > whatever's there) instead of trusting what the device thinks it has for an > IRQ. > > andrey > > On Wed, 25 Jun 2003, David Presotto wrote: > > > more to do with lack of neurons/time on our part. > > None of this really hits the target. The Plan9 code doesn't use the BIOS calls because it is sometimes used on hardware which doesn't have a BIOS, it just does the work itself. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 05:37:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 05:37:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10576 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 05:37:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10572 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 05:37:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 05:37:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5B85819B28; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:37:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0CC3119B27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:36:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 12718 invoked by uid 991); 25 Jun 2003 20:36:32 -0000 Message-ID: <20030625203632.12717.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> From: "Scott Schwartz" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] ipconfig dhcp vs ndb Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 25 Jun 2003 16:36:32 -0400 ipconfig doesn't seem to use ndb when configuring e.g. ethernet. Is there any reason not to? For a standalone system I think ndb would be easier than hardcoding the numbers in termrc. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 05:40:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 05:40:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10592 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 05:40:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10588 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 05:40:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 05:40:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E8B9F19B2F; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:40:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (orthanc.ab.ca [216.123.230.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E664B19B26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:39:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (peregrin.orthanc.ab.ca [192.168.42.6]) by orthanc.ab.ca (8.12.6p2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h5PKdqUW077330 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:39:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Subject: Re: [9fans] Virtual PC 6 PCI device probe failure Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Lyndon Nerenberg To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <2BAB3889-A74D-11D7-8B4F-000393D34A62@orthanc.ab.ca> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:39:51 -0600 > There are lots of reasons not to use the bios, related to broken code, > broken tables, ... the list goes on. The one I care about is I don't > support those bios calls :-) > > I prefer what Plan 9 does in this case to what FreeBSD does. More > portable. I disagree with the portability argument. FreeBSD boots on every PC I have, including VPC. Plan9 doesn't boot on VPC. The BIOS may be ugly, but it works. Since I have to get Plan9 running under VPC, you can guess which argument wins on this side of the keyboard. --lyndon From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 05:41:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 05:41:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10619 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 05:41:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10615 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 05:41:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 05:41:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E3B219B55; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:41:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6F78D19B32 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:40:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [9fans] Virtual PC 6 PCI device probe failure From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:41:03 -0400 On Wednesday, June 25 16:33:28 EDT 2003, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote: >On Wednesday, June 25, 2003, at 02:10 PM, David Presotto wrote: > >> more to do with lack of neurons/time on our part. > >Okay, I'll dig out my PCI spec's and get to work ... > >--lyndon That won't help if the emulated hardware doesn't emulate the registers needed to access the PCI config space. The best best is to hack the ether driver to assume a device is there if given a port, irq, etc. in the plan9.ini instead of looking for the devices in the PCI space, i.e. make the driver look like an ISA device driver. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 05:43:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 05:43:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10647 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 05:43:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10643 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 05:43:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 05:43:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B9EC419B71; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:43:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [64.71.129.86]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2905B19B38 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:42:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 83E4766B2B; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:42:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Virtual PC 6 PCI device probe failure Message-ID: <20030625204236.GF7193@cassie.foobarbaz.net> References: <2BAB3889-A74D-11D7-8B4F-000393D34A62@orthanc.ab.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2BAB3889-A74D-11D7-8B4F-000393D34A62@orthanc.ab.ca> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:42:36 -0700 On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 02:39:51PM -0600, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote: > > I disagree with the portability argument. FreeBSD boots on every PC I > have, including VPC. Plan9 doesn't boot on VPC. > > The BIOS may be ugly, but it works. Since I have to get Plan9 running > under VPC, you can guess which argument wins on this side of the > keyboard. As jmk pointed out, it doesn't work on anything that doesn't have a bios. Not everything in the world is a PC. -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 05:45:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 05:45:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10657 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 05:45:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10653 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 05:45:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 05:45:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 72B4019B77; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:45:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0C9AC19B75 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:44:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ipconfig dhcp vs ndb In-Reply-To: <20030625203632.12717.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-huzkxxezjemqlzeogwxldjrdtt" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:44:26 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-huzkxxezjemqlzeogwxldjrdtt Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I used to use the ethernet address in ndb to find things. I stopped doing it because many of our systems roam from network to network. If you want, I can throw in a flag that says, use ndb. --upas-huzkxxezjemqlzeogwxldjrdtt Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Jun 25 16:37:22 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Wed Jun 25 16:37:19 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 355E319B27; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:37:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0CC3119B27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:36:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 12718 invoked by uid 991); 25 Jun 2003 20:36:32 -0000 Message-ID: <20030625203632.12717.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> From: "Scott Schwartz" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] ipconfig dhcp vs ndb Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 25 Jun 2003 16:36:32 -0400 ipconfig doesn't seem to use ndb when configuring e.g. ethernet. Is there any reason not to? For a standalone system I think ndb would be easier than hardcoding the numbers in termrc. --upas-huzkxxezjemqlzeogwxldjrdtt-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 05:45:55 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 05:45:55 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10664 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 05:45:54 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10660 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 05:45:54 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 05:45:54 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EAAC919B7B; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:45:26 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (orthanc.ab.ca [216.123.230.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C6E8A19B35 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:44:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (peregrin.orthanc.ab.ca [192.168.42.6]) by orthanc.ab.ca (8.12.6p2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h5PKiwUW077365 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:44:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Subject: Re: [9fans] Virtual PC 6 PCI device probe failure Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Lyndon Nerenberg To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:44:57 -0600 On Wednesday, June 25, 2003, at 02:41 PM, jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > The best best is to hack the ether driver to assume a device is there > if given a port, irq, etc. in the plan9.ini instead of looking for the > devices in the PCI space, i.e. make the driver look like an ISA device > driver. Yes, I was going to try that first. Failing that I'll teach the kernel to use the BIOS to probe (configurable from plan9.ini so the existing code can stay intact for non-BIOSed hardware). --lyndon From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 05:50:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 05:50:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10752 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 05:50:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10748 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 05:50:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 05:50:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8EF4B19B7C; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:50:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-08.noos.net [212.198.2.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DAE3C19B2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:49:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 25296299 invoked by uid 0); 25 Jun 2003 20:49:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.210]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.77 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Jun 2003 20:49:19 -0000 Message-ID: <002a01c33b5b$3fa75720$d2944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <2BAB3889-A74D-11D7-8B4F-000393D34A62@orthanc.ab.ca> Subject: Re: [9fans] Virtual PC 6 PCI device probe failure MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:49:19 +0200 > I disagree with the portability argument. FreeBSD boots on every PC I > have, including VPC. Plan9 doesn't boot on VPC. yes this is the 'army of programmers' argument -- it just doesn't hold up. sure, if you spend enough time and effort you'll be able to boot off every known piece of horrible PC hardware on the face of the planet and that quickly leads to the 2M SLOC which is the linix kernel. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 05:51:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 05:51:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10775 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 05:51:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10771 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 05:51:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 05:51:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2D93919B86; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:51:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A937419B7D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:50:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 13086 invoked by uid 991); 25 Jun 2003 20:50:26 -0000 Message-ID: <20030625205026.13085.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ipconfig dhcp vs ndb In-Reply-To: Message from David Presotto of "Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:44:26 EDT." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:50:26 -0400 > If you want, I can throw in a flag that says, use ndb. That'd be great. Then termrc.local can arrange to pass it to ipconfig. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 06:05:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 06:05:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10914 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 06:05:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10910 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 06:05:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 06:05:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0645C19B2C; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 17:05:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 377D419B1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 17:04:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h5PL4C58030391 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 15:04:12 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h5PL4C26013109 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 15:04:12 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Virtual PC 6 PCI device probe failure In-Reply-To: <2BAB3889-A74D-11D7-8B4F-000393D34A62@orthanc.ab.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 15:04:11 -0600 (MDT) On Wed, 25 Jun 2003, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote: > I disagree with the portability argument. FreeBSD boots on every PC I > have, including VPC. Plan9 doesn't boot on VPC. freebsd won't boot on about 1500 of the PCs I have. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 06:24:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 06:24:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11108 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 06:24:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11104 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 06:24:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 06:24:37 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EF96619B68; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 17:24:18 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from T-JOHNL (unknown [131.107.3.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C433F19B19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 17:23:10 -0400 (EDT) From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="CSmtpMsgPart123X456_000_001C1F09" Message-Id: <20030625212310.C433F19B19@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] Re: Application Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:23:10 --0700 This is a multipart message in MIME format --CSmtpMsgPart123X456_000_001C1F09 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ------------------ Virus Warning Message (on niscan1) Found virus WORM_SOBIG.E in file details.pif (in your_details.zip) The uncleanable file your_details.zip is moved to /etc/iscan/virus/vir5rnsIb. If you have questions, contact administrator. --------------------------------------------------------- --CSmtpMsgPart123X456_000_001C1F09 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please see the attached zip file for details. --CSmtpMsgPart123X456_000_001C1F09 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ------------------ Virus Warning Message (on niscan1) your_details.zip is removed from here because it contains a virus. --------------------------------------------------------- --CSmtpMsgPart123X456_000_001C1F09-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 06:25:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 06:25:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11199 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 06:25:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11194 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 06:25:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 06:25:37 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0BF1519B29; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 17:25:22 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from MIMESWEEPER.pigroup.co.uk (unknown [194.203.134.3]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8B55D19B26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 17:24:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from eagle.pigroup.co.uk (unverified) by MIMESWEEPER.pigroup.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.3.1) with ESMTP id ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:25:11 +0100 Received: by eagle.pigroup.co.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:26:52 +0100 Message-ID: From: "GroupShield for Exchange (KITE)" To: "'sales@yahoo.com.ua'" , "'9fans@cse.psu.edu'" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_000_01C33B60.7D3154B0" Subject: [9fans] ALERT - GroupShield ticket number OA55_1056576409_KITE_1 was gen erated Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:26:49 +0100 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_000_01C33B60.7D3154B0 Content-Type: text/plain Action Taken: The attachment was quarantined from the message and replaced with a text file informing the recipient of the action taken. To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu <9fans@cse.psu.edu> From: sales@yahoo.com.ua Sent: 1303665408,29571877 Subject: [9fans] Re: Application Attachment Details:- Attachment Name: your_details.zip File: your_details.zip Infected? Yes Repaired? No Blocked? No Deleted? 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X-Authenticated-Connect: 203.51.74.192 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 19:48:55(EDT) on June 25, 2003 X-HELO-From: cc77109e X-Mail-From: X-Sender-IP-Address: 203.51.74.192 Message-ID: <00c901c33b74$8f4429c0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200306252155.39686.n.paskov@gmx.de> Subject: Re: [9fans] inferno & plan9 Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 09:49:59 +1000 i hacked srvold9p into a srvstyx so that we could import froggies (which run research inferno) into the plan9 namespace. i'll try and find the src if this is what you want. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nikolay Paskov" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 5:55 AM Subject: [9fans] inferno & plan9 > I'm wondering is there any way to mount inferno fs under plan9 and vice verse. > There is possibility to run inferno with plan9 as host and the plan9 fs will > be visible but that's not the idea. > > Nikolay > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 09:09:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 09:09:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13931 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 09:09:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13927 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 09:09:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 09:09:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F032619B26; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 20:09:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (orthanc.ab.ca [216.123.230.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0713119A2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 20:08:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (peregrin.orthanc.ab.ca [192.168.42.6]) by orthanc.ab.ca (8.12.6p2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h5Q08hUW078118 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 18:08:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Subject: Re: [9fans] Virtual PC 6 PCI device probe failure Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Lyndon Nerenberg To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <58D0CC64-A76A-11D7-8B4F-000393D34A62@orthanc.ab.ca> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 18:08:42 -0600 On Wednesday, June 25, 2003, at 03:04 PM, ron minnich wrote: > freebsd won't boot on about 1500 of the PCs I have. Point taken. But it still doesn't boot on my gear, so I'll fix that. If I can do it such that other hardware can take advantage if it, well, good on it. --lyndon From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 09:48:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 09:48:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15552 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 09:48:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15547 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 09:48:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 09:48:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8DB4819B0E; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 20:48:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mta02ps.bigpond.com (mta02ps.bigpond.com [144.135.25.134]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8A89019B20 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 20:47:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from w2000 ([144.135.25.84]) by mta02ps.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta02ps Jul 16 2002 22:47:55) with SMTP id HH2CUD00.8GC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:47:01 +1000 Received: from cpe-138-130-40-97.nsw.bigpond.net.au ([138.130.40.97]) by psmam06bpa.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.2g 116/67611569); 26 Jun 2003 10:47:03 Message-ID: <000901c33b7c$79440430$6401a8c0@w2000> From: "Graham Gallagher" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200306252155.39686.n.paskov@gmx.de> <00c901c33b74$8f4429c0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> Subject: Re: [9fans] inferno & plan9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:47:09 +1000 sounds excellent! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [9fans] inferno & plan9 > i hacked srvold9p into a srvstyx so that we could import froggies > (which run research inferno) into the plan9 namespace. > i'll try and find the src if this is what you want. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nikolay Paskov" > To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> > Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 5:55 AM > Subject: [9fans] inferno & plan9 > > > > I'm wondering is there any way to mount inferno fs under plan9 and vice verse. > > There is possibility to run inferno with plan9 as host and the plan9 fs will > > be visible but that's not the idea. > > > > Nikolay > > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 11:11:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 11:11:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19905 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 11:11:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19886 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 11:11:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 11:11:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AEFC819B2E; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:11:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EBF4719A6F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:10:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Jun 25 22:10:56 EDT 2003 Received: from 209.23.14.76 ([209.23.14.76]) by plan9; Wed Jun 25 22:10:54 EDT 2003 Message-ID: From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] big pull In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 21:57:56 -0400 > Does this log ever get truncated or does it grow without bounds? It gets truncated occasionally. There's a target in /sys/lib/dist/mkfile if you're interested. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 11:12:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 11:12:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19946 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 11:12:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19942 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 11:12:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 11:12:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0115419B11; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:12:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 62A3419988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:11:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Jun 25 22:11:03 EDT 2003 Received: from 209.23.14.76 ([209.23.14.76]) by plan9; Wed Jun 25 22:11:01 EDT 2003 Message-ID: From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mail problems.. In-Reply-To: <3bcb54139c10722082518add44b17105@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 21:58:37 -0400 > By default, "periodically" means every 60 seconds, which is not a very > good choice if you have a dial-up connection or a busy mail server (or > both). You can change this to N seconds by writing to /mail/fs/mbox/ctl > the (undocumented?) control message 'refresh N'. Is this too frequent or not frequent enough? I usually do 15 seconds. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 11:12:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 11:12:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19961 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 11:12:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19955 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 11:12:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 11:12:41 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8352919B31; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:12:26 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9657E19988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:11:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Jun 25 22:11:17 EDT 2003 Received: from 209.23.14.76 ([209.23.14.76]) by plan9; Wed Jun 25 22:11:14 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <66772b65b3fba65618752fbd99e28e55@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] minor problem -- the page is readable In-Reply-To: <3EF909A7.8060201@acm.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:00:56 -0400 > By the way, if the window in which a page is > displayed is moved, just to the right a little, > then the panning is very slow and jerky. It is > smooth and fast if the window is not moved. It's not the motion but the fact that you just moved the window partially off the screen. This means that every operation pushes the on-screen bits to the backing store and then does the operation there and brings the bits back. It's much worse. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 11:13:13 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 11:13:13 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20003 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 11:13:12 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19999 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 11:13:12 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 11:13:12 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1236719B42; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:12:39 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CF3CF19ADB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:11:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Jun 25 22:11:10 EDT 2003 Received: from 209.23.14.76 ([209.23.14.76]) by plan9; Wed Jun 25 22:11:07 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <050b40a7e24813021540a00585ab200f@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] big pull In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 21:59:47 -0400 > By the way, the problem reported by Nemo before of fossil's > memory leak has been fixed in the big pull? Or the problem > was not recognized? Reproduce it and run leak, please. Until then, there's little we can do. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 11:22:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 11:22:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20453 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 11:22:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20449 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 11:22:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 11:22:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4463119B25; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:22:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E94ED19ADB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:21:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 15422 invoked by uid 991); 26 Jun 2003 02:21:11 -0000 Message-ID: <20030626022111.15421.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mail problems.. In-Reply-To: Message from "Russ Cox" of "Wed, 25 Jun 2003 21:58:37 EDT." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:21:11 -0400 > Is this too frequent or not frequent enough? I usually do 15 seconds. Our computer center won't let you poll the POP server more often than once every few minutes. Gripe: why don't ISPs pick some way to notify POP users, instead of making them poll. comsat wasn't rocket science, and all the instant messager programs these days are a plausible alternative. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 11:31:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 11:31:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20815 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 11:31:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20805 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 11:31:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 11:31:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C9F6219B3A; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:31:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-02.noos.net [212.198.2.71]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6C78C19B03 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:30:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 7572006 invoked by uid 0); 26 Jun 2003 02:30:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.210]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.71 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 26 Jun 2003 02:30:06 -0000 Message-ID: <001501c33b8a$db2eaa20$d2944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030626022111.15421.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] mail problems.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 04:30:05 +0200 > Gripe: why don't ISPs pick some way to notify POP users, instead of > making them poll. comsat wasn't rocket science, and all the instant > messager programs these days are a plausible alternative. hmm, i'd like to hear your design that would be reliable and scale to thousands of users. iirc, comsat was a toy that ran on old machines in very limited user environments. reliable scaleability is a hard problem. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 11:38:06 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 11:38:06 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21023 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 11:37:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21010 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 11:37:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 11:37:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CD4C219B7D; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:37:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0AC9F19988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:36:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 15563 invoked by uid 991); 26 Jun 2003 02:36:58 -0000 Message-ID: <20030626023658.15562.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mail problems.. In-Reply-To: Message from "boyd, rounin" of "Thu, 26 Jun 2003 04:30:05 +0200." <001501c33b8a$db2eaa20$d2944251@insultant.net> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:36:58 -0400 | hmm, i'd like to hear your design that would be reliable and scale | to thousands of users. How about zephyr? Or AIM? | reliable scaleability is a hard problem. Fine, so do best effort delivery and retry every 10 minutes. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 11:45:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 11:45:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21419 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 11:45:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21414 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 11:45:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 11:45:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 15E1B19B80; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:45:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-06.noos.net [212.198.2.75]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6C9CC19B7E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:44:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 17977920 invoked by uid 0); 26 Jun 2003 02:44:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.210]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.75 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 26 Jun 2003 02:44:06 -0000 Message-ID: <001d01c33b8c$cfd04920$d2944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030626023658.15562.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] mail problems.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 04:44:05 +0200 > Fine, so do best effort delivery and retry every 10 minutes. best effort? no way. maybe this might be an interesting read? http://www.strakt.com/~jacob/ifc-accu.ps From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 12:08:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 12:08:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22301 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 12:08:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22296 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 12:08:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 12:08:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 06C3D19988; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:08:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2973919A11 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:07:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 15756 invoked by uid 991); 26 Jun 2003 03:07:34 -0000 Message-ID: <20030626030733.15755.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mail problems.. In-Reply-To: Message from "boyd, rounin" of "Thu, 26 Jun 2003 04:44:05 +0200." <001d01c33b8c$cfd04920$d2944251@insultant.net> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:07:33 -0400 Oh, come on... just to indicate that email is waiting? A udp packet once in a while is more than enough. It's all fantasy anyway. People won't stop polling, because their pop clients will continue to let them. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 12:14:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 12:14:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22462 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 12:14:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22458 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 12:14:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 12:14:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D72C19A11; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:14:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-09.noos.net [212.198.2.80]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0772C19B19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:13:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 73563283 invoked by uid 0); 26 Jun 2003 03:13:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.210]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.80 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 26 Jun 2003 03:13:49 -0000 Message-ID: <002801c33b90$f6981fc0$d2944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030626030733.15755.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] mail problems.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 05:13:49 +0200 > Oh, come on... just to indicate that email is waiting? > A udp packet once in a while is more than enough. UDP? is that reliable? does it scale? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 12:23:10 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 12:23:10 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22759 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 12:22:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22752 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 12:22:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 12:22:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C635519B81; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:22:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 980F719B19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:21:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00975 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:21:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5Q3Lh713241 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:21:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306260321.h5Q3Lh713241@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mail problems.. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 26 Jun 2003 05:13:49 +0200." <002801c33b90$f6981fc0$d2944251@insultant.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:21:43 -0400 I think Scott's point is that, for this application, it doesn't matter. A UDP packet that said, ``hey, you just got mail,'' would certainly scale to thousands of users. Unfortunately, no user agent software supports such a thing, and most over-zealous firewall administrators would block it anyway. In that case, one could certainly fallback to polling. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 12:33:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 12:33:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23272 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 12:33:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23268 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 12:33:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 12:33:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5EAA319B8B; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:33:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-03.noos.net [212.198.2.72]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E99419B39 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:32:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 15767807 invoked by uid 0); 26 Jun 2003 03:32:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.210]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.72 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 26 Jun 2003 03:32:47 -0000 Message-ID: <004201c33b93$9c7747c0$d2944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200306260321.h5Q3Lh713241@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] mail problems.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 05:32:46 +0200 the whole thing is a fiasco. it is next to impossible to get mail notification 'right' and if it were my firewall(s) next to nothing would be allowed to wander through. isn't that the point? having said that, firewalls are are just all wrong. tomorrow is 'will do tcp/ip for food day', plus a chat to the Swedish Embassy -- that should be fun :) gawd, tcp is 20+ years old iirc ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 12:36:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 12:36:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23400 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 12:36:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23395 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 12:36:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 12:36:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB2EB19B84; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:36:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 698FF19B19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:35:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5Q3ZReH022777 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 21:35:27 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5Q3ZRnP022773 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 21:35:27 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mail problems.. In-Reply-To: <004201c33b93$9c7747c0$d2944251@insultant.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 21:35:27 -0600 (MDT) On Thu, 26 Jun 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > the whole thing is a fiasco. it is next to impossible to get mail > notification 'right' mail notification seems to work right with plumbing... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 12:42:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 12:42:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23703 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 12:42:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23698 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 12:42:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 12:42:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2061119B3E; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:42:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-02.noos.net [212.198.2.71]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1560219A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:41:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 7640788 invoked by uid 0); 26 Jun 2003 03:41:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.210]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.71 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 26 Jun 2003 03:41:51 -0000 Message-ID: <005a01c33b94$e0cdfb20$d2944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] mail problems.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 05:41:50 +0200 > mail notification seems to work right with plumbing... i'm thinking on a slightly more global scale ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 12:54:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 12:54:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24064 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 12:54:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24057 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 12:54:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 12:54:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 59CF919B43; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:54:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9FEA319A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:53:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 15965 invoked by uid 991); 26 Jun 2003 03:53:41 -0000 Message-ID: <20030626035341.15964.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mail problems.. In-Reply-To: Message from "boyd, rounin" of "Thu, 26 Jun 2003 05:13:49 +0200." <002801c33b90$f6981fc0$d2944251@insultant.net> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:53:41 -0400 | > Oh, come on... just to indicate that email is waiting? | > A udp packet once in a while is more than enough. | | UDP? is that reliable? does it scale? Sure. It works fine for much larger things, like DNS and AIM. It's just the right tool for this job. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 13:04:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 13:04:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24657 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 13:04:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24652 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 13:04:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 13:04:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8112219B85; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 00:04:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6FF4C19A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 00:03:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5Q43DeH022806 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:03:13 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5Q43Dd3022802 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:03:13 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mail problems.. In-Reply-To: <005a01c33b94$e0cdfb20$d2944251@insultant.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:03:13 -0600 (MDT) On Thu, 26 Jun 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > > mail notification seems to work right with plumbing... > > i'm thinking on a slightly more global scale ... > i'm sorry, i was thinking on a scale appropriate for this list :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 14:15:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 14:15:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28259 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 14:15:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28246 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 14:15:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 14:15:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A4AC19B8D; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 01:15:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2966819B45 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 01:14:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <76587574b1d78723960651748e6d8b10@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mail problems.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <004201c33b93$9c7747c0$d2944251@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:15:07 +0900 > gawd, tcp is 20+ years old iirc ... then, what is your solution? Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 17:11:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 17:11:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3474 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 17:11:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3469 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 17:11:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 17:11:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2D38619B44; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 04:11:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 55A6619A2D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 04:10:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3ec3b42a43aea90a3b142db0014cb1f7@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] big pull From: Fco.J.Ballesteros From: nemo@plan9.escet.urjc.es In-Reply-To: <050b40a7e24813021540a00585ab200f@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-sewhpjnxmtuugzgtdccmvwabiy" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:10:28 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-sewhpjnxmtuugzgtdccmvwabiy Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As I said in a previous mail, I think there's actually no real problem. After a few days fossil does not grow more than other programs. I'm sorry if I didnt make it clear before. --upas-sewhpjnxmtuugzgtdccmvwabiy Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Thu Jun 26 04:13:18 MDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1236719B42; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:12:39 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CF3CF19ADB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:11:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Jun 25 22:11:10 EDT 2003 Received: from 209.23.14.76 ([209.23.14.76]) by plan9; Wed Jun 25 22:11:07 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <050b40a7e24813021540a00585ab200f@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] big pull In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 21:59:47 -0400 > By the way, the problem reported by Nemo before of fossil's > memory leak has been fixed in the big pull? Or the problem > was not recognized? Reproduce it and run leak, please. Until then, there's little we can do. Russ --upas-sewhpjnxmtuugzgtdccmvwabiy-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 17:19:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 17:19:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3723 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 17:19:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3717 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 17:19:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 17:19:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 095A019B33; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 04:19:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 00D9419A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 04:18:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <465bf88064ed8d81ca4b21bda4c52ed0@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Fco.J.Ballesteros From: nemo@plan9.escet.urjc.es MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] aux/zerotrunc Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:18:53 +0200 Is aux/zerotrunc missing? I tried fossil/conf and it calls aux/zerotrunc. But I couldnt find such program. thanks From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 17:31:04 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 17:31:04 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4119 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 17:30:54 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4110 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 17:30:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 17:30:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F013519B52; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 04:30:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from hamnavoe (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 37B1219B41 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 04:29:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <62909f4ae3027e3b5e9f598052103d93@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mail problems.. From: Richard Miller From: miller@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 09:29:46 +0100 >> By default, "periodically" means every 60 seconds, which is not a very >> good choice if you have a dial-up connection or a busy mail server (or >> both). You can change this to N seconds by writing to /mail/fs/mbox/ctl >> the (undocumented?) control message 'refresh N'. > > Is this too frequent or not frequent enough? I usually do 15 seconds. Too frequent with a dial-up connection - particularly in the UK where you get charged by the minute for every call (even on the local exchange). Too frequent for a server like pop3.demon.co.uk, which at busy times can take two or three minutes just to login and STAT. Anyway, my solution to the notifcation problem, now that I have broadband, is to switch to a provider who can forward mail directly by SMTP. -- Richard From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 17:47:51 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 17:47:51 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4710 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 17:47:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4696 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 17:47:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 17:47:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1FB3D19B50; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 04:47:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from larch (unknown [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E920C19A69 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 04:46:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <70673503f4b35d1034841136aab03874@snellwilcox.com> From: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mail problems.. In-Reply-To: <2937630799@snellwilcox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ifsbdsfjkeuvjfevrylkehlmuw" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 09:46:35 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ifsbdsfjkeuvjfevrylkehlmuw Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I used to scan POP every 45 secs but got shouted at by the TI dep. I was asked to scan no more than every 5 mins - thought our POP3 server is a CCmail database so enough said (sigh) -Steve --upas-ifsbdsfjkeuvjfevrylkehlmuw Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 02:58:37 +0100 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu bcc: "Steve Simon" From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sender: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Importance: normal Priority: normal Subject: Re: [9fans] mail problems.. Message-Id: <2937630799@snellwilcox.com> X-MIME-Engine: v0.90 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Id: <2937630799-1@snellwilcox.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > By default, "periodically" means every 60 seconds, which is not a very > good choice if you have a dial-up connection or a busy mail server (or > both). You can change this to N seconds by writing to /mail/fs/mbox/ctl > the (undocumented?) control message 'refresh N'. Is this too frequent or not frequent enough? I usually do 15 seconds. Russ --upas-ifsbdsfjkeuvjfevrylkehlmuw-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 18:12:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 18:12:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5815 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 18:12:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5810 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 18:12:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 18:12:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5C1F819A05; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 05:12:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from hamnavoe (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6626C19B4A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 05:11:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5635791d46413e9c348d67259bb0eb6a@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] big pull From: Richard Miller From: miller@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:11:52 +0100 >> Does this log ever get truncated or does it grow without bounds? > > It gets truncated occasionally. There's a target > in /sys/lib/dist/mkfile if you're interested. I see - very neat. I was worried that everyone would have to synchronise with sources before you could safely truncate the log. But of course you only need to maintain the most recent event for each file. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 19:10:55 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 19:10:55 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7711 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 19:10:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7707 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 19:10:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 19:10:43 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F3BD119B59; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 06:10:17 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from omr-m04.mx.aol.com (omr-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.5]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1EB8819A7C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 06:09:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rly-xd01.mx.aol.com (rly-xd01.mail.aol.com [172.20.105.166]) by omr-m04.mx.aol.com (v90_r2.6) with ESMTP id RELAYIN5-0626060859; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 06:08:59 2000 Received: from localhost (localhost) by rly-xd01.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/AOL-5.0.0) with internal id GAC18363; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 06:08:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Message-Id: <200306261008.GAC18363@rly-xd01.mx.aol.com> To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="GAC18363.1056622139/rly-xd01.mx.aol.com" Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) Subject: [9fans] Returned mail: User unknown Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 06:08:59 -0400 (EDT) This is a MIME-encapsulated message --GAC18363.1056622139/rly-xd01.mx.aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ------------------ Virus Warning Message (on niscan1) Found virus WORM_SOBIG.E in file details.pif (in your_details.zip) The uncleanable file your_details.zip is moved to /etc/iscan/virus/vir1KDyeI. If you have questions, contact administrator. --------------------------------------------------------- --GAC18363.1056622139/rly-xd01.mx.aol.com The original message was received at Thu, 26 Jun 2003 06:08:12 -0400 (EDT) from 209-242-9-175.dls.net [209.242.9.175] *** ATTENTION *** Your e-mail is being returned to you because there was a problem with its delivery. The address which was undeliverable is listed in the section labeled: "----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----". The reason your mail is being returned to you is listed in the section labeled: "----- Transcript of Session Follows -----". The line beginning with "<<<" describes the specific reason your e-mail could not be delivered. The next line contains a second error message which is a general translation for other e-mail servers. Please direct further questions regarding this message to your e-mail administrator. --AOL Postmaster ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to air-xd03.mail.aol.com.: >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 MAILBOX NOT FOUND 550 ... User unknown --GAC18363.1056622139/rly-xd01.mx.aol.com Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; rly-xd01.mx.aol.com Arrival-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 06:08:12 -0400 (EDT) Final-Recipient: RFC822; cindydoef@aol.com Action: failed Status: 2.0.0 Remote-MTA: DNS; air-xd03.mail.aol.com Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 250 OK Last-Attempt-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 06:08:59 -0400 (EDT) --GAC18363.1056622139/rly-xd01.mx.aol.com Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from ILYA (209-242-9-175.dls.net [209.242.9.175]) by rly-xd01.mx.aol.com (v94.27) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINXD17-1013efac60b2ff; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 06:08:11 -0400 From: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> To: Subject: Re: Movie Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 5:01:22 --0500 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="CSmtpMsgPart123X456_000_07B70EC5" X-AOL-IP: 209.242.9.175 Message-ID: <200306260608.1013efac60b2ff@rly-xd01.mx.aol.com> This is a multipart message in MIME format --CSmtpMsgPart123X456_000_07B70EC5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please see the attached zip file for details. --CSmtpMsgPart123X456_000_07B70EC5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ------------------ Virus Warning Message (on niscan1) your_details.zip is removed from here because it contains a virus. --------------------------------------------------------- --CSmtpMsgPart123X456_000_07B70EC5-- --GAC18363.1056622139/rly-xd01.mx.aol.com-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 19:37:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 19:37:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8684 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 19:37:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8680 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 19:37:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 19:37:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1387119B5C; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 06:37:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-05.noos.net [212.198.2.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E1A3219A7C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 06:36:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 15409397 invoked by uid 0); 26 Jun 2003 10:36:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.210]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.74 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 26 Jun 2003 10:36:41 -0000 Message-ID: <009d01c33bce$d4312c40$d2944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <76587574b1d78723960651748e6d8b10@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> Subject: Re: [9fans] mail problems.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:36:40 +0200 > then, what is your solution? specification of the problem would be a start. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 20:00:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 20:00:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9374 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 20:00:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9370 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 20:00:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 20:00:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D7E2119B5E; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 07:00:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.171]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5357B19B3C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 06:59:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [212.227.126.162] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 19VUTI-0006ru-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:59:20 +0200 Received: from [219.65.139.118] (helo=agni) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 19VUTG-0001Fd-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:59:19 +0200 From: Martin C.Atkins To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] more silly fossil questions Message-Id: <20030626162859.75ff1883.martin@mca-ltd.com> In-Reply-To: <200306250142.h5P1gK707307@augusta.math.psu.edu> References: <3EF8F190.6070601@nospam.com> <200306250142.h5P1gK707307@augusta.math.psu.edu> Organization: Mission Critical Applications Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.4claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 16:28:59 +0530 On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:42:20 -0400 Dan Cross wrote: > > > With luck, that'll change after I get back from India. > > > > To India in the summer? Surely, you will change when you get back from > > India ;-) (yes, I know parts of India very well) > > Yeah. South India no less, to visit with my girlfriend's family. Hey, > if I drop a couple of pounds sweating while I'm there that might be > good. > No luck there :-) - it's the rainy season - mostly not too hot during the day, and cool during the night. Oh, and occasionally it rains! (In Bangalore, at least, where I am - are you coming to Bangalore?) > - Dan C. > Martin -- Martin C. Atkins martin@mca-ltd.com Mission Critical Applications Ltd, U.K. http://www.mca-ltd.com{/,/martin} From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 20:13:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 20:13:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9684 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 20:13:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9678 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 20:13:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 20:13:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A98C219B82; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 07:13:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-05.noos.net [212.198.2.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BFBE519B8A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 07:12:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 15419409 invoked by uid 0); 26 Jun 2003 11:12:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.210]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.74 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 26 Jun 2003 11:12:15 -0000 Message-ID: <010801c33bd3$cc87dca0$d2944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030626035341.15964.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] mail problems.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 13:12:14 +0200 > Sure. It works fine for much larger things, like DNS and AIM. It's just > the right tool for this job. http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/31392.html From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 20:52:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 20:52:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10711 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 20:52:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10707 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 20:52:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 20:52:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2D97A19B90; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 07:52:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CAAE719B3C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 07:51:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h5QBhEnp028465 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 13:43:17 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h5QBhAvZ028464 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 13:43:10 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mail problems.. Message-ID: <20030626134306.A28100@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 13:43:07 +0200 I thought I had a problem, and now I have to establish the nature of the problem. Presumably some inconsistency between the kernel, fossil and venti. I have just rebuilt the fossil and venti services, mkfs/mkext'd the most recent image I have available (May 20th or thereabouts) onto the fossil, then ran 'snap -a' as suggested in the wiki. A fossil/flchk produces two bad blocks: warn: unreacheable block: addr 94d0 type 8 tag 26fba734 state 5,Venti epoch 2 close 4294967295 warn: unreacheable block: addr 94d1 type 8 tag 3ee3966b state 5,Venti epoch 2 close 4294967295 Should I be looking to venti or fossil for this problem? This is running off a slightly older snapshot, I think. I'm using a modified 9pccpu with a SCSI-based kfs. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 21:18:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 21:18:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11305 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 21:18:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11301 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 21:18:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 21:18:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2202B19A33; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 08:18:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0CB5B19B89 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 08:17:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h5QC8Qnp028511 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:08:27 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h5QC8OxP028510 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:08:24 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Fossil problems (Was: mail problems..) Message-ID: <20030626140819.B28100@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030626134306.A28100@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <20030626134306.A28100@cackle.proxima.alt.za>; from Lucio De Re on Thu, Jun 26, 2003 at 01:43:07PM +0200 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:08:20 +0200 Oops, I really blundered with this one. I changed the subject header... ++L On Thu, Jun 26, 2003 at 01:43:07PM +0200, Lucio De Re wrote: > > I thought I had a problem, and now I have to establish the nature of > the problem. Presumably some inconsistency between the kernel, fossil > and venti. > > I have just rebuilt the fossil and venti services, mkfs/mkext'd the > most recent image I have available (May 20th or thereabouts) onto the > fossil, then ran 'snap -a' as suggested in the wiki. > > A fossil/flchk produces two bad blocks: > > warn: unreacheable block: addr 94d0 type 8 tag 26fba734 state 5,Venti epoch 2 close 4294967295 > warn: unreacheable block: addr 94d1 type 8 tag 3ee3966b state 5,Venti epoch 2 close 4294967295 > > Should I be looking to venti or fossil for this problem? > > This is running off a slightly older snapshot, I think. I'm using a > modified 9pccpu with a SCSI-based kfs. > > ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 22:18:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 22:18:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12588 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 22:18:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12584 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 22:18:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 22:18:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 35D7019B89; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 09:18:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E7C6119B5A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 09:17:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 32659 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 13:17:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO proweb.co.uk) (192.168.1.100) by juice.thebigchoice.com with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 13:17:16 -0000 Message-ID: <3EFAF25C.6030203@proweb.co.uk> From: matt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mail problems.. References: <20030626035341.15964.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> <010801c33bd3$cc87dca0$d2944251@insultant.net> In-Reply-To: <010801c33bd3$cc87dca0$d2944251@insultant.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:17:16 +0100 boyd, rounin wrote: >>Sure. It works fine for much larger things, like DNS and AIM. It's just >>the right tool for this job. >> >> > >http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/31392.html > That seems to suggest that UDP works for billions of daily DNS requests. Sounds like a few thousand mail clients per server would be well with its capability. It might make you reconsider knowing that Hotmail / Passport / MSN Messenger offer that exact service. Messenger notifies you if you have any Hotmail mail arrive, if that isn't a proof of concept then I don't know what you would consider. If the Beast can make it work for Hotmail & Windows then surely using distributed computing should make it all the easier and less resource hungry. Sounds to me that this would be the sort of application for which the use of Secstore/Factotum is intended. Authenticating the sender will be mandated for communications with Government somewhere soon, be that tax returns or road tolls or something. Microsoft is already trying to get Passport as the de-facto : http://theregister.co.uk/content/archive/24938.html From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 22:34:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 22:34:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12899 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 22:34:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12895 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 22:34:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 22:34:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0983C19B3C; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 09:34:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-11.noos.net [212.198.2.82]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 50C7419B69 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 09:33:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 96182707 invoked by uid 0); 26 Jun 2003 13:33:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.210]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.82 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 26 Jun 2003 13:33:37 -0000 Message-ID: <015601c33be7$8b8773a0$d2944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030626035341.15964.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> <010801c33bd3$cc87dca0$d2944251@insultant.net> <3EFAF25C.6030203@proweb.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] mail problems.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:33:32 +0200 > That seems to suggest that UDP works for billions of daily DNS requests. sure, and the reason it works is cos of the TCP zone transfers that populate the planet with a bunch of local caches. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 22:46:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 22:46:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13133 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 22:46:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13129 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 22:46:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 22:46:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9085119B93; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 09:46:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B55C719B8F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 09:45:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17785 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 09:45:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5QDjf715310 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 09:45:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306261345.h5QDjf715310@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] more silly fossil questions In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 26 Jun 2003 16:28:59 +0530." <20030626162859.75ff1883.martin@mca-ltd.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 09:45:40 -0400 > > Yeah. South India no less, to visit with my girlfriend's family. Hey, > > if I drop a couple of pounds sweating while I'm there that might be > > good. > > No luck there :-) - it's the rainy season - mostly not too hot during the > day, and cool during the night. Oh, and occasionally it rains! (In > Bangalore, at least, where I am - are you coming to Bangalore?) Actually, yes.... But for most of the time I'll be in Karnataka, I'll probably be in Mysore and Bandipur national forest. Hmm, maybe we can have a ``9fans in South India meeting.'' - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 23:01:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 23:01:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13344 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 23:01:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13339 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 23:01:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 23:01:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 109C119B97; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:01:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-02.noos.net [212.198.2.71]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 396AC19B54 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:00:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 7903658 invoked by uid 0); 26 Jun 2003 14:00:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.210]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.71 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 26 Jun 2003 14:00:06 -0000 Message-ID: <016001c33beb$3ec5a740$d2944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200306261345.h5QDjf715310@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] more silly fossil questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 16:00:03 +0200 > > Bangalore, at least, where I am - are you coming to Bangalore?) > > Actually, yes.... make sure you bring back some M1A1 Bangalore Torpedos. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 23:24:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 23:24:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13794 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 23:24:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13790 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 23:24:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 23:24:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 718DB19B91; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:24:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id D387719B91 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:23:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 43524 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 14:23:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO proweb.co.uk) (192.168.1.100) by juice.thebigchoice.com with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 14:23:03 -0000 Message-ID: <3EFB01C7.8090603@proweb.co.uk> From: matt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mail problems.. References: <20030626035341.15964.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> <010801c33bd3$cc87dca0$d2944251@insultant.net> <3EFAF25C.6030203@proweb.co.uk> <015601c33be7$8b8773a0$d2944251@insultant.net> In-Reply-To: <015601c33be7$8b8773a0$d2944251@insultant.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:23:03 +0100 boyd, rounin wrote: >>That seems to suggest that UDP works for billions of daily DNS requests. >> >> > >sure, and the reason it works is cos of the TCP zone transfers that populate >the planet with a bunch of local caches. > sooo, that's exactly what mail servers are, local caches an email address is a handle used to retrieve a list of local caches from the MX records but you know all this. Your original argument was against the local cache pushing something to the client over UDP because UDP doesn't scale. > hmm, i'd like to hear your design that would be reliable and scale to thousands of users. Well, you've heard the design and Microsoft already successfully scale it to well over thousands of users all day every day. Dan C said : > A UDP packet that said, ``hey, you just got mail,'' would certainly scale to thousands of users. > Unfortunately, no user agent software supports such a thing, Sorry Dan, although I don't know which client I'm pretty sure we can draw conclusions from Exchange supporting the mechanism similar to the one described : http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb%3Ben-us%3B264035 MORE INFORMATION New mail notification messages are sent by means of UDP packets from the server to the client. The ports used for this notification are set by the client when the client logs on to the information store. As part of the log on process to the information store, the client tells the server the IP address and port where it expects to receive new mail notification messages. This will be a UDP port in the 1024-65535 range. When the server receives a mail message for a mailbox that a client is logged on to, it opens a UDP port dynamically, and sends a packet to the IP address and port registered by the client logged on to that mailbox. Because the client picks a port at startup and the server does not always use the same port when sending the notification, there is no way to predict either the source or destination ports that this traffic will use. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 26 23:36:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 26 23:36:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13971 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Jun 2003 23:36:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13967 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 23:36:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 23:36:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BDD4719B96; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:36:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-11.noos.net [212.198.2.82]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2EBCB19B8F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:35:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 96147594 invoked by uid 0); 26 Jun 2003 14:35:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.210]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.82 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 26 Jun 2003 14:35:47 -0000 Message-ID: <017201c33bf0$3af91ca0$d2944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030626035341.15964.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> <010801c33bd3$cc87dca0$d2944251@insultant.net> <3EFAF25C.6030203@proweb.co.uk> <015601c33be7$8b8773a0$d2944251@insultant.net> <3EFB01C7.8090603@proweb.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] mail problems.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 16:35:46 +0200 > an email address is a handle used to retrieve a list of local caches > from the MX records > > but you know all this. yes, i do. > Your original argument was against the local cache pushing something to > the client over UDP because UDP doesn't scale. no it doesn't and my other point is it's not reliable, so you just bang out packets until one finds its destination. this, in a worst case scenario, would flood the 'network'. it 'works' by virtue of the fact that the problem has been reduced in scale. 'caches are multiplicative' i think rob said in his sam paper. and there's NAT and firewalls, just for extra points etc, etc ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 27 00:10:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 27 00:10:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14769 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Jun 2003 00:10:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14765 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2003 00:10:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Jun 2003 00:10:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 868C419B5D; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:10:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AB94319A7A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:09:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5QF9TeH023631 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 09:09:29 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5QF9T62023627 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 09:09:29 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] venti/fmtarenas Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 09:09:29 -0600 (MDT) I tore down the first venti I set up and am doing it again (that's the best way to learn, I figure) and this time I measured venti/fmtarenas on the 60gb arenas partition: 1.09u 63.26s 1410.41r venti/fmtarenas arenas /dev/sdC0/arenas the size of the partition is 60.98 GB, which corresponds to around 40+MB/s. dma/rwm was on, of course. smack me on the forehead next time I complain that Plan 9 is slow :) andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 27 00:47:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 27 00:47:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15350 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Jun 2003 00:47:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15346 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2003 00:47:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Jun 2003 00:47:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A97C019BA0; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:47:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from zulu.avenirsolutions.com (zulu.avenirsolutions.com [63.67.205.8]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 121BE19B15 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:46:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 9540 invoked by uid 1005); 26 Jun 2003 15:04:44 -0000 Message-ID: <20030626150444.9537.qmail@zulu.avenirsolutions.com> From: cmulcahy@avesi.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] alternative kernels? new install Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:04:44 -0400 Hello, I am trying to install Plan 9. My boot process is stalling after printing: cpu0 ( pentium 2 .... ) ECLR < it hangs here > The trouble-shooting page leads me to believe that this indicates that 9load has done its bootstrap work correctly, and that the boot-scripts are not reached. The problem lies in the kernel. I gather that the Plan9 kernel is customizable, but I know very little about the process. Is there a way to create a modified kernel image on a host operating system like linux or BSD, or find prebuilt images other than the generic install kernel. ( which doesn't seem to like my hardware. ) I would very much like to play with Plan 9. Should I wait for the new distribution? tks, mulc From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 27 00:50:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 27 00:50:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15382 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Jun 2003 00:50:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15378 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2003 00:50:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Jun 2003 00:50:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EEAE119BA5; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:50:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CCBCD19A7A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:49:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0a18570e27c40d627beb69b86e8e0277@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mail problems.. In-Reply-To: <3EFB01C7.8090603@proweb.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:49:05 -0400 It would be silly to only announce mail messages. The daemon on the client should generate plumbing messages. We should have broadcast groups too. I think we should call it .NET instant messenger. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 27 02:54:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 27 02:54:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17265 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Jun 2003 02:54:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17261 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2003 02:54:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Jun 2003 02:54:42 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BA25B19B4C; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 13:54:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D753719995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 13:53:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] aux/zerotrunc From: Sape Mullender In-Reply-To: <465bf88064ed8d81ca4b21bda4c52ed0@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-mevdfnunamzmqgszonhqxwsagr" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 13:53:25 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-mevdfnunamzmqgszonhqxwsagr Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Is aux/zerotrunc missing? I tried fossil/conf > and it calls aux/zerotrunc. But I couldnt find such program. --upas-mevdfnunamzmqgszonhqxwsagr Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=zerotrunc.c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit /* * cat standard input until you get a zero byte */ #include #include #include void main(void) { int c; Biobuf bin, bout; Binit(&bin, 0, OREAD); Binit(&bout, 1, OWRITE); while((c = Bgetc(&bin)) != Beof && c != 0){ Bputc(&bout, c); } Bflush(&bout); exits(0); } --upas-mevdfnunamzmqgszonhqxwsagr-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 27 03:15:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 27 03:15:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17554 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Jun 2003 03:15:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17550 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2003 03:15:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Jun 2003 03:15:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7AA9019B98; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:15:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail-in-01.arcor-online.net (mail-in-01.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7248919B46 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:14:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dsl-213-023-033-007.arcor-ip.net (dsl-213-023-033-007.arcor-ip.net [213.23.33.7]) by mail-in-01.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A0D71E461 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 20:13:58 +0200 (CEST) From: Nikolay Paskov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] inferno & plan9 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.1 References: <200306252155.39686.n.paskov@gmx.de> <00c901c33b74$8f4429c0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> In-Reply-To: <00c901c33b74$8f4429c0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200306262014.02834.n.paskov@gmx.de> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: n.paskov@gmx.de List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 20:14:02 +0200 On Thursday 26 June 2003 01:49, Bruce Ellis wrote: > i hacked srvold9p into a srvstyx so that we could import froggies > (which run research inferno) into the plan9 namespace. > i'll try and find the src if this is what you want. If you have time for this. I'll be glad to see the code. Nikolay > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nikolay Paskov" > To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> > Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 5:55 AM > Subject: [9fans] inferno & plan9 > > > I'm wondering is there any way to mount inferno fs under plan9 and vice > > verse. There is possibility to run inferno with plan9 as host and the > > plan9 fs will be visible but that's not the idea. > > > > Nikolay From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 27 03:25:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 27 03:25:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17699 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Jun 2003 03:25:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17695 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2003 03:25:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Jun 2003 03:25:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A54E419BA6; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:25:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail-in-02.arcor-online.net (mail-in-02.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.42]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E2ED19995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:24:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dsl-213-023-033-007.arcor-ip.net (dsl-213-023-033-007.arcor-ip.net [213.23.33.7]) by mail-in-02.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3136D1A8C5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 20:33:28 +0200 (CEST) From: Nikolay Paskov To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> User-Agent: KMail/1.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200306262024.36027.n.paskov@gmx.de> Subject: [9fans] Problem with vmware 4.0 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: n.paskov@gmx.de List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 20:24:36 +0200 I have a problem with booting plan9 on my laptop with vmware 4.0. I'm not sure but I suppose that the initialization of southbridge is where the kernel hangs. Has or had anyone the same problem? On my desktop computer there is no problem with the same virtual disk. I tried to boot plan9 as standalone system and there is no problem at all. With Linux under vmware is also ok. I tried windows + vmware nothing. Nikolay From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 27 03:28:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 27 03:28:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17760 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Jun 2003 03:28:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17756 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2003 03:28:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Jun 2003 03:28:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3ACCA19BA3; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:28:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE20419BA3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:26:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user-38lc1dg.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.5.176] helo=acm.org) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19VbSK-0003US-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:26:48 -0700 Message-ID: <3EFB3B2B.6050609@acm.org> From: "D. Brownlee" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; NetBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030618 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] dictionaries Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:27:55 -0700 Does anyone know whether a dictionary on a Win/Mac CD can be processed by the dict(?) tools -- like an OED CD? Just want to know before spending any money. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 27 03:35:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 27 03:35:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17875 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Jun 2003 03:35:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17871 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2003 03:35:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Jun 2003 03:35:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6358319BA4; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:35:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E2FF919B15 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:34:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] inferno & plan9 From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <00c901c33b74$8f4429c0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:37:49 +0100 nikolay: > I'm wondering is there any way to mount inferno fs under plan9 and vice verse. > There is possibility to run inferno with plan9 as host and the plan9 fs will > be visible but that's not the idea. with the new inferno, there's no problem as long as authentication is not involved, as they use the same protocol. brucee: > i hacked srvold9p into a srvstyx so that we could import froggies > (which run research inferno) into the plan9 namespace. > i'll try and find the src if this is what you want. did it do the inferno auth protocol? and... what are froggies? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 27 03:54:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 27 03:54:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18168 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Jun 2003 03:54:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18164 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2003 03:54:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Jun 2003 03:54:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5F3AC19B64; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:54:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail-in-05.arcor-online.net (mail-in-05.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.45]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 35E5B19B4E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:53:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dsl-213-023-033-007.arcor-ip.net (dsl-213-023-033-007.arcor-ip.net [213.23.33.7]) by mail-in-05.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A171C22C12 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 20:53:15 +0200 (CEST) From: Nikolay Paskov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] inferno & plan9 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.1 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200306262053.20247.n.paskov@gmx.de> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: n.paskov@gmx.de List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 20:53:20 +0200 On Thursday 26 June 2003 20:37, rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > nikolay: > > I'm wondering is there any way to mount inferno fs under plan9 and vice > > verse. There is possibility to run inferno with plan9 as host and the > > plan9 fs will be visible but that's not the idea. > > with the new inferno, there's no problem as long as authentication > is not involved, as they use the same protocol. If the fs is on remote computer? Is there any possibility to mount remote fs without auth? I thought that is 'impossible'. Hmm may be I'm wrong, have to re-read the papers. > > brucee: > > i hacked srvold9p into a srvstyx so that we could import froggies > > (which run research inferno) into the plan9 namespace. > > i'll try and find the src if this is what you want. > > did it do the inferno auth protocol? > > and... what are froggies? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 27 04:19:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 27 04:19:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18537 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Jun 2003 04:19:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18533 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2003 04:19:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Jun 2003 04:19:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 483CB19BA9; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:19:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8233219A7C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:19:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <026df7a77b320f4e4ad3b302ae2f4d04@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] inferno & plan9 From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <200306262053.20247.n.paskov@gmx.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 20:22:19 +0100 > If the fs is on remote computer? Is there any possibility to mount remote fs > without auth? I thought that is 'impossible'. Hmm may be I'm wrong, have to > re-read the papers. yeah, it's no problem - it's just insecure, not surprisingly. i just tried it; under inferno, i did: % listen -A tcp!myhostname!1234 {export /tmp} % ls /tmp | wc -l 168 % and under plan 9: % 9fs tcp!myhostname!1234 /n/temp % ls /tmp | wc -l 168 % authentication would be really nice though. it's been on my "to do" list for ages; not hard, just a little tiresome. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 27 04:46:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 27 04:46:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18871 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Jun 2003 04:46:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18867 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2003 04:46:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Jun 2003 04:46:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D431819BAF; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:46:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from web40413.mail.yahoo.com (web40413.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.110]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B282E19BAA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:45:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <20030626194539.71296.qmail@web40413.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.210.205.126] by web40413.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:45:39 PDT From: "A. Baker" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] (you think you have) mail problems.. (now?) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:45:39 -0700 (PDT) >Authenticating the sender will be mandated for >communications with Government somewhere soon, be >that tax returns or road tolls or something. >Microsoft is already trying to get Passport as the >de-facto : ---------------8<--------------- http://theregister.co.uk/content/archive/24938.html Passport has proved incredibly controversial. Microsoft holds data of customers who use Passport, but industry and customer opposition has forced the company to revise this. Future versions of Microsoft .NET My Services, which will use Passport, will be re-worked to let enterprises customers run their own services, side stepping the Microsoft middleman. ---------------8<--------------- God help us. ===== Boojum __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 27 10:23:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 27 10:23:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26735 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Jun 2003 10:23:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26723 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2003 10:23:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Jun 2003 10:23:36 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C723119A65; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 21:23:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from unix127.hosting-network.com (unknown [66.186.208.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2B21519A65 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 21:22:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 37356 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2003 01:24:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cc77109e) (203.51.78.31) by 66.186.208.13 with SMTP; 27 Jun 2003 01:24:41 -0000 X-Comments: BlackMail headers - Mail to abuse@featureprice.com to report spam. X-Authenticated-Connect: 203.51.78.31 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 21:24:41(EDT) on June 26, 2003 X-HELO-From: cc77109e X-Mail-From: X-Sender-IP-Address: 203.51.78.31 Message-ID: <018001c33c4b$1ba33380$c901a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] inferno & plan9 Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 09:57:43 +1000 of course it does authentication. i'm not sure of the utility of "security is easy if you have none" approach. we chose not to try and look like 9P2000 because the inferno security model is different and serves us well. there is no auth machine in the picture. and running around changing boot roms because we are fixing something that isn't broken is hard to justify to our users. it's a good thing importing my play station namespace to a plan9 machine where i can run all sorts of debugging tools that i don't want to rewrite in limbo. froggies are 4 processor ixp1200 network appliances. see BLTJ 6(2), 6-17 (2002) Wiley InterScience. "Starburst: Building Next-Generation Internet Devices" i'll put the styxsrv src on my web site sometime v.soon. the implementation is somewhat novel. brucee ----- Original Message ----- From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 4:37 AM Subject: Re: [9fans] inferno & plan9 ... > brucee: > > i hacked srvold9p into a srvstyx so that we could import froggies > > (which run research inferno) into the plan9 namespace. > > i'll try and find the src if this is what you want. > > did it do the inferno auth protocol? > > and... what are froggies? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 27 10:33:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 27 10:33:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27302 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Jun 2003 10:33:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27297 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2003 10:33:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Jun 2003 10:33:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 24FDA19A6F; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 21:33:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from unix127.hosting-network.com (unknown [66.186.208.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2442B199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 21:32:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 38200 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2003 01:34:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cc77109e) (203.51.78.31) by 66.186.208.13 with SMTP; 27 Jun 2003 01:34:21 -0000 X-Comments: BlackMail headers - Mail to abuse@featureprice.com to report spam. X-Authenticated-Connect: 203.51.78.31 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 21:34:21(EDT) on June 26, 2003 X-HELO-From: cc77109e X-Mail-From: X-Sender-IP-Address: 203.51.78.31 Message-ID: <019301c33c4c$756e2680$c901a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] inferno & plan9 Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 11:33:29 +1000 srvstyx at http://www.chunder.com/plan9/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 27 17:31:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 27 17:31:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17285 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Jun 2003 17:31:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17281 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2003 17:31:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Jun 2003 17:31:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EF93B19A17; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 04:31:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 442C319995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 04:30:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19VobN-0005H3-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 09:29:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EFB47CA.893710B@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] how to boot from hard disk? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 08:26:11 GMT I've wasted a lot of time trying to get the following three OSes to be simultaneously bootable from partitions on the primary master IDE disk (using System Commander 8 as a boot manager): Windows Me Plan 9 r.4 Solaris 9 Currently I have Plan 9 and Solaris installed on partitions on other disks (IDE and/or SCSI) and they don't boot successfully even though they have, in the past, on other PCs using System Commander. One possible factor is that I have 120GB and 95GB IDE disks. I would appreciate help getting bootable versions working. For example, can I boot via floppy then copy the installed files to a partition on the primary master disk and do something magic to install a working MBR? I have figured out what "P.C." stands for! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 27 18:01:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 27 18:01:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18370 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Jun 2003 18:01:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18365 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2003 18:01:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Jun 2003 18:01:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DD5FD19A63; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 05:01:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from laptop.local (dsl-082-082-059-030.arcor-ip.net [82.82.59.30]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AC72819A2D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 05:00:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by laptop.local (Postfix, from userid 500) id 74C321FBAD; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 11:00:47 +0200 (CEST) From: Nikolay Paskov To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> User-Agent: KMail/1.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200306271100.47413.n.paskov@gmx.de> Subject: [9fans] vmware 4.0 usb problem Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: n.paskov@gmx.de List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 11:00:46 +0200 I've posted yesterday a message about a problem with vmware 4.0. The problem is somewhere in the initialization from the southbridge. After some experiments I realised that the problem is in the USB initialization. I'm not sure about other OSs but plan9 definitly hangs on the usb initialization. On my desktop system I have the same image and the same version of vmware but there is no problem. The southbridge on my desktop system is VIA the same is on my laptop I suppose different versions. Now I have plan9 running on my laptop and I'll try to find out what is the problem. Nikolay From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 27 18:43:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 27 18:43:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20103 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Jun 2003 18:43:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20099 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2003 18:43:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Jun 2003 18:43:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C029019A68; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 05:43:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id CB5F219A66 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 05:42:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 21609 invoked by uid 65534); 27 Jun 2003 09:42:32 -0000 Received: from PPP-219.65.7.114.mum1.vsnl.net.in (EHLO home.woodlands) (219.65.7.114) by mail.gmx.net (mp008) with SMTP; 27 Jun 2003 11:42:32 +0200 From: Apurva Mehta To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] how to boot from hard disk? Message-Id: <20030627151258.6ca251a8.apurva@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: <3EFB47CA.893710B@null.net> References: <3EFB47CA.893710B@null.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.1 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 15:12:58 +0530 On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 08:26:11 GMT "Douglas A. Gwyn" wrote: > Currently I have Plan 9 and Solaris installed on partitions > on other disks (IDE and/or SCSI) and they don't boot successfully > even though they have, in the past, on other PCs using System > Commander. What is the error you are getting when trying to boot plan9? I cannot say anything about solaris, but can you try booting plan 9 from the disk without using a boot manager? If plan9 is installed on a boot partition, you can try booting straight from the disk on which it installed and see if that works. If it does not, you might want to try making the plan9 disk a primary master if it is IDE. I had a problem booting from my hard disk till a week ago. I solved it by making the plan9 disk a primary master.. HTH, - Apurva From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 27 18:48:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 27 18:48:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20258 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Jun 2003 18:48:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20254 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2003 18:48:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Jun 2003 18:48:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 79FC519A7B; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 05:48:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from XMAIL.asuch.cas.cz (clusterb.asuch.cas.cz [147.231.136.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9F3C819A69 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 05:47:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from picture ([147.231.139.42]) by XMAIL.asuch.cas.cz with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Fri, 27 Jun 2003 11:47:37 +0200 Message-ID: <001601c33c91$249f4cd0$2a8be793@gli.cas.cz> From: "pac" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jun 2003 09:47:37.0707 (UTC) FILETIME=[248423B0:01C33C91] Subject: [9fans] book chapters Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 11:47:37 +0200 folks! i'd like to hear your comments on these: http://catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/html/plan9.html http://catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/html/ch20s03.html (i cant agree with almost anything of the latter, however, imho) regards, ++pac. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 27 19:23:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 27 19:23:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21686 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Jun 2003 19:23:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21682 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2003 19:23:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Jun 2003 19:23:45 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1D82919A81; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 06:18:51 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from aol.com (unknown [210.217.99.148]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C205A1999B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 06:16:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: "Frank Trim" To: "9fans@cse.psu.edu" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 User-Agent: Subject: [9fans] Alert: Net.net domain extensions now available.......%ROTF:Z:\ALL-MESSAGES\Domains-SS\smtp20\after subj.txt%} Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: "Frank Trim" List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 02:37:51 -0600 Get the perfect name for your website and em@il with these extensi0ns. 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GfoalscAtgwekwu XjesdhblCnwastw i3 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 27 19:24:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 27 19:24:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21725 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Jun 2003 19:24:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21720 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2003 19:24:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Jun 2003 19:24:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 96F5F19AA0; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 06:24:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4264019A8E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 06:23:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 5717 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2003 10:23:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO proweb.co.uk) (192.168.1.100) by juice.thebigchoice.com with SMTP; 27 Jun 2003 10:23:00 -0000 Message-ID: <3EFC1B03.7040700@proweb.co.uk> From: matt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] book chapters References: <001601c33c91$249f4cd0$2a8be793@gli.cas.cz> In-Reply-To: <001601c33c91$249f4cd0$2a8be793@gli.cas.cz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 11:22:59 +0100 pac wrote: >folks! >i'd like to hear your comments on these: > > http://catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/html/plan9.html bland, looks like the writer has never actually *used* plan9 but has read the papers and maybe installed it for a couple of hours I know ftpfs seems to be the canonical example but Windows kind of does that and Linux has a kernel level ftpfs program too (with an entry in fstab) > http://catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/html/ch20s03.html seems a bit unfocussed but I only program Unix in the shell From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 27 21:05:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 27 21:05:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23896 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Jun 2003 21:05:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23892 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2003 21:05:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Jun 2003 21:05:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2707D19A60; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 08:05:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0210419995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 08:04:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2352a89cf9cbd3bc4b0b234f11ec44b8@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] inferno & plan9 From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <019301c33c4c$756e2680$c901a8c0@cc77109e> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 13:07:33 +0100 > srvstyx at http://www.chunder.com/plan9/ cool. i like the idea of using inferno to do its own authentication by bridging through to plan 9 via #C and /srv. that was the bit i balked at doing in C. i had a 30 minute attempt at getting it working under our inferno - almost but not quite, and no time left until monday. i think that for our stuff the auth stuff can remain the same and srvstyx can just become a tiny program that posts its stdin to /srv. (but i might be mistaken 'cos that's the bit that's not working). > we chose not to try and look like 9P2000 because the > inferno security model is different and serves us well. > there is no auth machine in the picture. we still use the inferno authentication model, despite using 9p2000 for the file protocol. it's orthogonal to plan 9's i think, as it encapsulates the stream rather than being embedded in the protocol. cheers, rog. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 27 21:39:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 27 21:39:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24433 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Jun 2003 21:39:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24429 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2003 21:39:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Jun 2003 21:39:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 42F8119A66; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 08:39:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 51CE8199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 08:38:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 28052 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2003 12:38:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO proweb.co.uk) (192.168.1.100) by juice.thebigchoice.com with SMTP; 27 Jun 2003 12:38:00 -0000 Message-ID: <3EFC3AA8.2010801@proweb.co.uk> From: matt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] inferno & plan9 - first step on "The Ultimate Cool" References: <2352a89cf9cbd3bc4b0b234f11ec44b8@vitanuova.com> In-Reply-To: <2352a89cf9cbd3bc4b0b234f11ec44b8@vitanuova.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 13:38:00 +0100 I like the idea of Inferno serving files to plan9, all is well and good with that. Especially with the new grid computing initiative at Vita Nuova http://www.vitanuova.com/grid/demo.html Some interesting services might well come out of that that plan9 can take part in. > This allows a Plan9 machine to establish a connection to an Inferno machine and import its filesystem. Is there already a way for plan9 to serve files to Inferno (and/or others) as this strikes me as the preferred option. I can see that with some cruft you could persuade the remote plan9 box to connect to you. It may make those Ipaq's slightly more useful if they ran Inferno but accessed the plan9 FS, chording isn't fun with a stylus ! as we were reminded earlier : My ideal for the future is to develop a file system remote interface (a la Plan 9) and then have it implemented across the Internet as the standard rather than HTML. That would be ultimate cool. -- Ken Thompson From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 27 23:17:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 27 23:17:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26341 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Jun 2003 23:17:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26337 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2003 23:17:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Jun 2003 23:17:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 126E319A7C; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 10:17:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A9D2F1999B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 10:16:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h5RE7Cnp002179 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 16:07:14 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h5RE7AEb002178 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 16:07:10 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <20030627160707.L28100@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us Organization: Proxima Research & Development Subject: [9fans] Another fossil query Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 16:07:08 +0200 With "huddle" as my fossil server, I did % srv -c huddle huddle /n/huddle % cd /n/huddle % rm bootdisk.img The file happened to be owned by "lucio". I didn't really expect it to work. However: % ls -d returns d-rwxrwxrwx M 232 adm adm 0 Jun 27 10:13 active which strikes me as dangerous as well as a little mysterious. Less confusing is: % pwd /n/huddle On the positive side, my problems with unreachable blocks hasn't yet recurred, it seems they were triggered by the "snap -a" recommended in the wiki, possibly based on a simplistic venti/venti -w instead of a more sophisticated command. Or perhaps the venti executables were dated, I have recompiled the venti and fossil modules from a more recent snapshot. I'm willing to wait until the conventional 0500 archive snapshot to find out - that's to say, I'm not really keen to try "snap -a" right now :-) ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 27 23:17:55 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 27 23:17:55 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26353 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Jun 2003 23:17:55 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26349 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2003 23:17:55 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Jun 2003 23:17:55 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5B00C19A91; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 10:17:31 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 145D319995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 10:16:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5RDLEfw008976 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 09:21:14 -0400 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] i say, this is interesting Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 09:21:14 -0400 (EDT) I use rob's ``plumb to web'' rule posted a while back. Today I plumbed and got a really neat result: all of my terminals started ignoring every other character input. I would have found this to be a great nuisance if it hadn't eventually gone away. I played with it a bit, and I think I know the causes for both the start and stop of the feature. A while back I upgraded from Opera 6.12 to 7.11. I guess it's better, though I don't really perceive any additional functionality and it's doggedly slower. In any event, apparently -newpage no longer works properly because instead of opening a new tab, it kicks off a new opera. The aforementioned terminal feature persists until a second or so after I close the newly opened opera window, indicating the problem might be due to the blocked ssh connection. I do believe that under 6.12 ``opera -newpage'' returned immediately, having delivered the open page command to the running instance. Now, is this funny a bug in source or could it be in my setup? I have the most amazing ability to step on things inadvertantly causing updates to not get applied, so the latter wouldn't suprise me. Cheers, Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 28 00:15:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 28 00:15:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27216 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Jun 2003 00:15:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27212 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2003 00:15:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Jun 2003 00:15:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0273919A85; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 11:15:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.cs.helsinki.fi (courier.cs.helsinki.fi [128.214.9.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 93FA519A69 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 11:14:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from melkinkari.cs.helsinki.fi (melkinkari.cs.helsinki.fi [::ffff:128.214.9.204]) (IDENT: root, AUTH: PLAIN cs-relay, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,168bits,DES-CBC3-SHA) by mail.cs.helsinki.fi with esmtp; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:13:57 +0300 Received: from melkinkari.cs.helsinki.fi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by melkinkari.cs.helsinki.fi (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5RFDv3j007534 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:13:57 +0300 Received: (from anyrhine@localhost) by melkinkari.cs.helsinki.fi (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/Submit) id h5RFDocw007532 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:13:50 +0300 From: Aki M Nyrhinen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] i say, this is interesting Message-ID: <20030627151350.GA7466@cs.helsinki.fi> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:13:50 +0300 On Fri, Jun 27, 2003 at 09:21:14AM -0400, Sam wrote: > I use rob's ``plumb to web'' rule posted > a while back. Today I plumbed and got > a really neat result: all of my terminals > started ignoring every other character > input. You can get rid of this nice feature by giving /dev/null as standard input for ssh (ie. ssh foo 'whatever' ; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 11:15:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kp.km.ua (root@kp.km.ua [217.196.174.2]) by infocom.km.ua (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/ic) with ESMTP id h5RFFRjU023151 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:15:28 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Received: from localhost.localdomain (dialup03.kp.km.ua [217.196.174.18]) by kp.km.ua (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/kp-branch) with SMTP id h5RFFNB0006989 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:15:26 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" From: "Andrey S. Kukhar" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] how to boot from hard disk? X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] References: <3EFB47CA.893710B@null.net> <20030627151258.6ca251a8.apurva@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: <20030627151258.6ca251a8.apurva@gmx.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <03062718062400.00513@localhost.localdomain> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:19:45 -0400 > If it does not, you might want to try making the plan9 > disk a primary master if it is IDE. I had a problem > booting from my hard disk till a week ago. I solved it by > making the plan9 disk a primary master.. Intresting thing, I had inverse problem a few months ago, the system didn't recognize my primary master HDD until I switched it to secondary master. kyxap From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 28 00:23:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 28 00:23:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27315 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Jun 2003 00:23:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27311 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2003 00:23:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Jun 2003 00:23:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2B7A219AD4; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 11:23:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2C7C719AAB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 11:22:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 690959 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 10:29:26 -0500 Message-ID: <9ca09ec796d6755e8b2f3c8760fed077@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] i say, this is interesting From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 08:22:15 -0700 i've seen that too, and i think you're right that it's a blocked ssh. the obvious fix would be to redirect the stdin of the ssh, but i haven't tried it. maybe i'll do that now. just put ; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 11:24:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 690964 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 10:31:40 -0500 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] i say, this is interesting From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <20030627151350.GA7466@cs.helsinki.fi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 08:24:30 -0700 > I don't want to make guesses why exactly every > second character is lost (other's know, for sure), but it > seems this isn't neccessarily a bug at all. oh, that's easy. two processes reading the same file, each one byte at a time. what would be the result of your kernel implementation under those circumstances? ours just gates each process through the queue, and the result is alternate characters going to alternate processes. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 28 01:08:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 28 01:08:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27949 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Jun 2003 01:08:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27945 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2003 01:08:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Jun 2003 01:08:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1FE7319995; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 12:08:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2714419995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 12:07:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5RFBafw009294 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 11:11:36 -0400 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] i say, this is interesting In-Reply-To: <9ca09ec796d6755e8b2f3c8760fed077@mightycheese.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 11:11:36 -0400 (EDT) I am a boob. -newpage works fine, Opera just isn't smart enough to figure out that when I log in as sah I really want him to send the open to the opera running as root. I can't blame him. Doubly boobalicious, I should have seen that redirecting the stdin for plumb start's ssh would have suppressed this. Thanks, Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 28 01:54:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 28 01:54:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28521 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Jun 2003 01:54:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28517 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2003 01:54:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Jun 2003 01:54:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 48F1919ADB; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 12:54:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from laptop.local (dsl-082-082-059-030.arcor-ip.net [82.82.59.30]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 856DC1999B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 12:53:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by laptop.local (Postfix, from userid 500) id 9E0181FB51; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:53:40 +0200 (CEST) From: Nikolay Paskov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware 4.0 usb problem User-Agent: KMail/1.5.1 References: <200306271100.47413.n.paskov@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: <200306271100.47413.n.paskov@gmx.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200306271853.39144.n.paskov@gmx.de> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: n.paskov@gmx.de List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:53:37 +0200 On Friday 27 June 2003 11:00, Nikolay Paskov wrote: > I've posted yesterday a message about a problem with vmware 4.0. The > problem is somewhere in the initialization from the southbridge. After some > experiments I realised that the problem is in the USB initialization. I'm The problem is not in USB initialization. After some probes I realised that the cdrom is the problem. 10 minutes later I found the following with google: [source: help: VMWare workstation v4.0: search for 'legacy'] Checking 'Legacy emulation' causes the virtual hardware to work as it did in the prior release of the VMWare workstation (thus VMWare v3.2 for Windows/Linux workstation here). By default, VMWare v4.0 for Windows/Linux workstation attempts to make available the advanced features of your drive, but in some cases this may cause the drive not to work with your virtual machine. Checking this option reverts the VMWare workstation to the prior emulation mode for CD-ROM drives) > not sure about other OSs but plan9 definitly hangs on the usb > initialization. On my desktop system I have the same image and the same > version of vmware but there is no problem. The southbridge on my desktop > system is VIA the same is on my laptop I suppose different versions. Now I > have plan9 running on my laptop and I'll try to find out what is the > problem. > > Nikolay From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 28 02:13:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 28 02:13:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28788 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Jun 2003 02:13:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28784 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2003 02:13:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Jun 2003 02:13:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C73219AE2; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 13:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 02CB719A69 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 13:12:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5RHC2eH032558 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 11:12:02 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5RHC2Lu032554 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 11:12:02 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] what should 'fileserver' be set to in fossil? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 11:12:02 -0600 (MDT) with kfs things like 'man -P kfs' work fine (fileserver=kfs), with fossil we run into some problems: plan9% echo $fileserver plan9% man -P kfs converting from troff to postscript... srv: dial net!emelie!9fs: cs: can't translate address: dns: resource does not exist mount: can't open /srv/emelie: '/srv/emelie' file does not exist cannot mount /n/emelieother filesystem reading through postscript... cannot find end of first line plan9% fileserver=boot plan9% ls /srv/boot # this is my fossil srv point /srv/boot plan9% man -P kfs converting from troff to postscript... mount: mount /n/bootother: fsys: 'other' not found cannot mount /n/bootother filesystem reading through postscript... cannot find end of first line plan9% fileserver=kfs plan9% man -P kfs converting from troff to postscript... srv: dial net!kfs!9fs: cs: can't translate address: dns: resource does not exist mount: can't open /srv/kfs: '/srv/kfs' file does not exist cannot mount /n/kfs filesystem reading through postscript... cannot find end of first line plan9% srv 136.159.220.110 kfs # this machine actually is a kfs file server post... plan9% man -P kfs # this works, hail plan9 :) converting from troff to postscript... reading through postscript... plan9% rm /srv/kfs plan9% srv tcp!sources.cs.bell-labs.com kfs # this is funny :) post... plan9% man -P kfs converting from troff to postscript... bind: /n/kfs/lp: '/n/kfs/lp' file does not exist cannot bind /n/kfs/lp onto /sys/lib/lp reading through postscript... cannot find end of first line plan9% plan9% fileserver=192.168.1.3 # this is the machine with fossil plan9% man -P kfs # this _should_ work converting from troff to postscript... srv: dial net!192.168.1.3!9fs: connection rejected mount: can't open /srv/192.168.1.3: '/srv/192.168.1.3' file does not exist cannot mount /n/192.168.1.3other filesystem reading through postscript... cannot find end of first line plan9% plan9% fileserver=plan9 # aka this very same machine plan9% man -P kfs converting from troff to postscript... post... mount: mount /n/plan9other: '/n/plan9other' does not exist cannot mount /n/plan9other filesystem reading through postscript... cannot find end of first line plan9% fileserver=192.168.1.3 # same thing plan9% man -P kfs converting from troff to postscript... post... mount: mount /n/192.168.1.3other: '/n/192.168.1.3other' does not exist cannot mount /n/192.168.1.3other filesystem reading through postscript... cannot find end of first line plan9% srv plan9 kfs # now just serve it under kfs post... plan9% fileserver=kfs plan9% man -P kfs # and it works... converting from troff to postscript... reading through postscript... plan9% From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 28 02:28:05 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 28 02:28:05 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28881 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Jun 2003 02:28:04 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28877 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2003 02:28:04 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Jun 2003 02:28:04 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D3CE19AF0; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 13:27:51 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.cs.helsinki.fi (courier.cs.helsinki.fi [128.214.9.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F3CB91999B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 13:26:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from melkinkari.cs.helsinki.fi (melkinkari.cs.helsinki.fi [::ffff:128.214.9.204]) (IDENT: root, AUTH: PLAIN cs-relay, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,168bits,DES-CBC3-SHA) by mail.cs.helsinki.fi with esmtp; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 20:26:15 +0300 Received: from melkinkari.cs.helsinki.fi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by melkinkari.cs.helsinki.fi (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5RHQF3j007765 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 20:26:15 +0300 Received: (from anyrhine@localhost) by melkinkari.cs.helsinki.fi (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/Submit) id h5RHQFSb007763 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 20:26:15 +0300 From: Aki M Nyrhinen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] i say, this is interesting Message-ID: <20030627172615.GA7666@cs.helsinki.fi> References: <20030627151350.GA7466@cs.helsinki.fi> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 20:26:15 +0300 On Fri, Jun 27, 2003 at 08:24:30AM -0700, rob pike, esq. wrote: > > I don't want to make guesses why exactly every > > second character is lost (other's know, for sure), but it > > seems this isn't neccessarily a bug at all. > oh, that's easy. two processes reading the same file, > each one byte at a time. what would be the result of > your kernel implementation under those circumstances? An impossible to find non-deterministic malfunction in the future, of course. > ours just gates each process through the queue, and > the result is alternate characters going to alternate > processes. Now that you said it, it's very obvious because the keyboard gives characters one at a time. Is there a reason why the plumber does not close(0)? -Aki From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 28 02:49:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 28 02:49:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29106 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Jun 2003 02:49:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29102 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2003 02:49:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Jun 2003 02:49:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D11D819AE5; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 13:49:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 631EA19A69 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 13:48:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO stinkhorn.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 691131 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 12:54:53 -0500 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] i say, this is interesting From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <20030627172615.GA7666@cs.helsinki.fi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 10:47:38 -0700 > Is there a reason why the plumber does not close(0)? not that i can think of. it probably should, although i don't remember how it builds the subprocess. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 28 03:20:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 28 03:20:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29448 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Jun 2003 03:20:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29444 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2003 03:20:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Jun 2003 03:20:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E524019AF1; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 14:20:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 59CEC1999B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 14:19:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] what should 'fileserver' be set to in fossil? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 14:19:00 -0400 What's the value of /env/fileserver when you're running fossil? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 28 03:37:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 28 03:37:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29571 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Jun 2003 03:37:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29567 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2003 03:37:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Jun 2003 03:37:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AAE6019AF6; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 14:37:17 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE9FB1999B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 14:36:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5RIZneH032744; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 12:35:49 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5RIZnJL032740; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 12:35:49 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: David Presotto Cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] what should 'fileserver' be set to in fossil? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 12:35:49 -0600 (MDT) it's not set -- i've commented it out in /rc/bin/cpurc (the first line of the long paste in my previous message illustrates that).. it's also not set in /sys/lib/sysconfig//boot i've resorted for now to doing 'srv kfs' and setting 'fileserver=kfs' in /rc/bin/cpurc, which shuts 'lp' up. looking at how lp wants to connect to net!$fileserver!9fs and then mount it at /n/$fileserver^'other' i suspect that 'fileserver=kfs' is a special case that lp (or whatever's doing all those mounts) knows how to handle -- after all it works fine if the name is 'kfs' and doesn't work fine if the name is anything else, regardless of whether the /srv/ file descriptor points to a kfs or a fossil file server: plan9% fileserver=blah plan9% srv plan9 blah # fossil post... plan9% man -P kfs converting from troff to postscript... mount: mount /n/blahother: '/n/blahother' does not exist cannot mount /n/blahother filesystem reading through postscript... cannot find end of first line plan9% fileserver=kfs plan9% srv plan9 kfs # again fossil, just use the right name post... plan9% man -P kfs # works! converting from troff to postscript... reading through postscript... plan9% andrey ps: sorry for being so wordy, just trying to explain as best as i can On Fri, 27 Jun 2003, David Presotto wrote: > What's the value of /env/fileserver when you're running fossil? > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 28 04:02:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 28 04:02:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29857 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Jun 2003 04:02:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29853 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2003 04:02:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Jun 2003 04:02:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3DA0C19B00; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 15:02:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E2A1219AEC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 15:01:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6ea5ad7eefd2331fba6d304557e308e0@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] what should 'fileserver' be set to in fossil? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 15:01:26 -0400 Our lp is just rediculously dependent on our local setup. I'll fix that. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 28 04:08:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 28 04:08:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29934 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Jun 2003 04:08:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29930 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2003 04:08:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Jun 2003 04:08:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4C20219B05; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 15:08:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9FC2F19B02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 15:07:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5RJ7PeH000331 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 13:07:25 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5RJ7PZ1000327 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 13:07:25 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] what should 'fileserver' be set to in fossil? In-Reply-To: <6ea5ad7eefd2331fba6d304557e308e0@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 13:07:25 -0600 (MDT) same thing but with the 'hpost' postscript preprocessor -- if it doesn't find a machine name in .machinelist it assumes that the users are from 'astro', which you guys have defined for all bell-labs machines. net effect is that everybody here gets 'u/unknown.1' (rabbit ears). i'm not sure of a proper fix for this -- i changed 'astro' to 'unknown' and defined the few plan9 users as unknown/username in .dict.. andrey On Fri, 27 Jun 2003, David Presotto wrote: > Our lp is just rediculously dependent on our local setup. > I'll fix that. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 28 07:04:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 28 07:04:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 595 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Jun 2003 07:04:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 591 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2003 07:04:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Jun 2003 07:04:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C4FA819AF2; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:04:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from magnum.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1D47C19A06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:03:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by magnum.cooper.edu id AA00886 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu); Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:08:13 -0400 From: Joel Salomon To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: "Eric S. Raymond" Subject: Re: [9fans] book chapters In-Reply-To: <001601c33c91$249f4cd0$2a8be793@gli.cas.cz> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:08:13 -0400 (EDT) On Fri, 27 Jun 2003, pac wrote: > folks! > i'd like to hear your comments on these: > > http://catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/html/plan9.html like matt said. > http://catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/html/ch20s03.html > > regards, > ++pac. I may not be the best person to do this but... * A Unix File is Just a Big Bag of Bytes Plan 9 keeps this model, but avoids *some* of the problems esr points out - I'll mention these is turn * Unix Support For GUIs Is Weak. Rio. Acme. It's not the "point and drool" of the macintosh, but is internally consistent, convenient once you get used to it, and *very well* integrated into the resr of the system, especially since many "interesting" services (tcp/ip, mail, ftp, cd writing, etc.) implement the file system interface * File Deletion Is Forever File Creation Is Forever :-) * Unix Assumes a Static File System I'm out of my depths here - anyone able to answer this? * The Design of Job Control was Badly Botched Rio. 'nuff said. * The Unix API Doesn't Use Exceptions http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&frame=right&th=7d07c12c4a19c45e&seekm=bf8367f8234d6dcb8847b6fd73d7f020%40plan9.escet.urjc.es or search for "exception" on comp.os.plan9 where this subject has been discused ad nauseum * ioctl(2) and fcntl(2) are an embarrassment That's why Plan9 doesn't have them! * The Unix Security Model May Be Too Primitive Plan 9 dosn't have a superuser account, but has anyone found the lack of ACLs limiting? * Unix has Too Many Different Kinds of Names And he gives plan9 credit for unifying them. (but he mentions per-user dynamically adjustable namespaces - I'm sure he was in error here, but *is* there a way to simultaneously adjust the namespace of *all* my processes? Perhaps with nemo's redirfs & badsrv underneath everything...) * File Systems Might Be Considered Harmful Then he goes on to say that "no major production operating system has yet followed EROS's lead". * Towards A Global Internet Address Space Yup, we've got that too. In fact the model esr proposes is... Plan 9! Did I leave anything out? --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 28 07:13:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 28 07:13:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 666 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Jun 2003 07:13:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 662 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2003 07:13:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Jun 2003 07:13:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D28019B0D; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6E63719AFD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:12:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <85e39b08c2610d853d7e85a323d2ab46@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] book chapters From: Geoff Collyer From: geoff@collyer.net In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 15:12:56 -0700 > [...] has anyone found the lack of ACLs limiting? I haven't, because groups serve nicely as ACLs, especially since they take effect as soon as you tell the file server "users", unlike Unix, where each process carries around a list of groups, so you essentially have to login again to join another group, and there are usually smallish limits (8 or 16) to the number of groups a process can be in at once. I wonder if the people who rave about ACLs are actually attached to some aspect of a particular implementation, much like the people who raved about Smalltalk or Lisp machines but were really just interested in the window systems, not the languages (especially in the case of Lisp). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 28 07:24:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 28 07:24:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 827 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Jun 2003 07:24:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 823 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2003 07:24:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Jun 2003 07:24:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DCC8019B0A; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:24:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from magnum.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0233E19A69 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:23:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by magnum.cooper.edu id AA01664 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu); Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:28:15 -0400 From: Joel Salomon To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] book chapters Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:28:15 -0400 (EDT) > > [...] has anyone found the lack of ACLs limiting? > > I haven't, because groups serve nicely as ACLs, especially since they > take effect as soon as you tell the file server "users" I'm sure this is in the manual somewhere, but is just any user allowed to create a nonce group for some particular file? --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 28 07:28:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 28 07:28:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 922 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Jun 2003 07:28:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 918 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2003 07:28:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Jun 2003 07:28:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7FA2519AFD; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:28:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 287C019A2A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:26:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9a0c181ad67dd51df06aee562f90167b@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] book chapters From: Geoff Collyer From: geoff@collyer.net In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 15:26:52 -0700 No, you do have to have access to the file server console. That is a limitation. However, I have access to my file server console, so groups work as ACLs for me, at least. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 28 07:37:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 28 07:37:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1050 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Jun 2003 07:37:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1046 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2003 07:37:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Jun 2003 07:37:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1B88619A6A; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:37:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from wilbur.25thandClement.com (wilbur.25thandclement.com [64.62.167.198]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0CA5E19A2A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:36:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wilbur.25thandClement.com (william@localhost [IPv6:::1]) by wilbur.25thandClement.com (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h5RMaNrv023664 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 15:36:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from william@localhost) by wilbur.25thandClement.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5RMaN7Z022569 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 15:36:23 -0700 (PDT) From: William Ahern To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] book chapters Message-ID: <20030627223623.GA31591@wilbur.25thandClement.com> References: <001601c33c91$249f4cd0$2a8be793@gli.cas.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 15:36:23 -0700 On Fri, Jun 27, 2003 at 06:08:13PM -0400, Joel Salomon wrote: > On Fri, 27 Jun 2003, pac wrote: > * Unix Assumes a Static File System > I'm out of my depths here - anyone able to answer this? Linux has this solution *wrong*. the DNOTIFY mechanism is accessed thru fcntl(), and DNOTIFY uses signals. ugh! I don't know if BSD _copied_ Linux. The free BSD's have kqueue(), which is an interface that smoothes over file descriptors, signals, process status and async-io context pointers. It includes a mechanism to be notified on all file events. DNOTIFY on Linux only notifies on directories (tho it will trigger a directory event when children are modified). However, Linux might get epoll(), which is supposed to be similar to Solaris' /dev/poll, but a tad more general. It looks similar to kqueue(), but not nearly as robust. (for better or worse) I'm working on a shell utility, `watch', which outputs file event notifications. The code is ugly, because I ran into a lot of caveats figuring out the semantics of kqueue vnode events. [http://www.25thandclement.com/~william/projects/watch.html] I guess one tie-in to Plan 9 is that none of the BSD's (free ones, at least) keep track of path names in their fs layer. Linux does, and in fact on Linux /dev/pid/[fd] is analagous to fd2path(), except Linux tracks rename()s. Ted Unangst, an OpenBSD developer, wrote me to say that he might hack OpenBSD to keep some path info. I talked to him about it because if I'm monitoring a large tree for events (say in a CMS), kqueue() forces me to open every last file, while in Linux I need only open every directory; the issue being descriptor table limits. - Bill From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 28 08:40:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 28 08:40:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2206 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Jun 2003 08:40:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2202 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2003 08:40:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Jun 2003 08:40:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0459319B1B; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 19:40:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-08.noos.net [212.198.2.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A0F719B0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 19:39:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 26976780 invoked by uid 0); 27 Jun 2003 23:39:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.210]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.77 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 27 Jun 2003 23:39:38 -0000 Message-ID: <007601c33d05$5ced6b20$d2944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <85e39b08c2610d853d7e85a323d2ab46@collyer.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] book chapters MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 01:39:33 +0200 ACLs -- they just had too much time on their hands, so why not build something complex? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 28 08:44:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 28 08:44:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2256 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Jun 2003 08:44:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2252 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2003 08:44:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Jun 2003 08:44:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8199919B1E; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 19:44:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-08.noos.net [212.198.2.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BC78F19A06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 19:43:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 26826883 invoked by uid 0); 27 Jun 2003 23:43:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.210]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.77 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 27 Jun 2003 23:43:30 -0000 Message-ID: <008d01c33d05$e6fbd360$d2944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] book chapters MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 01:43:25 +0200 ACLs? did anybody read the 10th Ed paper (iirc) about bitmask security system for unix? jim reeds & i forget -- so simple and so powerful. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 28 08:47:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 28 08:47:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2286 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Jun 2003 08:47:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2282 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2003 08:47:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Jun 2003 08:47:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3646E19B1F; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 19:47:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0DC6819A06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 19:46:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2320e60233649b3c84b93bea9051bad0@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] book chapters From: Geoff Collyer From: geoff@collyer.net In-Reply-To: <008d01c33d05$e6fbd360$d2944251@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-faxwiouimghptgknyhakjvbzmd" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 16:46:13 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-faxwiouimghptgknyhakjvbzmd Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit reeds & mcilroy, the ix system. described in cstr 163: This is really a collection of papers, and has been split into pieces: to get all of them, say send 163a 163b 163c 163d 163e 163f 163g 163h 163i from research/cstr. The IX Multilevel-Secure UNIX System Contents: 163a Cover, 1 page 163b Abstract, 1 page 163c General description, 19 pages 163d Detailed specification of kernel behavior, 32 pages 163e Examples of use, 11 pages 163f Multilevel terminal, 3 pages 163g Secure network proposal, 8 pages 163h Glossary, 2 pages 163i Manual pages, 50 pages --upas-faxwiouimghptgknyhakjvbzmd Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from collyer.net ([10.9.0.3]) by collyer.net; Fri Jun 27 16:44:20 PDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by collyer.net; Fri Jun 27 16:44:20 PDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4BF4119B18; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 19:44:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-08.noos.net [212.198.2.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BC78F19A06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 19:43:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 26826883 invoked by uid 0); 27 Jun 2003 23:43:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.210]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.77 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 27 Jun 2003 23:43:30 -0000 Message-ID: <008d01c33d05$e6fbd360$d2944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] book chapters MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 01:43:25 +0200 ACLs? did anybody read the 10th Ed paper (iirc) about bitmask security system for unix? jim reeds & i forget -- so simple and so powerful. --upas-faxwiouimghptgknyhakjvbzmd-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 28 09:54:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 28 09:54:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3983 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Jun 2003 09:54:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3979 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2003 09:54:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Jun 2003 09:54:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9764419B20; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 20:54:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A379A19A76 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 20:53:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <383b8fc83185e0e4ebe40ac37df096ad@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dennis Ritchie To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] book chapters In-Reply-To: <2320e60233649b3c84b93bea9051bad0@collyer.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 20:53:51 -0400 The sections of the Reeds and McIlroy paper are also accessible directly at http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/cstr.html They are in .ps.gz format; I'll distill into pdf if anyone wants. Dennis From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 28 10:04:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 28 10:04:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4208 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Jun 2003 10:04:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4204 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2003 10:04:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Jun 2003 10:04:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CCACC19B24; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 21:04:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 20C1E199EE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 21:03:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 3524 invoked by uid 991); 28 Jun 2003 01:03:38 -0000 Message-ID: <20030628010338.3523.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] book chapters In-reply-to: <85e39b08c2610d853d7e85a323d2ab46@collyer.net> References: <85e39b08c2610d853d7e85a323d2ab46@collyer.net> Comments: In-reply-to Geoff Collyer , geoff@collyer.net message dated "Fri, 27 Jun 2003 15:12:56 -0700." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 21:03:38 -0400 | I haven't, because groups serve nicely as ACLs, I disagree. ACLs are things that any user can set on any of their files. That's the opposite of predefined groups stored on the BOFH's auth server. Do you really want to define groups for all 50000! combinations of users on PSUVM? I'd rather just attach the access list to the file itself. | I wonder if the people who rave about ACLs are actually attached to | some aspect of a particular implementation, The one in Primos (and Multics, I guess) was certainly beautiful, but it's the actual effect that I'm attached to. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 28 11:11:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 28 11:11:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6448 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Jun 2003 11:11:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6444 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2003 11:11:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Jun 2003 11:11:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C21DA19B2A; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 22:11:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9B7DD19B0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 22:10:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05897 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 22:10:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5S2Am723171 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 22:10:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306280210.h5S2Am723171@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] book chapters In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 27 Jun 2003 21:03:38 EDT." <20030628010338.3523.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 22:10:48 -0400 > | I haven't, because groups serve nicely as ACLs, > > I disagree. ACLs are things that any user can set on any of their files. > That's the opposite of predefined groups stored on the BOFH's auth > server. I just want to point out that the ability to write user-level file servers allows one to easily implement ACL's at that level. It's not convenient for, e.g., access to a fossil or some similar large fileserver (think of the mess an ACL-enabled overlay would be), but it works for other things. > Do you really want to define groups for all 50000! combinations of users > on PSUVM? I'd rather just attach the access list to the file itself. There are 2^50000 - 1 such combinations (assuming one ignores the group with no one in it); a lot more than 50000!. Besides, I thought PSUVM was gone? I'm out of touch with what's happening in Happy Valley, I guess. > | I wonder if the people who rave about ACLs are actually attached to > | some aspect of a particular implementation, > > The one in Primos (and Multics, I guess) was certainly beautiful, > but it's the actual effect that I'm attached to. I think the major benefit of ACL systems is that most implementations don't require administrator intervention to set up or maintain them (some do). - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 28 11:28:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 28 11:28:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7057 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Jun 2003 11:28:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7053 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2003 11:28:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Jun 2003 11:28:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 047D019A6D; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 22:28:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BAF6F19B2D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 22:27:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07815 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 22:27:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5S2RD723287 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 22:27:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306280227.h5S2RD723287@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] book chapters In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 27 Jun 2003 22:10:48 EDT." <200306280210.h5S2Am723171@augusta.math.psu.edu> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 22:27:13 -0400 > There are 2^50000 - 1 such combinations (assuming one ignores the group > with no one in it); a lot more than 50000!. Watch which way you write your numbers, or more importantly when you actually hit the Post button (hopefully not while you're still editting); 50000! is obviously a lot more than 2^50000 - 1 (though the latter is the number of groups we're talking about). - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 28 18:16:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 28 18:16:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16894 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Jun 2003 18:16:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16890 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2003 18:16:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Jun 2003 18:16:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CB7B319A3E; Sat, 28 Jun 2003 05:16:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from infocom.km.ua (infocom.km.ua [195.46.36.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 82F1619A06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 28 Jun 2003 05:15:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kp.km.ua (root@kp.km.ua [217.196.174.2]) by infocom.km.ua (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/ic) with ESMTP id h5S9FOjU076209 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 28 Jun 2003 12:15:26 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Received: from localhost.localdomain (dialup13.kp.km.ua [217.196.174.28]) by kp.km.ua (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/kp-branch) with SMTP id h5S9FLB0077430 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 28 Jun 2003 12:15:23 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" From: "Andrey S. Kukhar" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <03062812093900.00512@localhost.localdomain> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] sound question Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 12:09:39 -0400 Hi, could you tell me what exactly USB audio cards do you use? How about new Creative Sound Blaster MP3+? Thank you. kyxap From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 29 01:17:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 29 01:17:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23298 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Jun 2003 01:17:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23294 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2003 01:17:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Jun 2003 01:17:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E342A19A04; Sat, 28 Jun 2003 12:17:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7D6FA19981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 28 Jun 2003 12:16:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sat Jun 28 12:12:52 EDT 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sound question From: Sape Mullender From: sape@plan9.bell-labs.com In-Reply-To: <03062812093900.00512@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 12:06:32 -0400 > could you tell me what exactly USB audio cards do you use? USB audio devices usually conform to the USB standard for audio. The Plan 9 driver can drive such devices. There are a few (usually high end) audio devices that deviate from the standard and require a vendor-specific driver. Audio devices that can be driven by WIndows without installing a driver from the manufacturer should be okay for Plan 9. I have tested the driver on Philips USB speakers, Edirol UA-3 Audio interface, Xitel AN1 and MD. Sape From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 29 01:38:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 29 01:38:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23566 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Jun 2003 01:38:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23560 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2003 01:38:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Jun 2003 01:38:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E1D1419A69; Sat, 28 Jun 2003 12:38:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B63C319A06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 28 Jun 2003 12:37:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5408794b92ffea7b8136eee1b147e18e@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sound question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 12:37:07 -0400 ... and I use a XITEL HiFi Link DG2. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 29 02:24:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 29 02:24:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24263 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Jun 2003 02:24:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24259 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2003 02:24:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Jun 2003 02:24:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0823819A70; Sat, 28 Jun 2003 13:24:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from tonylee9-5zaxon (unknown [220.113.166.202]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id D044F19A27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 28 Jun 2003 13:23:25 -0400 (EDT) From: webmaster To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <20030628172325.D044F19A27@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] -------|ÓÅ»ÝÐéÄâÖ÷»ú£¡|------- Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 13:23:25 -0400 (EDT) Ç×°®µÄÅóÓÑ£º ¡¡¡¡ÄúºÃ£¡ ¡¡¡¡ÕâÊÇÀ´×ÔÏÃÃÅÊб¦Áé¿Æ¼¼ÍøÂçÓÐÏÞ¹«Ë¾µÄÎʺ¸ÐлÄúÊÕ¿´Õâ·âÓʼþ¡£ÎÒÃÇÕæ³ÏµÄÏ£Íû ÄúÄܳÉΪÎÒÃÇÔÚ¹óµØÇøµÄÖØÒª»ï°é¡£ÎÒÃÇÊÇÒ»¼Ò²ÉÓÃÊÀ½ç¸ßм¼Êõ½á¾§£¬Ñо¿¡¢ÍƹãºÍ·¢Õ¹ м¼Êõ£¬ÖÂÁ¦ÓÚ»¥ÁªÍøÐÅÏ¢·þÎñ¡¢ÓòÃû×¢²á·þÎñºÍÐéÄâÖ÷»ú·þÎñµÄ¸ßм¼ÊõÆóÒµ¡£ÏêÇéÇëä¯ ÀÀ:http://www.host-china.com ¹«Ë¾×Ô2003ÄêÆðÈ«Á¦½ø¾ü¹ú¼Ê»¥ÁªÍø·þÎñÁìÓò£¬ÕûºÏÍƳöÁËÒÔϲúÆ·¡£ËùÓпռ䶼֧³Ö Êý¾Ý¿â£¨linux+PHP+Mysql;NT+asp+acess£©¡£Õ⽫»áÊÇÄú³¬ÖµµÄÑ¡Ôñ¡£ ¡¡¡¡1.30M¿Õ¼ä+30MÆóÒµÓÊ¾Ö + ËÍÒ»¹ú¼ÊÓòÃû £¬¹¦ÄÜÈ«Ã棬½öÊÛ198Ôª/Äê¡£ ¡¡¡¡2.120M¿Õ¼ä£«120MÆóÒµÓÊÏ䣫1¸ö¹ú¼ÊÓòÃû£¬¹¦ÄÜÈ«Ã棬½öÊÛ336Ôª/Äê¡£ 3.200M¿Õ¼ä£«50MÆóÒµÓÊÏ䣫1¸ö¹ú¼ÊÓòÃû£¬¹¦ÄÜÈ«Ã棬½öÊÛ450Ôª/Äê¡£ 4.300M¿Õ¼ä£«50MÆóÒµÓÊÏ䣫1¸ö¹ú¼ÊÓòÃû£¬¹¦ÄÜÈ«Ã棬½öÊÛ580Ôª/Äê¡£ ¡¡¡¡ ¡¡¡¡¾¡¹ÜÎÒÃǾ¡Á¦ÎªÄúÌṩ×îºÃµÄ·þÎñ¡££¬µ«²»Åųý³öÏÖʧÎó¡£Èç¹ûÊÇÕâÑù£¬ÎÒÃÇÄþÔ¸½ÓÊÜ Í˿Ҳ²»»áÒòΪÄÄÅÂÒ»µãµãµÄ²»ÂúÒâ¶øÈÃÄú²»¿ªÐÄ¡£ËùÒÔÎÒÃdzÐŵ£ºÖ÷»ú²»ÂúÒⰴʵ¼ÊÓà ¶îÍË¿î¡£Çë²»ÒªÖ±½Ó»Ø¸´,»Ø¸´Çë·¢:jinjin732@sohu.com ¡¡¡¡×££º¿ªÐÄ£¡Ë³Àû£¡ ¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡webmaster of http://www.host-china.com ÏÃÃÅÊб¦Áé¿Æ¼¼ÍøÂçÓÐÏÞ¹«Ë¾ http://www.host-china.com µç»°£º0592-5915491£¨ÈÈÏߣ© 0592-5652685¡¡ ´«Õ棺0592-5652687¡¡¡¡ ÁªÏµÈË£ºÀîÏÈÉú ½ðС½ã ¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡ --------------------------------------------------------------- ·ÐµãȺ·¢Óʼþ,À´×ÔÈí¼þ¹¤³Ìר¼ÒÍø(http://www.21cmm.com) ½øCMMÍøУ(http://www.21cmm.com)£¬³ÉÏîÄ¿¹ÜÀíר¼Ò From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 29 02:45:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 29 02:45:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24485 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Jun 2003 02:45:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24481 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2003 02:45:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Jun 2003 02:45:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C35BB19A71; Sat, 28 Jun 2003 13:45:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from web40406.mail.yahoo.com (web40406.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8BCD019A31 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 28 Jun 2003 13:44:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <20030628174448.30344.qmail@web40406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.210.205.126] by web40406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 28 Jun 2003 10:44:48 PDT From: "A. Baker" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] book chapters Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 10:44:48 -0700 (PDT) Please! and thank you. :-) The sections of the Reeds and McIlroy paper are also accessible directly at http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/cstr.html They are in .ps.gz format; I'll distill into pdf if anyone wants. Dennis ===== Boojum __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 29 11:56:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 29 11:56:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2196 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Jun 2003 11:56:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2192 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2003 11:56:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Jun 2003 11:56:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C6CDF199B6; Sat, 28 Jun 2003 22:56:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A1CB819992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 28 Jun 2003 22:55:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sat Jun 28 22:55:36 EDT 2003 Received: from 209.23.14.18 ([209.23.14.18]) by plan9; Sat Jun 28 22:55:33 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <155bfd8df906c25b73004eabd303fe68@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Problem with vmware 4.0 In-Reply-To: <200306262024.36027.n.paskov@gmx.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 23:14:06 -0400 I'm running Plan 9 under VMware 4.0 this very moment. Beyond that, I can't help you. VMware 4 does seem to have a bug in the CD drive simulation when you're using a real physical CD drive. Try disconnecting the CD-ROM at boot time or point it at a file instead of the real drive. (Linux has the same problem, so I think it is VMware that is buggy.) Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 29 13:39:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 29 13:39:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4811 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Jun 2003 13:39:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4807 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2003 13:39:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Jun 2003 13:39:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A923A19A08; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 00:39:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E6B11199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 00:38:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: Dennis Ritchie To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] book chapters In-Reply-To: <20030628174448.30344.qmail@web40406.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 00:38:47 -0400 Per Baker's request, the Reeds and McIlroy papers on the IX system collected in CSTR 163 are available in PDF at http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/cstr.html Dennis From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 30 01:27:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 30 01:27:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18381 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2003 01:27:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18377 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2003 01:27:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 01:27:42 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6C0DE199E3; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 12:27:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1678419999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 12:25:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <120f60a2d337683339b689336fa4292c@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] what should 'fileserver' be set to in fossil? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 12:25:45 -0400 On Fri Jun 27 15:08:29 EDT 2003, mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca wrote: > same thing but with the 'hpost' postscript preprocessor -- if it doesn't > find a machine name in .machinelist it assumes that the users are from > 'astro', which you guys have defined for all bell-labs machines. net effect > is that everybody here gets 'u/unknown.1' (rabbit ears). > I changed hpost to just use the machine name if it can't find the entry in .machinelist. This is what it should have been all along. > i'm not sure of a proper fix for this -- i changed 'astro' to 'unknown' and > defined the few plan9 users as unknown/username in .dict.. .machinelist is just a local aliasing mechanism. If you have a list of ucalgary people, you should probably add an entry that looks like: (.*\.)?ucalgary\.ca ucalgary.ca or (.*\.)?ucalgary\.ca ucalgary I would have suggested ucal but then you'ld clash with all those californians. If you pick one, we can add I'ld change us from astro to something else, but that would probably screw everyone that have modified the .dict files for themselves. Astro was short sighted of us, though it survived a company split and the domain name wouldn't have. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 30 01:36:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 30 01:36:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18470 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2003 01:36:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18466 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2003 01:36:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 01:36:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9EAE119A25; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 12:36:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A2C8A199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 12:35:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5TGZUeH012277 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 10:35:30 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5TGZUdp012273 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 10:35:30 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] what should 'fileserver' be set to in fossil? In-Reply-To: <120f60a2d337683339b689336fa4292c@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 10:35:30 -0600 (MDT) On Sun, 29 Jun 2003, David Presotto wrote: > I would have suggested ucal but then you'ld clash with all those > californians. If you pick one, we can add ucalgary.ca is fine, though nobody else but me posts to 9fans from here. chances are this will stay for a while :) what i'd like to have is a generalized way of adding faces to a main repository -- for example, i think we sent our LANL faces to nemo in spain, but i don't know whether they were added at all to the main plan9 distro... there are three faces for the lanl group at this address: http://www.acl.lanl.gov/plan9/who.html i like faces' idea, i'd like to see it expand :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 30 01:40:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 30 01:40:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18509 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2003 01:40:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18505 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2003 01:40:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 01:40:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4AB0E19A19; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 12:40:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 52B1419A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 12:39:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sdn-ap-023castocp0375.dialsprint.net ([65.178.105.121] helo=acm.org) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19WfDJ-0002I0-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 09:39:42 -0700 Message-ID: <3EFF1695.6070403@acm.org> From: "D. Brownlee" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; NetBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030618 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] focus follows mouse Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 09:40:53 -0700 Is that possible? When using sam or several rc windows it would be nice not to have to clik-to-focus. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 30 01:43:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 30 01:43:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18559 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2003 01:43:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18555 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2003 01:43:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 01:43:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D91FB19A31; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 12:43:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8766719A26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 12:42:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4a745589bccee417a5a9e2514369e422@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] what should 'fileserver' be set to in fossil? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 12:42:02 -0400 If anyone emails faces/names to me, I'll stick them in the distribution. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 30 01:55:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 30 01:55:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18671 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2003 01:55:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18667 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2003 01:55:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 01:55:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D3F9B19A32; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 12:55:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2F2F019999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 12:54:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5TGs6eH012315 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 10:54:06 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5TGs6ub012311 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 10:54:06 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] focus follows mouse In-Reply-To: <3EFF1695.6070403@acm.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 10:54:06 -0600 (MDT) acme has 'focus follows mouse' turned on by default. you may want to check the archives for Rob Pike's reasons not to have it in Rio... I myself used to complain until I got to play in an entirely Plan 9 environment for a few months. Then coming back to lunix I just modified 9wm to look more like rio and stuck with it... I rarely even miss virtual desktops anymore :) andrey On Sun, 29 Jun 2003, D. Brownlee wrote: > Is that possible? > When using sam or several rc windows > it would be nice not to have to clik-to-focus. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 30 01:58:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 30 01:58:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18704 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2003 01:58:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18700 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2003 01:58:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 01:58:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4ED3019A76; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 12:58:19 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 24644199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 12:56:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sdn-ap-023castocp0375.dialsprint.net ([65.178.105.121] helo=acm.org) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19WfTr-00057Y-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 09:56:47 -0700 Message-ID: <3EFF1A96.8010201@acm.org> From: "D. Brownlee" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; NetBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030618 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] 'find' Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 09:57:58 -0700 grep pattern `{du -a /} leads to something like "grep: virtual memory allocation failure." Sorry, but Plan 9 isn't running right now, so that's from memory. That used to work in 3rd. edition. I found a better 'find' in Russ' scripts tarball, but it is an interesting problem. I suspect that the message may be generated on behalf of 'grep'. I looked at the 'grep' source and the only potential problem (?) seen was a failure to close a file before search() returns to main(), if read() returns less than zero; however, the print() associated with that error isn't seen in grep's output before the vm failure occurs. I'll find out where the message comes from next time Plan 9 is up. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 30 02:01:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 30 02:01:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18740 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2003 02:01:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18736 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2003 02:01:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 02:01:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7BDC419A26; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:01:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D2B8199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:00:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Jun 29 13:00:52 EDT 2003 Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([68.39.141.22]) by plan9; Sun Jun 29 13:00:51 EDT 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'find' From: Sape Mullender In-Reply-To: <3EFF1A96.8010201@acm.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 12:59:58 -0400 > grep pattern `{du -a /} > > leads to something like "grep: virtual memory allocation failure." Because the argument list to grep gets impossibly long. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 30 02:03:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 30 02:03:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18748 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2003 02:03:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18744 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2003 02:03:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 02:03:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B31219999; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:03:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BD2FB19A53 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:02:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 692341 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 12:09:43 -0500 Message-ID: <7cb7f43db4b375a9ee3fd6731d4b2d8d@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] focus follows mouse From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 10:02:20 -0700 > acme has 'focus follows mouse' turned on by default. you may want to check > the archives for Rob Pike's reasons not to have it in Rio... everyone in the lab used the window system and was used to its UI. acme came later and was experimental; not only did it seem wrong to retrofit, i would have created an angry group of people had i done so. you can hack rio to do this, but you will have some hard questions to answer because its UI isn't designed to work this way. it's a tricky balance. when i'm marooned on linux the environment uses 'focus follows mouse' and i dislike it because the surrounding UI doesn't really work well with it - and it was designed to! you can always disable the acme feature with the obscurely named -b flag. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 30 02:25:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 30 02:25:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18956 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2003 02:25:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18952 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2003 02:25:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 02:25:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B653E19A77; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:25:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EF836199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:24:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sdn-ap-023castocp0375.dialsprint.net ([65.178.105.121] helo=acm.org) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19Wfum-0004h5-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 10:24:37 -0700 Message-ID: <3EFF211C.10403@acm.org> From: "D. Brownlee" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; NetBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030618 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] focus follows mouse References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 10:25:48 -0700 andrey mirtchovski wrote: > acme has 'focus follows mouse' turned on by default. you may want to check > the archives for Rob Pike's reasons not to have it in Rio... > > I myself used to complain until I got to play in an entirely Plan 9 > environment for a few months. Then coming back to lunix I just modified 9wm > to look more like rio and stuck with it... I rarely even miss virtual > desktops anymore :) 9wm may be a solution; I'll look into it. It's mostly a problem with old habits. Once I get a modem working with Plan 9, I'll me marooned in *BSD/"lunix' less often. I've looked at some docs from usb.org and it looks like getting a usb modem to work means a new usb class driver -- communications class. I've yet to try U9fs to see whether it will serve the modem. Time shortage ... the least expensive solution may be an old-fashioned modem. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 30 02:41:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 30 02:41:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19092 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2003 02:41:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19088 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2003 02:41:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 02:41:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CDF6A19A82; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:41:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-01.noos.net [212.198.2.70]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3BFF119A7F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:40:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 30121564 invoked by uid 0); 29 Jun 2003 17:39:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.210]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.70 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 29 Jun 2003 17:39:57 -0000 Message-ID: <004501c33e65$72f6c5e0$d2944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <7cb7f43db4b375a9ee3fd6731d4b2d8d@mightycheese.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] focus follows mouse MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 19:39:52 +0200 i trained myself to cope with this nonsense, which was a really bad thing to learn. should you bump, nudge or otherwise move the mouse your characters wind up in /dev/null or worse still, in a window that _didn't really like them_ -- especially if it was a window with something running as root. with click to type you _know_ exactly where the chars are going to go. acme is a different model, so i can see the reasoning why it behaves like it does. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 30 02:42:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 30 02:42:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19101 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2003 02:42:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19097 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2003 02:42:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 02:42:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 48EB019A80; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:42:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B97AA19A86 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:41:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5THfheH012457 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 11:41:43 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5THfh5n012453 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 11:41:43 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] focus follows mouse In-Reply-To: <3EFF211C.10403@acm.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 11:41:43 -0600 (MDT) On Sun, 29 Jun 2003, D. Brownlee wrote: > 9wm may be a solution; I'll look into it. there are many offshoots of 9wm, some adding virtual desktops, color schemes, whatnot. however since 9wm was written to emulate 8.5 everything that came out of 9wm looks like 8.5. the one that I hacked has the same color scheme (black/white) but i've modified the mouse pointer, added 'swipe to create a new window', changed the behaviour of the Move (still no 'grab the border of the window and resize' though), all made to look and behave like rio... I don't use 9term. here's the url: http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~mirtchov/ports/9wm-1.2.tar.gz andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 30 02:56:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 30 02:56:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19237 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2003 02:56:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19232 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2003 02:56:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 02:56:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8AB7E19A84; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:56:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from edoras.nas.com (edoras.nas.com [206.63.100.8]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2F2BD199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:55:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from max2-d84.nas.com (max2-d84.nas.com [206.63.102.213]) by edoras.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AB65EB0EF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 10:55:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [9fans] book chapters From: Jack Johnson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: <85e39b08c2610d853d7e85a323d2ab46@collyer.net> References: <85e39b08c2610d853d7e85a323d2ab46@collyer.net> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Message-Id: <1056909326.2840.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2 (1.2.2-5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 29 Jun 2003 10:55:26 -0700 On Fri, 2003-06-27 at 15:12, geoff@collyer.net wrote: > I wonder if the people who rave about ACLs are actually attached to > some aspect of a particular implementation I'm not necessarily attached to ACLs, but the "everybody but Bob" case is a standard scenario not easily handled by groups. For instance, you have a set of people whose files you want readable by their supervisors, but not by their peers. If you have a handy group solution for this, I'm all for enlightenment. -Jack From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 30 03:05:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 30 03:05:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19419 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2003 03:05:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19415 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2003 03:05:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 03:05:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 172A7199B7; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 14:05:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2C38F19A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 14:04:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 14:04:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5TI49702960 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 14:04:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306291804.h5TI49702960@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] focus follows mouse In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 29 Jun 2003 10:25:48 PDT." <3EFF211C.10403@acm.org> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 14:04:09 -0400 > I've yet to try U9fs to see whether it will serve the modem. Almost certainly it won't. While you might be able to get u9fs to show you the device file on the Unix side, the communications model is different, and you won't have access to the ioctl's and so forth to set the modem's parameters. Going the other way around, plan 9 won't be able to see the ctl and status files it expects. You might be able to get lucky and set the parameters on both sides statically, but obviously that's an imperfect solution. Your best bet at this point would probably just be to buy a regular modem and hook it up to a spare RS-232 port. Of course, I wouldn't mind seeing support for a few more USB devices, so if you're interested in doing the work to get the modem class supported, then by all means, have at it. :-) - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 30 03:12:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 30 03:12:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19489 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2003 03:12:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19485 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2003 03:12:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 03:12:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6C2F119A88; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 14:12:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from edoras.nas.com (edoras.nas.com [206.63.100.8]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DD11219A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 14:11:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from max2-d84.nas.com (max2-d84.nas.com [206.63.102.213]) by edoras.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E76CEB83E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 11:11:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [9fans] 'find' From: Jack Johnson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: <3EFF1A96.8010201@acm.org> References: <3EFF1A96.8010201@acm.org> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Message-Id: <1056910273.2840.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2 (1.2.2-5) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 29 Jun 2003 11:11:13 -0700 On Sun, 2003-06-29 at 09:57, D. Brownlee wrote: > grep pattern `{du -a /} This is a general scripting question. I've been berated for my admittedly poor command usage, namely for excessive usage of the "useless cat" and similar techniques: cat foo | grep pattern namely because when I change my mind I've always found it easier to change the end of a line rather than some arbitrary section of the middle (whether using some other shell's history or sweeping with the mouse). Is anyone else prone to this problem, or do you have some other technique that satisfies your own personal laziness or ineptitude? -Jack From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 30 03:43:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 30 03:43:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20150 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2003 03:43:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20146 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2003 03:43:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 03:43:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A453419A8A; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 14:43:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F382E199BC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 14:42:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14358 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 14:42:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5TIgE703166 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 14:42:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306291842.h5TIgE703166@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'find' In-Reply-To: Your message of "29 Jun 2003 11:11:13 PDT." <1056910273.2840.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 14:42:14 -0400 > On Sun, 2003-06-29 at 09:57, D. Brownlee wrote: > > grep pattern `{du -a /} > > This is a general scripting question. > > I've been berated for my admittedly poor command usage, namely for > excessive usage of the "useless cat" and similar techniques: > > cat foo | grep pattern There are times when the ``useless cat'' is actually quite useful. For instance, when one wants to pipe more than one file to tr and the files are passed as command line arguments. Doing the logic to figure out whether you need cat or not would be more expensive than just using cat in all cases. > namely because when I change my mind I've always found it easier to > change the end of a line rather than some arbitrary section of the > middle (whether using some other shell's history or sweeping with the > mouse). I do this on the command line all the time. In scripts, not so frequently. > Is anyone else prone to this problem, or do you have some other > technique that satisfies your own personal laziness or ineptitude? Usually, I just give up and go get a cup of coffee or something instead. But seriously, complaints about the useless cat are often overblown, and not using cat often makes the resulting script really ugly. This isn't 1985; I'll pick a cleaner more maintainable script over saving a process. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 30 04:02:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 30 04:02:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20533 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2003 04:02:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20529 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2003 04:02:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 04:02:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 76A9719A8D; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 15:02:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D498B19A8F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 15:01:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16506; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 15:01:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5TJ1G703256; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 15:01:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306291901.h5TJ1G703256@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: 9trouble@plan9.bell-labs.com From: Dan Cross Subject: [9fans] Patch to wavelan driver, specify heys in hex. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 15:01:16 -0400 So my sysadmins at work set up a wireless lan, but made the WEP key a random string of hex digits that doesn't easily convert into a UTF sequence I can put in a file. So I made a small change to the wavelan driver to recognize keys that start with ``0x'' as hex strings and convert them to a binary encoding as appropriate. It's not perfect, as I'm not checking for decoding errors, nor are non-hex heys that start with ``0x'' handled, but I wanted to send it out for others who might be faced with a similar setup. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 30 04:06:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 30 04:06:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20581 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2003 04:06:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20577 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2003 04:06:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 04:06:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 54B0419A95; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 15:06:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3CE6B19A8F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 15:05:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16929; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 15:05:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5TJ50703280; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 15:05:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306291905.h5TJ50703280@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: 9trouble@plan9.bell-labs.com Subject: Re: [9fans] Patch to wavelan driver, specify heys in hex. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 29 Jun 2003 15:01:16 EDT." <200306291901.h5TJ1G703256@augusta.math.psu.edu> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 15:05:00 -0400 Naturally, it would help if I included the patch.... - Dan C. *** /n/sources/plan9/sys/src/9/port/lib.h Thu Feb 28 16:19:35 2002 --- lib.h Sun Jun 29 14:08:46 2003 *************** *** 99,104 **** --- 99,105 ---- extern char end[]; extern int getfields(char*, char**, int, int, char*); extern int tokenize(char*, char**, int); + extern int dec16(uchar*, int, char*, int); extern int dec64(uchar*, int, char*, int); /* *** /n/sources/plan9/sys/src/9/pc/wavelan.c Sun Jun 22 12:33:01 2003 --- wavelan.c Sat Jun 28 19:30:57 2003 *************** *** 1036,1046 **** if((i = atoi(cb->f[0]+3)) >= 1 && i <= WNKeys){ ctlr->txkey = i-1; key = &ctlr->keys.keys[ctlr->txkey]; - key->len = strlen(cb->f[1]); - if(key->len > WKeyLen) - key->len = WKeyLen; memset(key->dat, 0, sizeof(key->dat)); ! memmove(key->dat, cb->f[1], key->len); } else r = -1; --- 1036,1051 ---- if((i = atoi(cb->f[0]+3)) >= 1 && i <= WNKeys){ ctlr->txkey = i-1; key = &ctlr->keys.keys[ctlr->txkey]; memset(key->dat, 0, sizeof(key->dat)); ! p = cb->f[1]; ! if(strncmp(p, "0x", 2) == 0) ! key->len = dec16(key->dat, WKeyLen, p + 2, strlen(p) - 2); ! else { ! key->len = strlen(p); ! if(key->len > WKeyLen) ! key->len = WKeyLen; ! memmove(key->dat, p, key->len); ! } } else r = -1; From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 30 05:25:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 30 05:25:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21722 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2003 05:25:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21718 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2003 05:25:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 05:25:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9B0BE19A98; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 16:25:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail1.panix.com (mail1.panix.com [166.84.1.72]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CF20819A8F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 16:24:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from panix1.panix.com (panix1.panix.com [166.84.1.1]) by mail1.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F153548731 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 16:24:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from markp@localhost) by panix1.panix.com (8.11.6p2/8.8.8/PanixN1.1) id h5TKOXE13767 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 16:24:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Message-Id: <200306292024.h5TKOXE13767@panix1.panix.com> X-Mailer: mailx (AT&T/BSD) 9.8 2001-04-01 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] focus follows mouse Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 16:24:33 -0400 (EDT) | I've yet to try U9fs to see whether it will serve the modem. I get a roughly equivalent effect by using sshnet to import the network from a linux or netbsd machine with a modem on it. I haven't tried anything like 9fs over it but it works nicely for reading mail and the like. ---mp From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 30 12:14:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 30 12:14:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2343 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2003 12:14:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2339 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2003 12:14:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 12:14:36 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 663A219A8F; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 23:14:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 204D5199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 23:13:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] what should 'fileserver' be set to in fossil? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 23:13:16 -0400 I copied the faces into ours. I noticed we've drifted from the .dict on sources so I won't get around to merging in all the changes till tomorrow. Thanks for the faces. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 30 16:48:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 30 16:48:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15594 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2003 16:48:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15585 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2003 16:48:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 16:48:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1EA5C19A99; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 03:48:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 78772199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 03:47:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4b57d8074847813224685a0ca4c55731@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'find' From: Fco.J.Ballesteros From: nemo@plan9.escet.urjc.es In-Reply-To: <3EFF1A96.8010201@acm.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:47:23 +0200 > grep pattern `{du -a /} > > leads to something like "grep: virtual memory allocation failure." For that case you can use walk / 'grep pattern $f' PS: walk is a script sent before in the list. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 30 16:56:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 30 16:56:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16035 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2003 16:56:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16029 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2003 16:56:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 16:56:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 81D6119A9A; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 03:56:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-10.noos.net [212.198.2.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E39B6199BC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 03:55:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 89145695 invoked by uid 0); 30 Jun 2003 07:55:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.66.148.210]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.81 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 30 Jun 2003 07:55:17 -0000 Message-ID: <003501c33edc$ee3fed40$d2944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <4b57d8074847813224685a0ca4c55731@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Subject: Re: [9fans] 'find' MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:55:07 +0200 find was always a horrible thing; the syntax was dreadful and it was around in the the days when you didn't have the cpu/disk speed to use it except in very limited cases or root stuff run out of cron [being very careful]. on lunix i'll do a "find / ..." 'cos it won't take that long and there are so many damn files that cd and ls just won't cut it. i'm glad it's gone. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 30 20:03:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 30 20:03:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22694 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2003 20:03:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22690 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2003 20:03:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 20:03:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CD78419A9B; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 07:03:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from larch (unknown [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4DFEC199BC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 07:02:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6d4520144abb8c805ef4d14c3b919320@snellwilcox.com> From: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] bsearch ? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 12:02:02 +0100 Hi, bsearch(2) is not in libc. I am sure it will not be for a good reason, but why? qsort is there so why not its friend? -Steve From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 30 20:18:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 30 20:18:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23069 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2003 20:18:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23065 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2003 20:18:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 20:18:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E7361199D5; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 07:18:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B6F49199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 07:17:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 6404 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2003 11:17:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO proweb.co.uk) (192.168.1.100) by juice.thebigchoice.com with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 11:17:32 -0000 Message-ID: <3F001C4B.7000108@proweb.co.uk> From: matt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] book chapters References: <85e39b08c2610d853d7e85a323d2ab46@collyer.net> <1056909326.2840.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> In-Reply-To: <1056909326.2840.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 12:17:31 +0100 > > >For instance, you have a set of people whose files you want readable by >their supervisors, but not by their peers. > >If you have a handy group solution for this, I'm all for enlightenment. > >-Jack > maybe I'm missing something -rw-rw---- 1 worker_5 bosses 851968 Jun 3 17:11 daily.toil From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 30 22:44:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 30 22:44:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26183 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2003 22:44:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26179 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2003 22:44:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 22:44:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AA2BB19A9E; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:44:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B4B219980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:43:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h5UDhd58020164 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 07:43:39 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h5UDhdtg000718 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 07:43:39 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] book chapters In-Reply-To: <3F001C4B.7000108@proweb.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 07:43:38 -0600 (MDT) On Mon, 30 Jun 2003, matt wrote: > > > > > >For instance, you have a set of people whose files you want readable by > >their supervisors, but not by their peers. > > > >If you have a handy group solution for this, I'm all for enlightenment. > > > >-Jack > > > maybe I'm missing something > -rw-rw---- 1 worker_5 bosses 851968 Jun 3 17:11 daily.toil From my point of view this is not the same. Jack wants "anybody but my boss" worker_5 is "the 5 guys who are my coworkers today" in the .com era you would have had to grow this group daily and the names all change. In the .bom area you have to shrink it daily and the names all change. Either way, the set of people "anybody but my boss" is not the same as the set of "these guys who may change names or cardinality on a daily basis" worker_5 is a ton more work to keep set up correctly. I used ACLs on Data General AOS and AOS/VS in 1981, and I have to say I really got to like them. It's a very old idea but that doesn't mean a bad idea. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 30 22:58:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 30 22:58:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26438 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2003 22:58:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26434 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2003 22:58:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 22:58:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E8AA4199E8; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:58:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9B39C199BC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:57:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25871 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:57:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5UDvK707520 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:57:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306301357.h5UDvK707520@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bsearch ? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 30 Jun 2003 12:02:02 BST." <6d4520144abb8c805ef4d14c3b919320@snellwilcox.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:57:20 -0400 > bsearch(2) is not in libc. > > I am sure it will not be for a good reason, but why? > qsort is there so why not its friend? Probably because it's not used that much. Regardless, I once wondered this myself and wrote a version. Since binary search is for some inexplicable reason one of those things that seems is impossibly hard to get right, I'll paste it below; it probably would be good to stick it in libc. - Dan C. void * bsearch(void *key, void *base, long nel, long width, int (*cmp)(void *, void *)) { char *bp; long m, l, r; int c; for (bp = base, l = 0, r = nel - 1; l <= r; ) { m = (l + r) / 2; c = cmp(key, bp + m * width); if (c == 0) return(bp + m * width); else if (c < 0) r = m - 1; else l = m + 1; } return(nil); } From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 30 23:03:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 30 23:03:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26534 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2003 23:03:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26530 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2003 23:03:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 23:03:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4295319AA5; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:03:17 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 5CF8D19A9C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:02:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 33634 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2003 14:02:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO proweb.co.uk) (192.168.1.100) by juice.thebigchoice.com with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 14:02:08 -0000 Message-ID: <3F0042DD.9080300@proweb.co.uk> From: matt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] book chapters References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:02:05 +0100 > > >worker_5 is "the 5 guys who are my coworkers today" > I meant worker_5 as one user but my experience is minimal, I was just answering the question From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 30 23:05:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 30 23:05:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26614 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2003 23:05:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26610 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2003 23:05:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 23:05:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 226EC19AAA; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:05:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF949199BC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:04:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <73b6c42894bc770bc171ccc36e6bfe6a@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'find' From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:07:59 +0100 > > grep pattern `{du -a /} > > > > leads to something like "grep: virtual memory allocation failure." > > Because the argument list to grep gets impossibly long. there's a little version of xargs that i tend to use in these cases, that i've attached, despite having posted it before as it hadn't been updated for 4e and changes to the libraries mean that it can be smaller than before. e.g. du -a / | sed 's/^[^ ]*[ ]//' | xargs grep pattern (note that awk '{print $1}' won't necessarily work instead of the above sed since filenames can contain spaces). #include #include #include #define NUMARGS 470 #define MAXSIZE 20000 void run(char **cmd) { char buf[256]; int npid, pid; pid = fork(); if (pid == -1) { perror("couldn't fork"); exits("no forkage"); } if (pid == 0) { if (cmd[0][0] != '/' && strncmp(cmd[0], "./", 2)) { snprint(buf, sizeof(buf), "/bin/%s", cmd[0]); exec(buf, cmd); } else { exec(cmd[0], cmd); } perror(cmd[0]); exits("no exec"); } while ((npid = waitpid()) != pid && npid != -1) ; } void main(int argc, char **argv) { char **cmd; int i, n, m, size, eof; Biobuf stdin; if (argc < 2) { fprint(2, "Usage: xargs cmd [args...]\n"); exits("usage"); } if (Binit(&stdin, 0, OREAD) == -1) { fprint(2, "couldn't init stdin\n"); exits("error"); } cmd = malloc((argc - 1 + NUMARGS + 1) * sizeof(char *)); n = 0; for (i = 1; i < argc; i++) cmd[n++] = argv[i]; for (;;) { eof = 0; size = 0; for (m = 0; m < NUMARGS && size < MAXSIZE; m++) { if ((cmd[n + m] = Brdstr(&stdin, '\n', 1)) == 0) { eof = 1; break; } size += Blinelen(&stdin); } cmd[n + m] = 0; if (m > 0) run(cmd); for (i = 0; i < m; i++) free(cmd[n+i]); if (eof) break; } } From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 30 23:14:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 30 23:14:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27202 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2003 23:14:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27198 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2003 23:14:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 23:14:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8A05F19AAD; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:14:18 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3176019A9C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:13:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 35545 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2003 14:13:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO proweb.co.uk) (192.168.1.100) by juice.thebigchoice.com with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 14:13:43 -0000 Message-ID: <3F004596.2030407@proweb.co.uk> From: matt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] dennis quote? References: <200306191950.h5JJol706204@augusta.math.psu.edu> <020001c3369c$eaa0a320$e3944251@insultant.net> In-Reply-To: <020001c3369c$eaa0a320$e3944251@insultant.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:13:42 +0100 boyd, rounin wrote: >what did dennis say once? > > unix retarded o/s development by 10 years > > linux retarded o/s development by 20 years > although said does anyone have a decent link, I'm /. trolling and could use the ammunition 8) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 30 23:15:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 30 23:15:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27211 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2003 23:15:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27207 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2003 23:15:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 23:15:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 456C719AAE; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:15:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from hoemail1.firewall.lucent.com (hoemail1.lucent.com [192.11.226.161]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C6D99199BC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:14:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nj9620exch001p.wins.lucent.com (h135-222-4-21.lucent.com [135.222.4.21]) by hoemail1.firewall.lucent.com (Switch-2.2.0/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id h5UEEfO05089 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:14:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: by nj9620exch001p.mh.lucent.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <2ZQZZBQ2>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:14:41 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Trickey, Howard W (Howard)" To: "'9fans@cse.psu.edu'" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: RE: [9fans] bsearch ? MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:15:43 -0400 > bsearch(2) is not in libc. > > I am sure it will not be for a good reason, but why? > qsort is there so why not its friend? bsearch was not in the standard C library in our research Unix; it must have been added to the standard by someone outside the Labs. So since we weren't using it, noone felt the need to put it into the Plan 9 libc. When I did APE, I needed to do a bsearch, so there is one in /sys/src/ape/lib/ap/gen/bsearch.c, pretty much isomorphic to the one just posted by Dan Cross. - Howard From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 30 23:19:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 30 23:19:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27300 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2003 23:19:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27296 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2003 23:19:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 23:19:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B136C19AB0; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:19:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0A8DF199BC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:18:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 15164 invoked by uid 991); 30 Jun 2003 14:18:57 -0000 Message-ID: <20030630141857.15163.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'find' In-reply-to: <73b6c42894bc770bc171ccc36e6bfe6a@vitanuova.com> References: <73b6c42894bc770bc171ccc36e6bfe6a@vitanuova.com> Comments: In-reply-to rog@vitanuova.com message dated "Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:07:59 +0100." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:18:57 -0400 | (note that awk '{print $1}' won't necessarily work instead of | the above sed since filenames can contain spaces). Apparently awk needs a way to split on quoted tokens, not just whitespace, now. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 30 23:33:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 30 23:33:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27607 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2003 23:33:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27602 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2003 23:33:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 23:33:37 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 446B319AB1; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:33:25 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5C506199BC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:32:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00540 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5UEWE707794 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306301432.h5UEWE707794@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'find' In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 29 Jun 2003 09:57:58 PDT." <3EFF1A96.8010201@acm.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----- =_aaaaaaaaaa0" Content-ID: <7789.1056983527.0@augusta.math.psu.edu> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:32:14 -0400 ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <7789.1056983527.1@augusta.math.psu.edu> > grep pattern `{du -a /} Hmm, this is exactly what I wrote walk and sor for; check the archives if you're interested. Actually, I've updated them for 4th Edition, so I'll include them here (I have been meaning to add something that ignores duplicates in walk, though). The archives still have a nice cookbook for how to use them. - Dan C. ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <7789.1056983527.2@augusta.math.psu.edu> #!/bin/rc rfork e fn runtests { file=$1; shift while (! ~ $#* 0 && ! eval $1 ''''^$file^'''') shift if (! ~ $#* 0) echo $file } while (file = `{read}) { runtests $file $* } ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <7789.1056983527.3@augusta.math.psu.edu> /* * Walk a directory tree, in the style of du(1), * but with some additional flourishes. * * Dan Cross */ #include #include static int mkdepth(int); static char *mkname(char *, int *, char *, char *); static void walk(char *, int, int); static void walkname(char *, int, int); char *fmt; void main(int argc, char *argv[]) { char *dir; int depth; Dir *d; dir = "."; fmt = "%s\n"; depth = -1; ARGBEGIN { case 'd': depth = atoi(ARGF()); break; case 'q': quotefmtinstall(); doquote = needsrcquote; fmt = "%q\n"; break; }ARGEND if (argc == 0) walkname(".", depth, 1); else { for (dir = *argv; dir; dir = *++argv) { if ((d = dirstat(dir)) == nil) { fprint(2, "dirstat %s: %r\n", dir); continue; } walkname(dir, depth, d->mode & DMDIR); free(d); } } exits(0); } static void walkname(char *dirname, int depth, int isdir) { int fd; if (strcmp(dirname, ".") != 0 && strcmp(dirname, "..") != 0) print(fmt, dirname); if (isdir) { fd = open(dirname, OREAD); if (fd < 0) { fprint(2, "open %s: %r\n", dirname); return; } walk(dirname, fd, depth); close(fd); } } static char * mkname(char *name, int *l, char *basename, char *filename) { char *nname; int t; t = strlen(basename) + 1 + strlen(filename) + 1; if (*l == 0 || name == nil) { *l = t; name = malloc(t); if (name == nil) sysfatal("malloc %d: %r\n", l); } else if (*l < t) { nname = realloc(name, t); if (nname == nil) { free(name); sysfatal("malloc %d: %r\n", l); } *l = t; name = nname; } snprint(name, t, "%s/%s", basename, filename); cleanname(name); return(name); } static int mkdepth(int depth) { return((depth == -1) ? depth : depth - 1); } static void walk(char *dirname, int fd, int depth) { Dir *dir, *dp; char *name, *nname; int i, l, n, t; if (depth == 0) return; l = 0; name = nil; n = dirreadall(fd, &dir); for (dp = dir, i = 0; i < n; dp++, i++) { if (strcmp(dp->name, ".") == 0 || strcmp(dp->name, "..") == 0) continue; name = mkname(name, &l, dirname, dp->name); walkname(name, mkdepth(depth), dp->mode & DMDIR); } free(dir); if (name != nil) free(name); } ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa0-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 30 23:47:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 30 23:47:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27828 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Jun 2003 23:47:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27824 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2003 23:47:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 23:47:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DA3DF19AB3; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:47:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3A378199BC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:46:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'find' From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <20030630141857.15163.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:50:04 +0100 > Apparently awk needs a way to split on quoted tokens, not just whitespace, > now. and i guess awk printf should be given a %q option and maybe echo should have a -q option too and du should print its output quoted and pwd should too and maybe cp should have an option to convert spaces when copying from a filesystem that can have spaces (e.g. ftpfs) to a filesystem that doesn't (e.g. the plan 9 fileserver) and other things too... i'm sure.